[0:28] e e

[1:31] please stand for the

[1:34] pledge I pledge to the flag the United

[1:38] States of America to the Republic for

[1:40] which it stands one nation under God

[1:43] indivisible with liberty

[1:51] [Music]

[1:55] Justice good evening welcome to the town

[1:58] of Carmel January 9 2025 planning board

[2:02] meeting first up on our our agenda is a

[2:05] public hearing for Old Forge

[2:10] Estates Mike you had no comments correct

[2:13] I do not this is on for a public hearing

[2:16] okay en Rich same here no comments same

[2:19] here no comments very good thank you so

[2:23] with that we'll open up to the audience

[2:24] if anyone wishes to be heard on this

[2:26] please come up to the mic state your

[2:28] name

[2:33] good evening my name is Bruce Schwarz I

[2:35] live at 28 muscot North my property

[2:39] backs up against this proposed

[2:41] subdivision um I've lived there since

[2:45] 1981 and I'm here to request that no

[2:49] other approval be granted at this time

[2:53] um the developer and the engineer is

[2:55] aware that there's an adverse possession

[2:57] situation here involving the prop my

[2:58] property line and there

[3:00] and they haven't really come forward and

[3:03] tried to resolve it with me last time I

[3:05] heard from

[3:08] them

[3:09] was August of

[3:12] 21

[3:14] um and I just I don't want to see this

[3:17] get approved until this property line

[3:19] issue gets resolved when you say that

[3:21] there's an adverse Poss apologize I

[3:24] can't see I got a large man in front of

[3:26] me when you say that there's an adverse

[3:29] possession CLA is there been a uh a

[3:32] filing in Supreme Court not yet but my

[3:35] attorney has been in touch with

[3:38] that I can't see you can take the mic

[3:40] with you if you want okay but there's

[3:42] been no no filing not at this time okay

[3:46] I'm trying to resolve it before that

[3:48] understood thank

[3:54] you do you have anything else before

[3:57] well I mean I have some pictures I can

[3:58] tell you the whole history I don't know

[4:00] how much time you want to take on this

[4:02] but no we'll take whatever time just um

[4:04] Paul you want to respond to that he

[4:07] knows who I am he's been there yes no

[4:10] because we know we haven't heard

[4:11] anything of this nature there's been no

[4:14] correspondence to the board and uh was

[4:17] when they were in front of the board I

[4:19] guess it was three or four years ago and

[4:21] I tried to resolve the situation it

[4:24] hasn't gone anywhere they're making some

[4:25] crazy demands what they what they want

[4:27] me to pay for which I'm not willing to

[4:29] pay for like paying for the um

[4:32] resurveying of their development and so

[4:35] forth and so on paying for their

[4:37] attorney which I'm not going to do I'm

[4:39] willing to pay for my attorney and

[4:41] anything that pertains to me if I have

[4:43] to resurvey my property I'll be happy to

[4:45] do that but I'm not going to pay for

[4:47] what they should be paying for Bruce can

[4:49] you explain are you encroaching on their

[4:51] property or they encroaching on youring

[4:53] on there there's a map up front here if

[4:55] you can grab the microphone or pull you

[4:57] can point to it to show us where we're

[4:58] at in the world here please

[5:00] 4T their property I I understand but

[5:03] there's a drawing here so we understand

[5:04] where it Mr Schwarz right I'm Mr Schwarz

[5:07] okay so properties this is this is his

[5:10] property here and he has come back onto

[5:14] they can't see if you stand in front of

[5:16] it right one also he's cleared and and

[5:20] has a lawn area planted back in in in

[5:22] that area and that's what he wants to

[5:24] claim and you know basically steal so um

[5:28] bought the house in 198

[5:30] just use the microphone a little bit oh

[5:32] I'm sorry sorry when I bought the house

[5:34] in 1981 from the original owner who

[5:36] built the house he had pushed the tree

[5:39] line back 45

[5:41] ft um right at that tree line on my side

[5:45] of the tree line there's a drainage

[5:48] ditch Culvert whatever you want to call

[5:50] it there's a tremendous amount of uh

[5:52] groundw that comes down off the hill

[5:56] through my property and my neighbor's

[5:59] property

[6:00] and um I've maintained that all these

[6:03] years 3 years ago I had a contractor

[6:07] come in and restored because it wears

[6:10] away after a while from all the water

[6:12] and it's now lined with stone and rip

[6:14] wrap in there so my backyard doesn't

[6:16] flood anymore and that's one of the

[6:18] reasons you have the wetlands at the

[6:20] bottom of the hill on on um mus on uh

[6:22] balen Place Road cuz all this water

[6:24] comes down and it comes through our

[6:26] property so that drainage dishes in that

[6:30] 45 ft that I'm been maintaining for all

[6:33] these years um there was a vegetable

[6:36] garden there uh when I bought the house

[6:39] that I maintained for a couple of years

[6:40] and I didn't want to do it anymore so I

[6:43] did put a lawn in there and the fence

[6:45] that surrounded the vegetable garden

[6:47] which is about 80 ft is now and has been

[6:50] since then along the tree line so I have

[6:54] a fence up there and

[6:57] um at the end of my dra driveway I park

[7:01] I have four cars so I park cars there

[7:03] times I store firewood back there I I

[7:07] maintain the property I've been doing it

[7:08] for 44 years prior to these folks um

[7:12] with their proposal I guess you guys

[7:15] know there was other proposals for this

[7:16] property over the years that have never

[7:18] gone anywhere and um in all those years

[7:23] no one has ever come to me including

[7:25] these people and said hey you're I'm on your property you got to

[7:29] get off they've never said one word to

[7:31] me about that even when I informed them

[7:33] about that I've never gotten a letter

[7:35] nobody ever said to me you're

[7:38] encroaching so as far as I'm concerned

[7:40] you know it's my property so did did

[7:43] they come to you now and say your no I'm

[7:46] here tonight because I got the letter in the mail about the public hearing for

[7:50] this uh I didn't know where this was

[7:52] going there hasn't been any back and

[7:54] forth between us like I said since I got

[7:56] my attorney got this letter in um August

[7:59] of 21 when they asked me to pay for

[8:03] either part of or whatever resurveying

[8:05] their whole development there and

[8:08] wanting me to pay for

[8:10] their um their attorney fees which I'm

[8:12] not willing to do so what I'm what I'm

[8:14] getting at is so as as of right now

[8:15] nobody's asked you to vacate that

[8:18] property no okay so you're here you want

[8:20] to preemptively say hey I have adverse

[8:23] possession of this property yeah I I

[8:25] want to yeah it's the you have to go to

[8:27] the court to get this settled this has

[8:28] nothing to do with this board we don't

[8:30] move property lines unless I'm not

[8:32] asking you to move a property line but

[8:34] you are no I'm asking you not to give

[8:36] any more approvals until this is

[8:38] resolved but they can't there's nothing

[8:40] just so you understand so I can't hear

[8:42] you I'm sorry just so you understand so

[8:44] the board understands the board has um

[8:48] the right to rely on the submissions

[8:50] that have made by the applicant they're

[8:52] unopposed they're uncontested the board

[8:55] has the right to rely on the boundaries

[8:57] the meets and Bounds descriptions the

[8:58] survey

[8:59] and the certified documents that are

[9:01] before it absent in an injunction or

[9:05] anything else prohibiting this board to

[9:07] act the board has the legal right to

[9:09] move forward with respect to this even

[9:12] if myself comes up and say hey this is a

[9:14] problem here yes so I have

[9:18] to I have to I have to do

[9:22] what what is is there a survey on this

[9:24] property did yeah this is the survey

[9:26] there's a survey filed and everything on

[9:28] that property correct yes H Have you

[9:30] shared it with Mr

[9:32] Schwarz or would you share it with him

[9:34] yeah I mean it's public record a copy he

[9:38] could get a copy I suggest you get a

[9:40] copy of that

[9:41] survey well I I think it's a separate

[9:43] issue I mean he I don't think us taking

[9:46] action is going to affect you or your

[9:47] attorney's ability to go to court and to

[9:49] say hey look we've openly and

[9:51] notoriously occupied this property um

[9:54] and we have a right to it that that's a

[9:56] separate issue and I don't think it what

[9:58] we do affects that in any way but if you

[10:01] approve this and I go to court and they

[10:05] agree with me then you've approved an

[10:07] incorrect property line and the judge

[10:09] can move the line to where it's where

[10:10] you say it's supposed to be absolutely

[10:13] so ordered and it's not an issue of the

[10:15] Jud of the planning board approving

[10:18] something that's incorrect right now

[10:21] it's

[10:22] correct until such time as a court

[10:25] determines that it's not the planning

[10:28] board has the right to act on it so I

[10:30] just have to follow with the court to

[10:32] let them know that I want to do this and

[10:35] at that point you hold this up or what

[10:37] happens well listen none of us can give

[10:39] you legal advice I'm not asking for

[10:41] legal I just don't know what the process

[10:43] is I think you need to talk to your

[10:44] attorney um but what I'm trying to say

[10:46] is you've told me that nobody's telling

[10:49] you or trying to kick you off the

[10:50] property nobody has right so I think at

[10:53] this point it's really something your

[10:54] attorney has to go to court and say hey

[10:56] look we've we've occupied this land um

[10:58] you used a very specific term adverse

[11:01] possession it has a very specific

[11:02] meaning and your attorney could handle

[11:05] it but I don't think it really affects

[11:06] us and our ability to approve this

[11:09] project these two things can go in

[11:11] parallel I'm sorry these two issues can

[11:14] exist in parallel you can go to your

[11:16] attorney and and follow you know his

[11:19] advice and go do what he or she says

[11:23] so I mean I happen to be an attorney so

[11:25] that's

[11:26] okay I believe you so that's so there

[11:30] nothing else that you folks are going to

[11:31] do tonight with me telling you what's

[11:33] going on can I just ask one question if

[11:36] your adverse

[11:38] claim um were were approved does

[11:45] it affect anything in terms of the

[11:49] proposed construction no it won't affect

[11:53] doesn't affects that back we were we

[11:54] were maintaining a 100 foot buffer from

[11:56] the back of this lot to that to our

[11:58] property line you would have to come

[12:00] back with a Revis

[12:01] mapa no not if it's so ordered by a

[12:04] judge so I say go and a judge says this

[12:06] line is now here that's what the line is

[12:09] it gets filed that way and and the court

[12:11] and then County Clerk assuming that yes

[12:14] but you're saying that even if that

[12:16] happened your setbacks are okay correct

[12:19] okay we we don't know what the judge the

[12:21] judge could say come back to the

[12:22] planning word you could so order we

[12:24] don't know and we couldn't we shouldn't

[12:26] speculate I was trying to save everybody

[12:28] money and going to court with lawyers

[12:30] and so forth but they just haven't been

[12:32] responsive to

[12:34] this when was the last when was the last

[12:36] time your property was surveyed when was

[12:39] your property last surveyed well I guess

[12:41] when I bought it you know I haven't had

[12:44] it done since then and on the original

[12:46] plans does it state that that part of

[12:48] the property is in your in your plan say

[12:52] again when you bought the property and

[12:53] you had the land surveyed does it have

[12:56] that distinction in it that that it goes

[12:58] back that far Does it show the extra 45

[13:00] ft in my on my plan I'm sure it

[13:04] doesn't I'm sure it doesn't so you're

[13:06] just going by what the former owner had

[13:08] taken a you know um he's the one who did

[13:10] all that Poss of

[13:13] okay I'm done all right unless you have

[13:20] any other questions or comments okay

[13:22] thank you very much thank

[13:25] you anyone else in the audience wish to

[13:28] be heard my name yes

[13:31] I'm I'm at 38 M North and uh I been

[13:37] there since uh

[13:40] 2008 and uh my situation is exactly like

[13:44] this like a situation my situation is

[13:48] the the property line was pushed back I

[13:50] believe when they built the house that's

[13:52] what I believe because when I bought the

[13:55] property the property is exactly the way

[13:58] I bought it

[13:59] I there's a loan I take care of the loan

[14:02] and everything I thought that was my

[14:04] property but eventually it's not so and

[14:10] the and I saw the the the blueprint the the prince or whatever and the they

[14:18] try to build a house right right next to

[14:20] mine right there like proba 30 ft for my

[14:23] house why can't they push the house back

[14:26] more because there's a lot of space why

[14:28] they have to build the house house right

[14:29] on top in on top of

[14:31] mine so so what's your address and

[14:34] what's your name again and Paul could

[14:36] you show us where his piece of property

[14:37] is my name is Manuel Oliva okay are you

[14:42] just downhill of Mr

[14:43] Schwarz no it's up you're uphill yeah

[14:46] uphill and your address is excuse me

[14:49] your address 38 38 38 mus North and plus

[14:53] there's a drainage that comes on the top

[14:56] of my house from this right from the

[14:58] street

[14:59] my my property down the back right to

[15:03] the to his backyard isn't there 100 foot

[15:06] buffer at that there's 100 foot buffer

[15:08] to the property line and the houses are

[15:09] farther away than that it's going to be

[15:11] more than 100 ft from your house from

[15:14] your property line excuse me the house

[15:16] that they're going to propose is more

[15:18] than 100 fet from the property

[15:21] line I don't think so yes yeah it is cu

[15:25] it looks like it's right there right the because I I saw once and looks

[15:31] like it's right there the property

[15:33] Line's 100 ft and then they have to be

[15:34] set back from that from the property L

[15:37] is going to be 100t more than 100 more

[15:39] than 100 right 100t to the property line

[15:41] then they have setback requirement to

[15:42] the to the house so it's more than 100t

[15:45] away side right there yeah this from

[15:47] here to here is 100 ft and obviously the

[15:49] houses are farther away right but that's

[15:52] from the property line not from your

[15:54] purported where you're maintaining grass

[15:56] so but it's 100 ft from the property

[15:58] line that's a distinction that needs to

[16:00] be known as the board is already aware

[16:02] but you need to be made aware of that

[16:03] but Paul do we have the same situation

[16:06] as on the former gentleman it would not

[16:09] impact us okay how about the theage

[16:12] because the has to stay there because

[16:14] the otherwise going to flood my house is

[16:15] going to flood everything because the the water comes from the up the hill

[16:19] comes down there's a on the side on my

[16:23] goes to the backyard and go goes

[16:27] down you have to keep the

[16:31] there existing conditions there's

[16:32] nothing that we're doing on that inside

[16:34] of the property so we wouldn't be

[16:36] changing anything you should go there

[16:38] should we wouldn't be discharging over

[16:39] there so there's there is no we're not

[16:41] going to create any

[16:43] impact but they are

[16:48] creating the

[16:51] microphone we already pretty much there

[16:53] is an impact

[16:55] now there is an impact now and has been

[16:58] by the ground water that comes down our

[17:00] side of that piece of property it runs

[17:02] behind Manny's house and through this

[17:04] drainage ditch on my house and then it

[17:06] goes down through the bii's house and it

[17:09] winds up at bald and Place Road and I'm

[17:11] sure it shows Wetlands all at the bottom

[17:13] of bald and place road down there on the

[17:15] muscot North side cuz it's a swamp down

[17:18] there and that's where the water comes

[17:20] from it comes from the top of the hill

[17:22] they tried to tell me a couple of years

[17:23] ago that the water was coming from

[17:26] Manny's gutters off of his house which

[17:29] is absurd you know the amount of water

[17:32] that comes down and the at the speed it

[17:34] comes down it's it's what is the

[17:38] significance of that what is the

[17:40] significance of the fact that there's

[17:41] water coming down I'm sorry what is the

[17:44] significance of the fact that there's

[17:46] water coming down floods out our

[17:48] backyard I I I understand but what does

[17:50] that have to do with this public hearing

[17:53] it's coming from their

[17:54] property it's on their property where it

[17:57] originates and is it changed over the

[18:00] years

[18:01] no existing condition that's why I said

[18:05] I had to maintain the Swale on my

[18:07] property that I just loaded upward rip

[18:09] wrap to keep my back back backyard from

[18:11] flooding out so the the the runoff that

[18:14] you've gotten previously is it because

[18:17] of anything they did on the property or

[18:19] because of the topography I think it's a

[18:21] topography you know cuz like I said I'm

[18:23] there 44 years and it hasn't changed

[18:26] okay you know and in the spring if we

[18:30] have snow all that water runs off if

[18:32] it's a heavy rain I mean the Swale my

[18:35] Swale is that

[18:37] deep and it comes right up to the

[18:41] top but that basically goes back just to

[18:43] the adverse claim ision

[18:49] right okay thank

[18:55] you is there anyone else in the audience

[18:57] that wish to be heard on on

[19:02] this okay with that

[19:05] um I would need a motion to close the

[19:07] public

[19:09] hearing I'll make a motion to close the

[19:11] public hearing I second um all in favor

[19:15] I I thank you Pat would you prepare a

[19:19] preliminary cluster subdivision

[19:20] resolution for preliminary approval yes

[19:22] we will and just to be clear that that

[19:25] approval will carry with it a storm

[19:26] water management plan that addresses all of the storm order impacts

[19:30] associated with the development of the

[19:31] site not an existing condition that may

[19:33] be a pre-existing circumstance

[19:35] understood thank

[19:39] you okay next up on the agenda is

[19:42] Gilmore Michael and Thomas

[19:44] 153 shindan Hill Road Paul Lynch from

[19:48] putam engineering this is a proposed uh

[19:51] two lot subdivision we presented two

[19:54] plans one is a sketch plan number one

[19:58] the other is sketch plan number two

[20:00] sketch plan number one meets all the

[20:03] zoning requirements in the town in terms

[20:06] of lot depth lot width lot

[20:11] area for both

[20:15] Lots sketch plan number

[20:17] two is a much more

[20:20] simplified geometric

[20:23] shape and we fall short on our lot

[20:26] widths so if we were to go with sketch

[20:29] subdivision plan number two that would

[20:31] require variance for lot width from the zoning board my preference is

[20:36] this plan PL plan number two because

[20:39] it's a much more simplified geometric

[20:41] layout you don't end up with it

[20:44] appendage in the back of what would be

[20:46] this lot and then that just becomes

[20:48] forgotten land it it

[20:50] just this is just a cleaner layout but

[20:53] it it needs the variance and that's just

[20:56] the way the town ordinance has us

[20:58] calculate lot width we go to the

[21:00] midpoint of the front we go to the

[21:02] midpoint of the back draw a line get to

[21:05] the midpoint there make 290 degrees and

[21:07] that's where we take our measurement

[21:09] Paul before before we go any further

[21:11] thank you for that explanation I just I want to hear from the consultant sorry

[21:15] uh Mike you had a memo on this correct

[21:17] yeah uh what he said is true one of the

[21:18] plans complies the other one doesn't the

[21:20] one that doesn't comply is a more

[21:24] convention accurate you know it's

[21:26] straighter lines everything works out

[21:27] better but

[21:29] um it's really up to them to decide if

[21:31] they want to do the the straight lines

[21:33] and go for the variances or go with the weird shape

[21:37] and and deal with it and Rich you had a

[21:40] memo on this as well correct so again I

[21:42] think the applicant's here to discuss

[21:44] the layout first before they move

[21:46] forward um you know there's some basic I

[21:49] don't have objection to the subdivision

[21:50] being presented in either way it's

[21:52] really the applicant's decision and then

[21:54] the planning board's decision there are

[21:56] standard comments there licensed you

[21:58] know survey the property um you know

[22:01] they'll pay Recreation fee they'll have

[22:03] to come back with all the normal

[22:06] subdivision plans going forward thank

[22:09] you did you have anything yeah I did um

[22:12] what I would say Mr chairman is so it's

[22:14] not your job to pick and choose an

[22:16] applicant's project so Paul should have

[22:18] selected an alternative that he

[22:20] preferred I heard him say it tonight and

[22:22] advance that he could have shown the AL

[22:24] the other alternative to defend his

[22:26] position with respect to the alternative

[22:27] but we shouldn't the plan that was

[22:29] submitted in either or is an

[22:31] unacceptable condition for the board you

[22:33] should have what the applicant prefers

[22:35] to advance as the plan before you um so

[22:38] now that we know he's pref prefers the

[22:40] conventional plan um I would suggest

[22:43] remove the other plan from the drawing

[22:44] poll and advance that plan and variances

[22:47] are required OB and variances would be

[22:49] required um there's a few technical

[22:51] comments with respect to that but um

[22:54] give us information about site distances

[22:56] at the driveway the typical things but I

[22:58] noticed Paul that there's a it looks

[23:00] like there's a yeah a road or something

[23:03] that's depicted in the back what's that

[23:05] about there was a file map I think it

[23:08] was number 749 that dates back

[23:11] forever um where there was a logging

[23:14] trail that came through this lot went

[23:18] onto the adjoining subdivision property

[23:21] and then circulates and comes all the

[23:23] way back to the Gilmore

[23:25] property so there was a file map that

[23:28] had has this logging Trail uh they call

[23:31] it as depicted Road um but it benefits

[23:35] nobody and our clients are actually

[23:37] working with I believe this property

[23:39] owner to have it extinguished because it

[23:41] serves no benefit is there easement or

[23:44] anything PA in place or is it just on a

[23:46] map on a

[23:49] map

[23:51] yeah so it's not written in the

[23:55] deed uh generally hand was it a

[23:59] handwritten handr it it dates back to

[24:02] like the 1800s and it was a handwritten

[24:05] so it's in the

[24:07] schedule no it got lost over time but

[24:10] it's referenced it's not in the meets

[24:12] and balances schedule for the pro no

[24:14] okay yeah Paul I think so it would be

[24:17] our preference to make that go away yes

[24:19] so I can work with Joe and find out the

[24:21] right mechanism to make it go away

[24:23] because in essence it's an easement to

[24:25] get from this part of their property to

[24:28] the back part of their property which

[24:30] crosses over an adjoining neighbor and

[24:33] it it's not required it's not needed and

[24:36] it serves no benefit at this point in

[24:38] time so you confused me you just said

[24:41] it's an easement so there is an easement

[24:43] well well it's it's it's on a file map

[24:46] okay so it's

[24:49] yeah you're just referring to it in

[24:51] eement yes okay generic I got you okay

[24:58] so you you'll have to you know revise

[25:00] corre back with your preferred plan

[25:02] we're going to come back with this

[25:03] remove that trail from it whatever you

[25:06] can and then we'll we'll take it to the

[25:08] next step

[25:09] okay any other comments

[25:12] questions all right thank you very

[25:15] [Music]

[25:20] much thank you

[25:33] Pat we would uh hold till we see the

[25:36] revised plan we wouldn't be declare it

[25:38] anything right okay all right next up on

[25:41] the agenda is uh Frey subdivision this

[25:44] is on for a

[25:55] resolution Jack there we go John Carell

[25:59] representing Scott fry and we're I

[26:03] understand we're up for a

[26:05] resolution yes sir that be nice Mike you

[26:08] had no comments correct yeah this is on

[26:11] for resolution all my comments have been

[26:14] addressed okay Rich no comments it's on

[26:17] for a resolution the only thing that was

[26:18] outstanding was a bond uh that's

[26:20] supposed to be included in the

[26:21] resolution I sent that information to

[26:23] Pat but both Pat and I did not bring the

[26:25] numbers Jack if you remember it we'd

[26:27] like to have it written in but otherwise

[26:29] it was something like $115,000 with a

[26:31] $5,000 engineering fee but it was

[26:34] submitted by Jack and approved by the

[26:35] engineering department it just came late

[26:37] in the week so that needs to be included

[26:39] as part of the resolution so or should

[26:42] be do you remember the number jack off

[26:44] no so what I would suggest is you can say at the number that was

[26:49] agreed upon by the engineers okay right

[26:52] now there's a placeholder in the

[26:53] resolution so you can just reference

[26:55] this okay agreement so you have two

[26:58] resolutions Mr chairman thank you the

[26:59] neg deck and the subcision approval does

[27:02] the board have any

[27:04] questions if not I'll need a motion

[27:06] sorry was there if not I'll need a

[27:08] motion to adopt the secret negative

[27:10] declaration

[27:12] approval uh I'll offer the uh resolution

[27:15] of the planning board of town of Carmel

[27:17] number

[27:18] 25-3 January 9 20

[27:21] 2025 tax map number

[27:24] 74121 d33 phrase subdivision Seeker

[27:28] determination of signif significance

[27:31] negative declaration second all in favor

[27:36] I okay I'll I'll need a motion to adopt

[27:38] final subdivision approval with a

[27:40] placeholder for the fees agreed to by

[27:43] the engineering department Mr chairman

[27:45] I'll make a a uh resolution uh final

[27:49] subdivision approval resolution of the

[27:50] planning board of the town of Carl

[27:53] number

[27:54] 25-4 January 9 2025 tax M number

[28:00] 74121 d33 fry

[28:04] subdivision second all in favor I I okay

[28:09] thank you thank you all

[28:26] right Jack please don't bre the

[28:35] equipment you're up too Jack

[28:38] next

[28:42] okay next up on the agenda is uh

[28:46] Franco cury PMA 108 Barrett Hill

[28:52] Ro we'll take a pause you're only on for

[28:56] Resolutions you may not on for a

[28:59] resolution we may not get to look we

[29:02] need an engineer to

[29:05] help Jack that was good that's true

[29:08] there we go I'll get down don't breathe

[29:11] next we okay so this is on for this is

[29:14] on for a resolution uh Mike I believe

[29:17] you had no comments as well no comments

[29:19] on this this is a regrading and it's on

[29:21] for

[29:22] resolution well comments have been

[29:24] addressed there you have the regrading

[29:26] resolution before you Mr chairman thank

[29:28] you P so I'll need a motion to adopt de

[29:30] grading appr there any questions from

[29:32] the board we have any on this then I'll

[29:35] need a motion to adopt a regrading

[29:37] approval resolution Mr chairman I'll

[29:39] offer the resolution of the planed Board

[29:41] of town to call M number 25 tx07 dated 9

[29:44] January 2025 reference tax ma number 53

[29:47] decimal 17 Tac 1 t27 108 that's 108

[29:51] Barrett Hill Road regrading plan second

[29:55] all in favor thank you okay thank you

[29:58] very much hope I can keep going don't

[30:22] tou

[30:23] okay next up on uh the agenda is America

[30:28] Sereno 206 East Lake Boulevard this is

[30:32] on for uh final site plan

[30:36] resolution all my comments have been

[30:38] addressed this is on for final

[30:40] approval same here and you have a

[30:43] resolution Mr chairman thank

[30:46] you anything you have for the

[30:48] board any questions from the board on

[30:51] this no no okay then I'll need a motion

[30:53] to adopt final site plan

[30:56] approval uh Mr chair I'll offer the

[30:58] resolution of the planning board of the

[31:00] town of Carmel number

[31:02] 25-06 uh January 9th

[31:05] 2025 tax map number 65.1

[31:09] 17-16 Sereno Boat House 206 East Lake

[31:13] Boulevard final site planine thank you

[31:16] all in favor

[31:17] I thank

[31:19] you a thank you

[31:37] good okay next up we have uh Marcel

[31:40] cerillo 1849 Route 6 this is on for a

[31:44] final site plan approval

[31:49] resolution good

[31:52] evening okay again this is on for a

[31:54] resolution like yet no comments same

[31:57] it's on for a resol res olution all my

[31:58] comments have been addressed okay all

[32:01] comments addressed and you have the

[32:03] resolution thank

[32:06] you any questions from the bo

[32:11] no

[32:13] missing don't have I don't

[32:18] know do you have the resolution he's got

[32:22] it you's got it he's got it okay let's

[32:26] make sure

[32:36] okay both Mr chairman I make a

[32:40] resolution to approve tax map number

[32:42] 55-1

[32:44] 0-1 D16 cillo 1849 Route 6 final site

[32:49] Fran approval second all in favor

[32:54] I thank you are you all set thank you

[32:57] very much thank you thank

[33:01] you wanted a two recess with yeah we're

[33:04] going to take a quick recess just to set

[33:05] up for the next uh

[33:26] applicant

[33:56] e e

[36:16] okay um we're going to continue now next

[36:19] on the agenda is New York smsa limited

[36:24] partnership doing business as Verizon

[36:26] Wireless Glen Common

[36:28] Lake um this is on for a to adopt a

[36:33] secret negative declaration

[36:39] resolution I believe we have no comments

[36:41] from Mike I have no comments it's on for

[36:43] Seeker same here no comment and you have

[36:45] the draft resolution before you Mr

[36:47] chairman thank you um Mr gordos anything

[36:50] you want to just go

[36:53] over I have a little trouble hearing you

[36:55] but if the question was whether I had

[36:58] any comments uh no we do not thank you any questions or comments from

[37:02] the

[37:04] board okay if not then I will need a

[37:07] motion to adopt the Seeker negative

[37:08] declaration

[37:12] resolution Mr chairman I'll make a

[37:14] motion to adopt the resolution of the

[37:16] planning board of the town of Carmel

[37:17] 25-2 January 9th

[37:20] 2025 tax map

[37:22] 87.5 d190 or- 90 New York uh LED

[37:27] partnership doing business as Verizon

[37:29] Wireless and Homeland Towers LLC Glen

[37:32] aoma Lake site plan secret determination

[37:35] of significance negative

[37:36] declaration I second okay what we'll do

[37:40] here we're going to need a roll call

[37:41] vote so Pat would you take the roll call

[37:43] please

[37:46] sure uh let's go John hi for Bob hi Ray

[37:52] hi Vicki hi Nick hi Mr chairman hi 60

[38:01] thank you for your time this evening all

[38:02] right thank

[38:08] you go back to

[38:14] that okay uh Centennial uh has been

[38:17] removed from the agenda um so we'll move

[38:20] on to uh site plan uh Carl residential

[38:24] 119 Seminary Hill Road this is a Central

[38:27] site plan

[39:12] good evening

[39:16] um want say yeah uh Zach Pearson Insight

[39:19] engineering here on behalf of the owner

[39:21] uh NES LSC LLC uh for karma residential

[39:25] um just a I guess I could ref fresh

[39:27] where we left off with you guys uh

[39:29] before you in October uh heard the

[39:32] board's concerns got the consultant memo

[39:35] comments um heard that you know the

[39:38] visual aspect or Aesthetics of this was was an issue that we needed to study

[39:42] further um studied a or did an

[39:44] additional balloon test in a leaf off

[39:46] condition um and provided an updated uh

[39:50] Aesthetics resources can I just pause

[39:53] you there yeah thank you um Mike you

[39:56] want I know you memo comments first I

[39:59] have to correct the first comment I said

[40:00] is there a reason they only answered two

[40:02] of my comments there were two separate

[40:04] replies I only saw the one I think it

[40:06] was for the subdivision not for the site

[40:08] plan so they did answer them but they I

[40:11] spoke to Mike in Highway uh Mike Stern I

[40:14] asked him about the road and he said

[40:16] he's not interested in having a road of

[40:17] that nature so I don't know if you can

[40:19] talk to your client they don't want to

[40:21] maintain this road so um they can go

[40:23] back to design this as a um not as a

[40:27] Private Road ASO as opposed to a town or

[40:29] whatever kind they were going to do and

[40:31] the other thing was we spoke about the

[40:34] fire department

[40:36] um I can't think who I spoke to in your

[40:38] office Don yeah and Don said they spoke

[40:40] to the fire department I just asked for

[40:42] something writing for the file that's so

[40:44] we can put it in there otherwise all the

[40:46] other answers we discussed and uh we

[40:48] were talking about buffers by the

[40:49] basketball court it looks like they're willing to do something over

[40:52] there yeah we did some uh vegetative

[40:55] screening on there I believe it's 35 ft

[40:58] and planted you know yeah if you live

[41:00] next door and there's a kid out there

[41:01] boing boing all day that could drive you

[41:03] a little nuts so I guess that's pretty

[41:05] much why I was asking for that right and

[41:06] we just we did meet with the fire

[41:08] department ahead of our initial

[41:10] submission um that was kind of

[41:11] summarized in our first submission but

[41:14] we can certainly get that in writing and

[41:15] they'll just give you tips on where to

[41:16] put the hydrants and maybe if they have

[41:19] a problem you turn around you know that

[41:20] would be the only other

[41:22] issue all the stuff was on the plans

[41:24] already but we we can get their

[41:26] clarification yeah something about

[41:27] additional parking spaces as well

[41:29] correct yeah they did that though they

[41:30] added additional parking and they have

[41:32] parking by the clubhouse as well so

[41:34] there is additional um gas parking just

[41:36] real quick we added uh three spaces up near the turnaround this this was

[41:40] additional parking that was added in

[41:42] this location and we pushed a little bit

[41:43] out there as well I forget the total

[41:45] additional I think it was a 12 or it's a

[41:47] bunch but it's not required it's just

[41:49] that every one of these developments I

[41:51] get the calls my neighbor had a party

[41:53] and there were cars parked up and down

[41:55] the road and we couldn't get by and you

[41:56] know so that's why I asked for a little

[41:58] extra maybe in the new code when we're

[42:00] doing it we're going to require an extra

[42:01] half a spot per unit that'll that'll fix

[42:03] it

[42:06] too you have anything else

[42:10] mik that's it I'm sorry rich I you had

[42:13] well I I have comments this is still in

[42:15] a preliminary phase on the grand

[42:17] scheming thing so two applications were

[42:18] submitted one is for a subdivision one

[42:21] is for a site plan I'm pretty anal I

[42:23] like to have the whole subdivision no

[42:25] matter what's backing it up be as an

[42:27] entire package in this case I had to uh

[42:30] go back and forth between the site plan

[42:31] and whatnot and so kind of addressing

[42:33] what Mike said he was answering

[42:35] questions that he asked but they would

[42:37] answered in the site plan versus the

[42:38] subdivision so it was kind of a little

[42:40] confusing that way and would' like to

[42:42] have a submission as a full submission I

[42:44] know it kills more trees but it keeps it

[42:47] clean um as for the

[42:50] subdivision um you know there's comments

[42:53] there that need to be moving forward uh

[42:55] but it's more the site plan that we want

[42:57] to talk about uh they've uh started

[43:00] addressing the comments the road is one

[43:02] of the big issues um uh that I guess

[43:05] Mike just talked to superintendent Stern

[43:07] about ownership uh if you know the other

[43:11] thing is is is the town going to own the

[43:13] water and sewer here right if it's not

[43:14] going to be a Town Road the town may not

[43:16] take ownership of the water and sewer

[43:18] that's the thing uh the storm water

[43:20] infrastructure would be the homeowners

[43:22] association um you have those type of

[43:25] issues that kind of need to be talked

[43:27] about and addressed uh the other P issue

[43:29] is in in one of my in my memo for the

[43:31] site plan uh

[43:33] ultimately both the sewer and water

[43:35] we're going to and for traffic we're

[43:37] going to ask for escrow to be put up so

[43:39] that it can be assessed it's not

[43:40] assessing the plan that inside is put

[43:43] forward they know what they're doing

[43:44] with that it's an assessment of the

[43:46] capacity of our infrastructure uh that

[43:49] sewage is going to go to a pump station

[43:51] don't know if that pump station is

[43:53] sufficient for it we did that for

[43:55] Centennial this isn't the first time

[43:57] we've looked at that when you have uh

[44:01] you know subdivisions and site plans of

[44:04] this nature it's a different ball game

[44:06] single family homes or four five

[44:08] bedroomroom homes different story than

[44:10] what they're adding here so that

[44:12] assessment of our infrastructure needs

[44:14] to really be looked at um we have you

[44:16] know again we have a comprehensive plan

[44:18] that's coming out there that says you

[44:20] know build baby build uh in in our sewer

[44:23] and water areas but our sewer and water

[44:24] areas can only handle so much can only

[44:27] give you so much water I can't you can't

[44:29] turn on the tap and have more water

[44:30] Vicki can attest to that over on Duke

[44:32] Drive she has her issues when they built

[44:34] that over there right so those are the

[44:37] bigger comments that need to be looked

[44:38] at so I would recommend maybe starting

[44:40] with the escrow to move forward with

[44:42] sewer and water I think the road

[44:44] dedication is a big thing maybe they

[44:45] want to meet with the superintendent the

[44:47] suggestion on the road dedication if

[44:49] it's not going to be dedicated to the

[44:50] town I would still build at the Town

[44:52] specs someday in the future maybe the

[44:55] future the next superintendent may want

[44:57] it but it you know it'll be a different

[44:59] animal and they have to do more work as

[45:01] a homeowners association put the money

[45:03] up front now then they don't have to

[45:04] worry about it in the future but again

[45:07] that's up to the developer and that's up

[45:08] to all the various people that'll be

[45:10] involved that's what I got right now all

[45:13] right thank you and in October Mr

[45:15] chairman when they made the initial

[45:16] submission the first thing you started

[45:18] considering was how to deal with Seeker

[45:20] um so obviously you have two routes to

[45:22] pursue an application like this moving

[45:24] toward a negative declaration or a

[45:26] positive declaration where they would do

[45:27] a full environmental impact statement

[45:29] this is a large project so you've given

[45:31] the the developer the benefit of the

[45:33] doubt by saying we have some issues tell

[45:35] us about those issues so the first and

[45:37] foremost one related to the aesthetic

[45:39] issues associated with the project so

[45:41] Zach I'm sure he'll talk about it in a

[45:43] minute they've done some work with

[45:44] respect to that it needs to be done

[45:45] there's a little more work that needs to

[45:47] be done with respect to that um but I

[45:49] think it would be prudent to bring in as

[45:51] Rich indicated our um engineering

[45:54] consultants and our traffic Consultants

[45:55] to help us with the disc discuss of

[45:57] whether they need an impact statement or

[45:59] not um so that's an ongoing conversation

[46:02] um and I think that's that's in the

[46:05] meantime we can make progress on some of

[46:07] these technical issues as well so we're

[46:08] not delaying anybody or anything but

[46:11] ultimately you're going to have to get

[46:12] your arms around whether or not you we

[46:14] requiring an environmental impact

[46:16] statement or not thank

[46:18] you yeah just

[46:21] to a couple things what's what BR what's

[46:24] the mechanism for the escrow to get that

[46:26] started just is it through the board

[46:28] well Rose will be in on Monday you work

[46:30] with rose I think there's a a value of

[46:32] typically 7500 bucks for each of I don't

[46:34] know what we do for traffic but for

[46:35] water and sewer it's about 7 500 bucks

[46:38] you'll submit all the paperwork uh as

[46:40] part of what you're doing specifically

[46:42] for water and sewer which you have

[46:44] individual reports but you need the

[46:46] supporting documentation for it they'll

[46:48] review that make comments to it and then

[46:51] you'll have to start addressing those

[46:52] comments yeah that's fine so it's it's kind of like the traffic consultant

[46:56] we sit down

[46:57] SE just to ref I mean we provided an

[47:00] expanded eaf with our initial submission

[47:02] that was I don't know how many pages it

[47:04] was 300 Pages you know the traffic

[47:07] discussion is is in there and address

[47:09] well we no we think it's addressed the

[47:12] visual analysis which we heard at the

[47:14] initial meeting from you guys was a was

[47:16] a concern that needed more information

[47:18] and we provided some and we can talk

[47:20] about that you know there there's a lot

[47:22] of documentation there that we really

[47:24] haven't gotten a lot of comments on on

[47:27] to date and I know that the water and

[47:29] sewer is going to be you know pushed out

[47:31] to Consultants with escar i i we totally

[47:34] understand that but there's a

[47:36] significant amount of info there so I'll

[47:38] confirm they they submitted a a quality

[47:40] package of information but we need to go

[47:42] through that in a very deliberate

[47:44] methodical manner to make sure we're

[47:46] making the right decisions here so oh

[47:48] it's not criticism Zach what you

[47:49] submitted it's that we may need to

[47:51] repackage that or or develop it in a in

[47:53] a more thorough manner understood

[47:57] so just if you want me to get into the

[47:59] visual stuff a little bit or I can take

[48:02] questions from the board however yeah

[48:03] let's take some

[48:04] questions um it anybody have any

[48:07] questions the uh basketball court how

[48:10] close is it to the closest

[48:15] structure existing yeah my eyes are to

[48:19] the left is exis yeah I that's

[48:23] like over 100 fet over 100 ft the

[48:28] existing this existing building here

[48:29] yeah it's 100 ft topographically is it

[48:32] higher or lower I think would be higher

[48:34] right we're yeah we're above them you

[48:36] were above above correct

[48:38] yep can you turn to the page that uh

[48:42] shows the uh you had sketched in uh a

[48:46] roof line from the view from Route Six

[48:49] yeah absolutely the the visual yeah yeah

[48:52] yep

[49:14] I think that's it no this this is from

[49:17] Street

[49:20] no okay okay okay got it

[49:29] right and I think this was actually one

[49:30] of Pat's comments number 10

[49:33] so this label proposed Town Homes Beyond

[49:36] right so these trees that you see

[49:39] directly behind PTY this is the

[49:42] elevation of the buildings Beyond those

[49:44] trees that you see right tight to the

[49:46] back of the existing development the the solid line is the the new

[49:52] developments roof line excuse yes the

[49:55] solid blue line is is the buildings

[49:57] placed where they would sit looking

[49:59] Beyond right the red dots is the grade

[50:02] but as you can see in the image

[50:04] obviously like this one's an easy one

[50:06] for example right there's not going to

[50:07] be a building over top of an existing

[50:08] building it sits behind those behind

[50:11] this building behind the trees that are

[50:13] right tight to the back of the

[50:14] development but but there's a there's an

[50:17] extensive amount

[50:19] of new development at just below the

[50:22] bridge line that will be visible from

[50:25] Route Six that

[50:27] is not there now right no the there's

[50:30] tree there's trees here that's not that

[50:32] are not there's trees between us and

[50:33] this property this we sit Beyond lower

[50:37] and it goes into a it goes up and back

[50:40] down we sit we sit we gave this a

[50:43] representative of where it would be but

[50:45] if you can see the trees right Beyond

[50:48] this so I so so we could have presented

[50:52] this and just showed you you won't see

[50:54] it because is py in the foreground or

[50:56] background B is in the foreground see

[50:58] all the houses all the all the houses

[51:00] here that's all in the foreground so so maybe I'm misinterpreting it but I'm

[51:04] under the impression that that solid

[51:07] blue line is the roof line that will be

[51:10] visible from roof it's the roof line at

[51:15] the elevation Beyond where this

[51:18] development is it's like a n so it comes

[51:20] up and then back down and back up it's

[51:22] in the lower spot so the buildings in

[51:24] front are here the buildings that buing

[51:26] below and behind and then the hill goes

[51:28] up behind that right so so effectively

[51:31] this part of the hill this hill is kind

[51:32] of even with where PTI is but these

[51:34] treat think so I think that sitting down

[51:38] so so you're saying you put the line

[51:40] there just so we know where the line is

[51:41] but in fact we wouldn't really see that

[51:43] line correct if you drew the line where

[51:45] the property is

[51:46] correct so you couldn't see those those

[51:49] houses from that angle if you're driving

[51:51] down Route Six correct the trees based

[51:53] on the study that was done the trees

[51:55] they're higher than the actual roof

[51:56] right the trees in through here which

[51:58] are which are tight to the back of the

[51:59] existing development are not we're not

[52:01] touching those they're not so how do we

[52:03] get a

[52:05] visual I I I don't mean to be pejorative

[52:08] but without that confusion how do we how

[52:10] do we get a visual of what this thing

[52:12] looks like or doesn't look like from

[52:14] Route

[52:15] Six in other words I'm concerned and

[52:19] uncomfortable the uh construction that

[52:22] is now py is going to be duplicated on

[52:25] that Ridge lineing to be visible from

[52:27] boot six how do you satisfy the visual

[52:30] that we're that I'm concerned

[52:33] with yeah do an elevation and show them

[52:36] on the elevation how it is there's a

[52:37] cross-section that can be done there's a

[52:39] cross-section that can be done from this

[52:41] intersection to and through the py

[52:44] development to our development was there

[52:46] a balloon test performed yeah was there

[52:48] was a balloon test perform we were there

[52:50] and it was very windy it Lea leaf on and

[52:53] leaf off yeah we were there in November

[52:55] Take A View From this view you're

[52:57] presenting tonight do you have a photo

[52:58] of that balloon from

[53:00] there I don't you wouldn't see it no we

[53:03] were we were there when balloon test was

[53:05] going on and it was so windy you

[53:07] couldn't even you know the balloons were

[53:08] going back and forth he even lost a

[53:10] couple

[53:11] balloons um and we had asked for this

[53:14] type of

[53:15] drawing uh to the gentlemen who were

[53:18] there butn what I'm seeing

[53:21] is it's not telling the story is what

[53:24] you're saying no with with yeah I I

[53:27] understand I I understand your concern

[53:29] it's telling a story in that this is

[53:32] what the elevations of the houses as

[53:33] they would be beyond the development

[53:36] correct but I Zach if you link this to

[53:39] crosssections through there I that's the

[53:41] way to display the if it's a you know

[53:43] cross-section from here to to where it

[53:45] is linked with the image you'll see that

[53:48] you know these proposed houses would be

[53:51] hundreds of feet beyond the py

[53:53] development right this looks like it's

[53:54] they're going to be right behind the

[53:56] Beyond is not the issue it's do I see

[53:58] them understood yeah yeah and you know

[54:01] it's it's very complex because it's on a

[54:04] ridge it's on the other Ridge behind P's

[54:07] Ridge so you've got to get a a better

[54:10] understanding of that it's not coming

[54:11] through on these

[54:14] images so I think Zach there's a little

[54:17] bit more work you could do with this to

[54:18] help us understand better

[54:21] sure yeah and does the tree line change

[54:23] because you're cutting away the hill

[54:24] behind it for the development there the

[54:26] tree line changes on our development it

[54:29] doesn't change between us correct right

[54:32] EXA could I offer another suggestion

[54:34] perhaps if you were to model this with

[54:36] just a simple SketchUp model with the

[54:38] topography um that's threedimensional

[54:40] and you can sort of move it around and

[54:42] you could bring in you know that image

[54:44] for us and we could sort of manipulate

[54:47] it that may help just a thought if

[54:49] that's if you have that

[54:50] capability sure we do have computers and

[54:53] TVs you can use so wild

[54:57] Pat you had made a comment about um

[54:59] lowering the bridge line uh and that it

[55:02] would broaden the topography making it

[55:05] more visible so is that going to be

[55:07] addressed by this cross-sectional view

[55:09] as well yeah and I think that's that's

[55:11] gives it right and if there are concerns

[55:14] how would you mitigate them okay so

[55:16] that's exactly the point and so Zach

[55:19] hasn't talked about

Town of Carmel Planning Board Bi-Monthly Meeting - Thursday, January 9, 2025

Transcript