[4:59] Good evening everybody. Can everybody hear me? Okay. No.

[5:05] Oh. How about this one? No. Where's

[5:11] Chris? Yeah. Abby, we have no mics. They're not working.

[5:18] We are having technical difficulties now. Most of us have good

[5:22] loud voices, but maybe you just have you have to kind of speak into this.

[5:29] No. Okay. We're we're going to be uh putting

[5:35] this on YouTube if we can get it to work.

[5:41] Our techie fellow just left and Abigail was back up for one other meeting.

[5:50] So if technology can fail, it's always at the worst time.

[9:10] Do you want us to test it?

[9:30] Okay, so we're going to call the meeting to order and thank you for your

[9:33] patience. I want to welcome all of you here tonight. This is a topic that we've

[9:38] talked about for quite some time. Tonight we have the professionals with

[9:42] us who will be able to answer some questions that most of us couldn't

[9:47] answer and that is Brad who works for a new terra. So uh think about what you

[9:53] want to ask and we will have a question and answer period sort of towards the

[9:57] end I would imagine. So with us Joe and Sonia are going to take the lead and uh

[10:03] I'm just going to sit back and take some notes. So welcome and please

[10:08] participate. Great. Thank you Madame Mayor. Uh good evening everybody. Um

[10:12] thank you for all for taking the time to join us for this session both here in

[10:15] person and we do have people joining us online via Zoom. Uh we had promised it

[10:20] on YouTube. YouTube will come tomorrow. It seems like we're going to record it

[10:23] and have to post it because technology is great when it works. So uh the

[10:28] purpose of this session is to provide an opportunity. Well, I just about to do

[10:34] that. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. So uh my name is Sonia Bolton. I'm the manager of

[10:39] community planning for the county of Frontac and our team provides planning

[10:42] services to the township of central Frontac today. So joining us um as as

[10:48] Fran mentioned we have Brad Gaffne from New Terra. Thank you Brad for making uh

[10:51] the trip up here. Uh Joe Gallivan uh with the county of Frontac and Alex

[10:56] Petra is also with the county. And then we have Abby McKinnon joining us from

[11:00] the township as well. And also in attendance tonight. I'm going to try and

[11:04] not miss anybody. We have uh several counselors uh from the township of

[11:08] Central Front. We have Danny Meeks, uh, Susan Irwin, Duncan McGregor, Philip

[11:13] Smith, and Nikki Gaudy. Did I miss anybody? No. Okay, great. Wonderful. Um,

[11:20] so as I said, the purpose of this session is to provide an opportunity to

[11:24] learn more about uh, communal services and to basically start a conversation in

[11:29] the community about how the township could be using this technology moving

[11:34] forward. Um, some of you have probably heard of communal services mentioned in

[11:38] conjunction with the former school site. Um, so but tonight and and future

[11:43] conversations, this is about more than just the school site. It's about the

[11:46] township as a whole. Uh, so I've got a couple of housekeeping items to review.

[11:51] Um, but first I wanted to share the land acknowledgement that the township has

[11:54] that we are gathering tonight. Uh and we begin by acknowledging that the land on

[11:59] which we are gathering is the traditional and unseated territory of

[12:02] the Algangquin nation. Uh so I just wanted to note as well if you want to

[12:08] receive notices uh about any future meetings or reports about this uh

[12:13] subject to please sign the sign-in sheets that are by the door there

[12:16] because we can be sending updates to you if you want to stay in touch about that.

[12:20] uh we are being joined online uh via the Zoom platform and uh so for those of us

[12:27] or that are joining online they can only hear us when the mics are being used. So

[12:31] what that means unfortunately when we get to sort of the question and answer

[12:35] session if you do have a question we'll have to ask you to come up we've got

[12:38] another microphone set up there uh for you to use or I can repeat your question

[12:43] if if that's easier for you than than coming up front. Um I think that's

[12:47] almost it. Yeah, just just a friendly reminder to mute your phones and

[12:51] devices. Please feel free to step out if you have to take a call. Uh for those

[12:55] people who are joining us online um through Zoom, you can use the raise hand

[12:59] feature on Zoom or if you're on your phone, you can dial star9 uh to raise

[13:03] your hand. Um any questions about the process for tonight? The our intent is

[13:08] to provide you with a presentation that might run about 45 minutes or so. Um and

[13:12] we'll have time at the end for discussions and questions. Um if there's

[13:16] any burning questions along the way, please feel free to ask, but it might

[13:19] run a little bit more um as sort of seamless for the folks online if we can

[13:24] wait uh uh till the end. Okay, so with that, Abby, do you mind sharing the

[13:42] presentation? Great. Thank you. And I am just going to test that my remote

[13:46] changer works. All right. Something technological that's working well

[13:50] tonight. Yay. Okay. So, uh just a bit of an outline about what we're going to

[13:55] talk about tonight. First of all, we're going to start off by talking what what

[13:58] are communal services because many people have not heard about them. Um

[14:02] I'll talk a little bit about why the county of of Front has um chosen to

[14:07] pursue this review about communal services and its use uh going forward

[14:12] and about how it's led to the creation of a public utility uh known now as

[14:16] Fraac Municipal Services. I'll then I'll turn it over to Brad who is actually

[14:20] here to talk about the technology itself and how it works. And then our last few

[14:25] slides are going to circle back and we're going to talk about um how we use

[14:29] this from a land use planning perspective and a community building

[14:32] perspective and the kinds of things that central front needs to think about um

[14:37] about how it could use this technology in the

[14:40] future. So to start off uh in terms of what uh communal services are. So

[14:45] communal services are basically they're shared drinking water and sewage systems

[14:49] that provide water and wastewater treatment to a cluster of residences or

[14:54] businesses. They're also sometimes referred to as decentralized services.

[14:59] They operate on the same basic principles as your traditional uh or

[15:03] conventional municipal treatment plants. Um but they're not connected to a large

[15:09] single facility. So instead they're sort of they're called right-size facilities

[15:13] that treat water and waste water close to where it is needed or

[15:20] created. They so it communal services can be less expensive than centralized

[15:26] municipal services and it reduces the cost of needing to pipe water or waste

[15:31] water over long distances. They are also more environmentally friendly than your

[15:35] traditional uh private on-site services such as an individual septic

[15:41] system. So why pursue it? So this quote here comes from the county of Frontac's

[15:47] official plan and that is that the lack of municipal services in our villages

[15:51] challenges the future community viability of of those villages.

[15:57] So in our villages we don't have any traditional

[16:01] municipal water or sewer services save one exception the village of Sydnum does

[16:06] have piped water and that came about because of an order from the Ministry of

[16:11] Environment about 25 years ago but that's the only sort of piped service

[16:15] that we have anywhere currently in Frontac. our historic settlement areas.

[16:20] So our villages and our hamlets, we have building lots in like here in Charbet

[16:25] Lake that are very small and but the modern standard today for a new house

[16:30] and a well and a septic system is to have it on a lot that is at least 2

[16:35] acres in size. So that's8 of a hectare. Um our villages and our hamlets are also

[16:42] where a lot of our commercial assessment, all of our businesses are

[16:45] located. um and a lot of our community services such as our schools, our

[16:49] medical centers, and to do traditional municipal services would be a

[16:55] significant public infrastructure investment that that honestly it's just

[16:59] it's too too much for for our townships to be able to afford those traditional

[17:04] services.

[17:08] So the county over the course of the last nine years has been looking into

[17:13] the issue of communal services and reviewing the technology, the policies,

[17:18] the regulations and the governance models that can be used in order to see

[17:22] whether we can leverage this as something that we use as a tool to help

[17:26] build and sustain our communities.

[17:31] So, some of the advantages, communal services allows you to be able to

[17:36] develop on smaller lots, which is a better fit when you're looking at infill

[17:41] or redevelopment or new development within v uh villages and hamlets. It

[17:46] helps to strengthen the local economy by supporting businesses as well as other

[17:49] community infrastructure like our schools. um by by keeping things a bit

[17:54] more dense and you end up with more sort of compact walkable communities and it

[17:59] also opens the door for different types of housing. Right now when you develop

[18:03] on private services generally what gets developed are single detached dwellings

[18:07] which is fine but when that's the only choice you have people lose out on the

[18:11] option of having other options for housing such as town homes, small

[18:15] apartments and so communal services particularly in villages and hamlets can

[18:19] make that possible.

[18:23] in terms of the environmental advantages and and Brad will speak to this in more

[18:27] detail, but from what we have found that there are better environmental and

[18:31] public health protections in place with communal services than there are with

[18:36] private on-site services. So, there's fewer malfunctions, longer life to the

[18:40] system, and with regular maintenance, you're looking at things like measuring

[18:43] the performance, monitoring impacts, fixing problems early.

[18:49] So, this might be a little difficult to see. I'm going to describe it in a bit

[18:52] more detail, but on the left is a diagram of a subdivision uh that is near

[18:59] Inverary. Um it is approved and I don't know if it's mostly built, but it's at

[19:03] least partially built. And it's a traditional estate lot development with

[19:08] 16 single detached dwellings on lots that are approximately 1 and a half

[19:13] acres in size. they had to do some extra studies to prove that they could build

[19:17] and have septic systems on on less than two acres. And the green rectangles that

[19:22] you see in that left picture, those are the septic uh beds, not the houses. Um

[19:27] so when the county was working with the consultant, we hired um that communal

[19:33] services study that I mentioned, we we worked with a consulting group called

[19:36] WSP and we said to them, if you took this development as it is, what could

[19:42] you build if you built everything on communal services instead of individual

[19:47] septic systems? And what they came up with is on the right hand side. So with

[19:52] that it would be there'd be a mixeduse development with a uh commercial block.

[19:56] So the commercial block is right near the main street. It's in sort of the

[19:59] purpley pink color. There are 41 uh singles uh single detach. Those are the

[20:05] light brown. Uh nine town homes. Those are in orange along the back. And then a

[20:09] 12 unit apartment building in red in the lower left corner. So a significant

[20:14] total number of 62 units as opposed to the 16 that were there before which is

[20:18] what is possible u just through using communal services and the top right hand

[20:23] corner on the right hand side that is where the communal septic field and and

[20:27] septic system would be located for that entire development. So that's just an

[20:32] example that we use based on a real life uh site and development in terms of how

[20:38] could we redevelop it on communal

[20:42] services. So essentially in terms of how it all works there's really I think

[20:47] three three main pieces. One the first one is governance and operations. So how

[20:52] is this all working? Who is watching over it? Who is looking after everything

[20:55] and taking care of everything? There's the technology itself which which brad

[21:00] will speak to and then there's the land use planning. How do you want to use it

[21:03] in your community? Where do you want to use it? What kind what do you want to

[21:06] get out of it? What types of housing do you want to get out of? So these are

[21:09] sort of the three main pieces that we're going to touch on in the remainder of

[21:12] the presentation. So the first one in terms of governance

[21:18] structure um that there was a second part to the study that the county worked

[21:22] on with the with WSP and that was looking at what is the best way to

[21:27] oversee how how this could be done in our

[21:30] community. And what they ended up with in terms of their top recommendation uh

[21:35] was the use of a municipal service corporation. And the reason for that is

[21:41] this, as Brad will explain, the technology for this has been around a

[21:44] long time. It just hasn't been used very often in Ontario yet. Um because what

[21:51] happens is once a private developer comes and wants to build with communal

[21:55] services, particularly when it involves permanent residential homes, the

[21:59] province requires what is called a municipal responsibility agreement or an

[22:04] MRA. So they're required when the development is going to be privately

[22:08] owned and operated. And they're basically a legal agreement between the

[22:12] municipality and the developer or the site owner. And the site owner could be

[22:16] one person, it could be a condo corporation of of people. And basically

[22:21] what it is, it provides oversight at the municipal level for how everything is

[22:25] going to operate. It basically means if the developer walks away or the system

[22:30] fails, the municipality will step in and they will take care of everything. Most

[22:35] municipalities don't want to do this because they can't afford to do it. So

[22:39] what they do is they say to the developer, okay, we will do this. We

[22:44] will sign this agreement, but if your system costs a million dollars, then we

[22:49] want a million dollars in securities to keep in the bank because that's the only

[22:54] way we can step in and help if we have to. And the developer says, "Well, you

[22:58] just doubled the cost of my development and I can't afford to do this anywhere

[23:03] or anymore." So thank you and they walk away. So with the municipal service

[23:10] corporation which is the route that that frontac county decided to go through. Um

[23:15] it is essentially a corporation in and of itself. So if if you're familiar with

[23:20] the city of Kingston at all, the city of Kingston has utilities Kingston. So the

[23:24] the council of the city of Kingston is the board of directors for utilities

[23:29] Kingston, but they are two separate legal entities under the law. So by

[23:34] using a municipal service corporation, you get to be able to have these types

[23:39] of services which helps align with long-term growth for the community so

[23:43] that you can grow within your villages and have other housing options. It

[23:47] allows for consistency all across the region. So it's not like one township in

[23:51] FRA neck is doing something that the others can't do. Um it separates

[23:55] finances. So the the budget for the townships is different from the budgets

[24:01] for for the utility corporation. It allows for profits and profit sharing.

[24:06] Now the corporation's only two years old, not even at this point. So there's

[24:10] there's not a lot of profits right away, but the idea is that eventually profits

[24:14] will be generated. the shareholders who are the townships will then be able to

[24:19] receive those monies and be able to reinvest those for the benefit of their

[24:23] communities. Um it can limit political influence by having it be a separate

[24:27] body. Um and the services in the corporation remain 100% publicly owned

[24:33] by the participating municipalities. So what we have I

[24:38] apologize I'm changing two different slides here and I'm not keeping up. My

[24:42] apologies everybody.

[24:47] Okay. So, the regional public utility that was formed uh a municipal service

[24:53] corporation by the name of Frontac Municipal Services um is now what is in

[24:57] place uh across Fontineac and they have in the last little while they've hired

[25:02] an operator. So, it is a company called Clearford who have experience all across

[25:07] Ontario and other areas of the country as well in terms of operating and

[25:11] managing these systems. So I'm going to remember to turn my slides this time. So

[25:15] in terms of where we are now with Frontac Municipal Services, all four

[25:19] townships and the county have joined this public municipal utility. It was

[25:24] officially incorporated by the province in November 2023. Uh it has a board of

[25:30] directors and it also has a technical working group that are working on best

[25:33] practices to get the utility up and running. Uh the county uh of FRNAC

[25:38] amended its official plan which is an official plan is like a community's

[25:42] blueprint for how you're going to grow and develop over time. Um it was amended

[25:46] to recognize communal services and now it's the turn for the townships to look

[25:51] at amending their official plans to recognize communal services and that's

[25:54] what this conversation is about is about starting those discussions about how you

[25:59] want to use that technology and where in in your community going on going

[26:04] forward. So now I think I'm going to turn it over to Brad. Yeah. Yeah. Just

[26:10] Yeah. Just the right arrow. Hello everyone. Can you hear me? Okay.

[26:15] Great. Um thank you for having me. It's an honor. Uh Joe and Sonia and it's

[26:20] friend. Thank you for having me in. It's been um uh I've been with Nutra. Uh

[26:24] we're a water treatment company. Actually, we're an environmental company

[26:27] first, but we're focused on water treatment. Uh so I'm an engineer there.

[26:30] I've been there for about 21 years. Um building water treatment equipment. So,

[26:35] um, I was inspired a little bit when I first started in Terra with the fact

[26:39] that water is, uh, been around for quite a few years, about 4.5 billion. Um,

[26:44] there's not new water. We only have what's here as far as fresh water goes.

[26:50] So, keeping it clean is is a very uh, you know, important part of of what we

[26:54] need to do for future generations. Um, and Nutra has uh over the years grown

[27:00] through different verticals of of treating water, whether it's

[27:03] contaminated groundwater from a gas station that spilled oil or gas into the

[27:07] water um aquifer, and we pull it out and we separate the oil and water and clean

[27:12] it um to to all the way to sewage treatment um reusable water for certain

[27:17] applications of of food and beverage um industrial applications. But today um

[27:22] I'm going to talk a bit about sewage treatment and the technology um MBR. So

[27:28] it uh stands for something called membrane bioreactor. So as an engineer I

[27:32] can just see if people start to glaze over. I'll try to minimize the the

[27:36] boringness of it and um move quickly through it. So but if there are further

[27:40] questions after I'll stick around and happy to talk about

[27:45] those. There we go. So we're not far away. uh Brockville, Ontario. We have

[27:50] about 140,000 square foot manufacturing facility um where we have about 100

[27:55] folks there that work um engineering and manufacturing water treatment systems.

[28:02] Um as I said, different types. Um most of our sewage treatment systems are

[28:06] built there right in this factory. We have four other factories in North

[28:09] America. Um so we've grown over the years. started in '92 and right here in

[28:13] Brockville, right at that location and uh we've expanded quite a bit over the

[28:17] years uh globally. Um we do quite a bit of work in Ontario um and as well

[28:22] throughout Canada. Um in the group uh in the

[28:26] Brockful Group, we have a number of engineers, multiple disciplines, and we

[28:30] have a whole bunch of um civil mechanical plumbers um electricians that

[28:35] are building this equipment.

[28:39] Uh we've been doing this for a while. Uh and as you can imagine over years

[28:43] companies acquire other companies in water which we've done. Um we've

[28:46] accumulated a lot of installations a little over 10,000 or 20,000 actually

[28:50] installations globally. Um and we have about over 100 installations uh in

[28:56] Canada with sewage treatment the one I'm going to talk about today and double

[29:00] that in the US. So the challenge or the problem um in

[29:06] Ontario specifically uh is we've had a surge in population uh we have all kinds

[29:12] of uh water infrastructure that's designed around centralized water

[29:16] treatment. And what that means is you have one water wastewater plant as Sonia

[29:20] alluded to. We have a in Kingston there's a wastewater plant and there's

[29:23] pipes that go out and they collect all the waste water and they bring it back

[29:26] to that plant and then it treats it and discharges it to um the Lake Ontario. Um

[29:33] so that's what we call a centralized uh infrastructure and our province is set

[29:38] up for that. Unfortunately, uh we're growing at a fast rate. Um and it's very

[29:43] expensive to expand and grow centralized infrastructure, which is why

[29:47] decentralized, as Sonia was saying, is or or communal, another way to say it,

[29:51] is is another tool in our toolbox for Ontario to help us um maintain growth

[29:56] and and build out the province. And the nice thing about being able to

[30:01] have decentralized in Ontario, we have lots of beautiful places to live. And it

[30:05] would be really nice to be able to live in a community like this and be able to

[30:09] grow and have affordable homes uh for for our future

[30:14] generations. Uh I mentioned we have a lot of installations. So these are our

[30:18] our sewage and um drinking some are drinking water system. Most of them are

[30:22] sewage. Um so we have uh over 40 um ECAs. It's an acronym that I'll I'll

[30:27] touch on real quickly, but it's called it stands for environmental compliance

[30:31] agreement, and that's uh regulated by the province. So, basically, it's a

[30:34] permit um to have one of these plants put on a site where you can treat the

[30:39] water and create a very uh clean reusable effluent that goes back into

[30:44] the environment. Um, and there's lots of rules and regulations around that and

[30:49] how those those uh those are permits are given out and uh how you can achieve to

[30:53] get one. Um, these systems can be owned by a community, by a municipal

[30:58] corporation, by a private developer, a condo corp. Um, so it it does vary on

[31:02] ownership. There's lots of options

[31:08] there. Getting where the mouse is. Oh, is it

[31:13] there? Who do I where do I shoot for this? It's There's a box right under the

[31:19] screen. Laser frozen.

[31:27] and force it

[31:31] forward. There we go. I throw this picture in just to give

[31:36] you a little idea of of flow. So, it's important to understand what we're

[31:39] talking about when we're talking about communal systems. So, these are not mega

[31:43] plants. These are not hundred million dollar wastewater treatment plants that

[31:46] are going to service the city of Kingston or or or Broville. Um the what

[31:52] this technology has been around for decades. Um actually the technology I'm

[31:56] going to talk about today has invented in 1960. Um became mainstream in

[32:00] municipal um municipal waste water uh throughout the '90s. And what Nutra

[32:06] decided is that there's a there's a need for um this technology in in smaller

[32:11] communities, smaller flows. So we cover um a range of flow of anywhere from as

[32:16] small as 10 homes up to 10,000 homes. So that's sort of the range of technology,

[32:21] the range of flow that we work within. So we've taken an existing technology

[32:25] that's been proven that's been is in operation today globally. Um it's

[32:30] accepted by regulators globally and I'll get into the reasons why. Um and and

[32:36] basically we've just scaled it down and put it in a smaller footprint and being

[32:39] made these to be built in a factory so that we can ship them out and modularly

[32:43] put them together so that they can scale up with the developments as communities

[32:48] grow over time. Instead of going in and building $100 million plant, you can put

[32:52] in a small section of a plant and then add sections as years go by to grow that

[32:57] as the community grows and houses are getting built.

[33:03] Working out So this is a picture of a 500 home um

[33:08] MBR um wastewater treatment plant and it's located in um London near London,

[33:13] Ontario. So there's a town called a township called South Hole Township and

[33:18] uh there's a brand new development of 500 ohms. Um, this system is sits down

[33:22] in a valley and uh it's it's got a footprint of about 40 feet by 60 feet um

[33:28] with plus the it's got the little generator off to the side and then

[33:32] there's a there's a creek but you can't see it off to the right of the screen

[33:36] and that creek works its way do it works it way to Dodge Creek and then it goes

[33:41] out to Lake Erie. So what happens is the 500 homes

[33:46] have a traditional collection system. You flush the toilet, it goes through a

[33:49] drain and it comes into the system into a tank. And from there, we take that

[33:53] that waste water, that sewage, and we treat it and we turn it to reusable

[33:58] clean water that literally looks like that. And we discharge it back into the

[34:03] environment into the waterways. And it's actually cleaner than the

[34:07] waterways. The advantages of these package systems being built, as I said,

[34:12] is that they're scalable. It goes together in a few weeks because it's

[34:16] built in a factory and they are very cost- effective when you compare them to

[34:21] septic and well not well because this is sewage but septic systems. Um now you

[34:28] might ask what makes these systems robust? What you know what what's going

[34:32] to what's going to happen if if if something breaks or it uh you know the

[34:36] discharge sewage to my precious waterways. Well, that is something

[34:40] that's not acceptable. and and the way that that is insured is is is multiple

[34:45] levels. So um at the very top we have the min the province we have the

[34:49] ministry of environment so the the MECP um so that's the ministry of

[34:53] conservation and parks and they um issue something called environmental

[34:58] compliance approvals for these facilities. Every single facility in

[35:01] Ontario has its own environmental compliance approval and one can't be

[35:05] installed without getting that permit. It takes over a year to get the permit.

[35:09] And what the permit does, it dictates um what the water is going to be, what what

[35:14] flow rates of water. So, how many homes? What's you know, are we talking 10

[35:17] homes? Are we talking 500 homes? Um what do what are you using? What technology

[35:21] are using to treat the water? Because there's I'm talking about one technology

[35:25] and I'm actually talking about the best available technology on the market. Not

[35:29] not because it's newer. Of course, it is, but it's it's it's a MBR is not

[35:33] newer's technology. This is a a generic technology. It's been around for decades

[35:38] as I said, but we've adopted it and we've we've put it in a smaller form

[35:43] factor. But if you ask any regulator globally, I don't care if you go to the

[35:47] US to California, if you come to Ontario or if you go to Singapore, they will

[35:51] tell you MBR is the best available technology for treating sewage. Period.

[35:56] And the reason it's the best is its effluent quality. Sorry, I wasn't

[36:00] supposed to say that word. It's the output of our system. And as an

[36:05] engineer, I always say uh um technical words that they don't mean, but

[36:09] basically the output being the water that we're treating as clean water that

[36:13] we're putting back in the environment and and that's what the e the ECA

[36:17] determines of what that quality of water has to be, where it's going to go, um

[36:22] whether it has a generator, lots of details that are in that even goes to

[36:26] the level of how it's operated. meaning that if um a company like Cleford or if

[36:30] the municipal corporation is operating the plant, what they need to do on a

[36:34] weekly basis, what reports they need to do on a weekly basis, what tests they

[36:38] need to take and when they and their annual reports have to go back and this

[36:41] is all monitored at the provincial level and then then and then Clearford or the

[36:47] operating company, the municipal corporation will have an operator of

[36:50] record assigned to this facility. So they are legally bound and they're these

[36:55] are these are professionals that are trained um and they are the operators of

[36:59] record and they're the ones their names are on the ticket and they're the ones

[37:02] that are responsible for ensuring all the reporting and everything that goes

[37:05] in that's asked for by that ECA. So that's what these that's the

[37:10] approval side of things. I I'll talk about all the protection on the

[37:13] equipment side shortly but let's get into the technology. So what is MBR

[37:18] membrane bioreactor? So the acronym is a bit backwards from a process standpoint.

[37:23] The membrane is the last part of the process, but the bio actors

[37:28] first. So there's three main advantages of MBR. Sorry, my slides aren't

[37:32] appearing correctly, but no, not you. Keep going. Okay. Um, the first is

[37:37] effluent quality. Now, we picked uh MBR in the early 2000s because we knew it

[37:41] was best available technology. Then regulations didn't require it. We could

[37:45] have used a lagoon. You could have used an oxidation dish. You could have used a

[37:48] extended irration plant. dynamic naming of things that if you're not into waste

[37:51] water, you might not know what that is, but these are all subpar technologies of

[37:56] what MBR is. So, MBR giving you the highest output. We said we're going to

[38:00] go with that. Um, as engineers, we knew we could make it better. Um, because at

[38:05] the time, you know, they they used more energy. They had um, you know, more

[38:10] complexities to them. But as we grew over the 20 years, and we did work in

[38:15] the Arctic, we do work in the north in in Baffan Island. We do work with uh

[38:20] first nations communities. We do work um throughout the globe in Africa. Um we

[38:25] were able to you know refine that process and improve the technology so

[38:29] that um you you can maintain and get rid of all those disadvantages that MBR had

[38:34] back then um which are not valid today. They have a small footprint um and

[38:40] they're scalable. So that was the key. So being able to scale these up as

[38:43] housing developments go and align capital costs the cop cost of that plant

[38:48] so that it doesn't burden the new homes that are being built today and then when

[38:52] you do build more homes later that that cost to build those new homes is still

[38:57] uh align with that new new phasing of the next part of the

[39:02] development. The process is very simple. Um we we start with um the first thing

[39:08] you do when you flush a toilet all your toiletries go down. Um it goes into a

[39:13] tank and then sometimes it goes into something called a screening process. So

[39:17] what we'll do is we use a mechanical screen and we remove all the toiletries,

[39:22] all the inorganics, things that aren't going to break down. Shoes, believe it

[39:25] or not, uh t-shirts, we get it all. Um but we remove all those first and then

[39:30] you're left with sewage, uh water. So it's, you know, as you would expect. Um,

[39:36] then that goes in that equalization tank and that goes up and down with the flows

[39:39] of the day. So as people in the morning using lots of water, having showers,

[39:42] making breakfast, um, that tank is designed to fill um, and not overfill

[39:47] for those peak times. So we design that based on the flow because we know that

[39:50] before we built the plant. The next stage is we move that water to a

[39:54] biological reactor. That tank always stays full. It takes about 8 to 12 hours

[39:59] for the drop of water to move from the entire process from the front end all

[40:02] the way to the back end. And part of that is because this is mother nature

[40:06] doing her part as the way they break down the sewage. So in the biological

[40:10] reactor, we use bubbles. Um when you use small bubbles, we can put oxygen in the

[40:15] water. Um and bugs in the water, they're naturally in our stomach. They're in the

[40:19] sewage. They are there. Um they activate and become active when there's um

[40:23] activity. So the the bubbles put oxygen in. If we have two parts per million,

[40:28] that's just a measurement of how much oxygen that you can measure that's in

[40:30] the water. They're very happy. They also like warm temperatures. Anything above

[40:35] 12 degrees Celsius. Um, warmer the better, just like us. Um, they also like

[40:40] a balanced pH, so it can't be too acidic. So, we control those three main

[40:44] parameters in this biological reactor. And while the bugs are happy and active,

[40:48] they're eating and they're breaking down that sewage. And we get that what we

[40:52] call a mixed liquor. But for, you know, a better way to say it, I always say it

[40:57] looks like a dark chocolate milk, like protein chocolate milk kind of stuff you

[41:00] can get. My son's a runner, so that's what he drinks. But it doesn't taste

[41:04] like that, but it looks like that. So, what we do then is we move it

[41:11] from that tank to the smaller tank that's got these guys in it. And this is

[41:15] where the magic happens. So, hand them out while you do. Oh, that'd be great.

[41:19] Yeah, sure.

[41:23] So, I'm going to pretend I have one in my hand. But, no, no, I don't need one.

[41:27] No, I got a pen. We're good. So, when you look at this, it's

[41:31] it's a f. It's called a hollow fiber. And think of it as a straw. And I think

[41:36] those are the clean ones, so you should be okay. Um, I'm just kidding. They are

[41:40] the clean. They're actually from that one. Um, but it's a it's a straw and

[41:44] it's hollow inside as you would expect a straw to be. And it works exactly the

[41:47] same as a straw. Couple small differences. Instead of uh when you put

[41:51] a vacuum a vacuum like when you suck on a straw, you pull liquid through the

[41:55] bottom of the straw and up through the hollow of it. Um what we do is these

[41:59] these membranes are plugged on the bottom and then they're all connected

[42:03] together at the top and then the wall of the straw has very very tin tiny holes

[42:08] in it. 04 micron holes. If you see that blue arrow at the bottom right corner,

[42:13] it's pointing to a dot. It's not exactly representative, but it gives you an idea

[42:18] of how small that hole is compared to bacteras, viruses, microplastics, some

[42:24] pharmaceuticals, um carbon, uh you know, combustible particles, all kinds of

[42:29] stuff that we don't want to have in our waterways. So, in order for a drop of

[42:34] water to get past this membrane, it has to go through that tiny hole into the

[42:39] hollow of the straw as it's being sucked out and then out through to this the

[42:44] river or the stream that it's going to. With that, you are left with uh an a

[42:51] very clean output that is reusable to the extent that you could actually take

[42:57] it to the next level of of polishing it. This is what it looks like. That's the

[43:02] dark chocolate milk on the left side. Those are all the measurements

[43:06] that you could measure wastewater things like biological oxygen demand or total

[43:11] suspended solids and total ammonia nitrog nitrogen or total uh total

[43:16] nitrogen total phosphorus. Phosphorus you might have heard is is not one that

[43:19] we want in our waterways. So this system is a this does this membrane is able to

[43:24] reject all

[43:28] that. Oops. uh to the point that we went to to a

[43:33] toilet demonstration at the plant. So on the top picture you can see on the top

[43:39] right picture there's a picture of a small package plant there. That's an MBR

[43:43] that's got this this membrane in it. Um we took all the sewage. You've seen the

[43:47] picture of our plant. We have about 100 folks there. They were using the

[43:50] toilets. I contributed to this and they put it into this plant. We treated it.

[43:56] We put it through something called a reverse osmosis. You might have one

[43:58] under your under your kitchen sink. Um, we pol, that's what I was saying when I

[44:02] say polish, that's what I mean. We just polish it. And then we had our board of

[44:05] directors drink it. And I know they are still all

[44:10] good. Um, so from a technology standpoint, um, it exists to take water,

[44:17] waste water, sewage, and turn it into um, reusable clean water. Now, obviously

[44:22] drinking it, unless you're on a space station, we wouldn't go to that level,

[44:25] but um, you can The systems are small. They are very

[44:30] compact. Um they're scalable as I said. And this is what one looks like on the

[44:34] inside. So the top picture where the four is between those two, that's where

[44:38] the membrane is sitting. So it's sitting in a couple stainless steel tanks. And

[44:42] then there's a tank in the ground, that equalization tank I showed you up, but

[44:46] that's where that up and down everybody's using lots of water in the

[44:48] mornings. The middle tank, that's where the bugs are, the chocolate milk, the

[44:51] mix liquor, that that's where all the magic happens from mother nature. And

[44:54] then a question you usually get asked, um, and I'll I'll probably head it off

[44:58] here if someone was going to ask it, but what happens when all the stuff that

[45:01] that you know, you pulled the clean water out, but you left all the other

[45:04] stuff behind? Well, that's what we call sludge. So, we got to move that out of

[45:08] the system. So, the what happens is the bugs die. There's also the microplastics

[45:13] and all the nasty stuff we don't want in our waterway. We move that to a small

[45:18] tank in Bcorn number six. This is the sludge holding tank. And then what we do

[45:22] is we decant that. Um we basically just dewater. We take the decanted water, we

[45:26] put it back into the front end of the system and we thicken that up and

[45:29] eventually becomes this, you know, thicker sludge. And then what we do uh

[45:35] is we put it through a digesting process that allows it to become inert and then

[45:40] it can be used as fertilizer or go to a municipal plant. So that gets hauled

[45:44] away. So really the only output of this plant is clean water and the rest of it

[45:49] gets hauled away to either um landfill for f or sorry fertilizer for u for

[45:56] farms and other applications can be right to a wastewater plant like a

[46:00] municipality but it only has to be hauled away once every 30 days

[46:05] roughly. Um Quinny West we have two 500 home plants there owned and operated by

[46:11] um the municipality of Quinny West. This is a picture of the of the stone crest

[46:16] uh system. So you can see those stainless steel tanks on the right side.

[46:20] That's the one that has the membranes in it. Um the downward picture in the

[46:23] middle is, you know, just the plant. It's in a traditional a butler building.

[46:27] And then there's some tanks in the ground on the one side. And then you see

[46:29] a couple pictures below. Those are just equipment on skids that we put inside

[46:33] the building. Um same concept, same idea, but essentially the developer came

[46:37] in said, "We want to build 500 homes." Quinny West said, "We don't have the

[46:40] capacity. We don't have the you couldn't even run the price. It cost you $20

[46:43] million to run the pipe. We put this plan in for a fraction of that and the

[46:48] developer bought it and gave it over to the municipality. The municipality now

[46:53] runs it as a utility. They have now 500 homes to collect taxes from and they

[46:57] also have a wastewater plant that's been running for, you know, 7

[47:02] years. Same same idea. This one's in actually St. Thomas. Um it's a Amazon

[47:06] warehouse. So Amazon's got about 1,500 people working in this warehouse. same

[47:12] situation. They didn't have servicing. So, we were able to be able to put down

[47:15] a system that was able to service um service the plant and it handles all the

[47:20] different peaks and variations cuz you imagine Christmas time there's a lot

[47:22] more workers. Um this one's uh in Lake Msoka. So, that is actually Lake Mscoia

[47:28] and we're discharging into it. Um the water that's coming out of this plant,

[47:32] as I said, is cleaner than Lake Msoka.

[47:37] Um this one's just a uh it's in Quinty area as well or Consequ I guess. Um so

[47:43] it's a it's a RV or um mobile home park and uh it's been in operation for a

[47:50] number of years. I think

[47:54] 2015. Oh, there we go. So process-wise, I mean, not process,

[48:00] but just from, you know, a system, having all the permitting in place,

[48:04] having a system designed and built and set up on on on the on the facility and

[48:09] then, you know, fabricating in in startup um is a very short process

[48:13] compared to what a traditional build would be if you were building something

[48:16] that was a mega plant. Um all within a year or two at the most. And then

[48:22] ongoing operations. So, um, these systems are designed for 35, 40 year

[48:26] life. So, they are all stainless steel. There's nothing magical in these

[48:30] systems. The the the most unusual part is is is is the membrane itself. Um, all

[48:36] the pumps, there's there's small little pumps. There's everything that you go in

[48:40] there. You could use your phone and Google it and find that part and order

[48:46] it yourself. Um, there's nothing magical inside these boxes. Um, we've just

[48:50] gotten really good at designing and packaging them up so that they operate

[48:53] and last a long long time and operation companies like Clearford and and um as

[48:57] as utility corps come online um we'll be able to operate them very easily. They

[49:02] have telemetry in them. They're easy to um get information and

[49:07] data. I think that's all I have. Great. Thank you, Brad. Uh we just got a few

[49:12] more slides here. I just want to talk again about from the land use planning

[49:16] and the community building perspective. I mean for us uh communal services

[49:20] really is an opportunity to do sustainable rural community building uh

[49:25] particularly for our villages and hamlets because we know that in order to

[49:29] you can't even do any infill or any additional residential units on the

[49:33] small lots in the villages because of the existing servicing. Um and so there

[49:37] is opportunity uh for for our villages. One the first example I'll reference

[49:43] here is the uh housing master plan that was done for Verona. So just a little

[49:47] ways down the road. Um this is being led by South Ronak Township themselves. Uh

[49:52] it is a mix of town houses and apartment buildings and they are looking at having

[49:57] anywhere from 70 to 100 units. Uh the the final number will depend on the

[50:03] design and the servicing capacity that they um that they have to figure out

[50:07] through the environmental approval process and they are in the final stages

[50:11] of that process. Um, the other example I was going to share is probably very

[50:15] familiar to people in the room. It's the Sharper Lake school site which is

[50:19] basically next door here. So, it's the it's a twoacre site right here in the

[50:22] heart of the village. Um, I know the township had purchased it with the

[50:26] intent of doing seniors housing and having 8 to 10 units using the existing

[50:31] well and septic. Um, you know, as the county was working on the communal

[50:35] services study, we said, you know what, what if we use communal services? So, we

[50:39] worked with the township and got funding from the Federation of Canadian

[50:43] Municipalities to do what's called a feasibility study. And some of you may

[50:46] have been, you know, present for that presentation. But the that study

[50:51] determined that using communal services, you could have anywhere from 45 to 50

[50:56] apartments uh units on that site. Uh what is shown here? At the time, we we

[51:02] asked the the consultant, can you give us just some rough conceptual ideas of

[51:06] what that could look like? and they had two options. One uh there was one larger

[51:10] uh three-story building and this option was the two uh three-story buildings. I

[51:15] will say right now no decisions have been made about Sharet Lake. Uh there's

[51:19] still technical work that needs to be done, decisions to be made uh by

[51:22] council, but this is an opportunity uh for for Charlotte Lake to be able to

[51:27] utilize communal services to the benefit of the community in the future.

[51:33] Uh so in terms of our official plan policies, like I mentioned, the official

[51:37] plan that a municipality has is basically your blueprint for how you're

[51:41] going to grow. At the county level, we amended our official plan to talk about

[51:46] communal services and to provide direction to the townships. So the first

[51:49] thing that we had said is any new residential subdivisions. So actual

[51:54] neighborhoods uh that are going to be in hamlets and villages need to be on

[51:57] communal services wherever feasible to be able to achieve a compatible density

[52:02] and to fit in with the villages. Um townships can consider using communal

[52:07] services to service existing villages and hamlets including uh any doing any

[52:11] kind of main street improvements. And we also want it to be the primary servicing

[52:16] method for any new large-scale commercial and or industrial

[52:19] developments as well as any business parks. So that's another development

[52:23] opportunity that we haven't seen much of is where you have a business park and a

[52:26] collection of businesses. Um because again everybody has different servicing

[52:30] needs. Being able to do it through communal services offers up an

[52:33] opportunity to do some different uh business type developments than what

[52:36] we've had in the past as well. So, in terms of the township official

[52:42] plan and the conversation we want to start in the community, um there are a

[52:45] number of things that we have to address and these are the kinds of things that

[52:48] we want people to start thinking about in terms of how you want to use this,

[52:52] right? So, are you going to use these for your hamlets and villages? Are are

[52:56] is it something you would want in all of your hamlets or maybe just some of them?

[53:00] If so, which ones and and why? um how how would you use communal services to

[53:05] create new forms of housings and what kind of scale and density and how big

[53:10] and what forms of housing uh you know apartments if so how big of an apartment

[53:16] so there there's all that scale but how how how this new housing could fit into

[53:20] the existing

[53:24] community would you want to be able to use communal services in a rural area

[53:29] for a a rural subdivision Um, and if so, again, what would you want it to look

[53:34] like? Um, one of the things that, you know, we want to be prepared for is if

[53:38] somebody walks in the door one day and says, "Well, I have 100 acres. I'd like

[53:41] to build 300 homes and then that's bigger than most of your villages and

[53:46] hamlets. Is that something the township would be willing to entertain? And if

[53:50] so, what what would need to be done by that developer? Would you want to see it

[53:53] used for waterfront developments? If so, in what cases? On all lakes potentially,

[53:59] or only on some lakes? or are some legs not okay? So, there's that conversation

[54:02] to have about is it of a benefit, you know, rather to have some areas perhaps

[54:08] rather than having them densely populated with everybody having their

[54:11] own septic, is there an environmental benefit to having everybody on a

[54:14] communal system and the system is set quite a ways away from the lake. And

[54:18] then the other conversation too to have is is what would somebody have to do?

[54:23] What are the plans and studies and all of the criteria and approval systems

[54:27] that they would be required to do to demonstrate that communal services are

[54:30] appropriate for what they're proposing and that they have to prove that there's

[54:34] going to be no negative impact environmentally and to and to the

[54:40] community. So that is the last slide that is the formal presentation. Uh some

[54:45] of the slides I apologize the resolution was the text was showing up. It's still

[54:49] showing up a little bit strange here, but we are going to put uh a PDF of all

[54:53] of these slides uh on the website that you see there, the engage front uh site.

[54:59] If you signed up, I'll send out an email when everything's ready in terms of the

[55:03] presentation slides and and the YouTube link and everything. But at this point,

[55:08] if if there are are questions, um actually, I have a question that I'm

[55:12] going to ask Brad first if I can because I think if I don't, somebody else is

[55:16] going to ask it. and that is what if something happens and the system fails

[55:23] what happens to the lakes and and all the private wells that might be around

[55:27] it like what what's the risk so as I said the um the membrane is that

[55:33] physical barrier between the sewage and the in the environment and and one of

[55:38] the reasons why it's it's seen by regulators which are you know

[55:42] environmental um protection regulators uh as best available technology is it it

[55:47] doesn't allow it to go anywhere but through that. There is no bypass valve.

[55:51] Large municipalities, they get high rain events. Guess what happens? They got a

[55:55] valve. They have to write a letter and big report, but it goes out to the Lake

[55:58] Ontario as you know a version of raw sewage. That can't happen with these. It

[56:03] has to go through the membrane. There is no short circuit. Um your backup backup

[56:07] plan. So before we get to the backup backup plan, from a design and

[56:11] engineering standpoint, there's redundant pumps. So there's two pumps

[56:14] for every pump. So if one pump the automatically the other one comes on and

[56:18] there's a shelf spare by the way everything's died in telemetry text

[56:22] messages uh on alarm all come out to the operator of record as I said who is

[56:26] responsible and they have a crew of people that tend to these plants. Um and

[56:32] if all of that fails and the generator stopped or something unfortunate

[56:37] happened um the the plant would not produce output and the result would have

[56:44] to be hauling. So, a truck would need to come in and haul the sewage away. Um,

[56:47] that's the only option.

[56:52] So, to like I said, we're happy if people have questions. Um, again, if

[56:56] you're online, you can use the raise hand function uh through Zoom. And if

[57:00] you're watching, excuse me, on Zoom on your phone, it's I believe it's star 9

[57:04] in order to raise your hand. And then also, if there's anybody here, if you're

[57:07] able to, it would be great if you could come up and use uh the microphone. Um,

[57:11] if you don't want to or unable to, um, if you want to yell at your question, I

[57:15] can at least hopefully rephrase it or or like repeat it properly so that people

[57:19] can hear it online. Any question? Yeah.

[57:24] Okay. Just press the button till the light turns green.

[57:30] I'm Ken Waller. I'm here on behalf of the Sharpet Lake Property Owners

[57:35] Association who have a great desire to see the lake remain as good as it

[57:41] possibly can. Uh is this a panacea for development that it appears to be and

[57:47] what is the response of the province to to the installation? Are they I mean

[57:54] what you present seems to be the best of any world possible and if someone's

[57:59] willing to put it in is that a blanket acceptance by the province.

[58:04] So I almost said through you madam mayor. Um I'll I'll take a stab at that

[58:09] and then Brad or Joe feel free to to step in. So right now um the one we we

[58:15] feel one of the challenges that we we have solved is is through the use of the

[58:19] public utility. Our next challenge is actually at the provincial level itself

[58:24] with its environmental approvals. So right now the environmental approvals

[58:29] process for a sewage treatment plant if it's publicly owned is the same no

[58:35] matter if you're treating 30 homes or 300,000 homes. And it's a process that

[58:41] takes four to five years and close to half a million dollars. And so the

[58:46] problem is most developers aren't going to tie up that much money in that

[58:51] lengthy of a process to do that. So we are we are working with the province to

[58:57] try and see if this is something that they would consider. It's not that we

[59:00] want to bypass the environmental approvals process, but we feel the

[59:04] approvals process needs to like needs to be changed to address the scale of what

[59:09] is actually being proposed. So yeah, I don't know if there's

[59:13] anything Joe if you want to add. It's a good that's a very good question, Ken,

[59:18] because I think Brad has shown how good the technology

[59:23] is and there's been two reasons why I mean I've been doing working on this for

[59:29] almost a decade and I've learned there's two reasons why these aren't more

[59:33] prevalent in Ontario. So Sonia mentioned the thing called the municipal

[59:37] responsibility agreement which is essentially a contract between a

[59:41] municipality and a developer that if the system fails and and I think Brad has

[59:46] shown tonight the chance of a failure is not very high with these systems that or

[59:52] the developer bankrupts or walks away that you the the rules are correct

[59:57] because the province is saying we don't want the the environment to be damaged

[1:00:01] or people have health risks. So, you've got to take the system

[1:00:05] over. But for places like central Front, in fact, all four townships in Frontac

[1:00:10] County, there's not enough um money in the bank to let them sign a contract

[1:00:17] that says you don't have to give us any money. As Sonia says, you have the

[1:00:20] developers have to double down and that is a real burden with the utility that

[1:00:24] Fontac has set up and this is the first jurisdiction in Ontario that has this

[1:00:30] utility for these systems. It will take the system over. The developer will pay

[1:00:36] to build the system. The utility will monitor the installation, make sure it's

[1:00:40] built the right way, and Brad can talk to you more importantly about why it

[1:00:44] needs to be built right right out of the gate. And then we manage it, but the

[1:00:49] developer doesn't have to worry about fixing it or anything. It's the utility

[1:00:53] will take that over. So, the contract is not necessary anymore. That's a big step

[1:00:58] forward. The other part is the environmental approvals that Sonia has

[1:01:02] just spoken about. So the utility right now and the president of the utility

[1:01:08] sitting right here beside me by the way um is working on best practices. So for

[1:01:15] example, one of the things they're looking at

[1:01:18] is is there two or three or four of these systems sort of like new terra

[1:01:23] that we want to stamp that we like and those three or four systems will were

[1:01:28] what are what we want to see built in front. If a developer comes in and he

[1:01:32] wants to do something different, he's going to have to prove really prove it's

[1:01:35] going to work. But I think it'll the developers will like that. They'll know

[1:01:38] that oh if I use this you're going to support it. So that's good. and also

[1:01:43] they're going to be um making sure that they're well operated. So, it's we're

[1:01:48] doing that right now. But those two big obstacles are the reasons why there's

[1:01:53] not many of these systems in Ontario. And if we get the environmental

[1:01:56] approvals streamlined, you know, recognizing in

[1:02:00] Frontac, we're never going to have a 500 unit subdivision here. Um and and as as

[1:02:06] Sonia said, the whole reason we did this was about community building. So in the

[1:02:09] Sharet Lake case for example, the feasibility study said this type of

[1:02:14] technology is is is good for all the reasons that Brad has laid out. But not

[1:02:19] only that, council can have a conversation with the village to say

[1:02:23] maybe it's not just the school site we want to service. We could service other

[1:02:26] properties like this building here tonight um to help make sure that this

[1:02:31] is all going to work well in the next hundred years. So the technology is a

[1:02:35] non-starter. It's but it's interesting. I've learned that the planning world

[1:02:39] hasn't learned much about this. It's only since Frontac has started this that

[1:02:42] the ears have picked up on this and and it is our future in Frontac. I think

[1:02:49] yes, it it in the past there was an attempt to do a group housing with a

[1:02:55] common setup just south of the bridge and it

[1:03:00] it the developer gave up and discussed after the route he had to follow. This

[1:03:07] system seems to be a drop-in plug-in system that is already approved. The

[1:03:14] environmental uh monitoring on the input stage leading

[1:03:19] up to it and the output stage exiting it seem to be the areas that would only

[1:03:23] have to be covered plus or minus the the interaction between them. Is that a fair

[1:03:30] assessment? I'll just I'll use my analogy my truck

[1:03:34] analogy and then do that if you did. So, and Brad will confirm this. MECP,

[1:03:39] Ministry of the Environment, knows exactly what Nutra is and what they

[1:03:42] build and the quality of the build. And I'll let you talk about that in a

[1:03:45] second. What we've been saying to the province is, look, we can't make

[1:03:50] developers, private sector developers come in here to build a 100 homes, put

[1:03:53] them through a 5-year environmental approval process, and spend more than a

[1:03:56] half a million dollars where they could invest in the stock market. They could

[1:04:00] invest in other things other than than community building. So, you've got to

[1:04:03] speed the process up. And the analogy we use is look for example with new terra

[1:04:08] you know exactly how this how it works. Just like General Motors designing a new

[1:04:14] truck and they take that design to Transport Canada and Transport Canada

[1:04:19] approves the gas efficiency um the the crash tests and everything

[1:04:24] and they stamp that truck's good to go and then they go back to Ashawa and roll

[1:04:28] thousands of them off the plant line. Our argument is if you know that in

[1:04:32] front we're only going to use two or three of these systems and you you know

[1:04:36] exactly how they work, then why are you going to make us go through the same

[1:04:39] thing over and over again? And I'm going to turn it over to you, Brad. Sure.

[1:04:43] Yeah, I like that analogy, but um you don't want to crash your truck before

[1:04:46] you get it, but um the the reality is the process with the Ministry of

[1:04:52] Environment has created is a good one and and it's robust, but it's designed

[1:04:56] for centralized wastewater treatment. So, it's designed for the mega plants.

[1:05:01] You're putting in a $100 million plant. You definitely need a 5-year process to

[1:05:04] evaluate all the parts and pieces. And think about the flow. You're talking

[1:05:08] about um millions of gallons of water per day. Um tens of millions. So, um

[1:05:16] what when our conversations with the Ministry of Environment is they know

[1:05:20] this technology, they know exactly what it can do. um you know, we we've we've

[1:05:24] proven beyond what they know it can do and and and they've accepted some of our

[1:05:28] piloting data. Um but the reality is um there's only so many sensitive receivers

[1:05:34] in so if you're familiar with the different types of receivers, a policy 2

[1:05:38] receiver in Ontario is probably one of the most strict receivers from a

[1:05:41] phosphorus standpoint. It's 03 parts per million or milligrams per liter. That is

[1:05:46] very strict. This this technology can exceed that. Um so and they know that.

[1:05:51] So I if what we're really looking from the Ministry of Environment isn't we

[1:05:54] don't want to be relaxed. We want them to tighten. Give us the worst case. Give

[1:05:58] us the policy to receiver and we'll meet that effluent every day. Um so that's

[1:06:03] really what we're pushing for. We're not looking to relax it. Now there's other

[1:06:06] technologies out there that can't hit this techn this level of of of effluent.

[1:06:11] And those are the technologies that the ministry wants to evaluate and say,

[1:06:14] "Well, wait a minute. Where are you putting this water? Let's go into a

[1:06:16] wetlands." Okay. And phosphorus could probably be maybe 1 milligram per liter.

[1:06:20] not 03. So those are the considerations that the ministry is doing because they

[1:06:26] treat every site differently which I think is okay. We just need to you know

[1:06:30] that that first um process just needs to be a bit more streamlined for the size

[1:06:35] of plant that we're dealing with. Question is there a minimum number of

[1:06:42] units below which this 5-year process is not required?

[1:06:48] So under the building code um 10,000 lers which is 10 cubic meters per day um

[1:06:55] that is the where you can use a septic system or communal septic system or um

[1:07:01] there's other there are some technologies that are are approved under

[1:07:04] the building code. So um we don't do anything under the building code that

[1:07:08] flow is too low for what we offer. We do more of the communal side. So anything

[1:07:12] above 10,000 L per day or 10 cubic meters per day which is the same thing.

[1:07:18] Yeah, generally I just just to add to that. So that's that's about five homes.

[1:07:22] Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that's about five homes, right? So I think you were saying

[1:07:25] you could do it for as little these communal for as little as 10. Now is 10

[1:07:30] financially viable for a developer who's looking at building a bunch of homes.

[1:07:34] Maybe, maybe not. But I think um like like Joe said, we're not going to see

[1:07:38] somebody move roll in here and want to build 500 homes in one place. That's

[1:07:41] just not how we're growing, right? But a developer who wants to build five

[1:07:46] homes, is it economical for him to produce a system like this without going

[1:07:51] through the process five years? Uh, no. So these systems are not um approved

[1:07:56] under the building code. We there just they're they're not they're designed for

[1:07:59] communal treatment. Yeah,

[1:08:05] I think I saw a question in the second row. Yeah, just a simple question.

[1:08:11] So the question was what is the track record for these systems?

[1:08:17] Um track record as far as um output goes um problems. Oh I mean these are

[1:08:24] machines so obviously there's there's um operation and maintenance requirements

[1:08:28] that have to happen. Um there is a operation plan operation maintenance

[1:08:32] plan. Um replacement parts these are good for about 7 to 10 years. So you

[1:08:37] have to acrue uh you know you're you also have to remember these systems are

[1:08:41] are utilities. So they're generating revenue from the homeowners basically

[1:08:45] for using water when they lived in the city. You pay you pay water bill. Um so

[1:08:48] that water or that money that's being accured is is set aside some of it set

[1:08:52] aside for replacement parts. Pumps will wear out over time. You have to replace

[1:08:56] the seals in the pumps every 3 years. Um and there's a whole uh regimented uh

[1:09:02] onm. So to answer your question, what is a failure rate? It's it's uh it's it's

[1:09:08] dependent on the site. So there they're definitely I would never there's always

[1:09:11] fail points and and the whole purpose of having these systems with the

[1:09:16] redundancies and having all of the um the backups um is to prevent and

[1:09:21] mitigate any of those issues. Um but you will have things break. So

[1:09:27] so the other benefit we have in Frac is the utility. So when I started this

[1:09:31] project and the planning planners in the area were starting to understand what we

[1:09:36] were doing, I got a phone call from one of my colleagues said, "I got one of

[1:09:39] these in my community that failed." So I was puzzled by that, but then I got more

[1:09:45] information about it. And the reason it failed and and Brad, you can add on to

[1:09:51] this is because it wasn't being operated the right way. It was it was a a

[1:09:57] campground and they weren't maintaining it. they weren't following those rules

[1:10:00] that you have about maintaining it. But the fact that the utility here will be

[1:10:05] owning these systems and maintaining them is going to even reduce that risk

[1:10:09] even more. I don't know if you want to add anything. No, that's exactly right.

[1:10:13] And and I'd say the regulations around um the reporting have gotten more strict

[1:10:20] over the years. Um so, you know, I don't know how old that project was. It was

[1:10:23] almost 20 years ago or 15 years ago. But that those those um those situations are

[1:10:28] fairly rare now. Most, you know, don't get me wrong, things happen, things

[1:10:33] break, power goes out, we have ice storms. Um um so there's emergency plans

[1:10:37] that get activated um and then, you know, the system gets gets rectified and

[1:10:42] and back up and running. But but it's about operation and maintenance. And

[1:10:46] when you have a utility company or you have an operator of record that is

[1:10:50] maintaining it and following the the uh recommendations by the manufacturer,

[1:10:54] these systems run great. Um, and there's many examples. There's 40 in Ontario

[1:10:59] that are are good examples of that.

[1:11:03] So, the one thing that I was going to mention because I I've gotten questions

[1:11:06] about it before, but is in terms of the cost and who is paying for what, and I

[1:11:11] think Joe had alluded to this um that when it comes to somebody building

[1:11:15] something new, say somebody wants to build a subdivision, the developer is

[1:11:20] responsible for paying all the costs. So, the township is not paying for the

[1:11:24] pipes in the system. The developer is responsible for paying all the costs of

[1:11:29] installing the system, of installing the pipes, hooking everything up, and it's

[1:11:33] overseen by the public utility. And then once they know the system is working

[1:11:38] properly, it's turned over to the utility, and then the people who buy the

[1:11:42] homes in that subdivision, uh, the utility will charge them a utility rate.

[1:11:47] So, so yes, you would get a monthly bill for water and sewer just like you would

[1:11:51] if you were living in Kingston or Napony. Um, but you also then don't have

[1:11:55] to worry about taking care of a well or shelling out $40,000 to replace your

[1:12:00] entire septic system because you don't have to worry about that anymore. And I

[1:12:03] know when Joe when you were doing this research, correct me if I'm wrong, but I

[1:12:06] think you know you you did ask some people about costs for communal services

[1:12:11] and it was about $150 a month for water and sewer, which

[1:12:16] some people if you have a wellness septic and you're not paying any bill

[1:12:18] right now other than say your water softener, that you know might seem like

[1:12:22] a lot, but like I said the you know if if you are on a septic system you should

[1:12:27] probably be putting $150 a month away anyways to start saving up for replacing

[1:12:32] that septic system because it's going to cost a lot when that comes around. So,

[1:12:36] so unless it's the township who wants to and and the community who decides they

[1:12:40] want to service existing uh properties and buildings, then yes,

[1:12:45] you're going to have to come to some kind of financial understanding as to

[1:12:48] how that's all going to come about. But when it's new development that's solely

[1:12:52] on this communal system, it's entirely on the developer to pay for everything

[1:12:55] to install it. And then like like Brad said, that monthly utility bill is to

[1:13:00] pay for the costs of the use and the treatment of everything, but also to

[1:13:04] start setting pieces money aside to replace all that infrastructure as it

[1:13:09] needs to be replaced during its lifetime. So that's what the utility

[1:13:12] will manage. And just to add to that, we do have some

[1:13:17] holding tanks in the village. One being the church just down the hill and our

[1:13:22] restaurant, the belong restaurant is on a holding tank. And that cost for the

[1:13:26] church, which is just a small tank, is like

[1:13:29] $350 and it gets pumped two or three times a year. So that's certainly a

[1:13:34] bigger cost than buying into the system at

[1:13:39] 150. Yes. at the back.

[1:14:04] what initial cost to the developer to takes on that responsibility because

[1:14:11] presumably that's a fairly low threshold and putting units there probably

[1:14:15] wouldn't um be cost effective. So some research about what that initial cost

[1:14:22] and then the cost effectiveness the developer might fall what range. Okay.

[1:14:27] Sorry, I'm going to have to stop you because that was a really long question.

[1:14:30] I now have to repeat it for the folks online. So, so you're asking about the

[1:14:37] costs as well as all the infrastructure.

[1:14:45] Okay. So, so sorry I'm about to repeat it. Then you let me know if it's right.

[1:14:48] So, you want to know if there have been cost estimates done, and you're

[1:14:51] specifically asking about the former Charlotte Lake school site to install

[1:14:56] all of that infrastructure and the system to be able to pull water from one

[1:15:00] side and to output it in the other side. I'm trying to remember what was in the

[1:15:05] feasibility. We we have not worked out all of those details. Those are parts of

[1:15:08] the technical studies that still need to be done for that site. And and I'll have

[1:15:12] to say we don't even know that if it's like I think the initial idea was take

[1:15:16] it from one side and output in the other side. That may not be the ultimate

[1:15:20] solution that comes up with. So there the environmental approvals process

[1:15:24] needed for that site is going to look at all the various options and and the

[1:15:28] costing as well. So that those details have not been done yet.

[1:15:33] No. Sally are Sally, can you use the microphone? Is that or do you want me to

[1:15:37] repeat it? Okay.

[1:15:54] So, so the the question was again in relation to the Charlotte Lake school

[1:15:58] site, what what is the minimum number of residential units that would be built to

[1:16:02] make it financially feasible for a developer? That's a good question. I

[1:16:06] think I mean I know it can run on as little as 10 but there's a lot of

[1:16:10] factors and costs that go into development. So I think again that's

[1:16:15] something that the financials we have the township needs to look at in terms

[1:16:18] of in terms of the cost. Did anybody else want to add to that answer?

[1:16:27] Yeah. Not not to the not to the development specifically but just more

[1:16:30] to the technology. Um the technology is designed that it can turn down its flow.

[1:16:35] So say, okay, so say the system was good for 30 homes, it can operate as low as

[1:16:40] about five or six homes.

[1:16:48] No, when you do the math based on five homes, so as you can imagine, as you get

[1:16:52] in more homes, the dollars per home go down.

[1:16:59] Ongoing presumably wouldn't be very feasible for the monthly rate, right?

[1:17:04] Smaller So the question was that if there were

[1:17:09] fewer uh homes that the so that it wouldn't be economically feasible on a

[1:17:14] ongoing monthly basis either and that is again I think something the utility is

[1:17:19] going to have to work out. I mean, um, for an ongoing rate, the essentially the

[1:17:24] way utilities normally work is you pay a certain amount per volume that you use

[1:17:31] and it and and then that's equal across wherever you are for the utility. I

[1:17:36] mean, if you're in Kingston, you don't pay a different rate than what you do

[1:17:40] from the east end to the west end, but you pay a different rate based on the

[1:17:43] volume that you use. So that is something that the utility is still

[1:17:47] working on. But but ideally, yes, if if they were doing it as as a pay per

[1:17:51] volume, you would want to spread it across. But I don't think that's our

[1:17:54] intent is our intent is for the utility to be able to set one rate regardless.

[1:17:58] But again, if if you're going to go to the extent of building this system, you

[1:18:04] most developers are going to need to build a certain threshold number of

[1:18:08] units in order to actually make the whole project financially viable to do.

[1:18:19] Yes, those details are all still being worked out. Got to get a developer

[1:18:22] first.

[1:18:46] I guess just uh Francis confirm. So if Charet Lake is developed or done like

[1:18:55] um it is only at this point for the Sharpet Lake the old public

[1:19:01] school site and a couple of buildings. It's not for the entire village of

[1:19:05] Sharpet Lake. Is that correct? My understanding would be it would be

[1:19:11] built for this um particular build, but anybody else who wanted to join in could

[1:19:18] do it. The township could hook up this building. The church could get rid of

[1:19:22] their holding tank and go on this system. So it would once we once it's

[1:19:28] built, you can add to it. Okay. So my understanding in though is there would

[1:19:32] not be tax there would no be no impact to a taxpayer that is not a resident of

[1:19:39] or not involved in it. So an individual in Ardan is not going to pay for the

[1:19:45] reconstruction in Chevrolet. Is that correct? the developer will pay for it

[1:19:50] and then the the um service corporation will take over

[1:19:55] the running of it and it's not on the municipal taxes nor is the liability on

[1:20:01] the municipality. It's on the corporation. Okay. So, I'll switch

[1:20:05] topics now. My question is reading a study that is account on

[1:20:11] the county website called the projections.

[1:20:15] Um when I read it I must say it brings tears to my eyes of the projections for

[1:20:21] central frontac. Um it's saying that there is no you know very little growth.

[1:20:26] It's going to be a declining population over the next 30

[1:20:31] years. My question is what has changed? So, you know, I I I love the idea of

[1:20:40] having growth because it will change our tax base and solve many

[1:20:45] problems, but it seems unusual to anticipate a lot

[1:20:50] of growth in a community that I'm going to say hopscotches. So, normally if I

[1:20:57] look at any other area that's growing, it starts at the hub and comes out

[1:21:02] through the spokes. you know, in GTA, it starts in Toronto, comes up to

[1:21:07] Steels Avenue, goes to Richmond Hill, goes to Aurora, New Market. In our case,

[1:21:14] what is it that we think is going to bring growth? You know, when when I see

[1:21:19] projections of apartment buildings, uh, town houses, but we're still 50 or 60

[1:21:26] miles from the employment center of of Kingston.

[1:21:32] I guess the question that I sit there in the audience and listen to is if we

[1:21:36] build it, will they come? Now, I'm thrilled to hear that we're not putting

[1:21:41] dollars out. There's no tax dollars for the developers, but have we had

[1:21:46] developers pounding on our door? Um, you know, I see Verona, that's not that far

[1:21:53] down the road. are developers pounding on the door um to do this or are we just

[1:22:01] kind of pie in the sky? I guess the question is has anybody looked for a

[1:22:07] place to rent in our community because there aren't any if there are there's 17

[1:22:12] $1,800 a month for one and two bedrooms. We have people who cannot find places to

[1:22:19] live. So yes, there's a need. We also have seniors who move out of our

[1:22:24] community and go to the city to an apartment because they don't have an

[1:22:28] option of an apartment here that's affordable. So I do believe if we build

[1:22:32] it, they will come. And the other thing is we're growing probably at 25 to 30

[1:22:38] houses a year that's going up. I go for drives on some of the roads out of the

[1:22:45] villages and I can't believe the houses that have gone up. So we are growing

[1:22:50] very steadily and probably at a good rate if we grow much faster. We've got

[1:22:55] lots of things we have to do to prepare for that. So I I I believe that we are

[1:23:01] growing. I see it as well Fran. But um again I go back to the study which I'm

[1:23:07] sure we paid what year was that? So I as January 20th 2020 so it's not that long

[1:23:14] ago. So, so we so that so the study you're referring to just for everybody

[1:23:17] else's uh reference is the population housing and employment projections uh

[1:23:22] that are done by the county uh for for the whole county. Um it's a standard the

[1:23:27] issue that um municipalities do these every 5 years and they do them generally

[1:23:32] once we know that all the most recent census data uh has been has been

[1:23:36] released. So, we actually just got approval from county council last year

[1:23:41] um to update that study because we're going to be updating our official plan.

[1:23:44] So, we will be doing an updated study probably end of this year into next

[1:23:49] year. Um and I'm pretty certain based on what I've seen that those numbers are

[1:23:53] going to change. We have seen growth especially since co the world the world

[1:23:58] has the world has changed in many ways but but certainly with co and people

[1:24:03] leaving urban areas to come and live in rural areas was a change that not

[1:24:07] predicted when that study was done. Okay. No because in the study it talks

[1:24:12] about 80% of the growth will be in south front neck with declining growth in

[1:24:17] central front neck. Um so back to your point madame mayor. Yes, I see how is

[1:24:24] this built, but again, it's supporting what was written in this which says it's

[1:24:29] on it's not in the hamlets. It's in the rural areas. And I don't see that a

[1:24:37] communal is necessarily going to help unless we can go onto a lake and build

[1:24:42] 10 homes or or whatever or lodge or or whatever. So, well, I think one of the

[1:24:47] things we'll do this time when we we hire the economists to to to look at

[1:24:51] those projections is to tell them that we now have a utility that allows you to

[1:24:54] build on communal services and we can now build in our hamlets and our

[1:24:58] villages in the way that we couldn't before. And I'm hoping that they will

[1:25:01] deliver us some different news and ideas about then what is possible. No, and I

[1:25:06] think that would be great. And I'll just I guess make one last comment cuz others

[1:25:10] want to speak. But you know, part of that then is doing the SWAT analysis to

[1:25:15] say here are the strengths. Here's what it's going to mean to the taxpayer. Uh

[1:25:20] here's the opportunities. Here's the threats. And I believe that will help if

[1:25:25] individuals can see that it's going to change the constantly escalating tax

[1:25:31] base that is happening in central front. If we can if we can grow and if we can

[1:25:36] have a different picture in front of us than what this is portraying. Okay.

[1:25:42] Thank you. Great. Thank you. I think there was a gentleman at the back too

[1:25:44] who wanted to ask a question.

[1:26:02] So the question was um with the reference to the high quality uh output

[1:26:07] from these systems, why is the water not then being reused elsewhere on the site?

[1:26:13] So like a gray water system for flushing toilets and whatnot. I'm going to let

[1:26:16] Brad handle that one. Yeah. So the output is technically feasible to do

[1:26:20] that. We've done that in a number of situations where water is a bit more

[1:26:24] rare. Um particularly in northern Alberta. Um so we have remote

[1:26:30] communities where they actually haul in water. Um they use the water, the dirty

[1:26:34] water, then they have to haul it back out. So we put treatment systems in

[1:26:37] minimize um what they're pulling what they're, you know, hauling out, but also

[1:26:41] what what they're reusing. So putting it through purple pipe, which allows them

[1:26:44] to to flush toilets and that sort of thing. um the infrastructure required to

[1:26:48] do that and the fees and and if you compare a cost analysis so that where

[1:26:52] you have water in a well that's already been you know it's it's potable uh to

[1:26:57] the extent that maybe you have to put a UV on it um it it just makes more sense

[1:27:02] to use that water um there's less permitting there's less other uh issues

[1:27:08] okay so so sorry just one second Abby is going to bring a mic to you because they

[1:27:13] just can't hear you online without Go ahead. Yeah, sorry. So, you mentioned

[1:27:18] the water that you are going to be using is coming from the lake. I think that

[1:27:23] was your comment. And so, if you're treating lake

[1:27:27] water for domestic use, why can't you treat your effluent the same way for

[1:27:34] your same domestic use instead of just discharging that waste water back into

[1:27:40] the east basin?

[1:27:44] So you want me to talk to that? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Just from a technical

[1:27:48] standpoint on the actual effluent uh or the output is is yes, you can do that.

[1:27:54] Um but there's also um environmental approval requirements for doing that and

[1:28:02] certain areas are less uh interested in doing that. So uh you can get it, you

[1:28:08] could go through the permitting process and get that, but it would take um more

[1:28:12] work. um studies and to to prove that that's okay. And it's more based around

[1:28:18] it being um reused for um like it can be reused for reuse water that's not for

[1:28:26] drinking. To to be clear, that's this is this does not produce drinking water

[1:28:31] unless you do another level of of polishing. And even at doing that,

[1:28:36] there's um permitting required for that. and and that's not something that would

[1:28:41] be, you know, seen as as needed. So, it wouldn't be approved.

[1:28:48] All right. Just so that you understand that effluent that's going into the East

[1:28:52] Basin is our drinking water also that we're using for our domestic use. My

[1:28:58] next question would be in the case of the public school

[1:29:02] installation, why not have that waste

[1:29:07] water put down into a leeching bed down by the train station

[1:29:13] site. So it doesn't go into the lake at all, any of your effluent.

[1:29:19] So that that those certainly are possibilities and that's something the

[1:29:23] environmental study would look at. So, we haven't we haven't done the full

[1:29:26] environmental study for that site. Um, so where we're going to get the water

[1:29:31] from and where the water is going to go to is is still yet to actually be

[1:29:37] determined. And and but you're right, if if part of the design for the Sharpet

[1:29:41] Lake school site were to want to take some of the gray water and reuse it in

[1:29:45] the building again for some reason, that's certainly that's a design

[1:29:49] possibility and something that just would have to be considered as part of

[1:29:52] the approvals process. All right, just on that same subject

[1:29:56] though, um drawing the water from the west basin, how would you contend with

[1:30:01] zebra muzzle buildup on your water intake? Sort of like things like in on

[1:30:07] Lake Ontario, I understand they use huge chlorination systems to

[1:30:13] mitigate zebra muscle and other wild life buildup.

[1:30:20] So the intake design would be done by the consultant engineer that's designing

[1:30:25] the wastewater plant. Um we don't design intake um points but so I can't speak to

[1:30:30] that exactly what technology they're using there. Um but yeah we would need a

[1:30:34] way to get that influent like that clean water or that water in initially. Yeah.

[1:30:41] Another question. uh your operator that would be operating that

[1:30:46] system would he be on site or is that all computer controlled and controlled

[1:30:53] by alarm systems and so on? No. So the operator has a a minimum

[1:30:59] requirement of of hours on site typically 12 hours a week uh that they

[1:31:03] need to be there. So they would uh be doing their their routine work that's

[1:31:08] required by the ECA but also required by the O andM of the equipment that that's

[1:31:13] that's supplied and so they would be doing all that documentation. In

[1:31:16] addition to that there is communications to the plant at all times

[1:31:25] 24/7. Okay, we're closing in on the 7:30 mark and I know we had promised to get

[1:31:30] people off home but I see we've got another question at the back there. So

[1:31:33] Abby will share the mic with you. Um a couple of questions. You So this is

[1:31:38] strictly a wastewater system, but the whole concept behind it is that it can

[1:31:43] service multiple units which brings density. But if that's the case for

[1:31:47] wastewater, what is the plan to service domestic water at that quantity? Because

[1:31:52] you're comparing this communal wastewater system to a personal septic

[1:31:56] system. Well, for those of us that have a septic system, we have a well that

[1:32:00] services our dwellings. So, if you're going to bring in a communal wastewater

[1:32:04] system, how are you servicing that many residences or that many dwellings for

[1:32:09] water because presumably it's not a single well.

[1:32:13] So, on on the drinking water side of things, I didn't touch on um that

[1:32:16] technology tonight um but happy to do that anytime. Uh so, drinking water uh

[1:32:22] is is regulated again very strictly by the Ministry of Environment. There is a

[1:32:26] drinking water standard that needs to be hit. Um there's technologies to go from

[1:32:30] whatever that source water is. It could be a well, could be a communal well, it

[1:32:34] could be a lake, a river. As long as there's adequate um flow and enough uh

[1:32:40] supply, that is all determined by the environmental assessment. And then from

[1:32:45] there, the system is designed based on the influent water and even

[1:32:49] considerations of seasonal flow because sometimes you might have more algae or

[1:32:54] more uh organic growth in the spring or summer. So those things are all part of

[1:32:58] that study and cons and consistency. And then it goes through a design a custom

[1:33:02] water treatment plant to treat that source water to produce the the very

[1:33:07] strict effluent that's required for drinking water standards on communal

[1:33:11] systems. Aren't we missing half the conversation? Because we can't have

[1:33:15] residential dwellings with just waste water and no domestic, right? So from a

[1:33:19] cost perspective, we actually need two systems to run whatever these

[1:33:24] communities or dwellings are. You can't have one without the other. Correct. You

[1:33:29] can have communal you can have individual wells that that are per home.

[1:33:34] Um you can also have a communal system that does the treatment. So depending on

[1:33:39] um the setting the situation we've had, you know, where potable water is

[1:33:43] available by the the local municipality. In this case, obviously not, but that

[1:33:48] sometime is the sit sometimes is the situation. Um, other times it's um wells

[1:33:53] per home and then other times it's a communal well or some sort of drinking

[1:33:57] water system. But yes, you're correct. There's another half to this that is um

[1:34:00] the drinking water side. So I I'm just going to add a little bit to that answer

[1:34:04] if I could. So uh on the provincial side um technically from a planning

[1:34:09] perspective what Brad's page is called partial services, right? So you have

[1:34:13] private services for for water and public for for the sewage or vice versa.

[1:34:18] and that generally is frowned upon now in terms of development. So I think what

[1:34:22] you're talking about is yes, we focused on the wastewater tonight because we

[1:34:26] know that people are very concerned about the output and what that does to

[1:34:30] groundwater and lake water. But but yes, so any development going forward and and

[1:34:35] this is a decision that the utility is going to have to make, but generally

[1:34:38] they would operate both a water treatment system for drinking and and

[1:34:42] the wastewater treatment. So, so the water coming in comes in for the

[1:34:46] drinking water and is what comes out of the taps and then the the wastewater

[1:34:51] treatment is what is then going back out to wherever that output is going to be.

[1:34:55] So you in all likelihood you're right there there's two parts to the equation

[1:34:59] and they're working in tandem. And then this MBR system is it proprietary?

[1:35:06] Uh no MBR is not proprietary. There's um hundreds of membrane manufacturers. Uh

[1:35:11] we chose the Violia Z500S which is this model and only because we've been

[1:35:16] testing it for about seven years and uh it's the best performing membrane that

[1:35:20] we've found. Question you mentioned about how whoever's on the system will

[1:35:26] pay into it in terms of their monthly cost based on consumption whatever

[1:35:32] measurement that is cubic meter square feet whatever. But

[1:35:36] then you also mentioned that there's like an input into that for replacement

[1:35:41] cost built into it. Is that correct? Yes. So typically

[1:35:45] the the water utility um handles that calculation based on the water rate. So

[1:35:50] the service rate um has you know the ongoing operational cost because

[1:35:54] remember that guy person has to girl or guy has to go to site um 12 hours a week

[1:35:59] um make those reports. So there's there's cost there, but then there's

[1:36:03] also that future cost of replacing the membranes every seven to 10 years. So

[1:36:07] that's all built into the the rate like cost increase because from what

[1:36:13] what you're saying Sorry, can we just wait? Sorry, can we wait for the mic?

[1:36:16] Sorry. Yeah. So you said it's been around roughly what 20 years give or

[1:36:20] take. The technology has been around since the '9s. Yes. And the the service

[1:36:24] life being 40 years. So, have has it been proven that like the cost going in

[1:36:29] is enough to sustain the cost of a replacement given that presumably that's

[1:36:33] going to increase significantly over time?

[1:36:37] Sorry, the the plant has a service life of roughly 3540 years. And that really

[1:36:42] comes down to the um building structure itself, how how well it's maintained,

[1:36:48] lots of variables that go into that, no different than your home. Um, so the the

[1:36:52] the life of the equipment has a meantime before failure that's indicated by the

[1:36:57] manufacturer. For example, a pump has a life to it. That's all taken into the

[1:37:01] calculation based on what the acrrual cost will need to be set aside for um

[1:37:06] the rate. So to say that the rate would never go up would be incorrect because

[1:37:11] you know we have inflation. So that is is obviously going to be built into

[1:37:14] those rates as as time goes on.

[1:37:20] Thanks. Um, Sonia, I want to ask about the approval

[1:37:24] process kind of locally. So, if there's a development that comes that wants to

[1:37:28] look at doing a development, does that does that sit with the the new service

[1:37:34] board to say that it's feasible? Or is it the still the municipality and the

[1:37:38] county that says, you know, that's the development we want in that area and

[1:37:42] servicing. This is an option that the this the corporation can look at because

[1:37:47] then part two of that would be if you do a 20 lot development and

[1:37:54] only five homes get built, is a service corporation then running at a loss

[1:37:59] trying to look after after those homes until it's fully built out because it

[1:38:03] could take a while for some of those lots to get built out. Yeah. So I guess

[1:38:07] the first so to answer the first part of the question um the decision on

[1:38:12] development in terms of like planning applications are if if it's if it's been

[1:38:18] a township decision it's still a township decision the the public utility

[1:38:22] so far municipal services the intent is they would be treated like another

[1:38:27] agency right so if somebody is interested in developing on communal

[1:38:30] then we want a representative from the utility company to come to the

[1:38:34] pre-application meeting to meet with the developer to explain to them what's

[1:38:38] possible, what the regulations are, how the process would work, but ultimately

[1:38:42] the decision on the development would still be the townships. Now, with

[1:38:46] respect to the second part of the question, um, that's a good question. I

[1:38:51] I'm I'm not sure. Ultimately, the development is still up to the developer

[1:38:56] to build out. And I think what would happen, and Joe maybe correct me if I'm

[1:39:00] wrong, because the utility is still sort of figuring out these details, but if

[1:39:03] you're building 20 homes, then you're actually coming to the county right now

[1:39:07] for approval for what's called a plan of subdivision. And we would have within

[1:39:12] that subdivision agreement clauses that talk about when the public utility takes

[1:39:17] over those systems. And if there's supposed to be 20 homes and there's only

[1:39:22] five, then the developer is going to continue to own and need to take care of

[1:39:27] that system until they've built it out. So, they're going to have to do their

[1:39:30] costbenefit analysis very closely because, you know, the utility is not

[1:39:34] going to take on something and then be the developer and try and find people or

[1:39:37] homes to be built on these lots. That's not what the utility is is here for.

[1:39:44] So, so now I have a question about the Sharet Lake site specifically because I

[1:39:47] know a lot of people are worried about what could potentially happen to Sharet

[1:39:50] Lake. So, I guess in in your system, I don't think we got a good

[1:39:56] answer on what is the fail safe to ensure that nothing happens if we're

[1:40:01] discharging back into the lake because I think we only get to mess that up once.

[1:40:06] So, I'm I'm gonna answer and then Brad, you can tell me if I got this right or

[1:40:09] not. So my understanding is that everything that Brad talked about if

[1:40:12] absolutely everything failed that nothing would go out to the lake or a

[1:40:18] septic bed or wherever that output is designed to be. It would go into a

[1:40:21] holding tank and it would then I mean how quickly 5 hours you would have

[1:40:26] somebody on site probably there would have to be regularly it would have to be

[1:40:30] fixed and then it would have to be up and running again and the holding tank

[1:40:33] would have to be pumped but it would be it would shut itself down. It would not

[1:40:37] output to wherever the output is, whether it's one of the basins of the

[1:40:40] lake, whether it's a wetland somewhere, whether it's a septic bed, it just would

[1:40:44] shut down and it would divert to a holding tank.

[1:40:49] That is correct. Yeah. So, the exactly what you said. So, it gets held away is

[1:40:52] the is the only option. So, it can't go through the membrane because the plant's

[1:40:55] down. Then then trucks have to come in and remove the sewage. Yeah. You hear I

[1:41:00] know people have heard horror stories about like in in cities. So, for

[1:41:03] instance, in Kingston, there's a lot of areas in the downtown of Kingston that

[1:41:06] still have what are called combined sewers. So, that's where your your waste

[1:41:09] water and your storm water actually get combined into the same pipe. And when

[1:41:13] you have a major rain event, it overwhelms it and stuff gets dumped out

[1:41:16] into the river. So, there's no there's nothing combined here. There there's

[1:41:20] there's no way for it to get where it's supposed to go. If it's not running

[1:41:24] through the system properly, the system shuts down and it diverts to a holding

[1:41:27] tank.

[1:41:30] There's one at the back and then the gentleman in the white. Thank you. And I

[1:41:34] I apologize if this was answered at the presentation because I was late getting

[1:41:37] here. But for the Charlotte Lake site specifically, has an environmental

[1:41:42] assessment process started yet? And what is the cost of that? And who will bear

[1:41:49] that cost? Will that be a municipal cost or will that be borne by a utility or

[1:41:54] developer?

[1:41:57] So to answer, so the the environmental assessment process has not started yet.

[1:42:02] And again, that's something the township is going to have to decide on as a

[1:42:05] council. Um that the environmental specimen process right now is

[1:42:10] unfortunately very very lengthy. So it's actually to the benefit to get started

[1:42:15] sooner rather than later and then perhaps recoup costs from a developer.

[1:42:19] But I know right now we're actively looking um at funding applications like

[1:42:24] grants to help pay for it so that it is not something that the township is

[1:42:29] paying completely out of pocket

[1:42:36] for. Thank you Sonia. My question is towards the end of your presentation you

[1:42:40] talked about getting public input so that the council can decide where we

[1:42:44] would like to to put if and where we would like to put communal services.

[1:42:48] what's going what are the next steps? So, how can people uh be able to give

[1:42:53] their feedback um going forward? That is that's great segue. Thank you,

[1:42:58] Councelor Gaudy. Um so, so yeah, so this is really just sort of the first part of

[1:43:02] the conversation in terms of what's going to happen with the uh with the

[1:43:07] official plan in terms of this conversation. If you want to reach out

[1:43:11] uh in the interm, I've left my business card over there as well as um I think

[1:43:15] Brad has left his as well. Um but if you talk to him about the official plan,

[1:43:19] he's only going to send it to me. So um there's also the engage fratnack site

[1:43:23] has like a question and answer uh um function on it as well if you have

[1:43:27] questions you want to submit or you can email me directly. But I think in terms

[1:43:31] of a next step what we are going to do is we're going to go away and we we need

[1:43:36] to come up with sort of a draft set of policies because I think a lot of people

[1:43:40] like I could ask you here tonight, what does everybody want? and you're kind of

[1:43:43] like I don't really know because I'm not a planner and and I don't write planning

[1:43:47] stuff and and that's completely fair. So I think what we would do is come up with

[1:43:51] a set of policies that would address all of those bullet points that I told all

[1:43:56] the various scenarios and then what we would do is we would then uh publish

[1:44:00] that and have a public meeting and so it would be published well in advance of

[1:44:05] the public meeting. People could look at what the proposed policies are. um we

[1:44:09] could have another meeting like this where I could say okay this is why I

[1:44:12] wrote this what does everybody think and we would accept feedback in terms of how

[1:44:16] that would work uh for the various areas so that's that's probably our next step

[1:44:20] is to just to have that public meeting and just to add to that whatever you put

[1:44:24] on engage front neck uh we need the same thing that we can put on our website as

[1:44:30] well yeah and so we we'll certainly share

[1:44:33] that with the township yeah the gentleman the white I think

[1:44:37] Abby had another question. Oh, one at the back and then

[1:44:46] hi just a follow-up question to u the questions around failure of the plant.

[1:44:51] Um I know we've been talking specifically about failures within the

[1:44:55] plant but the plant is part of a system which includes the piping etc to get the

[1:44:59] effluent to the plant. So my questions are around um you know failures of that

[1:45:05] infrastructure. Will there be any monitoring of the

[1:45:08] quality of the water in Charbet Lake? Because if there is failure in that

[1:45:12] infrastructure to get to the plant, the water tables within the area are

[1:45:17] connected to uh Charet Lake and all the aquifers that um also supply the various

[1:45:23] wells in the area that would be serviced by the communal services. So are there

[1:45:28] plans in place to test the water quality to ensure that you know there

[1:45:34] potentially could be a failure within the infrastructure? And the second part

[1:45:37] of that question is who owns that infrastructure? Is that infrastructure

[1:45:42] the piping etc owned by the utility or is it owned by the township?

[1:45:49] Do you want to answer the pipe question first? Sure. Um so the the conveyance

[1:45:54] system or pipe collection system um is typically installed um close these are

[1:46:01] these are new developments so they're not tied in with storm water so they are

[1:46:04] are closed pipe but um monitoring is determined by the ministry of

[1:46:09] environment so the environmental assessment would determine you know the

[1:46:12] feasibility of the collection system would be all part of that uh the

[1:46:15] technology as far as how the water's being being treated and then and the

[1:46:19] output um and then what other um fail safes need to be put in that'll be all

[1:46:24] controlled by the Ministry of Environment and and they have that say.

[1:46:28] So if they want monitoring of the lake then then then that gets put on.

[1:46:33] So, and I think in terms of the ownership of the pipes, I mean, that is

[1:46:36] something that would have to be worked out with the municipality, the

[1:46:38] developer, and the utility company, right? And if it's something that the

[1:46:41] utility uh company is going to own, then there are mechanis legal mechanisms like

[1:46:46] an easement, right? If we had to cross a property or something in order to get to

[1:46:50] wherever the output goes. Um, so there's there's I can't give you one sole answer

[1:46:55] because it's going to depend on the site and how it's all going to work. Um, but

[1:46:59] that gets all worked out into whatever agreements go on the

[1:47:03] site. Although, just to add to that, the uh corporation right now is talking

[1:47:08] about who would own those pipes and we're leaning towards the fact that that

[1:47:12] should belong to the municipal service corporation. It's part of a system

[1:47:17] instead of it belonging to the municipality.

[1:47:23] Sorry, the gentleman in white behind you've been waiting for a while. Thank

[1:47:26] you, Brad. I'm I'm going to start with yourself on this one. Uh we are hearing

[1:47:32] uh throughout the news of a lot of efforts by both the Conservative

[1:47:36] government of Ontario and the recent Mark Mark Carney um election that there

[1:47:43] is going to be considerable pressure to build homes. So, I'm wondering, are you

[1:47:49] aware anywhere in Ontario where we've been able to use your systems to get

[1:47:55] some dollars out of the either the federal or the provincial governments to

[1:48:02] uh get this going and to be able to build homes quicker and stay online with

[1:48:07] the politicians? That's a great question.

[1:48:12] um a long one uh for an answer but uh just to say that the f sorry the the

[1:48:20] current structure of our province is centralized and a lot of the dollars I

[1:48:25] think there was 1.54 billion that was million billion

[1:48:30] that was um given out in grants to municipalities there were some rules

[1:48:35] around that you had to have an existing facility um there there was I I don't

[1:48:40] know all the details cuz I wasn't applying for those grants. But that's uh

[1:48:43] some of the information I got back from some of the um mayors and counselors. Um

[1:48:47] but essentially a lot of that money went to centralized infrastructure. So pipe

[1:48:51] expansions, plant expansions, and not decentralized. So um from a

[1:48:57] decentralized standpoint, you know, we're we're we're it's been a bit of an

[1:49:01] uphill battle for the last 20 years to be honest as far as you know, we have 40

[1:49:06] systems in Ontario. Um, and it's taken us 20 years to do that because of the

[1:49:10] regulatory process. Um, and most of those are all bought by developers, not

[1:49:14] not public money. And and in the US, for example, in Colorado, one area of

[1:49:19] Colorado in the last two years have installed 18 systems. So the US, I don't

[1:49:26] like to say it, but they're a bit more advanced in the decentralized component

[1:49:30] of of being able to treat water. They've been doing it for decades. they're

[1:49:33] actually at the point where they're replacing systems that are end of life

[1:49:37] um that they've been doing it that long. So, um Ontario's money has been

[1:49:41] centralized publicly.

[1:49:49] So I guess the the question then becomes to the county and to our

[1:49:55] council, is there an opportunity to be a leader to go to our member of parliament

[1:50:01] and our MPP and say we would like to grow. Can you guys jump in? Mark Connie

[1:50:10] wants to do a wartime type of building. Do we have the infrastructure? Can we

[1:50:17] get this done? Joe or Fran, do you want to talk about

[1:50:21] what's been I'll just mentioned that we have been to the Ministry of Environment

[1:50:27] probably between Joe's probably been there seven, eight times. I've been

[1:50:31] there about five times where we talk to the ministers and tell them we need

[1:50:37] help. This is this EA is going to kill us and all this stuff. And so far they

[1:50:43] nod their heads, they smile. It looks like we got somewhere, but when we get

[1:50:48] back home, no letters come to say that they have understood and are prepared to

[1:50:53] work with us, but we're not giving up. We're still going to be doing that,

[1:50:57] right, Joe? Yeah. um your your municipal leaders have been very active in this um

[1:51:05] comm communicating to provincial MPPPS look you want more housing built we've

[1:51:12] got a solution for building different forms of housing in rural eastern

[1:51:16] Ontario that the model that we've come up with in front is easily transferable

[1:51:21] to other jurisdictions all we do we want you to

[1:51:24] help us invest in this and I think there's been um request to actually have

[1:51:31] monies from the province to help the utility or to help fund these projects.

[1:51:36] I can tell you that South Front Knac made an application for the housing

[1:51:40] money that Brad mentioned. It was a perfect situation in terms of they had

[1:51:44] their all their ducks lined up, but they weren't successful. And the mayor of

[1:51:48] South Front has reached out to MPP and said, "You got to explain this to us cuz

[1:51:52] we we're trying to help you build the housing supply. We've got we've got the

[1:51:57] perfect solution to build different forms of rural housing. We need you to

[1:52:01] to recognize this and fund it. So, I mean, I I do congratulate our counselors

[1:52:06] for pushing. Uh I think at this point we're about 15

[1:52:11] minutes past when we said we would end. So, I do want to wrap up so that people

[1:52:14] can go home and Aby's going to have to I think shut things down online. But I

[1:52:17] just we will stay behind. If you have more questions, please feel free to stay

[1:52:21] and chat with us. Um, but just in general, thank you for taking the time

[1:52:25] uh to come out and speak with us tonight and to, you know, for those that joined

[1:52:28] online. Um, as I said, please, if you're interested in learning more or being

[1:52:33] participating in the next steps, make sure you leave your name and your email

[1:52:36] address or your mailing address before you leave uh so that we can get in touch

[1:52:39] with you. And certainly, um, all the slides you saw tonight will, uh, be put

[1:52:44] up as a PDF and we'll also send out the link to the YouTube video if you want to

[1:52:48] share it with all of your friends or watch it again. So, thank you again.

Communal Water & Wastewater Systems Info Session

Transcript