Waupaca City Council 9.1.26

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[0:04] All right, welcome everybody to our regular scheduled city council meeting.
[0:10] Tonight is Tuesday, September 1st, 2026 at 6 PM. And I'll call this meeting to
[0:15] order and we'll begin always as we always do with the Pledge of Allegiance.
[0:21] I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
[0:27] republic for it stands one nation
[0:33] and justice for all.
[0:44] » Okay, we'll have uh Barb, our clerk, read our open meeting statement for us.
[0:50] This meeting and all meetings of the com common council are open to the public.
[0:54] Proper notice has been posted and given to the media in accordance with
[0:58] Wisconsin state statutes so the citizens may be aware of the time, place, and
[1:02] agenda of this meeting. >> And would you take role of our older
[1:09] persons that are here tonight? >> Sure.
[1:11] » Mayor Smith >> here.
[1:12] » Colin Dystra >> here.
[1:14] » Paul Hagen >> here.
[1:16] » Eric Halverson >> here.
[1:17] » Dmitri Martin >> here. Paul Mayo
[1:19] » here. >> Cory Nagel
[1:21] » here. >> Eric Olsen
[1:22] » here. >> Dave Peterson
[1:24] » here. >> Scott Bchadsky
[1:26] » here. >> Henry Veliker.
[1:28] » Nine present. We have a quorum. >> And Barb, please start the introduction
[1:34] of the departments, please. >> Barb Noak, city clerk.
[1:38] Laura Colbert, city administrator. >> Eric Bailey, library director. Greg
[1:43] Roman, finance director. >> Justin Barren, director of public works.
[1:48] Leslie Byersdorf, interim of the park and rec department.
[1:52] » Pete Crager, chief of police. >> Thanks. And of course, Josh is in the
[1:57] back room uh handling the IT for tonight.
[2:02] Uh next up or so, our first item on our agenda is the uh consent agenda. Uh this
[2:07] is where we take those few items that are on the consent agenda with one
[2:12] motion unless you see something that you would like move to the regular agenda
[2:16] where you would vote on that individually.
[2:20] Uh hearing none uh we would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda as
[2:26] printed. >> Motion to approve. Second
[2:29] » motion by Olson, second by Distra that we approve the consent agenda as
[2:33] printed. discussion. All in favor signify by saying I.
[2:39] » I. >> Against say no. Motion carried. Regular
[2:43] agenda. Uh no additions or
[2:48] uh changes to the regular agenda that we have. Uh so again, we'd be just looking
[2:53] for a motion to approve. >> Move to approve as
[2:58] » motion by Peterson. Uh second by Olsen that we approve the
[3:03] regular agenda as printed. All in favor signify by saying I.
[3:09] » I. >> Against say no. Motion carried.
[3:16] Uh non-aggenda items. Uh announcements and correspondence. This is uh first up
[3:22] is public input. Uh if there's anybody in the audience uh
[3:26] staff or council members that would like to speak to us on a n Agenda item.
[3:32] Please give please give your name and address for the record. Limit your time
[3:35] to three minutes or less. Any public input?
[3:42] All right. Uh let's move on then to uh new business.
[3:47] Uh this is consideration of street closures
[3:51] for the Halloween on main event which is going to be held Friday, October 30th,
[3:56] 2026. And Leslie gets her first item here.
[4:04] Good evening. We are well on the way of all of the um
[4:10] logistics for this year's Halloween on Maine. Um which will be that October
[4:16] 30th. Um it is going to be that Friday night. And we are requesting a street
[4:22] closure that was similar to last year for 2025.
[4:27] Um we've adjusted the touch truck activities to move through the entire
[4:33] main street. Um and then we are asking that um Main Street and Water Street are
[4:42] closed up from the intersection of Elm and Division all the way down
[4:48] » [clears throat] >> um to that um Badger Street. Uh the one
[4:54] thing that's not in the packet is that we will be having two crossing guards on
[4:59] Maine and Badger there so people can safely cross the street from the um
[5:07] trunk or treat at Trinity Lutheran. Um and then anyone that is parking over in
[5:13] the Trinity parking lot um would be able to safely cross over to Main Street.
[5:23] Um, also we are requesting that on Granite
[5:27] Street that that intersection um with W Washington Street is closed and then
[5:33] that Elm Street, Division Street, and the Mil Street intersection will remain
[5:37] open for um traffic to um be able to move through and around
[5:45] if necessary.
[5:50] Okay. So, the [clears throat] request is uh
[5:54] for the street closures and Leslie, thank you for the additional
[5:57] information, but uh we're looking for um a motion to approve uh those street
[6:05] closures that you can see on page 24 of your packet
[6:09] uh for the Halloween on Maine, which is going to be held on October 30th. Do we
[6:14] have a motion? >> So, moved second. Hagen second by
[6:18] » second >> Dystra
[6:20] » that we approve of the uh street closures for the Halloween on Maine. Any
[6:25] discussion? >> All in favor signify by saying I.
[6:30] » I. >> Against say no.
[6:39] Uh next is uh license report number 1768.
[6:44] Uh, this is an operator's license. If you look on page 25 of your packet,
[6:48] you'll see that there's one individual on there that is applying for a
[6:53] bartender's license. We just need a motion to approve that.
[6:59] » Motion to approve. >> Motion by Olsen, second by Peterson that
[7:04] we approve license report number 1768. Any discussion?
[7:11] All in favor signify by saying I. >> I.
[7:15] » Against say no. Motion carried. Uh [clears throat] communications
[7:20] recommendations of the mayor. Don't forget uh when we're done uh with this
[7:25] meeting. We do have another meeting tonight. It's a committee of the whole
[7:28] meeting. Committee of the whole meetings of course are meetings that
[7:32] areformational purposes only. We don't take any action
[7:36] at those. But we will be collecting information that has to do with um
[7:43] uh the TIDS tonight. Uh we'll have a presentation by our finance director uh
[7:49] Greg uh on the TIDS and how well they're doing.
[7:55] Anything else? Anybody else have anything else for the meeting?
[8:00] Have I surpassed it yet? Can I keep talking?
[8:04] [laughter]
[8:07] We need a motion to adjurnn. Uh motion by Hagen, second by Olsson that we
[8:11] adjourn. All in favor signify by saying I.
[8:14] » I. >> Against say no. Motion carried. We're
[8:17] adjourned at uh 6:08 p.m. [clears throat]
[8:24] Wow. Uh >> okay.
[8:29] » So let's let's go right in. Anybody need a break? [laughter]
[8:34] Uh,
[8:39] you ready?
[8:42] » Okay. All right. Let's go right into the committee of the whole meeting. Uh, we I
[8:47] will call the committee of the whole meeting to order. It's Tuesday,
[8:50] September 1st, 2026. Uh, the time is 6:09 p.m. Uh, Barb, you want to take
[8:57] role again?
[9:01] Mayor Smith >> here.
[9:02] » Colin Dystra >> here.
[9:04] » Paul Hagen >> here.
[9:06] » Eric Halverson >> here.
[9:08] » Demetri Martin >> here.
[9:09] » Paul Mayo >> here.
[9:11] » Cory Nagel >> here.
[9:12] » Eric Olsen >> here.
[9:14] » Dave Peterson >> here.
[9:15] » Scott Paskki >> here.
[9:17] » Henry, nine eyes, nine present. We have a
[9:22] quorum. >> All right. You you have on your agenda
[9:25] that the meat of the agenda is is number three.
[9:30] Um, we are going to change this up just a little bit tonight. Uh, so for this
[9:38] meeting, we are only going to be discussing the the TIDS or the tiff
[9:42] districts as as we like to call them. Uh, we will not be uh discussing transit
[9:49] tonight. We need a little bit more time to present the transit uh u information
[9:57] to you. We want to make sure that we we have everything correct there before um
[10:03] we do that. And that should be the transit should be fairly simple anyways.
[10:07] Remember that we uh got out of the transit business and have turned it over
[10:12] to the county. We still are going to be responsible for some of the funding of
[10:16] that that transit. Uh and that's what we need to to work on a little bit more to
[10:22] fully understand that. So really, if you are approving the agenda, if you're
[10:27] making a motion to approve the agenda, it's only to discuss the uh TIFF
[10:32] overviews for tonight. So I'm looking for a motion to approve.
[10:36] » Motion to approve with the changes. >> Second.
[10:39] » Uh motion by Olsson, second by Nagel. Discussion. All in favor signify by
[10:45] saying [clears throat] I. >> I.
[10:46] » I. >> Against.
[10:49] Motion carried. All right. So, we're going to just go right down to 3B there.
[10:54] And uh I I will tell you this that uh and maybe Greg's going to say this
[11:00] anyways, but uh the pre we already have made the presentation to the board of
[11:05] review, which is our requirement. Uh and uh went well. We met with
[11:10] representatives from the county, the school district, and Fox Valley Tech as
[11:15] well as a a citizen at large for the city. and and uh I was and there were a
[11:20] few of us others that were there that night to too. So basically what you're
[11:25] going to see tonight is the the presentation that Greg had given at the
[11:30] board of review meeting. So I will turn it over to Greg.
[11:35] » All right. Uh thank you mayor. Thank you councel. Um, so as [clears throat] the
[11:39] mayor had just described, this this had been uh presented to joint review board
[11:43] um earlier this month. Um, and there were no questions or concerns from the
[11:48] members of the JRB. Um, I'm just going to walk through that basically again and
[11:52] stop me at any point if you have questions or concerns or would like to
[11:55] know more about anything. Um, so kind of starting at the high level, what is a
[12:00] tax incremental district and why do we have them? Uh so tax incremental
[12:05] financing is one of the most powerful economic development tools available in
[12:09] the state. At the basic level, uh tiffs help support community development. Upon
[12:14] the creation of a tax incremental district, uh property values within the
[12:18] TID boundaries are frozen. Taxes on new growth called increment are then used to
[12:24] fund development projects within the TID boundaries that would not otherwise
[12:28] occur. Uh once the costs for the development projects are repaid, the TID
[12:33] closes and all taxing jurisdictions benefit from that increased tax base.
[12:38] Waka has five tax incre incremental districts. Um those are of those there
[12:44] are two that are blight, one is industrial and then two are mixed use.
[12:48] So our existing TIDs which are shown there are TID 4 Western Avenue um which
[12:53] is along Fulton Street, TID 8 East Gateway um around the airport Fleet Farm
[12:59] area, uh TID 10 Badger Street in the downtown area, TID 11 River North and
[13:05] TID 12 along Churchill Street. Uh collectively since their inception,
[13:10] these TIDs have generated over $92 million in new base value or new value
[13:16] compared to their base. Um I'm just going to go through these now uh one by
[13:21] one. Um you'll see we'll start with just a beef brief description around uh the
[13:26] TID performance in 2025 at year end 2025 which is where the do reports the
[13:31] permanent revenue are um are pulling from and then um the performer will
[13:35] follow that as well. So on this map, you'll see um where all of those TIDs
[13:40] are located within the city boundaries.
[13:46] And then if you scroll down to the next page, we'll start with TID number four,
[13:50] which uh TID 4 is one of our uh most successful TIDs. was established in 2000
[13:56] and at the end of 2025 has achieved a TID value of over 53 million and it's
[14:05] increased 8% from last year. Uh TID is TID 4 is a recognized donor TID uh
[14:11] meaning that it is using its uh performance to help support other
[14:15] distressed TIDs that have obligations due to water and sewer and the general
[14:21] fund and debt service. Um, TID 4, TID 4 is currently donating to TID 8 and we
[14:27] expect TID 4 to remain open um through its maximum legal life of 2034 to
[14:34] support TID 8's obligation to uh water, sewer, and the debt service fund.
[14:41] And uh that's going to be probably hard for you to read. [laughter]
[14:46] » They should have it in their packet though, too.
[14:48] » That's true. So this just shows the um the cash flow in this TID. Uh the
[14:55] primary thing to pay attention there to is the transfers to TID 8 I would say
[15:00] which demonstrate uh what will be required to transfer into TID 8 uh to
[15:05] make TID 8 whole. And a lot of those obligations to TID 8
[15:11] stem from initial investments in that district uh to support major
[15:15] infrastructure projects. Uh and if you move to the next page,
[15:20] we'll talk more about TID 8 itself. Uh so TID 8 incorpor encompasses the
[15:26] area shown here. So a large part of the airport and then the Eastgate
[15:29] neighborhood. Um it was uh established in 2001 and has a yearend TID value of
[15:38] around $ 32.5 million uh which has increased by about $3.5 million from
[15:43] last year. This one does carry a substantial debt balance which we had
[15:48] talked about before. Uh and that debt must be repaid before it closes. Um it
[15:53] is a designated distressed TID which allowed us to extend its maximum life
[15:57] through 2034. We intend on keeping it open through its
[16:02] maximum legal life um and closing it with uh with donations from TID 4. uh we
[16:10] expect that it will be able to pay off all of its outstanding obligations at
[16:14] closure and I did confirm that today with the auditors as well. So you have
[16:18] it from Barrett and the auditors. >> Can I just touch on that just so we uh
[16:24] uh are clear on this? So we have uh the outstanding debt that TID aid has now is
[16:33] uh owed really to our water utility, our sewer utility and then to the amounts
[16:39] that the general fund uh lent to date throughout the beginning life of of that
[16:47] project as as that that was getting up and and running and stuff like that. So
[16:52] there is no outside if you count water and sewer as part of the city which it
[16:56] is. >> There is no outside debt outside of of
[17:00] of those three items. Uh the water we we're required by the PSC to pay the
[17:07] water debt back. The sewer debt we're not required to pay it back but it makes
[17:13] sense that we pay it back since we did borrow from that enterprise fund. And
[17:18] the same thing is true with the general fund too. the city council could decide
[17:22] not to pay back uh uh the general fund, but again, that is money that taxpayers
[17:29] have paid towards that TID and and so right now we're on that
[17:33] » uh that plan that uh all of these debts will get pretty close to being
[17:40] completely paid off. >> So,
[17:42] » just to clarify a little bit what Greg said.
[17:45] » Thank you. >> Go ahead, Greg.
[17:48] » Okay. Thank you, mayor. Um, next let's look at TID 10. Uh, this TID was also
[17:53] created in 2001. Um, and it has a 2025 year-end value of
[17:59] $4.9 million. Um, we expect that the the 2026 year-end value for this TID will
[18:06] actually be substantially increased due to the successful completion of that 30
[18:10] unit market rate apartment project um done by Schuli Properties. Um so that
[18:15] that that value is not on its 2025 year-end
[18:19] report. Um but expect that to hit in 2026 which will which will be
[18:23] significant for this TID. Uh this TID is um expected to close in 2028. So it'll
[18:29] be the next TID in line to close.
[18:34] And then um TID 11. This is River North. Obviously um
[18:40] something that we've spent a lot of time recently working on. This was created in
[18:44] 2022. Um we are seeing um really significant increases in the valuation
[18:49] of this TID which is expected. Um we in 2025 saw the value of this TID uh grow
[18:58] 19% from the year prior which is significant and we're expecting
[19:02] continued further growth in this as uh future projects that are currently under
[19:06] development uh with TYOR um are realized. Um so in 25 uh there was the
[19:13] successful construction and occupancy of a 45 unit affordable housing project
[19:19] from Mosaic and then of course as you know Tyor is out there building um 35
[19:23] single family home homes and 124 market rate apartment units. Um so expect to
[19:28] see those show up in the uh valuation of Tit 11 in the next few years.
[19:36] If I can uh just touch on the which is probably shows on the next page but
[19:42] touch on how we handled the tent. Just to remind everybody uh
[19:48] Daikor the the developer actually paid for all of the infrastructure which is
[19:55] not normally what's happened in the TID district. So they paid for 100% of of
[20:01] the uh of of the roads, the sewer and the water that that went in there. And
[20:06] uh so their payment back uh in in our tiff agreement is to pay is a higher
[20:14] percentage. And the reason that is is because we're basically paying back for
[20:18] putting in the roads and the main sewer lines and water lines too. We're not
[20:24] They're still paying for the laterals that go to the homes, but but the main
[20:28] sewer and water lines are are city responsibility and so are the roads, the
[20:32] curbs, the sidewalk that are not adjacent to the home. So that is
[20:37] something that they did and so we'll be paying them back over that uh
[20:42] [clears throat] period of time that we have in that agreement. Um so yeah.
[20:47] » Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. And then finally, we have a TID 12 uh
[20:54] Churchill Street. Uh this was created in 20 uh 22. Um and the hope with the
[21:00] creation of this TID was to help induce the redevelopment of a couple of former
[21:05] industrial sites into um what we were hoping would be commercial um to medium
[21:11] or high density residential. Um at this time there have not been any projects in
[21:17] this TID. uh but the the TID is still quite young.
[21:25] And then um through the rest of the packet you'll see uh the TID annual
[21:29] reports um which were completed by our auditors um in compliance with the DO
[21:34] requirements. And um that is really all that I have to
[21:38] present on the TIDS. Um if there are any questions, I'd be happy to walk through
[21:42] those. Um, one of the things that I should mention as well is that the uh we
[21:51] are not able to create new TIDs when the TID value exceeds 13% of our equalized
[21:57] valuation. Right now it's like 13.2%. So once TID 10 closes, we'll probably be
[22:02] able to do that in 28. And then there's also some new TID laws around affordable
[22:06] housing, TIDS, um, which could be a tool for us too, but that's still sort of
[22:11] being figured out at at the capital. Um, so there there could be some exciting
[22:15] opportunities to use TIDs to support affordable housing in the future as
[22:18] well. >> I think uh if you
[22:23] take a look at uh the performer that's on page 18, I think this is important
[22:29] for us to understand this too. Um if you look under the the background data
[22:36] uh which is in the green area way on the left uh and you will see uh it starts in
[22:43] 2025. Um and that's what Greg was alluding to
[22:48] when he said that uh there was uh an increase of about $3 million in there.
[22:55] We did have uh built into that proforma uh almost $4 million. So we are a little
[23:03] short and uh at the beginning of this project and hopefully we'll make that up
[23:07] as we go. Um again uh the apartment buildings are going up pretty fast now
[23:14] that are on um Godfrey, is that right? Godfrey Drive uh by the bus garage
[23:20] there. Those are going up. I'm not sure if they'll be completed by the end of
[23:25] 2026, but I think that's the plan. And then so far, out of those 35 units of
[23:32] homes that that um Tyor has said they're going to build, I see that there's nine
[23:38] of them out there right now. Some are completed, some are just start, a couple
[23:42] are just started. And so again, uh we're looking for an increment construction
[23:49] increment of about $5.6 $6 million there. We'll have to keep a close eye on
[23:54] that to make sure that uh that uh we're meeting those goals. It's not to say
[24:00] that some of those monies, those construction increment might not fall
[24:05] into later years that are that are in there. Um as long as we are still within
[24:12] the ability to pay out there. I think the key to this to tell you the truth is
[24:17] is that uh this is just when we talk about the single family homes in 101.
[24:24] Um this is just the first phase of that. You know, this is just the part by
[24:29] Royalton Street. There's a there's a whole big area there yet that needs to
[24:35] be developed that goes from where uh where the current homes are all the way
[24:41] to Godfrey Drive and stuff like that, too. So, The sooner we can get this
[24:46] phase one done, the more years we'll have to be able to uh have another uh
[24:53] development agreement with either Taikor or whoever else wants to do the rest of
[24:57] the project. So, we need to we need to keep an eye on on that project and hope
[25:03] that it continues to move forward. And like I said, um they have some goals
[25:08] they have to meet before we have to uh have to uh pay them uh what our
[25:14] agreement is and and we're working through that right now. But uh so Eric,
[25:19] » yeah, I I have a question about TID 12 on Churchill. How do we decide what the
[25:24] scope of the TID is? I see what's in purple there. I'm just the reason I'm
[25:29] asking is because I see that that uh building that I think agape was given
[25:34] whatever that building was now is for sale and I think that's going to be a
[25:38] tough sale to make. Is there any reason that be can't be included in it as well
[25:44] or is it once it's established it's done?
[25:47] » Well, as Greg said, u and again he's getting to be the expert on this. kids
[25:51] in a hurry, but uh you know, we're already at our 12%. So to trying to
[25:56] expand TID 12 to include that um would be almost impossible right now.
[26:03] » Although what we could do is we could expand our boundaries. Uh you can expand
[26:11] your boundary for a half mile and use funds from 10 TID 12 to help with that
[26:20] project. The only problem with that is is that it's not a TID project. So the
[26:25] only one that's going to be sharing in the cost of the city themselves, the
[26:30] county and the school district and Fox Valley Tech would not we could use Ted
[26:34] dollars, but we we can't expect them that they'll have to they'll be
[26:39] participating in that. It would be difficult,
[26:42] » okay, >> to do. Um, TID Club is a is a TID that
[26:48] we were hoping would be our Churchill Street quarter type thing, beginning of
[26:52] our Churchill Street Quarter. We really don't have anything there right now that
[26:58] is planned. Uh, we see properties there that that
[27:04] could benefit from TIDS, but we don't we don't see anything really in the near
[27:09] future there for TID 12.
[27:15] Go ahead. >> Um I'm curious about TID 8 was created
[27:18] in 2001. It was declared according to this distressed
[27:23] 2010 and I haven't lived here since 2001. I'm
[27:29] missing about 20 years of context here, but it looks like the only thing that's
[27:34] been developed there is that subdivision. So, is there any hope for
[27:39] this to to continue to generate value or is this about it?
[27:45] » Well, there there's there's more than the apartments that are out there. I
[27:49] mean, there's the subdivision that's out there. There's the apartments. There's
[27:54] » uh there was just a new business that was built on
[27:58] » what road is that >> Alliance.
[28:04] it. There's no doubt, Cory, that it is a distress TID. And uh
[28:10] um TIDA was started uh for two projects. Uh one was the airport runway to expand
[28:18] uh the uh to to expand to to receive jets. uh
[28:25] and mainly you know I mean the big impetus for that was uh the foundry you
[28:30] know at that time was using uh multiple jets in and out of there and the run the
[28:35] runway that we had was not large enough. Uh we did of course get uh some grant
[28:41] money to help us through the Bureau of Aeronautics
[28:44] uh and so on. Uh but the biggest project there and Paul can attest to this too.
[28:50] The biggest project that we did out there was to put in the overpass that
[28:54] went over Highway 10. That was County Highway A. It was probably the most
[28:58] dangerous uh intersection in the county. And and
[29:04] so the city took it upon themselves to make it not the dangerous most dangerous
[29:10] intersection. It did end up costing us a lot of money. Uh if we have one regret
[29:17] out in TID 8 that we maybe maybe we put in sewer and water a little
[29:22] bit quicker than we needed to. And so that's why you'll see the the the
[29:28] lending from the water and the sewer funds to cover that. But uh yeah, I I I
[29:34] think we all along we felt like um it was going to be a difficult tid.
[29:40] Um I think we were hoping that there would be there is still land out there
[29:46] to be developed but uh we were hoping that it would develop a lot faster. The
[29:52] good news is is that it actually is uh um
[29:57] standing on its own except for the debt that it incurred before you know. So it
[30:03] if you if you take the debt out of there completely, it actually has generated
[30:08] quite a bit of additional revenue from where it originally started.
[30:14] So yeah, that's a that's a tough one. Titate is tough one to explain, but it
[30:20] it I feel good that we did that project, both of those projects out there.
[30:27] » Tiff eight got a bad rap from the beginning, but
[30:31] It it very much helped jumpst start those projects and and was beneficial to
[30:36] the city.
[30:42] » Anybody else have any questions of Greg or comments on this?
[30:49] » Go ahead. >> For 12 on Churchill Street, you said
[30:52] there was some increment. Where did that come from?
[30:55] Maybe I'm reading it wrong.
[31:00] The increment did not come from new construction. Well, I I guess indirectly
[31:05] it could have. >> Um,
[31:07] » is it an increase in value? >> It's just increase in value.
[31:10] » Yeah. Okay, >> that's all.
[31:12] » Thank you.
[31:18] The only other thing that I could tell you is, and Greg hit on this, and I hit
[31:21] on it once before, too, uh, we are not able to do any other TIDs
[31:27] until we get below that 12%. So if we were to decide to close any of these
[31:34] tids where they're projected earlier, it would be because we feel like we have a
[31:40] project that we need to be get we need to get under that 12%.
[31:45] We just don't have anything like that um in the workings right now, but who knows
[31:53] in the next couple years or so there there might be something that happens
[31:57] there. We'll see. Anybody
[32:02] else?
[32:06] Greg, thank you. Nice job. [snorts] Of course.
[32:09] » Um, anything else for the good of this committee, the whole meeting?
[32:15] We need a motion to adjurnn. >> Second.
[32:17] » Aen Olsson. All in favor signify by saying I. I. I.
[32:22] » Against say no. >> Motion carried. We'rejourned at 6:32
[32:27] p.m. Have a great night, everybody.