[0:01] Let's call to order Alpine City Council

[0:04] meeting for April 28th, 2026.

[0:07] We will start with a roll call starting

[0:09] from Andrew Young and a pledge that will

[0:12] be led by myself as

[0:16] >> Andrew Young present. Brent Remler,

[0:19] present.

[0:20] >> Sarah Blackwell, present.

[0:21] >> Chrissy Anaman, present.

[0:27] » Chessa Custom present. Our

[0:31] [clears throat]

[0:32] [snorts]

[0:33] father in heaven, we are so grateful to

[0:35] be here and have so many community

[0:37] members and uh have the city council and

[0:39] the staff and uh this wonderful building

[0:41] that thou provides for us. We're

[0:43] grateful for the water which thou has

[0:45] sent to help us in this time and we'll

[0:48] never forget where it comes from and all

[0:50] of the other blessings we have. We are

[0:52] grateful to live in such a wonderful

[0:53] place. We pray to pass these blessings

[0:55] on to others. We pray to bless us with

[0:58] our with thy spirit as we make decisions

[1:00] tonight and listen to the residents and

[1:02] one another to do as thou would have us

[1:04] for this town which thou so wonderfully

[1:06] blesses us with. And we say this in the

[1:07] name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[1:09] >> Amen.

[1:10] >> Please stand

[1:13] and repeat after me the pledge. I pledge

[1:16] algiance to the flag of the United

[1:19] States of America and to the republic

[1:22] for which it stands. One nation under

[1:26] God, indivisible, with liberty and

[1:28] justice for all.

[1:35] » Okay, we'll move on to item two, the

[1:37] consent calendar. Are there any

[1:38] questions regarding the items on the

[1:39] consent calendar?

[1:41] >> Not.

[1:42] >> I have five question. Just kidding. That

[1:44] was I had to get you on one.

[1:46] >> I will entertain [clears throat] a

[1:47] motion.

[1:50] >> I'll make a motion to approve the

[1:52] consent calendar as stated.

[1:55] >> I've got second.

[1:56] >> Okay, we've got a motion by Jessica

[1:58] Smeuan, seconded by Andrew

[2:03] and then um let's proceed with the roll

[2:06] call vote starting from Andrew Young.

[2:09] >> Andrew Young, yes. Bren Remley, yes.

[2:11] >> Jessica Simone, yes. Sarah Blackwell,

[2:13] yes. Chrissy Anaman. Yes.

[2:15] >> Okay. Consent calendar is passed. I know

[2:17] Chrissy's voice. That's why I led the

[2:18] pledge because

[2:20] >> Yes. Very sexy. Okay. We'll proceed with

[2:23] public comment. We're starting from

[2:26] >> Linda Black. As you come up to the

[2:29] microphone, if you could state your name

[2:32] and um the street that you live on, you

[2:34] don't have to say your house number um

[2:36] and the city. And then we'll have three

[2:39] minutes per person.

[2:41] >> Okay.

[2:42] >> Either one of these. Yes.

[2:43] >> Yes.

[2:44] >> My name is Linda Black. I live on East

[2:47] Mountain Drive in Alpine.

[2:50] I have a concern about the fence

[2:53] ordinances that are

[2:56] not maybe as beefy as they should be in

[2:59] the Alpine city of Alpine. Our neighbor

[3:02] to Norris down built a freeway fence.

[3:06] Not a fence. It's it's a cement wall on

[3:10] seven adjacent sides to other neighbors.

[3:16] Seven neighbors were affected by an 8

[3:20] foot wall cement

[3:23] fence. Not one single

[3:26] neighbor was called

[3:30] let known. And in two instances that I

[3:34] know of, the fence that was existing was

[3:37] torn down, left in a yard of the

[3:42] adjacent land owner. And to the surprise

[3:46] of everyone, a fence was put up.

[3:50] >> In speaking with uh several of those

[3:53] land owners, the surprise was, "Yeah, I

[3:56] just came out of my house and there was

[3:58] an 8ft

[4:00] it. not a fence, mind you. It's a

[4:02] freeway cement wall around a complex

[4:09] um

[4:11] land piece of land. I understand this

[4:14] also. This land was recently approved

[4:18] for 13 sides. Now, here's the problem

[4:21] with approving land uh owners 13 sides

[4:27] to a specific land.

[4:30] You can't call all your neighbors and

[4:33] let them know what you're doing. Um, and

[4:36] to get that kind of uh buy in with and I

[4:41] don't know how somebody could even build

[4:43] a fence without letting their neighbors

[4:45] know. But um we're not preserving the

[4:49] feel of alpine when we build walls

[4:54] versus

[4:56] um building connection.

[4:59] And that's I think my three minutes.

[5:02] Thank you.

[5:03] >> Thank you very much. Appreciate your

[5:05] comments. Okay, next person up is Rick

[5:09] Black,

[5:11] followed by Michelle Smith.

[5:17] » Hi, Rick Black. I'm the husband of

[5:20] Linda. So, same address.

[5:23] Um, I think all of us have certain

[5:26] ideals and we move to Alpine for various

[5:30] reasons and I believe that if you talk

[5:32] to everyone, yourselves included, you

[5:34] move to this area because of its beauty

[5:36] of its of its of the mountains, it being

[5:39] a rural feel, a nice bedroom community.

[5:43] So,

[5:44] uh, when, uh, and that's the reason we moved to Alpine. We've been here for

[5:49] 39 years. So when this and we call it a

[5:52] freeway vence fence because that's what

[5:55] it is. I have uh friends that come over

[5:57] and they look at this and say, "Oh my

[5:58] goodness, what's going on here?" Uh and I say, "Well, you know, it cuts down

[6:04] on the noise." What noise of the

[6:06] freeway? I'm just being decent here, but

[6:09] um [cough]

[6:11] this this this fence was put in. Not one

[6:15] property owner um was ever contacted. We

[6:19] just came out and it showed up. Now, I'm

[6:22] going to tell you probably the worst

[6:24] thing that I have ever experienced in

[6:26] Alpine. And I'm just going to relate a

[6:27] very quick uh quick experience. And

[6:30] that's when this fence came in. Uh my

[6:33] good neighbor here, Arlland Brewer. Most

[6:35] of you know him. His wife Janica ran

[6:37] planning commission for several decades.

[6:40] Um Arland was in his tractor. The front

[6:44] the fence went up. It's seven feet on

[6:46] the property owner's side, but it is

[6:48] nine feet on his or it's 10 feet on his

[6:51] side because of uh leveling out the

[6:56] property that uh the property owners who

[7:00] owns a fence. But yet when you level

[7:02] that out, it's now 9 ft on Arland's

[7:05] side. So Arland is leaning over on his

[7:07] tractor. I went over uh I didn't know

[7:10] what to say to him. We looked at this.

[7:12] He said, "This comes on the anniversary

[7:14] of Janick's death, and this is what he

[7:15] woke up to." And it broke my heart. And

[7:19] I'm telling you, this is not right. And

[7:21] to for rural Alpine, you you fly an

[7:24] airplane and I am in the helicopter. Um

[7:27] I work for Lifellight and I fly over

[7:28] Alpine all the time. And this thing

[7:31] sticks out like a sore thumb. What in

[7:34] God's green earth in the middle of

[7:35] Alpine with nothing but fields on either

[7:38] side is a freeway fence which was

[7:42] approved by the planning commission and

[7:44] approved by the city council and it's

[7:47] not right. It is not right. Something

[7:50] needs to be done about these ordinances.

[7:52] So, I mean, you've approved it. the

[7:54] property owner followed all of the uh uh

[7:57] the covenants to put this fence in. But

[8:01] we need to take a look at those

[8:02] ordinances because this cannot happen

[8:05] again. There are seven homeowners whose lifestyle has been affected

[8:10] greatly by this freeway fence, myself

[8:13] included, to where we may not stay in

[8:16] Alpine. That's how it has affected us.

[8:18] It has really ruined that particular

[8:20] thing. Thank you for

[8:22] >> Thank you. Thank you very much.

[8:23] Appreciate your comments. Okay, we

[8:27] >> would like to make a request. My good

[8:28] friend Arland was here.

[8:32] Can we get him on?

[8:35] >> Yeah, if you can fill out a card, we'll

[8:36] let him after the last one. Okay. Um,

[8:39] we've got Michelle Smith followed by

[8:40] Greg Smith.

[8:41] >> Thank you, Black Family.

[8:45] » Sure.

[8:48] » Excuse me.

[8:52] Well, if you if you two are both

[8:54] speaking about something and you just

[8:55] want one representative, you can have

[8:56] five minutes or you can each have three

[8:58] minutes.

[8:59] >> I didn't know that. That's good.

[9:04] [clears throat]

[9:06] » This side. Okay.

[9:11] » Okay. Well, my name is Greg Smith and I

[9:14] live at 1365 on Boxelder Drive. You can

[9:16] know the exact address. We purchased our

[9:19] home in 2005, about a decade before Utah

[9:22] County gave approval for the development

[9:24] of Lambert Park Estates. When we bought

[9:27] our home 21 years ago, everyone knew

[9:30] that property, now Lambert Estates,

[9:33] would eventually be developed. It was

[9:35] just a question of when and what

[9:36] density. Alpine's city's master plan

[9:40] recognized that fact and it included a

[9:42] connector road from Boxelder Way

[9:45] directly west down the hill to Moy Drive

[9:48] following an existing dirt road.

[9:50] Michelle has given you all packets with

[9:52] copies of that map. It's page two.

[9:56] Interesting to note that when we moved

[9:58] here, Heritage Hills Drive, where Mayor

[10:00] Merrell lives, hadn't been constructed,

[10:03] but it was part of the master plan,

[10:05] exactly like the road connecting Box

[10:07] Elder Way to Moy Drive. The city

[10:09] followed through and finished Heritage

[10:11] Hills Drive, but changed the master plan

[10:14] with regard to Box Elder Way. That was

[10:16] long after we moved here way back in

[10:19] 2005. We knew that our immediate

[10:21] neighbors would drive past our house,

[10:23] but there was no possible way we could

[10:25] have foreseen traffic from an additional

[10:27] 56 homes in an entirely new subdivision

[10:30] being routed past our house. The city

[10:34] did this to us. That's why we're asking

[10:38] the city for a wall right in front of

[10:41] our house. We will also need you to

[10:44] approve any variance in code to allow an

[10:47] opaque privacy fence in the front yard.

[10:50] Please also consider extending the wall

[10:52] onto city property west of the pump

[10:54] house. This wall needs to be thick

[10:57] enough and tall enough to block out road

[10:59] noise. Um our neighbors across the

[11:02] street build a retaining wall which

[11:04] bounces the road noise right into our

[11:06] house. They didn't ask us about that. So

[11:09] we we we sympathize. Um, I think the ID

[11:13] we would we like our neighbors, so we

[11:15] would prefer to diffuse acoustic energy

[11:18] than simply reflect it. There's a

[11:19] photograph in um in your packet. The

[11:22] ideal would be a gabian basket wall. I'm

[11:26] sure you've seen this type of

[11:28] construction such um like on this

[11:30] property along North Utah County

[11:32] Boulevard in Highland across from Lone

[11:34] Peak. We've spoken with two experienced

[11:36] contractors. Each one assures us that

[11:39] they can make an even nicer looking

[11:40] wall. Um, those people in Highland built

[11:43] their own wall, which is why it take

[11:44] took so long. I talked to one of them.

[11:47] Andrew has shown report uh support for

[11:49] our request. We're looking for at least

[11:51] one additional sponsor so that this

[11:54] request can be put on the agenda for

[11:55] further discussion in a future meeting.

[11:58] Thank you,

[12:06] » Michelle.

[12:09] will be followed by Mario, then

[12:11] Michelle Kafussi.

[12:16] Um, my name is Michelle Smith, 1365 East

[12:20] Boxelder Drive. On page two of the

[12:22] packet that I gave you, it shows the map

[12:25] and you can see where I've circled in

[12:27] yellow up there, there's a blue dotted

[12:29] line and the gen the um the legend says

[12:33] that it's an existing local road. Um

[12:37] that this if you look at the top right

[12:38] left hand corner, I used a microscope on

[12:40] that that is um this map was made in

[12:43] 1987. So 7 years before our home was

[12:46] built in 1993. We we we bought our home

[12:50] in 2005.

[12:53] So from this from this pulpit and from

[12:57] the people up on here, I've heard a lot

[12:59] of people say that

[13:03] um including Troy Stout, the former

[13:05] mayor,

[13:07] that the people on Boxelder Drive know

[13:09] what they're getting into by having all

[13:11] the traffic rerouted to past our house.

[13:15] Um page

[13:18] Um,

[13:20] page six, I've highlighted in the middle

[13:23] of the page and put a star. Troy Stout,

[13:26] this is the agenda. Okay, Troy Stout

[13:29] said the people who bought lots up there

[13:31] knew what they were buying. He didn't

[13:32] think the city was obligated to pave the

[13:35] road. That was that road that was

[13:36] already in the in the map from 1987.

[13:41] We were told when we bought this when we

[13:44] bought our house that there was just a

[13:46] handful of homes in the neighborhood at

[13:48] the time. We were told that after 20 20

[13:51] homes were built, the city ordinance

[13:53] said that a secondary paved access road

[13:55] would be made. And so we were waiting

[13:57] this time for a secondary road to be put

[14:00] in.

[14:01] Now, there are 80 homes, more than 80

[14:05] homes up there, 66 new ones in the

[14:08] Lambert Park South, and they're all

[14:10] rerouted past our house.

[14:13] It's horrible. The traffic is horrible.

[14:17] I hear it all day long. [snorts] And our

[14:20] home is particularly vulnerable because

[14:22] we're on such a high incline. And so,

[14:25] traffic is going 45 miles an hour down

[14:27] that road constantly, all day long.

[14:32] In addition to the wall, we'd like you

[14:34] to provide for us. We would like to have

[14:37] some um speed bumps put in so that

[14:40] people have to actually go 25 miles an

[14:42] hour.

[14:44] But it's just unlivable for me. I can't

[14:47] even sit in my bedroom and read without

[14:50] hearing all kinds of traffic. It's not

[14:53] just 80 homes of worth of traffic. It's

[14:56] all the cement trucks, the earth movers,

[14:58] the construction vehicles, the

[14:59] contractors.

[15:04] It truly is a burden. I've lived here my

[15:06] whole life. My family moved here when I

[15:08] was four years old. I never thought that

[15:10] the city due to their own

[15:15] preference for recreation

[15:19] to make their recreation more

[15:22] pleasant for them.

[15:25] Thank you for your comment.

[15:29] Okay, let's move on with Mario Himenez

[15:32] followed by Michelle Kafussi.

[15:41] » Good afternoon. My name is Mario

[15:42] Jimenez. I live on Whitman Whitby

[15:44] Woodlands Drive. um take a couple of

[15:46] minutes of the councils just to let them

[15:48] know that uh it has come to my attention

[15:51] this past week that um a dear resident

[15:54] of Alpine that we all know and loved for

[15:56] a very long time named Bertha Adams who

[15:58] lived to be like 350 years old. Um

[16:01] Bertha's prized possession was

[16:04] >> Bertha's prized possession was an organ

[16:07] that she had had brought over from

[16:08] Germany. George and Jan Young have been

[16:11] storing this organ in a in a storage

[16:13] unit for the last five years. Since

[16:16] George Young's passing, Jan is in the

[16:18] process of cleaning out that storage

[16:20] unit. Jan reached out to me and asked me

[16:22] if I'd come and speak to the city

[16:23] council today. Their interest obviously

[16:26] is not to get rid of the organ to sell

[16:28] it, even though they have plenty of

[16:30] offers to buy it. She wants to make it a

[16:32] part of the Alpine heritage and she's

[16:34] wondering if Alpine might have uh either

[16:37] a permanent or a temporary storage for

[16:39] that organ until uh and I believe in

[16:42] speaking with Andrew and with Jessica

[16:43] they mentioned the fact that there's

[16:45] some sort of senior citizen memorial or

[16:48] legacy center or something.

[16:50] >> There's a community center. Yes.

[16:51] >> Yeah. So maybe maybe that would be the

[16:53] end place. In the meantime, a couple

[16:55] people have suggested to me that there

[16:57] might be space in the new Alpine Library

[17:00] uh to to put it there. So, um Jan is uh

[17:03] very motivated to have this moved out of

[17:06] her storage unit. Uh I'm sure we could

[17:08] come up with uh a couple people with

[17:10] strong back and weak minds to go over

[17:12] and move this thing and and and take it

[17:15] to where it needs to be done. I think

[17:16] it's a really historic piece of alpine

[17:19] and I would uh ask the city council to

[17:22] consider figuring out a permanent home

[17:24] for the Oregon. Thank you.

[17:25] >> Thank you for bringing that up. Um let's

[17:28] see. Michelle Kussi followed by Arwin

[17:30] Brewer.

[17:36] » Michelle Kussi, 318 Comanche Lane in

[17:39] Provo. I am honored to be here tonight,

[17:43] Madame Mayor and honorable council

[17:45] members. Especially when I looked at the

[17:48] date that I thought you are in budget

[17:49] season and it is not an easy time for

[17:52] municipalities and public officials. So,

[17:56] thank you for what you do. I'm here to

[17:58] introduce myself. I was seven years on

[18:01] the Provo School District and then

[18:02] almost a decade as the Provo City Mayor

[18:04] and have now thrown my hat in to run for

[18:07] county commissioner seat A. There are

[18:09] two seats up. There's seat A and seat B

[18:12] and I am in the primary for seat A. Um,

[18:16] and just wanted to bring my skill set.

[18:20] I've worked with a lot of you and know a

[18:22] lot of you and I've enjoyed my

[18:23] relationships with you. I think you're

[18:25] wonderful public servants and I support

[18:28] you. But just wanted to let you know

[18:31] that I will be on the primary ballot.

[18:33] This uh the ballots come June 4th and

[18:36] June 23rd is the primary election and

[18:38] that is my election. So just wanted to

[18:41] get myself in front of all 25 cities in

[18:44] the county. It's not easy to hit all

[18:46] these council meetings. we need to work

[18:47] on staggering, but would love to bring

[18:50] my skill set to the county and um my

[18:53] credentials and my reputation for

[18:55] collaboration and bringing people

[18:56] together. I I tried to calm the fire. I

[19:00] tried to say, "Okay, sit down and you've

[19:03] done this for a long time, but there's

[19:05] this nudge and push in me that isn't

[19:09] going to sit still." So, here I am, and

[19:12] I'm and Mayor Merrill and a couple of

[19:14] you others have my cell phone. Please

[19:16] feel free to share that with whoever

[19:18] might have questions for me and I would

[19:21] love to answer them. And thank you for

[19:23] giving me the time and hopefully things

[19:25] go smoothly tonight with budget talk.

[19:28] But thank you again for allowing me a

[19:30] few minutes tonight.

[19:32] >> Thank you.

[19:35] » Okay.

[19:45] First of all, I want to thank all of you

[19:48] for your precious time tonight.

[19:53] » I'm Arlon Brewer. I live at 673 South

[19:57] High Bench Road in Alpine.

[20:01] 59 years ago, my bride, who just arrived

[20:08] from Sweden

[20:10] and I came to Alpine to look for a new

[20:13] home and we found it. And the reason

[20:17] that we moved here is the same reason

[20:21] all of you moved here because of the

[20:25] quality

[20:28] that is here and the beauty and the

[20:32] things and and and thanks to Brian or

[20:36] that we have the safety of the city.

[20:39] What a beautiful place to live in,

[20:41] folks.

[20:43] To wake up in the morning to have a

[20:45] prison wall in your backyard

[20:48] is another thing. And I want to thank

[20:50] Andrew Young there for stepping up way

[20:53] he did and tried to help us there.

[20:57] There's not much we can do with that

[20:59] 10-ft

[21:01] prison wall in my backyard. But

[21:03] hopefully we as a city as citizens of

[21:07] the city can make it make it to where it

[21:10] doesn't show up in your backyard

[21:13] because you just never know. You just we

[21:16] didn't know have any idea something

[21:19] would

[21:21] come in our backyard to eliminate the

[21:24] beauty of being able to see our

[21:26] mountains in the quality the western

[21:28] atmosphere we have. So I plead with you

[21:33] to please find it to where other people

[21:37] doesn't have to suffer the way we are as

[21:40] neighbors. Thank you for your time.

[21:42] >> Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

[21:43] >> Thank you Harland for coming.

[21:48] Okay, let's move on to reports and

[21:50] presentations.

[21:52] Sculpture garden committee report. Is

[21:54] that you, Chrissy, or is that okay?

[21:58] Bob, come on up. If you can introduce

[22:00] yourself,

[22:02] >> I am Bob Hansen, a resident of American

[22:05] Fork, but I work at the Alpine Arts

[22:08] Center um and the Heritage Arts

[22:10] Foundation. We have a update and a

[22:13] presentation that we'd like to share

[22:14] with you. I've got a couple of guests

[22:16] like to have you guys come on up with me

[22:19] and um if you just maybe introduce

[22:22] yourselves real quick.

[22:25] >> Go ahead.

[22:27] >> Hi, we are representatives from Holdman

[22:29] Studios. Holdman and my husband Tom

[22:31] Holdman here. We actually have the

[22:33] property 1225 North Fort Canyon here in

[22:36] Alpine. So, we love this area. We honor

[22:38] and acknowledge what you're doing here

[22:40] and the difficulty that it involves.

[22:42] We're very grateful for the opportunity

[22:43] to share.

[22:46] » And I'm Jordan Ring Sakab, Mountain

[22:49] Eagle Mountain.

[22:53] » Well, so much of what I have in the

[22:56] slides um will be a little bit of a

[22:58] recap. Um the next slide um a lot of

[23:02] content we're not going to go over it

[23:04] but I provided it just so that you would

[23:06] have it for later. um what it is, where

[23:11] it is, and then the next slide uh what

[23:15] will be there. And we want to uh share

[23:19] with you that we've had some incredible

[23:22] discussions with the Holdman's and um

[23:25] very excited about an opportunity that's

[23:28] I think going to make the park much much

[23:31] more complete and um comprehensive. So

[23:35] you see the um kind of those check marks

[23:39] midway down the sculptures. Dennis Smith

[23:43] stained glass and we'll share a little

[23:45] bit of what that will look like from the

[23:47] Holdman's and um of course Emily Brooks

[23:50] Wayman with the design. Um if you go to

[23:53] the next slide, uh we do have a list of

[23:57] the plants. Um we don't have the

[24:00] quantity yet, but that is something that

[24:02] will be forthcoming. Um we uh we pulled

[24:06] the the plant list from the city

[24:09] website. Um and so that's where a lot of

[24:12] this has come from. And um the next

[24:16] slide, this is where we get into

[24:18] something interesting. And I'd like the

[24:21] holdman's to take some time to explain

[24:24] what we've got going on here.

[24:26] >> All right. I'm happy to be here.

[24:33] got a slow tongue at times but though so

[24:37] I am really excited about this I have

[24:41] driven like by here over and over again

[24:44] like for the years and I thought

[24:46] wouldn't it be wonderful and so here well so here here though we are so

[24:54] how how do you make an

[24:59] iconic a

[25:02] gathering place and an

[25:05] icon and still have it be a small

[25:12] immunity. And I think we've got the

[25:14] answer. And so with a zebo

[25:23] lash like lighthouse

[25:26] lash

[25:28] uh a uh beacon of light. And so that is

[25:32] where like we had those sketch this and

[25:35] then um on on those though

[25:41] herbs hang glass windows. I got the idea

[25:44] like from that arch up there too. So

[25:47] then here. Yeah. Unveil the arch.

[25:52] >> There we go. like we've been like

[25:54] sketching these

[25:56] concepts for uh many hours and then

[26:01] days, you know, to really to though tie

[26:03] in what what it means to be in

[26:10] Alpine like from uh living here for

[26:14] though like 50

[26:16] what like 50 like took two years, right?

[26:18] 59

[26:20] >> 58 years and then also like those who

[26:25] have just moved in. How do you become

[26:32] integral like

[26:34] the like like

[26:38] that like fabric of

[26:43] time and so we can get more into the

[26:46] artwork. But though, can you imagine

[26:49] having

[26:52] poppies all year long? Wouldn't that be

[26:55] wonderful? And then all these sunflowers

[26:59] too you know like to the plant flowers

[27:04] uh uh uh uh which will never like wither

[27:08] you know and so and then like with that

[27:12] too on that art glass and I don't know

[27:14] how much time I have so I will move

[27:16] ahead and so and so can you track time and so our

[27:26] calendar is a uh lunar

[27:30] calendar and that's why like we have the

[27:32] leap year but let's make one that's

[27:35] exactly right all the time and so

[27:39] you know

[27:44] through rhythms you know like the track

[27:48] that time and and and

[27:54] yades that you know like did you want to

[27:55] add to that at all or

[27:57] >> in that particular aspect?

[27:59] >> Um really Alpine has a rich history and

[28:02] we understand that it's there's quite a

[28:04] bit of time that has passed here and

[28:06] what has changed throughout that time is

[28:08] quite remarkable and what has stayed the

[28:10] same is that it's a beautiful place to

[28:12] be and it's filled with beautiful

[28:13] people. So, we would love to be able to

[28:15] have this incredible sun that we have to

[28:18] sunlight, which is what brings the life

[28:22] to this unique, uniquely inspiring and

[28:24] intriguing art form of stained glass.

[28:26] Um, to have that be able to reflect that

[28:28] time and be one more additional thing

[28:30] for people to consider the background,

[28:32] the history of this community and this

[28:35] place and what they're adding to its

[28:37] future. And then also, you know, to

[28:41] though tell the story well but how well

[28:45] but how though like do you get the story

[28:49] out there and then how do you get it

[28:52] into the though like younger like

[28:54] generation, right? Like this, right? And

[28:57] so and so like where we so like next we

[29:00] well like we well so like pull out uh uh uh your phones and then scan over

[29:09] that code right now. Try it out. Well

[29:12] it's like this is is is

[29:18] like being like launched like by like uh

[29:21] by like below state

[29:25] capital here. And so it will be used in schools and then we'll so and see how

[29:33] it is like 3D as you move. Well like try

[29:37] this out. Everybody try it out.

[29:40] >> You see how it's working.

[29:42] >> And then though if

[29:44] >> if you capture all the bees and see what

[29:47] happens and so it will tell you about

[29:50] our state, right? And so and so like

[29:54] that's only like be those like tip of

[29:56] the iceberg. But if you if if you had

[30:01] any questions right now, I can answer

[30:04] those maybe

[30:06] >> or not.

[30:08] >> Stay stay.

[30:09] >> Okay.

[30:09] >> Um you know, you can imagine um people

[30:13] who lived in dugouts.

[30:17] >> People who lived in the dugouts in those

[30:19] early times. um was it seven families I

[30:23] think um incredible families. You can

[30:27] actually see them digging right with

[30:29] this app. Um and it comes alive. It

[30:32] brings it to life. Um I just I want to I

[30:35] want to thank Andrew first of all for

[30:38] bringing this idea of sharing historic

[30:42] people um to the forefront, right? Um

[30:47] we haven't changed what we're doing.

[30:49] We're still talking about these

[30:51] incredible statues, more metaphoric,

[30:55] right? More metaphorical. Um, and they

[30:58] relate incredibly to the values that

[31:00] grew out of Alpine's history. Uh, but

[31:03] the individual stories, events, those

[31:07] things need to be told. Um, and so just

[31:10] a a shout out to you for bringing that

[31:14] to us. Um, and the rest of the group has

[31:17] just kind of circled around that and

[31:19] really loved this and we reached out to

[31:22] the Holdman's who uh to say they were

[31:24] enthusiastic. Um, they just were in Brea

[31:30] uh

[31:32] >> Yorinda Belinda close your Belinda,

[31:35] California with a temple opening. They

[31:37] changed their flight schedule so they

[31:39] could be here tonight. Um, and uh

[31:42] they're very very committed to this.

[31:44] They have some donors that they think

[31:46] they would like to engage. They want to

[31:48] host a gathering on their property here

[31:50] in Alpine. Um and uh we're we're so

[31:54] close. We just finished the shooting of

[31:56] a video um which will be circulated in

[31:59] the coming days. Um but that will be

[32:02] used predominantly in these host

[32:04] gatherings that we've talked about

[32:06] before. That's where we'll start and

[32:08] then we'll work our way out in terms of

[32:10] fundraising. So somewhere still around

[32:13] four million um in that range and we're

[32:17] excited that it's a private sector um

[32:20] opportunity um and so we're grateful for

[32:22] this chance.

[32:26] » Thank you very much. Appreciate your

[32:28] time guys and all the effort that you

[32:30] put into it. It looks like be beautiful.

[32:34] Okay, let's move on to item five.

[32:40] We will do

[32:41] >> Can we give a couple comments to him or

[32:43] is this not discussion or a couple

[32:45] questions?

[32:47] >> We don't have to.

[32:48] >> This is an update. I think you can you

[32:49] know who Chrissy, are you still on the

[32:51] committee?

[32:52] >> You know what? Why don't you discuss

[32:54] >> just thank you for all y'all did and

[32:57] >> just thank you. That's amazing. Thank

[32:59] you for the residents for coming.

[33:02] >> So, let's move on to discussion items.

[33:04] So, we've got Dan Wayne from MAG who's

[33:07] here to help us. And we've got Kaden.

[33:08] And is Ryan online?

[33:12] >> No,

[33:13] >> he's still Okay. So, Dan, thanks for

[33:15] coming. What?

[33:18] >> Right. I think he's in planning

[33:19] commission. Do we want Dan to come to

[33:20] the microphone or how do we want to

[33:23] >> I can start off by just reminding the

[33:25] council about this project and um how we

[33:28] got here, I guess, if that's all right

[33:29] with everybody. um which is new to me as

[33:32] well obviously with being here uh just

[33:35] recently but um yeah if you all recall

[33:38] this has been a long time coming this

[33:39] small area plan for Main Street and the

[33:41] gateway corridors um so we received a

[33:45] grant from from MAG from the Mountain

[33:48] Association of Governments to create a

[33:50] master plan focused primarily on the

[33:52] gateway corridors which is Alpine

[33:54] Highway Canyon Crest and Westfield and

[33:56] Main Street and multi the citizens have

[34:00] been involved. There's been a steering

[34:01] committee, uh, workshops, uh, a design

[34:04] cheret, and the purpose of the plan is

[34:07] to create a long-term visioning document

[34:10] that establishes a shared vision and

[34:12] framework for how the main street and

[34:14] gateway corridor should grow and develop

[34:16] over time. So, a small area plan, just

[34:19] to remind everybody, is we have a

[34:21] general plan for our city, which is a

[34:23] general guiding document of how we want

[34:25] the city to look over the next 10, 20,

[34:29] 50 years. and we update that

[34:30] periodically. A small area plan is

[34:33] basically a general plan but for a

[34:35] specific area and so in this case as

[34:37] I've we as I just said it's for the main

[34:40] street and the the gateway corridors of

[34:42] our city. So the goal of that is not to

[34:45] create new code new zoning ordinances

[34:47] but to create that designing that

[34:49] guiding and visionary document that we

[34:51] want for those areas of our city because

[34:52] they are those those gateways. Um so

[34:56] just to recap um the plan will focus on

[35:01] the project vision, purpose, planning

[35:03] framework. Um it's heavily involved with

[35:05] community engagement. Um it will be a

[35:08] lot about placemaking, public spaces,

[35:10] civic amenities. Um, basically creating

[35:13] a place for the public, for Alpine

[35:16] citizens to be, to have random

[35:19] encounters, spontaneous encounters with

[35:21] other Alpine residents and make our city

[35:24] a more uh cohesive and beautiful place.

[35:28] >> You want anything specific?

[35:30] >> Um, yeah. And you can see on the screen

[35:32] here, this is the uh the background

[35:34] information on what's already happened

[35:36] with this. So, this has gone through

[35:38] planning commission. They decided to

[35:41] break this up into four different

[35:43] meetings. I believe um there was four

[35:46] different motions that were made. You

[35:48] can see here they decided to focus on

[35:50] the areas that were most pertinent to

[35:52] them as the planning commission. So they

[35:55] one one of the meetings they focused on

[35:57] the the main street quarter gateway

[35:59] overall project. One of the meetings

[36:01] they focused on the implementation

[36:03] matrix. Um, one of them they focused on

[36:05] the traffic management plan and then one

[36:08] of them was on the design guidelines of

[36:10] Main Street. Um,

[36:13] and so we decided, Kirsty kind of

[36:16] mentioned in our last city council

[36:18] meeting maybe a way to go about this

[36:20] document kind of similar to how the

[36:22] planning commission did that. She sent

[36:24] it a document to all of us through email

[36:27] of maybe how we can do that. And so

[36:30] today we were planning on starting with

[36:32] that part A that she she put on there.

[36:34] We have part A, part B, and part C. And

[36:36] part B and C will be talked about at

[36:38] future meetings. Um so the goal of today

[36:40] was to focus on that part A that's in

[36:43] your packets. Um and discuss that and

[36:45] answer any questions about those first

[36:47] parts of the plan and the appendices A

[36:51] and C.

[36:56] » Yeah, this is fine.

[37:01] No, I didn't. I asked him to come to

[37:03] start.

[37:05] >> Okay.

[37:08] » If you want to scroll down just

[37:12] » so I guess just to get the ball rolling

[37:14] a little bit, feel free to chime in

[37:15] whenever and ask questions. Um the first

[37:19] part was um kind of the vision, the

[37:22] purpose of the plan and what are our

[37:24] objectives that uh of doing this plan.

[37:29] Answering those kind of basic questions

[37:31] of of actually carrying out this small

[37:34] area plan and then what is a character

[37:37] area that was talked about heavily in

[37:39] this in in the plan. What is a gateway

[37:42] corridor? any types of questions like

[37:43] that that you might uh be confused about

[37:46] or just want to clarify. Um so if you

[37:49] scroll down here, this is the project.

[37:52] Yeah, this is the project overview. You

[37:54] can see the the area boundary on there

[37:56] that shows the main corridors of the

[37:59] city um that go in up to the roundabout

[38:02] here to city hall um and the purpose of

[38:06] the plan and the elements of the plan

[38:09] there.

[38:12] And Ryan did inform me that kind of what

[38:14] spearheaded this project as well was

[38:16] that there was um a mixeduse type

[38:20] structure I think on Main Street that

[38:22] was denied uh maybe didn't meet fully

[38:24] the requirements of of the historic uh the historic gateway requirements of

[38:30] design. And so the council wanted to

[38:33] look into how we could have better

[38:34] design standards, a more cohesive uh

[38:37] approach to that. um and also to do a

[38:41] leakage study, try to see how we can

[38:43] encourage economic growth in this area

[38:45] as well.

[38:49] » Does anyone have any questions so far?

[38:52] >> How do you want to handle this, mayor?

[38:53] Like do we want us to each discuss or do

[38:55] you want to just

[38:55] >> Let's go a little bit. I just Hey, Dan,

[38:57] do you mind coming up to the microphone

[38:59] also? Um

[39:01] so

[39:03] Dan Wayne is from MAG and he has been

[39:07] involved in the process helped us um

[39:10] through the grant the entire process and

[39:12] has attended several of our meetings and

[39:15] he was gracious enough to come um

[39:19] in knowing that maybe Ryan would not be

[39:21] available we asked Dan Dan to come and

[39:23] kind of help us with this project. Do

[39:26] you have any insights or anything that

[39:27] you wanted to um put in? Kayen, you did

[39:30] a great job. I know that we asked you to

[39:32] come up to speed really quickly,

[39:35] but did you have any more additional

[39:38] insights you wanted to include on I

[39:41] think what we're going to do is we're

[39:42] just going to kind of break it up and do

[39:44] it over several meetings because I don't

[39:46] think we'll be able to get it all done.

[39:48] Um

[39:49] >> yeah, thank you, mayor. Appreciate it.

[39:51] and council members. Once again, Dan

[39:52] Wayne. I'm the community planning and

[39:55] economic development manager at MAG. And

[39:58] it was my pleasure to partner with the

[40:00] city on this project. Uh our role is to

[40:03] provide funding and to the degree that

[40:05] it's useful some um technical assistance

[40:08] uh throughout the process. So, um but it's a a city-led project uh with

[40:14] city staff managing the project and it's

[40:16] your vision. Uh we're just here to

[40:18] support you with that. Um we have in

[40:22] addition to funding uh this project uh

[40:25] we also have another application that

[40:27] the city has submitted uh to do uh to

[40:31] revisit your development code which is

[40:34] kind of the implementation side of this

[40:36] vision that we're working on right now.

[40:39] Uh so we're excited to partner with you

[40:40] on that project as well and just

[40:43] encourage you to to carefully consider

[40:46] um this plan and its contents and to um

[40:50] come to consensus and wrap that up so

[40:52] that we can uh move forward uh with the

[40:55] next grant and and get you working

[40:58] towards the details uh the

[41:00] implementation side of things. Um, it's

[41:04] been a a really good process that the

[41:07] city's gone through. And uh, I would say

[41:10] though that with any plan like this,

[41:13] there's always going to be things about

[41:15] it that maybe you don't like personally,

[41:18] there's always going to be um, some

[41:20] differences.

[41:22] It's not, this isn't an implementation

[41:24] plan. It's a vision. Um and so if

[41:27] there's any details that you're not 100%

[41:30] comfortable with, um those can be

[41:31] addressed on a project by project level.

[41:34] Um when development applications come,

[41:37] uh when we work on the development codes

[41:39] that's coming next, uh those types of

[41:42] things. So it's not a a vision, a plan

[41:45] like this isn't a binding commitment for

[41:48] you to implement every line and every

[41:52] action in it. It's a direction that you

[41:55] generally agree on and that you aim to

[41:58] work together to implement. So, thank

[42:00] you.

[42:02] >> Thank you, D. Okay. Um

[42:09] let's go ahead and um if you have I'm

[42:12] sure you have plenty of questions and

[42:15] since you are first on um on the

[42:18] rotation for tonight's meeting

[42:20] >> and you did you have some questions

[42:22] regarding the beginning of this project

[42:25] like scratching

[42:26] >> we're not going to be discussing the

[42:27] entirety of it right just the sections

[42:29] that we're going to

[42:30] >> before I go into it um are there certain

[42:32] parts you want to discuss or do you just

[42:34] want to focus on elements that we

[42:35] grabbed from it. I wasn't exactly clear

[42:38] how we were going to uh separate it.

[42:40] >> I think we can talk, you know what,

[42:42] let's talk about how we're going to

[42:42] separate it first. Um we talked about,

[42:45] you know, looking at the whole thing and

[42:46] then breaking out in chunks. I think it

[42:48] was first suggested that, you know, um

[42:52] the vision and then vision for the

[42:55] gateway corridors, the gateway corridors

[42:57] today and then um maybe the alpine city

[43:00] main street and gateway corridor small

[43:02] area plan and then the first parts and

[43:04] then yeah and then maybe we could break

[43:06] it up into three.

[43:08] >> Okay,

[43:08] >> let's see if we can get through those

[43:10] three first three chunks.

[43:13] Although

[43:14] section three is a big chunk of it, but

[43:17] let's see if we can try to get through

[43:18] that.

[43:18] >> Okay, I'll I'll go on a couple things.

[43:21] Can you tell me what what is section

[43:22] three in your mind?

[43:24] >> How long do you how long do you think

[43:25] it'll take us to go over the budgeting

[43:27] process because that's move backwards.

[43:30] >> Depends on how many questions you have,

[43:32] but I mean

[43:34] I honestly think max 30 minutes. But

[43:38] >> for the budget,

[43:39] >> it's it's kind of a higher level

[43:42] overview at this time and then

[43:44] >> I think as we meet individually there

[43:46] might be more questions and more

[43:48] questions answered and maybe less at the

[43:49] next.

[43:50] >> That's a lot an hour and 15 minutes from

[43:52] so from now till about 8:00.

[43:54] >> Let's just go [clears throat] from the

[43:56] beginning. Anyone? Okay. So let's go

[43:58] through the first section which is a

[43:59] vision for Alpine Cities Gateway

[44:01] Corridors. The first um

[44:04] >> Okay. You want me to start on the vision

[44:05] >> pages? So, let's just start on that

[44:07] first.

[44:08] >> Okay. Yeah. So, uh

[44:10] >> sorry, if you want me to show something,

[44:13] just tell me what you want.

[44:14] >> Okay, I'll I'll go quickly.

[44:16] >> Well, I just don't want to guess, so all

[44:18] of you just tell me what you want.

[44:19] >> So, fantastic job, Kaden. I'm so proud

[44:22] of you how you delivered this. Thank you

[44:23] so much. There is nothing in this plan

[44:26] that I am against. I love it all.

[44:28] >> Okay, pick me up off the floor.

[44:30] >> No, I know. I I There is I have

[44:32] >> literally scrape scrape scrape. I

[44:35] [cough] love this plan. I love the

[44:36] conclusions you came to. I feel like it

[44:40] is what residents are asking for and I

[44:42] feel like y'all did a fantastic job. Um

[44:46] I just have some things that you might

[44:47] be able to add to it. Is that okay if I

[44:49] bring them up? Just some additions that

[44:51] might be able to be added. Um I put this

[44:53] I tried to condense it really tight for

[44:55] the vision part. So I put it in a

[44:56] document. Uh um and don't take this as a

[44:59] criticism. take this as something that

[45:01] is my effort to try to balance this with

[45:03] a couple additional things. I think

[45:05] everything you've put in is you've done

[45:07] a great job at surveying the people. Um

[45:10] you've done a fantastic job at like I've

[45:14] been doing this too over the last months

[45:17] on a completely different path and

[45:18] you've been doing it technically and we

[45:20] came to the same conclusions. So I I

[45:22] couldn't be happier that you're right in

[45:24] line with the uh uh residents. Um, if

[45:27] you just pull up on the items to share,

[45:29] Heidi, there is a uh uh simple wording

[45:32] uh on the on that that one right there.

[45:34] Okay. So, when I was reading the vision, document,

[45:40] you have these wonderful things about

[45:41] preserving history, there are recreation

[45:44] elements in the vision and I don't know

[45:46] if you read the first pages and our

[45:48] economic v vitality. You have language

[45:50] like ma major recreational destinations.

[45:54] Um, don't don't worry about that. Ski

[45:56] resorts in Lake Pal example. I'll bring

[45:57] that up a little. The thing that I

[45:59] thought you could add to it, and I know

[46:00] this isn't often done, but I can explain

[46:04] why I think it's valued, especially for

[46:05] Alpine, is something about our faith.

[46:07] And I put wordage that you could include

[46:10] that would add a piece that I think is a

[46:13] pillar that you would get as well if you

[46:15] reached out to um residents. Something

[46:18] community valuing, religious respect, or

[46:21] historic and pioneering heritage. It's a

[46:24] little different than just history. Uh

[46:26] we're religiously rooted and connected

[46:29] community. Um we're a faith connected

[46:32] community. We're god- centered. We're

[46:33] church centered. Now I know government

[46:35] is not supposed to be involved in

[46:38] religion. But our city was created by

[46:40] it. Our community is in circled by it.

[46:44] And it's such a pivotal piece. And the

[46:47] reason I bring it up is something I hope

[46:48] you would consider adding to it is

[46:51] because the cities I noticed that remove

[46:52] it and then rely on the secular things

[46:55] like just economic vitality or historic

[46:59] or just recreational destinations start

[47:02] to spiral. I'm talking about the mission

[47:04] in San Francisco or other places. Now

[47:07] people might not like this but it is I

[47:10] what I would think is the main

[47:11] ingredient that really does ramp up our

[47:13] city. So anyways, when you say things

[47:15] like in the vision statement,

[47:17] preservation of the historic character,

[47:21] I would add something like preservation

[47:22] of the historic and pioneering character

[47:25] because that's a little different than

[47:26] history. It's the pioneer history. Uh

[47:29] the next thing is you bring up

[47:31] throughout the vision and a lot of other

[47:33] parts a lot of biking, a lot of cyclist

[47:36] friendly, a lot of cyclist uh um

[47:39] prioritizing

[47:41] and that is not um bad but I would hope

[47:45] that we could also add in there some

[47:47] emphasis on the senior friendly stuff.

[47:50] Um I don't know how I put some uh things

[47:53] and so these are not criticism. these

[47:55] are things I think we could add to it

[47:56] that would improve it and more align it

[47:58] with the identity of Alpine. So rather

[48:00] than just cyclist friendly which is

[48:01] things I've pulled from the vision

[48:02] document also senior friendly and you

[48:05] kind of have that with the walking paths

[48:07] and the the walkability but there's a

[48:09] little bit more that would be senior

[48:11] friendly I I put language that might

[48:13] help like retired golden years friendly

[48:15] infrastructure versus just cyclist

[48:17] [clears throat] friendly infrastructure

[48:18] and then there was nothing about horses.

[48:21] I know that sounds ridiculous, but our

[48:23] community uh has a big piece of horse

[48:26] friendly, not just cyclist friendly, but

[48:27] horse friendly and senior friendly. Um,

[48:30] and then on the vision part, uh there's

[48:32] a lot about economic vitality.

[48:35] Um, and the economic and you know, we

[48:38] have a lot of I don't know how else to

[48:40] say it. I put it hot shots are drawn to

[48:42] Alpine. They are. And it's had weird

[48:45] results. I I I don't want to go into

[48:47] them specifically because I don't think

[48:49] it's helpful. But if we just focus on

[48:51] economic vitality, which is good, I

[48:53] think something that could improve that

[48:55] in the language with the vision is not

[48:57] just economic vitality like producing

[48:59] great products and generating great

[49:01] income and revenue, but something that

[49:04] elevates residents uh the bottom ones,

[49:07] the middle ones. Um, and it's it's just

[49:10] another way of saying economic vitality

[49:11] that also lifts uh our residents who are

[49:15] not poor. And and it's funny when you

[49:17] talk to people. Alpine was actually

[49:19] started by poor people. Very poor

[49:21] people. He talked about it digging holes

[49:23] in the side of um the the uh uh

[49:27] cemetery. So they were very poor. They

[49:29] wanted to live in American Fork. I don't

[49:30] know if you know this. They wanted that

[49:32] river. They got kicked out. They came up

[49:33] here to the poor area. It's not so poor

[49:35] anymore, but they elevated the

[49:37] community. So when you talk about

[49:39] economic vitality and pushing it into

[49:40] the other places, all this like untapped

[49:43] taxes we can get. I thought that is

[49:46] great, but if we could add some resident

[49:49] elevating things for those 65 plus those

[49:52] 40k a year people, those heavily um that

[49:57] not hot shots. We have hot shots, but we

[50:00] also have people that aren't. I think

[50:01] that will really round out this economic

[50:04] vision. And that was the only things I

[50:05] had with the vision. Otherwise, I love

[50:07] it. I would sign off on it today. If

[50:09] these are added to it,

[50:12] it's next to the Bible. I love it.

[50:15] >> Thank you, Andrew.

[50:16] >> Yeah,

[50:16] >> Brent,

[50:18] >> uh, no questions. I just appreciate the

[50:20] process and Max's assistance with this

[50:23] and all the work that's gone into it,

[50:25] especially for Ryan. I know he's not

[50:26] online, but thanks Ryan for all you've

[50:28] done and it's been very helpful to be a

[50:30] part of this for the last what it's been

[50:32] a long time. So, I was glad to glad to

[50:34] see it coming to fruition. Um, I like

[50:37] the resident involvement and how it

[50:40] corresponded with what I heard

[50:42] throughout the time I was running for

[50:44] office and the two plus years we've I've

[50:47] been serving about how people like the

[50:50] residential feel of Alpine and want to

[50:51] maintain that. We're not really looking

[50:52] for a lot more um traffic and and noise

[50:57] and congestion, but keep it as a small

[50:59] town. That's all.

[51:01] >> Thank you, Jessica.

[51:03] >> I appreciated your comments, Andrew. I

[51:05] think there are some areas where we

[51:07] could add some of those anchoring

[51:11] words to make sure that we don't lose

[51:14] our heritage. But just no real other

[51:17] comments on the draft of this section.

[51:20] But in addition to you know when we

[51:22] started looking at this Chrissy I think

[51:23] it was maybe four years ago it was three

[51:26] or four years ago we started a steering

[51:28] commission or a steering committee in

[51:30] the summer and that was actually driven

[51:32] by there was a there was an application

[51:35] for use but it was also residents I I

[51:38] mean I remember I couldn't go to a

[51:41] public event and residents wouldn't say

[51:43] can you fix our main street and I would

[51:45] say what does that look like? So three

[51:48] years later, you know, it has been very

[51:50] resonant driven. I would say they

[51:52] actually were the beginning of it and

[51:54] then we had applications and so it's

[51:55] really um nice to have this stage that

[52:00] we're at this stage and we can start to

[52:01] solidify and then move into the

[52:04] development code and I had a question

[52:06] for Dan because as I look at this

[52:08] document there's a piece missing but it

[52:11] may not be appropriate for the visioning

[52:13] part. It may actually need to be part of

[52:16] the you said you're going to work on the

[52:18] development code side and it has to do

[52:21] with the oversight and who's actually

[52:25] looking and reviewing our overall um

[52:28] applications to make sure that they meet

[52:31] our design standards because right now

[52:33] we don't have professionals doing that.

[52:35] I think of it in the same way as we have

[52:36] an engineer that says a foundation of a

[52:39] home is engineered to the certain

[52:41] standards. I um we just at this stage

[52:46] need professional help because you can

[52:48] see without it we're not [clears throat]

[52:50] getting again what our residents are

[52:52] asking for. They don't know how to get

[52:54] there. They just say fix it. So I think

[52:56] fixing it means getting pro more um

[52:59] professionals involved at the

[53:01] application stage. And would that be in

[53:04] part of this draft or would that be

[53:05] something that would come into the

[53:07] development code process?

[53:10] Well, ideally the goal is to have a

[53:12] development code that's um

[53:15] understandable by the lay person and

[53:17] it's clear um it doesn't conflict and it

[53:21] provides enough detail that you don't

[53:24] have to have a you know layers of

[53:27] professional staff to interpret it in

[53:29] order to get the result that you want.

[53:31] So um that's the ideal that's what we we

[53:34] would be working towards with the city.

[53:37] Um, what I always advise u any city

[53:41] that's working on codes though is if you

[53:45] don't know exactly what you want and

[53:48] exactly what you don't want in your

[53:50] community, it's hard to write

[53:51] [clears throat] code

[53:53] that addresses that. The more certain

[53:57] you are and the more clear you can be

[53:59] about that, it is the easier it is to

[54:01] write the code around it. um even to the

[54:04] degree that a lot of times when we're

[54:06] writing these types of code projects,

[54:08] we'll take uh hypothetical bad projects

[54:12] and good projects and we'll kind of test

[54:14] run it through your code to see if your

[54:16] code filters out projects that you don't

[54:19] like. you know, if a a a developer or

[54:22] someone or a property owner wants to try

[54:25] to squeeze through something that is

[54:27] really unfavorable, you know, by the the

[54:29] council and the community. Does your

[54:31] code allow you to um to exclude that

[54:35] type of development and then vice versa,

[54:38] positive development? Is are you uh

[54:41] encouraging and providing uh information

[54:44] for them?

[54:46] uh other communities too. We've even

[54:48] done worked on uh pre-approved

[54:51] development

[54:53] um building types and and things like

[54:55] that so that to provide a fast track to

[54:59] uh good development, good and in quotes,

[55:03] you know, good meaning consistent with

[55:04] your local values and and

[55:06] contextsensitive.

[55:08] Um, we included a task in this project

[55:12] talking about the possibility of what

[55:14] if, um, the city wanted to acquire some

[55:17] properties that are strategically

[55:19] located that are isolated from

[55:22] neighborhoods because they only have

[55:24] direct access on Main Street. What if um

[55:28] those properties came on the open market

[55:30] and the city had a policy and a process

[55:32] to purchase those and reszone them if

[55:35] appropriate and partner with a developer

[55:38] to do something really neat um in that

[55:41] location. So I mean those are some

[55:44] specific strategies that you can do to

[55:47] get the right development and the right

[55:50] location you know on specific parcels

[55:53] and uh you can write the code and clear

[55:56] language know what you want and what you

[55:58] don't want. Um, those would be my my

[56:01] suggestions. Um, without obviously

[56:04] having to hire additional staff, which

[56:06] the city like

[56:08] >> hiring additional staff, it was putting

[56:09] it on the applicant just like, you know,

[56:12] if I'm permitting for a house, I have to

[56:14] pay for structural engineer. The city

[56:16] doesn't, you know, and I have to pay

[56:18] fees. So, it would be just another fee

[56:21] that the applicant would take on to be

[56:24] able to build in the city of Alpine. You

[56:26] know, right now what we have is

[56:29] everything you see on our main street

[56:30] met code. And so I'm glad that there's a

[56:33] next step to work on our development

[56:36] code. And you know, if we can get there,

[56:40] you know, through that I I hear what

[56:42] you're saying that's ideal,

[56:44] but um right now we're pretty far from

[56:47] that. And this is a visioning statement

[56:49] to your point. This isn't a statement

[56:51] where we are able to point to a certain

[56:54] statute or require certain standards to

[56:57] be met.

[56:58] >> Yeah, you're going to need to codify

[57:00] this into language that

[57:03] >> that gets the job done. Yeah.

[57:05] >> Okay. Thank you.

[57:06] >> Yeah. Hopefully I answered your

[57:07] question.

[57:08] >> Yeah. And if I could just jump in, I

[57:10] guess, real quick, um, to add on to what

[57:11] Dan said, I think if you've been able to

[57:13] look at the design standards in the in

[57:15] this small area plan, they are very

[57:18] extensive and maybe detailed in a way

[57:23] that you like or don't like, but feel

[57:24] free to as we talk about that in a

[57:26] future meeting to call that out or talk

[57:28] about it. But they are very, very

[57:29] detailed. And so to complement what

[57:32] Dan's saying, eventually if we want to

[57:34] codify that type of detail, we

[57:36] definitely can to help the area grow in

[57:38] that way, but just getting this plan

[57:40] adopted eventually will help with that.

[57:43] So

[57:45] >> mayor, just a comment from kind of a

[57:47] historical perspective. So when the

[57:49] gateway historic guidelines were

[57:51] created, I don't recall the year, it was

[57:53] quite a probably 20 years ago or so. Um,

[57:58] I think the city enlisted the help of an

[58:00] architect named Saurin Simson. He kind

[58:02] of works on projects with a historical

[58:05] flavor. I don't know if he's still

[58:06] around. I haven't heard his name for a

[58:08] long time, but um, so the guidelines

[58:11] were created and then there was a

[58:13] committee. He served on it. Um I I think

[58:17] the only paid member and then there as I

[58:20] recall there was like a planning

[58:21] commission member, a city council

[58:23] member, uh a local businessman, um and

[58:27] maybe a resident some the makeup was

[58:30] something similar to that. And it

[58:32] operated that way for years. And it

[58:34] [clears throat] seems like

[58:36] when a project like a commercial project

[58:39] would come in, they would submit the

[58:41] plan. They'd have to go through that

[58:42] committee first and then it would go to

[58:44] planning commission and city council.

[58:47] I don't recall the year, but for some

[58:49] reason the city went away from that. I

[58:51] don't know if it was a cost issue, if it

[58:53] was hard to get people together. I I

[58:55] don't recall. I wasn't involved with the

[58:57] committee, so I don't know. I just on

[58:59] the outside know kind of how it

[59:02] functioned. they went away from it and

[59:04] put that responsibility in the hands of

[59:06] the planning commission and that's how

[59:08] it's been ever since. Um, so I don't

[59:12] know if that helps anything at all, but

[59:14] that's kind of a little bit of history

[59:17] that goes along with those guidelines.

[59:22] Sarah, did you have

[59:23] >> um two questions and then just a few

[59:25] comments. Um with on page 11 when it

[59:28] talks about, you know, people could come

[59:30] in and put flags or pens on things. I'm just curious if the people attending

[59:35] um if they were a good actual

[59:38] representation of the population of

[59:40] Alpine demographically like you know we

[59:43] talk about the demographics later in the

[59:45] in this document and it talks about like

[59:47] ages, races, that sort of thing. So when

[59:52] I look at, you know, some of the results

[59:54] of what they liked slash didn't like on

[59:57] that same page, I'm just in my head I

[1:00:00] think um well, did we I don't know if

[1:00:03] there was any um statistics taken that

[1:00:06] way. Is it

[1:00:07] >> we always I wasn't involved in all the

[1:00:09] public outreach um for the project, but

[1:00:12] yes, we always strive to have a a

[1:00:14] representative cross-section of the

[1:00:16] communities. Sometimes you can't do that

[1:00:17] and sometimes you need um information or

[1:00:21] gatekeepers that represent certain

[1:00:24] segments of the population, seniors or

[1:00:28] um people with uh special needs and and

[1:00:30] things like that to make sure that their

[1:00:33] input is included. Um I without looking

[1:00:37] at it, there might be in the um

[1:00:39] appendices um some documentation of that

[1:00:42] public engagement process. And I'm not I

[1:00:45] don't recall if they collected

[1:00:47] demographic information on them. Um but

[1:00:51] we did [clears throat]

[1:00:52] the open houses that were held as you um

[1:00:55] recall were well attended. We had a good

[1:00:57] number of people. Um I helped lead a uh

[1:01:01] a focus group of of neighbors for for

[1:01:04] one of the gateways. And um I think

[1:01:08] generally in in my experience with doing

[1:01:10] these types of projects um I feel like

[1:01:13] we've done a good job when when you do

[1:01:17] additional public outreach and

[1:01:19] additional types of public outreach and

[1:01:22] you stop getting new comments. you just

[1:01:26] you kind of get the same not the same

[1:01:28] comments, but they start falling into

[1:01:30] the categories

[1:01:32] of commonalities that we all share and

[1:01:36] there's not that many outliers. And so

[1:01:38] even if we don't have uh that fully

[1:01:40] documented as part of the the process, I feel pretty pretty confident that we

[1:01:46] identified what those key commonalities

[1:01:48] are and we don't have a lot of outliers.

[1:01:52] >> I appreciate that explanation. I was

[1:01:54] just more out of curiosity just kind of

[1:01:56] trying to understand that. My other

[1:01:57] question had to do with nature play but

[1:02:00] I did look that up so I don't need to

[1:02:02] ask that question. I just found it

[1:02:03] really interesting that that one got a

[1:02:06] lot of marks and then in the document

[1:02:08] itself that prioritize it says that we

[1:02:10] should prioritize trails and open space

[1:02:13] and an active outdoor lifestyle. And I I

[1:02:16] love what Andrew said about, you know,

[1:02:18] horses and also we don't just have

[1:02:21] mountain bikers here in Alpine that

[1:02:23] utilize the trails, but maybe we should

[1:02:25] look into having designated equestrian

[1:02:28] days on our trails or I don't know,

[1:02:32] >> don't forget about runners,

[1:02:33] >> something like [laughter] that.

[1:02:35] >> Just something that kind of matches a

[1:02:37] little bit more our diverse demographic.

[1:02:40] So, I just wanted to throw that out

[1:02:41] there as an idea. And I love how Jessica

[1:02:44] always says or sorry, Councilwoman

[1:02:46] Smeuan and Council Member um Young I

[1:02:50] trying to respect the title um say that

[1:02:52] we don't have a a rec center in Alpine

[1:02:55] and but our rec center is outdoors. So,

[1:02:58] just I love that this kind of

[1:03:00] reemphasizes that push to make sure that

[1:03:02] we have, you know, this community where

[1:03:06] we have walking trails, we have biking

[1:03:08] trails, we have equestrian trails, we

[1:03:10] have ways for us to build community and

[1:03:13] a healthy lifestyle. So, I just love

[1:03:16] that that reiterizes that. And that's

[1:03:18] all,

[1:03:20] >> Chrissy.

[1:03:21] >> Thank you. Um, I just thanks for letting

[1:03:23] my voice rest, you guys. Um, I just want

[1:03:26] to make sure we're just talking about

[1:03:28] the vision, right? Because I have more

[1:03:30] comments about the second part. Okay,

[1:03:32] these will be brief.

[1:03:34] Um, I really appreciated like

[1:03:37] summarizing because it was very much an

[1:03:40] interactive process and so sometimes

[1:03:42] like when we come to council meeting I

[1:03:44] love reading the minutes because like oh

[1:03:45] that's what really happened because I'm

[1:03:47] like relating to different things and so

[1:03:49] this document really brought together a

[1:03:51] lot of community input and um uh Dan

[1:03:55] helped facilitate the selection

[1:03:57] committee and one two of the things that

[1:03:59] stood out to this particular group that

[1:04:00] put this together was that they are all

[1:04:03] Every single staff member is trained on

[1:04:05] cherettes and that's um a specific way

[1:04:08] to gather information by providing

[1:04:10] specific feedback like the flags and

[1:04:13] other things. Um like so there's a

[1:04:16] picture in here. You can kind of see

[1:04:18] everyone together on page four if you

[1:04:20] want to bring up that picture. Like

[1:04:22] that's that's our sculpture garden guy.

[1:04:24] There's an artist who lives here. Here's

[1:04:26] artist um artist. She's the committee

[1:04:28] chair of our sculpture garden. So yeah,

[1:04:31] there was a little heaviness towards the

[1:04:33] historic beautifification of Alpine in

[1:04:35] this particular sharet. Whereas if you

[1:04:37] went to another table, it was the

[1:04:40] commercial builders that were there. And

[1:04:42] there was another one talking about

[1:04:43] residential building. So everything

[1:04:46] table sort of had a focus to give you

[1:04:48] some context there. Um and oh there's

[1:04:51] Jen too, Jen Watssworth and she's all

[1:04:54] about the library. So again, more how to

[1:04:56] use our civic space was sort of this

[1:04:59] specific table, but this is just the

[1:05:01] picture they put in here, whereas

[1:05:03] there's like there was tables going all

[1:05:05] around speaking about very specific

[1:05:07] things where people had specific

[1:05:09] interests. So looking at the timeline, I

[1:05:11] did think I had to get out my real good

[1:05:14] glasses. We actually started this in

[1:05:16] August of 2024. So if we can wrap this

[1:05:19] up, let's get going, you know, like it's

[1:05:21] been a long time. And that the date on

[1:05:24] the front of this document is November

[1:05:25] 2025. So I mean we we really got to like

[1:05:28] um wrap it up so we can get to the

[1:05:31] second part which is the implementation

[1:05:33] which is critical. I did um so I did

[1:05:36] appreciate this part of the plan. I did

[1:05:38] also want to talk about the feedback

[1:05:40] loop. Um if you will will you pull up

[1:05:42] page eight?

[1:05:44] Madame Heidi or Madam Smith. Thank you.

[1:05:48] All right. Um

[1:05:51] this was just a really good exercise in

[1:05:53] us talking about what are some options

[1:05:55] for some undeveloped space. Right at the

[1:05:58] beginning the consultants recognize that

[1:06:00] in order to do something different we

[1:06:02] have to sort of have a conglomeration of

[1:06:04] space otherwise it's just hodge podge of

[1:06:07] this and that and so they highlighted a

[1:06:09] couple areas. Some of it is south of the

[1:06:11] roundabout. We have what we started to

[1:06:14] call the field so that we would remove

[1:06:16] ownership [clears throat] and all that

[1:06:17] kind of stuff away from it. We just

[1:06:18] called it the field, make it neutral.

[1:06:20] And then we thought about, okay, do we

[1:06:22] want more commercial business? Do we

[1:06:23] want more just leave it as it is? Do we

[1:06:26] want to do something special in this one

[1:06:28] space? And you can see the little jars

[1:06:30] here, what the feedback was. And so this

[1:06:33] was just sort of an illustration of how

[1:06:36] the committee would work to say what's

[1:06:39] possible. And like Ryan used to always

[1:06:40] say, um, [clears throat]

[1:06:43] what do we want to be when we grow up?

[1:06:44] So if this land sells and is developed,

[1:06:47] what do we want it to be? do we want it

[1:06:48] to be 100% residential? And so it was a

[1:06:51] interactive process where they didn't

[1:06:54] come and say this is the best use. You

[1:06:56] know, it's, you know, this is we're the

[1:06:58] experts. That was not the process at

[1:07:00] all. It was very interactive with our

[1:07:02] public. And so I appreciate your

[1:07:04] comments um having run for office and

[1:07:06] being out among the people that we

[1:07:08] haven't changed much in two years. We

[1:07:09] still have the same priorities as we did

[1:07:11] in you know when we were doing this in

[1:07:13] um the summer of 2024. Um let's

[1:07:17] [clears throat] see what other thing did

[1:07:18] I want to say about this um part. Um

[1:07:24] I think that's it.

[1:07:26] >> Okay.

[1:07:26] >> Thank you. [clears throat]

[1:07:28] >> Let's move on to the next section which

[1:07:30] is

[1:07:33] » Yeah. Are we at the

[1:07:34] >> Well, they're moving on. Uh what you let

[1:07:37] me know when to start, but I was just

[1:07:38] going to ask them a couple questions or

[1:07:40] do you want me to wait

[1:07:40] >> regarding what?

[1:07:42] >> It's half It's in the middle of vision

[1:07:43] in the next section. It's one comment

[1:07:45] and one question, but it will it will it

[1:07:47] will springboard us into the next

[1:07:49] section. The one comment is can we uh or

[1:07:52] can you I I come from an industry where

[1:07:55] we have to create a movie or a video

[1:07:58] game or a world. You're kind of doing

[1:08:00] the same thing but in real life. And

[1:08:03] what people will say like we can we do

[1:08:06] this, can we add this? Couldn't it look

[1:08:07] like this? And they'll talk and then at

[1:08:09] some point they make what's called a

[1:08:11] target piece. It's usually an image and

[1:08:13] it targets what we want it to look like.

[1:08:15] I know you have uh several good

[1:08:17] examples. Could we try to provide some

[1:08:19] of those or get artists to work on what

[1:08:22] the main street vision target piece

[1:08:24] would be and then people can react to it

[1:08:26] and they usually react to it negatively

[1:08:29] and say, "No, no, that's not what I'm

[1:08:31] thinking." Or they react to, "Yes,

[1:08:33] that's what I'm thinking. Could we maybe

[1:08:35] include some target pieces?"

[1:08:37] >> Andrew, they did do that during the open

[1:08:39] houses. They had target p what you call

[1:08:41] target pieces on what the buildings

[1:08:43] would look like, what the structures

[1:08:44] would look like, whether it was going to

[1:08:46] be um mixeduse, whether it was going to

[1:08:48] be residential and what those buildings

[1:08:50] would look like. And then people came in

[1:08:52] again with these stickers. So that was

[1:08:54] part of the process.

[1:08:56] >> Oh, okay. Is this the same photos that

[1:08:58] are in here? The same

[1:08:59] >> No, no. A lot of the

[1:09:00] >> Well, a lot of the there was way more

[1:09:03] presented and then

[1:09:05] >> they curated what they presented in

[1:09:06] here.

[1:09:07] >> Okay. I like these. What I mean is it's

[1:09:09] more like when you're it's more like an

[1:09:10] architectural rendering of a building,

[1:09:12] but it's of a street and it anyways.

[1:09:15] Take it or leave it. That's what we do.

[1:09:16] And

[1:09:17] >> then you get Mario, but [laughter]

[1:09:19] >> this is what they did do.

[1:09:21] >> Okay. Okay. Okay. If you have those, uh,

[1:09:23] forward them my way. I'd love to look at

[1:09:24] them. Um, and and

[1:09:26] >> they're in here. [clears throat]

[1:09:28] >> I'm sorry.

[1:09:29] >> Yeah. I think I think Dan is a local. We

[1:09:32] hired consultants from another place. So

[1:09:34] he he he's our he's our bridge but he's

[1:09:37] not the creator.

[1:09:38] >> Okay. Well that's that was just the idea

[1:09:40] question.

[1:09:41] >> The next section um

[1:09:42] >> okay for the next section

[1:09:44] >> so we the okay so we talked about the

[1:09:47] alpine corridors. Um let's discuss what

[1:09:50] so let's put back the map maybe was it

[1:09:53] page 35 is that it

[1:09:57] >> 10

[1:10:00] page 23

[1:10:02] >> I think it's the page after that where

[1:10:03] we would start

[1:10:04] >> is the beginning

[1:10:06] >> well that was just one example though

[1:10:08] that wasn't all the corridor

[1:10:10] >> it goes from the vision to the process

[1:10:14] of what they did which Chrissy really

[1:10:16] did a wonderful job and then After that,

[1:10:18] it starts going into Alpine Highway.

[1:10:20] >> Yes. And it focuses on the Alpine City

[1:10:22] Gateway Corridors

[1:10:24] >> and it like focuses just on like Alpine

[1:10:26] Highway main street and then it branches

[1:10:28] into the west and the east corridors.

[1:10:31] >> I think the best page actually to see

[1:10:32] all the corridors where we ended up is

[1:10:34] 28.

[1:10:35] >> Yeah, that's

[1:10:37] >> because like I said those three going

[1:10:39] across was just different versions

[1:10:41] >> and once we got the feedback we settled

[1:10:43] on option

[1:10:44] >> so let's go back up to 28. No, you dig.

[1:10:47] >> Is this the

[1:10:48] >> No, go up to page 28. It's the one page

[1:10:51] 28.

[1:10:52] >> Yeah, that's

[1:10:54] >> Is this the page? The page is different

[1:10:56] on the side than on the actual

[1:10:57] >> That's what I'm getting confused. Okay.

[1:11:07] » I was looking at the page number of the

[1:11:08] packet. Not not the PDF, but the

[1:11:12] >> printed document, not the PDF.

[1:11:14] >> Okay. So, the 28

[1:11:17] Yes.

[1:11:17] >> But [laughter]

[1:11:18] >> so Oh, no. Go back.

[1:11:19] >> You did good.

[1:11:20] >> No, but Carla, we didn't settle on any

[1:11:22] of those three.

[1:11:23] >> Oh, I know. I'm So,

[1:11:25] >> Andrew doesn't have a history of

[1:11:26] >> Oh, okay.

[1:11:27] >> Did you read the whole packet?

[1:11:29] >> Yeah.

[1:11:29] >> Oh, okay. So, then we can go over this

[1:11:31] then we don't have to go over it.

[1:11:32] >> Yeah, we can go over all of it or

[1:11:33] whatever part. I love it all.

[1:11:35] >> It sounds like you didn't

[1:11:36] >> Yeah. I thought we had a plan to to be

[1:11:39] prepared to discuss specific sections.

[1:11:40] >> Me, too.

[1:11:41] >> Are we going past that today?

[1:11:42] >> No, no, no. I thought she was trying to

[1:11:45] explain.

[1:11:45] >> Were you under the understanding we were

[1:11:46] doing vision and what other parts?

[1:11:48] >> So we did the vision or so we're doing

[1:11:49] the vision and then we're going to go to

[1:11:51] the next section page 13.

[1:11:53] >> Mayor, do you want us on the vision

[1:11:55] section to give concrete

[1:11:57] >> suggestions, motions or anything for

[1:11:59] changes, improvements, or is that later?

[1:12:01] >> I think you already did that, right?

[1:12:03] >> We didn't make any motions

[1:12:04] >> because

[1:12:05] >> Well, there's no motions going on right

[1:12:06] now, but just suggestions and

[1:12:08] discussions on what could be added. So

[1:12:10] Andrew said his

[1:12:12] >> um I know you made some comment there

[1:12:14] were no additional um

[1:12:16] >> so yeah we're taking

[1:12:17] >> mine were mine were just

[1:12:18] >> Do you have additional notes on it

[1:12:20] >> for the other sections? Yeah

[1:12:21] >> on the vision.

[1:12:22] >> No no no

[1:12:22] >> no for the vision I think we wrapped up

[1:12:24] and I like it just the understanding I

[1:12:26] have mayor and everyone on the council

[1:12:28] is that they're going to take what we're

[1:12:31] talking about now and then do a rewrite.

[1:12:34] >> So it's going to be Kaden that will be

[1:12:36] doing it.

[1:12:36] >> Oh you will? Okay with the help of the

[1:12:38] consultant. Yes, the consultants will

[1:12:40] >> the consultants were done.

[1:12:41] >> No, I think they have three revisions.

[1:12:42] >> They have one more.

[1:12:43] >> The consultants took the planning

[1:12:45] commission comments and now they're

[1:12:46] awaiting your decisions on what

[1:12:48] >> That's right. No, you're right. So, yes,

[1:12:49] that's

[1:12:50] >> So, we're we're kind of in my

[1:12:51] understanding pitching [clears throat]

[1:12:52] them the suggestions we have as best as

[1:12:55] we can for them to put in that final

[1:12:56] revision. Is that what everyone

[1:12:57] understands?

[1:12:58] >> I have very specific things that I

[1:13:00] already submitted, but like you said,

[1:13:02] he's there. So, I can put those back

[1:13:03] into a document.

[1:13:05] >> Okay. So, we've already gone for we've

[1:13:08] already gone over the vision for Alpine

[1:13:10] City's gateway corridors. We've kind of

[1:13:12] gone through the project process,

[1:13:14] purpose of the plan.

[1:13:15] >> Let's go on to Alpine City Gateway

[1:13:18] Corridors today, which is page 13.

[1:13:20] >> Okay. Um

[1:13:23] Dan or Kaden, did you guys have anything

[1:13:25] that you wanted to say about this area

[1:13:27] specifically or should we allow council

[1:13:30] to um

[1:13:32] >> this is just existing conditions and so

[1:13:34] unless there's some inaccuracy of

[1:13:37] representing current conditions, there's

[1:13:40] probably not a lot to discuss here.

[1:13:41] >> It was helpful to see because we

[1:13:43] sometimes have our own ideas of what the

[1:13:45] existing conditions were. This was nice

[1:13:46] data.

[1:13:48] >> Is that helpful?

[1:13:49] >> Yeah. Know if you didn't know. Yeah,

[1:13:50] that would be good.

[1:13:51] >> Well, I didn't know we were

[1:13:51] >> Did you um did you want to make comments

[1:13:53] on this section or are you guys

[1:13:55] >> I had a just two small points.

[1:13:57] >> Okay. So, Andrew, go ahead. Let's start

[1:13:58] with you. And

[1:13:59] >> my question might funnel into this. It

[1:14:01] follows the page limit, but basically,

[1:14:02] and you were talking about it, land

[1:14:04] acquisition, which this goes into, and

[1:14:06] it goes into these other parts. My

[1:14:08] question was, and it's for the council

[1:14:10] as well, as we create this, I feel like

[1:14:13] we have kind of a fork in the road of

[1:14:14] how we use this, and I wanted to hear

[1:14:17] how staff and anyone else thinks we're

[1:14:19] supposed to use this. So, I guess like

[1:14:21] what role do we have in as we make this

[1:14:24] plan to proactively work with developers

[1:14:27] to achieve this vision and plan? Um, or will we just reference this? So, so

[1:14:33] will we proactively go after developers

[1:14:35] and go after land acquisition and try to

[1:14:38] fulfill this vision and what's in this

[1:14:40] or will it be when developers come will

[1:14:43] we just check out what they are doing

[1:14:46] and say does this fit in our vision and

[1:14:49] basically weigh it out based off of the

[1:14:52] vision.

[1:14:53] >> I don't think we're quite there yet.

[1:14:54] We're just still on existing conditions.

[1:14:56] We're not on implementation.

[1:14:58] >> Okay, that that came from page nine but

[1:15:00] anyways. Okay, save that question. I

[1:15:03] think it will help us as like how does

[1:15:05] this tool of this great plan you've

[1:15:07] created work in our implementation to

[1:15:10] carry it out because it's going to be

[1:15:11] with private land owners and it's going

[1:15:13] to be with people that own the land and

[1:15:16] come to us and want to do something. Do

[1:15:17] we check this? So, you get the question.

[1:15:19] Okay. Um, from page 13 to what? Because

[1:15:22] I have it by page number and I just have

[1:15:24] a couple questions so I don't want to go

[1:15:25] out of line like I just did.

[1:15:28] >> Page 13 to 22. 24. Where is that?

[1:15:31] >> Okay. About to 24 to 13. 13.

[1:15:34] >> I might be out of order.

[1:15:35] >> 23 is the start of the Alpine City Main

[1:15:38] Street Court. That's the next.

[1:15:39] >> Sorry, I have it flipped. Yeah. 13 to

[1:15:41] 22.

[1:15:42] >> Okay. Uh, let me just go. Um

[1:15:46] [snorts] well right surrounding this you

[1:15:48] talk a lot about

[1:15:50] >> uh right surrounding this he talks a lot

[1:15:52] about the taxes that we are missing the

[1:15:56] uh large amount of taxing opportunity

[1:15:59] that we are missing from

[1:16:01] >> the leakage study

[1:16:02] >> the leakage yes it's it's right before

[1:16:03] in in these pages so cut me off if you

[1:16:06] don't want me to talk about whatever

[1:16:08] section

[1:16:08] >> can't remember which section that was

[1:16:10] >> it's just here

[1:16:11] >> I

[1:16:13] >> appreciated did that deep research and

[1:16:16] those numbers are very um

[1:16:20] uh alluring

[1:16:23] uh and uh I just wanted to bring up that

[1:16:27] um it is a ve this is the strategy that

[1:16:29] most cities are are doing right now. We

[1:16:32] were just with Lynden and Eagle Mountain

[1:16:34] and everyone and I loved talking to them

[1:16:35] and finding out how they're doing their

[1:16:37] cities. So in this regard, I just wanted

[1:16:40] to put one slight uh caution and that is

[1:16:44] that um yes, this is a lot of money that

[1:16:48] we can gain. I mean approximately

[1:16:50] 137,000

[1:16:52] square feet of retail space we have

[1:16:54] available to put malls and whatever else

[1:16:57] under the sun we can think of. Um I just

[1:17:00] wanted to add at this portion a caution

[1:17:02] that we might lose the thing that makes

[1:17:04] this so valuable. So to do it in a

[1:17:06] balanced way. So I don't know if there's

[1:17:08] a word we can put in this section while

[1:17:10] the uh people are going through this

[1:17:12] who's going to be rewriting this to just

[1:17:15] and I know you've put it in a lot of

[1:17:16] places but this really stands out. These

[1:17:18] pages of retail analysis really stand

[1:17:21] out and they're very like I mean 20 what

[1:17:25] how many millions of dollars do you say

[1:17:26] we are missing out on? like

[1:17:30] >> tons like like a massive amount annual

[1:17:34] annually $95 million and so just that is

[1:17:37] so alluring every every I was talking to

[1:17:40] lint well I won't use cities I was

[1:17:42] talking to a lot of cities that have

[1:17:43] these type of monies I would just

[1:17:45] encourage if we in Alpine

[1:17:48] what I consider representing the people

[1:17:50] they do not value money and retail as

[1:17:53] much as they value their rural open

[1:17:55] space quiet lifestyle good place to

[1:17:58] retire, their religion, those types of

[1:18:00] things. So just in when when this is

[1:18:02] broadcast, the way I looked at it is

[1:18:04] this is wonderful. This is great news

[1:18:06] for our future. Whatever we can do to

[1:18:08] balance it would be I think what would

[1:18:10] hit the nail on the head for the

[1:18:11] residents here. Um, one more thing on

[1:18:14] this section. Uh, and I love this. You bring up the gateway identity and

[1:18:19] you actually use the word identity. I

[1:18:20] thought I was crazy for using that word.

[1:18:23] You guys use it all over this and I just

[1:18:25] fell in love with this and you guys for

[1:18:27] doing it. Um, it says each entrance

[1:18:30] corridor. Uh, this is page if you want

[1:18:33] to go to it. Page 24 and 25. Oh, such a

[1:18:36] good page.

[1:18:37] >> Is that beyond? Is that beyond?

[1:18:38] >> Yeah, that's beyond.

[1:18:39] >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I will save. Okay.

[1:18:42] Let me So So

[1:18:43] >> that comment for next

[1:18:44] >> I apologize. So we are just talking

[1:18:46] about 13 to 21. Is that right? Then I'm

[1:18:47] done. I'm only talking about the retail

[1:18:49] thing. The takeway.

[1:18:50] >> I do have a question. So you got $95

[1:18:53] million you're saying that you know

[1:18:55] people are spending outside of the city.

[1:18:56] Do we have any idea what percentage of

[1:18:59] that is actually being captured online

[1:19:01] and then also what that translates to as

[1:19:04] far as in you know sales tax revenue

[1:19:09] because 95 million sounds like a lot but

[1:19:11] I'm curious to see you know how much in

[1:19:13] sales tax revenue are we actually

[1:19:14] missing out on that isn't being captured

[1:19:17] I know through online sales that I know

[1:19:18] we're able to capture. So, I'm just kind

[1:19:21] of curious on that and see what that

[1:19:22] data looks like because yes, you look at

[1:19:24] it 95 million that sounds like a ton,

[1:19:26] but I'd like to see kind of a little bit

[1:19:28] more information on that because really,

[1:19:31] you know, yes, if we could have that

[1:19:33] close, but realistically, are we going

[1:19:35] to have car dealerships in Alpine? No.

[1:19:37] You know, we don't have freeway space.

[1:19:39] Are we going to have big box? Are we

[1:19:41] going to have a Home Depot? I don't

[1:19:42] think we want a Home Depot or Walmart. I

[1:19:44] don't think they want Alpine either. It

[1:19:46] doesn't make sense. So, a lot of this

[1:19:48] money, it's like it's a huge amount, but

[1:19:50] I think what we can do is concentrate on

[1:19:54] what um Andrew said is what makes sense

[1:19:56] for our city. And I definitely do think

[1:19:59] there's opportunities to capture

[1:20:02] >> um you know, I think people have been

[1:20:04] asking for more food choices, more, you

[1:20:08] know, maybe boutiques to make it more

[1:20:10] convenient. It just I think you have to

[1:20:12] be smart on what will work for our

[1:20:14] community. Um, obviously, you know, we

[1:20:17] have spenders here. You know, there's

[1:20:19] [clears throat] $95 million that are

[1:20:21] being spent outside, but I am curious

[1:20:23] how much of that we're able to capture

[1:20:25] through online.

[1:20:26] >> Um, hello,

[1:20:26] >> Mayor Merrill, if I may. Um, in appendix

[1:20:29] A, it talks about potential sales tax

[1:20:31] revenue, and it talks about like ideally

[1:20:34] we could capture between 60 and 80%

[1:20:37] which would likely bring the city

[1:20:38] between 635,000.

[1:20:40] >> That was a number I was looking for.

[1:20:43] >> Yeah.

[1:20:44] If it's if it's not in there, pardon me

[1:20:46] for interrupting if I have, but uh we

[1:20:49] could Kaden, we could make a note to the

[1:20:51] consultant to clarify that question

[1:20:53] regarding uh online sales. And then just

[1:20:57] one small comment. I wouldn't look at

[1:20:59] those numbers and think of that as

[1:21:01] that's that's more of a book end of

[1:21:03] what's possible. It doesn't say it

[1:21:05] doesn't mean to say that that's

[1:21:06] appropriate or that you want it per se,

[1:21:09] but that's what's on the table

[1:21:11] potentially out there. And then the

[1:21:14] community has to decide which pieces of

[1:21:17] that are appropriate for our community

[1:21:19] and how much of that is appropriate for

[1:21:21] our community. Um, and that's that's the

[1:21:24] real question. Not

[1:21:26] >> some some cities that's their that's all they do is pursue tax

[1:21:32] u sales tax. I don't think that's

[1:21:34] necessarily the goal of Alpine. So you

[1:21:36] just need to define what that means to

[1:21:38] you. Do you need us to define that clear

[1:21:40] so that in this retail capture section

[1:21:43] it can guide people in the coming

[1:21:46] decades of how we see the retail capture

[1:21:49] working best?

[1:21:50] >> I think that's something that we can

[1:21:52] leave open. I mean we have our city

[1:21:54] ordinances that allow certain retail and

[1:21:56] some things that are not allowable. Um I

[1:22:00] think our city will change. I think you

[1:22:03] know you have general guidelines and

[1:22:04] then as Dan mentioned that you know

[1:22:06] they're saying there's this much that is

[1:22:08] happening that's what's on the table

[1:22:10] then from that table you need to pick

[1:22:12] and choose what makes sense for your

[1:22:14] community what makes sense now might not

[1:22:16] make sense 20 years down the line or 10

[1:22:19] how often are we supposed to be updating

[1:22:21] this

[1:22:23] >> you know

[1:22:23] >> it's like a general plan sometimes they

[1:22:26] >> like

[1:22:26] >> they last for decades sometimes

[1:22:28] >> I I heard it was supposed to be like 5

[1:22:30] to 10 years you're supposed to be

[1:22:31] upgrading Yeah, it really it really

[1:22:33] depends on the rate of growth, the rate

[1:22:35] of change within your if there's not a

[1:22:37] lot changing.

[1:22:38] >> I was going to say where the delta is

[1:22:39] really low here at Alpine. Maybe not.

[1:22:41] >> I I would say it's pretty enduring and I

[1:22:44] mean relatively speaking.

[1:22:46] >> If you guys read the blue takeaways, I

[1:22:48] feel like they summarized everything

[1:22:50] you've just been saying in professional

[1:22:52] language. So, I I really appreciate like

[1:22:55] I feel like they nailed it specifically

[1:22:58] um when they talk about quant quality

[1:23:01] over quantity. I mean, that's what we're

[1:23:03] talking about. We don't want lowquality

[1:23:07] product or lowquality retail. Want high

[1:23:10] quality. So, quality over quantity.

[1:23:13] >> Maybe that's just what can be focused on

[1:23:15] in this section.

[1:23:16] >> Well, I I think it's here. I just don't

[1:23:17] know how maybe like that's a it's a

[1:23:19] presentation thing. Maybe that's in this

[1:23:21] as you rewrite it. The title can be yes,

[1:23:23] we love

[1:23:24] >> Hold on, I wasn't done.

[1:23:25] >> Oh, sorry.

[1:23:26] >> Okay, thank you. [laughter] Um, also the

[1:23:28] last paragraph talks about um the

[1:23:30] steadily growing community with

[1:23:32] substantial unmet retail demand.

[1:23:34] Therefore, it should goes on emphasize

[1:23:37] quality, identity, walkability, and

[1:23:39] experiences rather than rapid density or

[1:23:42] large-scale expansion. Now, they're

[1:23:43] talking specifically about commercial

[1:23:45] development. And I think as we've seen,

[1:23:48] we have a very de in demand experiential

[1:23:51] um uh retail

[1:23:54] with the Burgess Orchards. And I always

[1:23:57] say to myself, if somebody were putting

[1:23:59] peaches on top of ice cream in a strip

[1:24:00] mall,

[1:24:02] that thing would fail in six months. But

[1:24:04] if you put it right by an orchard and a

[1:24:07] lot of people come to visit and they

[1:24:09] love looking out over the field and just

[1:24:11] feeling like these are our roots and

[1:24:13] we're losing that feeling out in the

[1:24:15] county like if you went to our Utah

[1:24:17] League of City and towns they said in

[1:24:19] the future Utah County is going to look

[1:24:21] like Salt Lake County. I said oh

[1:24:23] like that was like a stab to the heart

[1:24:26] because when you're in Salt Lake County

[1:24:27] you feel like the commercialism of it.

[1:24:30] So that's what they like is an

[1:24:32] experiential like reason to be there.

[1:24:35] And also the poppies, right? That's

[1:24:37] another big hit around here. If you put

[1:24:39] that poppy in a pot and like sold it in

[1:24:42] the flower nursery in a strip mall, that

[1:24:46] wouldn't be very attractive either. So

[1:24:48] they're they're coming for the the out

[1:24:50] the retail element has to somehow

[1:24:53] include the very reason people move

[1:24:55] here, which we've already heard from, so

[1:24:56] I won't repeat that. Running out of

[1:24:58] voice. Okay. Okay. But I do think this

[1:25:00] blue section, it's really small print

[1:25:03] and like maybe we could do like some

[1:25:04] bold bold like big point ideas because I

[1:25:08] feel like it summarized everything we've

[1:25:09] just been talking about in the

[1:25:11] professional language of the people we

[1:25:13] hired to do this plan.

[1:25:15] >> Thank you.

[1:25:16] >> I'm so not offended that we went out of

[1:25:18] order because you [laughter] you've

[1:25:20] covered everything that I was thinking

[1:25:21] of. You very well stated, Andrew, and the mayor. Thank you so much for

[1:25:25] that. Um I think this is a little bit

[1:25:27] misleading this leakage because we

[1:25:29] really don't have the space. We're for

[1:25:32] business commercial. We really don't

[1:25:33] have the desire as we found in the

[1:25:34] public meetings to expand the business

[1:25:37] commercial and we're a culde-sac

[1:25:38] community. People are not going to come

[1:25:40] to Alpine unless it's something specific

[1:25:42] and maybe the ice cream is one example.

[1:25:44] But um just having that balance of what

[1:25:48] the residents really want, understanding

[1:25:51] our limitations on available land, and

[1:25:55] we just basically have this main street

[1:25:57] section that we have the potential. We

[1:25:59] heard during the planning commission

[1:26:00] hearings, some of the owners of these

[1:26:04] um homes on the west side of Al on Main

[1:26:07] Street primarily said they're ready.

[1:26:09] to do something. and

[1:26:11] they're looking forward to this coming

[1:26:13] and they have some suggestions on

[1:26:15] setback changes

[1:26:17] being able to have be a little closer so

[1:26:18] they have parking in the back which I

[1:26:20] think is a great idea so we're not

[1:26:21] having more traffic and more parking on

[1:26:23] Main Street where we want to have more

[1:26:25] of that walkability. So uh yeah that is

[1:26:28] that's kind of the reality of what

[1:26:30] Alpine is when you consider the section.

[1:26:33] Yeah, my takeaways on this section also

[1:26:36] wasn't that we were going to

[1:26:38] fill 137 square feet or 137,000. I think

[1:26:42] it was just is there something we could

[1:26:45] capture from this to show us the the

[1:26:48] potential that's there. I looked at it

[1:26:50] from a business owner side and and

[1:26:52] really this is for them to to kind of

[1:26:56] dismiss that narrative that we've heard

[1:26:58] so long, which is business can't survive

[1:27:00] in Alpine. Well, it can if it's the

[1:27:02] right business. And so that's what this

[1:27:04] information is telling us. And then it's

[1:27:07] up to us to determine what is the right

[1:27:09] business for Alpine. So I agree. It's

[1:27:11] what the appetite is for our residents.

[1:27:14] What meets the needs here. You know, a

[1:27:16] little we keep hearing a little

[1:27:17] breakfast place. We'd like to be able to

[1:27:20] take the grandkids to breakfast or have

[1:27:22] a power meeting. And so there are some

[1:27:24] things and and then they go into where

[1:27:26] could it work. We have Main Street, you

[1:27:28] know, we have the field, which we'll

[1:27:30] talk about later, but you know, the

[1:27:32] residents like the idea of keeping the

[1:27:34] traffic that side of the roundabout. You

[1:27:37] know, maybe we could do a little

[1:27:38] business if it didn't come in and create

[1:27:41] more traffic. So, those are later

[1:27:43] conversations, but it it is possible. It

[1:27:47] is possible.

[1:27:49] Um, I like the thought of experiential

[1:27:52] retail like Councilwoman Henman

[1:27:54] suggested and also Councilwoman Smeuan.

[1:27:57] Um, I think that is something that I had

[1:27:59] never thought of that this brings up and

[1:28:01] so I appreciate that perspective.

[1:28:03] [clears throat] I also um when looking

[1:28:05] under the land use map under

[1:28:07] neighborhood living and preserved

[1:28:08] natural features, both of those

[1:28:09] paragraphs um mention

[1:28:13] um the community's layout emphasizing

[1:28:15] privacy, scenic views, and overall

[1:28:17] suburban rural fill. and then preserve

[1:28:19] natural features. It also talks about

[1:28:21] protecting um view corridors, which when

[1:28:24] we're making notes about how we can have

[1:28:26] development codes that support this

[1:28:28] vision document, I know we've had an

[1:28:30] attempt at some sort of view ordinance,

[1:28:32] but I think that we should revisit that

[1:28:34] because I think that definitely

[1:28:36] complements,

[1:28:37] you know, Alpine and the vision of

[1:28:39] Alpine. And then I just loved the

[1:28:41] summary that was at the bottom of that

[1:28:42] under emerging trends. This is on page

[1:28:45] 16 says, "Land use and alpine goes far

[1:28:48] beyond regulatory zoning. It's about how

[1:28:50] land supports community life, rural

[1:28:52] heritage, outdoor living, lowdensity

[1:28:54] commerce, and environmental stewardship.

[1:28:56] All working together to define what what

[1:28:58] makes Alpine unique and I just I feel

[1:29:01] like that's a little bit of a I start

[1:29:04] that because helps provide some a

[1:29:07] vision." So,

[1:29:08] >> what page was that?

[1:29:09] >> That was page 16.

[1:29:11] >> Anyways, those are my my

[1:29:13] that part.

[1:29:14] >> Did we bold that?

[1:29:16] >> Yeah, that would be that would be great

[1:29:17] if

[1:29:18] >> Put it at the top.

[1:29:19] >> We're talking about layout.

[1:29:20] >> Yeah, I have that

[1:29:21] >> in my document.

[1:29:22] >> I have it.

[1:29:23] in a highlighted squared

[1:29:26] starred.

[1:29:26] >> Yes, the summary.

[1:29:28] >> I'm like, it needs a huge heading and

[1:29:30] like you they're saying,

[1:29:31] >> yeah,

[1:29:32] >> I love that.

[1:29:32] >> Mhm. No, this is really so well done.

[1:29:35] >> Okay, let's move on.

[1:29:36] >> I wasn't I was just commenting about

[1:29:37] your comments. There's three things I

[1:29:39] want to call attention to.

[1:29:40] >> Got more.

[1:29:40] >> It'll be short.

[1:29:41] >> Wait, didn't you already make your

[1:29:42] comment? No, I was reflecting on your

[1:29:44] comments.

[1:29:45] >> Oh, yeah. That's not appreciated. Let's

[1:29:47] wait next time. Okay. Okay. Go ahead.

[1:29:50] >> I'll be I'll my voice won't hold up. So,

[1:29:52] um the first thing I thought really

[1:29:55] stood out was on page 14. Madam Madam

[1:29:58] Smith

[1:30:00] or [snorts] um

[1:30:02] when we look at our land use, okay,

[1:30:07] Councilman Young likes to say that land

[1:30:09] use will outlive us all. And we have

[1:30:11] very very little um could currently used

[1:30:15] towards for business commercial and um

[1:30:19] we're going to do a deeper dive into

[1:30:21] revenue as a city and this is one thing

[1:30:23] we need to understand is that um you

[1:30:26] talk you talk to other cities about

[1:30:27] bringing sales tax in. But if land uh

[1:30:31] land use brings in commercial business

[1:30:34] and they first of all it's assessed at a

[1:30:36] higher value and second of all they

[1:30:37] don't get the 40%

[1:30:39] >> um primary residential um exemption and

[1:30:43] so the less commercial we have the more

[1:30:47] burden will fall to our residents

[1:30:49] >> and that is just a trade-off. It's not a

[1:30:51] bad thing, but it's something we just

[1:30:53] need to acknowledge because we've heard

[1:30:55] from our residents more than once that

[1:30:57] they would don't really want, you know,

[1:30:58] to live in a busy place. So, there's

[1:31:01] just a balance we have to create or an

[1:31:03] awareness I should say that if we're

[1:31:05] going to go in that direction and long

[1:31:07] term, um like the three the three three

[1:31:11] different ways I I pointed out at the

[1:31:13] beginning, one of them was to do a lot

[1:31:15] more commercial and the residents pooped

[1:31:17] that. They were like, "No way. We don't

[1:31:19] want that." So that's fine and we will

[1:31:21] do what they want because we we

[1:31:22] represent them. But they'll they will

[1:31:25] also carry a higher burden in their

[1:31:27] property taxes and there's no way around

[1:31:29] that because if we don't have commercial

[1:31:32] contributing at a much higher rate per

[1:31:34] square foot of like if per square foot

[1:31:36] of dirt like I'm just talking about dirt

[1:31:38] because dirt is finite, right? We will

[1:31:41] carry they will carry a higher burden.

[1:31:43] Is that a problem? Let's look down at

[1:31:45] the second thing I want to talk about.

[1:31:47] um the 168 392 for median income. So

[1:31:51] this is one of the highest median

[1:31:53] incomes in the state. So we have a very

[1:31:56] high income population. I think we have

[1:32:00] that reputation. Not to exclude that

[1:32:02] there's other people, but it is

[1:32:04] generally so in other words, do they

[1:32:07] have the means to to um preserve the

[1:32:11] thing that brought them here? That's

[1:32:13] like to me they're tied together like

[1:32:15] our land use and their income if they

[1:32:18] can if they can afford to pay the extra

[1:32:20] property tax extra I say because they

[1:32:22] don't want that burden to be lifted by

[1:32:25] commercial that's just something we just

[1:32:27] have to be very transparent about it's

[1:32:29] not a problem it's just an awareness

[1:32:32] that's one thing just as being an

[1:32:33] accountant is that I thought about when

[1:32:35] I saw this lastly we talked about the

[1:32:37] senior population but I I was encouraged

[1:32:40] by the demographic analysis is

[1:32:43] >> sorry I'm losing my voice. This will be

[1:32:45] the end. Um more than 50% of our

[1:32:49] >> are um population is under over under

[1:32:52] the age of 30.

[1:32:54] >> So we have to often they are the the

[1:32:57] people like me. We have more time on our

[1:32:58] hands or even older. They they

[1:33:01] contribute a lot into the public sector

[1:33:04] because they have time. They're not

[1:33:05] running around to soccer putting kids to

[1:33:07] bed. That's why we're so glad to have

[1:33:09] you. you guys had families when you were

[1:33:11] um came in January. Like we do have a

[1:33:14] young population and we have to remember

[1:33:16] all the people we represent that are not

[1:33:18] in the room. Okay. So, I just want to

[1:33:21] point those two things out. Land use,

[1:33:24] income, and demographics. Thank you.

[1:33:28] >> Okay. Let's move on to the next section

[1:33:30] which is starts on page 23.

[1:33:35] >> I think we're talking about a different

[1:33:37] meeting.

[1:33:37] >> We are.

[1:33:38] >> Oh, is it the next one? Okay,

[1:33:40] >> we're on the appendixes now.

[1:33:41] >> Yeah, we're doing

[1:33:42] >> A and C. Did you Did we read the agenda?

[1:33:45] [laughter]

[1:33:45] >> We should do the appendix.

[1:33:47] >> So, next week you want to talk about the

[1:33:49] actual corridors. So,

[1:33:51] >> look, we're ending early. We could be

[1:33:52] happy with ourselves.

[1:33:53] >> Is that what you want to do, Chrissy?

[1:33:54] Next week we You want to talk about the

[1:33:55] corridors? The actual

[1:33:57] >> I specifically lumped it and I could

[1:33:58] have been not entirely correct into what was land use. Okay. Versus traffic

[1:34:03] like let's separate traffic out from

[1:34:05] land use.

[1:34:06] >> Yeah. But were we also going to discuss appendix A and C as well?

[1:34:09] >> Yes.

[1:34:10] >> Okay. Just one.

[1:34:11] >> Let's go to There we go.

[1:34:13] >> Can you scroll down pretty please?

[1:34:15] >> Okay. Dan or Kaden, do either one of you

[1:34:18] guys have anything to

[1:34:22] >> This is a pretty standard um scroll up

[1:34:25] just a little bit here. The other way.

[1:34:27] I'm sorry.

[1:34:30] >> Yeah, market analysis are pretty

[1:34:33] standard. We include them in a lot of

[1:34:35] our types of plans just so that

[1:34:37] communities have some bookends on on

[1:34:39] what's possible and and what they're

[1:34:42] missing. Um, a lot of times it's you you

[1:34:45] can use the data for for what it's

[1:34:48] worth. Um, if it's um illuminating to

[1:34:52] you and you feel that it's useful for

[1:34:54] your community, then use it. Um, if not,

[1:34:57] you can skip over it. It's just kind of

[1:34:59] a a standard process like existing

[1:35:02] conditions. um usually when we're doing

[1:35:04] these types of studies. And so really it

[1:35:07] just depends on what questions you have

[1:35:11] going into the study that you want

[1:35:13] answered, if there are any any specific

[1:35:15] ones. Um or it might spur some thoughts

[1:35:18] or ideas on additional further studies

[1:35:21] and analysis analyses that you'd like to

[1:35:23] do.

[1:35:27] » Kayen, did you have anything you wanted

[1:35:29] to add to that? No, just to just to

[1:35:30] piggyback on what Dan said, I think this

[1:35:32] is just kind of a more indepth analysis

[1:35:34] of of those economic numbers, retail,

[1:35:38] um, and really getting into how they got

[1:35:40] to those numbers. Um, I thought one in

[1:35:44] particular that is interesting since we

[1:35:45] were talking about the 137,000 square

[1:35:48] feet earlier and how that seems like a

[1:35:49] lot. They pulled that number. I think

[1:35:52] they had over 250,000 square feet is

[1:35:55] really what could be possible in Alpine

[1:35:57] and they're saying 137,000 is what's

[1:36:00] capturable and they go into a lot of

[1:36:02] detail on that here in this appendix but

[1:36:04] just for your information but yeah

[1:36:06] that's basically what this appendix is

[1:36:07] and appendix C is more of the detail of

[1:36:09] the sharetses and the workshops that

[1:36:11] were done. So

[1:36:14] >> thank you. Um,

[1:36:17] >> three things. [laughter]

[1:36:19] >> Excuse me. [clears throat] Um, thank you

[1:36:22] for Sarah for bringing up those things

[1:36:25] in the last one. I was surprised just to

[1:36:27] piggy back a hair off of what they said

[1:36:28] and then go into this. I was surprised

[1:36:31] how much you did talk about views in

[1:36:32] this. I was really surprised and I, as

[1:36:35] you know, love views. Even this week had

[1:36:38] another resident say, "We moved from the

[1:36:39] Bay Area here."

[1:36:41] >> Are we talking about the appendex A?

[1:36:43] >> No, we're getting into there.

[1:36:44] >> Okay. They said that's the reason we

[1:36:45] live moved here. So, thank you for

[1:36:47] putting it in. You're you're the experts

[1:36:48] and I really appreciate it. Anything

[1:36:49] that can be done, I'm for um and then

[1:36:52] what you said was so great. I guess the

[1:36:54] only thing you might think of is if we

[1:36:57] and this is now into this if we go if we

[1:37:00] are not able to capture all of the uh

[1:37:03] retail money that we can and the burden

[1:37:05] falls onto the residents because we want

[1:37:08] to preserve this identity and this

[1:37:10] really nice living situation that we all

[1:37:14] have. There are options but they hurt us

[1:37:18] and that is to make us smaller is to cut

[1:37:21] what we do on government. It make that's one option people have. Anyways

[1:37:27] on this I have a question on this is is

[1:37:30] I'm sorry. Will you remind me of your

[1:37:31] name? I apologize.

[1:37:32] >> Dan what?

[1:37:33] >> Dan Dan Wayne.

[1:37:34] >> Dan Wayne. I I have it written out

[1:37:36] Wayne. That's a good name. Dan Wayne.

[1:37:37] It's almost like John Wayne. Um, Dan,

[1:37:40] when we create this plan that gets

[1:37:44] buttoned up like the 31page Alpine plan

[1:37:47] that we have that I love so much, we

[1:37:49] reference it all the time as our vision

[1:37:51] and I wish we would use it more as kind

[1:37:52] of like our Bible for the city. When we

[1:37:55] create this, why would we have these

[1:37:56] appendixes in the plan? They seem like a

[1:38:01] lot of detailed data. Do we need these

[1:38:04] in there or do we not just want to have

[1:38:06] this like as a separate thing in the

[1:38:08] plan that people can reference? Don't we

[1:38:11] just learn from this and put in our

[1:38:14] guides? Does this go I guess my

[1:38:15] question. Does this go into the final

[1:38:16] plan this part?

[1:38:18] >> Um you can include it or not with the

[1:38:20] final plan. It's really up to you. It's

[1:38:22] just we paid for it so we're getting

[1:38:24] there.

[1:38:24] >> Okay.

[1:38:24] >> And uh yeah, it's we don't want to

[1:38:27] obviously um overwhelm people with too

[1:38:30] much detail. We just want to give them

[1:38:31] the the cliff notes and

[1:38:33] >> the basic conclusions and the documents.

[1:38:35] >> That may be one thing this will merit on

[1:38:38] its effectiveness to be utilized and

[1:38:41] that is there is so much detail in this.

[1:38:43] I mean two bodies are going over this

[1:38:45] for four weeks just to kind of hash it

[1:38:47] out. I I don't know if the group who's

[1:38:50] going to do this with Kaden and yourself

[1:38:52] can condense it and distill the most

[1:38:56] important pieces, but I think that will

[1:38:58] make it more approachable, more um uh

[1:39:02] digestible and more implementable, if

[1:39:04] that's a word. Uh so anyways, this this

[1:39:06] data I love. You reference it up above

[1:39:08] and it's it's a lot of it is the same

[1:39:09] just more detailed with the retail, with

[1:39:11] the population, with the demographics,

[1:39:14] um and with the uh land space. So I

[1:39:16] don't really have any questions. I

[1:39:17] appreciate the data. That's what

[1:39:19] >> Right.

[1:39:22] » No. Yeah. No, no further questions or

[1:39:24] really comments. I I would We have the

[1:39:26] data. I would suggest keeping it. That's

[1:39:28] what an appendix is. It's to refer to it

[1:39:29] if you want more information.

[1:39:30] >> Okay.

[1:39:31] >> That's my only comment.

[1:39:33] >> No comments.

[1:39:35] >> Um Okay. just uh a few questions and

[1:39:39] then I I just noticed some typos but I

[1:39:41] might have like an older version and I

[1:39:44] don't know if that's relevant to bring

[1:39:45] up at this point but um under existing

[1:39:48] retail inventory it talks about how we

[1:39:50] have a doughnut shop gas station and a

[1:39:52] supermarket and I was just confused page

[1:39:55] six of appendex A.

[1:39:57] >> It says we have a supermarket.

[1:39:58] >> Yeah. And so I was just curious

[1:40:01] where the supermarket is because I need

[1:40:04] some milk and eggs. No, I'm just

[1:40:06] kidding. Um,

[1:40:07] >> the junction they used to consider.

[1:40:10] >> Okay, so maybe that's It says gas

[1:40:12] station and super.

[1:40:14] >> Anyways, that was my Is that what

[1:40:16] they're referencing?

[1:40:17] >> It would have to be

[1:40:19] >> I think

[1:40:20] >> but it also says a doughnut shop, gas

[1:40:22] stations, and a supermarket. So, it

[1:40:24] already said gas station anyway.

[1:40:25] >> Okay, maybe that's a typo. Um, and then

[1:40:28] >> you know the doughnut shop, gas station.

[1:40:30] >> No, she knows.

[1:40:31] >> Okay.

[1:40:31] >> Yeah.

[1:40:32] >> Um, and then I was just confused. Can

[1:40:34] you clarify class B and class C

[1:40:38] buildings? Do you can you address those

[1:40:40] a little bit more?

[1:40:41] >> No, I cannot.

[1:40:42] >> Okay, that's all right. I will I will do

[1:40:45] some more research on that. And then is

[1:40:48] it appropriate there on table 11 on page

[1:40:51] 11, it says Trader Joe's instead of

[1:40:53] Trader Joe's? I don't know. Are these

[1:40:55] things that I should even be bringing

[1:40:56] up? I'm not sure.

[1:40:57] >> Keep it as tater.

[1:40:59] >> But at least that's in my draft.

[1:41:01] >> Trader Joe's won't come to Alpine. So,

[1:41:03] we're hoping for a Trader Joe's.

[1:41:05] [laughter]

[1:41:07] >> Um, and then page six under

[1:41:10] Pleasantville when it's describing, you

[1:41:12] know, kind of these different

[1:41:12] populations. I don't I don't know. Are

[1:41:15] they meant to reference northeast and

[1:41:17] parts of California or should that have

[1:41:19] said Alpine? I I don't know.

[1:41:21] >> I'm sure they're Yeah, that's probably a

[1:41:23] typo.

[1:41:24] >> Okay. Those were

[1:41:25] >> It's probably from an existing report

[1:41:27] that they didn't do a complete search

[1:41:28] and replace.

[1:41:29] >> Okay. Well, I don't know if it was

[1:41:31] appropriate to bring those up, but

[1:41:32] >> it is.

[1:41:33] >> You should. No, you should with Kaden

[1:41:34] when he works with our consultants that

[1:41:36] they can correct all that.

[1:41:38] >> Well, I apologize if I've taken time

[1:41:39] away from

[1:41:40] >> No, no, no. Definitely. Okay.

[1:41:41] >> We need your sharp eyes.

[1:41:43] >> Okay. Well, that's all I have to

[1:41:44] contribute. I think we should keep the

[1:41:46] appendix in as well. Sorry, Andrew.

[1:41:48] >> Oh, no. I don't think

[1:41:50] >> Oh, go ahead.

[1:41:51] >> Yeah, I think the appendix is super

[1:41:52] helpful, especially if you like the

[1:41:54] detail. I just again want to draw

[1:41:57] attention to page 11 where it says

[1:41:59] potential experiential retail tenants.

[1:42:01] This is something we can draw attention

[1:42:03] to when we're looking um at future

[1:42:07] projects. I think is a good reference

[1:42:09] point. And that's all I have to say.

[1:42:12] >> Okay.

[1:42:16] » Got it.

[1:42:18] >> Oh, no. Go down.

[1:42:19] >> Go down the last paragraph. Potential.

[1:42:22] We want potential. Like what should what

[1:42:24] should we build

[1:42:24] >> a med spa?

[1:42:26] >> Yeah,

[1:42:27] >> we

[1:42:28] >> but also like it goes like you said the

[1:42:30] people came and they want to redo some

[1:42:32] of our main street. Well,

[1:42:34] >> do you fit this like definition? Because

[1:42:35] this is what the professionals are

[1:42:37] telling us will work here. Like if

[1:42:40] you're kind of off track from this,

[1:42:42] maybe we need to like we want you to be

[1:42:44] successful.

[1:42:45] >> So

[1:42:46] >> yeah,

[1:42:49] >> so yeah. So, Whole Foods and Trader

[1:42:51] Joe's are both coming to Lehi.

[1:42:55] Um,

[1:42:56] >> we missed it. [laughter]

[1:42:59] >> Yeah. Okay.

[1:43:00] >> No, on the SR92. It's on the north side.

[1:43:05] >> The east of the freeway.

[1:43:07] >> Yes. East of the freeway.

[1:43:08] >> What was the first one?

[1:43:10] >> First business.

[1:43:11] >> Trader Joe's and Whole Foods.

[1:43:13] >> Whole Foods is the one I miss. Yeah.

[1:43:15] Peter

[1:43:18] >> and there's just if I can make a

[1:43:19] comment, mayor, like on page 14, town

[1:43:22] residential, um they have our setbacks

[1:43:26] wrong. So, we need to go through and

[1:43:28] just make sure all of those things

[1:43:30] >> line up with our

[1:43:31] >> Yeah, it should be like 30 front, 20

[1:43:33] rear.

[1:43:34] >> They've got 40 and 10. So,

[1:43:37] >> I'm wondering if they did that because I

[1:43:38] know when we were discussing with them

[1:43:40] during the meetings, we're talking about

[1:43:42] more of a front setback. So that there

[1:43:44] could be like especially like for

[1:43:47] restaurants and even for shops to have

[1:43:48] an outdoor area to engage the public and

[1:43:51] having like that um walkable area and

[1:43:56] just so I

[1:43:58] >> and if that's the intent then it just

[1:44:00] need to be rewarded that an idea would

[1:44:02] be to do use these setbacks you know in

[1:44:05] lie of what's in the code right now or

[1:44:07] something like that. I think I think it

[1:44:09] was intentional to have a bigger setback

[1:44:10] from what I remember one of the

[1:44:11] discussions is that like especially for

[1:44:14] like restaurants, they wanted outdoor

[1:44:15] seating areas and then um even for

[1:44:18] retail shops to have

[1:44:21] >> I don't think it was 40 feet though.

[1:44:23] >> It wasn't 40.

[1:44:23] >> I think we just need to clarify with the

[1:44:25] consultants

[1:44:26] >> and it is in the existing conditions

[1:44:28] section. So

[1:44:30] >> I don't know but it's something we can

[1:44:32] >> Okay, sounds great. Just as a related

[1:44:33] comment, you heard from the in I don't

[1:44:35] know if you heard listen to the public

[1:44:36] comments in the planning commission

[1:44:37] meeting, but some of the owners talked

[1:44:39] about the penciling aspect. It has to

[1:44:41] work financially and there just there's

[1:44:44] some uncertainty about whether retail

[1:44:47] restaurants would work. That's what why

[1:44:48] they would like to combine it with mixed

[1:44:51] residential use on top. And to make that

[1:44:54] work, they thought it would really need

[1:44:56] to have a a shorter setback so they

[1:44:58] could park in the back and have that

[1:45:00] residential on top. So again, some of

[1:45:03] these we're I've only been here 12

[1:45:06] years, so I don't know what retail, what

[1:45:07] restaurants have worked or haven't, but

[1:45:09] it sounds like it's very uncommon for

[1:45:11] them to do very well. And so trying to

[1:45:14] make our decisions meet the aesthetics

[1:45:18] that we want, but also make it realistic

[1:45:20] for the developers, for the land owners.

[1:45:23] >> Mayor, if I can just comment on it, it's

[1:45:25] related to what uh Council Member

[1:45:28] Rumbler said. So, in the last six weeks,

[1:45:31] is that formal not?

[1:45:33] >> In the last six weeks, uh, we've had two

[1:45:35] different property owners on Main Street

[1:45:37] approach us and say, "Hey, one of them

[1:45:41] wanted to submit an application like,

[1:45:42] well, wait a minute. This document first

[1:45:44] it needs to be approved and then it

[1:45:46] needs to be the code needs to be written

[1:45:48] to accomplish the idea in here." Um, but

[1:45:52] both of them would love to do some kind

[1:45:55] of a, you know, commercial on the

[1:45:57] bottom, residential on the top. Um, and

[1:46:01] I bring this up because as we are

[1:46:03] working with Dan on this second grant,

[1:46:06] something that we discussed as a

[1:46:09] possibility,

[1:46:11] uh, kind of a trial is maybe create an

[1:46:13] overlay zone that would allow a couple

[1:46:15] of projects like that to move forward.

[1:46:18] kind of see how they work because we

[1:46:19] have two potentially willing property

[1:46:21] owners right now, see how they work and

[1:46:24] then either make adjustments or take it

[1:46:27] out or do something. But it it could be

[1:46:30] kind of a trial. Um, and actually both

[1:46:34] these property owners over the last two

[1:46:37] or three years have approached us with,

[1:46:40] you know, what what can we do here? and right now our zoning and the way

[1:46:45] everything's set up doesn't allow that

[1:46:47] type of project. So that's something to

[1:46:50] kind of bring all of this together along

[1:46:52] with this second grant because that we

[1:46:56] could write something like that with

[1:46:58] that grant in our code and then it

[1:47:00] wouldn't apply everywhere. It would be

[1:47:03] and the zoning thing so the council

[1:47:06] still is involved with the process and

[1:47:08] the decision. Um, so that's just

[1:47:12] something to think about as we go

[1:47:13] through this plan.

[1:47:15] >> Yeah.

[1:47:16] >> Shane, what is that called? What is what

[1:47:17] is the term for when you have

[1:47:19] residential on the top?

[1:47:20] >> Mixed use.

[1:47:22] >> Mixed. Is there even a more defined term

[1:47:24] when it's layered on? Because I know

[1:47:26] mixed use can be we've got some

[1:47:28] residential here and some kind of quasi

[1:47:31] commercial in a zone, but is there a

[1:47:33] term for because I see them in Provo and

[1:47:35] I see them in several. We kind of even

[1:47:37] have one in uh the gold.

[1:47:40] >> No, it's even a term they use in the tax

[1:47:42] code for mixed use.

[1:47:43] >> What is it just mixed use? That means

[1:47:44] you have it on top of each other.

[1:47:45] >> The income tax

[1:47:46] >> vertical vertical mixed use is stacked.

[1:47:48] If it's just multiple stack,

[1:47:50] >> it can be horizontal mixed use. If it's

[1:47:52] not on top of each other, but it's kind

[1:47:55] of mixed together.

[1:47:57] >> And isn't that generally in in more of a

[1:47:59] commercial business zone? You don't have

[1:48:01] mixed use in residential. Residentials

[1:48:03] are so

[1:48:03] >> it's very limited.

[1:48:06] >> Yeah. Pretty standard. Pretty standard.

[1:48:07] >> As I was thinking about that uh tonight,

[1:48:10] just

[1:48:14] » good deal. Uh on page 29 the map, I at

[1:48:18] first I was a little bit concerned

[1:48:19] thinking, well, maybe this wouldn't

[1:48:21] work. Um because the darker orange kind

[1:48:24] of south of the roundabout says mixeduse

[1:48:28] commercial residential and then you've

[1:48:30] got the town center more downtown. Um,

[1:48:34] can can you you go to page 29

[1:48:37] >> there? 29 of this document. But then if

[1:48:40] you go read the town center uh

[1:48:42] description, it allows for mixed use. So

[1:48:46] it's just the

[1:48:49] naming of the areas or whatever might be

[1:48:54] concern you at first, but when you read

[1:48:55] the actual descriptions, it's there.

[1:48:57] >> So town center would be defined or

[1:49:00] allowed and excuse within our town

[1:49:02] center.

[1:49:02] >> Yeah. And it does say vertical mixed

[1:49:04] use.

[1:49:04] >> So that's the that's a specific overlay

[1:49:07] you'd be looking for is the vertical.

[1:49:11] >> Well, I think what they're suggesting is

[1:49:12] allowing it in that entire zone. But

[1:49:15] Shane is saying, you know, while we work

[1:49:17] on it, why don't we turn it into an

[1:49:19] overlay so it's an additional

[1:49:21] >> tinier

[1:49:22] >> and see how it works and then we can,

[1:49:24] you know, decide to either move it

[1:49:26] forward or not

[1:49:27] >> because, you know, we recently just went

[1:49:28] through something where it would apply

[1:49:30] everywhere and there were some concerns

[1:49:32] and maybe this would a way to try

[1:49:36] something. Well, and I was sat in on a

[1:49:39] little breakout with Ephraim and they

[1:49:42] kind of went through a couple of their

[1:49:44] they changed land use, they built stuff

[1:49:46] and it didn't go.

[1:49:47] >> So, I like the idea of doing this and

[1:49:50] then seeing is that a fit because

[1:49:53] they've tried a few things that they

[1:49:55] were like, whoops,

[1:49:56] >> work.

[1:49:56] >> Yeah. Didn't work. So,

[1:49:58] >> that's kind of nice to have that option.

[1:50:00] >> Mayor, may I make a [clears throat]

[1:50:02] short comment? Um, and it answers uh,

[1:50:05] Council Member Young's question from

[1:50:07] earlier in the meeting regarding how

[1:50:10] proactive uh, the city wants to be about

[1:50:12] implementing the plan. And I think

[1:50:14] there's some um, different philosophies

[1:50:17] that that different cities have. You can

[1:50:21] set the framework, the plan and code and

[1:50:23] then just sit back and wait for

[1:50:25] development applications to come and

[1:50:27] they either comply or they don't and

[1:50:29] that's your strategy. um selectively um

[1:50:33] communities can be uh I think more

[1:50:35] proactive in engaged engaging developers

[1:50:39] and developing incentive programs and

[1:50:42] doing other types of things to get

[1:50:45] exactly the type of development that you

[1:50:48] want. Oftent time it's catalyst

[1:50:50] development where we're the public

[1:50:52] sector and we're not in the market of de

[1:50:55] development. That's not our job. But um

[1:50:57] there's opportunities for us to have

[1:51:00] catalyst development that spurs other

[1:51:02] similar type of uh successful

[1:51:04] development. There's uh two projects

[1:51:07] that I'm working on right now with uh

[1:51:10] two other communities um in their down

[1:51:13] respective downtowns uh where we're

[1:51:15] doing sight specific technical

[1:51:17] assistance in partnership with the land

[1:51:19] owner. Um, so we're working with those

[1:51:22] individual land owners on a specific

[1:51:24] parcel and we hire a consultant and we

[1:51:28] do site planning and and design

[1:51:30] renderings, conceptual stuff. Um, and we work it work together on something

[1:51:37] that works for the developer, it works

[1:51:39] for the city, it meets the code. If it

[1:51:42] doesn't meet the code, we can change the

[1:51:43] code to to make it work. Um, and that's a real proactive way to get what

[1:51:50] you want where you want it and spur give

[1:51:53] other developers an example of what you

[1:51:56] want.

[1:51:58] >> And awesome.

[1:52:00] >> Oh, sorry.

[1:52:00] >> Sorry. No, I was just saying thank you.

[1:52:01] That really helps.

[1:52:02] >> The awesome thing on this, Dan's already

[1:52:04] done a little bit of ground work uh to

[1:52:07] see what consultants on their list might

[1:52:08] be interested in helping with our codes.

[1:52:10] And there's three that have came forward

[1:52:12] and um when we get a few things ironed

[1:52:17] out um we'll be ready to give a

[1:52:19] proposal.

[1:52:21] And we'll [clears throat] just add is I

[1:52:23] mentioned this two weeks ago. I totally

[1:52:24] respect the process of deciding whether

[1:52:26] or not we change an ordinance for a

[1:52:27] specific um use of a property in a

[1:52:31] business zone. But that's exactly what I

[1:52:34] the point I made was when the ordinance

[1:52:36] was first made, when the zoning was done

[1:52:38] and we created potential businesses and

[1:52:41] a couple conditional uses, the current

[1:52:44] city council with staff involvement can

[1:52:46] anticipate all the beneficial uses of of

[1:52:50] property. So that's part of zoning, part

[1:52:53] of land use is being open-minded to make

[1:52:56] changes to your code when it makes sense

[1:52:58] for your community

[1:53:00] and respecting the process of of a

[1:53:03] decision by council.

[1:53:06] » Okay. Should we move on?

[1:53:11] >> Can I just say one more thing, Mayor?

[1:53:12] >> Yes.

[1:53:14] Um, I just want to say this is a city

[1:53:15] planner's dream to work with a council

[1:53:18] that is really excited about a walkable

[1:53:20] main street and making a really great

[1:53:22] place. So, thank you.

[1:53:26] » Yay.

[1:53:27] >> Thank you, Kayen.

[1:53:28] >> Hi, Ryan.

[1:53:29] >> Hey, Ryan.

[1:53:29] >> Hi, Ryan.

[1:53:31] >> I'm sorry, guys. I just barely got on.

[1:53:33] Uh, Dan Dan's there and Dan's the the

[1:53:36] brains behind all the good things that

[1:53:37] came out of this. So, um, if if there's

[1:53:41] any questions or anything I can help,

[1:53:42] I'd be I'd be happy to do that. But

[1:53:44] again, just sorry, I was sorry I was

[1:53:45] like jumping on.

[1:53:48] >> Okay.

[1:53:50] Next appendix.

[1:53:51] >> Uh, B. It's okay, Ryan. We were just

[1:53:53] debating.

[1:53:54] >> Just doing C. C.

[1:53:56] >> You were skipping B.

[1:53:57] >> Um,

[1:53:58] >> yeah, that's part of land use.

[1:53:59] >> Yes. Sorry.

[1:54:01] >> Okay. Let me go back. And did you have

[1:54:02] anything to say about this appendix

[1:54:04] specifically or

[1:54:06] >> uh this is just all the the detailed

[1:54:09] information regarding the public

[1:54:11] engagement that we did. Um we just ask

[1:54:13] the the consultant to document and

[1:54:16] summarize it so that invariably at some

[1:54:19] point when someone says no one asked me

[1:54:22] or [laughter]

[1:54:23] or why did you do this behind closed

[1:54:26] doors that you have documentation of the

[1:54:29] process that we went through.

[1:54:30] >> Perfect.

[1:54:32] Kaden, did you have anything else that

[1:54:33] you wanted to add about appendix C

[1:54:35] before we move on to comments?

[1:54:39] >> Okay, [clears throat] Ryan, did you have

[1:54:41] anything you wanted to say about

[1:54:43] appendix C before we move on to council

[1:54:45] comments about it?

[1:54:47] >> No, I thought Jim or I thought uh excuse

[1:54:49] me, I thought Dan covered that really

[1:54:50] well. This was just really good on the

[1:54:52] consultants say this is what we heard

[1:54:54] and this is why we or how we got what we got out of this plan. So, I think

[1:54:57] it's a really good addition to the to

[1:54:59] the plan.

[1:55:00] >> Okay, perfect. We'll start with

[1:55:01] Councilman Young.

[1:55:03] >> I love that you bring up the catalyst

[1:55:05] for why we made this whole thing. I find

[1:55:07] that most of the things we do uh come

[1:55:09] from some sort of problem. We're rarely

[1:55:12] able to and so I like how you have this

[1:55:13] story of why we did this and how it came

[1:55:16] from that mixeduse proposal that didn't

[1:55:18] work and we realized we needed to plan

[1:55:19] this through. Um I like your whole

[1:55:23] approach. I was so impressed with your

[1:55:25] approach. Ryan, Kaden, who was still in

[1:55:28] the womb before he came, and then Dan. I

[1:55:31] love that y'all had him in this room,

[1:55:34] you had him put dots, you you talked to

[1:55:36] people, and I think you got good results

[1:55:38] because I've been doing it too in a

[1:55:40] different way and very similar results

[1:55:42] that we'll talk about for the corridors

[1:55:44] next meeting. Uh there's just one group

[1:55:46] that I think you're missing and it's a

[1:55:49] group that doesn't come out to stuff

[1:55:51] like this. You have to go to their

[1:55:52] house. They don't get up. they they're

[1:55:54] older, maybe a little crotchety. They

[1:55:57] don't they don't get up and come to

[1:55:59] meetings like this unless something

[1:56:00] really bad has happened or they're

[1:56:02] really mad about something. So, I

[1:56:04] noticed the groups who you had surveyed.

[1:56:06] I saw their feedback that they gave both

[1:56:09] at the top of this uh plan and in this

[1:56:11] appendix and I think you're just missing

[1:56:14] that group of I would call them longtime

[1:56:17] old alpiners.

[1:56:20] They just don't get out. I I'm not

[1:56:22] trying to be dismissive. they they're

[1:56:23] there. You got to go to them. So I think

[1:56:25] you might find

[1:56:26] >> So Andrew, I was at those meetings and

[1:56:29] you know, if you look at our

[1:56:30] demographics, it's about 15% of the

[1:56:32] population is 65 and older. I felt like

[1:56:36] in the open houses that we had, the

[1:56:38] senior residents from that live alpine

[1:56:41] senior residents were represented in

[1:56:43] these meetings.

[1:56:44] >> Right. No, I know some of them were. I

[1:56:46] just I just think yes you're right that

[1:56:49] I think they would have got some

[1:56:51] additional information based on the

[1:56:52] results.

[1:56:53] >> Totally. But I think we could have also

[1:56:55] gotten additional information if we went

[1:56:57] house to house also.

[1:56:58] >> Right. Right. So point of this comment

[1:57:00] is

[1:57:00] >> the key is that we got representation I

[1:57:03] feel like from

[1:57:06] we got a good cross-section and

[1:57:08] representation of the demographics of

[1:57:10] our city people that came but

[1:57:13] >> right. So I I I just know a group of

[1:57:16] people that doesn't come out that you

[1:57:17] could get and glean some of what you

[1:57:19] already know but some additional things

[1:57:22] from a group of people that you have to

[1:57:24] go to them. So it would be doing some

[1:57:26] doortodoor and they don't vocalize much.

[1:57:29] Anyways, that's the point of the process

[1:57:31] that you could gain a little bit more

[1:57:33] insight in the process by uh not putting

[1:57:37] out a petition to have people come out,

[1:57:38] but going after them and really ply

[1:57:41] prying for their uh feedback. um the and

[1:57:45] so I went through and I saw their

[1:57:46] feedback that they gave and I think it's

[1:57:49] mostly certain I think it's mostly

[1:57:50] certain with just a few of those

[1:57:52] additional things that I brought up at

[1:57:53] the beginning that I think you would

[1:57:55] hear a little bit more of um from that

[1:57:58] group that you would reach if you if you

[1:57:59] did a little bit more of like canvasing.

[1:58:02] So take it or leave it. But that's all I

[1:58:03] was having on this.

[1:58:04] >> Perfect. Right.

[1:58:05] >> Nothing.

[1:58:07] >> Um just we did have a meeting. I I agree

[1:58:10] this was um well represented by all ages

[1:58:14] of the community and people stayed for

[1:58:16] hours like it was super engaged and we

[1:58:18] did it over and over and over again

[1:58:21] multiple but we did have a meeting that

[1:58:23] was similar to what you're talking about

[1:58:25] and Dan actually

[1:58:27] >> um moderated it and it was that group of

[1:58:30] people that you're speaking about they

[1:58:31] came out it was a small

[1:58:33] >> um group we met in here

[1:58:36] >> we were all we were all ex So their

[1:58:39] voice I'm sorry I wasn't trying to

[1:58:40] downplay. Yeah, their voice was heard

[1:58:43] and I think

[1:58:44] >> um

[1:58:45] >> there was a concerted effort to also

[1:58:48] reach them and you know I want to thank

[1:58:50] Dan for taking the time to so if you

[1:58:52] want to talk to him kind of what they

[1:58:54] brought back as their messaging but they

[1:58:56] were actually

[1:58:58] um you know other than speed they want

[1:59:01] everybody to slow down which we've all

[1:59:03] heard and everyone's working hard on

[1:59:05] that but they aren't so set that they're

[1:59:09] not um unwilling willing to look at

[1:59:12] possibility.

[1:59:13] >> I agree.

[1:59:13] >> That was a surprise to me that they were

[1:59:15] open to possibilities.

[1:59:17] >> I agree.

[1:59:17] >> And I do have to thank Mr. Wayne for um

[1:59:20] doing that because that is he went above

[1:59:22] and beyond his job description to do

[1:59:26] that. I felt like um to go out of his

[1:59:28] way to find this demographic, bring them

[1:59:30] in to an evening meeting and moderate

[1:59:32] that. Um I do really appreciate your

[1:59:34] extra time and devotion. So, thank you

[1:59:36] very very much. I agree that was very

[1:59:38] helpful and I got feedback from from

[1:59:40] those residents.

[1:59:42] >> Judges, pardon that came off as a

[1:59:44] slight. It didn't talk what I read

[1:59:47] didn't talk about what you brought up.

[1:59:48] It mostly talked about coming to the

[1:59:50] meetings and doing the jar. So, pardon.

[1:59:52] I didn't know that part. So, thank you.

[1:59:54] >> Okay. Um I don't have any comments on

[1:59:56] this section. Okay.

[1:59:58] >> Um

[1:59:58] >> Councilwoman Hannaman.

[2:00:00] >> Oh, thank you. I think um this the the

[2:00:03] part that stood out to me from the

[2:00:05] feedback was these six I'm a visual

[2:00:08] learner. So these six criteria I felt

[2:00:10] like the just to credence to or

[2:00:15] acknowledge how they don't know our city

[2:00:18] but within a few days and with some um

[2:00:21] feedback from our citizens and city

[2:00:24] leaders they came up with these six

[2:00:25] things which I thought okay let me tell

[2:00:27] you page it's appendix C page six

[2:00:32] >> one page six these things like were our

[2:00:35] priority like ways we I would say areas

[2:00:38] of opportunity

[2:00:39] things that they would like to see in

[2:00:40] the future. Kind of like Ryan likes to

[2:00:42] say, "What do we want to be when we grow

[2:00:43] up?" And then also they highlighted um

[2:00:46] which we will talk about next meeting if

[2:00:48] you go up one page that like our traffic

[2:00:51] patterns, how we really just have we're

[2:00:54] dead in town on the east. There's like

[2:00:56] no real circling back. But on the on the

[2:00:59] west side, um [snorts] again, they

[2:01:01] highlighted Ranch Drive, that

[2:01:02] importance. also the walking trails like

[2:01:05] all the different colors here. We have

[2:01:07] streets, we have um bike paths, we have

[2:01:10] trails. So, we just we're trying to

[2:01:12] really emphasize which we are going to

[2:01:14] talk about a different day, but that is

[2:01:16] an important quality of life for our

[2:01:19] residents is they want to be mobile and

[2:01:22] it's not just cycling and it's not just

[2:01:24] cars. They want to be on their feet.

[2:01:26] They want to use horses, you know, they

[2:01:27] want to use um they want to run really

[2:01:30] fast like like Brent

[2:01:33] like Dustin's really fast.

[2:01:36] >> Some of us just some of us just walk

[2:01:37] fast,

[2:01:39] >> but nevertheless, we love to be outside

[2:01:41] because we do live in such a iconic

[2:01:43] beautiful place. So, I appreciate how

[2:01:46] they quick like this this right here,

[2:01:48] this epidemic C. Like this was just

[2:01:51] after a couple days being here, they

[2:01:53] really like wrapped up what our values

[2:01:55] are so quickly and I was very, it didn't

[2:01:58] take a lot. It wasn't painful. It was

[2:02:00] very fluid and um that's what I

[2:02:03] appreciated about the process is they didn't come to tell us who we'd

[2:02:07] need to be. They came to find out who we

[2:02:09] are. That's it.

[2:02:11] >> Okay. Thank you. Thank Did you have any

[2:02:14] closing comments that you wanted to add?

[2:02:17] >> Um no, just in in regard Well, in

[2:02:20] regards to that, I think sometimes you

[2:02:22] see some evidence of the public

[2:02:24] engagement like dots on a map and things

[2:02:26] like that and those those don't really

[2:02:28] tell you a lot really. Those are just

[2:02:30] engaging activities. So when someone

[2:02:32] puts a dot down, you can say, "Why did

[2:02:33] you do that?" They're just foot in the

[2:02:36] doors to have conversations um with

[2:02:39] residents. And uh so most of the those

[2:02:42] types of activities, that's really all

[2:02:44] they are is just to engage folks. But I

[2:02:47] I'm just really happy that everyone on

[2:02:48] the the council and that everyone

[2:02:50] involved with the the project is pleased

[2:02:52] uh with the result. That's always my

[2:02:54] number one goal um funding these types

[2:02:57] of projects is I want you to be glad

[2:02:58] that you did it um at the end of the

[2:03:01] day. And uh I I don't look at them as

[2:03:05] singular projects. Um I I look at them

[2:03:08] as building a wave of momentum to get

[2:03:11] from where you are now to where you want

[2:03:13] to be um in the future. And so don't

[2:03:17] think about and you've already you're

[2:03:18] already on that path because you've

[2:03:20] asked for additional funds now to do to

[2:03:22] codify what you're doing. You may might

[2:03:25] want to think about next step beyond

[2:03:27] that. Do you want to do some

[2:03:28] sightspecific conceptual design and

[2:03:31] partner with a developer? Do you want to

[2:03:32] do whatever you want to do? Um that's

[2:03:36] where I'm trying to to get you um from

[2:03:39] where you're at to to where you want to

[2:03:41] be. and and usually that takes three or

[2:03:44] four or multiple steps over a number of

[2:03:47] years u to get there. So I just

[2:03:49] encourage you to do that and continue to

[2:03:51] partner with us.

[2:03:52] >> Thank you.

[2:03:53] >> Do do they feel like they have enough

[2:03:54] information or do they want us to send

[2:03:57] our written thing or do you feel like

[2:03:59] this was enough for what you need to go

[2:04:01] forward?

[2:04:01] >> Cadence doing this.

[2:04:03] >> So you're you have what you need. Okay.

[2:04:04] >> Yes.

[2:04:05] >> Yeah. Yeah, the main thing now is we we

[2:04:07] always have problems at the end of the

[2:04:09] project um because it takes time to make

[2:04:12] edits to these. And so my strongest

[2:04:14] suggestion would be to get collect all

[2:04:18] of your edits and submit them all at

[2:04:21] once and say these are our edits. Our

[2:04:23] final edits were done once they make

[2:04:26] those edits. Um otherwise it just goes

[2:04:29] on and on and we

[2:04:30] >> do you do you want there might be

[2:04:33] conflicting things someone wants and

[2:04:35] someone doesn't do we vote on this? Do

[2:04:38] we give them to you? Do we kind of have

[2:04:39] a mini uh session to decide what we want

[2:04:43] to pass on?

[2:04:44] >> I think most of the stuff there's

[2:04:45] consensus. There might be some issues

[2:04:47] with something that you mentioned

[2:04:49] earlier. Um but I think what we could do

[2:04:51] is

[2:04:53] send your edits to um Kadenor. he will

[2:04:56] incorporate those and then once he'll

[2:04:59] have a draft or draft B he'll send it

[2:05:02] out again and then we'll make comments

[2:05:03] and then we can um

[2:05:05] >> you know we could talk about it and then

[2:05:07] we you know then we'll send it on to our

[2:05:09] contractors and then they'll you know

[2:05:11] codify it send it back to us

[2:05:14] >> not codify they'll make all the agenda

[2:05:16] edits so this will no should no longer

[2:05:19] say draft then it'll come back to us and

[2:05:21] then we'll actually vote on it. Okay.

[2:05:23] >> And we we decided two weeks ago that

[2:05:25] we're going to do a redline version

[2:05:26] that'll show this is a planning

[2:05:28] commission edit. This is an Andrew edit.

[2:05:29] >> Yeah.

[2:05:29] >> And then we could or just as an example.

[2:05:32] >> Yeah.

[2:05:32] >> And we can

[2:05:35] >> Yeah. decide whether we want to accept

[2:05:37] them or want to need to vote on them or

[2:05:39] talk more about them.

[2:05:40] >> Right. But we've got to go through these

[2:05:41] sections first and like um Dan said, we

[2:05:44] got to make sure that we get through all

[2:05:45] of this so that we can move on with um

[2:05:47] the ordinances so we can move forward.

[2:05:50] Kaden, to make this efficient, do you

[2:05:51] want us to do like at the end of

[2:05:52] tonight, give you our edits, or do you

[2:05:54] want all at the end?

[2:05:56] >> You can send them now if you would like.

[2:05:58] I think I won't send it to the

[2:06:00] consultant till we've gone through the

[2:06:01] entire document because I think we only

[2:06:03] have one more review with them for them

[2:06:05] to edit. Um, but yeah, you send them

[2:06:08] tonight if you would like.

[2:06:09] >> And mayor and council, we only have one

[2:06:11] more meeting to go over this where we've

[2:06:13] gone through the rest of it, right?

[2:06:14] Because

[2:06:14] >> No, I think there's two more, right?

[2:06:15] >> Two more. What What do you want? You

[2:06:17] want to do the corridors next week and

[2:06:18] then after that

[2:06:19] >> just divide up into land use and

[2:06:21] traffic.

[2:06:22] >> So next week is land use and then

[2:06:23] >> if we have time to go through all of

[2:06:25] land use which is the bulk of everything

[2:06:26] that'd be great.

[2:06:28] >> Yeah. Hopefully.

[2:06:29] >> I don't know if we will.

[2:06:29] >> You know what? We'll have to look at

[2:06:30] what our um agenda looks like. So just

[2:06:33] depending on how we break it up, but

[2:06:34] we'll let you guys know.

[2:06:35] >> Will you just send us what pages you

[2:06:36] want us to include and what so we so we

[2:06:38] get those certain idea.

[2:06:40] >> So

[2:06:42] Kaden, did you have anything you wanted

[2:06:43] to add? Just that you wanted the ad eds.

[2:06:45] Ryan, did you have anything you wanted

[2:06:46] to conclude?

[2:06:49] >> No, I was just going to say a lot of

[2:06:50] like the land use stuff we looked at

[2:06:52] with the planning commission obviously.

[2:06:54] So those those p page numbers and

[2:06:56] everything should be should be in there. Stuff that should be pretty

[2:06:59] easy to find.

[2:07:01] >> Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you,

[2:07:03] Dan, for your time. I really appreciate

[2:07:05] you coming out.

[2:07:06] >> Sorry, mayor.

[2:07:06] >> Yes.

[2:07:07] >> When you do decide, um, I would like to

[2:07:09] communicate that to the the residents.

[2:07:12] the the pages we're going over and so if

[2:07:14] you just share that with me.

[2:07:15] >> Oh, okay. We'll do I think it'll a lot

[2:07:17] of it will depend on what we have on the

[2:07:20] agenda which we won't know. Seems like

[2:07:22] um a lot of our stuff comes in at the

[2:07:25] last week.

[2:07:26] >> There's there's quite a bit on the next

[2:07:27] agenda actually.

[2:07:31] » The way it looks right now, some of it

[2:07:33] depends on

[2:07:35] >> Yeah. But one other thought just on the

[2:07:37] redline version, it's a little bit

[2:07:40] harder maybe with this document because

[2:07:42] of all the inserts and pictures and

[2:07:44] everything.

[2:07:45] >> They might have to use like some bubble

[2:07:47] comment boxes or something like that or

[2:07:50] it's can really mess with the format

[2:07:52] >> just so that we can tell

[2:07:54] >> the differences. That's great. Pardon?

[2:07:56] >> Let's move on to item B. Proposal to

[2:07:59] adopt an ordinance regulating the use of

[2:08:02] golf carts on city roadways.

[2:08:07] [clears throat]

[2:08:09] >> Who's

[2:08:10] >> Thanks, Dan.

[2:08:11] >> Thank you, Dan, so much. Kaden, are you

[2:08:14] doing that or is Okay.

[2:08:16] >> Yeah. So, this is I think the ordinance

[2:08:19] if you scroll down, Heidi, I think it's

[2:08:21] in here from Highland might have. Okay.

[2:08:24] Yeah. And the green below this one as

[2:08:27] well. I I included the packet next to

[2:08:30] you if just in case it wasn't included

[2:08:31] in this packet. But um yeah, so this is

[2:08:34] just a proposal to adopt a golf cart cart

[2:08:41] ordinance on city highways. Um there's

[2:08:44] been a request for this ordinance

[2:08:46] um that's similar that would make it

[2:08:49] similar to that Highland City ordinance

[2:08:51] that they adopted last year. Um, so this

[2:08:55] is that was included to give you guys a

[2:08:57] an idea of what a golf cart ordinance

[2:08:59] might look like. Um, due to our

[2:09:03] proximity to Highland, we we thought it

[2:09:05] would be reasonable to assume that

[2:09:06] Highland's adopted golf cart ordinance

[2:09:07] can be of benefit to the council um as

[2:09:10] they consider one for for Alpine. So

[2:09:13] really this is just an open discussion

[2:09:15] today. A there's no there's no ordinance

[2:09:17] going into effect unless you I guess

[2:09:18] wanted to, but um just the viability of

[2:09:22] doing a golf core ordinance in Alpine.

[2:09:27] » It seemed like an easy way to start the

[2:09:29] conversation is to look at the

[2:09:31] neighboring city's ordinance. Just a,

[2:09:33] you know, place to start. And it is

[2:09:35] interesting. I since this came up, I've

[2:09:38] seen at least one other city had a

[2:09:40] little thing on their Facebook page. Um,

[2:09:43] you know, where where do we allow golf

[2:09:45] carts on paved trails? No. On this? No.

[2:09:49] In parks? No. They were totally no. And

[2:09:53] everything of a Spanish fork.

[2:09:55] >> They had created a video that they put

[2:09:56] on their social media, but

[2:09:58] >> you know, other cities have uh prepared

[2:10:01] ordinances and and passed them to allow

[2:10:04] this. So,

[2:10:05] >> when we tabled this last week, um the

[2:10:07] there was a presentation included in our

[2:10:09] packet. Are we not going to see that? I

[2:10:11] think

[2:10:12] >> I think Mario's gonna come up in chat or

[2:10:14] let people know.

[2:10:15] >> I I

[2:10:16] >> It's a question.

[2:10:19] >> Yeah,

[2:10:23] » I wasn't sure when it wasn't in the

[2:10:24] packet.

[2:10:25] >> I think it's I

[2:10:26] >> I actually didn't real I think it

[2:10:29] >> was an oversight.

[2:10:30] >> It was in last

[2:10:31] >> It was in the folder last time. Yeah,

[2:10:33] >> it was.

[2:10:34] >> So, it maybe didn't make it in, but

[2:10:36] >> but can we can we still fine to go

[2:10:38] through it?

[2:10:40] Um,

[2:10:42] >> sure.

[2:10:44] >> Um, let's

[2:10:53] uh once again, thank you so much to the

[2:10:55] council for allowing me to spend a

[2:10:56] couple of minutes talking to you. I

[2:10:58] represent a grassroots efforts of Alpine

[2:11:00] residents who are interested in uh the

[2:11:04] city um updating their municipal code u

[2:11:08] and um being proactive in the use of uh

[2:11:12] accepting at least the the use of golf

[2:11:14] carts uh within the city streets of

[2:11:16] Alpine. As a personal uh background, um

[2:11:20] I'll be 75 years old in August and I got

[2:11:23] into the safety business when I was 22.

[2:11:26] So I've been speaking safety for the

[2:11:28] last 50 years plus. I run a consulting

[2:11:31] service right now currently that is uh

[2:11:33] aviation related but yet it is domestic

[2:11:36] international customers. I speak safety

[2:11:38] every day. I feel like I'm fairly

[2:11:40] comfortable in addressing any questions

[2:11:42] or concerns related to safety.

[2:11:45] Go to the next slide please.

[2:11:48] So, we have a problem for us, right? And the problem is that the current

[2:11:53] Alpine code and I have visited with Don

[2:11:55] Quigley and I had visited with Ryan uh

[2:11:58] before his departure uh once or twice in

[2:12:01] a general format over this, but I have

[2:12:03] visited in detail with Don Quigley.

[2:12:05] Alpine's current code is silent on golf

[2:12:08] cart use only to the extent will you put the microphones together?

[2:12:11] only to the extent that it um addresses

[2:12:15] the where to park golf carts during snow

[2:12:18] removal. Uh there there is uh some

[2:12:20] safety concerns uh because golf carts uh

[2:12:23] are not built like cars. They don't have

[2:12:25] airbags. Uh but uh we're the easiest way

[2:12:29] to uh countermeasure or counteract

[2:12:32] against the safety is by codifying by

[2:12:35] defining by assigning accountability to

[2:12:37] the uses of golf carts. Uh there are a

[2:12:40] number of peer cities uh currently uh

[2:12:43] there are uh three or four communities

[2:12:46] uh that either currently have the use of

[2:12:49] al of golf carts assigned. Um Pleasant

[2:12:52] View which is up north around Cisville

[2:12:54] area. Uh St. George and um Highland are

[2:12:58] three that come to mind.

[2:13:01] Um our our proposal from looking at it

[2:13:04] from a safety perspective once again is

[2:13:07] to recommend to the council that the

[2:13:09] council be not only predictive but be

[2:13:11] proactive in

[2:13:14] at least taking a very serious look a

[2:13:17] deep dive at what the what the

[2:13:20] cotification occurred in Highland City

[2:13:22] which is a sister city in which also the

[2:13:25] Lone Peak Police Department oversees. um

[2:13:29] and why is it that they passed it and

[2:13:31] why did they think it was beneficial to

[2:13:33] their community? Um likewise, we see

[2:13:36] that for us in Alpine, we think it's a

[2:13:38] win-win situation.

[2:13:41] Uh the other thing that this would do,

[2:13:43] of course, would be create a standard

[2:13:44] document by which the Lone Peak Police

[2:13:46] Department could enforce the traffic

[2:13:48] rules. Right now, we have an area in

[2:13:51] South West Alpine and North East Island

[2:13:56] where you'll have an intersection and on

[2:13:58] one side of the intersection you're okay

[2:14:00] and on the other one you're not without

[2:14:02] any additional risk whatsoever. Um and

[2:14:06] last but not least uh this uh and

[2:14:09] following other communities nationwide

[2:14:11] that have not only adopted but have

[2:14:13] encouraged the use of golf carts within

[2:14:16] community is that they have created an

[2:14:18] unexpected source of revenue for that

[2:14:21] community. And so what they've done if

[2:14:23] you're familiar with uh one community

[2:14:25] that comes to mind is the villages. And

[2:14:27] the villages in central Florida is the

[2:14:29] world's largest blue-haired community uh

[2:14:32] in the United States. There's probably

[2:14:33] 75,000 or 100,000 people and they not

[2:14:36] only allow but they encourage the use of

[2:14:39] golf carts and they charge $100 a year.

[2:14:41] And when you're looking at literally

[2:14:43] thousands of golf carts now you're

[2:14:45] looking for additional revenue that the

[2:14:47] city can use for whatever they may be.

[2:14:49] We go to the next slide please.

[2:14:52] So let's talk a little bit about what

[2:14:54] the current gap is. Right?

[2:14:58] Since there is no clear authorization,

[2:15:01] restriction requirement or safety

[2:15:02] standard that exists. And a as we look

[2:15:05] at it and we fall back a little bit, we

[2:15:07] take a look at the fact that at least to

[2:15:10] my understanding, the governing

[2:15:12] authority for the use of golf carts on

[2:15:16] public streets in the state of Utah is

[2:15:19] the Department of Public Safety under

[2:15:21] the Utah Highway Patrol. They're the

[2:15:23] keepers of the rules. And by default, a

[2:15:26] golf cart is not allowed to be used in a

[2:15:30] community unless that municipality

[2:15:33] creates

[2:15:34] uh u codifying uh structure or language

[2:15:38] that permits the use of those golf

[2:15:40] carts. Interestingly enough, within that

[2:15:42] language, there is permission that

[2:15:45] allows that municipality to not only

[2:15:48] meet but exceed the requirements that

[2:15:51] are set forth in the Utah code.

[2:15:54] Interestingly enough, as we took I I

[2:15:56] spent some time recently visiting with a

[2:15:58] couple of members of the Highlands City

[2:16:01] Council and they both expressed uh their

[2:16:04] support for this ordinance. They talked

[2:16:06] in detail about how the ordinance came

[2:16:08] to be and they talked about the fact

[2:16:10] that their ordinance which is uh I sent

[2:16:13] emails to everybody. Uh they had

[2:16:15] appendixes, they had copies of the uh of

[2:16:18] the ordinance itself and everything that

[2:16:20] ordinance not only met but exceeded

[2:16:23] every single requirement that was found

[2:16:25] within the state of Utah. And so they

[2:16:27] felt comfortable going with that.

[2:16:30] Um the real crux of the matter is that

[2:16:34] whether we like it or not, golf carts

[2:16:36] are operating in in in Alpine City

[2:16:39] streets, right? And and so they're going

[2:16:41] to continue uh to grow. Uh local sales

[2:16:46] are probably in the vicinity of at least

[2:16:48] in Salt Lake County are exceeding

[2:16:50] between 40 and 60 carts a week for

[2:16:52] different communities in Salt Lake in

[2:16:54] Salt Lake County alone. That doesn't

[2:16:56] even take into account what Utah County

[2:16:58] may be. So, we're going to see an

[2:16:59] increase in golf carts.

[2:17:01] From a safety perspective, it doesn't

[2:17:04] matter if you're a cooker, a baker,

[2:17:05] candlestick baker. It doesn't matter

[2:17:07] what industry you're in, but if a

[2:17:10] municipality or an institution or a

[2:17:13] factory or um a governmental agency

[2:17:19] does

[2:17:21] takes the option of not doing anything

[2:17:23] about codifying and defining and

[2:17:26] assigning responsibilities and

[2:17:28] accountabilities

[2:17:30] to a problem area. What happens

[2:17:32] statistically is that the increase for

[2:17:35] accidents, the increase for incidents

[2:17:38] actually it it it it increases, it goes

[2:17:41] higher. So the the best defense that the

[2:17:44] city of Alcoin can have even to the

[2:17:47] extent of a fiduciary responsibility,

[2:17:49] the city's

[2:17:51] most proactive manner right now

[2:17:53] recommendation would be to update the

[2:17:56] code and you as a city council get to

[2:17:59] decide what goes in that code. It

[2:18:01] doesn't say it has to be exactly what Highland does. Highland is a sister

[2:18:06] city. I just elected to include that as

[2:18:08] an example, but you guys get to select

[2:18:10] what it does.

[2:18:13] Um, we do have the support of two

[2:18:15] council members currently right now.

[2:18:17] We're seeking the support of every

[2:18:18] single one of you. One of the things

[2:18:20] that we also should keep in mind is that

[2:18:22] statistically,

[2:18:26] well, St. George is is a huge community.

[2:18:28] Their police department take a look at

[2:18:30] it. their their city administrators took

[2:18:32] a look at it and decided it was safe

[2:18:33] enough for them. Um, Pleasant View,

[2:18:36] which is a smaller community, took the

[2:18:38] same same avenue as um did uh Highland.

[2:18:44] For us, as Council Member Rumler spoke

[2:18:48] about earlier, Alpine is a culde-sac

[2:18:51] community. Our streets are smaller. Our

[2:18:53] streets are slower. the volume of

[2:18:55] traffic is less much less in Highland in

[2:18:58] Alpine than it is in Highland. So

[2:19:01] statistically if you look at it our

[2:19:04] accident or potential accident rate

[2:19:06] would would be lower. Uh especially if

[2:19:09] you start talking about having some

[2:19:12] statistics and data that provided us

[2:19:14] additional uh framework to look at it

[2:19:17] more objectively than subjectively.

[2:19:19] Could you go to the next slide please?

[2:19:21] So, we look at some of the risks. Uh we

[2:19:25] see some of the risks that are there in

[2:19:26] the golf carts, but then at the same

[2:19:28] time, we know how a code can increase

[2:19:32] safety. What we're doing is we're

[2:19:34] assigning accountability and we're

[2:19:36] assigning responsibility. We're not

[2:19:38] talking about our our our vision is

[2:19:40] never to allow a 12-year-old with six of

[2:19:43] his friends to jump in a golf cart on a

[2:19:45] Saturday morning and go uh cross country

[2:19:48] across Burgess Park, which we've seen

[2:19:50] happen, right? We've all seen that. And

[2:19:52] sometimes perhaps in the back of a mind,

[2:19:54] that's the sight picture that we see.

[2:19:56] But that's not what we're profering

[2:19:57] here. That's not what we're

[2:19:58] recommending. What we're recommending is

[2:20:00] every single action that is

[2:20:05] dictated, mandated, and enforced by not

[2:20:08] only the Utah state code, but also uh

[2:20:11] different codes and municipalities. Uh

[2:20:14] having a licensed operator, having no

[2:20:16] more than the amount of people that are

[2:20:18] supposed to be in the golf cart. If

[2:20:19] you're going to operate at night, you

[2:20:20] have to have lights, you have to have

[2:20:22] reflectors. Um you're

[2:20:25] subject to every single traffic law. You

[2:20:27] run a stop sign, that's it. You're a

[2:20:29] DUI, that's it. It's they apply the

[2:20:31] exact same way. Next slide, please.

[2:20:35] And so here's some of the safety data

[2:20:37] that has popped up, right? So what we're

[2:20:39] saying is if we end up with a smaller,

[2:20:43] slower volume of traffic. We have 70%

[2:20:47] reduction in pedestrian fatalities, 30

[2:20:50] to 50% reduction in serious traffic

[2:20:53] accidents, and almost a near zero uh

[2:20:57] environment where

[2:21:00] if it's not mismanaged, that's what

[2:21:02] we're going to we're going to end up

[2:21:04] with a with a uh safer system. Next

[2:21:07] slide, please.

[2:21:11] » Oh, I'm sorry.

[2:21:12] >> I'm sorry. Okay. So, we're looking at

[2:21:14] Highland City, St. George, and Pleasant

[2:21:16] View. Those are the three communities

[2:21:18] that have got adopted to it. I had

[2:21:20] recent conversations with the city

[2:21:22] planners at Pleasant Grove, Cedar Hills.

[2:21:25] They are extremely interested in this.

[2:21:27] [clears throat] They're kind of sitting

[2:21:28] back and waiting and seeing what

[2:21:30] happens. Um, we're just going to see

[2:21:32] this continue to grow and expand. The

[2:21:34] other thing that it's going to do is

[2:21:36] it's going to give us more of a town

[2:21:38] feeling. It's going to give us more of a

[2:21:40] of that community that we so talked

[2:21:42] about with these visions of of of

[2:21:44] everything neat that what Alpine's

[2:21:46] about. Next slide, please.

[2:21:50] So,

[2:21:51] >> why mirror Highlands, right? Common

[2:21:55] language, familiarity to the Lone Peaks

[2:21:58] Police Department. It creates a standard

[2:22:00] document with which they can enforce.

[2:22:03] It brings a greater city citizen

[2:22:05] understanding. And I think this is

[2:22:06] really part of the problem. And as I

[2:22:08] talk to my neighbors that have golf

[2:22:10] carts, one of the things that I get is,

[2:22:12] "Well, nobody's watching us. We can do

[2:22:14] whatever we want." Uh, what are they

[2:22:16] going to do to me? Kind of shrug their

[2:22:18] shoulders. And then we end up putting

[2:22:20] Chief Williams organization in a bad

[2:22:23] position because they want to be the

[2:22:24] very best they can be for the community.

[2:22:26] They want to be there to help and

[2:22:28] protect and serve. Just like their motto

[2:22:30] says, nobody wants to be the ugly person

[2:22:32] to rain down on somebody. But when the

[2:22:34] rules are not clear,

[2:22:38] you know, when the cat's away, the mouse

[2:22:40] will play kind of kind of thing. And so

[2:22:42] I think that there's a large number of

[2:22:44] families in this community that for X,

[2:22:47] Y, or Z reason don't understand the

[2:22:48] rules and basically look the other way.

[2:22:51] If in fact we create a methodology which we enforce the rules and that

[2:22:57] person signs a form when he registers

[2:23:00] his golf cart that says A I'm over the

[2:23:02] age of 18 B I'm the registered operator

[2:23:05] on this vehicle or at least on the title

[2:23:07] right and I understand if if I go to the

[2:23:11] pen penalty boxes these are going to be

[2:23:13] the three or four things that happened

[2:23:15] to me all escalating in nature based on

[2:23:17] the frequency of of the citations.

[2:23:21] Then it it might cause a dad or a mom or

[2:23:24] a grandpa or a grandma to think twice

[2:23:26] and say, "No, Billy, you can't take the

[2:23:28] cart because my head's going to be on a

[2:23:30] chopping block." Right.

[2:23:31] >> Mr. Himenez, can we wrap this up? Can

[2:23:33] you just kind of do a conclusion in the

[2:23:36] next couple of minutes, please? I'm just

[2:23:38] getting messages from council.

[2:23:40] >> I have some I want to make sure we have

[2:23:42] time for questions and we still have our

[2:23:44] budget review and

[2:23:45] >> Sorry. My apologies. Yes, sir. Yes,

[2:23:47] ma'am. Basically, I'm here. I'm here to

[2:23:50] let you know there's a grassroots

[2:23:51] efforts of people that would like golf

[2:23:52] carts to be uh codified for Alpine to to

[2:23:59] u update their municipal code. I'm here

[2:24:02] to help in any way whatsoever.

[2:24:04] >> And if there's anything else that any of

[2:24:06] the council members would like to talk

[2:24:08] to me later on about uh

[2:24:12] any questions or concerns that they

[2:24:14] might have. So, I think what we'll do is

[2:24:15] we'll go around and we'll give everyone

[2:24:17] a couple minutes to either make a

[2:24:19] statement or ask a question.

[2:24:20] >> Sure. Thanks. Uh, are there any other

[2:24:22] slides you can scan through that we need

[2:24:24] to see or is this everything?

[2:24:25] >> Everybody scan it really quick.

[2:24:26] >> Yeah, just go through.

[2:24:28] >> All right.

[2:24:28] >> Common standard. Okay. Is there anything

[2:24:30] else that because I don't know. Okay, I

[2:24:32] got that municipal code. Okay. Is this

[2:24:35] like your fine? Okay, that's Thank you

[2:24:36] for your Okay, fantastic.

[2:24:38] >> Um, thank you. Wow, this is amazing. um

[2:24:43] this uh so do you envision this um and

[2:24:47] even though I support this I uh I did

[2:24:50] not write this I he's creating this so I have genuine questions um uh do you

[2:24:55] know how it's going in Highland and in

[2:24:57] St. George?

[2:24:58] >> Yeah.

[2:24:59] >> Have we?

[2:24:59] >> They're very pleased with it. As a

[2:25:01] matter of fact, when speaking with a

[2:25:03] couple of the members of the Highland

[2:25:04] City Council, they uh are going to

[2:25:07] approach the the the city council and

[2:25:09] the mayor on some additional

[2:25:10] modifications to their current structure

[2:25:12] which will only increase the use of golf

[2:25:15] carts within their community.

[2:25:16] >> Do we have we had any, you know, uh

[2:25:20] catastrophic incidents or anything uh in

[2:25:22] Highland recently with these or has it

[2:25:24] been pretty okay?

[2:25:27] I guess we're looking at Chief. You can

[2:25:28] add

[2:25:29] >> Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Okay. I

[2:25:32] >> Okay. The the curiosity

[2:25:34] >> I'm I'm not I'm not aware of anybody. I

[2:25:36] don't I don't have those statistics. I'm

[2:25:37] not aware.

[2:25:38] >> Um do you would you uh uh would you just

[2:25:42] uh help me understand? I I see it saying

[2:25:46] it's all that where we would allow this.

[2:25:49] Um and I only have a couple more

[2:25:50] questions. We would allow it on streets

[2:25:53] anywhere 35 and under. Is that correct?

[2:25:55] >> It's the way the law is written. A golf

[2:25:57] cart is by law cannot go over 25 miles

[2:26:01] an hour. Actually 24 or below, right?

[2:26:04] But according to the Utah state code, at

[2:26:05] least the way that I understand it,

[2:26:07] unless I'm they are allowed on any

[2:26:09] street that is 35,

[2:26:11] >> okay,

[2:26:12] >> or less

[2:26:12] >> because I envision these on most of our

[2:26:14] roads. I can't

[2:26:15] >> You wouldn't go on State Road 92 with

[2:26:17] >> Right. I can't envision it on Canyon

[2:26:19] Crest. I can't envision it on Alpine

[2:26:21] Highway. I can't envision it on those.

[2:26:24] But the other ones, I can see it. Um,

[2:26:27] uh, let me just I wrote them all down.

[2:26:30] Where the couple comments I have is I

[2:26:32] was just in Cincinnati for work and I

[2:26:34] did go to a community that I have a

[2:26:36] picture of it if you want to open it up.

[2:26:39] You don't have to though, Heidi. It's

[2:26:40] the one.

[2:26:41] >> Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. I did go to a

[2:26:44] community and I do realize that when I

[2:26:46] go to communities where these are, which

[2:26:49] I have only subconsciously been

[2:26:50] realizing, they are nice communities. I

[2:26:53] don't know if it's circular. You bring

[2:26:54] them in, they become nice or they're

[2:26:55] nice and so they bring them in. But they

[2:26:56] are nice communities. This one was a

[2:26:58] lake community. Um the reason I think

[2:27:01] the last comment, the reason I think

[2:27:03] this is good is we need to define it. So

[2:27:07] when he came to me, I had no preference,

[2:27:08] yes or no, on this. I was very impressed

[2:27:10] with Mario's research and everything he

[2:27:12] was doing. And I love that he's working

[2:27:15] through all of the uh uh details on it.

[2:27:18] I see motorcycles on our roads which I

[2:27:21] would think would have similar danger

[2:27:24] factors as well as um kids on electric.

[2:27:28] Uh I I see other type or as just a

[2:27:31] person on a bike is I guess it's just as

[2:27:32] vulnerable.

[2:27:34] >> Yeah. An an ebike has 10 times the

[2:27:36] safety hazard.

[2:27:38] >> Right. Right. What even just a normal

[2:27:39] bike, not even an ebike, uh I see uh

[2:27:42] even more danger. So, anyways, I'm in

[2:27:44] favor of this because I do think we need

[2:27:46] something in the code to codify this. I

[2:27:49] do see my neighbors using them. I do see

[2:27:51] several folks where you live using them

[2:27:53] and I think they'll be more common. Um,

[2:27:55] thank you for doing this. I'm so

[2:27:56] impressed.

[2:27:57] >> Thank you. Um, Brent,

[2:27:59] >> yeah, I have a couple comments. Um, I

[2:28:01] think I'll dispense with a history of

[2:28:02] golf carts. It's okay.

[2:28:03] >> Yeah, [laughter] that would be great.

[2:28:05] >> But I have been using them for 42 years,

[2:28:07] I I must say. So, just a couple of

[2:28:10] things. Um, I don't have any questions.

[2:28:12] I don't know if you want to keep still

[2:28:13] standing. I just have a couple of

[2:28:14] comments. First of all, it is codified.

[2:28:18] The state law prohibits golf carts in

[2:28:21] Utah absent a municipality adopting

[2:28:24] um an ordinance allowing golf carts. So,

[2:28:27] it is codified. It might not be

[2:28:28] specified in Alpine City, but golf carts

[2:28:31] are illegal to be operated on city

[2:28:33] streets in Alpine.

[2:28:34] >> That's correct.

[2:28:34] >> So, you brought that up, but just to

[2:28:36] make it clear, it is codified.

[2:28:38] >> Yeah. Um, and just because someone is

[2:28:40] ignorant of the laws, that's no excuse

[2:28:41] for them um, great violating the law.

[2:28:45] >> So, our police, I'll maybe I'll cover

[2:28:47] this in a little just a second, but our

[2:28:49] police, as you mentioned, ebikes and

[2:28:51] motorcycles, and there's plenty of

[2:28:53] things you can misuse that are legal to use on our streets. Um, but

[2:28:58] it's just one more thing the police has

[2:29:00] to enforce. and if

[2:29:04] we legalize golf carts and maybe there

[2:29:06] will be because right now we've had four

[2:29:07] residents um express their interest in

[2:29:10] golf carts and I really appreciate Mr.

[2:29:13] Jimenez your your research and

[2:29:15] everything like that.

[2:29:17] I I actually did quite a bit of research

[2:29:19] and there are six municipalities in Utah

[2:29:23] that currently authorize golf carts out

[2:29:25] of 255 in Utah. Golf carts have been

[2:29:28] around as I mentioned for quite a while.

[2:29:30] Um, two of those are very focused golf

[2:29:33] communities where I play golf quite

[2:29:34] often in Hurricane and St. George, Utah,

[2:29:37] and they weren't unanimous decisions by

[2:29:39] the city councils. Um, my main concern

[2:29:43] is safety and I think we'll have the

[2:29:45] police chief William talk about that

[2:29:47] here in just a second.

[2:29:49] Um, we can all look up and Google what

[2:29:52] the proponents for these kind of

[2:29:54] proposals

[2:29:56] utilize for or site as what they would

[2:29:59] like to see such as increased

[2:30:01] accessibility, alternative

[2:30:02] transportation, reduce traffic

[2:30:04] congestion in neighborhoods, which is

[2:30:06] why they're appropriate in some

[2:30:07] communities like the Florida community

[2:30:09] that's a retirement community. It's

[2:30:10] enclosed. It doesn't have businesses and

[2:30:15] commercial zones and things like that.

[2:30:16] That's why I think communities are

[2:30:18] different from cities in allowing golf

[2:30:21] carts.

[2:30:22] Just one website I found in particular

[2:30:24] said zero, it's a zero fatalities

[2:30:26] organization. It says golf carts are not

[2:30:28] safe for public roads because they lack

[2:30:30] the design and safety features necessary

[2:30:32] for road use. I'm not going to go

[2:30:34] through all the specifics under each

[2:30:36] category, but here are the reasons they

[2:30:37] list. limited safety features, low

[2:30:40] speeds, lack of stability, poor

[2:30:42] visibility, minimal protection for

[2:30:44] crashes, limited lighting and signaling,

[2:30:46] and they're not built for road

[2:30:48] conditions.

[2:30:49] Um,

[2:30:53] just I made a few notes here.

[2:30:58] You mentioned that golf carts are

[2:31:01] current currently being used in

[2:31:03] violation of the law, which is

[2:31:04] unfortunate.

[2:31:05] >> That's correct. I think by allowing them

[2:31:08] um and publicizing that they're allowed,

[2:31:11] I think you're probably going to have

[2:31:12] more of that. What I've seen, and this

[2:31:14] actually came up in a in the meet the

[2:31:16] candidates, if you remember the meet the

[2:31:18] candidates night two and a half years

[2:31:19] ago, one of the questions was what your

[2:31:22] what's your position on golf carts in

[2:31:24] the community? And you could tell from

[2:31:25] the tone of the question that they were

[2:31:27] against it because they've seen what

[2:31:29] I've seen, which is what you said, the

[2:31:31] 12-year-olds with six kids hanging on

[2:31:33] the outside doing that. I'm just worried

[2:31:34] that if we allow golf carts, we're going

[2:31:36] to see even a greater um incidence of

[2:31:38] that with an already stressed or not

[2:31:41] stressed but a small police force that

[2:31:45] already has a limited capacity for

[2:31:47] traffic and safety enforcement.

[2:31:51] Uh let's see what else.

[2:31:57] Oh, you cited all that safety data for

[2:31:59] how lower speeds increase safety, which

[2:32:01] I 100% agree with. Um but that's I think

[2:32:04] that's for vehicles. Um

[2:32:08] and golf carts as

[2:32:12] have to comply with the bicycle laws. So

[2:32:16] they I guess they would be signaling

[2:32:17] their stops and their left turns and

[2:32:19] right turns like a bicycle

[2:32:20] >> unless the golf carts have turn signals

[2:32:22] on.

[2:32:22] >> Right. Right.

[2:32:23] Um, another concern that we've had on

[2:32:26] the city council is damage to city parks

[2:32:28] by in inappropriate use of electronic

[2:32:30] vehicles, which could include golf

[2:32:32] carts. And, uh, we've spent thousands of

[2:32:35] dollars to repair damage to our city

[2:32:38] parks and even enclosed the baseball

[2:32:41] fields at Burgess to keep ebikes and um,

[2:32:45] any other electronic vehicles, which

[2:32:47] could be golf carts. And if we promote

[2:32:49] this and we get a lot more golf carts in

[2:32:50] the seat, I'm just worried that there's

[2:32:52] this that much more likelihood of

[2:32:54] inappropriate use that our law

[2:32:56] enforcement just isn't um staffed

[2:32:58] sufficiently to enforce.

[2:33:01] We talked about use by minors. We put

[2:33:04] out constant newsine articles, Heidi

[2:33:06] does, about about the dangers of ebikes,

[2:33:09] motorcycles. Chrissy and I both

[2:33:11] mentioned in the last Lone Peak Public

[2:33:13] Safety District meeting that we recently

[2:33:15] had incidents of trying to pull onto a

[2:33:17] street and having a kid riding an ebike

[2:33:19] on the sidewalk opposite direction, no

[2:33:21] helmet, just very very dangerous. And

[2:33:24] this would just I think would just add

[2:33:25] to that. And just one more thing, the

[2:33:28] city staff and the city and one of the

[2:33:31] drawbacks for these is the difficulty of city councils to enforce and regulate

[2:33:38] the use in an ongoing basis and I have a

[2:33:40] concern about that.

[2:33:44] Um I already talked about the existing

[2:33:46] limitations on traffic enforcement and

[2:33:48] the difficulty of enforcement of these

[2:33:50] type of things.

[2:33:53] Another concern I have is that there's

[2:34:00] no liability liability insurance

[2:34:02] requirements for golf cart use and

[2:34:04] homeowners policies generally do not

[2:34:06] cover any damage unless it's done on

[2:34:09] your personal on your own property and

[2:34:12] vehicle insurance in my online research

[2:34:15] showed that most our vehicle policies

[2:34:17] will not cover golf cart use. And I have

[2:34:19] been hit by an uninsured motor twice in

[2:34:21] my life. One was many, many years ago

[2:34:23] when I don't think uninsured motorists

[2:34:25] existed and I learned very quickly that

[2:34:27] it's very hard to collect money from an

[2:34:29] uninsured motorist and I do have a

[2:34:32] liability insurance on my golf cart.

[2:34:34] >> Great. So there is a writer on your

[2:34:35] homeowners policy.

[2:34:36] >> No sir, it's through my auto.

[2:34:38] >> Great. So for your use in Alpine?

[2:34:41] >> What's that?

[2:34:41] >> For your use of the golf cart in Alpine

[2:34:43] >> in Highland.

[2:34:44] >> Oh, you use in Highland. Okay.

[2:34:45] >> I have to take it to Highland to use it

[2:34:47] legally.

[2:34:47] >> Okay. All right. Um, the rest of my

[2:34:51] comments are would be centered around

[2:34:54] whether there's an action item put on a

[2:34:57] future agenda about what an ordinance

[2:34:59] would look like if we do decide to go

[2:35:01] that route. But in my opinion, I don't

[2:35:03] think it's it's the right thing to do.

[2:35:05] >> Thank you.

[2:35:07] >> So, um, yes, I supported I support this

[2:35:11] conversation. You know, it doesn't mean

[2:35:13] I support moving it to an action item,

[2:35:16] but I want you to know why I support it.

[2:35:18] I think I'm looking at it from the

[2:35:21] standpoint of

[2:35:23] it could make Alpine safer because it is

[2:35:26] a way of life. It will slow cars down if

[2:35:30] it's used in certain areas, which I

[2:35:32] think it would be used going to parks,

[2:35:35] you know, going to friends houses, but

[2:35:37] it wouldn't be used on our main roads.

[2:35:39] So, in those areas where we have

[2:35:40] problems with people speeding, golf

[2:35:43] carts would, by the nature of the speed

[2:35:45] of a golf cart, slow everyone down. So,

[2:35:47] I'm interested in the conversation with

[2:35:49] council to see if there's any interest

[2:35:53] in, you know, looking at Highland in the

[2:35:56] future to see what's going on in

[2:35:58] Highland. Like I think with Highland

[2:36:00] adopting this and some of our streets

[2:36:02] connecting that we should consider um

[2:36:06] are there some benefits to us in

[2:36:09] adopting a golf cart, you know,

[2:36:12] ordinance so that we can stay

[2:36:15] consistent with the streets that connect

[2:36:18] with Highland, but also what are the

[2:36:19] benefits? I think it's a little early.

[2:36:22] I'd like to see what Highland learns. I

[2:36:26] don't know exactly when their ordinance

[2:36:27] was passed, but

[2:36:29] >> May of 25.

[2:36:31] So, we're coming up on a

[2:36:33] year. Um, one question I had, is there a

[2:36:37] way for us to get more public input? Um,

[2:36:40] right now we have four families or four

[2:36:43] people that are interested. Right now, I

[2:36:45] see this as complimentary to kind of our

[2:36:48] parks master plan. Actually, I kind of

[2:36:50] see people going from park to park in

[2:36:52] their golf carts in Alpine or trail

[2:36:54] heads, but um is there a way that we

[2:36:57] could add a survey so that we could find

[2:37:00] out are residents interested and just

[2:37:03] have this conversation and get more

[2:37:05] resident feedback?

[2:37:06] >> Um [clears throat] I have just learned

[2:37:08] tonight that there is a Facebook group

[2:37:10] that has been created. I don't do

[2:37:12] Facebook, but apparently there's a

[2:37:14] Alpine Golf Card Facebook page now. So,

[2:37:16] I don't know what data we'll be able to

[2:37:18] mine from that, but that that has

[2:37:20] recently been created.

[2:37:21] >> Yeah. So, I would like to definitely get

[2:37:23] more public input. That's it.

[2:37:25] >> Okay.

[2:37:26] >> Mayor, can I just make one quick

[2:37:27] comment? So, about the survey,

[2:37:29] >> we actually have [clears throat] a

[2:37:30] survey that'll be coming out very soon

[2:37:33] for the day. Heidi,

[2:37:35] >> it's

[2:37:36] >> like very soon uh for the parks master

[2:37:39] plan and maybe we could add a question

[2:37:42] on there.

[2:37:42] >> That'd be great. as well.

[2:37:44] >> Um, first of all, I would like to

[2:37:46] acknowledge the fact that Mr. Jimenez

[2:37:48] has served our country and I just want

[2:37:50] to say thank you. Um, once a Marine,

[2:37:53] always Marine. Um, and then also I

[2:37:56] wanted to just commend you on your work

[2:37:58] and efforts on this project. Um, I did

[2:38:01] re Oh, sorry. I did reach out to all the

[2:38:04] council members of Highland City to kind

[2:38:06] of get a better understanding of how

[2:38:08] that ordinance is going in Highland and

[2:38:09] I actually got mixed reviews. Um,

[2:38:14] so I guess it's a balance between safety

[2:38:16] and convenience. And for me, I don't

[2:38:18] know that the the convenience outweighs

[2:38:21] the safety factor. Um, the only way I

[2:38:24] would maybe consider this working is

[2:38:27] maybe in our for accessibility under

[2:38:30] specific circumstances for people that

[2:38:33] need ADA compliance or um maybe in our

[2:38:37] senior housing areas. I could see that

[2:38:40] as being a viable option. Um, and I'm

[2:38:44] also interested. I did reach out to

[2:38:46] Chief Williams and asked him and I spoke

[2:38:49] with another police officer that lives

[2:38:50] in our neighborhood as well. Um, and so

[2:38:53] I'd be interested to have one after

[2:38:56] Councilwoman Hannaman just maybe Chief

[2:38:58] Williams speak to speak to his thoughts

[2:39:01] and comments on safety. So, with the

[2:39:04] senior housing areas that I'm aware of

[2:39:07] here in Alpines, um those are private

[2:39:09] roads. So, private roads, you can use

[2:39:12] golf carts by state law. You can use

[2:39:15] them by state law. You can operate them

[2:39:16] either on golf courses or private road

[2:39:19] or private property. And so, the senior

[2:39:22] housing complexes that we have like

[2:39:24] Montadella, that's a private road.

[2:39:26] They're maintaining it so they can ride

[2:39:28] within their own community. And then, um

[2:39:30] there's another area, I forget what it's

[2:39:32] called, but It's behind the senior

[2:39:34] center. It's those cottages. Those are

[2:39:36] private roads and

[2:39:37] >> which is similar to what I think Andrew

[2:39:39] and Mr. Jimenez were citing

[2:39:41] >> of those those communities. Those are

[2:39:42] private private um

[2:39:44] >> so they can that already.

[2:39:46] >> Thank you.

[2:39:46] >> Did you have anything else you want? No,

[2:39:48] that's it. Okay. Go ahead, Chris. Sorry.

[2:39:50] >> It was interesting that you um found the

[2:39:52] two cities my parents have lived in.

[2:39:54] Pleasant View is much like our city.

[2:39:55] It's up on a hill. It's in a box canyon.

[2:39:58] There's no really through roads out of

[2:40:00] there. So that kind of fit piqued my

[2:40:03] interest. Um they live in St. George,

[2:40:05] but maybe it's private roads, but um due

[2:40:08] to the demographic because it's in a

[2:40:10] senior area, it's just provides more

[2:40:12] mobility really um and more connectivity

[2:40:16] kind of. So I was very curious about it.

[2:40:19] I don't have a strong opinion and I will

[2:40:21] defer to the council at a later time.

[2:40:23] Just thank you for your wonderful

[2:40:25] presentation. And I felt like it was

[2:40:26] very thorough, easy to understand, and

[2:40:29] gave me a lot of pause to think. I

[2:40:32] didn't do all the research that Sarah

[2:40:33] does, but that's why we're a team. Sarah

[2:40:35] and Brent will do endless research and

[2:40:37] bring it towards us. And I I would like

[2:40:39] to hear also from our uh police chief.

[2:40:43] >> Police chief and res. There's one

[2:40:44] there's a couple things that I did want

[2:40:45] to add. If you guys are going to

[2:40:47] consider it, I feel like like Highland

[2:40:49] did that the age needs to go up to 18 or

[2:40:52] older. And then um they don't allow it

[2:40:54] on public streets that are more than 25

[2:40:57] miles an hour. And when I looked up on

[2:41:00] the state code, the state code does not

[2:41:02] specify a speed limit, although it says

[2:41:05] it on AI. It's not allowed on roads 25

[2:41:08] or more, but when I actually looked up

[2:41:09] the code that it was referencing, it

[2:41:10] does not have a specific speed limit. Um

[2:41:13] but I'm with, you know, I'm with

[2:41:15] Jessica. I would like to know what the

[2:41:17] public is looking at, but also I kind of

[2:41:20] would like to see what the safety record

[2:41:22] is. Chief, can you come up and kind of

[2:41:24] help us what your experience has been so

[2:41:26] far this last year, if any, because I

[2:41:29] don't know how many golf carts there are

[2:41:31] in Highland. I'm not even sure how many

[2:41:33] golf carts there are here in Alpine.

[2:41:35] >> May I may just make one closing comment.

[2:41:37] Thank you so much. I appreciate the

[2:41:38] council at least entertaining this idea.

[2:41:42] The the one question I'd like to leave

[2:41:43] the council with and perhaps maybe it's

[2:41:45] a direct question to the chief is

[2:41:50] I'm I'm trying to understand so that I

[2:41:53] can explain to the people that I'm

[2:41:54] representing here tonight. I'm trying to

[2:41:56] understand from a from a safety data or

[2:41:59] metrics perspective how Alpine city

[2:42:02] streets are any more dangerous or

[2:42:04] there's a greater chance for an accident

[2:42:06] in Alpine than there is in Highland.

[2:42:09] >> I don't think that's the thing. I do

[2:42:11] know that golf carts are allowed and

[2:42:14] legal to drive if you um comply. There

[2:42:18] are street legal golf carts. So, you can

[2:42:22] modify your golf carts to have seat

[2:42:24] belts and rearview mirrors and blinkers.

[2:42:27] And I'm trying to think what I had to do

[2:42:29] with my Razor to make it street legal.

[2:42:31] >> It's called a low-speed vehicle, Mayor.

[2:42:34] And the problem is right now is that

[2:42:36] there there is a um dysfunctional

[2:42:39] bureaucratic understanding between the

[2:42:41] language found within department of um

[2:42:44] the highway patrol language that's

[2:42:47] codified and the DMV. One says A, the

[2:42:50] other one says B. There's a difficult

[2:42:53] transition right now to try to get

[2:42:54] through registering a golf cart that

[2:42:57] meets all of the requirements of a

[2:42:59] low-speed vehicle, turn signals and

[2:43:01] everything simply because of the way

[2:43:03] that the title is titled on the golf

[2:43:05] cart.

[2:43:06] >> I did not realize that because I did

[2:43:07] have a friend years ago in Highland who

[2:43:09] did purchase a golf cart and did all

[2:43:11] that was able to get it registered.

[2:43:13] >> It's very it's a very convoluted process

[2:43:15] >> because I appreciate you getting the

[2:43:17] insurance. I think I m Thank you for

[2:43:19] doing that because I feel like it's very

[2:43:21] responsible of you. I do have that

[2:43:23] concern with I don't know if most people

[2:43:26] have gone through that. So I do feel

[2:43:28] like Brent brings up a very valid point.

[2:43:30] I think it's something that we

[2:43:31] definitely need to study more and kind

[2:43:33] of um look into. But I do appreciate all

[2:43:35] your work

[2:43:36] >> much for your time council.

[2:43:38] >> Chief, did you want to come up and just

[2:43:39] make some comments? if you can kind of

[2:43:41] enlighten us [clears throat] what your

[2:43:43] experience has been so far

[2:43:45] >> and if you've seen an increase in the

[2:43:47] use, have you seen a decrease in illegal

[2:43:50] use? You know, things like that.

[2:43:53] >> Thank you, mayor, and and thank you, Mr.

[2:43:55] Himemenz, for your presentation. I I

[2:43:56] appreciate that. Um I am not going to I brought some notes and I'm not going

[2:44:02] to go over them because council member

[2:44:03] Rumbler Rumbler um so eloquently went

[2:44:08] over just about everything that I had

[2:44:09] written down. So I appreciate that. So I

[2:44:12] was just going to echo your comments.

[2:44:14] >> Well, I think it comes from that from

[2:44:16] that perspective and that view. You

[2:44:18] know, the question the first question

[2:44:20] was asked was, you know, what have we

[2:44:22] seen in Highland? It's been about a year

[2:44:24] since they enacted that ordinance. Um,

[2:44:26] we have not seen truthfully any change

[2:44:29] in behavior in Highland. Um, it was

[2:44:31] brought to the council much like it's

[2:44:34] come here with a a handful of residents

[2:44:37] that came to Highland City Council and

[2:44:39] um and they ended up passing the

[2:44:42] ordinance to uh which I um opposed, but

[2:44:46] they they did it and they have that

[2:44:48] right to do that just like you guys do

[2:44:50] also and we enforce it the best that we

[2:44:52] can um in Highland. So, I think the the

[2:44:56] few things that I want to kind of bring

[2:44:58] up about some of the comments that were

[2:44:59] made, um, Council Member Shimuan, you mentioned that

[2:45:06] golf carts will slow the traffic down,

[2:45:08] and that's not been our um, experience

[2:45:12] that actually forces them into the

[2:45:15] oncoming l travel lanes. People don't

[2:45:17] slow down to get behind golf carts and

[2:45:19] wait for them to make their turns or

[2:45:21] wait to get out of the way. they they

[2:45:22] move into the opposite lane of travel

[2:45:24] which which actually is more dangerous

[2:45:27] than than um than you can imagine that creates a traffic hazard. So that's

[2:45:33] our our experience has been that it is

[2:45:35] not um slowed the traffic down. So,

[2:45:40] um,

[2:45:42] when

[2:45:43] Highland enacted their ordinance, before

[2:45:46] they enacted their ordinance, I was

[2:45:47] given the assignment to contact my

[2:45:49] counterparts here in Utah County as well

[2:45:51] as those or agencies that had allowed

[2:45:54] golf carts. One of those that hadn't

[2:45:56] been mentioned is Nephi. They allow golf

[2:45:58] carts as well. And the um the grassroots

[2:46:02] of this started in St. George as you can

[2:46:04] imagine and most of the ordinances and

[2:46:06] much of Highland's ordinance came from

[2:46:08] St. George's ordinance uh with many of

[2:46:10] the restrictions and what's allowed

[2:46:12] what's disallowed. I think what's

[2:46:14] important to know about St. George when

[2:46:16] I called and spoke with the chief down

[2:46:18] there the they allow their golf carts in

[2:46:20] planned developments and so these are

[2:46:24] areas that are around golf courses.

[2:46:25] These are areas that are um where you

[2:46:28] have senior living and they're on

[2:46:30] private roads. As has been mentioned

[2:46:32] before, much of the area of St. George,

[2:46:34] the golf carts are not allowed because

[2:46:36] they're not allowed on roads that are

[2:46:37] more than 25 miles an hour. And that's a

[2:46:39] good, you know, you have a lot of

[2:46:40] arterial roads and collector roads in

[2:46:42] St. George where they're not allowed to

[2:46:44] be ridden. Um

[2:46:47] so it's the the ordinances u do kind of

[2:46:52] mesh all together when you talk to most

[2:46:53] of those cities. When I spoke to the

[2:46:55] cities and my counterparts here in in um

[2:46:59] Utah County, all of them at one point or

[2:47:02] another in the last four or five years

[2:47:04] have had a discussion about golf carts

[2:47:06] and with the exception of now Highland.

[2:47:08] Um I think we're the only one in Utah

[2:47:11] County or they aren't the only ones in

[2:47:13] Utah County that enacted it. They have

[2:47:15] all elected to go away from and not

[2:47:17] allow golf carts for the reasons that

[2:47:19] were mentioned by council member Rumbler

[2:47:21] for safety reasons. Um I

[2:47:24] As was mentioned, I failed I don't I

[2:47:28] fail to see how enacting or codifying

[2:47:32] golf carts

[2:47:34] increases safety of the golf carts. It

[2:47:37] doesn't increase the protection. It

[2:47:39] doesn't increase the visibility. It

[2:47:41] doesn't increase um many of the things

[2:47:44] that have been discussed. And I just I I

[2:47:46] don't see how codifying calls would do

[2:47:48] that. So um those are just some of my

[2:47:51] thoughts initially. I'm happy to answer

[2:47:53] any questions that you might have, but I

[2:47:55] hope that kind of gives you an idea of

[2:47:57] what our experience has been with in in

[2:47:59] so far.

[2:47:59] >> Does anybody have any really quick

[2:48:01] questions for the chief?

[2:48:02] >> Yeah. Uh, thanks chief. Great thoughts.

[2:48:05] Uh, do you have um what my my question

[2:48:08] was since the Highland has been adopted

[2:48:10] and maybe since you've spoken with the

[2:48:12] St. George folks because everyone's

[2:48:14] concerned about safety, are there

[2:48:17] wrecks? Are have there been like a lot

[2:48:18] of tragedies or not really? So, the

[2:48:21] incidents that we do see, and we had one

[2:48:23] happen about 18 months ago right here in

[2:48:26] Alpine, I think it was like here at 200

[2:48:27] North in Maine or something like that

[2:48:28] where we had uh some individuals that

[2:48:31] were uh injured while operating a golf

[2:48:34] cart. And so, there are accidents that

[2:48:36] happened. Now, that was just a singular

[2:48:38] my recollection it was just involved,

[2:48:40] >> you know, these are to know

[2:48:42] >> another I don't know if it involved

[2:48:43] another car. Chief, do you remember?

[2:48:46] >> Do you remember, Chief? Was he

[2:48:48] >> I do remember that we ended up taking a

[2:48:49] couple of individuals to the hospital

[2:48:51] that were operating.

[2:48:52] >> Thank you for doing that important work.

[2:48:53] Do you remember if it was an adult or

[2:48:55] was it adult?

[2:48:55] >> No, they were juveniles.

[2:48:56] >> Juveniles.

[2:48:57] >> Yeah. That were operating the golf cart.

[2:48:59] >> Okay. Since Highland has in or made

[2:49:02] their ordinance or St. George, the other

[2:49:04] Ephraim that you know of, do you know if

[2:49:07] they have had

[2:49:08] >> uh what I'm getting at is like I have to

[2:49:12] try new things all the time and I don't

[2:49:13] really know if they are good, but time

[2:49:16] always tells. It always kind of proves

[2:49:18] that was a terrible decision or it was a

[2:49:20] good decision and I try to pivot as

[2:49:21] quick as I can. So I'm trying to learn

[2:49:24] if Highland in the last year since it's

[2:49:26] been legalized if you have any data on

[2:49:29] how many wrecks we've had with golf

[2:49:31] carts.

[2:49:32] >> We I don't have to my recollection and

[2:49:35] I'm sure I would have heard about it

[2:49:37] that we have not had an accident that

[2:49:39] has involved a golf cart in the last 12

[2:49:41] months. And so to answer your question,

[2:49:44] no. in Highland. We've not experienced

[2:49:46] that. I've seen news reports and heard

[2:49:48] from other uh counterparts across the

[2:49:51] state and other jurisdictions. They have

[2:49:54] had incidents involving golf carts.

[2:49:56] >> No, we don't want that.

[2:49:58] >> Has it decrease the instances of

[2:49:59] juveniles driving golf carts?

[2:50:01] >> That's a great question.

[2:50:02] >> No, we haven't seen a change in

[2:50:04] behavior.

[2:50:05] >> So, not an increase, but not a decrease

[2:50:08] either then. Correct.

[2:50:10] >> Correct. And

[2:50:10] >> again I'll I'll just suppose again this

[2:50:12] is just a supposition that once they're

[2:50:14] legal there'll be great more incidents

[2:50:16] of of that happening now it's bound to

[2:50:19] happen.

[2:50:20] >> Now just last to wrap up the the

[2:50:22] clarification is that in this ordinance

[2:50:25] we would assuming well which is my next

[2:50:28] question in this ordinance we would not

[2:50:30] allow anyone older I'm sorry younger

[2:50:33] than 18 to operate a golf cart. So, we

[2:50:37] would make it illegal assuming we made

[2:50:40] an ordinance that's in there now. Uh,

[2:50:43] >> but it's already illegal. So, it's I

[2:50:45] mean,

[2:50:46] >> well, right, but

[2:50:46] >> they're still going to do it. That's the

[2:50:48] problem.

[2:50:48] >> That's already in state code. So,

[2:50:50] >> okay. Uh,

[2:50:52] >> so it is codified. It's illegal to ride

[2:50:54] drive.

[2:50:55] >> So, final question. Final question to

[2:50:56] It's more to the council. Thank you,

[2:50:58] Chief. Amazing work. And thank you for

[2:50:59] the help at uh um the middle school

[2:51:02] today at Massive. Um, would you be open

[2:51:07] counsel for him to write up something

[2:51:10] for you to look at or do you not want to

[2:51:12] even look at something?

[2:51:26] But we've got right now.

[2:51:38] » Okay. So, should

[2:51:39] >> I did have one quick question?

[2:51:42] >> I would like to hear more from the

[2:51:44] public first.

[2:51:45] >> Okay.

[2:51:47] >> So, I think yeah, we'll need to wait and

[2:51:48] see.

[2:51:49] >> Want to hear more on the public?

[2:51:50] probably with the survey that's going on

[2:51:52] with the um parks master plan. Um maybe

[2:51:56] get preliminary information from that

[2:51:58] and then um I think we this is a good

[2:52:00] template if they're going to move

[2:52:02] forward and then you guys can decide

[2:52:03] whether you want to vote for against it.

[2:52:05] Does anybody else have a question for

[2:52:06] the chief? Yes.

[2:52:07] >> Oh, not for the chief. I just

[2:52:08] >> for the just for the chief.

[2:52:10] >> I have a question for the chief. I do.

[2:52:11] >> Oh, yeah. And so does Sarah. Okay, go

[2:52:13] ahead. Okay, let's go and then you can

[2:52:15] >> I guess maybe you can tell me if I need

[2:52:16] to just go home and do my own research,

[2:52:18] but like razors are allowed are street

[2:52:20] legal and are allowed on city streets.

[2:52:22] >> So you're talking about the sidebyside

[2:52:24] razors like the canams. So if they are

[2:52:27] registered with the state and they have

[2:52:30] all the safety equipment, they are

[2:52:32] legal.

[2:52:33] >> So you have to have insurance and you

[2:52:34] have to have

[2:52:35] >> just like just like a car. They've got

[2:52:36] to have seat belts, turn signals,

[2:52:38] headlights, tail lights, brake lights,

[2:52:40] everything that you would have in your

[2:52:41] regular vehicle. And it if it does have

[2:52:44] a license plate on it, we as officers

[2:52:46] assume that all of that's been taken

[2:52:48] care of.

[2:52:49] >> And while they don't have airbags, they

[2:52:50] do have significant rollover in accident

[2:52:52] protection.

[2:52:53] >> Yeah, that was my follow-up question is

[2:52:55] like can you speak to the the difference

[2:52:57] in safety or um regulations for golfers

[2:53:01] versus those?

[2:53:02] >> Yeah. So, the there are oxy we're we're

[2:53:06] dealing with a combustion engine which m

[2:53:08] can maintain higher rates of speed. One

[2:53:10] of the biggest um issues with the golf

[2:53:14] carts is they impede traffic and they're

[2:53:18] not um they they can't maintain the flow

[2:53:20] of traffic and so they they they impede

[2:53:23] traffic and and and again we we talked

[2:53:25] about vehicles going around them into

[2:53:26] the opposite lane of travel. The state

[2:53:29] and in its wisdom has this was probably

[2:53:32] some two decades ago that they started

[2:53:34] to allow those to be registered. Um

[2:53:39] the difference Again, the difference

[2:53:40] being we're talking about a combustion

[2:53:42] engine that can keep with the flow of

[2:53:43] traffic and that does have additional

[2:53:45] safety features that most golf carts do

[2:53:47] not.

[2:53:49] >> We had one for a hot second and when we

[2:53:52] did um you had to get all the

[2:53:54] conversions done um and then when you

[2:53:57] get licensed they check they have a

[2:53:59] checklist of all the things that you

[2:54:00] need and you need proof of insurance on

[2:54:02] top of it.

[2:54:03] >> And so it would be like you're

[2:54:05] registering a car.

[2:54:07] >> Yeah. I guess I guess I ask that just

[2:54:09] because like with the sirons and those

[2:54:11] and golf carts like I'm trying to see

[2:54:13] like if we allow some why don't we allow

[2:54:16] but I I I get your point that different

[2:54:19] engines different safety features that

[2:54:21] sort of thing.

[2:54:23] Um, sorry. I'm thinking of one specific

[2:54:26] community member and I don't want to

[2:54:28] tattle that they go around with a golf

[2:54:30] cart because they have a a child that is

[2:54:32] ADA issues and so in our compilation and

[2:54:37] research, could we just see if there's a

[2:54:39] way to be flexible for those that have

[2:54:41] special needs? That's my only request.

[2:54:43] And if you had any insight to share on

[2:54:45] that, you know that I have to be careful

[2:54:48] how I answer this. Um, each officer has

[2:54:50] their discretion when they

[2:54:53] contact an individual that might be

[2:54:55] violating a traffic law. We'll just put

[2:54:57] it that way. Um most times um they can

[2:55:03] they're better decision makers than we

[2:55:04] give them credit for sometimes and

[2:55:06] sometimes that's allowed and

[2:55:08] circumstances are as such to to allow

[2:55:11] that person to either get the vehicle

[2:55:14] home or continue what they're doing as

[2:55:16] long as it's within a short time frame

[2:55:19] or time period. You know, obviously

[2:55:21] during Alpine days, we just turn a blind

[2:55:24] eye because they're everywhere and it's,

[2:55:26] you know, we're we're in a community

[2:55:27] event and so it's it's not something

[2:55:29] that we're really worried about then.

[2:55:34] Yeah. I hope that

[2:55:35] >> Thank you. So, you're saying that we use

[2:55:36] discretion as circumstances allow.

[2:55:38] >> Correct.

[2:55:38] >> I appreciate that. Thank you,

[2:55:42] >> Mayor. Um, one thing I just learned in

[2:55:44] the last couple days, uh, HP 381,

[2:55:49] uh, takes effect, I think part of it May

[2:55:51] 6th and then part of it in 2027.

[2:55:54] >> This the ebike

[2:55:55] >> with ebikes, more regulations

[2:55:58] requiring helmets and a bunch of

[2:56:00] different things. And even a

[2:56:01] certification, I think that's the 2027,

[2:56:04] >> right? We work with Representative

[2:56:05] Cutler on this bill and it didn't go as

[2:56:07] far as we'd like, but it we're taking us

[2:56:09] a bite at the apple. We're trying to eat

[2:56:11] this elephant. you guys know the

[2:56:13] problems that we have with with ebikes

[2:56:15] and I'm pretty quiet.

[2:56:19] >> So, since I'm the petitioner on this,

[2:56:21] um, is there any direction you can give

[2:56:24] me or anyone of what steps you'd like to

[2:56:27] take, if any, for moving forward?

[2:56:30] >> So, I believe we heard that we want more

[2:56:33] >> public

[2:56:35] that. Is there anything else anyone

[2:56:36] wants that would be helpful or or it can

[2:56:41] it doesn't you don't have to if it's

[2:56:42] just plain no but I'll get I'll try to

[2:56:45] get more public input

[2:56:46] >> Sarah or Chrissy or Brent

[2:56:48] >> would you like anything

[2:56:49] >> nothing else I I in the email I sent to

[2:56:51] you to kind of this

[2:56:53] >> Thank you. I do have some suggestions on

[2:56:56] the ordinance if there's an appetite for

[2:56:58] this. I don't I would I

[2:57:00] >> something would be significantly have be

[2:57:03] there' have to be a significant element

[2:57:05] that I'm not considering that would make

[2:57:06] me change my mind. I'm in line with what

[2:57:08] the police

[2:57:09] >> supply is like gone and have no access

[2:57:12] [laughter] have no access to petroleum.

[2:57:14] That's

[2:57:15] >> I love golf carts. I love to golf play

[2:57:16] golf and I love to run on the

[2:57:19] >> So I can get some public input. Is there

[2:57:20] anything else from Sarah or Chrissy or

[2:57:22] the mayor or staff?

[2:57:24] >> So, yeah, the direction would be I don't

[2:57:26] want you specifically to get public

[2:57:27] input. I want it from a third party.

[2:57:31] >> That's we want the survey.

[2:57:33] >> And can I ask that's actually my

[2:57:34] question. Could I get you to email me

[2:57:36] really what you want? What information

[2:57:38] would help you make this decision? Can't

[2:57:40] be just do you want golf carts? You

[2:57:43] know, it has to be like what would help

[2:57:46] you make a decision. Okay, so kind of

[2:57:48] give think about that. so that we can

[2:57:50] ask the right question to get the

[2:57:52] information you need. Okay.

[2:57:54] >> Maybe something alongside considering

[2:57:56] the safety considering the safety issues

[2:57:59] of

[2:58:00] >> Okay, that's totally

[2:58:02] >> You can't just say, "Do you want Are you

[2:58:03] okay with golf carts?" Because they

[2:58:04] don't understand. No one's going to look

[2:58:07] at that.

[2:58:07] >> No, I think it'll have to be one

[2:58:09] question. I think it'll be a series, you

[2:58:10] know, but I think we'll have to think

[2:58:12] about it. Yes, we'll see.

[2:58:13] >> Heidi, do you know when you need that by

[2:58:15] just so you

[2:58:17] >> I would for Heidi I would probably say

[2:58:20] tomorrow if possible because then she

[2:58:22] has to kind of

[2:58:23] >> retool it, pull it together and then get

[2:58:25] it to our consultant.

[2:58:26] >> Is that a fair step for everyone?

[2:58:29] >> So this is not

[2:58:32] >> I don't want this to sound like it's

[2:58:33] reflective of my op my position on on

[2:58:35] the on the topic, but no, just

[2:58:37] gathering.

[2:58:38] >> You know what? So Kaden and um Heidi,

[2:58:41] you guys know what we want. If you guys

[2:58:43] can work on some questions, I I would

[2:58:46] much rather you guys work it than any

[2:58:47] because everyone kind of has an opinion.

[2:58:52] >> How does it fit with a a park master

[2:58:54] plan survey?

[2:58:55] >> It doesn't, but it's a way for us to get

[2:58:58] information. I guess we could do

[2:58:59] >> I don't want to have a mixed message of

[2:59:00] we're going to have golf carts in parks

[2:59:02] because that's what

[2:59:03] >> I don't know if I don't know if we want

[2:59:05] to dilute

[2:59:06] >> like we could throw in a lot of things

[2:59:08] in there.

[2:59:08] >> So I guess maybe what we can do

[2:59:10] >> in favor of adding master plan

[2:59:12] >> write a survey regarding that maybe you

[2:59:16] know just a little maybe three to five

[2:59:18] question survey and we can put it out on

[2:59:20] social media but let's take our time.

[2:59:22] Let's not rush it. Let's make sure that

[2:59:24] um the questions are um will be

[2:59:27] statistically sound. I don't want any

[2:59:29] leading questions. They have to be very

[2:59:32] I know who

[2:59:33] >> but they have to be

[2:59:34] >> they have to be uh

[2:59:36] >> comprehensive.

[2:59:38] >> They do. That's why I'm saying let's

[2:59:39] have three to five questions and they'll

[2:59:41] it'll be a chain of you know

[2:59:43] >> we're not going to do it in

[2:59:44] >> the longer the questions the less likely

[2:59:46] people will finish it. So I'm opposed.

[2:59:48] >> Three to five questions.

[2:59:51] >> Okay. But not in the parks master plan

[2:59:52] survey.

[2:59:53] >> So between you and Kaden,

[2:59:54] >> everyone else stay out of it. They are

[2:59:56] going to do it. They know they know the

[2:59:58] information that we need and want is you

[3:00:01] know what does our public think about

[3:00:03] that and what is their safety concern?

[3:00:04] Whatever it may be, they will work on

[3:00:07] it.

[3:00:07] >> Okay.

[3:00:08] >> Um they have resources other cities

[3:00:10] mainly. [laughter]

[3:00:12] Well, based on what you find out, feel

[3:00:13] free to send us the

[3:00:15] >> mayor. I'd like to make a motion to

[3:00:16] close the meeting and table the

[3:00:18] >> discussion. Considering it's 9:00,

[3:00:21] >> we have to have the budget.

[3:00:22] >> I make a motion.

[3:00:23] >> Any seconds?

[3:00:24] >> There's a mo There's a motion to close

[3:00:26] the meeting.

[3:00:26] >> You mean to adjourn the meeting or to

[3:00:28] close the meeting?

[3:00:29] >> No, she wants to.

[3:00:29] >> What's the difference? Oh, adjourn. Do

[3:00:32] we have to go to close session?

[3:00:33] >> If you go into a closed meeting, that's

[3:00:34] different from adjourning. You mean

[3:00:36] adjourn the meeting?

[3:00:37] >> Well, are we going to close session

[3:00:39] tonight?

[3:00:39] >> No. Okay, then adjourn the meeting. I

[3:00:41] >> think we are.

[3:00:43] >> Yeah, we're going the closest.

[3:00:44] >> If you want that.

[3:00:45] >> Oh, goodness.

[3:00:48] >> There are like three land issues.

[3:00:50] >> Yeah, we got to wait until we get a

[3:00:51] proposal.

[3:00:51] >> All right. Okay. I make a motion. I'm

[3:00:53] going to withdraw the motion. I make a

[3:00:55] motion to uh end the public portion of

[3:00:58] the meeting by 9:30.

[3:01:00] Any seconds?

[3:01:02] >> Is there a second?

[3:01:04] >> You think we can do it in 27 minutes?

[3:01:06] >> Is there a second? Okay, it's been moved

[3:01:08] and seconded to um prolong the meeting

[3:01:11] till 9:30 tonight. Let's proceed with

[3:01:14] the roll call vote.

[3:01:15] >> The public portion of the meeting.

[3:01:17] >> Um Andrew Young, no.

[3:01:20] >> Brent Ramble, yes.

[3:01:21] >> Jessica Cassian, no.

[3:01:23] >> Senator Blackwell, yes.

[3:01:25] >> Chrissy Hanaman, yes.

[3:01:26] >> Okay, motion passes. Let's move on to

[3:01:28] budget overview.

[3:01:31] >> The golf cart took much longer than I

[3:01:33] thought it would. It did.

[3:01:34] Okay. So, wanted to just go over kind of

[3:01:37] some highlights of this upcoming budget.

[3:01:41] Um, first like to talk about the revenue

[3:01:44] projections. Um, the first one, one of

[3:01:46] our main two is property tax. Um, I

[3:01:49] included some information in here uh for

[3:01:52] the last six years, I guess, just to

[3:01:55] kind of show you what increase in

[3:01:58] property tax revenue we have received.

[3:02:00] And then also I I think this historical

[3:02:02] property tax data graph is kind of

[3:02:05] interesting showing how values are going

[3:02:08] up but our our rate is going down and

[3:02:11] going down quite a bit but you pay the

[3:02:14] same because that's how our system

[3:02:16] works.

[3:02:17] Um so what we're anticipating is about

[3:02:21] an additional 45 uh,000 in added

[3:02:25] property tax revenue. um that would be

[3:02:28] consistent with what we've seen with

[3:02:30] kind of the number of homes that are

[3:02:32] being built right now. Um so there is

[3:02:35] not a property tax increase proposed in

[3:02:38] this budget. Uh sales tax uh revenue uh

[3:02:43] currently we just got our distribution

[3:02:45] last week. So that's the eighth one of

[3:02:47] the budget year. We have four more left.

[3:02:50] Um, right now we're 5.35%

[3:02:55] uh in the positive year-over-year.

[3:02:59] Um, we for this current budget year, we

[3:03:02] budgeted 2.1 million. Um, FY25 actual

[3:03:08] was 2.2.

[3:03:10] You know, you get worried it's up and

[3:03:12] down. One month it's negative. So, we've

[3:03:14] kind of kept that relatively flat.

[3:03:18] Um,

[3:03:20] for this budget year, um, based on the

[3:03:23] last couple years, we're comfortable

[3:03:26] with an increase of 50,000 in our

[3:03:29] budget, which we should meet that um,

[3:03:31] based on the past trends. Um, but I I'm

[3:03:36] not too comfortable getting super

[3:03:37] aggressive in that area with increases,

[3:03:40] but um, that should be attainable.

[3:03:44] um park tax, uh it really follows the

[3:03:48] sales tax, but

[3:03:50] it's not one we're relying on for

[3:03:53] general operations or anything. So, I

[3:03:55] don't really see a harm in just leaving

[3:03:56] it flat at 100,000. And if 110 comes in

[3:04:00] or 15 or whatever, um unless we have

[3:04:03] some big project or decide to bond

[3:04:05] against uh park tax,

[3:04:09] um that one's not critical. It can kind

[3:04:12] of go up or down. Uh these next three

[3:04:16] are all restricted for roads and they're

[3:04:19] all separate line items in our financial

[3:04:22] report, but the funds are in the same

[3:04:24] fund. And so that's why the last bullet

[3:04:27] point of each

[3:04:29] um of these three sections, class C,

[3:04:31] mass transit, and public transit, uh

[3:04:34] that that fund balance is the same. Um,

[3:04:37] but we

[3:04:39] anticipate like a final revenue of about

[3:04:42] 550,000 this year. Um,

[3:04:46] again, it's gas tax. Gas prices are up.

[3:04:50] It could go down. So, we're we're

[3:04:54] recommending to just hold that flat at

[3:04:56] 525,000.

[3:04:58] Um, same with uh Mass Transit and the

[3:05:03] Pike Transit at 195 and

[3:05:08] 80,000.

[3:05:10] Um, [clears throat and cough] some other

[3:05:12] general fund items.

[3:05:15] Uh, Lone Peak Public Safety District, we

[3:05:17] went over that in quite a bit of detail.

[3:05:20] Um, just explain these bullet points,

[3:05:23] make sure there's no confusion. Um,

[3:05:25] we'll see a 14.4% 4% increase or 455,000

[3:05:31] and some change uh for this year. Um a

[3:05:35] lot of that's due to the change in the

[3:05:36] formula and then a uh a few other things

[3:05:39] like an added position and and some

[3:05:42] other things like that. Um this that

[3:05:45] increase and that percent does not

[3:05:47] account for the 50% that we'll get back

[3:05:49] for this coming budget year. But to plan

[3:05:54] for future, I'm putting that number in

[3:05:56] there so we know what we're expecting in

[3:05:58] the future year plus any increase.

[3:06:02] Um, so we'll based on the budget the way

[3:06:04] it was approved and there will be some

[3:06:06] little tweaks I'm sure uh the city would

[3:06:09] be receiving about uh just over 140,000

[3:06:12] back from the district uh for that 50%

[3:06:15] step in

[3:06:17] um wage increases. The city's never done

[3:06:20] had an independent wage study done to my

[3:06:24] knowledge. Um there's a firm that uh

[3:06:27] does this for a lot of the cities and so

[3:06:31] I talked to the mayor. We paired some

[3:06:34] things off of this and that's that's in

[3:06:38] uh progress. So we don't have it yet,

[3:06:41] but it's it's uh coming. So, what I put

[3:06:44] in, I just followed what we did for the

[3:06:46] public safety and put 5% in just for um

[3:06:50] having a draft budget and having some number in there and then that that

[3:06:55] can be that can be

[3:06:57] >> you know when you'll get the results of

[3:06:58] the wage study back.

[3:06:59] >> It's honestly it's probably about the

[3:07:01] end of the month before we'll get it.

[3:07:04] >> Are we asking questions about things as

[3:07:06] they come up?

[3:07:08] >> I'm sorry.

[3:07:08] >> Are we asking questions about things as

[3:07:10] he brings them up?

[3:07:11] >> No, let's have them go up. I was just

[3:07:12] curious. No, we'll wait till then.

[3:07:15] >> Okay. Um I'll keep this going. Okay. Uh

[3:07:19] staffing.

[3:07:21] Um

[3:07:23] I said there'd be more information on

[3:07:25] this. So, if I can just explain my train

[3:07:27] of thought here. So, about three years

[3:07:30] ago, we went and created it was a new

[3:07:35] position, but it wasn't. We had a

[3:07:36] planner but we uh made the decision to

[3:07:39] add responsibilities and and have that

[3:07:42] as the assistant uh city administrator.

[3:07:45] Some of the reasons were to take some of

[3:07:47] the responsibilities um from me

[3:07:51] um because everything's really stretched

[3:07:54] and then uh training for the future. So

[3:07:57] Ryan was the first one in that position.

[3:07:59] It worked out that our planner left and

[3:08:02] went to uh Saratoga Springs. We

[3:08:05] advertised this position, hired Ryan.

[3:08:09] So after three years of Ryan being in

[3:08:12] that position and having those

[3:08:13] responsibilities,

[3:08:16] his his primary role was planning and

[3:08:18] zoning because it took up that much

[3:08:21] time. And so he never really got to

[3:08:24] learn the other side of uh operating the

[3:08:28] city. there were little things here,

[3:08:29] there, and different things, and it's it

[3:08:33] was more of a learn by example situation

[3:08:36] rather than hands-on learning, which I

[3:08:39] think's really needed. So,

[3:08:42] um,

[3:08:43] so Ryan left

[3:08:46] and I learned firsthand how much time

[3:08:49] planning and zoning really does take.

[3:08:51] And I didn't get the full gamut because

[3:08:53] Don took some things. uh he volunteered

[3:08:57] to take some things on like uh certain

[3:09:00] permits and different things like that.

[3:09:03] And so I didn't even have to deal with

[3:09:04] all of it, but I was

[3:09:07] it it brought a real life situation to

[3:09:10] me of how much time the planning and

[3:09:12] zoning takes even though we're not like

[3:09:13] a high growth city.

[3:09:16] Um, so the second thing that was kind of

[3:09:18] a reality check for me was, uh, in our

[3:09:21] April,

[3:09:23] uh, TSSD board meeting, um, Rich

[3:09:25] Mickelson, the district manager down

[3:09:27] there, talked about,

[3:09:30] um,

[3:09:32] kind of in the different departments

[3:09:33] that he has, how he, you know, if

[3:09:36] somebody, like if the head person in

[3:09:39] that department retired, how things

[3:09:41] would work, he had a plan for that.

[3:09:43] said, "The one we don't have a plan for

[3:09:45] is for me." Um, he said, "If I retire,

[3:09:48] if something happened to me," and he's a

[3:09:51] very smart guy, by the way, um, the

[3:09:55] district would be left in kind of a bad

[3:09:58] situation. And so, in this current

[3:10:00] budget year, he's proposing

[3:10:03] uh, an assistant district manager um, to

[3:10:06] learn that role and kind of have a

[3:10:09] succession plan.

[3:10:12] Um, and so as I thought about this, I

[3:10:15] talked to the mayor. Um, I think

[3:10:18] something that we'd like the council to

[3:10:21] consider, I I would for sure is to I

[3:10:25] know we just hired Ryan to fill Ryan's

[3:10:27] position. And I I just talked to Kaden

[3:10:29] about this today, but um I feel like if

[3:10:33] we hired an entry level planner, and it

[3:10:36] could even be a situation where we hired

[3:10:38] an intern that was almost finished with

[3:10:40] school that worked into a full-time

[3:10:43] position that they could deal with the

[3:10:46] more menial tasks of planning and

[3:10:49] zoning, all the fence questions, all the

[3:10:52] setback questions, the height question,

[3:10:54] all the different things, plus

[3:10:56] um have more uh staff time to work on a

[3:11:00] lot of the ordinances that the council

[3:11:02] has asked for. Um and I I had a Chrissy

[3:11:07] asked for a meeting today just to score

[3:11:08] some things on the agenda and that and I

[3:11:12] said don't do not take this as any kind

[3:11:14] of knock on the council, but this

[3:11:17] council has asked for a lot more than a

[3:11:19] lot of past councils and so it it all

[3:11:22] takes time and we're willing to do it.

[3:11:25] just takes time and so to do it well

[3:11:28] and do it effectively and produce what

[3:11:30] you want uh requires more manh hours. Um

[3:11:36] >> it's the older city councilors asking

[3:11:38] for all the time. The new ones don't.

[3:11:40] This is you guys.

[3:11:41] >> We we don't we don't do anything. We are

[3:11:43] small time.

[3:11:45] >> Like I said, that is that is not a knock

[3:11:47] whatsoever.

[3:11:48] >> I'm joking.

[3:11:49] >> It's just reality.

[3:11:50] >> No. If you want more information, it

[3:11:52] just requires requires more time.

[3:11:55] Um so and then

[3:11:58] um I think in a small city and I haven't

[3:12:02] worked in a large city. I've worked with

[3:12:03] some large larger cities on different

[3:12:06] things. Um but I think with wearing many

[3:12:09] hats and having many responsibilities

[3:12:12] and the breadth of everything you have

[3:12:14] to take care of uh it's it's

[3:12:18] challenging. Um, and

[3:12:22] I've I've said since the day I accept

[3:12:25] the job as city administrator, I'm

[3:12:28] worried about the future and having

[3:12:30] everything, you know, flow and and and

[3:12:35] uh just have the city be able to operate

[3:12:37] well

[3:12:39] um throughout time. So, I feel like the

[3:12:42] cheapest way to do this would be this

[3:12:46] planner one or entry level planner. um

[3:12:49] so that Kaden could be exposed to um

[3:12:53] I've been very impressed with Kaden for

[3:12:55] the last three or four weeks, whatever

[3:12:57] it is, and he's got a lot of

[3:12:59] capabilities and I'm sure there's a lot

[3:13:02] of things that he'll be able to do much

[3:13:03] better than I can. Um the youth, the

[3:13:06] younger people, and I'm not somebody

[3:13:09] said he's I can't remember the kind. It

[3:13:11] might have been

[3:13:13] he's not that young, but he's younger

[3:13:15] than I am. So, um, I feel like this

[3:13:18] would be a a way to address that

[3:13:20] situation and and address a lot of the

[3:13:24] things that the council, you know, has

[3:13:26] asked us to look at. So, I'd ask you to

[3:13:28] consider that.

[3:13:31] Um,

[3:13:34] okay. Um,

[3:13:36] on the insurance, uh, it came back with

[3:13:39] medical at 7.7%, dental at 3.9.

[3:13:44] Uh, there's a 2.6 7% increase from on

[3:13:47] our garbage contract

[3:13:49] and we're we'll be doing our little

[3:13:52] analysis on that to see if we need to

[3:13:54] raise rates.

[3:13:56] Um projects we have our typical street

[3:14:00] maintenance. A lot of the things we've

[3:14:01] already talked about the fire station.

[3:14:03] Um I kind of outlined here and it this

[3:14:06] is rounded numbers. The number that came

[3:14:08] back in the estimate that was at council

[3:14:11] maybe six weeks ago was like 5.8 eight

[3:14:14] or nine, something like that. I just

[3:14:15] rounded it to six for now. Um, they're

[3:14:18] working on uh getting bids to get us to

[3:14:20] a guaranteed maximum price and then

[3:14:23] we'll be able to kind of uh hone in on

[3:14:26] that number. Um, we have worked with

[3:14:29] Zans Bank or Zans Public Finance. Um, we

[3:14:33] had them do a performant I can share

[3:14:35] with council on a 20-year sales tax

[3:14:38] bond. Um

[3:14:41] uh the payment's about 150,000 a year,

[3:14:44] but we have to commit a little more than

[3:14:46] that of our sales tax money. Um it's

[3:14:50] like 1.2 times or something like that. I

[3:14:52] can't remember the exact number off the

[3:14:54] top of my head.

[3:14:56] Um which, uh there's roughly 2,850

[3:15:01] homes. That's about $4.40 40 cents a

[3:15:04] month um per home if you were just

[3:15:07] analyzing it that way. Um we did have

[3:15:12] more money in the past couple years for

[3:15:15] maintenance of city open spaces. This

[3:15:17] kind of um started with our former

[3:15:20] Councilman Kelly Law. Uh last year

[3:15:25] Troy made some adjustments and things

[3:15:27] and we ended up doing we thought we'd be

[3:15:29] contracting for this. he ended up being

[3:15:32] able to take care of of a lot of this

[3:15:34] inhouse. There's some things I think

[3:15:36] that need to be addressed. Um, so I cut

[3:15:40] that from like 60,000 to 20,000, but I

[3:15:43] think I upped the tree trimming budget

[3:15:47] that we have by about 20,000 too because

[3:15:50] >> we've started to do some different

[3:15:51] things in parks which I think will make

[3:15:53] our trees healthier and be good in the

[3:15:56] long run.

[3:15:58] um three falls landslide mitigation.

[3:16:01] We're going to try to get this going for

[3:16:03] this within this budget year. It's very

[3:16:05] dry, so it's not like a super big

[3:16:07] concern, but it is something that we

[3:16:09] need to address.

[3:16:12] Uh we talked in our retreat a little bit

[3:16:15] about park tax priorities and I think as

[3:16:18] we flesh out these projects, we'll see

[3:16:20] where those priorities fall.

[3:16:23] Um, and then also more about security

[3:16:26] cameras. Um, I talked with at the

[3:16:29] conference last week I talked to um,

[3:16:33] uh, guy that I didn't think work for

[3:16:35] Centric anymore, but I guess he works

[3:16:37] for our IT company and Centricom, and

[3:16:41] he's like, I'm still their top salesman.

[3:16:44] I'll get you pricing for internet. So,

[3:16:47] that is in the works.

[3:16:49] Uh, the projects from the council

[3:16:51] retreat. I just copied into here. Um, we

[3:16:55] have some more work to do on those and then the council asks for like a way

[3:17:00] to kind of a matrix to prior prioritize

[3:17:02] that. I've got a um, thanks to Chad GPT,

[3:17:07] I have a form. It's like a spreadsheet

[3:17:10] started that will help with that. It

[3:17:13] does the way I've got it set up right

[3:17:16] now and I'm I was working on this today

[3:17:18] and didn't quite get it finished, but

[3:17:21] there's five different areas uh like

[3:17:24] cost, council priority, staff priority,

[3:17:30] quality of life, and there's one other I

[3:17:32] can't remember what it is, but then

[3:17:33] they're kind of weighted.

[3:17:36] And if if you disagree with the waiting,

[3:17:39] there's no offense taken. Um,

[3:17:42] >> how do we do this if we're not going to

[3:17:43] meet again until we're adopting the

[3:17:45] tenative budget? Because now like in all

[3:17:48] of these things that you're mentioning,

[3:17:50] we can't talk as a council until the

[3:17:53] tenant and and our next thing is the

[3:17:55] tenative budget. So you'll be able to

[3:17:58] talk to each other. But what I proposed

[3:17:59] in the the calendar

[3:18:01] >> I mean that's a lot of I mean

[3:18:02] >> call and finish.

[3:18:05] >> Yeah.

[3:18:05] >> What I proposed in the calendar is that

[3:18:09] uh over the next couple of weeks that we

[3:18:12] be able to meet one onone two onone.

[3:18:15] I'll get Kaden in there as well and go

[3:18:18] through these things. It is the tenative

[3:18:19] budget so that's not the final budget.

[3:18:22] So that means that there's another six

[3:18:23] weeks almost before the final budget has

[3:18:26] to be adopted.

[3:18:28] >> So why don't we push the tenative budget

[3:18:30] one more?

[3:18:31] >> We can't because it's required to be

[3:18:33] adopted by state law.

[3:18:34] >> Okay.

[3:18:35] >> But on your first

[3:18:38] I do think we need to have a work

[3:18:40] session on this

[3:18:41] >> and we can schedule a special work

[3:18:42] session too.

[3:18:43] >> Do need to do that with us and kind of

[3:18:45] hash it out. Um

[3:18:48] >> okay. So obvious just so that you can

[3:18:50] have the discussions. Obviously the

[3:18:52] decisions aren't going to be made until

[3:18:53] we have the official city council

[3:18:55] meeting.

[3:18:56] >> The issue is scheduling and then u my

[3:18:59] concern is if we have a work session and

[3:19:01] then we go into a long meeting. It's

[3:19:03] just a really long night and how

[3:19:05] effective are we in what we're doing. So

[3:19:07] we'll try to figure out scheduling on

[3:19:09] that and see how [clears throat] to make

[3:19:10] that work. But I do think we need a

[3:19:12] separate work session on the budget.

[3:19:14] >> Yeah. And I agree. And I mean this this

[3:19:16] is going to sound like an excuse, but

[3:19:18] the last three budget years we've had a

[3:19:20] major position

[3:19:22] >> that we had to fill.

[3:19:24] >> And it's made it very challenging to try

[3:19:27] to pull everything together with all the

[3:19:29] pressures of either onboarding someone

[3:19:31] with nobody really there to help them

[3:19:34] besides me for a lot of it. Anyway, we

[3:19:38] hope that doesn't happen again next

[3:19:40] year.

[3:19:41] Well, and that's why to me like I really

[3:19:43] appreciate that you're looking at I

[3:19:45] think of it as a redundancy. We're very

[3:19:47] focused on all our redundancies and I

[3:19:49] think what Shane's redundancy and it

[3:19:52] looks like you're you're proposing

[3:19:53] redundancy by um putting together this

[3:19:56] assistant city planner, but I look at a

[3:19:59] redundancy plan for Shane that we need a

[3:20:01] finance person. I mean, we need we need

[3:20:03] a few things that maybe if we're saying

[3:20:05] we have $56,000

[3:20:08] to create a redundancy plan for you.

[3:20:12] I'm not sure that maybe finance isn't

[3:20:14] one of those things. So, these are like

[3:20:15] the deep dive conversations that I don't

[3:20:17] want to call.

[3:20:20] >> No, no, totally. And I think part of

[3:20:22] that is he's I think Shane's looking at

[3:20:24] how much time it took to do

[3:20:27] um you know what we thought was a simple

[3:20:30] planning assistant city administrator

[3:20:32] job and where he had so many projects

[3:20:35] coming he's realizing okay in order to

[3:20:37] be able to train Kaden properly and to

[3:20:40] have that in the city administrative

[3:20:42] portion of it um they're not going to be

[3:20:44] able to do it effectively because

[3:20:45] Kaden's going to be so busy looking up

[3:20:47] ordinances and whatnot. I'm not saying

[3:20:49] that the financing isn't going to be

[3:20:50] there, but I feel like it's such a big

[3:20:53] hit on our budget in one year. It

[3:20:55] keeping in mind all the project

[3:20:57] >> part, you know, like how do you parse

[3:20:59] out? It's a pie. And maybe part of it is

[3:21:02] we need to actually streamline and adopt

[3:21:04] some better systems in our building

[3:21:06] department. I mean, there's like some

[3:21:08] things that we can create efficiencies

[3:21:10] with $56,000

[3:21:12] to be able to open up Shane's time so

[3:21:15] that he can really work with Kaden in an

[3:21:16] effective way that maybe an assistant

[3:21:20] city planner isn't the best option. It's

[3:21:23] a option, but there probably are some

[3:21:26] other things we should look at.

[3:21:28] >> I mean, that's definitely I would like

[3:21:30] give those suggestions if you know what

[3:21:32] you know we can do. I just know that

[3:21:34] most of our residents I and maybe it's

[3:21:36] just because we're a small town, but

[3:21:38] they expect to most people aren't going

[3:21:41] online to look at ordinances and

[3:21:42] whatnot. And maybe that's what we need

[3:21:44] to push people to do more of, but I

[3:21:46] think they expect a level of quality

[3:21:48] that they come here and they're going to

[3:21:49] be able to see someone and be able to

[3:21:51] talk through something with them. So,

[3:21:52] it's just a level of service also,

[3:21:54] right? So, I think it depends on what do we want to be as a city? What do

[3:21:58] we want our presence to be? So that's

[3:22:00] just definitely a conversation.

[3:22:02] >> I think we want to be good stewards of

[3:22:05] the taxpayer dollars. Adopting

[3:22:07] >> processes and systems that do that so

[3:22:10] that we can maximize every dollar that

[3:22:13] people pay in their property taxes and

[3:22:15] in other taxes

[3:22:16] >> is what we need to do. I mean I know

[3:22:18] that it's nice that we can be here to

[3:22:20] visit with them, but I'm not sure that

[3:22:22] that's really maximizing

[3:22:25] those things.

[3:22:26] >> And I think that's a discussion that we

[3:22:27] can have and go over. you like please

[3:22:30] come to the meeting with suggestions on

[3:22:31] what you know can do but maybe also take

[3:22:35] some time in finding out what um those

[3:22:39] things are

[3:22:40] >> that maybe it can't be I do know like

[3:22:42] cities like you know Saratoga they have

[3:22:44] seven city planners you know um and I'm

[3:22:48] sure and their building department has

[3:22:50] because I just um I'm just trying to

[3:22:52] think how many offices and desks that I

[3:22:55] saw in just their building department

[3:22:57] and um you know they're pretty well

[3:23:00] automated like everything's automated

[3:23:03] over there and so it's and it's a city

[3:23:06] that's not I mean they're growing but

[3:23:10] you know

[3:23:10] >> yeah I I had a discussion I was sitting

[3:23:13] at the table at one of our monthly

[3:23:14] lunches with the assistant city manager

[3:23:17] from Saratoga

[3:23:19] and [clears throat]

[3:23:21] he said as they've grown they you know

[3:23:24] they had a lot of positions that wore

[3:23:26] multiple hats and and he said they're

[3:23:28] having to not do that anymore because

[3:23:32] it's it doesn't work for them at their

[3:23:34] growth rate.

[3:23:35] >> Um so they're narrowing responsibilities

[3:23:40] to accommodate.

[3:23:42] >> Let's move on so that we can um we've

[3:23:44] got five more minutes of this meeting.

[3:23:45] So it's

[3:23:46] >> okay. Um Canon Crest, we've talked about

[3:23:49] this. It's going to be pushed pushed

[3:23:50] into 2027. Um

[3:23:54] let's see. There was I think you I was

[3:23:57] copied on an email u from a resident on

[3:24:01] Grove Drive. It's a project that we've

[3:24:03] brought up in the past. Something I

[3:24:06] totally agree with him that something

[3:24:07] needs to be done there. Um, the one

[3:24:10] issue with that, I feel like whenever we

[3:24:12] decide we're going to do that, we need

[3:24:14] to plan a year ahead because I know that

[3:24:17] Lehigh City needs to replace their water

[3:24:20] line in that section of the road.

[3:24:22] >> And we really want them to do that

[3:24:24] before we put new pavement down.

[3:24:27] >> And so I think in fairness to them, we

[3:24:29] would need to give them enough notice.

[3:24:32] And maybe a year is not quite enough.

[3:24:34] Maybe it's a year and a half.

[3:24:36] >> And you have to drop that power line,

[3:24:37] too. So that's the Rocky Mountain Power

[3:24:42] with the state law that was passed a

[3:24:44] year or two ago like fire prevention

[3:24:47] stuff and power companies. They're

[3:24:49] telling me they have to move that uh I

[3:24:52] think they're putting it underground.

[3:24:54] >> But you'd want that too to happen.

[3:24:56] >> Yes. But if we said, "Hey, Rocky

[3:24:58] Mountain Power, we have this project."

[3:25:00] Let's say that state law wasn't in the

[3:25:02] picture uh by our franchise agreement.

[3:25:05] They would have to relocate their poles

[3:25:07] because it's a city project at their

[3:25:09] expense, not ours.

[3:25:10] >> Shane, I watched the videos that the

[3:25:12] resident provided of the narrow road.

[3:25:14] Would would property acquisition be

[3:25:16] required to widen that road?

[3:25:17] >> So, the way we looked at this and and

[3:25:20] this this project's essentially

[3:25:22] designed. there would have to be a few

[3:25:23] tweaks and stuff, but it was looked at

[3:25:25] because it was a responsibility or at

[3:25:28] least a portion of it of u the

[3:25:31] developers with Rigid Alpine. Um but

[3:25:36] they weren't able to acquire the rideway

[3:25:38] that was needed and so they came back to

[3:25:40] council and said, "Hey, we've exhausted

[3:25:42] our our options to acquire this

[3:25:45] rideway." And so the council voted to

[3:25:48] take that responsibility away from them.

[3:25:50] So that project just kind of got put on

[3:25:52] the shelf. Now the property that was the

[3:25:55] issue with rightway has been developed

[3:25:57] and actually has curbon gutter. It's the

[3:25:59] Cherry Point subdivision. Um there's

[3:26:02] still a little issue on the the west

[3:26:04] side, but to get curbon gutter in there,

[3:26:07] it's it's fine. But it was planned for

[3:26:09] um a little bit of a modified

[3:26:12] cross-section. It would have the full 30

[3:26:14] ft of pavement, curb on both sides and

[3:26:17] sidewalk on one side. and that would fit

[3:26:21] with very little rightway acquisition.

[3:26:24] So, some of the rightway that would be

[3:26:27] needed actually is on the property from

[3:26:30] the resident that sent the email and I'm

[3:26:33] sure

[3:26:33] >> we talked to him at one point when they

[3:26:35] were submitting house plans. when you

[3:26:38] said that a prior city council chose to

[3:26:41] take on that responsibility to relieve

[3:26:42] the developer.

[3:26:44] >> So the compensate the the cost is now on

[3:26:47] the city because of that decision.

[3:26:49] >> Yeah. Yeah. And it was it was it wasn't

[3:26:52] even 50/50. It was maybe 20 maybe 20 or

[3:26:56] 30% the developer side and the rest of

[3:26:59] the city. Um I ran across the numbers

[3:27:01] the other day. I just don't recall them

[3:27:03] off top of my head. But but the city

[3:27:06] wasn't willing to condemn the rightway

[3:27:09] >> and so they they voted to take that

[3:27:12] responsibility away. They improved their

[3:27:14] frontage on Grove Drive, but not

[3:27:17] >> Okay, let's

[3:27:18] >> So,

[3:27:18] >> let's let's keep this moving. Sorry.

[3:27:21] >> Okay. Uh water, we uh apply for a grant.

[3:27:25] I say the mayor applied for a grant. She

[3:27:26] did almost all the work um for a water

[3:27:30] tank. Um,

[3:27:32] we're very hopeful that we can get that.

[3:27:35] There would be I think it's a 5050.

[3:27:38] Was it 50/50?

[3:27:39] >> It was a 3 million ask. We'll see what

[3:27:42] we get.

[3:27:43] >> But wasn't a a 50% match.

[3:27:46] >> No, I don't believe so.

[3:27:48] >> Okay. Let's hope it's not that

[3:27:50] >> some of them were, but I think what we

[3:27:51] did was it's pretty close because the

[3:27:54] cost of the project is six billion. So,

[3:27:56] it's Yeah, it ends up being about 5050.

[3:27:58] >> Okay. Um, so I don't know what the

[3:28:01] timeline is for sure on that. Uh,

[3:28:04] pressure irrigation. I mentioned before

[3:28:06] that we got a perform a $9 million bond

[3:28:09] which by our study shows that that would

[3:28:12] cover the recommended projects that

[3:28:14] would be the most impactful that

[3:28:17] depending on whether it was a a direct

[3:28:19] placement or

[3:28:22] um forget the other term bond it'd be in

[3:28:26] the 610 to 633,000

[3:28:30] uh per year range which again back to

[3:28:33] the residents and that's on a 25 year

[3:28:35] bond. That's about 18 to $1,850 per

[3:28:39] resident per month.

[3:28:42] Uh I don't think we need to talk too

[3:28:45] much about the sewer. It's one little

[3:28:47] project, not a big deal. um

[3:28:51] other grants. Um

[3:28:54] the MAG grant that was mentioned tonight

[3:28:58] and then um the MAG grant um Bren notice

[3:29:02] I did not have on my list and I've since

[3:29:04] fixed that for the roundabout that we

[3:29:07] should find out in August.

[3:29:10] Um let's see. Equipment wise, uh we're

[3:29:15] surplusing and it's getting ready to be

[3:29:18] put on public surplus uh a bunch of

[3:29:20] equipment.

[3:29:22] Um Troy feels like if we had uh 144 inch

[3:29:29] mower, we could be more efficient. One

[3:29:32] thing we're running into, and it's this

[3:29:34] the first year it's happened, we we have

[3:29:36] a 16 foot wide lawnmower. We actually

[3:29:39] have two and they're there's an age

[3:29:43] difference, but if one goes down and you

[3:29:45] can't get parts, it it really makes it

[3:29:47] tough to maintain the parks. So, we've

[3:29:50] kind of parked one and used one and kind

[3:29:53] of rotated those through.

[3:29:56] Um, just recently, I guess a plant

[3:29:59] closed that produces the parts for these

[3:30:02] um Jacobson mowers and now they have to

[3:30:04] come from England and he's had a real

[3:30:06] challenge. We had a time, I think it was

[3:30:08] last week, where both of our mowers, big

[3:30:11] mowers were down and we're not in the

[3:30:14] peak

[3:30:16] maintenance season. So, it worked out.

[3:30:18] But, uh, this mower actually will make

[3:30:21] them more efficient. One of the reasons

[3:30:23] is it's narrower

[3:30:25] and they can fit between some of the

[3:30:27] trees that they can't with this one. And

[3:30:29] so, um, he feels like this would be the

[3:30:32] way to go. And a lot of the money we

[3:30:35] generate from selling this equipment can

[3:30:37] offset the cost of of this machine.

[3:30:41] Um, and then uh our the parks department

[3:30:46] kind of gets all the handme-downs

[3:30:50] and it's pretty pretty tough looking

[3:30:52] fleet right now actually. Uh so we were

[3:30:55] proposing to replace one of those trucks

[3:30:58] um be a crew cab truck that the summer

[3:31:01] crew four of them or five usually

[3:31:03] they're in it going around mowing parks.

[3:31:07] Um besides the budget [clears throat]

[3:31:10] timeline

[3:31:12] um that's kind of the highlights of the

[3:31:15] budget and the timeline's here so I

[3:31:18] won't take time going over that. Um, and

[3:31:21] I'm happy to answer any questions at

[3:31:24] this point.

[3:31:25] >> Andrew,

[3:31:27] >> thank you. Do you want to do Chrissy? Do

[3:31:30] you want to make a motion or something?

[3:31:32] Because we've already bypassed your

[3:31:34] motion.

[3:31:35] >> So, if you have any questions,

[3:31:37] >> maybe what we could do is we can set up

[3:31:39] these appointments um that Shane was

[3:31:41] talking about. He'll we'll send out

[3:31:43] availability and then you guys can sign

[3:31:45] up and then ask those questions. At that

[3:31:47] point, I suggest that I will entertain a

[3:31:50] motion to go into close session at the

[3:31:52] end thereof um conclude or um adjourn

[3:31:55] our public meeting.

[3:31:57] >> Also, just to clarify, mayor, uh you

[3:32:00] want us to make a meeting to go over

[3:32:03] this and send you availabilities for

[3:32:06] some send you availabilities and then

[3:32:08] you guys pick what days you can meet

[3:32:10] with Shane regarding the budget

[3:32:11] >> al together or one by one. one or two at

[3:32:14] a time because Okay. It will not be a

[3:32:16] notice. It'll just be one at a time

[3:32:18] because you'll have different

[3:32:19] >> That's fine.

[3:32:20] >> I'll entertain a motion.

[3:32:23] >> I'll make a motion to move to close

[3:32:25] session for the purpose of

[3:32:28] um Okay. I move to pause the regular

[3:32:31] meeting and move into a closed meeting

[3:32:33] to be held in the conference room at

[3:32:34] city hall to discuss um the purchase,

[3:32:37] exchange, sale, or lease of real

[3:32:39] property.

[3:32:41] Is there any other

[3:32:42] >> And at the end

[3:32:44] >> Okay. And at the end of the closed

[3:32:46] meeting, the open city council meeting

[3:32:48] will be adjourned.

[3:32:49] >> Is there a second?

[3:32:49] >> I'll second.

[3:32:50] >> Okay. It's been moved by Councilwoman

[3:32:52] Hanaman. Seconded by Councilman Rumler.

[3:32:55] Um let's proceed with a roll call vote.

[3:32:57] >> Andrew Young, yes. Bren Ramler, yes.

[3:32:58] >> Jessica Simone, yes.

[3:32:59] >> Sarah Blackwell, yes.

[3:33:01] >> Chrissy Hanaman, yes.

[3:33:02] >> Okay. And I would like to just remind

[3:33:05] everyone, we're only to talk about that.

[3:33:07] Nothing else.

[3:33:10] I know, but that's the only topic. I

[3:33:13] don't want topics on everything else.

4.28.26 City Council Meeting

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