[0:01] All right. Thank you. We'll call to order the meeting of the safety and licensing committee for Wednesday, January 28th. Please join me in the pledge of allegiance.

[0:12] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which

[0:18] it stands.

[0:19] One nation under God, individual, with liberty and justice for all.

[0:26] Okay.

[0:27] We'll start with a roll call of membership from my left.

[0:30] Denise Vinton, District 6.

[0:32] Radforkas, District 3.

[0:34] I'm Katie Banzilla, District 5.

[0:36] Sherry is hard sign District 13.

[0:38] We'll let the record show that all their person is hoping to join us via Zoom, but if

[0:45] not, he would be excused.

[0:48] I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes from our previous move.

[0:51] No, moved.

[0:51] Second.

[0:52] We have a motion and a second.

[0:53] Any discussion?

[0:56] Hearing none will vote.

[0:57] All those in favor say aye.

[0:59] Aye.

[1:00] Any opposed?

[1:01] That motion passes for zero.

[1:03] We do have two public hearings this evening.

[1:06] We'll start with number 260079, the Demerit Point Violation Appearance for the O'Night

[1:13] of BP.

[1:15] Is there anyone from the O'Night of BP here to speak on this this evening?

[1:23] I'll just ask one more time.

[1:25] Is there anyone from the O'Night of BP?

[1:28] Do I have to actually ask three times for this item?

[1:30] Okay, thank you.

[1:32] All right.

[1:32] All right, hearing none, we'll move on to the next 2-6-0-0-8-0.

[1:38] The Demarit Point violation appearance for misfits tabern.

[1:41] Is there anyone here from misfits tabern this evening?

[1:46] Anyone from misfits tabern?

[1:50] All right, doesn't appear like anyone is here.

[1:53] We'll move on to our first action item then.

[1:57] 2-6-0-0-0-1, the proposed alcohol license policy revision.

[2:02] We'll have to approve.

[2:03] So we have a motion to approve in a second.

[2:06] Are there any questions or clerk monitors?

[2:10] Is there anything that you would like to add?

[2:14] Director, too.

[2:19] So in the memo, I kind of laid out the biggest changes

[2:22] that we had on the rollout of minor changes.

[2:25] But the biggest changes is that we don't do

[2:27] the special use permits anymore

[2:28] for the community development department

[2:30] and so they've changed their entire investigation procedures.

[2:33] And we wanted to make sure that was reflected in the policy.

[2:35] And then we have recently experienced some less common situations like place-to-place transfers.

[2:45] And we've had a lot of instances lately of people surrendering their alcohol licenses to us.

[2:50] And as a new clerk, for me, not being sure of the procedures, it was a lot of it lived in former clerk linches mind.

[2:57] And so even though these are procedures that we've had in the past, they're things that

[3:01] we just wanted to explicitly have written down for the future.

[3:04] So that's why we added those sections.

[3:06] Perfect.

[3:06] Any other questions from others present for the committee?

[3:12] All right.

[3:13] Hearing none, we'll go ahead and vote.

[3:14] All those in favor say aye.

[3:16] Aye.

[3:17] Any opposed?

[3:18] Emotion passes for zero.

[3:20] Next item, two six, zero one, two six.

[3:23] The schedule of deposits update.

[3:26] move to approve. Second? We have a motion to approve in a second. Are there any questions

[3:31] from committee or would anyone from staff like to offer any information on this?

[3:39] Okay.

[3:42] Go

[3:42] ahead. So this is just a periodic update revision to kind of account for new changes in the cities code

[3:51] regarding the schedule of deposits that's on file with the clerk's office. I know attorney

[3:55] I'm very glad to put a lot of time into this.

[3:58] Clark Mowler put a lot of time into this as well,

[4:00] a number of other departments put a lot of time

[4:02] into kind of hoping to get some of this stuff together.

[4:05] So it's basically housekeeping,

[4:07] but it took a fair amount of time,

[4:09] and I think it's worth mentioning that.

[4:11] Thank you.

[4:13] Other hard time?

[4:15] Thank you, Chair Mayer, direct to Attorney Browin.

[4:17] Attorney Browin, is there a reason

[4:19] or can you explain to me why the forfeiture amounts

[4:22] were essentially nonexistent prior to this?

[4:25] So now that column is added, or the fine amount,

[4:29] forfeiture amount, the total bond looked like it had always been there,

[4:34] but not this additional, this additional column.

[4:38] I believe that is just essentially a breakdown

[4:42] of what was already the case because the total amount

[4:47] that deposit is reflective of the underlying forfeiture

[4:50] with the additional court costs associated with it.

[4:52] So this is just providing basically more information of what actually is something that's imposed by the city

[5:00] And the rest of it is cost associated. Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you. Any other questions?

[5:09] All right, hearing none, we'll go ahead and vote. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion passes for zero.

[5:18] Next is 260081, the first amendment to the memorandum of understanding for automatic assistance between the fox crossing fire department and the Ableton fire department.

[5:30] Move to approve.

[5:32] Second.

[5:32] We have a motion to approve in a second.

[5:34] Chief, did you want to add any information?

[5:39] Thank you, Chair.

[5:41] The amendment to the original automatic aid agreement is pretty minor.

[5:46] When we develop the agreement, we requested Foxcrossing to come into the city of Appleton in their

[5:53] designated area for any structural fire.

[5:55] At that time, they chose not to have us respond to the village of Fox crossing.

[6:02] They have now changed their mind and request us to respond into their community as well.

[6:07] So that is the first amendment as we'll now be helping them out too.

[6:13] Okay. Any questions from other persons present or the committee hearing none will vote.

[6:21] All those in favor say aye.

[6:22] Aye.

[6:23] Any opposed?

[6:24] That motion passes 4-0.

[6:27] I would entertain a motion to move the balance of the agenda.

[6:31] So moved.

[6:33] Any discussion on doing so?

[6:38] So that would be item 2-6-008-3-260086 and 2-6-0089.

[6:46] Hearing none, we'll go ahead and vote.

[6:49] All those in favor say aye.

[6:51] Aye.

[6:52] any opposed? That motion passes for zero. We do have several information items but before we do

[6:59] that I did see some folks come in after we got started. Is there anybody here from the ONIDA BP

[7:05] or MISFITS tavern? Okay. Always good to check. So then we will start with the information item 260115, the

[7:17] A-A-S-D, truancy ordinance update,

[7:20] and that's being provided by Superintendent Harches

[7:24] if you wanted to step forward.

[7:27] Yeah, good evening.

[7:28] Thank you for giving us an opportunity to again

[7:30] to provide an update.

[7:32] When we were last year in December,

[7:34] I had given an overview of how we had communicated

[7:38] the ordinance to students, staff, and families,

[7:41] and then we also shared first quarter information.

[7:44] And what we're doing tonight is to provide an update now that the first semester is over.

[7:49] So the first semester ended the second week of January.

[7:52] Then takes us about a week and a half to put some data together.

[7:55] And that's what we're sharing with you tonight.

[7:58] So there is a handout that I put at your place and also clerk Militaire has additional paper copies

[8:03] if anybody else would like that.

[8:05] And then it also should be as part of your agenda.

[8:08] So I'll just take you through a couple of data points that we have.

[8:11] and then I'll turn it over to Stephanie Marta, who is our attendance coordinator for the high school.

[8:17] So on top of the document, you see chronic absenteeism data.

[8:20] That's the first data point that we look at.

[8:24] And just to review,

[8:29] being chronically absent means that a student misses 10% of eligible school days,

[8:35] regardless of the absences being excused or unexcused.

[8:39] So this is just simply the number of days that a student would have missed.

[8:43] and 9 days is 10% of our 91st semester school days, and you can see that this rate for our high school students was 22.3% during the first semester.

[8:55] It is a reason for optimism. As you can see, it's a little bit better than any of our last four years, much better than 21-22, but not dramatically different in terms of the absences.

[9:09] The next data point is habitually truancy data and again to review that's a student missing all are part of five or more school days in a semester without an excuse.

[9:22] So a parent can excuse their child up to 10 days during the school year.

[9:28] This means that a parent did not excuse their child, or there was not excuse.

[9:34] And 23.1% of our students were habitually true in during the first semester.

[9:40] So you can see that is our best semester even going back to pre-pandemic years.

[9:46] And then the third data point here is looking at students who are both productly absent and

[9:51] habitually true and that was 13% or 556 students.

[9:56] Just in comparison, last year that number was over.

[10:00] So again, some optimism here. We feel good about the first semester. The next thing we need to do is to look at the academic pieces. This is just simply the first step in student success and that's having students be in school and in class. The next thing we will do is we'll look at all of these 556 students to see how do they do academically and what other interventions could we provide for them. So those are the data points that I wanted to share.

[10:26] Are there any questions on those three data points before I turn it over to Stephanie Marta?

[10:33] I'll just ask looking at the percentages, it looks like an improvement, but it looks

[10:39] like a very small improvement.

[10:43] How are we sure that the improvement that we're seeing wouldn't have just naturally occurred

[10:52] or given the interventions that are in place

[10:54] versus needing to have the citation option.

[10:58] I think that more important than this number

[11:02] is going to be when we look at the number of students

[11:05] who missed 100 days or 50 days in a school year.

[11:10] And those are the students that we know

[11:12] are not going to be successful.

[11:14] So a student can be, like I said, chronically absent

[11:18] and still do okay academically.

[11:22] So, it's those numbers that we will be bringing to you later in the year as we get a better handle on those numbers.

[11:29] I think that's going to help us decide if really this has made a difference.

[11:34] And it really is very difficult for us to say, okay, a student misses 100 days versus a student who misses 90.

[11:43] It's the student who misses 90 going to be better off academically.

[11:47] really hard to say. We want to be able to look at and say we have significant improvement

[11:54] in those kids who are missing significant numbers of school days. So I would agree with

[11:59] you that really this is the day to we keep it's the day to that the state requires us to

[12:03] keep but we have to go deeper we have to look at those students who maybe missed 100 days

[12:09] last year where are they this year but about the kids who missed 50 days so at the end of

[12:14] the school year, you're going to be chronically absent if you've missed 18 school days or more.

[12:18] And if you recall last year, we shared the number of students that missed 36 days, 50 days, 100 days.

[12:24] Those are the students we're really going to want to look at.

[12:27] Okay, and I guess I would also just add that one of the things that we talked about in the amendment

[12:35] to the past resolution was that we wanted to see that kind of data broken down

[12:40] into specific groups, you know, showing people with disabilities and so forth.

[12:47] So, now that I see at the bottom that one citation has been written to a student.

[12:55] So, does that mean the next time we could expect to see that data broken down?

[12:59] Yes, right.

[13:00] The really, let me think about that a little bit.

[13:04] Even, you know, usually under five, we don't share data points because it,

[13:11] sure, you're worrying about identifying student.

[13:14] Yes, so really, anytime we get above five, that's when we start to put data points together.

[13:20] And could we see that then, when you're talking about the 100 days, 50 days students, could we see

[13:27] the demographics of those students?

[13:30] Yes, absolutely.

[13:32] And then I would just add that we did talk about in that resolution also about some follow-up on the school board side.

[13:41] Just is that something that we'll see reported on in the next meeting?

[13:49] Potentially. It's got to get it on the school board calendar.

[13:53] So the words been busy, first priority right now is a referendum, but certainly in this next semester,

[14:02] we know that we have to update the attendance policy, the board policy.

[14:07] Yes, okay.

[14:08] And all of those pieces that were in the amended resolution, they'll all be coming.

[14:13] The feedback from, okay, great.

[14:16] Any other questions?

[14:18] Alderhart's time.

[14:19] Thank you, Jeremy.

[14:20] I addressed the superintendent.

[14:21] I appreciate the data that you provided, but I know you know that more is better.

[14:29] So I would have been interested in seeing not just semester one, but additional

[14:34] semesters just to get a little bit more of a feel for how this has gone.

[14:40] I understand also there's only when you can in and date folks with the data as well.

[14:45] So I get that you have to be judicious in that regard, but I would have been looking for a little bit more data in that regard, especially the data that you provided verbally regarding the number of students that met both.

[15:00] So the thresholds, it would be nice to have this as a snapshot to show people that not just try to remember what you had said at the meeting. So in the future, if we could do that, I would really appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else?

[15:14] All there's presence.

[15:16] All there will for you on the category that fits both.

[15:21] I would also be interested to know aren't in school anymore.

[15:25] And they went out to college or found work.

[15:29] Or if that number is from students that were here last year

[15:33] and are here this year.

[15:36] Does that make sense?

[15:37] So you're asking to take the information from last year

[15:41] and make it apples-to-apples by removing the students who know and to go to school or is that

[15:48] a possibility, Alder? I'm sorry, it's super-entend and hard just.

[15:52] Yeah, I think I understand. So, what you're interested in is what we would call co-her data,

[15:59] meaning fit in that category of being both product absent and habituately true. And you want to

[16:05] know how they're doing this year, if they haven't graduated or moved on.

[16:09] Exactly.

[16:10] Okay.

[16:11] Yep.

[16:11] Thank you.

[16:12] We don't.

[16:13] Data like that.

[16:14] We have to hand calculator.

[16:15] We'll have to put a little time into.

[16:18] These data points are ones like I said that we have to have for the state.

[16:21] So these are readily available.

[16:24] We're just finished earlier today.

[16:27] Those type of data points that you're talking about.

[16:29] And all the rights are part of what you are asking for.

[16:32] We can get to you absolutely.

[16:35] Thank you.

[16:35] I agree with the other persons that that information is helpful, it's going to help us drill down into what council can do to improve things in particular persons with questions.

[16:49] So I'm going to turn it over then to Ms. Marta.

[16:52] Go ahead. Thank you.

[16:56] Hi everyone. Stephanie Marta is social middle and high schools in the district.

[16:59] Our information superintendent Hartches shared the last time when he came about our attendance education lessons that we're holding at the high schools.

[17:07] So, beginning in November, we have been holding what we're calling attendance education lessons

[17:14] for any high school student who has met the threshold for habitual truancy.

[17:19] So, they've had five or more unexcused absences all are part of a day during first semester so far.

[17:26] So, those students are invited during a non-instructional time during what they call flex time at the high

[17:30] school. They're invited to come to this lesson to hear about the laws around attendance and

[17:37] the school board or the school policy around attendance

[17:40] and truancy information about barriers to school attendance,

[17:45] talking about what we see with students and their barriers,

[17:49] and who in the school can help them.

[17:50] So we have lots of school people there, school counselors,

[17:55] social worker, psychologists, nurse, just a variety

[17:58] of different people who come to stand in front of the students

[18:01] and introduce themselves, where can I be found,

[18:04] what can I help you with, those kinds of things.

[18:05] And then we share information about, specifically, about what happens if students continue or their

[18:13] truancy gets worse, that we can look at a county referral for truancy to provide supports

[18:18] or that a truancy citation can be issued.

[18:21] So all of that information is shared with students at these lessons.

[18:25] Since November across our three high schools, we've had 409 students participate in these

[18:32] lessons.

[18:33] Again, these are most at-risk students when it comes to attendance, so obviously there's

[18:38] a lot of students who haven't shown up for these lessons because they're not in school

[18:41] or they choose not to attend.

[18:44] Of those students, we have been tracking their attendance, so from the time they attend

[18:50] the lesson, we pull their attendance rate, so how much they've been absent, and then we've

[18:56] been tracking each month what that looks like.

[18:59] So 41.8%, so 171 out of 409 of those students have increased their attendance rate since the time of attending the lesson, which we feel is positive.

[19:11] And then as you saw at the bottom, the last bit of information we wanted to share is that we've issued one citation since this started in November.

[19:20] And this is for a student who has not attended school since first semester of last school year.

[19:27] So excuse me he has not attended in over a year and prior to that had had

[20:00] The significant truancy concerns where we had involved out of gamey county by making a truancy referral to try to provide him with suppress his attendance, which wasn't successful. When you say invite student looks like they're you just asked nicely for them to come to the gym during their free time or how does that work. So the way it works at the high schools is there's a flex period. Every day of the week. So one of the days it's home room and the rest of the days are flexed.

[20:29] And students are signed up through a program at school.

[20:32] They have to be assigned a place to go.

[20:35] So prior to students, teachers can request a student.

[20:40] And that's where they put the request in,

[20:42] and then a student can't change that request.

[20:44] So the office, for all of these students who meet the criteria for

[20:48] truancy in that time period, the office requests those students.

[20:52] And then the students receive that notification that here's where you need to go during this time.

[20:57] And is that sort of like I think they call it something with an intervention like some kind of like

[21:04] In my my son's school. I know that there is a period of time

[21:08] It's typically home room and then there are times when you can say a student needs extra help or something

[21:14] I think it's RTI and it's something with an intervention. I cannot recall what it is

[21:19] But is there any schools they have like it's not really called RTI time

[21:23] But it's exactly what you're describing where students who receive interventions typically receive it

[21:27] during this time. At the high school level, um, sometimes students might be receiving additional

[21:32] support from teachers who request them. Um, so yes, that can happen at the high school level.

[21:37] Okay. I understand. That's helpful. Thank you. Any questions? Um, Alder Fenton?

[21:44] Thank you, Chair. May I address to Ms. Morton for that information? And I understand that what I'm

[21:49] less data driven to the state. Given that the last month-ish of this semester, I'm sure that you've

[22:02] been, we all remember the flow chart, I'm sure that you're going through the whole process.

[22:08] Sure. Do you and the other attendance coordinator and is there better earlier on in the process after maybe I clearly it's good that that 40 almost 42% of people of the students have improved their attendance, but do you feel like you're reaching people earlier in the process?

[22:38] I hope so, and I think so. I mean, we hear feedback from students and parents about wanting

[22:45] to make improvements in their attendance so that, you know, they don't have to deal

[22:49] with any sort of consequence. And we're always telling kids like the last thing we want

[22:54] to do is have a consequence for anybody. We want you in school, we want you here, we want

[22:59] you learning. And so I think we've heard feedback that kids are hearing this, and they don't

[23:05] want this to be a thing for them because I think and along with all the things we asked for and

[23:13] obviously I think it's too early right now with just a month of school but I think just in terms

[23:18] of again less data driven as we move further I'd like to see again on the flow chart you know how

[23:27] like how many people were responsive at the earlier stages not that we get all the way to the very

[23:34] next thing that can happen to you as a citation, because I would be hopeful that the combination

[23:40] of the attendance lessons and then the very clear layout that we'd get people responding

[23:48] earlier.

[23:49] So, just something to keep in mind.

[23:51] Thank you.

[23:52] Yeah.

[23:52] No problem.

[23:53] Any other questions?

[23:56] All right.

[23:57] Thank you very much.

[23:58] The next information item is 2-6-0092, the Flock Safety Cameras Presentation.

[24:08] We do have some folks who have come and they have some questions to ask.

[24:13] Would you prefer Chief Olson that the public wait until after the presentation?

[24:24] Yes, I think I'm cautiously optimistic that perhaps after seeing the presentation, some

[24:29] of their questions may be answered.

[25:00] Okay. So just so everyone knows who's here to speak on this item. We will have sometime after the presentation and then I'll just call you up and we'll go from there. I'll give you more instructions then. Thank you.

[25:15] How did you want to get started? I would just like to introduce, I think those that are here, reference this that are going to be speaking on it. So Captain Mike Wallace is in charge of our, is a patrol captain.

[25:30] He's got South and North Districts for those alders that are in here that have districts in the South and North District.

[25:38] He's going to be just doing an educational presentation on block safety, which is our ALPR technology that we use.

[25:46] We also have Christy McLeod. She is here remotely. She's also from block safety, so any questions that perhaps we can't answer

[25:55] or that aren't specific to Appleton, but more about the product, she's able to help out and answer those questions as well.

[26:04] Great.

[26:08] Sorry, I'm just trying to work on sharing the...

[26:11] No problem.

[26:12] Fair with me.

[26:14] Megan, do you think maybe you could give me a hand with trying to work through this?

[26:29] We know what's green.

[26:31] It's going to show up on if he clicks shares.

[26:33] Yep.

[26:34] Yeah.

[26:35] Yeah.

[26:37] Do we have a conflict with this?

[26:39] Yes.

[26:39] I think we have to get in the wheelchair.

[26:41] There we go.

[26:42] Yeah.

[26:43] Perfect.

[26:48] Thank you, Megan.

[26:52] All right.

[26:53] So as chief said, I'm Captain Mike Wallace.

[26:55] I'm happy to be here tonight to talk about flock safety.

[26:57] And the successes our agency have had with it.

[27:01] In my 21 years of law enforcement experience, this has easily been one of the most impactful tools

[27:06] we've acquired in my career.

[27:10] There's been a lot of information out there recently, some misinformation, so I think it's

[27:15] a good time to kind of refresh our memories and go over kind of what flock cameras are.

[27:21] Thank Kristin for being here as well to answer some of the more technical questions that

[27:26] may present at the end of this presentation.

[27:30] So I'd like to explain kind of what flock cameras are, what they are not, and how they're

[27:36] used.

[27:36] I have, in this presentation, some Appleton-specific results and benefits, real things that we've seen from major incidents to relatively minor everyday occurrences, and how this makes an impact on our city.

[27:52] Address some of the privacy and civil liberties and oversight concerns that I'm sure exist.

[27:56] These cameras have become relatively commonplace across the nation now, and I know those questions are out there.

[28:02] And then, you know, considerations for future use or expansion with the program.

[28:09] So public safety challenges facing the city of Appleton, increasing mobility of crime,

[28:13] stolen vehicles, hit and run, retail theft, fraud, weapons, offenses.

[28:17] I'd like to say that criminals don't really care much about imaginary lines on a map.

[28:22] And we do deal with those things in the city of Appleton.

[28:24] Crime costs crossing city and county boundaries as a regular occurrence.

[28:29] And, you know, we're growing as a city.

[28:32] and our officers, you know, we have limited officer staffing compared to that growth at times

[28:38] and you have to balance the budget.

[28:41] Flock has been a force multiplier for our agency and provides us much faster investigative

[28:47] leads.

[28:48] One of the things that Flock in their pitch to us and it's found to be true is that 70 to

[28:54] 80% of all crimes involve a vehicle in some capacity that can be, you know, to arrive at the

[28:59] scene to get away from the scene, but we find that to be accurate, and Flock has been

[29:04] very beneficial to us in holding people accountable for crimes they commit in the City of Appleton.

[29:11] The graphic you'll see there is a picture of what a Flock's traffic safety camera looks

[29:15] like. The top portion is simply the solar panel to charge the system, and then the camera

[29:22] mounted on a fixed pole. It's an automated license plate reader. It captures a vehicle license

[29:28] license plate and basic vehicle characteristics placed in the public right of way and records only what is visible to the public.

[29:37] What flocks safety cameras are not, they do not include facial recognition, they don't track people.

[29:44] There's no continuous surveillance and there's no tracking of speed or traffic violations or things like that.

[29:49] It's a snapshot of a license plate and a vehicle.

[29:57] So the system, like I said, it'll capture the vehicle image.

[30:00] Plate number and vehicle descriptors are logged, and the officers then can search back in the system using that criteria. Alerts can be created for stolen vehicles or other vehicles of interest beyond the lookout, bullows, and data auto deletes after a set retention period which for flock is 30 days unless they're saved for evidentiary purposes by us.

[30:26] So back in 2022 to 2023, we ran a pilot program. At that time we had 29 flights

[30:32] black cameras. After the pilot, we're now down to 20 cameras. It's 19 fixed cameras and one mobile camera that we can deploy throughout the city. It's mounted on a speed trailer.

[30:43] During that pilot, we had a lieutenant at the time that was tracking the success cases, basically going through the reports, pulling any incident where flock was mentioned as something that was useful in resolving that investigation.

[30:55] During that time, we encountered 183 verified successes, and that included 30 hit and run cases solved, 22 retail theft cases solved, five domestic violence arrests that were made, burglary offenses that were solved weapons complaints that it played an impact in fraud complaints and the recovery of 30 stolen vehicles just during the pilot alone.

[31:18] So

[31:21] what does it provide us, faster identification of suspect vehicles, reduced investigative time, increased case clearance rates, improved victim outcomes, as we're able to solve the offenses that they're calling us for on a more frequent basis, providing indisputable evidence that stands up in court, and a photograph of a vehicle being more reliable than witness testimony.

[31:42] 20.

[31:46] Cameras work 24-7 without overtime. They run all day all night. It allows our officers

[31:54] to dedicate more time to the proactive policing that we want them to engage them, video playback

[31:59] with the traditional cameras, investigative services, lieutenant position, hours and hours

[32:05] and hours are traditional cameras. Floc can dramatically reduce that time.

[32:10] Supports proactive in community policing without increasing staff because we're saving

[32:14] time all over the place with them.

[32:17] Regional and interagency collaboration, and I've highlighted this in some of the examples

[32:22] that I provide.

[32:24] When I was in the investigative services unit, we'd see come through the city of Appleton.

[32:28] Using flat cameras, one of the ATM hook-and-chain burglaries we experienced hook-and-chain to an

[32:34] ATM rip off the face of it, we were able to track that, you know, that's a very difficult

[32:39] thing to track back without the tech bandages that flock provides us.

[32:43] individuals would go steal mail from residences and then often time

[32:47] individuals oftentimes to cash those checks give them a cut and then keep the

[32:51] rest of the physical bank we can we can get back by acquiring the license plate

[32:55] to that vehicle. Enhanced regional. Meaning meaning you're not clear. No, no, no, no.

[33:01] It's the way that you said it came across. Okay. Just like that. Thank you. Enhanced

[33:05] regional and public public safety. It allows we at Appleton PD share data with

[33:09] Wisconsin law enforcement agencies.

[33:13] Touched on this in some of the previous slides,

[33:15] but the annual subscription, hurt and compare,

[33:19] lower long to simple poll that goes up.

[33:23] Privacy protections built into the system.

[33:25] There is no facial recognition with it.

[33:27] There's no identity data other than the license plate

[33:31] of a vehicle that is gathered.

[33:33] Searches require a legitimate law enforcement purpose,

[33:36] access being limited to trained personnel

[33:38] at the police department, currently are sworn staff,

[33:41] our front desk staff and our crime analysts have access to the data. All searches are logged

[33:47] and auditable while the 30-day retention period for the images through flock and then those images

[33:52] delete, the searches remain indefinitely and we can pull those up. I'm sure everybody's aware of

[33:58] the recent arrest of an officer for misusing flock and I would highlight that that's a

[35:00] An example of the safeguards that are built into the system. Anytime you involve humans in anything, there's the potential for misuse. We as law enforcement have access to a number of systems that are, there is potential for misuse of, and that arrest is what happens when someone does abuse the authority and the rights that they have. So, APD policies and oversight, we do have written policy governing camera use, defined data retention periods, supervisory review of access.

[35:29] us audit logs are available for review, for review.

[35:33] If we would have had an incident involving an officer misusing, there's certainly discipline

[35:36] up to an including termination that would apply to that.

[35:39] We have launched a transparency portal on our website, that is live right now, that provides

[35:44] some additional flock data, and we maintain strict privacy and audit policies with our data.

[35:53] We were kind of on the front end of flock, but now many cities in Wisconsin have flocked

[35:58] cameras and I think every agency would have the same results that Appleton has had.

[36:04] We've had successes in rapid stolen vehicle recovery, identifying and

[36:08] locating suspects in violent crimes, locating missing persons, identifying

[36:13] locating suspects in traffic offenses like hit and run and fleeing, and

[36:17] identifying and locating suspects in misdemeanor and property offenses.

[36:23] So takeaways, flat cameras, I believe, improve public safety outcomes.

[36:27] officers can quickly identify or eliminate individuals as a suspect of crime.

[36:31] They're a cost effective and efficient investigative tool.

[36:35] They have strong privacy safeguards already in place, proven benefits that we've seen here in the city of Appleton.

[36:42] And those are cases from homicide to retail theft and I'm going to highlight some of those moving forward.

[36:48] So the first case study is a homicide investigation and on 1115 of 22 we were called to a homicide in the 700 block of West Somers Street.

[36:56] On that day, our investigators identified a possible suspect vehicle, a suspect in the vehicle

[37:03] he was believed to be operating, and flock was used to determine that that vehicle had

[37:07] hit on a camera in Green Bay, City of Green Bay also has flocked cameras.

[37:11] The vehicle was entered as stolen with caution indicators to the homicide offense.

[37:16] Had the vehicle passed any flocked cameras after that point, police would have been alerted

[37:20] to that vehicle passing that camera and where it was.

[37:24] Investigators were able to coordinate with the Green Bay Police Department who quickly

[37:27] located the vehicle in the neighborhood where it had passed the flat camera.

[37:31] The vehicle was impounded and that preserves any potential evidence and also removes an

[37:36] option for the suspect to continue to evade apprehension using that particular vehicle.

[37:41] The location of the vehicle opened up the door to other investigative leads within that

[37:45] neighborhood that led to the location of the suspect and he was taken into custody five

[37:48] days after the initial offense on 1120 of 22.

[37:55] In June of 2025, APD investigators began a sexual assault investigation involving a child

[38:01] victim.

[38:02] Investigators identified the suspect but had not been able to locate him.

[38:07] Investigators from APD Special Investigations Unit began canvassing bars and restaurants,

[38:11] contacting no associates of the suspect and were able to come up with a license plate for

[38:15] a vehicle that he was believed to be operating.

[38:18] Our crime analyst was able to enter that plate into flock, was able to use traditional

[38:23] cameras after locating the vehicle on a flock camera to track the suspect vehicle and our

[38:28] investigators were unable to provide surveillance on that vehicle. While they were surveilling

[38:33] the vehicle, the suspect entered the vehicle and was able to be taken into custody, and

[38:38] at the time of being taken into custody, he had a very large amount of cash on his person,

[38:43] and it was suggested that he was planning on fleeing the country. And so that kind of highlights

[38:47] the timeliness with which sometimes we need to operate to hold offenders accountable.

[38:55] Now, I'll kind of dip into some of the more everyday uses of this.

[39:00] On 11-5 of 25, Officer Christensen was dispatched to the Red Parking Ramp for a hit and run accident.

[39:06] Victims vehicle was unoccupied at the time of the crash.

[39:08] There was no suspect known, and it appeared as if the classic someone backed out from the

[39:14] stall across the room and hit the victim's car and then left.

[39:18] Officer Christensen was able to view CCTV footage from the parking ramp exit and noticed

[39:24] a couple of cars with rear end damage leaving the ramp around the time of the crash. Officer

[39:29] Christensen was then able to utilize flock cameras to find that those vehicles had the same

[39:35] damage prior to the crash and could have been suspects. Without that use of flock cameras,

[39:40] Officer Christensen would have had to spend valuable time tracking down the owners of each one

[39:44] of those vehicles only to find out that they weren't involved in the crash. So if they time saver

[39:48] in that capacity, the case went unsolved, but it kind of highlights eliminating people that suspects

[39:53] as well using the information that we're able to obtain.

[39:59] And then the...

[40:00] With an final case study, and I've got a number, you know, I could go on and on about flock successes, but I had to limit it for time purposes. I could keep you here all night. But on Christmas Eve, Officer Looker received a flock alert regarding a vehicle that was frequently operated by a suspect with a warrant for battery and disorderly conduct. Appleton officers had created a hot list alert as they had not had success in locating this individual. Officer Looker was able to respond quickly to the area where the flock vehicle had passed the camera and had alerted.

[40:28] locate the suspect vehicle and observe the suspect driving.

[40:33] She conducted a traffic stop on that vehicle and was able to take the suspect into custody for his warrant without any kind of incident.

[40:40] He was also cited for operating with a suspended driver's license at the time.

[40:46] So that's what I've got for my presentation.

[40:48] I would like to open it up to Kristen McLeod in case she's got any additional comments to add before we open it up to you for questions.

[40:59] Thank you so much. Good evening, committee. Thank you so much for your time this evening and opportunity to join you.

[41:07] I think Captain Wallace did an excellent job really showcasing what the system does and what it doesn't do.

[41:15] And I'm more than happy to help answer any questions that you may have. And thank you again for the opportunity.

[41:23] Let's start with committee, and then don't worry, I didn't forget about public participation.

[41:28] We'll start with the committee, though, all their hard time.

[41:31] Thank you, Chair.

[41:33] Captain Walsh, this probably sounds silly, but I don't work with these every day.

[41:38] So can you just give me an example of, like, one way that you would use flocks?

[41:47] So say, for example, you know the license plate of something that occurred.

[41:50] How is it a database that gets searched or how?

[41:54] Yeah, so oftentimes I'll just provide like a case example and we'll say you're driving

[42:00] home from this meeting tonight and your car gets re-rended and the person who re-rends

[42:04] your vehicle takes off from the scene. You call the police because that's the right thing to do.

[42:10] You've got a description of the vehicle. Say red Chevy Silverado and we can go back in

[42:20] vehicle and got the first three plate numbers, right?

[42:22] So AVW will say, we're the first three letters on that license plate.

[42:28] We can go back into flock.

[42:29] You give us a direction that the vehicle was last seen going.

[42:31] We can search that partial plate even in flock and say, okay, this vehicle hit on these cameras

[42:37] and now we'll go, okay, well, maybe does it match a Chevy Silverado?

[42:40] We've got a Silverado there.

[42:42] Maybe even if it's after the fact, maybe we'll be able to even see some damage on that vehicle

[42:47] that further supports that case.

[42:48] Thanks.

[42:49] Thank you.

[42:49] That helps a lot.

[42:52] Other Fenton.

[42:53] Thank you, Chair.

[42:54] First of all, this presentation I think was as a result of an email that I sent to the

[43:01] chief just a couple, really a couple of weeks ago.

[43:05] And at that time, because I had had questions from my constituents related to the incident in

[43:13] and Manasha, and I just asked if we could at some future safety and licensing committee

[43:21] meeting have a presentation about Appleton's use of the plot cameras, and Chief Olson

[43:27] answered me, I think the very next day and said, yes, we could do this at the next meeting.

[43:32] And so I wanted to thank the chief and the department for putting all this information together,

[43:39] and also for just immediate answers to questions that Alder, Van Zeland, and I have sent after we saw the presentation, so grateful for that, grateful for directing me to where some of the policies are found in public facing websites, but I do have a question.

[44:01] So, we're talking about the authorization and the, could you Captain Wallace elaborate

[44:12] on the procedure?

[44:13] So, let's go with Alder Hardt's time example of the hit-and-run accident.

[44:17] Let's not have my car hit.

[44:19] Okay.

[44:20] So, you can let it be mine.

[44:22] Okay, so what are the requirements for either, you said the sworn officer or somebody?

[44:33] And so what are the requirements?

[44:35] Does there have to be a case number?

[44:38] Does there have to be an incident number of some kind?

[44:41] What information is required to initiate a search of the data?

[44:47] We do require a case number.

[44:49] Also, flock requires.

[44:50] It's a niverse number.

[44:52] It's a reporting thing that essentially designates what type of case we are investigating.

[44:58] And we use it for

[45:00] There are a lot of different cases, and I highlighted that in the examples, but we do require a case number to be entered when we audit as we can track it back and find the why behind the search. If we're using it similarly for retail theft, you could go back. There'll be a case number that's associated with that search that would then correspond to our CAD screen for that retail theft, which then corresponds with the subsequent report that the officer would make for that investigation. May I follow up?

[45:27] So, sure, but I do just after this I just want to remind us we're going to focus on questions hopefully for the FLAQ representative so that we can also have the public provide their input but please go ahead and finish.

[45:41] I promise. So the case numbers required does the officer is what identification is the officer

[45:54] or the crime analyst required to enter a badge number or anything to show who is doing

[46:00] the request?

[46:01] Okay, so yeah, that comes with, so when I log into flock, it requires two factor authentication

[46:06] to prove it's me. So I have a unique username password and then it sends the file

[46:11] follow-up text to my phone so that it verifies that yes, it's me that's using the system.

[46:16] And then when I do a search in that, that information is logged under my name as I conducted

[46:21] the search for that information.

[46:23] Okay.

[46:24] All right.

[46:24] I will yield so that we can take care of that.

[46:27] Thank you, Chair.

[46:28] I actually did have a question for the FLAQ representative and then I do see you, Alder Smith.

[46:33] In the information on the FLAQ website, it says FLAQ never shares data on its own.

[46:39] All data sharing relationships are explicitly configured and visible to the customer.

[46:44] The customer may limit, revoke, or deny data access.

[46:49] But then later, it does say something that made me a little confused that Flock can provide certain data.

[46:59] So could the representative from Flock address what information, what do you mean by data, first of all?

[47:06] And what information resides with the police department,

[47:11] and is there any information that does reside with Flock?

[47:14] Yes, thank you so much for that question.

[47:17] Happy to provide clarification there.

[47:19] So all of the data we're referring to is all of the images

[47:23] and associated metadata that are collected

[47:27] by your camera network.

[47:29] So cameras that are located within your community.

[47:33] And all of that data that is collected

[47:35] is owned by the city of Appleton and that means that the city and through the police department and their administration of the system, you all have the sharing controls.

[47:48] Flock will never share your data without your express consent unless we are legally required to do so.

[47:57] So if we receive a valid subpoena for that information, what we would do in that instance would

[48:06] be to notify you first because that is your data. And then we would work with you and your city legal

[48:13] team to address that response. But flock does not have a general right of access to your data.

[48:19] In your contract, it specifies very specific instances where we would be legally compelled

[48:27] to release your information, but you all have full control of those data sharing settings.

[48:34] There are no default data sharing settings, so you all are able to determine which other

[48:40] law enforcement agencies, if any, you would like to share your camera network data with.

[48:45] and you can adjust those sharing settings as needed.

[48:51] Those can be revoked at any time.

[48:52] Again, that is fully within the control

[48:55] of the city via the police department.

[48:58] And thank you.

[48:59] What are some of the examples of what it has

[49:03] in the contract, regard to sharing,

[49:06] where Flockwood would get involved?

[49:08] Would it always be initiated by the judiciary?

[49:13] That would be that we go by them trying to pull up the terms and conditions to get the exact

[49:20] verbiage, but it's the the court's definition of reasonably necessary.

[49:29] Thank you. All there Smith, did you want to go ahead?

[49:32] Is that number 12? Yes.

[49:34] Okay.

[49:35] Thank you, Officer Wallace, for the presentation.

[49:37] I think my question will also probably be to Christian McLeod.

[49:42] But my question is about we have the flock safety cameras and they are license plate readers.

[49:51] But is that something and that it's specifically not facial recognition or tracking of people?

[49:56] Is that something that could at some point be turned on, that we have-

[50:00] That we are only doing the license plate readers or is that just kind of a natural limitation of the system? Sure. Yes. The great question. So we do not utilize facial recognition with any of our products. And if that were to ever come about, that would be something that really goes beyond the scope of the product that you use in the contract for. So we would, that would be something that

[50:29] But we would take to the customer first and that would be a decision that the city would have to make to implement that technology.

[50:40] Okay, so at this point, this is, but that isn't something that flock offers now or it is something the flock offers on, on you, in no do not offer a facial recognition, okay, so ever.

[50:54] Okay, thank you. And then just follow up, there's other cities and there's more and more cities that are using this technology.

[51:00] And those have substantially the same system.

[51:03] There's our license plate reading systems as well.

[51:07] There's not vastly different powers or anything like that that is,

[51:13] that different cities are using or purchasing.

[51:17] We have different, so we do have different offerings,

[51:22] so in some enhancements with the software that support investigative functions.

[51:27] but the license plate readers do essentially function the same in each city.

[51:33] Okay, that's the core product, is that license plate side?

[51:37] Yes.

[51:38] Okay, yes.

[51:38] Thank you.

[51:40] I have just one final question for Ms. McLeod.

[51:44] So we have had a situation, are you familiar with the situation with the officer in Manasha who accessed the flock cameras for a personal reason?

[51:55] Yes. Okay. So in reading out a little bit more on the

[52:01] FOX system, it doesn't appear that this is the first time that something like that has occurred.

[52:07] So what steps are FOX taking to ensure that these types of things can't happen in the future?

[52:15] Yes, and so glad you asked that. So we are very committed to supporting

[52:20] departments with compliance and accountability efforts. With the auditing functions in place,

[52:29] we do encourage every single city to implement consistent recurring auditing practices.

[52:35] In addition to that, I believe it's either at the end of this quarter or next quarter,

[52:41] we are coming out with an alert feature. So any anomaly of a search within the system,

[52:48] That will trigger an alert to the administrators of the flock system to say these search or searches are out of the norm and you may want to look into this further.

[53:03] So again, being able to provide a proactive approach to those auditing features is we're very happy to support that.

[53:13] Can you give me an example of what an anomaly would look like?

[53:17] Yeah so one of them it would be if a search is performed by a user say after after hours beyond that that person's typical shift that would that would trigger an alert or

[53:32] and that's from a learned pattern you learn the pattern of that officer using flack and then you can tell that they were using it outside of that timeframe.

[53:42] That I'm not sure on the specifics on how we're configuring that, but I can certainly

[53:47] get more information and get back to you on that.

[53:51] And another example would be repeated searches for the same vehicle.

[53:57] Okay.

[53:58] That's helpful.

[53:59] Thank you.

[54:01] Alder, Schultz is your question for Ms. McCawd?

[54:08] Okay.

[54:08] And just make sure you speak into the microphone so they can hear you on Zoom.

[54:14] Okay. Thank you, Chair. I think the incident in Monash is certain to have some of us questioning

[54:22] the accountability side of this. And I've had some exchanges with police chief and trying

[54:27] to get my head wrapped around this a little bit too, about the sort of log in, capture of log in data,

[54:35] and essentially the reasons for those searches. And I pulled up the Uptown Police Department,

[54:40] The government pulled up the Uptown Police Department policy manual for ALPR and 424.3 sub B, which is ALPR operations, as an ALPR may be used in conjunction with any patrol operation or official department investigation, and then it says reasonable suspicion or probable causes.

[55:00] Not necessary before using any LPR. And I'll come back to that as I think I want to ask chief if there are many incidents is where there hasn't been reasonable suspicion of probable cause, but the system's been used by police as an investigative tool. And the second one, data collection retention, data may be gathered, maintained by the part, maybe used and shared with prosecutors or others only as permitted by law. Well, that's kind of a, that's a rather wide

[55:30] allowance, I think there are a lot of tolerable uses that could fall within that definition.

[55:36] But I guess I want to drill down a little bit deeper into sort of the login process

[55:42] in the searches, because according to this policy, this is sub-C of the safeguards.

[55:51] All ALPR searches shall have an associated incident number or unique search reason, entered

[55:56] in the search reason or look-up reason.

[55:58] It doesn't specify that there is actually a field

[56:02] where you're answering an incident number or a case number.

[56:06] To me, it sounds like, and this is potentially why it has seen some abuses

[56:11] by officers over time, that the only field required is something to input

[56:17] into a search reason or look-up reason reason.

[56:21] There have been incidents, or at least reported incidents of, in one case,

[56:25] up to a thousand uses of the system with just investigation as the reason, which is a rather broad

[56:33] reason to be looking to that many cases, developing really specific. So I just want to

[56:39] be certain that, and I'm hearing that it is, but I want to be certain that anybody uses this

[56:45] system in Appleton is clearly using it with an incident number, which it sounds like we are,

[56:52] And that the reasons are being reviewed.

[56:56] If I could just, I think what I'll do is I'll take you have a two-part question, so there will be a question for Chief Olson that we'll get to in a second, but what I also heard from you was you wondering about the field that somebody needs to enter in order to access information.

[57:17] and if you could speak to that Ms. McLeod, what type of information can it be set that a certain

[57:27] type of character needs to be put into that or can they just simply type investigation?

[57:33] It sounds like some places have been set that way. Are there ways to restrict that further?

[57:40] Yes, so I'm glad you asked that question as well. A couple months ago, FLOC implemented.

[57:46] So previously, a search reason was always required, but like you said, there were many communities

[57:52] and agencies recognized that with an open text search field and some vague search reasons

[58:00] were provided. There was a need for more clarity as far as use of the system. And so,

[58:07] we walk as implemented, there is a required which sort of takes the place of that open text field.

[58:15] Now, when a user logs on and is conducting a search of the system, they must select from a drop-down menu a list of offense types that is based on neighbors and with feedback from our customers.

[58:30] So, the user would have to select a specific offense type from this drop-down menu, and then agencies may also choose to require an incident or case number, as well as they have the option to provide additional context via a text box.

[58:53] So, our intention with requiring this offense type drop down was to eliminate those that vagueness in those searches that you had mentioned.

[59:06] Thank you. Did that answer the first part of your question?

[59:09] That answer the first one makes me feel a little bit better about at least that problematic situation, which sounds like it's being remedied.

[59:18] And certainly, at least from what I'm hearing from APD,

[59:21] they're on top of it.

[59:24] Any other questions for Ms. McClub before I open

[59:27] this up to public participation, other Fenden?

[59:30] Thank you, and I promise it'll be short.

[59:33] First, thank you, Ms. McClub, for being with us

[59:36] and helping us out with this.

[59:38] I know it's the complicated technology,

[59:40] so your input is greatly appreciated.

[59:44] My question is, these cameras are marketed to private entities as well.

[59:50] I understand that they're sold to homeowners associations, private businesses.

[59:56] Clearly, those entities can share with law enforcement.

[1:00:18] Thank you for that question as well. So, the, that it is one way sharing and meaning private entities, commercial businesses, and H.O.A.s,

[1:00:29] It may choose to share their camera network data with law enforcement, however, it cannot

[1:00:38] work in reverse.

[1:00:40] No government or city camera network data is shared with any private entity.

[1:00:46] No hot list information, no sensitive information can be shared with private entities.

[1:00:52] There is a very distinct separation within the system.

[1:00:56] Thank you.

[1:00:56] And they can share with law enforcement, is there any sort of restriction on them?

[1:01:06] The local private group can share with, I mean, can they share with any police department?

[1:01:17] So each customer owns their network, their camera network, typically the commercial businesses

[1:01:25] is share with their local law enforcement in regional,

[1:01:29] but because it is their data,

[1:01:31] they own to share with enforcement agencies

[1:01:34] that are flocked customers.

[1:01:37] Or they potentially could share

[1:01:39] with non- flocked customers as well,

[1:01:42] but because each customer owns their data 100%,

[1:01:45] that is up to each customer.

[1:01:48] Okay, thank you.

[1:01:50] All their mouth, sir?

[1:01:53] Thank you.

[1:01:53] District two.

[1:01:55] Thank you. So, at one point, I was told by someone during a demonstration that flock

[1:02:04] cameras can write in this, even though they don't have facial recognition in the same

[1:02:09] way that they can track bumper stickers and damage on vehicles, they can also track

[1:02:14] unique characteristics of individuals in the vehicles. So, I would just like to hear from

[1:02:21] Kristen, as someone misunderstood why was I told that?

[1:02:26] System only focuses on vehicle details.

[1:02:29] There is no way to search the floccale pair system for a person or any personal character.

[1:02:36] Thank you.

[1:02:39] I do have a couple more questions.

[1:02:41] I'm just going to try to filter out the ones that are for the police chief.

[1:02:44] It's my understanding.

[1:02:45] We'll be asking those later.

[1:02:47] Or like a demonstration mode or something like that where someone who has access to the

[1:02:54] flock system could turn off the need to enter a case number, turn off the need to provide

[1:03:01] a search reason, is that something that the system permits?

[1:03:09] So your flock, the police department, your flock administrators can require a case number be entered or they can not require that a case number be entered.

[1:03:22] But there is no way to turn off the requirement for that offense type link to that.

[1:03:28] Thank you, then if we have a policy to only retain data for 30 days, would other cities

[1:03:40] perhaps have access to our data who have a different policy, let's say 90 days or something

[1:03:45] like that, would our data that we own and then delete after 30 days would they be able to

[1:03:52] access it and then retain it for some indefinite period where we don't actually know how long they're retaining it for.

[1:04:02] Great question. So they would have to download the image, the data prior to the 30-day mark and retain that.

[1:04:12] That event of that download is logged and your agency can see if that information was downloaded.

[1:04:24] Okay.

[1:04:25] And then is data sharing among

[1:05:00] Is that all mutual? Like, we can only see their data if we're also sharing it with them, or how exactly is that set up? Yes, another great question. So it is all at your discretion. There are some agencies that choose to not share their camera network data externally, but they do have, you know, neighboring law enforcement or within the state or even nationally that will share their

[1:05:29] camera network with that agency, so it's completely customizable. But it doesn't mean if you are

[1:05:38] sharing, it's not automatically reciprocal unless, and Captain Wallace, you can help me out. And

[1:05:48] if I remember correctly, if you're, if you all are participating in the Wisconsin state lookup tool.

[1:05:58] I can speak to that a little bit.

[1:06:00] Appleton shares our data with state of Wisconsin law enforcement agencies.

[1:06:06] We do have access.

[1:06:08] We have been granted permission by other agencies throughout the country, and they vary

[1:06:12] from state to state, but other agencies have given us access to their cameras from out of

[1:06:16] state as well.

[1:06:19] Thank you.

[1:06:20] And that's through a request, similar to how we ask people to request data, or is it just open-ended?

[1:06:30] So, it goes kind of both ways. We can request from an agency, or occasionally I'll get an email, I believe this says,

[1:06:37] this agency wants to share information with you. And if we click OK, well then we can access their data as well.

[1:06:45] But you're still following what processes are you following to request that data?

[1:06:50] Are you entering an offense for a specific?

[1:06:55] Yeah.

[1:06:55] Any search that we conduct throughout the system has the same, we fall under our policy all

[1:07:00] the time.

[1:07:01] So we fall under the case number, the neighbors code, that's the policy that we fall under

[1:07:06] to conduct a search.

[1:07:07] Whether we're searching camera system that's in Missouri or a camera system here, we're accessing

[1:07:13] seen flock under our set of prescribed rules and regulations.

[1:07:17] And vice versa.

[1:07:19] So if one of those outside entities wants to access it, they're typing in the same information

[1:07:24] that we require of our officers.

[1:07:27] I wouldn't be able to speak on the other agencies.

[1:07:30] They'd be under their agency's policy for help or use.

[1:07:33] But if I could add at minimum, they would have to select the offense type.

[1:07:39] Okay.

[1:07:40] Thank you.

[1:07:42] I saw, did you have any other questions, Alder Meltzer?

[1:07:47] No, thank you.

[1:07:48] Okay.

[1:07:48] Alder, Schultz, I saw.

[1:07:50] Was there anybody else that I missed who hasn't gone yet?

[1:07:54] Okay.

[1:07:54] And then if you wanted to go ahead and then I'd like to turn this over to the folks who are weight patient.

[1:07:59] Sure.

[1:08:00] Yep. No, that's totally fine.

[1:08:02] I guess just following that conversation there and trying to understand how many times

[1:08:09] data is accessed from outside of the agency versus within, so if we have 20

[1:08:15] cameras and we're capturing data, and our APD uses it to track stuff locally.

[1:08:22] Can you give me a sense, Kristen, about how often that same data is being

[1:08:27] accessed by requests from outside of Appleton? Someone in Kentucky, license plate was

[1:08:33] reported to go to Appleton, so we're going to check to see if that license plate

[1:08:37] showed up in Appleton. I guess I'm trying to get a sense of how often it's used locally

[1:08:42] and then sort of non-locally that same access data is accessed.

[1:08:48] I'll just put it like this, I think this might be helpful. So I saw that there is a transparency

[1:08:53] site that shows which outside locations have asked or shared data with the Appleton Police

[1:09:01] department and if I understand what Aldersholtz is trying to ask, he's trying to ask if how we are tracking their requests.

[1:09:13] How often they're requesting, is that information that that flock provides, are there alerts, are there notifications to the Appleton Police Department?

[1:09:24] Is that along the lines of what you're asking?

[1:09:26] Yeah, similar, I mean, I can give you a little bit more to go on.

[1:09:31] We have this transparency site which, because here's the numbers unique vehicles detected in the last 30 days is 295,000 hot list hits in the last 30 days is 5,682 and then searches in the last 30 days is 385.

[1:09:46] I can't imagine that that's all searches, hotness hits, things that are happening in our community.

[1:09:52] That's obviously numbers generated from the entire system, but access to the Appleton data.

[1:09:59] Yes, so could you?

[1:10:00] Talk about the information that's on that transparency site and where those numbers and that data comes from, please. Yes, yes. And to add, um, each query of the Appleton's camera network. So whether that's conducted by internally by your officers, by your police department staff, or externally by users that Appleton PD has granted.

[1:10:29] sharing access to, all of those searches are logged and recorded. And Captain Wallace,

[1:10:38] he can show the network audit and the organization audit will show that

[1:10:44] information as far as, you know, when you started sharing with a certain

[1:10:49] external agency and search information related to any external searches conducted

[1:10:58] conducted that included the Appleton camera network.

[1:11:02] And then as far as the transparency portal,

[1:11:06] so yep, it's a public-facing, block-generated web page,

[1:11:10] the organizations that has a full listing

[1:11:13] of all of the external agencies that your department has

[1:11:19] granted sharing access to.

[1:11:23] And the searches conducted in the last 30 days

[1:11:28] that I believe and I will confirm this, those include external searches as well, but I will

[1:11:39] confirm that because they, for some reason, I just want to make sure that I'm giving you the

[1:11:44] correct information that the searches conducted in the last 30 days does include external agencies

[1:11:50] and not just internal, but I can certainly show that that follow up with chief.

[1:11:55] That would be great if you're able to provide something that gives more information on the different types of data that are listed on this site that would be great.

[1:12:09] So the hot list hits searches, for example, that would be appreciated.

[1:12:15] Absolutely.

[1:12:17] All right.

[1:12:17] Anybody else before we hear from the public?

[1:12:22] All right.

[1:12:23] Folks.

[1:12:24] So anyone who is here to speak today, I just to let you know you'll step up to the podium.

[1:12:29] You'll state your name and address for the record.

[1:12:32] It's not a back and forth.

[1:12:34] So if you have questions, feel free to state those questions.

[1:12:38] And then as a committee, we'll take up those questions with staff.

[1:12:43] And I just ask, I give everybody five minutes maximum and just keep in mind the comments

[1:12:51] that were made before, try to make them concise, I'd appreciate it.

[1:12:55] So who would like to step forward first?

[1:13:03] I'm Kathy Flores, I'm the city of Appleton resident.

[1:13:07] I've also been working in domestic violence for over 35 years.

[1:13:11] So my question, and I've worked with marginalized communities, so I have two questions and they're

[1:13:15] related to domestic violence and marginalized communities.

[1:13:19] So, you know, as you're, anybody that's aware about domestic violence knows that there's

[1:13:23] several studies around police officers and domestic violence stating anywhere from

[1:13:27] 28 to 40% of police officers are active domestic abusers.

[1:13:32] 28% is more like the local national average.

[1:13:37] 40% is hired and there's lots of reasons in the studies for that about stress and different

[1:13:42] things in control. But my question is related to the officer that we heard about recently.

[1:13:50] I'm more concerned about prevention than accountability afterward. So I want to ask what specifically

[1:13:58] the question is to staff in the Apple to Police Department domestic violence policy, what specifically

[1:14:05] Are you doing to prevent an officer stalking a survivor or their ex-partner, current partner?

[1:14:15] And what those parameters look like, so that's my question for staff.

[1:14:18] The other question I have is, does Appleton Police have a written binding policy that prohibits

[1:14:24] flock data from being used for civil immigration enforcement, including indirect access through

[1:14:31] other agencies that do not share with ICE?

[1:14:33] case. So what does that look like? And just concerned about that whole, like Lucy Goosey

[1:14:41] around domestic violence, what do we know about, let's just say Wapaka. Wapaka might have

[1:14:48] somebody using FLOC for purposes of domestic violence through Appleton Police Department.

[1:14:55] And what are the prevention, preventative things?

[1:14:59] I know the

[1:15:00] But there's accountability around this, but what's the prevention? Thank you. Thank you. Chief, did you want to take those questions right away? Or did you want to wait until after public participation? Let me try. Okay. So the question was, what are we doing to prevent misuse, especially in the case of domestic violence? And then if you could address the policies that we have about sharing with federal agencies or agencies that share with federal agencies?

[1:15:31] So, as far as the domestic policy is concerned in prevention, I mean like everything, we try

[1:15:40] to do everything we can do to prevent certainly those types of crimes from happening, we take

[1:15:45] them very seriously.

[1:15:47] I also understand your perspective that handling it after it already happens is one part

[1:15:54] of it and prevention is certainly another part of it.

[1:15:58] I can only speak to what we do in Appleton to prevent things from happening, including

[1:16:06] a very robust set of rules and regulations that our officers are expected to abide by,

[1:16:14] as well as swift consequences and accountability if they don't abide by those rules and regulations.

[1:16:21] We also spend probably more time than most of our other partner agencies when it comes

[1:16:32] to doing background investigations.

[1:16:35] We polygraph all of our candidates before they're hired.

[1:16:38] They all go through a psychological evaluation before they're hired.

[1:16:44] And we take our hiring practices very, very seriously, ensuring that we do the best that

[1:16:53] we can to try to, again, find people that embrace our core values and that don't engage

[1:17:01] in that type of violence.

[1:17:05] Of course, once they're hired things can change.

[1:17:09] We all understand that.

[1:17:11] However, I think that by putting all of those types of things in place on the front end,

[1:17:16] at least gives us kind of a leg up on ensuring that the people that we hire are good people

[1:17:23] that hopefully will make good choices and if they don't, again, there's swift accountability

[1:17:30] that happens.

[1:17:31] Now, as far as the use of the FOX system in prevention, as far as what other agencies

[1:17:40] do in their policies, I don't have any control over that.

[1:17:46] Those are risks that are going to be involved in any time you have any kind of data, whether

[1:17:50] it's FOC or other types of programs that we have out there.

[1:17:54] What I can say that is we have put in our policy and practices in place now that

[1:18:02] flock has also tightened up their practices, that there has to be an incident number that

[1:18:07] goes into that search capability, without getting into specifics on the case that kind of generated

[1:18:15] all of this interest, that wasn't the case.

[1:18:17] And so, you could just put in there, say, welfare check or investigative purposes, drugs, that type of thing without an incident number and you could do a search.

[1:18:32] So, it is possible to, again, some of those practices have since been tightened up.

[1:18:39] And I think that that is going to take a huge step towards preventing this type of thing from happening again.

[1:18:48] Could you just speak a little bit further on that?

[1:18:52] So if someone puts in an incident number, let's say I put in one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,

[1:18:56] I put it in and what an incident number looks like for the police department.

[1:19:00] Is there anybody checking that information against an actual incident number

[1:19:05] to ensure that there is actually an incident number that exists.

[1:19:11] Correct. There's no way from a resource management perspective that we would go down and be able to check every single incident number consistently.

[1:19:20] However, like we do when we audit many of the programs that we have supervisors do, for example, our axon body cameras.

[1:19:29] We have auditing features in there to ensure that officers are turning those on every time

[1:19:34] they have interactions with the public and that they are following our policy.

[1:19:39] They also periodically review video to see how our interactions in the public are going

[1:19:43] and how, you know, that they're appropriate and what we expect from our officers on our

[1:19:47] staff.

[1:19:48] So along the same lines, they go through and we randomly pick those incidents and then

[1:19:56] and we can research those to ensure that it was

[1:20:06] Okay, I think I see an opportunity there, especially with AI, checking just numbers. If that's something

[1:20:15] that the department would be open to, I think that would eliminate a lot of concern that our

[1:20:23] constituents are having as well as the folks who are here. I can just add to that.

[1:20:29] But we are very much open to tightening up any practices we have.

[1:20:35] If it means adding of language into our policy, if that helps people feel better about

[1:20:41] what's happening, we are more than happy to address some of those concerns.

[1:20:46] And certainly, we continue to explore AI and looking for opportunities to again utilize that

[1:20:53] tool in there are a lot of different resources out there that we would be happy to again purchase

[1:21:02] but all of that does come with a cost. So thank you.

[1:21:08] Maybe because you have somebody else

[1:21:10] ask it because if you heard your time or go off. Well I know that one of the additional questions

[1:21:16] that was asked was around basically our sharing with federal authorities and we only share with

[1:21:24] with any agencies outside the state.

[1:21:27] The transparency portal does show every agency

[1:21:30] that we share our data with.

[1:21:32] Now, to your question, is there a chance

[1:21:34] that, you know, just same-aggression authorities

[1:21:37] access as somebody else's,

[1:21:40] are our data through another department,

[1:21:42] or I think that was one of the questions that was asked?

[1:21:45] I'm not exactly sure how they would do that,

[1:21:48] or what benefit it would serve them.

[1:21:49] I mean, this is an isolated license plate at an intersection at a point in time.

[1:21:59] It doesn't involve any people.

[1:22:01] It doesn't, it's not searchable in that way.

[1:22:03] So even if that is a possibility, I guess I'm not really sure how useful it would be

[1:22:08] to them.

[1:22:09] If I could just give you an example, let's just say that the license plate reader is capturing

[1:22:14] people coming and going from Houdini Plaza the other day.

[1:22:19] So there are folks who are protesting something like that.

[1:22:23] So I think that is, that's what I'm hearing from my constituents that the concern is

[1:22:28] about, you know, sensitive activities that they don't want that information shared with

[1:22:35] other agencies.

[1:22:38] So if I understood you correctly, though, so I guess maybe I don't understand the process

[1:22:45] very well of let's just say that we'll call this other police agency wants to access information

[1:22:55] from our cameras, our readers. Do they have to say, you know, between this time and this time,

[1:23:04] like what does a search look like? I think I'm having trouble really understanding what it is they can

[1:23:11] and ask you for, but you seem very confident that they wouldn't need it.

[1:23:15] So maybe if you could just give us more information about what a search looks like.

[1:23:20] What are they asking you for specifically?

[1:23:23] I'm actually going to let Captain Wallace answer that question.

[1:23:26] Thank you.

[1:23:31] All right.

[1:23:31] I'll try and answer your question as best as I can.

[1:23:33] So the search criteria, you can look for, and to put it in perspective from the camera's

[1:23:40] view.

[1:23:41] We literally capture a, in order to capture a vehicle license plate, the picture is fairly zoomed in to enable it to be legible.

[1:23:50] So like your Houdini Plaza example isn't really plausible because it's not this wide angle view of people and all these things.

[1:23:57] So it captures an image of the license plate.

[1:23:59] We can also search by certain vehicle characteristics,

[1:24:03] and I would put that like, if a vehicle had a large sticker

[1:24:08] on the right rear fender area, like we could search

[1:24:13] that criteria for vehicles fitting that criteria.

[1:24:17] But the image isn't similar to what you'd see

[1:24:19] from a traffic camera perspective,

[1:24:21] where it's this broad zoomed-out image.

[1:24:23] It's literally like the back of a car in a piece of roadway.

[1:24:26] That's all we see.

[1:24:28] We can also search by full license plate, partial license plate, and so when you search by

[1:24:34] partial license plate, obviously there's a lot of cars out there that have the same characteristics

[1:24:39] within their same license plate. So you get a bunch of matches and that's where the witness

[1:24:42] information, as I brought up in the hit and run example, that's where the witness information becomes

[1:24:47] valuable to us of, well now I have a picture of a Nissan and I'm looking for a Chevy. That one clearly

[1:24:52] isn't my vehicle. Does that explain it a little bit?

[1:24:56] So you have to have like a plate number and you'd have

[1:25:07] So when we conduct a search, you can set parameters based on, do I want to search all the cameras I have access to, which for us, we have a large number throughout the nation that we have access to. You can narrow that to our local network of cameras. You can further narrow that I believe to just an individual camera. If I knew that the suspect vehicle went through

[1:25:29] college enrichment as an example, I could think I could specifically narrow down that I just want

[1:25:35] to see college enrichment between this time and this time and search for this vehicle plate.

[1:25:41] So you have to have a you have to have a plate to get started. You're not like looking at

[1:25:45] the intersection at a certain time and then it's returning to you a number of plates.

[1:25:50] You have to have some type of characteristic that you're searching for. Like I could probably search

[1:25:56] by vehicle type, I believe.

[1:26:00] So you could say I want all of the Jeep Cherokees or something like that, but it wouldn't return

[1:26:05] to you every vehicle plate that was in the vicinity of that camera.

[1:26:13] Correct.

[1:26:13] Okay.

[1:26:14] That's more helpful, I think, as we go further in this discussion, thank you.

[1:26:18] So I'm going to let the public continue so whoever else would like to step up, yeah, we'll

[1:26:28] come back. Let's let everybody speak, please.

[1:26:33] So state your name and address for the

[1:26:35] record, please.

[1:26:35] Good evening, Carla Hayles, City of Appleton resident. I have a follow up question in regards to

[1:26:40] Kathy Flores' question. And what we would like to know is if there is anything in place or

[1:26:49] how is there not something in place that we don't have the ability to cross-check a real

[1:26:55] case number versus a fake case number in real time as it would be entered into a flock.

[1:27:04] And personally, I'm very concerned when it comes to regional and interagency collaboration

[1:27:11] and that APD would not be able to hold other law enforcement agencies to the same standards

[1:27:17] As our own police department, there are many departments that are very problematic around civil rights, and it's very concerning to me that there is no way for you to supervise that those civil rights aren't being violated in another department.

[1:27:34] Thank you.

[1:27:36] Thank you.

[1:27:36] Did you want to add anything there?

[1:27:39] I mean, I know that we just talked about you being open to looking at other ways to

[1:27:44] check.

[1:27:46] I guess a regional and injury agency collaboration.

[1:27:51] Did you have anything to add?

[1:27:54] Director Wanigan.

[1:27:56] I think the only thing I want to add just to reiterate, again, what Captain Wallace just

[1:28:03] explained that somebody is limited to license plate information.

[1:28:11] So when you talk about civil liberties and violating civil liberties and things along

[1:28:18] those lines, I just want to keep things in perspective for the group that's in here.

[1:28:26] We're not sharing personal information through this system.

[1:28:30] So somebody can't put in my name and look for license plates or cars belonging specifically

[1:28:35] to me.

[1:28:36] That's not how this system works.

[1:28:40] So I don't have the same concerns.

[1:28:43] I think that others do.

[1:28:45] I respect that they have those concerns, but I don't know that there's anything that we

[1:28:50] can do here at the applicant police department to tighten up again how other agencies use the

[1:28:57] license plate data that they might get if they do a search of a car with license plate ATZ and it

[1:29:06] happens to come back that it went through one of our license plate readers 15 days ago.

[1:29:12] Okay, I think what may possibly be helpful because as an older person who is hearing from their

[1:29:23] constituents. I hear your example and that's very helpful. I think it would be helpful for

[1:29:29] us to be able to see what this process looks like and that will better help us decide what

[1:29:38] that information could be useful for and how it could be misused because I think there's a real

[1:29:44] misunderstanding amongst the non-users here of what kind of data can be used and the more you talk,

[1:29:52] the more it sounds to me, like, those are not concerns I need to have, but I'm still quite unsure so

[1:30:00] I think that that might be something that would be helpful. Thank you. And just so everyone is aware, the chief has been very open in my questions to really having this be the opening of a conversation. So I don't think anything that happens here is final tonight that I think hearing from you is really important. So who else would like to speak go ahead and approach the podium please. And then name and address for

[1:30:29] the record, please. Karen Iverson-Riggers, 1919 North Appleton Street. So in the presentation,

[1:30:36] it was cited that there are strong privacy safeguards, but the more I'm listening, the more

[1:30:42] I'm concerned, I was already concerned about privacy safeguards of data concerned about

[1:30:47] balancing, right, due process, constitutional rights with data and data being shared that

[1:30:55] you don't have control over. And so I'm just really concerned about the data sharing.

[1:31:00] I'm concerned about, you know, how that's shared with flock and flock stated. They will share

[1:31:06] their data if there is a legal request. And so we're seeing concern around those rights right now.

[1:31:17] So I don't have a lot of confidence around saying privacy and safety. So I feel this tension

[1:31:23] in between balancing privacy and safety,

[1:31:26] but really concerned about the data sharing

[1:31:30] and privacy protection.

[1:31:32] Thank you.

[1:31:33] We can look into that further.

[1:31:35] Can I make a comment?

[1:31:36] Oh, sure.

[1:31:36] Go ahead, thank you.

[1:31:39] Anybody in this room that owns a cell phone

[1:31:42] also is subjected to the same

[1:31:44] probably much more involved tracking

[1:31:48] if you wanna call it that, or sharing of data,

[1:31:51] then the flag system.

[1:31:53] The reason I say that is your cell phones track wherever you go, the calls you make.

[1:32:00] Verizon, if you have Verizon, and they receive a subpoena for records that's signed by a judge,

[1:32:07] they're compelled to turn over those records, including your location data.

[1:32:11] And that's what I understood, right, is that the things that were flocked

[1:32:16] is being asked to comply is with a judicial subpoena.

[1:32:20] correct. Okay. It's it's a court order that they have to comply with. Issued by a judge.

[1:32:28] Who else would like to speak? Go ahead and thank you. Sorry, thank you Chief. Go ahead.

[1:32:33] State your name and address for the record please. Hi everyone. My name is Frankie Gilboa. I'm a

[1:32:39] brother of Appleton. I was born in Appleton. Live in Appleton. I work in Appleton. I have a few

[1:32:47] questions. Thank you for sharing the presentation prior, and I was very helpful. I was able to review it.

[1:32:54] So the APD presentation on the role of flock camera states that the cameras do not track people.

[1:33:01] How do you define tracking given that officers can search a vehicle's movement across time and location

[1:33:07] using plate, color, or vehicle characteristics? And how is it possible that there is no personal

[1:33:12] identity shared and personal identity information shared in the flock system. When a license plate is

[1:33:19] connected to a car title, which is connected to a person's name, is that the last question that you have?

[1:33:26] Yeah, sorry. I have one more question. Okay, go ahead. No, I'm sorry. I was, it's not a back and forth.

[1:33:33] Yeah, sorry. I answered the question. Nope, that's okay. My next question, I've heard a lot of

[1:33:39] of mentions about the MNASHA incident, but I kind of wanted to quickly speak to the details

[1:33:48] of it because I think that it's an open investigation and it's not appropriate for an open meeting.

[1:33:56] Okay.

[1:33:57] I was only going to read a WBA article that I saw online.

[1:34:01] Could you maybe just distill it down to what your specific concern is?

[1:34:06] Yes.

[1:34:06] Yes, I'd be happy to do that.

[1:34:10] So this month, a menacea police officer was arrested for allegedly using the flock

[1:34:17] system to track his ex-girlfriend.

[1:34:20] He lived in Appleton.

[1:34:22] His ex-girlfriend made a criminal complaint to the Appleton police that he had used the

[1:34:27] flock system to monitor her location.

[1:34:30] A review of the police officer's activities showed that he tried to use it five different

[1:34:33] times to search for her vehicle.

[1:34:35] and he indicated that desperation bad judgment combined with a lack of sleep contributed to his decision to use Flock.

[1:34:43] Based on this article, we know that the victim of this incident reported it directly to the Appleton Police.

[1:34:49] The PowerPoint claims that this incident was a form of accountability and I want to ask all of you how that can really be so.

[1:34:56] When the victim was the one who brought that information to the victim,

[1:35:00] To your attention, and the police department did not flag it internally. It was not flagged

[1:35:06] by your internal auditing features they spoke of earlier. How can you ensure that Appleton

[1:35:14] police officers and other agencies do not misuse flag for personal reasons to stock civilians

[1:35:22] and their partners, and that this incident is not an isolated issue.

[1:35:28] Thank you.

[1:35:30] Chief, I know that this is an open investigation, so is there anything that you can add to the

[1:35:37] concerns that the citizen provided?

[1:35:42] Yes, so I can just add or reiterate that when this search was conducted by the City of

[1:35:49] National Police Officer, while he lives in Appleton, which is why it was Appleton's jurisdiction,

[1:35:57] that the requirement to put an incident number was not mandated by his department at that time,

[1:36:04] and that you could use some of those loose search parameters in the system.

[1:36:13] So the updated incident and then perhaps whatever as we work together we decide could possibly

[1:36:20] be you're open to looking for other ways that we can be preventative with the system.

[1:36:30] It's just that that wasn't in that wasn't in place at the time.

[1:36:35] That's my understanding.

[1:36:36] Okay. And then the other question was about if someone's looking for a license plate,

[1:36:46] you know, the DMV says, my license plate belongs to me. How do we address concerns about

[1:36:55] that kind of data being tied to a person when we're saying we're really only looking at license plates?

[1:37:02] So the license plates that we're looking at are obviously tied to like to your point registered owners of vehicles doesn't point us to whose operating vehicle at the time that the vehicle Michael through or pass that camera.

[1:37:17] So it still requires us to do an investigation to determine who would be operating a vehicle at the time that it went through whatever camera system that we're referring to in this case.

[1:37:32] Okay. And so those were the two questions that I had is anybody else want to speak or ask any questions if you could just approach the podium.

[1:37:41] We are running while over time this evening. And again, this is just an opening discussion. But if you could go ahead and state your name and address for the record, please.

[1:37:50] Karin Stoltenberg. I live in Appleton.

[1:37:58] I'm also trying to process all of the

[1:38:02] information that's been given today, but I guess I just want to know how

[1:38:10] information could be used to benefit ice, just plainly simply through

[1:38:20] Is that through subpoena?

[1:38:24] And do we have any safeguards in place for that? Like when I hear the word drop down, do we know what those categories are?

[1:38:37] And also who, if anyone independently audits these searches, or is that something that can be done independently?

[1:38:47] and will statistics about that misuse be reported publicly, who would that be reported to?

[1:39:00] Thank you.

[1:39:02] Chief, sure I can try to remember to answer all the questions here.

[1:39:07] So as far as the misuse is concerned, if there's misuse of the system, that would be a significant

[1:39:16] can policy violation that's handled like all policy violations with an internal investigation.

[1:39:22] Those internal investigations are subject to open records and people, a person could make

[1:39:28] a request. At times, the media does make occasional requests and we turn over all of our records

[1:39:35] as it relates to any internal investigations that we conduct.

[1:39:40] Again, if somebody violates this particular policy, the consequences would be significant.

[1:39:51] I can't say for certain what would happen, but likely that person would be facing termination

[1:39:57] or something, you know, very significant, like such a-

[1:40:01] As far as, how could ICE use our data? I myself have spent a lot of time certainly trying to think through different scenarios on how our data could be used. And essentially what it comes down to, that if, say ICE, because I know that's why specifically people are asking, they would have to have information about a vehicle.

[1:40:29] license play obviously that somebody is either has that vehicle registered to them or perhaps

[1:40:35] if they believe somebody was in a particular vehicle and then they would have to do a search

[1:40:41] of cameras based on that. However, they don't have access to our system, so I don't know if even

[1:40:50] Kristen can comment on that but they would have to somehow, I'm not exactly sure how they would

[1:40:56] get our data.

[1:40:58] Happy to jump in their chief.

[1:41:00] So ICE does not have access to the flock system.

[1:41:03] We do not have a contract with the Department of Homeland

[1:41:06] Security or any of their sub agencies.

[1:41:11] I would also like to flag, I think the question was

[1:41:14] with the drop down menu, those offense types.

[1:41:18] It does include one of those selections

[1:41:21] is immigration enforcement.

[1:41:23] Civil and one of them is immigration enforcement.

[1:41:26] criminal related. And Appleton has, we have a search flock has a search filter feature

[1:41:33] and any city, any community that is a flock customer can enable this filter and what the

[1:41:41] filter does is prevent any search whether internal by an internal department user or an external

[1:41:50] user whom Appleton has agreed to share

[1:41:53] camera network data with, it prevents

[1:41:55] any search related to immigration

[1:41:58] enforcement.

[1:42:01] Thank you.

[1:42:04] So, is this any of the questions?

[1:42:06] Is that something that we have?

[1:42:08] Do we have filters enabled for such

[1:42:11] things?

[1:42:11] Is that something that we have set up in our system?

[1:42:16] That's correct.

[1:42:17] I think it shows that on our transparency

[1:42:20] and support all that those searches would not, would be filtered out.

[1:42:27] Excellent.

[1:42:28] Is there anybody else in the public who wants to ask any questions or make any statements this evening?

[1:42:37] Okay, with that I'll close public participation and I saw that Alder Wolf has a question.

[1:42:47] Did I turn you off?

[1:42:48] It was on.

[1:42:49] Sorry about that.

[1:42:49] Thank you.

[1:42:50] Thank you chair.

[1:42:51] I just have a couple questions.

[1:42:52] And just one kind of simple point, but maybe Kristen or Chief Olsen can answer as well.

[1:43:00] An example I was thinking of how immigration and border or ICE could potentially manipulate

[1:43:10] the system. For an example, the Brown County Sheriff came out as a big proponent of ICE so they could

[1:43:18] And simply go to the Brown County Sheriff's Department, ask them to do a search.

[1:43:23] Brown County Sheriff's Department would come back to ICE with those results.

[1:43:29] But also as far as the drop down menu, that data could still be manipulated if, say, an

[1:43:36] officer just lied about the official reason for the case, rather than saying its immigration

[1:43:45] control.

[1:43:45] they could just say that it's a drug smuggler or something else like that.

[1:43:52] Is there a prevention capability inside of lock system that prevents officers from falsifying reports?

[1:44:02] Chief,

[1:44:05] there isn't a system of product, there's not anything there other than an officer's integrity that prevents them from lying.

[1:44:16] or somehow misusing information or misusing their authority.

[1:44:21] And understanding that, again, if those things happen,

[1:44:24] that they will, there'll be swift and significant repercussions,

[1:44:30] including likely not ever getting hired by another police agency

[1:44:34] as an officer, again, if they're caught lying on the job.

[1:44:41] What's that?

[1:44:42] I'll just to follow up.

[1:44:45] First, I know that I trust the applicant

[1:44:50] pleased to partner with the Fox system.

[1:44:52] I know that we have standards and integrity.

[1:44:55] And I trust our officers training.

[1:44:57] And I do appreciate you and the work that our department does.

[1:45:00] I just wanted to make that clear. I know that it could be difficult sitting there, defending your own record when it's a good record as far as integrity goes. There are a lot of people concerned about ICE because it is clear, based on videos, and things that they've seen that their standards are much lower than what we've seen before. And that gives them a lot of concern.

[1:45:29] When I asked about Flock on Facebook and with people, they're very scared about it and I think that if we want to continue to use it in the city, we need to do a very thorough education process with our community and with the people who are in fact paying for the system to ensure them that it's safe in our hands and that they don't have to be afraid of that.

[1:45:59] system in place.

[1:46:04] But I guess I don't have a question there or just a point because I can see

[1:46:12] how it could be frustrating from your perspective. Well, if I can just make a quick comment on that,

[1:46:17] I appreciate your comments and I very much know that this community is very supportive of our police

[1:46:23] department. So I view this as being just good solid discussion about a tool that we have available to

[1:46:30] us. On the same note, I think we're straining a little bit too far from the purpose of why

[1:46:39] the council trusted us with this product three years ago when they did, and that is because

[1:46:46] it's a force multiplier in leading us to leads that allow us to self-crime and hold people

[1:46:56] accountable for what happens in this community. I haven't yet had a chance to report out

[1:47:01] on our stats from last year, but I can tell you that our part one crimes are violent crimes

[1:47:08] in the city are significantly reduced and have significantly declined over the last three

[1:47:14] years since we've had these cameras, you know, be put in place. And I think we're very short-sighted

[1:47:20] if we lose sight of that or get distracted by what ifing, a million things that likely will

[1:47:29] never happen. And that if one of us has a family member that becomes a victim of a horrible crime,

[1:47:38] I just hope that we have this kind of technology available to be able to give you the closure that

[1:47:45] that you deserve if something like that were to happen.

[1:47:50] And that's my fear.

[1:47:51] My fear is that again, because we're so worried

[1:47:54] about what could happen that we're losing sight

[1:47:57] of how it's currently being used in a lawful, helpful,

[1:48:02] very beneficial way.

[1:48:06] Thank you.

[1:48:07] Yeah, I think that we all recognize the value

[1:48:10] as the tool, but we're all operating in a situation right now

[1:48:15] where there's very low trust for public institutions.

[1:48:21] And that's where we find ourselves as all their persons saying,

[1:48:25] how can we continue to use the tool in a way that helps keep us safe.

[1:48:33] But how can we also make sure that we're showing the community

[1:48:37] that we're worthy of that trust? So, other hard time?

[1:48:42] Thank you, Chair. A question was asked.

[1:48:43] I mean, I directed Chief Olson.

[1:48:45] A question was asked earlier about someone falsifying a case number in order to use this.

[1:48:50] I assume that there's an internal audit section that is disallowing that.

[1:48:55] Is that correct?

[1:48:56] That's correct.

[1:48:57] I mean, again, we would have to go through and check every single incident number.

[1:49:02] And depending on how many searches we have, that might be what we have to do if that means

[1:49:08] that it allows us to continue to have the trust of the public.

[1:49:13] I would also put it in line with our evidence unit,

[1:49:17] and we do announced and unannounced audience

[1:49:20] and our evidence unit regularly,

[1:49:23] where a supervisor goes down and just randomly pulls

[1:49:26] pieces of evidence from the shelves,

[1:49:28] and ensures, again, that we don't have drugs missing,

[1:49:31] that we don't have evidence missing.

[1:49:33] This falls in the same, I guess, category as that,

[1:49:36] that, and that we have these internal auditing processes in place because it's important

[1:49:41] to us to make sure that we continue to have the trust of the community.

[1:49:47] Thank you.

[1:49:48] I'm trusting in that.

[1:49:48] I just wanted to ask that question as a follow-up.

[1:49:50] Thank you.

[1:49:50] Other Fenton?

[1:49:51] Super quick.

[1:49:52] And this one probably goes to Ms. McLeod as well.

[1:49:55] And thank you for staying with us for so long.

[1:49:58] I'm sure that's not what you expected.

[1:50:00] But of course, so in terms of we share data, and I will use Alder Wolf's Brown County example, so they perhaps have their drop down set more loosely for what's a valid search than the city of Appleton would, because our transparency portal clearly lays out what is not allowed as a search. If an entity with whom we share data is searching the city of Appleton

[1:50:29] will they be limited to the parameters we select as opposed to theirs which might be looser?

[1:50:41] So with regard to immigration enforcement specifically, you have the search filter enabled.

[1:50:50] Brown County, if they do not, if they have removed that search,

[1:50:59] that offense type from their drop down menu, then they are testing to that the search is going to be conducted for the offense type that is selected.

[1:51:12] And you will have record of that external agency's search.

[1:51:21] If I can just clarify, what I heard Alder-Fundin asking was we have certain parameters set up,

[1:51:29] you have to put in an incident number for example.

[1:51:33] So if an outside entity that shares that we share data with is looking up information,

[1:51:41] do they have to provide an incident number?

[1:51:43] They are beholden to the way that Appleton has set up their system.

[1:51:50] Is that correct?

[1:51:51] Or are they able to access it under the way their system is set up?

[1:51:55] Is that what you were asking, Father Fenton?

[1:51:58] In a way, but I was specifically saying, and either we have prohibited uses on our portal,

[1:52:04] immigration enforcement, traffic, harassment, intimidation, etc.

[1:52:07] and using immigration as an example, that is not allowed as a drop down for an Appleton personnel who still has to have an incident number, a case number.

[1:52:22] But if another entity still has a case number but they could select that from the drop down,

[1:52:31] would Appleton's data filter under the wider filter allowed by that agency?

[1:52:39] Let me see if I can address this clearly.

[1:52:43] So in the FOX system, when an agency, so let's call them agency B,

[1:52:53] that you have granted sharing permissions to and they are conducting a search.

[1:52:59] When they are conducting a search on their end, at minimum, they will have to select from the offense type drop down.

[1:53:12] Up to that agency, agency B, whether or not they want to require a case number,

[1:53:22] but at minimum, they will have to select the offense type.

[1:53:25] So, let's say for example, agency B does not require an incident number, when they are searching for the suspect vehicle, the wanted vehicle, they would have to, they would select the offense type and then they could select I want to include Appleton's camera network because they've granted us permission.

[1:53:47] I want to include that search of their camera network.

[1:53:51] Now, if the offense type selected is immigration enforcement, for example, that search would not hit the Appleton cameras because the search filter for that is enabled.

[1:54:07] I believe that answered my question.

[1:54:11] So the bottom line is, Appleton controls the access to our data by other agencies based

[1:54:20] on the parameters that we select.

[1:54:23] Is that a true statement?

[1:54:28] With regard to immigration enforcement.

[1:54:34] Any other questions?

[1:54:36] All their mouths are.

[1:54:37] Number two?

[1:54:38] Yes, thank you.

[1:54:42] So, I'm not sure if these are necessarily questions, more comments, but we're talking

[1:54:49] about flock as a tool, a tool that certainly, as this force multiplier, has great advantages

[1:54:58] for our police force.

[1:55:00] But I think just to kind of contextualize where some of our concerns are coming from, we've had lots of very valuable tools in the past that we learned were actually very harmful. So asbestos, for example, was a force multiplier in keeping auditoriums from bursting into flames. We have since then learned that asbestos is not worth the harms that it does on the side. So I think one of my big concerns

[1:55:29] returns with the flock camera technology with the system is that it holds those kinds of risks.

[1:55:38] So if we have good policies, but we share our data with other entities who don't have good policies,

[1:55:46] that concerns me with the exposure of our residents to a level of risk of abuse.

[1:55:54] I think even things as going as far as to factor authentication can still be abused.

[1:56:01] You can have someone, you know, log you in to the system and then you as the bad actor

[1:56:06] under their credentials to what they have given you access to too.

[1:56:11] I think that one question I have is if we were notified that our data was downloaded by another

[1:56:23] agency who could then potentially retain that data and do what they want with it, what would

[1:56:29] we do in response? Do we have any ability to say no, we own that data. You downloaded a copy

[1:56:37] of it, but we demand it back, we demand that you delete it, or something like that. The degree

[1:56:44] to which we don't have control over what everyone else is doing with this data is my primary concern.

[1:56:52] So if we make sure that our ship is tight and that we're not abusing this data at all, what do we do, what recourse do we have, how do we respond to the harm being done if we become aware that other entities that we're sharing data with are not operating with the same integrity that we have?

[1:57:13] Did

[1:57:17] you want to add anything, Chief?

[1:57:19] I don't have anything to add at this point.

[1:57:22] Thank you.

[1:57:24] Other forkists?

[1:57:25] Thank you, Chair.

[1:57:27] Thank you for the presentation.

[1:57:29] I definitely do agree the benefits of this system definitely well away some of these other

[1:57:36] concerns and potential issues.

[1:57:40] I think any tool that makes the job easier and more efficient, no matter what that tool is,

[1:57:45] This is always going to have the ability to be misused and that's where the accountability

[1:57:50] mechanisms come in.

[1:57:54] I think ultimately we want to be able to have the tools in place that allow our department

[1:58:00] our city to enforce its laws the most effective and most efficiently.

[1:58:04] I think if you aren't doing what you can to be effective and efficient you are opening the

[1:58:08] door for people who maybe aren't going to be as responsible and responsive to accountability.

[1:58:14] But taking in some of these concerns of how systems could be misused or abused, I am

[1:58:20] wondering whether or not these are a functionality within block or be things that can be somewhat

[1:58:27] accomplished through department internal audits.

[1:58:32] One option maybe would be a red flag type of situation where say you know you have a member,

[1:58:39] A department has a member of the force where they know they're going through some stuff

[1:58:43] in their life at that moment.

[1:58:45] And just as a safe part, they can say, hey, if this person looks for specific things like

[1:58:51] say an ex-spouses license plate number, that would be a red flag that would say, hey, somebody's

[1:58:58] doing something they've shown right now.

[1:59:00] Another one would maybe be a blacklisting, so kind of using the example of another department

[1:59:05] is accessing our data by their agreement with another department.

[1:59:10] Let's say we start to notice a pattern of, hey, this other department isn't very good at safeguarding their searches,

[1:59:20] and we feel like they're abusing them.

[1:59:23] While we still want to continue to share our data with the primary department,

[1:59:27] we want a blacklist, that secondary department, if we feel like they are not using standards that,

[1:59:33] Again, these are maybe not going to be things that are going to happen all the time, but

[1:59:38] maybe these are features that whether or not they exist today, or whether or not they

[1:59:42] can be effectively duplicated through some sort of internal audits.

[1:59:47] Maybe those are enhancements that could go a little bit further towards safeguarding to

[1:59:51] make sure that, well, yes, there is risk either way, we can maybe tighten that up a little

[1:59:59] a little bit more.

[2:00:00] Those are just some thoughts.

[2:00:03] And I think I'm going to have this be the last comment because it's 730. So go ahead, alder, shalt, number two, right? Thank you. I'll try and make it brief here. I first off, echo the sentiments of all their wolf concerning the appletan place department and integrity of the individuals that serve this community. I will hardly agree. It's not so much that my concern is about our appletan place misusing the system, but the data that's out there being collected by our system.

[2:00:31] and that might be misused by other departments outside of Appleton.

[2:00:35] I feel a little bit better coming out of this, number one, knowing that we're only sharing

[2:00:40] with mostly police departments within this data Wisconsin, that's at least what's showed

[2:00:44] on the portal.

[2:00:45] It's a little interesting that the police departments around the entity sharing with us from outside

[2:00:52] is a much larger collection of people in the middle, departments in the Midwest, Maya, one,

[2:00:56] Illinois, and Minnesota, so that's, I find that kind of interesting.

[2:01:01] I do think that, you know, I want to recognize the comments by the public here that, you know,

[2:01:08] there has been abuse of the system, and in particular, from some segments society that there

[2:01:15] is concern, particularly when it comes to spousal or sexual abuse, or things in that nature,

[2:01:21] that could be accomplished with this system.

[2:01:23] But I have heard now from Kristen and APD that we're tightening the accessibility accountability

[2:01:31] by making sure that we have numbers associated with inquiries into the system that there

[2:01:39] will be coming forth a system to flag sort of odd searches that say, okay, maybe you need

[2:01:47] to look in, this doesn't seem right.

[2:01:48] So, if that system, that process gets employed by our FOX system, I think that is helpful as well.

[2:01:57] I still think there are some improvements in that maybe we could be made maybe on the data retention, maybe shrinking the window of how long we keep that data from 30 days to a smaller window of time.

[2:02:12] I do sort of recognize that, you know, it doesn't track people, but if you put a query in of a license plate, maybe you're conducting investigation and there's a bystander who is a witness and says, well, I saw a person drive away.

[2:02:25] This is the vehicle and I wrote down the license plate.

[2:02:27] Part of the investigation as well. Let's take a look at this license plate. It's a valid investigative query that gets put in the system. Maybe it's not the right license place for person, but suddenly you have a collection.

[2:02:39] that license plate being captured by a system of 20 cameras for, let's say, it's a period of 15 days.

[2:02:45] That's tracking activity of a singular vehicle in the community for a large amount of time.

[2:02:53] So, you know, I get that it's a single shot and a single license plate.

[2:02:58] But the way the system works, you can collect a lot more data from a single plate in a 30-80 window

[2:03:03] and tell what a person has been doing for the last 30 days down to the hour.

[2:03:09] So those are the concerns that I just want to recognize some of the concerns that the constituents had.

[2:03:14] Again, I feel comfortable.

[2:03:16] I like that Chief Olson is open to looking at the policy and maybe addressing a couple things that might make us all feel a little bit better about the way it's being used.

[2:03:26] And I do believe that it is a valuable tool for our police department.

[2:03:31] And it's obvious by the cases that this thing has helped us resolve with a lot of manpower that it's the tool we need to use.

[2:03:41] But just want to make sure we're using it in a way that everybody feels good about.

[2:03:45] So thank you.

[2:03:47] Thank you. And I'll just wrap this up by saying thank you to everyone who participated today and for your information.

[2:03:55] Again, reminding everyone that when I spoke with Chief today, I actually highlighted what Chief said,

[2:04:01] which was, I'm always open to improving how we provide service to the community and

[2:04:06] while we view ours, meaning the policies and procedures, to see if we can modify to address any concerns you may have.

[2:04:13] So this is just the jumping off point and I think we have a group of active older persons who are willing to work with the department to see what we can do.

[2:04:23] to strengthen public trust.

[2:04:26] So we'll move on then to the next information item,

[2:04:30] 260093, the Alcohol License Violations and Convictions.

[2:04:38] Clerk Molleter, did you have anything to add

[2:04:40] or should we just note these?

[2:04:45] Nothing to add except that these will be the ones

[2:04:47] that will be appearing at the next safety and licensing.

[2:04:49] Great, thank you very much.

[2:04:51] And then that brings us to our director's report.

[2:04:53] We only have one with some information and that's for our police.

[2:05:00] Chief, so Chief Olson on focus traffic enforcement violations?

[2:05:05] Yes, thank you, Chair. So as a discussion

[2:05:11] point coming out of last year and specifically around the noise related violations, we've

[2:05:18] got an auto-generated report that's going to generate this report on the 15th of every month,

[2:05:26] which contains those violations that, if you recall, the mayor did a presentation on back in October.

[2:05:34] And so, this is the first such report, and I plan on attaching it to the agenda for

[2:05:40] whatever meeting could be done after that, if the committee finds value in seeing this report.

[2:05:47] I think that it's valuable and just looking at the rest of the committee, it appears they do as well.

[2:05:53] So we would appreciate that. Thank you.

[2:05:57] So then I didn't have anything from the chief

[2:06:00] Fire Chief or the clerk. So with that all entertained in motion to adjourn move to adjourn second all those in favor say aye

[2:06:07] I

[2:06:08] We're adjourned. Thank you

Safety and Licensing Committee on 2026-01-28 5:30 PM

Agenda

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