[0:05] is uh Deputy Reeve has a question regarding dust control.

[0:12] Number two item additional items. Number two, I have uh councelor Baker like to

[0:20] have a discussion on I'm going to call it Range Road 274 bridge, which is the

[0:25] bridge constructed at near near Pole Haven. And uh number three, I have 501

[0:31] continuing questions from councelor Nish and Murray had one item in close session

[0:40] uh regarding a small business tax break. Is that satisfactory, Murray?

[0:46] And I think that's all I had. If Is there anything else to be included?

[0:52] We have a motion to adopt Council Harris's move that we adopt the agenda

[0:57] as amended. Those in favor? Carried. Thank you.

[1:02] Next item is adoption of the minutes of our June 8th meeting.

[1:09] Councelor Nish. Councelor Nish has moved approval. Is

[1:13] any further discussion? Those in favor

[1:18] carried. Murray, I was just looking at those

[1:22] minutes and I had one question for business arising from the minutes. Was

[1:26] there any follow-up discussion regarding that private road concern at the

[1:30] Peterson Field Division?

[1:34] » Her back and said, uh, we're not going to we'll offer

[1:38] what we usually do, our policy, you know, we'll provide gravel, you can buy

[1:42] gravel, but we're not going to do the work. and she kind of got a little upset

[1:47] saying well you already wrote this and I said she asked what changed I said new

[1:50] council and she said okay >> so it it's it's been communicated where

[1:57] we're where we stand there >> good

[2:00] » any other items uh for business arising from the minutes

[2:08] » under item seven is there any unfinished business that we need to take care of

[2:12] before we go to our agenda items.

[2:18] Okay, we'll move on to uh item 8.1. At our last meeting, we we had some

[2:25] discussion regarding the self-contained breathing apparatuses

[2:30] uh for the Carson County Emergency Services, and there's a pretty

[2:33] significant cost. Looks like Murray has broken down

[2:38] the servicing cost of leasing versus paying all out at once. That's kind of

[2:44] what you've done, isn't it, Murray? >> Yeah. Basically, what money would we

[2:48] make or to make our money back if we uh we purchased up front and then we uh

[2:55] charged the town and uh the villages for their share of that over the next so

[3:01] many years. Um,

[3:05] not sure we want to go 10 years. It's a lot of years to write these off, but

[3:09] it's it's what it is. Crosswise, you know, I'm looking at $13,000 additional

[3:14] a year for each of us. Uh, if we go at one and a half%, it's $11,000.

[3:21] I did talk to Jeff and he indicated that maybe they had some reserve funds that

[3:27] they could put into this. So, I think my last option was I think I put down the

[3:33] very bottom if I get uh if I get the town to put about $82,000

[3:39] in, we put $82,000 in. We take 140 out of the contract from the

[3:46] Waterton Park. So, that'd be 70,000 this year. We do not have the contract for

[3:51] next year yet. We're assuming it will carry on and we're trying to get it to a

[3:55] five-year thing. But that basically if we did that we would be able to pay this

[3:59] off right away and then we would just do a s charge to the the hamlets for

[4:07] for a short time to cover some of that surplus or that what we put in the town

[4:13] and us put in. I think it was 82,500 from both of us up front. We still cover

[4:19] the rest of it but we take the money back from the contract. Get 70,000 in

[4:24] December. We wouldn't order these until December roughly and then pay for them

[4:29] in January. So, we would have probably most likely the contract set up well, we

[4:34] wouldn't have it set up until about February or March of next year like we

[4:37] did this year, but we would know the only withdrawal with that is about that

[4:42] 70,000 if we didn't get it next year. We'd just have to add it to the budget

[4:46] to cover off that. >> How long do these things last?

[4:50] » 20 years roughly. Uh we're also looking at Danny is also looking at maybe um

[4:56] getting the mass custom fitted for each firefighter and using casino money and

[5:01] if he does that then that will reduce our overall price a little bit for the

[5:06] purchase of these. >> Uh we did get

[5:09] » it would reduce >> it would reduce it because we'd use

[5:11] casino monies to cover some of that money

[5:15] » because these units cost besides the tanks I think they cost about $11,000 a

[5:19] piece. So, if they get him custom fitted, they're going to put out, let's

[5:22] say, 12,000, but he can use the casino money to cover that.

[5:28] » I don't know. He was just saying that he was looking at trying to reduce it by

[5:31] doing the the casino money. And maybe he can't. I He didn't bring that up.

[5:42] » Yeah. And that would be a discussion for I have no clue on that.

[5:46] » Yes. Can you predict the town has to use money to log in?

[5:52] » Well, they've got Yeah, they got close to 400,000 for their fire trucks just

[5:57] like we're putting money aside. So, they would just take some of that and they

[6:01] would still have to figure out how to do the fire trucks later on. But,

[6:04] » so if they're taking that out and we're putting ours in and we're going to and

[6:09] we're going to get paid back ours and they're not going to get their paid

[6:12] back. >> No, it's it's 300,000 total.

[6:14] » Yeah. So if they take their uh 80 >> 100,000 and we put 100 in that's our

[6:20] share >> and the other portion is coming from the

[6:23] the contract. So the fire department's paying for it

[6:28] we own them years. >> Uh well you'd have to release them or

[6:33] get new ones, right? >> Yes.

[6:37] » That's why they were last 20 years to me. It's a no-brainer. And these are

[6:44] some of my own questions which I think we already answered. So they're val

[6:48] they're good for 20 years. If we buy a brand new one, they're valid for 20

[6:53] years. >> Technically, yes, they're supposed to be

[6:55] 20 years. >> So if we lease them

[7:00] at the end of that three or five year lease, I guess that unit just goes back

[7:03] to them and we're still got no units, >> right?

[7:07] » You could buy them out or we're going to continue leasing them.

[7:10] » Okay. So we continue leasing them for 20 years. To me, it's a no-brainer to buy

[7:14] them on in my >> Sorry. Sorry. The lease is a lease to

[7:18] purchase, right? Sorry. Hey, that's we lease them for 25 years.

[7:24] » We're going to own them at the end of that time.

[7:27] » We're just using them as the bank. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that was my question,

[7:32] too. At the end of the lease, what happens? No. Then they're ours.

[7:38] » Yeah. Yeah. >> At the end, they're done. As far as I

[7:42] know, the paper didn't say anything about it was a fiveyear lease, but

[7:45] they're ours to own for the 20 years. >> 50 more years.

[7:50] » 50 more years. >> That's way different.

[7:52] » Yeah. This is what I'm trying to get. >> We're paying instead of borrowing money

[7:58] from the bank, we're borrowing it from from the

[8:01] » So, in reality, we're buying them, but we're going to pay for them in a

[8:05] five-year payment plan virtually then. >> Right.

[8:09] » Okay. That's no different than a whole different view, but

[8:14] » makes a little difference. >> Yeah, I was on the impression and

[8:19] » it was a rent only.

[8:22] » Yeah. No, my understanding is Yeah. There's the, you know, we're going to

[8:25] pay that much more $23,000 in interest or 38 if we lease it. The thing is we

[8:31] still have to put it on our requisitions which we're going to have a hard time

[8:35] getting that money out of the towns agreeing to it or the villages. Ken, my

[8:39] other question, um,

[8:44] the servicing, don't they have to be serviced whether

[8:47] we buy them or lease them? >> Is that is that the interest?

[8:50] » I mean, is that a >> the servicing cost?

[8:53] » Yeah, >> that's the interest.

[8:54] » Oh, that's a or service cost? >> I thought I thought it was a maintenance

[8:58] of some sort to the unit. >> No, it's an interest

[9:05] » something like that. Yeah, but no, sorry. Servicing cost really is

[9:10] » interest cost for the time it was. >> Okay, that gives me a different feel.

[9:15] » No, sorry. I made the wrong term interest cost.

[9:19] » So, we're paying 109 in in principle. We're paying $23,000

[9:24] interest on that. Well, now that chang

[9:33] » Well, the problem though is going back to here, we're paying interest. If

[9:38] you're paying >> if we're paying our requisitions at

[9:41] $67,000 a year,

[9:44] » plus all a sudden we got to take this 305 and divide it by

[9:50] over five years.

[9:54] Let's just say it's >> $32,000.

[9:58] $32,000 on top of our requisition for five years. The town has to agree to, we

[10:02] have to agree to, and the villages have to agree to.

[10:06] » What are we making on the money in the bank interest on it compared to like on

[10:12] the other side? >> If we're taking 140 or whatnot out of

[10:16] the bank and we're making interest on it now, is it going to be a wash on doing a

[10:20] lease? Uh well I'm guess I'm more worried about will the town agree to for

[10:25] us you've got the money in the bank you can easily figure that out if we send an

[10:29] invoice to the town for 67 plus 35 are they going to b at that and question

[10:36] why >> pay for one way or another

[10:40] » well so technically yeah but the board that sits on there has to really decide

[10:46] you know have their council take it back to do that

[10:48] » we You're looking at January. You got a few

[10:52] months. >> Yeah, we got a few months. Yeah.

[10:58] » Pay for one. >> Right. Right.

[11:12] » Pay more in interest. >> Uh

[11:16] we When grandfather le they lease theirs

[11:21] » lease to own. >> Yeah.

[11:23] » And they >> and they're taking out their budget

[11:25] money to pay. Is that right? We're not paying anything towards our these air

[11:31] packs. >> No, it'd be all be part of the

[11:34] » We're taking all of the money that we're requisition.

[11:39] » Yeah. >> But you're doing it

[11:40] » and all the lease. But you're doing it smart 10 at a time at a smaller amount

[11:47] » so that you can It's not a big hit. >> It's not a big hit,

[11:52] » I guess.

[11:56] » Well, the problem is the ones he has out of 2027, there's no more repair parts

[11:59] for him. That's why he's The tanks are still good and the devices are good, but

[12:04] you can't certify them that they're Yeah. So you have to buy the whole

[12:10] complete package unit. >> You have to buy a complete package unit.

[12:14] » So the way I'm seeing this and this these

[12:19] are rounded figures. I took if it's 15,000 each. 15,000 and whatever

[12:24] dollars. But anyway, it's basically 15,000 each unit.

[12:28] » Y 20 of them. That's 300,000. And if you go a three-year lease at 109,000

[12:34] a year, you're paying 28,000 in interest in that 3 years. And if you go over a

[12:39] 5year lease, you're paying 45,000 in interest.

[12:43] » Correct. Still looks to me like you're better off

[12:48] to put the money and buy it. Well, if we upon if they're going to give a $7,000

[12:53] contract a year, they can take a 5year lease payment

[12:57] payment out of their $70,000 that they're going to get from the park

[13:02] every year. And then maybe only we got to pay the service

[13:07] would only have $38,000 every year. >> Well, you can do it that way as long as

[13:15] we get the contracts for the full. >> We got it this year for sure. And we're

[13:19] estimating, he's estimating about 70,000 or about an $80,000 surplus this year.

[13:24] So we're thinking about taking 70 uh this year and hopefully be the same

[13:29] for next year. You know, we technically for three years, five years, we could do

[13:33] that if we get the funds there. It's really coming down to pulling money out

[13:38] our reserves. If we pull money out of our reserves, like you said, are we

[13:41] going to lose money? And that's why I was trying to get it back that everybody

[13:46] would have to pay a little extra so that in the end we would county would have a

[13:50] surplus to cover that interest. Just sad that all of them aren't like

[13:56] we're doing them all at once in a graph. We do a few gradually. We gradually

[14:03] replace them out over time. But now the the request is to do how many units?

[14:07] » 20. >> 20. That's a huge expense. Well, and I

[14:09] got to say for Danny's side, he did bring that up to the board. I believe he

[14:13] told me for the last couple years, but because they were still working, no one

[14:17] » and the worst part is in here same thing to us.

[14:22] » Yeah. And that's why I recommended Danny, we put away

[14:26] on the reserve, every budget, you're putting whatever $13,000

[14:31] for that in our reserves or in the fire department's

[14:36] reserves. They're going to be technically it'd be ours now, but we're

[14:38] collecting it from all of us. So that instead of a firet truck, we can go to

[14:43] these tanks as well. >> Maria, I think I don't know. I'm just

[14:47] thinking out loud here. Can you go back to Jeff and find out because we're the

[14:52] Carson County and the town of Grath are the ones that are going to be paying the

[14:55] most. >> Yeah.

[14:55] » Can you just just discover some possibilities again?

[15:01] Clarify it some more and we don't have to make a decision on this right now.

[15:04] No, he said we went on room till December

[15:07] » and uh Wayne brought up a good point too uh that they're they're different in in

[15:13] a in the in the way that they get they have that contract. They have more money

[15:16] at their disposal, right? And they can maybe factor that into the equation

[15:24] on how they're paid for.

[15:30] You got how many?

[15:35] » Got 20 guys that go into a fire at the same time.

[15:39] » You don't typically, but you have and then you have guys ready to go back

[15:45] in like you have to have enough to be able to recycle them.

[15:49] » And this does go some will go out to Glenwood Hills and here. So, it's not

[15:54] like it's all 20 are stocked here. >> We have

[15:59] for us, but two guys wear it.

[16:10] » I guess the one thing that I'm not clear totally in my mind, the way I see it,

[16:15] whether we buy them or lease them, the money's got to come be coming in to pay

[16:20] for it one way or another. So, you know, does the requisition change

[16:27] just because we bought or leased? Not the price of the units, but I guess

[16:33] what I was looking at, I was trying to figure out how to get it so that the

[16:37] town and the villages wouldn't be bcking that the county is all a sudden going to

[16:42] add $13,000 to their bill. >> Well, but one way or another, it's

[16:48] » Yeah, they got to pay their share regardless. Well, that's true. No, I

[16:52] that's true. >> You know, that's why I don't quite get

[16:55] that >> that it should depend whether we bought

[16:58] or whether we leased as far as the charges to the

[17:02] » So, it's whether we want to

[17:07] find that's what that's the two that's what it comes down to, right?

[17:12] And that's what I took from last time is instead of paying 23,000 should we

[17:17] collect 13,000 charging it to the towns and the

[17:21] villages and we pay our 13,000. But >> this first Thursday of July, is that

[17:27] your first meeting for the Carson emergency service? I

[17:31] » think they're off the summer.

[17:36] » Well, I don't know if

[17:46] We don't have problem. I think this is more administration but should know how

[17:51] » I think >> how

[17:54] are we do we want to pull it out or sort of

[18:00] » when we didn't we didn't have that bulk of money

[18:03] » our department so that's why we least and did 555

[18:08] so that we have didn't have a big outlay

[18:13] didn't go to anybody >> so if the town gives us their money. We

[18:18] take our We're each only pulling out $82,000

[18:21] and then we're using the reserves from or the casino not casino money.

[18:26] » So, we have we have money in our prior reserve now for

[18:31] » Yep. We're putting $40,000 $40,000 $60,000 a year into the

[18:37] reserves. 44 Oh, sorry. We're putting 40 for each

[18:42] Kurtster McGrath and 20 for Glenwood Hills. So, we've got we got money in

[18:48] there. We don't have enough to buy a truck.

[18:51] » That's just that's going to make it so the truck's that much further away.

[18:55] » That's right. >> Exactly.

[18:57] » That's right.

[19:04] » Keeps going up. >> We can bring it back with some more

[19:09] numbers. You think you need your next

[19:26] whole county building

[19:35] and you're looking at I think the last pricing we got to somewhere

[19:41] between800 and a million dollars per fire truck similar to the one that we

[19:46] purchased a couple years ago that was 560.

[19:50] So, you know, I mean, since the whole coast,

[19:55] people have gone. So, they think they can charge whatever they want for

[19:58] anything. And so we're finding that

[20:04] you know even and even going to you know the county has done some investigation

[20:12] into different options for charge truck and acres ones that we've been getting

[20:17] out of Manitoba cuz they're customs there but even even a

[20:27] production line fire is in the body. Um

[20:36] the breathing after we don't have them and we can't

[20:41] successfully do fire and rescue. So you know I mean

[20:45] it's kind of a something that we we need to be able to fund one way or another.

[20:53] I want to leave our our reserves in place and go with the least and have the

[21:00] contract more and cover it for as much as they can

[21:06] and I guess we'll have to increase the requisitions to other people

[21:14] this time or last time that there would be a that there could be a requisition

[21:18] for uh these areas

[21:22] uh to be released. So responsible. >> Well, I would say that we would increase

[21:29] the requisitions by so much to cover for this. So in my

[21:35] calculations, the 13,000 is what we would cover to cover our share of it and

[21:40] the villages would have that smaller amount. The town would have the same

[21:43] amount. >> That would be an increase.

[21:48] » You mean just this area? So it just be

[21:53] » yeah it'd be us that area that have the increase in requisition which bring it

[21:59] up it bring it up just shy just over what we were requisition town of McGrath

[22:03] right now or we're being requisitioned I think 67 and McGrath is getting 70

[22:10] 8 from us

[22:13] but doesn't that requisition need to go up regardless of fund lease

[22:19] Yes. >> You know, so to me that's kind of a

[22:23] not a part of the equation or a part of the decision that funding or that

[22:28] money's got to be there. And I can't imagine that we could borrow money.

[22:35] I can't imagine that the money we have in the bank will make more interest than

[22:39] to go borrow it. >> Yeah. The borrow.

[22:44] you want to help lay that money and not have it if you need it for something on

[22:48] the other end. >> There's a convenience factor there.

[22:51] » So, what does the You know, they're saying it's going to cost usund

[22:57] 99,000 on a three-year lease, right?

[23:05] » Annual lease payment, huh? >> Annual lease payment be 109 for three

[23:09] years total. Yeah, it's a contract bringing them in $70,000 at least

[23:18] roughly >> 30

[23:20] » $40,000 to cover off. Right. >> Right.

[23:23] » So that would be Is that where you're getting your $13,000

[23:29] increase in our requisition or >> Yeah. I'm taking the

[23:34] uh Yeah. So I'm figuring it on interest rates of 10 years and 3.5% interest. No,

[23:43] I didn't. No, that was this is a strictly if we

[23:47] » leased >> leased. No, if we covered the cost

[23:50] » we financed it, >> what would we be charging ourselves and

[23:54] the towns and villages to cover that interest that we would have to pay? So,

[23:59] at $13,000, that would generate us uh where's my spreadsheet? Sorry. Um

[24:08] anyway, that would generate us about $23,000 worth of income for ourselves, I

[24:13] think. I think I put it in there somewhere, didn't I?

[24:17] » But that's over 10 years. >> That's over 10 years.

[24:20] » Yeah. And what are we what are we making on our money now? Uh it varies between

[24:25] what bond or stock we're in or if it's just in the bank. Yeah, we will not we

[24:30] will be cheaper to use our own money than to borrow it, but we won't have it

[24:35] available. Now, saying that we have we're not that's not a big concern for

[24:40] $300,000. >> Uh yeah, I bet you it's what did that

[24:44] say? 5% on that lease. We're probably at two and a half, maybe three. Yeah.

[24:52] I don't know exactly.

[25:11] » Yeah,

[25:14] » I'm fine with that.

[25:18] » Sounds like a good idea. Um, we'll just move this discussion to uh

[25:28] item 14.

[25:37] Okay. Can we move on then for now? We'll move on to uh 8.2.

[25:45] Um, there's a lot of history involved with this uh request,

[25:51] Marie. I didn't realize it had gone back 34 years, but that's quite some time.

[25:57] » Yeah. Um, apologize. I thought I added the uh original contract in here, but I

[26:03] guess I didn't. But yeah, back in 34 years, uh, council

[26:08] made a deal at the time that they would put dust compression on, plus they paid

[26:12] for the, um, the material, uh, the loss of crop and a few things and the last

[26:19] was written in their um, dust control when needed.

[26:26] Now, we've been doing it for 34 years. >> Have we really been doing it every year?

[26:30] » I don't think we've done it every year. I think for the last five to 10 years,

[26:34] yes, >> I was not aware of that, but anyway.

[26:38] » Yeah. Um, when we do our the last few dust programs, we've been definitely

[26:42] doing it. Um, when we didn't do any dust control, I don't know if we did anything

[26:48] special for them. Um, so anyway, they wanted to they asked Matt about it. Matt

[26:55] asked me and I says, "Well, it's kind of old. I think we should just there should

[26:59] be a sunset clause. Let's tell them right up front it's going to be this is

[27:02] the last time and then in the future we're not going to do it.

[27:06] » Well, and the contract would have made

[27:11] » Yeah. It's the father's name that's on there.

[27:14] » Yeah. It's it's dad and mom. That rateayer called me and I went up and

[27:19] yeah, he showed me the contract that he had dug up 1992.

[27:24] Uh, >> so my thought was um,

[27:30] » and I said just what I said and then councelor Bevans asked me to bring it

[27:34] back. >> Bring it here. And I mean, I didn't tell

[27:37] him what I honestly felt and thought. I I'd play it a little diplomatic and

[27:42] » we'll show you where it's at. get backing. But uh

[27:48] to me it's should be

[27:54] him. It was his dad and mom. So to me it's not a valid deal anymore. Period.

[27:59] So this is the place the dirt I'm not sure

[28:03] was taken over here somewhere. >> And I'm not sure. Councelor Beavenans,

[28:08] have you been out there? Do we cover the whole thing all the way past here? I

[28:12] don't think we do anything >> dust control. No, it was just

[28:15] » right around >> from what Matt said. Yeah. 200 meters on

[28:18] the west right there where you're running.

[28:20] » Yeah. >> And yeah, it's busier road now, but at

[28:24] the same time, every other citizen in the council county

[28:30] more or less pays their their oil unless uh council designated as a hight traffic

[28:35] area or we have a gravel route on there and we should. So,

[28:39] » is this just east of left? Is that that just that

[28:42] » east of left? >> Uh yeah, it's just

[28:44] » just a cardstone to the west >> maybe three two three miles west of

[28:49] town. >> I think if this is your area of the

[28:52] ground, you have the opportunity if you feel the need to work with Matt if if

[28:56] it's needed there. >> That's you could lay a little bit there

[29:00] if you wish. But to carry forward year after year after year is

[29:05] I think we're probably done, right? my own feeling if he's not willing to

[29:10] contribute why should we you know I mean why should we give it to him free

[29:18] well I think there's a recommendation here that we uh

[29:23] your exact train of thought is what's being uh sought here right

[29:31] » well unless you the decisions we've made we've made that

[29:35] decision administration that we're not going to honor it next year.

[29:39] » If council deems they don't hold that. >> So unless we're going to change,

[29:47] we don't need >> right.

[29:50] » We need to file it. >> Yeah, I just file it.

[30:00] » Okay, that's a good way of processing this. Uh

[30:07] motion to file. Thank you. Any further discussion? Those in favor?

[30:13] » In doing so, then we've just upheld the administration's decision.

[30:17] Yep.

[30:21] » Okay. The next one is uh

[30:26] an update to the ICF. This is another close session item. No intermunicipal I

[30:33] mean or do you feel you want to leave it out in this open domain

[30:38] » would be close session if you had more arguments if you want to go into more

[30:46] » discussion if it seems fair to you then the motion

[30:49] » this is a modest increase when I was reading this um this is an increase of

[30:56] 200 every year for how long like >> well this is the first increase and if

[31:02] it ever happened again it would be 5 years. The reason they're increasing

[31:05] this the 2,000 is because of their spray park. So they've got to justify to us

[31:10] why they have to what the cost should be instead of uh determining that they just

[31:17] said okay $2,000 for the water park which seems fair. Um if the next year in

[31:23] five years that comes up and they want another 2,000 I think at that time you

[31:26] need to say what what's your water cost? Have you got your meters? Have you all

[31:31] this stuff? Because they should be justifying what they're paying and then

[31:36] doing that. >> It's just five year agreement.

[31:38] » This is just we've already signed the five-year agreement bill. This would be

[31:41] a 5-year agreement under the ICO. >> Okay. Mr. Chairman, I will move this

[31:46] fiveyear agreement.

[31:52] that was outlined in our agenda packet recommendation.

[31:56] » So that figure for the next five years

[32:03] » and I will make sure it doesn't say in this paper but I'll read the old

[32:07] contract >> because I think it's a fiveyear setup as

[32:10] a fiveyear and can be renewed for five years. So I'll just

[32:14] » Yeah. Yeah. So maybe I'll put a clause in here that just says this will

[32:26] » I guess I'm a little ignorant. They got a spray park out there

[32:33] cost

[32:40] » used quite a bit. Is it heavily used? Any questions for

[32:45] Matt on that? >> That should be nice.

[32:49] » No, we'll we'll vote on this and >> it's clear here. There's the dollar

[32:56] figure is updated for five years. Those failing

[33:01] carried Matt, we just had a discussion regarding

[33:05] dust control uh on Range Road 261.

[33:12] » Yeah. Um, we don't really need to discuss it more.

[33:17] We're we upheld the decision that you guys made to uh kind of wean ourselves

[33:23] off of what's been happening, right? >> Over the last 3, four years.

[33:31] » So, the We agree with it. We agree with it. So,

[33:34] » the one question I asked was, have you been doing it every year for the last

[33:38] » No.

[33:41] » Oh, okay. done this before.

[33:44] » Not here. >> I'm lying because I thought we've done

[33:47] this every year in the last five years or so.

[33:50] » Are you changing? >> Yeah.

[33:55] » Okay. Never mind. What I told him? >> Yeah. I didn't think so, but I wasn't

[34:00] sure. >> Before we Anyway, this year he's going

[34:05] to get it, right? >> Yeah. Get this year. He had told me that

[34:20] » 92 was that

[34:27] » bottom line is that >> no I remember my he was talking like I

[34:33] should know all about it. I finally had to tell him I was 11.

[34:41] But yeah, that's why I remember. >> Bottom line is that agreement is doesn't

[34:46] carry on forever. >> No, like I I can't see that thing.

[34:52] » Not a Yeah, it's not a reasonable request.

[34:56] Okay. Well, that's good. Um, our next topic is uh the Spring Culie gun range.

[35:03] After the last council meeting, I I sent you guys a couple pictures of the flood.

[35:07] Did you go out there yourself, Murray? >> No, but one of these two out there.

[35:12] » Yeah, there's a obvious lowlying spot. So, that would be exactly where people

[35:17] would park and and probably a possible building.

[35:22] » Yeah.

[35:27] I think that's the building

[35:34] right there. >> Yes.

[35:36] » So, where we have >> I guess

[35:45] it doesn't go over the river, the bank there. So, this is all drainage going

[35:49] into that spot from above.

[35:55] I'm not I'm not worried about this in our reality. Um yeah, you're going to

[35:59] have big grades and it's going to flood out there every once in a while and

[36:03] you're we're going to have to deal with it. We're going to have to design the

[36:06] buildings that

[36:10] » um but we haven't to see that and we can do

[36:17] some things to make mate it so it doesn't come up as much. There's nothing

[36:22] we can do to stop it. Um the big thing is the old plan right

[36:28] » how how deep is that pond there would you know or guess

[36:34] foot two foot three foot I mean the water

[36:37] » no >> oh like water

[36:39] » yeah the water that's standing there how deep is it

[36:42] oh just

[36:54] But this this is all.

[36:58] Um originally we had this the short range here

[37:04] and we were going to push up some of the ground here and change things to make it

[37:09] so you could do all the shorter ranges. Um we're actually thinking we shouldn't

[37:14] do that. Um All of that stuff basically will be taken away and not do any of

[37:20] that because all the drainage is coming down from here and come up there.

[37:27] So if we do that then we got to go for this water to go.

[37:32] But with this burn here we can move it go this way a bit

[37:37] » and then it still might come back. But, you know, that that'll be

[37:42] dependent. And so, we're actually recommending get rid of that all of

[37:47] that. Um, and possibly changing it to a new location. Um, we're go to the next

[37:54] one. >> You also have one more drainage kind of

[37:58] to the northeast there where you're looking to. I think

[38:01] » my my over here. My first question in seeing that water in that previous slide

[38:08] is it possible to drain it, cut it to so it'll go to the river.

[38:15] Well, that's why I wonder how much there, you know,

[38:31] » I was under the impression that that that the river bank overflow, but what

[38:35] you're saying is that's just natural drainage down and it puddled there.

[38:39] » I thought I thought thought the river came over, but it didn't. You can kind

[38:43] of see there's already still grass up here.

[38:51] » Those trees are

[38:58] » I've never been there. Somewhere's down >> just below Spring Valley.

[39:08] It's kind of a good

[39:13] the new side.

[39:19] » Yeah. So, this stays kind of the same. I should a little bit um but that wouldn't

[39:24] make that doesn't make huge difference. We still have room to do like a 100 to

[39:29] 150 meter short range here. >> Yeah.

[39:32] » Um for your 22s and all that kind of stuff. Um, and then you have the

[39:36] possibility we can move stuff over to the other side of the of the things. The

[39:42] problem is is that this is kind of a hill. Um, so if we were going to do

[39:46] that, we may have to dig down. It might hold water. Um,

[39:53] but it's all this is all higher. It's a I'd say six seven ft higher than

[40:00] where. So we could dig down five

[40:06] and probably not get the bottom line where the goal is to not dig down any

[40:18] target 25 100 ft whatever in the long range.

[40:28] I mean, if someone's someone shooting you here, you're not going to shoot the

[40:32] whole

[40:38] » Well, that's a big >> Yeah.

[40:39] » Okay. So, you could have two groups in there.

[40:42] » Yeah. Yeah. Both sides of this. These are both big birds.

[40:47] » Yeah. So, yeah.

[40:53] » Where's the material for the burns coming from?

[40:57] Uh that is not a question that you're going to answer.

[41:09] » Finding dirt's the biggest problem right now.

[41:12] » The one problem in that solution is the least or at least didn't extend out this

[41:18] way that much. It was more just to cover this area here. This we control along

[41:26] the the old river bed and we had to lease some of the land

[41:32] here. That's why we paid them 7,000 bucks a year. So, we'd have to talk to

[41:36] them about >> additional.

[41:39] » Yeah. And we weren't ever going to use that road going around or anything like

[41:43] that. That's also something that would be additional

[41:45] » because this would be nicer actually pull it back down so it's in this area

[41:50] but we're uh you're not walking and driving all

[41:55] the way down here to keep it all kind of centered. Guess if we're underneath this

[42:00] maybe we could talk to about shooting this way or something. But

[42:05] » does anyone know what it looks like right now? Like we had this major

[42:10] rainfall a week or two ago. It's clear. >> I was down there.

[42:14] » Is it clear? Yeah. >> So, it dissipates fairly fairly quickly.

[42:19] » Yeah. >> Yeah. I I went down there a couple weeks

[42:24] ago before I did all this and walked it all and

[42:27] » So, you could drive down there? >> Oh, yeah.

[42:29] » Wow. That's That's uh good to know because the road

[42:35] was covered by water, right? Uh >> the bottom part of

[42:43] Yeah, I don't think that's going to be a common occurrence

[42:47] um of it doing that, >> but you know, how many of those have

[42:52] ever >> Yeah. And it dissipated so fast that you

[42:57] know within I would say within a week and a half I was there and it was gone.

[43:02] Like all the water was gone. >> So it dissipates pretty quick.

[43:07] » I agree with Dennis though. If there's ever a structure you built out of

[43:10] concrete blocks just you know what I mean the low levels.

[43:18] Yeah. The the other thing you could do is we could move the short ranges up

[43:24] towards where the road is where we're shooting for the long range. Um but then

[43:28] we'd have to move the road around. So cuz you you can't you know you can't

[43:35] drive through the the ranges or anything like you want to separate those. That's

[43:39] why I put them down there is so we didn't have to move the road.

[43:44] » So do you have an original cost versus what it would cost if we made these

[43:48] changes? >> Uh we don't have a cost in at all.

[43:55] » Um it it was all going to be in kind work. Matt was gonna hit. He's just

[44:00] joyous to be able to do this. Um, and it's going to be as we have time to get

[44:06] out there. Our biggest issue is dirt and getting the dirt from the top to the

[44:11] bottom. If that's going to be the issue, too,

[44:14] » the into the relation to the road, move there.

[44:19] It might be easier to cut off the top of the hill, move the road, shorten the

[44:22] road up, put everything up. >> Yeah. Is that just like a service road?

[44:29] » Just

[44:33] how much dirt are you talking need for these?

[44:36] » BMS are 3 m 3 to 5 m high. >> They're big.

[44:41] » So a total of roughly 80.

[44:45] » There's a lot of

[44:48] » Yeah. The benefit. >> Yeah. The benefit is it's already um

[44:54] about seven feet, >> right? So where where we're shooting the

[44:59] range and where the top of the hill is now, it's already seven feet. So um like

[45:05] you just we just have to build it up the extra amount

[45:10] » in theory. >> I understand.

[45:13] » Yeah, that's what I said in theory. Yeah. Yeah. I I guess the thing I'd

[45:19] rather see the short range down instead of somebody walking down those

[45:24] sides and then

[45:27] move the reg. >> Yeah.

[45:31] » Yeah. Oh, >> you're down there with

[45:35] » that is supposed to be just a dirt type

[45:42] » you would have to go back and talk to the hood rights about all this

[45:46] » about changing

[45:50] » I don't know the check >> when I when I was out there he's like

[45:55] go look at your range you want you want to go fishing instead

[46:01] And I and I went down there and I took a picture. I'm like, "Wow, it's it's good

[46:05] that we're, you know, we haven't really started 100% on this. It's good that we

[46:12] that this happened. Now we can kind of think about future events, right? It's

[46:18] not a not a bad thing that we haven't rolled with this, you know,

[46:22] » right now." So with with this proposed or thought change of plan, does that

[46:29] affect the colony somehow that we've got to

[46:33] involve them or to get their permission? >> Well, we do because we have a lease.

[46:38] » Yeah. >> For the land, right? This what what is

[46:40] outside of >> all.

[46:42] » It's all right. Land. >> Um Yeah. And

[46:49] they just use it for their sheep. So they're not

[46:53] » like Yeah.

[46:59] » on the road going down. Control the road going down.

[47:02] » It's been a long time. >> Well, there's been a gun range there for

[47:06] a long time, but hasn't been used for some time.

[47:09] » We'll have to keep continuing to talk about the bills here and work this out.

[47:14] I don't know what to how to proceed right now other than

[47:19] » this has come up with the best >> workable solution.

[47:33] I don't know where it is. Go right through the

[47:37] » Spring Valley.

[47:42] highly anticipated by people in the community though there had several

[47:47] people ask me about when the gun range is going to be functional

[47:52] not anytime real soon but we're working on it

[47:58] I'd have to talk to George and just let us have a little bit more land or

[48:04] maybe the

[48:06] » the big thing is we want to keep the shooting at the same direction y

[48:09] » because if you go north, then you might have to get another letter from the

[48:14] reserve and >> Yeah.

[48:21] figure out how much extra.

[48:26] » So, I've never been there and don't have a picture. Where's the Where's the

[48:30] river? Where's the reserve? >> Oh, the red's the river. Okay.

[48:40] that direction this >> and you go right through the colony to

[48:45] get to it.

[48:48] » The the road zigzagging down is is mad. It's kind of It's questionable. It's not

[48:56] the greatest. >> It's actually a little bit

[49:00] » and we did work to it while that's been

[49:10] eight years. Everything in my box, eight years.

[49:15] Um, yeah, probably within eight years ago, we proved it up.

[49:21] » Tried something because it's on a slope and the slope can move.

[49:25] » Y, >> it's not perfectly stable.

[49:29] » Full slope with the grain, the runoff

[49:34] » coming right onto the road. Right. It's coming right onto the road. If I

[49:38] remember, >> we do do have a little bit of a deal. I

[49:42] haven't looked lately, but we did have a ditch that established a little bit on

[49:46] the inside of the that location, but yeah, it's

[49:54] interesting at that. >> Okay. Well, thanks for bringing in uh

[49:59] possibilities to us. this is going to continue this discussion

[50:02] » if you're all right with changing the location or do you want us to I mean

[50:07] small shooting ranges but I guess we talk about rates and see if we can bring

[50:12] it up and see how much they allow us to >> Yeah. So it's either we do that or we

[50:17] just do the long range and then the 100 meter 150 meter range on the side and

[50:23] then use that for you know your 22s and your handguns like your small calibers.

[50:28] So I think you talk to them a deal and then we can then obviously you know we

[50:35] have to go right. >> Yeah.

[50:36] » So yeah you just keep this one is what you're saying

[50:39] » just keep that one and just use that one. That's your small caliber range. So

[50:42] you have a long range and then you have small caliber range.

[50:46] » But I mean it's worth throwing it out there.

[50:53] » Yeah. I would agree with that that we should at least approach and talk to

[50:57] them. >> Yeah.

[50:58] » See if there's an option or not. >> Yeah.

[51:01] » Yeah. I I think it depends on your outlook of what you want this to be.

[51:05] Like if you want the RCMP coming here to use it, then they're going to want, you

[51:10] know, the handgun range. >> Oh,

[51:14] a lot of they're placing

[51:17] » the police. Yeah, if you want cowboy shooting stuff,

[51:22] » you probably want the the short range as well.

[51:26] » I know there's there's a real desire to have this.

[51:32] » Yeah, more so. >> Yeah, it all depends on how much you

[51:35] want, right? So, you could do shoot pistols at your at your 100 meter range

[51:39] just fine, right? It's just >> can you run a competition there? I don't

[51:44] know. It's going to come down to if they're

[51:49] agreeable here,

[51:53] » what they what they agree to, right? If we know what it is,

[51:59] » proceed >> because they're pretty workable. Those

[52:02] guys out there, they're they seem to

[52:13] » Yeah.

[52:19] » Yeah. I can do a new drawing for you when you talk to

[52:22] » Yeah. You know, I'll probably wait till we get that check form and we need to go

[52:27] out.

[52:33] I taste the beer. >> Yeah.

[52:39] » Okay, good. We can move on. Thanks for that update.

[52:45] A work in progress is what we consider this range, but eventually we will have

[52:50] a facility. >> Thank you. Thanks.

[52:54] moved over from this side.

[53:11] » Thanks, Matt. >> Yeah,

[53:12] » I was reading over this next one, 9.1. This is in Councelor Harris's area,

[53:17] right off Township Road 54. Looks like a couple of parcels are wanted to be

[53:23] created here for future homes. Am I assuming suns or

[53:28] » one extra sun? Yeah.

[53:34] » Okay. We can uh consider first reading on this proposed bylaw, which will be a

[53:40] reasonzoning. Is that right, Joe? >> Yeah. So before we make a decision on

[53:44] that, I just did want to mention um so the the portion of this zoning bylaw is

[53:51] just the 10 acres um that kind of is just south of the

[53:56] panhandle there. Um that portion of it is going to be the reszone. The rest of

[54:02] it would stay is proposed to stay as agriculture at 62 acres. Um

[54:10] it's below that threshold of 70 acres of that we normally have for a um but we've

[54:16] kind of in in past between that 60 and 70 acres a lot of times we do waivers

[54:22] for those. We just did one this morning um of a waiver under 70 acres. Um

[54:29] or we can make him reszone that to real small holdings. um either or it doesn't

[54:34] make a huge difference development wise or anything else. Uh it

[54:39] just depends on policy wise at the time of the subdivision. Um if this goes

[54:44] forward and you uh and the subdivision comes forward, you'd have to give a

[54:48] waiver for that 61 acres. Um because it's below the 70 acre threshold.

[54:57] panhandle.

[55:02] » Oh, yeah. Well, it's a 20 it's a 20 meter parcel that's included in the

[55:07] north portion of it in the a land. >> That's the access for the for the a

[55:13] land. Um but it is there for the purpose of development in future as a road to

[55:20] get to the back end. >> So, but it's part the title is part

[55:24] » of the aglet. Yeah.

[55:29] » No. Well, yeah. Rod needs an easement >> here

[55:37] through there. >> But the new proposal will have

[55:42] this this for 70 acres in the back, right?

[55:45] » Yeah. This is just about 70 acres in the back,

[55:48] » right? Yeah. Yeah, >> this would have to have an easement.

[55:51] » This gets split into splitting this into two.

[55:55] » So it'll be an acres. >> Yeah.

[55:59] » Um and then Rod's house will be at one.

[56:06] » I didn't understand. >> Well, the checker's right. So right now

[56:08] there's this 3acre parcel >> and then there's this agriculture parcel

[56:14] » that's 71 acres, >> right? Um we have to this is already

[56:18] resone single. So we have to resone this portion of it.

[56:23] » Okay.

[56:31] » So they still have the same.

[56:37] » So each of those plots will be seven eight acres.

[56:41] » Yeah. Six and a half and seven acres. Okay.

[56:50] » Yeah.

[56:53] Access >> on the road

[56:56] » to the to 54. Will he be able to >> He'll need a new access on 54.

[57:00] » He'll have access 54. >> Yeah.

[57:04] » All right. >> So, is what you're saying?

[57:07] » It's It's just confusing because we're we're only looking at the 71 acre

[57:11] parcel, not the three. But the three at the time the subdivision is all a part

[57:15] of it. So >> So what Joe what you're saying is in the

[57:18] the future subdivision if it goes through it's going to be two long

[57:24] » two long lot one of these. >> Yeah. But basically that the hashed and

[57:30] then rods three acres and split down the middle. Yeah.

[57:35] » Yeah. >> Yeah. with a little 20 meter

[57:39] um tail from the agriculture parcel >> right there on the far west

[57:43] » very west got >> which is access legal access to the

[57:48] agriculture parcel and also future road when that north park gets

[57:55] subdivided because it's right by the town it eventually will get subdivided

[58:00] » Wayne are you willing to move close meeting yes motion to read

[58:10] doesn't have to be part of the motion. Um it's just it's just a warning when it

[58:14] comes to subdivision. You'd have to provide a

[58:18] » Yeah. Yeah. Or we can just make them do real

[58:23] small holdings at the same time. And again, it doesn't make a difference at

[58:30] 61 acres. We we do it both ways. Yeah.

[58:37] » Public hearing to be held. >> Uh yeah, this one is in August.

[58:46] » August second Monday >> August 10th at 10th.

[58:51] » Wayne's move that we proceed to give first reading. Those in favor

[58:57] carried.

[59:03] Okay. Well, let's skip right down to um additional items. First one I have here

[59:09] is uh the grand is bringing forward a concern

[59:14] I think from a rate regarding dust control.

[59:18] And uh if Matt's still on the bill and you think he needs to hear that? No,

[59:22] » I don't. Okay. >> No, it's more I think administration

[59:26] comment concern. um had a rate payer hit me up. He says, "How come I have to pay

[59:32] by April for my dust control and I don't get it till

[59:37] two, three months later." So I said, "Well, I don't I don't really

[59:43] know what's behind that." So what is behind that?

[59:45] » Well, my understanding is right, and I've been wrong today a couple of times,

[59:50] but uh he's paying his 400 reserve funds when

[59:55] he commits to purchasing it. He's not paying for the dust control until after

[59:59] it's been sprayed, is my understanding. >> So, he doesn't pay the full thing up

[1:00:03] front. As >> far as I know, he doesn't pay the $400

[1:00:05] upfront. He's paying just the u >> kind of a down payment.

[1:00:10] » The down payment just so that we know he's doing it and I can verify that. I'm

[1:00:13] going to grab Jody or Jody is usually the one that takes it. I don't think

[1:00:16] Angel knows yet, but they usually pay their $400 or sorry, a fee up front

[1:00:23] and just as a commitment and then at the end they pay it when we invoice. I might

[1:00:28] be wrong >> because I'm thinking $400 is usually 100

[1:00:33] meters, but my understanding is they pay deposit so we know they're committed and

[1:00:39] then they do that, you know. and his comment to me is, "Well, if you're going

[1:00:45] to get my money regardless if you have to add it to my taxes or whatever." So,

[1:00:48] it's a lot of like, >> yeah, but we don't want to add taxes.

[1:00:51] That's just like Yeah. But anyway, I just I said, "Well,

[1:00:56] I don't know. Don't know the nitty-gritty and I'll find out." And

[1:01:00] » and then and if we are collecting it all, the reason is just to ensure that

[1:01:04] they do it. When they pay dust control, do we

[1:01:09] collect the whole thing or just a deposit with the start?

[1:01:11] » We just take a deposit, >> which is how much

[1:01:25] build after the dust control is done. >> Okay.

[1:01:29] » And it's up to the first 300 meters is build at that. Anything over that,

[1:01:33] there's an extra price. >> Yeah. after that get 100 meters they

[1:01:36] still paying the full thing up. >> Yes. So if they get 100 meters they pay

[1:01:40] the deposit which is basically they are paying their paid. So

[1:01:45] » so 100 meters they're paying the full thing up front.

[1:01:48] » Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:01:57] So if they order 300 meters they're only paying 400 bucks. And if they order 100

[1:02:02] meters, they're paying the 400 bucks. Yeah.

[1:02:15] Uh we're ch like you said, I think for 200 300 meters we're charging, we're

[1:02:20] giving the rate if they're charging over that 300.

[1:02:23] » Anything after 300 is

[1:02:29] after How much?

[1:02:33] » It would be the same.

[1:02:38] » Yeah, that's just the oil cost on. >> So the

[1:02:44] » So 100 or 200 meters is how much? A meter?

[1:02:50] » 400. >> 400.

[1:02:54] But I'm saying per meter. Oh, there doesn't matter. still

[1:02:59] » $4.60 plus

[1:03:07] » but we >> So we're basically we're

[1:03:11] sharing at half the cost of the product. We are paying half and the customers

[1:03:17] paying half. Is that correct? >> So they're paying 100% of the cost of

[1:03:19] the product and we're paying the >> gravel

[1:03:23] » and the labor water. >> Yeah. So,

[1:03:28] but still it's a kind of half and half almost. Yeah. Okay.

[1:03:32] » Okay, that's good. I just I thought they paid deposit, but I wasn't sure. So,

[1:03:38] » thank you. >> Thank you.

[1:03:42] » So, anyway, he just asked, you know, how come I have to pay it all up front and I

[1:03:46] don't get it till two or three months later?

[1:03:49] And that's a great question in the sense that Matt would was started this a month

[1:03:53] ago, but it keeps getting pushed back because we're the small guy on the

[1:03:56] thing. >> So, they are doing it now, but u

[1:04:03] rain and moisture and there's >> there's a lot of factors involved in it.

[1:04:06] They get pushed back sometimes. He does the best that he can to have it for the

[1:04:12] first part of June. >> Sometimes it's not always the case.

[1:04:16] » Yeah, I know it's out of Matt's control in that regard.

[1:04:20] Okay. Is that satisfy? You can take some answers back to

[1:04:25] » Dennis. Uh, councelor Baker, uh, wants a little discussion on the

[1:04:30] » I wish I see if Matt's still there. He can answer this one a lot better than

[1:04:34] us. >> Why don't you tell us, Dennis, what your

[1:04:37] conversation was all about? Uh, >> a phone call

[1:04:45] up there. We got barricades on the bridge.

[1:04:52] Want to know what's going on bridge that nice

[1:04:58] and then he

[1:05:02] want that bridge there and he said there's numerous citations

[1:05:08] for compliance with environment and

[1:05:12] fisheries. I don't know anything about that.

[1:05:16] And I said, "Well, I'll let him talk to council and find out about that."

[1:05:22] So, basically, you got three parties, I guess, the

[1:05:26] Heritage Ranches, the whole Haven Association, whatever

[1:05:32] the guy called, and then you've got the guys that run the cattle.

[1:05:37] And so the guys that run the cattle I don't think are getting along with the

[1:05:42] heritage ranch guys that are coming down and accessing and stopping.

[1:05:48] » Yeah. So I I says I I don't know anything about that.

[1:05:57] » The bridge is part of their trail system now. Like it's part of their designated

[1:06:01] trail and they legally cannot cross that creek without that bridge.

[1:06:08] All the polyan guys that are crossing the creek with their quads technically

[1:06:14] they should be getting ticketed from environment because they're not allowed

[1:06:17] to do that and they're supposed to be that

[1:06:20] » and we own that bridge. Is that what you told us that once the

[1:06:26] bridge is built we take position? >> Technically it's on our road allowance

[1:06:29] and we we're responsible for it. >> There's a lot of

[1:06:33] » y >> variables in this. Yeah.

[1:06:36] » Now, when they said environmental citations, I'm not sure what they mean.

[1:06:44] » But >> Sean, when he installed it, I believe he

[1:06:47] got a talking to for running his equipment across the river to help

[1:06:50] install it. >> So, was it good enough to drive?

[1:06:56] » Uh, not at the moment. But like

[1:07:01] » so

[1:07:04] » so what's the unsafe what's going on that you wouldn't the iron or the wood

[1:07:09] or what >> big timbers

[1:07:18] not big bro 8 and

[1:07:24] so we closed it down since I ended up waited till we had a chance to get to

[1:07:29] it. Went out to our car. We pulled

[1:07:36] those are 8 by8. We were going to pull three of them for 24 in. We have 8 by6

[1:07:42] timbers out of Delina. We were going to replace four. Put four back in. And uh

[1:07:49] as they pulled those they were clean and they're pride against the other one two

[1:07:56] more shape and uh yeah so we finally

[1:08:04] Friday we've got timbers back in and I believe

[1:08:12] no we kind of got a bigger timber out of the yard cut that down

[1:08:17] I believe we it. Fan a gap 2 in gap with some spruce that we have in the yard.

[1:08:23] Just fill it up, take room, um, make it functionable. It's not all the way back

[1:08:30] together yet, but that's as far as we got Friday. I've just been kind of

[1:08:34] working on it and we have rain down on other things, but I don't think it's a

[1:08:38] huge priority. as you want it to be, but probably only one is the guys who write

[1:08:47] the trails out. >> Yeah.

[1:08:49] » So, how close is it to being ready? Would you say couple days, week?

[1:08:54] » Half day around with it, but it's just getting there.

[1:08:59] » Well, yeah. >> Got everybody going to calcium and we're

[1:09:01] working on the fairway road up here. So that will be the question first of

[1:09:08] the talk meetings that bought the bridge either watching.

[1:09:13] » Well, it serves a purpose. It serves an environmental purpose if they're

[1:09:17] supposed to be using it. >> It serves an access as an access going

[1:09:22] down the road. That's the whole reason why the road was built is to provide

[1:09:25] access down to parcels further to the south. So going

[1:09:30] back, Carson County has not received any citations on that bridge as being wrong

[1:09:34] or anything. It was inspect or was uh stamped by a surveyor at the start.

[1:09:39] There's an issue with that being did he have a license or not? But it's stamped.

[1:09:44] It's gone. It's good. Um >> you mean an engineer?

[1:09:47] » Engineer. Yeah. Um >> Oh, was

[1:09:51] » it was stamped? Yeah. Um, I just gonna say, but no, no. And the only, like I

[1:09:57] said, the infraction so-called or the environmental thing was I think Sean

[1:10:02] took his his equipment across the river to lift it across. He says he came all

[1:10:08] the way around and whatever, but whoever. That's the only incident I know

[1:10:12] of. Do you know any other incidents besides a quad guy driving through and

[1:10:15] get the ticket for going on the river and not the bridge?

[1:10:19] » But there's the >> That's part of the trip.

[1:10:22] » Yeah. Yeah. So the recording environment that's class water body or something

[1:10:26] like that um stream unit. So you're only allowed to cross it with a motor vehicle

[1:10:31] uh the end of August to like midepptember and any other time is an

[1:10:36] environmental concern and you could get fined for doing that just the whole way.

[1:10:41] But it's the same situation as Le Creek like you're not allowed to cross Le

[1:10:45] Creek and at all it's the same classification.

[1:10:49] So technically even fully guys were not allowed to drive their quads in the

[1:10:55] creek if they are blind.

[1:10:59] » Yeah.

[1:11:02] » So the the group out there that's doing um the RV group, they've actually

[1:11:07] started the installation of a bathroom out there on our parking lot. They're

[1:11:11] going to put two Texas gates, not Texas gates. Yeah. Dexus gates down this road

[1:11:16] so that everything will cattle will stay on their side. So they're doing a lot of

[1:11:20] lot of work out there. >> Yeah, they would. That is part of the

[1:11:26] trail system now as set up by Alberta Environment. Sorry, Alberta Environment.

[1:11:30] Yeah, the trail land and forest or whatever. And they're technically

[1:11:34] supposed to go across that as far as the heritage.

[1:11:39] » I wouldn't think a lot

[1:11:44] not not accessing the ranch though. >> They'll go from heritage ranch. Yes. The

[1:11:48] trip to stop the trail system because they they have to go from there all the

[1:11:53] way up to the gates to start. >> Um so there was a ticket last summer

[1:11:59] given to a guy who was using that and then they was on trail uh without

[1:12:06] signing in even though he was coming from her ranch to the start.

[1:12:10] » Yeah. And then that particular I believe is wave.

[1:12:14] » I did talk to uh Randy Still. I think he was here. All of

[1:12:19] us talked to him that he told us they were putting the two Texas gates in and

[1:12:23] the gate right here so that Heritage Ranch cannot use this location to access

[1:12:29] the park that they're going to go. So he so he's part of the

[1:12:33] » Yes. So he told me that's what they're doing and seems like they're

[1:12:39] » So then I'll just report back discuss and I I said if you'd like to

[1:12:44] come to council make a presentation whatever talk to everybody. I says this

[1:12:49] is all before my time. I'm not really aware of all the treatments and do what

[1:12:54] where I don't think everybody's happy. No, to

[1:13:00] be honest, >> everybody will be happy.

[1:13:04] » We were happy the day that that group came on and we could step out of it and

[1:13:08] say >> it must have been.

[1:13:12] » So, you know, this is really, >> but as far as a bridge goes, Dennis, the

[1:13:17] bridge is going to remain. We're not we're still gonna use it as uh

[1:13:22] » so I can say the bridge was stamped engineerally and it's been approved

[1:13:27] through environment and the bridge is state

[1:13:30] » I don't know I wouldn't say it's been approved through environment I'm not

[1:13:33] sure they approved >> okay didn't Shawn have to get all those

[1:13:40] okay that's good then he did >> so and then if they had more to cancel I

[1:13:45] guess >> he had his hand slapped when they

[1:13:48] crossed the creek. But that was that was >> well and if he wants to come to council,

[1:13:54] I'm not sure what he wants to come to council for

[1:13:57] » because sanium after environment. Well, it's

[1:14:02] » I explained to them

[1:14:09] » and council at the time gave permission to build a fairway

[1:14:15] on that and part of that is to follow all the environmental rules and all that

[1:14:20] kind of stuff which he did with the with the bridge, right? Because that was a

[1:14:24] big problem. Couldn't cross.

[1:14:29] It was a second way out. >> Yes. Technically,

[1:14:35] » and we're fixing it. So, we're taking on that responsibility.

[1:14:39] $100

[1:14:51] if you can get them like there >> on that. And if council wants to pull

[1:14:56] out the bridge and tell everybody that bridge

[1:15:04] it was installed or Yeah.

[1:15:17] It wasn't a bridge. >> It wasn't a new bridge.

[1:15:22] » It It The bridge was born 50 years ago. >> Yeah. It's just a moved bridge.

[1:15:33] » ATV bridge. It's not bad.

[1:15:36] » Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so you can designate it to be diesel.

[1:15:41] » Yeah, they could restrict the access vehicle access.

[1:15:43] » Yeah. To clarify the question of does Heritage Ranch use that as access? I

[1:15:49] think >> my understanding is only as a trail to

[1:15:54] get into not to get into their property. They come in from the south end into

[1:16:00] their property, but once they're at the property, they'll use it as access to

[1:16:04] get in to pull >> head before they

[1:16:08] » Yes. >> Emergency.

[1:16:15] » It was It was put in by Sean to get his cattle to his thing.

[1:16:20] » I've driven across the bridge in my big truck before many times.

[1:16:26] » Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been across it in a

[1:16:32] pickup, you know, but uh >> I don't know.

[1:16:38] » That's pretty rough. >> So these

[1:16:42] » I drove across. >> So these timbers are they the actual

[1:16:45] structural span support from side to side or they east west timbers?

[1:16:56] » Okay. big table sit on that and there's

[1:16:59] decking on top of that.

[1:17:03] » So the steel is actually the structural support.

[1:17:10] » Once that's done, you can take your semi- loaded cat across it

[1:17:14] » again. >> Yeah, but I think that's a good point.

[1:17:19] We should talk about a truck and trailer. Yeah, it should really be

[1:17:22] restricted to quads only or small ATVs just

[1:17:27] » because there's liability. >> Yes, I do think we have uh signs down

[1:17:34] there, but yes, there's always liability >> on every road.

[1:17:45] » That was one of the problems is you couldn't get couldn't get from this land

[1:17:50] to couldn't get to his land unless he went

[1:17:54] through other people's land. >> Mhm.

[1:17:56] » He didn't have any easements, but this was his legal.

[1:18:03] » Okay. Is that satisfactory, Dennis? All right.

[1:18:10] Murray is 11:45. Is anybody out?

[1:18:18] I don't think anybody's out there told >> the question and answer period is

[1:18:23] currently open. We'll move on to Tom 501. You got a continuing question.

[1:18:28] » Yeah. I don't Where do I go, guys? >> I guess we'll go play.

[1:18:36] » No. Do we go political? go to the minister's cow and I approach

[1:18:42] him and say, you know, we're not getting anywhere with transportation.

[1:18:47] I sent you all these letters and we still haven't got any

[1:18:52] thing from transportation. I mean, >> that's that's his only option, isn't it?

[1:18:59] » Do I see a governor wants to come at lunch? So can

[1:19:08] » can if you want >> can can we schedule a time for Mr. ask

[1:19:13] to come to our council meeting >> anytime you can get him here

[1:19:18] » summer time

[1:19:24] » if if he can attend our council meeting and see if he can

[1:19:29] » should be a good time to network is when they're not in Edmonton right

[1:19:41] » I just got a questions.

[1:19:48] » I'll just call and see if you could be think

[1:19:54] I just instead of us waiting around till 1:30,

[1:19:58] I just figured maybe Delbert could come a little earlier if he's nearby. And

[1:20:01] Carsten, um Tim Tim can be here at 1, but if

[1:20:06] Delbert can come before 1, that would be great.

[1:20:10] Yeah. Uh because I think fellas that for the

[1:20:15] most part we've we've taken care of all of our agenda

[1:20:20] items here today. >> You're talking about a close session.

[1:20:26] » Close session. >> Yeah, we got that left and that's as far

[1:20:30] as I know that. And Tim Romano >> here. Those in favor

[1:20:38] had talk while you guys reading. We appreciate the opportunity to come.

[1:20:41] We've had to cancel a couple of times because I forgot once and then you were

[1:20:45] tied up with a I think the church property

[1:20:49] had a meeting. So anyways, but we'd like to uh come and I apologize there's no

[1:20:54] directors here. They were planning on coming at 1:30 today, but they couldn't

[1:20:59] change their their plan. So, but we usually come after every election and

[1:21:04] meet with all the councils in our in the district of Chief Mountain just to uh

[1:21:09] just to review what Chief Mountain does and that we're here to provide service

[1:21:12] for most of the county residents any questions that that you may have. We

[1:21:19] put this practice in place because there's lots of time new counselors and

[1:21:22] I know Dennis is the new new counselor here but sometimes there's no changes

[1:21:27] but we still like to attend the council meetings and there could be

[1:21:30] administration people change that are not aware of chief mountain gas and what

[1:21:35] they do and so uh so we just we come and present that. So let's push this button

[1:21:44] the other one. Yeah. So, as many of you know, Dennis Dennis might not, but the

[1:21:48] rest of you are members of the gas co-op already. So, we've been in business

[1:21:52] since 1973. It's when the co-op was started, co-op program. And it was

[1:21:57] started as a gr gas root grassroots just some farmers got together because

[1:22:02] Premier Loheed wanted to gas supply all of Alberta. And uh those original

[1:22:09] board members uh a lot of the original meetings were

[1:22:13] held in kitchens and farmhouse as they tried to establish and and talk to their

[1:22:18] neighbors to get gas service. So in 73 we the Chief Mountain was formed. In 74

[1:22:24] we started putting pipelines in. In 2020, and 2002, we amalgamated with

[1:22:30] Somerville Gas Co-op, which is serves uh east and north of Pincher Creek, and uh

[1:22:38] they had amalgamated with Livingston Gas Co-op, which is up the Mayraft up

[1:22:42] Highway 22. And so our service district is we're a 4-hour drive from the east

[1:22:49] end of our co-op to the north end of our co-op. So we're quite a big district.

[1:22:54] currently serve 1720 member customers with natural gas. We serve the US port

[1:22:59] of Pagan and Waterton Lakes National Park. So we're one of the only gas

[1:23:03] co-ops to do those two things in the in the

[1:23:07] » border >> just into the port of Pagan. So the US

[1:23:09] side. Yeah.

[1:23:14] Hi, natural fib have 16 km of highpressure steel lines, 96 km of high

[1:23:20] pressure aluminum lines and countless kilometers of polyethylene pipeline gas

[1:23:25] lines throughout the pull-ups. Uh we're our pipelines are over 50 years

[1:23:32] old, many of them. uh because we do constant ma maintenance on the cathodic

[1:23:37] protection of our steel and aluminum lines, they're in good shape. We we

[1:23:41] don't anticipate having to replace them anytime soon.

[1:23:45] our plastic lines. Uh there was a black poly line that was that was produced in

[1:23:51] the early '7s that is uh it's not failing, but if we

[1:23:56] if we have to squeeze it off for then where we squeeze the pipe that pressure

[1:24:01] cracks and will start to leak within two years. And so we're starting a program

[1:24:06] now to start replacing some of that black pipe. Fortunately, we don't have a

[1:24:09] lot of it. It's usually usually just a customer service drop to their house

[1:24:14] because it's only 3/4 inch poly. And the other problem we're having with

[1:24:19] 3/4 in, we don't put very much 3/4 in anymore cuz our gophers like chewing on

[1:24:24] that pipe and uh we were part of part of the reason that

[1:24:30] we got the strict nine approval. Uh they took some of our samples of our chewed

[1:24:35] gas pipe. >> That's right.

[1:24:36] » And uh so >> so they can chew right through them.

[1:24:39] They chew through it. Yeah. And the ones we've dug up

[1:24:44] biologist, but it appears it's where the nest is

[1:24:48] because it's chewed for about 4 feet. Um, and I think the new gophers are

[1:24:53] cutting their teeth is what I think it is because there no other reason to chew

[1:24:57] on it. We've had badgers and beavers chew through our lines and they they're

[1:25:02] they have a purpose. Just so you know, Delbert, I'm doing my part to help your

[1:25:08] infrastructure. There's a Chief Mountain line right on

[1:25:12] my private road and I shot 50 gophers right on the line.

[1:25:17] Well, there was a time years ago we service guys, we all carried a 22 in our

[1:25:22] truck because there's some fields that were just terrible for gophers and uh

[1:25:27] and you guys are aware of that situation now. So anyways, we're we're not putting

[1:25:33] very many 3/4 lines in the bigger pipe, one inch and bigger, the gophers don't

[1:25:37] seem to bother us. >> So yeah,

[1:25:39] » yellow pipe. >> So I think it's just it's too big of a

[1:25:42] pipe for they get their anyways. Uh we also offer 100% burner

[1:25:48] tip service to our service area. So, we we have a full HVAC and plumbing

[1:25:53] uh trades people in our office and we we offer that service to all of our

[1:25:58] customers and and the municipalities that we serve.

[1:26:06] » You guys still >> Yeah, still do your in-house work.

[1:26:10] » Yeah. >> We work closely with ATCO and Apex in

[1:26:14] the joint franchise area. So we're scattered uh around the areas. We've got

[1:26:19] Apex Knackful joining us in many areas. Uh we have 1188 members. So we are a gas

[1:26:28] co-op. We're owned by those members. Many of you that are members uh are

[1:26:33] owners of Chief Mountain Gas Co-op. I and they elect the members elect the

[1:26:38] board of directors. The board of directors direct me in what

[1:26:42] I do. So, as far as policy and bylaws, that's just some of the diverse group

[1:26:47] that we serve. Uh, right colonies that we've we've got a

[1:26:53] lot of colonies in the in Carson County and and MD Pincher.

[1:26:58] Interesting story. I was up uh near High Prairie or Prairie River, sorry, with

[1:27:05] doing a provincial government audits and Old Elm Colony was splitting and moving

[1:27:09] up there from McGrath And so we pulled in the yard and asked

[1:27:14] for Fred. He's their gas guy. And he came out and said, "What the heck are

[1:27:17] you doing up here?" >> But that's the first gas or first hur

[1:27:22] colony in that area >> up there and clearing land.

[1:27:26] » Yeah, they're clearing land. Lots of land they got to clear. But uh it's a

[1:27:30] different uh different farming environment and people don't don't know

[1:27:33] about hood. So that's just our web page and uh the

[1:27:41] green the green on that map shows our service our franchise areas.

[1:27:46] So everything outside of that is either at core or apex.

[1:27:51] » Yes. >> Who determines the I think.

[1:27:55] » Yeah. So it it was determined in 197172 when Premier Lohei decided to he wanted

[1:28:02] all of Alberta to be gasified natural gas. He went to the two ACO and Apex now

[1:28:08] but they were northwestern and Canadian western at the time and said we want you

[1:28:14] to service rural Alberta and they said we don't want to service rural Alberta.

[1:28:19] We just want to do the hubs we've got the cherry picking is what we call it.

[1:28:23] And so they said, "Then draw your lines, draw your tongs areas around where you

[1:28:28] are, and that we're going to give everything else to the gas to a gas

[1:28:32] co-op program." So there was 85 original gas co-ops, uh, gas co-ops, First

[1:28:38] Nations, and municipalities in the north. There's some counties that that

[1:28:43] run their gas system. So, we've got 81 today

[1:28:49] and those the four that aren't there were amalgamated with other co-ops.

[1:28:53] » So, but there's no people I'd like to change over.

[1:28:58] » Yeah. No, there's uh you're pretty well stuck with your provider that way. We we

[1:29:03] have some fringe like fringe areas where over in Pincher Apex didn't want to

[1:29:09] serve a customer in their franchise, but right on our border and so they turned

[1:29:14] the customer over to us. It didn't change the franchise area. They're still

[1:29:17] the customer, but we get to serve them. If they ever build a pipeline there,

[1:29:22] then they'll take them there. >> Yeah. And we we had the same situation

[1:29:27] up here with Lonnie Shipley. So, Lonnie.

[1:29:32] » Yeah. >> Up on the hill and up by L Grand. Yeah.

[1:29:36] We had to get ato to let Blanie be our customer because he's outside our

[1:29:40] franchise. boundary.

[1:29:44] » You guys Mountain View. Yeah.

[1:29:49] » It's like Mountain View Hills Glenwood. >> Yeah. In the 50s when ACCO brought gas

[1:29:54] to the major municipalities, they picked up all the

[1:29:59] » Did they follow the highway? Does ACO have like so much on each side of the

[1:30:02] highway or not? >> No. So, coming down Highway Five,

[1:30:06] there's a few act customers. Uh they call them farm taps

[1:30:12] » and uh if if they don't want gas from that, they can change.

[1:30:17] » They can though. >> Yeah. Because most time they couldn't.

[1:30:20] » Yeah. They're shown in our franchise area. They're not excluded. Spring

[1:30:23] is excluded like the Hamlet of Spring but

[1:30:27] » like the Beavers and I'm not sure who all that highway, but

[1:30:33] we we picked up a couple of those change. Yeah.

[1:30:43] McGrath McGrath is the lines are drawn there until they till the town McGrath

[1:30:48] annexes and everything. >> But you service our new our new

[1:30:50] commercial subdivision cuz you did some work out there, right?

[1:30:53] » You laid some pipe in the ground. >> Yeah, we laid some pipe in our main line

[1:30:57] in so it was ready when So we just have to dig things up again.

[1:31:02] » Mhm. No. And there's some other I we're going to

[1:31:07] be looking at doing some upgrades there south of McGrath. There's a couple of

[1:31:11] applications for subdivisions. You know, there's four four lots of

[1:31:15] stringums and >> there's a big there's a big 30 lot one

[1:31:19] coming. The realtor told me the other day. I don't think you've seen that one

[1:31:22] yet, but >> just south of the cemetery.

[1:31:28] They bought that they bought that piece of that house has been abandoned. I

[1:31:32] don't think anybody's living there but

[1:31:38] » Yeah. Yeah. So they're talking about >> work where this snow of who works

[1:31:43] » cemetery graveyard >> chill in a Yeah

[1:31:49] cemetery. >> Yeah. Just before you turn the curve

[1:31:52] that's a big abandoned old thing that did more. Yeah. Yeah.

[1:32:00] Uh this so we're divided into three zones at the Pitch Creek area zone one.

[1:32:05] This is our board members up there. Jim Welch our chairman Ron Schmidtz from

[1:32:09] Twinbute and Dennis Stuk is there by the Waterton Dam. Our zone two is Waterton

[1:32:15] Park and Carson the west half of Carson County. So Brett Stewart Burke Nish and

[1:32:20] Tim Forsight are the directors there. And in McGrath Del Bonita and we also

[1:32:25] have two customers in the county of Warner now. Uh Gary Stanford's our vice

[1:32:30] chairman, John Schneider, and uh BJ Sherlink from Delminata is our

[1:32:35] secretary.

[1:32:38] Construction, we appreciate the Carson County's ability to work with us when

[1:32:44] we're constructing. And uh this is a picture from Parage Acres

[1:32:49] that we did last year. Uh customer took that picture and I thought it framed

[1:32:54] Chief Mountain quite well and uh we were able to get that gas line

[1:32:59] all in for those lots up there without too many environmental concerns from

[1:33:04] some of the tree huggers up there. But >> you guys contract

[1:33:08] » No, we contract. >> Yeah.

[1:33:12] » Uh in 2017 we bought Glacier Mechanical in Pincher Creek uh which was a HVAC

[1:33:18] business over there. We felt like we needed a office presence in Pinger Creek

[1:33:24] and so that gives us an office over there and we bought six full-time staff

[1:33:29] over there that take care of Pinch Creek calls.

[1:33:33] Just some of the stuff we sell. Got a heck of a sale on barbecues right now.

[1:33:38] If you need a barbecue, come down and visit.

[1:33:42] » Yeah. There's our current staff. Uh Ken Olds

[1:33:48] is one of our oldest employees and he's retiring supposed to be on the 30th of

[1:33:53] June, but he came and saw me this morning. His mother passed away on

[1:33:55] Friday and so Ken's and so he's taking he's done today effectively. So

[1:34:02] » Ken's done. >> Ken is done. Yeah,

[1:34:04] » he's always been I have him in my phone. He's always been my cheap mountain gas

[1:34:08] guy. >> Ken be

[1:34:12] changing my phone number just so you don't see that. It's fine.

[1:34:18] too many people that call me. So, anyways, but

[1:34:20] » Tim Anderson was been there for a while. >> Yeah. Yeah. Tim's been with us for a

[1:34:24] while. We've got uh four apprentices right now.

[1:34:28] Um well, five apprentices effectively. Uh Jordan Butler's from Glenwood. He's

[1:34:33] just he's going for his fourth year. The uh Elnar Sigir and Demit Sega are

[1:34:40] Philippine apprentices. And uh to be honest, I'd hire more of them if I could

[1:34:45] find them. Uh it's not very often an employee comes

[1:34:50] in and says, "Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir, for my job." And uh and they just

[1:34:54] know how to work. So, but that's the list of the of our employees there.

[1:35:03] And again, we just we just thank you for the opportunity to come and and visit

[1:35:06] with you and uh work with Joe and Murray u and your road crew guys, Matt.

[1:35:15] I bumped into Matt at the RCMP station the other day. I says, "Are you in

[1:35:18] trouble or am I in trouble?" He said, "I hope none of us are in trouble." But

[1:35:23] anyways, there's one thing I would like to suggest and we suggested to the MD of

[1:35:27] Pincher and and Willow Creek and Warner also is uh I've talked to you Joe about

[1:35:34] a permit process. A lot of times we find we're installing gas to customers that

[1:35:40] have built a house or built something and nobody knows anything about it and

[1:35:44] when we go to pull our gas permit then the hits the fan. And I think the

[1:35:50] county's experienced a couple of those. Uh, but if there was a way that the as

[1:35:56] Chief Mountain, if we could just send Joe a list and say, "Here's the

[1:36:00] applications we've got for new gas services and you just approve them and

[1:36:04] then that gives you guys a heads up that there's there's something going on

[1:36:08] there." Um, we don't want you to charge us a permit fee or anything like that,

[1:36:13] but it just allows you guys to and and we get we get quite a considerable flak.

[1:36:19] uh poor blunt. I won't mention anything

[1:36:23] bad, but he's one example that builds a shop and then all of a sudden

[1:36:28] the shop turns into something more than really going to be, right? And so we

[1:36:33] take out our permit for the heating system and he's mad at us for taking a

[1:36:37] permit out because now they want the electrical permit and a sewer permit and

[1:36:40] a water, you know, all these other permits. And uh we just figured it'd be

[1:36:44] best for the county to be on top of that before. And so we usually have them come

[1:36:48] in and apply uh two months before they want the gas. So

[1:36:54] it just be a matter of sending a letter to you guys saying here's our

[1:36:58] applications for this spring or fall or whatever and and you guys have got them

[1:37:02] on your radar. >> So what are you looking for? Just a

[1:37:05] development permit or >> just a per Yeah, a lot of times we have

[1:37:08] to get permission to cross a road anyways and so we just thought it would

[1:37:12] be part of that request.

[1:37:17] No, >> someone doesn't have the permit for you.

[1:37:21] » Yeah. >> Yeah. May I

[1:37:26] » You can't issue the permit. >> No.

[1:37:28] » No. No. No. We We'd still do our gas. >> Yeah.

[1:37:33] » And just just giving you guys a heads up more than more than anything.

[1:37:37] » We We hate to make the customers mad, but our insurance for our in-house gas

[1:37:42] work, we have to take a permit out. Otherwise, we're completely liable,

[1:37:45] right? And so, and as we explain it to the homeowners, it's protecting you on

[1:37:51] your insurance side. If if your house burned down tomorrow and you didn't have

[1:37:55] a gas permit, then your insurance is going to say, "Well, who who approved

[1:38:00] all the work?" And it's the same with the electrical and the building and

[1:38:03] everything. >> You're after you're after to have a

[1:38:06] their their gas permit from inspection. >> We have before you guys go to the

[1:38:09] property. >> We won't hang the meter until until we

[1:38:12] have a permit. So, >> it's a nice way for us to know what's

[1:38:15] going on before take a crap. >> Yeah.

[1:38:18] » We can take it when we send them a letter saying,

[1:38:20] » "Yeah, >> here you're building."

[1:38:22] » A lot of the times there's when they say, "Well, we're building a barn."

[1:38:27] » Yeah. >> Right.

[1:38:28] » Um that's only good for the building permit and the development permit. Yeah.

[1:38:31] They still have to get gas permits to get electrical permits.

[1:38:36] It's when those burns turn in barns turn into apartments and

[1:38:44] » Yeah.

[1:38:50] » Anyways, any other questions? I'm a proud member of the gas. I don't

[1:38:56] know how many of you guys are members of Chief Mountain, but I really like

[1:39:05] I >> I think it's been a very good company to

[1:39:08] deal with

[1:39:12] » co-op. I should say a co-op. >> Yeah.

[1:39:14] » Um Delbert, I have a question for you. You had a picture of a Resnor for unit.

[1:39:20] » Yeah, >> I'm in need of one right now. The uh the

[1:39:24] attached garage is 32 by 36 with like 12 foot ceilings. Do you have something in

[1:39:28] stock? They usually have it left. Our

[1:39:32] wholesalers have it. Yeah. So, it's usually a day to get it.

[1:39:35] » I'll fly about I think my dad wants to put one in his in his attached garage,

[1:39:39] but I can come buy it from you guys. >> Yeah.

[1:39:42] » Make sure you >> Yeah.

[1:39:45] Well, we learned that today. >> We We sell a lot of the Calcana the two

[1:39:49] Peters. >> Two Peters. the this they call them like

[1:39:53] a sunray or anyways they're >> for those of you that have a shop with

[1:39:58] one in it. It's a different heat than the reners. U and it they work great as

[1:40:04] they heat everything underneath. They heat everything underneath your floors

[1:40:08] warm all the time and your recovery time is a lot quicker than the four stair

[1:40:12] style. And the cost is about the same. So it just depends if you got room to

[1:40:17] run down one side of your building. >> Lots of room.

[1:40:20] » Yeah. So they are they are a nicer heater than the reszers. We get a lot of

[1:40:25] customers that don't use their garage all the time or their shop and they just

[1:40:30] want to be go out and turn the heat on and get it warm right away. Those calers

[1:40:34] aren't good for that. The resiners are probably your best best thing then and

[1:40:38] probably upsize it if that's the use of it.

[1:40:42] The appliances today are designed to just set a temperature and stay on and

[1:40:46] maintain that temperature rather than the quick quick startup. So

[1:40:53] » yeah, give us a call. >> Well, we appreciate you being here and

[1:40:56] and uh we definitely a lot of we have a lot of things going on in Carson County

[1:41:03] that include you. So, thank you for the service that you provide

[1:41:08] and uh come back again and see us. We're happy to see you brought your board,

[1:41:12] some of your board last time. I remember.

[1:41:14] » Yeah, I invited them for today for 1:30, but changing it to

[1:41:19] » they're busy. But >> when is the AGM normally? Maybe I should

[1:41:23] start. >> So, we've changed we used to be we

[1:41:26] changed our year end to December. Used to be in September when we moved to the

[1:41:31] automated uh meter readings like we gather them by plane now. Then we

[1:41:35] changed our AM every at the end of every year. we have to physically go and read

[1:41:41] all the meters and December got to be a real problem during Christmas break and

[1:41:46] New Year's >> with some of the winters we had to try

[1:41:49] and get to all the places to read meters and so once we went to the automated

[1:41:52] readings then we don't have that requirement anymore because we get it

[1:41:56] every month so it's in February can't give you the date right now

[1:42:01] February it's the last week of February I think

[1:42:04] » did they send out a notice >> yeah there's a notice of clearing your

[1:42:07] gas bill and then it's on our web page and everything. So,

[1:42:11] » okay, >> it's usually at the Remington Center

[1:42:14] 1:00 afternoon meeting. We've tried we've tried supper, supper time. We've

[1:42:21] tried everything to get members to come and the best thing we have is just have

[1:42:25] some elections going on. That brings that brings more members out. So, but

[1:42:31] there was years we would it'd be the nine directors and the staff and maybe

[1:42:37] one or two come in out of,00 members. And so I told our

[1:42:42] chairman, I said, "Well, double the gas price two months before the meeting and

[1:42:46] you'll >> you'll have a full house." Yeah.

[1:42:50] » So So you're on, but everyone else isn't.

[1:42:54] » No, I'm on. >> You're on. Wayne,

[1:42:57] » you're on. >> And Tom is

[1:42:59] » one, two, three. >> Roger.

[1:43:01] » Yeah, Roger. >> Just you guys.

[1:43:08] No, Rob Ganu, he's he's got his red seal electrical, so he can do everything.

[1:43:13] » I remember Jacobs was always agitated. He was on Echo and he wanted

[1:43:20] pipeline was right close to his house like he's like, "Why can't I?"

[1:43:27] » Yeah. >> Going to miss Kim.

[1:43:31] » Yes, we are. We are.

[1:43:33] » How many years there for Ken? >> 23.

[1:43:36] » 23. >> Yeah, that's that's with us.

[1:43:41] » I'm I'm pushing 46, I think, this this fall. Something like that.

[1:43:46] » And you started at >> I started as an apprentice gas

[1:43:52] » 19. I went to university. I was going to be a get a business degree. I went to

[1:43:57] the UEL for one year and I got so sick and tired of all theology classes. I

[1:44:03] said and I this dad said we need a coming.

[1:44:10] » So your dad was working >> he was the manager. Yeah.

[1:44:13] » And now your son is >> he was the original manager, right?

[1:44:18] » And Harry Harry was the original manager and started the co-op. Then dad started

[1:44:23] in 1983 or something. No.

[1:44:28] » No. 1980. >> Well, these are good people. So,

[1:44:31] » yeah. Yeah. It's been a good career.

[1:44:36] » Is your son's name do I put in there instead of now?

[1:44:40] » He would be him or Brandon Schaefer. We hired Brandon Schaer a year ago.

[1:44:44] » Oh, yeah. >> Um,

[1:44:46] we didn't steal him from Schaper Plumbing, but their brothers weren't

[1:44:49] getting along there. Yeah. And so, and he's been a great addition. Very

[1:44:54] knowledgeable fellow, too. So, >> yeah.

[1:44:58] » One or the other. >> All right.

[1:45:00] » Thank you so much. >> I hear I hear you got owls and

[1:45:03] woodpeckers to worry about up at the campground. Is that what's going on?

[1:45:06] » I haven't heard that yet. >> Church camp. They shut them down.

[1:45:09] » Oh, I didn't know that. >> Really?

[1:45:11] » Some some woodpecker and a some owl or something? That's what my dad They told

[1:45:17] my dad the other day. You mean to tell me that the environmentalists have come

[1:45:20] out and and are trying to attack them? >> Well, that's Yeah,

[1:45:26] » I think BCLA brought them in. Something to go something to do with where the

[1:45:31] road the new roads going down like the switchbacks. They can't do that because

[1:45:36] they found these a woodpecker and a owl of some sort. They're endangered

[1:45:40] species. Okay, that's good.

[1:45:44] But they did get started on it so that's good.

[1:45:48] They'll take care they'll take care of it now.

[1:45:50] » Couple prayers they'll be gone. >> Yeah.

[1:45:53] » All right. Thank you guys. Thank you. See you later.

[1:46:06] For getting out. And uh Chief Mountain they

[1:46:11] say is the most competitive gas rate price anywhere locally.

[1:46:18] » Good. Yeah.

[1:46:32] So that's the developer came years ago. We did a resolution

[1:46:38] that any land that got that would still be that used to be in cheap would stay

[1:46:45] there.

[1:46:48] So like if it went to that franchise area

[1:46:56] with that subdivision of Duncan

[1:47:00] because they didn't you know act was going to do it but then all a sudden no

[1:47:04] sorry but then it became part of the town and

[1:47:07] like lost potential.

[1:47:13] So that that new subdivision would

[1:47:22] » be surprising.

[1:47:46] something just real quick before Tim gets going.

[1:47:55] » Uh,

[1:47:59] did we recess our meeting and waiting for Tim to come? Is that what we do?

[1:48:04] » Yeah. >> Can't figure it out.

[1:48:08] I'll move be a break for get settled. >> Okay, does that work?

[1:48:14] » That works.

[1:48:20] » Thank you for the clarity.

[1:48:24] » Okay, Mike, is there anything you want to say to start off?

[1:48:27] » Uh, no. I'll I'll tell you. Basically, our auditors, what we had last year, our

[1:48:32] contract is over. We did renew it for a year because we can extend it. Uh we're

[1:48:36] just having weekly worked on it last year few things. So Mike has been

[1:48:42] talking to another firm or two. Their service is about $30,000. What we

[1:48:46] currently pay, sorry, is about $30,000. So it's not under the threshold of our

[1:48:52] going out to tender or anything. Uh Mike's been talking to one. He just

[1:48:56] wants to get some input from council if we can start more s talking about

[1:49:00] switching out auditors for this coming year the end of the year or what's

[1:49:06] council's preference on that >> remind me again it's KPMG

[1:49:10] » KPMG so we had KPMG roughly since 2016 is the last time reference

[1:49:16] » and we had BDO prior to that and usually every 10 years the county has gone out

[1:49:23] and sought others just for a finance just for fresh eyes

[1:49:30] because sometimes we all after 10 years of doing something you know not saying

[1:49:34] that they are um so there used to be something called the big five they don't

[1:49:40] exist anymore they've all fallen away by scandal or other things so in

[1:49:46] Lebridgeidge right now there's one called bail which aren't taking clients

[1:49:50] there's BDO which got bought out by M& So they don't exist anymore. And the

[1:49:56] manager that's at MNP is actually the one that did the BDO audit before the

[1:50:01] PMG. And we're also using MNP for our new financial system. So yes, we could

[1:50:10] use them, but we would have to note in our financial setting that there is a

[1:50:14] little bit of conflict there. So there's KPMG which unfortunately the the Derek

[1:50:22] who you guys saw for many years has retired and the new gal that took over I

[1:50:28] think she got too much put on her plates. There were several

[1:50:32] municipalities that had KPMG and actually were requested by PPMG to get

[1:50:37] extensions with municipal affairs past the May 1st deadline because of handle

[1:50:45] and I know we have quite a few products they charge fees for stuff that we've

[1:50:49] done for 18 years. So >> it's a good healthy time probably look

[1:50:53] outside the box, right? So there's quite a few there's a few members of KPMG that

[1:50:59] left KPMG three years ago and they went over to what's called best roast and po.

[1:51:06] Now those two partners have actually retired so they're going to be renaming

[1:51:11] the firm but the same three people that we would be having come back in the fall

[1:51:16] would be our audit team that we had three years ago.

[1:51:20] So they're very familiar with us. We're a very small compared to like Willow

[1:51:24] Creek. Willow Creek has actually signed on to the same company. And it's just a

[1:51:29] great year because we're doing so many things. We're taking our document

[1:51:34] storage over to a new system. We're taking our ERP over to a new system.

[1:51:39] We've got Parks and County Fire that we just added as well. And we've all had

[1:51:44] discussions. They've got a staff of 40 people in Lethbridgeidge and they're

[1:51:48] very familiar with um what we call PAP the public sector county board. So

[1:51:56] they've given us proposal which is about the same cost as

[1:52:01] what came in came sorry

[1:52:06] whatever it is. Um so it's very simpler but they've also what they're willing to

[1:52:11] do is come down and meet with Tamara and Jody before Tamara retires to say hey

[1:52:17] this is what we're going to need from you at the end 2026 to make sure it is

[1:52:23] 2026. make sure we have that stuff. So, they're very willing to work with us and

[1:52:29] they're getting involved with the sage product as well. So, I said they're

[1:52:33] going to be helping both creek do it as well. So, it's been 10 years and what

[1:52:38] we'd like to do is enter into a engagement letter with them to provide

[1:52:44] services for us for at least one year. It's going to be about 32,000 and then

[1:52:48] there's $2,000 extra just because we're going to all these new implementations

[1:52:53] just to help us make sure that there's um extra check on make sure that when

[1:52:58] going from the old system to the new system that everything is coherent and

[1:53:03] that we're compliant. So >> what was the the firm's name again?

[1:53:07] » Right now it's called Best Roast and Colep,

[1:53:11] but it's Barrett. I can't say his last name. It's very But anyways, he was with

[1:53:17] the same audit team.

[1:53:21] So they know us very well. They know what we need and uh it's very hard to

[1:53:26] find actually an audit team that would do what we because like will do their

[1:53:32] own financial statements and that because they have so much time. We

[1:53:36] require auditor to prepare things and we're also going to new financial

[1:53:40] statements in 2027 which which could add another little wrinkle in there. So his

[1:53:45] name is Barrett Beckler Ber he's going to be the partner and then we

[1:53:52] already know the staff they they're familiar with us and so he's very open

[1:53:56] to he was very excited when we talked to him about becoming

[1:54:01] our general. So, what I wanted to just ask you guys is if if you would be

[1:54:07] willing to allow us to enter into a lensurement contract with them to

[1:54:12] provide services for the services for the county for 2026 because

[1:54:18] I have to get moving on because of all these new fees that we're doing. I need

[1:54:21] them out here and

[1:54:26] » is there any disagreement with what he's proposing?

[1:54:31] Not >> we're not in a meeting.

[1:54:34] » Okay. We said

[1:54:37] » yes. >> Yeah.

[1:54:41] » Yeah. What I need your permission though is to enter a contract and make

[1:54:47] » Yeah. Early what we're looking for is some input on what you think the process

[1:54:50] should be. Uh he wants the contract one year. you said,

[1:54:55] » "Yeah, just we're if we go any further, we're going to have to go to tender."

[1:54:59] And like I say, there's not there's not too many options out there. And why

[1:55:02] would we waste your time? >> That's my one thing is how much do we

[1:55:07] have to let other firms know that we're going out?

[1:55:10] » No, as long as we're under the 70,000. >> Yeah, Willow Creek's doing this.

[1:55:14] » Will Creek's following the same I'm following the same procedure that will

[1:55:17] creek.

[1:55:21] » I I think these guys will do the job. I met with Barrett Barrett, someone that's

[1:55:24] been out here many times, talked uh for us.

[1:55:27] » Yeah. >> And pretty good.

[1:55:29] » He's the partner now. He's just gone from being the senior manager to

[1:55:32] partner. >> I I can give you my opinion on where not

[1:55:36] to go.

[1:55:39] » Uh MNP owes me $365 right now that they refused to give me from several years

[1:55:45] ago. When I when I when I uh changed uh accounting firms, they didn't give it to

[1:55:51] me. They they MNP

[1:56:02] » Can we wait till July? >> Yes. But

[1:56:05] » I just really wanted council to >> No. And that's why

[1:56:11] » Yeah. >> Is there a discussion in council with

[1:56:15] church? >> Yeah. Is there a reason that I can go

[1:56:19] into discuss because it's going to take me two weeks to get an engagement letter

[1:56:22] anyways. But I would like to know if can I proceed.

[1:56:27] » Well, you proceed with what you think and we'll take talk.

[1:56:30] » So I'll get his engagement ready better for ready for us then if that's the

[1:56:38] for.

[1:56:42] A lot of the don't handle PAC though the public center accounting so they need to

[1:56:48] know it's a totally different ball game than your normal tax that's the problem

[1:56:53] but yeah but we're >> yeah so I yeah

[1:56:57] » I don't mind doing for year but I think at some time we need to do a 10 year

[1:57:01] agreement agreement would be one year but you'd be

[1:57:05] looking at a five and then we could revisit

[1:57:11] with all new stuff coming on board. I think we need I need an auditor now kind

[1:57:15] of thing and I think they're fitting their profile and they're willing to

[1:57:17] help us get the ERP on, you know, getting the fire department make sure

[1:57:21] they're put into correctly and stuff. So, I hear what you're saying as well.

[1:57:25] So, >> we'll put something together for the

[1:57:27] 16th or the July, whatever it is. >> I think the time has come for sure to

[1:57:34] explore these better options. >> Yeah.

[1:57:39] » Yeah. No question about it.

[1:57:47] » So with the motion that we' made previously to stay with

[1:57:52] » it's only for one >> and when does that expire

[1:57:58] » this October was only for 2025 services. >> So we don't have anybody set for this

[1:58:03] year at this moment. >> Well you can carry on. I thought that

[1:58:07] our one that had been here would have made that motion for the next year

[1:58:16] » that the services of December ending December 31st 2025.

[1:58:22] So we just in October we just appoint the auditor every year.

[1:58:27] » Well, that's what I'm saying. Our last time they were here would we not have

[1:58:31] appointed for the next year? No, no, they were just reporting to you guys

[1:58:37] their December. They were finishing their December 31st meeting

[1:58:39] » October. They we appointed them as a they were then they did the audit for

[1:58:43] December. >> So then they presented usually it's in

[1:58:45] March, but this year was April. Then they're done.

[1:58:48] » So we've left ourselves wide open without an audit then at this moment.

[1:58:56] » Okay, we got to get in here. So prepare your stuff.

[1:59:00] » Thank you, Michael.

[1:59:07] All right, we're ready to open our lead. No break there.

[1:59:11] » Ready to reconvene our council meeting. >> We welcome

[1:59:18] intricacies. >> We welcome Tim Romano who's the

[1:59:21] executive director of the Milk River Watershed Council

[1:59:25] and uh Murray reached out to you. Tim, at our last meeting, we were talking a

[1:59:30] little bit about irrigation that was happening on the Milk River, but you got

[1:59:34] a whole lot more information you can share above and beyond that, right? You

[1:59:40] know, everything about the flow of the Milk River and the rules that govern how

[1:59:45] water is shared between the two countries, that kind of thing. So,

[1:59:49] welcome. And I'm have a question for you.

[1:59:54] » Sounds good. Thanks for thanks for

[2:00:00] » Sorry. Is that better? Perfect. Uh, thanks for inviting me in, Murray. I was

[2:00:05] uh I think I told Roger at AGM I said, "Yeah, I got to get in anyways and and

[2:00:09] give you guys an update because it's been a while since I've been in front of

[2:00:11] council. I know you guys came last summer down to that tour in headquarters

[2:00:15] and that was about the last time I've been engaged with guys." So, um, so

[2:00:18] yeah, I'm just I'm Roger's already seen half this so I was just going to roll

[2:00:21] through a few slides. You know who we are. We're one of the 11 wershed

[2:00:24] councils in the province. Um we're partially funded by Albert Environment.

[2:00:29] Um and uh there's yeah there's 11 of us. Uh I think you border with with Old Man

[2:00:34] Wersh Council as well. We work a little bit differently. We're we uh charable

[2:00:38] society and we we do sound science but also do a lot of stewardship working

[2:00:42] directly with producers um through part of throughout your county and for along

[2:00:46] the border. Um we're trans boundary. This is really important part of our

[2:00:50] piece again working at the head and the hip with our folks in Montana on water

[2:00:55] issues but not only water but also wildlife and other all kinds of

[2:00:58] transboundary issues. Um and in Saskatchewan we work with a group called

[2:01:02] the South of Divide Conservation Partnership and they're they've um

[2:01:06] they're they're uh they've also focused mostly on grass and working with

[2:01:10] ranchers and producers. They've they've they're involved with a lot of the PFR

[2:01:14] pastors that have pro uh transferred over the province over in the last

[2:01:18] decade here too as well. Um yeah, thanks again for uh letting uh uh Roger uh sit

[2:01:25] sit with us as an alternate for municipal reps. Uh we got a pretty

[2:01:29] diverse board. Um at the last AGM in May here, uh Ross Ford stepped up on the

[2:01:34] executive uh from County Warner and uh and we had a bit of turnover actually.

[2:01:40] We've got a few a few producers that have stepped back now and and uh we're

[2:01:45] we're in a big transition here actually this next couple years.

[2:01:49] Um so we kind of got four roles that convenor collaborator stuff that pulling

[2:01:52] people together uh monitoring reporting across the wershed both water uh water

[2:01:58] quality water quantity stuff um uh uh policy and planning. We've done things

[2:02:04] with uh most recently with county of Warner and town of Milk River for a

[2:02:09] water shortage contingency plan after the 2020 break. And uh we're willing to

[2:02:13] work with other municipal councils if there's any other policy or planning

[2:02:17] needs you need. Um and then of course education and literacy outreach stuff

[2:02:21] has really been kind of our core things. um both internally making sure that you

[2:02:26] know farm kids and kids from these small towns realize there's opportunities in

[2:02:30] their own backyard and they've got advantages of being here if they want to

[2:02:32] stay in sustainable agriculture and environmental sciences any of that kind

[2:02:36] of things. um but also telling our story across the province that we're kind of

[2:02:41] we kind of get forgotten down south and and there's a lot of good news things

[2:02:44] that are happening and and um and like things like species at risk issues are

[2:02:49] here because producers have done a good job for so long in terms of stirring the

[2:02:53] land. So we do a lot of that. Um this we have a mandate and rules document with

[2:02:57] with agreement with Alberta environment and it's right it's under review right

[2:03:01] now and it's uh really important for me to get around to stakeholders like

[2:03:06] municipal councils and others to talk about what we do and how we can be more

[2:03:11] supportive if necessary to kind of maybe reduce some of that provincial download

[2:03:15] that's happening and if there's any other opportunities for us to to

[2:03:19] continue to expand our role then uh just let me know. Um, yeah, lot we ton of

[2:03:25] stewardship work last year. I got I can't thank you guys enough for the

[2:03:28] support on things like our youth range days program. This is we're we're we've

[2:03:33] had over 250 kids come through that program since uh since 2007 I think 2008

[2:03:40] actually maybe it was when I was still with the county actually. It was one of

[2:03:42] our core programs that we that we started. Um and uh yeah, last year I was

[2:03:48] in Kimble and and Tom's backyard and now this year we're back to uh County

[2:03:53] Warner's hosting and we're out at Rand Stone. There's it's almost full. There's

[2:03:56] a few there's quite a few kids actually coming from the Cardson area this year,

[2:03:59] but uh almost full, but there is a few spots left. If anybody's interested,

[2:04:03] just let me know. Um research and monitoring. This past year, we did or we

[2:04:07] hit 20 years of water quality monitoring on the river. And again, I can't thank

[2:04:12] uh well, not Rod anymore, but Steven uh for his continued support on that.

[2:04:17] They've been doing some grab samples for us. We're basically um working with the

[2:04:21] counties. We've got about 10 $15,000 of analytical expenses that goes into this

[2:04:26] water quality monitoring work and it's about 120 to $150,000 project. like it's

[2:04:33] the amount of support that we get to pull it together and the quality of of

[2:04:36] data um helps us tell the story of the river a lot better. And it also helps me

[2:04:42] when I need to go and try to say get some funding for offstream watering or

[2:04:47] fencing projects or things for producers, I I've got the base case to

[2:04:50] justify why we're doing and and what direction what we're heading with with

[2:04:54] improvements. Um, yeah, a number of stuff. We've done a bunch of stuff from

[2:04:57] bats to frogs, uh, to little fish. Um, uh, health assessment work. This one

[2:05:06] kind of fits into an interesting story. We're we're about to head from about 600

[2:05:11] cfs being diverted from that St. Mary system to 850. So, if you add a third

[2:05:15] more water in the river at any given time, what does that do to riparian

[2:05:19] areas that are adjacent to the river? And what does that do to municipal

[2:05:22] infrastructure? What does it do? Like bridges. And

[2:05:28] so under the treaty, they could always take 850. The way the prism of the canal

[2:05:33] is right now, they can't do it. But we're probably three, four, five years

[2:05:38] out from the rest of everything else being completed. And that crappy canal

[2:05:43] that you guys bounced down the road to see um is likely to be fully uh lined

[2:05:49] and re uh rec rehabilitated in the next few years and when it does they'll be

[2:05:54] able to take their full treaty amount. So that has a big impact and it's not

[2:06:00] being talked about much right now. >> That raises the flow

[2:06:04] » base flow. Yeah. So again like May end of May here almost five inches of rain

[2:06:10] by Delbonita you put that water on top of a full canal or full channel on the

[2:06:15] river I was up already. >> Yeah. So and we've got we've done we

[2:06:20] actually was before my time was still with the county but um back in 2008 they

[2:06:24] did a sedimentation erosion study and they looked at um there's basically

[2:06:28] there's really only two distinct reaches of the Milk River. is that cobble gravel

[2:06:32] bottom reach that goes from the north fork down to probably about riding on

[2:06:36] Stone Provincial Park and then it turns to a sand bed reach on that far area and

[2:06:40] then ends up out in the Milk River Canyon before it hits the eastern

[2:06:43] crossing. And in 2008, we looked at the sedimentation and erosion rates along

[2:06:48] the river in different areas and it was pretty ironic actually. We we started by

[2:06:51] surveying producers along the river about well how much is your bank how

[2:06:55] much of that banker is moving annually or every couple years or every time

[2:06:58] there's an ice jam what do you lose and and we started with their estimates on

[2:07:03] rates of erosion and where the river was going and then we brought some engineers

[2:07:07] out that actually did profiles and and and all the geography and geology and

[2:07:11] and everything on the river and um the the producer estimates were almost bang

[2:07:16] on to what the scientists came up with basically but we now have we've got some

[2:07:19] pretty strong data that shows and we model that out. What happens if it's it

[2:07:25] stays at 600 or 650? What happens if it's 8 800 850? What happens if it's

[2:07:30] 1,000 or 1,200? And um it's pretty wild. We're going to see a lot of we're likely

[2:07:36] to see and again these were only different profiles. Um but we're likely

[2:07:41] to see that eras rate of erosion accelerate and the river channel

[2:07:46] strengthen or strengthen straighten so much. So you've got a lot more energy

[2:07:51] that's going straight down instead of being dissipated for a nice nice short

[2:07:54] meander. So um big changes are coming and it's important for us where we are

[2:08:01] as a WPAC to help uh make sure that there's sound science behind this. It's

[2:08:07] not forgotten by the IGC or the province or anybody else. and if there's

[2:08:12] opportunities for us to find some solutions and be able to make sure that

[2:08:16] you Cson County knows that well you've got three bridge decks that are roughly

[2:08:21] are going to be in rough shape. It's good to discuss this right now about

[2:08:25] what you're going to do if if there's three five $6 million worth of

[2:08:30] mitigation that's going to have to go in place to either replace or update or

[2:08:34] upgrade or anything that kind of stuff. Uh and who's who's going to be stuck

[2:08:38] with the bill? There's there's provisions in the treaty from 1909 that

[2:08:42] says that the IGC um has to pay the federal both federal governments are

[2:08:48] supposed to be paying for mitigation based on changes in water management.

[2:08:52] It's very loosey goosey the way it was written and it's never been tried and

[2:08:57] never and accessed. But if I'm able to identify there's $250 million worth of

[2:09:03] infrastructure from private stuff from producers right on the river to

[2:09:07] irrigation pump sites to municipal bridge decks, crossings, uh

[2:09:13] any of that kind of stuff, then that's a that's a real world conversation we need

[2:09:17] to have right away before that's in place and that. So so there's some stuff

[2:09:22] happening that's important. Um and yeah, through the research and monitoring

[2:09:26] team, this is how we accomplish a lot of this stuff. We've also been looking,

[2:09:29] it's kind of cool, for better or worse with the diversion failure last few

[2:09:32] years. Um, uh, you can use what's called like it's like DNA testing from water.

[2:09:38] It's a isotope work. So, it looks at the radioisotopes of the water. You need to

[2:09:41] actually figure out like what the recharge rates, what's the sources of

[2:09:44] groundwater inputs coming into the river coming from. Is it local stuff that's

[2:09:48] just Whiskey Valley aquifer or is this is this dinosaur water that's coming

[2:09:52] from below the Sweetg Grass Hills kind of thing. And um and uh so we did a

[2:09:57] whole pile of opportunistic testing of those groundwater up swells across the

[2:10:01] river right from uh west of Delanita to to the eastern crossing last year and

[2:10:06] we're working with the UFC on on some of that work. I don't have the reports yet,

[2:10:09] but it sounds like it's >> the eastern crossing right where right

[2:10:12] on the border where it drives Montana. That's the only cross.

[2:10:15] » Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's where the river well it kind of well right by I

[2:10:19] don't know if you know where the rooster's comb is like in the back of

[2:10:21] the of the uh oh shoot of the p like not the pinhorn but kind of the natural area

[2:10:27] anyways. Yeah >> where it drops in.

[2:10:30] » Yeah the canyon the river kind of does a little oop like this and then back up

[2:10:33] for a little ways and then back down completely

[2:10:36] » natural area. Yeah. And the and there's the water really important to the story

[2:10:41] is the what they call the eastern crossing uh monitoring site where we we

[2:10:45] where they measure water flows. And that's where we using a pretty

[2:10:51] complicated channel loss and game model. They figure

[2:10:54] out what the if we're allowing enough water go to Montana to meet treaty

[2:10:58] demands and things like that. So um and it's just on the US side. So our our the

[2:11:03] Canadian and the US crew kind of bounce back and forth every couple weeks to

[2:11:07] monitor that. >> It's measured right there. Eh.

[2:11:09] » Yeah. The problem it's because it's that sand bed reach, the channel moves so

[2:11:14] much. So if you have just a bubbler and you have one profile on the channel, um

[2:11:19] you might be overestimating or underestimating what the water flow is

[2:11:22] at any given time. And yeah, I I really don't like it because when we get to

[2:11:26] this these low years like this year, um it it's very difficult to make these

[2:11:32] water engineer guys are they you know they think of everything like a pipe and

[2:11:36] they know exactly what the volume is and the reality is that I'm dealing with a

[2:11:40] real world situation with a river for 280 km and there's lots of channel

[2:11:44] losses and gains and so when you get to that eastern crossing it gets tricky and

[2:11:48] this year has been a good example of it. So, but yeah, outside of that stuff, um,

[2:11:53] little fish big stewardship just wrapped up. This was a three-year project

[2:11:56] looking at some of the species at risk in the river and, uh, we did lots of

[2:12:01] science and kind of found a lot more of them. They're a lot more resilient than

[2:12:04] we thought they were when the rivers are flow flows low. But the other side of it

[2:12:07] is we worked with producers and um I believe it was almost $600,000 worth of

[2:12:12] projects that we've done with producers in the last three years from watering

[2:12:16] system fencing. Uh all our not all but a pile of our irrigators got these river

[2:12:21] screen systems. So they went from a traditional pit pit um to a to a

[2:12:25] floating intake that that doesn't any vortex so you're not pulling out um

[2:12:30] floating egg mass masses from fish or anything like that. So, um, so yeah,

[2:12:34] this was a really big one that just wrapped up.

[2:12:37] » Are you sure you're probably measuring the water coming out of the pipe bud?

[2:12:42] They know what that is and you're measuring what goes back in. You're

[2:12:46] coming up with the some type of difference.

[2:12:49] » Yeah. So, and this year it's been pretty wild. Um, usually channel losses are

[2:12:55] like you get into that like lost river valley and stuff out far in the farther

[2:12:59] eastern end of the wershed and weird stuff happens that we we have a a lot of

[2:13:03] water gets lost the groundwater and kind of goes down a different old historical

[2:13:07] geograph uh channel and and and um so usually we'd see like losses around like

[2:13:12] 1 to one and a half cubic meters per second which when you've got 18 to 20

[2:13:17] cubic meters in the river it's significant but it's not super

[2:13:20] significant. um when you've only got four or five and

[2:13:24] we're only entitled to 25% of that water to begin with, then we're threading the

[2:13:29] needle and we're trying to really figure out exactly how much is there. This year

[2:13:33] though, after after two years of being almost dry for the full seasons, um this

[2:13:38] spring, April, May, June, uh beginning of June anyways, um we're seeing like

[2:13:43] two or three cubic meters being lost in the channel and there's no that was

[2:13:47] before you you take into consideration evaporative losses and everything else.

[2:13:51] And there was no irrigation withdrawal. There was no other weird stuff happening

[2:13:55] in the waterershed. And so just when we think we got it kind of figured out,

[2:13:58] it's like it's not quite right. And this four or five year multi-year drought

[2:14:03] that we're in in that part of the world is definitely showing a major depletion

[2:14:08] in some of our groundwater resources too.

[2:14:09] » It's flowing and all a sudden it's leaving.

[2:14:11] » Yeah. Yeah. It's just wild. Um Yeah. So, but yeah, we've doing guys from uh out

[2:14:18] west of Delvanita. There's a pilot of guys that have done these watering

[2:14:21] systems with us. Razor grazers has been a big thing. Using those portable

[2:14:25] electric fencers has been really slick practice. it um and we've been able to

[2:14:29] cost share on those with producers at least 50/50 the last few years. So, it's

[2:14:33] been a really good program to have uh transboundary stuff. Again, we we b back

[2:14:37] back in November, we hosted a workshop with um land managers from Saskatchewan,

[2:14:42] Montana, and Alberta. It's kind of it's a rotating thing that happens across the

[2:14:46] three jurisdictions. Um but really puts a puts a spotlight on the good work that

[2:14:51] we're doing up here. Um yeah, skip ahead. Water supply management. be uh

[2:14:58] just wrapping up a WRP grant uh with the province to do metering. So

[2:15:06] uh for about 10 years there was a remote metering project that happened on the

[2:15:10] Milk River where every producer had a it was like a million-dollar project. every

[2:15:15] producer had a a meter installed on on their pivots or or uh pumping systems

[2:15:22] and um data was collected to develop uh basically a long-term trend model of how

[2:15:29] much so they could basically have a a ve hope a very accurate at the time

[2:15:33] estimate of their consumptive water use and uh that program ended the province

[2:15:39] Alberta agriculture pulled the money out of that about 10 years ago now and but

[2:15:43] they've been using that same data that was collected for what they call the

[2:15:46] Patterson numbers uh for estimating a water water use. Irrigation practices

[2:15:52] doesn't matter where you are have changed from even 10 years ago

[2:15:54] especially down our way. We've gone from a lot of permanent forages to way more

[2:16:00] cultivation cereals. There's some extended rotations and some especially

[2:16:04] crops going in there now that hadn't before. Um, and these Patterson numbers

[2:16:10] which work fine in a regular year allows us to balance along. We don't exceed

[2:16:15] their the estimated water consumption. It looks pretty close to reality. The

[2:16:20] last few years we've basically since 2020 when the first diversion failures

[2:16:24] were happening. Um, we recognized that it was underestimating the early spring

[2:16:29] amount of water we're using because guys were putting in purposely putting in

[2:16:32] early early early crops that they can get off early in case there was water

[2:16:37] problems. in July, August, September. Um, and maybe not taking last few years

[2:16:42] anyways, not taking as many risks with with with some of the specialties that

[2:16:46] are pretty water intensive. And there's less forages on the landscape as well,

[2:16:51] too. Um, so instead of guys trying to water for three hay crops, they're

[2:16:56] watering early on to to get ahead of a dry spring or dry summer and then, you

[2:17:01] know, the canola's off early mid August, whatever it ends up being. um and uh and

[2:17:09] they're and they're just not using as much water. These Patterson numbers are

[2:17:12] showing less water in the spring because you don't really need it early early on

[2:17:15] for crop for hay crops and then a big bump in July and August and that's not

[2:17:20] what we're seeing anymore. And July and August is when we're under the

[2:17:23] microscope and we need to be using less water and it's reporting that we're

[2:17:28] using too much. So our guys are getting cut off. the last couple years when we

[2:17:31] ran the numbers, they were cut off probably two or three weeks earlier than

[2:17:34] they should have been um for what we're actually physically were pulling from

[2:17:38] the river. So last year we got a grant to actually go in. We've got about 81%

[2:17:44] of the acres I think now um are fully metered with automated systems and we

[2:17:49] didn't just put in a meter. A lot of cases we put control boxes in that and

[2:17:54] and uh field mapping software that gives them way more tools for for managing

[2:17:59] their irrigation and going variable rate, you know, like uh you know

[2:18:05] different sensors, brake sensors, everything like that. So um so they're

[2:18:08] saving water. We're saving probably um about 8% of the of the water uh but

[2:18:14] through conservation improvements and energy which is great on their end too

[2:18:18] cuz costs a lot for everything right now. Um but also we've we're getting

[2:18:24] compliance of 80 to 90% of the acres. So I've got real-time numbers now um every

[2:18:29] two weeks that tells me what our water use was. And these guys are getting

[2:18:34] pretty good at answering their email and telling me what their expected water

[2:18:37] consumption is for the next two weeks. So, so we're getting good forecasting

[2:18:41] information. Um, this was a song and dance. We did we got a $200,000 grant

[2:18:46] for it and with the producers contribution to it, it was easily a

[2:18:50] $400,000 project. And it's something that's going to save them a lot. But it

[2:18:54] looked pretty bad this spring when they really didn't we got everything

[2:18:57] installed and everybody trained up on it and 5 days into the season we had a

[2:19:01] cease order. So, um, and I mentioned this earlier, we're

[2:19:05] we're at least in year five of a significant drought. when you look at

[2:19:09] historical stuff, um it scares the crap out of everybody because there is some

[2:19:14] like very long periods of of no water. Um this is from David Sash's work. This

[2:19:19] is looking at like tree ring data um that he helped to rec reconstruct some

[2:19:24] of the climate data right back and and I and I know you guys had

[2:19:29] questions about how the aortionment works. So on the on the Milk River

[2:19:33] itself, my producers, everybody wa East is only able to use 25% of that natural

[2:19:39] flow. So that Montana water that's diverted is 100% Montana water. It goes

[2:19:45] for So we've got about 8,600 acres licensed on the water shed in in Alberta

[2:19:51] in the Milk River. There's about 105,000 acres on the Montana side that's

[2:19:56] directly the beneficiary of this water. So, and then the opposite happens on the

[2:20:02] St. Mary's. Again, there's 75% of the flow is entitled to Canada and only 25%

[2:20:07] to to the Americans. Um, and now with their, like I said, with their canel and

[2:20:14] uh the diversion and the siphons all being uh upgraded, uh those dry years up

[2:20:20] here, you know, the St. Mary's Irrigation District is a beneficiary of

[2:20:23] anywhere between 30 to 100,000 acre feet of water every year that's unaccounted

[2:20:29] for. that ends up into the into the dam and um way the modeling is working out

[2:20:36] about 25% of the years where they were benefiting in the past they won't moving

[2:20:41] into the future. So water is getting tighter everywhere.

[2:20:48] Um yeah and I know you wanted to know what

[2:20:52] what happened this spring. So everybody you probably heard the province was

[2:20:56] giving glowing saying that the headarters look good. we shouldn't have

[2:20:59] any issues. Didn't didn't you walk you drive through all the districts in

[2:21:03] district storage on the Canadian side here, all the reservoirs were in pretty

[2:21:07] good shape going into the spring. Uh the problem was low elevation. There was

[2:21:11] virtually no snow and we we saw it. We know it. Um our producers were working

[2:21:16] with up on the ridge, you know, hardly anybody had any runoff in the dugouts.

[2:21:20] Uh same thing happened in in in north in north central Montana. There were just

[2:21:25] was no there was no snow. Beaver dams up on the upper part of the s of the milk

[2:21:29] river that usually have water in them every year were totally dry going into

[2:21:33] the winter and never got any water all winter. Um so I was chicken little in

[2:21:38] January and February saying this is looking bad, this is really looking bad

[2:21:41] and then I had a few of my colleagues tell me that the St. Mary's is in good

[2:21:48] shape um with the Halls was on schedule for diver for all the repairs

[2:21:54] and that likely that the Americans were going to be able to use more than their

[2:21:57] entitlement of the St. Mary's water early in the spring. So up till May 15th

[2:22:01] they can take they can take another 4,000 acre feet of water um uh than

[2:22:07] they're entitled to. So more than their 25% if the conditions work out and then

[2:22:11] that water has to be repaid to the Canadian Milk River irrigators.

[2:22:15] Unfortunately, with the conditions that we had all winter, they actually had the

[2:22:20] drop water out of Sherburn Dam in December. The river came up quite a bit

[2:22:24] here. We had some ice jamming and um they're they were in really good

[2:22:29] condition in terms of full supply levels on their dams on Sherburn. And with the

[2:22:33] snow pack above, they told the Canadians in early May that we're not going to be

[2:22:38] able to develop a def deficit because we got more than enough American water. And

[2:22:43] sorry you guys are so and um so that so instead of us thinking that

[2:22:51] we're going to have about a 4,000 acre foot buffer plus the spring freshet if

[2:22:55] the rains came in April or May we had none of that. And um when you look back

[2:23:02] at the 2025 data, this the south fork of the Milk River, the main stem milk river

[2:23:07] was the lowest water volume in a full calendar year that had gone through in

[2:23:11] 100 years of recorded data. So that that drought shadow that we're under was

[2:23:16] still looking really bad this spring and no additional freshet, no water really

[2:23:21] ran through. We're in tough shape. Um our flows were sitting around 2 cubic

[2:23:27] meters per second early May. and uh we it wasn't enough to do

[2:23:32] anything. Cold temperatures, we didn't use any water at all for irrigators

[2:23:35] until probably around May 1st. Um the nighttime temperatures were were a

[2:23:39] little bit warmer and uh May 5th we hit zero flow on the Bel River. First time

[2:23:46] ever in that early in the season. So So cation order went in place from the IGC.

[2:23:51] They got together and I got to give it to Grant Hunter and Alberta Environment

[2:23:56] really went to bat for our guys. They tried to um uh they tried to get uh the

[2:24:03] Americans to move Canadian licensed water through the St. Mary's to give us

[2:24:07] a buffer and that we repay that water at the end of the season uh up to about

[2:24:12] 5,000 acre feet which would have been enough to bump along our ears at about

[2:24:16] 80% of what they'd usually get. um the Americans refused to enter it and

[2:24:22] our IGC commissioner commissioner from Canada did not support it. He's from

[2:24:28] Eric C. Just going to say that. Um so so cessation order.

[2:24:36] » Yeah. And there's up for re a new appointment. It's it's generally someone

[2:24:40] from Water Survey of Canada. It's important to go to these meetings

[2:24:45] coming up soon and talk about what your interests are. Um, yeah. So, cease order

[2:24:51] went in place. All my irrigators were shut off on May 15th. And between May

[2:24:55] 10th and May 15th, every single guy ran throttle up as much as they could and

[2:25:00] put as much water onto the land um, for better or worse. And, uh, and then we

[2:25:05] were off. um that huge rain event that we saw at the end of May um that south

[2:25:11] fork of the Milk River went from 1 to 2 cubic meters/s to 20. So it turned into

[2:25:17] a real river that um and that's the same thing that we saw July 1st in 2020 after

[2:25:23] the diversion failure happened as well too. And in 2020 we got about 2 and 1/2

[2:25:27] weeks of good uh flow ramped water that allowed our irrigators to bump along

[2:25:32] until the middle of July. And this one here is looking exactly the same. It's

[2:25:36] bumped. It's We're I think we're close to two weeks out now, right? And uh um

[2:25:41] we're probably we're still seeing uh three or four cubic meters in the river

[2:25:46] right now, which is enough that our area has been able to go. The IGC met last

[2:25:50] week. I was in on the meetings and they're going to probably putting a

[2:25:53] ceaseation order again at the end of this month, so by July 1st.

[2:25:59] Um so our guys are unfortunately are just up to whatever mother nature is

[2:26:04] going to give us the rest way. for the rest of the year, right?

[2:26:06] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[2:26:07] » Yeah. So, pumps will probably go silent on July 1st. Um the one other thing I

[2:26:11] wanted to mention that I've been got a couple calls, there was a niche and

[2:26:14] there's a and two other guys have phoned me now about it. Um last two years

[2:26:20] without the much water flowing in the in the canal there. So, that's the US

[2:26:25] border and that's the canal where the drop structures are that that that dark

[2:26:28] looks like a road, but it's actually a canal. It's dry. Um, Ralph Creek flows

[2:26:33] out of there to the north and you know it goes down by Taylorville and then

[2:26:36] eventually back out to the St. Mary's and a lot of guys are complaining

[2:26:40] because they're saying why is there no water in the creek? What the heck's

[2:26:42] going on? We heard there was a agreement in the 60s that they were they turn

[2:26:46] they're supposed to turn water out of the out of the canal to support natural

[2:26:50] flow and all this stuff. There's no agreement. There is a there is a turnout

[2:26:54] there. It's actually an emergency dry out turnout thing. It hasn't been open.

[2:26:58] Well, the reason why our our guys, our producers in that area have been

[2:27:03] beneficiaries for 100 years is because that canal is terrible and it seeps so

[2:27:06] damn bad. And and this year it's a little bit better. There's a little bit

[2:27:10] of flow coming down right now. Um and some of those wetlands and lakes are

[2:27:15] came up a bit from the rain, but also a bit of that. That's it. So, think about

[2:27:19] this one again in a couple years when that canal is fully redone and lined.

[2:27:24] there's not going to be any seepage and these guys are going to see what it

[2:27:27] looked like naturally again, too. So, um, and there's nothing I I double check

[2:27:31] to see if maybe there was something missed and there was something in in a

[2:27:36] an agreement or a letter or something that I could pull. There's not there's

[2:27:39] no way of me helping out your guys and there's no way of us getting water from

[2:27:42] that. So, um, yeah. So, an emergency situation, they're going to be the St.

[2:27:47] Mary's is the closest that they'd be able to pump basically. So,

[2:27:53] um, yeah. Uh,

[2:27:58] » yeah. Yeah. And, and especially Yeah. We're just going to be up to whatever

[2:28:02] Mother Nature's given us, and there's not much there. And we got generations

[2:28:05] that haven't seen, you know, what that that system looked like. Um, in August,

[2:28:12] I think it's going to be August 4th, but they haven't sent me an official and

[2:28:15] thing yet. The IGC is releasing there's a St. Mary's Milk River study that's

[2:28:19] been going on for 3 years now. It's been delayed a year. Um, this is going to

[2:28:24] model out structural things. So, this could potentially be a Forks Dam on

[2:28:30] that'll be right on near the county boundary there backing up water uh St.

[2:28:34] Mary for the North and South Fork and the Milk. This could also look at

[2:28:38] administrative changes that in the short term could actually help our guys out

[2:28:41] quite a bit. If we could move from every two weeks being a balancing period to an

[2:28:46] annual balancing period, then it would allow us for, you know, this wild

[2:28:50] weather events and everything, we get credit for it and we wouldn't have to

[2:28:52] balance out the water amounts until October 31st every year, which would

[2:28:57] really on our side of things would really help a lot. Um,

[2:29:02] and yeah, and and yeah, the other issue is that increasing to 850. I want I want

[2:29:07] uh maybe more so with the other counties farther down the river, but I think even

[2:29:11] on the North Fork, you guys really have to be aware of what's um that impacts

[2:29:16] going to look like for your producers and your infrastructure. Um and then

[2:29:20] yeah, I want to talk more about mitigation in the future. But yeah,

[2:29:24] that's but yeah, I'll make sure that the Murray gets uh an invite. Roger usually

[2:29:29] gets it too from our council updates. But um but yeah, I think it's important

[2:29:33] that you guys have a few county folks there. Yeah. Uh 21st of August, we're

[2:29:39] going to do another one of those headquarters tours. If you guys are

[2:29:41] interested, I'll make sure you get the invite early. Um just a bus, same thing,

[2:29:45] bus thinger. You can follow. >> Are all those beaver dams dry? Were

[2:29:48] they? >> Yeah. Now they're dry.

[2:29:49] » It's pretty wild. Like there is a little bit of water in spots.

[2:29:52] » The beaver dams are right off both sides of the road. You can see.

[2:29:54] » And they go for miles. They do go for miles.

[2:29:57] » Wow. >> Yeah. I I um I messed up. I apologize.

[2:30:02] I'll make sure that this next time I'll make sure I got someone speaking on both

[2:30:06] buses to kind of narrate it if we're driving. Um that was kind of one thing

[2:30:10] that some guys on the bus didn't like. Uh and at the sites I I yeah uh Tom Tom

[2:30:16] had some really good stories but he was a little quiet. So um anyways I'll make

[2:30:22] sure that it's narrated a little bit better this time around but it's for

[2:30:24] producers and for municipalities mal reps. So um we'll make sure that gets

[2:30:29] out. So, uh, that's kind of all I had formally. I

[2:30:34] don't know. You won't have a lot of time for questions, I'm sure. So,

[2:30:42] » very >> or they turn out to it's uh it's still

[2:30:47] got about it's supposed to be completed in the spring of 2027. So, we're we're

[2:30:51] it's ahead of schedule. They're doing really well. Um they shut down

[2:30:56] the diversion dam was the construction work at the diversion dam was shut down

[2:30:59] pretty much all winter because they were having they were actually fighting

[2:31:02] pretty hard just to keep the ground water out from the construction site but

[2:31:05] now they're above it and everything's looking really good. Um touchwood you

[2:31:10] know the if the old headgates work for the rest of the season then we're in

[2:31:13] good shape. Um but yeah that's that's coming good. St. the St. Mary's siphon

[2:31:19] itself they still got a bit more reclamation work do around there. Um the

[2:31:23] Hallscoolie they they were a month ahead of schedule because the because of the

[2:31:26] open winter again this year. Hles looks really good. Um and Hollie is

[2:31:31] another one. It was a bottleneck in the system as well cuz it was only uh I want

[2:31:36] to say it was only like a 7 foot diameter siphons the two barrels that

[2:31:40] went through Halls versus the 8ft diameter siphons up at the at the St.

[2:31:45] Mary's. So there was a restriction there and how much water they could move. um

[2:31:49] that's all been sized up to 850 now as well. Um the biggest concern I have and

[2:31:54] I I think I I should have maybe put this in here somewhere, but um all this

[2:31:58] construction that's happening like you saw you guys know what the bloody

[2:32:02] napweed looks situation looks like down there everywhere. Where's that one

[2:32:06] photo? I don't know where it is. Anyways, um

[2:32:10] uh all this construction is opened up. you

[2:32:14] know that that whole canal road all the way to drop five which is just above

[2:32:18] your county just just above whiskey gap um has moved Napede another 20 miles

[2:32:25] east than it really was before there was it always petered out after he got past

[2:32:29] Spider Lake and not farther east and uh and like I went with Rod years ago we we

[2:32:35] surveyed up the North Fork and took the zip the jetboat maybe a little too far

[2:32:39] into Montana and around but and and it was pretty clean on the North Fork

[2:32:43] besides you know, it it showed up more in the Delbanita campground from the odd

[2:32:47] guy stopping and along the highway there was occasionally plant, but napweed, it

[2:32:50] was pretty clean and you guys been very proud of that for a long time. Um, I

[2:32:55] think this is going to change if we're not real careful and pressure needs to

[2:32:58] be put on their municipal weed guys and the B at possibly at this meeting coming

[2:33:02] up in August to say make sure you've got mitigation strategies and it's not just

[2:33:07] you're going to have a someone go out there and spray in August once or twice

[2:33:11] for the next couple years. they really need to be on top of it. And if we're

[2:33:14] not on top of them, they're not going to be on top of it. So, so I'm I'm actually

[2:33:18] looking I might be able to get some grant funding here in the next little

[2:33:21] bit and I'll be working with some of the egg fieldmen to see if we can do a bit

[2:33:24] of monitoring and mitigation and some drone work if if they don't get shot

[2:33:28] down by the border guys. So, but but yeah, I think we need to watch out for

[2:33:32] it. So, it's not that's one >> increased flow, increased seating along

[2:33:36] the banks, right? >> Yeah. Well, that's just it. More

[2:33:38] disturbance areas, right? So, and it's in and out. So if that early spring and

[2:33:42] late fall, you've just got more exposed bank, it's more time for NAPE to get

[2:33:46] established and jump ahead of us. So >> I think

[2:33:51] » absolutely. Yeah. And no one's talking about it. And that's that's kind of the

[2:33:55] blind side that's scaring the crap out of me because it's it wasn't modeled out

[2:33:58] in any of the work that they're doing to look at these these innovations.

[2:34:02] So at what point do the uh rate payers that are along the roof they're

[2:34:07] irrigated at what point do they like at 8 if they get 850 that are they

[2:34:14] going to always be able to have irrigation?

[2:34:15] » No, they're not entitled to it. The only good thing that it would do is that in a

[2:34:20] drier year when when um when Montana's in tough shape and they need to move

[2:34:26] Canadian water, the extra Canadian water, there will be more years that

[2:34:29] they will be able to build a deficit because if they can physically only move

[2:34:34] 600 cfs of their water and they need 200 or 250 of the Canadian water to move it

[2:34:40] over, then then the meter starts with that with regards to a deficit and that

[2:34:46] has to be repaid to Canadian Milk River irrigators. That's the way it's under

[2:34:49] this called this letter of intent. Um yeah, but that's the only way that it

[2:34:53] actually benefits us in any way for our irrigators on the Canadian side.

[2:34:57] » There's nothing guaranteeing our >> not a damn thing.

[2:35:00] » No, >> they're going to

[2:35:05] Yeah. So, one interesting thing and again I went I said that Grant I had to

[2:35:09] tip my hat to Grant. Um he convinced I've never seen this before. He

[2:35:14] convinced the St. Mary's irrigation district to offer that 5,000 acre feet

[2:35:18] of water to be diverted in Montana to for the Milky Way areas. Olive branch,

[2:35:23] they know they're in good shape up here. It was a one time only thing. It's not

[2:35:26] like this was a open a foot in the door, but I think it's a foot in the door. And

[2:35:31] so, so I'm saying let's say we don't have $6 or $700 million to build a forks

[2:35:38] dam and it's not really going to benefit us significantly if we don't have zero

[2:35:42] water is zero water. If we just aren't getting flow flow in the spring, we're

[2:35:46] we're in trouble, too. But what if we could buy some capacity on their canal?

[2:35:52] So, right now, they're pretty much maxed out. Their infrastructure hasn't changed

[2:35:56] down in the Highline in Montana for the 100,000 acres. They really can't.

[2:36:00] There's only certain years that they can really benefit from that extra water,

[2:36:04] and it's only at certain periods of time. We want to mitigate it so that we

[2:36:07] don't have 850 in the river all the time.

[2:36:10] What if we bought 100 or 150 cfs of the capacity on the canal, not using

[2:36:17] American water that Trump would not allow, not be happy about the treaty if

[2:36:21] there was any kind of weird stuff happening there for us taking American

[2:36:24] water. But what if we were able to move Canadian water into the into the milk?

[2:36:28] What if we give them $100 million towards the upgrading of the canal

[2:36:33] infrastructure in the next five years and then and we have a hundred-year

[2:36:36] agreement to take the top capacity of the canal. And every like, well, that

[2:36:41] sounds great, Tim, but you're pie in the sky. And how do you where are you going

[2:36:44] to license in the water? What if it's St. Mary's Irriation District Water? We

[2:36:48] just went through this water availability engagement practices red uh

[2:36:53] removing the environmental holdbacks when license are transferred, all this

[2:36:56] other stuff. What if what if we get into bed with the St. Mary's Irrigation

[2:37:00] District down there and instead of just expanding the Milk River for private

[2:37:04] irrigators, the St. Mary's Irrigation District um moves water off the Milk

[2:37:09] River, say at the old Spite Ditch location at Milk River, moves north, and

[2:37:13] there's a 10 to 15,000 acre expansion there. It doesn't benefit Cardson County

[2:37:18] much, but it would in terms of there would be an opportunity for those

[2:37:22] existing licenses to be propped up and and and that new irrigation expansion in

[2:37:28] County Warner like 10,000 bucks an acre like my god it would be it would do a

[2:37:35] lot of interesting stuff. And instead of those expansions only happening in the

[2:37:40] grassy lake on native grassland that everybody else is kind of upset about,

[2:37:44] let's put the expansion on existing cultivated fields between Milk River and

[2:37:49] Warner that don't have salinity issues that are class 2 three soils. There is

[2:37:54] some really good spots here. So, and that would be a hell of a lot

[2:37:58] cheaper than building a $600 million dam. and the militana irrigators would

[2:38:03] be happy because right now they're on the hook for 80% of the cost of

[2:38:06] operating that canal. So if we're giving this to the Milk River Joint Border

[2:38:09] Control to do the upa updates, you know, there's some

[2:38:14] » Yeah. So this is this is my thing. This is no official thing by anybody, but I

[2:38:19] think there's some there's things to think about here and there's a short

[2:38:23] window of time because you guys all know how this is going to play out. The canal

[2:38:26] is going to have a major break in two years, maybe three years, maybe this

[2:38:30] summer. and they'll go straight back to the state and the federal government and

[2:38:35] try to get some emergency funding to reduce the impact on producers

[2:38:38] rightfully so and then we don't have that window opportunity to say Canada

[2:38:43] will come help anyways that's yeah

[2:38:48] » Tim you're a wealth of information on this topic yeah

[2:38:53] » amazing well thank you for keeping us posted and uh we got Roger on the

[2:38:59] watershed council, right? >> Yes.

[2:39:02] » Ross Ford. He's He's new to that. >> Ross has been there forever, but he's

[2:39:06] new on my executive. So, >> executive. Yeah.

[2:39:09] » John Ross. >> John Ross has been

[2:39:10] » there forever. >> Yeah. He's my He's my chairman.

[2:39:13] » Yeah. Chair Ross.

[2:39:19] » Yeah. Well, there's no money for it right now. They're going to need to

[2:39:22] pretty soon. At least another two have to be done. Innesota,

[2:39:26] » you have your August 21st. >> Where did you start at?

[2:39:30] » We're just going to go down to the probably the Hooks Hideway again down by

[2:39:33] Bab there >> and we'll park there.

[2:39:36] » Apparently I I didn't know but I paid for a dinner last year for everybody.

[2:39:40] There was a buffet dinner and nobody and only about 20 people out of the 80 that

[2:39:44] came actually stopped stepped inside the bar to go and eat it. So, and I was

[2:39:48] caught in my pants. I would run back and pay the bill the next day. But um

[2:39:53] anyways, long story short, yeah, we'll meet there. It'll just be an afternoon

[2:39:56] thing, so I'm not worrying about trying to get people across the border.

[2:39:58] » Noon 1. >> It'll be probably 1:00 and we'll wrap up

[2:40:02] by by 4:00 4:30 or something like that. >> It's pretty interesting to go see those

[2:40:05] drops. Are you telling me that the canal that feeds those drops, that's the canal

[2:40:10] that's getting rellined? >> Yeah. Yeah.

[2:40:13] » And that goes all the way to the diversion.

[2:40:15] » Yeah. That goes all the way from that 23 miles. It goes all the way from

[2:40:19] basically from the where the Hallschool or pardon me the St. Mary's

[2:40:23] » Yeah. >> siphon to Halls and then

[2:40:26] Hallschool all the way to to you know drop five kind of thing. So

[2:40:30] » Wow. >> Yeah. And this is and it's pretty it's

[2:40:34] cool to see that stuff down there. I I'm glad that some guys got to see the

[2:40:37] siphons before they pulled them because like that's pretty wild technology to

[2:40:41] think that guys in 1903 1905 >> surveyed this and figured out how to

[2:40:46] make this work and >> you know it just and it was a different

[2:40:51] world. Yeah. >> I wanted to send a picture of the

[2:40:53] blowout with Kyber cuz he >> We sent him We sent him one. We actually

[2:40:58] sent the picture of the blowout and the picture of him and John Ross standing

[2:41:02] together out on the on on the spot. like he was literally I have a picture of him

[2:41:05] standing on top of the same spot that blew out the following year. So yeah.

[2:41:11] » Yeah. >> Awesome.

[2:41:11] » So >> thanks so much.

[2:41:24] » Thank you. Appreciate it.

[2:41:29] Those folks that were talking today, you can relay. They probably already know

[2:41:34] that they're going to be dry for the rest of the year.

[2:41:40] » It's the way it is.

[2:41:44] » Yeah. to the American side.

[2:41:56] » You know, I I've talked to Grant and I talked to

[2:42:01] just, you know, download

[2:42:06] it. There's a lot of go through but like but you know

[2:42:14] you could you pencil that out paying for itself in 10 years there's no irriation

[2:42:19] expansion over that would allow you to pencil out that same investment return

[2:42:25] and the scare you would give us insulated and other people are they say

[2:42:31] well I don't want to go down on the heritage rangeand because we flood out

[2:42:36] 1700 acres of native rangeand and you know we'll have stuff that produces them

[2:42:40] to display the reason they're there to get it but this is this is a pretty good

[2:42:44] option it's conversation

[2:42:48] but yeah I encourage everybody comes to ITC I think it's the fourth I'll make

[2:42:52] sure you guys but

[2:43:02] » excellent

[2:43:06] answered your questions Americ

[2:43:23] that's talking about. But he did say that they they were going to put 5,000

[2:43:28] in there, but the Americans wouldn't do it and the Canadian feds wouldn't do it.

[2:43:32] » Oh, the feds wouldn't. >> Yeah. Wouldn't allow it.

[2:43:36] » Yeah. You will not let the secretary.

[2:43:49] So how do they how do they help for the

[2:43:56] ground fills up after 2 and 12 inches of rain in rain

[2:44:01] everywhere? How do they help that? That that's Canadian water.

[2:44:06] » Yeah. So

[2:44:09] » nice. >> So you said that the irrigated uh May

[2:44:15] 1st they were cut off. They weren't allowed to

[2:44:18] » then they said they extended it. They allowed them to start doing it again for

[2:44:21] » till then till July 1. >> July 1st when they're done.

[2:44:24] » So they go right now

[2:44:33] we can get all this less

[2:44:37] what we lots of stock in the head. >> Absolutely.

[2:44:44] » Yes.

[2:44:49] » I was just looking at everything that we have written here. I believe we're

[2:44:53] complete. Uh there was no motions that need to be

[2:44:56] made for anything that I'm aware of. We're j

June 22, 2026 Council Meeting SD 480p

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