[13:02] call this meeting of the Karthy City Council to order.

[13:06] Brian, can you please give us an indication?

[13:09] » Heavenly Father, we thank you for this day and privilege of serving our

[13:12] community. Grant this council wisdom, patience, and unity as they make

[13:16] decisions that affect the lives of many. Help us seek the s the common good of

[13:21] our community with fairness, humility, and integrity. Protect and bless our

[13:25] city, its leaders, and all who live and work here. In your name we pray. Amen.

[13:30] Amen. >> Amen.

[13:33] » I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the standy

[13:44] andice for all.

[13:49] All right, Miranda, if you would please call the role.

[13:52] » Topete >> present.

[13:54] » Harrison >> here.

[13:55] » Tea >> here.

[13:56] » Thorne. >> Perkins

[13:58] » here. >> Snow

[13:59] » here. >> Kang

[14:00] » here. >> Wells

[14:01] » here. >> Ready

[14:02] » here. >> All right, everyone. I know you've had

[14:05] an opportunity to take a look at the uh the minutes from the August 11th

[14:08] meeting. I'd entertain a motion to approve those minutes.

[14:11] » I'll make a motion we approve those minutes as written.

[14:13] » Second. I have a motion, a second to uh approve the minutes as written. Any

[14:19] discussion? >> All in favor? I.

[14:22] » All opposed? >> Minutes are approved.

[14:27] » Okay. The next thing we've got is uh we have no presentations or proclamations

[14:32] for this evening. So, we'll move on to public comments. Anyone wishing to

[14:36] address the council, please step the microphone, state your name and address,

[14:40] and limit yourself to five minutes.

[14:45] Jeff, you want to go first? >> Yes, please.

[14:49] Brand's got a presentation. Jeff Meredith representing the Carthage

[14:52] Economic Development Corporation.

[15:00] » Okay. And tonight I wanted to talk with you all about a new program we have

[15:02] launched yesterday officially. It's called Restore My Block. Um, the purpose

[15:07] of this program is to basically we're matching dollars for home for owner

[15:11] occupied home improvements. So, if someone's willing to put $1,000 into

[15:16] their house, we will match that $1,000 to help ensure your application is

[15:20] chosen. If you have multiple homes on the same block, you've got neighbors

[15:24] that you want to get together. The idea being is that it's going to make a large

[15:27] impact on certain neighborhoods if you have three or four homes that go

[15:30] together and I'm going to fix my home, Jack's going to fix fix his, Allen,

[15:34] etc., etc. So we make an impact there. Um these applications are available now

[15:39] if you go to choosecarthage.com. Um they are available online in both

[15:43] English and Spanish and I do speak Spanish uh if people have those

[15:48] questions and they can also be dropped off or picked up at CWP. They're on

[15:52] Centennial Avenue. Um so a couple key points here. If you're going to do the

[15:57] work, make sure you get the grant approved first. If you do the work and

[16:01] then ask for reimbursement, you do not get our money.

[16:04] we will pay the contractor on your behalf. Um, or if you do the work, we

[16:08] can pay you your half back. So, if it's $2,000 for a project, you pay a,000, we

[16:14] pay a,000, the work gets done. Or you pay the two, we give you a grand back

[16:18] afterwards. This is focused on exterior permanent

[16:23] work to improve curb appeal. I specify permanent. We're not paying for plants

[16:27] or shrubs or trees or anything that's not going to get watered and die. Uh

[16:31] these could include porches, steps, windows, sighting. Paint these things,

[16:36] make it pretty, get more points. If you're doing the labor yourself or you

[16:40] have volunteers to do this, you get more points because then it's a larger

[16:44] project. Trying to make a large impact, help stretch the $1,000.

[16:49] The process in the timeline applications, get those right now online

[16:54] at CWP complete and turn it in with pictures of

[16:58] the work as you propose it. and it is today. We need to see it before you

[17:03] start the work. My review committee early September, we will look those

[17:07] over. We'll notify grantees in midepptember and my friend and

[17:12] colleague, Miss Sally, will talk perhaps about Restoration Carthage on September

[17:16] 24th. If you do apply for this and you are selected, uh you will find out ahead

[17:21] of time and you could potentially use those funds in conjunction with

[17:24] Restoration Carthage. By the way, you probably get bonus points if you're a

[17:28] partner of Restoration Carthage when you look at the application.

[17:33] If you have questions, you can email BAT, call 2377358,

[17:40] come by the office. If I'm not there, please do not ask the CWP employees

[17:45] questions. They do not know anything about this program. They have to talk to

[17:50] me. Again, choosecarthage.com. Do you all have questions about the

[17:56] program? Anything specific? Anything I didn't mention?

[18:00] » Do you have a particular number of how many of these thousand grants that

[18:04] you're proposing or you're expecting or hoping to give out?

[18:08] » Great question. We have $20,000. Uh OM Bank and the Federal Home Bank of De

[18:13] Moine gave us some funds to do this. So 20,000 20 projects.

[18:18] » Nice. Uh, Beth,

[18:21] » do you um are you going to be looking at all in your review committee with um

[18:26] houses that are on the um code enforcement list or are you going to go

[18:31] a different direction? >> Uh, I mean, they're certainly welcome to

[18:34] apply and we can get them applications. Uh, and if they're willing to, then

[18:38] absolutely. The key is they have to be willing to put in the money um upfront,

[18:42] but certainly and for those that are on the code enforcement list, if you're

[18:46] watching this, please go find an application at choosecarthage.com

[18:50] and I'm happy to help you. I mean, the applications are fairly simple. Rhonda,

[18:54] do you have a question? >> Well, I was just going to emphasize

[18:57] that, you know, that will be good in compliance with our code enforcement

[19:01] that we're going around doing. those people that are maybe

[19:06] don't have the funds or all the funds to do the improvements, this will give them

[19:10] an opportunity between their yourself and you guys to

[19:15] do those improvements as to what help with the beautifying of the city of

[19:20] Carthage. >> Yes. And that is the goal to increase

[19:22] the quantity and quality of homes in Carthage. Uh makes everything better.

[19:28] » Thank you. >> Any other questions for Yeah.

[19:30] » Sorry, Jeff. Is there um without going into the entire application process,

[19:35] what is there any criteria like low income um based more than not or

[19:42] anything like that? That's you know a factor.

[19:46] » Uh we're not asking. >> Sure. We're not asking about income

[19:49] requirements simply because then we'd have to verify. Um but there are some

[19:53] questions that could. So, uh, the impact of the project on your home is an area

[19:58] where you could get points that could perhaps reflect some of what you're

[20:02] asking without getting into the specific details to actually vet in that manner.

[20:06] » Okay. Excellent. Thank you. >> Okay. Any other questions?

[20:11] » Thanks, Jeff.

[20:15] » Anyone else wishing to address the council, please step to the microphone,

[20:19] state your name and address, and limit yourself to five minutes.

[20:22] » Keep a straight face. [laughter] Your luck was bound to run out. It's Sally

[20:26] Stewart with Vision Carthage and this is my quarterly report which will be very

[20:30] short, but I'll tag on to his in just a moment. Um, I really wanted to start

[20:35] this meeting with a huge thank you to Sonia and to Addison. They have been

[20:41] watering every single day. Even on Saturday, I've seen them the flowers

[20:45] around the square in and the parks in this heat. It's been a brutal, brutal

[20:50] summer. I've about passed out myself and they are troopers. So, please extend an

[20:56] extra thank you for us. We also want to thank the city, the board me, my board

[21:01] members, which are just amazing, our community partners, sponsors, and

[21:06] volunteers. We are very good stewards with your money and we could not do the

[21:11] work we do without the people I just mentioned and your support. So, here's

[21:16] what we've been up to the last quarter. We completed the Carthage and Bloom

[21:21] mural and the marching fighting band mural which is a historical mural and

[21:26] that ribbon cutting will be this Thursday at 11:00. We've completed our

[21:31] Carthage and Bloom series which is where we try to promote beautifification in

[21:36] people's yards by encouraging them to plant flowers and improve their

[21:41] landscaping. Um we acknowledged the winners in our

[21:45] evening suare which was an evening which we celebrate everything beautiful.

[21:51] Um along with Carthage and Bloom we've planted over 700 flowers. That's not the

[21:56] hanging baskets that we had to replace some of and that's been a task to

[22:01] maintain again in this heat. We also weed every Wednesday. We read Central

[22:07] Park and the roundabouts, the me memorial hall, you name it. We

[22:13] are out every Tuesday. We have wonderful volunteers for that. Unfortunately, many

[22:18] of our volunteers went back to school yesterday. So, if anyone else wants to

[22:22] jump in and um wait with us for the next month, we'd love it. I probably reported

[22:28] on dumpster day last quarter, but again, that's one of our biggest successes. and

[22:32] we'll continue to do that um every year. Dumpster day is one of our efforts in

[22:39] beautifification again for this town. Veterans banners. Um we're on round

[22:46] number two and we're totally filled. If you're hearing this and you are on our

[22:50] wait list and haven't sent it in, I still have saved your spot, but we can

[22:54] take no more >> [snorts]

[22:56] » um banners for this year. There has there have been several requests to do

[23:01] something special about it when we hang them up this year and I'll work with

[23:06] different groups to see about some sort of event maybe around Veterans Day.

[23:12] Um we are now ready for Restoration Carthage. Thank you to the codes

[23:17] enforcement that our normal amount of um applications which is usually 20 30 went

[23:23] above 60 this year and we have just we've loved getting to know everyone. We

[23:29] can only do about nine houses. Three have been started. 812 River is our

[23:35] signature house this year and you'll see the siding is already completed. Um it

[23:40] will still get gutters which I'll come to because that will be part of

[23:44] hopefully CEDC's money because she has the money

[23:49] um and the retaining wall. But the homes that are that we select, there is no

[23:56] financial thing, but they're almost all of

[24:01] a demographic that needs the assistance. They can't do it themselves either

[24:05] financially or physically. And it's our absolute pleasure to see

[24:10] those h um houses transform. We made a year ago a change where the

[24:17] people that apply have to go to our classes or if they can't attend a class,

[24:22] submit um some sort of support document. And our last class is porch perkup on

[24:31] Saturday, September 12th at the library. And

[24:37] I think that's mostly it. I wanted to talk though just a touch on CEDC's. So

[24:45] anyone we had already selected our process had already been completed

[24:49] before um Jeff and his group had their money. So we will still do all the

[24:54] houses and commit to everything we did as is. We have found three people that

[24:58] want more done. They have their $1,000. We are encouraging them to match it and

[25:03] then we'll work with them again on that day if they're selected.

[25:08] Um, God bless Habitat for Humanity, Hearts and Hammers, Scott's Landscaping,

[25:14] and Josiah. Thank you. >> All right. Any council member have a

[25:18] question for Sally? >> They want to get the big

[25:23] » All right. Thanks, Ally. Just so the council member knows, the mural that was

[25:26] restored is down at Second and Main Street. If you haven't seen it, uh, it's

[25:30] it's down on the side of the south side of that building. Anyone else wishing to

[25:34] address the council, please step the microphone, state your name and address,

[25:37] and limit yourself to five minutes. My name is Mike Cole, resigned at 839

[25:42] Uklid. Ladies and gentlemen of the council, Mr. Mayor, I come tonight as a

[25:46] representative of the fire department. I've been employed there since 2019. We

[25:51] have a collaborative statement for all of our employees of the fire department

[25:54] to voice our concerns regarding council bill 2648 for amended overtime for city

[25:59] employees. Currently, our fire department has three

[26:03] rotating shifts of firefighters, each consisting of a battalion chief and

[26:06] seven firefighters. The way the schedule works out, our firefighters will work

[26:10] nine or 10 24-hour shifts in their 28 day FLSA cycle, either 216 hours or 240

[26:17] hours, depending on the cycle. For our 8-h hour workday employees, that equates

[26:22] to an additional 105 days a year, 35 full 24-hour days. Simply put, for the

[26:28] duration of our careers at this department, we'll spend a third of our

[26:30] lives at work. Over the course of a 20-year career, firefighters will work

[26:34] an extra six and a half years worth of hours compared to a 40-hour employee

[26:37] with just their base hours. Any extra work beyond these days is paid a time

[26:42] and a half, regardless of the time off taken. This is considered a big perk of

[26:47] choosing to work at our department, and the new proposed bill will change this

[26:51] quite drastically for us, and it will have an impact on our operational

[26:54] capabilities. If put into place as proposed, any

[26:57] firefighter who takes a day off with their crude PTO will fall under the 212

[27:02] threshold for hours worked in a 28 day cycle. If we're short-handed and we have

[27:06] to call in overtime to maintain a minimum staff level, that employee is

[27:10] taking the day off. They'll now be working for straight time instead of

[27:12] overtime. Depending on the employee working, change in compensation will

[27:17] fluctuate, but the average employee will be losing $200 a day to work an extra 24

[27:21] hours over the course of a year. If that firefighter were to pick up one extra

[27:26] shift a month, they're now losing out on $2,400 for the year. Doesn't sound like

[27:30] a lot to most people, but that is almost an extra month's worth of wages for our

[27:34] guys. As currently written, this bill essentially punishes the employee for

[27:38] taking their PTM. A large majority of our employees work a

[27:43] second job outside of the fire department, partially because our

[27:46] schedule allows it, but usually because the money is necessary to raise our

[27:49] families. problem that we run into periodically is having another job makes

[27:52] it harder to just drop everything and work an extra day at the fire

[27:55] department. It's going to be even harder to

[27:58] incentivize working extra shifts if our department has taken a day off and now

[28:03] you want them to come in for straight time, especially when their hourly rate

[28:07] was probably higher at their part-time job and they can be home at night with

[28:10] their family. The shortterm impacts of this will be an

[28:14] increased workload on our administrative staff. Someone's going to have to

[28:17] constantly be tracking hours worked versus hours of PTO taken, shifts traded

[28:21] amongst employees to know how many hours they've actually been in the building,

[28:24] etc. Seems unlikely the city is going to pay our administrative assistant extra

[28:28] for this increased workload and highly likely that she'll be subject to

[28:32] disciplinary action if the hours are missed and overtimes paid out on

[28:35] accident. There are multitude of lawsuits around

[28:38] the country involving fire departments and FLSA hours not being calculated

[28:42] correctly, generally through a misunderstanding of the exemption status

[28:45] of employees or miscalculating a regular rate for all overtime forms. Putting our

[28:51] city in a position that has already caused lawsuits and settlement payouts

[28:54] over a confusing form of paying overtime does not appear to be worth the savings

[28:58] the city would have with this bill. The long-term ramifications are much

[29:03] more significant. The majority of our employees at department will work less

[29:06] additional hours for straight pay, which shouldn't be a shocking revelation. This

[29:10] will exacerbate the overtime fatigue we already see regularly as a small group

[29:14] of employees working constantly will be less likely to work the extra shifts.

[29:18] The clear path here leads to a mandatory or forced overtime shifts, which is not

[29:22] feasible for a department size. On any given day, we have a pool of 12

[29:26] employees to cover a 24-hour shift that's open. Half of that part group six

[29:31] if you will has worked the shift prior to that extra day or worked the day

[29:35] after that day. Makes them less likely to take it because then they'll be there

[29:38] for 48 hours straight. As stated previously, several others at

[29:43] the department have jobs that have scheduled work that can't be put aside,

[29:47] making them unable to work the shift. If you now tell them they have to report to

[29:50] work to be subject to disciplinary action, that's a morale killer. The

[29:54] turnover rate at the fire department will be a problem. Whether employees

[29:58] choose to leave or are terminated for being written up for refusing to come in

[30:01] on mandatory shifts, it will cause personnel problems. Combine that with

[30:05] the fact that a nearby department is about to start paying firefighters

[30:09] $7,000 or more than Carthage at just a base level. Retention and hiring is

[30:13] going to be difficult. Another thing to consider is how this

[30:16] affects our pensions. Our pension fund, which we share with the police

[30:19] department, is based on our five highest years of earnings. this bill passes, not

[30:24] only are we losing money in the short term, we're losing money in retirement.

[30:28] Our department's filled with a very talented group of employees in the fire

[30:31] service. We're capable of mitigating a variety of emergencies with minimal

[30:34] personnel compared to other career fire departments in the state. Several of our

[30:38] employees are highly valued members as part-time employees at other departments

[30:42] in our own county. We don't want to see our talented employees walk out the door

[30:46] for not being able to be appropriately compensated for extra time worked. We

[30:50] bring this to your attention not to seek more money, simply to ask. Don't take

[30:53] money out of our pocket that we're already making. Keeping necessary

[30:56] personnel on duty to protect our citizens safe should be the council's

[30:59] top priority. And this bill will make that more difficult to accomplish. Thank

[31:03] you for your time. >> Okay, Mike, hang on a second. Any

[31:05] council member have a question for Mike P?

[31:10] » Okay, thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to address the council? Please

[31:14] step the microphone, state your name and address, and limit yourself to five

[31:17] minutes.

[31:24] Hello, my name is Tom Bowen. I'm the vice president for the Southwest

[31:28] Missouri Fraternal Order Police. We represent over 250 active and retired

[31:34] law enforcement officers in our area. Um that includes the um men and women in

[31:39] the Carthage Police Officers Association.

[31:42] I'm here to ask you to vote no on Council Bill 2648.

[31:47] I'd like to talk about several of the reasons that have been given in support

[31:50] of it. One reason given is that this measure will bring you in line with the

[31:54] FLSA or the federal law governing um working conditions.

[31:59] Um that is true that these changes would be in line with the FLSA, but what

[32:03] you're already doing is also in line with the FLSA. Um the FLSA doesn't um do

[32:09] a maximum. It sets a minimum just like minimum wage. If you pay an employee

[32:13] more than minimum wage, you're still in line with the FLSA. Paying them more

[32:17] more doesn't change that. Um the overtime benefits and call back pay

[32:21] benefits are the same. It sets a minimum, doesn't set a maximum. So what

[32:26] you're doing now is in line with the FLSA just like um these changes would

[32:30] be. Um

[32:35] it's also going to create different tiers for different employees in your

[32:39] city. Um, it's not going to put all employees on the same level. General

[32:44] employees are going to be paid overtime anytime they work more than 40 hours in

[32:48] a week. Um, police employees won't get overtime until they work more than 80

[32:53] hours in two weeks. Your fire employees won't get overtime until they work 212

[32:57] hours in 28 days. So, there'll be three tiers there.

[33:02] When you combine that with the proposed changes to the callback pay, a police

[33:07] employee might take a day off at the beginning of the pay period um for

[33:12] vacation, sick time, um any reason they may be off and then 13 lers they may be

[33:19] called back, called away from a birthday party, called away from a kids ball

[33:23] game, interrupted from dinner, woken up in the middle of the night, um and

[33:27] they'll come back to work without being paid overtime.

[33:30] um the lower benefit given to police officers and firefighters in this um

[33:36] would create different tiers for your employees and it's not in line with the

[33:41] way other local law enforcement officers in other agencies are are compensated

[33:46] when they're called into work. Finally, I'd like to address the I've

[33:52] heard that this could save the city around $96,000.

[33:55] That's probably true. Um, but that savings isn't going to come from

[34:00] being more efficient, purchasing better, more efficient

[34:05] equipment, reduc reducing workflow. It's going to be saved by paying Carthage

[34:10] police officers and Carthage firefighters less for continuing to do

[34:13] the same work that they're doing today. Um, this bill would negatively impact

[34:18] your employees. I'm asking you to vote no on it. Instead, I would encourage you

[34:23] to resume your bargaining meetings with Carthage Police Officers Association.

[34:27] We've seen incredibly positive results of this in other communities nearby.

[34:32] Joplin Police Officers Association bargains with um city of Joplain and

[34:37] it's been a very positive relationship they've had there. In 2019, the JOA, the

[34:44] IIAFF, Johnson City Council, city administration, and citizens groups

[34:49] worked together to address a significant financial need that the city was facing.

[34:54] They developed a plan, put it on a ballot, and put it before the voters,

[34:58] and that plan passed at about 80%. The resulting savings from implemented

[35:04] that implementing that plan was able to provide raises for all city employees.

[35:10] this year. Earlier this year, Job and Police Officers Association, the IFFF,

[35:15] city council, city administration, citizens groups once again put a

[35:20] initiative on the ballot. Um, and passed with about 80% of the voters. Um, that's

[35:27] going to result in funds for additional personnel, um, better equipment, and

[35:32] again, much needed raises for all city employees, not just police and fire.

[35:37] So working together as a group is uh positively impacting both the city and

[35:42] and those employee groups. I'm not saying the answer is the same for

[35:46] Carthage. Carthage is a different city. Um it's facing different situations and

[35:52] they have different needs and probably different solutions.

[35:55] What I am asking is that you vote no on this bill tonight and then work with

[35:59] your um employees or work with your officers to come to a solution that's

[36:05] going to benefit you, benefit them, benefit the community as a whole. Thank

[36:09] you. >> Any questions for Mr. Bo Jack?

[36:15] [clears throat] Seems to me the negotiation are between

[36:19] the Carthage Police Union and the city. >> Yes, sir. You mentioned Jopin. Somebody

[36:25] voted. Who voted? It was like a citizen vote. How did that I mean seemed to me

[36:29] like a negotiation is between two parties. What what does that have to do

[36:34] with voting? >> Yeah. So when Joplain was facing issues,

[36:39] they the um Joplin Police Officers Association and the city came to a

[36:44] bargaining agreement together. Um, one of the proposed solutions to what they

[36:48] were facing um, involved in increased sales tax to be quite frank on the

[36:52] citizens. Um, so the agreement between police officers and the city was not

[36:59] voted on by the community. That was voted on by the their city council um,

[37:03] [snorts] just like an agreement would be done here if it if it could be reached.

[37:07] What did have to go before the voters is the solution that the um JOA and the

[37:12] IIAFF worked on their separate agreements. The solution to address

[37:18] financial needs of the city. Um that that part had to be approved by the city

[37:22] and when they put it forward both times 80% of the citizens voted yes.

[37:27] » Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions for this Mr. Bow?

[37:32] Okay. Thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to address the council? Please

[37:36] step the microphone, state your name and address, limit yourself to five minutes.

[37:44] All right, seeing no one else, we will move on. Uh, first thing we have

[37:50] tonight, we'll go to uh reports of standing committees. We'll start with

[37:53] budget ways and means. Allan, >> thank you, honor. Budget ways, means

[37:57] committee is currently between meetings. Uh our September meeting is currently

[38:02] scheduled during our MML conference and a new date. Uh we've identified a date,

[38:09] but that date may change. So I'm not going to say what the date is right now,

[38:13] but it the meeting will be posted. So we will be having a different date and time

[38:18] for that uh September meeting. >> Okay. Thank you. Committee on insurance

[38:24] audit and claims. Ron. >> Yes, your honor. Uh we met here this

[38:28] evening at 6:00. Uh we approved the uh claims which will be presented to the uh

[38:36] full council later on. Uh we had no new business but uh Robin did report to us

[38:44] that uh they are still working on the uh 2-160

[38:49] uh motion for uh changing uh the powers

[38:56] between the council and the mayor and what have you and and firing and hiring

[39:01] employees. Uh our next meeting will be on September

[39:06] the 8th uh at 6:00. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh public safety Allen.

[39:14] » Uh yeah, Mr. Thorne, Councilman Thornne's not here tonight. So, uh our

[39:19] public safety committee meeting was scheduled for the 17th and unfortunately

[39:23] we weren't able to have that meeting due to a lack of a quorum. But there was one

[39:27] item on our agenda that needs addressed prior to our next meeting. Uh the bridge

[39:34] uh church here in Carthage is having their annual rally in the park. This is

[39:39] the I don't know 10th year I think that we've done this. We've done it every

[39:44] year. Uh so at this point at this time I'd like to make a motion that we close

[39:51] the on se Sunday September 20th at 7:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. we close uh Main Street

[40:00] between Chestnut and 9th 9inth Street between Maine and Lion

[40:08] and Chestnut between Maine and Lion from 12:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m. or from

[40:15] 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. to allow for their rally in the park and allow cars

[40:22] to back into the parking places.

[40:27] Second. >> Okay. I have a motion and a second to uh

[40:31] support rallying the park in Central Park September 20th between 0700 and

[40:36] 1500 hours closing down the roads around. Any discussion

[40:41] Allen? So this is kind of the backup plan. The actual plan is for the rally

[40:49] in the park to be in Central Park and I believe uh Jude Champagne will be coming

[40:54] to the public services committee to get permission from parks department for

[40:59] their for the rally in the park. Uh one time that I remember uh we actually got

[41:06] rain and we weren't able to have the car show in the park and this is a backup

[41:11] plan to have the car show kind of around the church area right there. So this may

[41:18] or may not actually be necessary, but they like to get it done just in case

[41:23] they need to close those streets. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other discussion?

[41:29] » All right. All in favor? I >> I

[41:32] » All opposed. >> Motion passes.

[41:35] » All right, Alan. >> Uh, our next regularly scheduled meeting

[41:38] for public safety will be on September 21st at 5:30 here in council chambers.

[41:44] » Okay. Thank you. Public services. >> Yes. Um, originally we were going to be

[41:50] meeting on a regular time on August 18th, but due to the lack of quorum, we

[41:54] will be rescheduling that meeting for August 31st.

[41:59] So that's all I have to report. >> Thank you. Public works.

[42:04] » Public works is also between meetings. Our next scheduled meeting, I believe,

[42:09] is the first uh 5:30 here in council chambers.

[42:14] » Okay. Thank you. We now entertain reports from special committees and

[42:18] board liaison. Who'd like to go first? Alan.

[42:22] » Yes. Uh the Mchune Brooks uh trust will meet for their quarterly meeting

[42:28] tomorrow at 12:00. >> Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Marie

[42:35] Ellen. >> Um the Kelly board meeting was held on

[42:38] August 13th. I received a warm welcome from them after taking over um as a

[42:45] leazison for war 2. Couple things. The pavilion project um is nearing

[42:51] completion. So, they just wanted to remind us of the funds coming in from

[42:54] the city. Just keep that in mind. I'm sure we still have it in mind. Um, and

[43:00] another thing, they are ongoing with investigations concerning dredging. Just

[43:05] wanted to put that out there. >> Okay.

[43:07] » Hopefully, we can get that done. >> Thank you. Anything else?

[43:10] » Uh, next meeting will be held on September 10th at 6 p.m.

[43:13] » All right. >> Any other reports from special

[43:16] committees? Jack, >> the CWP board met August 20th.

[43:24] [snorts] I will say it's one of the calmer meetings we've ever had. There

[43:30] highlights dispersements were approved in the amount of $5,725,882.99.

[43:39] All directors gave an updated report of operations.

[43:43] Nothing extravagant, nothing strange, nothing out of the place. Um, financial

[43:49] statements were reviewed and approved for June 26th and July 2026. Full

[43:54] financial statements can be found in the board packet.

[43:58] New business. The board approved a bid for an articulating telescopic bucket

[44:04] truck from Altech Industries in the amount of 272,327

[44:12] with an estimated delivery in 2029.

[44:18] Tough to get stuff. The board approved the bid for a crew cab truck for water

[44:23] distribution department in the amount of $55,499

[44:28] from InRout Enterprises in Ozark, Missouri.

[44:33] The board approved a bid for a vacuum jeter truck which will be shared between

[44:38] all the departments in the amount of 657,000

[44:44] from backcom which is available on a government

[44:48] cooperative contract. The board approved a trackloader lease

[44:54] with Caterpillar Financial Services Corporation.

[44:58] The lease is a 4-year lease with annual payments of $23,4758

[45:04] totaling $93,900.32

[45:08] over the 4-year period. The board approved a bid for a

[45:13] galvanized steel structures to

[45:18] begin uh covering the sub4, the new

[45:24] uh

[45:27] in the economic development uh

[45:34] sorry for mumbling. Anyhow, the this uh steel structure is not going to be the

[45:39] complete building. is going to be the skeleton of the building.

[45:43] The amount was $282,36240

[45:50] and this is from Advanced Steel and Crane.

[45:54] This bid was solicited and evaluated by Algar Martin and Associates as a part of

[45:58] the overall subcore project. This is for the new

[46:03] [cough and clears throat] equipment for the for the uh CEDC.

[46:08] And finally, the board approved a resolution to issue a $30,000 loan

[46:14] to the CEDC through the CWEP revolving loan fund.

[46:20] The loan will contribute to land purchase at the economic development

[46:23] park. As a reminder, this money comes from a

[46:27] grant received from the USDA. Next meeting is when?

[46:33] » I think 17th. >> 17th.

[46:37] So, All right. Thank you. Juan, >> police, fire, and pension committee is

[46:43] scheduled for tomorrow, August 26th, at 2 p.m. upstairs in the conference room.

[46:50] » Okay. Thank you, >> Ron.

[46:53] » Yes. Civil War Museum had a meeting on the uh 19th at 4:30 in the upper

[46:58] chambers here. uh some reports of the uh July 25th

[47:05] through uh compared to July 2026 sales was down some. It was uh for

[47:14] 2026 it was $799. Uh a year ago it had been $1,115.

[47:23] donations was at uh in 2025 $433

[47:30] and the uh July 2026 was 363. Our visits was actually up though for

[47:40] 2026. It was 586 over 422 for the uh previous year.

[47:49] Um, we also had some discussion about uh

[47:57] whether they wanted to move the Civil War Museum

[48:01] to somewhere up on the square. Uh, the group is going to look at that. It would

[48:07] give them more room. They have a lot of stuff in the upstairs which is not

[48:12] available for individuals to go up and see. So finding a place on this square

[48:17] would be nice. I am wondering, you know, while we have a mayor that is in very

[48:22] favor of our civil war, they need to be looking at that presently.

[48:28] Also, um they also discussed the upstairs and

[48:33] whether we could be able to use that. And the one problem is is if you open it

[48:38] up to the public, it has to be ADA approved. And that presents a big

[48:43] problem and whether you want to continue to invest in the building down here or

[48:48] if they possibly could look at trying to move somewhere else up on the square. Uh

[48:56] just prior to closing, uh Dr. Defenbal um has an individual Tim Hedgeameir out

[49:07] of St. Louis, who's a very big Civil War museum individual.

[49:13] uh they're trying to schedule sometime next year in May to have a presentation

[49:19] either at Memorial Hall or even he will go to the high school and do

[49:25] presentations because uh they have several groups of kids that are

[49:29] throughout the whole town and it would make it safer for them not having to

[49:33] bring them on the bus and what have you down here to Memorial Hall. uh and

[49:39] they're looking at that uh for uh this coming next year and

[49:47] our possible next meeting will be October the 14th.

[49:51] » Okay, >> that's all we have.

[49:52] » Thank you. Any other reports on special committees or board leaison?

[49:59] Okay, moving on. Uh we'll go into my report for this evening. Um, as already

[50:05] mentioned, we did have another CEDC board meeting and uh, although Jeff

[50:10] didn't necessarily me mention it, the housing committee, which is a subset of

[50:14] the CEDC, which is the one that's working with the new programs are out

[50:19] there. So, that's moving forward appropriately and it is very much

[50:22] nested, I think, and and in sync with what we're doing with code enforcement,

[50:26] what Vision is trying to do, and it's overall beautifification of of our city

[50:31] and trying to clean it up as well. Uh we did have another CEB board meeting as

[50:36] well as Jack mentioned. The bridge committee also had a partial bridge

[50:40] committee meeting last week with Will Klein from Truman uh discussing uh

[50:45] potential funding opportunities going forward. We still obviously got a lot of

[50:49] work to do there, but that's continuing to move forward. Ron mentioned the Civil

[50:54] War Museum Advisory Board. Uh we've already mentioned the fire the housing

[50:59] committee. I had a meeting last week with uh both uh the fire department and

[51:06] CWP, Jason Chotton and Jason Martin. And I think everyone saw that uh in

[51:11] conjunction a collaboration with uh uh Art Central and CWP and others, they're

[51:16] going to go through and start doing some fire hydrant decoration, which is great

[51:22] in honor of the Route 66th anniversary. Uh having said that, what we've we've

[51:28] discovered is we've got a few uh citizens, unfortunately misinformed, who

[51:33] are quite honestly out there kind of rolling their own in terms of painting

[51:36] what they want to paint on the fire hydrant happens to be around their area.

[51:40] So, we're working collaborative, CWP and fire department are working

[51:45] collaborative to put together an ordinance that we will put on the books

[51:48] that basically outlines what the restrictions would be. Obviously, we

[51:53] want absolutely no decrement to functionality of the fire hydrant

[51:56] itself. Nor do we want any decoration that would reduce the fire hydrant's

[52:01] visibility. In other words, camouflage it because that makes no sense at all.

[52:04] We want to be able to find them easily. So once they're done with that, uh,

[52:08] we'll get that out, bring it into council, and I suspect what we'll find

[52:12] is people that want to do some sort of decorative effort, much like Art Central

[52:17] is doing now, will come to probably public safety, maybe the public works

[52:22] committee to present their ideas and get permission from elected members of

[52:26] council before they proceed on to make sure we're tracking. So that that's

[52:30] working forward now. I'm not sure how far along they are, but I'm sure it'll

[52:34] be it'll be fine. Uh we still are in need of a W 2 council

[52:41] member. We haven't had anyone sign up or volunteer just yet. That uh we'll still

[52:45] continue to leave that slot open and posted through the end of this week

[52:49] after which time I'll start moving back into my recruiting mode just so

[52:54] everybody knows. And finally, although he'll probably discuss it, uh for those

[52:59] of you council members that don't know, we did have a uh a police officer,

[53:03] Sergeant Adams, that was injured on duty uh this past weekend. He had a broken

[53:07] nose, uh which is obviously unfortunate according to Chad. He's trying to go to

[53:14] law school, so broken noses may be in his future if he becomes a lawyer

[53:19] because that's the way some people respond to lawyers. But he's doing fine.

[53:24] Uh and again, it's an appreciation for what the police officers do for us. So,

[53:29] all that having been said, we'll now move on to uh reports of council

[53:34] members. And Juan, we will start with you this evening.

[53:36] » All right. I got a story for you guys. So, uh, last week, um, I visited Grand

[53:42] Rapids, Michigan, and they have a large Vietnamese community there, and I got

[53:47] the opportunity to talk to to several individuals, all of which, uh, had been

[53:51] to Carthage at some point in their life, and every single one of them had nothing

[53:55] but good words to say about Carthage. show. So to me that was a very proud

[53:59] moment as a Carthaginian um to to hear all these positive things about Carthage

[54:04] and and uh they've been here to the Marian day celebrations at some point in

[54:08] their life. Um to the point that one one gentleman said that when he gets to the

[54:12] point of retirement and in his life that he's considering moving to Carthage. So

[54:17] I just want to share that with everyone. you know, the the events and and the

[54:21] impact that Marian that that we have with those folks in Marian Days is

[54:26] seeing um it's a positive one. So, um thank [clears throat] you guys to

[54:30] everyone that makes those type of events uh the success that they are. Um we are

[54:36] getting that recognition from from those individuals. So, kudos to the city to

[54:41] the folks. That's all I have. >> Okay, Rob.

[54:44] » Uh nothing this evening, your honor. >> Marella,

[54:47] » nothing this evening. Jack,

[54:50] » nothing. >> Allan,

[54:52] » thank you, your honor. I would like to uh

[54:56] address council bill 2648 and the fair labor standards guidelines

[55:04] that we are uh looking at in this council bill uh have not been

[55:12] uh just jumped too easily. There's been a lot of work put into this uh with

[55:19] committee and with our HR department. Currently, u our employees in the city,

[55:27] half of our employees or about half of our employees are uh under the Fair

[55:32] Labor Standards Act with the 40hour work week. As Mr. Um the gentleman earlier

[55:39] stated um we're not cutting any pay. We're

[55:46] simply looking at how we calculate that overtime.

[55:51] [snorts] In order to uh make these changes, we did uh some

[55:57] research on what other cities are currently doing, what we're currently

[56:03] doing, and what we're proposing to do. Currently,

[56:08] uh, the Carthage Police Department is on a 147 hour and 24 day

[56:16] period. Our proposal is to go for 80 hours in 14

[56:21] days. The fire department is currently on a

[56:25] 212-hour work schedule in 28 days. That will not

[56:31] change with this new proposal. Currently, some of the other cities in

[56:36] our area, uh, Battlefield over by Springfield, uh,

[56:40] their current police work schedule is 171 hours in 28 days.

[56:48] Boliviver, they do not have, we did not have information on them for the fire

[56:52] department. Boliviver is currently on a 86-hour

[56:56] schedule in 14 days. Their fire department is on 106 hours in 14 days.

[57:06] City of Branson 80 hours and 14 days. City of Joplain 80 hours and 14 days.

[57:14] City of Neosho 86 hours and 14 days. City of Nevada 80 hours and 14 days.

[57:21] City of Nik Nixa 84 hours and 14 days. City of Web City 80 hours and 14 days

[57:30] and pretty much across the board the fire department is 212 hours and 28 days

[57:35] as we currently have it. So we're not looking at doing something

[57:41] different than other cities in our area have done. We are simply looking at

[57:47] changing getting our guidelines making our all of our employees across the

[57:53] board on the on the same vacation pay

[57:59] standard that uh

[58:03] is in line with the Fair Labor Standards Act.

[58:07] Uh when we talked about call back pay, uh our current call back is authorized

[58:16] for designated employees are eligible for a minimum of two hours overtime

[58:20] provided the employee called back has left work for the day after completing a

[58:24] regularly scheduled work shift and the call back to work occurs more than two

[58:29] hours immediately before the beginning of their next regularly scheduled work

[58:33] shift. The change that we're proposing on that

[58:38] is when a situation arrives requiring an employee to be called back to work

[58:42] within 12 hours after the completion of their shift

[58:46] and outside their regular work schedule. The employee shall receive a minimum of

[58:50] two hours of overtime pay at one and a half times their regular rate of pay for

[58:56] the actual hours worked if more than two hours are worked. So, we're not

[59:01] drastically changing our overtime policy. looking at what other towns we

[59:06] we did have uh research Joplain has very similar uh call back. Uh they do allow

[59:15] three hours of call back pay. Um Neossho

[59:21] at least uh they only have one and a half hours of call back pay and then uh

[59:29] Nixa has at least two hours of call back pay. So, it's not like we're doing

[59:34] something that's completely uh out of the ordinary or different. It's it is a

[59:40] change. I will I will give them that. But it's not something that is uh so far

[59:51] uh different than what anyone else is doing that I would uh

[59:58] ask everyone to support this legislation when it comes up on the agenda later and

[1:00:03] vote in favor of it. >> Thank you your honor.

[1:00:06] » Okay. Bet. >> Yes. I just um wanted to say uh one

[1:00:11] thing about the vision Carthage about volunteering for the restoration day

[1:00:16] because I did last year and I'm going to do it again. I'm going to sign up for a

[1:00:19] house captain and it's a great family event to do that. It's also a great

[1:00:25] company event or organization and to be um I did a lot of these kinds

[1:00:32] of projects in the organization I worked for in California and to see people

[1:00:37] really that excited and elated about what's happening to their home um in

[1:00:43] just in a matter of hours as plus some other work too. But I I do want to give

[1:00:48] a pitch for that as well. So that's really I'll save some of my other

[1:00:52] questions and things for a little bit later in the agenda, but thank you.

[1:00:56] » Okay, Ron. >> Yes, sure. Uh

[1:01:00] did have a report of uh the uh elk and Maple Street Chief. Uh

[1:01:09] there's a concerned citizen down there watching that intersection and

[1:01:15] trucks and what have you are just flying through that stop sign. And I've almost

[1:01:19] got hit there several times. I just lived down the street about two blocks.

[1:01:23] And I don't know what the answer is, whether we can get a fourway stop up

[1:01:29] there or something because guys crossing Maple don't even stop and

[1:01:36] and it's going to be somebody get hurt and they're concerned also that

[1:01:41] eventually someone's going to get hit or killed on that intersection. So, we need

[1:01:45] to look at that. Second, uh Allan, I appreciate all your information and

[1:01:51] update and I think you were very good in clarifying that.

[1:01:57] My concern, you know, I'd love to be able to give them all even a range, but

[1:02:02] we can't afford to do that. Uh I don't know if they attended our uh approval or

[1:02:08] budget this year, but it's $383,000

[1:02:13] in the deficit. In other words, the revenue doesn't cover what our

[1:02:17] department heads went to spend this year. So that put us at $383,000

[1:02:24] in debt. As the gentleman spoke, this will save

[1:02:29] the city around supposedly $96,000 which has been reported to me.

[1:02:39] I can't and honestly go to the citizens and ask for a raise on our taxes or even

[1:02:47] our sales tax to give you a raise cuz there a lot of

[1:02:52] those citizens are living on a lot less money than what your entry level is even

[1:02:58] at.

[1:03:01] I have to look at the taxpayer. I have to look at the citizens who voted for

[1:03:05] me, who asked me to represent them. And I

[1:03:12] have talked to them and I have had a few that said, "Oh, just go ahead and give

[1:03:17] them more money." And then I've had others that tell me, "Hey, I have a hard

[1:03:23] time eating meat and putting food on my table.

[1:03:33] When we have a deficit that we have and [snorts] if we don't deal with this and

[1:03:37] find ways to cut it, your department heads are going to eventually have to

[1:03:42] say we're going to have to work with less people because the city ain't going

[1:03:46] to have the money to pay y'all. I don't want to see that. I don't want

[1:03:51] to see any of you get a notice saying, "Hey,

[1:03:54] we can't afford to continue to keep you on board."

[1:03:59] And that'll if we have to get to that point, it ain't going to be just

[1:04:03] parks or city or public works.

[1:04:09] All the departments in my opinion should be responsible for cutting employees.

[1:04:15] And when we're at 75% 70 to 75% of our revenue goes to

[1:04:22] salaries to pay all you guys living salaries.

[1:04:30] It's going to get to the point where we won't have no money for capital

[1:04:34] improvements and we can't even fix the bridges we have now.

[1:04:40] It's getting to the point to where something's going to have to give.

[1:04:46] We're trying to make a step here to put that off. We're trying to save the city

[1:04:54] some money on this year's deficit. If we don't, it's going to continue to

[1:05:01] get greater and greater and greater because you're going to get a cola

[1:05:04] allowance every year. That's going to increase. That's salary

[1:05:09] revenue over our re our revenue coming in.

[1:05:16] The day's coming and it's not this council's fault. This is stuff that's

[1:05:21] been put in by previous councils not knowing when to say no.

[1:05:28] It is hard to look you guys out there and say no.

[1:05:33] But I will be voting for this to go forward to bring it online and try and

[1:05:38] save some money for the taxpayers. That's all, your honor.

[1:05:43] » All right, Susan. >> Nothing tonight.

[1:05:46] » All right, we'll move on to reports to the officer of city. Chad,

[1:05:51] » first I'll address the uh the traffic concern that you had. Uh it was brought

[1:05:56] to my attention as well. Um, I do agree that I think a a four-way stop has been

[1:06:01] put up. Um, at those two locations, um, doing a little history on accidents

[1:06:08] at those two locations, we only had, uh, three in the last two years. However, it

[1:06:14] was probably about a year and a half ago, we did a detailed based off a

[1:06:18] complaint. Um, and our officers wrote several citations there. Um, I think we

[1:06:23] have just been fortunate uh that we haven't had a more serious accident

[1:06:27] there. Um, I do agree that we need to address uh that flow of of traffic in a

[1:06:32] four-way stop. I think would be appropriate at both of those locations,

[1:06:36] Maine and Maple. Uh, I think it would help alleviate a lot of problems.

[1:06:42] » Appreciate that. >> The uh the second thing um I know I'm

[1:06:46] probably going to be asked, so I'm going to take this time here to speak on on

[1:06:49] this bill that's coming up now. um looking into it. Uh I my history of

[1:06:55] employment I am used to the 80our um rule before you before you get 80

[1:07:01] hours actually physically uh at work before you start acrewing overtime. U

[1:07:05] that is normal for me. However, when I came over to Carthage, um it is a huge

[1:07:10] benefit uh to the officers. Um I know we spoke about a lot of other agencies who

[1:07:16] don't do that. Um, and in reality, you're going to have a hard time finding

[1:07:19] what Carage has done in the past several years. Um, but what we also didn't uh

[1:07:26] have is a lot of the turnover that these agencies had um throughout the United

[1:07:32] States, not just Missouri. Um, because of special things like that that

[1:07:37] Carthage offered. That's why we have people coming to us um wanting to employ

[1:07:42] and people not leaving us uh is because of some of the benefits that come. Um it

[1:07:48] it isn't as detrimental on the 80hour rule as it is for fire for the police

[1:07:52] side. However, on average, I think it would take away um approximately $2,000

[1:07:58] per officer per year um of just normal overtime that they work. And that's on

[1:08:02] average. Obviously, some work more than others um and some don't work much at

[1:08:06] all. Um on the call back pay, um that's really where I have a hard time with. Um

[1:08:14] our current call back pay now is if I call an officer in, they get a minimum

[1:08:17] of two hours at what I call premium time. They're automatically getting two

[1:08:21] or time and a half for those hours that they're called in. Um regardless if they

[1:08:26] have taken off work for vacation, comp or sick uh in that twoe period, I think

[1:08:31] it's appropriate to pay our employees that we're demanding them to come in.

[1:08:35] they don't have a choice unless they have repercussions of u of policy

[1:08:40] violations and subordination or what have you that we're calling them in this

[1:08:45] change. If I call somebody in on their weekend off um they they automatically

[1:08:52] guaranteed premium overtime if they took off earlier in the in the pay period. U

[1:08:57] and I think that's wrong. I think that we are asking them which is a huge

[1:09:01] demand. Um, and I think we should pay them accordingly on the call back pay

[1:09:06] specifically.

[1:09:09] » That's all I have. >> Thank you, Brian.

[1:09:13] » Um, I'm going to kind of piggyback off of Chief Digger here on the call back as

[1:09:18] well. um you know to ask us to get up in the middle of the night and not pay us

[1:09:25] uh accordingly to sacrifice leaving our family whether it be on a holiday dinner

[1:09:31] um anything such as that um you know that's a big a big incentive for us that

[1:09:37] time and a half. So the call back uh is very important on us as well. Um other

[1:09:44] than that guys are working hard trying to avoid the heat and um We've been

[1:09:49] getting a little bit busy with grass fires and things like that, so we're

[1:09:53] just going at it and doing our jobs. Thank you.

[1:09:56] » Okay. Thank you, Richard.

[1:10:03] » Um, my staff is getting ready to gear up for our fall sports season. That's um

[1:10:09] baseball and soccer primarily. So, they've got to move some equipment and

[1:10:14] get everything ready on the fields. Um, as far as the swimming pool's concerned,

[1:10:18] we do have the electrical engineer um is doing a site visit. We've done several

[1:10:24] um video calls back and forth and I've sent a lot of information to him as far

[1:10:29] as information provided by CWEP um back reports that they helped us with

[1:10:37] u when this issue first came about and that's been very very beneficial. Um so

[1:10:42] I want to give them a shout out for all the past work they've done. it's it it's

[1:10:46] finally come to fruition where it's being used in a meaningful manner. And

[1:10:51] so um September 3rd, that's the date when the um

[1:10:55] electrical engineer along with the Landmark Aquatics engineers are coming

[1:11:00] down and doing their next site visit. um golf revenue is up

[1:11:07] $8,000 last year. Um as opposed to the same time frame

[1:11:15] uh year ago this month. And um even though the heat's been slowing down our

[1:11:19] walk up business, they've been really killing it on signing up new members

[1:11:23] because we've had a lot of um special tournaments that are bringing out

[1:11:27] oftowners in and people that really haven't set foot on the course and

[1:11:31] they're they're enjoying their time and they're enjoying um the facilities and

[1:11:35] the town. It it's just not the golf course. They they actually like coming

[1:11:39] to Carthage and they have a good time. And so that's helping us um make up for

[1:11:44] the kind of the dog days of summer where people aren't playing as much as they

[1:11:48] were two months ago except for Josiah. He's tough. But that's all we got here.

[1:11:56] » All right, Josiah. >> Yes. So business as usual at public

[1:11:59] works. Um I would like to highlight we we are inching closer on the sidewalk

[1:12:04] extension for the downtown area. We've had multiple meetings here in the last

[1:12:09] week and a half or so. uh just to kind of button some final things up and then

[1:12:13] we'll be able to kind of share those plans with everybody and and uh see

[1:12:17] where we're at there and uh give an update on on timing on what everybody

[1:12:21] should expect to see there. Um, also we're continuing,

[1:12:27] excuse [clears throat] me, to work on the the code enforcement and uh looking

[1:12:30] for areas to improve and and constantly uh trying to u uh enhance our system,

[1:12:37] make sure it's as efficient as possible. And I am really happy to report I I feel

[1:12:42] like we truly are seeing with just not just uh vision and some of these other

[1:12:46] groups out there that are willing to to go out into the community and and just

[1:12:51] really seek out individuals that that may need assistance and stuff. I know

[1:12:54] they greatly appreciate that and uh we love to be able to work with people and

[1:12:59] and try to make those connections if if possible to to seek some assistance

[1:13:03] there, whatever we have to do to to help people get the yards cleaned up and and

[1:13:08] uh some of their property and their structures and stuff. So, um just want

[1:13:11] to say thanks to all those volunteers that are out there, always willing to

[1:13:15] get out in the community and volunteer. Um, also I wanted to highlight on the

[1:13:20] resolution tonight, you'll see on the city of Carthage adopting the Jasper

[1:13:24] County uh multi-jurisdictional hazard mitigation plan. So, basically this

[1:13:29] resolution is a necessary step that we have to take to be able to participate

[1:13:33] in uh in the county's um overall master plan as far as the hazard mitigation. um

[1:13:39] this would uh help us to uh be involved as a natural disaster comes in or

[1:13:46] whatever. Um everything's in place to be able to receive that funding for SEMA or

[1:13:50] or FEMA assistance and stuff is is really what that's all about. So that's

[1:13:55] all I have tonight. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Tracy.

[1:13:59] » Thank you, your honor. Um, we had a meeting today, Chuck Bryant, Josiah and

[1:14:03] I, with Randy Rousson from CDN Smith, uh, regarding the economic impacts of

[1:14:10] the 171249, uh, corridor study. Um, as you might

[1:14:16] recall, that's the proposal where they would um, reroute I49 around uh, the

[1:14:21] Civil War exit to link it to 249. Um, we had strong conversations on how it would

[1:14:29] affect the uh, city of Carthage with the economic development park, all of the

[1:14:35] industries that are already um, housed here in Carthage and how they depend on

[1:14:40] uh, the I49 corridors. So, um, we hope that the message that we were able to

[1:14:47] speak um, on today with Mr. Rousson um was positive and they consider that as

[1:14:53] they move forward with that project. Also, we had a meeting of the downtown

[1:14:57] revitalization coalition where we discussed um inventory of the vacant

[1:15:02] buildings on the square. It's our goal to help the business owners um or the

[1:15:08] building owners on the square uh to get those buildings filled as we work um on

[1:15:13] economic development here in Carthage. Also, uh, don't forget the YMCA murder

[1:15:18] mystery is this Saturday at Memorial Hall. And, um, I would like to speak on

[1:15:24] the, um, council bill 2648 as well. Um, the the one, um, there was a little bit

[1:15:30] of information that was, um, not quite accurate that I want to address. Um, the

[1:15:37] discussions on the overtime issue came out of the budget committee. Uh, but

[1:15:41] those conversations started in April. It was discussed again at the May uh budget

[1:15:47] meeting. The um a notice was sent out 30 days in advance. We are required um

[1:15:54] through the contract um with the FOP to give a 30-day notice. Uh we did give a

[1:16:00] 30-day notice um for that. Um Michael Miller even met with Trent McMain

[1:16:06] regarding the policy change, the proposed policy changes. And um we have

[1:16:13] continued we have regularly meeting regular meetings um with uh the mayor,

[1:16:19] myself, Michael Mueller and uh Chief Dining and Jeff Penell uh discussing

[1:16:25] everything that is included in that contract. um we take it very seriously

[1:16:30] because we um we value our employees and we respect um their contract and we will

[1:16:37] we have not dropped those uh negotiations nor will we um it's just

[1:16:42] been timeconsuming um we have meetings I think one of them's gone like three

[1:16:47] hours um so it's we do not take that lightly and so please I I just want to

[1:16:52] make sure that all of the officers understand that that we don't um we are

[1:16:58] fortunate to have wonderful staff uh all around. Yes, our firefighters and our

[1:17:03] police department, they work hard. Um I understand their commitment to the jobs

[1:17:08] and the lack of time that they have at home with their families. I I understand

[1:17:12] that it takes away from that. Um we value we value all of our employees. Um

[1:17:18] the I hate hearing, you know, the the

[1:17:22] discussions on cutting employees. Yes. I've I've spoken many times about the

[1:17:27] sit the condition of our budget. We are in a deficit. Um but hopefully, you

[1:17:33] know, um because we value our employees, [snorts] we can look at different

[1:17:36] options um of reducing our budget instead of cutting cutting staff. And

[1:17:42] that's all I have to say. >> Okay. Thank you. Obviously, John Gold is

[1:17:46] not with us here this evening. Uh but he had nothing to give to report. So now we

[1:17:50] will entertain the report of claims presented against the city.

[1:17:55] The Committee on Claims filed a report in the amount of 1,111,367.39.

[1:18:05] » Your honor, I ask that uh we approve the claims as presented.

[1:18:09] » Second. >> All right. We have a a motion [snorts]

[1:18:13] and a second to approve the claims as submitted. Any discussion?

[1:18:20] » All in favor? All opposed?

[1:18:24] Motion's approved. All right. Next, we'll move on to public

[1:18:28] hearings. Miranda, please. >> Um, we will now hold a public hearing um

[1:18:34] to discuss the property tax rates proposed to be set by the city of

[1:18:39] Carthage. And I do have some um information on

[1:18:44] that. So, the residential assessed valuations went up approximately 2.3

[1:18:49] million. the agricultural the agricultural

[1:18:53] uh assessment went down approximately $35,000 and the commercial valuation uh

[1:19:00] increased about $3.28 million. Um overall the total assessed values

[1:19:06] increased uh about 5.4 million. So according to the Hancock amendment with

[1:19:12] the state, there are certain levels that the city

[1:19:16] can increase their levy based on the valuations and this year there was no

[1:19:20] change in our levy um as compared to last year. So the levy is 6629.

[1:19:27] » Does anyone from the public or citizen care to comment on the levy?

[1:19:36] Okay, moving on. Old business First, council [snorts] bill Miranda.

[1:19:43] The second reading of council bill 2645, an ordinance to authorize the mayor to

[1:19:48] accept state financial assistance in the amount of $5,2715

[1:19:54] on behalf of the city of Carthage and to execute any contracts resulting from

[1:19:58] such application for any grants between the city of Carthage and the Missouri

[1:20:02] Highways and Transportation Commission providing for capital operating and or

[1:20:07] marketing assistance for commission approved transit projects.

[1:20:12] Any discussion?

[1:20:16] Cast your vote.

[1:20:27] Council bill passes. Next council bill. [snorts]

[1:20:32] The second reading of council bill 2646, an ordinance amending the annual

[1:20:36] operating and capital budget of the city of Carthage for fiscal year 2025 2026

[1:20:42] for specified funds, general fund, golf fund, capital improvement tax fund, and

[1:20:47] the south economic development park fund.

[1:20:50] » Any discussion?

[1:20:54] » Cast your vote.

[1:21:02] Council bill passes. Next council bill. >> The second reading of council bill 2647.

[1:21:08] An ordinance levying general taxes upon real property located within the city of

[1:21:13] Carthage, Jasper County, Missouri for the year 2026 for general revenue

[1:21:17] purposes and other purposes and fixing the rates thereof.

[1:21:21] » Any discussion?

[1:21:25] Cast your vote. Council

[1:21:34] bill passes. Next council bill. >> The second reading of council bill 2648,

[1:21:42] an ordinance to amend section 307 overtime and section 308 compensatory

[1:21:47] time of the personnel policy manual of the city of Carthage, Missouri.

[1:21:52] » Any discussion?

[1:21:55] » [snorts] >> Lots of discussion.

[1:21:58] » Jack,

[1:22:01] I have an issue with Mr. Wells voting against the budget because of salaries.

[1:22:09] These gentlemen, ladies [snorts] put their life on the line every day.

[1:22:18] [applause]

[1:22:22] before this bill to me is an end run around a

[1:22:26] negotiating table. In other words, you you're still in negotiations for a

[1:22:30] contract, but now this one seems to go well, wait a minute, it's an end run in

[1:22:35] my opinion, but uh the point being

[1:22:41] is how how can you put a a price on someone's life? How can you do that?

[1:22:50] How can you say, "Oh, we you're only worth $40,000 a year.

[1:22:57] It's just wrong." And if they can come to an agreement on

[1:23:02] this payback or pay, not payback, >> call back

[1:23:08] » call back situation, that to me is in the negotiations.

[1:23:12] And if that was in the negotiation right now and it went to a vote of the

[1:23:18] firefighters and the police, it would be 54 to zero.

[1:23:24] No. That's how strong I think these people

[1:23:27] feel and that's how strongly I feel. It's just wrong. So if you want to

[1:23:33] continue negotiating, [clears throat] do it. Do it. And it's called a

[1:23:40] bargaining. Yeah. It's what you do. And if you come to some curl of

[1:23:44] agreement that this is terribly wrong to to cut someone's salary by $2,000 or

[1:23:51] $2,700. I heard as much as $2,700. What

[1:23:57] I'm I'm going to go way way way back. There was an officer named Ted Christie.

[1:24:01] Anybody's old enough to remember? >> Got shot down by the five times down by

[1:24:06] the memorial hall. um what he was just doing his job. He

[1:24:13] survived. However, it could happen anytime. Anytime.

[1:24:21] I'm going to go back one other thing, Ron, to the block cameras, which you

[1:24:25] voted against, which means that you voted for murderers, rapists, robbers,

[1:24:31] child molesters, kidnappers, cuz that's the way it is. You either have it you

[1:24:36] have it this way or you have it that way. You know, to me it's the same

[1:24:40] situation here. You've been preaching about cutting salaries, cutting

[1:24:44] salaries, going to lose employees, lose employees. Well, I I promise you there's

[1:24:49] lots of money that we can we can cut out of this budget.

[1:24:53] » Amen. TO TO TO [applause]

[1:24:59] not punish people who are dedicated

[1:25:04] with their jobs because they love their jobs and they want to help people and

[1:25:10] they don't want to get shot >> or hurt or whatever. See, so I'm I mean

[1:25:16] it just I'm going to go off the track, so I probably need to cool it down a

[1:25:20] little bit. It really makes me angry. All right. Any other discussion,

[1:25:26] Beth? >> Yes. I I um have talked to a number of

[1:25:30] people, including Trent. I've talked to Chad. I've talked to several people in

[1:25:34] our ward about um the ordinance. And I was remiss when it first came out in

[1:25:43] terms of maybe getting back from vacation and not looking at it as um

[1:25:47] thoroughly as I should have to understand what the implications are and

[1:25:50] what the discussion is. I am very much in favor of us looking at our budgets

[1:25:55] and take appropriate action to do so, but I also believe it's important to

[1:26:02] hear what is being said about the negotiations that are currently taking

[1:26:07] place, which everybody agrees they have been. I would really like to see those

[1:26:12] continue to work things out. And I had asked I don't know um Chief Dineer if

[1:26:17] you have anything else there you'd like to say at a few more points but I would

[1:26:20] like to I wanted to ask you to speak if you had something more about the process

[1:26:26] of negotiating. I know Trent that's handled different you know you're not

[1:26:30] doing that part directly but I I wanted to ask you to speak to that if you

[1:26:34] would. >> Yeah I will I'll tell you how it started

[1:26:36] for me. Um obviously I've been around the FOP now for 30 years so I kind of

[1:26:41] knew how things work. Um and and so so what happened is the FOP came to me and

[1:26:48] they give me a contract and they're like, "Hey Chief, we don't really want

[1:26:51] to do anything uh that you you don't you're strongly discouraged uh or just

[1:26:56] the advice of we don't want you in there." Um I took that contract, I

[1:27:00] looked it over, and I gave them my opinion. Um from there, they made some

[1:27:05] some changes to the contract. Um at that point they presented that contract to to

[1:27:10] the mayor uh city administrator and HR. Um, from there we started um our as a as

[1:27:17] a group like Tracy said um we started going through I wouldn't say weekly but

[1:27:21] it was it was periodically we were having meetings some of them lasted a

[1:27:25] very long time and we're going through that word by word line by line um seeing

[1:27:30] what we we liked in it and what we didn't like or what we couldn't do uh

[1:27:36] financially and and we continued to do that up until I think two weeks ago week

[1:27:41] and a half ago. Um, we finally finished the first

[1:27:44] section of that contract. Um, and and we are so we've been meeting, we've been

[1:27:49] negotiating, not negotiating, looking at it, and then we will then give that back

[1:27:54] to the FOP um with with our version of the bargaining. Um, I know that is is in

[1:28:01] close finishing proximity uh to to get that presented back to them. Um, so as

[1:28:06] far as the city negotiating bargaining, that has been happening. Um, I think

[1:28:12] that that this bill kind of coming into the I understand that it's this bill

[1:28:16] started its its thought process prior to the city retrie receiving the contract

[1:28:22] to start the bargaining uh part of it. Um, but during, you know, this is

[1:28:27] happening right in the middle of it. Um, and and I just think that um more

[1:28:33] negotiations needs to happen um that this might resolve itself. Um and and

[1:28:39] that's my thought on that. >> Thank you. I think that's what I was

[1:28:43] looking for because um my experience has been that we need to work things out by

[1:28:48] talking them through and I I believe that's been happening. I don't want any

[1:28:52] disrespect to the city staff that have put the time and effort in this, but I

[1:28:57] did I had the same perception is that we've already got people at the table

[1:29:03] working on this and I did not hear and listen very closely if there's anything

[1:29:08] that people are not going to try to make some tradeoffs or try to make some

[1:29:13] concessions or give a little here and there to be able to do this. the

[1:29:17] commitment and the concern that um Tracy spoke about is real. There is no

[1:29:23] question about it. So, we're going to be looking at those things and continue. Um

[1:29:28] and but I also believe that it's important to give I I just sometimes I

[1:29:33] think when we want to take something away from someone um that is a very hard

[1:29:38] pill to swallow. Now, does it happen and that's life? Yes. But I I sincerely

[1:29:44] believe that we can keep on this track and not try to put this through. And my

[1:29:49] qu my other question is if if let's say that this gets voted on through the FOP

[1:29:57] and the answer is no, then how does that reconcile with something that might pass

[1:30:03] here this evening? Um what happens? I wasn't sure what how that works. Well,

[1:30:08] actually the verbiage in this council bill is already in their contract.

[1:30:15] » They they had agreed to these changes. >> So [clears throat]

[1:30:19] » they they were um this process did start in April and again I'm just relaying how

[1:30:26] it it's happened. Um Michael Miller met with Trent McMain and and they discussed

[1:30:33] the changes. He agreed the contract u has this language um you know with the

[1:30:39] vacation and all. Um they we had a meeting when we got the contract and we

[1:30:46] discussed this um policy change and um their hopes were that the amount of

[1:30:54] savings would be used in another way to benefit the police officers.

[1:31:00] So, um, but as far as the negotiations, um, they're ongoing.

[1:31:06] » So, I'm still I don't think I I understand. So, if if if this has been a

[1:31:12] part of the negotiation already and it's in their agreement, I'm I'm just trying

[1:31:17] to figure out literally how it works because I'm not clear.

[1:31:19] » Speak on that. >> Okay.

[1:31:20] » The negotiation the this um council bill 2648 was discussed prior to us receiving

[1:31:27] the contract. The notice went out to the police department um to the FOP on

[1:31:32] approximately June 15th >> and we received the FOP contract on uh

[1:31:39] June 24th. >> Okay. So that was on your timeline.

[1:31:42] Okay. I'm just trying to I it you were going to say something.

[1:31:47] » Yeah. I So I and I don't want to speak on behalf of the FOP because I'm not I'm

[1:31:52] not in that negotiations part of it. This is my understanding. Um, so when I

[1:31:57] was given that first draft from the FOP, I noticed in there that it was the

[1:32:02] 80hour rule for overtime. Um, I then walked down the hallway and I said,

[1:32:06] "Hey, do you realize what you have in here?" Um, and the response to me back

[1:32:12] was, "Yes, we we understand that the physical being here physically 80 hours

[1:32:18] u is could be a pay cut for officers because they're not getting the premium

[1:32:22] overtime on the daily basis. We do understand that. We understand that the

[1:32:26] city is in a deficit right now and we do want to attempt to show that we

[1:32:31] understand that and we're willing to work with that, but they don't want to

[1:32:35] take the entire cut um of of that money uh and it just goes away. They were

[1:32:41] wanting to use some of that money, I don't think all of it, but some of that

[1:32:45] money for other type of benefits, whether it be longevity, whether it be

[1:32:49] by uh or do bilingual for the officers, some type of other incentive for

[1:32:56] officers to stay here, whether it be longevity pay, um other benefits that

[1:33:02] would, you know, a get recruits here to for people to apply and also keep

[1:33:07] employees here instead of just completely losing Yeah.

[1:33:13] » So if there are further negotiations that continue um then what happens to

[1:33:19] those negotiations and also then having this in this ordinance passed and in

[1:33:24] place because I'm not clear. It's like will you keep talking or

[1:33:28] » Oh yeah. Several um points in the contract that

[1:33:34] we are discussing. >> Yes. Would you would I mean I don't I

[1:33:39] don't want to I'm no expert on this so I'm just trying to kind of from an

[1:33:43] outside perspective with an obligation here to do what I can but I so if they I

[1:33:50] mean somebody else want to help me out here I'm just why don't you

[1:33:55] » So what what's the drop dead point if you're not willing to give up give are

[1:34:01] you or are you not willing to give in on this on this issue on the on I'm talking

[1:34:06] about the city. You're a part of the negotiation.

[1:34:09] » I I I can speak a little bit. I will say we we have the city has done their due

[1:34:15] diligence with this negotiation. There has been nothing negative as far as as

[1:34:20] anything ill. It's all financially. It's it's all, you know, some of the things

[1:34:25] that were in the contract that I didn't like took some authority away from me uh

[1:34:30] to be able to manage my department the way I feel like I should manage my

[1:34:33] department. Some of those things I disagreed with. and they are fully aware

[1:34:36] of what I didn't like and what I liked and why I didn't like them. Um, this

[1:34:42] city hasn't done anything illwilt. Their intent is good. Um, as far as

[1:34:46] negotiations, I mean, I I think that this bill passing it does affect us

[1:34:52] immediately. Um, and the negotiations are going to still be continuing on and

[1:34:57] this could be, you know, if they we negotiate to say, "Okay, we won't change

[1:35:01] it or we'll change it back to the way it was and this is for for nothing." Um,

[1:35:06] but I think in the meantime, it's harming the my staff. Um, until that

[1:35:12] happens, which you know, bargaining it ends when it ends, when both parties can

[1:35:17] kind of come to an agreement, whenever that may be. I'm not I'm not arguing

[1:35:21] that there's any ill will. I'm not suggesting that whatsoever.

[1:35:26] But in union negotiations, you you bargain in good faith. That's the mantra

[1:35:33] was NRB or the FLSA.

[1:35:38] So I go back to the point the fact that this bill was in existence before

[1:35:47] the negotiation started. >> That's what I'm hearing. Correct.

[1:35:52] » That the discussions were Yes. >> That that's what And so therefore

[1:35:57] I can't believe that someone would even say, you know,

[1:36:02] this is a no-go. And if you're suggesting that that Trent

[1:36:06] said, "Oh, okay. We'll do this." And now suddenly, who doesn't like it? I can't

[1:36:11] believe he didn't like it from the beginning.

[1:36:14] » I I agree that the negotiations are ongoing. I I'm not I don't think there's

[1:36:20] any I know there's no will, but um there's it's part of the negotiations.

[1:36:26] This was it started as a separate um subject from the negotiations. Then we

[1:36:32] got the contract. It it can be council has the right to make the their decision

[1:36:37] based on do they want it to be part of the ongoing negotiations that they want

[1:36:41] to address it now. It can easily be uh tabled and brought back as part of the

[1:36:47] negotiations. We would love to be able to give them

[1:36:52] all of our employees, you know, a pay raise or anything, you know, more um

[1:36:56] better equipment, things like that. We just have to figure out how to come to

[1:37:01] terms with with our budget and hopefully, like I said, not to the the

[1:37:07] detriment of the departments.

[1:37:11] » Lon, >> I was going to say I think, and correct

[1:37:14] me if I'm wrong, but the the way you were trying to ask the question is

[1:37:19] whether we decide for or against this today, it could be obsolete once the

[1:37:24] negotiation comes to us and and they say this is what we want. So, so is that

[1:37:28] what you were trying to ask, I guess. >> Well, I'm ju just trying to get

[1:37:31] clarification because I just feel like that it has

[1:37:34] » it's come in the middle of what was the dialogue and the communications that

[1:37:38] were taking place. It's not not wrong to tackle this, but I just think that

[1:37:44] having two parallel efforts and one's going to keep going and then we have to

[1:37:48] see how it is. it just it's got I it's already um you know it's already

[1:37:54] disruptive and I want to see it work in a process and again nobody's mad or

[1:38:01] whatever but I think it's important that we try to pick the most workable path to

[1:38:06] come up with the solutions and I feel like this is

[1:38:10] encroaching upon that and I I don't think that's fair to the people that

[1:38:14] were trying to um ask us to ask them to protect protect us and our community.

[1:38:21] » In just my thoughts, I think as a council, I want to believe and I know I

[1:38:26] I voted in favor of this. We care about our city staff, right? We we approved

[1:38:30] two raises this year, showing you financially that that we care about you

[1:38:36] guys and we want you guys to stay in Carthage and we recognize that you guys

[1:38:39] are the reason that we are as great as we are. Um,

[1:38:44] however, we do still have the dilemma of of being in deficit spending, right? And

[1:38:50] so, I I think as a city, the majority of us have made a good faith effort to to

[1:38:56] pay you guys and compensate you. Um, and I think, correct me if I'm wrong, we are

[1:39:00] one of the better paying, at least for our fire and and police officers. I know

[1:39:04] there was some misinformation out there saying that we're paying less, but I

[1:39:07] believe we are one of the higher paying. Um I know we pay better than Joplin, but

[1:39:11] um cities uh in the area, correct? No. >> Carl Junction and Web City.

[1:39:17] » Carl Junction and Web City are the ones that that pay better than us or we're

[1:39:20] better than Carl Junction and Web City. I I know the the starting wage uh for

[1:39:25] Joplin uh currently is uh 40,800 based on a um job advertisement that they had.

[1:39:33] They have the the tax that they were talking about um that they are proposing

[1:39:38] increasing the starting salary. So that would put the um Joplin PD higher than

[1:39:44] than >> but currently I mean because that could

[1:39:46] fall through but currently we're >> currently we are higher.

[1:39:49] » We are higher. Okay. Um, and again, we've put steps into place. I know that

[1:39:54] we have another raise coming at the end of the year. I think that's the step

[1:39:58] raise, right, that we approved or is this the

[1:39:59] » January one? >> January 1st. Yeah. So, I mean, at least

[1:40:04] I know if I had unlimited money, I definitely believe everyone deserves a

[1:40:09] lot lot more money. Um, your jobs aren't easy. I recognize it. I think everybody

[1:40:15] here recognizes that the dilemma is what's the alternative, right?

[1:40:20] And I think we we've kind of talked about that could be losing jobs, losing

[1:40:24] other benefits. Um, and again, ultimately, if negotiations

[1:40:31] go through and that's brought to the council, all this could be obsolete

[1:40:34] really. >> So, but because it was brought up prior,

[1:40:39] I think we need to follow through with it.

[1:40:43] » Any other discussion? >> Yes, your honor. I want to answer

[1:40:47] certain council members on me. Uh

[1:40:54] I'm part of the budget committee and I ask

[1:41:00] all the department heads to take a look at their needs versus their wants

[1:41:06] here. Now you're wanting to cut some capital to bring us within budget, but

[1:41:11] they would not. They refused to cut their wants.

[1:41:15] They wanted their needs which would have put us in a

[1:41:21] non-deficent area. Second, I've served this country for

[1:41:28] over 20 years in the military. I also served with the sheriff

[1:41:34] department after I got out. >> I know what it's like

[1:41:40] to be in a position of threat. And it is not easy to want

[1:41:50] to represent the taxpayer here.

[1:41:55] Now, if you're willing to ask the taxpayer to pay more money, then great.

[1:42:00] Let's put it to the taxes, the citizens, and let them vote on it.

[1:42:06] I have never felt that these officers

[1:42:12] that are caring for us are not needed or worthless.

[1:42:20] And I voted against the flock cameras, not for the reasons that you're coding

[1:42:25] quoting, but for reasons that were presented to

[1:42:29] me by the public that I represent and that I'm elected

[1:42:35] to represent. That's just a difference of opinion

[1:42:38] between you and me. That's all we are.

[1:42:45] Rob. >> Um, so and I just want to address really

[1:42:50] the the officers and the firemen in the the room more. Um, just a little history

[1:42:55] about me. So my husband is uh was a 30y year uh first responder. So I lived the

[1:43:01] life that all of you are living. We missed Christmases. My kids never

[1:43:05] celebrated a Christmas on a Christmas ever. Um we did have Thanksgiving very

[1:43:11] rarely on Thanksgiving. I understand. I understand what overtime means to you.

[1:43:15] That that is your bread and butter. Um, and I understand what it means.

[1:43:20] [clears throat] But I also want you to understand from our perspective, we do

[1:43:25] have the deficit. We've got to do something. So what I would say to you

[1:43:28] and Trent perhaps you and and Chad and um Jason um when you come back to the

[1:43:34] table [clears throat] kind of consider what

[1:43:37] else could we do like what's the other options or think about that or you know

[1:43:42] talk about it amongst yourselves please because we do we've got we do have to

[1:43:46] come up with something and it's not just your responsibility please don't think

[1:43:50] it's not fire and police's only responsibility you know it's it's on

[1:43:53] Josiah it's on Richard too it's on it's on the office staff. Everybody's got to

[1:43:58] make a sacrifice. And what I'm wrestling with is [clears throat] if we don't do

[1:44:04] something in this realm, you know, it could be the person to your left or your

[1:44:08] right who in a year from now maybe doesn't have a job. And I'm struggling

[1:44:12] with that thought like what if we what if we did have to make layoffs? Like I

[1:44:16] don't want to do that to somebody. But, um, I mean, what I want to what I will

[1:44:21] say is, you know, I I probably wasn't going to vote I was probably going to

[1:44:26] vote yes, but I feel like there's been enough discussion [clears throat] that I

[1:44:30] don't think it hurts for us to keep talking. Um, but I'm asking you for your

[1:44:37] help. If you can if you can think of something,

[1:44:42] help [clears throat] each help us out. Help each other out.

[1:44:45] That's what we really need because we do we really do have a deficit. We I went

[1:44:49] to the budget meetings. I mean, it's it's not made up. There's there's a lack

[1:44:54] of money that we can kick keep kicking the can, but eventually it runs out. Um

[1:45:00] and I don't want that to happen. So, um I'm going to vote no so that we can go

[1:45:07] back to the drawing board and keep negotiating and come up with some things

[1:45:12] because I think that that is worth it um for all sides. I don't want there to be

[1:45:22] hard feelings because we made a decision and then you know it comes out later. we

[1:45:28] could have. I don't want to waste all of our time because something comes up in

[1:45:31] the contract and then this again was all for nothing. Um, but please, if you can

[1:45:37] help us out. I mean, that's genuine. If you've got an idea, kick it to us. I

[1:45:42] mean, I'm open to hearing it. So, that's all.

[1:45:46] » Any other discussion? >> Yeah. And I'd like to piggyback off of

[1:45:49] what Robin's saying on if you guys if you guys want this, you need to help us

[1:45:56] come up with a solution to um make it happen for you. In my mind, I'm thinking

[1:46:02] if if we keep if we keep it like it is and

[1:46:06] it gets to the point where we have to lay off two or three officers, okay, you

[1:46:11] guys are short-handed. You're going to have to work overtime. And guess what?

[1:46:15] It's gonna it's going to come down to paying more than what we are wanting to

[1:46:19] pay because of the extra overtime you're going to be working and you guys are

[1:46:23] going to get burned out and it's going the turnover is just going to keep

[1:46:26] happening. I feel like if we could work something out where even like Ron said,

[1:46:31] figure out your wants and needs, we let us help you wherever you can, we can.

[1:46:36] And and I was going to go into this looking at my ward and my city at voting

[1:46:43] uh voting yes on this, but having the discussions, I think I would prefer to

[1:46:48] have more discussions on this and vote no and just discuss more on it, go

[1:46:54] further. [snorts] That's all. Okay, >> Jack, I don't know how you put a dollar

[1:47:01] number on a life. I do not understand.

[1:47:07] And we're talking about a minimal amount of money.

[1:47:14] 90 some odd thousand. Okay, big deal. But I'm talking about what's in their

[1:47:17] pockets and how they how do they deal with their

[1:47:21] families? How do they take care of their families? It's no different than CWP.

[1:47:25] What's not in their on on your line is reliability and service. That's what you

[1:47:30] pay for. And what you have in Carthage is a safe city.

[1:47:36] The first time my wife was ever up here from South Texas, she said it feels safe

[1:47:40] here. And why is that? Cuz we have these these people to take

[1:47:46] care of us. And I can't imagine saying, "Well, we're going to lay

[1:47:51] somebody off just because we don't have any money."

[1:47:55] We can find money. We can find money. >> [clears throat]

[1:48:03] » may I I think we we probably do need more time just to let the conversation

[1:48:08] go. So, I'm going to make a motion to table this um

[1:48:13] at least till [clears throat] our next council meeting so that the FOP, the

[1:48:17] city can can continue talks, negotiations, um

[1:48:22] because ultimately whether we vote for it or against it and and and they decide

[1:48:28] something else, this decision is not going to matter, right? If we end up

[1:48:31] voting something else in um so I make the motion we table this.

[1:48:36] » Second. Okay. I have a motion and a second to table council bill 2648

[1:48:43] uh until at least the next meeting or perhaps longer. Any discussion?

[1:48:51] » All in favor? >> I.

[1:48:53] » All opposed? >> No.

[1:48:57] » All right, Jack, you want to add any comment on that?

[1:49:00] » I made a lot of them so far. >> Okay.

[1:49:02] » Um if you going to lay it two weeks, then what? It gonna be another two weeks

[1:49:07] and then another two weeks. >> It's got to be resolved between

[1:49:13] the FPO FOP I get my acronym this way and and the

[1:49:19] city has to be resolved and not to the detriment

[1:49:26] of this group of people. the city can take

[1:49:33] some. You know, there's a way to find it. I know there has to be. We can't

[1:49:38] just keep hammering on this on the on the reason that these people keep keep

[1:49:43] us safe. You know, I had an electrical fire three

[1:49:48] years ago and they were out there just like that.

[1:49:53] keep keep my house from burning down and terrible smoke damage and all that

[1:49:59] kind of thing. And that's what we have in this city because the employees are

[1:50:06] dedicated. They love their jobs. They love what they're doing. And if you're

[1:50:10] going to say we're going to not give you more money, that's total BS. That's

[1:50:15] that. [applause]

[1:50:21] Any other discussion then? Motion is tabled. All right, moving on

[1:50:27] to new business. There we have none this evening. We'll now move on to Mayor

[1:50:31] War's appointments. Miranda, >> the mayor's appointment of Annie Golden

[1:50:35] to the Civil War Museum board until December 2027.

[1:50:42] » Make a motion we um allow the mayor's appointment to the Civil War Board.

[1:50:47] » Second. >> I have a motion, a second to approve the

[1:50:51] appointments. Any discussion? All in favor? I.

[1:50:56] » All opposed. Appointment is confirmed. We'll now move

[1:51:01] on to resolutions. >> First resolution.

[1:51:04] » Sorry. Resolution 2129, a resolution of the city of Carthage adopting the Jasper

[1:51:10] County multi-jurisdictional hazard mitigation plan.

[1:51:14] Any discussion?

[1:51:18] » Cast your vote. >> I need a motion first.

[1:51:21] » Oh, I'm sorry. So moved. >> Second. I

[1:51:24] » have a motion, a second to adopt the resolution. Any discussion?

[1:51:30] » Cast your vote.

[1:51:41] Resolution is adopted. All right. We will now move on to

[1:51:45] closing comments. And I will start just a couple things for the council. Uh,

[1:51:50] number one, I think everyone understands this, but just to make sure we're clear,

[1:51:56] any contract, the current contract that has been profered by the FOP only

[1:52:03] represents those members of the FOP. It does not represent fire department. It

[1:52:08] doesn't represent any other members of the city. Just so we're straight. and

[1:52:12] any contract that the city would enter into, you as the council members would

[1:52:17] have to vote to approve or uh not that contract. So, just make sure we're we're

[1:52:22] tracking from that perspective. Okay. Other than that, again, my hats

[1:52:28] off to Sergeant Adams who took one for the team, so to speak. So, if you have a

[1:52:33] chance to see him, uh please offer your best well wishes. And we will move on to

[1:52:39] uh other closing comments. Susan, we'll start with you.

[1:52:42] » None tonight. Thank you, >> Ron.

[1:52:45] » Nothing. >> Bet.

[1:52:47] » On a on a different note, um I would like to say congratulations.

[1:52:53] This is the first week of school starting and many families also said

[1:52:57] goodbye as their seniors went on to be freshman in college or go into other

[1:53:02] opportunities. And so I wish the staff and the administration and the students

[1:53:07] especially the seniors a great year because I think that's going to be class

[1:53:11] of what 2027. So that's something and I really um appreciate then on this the

[1:53:17] topic of this it's important to have these discussions that we have in order

[1:53:23] to do and make the best decisions possible um for our community and for

[1:53:29] our our our police and our and our fire as well as our other employees. We are

[1:53:35] very very lucky. But I also think that um and one of the things I appreciate is

[1:53:40] that I think we can stop and reassess and that's sometimes very rare these

[1:53:45] days. So I think that by doing so we're going to come out with a better

[1:53:50] decision. Um hopefully that's [clears throat] fair and equitable and

[1:53:53] it does mean effort on everybody's part. So thank you

[1:53:58] » Alan.

[1:54:01] So I I guess I would like to start by saying that I have always supported the

[1:54:06] police and fire department in this position.

[1:54:10] Unfortunately in this position we have to make very difficult decisions.

[1:54:15] Uh if they were easy, everybody would want to do it. And if they were much

[1:54:21] harder, nobody would want to do it. But we have to make difficult decisions.

[1:54:26] And sometimes the decision is not about can

[1:54:31] we give somebody more money? Can we give them less money? It's a matter of do we

[1:54:36] look at what we're doing and is what we're doing consistent with what other

[1:54:42] people are doing, what other cities are doing, what other government agencies

[1:54:46] are doing, what we're doing within the city, within departments.

[1:54:51] Um, and we we have to make a decision of

[1:54:57] should we try to be consistent? I'm sorry, mayor, could you please ask

[1:55:03] the comments in the audience to stop?

[1:55:08] » What comments? >> I hear comments while I'm speaking and

[1:55:12] I've heard comments all during the whole meeting.

[1:55:15] » So, please, Bill, >> I don't know what the hell you're

[1:55:17] talking about. >> All right. Well, the audience will

[1:55:19] please remain respectful and quiet. So, Al, please finish.

[1:55:23] » I have no further comments, your honor. >> All right. Thank you, Jack.

[1:55:27] A point of irritation to me is that [clears throat] we talk about Web City,

[1:55:32] Carl Junction, the Osho, you name it. >> We don't live there. This is our city.

[1:55:39] And what happens in other cities, you might say, "Well, we're we're similar to

[1:55:45] or we're better than or we're not quite as good as it." To me, it doesn't make a

[1:55:49] a bit of difference. We're talking about our city being the way it is. And my

[1:55:56] contention is because we have great employees who

[1:56:02] are dedicated and want to see our city stay safe and uh secure.

[1:56:09] » Okay. Thank you, Mariela. >> Your honor.

[1:56:12] » All right. Robin. >> Yes, your honor. I I I want to comment

[1:56:16] just a couple of things. I think that um Trent, you're still here. I just want

[1:56:22] to ask if I'm clear when we discussed what you really wanted was the

[1:56:27] tableabling. Are you do you feel like that is what you asked for? Cuz that's

[1:56:31] what you asked me for. Not necessarily a no vote, but a table for you guys to

[1:56:36] have some time to talk and continue to work.

[1:56:39] » Whatever you guys did, as long as it was a yes, was perfectly fine.

[1:56:42] » Okay. Great. Great. So, secondarily, I just want to say that, you know, um to

[1:56:48] piggyback a little bit off what Allan said, just um you know, just because you

[1:56:53] sometimes don't don't vote exactly the way that um someone else thinks doesn't

[1:56:58] necessarily mean it's because you don't care or you don't want safety. Um my

[1:57:03] house caught on fire, too. Jack and the police department came and um I don't

[1:57:08] mean to get emotional, but this is a really really um close to my heart

[1:57:14] topic. I live this life for 27 years being married. And it's a little

[1:57:20] insulting for you to imply that because I maybe vote differently than you means

[1:57:26] that I don't care. Because I'm telling you, nobody in this room could care

[1:57:31] could care more than me about what's going on.

[1:57:35] um in these officers and firefighters lives and so or that because we didn't

[1:57:39] vote no or because we we tabled instead of voting doesn't mean that we don't

[1:57:44] care about what's happening to them. Um I've lost a lot of sleep since I talked

[1:57:49] to Trent a week ago because this is weighed on me. Um

[1:57:54] and I don't want my vote to ever make them think that I don't care about

[1:57:59] what's going on with them. So, um I don't think being the loudest person

[1:58:05] in the room makes you necessarily the rightest person. So, I

[1:58:09] » Are you talking to me? >> Yeah.

[1:58:11] » Why? >> I am.

[1:58:12] » Why? Why? >> I I think it's

[1:58:14] » You know, you and I you and I have had it out a number of times. So, you know,

[1:58:17] if you're going to say something, just say, "Hey, Jack, are you call me by my

[1:58:21] name or call me Mr. Perkins or you call me Hold it, Jack. Just hold it. Just if

[1:58:26] you want to have a follow- on conversation outside, that's fine. I

[1:58:29] invite you to do so civily. >> Oh,

[1:58:32] » Robin, your time. You're >> I'm I'm done.

[1:58:35] » Okay. Thank you, Juan. >> I just want to remind everyone that

[1:58:40] we're all here because we love Carthage, right? We're all trying to do what's

[1:58:43] best for Carthage and we all have our opinions, right? Um whether they're

[1:58:48] right, whether they're wrong, um I I can guarantee that all of you guys at some

[1:58:54] point I've voted with you and I voted against you. That doesn't mean that I

[1:58:58] love the city any more than you or that you love it any more than I do. We all

[1:59:01] love Carthage. We're all serving our city because we care about Carthage and

[1:59:04] we want what's best. Um, multiple things could be right, right? Um, however,

[1:59:13] we always have to keep that in mind. We're all here because we love Carthage.

[1:59:17] Okay. Um,

[1:59:21] we have to make tough decisions. This is a tough decision. And anytime you're

[1:59:24] you're dealing with people's money, it's a tough decision. Um,

[1:59:28] and it should be a tough decision every single time that we approve anything,

[1:59:31] right? Because it's not our money, it's our our city folks's money, right? So,

[1:59:36] um, when you start getting hot or upset

[1:59:40] about anything, just remember, we're all here for the same reason. We want

[1:59:44] Carthage to do good. Okay. Um, I love the city. Everyone in here, I believe,

[1:59:50] loves the city. No matter whether you voted with me or against me, I know we

[1:59:53] all care about the city the same way. So continue to remember that whenever those

[1:59:59] moments get heated and you feel yourself getting upset that

[2:00:02] that we all love the city and and we all want what's best. That's all I have.

[2:00:07] » All right. Thank you. There are nothing else. I'd entertain a motion to adjurnn.

[2:00:11] » I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> Second.

[2:00:13] » Have a motion second to adjurnn. All in favor?

[2:00:15] » I I all opposed. We are journed.

City Council Meeting

Agenda

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