[0:16] Thank you. Okay. Good evening and welcome to the town of Wenham select board meeting. It is September 22nd. We are beginning at 630 this evening here in Town Hall. And I will call the meeting to order in attendance this evening. We have. Gary Cheeseman. Ken Sprague. Peter Clay Benjamin Tymann. And myself. Deirdre Pierotti.

[0:42] Thank you for joining us this evening. And we will start off with public comment. If anyone wishes to address the board on matters not on this evening’s agenda, any anyone on zoom? No. Hands raised. All right. Thank you. So we will move on.

[1:08] Steve, are you ready for town administrator’s report? I’ll set. Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, firstly, I just want to thank Marty Laurie from the Hamilton-Wenham Garden Club, who, acting as herself and not with the garden Club, has very generously. Again, um, beautified the back of town hall here, so I don’t know if you’d notice. Walking in the pumpkins and plantings and stuff.

[1:30] That’s something she does, uh, on her own. Uh, so we appreciate that, Marty. And, um, so and then additionally, so the one a project is moving along, we just submitted to the state. Uh, you know, it’s hard to get into the mindset that we are, in a sense, a utility.

[1:48] Now we maintain space on the on the poles for our fiber ring that connects us into the North Shore Collaborative. So we have a fiber, um, cable that runs and connects all the municipal buildings here and then taps into the North Shore fiber ring where we have we house our, um, our data centers, where the

[2:08] physical infrastructure is actually in Danvers. So, uh, we just negotiated and finalized the contract to take down those wires for the, um, and put up temporary wires for the project to be completed, and then to reinstall the permanent wires in place.

[2:31] So that kind of popped up at the last minute and, uh, worked with Danvers through that and got that all, all solidified. Uh, and then I got two more updates, and then I’m going to hand it over to Joe. Similar to last week, he has a couple of personnel updates that he’ll update the board on.

[2:47] But firstly, the Pingree Park Recreation Area, the community survey is still open. Uh, the information is on the website. We’ve had significant amount of participation, so that’s really good. And but you know, we always are seeking more. So if you haven’t taken the survey please do. So. It’s on the website pretty much front and center.

[3:05] But if you’re having difficulty finding it, don’t hesitate to call or send an email to the Select Board’s office so we can direct you. In addition, the Pingree Park Community Workshop will take place on Tuesday, September 29th at 530. Uh, just note that this meeting is first going to stop at Pingree Park.

[3:25] So the first the meeting will gather initially at 530 at Pingree Park. It will be a guided sidewalk by staff, uh, where you can share your, um, ideas and vision. And then a community workshop will take place shortly thereafter at 6 p.m. at the library.

[3:43] So generally walk back over as a group, uh, where we can continue the discussion. And, um, you know, again, just for residents listening at home, there is no, no decision is being made. We’re still fact finding and gathering data to help guide the ultimate decision on what to do with the tennis courts at Pingree Park. And with that, I’ll turn it over to Joe.

[4:02] Thanks, Steve. Um, thank you to the board, to allowing me to speak. I just wanted to quickly mention that the town yesterday had a discrimination, harassment, training, avoidance training, and it was very well received. It was hosted by KP Law attorneys, Michelle Randazzo and Devin Brown. Um, hosted. And there’s three different blocks from 12 to 2.

[4:25] We had non supervisory staff, 230 to 430 department heads and supervisors. And from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. in the evening, the reporting committee members. And again it was very well received. We had this a couple of years ago. We’re hoping to do this every two years or so.

[4:39] We feel that the town feels it’s very important training. It’s just part of the overall revamp of the HR department. Um, since Steve has taken over under his administration. Um, so again, we’re happy to do that.

[4:55] Yesterday, uh, was one very well, I also wanted to mention the town extended an offer to the new assistant accountant. His name is Josh Bogle. He will be starting October 19th. He comes from us, from the town, most recently the town of Marblehead, as the assistant town treasurer there. He also has a background in the private sector. Was assistant vice president for US Bank in Boston for a number of years.

[5:12] He also is a Hamilton resident, so we’re looking forward to him starting October 19th. Well, I also quickly wanted to mention the CPC will be having their public hearing this Thursday, September 24th at 6:30 p.m..

[5:30] They’ll be talking about it’ll be a public forum so residents, staff looking to potentially push through projects for CPA funding should definitely attend. That will be on zoom. That’s all ahead. Yeah. Good flag. Thanks, Joe. Uh, and that’s that’s all I have tonight. Great. Thank you. I just want to echo Steve’s thanks to Marty Lowry for lending her talents and beautifying the town hall planters. That is greatly appreciated.

[5:49] And I wanted to just give a shout out to the schools, in particular, the high school. Having attended the curriculum night last week, I was once again truly impressed by the quality of the education, the energy and enthusiasm from the teachers. It was amazing. We even played a math game.

[6:07] It was like it was amazing. It was a great time and I’m very excited for the kids, for the school year and all the opportunities they have. So it was great. Who’s next? Gary? Nope. All set? All set. Didn’t have anything. Thank you. I do. Um, Michelle.

[6:27] So I don’t know if people have been to Cheesman Field recently, but, um, the memorial used to be out on the other side of the fence in left field. Can can we see. That? Uh, nice. So this is right behind home plate. And, I mean, I know Dean Peterson has spent a lot of time on this.

[6:50] I was talking to him about it last night at the harassment thing. Um, and I’m sure other people have helped. His big issue was trying to figure out how to get water to there. But, uh, it’s it’s it’s beautiful. It really is. Hope you are hopefully pleased as well. Yes. Very pleased. Thank you. Great honor. That’s lovely. Thank you.

[7:18] I don’t have anything. All right. Thank you. Yes. Everyone should go over and see it. I’d like to see it. Actually, I didn’t know it was done. That’s great. It’s beautiful. Yeah. It looks. It all right with that? Um, just a note on the agenda.

[7:36] I may take some items out of order just to try to be respectful of people’s time. Who are visitors here at the meeting? But for the moment, we’ll move to the consent agenda, where we have open session meeting minutes. And if there are no questions. I’ll move to approve item A as printed on this evening’s consent agenda. 20s. All right. We’ll take a vote. Gary.

[8:00] Uh, I’m up because that’s prior to my turn. Okay. All right then. And votes I. Deirdre I Peter. Yes, then. Yes. Great. Thank you. And Gary abstained. Okay. So we will move to I think he’s ready. Are you good, rich? Okay. We have. Okay.

[8:29] We have a presentation this evening from our director of the DPW Department of Public Works. We have Rich Souza this evening who will update us. We’ll have our annual hearing about paving, sidewalks, safety and all those great issues. Thank you, Rich, very much. Thank you much for having me.

[8:49] Um, so the last time I was here, I think that was last May. So this work will cover all of last summer, up until this summer, and really up until today. Um, so the streets that we, uh, paved since that time includes Arbor, Cedar, a section of Cherry and Foster Street, uh, a few of the highlights I wanted to bring on.

[9:14] This is, um, that that that amount of street was over a mile and a half. Um, you know, within, you know, a 13, 14 month period. So making good progress. Um, Arbor Street to touch on that was that was done in regards with the Route 1A project coming up, where that was a street that needed a lot of attention.

[9:37] I wanted to get to that last year, have that completely done. So when that project begins, they’re picking up from where I ended and coming forward towards one. A so, um, now I, you know, expect not to have to go to that area for quite some time. Um, kind of leapfrog a little bit with the sidewalk work.

[10:00] Last year we did about 800ft on Arbor Street. This year, I think it was about 750 of of sidewalk work. Uh, so. Right, you know, within a school zone, um, you know, highly traveled during, um, you know, during the school year, it was an important project that I wanted to complete prior to the Route 1A

[10:18] work. So I’m happy that that’s finished. And I don’t plan to go there for, you know, a while, unless need be. Um, Cedar Street. Which can I just. Sure about. Arbor Street.. So that stretch from more or less school to one a yep. So when is that going to be done.

[10:36] So where I, where the end of the project is at a it’s really at the church of the, of the paving the. So you’re doing so I’m, I’m thinking about if I’m walking down Arbor. On this. school on sidewalk or street. On the sidewalk on the right.

[10:55] The sidewalks in. So going on the right hand side, on the school side is in good shape. So I don’t think we’ll have to replace sidewalk from really school Street to one a other than the work that will be done within the one a project.

[11:16] The state will be addressing sidewalk work in that area does that is that clear? So if I’m standing on the corner of Arbor Street. Yeah, looking down the right hand side of Arbor Street. Yep. That I walk back that every night. And if I didn’t have a light on I’d be falling off, falling all over the place.

[11:36] All right. So we’ll we’ll take a look. I take. A look, I think. It. Please. A section of that is within the one a project. So I will take a look at, I guess from School Street to where 1:00 ends.

[11:55] So if, if the, if the one a project does down to the first driveway on the right side of arbor, that would be a huge it. Uh, yeah. So that improvement because that that is just brutal. I’d have to be I’d have to take a look.

[12:12] I know basically that project ends at the church at like the end of the church property. So that’s I was out from one A to the church property. So that section should be addressed. And then if anything else in the middle, I’ll come back and, and kind of make that connection. Okay. Well, um, clearly down to the church would be a big improvement.

[12:27] Oh, yeah. Yep. That’s that’s included in the one a project. So I have to keep my wife has to keep showing me how to turn my light on so I don’t kill myself. So I do think a lot of that would be accomplished with that project. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Uh, moving on to Cedar Street.

[12:44] Uh, that was a stretch from route 97 to pretty much the beginning of the lake. So that was the roughest section that needed to be done. So we took care of that. Um, again, about 1750ft. Um, just recently, this summer, uh, Cherry Street was completed.

[13:10] So that was from the Audubon all the way to route 97 on that side. And that was a massive need. So that was a big, big repair. It looks it looks great. Um, things seem to be, you know, flowing through there. You know, very well. Um, I two years ago completed a stretch from the, um, the Audubon towards, um, I think it’s old town way.

[13:35] So we’ve gotten, um, I’d say almost a mile of road done just on Cherry Street in the last couple cycles. Uh, Foster Street was just a section of that street that was really, um, in disrepair. So we had to replace that. So, um, all in all, it’s been a busy year.

[13:54] Um, again, about a mile and a half, uh, and then including the sidewalk work has been, um, you know, very beneficial. And then on Porter Street again, kind of keeping it within the, the school area, there was a lot of sections that needed repair, so weren’t able to do the entire stretch of Porter Street. But many of the, you know, the worst sections were replaced.

[14:14] So a huge improvement as far as, um, um, the sidewalk work, you know, Arbor and Porter and then just the, the increase, you know, just keep doing more and more road work as we go. Um, so that brings us to today.

[14:33] Uh, we’re still funded through chapter 90 for a section of sidewalk on Cedar Street. And that’s going to be from the Cherry Street intersection towards the lake. I think it’s, um, I can’t think of the number, but there’s a access road for Salem. Every water over there. So basically that’s, um, that stretch will be completed as well.

[14:54] And then the ramps on at that location at Cedar Street will do. And then at Porter Street, I’m going to do it right at, um, Pingree Park pretty much the last ramp in town, right at the exit or I guess on the library side, there’s a crosswalk from, um, Pingree to Porter Street that’s going to get completed

[15:13] as well. So that’s all still going to happen. That’s funded. They’ll be done within, uh, um, fiscal year 27. So if it’s not, if it’s not this fall, it’ll be the first project we do in the spring.

[15:29] So a lot, lot, um, a lot of work that has been created and still, you know, a little bit more for the fiscal year 27. That’s great. So this, you know, leads us to okay, so for for moving forward, FY 28, um, you know, what roads am I going to focus on on then. Um, I’m going to keep it to just dodges row.

[15:51] Uh, the complete, um, road work complete roadway will be done. And, um, Larch Row and that’s going to be from the Grapevine Road intersection right to the Hamilton line. Uh, that stretches is pretty in rough shape.

[16:09] And I think, uh, you know, we’ll look at one more winter out of that and then we’ll redo. We’ll redo that road. So that’ll be a major improvement. The thought being by then, it’s expected construction for the one a project will be will have begun. So there’ll be a lot of a lot of construction work. Um, you know, a lot of traffic, um, you know, down this way.

[16:31] So if I focus on sort of the other side of town, hopefully my work won’t really impede travelers trying to get through. And, you know, I guess the construction fatigue will be, you know, less.

[16:50] I won’t be in this area where we’re more or less bombarding, um, residents and just travelers that have, you know, a lot of construction. So the thought is, next couple of years, focus on areas that aren’t really here or right downtown. Try to stay out of the way. Um, that being said, Steve actually mentioned a little bit of, um, of the fiber work that was, um, completed recently.

[17:11] Um, just to kind of keep everybody aware, September 15th was the last day for, um, for bids for that project. So that was a week ago from, from today. So it’s going to take a couple of months for the Dot to review bids go over. Um, um, contracts and awards.

[17:35] So, uh, just a milestone, I guess it has been, you know, recent milestone with that roadwork project that that was, uh, the 15th. So we’re moving right along in that sense, and any questions regarding, I guess, the dot work? I don’t I don’t have all the answers, but that’s sort of the, the approaches for me, my work to go not right here downtown and

[17:56] um, things are moving along with that project. So can you just remind us what was the projected like breaking ground? Was it do we know that spring? I think it’s spring. Um, there is their projection on the website. Is fall, and I don’t see that being possible.

[18:23] I don’t think they’re going to have a contract awarded, you know, and by that time and all the bonding that takes place. So I don’t know how aggressive they would be beginning of the winter, I get the feeling, you know, they’ll say the beginning of spring, start that project. So I would I would definitely be more comfortable saying, I think it’s more springtime project. Okay.

[18:41] And if I recall correctly, they’ll start using this coming spring. They’ll work over the summer and then they’ll pause over the winter while the the asphalt factories basically are shut down and then start up again the following spring.

[19:06] So I mean, that’s yes, the answer is, um, most likely some, some asphalt, uh, facilities remain open, but depends on what phase they’re in. They may be able to do other pieces of the project that isn’t roadway or, um, you know, asphalt, uh, concrete related. Um, but there’s plenty of other, you know, utilities.

[19:25] Um, removal or moving that they can do where they may not finish a roadway or pour a concrete slab. Um, so I do think I think work will continue from the beginning to the end. It just depends on sort of what phase or, you know, what task I guess they’re able to do during the winter months. Yeah.

[19:45] One of the things that I think I’ve mentioned before is, uh, you know, the, the exhaustion that that, uh, residents are going to have with the project and like, figuring out what kind of, uh, community communication methods we have available to, to say, you know, our plan is to start on this date, and the plan is for it to be done by, you know,

[20:01] if they know when it’s going to be done, the probably be a little bit more, um, willing to, uh, suffer it all right when you know it’s going to end. You don’t complain or, you know, that sort of thing.

[20:15] So I’m wondering if, uh, we can, uh, as as you get closer to the dates when they, they can harden up. Yep. Um, if we can think about how we’re going to communicate that out. Yeah. So I think that’s, that’s going to be most of my job, you know, or my piece of the project.

[20:32] I’ll be more or less a liaison from the Dot to the town. So I’ll make sure Steve and Joe are, you know, aware of sort of where we are.

[20:46] You know, I won’t be day to day, but, you know, maybe week to week, month to month, we can sort of, you know, have a progress track of sort of how things are going and if there’s any, um, you know, any issues. But we’ll definitely make sure I think we’ll make sure the town is aware, because that’s going to be my, my role. People are going to call Sheila upstairs before they call the D.O.T..

[21:01] You know what’s going on. So I’m gonna have to have a lot of those answers. You know, quite often, I think. So I’m fully aware that’s. I’ll be busy with I think just that part of it. Mm. Okay. Yeah.

[21:15] I’m looking forward to to, uh, hearing how you plan on, on handling that as the, as it gets closer. So. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you Steve. Quite a bit on that. Well the other person you guys should probably talk to us sitting in the back of the room. Oh yes. Yes, yes. The newspaper.

[21:36] I guess we’ll keep all all outlets as aware as you know, as we are. You know for sure. Gary. With costs going up, where are we? On the. Paving contract? That’s a multi-year contract. Yep. So we’re year one ended July 1st. So we now in the second year of the of the three year contract.

[21:56] So July or June 30th of 27 we’ll end year two and then we’ll pick up year 3rd June first of 27 are July 1st of 27 to June 30th of 28. So we’re in good shape in that sense. We’re obviously, um, petroleum prices are high. So, um, we’re we’re in a contract for three years, so we’re in good shape with that.

[22:19] Good. Uh, next slide please. So this is where there’s some photos at the end of the, uh, of the presentation will pop in, but, um, a couple, uh, work that a couple of crosswalks we’ve done recently are two, um, crosswalks at Gordon College.

[22:45] Um, I’ll get into a little bit more with the work I’ve done with Gordon regarding installation of, of crosswalks. But they reached out a year and a half ago, um, to try and clean up some of those crosswalks. So I’ve worked with with them quite a bit.

[23:03] And, um, I’ll, I’ll wait for the next slide to kind of give in how it’s been a good partnership of completing what they were hoping for, what the town, um, you know, benefited from and, uh, how we kind of the two parties were able to accomplish this together. Um, the other one is Cherry Street at Pleasant Street.

[23:24] Uh, that was sort of a continuation of all the work, the road work on Cherry Street. I did, and then the other one was Larch Row, um, at Larch Lane, which is the Wenham Housing Authority. So those ones are completed and, uh, future sidewalks for 28 will include, um, a grapevine road at Larch and, um, a sidewalk on Larch Row.

[23:48] I want to, um, uh, work with, uh, probably Kate and maybe Gary with a Reynolds farm. There’s a more or less just a path that is, uh, from Larch Lane and continues down Larch Row. So there’s, um, an opportunity that I think that we have, that it’s a good again, the same, um, approach where these two locations aren’t downtown.

[24:11] So the fatigue that Phineas was talking about, I’m trying to keep that to a minimum. Those are actually those are two of the locations. I just I just spoke about where Larch Lane, Larch Row, and then Grapevine Road at, um, at Gordon College.

[24:33] So we go next because we have some pictures and some of these are some before and afters. So for the last slide a couple of dots, if you could see on the left side that’s what this crosswalk looked like before. It was just more or less a pull off area with, you know, crosswalk right across the street today.

[24:54] We now have an actual two Ada landings, um, going across, and we’ve added, uh, this uh, uh, speed indicator sign. This was part I’ll kind of start here. We received a dot grant. Um, it was a municipal feedback sign.

[25:20] Grant where I was able to, um, I was awarded three of these signs at no cost other than I had to pay for the install. So, um, you’ll see a couple of locations, but there’s one at this location. There’s one further down. Grapevine still in the Gordon College campus area. And then the third is actually at Arbor Street.

[25:41] And if anybody’s noticed that one, um, coming in from Hamilton, now we have one basically right before Settler’s Lane. So, um, very beneficial in the sense again, for that one.

[26:03] As far as, uh, the school traffic that there was, um, you know, quite a bit of complaints when I first got here regarding speeding and just the way people drive on Arbor Street, you know, they’re, uh, in the school zone. So, uh, we got that one done.

[26:28] And then working with, um, Gordon College, we a year and a half ago, uh, myself and their facilities person and one of their grant writers worked on a, um, a shared streets grant for a lot of this work. Uh, we didn’t get the project, but it was the, um, one at the Bennett Center. The crosswalk where you press the button just so we have an arbitrary in the light, and the lights flash. RFB is are called, uh, rapid vegan flashing lights.

[26:47] Um, so we wanted one one of those there, and then at least these speed and indicator signs at the two locations, we didn’t get the grant during that time. Uh, Gordon installed an RFP at the Bennett Center. They paid for that for that actual, um, that material. And then I was able to in the meantime, do these Ada ramps at these locations.

[27:12] And then I just received, um, these speed indicator, uh, signs about a month ago. So now they’re installed. So it was a good working, um, us all working together to kind of accomplish, you know, one goal where they, you know, they had some skin in the game where they paid for that one

[27:29] crosswalk. And we were able to, you know, take care of these other ones. So it was it was a win in the sense of, um, just safety on, on Grapevine Road. So I’m happy and proud of that. Uh, okay. With the next one.

[27:51] So this is the the second at Gordon. Um, I think I, I think it’s a woodland parking lot. I think that’s the name of that one where on the left hand side there was, you know, really not much there. And now today we have the Ada ramps and, and you can see the sign here.

[28:08] So, um, you know, big improvements for, you know, highly traveled area, a lot of, a lot of college kids walking back and forth to class next one. This I mentioned this earlier. This is, uh, the Cherry Street or other pleasant, pleasant road, uh, ramps. So it just just improvements, you know, everything.

[28:32] Um, around town that there’s, you know, an opportunity to improve, um, trying to, you know, take a shot at all these spots and, and keep, um, keep making things, you know, safer to travel. More obvious where those crosswalks, uh, for pedestrians and traffic. And then this is the, uh, Larch Lane. Larch row.

[28:56] Uh, crosswalk again. So this is, um, when a housing authority, you know, I make it safer for the seniors to be able to, you know, take a walk, leave, leave their, um, you know, their area of their facility. And, you know, if they want to go for a walk on a nice day, come down Larch Row.

[29:16] And this is where more or less the, um, sidewalk. I want to add next year picks up on on the the left hand side of this picture and continues, um, down Larch Row. So, uh, just trying to keep things, you know, easier, easier travel for, you know, all, all walks of life.

[29:40] Um, a couple other just, you know, additions that we’ve done. Uh, this is Cedar Street. This is the end at 97. If you see on the left, that was the previous island that was there. It was, um, it was very old.

[30:00] The the curbing was old concrete curbing that had been more or less broken apart over the years. The island itself was Earth. So, um, not just a, you know, maintenance, you know, like a nightmare. But if cars were to drive over that section, there’d be ruts in it.

[30:19] So there was a lot of, um, a lot of damage that happened to, um, this island. Uh, so that was, you know, we went we added new curbing, made it all last fall. I worked with the garden club to insure them that the the, uh, planters weren’t going to be, um, you know, removed.

[30:36] So, uh, I was actually with, with Marty Lowry, who was the one that I did a lot of that work with. Uh, there’s no I don’t have other pictures for it. But we did both ends of, um, of cedar.

[30:52] So on the Cherry Street side, uh, that island was actually just moved over a little bit and actually shortened and, and again, you know, a asphalt berm and asphalt island itself, so much more rugged, um, better for plowing things like that. So, you know, again, um, anytime I do work on a road, I try to do as much, um, improvements as I can at, you know, along the entire roadway. I think that that would be the last, last slide with any kind of photos.

[31:17] Um, so, yeah, other than what we have planned for next year, you know, again, being sort of on the outskirts of town, that’s, uh, that’s the approach I’m taking. And I think it’s going to work out where we don’t have too much going on in one area. Any questions? Like I feel any questions from the board? No.

[31:38] I just say, um, our sidewalks are a lot safer now. Thank you. In key places. Yes. Thank you. That’s that’s the idea is, um, you know, hit the ones that are immediate needs and then, um, hopefully I’ll get to a point someday where I’m looking for sidewalks. You know, I’m good to do. So. Thank you.

[31:59] Yes. And we were just spinning ideas before the meeting. And there’s some good opportunities out there. That’s right. Still a few opportunities. But you’re you’re checking them off the list, Rich. So thank you. We appreciate the hard work and your attentiveness to making these improvements and improving our safety.

[32:17] Appreciate it. So thank you very much. Thanks for coming this evening. Thank you. Thanks, Rachel. Thanks. Great job. Thanks. Okay. So next we have item C which is the YMCA partnership request. Do we have someone here. To present. Yes we do. Yep. Okay.

[32:39] So we’re going to be hearing from a representative from YMCA about a request for the town to partner with the Y. And we’ll hear about the potential benefits and possible obligations. Hi, Helen. Are you here? So I’m just gonna get into it quickly. Introduce. Guys. Can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear you. Helen.

[32:57] Just hold up one second. I’ll just want to tee up a little. Um, so about six months, maybe even a little bit more. Um, David Anderson, who’s a member of the planning board, is also on the board of directors at the YMCA.

[33:13] Uh, he asked me to sit down with their executive director and see if there was any mutual benefit to a partnership between one of them and the YMCA. Um, I thought he had a lot of good ideas about, uh, resources and programming that could add to our CoA and our recreation programs.

[33:36] Um, we also, you know, talked about maybe bringing looping Hamilton in and, you know, so and then I kind of I asked Joe to get involved. Joe, um, to coordinate a meeting with both co directors in both Hamilton and Wenham. Uh, myself, Joe Domelowicz.

[34:00] Um Sean Timmons from the rec department and, you know, kind of meet in, brainstorm on things that could be helpful utilizing both the YMCA space and also some of the town space. Um, and so we have representatives here that are that are from the YMCA. Hamilton is already entered into this agreement with them.

[34:21] Uh, the agreement asked the town to, uh, you know, partner with them. And, you know, it was a little vague. And what that what the expectations were going to be from the YMCA on the town, whether it be, you know, advertising for them or whatnot. And I just wanted to, um, you know, where this would be.

[34:41] The select board in this case, uh, town manager signing for Hamilton. But in this sport, in this case would be the select board signing. I wanted to invite the Y in to talk directly with the select board on what the expectations would be, and allowed the board to ask any questions.

[34:59] Helen, is your coworker here as well? On zoom? Um, I do not believe that he is here. Okay. Um, she they just got back from, uh, General Assembly, which is, uh, the annual, not annual. They do it every three years. Huge, uh, national wide convention. Sure. So she just got back.

[35:20] Um, honestly, my portion of this is more. I’m. I’m part of what’s called the regional membership team. So how my role in this came upon is I just I have been working for years. I’ve been with the Y for about 14 years.

[35:43] I started out as the membership director at KPMG, the small one, uh, worked very closely with the KPN Chamber of Commerce, which I still do, and um, had some great partnerships there. Oh, this is terrific. So these partnerships, they really do not um, they don’t entail any huge commitment on the community.

[36:06] So just to kind of give you a background, we just part of my role is, um, in terms of being a regional, uh, staff member is there are six of us who are big support for the local teams, but we all have kind of our specialty wheelhouse.

[36:21] And through working with the KPN Chamber of Commerce, through it all started in Covid when we were doing the buildout for the brand new I, which I hope you guys have all been to. It’s fabulous. Um, shameless plug and um, we really started developing some great partnerships.

[36:42] Now we have relationships with every single one of our communities in our service area, and all we’re asking, all we wanted to do was to just partner with the town, offer a nice discount to town employees. So we have this with every single one of our communities. Beverley and Gloucester. We have Hamilton, we have Ipswich, we have Swampscott, we have Marblehead. And it’s just a really nice added benefit to give to the town employees.

[37:03] Um, where could they and Tim and the Beverley team came in. That’s where what we love to do is just become part of a community resource. So whatever types of partnerships will benefit the community of Wenham, as also and the why, we have very like minded um, goals and uh, reach for our for our communities.

[37:27] I love partnering with the seniors and the Council on Aging. We bring things to you. We can you can come to us. So that’s really all it is, was we just wanted to say, would you like to have a discount for your employees? That simple. Uh, Colleen. Yes. Um, so my name is Peter Clay. I’m a member. Hi.

[37:51] And I’m very impressed when I go, um, hopefully three times a week when I in the afternoon, the programs for seniors, it’s really. It’s really amazing what you folks do with them. Um. What which ones have you been able to see? I’m sorry. Which ones do you know of? Of anything. Was it anything specific that you that you saw? Was it something like.

[38:13] Well, when you walk in to, to the Beverly Y. Yeah. As you’re walking back towards the locker rooms on your right, they have the children’s and then the next one is where the seniors are doing exercises, and they’re being led through, uh, by one of your counselors. Yes. Lee Benton, she is a gem.

[38:34] She has been with us for close to 30 years. Um, I don’t know if you guys also know. You must know because you’re a member. But of our cornerstone program. And that was really. That was the brainchild of our CEO, Chris Vasko.

[38:50] And I was lucky enough to be on the development team for that as well. And in a nutshell, that’s a complimentary one year membership for cancer survivors and their families. So a lot of our stuff is donor based. Um, and we like to be able to share, you know, it’s more about spreading the mission.

[39:10] Um, as somebody said about, you know, is it about it’s not really it’s not about advertising that that’s not the the goal. The goal is to just share the resources of the why.

[39:30] Um, in terms of, you know, health and wellness and community and social opportunities and housing and all of the cool things that, um, you know, a lot of people don’t still know about us. It took me a long time to educate myself. I came from the for profit world. Um, so it is an education. Um, and that’s one of the things I love about this. So, um, that’s really as simple as it is. And I hope you guys would love to, to join us.

[39:47] We. It sounds very positive. Do we have questions from the board? Yeah, just one question about the second bullet point that says talk talks about open enrollment period. It’s usually pretty formal, uh, process at any employer.

[40:04] And uh, and then with the collective bargaining agreements that we have, you know, how easy is this, Steve, to add? And does it look like, uh, what is it? What does that look like to an employee? Um, well, I don’t know what the enrollment periods are. If there’s a qualifying event or if it’s just, you know, month. One month. Not without.

[40:21] No, I really it’s like, that’s kind of just an ask to do. Like, if you do any benefit fairs or to just have it into the onboarding of a new employee so they know that it’s a benefit, you know, like Endicott College, they they invite us to their benefit fair every year. It’s fabulous.

[40:40] So they have a huge one. So that’s all that that is just being able to let people know, excuse me. When they become an employee of the town, that it’s a benefit. So nothing nothing majorly formal like that. Okay. Yeah. And um, it extends the board and committee members as well. Oh, 100%. Absolutely. We’d love to have you..

[41:01] And yeah, I mean, I don’t I honestly don’t see the like as far as like our, um, unionized labor. I don’t think adding a benefit like this would be a problem. It’s not something I would you try to negotiate for. It would just be a give on the town’s behalf.

[41:18] Added to, um, our benefit package and could come and go, you know, we could take it away, uh, if it was, you know, no longer available to us for whatever reason. I don’t know. I can’t imagine that it would be just something if you guys didn’t want to do it anymore.

[41:33] And if there’s, you know, I, I do, um, kind of bi annual, um, not like audit. Sounds like a really formal word, but, you know, just making sure that if someone has left an employee and that’s more with people who are contributing, like, you know, we have some third party payers.

[41:51] And so you want to make sure that someone’s left, the employee isn’t still being paid for by the, uh, but this is just this is just, uh, all they have to do is send us an email from their town, email, or show me a business card or a badge or anything. So it’s pretty easy.

[42:08] And anybody who’s a member already, once we say yes, then we’ll just, um, change your memberships over. It is as simple as clicking on a discount group. So. And it’s super fun to do so. All right. Any concerns from the board? If not happy to entertain a motion? Um, I move that town of one.

[42:34] I’m moving to a partnership agreement with the YMCA of the North Shore. Um, as soon as possible. Gary. Seconds. All right, we’ll vote. Ben. Yes. Peter. Yes, Deirdre. Yes, Finn. I hear yes. All right. Motion passes. Thank you very much, Helen, for being here. Sounds great. My pleasure. I can. Get his exercise. As well. Just. I can send you some materials.

[42:59] That’s simple and easily digital. And I’m happy to partner with you guys. Have a wonderful rest of your evening. Great. So feel free to send out my way. Thank you. All right. Take care. Great. Thanks, Joe. Okay. We are going to take some items out of order to try to be respectful of people’s time.

[43:18] So the next thing that we will discuss is the barn at the iron rail site. So in the packet in the packet for tonight, there is a memo drafted by Steve, our town administrator, um, on an evaluation of the barn.

[43:39] And we did give a copy of it to the Boy Scouts so that they had an opportunity to comment. And after Steve presents the memo, um, we’ll give you some time to present your slides, which we appreciate you putting that together. All right. So, Steve, if you could, for the public benefit, walk us through the memo. And what’s transpired over the last week or so.

[43:59] Yeah. Um, so at the meeting, I’ve been two, two weeks ago, we a couple of comments about the scout barn and its condition were raised and also, you know, the question was raised that, you know, was there any ever a study done on it? In it, we’ve heard that there was one.

[44:23] Uh, so we did some digging and we did bring up one that was done in 2019, as identified in the memo. Uh, it did not align with, you know, general staff consensus as the condition of the barn. Um, and it seemed to be conflicting with, you know, the occupants of the barn and the current condition.

[44:44] So I figured the best way to do is we just, you know, uh, assembled a group of people, so, uh, Rick Souza. Our DPW director, who was just here. Mike Hardy is our facilities director. Rich Maloney is our building inspector. Uh, he’s also an engineer.

[45:03] And Kate Mallory, our land use director, and myself all went out and did a walkthrough of the facility. Um, and kind of approached it and looked at it through a, you know, a few different lenses. I think the long and short of it, without going through this entire memo, is that, you know, the barn is, you know, it’s not going to fall over tomorrow.

[45:19] Right? It’s a pretty rugged building, uh, with old timbers and things like that. But the building envelope is completely compromised, right? The roof is at the end of its life. Uh, the siding and the sheathing underneath is rotted.

[45:43] And, you know, several, among several areas, um, underneath all the windows are all rotted out. Um, there’s pictures in here and in the public packet that illustrate all of this. Uh, it’s clear, uh, in fact, insect infestation, both, uh, power post beetles and termites, there are supports in the basement that are hollow.

[46:02] You know, you can see all the little pinholes in it with a insects have gotten in. If you knock on it, it’s hollow. Um, woodpecker holes throughout the siding. We’re there eating the insects.

[46:20] Uh, and up in the attic, you know, there is weather infiltration as well as light infiltration where the the walls and sheathing are just completely open, um, with a significant amount of rodent, uh, in other animal activity up there.

[46:44] So, you know, I think the in the report probably most alarmingly highlighted, uh, the lack of proper egress, both from, uh, handicap access and as well as, um, just general egress in the event of an emergency, uh, both with the sizing, structural integrity, uh, and, um, handrails. So that was probably the building inspector’s biggest concern.

[47:07] Um, was that in, in, in the immediate concern and then further, was that, you know, the building was the envelope, you know, really the time is now to to figure out what you’re going to do with it because, you know, it’s going to continue to deteriorate significantly. Um, and, uh, you know, we need to move to either remedy or something else. And as far as the estimate. So we had asked, like for an order of magnitude. Yeah.

[47:29] So I mean, it’s hard to do without giving, you know, without actually going out to the market. But I think in a general sense, again, we’re we’re pegged to a prevailing wage. Um, to do all the windows and the, um, the sills under the windows and the rot again, like, you don’t know what you’re going to get into when you get in there.

[47:46] But, you know, roughly it was 4 to $500,000 on the low end, uh, you know, maybe even approaching $1 million. And that’s just to remedy the egress and the building envelope, make it weather tight.

[48:06] It does not address any of the interior concerns that, you know, from in, you know, exploring the to what extent the insect damage is and to what needs to be done interior wise, from weather infiltration.

[48:26] Um, and then some folks again, it hasn’t been brought up in these last couple of meetings, but last year and as we’ve discussed this over the last 4 or 5 years, the historic significance of the barn and the need to remedy it, um, in a way that is, um, I guess, historic in nature, respectful of its historic significance and replacing the siding with cedar and and things of materials similar to what was used when it was originally constructed in that,

[48:48] um, you know, could elevate the cost upwards of, you know, probably close to, if not exceeding $2 million. And that again, just you’re just remedying the building envelope and making it weather tight.

[49:08] And the other consideration is it’s currently on a cesspool, which, you know, for all practical purposes now works fine, right? There’s no leaks that we know of. Um, but however, if the load changes, meaning, you know, a change of use of the facility, uh, or, we add another bathroom or whatever, it will trigger title five compliance.

[49:31] And then similarly, if the cesspool starts to leak or, or fail, um, it would also title, uh, trigger a title five compliance in the cesspool is located within probably 20ft of the wetlands. So it would be challenging and also very expensive to go to a traditional septic leach field approach, given its proximity to the wetlands.

[49:58] I don’t know if it’s impossible, but you know, it certainly would add significantly to the cost of installing a septic and leach field. Uh, so that’s all. All right. That’s helpful to sort of orient us to where we are. Um, I think sorry. Go ahead. Finn.

[50:22] Yeah, I was wondering, we had, uh, a presentation a little while back about establishing rules about disposal of houses and structures in the town. And one of the things that we talked about was that there was going to be a hold on anything like that, because supposedly there were other options and grants and that sort of thing available to historic structures and that sort of stuff.

[50:39] And that was one of the reasons for kind of extending the those, those the, the kind of cooling off period from any disposal. Is this applicable at all. The demolition delay. And delay. Yeah. I mean, I guess it would be applicable, right? I mean, I don’t think it’s just houses, uh, but it would have to pass town meeting. It’s not in. The first.

[50:59] It’s not it’s not in effect yet. And as far as grants, I mean, admittedly, I personally have not done a deep dive, but Dodson and Klinker did spend some time looking into grants that could assist in, you know, dismantling and reconstructing the barn or building.

[51:24] And New Hampshire, uh, you know, are in the business of of rebuilding these barns and, and didn’t really meet any of those thresholds. It wasn’t old enough. Um, it didn’t I’m not I’m not really familiar with what makes a barn, you know, historic.

[51:43] But it wasn’t old enough in that you had, like, the hand chipped beams and things with the ax marks and stuff like that. So, uh, not to say that there is is not grants, but they’re not, um, certainly not readily available. And you might be able to dig and find a few bucks here and there, but certainly I would not expect them to go very far in this.

[51:57] Um, given the in given the scope of this project. And another thing to consider too, is all these remedies, like even the most inexpensive remedy will likely trigger Ada compliance. So that’s going to be, um, you know, would add a whole other dimension to this project in costs.

[52:20] All right. Initial reactions or will allow the Boy Scouts to provide their comments. And we’ll come back to this. Okay. Lindsay. Hi. Lindsay Whitman, I live at 28 Mayflower Drive, and I’m here as the representative for the Boy Scouts. I’m on the board and I’m the current treasurer.

[52:43] Um, Stephanie Wachtel, our chairperson, and Kevin King and Joe Shechtman all could not be here tonight because it’s actually a very busy night for scouting. It turns out where Stephanie is with two Eagle Scouts, um, getting their Eagle Scouts project signed off on.

[53:05] And two other Eagle Scouts are up at post currently getting, um, asking the awesome foundation for funding for their two Eagle Scout projects. We have four Eagle Scout projects coming. Wadhams Way, um, to benefit the community. Um, so anyway, they all send their regrets that they couldn’t be here.

[53:22] So you get me? Um, I want to start by thanking you very much for, you know, the open dialogue and for, uh, taking the time to review the scout barn and to come with a really clear fact base. I truly believe that having all of the information out and clear and in public view is always good.

[53:40] So we really appreciate, you know, we’re a very civic minded, oriented, community oriented organization. Um, so we really do appreciate the chance to have the open dialogue. Um, so my goals tonight are actually I will be very brief. Um, I’m not going to go through all the slides. You guys can read the detail at your leisure.

[54:00] Um, but I want to talk a little bit about the barn and the role that it plays in scouting, programming, our operations and our fundraising. I talked about this a little bit a couple of weeks ago. Um, I want to talk a little bit about what the impact of losing the barn would actually have on our scouting program and organization.

[54:18] Um, and I want to, perhaps most importantly, clarify sort of what this report means for our access to the barn. Um, most in the immediate term, um, because we are running a very active troop that has a lot going on in the barn right now. Um, things that are literally happening this week, next week.

[54:38] And we need to understand what the implications are that weren’t entirely clear in the report, at least for us. Uh, and obviously the long term as well.

[54:57] Um, and, you know, if access to the barn is not something that is, uh, available to the scouts in the immediate near or long term, I would like to ask for the town and the committees. Um, partnership and support in finding a new home for scouting. Um, because as we’ll talk about where our home is has a lot to do with our. It’s hard to actually separate the environment. And the scouting program. If you could go to the next slide, please.

[55:23] Oh, the next one. That’s just pictures of them. Um, so I talked about this a little bit the last time I was here. There’s really three categories at the barn. Really, um, comes into play with scouting. Um, number one, it is our dedicated meeting space and displaying our long legacy and history.

[55:43] And I’m going to talk a little bit about that in just a second. But it is also where we access all of our gear, hold our supplies, which is more than just like a handful of tents, like there is a lot like when you have like 20 plus

[55:55] scouts going on a two day overnight. There’s a lot of stuff, um, that gets packed in and packed out and staging areas and things like that. Um, and then the year long service that we have for the bottle bin where we process the recycling and, um, which actually raises money for the troop, it is a

[56:13] not insignificant amount of money that helps us offset costs, um, so that we can keep scouting accessible for, for all. Um, I want to talk just a little bit about that last bullet point, though. Inspires engagement through display of current and historical memorabilia. So that picture there is very intentional.

[56:29] That’s Patrick Crockett, who is just, um, honored as our our 108th Eagle Scout. Um, and Patrick is very well decorated. Standing in front of what you can see above there, not all the words are, um, some of them are cut off, but it’s, you know, it is basically the Scout oath.

[56:48] Um, a Scout is brave, courteous, kind, clean, reverent. The other ones that are cut off. My, my kids would be very mad at me that I don’t remember what it all is, but they would be able to tell you. And that’s what’s actually really important about this, right? That is on the wall. It is there every single meeting.

[57:05] They say the Scout oath, they sit underneath, they stand together in a circle underneath that we hold our ceremonies there. And the other bar, that’s the wooden bar that’s underneath there.

[57:23] It’s hard to see, but those are all of the advancement ranks and the for all almost Eagle Scouts that are out getting money to serve the Wenham community right now. Therefore, names are hanging there and they are about to move up to Eagle, where Patrick’s name has been hanging, and then behind Patrick’s head, you see a whole list of other, um, uh, wooden little tab.

[57:42] I know what you want to call them. Little pieces. Um, that’s the list of when I’m Eagle Scouts. Joe Jackman’s name is there. Like, I’ve actually found his name. And I was like, hey, that’s you. And he was like, yeah, that’s me. Um, so like the it’s not just about the history.

[57:57] I mean, it is. Right? So like when our scouts stand there and they see, like for them to actually physically move their names along the advancement, it’s really meaningful. It also is an active part of the curriculum that we really teach.

[58:18] Um, as part of, um, you know, leadership, citizenship, um, what it means to be, you know, a good person that contributes to your community. Um, so it’s not just and this is just like one slice of one picture, the entire bar.

[58:33] And I hope when you guys walk through it, you saw what was there, all of the banners, all of the ribbons, all of the all of the all the things. Right. So to lose access to that is, uh, actually directly impacts our ability to, like, teach our curriculum and our programming in addition to just the convenience of the storage space that we have there, as well as the the way that the

[58:55] scout barn has multiple rooms, you can break kids out for advancement. And Joe made me, made me promise that I would get in the fact that there was outdoor space where Cub Scouts, little kids can run around outside being kids without, um, disrupting other people.

[59:15] Um, so it just it really it’s really hard to disentangle what the scout barn has and what it means for our programming. Um, so, uh, next slide, you know, that said, like, I’m not we’re not here necessarily to, like, launch, like a whole campaign that or say that, like what you guys found is incorrect or anything like that, right? I

[59:35] totally appreciate the fact base. Um, but we really need to understand what that means for us. Um, we have a plan. We have an open house that’s planned for the 28th. Like, we weren’t sure if you guys are telling us that we can’t be there anymore, that we can’t meet there anymore.

[59:52] Um, in the immediate term, uh, and so we have advertising space in the Hamilton-Wenham News. We’re actively recruiting for this year to bring more scouts into the organization. We actually have 65 scouts between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, now, 20/20 Boy Scouts. We have grown enormously.

[1:00:11] And when I talk to other groups, when you go to these events, they’re all talking about how their scouting program is contracting. Ours is growing, which is really like unheard of. And I promise you, the barn has something to do with that. Um, because it really is not just it’s not just a building. It’s part of the experience.

[1:00:31] Um, so I would we need to understand, like what? What this means in, like, the, like, literally immediate term of, like, do we have to move our stuff out of it? Can we store stuff there still? Can we meet there? Like, we don’t really know.

[1:00:47] We met as a group this weekend and we were like, should we pull our ads from the Hamilton-Wenham newspaper? Um, so we kind of need to understand what you guys, um, are expecting from us from this report. Um, and over the long term. Right.

[1:01:06] So there’s like the immediate concern and then there’s sort of like near term and, and the longest term, Though, it’s like we have a very civic minded organization that contributes a ton to this community. Um, we want to work with you. If you know the Scout barn as it currently stands, is not a good long term home.

[1:01:22] We need a good long term home if we are going to have a sustainable scouting that we’re all very confident of. Um, so, you know, we want to work with you to do that. The last slide, we don’t have to go through the detail, but in the pre that just coming with a solutions oriented mindset right.

[1:01:38] We got together and talked about like well what are the like if we really can’t be in the barn anymore as of like tomorrow. Like what are we. You know, what are the options? Um, short term and long term across the different needs that we have.

[1:01:54] Um, and just ask that, you know, we have partnership and support from, um, the board and the town in figuring out, you know, what to do. Um, because it’s there’s a long history of scouting in Wenham, and we like to keep it that way. Thank you. Thank you Lindsay. Much appreciated. This slide particularly is very helpful.

[1:02:14] This I think, really gives us a picture of what you need. So I really appreciate that. To answer your sort of the last slide. Um, I think we don’t know yet what we’re telling you.

[1:02:33] And that’s so we’re we’re having this conversation in real time, right? As we’re also trying to process the report digested. And now we all together need to figure out what’s next. Um, so it’s not that we’re withholding anything, it’s that we’re, we’re we need to figure it out in real time, right? Yeah. Well, while until we’re going to continue using it. Until otherwise notified.

[1:02:57] Because we need to, you know, we are actively like we are a very active group and we use it, you know, multiple times a week. Um, and so we will continue to use it until otherwise notified. Um, and if there’s, you know, conversations obviously not necessarily in this forum, but if there’s conversations that we can have, um, with the select board with, you know, the town administrators to

[1:03:18] figure out the near term and the long term, like, we’re we’re here and very open to that partnership and that conversation. Yes. And that that was the intent of sharing the memo with you. Um, which is fresh, hot off the press.

[1:03:42] And to have this conversation, you know, we have to discuss this in public space. Um, but I think the work also will continue among the staff to sort of. Now, what’s next? And I think the short term versus the long term are two very different questions. Right. So I think we start addressing. I mean, I don’t think we’re making any long term decisions tonight.

[1:04:01] I think we start the discussion and figure out where we’re going and try to clarify the short term issues. And I would just say, I mean, we very intentionally broke out our needs into categories that like storage may be a more long term perfect solution than a meeting space.

[1:04:23] We recognize that those are different things with different implications, but are still very real needs that we have. Yes, that’s this is super helpful. Yeah, I do. very clear place. But we understand that that may not be the case for the near term. So can I just ask a question? Sure.

[1:04:41] Um, I keep looking at that long term scout barn replaced because it certainly doesn’t sound like, based on what Steve said, that it could be renovated, that fair? Well, I think we don’t know that yet. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think anything it’s just what’s lost. It’s going to be renovated.

[1:05:00] It’s just cost, right? You know, it’s also the location of the building and proximity to to the wetlands. Again, probably not insurmountable. It just it’s just cost. Right? I know that, um, Ada compliance, if the town was to explore the renovation route, um, you know, uh, eliminating the upstairs.

[1:05:26] Not in a sense, but not in the sense of actually taking the roof off, but, like, not allowing public access upstairs would eliminate the need for an elevator or anything like that. So that would be a significant cost savings and just needing to remedy. And maybe consolidate the egress on the first floor.

[1:05:47] Um, you know, right now there’s, there’s a number of them and they would all have to be compliant, but maybe you don’t need as many as that are currently there. Um, yeah. All that to say is it could. It certainly can be remedied. It’s just it’s just a matter of cost. So I’m just gonna ask this again.

[1:06:08] Um, I mean, it is possible to replace it and then take all of the history and the memorabilia and put it in there. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don’t. Because it just sounds like renovation. Just sounds like a nightmare in terms of expense and make it one floor. Right. So you don’t have to put an elevator. Yeah.

[1:06:28] I mean, we also put community youth center, like, it doesn’t, you know, it’s called the Scout barn colloquially because we’re the ones who use it that much. But it also like just I don’t believe anyone from football. I don’t think anyone from youth football is here. But the youth football program actually uses the barn regularly as well.

[1:06:45] It’s not the high school. I think that there might have been some. You said talk to Eric Tracy about it and it’s it’s actually the youth football program that. Uses it. So I talked to youth football in the same conversation as Eric.

[1:07:02] And they have, uh, they have additional space with their expanded athletic fields that could probably accommodate the, um, the youth sports. But do they have meetings in there or is. It they they do. They storage. They, uh, they do use it for, um, film review on Mondays. They use it for film review like they filmed the games on Sunday and then they use it for film review.

[1:07:20] So I mean, like the my point is that it is called the Scout Barn because the majority of the use comes historically from the scouting organization. That doesn’t mean that it has to be the sole use case for whatever long term solution might be the right one. We’re just advocating that there is one.

[1:07:38] , right? Yeah. And, um, so Matt Bailey has raised it a couple of times at previous meetings. This idea of, of a broader community center. Um, so I do think that that’s a compelling vision that may help us when it comes time to raise funds, basically, and convince the town, um, to invest in this. Yeah, I agree with that.

[1:08:01] Said a question. Thank you for the presentation about the bottle bin event. Could you drill down on that a little bit for us in terms of how many people, how many scouts are involved in that every month? Is it in a particular part of the barn? And I see that

[1:08:16] there’s a collection and storage aspect to it. But as far as the operations of it. Yeah, I mean, if you go back, I think it’s it’s on the two slides back, there’s a little bit more detail, but so the bottle bin is actually, um, it’s not in the barn.

[1:08:34] It is to the side of the barn near the iron rail gymnastics, sort of near the part on the edge of the parking lot. And people go and dispose of their empties there. Um, and once a month we go and we dumpster dive through them and clear them out and sort them and organize them.

[1:08:52] And if you have not done that as a scout, you have not lived as a scout parent on a on a Sunday morning. You have not lived. Let me tell you. Um, and so we so, you know, it really varies that what is convenient about it.

[1:09:07] So it’s not physically in the barn. It’s like a covered like very large. I wouldn’t want to call it like trash receptacles, like there’s like multiple trash receptacles, like in a, in a, a wooden frame that’s covered.

[1:09:24] And then on any given week we do about once a month ish, give or take, depending upon if it’s raining or whatever. But um, then it’s, you know, like ten or so scouting parents, scouts, plus parents who are there doing, processing all the stuff. We also keep a trailer park there that is part of the, um, that’s next to the bottle bin.

[1:09:44] That’s part of the scouting program used, you know, to truck stuff for, um, overnights. So that’s helpful. So the, the four categories that you’ve broken it into meeting storage space, um, historical items and awards and the bottle bin, it’s really only the meeting category that potentially presents a life safety issue for human beings.

[1:10:09] Being inside the barn, other than, you know, people that are dealing with the storage periodically. Right. And that sort of thing. I mean, you have to go in. So the the storage thing is, I guess it depends upon like the scope of safety.

[1:10:25] I mean, it’s not just like it’s not like 20 scouts are going in and like, you know, doing a pack out or but it’s not like it’s just adults, right? It’s, it’s kids to like because that’s part of what we’re teaching. But the the risk equation is very, very heavily placed on meeting space as opposed to the other three. As I see. It.

[1:10:42] Um, okay. I, I just wanted to get a clearer idea of the, the bottle bin operation. Yeah. It’s the there’s stuff in there in the barn that we use. It’s convenient that it’s right next to it. Yeah, but we’re outside when we do it. Okay. All right.

[1:11:04] I don’t want to make you stand there, but, you know, stay close. Thank you very much. You can pop back and forth. Thank you Lindsay. Appreciate it. And for all of you for meeting over the weekend to be able to respond. So clearly. We have a long term issue of figuring out what to do.

[1:11:26] Renovation, moving, building a new what that is going to look like, and how we would approach trying to fund it. But I think what I got from the report is that we can’t just continue to sort of let this play out right. We need to start making some decisions and moving towards progress.

[1:11:46] And whether that means, you know, putting an article on the warrant for town meeting in April to see if the town is willing to invest. You know, I think this is not like we put it off for another year. This is like we need to try to get somewhere as far as the short term goes.

[1:12:06] I mean, if you can summarize again, the most significant concern of the building inspector, I mean, my sense was it’s not immediate, like they have to cease operations, but some of the egress issues are significant. Do we need to move towards no access to the second floor. Is the first floor. Yeah.

[1:12:28] I mean I think the biggest from structural integrity, the second floor egress was, you know, the bottom of the posts were rotted. Um, you know, the access was was too narrow. You know, I think that moving towards, uh, you know, moving away from having a tenant space on the second floor would probably be a good move.

[1:12:47] Um, you know, and then the first floor, it’s it’s really it’s hard for anyone to say it’s really a judgment call. Um, as to, you know, how much liability exposure is presented to the town by, you know, the deficiencies in the egress. So. Right. They’ve been using it for a long time.

[1:13:12] It’s, you know, it’s it’s it’s made it’s made sense. And they’ve worked around it. But I think, you know, it’s unfortunate that we just don’t have the funding. Like the thoughts and kind of walking away and talking to Rich.

[1:13:25] It’s like, well, you know, what do you think? If we could just remedy the egress, you know, and make them all code compliant from, you know, a handicap, accessibility and also the, uh, the handrails and all the things that, you know, make it susceptible for if somebody was to fall. That it’s easy to point fingers at ears.

[1:13:46] All these deficiencies in your ramps and your stairs and all this stuff, um, you know, I don’t think Rich really saw any reason why they couldn’t continue using the first floor. Right? We pointed out some efficiency. The building is going to continue to deteriorate and rot from the outside in. Right. But it’s been doing that for a long time.

[1:14:08] And, you know, there’s probably can continue to rot for, you know, a number of years without actually impacting them using the inside. Uh, but again, I think the biggest exposure really from conversations is that it’s really just these egress the and the ins and outs, the how you get in, how you get out the handrails, the width stair heights, things like that.

[1:14:30] But the most significant one is the egress from the second floor. Yes. As far as like actually structurally compromised. Yes. Because it’s I don’t remember it specifically, but it’s exterior. Yes.

[1:14:51] If you bring up if you bring up the memo and go to just scroll to the pictures at the bottom, I can show everyone just quickly. Keep going, keep going. Pictures are. Yeah, that was it. Can we zoom back or is that the. That’s just the size of the picture. Oh, there we go, there we go. So this. So if you look at the foot on that, it’s probably the picture before immediately before immediately after.

[1:15:35] Uh no not that one. So go to the one after that. I’ll keep going. I don’t want to waste every time I go back there. Right there. So the bottom with it, with those with a, with a supports, go on to those concrete posts. Those those metal I don’t know what you want to call them. Feet are completely rotted out.

[1:15:55] They’re just kind of hanging there in the wind. Uh, and then also it looks like it has the the entryway has shifted off the landing platform on the stairway, going up like one of the supports is actually off the the concrete footer. And, you know, shift it off to the side.

[1:16:15] Um, so, you know, and the building inspectors, uh, estimation that it, it’s compromised and shouldn’t, shouldn’t be used. Do we have sorry, do we have an official. I’d like to see something that’s on a piece of paper where the inspector says, this is what I think we need to do.

[1:16:38] Um, and and, you know, this is this is my recommendation, or, you know, this is this is where we are. Are you prepared to kind of lay that out and or do you. Think I can get his opinion? Sure. But, you know, I don’t know how right he’s it’s a risk tolerance.

[1:16:57] He’s gonna probably tell you exactly what I just told you, because that’s what he told me. Um, you know, but he’s not going to tell you, like you have to do this because, you know, the code, the the way he put it is, you know, it may have been code compliant when it was installed, you know, 40, 50 years ago, but the code has

[1:17:13] changed. This is a public building, a commercial building, uh, that has, you know, people coming and going and that, you know, it opens up.

[1:17:32] It’s very, very easy holes to poke by attorneys of folks that, you know, could potentially get hurt to be like, you know, this railing, I mean, everyone knows you need to have a grab rail and there’s no grab rail or this, you know, this is hanging off the building. And you you continue to allow it to be used. Right.

[1:17:46] There’s no, like, code that he’s going to cite and be like, you have to shut this thing down because that’s that wasn’t his. You know, that wasn’t his take on it. But he did point out things I’m discussing that certainly open up some real liability for the town. Should somebody get hurt. There’s some real deficiencies there that they don’t care when it was built.

[1:18:03] It’s a public building and you’re letting people come in and out with, you know, with that, with the with, uh, you know, a landing without a handrail.. And what, uh, what, if anything, did the Iron Rail committee, you know, say about or conclude about this building? I don’t think they’ve. Yeah.

[1:18:23] I mean, well, I mean, the working group all but I mean, they, they I guess this was basically like, they just would kind of like the building is, you know, too far gone to save and to just let the new owner, if we were to sell it or lease it to, to kind of deal with it, either take it down or remedy it, do whatever they want.

[1:18:42] But are you asking about the working group or the Iron Rail commission? Yeah, I guess I’m not sure. I think it’d be from both. Right.

[1:18:56] So like, I’m, I’m a little wary about like a knee jerk, you know, in, in a, in a relatively short order go from, uh, you know, using the second floor or using the structure to stopping without, you know, some, uh, some more kind of, uh, some more voices involved in it or, or concern, um, and then from a longer time, time horizon. Right.

[1:19:19] You know, whether or not we’d have another working group that would focus specifically on the barn and, like, what sort of time frame would we have? Right. We’ve thrown working groups together on, on smaller projects and had kind of results in a month.

[1:19:37] Um, the question becomes like, what do we what are we going to do if we’ve got all these, these short and long term concerns? It’s hard to, you know, probably consider and have all the options in a, in a one one select board meeting and feel like I’m going to be making the best decision. I guess. Yeah, I mean, in part that’s what this discussion is for, is to let us know from a staff perspective what you need to make that decision.

[1:19:56] But I don’t think you’re going to get like of just a plan, a straight answer, black and white, like you must do this or must do that. It all boils down to risk tolerance. You know, these deficiencies have been reserved, observed. They’re now in writing. Right. So it’s not like you can say, well, we had no idea.

[1:20:16] Um, so now it’s just what do you want to do about it? So here’s my thought. Um, I think that building is like, just not worth saving. Um, I think we should put a small group together to figure out order of magnitude.

[1:20:42] Cost for a community center that features the Boy Scouts and where it might go. I don’t know, Lindsay. Does that make sense to you? It works for me. I mean, I think. That’s Michelle. Um. What’s up? Oh. I mean, can I comment on. Yeah. Michelle, hang on just a second. Ben’s in the middle.

[1:21:06] So, I mean, I think that’s a good concept, but where are you talking about like, this would be potentially a town building project. Initiative? Like the work. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. And meaning that the actual building wouldn’t be built for 7 or 8 years, probably. Why? I mean, look how long it takes for anything to get approved and funded and built.

[1:21:30] I’m not saying we shouldn’t do it, but but it is. It truly is a long term any alternative building is truly a long term. This isn’t like trying to replace a high school. No, I understand, I understand, but it would be. It would definitely be a longer term thing. I had a few other questions about the report. If if I might.

[1:21:47] Um, so we’ve heard about the second floor and maybe we would benefit from. And I realized that, uh, Rich is is an engineer, but I don’t know whether having a quote unquote official stamp structural engineering report of the nature that I think you are alluding to, Finn might be might be a good use of funds,

[1:22:08] especially on the areas of the barn that at least our building inspector has suggested our, um, you know, the worst off, like the second floor, because, I mean, based on what I’m reading here, I don’t think we should be allowing people up on the second floor.

[1:22:29] Um, but, you know, do we want some further analysis and further validation of that? That’s just my view. And then a few issues that were in your very excellent memo, Steve, that encapsulated all of these observations. Um, so the roof so if the roof were to fail, um, because it says the roof is at or beyond, it’s, its lifespan.

[1:22:51] So if the roof were to fail, presumably the second floor would be kind of toast at that point. I mean. We usually first. Don’t usually like least in my experience, they don’t have massive failures. Like right now. From what we can tell, it’s not leaking.

[1:23:06] Um, um, so usually it starts with a leak, right? That’s the back part of the roof is completely covered with moss and the the, um, the, uh, shingles are lifting and stuff. It’s, uh, no, it’s certainly there. Like, it needs to be replaced.

[1:23:24] I think we’re lucky that we don’t have any any significant leaks, that we know of any of these from the parts of the roof you can see. Yeah, but the risk there is mostly to the second floor as well. Yeah. If there was a serious like water event, um, seam seems like that would be the case.

[1:23:41] And then, um, it does say in the report that there is a section of ceiling below the second floor. So presumably I’m assuming this means the ceiling of the first floor. That is, um, that has some water damage. And then it further says in the report that those ceiling tiles are probably asbestos. So I didn’t know whether. Yeah. So the the water damage ceiling, uh, is in the kitchen.

[1:24:02] So it was the, uh, bathroom upstairs, the pipe that. Is from the toilet. Yeah. Yeah, it was uh, it was rotted out. So that was leaking, you know, probably sewage and water onto the ceiling. And then so the ceiling is kind of buckled. But that has been remedied. Mike. Um, Hardy remedied that.

[1:24:19] The the water damage is still there, but the the leak has been remedied. And then it was observed that, uh, it looks like the the tiles in, uh, the ceiling tiles are asbestos likely. Right. And we didn’t test them or anything, but from visual inspection they appear to be asbestos ceiling.

[1:24:39] Uh, and, you know, it was pretty clear the way it was chipping was, was it was a lot of lead paint in the building as well. Okay. Um, but it doesn’t. Is it the case that, I mean, their ceiling is the ceiling tile or ceiling tiles in the kitchen, like, on the verge of dropping from the.

[1:25:01] No, it didn’t appear to be that. It was more of just an eyesore. It didn’t look like they were just gonna collapse. And then I wondered what the Board of Health would say regarding the, uh, evidence of rodents. Yeah, I mean, that was another concern that the group was.

[1:25:18] I don’t know if you guys feel, but the air quality in there, I feel about the dampness and mold, smell of mildew and mold. But, uh, the group was, you know, that tossed the idea around. Maybe we should get an air quality study or. Or health conduct some sort of a study. But that’s separate from rodents, like.

[1:25:39] Yeah, I mean, we’ll we’ll kind of like. Right. The rodents have, like, dander and their that bathroom stuff is, you know, kind of all in the air along with the mold and everything else going on in there. Okay. But that was more in the attic in the basement, which is not public space anyways.

[1:25:59] Right? I mean, it’s it’s like important that we got this and it’s one of these things and a lot of walks of life. It’s like if you don’t know the information, you’re sort of, you know, blissfully ignorant. Now we know. And a lot of it’s I mean, it’s not good.

[1:26:18] It’s not good. So now that we know, like, we kind of have to do something about it, and I think pretty, pretty urgently. But as I think others have said, we’re not I don’t believe we’re going to vote tonight to say the building can’t be occupied. You know, uh, effective immediately.

[1:26:37] But I do think we need to, um, take some pretty swift action, probably starting with the second floor, but that’s just sort of my overall view. Michel, why don’t you go ahead? Michelle Bailey to Remington Road.

[1:27:01] Um, in recent years, there’s been a site at Pingree Park that the town also has not kept up very well. Um, and has created a lot of controversy. But it’s flat, it’s in town and it has parking. It’s the perfect location to put some sort of youth center because it puts students in the place where they’re most likely to be living in the congregated areas in downtown.

[1:27:21] Um, so if you take the tennis courts and you replace them with the youth center, you don’t have the arguments around pickleball, you don’t have the arguments around the skateboard park. Well. And and you already have land that’s flat, dry and accessible.

[1:27:39] So I think you need to look at things that the town has neglected and see if you can use them for the benefit of who they’re supposed to be for is for people to have recreational opportunities. And in this case, whether that’s youth meetings, um, civic groups and the like. That’s a very creative idea. Michelle, I, I.

[1:28:05] So we would basically create a community center featuring the Boy Scouts replacing the tennis courts and the pickleball, pickleball, which is already a problem. That’s Michelle’s suggestion. Yes, that’s pretty crazy because. Very. Very surprised if this if a community center building a structure like this with all the rules that we have to follow, I don’t think it’d be less than $5 million.

[1:28:26] I’d be surprised if it’s not ten. So this is the thing that I’m a little concerned about, of throwing away the building. If it’s $2 million to fix the building and $5 million to replace it somewhere else.

[1:28:44] This is why I’m I’m I’m not ready to vote to, as you’re saying, to, to immediately demolish or shut it down or or or basically say it’s it’s not worth saving because I think any alternative is we haven’t we even looked at it. Right. And I think it’s going to be pretty expensive. Yeah. So this is essentially we’re brainstorming. Right. So I think but I appreciate the ideas.

[1:29:02] That’s one that I would not have thought of. Kate’s here. And hearing that I wasn’t in the survey, but I think that is worth putting on the list as we brainstorm what to do with the tennis courts, as well as what to do with this site, I want to give Gary, did you want to say something? So I think you know.

[1:29:19] , two. Possible sites. Pingree or Iron Rail, someplace as far as town owned land. I’m not aware of any other possible sites, town owned currently. So, uh, if it goes other than that, it would include land acquisition costs as well.

[1:29:42] The only possibility, perhaps, if we see what transpires with Penguin Hall is acreage there. And of course, there’s the property in between Penguin Hall and Iron Rail that might become available. So I should think long term. You know, the town, uh, yeah. The the need is there for youth community that includes Boy Scouts, girl Scouts, youth sports and so forth.

[1:30:06] So I think we could start on that path as well as, um, perhaps, as you say, get a little bit more detail on cost as to, um, perhaps the second floor goes away, but, uh, we certainly a minimal cost to get the egress on the first floor fixed. I think that would continue, at least for the short term.

[1:30:31] The viability of the scout barn while we, uh, perhaps create the committee and, um, look for a permanent site. for youth activities in town. I mean, Gary, you could spec the building and just. It’ll go where we figure out it’s the best place to go. Yes. Yes. So. Matt, why don’t you go ahead? Um, just. wanted to, um.

[1:31:01] Just just your name again. And Matt. Bailey to Remington Road. Thank you. Just want to throw out an idea that would might reduce cost. Would be something that would be slab on grade and maybe pre manufactured and assembled. This doesn’t have to be a monumental building.

[1:31:18] This is a utilitarian building. And so it could be simple. It could be something that is made somewhere else and then assembled in like a double I, I hate to use this term a double wide, but the same type of construction concept and then sited on, um, sited on a slab.

[1:31:35] And then obviously it would need some degree of heating, but um, you know, the, the uses, you know, I think you could probably do some value engineering to match the uses in the building, which is, you know, it’s not it’s not a building that gets, um, the use of town hall does. Right.

[1:31:56] So people are in here all the time. It’s more of a light use, just something way to kind of figure, a way to get something that is, um, of greater value, that addresses the need, but also doesn’t need to be overbuilt. Right. Sometimes that happens with buildings.

[1:32:15] We put it on the bells and whistles. Uh, you can still be code compliant, but, you know, it could be a relatively simple building on a slab and address everything the Scouts and the Scouts are, you know, they’re out in tents. Folks, that’s not code compliant.

[1:32:33] Um, so it can be very basic and, um, not, um, you know, just something to think about if we go forward in that direction, um, there can be a tendency to, to layer requirements that really don’t, you know, don’t add any value to the youth programs. But having a place is huge value. So and thank you for all your consideration.

[1:32:52] These are hard discussions. And, uh, there’s a lot of love for that old barn, um, that you’re feeling and and just the need. So thank you. Thank you. Matt. Yes, you can come on up, Ashley, but, um, that’s also a great point. Matt. These prefab buildings that we don’t actually need to build bells and whistles.

[1:33:13] Community center. We need utilitarian meeting space. That’s resilient. Sorry, Ashley. Go ahead. Ashley Scott, parent from Hamilton. But care tremendously and appreciate all the hard work. And, uh, thoughtful conversation that’s happened this evening.

[1:33:38] Um, adding to Matt’s point, um, we have been preparing for not necessarily this acute moment, but the larger conversation at hand, especially in light of hearing, uh, the momentum around the iron rail property. One of our scout parents is an architect, and he has been really helping us with some of this creative thinking around, um, prefab and more modular spaces that could accommodate even more needs than just the Scouts.

[1:33:56] Could the Girl Scouts be meeting there as well? Could the Cubs at the same time? Stuff that would be, um, seven year olds jumping around worthy rather than a beautiful room like this. It has more architectural integrity to it.

[1:34:13] Um, echoing as well a point that Lindsay had made while we call it the Scout Barn, and while it’s been beloved to us, what we’re married to most of all is a dedicated space that can continue the program. And so we do have that openness for the creative ideas.

[1:34:34] And to reiterate the point from Lindsay’s presentation as well, the Lindsay Lindsay guided us through, excuse me, from the scouts, the three more, the four areas of our immediate needs. If we have questions around occupancy and safety, we’re open to separating those apart for, um, safety and liability concerns. Just the same, the bottle bend has much less liability concern than, um, you know, as as we’ve highlighted here, the second floor area, which I don’t believe we use.

[1:34:57] Finally, a question for you guys. Um, we have a very industrious and committed and civic minded scout troop. When we talk about the steps, don’t have handrails, we talk about our Eagle Scouts.

[1:35:16] We talk about each even at the star level where my son is, or second class working towards, uh, first class, working towards star. Now they have to do these kind of civic minded projects.

[1:35:34] Can it be a Scout project to add handrails onto steps? Can we look for other ways of engaging? We have skin in the game to make sure that in the short term, we’re able to have a place to meet, um, is are the things we could be open to doing? Um, in uh, with out circumventing the way we’re supposed to work for, uh, as a tenant of the of the space. Thank you. Ashley. Yeah, I think on the face of it, I think that’s a great suggestion.

[1:35:57] I don’t know if the scouts adding handrails complies with, you know. Yeah, I municipal. Uh, um, there’s a lot around procurement law. And also, like, you know, they’re not a licensed contractor with insurance to ensure, you know, if anyone was to get hurt and who built it, you know, if there was something that was

[1:36:18] deficient about it, you know, that would be some of my concerns off the top. I think it’s a good idea. It’s worth exploring. And I will, you know, look around and see if there’s something that could work. But my initial concerns would be just that. Go ahead, Ben.

[1:36:32] Um, so this has been a great discussion. And I think the the modular idea, to me, it seems like that’s really an important place to focus, because if we think about like, let’s say two years from now, what will we be allowing people to continue to hold meetings in the barn? I don’t know, but let’s say that

[1:36:52] we’re not comfortable with that. A year from now or two years from now. And even if there is a sound plan to develop a youth center somewhere in town, which I think is a great idea, that’s a five year, I think a five year horizon minimum before it’s actually built and ready for

[1:37:11] occupancy. So the modular idea to me seems like a really good one to, you know, to fill that interim period. And I wondered whether, um, whether there’s room on the iron rail site for any, you know, modular units of any size or if that maybe could

[1:37:30] be part of a working groups, you know, a scout town sort of working group to think about, um, like a stopgap solution involving modular units and whether they could be, you know, on the site, um, while the future of the the barn kind of remains, um, you know, unresolved.

[1:37:54] So I don’t know actually whether the, the architect, um, in the group, if, you know, if he or she is looking at particular sites where things might work or is more just looking at the design of what the modular units would be. Like, what Michelle, we were brainstorming locations. Across.

[1:38:15] Um, one of the properties, including people on the same site, right? Yes, please. Thank you. I’ll repeat that quickly. Similar to what Michelle was saying, we were more creatively just brainstorming included, and I think we hadn’t. This is before we had seen the one, two, three plan.

[1:38:35] Um, so would it have stayed in the parking lot? Would the teardrop that little teardrop be the right size? You know, I think we were working from both ends with creative thinking around different winning properties, including, as Michelle had indicated, you know, has been discussed for the, um, the tennis court.

[1:38:55] Uh, um, similarly, we were working bottoms up to say what would the right footprint be if it was a one floor again facility and with some, you know, modular dividers within so that we could accommodate either multiple groups simultaneously or the way we do our breakout sessions, etc.. So we were really trying to think, um, sturdy, lo fi and just kind of like, creative.

[1:39:14] Um, we’re happy to bring some of those ideas to an upcoming meeting. Um, if or submit, uh, if appropriate, for whoever the working group is. That there’s an addendum with sort of having an architect, there’s an addendum there of like ideal space, um, that he didn’t professional job out that we want now.

[1:39:36] And so that was our starting point. Just repeat Lindsay’s in to the microphone. We did start the ideal space ideas with what our footprint is today.

[1:39:55] And probably if we were, you know, redesigning it and we would continue to think in a modular, as Matt was saying, in the modular way, um, how we might, you know, reconfigure that space slightly differently than what the barn is today from a starting scratch. But, uh, very, uh, on the right direction. Great. Thank you.

[1:40:13] We were able to get some momentum behind that and had a, you know, a practical, I’ll just call it a stopgap plan, even though, who knows, it might end up being the plan for some period of time if it worked. I don’t know if we could get enough momentum behind that to even potentially be looking at, um, you know, even next town meeting or a special town meeting for some appropriation for modular units. You know, theoretically, yes.

[1:40:31] And that’s what I think we need to move to. Matt, I’ll let you go one more time, but I’m gonna then try to move us along. No. Perfect map. 82 Remington Road. Um, does the town have access to someone who knows grants. At the end of the table? No. I don’t know if there’s any.

[1:40:49] You know, any grant money for this type of, uh, facility, but it could also serve, as, you know, uh, an emergency center for, you know, warming or, you know, putting people in there. Um, I don’t know.

[1:41:09] I’m just throwing out ideas that might help reduce the cost, but also have an additional use in case there’s some sort of, uh, natural disaster or homeland security event that could could have some benefit to the town. Um, so just trying to sometimes it’s it’s knowing where, um, both, um, government money, whether it’s federal or state, but also, um, you know, grant writing organizations, nonprofits and things like that.

[1:41:38] So sometimes it’s like how you write it and, uh, the different uses the building could have for the town. So I just hope you can consider that. And we’re all kind of trying to get to the same place, um, and appreciate all the time you guys are spending. Thank you. Thank you. Matt.

[1:41:51] Also a great idea. I think the more uses for a building like this more compelling. The argument is right for funding and convincing the town that this is an investment that we want to make, which will, in fact, be what needs to happen to do any of these scenarios that we’re talking about.

[1:42:09] So an additional constraints. I just want to make clear is that this year, the current year’s budget is very tight. So while I wish we had funds available to say let’s deal with some of these significant egress issues, at the moment we don’t have that purse to dip into.

[1:42:30] So that’s also a constraint that we’re we have to work through or work around. Right. Um, I like the idea of the working group to start thinking through what might make it to town, meeting some kind of appropriation, or to have at least options that we start trying to present to the town.

[1:42:52] I mean, I understand your concern, Finn about, um, you know, more conclusive evidence, but I’m going to say tonight for me, this is enough for the second floor question, and I don’t think we need to vote tonight, but where I’m landing at the end of this evening is I do think we need to move in the very near future to limit or stop actually, the

[1:43:14] access to the second floor, because I think has been pointed out, you know, now we all know what we know. All of us collectively. And so we’re all in this together in terms of the liability. And to me, this egress up in the air is a significant concern and too much for my taste.

[1:43:37] That is too much of a risk. I’m just going to say that I think first floor egress is a different level of concern. Um, I think the building inspector was not alarmed at the first floor staying in use, so I don’t think we’re at the point of saying you can’t do that.

[1:43:54] That’s where again, that’s where I am right now. But this, I think, is a problem that we can’t ignore. And I, I guess I don’t feel the need to spend more money to answer this question. That’s where I land. Um, at this moment.

[1:44:14] But we did not really plan for votes tonight. Um, although we could in the agenda. But go ahead. Perhaps, uh, should we make a motion to, um, at least establish the working group to continue this work? I have the Select Board. In fact, I’ll make that motion.

[1:44:37] I move that the select board authorize a working group of interested parties to explore, uh, options for a new, uh, Scout youth community site. Second. Okay. Any comments? Go ahead. Finn, could we add on there? So it’s not just a new site or a new building, but a deeper analysis of of, you know, contrasting the cost of that versus repairing this? That makes sense.

[1:45:06] I mean, you get a you know, I hate the work groups are good. And uh, but, you know, we may want to consider, you know, some sort of like, feasibility group that, you know, similar to, you know, what the schools did with their feasibility study that’s run by an architect or some sort of

[1:45:27] building professional that we can walk away with real costs and real options instead of a groups, a group of folks that are not really professionals in that field speculating, you know, only to find out our cost estimates were either grossly under estimated or overestimated.

[1:45:51] Um, you know, I think it could help with coordination as well with the working group and kind of keeping them on the, uh, on the path. Can you educate me? Sorry on the difference between that or as opposed to basically authorizing you to, to to ensure that there’s somebody of. A cost involved, like, I mean, it’s. Like hiring a consultant.

[1:46:12] Like we’ve done the working groups and, you know, and I’ll pull together folks who, you know, I think are, you know, would be most well suited to for that project. Um, but again, a lot of times we’re just making educated guesses based on the information we have available, which isn’t a bad thing.

[1:46:32] It’s just with this, if we’re going to go to town meeting and, you know, we’re going to need to have some sort of, you know, just just like the school feasibility study, have some sort of, you know, real cost estimates and, you know, engineering, um, you know, site, um, verification or, you know, vetting to see whether, you know, the sites

[1:46:51] appropriate for whatever reason, you need to look at which I don’t, you know, I don’t really know, um, all of that. What are we doing? Are we kind of doing it twice to work twice. Right. But what what cost are we talking about? To do the cost estimate, right. Yeah.

[1:47:07] No idea. And how would we fund that. That’s. Yeah. Well no I agree I agree. The question for next time. If we do a citizens, um, working group, could we make like a, a special appeal to, um, building professionals who live in town? There are a lot of them.

[1:47:25] Um, I don’t know, maybe that could be part of the solicitation to the public. Would be people from the trades, the build, you know, building professionals have an architect on there. I mean, this sounds like there’s a I don’t know if he’s Hamilton or want to, but. You know, um. So maybe that’s a way to. I like that. That makes sense.

[1:47:47] The right membership. Yeah. That might even scope out how much money you’d have to put behind a feasibility study. You know, uh, because the feasibility of looking at a structure you have in a place that has is a little bit more contained than you know.

[1:48:03] Now, think about buying a piece of land and putting up a community center of a certain size or a certain usage, or, you know, um, you know, the setbacks from, you know, and Pingree that we’d have to comply to, you know, for some structure, for one, for two, for who knows? Well, perhaps it’s, um, the nomenclature of a working

[1:48:23] group, then perhaps what we really need is a temporary town committee to address this. All right, I’m not. That opens it up easier to, uh, more citizen involvement and bring in expertise at the no cost. Okay. Did you want to comment? I was. Just going to say before.

[1:48:48] Maybe spending money on, um, the planning, we might want to check the septic to see if it’s even possible to get that title five compliant. And that would be cheaper to just find that out first. I think that’s a good idea. Kate Rich. Um. so I, I don’t. Know the feasibility of this. But I have, uh.

[1:49:09] As we’re sitting. There, um, Aaron and I were just talking. I had plans drawn up. Um, at one point for to for a new build of 12,000 square foot, first 12,000 square foot building for gymnastics. What if the town gave us land? We put up a building.

[1:49:35] So we put up what we needed, and we made the building larger by an extra two, 3000ft. And we gifted that portion in exchange for the land. We gifted that portion of the building to the Scouts. Because we could get everything done at far less than prevailing wage, whatever.

[1:49:58] You know, I know we don’t pay $91 an hour for somebody to paint, which is what I heard. The prevailing wage is changes, but. That I don’t know. But yeah, that’s also a creative idea. So I just. Want to be careful in negotiating. Yeah. We can’t. Yeah. No. Right. I’m just. But as a as an idea. Possibility.

[1:50:19] It’s a yes. Interesting possibility. Thank you. So I think I’m going to suggest because we it’s almost 830 and we still have a lot on the agenda. So I’m gonna we do.

[1:50:41] But I think I’m going to suggest that we pause and give this some thought as to how this might be structured and composition and so forth, and actually vote it next time. How do you feel about that, Gary? Okay. The title five issue. And and perhaps we could have title five information by then or is that too fast. No. We need to hire someone. We would. Okay. It’s not an inspector. Okay. All right.

[1:51:03] So maybe not title five, but the title five is a significant issue with that site. No question. Even if the cesspool is not yet failing, it is in a wetland and no disturb zone and so forth and so on. That’s a huge issue. So just a question.

[1:51:26] Do we have the money to answer that question? Have you have the Finance Committee reserve that you could request for emergency purposes? This could be an emergency. Any idea what order of magnitude a septic evaluation? I would think around $5,000, but I could get that answer to you tomorrow. Okay. Well. Thank you. That’s order of magnitude 5000. I mean, yeah, that’s sounds pretty good.

[1:51:55] Possible, but we’d have to go through the process of requesting it with the FinCom. Um, so I’m going to suggest we all think a bit. We’ll put this back on the agenda for the next meeting.

[1:52:14] Think about working group composition, how we might sort of draw this out, what we’re going to do with the second floor. I do think we need to have some kind of vote on that at the next meeting, and we continue this. I’m comfortable with that. Yes. All right. Thank you all for being here.

[1:52:35] We will take the ion other ion real agenda item next for those that are interested in that as well. But thank you and I appreciate the Scout’s quick action in responding. Thank you very much. I think you understand we are trying to move this along, but collaborate collaboratively. We will be in this together for the foreseeable future. All right.

[1:53:02] So now we move to sorry item G, which is the continued discussion of the iron rail site. And now the question is about the potential zoning as we need to get a recommendation to the planning board to start their work. If we are to reach a goal of having zoning questions ready for April town meeting. So Kate will take us through that. Yes.

[1:53:22] Thank you for having me, Madam Chair, and the rest of the Select Board members. Um, as a quick overview, we’re looking at zoning for the iron rail site. So site one would be the zoning for the area where the iron rail building is. Site two wouldn’t really need much zoning.

[1:53:40] That can just stay the way it is in site three the housing zoning. Next slide please. All right. So tonight if you decide to move forward, um, what you’re voting on is to start the zoning drafting process. So you will be asking the planning board to draft the zoning for this site.

[1:54:08] Um, this is not making any sort of decisions on anything of this site except all is all. All it is doing is asking the planning board to go and put in, um, zoning regulations together. Um, for the indoor recreation, gymnastics, restaurants, complimentary retail or professional space.

[1:54:38] So I think that we have heard that everybody feels like that the site could handle those commercial uses and recreational uses. Um, site number two, basically in these regulations, we can put um, consideration for open space as a positive. So we will put that in the regulations.

[1:55:03] And site number three is to, um, put in a Chapter 40Y or something similar kind of single family middle income home overlay or some sort of, um, flexible development with the higher density middle income housing. So that’s all that this would be doing. And then it would be on the whole site. And then how the select board will still retain control of what happens to the site in the future, is we still have the RFP process.

[1:55:23] So, um, if you decide to move forward and do the housing and sell that site, you’ve got the RFP process. So you would be able to pick the developer, but also you can put deed restrictions on the certain sites to say, maybe you want to say, hey, in site three, we only want housing and we don’t

[1:55:45] want any commercial. That is up to you. When you guys go to the process of maybe, uh, selling site three. So you still have all the options that you’re considering going forward with these. This, um, ask for the planning board to draft the zoning.

[1:56:06] So I want to just to make sure that we all know that we’re not limiting any sort of, um, future development right now. We’re just getting the zoning down. Next slide please. So what the planning board is going to do is they’re going to drag the bylaw text, um, so they will create the bylaw.

[1:56:32] And we actually already have a draft that, um, Margaret and I have been working on, which is fantastic. And um, so we’re ahead of the game a little bit. Margaret is really great at creating the zoning map, so we can do that pretty easily. Um, we will determine the uses.

[1:56:45] And so you’ll see on the next slide what you’re going to motion for, for the uses. But it’s basically everything we’ve talked about in site one, two and three. Um, we’ll, they will create a dimensional table. So how high structures can be setbacks things like that. Um, they’ll create uh, regulations on permitting. So is it by right, special permit.

[1:57:06] Do they have site plan review? The planning board will figure all that out. Access issues, streets, stormwater, parking. Um, design. So the the planning board will get that all in a nice package for you all. Um, if they have any questions, they’ll come back to you.

[1:57:23] And, um, they really will probably only come back to you for policy related questions. Um, things like parking and stuff that won’t come back to you. Um, of course we’ll have town council review before we have a public hearing. Next slide please.

[1:57:42] So this on the left hand side would be the motion, um, of course it can be amended. But before we go through the motion, I do want to tell you kind of the next steps. So if we do move forward tonight, you are um, you will know what to expect. And so the planning board will take up in their next meeting.

[1:58:05] Um, this task and when they are done with that, probably in the beginning of January, we’ll be shooting for them to get back to you. And then you will have, uh, a select board meeting where you’ll discuss, um, the changes. We’ll have to move kind of quickly.

[1:58:22] This I know it seems like seven months is a long time to do a zoning change like this, but it’s really not a long time to do a zoning change like this. With all the regulations, um, that we have to deal with through, uh, getting a zoning change passed. So, um, we’re going to shoot for the beginning of January to get it back to you.

[1:58:38] You will make any changes, submit it back to the planning board again in January, and then the planning board will review and revise it and hold their public meeting, hopefully at the beginning of February. So we’re going to have to be on keeping on top of each other there.

[1:58:55] Um, and then they’ll submit their final planning board proposal to you probably mid February, um, to be ready for the warrant. Steve told me about a month before April. So the beginning of March, um, before you guys closed the warrant. Well, if everything works out fine, that’s the plan.

[1:59:16] We it’s our preference to get it on the warrant book, but we have had things come after the Warren book in the past couple of years. It’s not as optimal and not as informative as as we’d like, but it it’s not an absolute hard deadline, right. Yeah. That’s accurate. The I think the hard deadline is ten days.

[1:59:35] Or maybe it’s five days before an annual and ten days of special, but it’s somewhere around there. Uh, it was when the warrant actually has to be finalized, signed and posted by the constable. And then there’s no changes after that. Yeah. Seven calendar days before the annual town meeting. Okay. 14 before special. You’re right. Are you finished and done? Okay. All right. We want to make the motion.

[1:59:58] Well, hang on. All right. Gary wanted to say something. Well, I just clarify our. Are we rezone the entire property, or are we going to have three separate zones as far as the request of the planning board? Because, um, you know, it looks like zone one, we’re talking about converting part of that to commercial or business as

[2:00:26] our current. What category are we changing zone two to. So we would at the, um, regulation would be on the whole parcel. So the planning board has to decide do they want to draft a new district for that area or an overlay like the independent living overlay that’s over at Penguin

[2:00:44] Hall? Um, so that’s the first thing that they’re going to have to do. It’s on the whole district. So technically site one could have housing on it the way we’re going to write it. Site three could, site two could have commercial housing. All of these different options.

[2:01:00] But you’re in control of the parcel, right? So if you put in do a land lease you have a lease. How you want that to go if you sell the housing part, you and you definitely don’t want commercial up there, then what you do is when you sign

[2:01:18] the contract, you put in the deed a restriction that it’s only for housing, so you will have the power. But the way to do this, that will make it the easiest, quite frankly, is instead of having to do like right now, the whole A&R process and get that all done before town meeting when we

[2:01:37] don’t even know what we’re going to decide to do with the whole the whole property is to zone it. The whole. The whole process. So we’re going to rezone the whole property into a new, either new type of district or an overlay district. You got it. All right. Yep.

[2:01:51] So can you. Sorry. Can you put the map back up Michelle, please. Go ahead. Ben. So is it correct thinking of this sort of another way. So the motion would be to make all of those five, 6 or 7 types of uses by right for this entire parcel.

[2:02:12] So that depends on the planning board. So it could be by right. Yeah. It could be by right with um site plan review okay. It could be by special permit. So that’s what they have to go through in the next four months and really hammer down. Okay. But do we have a recommendation.

[2:02:29] We can have a recommendation okay. Because I think I think we would I think we would want I don’t I don’t think we would want to recommend special permit hurdles for any of these, only because it would to the extent that we have a vision as the owners of the property, what’s going to go

[2:02:46] where and what we want to go, where. To me, it would seem like we should at least encourage that these be buy right? And then the point I was going to make is it’s the kind of thing that we would probably never in a million years do for

[2:02:59] a piece of privately owned property to have that this many potential uses on a piece of private property, because then we have no control over what actually is there.

[2:03:17] But given that we’re the owners, um, it seems like it makes sense from for the reasons that you said to give ourselves the flexibility of of saying that recreation, commercial housing, um, and then the subcategories to those would all be, I think should be by right uses for, for the Iron Rail property. And then as the owner as well, hopefully be able to reach a consensus on what’s going where.

[2:03:40] Ben I think she also said that we could put deed restrictions. So right now you could put the you could make it very permissive. Right. And then if we decided to sell before we sold, we would say, yes, it does say commercial, but we’re gonna sell zone three and it’s now just housing there. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

[2:03:59] One more. Yeah. Go ahead in that list. Do we need to include municipal operations given that. The I actually in the drafted bylaw, Margaret made sure to put that in there. I had one other question about it. I don’t want to interrupt. I. I just want to clarify two things.

[2:04:19] So one is one of the things that we are attempting to accomplish through the zoning is bringing the zoning up consistent with what the current use is. Correct, because we have commercial activity on the site, it is not zoned for that.

[2:04:37] So one of the things we want to do is update the zoning to be consistent, correct? Yes. Okay. So that part I get now, the piece that I’m not sure about. So if we’re zoning the whole parcel, but it’s two different overlays. That’s what I’m confused about. How do for the question about housing and then the commercial use, they are two separate types of zoning overlaid.

[2:04:59] So it’s two separate questions. Or it’s one zoning question that includes both uses. Um, so it depends on the how the planning board decides to move forward. So either they could have the whole parcel as a district, like we have the residential district here in the business district. It would be another district.

[2:05:18] Or they could do an overlay like they have at Penguin Hall, where Penguin Hall is zoned residential. But over that property there’s this other regulation that can be done. So there are two options that the planning board are going to go through and figure out which way they want to move forward.

[2:05:37] Um, in both of those options, it will be the same thing where all every single option that we have will be available for every single site on here. Okay. That’s what I was trying to get to. Yes. This is easier than trying to subdivide between.

[2:06:03] So what I’m afraid of is we don’t know which direction we’re going in here. And we if we needed to subdivide, we’d have to do an answer, which is not hard to do. But we do need an engineer and money for to do an A&R. Um, to subdivide the property. And then they’re writing out three different regulations instead of one.

[2:06:21] So I don’t. It would be a historic. feat to do all that work in seven months. When you’re accomplishing the same thing, and it just makes it a little less labor. Us.

[2:06:44] And we couldn’t start until you guys actually have a final decision, because we need to know the boundaries of what’s happening with the iron rail building, what’s happening with the Scout barn. And, you know, the cemetery as. Well. Can we put the proposed motion back out because I said three questions about that, and then if we’re ready to take the motion, I can take a stab at it.

[2:07:11] So, um, in the second paragraph, it talks about complimentary retailer professional space. Why complementary rather than just retail or professional space? I think during the working group, I know you were on the working group, but people were really looking towards the recreational aspect and then a little cafe or spa or something like that, so we can tailor it down to that.

[2:07:29] But if you guys wanted to do more general, we can do that as well. I wouldn’t want to limit the zoning to so-called complimentary retail or professional myself. Um, since we’re I think we’re trying to cast a wide net of what could potentially be built there.

[2:07:47] And clearly recreation is going to be one of the categories. Yeah, but complementary is a pretty subjective term as well. I mean, the zoning term, as you know, would be more like accessory ancillary, which we’re not saying complementary is kind of ambiguous. Okay. And then, um, my other question was just we should include municipal in the motion.

[2:08:09] Municipal uses. Yep. And, um, is it necessary to say in the motion, Kate, that that we’re going to that we’re proposing the zoning for the parcel and it’s current configuration or as subdivided or is that not really necessary? Because you can you have zoning for tract of land.

[2:08:33] And if it gets subdivided, it’s still going to be subject to the zoning it was subject to before. I think the latter, but it doesn’t hurt to put it in. If you feel more comfortable with. That. Right. Um, do you want me to make a motion? I would. Love that.

[2:08:50] Okay, so I move that the select board request the planning board with staff and town council to prepare proposed zoning bylaw and zoning map amendments to the iron rail property at 91 Grapevine Road. The zoning should allow indoor recreation, gymnastics, restaurants, retail or professional space, preserve recreation and open space function unless later policy changes.

[2:09:26] Chapter 40Y single family homes or flexible residential development for smaller, higher density middle income housing with access for cemetery and sustainable design standards. And then I would add the zoning would apply to 91 Grapevine Road as currently configured or as subdivided.

[2:09:51] And then I would further add that the preference of the select board is that this allowable use be by right or by right with site plan review. I think probably going to end there. You oh. Thank you. We’ll just pretend I’ll stick municipal in there. Put it in for municipal indoor recreational gymnastics, etc.. That’s great. Second year 80s. All right. Are there any questions before we vote? Comments? Last comments. We good? All right, let’s vote. Gary. Yes.

[2:10:22] Finn Finn I. Peter. Yes, Ben. Yes. And Deirdre. Yes. Thank you all. All right. Thank you. Kate. Kate. That’s a. Big step forward. Yeah. You’re you’re SCA is going to be between now and Christmas. Exactly like if she didn’t already have enough to do. All right. Huge progress. That was great.

[2:10:47] Thank you, Ben, for putting that motion together. Okay, so Steve’s probably going to kill me, but we may not get to everything tonight. But I think we should do. Goals of objectives. The goals, objectives. I know the poor thing. Let’s. We need to do the annual town meeting, though. So let’s move to item D, annual town meeting and local election.

[2:11:11] All right. Somebody from the Veterans. County. No. That’s mine thing. So I’m going to put it off. Okay. Okay. This this year is I believe everyone is aware we have the option to utilize the high school as a venue for our annual town meeting.

[2:11:32] So we took a look at dates and coordinated with the vendors we need. And the town moderator. And we’ve come up with a list of dates. Last year we did for the first time, maybe not in history, but at least in, um, in recent history.

[2:11:52] The town did its annual town meeting on a Thursday night, which, you know, generally we received, you know, from residents and also from staff. Um, that it worked out really well for a number of reasons. We. So the dates that we have up for discussion are we there’s a couple things before I get to the dates, a couple of things that that complicated is historically.

[2:12:14] One of them is bylaws has their town meeting, annual annual town meeting on the first Saturday of April. That would be April 3rd. Hamilton also has there by bylaw annual town meeting on April. On the first Saturday of April, they have theirs historically at the one of high school. They always have it, you know. And again this is recent history.

[2:12:36] They always have it in the morning. And one of them has it in the afternoon. It would be difficult to have it on the same day in the same venue. Their setup is different. They don’t utilize the extensive audio visual aids that Wenham does.

[2:13:03] Um, and which would, you know, probably preclude at least some of our setup until immediately before the meeting, which would, I know, uh, make the moderator and probably staff as well, a little concern without the ability to do the extensive testing that we’re used to doing for our audio visual controls. Um, and clicker electronic voting. So all that’s to say is, is not completely off the table.

[2:13:29] But Saturday is certainly complicated. Thursday. Why why. Why are we different? Or why are we’re not the same? Yeah, well, Bill Melville’s not here, but he’s always they don’t have as many.

[2:13:53] They don’t have like the lack of a better term professional audio setup that Wenham uses, like Bob Moffat to come and has all the LED panels and displays throughout the, you know, the, um, the aisle ways and the professional microphones and everything ties in really nicely. I think they rely somewhat on HWCAM and somewhat on some of their own equipment to to kind of make do.

[2:14:13] And so if we set up, you know, say we set up Friday, you know, we would have all our panels up. But it may mean that, you know, they probably wouldn’t want us interrupting in their flow. So, you know, where our panels were set up and not utilized. They may want them taken down. And then we would have to set them up.

[2:14:28] Traditionally, we start our town meeting at 1:00. We made it to push that back to 3 or 4, and that still wouldn’t allow room for testing. Yeah, not saying it’s totally impossible, but it adds complexity to the day. That’s all I’m saying. And we do have that. Just sounds to me. Yeah. Like. Yeah, I think we can move beyond that.

[2:14:47] What’s that? Sorry. I it just sounds like, uh, Roger and his Hamilton counterpart and you and, um, sorry, I forgot his name. Um, just meeting and just talk about what makes sense. Oh, yeah. We would have to be some coordination, right? I don’t I just I’m just. I’ll just highlight.

[2:15:10] I’m just showing that. And then the the other complication is if if the board wants to explore days other than Saturday, the first, which is the Thursday in April 1st, obviously first Thursday is the 1st of April is available, but there is a school committee meeting kind of earmarked for that day.

[2:15:33] We don’t believe it to be an issue because they would have to be at the meeting anyways. And, you know, I think they can meet, they can figure out one of their, you know, monthly meetings can be off cycle as far in advance. So that really leaves the first, uh, fifth, sixth and seventh.

[2:15:52] However, the seventh being Wednesday. So it’s Monday, fifth, Tuesday the sixth, Wednesday the seventh, Wednesday the seventh is immediately before the town local town election, right on the eighth. So that would be very difficult. On the town clerk. So in our, you know, summation, it would be between the first, third, fifth or sixth.

[2:16:21] So I’m not in favor of trying to follow Hamilton’s town meeting. I think that’s potentially a recipe for chaos and trying to make sure it turns over in enough time for us to be even start at a reasonable time.

[2:16:40] I think there’s a lot of risk involved in us not having our meetings set up the way that we’re accustomed to, the way that Roger is looking for. So for me, that’s sort of the my least preferred option. I do think the Thursday meeting worked well last time, and having it at the high school, it’s much closer proximity to at least, you know, downtown Wenham.

[2:17:00] Um, that’s where I would land, though the first does definitely makes it sooner in terms of the production of the warrant and backs up the timeline. But I think distancing it from the election and not trying to jam it in the same space. After Hamilton is sort of the best option before us.

[2:17:24] So the eighth for the election is not a hard day either though, right? That could be shifted one week. Or yeah, we’re not. So Hamilton’s the eighth is they don’t the Select Board doesn’t have the ability to move their election date. They can move their town meeting date, but they can’t move their election. Okay.

[2:17:42] We can move our election date. But the way our school committee is elected, it really would be not. It hasn’t been recommended to me to not try at all. The all costs. Keep the. If you’re gonna change the dates, keep the two local elections on the same. Right.

[2:18:02] So it sounds like the, uh, Thursday the first. So the we’ve schools are good as far as setting up. We’ll have the. Yeah we got to confirm. Right. So if that’s the preference and I don’t foresee it to be an issue, but I’ll, I’ll contact Eric and Dana.

[2:18:20] Lara and you know there that was like the one caveat was like, yeah, it’s the high school is available on the first, but there is a school committee at the Booker, you know, on their calendar because they probably pencil them in for the whole year. Um, and they tend to not try to host two large things at once.

[2:18:38] But I think that given that it’s our annual town meeting and they’ll be there to present their budget, I don’t think that’s going to be a problem.

[2:18:53] So last year, we got a little bit of pushback from some members of the public, um, about not having it on the Saturday, given that the bylaw says that I don’t know the exact language, I don’t know that it you know, absolutely mandates it, but it certainly says that it’s the preferred. Um.

[2:19:15] Yeah, I think I think it says the, the they, they will or shall have it on the first Saturday of April unless you announce it prior to December 31st. The change of date. Okay. Then state law allows. The select board to change, standing notwithstanding the town. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[2:19:33] But at the time, I forgot that the town bylaw had that December 31st, which last year we were weren’t able we couldn’t meet that and there were extenuating circumstances that I think that’s right justified it. But okay. So if we decide now or before December 31st, then we’re copacetic with the bylaw. Okay. Rochelle. Michelle Bailey to Remington Road, author of the bylaw, um, that you were referring to with town council. Um, Paul Weaver.

[2:20:09] Um, and part of the issue last year that people myself was upset is that you changed the date after that specific date. And Paul and I had worked very hard at finding a date that we thought was reasonable. That also allowed people to make plans. And your lateness may have interfered with people making plans. So that was one thing.

[2:20:34] Um, I am unclear as to why we’re moving from Buker in the 31 plus years I’ve lived here, there’s been two times when we’ve had extremely large town meetings, and only once that it was too big. Um, and so I don’t really understand why we’re moving. I find that crazy, to be honest with you.

[2:20:59] Um, and while I agree, moving to the high school is an option, I kind of feel like it should be in one of them, but I feel like holding it at Gordon was inappropriate because it alienated some people of the community who didn’t feel comfortable going there.

[2:21:16] So as you make these decisions, I hope that you will try and keep in mind the bylaw. Um, and what Steve said about the elections. The other point I would point out is the elections do not have to be held after the town meeting. They can be held before. Thank you. All right. So thank you for your comments.

[2:21:36] We did have some extenuating circumstances last year. As you may remember, um, where we did not have good options in front of us. And Gordon College became the, um, best option of what we had available. However, we did approve a town meeting that the high school is an appropriate location.

[2:21:58] And although I also would prefer that we had a large space in Wenham, I think the concern remains, um, that we may have outgrown that, given the questions that are coming before the town and current times, and we do not want to risk having the situation where people were not able to get in.

[2:22:19] So I’m still I’m still reluctant to risk that again, which is why I think why we’re focusing on the high school as our best option. Um, again, the night is not ideal, but I think following Hamilton is too risky as well.

[2:22:42] And the last thing we want to do is create more disruption for people in the town to come to a meeting that they expect to start on time, then doesn’t, or there are too many technical difficulties that we’re not able to vote, can’t hear, and so forth and so on. That to me is also too big of a risk. Yep. So we’re going to do the Thursday.

[2:22:59] Yeah. In the morning. Maybe we can I mean we can vote, but then, uh, Joe just reminded me that Diane. Yeah. Michelle reminded Joe. That reminded me that we need to we need to also elect a, uh, or select a alternate date. So backup date.

[2:23:24] So maybe it could be the, you know, unlikely we will need it, but maybe it could be the Monday or Tuesday of the following week. Okay. So is the preference to vote at tonight or. express the preference tonight so that you can check with the school. That’s the one. Okay. So we’ll wait. So we’re not going to vote it tonight.

[2:23:43] I mean you could vote but we’re the one outstanding question is whether the school committee can make it work, which it’s like I’m 99% there. I can’t imagine I’m not. But it’s like I can’t I couldn’t get the exact answer for you in time for tonight. So do we want to vote to recommend? Yeah. So I.

[2:24:00] Think we should. Then you. Want to just vote to select and then it doesn’t have to come back. Right. If there’s no problem it doesn’t have to come back to you guys. There’s another agenda item. And if there is it’ll come back and amend the vote. The only reason I’m hesitating is completely personal.

[2:24:18] Calendar issue where I don’t I need to check whether I’m in town on April 1st, which wouldn’t drive ultimately the decision. But, um, I don’t know the disappointing. If you weren’t though. Yes. And we need a backup date. So of the three other dates, the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. I heard the Wednesday is not preferable. Correct.

[2:24:43] That’s Monday or Tuesday. I’m indifferent between those two. Come Monday. Monday sounds good. It’s my sister’s birthday. I need a motion. We do. Need a motion to propose the first and back up the fifth for the town meeting. So yeah, just maybe a little more formally.

[2:25:09] So, uh, I’ll make a motion to, uh, to set the annual town meeting for, uh. What is it? April? Thursday, April 1st of 2027, with a backup of, uh, Monday, April 5th of 2027. Seconds. All right, we’ll vote. Gary. Yes, Ben. Hi, Peter. Yes, Ben. Yes, Deirdre. Yes. Okay, so you will come back if there’s an issue.

[2:25:37] That. So? We have no idea what. I believe we typically do. 6:00 or typically we did 6:00. Mm. Everyone comfortable? Yep. Yep. Well, do we need to check with the school? You know, if we gotta make sure we have setup times and stuff. So. Yeah, he’ll have to check all that. Yeah. So I’ll leave it at 6:00.

[2:26:03] That’s what we did last time. Um, but yeah, I’ll confirm if it doesn’t work out, we’ll be back. All right. Well, you can. Sorry. You can confirm with us either way what the result is so that it’s clear to all involved. Okay.

[2:26:25] All right, so what’s left on the agenda? And hopefully Steve doesn’t object, but I’m going to suggest again we hold on the goals and objectives. I’m going to hold on the veterans gallery, which is an idea that I have. And but it’s just an idea at the stage.

[2:26:39] So I’m going to suggest we hold both of those and perhaps just end with the Penguin Hall update. If people would like to hear that this evening. Okay. Yes. Good. All right. Go ahead. Steve. All right. Thank you, Madam Chair. It is just a quick update. There’s been a couple articles in the paper regarding Penguin Hall.

[2:27:01] So the chair and I figured it was, you know, suitable to provide the community with an update on where things stand from. From our perspective, I do just want to highlight that, um, the town has not, um, moved forward with the foreclosure process. Uh, we’re not in the process of trying to take the property, uh, through tax title.

[2:27:21] We have perfected a lien. The lien was perfected on 910, and it was filed at the registry today. This morning on 922. And what that does, is it protects the town and its residents.

[2:27:41] Really? Because the residents, you know, in effect, will have to subsidize that back taxes if the town is unable to collect it. It gets ourselves in line from, um, for if the town if the if the property is transferred or and or funds become available through insurance or whatever, various competing interests of the property that require some sort of clear municipal liens, uh, it ensures the town has is in

[2:28:06] line with a lien in place that will get the town’s um, residents taxpayer dollars back. So that I just wanted to clarify the foreclosure process. The tax taking is totally separate from this. Uh, you do need to have a lien in place to move forward with that process, but it is a totally independent process.

[2:28:31] It can’t take place for a minimum of 12 months from the date the, uh, lien was filed with the at the Registry of Deeds, which is 12 months from today. Um, you know, the select board and, uh, the town’s, uh, finance staff continue to monitor the, the situation, but the plan is not to move forward at this time.

[2:28:50] And, you know, it has to be 12 months anyways. So with that, uh, a couple of other points, the this was brought up at a prior meeting and also Deirdre, uh, brought this to my attention, uh, after the, uh, police blotter was in the paper about, uh, some generators running up there and a white

[2:29:11] van, and, you know, people working in a barn that’s up there. So we had, uh, the police, the two police chiefs. Uh, excuse me, two police chiefs, uh, the police chief, the fire chief, uh, go up there.

[2:29:30] Uh, they met Al and Molly Martins, and, uh, did an inspection of the property, both from the, you know, police standpoint and from, uh, fire. They, um, generally gave it a a clean bill of health as far as safety concerns. Right. There was generators up there, but they were stored appropriately. Uh, fire canisters were stored appropriately.

[2:29:52] The police are going to continue to monitor, as they have been for any criminal activity. And, uh, they did highlight that they need to get the, um, one thing that working with the police chief, fire chief, excuse me, is working with the Martins to ensure that the power is get turned back onto the building so that the fire alarm systems can operate, because right now,

[2:30:12] those are not operational. So continuing to work with them. But other than that, um, you know, they they it is in good standing from a safety perspective as far as outstanding balances.

[2:30:37] Uh, the Penguin Hall owes the town through past from past due real estate taxes, water bills, um, soccer field uses and excise tax. Uh, about $293,000 and all, but about 22,000 of that is through, um, well, mostly real estate, but about two about 3000 of that is water.

[2:31:06] And those two, I highlight those because those the water utility bills can be leaned on the tax bill due to, uh, non collection. So those can be remedied through the lien that we just discussed. The soccer field. However excise tax uh, we you know, we really don’t have any sort of teeth like the lien process to go after that.

[2:31:23] They use the the iron rail soccer fields for the last six years. Um, they owe us about $21,000 for those uses. We don’t anticipate getting getting paid that. And, um, also, there is a number of. Uh. Uh, excise outstanding excise tax bills, uh, totaling about $1,100. So again, you know, we’re just continuing to monitor it. We filed the lien. And that’s really all we can do at this stage.

[2:31:54] And as far as we know, it is not public who purchased the property. We don’t know. We have no, we don’t know. I mean, we’ve heard through folks that were at the auction that, um, the Martins have purchased the property.

[2:32:17] However, we we have no official documentation that says who, who the property who the new property owner is. I do know it has to close within 45 days of the auction, which was, what, a week or two ago? Um, but until then, we’re just not sure. We could. Ask, couldn’t we? Couldn’t we as a as a board, ask the auctioneer or the Martins those questions. I mean.

[2:32:39] Their answers to them. And I wouldn’t think that they should be confidential. Um. I don’t know. Is that a thing you can do. As a as a board? You can. I think we could make information, request to the people that have knowledge of who the prospective buyer is.

[2:32:58] They might they might tell us to go pound sand, but we you know, I think we have some standing as the executive body of the town to ask the question. Sounds good to me. I’m curious. I’m not sure how it changes.

[2:33:15] Uh, what what kind of response I get. I’m not about to go and ask them a zone change there. No. It just might give us some clue as to what the future use might be, but. I’m fine with asking if you think that’s doable.

[2:33:33] Yeah, I mean, there’s certainly no legal impediment to us asking the question. There may also be no legal impediment to them declining. Not answering. But. And then I don’t know if that’s something that there’s a consensus about. Who I can do. I’ll ask and shoot Molly an email or send a letter, see, I know the auctioneer has been asked.

[2:33:51] Right, Tim, did you ask the auctioneer as well? And they’ve declined. Yeah. Well, it doesn’t mean we can’t ask. Yeah, we can ask too. Yeah. No offense, but they might. They might. Be more likely. To tell you. Tim can be scary, though. No.

[2:34:13] And then I had one question regarding, um, Chief Kavanaugh’s, um, statement to the Martins that they should make sure that the smoke detectors are working. Do we know whether there is power to the building or if that’s been cut off? And. Oh, it does not have power. He said he was in the email.

[2:34:30] It says he’s going to check back with Molly Martins in two weeks, which is the end of this week. And get a status update on when the power will be restored. I get below freezing pretty quick. I wonder if they’ve winterized the building, but that’s gonna mean a lot of sprinklers that’ll, Have Fairpoint. Fill the air. They might be filled with water.

[2:34:49] Oh yes. We don’t want to run the water bill up further. That is a good point, given that it’s not been paid, but nor do we want fire hazard up there, which is a risk to the town. So I think keeping tabs on this closely is warranted and appreciated.

[2:35:13] And I think public updates, um, we should continue as well. I think everyone has a right to know. Is that what was the question? Is it? I don’t know. Question was how is it. Yeah, I don’t know what their heat is. I mean, I think even if it’s oil or gas, you probably need some electric ignition or circulator pumps or vans or something like that.

[2:35:37] So I’m guessing, I’m guessing there’s no heat or ventilation up there because I know they were running. The reason for the generators were running dehumidifiers. Um, to remove probably some of the humidity that would have typically been removed through the air. Handlers in the outdoor air exchange. Okay, I think we’re gonna stop there for the evening.

[2:36:04] Do we have a motion to adjourn? I’ll make a motion to adjourn at 9:06 p.m.. Do we have a second? Second? And all in favor? Yeah. I thank you, everyone, and good evening. Yeah.

Wenham Select Board 9.22.26

Transcript