[2:07] Good evening, everyone. Today is Thursday, August 27th. The meeting is being recorded on broadcast live by Wacca TV. And live streamed on Facebook, remote participation is available. Using the Zoom video, confidence and platform, any disruptions with our video, confidence and platform will result in the platform being shot down, meetings will continue to be broadcast on Wacca TV and live streamed on Facebook. Right. First point of order, we have, um,

[2:37] chair and clerk's report. I have nothing to report out.

[2:45] Okay, then we, um, we have any public comment that we should address before we start on the top.

[2:54] What's the name?

[2:55] Who is?

[2:56] An eraser.

[2:57] Okay.

[2:58] Go ahead, Anna.

[3:02] Hey, Paul. I'm just making sure you're aware that I'm sick and attending remotely.

[3:08] Yeah.

[3:08] Just for attendance purposes. Thank you.

[3:11] Thank you.

[3:11] Okay,

[3:15] since we have very few people in the audience today, and nobody's speaking up online.

[3:21] I guess we'll jump into the first order of the public hearings.

[3:26] I can read this one.

[3:29] We'll read it again.

[3:30] We'll read it again.

[3:31] Gotcha.

[3:32] Okay, so first topic.

[3:33] Tonight is our 167169 Pleasant Street Site Plan Review.

[3:48] Well, everybody, Jim McDonald on the owner of 167, 169 in Fuzz and Street, just here.

[3:55] I think there's some follow-up questions.

[3:57] I submitted a kind of updated rendering that shows the farmers' forces that were asked for by the neighbors,

[4:05] and proved by the ZBA and my meetings with them.

[4:09] So that seemed that from the follow-up that you want to see some newer renderings of the front.

[4:18] So, and I did a very true, I couldn't get a new red ring showing the connection of the dryways

[4:23] with the two, but I did a crude rendition of it so that you can see how they tie our ties in,

[4:29] colored on the smaller 8 by 11 is, has that the overview, has the kind of how the dry

[4:35] it will be to curb cuts and how that would tie in.

[4:41] So, and I'm just here to answer any of the follow-up questions.

[4:49] This refreshments, this is already gone through the VA as a non-confirming one.

[4:56] And the only thing we're dealing with is the six parking spaces to the extra curb cut, go through.

[5:07] That was one of the things the ZBA asks for to reduce it down to two from three.

[5:13] So my original plan that I brought to them had three, so we connected to serve two purposes

[5:19] to limit the curb cuts and to allow that 167B to be able to back out and turn around

[5:29] in the main drive way so that they can pull up forward, so that was kind of the reasons

[5:35] that the ZBA gave concerns about, so that's, so the rent this rendering is how to date.

[5:41] That reminder is out of date. I couldn't get them to do a new one, but there's an 8x11 that you have there that shows

[5:48] crudely by hand, I drew in how it's kind of way out.

[5:54] Yep, exactly.

[5:58] Oh, I don't. Sure. I just went for one and each. Thank you.

[6:03] I just probably just lost in my pile.

[6:07] So, not perfect, but it did an idea.

[6:10] Yeah.

[6:14] Yeah, so I think this, oh, I'll show that you go ahead. No, sorry, it's heavy.

[6:18] So, this is going to be the new correct.

[6:22] This is your practice.

[6:23] Yeah.

[6:27] All that is on the site plan that I submitted before it shows all that, but this is just a little

[6:31] more colorful easier to kind of visualize.

[6:39] I was going to say that I went over, I drove over to the site and just took a look at things.

[6:46] The back building is the one that's being kind of renovated, which looks like it's a job

[6:51] even though you're keeping it.

[6:55] And the front building is being taken down and rebuilt.

[6:59] Yep.

[7:00] It looks like a good call.

[7:02] Yeah, yeah.

[7:03] We try to keep the look of the house the same.

[7:05] And it kind of has similar roof lines.

[7:09] And we added the portrait just because we're out quite a few on that road.

[7:13] And the board thought it was a good idea.

[7:14] The neighbors kind of preferred it.

[7:16] So just keeping keeping.

[7:18] So that's why we added the promise.

[7:19] And as soon as part of the renovation, all the sites all being cleaned up.

[7:22] completely cleaned up. We're just wrapping up with conservation, but we're going to hand

[7:27] remove everything from the yoke.

[7:30] We're going to go in there until we kind of go to approvals to do the rules of control. So we're going to do some evasive mitigation, some evasive species and some replanting and some restoration of a little area of that.

[7:45] Kind of kind of all be part of that N.O.I. with them.

[7:49] All my work for the most part except for that clean out and evasive repair is all outside the hundred foot zone, but inside the 200 foot zone.

[7:57] Yeah, and then after you, just as an explanation and shared Jasmine, I still did, and after you had left, I watched it as well.

[8:06] Okay, yeah, there was just like, wait a minute, no one seemed to have an issue with this project, but there's just a process according to the by-laws that we have to go through.

[8:16] And we kind of skipped out a little bit, so that was a little bit of the, hey, let's make sure we see everything, make sure we kind of check the boxes, yeah, so that, so that it can just go, you know, go ahead.

[8:34] I mean, obviously, like I said before, I think, and especially now seeing the site, I think it's very nice to potentially replace what's there with an equal number but a very nice

[8:46] place to live. So I think that's great. It's a civil. Yeah. Yeah. So, when do you think of

[8:55] you to start it? Soon as possible. So I'll go back the 14th is my final meeting with

[9:02] conservation. I'm pretty sure we're just finishing the stormwater and a few

[9:07] questions that they had of the last meeting. So I'm hoping that's the last thing.

[9:12] We're pretty much have our construction loan in place and so we're ready to go.

[9:16] I'll have to submit the permit application again, but my hope is, like I'm worried, but you know, maybe end this up time, but we'll start as soon as soon as I get a permit.

[9:33] You have a vote again.

[9:34] You have to have a vote.

[9:36] You have a draft decision to review as well.

[9:40] So we're going to need to open that for public comment, kind of officially.

[9:45] Don't think we're going to see a lot of public comment.

[9:47] I'm just going to pop a comment and I don't really want to go to the next page.

[9:51] No, I do it tonight. Can you take the closer to me?

[9:55] Just the process for me.

[9:56] Would you just say it to a public comment?

[10:00] Okay, is there any public comment to the 167 169 plus in the street?

[10:13] No.

[10:14] No.

[10:14] What are you going to raise tonight?

[10:16] Okay.

[10:21] Did you want to review the draft decision and then you can vote?

[10:26] Yes, about we usually do.

[10:31] What we usually do, Paul, is we can, we have to, we'll have to close the public hearing

[10:38] before we vote, all right, so first we close that, but typically we like to just leave

[10:43] it open as long as possible and case someone has a last minute question or comment that

[10:48] we'd like to hear.

[10:48] So we generally our habit is to kind of just leave it open, we get all our discussion out,

[10:54] then we, then we close the public comment and then by that time we're basically ready to vote.

[10:59] though we could pause it at that time and have more discussion if we wanted to.

[11:04] The purpose for that is because you can't accept any new information once you've closed the public hearing.

[11:09] You can close the hearing and the board may deliberate.

[11:12] But if you had a applicant had a comment, he wouldn't be able to make even a correction.

[11:17] You had already closed the hearing, which is why that's the general practice.

[11:21] How'd you?

[11:22] All right, what else can I also recommend?

[11:25] Yeah, if you'd like to go to, I think if you'd be helpful to go through the decision while it's open.

[11:29] if you don't have any comments, then you just took a close and then you took a close to.

[11:34] So let's go to the, you know, try to the decision.

[11:53] This is what's going to start to down.

[11:55] Jen here.

[11:55] How are we doing this?

[11:57] Yeah.

[11:58] But I won't be, so let's, let's do it.

[12:02] But it's not like, this is not like the last time.

[12:04] Oh, yeah.

[12:05] Yeah.

[12:05] She can't ever see.

[12:08] If you have a comment, please feel free to that.

[12:13] All right.

[12:14] As we go through, I just have some more things to add.

[12:21] Does it maybe mind if your sister starts?

[12:23] Yeah.

[12:24] I have nothing on page 1.

[12:29] On page 2 for the finding.

[12:32] We talked about wetlands, and I just thought we could add a line at the end of the

[12:37] as the site is flat.

[12:39] Number one.

[12:39] Yes, number one.

[12:40] This whole thing with steep slopes and hilltops,

[12:43] like, they're not applicable.

[12:53] And then on four talks about to minimize

[12:57] tree vegetation and soil removal.

[12:59] And the comment here's about soil.

[13:01] We never talked about the trees that are there.

[13:04] I think the trees are mostly in fact.

[13:05] There's a couple.

[13:07] I'm gonna say scrappy kind of trees around the house

[13:10] that look to me like that we completely in the way.

[13:12] They can't get the house out without taking them.

[13:15] Yeah, so, but so I guess I would add minimizes the removal, I don't think you're removing any soil at all, right?

[13:28] I mean,

[13:36] oh yes, please, so they're recording for you.

[13:38] Thank you.

[13:38] So the only other additional excavation is really the two single-cocker edges, and then probably some prep on the driveway, but nothing that I don't even think will take anything out of there, or there will be any storage of soil.

[13:52] we have a small area or a soil storage, but it's pretty minimal.

[13:57] Yes, so then I would just, we could just add minimizes the removal of soil and trees.

[14:03] So we just add that ends that we've addressed it.

[14:06] Do I think I'm meeting with the neighbor to the right?

[14:09] There's a few pine trees and maybe one maple.

[14:14] And we've had limbs come down.

[14:17] There are a few that are not doing very well.

[14:20] So we're going to meet and kind of go over that, and I'm just going to bring it up at the

[14:24] September 14th.

[14:25] But we're not going to do anything inside the 100 points, or everything in the back

[14:27] space, the same except for hand, we're going to do it all basically by hand, every move

[14:32] will send the evasive removal, so that's kind of all we're going to be controlled by them.

[14:38] But I think there are a few trees on the right hand side of the property that are the neighbors

[14:44] worried about them falling on.

[14:45] It's property.

[14:49] Yeah, and then there's obviously a plan to plant some things.

[14:52] Yeah, we're going to do three.

[14:54] I kind of went over the species of street trees as common.

[15:04] So, I kind of went through that with the conservation as well, and in ZBA.

[15:10] Yeah, I'm just going through our criteria to make sure we've.

[15:15] So yeah, so I just put removal of soil and trees.

[15:19] I didn't have anything else on page two.

[15:25] Then on page three, on number 11,

[15:37] typically, when we have a number 11, we have it for up.

[15:40] We usually have a larger project, which has a third-party review.

[15:45] So we know we're within the zoning, that's all that's, it's in front of us.

[15:50] And we know that's been checked by our third party.

[15:53] In this case, we don't have that.

[15:57] That's been outside of our board.

[16:00] So I think it might be better to read the planning board,

[16:06] assumes that the submitted plans are record, blah, blah, blah.

[16:10] At the end, add as reviewed by the building commissioner.

[16:14] This is the one that's going to be issuing the building permit.

[16:18] But

[16:21] yeah, so everything else, all the setbacks, the zoning requirements, none of that is actually in a way, none of that is before our board.

[16:31] But has been dealt with by the zoning board of peels and by the building commissioner.

[16:38] It's kind of, otherwise it kind of says that that's something we reviewed or have our third party reviewer and we didn't.

[16:45] Does that have to be in there with the zoning board has to be in number 11, just building commissioners?

[16:52] He's the one that issues the building permit and he would have to do that, looking at the zoning board of appeals decision.

[17:02] He's going to follow up with the CBSS, but he won't issue the permit unless the drawings show that that was fulfilled.

[17:08] And

[17:12] also at the poricite plant.

[17:17] What's that?

[17:17] For actual site plant, because these poricite plant is still turning in a flat, the drier in the

[17:24] end.

[17:26] It does seem certain extend, but it doesn't seem because you look for one.

[17:32] Okay, you always get a site plant, so the site plant, I assume this is the current site

[17:37] plant.

[17:39] So like the rendering is just kind of for a visual, but for the building department, he's going to want a site plan that shows what you're going to build and how the parking lays out and the storm on a management chamber is all that.

[17:54] But this does not currently match what you're proposing, right?

[17:58] The site plan that I have does.

[17:59] This one.

[18:04] You may have already made it.

[18:05] The drivers don't look exactly the same

[18:12] until I'm not reading this correctly.

[18:15] My drawing might be slightly different, but the site plan that I studied.

[18:18] I know the water color.

[18:21] My site plan does show the two purpose.

[18:25] I don't know if you have an old home, but it does show the connection of the two drivers.

[18:29] It might be a photo so different scale-wise, but it's pretty close.

[18:33] So it's pretty much the final that was kind of a prove by ZBA and that I'm bringing forward

[18:41] a conservation because the changes we made we had to make some impervious adjustments for

[18:47] the turnaround.

[18:48] We had the turnaround of the back as gravel because it's inside the 100 foot buffer, but we made

[18:53] the modifications of impervious that we had to bring the front.

[18:57] So we're pretty much going to follow that side.

[19:00] I think it's just that like the the color range shading is not the right. Yeah, that kind of shows you right at the property line

[19:06] Well, this one is more generous. Yeah, it's pulled away from the property line.

[19:11] It's going to be within a photo sort of that.

[19:14] I widened that color rendering out a little bit.

[19:18] So it's slightly, it's slightly different, but I did as close as I could.

[19:34] So then, since all really for that,

[19:40] oh, one thing about the criteria, didn't we have something

[19:45] for middle sex bank, which also came to us, I think, because of the parking, and didn't

[19:54] we have something in there about the design review process that we had looked at the criteria.

[20:01] But wasn't there something we added in there?

[20:05] Does it ring the bell, then, anybody?

[20:08] Because typically, this would go design, design,

[20:10] plan, or, you know, so it's a nice thing to look for.

[20:13] It's six parking spaces.

[20:18] So that's why it's, and that's why it's in front of us.

[20:22] So I thought, it was something very recent.

[20:26] I started thinking it was middle sex,

[20:32] that all

[20:34] Um, design plan review.

[21:00] I know you like all the criteria in that decision.

[21:03] What's that?

[21:03] You listed out all the criteria in that decision.

[21:07] There was it like a...

[21:13] That was in a special plan.

[21:17] Then it all sucks because that was a site plan.

[21:19] What?

[21:19] That was a site plan.

[21:20] A site plan?

[21:23] I thought there was something at the end of the criteria about

[21:26] We're something in there about design reveal.

[21:31] Because we went through those.

[21:34] That's right.

[21:36] What else it would have been that we did recently.

[21:39] We would have been something really recent.

[21:46] This one on the 12 comprehensive plan.

[21:55] We really haven't compared this to comprehensive plan.

[21:59] So should we change that wording a little bit.

[22:05] I'm not sure saying it is consistent with until there is some angle that I'm missing.

[22:13] Why would we say it is consistent with the comprehensive flow

[22:18] until I'm missing something?

[22:19] No, sure we haven't looked at it, I mean I can ask Anna if she is on mine, it seemed, I know a lot.

[22:26] I don't think that any improvement of this kind would be against the comprehensive.

[22:33] There's nothing about this that would be opposed your comprehensive plan and that is a criteria here. So if you want to make a standard that if you haven't looked at it, but I wouldn't want to put a project like this to comprehensive plan or view that's very intensive.

[22:48] Should we have it a little more broad than, of course, is space specifically saying that is consistent with

[22:56] comprehensive plan then

[23:00] Because when you say that we just make it we could make it slightly more ambiguous like the planning board finds that the project is consistent with the spirit of

[23:08] Ashland's new comprehensive plan

[23:12] Or with the intent of Ashland's new comprehensive. Yeah, which I know talks about just the closing

[23:32] And then I was just wondering, so then we go,

[23:35] 800 general conditions, ABC.

[23:37] I was wondering, do we need D&E?

[23:41] I think those are,

[23:45] those are for flat top, flat roof.

[23:49] Well, D is about, kind of about rooftop equipment,

[23:54] you know, for flat roof buildings, signs.

[23:57] There's no, it's not applicable.

[23:59] It's not applicable.

[24:00] Yeah, so we can talk about on

[24:16] letter G, I was just gonna take out the comma after issued

[24:19] because otherwise it doesn't read properly.

[24:25] And I was just also gonna suggest that there's to take out a, if we can take out a lot of extra

[24:30] blank lines here and there.

[24:32] I'm just asking me about Gs, that after I've issued, G on page 4.

[24:40] I'm under construction procedures page four.

[24:44] Oh, you know, you need my slide.

[24:46] Yeah, you took out two letters.

[24:48] It's under email.

[24:49] Yeah, it's under email.

[24:50] Oh, I'm so sorry.

[24:51] Yeah, we've got two letters.

[24:53] So it's like, how am I after issued?

[24:55] I don't think we need.

[24:55] Thank you.

[24:58] Yeah, and then I was just going to say there's just,

[25:00] there's a lot of extra spaces in that would clear that up.

[25:04] Maybe we'll say the piece of paper.

[25:06] Maybe not, but that's all I have.

[25:22] Anybody else?

[25:25] I'm good with the rest.

[25:30] I think I've got four.

[25:31] I think I've got four.

[25:32] There's the public here.

[25:34] All right.

[25:35] Did I have one more thing to ask if possible?

[25:38] It just hasn't been talking to me about fees for this.

[25:42] And because it's a small project,

[25:44] she said maybe I should ask to see if I can get a waiver of fees.

[25:51] I don't know what fees are we.

[25:54] This is the playing board application case.

[25:57] You can't wait the butter fee or the public hearing notice fee,

[26:00] but you can wait our particular application fee,

[26:02] so the state plan application fee is what you can wait.

[26:07] And what is that amount, too?

[26:15] Again, sir.

[26:16] You may.

[26:17] It's 125, I'm pretty sure, per space.

[26:20] And then a separate $2,500 fee for that, I'm not exactly sure what,

[26:25] but just a separate blank kind of.

[26:27] That's for the special permit and not the building permit, because we can't

[26:30] wave building permit fee.

[26:32] No, it's just a fee to the cleaning board for this application.

[26:36] There was one first base, and then one separate one which hasn't been, they kind of got left

[26:41] to the side.

[26:42] It hasn't been.

[26:44] So let's get it.

[26:46] It's got a $2,000 fee.

[26:50] It was $2,000.

[26:53] Yeah, I think it was $8,000, $1,025,500.

[26:57] I think it was $15, I guess we only paid plus $6,

[27:01] because two were inside, so it was $1,500 plus $2,500.

[27:12] Where's the money go?

[27:14] It goes into a general fund account.

[27:17] It doesn't go directly to the department or anything like that.

[27:22] Well, I get it, I mean, it's like, is it budgeted for something?

[27:25] That goes into the general fund.

[27:27] Yeah, that's the general fund.

[27:28] Yeah, the town's general fund.

[27:29] Yeah, it doesn't go into the department fund.

[27:31] It gets the same way with building permit fees and everything else

[27:34] the town collects, goes into the general fund.

[27:39] So is the 2,500 consistent across no matter how big the project is?

[27:43] I can see the progress base.

[27:44] I can see probably dependent on the number of units that you're putting in.

[27:48] There would be a base fee in the additional fees based on other things, like the number

[27:52] of units, things like that, can you just sort of upload your fees?

[28:02] I don't ever remember that request coming up before, do you?

[28:05] Deepa.

[28:06] So I'm not really familiar with all the fees for work in this case.

[28:16] I'm not sure if that's $2,500, but I'm pretty sure it's a flat fee for any project.

[28:34] I've been in front of boards for a long time,

[28:37] but it was something this modern, I've seen that amount of these.

[28:41] That's based on square footage, so.

[28:43] Oh.

[28:44] $22,000 to $5,000 square fee is $10,000,000 plus $2,000 plus $3,500.

[28:54] greater than 10,000 square feet is 2,025 plus 15 cents per square foot of gross floor area plus $6,000.

[29:05] So, and this is fitting into the smallest category.

[29:09] The smallest is 0 to 2,775. I started with, in range of 2,000 to 5,025,025.

[29:17] This is all on this.

[29:19] So, they're all ready.

[29:21] What is it?

[29:23] So, were you reading the industrial commercial square food?

[29:26] It's feasible.

[29:27] We can have the residential.

[29:28] Oh, I'm sorry.

[29:28] Those are industrial square food.

[29:30] No, those are.

[29:35] They should eat the same piece.

[29:38] No, those are industrial commercial.

[29:39] Sorry.

[29:40] The residential is 25 plus 250 per residential units.

[29:43] I'm sorry.

[29:46] But isn't it the 2500?

[29:48] Isn't that a peer review deposit of?

[29:50] 20?

[29:51] If there is no peer review.

[29:53] Then you don't need that.

[29:54] And doesn't get it?

[29:56] We don't keep it.

[29:56] Even if he did pay it, he would get it back.

[29:58] It's a good kind of put that.

[30:00] The side for some reason, they left that as I don't think it ever is a real cashier sort of way.

[30:05] It's just the end.

[30:06] So it sounds like you're getting that $2,500 back.

[30:11] Okay, so we don't have to wave that one because you're going to get it.

[30:15] So you're basically just looking to wave the,

[30:21] so it's not for parking spot, right?

[30:23] It's $25 plus $250 for residential unit, so there's $4 units would be $1,000, right?

[30:33] It seems to me that, because you're not doing the peer review, you should get in that $2,500 back, and the other one is based on the size of the units, so it's probably compare and consistent across anybody who comes to us, whether it's two units or eight or twelve or whatever.

[30:49] Although I guess they don't fall under residential, they fall under. So up to five, I guess, would be residential.

[30:55] So, yeah, I'm fine with that.

[30:58] You okay with just doing the 1025?

[31:01] Yeah, I was not aware of the 25,

[31:03] but still be applicable for some reason.

[31:06] It sounds like you're getting it back.

[31:09] That's a little peer review.

[31:13] Thank you.

[31:15] Should we close this conversation in the note?

[31:18] What is this?

[31:21] This steps?

[31:21] The motion to close the plane review for 167-169 in position 3.

[31:47] 2nd.

[31:49] double.

[31:51] British condolent.

[31:52] Deeply mingled die.

[31:53] And it's just me.

[31:55] It's got peltura.

[31:56] I'm not the same all night.

[32:02] You know, you need a ocean to

[32:05] prove you.

[32:08] Yeah, unless unless there's any other comments,

[32:11] the board has like the board can still discuss.

[32:15] But like I said,

[32:17] they we have all our discussion done.

[32:18] But someone could still have a comment.

[32:20] The carpet a lot.

[32:22] Just the last few minutes.

[32:22] But I have nothing else to add.

[32:25] I'm good.

[32:26] Anybody want to?

[32:27] Do you want to check with Anna?

[32:29] Anna, do you have any follow-up questions?

[32:38] Maybe she stepped away.

[32:40] No, I'm right here.

[32:41] Oh, okay.

[32:43] Didn't know if you had any other follow-up questions or comments.

[32:52] I moved to approve the site plan review decision with the changes that we discussed.

[33:00] Second.

[33:01] We'll call him up.

[33:02] Keep out when you get dead.

[33:04] Just hand it off.

[33:05] Sorry.

[33:06] Go in.

[33:08] No.

[33:10] Yeah.

[33:10] And it's gonna skip out.

[33:15] All the same.

[33:16] All right.

[33:17] Okay.

[33:18] Thanks very much.

[33:19] It's very confusing.

[33:22] All right.

[33:23] So now I think.

[33:28] Thank you.

[33:32] Thank you.

[33:36] It must have felt like 10, but it was 95.

[33:42] I don't know.

[33:43] I don't know.

[33:43] But I wasn't sure.

[33:47] All right.

[33:48] So moving on to the next topic for the night is the data centers zoning.

[33:59] It has been thank you for the follow-up today.

[34:13] And I know we can, anybody talk about this?

[34:17] So I know we've been talking, and I was one that was kind of pushing more on the moratorium,

[34:21] because I wanted there to be an end date,

[34:23] or at least something to kind of trigger or revisit of this.

[34:26] But based on the advice that was given to us by Tom Council

[34:31] and the fact that I don't like, you know,

[34:33] my thought of my head was maybe they'll become better,

[34:37] but in reality I don't think that's really going to happen.

[34:40] So rather, I think we just kind of switched to

[34:43] move it to the no use plan, that way it's just easier and cleaner.

[34:49] And then if somebody really wants to bring it up five years or ten years down the road, then they can do that.

[34:58] It just won't be a trigger for us to force it.

[35:03] Those are my thoughts.

[35:07] Is this summary about a moratorium or is this the no use that we found there?

[35:12] That would be if you wanted to put a moratorium in place, that's the draft language.

[35:15] Yes, it is.

[35:20] But that's not talked about as a no use.

[35:22] that would just be updating the use table where you'd literally just add that definition

[35:26] of to add that specific definition of data center unless it gives a different one

[35:33] as slightly amended and you would just have it data center in the use table now across all

[35:39] zones.

[35:40] Because there's no line currently.

[35:42] There's just 2,000 say anything about data center.

[35:45] Thank you.

[35:48] Any thoughts?

[35:50] I'm going to see what else got.

[35:52] Yeah, I'm four, one of the paths, but I'm not, I think they would both work.

[36:03] Two years does come around pretty quick. It seems like to me.

[36:08] So it might be best just to have it in our bylaws that it's a no until we decide otherwise.

[36:15] So, Jasmine, did you say that was the path recommended by Lisa?

[36:19] It was, she said, because of the risk of putting, having a moratorium in place gives the intent that gives the impression that the intent is that it's allowed.

[36:30] And right now is zoning bylaws, staying if it's not allowed, and you're zoning bylaws, it's not allowed.

[36:35] But putting in the moratorium gives the impression that it is, does that make any sense?

[36:39] So that would make it the legal pathway if the moratorium expired, and somebody maybe they didn't notice.

[36:46] Anybody could come in and even though it's not in the zoning by-law, they would say, well, it's obviously an allowed user, you wouldn't have put it more at all in on it.

[36:52] Hmm, okay.

[36:54] I just opened up to stream risks with where your timelines.

[36:58] So what would be a half, if we did want to follow the other course, it would still...

[37:05] We would have to hold a public hearing still the same way, so we would post it before a time meeting.

[37:10] Hopefully in October, because the zoning board of appeals actually has something they're going to present to you,

[37:15] based on state law with the zoning changes that have to be

[37:18] made with variances. So we have to update our zoning by-laws on that. They're

[37:23] having a meeting on that September 8th and then they're going to send the

[37:26] letter of recommendation to the planning board to ask you to have a hearing

[37:29] for the...

[37:30] So we'd be helpful if we could hold this on that same day in October. So same thing, we just post it in the public newspaper, hold a public hearing, give the public opportunity to speak, and then we vote on it, and we put it to time meeting, and fall time meeting.

[37:45] Which is November 10th this year, in case anybody who's wondering?

[37:49] It's enough time to go from the east of October to the

[37:55] east.

[37:55] So ZBA has a meeting in September?

[37:58] Yes, for the zoning updates, nothing to do with this.

[38:04] But there are state, the changes to the state legislation that require us to update our zoning.

[38:16] Okay.

[38:16] I don't know, that is an envelope in the meeting.

[38:19] It's just that variance is used to be based on shape-size or typography of a lot.

[38:23] you had to prove you had a hardship based on one of those three criteria and now they're

[38:27] just saying if it would like complicate the project essentially it's not based on

[38:35] shape size or typography anymore it's just if enforcement of the zoning would hinder your

[38:41] project so all the case law that exists now gets thrown out the window and it's not

[38:46] I have a lot more because the law has changed.

[38:51] So they made it when they introduced you.

[38:52] They made it much more.

[38:56] But we have to comply with the states.

[38:59] We have to update our by-laws to.

[39:03] It's just a series of things to expand possibilities for housing.

[39:11] In some places it makes a lot of sense.

[39:12] Like on set, you literally can't replace your front steps without getting a variance.

[39:16] because you live in this at back.

[39:26] So listen, we need to vote tonight.

[39:29] No, no, but we could.

[39:30] If you decide, you can take a straw vote and see, yes, we would like to put it as the use table

[39:36] and then we can post it as a public hearing for October after you've had a chance to review what the

[39:42] zoning board sends you because you won't get it until quite literally the Wednesday before

[39:47] next the day before your next meeting. So you probably would have want more time than that to review it

[39:53] to talk about it. So we'll be talking about unofficially at your second meeting in September

[39:57] and then post the public hearing for the first meeting in October.

[40:03] Okay. That makes sense. Anna,

[40:06] do you have any comments feedback from your side? I mean I'm looking over Jasmine's comments

[40:16] that we got over email. I guess I want to better understand Jasmine's position.

[40:25] So I understand the way that Lisa explained it to me is that, you know,

[40:28] a zoning by-law right now, the way the zoning by-law is, is that if it's not illicit,

[40:32] as it explicitly listed as a use, it's assumed that it's not allowed.

[40:37] By placing the moratorium there instead of just adding it to the use table as a no,

[40:42] the moratorium itself implies that it's an allowed use.

[40:46] So, while in this process, say we voted to put a moratorium in place, if a developer wanted

[40:53] to between now and November, they could apply for a data center, because even though it's

[40:58] not technically explicitly allowed in the use table, the moratorium shows them that we believe

[41:05] it's an intended use where we wouldn't have put a moratorium in place.

[41:08] And if it expires, and somehow no steps are taken further taken, then the town is open to it,

[41:14] and know it's not in the use table in any way and not regulated in any way in your zoning

[41:19] because you the moratorium assumes that it's an allowed use.

[41:25] Does that make sense?

[41:26] Okay.

[41:26] So your recommendation is essentially make it a no.

[41:30] That would be my recommendation.

[41:31] And then that that covers all of the bases.

[41:34] It's a firm that doesn't make it assumed you're adding it as a no.

[41:37] And then you can just you can change that anytime there's no expiration.

[41:41] It doesn't leave you vulnerable in case.

[41:43] Goodness forbids something happens and somehow everybody forgets about it because other things come up

[41:49] I think it just keeps everybody safer

[41:52] So yes, my my comment on this is if that's fleece's advice and Jasmine's recommendation

[41:58] That's the way I'm leaning a

[42:04] lot in her heads. Yes

[42:09] Seems like me seems like everybody is going that way. So I think I already did our sponsor. Yes, yes

[42:18] All right.

[42:27] All right.

[42:27] Yeah.

[42:28] All right.

[42:29] Yeah.

[42:29] These are just, you know, they're nice.

[42:31] Public hearing.

[42:34] Let's see.

[42:35] Planning board task list is on the list of the list.

[42:43] I don't think we really have anything on that topic today.

[42:49] So the organization of the comprehensive planning implementation committee.

[42:54] Did everybody, oh, sorry.

[42:56] Is that about this?

[42:58] Yeah.

[42:59] But do you do everybody get the email from Susan that will did she send it to the planning board or just me I'm not even

[43:06] I don't yeah

[43:08] The organization of the comprehensive implementation committee. Oh

[43:13] I don't know. I talked to you a lot and that might have been what you'll land was having distributed

[43:17] But I actually didn't see the email so

[43:30] So Susan, it said, we won't be meeting together that each board will meet and vote separately, so our vote already counts.

[43:36] They already voted you for the implementation committee.

[43:38] So this like board is just voting separately and then that's that we don't have to have a joint.

[43:44] That's going to be a point of this.

[43:45] To a point at least.

[43:47] And I know I saw that email.

[43:49] Okay.

[43:50] Was that all that one was about?

[43:52] Yeah.

[43:52] Yes.

[43:53] But just check your spam because a lot of our stuff has been going.

[43:56] It was probably a week like a spam.

[44:00] So, on that topic, I talked to Yolanda and she had a list of names of people that were interested in that committee.

[44:14] I think it's said the two representatives from the two boards, and then I think five to seven other members.

[44:26] I think it was in the comprehensive plan document

[44:30] that describing the group.

[44:32] And so there's a list of names of interested people

[44:36] that I can't remember how many are on the list,

[44:39] but it's not too many more than seven, seven to nine.

[44:45] So the idea was,

[44:48] that what we thought we just talked about,

[44:50] okay, how do we, what are the next steps here?

[44:52] So we thought the next step might be to have a meeting for...

[45:00] You'll on it and anyone interested in being represented on that committee. So the people who are volunteering to kind of talk through what the committee is about, how off-out, what the workload might be just to kind of brainstorm a little bit, not really knowing, right, because there's no, there's something laid out for that. And then let those people have an opportunity to say that yes, they're still interested, or no, it doesn't fit my schedule. We also will have to, like, earmark a day to meet.

[45:30] If it only works for Yolanda and I to do it on Wednesday's opposite, select board, then someone who has something on Wednesday, they just can't do it.

[45:41] Then, because we'll need to put it in the calendar.

[45:45] To kind of go through those things and then see who's still interested of the people on this and being on the committee.

[45:53] And that would kind of be the next, once we had the group names, obviously we're bringing it back to the planning board in the select board.

[46:01] For approval, we're looking at,

[46:06] I think we're looking at our next meeting, which would be...

[46:13] The 10th, September 10th.

[46:16] Yeah,

[46:19] maybe September 10th, to maybe have that list that would be the earliest to maybe have that list.

[46:28] names.

[46:32] But she was going to summarize everything so we talked about in a more of a more

[46:36] formal document so we're talking off the cuff a little bit about things we were brainstorm

[46:41] about about how to move forward. So but we assume we buy the end of, say by the end of September

[46:49] that we would have a committee and it would be ready to start work.

[46:55] Can I just get a clarification and that's like, you guys are brainstorming just a two of you or is that on public record?

[47:03] Just a two of us.

[47:05] Okay, and presumably you're going to review the prior, because I'm pretty confident there's a document on this from the comprehensive plan.

[47:13] Yes, obviously you'll learn this and she was on the committee. She's really obviously very familiar with that.

[47:17] And I think that's why I think that's why she said the five to seven people because that was, I think, a part of that comprehensive plan.

[47:23] Right. I'm talking about my own specifics.

[47:28] Yeah, so my only concern with kind of brainstorming. I don't have any issue with you guys kind of brainstorming what she remembers what you're thinking.

[47:36] But to me what is going to happen as far as how the implementation committee is going to work is a comprehensive.

[47:44] That's up to the select board and planning board together to ultimately kind of see certainly you guys can brainstorm.

[47:50] but I think you need to bring that back to both the select board and planning board all together

[47:56] so that when we point the membership, your brainstorming is what you bring to that,

[48:02] that we then all vote for. I don't think it's something that you guys can just kind of decide.

[48:06] I think that absolutely has to be part of the public record and a vote.

[48:10] Yeah, I mean, we're going to have there's going to be more of a written document about this

[48:13] is how, you know, this is how we're going to proceed. Like I said, we were going to write it up.

[48:16] I think Yolanda was going to do that is something more formal,

[48:21] but on the other hand, like the comprehensive plan committee itself,

[48:29] once it started with that group of 29 or whatever it was,

[48:34] it was kind of its own entity.

[48:35] And it made its own plan about what to do,

[48:38] coming back to the planning board and select board,

[48:41] occasionally to give a report,

[48:43] but the planning board and the select board

[48:45] to not dictate what that group should do.

[48:49] But anyway, but anyway, we'll have to see, you know, what's in the comprehensive plan document, obviously, and follow that.

[48:56] And then we'll have something to present to both boards about how we think, you know, that committee would work.

[49:05] So that's not my recollection. I remember when we had the comprehensive plan process,

[49:09] We as a organization, as a planning board, had many thoughts about how it should be organized.

[49:15] I remember numerous documents that I had drafted about how it should be set up.

[49:20] And then I remember discussions and Michael had a counter document that came into being

[49:25] after meeting with the entire membership of both planning board and select board.

[49:30] And ultimately there was a vote on that process, as to how the comprehensive plan would be set up.

[49:35] And so my recollection actually is the exact opposite that it's not something that is sort

[49:40] of voted on last minute as we appoint, it's something that we actively participated in

[49:46] as planning board members, the select board participated in town manager participated.

[49:52] So I'm just a little hesitant.

[49:53] I don't have an issue with Yolanda and Trisha brainstorming a potential setup of how this

[50:00] would work.

[50:00] I for one think it should come back to the planning board for a discussion first, you know,

[50:06] once Trisha and you'll want to put their thoughts on paper, we as a planning board should

[50:10] glance at it, discuss it, make sure we agree with it, and then obviously present that

[50:16] at a mutual meeting with the select board to ultimately vote on it.

[50:20] Well, like I said, we've talked about the conversation we had.

[50:25] Obviously we'll go back to whatever documents.

[50:28] I'm trying to remember too because I was there at the last part of the last couple meetings of the comprehensive plan, and I was discussed, and we'll go back to those documents that were voted on that became a part of the comprehensive plan, and we'll start there.

[50:41] I just didn't have them in front of me when I was brainstorming with Yolanda nor do I have them in front of me today, so obviously we'll follow whatever was actually a part of the comprehensive plan.

[50:55] So, let me go from there.

[50:57] It's just a report today.

[51:10] No.

[51:10] No other topics related to this.

[51:12] Then we go into the design review committee.

[51:15] Oh, that's me as well.

[51:18] So I met today with Glen Travis, who

[51:23] has an architecture firm here in town.

[51:27] He had served on a design review committee, helping

[51:36] the 10 to 60 Main Street Project, it was very informal, the applicant, in that case agreed

[51:46] to, I think, was very excited to have their input, I guess, this kind of informal group.

[51:53] And Glenn is interested in being on this list of design review, community, but it's more

[52:01] But him being on the list to me because he has this experience.

[52:04] So as a part of, and I'll pass this on, he'll

[52:09] give his turn to this afternoon.

[52:10] But he actually created two quite weighty documents.

[52:15] Let's start its outline for him in this other context

[52:20] that he was working in.

[52:22] How do we go about this job of evaluating these projects?

[52:27] right. So, he gave me this.

[52:30] To God, documents and you said, free to share them with everybody as kind of a basis for how

[52:35] might these design review committees kind of hit the ground running? Like, here's our job, here's

[52:41] what we're supposed to do and here's a checklist of how we might start to do that. So that

[52:46] was a really productive discussion in starting that process. But I can make those available.

[52:56] Can you send me an electronic one?

[53:01] Is anybody else expressed interest?

[53:05] Truthfully with the summer and traveling, I haven't talked to other, well, I have talked

[53:11] to one other person that's interested, so but I haven't formalized and I guess we'll

[53:18] need a, I mean, this is a group that only we approve, it doesn't sound so like,

[53:24] board, it's just a cleaning board, so we'll have to figure out how we, um, write that process

[53:30] looks.

[53:30] Yeah, and it's not a, it's not a competition that, it can be, the, the length of, there's

[53:35] no limit to how many people can be on it.

[53:37] In fact, probably the more qualified people, the better, um, so, um, yeah, so people

[53:45] too, if they know people in action, that may, someone that might be good on one of these

[53:49] committees, they should, you know, see if they're interested.

[53:53] So do we have to wait until we have a committee or can we start with the one person that has interest?

[53:59] Well, wait, we have a.

[54:00] It sounds like with things that we've coming in the fall.

[54:04] We really need, you know, we're going to need a more of a group.

[54:09] Right.

[54:09] Oh, say at least three.

[54:10] I would, you know.

[54:13] Yeah.

[54:13] They'll be too much.

[54:16] Yeah.

[54:17] I would be too much.

[54:18] Yeah.

[54:18] I think the guidelines that it has to be in the middle of three.

[54:21] so. Yeah, so I will keep working on Apple, like I said, if people know people, that would be,

[54:28] it doesn't have to be, you know, architects, designers, people in landscape, civil,

[54:34] I thought maybe we should tap our old friends. Yes. The kid must be two years old now.

[54:51] Yes,

[54:51] working on some large highway kind of tight projects and things, some large scale infrastructure

[54:56] projects, so he had an interesting perspective sometime for us. But yes, I was going to give him a

[55:03] nudge. I think it will be easier once you know what project you're looking for a team. They may be

[55:10] a better interest and more people may be a little more responsive. Yeah. Right now it's too broad.

[55:17] So, and I haven't been to haven't really been poking too much, just because I haven't had the opportunity.

[55:25] So, how was the new project roster to help get more people to get interest in me?

[55:32] So, you don't have to put it to design review immediately, so you could begin your site plan and it's already been,

[55:39] or a special permit site plan review and it's undergoing review, but you're still looking for people to join the design review committee.

[55:45] And maybe they see a specific project and they say, yeah, I would really like to join that committee, so you have their name to a list, new, however the process looks probably to some type of interview, see what their qualifications and transfer background are, and then you get a point, at least three years.

[56:01] It's already publicly released, so what's coming, but to give it, just make it, somebody might say,

[56:06] why more interested in that particular part?

[56:08] They're not yet.

[56:09] Anybody could add their name to the list at any time, because they're not a permit granting authority.

[56:13] So there's, they can come on to the design review committee at any time during the process.

[56:20] I mean, they wouldn't, we wouldn't want somebody coming on like halfway through a project,

[56:25] but you know, we could have started site plan review and not a sort of design plan,

[56:29] design review yet, if that makes sense.

[56:32] My explain that curve.

[56:34] Yeah, because you might sort of project first thinking about

[56:37] conservation and about, you know, a lot of different things, the sustainability and

[56:42] many things before you actually get into the design.

[56:47] All right, but.

[56:49] Yeah, I'm just not going to pause the candidate and I wasn't sure what project

[56:51] my expertise would be needed.

[56:53] If I knew what projects were coming, I could say, oh, I'm just, I can

[56:57] And once we have a committee, we could just send like, you know, as soon as we have a project,

[57:02] we know we have a public hearing coming for us, as a project sent in, we can say, sent to the

[57:06] design review committee and say this will need design review, you know, let us know if you're

[57:11] interested in sitting in on this project.

[57:16] I think. And if we don't get three people, then we just

[57:19] kind of falls to us. Yeah, unfortunately it does.

[57:26] Not to say you can't still get Glenn's opinion,

[57:28] somebody wouldn't be, he can't be a committee of one.

[57:31] And can members of this, of course.

[57:33] Award be on the committee?

[57:34] I sure can.

[57:37] Well, that's the thing that that's been kind of part of the question.

[57:43] Only if they wish you, only if it really serves their true self-serving interests.

[57:51] Well, it's been part of the question kind of the whole time, because sometimes like now

[57:55] And in the past few years, I would say, the planning board itself has been very design-heavy.

[58:04] Right? There's, you know, before Angel, there was Marcelo, right, so that three of the six

[58:10] people were architects and designers, right, on our own board. So, so, but, but it could change when

[58:20] join, it was just me. So that's the kind of condition I think that we really especially need that

[58:29] design review committee.

[58:35] But I will, yes, I will start to keep pastoring. I think people are

[58:40] also a little slow. It's summer. Yeah. You know, and everything is just slower.

[58:44] So I definitely get that. Thank you for asking. We appreciate it. Sure. For asking people.

[58:53] Moving on, getting to reports here.

[58:57] So the community preservation committee,

[58:59] I'm not sure we'll have much going on since.

[59:01] Yes, I'm going to the next month.

[59:05] Then we get to the Metro West Regional Deep-Up.

[59:08] It's the same.

[59:09] Same situation, OK.

[59:11] And that's just a placeholder for one where rolling.

[59:15] The third one is comprehensive planning

[59:17] documentation committee, which we already talked about.

[59:19] We've been a little bit of that, so I guess we can move on.

[59:25] coming down the list or administrative matters, planning updates, ongoing and new projects.

[59:30] So you all have a copy of, well, Trisha, I didn't give it to you because I printed it for you,

[59:34] and I printed it for you, so I didn't give it to you either, but you all have subdivision rules and regulations in front of you.

[59:40] Because we do have a subdivision that's going to be coming before us, so just read those.

[59:45] If you have any questions about anything, please reach out ahead of time.

[59:50] but just familiarize yourself with it before the project.

[59:53] We expect it to probably be the second meeting of September

[59:57] for meeting in October.

[1:00:00] This,

[1:00:03] uh, trunk of the terminology of preliminary or we are recommending they submit a preliminary first. And I believe that is at their absolute intention, because they also would like to get, all there is dotted in T's cross. They seem very,

[1:00:18] be able to work with, they've always spoken with the fire department a few times, really

[1:00:23] integrated their comments, talk to conservation already, they haven't filed yet, but

[1:00:28] they've been very proactive so I think they'll be good to work with.

[1:00:34] Thank you for making this easy.

[1:00:36] Good bed time, babe.

[1:00:37] I like to print it in right notes and put stickers on it at my left hand.

[1:00:45] Is there something in here that would stand out specifically for this project that might be coming?

[1:00:53] Just so that as I'm reading.

[1:00:55] You should use your familiar eyes yourself to probably all of it, even though it's kind of lengthy,

[1:01:00] because it is quite a process, all of it.

[1:01:03] So there is a lot that goes into a subdivision, and they are pretty lengthy reviews.

[1:01:06] So there's not no question.

[1:01:09] No question of this.

[1:01:17] Yeah, that's in your green folder and I have a copy of you as well that I can send it to you

[1:01:24] Did you as well?

[1:01:27] Okay

[1:01:28] Just the link to the subdivision walls and rigs

[1:01:36] I want to move on

[1:01:43] to the 41s

[1:01:46] I have no updates on that the 55 West Union was continued

[1:01:51] into a September 8th and we do anticipate hopefully having a discussion on that evening

[1:01:57] so if anybody's interested, I don't need to sit on the 8th.

[1:02:02] September 8th.

[1:02:10] Let's do the minutes review for August 13th.

[1:02:42] I did not have any changes on that.

[1:02:45] I had no changes to either.

[1:02:47] I didn't find anything to.

[1:02:54] There's only one set of meeting minutes, right?

[1:02:56] It's just one.

[1:02:57] Just one.

[1:02:58] Just one.

[1:02:58] Okay,

[1:03:05] I'm good the way it is

[1:03:14] about to this and anybody want to make a motion to approve the meeting minutes for August 13

[1:03:20] I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes from August 13 as is

[1:03:27] Second

[1:03:28] We'll call boom

[1:03:30] Trisha can die

[1:03:31] You're going to die

[1:03:32] Thank you, and a test minutes get out

[1:03:35] Got built here

[1:03:36] Pull them up to see you know why

[1:03:37] All right, so I think that is

[1:03:42] next meeting is September 10th

[1:03:47] everybody be here.

[1:03:54] I'll likely be remote but

[1:03:56] yes. Okay. Okay. I'll be

[1:04:12] here. Very good. All right so we can add

[1:04:16] on the meeting. Motion to close meeting.

[1:04:23] Second up. We'll call a boat.

[1:04:25] Oh, that's good.

[1:04:35] Yeah.

[1:04:36] Jasmine, is there anything I need to sign?

[1:04:38] Because I'm not there.

[1:04:39] Whenever you're ready, we have the decision we can...

Planning Board Meeting August 27

Transcript