[0:00] So good. The date is February 4th. The hour is 6 p.m. City clerk, may we have a roll call, please.

[0:09] Council Member Eisenberg. Present. Council Member Cooper. Present. Council Member Gift. Present. Vice Mayor Lopez Ortega. Present. Mayor Williams. Present. Please join us in the pledge of allegiance.

[0:46] Since our last meeting, in fact, we met yesterday on a closed session regarding a personnel

[0:51] issue with City Manager, and from that meeting, there's no reportable action.

[0:57] Next item on the agenda is oral communication on consent or non-agenda items.

[1:07] At this time, the council welcomes comments from the public regarding matters on the consent

[1:13] calendar or of municipal concern not on the agenda.

[1:17] The speaking time allowed is three minutes, please note the city clerk's time clock to your

[1:22] left. According to the Brown Act, the Council does not permit it to discuss issues or answer

[1:27] questions at this time. In other words, the public may speak, but the Council cannot. Council

[1:34] members, however, are free to discuss issues with the public apart from the Council meetings.

[1:40] Would anybody like to address the Council on a consent item or a non-agenda item?

[1:46] This is non-agenda item.

[1:48] Good evening, council.

[1:51] I've asked before I'd like you always to consider a path to home ownership when thinking

[1:58] about housing for the residents here in town.

[2:03] And what brings that to mind very strongly to me is when I understand that there are hotel

[2:10] I tell rooms here for rent for $2,000 plus dollars, and we are building affordable housing essentially for poor people.

[2:23] And what we're doing in that way is we're subsidizing corporate profits that leave this town.

[2:31] I understand that all of these businesses pay fees and they pay taxes to town.

[2:36] But I'd like to know that when the council is making housing decisions, building housing for residents here in town,

[2:44] that you're thinking about a path to home ownership always and not simply rentals or affordable housing or low income housing.

[2:54] I don't like the idea of keeping people poor so that corporations can profit and take their profits out of the community.

[3:04] So thank you.

[3:06] Thank you.

[3:13] Carrier, 1720, Renard Lane.

[3:18] This is in regards to, I'm not sure that the public is aware that this city subsidizes

[3:25] $550,000 to the Chamber, which is taxpayer money.

[3:31] And I've asked before if there was, there's been an audit on how that money's being spent

[3:37] and I've never been answered that answer.

[3:40] But one thing that really I've talked to a couple other business owners.

[3:44] I've owned my own business for 38 years.

[3:48] Christmas, the tractor parade is one of the biggest events in this town.

[3:53] The chamber did not even have Christmas lights in their window.

[3:57] For $550,000, they didn't walk around and ask everybody to maybe put two strings

[4:03] by two boxes of lights for every business.

[4:06] I mean, I drove around town for the four days before the tractor parade.

[4:10] This place should look like a hallmark movie.

[4:12] If we're going to have 6 to 10,000 people in town, then that's how it should look.

[4:17] But it doesn't look.

[4:18] It doesn't look like that.

[4:20] There's no Christmas decorations hanging from the poles.

[4:24] I mean, when I was a kid, this town was decorated.

[4:26] We didn't have a tractor parade.

[4:28] I just find it, I just find that nobody's keeping shop.

[4:34] And I've said it to many people.

[4:37] I think it's time that you think about the citizens who are also here, not just all the people coming.

[4:44] I mean, we drive through town every night before the tractor parade.

[4:46] I drove up and down Lincoln Avenue.

[4:48] There was only seven businesses at a 22 on one side that even had lights and Christmas lights on.

[4:54] I mean, I just, I'm just baffled.

[4:58] I'm baffled why nothing else gets done.

[5:00] And I hope this council will hopefully talk to the CEO of the Chamber and say listen, people are asking questions.

[5:08] I'll go talk to them myself, but when you don't find a door open and you don't find any lights on, nobody's really home.

[5:15] Thank you.

[5:16] Thank you.

[5:27] Good evening.

[5:29] Tim Wilkes, 1517 Cedar Street.

[5:33] This is regarding the consent calendar item 5.6.

[5:39] Whatever Calistokans thought we were getting with the fairgrounds acquisition, I think it's fair to say that reinstating Sprint car racing was not what we were envisioning.

[5:54] Charging ahead with this agreement has left a bitter aftertaste in a significant number of those Calistokans who supported the acquisition of the fairgrounds.

[6:04] On that, I would just ask and I know I'm whistling in the wind that you pull this item from the consent and reconsider it.

[6:14] Thank you.

[6:15] Thank you.

[6:22] Good evening, Mayor.

[6:24] Council members and staff.

[6:26] I'm Jenny Okone with the executive director of the Up Valley Family Sunners.

[6:30] I think most of you are familiar with our nonprofit here in town.

[6:34] We serve the entire Up Valley region providing an array of social services to the community.

[6:40] I am here because we just in collaboration with organizations, countywide launched a website called Napa Valley together.

[6:50] It has a lot of resources for our community members in particular, our immigrant community members.

[6:56] And I am here on behalf of our staff and the people that we serve to request that the city of Calistoga issue a public statement that expresses support, protection,

[7:07] an inclusion of historically marginalized communities who are feeling increasingly under attack

[7:13] and worried for their safety in our current environment.

[7:18] Your leadership matters, a statement similar to the one adopted by the Napa County Board

[7:23] of Supervisors can help residents in our community to feel safer, to attend school, or work, to seek

[7:30] medical care, to attend faith services, and to engage in civic daily life with their neighbors,

[7:36] members, friends, and families.

[7:38] Public statement will also help to shore up trust between vulnerable community members and

[7:43] city offices and departments.

[7:46] At Valley Family Centers, we have an immigration program that is working diligently to provide

[7:50] education and resources to community members through workshops and individual consultations.

[7:56] In these sessions, sharing a statement from the City of Calistoga will let community members

[8:01] know that the city values them.

[8:03] In addition, just an announcement that we will be holding a know your right session here in this room tomorrow evening.

[8:09] I'm going to leave flyers out on the back table for anyone who wishes to attend.

[8:15] Thank you.

[8:19] Would anybody else in the chamber tonight like to address the council or city clerk?

[8:26] Is there anyone online?

[8:31] As you can tell, our Zoom is having technical difficulties.

[8:35] Okay.

[8:35] There's a hand raised, but I believe it's due to the video not working.

[8:39] Okay. Okay. Let's double check. Yeah.

[8:47] So let's see where Michelle. Can you hear us? Yes. I can hear you. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Great. Thanks so much. My name is Michelle groupie. I'm the director of the community leaders coalition.

[9:02] The community leaders coalition was founded following the 2016 election as a grassroots

[9:08] initiative to address growing concerns within Napa County, particularly regarding our

[9:13] BIPOC LGBTQ plus and immigrant populations.

[9:16] Our collaborative is a space for community leaders to engage in advocacy and collective problem-solving.

[9:22] Our vision today remains the same as when we first came together, fostering a community

[9:26] that is inclusive, equitable, and vibrant, prioritizing trust, safety, health, education,

[9:33] and empowerment as shared responsibilities. We have successfully worked across the valley

[9:38] on projects under voter engagement in education, the 2020 census outreach in education,

[9:44] testing vaccine outreach in education, and language access advocacy. Based on our experience during

[9:53] President Trump's first administration.

[9:55] We have the drive knowledge and commitment from our members to respond with proven strategies

[10:00] to support our community with accurate information from trusted messengers.

[10:05] We've been working in partnership with the Up Valley Family Centers as one of our members

[10:10] and working with them and the other partners on the Napa Valley together website that Jenny

[10:19] And we have been requesting of our local municipalities and our local leaders to issue a statement of support for our immigrant population.

[10:29] So I'm here tonight representing the countywide community leaders coalition and supporting the Valley Family Centers request for a statement of support for the community.

[10:42] Thank you.

[10:43] Thank you for addressing us on that topic.

[10:46] Yes.

[10:48] City clerk, is there anyone else online perhaps?

[10:51] No more online.

[10:51] Okay.

[10:52] I want to welcome, by the way, those who are watching us on the screen as well, we're

[10:57] glad you're with us.

[10:58] How about here in the chamber tonight?

[11:00] But anybody else would like to address the council on a consent calendar item or an item

[11:05] of municipal concern that's not on the agenda?

[11:12] Okay.

[11:13] There's close public comment in that case and we'll proceed to the report from our city

[11:17] manager.

[11:18] Thank you, Mayor.

[11:20] So thank you, welcome and thank you to all of you who are here in this room who have made it through the torrential rains.

[11:26] It has been quite busy, including this afternoon doing a lot of flood monitoring, but we seem to be with the rain stopping, okay, locally, hyper-locally.

[11:36] I get to do one of my favorite things tonight. I get to welcome a new staff member.

[11:40] So, tonight I have the pleasure of welcoming the newest staff member to the Calistoga Police

[11:45] Department.

[11:46] It's Officer Maria Gutierrez.

[11:49] Today is only her second day in the job, but since she was raised here in Calistoga, that

[11:58] will certainly help shorten her learning curve.

[12:01] She earned her bachelor's degree in criminal justice from the University of Las Vegas, and

[12:05] is joining us after having already had some direct experience while working for the Nevada

[12:09] Police Department.

[12:10] Officer Gutierrez is passionate about community involvement, especially eager to make a meaningful

[12:15] impact here in Calistoga. Outside of work, she enjoys spending time with her family, gardening,

[12:20] and hiking. She's married with three children and values family life deeply. Again, please join

[12:25] us in welcoming Officer Gutierrez. Welcome.

[12:33] The mic is already on. Thank you for having me here.

[12:37] I am very honored to serve my community. I was born here in St. Helena and raised here in

[12:45] Cal Stoga. This has always been my dream to work in my community that I grew up. I remember

[12:54] Mr. Eisenberg, you are my principal at the moment you're school. I am very honored and

[13:01] very thankful for this opportunity and to be serving my community. Thank you.

[13:06] Officer, welcome.

[13:20] So

[13:26] in addition I'd also like to welcome back our fire personnel who came home safely after 16 days from Southern California helping fight two different fires there.

[13:35] So that was also good news they were able to come back late last week.

[13:39] I would also I this is a little bit repetitive at this point, but I wanted to be sure to encourage our community members to work with a Valley Family Centers.

[13:47] As they have helped form this new coalition of non-profits responding to the concerns

[13:51] that so many have about immigration and the new presidential administration.

[13:56] And as was already mentioned, there's a series of informational and training opportunities

[14:01] and one of them is here tomorrow night in this room.

[14:04] I would also like to invite everybody to a grand opening, to a ribbon cutting.

[14:10] We're going to be celebrating the new playground at Lovie Park on Wednesday.

[14:15] this is quite a ways away still, but Wednesday March the 12th at 3pm.

[14:18] So bring the family, explore the new play area, try out the botchy courts, and have some

[14:23] light refreshments as we cut the ribbon for the new additions to the park, and we're

[14:27] especially grateful to the Adelante group for their support in making this project a reality.

[14:33] As an additional update, I have some good news about what is called a pilot project or a

[14:38] soft opening for the RV park.

[14:41] PG&E has reached out to us that they have some of their workers in the wildfire safety program

[14:49] who would like to stay at the RV park under the rules that we already have established.

[14:55] And we will be allowing them to stay there with payments.

[15:00] And what not, and what is going to provide for us is to be able to test the repairs that we have made, make sure that the water systems are working and electrical systems are working and that kind of thing. While we continue to work on some issues around having a host, at which point we can then open it fully to the public. So at the moment you will see some RVs there, their contractors working for PG&E. And lastly, we have had the impact of the rain may require us to

[15:29] move our agenda around a little bit, but we will have an update on that as we get closer to the public hearing items.

[15:35] Okay. Thank you.

[15:36] Thank you, seated manager.

[15:38] Council members, any questions of our city manager?

[15:42] All righty, very good.

[15:44] Let's see, we have a presentation tonight.

[15:48] Let's see, presentation regarding the Calisoga Library and the presenters are Stephanie Allen and Jacqueline Flores.

[15:58] As welcome

[16:03] ladies to Calistoga and we look forward to your presentation.

[16:06] Thank you.

[16:07] Actually Stephanie wasn't able to make it into the rain.

[16:11] So I have Adriana here joining me from the library as well.

[16:15] I'm Jacqueline Flores.

[16:17] Adriana Ramos.

[16:18] Okay, welcome.

[16:18] Thank you.

[16:20] So we just want to touch on a couple of things to kind of give you an overview of

[16:26] how we've been doing as a library.

[16:29] One highlight, we did add a new role, which actually my co-partner here now fills as a Spanish librarian.

[16:38] So she gets to focus a little bit more on outreach in the community.

[16:42] And as a reminder, our branch, all of our staff are bilingual.

[16:47] It is a requirement to work in our branch, as we're all bilingual.

[16:54] over the summer, one of our biggest programs, over the summer, one of our biggest programs

[17:00] we have is summer reading. This year we were very excited to partner with the elementary

[17:04] school, so we had over 200 attendees come to our story times, our crafts, we did class

[17:11] visits, we had performers, and we had an end of the year summer party, so we were really

[17:16] excited to have the school join us with that and the community.

[17:22] And then just a touch on like other services that our library provides.

[17:27] Hot spots, Chromebooks, which hotspots in particular I want to highlight

[17:31] for the reason that we do have to, you know, base power outages quite frequently.

[17:39] So those are really critical and actually quite recently.

[17:42] We had additional hotspots added, so the wait times have been much shorter now.

[17:50] In terms of like other things that we provide in addition to books, also guitars, coloring

[17:56] books, baking kits, so much more than just books.

[18:04] And the last time we presented here to the council was during the pandemic.

[18:08] Thanks to the pandemic, a lot of people are now using online services.

[18:11] I wanted to highlight a couple of the services that we have.

[18:15] Libby and Hoopla are things that you can read and listen to audiobooks or e-books.

[18:21] BrainFuse is homework help. We have live tutors every day for free.

[18:26] So for students, anyone needing help with homework or even adults, anybody that's taking a class can use brainFuse.

[18:32] We also have the job now which is help to find jobs, resumes, cover letters.

[18:38] We offer California State Parks Pass, which means you can rent this park pass for free and go to any California State Park entrance day for free.

[18:50] I also want to highlight that anything you do at the library is always free. Anything you get from the library is free.

[18:57] I just want everyone to be aware of that and please spread the word.

[19:00] And another really important part this year, probably our favorite was the 100th year celebration.

[19:14] October 19th of 2024. We had over 200 people in attendance and had the opportunity to have a taco truck, a taco felice,

[19:27] and also had visits from Mike Thompson and Control,

[19:32] got to partner with the Friends of the Library here locally

[19:35] and as well as the Sharp Scene Museum

[19:39] and the Calistoga Art Center.

[19:42] Here's some pictures.

[19:44] Maybe you recognize some of these faces.

[19:49] These are some of the staff members

[19:50] that you'll see inside the library.

[19:53] And we just wanted to make one more thing

[19:56] that the friends of the library are always looking for volunteers.

[19:59] If you're not familiar with the friends, they are a volunteering group that helps support

[20:04] the library.

[20:05] So if you're ever interested in volunteering, it can mean just coming in for an hour

[20:09] to sort books, it could mean helping with the program, anything if you're interested, come

[20:14] to the library or add them on Facebook.

[20:17] Thank you.

[20:18] Thank you.

[20:19] Thank you for the presentation.

[20:23] We have just a couple of questions before you go away.

[20:30] I just wanted to check, do many students take advantage of the opportunity to take advantage

[20:38] of the help that's available for them?

[20:41] Unfortunately, not that I see, and that's why we really wanted to highlight that, to let

[20:45] people be aware of it, and I feel like telling parents is the best thing, because a student

[20:50] won't tell their parent, but the parent will tell the student, so I really hope that people

[20:54] We'll take advantage of what we have to offer.

[20:57] Great, and could you remind us again, and I'm embarrassed I have to ask, but what are the hours of the library?

[21:02] Oh, no problem.

[21:03] The library's open Monday through Saturday, 10 to 6, Wednesdays 11 or 12 to 8.

[21:08] Yes, 12 to 8.

[21:09] Yes.

[21:10] And so into the evening on Wednesdays?

[21:11] Yes.

[21:12] Council members?

[21:13] Yes.

[21:14] Not really a question, just a comment.

[21:17] Libby and I are close friends.

[21:19] I always have a book on my iPad from the library on Libby and it's just a great

[21:27] way to have my book with me and I don't even need to go out in the rain to get

[21:32] it. Yes, that's very true. Thank you for having the online digital books. Thank

[21:38] you. Regarding the classes, the guitar classes that you offer are there group

[21:44] classes or individuals saying how that was you need to make an appointment or no their group but

[21:53] technically they're individual because no one shows up so for the first Saturday of the month

[21:58] it's for children at 10 a.m. and the third Saturday of the month is is adults and teens okay all right

[22:06] thank you I just had a question or idea the mothers and sisters the monastery do a lot of tutoring

[22:12] for the kids. So how do you thought about collaborating with them to some

[22:15] degrees? An idea? No, we have not. They recently have started to attend our

[22:18] programming. So that is going to be a great partnership. Hopefully, thank you for

[22:22] the suggestion. Yeah, because we are always looking for tutors. We currently only

[22:27] have one. Well, good. Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I just want to thank you

[22:32] lady so much. I mean, you know how often Finn and I are in there. Like it's our

[22:36] second home. And we are so lucky in our community to have such a robust library

[22:41] with so many offerings I mean everything from like we're saying games or like pickle ball like

[22:46] that's a thing now apparently yeah it was it's awesome and in better news I found my two missing books

[22:54] we did get away from collection finds so now only if you really lose the item you have to pay if

[23:00] you don't lose it you don't have to pay anything thank you like you never lose an online book

[23:11] Great. Thank you. Yes, thank you to the to the fun party for the celebration. I also went to the cooking class the other night, and that was really fun. Yeah, I hope there's more cooking classes. Yeah, that's the impossible. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Yes, while I was returning my my past to both A.

[23:31] Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. I think Miss Allen also she represents Kalasoga on the library.

[23:41] Board, so her service is appreciated.

[23:43] I will thank you.

[23:44] Thank you.

[23:46] The next item before us is the items on the consent calendar, and I'll entertain a motion

[23:52] to adopt unless anybody wants to pull any of those items.

[23:55] Yes, Council Member Giff.

[23:56] Yes, can I please pull item 5.4 and 5.6?

[24:00] 5.4 and 5.6, certainly,

[24:06] then is there a motion to approve the remaining items with the exception

[24:12] motion to 5, 4, and 5, 6.

[24:14] So moved.

[24:15] Second.

[24:16] Motion and second.

[24:18] All in favor?

[24:19] Aye.

[24:20] Opposed?

[24:21] It passes.

[24:23] Let's go to 5.4.

[24:28] And this is, let's see, just to,

[24:32] this is a consultant services agreement amendment.

[24:38] And a paying director, Desmond, could you summarize this for us?

[24:44] Of course, good evening, Council.

[24:47] This item is related to the Yellow Rose projects more specifically to the Sequa Analysis of

[24:54] that project.

[24:56] The ask is an amendment to the existing contract for the sum of $60,000 roughly.

[25:04] And again, it's for the Secret Environmental Review of the Yellow Rose Project.

[25:14] The actual request is based on the amount of time it's taken to process this application.

[25:22] And that is primarily been driven by the applicant themselves.

[25:28] So I'm not sure what the questions you may have, but I'm happy to answer specific questions.

[25:33] Thank you guys, and thank you for letting me pull this item.

[25:37] I just am curious, so this is back.

[25:39] So this project kind of was stalled for a little while, and now is back.

[25:43] And just to clarify, this is the project that is at Yellow Rose, the 46-acre parcel.

[25:50] And the proposal is for 46 single-family homes on these lots.

[25:57] My other question is, it looks like it's 20,000 square foot lots.

[26:01] but my understanding of rural residential zoning was that it was one house per acre.

[26:06] Is that not how zoning is in a rural residential in our community?

[26:10] Well, I'm not prepared to analyze or go over the projects for specifics because that's not the item.

[26:18] The only question I guess would be then this is coming back to us after having the project

[26:24] to have installed and just continuing that CEQA process then.

[26:27] That's correct.

[26:28] It's come back and you guys will be seeing basically this will wrap up the CEQA document.

[26:36] Then we can have hearings with the planning commission and I'll eventually come back to you guys.

[26:42] That's all.

[26:43] Thank you very much.

[26:44] Thank you.

[26:45] Is there any other council member comment or question on this item?

[26:50] Yes.

[26:50] Yes, just regarding the fees for this report, the developer will be responsible for.

[27:02] That's correct.

[27:03] The entirety of the environmental document fees will be paid by the developer.

[27:09] Okay.

[27:11] All right.

[27:11] Thank you.

[27:13] Can you give to move that we adopt this one?

[27:16] Yes, I move that we adopt.

[27:17] And a second.

[27:18] I second.

[27:19] Thank you.

[27:20] All in favor?

[27:21] Aye.

[27:22] Opposed?

[27:23] It passes.

[27:24] Let's go to 5.6.

[27:31] The subject of this one is a license agreement with Hunter Motorsports Concepts LLC for non-exclusive

[27:39] sprint car racing.

[27:42] And let's see.

[27:43] We have a fairground revitalization director or shall you write?

[27:46] Welcome.

[27:47] Thank you, Mayor.

[27:48] Council members.

[27:49] Back on November 19th, 2024, you asked me to negotiate a sprint car contract with Hunt Motorsports.

[27:58] I believe you will find that the proposed contract is more than fair for the City of Calistoga.

[28:06] In this contract, please note that the City of Calistoga retains all alcohol rights for

[28:12] the duration of the contract during race days and all RV overnight stays.

[28:18] Hunt Motorsports retains food concession rights, parking, and ticket sales.

[28:25] And they are entitled to a Friday night pre-race event in the Tubs building.

[28:31] Most importantly, Hunt Motorsports must provide for the repair and

[28:37] sign off of the grandstands before racing use.

[28:41] I ask that you authorize execution of this contract.

[28:45] Thank you.

[28:47] Council member gift.

[28:48] Yes, so I just had two kind of specific questions about this item while under contract

[28:54] is this portion of the Fairgrounds property available for other uses while races are

[28:58] not taking place or is it an exclusive?

[29:01] Yes, yes it is.

[29:02] The grounds will be available for other use.

[29:05] There's a provision in the contract to get a schedule, an agreeable schedule with Mr.

[29:11] Hunter Hunt and we will be able to move forward after that schedule.

[29:16] Okay, great.

[29:17] And my next question is the potential revenue that you're projecting here.

[29:24] Is that including any sort of inflation as the last historical data we have is from 2019?

[29:31] Yes, it is.

[29:32] Actually the alcohol sales I brought over from an estimate of attendance from the other

[29:40] place that I worked. Great, thank you. And I don't maybe, I can't ask this question because it's

[29:46] not in here, but do we have any suggested ideas about how we will handle the alcohol sales?

[29:53] Absolutely. My suggestion would be to hire a professional alcohol company that comes with the

[30:00] For trailers, they actually have scan machines for IDs, so it makes for quick sales. They have a purchase of service system in place so that you automatically get nightly reports on the total amount of sales for that evening and are easily able to calculate your percentage with regard to that. Again, like the license agreement with Hunt Motorsports, it would be a negotiated contract.

[30:29] But I am aware of multiple professional companies that I used in previous fairgrounds that would be appropriate for that.

[30:39] Great, thank you so much, Shelley.

[30:41] I also wanted to address Mr. Wilkes's concerns and comments about the timing and this.

[30:46] I think this is a perfect example why it's really important to confirm the committee and the survey today.

[30:52] There is certainly a group of concerned citizens who voice their opinion against it, and then there's also a group of I think a larger group of folks who in support of it

[31:02] I personally support it and I support the benefits it's going to bring to the city for the rest grounds for the businesses for the RV part for many many reasons

[31:09] I think that overcomes the concern about noise once or twice or three times a year, but again

[31:15] I think it's important that we focus on this committee and on this survey so we can really get to the bottom

[31:21] I'm statistically of how many people in town really do care about this.

[31:25] So just comments and appreciation for Mr. Wilkes.

[31:28] Thank you, Mr. Councilmember Cooper.

[31:30] Councilmember Rosenberg.

[31:32] So in reference to the alcohol sales.

[31:35] In the past, there have been times when we've had service organizations volunteer to do alcohol sales.

[31:45] they made a portion of the beer sales and to support the good works of those organizations.

[31:54] And I understand your reasons for wanting a professional and it certainly seems easier

[31:59] and more foolproof, but our service organizations do an amazing amount of good and I was wondering

[32:06] if you had thought about that as another option.

[32:10] I actually have thought about that Council Member Eisenberg.

[32:15] What I found at the last fairground that I worked at is that when I switched from I actually

[32:21] put a proposal that went out to bid for alcohol sales and when we switched from a local service

[32:29] organization to a professional company who brought in all of the instruments needed for

[32:36] the alcohols, our sales were up 35%, and we had less issues with regard to ABC issues

[32:47] on the grounds, so law enforcement issues

[32:54] because it's a professional company so they don't

[32:57] know any of the people that they're serving.

[33:01] I have a question on the grandstands.

[33:04] Are there criteria established, which have to be satisfied in order to, or what are the

[33:11] criteria, how are they established?

[33:13] Who decides who determines when the grandstands are structurally sound and safe?

[33:19] And does the improvements extend to cosmetic changes?

[33:25] Or are they primarily structural?

[33:28] So they are structural components that both grandstands need.

[33:33] And a structural engineer will need to be able to write a letter to the city,

[33:38] We will then review that will let us know that the grandstands repairs have been fixed.

[33:46] I can tell you that Mr. Hunt has been in contact with ZFA structural engineers,

[33:54] the ones that wrote the report that were attached to the original staff report

[33:59] with regard to the racing at the fairgrounds.

[34:04] And I believe that there has been conversations towards how and what to do with regard to fixing those grandstands.

[34:15] Thank you and we're talking about both the fixed grandstands and the auxiliary stands.

[34:23] Correct, both sets of stands needed different components repaired.

[34:29] Thank you. Other council members, questions? Yes. One thing is safety of the community or the people who will attend and you talk about that. That was one of my concerns before anything happened there before any races down. We had to be 100% sure that we don't want to have any safety issues.

[34:56] And the other one is to, I agree with, to conduct a study for pollution during the

[35:07] race so that way we can have an accurate information for the purpose of the decided of

[35:15] the Green Committee.

[35:17] So we don't have any information regarding that.

[35:21] So I think it's important to have the information available.

[35:26] So for the peace on mind of everybody.

[35:30] Sure.

[35:31] Can I go ahead and talk a little bit about the comment with regard to racing and pollution?

[35:37] Sure.

[35:38] Okay.

[35:38] Please.

[35:39] So you may not be aware, but race cars are exempt from the Clean Air Act.

[35:46] Sprint cars in particular use methanol, not gas or diesel, and that fuel source can be

[35:54] made from a various of products cornwood among other things.

[36:00] It's considered a cleaner fuel than gas or diesel, and it's actually blended with gas

[36:06] to reduce emissions.

[36:08] It should be noted that there have been movements in the race car industry, most notably with

[36:14] NASCAR, working towards greener racing, but you got to remember that NASCAR does 500 plus

[36:21] laps on a track. That doesn't happen here with sprint cars. This is not very often. We're

[36:28] talking about four race weekends a year in this particular contract. And most of the work

[36:36] towards net zero operating emissions that NASCAR and other racing communities are working towards

[36:44] is working towards the carbon measurement of the things they can control,

[36:51] like the vehicles going to the track, like solar with regard to infrastructure uses at large race tracks.

[36:59] EV charging sites at the facilities that have these tracks,

[37:05] expanded recycling measures, those kind of things.

[37:10] Thank you. Good questions.

[37:13] This is public comment and would anybody here in the chambers like to comment on this item before we take a vote?

[37:27] Yes, sir, and welcome.

[37:29] I don't.

[37:30] Ken Flynn, Callestoga.

[37:33] I just want to highly urge the council to approve this.

[37:37] I'm very surprised when we got it.

[37:39] Two years with erasing with the amount of financial outlay that he has to do to get the stand fixed.

[37:43] But one thing I did want to address is after the last meeting, the marathon meeting we had over there, about this issue, there seemed to be a lot of confusion with the public as far as if we have races, then will that be in one of the councilmember over here addressed it earlier, would that make it exclusively for racing?

[38:07] absolutely not, the facility is going to be used for everything, but the point being

[38:14] is that with what the racing community has to put into this to make it usable, it will

[38:21] make it usable for everybody.

[38:23] So the rodeos, whatever other events you want to have there, now those grandstands will

[38:29] be up to spec and be able to be used.

[38:33] I just wanted to point that out because it seemed to be a lot of confusion with the questions

[38:36] some of the letters to the newspaper and other things like that that I've read seem like people just thought that if there's going to be a racing here, we're not going to have anything else.

[38:45] The racing is going to enable or help enable everything else.

[38:49] So I just want to make sure that kind of got addressed.

[38:52] And I think you address the spring cards line on the math and all super clean fuel.

[38:58] That's, you know, that's not an issue.

[39:00] But anyway, just I urge you to vote yes on this and hopefully this will

[39:05] Make the fairgrounds go and

[39:07] Help everything go and we'll have this for many years to come

[39:11] Thank you, Mr. Flynn

[39:19] Tim Moore Maggie Avenue

[39:22] I'd just like to say I would encourage you to approve it. I think it's a win-win for the fairgrounds

[39:28] It's a two-year contract. They're gonna get a lot of improvements a lot of use a lot of

[39:33] Publicity, I think it's just a win-win and I think it's a great deal.

[39:38] Move on before with this thing.

[39:40] Thank you.

[39:44] Is there anybody, City Clerk online, by any chance?

[39:49] No, no, no, no.

[39:49] Okay.

[39:52] Kerry Abreaux, 1720, Renard Lane.

[39:56] I would just like to also emphasize that many years ago under passes,

[40:05] Council, and even the CEO of the Chamber years ago was very opposed to racing.

[40:13] And there were many facts laid out during that time that Bill Shaw, who owns CalMart,

[40:20] will tell you the two-day races in Calistoga, which happened on Memorial Day and Labor Day,

[40:26] were his best weekends of the year.

[40:29] because the campground was full of campers.

[40:32] The Great Lawn was full of huge RVs.

[40:37] Women came down and shopped, men followed them to have lunch.

[40:41] I mean, it really, it wasn't because there's loud noise

[40:44] that happens for three hours at night.

[40:47] That's number one.

[40:49] Many of the hotels, which I had asked this of the chamber years ago,

[40:55] did you go around and do a survey about how many people go

[40:58] go to the races, stay in the hotels, and the answer was no.

[41:02] And I said, well, there's a lot of race fans that have always stayed here.

[41:05] You know, they come here, they stay here, they like Calisoga for more reasons in racing.

[41:08] Racing's just a plus.

[41:10] It's a plus.

[41:11] You can get 5,000 people in the stands, they got to buy gas, they're going to buy food.

[41:15] I mean, I think we need to look at it as this is something that I was walking to the races

[41:21] back in 17, and a gentleman coming out of the Golden Haven goes, what's that noise?

[41:26] I said, oh, that's open wheel racing over at the racetrack and he goes, oh my gosh, are there tickets available?

[41:32] I'll go, yeah, probably and he goes, I'm going to go.

[41:34] I mean, he just showed up and heard that.

[41:35] So I think you have to give it a chance.

[41:37] I mean, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be considered of the people around that hear it.

[41:44] When the wind blows, you can hear it in Knights Valley.

[41:46] When the wind blows, you can hear it at Tucker Farm Center.

[41:49] But that's just one more thing that we do here that adds some more diversity to what this community can offer.

[41:55] Thank you.

[41:56] Thank you

[42:01] public comment is still open

[42:09] evening. I'm Y Ferris 1820 Grand Street. I've been here for a year and a half two years now with you guys and I'm just it's really excited.

[42:20] Firstly, I want to thank you for allowing us to get to this point. We've spent all spent a lot of time out there and I've been fortunate enough to know the hunt since I was a little kid just because they are the promoters of this, you know, the Louis and I've been on the facility

[42:35] and had them pull in multiple times in the last couple of months and can see how much

[42:40] they are, you know, interested in doing this here. They could put all this time in a

[42:45] gene effort into somewhere else and they're not. They're doing it here. They're willing

[42:49] to take on a lot that's going to help us improve this place dramatically just to have the race

[42:54] in Calisoga. So it's more than just an event for them and when someone's willing to back

[43:00] back our little town that much, I'm in support of it, so yes for me.

[43:05] Thank you.

[43:08] The topic is the consideration of the license agreement with motor sports concepts for

[43:16] the not-exclusive spring car racing.

[43:18] Is there any other public comment on this topic?

[43:23] Okay, let's close public.

[43:25] Yes.

[43:25] There, we have just one more personal comment.

[43:27] All right, just go to the online comment.

[43:34] Craig, do you hear us?

[43:36] I do, yeah, thank you.

[43:37] So this is Craig Freeders and we're currently rebuilding it 4530 Silverado Trail.

[43:43] So we're technically not in the city of Calistoga, but I've been monitoring this item for

[43:49] quite some time and we support this for the city of Calistoga because we think there

[43:54] needs to be another family friendly event.

[43:57] I've got twins that are 14 and when we attended prior to COVID, it was a great family experience.

[44:04] and yeah, we like the wine, we like the mud baths, we like the food, we like the community,

[44:09] but it's great to have another event that families in our town as well as in the area that can

[44:16] come to. So we just wanted to support that and let you guys know. Thank you very much.

[44:22] Thank you, Mr. Frieders, for checking in on with us. So let's welcome. One last call here in the

[44:34] City Clerk, anybody else online?

[44:36] No, no, no.

[44:36] Okay, let's close public comment on this one, and entertain a motion regarding this item.

[44:44] I would like to approve this item, I might make a motion.

[44:47] We have a motion.

[44:48] Thank you.

[44:49] A second.

[44:51] I second.

[44:52] Thank you.

[44:54] A second roll call, please.

[45:02] Council Member Eisenberg? Aye. Council Member Cooper? Aye. Council Member Gift? Aye. Vice Mayor Lopez-Rotega? Aye. Mayor Williams? Aye. Thank you, Council. Thank you, members of the public for your contributions, your comments. We're on to public hearing, item 6.1. May I request that we address item 6.2 first in case some consultants can get here for the first item? Okay.

[45:32] Okay, all right, so we have-

[45:33] It's on mobile vending, so we just would like to swap the order of the two public hearing items.

[45:38] Okay, so let's see, so you're suggesting a 6.2 pre-c, 6.1?

[45:44] Correct.

[45:46] I'm fine with that, then we have somebody coming to help us with 6.1, who's not here yet?

[45:51] Correct.

[45:51] Okay, all right, let's do that then, council, let's skip over to 6.2, and

[46:01] And this is about street and sidewalk vending ordinance, and Director Desmond is here.

[46:08] Good evening, Council.

[46:10] Yes, and Council heard this item on December 3rd of 2024.

[46:16] And the purpose of this item is to establish a comprehensive program for sidewalk and

[46:22] street vending that aims to benefit the entire city by promoting an entrepreneurship and

[46:28] creating economic opportunities for individuals to support themselves and their families.

[46:35] And as we outlined on December 3rd, we've spent quite a bit of time on our mobile food

[46:45] vending ordinance related to food trucks, one of the things we did not do is build into that

[46:53] provisions for other types of vending and particular cart vending.

[47:01] So the purpose of this item is to address all of those items and

[47:05] to make sure that those vendors have the appropriate permits in place so

[47:12] that we confirm that those uses are following all city ordinances.

[47:19] This is specifically one of the issues we've had a lot of trouble with is vendors who are operating outside of our foodware ordinance.

[47:28] So as a result, that's what this ordinance does.

[47:33] We also did some tune-ups from the December 3rd item to clarify what happens in the cow trans rights away.

[47:43] today and also provide some additional clarity around when mobile food trucks can operate

[47:53] on fairgrounds property as you know at this time we have two locations on fairgrounds

[47:59] property and we've revised the language in the ordinance to prohibit those uses during

[48:05] the times of events that have special event permits granted by the city and that's really

[48:11] I believe the extent of the changes that we've done to this ordinance since you last saw it and I'm available for questions.

[48:18] It sounds like a lot of fine tuning is going on on this one.

[48:22] Correct.

[48:24] Council members, are there questions for clarification?

[48:26] Just for clarification, not our opinion on this yet, and then we'll open it up to the public.

[48:30] During a public event, let's say the tractor parade, so there will be no vendors available around, you know, during the event.

[48:47] I don't believe it prohibits anybody from vending.

[48:51] The specific prohibit prohibitions that we placed on it were when mobile food trucks can operate in the two locations that the council's already identified on.

[49:01] on fairgrounds property.

[49:04] Okay, I'm a little confused here because I'm thinking about, you know, those street vendors

[49:10] that are pushing little cars walking during an event.

[49:16] So they will have to get the appropriate permits or be associated with the event themselves,

[49:21] but there's no prohibition on that.

[49:24] Okay.

[49:24] If that makes sense.

[49:25] Yeah.

[49:26] Yeah.

[49:26] Thank you.

[49:28] And this allows all the food vendors to be responsible for all the ordinances in Calistoga,

[49:37] including all the foodware ordinances, and that can be enforced.

[49:43] Yes, so the process is just to reiterate, the folks who would like to use this, you know,

[49:53] And then, then, globally, they will have to sign up for a use permit, they'll have to get a city business license.

[50:00] They will have to get a permit from EpiValley Environmental Health.

[50:06] And the NapiValley Environmental Health Permit is kind of, there's an annual permit.

[50:13] And then there's a one time permit where the Health Department inspects the actual facility or

[50:20] a car or vehicle that the vendor is utilizing for in the case of their vending food.

[50:28] So those fees, the local fees are going to be around $200 for the business license and

[50:34] the use permit.

[50:36] And then from the county, depending on what they're vending, the annual permit is between

[50:44] between $2 and $300 and the facilities inspection permit is between $6 and $1,200 and

[50:52] that is per facility or cart or vehicle that can be used anywhere in Napa County for

[51:01] the calendar year, or for year.

[51:05] Okay, thank you.

[51:06] I had a question back to the mobile food strikes on the fair ground if the event's applicants

[51:13] Since chooses to contract directly with the food drunk, this wouldn't prevent that from happening.

[51:18] That's correct.

[51:19] Okay,

[51:22] let's open two public comment.

[51:24] Is there anybody either online or here in the community center who'd like to comment on the ordinance pending before us?

[51:36] Okay, and somebody online?

[51:38] Yes,

[51:41] Marlin, do you hear us?

[51:43] Yeah, can you hear me?

[51:45] Yes, go ahead, do you have three minutes?

[51:46] Oh, thank you very much. Honorable Mayor and Council members, my name is Marlon Lara.

[51:52] I'm a legislative director for the California Restaurant Association. Thank you for giving me

[51:58] some time to be able to address you today. I sent over a letter providing some input on this ordinance.

[52:07] First of all, I want to say that the Restaurant Association appreciates all of staff's work and

[52:13] of the council's work to establish clear guidelines around sidewalk vendors and ultimately food safety.

[52:22] I think as brick and mortar restaurants were held to a really high standard on food safety and

[52:29] we want to see a lot of those same things applied throughout any food business. We believe that food

[52:38] safety should apply the same if you're in a brick-and-mortar restaurant or getting food from a sidewalk

[52:48] vendor or even sidewalk-bending on private property which we have seen that has become a problem.

[52:57] I guess the bulk of my comments today is wanting to ask and see if the council can consider

[53:07] understanding the same sort of buffer zones between brick and mortar restaurants and sidewalk

[53:16] vendors on private property and brick and mortar restaurants such as such as the same ones that

[53:25] are extended to distance requirements for for special events and farmer's markets.

[53:33] It's at the moment there's a 15 foot distance requirement

[53:38] from no vending from the entrance of any business

[53:42] in a similar 50 foot distance requirement

[53:45] between other food businesses such as restaurants

[53:49] and vendors on private property.

[53:51] I outlined some of the ordinances and sections

[53:56] that we're looking at.

[53:58] We're looking for the council to reflect

[54:01] like the same 200 foot distance requirement

[54:03] that are applied to special events and farmer's markets.

[54:08] Again, state law SB946 past in 2018

[54:14] allows the council to establish guidelines,

[54:18] objective guidelines that protect the health, safety

[54:21] and welfare of the community and businesses.

[54:24] We think that this is sort of modification

[54:30] that we think make sense that falls under those guidelines that protects the health safety and welfare of the community and just really appreciate your consideration. Thank you.

[54:40] Thanks, Mr. Lara, for your comments.

[54:44] Anybody else? Yes, the public. Yes, please.

[54:50] Hi, Mary Hastings. I'm coming to you too.

[54:53] That doesn't apply to you.

[54:57] I'm coming to you with a background in teaching and I just wanted to put out there that I have concerns about mobile carts being in such close proximity to schools, which I see happening in our town.

[55:10] Oftentimes parents would rather not have their children buying from carts that perhaps don't have the healthiest of food items, but it's very difficult to monitor when their kids are walking home from school on their own.

[55:22] and there's the cart like right next to them.

[55:25] So I wanted to just ask for some consideration

[55:28] on the council's part for thinking about that,

[55:30] as well as how many mobile carts there would be,

[55:35] and as much as we've discovered that three is like the max

[55:39] that the town seems to be able to handle

[55:41] with the larger trucks,

[55:43] I don't know how many smaller carts you might be thinking of,

[55:47] so I thought I'd just plant that seed to think about it.

[55:50] Thank you.

[55:51] Okay. Thank you. Are there any other public comments?

[56:00] And we'll check once more online.

[56:02] No, no, no, no.

[56:03] Okay. Nobody else online?

[56:05] And no other comments here?

[56:07] Let's close public comment and back to council members.

[56:10] Any questions or comments or a motion on this one?

[56:18] Regarding the comment and the letter that we just received from Mr. Lara.

[56:25] I mean, some sections here will be possible to do it right now or we need to come back to.

[56:37] My recommendation would be not to accept that recommendation.

[56:43] So I think, you know, my staff and myself put this ordinance together looking at other similarly size and

[56:52] and similar types of commercial zoning districts

[56:58] and came up with this number based on what other folks

[57:01] have adopted.

[57:03] I think the 200 foot buffer

[57:05] would given the scale of this community

[57:07] would be

[57:10] honoris to folks.

[57:12] So that's my recommendation.

[57:13] You guys can make a change now

[57:15] and we can bring it back.

[57:16] That's up to you guys,

[57:18] but we did put some thought

[57:21] into the metrics that are in the ordinance today.

[57:25] Okay, all right.

[57:26] So we have that, Councilman Cooper?

[57:29] Personally, I've always had reservations about this ordinance.

[57:33] I think that mobile food vendors are a service to a certain demographic in our town

[57:38] that really deserves to have the opportunity to culturally enjoy.

[57:43] That if we put a 200 foot regulation from restaurants,

[57:48] that's going to potentially drive them out of town, but concerned that, you know, $1,500 of health inspections and permits and fees, there's not a lot of margins, it's just, you know, so I understand that concerns and the reason behind it, but I still have reservations about there's really nothing I can do about it, but I think we do need to be sensitive that there's a population that really enjoys these specific food mobile vendors.

[58:11] I think this ordinance is really important because this is how we make sure that all the

[58:23] food vendors and all the restaurants at every entity in Calistoga is following the law

[58:30] and does not put people who purchase at risk of foodborne diseases.

[58:36] This means there will be safety inspections.

[58:38] It means that our foodware ordinance can be enforced and that we don't have this one group of vendors that is using Styrofoam

[58:49] while every restaurant food truck in town has got to use compostable takeout.

[59:00] It's a matter of fairness and I'm

[59:07] actually also was just listening to one of our comments from the public and I don't think we should change the ordinance right now, but I do think it may be worthwhile to inquire from the school district if they would like to have them if they're interested in proposing some sort of distance.

[59:32] that we might enforce at a future date and I

[59:43] actually don't think the kinds of

[59:46] food carts that are currently in Kalastoga are in too much competition with

[59:52] our restaurants. It looks like the primary product or the primary products are

[59:58] and

[1:00:00] And ready to eat. Candy.

[1:00:05] That's another reason to look at what the school district might be interested in. But I do support entrepreneurship. I do believe having jobs where people can honestly earn a living following the laws of Kalastoga is a really good thing. I did have one thought.

[1:00:30] I don't know for sure, but what I have heard is that many of the food carts that are currently in use in Calistoga are from one operator and would each would all the fees be by cart or by ownership.

[1:00:51] So that's a good question, and so that's a good question.

[1:00:58] And I think you're right, I think, but I don't, we didn't do any analysis of that.

[1:01:02] But the way that NAPA County permits these from their perspective is by cart or truck

[1:01:09] or facility as they call it.

[1:01:11] So that permit is,

[1:01:16] and you can use that facility anywhere in Napa County, but I think what we're looking for is somebody to get the local permit for each user here locally, independent of what the county is doing, what their actual car or truck or so forth.

[1:01:37] So, what does user mean?

[1:01:39] User is the person who is pushing the cart and selling the item.

[1:01:51] Thank you.

[1:01:51] Is that answer your question?

[1:01:52] I'm going to, yeah, I mean, it answered the last question, but the earlier ones have already

[1:01:58] forgotten, so you get away with that.

[1:02:00] So, if I can try to understand, if there's one owner who has five carts, does he need five permits?

[1:02:08] Yes.

[1:02:08] He does.

[1:02:09] Yes.

[1:02:10] By this ordinance.

[1:02:11] Okay.

[1:02:13] And if I may, I remember a recall now that one of the issues about Girl Scout cookies came

[1:02:20] up in December and we did insert a provision in there that exempts charitable organizations

[1:02:27] from this.

[1:02:28] Thank you.

[1:02:29] And council member, if you had a separate question.

[1:02:32] So this 1,500 or so fees annually, this would apply to the guy that walks around the pool with his ice cream thing on the hot day.

[1:02:43] Well, so it's a scaled, it's $600 to $1,200, where it's a county fee and they inspect the actual whatever it is, the card or the truck or whatever he's using to sell or vend his.

[1:03:01] And that's only for foods that are prepared.

[1:03:04] So if he's got just snacks, or just like wrap prepared things.

[1:03:09] But if it's prepared food, there's the fee goes up higher.

[1:03:17] But again, the local fees, and that's no matter what.

[1:03:19] So it's the $2 to $300 Napa County Environmental Health

[1:03:24] fee plus the inspection fee, which is anywhere from $6 to $1,200.

[1:03:27] depending on the scale and the type of ending that the individual is involved with.

[1:03:34] Thank you.

[1:03:36] So, you know, the fees are one thing, it's not just the fees, this is more of another

[1:03:41] example of imposing a green tariff on the population.

[1:03:46] Now we have to factor in the increase in cost of styrofoam and all of the food ordinances,

[1:03:51] which I understand, of course, are important for the environment.

[1:03:54] But at the same time, you sometimes have to look past that and, you know, there's a certain

[1:03:59] cost factor that they're bringing food to the community that really is about as inexpensive

[1:04:07] as you can get.

[1:04:08] And when you start adding these and stacking these at some point, they're going to have

[1:04:11] to translate, transfer that into the population.

[1:04:13] So I'm just going on record saying, you know, that's something we don't need to be aware of,

[1:04:17] too.

[1:04:19] Just when let's come in about enforcement, just to be sure, you know, that when somebody

[1:04:28] gets penalties for no doing what they're supposed to do, to be sure that, because what

[1:04:42] What happened is that most of these vendors, they don't have, it's not their own business.

[1:04:49] The owner of those little cars is a big corporation, which is out of Ara Calistoga, even

[1:04:59] out of the county.

[1:05:01] One of the fruit vendors that is in Calistoga, we know, is coming from either Modesto or

[1:05:09] where else is talked on and so it's a big corporation that just put people all over you know all

[1:05:17] over the Napa Valley so we need to be sure that the enforcement or the penalties they don't go

[1:05:23] to this the actual the people who's you know that's a great comment I totally understand we're

[1:05:30] going with this and so he goes to the corporation. The permit holder would be the corporation in the example

[1:05:35] you're giving and the, you know, the other, the person doing the vending is an employee of that corporation.

[1:05:43] So that's how we will.

[1:05:44] Yes, to be sure.

[1:05:46] Thank you.

[1:05:48] Other questions or comments?

[1:05:50] Council, thank you.

[1:05:51] Good comments.

[1:05:52] Good questions.

[1:05:53] I'm satisfied with this ordinance the way it's presented to us knowing that it can be modified if experience suggested would be better off in the direction.

[1:06:04] But for now, I'll make a motion that will be approved as it's presented to us.

[1:06:09] Is there a second on that?

[1:06:11] Second.

[1:06:12] Thank you.

[1:06:12] There's a motion in the second.

[1:06:14] Let's take a roll call, please, City Clerk.

[1:06:18] Council Member Eisenberg?

[1:06:20] Aye.

[1:06:21] Council Member Cooper?

[1:06:22] Nay.

[1:06:24] Council Member Gift?

[1:06:25] No.

[1:06:27] Vice Mayor Lopez Rotega?

[1:06:28] Aye.

[1:06:29] And Mayor Williams?

[1:06:30] Aye.

[1:06:31] Okay. Thank you, Council of the passes, three to two, council members gift, and Cooper dissenting.

[1:06:39] Let's go back to item 6.1.

[1:06:47] And, Director Desmond, are we okay to proceed with this?

[1:06:50] We are okay to proceed.

[1:06:51] Okay.

[1:06:52] So this item addresses the topic of development impact fee study.

[1:07:00] Yes,

[1:07:06] and this is another item that you got has been before you I think I believe is actually back in December also and we are here tonight to prepare up to go over the final version of the development infact fee study and I've got consultants here that are going to run the show for you and they as well as myself and director Rainer are here to answer any questions.

[1:07:34] you may have of staff.

[1:07:37] So with that, I will turn it over to Typhian from EPS.

[1:07:42] You ready to go?

[1:07:43] Great.

[1:07:45] OK, and welcome, sir.

[1:07:47] Good evening, Typhian.

[1:07:50] My name is Typhian Rice Evans with Economic and Planning

[1:07:53] Systems.

[1:07:55] And I think we were here.

[1:07:57] My colleague, Megan Gregory, was here a couple of months ago,

[1:08:00] giving you an initial presentation on the fees.

[1:08:03] I'm pleased to be back here.

[1:08:04] I believe we have our co-consultant from W trans daily and with lockers on the zoom connection.

[1:08:10] It was a little tricky getting in here tonight to Kater Stoker that is.

[1:08:17] So I'm going to kick this off and I think daily and I will do a combined presentation hopefully.

[1:08:25] Let me see.

[1:08:26] And if you could speak into the mic as much as possible.

[1:08:28] Yes, all right.

[1:08:29] Thank you.

[1:08:30] Let's see.

[1:08:31] So, yeah, so we're going to start off with daily and last time we presented to you the background analysis on several fees, the public safety, the cultural parks and recreation, the civic and city administrative facilities.

[1:08:49] We had it at that time, completed the transportation component. So, daily and with luck with WTrans, we'll present that to you in a little bit of detail.

[1:08:57] So then we'll bring it back together and kind of show you all the fees together what it looks like for your consideration.

[1:09:07] So, I don't, do we, do we have Dalyne on the line?

[1:09:12] I am here.

[1:09:13] All right, Dalyne, did you want to, did you want to start with this one or the next one?

[1:09:21] Let's see.

[1:09:21] I can start wherever you want.

[1:09:23] Okay, well, just, just, contextually, I think one thing we wanted to, to note for you all before daily

[1:09:29] and explains the transportation side is just the, with impact fees, there's a, you know, a question about

[1:09:35] how much new development do we expect to occur in the city? That is the development they book.

[1:09:40] We're asking to contribute towards a capital facility improvements. And so it's, it's nobody knows

[1:09:47] for certain, of course, exactly how much development is going to occur over the next 20 or so years.

[1:09:51] but this is the estimated amount of development based on the city's general plan and other

[1:10:00] kind of review of available documents. So we just wanted to note that, and what that

[1:10:05] means ultimately in the city is that we're estimating that you would have about, if all this

[1:10:10] development comes to pass, you'd end up with about 1,000 new residents, about 1,850 new employees,

[1:10:18] and about 450 new visitors.

[1:10:21] This is over a 20-year span?

[1:10:23] This is over a 20-year span.

[1:10:25] So we just want to kind of remind you of that

[1:10:27] because that's just a kind of framing piece.

[1:10:30] And now let me see if I think the next slide

[1:10:33] is getting into your work daily and you can ask me

[1:10:36] if you want me to move a slide forward, just let me know.

[1:10:41] All right, thank you.

[1:10:42] Well, good evening.

[1:10:43] My name is Dalyne Whitlock.

[1:10:44] I'm a senior principal with W. Trans and Santa Rosa.

[1:10:46] that we prepared the study. And I apologize for not being there like Tapeon. I got as far

[1:10:52] as Calistoga Road turned and went back across Santa Rosa and tried to come through down

[1:10:56] Mark West. And that was closed. Alexander Valley Road is closed. So I was I spent about an hour

[1:11:03] driving around Santa Rosa and never got any further than the east side. So I finally gave up and

[1:11:07] came home and figured I could I could remodiate in and and I but I do apologize for not being there.

[1:11:12] but I did give it a, a valiant try. So in, in order to determine the trip gender, in order to

[1:11:19] determine the fee per trip for your development impact fees, we start with how much development

[1:11:27] there is, which, which Davey on was just going through there. So we then take that development and

[1:11:32] use that to figure out how many new trips are those developments going to generate. So we have rates

[1:11:38] that are standard rates they're used nationally for single-family, residential, multi-family,

[1:11:44] a hotel, commercial, general, light industrial. So we took all of those various uses that are

[1:11:49] anticipated and multiplied by their applicable rates to come up with how many trips they would

[1:11:57] generate, both on a daily basis as well as during the kind of critical P&P care which seems to be

[1:12:04] the, you know, most important time or the time there's the most congestion in the city of Calistoga.

[1:12:10] So next year's slide. Next slide, please. So once we had the trips established,

[1:12:16] we started looking at what the project costs would be. So what are you trying to pay for with this

[1:12:20] impact fee? And we started out with a list that was about 100 lines long. So we picked up everything

[1:12:28] that was in your CIP, in your Active Transportation Plan,

[1:12:34] in your pedestrian plan, anywhere we could find projects,

[1:12:38] we pulled all of those into a single list.

[1:12:42] And then we started going through those with your staff.

[1:12:45] And some of them make sense to have in as part of this fee

[1:12:50] because they are, some were truly transportation.

[1:12:52] But there were things in the CIP that had to do with

[1:12:56] water, wastewater, parking, other other things that weren't strictly transportation or

[1:13:03] at least circulation.

[1:13:05] So we ultimately paired it down to this list of 12 line items.

[1:13:12] And some of those are our compilation of enumerous projects, for instance, the various

[1:13:16] pathways, sidewalks, and bikeways.

[1:13:22] We've left those rather vague so that the city has a lot of flexibility in terms of what order you do things and which which ones you choose to construct with the funds that are made available.

[1:13:36] So at the end of the day, we came up with about $33 million plus worth of projects that we're wanted to put into the traffic impact fee and one way or another.

[1:13:49] We then looked at how much of that cost is associated with new development versus how much of it is associated with existing residences.

[1:13:58] And so a lot of these things like a multi-use pathway and a pedestrian bridge, some of the a lot of those things there are benefit to existing residents as much as they are to future residents and businesses.

[1:14:12] and EPA calculated the amount of the ratio of new residents to existing residents and

[1:14:25] that was 20.44%. So we put 20.44% of the cost of all those future facilities into this

[1:14:33] fee. And so at the end of the day after we had taken out the things that had either,

[1:14:41] you

[1:14:42] for by something by this project versus by something else or if there was outside funding available and sometimes for some of these projects we know that there will be state funding or grants and other sources of funding. So after taking out the outside funding.

[1:15:00] And allocating a proportion of the fee to or the cost to the fee versus to existing residents. We ended up with over six and a half million dollars with the projects that would go into the transportation fee when it's set up. So next slide, please. The next step was then to figure out how to allocate those fees. We have a certain amount of number of trips. You saw that on the first slide I talked about. We have

[1:15:31] 1241 daily trips and 701 p-cara trips or we had 1241 p-cara trips, I'm sorry, but some

[1:15:41] of these items have a lot more benefit to residents than they do to commercial establishments

[1:15:46] for instance. So we ended up using some factors and this is consistent with how your current

[1:15:53] fee was done. We worked on that with EPS some years ago, and so we're doing the same basic

[1:16:02] approaches we did then in terms of assigning a residential uses, got a higher surcharge,

[1:16:10] and then like commercial uses where a lot of the people that would go to, for instance,

[1:16:15] a new store would either be drawn from existing traffic. So those trips, those aren't new trips,

[1:16:21] those are those are those are already existing trips but they're just drawing them in.

[1:16:27] So for all of the commercial uses we used factors to bring those down

[1:16:33] and then pro-rated their trips based on that and used the after we had done the discounts

[1:16:38] in the surcharges we ended up with 701 trips and that was the number we used to divide for the land use.

[1:16:47] one thing I do want to note is that for the trip generation rates, the housing is per dwelling unit. So we took an average size of both a single family and multi family dwelling unit.

[1:17:01] And use that to come up with square footage for dwelling units.

[1:17:05] to come up with the cost per square foot because that that's something new that the state is requiring that this be based on the size of it.

[1:17:16] The same thing was done with industrial where before we had just a winery and we could have been a 3000 square foot winery, it could have been a 30,000 square foot winery.

[1:17:23] So in this particular instance, we assumed a certain size and I believe was 10,000 square feet for the wineries so that we could relate that to the feed per square foot.

[1:17:34] So that it's consistent for all for the residential commercial industrial uses and then hotel and motel those are on per room, which is a pretty pretty standard measure.

[1:17:47] So let's see last slide, please.

[1:17:50] So this is just a comparison of what the costs were.

[1:17:56] the fees were from the 2014 study versus the current study and as you can see the residential

[1:18:03] has gone up 16% commercial went down 5%, which is 25 cents. Hotel Motel went up by 24%

[1:18:13] and then industrial went down quite a bit. I think the biggest reason the industrial went down

[1:18:17] is because we're now doing it per square foot, so we're not. It's not exactly apples to apples

[1:18:22] because we didn't do either residential or industrial weren't evaluated per square foot

[1:18:28] in 2014. So these were translated from the current fees which are per trip as opposed to per square

[1:18:35] foot. But now they're all put into square foot basis. So we did, the industrial land use was

[1:18:45] previously a winery and now we've made it just a generic industrial land use. So that you have

[1:18:51] We have a little more flexibility again in terms of what projects are assigned and where they go and with that, I think that's the last slide that I have, but I'm more than happy to answer questions.

[1:19:03] Thank you for that presentation. Council members, before we go to public comment, are there any clarification?

[1:19:11] Mayor, I believe we have a lot more presentation.

[1:19:14] Not too much more, but we have a little bit more.

[1:19:16] All right, if that's okay, sure, please proceed.

[1:19:20] Yeah, so what, so the thing we wanted to do is bring together what Dalyne just presented

[1:19:24] to you, along with the work we showed you last time, and just give you a kind of an overall

[1:19:30] synopsis of what the whole fee program looked like.

[1:19:33] So what you'll see up here is, on the residential side of things, you can see here a kind of

[1:19:41] compilation of the overall potential new maximum fee that we could place in residential development.

[1:19:49] And what you'll notice is that on the left hand side, we show the per unit, and on the right hand side,

[1:19:53] we show the per square foot. And as Dilly was saying, the way we typically develop those fees is on a per unit basis.

[1:20:01] But the state now asks us to translate that into a per square foot basis.

[1:20:05] So we do the per unit and we translate it dividing by 2,500 square feet into per square

[1:20:13] foot basis. So there you can see on the right hand side, the maximum fee we could now charge

[1:20:21] would be about $13.64 per square foot of residential development. And you can see the components

[1:20:28] of that. You can see the 429 transportation fee that Delina was talking about. And then you

[1:20:34] You can see the other components that we looked at last time in that kind of relative scale between fire,

[1:20:40] police, recreational city administration, and transportation fees.

[1:20:46] So, a man ripped in, if someone walks in and says you want to build a residence, and is it a fixed fee of $34,112, or does it depend on the dimensions of the structure?

[1:20:58] Exactly. It depends on the size. That was the state wanted it to be determined by size so the smaller units will now pay less and the larger units will pay more.

[1:21:08] Okay. And the maximum is going to be 34,112.

[1:21:14] No, that's just, that's for 2,500 square foot homes. So if you were to build a 5,000 square foot home, it would be more.

[1:21:23] So that's kind of in some ways those two technical studies coming together to show you the maximum amount.

[1:21:30] Here on the non-residential side you can see the kind of equivalent outcomes where you can see from industrial,

[1:21:41] industrial per square foot fee.

[1:21:43] I guess I'm starting one column over would be 825.

[1:21:47] and you can see the break down there between transportation and the other components.

[1:21:52] A retail would be $13.22, and an office would be $16.83.

[1:22:00] And then the hotel motel, we have it on our per room basis, that would be $11,800 per room.

[1:22:08] So those are the, you know, again, this is the technical analysis where we've done what,

[1:22:14] kind of the equivalent of what Danny was describing, put together capital improvement program

[1:22:19] plans, the development forecasts, recognize we can't charge new development for the existing

[1:22:24] development share. I think one of the last slides we have here is just to show you the overall change

[1:22:34] between if you would, if we adopt these fees the overall change between the existing

[1:22:39] and they're proposed and so you can see there are some, all the fees would increase,

[1:22:46] they would increase by different amounts based on this analysis we just conducted.

[1:22:55] And I think with that we now maybe move into discussion and yeah, questions all right.

[1:23:04] Okay. Council members, any questions, clarification questions, then we'll go to public comment.

[1:23:13] Okay, let's open for public comment, then.

[1:23:16] Anybody here in the community center tonight, like to?

[1:23:20] I mean, I'm happy to go comment. I do have several questions, but.

[1:23:23] Okay, well, okay.

[1:23:25] Sure. Council member gift.

[1:23:28] So, you're clarifying questions?

[1:23:30] Yeah, these are clarifying questions.

[1:23:31] So I'm looking at the agenda here, and on that first chart, it is kind of confusing.

[1:23:39] This isn't totally match up with the presentation, but under the summary of maximum capital facility,

[1:23:45] it outlines both per unit and per square foot, which while I understand that you're saying the state is starting per square foot,

[1:23:52] shouldn't that chart be updated?

[1:23:59] it's table one on my agenda.

[1:24:04] Let me see. You had it up at some point. Sorry to just dial

[1:24:11] down on something so specific for you but if you want to take a look at it. It's one of

[1:24:15] the very first table, table one. But it was not on there. It was on our agenda. Oh absolutely

[1:24:27] So, it's listing per unit and per square foot, but you're saying that the state is requiring

[1:24:32] per square foot.

[1:24:36] Yeah, exactly.

[1:24:38] So, in reality, the impact fee that scheduled you would adopt would be the right hand column

[1:24:43] with the per square foot.

[1:24:45] Okay.

[1:24:46] I was showing the per unit because that's in some ways it's where we do the analysis and come

[1:24:52] up with a per unit.

[1:24:53] And you are just basing that unit off the 2500 square foot.

[1:24:58] Yeah, well, so a lot of different, for example, a lot of the different demand factors are

[1:25:04] based on how many people per unit or how many trips per unit.

[1:25:09] So they kind of, you more naturally calculate a fee on a per unit basis because those are

[1:25:14] the kind of metrics you demand.

[1:25:16] But then, and so before the state passed AB 602 a couple of years ago, we would have just

[1:25:23] been presenting to you the left hand side of the per unit fee but now we have

[1:25:28] that on a per square foot basis so we dividing all of those by the 2500 so I was

[1:25:35] showing both of them but really what manages the one on the right.

[1:25:37] Great and that will be totally clear and what we're adopting here I'm sure.

[1:25:42] My next question then is specific to the applicability so if somebody is

[1:25:48] building a 2500 square foot home and then they're adding a 500 square foot

[1:25:52] garage, would it be based on 3,000 square foot, square feet, I mean, or would it just be

[1:25:59] the living space that this would be applied to?

[1:26:03] Yeah, so these fees apply to the living space, not garage spaces, so if you're building

[1:26:12] a brand new house, like your example, maybe a 3,000 square foot structure, but 2,500 is living

[1:26:19] that would be the, what the fees apply to.

[1:26:21] Okay, and then like something like a small expansion,

[1:26:26] like let's say a sunroom or just a small expansion

[1:26:29] on the home, would these fees be applicable to that as well?

[1:26:33] I mean, I think that is a policy question.

[1:26:37] Okay.

[1:26:40] And I've seen different cities do it different ways.

[1:26:43] Okay, I'll go back to staff on that.

[1:26:45] There's no problem.

[1:26:45] And then this might also be a policy question, but I'm not noticing, and it's really just for more public clarity and general information, because not, you know, people aren't paying attention into AB 68, for instance, we don't have the language that ADUs would only be paying this fee beyond the 750 square foot so that would that be more of a policy thing that we would need to adopt.

[1:27:15] I mean, that is, that is kind of state law.

[1:27:19] And so-

[1:27:19] Well, I mean, I understand that.

[1:27:21] I just mean that clarifying language.

[1:27:22] Yeah, we would need that, we would want to put that

[1:27:24] in your ordinance to make it clear.

[1:27:27] And if it isn't in our primary technical document,

[1:27:31] we can add that in there to make it clear.

[1:27:34] Great, thank you so much.

[1:27:36] Great.

[1:27:37] Thank you, Council Member Giff.

[1:27:38] Good questions.

[1:27:39] Other council members?

[1:27:41] Okay, let's go to public comment.

[1:27:43] then? Yes, Mr. Wilkes.

[1:27:58] Thank you. I would, Tim Wilkes, Cedar Street.

[1:28:03] I would like to first say that I'm not here to speak on behalf of the planning commission.

[1:28:09] I'm here just generally to ask a question.

[1:28:16] Callostoga, in terms of infrastructure, we all know is just terribly broken.

[1:28:22] And a lot of it from the fact of its age and a lot of it from decades of not paying attention.

[1:28:30] And the question I would like to ask then is, are these new fees,

[1:28:37] if you look at them and try to establish a nexus to what I will call a more not unusual city,

[1:28:48] You know, a newer town and the establishment of these fees is then the builder of a new home here paying substantially more because he's building in a broken city or an injured city as opposed to if he's building somewhere else.

[1:29:12] And if that is the case, then I think that we all know why middle income people can't afford to live in Calistoga.

[1:29:21] But if that, if there is no nexus there, then it begs the question of, are we going to penalize future homes because the cities so broken?

[1:29:37] That's my question.

[1:29:40] Thank you, Mr. Wilkes.

[1:29:41] Yeah, good question.

[1:29:41] Anybody else like to offer public comment and

[1:29:50] looks like, let's see, nobody online,

[1:29:55] and anyone else on public comment on this issue.

[1:30:01] Yes, sir.

[1:30:05] Why first? I'm 31 years old, and I am fortunate to have something here, but a lot of my friends that went to school with Mr. Eisenberg, being a principal, are trying to have something here. And as we know, we already have a shortage of homes. Some people have the ability to try to build something, but just very quickly looking at that number on the residential side from a number going from

[1:30:33] 24 or $22,000 to $34,000, the $12,000 tax increase is substantial on residential and we're trying to make it easier to have home to your being people that are from here so only thing is just the cost increase.

[1:30:50] Thank you.

[1:30:57] Public comments still open?

[1:31:01] Okay, let's close public comment and bring it back to council.

[1:31:04] Council member gift, you have some further follow-up questions?

[1:31:08] I do, but these are more for staff, so I don't know Laura if, or Greg, if you could maybe

[1:31:14] help me with my additional questions here.

[1:31:18] I'm pretty sure they're for staff.

[1:31:23] So one thing I would like to suggest and maybe now is not the appropriate time or place,

[1:31:29] it would probably be an amendment to the housing element in our general plan, but to

[1:31:34] address some of the concerns in the room tonight. If you guys will remember I helped to implement

[1:31:41] the affordable housing threshold to 160% of the AMI, but we don't really have a lot of

[1:31:47] policy in place to utilize that threshold. One of my suggestions would be as with other

[1:31:56] affordable housing that we make any projects exempt up to that 160% threshold so they wouldn't

[1:32:05] be paying this fee which would again help encourage some of that missing middle.

[1:32:09] So is now an appropriate time to address that or would I need to come back to yes?

[1:32:18] Yes, so your question then would be how does this apply to affordable housing development projects?

[1:32:24] I would like to because we already, because affordable housing is already exempt from

[1:32:29] these fees as it stands, I would like to increase that threshold to projects up to 160% of

[1:32:38] the AMI, which is currently in the housing element, but we don't really have a lot of language

[1:32:44] to speak to how we're utilizing that.

[1:32:47] So I think, so it would be appropriate tonight if the council wanted to give that direction,

[1:32:52] that could be done tonight, that fits in with the Brown Act component of this item.

[1:32:57] I think in terms of actually effectuating that in the language and not we would need

[1:33:01] to go study it, and then bring that suggested change back.

[1:33:06] Great.

[1:33:07] So do I have support in increasing the-

[1:33:09] Complete.

[1:33:10] Yes.

[1:33:10] I share why it's concerned-

[1:33:12] Absolutely.

[1:33:13] I'm not callous.

[1:33:13] And this would help address hopefully down the road and building policy around that missing

[1:33:19] middle which were all fighting so hard.

[1:33:20] So that's what that's one item.

[1:33:22] Thank you guys for this.

[1:33:23] I clarify for me, so you're proposing that these fees be not applied to any affordable housing structure that is

[1:33:37] that people up to under 60% of the-

[1:33:41] Area median income.

[1:33:43] The AMI.

[1:33:46] So anybody applying for an affordable housing structure

[1:33:49] and who has qualifies up to that under 60%

[1:33:55] would be exempt from paying these fees.

[1:33:58] Correct.

[1:33:59] And it would be for all of the fees.

[1:34:03] And we would be the equivalent

[1:34:06] of the same exemptions that the rest of our affordable housing portfolio are receiving would be my suggestion.

[1:34:14] And we would look at things like deed restrictions and stuff.

[1:34:17] That's where we would need to go back and think about.

[1:34:19] And absolutely. And as we know, just for conversations sake, most of the projects that are coming to us are receiving those tax credits and receiving that federal funding,

[1:34:30] And up to like 80% may be 120% of the AMI, so what we didn't expanding it from 160 was create our own local threshold.

[1:34:43] But now these are different ways that we can help incentivize those builds down the road, hopefully.

[1:34:49] So it looks, however, like these fees or these costs will have to be incurred and carried by somebody.

[1:34:55] So can those costs be taken from the Affordable Housing Fund?

[1:35:01] Can the money be taken from there to subsidize, to replace the amount that's exempted as suggested?

[1:35:12] The way mentioned, it seems like it could, but it also could be that these fees are all based on the capital improvement projects that staff have presented to the consultants.

[1:35:24] that we anticipate needing in this city over the span of 20 years.

[1:35:29] So it may be also that we revisit what some of those improvement projects are.

[1:35:35] And when I talk about capital, it's not capital improvement projects.

[1:35:38] It's facilities that this city is going to need to provide.

[1:35:44] And when I mention facilities, it's not specific to structures, but it's also vehicles and so forth.

[1:35:50] So it may be a combo of utilizing measured defense and also looking at ways are revisiting that list of wish list items that the city is looking for that we can.

[1:36:05] So you're suggesting that maybe all those items on the capital improvement list may not be need to be undertaken?

[1:36:11] It's a, you know, it's something that we need to bring back to you and have you guys confirm.

[1:36:16] Or that not necessarily they wouldn't need to be because we've already reduced the list of them, but that we just might not be able to potentially.

[1:36:24] I would say, you know, what is the most important concern is it to provide housing for the missing middle, or is it to extend some of the capital improvement projects down the road a little ways to that end?

[1:36:35] You know what is our priorities in town and I agree with Councilwoman Giff that you know

[1:36:40] We need to really focus on providing the means for the the middle income people here in town to build homes

[1:36:46] I think that this worth compromising potentially and just to clarify this kept to this council

[1:36:51] We don't have people running to our gates to build

[1:36:55] Housing to that 160

[1:36:57] Present AMI this is a really unique position that we're in and I'm looking to our neighbors like Hildsburg for instance

[1:37:03] since that has adopted a similar threshold,

[1:37:05] but is struggling with getting that development.

[1:37:08] And so we wouldn't be building 100 houses overnight.

[1:37:11] And these fees for this mystical person

[1:37:15] who's building a 2,500 square foot house,

[1:37:19] which very few of us live in, they're

[1:37:24] not going to be paying that huge amount.

[1:37:28] And in relation to what they're doing,

[1:37:30] if you come in here to Calistoga,

[1:37:32] You're building a $2 million house.

[1:37:35] The addition in fees is not a significant part of your building costs.

[1:37:41] So I think Councilmember Giff's idea is a wonderful way to target where the need is and

[1:37:50] allow the fees to proceed where they are for the people who come to build very expensive

[1:37:59] homes.

[1:37:59] those aren't the homes that are going to fit into people at 160%.

[1:38:06] They're going to be 1,200 square foot houses at the best.

[1:38:16] So I concur with your suggestion, and

[1:38:20] I don't think we should worry so much about the increase in fees for

[1:38:26] or the larger, much larger homes that the 2500 square foot sample that the calculation was taken from.

[1:38:37] I do have a question about our fees in relation to similar communities.

[1:38:46] This is a bit in reference to Mr. Wilkes' concern.

[1:38:50] I understand that you're building the fees out of what we need to do.

[1:38:54] which does is a factor in our infrastructure needs.

[1:39:01] But after you do that, where are we with similar cities?

[1:39:07] Where are we in the big picture in the North Bay on the fees?

[1:39:20] So, let's see, so we did, we did compare and perhaps Typhians a better person to answer

[1:39:28] this, but we did look at, you know, what St. Lena is doing and our fees are higher than

[1:39:33] what St. Lena's are doing.

[1:39:35] The one thing that's important to note is that we haven't done this study for 10 years.

[1:39:45] So, it's out of date by a couple of years and going back to the relationship between what

[1:39:54] Kalastoga's fees are and what's insanely nice are, you know, the fees are higher, but

[1:39:59] you know, we didn't do an analysis on what their wish list was for the next 20 years.

[1:40:05] So it's going to be different because what their wish list is very much, probably very much

[1:40:09] different than what we are.

[1:40:10] But I don't know if that's enough, but I wanted to elaborate on that, be helpful.

[1:40:17] Yeah, I just wanted to add, so there is a, like you're suggesting, there's kind of a variation.

[1:40:23] Every city develops its own capital improvement list, right?

[1:40:26] They end up with different, they have different bases of new development that are occurring.

[1:40:31] I did look into more detail into St. Helena's fees, which we're interesting.

[1:40:36] up until two years ago, they had fees that were considered higher than yours.

[1:40:42] They did a refresh, and they determined that what they needed was not a lot less than

[1:40:50] what they had previously envisioned.

[1:40:52] So they brought their fees a fairways down.

[1:40:56] So there, for a long time, they've had fees well above your existing fees.

[1:41:01] Now their fees are below.

[1:41:03] And so I think that obviously is I wasn't in the room when they were discussing that, but they clearly determined that either they've built much of what they want to build or they specifically chose not to fund projects with impact fees.

[1:41:22] So anyway, so that's that's the that's a central even story there are I think we I think we can look at different fees some fees some communities would have fees above yours or parks but below yours for please and fire they kind of very

[1:41:37] Fair amount

[1:41:39] Yeah, that was just a couple of additional notes.

[1:41:43] Would it be, Director Desmond, would it be onerous to project approximate costs of a change

[1:41:52] that the council is interested in?

[1:41:56] There would be, how much more we would collect, the city would collect if the fees were in

[1:42:03] in place as proposed here, compared to how much revenue would be accumulated if those units were exempted.

[1:42:21] Is that difficult to compute or?

[1:42:23] I couldn't compute that at this time and I doubt Typhion could either or I don't know if we'd have to make a,

[1:42:32] You could run scenarios, right?

[1:42:34] So you were projecting about 450 new units in Callis Doga over the next 20 years, and so

[1:42:42] we would have to make a guess of, this Councilman was mentioning, it's a little hard to know

[1:42:47] exactly how much it's going to be billed, but so you could say, what if 50 of those were

[1:42:52] fell in that bucket, what would we lose, but not with certainty?

[1:42:57] Okay.

[1:42:57] Sound like the Council is interested in this change that Councilmember would give to suggest

[1:43:01] it?

[1:43:03] I think these might be more staff specific, though, but I'm just curious for staff, is there a cost center for the admin fees associated with this?

[1:43:15] Like, where are they showing up in the budget?

[1:43:18] Yeah.

[1:43:23] I'm not sure I understand the question.

[1:43:24] I'm sorry.

[1:43:27] So, the administrative fee that is on, let me...

[1:43:32] Yeah, so what we charging are we put in a 2% percent yeah, and that's I think the questions when that goes right yeah

[1:43:39] Where does it go so is there a cost center for it? I mean does this need to be codified like all of our other fees

[1:43:44] Like is it going to fall under our development impact fees?

[1:43:48] Where are we going to thank you? Thank you so much

[1:43:51] And that is reported in the AB 1600 report that was adopted in December

[1:43:55] Okay, every year you will see a balance of the

[1:43:59] to develop an impact fees and what they're going to be used for.

[1:44:02] But in the admin fee specifically.

[1:44:04] Yes.

[1:44:05] Okay.

[1:44:05] Great.

[1:44:05] Thank you so much.

[1:44:06] And those are all my questions.

[1:44:08] Thank you.

[1:44:08] That's it.

[1:44:08] Okay.

[1:44:09] And then follow up questions.

[1:44:11] So if this, supposing we adopt this schedule as it's proposed, how long, you know, are

[1:44:19] these numbers applicable, you know, cost change in a year from now?

[1:44:22] They're going to be different in two years.

[1:44:23] and so it's been 10 years and are they fixed, you know, these numbers fixed and then, or can the CPI, the cost of living be applied to them?

[1:44:36] How often do we have to call you back to justify these fees?

[1:44:41] So yeah, so I think you I guess two points one is you do have the option of having an annual CPI index

[1:44:48] Which is what a lot of cities do and is generally seen as advisable right just to keep up with inflation

[1:44:53] And then you know the last time we did this was about 10 years ago there used to be some flexibility but

[1:45:00] Now the new AB 602 says you need to take a more detailed look, at least every eight years. So you don't have to see me or anybody else like me for eight years if you don't want to, but at that point you, you would need someone else to come back in and look at your next study in more detail just to see how it's all panning out. And if you add to that answer, you couldn't beyond what in ordinance adopts it with this next study, providing the basis for it, you couldn't ever go above that.

[1:45:29] You could, without doing another nexus study.

[1:45:32] But could the CPI be applied to it?

[1:45:35] Yeah.

[1:45:36] Above the...

[1:45:37] Yeah, but it doesn't, I was just looking at it.

[1:45:39] It doesn't look to me like we have,

[1:45:41] it doesn't look to me like we have incorporated the CPI

[1:45:43] just in our, in our resolution.

[1:45:48] So could that option be incorporated into this

[1:45:51] and the council could exercise it or not?

[1:45:55] As the years go by?

[1:45:57] Yeah, I think I've seen so.

[1:45:58] Oh wait, here we go.

[1:45:59] I'm sorry.

[1:46:00] So adjustments.

[1:46:01] Are you reading this and you're not reading something?

[1:46:02] Okay.

[1:46:03] Any fee,

[1:46:08] I take that back.

[1:46:11] We can adjust them.

[1:46:14] It is in the ordinance.

[1:46:15] We can adjust them.

[1:46:16] Okay.

[1:46:17] So it's not exactly by the CPI.

[1:46:18] It's much more complicated than that.

[1:46:20] But there could be an annual adjustment, yes.

[1:46:23] Okay.

[1:46:25] And so that's filled into this proposal that we're contemplating.

[1:46:28] Yes, it's going to refer to the engineering news record, US 20, city's average construction cost index for June, proceeding the increase one year prior there too.

[1:46:40] And do I understand supposing the council wants to exempt affordable housing at this time, but three years from now it doesn't want to exempt them.

[1:46:50] Can that be changed, being made as well, that a council decision at the time?

[1:46:53] I mean, I think it depends on how you write the ordinance.

[1:46:58] I think we would need legal advice on that.

[1:47:01] That's it.

[1:47:01] All right.

[1:47:02] So that's an internal to Calistoga then.

[1:47:06] Yes.

[1:47:08] Yes.

[1:47:08] Quick question.

[1:47:09] Implementing these new fees, it will affect the current projects that they are on the

[1:47:18] works like, for example, the yellow rose of projects that we just talk, it depends.

[1:47:26] Okay.

[1:47:27] I'm not aware that if they have a development agreement or not, if they do, then their

[1:47:32] fees are locked into the time at which that development agreement was approved.

[1:47:36] Okay.

[1:47:37] So it's for future, it's not like if a project already has an agreement, it will not affect

[1:47:51] So this would be for projects moving forward.

[1:47:54] But anything already entitled would be under the previous, pretty much.

[1:48:01] It's complicated, but absolutely sort of, yes, yes.

[1:48:05] Councillor McCoofer.

[1:48:06] Yeah, one last question.

[1:48:07] If we do end up running the calculations on the last revenue of exempting the 160 AMI,

[1:48:12] can we also project forward with the potential to recover that last revenue on increasing the

[1:48:17] fees to some degree for the others, that makes sense.

[1:48:22] If we're going to run that assumption of calculation,

[1:48:25] we figure out what that loss revenue figure is by making that exemption.

[1:48:28] Can we then calculate how much we need to increase the fees to recover that across the board?

[1:48:34] So we wouldn't, I guess the equivalent, right, the loss revenue we would need to recover from somewhere.

[1:48:42] But when you're not allowed to recover it from like increasing the fees, right?

[1:48:47] We've already established a maximum.

[1:48:50] Okay.

[1:48:51] So do I understand council that we want to ask staff to bring this back to us with the rewritten

[1:48:59] provision that has projects up to 160% of the AMI be exempt?

[1:49:06] I would highly recommend that you go ahead and introduce this, move this forward

[1:49:10] and incorporate into a motion and direct us to look into how we can do this and to bring

[1:49:17] it back as soon as possible with that modification. I just get more and more nervous that a decade

[1:49:25] has already gone by and we may have some larger projects that we would like to capture.

[1:49:32] So let's see. I'll take a stab at this. Council correct me if I'm going straight. I'll

[1:49:41] make a motion that we approve this with the condition that staff modifies it to exempt

[1:49:49] units, affordable units, which are up to the 160% AMI threshold.

[1:49:57] Can I make a suggestion based on what I think I'm hearing the Council intent is?

[1:50:04] I think what I'm hearing is to adopt the resolution as presented.

[1:50:10] In addition, look at how we can incorporate exemptions up to 160 per cent for affordable

[1:50:17] health, for middle income housing units, and bring that back.

[1:50:23] Okay, so that way we are sure that if there is a new project that is coming in the future

[1:50:32] They will be we will cut these fancy cures. I mean this

[1:50:37] Feast secure. I'm comfortable with that and knowing how I operate. I won't forget it. So

[1:50:44] Okay, all right, so there's a motion second. Well, second. Thank you

[1:50:51] Councillor Cidiclurk.

[1:50:55] Councilmember Eisenberg.

[1:50:56] Aye.

[1:50:58] Councilmember Cooper.

[1:50:59] Aye.

[1:50:59] Councilmember Gift.

[1:51:00] Aye.

[1:51:01] Vice Mayor Lopez Roteca.

[1:51:02] Aye.

[1:51:03] And Mayor Williams.

[1:51:04] Aye.

[1:51:05] Thank you.

[1:51:05] Thank you for coming and visiting and working with us tonight.

[1:51:09] And thank you, Dalyne, for your help.

[1:51:12] And just to kind of set some expectations, I'll need to work with Director Desmond on what

[1:51:17] you're asking for is fairly complicated.

[1:51:19] I know it sounds simple, but it's actually fairly complicated in terms of the language

[1:51:23] and the things that need to get considered to fold into the whole package.

[1:51:28] And so I want to, we're going to need some time to let you know when we could come back

[1:51:32] with any changes.

[1:51:34] That's okay.

[1:51:34] I'll follow up in an email with all the things you talked about.

[1:51:38] Okay.

[1:51:39] Thank you.

[1:51:39] Thank you, Director Desmond, for your help on this.

[1:51:43] Let's see.

[1:51:44] We're on to the category of general government.

[1:51:48] So here, I'm sorry, I'm asking for indulgence one more time.

[1:51:53] If we could try and quickly address, at least while we have a representative here from

[1:51:58] NVTA to address item 7.3 about renewal of the shuttle agreement, we are about to lose

[1:52:07] a representative who might be able to answer some pertinent questions since she's going

[1:52:12] to take the bus.

[1:52:12] Okay. All right, very good.

[1:52:16] So let's see, so we're going to item 7.3.

[1:52:20] The subject here is the Napa Valley Transportation Authority Shuttle Services and Assistant City Manager.

[1:52:29] Welcome.

[1:52:31] Thank you very much and I'm going to move this quickly along because we do have a tight time for him.

[1:52:34] She needs to catch her bus and leave here by 810.

[1:52:39] So we thought by eight, so I thought we had seven minutes, but a couple more than that, so that's why I'm going to keep my porch short.

[1:52:47] And this was brought in front of you on January 14th.

[1:52:51] Unfortunately, I was sick and not here to shop at this along.

[1:52:55] During that being brought forward, there were two issues or concerns that got brought up.

[1:53:00] One was about some stops at NVTA.

[1:53:03] There was a belief that it wasn't making at the Highlands Church area.

[1:53:09] Part of the current agreement and the proposed agreement, it allows upon mutually agreed upon between NVTA and the city to make changes in the routes and things like that.

[1:53:18] And that has been done.

[1:53:19] So the issue regarding being able to drop off at Highlands Church has been resolved.

[1:53:24] That is now a viable stop to be able to drop people off.

[1:53:27] Thank you.

[1:53:27] The second issue that came up had to do with a came up from council regarding electric shuttle buses and where we are with that and so I'm not going to give a summary I'm going to allow

[1:53:39] Rebecca Shank she is the NVTA program manager for transit and ADA compliance to come up and answer any questions the question that you had regarding that.

[1:53:50] Thank you.

[1:53:52] Miss Shank thank you for joining us nice to see you at Valley here.

[1:53:55] So, yes, on the electric vehicle front, so there was, there is some history to this in

[1:54:03] that NVTA did acquire, if you're familiar with St. Helena or with Yantville, on a 30-foot

[1:54:08] electric vehicle with a grant that we had in the 2022 time frame, and we deployed those.

[1:54:16] At that time, when we had gone for that grant in 2017, we asked kind of the question to

[1:54:21] Calistoga Council at that time if they would also like to be included in that particular

[1:54:26] grant application that the time and the thinking was and I think it makes some sense was

[1:54:30] that that vehicle was too large to serve as Calistoga and the mobile homes the way that you

[1:54:36] wanted to. So since that time, right, there's been some evolution in the electric vehicle market

[1:54:42] and there is one vehicle now that's approved by the Federal Transit Administration that's closer

[1:54:48] sort of 23 feet long that could be used in your jurisdiction.

[1:54:52] So what we're looking at doing is you'll get a replacement diesel vehicle because we had

[1:54:57] made an application for that in the 2022 timeframe.

[1:55:02] That will be the replacement.

[1:55:03] At the same time, whenever this particular grant called 5310 opens up in July, we would apply

[1:55:10] for that to get to or one or two, I guess you could make that decision.

[1:55:16] Calistoga vehicles that would be 23 foot would be electric.

[1:55:19] At the same time, we've been working with your public works department to identify a place to charge, because we need a location here.

[1:55:25] We can't be going back down to Napa to charge, and we've worked with in Yantville and

[1:55:31] St. Helena, they have charging locations so we would maybe work in your public works yard to install a charger.

[1:55:37] So that also has a relatively long time frame, and we would work on that at the same time as the grant.

[1:55:42] So it would be one of these things we'd apply for the grant and basically in a three-year

[1:55:46] period, if we received the grant, you would have the vehicle because they built them

[1:55:50] to scratch and the charger.

[1:55:52] But nothing in this agreement, I guess, yeah, precludes electric vehicle, non-electric vehicle,

[1:55:57] et cetera.

[1:55:57] It's all about kind of operations.

[1:56:00] So it sounds so will the calisogal be eligible to receive or would we replace the diesel vehicle

[1:56:05] with the electric one?

[1:56:07] So what we would end up doing, it will be branded for calisogas.

[1:56:10] So what would happen is we would say, hey, we have these other vehicles in our fleet that need to be replaced, right?

[1:56:16] And so we'd put those ones up in our grant agreement.

[1:56:19] We'd replace them with the electric vehicle, but we'd just do a swap, right?

[1:56:23] We'd take the Callistoga diesel vehicle, we'd rebrand it as our vine-go vehicle, and no one's worth for wear.

[1:56:30] So considerably on this outline within three years,

[1:56:35] Callistoga may have an electric shuttle available.

[1:56:38] Yeah, and we would let you know when we apply and then we'll let you know the results of that we've had some success in the past with this particular program

[1:56:45] So we will see if we luck out again great council members questions

[1:56:52] This is a public any public comment here or online

[1:57:00] Okay, let's close public comment and no further questions. Let's bring it back to council and the other comments here

[1:57:09] All right, then let's make a motion, let's have a motion to approve this to adopt the resolution is what we're looking at here

[1:57:17] Is there a motion for that? I move to adopt the resolution. Thank you councillor Eisenberg. We have a second by Councilman the Councilwoman gift and all in favor

[1:57:25] Aye. Opposed? It passes unanimously. Thank you for coming up here and thank you for awaiting on this item.

[1:57:35] Thank you for that indulgence, and thank you to the county staff who are here for the next item for waiting through those changes.

[1:57:46] So we're on 7.1.

[1:57:52] Good evening, Council.

[1:57:53] We will be having a couple of presentations from County of Napa, from Tracy Schultz about money in and it's regarding the property taxes and the VLF swap.

[1:58:07] Okay, welcome.

[1:58:07] Good evening. Thank you. My name is Tracy Shulzi. I'm your Napa County

[1:58:12] Otter Controller and with me is Bob Minahan, our Treasurer Tax Collector. We're

[1:58:16] here to talk about our riveting property tax. So we're just going to make this

[1:58:22] exciting for everybody in the audience here. So we've been doing this together

[1:58:26] for about 17 years. He was the assistant in my office for about 13 years before we

[1:58:34] can't property tax or treasure tax collector.

[1:58:37] And so he's very familiar with this.

[1:58:38] So when it gets complicated, I give it to him.

[1:58:41] So I'm just going to go over a high level overview

[1:58:43] of property tax and unraveling the puzzle

[1:58:47] of what property tax is.

[1:58:49] We'll talk about your budget, just an overview.

[1:58:52] You know your budget much better than I do.

[1:58:54] How we get to where we're at with property tax, what our estimates

[1:58:58] are for property tax for $24.25.

[1:59:01] And then we get into the fun stuff.

[1:59:03] ERAF, Education Revenue Augmentation Fund, VLF, which is vehicle license fees and then

[1:59:09] we'll do some review.

[1:59:11] So just a high-level overview.

[1:59:13] This is your major revenue categories for your general fund.

[1:59:18] So this is your discretionary, mostly discretionary dollars that you have.

[1:59:22] So this came from your Adapt to 2425 budget.

[1:59:26] You have approximately 20 million dollars and you can see the majority of your budget or

[1:59:31] you revenues discretionary dollars which can be used for general services is about $12 million

[1:59:36] from your transient occupancy tax. Congratulations because that's a great number. You'll be young

[1:59:41] film. And then we go into the next highest which is property taxes, about 3 million. And then

[1:59:49] your other discretionary is your sales tax and your charge for services offset the fees for services

[1:59:58] is that you already, um...

[2:00:00] I have the expenses for. You get state and federal and other government revenues there for probably program, grant revenues that you do. And then there's other, which is like miscellaneous, like interest earnings and rental fees and things like that. Your major expenditures of what these funds all are spent on is a pretty, pretty well balanced graph here. And you can see that the majority of your discretionary revenue and

[2:00:29] And again, this is discretionary, meaning it's your monies that you decide how to use

[2:00:34] for general community service that you provide in the city.

[2:00:39] You can see the biggest pieces of police and fire, so public safety, which is very common.

[2:00:44] It's what we do.

[2:00:46] Public works, parks and recreation, administrative and general government, community development,

[2:00:51] and then those transfers are things in between different funds based on governmental accounting

[2:00:56] rules.

[2:00:57] Any questions?

[2:00:58] Is this familiar?

[2:00:58] Okay. So starting into property tax, how did we get here? Well, we had pre in 1978, we were under a pre-proctor 13 tax levy way of creating property taxes.

[2:01:15] So everybody would submit their budgets and we would determine at that time how much we had a levy on everybody's property in order to make our budget revenues whole.

[2:01:24] In 1978, we had prop 13, which limited the property tax to 1% of your assessed value.

[2:01:33] So the components of prop 13, again passing in 1978, and instead of that levy, we restricted

[2:01:39] the property tax to 1% of assessed valuation as of the 1975 lean date.

[2:01:47] So this went back to 1975, what the assessed values were at that time.

[2:01:51] It limited annual assess valuation to the lesser of 2% or your consumer price index of CPI.

[2:01:59] We have what's called a portion of factors.

[2:02:02] That's how we, a portion of the property tax revenue that comes in,

[2:02:07] based on the tax levy from 1977 to 1978,

[2:02:12] and the geographical boundaries of each jurisdiction.

[2:02:15] So you have the cities, the town, the school districts, those are jurisdictional boundaries.

[2:02:19] And those are called AB 8 factors.

[2:02:22] In Napa County, schools receive about 60% of all property taxes at that time.

[2:02:29] Local agencies received the other 40%.

[2:02:33] For this Prop 13, it reduced property taxes throughout the state by $7 billion in the

[2:02:38] first year, and that was the whole purpose of it.

[2:02:41] That was the goal of the Prop 13 was to reduce the amount of property taxes.

[2:02:47] Of course, there's complications that include annexations, as boundaries change, redevelopment

[2:02:53] agencies that came into play any time that you have changes of ownership, you have supplemental

[2:02:58] tax bills.

[2:02:59] So we estimate your revenues, but of course it changes.

[2:03:04] So let's look at what we have in NEPA County.

[2:03:08] So this is really hard to see, but each one of these is a taxing jurisdiction.

[2:03:12] So on the top you have a breakdown of the county.

[2:03:16] Again, this is based on the levies that were established back in 1975.

[2:03:23] So Napa County, we have fire, the library gets a piece of the property tax and then fire protection.

[2:03:29] There's non-structural fire and fire protection.

[2:03:31] So that goes to the county.

[2:03:33] Then you have the cities in the town.

[2:03:35] And then you have special districts.

[2:03:36] like Barriessa, Monticello's cemetery district, mosquito abatement, all the special districts that we have at the time of this Prop 13.

[2:03:46] And then you have all the school districts.

[2:03:51] So looking at the pie, how does the property tax get divided?

[2:03:57] Schools, after all the shifts, and this is as of today.

[2:04:00] So this is as growth and changes and boundary changes.

[2:04:02] schools are getting approximately 66% are estimated revenue for 2425.

[2:04:10] You see there is 556 million, so schools are getting approximately 366 of that million of that.

[2:04:18] The county is the next with the 127 million, the cities in town share the 57 million and

[2:04:26] then the special districts get about 10 million.

[2:04:28] So, honing in on that city's in town pie, this is how that is broken down.

[2:04:35] So, there's the 55 million for the city's in town.

[2:04:38] City of Napa has the biggest portion.

[2:04:42] And then you can see their American Canyon, St. Helena, Calestoga, and Town of Gapville.

[2:04:48] So, I know this is fast and there's a lot here, but hopefully it's just kind of

[2:04:56] your toes in to see what the property tax process is.

[2:05:00] Then we get into the complex things.

[2:05:02] What are this ERAF and VLF swap that we've been hearing about?

[2:05:07] So ERAF stands for Educational Revenue Augmentation Fund.

[2:05:13] This really is a mechanism by the state to bail them out

[2:05:17] from their deficits.

[2:05:19] The state says we need to fund schools.

[2:05:22] It's a state's obligation to make sure that the schools are funded.

[2:05:25] We don't have the money as a state.

[2:05:28] We can't take local property taxes away from the county

[2:05:32] of the cities that the special districts who can't take them.

[2:05:35] So what we're going to do is we're going to create one

[2:05:37] of those taxing entities that I showed you that long list

[2:05:39] and call it ERAF.

[2:05:41] And we're going to tell you how to shift money

[2:05:44] from all the taxing jurisdictions into this bucket.

[2:05:48] So they did that three times.

[2:05:50] In 1992 and 1993, they shifted $3.6 billion statewide into this bucket so that the local

[2:05:59] property tax entities were really paying for the school obligations that the state was

[2:06:04] supposed to pay for.

[2:06:05] In 1993 and 1994, they did another shift, and then in 0.4 and 0.5, they did a third.

[2:06:11] The 0.405, they shifted, it was just a two-year shift, so that no longer exists.

[2:06:15] But the first two shifts still exist today and they're in perpetuity, there's nothing

[2:06:20] that says that they're going to stop that.

[2:06:22] So again, it's taking local taxpayer dollars, putting them into a new tax ingestiction called

[2:06:28] ERAF, and that is really being used to pay for the state's obligation to fund schools.

[2:06:37] So some terms, and when Bob comes up and talk about, you're going to see some redundant

[2:06:45] because this is very complicated and we want to make sure that it sticks, so we might, you might hear things a couple times, but I think it'll be worth your while.

[2:06:54] So there's some terms here that you will hear, as we talk about this, one is the state revenue limit. That is the guaranteed minimum amount that the state will fund per pupil for the schools.

[2:07:08] basic aid school districts. That's if property tax allocated originally, remember my list

[2:07:15] of all the tax interstiction, if that property tax amount that was allocated exceeds or is equal

[2:07:24] to what that school was guaranteed to get by the state, then they're basic aid. They don't need

[2:07:31] any more money. Property tax filled the state's obligation, they don't need to get any more money.

[2:07:37] If it's non-basic aid, that means that the school district has less than that per-pupil

[2:07:44] revenue limit and then the state needs to fill that bucket.

[2:07:48] How does the state fill that bucket?

[2:07:50] They take it out of our e-Raff and fill that bucket, okay?

[2:07:54] So that's e-Raff is a new taxing entity that shifted the local taxes and we have to use

[2:08:00] that e-Raff to fill if a school is lower than the revenue limit that the state sets.

[2:08:06] Does that make sense?

[2:08:08] Okay.

[2:08:10] If we have excess ERAF, meaning we shifted everything

[2:08:14] from the state or everything from the tax

[2:08:16] and jurisdictions down to this ERAF bucket,

[2:08:21] if when we fill up the obligation, the gap that

[2:08:26] the schools need, if we have extra, we give it back

[2:08:29] to the tax and jurisdictions. So that's where we get

[2:08:32] Excess ERAF and NAPA County is one of five counties out of the 58 that are in the situation.

[2:08:40] So every year I shift property taxes from all the local jurisdictions, put them in this ERAF bucket based on all these state calculations.

[2:08:49] We do the whole state, our school reporting, get their average daily tenants, know the revenue limit, fill up whatever bucket is left.

[2:08:58] And then there's money left over, so I'm able to then return those taxes to all the jurisdictions that gave them based on that same thing and that same allocation.

[2:09:11] Question.

[2:09:13] So even if a school district during the city in which the school district is, is if the school district's basic aid, they're still getting charged e-raft to subsidize the non-basic aid districts in the county.

[2:09:30] So you bring up a very good point back to that chart with the list with all the numbers which I won't bring because you can't see it anyway.

[2:09:39] All the money that's collected is put into one pot, the 1% up and down the whole county is put into a pot.

[2:09:46] I have to take those allocations, those AB 8 factors, based on that tax base that happened in 1970s,

[2:09:55] late 70s, and allocated based on evaluation, assess evaluation growth.

[2:10:00] And again, districts changes and all this stuff, so it's a complicated formula.

[2:10:05] But those percentages, they're tweaked every year, but they're pretty consistent each year,

[2:10:10] you know, when you talk about the amount of money we're talking about.

[2:10:13] So the money all gets collected, regardless of where you live, and it gets spread out through those AB8 factors.

[2:10:21] That's the way the state property tax system works.

[2:10:24] So it's not my fault, it's the state.

[2:10:29] So with that, this next slide is what you probably don't want to see.

[2:10:35] So Napa Valley Unified is really the only school district that doesn't get enough property taxes

[2:10:42] to fully fund all of its students.

[2:10:46] But think about the number of students they have,

[2:10:50] think about the range of different areas

[2:10:52] and the property tax of values of the district.

[2:10:57] So NAPA Valley Unified School District is the only school district

[2:11:00] that when we shift money to ERAF,

[2:11:03] we give to NAPA Valley Unified School District

[2:11:05] and then we fill up the state's obligation,

[2:11:07] not our obligation, the state's obligation

[2:11:09] of what they should have paid.

[2:11:12] And then we give, I'm able to give you back your excess e-ref that we've taken away from you.

[2:11:18] Now there's two key components to that is the average daily attendance.

[2:11:25] Also you'll hear ADA, average daily attendance, and the assess valuation.

[2:11:30] So if the, and remember the state provides its limit by ADA.

[2:11:36] So if the school population goes down, that means that they won't need as much money and their property taxes may offset everything that is, you know, the revenue limit of the state set.

[2:11:52] Same with the SES valuation. The SES valuation goes down. We're generating more property taxes. So their property taxes may result in not needing any more money from the shift.

[2:12:02] Okay? So that's ERAF. It gets better because now we get into vehicle license fees. Long story,

[2:12:13] back in the 80s, early 80s, but basically Prop 1A was passed on November of 2004 and it changed how

[2:12:24] counties, cities and towns were the only entities, no school districts, no special districts, the

[2:12:29] counties, cities, and towns, were to receive portion of vehicle license fees and in the

[2:12:35] state's wisdom they assigned it to assessed valuation growth. Vehicle license fees assessed

[2:12:42] values. There's really no connection, but that's what they did. So what it did is the constitutionally

[2:12:49] set limitations on the state's legislative authority to change local revenues and it generally prohibits

[2:12:56] more e-reff shifts from occurring. So, you know, we got a couple of wins out of that

[2:13:01] because they weren't able to do any shifts, but now it's tied to assess valuation growth

[2:13:07] not anything to do with vehicle license fees.

[2:13:12] So what's the problem? Well,

[2:13:17] you thought

[2:13:18] e-reff was a little complicated and how we're moving around things. Well, payment to a VLF

[2:13:24] to us, the county, the cities and the town, are to be taken back from any school district

[2:13:30] that we gave ERAF2. That's how it's written in legislation.

[2:13:36] So, if we want our vehicle license fees, which the state has,

[2:13:40] we have to get them from the school district that we give ERAF2.

[2:13:44] So, let's say I'm going to use really simple numbers here.

[2:13:48] Let's say Napa Valley Unified School District needed a million dollars

[2:13:53] to finish their bucket, for their state, for their obligation.

[2:13:57] We gave them a million dollars in eRaff.

[2:14:01] VLF Countywide is about 30 million dollars.

[2:14:04] 35, 50?

[2:14:06] Oh, I'm thinking Countywide.

[2:14:07] Sorry. 50 million dollars.

[2:14:10] So we then are able to take a million dollars back

[2:14:14] out of eRaff to pay our VLF.

[2:14:17] The next thing that it says,

[2:14:19] and bullet two, is if we took all of our eRaff back,

[2:14:22] which is million dollars,

[2:14:24] we then get to take 49 million dollars

[2:14:26] from NAPA Valley unifies property tax that I just gave them and say okay now we took 50 million

[2:14:34] dollars back and we get to then pay the county the cities in the town for our vehicle license fees

[2:14:41] so now we took their e-reff and their property tax so what does that mean the state has an

[2:14:47] obligation to backfill the 50 million dollars that we just took away from the schools so that's

[2:14:55] twice called VLF swap. We're swapping all this money around.

[2:15:00] And then the state gets to say, look what we did. We gave NAPA Valley Unified School District $50 million. Not really. They gave us our VLF, right? It's a swap. And so it's kind of crazy. The worst part of it, if that wasn't even bad enough, are you guys all following this? Okay. Totally was going to be exciting. The worst part of this is if NAPA Valley Unified School District

[2:15:31] goes basic aid, meaning their property taxes,

[2:15:35] fill their bucket.

[2:15:36] Nothing in legislation allows us to get paid

[2:15:40] for vehicle license fees.

[2:15:43] So if the ADA is down or the assess values up

[2:15:48] and NAPA value unified, does it need ERAF?

[2:15:51] We have no mechanism to get $50 million

[2:15:54] from the state for our vehicle license fees.

[2:15:59] Let that sink in.

[2:16:02] But one of the key points that I want to tell everybody and again Bob is going to repeat all this so if it's not syncing in it will

[2:16:11] Schools are made whole schools are not harmed in any way, and I want to make that point clear because that's a that's a very

[2:16:20] Miss information common

[2:16:23] Thing out there that we are taking schools money away. We're not schools are made 100% whole the state has an obligation

[2:16:30] they have to fill that bucket. So they are getting their revenue. The state gets

[2:16:36] to say that they paid all this money to schools and let's you know put more

[2:16:41] legislation to get more school funding okay because they're spending no it's

[2:16:45] VLF. The only thing that really is hurting is the local governments that are

[2:16:50] losing this funding.

[2:16:55] So here's our estimated county revenues for VLF so this is

[2:17:01] estimated for $24.25. So you can see the county there, that's where I got my $30 million,

[2:17:06] it's almost $30 million. So let's just hone in on you guys, it's a million bucks. So a million

[2:17:13] dollars out of your budget that could just be gone, just like that. And that includes a ton of

[2:17:19] y'all fills a million, so you say the lien is a million, so you have NAPA, it's almost 12 million,

[2:17:23] American Canyon 2.3 million.

[2:17:31] I'll just leave that up there for a minute. Okay. Okay. So

[2:17:36] The simplified piece of the puzzle, just to make sure everybody understands how this works.

[2:17:41] Property taxes are collected by the treasure tax collector, he's the bad guy, he collects

[2:17:45] your property taxes.

[2:17:48] I allocate the revenues based on those AB8 factors.

[2:17:54] I shift monies to ERAF.

[2:17:57] I distribute those monies to the non-basic aid school districts.

[2:18:01] If excess exists, I give it back to the taxing entities.

[2:18:06] VLF is taken from the non-basic aid school districts, if from their ERAF first, if the ERAF is not enough, I take it from their property taxes, the state back fills the schools, and then I remit all the property taxes in VLF to the cities and the town and the special districts and the schools.

[2:18:28] The complicated piece of the puzzle, the state can change their revenue limit at any time.

[2:18:33] They can increase it or decrease it, which is another moving piece of the puzzle.

[2:18:37] They can even go back and say, two years ago, we want to give the schools more,

[2:18:42] which means that I'd have to take more money from you guys because we already gave the money back.

[2:18:47] There's no mechanism once again to get our VLF if it goes basic aid.

[2:18:51] And the state is not, they are, this is where Bob has been working with the state for many years now on this whole issue.

[2:19:00] The state is saying we don't have really any thought that we have to guarantee this for you, even though it's our revenue.

[2:19:11] And but think about it, we're five counties in the state of California, 58.

[2:19:16] think of how much money is going to offset their school obligation.

[2:19:22] So they're not going to want to change legislation for that.

[2:19:26] And one thing is, they're trying now that five counties have this excess

[2:19:31] e-reff, they're trying to see how they can legislatively take more of that away,

[2:19:36] to use for other things.

[2:19:38] So the key takeaways for me, we all need to understand property tax and

[2:19:43] what our local property tax funding goes to.

[2:19:45] We need to be aware that schools are not harmed in any way.

[2:19:49] Neither is the state.

[2:19:50] Only us local governments are.

[2:19:53] And back to the little graphs.

[2:19:56] Those are your discretionary dollars.

[2:19:57] Your VLF is a discretionary piece of that.

[2:20:00] So we need to make sure that the discretionary dollars are safe

[2:20:03] and that they're flexible to be able to use for the services that you provide.

[2:20:10] Okay.

[2:20:12] So.

[2:20:12] Thank you.

[2:20:13] Bob, someone please call 1-800-Dodge.

[2:20:17] Bob is next, he's going to go a little deep dive, so do you have any general questions

[2:20:21] or do you want to wait for him?

[2:20:23] Okay.

[2:20:25] And as he comes up, the primary point of this evening to try and help educate people about

[2:20:29] is it's very complicated, the city of Calistoga overnight could lose a million dollars instantaneously,

[2:20:39] which is about 5% of our general phone budget.

[2:20:40] And so where's the good news, like how do we, well, yes, welcome, Mr. Minnan.

[2:20:48] Thank you very much.

[2:20:50] If we can pull up the next slide deck, I'll walk you through it, and I have two

[2:20:54] confessions to make right up the bat, as both Tracy and

[2:20:59] Supervisor Manfrey, who's in the back, know I can get in the weeds on this stuff pretty

[2:21:03] quickly. And the second confession is Tracy had the

[2:21:07] easy part. So, here we go.

[2:21:09] So I'm just going to deal with the VLF swap issue and I think it is the most prevalent

[2:21:15] and right in your face kind of issue that we're going to deal with now and I've been dealing

[2:21:20] with this for solidly five years now dealing with the state of California trying to get this

[2:21:27] resolved for all of the taxing agencies within the county and so let's just jump in.

[2:21:34] So, these are the people that we're going to be dealing with.

[2:21:37] State of California, ERAF, as Tracy explained, the BLF swap, we're going to talk a lot about Napa Valley and if I had school district,

[2:21:45] even though it's in the southern part of the county, it's the one that we have to pay attention to, and then local governments.

[2:21:52] And the terms are, the local control funding formula is the new school funding formula.

[2:21:58] It's the ADA-based revenue limit calculation.

[2:22:03] It's very complex calculation.

[2:22:05] Came in during the last administration

[2:22:08] was a great change for schools,

[2:22:11] but it's really complicated.

[2:22:13] School property taxes is the amount

[2:22:14] that Tracy allocates or apportions to each school.

[2:22:19] And then we have basic aid, which is when number two,

[2:22:23] school property taxes is greater

[2:22:25] later than their guaranteed minimum funding and ERAF entitlement is the other way around.

[2:22:33] So if the LCFF minimum guarantee is greater than local property taxes for a school, the

[2:22:39] difference between those two becomes their ERAF entitlement.

[2:22:42] And then excess ERAF has trace stated when all schools within the county are funded to their

[2:22:51] LCFF limit and there is excess funds remaining in ERAF, then a portion of that gets returned

[2:22:59] back to contributing agencies.

[2:23:03] VLF swap history back in the great Davis era, local agencies benefited from a 2% vehicle

[2:23:15] license fee. During the Davis administration, he reduced it to 0.65, which did significant

[2:23:22] harm to local agencies, but developed a backfill agreement with local agencies for a couple

[2:23:28] of years to help them out. Fast forward to the Schwarzenegger administration through the

[2:23:35] The ERAF free shift, which shifted at $1.3 billion per year, again, to save the state money, they made the VLF swap a permanent funding source for local governments, and they tied it to assess valuation.

[2:23:53] The current law problem is for VLF, first funding source is ERAF.

[2:24:00] If there isn't sufficient funds in ERAF to fully fund the VLLF swap, the next funding

[2:24:06] source is any real property taxes for all non-basic-gauge school districts.

[2:24:13] The problem is if all of our schools are basic-gauge, code is silent on where you get your

[2:24:20] reimbursement from, and right now the state says we don't technically have to give you

[2:24:24] any money back.

[2:24:25] So the swap isn't really a swap in that area.

[2:24:30] Napa County's issues, we have one basic aid school district.

[2:24:35] It's Napa Valley Unified School District, our largest school district.

[2:24:39] It is trending towards basic aid.

[2:24:42] It has been suffering a significant loss of ADA over the past probably five years.

[2:24:50] And once Napa Valley Unified School District turns basic aid, we lose our

[2:24:55] funding source, the minimum loss that we would look at currently is, it's a two-year cycle

[2:25:02] to get any kind of funding from the state. So, local governments in Napa County would

[2:25:09] suffer $100 million loss revenue just when Napa Valley Unified School District turns

[2:25:15] basic aid.

[2:25:18] Factors leading to basic aid, prop 13 AB 8 factors that came into play, it's

[2:25:24] key because the leading factor towards this is in Napa County, schools get two out of

[2:25:31] every $3 of property taxes.

[2:25:34] It's a significantly higher ratio than in other counties.

[2:25:38] We would be in a better position if we had Solano County's apportionment factors and

[2:25:44] we weren't a basic or an excess UF County.

[2:25:48] Solano County shifts one out of every $2 to school with the state backfilling the rest

[2:25:53] in NAPI County, we shift to out of every three.

[2:25:58] RSS valuation is increasing constantly.

[2:26:01] Last year, I think the county wide, we were at 4.5%.

[2:26:06] NAPI value-unified school district is suffering declining enrollment.

[2:26:10] And the state general fund over the last couple of years,

[2:26:14] the deficit has resulted in a significant reduction in the Prop 98 guarantee.

[2:26:18] And the Prop 98 guarantee is good, and I appreciate having a principal here because we're going

[2:26:24] to talk a little bit about the Prop 98 guarantee.

[2:26:28] So these are the calculations, and this is how the money flows.

[2:26:33] So Tracy shifts $75 million from local taxing agencies into ERAF.

[2:26:43] We then calculate what the Napa Valley Unified School District's ERAF entitlement is, and

[2:26:48] Again, that's the distance between their minimum state

[2:26:51] guarantee and local property taxes.

[2:26:54] So we have to shift $28 million to the Napa Valley Unified

[2:26:58] School District to get them to their LCFF minimum

[2:27:01] guarantee number.

[2:27:03] But we then have to give that money back

[2:27:06] because that's the first funding source for the VLF swap.

[2:27:10] That funding goes back into ERA and then comes down.

[2:27:14] And it's in the pot that we're going to use

[2:27:16] used to fund the cities and the county for the state's VLF swap obligation.

[2:27:24] Okay, then we in excess ERAF mode.

[2:27:28] And so since NAPA Valley Unified School District has technically been filled to their revenue

[2:27:34] limit using the $28 million, we then shift all of the rest the remainder in ERAF back to

[2:27:41] the contributing agencies after we make NAPA counties office of education hold for their special

[2:27:48] education, local plan area.

[2:27:50] So there's about a $10 million savings to the state that we have to fulfill first.

[2:27:55] All the rest of it goes back to our cities and special districts that contribute into ERAF.

[2:28:03] Then, in order to make our VLF swap full, we then take $22 million from Napa Valley Unified School District to make the full VLF payment.

[2:28:17] And ultimately, the state then backfills the $50 million back to Napa Valley Unified School District, so they're made whole.

[2:28:25] The key to this, and it's a nuance that 99 out of 100, maybe 999 out of 1,000 people don't realize this, when the state backfills Napa Valley Unified School District, to effectively pay VLF, they count that under the Prop 98 guarantee.

[2:28:45] And so, when the state talks about the Prop 98 guarantee and how much they're funding schools included in that number is the amount of dollars that they're funding every single county and city for their VLF swap.

[2:28:59] So, we've been working tirelessly with the state for a number of years and we've come up with this incredibly complicated, incredibly complicated change.

[2:29:11] And our plan is to do this, that this is way it should work if we don't have a funding source.

[2:29:21] The state should simply shift the $50 million to the VLF and be done.

[2:29:25] They do this effectively in 56 out of the 58 counties in the state of California without even thinking about it.

[2:29:34] But they just do it through schools.

[2:29:36] The impact of basic aid and APA value, if I had school district again, we lose our two funding sources for VLF.

[2:29:48] We then become at the mercy of the legislature to be able to add our loss into the state budget.

[2:29:55] it. San Mateo County is in a similar position.

[2:30:00] And then we are, they are currently out about $116 million, that they're trying to get added into the state budget for next year.

[2:30:11] So here's an Apple Value Unified School District's trekked towards basic aid using updated estimates as we go along. The lighter green, the 22, 23, 23, 24 actuals, 24, 25 is the school funding is correct in the percentage of growth that it is

[2:30:32] everything else for the most part is estimated. And then as we move out to 2526 and 2627 there are

[2:30:39] three key factors that are going to make this Bob look really good or make Bob look really bad.

[2:30:45] But as you see in 2223 ERAF entitlements 21 million it goes up in 2324. In that year there was an

[2:30:55] And 8% growth in school funding, there was also a statutory 7.5% growth, so the ultimate growth in school funding was double digits.

[2:31:05] So ERAF entitlement goes up, 24-25 after the budget crisis at the state.

[2:31:11] Governor reduces the growth in school down to 0.76%.

[2:31:15] You start to see Napa Valley Unified School District's ERAF entitlement shrink.

[2:31:21] And in the following year in 25-26, further shrinks.

[2:31:24] And I'm projecting, at this point in time, 2627 is about the time that we need to really pay attention

[2:31:32] because we may be in a position where we're losing revenues.

[2:31:35] So the takeaway is that we're projected to have revenue about a million dollars less in a couple of years.

[2:31:43] And I've been ripped just for a second and so do we build ERAF into our budget?

[2:31:50] Did we set it aside because we're unsure of how much we're going to get?

[2:31:58] We have been building an entire budget and we'll be building it into next year's budget that we're working on currently.

[2:32:05] And this meeting is to address the future 2627 budget cycle.

[2:32:10] So possible.

[2:32:11] So the budget pie that we saw up there included ERAF and was-

[2:32:15] Yeah, left.

[2:32:16] Was there an ERAF category, maybe I just overlooked it.

[2:32:19] It's under vehicle license fee.

[2:32:23] There's two components.

[2:32:25] So there's excess E-Raff absolutely.

[2:32:28] It's included in your property tax side of the thing that I'm not sure.

[2:32:31] VLF is included in that same pot.

[2:32:34] Excess E-Raff, you showed it separately?

[2:32:37] No, in the pipe.

[2:32:39] Yeah.

[2:32:40] So excess E-Raff will continue.

[2:32:43] It's not going to change unless the state does something statutorily to remove it.

[2:32:47] The only piece that is in jeopardy is the VLF side of things.

[2:32:52] So is there anything that we can do about, except respond to what you're telling us?

[2:32:57] Yeah, we've been kind of, we've battled this directly twice so far.

[2:33:04] In 2019, when the pandemic hit, the governor came out with his first pandemic budget.

[2:33:10] He included reduction in school funding.

[2:33:12] We would have been sitting facing that, the VLF swap issue in 2020, as soon as he came out with his budget cuts.

[2:33:20] Luckily, the legislature kind of pushed back on it, school funding stayed exactly the way it was going to, and so, we've kind of progressed along with it.

[2:33:30] We battled it again, I think in 2023, and I'm sure, I'm not sure who from the city signed the letters,

[2:33:41] But we've we've been battling it with our legislature Senator Dodd has carried a lot of water on this one

[2:33:47] We're really lucky because Senator Kabaldon is a school funding expert and so I've met with him already

[2:33:56] Understands the issue and he's hit the ground running and so we don't have to go through kind of the re-education

[2:34:02] We're trying to find the right time to do this and to bring it back to the legislature

[2:34:09] with them in budget crisis is probably not the right time,

[2:34:13] and so we're kind of just biting until we come back in it.

[2:34:17] So for the time being, this is information for us to understand that beginning 26, 27 were likely to be a million dollars less.

[2:34:26] You receive a million dollars less than we would otherwise have received.

[2:34:31] That is correct. And when I go through and I do the estimates for these,

[2:34:35] I will always estimate, I want to say this correctly, in a manner that's going to tell you potentially a year too early, as opposed to a year too late.

[2:34:45] And so any estimate I'm going to do is going to be pushed forward a little bit so we have plenty of time to adjust and react to what's coming.

[2:34:52] In addition, by the time we get there, it might be more than a million dollars. It's already a little bit over now.

[2:35:00] Okay, is there is there more for the presentation or can we ask a question, sir?

[2:35:06] Yes.

[2:35:06] This is your show.

[2:35:07] You can ask whatever you want.

[2:35:09] Council members, do you like to offer any comment or questions?

[2:35:14] How can you reverse the trend towards basic aid?

[2:35:17] Is that even possible?

[2:35:21] Well, good timing.

[2:35:22] There are three key variables in the trend towards basic aid.

[2:35:26] there's average daily attendance and Napa Valley Unified School District had been

[2:35:33] hemorrhaging students for a few years. Now part of that is offset and you haven't

[2:35:39] recognized or felt it yet in these calculations because the state during the pandemic did a

[2:35:45] couple of things. One, they froze ADA at the lesser or the greater of whatever it was pre-pandemic

[2:35:54] and what it was actually.

[2:35:57] So while you were hemorrhaging students

[2:35:59] for your state funding, they kept the old number,

[2:36:03] the artificial number up.

[2:36:06] They then took a second stab that said, okay,

[2:36:08] moving forward, when a school district is

[2:36:11] in a declining enrollment state.

[2:36:13] So they're losing students.

[2:36:15] They then decided to make the calculations based

[2:36:19] on an average of the prior three years.

[2:36:22] and so it gave schools more time to kind of change their ways to affect, to deal with the loss of funding that was going to come.

[2:36:33] So if one year you lost 2,000 students, you didn't have to suffer the full consequences of that funding loss like that.

[2:36:42] It gave you a time to gradually right size your school in order to meet the declining funding that was coming your way.

[2:36:50] Okay, so this is probably partially a result of the decrease in childbirth.

[2:36:57] A lot of it has to do, it was in the planning enrollment state already.

[2:37:02] But when the pandemic had, we saw a significant number of people leave the public school systems

[2:37:07] and they started doing other things, but that's where you really see the decline in enrollment.

[2:37:14] Can we not market the county as a sanctuary county and embrace millions of kids into our community and turn the vote?

[2:37:23] Right.

[2:37:24] I'll leave that to smarter people.

[2:37:27] But I just like to volunteer.

[2:37:31] School districts, while no one wants to lose students when your property tax is put you into basic aid, the school district is celebrating.

[2:37:39] school districts go into basic aid, one win the lottery, so they're not interested.

[2:37:47] Oh no, let's hold those tax property taxes down, that's, we're lucky.

[2:37:53] School districts, Cal State Unified School District is about one and a half times basic aid.

[2:37:59] They're clearly past basic aid status.

[2:38:02] And so in Cal State Unified School District, I think the average funding

[2:38:08] or the LCFF funding for an app-felling unified school district is $13,000 per student.

[2:38:15] Calisogus is at $20,000 per student, just from local property taxes.

[2:38:19] So you're right, there's a, there's a, there is a, a, a folkroom at that, at that point, because what non-basic age school districts do when they're approaching basic age status is,

[2:38:36] is they will increase their inter-district transfers

[2:38:41] to raise their student counts, to raise their LCFF

[2:38:45] limit up once they pass that threshold and they become

[2:38:49] basic A, then effectively you're educating those

[2:38:53] students for free.

[2:38:54] And so then you'll see a purge of all the inter-district kids,

[2:38:58] all the inter-district students, back to their home

[2:39:01] districts.

[2:39:01] And so, then you become basic by quite a ways.

[2:39:07] Other questions, council members, comments?

[2:39:10] It's a public comment is time.

[2:39:15] Is there anybody in the chambers here who would like to address the council or our guests on this issue?

[2:39:23] Or City Clerk, anybody online?

[2:39:26] Okay.

[2:39:27] Last call for public comment.

[2:39:31] Okay, let's close public comment then and council members back to us.

[2:39:36] Any further questions, comments, for our guests?

[2:39:41] Then-

[2:39:42] Can we get these slides just, or these decks that would be awesome?

[2:39:48] Thanks, I can even absorb like one, Iota of this sitting here, this is the Blake complex.

[2:39:55] I think the key takeaway is, we both work for you.

[2:39:58] And so if you have questions, you know, feel free to contact us at your leisure.

[2:40:03] Great.

[2:40:03] Thank you.

[2:40:03] Just one quick question.

[2:40:06] You mentioned Senator Cavaldon.

[2:40:09] Is there any way that we can do some kind of advocacy?

[2:40:14] We have an event that leaders submit in Sacramento coming in April.

[2:40:22] So this will be a good topic to talk to them.

[2:40:26] Absolutely.

[2:40:28] He's aware of the issue, like I said, he's a prop 98 specialist.

[2:40:34] And so anytime we have the ability to raise the issue, before it's an emergency, just

[2:40:40] for education and keeping it in the forefront of his thoughts.

[2:40:44] Okay.

[2:40:44] Thank you.

[2:40:45] And I tried to corner him at the swearing in for the New County Supervisors and he stopped

[2:40:49] me before I even finished.

[2:40:51] I know all about it.

[2:40:52] Okay.

[2:40:53] But it would not hurt again to raise it.

[2:40:55] Okay.

[2:40:56] Yeah, but you know, we had to cut fine topics to talk to them when we see them there, so I think this is a good one

[2:41:04] Thank you. Okay, good other questions comments

[2:41:08] Thank you for coming up appreciate it all the way up Valley nice to see you up here

[2:41:12] Thank you, and it was important for I

[2:41:15] Think everyone to start understanding this as we're entering budget season

[2:41:18] So because we're going to be referring to this in our projections and and wanting to make sure that there's some understanding of why it's

[2:41:25] complicated. Great. Thank you for that. We're almost three hours into the meeting. I'm going to suggest a brief recess and mayor.

[2:41:34] Yes, mayor. As we approach 9pm, I just have to advise you for the operating agreements. If you want to go to 930, we'll need a majority vote.

[2:41:46] And if you want to go pass that to a set time, we'll need a unanimous vote.

[2:41:51] In addition, there's another choice to be made when you come back.

[2:41:56] The actual consultant who would do the survey is only available until 9.30.

[2:42:02] If you would like to hear from that person, we'd need to hear that earlier, but we can

[2:42:07] also continue with the order and the agenda.

[2:42:11] Another suggestion, the mid-year budget amendments, can we do that one last?

[2:42:19] And it's keep all the things that it has to do with the programs first, do you know?

[2:42:28] Let's take a brief recess and then reconvene in just a few minutes.

[2:50:50] I like it.

[2:50:58] Mid-year budget adjustments.

[2:51:05] Inept to file that on our 700 form I guess, right? I mean, maybe we can take the budget adjustments off if we have to. Yeah.

[2:51:22] I would be important that we do one.

[2:51:37] I like your style. I like your dreamer.

[2:51:44] Okay. I will do everything to support that. If I not be alone, wind it.

[2:51:51] Okay.

[2:51:54] Okay, let's reconvene council members and members of the public.

[2:52:01] And our next item is the mid-year budget amendments for this fiscal year that we're in presently.

[2:52:12] Let's see, we're approaching the time when we have two fairgrounds.

[2:52:18] We want to go to fairgrounds, really do that.

[2:52:20] I think, and let's leave the budget at the end, so we'll skip it.

[2:52:25] Okay, I'm going to skip it.

[2:52:27] Okay, with that cast, no, that's what I was going to do.

[2:52:30] I was going to move to, and we all move 7.2 to the end, and to extend the meeting to 9.30 if needed.

[2:52:39] We need a majority vote on that.

[2:52:41] Let's see, let's go roll call, make sure we're okay.

[2:52:44] If we, Council members, we're being asked for approval for authorization to continue to 930.

[2:52:54] Council member Eisenberg?

[2:52:55] Aye.

[2:52:56] Council member Cooper?

[2:52:57] Aye.

[2:52:58] Council member gift?

[2:52:59] Aye.

[2:52:59] Vice Mayor Lopez Roteca?

[2:53:01] Aye.

[2:53:02] Mayor Williams.

[2:53:03] Aye.

[2:53:03] Thank you.

[2:53:04] So we'll continue till that time.

[2:53:06] And at that time I understand if we want to continue longer, we need a unanimous vote to do that.

[2:53:12] Let's go to, let's see, we're going to skip over for the moment, the mid-year budget amendments.

[2:53:23] And let's see, we have the director write the survey consultant, and we have a limited

[2:53:33] time.

[2:53:33] So shall we bring that person on?

[2:53:35] I do not want to put the survey ahead of the conversation for a subcommittee.

[2:53:41] I personally don't think I don't want to do that.

[2:53:44] I'm not prepared to vote on that if we aren't having the conversation at the subcommittee first.

[2:53:49] Actually, I like that, I like that too.

[2:53:51] So let's see,

[2:53:56] yeah, I'm going to suggest, let's see, we go to 7-4, I think that's when you're referring to?

[2:54:08] Okay, I'm going to suggest this order that we go to 7-4, and then 7-6, then 7-6, and 7-5 is fine.

[2:54:27] Let's see, 7-4 is the advisory rule.

[2:54:39] Let's see, my notes suggest that going, what about doing the feasibility plan first?

[2:54:44] would we be okay with that, and going from there to the advisory role, and then last to the survey.

[2:54:53] So I'm suggesting going right to 7.5,

[2:55:00] okay.

[2:55:03] Does it matter, Councilmember Giebt?

[2:55:05] I mean, we have them in order at 7.4, the advisory committee, 7.5 is the facility, and then, yeah.

[2:55:13] All right, let's go with 7.4, is the first one that's listed here related to fairgrounds.

[2:55:20] All right, let's go to 7.4, options for fairground advisory role, fairground advisory body.

[2:55:30] Okay, Director Wright.

[2:55:32] Thank you for organizing these items for us, and would you like to start it off?

[2:55:39] No problem, thank you Mayor.

[2:55:41] Mayor and City Council members, the staff report before you is in regards to options for an advisory role.

[2:55:50] for the fairgrounds. The two options that were given include a ad hoc committee, which

[2:55:58] is devised for specific task purposes and a short duration, dissolving upon a certain

[2:56:07] date or a committee task completion. The example given is a five-member community committee, but

[2:56:17] But could also include a free community members and up to two council members.

[2:56:24] The importance is that the ad hoc committee needs a specific task focus, and we should

[2:56:33] make sure that we note that it does require Brown Act noticing and Brown Act components.

[2:56:39] The second option given to you today is the Council subcommittee option.

[2:56:48] In this option, the mayor appoints two council members to serve on the subcommittee with

[2:56:57] concurrence of the full board, full council, excuse me, and it's also a temporary committee

[2:57:04] but it has no set schedule for dissolving and this committee would work on Fairgrounds Council priorities, and it does not have Brown Act compliance.

[2:57:19] There was an example in the staff report of the comparison of the two types of committees that I present to you today.

[2:57:28] Great. Thank you for that. Any clarifying questions before we go for public comment?

[2:57:35] Okay, let's open for public comment then.

[2:57:39] Is there anybody here tonight who would like to address the council on this topic of advisory body and some suggestions that are in the staff report?

[2:57:53] Carrie Abrue, 1720 Renard Lane, out of the two that Shelley just talked about in the

[2:58:04] face of transparency with this community, I think it would be best to include a few

[2:58:12] people's citizens of Calistoga.

[2:58:15] It's and it to be where as long as the council and there were some parameters to it to exactly

[2:58:25] what the focus is I mean I think that is imperative there's there's many people that

[2:58:31] have worked hard to to bring the fairgrounds to to Calistoga there's there's people that

[2:58:42] that have valued information that they could also share.

[2:58:47] So I think that's something that should be considered.

[2:58:49] Thank you.

[2:58:50] Thank you.

[2:58:58] Doug Allen, high street.

[2:59:00] I think the discussion that the few of you had about the order

[2:59:05] of the items on the agenda tonight is a great illustration

[2:59:10] to me about how interwoven these topics are to one another,

[2:59:16] and how complex this project is and it should be complex because it's a once-in-a-lifetime

[2:59:23] opportunity to impact this property.

[2:59:27] And so I actually wasn't planning to hear that, that was just kind of how you discussed

[2:59:32] these items and how they unfolded, but I think at pinpoints the need not only for a committee,

[2:59:40] but a committee to be part of a comprehensive plan.

[2:59:44] And I don't know if you guys read my public comment earlier today, but the plan that we should be enacting includes that component, but many other components.

[2:59:57] So we have an overarching idea and plan.

[3:00:00] Vision for what the planning process is going to look like because it's hard, at least for me, is this human to make decisions on individual items as they pop up without a larger vision for the plan and the project. And so as you make this decision tonight on this particular item and the other two items, please consider the complexity and comprehensiveness that I believe this

[3:00:29] This process needs to undertake to get to the right solution.

[3:00:33] Part of that solution in my mind is having a community-based committee that within the confines of the law,

[3:00:42] as broad as we can make it so that this committee can attack more than just a survey that may or may not happen.

[3:00:50] So we can have a larger committee.

[3:00:53] Thank you very much.

[3:00:54] Thank you.

[3:01:09] I would like to, first of all, endorse what Doug has put together and concur with the concept of an ongoing community effort of people in town as part of that process.

[3:01:28] and by way of saying then I concur also with that it needs people from the community involved.

[3:01:38] One of the things certainly that I've learned I've 50 years did not only designing buildings

[3:01:47] but doing urban design throughout the Western United States and the Pacific Rim and there are projects

[3:01:57] projects that we had worked on for 10 and 15 years.

[3:02:05] This is a project that will outlive probably all of us and will be hopefully completed by the next generation.

[3:02:15] And that needs continuity in the process that is just folks in town who are reporting.

[3:02:24] part of the mission that needs to be incorporated with this group of

[3:02:29] individuals that you might hopefully select and maybe it's a combination of

[3:02:34] council people and citizens is that it's a conduit for communication and it's a

[3:02:40] two-way conduit but the conduit to the council is very important and it's got to

[3:02:51] be an ongoing dialogue. So that says don't give it a specific task and then end of

[3:02:58] story, nor does it say give them a specific time. You can be renewable as it goes along,

[3:03:05] it will by necessity morph and change through its lifetime. That's what I would hope it

[3:03:13] would do because that's what's going to happen and it needs that ongoing input, that avenue

[3:03:22] so that people know this is a place where I can go and let people know what is going

[3:03:30] on and that will be reported to the council and hopefully maybe be reflected in the city's

[3:03:36] website so that people can stay in tune.

[3:03:40] So to that end, endorse the general principle here and

[3:03:45] encourage you to make it more open ended and

[3:03:49] invite the people in town in a structured way to be part of that process.

[3:03:56] Thank you.

[3:04:05] Evening, council mayor, Stephen Penske on High Street.

[3:04:09] And I concur with everything that all three of

[3:04:14] of the previous speakers have said, but I would like to just re-emphasize that it needs

[3:04:20] to be not necessarily permanent, but it needs to be a committee that sees the entire

[3:04:29] visioning and revisioning of the fairgrounds, including developing the business plan, and

[3:04:36] And I think that a combination of community members from all sides of the argument and

[3:04:47] some of the council members be included.

[3:04:51] And that this, it may take two years, it may take ten years.

[3:04:56] It, who knows, it may go on forever.

[3:04:59] But it's an important, that the community has, it's saying.

[3:05:04] Thank you.

[3:05:17] My name is Tim Riley, I'm a permanent resident of Callistoga, and I've submitted a pretty detailed

[3:05:23] list of comments.

[3:05:24] I just wanted to emphasize a couple of key points here that we heard about earlier.

[3:05:29] By the way, I agree with everything we've heard about this issue tonight.

[3:05:37] You know, I think it's essential that we have continuity and that we engage right now,

[3:05:41] starting now with the very well-structured articulated committed program for public participation.

[3:05:56] That we think will end with if not developing a consensus around whatever decision related to the master plan is,

[3:06:05] because there will be a consensus that the process for arriving at that plan was even

[3:06:12] handed inclusive, objective, unbiased, all of those things.

[3:06:17] If we want that to happen, we need to be focused on continuity and we need to be careful

[3:06:26] when we select the members on the committee because their role is going to be not one of

[3:06:31] the advocacy for a given alternative, but it's going to be a commitment to ensure that the process is welcoming and at the end of it, it's credible because at the end of this process, our community is going to be called again to make a really difficult decision about public resources and trade-offs.

[3:06:57] And regardless of their own individual preferences, if the time comes for that decision, and they feel that they've been informed, they've been respected, they've been listened to, and they understand all the small incremental decisions that are now leading to their big decision.

[3:07:17] That's going to be a much better outcome, regardless of what alternative is selected.

[3:07:21] So, I think that it would be good for the council to approve the ad hoc committee, not

[3:07:31] the instant, you know, not the episodic one, but the more longer alternative and start

[3:07:37] working towards a mission statement for that committee, and at that point, charge the

[3:07:44] committee to evaluate the selection process for the survey consultant, you know, and consider

[3:07:50] that input when you make the decision on whether or not to award the contract to that provider.

[3:07:57] Thank you.

[3:07:58] Thank you.

[3:07:59] Thank

[3:08:04] you.

[3:08:04] City clerk, is there anyone online?

[3:08:07] No, no, no.

[3:08:08] Okay.

[3:08:09] Public comment?

[3:08:12] Charlotte Williams.

[3:08:16] Given the two proposals, I would select a smaller and simpler and more streamlined committee

[3:08:25] of Council subcommittee, however, my other idea was to put it on a ballot and have the

[3:08:34] citizens vote, the voters vote on whether they want to have a committee creating a vision

[3:08:44] or whatever for the fairgrounds, that it's not a matter of an appointment, appointment by

[3:08:50] city council that the voters in town who, of course, are not all the residents.

[3:08:55] The children can't vote.

[3:08:57] Anyone younger than 18 can't vote.

[3:09:01] And there are many residents who probably aren't voters, but have lived here a long time.

[3:09:08] So I don't like the idea of another layer of government.

[3:09:13] Director Wright is being paid $180,000 a year.

[3:09:16] She has experience, I think we need to be moving this fairgrounds along in a prompt manner to make sure there's income and then a plan, a larger plan, a greater plan can be developed later, but as was pointed out, many of us will not be here before very long.

[3:09:41] And ideally, the fairgrounds exist for the public in perpetuity.

[3:09:48] And so that means a lot of younger people who are not going to be on committees.

[3:09:56] They're potentially going to be the ones living with whatever decisions are made.

[3:10:00] So I would suggest a smaller subcommittee to account with a council subcommittee to just get this moving along.

[3:10:09] and then if there is a lot of outcry for a citizens committee, then put it on the ballot and let the voters decide who is going to represent them as far as what happens at the fairground.

[3:10:26] But my understanding right now is that Director Wright is very open to comments from everyone, local residents, citizens and others.

[3:10:38] So I prefer a streamlined, thank you.

[3:10:41] Thank you.

[3:10:47] Why Ferris 1820 Grant?

[3:10:49] I just want to reiterate what was just said.

[3:10:52] From the start of this, you know, when it comes to transparency

[3:10:54] and communication and information about all of this,

[3:10:57] the five of you have always answered any, you know, concern question,

[3:11:02] idea that I've had personally.

[3:11:04] And since Shelley's come on board, she's done the same.

[3:11:07] Is it perfect? No, but is anything perfect? No.

[3:11:10] I think from the moment that we started this and actually got the keys there's been a lot that's been done

[3:11:16] And we're definitely moving in a forward process and again from the start the idea was to just get this thing going

[3:11:22] And so now at some point I think it's great to bring all of this on and and I'm going to kind of reiterate the same thing for the next two topics, but

[3:11:32] we're moving in the right direction and

[3:11:34] And anybody and everybody is welcome to come to these meetings and talk to you guys and it seems to be the same ten of us that are here so

[3:11:42] Are we gonna over complicate something that doesn't need to be you know more complicated than it is?

[3:11:49] Thank you

[3:11:54] Any other public comments from the

[3:11:58] Chambers here or online city clerk

[3:12:03] Okay, okay, let's close public comment and bring it back to us council members

[3:12:10] I would like to start off.

[3:12:11] I would like to start.

[3:12:13] I'm not really a fan of either of these.

[3:12:15] I think that a blend would be more appropriate.

[3:12:18] My vision would be to quickly establish a community based committee with probably two council

[3:12:26] members and one at large and really implement this very quickly.

[3:12:32] I'd like to see it in a permanent basis maybe have term limits so that other people could

[3:12:37] also contribute.

[3:12:39] And I think it's important to not just have the City Councils, members on the subcommittee,

[3:12:44] but again have a great blend of a good sized group of concerned citizens I would consider

[3:12:51] maybe eight or higher would be a good idea.

[3:12:55] But again, you know, I don't think it's something that should end quickly.

[3:12:58] I think it needs to be ongoing and I think it will definitely outlive us.

[3:13:02] I don't think it needs to be at the level of a fair board at this juncture.

[3:13:06] But I just think it's really important to involve the community members.

[3:13:11] And I would suggest potentially that the mayor could appoint out of the vast group of talent that you have worked with in the past, and then we could potentially review that.

[3:13:24] Just my particular perspective on everything, and I look forward to hearing from everyone else.

[3:13:29] Okay, sure, Councilman Eisenberg.

[3:13:33] Okay, I've really thought about this for a very long time and continue to think and continue to evolve, I hope, may make it to humans soon.

[3:13:46] We absolutely need public input, and I think the

[3:13:56] real issues we have to deal is how, what is the real purpose of the committee?

[3:14:02] I think that's really important.

[3:14:05] Members are easy.

[3:14:07] I agree with Councilman Cooper.

[3:14:10] Let's have two Council people.

[3:14:12] Staff person and four, you know, whatever the mix is.

[3:14:17] Four community members.

[3:14:20] That would be a really nice mix.

[3:14:24] But what are we going to do with this committee?

[3:14:27] Well, my first job that I thought of would be,

[3:14:30] When we, of course, have a survey that this committee be charged with being the conduit.

[3:14:42] Conduit is my new word that I like.

[3:14:44] Thank you, Mr. Wilkes, I'm thinking conduit.

[3:14:48] The conduit from all the community input that we've already received to the survey designers,

[3:14:55] and make sure that it includes

[3:15:00] Everything we've talked about, and then, of course, we rely on the survey designers, then to

[3:15:05] turn all that input into objective questions that aren't influenced by, well, I'm getting

[3:15:16] into the survey debate. But as a conduit, and after that, the committee then could continue,

[3:15:30] continue with conduit activities, how to gather more information from the

[3:15:38] community, how to make sure the community sees the survey results, what it

[3:15:44] means and understand it, continued to bring in input and not but the

[3:15:54] The council cannot delegate its responsibility as your elected officials to make decisions.

[3:16:04] We are the only ones that are totally responsible to the community, to the voters.

[3:16:13] This committee could serve an incredibly useful purpose of bringing information, distilling

[3:16:24] it in being part of the discussion with the council, but I cannot see saying committee

[3:16:39] come up with a master plan that it eventually has to come to the to our public meetings here.

[3:16:53] and it's not going to be a fast process, and the committee would could bring all sorts of expertise as they bring in information, as they dispense information out to the community, as they share information with the council as a whole, and you can have experts in all different aspects. I hope that if we do set this up, that we have four or five,

[3:17:21] five community members with a variety of expertise, not there to advance how they think

[3:17:30] the fairground should be.

[3:17:33] But to look at, to bring in all the input, look at it critically, help distill it and

[3:17:41] bring it where it will eventually have to be decided by elected officials.

[3:17:50] with plenty of discussion from the community and the people who come to our meetings and send us letters.

[3:17:57] So I absolutely do think we need a committee.

[3:18:01] I think we need to be clear on what its purpose is.

[3:18:07] Thank you.

[3:18:11] Talk or?

[3:18:12] Okay.

[3:18:13] No matter.

[3:18:14] Do you want to go?

[3:18:15] I can go next.

[3:18:16] Okay.

[3:18:17] I think for the vice mayor was there.

[3:18:18] Vice mayor.

[3:18:19] Okay.

[3:18:19] I agree that also is important to have a committee, but we need to be sure that we get

[3:18:31] representation from all the different groups that they are hearing in Calistoga.

[3:18:38] We had to form a committee similar to the Green Committee of the Housing Committee.

[3:18:48] I believe that we should have a process that they will, whoever wants to be in the committee,

[3:18:56] they should submit an application, explain why they want to be in this committee,

[3:19:03] explaining their qualifications, how they've been involved in other affairs of the community,

[3:19:11] their experience as an active volunteers, etc.

[3:19:16] Also, you know, we need to, as I say before, we need to have a representation for everybody here.

[3:19:27] It doesn't have to be a huge, you know, a large, a bunch of members,

[3:19:34] but one member representing specific groups, you know, like, for example,

[3:19:40] for somebody who represents the people who wants the races,

[3:19:44] somebody who wants the people who wants other things that

[3:19:48] happening.

[3:19:50] So that way, everybody gets represented

[3:19:54] and it will be clear and it will be open to, you know,

[3:20:01] for so it will be no internal decisions that it will be made.

[3:20:06] It will very clear, and also we need to create the rules, and we need to create the mission of the committee.

[3:20:17] I think it's important to have all the-

[3:20:21] Okay, so without being too repetitive and trying to get it along here,

[3:20:27] I think that it is imperative that along with you, that we have this committee,

[3:20:34] there were comments made earlier that maybe the next generations wouldn't

[3:20:37] serve on these committees, I beg to differ when we see some of the younger generation stepping to serve on the existing committees that are in place.

[3:20:45] I think it is also imperative that we are a methodical in this process when we are looking back at other projects, for

[3:20:52] instance, Logby Park in the pool. We're still completing that project.

[3:20:55] This is now 18 years in the works that was done through really thoughtful planning it.

[3:21:00] It did take a really, really long time.

[3:21:03] And since we're just really talking specific to this item, and

[3:21:10] what I envision this as, I do envision the council making those really big decisions.

[3:21:17] However, similar to our other committees and commissions, they bring us a work plan that is approved.

[3:21:23] Or we assign work for them.

[3:21:26] So it would have to be after all of these other things take place.

[3:21:28] So if we're talking about what we envision, I envision, I like the idea of combining two council members in a combination with four to five members of the community and a staff member.

[3:21:42] I think that just like all of our other committees and commissions, these people need to apply for these appointments.

[3:21:48] I think that they're similarly they may be can come with a recommendation from the mayor

[3:21:53] but each of those appointments needs to be agreed upon by the entire council to ensure just good representation.

[3:22:02] I also think that it's really a great starting point would be to oversee the aspects of this survey

[3:22:07] followed by the feasibility plan and then from there we start some of the heavy lifting.

[3:22:14] But I think that could be a very very good starting point and I don't envision this as a short

[3:22:18] term thing. I envision this as an ongoing long term thing and maybe this committee or commission

[3:22:24] changes with time and we decide okay maybe it doesn't need council members anymore. It's just

[3:22:29] members of the committee but with that said I think that we're all in agreement but we just need

[3:22:34] to dial it down to what that committee or commission looks like. So thank you. So I'm fine. I actually

[3:22:43] partial towards option one, which assuming that we approve a survey, I'm going on that assumption that the public be invited to participate in organizing the question, the survey questions and so on.

[3:23:00] I'm fine, I endorse and I approve and I encourage folks to organize and give comments and participate and we welcome that and we welcome that all the way along here.

[3:23:14] We already have at least three groups here in town working on the fairgrounds.

[3:23:21] We have the friends in Napa County fairgrounds, who have done lots of work before we ever got this far.

[3:23:28] And they've organized the help to organize with the clean update, for example,

[3:23:32] and the accompanying encouragement and enthusiasm building before we got to this point.

[3:23:37] We also have a group of unnamed volunteers who have been working weekends and days and nights out there at note charts, anybody.

[3:23:49] And there's a group of people who, you know, they're not named and organized as a committee, but they've been working out there for months now and they're participating heavily.

[3:24:00] We've gotten hundreds and hundreds of comments and letters, we're not ignoring those, we have lots of, lots of comments over the years.

[3:24:10] And we also have a third group which is us, we're the ones who are appointed or elected by the public to make the kind of decision.

[3:24:20] So there's at least three groups, if not more, in town who are working on the fairgrounds.

[3:24:27] If other groups, other groups of people want to organize, I encourage that, I approve it, I endorse it, but they don't need our blessing, they don't need us to appoint them, they can appoint, they can organize themselves, and they can bring ideas to us, and they don't need our permission to do that.

[3:24:47] But if we establish a formal committee, it basically amounts to an alter council, and we can say it's advisory.

[3:25:00] But if there are recommendations emerging from that committee and they've done work on it and they had their point of view, it's going to be hard for this council to say thanks but no thanks.

[3:25:12] It's going to amount to an alternative council, and we're basically delegating the authority which is invested in us by the voters.

[3:25:22] We're the ones who ran the campaigns, put ourselves out there, and we're the ones who are chosen by the public to make these kinds of decisions.

[3:25:31] Now it doesn't mean we don't listen, we do want to hear what the public says, but if another committee is appointed by this council,

[3:25:38] So it will face the same questions, why would it not face the same questions that are being talked about here?

[3:25:47] There are terms, there are expressions of informed and respected bodies, okay?

[3:25:57] Why would they be any more informed and respected than this body is already?

[3:26:04] If we want a committee that encourages participation and is welcoming,

[3:26:08] Why would that committee be any more encouraging a participation or welcoming than we are already are?

[3:26:17] Let's see, keeping the focus, including the public, having a place for input.

[3:26:23] Those things are available right now.

[3:26:25] If another committee is established, those same concerns could be brought to that committee as well.

[3:26:33] If another committee is appointed, why would we be assigning to those five or seven, however many people?

[3:26:44] Why would we be assigning to them any authority or any privilege that's not available to everybody else in the public?

[3:26:53] Why is that committee special in some way just because by virtue of their appointment?

[3:26:58] You know, that doesn't really, that doesn't really, you know, why should they be empowered?

[3:27:04] I don't see that at all.

[3:27:05] Well, so what I have seen is a constant drum beat.

[3:27:09] Right.

[3:27:09] The phone calls, the conversations, the emails, the text that it's very important to the community that we do establish, semi-formal.

[3:27:20] So what can, here's my, as a practical question, what can an appointed committee do that an independent committee cannot do?

[3:27:29] But an independent committee can do everything that we're talking about.

[3:27:35] They can receive public, they can look for public comment, they can bring comments to us,

[3:27:40] they can generate ideas, they can employ, or they consult with experts, all of those things can happen.

[3:27:47] But if independent committee, but if the City Council members are not involved directly with one of those committees,

[3:27:53] then there's no conduit to staff, part of the involvement of the city council members with a semi-formal ad hoc or subcommittee, whatever you want.

[3:28:04] I'm just saying that in the scope of what I've heard from the public, there is a very important desire for this type of committee that we're interviewing.

[3:28:17] Now there may be three or four others, right? I don't know of them.

[3:28:20] I'm sure they're doing great work.

[3:28:21] I'd love to hear from them, but I just think there needs to be some degree of formalized,

[3:28:26] accepted committee that interacts in engages specifically with city council members who,

[3:28:34] again, can relate the discussions to staff.

[3:28:38] We don't want to involve staff.

[3:28:40] They've got everything enough on their place.

[3:28:43] And how could an independent committee not be in contact with us?

[3:28:46] I mean, the independent committee comes to us and says we'd like research on this or on that or help us with this or that and we have access to staff.

[3:28:57] Okay, so I'm wondering how are we coming out of head with independent committee?

[3:29:02] Yes, Councilman Eisenberg.

[3:29:03] Okay.

[3:29:03] As soon as Councilperson Giff tonight decide who's going to speak next, the

[3:29:14] advantage of having the committee is as a central conduit, a place for all these disparate groups to come and know that here is a place where they can immediately get their feelings known,

[3:29:35] give opinions. I don't picture, like I said before, I don't picture any formal

[3:29:42] committee we have as being in charge of the fairgrounds. But I do see them as this

[3:29:52] as a conduit for all the separate groups to be able to provide input and to

[3:29:59] you can

[3:30:00] Distill things who can bring it back to us and I do believe that there should be a council person or two on the committee because it's one can help guide where both it can work two ways. The council people can help guide the citizen group where the council is how the council feels or bring things very directly being part of the discussion and understand.

[3:30:29] understanding better why the discussion went a certain way, why there were certain elements that they felt was important that go to council.

[3:30:41] I've become less and less worried about where people stand on this committee and really just want people who are open, want to listen, don't have a set point of view.

[3:30:59] We're going to, if they do have a set point of view, know that their obligation to the

[3:31:04] committee is stronger than their own personal views as we are on council.

[3:31:12] So as I said initially, the council cannot delegate its authority.

[3:31:24] And that's why the purpose has to be clear.

[3:31:27] It's not, maybe it's to look at how different things might work on the, on the fairgrounds,

[3:31:36] the committee could look at that, but it's not to make decisions on the way it's going

[3:31:42] to be.

[3:31:43] It's to provide the information, the knowledge, the thoughtfulness that will help us as a

[3:31:51] council make the decisions.

[3:31:53] In Councilmember Eisenberg, were you going to make a motion about extending the meeting?

[3:32:02] Yes, because we're going to vote on the survey whether you want to or not.

[3:32:07] I move that we extend the meeting to 9.50.

[3:32:15] Second.

[3:32:16] Okay, we have a motion and second.

[3:32:19] It takes unanimous vote.

[3:32:21] Councilmember Eisenberg?

[3:32:23] Aye.

[3:32:24] Councilmember Cooper?

[3:32:25] Aye.

[3:32:25] May I come to my brief gift?

[3:32:27] Aye.

[3:32:28] Vice Mayor Lopez Ortega.

[3:32:30] Aye.

[3:32:31] And Mayor Williams.

[3:32:33] Thank you for that reminder.

[3:32:36] Yes.

[3:32:36] And it also...

[3:32:38] Unfortunately, it also quieted me down.

[3:32:43] Okay.

[3:32:43] So just a few things to unpack here.

[3:32:47] Number one.

[3:32:48] As elected, our job really is to do what our constituents are asking of us.

[3:32:56] And even before the acquisition of the Fairgrounds, I was getting requests for a subcommittee of members of our community.

[3:33:07] And just like members of our other committees, many people are professionals or experts in their field that bring to us experience and information that we don't otherwise have to be able to disseminate this incredibly complex topic.

[3:33:26] and information for us.

[3:33:28] One prime example of this would be our Housing Advisory Committee.

[3:33:32] And we gave them the incredible daunting task of updating our housing element.

[3:33:40] And we put full trust and confidence into them to do that, which goes back to the state,

[3:33:46] and is that huge, convoluted process, all based on the experience of the people that we

[3:33:52] appointed to that board.

[3:33:53] So, in that, I would have the same trust in a board that we would appoint to work on the

[3:34:02] fairgrounds and whether that is in projects that we direct, such as the Housing Advisory

[3:34:07] Committee on that piece, or the Green Committee on idling, or the foodware ordinances, whatever

[3:34:17] way we choose to operate that committee is something that we would have to decide, but

[3:34:22] But to have that committee and to be able to not only answer to our constituents, make our public happy and have that community involvement, we would also have experts in their respective fields helping us on this really incredible project.

[3:34:38] And I can be supportive if a committee residents has a specific task and a, you know, a limited, you know, has a specific purpose, a specific task, for example, the work on the survey, assuming, assuming we approve that.

[3:34:58] If it's an ongoing and broad open-ended kind of committee, that's an alter council, an alternative council, and that I would not support.

[3:35:11] But if it's limited scope, specific scope, and they're doing work that somebody has to do, it would be much appreciated and I could support that.

[3:35:20] That's why I mentioned that whoever wants to be part of this committee, they have to submit an application that the entire council will review and then we will decide, you know, according to their qualifications and what they have to offer to this committee.

[3:35:40] So without discriminating anybody.

[3:35:43] Yeah, exactly, and I don't, not to get into semantics too much, but yeah, just those

[3:35:51] kind of examples of, let's say, as a council, we say, we need to find a partnership with

[3:36:00] somebody who will host events, community events, and you go maybe find a nonprofit public

[3:36:06] partner in the community and work on a contract with them, and then they could bring that back

[3:36:10] to us for us to decide on for example I think we're close to a consensus

[3:36:16] I'm sure Michelle could provide guidance and specific tasks as well exactly and they would

[3:36:21] work closely with Shelley on she would be yeah I'm fine with how he would liaison with

[3:36:25] with Shelley as well and he's not taking away her job or her authority you know she's the director

[3:36:33] and she's the one the expert who's gonna tell us what to ask to the committee so you know

[3:36:40] is going to be a win-win situation for everybody.

[3:36:44] We get the input from the members of the community,

[3:36:47] their ideas, working with the policies that they are in place

[3:36:53] for their programs already.

[3:36:55] And just like other staff, their recommendations come to us.

[3:36:58] Right.

[3:36:59] Yeah, just to clarify though, we don't need a committee to receive public input.

[3:37:05] No.

[3:37:06] We have lots of public input coming and we receive lots.

[3:37:09] So it's not because we're establishing a committee that we're going to have public input.

[3:37:15] It's already available to us and that's already welcome and if anybody thinks it isn't, you know, an extended welcome again.

[3:37:23] We are always available to public input, absolutely, but to help distill it, that's a much harder job.

[3:37:35] How many emails did we all get about the committee just having a committee and, sure, I could go through it and count up.

[3:37:49] Okay, seven are in favor of a committee of four people and three are in favor.

[3:37:55] I think it's a valuable, it would be valuable to have a committee that can take things in.

[3:38:05] and organize it and think about the implications of it.

[3:38:11] It's not just organization, but what does it mean to do that?

[3:38:18] And perhaps even research on what some ideas are on cost or feasibility.

[3:38:27] That's helping us out in our decision making.

[3:38:31] Distilling conduit, I love that word conduit.

[3:38:35] But I'm going to be stuck with condo and go home and start working on my wiring.

[3:38:41] I'm distilling condo it.

[3:38:44] It's late, I'm a little okay, but yeah, there's really, there can be a good use.

[3:38:54] As long as we understand where the limits are and as long as we do our jobs as council

[3:39:04] of people. I think we're okay. And as far as, like I said, I'm not as concerned now

[3:39:11] about what's side everyone's on and I'm going to try to think outside of side just good

[3:39:16] people that represent our community and represent different aspects of our community and represent

[3:39:24] different skills. And I hope that comes out in whatever applications we do.

[3:39:29] So would this be the time to make a suggestion on the structure of which of what we want to adopt because it seems like kind of like a hybrid of both?

[3:39:38] It does seem like a hybrid and in fact the ad hoc committee and the subcommittee are both types of committee that the brown out deals with and I don't pretend to be a legal expert or legal with regard to the city.

[3:39:54] But I can tell you that an ad hoc committee is a temporary advisory body.

[3:40:02] It means to have a specific defined purpose, something that they can support and do.

[3:40:09] It has a limited scope of duration, which basically means that you either give it a time frame

[3:40:17] or a task completion.

[3:40:18] So if you're wanting to end that ad hoc committee, certainly could have some council members

[3:40:27] and some community members on it, but that is a specific committee for a specific purpose.

[3:40:36] So if that is something that you're wanting, that's how an ad hoc committee works.

[3:40:40] It also is one of the types of committees that must have notice and fall all the other

[3:40:50] brown act rules.

[3:40:53] The second type of committee that I gave to you was the one that was only of two council

[3:40:57] members and so that does not follow the brown act with regard to meeting.

[3:41:04] When I wrote down what it was that each of you were kind of talking about, to talk about

[3:41:11] committees and correct me if I'm wrong, it sounded like Scott wanted a bit of a blend.

[3:41:19] He would like two council members and potentially three community members.

[3:41:25] An ad hoc committee is appointed by the mayor in our procedures. Scott did mention that.

[3:41:32] And that sounds more like an ad hoc committee with a specific purpose.

[3:41:38] Sounded like Kevin wanted, he just acknowledged that we really wanted a committee.

[3:41:46] He stated that he wanted to make sure that we have a true purpose for that committee.

[3:41:56] IRIS wants applications for the committee.

[3:42:01] She had talked about it being a large advisory committee, a little bit longer term,

[3:42:06] and wants to make sure that it follows the rules and procedures that regular committees have.

[3:42:14] That's more like a regular advisory committee.

[3:42:21] That was not an option on the agenda today, but could potentially be something that staff could bring back to you, maybe in March.

[3:42:31] Lisa asked for something more on the lines like Iris wanted, something with a work plan that's traditional for a regular advisory body committee.

[3:42:43] Something ongoing long-term, those are all long-term committees, not an ad hoc committee

[3:42:50] with a specific purpose, and also a blend of community and council.

[3:42:58] And the mayor talked about some of the really natural committees that have already formed.

[3:43:07] We have a large presence of both business owners from the surrounding area and individuals who have been working on the grounds.

[3:43:19] They talk all the time together, they give ideas to me all the time that they have talked about.

[3:43:27] And essentially, they are very much like a committee, many of them come here.

[3:43:32] and then there was the Napa County Fair friends.

[3:43:38] They did help organize the cleanup day.

[3:43:40] They're wanting to do another one.

[3:43:44] And there actually has been a fraction off of that group trying

[3:43:49] to start a non-profit, but not all of the group members.

[3:43:54] And it does sound like the mayor was reticent.

[3:44:00] But, but okay about forming a committee for a specific purpose.

[3:44:06] Yes.

[3:44:08] Yes.

[3:44:09] I am prepared to amend this and make a motion for a committee if a, sorry, you may have had something to say.

[3:44:19] Just what you said.

[3:44:20] Okay. You probably will say it more eloquently than me, principal.

[3:44:24] Okay.

[3:44:25] I'm not, I think we are capable.

[3:44:28] I think I'm going to have to redo that motion on what time we leave.

[3:44:33] I think we're perfectly capable of coming to a consensus amongst the five of us and come

[3:44:41] up with a motion tonight.

[3:44:44] And I don't think we have to send it back to staff.

[3:44:50] So I'm going to, this is a motion but you're allowed to alter it.

[3:45:00] Any way you want, and I'm not married to any of the piece, but I want to get this done. But before I do that motion, I'm going to suggest that we extend our time and 1015. I'm willing to get through at least a survey. Yeah. Yeah. 1015 and we do the survey right after this.

[3:45:28] Yes.

[3:45:29] That's fine.

[3:45:31] Okay.

[3:45:32] Mayor.

[3:45:33] You want to call us?

[3:45:34] I'll call.

[3:45:36] Yes.

[3:45:37] City Clerk.

[3:45:40] Council Member Eisenberg.

[3:45:41] Aye.

[3:45:42] Council Member Cooper.

[3:45:43] Aye.

[3:45:44] Council Member Gift.

[3:45:45] Aye.

[3:45:45] Vice Mayor Lopez Rotega.

[3:45:47] Aye.

[3:45:47] And Mayor Williams.

[3:45:48] Aye.

[3:45:49] Okay.

[3:45:49] So now I'll go back to the sorted democracies and not coming over.

[3:45:54] Okay.

[3:45:55] Okay, I think we all agree that we're going to have citizens on this committee.

[3:46:06] My personal feeling is we should still have two council members.

[3:46:12] And if staff wants to appoint a member, you may, but if you don't want to, we can handle

[3:46:21] it.

[3:46:21] Now you're referring to the committee addressing the survey?

[3:46:25] I'm starting with the easy stuff.

[3:46:30] The easy stuff would be composition.

[3:46:34] Two council members, four community members, that's a six-person committee, they can talk.

[3:46:45] Then, purpose, serve as for specific tasks specifically,

[3:46:58] work with the survey company

[3:47:00] to make sure that all the different issues within the fairgrounds are communicated to

[3:47:10] the survey company, provide a conduit for information between the whole community and

[3:47:17] the council, and from the council out to the community, and provide, using their expertise,

[3:47:28] provide specific tasks about the feasibility, the benefits, and problems

[3:47:39] with the various ideas that come through the committee and advise the council as a whole on those issues.

[3:47:56] So I support that, but I think that if I think having a staff liaison would be great, but as with most committees it should be an uneven number, so if it's two members of council.

[3:48:10] five community members.

[3:48:12] That's the one.

[3:48:14] But I don't picture this committee voting.

[3:48:18] I picture talking.

[3:48:22] So really on a standing advisory committee they would provide ongoing advice, research

[3:48:28] and recommendations and specific areas.

[3:48:32] So that's different from an ad hoc committee.

[3:48:34] Yes, I don't want an I want a standing committee.

[3:48:37] And you're talking about ad hoc committee?

[3:48:40] My initial thought was ad hoc.

[3:48:44] I've been thinking ad hoc from the beginning, but now, based on other council members,

[3:48:55] it's going to have a series of ad hoc duties,

[3:49:01] but we can't, I don't want to reconstitute

[3:49:03] the tarot part and reconstitute the committee every time there's a new duty added or a different duty

[3:49:10] or there comes up with some other way to deal with things.

[3:49:14] Which begs the question, why have the committee at all, when we can ask advice from the public,

[3:49:22] those members of the public who are knowledgeable?

[3:49:26] As a, well, I understand.

[3:49:30] And you're right, we could do everything all by ourselves, but we can also get help in doing some things.

[3:49:36] I would totally appreciate the help and so the survey is a perfect example.

[3:49:42] The input that the members of the public can offer on the questions on the topics will be valuable.

[3:49:52] But that's a limited, that's a limited purpose.

[3:49:56] You complete that and then we're going to have to reconstitute and start over with the next task.

[3:50:02] I would like to lift up the fair ground committee to the same level as our green committee,

[3:50:12] as our housing advisory committee.

[3:50:14] The same respect, the same amount of intention.

[3:50:18] We could be on part of it, but it needs to be the same degree of importance as these other committees.

[3:50:23] I mean, the green committee is very important, but so was the fair ground committee as is the transportation.

[3:50:30] I mean, I just think it needs to be elevated to be that same level.

[3:50:34] That's an incredibly important decision that we have to make here, and I think we need to give that respect personally.

[3:50:42] I want to make a motion.

[3:50:46] Not sure how to.

[3:50:47] Okay, I will make a motion.

[3:50:48] I think, yeah, you've got the notes.

[3:50:49] I will make a motion.

[3:50:51] By the way, my motion died for lack of a second.

[3:50:54] I'm sorry, I was trying to amend.

[3:50:56] Okay, I supported 99.9% of your motion.

[3:51:00] So I'm making a motion for a standing advisory committee,

[3:51:10] a committee that provides ongoing advice,

[3:51:14] research, and recommendations made

[3:51:19] up of five community members and two council members with the staff liaison,

[3:51:27] on, preferably Shelley for obvious reasons,

[3:51:33] and we can direct them on specific tasks as

[3:51:39] we move forward, such as the survey, which will be very soon.

[3:51:46] I see.

[3:51:46] And that's my motion.

[3:51:47] Sorry.

[3:51:47] I second it.

[3:51:48] I'd like to amend it to include a sunset and ending and ending and it can be renewed, but

[3:51:59] But I'd like it to have a fixed timeframe if the committee is approved.

[3:52:03] Otherwise, committees take on a life of their own and that's not necessarily a good thing.

[3:52:07] What term would you say here?

[3:52:11] So we have a second, so that means we can still vote.

[3:52:14] So my emotion is seconded, so we can still vote if we want.

[3:52:17] Well, we have to vote on the amendment.

[3:52:19] Okay.

[3:52:20] I mean, or unless you just want to say, I think the public will give us very loud advice at the end of that year.

[3:52:28] We're convincing us to go ahead and extend it as needed, pretty much indefinitely.

[3:52:33] If we listened to the public, which is our duty, and they expect us to extend it again for another year, we can't say no.

[3:52:41] So I would be in favor of that sunset, knowing that we can extend it, and we will, if there is demand.

[3:52:50] So as we have a motion to that effect, are we clear on the motion council members?

[3:52:56] I think so, and the amendment is accepted by the council.

[3:53:00] Yeah, the original motion maker needs to accept.

[3:53:02] Great.

[3:53:03] I will accept this, but I will hold this council to task by having this conversation in advance

[3:53:12] of that year mark so we can reach out for applications and renew this because I'm certain that's what our community blocks for so I am

[3:53:22] amendable to the amendment

[3:53:24] So that again, please. I'm amendable. Yes, I accept that I accept

[3:53:30] All right

[3:53:33] I'm not feeling supportive of this

[3:53:35] That's because I think it's redundant and I think that it can encounter the same problems and the same concerns that are expressed towards us, can be expressed towards that committee.

[3:53:50] And they're going to have to be subject to the Brown Act and open and so they can't be talking among themselves whoever they are.

[3:53:57] They're going to be good people, no question and the input will be valuable and I'm going to appreciate whatever input comes from the public.

[3:54:04] I think the committee's structure of formal, standing committee structure at this time is premature and maybe a dereliction of our own responsibility, even though nominally we're going to be still in charge.

[3:54:19] So I'm not going to be supportive of that.

[3:54:21] If it's merely an ad hoc committee with a specific task for a specific time, that's not before us, but in that case I could be supportive of a standing ongoing committee, I can't be supportive.

[3:54:31] So we have a motion, and a second, let's take a roll call, please.

[3:54:38] Council Member Eisenberg.

[3:54:40] Aye.

[3:54:41] Council Member Cooper.

[3:54:43] Aye.

[3:54:44] Council Member Gift.

[3:54:45] Aye.

[3:54:46] Vice Mayor Lopez Ortega.

[3:54:48] Aye.

[3:54:49] Mayor Williams.

[3:54:50] Aye.

[3:54:51] Okay.

[3:54:52] Council Member's good discussion.

[3:54:53] Thank you for the input.

[3:54:55] Let's go to, so it passes 4 to 1 with me in the center.

[3:55:00] So,

[3:55:04] let's see, it

[3:55:07] was 7

[3:55:11] .4,

[3:55:16] and we wanted to go to the survey next, I think council members, let's do that.

[3:55:22] That is 7.6.

[3:55:32] And this week, last meeting, it's a discussion about a consultant agreement with FM3 research for a statistically valid survey of the community needs and desires

[3:55:47] for the fairgrounds proper to use.

[3:55:50] Is there anything fairgrounds director

[3:55:53] that you would like to add to this before we bring it

[3:55:57] to the public again?

[3:55:58] So, Council, this is the same agreement that we brought to you

[3:56:03] in January on January 14th.

[3:56:07] And the consultant was on the phone to be able to speak with you

[3:56:12] but she may have had to have left already due to time.

[3:56:18] She's gone, yeah.

[3:56:20] So, you know, this firm is an excellent firm out of the Bay Area.

[3:56:27] All three firms that we contacted were from the Bay Area.

[3:56:30] They have knowledge of our small town and community.

[3:56:34] And I've talked extensively with the consultant who presented to us last time.

[3:56:41] And I feel very comfortable with their desires

[3:56:46] to help us with regard to a survey to our community.

[3:56:51] Great, thank you.

[3:56:53] Public comment.

[3:56:54] Anybody like to comment on this?

[3:57:01] Yes sir, yes, Mr. Riley.

[3:57:06] Once again, Tim Riley, and I'll just reference briefly the comment letter I submitted for this meeting.

[3:57:13] But at a previous meeting, I submitted comments about questions I had about the procurement process for the consultant.

[3:57:22] that the preferred alternative consulted.

[3:57:26] And now going back to the issue of continuity and the importance of continuity to start

[3:57:30] developing this credibility in what we're doing here.

[3:57:37] I think the survey, this initial survey that's being done under the auspices of the city is

[3:57:43] going to be kind of a very important milestone in that path of just staying unbiased and

[3:57:51] inclusive and open to a lot of ideas.

[3:57:57] So to me, it makes sense to continue to consider this consultant to be a strong contender.

[3:58:05] But if I was in the council's position, I would charge the committee with just reviewing

[3:58:12] the solicitation, reviewing the RFP, making sure the scope of work is consistent and contributory

[3:58:20] to an ongoing process that would begin with the survey and would end with the creation of two or three or four alternative master plans.

[3:58:32] That's what I see the continuity, the whole process to be.

[3:58:37] And this would be, in my view, an initial assignment for the committee to put their eyes on that process and

[3:58:44] evaluate it objectively, again, in the context of what's likely to be needed analytically

[3:58:50] down the road, and just give their opinion to the council if it's the best alternative

[3:58:59] that we have out there.

[3:59:00] I think that to blow by that path, that step without pausing to just illuminate that element

[3:59:07] of the process is a missed opportunity, and I don't see that it brings any benefit to the

[3:59:12] process to do that.

[3:59:13] But I see a lot of benefit to take the time to go through that review and get that advice.

[3:59:21] So you're thinking that a survey at this time is premature?

[3:59:25] Not necessarily, but it depends on the survey and it depends on the vision that the council has for

[3:59:34] how the information in the survey is going to be applied.

[3:59:38] And so to launch on a survey without having those understandings in place,

[3:59:42] I think the values, the survey, you could end up having to do it again.

[3:59:50] Mr. Riley, I have a question for you.

[3:59:52] Just for this council and for the public, would you please let us know your background and

[3:59:56] what your professional experience is because I think it's pertinent to what you're saying.

[4:00:00] I'll do it as quickly as I can. That's okay. You know, I have a degree in soil science from the University of California. I spent about 10 years as a field soil scientist. And then I got tired of being in the field. So I migrated to developing an expertise and regulatory compliance for private and public clients. And I built a consulting firm that numbered about 60 employees when I finally left and the staff was composed of archaeologists and geologists.

[4:00:29] and engineers and those kind of guys.

[4:00:32] And we represented private clients and federal agencies and state agencies

[4:00:36] as they sought their environmental permits to do things like build dams and build bridges and things like that.

[4:00:43] Part of that, body of work involved implementing public participation plans for public benefit projects.

[4:00:54] Thank you very much for sharing.

[4:00:55] Thank you.

[4:01:03] Thank you.

[4:01:04] Any other public comment?

[4:01:05] Thank you.

[4:01:06] Mr. Rowley.

[4:01:07] Other public comment.

[4:01:12] Carrie Eibou.

[4:01:14] Listening to all of this is this city is so famous for doing thousands of surveys that

[4:01:21] they never do anything with.

[4:01:23] I mean, really, it's like can't at this stage of the game, like you guys took possession

[4:01:30] in July 22nd, it is now February 4th and you're still running around like thinking can't

[4:01:41] you just simplify everything and think about, I mean a master plan, we spend 100,000 at

[4:01:48] the fairgrounds for the last master plan, that where is it, probably in a round file somewhere.

[4:01:53] I mean, it's so I understand that you have to have vision, but a survey, you've had so

[4:02:00] many meetings, you've had, you've had so many people that gathered at those meetings

[4:02:05] took four hours, five hours, to write down all their expertise, and here you are saying

[4:02:11] that the public can come to you, which I know a lot of people have, but just the time

[4:02:21] that you keep taking away from the simplicity of what can start happening.

[4:02:26] You have somebody here who hired to do the job.

[4:02:29] I mean, it just seems like it's so arduous to have to listen to bureaucracy

[4:02:34] where I get you have to do it, but, oh my gosh, it's so frustrating.

[4:02:38] It's so frustrating. I don't know if I'm the only one.

[4:02:40] I don't know why I'm still here, actually.

[4:02:42] But, I mean, I love Kalastoga. I love the fairgrounds.

[4:02:45] I fought like heck for it. Believe me.

[4:02:47] I just hope that you can think about the simplicity of what can happen.

[4:02:52] Thank you.

[4:02:52] Thank you, Kerry.

[4:02:55] Other public comment?

[4:03:03] Who's phone is that?

[4:03:08] As I said earlier, this is a very complex process and complex problem that if we don't take the right time and due diligence to get the entire community bought in to what we're doing, it's not going to succeed.

[4:03:25] And I think Mr. Riley has said a lot of intelligent things about this process, but I think one of the most intelligent is

[4:03:36] do the right thing to get the entire community to buy into what we're going to do.

[4:03:42] Because if you don't have that, we will never have civil conversations about this topic.

[4:03:49] And it will always be something that we wonder what could have been or what might be.

[4:03:57] And so taking the time to do this, I know it's painful to do that, but this is the

[4:04:05] way that real progress gets made, is by listening to everybody in this process.

[4:04:15] And by limiting the opportunity for us to participate, is limiting the buy-in that the community

[4:04:21] needs to believe in the vision that we all think we have for the space, but that's part

[4:04:27] of the problem is we all think we have a vision for it and we need to clarify what that

[4:04:32] vision is.

[4:04:34] And I have submitted numerous times a six step process to do that in conjunction with professionals

[4:04:42] who have consulted with that and not one of you has returned that request to talk about

[4:04:49] this, or even discuss it. And so, you get in a tough position. And I'm frustrated about

[4:04:56] that point. My overall point is when this ends, when we get to an endpoint, whether that's

[4:05:05] in three months or three years or 30 years, you need to ensure that the entire community

[4:05:10] knows that they were heard, and the entire community knows that we get what the entire

[4:05:17] community wants. And that to me, I think, is the most important part in this critical juncture.

[4:05:23] Thank you for listening. Thank you.

[4:05:32] Charlotte Williams. I'm looking at this room right now,

[4:05:38] and I don't see this community represented in this room. Not truly, I don't. And I'm not sure how

[4:05:45] many people who represent the whole community can show up at meetings like this in the evening

[4:05:51] and go on and on and on like this because many of them are at home with their children

[4:05:56] or their family celebrations or they're flat out working six days a week.

[4:06:02] So if I don't know exactly what a statistically accurate valid survey is,

[4:06:13] but as soon as I hear that I just think lies, damn lies, and statistics marked

[4:06:19] way. And if it's not just plain old accurate, never mind statistically accurate, then I don't

[4:06:28] think it's going to be worth the money or time that's spent on it. So when you show me a room

[4:06:35] full, that represents the people who live in this town, then I will believe that there's going

[4:06:42] to be a statistically or any sort of accurate survey.

[4:06:48] I don't know how many people in this room have gone door to door to every single voter

[4:06:54] in this town.

[4:06:55] I don't know how many of you have, but I have in the only street that I didn't go to

[4:07:01] was High Street.

[4:07:02] I have knocked on the door of every single voter in this town and I've done it twice.

[4:07:08] I've done it two and a half times and lots of people just aren't home you just you know unless

[4:07:15] you're going to be there after dinner time during dinner time first thing in the morning you miss

[4:07:20] people so I'm not sure how everybody's really going to be contacted but unless you hear of a

[4:07:30] A very accurate way of achieving that, then I think it would be a waste of money.

[4:07:40] Thank you.

[4:07:47] All right.

[4:07:48] Background.

[4:07:51] Like I said at the last meeting, like I said, kind of from the start, the surveys come

[4:07:55] up.

[4:07:56] I just think right now the cost associated to do it is my biggest drawback, right?

[4:08:01] We're trying to find money to fund everything and it comes with the price.

[4:08:06] the way I kind of think of it is we bought a boat and were in the water and our

[4:08:11] boat had holes in it to start with and we've been bailing water and we're doing a

[4:08:14] good job and it wasn't gonna happen overnight but I've got a gun in one hand

[4:08:19] and spending more money like shooting another hole in the bottom of the boat. We're

[4:08:22] gonna get there and we're gonna get this thing patched but from the start from day

[4:08:26] one when we all sat down and talked about purchasing this you guys we all

[4:08:32] broadcasted it to all of us, the public, that we are going to purchase this and we're

[4:08:37] going to get it afloat. And that's with the first goal of getting the historical uses

[4:08:42] up and running and create funding to make us flush. And that doesn't happen overnight,

[4:08:48] that doesn't happen in two months, that doesn't happen in what now six months. But we are still

[4:08:54] getting water out of the boat. So before we go and spend more money and again, complicate

[4:09:00] things more we need to get to a level playing field and kind of find some

[4:09:03] balance in this and it might just be my opinion but again talking to all of you

[4:09:09] and talking to the community and seeing the 200 plus people that showed up I

[4:09:14] mean if that's not a sign that we do have public interest and support I don't

[4:09:19] really know what is but I see a lot of progress and yes it might not be perfect

[4:09:23] and it might not be planned out to the T but progress is progress we just have

[4:09:27] that open our eyes and look at it.

[4:09:29] Thank you.

[4:09:35] City Clerk, is there anybody?

[4:09:38] Still online?

[4:09:39] No, I'm not.

[4:09:39] Okay, nobody online.

[4:09:41] And anyone else in the chamber's night?

[4:09:44] Would like to address the council?

[4:09:46] Okay, let's close public comment.

[4:09:48] Bring it back to council.

[4:09:52] Okay, first.

[4:09:53] Yes, councilman Eisenberg.

[4:09:55] Thank you.

[4:09:55] You did recognize me, didn't you?

[4:09:57] I thought you did.

[4:09:58] Okay, thank you.

[4:09:59] I tried to be quick with the hand.

[4:10:04] First, part of the reason for a survey really is as was mentioned by a couple of people that it will be inclusive, people will feel they have a stake, no matter whether they made it to a meeting or not, and that will make the final decision even more powerful or are all of our final decisions more powerful because everybody felt heard.

[4:10:27] There were suggestions that we abandoned the work that was done by staff to choose a survey

[4:10:35] company and assign it to the committee. I don't see that at all. I think choosing a survey

[4:10:42] company is a lot more. It's a staff activity. It was approved by council. All of the applicants

[4:10:51] looked good. The one that was chosen looks very good. They worked on a fair

[4:10:56] grounds and they worked on Petaluma. They had references. I really don't think

[4:11:03] that that is worth throwing away that work, which is not fundamental to the

[4:11:11] survey results. These are good companies with good references. So on that note,

[4:11:19] I move to approve the survey.

[4:11:24] I'd like to address the cost question.

[4:11:27] I pay insurance for my car, for my health, for my house.

[4:11:30] And in this case, this would be an insurance policy that we get it right.

[4:11:34] And I think that's money well spent.

[4:11:36] It's again, engaging part of the community like Charlotte said that just doesn't have access to it, doesn't have the time to go here.

[4:11:42] So the price to me is money well spent.

[4:11:44] And I believe after working on the subcommittee for since the beginning of my term, with the mayor, interviewing hundreds of not thousands of people, reading scores of emails that we can condense or distill all maybe the 20 to 30 questions that are really important in the community that we need to go down into the survey.

[4:12:09] into the survey. So if we had a subcommittee poking at all of this data, who knows how long it

[4:12:15] would take. And I can almost guarantee you that it would end up in maybe a 2% minutia.

[4:12:20] It would be distilled down to certain core questions that would go on the survey, maybe 20, 30, 40.

[4:12:27] I'm not sure what number that would be, but we have way more data than we need to go ahead and

[4:12:34] and create an extremely valid survey immediately.

[4:12:39] In my opinion, I think that needs to be done quickly,

[4:12:41] and we have everything we need to make it

[4:12:44] as concrete and successful as possible.

[4:12:47] OK?

[4:12:48] Yes.

[4:12:49] The only question I have regarding the financial impact

[4:12:54] is that the money will come for the infrastructure

[4:13:04] It makes me a little worried because we're going to take money from things that they need

[4:13:10] to be done in the city. Is there any way that we can get the money from another fund?

[4:13:19] We could take it from the General Fund Reserve. The fund that you're speaking about that

[4:13:26] we're recommending it come from was created by the council in recently, specifically

[4:13:33] for sort of things that come up.

[4:13:37] Okay.

[4:13:38] So from a staff perspective, we're comfortable with it.

[4:13:41] It's not going to affect any other projects that we have.

[4:13:45] Correct.

[4:13:45] It is not going to take away money from any other project.

[4:13:49] Okay.

[4:13:49] As long as that's happening, I'm fine with it.

[4:13:52] So we have one minute.

[4:13:53] So I will second your motion.

[4:13:58] I call the question.

[4:14:02] Then I'm not going to be supportive of a survey at this time.

[4:14:06] I am supportive of wanting to know what the folks think.

[4:14:09] I don't think we need to do a survey.

[4:14:10] They cost this much money to know what the population town is interested in.

[4:14:15] I could be supportive of a survey down the road as we get farther along.

[4:14:20] And I like Mr. Rodley's idea of having a couple of different options, two or three or four

[4:14:24] different options.

[4:14:24] and then finding out in a valid survey, then.

[4:14:29] I think it's too early at this point, and I think it's too much money to spend at this point when we really have to, as Mr. Ferris said, plug the holes in the boat at this time.

[4:14:41] So I'm not going to be supportive of it at this time.

[4:14:44] We have a motion and a second, let's take a roll call, please.

[4:14:48] Please.

[4:14:50] Council Member Esenberg.

[4:14:51] Aye.

[4:14:52] Council Member Cooper.

[4:14:54] Aye.

[4:14:55] Council Member Gift.

[4:14:56] Aye.

[4:14:58] Vice Mayor Lopez Ortega.

[4:14:59] Aye.

[4:15:00] Mayor Williams. Okay,

[4:15:03] we are 15. Right, at 1015. Exactly. At the time you are next.

[4:15:15] Let's see.

[4:15:18] Come this far. Yeah, let's go for it. I'm going to move that we continue till 1045. I can't do 1045.

[4:15:30] How are you going to withdraw that motion?

[4:15:33] I mean, I can go back.

[4:15:34] What do we do back?

[4:15:36] We can finish this point in five minutes.

[4:15:39] Which one?

[4:15:41] This is the feasibility plan.

[4:15:43] Yeah.

[4:15:45] Okay.

[4:15:45] Yeah.

[4:15:45] That's good.

[4:15:46] All right.

[4:15:48] And then what?

[4:15:48] 10.30?

[4:15:49] We still need a motion.

[4:15:51] And a vote.

[4:15:52] 10.30?

[4:15:53] Motion to continue this meeting till 10.30.

[4:15:58] Second.

[4:16:05] And we're all, and I also, so we're all, we're all in agreement.

[4:16:10] Okay.

[4:16:11] We're on 7.5,

[4:16:16] okay.

[4:16:18] See members of the public, let's see, we're continuing with the meeting.

[4:16:22] This one is the consideration of a fairgrounds, business, visibility plan.

[4:16:30] And any initial comments for us.

[4:16:32] Thank you, Mayor, council members.

[4:16:34] As the last item today, I bring to you the consideration of a fairgrounds business feasibility plan.

[4:16:41] During prior city council meetings, there's been-

[4:16:44] Should the meeting, Mr. Ring.

[4:16:46] Folks, we have the meeting going on.

[4:16:49] I'm sorry.

[4:16:50] No problem.

[4:16:51] So during prior city council meetings, there's been discussion regarding the interests of some type of larger plan.

[4:16:58] plan for the Callistoga Fairgrounds and in this discussion we recommend soliciting proposals

[4:17:06] from external companies to use both past and current information and potentially from

[4:17:16] the Statistically Valid Survey to devise several phased plans that have identified sustainable

[4:17:23] impacts for both historic and new potential uses.

[4:17:26] These proposals should at a minimum establish a baseline from community input and new ideas

[4:17:34] and must incorporate the development of a fiscal plan as part of the process in order

[4:17:39] to ensure sustainability for the grounds.

[4:17:43] The phases of the project should include an initial feasibility study, a proposal for cost management

[4:17:49] on the components of each phase, a proposal for construction management on the components

[4:17:55] of each project and a phased recommendation for any other consultants we may need such as architects,

[4:18:03] structural engineers, or design teams to complete the overall project.

[4:18:09] This plan must ensure that any new uses align with a financially sustainable model

[4:18:16] while preserving the city's unique character in small town.

[4:18:20] The efforts with regard to the proposed plans and the design should guide future choices

[4:18:25] on financial investments and address the historically revenue negative activities of the grounds and improve overall operations.

[4:18:35] All of this should be done with an understanding of the purchase contract for the property.

[4:18:40] Staff is seeking council input with regard to this report.

[4:18:44] Great, thank you.

[4:18:45] Let's open for public comment on this item.

[4:18:50] Yes, Mr. Al.

[4:18:52] Well, given the two prior votes that we now have a committee formed, or going to form a committee, and we have a survey, I think it's, I'm glad you're bringing these things up, but I think it's a little bit too early to look at a feasibility plan at this point in time, certainly should happen at some point if it's in the six point plan that we've presented, but I think it's too early for this exact item in my opinion. Thank you.

[4:19:18] Thank you.

[4:19:28] I'd just like to offer for consideration that I want to really clarify that we've not been advocating for a business facility feasibility plan.

[4:19:39] We've been advocating for a public participation plan that includes conceptual drawings and rough approximation of financial performance and alternative revenue streams

[4:19:55] that could be assembled and then presented to the community so they can weigh in on their preferences.

[4:20:03] This level of analysis would be relatively coarse-grained and

[4:20:08] would be adequate to support reason public input.

[4:20:14] But wouldn't go as far in terms of the details of constructability and

[4:20:21] other, you know, other elements that seem to be the focus of this business feasibility plan.

[4:20:30] Instead, what we think is needed now is a plan for public participation that clearly focuses

[4:20:35] on cultivating wide public input and delivers a range of master plan alternatives. So in lieu of

[4:20:43] approving a business feasibility plan, I would request that the council consider

[4:20:50] clearly articulating and endorsing a plan for public participation and developing a public participation plan that roughly follows the six-step process that we've offered for consideration in, you know, previous comments.

[4:21:10] Thank you.

[4:21:11] Thank you.

[4:21:12] Good

[4:21:23] evening, Council.

[4:21:24] Aaron Harkin, 1542 Centennial Circle.

[4:21:29] I'm taking off my daily job hat as a developer.

[4:21:32] I'm managing a little project in town here,

[4:21:34] and I'm just coming to you as a citizen

[4:21:36] who lives across the street from the fairgrounds

[4:21:39] and cares daily where we're going.

[4:21:41] Bottom line, this is, in my view,

[4:21:42] the most important issue in addition to the community input

[4:21:46] is gathering this data as it relates to cost

[4:21:49] to drive where you're going with all this stuff.

[4:21:53] You're getting into the development game.

[4:21:55] You're going to have to develop a pro forma.

[4:21:57] The pro forma is going to have to take on both hard costs, soft costs,

[4:22:01] current fees that are associated with just the ongoing work of the fairgrounds.

[4:22:07] You have a lot of buildings on this property currently.

[4:22:11] You need to understand what is the feasibility of all those buildings

[4:22:15] and what you're going to do with them at the onset.

[4:22:17] that this is all about cost data.

[4:22:20] All these feelings, opinions, great things

[4:22:23] that people are going to suggest don't go anywhere

[4:22:26] without cost data.

[4:22:28] So this is imperative to being able to get these ideas

[4:22:31] that all the community is going to put together

[4:22:33] in a fishbowl that you can say, hey,

[4:22:35] I've got the greatest idea in the world.

[4:22:37] But if it doesn't cost out with any semblance of reality,

[4:22:41] it's not worth the time that idea is.

[4:22:43] Moreover, you're going to need to likely get financing at some point.

[4:22:48] Well, this information collected, this data, this feasibility information will give you that tool that you will need in order to embark on those financing efforts.

[4:22:58] So, again, I very much so in my professional opinion and as a citizen, I encourage you to embark on this effort.

[4:23:05] Thank you.

[4:23:06] Thank you.

[4:23:12] Yes, Mr. Ferris.

[4:23:13] I'm going to just reiterate what was just said as we take in all this information and try

[4:23:19] to plan and change and potentially turn things left, right, upside down, keep it the

[4:23:25] same.

[4:23:26] Now we're going to need to understand what costs are associated to all of that.

[4:23:30] We can spend a much of time planning an upside down racetrack, but if we don't know the cost

[4:23:36] associated to that, we're kind of just spending our wheels.

[4:23:39] So, I think, moving forward, if we want to start looking at truly seeing what this place could be or see the same, what not, we need to have a cost associated to it.

[4:23:50] Thank you.

[4:23:54] Did anybody else like to comment on this item?

[4:23:57] Or let's check online, City Clerk.

[4:23:59] Okay.

[4:24:01] Let's close the public comment and bring it back to us.

[4:24:05] Council members, would you like to start on this?

[4:24:09] I think that a feasibility study will certainly be prudent for us at some point.

[4:24:17] I don't think that right now is that time to take that step, especially with just forming this committee of community members and enacting the survey.

[4:24:29] I think this could be a possible next step, so I vote that we table this.

[4:24:33] Okay. Other comments? Yes.

[4:24:37] I agree with Council Member Gift. It should be tabled. Great idea. It's just...

[4:24:44] Let's get the survey done. Let's get the committee in starting to work.

[4:24:53] And so that right now, as soon as you start doing this, you're cutting off the ideas.

[4:25:00] Let's get all the ideas in, and then more direction and more direction from council over the things that we think are even feasible from our point of view, and then we could get the feasibility plan.

[4:25:17] Or the wants and then let's see if they're even feasible.

[4:25:20] I mean, I think that Mr. Harkin established the importance in a very clear and concise way.

[4:25:29] And I think this needs to be implemented very quickly, but at the same time I think this is a perfect example of discussion or action item that the committee could mull over.

[4:25:41] I think this would be one of the most important tasks that we could assign them.

[4:25:45] So, that would give us time to put the committee in place, and one of the most immediate questions

[4:25:51] and tasks would be to review this very carefully and come back to us with some advice.

[4:25:59] So, I agree that maybe postponing it temporarily, but it needs to happen as quickly as possible.

[4:26:04] Yeah, I agree that this item needs to happen sooner better than later, but we need to get

[4:26:16] all the information first and then, you know, so we can take the right decision about

[4:26:24] this, but for sure, it has to be done, not necessary today, but, you know, we can table

[4:26:33] All these for the next meeting and continue the discussion.

[4:26:38] And I'm okay with tabling it.

[4:26:41] I make a motion to be tabled.

[4:26:43] Done.

[4:26:44] What you already made.

[4:26:47] So that's done.

[4:26:48] All right, thank you, Council.

[4:26:49] Thank you for bringing this to us.

[4:26:52] I think we're going to get back here at some point, but not quite yet.

[4:26:55] Thank you.

[4:26:56] Thank you, everyone, for sticking out with us.

[4:26:59] Yes.

[4:26:59] Appreciate it.

[4:27:00] We were at, yeah.

[4:27:01] No, we're at the end.

[4:27:02] And let's continue, we have to continue with the mid your budget, let's do that next

[4:27:11] time.

[4:27:11] Yeah, next time.

[4:27:12] And I can't do this.

[4:27:13] I want to report.

[4:27:15] And be before that.

[4:27:16] I don't have a report.

[4:27:18] Anything else?

[4:27:20] The budget report, I think, is important that we get into that, not today, but the mid your

[4:27:30] budget.

[4:27:31] But will be possible to have a special meeting maybe next week, or you know, because we need to discuss this.

[4:27:42] So I think it's important that we bring it back, so is that okay?

[4:27:47] Would you like us to pull you out on a potential special meeting next week?

[4:27:52] Sure, can we possibly do it remotely?

[4:27:56] Or no?

[4:27:57] Do we need, is it so important that we need a special meeting?

[4:27:59] Is there a heavy agenda next time?

[4:28:01] Yeah, because it's the budget.

[4:28:04] Yeah.

[4:28:04] I understand.

[4:28:06] Does it?

[4:28:09] It's very important.

[4:28:11] We do have to go over it.

[4:28:12] But if we put it off three weeks, is it in any way going to impede the city's progress?

[4:28:23] Yeah.

[4:28:23] Because we are getting close to the new budget.

[4:28:28] I mean, the conversations are new budgets, so I think that's important that we get to this and

[4:28:40] be ready for the next one.

[4:28:43] This is a mid-year update and so it wouldn't really necessarily affect next year's budget

[4:28:49] and the process.

[4:28:51] We can do them simultaneously.

[4:28:56] All right.

[4:28:58] until the next regular meeting?

[4:28:59] Yes?

[4:29:00] Okay.

[4:29:01] All right, that's to that then.

[4:29:03] I think that concludes our meeting.

[4:29:06] Thank you, Council.

[4:29:08] Thank you.

[4:29:09] Members of the public and staff.

City Council - Feb 04 2025

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