[0:00] Thank you, Kaden. Like to welcome

[0:01] everybody out here to the uh planning

[0:03] commission meeting being held this

[0:04] Tuesday, June 2nd, 2026, 6 pm uh live

[0:08] here at city hall, 20 North Main Street,

[0:10] Alpine, Utah. Uh let the record reflect

[0:13] that the meeting has been duly and

[0:16] legally noticed.

[0:18] I'd like to um first recognize from the

[0:21] city that we've got with us Marla Fox,

[0:23] Heidi Smith. I think I saw Heidi.

[0:26] >> Not here right now.

[0:27] >> Okay. But but maybe back.

[0:29] >> Okay. Uh Kaden Lions and I think we have

[0:32] Jason Jud via Zoom. Correct.

[0:35] >> Jason has not joined yet.

[0:37] >> All right. Plans on on joining. And then

[0:40] uh uh from planning commission we have

[0:42] Troy Slade, Michelle Shurmer, myself,

[0:45] Alan McDonald, Suz Wittenberg, and we

[0:49] have John McCay on Zoom I believe.

[0:52] >> Yes.

[0:52] >> Okay. And perhaps he'll uh get here and

[0:54] join us live. Uh, and we would excuse

[0:57] from the meeting uh, commission members

[0:59] Greg Butterfield and Jeff Davis.

[1:04] Um, all right. Thank you to everybody

[1:06] for attending. So, uh, let's please

[1:08] start with a prayer which will be

[1:10] offered by Suz Wittenberg followed by

[1:13] the pledge of allegiance led by Oh, John

[1:15] McCay is not here. Perhaps uh, Troy

[1:18] Slade, you could handle that. Thank you.

[1:21] Our Father in heaven, as we gather this

[1:23] evening, we're so grateful for this

[1:25] opportunity we have to be here as as

[1:27] citizens of this great city. We're so

[1:29] grateful for this time of year as it's

[1:31] rolling into this 250 years of

[1:35] celebration of our great country. We're

[1:37] grateful for those that have gone before

[1:39] us and have made our lives so much more

[1:43] enjoyable. We pray that we might add to

[1:45] that spirit of of citizenry and how we

[1:48] treat each other and as we make these

[1:50] different plans and ordinances together

[1:53] that we can be very fair-minded and be

[1:56] very mindful of the stewardship we have

[1:58] as we serve this great city. We're

[2:01] grateful for all of our blessings,

[2:02] Father, and we pray that we can continue

[2:04] to try to be better people and to better

[2:06] be better neighbors. And we ask for thy

[2:08] spirit tonight. And we say this in the

[2:09] name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

[2:11] >> Amen. Okay, please stand and join me in

[2:14] the pledge.

[2:16] >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

[2:19] United States of America and to the

[2:21] republic for which it stands, one nation

[2:25] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[2:28] justice for all.

[2:31] >> Okay. Uh before we get started, I just

[2:32] want to make one quick uh note or

[2:35] comment to the planning commission

[2:38] members uh that there was a comment made

[2:40] in city council. Uh I was there this

[2:43] past week or I guess a week ago. Was it

[2:45] a week? I guess it was a week ago. Um

[2:48] discussing some of the fire station

[2:50] issues and and the motion and discussion

[2:52] that had been made in planning

[2:54] commission. But anyway, a couple of the

[2:55] city council members just mentioned that

[2:58] when they go back and listen to the

[2:59] recordings, they can't always hear uh

[3:03] what members of the planning commission

[3:05] say because sometimes we are kind of

[3:08] talking over each other and sometimes uh

[3:12] and and sometimes we don't have our mics

[3:15] on and we aren't talking into our

[3:18] microphones. So, let's just remember

[3:19] that we've got these microphones and

[3:21] they're here for a reason. So, let's use

[3:23] them.

[3:24] then it'll even pick up a whisper. All

[3:27] right, with that, uh let's go ahead and

[3:29] start with just the one and only uh

[3:32] action item that we've got on our agenda

[3:34] tonight, uh which is a review of 5.12

[3:38] commercial site plan. Kaden, can you

[3:41] introduce that for us?

[3:42] >> Most definitely. Thank you,

[3:43] commissioners.

[3:45] So, I'm glad the applicant is here with

[3:47] us as well. So, yeah, just to present

[3:50] this item. Uh this is for a a new

[3:53] commercial site plan for the site at 170

[3:56] South Main Street. Um this is for a new

[4:00] warehouse addition and parking lot for

[4:01] the 512 Foundation, which is a nonprofit

[4:05] organization geared to helping feed

[4:06] children. Uh there's a lot of elementary

[4:09] school kids going hungry on the weekends

[4:11] and so their goal is to provide them

[4:13] with with backpacks full of food for

[4:15] those for those weekends. And this new

[4:19] warehouse will increase the foundation's

[4:21] capacity to reach more children.

[4:23] Um the design uh proposed incorporates

[4:27] modern elements as well as other

[4:29] materials. The applicant has provided a

[4:31] site plan that overall meets the code

[4:33] requirements for the business commercial

[4:35] zone and the gateway historic zone. A

[4:37] few things staff noticed. There might be

[4:39] some need to adjust the materials from

[4:40] any non-conforming materials to the

[4:42] materials that are permitted in the

[4:44] gateway historic design guidelines. And

[4:46] it's also important to note that the

[4:49] applicant meet the landscaping

[4:51] requirements for the BC zone which

[4:52] requires 20% of the site be improved

[4:55] landscaping. Um in the code 407, 408,

[4:59] and 410 have been evaluated and affirmed

[5:02] compliance. So, I guess I'll just scroll

[5:05] down now and

[5:07] show the first elevation

[5:11] or rendering better said of the site.

[5:15] And we'll obviously look at this again.

[5:17] I just thought it'd be good to look at

[5:18] it really quick

[5:22] and going back here.

[5:25] So,

[5:30] um, the staff recommends that the

[5:32] planning commission consider sending a

[5:33] positive recommendation to the city

[5:35] council for the proposed site plan for

[5:36] the new 512 commercial building or

[5:39] addition at 170 South Main Street,

[5:41] subject to the condition that all

[5:43] exterior materials of the building match

[5:44] what is permitted in the gateway

[5:46] historic design guidelines and that 20%

[5:48] of the site be improved landscaping.

[5:51] So, I think that's all I really have to present on this. I'm sure you've

[5:55] looked through this in the packet and

[5:57] have some comments and questions. Um,

[5:59] and the applicant is here. Uh, if you

[6:02] would like to ask them any questions as

[6:03] well, but I I'll open it up for

[6:04] discussion or send it back to you, I

[6:06] should say. Alan.

[6:07] >> Uh, yeah. Um, thank you, Kaden. No, good

[6:10] introduction. Appreciate that. Um, and I

[6:13] am aware of the the charitable

[6:17] activities um of of the group, you know,

[6:22] Nick Greer and and crew, and it is

[6:24] amazing, you know, what they do. Um,

[6:27] with respect to the building,

[6:30] I do I do have some questions that you

[6:34] can just perhaps clarify because I did

[6:37] note in your staff recommendation,

[6:39] Caden, that the city indicates that uh

[6:42] the the planning commission considers

[6:44] sending a positive recommendation

[6:47] uh subject to the condition that all

[6:49] exterior materials of the building match

[6:51] what is permitted in the gateway

[6:53] historic design guidelines.

[6:55] And um I will have a question for you

[6:57] just I want to just confirm the off-

[7:00] streetet parking you know situation and

[7:02] understand what that pad is. But um

[7:06] before we get to that,

[7:09] uh can you go

[7:11] Kaden and pull up what is I think the first couple of renderings of of the

[7:17] elevations. And I think these are both

[7:20] the eastern face, right? One kind of

[7:24] looking at it a little bit south and one

[7:26] a little bit north, but these are both

[7:28] the east east elevation.

[7:31] >> What? So, I see m I see materials that

[7:34] are

[7:36] Sorry, I'm looking on my computer at the

[7:38] same time as you. I see materials that for example to the left here,

[7:42] there's the the two small windows and

[7:44] there's a a dark material. I see

[7:48] concrete

[7:49] and then moving kind of left to right on

[7:52] the building.

[7:54] There's some white trim work around

[7:56] those windows. I'm wondering what you

[7:59] know what materials that exactly is. And

[8:02] then I see some of the brown. Looks like

[8:05] there's either wood or some wood

[8:08] simulation. I just I'm just wondering

[8:10] what what are the various materials that

[8:13] we're looking at.

[8:15] >> Thanks for that question. I'll just pull

[8:17] up the the elevations on this slide

[8:19] here.

[8:24] So the

[8:27] kind of gray or white looking material

[8:28] we just saw on the rendering here on the

[8:31] elevation right here on the east

[8:32] elevation we can see is called cement

[8:35] fiber sighting which is painted.

[8:39] We have a synthetic wood plank,

[8:42] a standing seam metal roof for all this

[8:45] dark black material here,

[8:48] and then over here, a cement fiber

[8:51] sighting, which is painted. So, the same

[8:53] as as this, but just a different style.

[8:55] It looks like a little bit.

[8:58] Um, and then synthetic wood panel here.

[9:01] And then the whole bottom base looks

[9:02] like it is stucco.

[9:08] Is it stuckle or is it cement? I did

[9:11] because well the one the the actually

[9:13] the realistic picture looks like cement

[9:15] or something.

[9:18] >> Let's go back to that and yeah maybe the

[9:19] applicant eventually can clarify that.

[9:23] >> Yeah.

[9:24] >> So from what I understand this is stucco

[9:28] >> although I can see what you're saying

[9:30] Troy or Commissioner Slate that looks

[9:32] like a cement material.

[9:37] Let's go to the next picture as well,

[9:38] just to see.

[9:42] Yeah, from what I understand, this

[9:43] bottom base is stucco, but potentially

[9:46] the applicant can clarify when they when

[9:48] they discuss.

[9:49] >> Okay. Yeah. And with the applicant here,

[9:52] perhaps we can just ask them if they

[9:53] brought any of these uh materials in a

[9:56] sample that we could take a look at, but we'll um Yeah. And just a second.

[10:01] Just just a couple other quick

[10:02] questions. All right. We'll we'll come

[10:04] back to those materials then. Um,

[10:08] can you please go Kaden to the

[10:12] uh just maybe it was the landscape. Um,

[10:17] and I I just wanted to confirm, you

[10:19] know, you and I had a discussion about

[10:21] the off- streetet parking ordinance, and

[10:24] this one's just a little it's a little

[10:26] odd,

[10:28] at least a little different than what we

[10:30] usually do because, if I understand,

[10:33] this is an addition to the existing

[10:36] warehouse that sits on First West, 100

[10:39] West, right?

[10:40] >> That's correct. and they're adding to

[10:42] that and that addition is uh being done

[10:46] with parking on a parcel that fronts

[10:49] Main Street. So that brings obviously

[10:51] Main Street and the Gateway Historic

[10:53] District guidelines into play. Um just a

[10:57] quick question and then you know we can

[10:59] understand the the landscape uh plan in

[11:02] a minute here but

[11:04] this

[11:06] up in the the norththeast

[11:10] corner let's see future building

[11:12] location native grass reveation seed mix

[11:15] to be provided to all disturbed areas

[11:18] this location is future building

[11:19] construction. So, do we understand that that there's more or less a a

[11:25] building pad up there in that northwest

[11:29] northeast corner, sorry, along Main

[11:31] Street where a future office building is

[11:37] proposed or intended to be constructed

[11:40] >> some undetermined time.

[11:41] >> That is the city's understanding. Yes.

[11:43] >> Okay.

[11:44] Um

[11:48] the the parking does not encroach into

[11:51] the setback.

[11:52] >> It does not according to the business

[11:54] commercial zone.

[11:55] >> Yeah.

[11:55] >> So there's no exception required like

[11:59] we've seen from time to time in other

[12:02] commercial buildings. It's just an odd

[12:04] one then be so we will I mean the the

[12:07] parking the park the parking lot and the

[12:09] cars will be visible from Main Street.

[12:14] It just happens to be an oddity of this

[12:17] particular project that

[12:21] the building there's a building pad but

[12:23] not a building currently proposed to be

[12:25] built. But otherwise there's no issue

[12:28] that we need to look at as far as off-

[12:29] streetet parking. I just want to confirm

[12:31] that.

[12:32] >> Yeah. From from our review, there was no

[12:34] uh there was no issue. In fact, it's

[12:36] obviously much more parking than is

[12:38] needed for this building currently

[12:40] >> with a future anticipation. But yeah.

[12:43] >> Okay.

[12:44] >> All right. Those are the only questions

[12:46] that I think I had for Kaden. Uh anybody

[12:49] else have questions for Kaden now before

[12:52] perhaps we invite the applicant to the

[12:54] podium?

[12:57] If we

[13:00] if you were to I know you say there's

[13:02] more than enough parking now, but if

[13:04] that future site became

[13:07] a large building, would the parking

[13:10] still stand and be fine?

[13:14] >> That's a good question, Commissioner. I feel like right now at this time, it's

[13:18] hard to say.

[13:18] >> I know.

[13:19] >> Depending on the building,

[13:20] >> that's the problem.

[13:21] >> Yeah. Is is this and is the 20%

[13:27] landscaping

[13:29] are we going to take the 20%

[13:32] on because we can't count that future

[13:35] pad as the 20% in my opinion the 20%

[13:39] landscaping should be and should come

[13:42] from

[13:44] the current site minus that because if

[13:48] that got built with just a little strip

[13:51] of of of vegetation, then when the whole

[13:56] project is complete, it won't be 20%.

[14:01] So

[14:01] >> that's a fair point.

[14:03] >> So that's just one of my thoughts on

[14:05] that parking and vegetation with our two

[14:09] kind ordinances. So, if you took that

[14:12] currently landscaped, what I'm just

[14:14] calling a future building pad out of the

[14:17] equation,

[14:20] I mean, I I think Michelle makes a great

[14:22] point. Is the landscape plan in

[14:27] compliance?

[14:29] >> From from my review, I don't think it

[14:31] currently meets the 20% requirement. Um,

[14:36] but I I probably could try to do a more

[14:41] robust calculation on that to see

[14:43] exactly what percent they're at. I

[14:45] haven't had the chance to do that right

[14:46] now, but maybe the applicant can address

[14:48] that as well,

[14:49] >> you know, and I suppose that they're

[14:51] look,

[14:52] remind me, is is it a 10 or 20 foot

[14:54] setback off of Main Street?

[14:56] >> It is a 15 for the front.

[14:59] >> So, in other words, neither,

[15:00] >> right?

[15:01] >> I I bracketed it 15 foot. So if you took

[15:04] for example Michelle I I mean I suppose

[15:05] if you took 15 foot 15 feet of that

[15:09] setback assumed it was landscaped and

[15:13] you took it down the length of that pad.

[15:16] It's just I mean I think Michelle raises

[15:18] just a really good point which is

[15:23] wi with those assumptions in mind

[15:27] in the future

[15:29] will there I mean will this landscape

[15:32] plan meet code

[15:36] >> I'm sorry I didn't have someone else ask

[15:38] me

[15:38] >> I mean you you should probably answer

[15:39] that not me but I just I mean wouldn't

[15:42] we just approve it on what they're

[15:43] asking for now and then in the future

[15:45] Sure. It as long as they're aware like

[15:48] look, you know, you might have to

[15:50] totally change your plans because you're

[15:52] going to have to meet it.

[15:54] You know, I don't know. Is that our

[15:57] responsibility?

[15:58] >> I think that's a good point. I think um

[16:01] yeah, basically it would just have to

[16:02] meet the code as is today. If there's

[16:05] 20% landscaping on the site today, then

[16:08] it could be approved and it should be

[16:10] approved for the landscaping part of it.

[16:12] Um and then everything else can be dealt

[16:14] with at a future date. I would agree

[16:15] with that.

[16:16] >> I have a comment to your first point,

[16:18] Michelle. The accommodation of the

[16:19] parking is concerning to me.

[16:22] >> Back to the microphone because I it's

[16:24] just we just don't know what size

[16:26] building would we that seems like a lot.

[16:28] When I first wrote I was like, that's

[16:29] ample parking for that. But down the

[16:32] road, it's one thing to add some more

[16:34] maybe some greenscaping, but are you

[16:36] going to put in a lot more a bigger

[16:39] >> Well,

[16:40] >> parking area.

[16:41] >> Yeah. I I mean, but but I I think you're

[16:43] right, but two things.

[16:46] Correct me if I'm wrong, Kane, but I

[16:48] think there's is that 80.

[16:50] Does this does this plan call for 80

[16:52] parking spaces? Is that how many it is?

[16:55] >> So, it's four for every,000 square feet.

[17:00] Um the building is 6,000 square feet.

[17:04] So

[17:06] >> yeah, that would be like what do 24

[17:08] parking spots, but this is as proposed

[17:10] it's 80,

[17:11] >> right?

[17:11] >> 88 I think is the right number. So I

[17:13] mean I think there's like like even if

[17:15] you put a building in there, there's

[17:17] going to be plenty of parking.

[17:18] >> What is the size of the existing

[17:20] building?

[17:23] >> I am not sure on that. I can't remember

[17:27] >> because it's on the plan here somewhere.

[17:30] the parking for that building is to

[17:33] code. But I still think if you took that

[17:35] building and the existing building

[17:37] because they only have like what nine or

[17:39] 10 spots and if it's so I just yeah it's

[17:44] probably still fine but it should be

[17:47] based upon the two buildings now in

[17:50] total square footage um not just the new

[17:56] >> That's a good point commissioner. Thank

[17:57] you.

[17:59] >> I mean, can we do some mathing? Do we

[18:02] have any idea? Um, perhaps the applicant

[18:05] here knows what the current square

[18:06] footage of the existing building is.

[18:11] Do we know that? Just to run a quick

[18:12] calc on parking.

[18:14] >> Say it's around 6,000 square feet.

[18:16] >> Yeah, I was going to say it's not

[18:17] gigantic.

[18:18] >> I'll tell you this.

[18:20] >> You want me to come up?

[18:21] >> Oh, sure. Yeah.

[18:24] and and just state your name and and um

[18:26] welcome.

[18:27] >> My name is JD Hiner with Silver Fox

[18:29] Construction.

[18:37] » This isn't hooked to anything

[18:39] buttons.

[18:40] >> Oh, I they should be on if you just talk

[18:43] to There we go.

[18:44] >> There we go.

[18:45] >> All right. Um

[18:45] >> and I'm sorry, it was JD.

[18:47] >> JD. Yeah. Okay. Uh naturally as we look

[18:50] to um even the future plan and future

[18:54] phase, we built into this analysis what

[18:58] we anticipate a building like that being

[19:00] sized at.

[19:01] >> Um with that sizing, we built all the

[19:03] parking off that and there was ample

[19:05] parking even with the existing building,

[19:07] the addition and a new new building. In

[19:09] fact, we had some communication before

[19:11] Kaden came um with um

[19:15] >> not well Ryan as well, but who is the

[19:18] other gentleman we met? Shane.

[19:19] >> Jason.

[19:20] >> Shane.

[19:21] >> Um Shane as well around parking

[19:23] requirements. It's a little ambiguous

[19:25] actually for this use as well. Given

[19:27] it's not office, it's it's warehouse,

[19:30] but it doesn't house employees. And so

[19:32] we we talked through a lot of

[19:33] >> it does it now, but in the future it

[19:35] always could.

[19:35] >> It always could. Yeah. And I'm not

[19:37] saying that, you know, that would

[19:38] dictate other than to say, you know,

[19:39] there was a lot of conversation around

[19:40] the use, a lot of conversation around

[19:43] the the zoning requirements kind of not,

[19:46] you know, really defining defining it

[19:48] well and and we took a route of just

[19:50] making sure there's ample for both the

[19:53] current use and future use.

[19:54] >> Yeah, JD, that would be my question. So,

[19:56] I've been there a lot when Yeah. at

[19:57] night with groups and it's hard to find

[19:59] parking. So, I'm assuming you're going

[20:01] to somehow connect the existing

[20:03] warehouse. You don't that's coming off

[20:05] of First West, right? You park along

[20:08] there and then would you just somehow

[20:10] they'll be able to park? I know that

[20:11] that's opened up a little bit already,

[20:13] but there's got to be a way to get that

[20:15] access right from the entrance of the first house, the current warehouse.

[20:20] >> Yeah, there's entrances now on both

[20:22] sides. Um, obviously with the temporary

[20:26] parking lot they put there. Um, there's

[20:28] ample parking now as well. You know,

[20:30] most I think I think on,

[20:32] >> you know, peak type night, they probably

[20:33] have 70 or so volunteers. Most of them

[20:36] come in suburbans and a group of about

[20:38] seven. And so there certainly certainly

[20:40] before that asphalt was laid, parking

[20:42] may have been a bigger issue, but

[20:43] parking is not an issue now.

[20:45] >> But there's access to get into

[20:46] >> and there is access on both sides. Yeah.

[20:48] And I think Suz that main access in the

[20:51] future once this building is finished

[20:53] will be off of Main Street and we'll be

[20:55] on the east side

[20:57] >> because Yeah, because there's just Yeah,

[20:59] exactly. So, but so all right. So,

[21:01] Kaden, if we just assumed I mean I don't

[21:04] know if you had a chance to run the

[21:05] math, but if we just assumed that the addition is 6,000 ft, the existing

[21:09] building is 6,000 ft. I mean, even give

[21:12] it seven or eight and and you run your

[21:14] math. What's the um what's the required

[21:18] parking? I'm just going to assume it's

[21:20] going to come in much less than 88.

[21:22] >> Yeah, I think it's that'd be 48 if my

[21:25] math brain is working.

[21:26] >> All right. And and then I think to

[21:27] Troy's point, I mean, don't know what's

[21:30] going to happen in the future with that,

[21:31] but whatever happens in the future will

[21:34] be subject to um the landscape requiring

[21:39] percentage and will also be subject to

[21:42] uh you know the parking. So the size of

[21:44] that building is going to be um somewhat

[21:47] determined by the by compliance with um

[21:52] landscape requirements and parking

[21:53] requirements. But I don't think it's

[21:55] anything that that we can necessarily um

[21:58] look at today other than just what's in

[22:00] front of us. So that future building,

[22:02] whatever the plan is for that pad in

[22:04] that future building, we'll just have to

[22:05] comply at that point with um those

[22:08] ordinances.

[22:08] >> That's I think that's right.

[22:11] >> Okay.

[22:12] >> Um

[22:14] uh John, welcome. You were you were hit

[22:17] you were breaking a few laws trying you

[22:19] know.

[22:20] >> Well, don't actually 15 gets shut down

[22:22] in both directions. Oh jeez, that's

[22:24] going to come up tomorrow.

[22:26] >> Wow, that's crazy.

[22:27] >> Well, welcome John. Um,

[22:29] >> I'll also note that Jason joined the

[22:31] Zoom call.

[22:31] >> Welcome Jason. Um, okay. So, John, I

[22:36] think you were listening on Zoom and

[22:37] don't know if there's anything you need

[22:38] to be up to speed on before we keep

[22:40] rolling.

[22:41] >> I have one general question. Um,

[22:45] are these is this one lot or is this are

[22:48] these two lots that we're putting a

[22:49] building across?

[22:51] >> It's one lot. Okay. Yeah, very good.

[22:56] >> That was really my question.

[22:59] >> Usually you have a building. Oh, sorry.

[23:01] >> No, no, you you go.

[23:02] >> No, no, you go.

[23:04] >> Okay. All right. Um, so the view I was

[23:08] going to talk about the view. Do you

[23:09] have something before I shift gears?

[23:11] >> Well, it's just usually you would have a

[23:13] building on Main Street that would hide

[23:15] the parking lot behind it so that the

[23:18] street front has a beautiful Main Street

[23:21] view. The problem with this plan is

[23:24] because that office building is in the

[23:26] future that would finish the main street

[23:28] view as you walk down. Then all we see

[23:32] is the parking lot. So, can we flip or

[23:37] require that landscaping to be the

[23:40] buffer so that we don't just see parking

[23:44] lot because right now

[23:48] this building may not go in for 5 10

[23:52] years. We don't know. And so I I guess

[23:56] that's my struggle is that it's

[24:00] open parking lot. Are you thinking to

[24:01] require uh some additional landscaping

[24:06] along in that pad to perhaps be for

[24:09] example

[24:10] couple trees even though maybe later

[24:12] they'll be taken down or a hedge or

[24:14] >> well there's already

[24:16] >> or a or a wall or

[24:18] >> there's already vegetation that's going

[24:20] to be removed when they combine this

[24:22] building because there's beautiful

[24:23] vegetation on the east side of their

[24:26] existing building that's going to have

[24:28] to come down to com I just think that

[24:32] this our view of the city's view is of

[24:38] an entrance that will probably be used

[24:40] by the semi-truckss. Is that where

[24:42] they're going to start flipping and

[24:44] using that entrance? They going to use

[24:46] the main street entrance or are they

[24:47] going to continue their first west

[24:49] entrance?

[24:49] >> Yeah, so we don't typically have semi

[24:51] trucks coming in. We do have some box

[24:53] >> box trucks. Um, you know, the

[24:55] alternative is what we have now, which

[24:58] is a parking lot and an existing

[25:00] building. So, you are going to get a

[25:01] much nicer looking building with much

[25:03] nicer looking landscaping. Um, the

[25:06] challenge is we can't put 512 out on the

[25:08] street right now because there's some,

[25:10] you know, process and in, you know,

[25:13] warehousing and whatnot. You can't have

[25:15] two buildings. And I think ultimately,

[25:17] if you've seen any of the projects Nick

[25:19] Greer has been involved in, he does

[25:21] intend to put a family office there. And

[25:23] I suspect it's going to look really

[25:24] nice. So, in the meantime, it'll look

[25:26] better than it does today

[25:29] and it'll actually look really good.

[25:31] >> Yeah. So, Michelle, I mean, I mean, I I

[25:34] had those same thoughts and I discussed

[25:35] them with Kaden beforehand and then

[25:37] reviewed the off- streetet parking and

[25:41] I'm very I mean, I'm totally agree with

[25:43] your comment. I'm just not sure that our

[25:47] ordin I mean as as proposed

[25:52] the project

[25:55] checks all the boxes on the off-

[25:56] streetet parking. Um I guess I can just

[26:00] think of a couple of sit, you know, a

[26:01] couple of situations like the bank has a

[26:03] few parking spots that are, you know,

[26:07] they're right on Main Street. Um

[26:11] so does the city center. So does the

[26:13] gold and silver building across the way.

[26:15] I mean, at some point, you know, again,

[26:19] I I don't know what Nick's timing is. It

[26:22] sounds like he's thinking about putting

[26:23] a, you know, Greer Enterprises. Pretty

[26:26] soon he'll, you know, pretty much he and

[26:28] Elon will run the planet. But, um, but

[26:31] it sounds like at some point there may

[26:32] be a a Greer family office there. I

[26:35] don't know a timeline on that. I just

[26:37] don't know that the that what you're

[26:40] saying is

[26:43] in in the code.

[26:46] >> Um yeah. Is the is the ballard and the

[26:50] lock chain always going to be there or

[26:52] will that be removed?

[26:54] >> Well, if if the school keeps parking

[26:56] over there, it makes you it makes it a

[26:58] challenge on Wednesday nights when they

[27:00] need to use it for their uses. So, you

[27:02] know, I I don't know. That'll be up to

[27:05] the Greer family whether they want to

[27:06] keep that there once 512's this

[27:09] addition's been done, but it has been a

[27:10] challenge um for them when people are

[27:13] pulling up to do their work on a

[27:14] Wednesday night and the parking lots

[27:15] filled due to a school activity. So, I

[27:17] anticipate yes, it will stay there for

[27:19] at least for now.

[27:20] >> Okay. Um Okay. While we have JD, um do

[27:24] we have I want to have a chat with him

[27:27] about materials.

[27:29] >> Yes. Yeah. Let's not move to that. Let's

[27:31] get all the other questions done first.

[27:35] Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. So, the term

[27:38] you're using is reveation seed. Is that

[27:42] be kind of like a an erosion barrier

[27:45] kind of a application or is that actual

[27:49] formal landscaping?

[27:50] >> Yeah, I wouldn't say it's a it's it's

[27:52] what you're looking at there now today.

[27:54] Um it'll you know, we don't want a mud bog there.

[27:57] >> Yeah.

[27:57] >> And tire tracks and all the things. So,

[28:00] we'll seat over that. So there's

[28:01] vegetation and you know the Greer family

[28:04] I'm sure will maintain that so it

[28:05] doesn't become an ugly field. They don't

[28:06] want that. They they they want you know

[28:09] when you pull into their facility to

[28:10] look nice. Uh so there'll be a level of

[28:12] maintenance done there and and but it's

[28:14] also a future building pad. You don't

[28:16] want to go spend you know $80,000 90

[28:19] $100,000 landscaping something you're

[28:21] going to tear out maybe very soon. So

[28:24] >> yeah, you probably couldn't put

[28:26] sprinklers and

[28:27] >> Yeah. But native seed also spreads. Are

[28:30] we okay with that?

[28:34] >> I mean, my neighbor over my neighbor

[28:36] wildflowered a native seed and I've got

[28:39] it everywhere. I can't get rid of it's

[28:42] just a concern.

[28:49] » We don't have to do that. I mean, we can

[28:52] >> Well, we don't want a dirt field. I

[28:53] know. So that's that's the conundrum

[28:55] >> that we we're juggling

[28:57] >> a lot of

[28:58] >> so if they

[29:00] >> now

[29:01] >> so is the does the streetscaping thing

[29:04] come into play here if that front part

[29:08] is not developed yet? Are they going to

[29:10] be required to do

[29:12] these streetscaping requirements? Does

[29:15] that make sense? if

[29:18] you know because we're we're we're

[29:19] talking

[29:21] you know put putting in a feature every

[29:23] 30 feet

[29:27] um

[29:28] installation of plazas gathering spaces

[29:31] where people may linger planters trees

[29:35] shrubs

[29:37] you know

[29:39] >> yeah they're bringing obviously watering

[29:41] right up to the

[29:43] northeast corner of their planted area.

[29:47] I don't think it's a big ask to say,

[29:49] "Let's put a couple of sprinkler heads

[29:50] in that area, plant grass, or even

[29:56] rock it

[29:58] just to provide some

[30:01] uh

[30:04] protection from that parking lot on Main

[30:07] Street. The reason why it's an issue is

[30:08] it's our historic gate gateway district

[30:11] and and we normally would part of that

[30:14] landscape design would be required to

[30:16] make that future building site nice. And

[30:19] if it's not gonna if it's nothing more

[30:21] than wild flowers, we wouldn't consider

[30:24] that to be nice.

[30:26] >> Well, if you're going to put a building

[30:27] there anyway, maybe we can I don't know,

[30:31] maybe you can just plan the landscaping

[30:34] out front. the landscaping along that 15

[30:36] foot setback.

[30:38] >> Yeah, just throwing it out there.

[30:42] >> John's right. I mean, when you come into

[30:44] the city, it's it's we're trying to make

[30:45] that very Have you noticed how nice it looks now at the roundabout?

[30:50] >> A lot of

[30:51] >> making good progress. And so, it's nice

[30:53] to have I think that that just pop of

[30:56] green and a little bit of barrier.

[30:57] That's all we're saying. Not you know,

[31:00] >> I would make that part of the

[31:01] recommendation.

[31:01] >> Yes.

[31:02] >> Yeah, I would say so.

[31:03] >> Make that enhance his probably. It'll

[31:04] make him I mean, I know he'll do a good

[31:06] job with his landscaping, but it would

[31:08] be great to have that planned.

[31:13] » Um, okay. Before we uh Anybody have any

[31:17] other questions for And don't leave yet,

[31:19] JD.

[31:20] >> Might have some for you on on uh

[31:22] materials. Anybody else have any other

[31:24] questions on parking, landscaping,

[31:27] anything else?

[31:32] » Okay. All right. Then J,

[31:35] >> can we pause on that really quick? Just

[31:36] add a quick question.

[31:37] >> Yep, sure.

[31:38] >> Would that be a condition upon the

[31:39] approval or is that a recommendation?

[31:43] >> So the the what we do as the planning

[31:46] commission is uh take a look at the plan

[31:49] and try to determine that uh all the um

[31:52] eyes have been dotted, tees crossed and

[31:55] everything in the plan, landscape

[31:57] setbacks, etc. You know, along with the

[32:00] city staff, you know, meet code. Um

[32:04] and then so with respect to the

[32:07] landscape plan, you know what what we do

[32:09] here for planning commission as you

[32:10] obviously know is we make a

[32:12] recommendation to city council. Well, we

[32:15] can do three things. We can make a

[32:16] recommendation to um accept with or

[32:20] without conditions. um make a

[32:23] recommendation to deny and we usually

[32:26] try to uh you know g give a record you

[32:28] know about why we're denying or we can

[32:30] do a motion to table in other words hey

[32:32] we just we need some additional

[32:34] information here. So um what it would be

[32:38] is a a at least with that particular

[32:41] aspect using that example on this

[32:42] landscape plan it would be for example

[32:45] if it were a recommendation to approve

[32:47] it we would make a recommendation to the

[32:49] city council to approve with the

[32:50] following conditions ABC XYZ whatever

[32:54] they happen to be and it might be you

[32:56] know landscaping kind of a green belt

[32:58] along that 15 foot setback for example

[33:02] and then city council can you know

[33:04] obviously they are free to uh you know

[33:07] they give great weight to our

[33:08] recommendations but they're free to you

[33:10] know take our recommendations accept

[33:12] them um deny them modify them you know

[33:15] whatever they see fit

[33:16] >> perfect thank you

[33:17] >> yeah um okay So JD, as as I understand

[33:23] just looking through these plans,

[33:27] um well, let me even back up on that.

[33:28] One thing that we do as the planning

[33:30] commission is um one of our greatest

[33:34] responsibilities honestly is um

[33:37] preservation of the Gateway Historic

[33:39] District and we apply the Gateway

[33:41] Historic District design guidelines. Um,

[33:45] when we look through those guidelines,

[33:47] for example, and I'm not going to read

[33:48] the whole things, but uh I'm not going

[33:50] to bore everybody, but it says, for

[33:51] example, guidelines, new developments

[33:53] should mimic details of older buildings,

[33:57] use similar materials, make mundane uses

[33:59] look good, include design features on

[34:02] blank walls. Um, and then there's a few

[34:04] other things, right? New construction

[34:05] should respect and build upon the

[34:06] historical legacy of downtown Alpine,

[34:09] and borrow historic features from the

[34:11] area. Um, and then when we look at at

[34:14] design criteria, we look at relation to

[34:16] the surrounding area, height, exterior

[34:18] walls, fences and surfaces, windows and

[34:20] doors, exterior trim and decorative

[34:22] detailing, roofing, materials,

[34:25] parenthesis, texture, color finishes,

[34:27] and finally streetscaping. So, um, most

[34:31] of those boxes have been checked

[34:33] already. Uh, we've already discussed,

[34:35] for example, streetscaping. And you know

[34:38] that's why it might sound um a little

[34:41] bit overkill when we're talking about

[34:43] the appearance and um perhaps even even

[34:47] you know green belt and you know

[34:49] temporary landscaping of that 15oot

[34:51] setback you know that's that's part of

[34:53] our mandate you know that we do. So the

[34:55] other thing that I think that we all

[34:56] really want to talk to you about is is

[34:59] materials.

[35:00] And my understanding on is that the

[35:04] proposal as it currently exists

[35:09] you're using uh on the the exterior of

[35:13] the building, these various elevations,

[35:16] the following materials. cement fiber

[35:19] siding,

[35:21] synthetic wood plank.

[35:24] Um, cement fiber siding painted.

[35:28] Well, maybe maybe they're all going to

[35:29] be painted. I guess that's same. And

[35:31] then a synthetic wood panel. Is that

[35:34] different than synthetic wood plank?

[35:36] >> Um, very similar. You'd look at, for

[35:38] example, Mr. Greer's barn. That's

[35:41] actually not wood. That's like a

[35:42] synthetic wood. So that would be an

[35:44] example of the sort of planking you

[35:45] would see on a building like this.

[35:48] >> Okay. And then part of the the

[35:51] elevation, the exterior, you're using

[35:53] metal roof sighting, correct?

[35:55] >> Okay.

[35:56] >> Similar to what's there.

[35:58] >> Okay. Um,

[36:00] I just think the issue that that I've

[36:02] got on this JD is when we go to the

[36:08] historic district design guidelines, um,

[36:11] under chapter 3,

[36:13] um, we look at design standards and, uh,

[36:15] yeah, Kaden, thanks for pulling that up.

[36:18] And the use of stone, brick, wood, or

[36:20] stucco is encouraged for use as the

[36:23] primary exterior material. Next bullet

[36:26] point, innovative use of other materials

[36:28] that mimic the primary exterior

[36:30] materials listed may be considered. So I

[36:33] think in the past we've looked at some

[36:34] of those materials as perhaps in trim or

[36:38] uh in small

[36:40] you know cosmetic type uses that that you know they may be considered but

[36:48] we really try to encourage the primary

[36:51] exterior materials to be stone, brick,

[36:54] wood or stucco. And I think my issue

[36:57] personally is that I don't think any of

[37:00] the materials you're proposing on this

[37:02] building are

[37:04] uh stone, brick, wood, or stucco. And

[37:07] those are our those are what we

[37:08] recommend as primary, you know,

[37:11] materials. So I was hoping I didn't know

[37:14] if you had brought samples with you

[37:15] today that we could take a look at.

[37:17] Okay. Sometimes that's a help to get us,

[37:20] you know, over that. But um I think a

[37:22] concern that that we're going to have

[37:24] and um happy to have you address that or uh you know open that discussion to

[37:29] other members as well. We can do that

[37:32] after we we um not excuse but but would

[37:35] but we don't have to keep JD standing

[37:36] all night.

[37:37] >> But I suppose that would be my my uh own

[37:40] concern over this is the use of the

[37:42] exterior materials and um maybe you can

[37:45] try and and help settle our concerns on

[37:48] that.

[37:49] >> Yeah. So,

[37:51] first and foremost, we're flexible on

[37:54] this design. We want to meet the

[37:56] downtown criteria. You know, we aren't

[37:58] married to any of these materials. If we

[38:01] want to put some brick on it, let's put

[38:02] some brick on it. If we want to switch

[38:03] some some things up, you know, we'd

[38:06] prefer to stay away. You know, you look

[38:07] at Nick's barn, you could go up and

[38:08] touch it, you wouldn't even know it was

[38:10] a synthetic wood. In fact, I had people

[38:12] tell me, "No, that's wood." I said, "I

[38:13] promise you it's not wood."

[38:15] >> Um,

[38:15] >> yeah. I tried to set it on fire and it

[38:17] wouldn't it wouldn't wouldn't even go.

[38:18] It was Yeah, I mean, good stuff.

[38:20] >> Um, but but it's it's a great material.

[38:24] It doesn't present the maintenance

[38:25] nightmare. You know, something you

[38:27] coming down the road now on Main Street

[38:28] and you're seeing something that needs

[38:29] to m be maintained. It's constantly

[38:31] maintained. And so, we do like products

[38:33] like that. Um, but if there's there's an

[38:37] element where we can bring in some brick

[38:39] here or if there's an element, you know,

[38:41] that the the concrete sections are

[38:43] stuckco, you can actually put um grooves

[38:46] within the stucco to make it almost look

[38:47] like a concrete facade. We did it in

[38:49] building an in American Fork.

[38:50] >> Um, so it's to give the illusion of

[38:53] that, but it is a stucco product. So

[38:55] there is still, you know, a good amount

[38:56] of stucco on here. Um, but we're

[38:59] flexible. Um, and we could take another

[39:01] pass on that. Uh the the the core thing

[39:04] we're trying to get through right now

[39:06] and understand is whether or not we can

[39:08] get site plan approval. Um we anticipate

[39:10] as well before a building permits even

[39:11] approved, we'd have to meet those m

[39:14] material requirements from from this

[39:16] group. So um we're probably less

[39:18] passionate about the materials on this

[39:20] project.

[39:20] >> Okay. Well, that's actually really good

[39:22] to hear. And this is neither here nor

[39:24] there um for you guys because um the the

[39:28] only thing that you're I mean the

[39:30] guidelines that you have used to design

[39:33] the building and that are applicable to

[39:34] your project are whatever design

[39:37] standards are currently in place under

[39:40] you know this um this current ordinance.

[39:42] Um, a little bit of guidance to you is,

[39:45] you know, in the future what what both

[39:47] planning commission and city council are

[39:49] working on, um, kind of a a

[39:52] forwardlooking 50-year plan is use of a

[39:55] lot more traditional design elements

[39:58] like red brick, you know, kind of what

[40:00] we call Utah traditional

[40:02] euphemistically.

[40:04] um red brick, wood accents, um like some

[40:08] of the newer, like for example, the

[40:09] Cedar Hills Fire Station, some of the

[40:11] new buildings you see, you know, going

[40:12] down North County Boulevard in in Cedar

[40:15] Hills and and Pleasant Grove. Um just

[40:18] more of a, you know, kind of a timeless

[40:19] look, but with some interesting

[40:20] architectural elements, which um I think

[40:23] your your your building could could I

[40:25] mean, look, we love the project. We love

[40:27] seeing things go in on Main Street. um

[40:29] to the extent that that we could uh you

[40:32] know work with you to to make it look a

[40:34] little more traditional and a building

[40:36] that um you know would would would

[40:40] complement uh Alpine. Uh al although I

[40:43] am also sensitive of the fact that that

[40:45] at some point Nick is uh probably and it

[40:48] sounds like perhaps sooner than later

[40:50] whatever that timeline is may put a

[40:51] family office building there and again

[40:53] knowing Nick I'm sure it'll be very nice

[40:55] and um by then we will almost certainly

[40:59] have guidelines in place that will be

[41:02] much more of a of a traditional you know

[41:06] Utah traditional look. And so, um, it

[41:09] just might be worth your while to think

[41:10] about since those guidelines will most

[41:12] likely be in place by the time, um,

[41:18] you folks come back for, uh, the family

[41:20] office, um, you might want to have this

[41:23] building tie into that.

[41:24] >> Sure.

[41:25] >> So, um, anyway, that's that's I

[41:27] appreciate that, JD. But, uh, you know,

[41:29] those are my thoughts. So, there any

[41:31] other questions for J JD, we can if

[41:33] there aren't, he can go ahead and take a

[41:34] seat and we can open up for discussion.

[41:37] How

[41:38] about the same thing? Just getting the

[41:40] brick there. And we've talked about

[41:42] doing the little black. It looks like

[41:43] you've done black windows as well. It

[41:44] just

[41:45] >> I think the black windows look great.

[41:47] >> Don't believe that this, but we really

[41:48] are working on a cohesive plan down Main

[41:51] Street. And we're we're going to get

[41:53] there. And I think that buildings like

[41:54] this that are right as you come off the

[41:57] roundabout, it'll really set that what

[41:59] we're looking for. And I think that

[42:00] building I'm sure you'll come up with

[42:02] something like fabulous. just those

[42:04] changes materials I think could still

[42:06] make this a beautiful building.

[42:08] >> Yeah, it is. Susan, and just so you

[42:09] know, I mean, we're we're right in the

[42:11] middle of of kind of intense

[42:14] meeting after meeting after meeting

[42:16] trying to get a consensus on the new

[42:18] fire station going in because again,

[42:20] we're trying to get those uh, you know,

[42:22] traditional elements of of um, you know,

[42:25] red brick and and again, I love your

[42:27] black framed windows and all that looks

[42:29] great and those are something that we're

[42:30] looking for as well. So, um, Even those

[42:34] little

[42:36] >> Jeze

[42:38] >> I I I think this has kind of elements of

[42:41] like the Ezra Lee building, the old car

[42:44] wash. I don't know if you're familiar

[42:45] with that building that they kind of

[42:47] did, but I drove past that today and

[42:49] they actually have it looked to me like

[42:51] kind of stone on the you know what I

[42:53] mean? They kind of sort of use those

[42:55] elements, but it still kind of

[42:59] >> Yeah, I it worked.

[43:00] >> Yeah. Well, I like this is right on Main

[43:02] Street. I mean, I love that it could

[43:04] really be a nice statement.

[43:06] >> Yeah. Yeah. The challenge I think

[43:07] oftentimes we run into is we forget that

[43:11] it's also a warehouse. And so, how do we

[43:13] balance

[43:14] >> um you know, making something more fancy

[43:17] than it needs to be as a warehouse and

[43:19] the cost even associated with doing

[43:21] that?

[43:21] >> Totally understand.

[43:22] >> Well, that's the problem with putting a

[43:23] warehouse on Main Street.

[43:24] >> Exactly.

[43:25] >> This is way off. you're going to have a

[43:26] building in front. But uh but to the

[43:28] extent that we can

[43:30] >> you know work with you on some forward

[43:32] thinking guidelines that will almost

[43:34] certainly be in place when

[43:36] >> you come back for the family office,

[43:38] it's it's worth making sure that this

[43:40] will tie

[43:43] >> what

[43:43] >> it makes your job so much easier. You

[43:45] know exactly what your you know some of

[43:47] the stuff is supposed to look like and

[43:48] you can go forward.

[43:49] >> Yeah. And I'm not suggesting because

[43:50] it's a warehouse we don't seek to find a way that it's beautiful and meets the

[43:55] standard. It's just the balancing act

[43:57] that an owner and a GC run is, you know,

[44:00] how do we make this cost effective as a

[44:02] warehouse and still meet the need?

[44:03] >> Sure,

[44:04] >> Kate.

[44:04] >> Yeah. I

[44:05] >> go ahead.

[44:06] >> No. Well, I it's just a rarity for a

[44:09] city to have a warehouse mixed in with a

[44:12] residential mixed in with

[44:15] a an commercial district. We are unique.

[44:18] And so we can't carve out a warehouse

[44:21] district and put it by I-15. And so

[44:25] that's

[44:26] >> where we're all trying.

[44:27] >> Basically what you're saying is we don't

[44:28] have industrial or light industrial

[44:30] anywhere in Alpine. So it is a bit of a

[44:32] unique you know application.

[44:34] >> Unfortunately you're kind of

[44:36] >> so it's going to have to be a fancy

[44:37] warehouse.

[44:39] >> Well you have a great owner that's wants

[44:40] to do right by the city.

[44:42] >> He's got class fine. Kaden, I have a JD

[44:45] brought up the point that he he's going

[44:47] for a site plan here. Does the elevation

[44:50] approval, design approval need to be

[44:52] part of that or can they be separated?

[44:54] >> From my understanding, you would need to

[44:56] put that as a condition if you want to

[44:58] approve today site plan that you want to

[45:00] see different changes in the elevations.

[45:04] >> Yeah.

[45:09] So again, I I would assume like most

[45:12] projects, time is money.

[45:15] >> So um let me let me just kind of put a

[45:18] hypothetical in front of you and then

[45:20] you know we'll we'll excuse you and and

[45:23] um and and we'll discuss. But I

[45:26] mentioned to you before and the reason I I ran you through that is there's a

[45:30] few different options, right? You know,

[45:31] today which is a motion to recommend

[45:33] with conditions. Well, sorry, a motion

[45:35] to recommend unconditionally. a motion

[45:36] to recommend with conditions. I think we

[45:38] certainly have conditions. Um or a

[45:40] motion to deny based on certain reasons.

[45:44] Um which and all of which then moves it

[45:46] on to city council. Um

[45:49] or there is a an option which is a

[45:53] motion to table.

[45:55] >> Um and and with that type of motion we

[45:59] would for example uh um you know again I I don't make motions. I just chair the

[46:05] meeting. But uh that type of motion

[46:07] would involve um talking to you again

[46:11] like we have today about design and

[46:13] mater more material change. We don't you

[46:16] know your design is fine. It's more the

[46:18] materials uh that would that that we

[46:21] would like to see. We could table it and

[46:22] then he have you back in a couple of

[46:24] weeks and then send it on to city

[46:27] council um with a recommendation at that

[46:32] point which would likely be

[46:34] recommendation to approve with maybe the

[46:36] landscape conditions you know said or

[46:38] maybe you would would revise the

[46:40] landscape um plan and uh it could end up

[46:44] going back to city council with a you

[46:46] know kind of an unconditional

[46:47] recommendation. Um otherwise it may you

[46:50] know would this be would would this be

[46:53] on what's the agenda look like for city

[46:55] council next week? Would this be on that

[46:57] agenda?

[46:58] >> That was the plan if you approved today

[47:00] as the recommending body. Yes.

[47:02] >> Okay. So but if it for example it it

[47:04] goes up there with a recommendation to

[47:07] deny because of the materials that are

[47:10] that you've the extra exterior materials

[47:12] that you've that you've used. um and

[47:14] city council agreed with that then I

[47:17] think it would correct me if I'm wrong

[47:19] Kaden but then it's going to basically

[47:21] say yeah we agree with planning

[47:23] commission go back and fix these things

[47:26] and then come back at which case it

[47:28] comes back to us and then back to them.

[47:30] So um again time is money and and I

[47:34] would imagine you folks want to keep

[47:35] this moving. Um perhaps the quickest way

[47:38] on this is a motion to table and we see

[47:41] again in a couple of weeks with um some

[47:44] plan revisions and at that point we um move it on to city council. So I I

[47:50] don't know your thought, you know, just

[47:51] perhaps your thoughts on that and maybe

[47:53] that that helps us know, you know, the

[47:55] direction we go with the motion because

[47:58] we do want to work with you. We like the

[47:59] project. We want you to be able to

[48:01] expand, but we also need to fulfill our

[48:03] obligations here with respect to the the

[48:05] fact that this is on Main Street and not

[48:07] just all sitting on 100 West.

[48:10] >> Is there is there a path forward where

[48:12] we adjust the site plan and some of

[48:15] those landscaping concerns, make some

[48:17] adjustments on that and do it out just

[48:20] send it to you and you guys determine,

[48:21] okay, we're comfortable moving it on

[48:23] still or do we got to circle back

[48:24] through?

[48:24] >> I think we have to do it in a we have to

[48:26] do it publicly in a meeting. Okay. But

[48:28] we will meet again in a couple of weeks

[48:29] and we'd make sure you're on the agenda.

[48:31] Okay. Well, sounds like that's probably

[48:33] the route we got to go.

[48:34] >> Okay.

[48:36] >> Any other questions that anybody has for

[48:38] JD?

[48:39] >> Bring some of some samples. Would you

[48:41] want that?

[48:41] >> Um, yeah. Would know. And yeah, it would

[48:44] be great to have samples. That that is

[48:46] often helpful to see them, feel them,

[48:49] etc.

[48:49] >> We need that little

[48:51] >> Yeah,

[48:51] >> we're not that creative up here.

[48:53] >> Um, okay.

[48:54] >> Okay.

[48:55] >> Excellent. Appreciate your your

[48:56] presentation. Thank you. Okay. Uh

[49:00] discussion.

[49:07] » I'm ready to make a motion if we're

[49:08] ready.

[49:09] >> Nice job.

[49:09] >> Oh, John.

[49:11] >> I make a motion. I don't know what we're

[49:13] calling this thing. Do you have your

[49:14] sample motions you can bring up?

[49:16] >> Let me pull it up. Yeah. One second.

[49:28] Okay. I move to table the uh approval or

[49:32] recommendation to approve of the

[49:35] proposed site plan for the new 512

[49:37] commercial building at 170 South Main

[49:40] Street,

[49:41] giving the applicant the opportunity to

[49:44] revise the design incorporating those

[49:47] materials that are um

[49:53] called out in the Gateway Historic

[49:56] District

[49:58] as as well as

[50:00] uh and those being the use of stone,

[50:03] brick, wood or stucco.

[50:07] Um

[50:10] also to modify the

[50:14] uh future building site

[50:17] uh to reflect

[50:21] a landscaping concept that would be used

[50:24] during an interim period.

[50:30] By the building site, do you mean that

[50:32] uh pad site the future right along Main

[50:35] Street? Yeah.

[50:35] >> Okay.

[50:36] >> Do we want to point out streetscaping

[50:38] specifically or I guess it's just

[50:40] landscaping is

[50:42] >> covers it.

[50:49] » Okay, John, you done with the motion?

[50:51] >> That's I thought you might be a little

[50:53] pensive there. No,

[50:54] >> I wasn't sure if there's one little

[50:55] bubble cloud.

[50:56] >> I was disappointed that no one jumped

[50:58] right in to second that motion. So,

[51:00] >> okay. Well, I hadn't because we we just

[51:02] weren't sure. You looked very

[51:04] thoughtful. Okay. Um, we have a motion

[51:07] uh by John McCay.

[51:09] >> Do we have a second?

[51:11] >> I'll second John.

[51:12] >> Okay, we have a second by Troyce Lade.

[51:14] All right. Discussion on the motion.

[51:18] » Marla, can you read back the motion?

[51:20] Let's just let's just hear the language.

[51:26] » I don't have all of it. Um I'm gonna

[51:28] have to go back and relisten to it. I

[51:30] have planning commission member John

[51:32] McCay move to table the proposed site

[51:34] plan for the new 512 building at 170

[51:37] South Main Street and ask the applicant

[51:39] to come back with the following. Then

[51:41] I'm going to go back and listen to all

[51:42] of his following statements.

[51:44] >> I wrote some stuff down.

[51:46] >> Repeat what he said. I wrote it down.

[51:50] >> Yeah. I I mean No, I think it was good.

[51:52] I think the only and I think it was

[51:54] clear enough. I think the only

[51:55] clarification would be if we thought

[51:56] there needed to be clarification would

[51:58] just be on the more or less landscaping

[52:03] the

[52:05] setback

[52:06] along Yeah. Main Street.

[52:09] >> But I think that was probably clear

[52:10] enough in the motion.

[52:11] >> I'll accept that if you want to make

[52:13] that.

[52:14] >> Okay. Well, I I I can't make it, but if

[52:16] somebody would like to

[52:17] >> that motion. So, so we don't want to use

[52:19] the streetscaping guidelines that they

[52:22] kind of set out those or just

[52:24] landscaping in general

[52:25] >> presently. They don't have any

[52:26] landscaping.

[52:28] >> So, just some just landscape that 15

[52:31] >> the 15 foot setback.

[52:34] >> But I'm sorry. But wouldn't wouldn't we though like if we just

[52:37] ignore any future building, wouldn't we

[52:39] require them to to go through that

[52:42] streetscaping stuff that we

[52:45] >> requiring?

[52:46] >> Well, no. like like just having having x

[52:49] amount of trees or x amount of what do

[52:51] they call them?

[52:52] >> Well, you know, yeah, we already went

[52:54] through the landscape plan and I think

[52:55] we we the trees, the bushes, the

[52:58] everything. I think that we I mean, we

[52:59] didn't go through them in depth, but I

[53:01] think we felt like they were fine.

[53:03] >> Okay.

[53:04] I mean, well,

[53:05] >> yeah,

[53:06] >> at least that hadn't been a discussion

[53:07] topic up to the meeting at this point

[53:10] that there was anything deficient in the

[53:12] landscape plan other than

[53:15] landscaping kind of a green belt in that

[53:19] 15 foot setback along Main Street. I

[53:21] think that's that was that was the only

[53:23] part of the plan that I heard anybody

[53:25] >> have an issue with.

[53:26] >> Yeah, me too.

[53:28] >> I mean, my point was just like because

[53:30] we've got specific things in the

[53:31] streetscape, you know what I'm saying?

[53:33] like, hey, places for people to kind of

[53:35] linger and, you know, benches and

[53:38] whatever. I I mean, do we just not do

[53:41] anything with that right now, right?

[53:48] I mean, if you're just asking my

[53:50] opinion, which just one, you know, an

[53:51] opinion one of five. I I think just

[53:54] based on the nature of this building,

[53:56] it's set way way back. It's a it's an

[53:59] addition to the warehouse. I understand

[54:01] its function. At some point, the owner

[54:05] sounds like he's going to build a family

[54:06] office right on Main Street, which, you

[54:09] know, knowing the owner will be, you

[54:12] know, top-notch and beautiful. And at

[54:13] that point, I think there will be those

[54:16] are some questions.

[54:17] >> Yeah, I think I I think so. I mean, I

[54:18] think that's at the point where you

[54:20] would, you know, talk about, you know,

[54:22] is there a walkway? You know, what's the

[54:24] vegetation around it? What are, you

[54:26] know, benches if anything?

[54:28] >> Um, that would just be my sense on that.

[54:30] Okay,

[54:31] >> I'm good with that.

[54:32] >> So, did did Troy did you want to um

[54:36] propose an amendment to John's motion to

[54:39] be a little more specific on landscaping

[54:42] the 15t setback of the future building

[54:46] site right along Main Street?

[54:50] >> Yeah. Okay. I think that's exactly what

[54:53] we ought to do. Just Yeah, the 15t along

[54:56] Main Street. I think we got to spell

[54:58] that out. Okay,

[54:59] >> spell it out.

[55:01] >> Um,

[55:02] >> or say what Alan said.

[55:03] >> Let's let's landscape the the 15 ft

[55:08] along that lines Main Street. Goes along

[55:12] Main Street. Okay. Uh, John, do you

[55:15] accept the

[55:17] >> amendment offered by Troy Slade?

[55:19] >> Yes.

[55:20] >> Okay. Uh we have a motion then by John

[55:24] McCay modified by um an amendment

[55:28] profered by Troy Slade. Any discussion

[55:32] on the motion and the amendment that uh

[55:36] John accepted?

[55:39] >> Could we um could we add that they have

[55:44] if they we really feel like it should be

[55:46] locked off? Can we add that it's a, you

[55:50] know, a black simple little gate rather

[55:53] than a chain in padlock?

[55:56] >> Uh, yeah, but we'll see that we'll see

[55:59] this again in a couple of weeks.

[56:00] >> Okay.

[56:01] >> And so if you know if if that's still

[56:04] the same and the concern still exists,

[56:05] perhaps that could be a condition of uh

[56:08] of the the recommendation that goes to

[56:12] city council. That work for you,

[56:14] Michelle? Is that regarding the kid the

[56:16] school people parking there? Is that

[56:18] what you're

[56:18] >> Well, that's why they have it is because

[56:21] of overspill.

[56:23] >> He thinks it's ugly.

[56:24] >> Yeah. But just have it so that like this

[56:26] is it's

[56:27] >> Yeah. If if we feel that I just Yeah. I

[56:30] mean the church gets used by, you know,

[56:33] lots of people the knot and pine and

[56:35] they haven't gone so far to padlock off

[56:38] their entrances. I just it's I tried to

[56:42] pull in as I was looking at the building

[56:45] today and drove all around and walked

[56:47] all around and I don't know it's it's it

[56:52] if if we feel that it's necessary for

[56:54] their safety and their business maybe.

[56:58] >> Well, this is just and I'm not going to put words into JD's

[57:02] mouth, but I mean what I sense will

[57:04] happen is that'll probably come down. I

[57:07] mean like like once everything goes

[57:09] through and they start construction I

[57:10] mean they that's probably comes down

[57:13] they they build everything put the

[57:16] parking lot in curbs etc. And my sense

[57:19] is that's probably a different mechanism

[57:22] right

[57:22] >> if at all at that point that

[57:24] >> and maybe it's not a problem at that

[57:25] point.

[57:25] >> Yeah I think so. So I don't think it's

[57:27] anything we can handle at this moment. I just think okay so we have a motion

[57:32] and an amendment uh by Troy accepted by

[57:35] John. Any discussion?

[57:38] Okay. All in favor of the motion to

[57:40] table say I.

[57:41] >> I.

[57:41] Any opposed?

[57:44] >> Okay. The motion to table passes

[57:45] unanimously. Thank you to the commission

[57:47] and JD. Thank you for the presentation.

[57:50] >> Um and hey any any questions you might

[57:53] have with respect to

[57:55] you know materials look. I mean

[57:58] >> have you know Nick knows me well. Have

[58:00] Nick give me a call or you and Nick can

[58:02] give me a call or happy to meet with uh

[58:04] you gentlemen. um

[58:07] pass on. I mean, you know, try to try to help you get into our crazy heads

[58:10] about, you know, what we're looking as a

[58:12] go forward for, you know, Alpine Design

[58:14] Standards. But, uh, happy to work with

[58:16] you on that because, you know, I think

[58:17] we all like the project.

[58:18] >> Yeah.

[58:20] >> Okay. Thank you, sir.

[58:21] >> Good luck, guys. It's going to be great.

[58:23] >> Thanks.

[58:23] >> See you in a couple of weeks.

[58:26] >> Okay. Um,

[58:29] >> yeah. Thank you, everybody. Appreciate

[58:30] it. Um, nice, folks. Uh, all right,

[58:33] Kaden, we don't have any other items,

[58:34] right? All right. I have a quick I'm not

[58:36] going to belabor the point, but it's

[58:37] right along these same lines. Um, I

[58:42] have a special

[58:45] communication for all of you.

[58:46] >> Yes,

[58:47] >> John. It's like, what is this? And it

[58:49] will not take very long. Uh, Kaden, can

[58:52] you pull up the slide the slides? And basically, it's this, right? I mean,

[58:57] we spent a lot of time uh going through

[58:59] that small area plan and in particular,

[59:02] we discussed a lot. We made

[59:03] recommendations to the uh city council

[59:06] for revisions to the small area plan.

[59:09] And based on those revisions to the

[59:12] small area plan, which is a non-binding

[59:14] document, I think that then opens the

[59:15] door for us to go and and uh propose

[59:18] amendments to the Gayway historic

[59:20] district design guidelines. And just,

[59:22] you know, I'll I'll just pass this up

[59:24] and down. John already looked at it, but

[59:25] if you look at the current guidelines,

[59:28] uh, you know, we we we delineate

[59:30] specific materials,

[59:32] um, looks, although it could be a lot

[59:36] tighter, right? But we also have some

[59:38] photographs in there. So, you know, I I

[59:41] think once we get just the basic

[59:43] revisions to the small area plan and if it if again if the city council

[59:49] adopts our recommendations, then I think

[59:51] that opens the door for us to then come

[59:52] and work on revisions to these

[59:54] guidelines, tighten this up, make this a

[59:57] document that's workable for, you know,

[59:59] the next few decades and put some very

[1:00:01] specific language around it and, you

[1:00:05] know, that is materials, that is design,

[1:00:09] um, what would you call them, Troy? I

[1:00:11] mean, design.

[1:00:12] >> Yeah, just elements.

[1:00:13] >> Elements. Um

[1:00:15] >> um

[1:00:15] >> looks I mean just all around again

[1:00:17] >> elements, I guess.

[1:00:18] >> Yeah. Ju just just to help really guide

[1:00:20] both the city and future, you know,

[1:00:23] developers around, you know, what we're

[1:00:25] looking for. So,

[1:00:27] >> um yeah, exactly.

[1:00:28] >> Never had clarity. And so, if you hand

[1:00:30] that to him and if JD was looking at it

[1:00:32] as it is now, he's like, "Huh?"

[1:00:35] >> He kind of feel sad for

[1:00:36] >> Well, it's it's Yeah, you know. Yeah,

[1:00:38] I've I've been on the commission for 10

[1:00:40] years and I mean it's just we have those

[1:00:42] guidelines and you just sort of see a

[1:00:43] real hodgepodge of buildings in Alpine

[1:00:45] and a lot and a lot of these things

[1:00:46] happened before any of the present you

[1:00:48] know mayor, city council, planning

[1:00:50] commission was here but you know I think

[1:00:52] our job is is to help you know provide a

[1:00:55] document that will give guidance going

[1:00:56] forward. So, that being said, you know,

[1:00:58] we've talked a little bit about a an

[1:01:00] architectural

[1:01:02] um concept that we've just sort of, for

[1:01:05] lack of a better term, called Utah

[1:01:07] traditional, right? I don't know that

[1:01:09] that's really a thing in any architect,

[1:01:11] you know, handbooks, you know, or, you

[1:01:13] know, school books that you'll ever see.

[1:01:15] But um you know maybe we can you know

[1:01:17] again we can perhaps you know AI this

[1:01:20] thing or chat GPT it or or you know work

[1:01:22] with a little bit of a an architectural

[1:01:24] consultant and kind of come up with the

[1:01:26] right language around this. But I just

[1:01:29] wanted to to just um just chat with the

[1:01:33] commission a little bit about uh you

[1:01:35] know maybe going forward there's going

[1:01:37] to be a time when we're going to work on

[1:01:38] this and I think it would be good to

[1:01:40] more or less have a ju just just a um

[1:01:45] file of

[1:01:48] buildings or design elements that we

[1:01:50] think look nice that will stand the test

[1:01:53] of time that would fit in with some of

[1:01:55] the current buildings

[1:01:57] >> that are both in Alpine and in

[1:01:59] surrounding neighborhoods, American

[1:02:01] Fork, Lehi, uh, Cedar Hills, and

[1:02:03] Pleasant Grove in particular, and come

[1:02:06] up with. So, I I just took a few

[1:02:08] pictures of some of the a little more

[1:02:10] traditional looking buildings we

[1:02:12] currently have in Alpine. So, the last

[1:02:14] one was again, go backwards if you know

[1:02:16] the other way if you would. So, uh,

[1:02:18] yeah, one more.

[1:02:19] >> No, the other way. Yeah, one more. So,

[1:02:21] that's just, you know, again, we know

[1:02:23] the building. I just, you know, Yeah.

[1:02:25] traditional red brick. windows. Look how

[1:02:28] nice black windows would be in that.

[1:02:29] >> Yeah, black windows would make that a

[1:02:31] lot nicer. Again, there there's, you

[1:02:33] know, there's not too many design

[1:02:35] elements on that like we'll see in some

[1:02:37] other buildings, right? If there were a

[1:02:38] few more design elements,

[1:02:40] >> right?

[1:02:40] >> But yeah, but but you know, you could

[1:02:43] like I think Sue makes a great point.

[1:02:47] You know, next time they update their

[1:02:49] windows, right? I mean, put some black

[1:02:51] frame windows for example and and

[1:02:53] perhaps some uh um overhangs over the

[1:02:55] windows or some you know,

[1:02:58] >> some design elements and you totally

[1:02:59] transform that building because the red

[1:03:01] brick will will look good for a hundred

[1:03:03] years.

[1:03:04] >> And historical traditional has vertical

[1:03:07] windows.

[1:03:07] >> Yes, exactly.

[1:03:08] >> Yeah.

[1:03:09] >> Bring it up and

[1:03:11] >> All right, Kate. Next one.

[1:03:12] >> It's nice detail underneath.

[1:03:14] >> Yeah, the little corbals.

[1:03:15] >> Yeah, that looks soft or whatever.

[1:03:17] >> Yeah. So, just again another red brick

[1:03:19] building and and you know, if if at some

[1:03:21] point somebody wants to do a little

[1:03:23] renovation of building, you know what?

[1:03:24] The red brick stays looks great. And

[1:03:26] then there could be, you know, perhaps

[1:03:27] something over the windows or other

[1:03:29] little design elements, but the basics

[1:03:31] of the building look good. Okay, next

[1:03:32] one.

[1:03:34] >> Um, I think this is the Ezra Lee

[1:03:35] building. We can look at several. Oh,

[1:03:36] let me that's what what I wanted to show

[1:03:38] you here is some of the buildings we'll

[1:03:40] look at. I think that that it's just too

[1:03:43] much uninterrupted

[1:03:45] wall exterior wall all on the same

[1:03:47] plane, right? I think what looks I mean

[1:03:49] obviously Ezra Lee is top architect and

[1:03:52] designer in the state but you know this

[1:03:54] just a nice building right with it with

[1:03:56] the brick

[1:03:57] >> um you've got a covering there you've

[1:04:00] got these tall rectangular uh you know

[1:04:02] dark framed windows

[1:04:03] >> piece of material

[1:04:04] >> and it's a modern look but yet but

[1:04:07] traditional that this will look 50 years

[1:04:09] exactly

[1:04:10] >> what's interesting is this front piece

[1:04:12] that forms the five peak or whatever

[1:04:15] that's all faux there's nothing behind

[1:04:17] it. That's a faux um because they did

[1:04:21] that in saloons and stuff, right? They

[1:04:23] had the faux front so it looked bigger

[1:04:25] than it really was.

[1:04:26] >> You could do that on top of a building,

[1:04:27] right? And and and it would it adds

[1:04:29] interest and height when there's really

[1:04:31] a flat roof behind it.

[1:04:33] >> Exactly. So, you know, ultimately if if

[1:04:35] we're looking at a revision of these

[1:04:36] guidelines, we talk about, you know,

[1:04:38] overhangs, you know, framed windows,

[1:04:40] there's little little, you know,

[1:04:41] interesting little concrete.

[1:04:43] >> I'm not an architect. whatever you call

[1:04:45] the piece above the window, but that

[1:04:46] parapit, right, that that takes and

[1:04:48] otherwise, you know, would would have

[1:04:50] just been a flat straight roof, but it

[1:04:52] breaks that up. And again, it's faux.

[1:04:54] There's nothing behind it, but it it it

[1:04:57] just really makes the building pop.

[1:05:00] >> So,

[1:05:00] >> okay, next one.

[1:05:02] >> Um, again, just again interesting

[1:05:04] elements to to Troy's point, design

[1:05:07] elements. You see the lights, you see

[1:05:09] the overhangs,

[1:05:10] >> and if the fire station had that, it

[1:05:12] might be great, you know.

[1:05:13] >> Exactly. and and and that stuff's

[1:05:14] probably not all that expensive, right?

[1:05:16] But but it's the small touches that that make it look so nice. And u All

[1:05:20] right, next one. Um okay, so again, a

[1:05:24] traditional bu building, red brick, but

[1:05:25] you know, you can continue to design a

[1:05:27] city around that. Um all right, let's go

[1:05:30] to the next one. I think we're going to

[1:05:32] go outside of the city now. Okay, these

[1:05:35] are

[1:05:36] >> I think Okay, these are down in Pleasant

[1:05:38] Grove, right? And that's, you know, with

[1:05:40] this, like I like the red brick. You

[1:05:42] know, those windows look nice both on

[1:05:44] the upper story and below. You've kind

[1:05:46] of got that nice design element. The the

[1:05:48] cover over the windows. Um, you see

[1:05:51] those, you know, windows up high on the

[1:05:52] side. The the the corner there, it juts

[1:05:55] out a little bit, so you just don't have

[1:05:56] just a solid boring wall. But again,

[1:05:59] nicely done. That building will look

[1:06:01] nice decades from now. And and again, we

[1:06:04] can just pop through the rest. And um

[1:06:06] you know, I mean that one I I that one I

[1:06:08] like the brick. I thought, you know,

[1:06:10] >> it's kind of the back of the building.

[1:06:12] It could have done a little more. And I

[1:06:13] mean, that's almost looks more like a

[1:06:14] jail, you know, like like a 19th century

[1:06:17] jail, but it is the backside, right?

[1:06:19] >> Put soldier bricks above the windows.

[1:06:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. There's something there. So,

[1:06:22] yeah.

[1:06:23] >> So, this is more like the front of that

[1:06:24] building, right? Where they they do make

[1:06:26] it a little nicer.

[1:06:27] >> Was this going to get a sign above the

[1:06:29] awning?

[1:06:29] >> Yeah, probably.

[1:06:30] >> Because you can see a light. Break that

[1:06:32] up.

[1:06:32] >> Looks like a little Yeah.

[1:06:34] >> Yeah. There's something a little hang I

[1:06:35] think they're waiting for a sign. Yeah.

[1:06:38] >> All right, Kaden. Next.

[1:06:40] >> Um Oh, somewhere back. That's just

[1:06:42] >> That's just Ezra Lee. Yeah. So, we can

[1:06:45] go on from there.

[1:06:47] >> I want to go see the fire station you

[1:06:48] keep talking about in Cedar Hill.

[1:06:50] >> Oh, I need to Yeah, I need to just

[1:06:53] >> Oh, yeah. These are the last few then

[1:06:54] we'll be done with these. So, I just

[1:06:56] took a picture. This Oh, so this is uh

[1:06:59] this is Cedar Hills and it's right

[1:07:01] behind the Walmart. These are these are

[1:07:03] Ezra buildings and it's right on the

[1:07:06] roundabout. Yeah. Yeah. So again, nice

[1:07:08] brick um you know you know again some

[1:07:11] elements around the windows

[1:07:13] >> uh that the rectangular black frame

[1:07:15] window next caden

[1:07:17] >> and again that's a nice design element.

[1:07:19] So for example if we had wood right if

[1:07:21] that's you know like that would be nice

[1:07:22] as a wood support with that canopy you

[1:07:24] know over an entrance.

[1:07:26] >> Look at the nice molding on the roof

[1:07:27] >> cornice top. Yeah. So those are just

[1:07:30] these item we want to think about like a

[1:07:31] you know coronus a paraput um again they

[1:07:34] take the building and you can also

[1:07:36] notice they do a little brick um you

[1:07:38] know above that uh that that covering

[1:07:41] >> they made them

[1:07:41] >> there's a design with the brick

[1:07:43] >> called soldier style that's what John

[1:07:45] Wow how'd you guys know that

[1:07:47] >> I'm such a cretton I'm a peasant I don't

[1:07:49] know these things

[1:07:50] >> looks like they're standing in attention

[1:07:53] >> yes there you go but see how they pop

[1:07:54] that next building out you know a couple

[1:07:56] of feet to just break up the plane so

[1:07:59] And then and then the that door is a

[1:08:00] little indented. So, you know, that's a

[1:08:02] nice design element

[1:08:04] >> for sure.

[1:08:04] >> Um and yeah, and so Oh, this is I think

[1:08:09] this is the pleasant grove. But I

[1:08:10] thought that that's really pretty,

[1:08:11] right? The way they've got the lower

[1:08:12] windows, the upper windows that uh um

[1:08:16] covering, you know, between the first

[1:08:18] and second floors. So um I think those

[1:08:20] are just you know when you're out and

[1:08:22] around if you see you know buildings

[1:08:24] both inside and outside of Alpine that

[1:08:27] oh you know some more right where the

[1:08:29] elevation is very interesting because it

[1:08:31] pops out and a few different materials

[1:08:33] so

[1:08:34] >> cohesive with the

[1:08:35] >> yeah very yeah exactly

[1:08:36] >> right look at how different that is

[1:08:38] >> and you see those concrete elements

[1:08:40] above the windows and you know

[1:08:43] >> so you know I just say when you're out

[1:08:44] and around if we start building a

[1:08:45] library of of samples because ultimately

[1:08:49] I would like to incorporate

[1:08:51] >> the the examples that would be most

[1:08:55] helpful to future city councils and

[1:08:59] planning commissions and developers as

[1:09:01] they're trying to figure out well go

[1:09:03] >> what do they want in Alpine right

[1:09:05] >> if we if if we had

[1:09:08] ultimately I think we'll be sitting here

[1:09:10] looking at 30 40 50 different you know

[1:09:15] pictures

[1:09:16] >> narrowing it down to you know 10 or so

[1:09:18] 10 or 12 or what, however many with

[1:09:21] pictures of certain elements that we can

[1:09:22] describe and provide illustrations for

[1:09:25] and really just give a road map to to

[1:09:27] you know future city planners.

[1:09:28] >> It's going to be your legacy.

[1:09:30] >> I went out to John

[1:09:32] >> knowing how we operate. I might be dead.

[1:09:33] >> Yeah. During that last meeting, John

[1:09:36] mentioned Pasa Robas as that he found

[1:09:39] that on the web as we were kind of all

[1:09:41] googling and I went back to that website

[1:09:43] to their city website and they have a

[1:09:45] very intense um design guidelines. They

[1:09:49] have standards and they have guidelines

[1:09:51] and they're very clear that standards

[1:09:54] are a must, right? Like your setbacks

[1:09:56] and then they have guidelines. Now they

[1:09:59] have differences because they're they

[1:10:02] have Victorian style. They have Spanish

[1:10:05] revival or mission you would call it

[1:10:06] mission style and then they have the red

[1:10:09] brick style. So they have defined

[1:10:12] whereas we really only have one. We

[1:10:14] don't have much Victorian around here.

[1:10:17] We don't have really any at all. And

[1:10:18] there's of course no Spanish, no tile

[1:10:20] roofs and that. But it was very they're

[1:10:23] they have a great PDF and a great um

[1:10:27] it's easy to find if you go to their

[1:10:29] city website and Google their and they have defined their areas right

[1:10:35] because they're a big city. So if you

[1:10:37] just kind of concentrate on their main

[1:10:40] street master plan, I think they call it

[1:10:42] something like that,

[1:10:43] >> then it gives you an idea of you really

[1:10:46] can set standards which were signs and

[1:10:49] setbacks and a few things and then they

[1:10:52] had guidelines.

[1:10:53] >> Yeah, that'd be great. I mean, if we can model what we do Yeah. If we

[1:10:57] can model what we do after,

[1:10:59] >> you know, again, I mean,

[1:11:02] >> it's always easy to edit someone else's

[1:11:04] work.

[1:11:05] >> Yeah, exactly. And I I found that the

[1:11:07] city of Boise

[1:11:09] um

[1:11:11] made an effort to create a historic

[1:11:13] district design guidelines and and even

[1:11:16] Salt Lake City has as well both in

[1:11:19] ordinance form. Um they they talked in

[1:11:24] generalities

[1:11:25] about

[1:11:27] keeping an alternating height

[1:11:31] look going on as you as you put

[1:11:33] buildings next to each other. They also

[1:11:35] talked about the relief that Allan has

[1:11:37] talked about. Um,

[1:11:40] but outside of some of those things that

[1:11:42] none of them got into details.

[1:11:45] Um, and so from that standpoint, I

[1:11:48] didn't think they were very helpful. I

[1:11:50] hope that whatever we come up with will

[1:11:52] I mean I I would think that a a nice

[1:11:54] little touch would be saying every red

[1:11:56] brick building needs to have a concrete

[1:11:58] lentil above the windows.

[1:12:00] >> Yeah.

[1:12:01] >> I mean if that

[1:12:01] >> John you got all the terms listened to

[1:12:03] you.

[1:12:04] went on the whole street.

[1:12:06] >> Oh, soldier soldier bricks

[1:12:09] >> and black black light fixtures like just

[1:12:12] things like that that pop on brick.

[1:12:14] >> Yeah.

[1:12:14] >> Oh, yeah. Exactly.

[1:12:15] >> That's more prescriptive than any other

[1:12:17] city has ever tried to do. But I think

[1:12:19] >> Well, we're so small. We It's okay. We

[1:12:22] don't

[1:12:22] >> throw some lentils up. Throw some

[1:12:24] soldiers in. Couple couple of historic

[1:12:26] lamps.

[1:12:27] >> No, you're bragging.

[1:12:29] >> We got it. We got this.

[1:12:32] >> All right. All right. Well, John's going

[1:12:33] to be in charge of the document, so

[1:12:35] because because he's got all the lingo.

[1:12:37] Okay. I don't want to belabor the point,

[1:12:38] but uh No, I think that's uh um um No, I

[1:12:43] thought this will actually like that was just I just remember when we

[1:12:46] went back through those guidelines a few

[1:12:47] years ago. It was just so painful and

[1:12:50] such a battle, but we're trying to work with kind of an

[1:12:54] unworkable document. But it it would be

[1:12:56] really fun to put something so much

[1:12:58] better in place and kind of have that be

[1:13:00] a bit of our bit of our legacy to the

[1:13:02] city going forward. So that would be

[1:13:03] good.

[1:13:04] >> You're saving the people so much like

[1:13:06] saving their time and their money just

[1:13:09] they're going to see like these are our

[1:13:10] guidelines and look how much fun we can

[1:13:12] have with it

[1:13:12] >> because that cost them a fair bit of

[1:13:14] money just to come up with what they

[1:13:16] did. I'm sure.

[1:13:17] >> Yeah. Then if you build a home you

[1:13:18] better bring all this stuff up and if it

[1:13:19] gets denied I it's so nice to be like

[1:13:22] this is so workable because I kind of

[1:13:24] have a what is and isn't.

[1:13:27] >> You know what? I've

[1:13:29] >> Yeah.

[1:13:32] And if I may just jump in real

[1:13:33] quick just as and I know the whole

[1:13:35] commission already knows this, but the

[1:13:37] small area plan that you've worked so

[1:13:38] diligently on

[1:13:40] >> is a guiding document. It isn't the

[1:13:43] ordinance as you all know.

[1:13:45] >> And so the discussion you're having

[1:13:47] today, I think is really important as

[1:13:48] going forward once the city council

[1:13:50] adopts that small area plan as a guiding

[1:13:53] document. the ordinances that you want

[1:13:55] to put in place, adding lentils, as John

[1:13:57] says, above the windows and things like

[1:13:59] that, that would have to be in the

[1:14:00] ordinance. It probably wouldn't be

[1:14:02] specified enough in the small area plan.

[1:14:04] >> Right. Yeah.

[1:14:04] >> Right.

[1:14:05] >> No, I I I agree with that. I mean, I

[1:14:06] think there's, you know, I've had some

[1:14:08] discussions with a couple city council

[1:14:09] members who feel like, for example, that

[1:14:12] we need more specificity

[1:14:16] from the planning commission on their

[1:14:18] recommendations to the small area plan.

[1:14:20] And I'm just not sure that's accurate. I

[1:14:23] mean because it again it's a guiding

[1:14:26] document for sure and perhaps there

[1:14:28] going to be a little more meat on the

[1:14:29] bone but ultimately when we kind of take

[1:14:32] you know basically some of those broad

[1:14:36] recommendations to the small area plan

[1:14:38] but then really flesh them out in the

[1:14:40] actual binding

[1:14:42] uh document that is going to be the

[1:14:45] ordinance right and the the um gateway

[1:14:48] historic district I think that's where

[1:14:50] we really you know because again we'll

[1:14:52] work on that and then provide that final

[1:14:54] document to city council. So I think I

[1:14:57] think you know Kaden to your point that

[1:15:00] specificity really will the small area

[1:15:04] plan will just give us the ability to go

[1:15:06] back with more specificity to amend and

[1:15:09] then present um a revised uh gateway

[1:15:13] historic plan. So yeah and and I would

[1:15:17] imagine we'll discuss that a little bit

[1:15:18] tomorrow. So, by the way, on this

[1:15:21] commission, who will be at the the um

[1:15:24] joint planning commission city council

[1:15:26] meeting tomorrow? 3:30 to 5.

[1:15:29] >> Yeah, pretty sure I can be there.

[1:15:31] >> Okay, I'll be there as well.

[1:15:32] >> I'll try.

[1:15:33] >> Okay,

[1:15:34] >> you be there, John.

[1:15:34] >> Uh yeah, I think we you know.

[1:15:37] >> Okay. Yeah, no worries. Just let me

[1:15:38] know. Yeah, Greg and and John are or

[1:15:40] John uh Greg and Jeff are both out of

[1:15:43] town. So, um All right. Well, we'll see

[1:15:45] you tomorrow. All right. Last thing on

[1:15:47] here is anybody a chance to go through

[1:15:48] the minutes and do an approval.

[1:15:51] >> Did we did we get new minutes? I didn't

[1:15:53] have all of our motions.

[1:15:55] >> We're we're approving for two weeks.

[1:15:57] >> The other one was not This is the only

[1:16:01] >> This is the one

[1:16:04] >> the March 31st. That's correct. It was

[1:16:06] not approved yet. Is that right?

[1:16:09] >> I forgot about that. I apologize.

[1:16:15] » Yeah.

[1:16:16] Okay. Um, yeah. So, all right. We'll do

[1:16:20] want to go ahead and and uh then do a

[1:16:22] motion to approve these minutes. Uh, but

[1:16:24] also just make a note that we're still

[1:16:26] looking for prior meeting minutes.

[1:16:29] >> Is that where we are?

[1:16:30] >> Y.

[1:16:31] >> Okay.

[1:16:34] >> Oh, I um I approve the minutes from May

[1:16:39] 5th, 2026

[1:16:42] of planning commission meeting as written.

[1:16:46] >> Okay. Have a motion to approve the

[1:16:48] minutes by Michelle Shurmer. Do I have a

[1:16:50] second?

[1:16:51] >> Second.

[1:16:51] by I I think Suz beat you to it.

[1:16:55] So second by Suz Wittenberg. All in

[1:16:57] favor?

[1:16:58] >> I uh with the with the caveat that

[1:17:01] perhaps next time Kaden we can take a

[1:17:03] look at the

[1:17:04] >> Yes.

[1:17:05] >> Whatever whatever meeting minutes we

[1:17:06] still need to uh review and approve.

[1:17:08] >> March 31st.

[1:17:09] >> Okay. March.

[1:17:10] >> That was my first day here and I

[1:17:11] actually didn't come to that meeting.

[1:17:12] >> We're not hold that.

[1:17:13] >> I'll put that on you. You said you

[1:17:14] passed.

[1:17:15] >> We We blame Ryan. Okay. Cuz he's not

[1:17:18] here. It's easiest. All right. Uh,

[1:17:20] anything else?

[1:17:23] >> Entertain a motion to adjurnn.

[1:17:25] >> I move we adjourn this meeting.

[1:17:27] >> All right. We have a motion to adjurnn

[1:17:30] by Suz Wittenberg. Do we have a second?

[1:17:32] >> All in favor? I

6.2.26 Planning Commission Meeting

Transcript