[6:02] Is termship of Board of Branch Board of Adjustment meeting? We'll call the session to order. It is 734 adequate

[6:15] notice of this meeting has been provided by the annual notice forward to the carrier news and star ledger and posted on the bulletin board of the municipal building and filed with the Township Clerk as required by law. All the proceedings in this meeting are being recorded by an electronic recording device pursuant to the provisions of the New Jersey municipal land use law, all persons speaking,

[6:35] will speak one at a time and give his or her name and address the clerk of the board

[6:39] will remind anyone not being properly recorded to please speak more clearly or closer

[6:43] to the microphone. The attorneys request that identify themselves and whom they represent

[6:46] at the start of each case and get up any business with the board in front of a microphone.

[6:52] We ask that there's quiet in the room and everyone is asked to be as quiet as possible when

[6:55] entering your leaving. No new cases will be heard after 930 and no new testimony will be heard

[6:59] after 10pm. Please join me in the salute to the flag.

[7:21] Can we ID for the recorder, please?

[7:28] Our quade.

[7:29] Thank you, Cook.

[7:30] Rich Albinese.

[7:31] Paschewalch.

[7:32] Larry Fox.

[7:33] Sean Sullivan.

[7:35] Michael Katita.

[7:37] Sean Anderson.

[7:41] We have application to be heard this evening.

[7:45] This case number 2026-006 AUVP of S.P. Commerce Park Investors,

[7:54] you ready to begin?

[7:56] Yes, sorry about that.

[8:13] Any hear me, okay?

[8:14] Yep.

[8:15] Okay.

[8:16] Good evening, Mr. Chairman.

[8:17] Members of the Board Board Professionals.

[8:19] Members of the public.

[8:20] My name is Michael Silver.

[8:21] I'm an attorney at the Law for a Murphy Schiller and Wilson L.P.

[8:24] And I'm here this evening on behalf of the applicant, Commerce Park Investors 12 LLC.

[8:29] In connection with an application for preliminary and final major site plan approval with D1

[8:35] use variants relief along with associated bulk variants relief and design waivers.

[8:40] This application concerns the property located at 22 Reddington Road, known as Block 9.02,

[8:46] Lock 28, situated in the township's I1 industrial zone district.

[8:52] The property consists of approximately 9.95 acres and is improved with an existing approximately

[9:00] 83,000 square foot building, single story, formerly used for industrial purposes.

[9:07] Together with a secondary building, approximately 1861 square feet, along with various parking

[9:12] areas, a man made fire pond and associated site improvements.

[9:16] property has frontage along Reddington Road to the southeast and mice are having you to the

[9:21] southwest.

[9:24] I think the board should be apprised of that the applicant over the past couple of years has

[9:30] already undertaken substantial capital investment towards the site, including parking lot improvements

[9:37] facade enhancements and landscaping.

[9:39] So this is all part of the process and is years in the making.

[9:46] So the idea here is to take and under utilize industrial property and hopefully

[9:51] transform it into a productive community serving recreational sports facility.

[9:58] So one thing I wanted to note is that

[10:00] When this application was originally filed, the project was structured as approximately 70% recreational uses, and that the applicant was intending to keep approximately 30% of the remaining space, and utilize that space for light industrial and warehouse uses, or or manufacturer manual manual manual manual manual uses, the applicant is no longer going to proceed on that basis, so as of tonight, the applicant is going to proceed on the basis that the property will be used.

[10:29] 100% for indoor recreational sports uses, so in other words, the applicant's going to forego

[10:36] the industrial component with the belief that you'll hear in our test one of this evening

[10:41] that the site functions better as one use. And I think that's a significant move even before

[10:49] we get into our testimony this evening. The elimination of the industrial component actually eliminates

[10:54] an entire D1 use variance, that would have otherwise have been required.

[10:59] So again, this voluntary restructuring of the project is intended to not only improve

[11:06] the project in reality, but also on paper and with respect to the relief that we're

[11:10] seeking before the board.

[11:12] We are though seeking a D1 use variance because recreational uses, recreational sports uses

[11:19] are not permitted in the I1 industrial zone district.

[11:25] For context, you'll hear this evening reference to the 2023 Township Master Plan

[11:30] Reexamination Report, which your other board adopted a number of years back, and you'll

[11:36] hear testimony this evening that explicitly calls attention to the recommendation that

[11:42] industrial properties throughout the township be repurposed for more recreational community-oriented

[11:48] uses, and we believe that we're advancing that the planning board's recommendation by way of the

[11:56] application.

[12:01] So I just want to address briefly the scope of the relief being sought. So I had mentioned

[12:05] that D1 use variants. I believe that's the sole use variants that will be that will be seeking

[12:13] in front of the board tonight. Although I defer to your planner ultimately and to the board,

[12:19] obviously. There's a couple other bulk variances that may be required. One of the bulk

[12:27] variances that was identified in your planner's report was a possible bulk variances for

[12:34] parking standard for recreational uses where your ordinance does not provide an explicit

[12:40] parking calculation. We're providing, as shown on our plans, 124 parking spaces and per the

[12:48] submitted traffic impact analysis that you'll hear testimony on this evening.

[12:54] We have calculated originally that 109 parking spaces were required, so we don't believe

[12:58] we need a variance, but we intend to demonstrate that to the board.

[13:03] There's a couple of variances and design waivers that are identified on the report.

[13:09] I'll just briefly list them so section 4-5.2 of your land development ordinance frontage buffer

[13:18] where a 35 foot frontage buffer is required for non-residential properties. Again, and you'll

[13:24] hear me say this repeatedly before I call my first witness. We're dealing with an existing

[13:28] site. Yes, there's a change of use. There are site improvements. There are a lot of the

[13:33] non-conformities that are on the property exist and we would be happy to work with the board in improving

[13:40] the property, making it better. I think that some of the buffering requirements would be

[13:45] actually more appropriate if the property were to remain industrial, because the use of shifting,

[13:50] perhaps the board might view some of the landscaping requirements, some of the parking lot and

[13:57] requirements less appropriate, but just quickly the other, the other relief that we're seeking

[14:04] again is the parking space location where non-residential parking is required to be in the rear

[14:11] or side yards and parking exists in the front yard.

[14:19] This is a corner lot.

[14:21] So again, existing condition.

[14:23] That's identified as a design wafer.

[14:25] Parking setback.

[14:27] Parking lots must be a minimum of 20 feet

[14:29] from the property line.

[14:32] We don't have our parking spaces, I believe,

[14:34] within 20 feet, but arguably the lot is within 20 feet

[14:38] of myster Avenue.

[14:40] Again, existing non-conformity.

[14:42] parking lot landscaping where parking lots containing more than 100 vehicles require a minimum of 8% of the parking area

[14:49] landscapes with shrubs. Again, we don't comply with that currently. There's a requirement for planting islands, shade trees, street trees,

[15:01] And loading areas.

[15:04] So there's also a comment regarding steep slopes. I'll note that there's a fire pond on the on the property. There are slopes that are being disturbed, but they're all in the end made slopes associated with this fire pond that's been on the property for a number of years.

[15:21] And then we have an existing non-conformity with the Myster Avenue driveway with.

[15:27] So, I have with me this evening, two known committed tenants, meaning they have sign

[15:33] leases.

[15:35] The first is soccer world LLC, he's represented tonight by managing member Ricardo Martinez.

[15:42] Second, I have on-car benches, I'll see doing business as you go sports arena represented

[15:48] tonight by Nikette Desai, so I intend to call both of those tenants or the board can ask questions

[15:54] and I can ask questions of them as to their operations.

[15:57] There's actually an additional tenant that does not have a sign least to my knowledge.

[16:02] He's here in attendance this evening in connection with a cheerleading facility called Evelucian

[16:11] and perhaps we can bring them all up so that we can be efficient and go through operations

[16:16] to give the board the best picture of what each tenant intends to do with the delineated space.

[16:23] Other uses that are that we were considering for the other 32% of the property were tenants

[16:29] haven't been identified for, again, where that was that cheer use, gymnastics, wrestling.

[16:35] So similar uses, the point that I'm trying to stress and highlight for the board is that,

[16:40] in no way are we seeking approval for some sort of like large scale membership gym.

[16:44] We're not looking to do an L.A. fitness or a O.I.M.C.A. use here, that's not certainly not what we're

[16:51] seeking so you're not going to see treadmills and ellipticals and freeweights, freeweights jammed

[16:57] into the property and into each space. So we're trying to look at uses that generate lower traffic

[17:06] demands then, you know, a YMCA type type use here.

[17:12] So, with the Board's permission, I'll be presenting the witnesses.

[17:16] Five witnesses this evening, Mr. Craig Steyer's, our civil engineer, Benjamin Horton,

[17:22] our architect, the tenants,

[17:28] Gary Dean of Dolan and Dean, our traffic expert, and then

[17:32] close out our hearing. I have just an OCLO our professional planner.

[17:39] So Mr. Chairman actually

[17:41] before I do that. Mr. Warner, if I could just confirm that the board has efficient

[17:45] notice to proceed with the application? Yes. The, as I always do for the board, when the

[17:59] applicant, certainly.

[18:02] I did review the notice, found the contents of the sufficient.

[18:06] I still find it to be sufficient in light of the fact that now we know that one of the

[18:12] D1 uses may be proposed to be eliminated, one of the two D1 use pariances proposed to be

[18:19] eliminated by virtue of the representation that the applicant is now pursuing a D1 use

[18:25] variants for a non-permitted into our recreation use for the entirety of the site as I just

[18:32] heard for confirmation purposes, so it's still sufficient notice.

[18:38] By way of content, timely served and published served on August 18th, published on August

[18:44] 18th and 19th, multiple publications, qualified publications, and both of those days being

[18:52] at least 10 days prior to the evening, so the Board does have jurisdiction to

[18:57] hear and decide the application, and with the chair's permission, I can swear in

[19:01] the multitude of witnesses, including our Board professionals, all three of our

[19:06] Board professionals who are here to get that out of the way and make sure we don't

[19:11] miss anybody.

[19:12] It sounds good.

[19:12] I'm going to proceed.

[19:13] So everybody who may be testifying tonight, applicants witnesses and our

[19:19] board professionals will you all please raise your right hand and do all of you

[19:24] swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth

[19:28] the whole truth that nothing but the truth thank you all that it doesn't

[19:38] okay thank you so I'd like to call our first witness mr. Craig styres our

[19:47] dungeon here.

[19:58] That's all right. Very nice water.

[20:00] First, first hearing, I've had the privilege to have water here, so it's a very nice accommodation. Thank you.

[20:07] That was mistake. That's okay.

[20:10] Well, I won't drink it.

[20:12] That's all right.

[20:14] Good, Mr. stars, you want to just credentials so freely for the board?

[20:19] Craig Steyer's President Steyer's Associates 43 West High Street in Summerville.

[20:24] I am a professional engineer in Stain, New Jersey in Pennsylvania.

[20:28] I had my first hearing here before the planning board many years ago and I've had many meetings

[20:36] since then before both of your boards.

[20:42] Yeah.

[20:42] So good.

[20:43] Thank you.

[20:46] Mr. Steyer is that you oversee and or prepare the site plan before the board this evening.

[20:52] Yes I did.

[20:53] And would you be so kind to lock the board through the plan?

[20:57] Sure.

[20:58] You hit most of my comments though, but I'll go through it again.

[21:03] As Mike said, the existing site is known as 22 Reddington Road, or Block 9.02, lot 28 located

[21:11] in the I-I-1 zone.

[21:13] It's located at the northwest corner of the intersection of Reddington Road, and Mice Thur Avenue.

[21:22] And has 9.95 acres of land.

[21:27] The site certainly contains a one story industrial building just under 82,000 square feet.

[21:35] And associated parking.

[21:37] Again, as Mike said, there is a fire pond in the back.

[21:41] Um, what I guess in the Northwest corner used to be like a, uh, material storage area.

[21:49] Um, in 2025, I believe it was early 2025, the applicant purchased a property from Taylor

[21:58] Forge.

[21:59] Um, Taylor Forge had it for many years prior to that, and over time, you know, the building

[22:06] became dilapidated prior to the purchase by the applicant.

[22:11] Since that time, he's invested, as Mike said,

[22:14] substantial amount of money renovating the existing building.

[22:19] New Windows, the facade has been painted.

[22:23] The parking lot has been repaid, restrived.

[22:29] And I think the original intent was to obviously

[22:33] find industrial user, but with the changes in the township and the township code regarding industrial

[22:40] buildings, they kind of pivoted and started looking at the recreational uses that could potentially

[22:49] be in there. Ultimately, it would be something similar to the Bridgeworge complex, which is

[22:55] on the road, which was also a former industrial use

[23:00] brewery that was converted to the use that's there now,

[23:04] and has been quite successful since it's been put in there.

[23:13] Again, the proposal is to renovate the space

[23:16] into, at this point, two new tenants for recreational use.

[23:24] And as Mike said, converting originally,

[23:26] Maybe when we submitted this, the southern components of the building were going to remain

[23:30] industrial.

[23:32] That is now off the table and they will be trying to find recreational tenements as well.

[23:41] Again, there is a fire pond in the back and part of the renovations that the applicant

[23:45] made was to tie the existing site into public water off of Mr. Avenue and essentially eliminate

[23:53] the need for that fire pond.

[23:55] Now, the fire pond has been eliminated, it comes, becomes somewhat of a liability.

[24:02] So, there are also looking to do is the fill in the fire pond.

[24:08] Through the, after the submission of the application, I talked to a dog and,

[24:14] between, some of the renovation, and obviously mostly related to the fire pond,

[24:19] There is grading that would need to be obviously done to fill in upon, which causes to be a

[24:26] gore the threshold of a major development.

[24:30] So then that comes, pulls in the play store and water management, and various other items

[24:36] because it's a major development.

[24:41] At the same time, I think now it kind of becomes, in my mind, two applications.

[24:46] One is to try and get the approval for the recreational use and the two tenants that are here before you tonight.

[24:55] And secondarily is the dealing with the rest of the site itself.

[25:00] And completing the renovations of the property to bring it to what I consider a much better condition than getting ready to that pond.

[25:11] Hopefully that should the application be approved, we can get those tenants in there that can move forward accordingly.

[25:18] And then, essentially, I've made the commitment to Doug to work with him and his staff to get the necessary approvals,

[25:27] rules, because now you're pulling in soil, soil conservation district, as well as their approval,

[25:34] which is appropriate, because some of the things, like I said, most of the things to the

[25:40] point, to date was renovating the building and paving the existing parking lot and cleaning

[25:46] things up.

[25:47] But now we're getting into some grading and miscellaneous other things, so getting all those

[25:52] necessary approvals, I think is appropriate as Doug has brought up.

[26:04] As far as the recreational uses, most of the improvements have done already, like I said,

[26:10] the parking lot has been paved and striped, so along the front edge of Ridington Road,

[26:17] as well as on the, I guess, would be the north side of the building, there is a, what I

[26:23] are existing striping now. We would have to add some, I think it's 13 spots in the rear

[26:32] of the building to get to that 120 that are physically striped, 124 if you take into account

[26:38] the EV spots. And then also we did add some additional parking on either side of the entrances

[26:44] for the units themselves. So I put one 24 with the credits for the EV.

[26:53] And we have also proposed a front-inch buffering, when they first started or purchased the building,

[27:02] the front, front-inch along, runnington road was overgrown and what they've done is kind

[27:09] of clean out that undergrowth, they've raised the canopy, the trees.

[27:13] But the trees aren't good condition, they're good size.

[27:17] And if you look up and down ranked in road, it probably has the most vegetation along its own

[27:23] frontage than a lot of these other industrial buildings.

[27:29] One of the comments from the Environmental Commission was to kind of make this the gateway

[27:32] coming into Branchberg coming into running to in road.

[27:37] So I think with the combination of the higher canopy tree line and then what we're proposing

[27:43] with the buffering along the parking lot, it's not 35 feet, which is what is required in the industrial zone.

[27:54] But it is, I believe, wide enough and high enough that would block the parking and the vehicle is parked along the Reddington Road.

[28:03] And the combination of the lower vegetation with the tree lines that are there, I think it would be very nice.

[28:10] And I think would accomplish that kind of that gateway appearance coming, coming down, running

[28:17] to road.

[28:18] There are some additional plantings and I should the application be approved.

[28:23] I would, again, be more than happy to work with Kendra to supplement the landscaping.

[28:31] But as far as the rest of the crux of the application, I think that's everything I've got

[28:38] to this point.

[28:38] Okay, I'm just going to ask a couple questions from the report from the various reports we received.

[28:46] I'm actually, if it's okay, I'm going to start with the fire of the UMMO.

[28:50] Okay, if I can.

[28:53] So are you comfortable that the township's largest firefighting apparatus and equipment can safely circulate the site?

[29:03] And if it's needed, we can provide a truck turning template or radius that effect is demonstrated.

[29:11] Yes, and then I think additionally was the fire hydrant.

[29:15] So the FDC is currently in the back of the building.

[29:21] They, again, they just brought the new water line in and it goes pretty much right past that FDC.

[29:26] So to put a hydrant in would be in a perfect location of where they're looking to have it installed.

[29:32] and then we're also paving that drive way in the back which is really mostly a

[29:39] emergency access around the building so that would kind of play into accomplishing

[29:44] the requirements as well.

[29:48] So then was there any comment in that report that you felt that we couldn't

[29:52] comply with?

[29:53] Okay, good, just

[29:58] for the record, that's the August.

[30:00] 21, 20, 26 fire marshals, memorandum correct? Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

[30:09] All right, Mr. Olivo.

[30:12] Okay, let's turn to Mr. Balls report.

[30:31] Can you speak about the existing driveway with and perhaps Mr. Dean will testify to this also, but it was noted in Mr. Balls August 20th,

[30:43] in 2006 report we've kind of 16 about the existing 22-foot wide drive aisle.

[30:50] Yes, that's off of Mr. Avenue and I think it's acceptable with the 22-foot wide and

[30:58] I think Gary will testify to that as well.

[31:02] Yeah, it's just in that one location though, it then becomes larger than the one you get in

[31:10] the loading area, it widens out and then the driveway that we're putting in is actually 24 foot

[31:16] wide around the back. So you're comfortable with the existing condition? Yes. Okay.

[31:22] Can I just interject? What's the dimension between the backs of the stalls? The drive aisle between

[31:29] I believe we had it. It was 25 feet.

[31:39] It's supposed to be 26.

[31:45] If you can both speak it in the mic, please.

[31:58] It's 25 feet. It's on the horizontal control plan.

[32:00] I believe that is 24, but it's not mentioned on the plan.

[32:08] It looks at different.

[32:11] The one side looks far greater than.

[32:15] Which if that's 25 feet that has to be far less than 25 feet.

[32:22] I'd have to check that.

[32:28] And will children be dropped off on that location?

[32:34] Yeah, in the location.

[32:38] I can't answer that because right now there's no tenant in that.

[32:41] Which you're having recreational space in those units.

[32:44] Yes.

[32:45] Of which, kids will be dropped off.

[32:49] Yeah, I think this is, because we spoke about this prior to our hearing, so I think Mr.

[32:54] Dean has prepared to address drop off locations, pedestrian safety traversing through

[33:02] the parking lot.

[33:03] I did note that those comments were in both of your emails.

[33:12] Does that, in reference to the rear of the property?

[33:15] If you're looking from Readington Road to the left there's two units to which was

[33:21] formerly opposed as industrial right now proposing it as a recreational space which

[33:27] will have you know kids going in that of course that's a narrow drive-by of

[33:32] requiring a design waiver so

[33:40] so just looking at sheet three of the nine the

[33:43] horizontal plan if that's what we're referring to yeah we just for the benefit of

[33:48] towards show us where what specific drive aisle we're talking about?

[34:04] So if you're looking, this is where the proposed industrial space is.

[34:09] We drive aisle in between some of those units in front.

[34:13] Where are the parking stalls?

[34:18] That's that's that.

[34:35] Yeah, it's shown as 20 right now.

[34:37] So it's 20 feet.

[34:42] And what are the stalls?

[34:44] 18.

[34:46] Which complains.

[34:56] But I mean, I understand that it is a design way for both those space.

[35:00] The spaces are there now and have been in the past.

[35:05] What's the width of this clause?

[35:58] We

[36:23] could probably pick up the additional four feet, going in because there's room in the front

[36:28] and as well, between the front payment, edge payment and the building.

[36:36] So we could probably pick up the additional four feet.

[36:49] What is the current dimension of the parking as it exists today

[36:54] off the front of the building?

[36:57] From the face of the building to the front.

[37:10] Or actually more importantly, what's the dimension of the staircase that you have to meet up with?

[37:18] It's not a case about to the first step, it's about five feet.

[37:25] So you can fit four feet and then step onto the step.

[37:28] Yeah, that we can come forward towards running the road.

[37:33] We can remove the space to confirm the stairs.

[37:36] Yeah, we could remove the spaces in front of the stairs.

[37:38] And how is the ADX accessibility supposed to happen?

[37:41] That still has to be worked out.

[37:51] I mean, at this point, like we said,

[37:53] we have since the plans were submitted,

[37:55] it was industrial and recreational.

[37:57] you know, we have designed the plans to the two tenants that are to the north,

[38:05] and there's

[38:06] nothing committed to the southern side, so there are modifications that need to be made

[38:11] to that portion of the building, whether it's accessibility and dealing with the parking

[38:17] and drop-off.

[38:20] I think it, again, I think it's the commitment to make sure that we get these two tenants

[38:24] in and if we will continue to work with Doug to get the appropriate designs for the site.

[38:36] But I think at the same time we have to have a commitment of the tenant space in ANB as well to be able to deal with it appropriately.

[38:46] It's a question Mr. Chairman.

[38:47] The application, the parking and traffic which you haven't talked about traffic, but the parking requirement was based on the mixed usage.

[38:56] So now the parking requirement changes because it's going to be a hundred percent recreational that you have to recalculate that.

[39:05] We're prepared to do that this evening and it's a good question.

[39:11] What you're going to hear Mr. Dean testify to is that we were able to take six.

[39:17] We have no users for 68% of the site and we're anticipating users of similar elk.

[39:25] We're again not proposing an L.A. fitness for not proposing a Lyon say that would be higher traffic generators.

[39:32] So assuming that it's the same type of user, we can estimate.

[39:37] Traffic deferred because we haven't heard from the track.

[39:39] I'll talk about specifically parking.

[39:43] This is designed based on light industrial, partial recreational, and future.

[39:50] But the industrial calculation is different.

[39:53] It is so you you need to rework that number. I'm saying we we it's not in your

[40:00] PIA, that's in front of you this evening?

[40:02] What, like, yeah, what are we looking at? We don't have a plan.

[40:08] So, the ordinance doesn't have a parking. The ordinance does not afford us with the ability.

[40:14] We can't look at the ordinance and say, your ordinance requires X number of spaces for X number square feet of recreational space.

[40:19] We don't, we don't have that ability.

[40:23] What we did was, and I don't want to speak for our traffic engineer, but we used I-I-T-E established measures to estimate the parking requirements on a per-participant basis for the tenants that are known.

[40:37] But we would be in this, and what I imagine that we'll be presented this evening is that if we didn't have known tenants, if we had a shell, rec use, we would still have the same issues trying to

[40:51] estimate traffic. So what I can do is I can, I can, I can make caps. I can, we, you know,

[40:57] we can establish what can't go there. So there's not a blanket approval for all recreational

[41:02] uses. So if you have, for by way of example, somebody's using a soccer facility, a soccer

[41:09] field, you know beforehand how many people can possibly be using the soccer field at one time.

[41:16] So depending upon the type of recreational activity that's going on there, you're able

[41:20] to me, the number of park spaces required, it's when you have broad authority to put any type

[41:26] of record user and that's where you can run into problems, by way of example, an athletic,

[41:33] you know, a membership gym where somebody is going there and you have ellipticals lined

[41:37] up and treadmills lined up, that those are the high traffic generators.

[41:42] There we are.

[41:43] And I'll stop asking the same question.

[41:45] It's a good question.

[41:46] I hope we can address this.

[41:47] the calculation away from the industrial usage, and at least use the same baseline that you propose

[41:55] here for the partial recreation, but I'll leave it at that.

[41:58] Understood.

[42:06] All right.

[42:06] So I just want to make sure where we landed on the drive aisle.

[42:12] So we're going to try to, we believe we can make it a 24 foot drive aisle.

[42:18] Okay.

[42:19] And that will that result in the reduction of the parking space?

[42:24] It depends on how we configure.

[42:26] I mean, we can either pull it towards the building,

[42:29] or we can pull the edge that's closest to running the road forward,

[42:36] which would create a more significant

[42:40] deviation with parking associated with it.

[42:43] What's the current step back?

[42:45] I just want to know if we're increasing this.

[42:49] Well, we would be clear the front-ish buffer but we would be further parked into the front yard.

[42:57] So I don't know if there's a preference.

[43:00] But the point is we can make it work.

[43:04] Yes.

[43:04] All right.

[43:05] Can you just speak briefly about lighting?

[43:09] The lighting we took at this point was the existing.

[43:12] We did just go out there and essentially do a light study.

[43:15] We put that information on the plans, some of the lights were off, so we would have to update that study anyway.

[43:25] But again, any of the changes and modifications that we need to do to make it comply, we will do.

[43:32] Okay.

[43:34] Are you okay with the frontage buffer being eaten into?

[43:37] I thought the plans had 35 feet of the current frontage.

[43:42] I'd like to stay on my lane, but...

[43:45] I would say the, I think,

[43:51] whatever comes of the conversation with landscaping in the

[43:53] frontage buffer would have to be considered if you do move it in that direction, competing

[43:58] for space along the building of foundation planings as well as ADA ramps that I would anticipate

[44:03] being installed in the frontage, so there's a lot of balancing that has to take place with

[44:09] site plan. I'd like to also mention fire egress access in the rear of the building. Are you going to get into that?

[44:17] Or is that the architect?

[44:19] I would leave that to the architect.

[44:36] I think most of the planning comments are things that were committed to working through.

[44:44] Yes.

[44:45] So, there wasn't was there any comment in the August 24th,

[44:48] 2021's 26th report that you felt that we couldn't comply with or that we couldn't.

[44:53] Was there something that was an anything problematic in that report?

[44:56] It does report?

[44:57] No.

[44:58] In this.

[45:00] We rise report,

[45:04] August 24th, 2026, the planters report.

[45:10] Andrew's report,

[45:13] yep.

[45:15] Would we finish the engineering report?

[45:19] As far as the engineering, I would, like I said, I made a commitment with Doug to work this out,

[45:25] and as far as the stormwater management and things like that, I would be more than happy to work with

[45:30] hit himself and his staff. He's asked for, you know, just additional information with the basin

[45:36] that we are putting back there. Some of soil testing and updating the drainage report.

[45:43] And I have no problem with working with Doug to resolve that matter.

[45:50] Yeah. I would agree that we could work out a lot of the stormwater management

[45:53] facilities offline. I don't foresee any wrinkles in that. I would like to hear a little bit more

[46:00] further about this phase to prove with occupancy of certain units and not as it relates to

[46:07] life safety issues and 80 accessibility and parking in that so that's the traffic engineer

[46:14] is going to speak to those components or the traffic is going to speak to the parking

[46:20] calculations that were in his report submitted to the board as well as the impact to changing

[46:25] the use, and we'll address Mr. Fox's questions regarding how the calculations right now

[46:33] are based upon a blended parking count, and I would imagine he's going to testify that

[46:39] he feels that the parking is sufficient, even with changing from industrial to rec uses.

[46:47] But I think I'm the one that kind of brought up that phased approval.

[46:50] So, I would 100% I know are dogs gone with this, I agree, 100% that anything related to obviously

[46:58] life safety, whether it's the egress doors, whether it's the, even the lighting, the appropriate

[47:03] ADA access, appropriate parking and things like that.

[47:07] Those things would need to be in place even for a TCL.

[47:12] But I think the basin and the back and dealing with the grading in the back is something

[47:17] totally unrelated to the occupants that want to get in here and it's again the further

[47:24] upkeep and upgrade of the property so that's why I was trying to kind of break out the removal

[47:32] of the firepond and the stormwater management is kind of an ancillary to getting the tenants in

[47:38] there and making obviously everything as far as building code and life safety has got to be done

[47:44] as part of the TCL or CL.

[47:49] If I could just add that when I mean life safety,

[47:51] it's not just egressed doors,

[47:53] it's also drives around the perimeter of the rear of the building

[47:56] so that would have to account for emergency vehicle access.

[48:00] Yes, 100%.

[48:02] And I would have to defer the timing of the fire hydrant

[48:07] as it relates to the timing of the NETCO.

[48:12] Yeah, I think, I think, you know,

[48:15] I think that just by way of background, we attempted to try to avoid a major development from

[48:20] stormwater management standpoint.

[48:23] So when we were at the drawing board, we were trying to stay within all of the parameters

[48:28] to make sure it was still true to as a monitor development.

[48:32] Once after we had submitted the application, it was classified as a major.

[48:36] I think that gives us much more flexibility as to how we can better utilize the site

[48:44] to accommodate these uses.

[48:46] And I think, you know, this phase approach could certainly allow for that

[48:53] because we'd be able to hopefully get the tenants in provided that we're meeting

[48:57] the conditions of approval.

[48:59] The other space wouldn't be utilized until we were, we come back with a design

[49:06] that can accommodate building A and B for this perspective tenant I had reference.

[49:13] but main focus is on the two tenants that are here this evening.

[49:18] So, we're saying, is it, you'd be the great able to have the kind of condition of approval

[49:24] and include the review of the stormwater management plan to the satisfaction of the township?

[49:28] Of course.

[49:30] Yes.

[49:33] What I'm saying is to the extent that it's necessary we would come back and if Mr. Paul wants

[49:37] to see anything with respect to built units A and B, or the board for that matter, we would

[49:43] happy to do that if a phased approach is preferred.

[49:51] From a planning standpoint, I would say

[49:53] where we wouldn't be seeking the 2D ones because we wouldn't utilize the industrial space.

[50:00] The utilization of units A and B would be pending, either engineering, sign off or board sign off on the design, making sure we're meeting 88 requirements, safety, life safety requirements, et cetera.

[50:16] That's your business.

[50:22] Is that acceptable?

[50:25] Yeah.

[50:25] the phasiest and all approval with phased we can have phasing I guess one question I have maybe

[50:31] more for most for Doug is for engineer should we have a phasing plan I mean we didn't even

[50:40] got to post this sort of you know the the verbiage that we're hearing tonight I mean I have no idea

[50:46] what occupant wants to occupy the space at this point so this is like a very broad theoretical

[50:54] discussed.

[50:58] And I think on who can go in there, which I don't know if the applicant would like.

[51:04] Well, we will have testimony from the two tenants that are here this evening to occupy the known units.

[51:13] So the board can be comfortable or hopefully will be comfortable with that.

[51:17] testimony and those known and there are absolutely unknowns with it with the

[51:23] other spaces like we do have the principle of evolution which is a cheerleading

[51:28] facility in Bridgewater if we have time I'd be happy to bring him up to to address

[51:34] the board that's another 8,000 square feet taken off the board so you're we're

[51:38] slowly chipping away but even even knowing the tenant that would go into what was

[51:44] formerly classified as industrial space that doesn't necessarily address other parameters or other

[51:50] things that are within the board parameters such as life safety, ADA, you know, how the

[51:57] site works even if you know the tenant we have work to do with units A and B. So can you disclose

[52:05] which are the units A and B or the ones that are going to be occupied? Do we have an exhibit?

[52:13] Maybe while we're doing that, Mr. Chair, I'm wondering out loud in addition to a phasing plan.

[52:22] I would think certainly we would want to retain jurisdiction, but I'm wondering if this is,

[52:29] if the approval would not only be a conditional approval, of course, but based on the phasing,

[52:35] maybe it would be a requirement that the applicant come back with respect to the second phase.

[52:46] But the third.

[52:47] I'll try.

[52:49] There would probably be the first phase would be the two tenants that are here tonight.

[52:54] Phase two would be the stormwater management.

[52:57] Phase three would be the occupancy of A&B.

[53:01] The second phase of occupancy the third phase overall.

[53:05] Yeah, but you come into the second meeting will be the balance of the phases I would hope the balance of

[53:16] What do you mean by that?

[53:18] So how many ever phases you cut this up into the the next hearing that you appear before this board would be the balance of all phases the the stormwater and

[53:28] the rest oh, yes, yes, yes

[53:32] I mean ideally would be to get these approved

[53:37] I would say the balance for A and B if necessary would come back at us separately.

[53:43] I think like I'll just be born we need to if the board is going to look favorably

[53:49] upon this application.

[53:51] We have to be at a point where the tenants can start making improvements the known tenants,

[53:59] which I need to show you on an exhibit the spaces that are,

[54:04] Do you mind showing them where you want to wait for the architect?

[54:07] Not to wait.

[54:09] Our architect will be up very shortly.

[54:10] So you can see which spaces are already identified for which tenant.

[54:14] That'll be coming up very shortly.

[54:16] But that's our main concern is making sure that we can get going.

[54:22] And we still have to go through post-proveal compliance with respect to this phase.

[54:26] But whatever we can do to have the opportunity to submit for post-proveal

[54:34] compliance with respect to phase one, to allow units CDN, right? You could make a proper

[54:43] and point it out to the board. I mean, if you look on sheet three, I'm sorry, yes, three

[54:50] of nine, you can see building C, D, E, F,

[55:00] So here's not enough. I'm sorry. Good.

[55:02] The two sides, the stock of the world's LLC,

[55:09] is C.

[55:10] As an agreement to take unit C, 21,000 and change square feet, and unit F1, 2,500 square feet and change.

[55:19] And then unit D, and unit E, unit E is 21,300 square feet and change, and unit D is 11,234.

[55:29] the 404 square feet is there's already an agreement in place, private agreement for oncore ventures LLC.

[55:39] So those are the two known tenants those are the that's predominantly what the site is made up of.

[55:45] And you'll hear testimonies of that the board can assess their operations shortly.

[55:50] I'll have the architect speaking greater detail about the architectials in front of the board.

[55:57] So

[56:03] the is signed, okay, so I want to just the principle of the applicant, just inform you

[56:11] that unit B, which is one of the industrial spaces, one of the industrial spaces we have

[56:18] assigned at least, so we can speak to the operations of that tonight.

[56:23] The managing member is here this evening, so we can also address the board, the board

[56:28] address the use component to this.

[56:32] So we're not coming back with a phase three for phase two for the devarions we're

[56:38] talking about.

[56:39] I think to simplify things, I think that with respect to the tenants that are here and what

[56:47] we can present to the board that are known with respect to the use, that would be phase one.

[56:52] We have improvements already in place, for what was proposed through the application materials as recreational space, so we can assess, you know, site safety, to that end, what the board doesn't have improvement lives would be improvements to unit A and unit B, as well as the accessories structure unit H.

[57:20] I'm trying to avoid a situation where every single time there's a tenant that the applicant

[57:25] or the tenant has to come before the board.

[57:29] I've run the same thing for the tenant.

[57:31] Trying to figure out how to do that.

[57:32] I'd like to get clarity on what you're going to present tonight because now we've changed

[57:38] from multi phases now that it looks like A and B is actually going to be occupied,

[57:44] so we really can't pull that.

[57:46] variants off the table for tonight, so you've got to present it all.

[57:50] All right, so you're going to hear from three tenants, you'll hear from our architect,

[57:54] very shortly.

[57:55] You're going to hear traffic testimony after the tenant speak, so that the traffic engineer,

[58:00] Mr. Dean, can speak about based upon the operations that he has heard, whether or not

[58:04] the parking on site is adequate, and then you'll hear from our planner.

[58:12] Any other questions for this witness?

[58:17] I have a couple of questions on the planning report before you get off that topic.

[58:24] So Craig, thanks for indicating that you'll comply with my comments.

[58:28] I just had a couple of questions was related to, it relates to, and I'm not sure if you

[58:34] can testify to this or Mr. Dean will, but I had some concerns, and originally it was

[58:40] because it was industrial and recreation together, right?

[58:43] So you had a bunch of kids being dropped off, there's no drop off zone.

[58:47] We have some parking that there's striped, striped sidewalks kind of coming in behind the parking spaces.

[58:54] There are no sidewalks that take folks from parking spaces to front entrances.

[59:00] The front entrances really aren't defined on the site plan.

[59:05] Is all of that going to be, are you going to deal with some of those issues that I brought up?

[59:09] Regardless, that's not no industrial.

[59:12] I still think those are safety issues.

[59:16] I think Gary will probably supplement what I have, but this setup is we did VSC as well down

[59:24] the street, and this setup is very, very similar to what they have, they don't have sidewalks.

[59:30] Nope, they have striping, it's very similar to along the building, if the board would

[59:37] like Bollards, we can add Bollards, but, you know,

[59:40] Bollards beyond the

[59:43] park is it behind?

[59:46] Gary's going to deal with that because I think that's also a common

[59:51] configuration if you were to go to a mall.

[59:54] And a lot of times if you have the ADA space, the ADA space is then

[59:58] straight behind the park.

[1:00:00] I'll leave that to Gary to supplement what I'm saying. I think it's a very common configuration, but again, I'll let him supplement what I have to say.

[1:00:27] Craig, the head of the stalls at front, I'm rangton road. There's a cross hatched area that runs parallel with the head of those stalls.

[1:00:36] What is that?

[1:00:37] It's rip wrap.

[1:00:38] So it's not a walking pattern.

[1:00:40] No, no.

[1:00:41] It's had to come up with some kind of patching, but the water runs off and then it's basically

[1:00:47] just a little rip wrap transistor.

[1:00:54] So essentially, the drop-off would be either they come alongside the building and drop-off,

[1:00:59] or a lot of times, you know, depending on the age, they would come park, welcome into the

[1:01:05] building, and then come back and leave.

[1:01:09] And what would, there's an entrance on the side of the building for unit, E, D, D, N, E, yes?

[1:01:18] I think E, D has access from the front or both of them have access from the side.

[1:01:24] I think these are a common unit.

[1:01:28] So, they're going to drop off in front of that door and they're going to go around the back and cycle out.

[1:01:35] They can, yes.

[1:01:38] I think my comment was really with regards to the lack of information as to how and maybe this

[1:01:46] will come forward with operations, but I had to sit with the site plan because I think

[1:01:51] you're going to need signage.

[1:01:54] You know, so I'm a parent, I'm dropping off and I have to go to soccer world.

[1:01:57] What's the best way to do that once I pull in this parking lot?

[1:02:00] Or I'm going to go to a birthday party or something at this, at the other site, do I, where do I do, where does that occur?

[1:02:08] And I think just not having that information on the plan creates questions and certainly some safety issues.

[1:02:16] I mean we all have had kids and we've all done drop off in these situations and it can get pretty chaotic, if not organized in a fashion that obviously has the safety of the kids and the patrons in mind.

[1:02:34] What about your comment, Kendra, and your letter regarding the setback of the parking spaces?

[1:02:41] Yeah, so from myster, it was a question.

[1:02:44] I didn't scale it, but it looked like some of those parking spaces were within the setback to myster.

[1:02:53] I mean, it is an existing condition.

[1:02:55] They are proposing some landscaping and Mr. Stuyres had indicate the work with us to supplement that.

[1:03:03] So I think probably the design exception for that is reasonable provided we just get some additional

[1:03:10] plantings in that area.

[1:03:12] That's effects 33 feet, so it's not a design X, so it's clear of it anyway.

[1:03:23] Any signage, Craig, monument sign wise?

[1:03:27] I believe they have a pile on sign there already that they're going to modify.

[1:03:31] Okay, and that will be included in a revised plan.

[1:03:34] We can put that on there, yes.

[1:03:37] You know, if that sign is currently conforming, it is.

[1:03:44] It is.

[1:03:46] I was a farer sign there, and it's meets a set of its signs.

[1:03:51] I'm sure it is or is not.

[1:03:53] It is.

[1:03:55] Yeah.

[1:03:55] I think it's good for our architect, because you don't see a book that's speak to a sign in you.

[1:04:04] Yeah.

[1:04:06] get to get to our architect, he could speak to Mr. Hort could speak to signage and

[1:04:12] the perceived circulation, certainly within the site, but a way of finding

[1:04:17] signs, at least on the building that would direct people to the appropriate

[1:04:23] tenants location.

[1:04:26] So again, I think we've answered all your questions, or do you have any others?

[1:04:30] Now I think that was it, thank you.

[1:04:33] Mr. Chairman, just one, at a minimum.

[1:04:38] The, I think I heard something about the environmental commission report, but I'm going

[1:04:43] to guess that Mr. Stires is the one who will be addressing the environmental commission

[1:04:47] report and recommendations there.

[1:04:49] And so did we, I don't believe we covered that in its entirety, dated August 24th,

[1:04:56] 2026.

[1:04:57] Yeah, I think the bulk of that, if not...

[1:05:00] All the comments pertain to the landscaping, and as I said, I would work with Kendra, and I think working with Kendra would subsume that and kind of take care of all those comments.

[1:05:11] You know, there's some substitution of some of the plantings, some adjust them out and doing a tree removal plan. We have no problem with that, because of bulk of the trees are around the basin.

[1:05:22] So again, it's primarily landscaping related, which again will work with Kendra on.

[1:05:31] So subject to review and approval.

[1:05:35] Yes.

[1:05:36] Okay.

[1:05:37] You go with that?

[1:05:44] I think that's what I had for now.

[1:05:47] Thank you.

[1:05:48] Are there any other trouble?

[1:05:49] And just to reflect that the health department had no comments, so we don't want to know comment report to go on comment they don't

[1:06:00] There you go, can't are there any other questions in your memo that this witness should be answered

[1:06:06] Or any other questions for this

[1:06:11] Thank

[1:06:22] you.

[1:06:23] Thank you.

[1:06:27] Just a little

[1:06:33] bit.

[1:06:35] It's important for the benefit.

[1:06:37] The board, can you please provide the board with your academic and professional credentials?

[1:06:41] I'm sorry.

[1:06:42] My name is Benjamin Horton, H.O.R.T.E.N.

[1:06:46] I am the principal of Ben Horton Architecture Design located at 312 State Route 10, Randolph, New Jersey.

[1:06:52] I received my Bachelor of Fine Arts degree at Carnegie Mellon University.

[1:06:57] I received my Master of Architecture degree at Yale University.

[1:07:01] I had my own firm since 2000.

[1:07:04] I've been practicing architecture for over 33 years.

[1:07:07] I testified at multiple boards throughout New Jersey as well as other states.

[1:07:16] License integers remains a good standing?

[1:07:18] Yes, sir.

[1:07:19] License and New Jersey and numerous other states.

[1:07:24] If I could, I'm going to go to the Architectural Drawings and kind of walk you through where the tenets are going to go.

[1:07:37] My microphone will pull out of that stand if you want to, that's easier for you to reference drawings while you're up there.

[1:07:48] Thank you.

[1:07:49] The drawings that I'm going to present are the drawings that was submitted to the board.

[1:07:54] These were a series of architectural drawings.

[1:07:58] The cover page, I just flipped over.

[1:08:00] The first drawing is A0.02.

[1:08:03] This is the overall building floor plan.

[1:08:07] As you can see, I color-coded the plans.

[1:08:10] The original building was built into multiple parts.

[1:08:13] The main part of the building is this yellow and light green section in the middle.

[1:08:17] This is the original building. I believe that had the barrel vaulted roof

[1:08:22] Behind the building in the to the right. There's a wing that's colored in this aquacolor

[1:08:29] There's two small buildings in the front of the building you can see in the green

[1:08:33] Lobo yellow and the orange here over to the left

[1:08:37] There was a connecting link that tied to this building on the left hand side. That's called unit A and B

[1:08:44] That was like one time as a separate sort of structure and it was connected by a link to the main part of the building.

[1:08:52] As you know it was an old industrial building and making some metal oriented products.

[1:08:59] It was interesting because I got to work with the developer on this building.

[1:09:03] When they first purchased it as you know it was very derelict.

[1:09:07] It was disparate.

[1:09:09] We were able to redo the facade, make the building very attractive,

[1:09:13] cleaned up the interior, and because of that,

[1:09:15] we got some traction and got a lot of tenants interested in the property.

[1:09:21] Right now, what we're talking about is that majority of the building,

[1:09:25] as you can see on the right side, this yellow area, the screen area,

[1:09:30] and this wing going to the back, that's all going to be the main tenants

[1:09:34] that we're talking about.

[1:09:36] The yellow area here you can see is the soccer world.

[1:09:40] It's an indoor soccer facility.

[1:09:43] It's not your typical, like, large soccer

[1:09:45] through the small field.

[1:09:47] There's also, like, a field called foot saw,

[1:09:49] which is like indoor soccer type of activity.

[1:09:52] We're going to put those into this yellow area.

[1:09:56] Their entrances located in this front building.

[1:09:59] Originally, that was a lot of fun.

[1:10:00] The original office portion of the manufacturing facility that's connected through a little link here to the warehouse section that's going to be used as the field area. So they're going to come into this front building, enter through this link, and they're going to come into this building here.

[1:10:15] The on-car ventures, they're going to have in this area,

[1:10:20] show you in the large plan, pickable facilities.

[1:10:23] A bunch of pickable quartz, and then in this light green area,

[1:10:27] there's going to be what looks like batting cages for a quick hit.

[1:10:32] And then there's a little play area in the corner for the kids that's going to be open to,

[1:10:37] you know, maybe the parents who are doing these activities here.

[1:10:41] Their entrance is going to be in the existing door located on the right side of the building.

[1:10:47] We are proposing to put some facade signs on the right side here for the on-car ventures,

[1:10:52] because that's where their main entrance is going to be.

[1:10:55] And you see on the site plan, there's quite a bit of parking on the right side.

[1:10:58] There's parking along the front of the building.

[1:11:01] So the main entrance for the soccer world is going to be in this front part of the building here,

[1:11:06] where this front door is, that's the main entrance of that building.

[1:11:11] If I could take you to the next sheet, this is the enlarge drawing a 1.00-0 shown in light

[1:11:21] detail of the soccer world, portion of the building, that's the, again, if I could go back

[1:11:26] the yellow, this middle section of the building here, and later then I'm going to take

[1:11:32] you to a plan of this right section of the building, shown the pickleball facility and the

[1:11:39] batting cage for the cricket games.

[1:11:42] So here in the large plan on A1.00,

[1:11:44] you can see the front door entrance here.

[1:11:47] We're going to come in into their main entrance lobby area,

[1:11:52] kind of the reception area.

[1:11:54] And as you come in through this connecting link,

[1:11:56] it's going to open up into the soccer field.

[1:11:59] The soccer field, in their soccer field,

[1:12:03] they have like a prefabricated wall

[1:12:06] like around the perimeter, so that when the people are kicking the ball, it kind of stops

[1:12:11] the ball.

[1:12:12] And there will have netting, like you've seen a lot of these indoor facilities to keep

[1:12:16] the balls from going to the adjacent field.

[1:12:18] So be pre-engineered wall system with these netting.

[1:12:25] We are working on alternate options.

[1:12:28] Ultimately, we believe we're going to end up with instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 fields.

[1:12:33] we're going to end up with actually four fields because after discussing and developing the

[1:12:39] interest a little bit more with the client, we felt that making them just slightly bigger

[1:12:45] and less field would be actually beneficial for them. But in essence, this area of middle areas

[1:12:51] can be used for these soccer fields and then this small blue area in the back, that portion

[1:12:58] the building would be used for foot saw.

[1:13:03] And if I could take you to the next sheet,

[1:13:13] a 1.1 sheet, that's the elevation.

[1:13:17] That's the existing building that we did facade restoration on.

[1:13:22] If you go to this site, you'll see that the building

[1:13:25] was cleaned up really nicely.

[1:13:27] The facade was all redone.

[1:13:28] All the windows were made new.

[1:13:30] Right at this, there's a covered entrance here.

[1:13:33] We're proposing to put in a façade sign.

[1:13:36] The client hasn't generated an actual logo for their business.

[1:13:40] They're working with their signage company to develop that.

[1:13:44] But what we're showing is that the signage is going to be approximately two foot high by 23 foot wide

[1:13:50] right at the center here and that the new tenants sign would be approximately 46 square foot,

[1:13:55] which is well within the ordinance requirement.

[1:13:58] And the ordinance allows up to 100 square foot.

[1:14:05] It says that it could be either 5% of the facade

[1:14:09] or 100 square foot, whichever is less.

[1:14:11] So we're under 100 square foot with that sign, proposed sign.

[1:14:15] Again, I'm just showing the placeholder for it.

[1:14:18] That's not what the actual sign is going to look like.

[1:14:21] But the client is working with the design company

[1:14:24] to develop the sign for that.

[1:14:26] The next sheet consists of two parts because as you can see we located a key map showing

[1:14:35] that the unit D and E is a portion of occurs going to take note.

[1:14:41] Unit D is located here in the right corner of the overall building and that unit E is

[1:14:48] that when going out the back, the unit D, I kind of rotated it so if it's on the paper

[1:14:53] so I didn't have to waste more paper.

[1:14:54] but in the front right corner when you first enter we're going to have a little vestibule here.

[1:15:00] In the yellow area, you can see there's some nice awaiting reception area. We call this corner, top right of the plant plays on. It's just going to be open to play area where the kids could go and play.

[1:15:15] In the blue area, imagine this is a big open warehouse. It's going to have these netted batting cages where they play cricket games.

[1:15:24] But basically it'll be similar to what you've seen about in cages that have these netting

[1:15:28] surrounding the top and the sides and they have these cricket type of games that they

[1:15:34] play there.

[1:15:35] This building has this wall that separates that from part of the building from the back

[1:15:42] unit E. There's an opening there which we're going to be able to use to get back into this

[1:15:50] open warehouse area, that's in the back of the building.

[1:15:53] In the back of the building, we're able to put in eight courts.

[1:15:57] You can see it's color-coded, courts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,

[1:16:02] and courts 6, 7, and 8.

[1:16:05] And I don't know if you went to ever been to Pickable Facility,

[1:16:09] but it's basically a big open warehouse area

[1:16:11] where they have low fencing that separates each of the courts.

[1:16:16] And in between the courts and the outspaces there are little tables where you could put your bags and your shoes and things like that and keep it geared there because it's a very social game people, you know, take turns playing and everybody will be kind of be able to hang out here and play at these pickled wall courts.

[1:16:40] And, you know, again, they're all connected, it's acting as one facility with one reception area,

[1:16:46] with some office functions here.

[1:16:50] That's really it.

[1:16:52] Now, if you go to the next page on the entrance,

[1:16:59] the right side of the building, where that barrel vaulted portion of the building is,

[1:17:04] there's an existing door there.

[1:17:05] We're proposing to make that door into a nicer looking front-enchant store and there's these two nice windows there right between the windows

[1:17:13] We thought that's a good place to put their the sign there where there are main entrances and that's going to this again

[1:17:19] We we played put a placeholder for that sign that it's two foot high

[1:17:23] We could fit about a 13 foot wide sign between the windows there and that sign would be approximately 26 square feet

[1:17:31] be located in that area. Again, it's going to be the final design will be developed by the 10

[1:17:37] and their sign vendor, but it would be well within the ordinance requirement. And obviously it

[1:17:42] makes sense that you would put it where the their entrances. Okay? And do you think that that

[1:17:48] entrance location could be easily located if there was a way-finding sign on the property

[1:17:57] I mean, I think it's good to look at the overall building plan, because it's a simple,

[1:18:05] I think a bar type of building.

[1:18:10] If I could go back to the original.

[1:18:15] Now, when you look at the site plan, the parking lot just goes from the front of the building,

[1:18:20] stretches across and wraps around the side of the building.

[1:18:24] There was some additional field area in the old plan where they probably used it as parking,

[1:18:32] but it was like gravel and grass at one time, so there's a lot of land left over there.

[1:18:36] We actually have additional land to the right of our parking areas here, that's still available for our property.

[1:18:42] We have a very big property, and one of the things that we saw when we found this property is said,

[1:18:47] We're not going to be short on parking if we need it, but most times nowadays we try to build

[1:18:54] the right amount of parking, but we do feel that the lot is so big that if you had to accommodate

[1:18:59] a little bit more parking in the future, we could easily accommodate that.

[1:19:02] So that's one of the reasons that we thought that this was a good opportunity to look at these

[1:19:07] type of uses. And currently talking with the tenant, you saw that we're taking up majority of the building.

[1:19:15] We have more than adequate parking.

[1:19:17] We feel we're talking with the tenants.

[1:19:19] I think the tenants could talk about that.

[1:19:22] We talked to the our traffic engineer based on this type of use.

[1:19:27] He felt that we're showing adequate parking.

[1:19:29] But if we have to get more parking, we feel we've got plenty of space to accommodate that.

[1:19:34] With respect to a unit H, that assessor structure,

[1:19:38] or that structure, that's intended to be for storage purposes.

[1:19:42] That was a detached building, it wasn't connected, it used to be, I think, an old boiler building.

[1:19:50] But instead of demolishing it and getting rid of it, we thought that if you have a tenant here,

[1:19:54] that might be a good place to put some of their equipment, so be a nice storage building.

[1:19:58] So that's what we're thinking.

[1:20:05] I think one thing that I would say is that we discussed this, let's side of the building that's the unit A and B. If you looked at the facade, I didn't bring up facade because originally we were looking at these two tenants, but we, when we did the whole building restoration work, we submitted a plan to the building department.

[1:20:27] We did a, I think, a nice job cleaning up the building and make it look attractive.

[1:20:32] They actually looked like they have their own front-enchant stories here.

[1:20:36] All the windows were replaced, made really attractive.

[1:20:39] And I think that's why we're getting all this traction with the perspective tenant.

[1:20:43] The unit B, the building was already kind of broken up into two parts.

[1:20:48] Looks like the original building was actually building B and at one time,

[1:20:52] they added on building A as a pre-engineer type of building.

[1:20:55] Right now, the latest tenant is looking to take the entire unit be here.

[1:21:02] And so they would have their own entrance, again, the parking is along the front here.

[1:21:07] And eventually if the last tenant hopefully would be unit A here and they have their own

[1:21:13] entrance here, another small tenant space that's left is this front entry piece.

[1:21:19] There's a small, very small office area here that has a small basement.

[1:21:22] I did a little inset for that basement area.

[1:21:25] That's a tiny tenant like about 2400 square foot.

[1:21:29] We have this unit G left over, which is about 2300 square foot,

[1:21:33] tiny little space in the front here.

[1:21:35] That's the only thing that's available.

[1:21:37] This one, two, and three spaces left.

[1:21:39] And if you don't know that's fine,

[1:21:42] if you touched on it, let me know.

[1:21:44] Are you aware if there's an existing round-mounted signage on the site already?

[1:21:48] The previously submitted for a payment to do a monument sign that has a multi-tenanted type of a monument sign, so that's already on site and constructed.

[1:22:00] And that monument sign can that also be used for wayfinding purposes as well?

[1:22:05] Right, because I think this is like, I worked on numerous industrial buildings where we rehabbed it like this, and the building is just a simple bar shape.

[1:22:15] There's several entry points, the parking lot wraps around it.

[1:22:19] So as you come to the side, you'll be able to easily see

[1:22:21] where the buildings are in.

[1:22:22] And you've got to imagine that as people get to know this facility

[1:22:27] more, they're going to be able to tell where the tenants are located.

[1:22:31] And speaking on that point, to the extent that the board or the board

[1:22:36] professionals that they want to see canopies or anything,

[1:22:39] else that accentuates entrance locations will work with them.

[1:22:45] We're fine to do that.

[1:22:47] Well, certainly, I mean, no, we could, I think the building, we did a good job making it.

[1:22:52] But if there's something that the board feels is helpful, you know, we could certainly use it.

[1:22:59] Understood.

[1:23:00] Thank you.

[1:23:01] I don't know for the questions.

[1:23:04] Okay.

[1:23:09] Yes.

[1:23:10] Referring to a 1.0.

[1:23:16] So you said the green courts will have a low, hard surface walls.

[1:23:22] that made a plywood?

[1:23:24] It's a P-engineer panel system that the equipment manufacturers, all four sides of the

[1:23:32] court is made with these walls that goes up kind of like a self-feet height and then above

[1:23:38] that are netting.

[1:23:40] How many feet I?

[1:23:42] The wall panels themselves, I can't remember how the 40 inches high, but the above that

[1:23:49] is netting.

[1:23:51] Yeah, 40 inches high.

[1:23:52] And then you have netting that goes up and then also above the ceilings of the ball

[1:23:57] stuff.

[1:23:58] So I spoke of earlier egress out of these courts.

[1:24:04] How's the egress going to work in the rear of the building?

[1:24:06] Well, the code analysis, let me do a summit for building permit.

[1:24:11] You have to design these things based on the occupant load.

[1:24:14] You have to show the whole occupant load analysis and based on the number of people and

[1:24:19] the travel distance, you have to either provide one exit out of that area or possibly two.

[1:24:26] Our studies show that each one of those would need to, like in this case, you can see each

[1:24:31] one of these courts have two exits, exit gates, but we also have exit gates in other places,

[1:24:38] but they're really for maintenance because there's little gaps that we will create between

[1:24:41] the exterior wall and the panel, so we need to get in, be able to get in there.

[1:24:45] But in general, Egress wise, we would have to satisfy the building code requirement for the building

[1:24:52] official to review, but I assure you with these plans, I did a code analysis with

[1:24:56] this specific plan and we meet all the Egressions.

[1:25:00] So all the egress will be out of the front of the building none in the rear.

[1:25:04] No, there is an existing, in this case, like we had proposed to do another exit door towards the end over here, where this yellow corridor is.

[1:25:14] That will provide an exit here and exit here. So there's, actually, there's another door here that exists near this link here.

[1:25:23] But that can't count as an exit from a building code perspective.

[1:25:28] There's a separation distance rule.

[1:25:30] Now, this one in the back here, we have a little gate here that would allow you to open

[1:25:37] to get to this exit or in the back.

[1:25:41] So are all these exit ways situated on the site plan?

[1:25:48] I believe so.

[1:25:53] This is an existing door.

[1:25:55] This is an existing door.

[1:25:57] And this is where the overhead the way is over here.

[1:26:03] Yeah, I'm not sure I can locate them on the plan, but.

[1:26:06] Okay. To the extent that they're not shown,

[1:26:08] we can absolutely update the site plan.

[1:26:12] Right.

[1:26:15] We could, if they're not clear, we could clarify it on the updated drawing for you.

[1:26:21] Yeah, I guess it's starting point start with the analysis,

[1:26:24] We're the required with the building environment, and that's right, right, and I think one of the things that I would ask the board to understand is that, you know, when we developed these conceptual plan for this level of application.

[1:26:39] There tends to be like changes when we do the final building permit application.

[1:26:44] And the building permit application is going to have to satisfy all the building code requirement that the extensive review we do with the building department.

[1:26:51] And if there are some modifications to like the exit points, we would address that on our plan.

[1:26:58] Make sure we have an updated site plan that could be reviewed by your engineer to make sure that it all complies with the any sort of like safety concerns that we might have, or your board professionals may have.

[1:27:21] Board any questions for this witness?

[1:27:22] This is the question on the smaller units F2 and G.

[1:27:30] So what's anticipated for those, or do we know yet?

[1:27:36] Those are the ones in the front.

[1:27:39] Well, we had a whole list of potential tenants that we were thinking about

[1:27:44] because we've been talking with, like, you know,

[1:27:46] we talked about gymnastics, you know, maybe baseball,

[1:27:50] across trainer, dance studio, you know, table tennis, right? Maybe some to just

[1:27:59] sue a martial arts type of facilities. I mean, those would be perfect for that,

[1:28:03] because they're not too big, you know. It might be a nice dojo type of

[1:28:09] facility. So we're kind of open. We don't have specific tennis

[1:28:14] for those few spaceships, but we're really excited that we got

[1:28:18] majority of the place with people interested in it, you know.

[1:28:22] Okay, we're recreation.

[1:28:24] That's correct.

[1:28:27] Okay.

[1:28:33] Mr. Chairman, I have a creative idea since we have three tenants here.

[1:28:37] If you would permit me to do so, I would like to call all three of them and I can ask

[1:28:43] them questions and they can kind of speak to their operations that might be an efficient

[1:28:47] way for the board to hear from all tenants. If that's not your preference, I certainly don't

[1:28:52] have to do that. But I just thought it might be good for timing purposes.

[1:28:58] Yeah, I think a brief overview is fine, but we don't I think must the other board members disagree.

[1:29:04] I think we get the concept of what the businesses are going to operate, but I'd like to say first.

[1:29:11] Traffic. I know the board wants to hear traffic. I do too. I thought that perhaps that hearing

[1:29:16] And testimony on the actual tenants' operations might lay a foundation as to why our traffic

[1:29:22] expert is concluding one layer of the other that E-Blease parking is sufficient.

[1:29:28] So, that traffic is going to be somewhat customized and parking customized to the usage.

[1:29:35] So, having the board having an idea of how many participants are expected on the property

[1:29:40] at one time for each tenant might be helpful to the board in assessing

[1:29:45] and the parking's counts.

[1:29:50] Also, just from, if I may, Mr. Chairman,

[1:29:52] just from a procedural standpoint,

[1:29:54] we didn't call for questions from the public

[1:29:56] for the first two witnesses.

[1:29:58] I don't know the magnitude of.

[1:30:00] Public we have here for questioning purposes, but certainly it's a discretion of the board through the board chair to hold all questioning to the end, along with a comment from any and all public work to do it witnessed by witness or whoever the chair decides.

[1:30:20] I was waiting till we had substantial testimony before we heard from the public, so we didn't from efficiency standpoint.

[1:30:27] So, but the businesses speak, we'll hear their thing, and then we'll open it to the public and let the public ask a couple questions.

[1:30:34] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[1:30:36] So, please have Michael.

[1:30:39] Okay.

[1:30:39] Department of the Office.

[1:30:40] Stand up.

[1:30:55] Why don't you say your name into the microphone and who you're representing?

[1:31:00] What kind of you are?

[1:31:04] And you've got all this water, right?

[1:31:06] Yes.

[1:31:07] Good evening, my name is Ricardo Mendes. I'm the CEO of Soccer World.

[1:31:13] Yeah, that's about it.

[1:31:17] Hello everyone. Good evening. I'm Nick at this side. I'm the managing member for our own car ventures.

[1:31:24] Hello. I'm Harsh Patel. I'm the managing member for our own car ventures as well.

[1:31:30] Good evening. Michael Drullis, owner from Evolution Training Center.

[1:31:34] Been servicing the wonderful families of branch birds since 2007. I'll fulfill town road.

[1:31:38] Okay, just very briefly, if you could please generally describe the activities that would take place in your unit and the number of anticipated participants at any time, I think that'd be.

[1:31:56] And I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but Mr. Sober, if we can have each individual start with by letter, they are unit designation perhaps, so we can follow along.

[1:32:10] And just, you know, perhaps reminding the board and everyone else, soccer, cricket, cheerleading or something like that.

[1:32:20] Yes, sure.

[1:32:24] I'm the soccer guy.

[1:32:25] I'm colored in yellow here with UNITC and F1.

[1:32:30] The activity is taking place in that space.

[1:32:33] We'll be predominantly five-a-side soccer, which is a small-sided soccer.

[1:32:39] It includes anything from classes for youth adult pickups and then league matches.

[1:32:46] So predominantly it's just a soccer activity and just quickly so people don't just

[1:32:52] show up you have to reserve the space you have to be in a class correct so

[1:32:59] everything is basically reserved and booked online so there's we don't really

[1:33:04] have any walk-ins or random people just waiting because everything is it's

[1:33:09] 30 online booking so would you would you agree that you have some sort of

[1:33:14] control over the number of participants that are coming.

[1:33:18] Yes, thanks very much.

[1:33:18] I urge you of how someone reserves the courts or fields, is there a max anticipated participant

[1:33:27] in your space that you can testify to?

[1:33:31] Yes, sure.

[1:33:32] So at maximum occupancy with all the fields being used, we have 40 participants, which is very rare

[1:33:38] because the schedule is kind of staggered.

[1:33:41] And so it's very rare that all 40 of them are there at the same time.

[1:33:47] So, you know, someone might use the field for an hour.

[1:33:50] The other one will use it for an hour and a half or two hours.

[1:33:54] And so therefore, they're not exchanging at the same time.

[1:33:56] Right. So the games don't necessarily all start at the same exact time.

[1:33:59] Correct. And I'm just briefly, can you touch upon any accessory?

[1:34:05] Uses are components that you anticipate for your unit.

[1:34:09] Yeah, so we have we'll offer like birthday parties and you know that sort of thing for for the youth

[1:34:18] But as essentially it's just let's just soccer play most most to go on on

[1:34:22] You're anticipating carpooling for birthday parties. Yes, it's very typical that

[1:34:29] Carpooling both on the youth side and the adults. It's typically carpooling. So that and

[1:34:35] Sorry, I've just tried to get through it here, but briefly

[1:34:40] You're going to sell any merchandise on the property. Are you selling beverages pre-packaged food?

[1:34:45] Anything that at the board should be aware of in terms of assessor your subordinate to your principal

[1:34:51] Shrek use. Yes, no merchandise

[1:34:55] But we do plan on selling

[1:34:57] pre-packaged beverages and foods

[1:35:00] A small concessions thing, which is not uncommon for sports facility, but nothing outside of that.

[1:35:06] And we obviously are seeking a D1 use variance, so just anticipated hours of operation, if you can touch upon that weekday hours of operation, weekends if it's any different.

[1:35:17] Sure.

[1:35:17] Yeah, so we plan on operating from Monday to Friday from 3 p.m. to 12 a.m.

[1:35:24] and then Saturday and Sunday from 8 a.m. from 8 a.m. until 12 a.m.

[1:35:31] And just because your hours are what they are.

[1:35:34] Can you explain to the board why you feel it's necessary to have operations and flexibility to go until midnight?

[1:35:43] It's typical for the later hours are usually where we cater to the adults and so a lot

[1:35:50] of them are coming out from work at late hours and they're looking for space to play.

[1:35:57] So that's why the late hours anticipated employee count.

[1:36:02] So we'll have one part timer and one full-time at all times and then they'll alternate.

[1:36:10] Okay, and then I think that's a general idea of the operation, so I'm going to ask similar questions to the next tenant.

[1:36:21] I want to question if I may.

[1:36:24] Sorry about that.

[1:36:25] The 40 participants, is that inclusive of the four employees or are those separate, it's a separate calculation?

[1:36:35] with employees, it technically it's 42 because we have two at every time. So yeah.

[1:36:43] Another question. How do the sessions run? How long are they? Are they back the back

[1:36:49] immediately? Do you have people showing up in the parking lot? Well, the first session is fully loaded.

[1:36:56] What kind of turn up? What kind of overlap do we have in the parking lot?

[1:37:00] Sure, sessions are typically, they're either an hour, an hour and a half or two hours,

[1:37:07] and typically the session ends, they usually change shoes and then they leave.

[1:37:13] And so there's a gap in between each session of roughly 10 to 15 minutes to allow that

[1:37:19] that exchange of people.

[1:37:21] If I may just be clear, though, is it going to be structured so that there is, in fact, a 15-minute gap

[1:37:27] between the end of one session and the beginning of the next, or is it just that the guys and

[1:37:33] the gals are going to change your shoes, but there's no gap.

[1:37:38] No, there is a gap built in into like the booking time set.

[1:37:42] 15, somebody will stop, 130, the next one will pick up.

[1:37:46] And like the two minute gap is there for shoe changing and arguably for people to

[1:37:50] come and go.

[1:37:51] Yes.

[1:37:52] I'm sorry.

[1:37:53] I just wanted to make sure I understand.

[1:37:55] Answer to the actual question.

[1:38:00] I just want one question, sorry, on the on the days, where there would be birthday parties which I would assume are on the weekends and you have you have five courts or five fields or four fields.

[1:38:16] It's four fields.

[1:38:17] Okay.

[1:38:17] Four four fields.

[1:38:19] That's the 40 participants correct.

[1:38:21] Correct.

[1:38:22] Yes.

[1:38:22] If they were all filled.

[1:38:23] Correct.

[1:38:24] Does it change with if you're been in birthday party?

[1:38:28] Is that increased?

[1:38:28] No, it's still the max, max occupancy.

[1:38:32] So essentially, the three other fields will have their regular play.

[1:38:35] And then one field gets designated for the birthday party.

[1:38:37] And then, and they, and that, so they,

[1:38:40] you won't use that birthday party room separately.

[1:38:42] That's part and parcel of the character field.

[1:38:46] Okay.

[1:38:47] And then League play, does that change how this works?

[1:38:50] Do people hang about to, like, around Robin type of thing?

[1:38:54] No, League play it.

[1:38:56] Usually you have a scheduled match at a certain time, you show up and you play and then you

[1:39:01] usually...

[1:39:01] Do you want to have like tournaments and that type of thing?

[1:39:04] We do have...

[1:39:05] We do plan on having tournaments like short tournaments.

[1:39:08] Usually we will use all the fields for those set tournaments, so we'll block out those hours

[1:39:14] for any other like classes or pickups or whatever, so there'll be specific days that we run

[1:39:19] tournaments on a specific time slot.

[1:39:22] And so therefore the whole facility will be the tournament.

[1:39:25] So, when you have classes, you will limit your classes to 10 people for field.

[1:39:31] Thanks.

[1:39:33] It's a German-fucked S1-Mortons.

[1:39:36] The waste design now, I know it has five versus four.

[1:39:39] It's going to be four fields.

[1:39:41] But it also, on the site layout, has a birthday arena area.

[1:39:48] And it's at least conceivable unless you tell us otherwise,

[1:39:51] that you could have the four fields full with 40 people, two employees, but you could have.

[1:40:00] A group of, maybe ten or so, in the birthday arena, having refreshments or whatever.

[1:40:07] Yes, earthquake cake.

[1:40:10] This were just, sorry, these were just concept plans that we were playing with.

[1:40:16] But that birthday arena, we've decided to use one of the spaces in the front part, one of the rooms.

[1:40:23] So that will eliminate the birthday arena so it we we're not really having that birthday arena

[1:40:29] It's just the room where they can set up, you know, the cake and whatnot and then the this field where they can actually go and take

[1:40:36] I'm getting out is that that

[1:40:38] Isn't it true that you get a 40 participants on the four fields two employees

[1:40:45] What seemed to me at least two, but maybe two and max two and then in that other location

[1:40:51] maybe it's in building F for F1, whatever it is now, you can have people in the birthday party room,

[1:40:58] so in essence you would have more than 42 people at any given time.

[1:41:03] Sure, if you include the parents, the participants are the kids playing and then the parents

[1:41:09] that are usually waiting for the kids. So let's get in terms of body count, there could potentially be more.

[1:41:17] But as far as participants, it's the 40 that we can add.

[1:41:21] The question might be that are you going to have the kids in the designated birthday

[1:41:27] food room simultaneously while having someone else use the same court that the kids were

[1:41:34] just on?

[1:41:34] Is there going to be overlap?

[1:41:36] No, there are signs for that field.

[1:41:38] Only the birthday kids will have access to that one field during their time slot.

[1:41:45] So whenever somebody's in a birthday room, that feels open, nobody's on it.

[1:41:51] Correct. Yes, that's for the birthday party itself. The only the birthday party attendees

[1:41:56] can use that field. In other words, you're reserving both spaces, you're reserving a field

[1:42:01] and the birthday room simultaneously. You cannot reserve just the field and not the birthday room

[1:42:08] or vice versa. Correct. Ten things.

[1:42:12] I just want to make sure I have the number correct.

[1:42:15] So you have 42 participants, correct, meaning either employees or players, right?

[1:42:23] For all of those 42 are going to be the employees and then there could be additional number

[1:42:30] of parents.

[1:42:32] It's 40 players, if you will.

[1:42:35] And I think that very soon you're going to hear from Mr. Dean, which will speak to why we're using participants.

[1:42:44] It's based upon the ITE standards.

[1:42:47] It doesn't necessarily dictate how many people are on the property at one time.

[1:42:52] It's trying to come up with a realistic number to assess the car volume.

[1:42:58] Because of course you could have a vehicle and have four people in it.

[1:43:01] You can have three people in it.

[1:43:03] I don't want to speak from Mr. Dean, but that's why I think that's why Ricardo is

[1:43:10] keying in on participant and trying to distinguish between a participant and somebody who

[1:43:14] might be at the facility.

[1:43:17] Not every participant is going to have a vehicle, not everyone who's at the facility is

[1:43:23] going to have a vehicle.

[1:43:25] And I don't mean to assume why you're asking questions.

[1:43:28] I think that's why you're asking it, but I think that we'll have explanation why we're

[1:43:36] honing in on the participant.

[1:43:38] No, I mean, I understand that we're going to have a more concrete number of all the people

[1:43:44] in that place, I guess, maybe through related testimonies that we're saying.

[1:43:49] I think that I would answer that by saying that we would comply with whatever code requirements

[1:43:56] there are in place for occupancy, but in terms of traffic parking counts, etc. That's what

[1:44:05] you're going to hear testimony on why we're using the word participant as our measurement.

[1:44:12] If I may as I TE parking for these recreational uses based on participant and not occupant or

[1:44:20] that is correct. That is what I'm trying to say. I think what I'm hearing is from a parking perspective

[1:44:24] and there may be other reasons why one might want to know how many people are in the building

[1:44:28] in any given time. But simply from a parking perspective, the proper proper hearing from

[1:44:34] council is it's going to tie to participants not parents who may be waiting around for kids or

[1:44:42] or kids eating cake in a birthday room or something. That's exactly right. I didn't into a

[1:44:47] assume if you were asking, you know, from an occupancy standpoint to touch from parking,

[1:44:52] And I just know we've been focused on parking, so it's coming very shortly.

[1:45:02] Any other questions for Roberto from soccer world?

[1:45:08] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:45:12] Hello everyone. We are representing on-car branches. So, building D and E will occupy

[1:45:19] netted turf, which will have cricket and baseball tunnels.

[1:45:24] And building E will have a pickleball coach. When it comes to cricket, everything

[1:45:30] what we are planning to do and what the game works, each at one given time only four people

[1:45:38] can play in a tunnel and at the same time when it comes to pickleball only maximum four people

[1:45:44] can play on pickleball on pickleball code as well. Now what we have designed in a way that every game

[1:45:53] will be on code reservation open play sessions as well as any of the instructions will have

[1:45:59] that maximum number of the occupancy on the code,

[1:46:03] as well as on the turf.

[1:46:05] So at a given time, only four people can play on each code.

[1:46:08] They have to reserve the codes.

[1:46:12] And every reservation works in a 50 minute segment

[1:46:16] for the code reservations.

[1:46:17] As well as when it comes to open play,

[1:46:20] we provide three codes, which will have total of 12 people,

[1:46:24] and that will go for 60 to 90 minutes.

[1:46:26] And that is dependent on the structure

[1:46:29] of that open play and that's the way we are planning to run for the pickleball as well as for the

[1:46:36] for the tough tough games. So what you're you're going to have a reservation similar to the

[1:46:44] testimony we just heard from the Cardox. It will be there will be no walkings it has to be

[1:46:49] completely online reservations. Every code has to be resolved from that manner whether it is for

[1:46:57] classes whether it is for court reservations or for open play sessions. Same goes for netting

[1:47:03] and tunnels. Everything will be resolved online and that management we are doing that with

[1:47:09] the professional company called court reserve.

[1:47:13] Is it so just going off of some of the questions that the board and the board professionals

[1:47:17] asked with the last witness? Is everyone starting in the exact same time or start time staggered?

[1:47:25] That is that work.

[1:47:26] So for each every for every code it is 50 minute timeline and that 10 minutes what we are doing is we are keeping the time for the change.

[1:47:35] So there will not be overlap of people coming in and getting out.

[1:47:41] At the same time it will be scheduled from morning 7am to 10pm.

[1:47:46] That is our Monday to Monday through Friday timing and for Saturdays it will be 6am to 10pm.

[1:47:54] for some days it will be from 7 to 6pm.

[1:47:57] The reason we are having the most the maximum traffic what we expect as part of the players

[1:48:05] and part of the second says you said is during the time frame of 5 to 10 because we at this particular

[1:48:11] spot is more into youth adults and seniors. So that is the time frame which is more suitable for them

[1:48:19] And that is the time which we will have where you will see the maximum occupancy of the

[1:48:24] courts.

[1:48:25] Because you have eight courts and they will have design open place based on the ratings

[1:48:30] and gradings.

[1:48:32] So theoretically, if I wanted to reserve a court, could I reserve it for an hour and then

[1:48:38] if my friend one of the members, it's 50 minutes, so if it is between 8 to 850, that will be

[1:48:48] time for reserving a code and the next code booking will be 9 to 9 50. So that's how we

[1:48:53] we run the code bookings. But if I really like Pickleball and I want to play, I can book two

[1:48:58] sessions, right? It's one person might be booking one session, another Pickleball fanatic might be there

[1:49:06] for two sessions. It's not, you don't have to leave necessarily at the 50 minute mark. You have flexibility

[1:49:14] reserve it. Yes, or more time. Number of employees that you anticipate. So we are the managing

[1:49:22] members, but at the same time we will have one full-time program coordinator who will manage

[1:49:27] the floor and we will have two part-time employees which will be on the rotating basis depending

[1:49:34] on the traffic and on the weekends sessions. So including yourselves the maximum number of employees

[1:49:42] you're anticipating counting you as an employee just you're at the at the property.

[1:49:47] It took me four. Okay. And then that might that might be lower if it's not busy and okay.

[1:49:54] Maximum minimum two maximum four. Okay.

[1:49:59] Assess.

[1:50:00] Uses that you're considering. Any assessory uses, are you having any food and beverage offerings to

[1:50:05] you and to the paper, pay parties?

[1:50:08] From back to city's perspective, it's pickleball. When it comes to pickleball, it will be just

[1:50:12] a record and ball. When it comes to cricket, the cricket bad ball, we will have in-house

[1:50:18] bowling machine. And when it comes to food and beverages, we are looking into running machines.

[1:50:24] and as Ricardo said, the concession center, so that they can buy any refreshments or water or things like package.

[1:50:33] Deep package.

[1:50:36] I think that's it for me.

[1:50:43] From Monday to Friday, it will be 7am to 10pm.

[1:50:47] For Saturdays, it will be 6am to 10pm.

[1:50:50] And for Sundays, it will be 6 to 6.

[1:50:57] Birthday parties.

[1:50:59] When it comes to body parties, we are, for one particular code, they can reserve a code and maximum six to 12 people can accommodate.

[1:51:09] If there are more than six people, we give two codes.

[1:51:12] So the number of people coming in for body parties will determine the number of codes assignment.

[1:51:19] So for each body parties, maximum six, if they have more people, they have to book another code as well.

[1:51:26] So, um, so each if a court is reserved for a birthday party the maximum number of children would be six.

[1:51:34] Yes. And if you have more friends coming to your birthday party,

[1:51:37] you have the book couple of quotes because it won't be suffice for people to enjoy and play.

[1:51:43] If there is only one court and if there are more than 12 people, it will not accommodate even the players or even for the people who are playing.

[1:51:51] Okay, and you have a play zone, is that like a separate membership or house that work?

[1:51:57] No, it's just a play area for people who are coming in and they can just hang out so we are trying to create just the rest like

[1:52:04] a lounge area where they can hang out, we're gonna put a small football table or a ping pong table,

[1:52:11] so they can play, it is nothing regarding membership or anything.

[1:52:17] So, I'm not a math whiz, but it looks like the maximum number of folks that would be

[1:52:22] participants that would be in here would be probably 52.

[1:52:26] 32.

[1:52:27] 32 for pickleball, and when it comes to cricket, if you for five tunnels, if you count

[1:52:34] even four, that would be another 20, so yeah, your number is 52.

[1:52:38] 52, and then four employees, it may go up a little bit if there's a birthday party occurring.

[1:52:44] Yes.

[1:52:45] Thank

[1:52:50] you.

[1:52:50] Thank you.

[1:52:51] I don't know.

[1:52:52] It must the board has.

[1:52:53] We're questions.

[1:52:57] No.

[1:52:57] Thank you.

[1:53:07] Thank you.

[1:53:08] Thank you.

[1:53:12] Thank you.

[1:53:12] Michael Drillisov, we should train center.

[1:53:14] Unit B.

[1:53:15] Ironically, I'm the cheer and gymnastics guy.

[1:53:18] Michael, you heard a lot of the questions that were asked.

[1:53:20] A lot of the answers.

[1:53:22] Can you just provide the board with some background regarding your operations.

[1:53:26] you've been in existence for X number of years, hours of operation, employees, participants.

[1:53:33] Sure. Sure. The business began in 1998. We were in Somerside County, 2007.

[1:53:41] Post COVID, we were shut down in COVID and our operation still operates the same coming out.

[1:53:47] So we have a 50-minute class sessions with a 10-minute break in between to accommodate people coming

[1:53:53] going and it just worked well in our model for our business. We do small group training from

[1:54:01] beginner to elite. A lot of one-on-one private instruction. So it's sessions are 50 minutes. I have

[1:54:09] forcing your staff, experts in the field. They work with small group environments. Generally

[1:54:15] their schedules is one-on-one, so we'll have if we have three senior staff to improve private instruction.

[1:54:21] that would be six people. We do have a class structure. It's the same 12-month calendar of classes all year.

[1:54:32] The classes start generally after school. They'll go until, you know, one of the kids schedule.

[1:54:38] So once we home for homework and dinner right at 30, so our last class will generally get out at 8 o'clock.

[1:54:45] We may have a class going on, classes are six kids, and some private instruction.

[1:54:53] So generally, the given take the flow, there's about 15 in the gym in a busy time.

[1:54:59] We have one second.

[1:55:00] Full-time administrative staff. She works off-site. She's 830 to 430. And then I'm an owner operator.

[1:55:09] If you had to ballpark your estimating 15 people utilizing your space at one time?

[1:55:15] Say it's fair. That's, yes.

[1:55:18] Okay. And then I was speaking to the applicant. You gave the hours of operation anticipated.

[1:55:26] Yes, yeah, we'll start around three o'clock kids get at a school. Some of our high school age students

[1:55:32] Some of the kids will get there around that time back and then we'll go till about 8.8.30 and then on Saturdays

[1:55:40] First class was started around eight nine in the morning. That's when the little time you one show up and then we're usually done by one on Saturdays

[1:55:48] Sundays at day to rest the staff rest their bodies so we only have special scheduled events on Sunday as needed

[1:55:53] We don't do birthday parties

[1:55:56] I have no further questions.

[1:56:02] So this is not a competitive tier business model.

[1:56:06] Is no longer a competitive tier business model.

[1:56:09] Thank you.

[1:56:13] Okay.

[1:56:15] Just a general comment to help with the parking situation.

[1:56:20] I think these tenants should consider offsetting their intervals,

[1:56:26] so that you're not flipping all eight courts at the same time,

[1:56:30] We're flipping all five fields at the same time, if you can offset the intervals, then it reduces

[1:56:37] the impact of the change over parking, which is a concern from my standpoint, but we can speak

[1:56:42] to that later.

[1:56:44] We would stipulate to doing that.

[1:56:46] We can certainly do that.

[1:56:49] Also with, I know we've heard 10 to 15 minutes in between, but that's convenient for the actual

[1:56:57] facility inside, but not everyone's leaving immediately. They're hanging around maybe, and so

[1:57:04] I would imagine there's going to be some overlap between sessions with parking.

[1:57:12] That's been

[1:57:13] my experience. Yeah. I would imagine you have the person that has to get to their next

[1:57:17] thing, and they're out of there immediately, and then you have people that are hanging around

[1:57:21] socializing, talking. So I think you're going to have a different experience with if there's

[1:57:27] not going to be, this isn't how it is. Everyone's going to have a different experience coming

[1:57:33] and going, I think it's just different. It's hard to project exactly when everyone is leaving,

[1:57:40] everyone is going. So what I would want to know for that situation is how does that factor

[1:57:47] to your parking allocation or the traffic.

[1:57:51] Yes.

[1:58:00] I think since we've heard the business testimony,

[1:58:02] unless there's any other questions or professionals

[1:58:04] or the board, or open it to the public,

[1:58:06] so if the public has any questions that they would like to ask.

[1:58:10] And just for clarification by May, Mr. Chairman,

[1:58:12] this is questions of any of the three-fact witnesses,

[1:58:16] as well as the prior two witnesses, the architect,

[1:58:19] and the engineer.

[1:58:20] Thank you.

[1:58:23] Seeing no members of the public stepping forward,

[1:58:26] I motion to close to the public.

[1:58:30] All in favor?

[1:58:31] All in favor?

[1:58:32] All in favor?

[1:58:32] Okay.

[1:58:33] It's Chairman.

[1:58:34] The moment we've all been waiting for.

[1:58:36] Our star witness.

[1:58:37] It's the ball.

[1:58:38] Thank you.

[1:58:40] Good evening.

[1:58:45] Gary Dean, DEA, and of Dolan and Dean Consulting Engineers in Summerville, and I am the

[1:58:52] Traffic Engineering Consultant for the applicant of the Pied.

[1:58:55] Many times before this board, as well as the Planning Board over the past 35 or so years.

[1:59:01] My sense is in good stance.

[1:59:02] Yes, it is.

[1:59:03] My apologies.

[1:59:04] Mr. Dean, well, it's up to testimony.

[1:59:06] You've been before the bill.

[1:59:06] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[1:59:10] I think because parking seems to be the main issue,

[1:59:15] I'd like to address that, if that's acceptable to the board.

[1:59:18] Just for identification purposes,

[1:59:21] I did prepare and submit a traffic impact analysis for the facility.

[1:59:26] It stated May 4th of this year.

[1:59:28] It includes traffic counts when we would expect this facility to be busiest or the road would be busiest and that's

[1:59:36] principally during after noon hours on a weekday or on a Saturday.

[1:59:42] While I did just learn from the applicant that some of these components may be open in the morning or

[1:59:50] should I say not the applicant attendance.

[1:59:53] Traditionally that has not been a particularly active time in terms of the U.C.

[2:00:00] Even though it's available and open, so we didn't study that in particular. My appearances before

[2:00:08] the planning board have included both North Branch Walk, which is under construction, I'll

[2:00:15] say, behind or to the west of the subject property. And soon, I think this board will be hearing

[2:00:30] And with all of that background and work and my involvement with those other projects, we have taken a fairly comprehensive look at the overall traffic environment.

[2:00:42] We are aware of the fact that your master plan and I certainly know Mr. Ball has been pursuing the ultimate extension of myster avenue to connect both ends from county light to Reddington.

[2:00:55] I don't know that any of us in the room though, and that'll happen, so we didn't quite

[2:01:00] forecast that into the overall analysis.

[2:01:05] We did contrast the proposed traffic from an athletic or recreational facility with a

[2:01:12] light industrial, and just given some of the population numbers, you just heard, yes, it

[2:01:17] will be busier.

[2:01:18] So we needed to look at, well, the driveway's work safely and efficiently, and will

[2:01:24] be a negative impact on operations at Myster and Reddington.

[2:01:29] If anyone has any questions about that methodology or the findings, I'd be happy to get

[2:01:34] into that but I think the parking and the non-coincident nature that you've heard in terms

[2:01:41] of scheduling will tend to spread the traffic out.

[2:01:45] This isn't like an employment-based facility where five o'clock six o'clock most leave.

[2:01:51] This will be distributed over multiple hours throughout the afternoon and into the evening.

[2:01:58] Nevertheless, and I took very copious notes during all of that testimony,

[2:02:04] we did look at parking based on how many people could be in the building.

[2:02:10] We said participants, and I think we should err on the side of being conservative and assume not only participants,

[2:02:18] But those who work there because presumably they'll need to park

[2:02:22] So I'll do my best to recap as as succinctly as I can just to get to the bottom line numbers and as you heard there will be eight pickleball courts

[2:02:35] with

[2:02:36] up to a maximum of four participants per court

[2:02:41] 32 spaces for the people playing

[2:02:47] Partners, husband and wife, who may drive in the same car to play, will just pull that and assume everyone who's playing on a pickleball court drove themselves to the site.

[2:03:01] So that's 32 spaces.

[2:03:03] We then have the cricket tunnels and add four participants per tunnel that's 20 spaces.

[2:03:10] Then we have four soccer fields, five on five competition instruction, what have you, and that could be up to 40 participants.

[2:03:21] So that brings us to 92 spaces.

[2:03:25] We then have to include the employees.

[2:03:27] and I heard at any one time there would be two employees for no, I stand corrected.

[2:03:37] Four employees for pickleball and cricket and that would be the manager, the two

[2:03:42] part timers and the one full time. We then have soccer as Ricardo indicated he would

[2:03:50] have same thing, not all those employees would be there at the same time, but two maximum

[2:03:56] at once, and then for the geogenastic space that could also have four staff. As I add

[2:04:05] all that up, it's 102 parking spaces and the plan has 120. So we have a buffer of about

[2:04:14] just under 20%. The participants for the geogenastics, I will assume that they are not of

[2:04:23] So there would be a traffic component with that activity but those parents would drop off

[2:04:30] or care providers and then leave.

[2:04:33] I don't imagine there's a need for them to wait for 50 minutes.

[2:04:37] So I haven't assumed that those 15 participants would drive or would need parking.

[2:04:43] But let's assume they did.

[2:04:46] That brings my total to 117.

[2:04:48] we still have sufficient parking under this plan. So there are a lot of assumptions built

[2:04:54] into that. That means everybody who can fit on a court or on a field is due to

[2:05:00] So, at the exact same time, and they would need parking. Does that happen? I guess, for this purpose, we should assume it does.

[2:05:10] But I think through this exercise, I'll call it worst case. In my opinion, we have sufficient parking for employees and participants.

[2:05:22] I will say the site has room to fit more parking, where evaluating that because as you've heard tonight the rental spaces or units A and B could follow the same type of activity, but as Mr. Ball indicated, I think as I understood, we'll need to come back once those tenants have been identified and again there's some

[2:05:47] player application you said A and B. I thought that was the unit numbers.

[2:05:51] Didn't we hear the cheers and B?

[2:05:53] Yes, the cheers.

[2:05:54] I'm sorry.

[2:05:55] Okay.

[2:05:55] So it's A and B.

[2:05:57] So it's only A.

[2:05:59] That's okay.

[2:06:00] Up front, enough energy if I'm going to.

[2:06:04] Thank you Mr. Water.

[2:06:05] I think so.

[2:06:07] Could you be comfortable if I should actually show it to me part three right now and you don't want to

[2:06:10] go ahead?

[2:06:11] No, I think that's fine.

[2:06:12] So we actually, we actually did come prepared this evening because we

[2:06:17] thought that the board would have questions regarding parking and I had previously mentioned

[2:06:22] generally on that when we were preparing the site plan we were very constrained trying to keep

[2:06:26] everything as a minor development. But once it became a major development we explored a scenario

[2:06:32] with respect to banked parking. So I'm going to pull an exhibit up that was not presented with

[2:06:39] our application that will have to mark and Mr. Dean will present the exhibit.

[2:06:44] A1 is a, I'm going to guess, thank you.

[2:06:48] That's correct.

[2:06:56] I'm going to have a property on the northern side here.

[2:06:59] I'm going to just grab the microphone for us, Council.

[2:07:01] Sorry about that.

[2:07:07] Mr. Stuyers had previously testified about the northern portion of the property.

[2:07:13] I'll, I'll come up.

[2:07:15] So I just, like, just for, this will be exhibit A1 and it is.

[2:07:21] It's partying plan, right?

[2:07:23] And that it was a who prepared it and what exactly is it?

[2:07:29] It's entitled Site Plan Rendering Prepared by Stires Associates with a date of today, 9126,

[2:07:37] and it's just an exhibit recognizing the nature of relief that's being sought is an

[2:07:44] and alasum-reddington road runs north south, so technically north is to the right side of the exhibit,

[2:07:50] making this the the westerly side of of the longer portion or deeper portion of the building and Craig

[2:07:57] I think it's 48 additional spaces 49. Thank you.

[2:08:02] In an area that can be adequately drained and there's a lot of storm water that I know nothing about

[2:08:08] but my understanding is that that infrastructure can accommodate that that additional

[2:08:13] uh, paved the area, but that does bring our parking ups substantially to 169 with that.

[2:08:24] And again, as we're looking to fill and get tenants in that remaining one unit space,

[2:08:30] I think that becomes a very logical area to fully engineer and evaluate.

[2:08:36] Mr. Dean, the board professionals and obviously the board, I've not had the benefit of evaluating

[2:08:42] this bank parking proposal prior to tonight's hearing right under that is correct yes

[2:08:47] is it fair to say that this is a demonstration that if there were parking difficulties on the

[2:08:54] on the site that there are means to accommodate those difficulties elsewhere in the site it's you're

[2:08:59] not necessarily saying that this is exactly what we would do but it's is it just to demonstrate that

[2:09:04] there are other options correct then I think just in looking at it I think we could even be a

[2:09:11] a bit more efficient with that design and get the supply north of at least 50 if not 55

[2:09:16] spaces. Just by, I'll say, putting head in parking all around the perimeter as best as we

[2:09:23] can, it's more efficient than having the layout we have. But we can get at least 49 parking

[2:09:30] spaces, yes. I'm very comfortable with that. So again, that would bring our total to 49 plus

[2:09:36] 120, so we're at 169 roughly 170, at least.

[2:09:41] And you were already comfortable with the originally proposed parking

[2:09:45] counts.

[2:09:46] Yes, there's been a dynamic process with swapping out the industrial

[2:09:54] trying to tackle the concerns that were raised with whether

[2:09:58] two-principle use it

[2:10:00] Or perhaps one might say incompatible uses between an industrial use and recreational by converting

[2:10:07] the entire building to recreational. We obviously solved that problem. So when I did my original

[2:10:13] calculations, we segregated out the industrial space and office, which have much lower parking

[2:10:19] requirements. But nevertheless, even having gone through the math and testimony you heard

[2:10:24] night and then combined with this and I think our planner will wrap it up nicely is that we in my opinion

[2:10:31] from a traffic engineering perspective meet the site suitability test that's part of the

[2:10:36] variance that's being requested and that the property is certainly has the ability to accommodate this

[2:10:44] and a safe controlled and efficient manner. Some of the other features while I'm just describing it

[2:10:50] would be 360 degree full circulation for fire and emergency vehicles around the entire building

[2:10:57] perimeter. All of the new interior aisles would be 24 feet, where we are actually doing

[2:11:05] construction. There was one little bit of relief that was discussed, and that is, and I'm

[2:11:12] going to use my scales, but I'm at the very southern end of the building, the southwest corner.

[2:11:16] There is an existing rear access drive that was for trucks to serve unit A. That access

[2:11:25] aisle is 24 feet. I think the ordinance is, excuse me, that aisle is 22 feet. The ordinance

[2:11:33] might be 24. I will say it's worked presumably free from defect for decades. 22 feet is

[2:11:41] than most streets. So in my opinion, it's certainly suitable to safely accommodate two-way traffic.

[2:11:48] I am not in favor of unnecessarily adding more impervious coverage where it's not essential

[2:11:56] for traffic safety and I have zero issues with 22 feet safely continuing to carry traffic.

[2:12:04] There is one element that came up. I think in the fire officials report where they wanted

[2:12:10] And I'm going by memory now, I believe it's 26 feet where there is a fire hydrant and there has been a request to put a fire hydrant directly behind.

[2:12:21] I'll say buildings A and B. We meet that 26 feet of width and there's a detail in the fire officials report that shows that.

[2:12:31] But that same area, which is directly adjacent to the hydrant just for maneuvering and connections,

[2:12:38] doesn't apply along the balance of the connector aisle, because there isn't a hydrant.

[2:12:44] So we would meet that standard that the fire official has requested.

[2:12:49] All of the other areas of the site, including that aisle, will provide full circulation for two-way traffic flow.

[2:12:56] I did hear the discussion Mr. Ball raise the concern about the depth of the parking areas

[2:13:03] or aisle in front of units A and B. A 60 foot ribbon of asphalt accommodates an 18 foot

[2:13:13] deep parking space, a 24 foot aisle for maneuvering and another 18 foot space. We have about

[2:13:26] are they, I don't know, 40 or so parking spaces, whether it's worth to tear up more greens

[2:13:34] face and put down more black top, when this has clearly operated for decades, for Taylor

[2:13:42] forge, and I see no need to change it, but obviously if the board or your professionals

[2:13:48] feel strongly enough, we can do that.

[2:13:51] The other thing that could be done is to consider vehicle overhang and use wheel stops or things where we effectively meet the 24 feet of Iowa with just by having the cars pull forward a little bit more.

[2:14:05] But either way, it can be accomplished if needed. And I think those are the only, oh, there was one other aspect about pedestrian circulation.

[2:14:14] And we have proposed to continue, I'll say, the pathway along the little appendages for

[2:14:22] give me, I forget the unit numbers, I think one of them was G. What we've done is that

[2:14:28] we have shown a striped pathway and I think Kendra raised a concern about what you're walking

[2:14:36] behind a parking space. Well, we do right outside here in Holland Brook School and your

[2:14:42] schools all have a traditional double-loaded parking field where people walk in the aisle

[2:14:48] that's safe, it's clear, there's tons of visibility.

[2:14:52] The fact that we just put striping behind those spaces, I don't think in any way, changes

[2:14:55] what is a common parking lot design.

[2:15:01] I'm not sure where the issue is with that, but we can, I don't know that we can start to introduce up, I'm going to point news that scale, but I'll say instead of having a straight walking area where then dips in behind the parking spaces and then goes along the side of the building and then comes back out, I can say with absolute certainty, people walking straight line.

[2:15:26] Can we remove those spaces all together since you have more parking in the rear?

[2:15:32] I'll leave that to the boards with them.

[2:15:34] I have no trouble with them like I said, it's the design you're having your own parking

[2:15:38] where people park and walk in in the aisle, but you're directing people.

[2:15:44] Walk in a parking lot is different than creating an actual space to walk behind there,

[2:15:49] but that'd be one way to solve it, it's just take away those parking spaces.

[2:15:53] I'm not in favor of taking away parking at this phase.

[2:15:57] I'd be more in favor of getting rid of the striping.

[2:16:01] People are still going to walk in the aisle,

[2:16:06] but we just haven't sanctioned it with a striped area behind those spaces.

[2:16:12] Again, it's a belt and suspenders approach to providing that continuous walkway.

[2:16:20] But if it's turning out to be objectionable, like I said, we can just get rid of the striping.

[2:16:28] I mean, usually you don't want to have employee parking.

[2:16:30] I would think close to the main entrance is, but would that be a possibility if we keep them to have that designated employee parking just because it's perhaps less utilized than I don't know.

[2:16:44] Here's my take on that.

[2:16:45] And if pedestrian safety is what's driving that concern, I'd rather have, call it the customers,

[2:16:52] the clients, the participants park closest to the entrances, rather than having the employees

[2:16:58] there, that means the participants in their traffic are all crossing the same aisle anyway.

[2:17:04] So we really haven't accomplished much.

[2:17:06] It could be done, yes, if, like I said, if the concern is a lot of backing maneuvers from

[2:17:13] those dozen or so spaces and having the concern of people walking in that strike area.

[2:17:21] Oftentimes you'll see in front of a shopping center that strike area is strike this

[2:17:25] fire lane. People still walk, you know, so it's just pain. It could be there, it doesn't

[2:17:31] have to be there. I'll leave that to the board in your professionals.

[2:17:37] And on that we are

[2:17:43] I believe it is done, as part of North Branch Walk, the county had that applicant stripe, but dedicated left turn lane on Reddington Road.

[2:17:54] I haven't seen it, but I met with that applicant last week and he said, yeah, we did that work.

[2:17:58] And if they haven't, it's supposed to be there, so that there is a lane, whether traffic continues west on my store comes in the back, but that has, it's part of North Branch Walk.

[2:18:10] Beyond that, we're leaving the access points as is.

[2:18:14] They have clear, unobstructed sight lines,

[2:18:17] and they've worked very well for the existing building.

[2:18:20] So we are keeping those rather than channeling traffic at only one location.

[2:18:26] And that's, I think all I have in the way direct at this point.

[2:18:29] Is there any consideration along the long sections of the building

[2:18:36] for a speed bump or something to keep traffic speeds at a reasonable amount?

[2:18:45] We didn't think of that, but certainly I'm hearing it, I don't see any reason why not.

[2:18:52] Fire sometimes gets a little anxious about speedhumps and their ability to respond, but

[2:18:59] I think it's prudent with the potential for some limited amount of children in the facility.

[2:19:06] We're more than happy to work with your board professionals any type of way finding signage,

[2:19:12] safety signage, speed bumps, whatever they recommend, we're happy to install it.

[2:19:22] Chair, it's my opinion that if you want to variance the conferred from an industrial use

[2:19:28] to a recreational use, you need to present a comprehensive parking solution for the entire

[2:19:35] space being for your new use, not we'll do this now, then we'll come back when we have

[2:19:43] some more. The variance is converting the use, the parking has to come to the whole,

[2:19:50] That's my opinion. Number two,

[2:19:57] the facility down the road.

[2:20:00] I drive by it all the time. I think it's great. However, there is insufficient parking at that facility. Certain days of the year, times of the day. They park all over the yard on the grass, up and down the street. So that's an example where the best calculations work most of the time. They don't work all the time. So I really think that you should air use the property that you have and put in lots of parking because there's no place in the front.

[2:20:30] for them to pull on the grass. And we don't want them wind up on writing thin

[2:20:34] row. And then the third point I just want to make is in your traffic study, Mr. Dean,

[2:20:44] what I noticed yesterday when I was driving around is that the North Walk development is now using

[2:20:54] uh, mice to the lane to get it in and out of the back of that, right? There's a lot of traffic coming in

[2:21:00] that I didn't realize that was being used to like, throw down there. That's not totally built out.

[2:21:06] So, I don't think that you're, I don't think you took into consideration the increased traffic of that development using mice

[2:21:15] and I'm concerned about the people trying to come out that back and turn left on

[2:21:22] Ridington Road. It's going to be that intersection is going to be a problem during

[2:21:26] high traffic things. I know that's made be beyond your scope as the weather that

[2:21:31] you said they're putting in a left lane, but I see a bigger problem with

[2:21:36] myster and Ridington. I was the traffic engineer for North Branch Walk, so we

[2:21:40] spent a lot of time with the planning board, part of North Branch Walk, and we have been

[2:21:49] thus far, if at a few setbacks, but now we're inching forward, that community is supposed to be

[2:21:56] served by a new traffic light, or I'll say a reconfiguration of the traffic light, at East and

[2:22:03] Turnpike in front of QuickCheck. Right now, it isn't built. It's only a right and right out driveway.

[2:22:08] So anyone that lives in the community doesn't have the ability to go straight across yet, say, for example, to go to Route 78.

[2:22:15] What they're doing instead is going out the back on myster, turning left on Reddington, and then going to 22 up past the PNC Bank in a daycare center and what have

[2:22:26] because the little short jug handle coming out of North Branch Walk isn't as good because it backs up.

[2:22:33] So people know right now they know to use myster as that shortcut.

[2:22:39] We have successfully resolved their issues with DOT and we are now refining the traffic signal design and those plans and my office is part of that.

[2:22:51] So my expectation is what you're seeing in the backdoor use of myster is temporary until we get that full light installed.

[2:23:00] But secondly, I did include North Branch's walk, their traffic in our study, because I had

[2:23:08] all those projections when I did those for the planet.

[2:23:10] You projected the traffic when it's fully built.

[2:23:13] Correct.

[2:23:14] We took that at full build out.

[2:23:15] I believe they have one building left to CO.

[2:23:18] They're very close to being completed.

[2:23:21] So I know they're close, but our accounts, when we did them, we did them in May of this year.

[2:23:28] So only a few months ago, I'll have to defer to Doug.

[2:23:33] I think they were two buildings left, I'm sorry.

[2:23:36] So they're 80% or 85% built out when we did our study.

[2:23:41] I like to fact that it's a temporary issue.

[2:23:44] And that right in right out was, I'll say,

[2:23:49] offered to the planning board as an interim solution

[2:23:52] because we know the DOT process is five, six years.

[2:23:57] and that's how long we've been at it trying to get that light approved.

[2:24:00] So thank you for your comments, but we tried our best to

[2:24:04] crystal ball that exact issue.

[2:24:07] Would I be able to follow up with a question, Mr. Fox.

[2:24:12] Mr. Dean, maybe you could put your planning hat on for a second.

[2:24:17] But did you evaluate or consider or can you consider

[2:24:22] if this property were utilized as manufacturing

[2:24:26] wearing warehousing, because I believe, and perhaps you would know better than me, that it

[2:24:32] was used in that fashion previously.

[2:24:36] I'm well aware that overall traffic would be less, no disguising that.

[2:24:44] The quality or characteristic of that traffic would be different, and having that enough,

[2:24:49] I'll say not well received warehouse applications over the past five years.

[2:24:55] like manufacturing warehouse all comes with concerns about trucks and now.

[2:25:00] Incompatible with a suburban residential community.

[2:25:06] So you're trading off a little less traffic, but a lot more truck traffic.

[2:25:12] So that balance between converting from industrial use to recreational eliminates that heavy truck activity, that is the one benefit.

[2:25:22] MSG and the reason why I actually put your planning head on for a moment, so I assuming that it did have some sort of pre-existing non-conforming use protection with respect to warehousing that's eliminated by virtue of changing the use right that is correct

[2:25:37] So any grandfather protections or are

[2:25:40] extinguished

[2:25:41] yes

[2:25:42] I do want to cover one thing and I know my math is wrong because

[2:25:46] Because Council and I discussed that the plans that were submitted that showed the two industrial

[2:25:56] units to remain, that meant the recreational component comprised 68 percent of the overall

[2:26:03] building.

[2:26:04] I don't know what that number is with unit B now being used.

[2:26:08] It's approximately 8,500, so 85 percent.

[2:26:13] I just, here's, here's what I'm going with it.

[2:26:17] It's about 80%, 80%.

[2:26:19] So if I go back to having 117 parking spaces,

[2:26:24] including the participants for gymnastics and cheer

[2:26:30] as needing a car and driving,

[2:26:33] if you recall, I said that number was 117.

[2:26:37] If we're at 80% occupied at full occupancy,

[2:26:41] we would need 146 spaces for a continued recreational use.

[2:26:48] With the proposal you heard tonight, we're at roughly 170.

[2:26:53] So we have enough parking at 100% recreational use for this building.

[2:27:00] I just didn't go through that math because this has been a little fluid.

[2:27:05] But I hope that gives you, yep, that is with the rear parking lot.

[2:27:10] Correct.

[2:27:14] I know

[2:27:19] what point is.

[2:27:20] I need a parking plan that's probably that's not possible.

[2:27:24] Not that's fair.

[2:27:25] That's part of the application process.

[2:27:28] I'd like to comment on the parking to Mr. Fox's point.

[2:27:33] We're in a bit of a situation here because the town has no ordinance to park these things.

[2:27:39] We have no standard to go on.

[2:27:41] We have no ITE standard.

[2:27:43] I checked IT.

[2:27:43] there's nothing relevant in ITE for this use so we have nothing to go on.

[2:27:48] We need to go on experience across the street to 78,000 square foot building

[2:27:56] about the same amount of total square footage this 83,000 here.

[2:28:01] They have 192 striped parking spaces on that property and they have an overflow

[2:28:06] a break in the gate where you can break into the next building for additional parking

[2:28:11] signage pointing there for those few days. I'm not concerned about the day-to-day operation

[2:28:16] of the site, but I am concerned with those winter Saturdays when you load the place up.

[2:28:22] It happens, you see it. So they absolutely need all this parking. They need the 170 spaces

[2:28:29] from day one, in my opinion, for those Saturdays. I've looked at one other site I surveyed

[2:28:36] winter Saturday, 172 parked cars. So that's the number you're at. If you don't want to

[2:28:47] be micromanaging how the operator schedules this building and we don't want to be doing that.

[2:28:57] My only response to that is they're both recreational. They're very different in terms of

[2:29:03] their density and what they can fit in that building in terms of how much space a

[2:29:08] at tunnel occupies in a pickleball court and soccer field,

[2:29:13] contrasted with branch for exports arena.

[2:29:16] So I fully understand what Jay is saying,

[2:29:20] and I can't disagree.

[2:29:21] I think that's why you heard from the tenants

[2:29:26] with actual numbers as to their use,

[2:29:31] their ability to fit bodies on that.

[2:29:34] I was the draft engineer for branch for exports arena.

[2:29:38] We didn't have the level of detail as to what would go in that building at the time.

[2:29:45] So that's why things like with the soccer pitch, even under a smaller size,

[2:29:52] the most you could have playing is 10.

[2:29:55] Now that is a lot of footprint with fewer bodies.

[2:30:00] The laser tag and some video arcades and things where you can have a lot of kids or a lot of people in areas of six square feet.

[2:30:10] That's very different than a soccer pitch.

[2:30:13] So I think we do need to take into consideration the distinction of those facilities and their footprints.

[2:30:19] But I understand that the absolute concern in terms of we don't want to overburden the site on day one.

[2:30:25] Is there any consideration given to having a complementary recreational use close to branch

[2:30:34] for exports complexes? Is that having a traffic standpoint or a parking standpoint?

[2:30:41] That's a tricky one. You know, I look at what's going on in the community, particular

[2:30:45] between Summit Green and North Branch Walk where you have roughly just under a thousand

[2:30:51] new dwelling units coming in as part of your affordable housing obligations and

[2:30:56] commensurate with that, you need facilities for all these new people, whether it's

[2:31:00] recreational, whether it's educational, whether it's retail opportunities in the

[2:31:04] like.

[2:31:05] So here we have the ability to repurpose and antiquate a building and I know I'm

[2:31:11] stepping into planning testimony, so I'll curtail that a little bit, but where you

[2:31:15] have all of that development literally right behind the site and also further

[2:31:21] down on Reddington Road and I forget the names of where all that higher density is, but

[2:31:26] I think Choctaw is one of them and down as you get near the Reddington border.

[2:31:31] You have a lot of people right in this area of the township that would have great access to

[2:31:36] this.

[2:31:37] Might there be new opportunities with pickleball, soccer, and cricket?

[2:31:42] They're largely adult, whereas BSA is, I think, more align towards children.

[2:31:48] So we're serving almost two disparate segments of the population with these different facilities

[2:31:55] and certainly a location that's underserved for adult recreation.

[2:32:02] And so we're capitalizing on the population that's literally already in the backyard so

[2:32:07] to speak.

[2:32:08] One follow-up question.

[2:32:09] Would you have the same testimony same opinion if this was like an ally fitness, YMCA

[2:32:15] I can say, for example, I was trapped consultant for HealthQuest in Flamington and a number of

[2:32:22] YMCA throughout the state. They need 300, 400 parking spaces because they have high density

[2:32:31] fitness classes, treadmills, ellipticals, and the like weight machines. We have childcare, drop off.

[2:32:37] We have swimming pools and fitness and a variety of uses in those types of facilities that

[2:32:43] have high densities per area, per book given building area.

[2:32:48] So this building and this parking is not suited

[2:32:51] for that type of recreational or fitness element,

[2:32:56] but paddle ball, pickle ball, tennis, indoor tennis,

[2:32:59] cricket, things that, again, big footprint, low density,

[2:33:04] that's what allows this to work efficiently

[2:33:06] in this space as I see it.

[2:33:09] So we've tried to be thorough and anticipate, you know,

[2:33:12] all of this head count, and in my opinion, I believe we're there.

[2:33:18] If there's something Mr. Troutman, and again, I respect Jay's opinion that we need to

[2:33:24] polish up. I'm certainly happy to do that. I'm just not sure where to go at this point.

[2:33:31] If I may real quick, I want to interrupt Jay's flow, but is there a term like large scale,

[2:33:40] or fitness center or something that would define the type of use that would be carved out from the indoor recreation use to ensure that the use that may be permitted by this board is

[2:33:57] for the types of indoor recreation use that are other than those higher density uses and higher density parking uses.

[2:34:10] I think the planner, I don't know.

[2:34:13] Under the fitness umbrella, I would say health club use is where we start to need a lot of

[2:34:24] parking on upon a per square.

[2:34:26] So among other things, because to the extent the board may want to further define what an indoor

[2:34:32] recreation use is and is not at a minimum, I take it the applicant would stipulate at a minimum.

[2:34:38] the applicant would stipulate to the indoor recreation uses to

[2:34:44] exclude a health club use.

[2:34:48] I understand what you're asking.

[2:34:50] I don't think I'm the right person to answer the question.

[2:34:53] That's why I'm asking.

[2:34:54] I'm saying it loud.

[2:34:56] There is.

[2:35:00] All right. Well, that's, I'm saying, exclude the high densities, include only the loads. I don't know if we could go through the laundry list, the bid or recreation that our low density uses. It might be easier to clarify what is explicitly excluded.

[2:35:20] But, I'm not sure because the S.A.A. is a big facility. It's not a club. It's a club. It's got a lot of cars.

[2:35:29] That's why I said out of minimum.

[2:35:32] That's why I said out of minimum. Right, that's why I said out of minimum.

[2:35:38] I suspect the board will want to exclude health club type use.

[2:35:45] That could be considered into a recreation use.

[2:35:48] But that's out of minimum. You may wish to exclude other. I would archaive and laser tug

[2:36:01] We can exclude group training.

[2:36:13] Yeah, we should be more specific. So I mean like large large classes

[2:36:38] the rear space is also, so it's really like for both something as no, it's a part of it all,

[2:36:44] because it might be the entrance to the ground.

[2:36:46] We can't see the great thing about it.

[2:36:48] Pardon?

[2:36:48] Did you agree to that?

[2:36:50] Yeah, absolutely.

[2:36:51] You can be any additional users from the small space.

[2:36:54] Well, I've seen that.

[2:36:55] We're going in that direction, but what I'd like to have is the flexibility that you have

[2:36:59] down the road.

[2:37:00] But today's purpose is, if one is the only, this can't change.

[2:37:06] There's no down the road.

[2:37:07] You know, the devarious relief would be

[2:37:10] in perpetuity.

[2:37:12] I mean, we'd have to like come back and modify it or amend it.

[2:37:17] I mean, which I'm not suggesting we want to do, um, you know,

[2:37:21] you, it's almost like we don't have a demonstrated track record to

[2:37:42] right.

[2:37:52] I think the balance of space, but I think in stipulations, I'm assuming, are going to apply

[2:37:58] to the 80 percent that you're proposing to occupy currently in this bifurcated situation

[2:38:10] where the typical situation on a bifurcated deezed variance with site plan or proof was

[2:38:14] Board knows as you come in for the use rights and then you come in for the site plan approval here

[2:38:20] It seems to me as if it's we're coming in for the use and both variants

[2:38:25] And design exceptions and part of

[2:38:29] Maybe 80% of the site plan approval which

[2:38:34] Is not per se prohibited

[2:38:37] In other words you have that dispersion

[2:38:41] That's something different

[2:38:42] I was going I was things I learned in life can means can doesn't necessarily mean

[2:38:50] should.

[2:38:51] What the Mr. Wonder what I think you're describing and what I was going to suggest is that

[2:38:57] you know the if a use variance for granted for the property it can be conditioned to the

[2:39:03] effect of unit A cannot be utilized for anything unless the applicant returns unit unit

[2:39:10] I'm not sure what you're making, I'd have to go look at the chart, but the units that have been identified as not having users so that the board may or may not feel uncomfortable granting a blanket use experience, you are supposed to condition the D1 use variance in a manner that ensures that the site can accommodate the use.

[2:39:34] And at this point, while Mr. Fox perhaps isn't the best application you've ever seen here,

[2:39:44] in terms of the two, the three tenants we heard from and the parking that we do have, the testimony that we have provided.

[2:39:52] I think from a safety standpoint and hopefully our planar will testify to this, a site suitability standpoint, at least for the known.

[2:40:00] Can accommodate it? And there are conditions that can be put on place on an approval where the unknowns, it's not unfettered authority to do whatever we want, we have to return.

[2:40:14] unique.

[2:40:21] If I may, I think, shouldn't we be also defining the known units in some quantity

[2:40:27] of, say, in 10 years, a different tent comes into the soccer arena and decides to modify

[2:40:33] this space with a higher intensity use. We need to also define that or somehow, say, it's

[2:40:43] only for this specific tenant, I would respond by saying that should this be, well, what

[2:40:52] I have, however the board acts on this application, Mr. Warner will prepare a very detailed

[2:40:56] resolution that details the representations that were made so that, whoever you're zoning

[2:41:03] officer is, whether, you know, 10 years down the road, 20 years down the road, for entrepreneurs

[2:41:10] keeps its files better than any municipality, but in all honesty, zoning officer can review

[2:41:17] the board's resolution when they're reviewing a zoning permit application and they can say

[2:41:22] this use looks like based upon the business plan that I received, it looks like it would be aligned

[2:41:28] with the types of tenants that you heard this evening or alternatively if you have somebody that

[2:41:35] That's it, let's say they have the same fields and they're like, we want to have 150 kids

[2:41:40] scram them in there for birthday parties, then that obviously wouldn't work.

[2:41:45] So I think that you have an enforcement and a vetting process through your ordinary zoning

[2:41:50] officer and the ordinary zoning permit process, and that's how it would typically work just

[2:41:57] in a shopping center, you know, it's akin to that, where you have tenant turnover and

[2:42:05] there's a vetting process to make sure that the mere change in tenancy isn't necessarily

[2:42:12] triggering a board return unless it's only officer determines, yes it does.

[2:42:19] There are things that I've seen and had occasion to work on like golf caves, if anyone

[2:42:25] has been to that use. Again, big footprint, screens, video, but it simulates playing at a

[2:42:33] gust of, and it takes up a lot of space, but it doesn't put the bodies. By contrast, as Mr.

[2:42:40] Warner had asked, something like CrossFit would be more likely to be problematic. Now, I will

[2:42:47] say, 10 years ago, I had no idea that anybody here would pick a ball as it's totally new. So,

[2:42:53] So it's hard to guess, but if we roll the clock back 40 years to the 80s,

[2:42:58] Racketball was the big thing, I'm hard press to find a Rackball court anymore, or

[2:43:04] squash.

[2:43:04] You know, fitness, it evolved.

[2:43:08] So I understand what Mr. Warner was driving at, and I think perhaps Mr. Troutman and

[2:43:13] I can consult and come up with a list of things that would not work in the space to give

[2:43:19] zoning officer, clarity, but things that are new and innovative, rock climbing is another

[2:43:27] sort of recreational use that's become popular, I don't know the work in the building with

[2:43:32] the ceiling heights, but those are the kinds of things that are a little hard to crystal ball

[2:43:37] in this process, but I think they fit into the category of we're okay with that, we just don't want

[2:43:50] So, if the board is amenable to that, I think we can get creative to give you everyone

[2:43:56] involved a level of comfort of what types of things that would be acceptable in the things

[2:44:01] that aren't.

[2:44:11] So, we can also, with the applicant, just advising you of is that the, on prayer, the cricket

[2:44:19] tenant is willing to take all of unit G so that the board has a known tenant for unit

[2:44:27] And they were going to use it as an entrance.

[2:44:34] So, I don't know, pick a ball court or anything like that.

[2:44:38] So that'll take.

[2:44:41] So they have GD and E.

[2:44:45] That's correct.

[2:44:46] The plan would have to be updated to reflect that.

[2:44:53] So what do we present?

[2:44:55] I don't see if we, I think we need the professionals to align.

[2:45:00] The applicant came back with kind of what the finalized plan is that they're proposing for us to approve.

[2:45:07] Because I think there's been, we're north of 80 percent now. Aren't we occupancy?

[2:45:13] We are. Yes. The find, quorum, quorum, or we know who the occupants are. Right.

[2:45:18] Right. I don't know how big G is, but we're probably getting an 85 to 90 percent, or 87 percent range, I'm guessing.

[2:45:28] So it's only, it's only 2,300 square feet.

[2:45:31] So it's above 80, now, G is only 2,300 square feet.

[2:45:37] Approximately.

[2:45:39] So you're left with A, and half, one of the F's.

[2:45:45] F, what?

[2:45:46] That's sort of guessing, but okay, because I do know how to split F, but okay.

[2:45:50] F, too.

[2:45:51] So you left the A and F, too, and an accessory,

[2:45:54] eight hundred square feet of our call correctly,

[2:45:56] then an outbuilding for life is better.

[2:46:00] So, again, I think unit H, we had testimony earlier

[2:46:03] that it would be a necessary storage feature for all the tenants.

[2:46:08] So, not being utilized for any principal use.

[2:46:10] Not being utilized by participants.

[2:46:13] F2, we have included it.

[2:46:16] It's a basement level, so I can't imagine that it would be a traffic.

[2:46:21] I'm sorry, you see in the rear on the architecturals on sheet A0.2.

[2:46:31] I don't mean to confuse you, and I'm just saying that there's an F2 basement level

[2:46:36] that's included in the overall square footage that can't possibly drive traffic

[2:46:40] for the site.

[2:46:41] I think of this repeat, let's see, the tenets today not totally relevant to the variance being sought.

[2:46:52] It was a certain change to the recreation of these tenets.

[2:46:57] We will change over time.

[2:46:58] The time to make sure that the site stays suitable for what I call recreation.

[2:47:14] to expand on that to leave as little room for interpretation that would fall on to these

[2:47:20] zoning officer shoulders versus saying well is this similar enough to the use that was

[2:47:25] previously there if we can make an exhaustive list of what type of recreation is allowed

[2:47:31] or being proposed here, and anything not on that list is then needs to come back for a variance

[2:47:37] if it should be proposed would be my thinking, but I'm leaving it to our professionals to

[2:47:42] a prime.

[2:47:45] If I may the characterization or the definition of what is and is not included within the

[2:47:53] indoor recreation use that presumably would be approved under this scenario, which is otherwise

[2:48:00] and on permitted use. That is the point where we just say that we have to be

[2:48:09] somewhat careful

[2:48:10] about saying what about when there's a change in different occupants down the road. That's

[2:48:16] always the case. And we don't zone by occupant. We do zone by use. Hence, again, the definition

[2:48:28] of what is and is not going to be permitted is important. But it can't focus too much on who

[2:48:38] may be coming with what down the road. Is it possible to potentially tag that with the parking

[2:48:46] requirement? So now we know X number of parking spaces per square foot. That's not going to

[2:48:54] So this is 80,000, whatever it is, whatever it is, whatever it is, the size of the building, here's the number of parking spots, that's all that's allowed on the property.

[2:49:04] And so if a use comes in, you have to show zoning officer that the parking spaces will not increase beyond what's already permitted.

[2:49:12] I think that's acceptable, something either like that or some way to, you know, control the occupant load of the overall site or each unit in the site.

[2:49:24] to say, you know, all of a sudden it's not, okay, yes, there's 150 people in this, you know,

[2:49:31] unit B. If that's a concern of, you know, parking, but yeah, time to parking also sounds reasonable.

[2:49:38] I've seen situations, I think, exactly what Andrew is describing, where somebody's submitting a zoning

[2:49:46] permit has to demonstrate that they're not that the use is permitted, but that the use aligns

[2:49:52] the parking requirement that's or the provision of parking spaces on the property. So I think

[2:50:00] I could possibly be done, where we would have to demonstrate either through the submission of a, you know, like a garret, Mr. Dean preparing a letter that demonstrates that this use based upon these features would be able to utilize X number of parking spaces, which is provided on the site.

[2:50:17] I've seen that done before, because going back to Mr. Fox's point, you could have two soccer companies utilize the facility entirely differently.

[2:50:27] So, I think that the business plan element, it's not even necessarily adopting to new sports or unknowns.

[2:50:34] It's just that you had testimony this evening about how this particular user is going to utilize their soccer operations.

[2:50:41] So, having some kind of enforcement mechanism or check-in balance system in place that isn't too onerous on the zoning officer, I think that's a good idea.

[2:50:52] That being said, I have no idea how that works with different units on the site and they're

[2:50:59] allocated like all of a sudden are we allocating, hey unit B gets 20 parking spots, unit

[2:51:04] C gets 10 because obviously that comes into consideration if a new unit turns over and now they

[2:51:12] are saying I need 35 parking spaces and they don't exist.

[2:51:16] And the board could require that being included in leases with tenants as a condition of approval.

[2:51:22] That's quite common as well, especially when you're dealing with applications where you have a shell and multiple tenant spaces.

[2:51:38] And assuming you add those additional spots, you have 170, so it seems like that could still be a metric that we work with.

[2:51:46] If I may though, maybe to throw a wrench, but the additional parking in the rear and in

[2:51:55] particular for our engineer and planner,

[2:52:01] the additional parking spaces in the rear, which

[2:52:03] was just presented to us, is that give rise to any zoning, landing, and or engineering

[2:52:17] considerations that the board needs to be aware of.

[2:52:22] Setbacks?

[2:52:23] Set a rear?

[2:52:24] Possibly.

[2:52:25] I don't know.

[2:52:27] So to that point.

[2:52:28] But I don't know that we've vetted that fully because.

[2:52:32] Well, that's what I was saying.

[2:52:33] I think we need to come back with the reorganized plan so that we can look at what we're actually

[2:52:38] approving and that there are professionals about a chance to fully evaluate it.

[2:52:42] Because we're not in a position to vote on tonight.

[2:52:45] I think there needs to be a reasonable meeting of the minds here of, all right, well, what is maximum

[2:52:52] anticipated use, what's a worst case scenario of parking?

[2:52:55] I think I heard some commentary tonight of, oh, well, you know, they're just going to be dropping people off.

[2:53:00] Yeah, what if you're picking up one of your kids at, you know, one of these facilities in your 20 minutes early?

[2:53:06] You're not just going to write in a fire lane.

[2:53:08] Hopefully you'd pull into a spot, sit there, wait.

[2:53:10] So, and if you're done with pickleball or you're going to be talking outside to your friend

[2:53:16] for 15 minutes or 20 minutes outside the back of your cars, that has to be taken in the

[2:53:22] consideration, but at the same time, yes, you're likely not going to have equal number of cars

[2:53:28] for the maximum participants and employees in each unit. So, somehow there's got to be a happy

[2:53:36] medium of, you know, what is that all look like?

[2:53:41] And just a parking ratio to throw out for the applicant.

[2:53:45] If we were to construct the bank's parking,

[2:53:49] you're up in the high 160s.

[2:53:53] You have 83,000 total square feet.

[2:53:56] So if you were to allocate two spaces per 1,000 square feet

[2:54:00] to each tenant, that's 166 total spaces, and it also kind of lines up with the operations.

[2:54:07] Test the money we had for each individual tenant.

[2:54:10] If you look at the soccer space, it's 20 plus 1,000 square feet.

[2:54:15] They need 40 sum spaces, and so forth.

[2:54:18] So that seems to be a good rate and allocation that we're going to go that direction.

[2:54:24] And if I understand correctly,

[2:54:28] perhaps the board would be considering a combination of square footage and the defined, well-defined, permitted use,

[2:54:43] which would also define what is excluded from that particular use.

[2:54:49] So that there's a comfort level at the square footage correlation means something, so it's not going to be laser-ticking.

[2:55:02] First of all, it was, it's based around the hard day of the trip. I don't care what they do right now.

[2:55:11] That it is the site, the economy, the parking of the trip.

[2:55:16] I don't really care about including our ex-food in particular, because everybody's point, we don't know what's been actually popular tomorrow.

[2:55:24] It's heard about the site handling of the truly five times in a time.

[2:55:30] Right.

[2:55:30] I think that was my point though, was that, well, if the parking is, if two spaces per

[2:55:39] thousand square feet in the indoor recreation use ends up including lifetime fitness centers with

[2:55:48] a laser tag component, the board may have a problem.

[2:55:52] So I think it's the combination of the low-density, low-intensity, low-farking used by

[2:56:03] definition along with the two spaces per thousand, but I don't vote, I just, we should

[2:56:08] leave it to you guys.

[2:56:15] I think that combination, but out of the four board professionals I would advise I am the last of the four.

[2:56:24] So listen to on this, but the other three may tell you that the combination may be most prudent.

[2:56:34] So I think we need a motion to carry this to another meeting date,

[2:56:38] to with the revised plans on the review of our professionals?

[2:56:58] I guess it's good, I'm down.

[2:57:00] How much time and what do you need to do if it's a piece of that?

[2:57:09] I mean, I think there's a lot of things going on.

[2:57:12] I'll just get through a mic, Doug.

[2:57:19] I'll take a two more on your record.

[2:57:21] What do you want to go through, or just go through?

[2:57:24] From what I understand in the board's direction is that you really want to see the full package

[2:57:28] as far as the parking. However, I don't know if it was fully discussed on, are we still

[2:57:35] bifurcating this application as it relates to site plan? So, if we're talking, I don't

[2:57:41] think you go the full site plan at this point. Yes, I don't think it makes sense to bifurcate

[2:57:45] the application because part of that was surprising the board this evening with there being

[2:57:50] no industrial component. So, I don't think that's a necessary. So, I think we can come back

[2:57:57] So, I guess it comes down to, you know, formulating a plan to propose uses.

[2:58:04] And the only thing that I won't necessarily be able to come back with to the board

[2:58:08] is we might be standing in front of the board in unit A.

[2:58:11] There might not be a tenant identified, which should be okay in the sense that the whole discussion this evening

[2:58:18] is about the unknowns of future tenants.

[2:58:22] So, that in the sense would be almost like a test run of it,

[2:58:25] but in terms of of the site improvements we spoke about the bank parking so that the board's

[2:58:31] professionals and the boards have the board has adequate time to review it. The ADA

[2:58:35] Dressed the money that we spoke to some of the landscaping and buffering. All of those things

[2:58:40] would be things we'd want to address and my next question would be one is the board's next hearing date.

[2:58:47] Well, I think we need to understand what you mean by being addressed is that as a condition of

[2:58:54] approval or a submitted plan I at the board would see I think that the the

[2:59:00] the landscaping components I think things like that could be more of a condition

[2:59:04] of approval and please correct me if I'm mistaken but safety items, ADA, accessibility,

[2:59:11] the bank parking, well there's that my mind was really as I heard all the testimony

[2:59:18] tonight. We didn't even get into facade signs for each space allocation.

[2:59:24] So there's all those requirements, is there going to be a last man in that doesn't get a sign or is there going to be a plan?

[2:59:33] The ADA issues is going to possibly create grading of parking lots, issues I don't know.

[2:59:39] So there's some details that I think you need to fully develop the site plan to address what you heard tonight.

[2:59:45] We submit that and then go through overview and then schedule the hearing and as if you're never going to make October 6th.

[3:00:00] Craig is shaking his head frantically. The next meeting is that we have available is December

[3:00:14] 1st, which

[3:00:17] would mean plans to mission 30 days prior.

[3:00:23] That gives you a month and a half to prepare the plans.

[3:00:27] We do that.

[3:00:30] Okay.

[3:00:30] Suppose that the 30-day requirement, that's, is that a board?

[3:00:34] It's a framework rule.

[3:00:37] 30 days or 21 days?

[3:00:41] 21?

[3:00:45] And is that, I don't know if the four tools are on mine.

[3:00:48] Is that just 21 regular calendar days?

[3:00:51] Any follow-up hearing is, yes, calendar days.

[3:00:54] And this, I assume, would include any variances end or design waivers required by any change,

[3:01:09] including the bank parking, which is the proposal, to get to the 170 or whatever the number is.

[3:01:16] I assume you're building the parking that was back.

[3:01:20] You're going to get a full cycline.

[3:01:21] It wouldn't be banked parking, it would be constructed parking.

[3:01:27] But we build it up.

[3:01:29] We'll be banked any more.

[3:01:30] I don't think we can.

[3:01:32] Just keep working.

[3:01:33] It wouldn't be banked.

[3:01:35] Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

[3:01:37] I don't want to complicate it any more than this.

[3:01:40] The deviations resulting from the additional parking in the rear.

[3:01:45] Yes, of course.

[3:01:47] I'm sure there's lots of new design waivers.

[3:01:51] And the hands was there.

[3:01:57] I would offer that we could meet with you before you get started on the revised plans.

[3:02:01] to make sure we're all focused on what the target is?

[3:02:09] And up, of course, extension of time to act to the extent necessary to get us

[3:02:13] beyond December one, maybe end of December just for current purposes.

[3:02:19] Thank you.

[3:02:23] Okay.

[3:02:24] So we're making emotional carries the December 1st hearing.

[3:02:30] Without further notice.

[3:02:43] So, yes, Mr. Chairman, I believe we're carrying this matter without further notice to December 1 at 730 PM at the same location with a time to act graciously extended to us through the end of the month of December, which I guess is technically through the end of 2026.

[3:03:01] Just one closing remark, first I just want to thank the Board and the Board of Professionals for their flexibility this evening, trying to work with us, so that's very much appreciated.

[3:03:11] As far as the carried out, I'm sure I'm going to speak with my client this evening.

[3:03:15] I don't know if the Board does special meetings and that would require us to have met with the Board's professionals, submitted in advance of the 21 days,

[3:03:24] but I just wanted to put out there that I would imagine speaking with

[3:03:28] the tenants and the applicant that that would be something we would look

[3:03:31] to pursue and I'm just putting that out there so the boards at least aware

[3:03:37] of that possibility that we would look to do that.

[3:03:40] If, in fact, a special meeting date arose before December 1,

[3:03:45] we would be noticed exactly.

[3:03:47] Yes, sir.

[3:03:51] That is all.

[3:03:53] Thank you.

[3:03:54] So,

[3:03:57] motion to carry the application case number of 2026-006 AUV, PFSP for Commerce Park Investors, to December 1st without further notice.

[3:04:10] I'll make the motion.

[3:04:11] Second.

[3:04:12] All in favour?

[3:04:13] Aye.

[3:04:16] Thank you.

[3:04:23] All right.

[3:04:23] We have the minutes from July 7th regular meeting to approve.

[3:04:28] I have a motion to approve the meeting minutes as provided,

[3:04:42] second.

[3:04:53] I'll make a second then.

[3:04:54] All right, thank you, Michael.

[3:05:00] Mr Chairman, it could be all in favor with the Chair with the Board Secretary recognizing that we have one board member who was absent that evening who was here tonight, so that board member would be reflected with an abstention.

[3:05:16] Correct.

[3:05:18] All in favor.

[3:05:19] Aye.

[3:05:20] Aye.

[3:05:20] We have no resolutions to approve.

[3:05:26] We do have approval of claims.

[3:05:29] We have 13 claims.

[3:05:31] So, of $9,000, $5,50.

[3:05:35] Any questions on those claims?

[3:05:39] Or do we have a motion to approve?

[3:05:42] Motion to approve.

[3:05:44] Second.

[3:05:45] Second.

[3:05:52] All in favor?

[3:05:53] Aye.

[3:05:55] Aye.

[3:05:55] open to the public. Seeing any members of the public, the motion closed to the public.

[3:06:02] I'll make the motion.

[3:06:05] All right.

[3:06:06] All right.

[3:06:07] Okay, open our professionals.

[3:06:09] All right.

[3:06:11] It's okay.

[3:06:13] I will attempt to catch you up on our busy schedule for the fall.

[3:06:17] I just want to grab a pen and paper.

[3:06:21] All right.

[3:06:22] So we have on September 16th, we have a resident, which is a quick overhead porch

[3:06:32] encroaching in the front yard, along with Branchburg Medical Room, and that is a recovery

[3:06:40] center, a living recovery center right down here on 202.

[3:06:45] And then on 1922, certain members responded, they're confirming their attendance for a special

[3:06:52] meeting that was formally planning board meeting that is for the training center.

[3:06:57] The training center is part of an industrial building on 22.

[3:07:03] It's just east of Transwestern, the big warehouse that was installed where the driving range

[3:07:09] was.

[3:07:09] They're taking part of that building and they're constructing or fitting out for proposing to fit out for a vocational plumbing HVAC type of business in part of the building.

[3:07:24] The remaining part will be industrial.

[3:07:29] On 10, 6, we have the return of Dr. Sam for the property on

[3:07:38] Cambory Road.

[3:07:40] He's due back with a submittal at 9.15.

[3:07:44] I'm not sure if you will come back with revised plans.

[3:07:47] I'm not a much certain of that case.

[3:07:49] There's also another resident on that night for a fence application, and my trace of returning

[3:07:57] with the Affordable Housing on R$ 28.

[3:08:03] Tent 21, we have, I will not be in attendance on that, but Barry, and Horn will be sitting

[3:08:10] in for me, and there's one residential case and the return to Chin Maya mission, which is that

[3:08:18] already heard them. They got started previously.

[3:08:25] The month of October is no applications,

[3:08:30] I'm sorry, November, because of the election and the league week on November 18th. If

[3:08:38] we get residential applications which there are a couple, I could schedule them when I'm

[3:08:44] not there and have Tom Leach sit in for those

[3:08:47] couple of residential if it's okay with you guys.

[3:08:50] Meaning on November 18.

[3:08:54] And then we just heard tonight that we carried these guys

[3:08:58] on December 1st.

[3:08:59] It's going to be busy and there's more lingering around,

[3:09:04] not certain how they're going to fit in.

[3:09:07] But we're getting a lot of these requests for special meetings.

[3:09:10] And I don't want to burn out the board with.

[3:09:13] Yeah, it's not like we're the planning for it, but I just, yeah, it's Ebb and Flo.

[3:09:20] Yeah, I think I make sense to the ocean. We're on for the 18th month.

[3:09:29] I'll see how we do with these, 3 on 10 6 and 2 on 10 21, which sounds like 10 pounds of potatoes and a 5 pound sack.

[3:09:41] I don't think that on the seams coming back. He told me he told me the other day it was like, I'm not coming to the board again,

[3:09:47] I'm just going to get stuck again, something, he said he's going to rebuild the

[3:09:52] positive away, we don't get a good response, it's middle of it.

[3:10:00] For us to attend.

[3:10:15] At one is a time to act, to expire. When does the time to act expire?

[3:10:22] He gave an extension, or it's okay.

[3:10:35] I

[3:10:39] just have one thing good to see everybody again, hope to see again.

[3:10:43] So.

[3:10:45] How can I do that?

[3:10:46] Well.

[3:10:51] Just for the fun ones.

[3:10:54] I'll make a motion to close to the professionals.

[3:10:57] Very good. Second.

[3:11:00] One favor.

[3:11:01] All right.

[3:11:05] Open to the board.

[3:11:08] Good.

[3:11:10] Thanks for hanging with us.

[3:11:13] Second motion with you.

[3:11:14] Motion to close to the board.

[3:11:16] motion to close.

[3:11:17] All favor.

[3:11:19] Aye.

[3:11:20] Art made a motion to adjourn the meeting.

[3:11:23] We'll have a second.

[3:11:24] Very good.

[3:11:25] All in favor.

[3:11:26] Aye.

[3:11:27] Thank you, good night.

Board of Adjustment - Regular

Agenda

Transcript