[0:00] I'm going to call this a planning commission meeting to order the on-air lives on so we can talk.

[0:09] Okay, could I please get a motion to approve the agenda?

[0:14] A motion to approve the agenda?

[0:16] Have a motion from Sherry and a second?

[0:19] Second?

[0:20] I'm sorry.

[0:21] Billy.

[0:22] Billy, sorry, Billy.

[0:23] You're fine?

[0:23] Second from Billy.

[0:25] Any further discussion?

[0:27] see none on Faber CI and opposed motion carries a little bit this agenda.

[0:36] Kay, I also would like to get a motion to approve the minutes of April 18, 2024.

[0:42] I'll make that motion.

[0:44] Thank you.

[0:44] I'll second that motion.

[0:46] Motion in a second.

[0:48] A further discussion.

[0:51] All those in Faber CI and the post minutes are approved.

[0:57] Public hearing.

[0:58] I would like motion to open the public here.

[1:06] Thank you, Jim.

[1:06] There's motions or second?

[1:10] Oh.

[1:10] Did I have to do that?

[1:12] All right.

[1:12] You can open it.

[1:13] When I want the public hearing is now open.

[1:15] Ernst Smith will go over the presentation.

[1:18] Thank you.

[1:19] Thank you.

[1:21] All right.

[1:22] Leave your eyes there.

[1:23] No, no.

[1:24] Absolutely not.

[1:25] A quick rundown of things we're going to cover tonight.

[1:27] It's three of two applications in for Timber Creek.

[1:29] The first is a PRD amendment.

[1:31] It's pretty technical, so we're going to talk through it.

[1:33] Erin Schmidt, the Assistant City Engineer is here too if you have questions for him or for me I want everyone to get a pretty firm understanding

[1:40] This is a technical one, but it's pretty straightforward, so it's good practice for something that might come in our future

[1:46] Then we have Final Pat for Phase 5, which is the Final Phase of Timber Creek.

[1:51] We have a concept planning from United Properties in Lashwab, and then we'll be going over a section of the city code and the sign ordinance.

[1:58] So, first on the agenda is the PRDM amendment for Timber Creek, so I'm going to walk through

[2:03] some slides.

[2:04] We'll open up the public hearing and have some discussion.

[2:08] So, Timber Creek is a little in our project that is just west of Carveral Elementary.

[2:12] It's been under construction for the past four years, so it's a mix of town homes and

[2:17] single family homes.

[2:18] It's the project that brought us the expansion of Ironwood Park, so the additional shelter,

[2:24] the basketball court, the skate park, et cetera.

[2:26] So on the screen now is an overview of Timber Creek, so again, a one-hour product that's been in the community for a while.

[2:34] We have worked through the PRD zoning, so in preliminary plot went through a PRD was required for this project.

[2:42] I go into some details about what a PRD is and why we do it, but tonight we're looking to amend that PRD.

[2:49] So PRD allows for deviation from the city code.

[2:52] We typically see this if there are requests for setback reduction or lot size reductions.

[2:57] So that happens pretty frequently for us. So if you think about the villa products that we often see,

[3:02] going down to the 5,000 square full lot with a five foot side yard setback, that's our most common

[3:06] priority. Timber Creek is a priority because there was a mix of housing types. So it was single family

[3:12] and town homes. So the two being together didn't fit in one section of our city code. So a

[3:17] RAD was required to allow for both of those things to happen simultaneously in one project.

[3:23] A PRD creates a stand-alone ordinance for a specific project.

[3:26] So any project that has a PRD has an ordinance written for it,

[3:31] that the planning commission and city council both review,

[3:34] and it dials specifically into the details,

[3:36] so it goes into things like setback, cloud sizes, et cetera.

[3:40] Notice in public hearing is required for a PRD,

[3:43] technically a resounding. So tonight we're talking about is a PRDM and which will replace

[3:48] the existing PRD ordinance with us on. So it's technically a resounding, but it's under a

[3:53] PRD amendment. Chris, did I see those eyebrows working?

[3:57] He's only of a PRD. So we already resounded once in our resounding again. Correct. So why are we

[4:04] here? Why are we talking about it? What happened? So we at a self-level recognized that

[4:09] property adjacent to timber creek was challenging to develop due to topography, so the area around

[4:15] timber creek is still in the township, so we don't know a ton about the properties, we know that

[4:19] they're in their annexation area, we know some of the property owners. One of the goals always

[4:24] with residential development is to allow property to develop that's adjacent, so anytime that

[4:29] a project comes through, we require that sewer and water gets stubbed to the property line, so the next

[4:34] person or the next project can hook in right at that property line and go from there.

[4:39] We recognize this pretty late in the review, so we took a pretty hard look at phase

[4:45] five.

[4:46] There's a lift station which Erin spent a lot of time looking at and then this portion of

[4:50] the project left us scratching our heads for a while but we were able to work with Leonardo

[4:55] to come up with a good solution, I think, based on both of our needs, both of our

[5:05] back up one to the choice. So this is specifically the area that we're looking for for the PRD

[5:10] amendment. You'll see throughout this plan, there's a yellow dash line. So that's a really

[5:14] beautiful and lovely trail segment that's being added. So it's similar to Hothornage, low maintenance

[5:19] trail, along a large ravine system. And you can see in the circle on the bottom of the screen right now

[5:26] that the trail system hooks into phase five. So this area on the southernmost portion is phase five,

[5:32] which we're also reviewing tonight.

[5:34] And you can see that in the time of preliminary

[5:37] a plat, there was space for that trail easement

[5:39] to go between two houses.

[5:40] So it was going to be 25 feet wide, just for a trail easement,

[5:44] no connection.

[5:46] And then we recognized the piece out that's owned by a family

[5:50] called, we call them the Bangston's,

[5:52] that's the Bangston family.

[5:53] So you'll see that the topography of the site

[5:56] is really challenging.

[5:57] So the closer the lines, the deeper it is.

[6:00] And you can see that there's not a great way

[6:02] up dog or in road to get to any developable area on this property. So you can see their driver

[6:08] right now is about here and I believe that happened because they're in the township. So they're

[6:14] not subject to the city's bluff rules right now because they're not in city limits. So the

[6:19] day the property is annexed into the city of Carver though then be subject to the bluff ordinance

[6:23] which we know is sometimes challenging to develop with but it's really important. It's something

[6:29] that allows for projects to develop while also maintaining bluff.

[6:33] But you can see here that access from Dalgrin is likely not going to happen.

[6:38] Once the bluff rules have an impact on this property.

[6:41] So we took a step back with Lanar with phase five of Timber Creek and we asked them what would it look like if we could access the Bengston piece from the north.

[6:49] So we moved to the process working with them trying to figure it out.

[6:53] We believe that there's a small area of developer-bulland.

[6:56] It's not huge.

[6:57] This won't be our next 100 single-family home development.

[7:01] We're thinking potentially between 10 and 20 home sites, but it could potentially give

[7:06] us another product of a larger, or a larger lot, just with different views of the topography

[7:14] with the bluff.

[7:15] So, we wanted to provide the begsensia ability to develop, show some day they choose, where

[7:20] if we didn't provide access from the north, it's not likely they can come from the south,

[7:24] So their property is essentially unable to develop beyond what it is today,

[7:28] which is just a single family home site.

[7:31] They are welcome to live there as long as they want to.

[7:33] They are welcome to sell it to someone if they want to keep it a single family home.

[7:37] But we know that there is likely development potential here.

[7:40] So we wanted to give them the future opportunity.

[7:42] Should they choose to develop?

[7:45] So again, the topography.

[7:46] This is the final part of phase five superimposed end.

[7:50] So it did some handy PowerPoint work, but you can see it here.

[7:53] So there's just the version you can see that typography is really tight, this is largely phase 5, so you can see it's much flatter here, much easier to develop, so

[8:03] Just wanting to provide some access to the North.

[8:06] So what that does, we worked with the North, we talked about a lot of options, many of them were terrible, but we got to one that we think is fair for both sides.

[8:16] So, with the new street going into this area,

[8:23] a lot nine and a lot one here become corner lots

[8:26] because there's now going to be a street there. So before it was simply going to be a trail access

[8:31] but now since the street is going in there they technically will be corner lots.

[8:36] In our city code there's a 20 foot setback from a street to a corner to the foundation on a corner.

[8:43] So the setback on these lots went from seven and a half feet to 20 on these two sides, which obviously was challenging.

[8:53] We started having conversations with an R, how can we squeeze it in, what could we take out, what could we lose?

[9:00] At this point in the process, losing a lot was a tough conversation map with an R when we could come up with some different options.

[9:07] So collectively we came up with a proposal to reduce the side yard setback from 20 to 12 and a half.

[9:13] specifically for these two lots. So it won't impact any other parts of the project except for these two lots since it went from a trail connection to a full street. That's the change.

[9:24] So there were a couple of things that we did. So there was, uh, there's a wetland access.

[9:29] That was in the preliminary plot. So you can see it circled on the screen here.

[9:33] Our engineering team took a look at it, took a look at the wetland in the pond and how potentially we could get there differently.

[9:38] If we simply removed this access, which we were able to do, the public services team and the engineering team

[9:45] will use that trail, so the trail here, the trail access to get up to the pond.

[9:51] So it'll be a little bit longer of a route, but a route that they absolutely can maneuver and make.

[9:56] So we're getting rid of this access right here, and then requesting this IDR production from 20 feet to 12.5 specifically for these two lots.

[10:04] So, this is the preliminary plot that was approved.

[10:08] You can see these two pieces that we're looking to change right at tonight for the PRD

[10:12] amendment.

[10:14] So, again, it's just for the two dots because they become corner-lots where previously they

[10:17] were just adjacent to a trail.

[10:21] So, the two areas on the final plot, so previously the preliminary plot was up.

[10:25] This is the revised final plot, so you can see here that that access point is removed, so

[10:31] there's going to be a pond right here.

[10:34] Instead of accessing it here, we're going to take

[10:37] high view road and loop around,

[10:40] which is accessible enough for our team.

[10:42] So getting rid of the access there

[10:44] and then again requesting the side area reduction

[10:46] from 20 to 12 and a half.

[10:50] So what we're doing tonight is technically creating

[10:52] a zoning ordinance for a project replacing the current

[10:54] PRD. We're not looking to change anything else

[10:57] for the PRD. It's just for those two lots.

[10:59] Since we're going from just a standard of that,

[11:02] seven and a half side yards up back to corners, which would be 20.

[11:06] Since it's technically a rezoning, notice was posted in the Mokonia Patriot, which is

[11:10] their new paper, and notice was sent to property owners within 350 feet, which is difficult

[11:16] and set by state statute.

[11:18] So tonight we're requesting that the Planning Commission hold the public hearing related

[11:21] to the cement and provide a recommendation to the city council.

[11:25] I'm going to stop now.

[11:26] I'll open it up for questions.

[11:27] I know that's a lot of information that we worked really hard on for a couple of weeks,

[11:31] just give it to you pretty quickly. So, do you have questions?

[11:37] Let's do questions, though.

[11:39] Oh, here is open.

[11:40] Yeah.

[11:41] I

[11:44] have one question concerning where is it high view?

[11:50] Yeah, where high view comes out.

[11:54] So that made their maybe development

[11:57] as high view, but it won't be very much.

[12:00] Correct.

[12:01] Like, more intense?

[12:04] Maybe more than 20.

[12:05] No.

[12:06] Okay, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't going to be a busy world.

[12:09] We've seen a couple of concepts that developers have tried to figure it out.

[12:13] The property was for sale about a year ago.

[12:16] And one of the concepts we saw had 14 lots.

[12:18] And that felt pretty tight for us.

[12:20] So I'd say somewhere between 10 and 20.

[12:23] So it definitely won't be a major thoroughfare.

[12:25] It'll be essentially a private drive.

[12:27] That's what I was wondering.

[12:28] Thank you.

[12:30] Anyone else have a question?

[12:31] Can you turn on the camera?

[12:33] I'm going to turn on the camera.

[12:34] Will it be a 26th Street?

[12:40] It's proposed to be a 24-foot street with the 8-foot trail on the side to still get into the trail system.

[12:48] And that all that that goes parallel to the Bluffs.

[12:51] So basically, as Aaron said, it's more or less going to be more of like a driveway feel.

[12:58] It's not going to be like a 32-foot streak going down there, so that's why we kind of had to just kind of work together and see what made the most sense for that spot given the fact that there's only going to likely be, you know,

[13:14] ten houses or whatever that would be, as Aaron said, it's it's really tight back there, but we just didn't want to

[13:28] extend the sewer water and streets of the property line, whatever we can, so

[13:37] if there's anybody

[13:38] from the public that we'd like to come in?

[13:43] I guess there are not. Maybe I also have a question

[13:46] or I just have one for the property owners themselves when they purchase these lots. Is there

[13:54] like a special notice that's given to them about the setback and then how is their personal property

[14:01] impacted by that setback. So like if somebody wants to put a fence in. So you can put a fence on

[14:09] our property line. This won't change in the situation. There are a little bit tricky on corners

[14:13] just with sight lines but generally at the face of your house anything beyond that you can put a

[14:19] six foot privacy fence. We do take into consideration intersection stop signs etc. during the review of

[14:31] PDRD amendment are those owning will be recorded against the property.

[14:35] So part of it will be it's a little bit tricky to put it in someone else's hands, but

[14:39] when our will be responsible for it, they'll come in for a permit.

[14:43] Typically these houses, they could be built and on someone buys it so they could recognize right away,

[14:50] but it will be likely up to an hour and they're real estate people to let everyone know about the

[14:55] change. Frankly, I suspect that people are going to be

[15:00] I think these lots are going to be easier to develop than they are because at 20-foot setback can be pretty jarring at times for people to understand that you can't put a house there, you can't put a shed there, so the reduction helps there too.

[15:20] I think it's pretty encouraging that we're thinking ahead and we're working with the other property owner, you know, and not shutting off their opportunities.

[15:30] So I think it's, I like how we're being proactive and appreciate that when I worked with

[15:40] us to take that into consideration.

[15:44] So it was kind of a scary minute when we were on a staff meeting and it was like, oh, we

[15:48] got to have that conversation.

[15:49] But they were a great partner.

[15:52] We had a long meeting just talking through options with them.

[15:55] So if anyone from Liner is watching, it was great.

[15:58] What was the reason for it was a changing lot while taking away that little area of the wetland?

[16:05] It gave us more space.

[16:07] So it allowed us to shift a lot.

[16:09] Oh, they shifted the lots.

[16:15] I got a question.

[16:18] We're guarding in the middle of the room.

[16:19] 7 and 9.

[16:21] 24 feet correct.

[16:22] Is this space 911?

[16:23] Yes.

[16:24] Is there any kind of need for a public service access?

[16:29] It's 24.

[16:29] adequate, or we not need to have certain, for public service, you know, fire, please second

[16:36] and come to that in that in the interception.

[16:39] That's a good question, so the fire code provides for if you have, like, a continuous

[16:48] street, it has to be a minimum with, but in this case, since it would be like a dead-end

[16:54] street extension. There's set distances where basically the fire department is allowed to drive in

[17:01] and then they can basically just back right out. So this will be a, this would be a call this

[17:07] act street in the future if it were to be extended. So I don't see any issues with it as it's

[17:13] laid out right now. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Erin, can you talk about some other streets in Carver

[17:19] that are 24, like I'm thinking about oak tree court?

[17:22] Yeah, there's a handful of streets that are at 24 feet.

[17:27] That's kind of a, I'll call it a minimum standard,

[17:30] it's 12 foot lanes, so to your point, Eric,

[17:34] if you can get more, it's good.

[17:37] So for our typical streets like in this piece of the development

[17:41] in the main loop road, there are 32 foot streets

[17:44] that's kind of our standard with, but 24 feet

[17:47] considered a minimum standard for a public street. And a lot of private streets in town are

[17:55] 24 feet as well. So, and those the private streets get reviewed by public services and

[18:00] fire also just for access for emergency needs. So, I'm thinking of that.

[18:07] That's just ruined.

[18:07] Oh, true court. Everything in River Bluff is states, which is the South Forty Brookview

[18:13] I can't think of anything else, how much I had or no,

[18:22] but.

[18:23] Anyone else?

[18:28] Okay, and there's no comments from the

[18:35] public.

[18:36] There's no comments from the public.

[18:38] The whole hearing will be closed, no further comments on this issue.

[18:40] If you've received the meeting, anyone providing comments should state their name and address.

[18:44] Since nobody did.

[18:46] And I please get a motion to close the public hearing.

[18:49] Motion to close.

[18:51] Thank you.

[18:51] There's a motion.

[18:52] There's a second.

[18:52] Thank you.

[18:55] On favor C.I.

[18:57] Hi.

[18:58] Okay, now the public hearings closed.

[19:00] Does anybody have any further questions?

[19:02] Is there any of this matter?

[19:06] Okay, in which case,

[19:07] could you get a motion to approve the plan residential development

[19:10] and for timber creek?

[19:13] I will make that motion.

[19:15] Thank you.

[19:15] Sure, is made a motion.

[19:16] Is there a second?

[19:17] Well, second.

[19:18] First is made a second.

[19:20] Any further discussion?

[19:22] All those in favor, C.I. and those opposed motion carries.

[19:30] Okay, Timber Creek Phase 5 Final Platte.

[19:35] Thank you.

[19:36] We have started talking about Timber Creek quite a bit and Phase 5.

[19:40] So a couple of refreshes of where we're at.

[19:42] So final plat is the last stage in the process.

[19:44] So this will be the last time the planning commission sees this request.

[19:47] It's been through several other versions.

[19:50] So Timber Creek started as property in Belgrant Township.

[19:53] We did annexation, but it didn't need a W and environmental assessment worksheet based

[19:58] on the number of lots that were here.

[20:00] Moved it through Carmset Plan for the Minary of Thought and Final Plant now five times.

[20:04] So here we are.

[20:05] Number five.

[20:07] So final plot is the last step in your review in the planning commission and city council

[20:11] process.

[20:12] I love to usually say there's little deviation from the preliminary plot.

[20:16] The deviation tonight is what we just reviewed with that PRD event, so it's a couple changes to those

[20:20] lots. The next up in final part is that the staff and the development team work on the developers

[20:25] agreement, we call it a DA for short, and it covers things like city fees, it's how we collect

[20:31] park dedication, stormwater area charges, siren fees, et cetera. It sets things like construction

[20:36] expectations, so it goes through construction hours, let's us know when people will be working,

[20:41] hall routes, how they're going to get materials to the site, warranties, timelines, it covers almost

[20:47] everything, but something always happens. It's really hard to make sure that it doesn't,

[20:53] so the DA is unsigned by the city and the developer and is recorded against the property.

[20:59] Once the developers agreement is signed, work can begin on the property.

[21:03] So

[21:08] some details about Timber Creek as a whole, it's again a PRD, we'll have a new amendment

[21:14] after the City Council reviews on July 1st.

[21:18] It was a really large site about 65 acres that developed with Lanar in total.

[21:23] It shook out to be 74 town homes with several single family homes.

[21:27] So you'll see the PUDs, a different way to say PRD, we'll just change that one corner

[21:34] that back based on planning commission review tonight,

[21:36] phase five is 50-3 single family homes.

[21:47] So the image on the screen right now is their phasing,

[21:49] so phase one is in the blue, so that included the town homes,

[21:52] single family homes in the expansion ironwood park.

[21:55] Phase two was the red, phase three in yellow,

[21:58] phase four in green, and then phase five

[22:00] is again this other late area here.

[22:06] The plot is on the screen now, so again a really technical document that shows

[22:09] outlots, easements, slot layout, et cetera.

[22:13] These are the same image just rotated.

[22:16] I know it can be tricky to look at these and get your bearings.

[22:18] So they're the same, they're not different.

[22:21] So you can see the access to a high view here,

[22:24] and then that shift that we just talked about with that PRD

[22:27] amendment.

[22:28] But in general, this is the layout of the 53 additional loss

[22:31] for a timber creek five.

[22:33] Erin, class, one question.

[22:35] For sure.

[22:35] So you mentioned, we made amendments

[22:38] to those corner lots, I'm going to put that in that grid you were just showing.

[22:43] Yep. Does that impact any other corner lot in this phase or is it specific to those

[22:48] lot numbers? It's specific to those lot numbers. Okay. So I write it in the updated

[22:53] PRD ordinance that it's just specific to block blank, blank, blank for those two. Thank you.

[23:02] Something we talked a little bit about but something I am personally really excited about is

[23:05] trail factor that comes in. So, we talked about that big group of even trail with fees for

[23:10] they started that construction, but fees vival also have that connection and the southern

[23:15] late area. Just a teaser, it may be our own ever coming to fruition, but if I say it here it

[23:20] might. That carver county is working on a regional trail to connect Carver to O'Conia and they

[23:25] started to eye this corridor as maybe an option to connect these two. So, we're working really closely

[23:30] with them to attempt to connect. That portion of our trail into the larger regional

[23:35] system. So you can see throughout the screen how it connects into the greater system. It'll

[23:39] be a really well connected neighborhood with a unique trail feature with the unimproved

[23:44] area along that ravine. Something that's always a little bit fun and interesting is a landscape

[23:50] plan. So throughout the project it's two guaranteed trees per lot and then some generous landscaping

[23:57] and other shared areas. So some versions there. A couple examples of what the homes look like

[24:04] out Timber Creek. So that is all I have for you. I'll open it up for discussion and comment.

[24:16] How much more to say we've been doing this for a long time?

[24:24] Anybody have any comments or questions?

[24:27] Yeah, have any of you guys question? So with a plaid fire there have been any

[24:30] discussion with adding satellite, green space or park or whatnot?

[24:35] So this is just eyeballing probably three core miles

[24:39] half a mile to the ironwood park.

[24:55] They're going to an

[25:04] awfully nice room.

[25:12] Is

[25:19] your timeline for this?

[25:22] They have already done the greeting.

[25:24] work. They did grading of four and five together. This has felt the least urgent that we've

[25:29] had linar, so I would say they might do some work this year, but I'd say next summer is

[25:34] probably when they'll start an earnest.

[25:40] It's a pretty good amount of information they need.

[25:44] All right. Let's move down to new business 5.2, United Properties Concept Plan Review.

[25:51] Do you need to approve a final plan?

[25:55] Where is it?

[25:57] I thought we had to wait for the...

[26:00] We can go ahead and approve it tonight.

[26:02] I think in motion to approve the final plan.

[26:03] I would like to approve the final plan.

[26:05] Final plan five.

[26:06] Timmer Creek.

[26:08] There's a motion.

[26:09] Second.

[26:10] I'll...

[26:10] No, you were a part of all of this.

[26:13] Yes.

[26:15] I'll check.

[26:17] There's a motion in a second to approve final plan for Timmer Creek five.

[26:22] Any further discussion?

[26:27] Who doesn't favor say aye?

[26:29] And opposed?

[26:31] Motion carries.

[26:34] Now we're going to move down to 5.2 United Properties Council Plan Review.

[26:40] I just have to say I told Tom that I thought we'd hit United Properties at 7.

[26:45] Man, that was pretty good.

[26:47] Yes, one minute.

[26:48] Time manager.

[26:49] Oh, okay.

[26:53] So tonight we just completed final plot, which is the last step in the process and now we are switching the concept plan, which is the first step in the process.

[27:01] So I want to be really clear that this is a step in the process where we don't know a lot of the details.

[27:07] You might be asking us a bunch of questions and we might say I don't know or I'll get back to you and we're not doing that to be coy or facetious.

[27:13] We truly don't know a lot of the details right now.

[27:15] So concept plan review, add a planning commission level, is feedback.

[27:19] It's an opportunity for you to give your ideas, your thoughts, your community knowledge to

[27:24] a developer that's looking to come into the community.

[27:27] It's also a great time to ask questions, Tom is here with you, 90 properties, who is the

[27:30] property owner.

[27:31] So I'll ask him to be part of the discussion once we get to that point too, to answer some

[27:35] questions.

[27:36] Erin is always available and then I am always here too.

[27:39] So, again, money unknowns, engineering has typically not started, so we don't know details

[27:45] about what size the pipe is going to be or how it's going to lay out.

[27:49] So again, big picture.

[27:51] This is cited for the U.S. City Council on July 1st, so if you're interested in watching it,

[27:55] move through the process, that's where the meeting will hit.

[27:58] This one is a little bit interesting.

[28:00] If you are on for the quick trip review, it's similar there or next steps are home town.

[28:05] So the property owner is the United Properties, the proposed user is Les Schwab.

[28:11] And we are potentially getting a member of the last swab team, but my Zoom keeps kicking me out.

[28:16] So I'm going to maybe be a little preoccupied by that if I keep looking at my screen.

[28:22] But we'll keep going.

[28:25] So talking about location, we are in, if you haven't been on the planning commission for a while,

[28:30] we call it card requirements. I don't know if anyone else does.

[28:33] But it's the property with quick trip, next up learning center, home town bank, a couple other users

[28:38] that can join our community once again.

[30:30] Okay, I fix it. We have to do this during COVID and I was so excited when we could stop and now it's back and it's all tricky. Okay, let's fire through.

[30:42] All right, so some site details and the conference of plan, which is on the previous screen, you can see it circled in red, which means the property is guided for commercial development.

[30:51] It's own freeway commercial, utilities are available through Monroe Drive.

[30:55] We've anticipated development on the site for a long time.

[30:59] We have planned for it.

[31:00] There are utilities available, something that's little interesting is that the streets are

[31:03] private throughout Carver Commons, so the city is not responsible for maintenance of them.

[31:09] So it's like a commercial, each way that takes care of them.

[31:12] There will be a new access with the site, which is really exciting.

[31:15] So there's access, obviously, from Monroe, moving south, but there will also be a slip

[31:19] from Jonathan Carver Parkway. Thinking through our freeway commercial district, permitted

[31:25] use is right up the Lush swab alley. Ooh, that was a cute car pun. Retail sales or personal

[31:31] service businesses involve repairing motor vehicles, et cetera, so they've reviewed of this

[31:36] information. Lush swab fits into this category with the vehicle size with the gross pounds.

[31:43] So I'm the screen now is the concept plan that United Properties, the property owner has

[31:46] submitted, so to get your bearings a little bit, I've labeled next steps quick trip and

[31:50] Tom Bank and Mokomanky.

[31:52] So as part of this application,

[31:53] the proposals for a construction of those private streets,

[31:56] as well as creating Black One,

[31:58] Lat One, that will potentially

[32:00] develop to be a Lashwob share the project

[32:02] continue to move forward.

[32:04] So part of the request tonight is reviewing

[32:06] those private streets reviewing that lot to be created

[32:09] to potentially be sold to Lashwob for development.

[32:14] Here it is imposed on the overall site plan or the site.

[32:20] You can see where the private street ducks in there, a little bit clearer, so it will be

[32:25] less probable access directly from the south from that slip right, and you can see that

[32:29] the private street goes straight up from quick trips to the straight north from quick trip and then

[32:33] over.

[32:35] We have also contemplated that slip right for a really long time, as part of the Jonathan Carver

[32:40] Parkway project, we worked really hard with Carver County to preserve this area that we wouldn't

[32:47] have to rip it up in a couple years when the property developed, so we worked really hard

[32:51] them to allow a slip right into the site, just knowing it would be commercial, that a secondary

[32:55] access would be really important. So you can see in the striping and in the curb work that

[32:59] it's already there, Carver County is aware of this project coming in. They will do full review

[33:04] at preliminary plot, but again, something we've planned for will not be a surprise for them.

[33:09] So it'll be an additional access into the Carver Common site. As I talk through it a couple of

[33:14] times, there still is developable space. So you can see the property north of hometown bank,

[33:20] will still be developable, and then outlaw A is the large site that will be the remainder of the site.

[33:26] Outlaw B is a pond, so that's not developable. And then there's a small site directly east of

[33:32] next step learning center that could develop.

[33:37] So some details of site plan for the last

[33:39] shrub site you can see other building will lay out potentially on the full site, so a north

[33:44] South orientation,

[33:47] and then some examples of other

[33:49] less shrubs in the greater United States.

[33:53] There are in a ton in the Minnesota market,

[33:55] but they're starting to infiltrate a bit more.

[33:57] There's one in more head.

[33:59] Apple Valley is going through a view at C.

[34:02] Go, there are several in South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana.

[34:06] So a couple of examples of what it will look like.

[34:13] So again, the site plan proposed by United

[34:14] Properties, showing that private street and then

[34:17] creation of Black One, that one.

[34:20] So Tom, do you mind coming up and introducing yourself

[34:22] to the group and we'll open it up?

[34:26] I'll have you press the button on the mic to turn it on.

[34:31] Good evening, everybody.

[34:33] Tom Strom, senior development manager of the United

[34:35] properties, it's not raining yet, so that's good news.

[34:40] Yeah, and excited to be here, so thanks for having me

[34:42] and here for any questions.

[34:48] Erin, I have one, I don't know if this is just a typo, but I just wanted to clarify.

[34:52] So in the right of the staff document, it's articulating that there's utility capacity for proposed homes.

[35:01] Oh yeah, that is a typo.

[35:03] I think that's a typo.

[35:03] It sure is.

[35:06] So I just wanted to clarify that.

[35:10] Any new commercial development I think is exciting in the city.

[35:15] The one thing that worries me is the visual appearance of the structure, especially coming down

[35:24] the JCP corridor, and how is the, it's hard with the preliminary picture that you have.

[35:31] You have a canopy that's on the street side.

[35:34] So what, is that like the finished side or front side of the building, or is that the,

[35:45] what

[35:45] to those pictures?

[35:48] Well, I don't know if Ron is on, Ron is not, he'd be more well-suited to probably describe.

[35:58] So it's a bit of a unique scenario here, right?

[36:00] We're the landowner.

[36:01] We're just, I don't know what ton about their project yet, so I don't have a good answer

[36:07] but from those questions, I think, or from those pictures that Aaron showed, I don't think

[36:13] we saw the canopy.

[36:18] So I would agree that orientation would be focused towards GCP just to get curve appeal where we can take a not look like parking.

[36:27] Also in our city code, there's a provision that says like the last line of the free commercial district is really helpful.

[36:35] So vehicles parked outside and awaiting service shall be considered as after storage and therefore shall be screened from public rights of way.

[36:41] So, cars won't be parked along JCP just for extended periods of time.

[36:47] So, my concern,

[36:51] you know, is there a retaining wall there?

[36:54] It's like, welcome, I think there's a big height difference in the street and the...

[37:01] Is it flat to the street or is there a retaining wall?

[37:05] I think it's pretty lit right at that right in.

[37:08] I think it's kind of the low point from the intersection, from Monroe between Monroe and the freeway.

[37:14] Probably I think that's probably the low spot so it's probably pretty close to

[37:19] and rate it. Your picture might show it to a construction picture.

[37:25] But to Tom's point I think it's pretty flat. It's pretty flat.

[37:28] But if there are things that would help so if it's like landscaping or other feedback you want to

[37:33] not necessarily at the time. Yeah, so my, can I reference another project? Sure. Okay, so

[37:42] visually it is hard to drive by where the veterinarian clinic is in, that building,

[37:53] because it's the back side of the building, it's not the front side of the building, and we drive

[37:59] by on the daily basis and see the ventilation equipment.

[38:03] It's going to get screened, but yes, continue.

[38:06] Okay, so it's, I mean, it's understandable to the ventilation equipment.

[38:10] So, but visually it's not attractive.

[38:12] And now we're going to put a fence around it,

[38:17] which probably, you know, it doesn't make it.

[38:19] It's going to be better.

[38:21] It'll be, but who wants to look at a fence driving down the main corridor?

[38:25] It'll be landscape to if that changes anything.

[38:28] That's perfect.

[38:28] Okay. And I know that one has been on my list too. It's been a requirement for them.

[38:33] So I just want to make sure that, you know, this is, I view this as the main road coming off the freeway into our town.

[38:43] And the things that are going to be present right off the freeway need to be visually appealing to welcome people in.

[38:52] So that would be my concern as how the building is positioned, the screening, that would

[38:59] be required if it's, you know, a company that is, you know, storing whatever.

[39:08] I just want to make sure that it's visually appealing and welcoming.

[39:12] Well, there will be, there will be adequate things, if that helps a lot.

[39:18] Yeah, no fair question right and then I know that was the meeting we had

[39:22] We're back at May we kind of had went through some of those same questions and

[39:26] Definitely we communicate that back to the to their team. Yeah

[39:31] If they're gonna store cars and then's the backside. I don't think having us either eat or eat foot fence going down

[39:37] Jcd for the length of the property is what we would want

[39:44] I have a general a united property's question. So a lot of people will come

[39:48] to us or city council or whoever they can say and say, I want a, fill in the link, I won't say.

[39:59] But how does the process work?

[40:01] Oh, it's a great question.

[40:05] It depends which day of the week, what the weather is like.

[40:09] I don't know.

[40:10] I mean, it's, you probably will maybe some of you don't know.

[40:14] He fell sted, had been at United Properties for 25 years, bought this land back in 2006.

[40:22] And I inherited that we call it Legacy Land.

[40:27] Depends on the spreadsheets.

[40:28] Usually, like, if you write red, like, figure this out.

[40:33] So in this case, sometimes we have a broker, you probably see the signs up there, right,

[40:38] week field, they may get a call directly from another broker saying, hey, in this case, this

[40:45] will happen.

[40:46] Saying, hey, we have a client that wants to buy some land from you, tell us what's available,

[40:52] et cetera, et cetera.

[40:53] In this case, we tried to do the deal directly.

[40:55] They already had a developer,

[40:59] so this for us is a land sale, and we're putting an infrastructure,

[41:03] So that's one scenario.

[41:07] Sometimes we might know a business owner.

[41:10] We've been working with several grossers for about a year now

[41:13] to try and land one of them here.

[41:16] So that's more of a personal relationship.

[41:17] You try and, you know, how are things going?

[41:20] Are you ready?

[41:21] You know, there's a lot of reason you should be telling.

[41:24] Yeah, we've told them that.

[41:27] And so it's kind of all of, sometimes it comes through the

[41:32] brokers, we've gotten some contacts from Erin and Brent at the city and we kind of follow up

[41:37] with them and see what that goes. So kind of all over, I don't know if that answers your

[41:42] question, but if you have interested in people that want to do certain things, happy to have

[41:46] conversation and see.

[41:48] I just think the education is good because a lot of people will be like, you know, if we get

[41:51] 58 is we're going to get whatever to come here. It just doesn't work. Yeah, it doesn't work

[41:57] that way. Like they don't feel the city's like putting the effort in.

[42:01] Right, right. I think we're correspondingly recently that we were tracking down a restaurant user and we're like great a lot of reason that we should be here

[42:14] They should be here, but they ran into different franchise restrictions and radiuses and so then yeah

[42:21] And some of the feedback referred is the daytime population for some users doesn't you know, so

[42:32] Do you mind coming up?

[42:33] Do you mind sharing a table of some?

[42:36] I can scoot over.

[42:41] My name is Matt Kerber.

[42:43] 365 and seven, the rebloid, Chaska, Minnesota.

[42:48] My wife and I own next steps.

[42:50] And to kind of piggyback, maybe on some of the comments,

[42:54] Tom made the road that you saw in the previous or in the next photo.

[43:01] I think oftentimes too, like, so if I were looking at this,

[43:06] when developing a new learning center, as you can tell, and I don't know, I think Keith was around when we did ours, right?

[43:14] So the first thing you're going to do is put it right up.

[43:17] You're going to want land right up next to a road, right?

[43:20] Less infrastructure cost to bring in water, road, all that kind of stuff.

[43:25] And, you know, you guys had kind of pushed back saying, well, we let you build right next to the road

[43:30] who's ever going to build behind you and we're like, perfect.

[43:32] Now we're negotiating, so they said, how about we push you back and we said, well, how about you build the road?

[43:39] And so there's always that back and forth. If this road gets put in, I will, I can almost guarantee the development itself will, will develop faster.

[43:52] And the infrastructure and the roads are the biggest things. Since they're not in there, a lot of people will look at it today and

[43:59] and press back there list.

[44:02] So this is going to change things, I think drastically.

[44:06] The reason I'm here, I'm so that the North and South section,

[44:13] there's quite a drop off right there.

[44:17] My question, like, what is happening with that?

[44:19] Is that getting leveled off?

[44:21] Is that going to follow the existing elevation?

[44:25] Or what is kind of the plan for that out?

[44:29] Yeah. Well, this is great. We're meeting tonight for the first time. Yeah, no, it's a

[44:35] fair question, right? Right where the kind of property line is there in the South

[44:39] Great drops. So we'll have to build build up that road. And we've kind of started with

[44:44] our civil engineering team to look at that. So we'll have to bring the great up a little

[44:50] bit and then figure out how that meets up over with the right in. So I'll have to bring

[44:55] elevation up. Yeah.

[45:00] Do you want to add anything? Yeah, I would, I just add that once, once they get into preliminary

[45:05] plaats, I suspect that you guys will look at grading from kind of a comprehensive level for

[45:10] the kind of the build on the site. You can see that at this point, the whole thing is kind of

[45:16] contributing so they have all that A is kind of the northwest corner. So I'm guessing that

[45:22] time civil engineering team will kind of lay out kind of a conceptual grading plan for the

[45:27] entire balance of the development, which will then dictate their street grades for that

[45:33] L shape that would be installed in this phase. So, I don't have any concerns with that,

[45:40] it'll get feared out and they'll be able to set a street grade L complement kind of the future

[45:45] build out of the of the development. But, good, very good question and for sure be reviewing that

[45:53] to make sure everything fits well, going forward, so.

[45:57] Also, thanks for the candid information.

[46:00] I think it's always helpful.

[46:01] We say a lot of those things

[46:02] at the planning commission level that it's a broker,

[46:05] and it's a little indoner, but curing it

[46:06] from two people that do that work is really helpful.

[46:10] I just told him to call Aaron.

[46:15] I really appreciate you stepping forward.

[46:17] First, congratulations on your business

[46:20] and that it's successful. That's fantastic. And I liked your comment because I wasn't thinking

[46:25] like that, but you're probably right. We get this job developed in the rest of this corner

[46:31] while we'll take off.

[46:35] I mean, Canada, that's always the balance of speed to market is important. And that is one

[46:43] thing we've heard about our site compared to some other ones. And so we're kind of excited to

[46:49] extend those, the streets, the sidewalks, the trails, the utilities, so that when the next person

[46:54] comes in or the L.O.I. comes across our desk, it's more certainty, timing and cost and

[47:01] all that stuff.

[47:03] So, I just want to add, the right in there is obviously just one way until it gets wider

[47:10] and I believe that that serves as kind of a right in for trucks as well, but they all have

[47:15] to go back out to the, to Monroe through the main North South Road.

[47:23] When we go to like concept, what kind of like economic modeling and stuff has been done

[47:28] like by this specific company would be like, this is a good idea for cardboard, because I feel

[47:33] like there's been a lot of similar type, not a lot, but a couple in the area that have gone

[47:39] out of business in the past couple years, like if I just think to your point like, this

[47:44] It's like right off the freeway, this is karma, it wouldn't be ideal, right, that it would not be in business in a couple years, which I know is not ideal for anybody,

[47:57] but what kind of economic modeling if they don't to be like, yeah, this is where we want to build.

[48:04] I think it depends on the, I mean, this is a, I know they're newer to this market, but they, you know, do stuff around the country. So they have a, I'm sure they have their own kind of robust site selection criteria in terms of trips and visibility and population growth.

[48:20] And traffic and this.

[48:22] In distance to other, you know, centers.

[48:26] Oh, I can theory all of that's been done before they

[48:29] Yes.

[48:30] Correct.

[48:32] Yeah.

[48:33] You have to remember, too.

[48:35] This is kind of a crossroads.

[48:37] It's 212 going east and west.

[48:39] You also have 11 going north and south.

[48:42] So it kind of can accept a pretty good market.

[48:45] Yeah.

[48:45] It's a great location.

[48:46] I was just wondering, like, is this like, we're thinking about it.

[48:51] Let's put it out.

[48:52] There's a concept plan.

[48:53] Or there's been, like, economic modeling and that sort of stuff done.

[48:56] by their team.

[48:58] We are a really friendly group at City Hall, but we typically don't like to get an application

[49:03] to you until it feels like they have some skin in the game or like they're working towards

[49:07] a project.

[49:09] So, we have a lot of meetings with people who say, I love coffee, can I open a coffee shop,

[49:13] and it's like, yeah, here are the 10 things that you'd have to think about.

[49:18] Sometimes they come back for a second meeting, sometimes they don't, but to get to this

[49:21] level, they have engaged with an engineering team at this point.

[49:25] So, should feedback be favorable from planning commission in City Council, and if they can

[49:30] accommodate some of those questions that we have, they likely will move forward with

[49:34] preliminary a plan, which is why there's a substantial investment into the project.

[49:38] I think that Ron, from Ashwab, just joined the Zoom.

[49:46] Hi, Ron.

[49:48] Thanks for joining us.

[49:48] I just gave a presentation. Tom is with us. He's at a microphone. So the

[49:55] planning commission is just asking questions now. So if you don't mind we'll

[49:57] do a little bit of a Q&A with you. Do you mind giving just a quick overview of

[50:03] our shop, the process where you're at?

[50:07] Yes, so I'm going to sit down here. So we're in

[50:11] the worst and the prepare

[50:16] preliminary, some middle. Does that what you call it?

[50:20] for the owner of flat.

[50:26] You don't get the intelligent process

[50:28] even forward.

[50:32] I don't know.

[50:35] Could you give us a little background on

[50:37] my Shrobs specifically?

[50:39] Yes, one here.

[50:41] I ask the notes.

[50:44] Ron's likely calling us from beautiful bosom

[50:46] on my tannas.

[50:46] So I always have to remind us of that

[50:48] when I talk to him.

[50:49] Because I'm, well,

[50:51] I really like the,

[50:54] I'm in the,

[50:57] uh,

[50:57] uh, come on over.

[50:58] Yeah.

[51:00] I'm supposed to get back to those in late tonight,

[51:06] here we go, let's try it.

[51:08] So you're less sure I was founded in 1952,

[51:15] in expanding service ever since.

[51:17] They're in a point in your company right now, where they're expanding service in the Minnesota.

[51:23] They love the customer service, it's one of their key, very key components of the company.

[51:30] They're promote from within company, they are

[51:37] proposing that believe it's the seven

[51:39] bay of linear retail

[51:44] tires, you know, break, so I know that oil changes are the major services

[51:50] they provide.

[51:55] In six days a week, 80m to six p.m. close on Sundays, one could be completed within each bay

[52:02] on this project, so in this bay is that's where it work, it's included, I believe there

[52:08] on this project, there is an exterior canopy there on the east side of the store.

[52:14] It

[52:16] can have to be that square little service like boat trailers from motorhome.

[52:21] Those types of vehicles that can't go into the bay.

[52:26] You know, when the work being completed in the bay is that keeps noise levels at minimum.

[52:33] We don't store outside the building.

[52:45] They don't want to think about deliveries.

[52:47] They've heard about once a week.

[52:49] And thus, that tires get picked up on once a week.

[52:57] Great.

[52:57] I'm going to open it up for questions specifically for Ron now.

[53:00] If that's okay with the group.

[53:03] Ron, Ron, this is Sherry Walsh.

[53:07] Can you help me understand the reasoning of the location of the canopy on the east side,

[53:11] versus flipping the structure?

[53:15] I think the reasoning for that is just for how the trucks need to travel through the site,

[53:21] was that provides the safest, more accommodating route to the site, so your factory and

[53:29] those things are, there's a semi-track, we'll come through the site, you know, for the

[53:35] delivery.

[53:39] And Dick likes to run around the building, you know, the canopy there in the

[53:44] east side and they, you know, you know, quiet wants the showroom facing, facing the

[53:55] Where are the tires stored,

[54:01] the use tires that they're going to hollow it?

[54:03] Is this, I think you can see it on a site's lately.

[54:08] Now this site, you see it on the north side, is it just a, is there any, you see it, you see

[54:13] it's already a full ration closure, there's a larger tank unit, yeah, yeah, it's called a full

[54:20] pack.

[54:21] That's called the external full pack, that's where the spent tires get stored and they

[54:26] I think that once a week, you know, that's a six-foot high minimum enclosure, so it's

[54:33] fully screened on a concrete pattern.

[54:44] Questions?

[54:45] I have a question.

[54:46] So, Chris, to go down, how many employees are planned to work here?

[54:52] So seven days, this is a seven day, you know, on a given day to about 10 employees?

[55:08] Eric Danzky?

[55:10] Ron, this is Eric Danzky.

[55:12] As far as the location, a lot one block one.

[55:16] I see those advantages for that position.

[55:20] Is there any discussion or amenable to other locations in this area?

[55:25] You know, somewhere specifically.

[55:26] and a lot, hey, you know, you know, I know more about locations of

[55:33] the discussed, but now this location is really the focal point right now. Is it a

[55:40] common all or nothing? You have this black one or nothing?

[55:46] You know, that's a question, you know, this is the, this is the, this is the

[55:55] Yeah, so I guess, I'll just add, I think that's what we cite when, so yeah, yeah, so good question,

[56:12] it's a negotiation, right?

[56:13] I think between landseller and buyer, and this one, and trying to move them into different parts of the site,

[56:21] I'm trying to look at you, but I'm not talking about myself.

[56:26] So, I think that, you know, while we were approached about this, we said, you can go here, you can go here, you can go here.

[56:36] I think a lot of people want to be on the kind of that visibility on that portion of the site, and I think that's why they landed on that site.

[56:45] So, I probably doesn't answer your entire question,

[56:54] but...

[56:59] way look like

[57:03] on the west side of this. So whatever you see, you know, the next

[57:09] lap that solves, what does that drive look like between the properties?

[57:15] Kind of that 30 foot shared, if you go back to that other plan, you're like

[57:23] right, it like straddles the versus 30, is this a 30 foot shared access, like

[57:29] drive so there'd be like a drive aisle north south between lush swabs parcel, you know, half

[57:37] on that parcel and half on the future parcel to the west of it. That's great,

[57:46] Tom. So

[57:47] it's about 15 foot you say the problem you're

[57:53] on. And it's be a paved, like a paved drive lane.

[57:59] Okay, this is Cindy Muram, the chair of the planning commission. And I'm curious, this 40 foot

[58:04] is that open air that you're going to be working on vehicles?

[58:10] The 40 foot canopy?

[58:12] Yeah, under the 40 foot canopy, is it open air?

[58:15] Yeah, a critical canopy is open air there on the east side.

[58:23] However, there are things we can do to change it based on zoning code.

[58:27] I think our concern is, at least the feeling I'm getting from the commission is that our concern is that we would prefer that the front of your building is facing is facing the road as that's just coming into Carver.

[58:48] But is there, and you had said that the owner wants to have the, the, the, the Bay areas facing west is, is that for a certain reason or?

[59:01] It is still lying that share drive.

[59:04] You know, that's where customers, you know, folks are going to be driving north.

[59:08] Yeah.

[59:09] the screen and you know that's they're going to see the show room or the main you

[59:15] know like the 88 Parking will be clearly shown that's it's just be right there

[59:21] I'm sorry I'm sorry are you talking about off the street of the shared access

[59:25] yes okay because I'm talking about kind of a 11 okay yeah

[59:34] I believe there's a great change in there where you start up high and so they'll be looking down right.

[59:42] So on this time, I don't remember when you joined or didn't join, I think Commission member Walsh asked,

[59:50] really kind of what's the front of the building, what's the back of the building,

[59:52] and I think the concern really is that this is the kind of front entry to the car.

[1:00:00] For if you will, right? And I think I heard you say before that the way you've laid it out now, really, is kind of a facilitates

[1:00:08] vehicular movement, the best, right? In terms of coming off the shared drive and getting to the parking, as well as the loading and unloading of deliveries, or, you know, trash removal.

[1:00:24] Oh, maybe we could have some landscape screening on that east side.

[1:00:32] You know,

[1:00:35] that's a good idea on the east side.

[1:00:38] There's a green and a hand-slandsgiving plan that you said.

[1:00:44] And we're at now in the process.

[1:00:46] Your feedback could be explore flipping the building.

[1:00:49] What would that look like?

[1:00:50] I don't know if we'll come back and say yes, it works out perfectly,

[1:00:52] but we can explore it and see if it's an option. I would like, I would like that.

[1:00:57] Yeah, yeah.

[1:00:58] Ron, this is Sherry.

[1:00:59] Hi.

[1:01:00] Hi.

[1:01:01] So Sherry Walsh, Tom referenced me.

[1:01:04] So here's my concern.

[1:01:05] I'm just seeing, um,

[1:01:08] in here.

[1:01:09] So this is the, and I view this as the entry point into the city of Carver.

[1:01:16] Okay.

[1:01:16] And this is going to be the first property that people are going to see coming south from

[1:01:22] 2012. And my preference would be that they're not looking at the back of a building. They don't

[1:01:28] see a bullpen that 60 feet long and 20 feet deep that is storing spent tires. That's my concern.

[1:01:39] We want to make sure that we're presenting Carver as a welcoming, you know, environment and talent.

[1:01:47] So, my concern, I didn't understand what the canopy was, not that you've explained that

[1:01:53] there's going to be vehicle maintenance in an open air canopy.

[1:01:56] That doesn't give me the warm welcome aesthetic look that I think our town would want.

[1:02:07] If you flipped the property, spun it around 180, I think there's, that would look nice.

[1:02:17] It's just my two sons.

[1:02:20] All right.

[1:02:21] I think there might be consensus here on the commission that's, I know, or the board that's kind of what we're looking for.

[1:02:35] That's something that's something that you go back to the team on and you get some additional thoughts.

[1:02:41] Are there any considerations with building materials?

[1:02:45] I mean, in the enhanced landscaping plan on the north side and the side.

[1:02:52] Because there are options for building materials for the bullpen and the trash enclosure.

[1:02:59] We're looking at some photos of some of your other locations, and I don't see, sir, one with the Sam can't be right here.

[1:03:13] It's quite really hard.

[1:03:16] Oh, yes.

[1:03:18] I guess I can see it sort of.

[1:03:20] Yeah.

[1:03:21] Yeah.

[1:03:22] Yeah, depending on which one we should, geográfic location you're looking at, and

[1:03:26] it's all based on Tony code, which project it's used.

[1:03:30] Okay.

[1:03:31] So, the steel siding look is not my favorite, I'll be honest, but Erin, don't we have, yeah,

[1:03:42] the city for articulates what they need to, correct.

[1:03:45] Yep.

[1:03:46] Build from.

[1:03:48] Okay, well you can work with our team right now.

[1:03:52] Oh yes.

[1:03:52] Yeah.

[1:03:54] Yeah.

[1:03:55] So I think we'll we'll hot a lot next week.

[1:03:58] And kind of talk about like Ron said to go back to his client and talk about, you know, comments.

[1:04:04] Can we flip it?

[1:04:05] Can we rotate?

[1:04:05] How does that impact their operations?

[1:04:08] And then yeah, we'll work.

[1:04:09] Because then we plan to submit for the next.

[1:04:12] The next, the next, the beautiful roadmap thing.

[1:04:15] The next phase.

[1:04:16] I think it was like mid-July to get on for mid-August and then commissioned, so you got

[1:04:24] some time?

[1:04:25] Yeah.

[1:04:26] It's another question for Ron.

[1:04:28] Um, some of the market research is seven-day kind of sweet spot for the market or seven-day

[1:04:34] just based on the life that's available and you just kind of, that's kind of both correct

[1:04:40] assumptions, meaning the sweet spot, construction costs, and that.

[1:04:45] So that's the 7th day right now for us a couple years is kind of what they really like to see, especially, they like some time, you know, for contractors, they're finding, you know, they use the same contractor to save a build 3, you know, 3 different sites, it's just, you know, health administration costs, yeah, sweet spot being a good way to define it.

[1:05:11] Okay, is it more curious if you had a bigger life if you'd want to go bigger?

[1:05:16] Yeah.

[1:05:18] One more question.

[1:05:19] You have residential across this.

[1:05:24] Is the work on the vehicles done with the doors closed?

[1:05:29] Or we're going to have a noise issue with the air guns doing the lug nuts and all that?

[1:05:37] Yeah.

[1:05:39] I have some noise.

[1:05:40] templates but I don't know how I'm ready for this right here but you know the

[1:05:47] you know the you know the decibel level you got that decent there's a kind of

[1:05:51] major that highway to these you know mix with that sound and the you know the

[1:05:59] work that you described there at the building no you know the doors would be

[1:06:03] Doors usually are closed for young operations, but yeah, you have the comparison that

[1:06:13] do you pretty similar, you know, it does a full level sounds.

[1:06:17] I mean, I will say if there's a, again, go back to work hours, we always said ADM, PIPM

[1:06:24] and you know, close on Sundays. So thank you. Thank you very much.

[1:06:31] And I have an earring, I have to sound, you know, sound, noise,

[1:06:40] these are the things that we can provide.

[1:06:42] That'd be great.

[1:06:45] Any other feedback or questions for Ron?

[1:06:49] Thanks for calling in, Ron.

[1:06:51] That was super helpful.

[1:06:52] Thank you.

[1:06:52] Yeah, thank you for letting me.

[1:06:55] We usually like to be a person.

[1:06:57] Because we got a lot of three days.

[1:06:59] It's been crazy so far.

[1:07:02] All right.

[1:07:02] We'll save travels.

[1:07:03] All right, I appreciate it.

[1:07:05] Thank you.

[1:07:05] Thanks, all.

[1:07:10] OK, so the next step is, yes, what is it?

[1:07:16] We will all get together.

[1:07:18] We'll talk about it.

[1:07:18] We'll talk through some options.

[1:07:20] No matter what we decide, I'll come back with.

[1:07:22] I think how we are in a very good point about noise.

[1:07:24] So to open bay,

[1:07:29] we'd really check the noise.

[1:07:33] Anything else for a time?

[1:07:35] No, thank you, Tom.

[1:07:36] Oh, God.

[1:07:37] Eric?

[1:07:38] I just got another new guy question.

[1:07:40] So it's a lot, one, one, one.

[1:07:42] Is that been zoned by the city?

[1:07:45] And where is that just kind of a dimension

[1:07:47] on size that came up

[1:07:52] for you to read?

[1:07:52] The size, where is that?

[1:07:53] Yeah, like the actual dimension is a layout of the depth

[1:07:57] and fit in something, the city's determined?

[1:07:59] The dimensions and the dimensions and size

[1:08:04] of the parsa boundary were kind of driven by a less Schwab.

[1:08:08] Yeah.

[1:08:09] So the city is constraining you too.

[1:08:10] Right currently, all of that is all part of Outlot A.

[1:08:16] Yeah, so Outlot B currently is in an easement.

[1:08:21] And so, yeah, the next phase, it's a fair question, right?

[1:08:24] Is getting back to you.

[1:08:25] When are your questions earlier?

[1:08:26] The process, right now there's one big chunk of land,

[1:08:30] right now we're kind of asking, let's extend the utilities in the streets

[1:08:33] and then carve out a little chunk.

[1:08:40] Right.

[1:08:40] It's like bees out like bees the fact correct that's a pond

[1:08:47] Colleagues and easement. Yes, and we're gonna convey that with yeah, yeah

[1:08:52] To an allot. Yep, hold on one sec go ahead Lincoln. I just real quickly had a question on that road

[1:09:00] There's just an in only just a and basing your picture

[1:09:05] and driving on any of the things.

[1:09:07] So there's two lights right in the middle of the sidewalk.

[1:09:09] And having experience taking a right on one of those before.

[1:09:13] And is there space to put nights and just put that stuff on me

[1:09:17] going to tear it up?

[1:09:18] What is there space for like a right game?

[1:09:20] Turn it only.

[1:09:21] I soon sometimes won't be a weird move through that right turn.

[1:09:25] But yeah, if you're, if you're going to take a right there,

[1:09:28] and off the camera's over here, they're coming out of the sidewalk.

[1:09:31] Now I'm stopping.

[1:09:32] Perfect.

[1:09:33] Behind the end, everybody's definitely just asking for that kind of right off the highway.

[1:09:38] I feel like I've driven through tons of those scenarios for instance.

[1:09:41] Unless there's a right hand turnway, you can just go a little more space to let the people vibe to the distance.

[1:09:48] First, then you're on that alone.

[1:09:50] I don't want to see space here without a turn up the rest area there because the first thought is supposedly only two lines there.

[1:10:00] And this area is growing like crazy.

[1:10:01] that's coming right off the highway seems like that's gonna be a convenient load of this area they're going 50 miles an hour yeah yeah yeah I'll take this one so this was

[1:10:15] set up when we did John think our parkway with Colony this is actually gonna be a turn lane so this is the taper for the turn lane

[1:10:24] And this is the stacking distance for the term line right here.

[1:10:28] So the entrance is actually going to be like right down here,

[1:10:32] like at the end of the right, so this is a,

[1:10:34] this will be a legitimate county right hand term,

[1:10:39] which I'm going to have to turn out of the right through the line.

[1:10:43] It'll be a right term line.

[1:10:45] Yeah, we can have that line.

[1:10:46] Yeah, that's true.

[1:10:49] And the other extension thought, obviously, I think flipping this whole,

[1:10:53] We'll need to the one I thought maybe they want the sunset to be at the end of their day a little bit.

[1:10:59] I was like, that seems odd.

[1:11:00] That makes a lot of sense.

[1:11:01] We're working with Latina.

[1:11:03] And then you open those doors.

[1:11:04] That sounds like a great work in the park.

[1:11:08] But in flipping that around,

[1:11:10] it feels like it ends out to that get complicated.

[1:11:13] But we're that open as something that probably did really nicely.

[1:11:16] If you've been in the Main Street where they have like old town Main Street,

[1:11:19] I'm probably can just did a really big new,

[1:11:23] They put a huge round about there, and then they did all of this.

[1:11:26] Meetings stuff, what they didn't own, the older buildings.

[1:11:30] That quite frankly, it was an eye serving.

[1:11:31] It was like a two-shirt stuff.

[1:11:33] As they had a little hardest to, like,

[1:11:34] a beautiful mural on it, it's just like,

[1:11:36] live them down the street.

[1:11:38] It's, it's, it's, you should, if you're in front of,

[1:11:40] like, you can't live this different, it means street.

[1:11:41] But my thought was that both in area,

[1:11:43] because I'm trying to think like, what else would we put there?

[1:11:46] I would look nicer as if we get to choose.

[1:11:48] Right?

[1:11:48] I don't think you're, your comments really well,

[1:11:51] nature is like maybe with that whole kind of, is it's combination between, you know,

[1:11:57] this client and the city or whoever wants to pay for it, that's gonna go shoot tonight, probably

[1:12:02] will not be in.

[1:12:03] But that whole community, maybe that's like an angle corner area where that whole kind

[1:12:08] of is covered by a really nice stamped concrete or something that then, although card is painted

[1:12:13] really beautiful, you're on, that is probably city, but we're not covering a entire store

[1:12:18] I don't know if I can't be as it is, but again, I'm very like, I'm a little huff and garlic.

[1:12:24] It is like really unified with looking to the downtown city.

[1:12:28] That was a lot of six weeks coming up.

[1:12:31] They still get their voice to put their tires.

[1:12:34] Maybe it's been kind of like a really show we never have to see in the pile of new different,

[1:12:38] you know, ladies and gentlemen.

[1:12:41] You can put your car for crossing sign there or whatever you've made the development.

[1:12:46] And put like, car for comments, yeah.

[1:12:47] Whatever business is in there.

[1:12:49] or a welcome to cover sign on the back side of it.

[1:12:57] Matt, I'm sorry to be a pain,

[1:12:58] but can you come up to a microphone?

[1:13:02] Matt Kerber, again,

[1:13:03] three, six, nine, seven,

[1:13:05] three, boy, Chaskin' Minnesota.

[1:13:07] Sometimes just asking,

[1:13:09] hey, how about not putting the canopy?

[1:13:11] On this building works.

[1:13:14] But so that's,

[1:13:15] because I'm sure they have a lot of designs too,

[1:13:19] but also,

[1:13:20] I noticed on my way here,

[1:13:22] there's a pond of water right now where that is built.

[1:13:24] is that a wet land, is that getting reclaimed somewhere else

[1:13:28] how is that working?

[1:13:30] The site shouldn't be wet unless it's just rain.

[1:13:34] There's quite a pile, or a plate on right there,

[1:13:37] like literally where the building was.

[1:13:40] But that exact spot?

[1:13:42] It's a low spot, and I know asking the last several months

[1:13:46] our civil engineering team to work through,

[1:13:49] is it, or is it not a wetland?

[1:13:50] And I think there is an email or from our team basically kind of communicate to me it's not technically well on so it might just be some standing water

[1:14:01] But given comments a low spot

[1:14:06] Not really any place for water and go right now

[1:14:10] It's not going into the earth. It's just saturating

[1:14:13] In a plethora. I think Ron's not on anymore, I don't think but

[1:14:19] Ron's team and our civil team as we look through is Aaron said kind of a broader grading plan and figure out how topography goes.

[1:14:30] Especially as it relates to the building, the canopy and then the bullpen.

[1:14:34] I think grade will probably come up a little bit.

[1:14:38] I think that's one thing we'll look at but I think is you're coming south that might be a little bit more shielded by some of the

[1:14:46] the topography of it. So we can kind of maybe see if our teams can figure out what that would look like.

[1:14:54] Build it into a hill. Yeah, I think we won't be totally buried, but I think.

[1:15:00] Great, does start to come up. And so one of the things, Les Schwab's, Ron's team left to look at is, is that enclosure acting is somewhat irritating.

[1:15:09] Well, anyways, I just don't know that. Yeah. Okay. I was surprised to hear Ron say that it was like they wanted the front of their building to be the back towards the freeway, because I would think you would want it for like visibility to more people.

[1:15:23] you would want the front to face.

[1:15:25] He doesn't seem like what I thought what he was saying

[1:15:28] was that he wants a visibility from the road

[1:15:30] that's inside the development.

[1:15:33] So when people drive in, they can see,

[1:15:35] oh, this is where I need to go and get my tires.

[1:15:38] I think that's like not somewhere you typically drive

[1:15:40] unless you're purposefully.

[1:15:43] Like it's not like a, well, and also like,

[1:15:45] you know what, I should stop.

[1:15:46] Also, he wants to building like that

[1:15:48] because it's easier for the bigots to get angle.

[1:15:51] That one makes sense.

[1:15:52] when you was paying for visibility, it feels like if you flipped it, the visibility would increase substantially.

[1:16:00] Well, it's probably counting on signs for that. Maybe.

[1:16:04] We can do that next.

[1:16:09] All right, anybody else have?

[1:16:12] Maybe you could put it in the big, sorry one.

[1:16:15] Yes, maybe.

[1:16:25] You have some marching orders there.

[1:16:28] Thank you.

[1:16:29] You're welcome.

[1:16:30] Thanks, Sam.

[1:16:31] Yeah, thanks very much, Tom.

[1:16:36] We're going to move on now.

[1:16:37] We're going to move on to the sign ordinance,

[1:16:39] because that is going to be so much fun.

[1:16:41] Do you mind?

[1:16:42] Would it be okay if we did communications and then the sign ordinance

[1:16:44] because it's Erin's birthday, and I want him to be able to leave.

[1:16:48] No.

[1:16:50] I want no objects.

[1:16:51] Thank you.

[1:16:52] Yeah.

[1:16:52] Let's do that.

[1:16:53] Okay.

[1:16:54] We'll move to communications.

[1:16:55] I have a couple things, and then I suspect some people might have some questions related

[1:16:58] to the flooding.

[1:17:01] Number one.

[1:17:02] Alliance Park Pickleball courts are under construction, hoping to have them open in the next

[1:17:07] couple months, so that whole site looks really different right now.

[1:17:11] We finally got our DNR grant agreement back for Creekside Park, so we're bringing plans and specs through time you can leave too, you don't have to stay if you don't want to.

[1:17:26] Okay, we're working on plans and specs for Creekside Park, which is the new dog park pickable at the corner of JCP and corner of 40.

[1:17:33] Wait, did you say dog park and pickable?

[1:17:35] Yeah.

[1:17:36] Oh my goodness.

[1:17:37] No no.

[1:17:37] The grants for both now.

[1:17:39] The grant covers both, yes.

[1:17:40] Yep.

[1:17:41] Wow.

[1:17:42] That's great.

[1:17:43] Yeah. Yeah. Creek side. Yeah. Okay.

[1:17:47] $350,000. We got that grant from the DNR. Wow, this is so fun.

[1:17:51] Because you all know about it. But this is like a replay of joy.

[1:17:56] At the July 18th, planning commission meeting, I'm anticipating a large industrial user with

[1:18:01] United Properties, not Tom, but one of his partners that doesn't industrial work.

[1:18:06] Are they proposing roughly 300,000 square feet of an industrial user in your fleet farm?

[1:18:11] It's huge. Yeah, so the property will need to be annexed in the city. We'll do several reviews.

[1:18:16] Any A, W, will be required in environmental assessment or cheat based on the size.

[1:18:21] The Wickenhouser piece, which is the long stretch along 11 north of fleet farm, north east,

[1:18:27] will be before the council for annexation on July 1st.

[1:18:32] What's on that?

[1:18:34] Yeah.

[1:18:38] It's the North, North, North, North, North, North, East, the flee farm?

[1:18:43] Oh, oh, no, I see.

[1:18:45] Oh, no, I see.

[1:18:46] I see.

[1:18:47] Oh, no, flee farm, flee farm is my main state, the final.

[1:18:52] So that property, the school district is working potentially in our transportation facility

[1:18:58] on roughly 20 acres leaving about 60 for development on the Wicked Hazard piece.

[1:19:03] I'm town bank right now is targeting an august 9th opening.

[1:19:07] I'm sorry, what did you just say?

[1:19:10] I'm town.

[1:19:11] I'm town's opening one.

[1:19:12] Hopefully, august 9th.

[1:19:15] Did you get tangled up in the wick and hazard?

[1:19:18] Yeah.

[1:19:19] Once I said it, it made sense of it.

[1:19:21] It needs to be annexed and zoned and it's not zoned yet.

[1:19:24] Correct.

[1:19:24] You got that.

[1:19:26] And then Carver Oaks, which is the last CDA project.

[1:19:29] They're 43 senior specific.

[1:19:31] near-cover comments and cover place is in for preliminary

[1:19:35] a plot review so I'll anticipate probably a late summer early fall

[1:19:39] review of preliminary a plot by this group. Okay the birthday boy if you have

[1:19:44] questions about flooding related to Main Street or community feel free

[1:19:48] but what I'm not.

[1:19:52] She has given up date yeah okay so obviously is everybody

[1:19:58] knows the river's coming up pretty quickly with all this rain so we have a

[1:20:03] a really nice team of established here at the city at a staff level, so it includes Brent

[1:20:08] Merrick, Allsholts, Eric Menth, Kelly Trimbo, and myself, and we're in pretty much

[1:20:15] consequence of communication with each other on multiple times a day, and we have a nice

[1:20:20] plan and place right now, today as many of you know, Main Street Bridge is closed, so it may

[1:20:28] not look like it right now that the water is not very close to the bridge level, but with

[1:20:33] current projections that the National Weather Service is forecasting for next week, that

[1:20:39] main street bridge could potentially be underwater by middle of next week.

[1:20:45] So we are monitoring that on a daily basis.

[1:20:48] We have an action plan in place just for some perspective, the river gauge in Jordan, which

[1:20:55] is what we monitor.

[1:20:57] That's at about 26.7 feet right now.

[1:21:00] And they're projecting a crest right now of 32.8 feet.

[1:21:07] So for some perspective, that's about a 50-year flood elevation,

[1:21:12] which is that 32.85.

[1:21:16] The 100-year flood is a 34.85.

[1:21:19] So that would still be about 2 feet below the 100-year flood

[1:21:22] and just over 2 feet below the 1965 flood.

[1:21:26] So it's definitely a serious flooding issue,

[1:21:31] but I think we have a good plan in place.

[1:21:34] We have a nice kind of procedure spreadsheet

[1:21:36] with when we hit this elevation,

[1:21:38] we have to do this, you know,

[1:21:40] and we just kind of step through it.

[1:21:41] Are we going to have any levy patrols?

[1:21:45] That's a good question.

[1:21:47] We haven't had to do that yet,

[1:21:48] but if it gets high enough,

[1:21:50] we might have to think about doing that.

[1:21:53] So, I'm family, you call me.

[1:21:59] How are the businesses affected in that area or homes?

[1:22:04] So, no business access is closed off directly, but obviously the inconvenience that

[1:22:11] having mainstream closed, that is unfortunate, but we have detour signs, so the detour

[1:22:17] is forced street to Jordan since, so basically you just have to get around that piece of the

[1:22:23] mainstream.

[1:22:23] So we have covered business alliance tomorrow. So we invite all small businesses in Carver to come have our own table with staff in the mayor

[1:22:32] So we'll give the same update and probably look for some feedback from them if we can help what they're seeing hearing etc

[1:22:38] But none of them have said they have water in places. They don't want water. Not that we've heard yet

[1:22:48] Awesome

[1:22:52] Yeah, so

[1:22:57] Yeah, so the national weather forecast projections, it does use that to calculate in it, but

[1:23:05] you know, if we get another interrain than what we're having in the forecast now, it's

[1:23:10] going to change, obviously.

[1:23:11] So we've seen this, the projection fluctuate upwards of two feet just in the last couple

[1:23:17] of days, just up and down, so it's constantly being recalculated, anyone could look at this.

[1:23:22] If you go to the National Weather Service web page, and there's a link called River

[1:23:27] Forecast.

[1:23:28] And you can just click on the gauge for Jordan Minnesota.

[1:23:31] You can watch it.

[1:23:32] They have a nice graph and shows exactly what they're projecting for the next 14 days.

[1:23:38] So it's really nice and rain.

[1:23:42] That's a lot of rain.

[1:23:44] Yeah.

[1:23:45] Because if it rains here, it's basically through the system.

[1:23:48] It's everything that's upstream of us that's going to take while to get here.

[1:23:52] That's why it's not going to it's not projected to crescent till the 26th of June right now

[1:23:57] So

[1:24:00] so

[1:24:01] We shouldn't plan on a canoe trip

[1:24:06] It's not rapid to be a lot of flow. So

[1:24:11] Any other questions?

[1:24:13] Thank you very much, Erin

[1:24:17] There's no more water. Um, well

[1:24:20] Yeah, good point, but it's it's gonna be

[1:24:23] Okay, if it doesn't crest until the 26, I could see it going another week after that.

[1:24:32] We'll have to see, we'll just have to keep watching it, but we can't really take it down until we feel it's safe to let it go.

[1:24:41] Is that the same bridge they're doing work on?

[1:24:44] No, that's at the third street.

[1:24:47] So that's one bridge up from third, or one bridge down the street of third.

[1:24:52] So when do we run out of bridges?

[1:24:55] So very good point.

[1:24:58] So the third street bridge would be at an elevation of about 34 feet.

[1:25:05] So we could potentially have to close the third street bridge

[1:25:08] if these projections would change.

[1:25:11] But we're just not to sit tight and see what happens.

[1:25:17] What was the last time we closed the bridge?

[1:25:19] It's been like, year 2014, I believe.

[1:25:22] long time was Paul said we had to do that back in the late 90s and early

[1:25:29] odds. It seemed like we were close in Bridget all the time. Paul said he's I

[1:25:34] mean he did this today and he's yeah I have to do this quite a few times so

[1:25:40] we got really to worry about it but we got really good media coverage today so

[1:25:43] the mayor did a great job talking about our certified levee project in conjunction

[1:25:48] with the flooding so I suspect if you watch the news read the news tomorrow

[1:25:52] probably see some car for in full there. And I heard that we've closed Main Street East.

[1:26:03] Yeah, probably.

[1:26:06] They get only one way, which is out the other way or they close, we have the fence close for the park.

[1:26:13] Oh, yeah, I understand the park. Yeah, that is close too.

[1:26:18] Okay. Any other questions for you, Erin?

[1:26:19] And we'll have a very happy review.

[1:26:21] Happy review.

[1:26:22] Appreciate that.

[1:26:24] No.

[1:26:25] Not one is being recorded.

[1:26:27] That could not.

[1:26:29] That could not.

[1:26:30] Yeah.

[1:26:36] Yeah.

[1:26:37] Yeah.

[1:26:37] So the main.

[1:26:38] Yeah.

[1:26:38] Good question.

[1:26:40] So the main river levy.

[1:26:42] That's all above the 100 year blood elevation.

[1:26:46] So like I said, like about 35 is what the 100 year is.

[1:26:50] So we're good to above the 100 year by I think it's like a foot or two. It's not a lot, but we do have some freeboard on the main

[1:27:02] room or lobby over the 100 year flood. It would have to be well I wish I had that graph. I think I have it.

[1:27:18] I recall I should back 38 feet but I don't know why.

[1:27:28] It was a long time ago.

[1:27:31] And actually the the the the the where it wasn't that the water would come over.

[1:27:36] It was it's that it would go through it.

[1:27:38] It's going to bring it.

[1:27:38] This is slow stability because you get water that starts to travel through it.

[1:27:44] And then you start losing soil and then it just can cast rapidly.

[1:27:49] So I think the Spring Creek system isn't quite as robust as from a height perspective, so

[1:28:00] you know, there could be some temporary fill needed at some point, but the main river

[1:28:05] levy is north of the hundred years.

[1:28:10] All right, let's let Aaron go.

[1:28:11] Go now.

[1:28:12] Okay, thank you.

[1:28:13] Any other questions?

[1:28:14] No, no, no.

[1:28:14] Don't ask me about that.

[1:28:16] Okay.

[1:28:16] Thanks a lot.

[1:28:18] Good night.

[1:28:19] Good night.

[1:28:21] All right.

[1:28:21] So we move on to the sign ordinance.

[1:28:23] Let's do it.

[1:28:24] This is just the overview.

[1:28:26] Not the whole.

[1:28:28] It's a lot.

[1:28:29] It is a lot.

[1:28:31] All righty.

[1:28:33] So the city council has been having a really robust conversation related to the sign ordinance.

[1:28:38] Eric can probably a test.

[1:28:40] A lot of times we've talked about it.

[1:28:42] One of the big things that we've been focusing on quite a bit as temporary signage.

[1:28:47] So it's the pesky signs that are the squeegee squad

[1:28:51] and hang your Christmas lights and three puppies

[1:28:54] that pop up all our community, how we handle them,

[1:28:57] how to play fair across the board

[1:28:59] for the entire group.

[1:29:01] So we'll talk through a bunch of that information

[1:29:03] and then we'll go through the text.

[1:29:05] Also, the city attorney put this together,

[1:29:06] that's why it's formatted so beautifully,

[1:29:09] don't anticipate that to happen ever again.

[1:29:13] So the section, the sign section,

[1:29:15] within the zoning ordinance which is why the planning commission is tasked with this

[1:29:18] review. Tonight we'll be looking for some planning commission feedback and then in the

[1:29:23] out of future date we'll do a public hearing since it's part of the zoning code and we'll

[1:29:26] be an update to that. So the night is just discussion, get your feet wet, ask some questions.

[1:29:32] So like I mentioned before, the most robust section was about temporary signs.

[1:29:37] So this is directly from our current sign code and it was for a carver of yesterday year I think.

[1:29:43] So it was really focused at the occasional shops.

[1:29:49] So when the store is downtown,

[1:29:50] it would be open one weekend a month.

[1:29:52] They were able to provide signage.

[1:29:54] So that's where the signage shall be permitted

[1:29:56] during beginning at 6am wins.

[1:30:00] Today, through 9 p.m. Sunday, it was really targeted at that occasional group.

[1:30:06] The blanket of downtown has changed since then. Obviously, there are a lot of businesses that are open, a more traditional schedule, so this feels antiquated and outdated.

[1:30:15] So, thinking about revising that to allow signage for businesses that are open all of the time.

[1:30:22] Something that we start with quite a bit is number 5, which is temporary science must receive permission from the underlying property owner.

[1:30:29] So we see a lot of signs pop up on city property and they don't get our permission. Obviously because our current code does not allow for temporary signs unless you have that permission

[1:30:40] Which they typically don't we also run into this occasionally downtown where where a business owner wants to put an additional sign on the sidewalk

[1:30:47] In front of someone else's business. So if you think about like the corner of the ice cream shop is there's that nice big bump out

[1:30:55] To put a sign there, you need to have the underlying property owner's permission,

[1:30:59] since it's part of the right of where the area they need to maintain.

[1:31:02] So that was also a little bit of a snag that we hit last summer. So thinking about temporary

[1:31:06] signs and then the permission from the underlying property owner.

[1:31:11] Some examples of the...

[1:31:12] When you say underlying property, so the property that's adjacent to the side.

[1:31:18] Correct, yes.

[1:31:20] Some temporary signs that we see, this is where it gets really tricky, is that some of them are

[1:31:24] community and we want these events to keep happening and we want people to go to them.

[1:31:29] So fish rise. Great, but it gets a little bit tricky when it's businesses that don't

[1:31:34] exist in Carver and aren't community related events. So right now my team, the building inspector

[1:31:40] and the building official are tasked with removal of temporary signs. They hit the community

[1:31:45] roughly once a week or whatever they're out on inspection. And if it's on city property,

[1:31:49] they pull them. We then hold them at city hall for a little while and get someone wants to

[1:31:53] give us a call to say oh my sign back otherwise we get rid of them and that can be a little bit

[1:31:58] tricky playing fair across the board thinking about community groups community events that might

[1:32:05] be happening versus someone who spent a whole Sunday putting out signs for a different

[1:32:09] business okay you're not going to take down that kindergarten sign area what's the kindergarten sign

[1:32:15] the right-hand side. The sun? Yep. Was it safe?

[1:32:19] It says I'm going to be a proud kindergarten next year ahead.

[1:32:22] I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

[1:32:23] They have the underlying property owners permission.

[1:32:27] So science can't be with them.

[1:32:28] It means it's issued by the school district.

[1:32:31] Science can't be within the public right of way.

[1:32:33] So if someone wanted to bump that into their property,

[1:32:35] I'd have no problem with that.

[1:32:37] But if it's in the public right of way, we typically will grab them.

[1:32:41] So like the fish fry one.

[1:32:44] There's a property owner kind of on that corner.

[1:32:46] This is in public right of way.

[1:32:48] How do you know that though?

[1:32:50] Because I took these photos and I was on this property there.

[1:32:54] So this is the cover sign is right over to this side of it, so it's up by sleep farm.

[1:32:59] And the city maintains right of way on every street beyond just the road.

[1:33:06] 10 feet typically.

[1:33:07] Typically, yes, yep, the problem is, you know, I know we've gone through this before we're

[1:33:18] Jazz because it has a sign ordinance and they don't want us signs on for like speed won't be.

[1:33:24] That is a big one, so we reached out to business owners in the community and some community groups just to get feedback.

[1:33:30] So the people who are putting the signs out, we asked, what's going on, how can we be helpful?

[1:33:34] would make this easier for you. A lot of people came back to us and said they didn't realize

[1:33:39] that there was a formal sign ordinance, so they didn't realize they were breaking any rules,

[1:33:43] so it was a little bit of an education piece. They also have some questions about enforcement,

[1:33:49] the next bullet plays into that, so fair treatment across groups. So the city puts up signs like

[1:33:56] historically we've put up signs for the farmers market or the fire department puts up signs for

[1:34:01] open house or the alliance for a pancake breakfast or steamboat days, we typically will leave

[1:34:06] those signs for a little bit but we'll pull other people's signs and that was tough. It's hard

[1:34:11] to grapple with that a little bit to say leave that sign because it's steamboat days and we're

[1:34:16] on steamboat days but take the squeegee squad because they're not a local carver business. So trying

[1:34:21] to figure out what that looks like. We also had a couple requests from community groups to allow

[1:34:27] permitting of signs within parks. So one of them, in example, is the CCYBSA or the baseball organization wanted to be able to put tri-out signs in community park.

[1:34:37] The city owns that property, so you can't put signs on city property without permission. Our code doesn't allow you to have permission.

[1:34:44] So got kind of tricky, and they're a great community group. We want to help support them, but then we're not adhering to our ordinance if we're allowing them to have signs.

[1:34:53] We also heard that people wanted us to allow signs in the right of way of not

[1:34:58] detrimental to traffic, but that's tricky to make a call, what's detrimental to

[1:35:02] traffic, what's not, and then to consider the bumpouts throughout downtown.

[1:35:06] So those of you that have lived in Harbor for a while, broadways, bumpouts, increase

[1:35:11] significantly, giving the property owners on the corner significantly more space than

[1:35:15] other business owners.

[1:35:17] So a couple of business owners not on those bumpouts asked us to consider those areas.

[1:35:20] What would it look like if there was some free space that would allow some additional advertisement?

[1:35:26] So those are the big pieces that's how we got to where we are right now. I'm going to pull up the

[1:35:31] Ordinance version so we can look at it together again crystal. I know you're going to love the formatting and I will never be able to do this

[1:35:38] I'm not surprised

[1:35:41] Any changes? I know it's because our city attorney put it together

[1:35:44] Okay, so if we want to start just moving through the Ordinance we can talk through

[1:35:48] different sections Eric if you want to be part of the discussion feel free since the city council is so involved how we got to where we are right now

[1:35:56] So I'm gonna pass it to you all for discussion in comments

[1:36:01] It's have a question

[1:36:05] Separate to the planning commission. I was involved in the

[1:36:09] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, what did whatever

[1:36:12] get ways, get way to curve project. And we talked about in the various intersections, those bumpouts,

[1:36:19] what occur. So, isn't fair to say that the bumpouts we have today will probably multiply. Yes,

[1:36:28] as we continue. So I just wanted that line of sight that we have a few bumpouts, but we will probably

[1:36:35] we have a lot more bump-outs on the intersections here of Main Street. So it's probably

[1:36:41] limited issue now, but it will be bigger. And the city main teams, those? Or who main

[1:36:47] teams? No, the property owner. So we allow signs there. The property owner has to deal with

[1:36:52] taking them down and putting them back. Yep. It's tricky, isn't that? I would not allow that.

[1:36:59] Yes, that's your sign.

[1:37:02] Yeah.

[1:37:02] Enough flow of sign.

[1:37:03] Do you want to join us at the Microsoft?

[1:37:06] That's a property owner.

[1:37:08] We'll only allow their sign.

[1:37:09] It's not correct.

[1:37:11] Oh yeah.

[1:37:11] Okay.

[1:37:12] Got it.

[1:37:14] Yeah.

[1:37:14] That makes sense.

[1:37:15] Just for the context, that's we don't know what's in the journey here.

[1:37:19] We did have our city attorney president for these discussions.

[1:37:23] And he had to constantly remind us that it really comes down to all or not.

[1:37:29] and that isn't check-in, so while we want, we would like to give access to baseball or

[1:37:37] the law hands, or somebody who think is community centric, putting their signs up, we also

[1:37:43] don't want Aryan nation, picked it, sign it, let's put it around the time, and how you can control that.

[1:37:50] Some of the station was, can we regulate through these structures?

[1:37:59] You have to come to the city hall.

[1:38:01] You have to pay a registration for ex-number of science,

[1:38:06] for the best that gives us the ability to put that back,

[1:38:12] and

[1:38:15] have some kind of...

[1:38:19] Not one was a nominal fee structure.

[1:38:22] There was a nominal fee structure.

[1:38:23] It's not designed to really prohibit you from having fees in place, but it was self-pullies

[1:38:29] in some respect.

[1:38:30] But even the vast majority of people probably wouldn't take the action to go to City Hall

[1:38:35] to pay it without a set of temporary signs.

[1:38:40] But the problem, the other problem was what is put in one sign.

[1:38:45] can't really regulate it,

[1:38:49] because it's free speech.

[1:38:51] Once you can do that, it's a back and forth of all of them.

[1:38:56] That was why it was such an awful discussion.

[1:39:02] I think what you're presenting today is got some control language that's added.

[1:39:08] Correct.

[1:39:10] But those were the things we socialized already.

[1:39:12] And we do this, can we manage it through licensing, and I think where we landed, but the day is about this, the double under one month.

[1:39:26] This is, isn't it?

[1:39:31] So...

[1:39:32] Okay.

[1:39:33] Listen.

[1:39:34] Yeah, right there.

[1:39:40] Yes, there is.

[1:39:42] There's the policy version of it, too.

[1:39:47] No, that was the last page.

[1:39:51] Oh, I see.

[1:39:56] That's the, we went through back and forth all of this.

[1:40:10] I had a hard time with one because the entire section about what temporary is was removed.

[1:40:18] And nothing else was put back in.

[1:40:20] Like, what is the definition of temporary?

[1:40:21] So that will likely fall in the definition section of the cone.

[1:40:25] So that's why it was removed here.

[1:40:28] But we had a long discussion about that

[1:40:29] at the city council level too.

[1:40:32] What makes something temporary

[1:40:34] is that the material of the sign?

[1:40:37] So we had a robust discussion about that too.

[1:40:44] What about sign design in the historic district?

[1:40:48] And here's somewhere.

[1:40:49] So any sign that is permanently installed

[1:40:53] gets reviewed by the HPC and against the design guidelines.

[1:40:56] But like the A frame signs that are proposed here

[1:40:59] temporary signs don't require that same approval.

[1:41:07] I read through this whole thing and this is an

[1:41:10] even whole sign order. Just part of it and I think myself. How much time do we spend on saying,

[1:41:20] you know, when you can have a sign, how big it is, it just seems like a lot of verbiage for that.

[1:41:26] And that is good feedback. Dave, our city attorney, wrote it. So if we want to go through and strip

[1:41:32] some of his for a bitch out of it that is absolutely something we can do to try to make it

[1:41:39] more readable at just average jail like this is most of what you sent us, you know, except for

[1:41:47] the underlying new stuff was already in our inheritance that's in our code. Yep, seems like a lot.

[1:41:56] If you're never done where because one of the some of the feedback you got was like they didn't know it was

[1:42:01] or if they pull out to the city page and look at this,

[1:42:06] they're probably not gonna read it,

[1:42:08] like, really.

[1:42:09] So is there the ability to add like a summary section?

[1:42:12] Like, hey, this is what's in there.

[1:42:14] You could be temporary.

[1:42:15] You can use these materials if you want more details,

[1:42:18] like go to this section.

[1:42:19] Yeah, I'd say probably not in our city code

[1:42:22] because it has to get codified.

[1:42:24] It's our legal document, but we could make something,

[1:42:28] the wonderful day that we're done with this whole process,

[1:42:30] Maybe there's a section on our website that says do you have questions about

[1:42:35] Temporary science click here and it can be a short

[1:42:37] Version of it and if you have more questions here's the version of the city code. That's definitely something we could put together

[1:42:43] And does this align? I know you said Chaska has like basically like

[1:42:48] tighter restrictions. It sounds like right is that you had said? No, I think Jim was is commenting that

[1:42:54] that Carver folk put symbol day signs in Chaska, which frustrates them, which I understand

[1:43:02] like their fish fry sign frustrated us. So I'd say it's not a comparison to either

[1:43:07] I'd say it's equal. But is this pretty like on par with what other cities around us are

[1:43:13] doing? Yes. So we reached out to like our pier cities that we consider, so

[1:43:20] of Victoria, Chaska, Jordan, etc. No one, the consequences of talking about it. No one had

[1:43:27] to sell her bullet to say this is what we do and it works well. So, related to temporary

[1:43:32] signage specifically, because it's tricky that you want some of it. Some signs but not others,

[1:43:37] but it's all or nothing. You have to go anywhere the other.

[1:43:45] So, we've been found anyone who has,

[1:43:48] it's not going to be perfect, but it at least gives us the ability to allow some temporary signage

[1:43:53] on city property if someone gets a permit.

[1:43:56] OK, I have a question.

[1:43:58] Number five, signs allowed without a permit.

[1:44:03] So five, and then B2, environmental traffic,

[1:44:09] control devices, do not contain commercial messages,

[1:44:12] provided that the signs shall not be larger than four feet square.

[1:44:15] The maximum height of the signs shall not exceed.

[1:44:18] The placement of the directional bubble, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1:44:21] What kind of sign are we looking at? Is this? Can you tell me what page you're on on page three?

[1:44:28] two right there section two five

[1:44:33] B yeah, F2

[1:44:37] On the sign nine governmental traffic control devices that do not yes

[1:44:44] Sign shall be exempt from the permanent permanent subdivision three so think about a commercial or an industrial user that might have an arrow

[1:44:52] that says loading dock this way. Okay. Or Mokamunki is going to have quite a few to get to your

[1:45:01] That's not temporary.

[1:45:05] Correct.

[1:45:06] You like steak in the ground?

[1:45:09] Yeah.

[1:45:10] It don't think this section is about temporary signage,

[1:45:17] though.

[1:45:18] No, no, that's not.

[1:45:18] Signs allowed without a permit.

[1:45:20] Yeah. Signs allowed without a permit.

[1:45:23] But wouldn't those be a part of their site development plan?

[1:45:27] Yep. So they'd be covered there.

[1:45:32] So would it be like if somebody's having a construction project on, they could have like

[1:45:36] that would be temporary, that would route traffic to where that is.

[1:45:40] This is E.

[1:45:41] These aren't temporary.

[1:45:42] So it'll be Malcolmunky saying drive through this way or when they paint on the concrete,

[1:45:47] like the drive through a virus.

[1:45:54] So I may have been an over-achiever,

[1:45:58] but I listened to the work sessions.

[1:46:01] True, definitely.

[1:46:03] It was an interesting conversation.

[1:46:08] conversation, let's say at the least, and I can't even imagine how painful it was.

[1:46:15] I have those conversations.

[1:46:18] They often say that about these meetings.

[1:46:20] They'll make fun of us.

[1:46:23] I read the material that the city council was provided in the work session, and then I listened to

[1:46:29] the work session.

[1:46:30] I listened to both March and April.

[1:46:32] I feel like this is where...

[1:46:35] This is a good, I think this is a good spot on where it landed.

[1:46:44] And I'm glad you brought up the legal aspects of this, because you can't decipher the content of the sign.

[1:46:52] It's free speech.

[1:46:54] So it really comes down to, are we going to have a sign or not?

[1:47:00] Will we allow this answer not?

[1:47:01] Well, it's kind of interesting though when you say it's free speech. So are we going to allow

[1:47:06] science that use vulgar language?

[1:47:10] We have to. Yes, the growth. Wow. Yeah, that's and that's the exact debate that occurred.

[1:47:18] So did you got a little bit? It's just a period. Yeah, Dave got a little squirmy, but the way I was

[1:47:24] taught in my graduate program is that you can police the material but not the message. So you can say

[1:47:30] the sign has to be this material in the size, but you can't say, you're

[1:47:34] sign can't say that.

[1:47:36] So you find the loophole in it.

[1:47:38] You can, yeah, it's like the bell plane, the war memorial, that went up the,

[1:47:42] and then there was a cross that was erected.

[1:47:45] There are some really hot cases about signage.

[1:47:48] Mm-hmm.

[1:47:49] One other point to consider

[1:47:54] is that this, if we find that we have signs all over the

[1:48:00] as we run them up. We can give that and we can change this. This is to give us the flexibility

[1:48:07] and allow for some different percentage. And if we're wrong in our approach, we need to change this.

[1:48:16] I feel like what we're going to find is that nothing changes because most people don't know

[1:48:20] exist today. Yeah. Like there will definitely be a time. I feel like when inappropriate signs will

[1:48:27] up and it gets publicity and then it could go a month but for the most part I didn't even know

[1:48:33] this existed. So like most people are just going to keep doing what they want to do and

[1:48:38] part of it. Part of it selfishly is for staff just to give us some clear guidelines of what

[1:48:43] to do because we'll get calls sometimes to say hey I had all those signs up what happened

[1:48:47] to them and we have to say we pulled them it you were in violation of our sign code or at least

[1:48:52] now we can say you can apply for a permit if you want to have some temporary signs it gives

[1:48:56] that you know option to continue the conversation because it's been hard like we've had some

[1:49:01] tough conversations with community groups to say I put those signs out yesterday why did you

[1:49:06] pull him today and it's like it was just in our cycle that's how it happened like it wasn't about

[1:49:11] you specifically but what did we talk about garage sales signs not at Steam both days with

[1:49:17] doing needs signs team both days right but so like if somebody's having a three day garage still

[1:49:22] And they just stick one on the corner, so you turned, come down the road to see you.

[1:49:26] Technically, no, do they happen over the weekend?

[1:49:30] Yes, are the inspectors pretty busy that they can't be out there all the time?

[1:49:34] Yes, yes.

[1:49:34] Okay, good.

[1:49:35] I'm thinking more like, parade home signs that are longer, like, multiple weekends in our all.

[1:49:41] We have the ability to take those unless they got to permit, which we could talk to the parade folk and say,

[1:49:49] Make an application.

[1:49:53] So you can have a political sign in your yard, but not in a city right away.

[1:49:58] Correct, so if it's typically people but them in their yard, so you can have it in your windows

[1:50:04] as long as it doesn't take up more than 50% of the area in the window.

[1:50:07] You are correct.

[1:50:09] 50%?

[1:50:11] 50.

[1:50:14] And political signs, I would say more emotion is related to political signs.

[1:50:19] So, I'd say a garage sale sign is easier to pull

[1:50:25] than someone's political sign,

[1:50:37] but...

[1:50:38] Oh, here, and that's the issue

[1:50:41] of question.

[1:50:47] The touch point of this issue, is it the finance of some

[1:50:51] of these signs is where it falls into

[1:50:58] this?

[1:50:58] So, it's strictly because it's in the zoning code.

[1:51:02] So, anything that gets touched in the zoning

[1:51:05] called the planning commission has to look at?

[1:51:08] Correct. And I will say the city council has cooked to this issue. They've talked about it for a

[1:51:14] really long time. It's coming to you right now as a discussion. Any substantial changes would

[1:51:19] have to go back to the city council for them to say, yes, that's a great idea. We should definitely

[1:51:24] change this section. If there was feedback or parts you didn't understand, we're happy to take that,

[1:51:29] but I would say the city council generally isn't a good spot with us. I can't speak for them. Obviously,

[1:51:35] But since it's in the zoning code, this is your discussion piece of it if there needs to be changes and then at a future date

[1:51:43] We'll do a public hearing

[1:51:44] So anything that learning commission correct yep, but not a city council no anything that was in chapter 50

[1:51:51] Which the signage section does this group has to touch?

[1:51:56] So does anybody want to add something to the sign ordinance?

[1:52:00] I'm just going to have the console that and we have to do it.

[1:52:05] You guys did a lot of work for us, thank you.

[1:52:08] Sherry did all the work.

[1:52:09] Sherry, you did a lot of work.

[1:52:13] I was thinking about this on my way here, and I came down sixth street, and there's a

[1:52:17] hydrogen-plushing sign.

[1:52:19] Oh, that's ours, yeah.

[1:52:22] Standing up against a tree in the right way.

[1:52:25] Yep.

[1:52:25] But this city can do what I was saying.

[1:52:27] like, you know, it just made me trigger like, there's different reasons of why we have signs and

[1:52:33] for sure. We've talked a lot at a staff level too about making sure our logo is on any city sign.

[1:52:39] We haven't historically so like the farmers market signs that were out previously.

[1:52:44] They didn't have the city logo so I could see someone that looked at that and said,

[1:52:47] why can that sign be on city property? Why can't mine? So we're going to work to make sure all of our

[1:52:52] have our logo. So then it's a little bit clearer to people. Like, oh, that's a city sign on city property. Yeah.

[1:52:59] Not that we'd want to spend our money necessarily on this, but if we're going to start building a lot of new parks and stuff like we have a big fund for that.

[1:53:06] Has there been discussion around creating like a spot at the parks that's maybe shaded for parents that would be like somewhere that would have like

[1:53:19] notifications to the city and they can post it. We used all these signs. We've had a

[1:53:24] tough time with maintenance of those types of facilities just making sure

[1:53:28] they're current in good condition. So I would say typically that's not something

[1:53:32] that we'll do. Okay. Would you keep post things like PCs in the postcards? Yeah. Yeah.

[1:53:40] I just think like a lot of other things that they want like parents specifically

[1:53:44] need to be aware of, right? Like young families are moving to the garage sales. I know, and

[1:53:49] like the tea ball sign-ups, and the ice cream shop, and so it's like if they had somewhere

[1:53:53] where those families are alive, they're like, oh, you weren't allowed to. No one's calling

[1:53:58] them there for information. That wasn't joke.

[1:54:05] Any other discussion related to this? I'll

[1:54:08] study it more?

[1:54:11] Yes.

[1:54:11] We'll have representation on Zoom.

[1:54:15] I'd like to do a call.

[1:54:21] I'd like to do a call.

[1:54:22] I'd like to do a call.

[1:54:23] That's okay.

[1:54:26] When we get here, it's that

[1:54:31] all good.

[1:54:39] So if you're putting in a permanent sign that requires review.

[1:54:43] It's either $60 if it doesn't have if it doesn't need footings.

[1:54:47] And then if it does need footings, it's a percentage of the building permit fee.

[1:54:50] If you're coming in for a temporary sign to permit,

[1:54:52] we are thinking that it will likely hit our zoning permit, which is a $20 fee.

[1:55:01] No, not only can I test that the zoning permit is essentially right your name and your address,

[1:55:07] and we can review it from there. Same day usually, yep.

[1:55:22] We got some really great feedback from a lot of groups, so I feel like we have closer line of communication

[1:55:28] with a lot of people, so we'll show that information for sure.

[1:55:32] Perhaps Mayor Courtney could put it in her monthly update perhaps that or like goes out with the water belt and we can put it on social media to online there's some really cool tools like question and answer like do I need to permit yes is example and ask questions and then ultimately yes or no and call whoever

[1:55:52] I'm just like when we think about problematic signs, they're going to go up regardless, right? So it just protects us from, right? That's what it does is perfect.

[1:56:03] Correct. So if someone came in and had a sign that was vulgar, and they didn't get a permit, it's pretty easy for us to say. You don't have a permit. We pulled it out of a right of way.

[1:56:12] What if the all-gersign is taking up for some of their window?

[1:56:18] Probably going to leave it.

[1:56:20] Don't get any ideas, please.

[1:56:26] Other feedback?

[1:56:37] Yeah.

[1:56:39] We've talked about stickers.

[1:56:43] The

[1:56:47] days when anything went in carbon.

[1:56:53] That was a while.

[1:56:54] Sometimes that still happens.

[1:56:59] Anybody else on science or do you feel like we've given you direction?

[1:57:05] I do.

[1:57:05] I'm going to schedule a public hearing.

[1:57:07] I'm not sure.

[1:57:08] I don't know.

[1:57:09] That was helpful.

[1:57:10] I know we don't usually ask you to do that.

[1:57:12] But you've spent so much time on that.

[1:57:14] Is Eric our new liaison?

[1:57:16] No.

[1:57:17] Great.

[1:57:19] That was a very quick answer.

[1:57:21] I told you.

[1:57:23] They all poke fun at us saying how nerdy these meetings are.

[1:57:26] Is that what you make me do it?

[1:57:33] This was fun. Yeah, okay. Okay, so Eric's temporary.

[1:57:39] Does anybody like to be done with this meeting?

[1:57:41] I'm gonna make a motion to be done.

[1:57:45] Motion to be done.

[1:57:46] So I can be done.

[1:57:48] All in favor say aye. Aye.

[1:57:51] It's meeting is adjourned.

Carver Planning Commission Meeting

Agenda

Transcript