[0:00] It's 10 o'clock. I call the meeting to order. Welcome to the april, 2026

[0:05] meeting of the akima county wetlands board. While

[0:09] going through introductory remarks, please take the time to silence. Turn off

[0:13] all cell devices. The board consists of five members.

[0:18] approval of all permits requires a majority vote or three yay votes.

[0:22] today we have all five member presence. We have a quorum

[0:26] from my right to left. Mr. Gick vice chair, mr. Ward,

[0:30] mr. Taylor and mr. Badger. I'm t lee bird quorum is

[0:34] established with a, uh, minimum of three board members

[0:38] present. Uh, if I may introduce our staff and

[0:43] guest present, we have, uh, ms. Ginger harmon, who is administrative assistant,

[0:47] mr. Paul watson, deputy director of code administration.

[0:51] uh, ms. Ms. Claire gorman, general marine resources

[0:55] commission, vmrc. And mr. Pbit can't be here. He has another

[1:00] meeting. The wetlands board is aware of and, uh, complies

[1:04] as closely as possible to the objectives of the virginia marine

[1:08] resources commission policy of no net loss. All

[1:12] persons speaking for this board will be sworn in.

[1:19] alright. Um, so if we will please,

[1:24] uh, let's, uh, talk about the agenda. I hope

[1:28] everyone has had a copy of the agenda I've had in mind for some time.

[1:33] uh, has everybody had a chance to look it over? Any questions, comments,

[1:38] then I ask for a motion to accept the agenda. Second, mr. Chairman.

[1:43] thank you. A second please. Alright, and vote.

[1:47] aye. Aye. We have accepted the agenda

[1:52] minutes, um, after some minor changes. Thank you,

[1:56] sir. Um, we have, um, would appear to be

[2:00] clear minutes from the march 24th meeting. Has everyone had time to

[2:04] look over the minutes from the march meeting?

[2:09] any questions, comments? As for a motion

[2:13] to accept mr. Chairman, make a motion to accept the minutes. Thank

[2:17] you, sir. Second, please. Aye. Thank you, sir.

[2:21] vote please. Aye, minutes are in the book. I abstain. I wasn't here.

[2:26] mm. Alright, we're gonna move on. And our

[2:30] first topic is old business nu number four.

[2:35] um, the first subject is 4.01,

[2:40] which is, uh, mr. Michael pulaski that I think we all know. Mr. Watson,

[2:45] may I swear you in, please? Do you affirm or swear you tell the truth, whole truth, nothing

[2:49] but the truth in all matters before this board? I did. Thank you, sir. Would you, uh,

[2:54] tell us probably what we already know, but anything that is current,

[2:58] um, slides, put 'em out of order, but, uh,

[3:02] I did visit the site last week and take two quick pictures. Um, it does appear

[3:07] as if, uh, some grass is growing back, but the gravel has

[3:11] not been removed and does not appear any

[3:15] efforts have been made at restoration. Um, of course, pictures

[3:19] can speak for themselves as to what has been done or hadn't been done.

[3:24] uh, that's, uh, as you're looking out towards shiite bay, that's to the right

[3:28] and that's to the left. I guess this grass area in the middle

[3:33] you can, is visible in both pictures. Um, yes sir, but this is the

[3:37] affected area.

[3:43] um, I'll also report that mr. Pulaski, in addition to

[3:47] the filings that I've, uh, presented to the

[3:51] board that he's made about this particular violation, he also submitted

[3:56] a, uh, everybody get this, everybody know? Yes.

[4:00] um, a, uh, I, I, I guess he wants, I guess the best way

[4:04] to put it, he wants the board to investigate on everything that's happened with the gabby and walls.

[4:09] and I responded to him that I did not,

[4:15] uh, believe there was any basis for a sworn complaint because number one, the gabby and walls

[4:19] are now in, uh, outside the board's jurisdiction. Yes, sir. Sir.

[4:23] and while they were originally permitted by the board, I saw no evidence that

[4:27] they were constructed improperly. And this was dating back decades ago. Um,

[4:32] and, and there's no evidence they were constructed improperly or there was any violation of that

[4:36] permit and invited him to come to the board during open session

[4:41] if he thought that I was incorrect or he had a basis for some type of violation

[4:45] he wanted to present to the board. And he's not here

[4:49] and he's not here. He, he did in at least one of the emails

[4:53] that I got, um, he indicated that he would, uh, not be on the eastern

[4:57] shore, not in captains cove until sometime mid-may. Um, that's

[5:02] when he was complaining about the april 15 deadline. And, and he

[5:06] did indicate to me he was not gonna be back. He could not do it by the

[5:10] deadline because he physically would not be back on the shore. Um,

[5:15] and so obviously he hasn't complied with what the board has ordered him

[5:19] to do. Um, I, well, obviously I have

[5:23] no idea what he's planning to do when he gets back, whether he's planning to comply or not.

[5:27] well, uh, first of all, he's had more

[5:31] time than anyone else I can remember on a project since I've

[5:36] been doing this. And secondly, um, I hope he's, well,

[5:40] I hope he's not in the hospital, but if he's just outta town then um,

[5:46] he probably should have been here or had a representative here if he was that, uh,

[5:50] intent on proving that we're wrong.

[5:55] anyway, uh, what else do you have on this particular subject?

[6:00] that's all. Alright, um, mr. Chair, just of curiosity,

[6:04] did he ask for an extension of deadline from april 15th?

[6:09] I mean, I, that's something that, you know, we can maybe discuss a little bit. Um,

[6:14] I guess I could charitably say that he asked, he, he objected to the board,

[6:19] uh, imposing the deadline by emailing me saying he didn't agree

[6:23] with it. Um, I mean, he's definitely indicated that he,

[6:28] uh, could not abide by it because he was not gonna be here and that

[6:32] he never agreed to it in the first place. Um,

[6:36] so that's, I mean, he, okay. I mean, he, he has been in communication

[6:41] with me, but ob obviously, it also looks like he hasn't done anything for

[6:45] the last however many months, almost a year. I so

[6:49] agree with mr. The chair here regards to the situation, but obviously

[6:53] we want something done. Would it be just to ask him what timeframe

[6:58] is he looking at? Maybe? I mean, I, well,

[7:03] I I guess what I'm getting, he hasn't said he's not going to do it, it's just a

[7:07] timeframe or am I mistaken about that? Um, that is correct. He, he

[7:11] is, uh, I'd say the sum total of the communications with him,

[7:18] uh, are not exactly positive in, in think in thinking he's gonna

[7:22] do it, but, but he has never actually said, I am not going to do it. Te tell us, please,

[7:26] uh, what our options are. Let's assume for the moment right

[7:31] now, let's just say for the moment, I don't think he's

[7:35] gonna do anything. Uh, educate us, please.

[7:49] um, so it's, uh, section 1 0 2 4 0 1.

[7:55] uh, subsection c any person who, uh,

[7:59] violates an order of the wetlands board, um, is

[8:03] guilty of a class one misdemeanor every day. The

[8:07] violation continues as a separate offense. Um,

[8:15] and then there's a little bit of a strange section. Um, well,

[8:19] it does say that without limiting the remedies which may be obtained under this chapter, any person who violates

[8:24] any provision of this chapter, um, or fails to obey a wetlands

[8:28] board order, uh, shall upon

[8:32] finding of the circuit court be assessed a civil penalty not to exceed,

[8:37] uh, $25,000 a day. And,

[8:41] um,

[8:47] and, and, and, and, and this is the strange part is that it also says that

[8:52] with the consent of the person who violated the order, the

[8:56] board can assess a penalty up to $10,000. Yes, sir. And I, the

[9:00] only way that makes sense is if somebody does not, you know, is fearful

[9:05] of going to circuit court, they could appear and consent to a yes, your honor,

[9:09] lesser penalty. So it, it seems like the only two options

[9:13] are either, well, there are several options, but it's, but the escalating

[9:17] options are to refer it over, uh, to the commonwealth's

[9:21] attorney to go to court or offer mr. Pulaski

[9:26] a lesser fine that he would consent to. Obviously, we could also give him additional time

[9:30] to see if he does anything when he gets back in mid bay. Mr. Chairman,

[9:34] um, I, I called paul matter, he just left the place. 20 minutes

[9:38] of this. This is exactly what I, what I, and I think hank had the same

[9:42] thing about this. This fix is so easy. I know we told him to plant,

[9:46] I mean, to, to fill and plant and the real world. This area is dynamic,

[9:51] but it's also, if, if only if you got any pictures of his neighbor's grass is the,

[9:55] the grass growing on its own. As you can see, that's a lot of the 10 by 10 area.

[9:59] to me, it just takes the raking, not even the filling of it. And replanting to

[10:03] me, it just, if you rake out the, the small rocks, it'll grow.

[10:08] and that's, I mean, like I said, that's really what I thought when I called you. You know what I'm saying? You just left

[10:12] there and you said, yeah, I got a lot of growth. He's doing nothing. Uh, I agree with

[10:16] you, it comes, but what I'm saying is, but the, the who was the original contractor on this,

[10:20] uh, jeff brown, he's the one who had all the problems with doing the work in captains,

[10:24] go without permits. And he, I mean, like I said, in the real world,

[10:28] the fix is so easy. And like I said, I know we told 'em to fill and

[10:33] plant, but in the real world, all that, all that's fine, fine stones is

[10:37] just gotta be rigged out and you're talking about a four hour job.

[10:41] let's, let's, uh, do this the way we should do it, which is hold

[10:45] back for comments. But, uh, we talked about it. And, uh,

[10:51] uh, one last thing before we, uh,

[10:55] open it, we continue to give time and

[10:59] time and time. What's that do to the people

[11:04] that try to do it correctly and come here and say, thank you in 30 days

[11:08] I'll have x, y, and z done. If we continue to let this go on and on and

[11:12] on, I just wonder if I think about it for a moment. Anything else, sir? Um, I would say

[11:16] it's a little ironic that one of his main complaints is he's saying that he's been treated un

[11:20] or unequally or not fairly because of all the other problems

[11:24] we've had over the past year. But obviously the board knows, well, every other circumstance,

[11:29] the offender has come in and made right, uh, pretty quickly

[11:34] and also taken action almost immediately to start the process to make right.

[11:38] and that's why this particular case is being treated

[11:42] differently is because everybody else comes in and, and, and fixes

[11:47] the problem on and, and starts immediately. Everybody is

[11:51] innocent. Uh, just go over there and start asking them. Mm-hmm. Uh, jail.

[11:55] everybody's innocent. . Um, thank you, sir. Anything else?

[11:59] that's it. I'd like to close the floor. Anyone else wish to speak about

[12:04] this particular, uh, violation or jpa?

[12:10] um, I'm gonna close it, open it to the floor, close

[12:14] it. Now I'm gonna open it up to board discussion and I'd like to hear from

[12:18] everyone starting with you. You had a question that I kind shut you down. Well, I just

[12:22] based, say it again. Well, I just based that the gentleman, mr. Polowski's out of town right now. So he's not

[12:27] at his house there in captain coat. Correct? I that's what

[12:31] he's told me. And, and when I went by there, I didn't see anybody, but that's

[12:35] okay. So I, I have to say where I'm at, I know it might sound hard for us to do this,

[12:39] but I'm willing to give him a couple more months when the growing season

[12:44] and get this done. That's my first thought in regards to this. I don't feel

[12:49] like I want to impose any fines at the moment, but

[12:53] that's what, that's the way I'm leaning in that regards to give him. But I

[12:57] think it's important for him to communicate to us what is

[13:01] the timeframe that he wants. Because the way I remember, I think I was the one that

[13:05] sort of went with the discussion of april 15th, and it was my understanding

[13:09] that he would be back in the area april, may of this year. And I

[13:14] think we decide we want it done sooner than later. And that's why we

[13:18] went with april the way my memory tells me. Um, and, uh,

[13:22] that's correct. He did not give us a date. Okay. And when he did not give us a date,

[13:26] the board imposed it. Okay. And when I communicated to him, he imme, he immediately said

[13:30] he didn't agree with it. And I communicated back, I mean, the board obviously knows you

[13:34] don't agree with it. I mean, or they don't know you don't agree with it, but they imposed

[13:38] it. If you don't agree with it, then you can show up at the next meeting,

[13:42] you know, do a number of things. But, well

[13:46] then I guess maybe I'm, I'm leaning into a more of a lenient way here is

[13:51] just to ask him, when do you want it done? Is it gonna be may,

[13:55] june, july? What's, you know, what, uh, what, what, what day,

[13:59] what month would he like to have it done in this case? That's, that's how

[14:03] I'm thinking about it. Um,

[14:08] if, if the board cares about my preference, I'd prefer the board to give

[14:12] him a date because I, my communications with

[14:16] him have not been all that productive. We can let

[14:20] him kick his can down the road till we drop dead of old age if we

[14:25] don't do that. Yeah. Uh, but I, I want to go around the room, first of all,

[14:29] um, anything else, uh, I'd like to hear from the other board about this. So what I,

[14:34] mr. Ward, uh, what do you gotta say about this? Knowing of the facts and how long it's

[14:38] been in his attitude? I,

[14:43] he's not being

[14:48] very, uh, helpful in

[14:52] the situation. And

[14:57] it appears that he don't think it's any of his fault. It's our fault.

[15:02] well, if he would just abide by our decisions, everything would be good.

[15:11] I, I wouldn't mind giving him to another

[15:16] 60 days, but inform him that at

[15:20] the end of the 60 days, if it's not completed,

[15:25] uh, there will be civil action statements.

[15:32] okay. Uh, my view,

[15:36] if we allow him to just continue to, uh, do nothing,

[15:41] then, uh, why shouldn't everyone expect that we've given him time

[15:46] and time and time again? Uh, I can't imagine

[15:51] with looking and getting ready to have mr. Taylor

[15:55] tell you all that needs to be done, uh, which is

[16:00] a very small thing that we all see there. Uh,

[16:05] what I suggest is that we lean on you,

[16:09] mr. Watson, to try to find him one more time and just

[16:13] flat out ask him, uh, how much longer he want

[16:18] wants, will he be here next month? Uh, will he

[16:22] have it repaired inside of next month or he just doesn't care? That's

[16:26] all. Talk to us police. We, we directed him to fill in plant.

[16:32] and, uh, like I said, you just happened to be there when I called him. This is what I was expected

[16:36] to see. But you can see the reason that really growth area,

[16:40] white big build. There's, there's, uh, stone sort, lake crushing

[16:44] nun, you know, find mills there. You, if you don't, does anybody disagree?

[16:48] maybe with that little pile of, uh, stone, uh, crushed

[16:52] stone, wasn't there, that that would, that would've, that grass would've grown? Sure. It's grown around

[16:57] it, right? It's grown around it. So to me, I would even back off on what we told

[17:01] him to do, which was filling plant, which is, and we're, and the simplest thing

[17:05] in the world would be to rake the millings

[17:09] out of that area. And I really think it's gonna go back on its own. And you're talking about something that would take four hours.

[17:15] and to me that I can't, and I can't, I, as, as a board member, and I'm the one

[17:19] that talked, I don't think you, I think you're gonna along way that time. I'm the one that said plant and,

[17:23] and, and, you know, fill in plant. But this is so much easier than filling and planting. It's

[17:27] just raking the st raking the stuff out where you get down to, to the natural. And I believe

[17:31] it will grow on its own. And that's, if you can't do that, then

[17:35] first of all, we gotta find out, uh, is if he's suggesting

[17:39] I'm doing nothing or love to, we need to find that out.

[17:44] uh, this is a whole lot less work and a lot less in a three year

[17:48] planting plan. I believe, like you said, I believe you just rake the stuff out. It would grow on its own. That's

[17:52] the reason why I called you and you told me what I thought. And, and, and hank had the same thinking. It would grow

[17:56] on its own if it didn't get choked out by the, the thick, the thick rock and

[18:00] the, and the re of it. I really think you take that out. I believe it would grow back on its own

[18:05] no matter what. Uh, gotta have a monitoring

[18:09] plan in place, no matter what we choose to do about this.

[18:13] let him, I think you mentioned it, a three year monitoring

[18:18] plan that we can take a look at. And, uh, if it's not growing, then

[18:22] he's gonna have to fix it no matter what. Okay. Mr. Badger got

[18:26] your book open. Uh, yeah. I, I I just wanna make sure that

[18:30] we followed the correct procedure in this, this violation.

[18:34] uh, so paul, can you kind of go over what has happened from,

[18:39] uh, when you found the violation and then, uh,

[18:43] uh, I know that you gave him a, a cease or you had stopped the work order

[18:48] on him and then, uh, then the sworn

[18:52] complaint was filed, or sworn complaint was filed for the first meeting.

[18:56] I presented that to the board mm-hmm . And then at the next meeting, I gave him notice that it

[19:00] would, the sworn complaint would be heard. Okay. And the board

[19:04] ordered a restoration plan. He provided one. There

[19:09] were a few months where we didn't have meetings. Mm-hmm . So I think it was, uh, several months

[19:13] later he provided the restoration plan. Um, at that point,

[19:17] uh, he did not have a, an overhead for the restoration

[19:21] plan. Mm-hmm . Uh, he provided that. And then the last issue

[19:26] was the deadline. And he did not, had not provided a deadline.

[19:30] when we got to the meeting, uh, the subsequent meeting, the board imposed the

[19:34] april 15 deadline. I would say that would probably have been the november meeting, I think off

[19:38] the top of my head, to the best of my recollection, uh, where

[19:42] the board imposed the april 15 deadline. So it was a series of mm-hmm

[19:46] . Requests that he, you know, fill in the gaps

[19:50] of his plan. Mm-hmm . So the original, uh, sworn complaint

[19:54] in the hearing, that subsequent hearing, uh, we gave him more than

[19:58] 30 days notice. Yes. Okay. Um, I, because that's part of the process. Yes.

[20:02] okay. Yeah, I, the rules aren't exactly clear about

[20:06] the sworn complaint. So the, my practice is

[20:10] to present the sworn complaint at one meeting and then have it heard at the next meeting with 30

[20:14] days notice. Okay. Um, I, I think that follows

[20:19] what the rules require, or at least that's being safe, I think, as to what the rules require.

[20:24] so we, we've gone through the process. He has submitted the information

[20:28] for restoration. At this point, he just has not done the restoration,

[20:32] is that correct? That is correct. I, it certainly,

[20:37] if he's done it, it, it's not apparent from, from what I've seen or, or done anything.

[20:41] it, it appears as if he's done nothing but mm-hmm . I, I can't say for certain, but

[20:45] it doesn't appear as if he's done done it. So really we have two options. We can either give him

[20:49] another continuance for whatever number of days or whatever months,

[20:54] or we can just turn it over to, uh, the, uh, the court system.

[20:58] correct. Yes. I, I, those are two options. Uh, well, and the third option

[21:02] is to ask him if he wants to agree to a fine, but well, a fine doesn't

[21:06] take care of the problem. Uh, if that's correct, if, if he agrees to

[21:10] a fine, what happens? Uh, we, somebody spends the money to fix

[21:15] it or he has to fix it anyway. Um,

[21:19] I do not believe that

[21:23] either going to court and being fined or or accepting a fine

[21:27] from this board relieves him of his original obligation. I expect

[21:32] it. So I guess what you're saying is basically right. Yeah. And it just, once again,

[21:36] yes, uh, strikes me as, uh,

[21:40] he thinks he's right. Um, you, you everyone read the

[21:44] letter from his neighbor or neighbors that, uh, they think that he can walk

[21:48] on water, he saved them. Uh,

[21:53] but nevertheless, I think hank, you hit the nail on the head and we need to

[21:57] decide right now, uh, what we're gonna do, um,

[22:03] I guess I have a two-parter here. Do we can go with what mr.

[22:07] badger just said, extend it continuance, which I sort of

[22:11] where I'm leaning, but essentially, do we have to modify what we want

[22:15] him to do? Because what, right now, it sounds like mr. Taylor would just want him to rake

[22:19] it first and see what happens. And then if need

[22:23] be down the road, a monitoring plan, replant if it's necessary. Does

[22:27] that sums it up and, and in the real world, like you say,

[22:31] I mean, to me, that's what I was thinking. I think it was thinking that it's gonna grow back and why it's not growing back

[22:36] is, like I say, the, the, the little stone and stuff. It won't, it won't, can't

[22:40] get through it. Um, yeah, that's the original was planted and

[22:44] I think that would be, um, really a tougher grill than raking it.

[22:48] and like you say, it's, it's a lot more simple for 'em. It costs no money, costs no

[22:52] money for fuel. It costs no money for the plants.

[22:57] and, and it's going now, now when y'all, y'all were there, uh, out of that

[23:01] 10, 10 area, how much is left? That's un and I know we also, we can see the reason why

[23:05] it's not grown, but what is, what is, what is that area left that's not, uh,

[23:09] vegetated in that 10 10 area? You understand what I'm saying?

[23:13] some of that 10, 10 area has already naturally grown in. Well, if that's, that's, you say, I would say

[23:18] the area in, uh,

[23:22] maybe 28 square feet out of the a hundred

[23:26] maybe. Do you underst what I'm saying? Maybe a little less. So I really feel that's what I'm saying. I really feel,

[23:30] and like we had the case of last week, it grows back.

[23:35] I could say it's already, it's right to have that and we wanna have that plant plan, but if

[23:39] storms and stuff take, takes it, as long as it grows back and we see it, it's

[23:43] growing back and, and we need to be monitoring ourselves, do the thing, seeing it going

[23:47] back. And then for, like I said, it's not, if it does go back and then storm takes and stuff,

[23:51] we already had that conversation last week and then nothing nobody can do about that.

[23:56] uh, for what god takes. But again, I could say that's what, that's what my thinking was when I called

[24:00] you. And to me, I could say, and it would take

[24:04] very little time for the, and like I said, if, if you, if you can't do that,

[24:09] it's not gonna work out. So I think we're at the point we either

[24:13] need to stick with what we've already given him extensions for

[24:17] and determine how much more time he needs. We'll,

[24:22] uh, say you get half that, you get all that or change the

[24:26] whole game and do what you're talking about. Call him, give him x

[24:30] number of days to get that done, or we're going to file. Is that where we stand right now?

[24:36] yeah. I, I don't stand there. Uh, no sir. We are gonna vote on if there's a,

[24:40] if we change it, there'll be a vote. Yeah. I don't want, I, I I know. Okay.

[24:45] um, and I would just add logistically, uh, we don't have anything to

[24:49] be heard in may. So the next time we're going to the, the board will meet will be june.

[24:53] oh, there's nothing next month. I, alright. I, I,

[24:58] I would think I'm correct on this. Um, I think

[25:03] we're at the point in time that we need to,

[25:07] if anyone has a, a change

[25:11] in what should be done other than how we stand with this gentleman right now,

[25:15] I think it's time for a motion

[25:21] to change it. Whether we vote, whether it passes or not.

[25:25] but I think that is the way to go. And then we will go from there, uh,

[25:29] and instruct mr. Watson how to get that done. Carry on. So, okay.

[25:33] I'm sorry mr. Chair. Carry on. Okay. So unfortunately

[25:37] I was not here at the july meeting back in 2025. Right?

[25:41] so the game plan was for him to clean up the, rake it up, then

[25:46] plant it, fill, fill, implant, fill and plant fill implant and, and,

[25:50] and monitor. And monitor. Okay. Got that. Got that. Yeah. All

[25:54] and the fill was where it's needed, sir. The fill was where, where it was needed.

[25:59] not, not the hole. Okay, very good. You, you with us on that? Yeah, but

[26:05] I feel like we're bending over too far. Great. It's coming to

[26:09] you. Hold on. Uh, so

[26:15] I think we could sit here and beat this to death, but we're not going to, if

[26:19] anyone would like to make a motion to change

[26:24] what we have already told him to do and he is,

[26:29] uh, delinquent, then I ask for a motion now.

[26:33] well, in the real world, like you're saying, as long as he know it's fill or need,

[26:38] you understand what I'm saying? No, that has to be, well, like I said, that's what we're talking about. The

[26:43] fill that doesn't isn't the whole place they call it right now. If you fill it, you're gonna be filling over marsh grass.

[26:48] you understand what I'm saying? Right now that in that 10% area, a lot of that has already been, already

[26:52] been reged on its own. So like you say, it is gotta be raked anyway or

[26:56] nothing's gonna grow there anyhow. You can put all the fill onto it and planted all you want that it's gonna be choked off

[27:00] by the rock down below. So either kind of way it's gotta be rigged either

[27:04] way. It does it. And just like you say, places that don't have

[27:08] the grass, because I don't see the sense in filling the grass that's already there.

[27:13] that to me don't make any sense. So if we give him a, I'm just

[27:17] put this out deadline, say june, are we expecting

[27:21] the area to be raked and filled with plantings where needed?

[27:26] is that correct? If we give 'em that deadline that's not already going

[27:30] back on it on. Well, I don't know if it's gonna grow back. No, I'm talking there's, there's

[27:34] area that 10 by 10 areas already been growing back on. It's on. Alright, so

[27:38] I'm I'm I'm sorry, go ahead. So if we choose, since we've got no meeting

[27:42] next month, uh, we stick with what we have, but

[27:46] an extension through june, is that what we're talking about?

[27:51] I I I think that's good. Is that what we're talking about? Everybody? Do y'all, do y'all see

[27:55] the sense and filling the grass that's already been, that's already come back on

[27:59] the phone. That's, I don't think we're talking about filling the grass. We we're, I don't think that's

[28:03] so area, the area that needs to be would need to be filled. Now you said it's, uh, how many square

[28:07] foot? Um, I mean

[28:11] it's a little hard to tell. I think you can see from these pictures that has the, it was

[28:15] a hundred was right and, and now it's what, uh,

[28:20] say 85. It's 80 to 90, 80 call, let's call it 85.

[28:24] all right. So, uh, if we're gonna give them extension,

[28:29] we need a motion, uh, that the

[28:33] 85 square feet needs to be filled,

[28:37] planted, monitored. It is

[28:41] a little difficult because what's growing is interspersed

[28:46] rocks and why not? Uh, a hundred feet less anything

[28:50] that has growth. Alright. Uh,

[28:55] talk to me everybody. And also we should address the gavin basket. Those gavin basket has

[28:59] nothing to do to what we we're using as a clearing house. It has nothing to do with

[29:03] us. We know that he knows it. You know it, everybody knows it. He's just

[29:07] using it as an excuse. It doesn't matter. It doesn't even need to be in the motion.

[29:12] so I want a motion. Please ask for a motion,

[29:16] sir. Mr. I'll make the motion. Mr. I'll make the motion that

[29:21] we extend the deadline for getting the planted where needed

[29:25] for the area for the michael pala complaint. And

[29:29] we give him a deadline of, I'd say june 30th, 2026.

[29:37] june meeting. June meeting. Well, I'd ask for it to be, oh, approximately

[29:41] a week before the meeting. So, okay. Excuse me. Let me, let me, let me re I make the

[29:46] motion that we have a deadline of june 15th, 2026

[29:52] for the, for the, uh, michael pulaski

[29:56] complaint and have it so that the stone is removed

[30:00] and plannings are done when ne where necessary. And with

[30:04] a monitoring plan over three years, do

[30:08] we need a tax map, jpa or anything in that motion? Or is that predetermined?

[30:13] I, I I think, I think it's, I think we all understand. Okay.

[30:17] alright. So you got that. Alright. Everybody understand the motion?

[30:21] second please. I'll second. Second. Mr. Ward,

[30:25] uh, let's vote. Aye aye. Aye.

[30:30] okay, we're in favor of that. Uh, ginger, you got all that? You got any

[30:34] questions? No. Alright. That's the way it's gonna be

[30:38] just after the motion here, just for your informational purposes. He obviously sent

[30:43] in a lot of paperwork and just to let you know, in,

[30:47] uh, exhibit b, number seven, he talked about all the things

[30:51] he would like the wetlands board to do. That's right. So if you, uh, I, I know

[30:55] it's a lot of paperwork, but he sort of had it in the exhibit b. So if you wanna take

[30:59] a look at that. But again, what mr. Watson talked about, it was more of an enforcement

[31:03] issue, which may or may not be within our jurisdiction.

[31:08] probably in that case, everybody's got this in it. Mm-hmm .

[31:12] any questions? Uh, I think that, uh, in the enforcement,

[31:17] uh, we've already done our job and he

[31:21] can bring it to the table if he chooses. I do

[31:25] have one more last question. Is that, I mean, we talked about, there's two things. We talked about the old

[31:30] seawall that goes back to 1970 that was there.

[31:34] does anyone ever have a picture of that? Is there, I I, I,

[31:38] I, I have a house there. Was it 1977? Yeah. And clammed out in

[31:42] that area. I think the reason why I took 'em down 'cause the, the wire got where

[31:46] you, it got close to the chy, but the rocks actually, the rocks ain't going nowhere.

[31:50] why they took it down. I mean, it was, it was, it was your, the organization

[31:54] , you know what I mean? That, that wanted it out there. Don't ask me why. So that was back in, because it was protection

[31:59] and it was protection. So did that get taken out back in the seventies? No, it was

[32:03] there in the seventies. Okay. That wasn't that long ago. I mean, it was, I believe if you look

[32:07] at the county mapping site, you can go back to 2002

[32:12] and you can see like the outline in the water. It's not

[32:16] been that of where it was at that time. Okay. Very good. Thank you.

[32:21] okay, uh, let's move on, shall we?

[32:26] we're gonna continue with the old business. This is subject 4.02

[32:32] jpa is 2 0 2 4 dash 2360.

[32:36] it is the planting, uh, plan

[32:40] for cedar island. Um,

[32:45] everybody knows, uh, this is now the third month

[32:50] for the, uh, when they originally were here. Uh, we

[32:54] asked for a five year monitoring plan and um,

[32:59] I think we might have some more information on that. So sir, would you

[33:04] enlighten us? So the only outstanding issue was the board's

[33:08] inquiry as to whether the county had any liability under this planting plan. Right.

[33:12] uh, the county attorney has reviewed the memorandum of understanding

[33:16] between vims and the county and she has clearly stated to me that all

[33:21] liabilities on vims, none on the county. Uh, so there was no concern

[33:25] from the county that the board was placing any liability on the county.

[33:30] and I believe that answers the board's question. At least

[33:34] I hope it does. 'cause that's what I'm trying to be. Uh, if, if that's the way it is, then that certainly

[33:38] answers her question. Does, I guess my question,

[33:43] why did them come to the county to put their name on it anyway?

[33:47] um, I, I

[33:52] probably needed a local sponsor. I, I think the grant money need needed a local sponsor.

[33:56] I think maybe to assist in the grant funding. Um, I'm, I'm not exactly sure,

[34:01] but I, I have been in the, at the periphery of those discussions,

[34:05] so I, I can't say for certain, but I do know that it was some technicality

[34:09] that assisted in the, in the funding or, or in

[34:13] some aspect of the project because we own nothing there most I'm the owner that comes before

[34:18] you list. Yeah. Just sound at the legal part of it.

[34:22] so is there any action, uh, any discussion

[34:27] regarding that? We only had one question. I guess the rest is,

[34:32] uh, already predetermined and, and

[34:36] I'll just say as a follow up, we, we have the, uh, permit ready for

[34:40] your signature after the meeting today. Now that that's been resolved. Yes, sir. And, and, and

[34:44] I have communicated with stantec about that, about the timing and they were fine with

[34:48] it being signed. You know, they weren't waiting to start construction of

[34:52] this whole thing. I'll just put it that way. . Alright, anyone?

[34:57] uh, let's, let's do this. We're gonna close it. Uh, anyone

[35:01] else wishing to speak about this particular jpa

[35:06] close the floor public comment? Close the floor, uh,

[35:10] open to board discussion. Mr. Watson, any questions

[35:15] regarding it? I think we have done about everything we're gonna do.

[35:19] uh, and I'm looking at you. You have any questions? You weren't

[35:23] here last month. Do you know how we stand? Mm-hmm

[35:27] . No. Okay. I'm fine. So there is no motion, no need for a vote.

[35:31] we're just good to go. And I'll sign it after the meeting. Is that the way it goes? Yes.

[35:36] okay, we're moving ahead. Thank you, sir.

[35:41] next, still on old business 4.03

[35:46] amended. Jpa 2 0 2 5 dash 1263

[35:51] bic. Um, mr. Watson. Um,

[35:55] so there were a couple of issues that were, uh,

[35:59] raised at the last hearing. The board want to continue the matter so it could

[36:03] have a little more information to resolve those issues. The first is whether they're

[36:07] wetlands underneath this dock or platform. I made a,

[36:12] well, several site visits and I've got a picture each time.

[36:16] uh, this was on april the 13th. Um, obviously I'm laying

[36:20] on my stomach taking a picture underneath the dock. This was, uh, at

[36:25] 11:28 am on april 13th, which was about 27

[36:29] minutes before low tide. Um,

[36:33] I actually checked the moon phase two. This was a little bit lower than normal tide, three

[36:37] inches lower than normal tide. Uh, it was a pretty good breeze that

[36:41] day, maybe 15, 20 mile an hour breeze. Um,

[36:45] but as you can see on that day, there were a lot of wetlands under the dock.

[36:49] um, the next visit was on april the 16th.

[36:54] um, this was at 1:37 pm which

[36:58] was about 23 minutes before low tide that day.

[37:02] that low tide was one inch lower than normal. Um, on the moon phase,

[37:07] which is probably about equal out with me being there 23

[37:11] minutes or so before low tide, that actual low tide, uh,

[37:15] much, uh, maybe 10 mile an hour breeze that day. Um,

[37:20] and then finally, uh, monday evening, which was the 21st of april at

[37:24] 5 47. Um,

[37:28] five mile an hour breeze at most, this was at 5 47 for a 6 0 8

[37:33] low tide. So about 20 minutes before low tide. And this moon phase

[37:37] had it almost at a zero tide of, I think

[37:41] it was negative point, uh, five or 0.05

[37:46] feet tied. So maybe like a half inch lower than normal, almost a normal tide,

[37:50] mean low tide. And this was, again, 20 minutes before low tide, almost

[37:54] no wind whatsoever. Um, uh, alright.

[37:59] and my estimate of using the measurements we took

[38:03] and acro mapt is that is about, well I would say a

[38:07] conservative estimate is it's 240 square feet of wetlands underneath

[38:11] that, uh, new portion of the dock

[38:16] platform. Alright, anything else, sir?

[38:20] so that's the first issue. Um, the second issue

[38:24] was the, uh, uh, whether,

[38:31] I guess it was two parts. Number one, whether, uh, multi-user docs

[38:36] require a local wetlands board permit and

[38:40] bmrc does require, I guess a, they're,

[38:45] well, they're not exempt from review of a multi-user here. Our,

[38:49] uh, our ordinance uses the word non-commercial,

[38:54] uh, non-commercial peers that's correct. Are exempt. So,

[38:58] um, I've communicated with bmrc about that. And that is,

[39:02] uh, how our wetlands board or any wetlands board wants

[39:06] to interpret that language, um, is up to the wetlands board.

[39:10] so the wetlands board could determine that a multi-user peer requires a permit

[39:15] to be, to have the same, uh, standard that vmrc does.

[39:19] or it could, uh,

[39:24] I guess go with the non-commercial commercial definition, um, and,

[39:28] and just require commercial peers to, uh,

[39:33] or non-commercial peers to be exempt. Um, that's

[39:37] one part of the next issue of this issue. Another part of this issue is whether

[39:42] this structure is actually

[39:46] a peer, uh, meaning this is the new section

[39:50] approximately here, and it is,

[39:55] I guess otherwise it's just a platform over the water, meaning how big

[39:59] of a pier can you have before you call it something else.

[40:03] um, so the board has two issues there as to

[40:07] how it wants to characterize what we have here.

[40:11] and then the final issue that was raised was the, uh,

[40:15] what had happened back in, I believe january of 2025.

[40:20] at that point, the bulkhead was constructed out to where this

[40:25] platform was. Um, bick was ordered to pull it back, which

[40:29] it did, and also was assessed a penalty for the wetlands

[40:33] that were destroyed. And, uh, there was discussion

[40:38] about whether vic had, I guess, already paid for these

[40:42] wetlands. And that is not what

[40:46] happened. It's a penalty, it was not mitigation. Those are two different

[40:51] things. I have looked at the minutes and the minutes do

[40:55] say that, but I do not believe, uh, that

[40:59] it was possible for it to be mitigation because it

[41:03] was a, a penalty as opposed to mitigation. Meaning once he,

[41:07] once you pay it, you don't, paul read that and, and I've read it

[41:11] and I've read the minutes too. It don't mean nothing to you. What's that? That paper means nothing to you.

[41:17] I would say that if it was mitigation, then mr.

[41:21] britton should have been allowed to keep a bulkhead there because that's

[41:25] what it means. It means, no, I'm the one that done the, I'm the one that done the,

[41:29] um, I I've got the minutes right here and I good. You read, read, do the, do the do

[41:34] the thing. And I know I did it. And the reason why he had to pay for it, he, he restored

[41:38] it. Do you agree that he restored it? Do you agree or not? It's restored wetlands. Am

[41:42] I right or wrong? Am I right or wrong? I I I don't know. I mean, you

[41:46] just said it was wetlands under there. We all just looked at it. It's it's restored wetlands. It's restored wetlands.

[41:51] I mean, I'm not, I wasn't involved in that, so I'm not sure it's restored wetlands.

[41:55] it's restored wetlands. Okay. I'm the one that made a motion,

[41:59] sister and I, and, and, no, no, no, no. Hold up. And I agree that that was what

[42:03] was motion. The reason I made didn't pay for it because there was no way that the, uh,

[42:08] the, we, the, uh, vegetative wetlands is gonna live there. If you, if you do need, if

[42:12] you do a pullback for the years, it's amazing how much those, those, uh, vegetated wetlands

[42:16] pull back vegetation wasn't gonna live there. So I didn't even pay for it. It's in black

[42:21] and white. It's in the minutes. It's on tape. You can't believe me.

[42:25] and it's done. I'm sorry. This is a

[42:29] one-on-one. There's, there's the thing. And like I said, it's, it's on

[42:34] tape. That's why I made him pay for it. That's the reason I made him

[42:38] pay for it, because the vegetation wasn't gonna let there, I made him restore it. He

[42:42] did it. He could and we made him pay for it because vegetation was not

[42:46] gonna go back there. Yeah, it's, it, it, it's there. And blacking

[42:50] white, it's on the, it's on the whole thing. I made the motion. I I I'm not disagreeing with any of that.

[42:54] no, then I'm confused. Well, just because you were, you pay

[42:58] for the, uh, loss of vegetated wetlands doesn't mean you give up the jurisdiction.

[43:03] no. Of the vegetative wetlands are the, the wetlands that's there now.

[43:08] I agree. I made you pay for it because it had paid for, it was because the vegetation wasn't gonna

[43:12] grow that mm-hmm . But he's, that's not what they're being told to me right now. Well, just to be clear, he

[43:16] says a fine, it's not a fine, it was in lieu of fee. It's sitting right there in black and white. If that means nothing,

[43:20] then I'm just crazy. Well, okay, so my point was only that

[43:25] at least I thought there was a suggestion that

[43:29] now bick was entitled to do this

[43:34] 'cause they had paid that. Mm-hmm. And, and, and that,

[43:38] that was my only point, is that I thought that was the remaining issue

[43:42] was whether or not they were entitled to

[43:46] cover up or affect these wetlands because of what had happened

[43:50] back in january. And my suggestion is, is the, those are two very

[43:54] different things. I'm not saying it's entitled. Okay. I'm saying it's not, you're saying

[43:58] it's a fine, it's not a fine, it's in lieu of fee. It's written there in black and white.

[44:03] I made him pay for it because that vegetation was not gonna grow and he had to

[44:07] restore it. That's the double thing. That was the double thing. He's restored it. You all admitted it. It's

[44:11] wetland's there. Alright. It's restored wetland's. What difference does it make if you call it

[44:15] a fine or it's, we're not even addressing that issue. I guess the question is, who was the

[44:19] check written out to? I mean, is this, isn't there map county

[44:23] weapon? I mean to the, for the, uh, in low fee fund, that's

[44:28] where a check is made out to. Okay, I got a check here. Okay.

[44:32] alright. So it's, if it's made out to, it's not a fine, it's made out for the, for, for the

[44:37] recoverable wetlands loss, loss of vegetative wetlands. Mm-hmm . Okay. So let's,

[44:41] let's assume you are correct and it is paid,

[44:45] it is finished. Uh, now

[44:50] what's next with this amended? Jpa, do you have

[44:54] any other future comment? A violation theoretically

[44:59] has been cured and there is a

[45:04] amended jpa, so so in january,

[45:08] um, of course the bulkhead was taken back and that violation

[45:13] was completely taken care of at that time. Yes, sir. So now we

[45:17] have a new violation, which was,

[45:21] uh, that this was constructed without a permit. Um, this is an after the fact.

[45:25] jpa. Yep. And that it is over wetlands.

[45:30] um, I would suggest that we have seen it's over wetlands and now the

[45:34] board, um, has a couple decisions to make. Number one, whether

[45:39] to determine whether this is exempt as multi-user or it needs

[45:43] a hearing as a multi-user. Uh, number two, whether this is actually a peer

[45:47] or something else. And then number three,

[45:52] if the board determines that this is not a permitted use and

[45:57] is over wetlands, that it, uh, that, uh,

[46:01] at least, at least from what I understood at the last hearing was whether or

[46:05] not that had already been paid or not. And I'm suggesting that for

[46:09] this new violation that those wetlands have, that

[46:14] the board would need new compensation for those wetlands for this new violation.

[46:18] um, so those, so those are the issues that I see before the board.

[46:23] can I, can I do something mr. Chairman? Uh, no. Hold on. . Um,

[46:27] is there anything else regarding, uh, the new compensation? Do you want

[46:32] to tell us of what? Square footage, anything like that? Um,

[46:36] 240 square feet. That's right. Okay. So

[46:41] if you'll allow, uh, mr. Britton, your time's coming.

[46:45] go ahead eugene wayne, see if you agree or disagree with that. In virginia, a private

[46:49] dock, non-commercial, peter overstate owned submerged lands. Do you, do you, are you telling me

[46:53] that that, that we just seen it low tide it. Who owes that property?

[46:59] I know y'all have jurisdiction, I promise you I know that. But who owns, who owns its name on state owned property? But that's

[47:03] his, that lo that that's his, uh, marshal, I mean his, uh,

[47:08] not, uh, g dan's soba. Yeah, so well, his name well call sub

[47:12] on low tide. It's, he physically owns, what is your point? Uh, who

[47:17] owns it? I have the tax map here that shows the parcel. He owns it, right? You

[47:21] agree? Yes. Just like, just about everybody. But even like I say, yeah, virginia private

[47:25] dock, this is, even overstate owns . He, he would own it just like

[47:29] anybody based on what saying. Right. But what I'm saying, there's a difference between private docket, public dock, private

[47:34] dock, noncommercial, people over state owned, which this indicates it's his own, uh, basically

[47:38] what we're talking about, uh, owned submerged lands for, uh, non-commercial

[47:42] use, but not open to the general public, like you said, town of shank tank just

[47:46] bought a park there. Two and a quarter acres. I guarantee he'll have a sign

[47:51] there not open to the public because we'd be out there using it. Uh,

[47:55] a big part. I'm sure that's, like I said, if it was open to the public, everybody on that,

[47:59] that's using that two and a quarter, uh, acre park we just bought, we'd be using his dock

[48:03] . Know what I'm saying? It'll be a private, it'll be a private sign. There are, I'm sure that

[48:07] process. So in north hampton county, I know they treat a multi-user dock as

[48:12] a, uh, they, it is not exempt.

[48:16] um, my understanding is that many other counties in virginia treat multi

[48:20] users is not exempt, but some do. And, and that is at the board's

[48:24] discretion as to how it wants to handle that. As of this minute, that has been how

[48:29] we've been doing it though, right? Yes. Uh, yeah. That and,

[48:33] and, uh, that's my understanding. Yes. And, and I had a conversation with vmrc

[48:37] about this several months ago, and then since the last meeting, I wanted to make sure

[48:41] that I have reported that correctly. Um, but it was my understanding that's how the board's

[48:45] treated in the past. I just wanted to bring that issue up. Um, because

[48:49] it doesn't get before the board very often. Hank uh, I want you

[48:53] to hold up. I know you've got something to do. Alright. Thank you sir. Um,

[48:59] uh, representing, uh, bic is mr. Raymond

[49:03] britton jr. Uh, sit where you are. Do you affirm or swear you

[49:07] tell the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth in all matters before this board,

[49:11] I do stay where you are. Please speak up or pull that down or something. Uh,

[49:16] we were permitted for 300 and, uh, 50 foot,

[49:20] six foot wide field. Almost the s bottom right.

[49:24] we only built 265 foot of it, right? So

[49:28] we left the other 90 feet out there. I didn't touch

[49:32] it. We came back when we made us move to bulkhead, which was done

[49:36] by mistake, I was out of town. My boys did it. Not knowing that it

[49:41] was wrong. We, as soon as beth called my attention to her, I immediately

[49:45] said, I'll do what you say. And we moved it. That put

[49:49] a pier outside of the bulkhead. I said, well, I can extend it. Pier

[49:54] back in 1521 feet just changed my starting point.

[49:58] I'm still not exceeding the 350 feet that I was allowed.

[50:03] I'm only up to 290 feet down.

[50:08] so we enclosed that little, had those pieces there about six foot by 15, there

[50:12] would've been a gap in there. So we decked over.

[50:16] it would've been permitted if it had been all the way across the marsh to main street.

[50:22] we do 'em all the time across the marsh. It's a not, it's, it's a permitted no permit

[50:26] required thing to begin with. And while we're here,

[50:30] I don't know if these people can make decisions without trying to look for a violation

[50:34] every time they come out. It would be a whole lot of stuff in the world for, but that

[50:39] doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. Alright. As soon as they

[50:43] walk out, it'd be, you gotta take it out. It's not what

[50:47] happened, what can we do? It's take it out. That was the first thing that

[50:51] the bmrc girl said, you're gonna take this out. I said, hold on a

[50:55] minute. I, I had a permit for 350 foot on my building.

[50:59] I'm, I'm at 300 square foot less impacts right now.

[51:03] which the project, like the sex that I was allowed to do,

[51:07] there's no trade off. Then I made an amended permit when

[51:12] we had a borrow for the project, go buy a house to whole property. He went on for

[51:16] three months. He couldn't get his financing with the amount of money.

[51:20] that changed everything. That changed everything. Then I was told I had to

[51:24] reapply, amended permit to change it to a commercial beer.

[51:29] fine. I did that. Then I sent over another

[51:33] one showed where we came in, tied in here like this for

[51:37] permit to do that. And all I wrote is a violation

[51:41] not looking at before we're going to give a permit order or not. Would it have been, it

[51:46] would've been permitted if, if it hadn't all, all the uses hadn't

[51:50] changed. That's in the minutes. Same thing you said before. Yeah. It's,

[51:54] it's just, okay. It's frustrating that you don't have anybody that can come out in

[51:58] the field and say, well, you, you, you gave up

[52:02] all this out here. We'll trade off here. Send us a new drawing. Show where you're going to tie

[52:06] in at now. It would've been permitted anyway.

[52:10] is is the sad part about it. Alright,

[52:15] sir, anything else? Not right now. Uh, is there, go ahead,

[52:19] sir. Um, mr. Watson, I would say that, I mean this, this is a very simple process.

[52:23] before you build, you need a permit. We need the plans and, and,

[52:27] and mr. Brit and several times is built without,

[52:32] you know, bill, not according to the permits or built even, you

[52:36] know, this modification didn't even come to us and submit anything. So, I mean, I,

[52:41] I understand. I'm not exactly sure what we're supposed to do when he never notifies us before

[52:45] he does something like he's required to do. Uh, you just made a statement.

[52:49] you may have to back up what he just made a statement. He may have to back

[52:53] us up. I been building it without permits.

[52:58] well, you built this without, no, I have a permit, but 350 foot

[53:02] all change would be where it started. Okay. And we're not going to beat that

[53:06] little aspect to death. Uh, you can take that up behind closed doors

[53:10] if you choose uhhuh. Just said's the first time construction. All, all

[53:15] right, sir. Is there, uh, anyone else, ms. Gorman, that

[53:19] wishes to speak about this particular amended? Jpa? If you

[53:23] have specific questions, I can answer them. Anyone have any questions for

[53:27] ms. Gorman? Yes. Yes I do. Yes. Would you approach, please

[53:33] do you firm or swear you tell the truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth in all matters

[53:37] before this board? Yes, sir. Thank you ms. Claire gorman. Carry on, sir.

[53:41] so what my big concern here is setting a precedent where someone

[53:46] mitigates wetlands and they build over it.

[53:50] and I guess from my view is from your experience, have you ever seen a

[53:54] situation like this where there's a mitigation, there's wetlands

[53:59] and then someone just goes ahead and builds a pier or a ramp

[54:03] or whatever over top of it? Do you, you get my gist of my question?

[54:07] I'm not sure I I follow your, so you're asking

[54:12] if I've seen cases where a board has required mitigation for

[54:17] shading of wetlands. Yes. Let's go with that. Yes. In terms of,

[54:21] um, you have the wetlands there, you pay mitigation and you weren't

[54:25] expecting someone to build something over top of those wetlands paying.

[54:30] so I, I I just, I do wanna make the

[54:34] point that I agree that it's kind of a mute point now as to

[54:38] whether or not this is called mitigation or a fine. I am on the same

[54:42] page. Paul and I are on the same page. As far as like the semantics of mitigation versus,

[54:46] versus a fine, this was mitigation was not paid for these wetlands.

[54:51] it was a fine because you cannot pay an in lieu fee or mitigation for something

[54:55] that is a violation. But it doesn't change the nature of this.

[55:00] okay. Of this, of this structure. Does that, you just said it does

[55:04] not, it, I, in my opinion it doesn't change the, this

[55:08] this scenario. I have a question. What you, hold on. Alright, just so one more last,

[55:12] so initially the mitigation, well we call it mitigation, correct? This, whatever, it's

[55:16] how many square feet was that initially? Oh, I don't recall. It's

[55:20] one 62nd. Can I have that paperwork back too? This, I've got the minutes. Thank you.

[55:25] okay. I've got the minutes from that meeting. Okay. So was it a hundred, you said a hundred sixty one oh eight.

[55:31] 1 0 8. And now what? I heard that it's 240 square 40.

[55:35] correct. Okay. Alright. I, that's what he said. Well, okay. I,

[55:39] oh right. 'cause the bulk had only didn't go out quite as, quite

[55:44] as far, I guess, but all right. But I don't think that changes anything here. Well, I'm just looking,

[55:48] looking at the mm-hmm . Okay. Thank you very much. Board. Any questions from ms. Goman?

[55:52] no. Okay. Uh, mr. Taylor. Okay, back, back to, back to your

[55:56] question. Uh, if, if we gave junior a fine, where would that money go?

[56:01] I believe this went to the county. Now if we gave him a fine

[56:05] to the county either way. Okay. So this, this

[56:09] in lieu of fee did not go to the restoration and to the, to

[56:14] the, uh, wetlands boards account for restoring wetlands. I don't know where

[56:18] your, your funds go, whether it's an in lief fee or a violation. Uh, why would the

[56:22] in lie fee go? It would go to different places. They're not, you're

[56:26] not gonna take fine money and put it into restoration of wetlands. That's, that's the county's

[56:31] okay. Paul logistics, it's not question you, where did that money go?

[56:35] um, from all indications. It went to the, I mean,

[56:39] I, I would say that it, from what I know now, it

[56:44] went to the in lie fund and that was probably a mistake. And

[56:48] I will say, well, no, I will say most municipalities, whether it's a fine

[56:52] or an in lieu fee, it usually goes into the same location. But I don't know specifically for

[56:56] akima county how that works. No. And

[57:00] how, how do we find out for an absolute fact where it went?

[57:05] um, I could probably go find out in

[57:09] just a few minutes. Uh, go ahead. Should be, it should be a receipt in our inter go system.

[57:13] um, I say we have a, we have a, would you do that? Show us or

[57:18] let us know as soon as possible. Um, if you wanna take about a

[57:22] five minute, maybe we take a five minute recess. Junior, you are okay

[57:26] for a few minutes. Uh, we're taking a five minute recess.

[57:31] okay. Uh, don't, don't leave hank 'cause you have a question or two. Oh. Oh,

[57:35] I'm sorry. I thought we were doing, doing the five minute recess. You can you go back. Hit

[57:39] the head baby. Okay. George ward. I know you gotta go. Well,

[57:44] not really, but I can. This one's easy. I probably will just in

[57:48] case you please. Just don't, don't, don't go across

[57:52] the desk. You're not in

[57:58] go bathroom.

[58:04] don't worry about it.

[58:14] wow. So, uh,

[58:21] has the fire department spent all their money? The all its millions they

[58:25] made on penalty pending. I hope.

[58:36] last week, last month I was asking myself. I worked, I worked with kids

[58:40] with his grandson. Started working with, that's a good boy. Great, great

[58:44] young man. Work with my kids. I tell myself I'm 65-year-old, I need to just turn

[58:48] this over to west after leaving here. I'm like, nah, I still like kids. Way better.

[58:52] I do adults . I of us do. I'm serious.

[58:57] like, you know, when I, when I was, uh, first time I ran for council,

[59:01] I was in my coaching little league and uh, I had a game that night. So asked, it

[59:06] was a debate. I asked her that little first. So one of my questions, well, if you have a little big

[59:10] baseball game where you have a a town council game, which one you gonna go to? I said, this is easy.

[59:15] I said, I'm not gonna lie to you at the job. I'm going to the ballgame. I'm much, I'm much gonna spend time with the kids

[59:19] than, than than a bunch of politicians. This was easy. My, my grandchildren

[59:23] across the bay are into everything from dance to soccer's to running.

[59:28] uh, they've got a, now they've got a thing now in

[59:32] their middle school called girls on the run and it's

[59:36] about 15 of 'em. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's a big program they run.

[59:40] that's a big program. She does five, six miles. She's 11 years old. Yeah. That's a

[59:44] big, that's a big, actually that's not that big. They did the, uh, thing

[59:48] on the beach, uh, on the boardwalk. Uh, 25,000 people that

[59:52] did it. And her daddy is a a, a new zealand

[59:58] up, upcoming general that gave it up to come here.

[1:00:02] and she, he paces her and, uh, she, she can go.

[1:00:06] I'd love to, I'd rather watch him play sports

[1:00:11] than eat when I'm hungry. Mm-hmm . Keep a minute. Keep

[1:00:15] a minute. Alright. We're waiting on mr. Watson, I believe. Yeah.

[1:00:19] alright. One thing I

[1:00:23] can tell you is money and mitigation the same,

[1:00:28] same fund. , they

[1:00:32] don't go through general funds. It shouldn't. They don't. There's a certain amount. We got a certain amount. We got like 160

[1:00:37] some thousand dollars in our fund before they, uh, they need to acquire a

[1:00:41] trust fund. Took it from us sitting right here. We got that in our account. We got $160,000

[1:00:45] for, for restoring wet masks. Yep. Right now

[1:00:50] you take it. I'm working with a lady right now. What? What? We're working with a lady

[1:00:54] on receipt. Create a wetlands back. Yeah. Uh, stack. Any

[1:00:58] rest non title or title? Title, title? It's uh, russell's

[1:01:03] house up on main street. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That whole front yard. This

[1:01:07] lady's bought a lot. Well that's the perfect place to do it. That's a perfect place to do because you always do. Yeah.

[1:01:11] canal. You always do it adjacent to it just fairly high

[1:01:15] land. You do the land and strip it down to that. It has the best

[1:01:20] chance of winning, of survival and it's protected. Mm-hmm . It

[1:01:24] won't, seed's not gonna take it once you do it. And, uh, but in contact

[1:01:31] cc gentleman, bm rc and

[1:01:36] she's thinking about, uh, at $26 a square foot, do the whole

[1:01:40] cut the house down and do it. 'cause that's a lot of money. Take the half. She gonna take that whole front yard.

[1:01:44] but you understand what I'm saying? Do that, do that math. $26 times is 43,200

[1:01:49] some square foot just do four, 3000. It'd above your mind. Well, well,

[1:01:53] I thought it was like they, they came up a million dollars per acre. I thought

[1:01:57] it was like 22 when you do this. I don't have no problem with charging people. I'm serious. I

[1:02:01] don't have a problem. But problem is, like you said, if you do it, you better have a reason to do it. You

[1:02:05] know what I mean? You better have a real reason. It's a great, uh,

[1:02:10] great thing. And particularly there, uh,

[1:02:14] people can pay into it. It's a win-win. It appears to me. You

[1:02:18] really do understand what I'm saying about this. Yeah.

[1:02:22] yes I do. But there's a way to go about it. Mm-hmm

[1:02:26] . There's a way we're gonna go about it. Okay. Gonna just come across the desk.

[1:02:31] we're not selling tomatoes. ,

[1:02:36] man, old man.

[1:02:42] the first complaint, I thought it was a joke. Damn joke.

[1:02:46] it ain't a joke. Uh, the first complaint. Wow.

[1:02:55] yeah,

[1:03:00] we made some wetlands on when jerry tracy was here when

[1:03:04] you built sunset bay, built a bit wetlands in jerry tracy

[1:03:09] went up, wil and I made blowing some lands out. Yeah, I remember that. It made wetlands

[1:03:13] out. This did well, did that canal about just enough warm.

[1:03:18] it did real well. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that.

[1:03:27] I think dave's don't know what subdivisions are, ain't he? Yeah. Dave dave's good. Dave's

[1:03:31] good boy too. I give him a 13 acres. Yeah. They, these,

[1:03:35] these good, uh, very, very excellent, uh, carpenter, very excellent carpenter

[1:03:39] who gave it. Yeah. Not because he's my son. There is no carpenter touch.

[1:03:43] yeah, I've, I've heard son. I call don't care who you are.

[1:03:49] I don't believe that. .

[1:03:54] I'll figure, I'll tell you. That's why I don't text. I don't email. I tell

[1:03:58] you something. I be face that . I want you

[1:04:02] to know. I meant, and no paper trail, huh? . Yeah, that's right.

[1:04:08] junior. You gonna put a fence down that line on that line buying,

[1:04:13] but between, uh, town and mm-hmm . That I'm not, we

[1:04:17] are probably, that's what I was asking you was trying to save some money. . Yeah. Y'all ended

[1:04:21] up buying, you ended up buying it, didn't you? That's what I thought.

[1:04:27] I got a lady now that she bought russell over's house. She bought the

[1:04:31] other house, bunk hill that, uh, um, dick

[1:04:35] cotton built mm-hmm . One built and she bought the house across the

[1:04:39] coast and she just bought 13 acres of land from

[1:04:43] to wetlands. $200,000 on they all road.

[1:04:48] oh. They, that they're across from the, uh, uh, what do you call that, harbor,

[1:04:53] down by the harbor. Mm-hmm . Anyway, she wants to buy my house now, all

[1:04:57] the land. So she put her ponies out in the front yard and I'll roll around and

[1:05:01] people can come tell them she wants pay said million dollars. Well, once she does

[1:05:05] that, I can, I can play legal biggle on this one. I can play legal biggle

[1:05:09] on this. I've had to stay, uh, uh, land law my whole life. You know that

[1:05:14] you know the reason why too, not 'cause I wanted to, but this is easy. If

[1:05:18] she buys the whole thing, you drop two lot lines. This is legal. Yeah. . She,

[1:05:22] she, you know, she's right now she's, she don't want, she don't want, she don't want three lot. She

[1:05:26] wants the whole thing for put apo in. Yeah. She wants, she wants a house to live in and she wants

[1:05:30] to, so she, she's not, she's not gonna put houses on the other two lot. She got special horses she's

[1:05:35] got from rose. She's only got six of 'em. So they can roll the ones and

[1:05:39] people can come up and pat them and hand feed them. Oh. You will have people to feed 'em. Where's she

[1:05:43] hail from? She said, look, she's from california or originally, but she's

[1:05:47] from up around washington. Now my understanding was her ex-husband

[1:05:51] or dead, dead husband or where it was, had a lot

[1:05:56] of apple stock and they sold that. That'll

[1:06:00] do it. Yeah. I should. And she gotta do something with the money and she just been buying everything which they

[1:06:04] dollar. Yeah. Got spend

[1:06:09] this property I've gotten, in fact, I was over the phone with her this morning. She's already bought the

[1:06:13] marsh beside you. She's already bought the marsh beside you. She has already bought the marsh

[1:06:17] beside you. Oh. Oh. I bought hill that one. Oh. She ain't bourbage still

[1:06:21] on that one. Still on that one. Well get bourbage and sell to marsh then that she'll be

[1:06:25] sure to buy that yours then if she's interested. She, if she, if she, if she

[1:06:29] wants to feed people, feed horses, she's in a perfect place there. We're

[1:06:33] gonna do apartments. She can feed 'em all day long. But she, she, that's what she, that's

[1:06:37] her goal is to have a place to feed her horses and keep 'em

[1:06:45] nice to have money. I guess she's, uh, she's waiting on that her account to tell her she

[1:06:49] can buy if she should buy any more property. But she says she

[1:06:53] may go against him and do it anyway. Yeah.

[1:06:57] I think property gonna better for feet of horses.

[1:07:02] well she could've helped the county. I I mean the, uh, bought that property for him.

[1:07:07] right. The one that y'all bought and

[1:07:11] giving it to the kind to the tire horse apart. There you go.

[1:07:15] charge, here we go. Those little machines that you get some boss feed

[1:07:20] . I had some of them at the restaurant feeds your ducks with you did. Yeah. You put your

[1:07:24] money into the bubble cup machine. That's right. Put the quarter. You got a handful of corn. Yeah. Right

[1:07:28] beside mcdonald's is where you mm-hmm . And they used to feed the duck up the

[1:07:32] end with we had the restaurant. That's right. Surprised how much quarters that

[1:07:36] thing filling up every day if you're in the right spot. I told my girlfriend

[1:07:40] what these all the town, you know, our kids are gonna go, oh,

[1:07:44] daddy, mama and the duck were so tam that it would

[1:07:49] come around your feet. They eat right between your legs and your feet, but all the shoes

[1:07:53] mm-hmm . Because they're used to getting fed there. Yeah.

[1:07:57] it's like for deer in pennsylvania. My house up forever. My son david feeds, so every time he goes up corn

[1:08:01] that we feed when we go, he's gotta beating outta his hand.

[1:08:05] I believe it. There was a deer coming right up, right up his hand. And their biggest cows up there are

[1:08:09] deer in pennsylvania are, I had two, two eights and

[1:08:14] a 10 of course where I live. Everybody's got those, uh, screw on, uh, sponsors

[1:08:18] on the, on the rifles. Yeah. They, they didn't make it. He didn't even make it hunting season .

[1:08:22] I told, I told, I told the billy, I said, don't be shooting, but gary, you better pencil some in. Jeez.

[1:08:29] but I was surprised he read down of his hand like that, come up to the deck on the house

[1:08:33] and he was standing there and feeding by his hand. We got mallards. We feed

[1:08:37] the ducks every day off the dock. We got mallards. The children are feeding. Yeah.

[1:08:41] oh. Uh, they, the, the black ducks and the uh, buffalo

[1:08:46] heads won't do it, but the mallards will come right up there and they feed 'em right their hand. They're not scared.

[1:08:51] I got a pond behind my house and the metals come in there and do he ever

[1:08:55] bit of it or cleaned up upon every winter? Is that right? They stayed there every

[1:08:59] bid of you feel like paying them by throwing some corn or something they want because I mean they did do extremely

[1:09:03] good job. I tell my daughter, don't you even think about it shooting them ducks? Don't even think about

[1:09:07] it. Do we have a freezer up back in the seven sixties? I guess they were

[1:09:11] the early the seventies bad freeze up. 68 was one. We were

[1:09:16] feeding the ducks corn. Old man and tom reed lived by a

[1:09:20] depot. Old, old man. Mm-hmm . Come. He said, son, please don't do that.

[1:09:24] I said, he don't feed them ducks. You going kill them. I said, why am I

[1:09:28] going kill 'em? I thought you need to eat everything screwed up. He said, no,

[1:09:32] he can't get no fresh water to drink. It's all through he gonna kill him.

[1:09:37] I never thought of that. . Okay. Uh,

[1:09:41] I like to call the meeting back to order, uh, mr. Watson, you

[1:09:45] have some information for us. I do. Um, so we recorded it as

[1:09:49] a miscellaneous fee in, in our computer system,

[1:09:54] the zoning, but that doesn't really mean anything. Um, and

[1:09:58] the treasurer checked the in lieu bank statements. Uh, it looks like

[1:10:02] we got the check february the fourth. And uh, they checked the

[1:10:06] bank statements for the in lieu fund for the several months, uh,

[1:10:11] february, march, and so forth. And there was no deposit in the, in lieu fund bank account,

[1:10:16] uh, at all. It just shows interest for all of those months, um,

[1:10:21] to actually determine. And so it

[1:10:26] likely, the treasurer thinks likely went into the county's general fund

[1:10:30] and that is a much more difficult process to track down a deposit, you know,

[1:10:34] 15, 16 months ago in the general fund in five or 10 minutes. But

[1:10:39] she did pull, she, she has easy access to the bank statements for the in lieu fund. It did not

[1:10:43] show any deposit and the in lieu fund for the several months after we received this

[1:10:47] check and that we took the check over to them

[1:10:51] on february 4th. Alright.

[1:10:55] so we think that it's in the general fund for the county. That's

[1:10:59] what we think. Yes. Then it needs to be transferred to, to our

[1:11:04] bank. What's, uh, what's involved. That sounds like it's,

[1:11:08] uh, a lot of work. Um, not

[1:11:12] work. I'd have to do no, somebody. Um, but I I do not,

[1:11:16] I can can we get it done? I would think it shouldn't be too hard.

[1:11:20] um, but I I do not, I am not on the money side of all this. I

[1:11:25] think it, I think we need to ask that question. I I don't think that where that's where it

[1:11:29] needs to be. Um, so

[1:11:34] what's the, what steps, what hopes we jump through to try to get that done?

[1:11:38] um, well, I'd go over and talk to the, to the treasurer james, and, and

[1:11:42] just explain the situation. I I, you know, obviously in the scope of county finances,

[1:11:47] this doesn't seem like a hugely significant, uh,

[1:11:51] transfer. And I would think with a little bit of digging they could find

[1:11:55] it's $1,944. It's kind of an odd number. I mean, they'd be able to find that jane

[1:12:00] ton. Yes, sir. And, um, I mean, they know within a week or

[1:12:04] so when it would've been deposited. So it seems like that should not be too hard to

[1:12:08] find a bank statement in that amount. Um, I'd like, uh, to ask

[1:12:12] you to talk to james, and this is a slack time for them

[1:12:16] in the scheme of things before june. And I think he's willing

[1:12:21] to do within reason, whatever it takes to make something like this. Right.

[1:12:25] I I they're very helpful if deposit on two six.

[1:12:30] okay, that's helpful too. But you don't, you just know when the check was

[1:12:35] box check, would you please, uh, make one more call on

[1:12:40] mr. Littleton and ask him if he would help us find that.

[1:12:44] get outta there. Yes. So not now balance on that too, because it's like a hundred some

[1:12:48] thousand dollars. Hold on just a minute. So thank you for that information. Uh,

[1:12:53] I think we can resolve it now. Um,

[1:12:57] how do we stand, uh, mr. Badger? Yeah. Um, just a couple

[1:13:01] thoughts. Um,

[1:13:05] should be no fees involved in this as far

[1:13:09] as mitigation fees for, it's, it's an opens to pile structure.

[1:13:13] we haven't, they haven't lost the wetlands underneath of it. So that's a not it's, it's

[1:13:18] doesn't need, it doesn't need to be addressed. Yes, sir. So the question we really

[1:13:22] have here is, first of all, is it we, considering this a

[1:13:26] permitted structure that we need to permit because it's joint use?

[1:13:30] uh, in the past I think we have, uh, joint use. Uh, we

[1:13:35] consider something similar to commercial, uh, but not pri totally private.

[1:13:39] so I think we do to be consistent with what we've done in the past,

[1:13:44] probably permit something there. Then the big question is, is whether

[1:13:48] or not the width is, uh, reasonable or not. Uh,

[1:13:53] so that's kind of where I am. If you look at just the width, did

[1:13:57] you say width? The width, yes. Versus height. Uh, the height is height.

[1:14:02] it doesn't matter because it's non vegetated underneath. Right. Okay. So it doesn't matter. Uh,

[1:14:07] so if you just look at activities in wetlands authorized, uh,

[1:14:11] by law and, uh, marine resources, wetlands, uh,

[1:14:15] section of the code, uh, non-commercial. That's the big difference

[1:14:19] here. Catwalks, piers, boathouses boat shelters, fences, duck lines,

[1:14:24] wildlife management shelters, foot bridges, and observation

[1:14:28] decks. Okay. Are, are accepted under a non-commercial.

[1:14:34] randy, we're gonna have to give a permit here. So we've gotta decide whether or not this,

[1:14:39] the, the additional width of six feet versus, um,

[1:14:43] basically, I guess it's 10 feet, uh, with the, the width across

[1:14:48] the wetlands, whether or not that's appropriate or not. And

[1:14:52] is that, uh, the, the tens versus six, is that something

[1:14:56] that's, uh, appropriated or is that something that is on a case by case?

[1:15:00] I think it, I think we're looking at case by case here. Uh, we're not dealing with vegetated wetlands underneath

[1:15:05] this, uh, um, observation. Yeah. Is that what you just said?

[1:15:09] yeah. There's an observation. Decks. Decks. I like that observation deck. I like that

[1:15:13] too. 400 square foot. Yes. How do you feel about an observation deck, sir?

[1:15:17] fine with me. The thing this was,

[1:15:21] this was all built before we were asked to make the change. I know all

[1:15:25] that to commercial, it was being done as residential at the time.

[1:15:29] what other options do we have besides observation deck,

[1:15:34] uh, shelters and other similar structures? Were finding that the struc

[1:15:38] that such structures, uh, are so constructed are pilings as

[1:15:43] the reasonable unobstructed flow of tide and preserve the natural

[1:15:47] contour of the wetlands, which this is open pile, it's non vegetated. Perfect.

[1:15:51] so the area underneath perfect. Mr. Watson,

[1:15:55] uh, after the fact to turn this into an observation

[1:15:59] deck from whatever it was, it was a private peer and then it was

[1:16:03] a, uh, um, uh, you had

[1:16:07] three people involved. Um, what do, what do we

[1:16:11] do after the fact? What do you need from that gentleman to make this an observation

[1:16:16] deck? I mean, what's the, what do we need? Excuse me.

[1:16:20] oh, well I think we do have an amended, amended jpa. So I think

[1:16:24] that is before the board. So the amended, just to be clear. So is

[1:16:28] there, is there a, uh, vote to take this amended

[1:16:32] jpa, uh, and have it include an observation deck? Does it

[1:16:36] need to be worded in the motion? Um,

[1:16:41] I think that's best. Yes. Um, yeah. And oh,

[1:16:45] sorry. No, no, no, no. Uh, so

[1:16:50] do you, uh, agree that it can become

[1:16:54] an observation deck if the owner says it is and we put it in

[1:16:58] a motion and it's, uh, part of the amended jpa

[1:17:02] that he's already paid for? I, I would just say that

[1:17:07] section 1 0 2 dash 2 8 3 1 does mention, well,

[1:17:11] it's straight out of the virginia code, mr. Badger quoted. But it does say, would you observation

[1:17:15] deck as a permitted? Yes, sir. Uh, I guess, uh, alright.

[1:17:19] but, but of course you have to go back to the commercial non-commercial. Exactly. And I don't want,

[1:17:23] so that's another issue whether the, but

[1:17:28] yes, it's discretionary. Um, if the board calls it commercial, of course

[1:17:32] it can permit it. Um, I'm not speaking for the owner here,

[1:17:36] but, uh, I think, uh, whatever we want it to be, to keep

[1:17:40] it like it is, uh, uh, uh,

[1:17:45] observation, uh, public or private or

[1:17:50] whatever, I think, uh, if we do that, everything is resolved. Is that what

[1:17:54] I'm hearing and junior is, is that okay

[1:17:58] ma'am, you, is there anything that you can help us, uh, on

[1:18:02] this particular aspect?

[1:18:06] do you understand what we are trying to do here? And do you

[1:18:11] agree or disagree from where you sit? So, um,

[1:18:16] I am not totally clear on how you all are proceeding. All I think that

[1:18:20] I should say though is that if you are going to issue

[1:18:24] a permit, a wetlands permit for this after the fact application,

[1:18:30] it needs to be a complete application. That's,

[1:18:34] that's, um, in keeping with, in keeping with, um,

[1:18:38] your procedural, you know, so, so we have, we advertised this,

[1:18:42] we cannot, we, we, we did before the last meeting.

[1:18:46] okay. So it's been advertised. So it's been advertised. Uh, we have a, an amended,

[1:18:51] uh, been paid for. But you're saying if we're going to do this, it needs

[1:18:55] to start a again, in your opinion. No, I am just, I, my only,

[1:18:59] um, comment is that it needs to be a complete application if a permit is going to be

[1:19:03] issued for it. I, I think we have a complete application.

[1:19:07] uh, paul, would you enlighten me on that? Do you agree that we have a

[1:19:11] complete application in some fashion? Um,

[1:19:16] there's been a lot going on in this case, so well lot going

[1:19:20] on. I just object with bunch of cases speaking. I think at least we need to modify the drawings

[1:19:24] to indicate an observation that's a piece

[1:19:28] of cake. You already have everything. You might need to change two words or something.

[1:19:33] we, we, we do have an updated drawing. We got

[1:19:37] a drawing. I'm, it's right here if anybody wants it, but I don't know

[1:19:41] if there's, uh, some verbiage or if something big deal. Uh,

[1:19:46] um, there are, lemme bring it up on the screen and we can all look

[1:19:50] at it. Uh, here it is there. It's, yeah. So

[1:19:56] a couple things. Uh, we would need mean low and mean high

[1:20:00] noted on here. And also I guess where the x's are.

[1:20:04] um, where are the x's? Uh, oh yeah, I got it.

[1:20:08] go. Oh shoot. Oh, there we go. Um, mean low and high is not on there somewhere

[1:20:13] I do not believe so. Um, and also I don't see it some indication

[1:20:17] that whatever that, that this additional area is an observation deck. I mean this

[1:20:21] is the pier going straight back and

[1:20:26] uh, or some com you know, some indication that that's what was

[1:20:30] applied for here. Alright. Uh, if we choose to do this and

[1:20:34] the owner is willing to, uh, get with you and

[1:20:39] change some, some worded or mean high mean low,

[1:20:44] uh, take five minutes in your office. Uh, is everybody, not

[1:20:48] us? Everybody clear with that? And, uh, junior,

[1:20:52] uh, mr. Watson? Yes. Uh, if

[1:20:56] we do that and he's willing to, uh, redo the drawing,

[1:21:00] if that's what it takes, uh, I'm be glad. Review the drawing. Yes

[1:21:05] sir. Yes sir. And you'll be glad to talk to him and say, what do you want on there that's

[1:21:09] not on there. Is that a fair assumption? Mm-hmm . Alright. And I would just add to

[1:21:13] that, that I would, uh, also review the application and make sure yes, sir. Anything else that

[1:21:17] needs to be put on there of course is, is you'll filled out. No. When, just make

[1:21:21] sure. Uh, and, and paul, will we go through the application?

[1:21:26] yes sir. Send me an email and tell me what he wants on it. Yes, sir. So I don't miss anything. I do it all at

[1:21:30] one time. Fair deal. That's fair. Uh, how long to get that done? I'll send the email out

[1:21:34] today. No problem. Okay. Uh, any

[1:21:38] other, oh, hold on. Uh, closed floor. Anybody want

[1:21:42] to talk about it? Closed floor, public comment, close the floor

[1:21:47] now. Discussion from the board. Okay, I just wanna make sure we we're clear on covering this

[1:21:51] one point when you went and measured that when you are on your back,

[1:21:55] you came over 240 square feet? Yes. Okay.

[1:21:59] and the original mitigation for was for 108 square feet. We're

[1:22:04] not, nothing's been filled. Nothing's been filled. Okay. So we don't need to worry about the differential. It's open

[1:22:08] pile structure over, we over, uh, uh, non vegetated

[1:22:12] wetlands. Okay? So we're all fine. Nothing's been filled. It's just open pile. Just open

[1:22:16] pile. And it's also property that it's, it is, it is private bottom, not state

[1:22:20] bottom. I don't mean nothing either, but again, it's, it's nothing been filled. It all goes

[1:22:24] away because of that. I just wanna make check. I understand judge. Just wanted check. There's the only

[1:22:28] thing that could ever even possibly be charged for would be shading. That's the only thing that even be possibly charged

[1:22:32] for. And because sha vegetation, that's not an issue here.

[1:22:37] I don't think so. You agree? I, I agree. Question. Uh, you agree

[1:22:42] hank? You agree? Alright, here's what we're gonna do.

[1:22:46] we're going to, uh, make a motion regarding this, um,

[1:22:51] amended jpa 2 0 2 5 1 2 6 3.

[1:22:57] yes. And it's gonna include re uh,

[1:23:02] uh, mr. Watson's, uh, redrawing

[1:23:07] with, uh, mr. Britton's, uh,

[1:23:11] high, low, et cetera. What else needs to be put on there? He's willing to do

[1:23:15] it and it's become an observation deck.

[1:23:20] you with me? Yes. Alright. Uh, are we ready for a motion

[1:23:24] regarding that? May I ask for a motion, please? I'll

[1:23:28] make a motion on the admitted jpa that it'd be, um,

[1:23:32] uh, new drawings I stand. It'd be a, um,

[1:23:37] uh, observation deck and it's under, that area is under 400

[1:23:42] square foot. Um, and the new drawings will be in place

[1:23:46] with the, um, mr. Paul and mr. Mr. Gina

[1:23:50] britton. And the drawings will show, uh, state, uh, instead of be

[1:23:54] an observation that this area in question, I make a motion after the,

[1:23:58] the, uh, new drawings and everything, state this observation deck that we approve.

[1:24:04] we have a motion call for a second. I've got a

[1:24:08] question. There is no change in anything other than

[1:24:12] the terminology of the, that's absolutely correct. Alright,

[1:24:17] as for a second, please. I'll second, second vote please.

[1:24:22] aye. Aye. Unanimous. It passes two year permit. Uh,

[1:24:26] ginger, excuse me. Did you get all that? Yes, I did. Yes, sir.

[1:24:30] um, so I guess the last thing to dispose of is, of course this section

[1:24:34] was bill not according to any plans we received, and

[1:24:39] that was the violation was this was built without the required

[1:24:43] permitting. Um, and I would just ask the board to dispose of that

[1:24:48] sworn complaint. Yes, sir. Uh, that is very, very good. Should have that

[1:24:52] have been in the motion? I don't think so. I think it just, we dispose of

[1:24:56] it separate. I think it's end of story, story separately. Uh, that the, the

[1:25:01] violation is disposed of, uh, not include in

[1:25:05] the motion. Uh, it is just gone.

[1:25:10] we agree with that? Mm-hmm . Everybody. Okay.

[1:25:14] we don't, we don't need to vote on that. We're just, it's vacated. We can do it.

[1:25:18] let's, uh, here, here's the motion. I make a motion. We've disposed

[1:25:23] of the sworn, um, violation. Alright,

[1:25:27] second vote. Aye. Aye. Gone away.

[1:25:32] alright, uh, let's move along please. Thank you all. That was

[1:25:36] a hairy one. Um, all we've got now is, uh,

[1:25:40] number five. Is there, is there another

[1:25:44] violation that I missed? There's not, but I, but I would ask the board just for a little

[1:25:49] of guidance. Uh, this one was easy to bring before

[1:25:53] the board 'cause obviously there was a violation the board needed to dispose of. Yes

[1:25:57] sir. And so the issue of the multi-user, whether that's commercial

[1:26:01] or non-commercial. So I would just ask the board if it wanted to provide any

[1:26:05] guidance on a going forward basis. If I have another application,

[1:26:10] a jpa with a multi multi-user peer, whether the

[1:26:14] board considers that exempt or requiring a hearing. I

[1:26:19] only speak for myself. I think it should be on a case by case, uh,

[1:26:23] round the rum. Do you understand the question? Uh, should is,

[1:26:27] is it set in stone as of this moment? Um,

[1:26:32] if it is this, it's commercial, if it's that it's private, uh,

[1:26:36] or is on a case by case. Well, to be consistent with vmrc,

[1:26:41] they consider joint use peers something they have to permit.

[1:26:45] so I would suggest that we continue on the same line that they do just to be,

[1:26:49] 'cause we're gonna be dealing with the same peers. Yes, sir. Uh,

[1:26:54] makes sense to, uh, gene wayne. But to be honest with you, it's a lot

[1:26:58] easier if we don't , but well, uh, I think we can,

[1:27:02] I think if we, uh, align ourselves, uh, and

[1:27:07] ms. Gorman is here to, uh, give us some guidance,

[1:27:11] I think that we can do it on a case by case until we have two

[1:27:15] or three under our belts. And then if we see that it is black and white, then we're going

[1:27:19] to put it in a book. Okay. Okay. Fair deal. Yes. Alright. What else you got?

[1:27:23] um, I, there are no jpa

[1:27:28] for the next meeting. I think I distributed one at the last meeting that I thought was gonna be heard

[1:27:32] highly. Right. But they have, uh, reconfigured their, uh,

[1:27:36] design such that it's no longer in the wetlands. So, uh, that means

[1:27:40] I don't, I've got it here. When's, when's june meeting? Uh,

[1:27:45] I got it if you need it.

[1:27:52] if I do sign it wrong, please. It's, it's back to the fourth thursday. May,

[1:27:56] may was gonna be the third. Uh, somebody look up, uh, I got it

[1:28:00] in my calendar if you need it. Here we go. Um, so the fourth

[1:28:05] thursday in june is the 25th. 25th. Yes. Alright.

[1:28:09] uh, moving on to number five. Uh, there is no meeting

[1:28:13] or next month. So our next scheduled meeting is june 25th,

[1:28:18] uh, thursday, 10 o'clock right here in chambers.

[1:28:22] um, anybody have anything from,

[1:28:27] I I do have one question for yes sir. Um,

[1:28:32] it's my understanding, um, that vmrc

[1:28:36] has taken a harder line when it comes to, uh,

[1:28:41] both rip wrap and bulkheading. Now is

[1:28:45] is I, am I not thinking correctly on that? Um, could

[1:28:50] you expand a little bit? Um,

[1:28:54] I think they're pushing more and more for living shorelines than

[1:28:58] they have in the past. And you've almost got to now justify, uh, stone

[1:29:03] rip wrap more than we've had in the past is that we have only, um,

[1:29:07] I, we approach it on a case by case basis. I mean, I would say,

[1:29:12] um, so that hadn't changed to being, being consistent with those state mandate for

[1:29:16] living shorelines. We do ask for justifications for bulkheads and

[1:29:20] revetments. Okay. If a living shoreline is feasible.

[1:29:25] um, but if it's not, but we do like to have that justification on the record.

[1:29:29] they need to put the justification in there. Okay. Yeah. But from where we sit, don't

[1:29:33] we still have our tree that, uh, goes from, uh, living

[1:29:38] all the way to, uh, bulkhead? Yeah. Mm-hmm . We do. Okay.

[1:29:42] alright. Uh, anything else? That's it. We're adjourned.

[1:29:46] alright. Okay. Take the motion.

Apr 23, 2026 Wetlands Board

Agenda

Transcript