[0:14] So I'm going to skip over this because we've heard a lot of feedback that this chart is not very easy to understand but for those of you that might be looking at these slides more closely, generally what we're looking for in this chart is for the orange bar to be taller than the gray bar. This is how we know that going back to 2009, which was the time of our previous MOU with UBM. This is how we know that new beds on the campus

[0:44] have been provided faster than new students have been enrolled.

[0:49] So this is one way that we have been looking at this trend over time.

[0:54] But this is something that we put together to respond to some feedback and concerns that we were hearing about better understanding what that slide was trying to share.

[1:05] So this looks more specifically at how these future plans relate to off campus demand for housing.

[1:13] or really for beds off campus is the way that this is outlined.

[1:18] And ultimately, kind of here in the middle of the screen,

[1:21] where you see the header that says

[1:23] UBM Undergraduate Enrollment,

[1:25] that's the population of undergraduate students

[1:29] that are seeking a place to live in our community.

[1:33] UBM Undergraduate On-Campus Beds

[1:36] is the number of beds that UBM is providing on their campus,

[1:39] or within their housing system.

[1:44] And then the last column here, if we subtract

[1:47] the on-campus beds from the enrollment, is off-campus-domain.

[1:52] So these are folks that are not getting housing within UDN's system of beds

[1:57] and are seeking housing within the broader Burlington community.

[2:01] So we've really been looking at kind of how all of this relates to

[2:05] how many people are seeking beds in the greater Burlington community.

[2:09] community. You can see the line that's outlined in dark gray just as a reference point.

[2:16] This is not a kind of binding point in time in terms of the MOU that we're talking about,

[2:22] but it was a specific point in time in our most recent past MOU, where UVM with making

[2:30] commitments to house, you know, provide beds and keep up with enrollment in that last

[2:37] we use is this just helps us understand that at that time there were just under 5,000 people who

[2:43] were seeking housing in the greater Burlington community when that was signed. We can see that at

[2:49] this point in time where we are in as of fall of 2023 in this first yellow box year were above that

[2:57] level. So while UVM over the course of time between that 2009 agreement and 2019 had built a large

[3:05] number of beds on campus, they also saw some enrollment decline and then an enrollment increase

[3:11] again while they had been below the demand that they were at in the fall of 29, they're currently

[3:19] over that, so we're at just over 5,000 now in according to the fall of 2023. So the bottom part

[3:27] of this chart then helps us to start to understand what the potential impact could be of the projects

[3:32] that UBM is currently working to bring online in South Burlington as well as potential future projects

[3:40] that could be enabled by zoning changes in Burlington. And you can see that the work that they're

[3:45] doing kind of above this like dark line in the bottom half. These are the projects that are under

[3:51] development in South Burlington starts to bring us back closer to the off campus demand that we

[3:57] were experiencing in 2009, just below it. But it's really when we start to see if we can

[4:05] start to see new campus projects that are providing new beds. And if UVM continues to meet its

[4:12] goal of 3,000 first years, that's when we start to see a much more significant impact in terms of

[4:19] reducing the demand for beds off of campus or outside of the campus system.

[4:27] So I think that's all

[4:28] we have. This is what we just want to share as an overview of what is in the MOU itself

[4:33] and how we've been looking at what the community benefits are in addition to, you know,

[4:39] just having an MOU with the institution that provides transparency to the community about

[4:46] what the intent is for the next five years in terms of enrollment levels, the intent for the next

[4:53] five years in terms of what kinds of projects they're going to pursue and the intent in the next five years in terms of, you know, what the city is considering doing to help facilitate an increase in beds to address our shared housing needs.

[5:10] So I don't know if there's anything any of you want to add?

[5:17] So I think how we'll do this then is we'll get into Q&A for those of you that are here

[5:24] tonight either virtually or in the room. Sarah's going to help us just keep an eye on

[5:31] the folks that are online. So we might try to do like back and forth if we get folks who

[5:36] want to talk online.

[5:39] So I don't know if anybody here in the room wants

[5:42] to start, Richard.

[5:43] I don't know.

[5:44] This is because the context really, where is the city as far as this MOU is concerned?

[5:52] Can you present it since I am on this?

[5:54] Yeah.

[5:55] Good question.

[5:56] So the question was, where is the city in terms of the MOU timeline?

[6:01] So this MOU was presented to the council in mid-December, just before the holidays.

[6:07] We had a meeting last week with the Ward 1 and PA and we're meeting tonight to answer questions from the community about the draft among you and we were anticipating we are anticipating that the council may consider this at the end of the month at one of their meetings before the end of the month.

[6:25] So I think you know we're working right now on sharing information about this that would help inform that process.

[6:32] that

[6:36] you'd be able to follow up, or is it?

[6:38] I think it's an important time to say it next.

[6:42] The followed question was, is the MOU posted?

[6:44] Yes, it is posted.

[6:46] For those of you, I'm not sure how you got the invite

[6:48] to tonight's meeting, but it is posted.

[6:51] If you were at all on the Office of City Planning's

[6:56] website that talked about the Trinity campus zoning amendment,

[6:59] you can find it posted there.

[7:00] It's also on the council's documents

[7:03] and it's from the December 18th eating.

[7:07] I'm getting a couple of questions for my mind.

[7:09] What would you say if we could do that if we could slide?

[7:13] Okay, for sure.

[7:14] Somebody asked for us to keep this slide.

[7:16] Okay, that is easy to do.

[7:19] And I think we can start with

[7:25] a minute's second question.

[7:27] And yes, this will, this will probably be our own

[7:30] and not following this meeting next couple of days.

[7:40] So I'll just repeat the questions for those who are in the room and online.

[7:45] So for those of you who have asked Sarah starting this recording just a few minutes late,

[7:49] but we will be posting what we capture online.

[7:52] And there's also a recording of the Ward 1 NPA meeting that you can find on Channel 17 if

[7:57] you're interested as well.

[7:59] The question is about how was the last MOU allowed to last?

[8:05] Do you want to speak to that?

[8:07] Well, I wasn't in my role that I'm in now, but I was on the council and I was aware that it lapsed in 2019.

[8:18] My recollection since it was now.

[8:20] So, not quite five years ago, but over four years ago was that there was a, well, I mean,

[8:29] university, I think, felt that they had met the obligations under the previous agreement

[8:35] and the city was, there was ongoing conversation, but there was no decision to redo an agreement

[8:42] at that point.

[8:42] I don't think there was a whole lot of appetite to pursue it aggressively either way.

[8:48] And the only thing that I'll add to is just having, having not been directly engaged in the last MOU in my role, I was working for the city around the time of this expired.

[8:59] And I will say we had started some conversations about the MOU term ending right before COVID. And a lot of city employees were redeployed to different duties during COVID.

[9:10] And so we got behind on that at that time.

[9:14] Sharon, do you have something, Dad?

[9:16] I do.

[9:17] I made a shower and I was on the city council at that time,

[9:20] and I was on the board of finance also.

[9:23] I want to be really clear that I was very concerned

[9:25] about the University of Lansing.

[9:27] And the focus for the city was on working

[9:30] with the University of Lansing about University of Lansing

[9:33] and dealing with the infrastructure

[9:36] and the road improvements, et cetera.

[9:39] And the MOU was pushed aside.

[9:42] I was very concerned that it was going to last.

[9:46] I got out of the council in 2020, but I felt that this was going to happen, and I was

[9:56] very concerned about it because I felt, with this lapsing, it would be exactly where

[10:03] we are.

[10:03] the top aid in MOU that could be revised, revisited.

[10:09] And so I feel like it made everybody,

[10:12] if maybe in power, maybe in university more

[10:15] and I feel it made the state more vulnerable,

[10:18] and I'm very frustrated to that fact.

[10:21] And I know that because I ask repeatedly

[10:25] a board of finance in a chapter of minutes,

[10:28] where are we with the MOU and the mayor kept saying,

[10:32] and Google gets to that, and gets to that,

[10:35] where they've extended it another year,

[10:37] or they've extended it another year.

[10:39] But I'm very concerned about the fact

[10:42] that you don't have an algorithm.

[10:44] I think that for people with a problem,

[10:50] it's a feeling from some of us that we,

[10:54] well, I think most people want an algorithm.

[10:56] I think what the problem is is that I think that

[11:00] But what we're trying to figure out, and I still haven't seen, and a number of us still haven't seen, what the city really gets from this MOU.

[11:09] I think the university, clearly a B.T.K. activist, I mean he knows me, but I don't think the university gets zoning amendments that are continuous.

[11:25] They are not fine. They are not for five years. Those are zoning experiments that will be available to the university to utilize.

[11:34] But the city has finite internet from the university and I still don't see how the housing and sending

[11:52] housing needs on campus. We've had the unit with us. The only man makes freshman and

[11:57] sophomores seems to live on campus. Therefore, we all know that at the beginning of their

[12:05] sophomore year students start looking for housing and not before. And so I don't see how this agreement is going to

[12:14] would address that housing prices.

[12:16] And I keep looking for where we can find that information.

[12:22] And I guess because you'll be on it,

[12:24] thank you for being here.

[12:27] But can you speak to any updates?

[12:30] I mean, the university reported to us

[12:33] that you found surveys asking your student body

[12:36] if junior students wanted to have housing on campus.

[12:41] And the surveys that were less important to the board 1 and 3A were that students did not really

[12:49] desire on campus housing. They were looking for a different style of housing and more freedom of

[12:55] soft campus. But then you've done more surveys, more recent surveys, and what do you think

[13:01] the university can offer the city to say that some of those upper class students will

[13:11] I guess I obviously couldn't guarantee what they're going to do, but we do get more

[13:16] requests for on-campus housing from upper-quest students in New York to use to.

[13:22] And two things have happened, I think.

[13:25] One is that the market is obviously a bit tighter.

[13:30] It was tight to begin with.

[13:31] It's got some tighter in the city, so it's more difficult for students to find housing

[13:36] that they want.

[13:36] But I think the other piece to be perfectly honest is that more and more students are

[13:44] feeling that there is an advantage to being closer to the campus.

[13:50] That doesn't mean that all the juniors and seniors want to live on campus because they

[13:53] certainly do not.

[13:55] But we believe that there are several hundreds of students who are juniors and seniors who

[14:00] with what I would like to live on campus

[14:03] or adjacent to the campus

[14:06] in the university, functionally housed.

[14:11] That's one of the reasons that you'll see

[14:13] that nothing we're doing now

[14:16] or what we're proposing to do is a,

[14:20] you and I would call a dormitory,

[14:21] what is now called a residence hall.

[14:26] They're not rooms, single rooms with two people.

[14:29] Everything we're proposing to do is apartment housing, which is what students want.

[14:37] And so we're trying everything we can to make them attractive for upper class students.

[14:43] So can I just ask the problem, one last piece, and I'll shut up.

[14:47] And there was a statement made that someone asked you at the City Council, I just know that

[14:53] that was online, but someone asked someone from the university what the cost would be for

[15:00] For the new housing department, so housing, and I wrote down $1300, wasn't what you mentioned, that cost for

[15:09] better than the fee. Is that accurate? You want to amend that? For what we're building now, it's in that

[15:16] ballpark, it's 12 to 13. Yes. With all utilities.

[15:26] No, not at this point. I have had conversations

[15:30] would folks in an effort to try to find a way to do that in terms of getting

[15:35] included in some of these federal programs, that sort of thing, but we had not made any progress in that.

[15:41] Okay. Okay.

[15:42] Can I speak to that question?

[15:44] Okay, and then I want to recognize the person sitting next to you because she's had a hand up for a last.

[15:50] Um, right, I heard that, I heard that same answer that we can build as we can here and see that there's a comment.

[15:58] And then I reached the price point.

[16:02] I'm worried that this becomes an accurate issue, right?

[16:07] If all of the people who put in 4, $1300 per lettering

[16:11] are attracted to campus housing,

[16:13] housing close to campus, by major community sports

[16:17] are going to talk, kind of, first in college students,

[16:22] and the words in the housing that provide a better

[16:24] and then this is going to exacerbate that.

[16:26] So I have the same question.

[16:28] Can this UVM will subsidize on, you know,

[16:31] that campus housing programs for the last students

[16:35] who come from low and come back around to our first year?

[16:39] We can't direct ourselves to those housing,

[16:42] but right now we're putting 180 million dollars

[16:44] of financial aid out to our students.

[16:48] And in that way, we are reducing the total cost

[16:51] of a tennis, which includes housing and food.

[16:55] You said you can't.

[16:59] There's no financial means to go much beyond what we're already doing,

[17:05] as far as I'm saying. They're spending 180 million right now to subsidize the cost of

[17:11] attempts. So you agree that this then by all forces are lowest income students to the worst

[17:17] of all the income?

[17:20] I think that we have a wide variety of students. We are trying to address

[17:27] the needs of those that have lower incomes by providing them with more financial aid.

[17:32] Let me ask the question again if you didn't answer it. Do you agree that by setting up this

[17:36] this sort of pricing and speed that we're forcing the lowest income students,

[17:42] often that's first-generation students, so the worst of the housing providers.

[17:45] No, I don't agree.

[17:46] He said it's for clients.

[17:48] I don't agree.

[17:49] Yeah.

[17:50] So, can I?

[17:51] Yeah, okay.

[17:52] That's easy to find anything in our eyes.

[17:55] I see your clients, I work at the University for a 20-year-old years.

[17:59] And I really think this is from an early age group, you know,

[18:03] I've referenced them by a few volumes, which is about our student health services, counseling, psychology, and teaching at each of their workings.

[18:13] I think we're thinking about this in terms of where students are going online and off campus and how huge jobs are going to access right now.

[18:22] a moment of guilt. It's off the charts because we have a staff we have available to actually

[18:32] meet the needs where the workers settled in the students. I go on a mission for us on purpose

[18:38] just to see what the arms are and also what they take to the students through, what they promote,

[18:45] and I value by any danger and by the work that I do. If you want to see the side of the

[18:51] mental health athletes and working with students to actually be able to provide to them what we say to you in your life.

[18:58] Our council staff, our students, our staff rate ones, are taxed.

[19:02] We have not received cost of living raise.

[19:06] And I don't know how long.

[19:08] And yeah, we are increasingly involved in this, there's nothing in this family that

[19:13] just needs a knock on to do that, and we are tied, I'm sorry, but I was like, what

[19:19] are you managing?

[19:21] First, the second note, because we also know our teachers are moving up through this and

[19:26] our off-cancelations office is trying to help with those places.

[19:31] And every day, and you're getting more marginalized students to talk more from us, we can't give

[19:36] any more of them.

[19:37] We would be in all the literature, but how students are coming into colleges and don't get

[19:44] in the realm of I only need some reason for all.

[19:47] We want to build more housing.

[19:49] Don't get in the realm.

[19:51] And that color head is in the fair too spot right now.

[19:54] But it puts us as people who believe in a work that we do and we're not getting in for 20

[19:59] years.

[20:00] If I didn't need the students, I didn't leave the car, I didn't leave the people that I

[20:05] worked with.

[20:06] But we can't do it.

[20:07] And so, a few years ago, I had a cat on the road, and for a few years, we'll get this under control.

[20:13] We are going to attack, continue to be more than just housing.

[20:16] Because when it's counselors in a community, there's a lot of room in me.

[20:19] We're going to see if I'm supposed to deal with it.

[20:22] It's just not right.

[20:24] It's able to manage what we're going to be doing.

[20:27] So, I think we need to look at this a little more instinctive.

[20:30] And you know, it's like how we are creating a community that is going to be able to see

[20:36] thatself. Because it's about keeping the community and thriving. It's also about the people who are

[20:42] working there in our faculty. You cannot take on more students in the classroom, but they can not

[20:47] give you about how to teach in a way that they hold the rigor and the standards of the need that

[20:55] they should be for the students to do, but if they're also happy to do that. The complexities of what

[21:19] I'm going to go to Andrea Todd, who's online. Andrea, you should be able to speak.

[21:25] Awesome. Can you hear me?

[21:27] I can hear you and I might repeat your question if others in the room can't.

[21:30] Go ahead. Great. Thank you. I want to echo some of what Sharon said. In June of 2019, there was

[21:40] the Housing Summit and the University of Vermont and College Housing was I was glaringly absent

[21:46] at that summit. And I asked the city representatives over and over again why is the why is the UVM not

[21:55] part of this conversation and was told, you know, kind of repeatedly that UVM's in a planning phase,

[22:03] they can't be, you know, we can include them in this conversation and I really want to, you know,

[22:09] support and echo it. What Sharon was saying is that it's very disappointing that since this is the

[22:16] first that this is kind of starting to happen since June of 2019, so I also want to clarify that

[22:22] There was no COVID on the horizon in June 2019.

[22:26] It was an active decision by the city not to address this earlier.

[22:31] COVID certainly put a lot of wrenches in everybody's plans and systems.

[22:38] But there was no indication that the city was at all interested in dealing with this in 2019

[22:44] at the summit. I'm really concerned that the graduate students are not included

[22:52] it as part of this MOU because my understanding is that the university is actively asking

[22:59] departments to increase graduate enrollment. That's a piece of this puzzle that I feel

[23:04] like should be both graduate and undergraduate. So I'm kind of curious why the graduate

[23:10] programming is eliminated from this. There are no less demand on the housing market. There

[23:19] still there just as much of a demand as an undergraduate student. And one of the things

[23:25] that I find sort of troubling in this system, in this situation too, is all the years that

[23:33] the enrollment has been so much higher since 2009, well since 2000. Thank you very much

[23:41] for these numbers. You know, the students are kind of being switched into the existing

[23:47] campus housing, you know, the triple, like higher numbers of triples and kind of

[23:53] squeezing students into the existing undergraduate or on-campus housing. And I'm

[24:00] just concerned that there's not really a reflection of those existing

[24:04] students being factored into this expanded number of houses. I don't know if

[24:11] that makes sense but there's this sort of like a big hole of existing students

[24:16] that are not being addressed in this MOU I think Sharon mentioned that as well so that's a lot of

[24:23] information but my specific question is about requesting that the graduate students be included

[24:30] in this MOU and would like to know why not and also what the plan is for addressing the existing

[24:36] pressure on those students that are currently looking for housing also not able to you know being

[24:43] jammed in to build into dorms did folks in the room get most of Andrea okay

[24:49] her question is about you know why not graduate students in this MOU and

[24:53] what's the plan for graduate students do you want to talk first about I guess

[24:56] the first thing I would say is we we had conversations about whether it should

[25:00] be included or not at the end of the day most people seem more concerned about

[25:05] undergraduate so I thought it was in the original MOU success where we landed but

[25:09] I would say that the other piece of that is we're currently having a construction 620 beds

[25:17] in South Brilliant for for graduates. So even though it's not part of them or you,

[25:24] we are always building enough beds to house 40% of the graduate population.

[25:32] That's existing graduate population. So I'm talking about the expanded graduate and the expanded

[25:39] I guess what I'm saying is that what we're doing is by building those 600 beds in 600 students

[25:47] that can move from where they are now. They're by opening up 600 more beds for for opening

[25:53] a month for other people. At this point, if it's the great demands of graduate beds become

[26:01] greater than I think that there's something we'll ultimately have to address. But right now

[26:06] We are more aggressive by what we have in the construction room.

[26:12] I guess I'm confused to follow up with that.

[26:15] The 600 and so students graduate students that are on campus are being.

[26:20] This is like the housing for them.

[26:22] But what about the 600 and student and oncoming graduate students that the university.

[26:28] Theoretically would be bringing on that doesn't factor there.

[26:32] there now increased demand on the housing market.

[26:37] Yeah, I guess, I said before, I guess the way I look at this is right now there's a certain population of graduate students.

[26:44] They are all already in a unit somewhere.

[26:48] We're going to increase that stock by 600, so I expect that it would be a combination of some new students and some existing ones who would take that.

[26:57] but every year about 40% of that population moves out because they graduate, so it's turnover as well.

[27:07] So we're building a 600 beds, knowing that that is going to take a lot of pressure off the

[27:13] existing situation and are going to evaluate what we stand. And as we compare any growth that we have

[27:23] where they grew to man to other.

[27:27] I guess.

[27:27] I'm sorry.

[27:28] Go ahead.

[27:29] And you can you just clarify it because I'm not hearing.

[27:33] I'm not hearing any willingness to include the graduate students in the expanded number of UVM students.

[27:40] Let's just call them UVM students that need housing because they're graduates and they're undergraduates and those numbers are expanding.

[27:47] And so I I would like can you say that you are you saying yes or no that you would be willing to consider

[27:54] totalling the graduate students with the undergraduate students in that they all need

[28:00] housing in Burlington or housing at UVM.

[28:04] As I said the original proposal we

[28:08] gave to the city included graduate students

[28:11] But their pros and cons to different aspects of that and so right now

[28:16] That's not where we're at, but we, I think we indicated that our willingness to consider it because it was in the original drafts.

[28:25] That's great to hear and I guess I'd ask the city to include the graduate students in that to return to that original proposal and put the graduate students in there.

[28:37] Okay. Is there somebody else in the room that hasn't found this?

[28:42] I still want to make a second to your character with categorization of 48 hundred with

[28:50] number 1009, which is 52 hundred number 1023, I think it is, as being just under and just

[28:59] over 5,000, as I look at that, if there were 208 people who didn't need to be able to do

[29:11] a bed of campus that's 50 units, 52 bed communities with four people available, that wouldn't be available, do you know what I'm saying?

[29:23] Yeah, so that's just one perspective.

[29:28] In the annual view, the university is going to, I think, make their census available to

[29:38] the city at the end of September every year, or their ballots.

[29:45] Then the agreement says, if the university needs to provide more debt, they got a total

[29:53] it doesn't make sense, it's for me, that you've got incoming students at the...

[30:03] So, it seems like who make more sense for the agreements, say, instead of the crowd ones, the university has 10 months to say where they're going to put those feet. So, that we know when they're arriving in August, that everybody's got a spot.

[30:27] And I think that the crowd one is

[30:32] mentioned in the number two. It doesn't give a sense. Yeah, thank you.

[30:36] And I don't want to take too much time.

[30:42] In general, 75% lot average.

[30:47] What's the average within the city versus what's being

[30:50] asked?

[30:51] In terms of it really depends what part of the city you're

[30:56] in in terms of what currently exists or what's even allowed.

[31:01] We have examples like here downtown.

[31:05] there are many lots that are have full lot coverage, so 100% lot coverage and we in some parts of the city have zoning that would enable 80 to 100% lot coverage.

[31:18] We have other parts of the city where the lot coverage limits and actual lot coverage are much lower in the, you know, 20s or 30% range.

[31:28] The part of the MOU or the part of the zoning ordinance that I mentioned before that applies

[31:36] overlay zones to different parts of the campus helps us identify specific sites where

[31:41] we might be able to accommodate or enable greater lock-overgine height without applying that

[31:48] to the entire campus, for example.

[31:51] So, the underlying campus zoning, I know the height limit off the top of my head is 30%,

[31:58] I want to say the lot covered, or 35 feet, I want to say the lot covered,

[32:02] you'll need to somewhere around 35%.

[32:05] So, that would help maintain other areas of campus and have much more significant open space

[32:11] and some parts of the campus that would be able to be more intensely developed.

[32:18] We'll do one more question and then we'll go to air hard online.

[32:23] I find an 80 sort of life on the waterland block, except it's just my name, you know, I don't know how it's in the world of life, but 80 seems out of step with whatever it's there.

[32:47] What do you say?

[32:48] about what to go to go as great as now. Do you want to say that love? Yeah, if you go as great

[32:52] next door as about that height. So as far as scale, it's not actually at a scale. Is that a scale

[32:57] perhaps? Or is that the more prospecting for ourselves? That's the same property, really.

[33:04] Okay.

[33:08] Yeah. From watermelon loss? Yeah, it kind of goes well on the head. Yeah, slightly slow.

[33:14] Okay, we'll go to air hard.

[33:18] Can you, Hi folks, can you hear me?

[33:21] Yes, and I'll amplify if need be.

[33:23] Great, thanks.

[33:25] Well, just to start off,

[33:28] Erhart-Maka here, Ward 1, live over on 6th Grove Street.

[33:33] And I guess I'll just start by saying thanks to Megan to you

[33:40] and Brian and to the EVM team for doing this.

[33:45] It's hard work.

[33:46] As some folks may know, I was a city councilor,

[33:51] president city council when the first UVM agreement was negotiated.

[33:55] And so I know how hard this work is.

[33:59] That said, it's way overdue.

[34:03] So doubly glad that you're having this conversation amongst

[34:09] between the city and the institution and bringing this out to folks to get their comments.

[34:20] I will say thank you for this last slide. It is probably the best definition of what the deficit is currently that I have seen.

[34:33] And I'll just note, I mean, it's obvious, but it really defines really, really well how

[34:42] the increase of 4,000 students in just over 4,000 students undergraduates within that 23-year

[34:52] timeframe from the fall of 2000 to the fall of 2023, that 4,000 student increase has resulted

[35:00] that in a net increased deficit of 2,000 units there.

[35:07] And I'm being rough in terms of the numbers.

[35:10] And quantifying that I think is really important.

[35:15] And I see maybe that that is also part of the logic behind, you know,

[35:21] the proposed agreement of increasing by one and a half beds, you know,

[35:27] for any additional students.

[35:29] That said, I would ask a couple of questions, one is, so this chart puts out a maximum

[35:41] enrollment of 11,765 undergraduates and projects that forward.

[35:48] What is the commitment to stick to that number, to get down to the number of off-campus beds,

[35:58] the demand for off-campus beds that was existing back in the fall of 2000.

[36:04] This chart is great, but if there isn't a commitment to stick to that 11,765 students

[36:14] over time, over the five-year course of the MOU, then the reduction of demand that's projected

[36:22] here is meaningless. And so I guess my main question is what is the commitment to stick to roughly

[36:31] that 11,765 number over the next five years. And then the other question related to that is

[36:39] these projected 1500 I know Catamount Woods is under development. What is the timeline for

[36:48] the increased units behind the rugby field, behind the old Sheraton, Waterman, and Trinity.

[36:56] And then one other question which came up as a result of one of the other comments, which

[37:01] is since my understanding is the Catamount Woods in South Burlington is largely for graduate

[37:10] students or am I mistaken in that?

[37:13] And I guess my question is if it's for both graduate students and undergraduates, is there some double counting going on and I would underscore the last person, the last commenters request to include the overall number of students including graduate students in the in the calculations.

[37:36] So three questions there. What's the timeline for the new units? What is the commitment to the maximum enrollment that's depicted here?

[37:46] And is there double counting between graduate students and undergraduates specifically in the South for only the units?

[37:54] Oh, and just two other quick comments, just what are you doing about triples and the reduction

[38:03] of triples?

[38:04] And in addition to making these units on campus attractive, I would say that EVM really

[38:12] needs to look at its on campus rules and the enforcement thereof because that is one

[38:19] of the biggest incentives for students to move off campus and be on the local housing

[38:23] working. Sorry to go on for a bit, but thanks and appreciate those three questions getting

[38:30] addressed.

[38:31] All right.

[38:31] I'll try to cover your points and Brian.

[38:33] I'll mind me if I forget.

[38:34] Yeah.

[38:34] He's running down.

[38:35] But you are mistaken in terms of self-reliance, and so it's sort of clear.

[38:40] Catamount run, 620 beds, and graduate housing.

[38:44] Catamount woods behind the old Sheridan, now a double tree, is entirely undercooked.

[38:52] So, two different projects, the graduate one is 620 beds and about 540 beds in the

[38:59] double-treat project.

[39:02] In terms of your commitment to being able to make them what we say, and I think as you

[39:08] alluded to, we can't tell you exactly how many students are going to walk in the door

[39:13] every system.

[39:14] But what we have committed to here is to say that during the exterior it is our goal to

[39:20] I have no more than 3,000 first-year students and so on.

[39:24] That's what we've been doing recently.

[39:27] Last year, we were all over.

[39:29] This year, we're all under.

[39:32] So if you just do the math for four classes, in 3,000

[39:36] community, a year, and then you've got a tradition

[39:40] that keeps us under the 12,000.

[39:42] So it's in that ballpark of a 1,000, 75.

[39:46] In terms of the timing on these various projects,

[39:50] We really haven't been able to get too specific about that.

[39:55] There's not going to be where we stand on the zoning.

[39:58] And we need to be clear, you know, this zoning would enable construction.

[40:05] And we're very interested in doing construction on these sites.

[40:09] But it doesn't mean that we would have been making construction on all these sites, all at once, right?

[40:14] like that, we don't want to miss the market over build at the same time. So they would

[40:21] be done incrementally, and the goal would be to start with the rugby field project.

[40:29] Tripples.

[40:30] And then tripples, what we're doing, if you look at, if you saw the chart, not the table rather

[40:41] that Megan provided, about in the middle it says max and roll with plus 160 least beds.

[40:48] One of our primary goals where the 160 least beds is to relieve some of the pressure on trippers.

[40:56] We have some, and actually a fair number of students that want the triple,

[41:02] but we have others who prefer not to manage. And that is the beginning of the mechanism by which

[41:11] which we release some of the pressure on the person that's with us at least.

[41:18] Okay, I see you, Troy, and we have two more people online.

[41:21] Is there anybody else in the room that wants to ask a question that hasn't?

[41:25] Okay. Okay, so I'll go to Selvig, and then we'll go to Milo online.

[41:33] Go ahead, go ahead.

[41:34] I want to follow up on this specific question.

[41:36] Okay.

[41:37] have to push or address. Do you do surveys of students, do you

[41:44] use the seniors to know what sort of housing they want? Because I find it a

[41:51] lot of us who were willing to continue to find the housing for people, whether

[41:55] it's the pods on Elwood or these apartments for students, don't really know

[42:03] trauma to perspective of those students and it sounds like there were some surveys

[42:06] that were done, but my concern is that we really are not being very creative on the kind of housing

[42:12] that we come up with because we don't ask the people that are expected to live there. So

[42:18] are their regular surveys done about the two years and seniors? The factors like building one

[42:25] of the laws campus because their laws are in books. Well, does that happen? It's less about formal surveys

[42:34] and more about ongoing conversations with students

[42:38] that are moving off campus.

[42:39] To find out more about what they're going into,

[42:41] and is it what they would want,

[42:43] or would they want it to be different?

[42:46] And so, it's very clear, and again,

[42:51] every student has different purpose,

[42:54] but it's very clear that students leaving campus,

[42:58] typically are looking to have their own bedroom

[43:00] end of the process as opposed to having two people in a dorm. Now some, some

[43:08] juniors have expressed that they'd be happy enough if they could be on campus,

[43:14] that's the end of the dorm. But we have tried to guide our plan based on what

[43:21] we're hearing students say. As you know, a part of the problem in Burlington is

[43:26] is that so many of these apartments were never,

[43:30] the buildings were never meant to be apartments.

[43:32] They were old Victorian houses that got converted.

[43:35] And when that happens,

[43:37] it's impossible to plan them out as well

[43:39] as you can when you're building a new apartment.

[43:42] So we're trying to wrestle.

[43:44] We think we're hearing from the majority of students,

[43:48] but obviously there are many different cases.

[43:51] I think it's a selection of data

[43:53] that you're completely missing

[43:55] if you don't regularly say, what is it that you want?

[43:59] Because then you can design through that.

[44:01] And I just figured about my college days.

[44:04] What I looked for, I looked for a little price,

[44:08] and I didn't care if it was an ugly place,

[44:10] hand, and I looked on the gallery.

[44:13] That was great, and it was noisy.

[44:16] So I thought you're missing your point.

[44:18] So I'm suggesting that be valuable for the selection of that.

[44:22] And the second thing is you set some kits

[44:23] on a triple. And I'm wondering what the costs are for a single double and a triple. So what would

[44:32] you a student pay because part of it could be priced as well. That's brought out another time.

[44:37] So there needs to be a graded about having like singles that has community space and a kitchen kind

[44:45] of thing. You know I don't think people being very graded about housing for homeless people. I

[44:53] and dealing with the thoughts were a good idea.

[44:55] They weren't softer than people on Thursday,

[44:57] so we put into something that.

[45:00] We think, I think, good. I feel like we need to do the same thing. So what is the price of a strip

[45:05] ball student, which for months, we're a triple bed, and what would be a year-and-a-year deal?

[45:10] Well, I'm not going to be able to pass send you one. The triple, yes. So the question for sale. So again,

[45:16] prices on this agenda always happen. And what is it this year? We're going to have a cost. But the three

[45:21] better units, if we are currently have under construction, would be $3,300 that be $100 per

[45:30] But right now, like if you're granted a triple on campus, what are you going to do today?

[45:36] Well, if you've got three people in a row that's in the vicinity of maybe $7,200, it's variable, but probably something like that.

[45:45] For the whole year, or we're not.

[45:48] So that's for the four month term.

[45:52] Okay, so how much does that mean?

[45:53] Well, it's more expensive than what we're talking about in terms of monthly rental.

[45:58] Because in that case, they're paying in the neighborhood of $1,700 to $1,800 a month.

[46:11] It has two or three people in adorable.

[46:15] From one person to the other.

[46:19] It's simply in the car.

[46:32] So we have a Brian is making a helpful list of all the hands that we've seen. So we're going to keep going down. So we've got Troy, Michael, Milo, Richard, Kate, Amy.

[46:44] Okay, and I'll figure out this one, one last couple of minutes.

[46:48] All of this information that some of your folks have already looked it up,

[46:52] it's right on our website, if you look on our room and board site to find all the way.

[46:58] I try not to memorize everything I'm looking at.

[47:01] I just don't know where they're at, because the information that you're saying,

[47:05] Some of them are still in the classroom and some of them are still in the classroom.

[47:12] Just building on the discussion we are having about how we know what students are looking

[47:20] for.

[47:21] Just have one conversation at the time please.

[47:24] That would help a lot.

[47:25] The question about how we know what students are looking for.

[47:27] How do you do that?

[47:28] We've had a variety of forums.

[47:29] I've been part of some of them where we silly great students and talk about what they're

[47:34] hopes are. Now, obviously, what the bottom line. Did you say that? Did you say that?

[47:40] With graduate and undergraduate. With both. And the bottom line is at the end of the day,

[47:50] what they would all hold towards, they have a nice apartment, perhaps the cost of building out of

[47:55] heart. And I can't blame them. I think everybody would work. So, price is critical. Obviously,

[48:00] But unfortunately, it is this very expensive to both of them.

[48:06] Okay, we have Troy, then Michael.

[48:10] Yeah, so let me just, I didn't do this before.

[48:14] My name is Troy Hendrick.

[48:16] I'm a state rapid-criticism team, which is war one.

[48:19] The neighborhood surrounding campus.

[48:23] Chinning campus president is all turning to campus president.

[48:26] talls, keen ass, and then the neighborhoods kind of

[48:31] north of the main street.

[48:33] Also a longtime employee of BPM, including from 1996 to 2003

[48:38] with the Department of Residence, Julya.

[48:40] Currently, we're right up to these students of this kind of.

[48:44] In my world as a rep, this is the number one issue that

[48:47] you're growing everybody.

[48:49] Students and long-term residents, causing impacts.

[48:54] I had talked about this whenever possible, and continue to talk about this until it gets

[49:00] resolved.

[49:05] So, I start with a healthy dose of skepticism about when I hear the decay talking about

[49:14] we're committed to, it's not a right, by the way.

[49:17] That couldn't, it is not in the end volume, and this is,

[49:21] Yes it is.

[49:23] This is Charlie Brown and Lucy, not Scott, right?

[49:29] You can be on this Lucy thing, hit the ball, hit the ball,

[49:31] trust me, trust me.

[49:32] The city is being asked to kick the ball.

[49:35] Right in time and time again.

[49:40] The pattern is this.

[49:41] You can be on your bus.

[49:43] Don't need permission to build a new residence hall.

[49:47] Within five years, the increasing enrollment beyond capacity of those residents

[49:52] all started showing its students and intervals, and then they said, we need to build new

[49:56] houses here.

[49:58] So they do.

[50:00] So this happened after the building was established after the open CCRH, and then the increasing

[50:07] enrollment, and I get it, it's a quality-fronted state institution, not necessarily in my definition,

[50:21] I know we need to make money, you know, to stay in staff, and so

[50:31] building housing, expanding

[50:35] enrollment, sub students in the triple, building housing, expanding enrollment, so students

[50:39] in the triple, and here we go again,

[50:46] that this pattern is not repeat, it has been repeating since

[50:49] the 90s, not earlier.

[50:52] That's when I'm breaking up.

[50:56] It is not unreasonable.

[51:03] Stop your line, Senator.

[51:04] We're going to end the practice of course ordinance.

[51:06] It is not unreasonable.

[51:10] It's unreasonable.

[51:11] This is probably a longer day that you may have to prevent

[51:14] to do many things that attract students to stay

[51:17] into the new parliament building on campus.

[51:21] I think that's possible.

[51:23] I don't think it's impractical for this MOU to include an actual

[51:29] enrollment plan, at least for the term on the

[51:32] on what we need. It does not. I don't think that I think we should extend the

[51:37] only 10 years. I think that's important. But we have to reduce

[51:41] triples. We have to end practice of triples. I can tell you briefly about

[51:47] your, I talked to students about the impact that's having and why they're in my

[51:51] mom's. This why I would rely on this why I would rely on Apple. Like I go back

[51:57] to sleep when one of my roommates is night person and one of my roommates is

[52:02] how to play and use it. It is happening in fact the students, and it is detrimental.

[52:07] We have to enforce this. And we have to attract students to stay on the campus.

[52:14] I think that's a price point.

[52:17] Finally, my express is to be taken to Brian as they walk in the door.

[52:25] The concept by which this is being developed is incredibly bad policy.

[52:31] So the State Auditor, this is the department that

[52:38] produces politically neutral reports what is happening.

[52:43] They have been

[52:48] precisely about this issue.

[52:51] What is the impact and role in that union in service

[52:56] currently being generated?

[52:58] The city was informed that the report was going to be generated in early December.

[53:02] New Vietnam, hypothetically was notified in early December that they're before it's been generated.

[53:08] The city did not inform the state counselors that that report was being generated,

[53:12] yet they're being asked to vote on an employee.

[53:15] And we know that the floor is coming out from the state auditor's office.

[53:22] You may have been informed in the trustees that that report is being written,

[53:27] and yet they were asked to have a hand in this envelope.

[53:30] That is profoundly disappointing.

[53:33] And what it points to is that the mayor has an agenda to give us an only pass.

[53:40] I don't know why it appears that the mayor's office and the union

[53:49] would just shoving this

[53:51] in a way that our privilege.

[53:53] Oh my god.

[53:55] Whoever is speaking, you're not a mute and we can all hear you.

[54:03] That's because the point is

[54:10] for why the city wouldn't have been more privileged,

[54:16] why he didn't

[54:17] in both the trustees that this has been reported to you.

[54:20] I think that's important information to have

[54:22] before we press just in both of you.

[54:27] Yeah, I mean,

[54:28] I think it's either it's not your question.

[54:29] Well, can I start?

[54:31] It's just offering to the,

[54:35] I'll let Brian speak to the actual notification

[54:38] from the auditor's office, but I'll just say like,

[54:41] we've been working,

[54:44] This is not just the mayor's office that's been working on this, you know, this is Brian and I who are here as city employees who are helping to translate the interests of residents of counselors and the mayor all into something that we could also get to a place of agreement with UVN around.

[55:06] and I want to just state very clearly that we have heard a lot and we have been working very hard on this.

[55:15] We do understand that thinking about the impact of housing and enrollment growth on the campus and in the campus system is very important to our housing market.

[55:26] And this chart is actually something that we as a staff put together in order to help the council understand how housing and enrollment have changed on the campus system.

[55:41] Over time, we use 2009 as the benchmark because it was our most recent MOU and, you know, we really heard people's concerns about not being able to clearly understand what that chart was telling us, which is why we translated what we know.

[55:56] what we understand about the current impacts and what the future impacts could be of this MOU into

[56:03] this chart. So we are doing our best as a city with the information that we have to inform the

[56:09] conversation around impacts, historic and future. So we agree that that's an important context and

[56:16] we've been trying to provide it. So I'll just explain since Representative Patrick raised the issue

[56:24] and implied that somehow there was an intention

[56:27] to withhold information.

[56:30] I mean, I'll take full blame and responsibility

[56:32] for the fact that the otters assistant

[56:35] or an analyst with the otters office reached out to me

[56:39] about the 12th of December.

[56:42] Said we got to talk about some stuff

[56:44] regarding UVM housing.

[56:45] It took me a few days to respond.

[56:48] By the time I responded, we were well into the holidays.

[56:50] days, we then reconnected after the first of the year, it came to me, it didn't come to

[56:56] the mayor's office.

[56:57] So I'll just completely confess, I didn't get to it.

[57:00] I have 80 to 100 emails a day that aren't junk emails.

[57:04] I have a ton of things that I'm working on.

[57:06] I worked 14 hours last night, it's 12 hours today.

[57:11] We are working our tails off.

[57:13] So to insinuate that we are withholding information, I really take exception to that.

[57:17] I take umbrains to the notion that we are somehow hiding this information.

[57:21] We get requests for information on a regular basis.

[57:24] We don't necessarily go to the mayor and inform the mayor of the information.

[57:27] The council isn't necessarily aware of every request we get for information that is not current

[57:32] practice.

[57:33] It has never been the practice.

[57:34] It is really, it's not helpful to have accusations.

[57:38] So I would just say the council will be making this decision on their schedule.

[57:42] They may not decide to do it on the 29th of January.

[57:45] but right now that's their schedule. And whether the auditors assessment is done by then,

[57:50] we don't know whether it will be done by then. They asked for reports that were submitted by

[57:54] UVM over the last from 2009 to 2019. It took us a few days to gather all the reports,

[58:01] today those were sent. I mean, we're really working as best we can. So please, just bear with us.

[58:08] I just answered that. I just answered that question when I said I take full responsibility.

[58:15] I'm sorry, Troy. I'm not going to engage in that.

[58:17] Okay. Okay.

[58:21] We had a line of people. Where did the line go? Sorry.

[58:27] I think Milo was next, so we're going to enable you.

[58:31] Oh, I'm sorry, Michael. I committed to Michael and then Milo. I'm sorry.

[58:34] Let me take it, so U.N. and the city we're all living in.

[58:45] The preamlet I've done very interesting talk about,

[58:48] about how wonderful folks of us are, the city and the U.N.

[58:53] That's true in some ways.

[58:55] I love growing tin and I love you, B.A.M.

[58:57] and growing tin and we're growing tin and we're out.

[59:00] The U.N. and both the city and U.N. are responsible

[59:05] for a lot of serious damage to neighborhoods in the housing stock over the course of a number of years of neglect and no use at all.

[59:16] And it's important to me that any new employee just doesn't chip away at or acknowledge that there's a problem.

[59:26] I want to make some substantial progress in solving problems.

[59:33] And that requires a more than four or five-year timeframe as it's been noted already.

[59:40] And it requires a firm and reliable and without exception, committed to getting more

[59:58] on your ground in the midst.

[1:00:00] On campus, and out of the neighborhoods, because that's the one thing that's going to change the situation and improve the quality of housing for the students and improve the neighborhoods for the community.

[1:00:19] good, lots of inputs in our city have just been sort of offered up as sacrificial areas and

[1:00:29] even the rules of zoning and so forth, whether or not they're supposed to be the same across

[1:00:34] the city, but they're not inclined in the same way. Certain areas are kind of abandoned in some

[1:00:46] and I think it's wonderful as we all are,

[1:00:50] how we need to acknowledge that we've made

[1:00:53] some serious and serious and serious damage

[1:00:56] and reparations are important.

[1:01:00] Okay, thank you, Michael.

[1:01:01] We'll go to Milo.

[1:01:02] Milo, you should be able to speak.

[1:01:06] Hi, thank you.

[1:01:07] Some of my questions were answered,

[1:01:10] so I won't repeat some things,

[1:01:12] except to say that the issue around graduate students,

[1:01:15] I think is profoundly important, and they need to be part of what is in the MOU, because

[1:01:23] they are part of the university, part of the city, and are definitely affecting our

[1:01:32] housing numbers.

[1:01:33] So I do feel very strongly about that.

[1:01:35] To kind of piggyback on, you know, surveying students and having an understanding of what

[1:01:42] students want.

[1:01:43] I definitely commend the university about understanding the fact that what they build

[1:01:49] that's new needs to be apartment style and not these old dorms right because when you

[1:01:57] start to get of a certain age there's issues of independence, there's issues of privacy.

[1:02:04] I think the issues of privacy are really being undervalued in this conversation.

[1:02:11] When we take a look at having 30% of people in triples, and I do understand that there

[1:02:18] are people who want to save money, do go into triples voluntarily, but you've got 30%

[1:02:24] that is really astounding to me.

[1:02:27] In conditions where the average amount of space is below housing code, that's a grave concern

[1:02:37] to me.

[1:02:37] So I do applaud the apartment-style buildings.

[1:02:40] Those would definitely be more attractive to upper-classmen.

[1:02:47] And part of thinking about this is to understand that if you have a building that's not for

[1:02:55] graduate students but for upper-classmen, say, juniors and seniors, that building needs

[1:03:00] to be for juniors and seniors because if they're going to be 21 and up, they're not going

[1:03:04] to want the same restrictions with regards to alcohol.

[1:03:08] So the university is going to have to look at that in a certain way because it's all part

[1:03:12] of independence and it is all part of, you know, you have people that choose to drink,

[1:03:18] some who don't choose to drink, but if you're going to put them in a housing situation where

[1:03:22] you're not giving them the option, they are not going to take it and they're going to go

[1:03:26] out into the city.

[1:03:30] So, you know, those things have to be a part of what is going on as well and I will leave

[1:03:41] it like that and if I have another question later, I'll pop back in. Thank you so much.

[1:03:46] Okay. Who is next, Frank?

[1:03:50] Richard Hilliard and then Kate Morris on that.

[1:03:53] Thanks.

[1:03:55] My name is Richard India.

[1:03:56] I just heard that.

[1:03:59] I don't understand the imperative for this to get signed

[1:04:04] on the terms of January.

[1:04:08] If the first time in the City Council had disability,

[1:04:12] I'll bet it was seven days before Christmas.

[1:04:16] So that's about 42 days.

[1:04:18] and trade off Christmas and New Year's, taking 10 days off.

[1:04:23] And trying to get as true in that 30 days,

[1:04:28] I

[1:04:31] can't be deferred until this decision might come to go

[1:04:36] to the New City Council, a new man after election day.

[1:04:44] His man has history trying to push things through

[1:04:49] We could not see the way

[1:04:53] people have done and should have no confidence that this is being done in good faith.

[1:05:02] What are comments for?

[1:05:06] Well, and I'll just respond and if Brian wants to add anything.

[1:05:10] So I had mentioned in the presentation that we started talking with UDM again back in the spring.

[1:05:16] so it's taken us some time to get to a place where we had an agreement that we were, we felt comfortable,

[1:05:25] you know, sharing at the full council level and starting to publicly discuss. So this has been

[1:05:32] something that we've been working on for quite some time with the existing council and. Right,

[1:05:38] so I'm getting to that point, just that we have been having those discussions with the existing

[1:05:42] Council and with the existing administration. And so there are a number of things right now that we're working on with the council that are things that we've been working on with them for a number of months. And so that's one of the things that we're looking at is bringing this council an opportunity to make a decision on what we've shared with them.

[1:06:01] Ultimately, it's the council's decision about when they take things up.

[1:06:06] But that's, you know, from a staff perspective, it's because we've been working with this council on this so far.

[1:06:15] So I still don't understand why it can't be as fun until we have an even administration in place.

[1:06:22] I don't see anything in this for the city.

[1:06:25] I see a lot of people using me out, but I don't even see anything for the city.

[1:06:31] And just as Brian used to screen the video of Christmas, so we're all the residents

[1:06:39] and whether they all have a chance to assimilate everything and discuss it.

[1:06:46] I'm not sure, but there's some things that stick out as far as I'm concerned.

[1:06:50] So, I don't see any direct benefit for violence and housing.

[1:06:58] It could even be the detriment if the whole community is all of a sudden competing for contractors

[1:07:06] and tradesmen.

[1:07:07] We hope that this specific place, so this is going to be times two or three, I don't consider.

[1:07:15] That means the problem.

[1:07:18] the duration of the previous problem five years since it will be halfway through before

[1:07:23] we get a building up. So I don't understand that at all, since like it should be these

[1:07:29] 10 years, probably a long and 10 years, would seem to be better.

[1:07:37] Enforcement by the city, the city, not enforcement, but in place at the moment, however, there's

[1:07:46] So, finally, environmental issues, I haven't heard anything about environmental issues

[1:07:56] specifically in 2001. But maybe for the British city as well, we heard maybe anecdotally

[1:08:05] you're going to be post-operceded in

[1:08:12] arms in Lithuania, but there's a limit, so how much

[1:08:19] construction in usefully go on to the top of the hill.

[1:08:26] I haven't heard anything about that. I haven't heard anything about protecting

[1:08:33] since any of the words, anything about

[1:08:36] since any of the word.

[1:08:39] And my

[1:08:43] so many solutions to sound is, is to all

[1:08:46] the opinion that this is a

[1:08:48] a countywide

[1:08:51] issue and not just a citywide

[1:08:54] to get the best results,

[1:08:57] the ultimate results for the whole

[1:08:58] community.

[1:09:00] So I'll start.

[1:09:02] Thank you, Richard.

[1:09:07] Katie Morris.

[1:09:08] Katie Morris online.

[1:09:14] I think Sarah and I pushed a button at the same time Katie, you should be able to.

[1:09:18] Hi, can you hear me?

[1:09:20] Hi, this is Caitlin Morris.

[1:09:23] I'm the director of United academics, UVM's faculty union.

[1:09:28] So my perspective is primarily as someone who works with faculty and staff every day.

[1:09:36] I'm also a Burlington resident.

[1:09:39] And I wanted to just echo some of the earlier comments about one Megan Tuttle's point

[1:09:47] about counting graduate students.

[1:09:48] And I think that we're hearing a lot of echoes.

[1:09:51] I completely agree and that has been a concern.

[1:09:55] The other is thinking back to one of the first slides that you showed that said that

[1:10:03] UVM has a goal of supporting faculty, staff, and graduate students as well as undergrads

[1:10:10] in housing.

[1:10:12] And I wanted to just share that in the last couple of years, housing for employees at UVM

[1:10:20] has been one of the top issues that we hear about, it's a huge concern, was not an issue

[1:10:27] that we heard about before the pandemic, much at all. And I think, you know, for the reasons

[1:10:35] that we all know of the tight housing market, but also UVM, fortunately, is now hiring faculty

[1:10:44] again, which there was really most of a hiring freeze for several years, and people have

[1:10:50] really burned out, as the earlier staff members said, you know, there is, people are at the

[1:10:57] breaking point of overwork and taking on overloads, classes, class sizes have been increased.

[1:11:04] People are expected to let in more and more students.

[1:11:07] and it's fortunate that there's new hiring.

[1:11:11] However, a lot of the searches for faculty have failed

[1:11:16] because people cannot find places to live

[1:11:20] and a lot of faculty who have come here

[1:11:23] in the last couple of years are coming to us saying,

[1:11:26] I'm just in a someone's room while I try to find

[1:11:29] somewhere to live and it turns out my salary isn't high enough

[1:11:32] to live anywhere in Burlington.

[1:11:34] and you know, BIPOC faculty who have moved here who say, I need to live in Burlington if

[1:11:42] I'm going to live in this state and I can't afford anything in Burlington.

[1:11:48] Starting salary for full-time new lecturers in some cases was $47,500.

[1:11:56] People were hired in full-time jobs under $50,000 in Burlington.

[1:12:02] So my question to the UVM folks, which I guess is Richard Kate, is just to articulate a

[1:12:13] little bit about the plan that UVM has for housing, faculty, and staff.

[1:12:19] And I will say I spoke about faculty, but we heard that from staff council and staff unions

[1:12:25] that they're also really suffering with open positions and lack of housing. Thank you.

[1:12:36] One of the buildings in the first phase of Catamount's run is quite a bit smaller than the others.

[1:12:45] And the plan is to dedicate that building with 30 plus apartments right now as a starting point

[1:12:53] for factants and then if there's further demand to include additional units in the second phase.

[1:13:04] So we don't have, and of course as you point out, it's not like there's a whole bunch of people

[1:13:12] waiting at the same instant in time. It's kind of incremental. If you select a faculty member,

[1:13:18] than is that that's the point when you need the flexibility. So the hope is that we can

[1:13:23] build in enough flexibility so that at least is an interim point. Now obviously this

[1:13:29] folks eventually may want their own you know single family home sometime but in this case at least

[1:13:35] they would allow them to get into the area and have an apartment and then hopefully migrate from that

[1:13:43] over time. So that's that's the current plan and Kate I know that your question was specific to

[1:13:53] faculty and staff at UVM and UVM's plans around housing but I will just note and I mentioned

[1:13:59] this at the beginning that we have been talking about the housing needs of UVM alongside other housing

[1:14:09] issues here in Burlington as well and have been working on a number of other policy changes

[1:14:16] that relate to how we can expand the availability of housing citywide for many people in our community

[1:14:22] as well. So we do recognize that we need to be doing we all need to be doing all of these things

[1:14:27] together at the same time to address the needs of our community for housing. Okay so would we have next?

[1:14:35] I have Amy for round two, but she left.

[1:14:39] Amy left, okay?

[1:14:40] Care long.

[1:14:41] Care long.

[1:14:42] Thank you.

[1:14:43] I have a couple of questions.

[1:14:45] So that's what I have just heard now about this report that is supposed to come out about

[1:14:54] the housing attack and grunting.

[1:14:56] but have you now a little UVM ends?

[1:15:10] We have responded to what we were asked for, which were mostly just in public. We were provided all information was initially asked for. We just recently got a request from the more data, but we're providing that.

[1:15:24] Okay, because I mean, I think that would be awesome if that was available and if not put the build-off to more weeks there

[1:15:32] Another month, whatever the council will still be there the same council until April, right?

[1:15:38] Yeah, the end of March the end of March. Yeah, yeah, so that I mean, I think that's sort of like a given that we should speak to that

[1:15:45] But one thing I wanted to comment on I wanted to thank you

[1:15:50] And I guess you go by APK, so Mr. K. Anyway, about what you said about housing in Burlington that many of the homes that students are living in are Victorian homes that have been retrofitted to be pretty substandard house.

[1:16:08] And we all love that, I could say that.

[1:16:10] And I mean, you know, there are certain neighborhoods that have really been lost, which is super sad if you walk downtown.

[1:16:18] Anyway, but what is happening, and I was just like, I've been involved in this for like two years,

[1:16:26] The Asian street is one of our vast neighborhoods, unfortunately, even very standard screw up there.

[1:16:32] It lives there. The McKenzie family was raised there, some kind of other famous family people for our tent.

[1:16:41] But for two years, I've been watching the homie be, you know, the lady by trucked up, destroyed in my opinion.

[1:16:48] and actually just, if you're able to see,

[1:16:52] but what it sounds to me is that our state

[1:16:55] should be bananas, coached as a person.

[1:16:59] There's already two units,

[1:17:00] and there's already seven people living in this home.

[1:17:03] And I, you know, it's just been for what they've been

[1:17:07] going through with the construction,

[1:17:09] and they have been allowed to turn a hip-root into a gable

[1:17:12] who they have put in a beautiful forge in the back

[1:17:17] that now is by a stairway to the third floor because they want to begin it and the city has been

[1:17:24] coaching this landlord how he could put a unit on there to add more students and to me yes we

[1:17:33] need housing but this is the wrong way to go about and I think we need apartment buildings I think we

[1:17:39] we need things to build that are safe and livable for people.

[1:17:45] So anyway, I'm pretty shocked at what I've seen

[1:17:48] and the city notes that I'm said about it.

[1:17:53] But that is how we're operating.

[1:17:55] And I guess the bottom line is,

[1:17:57] the city is gonna do anything to get one more unit

[1:18:01] for people that really it's not,

[1:18:04] if you know adding space is not the greatest place

[1:18:06] still good for anybody. So anyway, thank you for your comment because I think you're totally right.

[1:18:13] The Victorian halls should not be chopped up anymore and that we need to build housing.

[1:18:21] We need to, and I totally agree with everybody, we need to put a cap on it because we cannot,

[1:18:29] you know, until we build a housing, we can't keep talking more people coming in here and

[1:18:35] live in these, you know, trickles, so land you through time. Okay, who's next?

[1:18:43] Anya? Someone here did one here. One second, I have just a couple more sharing. Anya?

[1:18:52] Oh no, I put Anna, Brenna, but she just left. So then the next, I see three people online who

[1:19:01] haven't spoken so we'll go to Evan Gold.

[1:19:06] Hi, can you hear me? Yep, go ahead Evan. Hi. Yeah,

[1:19:10] I just wanted to kind of voice my support. I think this is long overdue. I think in general,

[1:19:17] UVM zoning is very restrictive compared to other universities and other places. I've lived in

[1:19:23] Burlington for 15 years. I'm a UVM grad. And yeah, I think this is a good step forward. I think there's

[1:19:32] other changes that could be made. But I'm in support of the changes. Just wanted to say that.

[1:19:38] And thank you for your work, Megan.

[1:19:41] Okay. Thanks, Evan. The next step is Barbara Hedrick.

[1:19:49] There we go. I think you should be able to speak forever. Okay. Likewise, I'm very happy that

[1:19:55] UVM is going to add a lot of student housing to campus. But I feel that housing should

[1:20:04] There should be much more housing available for upper-classmen and graduate students than

[1:20:12] what the current MOU includes, and I'd like to discuss faculty comments that were just

[1:20:22] made about faculty housing.

[1:20:24] when my husband joined the UVM faculty in 2001 we came up to look for housing and the

[1:20:33] apartments. Since he was moving up here before I was dual career couple, the apartments we looked

[1:20:41] at in Burlington were horrible. I couldn't imagine anyone living in them. It reminded me of really bad

[1:20:51] student housing that I had in college.

[1:20:55] Not at all really good if you're trying to attract

[1:20:59] good faculty to the university and UVM wants to attract good faculty therefore it should really

[1:21:06] work to make sure that single-family homes in Burlington are protected and not chopped up into

[1:21:15] apartments because faculty wants to live in the city and many of them want to have single-family

[1:21:21] homes. What happened is the three of us, when I moved up a year later with our son,

[1:21:29] the three of us had to share one bedroom.

[1:21:35] Until a couple of years later,

[1:21:37] we could find a house to buy and we were so lucky to get it. It was completely out of our price

[1:21:45] range but we were lucky to get it because we heard about it word of mouth and worked the back channels

[1:21:50] to get it. And thank God because the prices have just gone up even further and the number of

[1:21:57] single-family homes has gone down. I read recently in Vermont Digger that in Burlington, 38 percent

[1:22:07] of the housing units are not owner-occupied. And this is an extraordinarily large percentage

[1:22:13] that are not owner occupied by across, you know, comparing it to other cities.

[1:22:20] So, we really need to stop trying to chop.

[1:22:27] You know, this neighborhood code is recommending chopping up houses into more units.

[1:22:32] But that is not going to help UVM because it's going to be very hard to recruit great faculty and university.

[1:22:39] If you don't have single family homes that where people can walk the campus.

[1:22:45] Thanks very much.

[1:22:46] Thank you Barbara.

[1:22:47] Next we have David Crowley online in the will.

[1:22:51] Sorry, colleagues.

[1:22:53] I passed everyone his names.

[1:22:54] All

[1:22:56] right, David, you should be able to speak.

[1:23:01] Hi, can you hear me now?

[1:23:03] Yep, go ahead.

[1:23:04] This is I've been listening to this discussion and I was at the ward one,

[1:23:09] but I have a very basic question and I hope that you might be able to answer it. The chart that

[1:23:15] you're showing has 2,110 units being added by these four projects, you know, Rugby, Waterman,

[1:23:24] and Trinity One and Two, which is great. That's adding all this new housing. Does the 1.5

[1:23:32] number per new student that would be added on top of these numbers or these numbers part of that

[1:23:39] one point five metric. Well the question would be is whether a rule would rule

[1:23:47] beyond the 1175. So these projects would be designed to do two things. One would

[1:23:56] be to address the current situation and thereby drive off the vacancy rate

[1:24:04] in Burlington for existing housing and however if it was additional growth we

[1:24:14] would still be within the bounds. Say that there were we took on another hundred

[1:24:20] students and therefore that would require us to build another hundred and fifty

[1:24:23] days. That could be within this number but we can't

[1:24:30] subject specific. So this would allow us to grow, but we don't have a plan to grow. The goal

[1:24:40] here is going to have more and better housing for our students, for our existing

[1:24:48] population of students.

[1:24:52] So for clarity, can I just ask again, so you're saying that if the university

[1:24:58] grows, these four projects will serve as the expanded housing that the MOU is calling for.

[1:25:09] It could.

[1:25:10] Although we have no plan to grow by any substantial amount during this timeframe, and that's why we are projecting having more students.

[1:25:20] And that's why many of these numbers in the table, I think.

[1:25:24] But if there was another hundred through this, yes, that they could help us cover that.

[1:25:31] Okay, thank you.

[1:25:33] Thank you, David.

[1:25:34] We're going to go to Gilhat.

[1:25:37] We were saying, I'm sorry.

[1:25:39] We know a lot of people's names, but I apologize.

[1:25:44] You know, many other times.

[1:25:48] I'm currently in vice president of the government's position.

[1:25:52] I am also a tour guide, so I have a lot of ideas to face with this kind of issue that

[1:25:57] actually when I ran the first group of government kind of has a situation, was there a piece

[1:26:01] I wanted to see.

[1:26:03] How do you give it all?

[1:26:04] So, you're reading through this and when you do kind of this, it's been the conversation.

[1:26:08] I do agree.

[1:26:09] I think there needs to be an increase in the debt and the value of building housing is really important,

[1:26:16] but I think it's also like even more important kind of a little bit because I think this and

[1:26:20] you think you can be the great things in the city or everything you could have a very negative impact on not only

[1:26:25] the city's residents but also students at university. I myself was in trouble my first two years. That was not my choice,

[1:26:32] so I was lucky to have some really great roommates. I'm going on a great bit, but I know that's not situation for everybody,

[1:26:37] so I think it's really important that we consider that, and you know, in this kind of you I do see that there is

[1:26:44] a level of commitment to not precinct enrollment, but I really really think it's important

[1:26:51] I want to see that in writing, I think that university goes that to students, it's a city and I think the city goes that to its presence.

[1:26:58] That is something that I think needs to have.

[1:27:00] I also think, you know, if this and when you sign into action by a city council that, you know, so members of the Senate are gone, I'm on that side.

[1:27:10] I don't see how it can be extremely complicated that I think.

[1:27:13] and then when you, of this nature that's going to last five or maybe 10 years,

[1:27:18] these people know that people who are going to be in office when that is, you know.

[1:27:24] So, I think there's a lot of potential for you, I think it's important.

[1:27:27] Some of the things you should do, I would really urge, you know, to consider that.

[1:27:32] I think that's really important, I think, you know, I know there's a couple of other students here

[1:27:36] but I don't, I kind of think it's because we have students in this issue as well,

[1:27:40] so that's something that's really important to take into consideration.

[1:27:42] Okay. Thank you. So just one second, Sharon. I see you. And we have a few hands online

[1:27:49] that are all people who have already spoken. So I just want to provide an opportunity

[1:27:52] if anyone's here who has them had a chance to share a question or comment that would like

[1:27:57] to hear or online.

[1:28:02] Okay. So then we'll go back to Sharon and then we'll come back to the people online.

[1:28:06] And so first of all, I want to thank our class.

[1:28:10] I'm so glad that you're here.

[1:28:12] And I feel the students and I, you know,

[1:28:14] it's not, I'm not facilitating this,

[1:28:16] but to me it's really important to do

[1:28:18] with the student body, thanks about this along you.

[1:28:21] And this fact will be, as a resident,

[1:28:25] I'm in the long of the end,

[1:28:27] but I'm not enchanted with my university

[1:28:33] and I don't want to, um, this is why I'm living next.

[1:28:36] So, but that's not what I wanted the time for.

[1:28:40] So, but you didn't have a chance to see the comments that I had.

[1:28:44] But I had a number of specific comments about one of the sites that you're proposing for housing.

[1:28:51] And the one way the rugby field is, and I didn't know.

[1:28:56] So this is a specific question.

[1:29:00] So, I don't know what I am, but it's a war, but it's a sport that's love, so I wondered what

[1:29:09] happened to that, but I also wondered because I didn't expect that the year is a trans-cuted

[1:29:14] medicine.

[1:29:15] I wondered what was going to happen with the helicopter pan and getting patients to the hospital, and

[1:29:23] and heard nothing about that.

[1:29:24] The other piece that I think is really important

[1:29:27] is that on the other side,

[1:29:30] so if you build on that site,

[1:29:31] and it's not like I'm opposed to that,

[1:29:34] so I'm getting wrong,

[1:29:34] but if you build on that site,

[1:29:37] it can suffocate students' processes to Avenue.

[1:29:40] We already had traffic coming in from Los General

[1:29:44] from the interstate,

[1:29:46] and they're trying to access the hospital.

[1:29:49] Ambulances, everything.

[1:29:50] And so there's a direct shift road out a little way to should be established, but a lot of patients are employing to establish.

[1:29:58] If you've met students, come.

[1:30:00] I'm not saying that straight constantly. You put them at risk and you create a track of dam down through the

[1:30:06] industry. If you build on the other side, now, I know you and I have a conversation about

[1:30:13] parking lots, and I'm not trying to take any of your parking away, but if you build on the other side, and I was

[1:30:22] I don't know how far I went, but I told me to tell you about it, and I didn't need anything.

[1:30:27] But you feel on the other side, all the parking, keep the service parking.

[1:30:33] And you could have students there and be, they would have to cross the road.

[1:30:38] You wouldn't have that interference that I'm talking about.

[1:30:41] And you wouldn't have the issue with the health power plant, et cetera.

[1:30:45] So I wanted this university to get all considered that, not talking about, not creating housing, just talking about location.

[1:30:54] If you're not prepared to answer that tonight, that's fine, but I would like to understand why that wasn't one of the choices.

[1:31:03] Because I do think that what I'm looking at is cumulative impacts.

[1:31:07] And some people have talked about that a little bit, that it dates on by when projects with multiple projects occurred in close proximity within a couple of years of each other.

[1:31:19] They would look at cumulative impacts. It didn't matter if it was a possible UVM in the city doing it.

[1:31:24] They're low health impacts, like Bridget was talking about

[1:31:28] on sentennial woods, on the growth, on the infrastructure.

[1:31:33] And I'm not seeing that thought process.

[1:31:37] So I don't want us to create a scenario where when you actually

[1:31:42] go build, it implodes because there are so many factors

[1:31:46] that don't make it work.

[1:31:49] So I'm trying to be helpful on harmful in this conversation.

[1:31:52] But I really needed to get that out, so.

[1:31:55] So maybe starting here quickly, we have evaluated pretty much every experience of campus

[1:32:03] and trying to think about how it would be fun.

[1:32:06] And I won't tell you what's possible to go where you are, but there are stormwater issues

[1:32:11] and it's also maize of steam lines and electrical conduits and they're a blow ground that make

[1:32:17] building in that area is quite, quite complicated and much more sensitive.

[1:32:22] It doesn't mean, it's impossible, it doesn't mean that we would further consider it, but that's part of why we look for easier option.

[1:32:31] In terms of the health pad, as you know, I think UVM owns all the way on there, wrapping up the words, and there's a multiple open area right beside the roadway that goes out through there.

[1:32:46] where the health registry will be brought to on your VM land.

[1:32:50] And lastly, there is an alternative for us to be on the athletic campus.

[1:32:55] It does that.

[1:33:00] Okay.

[1:33:01] Okay. So we'll go back to.

[1:33:03] I'm sorry.

[1:33:04] I just want to clarify something I said.

[1:33:06] I said speaking on behalf of the U.S.

[1:33:08] I'm sure I'm not speaking on behalf of the U.S.

[1:33:10] student, but I do feel that U.S.

[1:33:12] student voices have been limited in this conversation.

[1:33:16] So I wanted to bring to the table, but I believe

[1:33:18] that I've heard from other students.

[1:33:20] And we also conducted a strategic plan survey

[1:33:24] last semester of what most important issues

[1:33:26] are to students.

[1:33:27] And it was a very accurate, I'm gonna give you exact data.

[1:33:31] So I think that this is something that I wanted

[1:33:33] to express by personally disseminating what I've heard

[1:33:35] from other students, but I'm sure that it's not

[1:33:38] consensus remote, so I just want to clarify that.

[1:33:40] Okay, yeah, okay, I'll go to you since you haven't spoken yet and then we'll go online.

[1:33:45] No, I'm not sure that this has been spoken to for a while, but there was recent information

[1:33:53] that the state water is off the supervenge of the water, yeah, we did, we talked about that.

[1:33:59] I just tried that on a little bit and similar to what you said about having a city councilor's

[1:34:06] vote about something where those candidates will be switched out a couple of months later.

[1:34:14] I think it's really important that the correct, the longer standing candidates are going to go

[1:34:20] correct, I could say, that until they see the auditors support, and I'll think of that nutrition

[1:34:27] on it. That's number one, the number two. I'm sure I think you can talk about this before, but

[1:34:33] But I think one thing that I haven't seen in that, I know that we can't really see it now because there's another concrete landscape where the potential buildings are, but I think that one thing that should really be protected is as much tree canopy and any sort of, maybe not necessarily green space.

[1:35:02] but I think having a understanding that

[1:35:06] Harlington is one of the fastest

[1:35:09] heating cities is really important to remember

[1:35:12] and that need to maintain some

[1:35:16] pretty solid climate building opportunities

[1:35:21] and I was just wondering if anybody

[1:35:24] could speak about that especially

[1:35:25] the area that you guys are dedicated

[1:35:29] to building environmentally

[1:35:32] the non-packed whole buildings that I can put that agreement to be with the city if there's city regulations that then make sure that new development has certain

[1:35:47] I guess. Sorry for that. The current city regulations require for instance of these being all electric building right off the bat. So in terms of that of the environmental piece.

[1:36:01] UVM is in building lead certified buildings for the last 18 years. So we've been that's what we always do. And all of these would be being certified as well.

[1:36:13] but we're looking at whether we can go further.

[1:36:16] Part of this is always about cost,

[1:36:18] the balancing act of can you keep the rates affordable

[1:36:21] and make it is environmentally down as you want,

[1:36:25] but they will be in service likely.

[1:36:30] So I also just want to acknowledge Emer came in

[1:36:33] and told us that the library closes in 10 minutes.

[1:36:36] So we have about seven minutes

[1:36:38] and I want to respect the library's last time.

[1:36:41] So I'll say we'll take one final question

[1:36:43] from Andrea. I saw your hand up first online and then we'll wrap up for tonight. So go ahead Andrea.

[1:36:52] Thank you so much. I feel lucky. I get the last last question. I actually have two and so you

[1:36:59] can choose which one to answer. But the the redstone lofts, I think I didn't see from the pictures.

[1:37:08] I don't know if it's possible to put those pictures of the areas but I didn't see it didn't seem

[1:37:13] to me to be an area being considered for expanding zoning and expanding, like I just think

[1:37:19] that's an area that really has already, has some private expanded building space. If those

[1:37:26] buildings were 14 stories, I would vote for yes for a 14 story red stone lofts building

[1:37:32] because it's already been started up there and it's also private, it's not a tax exempt building

[1:37:39] as far as I'm concerned. So is there kind of in this picture of expanding housing for UVM students?

[1:37:45] Are there private partnerships like the Redstone Lofts expansion areas being considered as part

[1:37:52] of this? So that's one question. And the other is I really like what some people have been saying

[1:37:58] about kind of more teeth in this MOU. Some of what I've heard, I think it's Mr. Kate, say or

[1:38:09] some like verbal limits that they're sort of wanting to vaguely stick to and I think

[1:38:16] what I would like to see as a way to keep those limits as close to what they are saying

[1:38:21] they want to is that if it exceeds those limits that there's made that the if the enrollment

[1:38:26] exceeds those numbers, then they will agree to two times the number of enrollment instead

[1:38:32] of 1.5. I just really don't feel like there's an incentive in this MOU to keep the enrollment

[1:38:38] numbers down. So if there's a way to sort of firmly incentivize the university to say if you

[1:38:51] exceed these 11,765 in a moment, then you're going to do two or three times the number of housing

[1:39:00] needs. So those are two of my comments and questions. Okay. Do you want to speak to them?

[1:39:07] The first question, all the projects that are currently under consideration are partnerships

[1:39:12] of one form or another with a private end in the case of the Catamount One City Center.

[1:39:20] That's with the United Kingdom development and in the case of the double-true projects

[1:39:25] that is with the current owners in the double-true hotel.

[1:39:32] And I think we'll just acknowledge and appreciate your comment, Andrea, about an idea that

[1:39:37] you shared about how to provide accountability as part of this. So with that I want to say thank you

[1:39:45] to everyone for being here, being online for the comments and questions. Thank you to UVM for

[1:39:51] joining us. There was a question in the online comments about where tonight's materials will be.

[1:39:58] We will post these to either civic clerk if you found tonight's meeting on the same platform where

[1:40:07] you can find all the City Boarding Commission meetings, and it will also be posted. Currently,

[1:40:11] we have a page about the work that we have been doing on the Trinity zoning. On the City's website,

[1:40:16] it will also be posted there, the slides from tonight's meeting. So again, thank you all,

[1:40:22] and since the library is closing remotely, I don't want to rush everyone, but just thank you for

[1:40:27] helping me look around.

UVM Housing MOU Information Session

Transcript