[0:38] Thank you all for coming out tonight. We have two items that we're going to consider tonight. You're going to hear this from our moderator also. We're not here to vote. We're here to discuss these two items. Ask questions, learn a little bit, and then they'll be a vote on both these items. And you'll hear the question tonight that you'll be asked to vote on on September 29th from noon to 6 p.m. on noon to 8 p.m.

[1:08] at the high school. My name is Carl Fortuna. I'm the first select bin and right over here

[1:14] in the first row, we have Scott Geeger, it's select bin, and Jane was Lovsky, select bin.

[1:20] And the first item of business is to stand if you're able to for the pledge of allegiance.

[1:29] I pledge allegiance.

[1:50] Okay. Next item of business is to select and elect a moderator for

[1:56] evening.

[1:59] Yep, Colin Hepernin, moved by Scott Giggert, who is her second, by Ms.

[2:05] Wislowski, any other nominations, hearing none, all those in favor of Colin Hepernin

[2:12] as moderator this evening, signify by saying aye. Any opposed? Hearing none, Colin, I'll

[2:20] turn it over to you.

[2:28] Good evening everyone. I'm happy to serve as moderators tonight to try to make this run as smooth as possible as as Carl indicated there was no action going to be taken tonight at the end

[2:40] We'll adjourn to the referendum that will occur later this month on the twenty-nine

[2:48] So here we're here to talk we're to listen we're to ask questions we're here to get answers and that's really what this is all about

[2:54] about dialogue and learning.

[2:56] So with that being said, I think my first order of business here

[2:59] is Madam Clark is to read the call.

[3:13] The lectures and those persons eligible to vote

[3:16] in town meetings of the town of El Sabre Connecticut

[3:19] are hereby warned and notified that a special town meeting

[3:22] would be held in the El Sabre Smith School auditorium,

[3:25] 60 Chef Field Street, El Sabre Connecticut,

[3:28] on Wednesday, September 9,

[3:30] 2,026 is 6 p.m. for the following purposes.

[3:34] Item one.

[3:34] As recommended by the Board of Selectment and Board of Enance to discuss a resolution,

[3:40] A, to appropriate $6,200,000 for the demolition, construction, and reconstruction

[3:46] of the Department of Public Works Garage, the project.

[3:51] B, to finance the appropriation by issuing the town's bonds or notes in an amount not to exceed

[3:58] 5,200,000 with a balance funded by capital funds currently held by the town.

[4:06] See, to authorize the first select man and treasurer to issue the bonds, notes, or temporary notes.

[4:13] D, to take action under applicable internal revenue service regulations, to allow the town to issue the bonds, notes, or temporary notes on a tax exempt basis, and E,

[4:27] To authorize the first document to contract with engineers, architects, contractors for the project and to apply for any federal state or other grants in aid or other funds for the project and to accept or reject any grants on behalf of the town and F.

[4:46] To authorize the Board of Selectment to a point or re-appoint a building committee for the project and to authorize the building committee to approve the design,

[4:55] construction and renovation expenditures and to construct the project.

[5:02] Item 2.

[5:03] As recommended by the Board of Finance and Board of Selective and to discuss a resolution

[5:08] A, to appropriate $11 million, $300,000 to renovate and construct an addition to the

[5:16] Katherine Hepburn Cultural Arts Center project.

[5:20] be to finance the appropriation by issuing the town's bonds or notes in an amount not to exceed

[5:28] 6,300,000 with the balance funded by grants and capital campaign funds.

[5:36] See, to authorize the first selectment and treasure to issue the bonds, notes or temporary notes.

[5:42] D to take action under applicable internal revenue service regulations to allow the town to issue the bonds, notes or temporary notes on the tax exempt basis.

[5:56] E to authorize the first selectman to contract with engineers, architects, contractors for the project, and to apply for any federal state or other grants and aid or other funds for the project.

[6:09] and to accept or reject any grants on behalf of the town,

[6:13] including private donations.

[6:16] F. To authorize the Board of Selectman,

[6:19] to appoint or reappoint a building committee for the project,

[6:22] and to authorize the building committee to approve the design,

[6:26] construction, and renovation expenditures,

[6:29] and to construct the project.

[6:32] Copies of the full text of the resolutions are in file,

[6:35] available for inspection at the office of the town clerk.

[6:39] The moderator shall adjourn the special town meeting at its conclusion, and the above

[6:44] item shall be submitted to a referendum vote on the voting tabulators or paper ballots

[6:49] by town electors and qualified voters for approval or disapproval.

[6:54] On Tuesday, September 29, 2026, between the hours of 12 noon PM and 8 PM.

[7:02] The resolution shall be placed upon the voting tabulators or paper ballots under the following headings.

[7:10] Question one.

[7:12] Shall the town of Olsaverac appropriate $6,200 for the reconstruction of the Department of Public Works garage

[7:20] and authorize the issuance of the town's bonds, bonds, or notes, in an amount not to exceed 5,200,000.

[7:28] to for now.

[7:30] Finance, said appropriation with a balance funded by capital funds currently held by the town.

[7:36] Votes approving the resolution will vote yes, and those opposing the resolution will vote no.

[7:44] Question 2. Shall the town of olsabric appropriate $11 million, $300,000, for the Katherine Hepburn

[7:52] cultural arts center addition and renovation and authorize the issuance of the town's

[8:00] bonds or notes in amount not to exceed six million three hundred thousand dollars to

[8:05] finance that appropriation with the balance funded by grants and capital campaign funds.

[8:13] Voters approving the resolution will vote yes and those opposing the resolution will

[8:18] no. Town electors will vote at the Old Sabre High School gymnasium. Boston Post Road,

[8:26] Old Sabre Connecticut. Persons qualified to vote in town meetings who are not electors,

[8:33] shall also vote at the Old Sabre High School gymnasium. Absentee ballots will be available

[8:39] from the town clerk's office. Sign Board of Selectman Carl P. for Tune of Junior First

[8:45] elected, Jane was a lousky and Scott Giegrich Selectman.

[8:51] It's dated at all, say, but Connecticut is 11th day of August,

[8:54] 2,026, a test, Sarah Becker Town Clerk.

[9:00] Thank you.

[9:08] Sure.

[9:09] So we will, I will entertain motions that to open discussion,

[9:12] as regard to item one, as recommended by the Board of Selectman and Board of Finance,

[9:16] to discuss a resolution, most notably, to appropriate six,

[9:19] $6.2 million for the demolition construction and reconstruction of the department of public works garage and the project and be to finance the appropriation by issuing towns bonds or notes in amount not to exceed

[9:31] $5.2 million or the bounds funded by capital funds currently held by the town.

[9:37] Motion.

[9:38] Second, Jane.

[9:39] Thank you very much.

[9:40] Carl, turn it over to you.

[9:41] Thank you.

[9:41] Thank you, Colin.

[9:42] And so I built, why don't you clap here to Bill Claffey is our Department of Public Works Director.

[9:50] We also have our architects, point one architects to my right, and they're going to go over this project a little bit.

[9:56] What we're proposing to build, the DPW Garage is by all accounts, old, in at least 60 years old.

[10:06] And we've made some patches to it over the years.

[10:10] The most of you are, even these guys, it's a tough place to work.

[10:18] I mean, it's a tough job, but the environs of the garage itself are probably not appropriate

[10:26] for 2026 employees.

[10:29] What we're proposing is to give them an appropriate locker room, shower, a kitchen, a

[10:36] conference area, office for the director,

[10:41] and probably most importantly coverage for our equipment.

[10:46] So we've really made a large investment

[10:49] in our public works equipment, which serves the public.

[10:54] Over the last few years, we put aside money every year

[10:58] in a capital account, and then we make purchases on that.

[11:01] We recently made a purchase, in fact, a week or two ago

[11:05] of a freight land or truck. We now have three of them. They're dump trucks. They do the

[11:10] plowing in the winter and they serve as very useful machinery all the other times of

[11:17] the year also.

[11:21] The trucks that the three trucks that we replaced just to show you the good

[11:26] value that we're getting out of our trucks. I think the truck was in 1991 that we got rid of.

[11:34] We got rid of a 1992, 93, and the one that just was recently replaced was a 1995.

[11:41] So we've replaced them now with 2025, 26 models of these trucks.

[11:46] But we have a lot of other equipment that we've been buying over the last few years to

[11:52] help make these guys jobs more efficient and effective for the public.

[11:57] So, after the 2025 budget results, so that's June, the budget year ended June 30th, 2025,

[12:08] the town had a pretty healthy surplus in, at the recommendation of the Board of Finance,

[12:15] we put aside $1.5 million to start this project.

[12:20] That $1.5 million was intended to get the architect started, to pay some of the soft

[12:26] So we can continue to move this project forward prior to getting to referendum.

[12:32] That is why it's a $6.2 million project, but we're asking for $5.2 million.

[12:42] The remaining funds will be used to obviously offset the capital cost of the building.

[12:48] The additional 500,000 that is the Delta there is to pay the architects furnish the building

[12:55] with conference tables, IT security, and the like.

[13:00] So that is what we've done.

[13:02] And you're going to hear the same thing with the K.

[13:04] There was a 6.3 million dollar ask,

[13:08] but it's an 11.3 million dollar project.

[13:12] So that's coincidence that it happened that way.

[13:15] That boy, Patrick, certainly funded like this.

[13:17] But with the public works garage, it was from surplus funds

[13:20] from fiscal 2025 that we put aside for this project.

[13:28] So, obviously one of the huge advantages is to cover the equipment.

[13:36] We have a lot of, like I said, we're equipment that we want to be covered and we're not covering it right now.

[13:44] The other important piece of that is, as many of you know, that area is wetland, lot of wetlands, and aquifer.

[13:51] The transfer station sits on an aquifer, maybe that wasn't the best planning 60 years ago,

[13:57] but that's where it is.

[13:59] So, the public workscarages in a similar situation, we have to have the groundwater monitored

[14:05] there by our town engineer, I don't know, two, three, four times a year, to make sure that

[14:11] we're not leaking oil or other fluids from the machinery into the ground and then into the

[14:17] ground water. Having the machines covered, all the equipment covered is going to help from

[14:24] an environmental perspective also so that we'll have nothing seeping into dirt and then

[14:31] into the ground water, it will go through drains and then into a basin that if it needed to

[14:39] be will be emptied. So that's kind of the intro to the project in terms of cost, how it's

[14:46] funded. These are 20 year bonds that we're proposing. Before we get into some questions, I would

[14:52] like to have point one architects go over what is we're hoping to be the project for DPW.

[15:06] My name is Greg Nucci. Can everyone hear me?

[15:16] My name is Greg Nucci, I'm with 0.1 architects. I'm here to introduce you to our design for the public works garage.

[15:34] The next few slides are kind of existing conditions slides of the existing public works facility.

[15:44] Yeah, sorry, so you get a chance to kind of see the condition of what the employees and staff are working with.

[15:56] There we go.

[15:57] This is much better.

[16:00] A few more comfortable this way.

[16:03] So it is located off the middle of this turnpike and is turned into the driveway.

[16:08] What you see on the top left slide is a building

[16:12] that is more recently constructed and that's the repair garage that they use right now and then

[16:18] as you drive a little bit further down the middle photograph kind of shows you the existing

[16:24] condition of the public works garage as it is right now and it's tired I guess for lack of

[16:32] better words for it. It's been late Carl said it's been cobbled on to over the years. The actual

[16:39] the larger portion of the building, we are going to keep and renovate that because structurally

[16:46] it's sound, it's got great walls, it's got a good steel structure, but we are going to

[16:52] renovate that as well as part of the renovation and additions.

[16:58] So in the little rendering and

[16:59] the left-hand side, the right side there, we're proposing that whole piece come down.

[17:08] That's the

[17:09] a dollar kennel that had been there for years, but it since has been moved to Clinton and

[17:17] Carl can speak to that afterwards, but that's the plan for that, so the condition of the

[17:24] building is poor. The next slide is kind of the existing conditions plan that shows the spaces

[17:32] as they currently exist, so you have the yellow section that's kind of the garage we're going

[17:36] try to keep. And then the dog pounds at the top and then the public works facilities. There's

[17:43] like one office in there, a break room that's really inadequate. There's only one bathroom in that space

[17:50] and rarely a natural lighter windows in that space as well. And then the purple section is kind of

[17:56] the wood structure that was just been added on to over the years and it's in very poor shape as well.

[18:05] So, you're going to go to the next slide, please mark.

[18:09] And this is just some photographs of the interior condition that the guys are working in currently.

[18:16] We've got some, well, a lot of roof leaks.

[18:19] We've got some looks like there's some mold on the walls inside from water penetration.

[18:26] And then the large floor plan just kind of shows you what they're currently working in right now.

[18:34] You know, the next slide, please, Mark.

[18:37] And then Bill, Bill and Carl spoke a little bit about the public works fleet of vehicles that they have.

[18:49] So out of the 22 vehicles that they do have 25% of those are kind of left out doors because they don't have the space to keep them inside.

[18:57] So that's kind of the impetus to get some of these vehicles inside, because, you know,

[19:04] think about it if they're outdoors in the weather and the snow and the freezing, it just takes

[19:10] a toll on these things for maintenance and everything else.

[19:13] And I think you'll get longer lasting investment if you can keep these vehicles in a condition

[19:19] space where they have constant temperature, they can be worked on and they're not just left

[19:25] that in the cold.

[19:29] And the other part of this that maybe Carl mentioned a little bit

[19:33] is just having, you know, for emergencies

[19:35] having readiness to these vehicles that, you know,

[19:38] are covered with snow or tarps or whatever,

[19:41] during an emergency, I think that is a huge asset

[19:45] to have in the town, especially with a weather

[19:48] crazy weather that we've been seeing over the last few years.

[19:54] But anyways, they do have a large fleet of vehicles and we'd like to get them indoors, so let's see.

[20:02] So this is the proposed floor plans.

[20:06] And we've been working with Bill Claffy and public works to help design this.

[20:12] So the existing storage building in the yellow, that's the one I spoke to you about previously.

[20:17] That's the one we're going to repurpose and reuse and then the blue section across the front is the three bay high bay garage addition

[20:29] that we're proposing

[20:31] it has some

[20:34] Toolcribbs and things like of that nature on the left hand side and then the public works facilities in the pink up there

[20:42] that's kind of the employee staff areas where we have locker rooms, adequate locker rooms,

[20:49] adequate showers, adequate bathroom facilities. And part of that is also as a meeting room

[20:55] in a lunch room where I think operationally, they can have meetings, building out meetings with

[21:01] this staff, and then there's a few offices in there as well, one's bills office, and then

[21:11] some mechanical spaces and things of that nature.

[21:16] You can see, as part of the renovation, the entire building will be insulated according to

[21:22] the Connecticut Energy Code,

[21:25] so we won't have any cold space, it'll be tempered.

[21:28] The garage space won't be cooled, but it'll have heat in the winter.

[21:33] The facilities for the staff will be heated and cooled air conditioning in there, so there

[21:40] is one large beam that we have to put in, which is a little bit of a challenge, but it's

[21:46] doable to create that open space where we're connecting the garage to the existing garage

[21:53] there. You can go to the next slide, Mark.

[21:58] This is a rendering of the front facing addition.

[22:04] That kind of shows the new three-high-big garage, and you can see on the back side, there,

[22:10] there's the the public works staff area and I have a better drawing of that.

[22:16] But anyways, the whole building gets, it'll all be metal-sided, it'll be completely insulated.

[22:24] The building will also be fully sprinkled.

[22:27] That's required by the...

[22:30] By the building code in the fire code, so your equipment, the town equipment, that's within that building. We'll have another layer of protection.

[22:39] So you're going to want to protect your investments, so that's another layer of protection that is part of the project.

[22:47] And then you can go to the next slide just because it kind of shows.

[22:51] So, this is kind of the end elevations showing the entrance to the public works administrative area where Bill's staff has the launch room and the conference room and the showers and all that.

[23:05] So, that's kind of the entrance. It's accessible through just the sidewalk down the side of the building. Next slide.

[23:17] This is kind of an aerial view showing the addition and the entrance to the right as well as the buildings that exist on the left-hand side.

[23:26] That kind of big block thing in the middle.

[23:28] That's a fueling station for all the public works of equipment.

[23:32] So that's staying where it is.

[23:34] That's not moving, so.

[23:37] So that's really our design presentation for the project, and I'll give it back to Carl.

[23:48] Just a brief couple comments briefly.

[23:53] So the dog pound has been there for many years.

[23:57] It is not compliant with current animal control guidelines at the state level,

[24:05] But it is grandfathered in, so we still do use it.

[24:10] But we do not.

[24:11] I talked to the chief of police about this.

[24:13] We don't get a ton of animals periodically we do.

[24:17] So Clinton has a new, much newer, compliant,

[24:23] animal control facility.

[24:25] And I spoke with the chief of police.

[24:27] I spoke with a few other people and makes sense

[24:31] to try to do things regionally, right?

[24:33] we all don't need to do everything in our towns. There's a couple other efforts underway to

[24:41] maybe seek efficiencies with other towns, but this would be one of them. So the dog pound

[24:47] in Old Sabre would go away in dogs that are dogs or other animals that are found in a place where

[24:58] they shouldn't be would be taken to the Clinton animal control facility.

[25:03] Just want to stress that as Greg said, we are reusing part of the building.

[25:10] We're not turning down the whole building.

[25:12] We're just extending out the area where the heavy equipment was, extending it out, but

[25:18] the area where the offices were in the animal control facility is being demolished and rebuilt.

[25:26] Bill, do you have anything to add to any of that?

[25:31] You're thinking about it, I can tell.

[25:39] Perfect.

[25:44] I don't know why I say it.

[25:45] Not the best public speaker saw it do my best.

[25:50] The garage is dated if you look around town, a lot of our buildings are nice and we're

[25:56] trying to get to that status where we can protect all our equipment from being ruined.

[26:02] a lot of our stuff that's sitting outside right now.

[26:05] If the stickers aren't printed on it correctly,

[26:08] or we're not supposed to be using it.

[26:11] And just the added protection to be able to put the equipment inside the garage,

[26:16] like it was said, I can't tell you how many times I've asked the guys to go out there,

[26:21] grab the chipper and an hour and a half later,

[26:24] we're still trying to get it out of the snow and warm it up.

[26:27] So, it's a huge benefit to be able to keep your equipment inside.

[26:34] Also, our fleets being upgraded, we want to keep these trucks looking nice.

[26:39] You get more return for your value when you trade them in, or if you exchange them.

[26:47] And yeah, and you know, they're going to be clean.

[26:52] Yeah, we do clean them inside on the maintenance end of it on our maintenance garage.

[26:57] we have a wash bay in there and that's, you know, storm ends, that's where we go.

[27:14] Okay, so we're going to open up item one here for some discussion.

[27:18] Some real simple basic ground rules.

[27:21] We're all here because we care about the town and I think that's really important to remember.

[27:25] We might disagree as to what the best use of town funds are.

[27:28] We might think that something could be done a little bit better or differently.

[27:31] But at the end of the day, try to remember that your neighbors are here.

[27:35] Volunteers are here to help, you know, the town run efficiently.

[27:37] to try to remember that. I'm going to keep a very loose three-minute guideline on comments

[27:43] and questions, anyone who's seen me moderate something before, I don't pull the hook out

[27:48] right at three, I'll let everybody finish their thought. If you have questions, I think that's

[27:54] appropriate, and I think that people will try to answer the questions if they can. However, please

[27:59] be mindful that getting an answer to your question and getting the answer to your question that

[28:05] you like are two different things anybody who has kids can understand that. So do try to keep

[28:13] that in mind that if you ask a question and your question is then they get an answer for

[28:17] here they say well I don't know or they say that we know we're exploring that then okay we can

[28:22] we can probably move on to the next item without coming back to that same question over and over again

[28:27] okay so I'm going to stick this mic in here so that the folks up here can use it and then I will

[28:33] around Phil Donahue style and get everyone's answers for question one.

[28:40] Okay.

[28:43] Okay.

[28:57] So we'll start with what we're just doing item one now. Just talking about is how we're not talking about the Kate. Yeah, okay.

[29:03] What's the construction time frame?

[29:12] Could you repeat the question?

[29:13] Yeah, what's the construction time frame with the time frame?

[29:17] That's the question.

[29:17] Construction time frame is the question.

[29:23] Probably that is because that was too close.

[29:26] Probably nine to twelve months.

[29:31] The hope would be that should this pass a referendum

[29:35] will go out and go out to the market, get money in October

[29:40] and Greg and Mark here at Point One are hoping to have construction

[29:47] drawings by the end of October and then once we have those we've got to

[29:51] bid over the winter and hopefully have someone in place in early

[29:55] in 2007.

[30:03] Will this site accommodate floors underground? One or more floors? Where is the ground water at this?

[30:17] So the question is will it accommodate floors underground? Number one, are there going to be basements that we're talking about?

[30:27] Okay, and the second part of the question is about groundwater and how the groundwater is going to be handled?

[30:33] We will not have any floors underground, it will all be slab-on-grade.

[30:41] It would be very difficult to do, because it is high groundwater, it is kind of, there's

[30:46] wetlands all around the area, so it's not something that we actually explore, anyway.

[30:54] It's probably not practical to do, it would probably add a lot of cost as well, so.

[31:01] Yes, hello.

[31:02] I'm wondering, you mentioned about Clinton helping out and being the place for the dog pound or other animals needing a little help.

[31:12] Is there something reciprocal that we do for Clinton?

[31:16] Yeah,

[31:20] so over the last ten years there's been a real push towards regionalization of a lot of things.

[31:28] We would, I have the agreement in my office, it's a nominal amount that we would contribute

[31:34] towards the facility itself, which is pretty much new.

[31:41] In addition to that, it would be our officers or animal control officer taking care of our animals.

[31:50] However, if we needed assistance, we would pay them if it was a Sunday and we had nobody available.

[31:56] So, it's a very reasonable, the, in fact, like I said, it's nominal, it's not like getting into a facility that we have to build.

[32:07] So, Essex is Essex has an old animal facility, and they are trying to regionalize with, I think, Chester, Deep River, Essex, and maybe killing worth.

[32:19] They've already received a grant for a million dollars to build that facility, and it's not enough.

[32:25] I mean, it's expensive because they have to be air conditioned and heated, and this is not.

[32:33] So it's, and Clinton's is. So it's actually a much better facility, both for the animals, and it's expensive to build a new one, and we don't have room on this site anyway.

[32:43] Is that answer?

[32:51] If anything should happen to Clinton with us,

[32:55] relationship-wise, or whatever else,

[32:58] what would we do for a contingency plan?

[33:00] Because it's not our facility, the dog-bound.

[33:05] What would we do for an evacuation plan?

[33:08] No, I think if the relationship with Clinton

[33:11] has to end or doesn't work out,

[33:13] or we lose the ability to use Clinton's dog-bound,

[33:15] do we have a contingency plan about our animals?

[33:19] there are other animal facilities in the air. Madison has one. If Essex gets built, I'm sure

[33:27] we'd be welcome there, but probably at a higher cost. But there are other facilities in the

[33:33] area. It's just not maybe not as conveniently located.

[33:40] Anybody else on item number one? Anybody?

[33:45] Go on, once, oops, what do we have, I want to say yes sir, I'll come on up.

[34:05] I'm just wondering what the general experience is with the town offering municipal bonds.

[34:10] Have you have a history of it?

[34:12] Or is this the first time?

[34:15] You know, for the terms of bonding?

[34:18] Yeah, oh no, we last went out in 2014 for the police station, the tennis courts, the turf field.

[34:28] and tennis track and turf, yeah, we had to do a new track, we did, I think, good when windows at that time and maybe the middle school roof, all of this, I think it was all at the same time.

[34:43] So those bonds and the cake before that was in 05 or 06.

[34:48] Okay, so there is some experience.

[34:51] Yeah, and as many of you know, oh yeah, there's plenty of experience and there's plenty of people who want to do the work.

[34:57] legal work and the finance work so yeah no problem and as many of you

[35:03] know the town was recently upgraded we were doubly two were doubly one were

[35:08] one step away from AAA and that's a moody's that's a moody's rating and

[35:15] it's really solid so I think we're gonna do very well in the market even though

[35:20] interest rates seem to be going up a little bit thank you

[35:31] thank you very much

[35:33] And there we go.

[35:40] Sure, go ahead, try.

[35:46] How does this play into the budget for the park

[35:49] at the point, I think, is the question?

[35:52] Because we're taking on a big expenditure there.

[35:54] Well, we're not taking anything on yet

[35:57] because we don't own that yet.

[36:01] So from surplus funds this year,

[36:03] we put a sign of $1 million for that project.

[36:07] We have an RFP out right now to landscape architects

[36:11] in civil engineering firms, and we saw estimates of around $2 million dollars to do that

[36:17] parked down there.

[36:18] So we're well on our way because we've put aside about a million.

[36:21] We think the state is going to be very interested in funding this, funding that project.

[36:27] I mean, it's a little off topic, so I don't want to go too far into it, but I'm very optimistic

[36:33] that we would get grant funds also.

[36:35] So I think the pieces would come together pretty easily for docking the docking bag.

[36:42] Anything else on item one, town garage?

[36:48] Going once? Going twice?

[36:52] All right, we're going to move on too.

[36:55] Item number two, and I will entertain a motion

[36:58] to, as recommended by the Board of Selectman and Board of Finance,

[37:02] to discuss a resolution to appropriate $11.3 million to renovate

[37:06] and construct an addition to the Catherine Heppern Cultural Arts Centre,

[37:10] and be to finance the appropriated by issuing the towns, bonds, or notes in the amount not to exceed

[37:16] $6.3 million with the balance funded by grants and capital campaign funds.

[37:22] Got that. Thank you very much. Second. I can Jane, thank you very much.

[37:26] So I will now hand the floor back over to

[37:33] So, back in about 15, 16 years ago, the town renovated this building, Brett and Robin will give you more details on this, and we entered into a long-term lease with the 501C3, the Catherine Hepburn Cultural Arts Center, which still governs that relationship today.

[37:57] And so the Kate operates in a town building,

[38:03] so we, the town funds part of the maintenance

[38:07] of the building, like a couple years ago, it needed gutters, and because it's a town building,

[38:12] we put the gutters on the building.

[38:14] So this is a town building that you're going to hear about, and the expansion would keep

[38:19] it a town building, and I'm just going to turn it over to you guys right now, for I just

[38:25] make sure people understand it is a town building.

[38:30] Thank you, Carl. And thanks everyone for being here.

[38:34] My name is Brett Elliott. I'm the executive director of the Catherine Hepburn Cultural Arts Center

[38:38] or the Kate. I've been at the helm of the Kate for nearly 12 years. And I'm here with my colleague

[38:43] Robin Andrew Lee who is the Kate's director of development and community relations. So we're here

[38:48] tonight to talk about an exciting opportunity for 300 Main Street, the Catherine Hepburn Cultural

[38:53] Center and Old Saber. We have two goals this evening. And one is to be most importantly is to explain

[39:00] why this is good for Old Saber. And the second is to explain why this expansion that the

[39:07] Kate's board and staff with input from town officials have been developing for the last five years as

[39:13] a good thing. This project addresses real needs for the Kate, but it's benefits extend well beyond the

[39:20] It's an investment in a town owned building, benefiting Main Street, our residents, our businesses, and our community.

[39:27] As proposed, this project is a total of $11.3 million, however the boundary quest is for less than that,

[39:34] the ASCUS for 6.3, with the CATE contributing 5 million plus from fundraising efforts.

[39:42] So to begin, I just want to express grateful the CATE is to the town of Old Saverick over the last two decades.

[39:48] For not only supporting the Kate and allowing it to grow and thrive, but also for having

[39:53] the foresight and ambition to create and sustain one of the best public-private partnerships

[39:59] around.

[40:00] It's no secret that the Kate is proudly resides in a historic building, town building, and

[40:06] on the town hall campus, and the nonprofit that sits within 300 Main Street works tirelessly

[40:11] to activate the facility to its maximum potential.

[40:14] This project is a physical expansion of 300 main street, approximately 7,500 square feet.

[40:21] The expansion in its simplest explanation allows the Cates programming to continue to grow and thrive,

[40:27] and also to continue to grow our overall positive commitment to the community and businesses of old saver.

[40:33] So why expand now?

[40:36] Well, since our opening in 2009, programming, attendance, education, and the museum visitors have all grown dramatically.

[40:44] And we've already reached beyond our means for space.

[40:48] We're not expanding and hopes that people will come either.

[40:51] People are already coming.

[40:53] We are expanding because nearly 17 years of growth have shown us what this building can be.

[40:59] a comprehensive cultural arts center with a wider variety of arts and arts adjacent programming

[41:05] for all ages, five to seven days a week, 12 months a year for generations to come.

[41:12] It's as our tagline suggests more than you can imagine.

[41:19] Thanks for your time tonight, which is going to be answers to my thanks.

[41:23] So as Brett said, the Kate has grown and is hoping to expand, it's really an evolution of the

[41:28] organization, and this expansion is an important part of that evolution.

[41:33] It's about being responsive to our patrons, flexible, and able to adapt to shifting trends

[41:38] and competitive, and not only in terms of selling tickets for being competitive, in order

[41:42] to attract the renowned artists that we've been able to have at the Kate.

[41:46] 300 Main Street has always been an important part of the landscape of Old Seabruck.

[41:50] The historic building began with a connection to theater in the arts when Joseph Cone and members

[41:55] of the old-sabric musical and dramatic club raised the funds to build the building as a place

[42:00] for the performing arts and community gatherings that opened in 1911. By the 60s, of course,

[42:05] it was used for talent government, but fortunately, many of the original theater amenities

[42:09] were not removed. They were simply covered up, and decades later, that history helped make

[42:14] possible the next chapter, restoration and transformation into what we now know as the Kate with

[42:20] contributions from people in town like Bob and Barbara Welsh. Thanks Bob. E-Djangers and others who

[42:26] really contributed their time. Keeping in mind the population of Old Saveric in 1911 was about

[42:31] 1500 residents. Now we have over 10,000 residents and we feel this is a great place for us to

[42:37] grow into and to help keep serving the community.

[42:44] So we view our mission as three pillars,

[42:46] live performance and cultural events, arts, education and enrichment and sustaining Catherine Hepburns

[42:52] advocacy. Since opening, we've actually welcomed more than 675,000 patrons and visitors and

[43:00] presented over 4,100 shows and events. We're proud to have had the likes of Judy Collins,

[43:06] Graham Nash, Sheila E. Art Garfunkel, and Herbalper among others, perform at the K as well as

[43:12] local and regional artists under reds leadership to get sales of grown from roughly 28,000 a year

[43:18] more than 75,000 a year. It's pretty incredible when you consider the theater only seats

[43:24] 284 people at a time. Arts Education and Enrichment, which is really a critical part of our

[43:30] mission. Our summer camp is a great example of how program demand has exceeded our capacity.

[43:36] When Cates Camp for Kids opened in 2012, we had just under 100 kids participating. In this

[43:43] past summer we filled four hundred and sixty campus lots across eight weeks we

[43:48] provide scholarships when needed but we still had one hundred families on a

[43:52] weight list. Beyond summer our free educational student matinee series reaches

[43:58] about three thousand students each year and last year seven hundred and fifty old

[44:02] zebra public school students attended. We've had a great time hosting a

[44:06] theater lighting and sound workshop for old zebra seventh graders in a play

[44:10] class and discussing the nonprofit business model with fifth graders who are in STEM classes.

[44:17] Our third pillar, Katherine Hepburn's Legacy.

[44:22] It's about preserving, promoting and

[44:24] honoring the Connecticut Resident and Old Saber president. Through the official Katherine

[44:28] Hepburn Museum, tours and exhibits attract thousands of visitors each year and our public programs

[44:34] tell the history of the Hepburn family, Old Saber, and Connecticut. The spirit of Katherine Hepburn

[44:40] words, celebrates individuals who embody mishepperns, bold spirit, and elevates her memory

[44:46] to a national level.

[44:48] Carrying forward Catherine Hepburn's legacy means more than celebrating her life, however,

[44:52] it means activating her spirit in the community that she loved.

[44:55] She called Old Sabre her paradise.

[44:58] It was her home in a place that she continually...

[45:00] So we work every day to honor that connection. For the past seven years, we have presented the Catherine Hepburn Cultural Arts Center Scholarship to

[45:10] graduating senior and old-sabric schools. We are the site for the gold, star moms, heroes, tree helping to honor local veterans and their families.

[45:19] Through our partnership with the vet tick foundation, we're able to provide hundreds of complimentary tickets to local veterans each year.

[45:26] We support our fellow nonprofits through ticket donations for auctions and raffles.

[45:31] You'll find the Kate staff at a lot of different celebrations in the community at Celebrate

[45:35] Sabreux or the Starlight Festival.

[45:38] We sponsor concerts on the green and the Chambers Arts and Crafts Festival.

[45:42] Sometimes we're behind the scenes or running the stage and sometimes we're the people

[45:46] stringing lights from a ladder.

[45:49] The Kate is also a home for other arts organizations and cultural partners, including the

[45:54] Cyber-Costorical Society Lecture Series, a very popular art film series that we co-host with

[46:00] the Florence Griswald Museum, and Vista Life Innovations annual All Abilities Production,

[46:06] which showcases diversity and inclusion in our regional community. That's just a name of

[46:11] few. And community groups like the Friends of Act in Public Library, Old Sabre Grodery,

[46:16] and the YMCA have hosted fundraisers and annual meetings at the Kate. But we often have to turn

[46:22] partners away because we lack the time and space to accommodate them.

[46:26] We know that the proposed expansion fits with the Old Sabre Plan of Conservation and Development,

[46:31] specifically the Action Plan for Historic and Cultural Resources to continue to support

[46:36] cultural arts programming and also connect local arts and cultural institutions with Old Sabre

[46:41] Schools and Youth Organizations.

[46:44] Should Old Sabre create a state-recognized cultural district, the Kates expansion, and this

[46:50] programming that it enables will help support that effort, strengthening the town's identity

[46:55] as a cultural destination and recognizing the powerful roles that the arts and culture

[47:00] play in driving economic vitality, civic pride, and community connection.

[47:07] Thank you. I want to share a little bit about the case economic impact on old

[47:12] saber. First starting with this ticket graph. This is our tickets sense opening. You can see

[47:16] sort of the steady trajectory there. Of course, you can see the follow-up from the pandemic,

[47:20] But the reason I point that out is how strong we came back and we're really grateful to all of the folks who supported us through that time because that didn't go so well for other theaters

[47:29] But Robin just said that there were about just over 75,000 ticketed patrons last year and we know that there are about 10,000 people that came to the Kate for education programs as museum visitors

[47:40] And through other means which puts us over 85,000 people just last year and according to Americans for the arts arts and economic prosperity

[47:48] This is the leading organization that does this kind of data work.

[47:52] Attendees at nonprofit arts and cultural events spend about $38.46 for person

[47:57] per event beyond the cost of admission.

[48:01] So if you calculate that out, I hit it twice.

[48:04] The Kate potentially contributed more than 3.25 million dollars

[48:08] to the economic vitality of old-sabric just last year.

[48:12] And if you look a bit further back in time

[48:14] so when we open that's $675,000 patrons,

[48:17] comes out to over $25 million.

[48:20] The last piece I had on this one was future.

[48:22] The reason I'm mentioning the future

[48:23] is because with the expansion,

[48:26] we see foot traffic into the cat increasing by about 35%.

[48:30] And so if you calculate that out into 35%,

[48:32] you're going to come up with a number

[48:33] that is closer to four or four and a half million dollars.

[48:37] And that's impact that is stealth daily.

[48:39] You've probably been to a restaurant on a show night

[48:41] and at seven o'clock, it's really busy.

[48:43] And by 8 o'clock it's a little bit thinner because everybody has headed out to that show.

[48:47] I was recently talking to a shop owner who let me know that she sees Pager or she sees individuals

[48:52] who come to her shop from outside of town and they make a stop to her shop before they come to

[48:58] event at the Kate.

[48:59] And then in terms of hotels, you know people make a weekend of it, they come, they stay here.

[49:04] But I also wanted to share that the Kate books over 400 nights at local hotels for

[49:08] artists coming to the Cate every year. And just last year, between artists and artists

[49:12] crew, those are 2,000 people that we fed at the Cate because they were touring in. Those

[49:18] are all dollars spent here in Old Savourk. Just a little bit about our demographic in terms

[49:23] of where our audience comes from. We know that 8% of our audience is from Old Savourk

[49:28] Proper. And then from Brandford, over to New London and encompassing the Connecticut River

[49:32] valley, another 31%, 47% from the balance of the state, and then if you take Rhode Island

[49:41] Massachusetts in New York, another 9%, that leaves 5% that are actually coming from outside

[49:46] that entire area, that 5% last year included 49 of 50 states represented, as well as the

[49:53] UK, Mexico, and Canada.

[49:56] And then last on this slide, did want to mention, so more than 90% of our audience comes from

[50:01] outside of Old Saver, bringing outside dollars into our community.

[50:05] The Kate also serves local residents just last year,

[50:08] approximately 28% of old Saver households attended

[50:12] up performance or participated in a camp

[50:15] or enrichment program at the Kate.

[50:17] And that doesn't capture everything,

[50:18] because we have, as Robin was mentioning, free programs.

[50:21] We're nearly all of Goodwin Elementary

[50:23] comes to the Kate for a show,

[50:25] or high schoolers are coming for one of our programs.

[50:28] So we put that number closer to 35 or 40%.

[50:31] that was the 40% at the end there.

[50:33] And we also host other events,

[50:34] like we host the Old Stabric Select and Symbol Band

[50:37] and Equator Concert every year.

[50:38] And those are not ticketed events,

[50:40] so they're not calculated into that number.

[50:42] In terms of financial stability and opportunity there,

[50:46] as a cultural nonprofit,

[50:48] we only exist for the betterment of our community.

[50:51] Any net surplus dollars are reinvested back

[50:54] into the operation, the facility, and the community.

[50:57] The Kate has also been fortunate to be in the black,

[50:59] the last 12 plus years. In a time when that wasn't true for a lot of theaters and so that has given us

[51:05] a really good foundation for this next chapter. But talking about support, we are so grateful for the

[51:11] town but also our members and donors, local businesses, foundations, and all of our volunteers.

[51:17] They are over 200 people in the Cates of the Interior Guild. And in terms of that public

[51:21] private partnership, I did want to mention that for nearly two decades the town and the Cate

[51:26] have created a partnership that leveraged public ownership with private fundraising and nonprofit operations.

[51:32] The town provides our 300 main street home, the Kate activates that asset, and generates cultural community and economic return.

[51:40] We've also invested in the building, major systems, other responsibility of the town, but through grant dollars and tax credits,

[51:48] we've replaced the chillers, we've replaced the boilers, we've replaced all the lighting with energy efficient lighting.

[51:52] we continue to take care of that building.

[51:56] Those projects were accomplished at no direct cost to the town.

[51:59] As the landlord, they would have been a town expense.

[52:02] We don't simply occupy 300 Main Street.

[52:05] We invest in it, we care for it,

[52:06] and we help make this town own building a show place

[52:09] for a old savorick.

[52:14] So we're talking about now the plan,

[52:16] what will we do with the new space?

[52:18] It really does present more opportunity for programming.

[52:22] So things that don't quite fit well

[52:24] in the 284-seat theater but would be perfect in a 90-seat theater could be a local singer song.

[52:31] We'd like to do many more lectures. We often have to turn people away who propose these ideas again because of lack of time and space. More comedy. There could be more film screenings. We keep Katherine Hepburn's body of work alive by showing Kate classic films. All of the time, poetry and spoken word are programs. We've heard requests for that we haven't been able to get off the ground yet because of lack of space. Classes and workshops. People who want to become art makers, the place for people to do those things, dance, perhaps instruction.

[52:58] Then we could have more paint nights, what of Katherine Hepburn's pastimes was painting,

[53:04] and we've hosted a paint night that was very popular, and a ukulele workshop that actually

[53:09] sold out three times, community conversations, not every great program is best suited in

[53:14] the large theater, so we find a lot of opportunity here.

[53:17] Better support for our artists, it may not sound like major impact on the surface, but an improved

[53:22] backstage area will really go a long way, a service elevator for the very first time going

[53:27] stage, better artist accommodations, you know, sometimes you'll see a large tour bus in front of

[53:32] the cake. We want to get that off the street. It would actually end up in the alley going forward.

[53:38] But there are many people on a tour bus and they want to take a shower or wash clothes,

[53:42] things like that. So just to help be a little more accommodating for the artists who are

[53:46] appearing on stage, a better patron experience. We would have additional lobby space and more

[53:51] restrooms. We are an anomaly where probably the only place you'll ever go to, where there is a line

[53:55] at the Men's Room and on at the Ladies Room.

[53:58] So we would increase that capacity by almost double for our patrons.

[54:02] More exhibit space.

[54:03] The Katherine Hepburn Museum is quite large now.

[54:05] We did renovate it in 2021, but our collection has grown exponentially.

[54:10] People have found out about us, which is a good thing.

[54:13] And so we get a lot of collection items that are donated to us.

[54:16] And we'd love to be able to show more of that.

[54:19] More Katherine Hepburn Museum programs, public programs, in the way of lectures, talks

[54:24] workshops. More education arts education, of course, and we'd love for there to be an extension

[54:30] of our camp program. Right now, we were starting off with serving ages 6 to 10. We added

[54:35] a module for ages 11 to 13 a few years ago, and they're filling up. But those kids are aging

[54:41] out of the program, and as 14 year olds are asking us what's next. So we'd love to be able to

[54:46] think about more teen programming. This opens the door for after school programming, which is

[54:51] is almost not an existent because at that time we're getting ready for the evening show.

[54:56] And lots of other things for all age groups as we mentioned, classes and workshops, year-round

[55:00] opportunities for folks.

[55:02] Accessibility and long-term flexibility.

[55:05] This facility designed to serve different needs today and adapt to the needs that we haven't even imagined yet.

[55:10] It also solves for staff offices.

[55:12] Believe it or not, the Kate went from three full-time people to ten full-time people in the last decade,

[55:17] so we could use that space.

[55:18] Right now, we're constantly making trade-offs because we've outgrown our available space,

[55:22] we're often forced to choose between good opportunities, not because they're not valuable,

[55:26] but because we simply don't have capacity.

[55:29] Next batch and change is that it allows us to stop choosing between good opportunities

[55:33] and start creating more of them.

[55:35] We look forward to ideas and input from the community as we start creating.

[55:41] So I know you'd like to know what the footprint looks like.

[55:44] And so this next slide is the current site plan.

[55:47] You can see Main Street to the left there,

[55:49] Sheffield to the top, town hall to the right,

[55:52] and the town green to the bottom.

[55:54] The footprint of the expansion sits right here.

[55:57] It does affect three parking spots.

[55:59] That is a piece that we're working on in our zoning application.

[56:03] But you can see that it is on the north side of the sidewalk

[56:06] to town hall, so it doesn't affect the town green

[56:08] proper in any way.

[56:11] And then we mentioned the magic of flexibility

[56:13] with this space, so that red ring that I just drew,

[56:16] I kind of wanted to share a little bit

[56:17] what's inside there for you. So on the first level, it is two classrooms, two just over 500

[56:22] square foot classrooms. There is a center divide wall, so it can open up into one large classroom.

[56:27] And then the next two images are the second level, two different versions of that. In the first one,

[56:33] there are with our two rooms. There are about 600 and 30 square foot each with the center divide

[56:37] closed. And you can see in that bottom image, that same room opens up into a 90 to 93 seat

[56:43] performance space. So that can be cinema, that can be live performance, but all those chairs can get struck and go right into their their homes closets right next door and that can be a wide open space for something else.

[56:54] To show you a few renderings.

[56:56] These have been through planning commission. We are up to our final step list zoning right now. You can see the expansion there on the right side of the screen.

[57:04] I do like to point out the sort of historical nature progression of the building.

[57:08] Robin mentioned, you know, the building being built in 1911. Well, those historic columns are

[57:13] still there on the front. In the last renovation, the lobbies were added,

[57:17] transitioned to a little bit more contemporary, and then the building sort of continues to flow

[57:20] and sort into its next chapter and next century with the expansion. The next slide is just that

[57:26] section, a little bit closer. You'll start to see the windows that overlook the town green,

[57:31] so there's great views of the town green from the space. And when I go to the next slide,

[57:37] You'll see it from the back side coming into the town hall parking lot.

[57:40] You can see right through that building.

[57:42] There is my truck, yes.

[57:46] Those windows though have floor to ceiling,

[57:48] theatrical curtains that block them out so we can have this great open space.

[57:51] But we also can close that off for cinema or live performance or other things as well.

[57:56] The windows on the bottom of that level, of course, have the classroom shown.

[58:00] Those are the three renderings we have to show you.

[58:03] Oh, and I did want to mention a couple of points, critical points, should the referendum pass.

[58:09] A construction could start as soon as December.

[58:12] Senator Rick Architects has been our architects and they are into final drawings right now.

[58:17] The hope is for much of the site work to happen when there are fewer outdoor activities that could be disrupted.

[58:22] However, we have been working with town leaders, including parks and recreation and the chamber of commerce, to minimize any disruptions to events that take place on the green or in the surrounding areas.

[58:33] Also, the theater would not close during construction.

[58:36] There would not be a dark period.

[58:38] The existing theater in lobbies remain relatively unchanged.

[58:43] And to answer another question, we are exploring ways that the facility can be used beyond

[58:49] Kate programming, including town use and community organization use, which are things that

[58:53] we already do.

[58:54] And this will just open up a new chapter for that.

[58:57] So our last slide is just kind of a quick recap.

[59:00] I'm not going to go through all of those pieces, but I just want to go through things

[59:02] on the left. So for us, what does growth look like? Well, during a two-year ramp-up period,

[59:07] 35% increase in patrons, as I mentioned, we see that as a greater number for youth and education

[59:13] participants, upwards of 50 to 75%. The Kate would reach its full potential as a comprehensive

[59:18] cultural arts center. If you were to trade off some more opportunities because we have more space

[59:23] to do more things of different scale, I wanted to emphasize the importance of contiguous space.

[59:29] There have been questions of, you know, there's a vacant storefront on the other side of town.

[59:34] Couldn't we use that? It's possible. But the magic of this space is it's all under one roof,

[59:39] so we're sharing resources, we're sharing staff. If we were to have to create an entire

[59:43] other staff at another space for a smaller room, I don't think that economic model would work,

[59:48] and then I wanted to remind everybody of that economic impact for old sabric of four to five and a

[59:53] half million dollars moving forward. So just to some closing remarks really quickly and I'll go back

[59:58] to that image. This expansion is about...

[1:00:00] Much more than the Kate, it's an investment in a town-owned building that already works every day for our residents, our businesses,

[1:00:07] Main Street and the economy. The Kate is thriving. The audiences are here, the programs are growing, and we've simply outgrown our space.

[1:00:16] And the town isn't doing this alone. Private donors and supporters are investing millions alongside the town.

[1:00:21] For residents, this means more programs, classes, camps, community and community opportunities.

[1:00:28] For local businesses, it means more people eating, shopping, staying, and spending money here in Old

[1:00:33] Saverick.

[1:00:35] This is our opportunity to build on something Old Saverick already knows, works.

[1:00:39] It's no longer a mystery as it was 20 years ago, and make a great community asset even

[1:00:44] stronger for generations to come.

[1:00:47] I think that's our presentation.

[1:00:56] Okay, thank you. I will we'll begin our QLA and Collins from the crowd now.

[1:01:05] So same kind of general god rules everyone

[1:01:07] So well with the first one. I hope we can do it up for the second.

[1:01:13] Okay, any questions about the second? I don't

[1:01:19] anybody anybody anybody now's your chance to help you shy. There we go over here

[1:01:26] Somebody behind you wants to go first

[1:01:31] So, with the recent, with the recent sale or the opportunity by the Bushnell Farm, I'm wondering

[1:01:40] how that has factored into this bond or these two bond opportunities and if it hasn't

[1:01:47] why not and shouldn't the town people have the opportunity to vote for the Bushnell versus

[1:01:53] the case versus the, what do you call it, the tongue rock?

[1:02:02] So the, the busional farm has not surfaced at the board of selectments.

[1:02:07] I know the properties up for sale, but there has been, we haven't been approached.

[1:02:14] I know the historical society has tried to start a conversation with the owners,

[1:02:19] but they've been from what I understand, relatively resistant and really want to just put

[1:02:26] to put the farm on the market and sell it to the highest bitter.

[1:02:31] So at the end of the day though,

[1:02:34] it's not about whether it's the busional farm

[1:02:37] or whether it's docking dying.

[1:02:40] It's not one or the other.

[1:02:43] It's this is what's before it folks now.

[1:02:46] It wouldn't preclude future action on any other item.

[1:03:01] Okay, you're all on that.

[1:03:02] So we'll put in there.

[1:03:04] So as I understand that the busional farm

[1:03:07] on the market for $12 million right now.

[1:03:10] So if that's the case, and if it's a future consideration, then we're talking about very

[1:03:17] significant dollars that are being asked of the town of Old Saybrook.

[1:03:21] So my question is, if it's not on the agenda today, which you said it is not, how do we

[1:03:27] get it on the agenda so that people can start talking about it and choose a preference?

[1:03:34] So a sale requires a willing purchaser and a willing seller and I mean, you know,

[1:03:42] and as I said,

[1:03:43] we've had some folks in town from the Historical Society have reached out and they've been

[1:03:49] shut out.

[1:03:50] So I have no other information on the personal farm.

[1:03:52] I just don't.

[1:03:53] I understand it's important to you, but I have no other information on what will happen with

[1:03:59] that and when.

[1:04:01] No idea.

[1:04:04] Okay. Any other questions about the Kate?

[1:04:06] Sir.

[1:04:09] Thank you.

[1:04:10] Thank you for your presentation.

[1:04:12] I love the Kate, what it does for our community.

[1:04:14] Go there often.

[1:04:16] You noted one of the spaces could be modular.

[1:04:19] It could be the classroom, could be bigger, small.

[1:04:21] And I want to bridge my question into that.

[1:04:23] It was a lower cost option looked into for the main Kate spaces.

[1:04:26] It said you turned lectures away, which means money for the Kate, which means

[1:04:30] opportunity for the town, but could we utilize that space in a much

[1:04:34] other way rather than, I mean I get the bathrooms, I get the space for the

[1:04:38] artists, getting the tour buses off the main drag, you know, save the

[1:04:41] parking spaces, but the space itself I'm not seeing the need for 90 seats, you

[1:04:47] know, there as opposed to using what you have and partitioning it off.

[1:04:52] Sure. I think one of the biggest ways to look at that is there are several

[1:04:56] things that play the main space where 75 people are coming, for example, we would love to do

[1:05:03] more lectures with the historical society. But sometimes those numbers are 50, 75, sometimes

[1:05:08] they're 175 and that's wonderful. Having another space like this where I can appropriately put

[1:05:13] that lecture on Saturday or Sunday afternoon and also run the art film or the concert that's

[1:05:19] playing in the theater allows us to do both of those things and not turn those opportunities away.

[1:05:24] So you want to add to that, I'm just thinking a lot.

[1:05:29] Sure, yeah, well, that is true.

[1:05:31] I mean, the ticket revenue from the 284 seats base is really important to keep paying

[1:05:36] staff and keep the place vibrant and moving forward.

[1:05:40] So having a space that we can do both things as opposed to one or the other.

[1:05:43] As we've Robin mentioned, and I think I mentioned, sometimes we have to turn away those

[1:05:47] smaller things because we need to make sure that we're filling the room and doing the

[1:05:50] thing and people are coming to town and eating in restaurants and we're making the impact

[1:05:54] that we plan to.

[1:05:54] So this gives us a lot of different ways

[1:05:57] to move programming around, to increase programming overall

[1:06:02] and use the main theater to its maximum potential.

[1:06:05] I'd also share in the summer, I think it's important

[1:06:07] to know with camps, as we bring on the older kids

[1:06:11] program that Robin was mentioning,

[1:06:13] we may have eight weeks of 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.

[1:06:15] all summer with kids coming and going all summer.

[1:06:18] And right now we just can't do that.

[1:06:20] We work out of the two spaces we have,

[1:06:22] we're actually renting from the middle school

[1:06:23] for one of our programs now, that may continue in the future because the programs may keep growing,

[1:06:28] but it gives us a lot of flexibility. And with camps, the Cate is one state site. And this is

[1:06:33] another state site, so we have two camp directors, two firstators, two assistant directors. And that's

[1:06:39] the same example of having space across town with another performance space that's all about that

[1:06:42] contiguous space. Hope that answers your question.

[1:06:49] Sure.

[1:06:53] When he says he can offer two things,

[1:06:55] correct me if I'm wrong. He means he can have the lecture while the stage lighting is being

[1:06:59] adjusted. They're doing sound checks for the band because to have a live show or even play a movie,

[1:07:04] you have to change a lot of the logistics of the room in order to have that function. So you can have

[1:07:09] simultaneous activities being prepped or running in a room as someone who reset the room for this meeting

[1:07:14] tonight. Not everyone realizes like the time and energy it takes to reset all that.

[1:07:19] Yeah, that is, that is absolutely correct. And another example of that is we do this to life

[1:07:23] innovations, all abilities production every year. They have upwards of 50 people in that cast.

[1:07:27] Our dressing rooms don't hold 50 people, so we're using our mark.

[1:07:30] He glove in other spaces in there. This would give us another way to how those people end on a week where this day is rehearsing Sunday Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday before they open on Thursday. We could do other things in the other space so that there is continuous action during the week as well.

[1:07:46] Okay, we're going up here. Sir, you're talking about running more than one event at the same time.

[1:07:56] When the kid has got a shield going now, parking becomes a real premium and it's difficult

[1:08:02] sometimes to find spaces when you guys are sold out.

[1:08:06] So would we planning to do if you're running more than one event at the same time in terms

[1:08:10] of parking?

[1:08:11] Yep, we do have a plan for that and that is for zoning right now.

[1:08:15] A couple of pieces to that.

[1:08:16] So one, if we have two events running, first of all they don't both start at seven o'clock

[1:08:20] or eight o'clock, they start staggered, so it doesn't change traffic on Main Street.

[1:08:24] I will say, for parking, we have put forth a plan to zoning that shows that we have within

[1:08:30] a thousand feet of the gate three times the zoning required parking spaces.

[1:08:35] The thing that I like to have been saying is that I think we have a parking perception problem

[1:08:40] more than a parking problem.

[1:08:42] The reason I say that is that we have designated spaces down at Porter Plaza where paperback

[1:08:47] is, Grace Church is also on that list as approved.

[1:08:50] Everybody wants to park in the one space directly in front of the gate, which just isn't

[1:08:55] feasible for a theater.

[1:08:57] But what I would ask you to think about is the walk from Good Speed Opera House to the

[1:09:01] parking lot, or if you're at the busional to the parking garage or the lots, is no farther

[1:09:05] than Porter Plaza or Grace Church and it's lighted and it's safe.

[1:09:09] So I would like to share or propose that we have a parking perception problem.

[1:09:14] There is a lot of parking just a few feet away.

[1:09:17] You just have to, you know, come down in the three to four minute walk from Porter Plaza.

[1:09:25] S, man.

[1:09:28] Hello. Um, no. Thank you. Okay. So I tried to get my brain in order here.

[1:09:35] So it's really choppy, but I just have sort of three points in questions and questions. Um,

[1:09:42] all right. So, so in my opinion, the case awesome. You guys have done a lot for the town.

[1:09:49] the town has done a lot for you, and it seems like we're being accommodating throughout

[1:09:53] the town, parking spots, other locations, hostia locations, donations, and so forth.

[1:09:59] Now with the success of the cake, which it is, it's a spot in Old Sabreak.

[1:10:05] I personally think that it would be amazing if the cake could spread it.

[1:10:11] It's success to other parts of Old Sabreak.

[1:10:14] have another building to host your camps.

[1:10:17] You know, do set up a whole new building for all of that

[1:10:20] and leave the town hall, I call the town hall,

[1:10:24] still the theater, the way it is.

[1:10:27] Now, from what I recall and have learned about Katherine Hepburn,

[1:10:31] she was a fierce supporter of, you know,

[1:10:32] protecting his historic parts of Old Saber.

[1:10:36] I don't think that she would go for an addition like this,

[1:10:41] to be completely honest with you.

[1:10:43] And I also think that with all the expanding that you're doing with all of the growing numbers in your educational programs and so forth

[1:10:50] Why are we trying to shove them into a space still that's probably going to be too small by the rate that they're growing?

[1:10:59] Still.

[1:11:00] That's just my opinion. Thank you.

[1:11:03] Great.

[1:11:04] Well, I don't know what Katherine Hepburn would think about it, so I'm going to put that on to the side because I can't answer for her.

[1:11:10] One of the things we mentioned during our presentation was the contiguous space piece which is really important to this project.

[1:11:17] I do think we are creating a space that is well outfitted and well suited for the next chapter of the case and the next many years.

[1:11:24] I can't tell you if 20 years from now will be renting from the middle school again because the list programs have grown.

[1:11:30] But as I did share, same as programming, if there was an empty storefront on the other side of town, I don't think it physically makes financial sense to be able to have an entire

[1:11:39] separate staff over there. Everything is under one space plus four camps. For example, the magic is that those kids get to be on the Kate stage with stage lighting on their last performance date.

[1:11:51] And so if they are somewhere across town, that is considered a field trip and now you're trying to figure out how to get them there or the logistics.

[1:11:57] Even just to have kids at the middle school and come back to the Kate. It is considered a field trip by the state standards and there's safety vests and moving first aid kids and all sorts of things.

[1:12:07] So for us, we believe it is important to have contiguous space.

[1:12:12] We're also not changing the historic nature of that building.

[1:12:14] I will tell you that Shepo, which Shepo stands for, I'm trying to remember.

[1:12:21] State Historic Preservation, something.

[1:12:24] They have already approved these plans as well.

[1:12:25] They're looking to see expansions on historic buildings that take the character of the original

[1:12:29] building, but do not try to completely replicate it.

[1:12:32] So we have gotten a thumbs up from them already as well.

[1:12:36] Does that answer your question?

[1:12:45] Like, the problem of, like, you keep growing, like the amount of people that come in, you know, attend your activities and do your camps.

[1:12:54] Which is great.

[1:12:56] If you still don't have enough space, even after this edition.

[1:13:00] Well, I think.

[1:13:01] I mean, if you have to hire,

[1:13:05] I think there's no amount of money that you're asking for right now.

[1:13:09] I think you can make it work to be honest with you.

[1:13:12] But that's my pity.

[1:13:13] Sure.

[1:13:17] I appreciate that. Thank you. You know, I think I at this point, while we are trying to think of 20 years from now, we need to focus on the next 20 years not where we're at in 20 years.

[1:13:30] Do you have any one to add to that? I'm just thinking.

[1:13:34] Yeah, it gives us a lot to think about for sure, but, you know, what's to say that 25 years

[1:13:38] from now, we're not, hypothetically, not going to happen, but we're purchasing land over

[1:13:43] Mariners' way and we're renovating a plot of land there and there's a 500 seat, I don't

[1:13:47] know, you know, there could be a future chapter to this, but this is, in our opinion, a very

[1:13:51] right next chapter for the cave.

[1:13:53] I want to just to add, so we've been working on this project for about five years.

[1:13:59] We've gone through a lot of iterations of the what-ifs we did think about is this enough is it going to satisfy what we're trying to do, you know, for the next twenty five

[1:14:10] We came to the conclusion that it is at the moment, but yeah, you raise a valid point, but it hasn't been something that was thrown together overnight. It's been

[1:14:18] Costed down to the light switches. It has been pretty thoroughly reviewed by all of the boards and commissions that need to look at the plan

[1:14:29] So, you know, we did consider all those things early on,

[1:14:32] which I had a better way to articulate that for you.

[1:14:37] Yeah, I just, I love the Kate too.

[1:14:39] And we moved it down when you guys were getting ready to move in there.

[1:14:43] And it's been a fabulous thing to watch, grow, and really explode,

[1:14:49] and create such a central place for somebody folks to come into.

[1:14:54] So, I just, I'm trying to summarize my four points, I think, and I think they.

[1:15:00] Piggy back on what you're looking for. One of the things I noticed and you said in another presentation, I think it's important to call out, is that you and Carl have been reached out to by other towns saying, how are you doing that? That's really cool. I think that's important to reset here for you guys.

[1:15:19] But one of the numbers I was surprised about was that 28% of Sabroke residents, you know, we don't need a parking spot, a lot of us, we could bike down, we could walk down.

[1:15:30] So I just want to give a shout out to, you know, put some, put some minds to work. How can we grow that 28%, because I did see somebody walking down to an event on the green from their home.

[1:15:44] And I think that's a real opportunity to really say, hey, we're here, and that's cool.

[1:15:49] You're coming from mass, but hey, old Sabro, thanks for supporting us and see how we bring

[1:15:55] in our doors.

[1:15:57] So just how to grow that 28%.

[1:15:59] And I don't know what all those numbers look like, but I know they're big.

[1:16:03] So my second suggestion or idea is if we're putting in more money and you're running more

[1:16:09] programs, you must be given something back to the town, maybe start up a fund to say how

[1:16:16] to grow the arts, how to share the arts for other programs that may come to town. So we feed

[1:16:23] it back and then we let somebody else who wants to buy a busional or whatever build a farm

[1:16:29] that's an art farm or something. So just an idea of how to share that money, maybe that's

[1:16:34] discussion that's already come up.

[1:16:37] And then the last two points were, please expand if you could

[1:16:40] about that state of Connecticut awards for arts,

[1:16:43] because we deserve it.

[1:16:44] And I want to know when we're going to get it.

[1:16:47] And number four is, if you could get the real numbers

[1:16:51] for how you have busted out all the businesses

[1:16:55] by having the Kate and Town, that study you brought up

[1:16:58] is great, but I had to say I wondered what national number

[1:17:04] that is that in New York, is that who, but what are, what are say books numbers, whatever

[1:17:08] those real numbers, so just a suggestion there to get some more support for what you're doing.

[1:17:14] Thank you for all of those. Just very, very quickly, on that last point, that is the national average

[1:17:19] number. We chose to use that number to sort of simplify the process in previous studies that they

[1:17:26] actually broke out in town attendees versus out of town attendees and, of course, out of town

[1:17:32] and then they gave us the middle number in this last survey, so we actually anticipated that number could have been a bit higher because we have so many people coming from out of town.

[1:17:44] There are hands?

[1:17:45] Okay, I'll work this side of the room.

[1:17:47] Oh yeah, the 28% was 28% in the last year as well.

[1:17:51] If I didn't say that, that was came in the last year, so that doesn't mean multiple years.

[1:17:55] So sorry about that.

[1:17:59] Over time, yes, it was 28% came to a short participant in an education program in the last year.

[1:18:05] was the 28% we presented?

[1:18:10] So, I'm an enthusiastic volunteer at the Kate, and I talk about the expansion to anybody

[1:18:18] who will listen to me, but one of the things I hear frequently is this is going to raise

[1:18:24] my taxes, and I hope that Carl can address that for the town.

[1:18:32] I had an email today, and I answered that question, and I've had several conversations about

[1:18:40] So your taxes are based off three different buckets, education, this building, all the teachers.

[1:18:52] Town government, me, Bill Claffey, paying the people to run your parks programs,

[1:19:08] your

[1:19:09] put out to the market in the past to build a police station to acquire

[1:19:16] town park and all the things that we've bonded over the years, a lot of them

[1:19:21] have rolled off the books. So those are the three buckets that affect your

[1:19:26] taxes. Education budget is about a $32 million budget. The town budget is about a

[1:19:34] 20 million dollar budget. Last year, debt service was 2.617 million, okay? So we paid 2.617

[1:19:44] million last year for projects that we've done in the past. That number right now as we stand

[1:19:53] here today goes to zero in about 14 years, okay? So we would have no debt, but that is an unlikely

[1:20:02] scenario and quite frankly, not a sound strategy for a town that wants to continue to invest

[1:20:12] in its community, whether it's roads, DPW trucks, police stations, new parking

[1:20:18] facilities, there are many towns that keep their debt service at the same level because

[1:20:26] they don't want it to go down because they know eventually they're going to have to keep

[1:20:30] investing. So we've had some debt service roll-off over the years and we're about 2.617 right now.

[1:20:40] Over the last few years we've created a long-term liability fund that has about $1 million in it

[1:20:48] and the idea if these questions pass is to basically, so what happens when you take on debt is

[1:20:58] You have a little spike in your debt service, and then it comes down.

[1:21:04] So the idea with the long-term liability fund is to handle the spike, and it'll come down in a few years to where we are now.

[1:21:14] Now, we may have to increase the debt service budget a little bit next year.

[1:21:19] It's at 2.617, so what I'm going to recommend to any members of the Board of Finance who are here right now.

[1:21:25] Probably next year. We'll probably go to like 2.7 and maybe 2.8 the next year, but it's within 3 or 4 years

[1:21:33] If these questions pass that the debt service comes down to about 2.8 million a year and

[1:21:42] It starts off at 3.1 million. So the idea

[1:21:46] I hope I'm not losing anybody here. I hope this is

[1:21:50] The idea basically is to use the long-term liability fund and that has been the strategy

[1:21:55] We've discussed it with the Board of Finance to offset any spike in debt service that comes.

[1:22:02] So, and to keep the debt service steady, not let it go down as we may be taken on new and different projects over the course of the next 10 years.

[1:22:12] So, the question will it raise my taxes is kind of a funny question, what's more likely to raise your taxes is the education and town government budget next year than the debt service budget.

[1:22:28] The debt service budget.

[1:22:30] It is going to be relatively steady. It won't decrease. So when it decreases, you know, taxes could be, you know, modified a little bit. But we're not going to let it decrease. We're going to keep it steady. So there'll be no decrease decrease in the debt service budget. But the real impact of attacks is really on the education and town service. Is that reasonable for an answer? I mean, yeah, no, I know.

[1:22:57] But it's, so I just want to, that is the strategy, that's the strategy that's been developed with the finance director in with the board of finance.

[1:23:07] We've talked about this.

[1:23:10] There's another hand over here.

[1:23:13] Okay.

[1:23:14] Then I'll come up to you.

[1:23:16] Do that.

[1:23:20] I had that question.

[1:23:23] That was that was part of my question.

[1:23:25] But it just, I don't understand it, so I'm hoping you could explain that without all those big numbers that you have there.

[1:23:32] They're not on profit, right?

[1:23:35] Yes.

[1:23:36] And you're asking the taxpayers to incur this.

[1:23:40] But I just heard about your debt ratio and all that.

[1:23:43] How, it doesn't make sense to me.

[1:23:45] I only run my household.

[1:23:46] So I don't understand how that millions of dollars is not going to affect.

[1:23:59] So when you pay your mortgage over the course of 30 years, you pay more interest in the

[1:24:08] beginning and then less interest and you start paying more principal, but a lot of times

[1:24:13] your payments, sometimes your payments can go down or at least the amount of interest

[1:24:19] your pain is going down. So, the idea is to basically keep the payment steady for what

[1:24:27] we're paying to borrow money for the town and not let debt roll off from previous projects.

[1:24:38] I'm happy to explain it to you if you, I have charts in my office where we've done

[1:24:43] these debt service. Like I said, we're currently paying, I'm just going to use round numbers,

[1:24:49] around 3 million in debt service. We haven't bonded a project in 10 years. So it makes

[1:24:56] sense that our debt level would continue to go down, right? Does that make sense? No? I'm

[1:25:11] weren't they supposed to?

[1:25:15] I guess the question, if I can talk about them, the question

[1:25:18] It seems to be at why is the town taking on obligation for the nonprofit, right, isn't that the question?

[1:25:24] Thank you. Okay. So we have a partnership with the Kate. It's a town building.

[1:25:30] They've asked to expand, to cater to additional needs and services that they see would benefit the town.

[1:25:39] And in the Katherine Hepburn Theatre itself, the town as a partner is willing to put this before the voters.

[1:25:46] So, on September 29th, you can vote yes or no.

[1:25:50] So we are partners with the K in that building right now.

[1:25:54] They've desired to do an expansion.

[1:25:56] The Board of Finance and Board of Selectmen have said, yes to that expansion, but we need

[1:26:02] to hear from the voters.

[1:26:05] Sir,

[1:26:07] well I understand we're doing a very nice thing, giving the K millions of dollars.

[1:26:12] I'll about the key giving back, giving us half price tickets for old cyber, reducing the

[1:26:22] enrichment programs with the families and the kids.

[1:26:26] That's what I would like to say.

[1:26:28] Okay.

[1:26:30] Sure.

[1:26:31] The first reminder in that is, is that the town will still own the building.

[1:26:35] So, well, we do this project together.

[1:26:37] The money that we're raising, we're headed, you know, much of it is going to the town.

[1:26:41] So, we still don't own the building.

[1:26:44] In terms of your ticket question, that is a not-in-easy question to answer because for us,

[1:26:50] every show is contracted.

[1:26:52] If we needed to reduce costs or give half price tickets to an artist, let's say, Grandma Nash

[1:26:59] is coming in, we wouldn't get Grandma Nash, because it costs $X to bring Grandma Nash in,

[1:27:05] and we have to pay that amount.

[1:27:06] So it's not as though at the end of any show,

[1:27:10] we just have lots of money left over.

[1:27:12] The Kate thriving doesn't mean that there are just millions of dollars after shows.

[1:27:18] We have been in the black and we have put some money away for a rainy day.

[1:27:23] I'll give you an example of that rainy day, the pandemic.

[1:27:26] We didn't lay off our staff during the pandemic.

[1:27:28] We only had four full-time staff.

[1:27:29] We have to be physically responsible and be ready for the next thing.

[1:27:32] But ticket prices are set in every single contract for every single show.

[1:27:37] So I don't necessarily have the ability to do that,

[1:27:39] or we just wouldn't exist. It's not part of the current model.

[1:27:43] There may be other ways, Robin mentioned scholarships for camps.

[1:27:47] We do have scholarships for camps. Old-saber presidents can apply for those.

[1:27:52] We also do our scholarship for old-saber presidents.

[1:27:56] In terms of our other givebacks, I'm thinking of celebrate saber.

[1:27:58] we had four people working a 16-hour day and the town didn't pay for that. We just did it.

[1:28:04] You know, it was at some of our equipment, like all those pieces. So we have a unique partnership

[1:28:08] that we work together on those things. I understand that what you're saying that you might not

[1:28:12] see it individually in that way. We're hoping everybody will look at the bigger picture because

[1:28:17] the bigger picture says that it is a good thing for old sabreak. Okay. Well, I'm right here.

[1:28:28] I just like to say that I think the biggest problem we have in this town is we don't set priorities.

[1:28:36] You want to pay, you want over there, you want the busional, I want a community center,

[1:28:43] and I don't think, I don't think the town.

[1:28:47] And look at this, we have 10,000 people, maybe 5,000, we have maybe 5,000 people that so.

[1:28:54] And I don't even think we have 250 people here tonight.

[1:28:59] So I think the biggest issue is priority.

[1:29:03] One of my questions though is because I just have to

[1:29:07] because of my electric bill.

[1:29:10] What type of heating are you going to have in this place?

[1:29:15] Because I'm facing a $750 month electric bill

[1:29:21] And I have a small cake, it went five, six, and seven.

[1:29:26] And I think that we have all these buildings.

[1:29:29] And I want to make sure that they're energy efficient.

[1:29:33] And on top of that, I want to know what happens

[1:29:36] to the money if the town is putting up so much money.

[1:29:41] And then there's going to be another.

[1:29:44] If that other money doesn't come in, who's responsible for the money?

[1:29:51] That's what I want to know.

[1:29:54] Okay, so a question seems to be about A.

[1:29:56] The energy efficiency for the heating and B.

[1:29:58] What happens is something like a tendency.

[1:30:02] So for the energy piece, there are a lot of energy codes now for new buildings. Those are all being met. I don't want to miss speak in terms of answering for our context. I know that the energy efficiency of this building has been a big point of conversation for it. I mean, it will be heated and it will be air conditioned and it is a 7500 square foot space. They have looked at a lot of different models on that. I do know that I don't have the final version to answer for you.

[1:30:30] we can get you that answer if you'd like it, for sure.

[1:30:33] Okay, we'll have to connect after then.

[1:30:34] And the second question just for clear.

[1:30:36] The second question was, I think there wasn't

[1:30:38] talk about some sort of grants that might come

[1:30:40] through to help finance this, what happens if those don't come

[1:30:43] to fruition.

[1:30:45] Oh, got it.

[1:30:46] Okay, so, yes, if the referendum doesn't pass,

[1:30:49] there will be another version that we will need to look at.

[1:30:56] So I think the question was,

[1:30:58] the town is proposing a bond of 6.3 million

[1:31:02] And the key is proposing to raise five million in capital funds.

[1:31:08] I think the question was, what if those funds don't come in, the five million?

[1:31:13] Got it.

[1:31:14] That won't happen because we are just about there right now.

[1:31:17] It is in cash and pledges.

[1:31:19] Because of the pledges, we do have a line of credit to make up the difference in the immediate interim.

[1:31:24] Well, the pledges continue to be paid, and we are still fundraising.

[1:31:28] Thank you.

[1:31:29] I got you here.

[1:31:34] My question is, I don't think many people, including me, understand the least agreement

[1:31:41] between the town and the Cate, in terms of who pays for what, in terms of maintenance,

[1:31:50] heating and electrical bills, as we just mentioned, if the building expands in size will

[1:31:56] least agreement change. So please educate me.

[1:32:03] Do you want to start?

[1:32:04] Or I can?

[1:32:08] Yeah. I mean, we may need to review that.

[1:32:10] That is something that we were just talking about at the other day.

[1:32:14] Currently, there is an agreement that sort of does lay out all of those pieces.

[1:32:18] It is public knowledge if anybody who wanted to see it at that point.

[1:32:22] You know, the town pays electric and civilist pieces.

[1:32:26] We reimburse a certain portion of those pieces.

[1:32:29] There's also some unique pieces where some of the electric

[1:32:31] around the building, the clock out front and all those things,

[1:32:34] are in that building.

[1:32:34] That's why they're kind of married together the way that they are.

[1:32:37] They're not really able to be separated out.

[1:32:38] The Kate also has two electric meters.

[1:32:40] Everything that happens on stage is the second meter,

[1:32:42] and we're paying that out right.

[1:32:45] So that is a part of the equation as well.

[1:32:46] Did you want to add anything to that?

[1:32:55] Don't bother mine.

[1:32:56] nuts and bolts, 7,500 square feet, 11.3 million.

[1:33:03] How much is it per square foot for this extension expansion?

[1:33:09] Without pulling out my iPhone and running that, I don't know off the top of my head.

[1:33:14] I mean, it has been designed.

[1:33:17] It has been refined.

[1:33:19] We've been very careful on the costs.

[1:33:21] that one point, it was over $12 million and we have continued working to bring it down.

[1:33:27] We also know that, for example, for the performance space, it needs to be outfitted

[1:33:31] in the way that people will want to come to that space.

[1:33:34] So if we put a film in the new space that would have been in the existing space, we have to

[1:33:40] make sure that somebody doesn't say, oh, it just wasn't as good, right?

[1:33:43] So we're being careful about that as well.

[1:33:45] I could run that calculation for you, but I don't have it in front of me.

[1:33:57] No, it being a town project, it will go out to bid there will be an RFP that will go

[1:34:03] shortly after the referendum should it be a yes vote and so there will be a full process

[1:34:08] by the town standards for that. We have used a contractor through the process who has been

[1:34:15] doing the quotes for so we have very real numbers. They've done that every few weeks for the

[1:34:25] So is that, well, we're fairly certain that when we turn this over to Bids, we already know

[1:34:31] about where it should come in as opposed to it being a surprise and over a million dollars

[1:34:35] or under a million dollars.

[1:34:36] That's why I've been doing the extra work through the process to ensure that we're right

[1:34:39] on track.

[1:34:42] Thank you.

[1:34:53] Is there going to be areas where people could have meetings or get together, is that going

[1:34:59] to be available for townspeople even if it was rental?

[1:35:03] It is a piece that we are actively working on.

[1:35:06] I think that, so with the agreement with the town,

[1:35:09] there is sort of a hierarchy in terms of how that space

[1:35:12] becomes available.

[1:35:14] After Kate programming, it's town programming,

[1:35:16] and then it's town organizations, like nonprofits.

[1:35:19] We're already doing some of those.

[1:35:22] As the years have gone by, there has been a little bit less of that

[1:35:24] because there has been so much Kate programming.

[1:35:26] So the answer is yes.

[1:35:29] We know that there will be a lot of Kate programming happening

[1:35:32] in it as well, so I don't want to over-promise

[1:35:35] that every last birthday party could be at the K.

[1:35:37] And that's not what we want that space to do.

[1:35:40] If that answers that question?

[1:35:41] Yeah, well, I would like that.

[1:35:43] I also think people complain a lot

[1:35:45] that there's not enough for teenagers to do.

[1:35:49] So if, like you said, kids are aging out of the camp,

[1:35:54] you know, participation.

[1:35:55] If there's something for teenagers,

[1:35:57] where they could learn to sing,

[1:35:59] or a little bit more theatrical, and things to bring them

[1:36:03] a little bit. I think that would be great.

[1:36:06] That is a huge opportunity and area of growth is that teenage population were so limited by space

[1:36:11] right now. It's not something we've been able to work on. So yeah, that is a huge piece of sort

[1:36:16] of the next chapter of the cake. We'd love to partner with Youth and Family Services. I'm programs,

[1:36:20] for example, a lot of opportunity.

[1:36:24] Hi, everyone.

[1:36:27] Me, I'm coming from the, from the, if you look

[1:36:35] the Cirque du Soleil, right? If you look at the Cirque du Soleil, which I came from,

[1:36:42] from Montreal, there's a lot of things that you think was not possible. You think that those

[1:36:47] guys were crazy. But it turned out that this was one of the most successful project that

[1:36:54] they had there, right? It was created in Montreal. So, me what I'm thinking is, I love your project,

[1:37:01] but I don't think that project is for the 2020-26 and beyond that.

[1:37:07] I'm thinking it's pretty soon we'll be able to see, okay, it's feasible right now to see the famous

[1:37:15] people that are dead and make them making a show in front of you. This is all possible.

[1:37:22] And I'm with the lady that was talking here a little bit earlier.

[1:37:28] My big question is...

[1:37:30] Is this stage what we're doing? You're doing extension, but what you see quite often is you built a house and then you built an extension there and another extension there.

[1:37:42] And at the end, this is why I should have built the whole thing right from the beginning. So me, the way I look at it is are we looking at something just enough, but not big enough to be able to be long to the 21st century.

[1:38:00] with all of the new things that the new technology that is coming in.

[1:38:04] Is this building going to be about to fit the new technology?

[1:38:09] I've worked also with the sunizer here, as you know, sunizer is just across here.

[1:38:16] It's in the old line. And sadly, those people are moving. They're moving south.

[1:38:25] But those guys, what they do, they do some amazing stuff.

[1:38:30] okay for the wireless microphone and it's a one so and then when you see it though show what

[1:38:36] those guys do it's beyond what what you could ever think of so my thinking is yeah are we are

[1:38:43] we just put it enough money but not enough that to make this thing put the old saybrook on on the map

[1:38:50] and say hey guys wherever you are in the United States go there because those guys are very different

[1:38:56] those guys have created something that is unbelievable, that you could never see anywhere else.

[1:39:03] Me, what I look at is maybe this project is too small, and it's not, it's not what we need,

[1:39:10] and maybe we need to find another place where we build something that is the 21st century in

[1:39:16] beyond. Thank you. So I guess the question would be, are we going big enough with this project?

[1:39:23] And also explain how this project is incorporating the latest technologies as things develop and how we're going to use those technologies to move it to the future.

[1:39:33] Yeah, I think that's a, those are really great points.

[1:39:36] I think taking one step back, the Kate is a community arts center in a historic building, a historic building that can't change,

[1:39:47] because it's on the National Register of Historic Places.

[1:39:50] So we're not even changing the theater itself in this.

[1:39:54] We're changing pieces that surround the theater.

[1:39:57] Restrooms in other space, et cetera.

[1:40:00] Two-year question, sure.

[1:40:02] It might be great to have a 500-seat theater,

[1:40:04] because we could bring in larger artists.

[1:40:05] There's lots of versions of that,

[1:40:07] but I think we were looking for the very right-sized version for this space.

[1:40:12] I come from a technical background.

[1:40:14] I love all the bells and whistles.

[1:40:15] I love Cirque de Soleil.

[1:40:17] But we're never going to have a video while on the back of our stage.

[1:40:21] I don't think.

[1:40:22] You know, we work with Sennheiser now.

[1:40:24] They're a sponsor of the Kate.

[1:40:25] They're a microphone company for those who don't know.

[1:40:28] We have really quality equipment when artists come to the Kate.

[1:40:33] We frequently hear, especially if they haven't been to the Kate.

[1:40:36] They're coming to a smaller room than they played the night before.

[1:40:38] They get to us.

[1:40:39] Oh my gosh, this room is so much nicer than the thousands of

[1:40:42] and we were in the night before because we've invested so heavily in the technology that we have.

[1:40:47] That's been really important to us.

[1:40:49] So I don't want to go on with that question for a long time.

[1:40:52] I think we're creating the very right version for a historic building that is expanding to do more programming in this additional space.

[1:40:59] The additional space does have its modest still but it does have some bells and whistles for flexibility.

[1:41:05] The center room divides screens that come down. There will be surround sound in the upstairs space so we can do films.

[1:41:10] those kinds of things, you and I could probably talk for days on that, but I think that's the best I can answer for that question.

[1:41:19] Okay, I've seen a couple of repeat hands, and I do see you, and I will try to get to you after I've gone through the first time customers.

[1:41:27] Okay, anybody who hasn't talked to anyone else to say something? Come on over your way.

[1:41:40] I have so many thoughts that I don't even know where to begin.

[1:41:44] But you said that you've been working on this plan for five years was the community involved in the planning.

[1:41:52] Secondly, would it be possible for the town and the Kate to amend your lease agreement?

[1:41:59] I would like to see it in writing that the town folks can use the new addition for ex-number of days for ex-number of times.

[1:42:12] I would like to see it in writing.

[1:42:14] I know that you're focused who's going to be the cake.

[1:42:18] And that's going to come first, and you're sitting in that building, and that's what's

[1:42:22] going to happen.

[1:42:23] I don't feel comfortable with things happening that way.

[1:42:26] I would like to see it in writing and amendment to the least, or an MOU, so that the towns

[1:42:31] folks know that that new addition that we're paying for more than half of is going

[1:42:36] to be, you can be used by the town folks.

[1:42:38] I love the Kate, also I forgot to say that.

[1:42:42] It's a gem, it's a jewel for our town, I really love it.

[1:42:46] I'm just concerned, it's such a beautiful space,

[1:42:49] the cost per square foot is way too high

[1:42:52] for a performing arts center.

[1:42:55] You have those, the windows are gorgeous,

[1:42:59] they're hugely expensive.

[1:43:00] I just want to know have you done value engineering,

[1:43:03] enough value engineering, could you have given us

[1:43:07] choices and option, one design, over another design. I just feel like this is being pushed

[1:43:14] on me a little bit too quickly and I just have too many questions about how things are

[1:43:22] going to happen in the future. And I'm just going to, I hope you don't mind if I keep going.

[1:43:27] And I thought that you're going to be increasing seats by 30, 35%. I'm assuming that number

[1:43:33] is coming from the 90 new seats that you're adding on for the addition, but you don't know if it's

[1:43:39] going to be apples to apples, you don't know if the number of seats in the case original performing

[1:43:46] area are going to have, I mean, they fill up so quickly and you get sold out and you have shows

[1:43:56] how many like 200 and 200, at least 200 days out of the year you have chose 416 events last year.

[1:44:05] Okay, so then do you know that you're going to have 460 events in the new 90 seats space?

[1:44:12] So you don't know that, so I don't like using the 35% increase in seats available.

[1:44:20] And thus your economic impact is going to be that it's going to increase by the same amount.

[1:44:25] I just really think that I feel like we need to have more information, and this is happening just too quickly, and I love you guys

[1:44:33] but I just would like to know more and make sure that things were looked out, and who is going to be monitoring the budget?

[1:44:44] Does the town just give you $6 million and assume that it's going to the general contractor?

[1:45:03] So, I think the question is still, so the question seems to be what level of community input has there been in the five years leading up to this presentation and the comments seem to be on the lines of the projections might be a little bit rosy in our reconstrule that they are realistic enough and that we're not sort of, you know, just looking at rainbows and not looking at possible storms.

[1:45:26] And so looking at writing about town use of the bill.

[1:45:29] Sure, so I can touch on those quickly.

[1:45:33] So in terms of the town input piece,

[1:45:37] there have been, what's the order I'm looking for,

[1:45:41] not workshops, but we have done feasibility studies.

[1:45:44] We've done surveys for people who have wanted to participate.

[1:45:48] You know, I have we reached every single person,

[1:45:51] probably not.

[1:45:52] You know, I, it's probably similar to the DPW Garage.

[1:45:56] You know, they designed what they thought was best.

[1:45:58] that's how we've treated this as well.

[1:46:00] There was more glass, previously.

[1:46:02] We've value engineered quite a lot in this space.

[1:46:07] We want it to be modest, but we wanted to remain a show place.

[1:46:11] That's 300 Main Street is now,

[1:46:12] so that people coming from out of town

[1:46:14] see old sabreck out their best when they're there.

[1:46:17] What was the next piece of the question?

[1:46:20] Town use.

[1:46:22] I mean, that is a public document,

[1:46:23] so you could have already looked at it.

[1:46:25] I don't know what the next step for that would be.

[1:46:28] It exists, it has existed for two decades, and there is a hierarchy in terms of how that gets used and what was in the last piece.

[1:46:37] I'm trying to remember, there's one more piece of the question.

[1:46:40] Well, how comfortable you are with the opposite versus pastime.

[1:46:43] Yeah, so the projection piece I could bore you with Excel's and calendars and how it would be used.

[1:46:50] We have spent five years working on this.

[1:46:52] We have a pretty good idea of how that space is going to function, what kinds of things will be in there.

[1:46:58] what things we're already doing that we would move from the larger theater to the smaller space

[1:47:03] because it's more appropriate. What things we would we've tested, you know, we've done

[1:47:07] paint nights and all sorts of different things, you know, so there might be one of those a month.

[1:47:11] We have a really good outlook in terms of what can come to that space. I didn't present that whole piece

[1:47:16] because that could be days worth of work. We've spent a lot of time on it. I certainly hear your question.

[1:47:22] We, you know, could have a separate conversation offline about that, but we have put a lot of work into

[1:47:26] that. Can I tell you what's exactly 35%? No, I can't. But could be higher. That's super

[1:47:34] true. I think, you know, I've been running the Kate for the last 12 years. I'm probably

[1:47:39] the person in the room best suited to at least make that projection and have done that

[1:47:43] work. And that's what I'm doing. That's the best I can do on that. But the Kate has a proven

[1:47:48] track record when this came before the town 20 years ago. Nobody even knew what it was

[1:47:53] going to do when I think it succeeded everybody's expectations in that way.

[1:47:57] Thank you.

[1:48:05] That was hold for the applause, Brett.

[1:48:08] So I'm an old-savic native.

[1:48:10] Yep, true.

[1:48:11] Born here, which is school here.

[1:48:13] Which is school where the town hall is.

[1:48:17] I am one of the people that was in on the early planning of the building.

[1:48:24] I didn't get invited to contribute walk-through plan.

[1:48:28] No, I just, you know, this has been in the works a long time.

[1:48:35] I have no skin in the game here.

[1:48:37] Look at that beautiful building.

[1:48:40] What if that was not on our town green?

[1:48:43] The front of that building is historic.

[1:48:46] That's our past.

[1:48:49] The middle of us in our entry, this is where I stand at the front door

[1:48:52] and greet patrons that come in and ask them if they've been here before.

[1:48:57] And when they said they have in their first time, I said,

[1:49:01] where the heck have you been?

[1:49:03] Here should be here.

[1:49:04] Everybody from Saber should have been here.

[1:49:07] The back, the new part, is the future.

[1:49:14] The windows overlook the beautiful green.

[1:49:17] That's a historic green.

[1:49:20] That's where we have our ceremonies.

[1:49:22] That's where when you go out to the night,

[1:49:23] they're laying the flags on the green.

[1:49:26] It's beautiful.

[1:49:27] So this

[1:49:31] is our town, we are proud of it, we have saved this old building that they tried

[1:49:39] to take down.

[1:49:40] Many of us had to vote a couple of times to say, yes, we want to save this building.

[1:49:46] And we have saved this building, it is beautiful inside, it is alive, it is active.

[1:49:54] For everything, whether you like the opera or you like comedy or whatever, there's something

[1:50:00] is building for you.

[1:50:06] Every Friday during the summer, the kids and they are future, have the most

[1:50:15] magnificent time. I served in cookies and lemonade after their performance. They are joyful.

[1:50:24] They are our future. We hope, I hope AI doesn't take over everything. We hope that culture and

[1:50:33] performing arts will continue and that's what we're doing this for for the future for our

[1:50:41] kids and yes for us and for ukulele class and that addition and you want windows and

[1:50:48] you want to just going there's been a lot put into this and there are a lot of other people

[1:50:54] the other half of this project is coming from the people that believe in this that are trying

[1:51:01] make this work and it's still going to be a town building. And if you don't understand the finances,

[1:51:09] I could probably help explain that to you too. So, you know, there's a lot of parts to this.

[1:51:17] There's a lot of choices for the town. It was interesting on the budget part of that,

[1:51:22] a little part. It is, but there's been so much good planning for this town. So a lot to be proud of

[1:51:29] of how this town runs, the people that come from everywhere across the country to

[1:51:36] show us here are just saying this is the magnificent place you have and we

[1:51:41] have it and we want to preserve it and we want to carry it forward for whatever

[1:51:45] responsibility we can carry it forward to. So, there we go.

[1:51:59] Anybody else who doesn't have a chance to meet it? Okay, don't.

[1:52:05] I'll be really, really quick.

[1:52:08] There was a portion talking about how, you know, the local aspect of this and so forth.

[1:52:14] The only thing I really want to point out is that the K is its own separate business.

[1:52:20] You are your own nonprofit, you are your own organization.

[1:52:25] The town just owns the building, said organization, business is in.

[1:52:30] There is nothing stopping the cake from ever relocating. They could most certainly go to a different

[1:52:36] town. And I'm not saying you as people, I'm just the over, they could leave. And guess what?

[1:52:43] It's, we have a beautiful, we'll be left with a beautiful theater in a historic building.

[1:52:49] But that's it, the shell of one. So it's not like we are investing in the town with this bond.

[1:52:56] We are investing in a private organization that ultimately, and I'm not saying you're going to do this,

[1:53:04] but Black and White could close its doors and move on.

[1:53:09] I mean, but that's really what it is.

[1:53:10] We're not investing in, you know, our school infrastructures or, you know, town parks or land use department.

[1:53:18] This bond is for a private organization and that's all I have to say.

[1:53:24] I still do love the kid.

[1:53:28] Okay, coming back around.

[1:53:30] Another comment over here.

[1:53:38] Thank you.

[1:53:39] I'll offer a full disclosure.

[1:53:40] I am on the Board of Trustees.

[1:53:42] My name's Sandy Hart.

[1:53:43] I've been a fan of the Kate since its beginnings.

[1:53:48] I've been a fan of Catherine Hepburn.

[1:53:50] Since I grew up in old line.

[1:53:53] And spent many times in Old Sabre because well.

[1:53:56] The Kate cannot leave.

[1:53:57] And I would dispute that because the Kate is Catherine Hepburn and her paradise, and that

[1:54:05] as right here, I'm 300 Main Street, and her legacy lives on because of it in the museum.

[1:54:12] Please come if you haven't been, but no.

[1:54:16] They will not leave, they will not go anywhere because they are tied to this place of Kate's paradise.

[1:54:26] further

[1:54:34] comments, okay? One more. We'll do one more if anyone else is anything new to say.

[1:54:40] Or has it already have jammed?

[1:54:43] We went through this over two decades ago when it is a town property that was going to be up for change.

[1:54:54] And they were supposed to be this interaction with the towns people.

[1:54:58] And we were told, yes, you can utilize space once it gets done, yada yada, and then it came

[1:55:06] up at a meeting that know that the taxpayers who were helping to get this initiative off

[1:55:15] the ground would have to utilize the Catherine Theatre's ticket masters or their people renting

[1:55:26] their rooms in order to have a celebration. So I just wanted to clarify because somebody said

[1:55:31] something about a birthday party and this was brought up in the very beginning and hasn't

[1:55:39] been utilized. It wasn't even mentioned it as a meeting room when we lost the pavilion for

[1:55:45] a meeting.

[1:55:49] Thank you. This is the same. Is there a rendering that shows the addition from the

[1:55:57] straight straight on, so you could see the impact it has on the town hall in the green.

[1:56:04] This would be, there is not a rendering that shows that.

[1:56:08] We do have another version that was the building height study.

[1:56:12] The flat roof of that expansion portion is lower than the flat roof of each end of town hall

[1:56:18] that helps to answer your question.

[1:56:21] That was important to the conversation about what looked appropriate on the town green.

[1:56:26] But

[1:56:30] we're intending to ask how it affects the historic building

[1:56:37] site line when you're looking at the historic building from the front.

[1:56:42] Okay, that was a criteria with the State Historic Preservation Office that you cannot

[1:56:47] alter your site line view of the historic building if you're adding on.

[1:56:52] So we did pass that at the very least, they don't mind seeing the progression in time of

[1:56:57] the additions, but they don't want anything hindering the front of the building.

[1:57:06] Is

[1:57:10] there a number has the town anticipated what the expense for meeting its lease agreement

[1:57:19] to maintain the property or to provide utilities support?

[1:57:26] How that number, what that number is going forward, that is how it increases in the budget,

[1:57:33] What's the budget impact if that has been figured?

[1:57:42] We haven't completed that, no.

[1:57:50] So when the Kate put in the irrigation a few years ago,

[1:57:54] so the Kate pays a small amount to the town every year,

[1:57:58] every month, but it was 500, or yeah, it was,

[1:58:03] they'll 500, yeah.

[1:58:05] So it was $500 a month, 6,000 a year,

[1:58:07] which we put into an off budget account in case

[1:58:11] we needed it for repairs to the key.

[1:58:14] They put an irrigation a few years ago,

[1:58:16] and because the town pays the water in that

[1:58:20] on the outside of the building, or the water bill for the key,

[1:58:24] they said, hey, we want to contribute more.

[1:58:27] So, Kate is now contributing 575 a month

[1:58:30] to pay for the additional water usage.

[1:58:32] So, I anticipate that if we get to a point

[1:58:35] where this passes and we move forward

[1:58:39] with the construction that we'll talk about, you know, if there needs to be additional contribution

[1:58:46] to offset expenses, but I don't anticipate any of that will be a problem.

[1:58:54] Any last questions before I move through adjourn? Over here.

[1:59:09] Hi. Is there a schematic that shows the actual feet coming away from the building,

[1:59:15] heading towards the green so that we could actually go out and kind of get an idea of where

[1:59:24] the footprint is of this built this addition.

[1:59:27] There is, yes, it's roughly 20 because the sidewalk that goes from the main street to the

[1:59:34] town green, it looks like it's straight, but it is not, it varies, I believe, from 18 to 22 feet

[1:59:40] from the building.

[1:59:41] That's off its top of my head, I would have to confirm that for you, but yes, I mean construction

[1:59:44] drawings are well down the road. So that does exist. Where do we see that? Well,

[1:59:51] yeah, I mean, the slide, but it doesn't have the measurement on it. I mean, you could

[1:59:55] stop by the gate. We could find that answer out. But I don't have that.

[2:00:00] Directly in front of me, certainly have a very measurement in my head for this, but it is roughly 20 feet from that sidewalk to the building.

[2:00:10] Okay.

[2:00:16] Thank you, everyone. I just want to thank everybody for coming out tonight. These sorts of things don't happen as well without a lot of public inputs.

[2:00:23] So thank you for coming out and listening. Tell your friends, tell your neighbors who couldn't be here tonight, what you learned tonight, what your concerns are.

[2:00:29] And I will hereby move to adjourn the special town meeting and the above item shall be submitted

[2:00:36] to a referendum vote on the voting tabulators on paper ballots by town electors and qualified

[2:00:42] voters for approval or disapproval on Tuesday, September 29th between the hours of 12 p.m.

[2:00:48] noon and 8 p.m.

[2:00:51] On favor?

[2:00:54] Very good.

[2:00:54] Thank you.

[2:00:55] Thank you.

Old Saybrook Special Town Meeting - September 9 2026

Transcript