[5:06] The existing single-family neighbourhood. Okay, council, we will call our meeting to order, our work session of the October.

[5:18] We will start with our incents agenda items. And then go back to our 12

[5:29] was our minutes from the September 27th.

[5:33] 13,

[5:39] 13. Many of these items were from our being republished on the agenda from our last canceled meeting. So.

[5:47] So 13 was from the prior one for bumpers.

[5:57] This is a kind of in line with our normal fleet replacement, both based on the long

[6:03] lead times right now, but we got a good deal.

[6:05] If you look at the per price unit, it represents a better deal than what I heard at TML relative

[6:10] to some other cities are paying.

[6:13] Number 14.

[6:31] I'd like to know on that one, obviously it's much better that that got hit versus seeing all of our trucks or certainly personnel.

[6:44] But have we come up with a strategy to either avoid or minimize the potential for that being damaged in the future?

[6:54] Because I'm guessing without that, I mean, do we have a way to hold the mobile barrier at this time?

[7:00] Have we leased something or leave

[7:05] it to the chief?

[7:14] Yes, the mobile barrier is a brand new concept in barrier protection for public safety.

[7:21] We're kind of writing the book with it.

[7:23] We are having an after-action meeting to kind of review all the things that happened over

[7:27] the month and a half we had it in service to.

[7:28] It was actually hit a previous time before this one, so we're trying to develop a way that

[7:34] that we can deploy safely.

[7:36] There are ways that we're trying to jackknife the engine back,

[7:39] the tractor back to protect it more.

[7:42] Unfortunately, there's no way to really fully protect it

[7:45] from anything, ever hitting it.

[7:47] But the design of it is to have the trailer take the impact,

[7:50] so we're trying to minimize that by jackknifeing

[7:52] that tractor over more.

[7:54] Which means we'll need to take up more of the freeway lanes

[7:56] to be able to do that, to give us room to do that.

[7:58] But we are learning, it's a learning process.

[8:01] We're gonna have an after-action review

[8:03] We'll send that report to the city manager right heart to have her review it and then kind of go from there and we're developing a policy at this time and how we're going to deploy it.

[8:12] So do you have something that you're able to pull the mobile barrier with right now?

[8:16] No, sir. The trailer has been inspected. It's fine. It's good. It's not damaged at all from the impact, but we do not have a replacement reserve tractor for it.

[8:26] Could we release one just to get that back out there? I mean, I think recent events have shown that

[8:31] With that question, we need to have something like that, especially if we have that as

[8:35] available.

[8:36] I think the challenge with leasing a tractor to purposely put it on a freeway to block

[8:42] traffic, I think it's a difficult discussion to have with the company that's going to lease

[8:46] these.

[8:48] You know, even with our public works resources that we have to take a truck and just the

[8:53] nature of what this thing is designed to do, it's a big ask to get someone to lease

[8:57] us a truck in the event it gets hit so we haven't explored that option we're

[9:03] very fortunate that Dwayne was able to identify another truck and we're able to

[9:07] only have it out of service of month as you've mentioned if it was a truck it

[9:10] would have been truck 112 that the two and a half million dollar truck would have

[9:13] been out there that would have been hit and it would have been at least a 30

[9:16] month replacement to get that thing back in service so the blocker performed as

[9:21] designed unfortunately the the weakest part of it got hit and damaged which

[9:25] We're in the process of replacing so so she maybe as part of the eight after action review

[9:31] Recommendation if it's required on a we're done and see for a future will leave that to you

[9:36] That was part of your a our after action review. Yes, sir

[9:45] Thank you, thank you mayor. I think you may have answered it about

[9:49] Yeah, is that the future consideration of second

[9:53] Second one

[9:54] Not only a genus and I, but as part of the after-action review, if they'll look at that and it required them to come back to us.

[10:05] Number 15, Chevy Tahoe's, also for more sleep replacement programs.

[10:16] These for the police departments?

[10:19] Number

[10:21] 16, neighborhood improvement programs.

[10:24] This is for my own out, which takes the contract to $3.3 million, $1.1.

[10:31] A couple of neighbourhoods in question.

[10:34] Any questions on that?

[10:38] Number 17 is school zone signs.

[10:42] This is taking the time zones off of it,

[10:45] and instead putting the wind flashing.

[10:50] My question, Mr. Mayor,

[10:54] is there a time limit or a time period

[10:56] that these lights may be flashing,

[10:59] besides schools on areas?

[11:03] In the schools on time.

[11:08] If the light isn't working then the officer couldn't enforce it.

[11:13] And if they're going off at that random time then presumably that's what I was like.

[11:19] That's what that's without my question.

[11:20] The officer wouldn't enforce it most likely.

[11:24] Like if it's so what I've seen a lot is on holiday.

[11:27] You know, it's going because nobody turned it off.

[11:31] In general, the officers just aren't going to enforce it because it's not a schools on time.

[11:38] That was my concern.

[11:39] I'll see if that's right.

[11:40] John, we have Director of Engineering.

[11:42] I agree.

[11:45] Thank you, sir.

[11:46] Thank you.

[11:49] Okay.

[11:50] Seeing no other questions, we'll move on item number 18.

[11:55] This was a changing the sub apparatus, removing the sub apparatus operator position,

[12:04] condensing some rules, changes to sub functions for firefighters.

[12:11] Number 19, governance policy.

[12:15] This went through our ad hoc governance committee, which is our standing finance and audit committee,

[12:22] based on our pain or retreat and so I think we charge them as a council to go off and

[12:31] look at a number of areas and they've done that.

[12:36] So, you know, for Tim, Palacias, any, any things, comment you might make on that?

[12:41] Maybe a highlight, highlights and then we'll see if there's any questions.

[12:44] Sure. Thank you, Mayor. The committee met and we discussed some of the items of a

[12:52] broad forest during the summer of the items were things such as engineering, gifts of

[13:00] the forums, social media, you know, how do you make this enforceable and I just want to

[13:07] take a moment and say that there was a lot of learning on behalf of the committee for these

[13:10] items because this is really our document is how I'll submit to the council that this

[13:17] is a document as is stated right in the introduction that we utilize and that we draft and

[13:22] that we create for ourselves.

[13:24] And so with that being said, we took a very close look at it and I know that we had unanimous

[13:32] consent on what is being presented to you all.

[13:35] There was one committee member that was, you know, unavailable to attend, right?

[13:44] Absolutely.

[13:45] And so, but we were able to hold the meeting with Quorum, and so what you guys have presented

[13:51] before you, please now that I went through thorough review and discussion, and I'm happy

[13:59] to answer any questions.

[14:00] I don't know.

[14:00] Now we're perhaps later during the...

[14:03] We don't have a work session specifically for this, so I would suggest that if you have

[14:08] questions on the edits, let's talk about the edits.

[14:10] If there's questions about items that we're not at, that we can take.

[14:14] That's not part of the agenda tonight, and we'll, rather than doing any of that from the

[14:18] dius, we can send that back to the committee to review.

[14:23] I think we're voting on the governance policy.

[14:26] So when you say not to discuss something that wasn't edited, how's that not part of the consideration?

[14:34] We're considering the edits that were brought forth right now.

[14:38] We're considering the government's policy as a whole, are we not?

[14:41] We are considering the edits to the policy as it was reviewed as a council charge the committee to review.

[14:52] So I would disagree with and I'll start off by saying I'd like to have this pulled from the

[14:56] considerate enough, individual consideration.

[15:01] So we have a work session on this. We do have a work session on it. Okay, then we'll come back to that. Thank you. Number six. Number four, but we will pull this council for individual consideration. Number 20, Santira Line capacity, requirements there in Duncan Heights,

[15:32] 21,

[15:38] typical dance that we do with

[15:41] with these rate changes on core in this case.

[15:49] 22 raise rates.

[15:51] Second, everybody wants the raise rate?

[15:53] That's right.

[15:55] Item number 22.

[15:57] This is records management software for our fire department.

[16:07] 23.

[16:15] Mark Guy told me this is our very last notice project going into design.

[16:21] So we'll have a new program to talk later.

[16:27] 24.

[16:29] This is a renewal of a two-year contract, so this is the second year, is that right?

[16:40] Number 25, Texas Carcare.

[16:45] This is basically a rebid for prior award recipient was unable to perform, so we went back

[16:53] to market.

[16:57] Item 26 to 34 are our appointments that we reach consensus on during executive session for a personnel related appointments.

[17:11] Any questions on any of those?

[17:12] And I've already asked that 28 be pulled for individual consideration and I was about to ask the same question.

[17:17] Okay, so you want to pull 28 for individual consideration?

[17:20] Yes I do.

[17:21] Fair enough.

[17:23] Any other items to be pulled?

[17:24] Can I ask a, Mr. Mayor, can I ask a question on that?

[17:28] Yeah, recognize from a procedure perspective, of course items discussed in executive session should not be, you know,

[17:35] executive session content should not be shared during public forum or open meeting.

[17:41] My question is that if this was all discussed during an executive session, if we pull it for a general session,

[17:50] what conversation one would be having outside of what was held in an executive session?

[17:55] Any person can state their opinion, but they can't relate back to it.

[17:59] And it can be the same opinion they expressed during an executive session, because that's still

[18:03] the remains of their personal opinion, the discussion that had during executive session can't

[18:09] be relayed.

[18:09] If you are unable to relate anything that was discussed during executive session but you

[18:19] can venture an opinion as long as it doesn't align to what was in the executive session.

[18:22] Your own opinion.

[18:24] So if your opinion is I want Sue to be on the park or then you can still say I want Sue

[18:32] to be on the park or do not.

[18:35] Right.

[18:35] Because that's still your own personal opinion, whether it's expressed here.

[18:38] Okay.

[18:39] Thank you for that clarification.

[18:48] Finishes our consent agenda item, so now we'll move back to our work session.

[18:53] We'll circle back to the governance policy that we started talking about.

[18:56] So, may I put our template off to you so if you want to continue your overview?

[19:02] Very well.

[19:03] Thank you, Mayor.

[19:05] So, I understand that everyone has, of course, the document that was provided in the packets

[19:12] And I'll just kind of reiterate that the committee took a look at the items that were presented at the retreats and such items were, as was mentioned before.

[19:29] And so with that being said, I think what might be a little more appropriate would be, if there's any quick questions, there is one particular item I'd like us to draw our attention to, but mayor with your permission,

[19:43] I'd like to first see if there's anything that perhaps the committee and I could address first

[19:49] um and then there is one item that I do want to groom council's it's just a two that's fine if

[19:54] you want to kind of draw their attention to that first and that way um we don't lose side of it and

[19:59] one of the one of the open it up to questions one of the first items I'd like to draw two is page 14

[20:08] okay nine two points one

[20:13] eight five put one eight

[20:16] I want to make sure I take this correctly but of the entire document, I know that Council

[20:21] member Young Sung as well understands this, or the entire document, this is really where

[20:26] there's a reference to City Charter 2.04, so I just want to make another of that publicly.

[20:35] And then the last portion that I want to bring attention to would be what I'm going to call

[20:41] as a double-edged sword and that is our 3.3 so if you can go backwards please if

[20:54] you're

[20:55] probably a test or not I am if you're there already at age 5, thank you so I think this

[21:03] might be where we wish to have most of our discussion but 3.3 and then 3.4 are written

[21:13] there, but I think there's a healthy discussion that I want a point that we had in the committee

[21:21] and that is that, you know, it could be best summarized as double as sore if that makes

[21:26] sense.

[21:29] You know, once it's here, as it is written there, it really applies to all of us and in

[21:39] instances, and so I just want to submit to counsel that if this is something that is left here,

[21:46] if that's what the majority of us decide to, then this is again something that would be bound

[21:51] to page 13,

[21:58] yeah, definitely. So what was here before?

[22:04] Prior? Yeah, that's absolutely correct.

[22:13] I

[22:14] during the summer. And in the best attempt to try to capture the spirit of what that was

[22:19] during the summer is what you see here as a 3.3 and a 3.4.

[22:28] Council Member Young-Sun.

[22:29] Thank you.

[22:30] Mayor Prokten.

[22:32] This 3.3, in the past, experiences that, especially about endorsement, they've been loosely

[22:41] the indoors members, the mayor has been indoors of the candidates.

[22:45] At the same time, there's a one thing that will stand out, or it's not here, or say

[22:53] verbatim, about recommendation.

[22:56] When council member recommends someone, especially someone in our city students, like for

[23:03] instance, someone who's in senior high school needs some recommendations that means so much

[23:10] to them getting scholarships, references,

[23:13] they'll know who you've grown up with.

[23:15] Those are very, very important subjects

[23:17] that we can give, that reference to give some hope

[23:20] and better opportunity, better chance to get that scholarship.

[23:25] For us to be able to recommend someone like that,

[23:30] so much who you know, that who you grew up with,

[23:32] who you know as family members, who really needs it.

[23:34] So, at that, somehow to put input that in there, in there to help to relieve some of

[23:41] the disordered needs so that we could get a chance to, if it's a tip over scenario situation.

[23:50] So I'd like to somehow either incorporate that in there or have a separate item to input

[23:55] that in there.

[23:56] I know it's been on our council members, but approved, we've not proved this shot now,

[24:03] used, I believe it's endorsed, but it's been doing that many, many years and many in

[24:09] the past.

[24:09] So, that's not part of our life.

[24:12] Mayor, with your permission, if I could just ask Mayor to something, I just want to make

[24:16] sure we understand that, you know, staff doesn't make the rules, right?

[24:19] But Mayor, if possible, with 3.3 and 3.4, and I think we can maybe come right to Council

[24:26] As a member, Young's question, with 3.3 and 3.4 hypothetically, if this was adopted,

[24:31] accepted, you know, what would that imply for a typical council member?

[24:35] Or would this mean?

[24:36] Just to break down the language, it says you cannot use your official position.

[24:40] So what that would do in a situation like Council Member Sung is mentioning, is you couldn't

[24:45] write a recommendation letter for somebody and sign Council Member.

[24:49] You could write a recommendation letter from Young Sung, but not from Council Member Sung.

[24:53] Because you cannot use your official position or the privileges of the position.

[24:59] And that part of the privileges of the position goes to using your position.

[25:04] So if you take a picture in the back of the police department of yourself with the police officer,

[25:10] you can't use that for your campaign.

[25:14] Now, if you're out in the public, you can.

[25:16] Because the members of the public don't have access to the back part of the police department.

[25:22] And you can't use the DIAS to announce things, and you can't use your title to say things

[25:29] because that would be a violation of this provision.

[25:33] So posting on social media with your title, saying you're running for office from the

[25:38] DIAS, all the things that y'all have complained to me about would not be able to happen anymore.

[25:46] And this is from the federal definition.

[25:48] So, can we, can you based on Texas Ethics Commission or other requirements outside of this document, right?

[25:59] If this, if this 3.3 was not on this document at all, are, is there any other rules that exist that provide some level of governance for candidates and office holders relative to some of these types of things?

[26:17] There are certain requirements regarding promotion of a business or things like that.

[26:21] So I added some of those Texas things in here as we were discussing them, just to make

[26:26] sure that the language matched Texas law because the promotion of a business or service

[26:30] or thing, or candidate, you're not supposed to use your official position to endorse a

[26:36] candidate.

[26:37] We're not supposed to lobby.

[26:38] There's all these rules out there and I don't know the ethics commission by heart because

[26:42] A, I don't want to get into advising you as a candidate so I don't moderate, but that's

[26:46] where someone comes from.

[26:48] Quick question.

[26:49] Meredith, thank you for that.

[26:52] But when we go to ribbon card, our pictures are taken, and sometimes they say Councilmember

[26:59] Pendleton, Councilmember.

[27:01] So it means we cannot use that, or other people cannot use that.

[27:05] You would not be able to use it for yourself.

[27:08] I mean, how do you avoid that if they don't do that?

[27:10] Yeah, it's there's concern that this could be a separate novel.

[27:14] I'll say that down all over the place.

[27:15] I don't have this because that's not a violation of state law.

[27:18] It would be a violation of this because what what y'all said at the

[27:23] strategic retreat and what Andrew took and what I wrote down is you

[27:26] didn't want election hearing, right?

[27:29] And then other people don't want council members to use their official

[27:32] position to do certain activities like endorsing candidates.

[27:35] So all of that is encompassed in the same way.

[27:37] You can't you can't carve it out.

[27:39] You can't say that you're taking it.

[27:41] You can't say.

[27:42] Right.

[27:43] Right.

[27:44] Yeah.

[27:44] What's something you said?

[27:45] We can't use it like Councilmember Salisane.

[27:48] We'll go to a ribbon cutting.

[27:49] Yeah.

[27:50] We can't use that for ourselves.

[27:52] But say if the participant that we went to says we had Councilmember X here at our ribbon cutting

[27:59] is that okay?

[28:00] They can use it.

[28:00] They can because it's not-

[28:02] They're not bound by your government policy.

[28:04] Well, if he's not campaigning, can he put it on there?

[28:07] Sure.

[28:07] I went to the ribbon cutting today and saw this brand new dentist place.

[28:12] And we only talk about ribbon cuttings that are administered by the City of Carroll.

[28:15] We're talking about anything that you can do because of the privilege of your position.

[28:21] So you taking, yeah, you know, like taking a picture, sitting with me in my office,

[28:26] most people don't get to come into my office. You know, it's not like the City Attorney's office is

[28:30] opening the public the same way the City Secretary's area is focused. So it's kind of like that.

[28:34] Wow, is it possible for you to specifically point out what is already in the Texas audience

[28:44] and what is not so we can be able to delineate between what we're actually enforcing as

[28:50] ourselves that is not in the U.N.

[28:52] Not at the top of my hand.

[28:54] And again, my suggestion is that striking something's one thing, right, because this is an

[29:01] and I think if you all want to strike this item or leave it, that's up to you.

[29:06] That's up to you.

[29:08] What my previous comment about editing this from the DIES is wordsmithing something that

[29:15] might have unintended meanings and so forth, striking, accepting or rejecting an edit

[29:21] is not what I'm talking about.

[29:22] I think you should review and accept and reject edits, and in this particular one, I would

[29:28] And I would like to understand what this particular edit is something that the council is consensus on.

[29:36] Is there any deadline other than self-imposed?

[29:41] That's okay, so we don't have to approve this tonight.

[29:44] That's correct.

[29:45] And I think because I have three edits, and I don't think we want to get into it right now.

[29:49] I've got way more than three.

[29:52] It's a good time to talk about it because each individual council member can't go back to mayor at them.

[30:00] I put in an end and then let's bring it back. So if there's something in here, you're like, hey, I, 3.3, I don't want that at all. Then we need to get some consensus. And anything that you make in a measure at it, I would suggest that needs to go back to the Finance Committee for reconsideration. I want this major edits. I want the governance committee that we set up as a lot of houses to go back. The work session part is in red and everything else is here.

[30:29] yellow? Can someone interpret for me with the red versus the yellow?

[30:33] When I sent you, there was one error where it was red. I don't know why, but oh, it's because

[30:38] I added that language for a certain few clarification, um, so I can't read. Based on the discussions of

[30:50] the finance government, the digital, whatever,

[30:57] the, there was some concerns raised at one point

[31:00] about pre-meeting versus work session.

[31:02] And so this was just combined with two

[31:05] so that it didn't look funny on the agenda anymore.

[31:07] It was more of this your practice.

[31:10] Like, you know, somebody said,

[31:12] I don't want to see every comment.

[31:13] Well, before the meeting,

[31:15] I went through and was read the default document

[31:24] Yeah, it's been a while, it's, and originally it said, shall be reviewed annually, um, I don't know where the, and the discussion that we held is at, that's really, it's really a council thing, right, because this is our document. Yeah, and so, um, but yes, Mary, you're correct, that's the wording on this document.

[31:42] Does it remain that way or periodically?

[31:44] That's what we reviewed on an annual basis and modified a council direction.

[31:48] And so I think that's still fair. We just make sure that it becomes part of this finance.

[31:52] You know, if they're ad hoc role, they have a meeting side to your kind of make sure that

[31:56] they review it and council has an opportunity to kind of give some talking points.

[32:00] But in the past, he has not done review annually.

[32:03] It has not been, right? So we're out of compliance, but this council is bringing it in compliance.

[32:08] So why don't we just because it probably does make sense to at least see if we have edits for further discussion.

[32:15] We don't have to take action. I think we will. It seems like this consensus to pull it. We'll pull this item.

[32:21] We don't have to table it, right? We'll just polish.

[32:24] So we'll just start page by page page four. Any comments on?

[32:29] Yes, sir.

[32:31] So if you go back to that three page,

[32:41] I'm sorry, page four is the purpose, permit any interest financial

[32:46] or otherwise.

[32:47] I think I had a question about what otherwise.

[32:54] Financial or otherwise.

[32:56] So it's financial or personal or financial would be, would be the spelled out from the state law, but

[33:04] any interest at all.

[33:11] So Council members shall not permit any interest, personal, familial, any sort of interest whatsoever, to conflict with the proper discharge of duties in the public interest.

[33:22] So anything that would be your personal preference, anything?

[33:26] Anything?

[33:27] Anything?

[33:30] If there's a conflict of interest for instance, I mean, giving something, yes, will.

[33:36] That's not this section.

[33:37] That's not this section, but that could be, that could be, it's a section certainly that

[33:44] addressed in here and it could be a financial benefit that you've received so it would fit this,

[33:49] either way it fits this description, right?

[33:52] Right, a gift could be financial, it could be a kind,

[33:56] right.

[33:57] But our same manager referenced that on the earth,

[34:00] we treat about, there's something about logo,

[34:04] has a different city or point system, has no interest value.

[34:10] So I'll tell you what, what I'm hearing is there's some,

[34:14] we're going to send this back to committee, right, to review.

[34:16] So why don't we, so I'm circling interest, right?

[34:19] Or is there something for them to maybe see if this is what this, if it needs further

[34:24] explanation?

[34:25] Yes, I mean, just like when we went to TMAO, I mean, there's all the vendors out there

[34:29] giving out pens that doesn't have their name on this.

[34:33] Well, that's a gift issue.

[34:35] This is just conflicting with your proper discharge of your duties.

[34:38] So, you shouldn't vote on something if you have an interest that creates some sort

[34:43] of, that creates it so that you're not acting in the best interest of the public.

[34:47] That's what this sentence is about.

[34:50] Is that what it means?

[34:51] There's a house next door to yours and we're voting on the house next door.

[34:56] And you have an interest on what they do next door because you live there.

[35:00] You may not have a financial interest, but you have a personal interest.

[35:04] You have to do what's right for the city, not what's right for you.

[35:08] That's what it's saying. Do what's right for the city, not what's right for you.

[35:11] That's otherwise. It's not financial. It's otherwise.

[35:14] So that's what it means.

[35:15] But in most cases, isn't it? I mean, you already mentioned familial and I think there's already some language that talks about the different levels of

[35:24] You thank you

[35:25] I didn't know if we could if that could be otherwise could be

[35:32] More better clarified. I just think I don't think you could write everything in here

[35:36] There there's got to be a degree of common sense that if you're putting yourself above the public interest and you're in a role of voting

[35:43] It's inappropriate.

[35:45] Well, part of the conundrum now is that there's been a request to add penalty to this.

[35:57] And so now, the language becomes infinitely more...

[36:03] I think there's always been penalty.

[36:04] Yeah.

[36:05] It's theoretically.

[36:06] There's always been because it's always been one of your rules because 2.04, because this

[36:11] is adopted by an ordinance, 2.04 has always applied. We're just adding it in, the board

[36:17] of the committee is adding it in, so that there's no, I guess, as we say in my house,

[36:21] it has on that page. So, anybody say that besides me? I don't know. And it's a German thing.

[36:27] There's also a bit of time for folks to just review the City Charter.

[36:30] Right. Because 2.04 said if you violate any, must miscontact means violating any law and

[36:36] and an ordinance is a law.

[36:38] So, this just makes sense.

[36:42] Well, I'll tell you what, I want to,

[36:43] we got to move on.

[36:45] So, we're going to send this back regardless.

[36:47] I would, on this page, we're going to ask them

[36:49] to the committee to look at this

[36:51] and see if this needs to be further expanded on,

[36:55] maybe modified.

[36:56] Purpose seems very long.

[36:57] Yeah.

[36:58] It's not like a strategic goal.

[37:00] I think, you know, so-

[37:01] Just going to be complicated on that

[37:02] because you have to thank through a million scenarios

[37:04] that we can't put into this.

[37:05] My kid goes to that daycare,

[37:07] So I have an interest in it, not a financial interest.

[37:09] But we're going to send this back to committee and they may strike some purpose there in short

[37:13] and a little bit more to the right, it was more than double, it was only about 5.1 people.

[37:20] All right, so section 3.3, card that we want to adopt and fully reviewed.

[37:26] I'd like to see that, I mean, certainly we want to avoid electioneering, specifically electioneering.

[37:32] Now, to promote, you know, we attended a ribbon cutting today, but based on this, I'm

[37:41] not sure I could even mention who the ribbon cutting was, because would that be a promotion?

[37:49] I mean, do I need to turn my label away from the camera?

[37:52] These are all fair points.

[37:54] So we ought to, we ought to send this back and determine whether this needs to be stripped

[37:58] Again, modified, does the committee, again it's you three, you guys are the committee that

[38:04] are going to go back, do you feel like you have a grasp of some of these concerns that

[38:08] are being raised?

[38:09] Yes, thank you, ma'am.

[38:10] Number three dot four, which is social media side of this, I'm, I'm passionately opposed to

[38:22] this, because it says we cannot discuss social issues.

[38:28] In my interpretation, council members have a duty as the representative of Carroll's

[38:35] residents to share information, such as what's happening at the old Hallebert location.

[38:41] That's certainly a question that comes up on social media when we're going to get our

[38:46] roads allied or sidewalks fixed.

[38:48] You know, maybe we want to tout the new mobile blocking trailer and explain why we're having to buy that new pool vehicle.

[39:00] All these kinds of things.

[39:02] Social media also is probably the number one way that residents choose to interact with us.

[39:09] They're representatives.

[39:11] And that, you know, by...

[39:13] Well, I just want to remind you this is already your policy.

[39:16] What is stated here is already your policy.

[39:18] That is not in that this is a new section.

[39:20] But it's party in your social media policy that council has adopted not by ordinance,

[39:24] but it is already this is word for word from what your social media policy is just encompasses it.

[39:31] So when I'm looking at this 3.4 discussing city issues, well, even if it's in the policy,

[39:42] And

[39:45] there's one thing to not discuss what's in closed session, or agenda, or agenda,

[39:51] or agenda.

[39:52] But I think when you start, because we all have a right to talk about things that we want

[39:59] to talk about as a citizen, but I do know that, you know, for city agenda items, this should

[40:06] not be discussed.

[40:07] And so, I think.

[40:09] There's a forum issue there, definitely, and that's what the social media policy was designed

[40:13] to prevent is when you discuss something that's related to city business, and that could come before you,

[40:20] you potentially have created an open meetings act violation.

[40:23] That's the sole basis of the social media policy that's been in place since probably 2016.

[40:29] So, city issue versus an agenda item that's being considered by council, to me, those are two different things.

[40:37] There are two different things.

[40:38] So like how I'm going to slide, I'm sorry, I'm going to make a big issue.

[40:41] But anything can be an issue.

[40:43] It's a definition of an issue.

[40:45] Again, that's exactly right.

[40:48] If you have three people, it's kind of a daisy chain type of thing, right?

[40:52] That's, I think, worried.

[40:54] Yeah.

[40:54] And what I'm saying is, so if you reference the Haliburton property,

[40:57] that's not the city property, they have permits issued by the city,

[41:01] but there's no in the line.

[41:02] I mean, unless, I don't remember an economic development,

[41:05] so it's not a city issue.

[41:07] It's an issue in the city.

[41:09] Like that, 25,000 postcards mail out, there was a lot of confusion and I would have liked

[41:16] to be able to share something to help people understand it, but there was nothing to share.

[41:22] This needs to be, I mean, going through so many of these edits, there's so much of it

[41:28] that appears to be addressed to remove the potential, right, the perception.

[41:35] And if you were going to try and do that across the board to, you know, and call the Open

[41:44] Meetings Act as justification, then we would never, you know, at no point would more

[41:49] than one council member ever be at an event because there's always a potential.

[41:55] And so I think at some point that, you know, if you want to say, you know, you know, active

[42:05] and there's still a decision to be made, you know.

[42:08] I also think part of this came out of the mayor speaks

[42:13] for the city and then staff markets for the city.

[42:19] So we frame things in a way to create a consistent, unified

[42:24] brand and that kind of thing.

[42:26] So if each individual council member takes their take

[42:29] on whatever it might be in the city,

[42:31] while it may not be on the agenda this week,

[42:35] I mean that's where the element comes up that's your forum it may not be in a meeting with a hundred people. It's online with two thousand people.

[42:46] Okay so I'm going to I'm taking a few notes for the committee because like what I heard are things around open meetings act right.

[42:53] I heard around speaking for the city right when that's not our that's not a person's role necessarily right.

[42:58] It really hasn't been a problem.

[43:01] I mean, we haven't had somebody come out saying, no, you're representing yourself as the city versus, you know, somebody expressing their personal opinion or thoughts on something.

[43:13] Well, I'm not sure that it hasn't happened, but regardless, that again, if we, the committee's hearing your input directly, making their notes.

[43:25] I have my own issues with 3.3 and 3.4 as well, so I think it's important that we, if there are other items beyond open meetings acts,

[43:33] being for the city, agenda items, we want to make sure that we have a level of transparency with our citizens, right, that we can communicate.

[43:41] They like that engagement. I think that we want to make sure whatever lands here is, is that we don't preclude a council members engaging, being engaged in their community.

[43:52] I think the only thing that should be here is what the state law requires, and if that's already state law then it doesn't need to be in here.

[44:05] So that's for consideration, is it redundant to state law?

[44:09] I think that's a fair point.

[44:11] Members

[44:14] may not be aware of state law.

[44:16] Happy to provide that.

[44:18] But ignorance is, ignorance is no excuse, right?

[44:21] So I think part of the part of the requirement is going

[44:28] towards the enforcement side has to do with intention now.

[44:33] Yeah.

[44:34] Okay.

[44:35] Of course.

[44:36] I'm going to use that.

[44:37] It's not.

[44:38] I don't think so.

[44:39] I don't think so.

[44:39] Okay.

[44:40] Under work sessions, I always try to not surprise that, but this is

[44:47] We're not there yet.

[44:51] I'm on 5.1 to you. Page 6 14 is out after her before.

[45:00] We've got the heads. Yeah, we're at 5.30 now. I want to go ahead and start with 4.6, but we can go back to that. That's fine. 5.30, Nancy. I find work sessions usually are just a posting with no information. That's where it comes for me to try to send questions before we end, because oftentimes we have no information. I try to never surprise that, but I don't use a question. That's your first question.

[45:28] That's right, because it's the same, so I would say that.

[45:31] It should be regarding agend items on the work session.

[45:35] So this particular council members are encouraged to send questions to staff about agenda items, right?

[45:42] Normal, normal session agend items prior to work session.

[45:47] I would take work session.

[45:49] Well, the work session is where those questions might be addressed.

[45:58] So you might have had a question on item number 29, you're encouraged to send questions

[46:03] related to number 29 so that we can then part of the work session so it can be addressed

[46:07] in work session.

[46:09] I just would say prior to the council meeting.

[46:13] You guys got it.

[46:14] Richard you had one on four, four, four, four, four, six, the mayor will coordinate with

[46:20] municipal judge is wearing all newly elected Councillors, I would like to have something

[46:27] that says, you know, the council members can coordinate and provide their, provide their

[46:34] personnel for their sworn in, if possible.

[46:38] This was, it wasn't considered by the, it wasn't considered at all, so maybe when we have

[46:44] the meeting, you can bring that up.

[46:45] I just want to talk about that there, because I want to, yeah, so you don't necessarily, if

[46:49] If you would rather have somebody else who's legally able to

[46:55] officiate that you could be sworn by somebody else.

[46:58] Got it.

[46:59] All right.

[46:59] We'll add that to your longer list.

[47:02] We're in one real quick, three out of one.

[47:06] It has to do with received detail for work session discussion ahead of meeting.

[47:10] I'd like to see if we can specify further in advance.

[47:15] Because right now we're not getting those

[47:20] things.

[47:21] stuff like this and this was a lot to digest and relatively

[47:25] sure. And I'm sorry that I didn't send this out last week.

[47:27] I was at a seminar. Oh, no, no, that's okay, but they're going back to

[47:31] what Debbie and Mayor Prokham are saying in our work sessions,

[47:37] specifically, we just we get no detail. We get typically a memo

[47:40] on work session items on work sessions. Yeah. So and that's and again,

[47:44] keep in mind that is the first briefing with no vote or

[47:47] I understand that, but a lot of times, like today, we have a work session item and then we have a vote.

[47:56] That does occur, but generally speaking, work sessions are your very first briefing.

[48:04] And if there's not an agenda item, you know, to be, if there's not a decision to be made that same day, that's absolutely different, different manner.

[48:12] Okay, so and again it currently says shall be presented in advance of council policy

[48:18] You've got the committee can review whether it needs to accentuate in advance or not

[48:24] All right, moving on. I'm going to skip to

[48:29] Say 14 I think unless there's anything between I got a lot to in between

[48:35] Starting 4.1

[48:39] Okay, and again work those weren't intentional a

[48:42] We gave we gave areas to address at our annual meeting and that's what this way you look at that's what we're looking at I don't think we're looking to go through the entire ordinance for edits at this stage.

[48:55] Do you want to send me a list of the ones that you wanted to do?

[48:59] I'm happy to send all my thoughts here.

[49:02] You can you can of course do that and I will be I will relay them because of course I can't give them to them because that makes you part of the quorum.

[49:09] So send them to me and then if they want to take them up that's their decision.

[49:14] Okay, so otherwise we're going to, I'm going to go through the items that were modified to see if there's further discussion.

[49:23] 5.18, not a compliance.

[49:26] I think we heard a lot on this.

[49:27] There's, it is intentional.

[49:29] It is currently, it might be a little bit more explicitly stated here.

[49:33] Is that 1-8, page 14?

[49:37] So my problem with 5.18 is it refers to the charter section 2.04 but in my mind it is

[49:49] expanding because if I'm not mistaken the whole term official misconduct was first added

[49:57] to the to the charter and last year or was that one there before okay so there

[50:07] are several

[50:13] definitions of official misconduct and I don't know that this

[50:16] particularly it seems like we're adding by staying all of this you know a

[50:23] noncompliance with some you know some of the stuff that's discussed here

[50:27] qualifies as, uh, Mr. official, Ms. Khan.

[50:31] No, I'm not asking questions early enough.

[50:34] Okay.

[50:36] Yeah.

[50:36] Exactly.

[50:36] I mean, the policy, so if you decide you don't want it to be in here and not adopted by ordinance,

[50:41] then you don't make it part of your policy.

[50:43] Well, so I pulled a couple definitions of the way out of Web of what constitutes official,

[50:49] misconduct.

[50:50] This one's from the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, says, means no offense that it's intentional or knowing violation of the law committed by a public servant while acting in an official capacity as a public servant.

[51:04] Does that match with what the charter says?

[51:07] Because it's what the charter says.

[51:27] So, by law, it would mean an ordinance that y'all adopt, so you would need to change the charter if you want to change the definition of an ordinance.

[51:34] But, again, I'll list another example of the official misconduct.

[51:42] This is by the Department of Justice.

[51:44] Misconduct encompasses five principles fraud in office,

[51:48] willful neglect of duty, abuse of official power,

[51:51] excess of official authority, and oppression,

[51:55] where the unauthorized intentional inflection of injury upon a person.

[51:59] And then another is how official misconduct defined with knowledge or intent seek to obtain

[52:08] benefit from or harm another by engaging in contact that misuses their official power,

[52:12] performing an act that is outside of their official role, refusing to carry out a function

[52:16] that they're required by law to do, by laying a law relating to their role receiving a legal

[52:20] benefit such as using insider knowledge or to gain.

[52:23] So, where I'm going with that is that these are all things that we can pretty much find as,

[52:33] you know, probably elsewhere in the criminal code.

[52:37] Well, but it's what your charter is. It's what controls this.

[52:40] So even if you don't have this language in here.

[52:44] Yeah.

[52:44] It's still, you're still bound by the charter.

[52:47] So here's my suggestion, guys. We're going to send this back to committee.

[52:50] I think we've got lots of legal verbiages to what could be construed as official misconduct.

[52:58] We've got our city attorney basically saying it is as defined in the charter.

[53:02] I think that the committee should be able to come back and determine whether putting the

[53:08] term official misconduct in this policy is even required or whether it's simply just indicating

[53:14] that this policy is intending to guide for our governance consistent with the charter.

[53:22] Well, and I think what you guys need to consider as a body is if you just want this

[53:26] to be your guidelines then it need not be in ordinance and that's okay. That's a choice you'll

[53:30] have to make. You all need to make that choice because once you make it a law it reverts back

[53:36] to the charter period whether it's in here or not. You can repeal your governance policy and not

[53:43] have one, and you can strike through everything in here that you don't want to abide by, because

[53:47] it's your cell police. So strike the stuff that you're saying, hey, this thing in here

[53:55] is not official misconduct, but we'll then strike it. Don't put it in here, because you're

[54:00] bound by it now. You were and you are. So that's a truth. You need to cut the things from this

[54:07] document. You don't want to be bound by.

[54:09] But there's also a discussion that says 5.18 does not exist in the in the in the governance policy, right as it's written, right doesn't mean that it doesn't apply, right, right?

[54:20] So committee should consider whether we need to explicitly state it, it's an ordinance in ordinance, right?

[54:27] And then you go back to the charter and interpret. So I would I would I think we said enough there. I would suggest we move on.

[54:33] Well, I think when you're, you know, if you're going to, as you're considering that, I mean, in fact,

[54:39] if you may have brought 10 clients, you know, point, you know, is it what's striking you're out? Right?

[54:45] Because then that could be easily be abused, and you know, that's just, I think there's too much room for abuse

[54:56] use in there to add something like this that has not been in there before versus just relying

[55:03] on what's our eggs and what's our out there be it in the charter and stay law.

[55:09] So we think we're all in agreement that the committee will examine whether it even needs

[55:13] to be in there.

[55:14] Eight dot one.

[55:16] See the council's conducting assaults in accordance with the charter requirements in this

[55:20] And this policy is

[55:24] there.

[55:27] I mean, again, why is that, that's a redundant, right?

[55:31] Chuck it himself, of course, with the charter requirements.

[55:36] Relating to the relationship of staff by, like, not directing staff or, you know, anything

[55:42] else.

[55:43] Everything in the charter that applies to the City Council.

[55:46] Yeah.

[55:46] So that's already in the charter.

[55:47] Again, I would wonder why.

[55:49] Committee wanted.

[55:50] I just want to see it twice.

[55:55] 8.2.

[55:57] This goes back to my comment about trying to address all potential and this is basically

[56:05] stating that council members may not respond at all to resident concerns.

[56:10] So we get an email, you know, hey, there's a, you know, the code enforcement is trying

[56:17] and do something, and maybe we want to go over there and take a look.

[56:23] We can't do that according to this.

[56:25] And that's been later policy since 2016.

[56:30] Council members may refer to this, but may not use their position and intervene or respond.

[56:36] That's assuming that that's new.

[56:38] Well, yellow part is new, but it should, shall be forwarded to the city manager for appropriate staff action on a timely response.

[56:44] And we, you know, and I do that, but I also will, you know, request additional information

[56:52] such as, you know, I'll request back, hey, can you give me your phone number address

[56:56] so that I can provide that to, and then, you know, the timely response can be made.

[57:01] I think one of the things that this does, and there are other spaces in this, and I kind

[57:07] of question where some of the, some of the edits came from, whether or not they were council

[57:12] or elsewhere.

[57:14] A lot of what I've seen here is creating a bigger gulf between staff.

[57:18] Sorry, I can't say no to people too.

[57:19] These were all, staff doesn't make the rules right.

[57:21] These were all from the committee.

[57:22] What I'm seeing here is this creates a bigger gulf between staff and council.

[57:27] And so we just got to keep moving, but I think your point is, this probably just should not,

[57:33] this addition doesn't belong in here.

[57:35] Is that?

[57:36] That might, that's my opinion.

[57:37] And I think that's fine for this.

[57:39] I think we want to work together.

[57:41] I don't disagree. I mean, ultimately, you can constrain this so far that you're going to be afraid to move as a council member, right?

[57:47] Like I got a phone call to face water was cut off. I didn't know where to tell them to call.

[57:52] I mean, it doesn't change the fact that Aaron, our city manager, delegates who we can have direct interface with this group.

[58:00] And that is the executive team right now. And that is it. So we should recognize and that is the rules that we should all be operating on.

[58:09] Committee can take all this discussion and decide whether this belongs or be edited.

[58:15] 8.3, the authority is granted to the body and not an individual member.

[58:20] I mean, in this one, in this one, it's the same kind of thing.

[58:23] If it's granted only to the body and not an individual council member, which is a way,

[58:28] I think this is interpreted, that creates more obstacles between council members and staff.

[58:33] So if, for example, if I have conserved that solid waste or a golf course operations as an individual council member,

[58:39] I cannot even bring that up so that you can bring it up, but you can't direct, you can't direct an investigation of it.

[58:48] You can bring it up and say, hey, I have a concern about this and I would say, hey, I'll look into that.

[58:53] But it says this, the city council may, the city council may inquire as a city manager about conduct.

[58:59] It says this authority is granted to the body and not to an individual member.

[59:03] This could easily be interpreted as only the council's body can come together and how

[59:09] will you do it?

[59:10] Come in and say, hey, what's going on in a solid way?

[59:12] So what's going on with the golf course or whatever the case may be?

[59:16] And so I think-

[59:19] I think the point of that line, I wasn't there for these discussions, it's just that you

[59:23] can't direct.

[59:24] Well, I mean, that's part of the charter, obviously no one council members is there.

[59:28] That's absolutely that inquire yeah this and it's it's inquiry to the city manager so I think

[59:36] Everyone understand kind of where the council members coming from sure and if I can if I can just share what we

[59:41] Spoken in the committee we we did discuss this and we left it there

[59:46] Again unanimously because of the the majority and and I'm gonna defer to Meredith on on this because really my notes

[59:53] That the body we interpret it as the majority vote if anything right, you know

[59:58] And I think it was specific.

[1:00:00] So we're looking at in this issue was specific to any other jump into, but I think it was specifically relating to a formal investigation of an issue of actually going talking to staff and trying to find out information as an individual council member. Yeah, the issue is special. I mean, I'm a little confused here. From my understanding from our city manager says, if we direct something to be done in the investigation, you say you look into it. I mean,

[1:00:29] Are you saying you have a discretion to not do it or not do it or you have to do it?

[1:00:34] No, I don't think that was the intent in the language and maybe that's that's just a flaw in the drafting that does do

[1:00:40] The thought process was is that yes, you can inquire the city manager and so

[1:00:45] The y'all's reading is you can ask me any question

[1:00:48] What's it right now to read that but you can't say go conduct an investigation into Meredith

[1:00:53] Yes, but the body can the body if the body felt to have intended in direct city manager

[1:00:59] That's a body's decision not an individual understand, so it needs to be

[1:01:04] So what what I'm hearing is that individually do that. She has discretion

[1:01:08] You can look into it. She may not as a body if it's if it would direct the

[1:01:13] Investigation she must comply I probably wouldn't work here very long. I've been looking at the things

[1:01:20] All right. Let's go on. I think we've covered that one.

[1:01:23] I think that's pretty.

[1:01:25] I'm at the same event as another, you know, council member, or another, you know, a department head, right?

[1:01:32] A director, not one of the, not one of the assistants, he matters.

[1:01:34] Hey, how are things going on, you know, going over there and public works?

[1:01:37] Or, you know, that, is that an inquiry?

[1:01:42] You know, I think this needs to stipulate maybe investigations if that's, if that's what we're talking about.

[1:01:47] Okay, yeah, I think those are all fair comments.

[1:01:52] We can have the committee look at those.

[1:01:53] Number 10-5 is the paying for travel?

[1:01:55] I would just say this tends to go forward

[1:01:57] because the same thing is the yellow soon.

[1:02:02] So 10-5 is expenses, and I think this is basically

[1:02:05] the thing that I'm talking about, right?

[1:02:07] Most companies you have to get your expenses in

[1:02:09] within a period of time seem to reasonable.

[1:02:12] You guys reacted to 30 days.

[1:02:14] to be said twice, but this now says they won't be reimbursed because before they were

[1:02:23] being churned in late and still being reimbursed.

[1:02:29] Okay.

[1:02:29] Yes.

[1:02:29] So the addition is they're explicitly saying so maybe that he can talk about rewording it so

[1:02:37] that it's one sentence and it doesn't seem any issues that generally with with the timeline

[1:02:43] of 30 days.

[1:02:44] No.

[1:02:46] 45.

[1:02:47] 60, you guys.

[1:02:49] I mean, I would like to probably up to 60 with.

[1:02:54] You know, I mean, I know that you've talked about at the end of October or end of September,

[1:03:01] when they're trying to close out by doing all that good stuff.

[1:03:03] That creates a problem.

[1:03:05] And I know you are creating incentive to get timely adherence.

[1:03:09] Yeah, if you turn them in and we have an issue with the budget,

[1:03:11] We just want to turn them into finance, but at least we got them.

[1:03:14] I think it was the concern that was raised to me, but from a staff perspective, it was about things not getting paid.

[1:03:21] I'm turning it on to.

[1:03:23] So will the committee examine that the 30 days is still there, consensus?

[1:03:30] Members shall recognize a special role among the page 23, the last one, but 10.8 is new, is it not?

[1:03:38] It wasn't highlighted, but it was moved.

[1:03:44] Yeah, it used to have an intern travel,

[1:03:47] but it was under 10.2, which is why there's a lot of weird space there.

[1:03:57] The committee discussed this,

[1:04:00] excuse me, up out of town and in town,

[1:04:02] so that it wasn't as muddy as it used to be.

[1:04:06] Local functions are very interesting.

[1:04:10] So that part is, ten two does not include the reimbursement tax, does it?

[1:04:20] Does it?

[1:04:24] No, because the city will pay for those until there isn't a number.

[1:04:28] Because it's in town.

[1:04:30] Which is subject to ten five in terms of getting your file.

[1:04:33] Well, but what it says here, absence of special circumstances, such as emerged here, determined by the entire council.

[1:04:37] So the Member of Council, he does not attend an event after the city has paid for him or her showroom

[1:04:42] mercy to see the content.

[1:04:43] That should have been highlighted, I apologize.

[1:04:45] Thank you, thank you.

[1:04:46] It was my vote not highlighting it.

[1:04:47] I just missed it.

[1:04:49] Yeah, so that, yeah, that is the truth, that's right.

[1:04:54] Yeah, I mean, yeah.

[1:04:54] Let's say, I have some special conversation with emergency as a term of lantern.

[1:04:57] I mean, I think if there's, you know, something changes, something comes up and you want to say,

[1:05:05] I've got a seat at this thing, can I offer it and maybe another council member take it.

[1:05:15] And, you know, we do these things a lot of times that go to, maybe it's a metro press

[1:05:20] or NAACP or something like that, a good cause, any ways.

[1:05:25] I would, I know you brought this up during the retreat as a, as a, as a, as a topic.

[1:05:32] I think we're there trying to go, and you're making valid points there, at least that I can appreciate.

[1:05:41] I think what they're trying to avoid is there could be council members that say, I'm going to go, I'm going to go to everything I'm going to get.

[1:05:48] So the city pays for everything pretty soon and becomes a cost overrun from a department perspective, just and you're not giving you collectively.

[1:05:56] collectively, we individually are not giving respect to fiduciary responsibility.

[1:06:03] Has that occurred with any, you know, it has?

[1:06:07] Yes, I mean, it's substantive.

[1:06:09] This is why I was brought up.

[1:06:10] I ran out of money.

[1:06:12] This is why I was brought up.

[1:06:14] That was why the committee was asked to address it.

[1:06:18] You raised a good point.

[1:06:20] It's substitute attendees I think is certainly not

[1:06:23] the city got their money's worth.

[1:06:25] It's for the seats at something kind of thing. I think that people were concerned about. So why don't we why don't the let's have the committee kind of revisit that one and that I think that's all the edits we had.

[1:06:37] So what's that?

[1:06:38] I don't think it's 23.

[1:06:39] I don't know if that last one either.

[1:06:40] Oh, that's the last bullet.

[1:06:42] Yes, the last bullet item.

[1:06:46] So that.

[1:06:47] I mean, I was a little broke record, but creating more wedges between council and staff.

[1:06:55] I mean, this is basically cannot meet or call, right?

[1:07:01] Meet staff or speak with members of staff, not designated by the city manager.

[1:07:04] So again, I'm at a metrics chamber event and there's, you know,

[1:07:10] somebody else from in staff, can I speak to them?

[1:07:16] You can't speak city business with them.

[1:07:19] So for example, we had an event.

[1:07:21] You cannot?

[1:07:21] No. So we had an event where council members were present and

[1:07:25] that to the person organizing the event and gave them feedback on things at the event that if we

[1:07:31] just done this a little different if we just done that a little different this would have been a good

[1:07:34] idea that would have been a good idea and that was very upsetting for that employee so it's

[1:07:39] inappropriate that's directive and you guys can of course meet and greet staff hey guys how's it going

[1:07:48] how's your dog how's your kid what are you up to but when you say hey what all is going on in public

[1:07:53] works right now. What project are you working on? Are you going to finish that today? Are

[1:07:57] you going to finish it tomorrow? You're putting staff in it. You're the big boss. You may not

[1:08:02] feel like you are, but you are. And so that is why the charter is designed the way it is. I

[1:08:09] definitely want you guys. There's no wedge between Council and staff. Call me any time on any

[1:08:14] question. Call anyone at this table any time on any question. But when you go to somebody at an

[1:08:19] an event, and start asking them questions about the city.

[1:08:22] When was that policy implemented?

[1:08:24] How long is this going to take?

[1:08:25] Any of those things?

[1:08:26] That's not your role as a council member.

[1:08:29] I think there are opportunities to address it other than here.

[1:08:32] And just like you address it in a new council member training.

[1:08:36] New council member orientation.

[1:08:38] That's fine.

[1:08:38] You'll have to cover that, because I don't think anybody at this table wants any member of staff

[1:08:43] to feel like they have nine different bosses.

[1:08:46] And I think we want to clear on.

[1:08:48] I feel like that.

[1:08:50] We want you to fill that out.

[1:08:54] I think we can clarify directions versus...

[1:08:58] Oh my god.

[1:08:58] You know, again, say, how are things...

[1:09:00] How's the golf course doing?

[1:09:03] I see.

[1:09:04] And I will clarify that this is what the charter says.

[1:09:07] Is there supposed to be a wedge between counseling and staff?

[1:09:10] There's supposed to be.

[1:09:11] Because your interface with the staff is supposed to be with Aaron.

[1:09:14] I do.

[1:09:15] I think that's pretty much it.

[1:09:17] That's absolutely the way it's supposed to be set up in a city manager form of government.

[1:09:23] It seems to me that there are the issues, the majority of the issues are being taken aren't

[1:09:28] necessarily with the ordinance but actually with the charter.

[1:09:31] And I think if there's a review that needs to be made with the charter and how the charter

[1:09:34] is awarded and how we're referring to it, I think that seems like a very different issue

[1:09:40] than what we're speaking of now.

[1:09:42] My only comment to the committee is that, and this is my original comment, I'm sorry,

[1:09:46] or if we're iterating again, but if there are places

[1:09:49] either within the charter or in Texas law,

[1:09:52] that we're referring to specifically in this ordinance

[1:09:54] to reinforce that as a body to make sure

[1:09:57] that we are following we were reminding ourselves

[1:10:00] of these laws, then that should be stipulated

[1:10:02] and pointed out because it's not really a,

[1:10:05] I don't really see that as up for debate.

[1:10:08] That's right.

[1:10:08] Unless we want to actually debate what's in the charter

[1:10:11] or we want to take issue with actually what's

[1:10:13] in the existing laws.

[1:10:15] us. And so so your point is just to to finalize if we could be able to

[1:10:20] play those out or highlight those. I think that would be a big help that way.

[1:10:25] When we go through them, we know what we're talking about. Are we talking about

[1:10:28] the ordinance that we're anything additional in the ordinance that we're

[1:10:31] actually discussing or anything that goes beyond above and beyond what actually

[1:10:35] the law or the charter states or are we just following what the with the law

[1:10:41] on in the charter actually states.

[1:10:42] I think that would be helpful.

[1:10:44] I feel like that's a matter of fact.

[1:10:46] And we've got some else.

[1:10:47] It's hard for all of the city managers responsible

[1:10:49] if we're all giving multiple directions.

[1:10:53] She's the one directing the staff

[1:10:55] and we're supposed to be directing her as a body.

[1:10:58] That's right.

[1:10:58] And I'm just suggesting that we should be directing

[1:11:00] in quite a country.

[1:11:03] Let me ask Mayor for a few places.

[1:11:04] Who brought this up as an edit?

[1:11:07] which I mean, it was a, it was your self or young because Richard wasn't present.

[1:11:13] Yeah, I think from the adders that were spoken at the summer retreat, these are discussions

[1:11:19] that melts were taken and then we just have that discussion here specifically if that

[1:11:24] makes sense.

[1:11:25] Councillor Poulter.

[1:11:26] At the, at the retreat, we talked about the role of council.

[1:11:29] That's probably where this comes from.

[1:11:32] So committee, you all heard a lot of comments here, hopefully took some notes.

[1:11:36] We will revisit this in the future, for now it stands bold.

[1:11:42] We have just under 10 minutes from a work session item.

[1:11:50] Any of these items?

[1:11:52] You should probably get the managed competition update in 10 minutes.

[1:11:54] You think so?

[1:11:55] 10-15?

[1:11:56] Yes, for sure.

[1:11:57] Crystal can do it in three.

[1:12:03] You're a fast walker.

[1:12:09] Good evening Council, Crystal Voice, Strategic Services Director.

[1:12:13] I'm going to take just a few minutes to review the results of the recent Nana's competition

[1:12:18] review of four divisions of public work, specifically asphalt, concrete contract administration

[1:12:25] and drainage divisions.

[1:12:29] This review produced some significant changes to the public work operation, changes that

[1:12:34] our necessary and exciting and really showcase the department's commitment to being market

[1:12:41] competitive.

[1:12:42] I'm not going to share that with you this evening.

[1:12:47] You've heard the managed competition interest so many times.

[1:12:50] You probably recite this slide, so I won't belabor it.

[1:12:52] Managed competition is the process in which we benchmark each city operation against comparison

[1:12:58] cities, but also the private sector to ensure market competitiveness.

[1:13:02] We do a deep dive into every department's performance metrics, as well as their

[1:13:06] standard operating procedures to ensure best practices.

[1:13:10] Manage competition has been in place for more than 20 years, and in that time we've used

[1:13:15] it to right size the operation, to reduce expenses, to streamline processes, leverage new

[1:13:21] and existing technologies, and we've saved the health and taxpayers more than $45 million.

[1:13:26] So

[1:13:29] the goal of a managed competition review is for the competing business unit to be declared

[1:13:34] substantially competitive.

[1:13:36] That means that their performance metrics are either comparable to or better than those

[1:13:42] of the comparison studies and any private sector equivalents.

[1:13:47] If they're uncompetitive, then the strategic services team works with the competing business

[1:13:52] unit to identify strategies to close that performance gap.

[1:13:57] And if we can't close that performance gap, that's when we have to wrestle with the idea that

[1:14:01] perhaps that particular business function is better left to the private sector and we need

[1:14:05] consider outsourcing. So we're going to review the results and the opportunities for improvement

[1:14:11] for each division, starting with asphalt. So this division provides several critical functions

[1:14:17] for the cities such as utility cuts, excavation and also pothole repair. But they also take emergency

[1:14:24] calls and that component right there gave this division the commanding competitive advantage.

[1:14:29] the to take a private entity and have them do all of our after hours on call

[1:14:36] work would cost an exorbitant amount money. And so this division was found to be

[1:14:40] substantially competitive, but they aren't without their opportunities for

[1:14:44] improvement. You see asphalt is a temporary repair of a pothole. Let's meant to be

[1:14:50] just a placeholder until the concrete division can come and replace the entire

[1:14:54] street panel due to a lack of capacity within the concrete division.

[1:15:00] Which we'll talk about in a second, as well as some communication difficulties between the two divisions. Street panel replacements weren't happening fast enough. And so the asphalt team was sometimes patching the same pothole to and sometimes even three times. So that was something that the asphalt team asked to address during this management competition review.

[1:15:20] Moving on to concrete, this division has certainly experienced some scope creep over the last couple of years. There is plenty of work to be done across our city and limited resources to do it.

[1:15:32] So out of necessity, the concrete division had shifted their primary focus away from

[1:15:36] street panel replacement and on to addressing some critical needs on major thoroughfares.

[1:15:42] So if you've driven down Josie over the last couple of months, you've seen our concrete

[1:15:45] crews hard at work.

[1:15:47] But the concrete division is simply not staffed or equipped to handle large-scale projects

[1:15:52] like Josie.

[1:15:53] And so their performance metrics suffered.

[1:15:56] And so when we took those metrics and benchmarked them against the parentors, they were found

[1:15:59] to be uncompetitive. There's good news here. This is one of those times when an uncompetitive

[1:16:05] division was able to address the performance gap and commit to a set of performance targets

[1:16:10] that will bring them back into competitiveness. We'll talk more about how they manage that

[1:16:14] in just a second.

[1:16:17] The very nature of the contract administration division, which is wholly based

[1:16:21] in private sector pricing, meant that these guys were easy to deem substantially competitive.

[1:16:26] but what we had to address here was human resources.

[1:16:30] At the beginning of the managed competition review,

[1:16:33] the contract administration division of public works

[1:16:35] had three full-time employees,

[1:16:37] a contract administrator and two public works inspectors,

[1:16:41] one of which is wholly dedicated

[1:16:42] to the I-35 expansion project for the foreseeable future.

[1:16:48] And as Council's aware, there have been a lot of dollars

[1:16:51] that have been allocated to infrastructure projects

[1:16:53] in this budget year.

[1:16:53] And those are new initiatives on top of the recurring infrastructure replacement work that

[1:17:00] Public Works already does every year.

[1:17:02] So if we're going to get it all done, we get it all done correctly, this division's going

[1:17:07] to need some help.

[1:17:10] And finally, we have Drainage, a division that was meant to address Drainage Channel Maintenance

[1:17:16] and Inspections, but has become your catch all division.

[1:17:20] This division has been covering whatever public works emergency happens to arise that day.

[1:17:26] Everything from standing water complaints to fish and muscle surveying,

[1:17:30] great cleaning, ditch digging, street sweeping, graffiti cleanup, mattress in the road.

[1:17:35] It all falls to them.

[1:17:38] So just the sheer amount of diverse work that this division handles and with a very small team,

[1:17:44] they were deemed substantially competitive.

[1:17:46] However, there's spread to thin for this model to be sustainable, especially considering

[1:17:52] that there have been some recent changes to federal and state regulations regarding

[1:17:57] drainage channel maintenance, that now this division no longer has the focus or the expertise

[1:18:02] to complete.

[1:18:06] So, you've got four divisions who are making it work, but they are not providing.

[1:18:11] And the sustainability of their operations are in question.

[1:18:14] So the Carrollton team does did what we do best.

[1:18:17] The division supervisors came to the table with some well research, well thought out innovative ideas.

[1:18:24] The strategic services team took those ideas and compared them to what other comparison cities in the area are doing.

[1:18:31] And what came out of that was a significant reort to the public works operation that addresses each opportunity for improvement that we just covered.

[1:18:40] Arguably, the biggest change is the evolution of the small contract administration division

[1:18:45] into a more substantial team.

[1:18:49] There is now a third public works manager, specifically dedicated to outside projects,

[1:18:54] and he has a team of five, including a contract administrator, a public works program coordinator

[1:19:00] and three full time inspectors.

[1:19:03] This team is going to oversee a whole host of programs, some of which they were already

[1:19:07] overseeing like screening walk contracts and the 90-10 sidewalk program, but they're

[1:19:11] also going to take on some new projects, including drainage repair and cleaning, and they

[1:19:16] also have the additional resources that they need to bid and monitor those large-scale

[1:19:20] street projects.

[1:19:23] So with drainage maintenance now under contract administration, that allows your drainage

[1:19:27] division to evolve into something new, a special operations division.

[1:19:32] That division will continue to focus on those day-to-day critical needs that arise.

[1:19:37] The concrete and asphalt crews will be merged into one single streets division, now that

[1:19:43] the crew that repairs potholes and the crew that does the street panel replacement report

[1:19:48] to the same supervisor, we can expect better project coordination and communication between

[1:19:53] these two key projects.

[1:19:56] The remaining crews that were left at that former asphalt division, those are the crews

[1:20:00] that handle utility cuts and excavation, they'll remain together as a utility replacement

[1:20:05] division. And finally, we've created a new compliance officer position, which reports directly

[1:20:12] to the public works director. This is a page that we stole out of the public safety

[1:20:16] playbook. It's a duplicate of a position that reports directs. The position will oversee

[1:20:21] ongoing reporting and compliance activities that are required by the federal government, the

[1:20:26] Texas and other regulatory bodies, and it will also oversee department safety and training initiatives.

[1:20:32] Council, if you remember some months ago, I brought forward the managed competition results of a couple other divisions of public works,

[1:20:39] and we talked about the need for an on-site CDL testing facility, this position will oversee that initiative.

[1:20:50] So that's a lot of moving parts, and you might be asking yourself, how much is this going to cost?

[1:20:55] And that's the good news within this story is that it's not going to cost anything.

[1:21:00] In fact, public works is getting back an awful lot.

[1:21:04] Thanks in large parts of that newly created contract administration division and their

[1:21:08] ability to take on more contracted work, the public works leadership team determined that

[1:21:13] there were a number of vacancies that they no longer need to fill.

[1:21:17] Now while several of those vacancies were repurposed into the new positions that we talked

[1:21:21] about, they've eliminated five vacant FTE positions and that gives us a recurring savings

[1:21:28] of $170,000 in personnel costs.

[1:21:33] Something else that this rework does is it creates a succession plan for that public

[1:21:36] works manager over outside contracts.

[1:21:39] At the beginning of this managed competition review, we didn't have that.

[1:21:43] We had a rock solid contract administrator, but there was a wealth of knowledge and expertise

[1:21:49] that was going to leave when that position inevitably turned over.

[1:21:54] But now we have an internal that's going to be actively learning from that person.

[1:21:59] So that's the end of my presentation, and I do want to emphasize one thing, nearly 100%

[1:22:05] of the outcomes of this managed competition review were brought forth by the public works

[1:22:10] division supervisors.

[1:22:12] They showed up to their managed competition review the way that the way that you need to

[1:22:18] to win. They were confident in their skills. They were committed to being the best. They

[1:22:22] were honest about where they struggled but they also came with well thought out ideas

[1:22:26] on how to make it work. So that's a real testament to them and their leadership and their

[1:22:31] commitment to the Carrollton difference as well as that of Jody's and his leadership team.

[1:22:37] So I'll stick around if you have any questions but there is one thing that I wanted to do.

[1:22:41] I want to introduce you to somebody in special.

[1:22:45] Council,

[1:22:49] it is my pleasure to introduce you to Kirk Iverson.

[1:22:52] He is your brand new public works manager over outside contracts.

[1:22:55] Kirk is new to the position but not new to Carrollton.

[1:22:59] He was our contract administrator for coming up 12 years in January.

[1:23:02] Coming up 12 years?

[1:23:02] Yeah.

[1:23:03] So he has a ton of great experience with the city, a ton of great experience with contracts,

[1:23:08] and I have a feeling he'll be a frequent face at council meetings in the future.

[1:23:11] I was like, like, Jody has anything to say about it, so just briefly great for the opportunity

[1:23:17] and right now you get to work, so thank you very much.

[1:23:20] Thank you very much.

[1:23:26] Does this help?

[1:23:27] I know hiring in public works was kind of hard.

[1:23:31] Does eliminating the five FFPs help that any year?

[1:23:34] Is it still hard?

[1:23:38] I don't have to defer.

[1:23:40] No, I actually get to do the hiring in public work.

[1:23:45] Jody, by any chance, public work director, it's still hard.

[1:23:50] It doesn't make it easier to hire for the open positions we have.

[1:23:53] It's just eliminated five positions that we hadn't filled in a while, so we still struggle.

[1:23:59] We've got really good for a while, but we're getting close to holidays, it's slow down.

[1:24:02] It's a hard physical job.

[1:24:04] There's not a lot of training for some of the jobs that they do, and we certainly won't just

[1:24:09] take anybody.

[1:24:10] So we're a bit picky too, and I will say that Jody goes above and beyond and filling

[1:24:16] those positions.

[1:24:16] I mean, he will individually look at each single one

[1:24:20] and come up with a strategy on how to fill it.

[1:24:22] So I appreciate that.

[1:24:24] Thank you.

[1:24:25] Well, yeah.

[1:24:26] Now, I was a little confused because I saw

[1:24:28] under their running fan and then under you.

[1:24:32] And I was also underutilized.

[1:24:34] Was that supposed to be for overutilized?

[1:24:39] I'm sorry.

[1:24:39] Help me find where your car is right now.

[1:24:41] It was running.

[1:24:42] It was on the right.

[1:24:43] Benchki going.

[1:24:44] So there was two thinnly deadings.

[1:24:46] It's smaller than it's a great two fence, so I mean, so that?

[1:24:49] Yeah, so when drainage was first formed, their primary job duties was just drainage maintenance

[1:24:57] and inspections, but over the years, they have taken on more and more work, depending

[1:25:02] on what, whatever the needs are at the city that day.

[1:25:06] There have been some additional regulations that have been added, that have required reporting

[1:25:10] and a certain level of expertise now, but now that this drainage division is doing so

[1:25:15] much work, the expertise that we may have had once upon a time no longer exists.

[1:25:21] And so by contracting out drainage, putting that under contract administration, having

[1:25:26] the compliance officer do the reporting and the federal regulations, then drainage

[1:25:32] can now be special operations.

[1:25:34] So they'll be able to handle those tasks, even with their small team, having taken out

[1:25:39] the drainage part.

[1:25:40] Got that.

[1:25:41] And that's one, but if you keep going, I think there was one where it said under utilized, keep going.

[1:25:47] It was a paragraph, I think, keep going.

[1:25:53] Maybe it's further further further further up. I'm trying to remember where that was.

[1:25:57] There it is. This division is under utilized and should grow as a facet of public work. So that's

[1:26:03] that's where you should have contract admin itself. And so by putting a drainage and

[1:26:09] The other department underneath there that now it's more fully.

[1:26:14] So we so we grew contract administration from a three person operation to now a six

[1:26:19] person operation.

[1:26:21] So the contract administration piece outsourcing more of that work that's the part that's

[1:26:27] underutilized.

[1:26:28] But now we've given them some additional resources to be able to take on more and manage more

[1:26:32] and make sure that things are appropriately done.

[1:26:35] Okay.

[1:26:35] I mean, I've talked about the asphalt and the concrete.

[1:26:39] I know what I went on a long walk, not too long ago,

[1:26:44] and used the app to report a number of things,

[1:26:46] not directing.

[1:26:47] Just use the report.

[1:26:49] You should always use that.

[1:26:49] Use the report.

[1:26:50] And it was not a couple of weeks.

[1:26:56] And sure enough, most of that stuff was all completely prepared

[1:27:00] and prepared with concrete.

[1:27:02] So grateful for that.

[1:27:06] On this, the only thing I have to say is some entities call this Lean Six Sigma.

[1:27:12] Some entities apply for Baldurge Awards.

[1:27:15] We skip all that fanciness and just do what's right.

[1:27:19] And at the end of the day, there is someone constantly analyzing all of our functions to make

[1:27:24] sure we are operating in the most efficient and cost effective way.

[1:27:28] And so this is just one example of it.

[1:27:30] We don't bring you every intricacy on managed competition, but these are the kinds of things

[1:27:34] that are going on in the background to make sure that we're providing the highest quality

[1:27:38] service at the lowest possible cost in all of our conditions.

[1:27:43] Check marks, a testament, so we appreciate all the work.

[1:27:46] Thank you.

[1:27:48] All right.

[1:27:49] Council, we will adjourn the work session for earlier as we go to regular meeting.

[1:27:56] He'll meet us out there at Porter Rattler.

[1:35:24] Welcome to the regular, regular meeting for the city of Carrollton Council on October 25th.

[1:35:32] We will start our meeting with, as we always do, with our invocation that will be led by Mayor Pro Tem

[1:35:37] Colossius and our pledged allegiance led by Deputy Mayor Pro Tem Pline. Please drive us.

[1:35:43] It's

[1:35:48] by our heads, Lord God, I pray for those who are hurting, I pray for the families, the family of police officer Nautam, the family of Philip Parker, pray that Jamaica is the strength to provide the support and comfort to them.

[1:36:09] As a community, help us to be there for the families for one another during this time of difficulty.

[1:36:18] I pray for healing, I pray for peace, that only comes from you, pray that you may wipe

[1:36:25] where your tears and heal our hearts.

[1:36:28] And I thank you, Lord, for every single man and woman that protect the city, that care

[1:36:34] for the city of Carrollton,

[1:36:37] give for our Carrollton Police Department, for everyone

[1:36:41] Father God, that sends in the gap.

[1:36:45] Thank you for the peace of the city of Carlton, because I know that you have the process of healing for us.

[1:36:52] In the images we prayed, amen.

[1:36:54] Amen.

[1:36:59] Unfortunately, this is not like the United States of America.

[1:37:04] And to the Republic, we're waiting to say, one nation, we're going to God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[1:37:16] Unfortunately, this is the Texas one state under God.

[1:37:21] Okay.

[1:37:27] We have a few proclamations I will start with presentations. I will ask that Mr. Andrew

[1:37:35] Gaiette please join me at the podium.

[1:37:58] All the red shirts, it's always good to see our

[1:38:01] friends from the historic downtown Carrollton. Many of you know where the heart of Carrollton

[1:38:08] is is in the downtown, historic downtown square. And these are the people that make all the

[1:38:15] magic happened down there.

[1:38:17] They've been through a lot over the years with expansion of 35,

[1:38:21] with lots of construction.

[1:38:23] They weather the storm.

[1:38:25] They're definitely resilient.

[1:38:27] So with that, I've got this proclamation, I'll read.

[1:38:31] Whereas the Historic Downtown Carrollton Association

[1:38:34] has been in existence for over 30 years.

[1:38:37] Its primary focus, when established, was to promote

[1:38:40] the downtown Carrollton area and enhance its beautification.

[1:38:44] And whereas during the pandemic, the Historic Downtown Carolton Association hosted a food

[1:38:51] drive that provided food to 400 families, as well as supported numerous local groups during

[1:38:58] their time of need.

[1:39:00] And whereas throughout the years, the association has supported the community of Carolton with

[1:39:05] fundraisers and donations to organizations that include veterans, local schools, soup

[1:39:13] kickchins, metro press services, and many others.

[1:39:17] And whereas the HDCA has always been about promoting the City of Carrollton through advertising and events,

[1:39:26] the HDCA has continually demonstrated that Carrollton is a great place to shop,

[1:39:32] dime, and live.

[1:39:34] The city is proud to have such a great relationship with our downtown businesses.

[1:39:38] Now, therefore, I steep out the mayor of the great city of Carrollton on this day here

[1:39:44] by sign and declare October 25th as historic downtown Carrollton's appreciation day.

[1:39:51] With all appreciation of all of Carrollton knowing that that is indeed where our heart

[1:39:55] is, thank you so much for all you do.

[1:40:14] Okay.

[1:40:17] Well, Mr. Mayor, City Council, members of the city on behalf of the HDCA and all these people

[1:40:24] and red shirts. We want to thank you for this recognition. It's an honor, and we truly appreciate it.

[1:40:30] Thank you very much.

[1:40:52] Okay,

[1:41:47] my next presentation is October is breast cancer awareness month and many of us know

[1:41:56] So many people in our lives who have been impacted by breast cancer.

[1:42:02] We are our former mayor, Falconer, and his wife, as a family, have battled breast cancer and beat it.

[1:42:12] So we have asked Susan Falconer to be here with us today, as a recent, having recently undergone surgery on that in the month of October,

[1:42:23] which is coincidentally breast cancer where this month.

[1:42:25] So we've asked the Susan G come in office to be here, apparently they were here, but they've left.

[1:42:32] I'm going to read this anyway, and then this is really in particular honor of Susan Belkner.

[1:42:40] So whereas, while considerable progress has been made in the fight against breast cancer,

[1:42:46] it touches the lives of men and women and families with every background and every community.

[1:42:51] And whereas breast cancer has the second highest mortality rate in women, it's the second

[1:42:57] most diagnosed cancer, and one in eight women will be diagnosed in their lifetime.

[1:43:04] And whereas October is breast cancer awareness month, which is an annual campaign to increase

[1:43:10] awareness about the disease, and whereas as a community support those courageously fighting

[1:43:17] breast cancer, honor their lives lost and celebrate the women who have overcome the sickness.

[1:43:24] And whereas by educating ourselves and supporting innovative research, we will improve the quality

[1:43:30] of life for our citizens affected by breast cancer and one day defeat the terrible disease.

[1:43:37] Now therefore, I see Bavic mayor of City of Carrollton, Texas, do hereby proclaim October

[1:43:41] over 20, 22 as breast cancer awareness month.

[1:43:45] So I'm by my name.

[1:43:47] So if I could, if you can stand, I would like to at least take a picture.

[1:44:16] Okay, and I have one more presentation.

[1:44:21] Ms. Chloe, Sir Worsky, if you will please join us.

[1:44:25] Did I say your name right?

[1:44:26] Sir Worsky?

[1:44:27] Sir Worsky?

[1:44:32] My name gets butchered as well.

[1:44:35] So Chloe, this is a great honor for Chloe.

[1:44:40] She was honored by the Texas Municipal Clerks Association banquet on Thursday, October 20th.

[1:44:46] And is the recipient of the statewide 2022 TMCA Emerging Leader Award.

[1:44:52] This award recognizes an individual who has demonstrated outstanding leadership skills.

[1:44:58] Submissions.

[1:45:00] These are judged on the overall contribution of the individual's leadership can be through service to the, to the nominee city citizens or to the municipal clerk profession. Through her hard work and dedication, Chloe quickly advanced in the city of Carrollton to become the deputy city secretary and served in that position for two years while earning her Texas registered municipal clerk designation through the Texas Municipal Clerk Association. While working on her certification, Chloe joined

[1:45:30] joined and has been active with the urban management assistance of North Texas, serving

[1:45:36] on the special events committee, as well as the North Texas Municipal Clerk's Association,

[1:45:41] serving as the 2022 membership chair.

[1:45:45] After attaining her state certification in January of 2022, Chloe was promoted to city

[1:45:51] secretary.

[1:45:52] Chloe is currently working towards a certified municipal clerk designation through the International

[1:46:00] as an active contributor to the City of Carrollton.

[1:46:03] Chloe has participated in numerous programs such as serving on the Employee Appreciation Committee, completing the Carrollton Citizens Fire Academy and completing the Carrollton Talent Exchange Program.

[1:46:15] Beyond these examples, Chloe's commitment to the City of Carrollton, she has been recognized for her positive presence,

[1:46:21] appropriations, approachability, and eagerness to contribute to the municipal clerk profession.

[1:46:27] Chloe distinguishes herself as an emerging leader by promoting and personally fulfilling TMCA's mission of providing professional development through training and professional interaction.

[1:46:39] The City of Carrollton is fortunate to have Chloe on the team and we look forward to seeing her continue to positively contribute to our community.

[1:46:51] She received this award over here.

[1:46:54] I want to just show it off.

[1:47:03] And this is simply a small token, of course,

[1:47:05] of we know what really what Chloe's all about.

[1:47:08] You know, her perseverance, her ability,

[1:47:11] tension to detail, and quite frankly,

[1:47:13] just her vigor to get her job done

[1:47:15] and keep us informed in terms of our responsibilities

[1:47:19] is above reproach.

[1:47:22] A lot of people don't understand a city secretary

[1:47:24] is not somebody that answers the phone.

[1:47:26] That is not what a city secretary is.

[1:47:27] is a city secretary, much like a corporate secretary,

[1:47:31] is established largely by charter and by state law.

[1:47:36] And it is all about keeping the city compliant

[1:47:40] with filings and regulations and so forth.

[1:47:43] So, Chloe, I am so proud of you.

[1:47:45] Thank you so much.

[1:48:17] Okay, we are now at the point of public comment.

[1:48:20] This is the opportunity for anyone in the audience

[1:48:22] to come forward and speak on an item

[1:48:25] And on one of our agenda items, outside of the public forum.

[1:48:30] So if you have questions or comments rather on any of our agenda items, I invite you to please approach the podium.

[1:48:36] I have no cards presented, but I invite you to step forward.

[1:48:43] Okay, seeing none, I will move council for a, I will ask for a motion, our consent to agenda items number 12 through 18.

[1:48:53] 19 has been pulled 20 through 34, and we are pulling number 28 for individual consideration.

[1:49:05] Mayor Pro Tempilaseus.

[1:49:08] Thank you, Mayor.

[1:49:09] I vote that we approve agenda items 12 through 18, 20 to 27, 29 to 34.

[1:49:21] Council Member Song.

[1:49:22] Thank you, Mayor.

[1:49:23] Second, the motion.

[1:49:27] Okay, Council, we have a motion by Mayor Pro Tempilaseus and a second by Council Member Song.

[1:49:32] to approve a consensus into items number 12 through 18, 2334 polling number 28 for

[1:49:38] individual consideration. Any discussion on the motion?

[1:49:44] Seeing none, I will call for

[1:49:46] a vote,

[1:49:57] and that motion passes unanimously. All right, I will move on to item number 28

[1:50:03] for individual consideration.

[1:50:07] There with me. Council, any discussion on item number 28?

[1:50:13] I

[1:50:16] will call for a, I've got one here, Council Member Polter.

[1:50:21] Thank you, Mayor.

[1:50:24] I would like Council to reconsider,

[1:50:30] I'm looking at the right, the right number here, yeah.

[1:50:36] I'd like Council to reconsider the appointment of Liz Castaneda to the Museum and Historic

[1:50:46] the Oracle Advisory Committee.

[1:50:48] This is a resident that has a history of spurulous comments and spreading really

[1:51:00] vicious and defamatory falsehoods about some of the members up here on the days,

[1:51:10] as well as one of our House District representatives.

[1:51:15] This is a resident that has managed a Facebook page in the past that appears to have intentionally been named the Carleton Connection, which was the same name as our newsletter.

[1:51:31] And also, she routinely used the Carrollton logo or logos without the city's approval.

[1:51:41] Apparently, in an attempt to portray the content there as official content.

[1:51:49] And so therefore, kind of misrepresenting the role as official or the content as official city content.

[1:51:59] I think appointing this person or reappointing this person to this Board of Commission puts the city in an awkward and precarious position.

[1:52:15] I think given the person we're talking about their criminal background, harassment,

[1:52:26] arrest for harassment.

[1:52:27] And that was just within the last couple of years, I think it is a risk to our brand and our reputation that we should not endorse.

[1:52:42] And so I would like to see us, we appoint the alternate in her place.

[1:52:51] Councillor Members. Thank you, Mayor. I want to ask for clarification and a comment to

[1:53:02] our city council regarding a, we had a boat and this was approved so we have here so

[1:53:13] we continue conversation with regards to this. Yeah, let me clarify. We had executive session

[1:53:22] consentes, as to the appointees that are in the resolutions as slated in numbers 26 through 34.

[1:53:36] They

[1:53:39] are being presented as consensus was obtained.

[1:53:43] The vote has to have current opening session out here, so we have not voted yet.

[1:53:48] This is the vote, so I'm entertaining a motion to approve the item.

[1:53:52] At the point, what comes to member Adam Polter is making is that about the very disturbing

[1:54:04] little bit for me about criminal increments of what we were saying.

[1:54:12] Everyone has, we have a constitutional rights, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

[1:54:20] To make an accusation here in front of my chamber is bothersome.

[1:54:26] Right now, therefore, I want to make a motion to approve this agenda, 28.

[1:54:37] Okay, I have a motion by Council Member Sang to approve item number 28.

[1:54:41] Council Member Fleming, we have a motion on the floor.

[1:54:49] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

[1:54:50] I'd like to concur with what.

[1:54:52] I'm sorry, we have a motion on the floor.

[1:54:53] I need a second.

[1:54:54] Okay.

[1:54:57] And you can continue to speak if you'd like to second. If you choose not to second it, then we'll come back to it quick.

[1:55:02] Okay.

[1:55:04] Council Member Pendleton.

[1:55:06] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would second Councilman Young's song's proposal.

[1:55:11] Okay. Council, we have a motion by Council Member Song and a second by Council Member Pendleton.

[1:55:18] Any discussion on the motion?

[1:55:21] I'll just plug in, I'll cue you and just

[1:55:28] hit the, let's

[1:55:32] take knowledge and share it.

[1:55:33] I know.

[1:55:34] Yes, I'd like to concur with what Mr. Councilmember Adam Polter has said, you know, in 2018,

[1:55:42] I first ran for Carrollton City Council, place three, I ran against Pat Cochran, and during

[1:55:47] the time period, even after polls, I've witnessed the viciousness that is handed out.

[1:55:56] by Leah's cast and yet at the polls.

[1:55:59] The things that she said only to other voters of which they came and told me.

[1:56:05] But also things that she told to my church members that were out helping me at the polls.

[1:56:11] And I wondered why she, I didn't know her.

[1:56:15] She, I knew of her, but I didn't know her personally.

[1:56:18] And so I didn't know why those personal tax would be coming towards me.

[1:56:24] other than the fact that I was running against Pat Cochran, who she was going for.

[1:56:30] So, I understand that piece, and I've witnessed her viciousness towards other folks that are running for office, state office,

[1:56:43] congression office, and so, and then this past recently, as you know, I ran for, recently ran for the City Council seat, and

[1:56:53] And then last January, I was told by current City Council member, Ms. Nasty Klein, that Ms.

[1:57:03] Liz Castanierta said that I called her the CUNT word.

[1:57:07] I'm going to caution the council from making inflammatory remarks.

[1:57:15] But that's not inflammatory, that's not the cautioning council in terms of the, I appreciate the caution, sir.

[1:57:22] But this is well on record.

[1:57:25] And then Nancy Klein asked me this questions about that.

[1:57:28] And I was quite taken aback, because number one, that is not the words that I use in my vocabulary.

[1:57:35] And I just don't spend that amount of time.

[1:57:39] And so not only was that, that was also told to my opponent who was running in this election, Ms.

[1:57:45] Nikki Ellis, of which she confirmed to me that that was told.

[1:57:50] And so, you know, why would you say something like that, being vicious, you know, we're just running for, we're just running to serve the community.

[1:58:01] I've been serving this community for 20, 25 years.

[1:58:03] And so I didn't just get here, and those attacks were unwarranted, unwarranted, and just uncalled for, and unprofessional, and it's real unprofessional.

[1:58:15] And when you see that same person that's serving on the board and having all these tight connections,

[1:58:21] there's still potential legalities in our situation.

[1:58:26] So I think the city must be careful with their association with potential bad actors.

[1:58:35] That's, you know, I brought this to you today in public so you guys will be aware of that.

[1:58:41] So there's nothing new if you see anything else in the future.

[1:58:45] regard in the same situation. Thank you, Mayor. That is my time.

[1:58:50] Thank you. All right. I'm going to, we've heard from Robert

[1:58:54] Giroldo, I think we've heard from the speakers. I'm going to call the vote.

[1:59:08] Okay. The motion passes with Council Member Polter,

[1:59:12] and Fleming voting no. All right. With that, Council, we, that concludes our consent agenda

[1:59:21] into items and our actions.

[1:59:23] At this stage, we move on to our public forum.

[1:59:27] This is the opportunity for any citizen or visitor to come before Council and

[1:59:36] speak on any topic that they choose.

[1:59:39] My first card is from James Lockridge, who wishes to speak on code issues.

[1:59:47] Mr. Lockridge.

[1:59:49] Please approach the podium and state your name.

[1:59:52] Reminder to address your comments to the chair.

[1:59:55] You will have two minutes.

[2:00:05] Let me just second get set up, please.

[2:00:19] So, guys, I've come to y'all about this ag situation and it's very disturbing. What happened to me this week, last week, is so disturbing. On my phone, I don't know if y'all can see it. This is not one text message. This is from state reps. And I'll show you, if you can read, I will.

[2:00:51] State representatives have sent me text messages.

[2:00:55] saying, this is horrible, so ridiculous, wow, what a overreach. One to go as far as to

[2:01:07] say, why is the city harassing you this much? Okay. Now guys, you ask me why I'm here.

[2:01:16] This was sent to me by my client, says James, this was sent to us by the city.

[2:01:24] Are we

[2:01:25] Next one came to me, says James, this letter, this trailer has to be moved off the property immediately.

[2:01:32] Please below, please see below attached an email, an email from the City Code Compliance Officer,

[2:01:41] Brian Passwater, where he literally, literally calls me a liar in the email.

[2:01:48] calls me a liar, tells me that he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am

[2:01:57] misleading information, that I am incorrect, and that I know it. That is harassment,

[2:02:06] that is slander on me, my company. I get a citation. Three of them, one for

[2:02:16] advertisement, illegal advertisement on a trailer that has been set in that field since 2012.

[2:02:24] Illegal advertisement.

[2:02:25] It says in your code right here, vehicles may not be parked on an unapproved surface.

[2:02:31] I got a ticket for that, but it's not anything but a cow pasture, ridiculous statement,

[2:02:37] ridiculous, that I even got the ticket.

[2:02:40] The next one says, Mr. Locker, I'm going to give you 30 more seconds so you can wrap up your comments.

[2:02:44] So the next one says, no, no, no city code, no sign suspended up from buildings,

[2:02:51] poles, sidewalks, vehicles.

[2:02:53] I was instructed that if I parked my vehicle on the side of a field that I'm working

[2:02:59] in, it's illegal in Carrollton, that I will get a citation if code compliance sees it,

[2:03:05] because it's illegal advertisement.

[2:03:07] Guys, I'm coming with the vengeance.

[2:03:10] You can't take our property rights away from us, please, Mr.

[2:03:14] I'm asking you, hold these code compliance officers that are rogue and slandering me and harassing me accountable.

[2:03:21] I'm asking every city council member, please guys, I'm being nice right now, but it can get dirty, it can get ugly, real quick.

[2:03:29] Thank you.

[2:03:30] Thank you very much.

[2:03:32] All right, I have no more cards, but I will offer up the podium to anyone who would like to come forth and address the council.

[2:03:39] Seeing

[2:03:42] none, we will adjourn our meeting here at 7.42 p.m.

[2:07:00] Next item on the work session agenda is the item number six, or I'm sorry, five.

[2:07:07] Opposed, a nine

[2:07:11] chapter, Texas Title IX chapter 97, regarding hotel code, the City of Carleton code of

[2:07:21] regarding short-term rentals.

[2:07:25] Thank you, Dean Mary-Cowell, for the high

[2:07:27] for the Minimal Services Director.

[2:07:29] Tonight, our goal is just to have a brief overview

[2:07:32] of some proposed revisions to Chapter 97

[2:07:35] that votes health code.

[2:07:36] That would begin the regulations of short-term rentals.

[2:07:41] If I tell you a little bit.

[2:07:43] So just by talking about what are short-term rentals,

[2:07:46] where are they here in the city?

[2:07:48] And what are some of the challenges

[2:07:49] that they're causing some of their neighbors

[2:07:51] and other residents in these single-family neighborhoods?

[2:07:55] Next we'll discuss an overview and try to keep at high level for tonight.

[2:08:01] We found an opportunity to insert some language into chapter 97 that would begin those regulations.

[2:08:07] Again, just a brief overview on that and then we're

[2:08:13] right into it.

[2:08:14] So first, short term rental by definition and this isn't just our definition.

[2:08:18] This is pretty common throughout any city that's begun these ordinances.

[2:08:23] is that's going to be a residential premise

[2:08:25] or portion there of use for lodging for less than 30 days.

[2:08:29] And that less than 30 days is the real differentiator

[2:08:33] between the normal rental.

[2:08:34] So long in the 30 days, they follow our single family rental

[2:08:36] program, less than they would potentially

[2:08:38] follow this new program.

[2:08:41] Also, a key difference between two terms that essentially

[2:08:45] mean the same thing.

[2:08:46] If the property is not occupied by the property owner

[2:08:50] for our purposes that's going to be a short-term rental.

[2:08:54] If it is occupied by the property owner,

[2:08:57] we're considering that a bed and breakfast.

[2:08:58] And that's regardless of whether they actually

[2:09:00] serve that breakfast in the morning.

[2:09:02] It's just whether or not that property owner lives on site.

[2:09:06] But for all intensive purposes for the actual regulation

[2:09:10] that we're proposing, they will be treated exactly the same

[2:09:13] as more of a differentiator on our end.

[2:09:17] I would imagine most people in this room

[2:09:19] are familiar with short-term rentals.

[2:09:20] may have state-in-one themselves, but it's essentially a new hotel alternative that we're

[2:09:25] seeing takeoff within the last decade or so. We're often the not. It's going to be fully furnished,

[2:09:32] and in addition to that, it's going to be the entire home as unoccupied by the property owner.

[2:09:38] We're seeing these here in the city, and of course everywhere, uses vacation,

[2:09:42] travel, party rentals. Again, anytime that you would potentially use a hotel,

[2:09:46] Now, you can rent someone's house instead.

[2:09:50] A few years ago, these weren't on our radar.

[2:09:54] We had a head count of about five or six.

[2:09:56] They weren't really causing any challenges on our end.

[2:10:00] So we had no need to begin regulating them.

[2:10:04] As you can see within the last couple of years though,

[2:10:07] they've taken off exponentially.

[2:10:09] The largest of which Airbnb, they have 14 million properties globally

[2:10:15] as of last year. That also accounts for $74 billion global market in 2021. And I think it's

[2:10:21] important for Council to realize that this is a business. These folks are running these

[2:10:27] operations as a profit venture, as reflected in the global market. And then, of course,

[2:10:33] there are, aside from the Airbnb, that most people commonly think of, there are hundreds

[2:10:37] of other hosting platforms as well. Also important to note, well, we did see a decline

[2:10:43] as most things during the pandemic. While I haven't gotten firm numbers yet, they have rebounded

[2:10:48] to about what they were pre-pandemic and some are indicating that it's actually setting new

[2:10:53] new records. So we're continuing to see these increase. Where are they in Carrilton?

[2:11:00] They're everywhere. We have a company that's able to go through all of the different hosting platforms

[2:11:06] and pull together a list for us. This is just a demo, so to speak, but these are actual properties

[2:11:12] listed within Carrollton today.

[2:11:15] What we're seeing is about 250 to 300 locations,

[2:11:18] reason they couldn't provide us with a firm number.

[2:11:21] There are duplications.

[2:11:22] If we were to actually contract the company,

[2:11:24] that's when they would provide us with the firm number.

[2:11:27] And at least 30 different hosting platforms.

[2:11:34] By complaints, as you saw the properties increase,

[2:11:38] we're also seeing the complaints increase.

[2:11:39] So just looking at the last couple of years,

[2:11:42] it's difficult for us to actually tease this information

[2:11:44] out of our thousands of code complaints that we receive unless if the

[2:11:48] complainant specifically stated it's related to an Airbnb or a short-term

[2:11:53] rental. Otherwise, a noise complaint is going to get buried with the rest of the

[2:11:56] noise complaints. But I ran a case search on our last three years of code cases and

[2:12:02] this is what came back. So we have in a sending order of complaint by resident

[2:12:07] parking issues, high-gress and weeds, trash as you can imagine these properties

[2:12:12] are not fully vacated and the property owners often not living there so some of the maintenance

[2:12:16] is being neglected. Not registered, the neighbor is alleging that they're not currently

[2:12:22] under any of our rental programs. The last two I think tell the real story, the best

[2:12:29] way to get your neighbor's attention is by having too many people that are causing a lot

[2:12:32] of noise disturbance. And that's how they're being brought to us, most commonly in code

[2:12:38] enforcement. There's too many people having parties. I can't sleep. And this is

[2:12:45] when code enforcement staff determined it was best to start our benchmarking

[2:12:51] process to determine what are other cities doing in this situation.

[2:12:56] So we did

[2:12:56] some benchmarking. And as you can see most cities they did this fairly recently

[2:13:00] within the last couple of years. Also important to note with the exception of

[2:13:04] Grand Prairie that it has an ordinance on the books. They're not doing a

[2:13:08] registration-free, they're also not doing interior inspections, but every other city that

[2:13:12] has one has both registration and inspection.

[2:13:17] In addition to our research, we've also found we can't ban short-term rentals.

[2:13:22] Those have been going through some legal challenges.

[2:13:25] Not only do we feel like that's not the best fit for our community, but again, with those

[2:13:29] legal challenges, it's not an avenue that we're interested in going in.

[2:13:35] What we closely followed, however, was Arlington.

[2:13:38] They have an ordinance that was challenged and it was upheld in courts.

[2:13:42] So we know that there is some legal precedent here for regulating short-term rentals.

[2:13:49] So where we began was looking at what do we already have on the books that are similar and

[2:13:53] that's our hotels.

[2:13:54] Again, these are hotel alternatives that made the most sense to start with chapter 97.

[2:13:59] It already requires a license for our hotels to operate and motels.

[2:14:04] This provides that framework for hotel inspections, the enforcement process, as well as if we have

[2:14:11] habitual violators, the denial or revocation of their lodging license, and of course

[2:14:17] due process through appeals, it's someone worth to actually have their license revoked.

[2:14:24] So again, try to keep at high level, looking at the requiring of lodging license to operate.

[2:14:30] This is basic information that we currently don't have.

[2:14:33] If we were to begin this program, the property owner would have to let us know how many

[2:14:37] guest rooms they have and how many people are allowed under chapter 96 of the single

[2:14:42] family housing code.

[2:14:44] In addition to that, they would have to register for the hotel occupancy tax, again, similar

[2:14:50] to every hotel that we already have here in the city.

[2:14:54] For some more short-term specific requirements, host rules maintained on site, and if we're

[2:14:59] We have it.

[2:15:00] Some requirements. That not only the property owners need to abide by their tenants are also required to be to abide by those rules. They need to know what those rules are. The next one, off street parking and a floor plan. Again, that's more information for city staff. And we'll talk about the parking a little bit later. But also important for us, contact info of the property owner and a local party. Some of the property owners are not carols and residents. They may not even be in DFW at all. This would have a local party.

[2:15:29] that's required to respond 24-7 if there is an emergency or some other event that we need to get

[2:15:34] hold of someone that can manage that property.

[2:15:40] Next, the inspection process. What we're looking

[2:15:42] at right now is just one annual interior inspection that's similar to what we're already doing for our

[2:15:47] hotels. In addition to any complaint-based responses that we need to enact in regards to a residential

[2:15:55] complaint.

[2:15:57] Again, those are both already required under the ordinance, as well as premises conditions.

[2:16:02] This is looking at the life safety and public health aspects for the actual tenants, not

[2:16:06] necessarily the property owners.

[2:16:07] So ensuring that someone that wants to stay here in Carrollton and they opt to do Airbnb

[2:16:12] or similar short-term rental, that they have a clean space that's not dangerous and is

[2:16:18] a fair condition.

[2:16:22] There's an additional short-term rental restrictions, parking, similar to our hotels and

[2:16:29] other businesses.

[2:16:30] If you have a business in Carrollton, you need to have your own parking lot for it.

[2:16:35] And our parking lot for a short-term rental is going to be the garage and driveway.

[2:16:38] So if you have a two-sole garage and your driveway can fit two cars, you can only have four

[2:16:43] cars on that property, disallowing them to park on the street, as well as an unapproved surface

[2:16:49] is that's a code violation in itself.

[2:16:52] I already mentioned the occupancy load.

[2:16:54] This is you trying to keep from having those party houses

[2:16:57] that you may have heard of

[2:16:58] and some other issues in not only our city

[2:17:01] but other cities that have short-term rentals.

[2:17:04] Okay, kind of explain the parking again.

[2:17:07] Sure, so what we're proposing would require

[2:17:11] that you have to provide off-street parking for your tenants.

[2:17:15] So be that the driveway or the garage,

[2:17:17] the tenants want to be allowed to park on the residential streets.

[2:17:21] So that should be Cannot Park on street, right?

[2:17:27] Yes, Cannot Park on off street, yeah.

[2:17:31] It must be on the driveway garage.

[2:17:34] Most of all street.

[2:17:37] Okay.

[2:17:40] Third, can't convert rooms to bedrooms.

[2:17:43] That also includes garages.

[2:17:45] We have seen some of these properties split

[2:17:47] a five-bedroom home into ten or more. That obviously comes with some building

[2:17:51] code violations, some life-saving issues in addition to that. And again, that

[2:17:57] helps keep that cap on the maximum occupancy load as well. Noise, a curfew and

[2:18:03] no-san equipment, 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. that's consistent with our current noise

[2:18:06] ordinance as well. But trying to limit some of those party atmospheres while the

[2:18:11] adjacent neighbors may be living their daily life, having to go to work the next day.

[2:18:17] Last and special events that refers to no weddings, concerts, anything that would draw a large

[2:18:23] crowd that needs a lot of parking in addition to excess new ways.

[2:18:31] So tonight again, the goal is just to keep a high level overview, broad strokes of what

[2:18:35] we're proposing.

[2:18:36] Our next steps will then to bring this back before Council is a red line.

[2:18:40] That would be the opportunity to go through it as a Council with a fine teeth comb, ask

[2:18:45] some more of those detailed questions regarding what we're proposing.

[2:18:50] If approved, this would also need to go before P and Z. There are going to be some changes

[2:18:57] to the CZO for the use matrix that we need to go through. So we would start that process

[2:19:02] if Council is generally in favor of going in this direction.

[2:19:06] And after it's approved by the P and Z, we would then bring back the hotel ordinance updates

[2:19:12] to the tax code, the fee schedule, and then of course that CZO would be the very last piece

[2:19:17] after everything else. So a lot of moving parts with this particular proposed ordinance,

[2:19:23] but with that I'm happy to answer any questions that you have today.

[2:19:27] Do you have, can you maybe tell us for some of the benchmark cities are doing?

[2:19:33] Sure.

[2:19:36] So by large cities that have this ordinance on the books, they are doing both the

[2:19:41] the registration and inspection program.

[2:19:44] It's hard to do one without the other.

[2:19:47] So relative to kind of the recommendations,

[2:19:50] this, you believe that this kind of tells where we have,

[2:19:55] says cities that have adopted similar to the recommendation,

[2:19:58] I guess.

[2:19:58] So they're doing the hotel thing?

[2:20:00] Yeah, that's far too far.

[2:20:01] Correct.

[2:20:01] Yeah, most cities are doing a hotel or similar process

[2:20:04] for that tax on these businesses.

[2:20:08] To answer your question, though, Mayor,

[2:20:10] there. We closely modeled ours off Arlington. Most cities that we have listed here followed a similar structure, but in general, these cities are doing the registration enforcement and then varying degrees of specific requirements.

[2:20:25] So Arlington, for example, they have to be within a short distance to the entertainment district, which we're not proposing. That would be any single family neighborhood could have a short term rental unless if it's not approved by their HOA.

[2:20:40] Thank you, and very much appreciate staff looking into this and seeing the need as far

[2:20:50] as the volume and what's actually happening in our city, it's very much appreciated as

[2:20:56] a single family owner in Carrollton and knowing the growth of this specifically online

[2:21:02] with online brokers.

[2:21:05] I just have a couple of questions.

[2:21:07] The first one is, is the process in which to achieve this registration, is it exactly

[2:21:15] the same as a hotel we go through, or is you're envisioning it being different?

[2:21:22] Is it something that someone can do easily online if you thought through, yet knowing

[2:21:27] it's just beginning of the conversation, what that process would look like, and would it

[2:21:31] be any different than the existing processes in place?

[2:21:33] So, to compare it to a hotel, it would be considerably less work for the property owner.

[2:21:39] They have to show four plans for every room.

[2:21:42] We're not, we don't have, you know, multi-story houses here, beyond the two-story.

[2:21:49] We're trying to make this as user-friendly as possible, because again, we're not trying

[2:21:53] to ban or prohibit short-term rentals.

[2:21:55] We're just trying to ensure that it's being done right, and that they integrate well with

[2:21:59] our single-family neighborhoods.

[2:22:02] Okay, so I'm anxious to be able to see what that, you know, eventually what that process

[2:22:05] would actually look like and what would, you know.

[2:22:08] Councillor, probably more similar to the rental registration for a single family home,

[2:22:14] which is a process they already have in place.

[2:22:16] Okay.

[2:22:17] So that would be kind of the benchmark of what you would utilize to be able to?

[2:22:21] Yeah, that is a great starting point for us.

[2:22:24] So there may be some additional paperwork that were not required under the rental program,

[2:22:28] but very similar and that's fairly user friendly as well on both the resident side and staff side as well.

[2:22:35] Great. I just think it would be helpful this word to be brought for council that we would have

[2:22:42] kind of an outline of what that process would look like and if it deviated at all from the existing.

[2:22:45] It would be set forth in the ordinance what they needed to do and what they needed to provide and

[2:22:49] and of course there's going to be additional information since it's an on again often again unlike

[2:22:54] like a rental registration, which is usually a long-term period, you don't need to contact

[2:22:59] the owner.

[2:23:00] And that was kind of where leading to my second, this would be something you would need

[2:23:04] to continually do on an annual basis or something you would do at-

[2:23:08] Both of these are an annual, would be an annual.

[2:23:11] And then my last question, sir, would be, I didn't see anything about insurance, is there

[2:23:16] any kind of insurance that's needed, specifically, I would assume that from a business standpoint

[2:23:23] point that your homeowner's insurance would need to be adjusted, or is that something

[2:23:29] that you would consider including in the registration some sort of insurance?

[2:23:33] It wouldn't be something, I mean, are you considering that?

[2:23:35] Well, we have that language in there now.

[2:23:38] If I believe it's a million dollar liability insurance, it would not be uncommon for the

[2:23:42] second business regardless, but providing that proof of insurance.

[2:23:46] Like some of that's actually part of the Airbnb or BRVO agreements.

[2:23:52] Right, but if they weren't using any of those, if they were going to be, I mean, this, you're not married to using Airbnb or any of those services you could be able to get the registration and be able to do this on your own as well, correct?

[2:24:03] This would be directly through the city, so the hosting platforms would not be a part of the process.

[2:24:07] Right, so the state of actually Airbnb's requirements, our requirement would be, yes, there would be something stipulated in the requirements that would require some level of insurance.

[2:24:19] If you were to be able to gain this registration, is that correct?

[2:24:22] Correct.

[2:24:22] Yeah.

[2:24:22] That would be, as Meredith was saying, by ordinance as well as during their application

[2:24:27] period, there will be on that application the additional documents that they'd have to

[2:24:31] provide.

[2:24:34] Whether source, there are B&B, VR, VRBO, or individually, the house and the owner would still have to

[2:24:40] comply with this.

[2:24:41] Correct.

[2:24:42] And there are some private listings that they have their own website as they have multiple

[2:24:45] properties.

[2:24:46] they would have to follow this as well.

[2:24:48] Appreciate it.

[2:24:48] Thank you.

[2:24:49] I think Councilmember.

[2:24:53] We'll go through and we approve this.

[2:24:55] We're all up and running.

[2:24:56] Are you going to have to go back and filter all those VRBO and

[2:25:01] Airbnb and say, okay, now homeowners, we have this.

[2:25:05] Notify all those people that they have to get licensed.

[2:25:08] Yes.

[2:25:09] It's a tedious process to.

[2:25:11] Correct.

[2:25:11] So we're hoping that that contracted service that provided us

[2:25:15] with this starting point, we would be able to get that fine detailed tedious work on our

[2:25:23] behalf done. Once we have that list, that would be an ongoing thing that we would also

[2:25:26] need to do annually, just to ensure that everyone is registering under the program.

[2:25:32] What

[2:25:32] was the, there was a part two year question. Oh, that was, that was it. Yeah. That's just

[2:25:36] it would be a tedious process. Now what about the notice with this go up to all of Carolton?

[2:25:41] Yes, so the notice process that will actually be a council decision point at the next council meeting during the red line is how long do we want to give these?

[2:25:51] Short term rental property owners time to get in all of the paperwork and comply.

[2:25:56] We currently are suggesting one year, but of course that's not the council as to how long they want to provide them.

[2:26:01] I think your question was a little different.

[2:26:02] Mine was more from a zoning change.

[2:26:05] No, it's not.

[2:26:05] This is not a zoning change that's proposed right now.

[2:26:09] This is to the hotel code.

[2:26:11] And so the notice, there's no notice required

[2:26:13] other than just the agenda.

[2:26:15] And what I think director would like to do

[2:26:18] is use this software to be able to mail directed

[2:26:21] to the people who are impacted not to all of y'all

[2:26:28] if you're not running a short-term rental for your house.

[2:26:31] So even though this would go through

[2:26:33] the planning and zoning commission.

[2:26:35] not this part, there would be a second part that would go through planning.

[2:26:38] Would that part have to be, would notice have to go out to all of the city?

[2:26:43] There's going to be some changes coming to the actual text of the zoning code that will

[2:26:47] revise how the notices made for text amendments.

[2:26:51] So that will be done before that's brought to you.

[2:26:54] So if the answer is no.

[2:26:55] So in hopes of avoiding kind of what we-

[2:26:58] That will not happen again.

[2:26:59] Okay.

[2:27:01] Councilmember Fund.

[2:27:02] Yes.

[2:27:03] Five years ago, I served with the Texas Hotel lodging association down in Austin, so advocating

[2:27:10] a lot for this short-term rental.

[2:27:14] Have you guys checked with the City of San Antonio because they've done some great.

[2:27:17] I think they're probably one of the leaders in this short-term rental space, especially

[2:27:22] when it comes to code of codifying short-term rentals because they have a lot of issues and

[2:27:29] And they're doing the same thing with what we're

[2:27:31] sitting here proposing right now.

[2:27:35] It's just a good source.

[2:27:37] Probably by 85% of the short term rentals will

[2:27:42] be on FIARBO, and what you do have an outside company

[2:27:49] that is going to assist in identifying the rest, correct?

[2:27:53] Correct, yes.

[2:27:54] Yes, and that would be for all the multiple hosting sites,

[2:27:57] just the top ones.

[2:27:58] We've decided what the city hotel tax rate will be that would be a council decision

[2:28:05] But you already have the hotel occupancy tax rate, but

[2:28:10] Yeah, that's not something staff will make it. I think that would come as this comes back right now

[2:28:15] They're looking for some direction thumbs up thumbs down kind of a week here to week there. I'll just saying this because you know they

[2:28:24] VRBOs, I was part of the process, they don't like to be identified in course, but I understand

[2:28:29] you got to have some type of rules and regulations in place to have them.

[2:28:34] My next question is then, you know, what type of, once we do put this on the books, is

[2:28:43] there going to be a more important for them to get their stuff together because you start

[2:28:48] doing those hotel occupancy tax audits, you know, that could be a problem for some, right?

[2:28:54] Of course. That's of course that y'all's discretion, okay. And then also, and my last comment is

[2:28:59] that this upcoming Texas legislature, they will be, they will be trying to pre-up cities from

[2:29:06] enacting such restrictions on RSV ABOs, so just know that's coming. So that's all I have.

[2:29:19] Obviously y'all did better research. I reviewed what the law firm that played out the presentation

[2:29:27] that they provided to them and met with it. A lot of what they were saying was based

[2:29:32] on the Harlington as well. And I began very familiar with what they're doing in Farmers

[2:29:37] Branch, what they did in 2019. A couple of questions and most of this relates to what they're

[2:29:43] doing in Farmer's branch, or we're looking at having an age restriction, a minimum rental

[2:29:49] period, and also are the Arlington, are the parking restrictions, is that something on

[2:29:57] street parking restrictions, is that something that?

[2:30:00] Arlington is doing currently. Regarding Arlington, I don't recall if they have the same parking restrictions. That's certainly something I can review and bring back to the nice council meeting. Just curious if that part had been tested. And, you know, you've got events on their, you know, farmers branch specifically says no parties. And that's posted. And then lastly, penalties. And that's something that I presume, you know,

[2:30:28] for the violation of this will be,

[2:30:31] is that already established or?

[2:30:33] Yes, through the proposed ordinance,

[2:30:35] there will be the enforcement and penalty side as well.

[2:30:39] Okay, we're not complaining.

[2:30:40] Thank you.

[2:30:42] I'm excited about this opportunity.

[2:30:45] I had a really good friend,

[2:30:47] Lee Carrollton and Bill Beltsworth

[2:30:49] because their neighbor was a horrible rental property

[2:30:53] that was a nightmare

[2:30:54] and the property owner threatened them and such.

[2:30:57] So I think that as we have a responsibility to do something to control the worse.

[2:31:03] We know there's a lot of really good ones, but what can we do to help give us the tools

[2:31:08] to address the really bad ones?

[2:31:10] And I remember when the city started inspecting house rentals, and it was about 20 years ago.

[2:31:15] A lot of slum lords got put out of business, and I see this as a similar purpose that we have.

[2:31:21] My question is, one that I familiar with, sleeps 20?

[2:31:26] What size house would that be in your, do you have any idea what, would sleep 20 people?

[2:31:33] I do, and no house would be allowed to sleep 20.

[2:31:36] That's why.

[2:31:36] Okay, really?

[2:31:37] Yeah, that's why the chapter 96 makes my mind messy.

[2:31:40] No more than 10 unrelated adult.

[2:31:44] Okay.

[2:31:46] So interesting.

[2:31:47] I was curious how it advertises it sleeps 20 or so.

[2:31:50] actually have just in case that came up. So it's based on square footage and then maximum adults

[2:32:00] again no more than four are unrelated. One other gives yeah actually plumbing, sorry.

[2:32:07] I took the liberty of reading our current hotel, roles that we have in place,

[2:32:12] are you going to use some of those penalties every time someone gets a police officer gets called out,

[2:32:19] It's a it's a what point against them calls for service. Yes. We do we do include that but we're

[2:32:26] taking a slightly different approach. It's actually by conviction of a citation. Okay. Okay. I like

[2:32:32] that a lot better because my concerns are the apathy toward short-term rentals. People don't like

[2:32:38] them in their neighborhood. Some do. Some don't. I just want to prevent what's what's going to

[2:32:43] a neighbor from calling in, you know, unwarranted, right, and getting a point system against

[2:32:51] the potential short-term runnable. That's what I, that's what I dealt with. Being on the other side,

[2:32:58] advocating for short-term rentals, but I'm now here with the city. So, the different process.

[2:33:02] It's a delicate balance because there's property rights. And then there's the, you know, creating a safe

[2:33:08] and a nice neighborhood and that's very difficult.

[2:33:12] Well, as we're going through this exercise, I kind of point to 2026 when the World Cup comes

[2:33:20] in the area.

[2:33:22] And what?

[2:33:23] I said, we all want to rent, just kidding.

[2:33:25] Well, I mean, that's kind of the three possible, you know, somebody might be able to rent their

[2:33:28] house for a month and pay their mortgage or whatever for a year.

[2:33:33] And should they have to pay the full fee to be able to register for that short amount of

[2:33:41] time should they have to go through the same inspection process because I think we're

[2:33:44] going to have a lot of possible applications or a lot of ignorance going up to that.

[2:33:50] So I just ask that you all kind of keep that in mind.

[2:33:52] Yeah, what qualifies as a short-term realm?

[2:33:55] All right, if they've done it, if they do it for three nights in a year, does that qualify?

[2:33:59] This is not.

[2:34:00] I think there's some caveats that we need to understand.

[2:34:03] Right.

[2:34:03] And those are all things y'all can consider when you do it.

[2:34:05] If you want to have some sort of a carve out even, I mean, those are all things y'all can consider

[2:34:10] and how staff puts it together.

[2:34:13] How it's currently proposed is if it were a three to seven night,

[2:34:18] they would still be required to register.

[2:34:21] Council does not want to go on that direction.

[2:34:22] They want to set a minimum threshold that they would have to say.

[2:34:25] We can certainly consider that.

[2:34:26] I mean, from a tax perspective, you know,

[2:34:28] if I think it's 15 nights or something like that,

[2:34:30] but some people will do it from a tax strategy

[2:34:34] and rent it for X number of nights

[2:34:37] so that they can treat us to business

[2:34:39] and take a tax deduction, and then the balances

[2:34:41] that can live in there without dealing

[2:34:44] with the tax deduction.

[2:34:45] So we'll want to basically ensure

[2:34:47] that we're in alignment on all those things, I think.

[2:34:52] Council, again, consensus is where they're looking for

[2:34:55] based on what you heard today in terms of going forward.

[2:34:59] Looks like you got consensus.

[2:35:00] Thank you.

[2:35:01] Thank you.

[2:35:01] All right.

[2:35:05] That's our last item is item number seven,

[2:35:07] which is our mayor and council reports

[2:35:10] before we go into executive session.

[2:35:14] What's the difference?

[2:35:16] The council members on.

[2:35:17] I'll go to a couple of British clubs

[2:35:19] and just share what's called wash wax.

[2:35:25] So it's called laundromat.

[2:35:27] Now I realize how high tech that place was.

[2:35:32] And it's really great to present March and train the meals.

[2:35:38] And they tell you, if it's done,

[2:35:40] They'll tell you their tax use is done.

[2:35:45] You could be in a car, wherever.

[2:35:47] So I thought that was fascinating with the high tax.

[2:35:49] So that's great is for our cities.

[2:35:53] And maybe you could talk to about the kid.

[2:35:56] He's gentle.

[2:35:57] Both attended a new dental.

[2:36:00] A pediatric dental opening.

[2:36:02] Up on training meals in McCoy.

[2:36:06] Didn't have anything like that back in the dark ages

[2:36:08] when I was a child.

[2:36:09] I think it's great. There's going to be another flyers for us.

[2:36:20] Anyone else? That's a number for me.

[2:36:23] Yes. I went to help my uncle Buck celebrate the 1972 East Texas National

[2:36:30] Championship team. I remember that vividly as a kid going to their national

[2:36:37] championship game. He also played with Harvey Martin.

[2:36:42] So probably to the house back when I was a kid but always no one was with us

[2:36:46] But it was nice to be able to see

[2:36:49] Celebratory see all the guys back and things like that a lot of them stayed at hotels and had a son

[2:36:55] Some off at 35 and some in Dallas. So it was a it was a nice event

[2:37:01] It then also got to celebrate the young man over at noon with Smith

[2:37:05] How that I'm trying to montagre the montagrean. Yeah, he had 10 catches for a hundred and fifty three yards

[2:37:12] Um, um, had, uh, what, three interceptions, one, we turn for TD.

[2:37:19] Uh,

[2:37:24] I'll stand a young man. Um, very outstanding that he has the athletic gifts,

[2:37:28] but he also has the academic gifts as well. And so that's to be appreciated

[2:37:32] from a student athlete. So a lot to be proud of.

[2:37:40] Mayor, I'll mention that this Saturday at 9 a.m., we got coffee with the cop, I have

[2:37:44] parks coffee at 1401 MacArthur Drive, and then, of course, in a really big upcoming

[2:37:50] event, I'll just see a few words.

[2:37:51] It's November the 5th, Festival at the switch yard, starting at 11 a.m., so.

[2:37:57] Our signature event?

[2:37:58] Yeah.

[2:37:59] So, I got.

[2:38:00] Excellent.

[2:38:02] Thank you Mr. Mayor Carolton has a golf event on November 3rd next Thursday that I know a few of us will be in attendance in playing.

[2:38:16] So excited about that and celebrating our municipal golf course here in Carolton.

[2:38:23] But most importantly, I'd like to be able to extend my condolences to the Northam family,

[2:38:32] our police department, our city and staff for the tragedy that has happened to our city.

[2:38:42] Most of us, if not all of us, will be in attendance on this Thursday and to be able to pair

[2:38:51] our respects and want to be able to show my appreciation for the entire city, what they're

[2:38:59] doing in reaching out and supporting our city, our police department and the North and

[2:39:04] family.

[2:39:07] Thank you.

[2:39:08] Since you mentioned call, let me just say that American Legion has asked, they'd love

[2:39:13] to have a council team or two.

[2:39:16] So if there's two or four that would like to play, I'll just ask that you maybe let Chloe

[2:39:21] So we know and then we'll let the Legion know, but it's on November 12th and it's a American

[2:39:28] Legion health term.

[2:39:31] Is this an angle thing?

[2:39:33] It's, I'm not sure it's annual, but it's the Legion's just product form, so you just

[2:39:37] answer.

[2:39:38] It's a, it's a fundraiser for the Legion, they've done it before.

[2:39:45] They've done it at Brookhaven, they've done it out at a new creek in the past.

[2:39:49] I know that they just formulated that just recently.

[2:39:52] So it's really to be able to come out and support post 5.97 so I definitely I'll I'm certainly going to plan

[2:40:00] I would encourage everybody to be able to come out and support post 5.97 American Legion with the Gulf

[2:40:04] Okay, and then and then don't forget ghost town is this weekend. It's happening because a lot of I know there's a lot of

[2:40:11] Trump or treatish

[2:40:12] Events happening, but ghost town on the square as well

[2:40:17] The Gulf Hermits in Carrollton

[2:40:19] So, yeah, it is.

[2:40:20] So, also on Saturday, we have October fest from 5-7-3 nations got to attend another

[2:40:31] revenue cutting today with Council Member Pendleton for Wing Snobbup on Hebron and Midway

[2:40:38] had a terrific lunch, really, really kind of astounding food and a great community partner

[2:40:46] or they've already catered a golf tournament for train.

[2:40:52] I know it was a charity golf tournament

[2:40:53] for benefiting St. Jude and they provided the catering

[2:40:58] and a half price.

[2:40:59] So they're already jumping into the community

[2:41:01] joining the Metricress Chamber.

[2:41:05] Like Council Member Axper was saying,

[2:41:08] we had a candlelight vigil last week

[2:41:11] and that was, or this non-Sunday

[2:41:14] And it was incredibly touching and hopefully very healing, I personally think some of the police officers from Fort Worth who are standing in to make it possible for our law enforcement to step back and do their grieving.

[2:41:37] And, you know, again, my condolences also to the family of Mr. Parker, who perished in

[2:41:44] that accident as well.

[2:41:51] You had an event?

[2:41:54] I think we're going to, I'm free to end it at that solemn note.

[2:42:00] And if you don't mind, sir, the mayor had an event downtown at three nations put himself

[2:42:07] and the duck and both. And I'm hitting the connoisseur, so I took the liberty of spending

[2:42:16] $15 because I'll take any chance to dump them in. And I stood up there and I had 15 swings

[2:42:24] and swings and I missed. And Zach was like, man, you came through. I said, yeah, I'm

[2:42:33] Perfectly and that God now that cannot throw a baseball, but anyhow, it's a good event.

[2:42:40] I didn't succeed.

[2:42:42] I do want to point out yesterday because it's awfully rainy and I know that it impacted

[2:42:49] turnout, but we do have an election going on and so the polling locations are open for

[2:42:54] early voting and I encourage everybody that's paying attention to this to have voted make

[2:42:59] you're about to plan and try and show the right and the freedom about that we enjoy.

[2:43:08] There's also on November 4th Chloe we'll be getting an invitation to our alternative

[2:43:13] our new mismatch battle of to the line so yeah that's the real battle that's the only

[2:43:24] battle okay any other info staff at all okay and with that we are going to counsel all convene

[2:43:37] In an executive session, pursuant to Texas government code numbers to section 551.071 for private consultation with the city attorney to seek legal advice with respect and in contemplated litigation, including all matters on this agenda to which the city attorney has to do the end of the Texas rules of discipline and professional conduct regarding confidential communication by the city council and section 551.087 to discuss economic development.

City Council on 2022-10-25 5:45 PM

Agenda

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