[0:00] Welcome to the City of Denton Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for January 10, 2018. This will be our work session. This meeting has been duly posted, and we do have a forum present, and I will call us to order at 502. Our first order business will be to receive clarification of agenda items. And so that will move us in our work session down to our consent agenda. If there are questions,

[0:28] Hayley can come and answer those on the consent agenda.

[0:36] The Denton Traffic Partners,

[0:40] okay.

[0:41] Hayley, you want to come up to the mic.

[0:47] Commissioner Beck.

[0:49] Thank you, Chair.

[0:49] Just a quick question.

[0:52] From the Google map thing, I'm sitting in the truck, there's a gas oil there now, so is that

[0:57] on that lot 8?

[0:59] Yes, sir.

[1:00] That is on lot 8 and there's an access easement and a pipeline easement, both coming off of

[1:04] Jim Crystal there.

[1:06] Okay.

[1:06] Is that remaining? They're not removing that? Are they just?

[1:09] It is to remain there's an approved gas wall site plan for that site, and as far as I know, it will remain there.

[1:14] Okay, thank you.

[1:19] Any other questions for Haley on this item?

[1:26] Okay. That will then take us to our items for individual consideration.

[1:32] And I'll call on Haley for presentation on P17-10 Creekside on Ryan Road.

[1:40] Yes, so some of you may be familiar with Creekside.

[1:44] It's a large parcel of on Annex property.

[1:48] It was under a non- Annexation agreement for several years, and when the last of those

[1:52] was about to expire in 2016, they entered into a pre- Annexation development agreement with

[1:57] the city, so it subdivided the entire parcel into three tracks of land.

[2:01] This is just one of those tracks that's tracked one C in the agreement, and it is for a single

[2:07] family subdivision that will have 137 residential lots and three common area lots.

[2:15] The plant has multiple pages here, but it would be, you know, your standard single family

[2:19] roughly in our three density is what we would be looking at here.

[2:24] And we did put this on individual consideration because there is a section in the agreement

[2:28] that requires the gas well onsite to be plugged before the final plant is approved.

[2:33] So we just wanted to be abundantly clear about that that

[2:37] That they will not get a final plot approved for this until such time as the gas well is plugged

[2:41] Okay, Commissioner back and on that note so those I guess those are storage tanks that are there now too

[2:49] They've all been removed at this point the operator is in the process already going. Yes

[2:53] Okay, they're in the process of closing the site

[3:00] Commissioner Sullivan sorry sir

[3:11] I know there was one done in 2014 for a subdivision further to the west from this property.

[3:17] I'm not sure if there's been anything done in the time since then, though.

[3:21] Also, how does the impact fee or whatever is called now?

[3:29] How has it assessed since, you know, on the street side of this subdivision is not

[3:36] nearly as big as the whole subdivision?

[3:40] How is it determined, who's going to take care of the street and when is that determined?

[3:47] My understanding is all that was laid out in the pre-annexation development agreement.

[3:51] there were agreed upon amounts for roadway impact fees and all of the impact

[3:56] fees that would be associated with the development at that time knowing the

[3:59] full scope of all three tracks that were intended to be developed. So all of

[4:03] that has been kind of predetermined at this point.

[4:05] Okay, when is that going to happen, though? I mean, is there a deadline by which I

[4:11] think it's $589,000 is going to be spent to widen or to do something with Ryan

[4:16] Road is not specified exactly what's going to happen. And so I'm just

[4:21] As curious when is that street improvement supposed to happen?

[4:26] I'm not sure when the improvements will happen.

[4:28] I know the impact fees will be assessed and paid at the time of permitting for the individual building permits.

[4:33] So it will be split over all of these individual lots as they're developed in terms of when it's paid.

[4:39] Because I know Ryan Meadows on the other end of the West End, there hasn't been anything done to the street that they front on Ryan Road.

[4:48] But they've been there for a year or more.

[4:51] I'm not aware of any immediate plans for improvements on Ryan Road, but the impact fees

[4:55] will be paid with each permit.

[4:59] Hey, you may want to give a clarification to Commissioner Sullivan that it's at the city's

[5:03] option whether the perimeter street paving's done or where they collect the fees.

[5:08] Yeah, yeah.

[5:09] In this case, the agreement outlined how much would be paid for each phase of this development

[5:14] for impact phase for road water and sewer so Commissioner Smith thank you

[5:21] chair clarification on the bottom of the plaque there it says street

[5:24] d just ends and they're in the map is that connecting to the neighborhood

[5:27] itself of that track exactly is happening there yeah see much I can't quite

[5:35] go further south creek view or creek day oh does it I'm sorry yeah it does tie

[5:42] the existing subdivision. I don't see the exact streak that you were referencing but it ties into

[5:46] the existing subdivision. So basically the most of my question is I was pretty. I was pretty

[5:51] able to pay attention. I looked at the next page. Does this plot eventually connect the neighborhood

[5:59] from Ryan all the way down to Hickory Creek or is there through the neighborhood or is the only way

[6:04] for people to get to Hickory Creek and then go back out to Teasley or go back out to 1830? It would

[6:10] to be connected through the name of our scheme.

[6:12] That was a question I had from my resident.

[6:17] The another thing that was brought up,

[6:22] permission of Sullivan talked about the traffic analysis.

[6:27] Can we get any information on that?

[6:29] There was one done in 2014 for this.

[6:31] Can we get a refresher on that during the actual meeting

[6:34] at 6.30 or?

[6:36] I could look into that to my knowledge.

[6:38] There hasn't been one done for this subdivision.

[6:40] And the one, I think, from 2014 was for another subdivision

[6:44] along Ryan Road.

[6:44] OK.

[6:47] The what say, what say does the city have

[6:50] and requiring the developer to put in acceleration

[6:53] and deceleration lanes coming into the neighborhood itself

[6:57] off of Ryan Road?

[6:59] Since the point time, or is there anything we could do

[7:02] is that?

[7:03] Honestly, I'm not certain on that.

[7:05] Since they did enter into the agreement that specified how much

[7:08] they would contribute towards the roadways,

[7:09] I don't know if there would be any room for that, but we could look into it.

[7:12] Okay. I was just bringing up concerns.

[7:14] I was brought to me about a couple of different citizens in the neighborhood that butts in.

[7:19] The last thing was within the preliminary planning process that we're in,

[7:23] what landscaping requirements are there currently?

[7:28] Is it zoned in R2?

[7:32] At this point, it's technically still in the city's ETJ.

[7:35] The agreement requires that once their final plan is approved, they apply for annexation into the city and then at that point

[7:41] It stipulates that they would apply for an NR3 zoning designation for the property

[7:46] In terms of landscaping the agreement outlined a very specific landscaping

[7:52] Plan for the entire subdivision as well as the other tracks the primary feature and this portion would be

[7:59] Let me get to the right page all of the trees that exist along the west side of the property or most of them are to remain

[8:05] in place and the same thing on the south side.

[8:07] Okay, that was the biggest questions I had there.

[8:10] And one other thing we brought up, what are the other, you said this is, this is track

[8:13] one C. What are the other tracks within this?

[8:18] It's kind of hard to see here.

[8:19] The one immediately joining it where all of the flood plain is, is one B, and the agreement

[8:24] specified that that would have up to three single family homes, but the majority of the

[8:29] ESA and the flood plain is all to remain intact.

[8:31] And then the other portion is further east from there and that would be kind of a second phase of the Good Samaritan Center.

[8:38] It works.

[8:39] Thank you.

[8:44] Any other questions for Hayley on this item?

[8:50] Okay.

[8:51] Thank you, Hayley.

[8:53] As far as our public hearings this evening, we'll need to get a, we'll open item A and

[9:02] Chair would like to get a motion from one of the other commissioners to continue this to the 21st, and we'll leave it open.

[9:11] And then the other two items, we're not going to take any action on those since they have been withdrawn.

[9:18] And that will take us through the items that are on our agenda.

[9:21] And I think Richard has got some other items that are off agenda that he wanted to go over with us here at work session.

[9:28] It just wanted to sort of update everybody what's kind of going to go on the next meeting.

[9:32] It's going to be a pretty hefty agenda, particularly for the work session.

[9:38] We'll have three items, specific for work session, two of those I handed out tonight.

[9:44] These are the new or draft design criteria manual for transportation and drainage.

[9:52] So I wanted to get those well in advance rather than just sending them that Friday before

[9:57] so everybody had a chance to take a look at it.

[10:00] They are online as well, so we can provide that in an email.

[10:04] They're on the city's website, if you wanted to look at them electronically.

[10:09] But in the transportation manual, you'll see quite a bit of changes from the existing,

[10:15] specifically with outlines, it's TIA changes to pavement standards, right away with.

[10:26] So I'll save all of the details for engineering taught estus.

[10:30] Director of Capital Improvements will be here as well as pre-tam to go over both of these.

[10:37] Yes.

[10:39] Commissioner Beck.

[10:40] Thank you, Chair.

[10:41] Well, let's affect the mobility plan in any way.

[10:44] Are we changing streets, directions, or anything like that?

[10:49] It'll actually widen some of the residential streets.

[10:52] Right.

[10:53] But not necessarily change the mobility plan.

[10:57] One thing you'll see in here, they're going,

[10:59] they're starting to go with context-sensitive corridors.

[11:03] So that will ultimately play into that.

[11:05] So there are sort of some given take.

[11:09] So if it's on a context sensitive corridor,

[11:12] there are some things that you can do to possibly reduce a park if you put a bike lane seat.

[11:18] So there's a number of different options sort of outlined in the manual.

[11:23] Okay, also as the only member here that's part of that subcommittee done with the DDC changes.

[11:31] Are we going to be holding any more meetings?

[11:33] Yes, or they actually implement because a new rewrite is supposed to be set up for the summer sometime.

[11:43] Even probably sooner than that.

[11:45] We're looking at getting sort of a first initial draft, possibly next month of some of the chapters.

[11:54] And so at that point in time, that subcommittee will then reconvene and start to go over those.

[12:00] and so what we suspect is probably March April sort of alternating work

[12:06] session and then the following meeting. We could probably plan on every work

[12:09] session having a sub-chapter or at least a section to review to get through

[12:16] that. So I just wanted to kind of preface that as we move forward that and not

[12:20] meant to carry it on in further just real quickly. Are they scheduled to have at

[12:25] It's one more public hearing on that before it goes to City Council.

[12:31] There'll be a cut on the criteria manual or the code.

[12:34] The code, so we'll have a number of public here.

[12:37] Okay, okay, right, thank you.

[12:41] The only other item that we'll get it to you prior to, I'll try to get that to you next week.

[12:46] Again, so you have it before the meeting.

[12:50] Debra Villares will be here to present changes to Subchapter 17,

[12:54] which deals with our environmentally sensitive areas.

[12:57] So there's some changes that she'd work through with her group.

[13:01] So we wanted to bring that to a work session as well.

[13:05] And then we have just to give you an idea.

[13:07] We have three rezoning and an SGP and then two preliminary plaats.

[13:11] So it's going to be, like I said, it'll be a bountiful agenda.

[13:18] What's the expected date for the adoption of the transportation criteria manual

[13:24] and the storm water and when those would go into effect.

[13:27] I think they're pushing to get them done sooner than later.

[13:31] They've opened up a sort of a 30 day window.

[13:35] And so what we talked about was rather than sort of have the meet,

[13:41] sort of let's just do it, let's open the window and then we can have that public hearing in between and

[13:46] that way if somebody from the public, I guess if they want to come, they could.

[13:51] So whether or not we want to open something up at the regular meeting, I mean, I guess that's an option that we can do.

[13:56] I don't know if, again, it's sort of up to, I'll leave that up to you guys how you want to handle that or just leave it as a work session item, okay?

[14:12] Commissioner Smith.

[14:13] Off the top of these, just for the public hearings, you probably may just find here.

[14:18] Do we need to make a motion to continue public hearing A and then B in season's there for items from the draw and we just, no action.

[14:36] I will call a conclusion to our work session at 517 and we will reconvene in council chambers at 630.

[14:47] Thank you.

[14:54] Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for January 10, 2008.

[15:00] This meeting's been dilly posted, and we do have a quorum present, and I will call us to order at 630. Our first order of business will be to stand and give the pledge to the US and the Texas flag.

[15:12] of

[15:19] the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation under

[15:25] God, indisputable with liberty and justice for all.

[15:32] Honour the Texas flag, a pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God, one in indivisible.

[15:48] Before we get started this evening on the rest of our agenda, we'll make an announcement for

[15:52] For some of you who may be here, we have two items that are on our public hearing, items

[15:59] 4B and 4C that are the Woodlands Project on McKinney Street.

[16:05] That item has been withdrawn from our meeting this evening.

[16:09] So if you're here for that item, or either of those two items, will that not be heard tonight

[16:15] and we do not have a date certain on that so I'll announce that before we get started on

[16:19] the rest of our meeting. With that announcement, we will now move on to our

[16:24] consent agenda.

[16:28] Chair would entertain a motion on the consent agenda. Commissioner

[16:32] Smith. Motion to approve. Commissioner Beck. Second. Okay. We have a first and a

[16:38] second for approval. Any discussion? Commissioner Sullivan. Not just that. Okay.

[16:44] I have a motion and a second for approval, and we will call for a vote on the board.

[17:00] Motion is going to carry five to zero.

[17:03] That will take us to our items for individual consideration, and I will call on Haley

[17:10] for presentation of item P17-0010.

[17:23] Good evening.

[17:24] This item is a preliminary plat for the Creekside subdivision located on the south side of Ryan

[17:28] Road.

[17:28] It's 137 residential lots and three common area lots.

[17:33] These are being developed in accordance with the terms of a pre-annexation development agreement that was passed in 2016 by the City Council.

[17:41] This is one of three phases for the entire Creek side development.

[17:46] And staff is recommending approval of this plan with the condition that the existing gas flow onsite be plugged in accordance with the terms of the pre-annexation development agreement.

[17:55] and that a final plat not be considered by the Planning and Zoning Commission until such time as the well is plugged.

[18:04] Can stand for any questions.

[18:09] Questions?

[18:11] No.

[18:12] Okay, great.

[18:13] Thank you, Haley.

[18:14] This is an item of individual consideration.

[18:17] I have a number of cards here to speak on this item.

[18:20] And I will start with the applicant, Thomas Fletcher.

[18:29] Do you give your name and address?

[18:31] Good evening, commissioners.

[18:32] Thomas Fletcher with Kindling Horn, 5750 Genesis Court, Frisco, Texas, 75034.

[18:40] Appreciate y'all's consideration to this item tonight.

[18:44] I realize there's a lot of citizens of Fistle Hill and maybe some of the surrounding neighborhoods

[18:51] that are in attendance tonight that have some questions and concerns.

[18:55] So what I'd like to do is kind of give an overview of the project and hopefully maybe that

[19:00] that will shed some light or maybe answer some of the questions that are had.

[19:06] If we can show the preliminary plat, so the preliminary plat, the portion that you're

[19:13] seeing on the screen here, this is the northern portion of the track.

[19:17] When we went through the PAD process, the PADA process with the city, one of the things we

[19:22] looked at is we wanted to do a development that really took advantage of the existing natural

[19:28] feature of the track. There's a lot of beautiful mature trees. So when we did the layout and the design and we were working with staff, we tried to keep the residential lots kind of towards the center portion of the track and create and keep the buffers that are on the perimeter.

[19:44] As you notice, there is a residential street running north south.

[19:50] We do not have lots that are backing to Thistle Hill.

[19:53] We have a landscape buffer there of the existing trees.

[19:58] It's approximately 120 feet wide on the north portion.

[20:02] As you go further south, I think it trims down to about 80 feet.

[20:06] Another thing when we were looking at this and we were doing the layout early on, we looked

[20:13] We looked at the Thistle Hill development, when Thistle Hill was developed,

[20:17] Thistle Ridge actually had a ride-of-way stub out to this track.

[20:22] When the development occurred, they did not build the roadway stub and

[20:26] the plans that set future ride-away for future extension to connect to the existing development.

[20:33] So as we worked with staff and we talked about the development and

[20:36] concerns that Thistle Hill might have with this connection to their development and

[20:42] and bringing additional traffic into their development.

[20:45] We looked at how do we meet the fire department or the fire code requirement of two access

[20:50] points in the distance between those access points.

[20:53] So this particular track has an 80 foot wide piece that runs south to Creekdale Drive.

[21:00] So for our two points of access, we have access to Creekdale and we have access to Ryan Road.

[21:06] So you will have some traffic split that will go between the two.

[21:10] So not all the traffic is going to be let out from the subdivision on to Ryan Road.

[21:15] Also as part of the agreement, because of the impact, because of what we were asking of the city.

[21:22] We are, we looked at Ryan Road, we talked about improvements to Ryan Road or

[21:28] our portion of contribution to the improvements or future improvements of Ryan Road.

[21:33] because there are concerns within the city about peace milling the roadway in doing these little scab on pieces adjacent to development.

[21:44] The decision was made with the city or by the city that the escrow of funds to assist with the future construction of Ryan Road was in the best interest of the city.

[21:55] The PADA stipulates that $589,000 will be donated by this development for perimeter roadway

[22:05] improvements to Ryan Road.

[22:06] That comes out to $4,300 per lot, which is more than twice what the roadway impact fee

[22:13] per lot is within the city's current ordinance.

[22:16] Along the south where we abut to Ryan Ranch, we've got a 70-foot buffer along there.

[22:24] So if you see this, this is the south portion of the track.

[22:28] I know it's not.

[22:29] It's a little bit hard to see on the screen.

[22:32] But you've got the north south road that kind of curves over and goes through the piece.

[22:37] It's kind of, I'd call it a flag lot, but there's 80 foot wide there.

[22:41] And that's going to have a residential street, which will be 27 feet back-to-back.

[22:46] There will be a sidewalk connecting the development down to Creekdale Drive.

[22:50] There's a 70-foot buffer between the proposed development and Ryan Ranch.

[22:58] All the majority of the mature trees within all of these open spaces are to be preserved.

[23:05] We've got trails throughout the development.

[23:08] We're taking advantage of the nice open spaces and putting in a mandering trail through the trees.

[23:16] to the east of the project adjacent to the floodplain in the actual creek.

[23:21] We're putting in a minute center with the children's playground and a swimming pool in the development.

[23:28] Like as Haley had mentioned, the development is contingent upon the well-being cap.

[23:34] There's an existing gas well on the site.

[23:36] As part of this development, that gas well is to be kept.

[23:40] That process has already begun.

[23:41] All the surface equipment has been removed, the surface has been cleaned up.

[23:46] Now we're waiting for the plug-in company, they're very busy at this time of the year.

[23:51] But we're on their schedule and we're waiting for the plug-in company to come up and

[23:55] cap the whale so that that should occur within the next few weeks.

[24:00] But anyway, that's kind of an overview.

[24:02] I tried to hit on transportation, the open space, the gas well.

[24:07] Well, I'll be happy to answer any questions and I'd be glad to come up afterwards if there's questions that are generated from the residents that I could potentially answer.

[24:18] Do you have a question? Commissioner Smith.

[24:20] Thank you, Commissioner.

[24:21] Thank you, Chair.

[24:23] Can you give me a rough estimate of property values for the development that's going in?

[24:29] Let me defer to the developer.

[24:32] Sure, let him introduce himself.

[24:34] I have a question for you, but I'll have a good one of the property values.

[24:40] Mr. Chairman and members of the Planning and Zoning Commission, I'm John Dickerson, 8333 Douglas,

[24:45] Sweet 1300 Dallas, Texas, I'm the President of Dickerson Development, and we are very excited to be your applicant.

[24:52] I actually own the property, we've closed on the property in November, so we're the owners of this 47-acre track,

[24:58] And we're very, very excited to be bringing this community into your city.

[25:04] We have two home builders lined up for this community and the price range of the homes that

[25:08] they've told us are $350,000 to $450,000.

[25:13] Okay, the two different home builders that are coming in, one of the questions I was raised

[25:19] by a citizen and brought to me was the worry of a cookie cutter facade being put up.

[25:25] Anything you could speak to that at all publicly?

[25:27] Certainly.

[25:28] Certainly.

[25:28] The PAD, the PADA, which was negotiated before we took over this property, addressed a lot

[25:34] of the issues of psych plans and setbacks to avoid the cooking hut or look that occurs

[25:42] in a lot of communities, you know, throughout the Metroplex and namely, we stagger front

[25:49] yard setbacks.

[25:50] There's basically three lots or three categories, A, B and C, two staggers so that there's

[25:56] not just a linear line of front yard set back.

[25:59] And then in our Homeowners Association,

[26:03] deed restrictions, we've got restrictions

[26:05] on front elevations, building materials,

[26:08] excuse me, masonry, brick, and I guess protections

[26:14] in there to make sure that it doesn't look

[26:16] like that there's not so many homes at the same time

[26:19] that there's different products.

[26:22] Did you guys drive through Fissa Hills at all

[26:24] to take ideas about how to create continuity within the area, keep the precisely looking

[26:29] the same as the wrong word to use, but something similar to what's already around it.

[26:33] I think this will hill is the standard or the quality of the quality that we envision happening

[26:41] on this property.

[26:42] Great, so absolutely.

[26:43] Thanks, sir.

[26:44] Yes, thank you.

[26:45] Did you guys ever have a neighborhood meeting with residents of this will hill to discuss

[26:49] this?

[26:50] No, we did not.

[26:50] All the meetings were with the city staff and the city officials.

[26:57] Usually brought up during zoning issues, not usually during our preliminary plating, but you could probably see this is a little bit more charged than normal preliminary plating plating.

[27:04] I think that was because the track is currently located in the ETJ, and then as part of the PADA, once the final plates are approved, we have to submit for annexation within 10 days.

[27:18] Thank you.

[27:19] Any other questions?

[27:21] Any other questions?

[27:22] Commissioner Sullivan.

[27:23] Thanks, Chair.

[27:24] I know it's all paid for the street impact fees or to be paid upfront.

[27:29] In fact, all three phases to combine are going to be $896,700.

[27:35] And my question is, since the traffic survey has not been done, how do you know what you're

[27:39] paying for?

[27:40] So when we met with the city, the city was in the process of doing their roadway impact

[27:45] fee.

[27:47] And what the city's consultant had determined was they had gone through and done a study of impacts on what a single family lot

[27:55] Impacts within a certain area of dent and what does that impact have on the roadway infrastructure in the system.

[28:02] And at the time I think at one point the city was looking at bringing forward a $3,000 per lot impact fee.

[28:10] And then as it went through the process that it was settled out on a $2,000 per lot impact fee.

[28:18] But what the study shows is that the actual impact is a little bit more significant than that.

[28:25] But if you make your roadway impact fee too high, then it could drive developers away.

[28:30] Because this project is located in the ETJ and we were asking for pre-annucation development agreement,

[28:37] That's why we came in at a roadway impact fee that is more in line with or appropriate to the impact of our development.

[28:48] So that figure was determined by the city and presented to us as part of the pre-annexation development agreement.

[28:58] So the study that was done by the city's consultant is what was utilized to help determine that appropriate fee amount.

[29:05] Well, I guess what I'm asking is, is that going to pay just to re-assault Ryan Rode, is it going to be?

[29:11] No, what it does is that covers, if we were to go out and do the perimeter roadway improvements,

[29:19] that fee is in line with the cost of that section of roadway.

[29:24] So, because if you go out and you drive, there are several areas adjacent to the Walmart,

[29:31] Mark Forest Hill, Teasley Trails, where with the development, the road was actually constructed and you get some incontinuity.

[29:40] So the city said, well, if we start assessing these impact fees versus having the developer themselves build this small section, or they're half of the roadway, then once we accumulate a certain amount of dollars, we can start the process of going out and doing schematic design, determination of road section.

[30:04] We can go through and do our flood study. So they can start using, so once these dollars are paid and put into the account, the city can start the process of planning for the improvements of this road, that planning will help them determine the overall, do an estimation of the overall cost, and then they can use that to start looking for sources to fund. Because you have, I mean, if you look at the,

[30:29] The area, I think about 60% of the front edge adjacent to Ryan Road is already developed.

[30:36] So you don't have as much development that's going to come in and contribute.

[30:39] So the city has to look at where are, what is the cost and

[30:44] then how can we fund the improvements to the overall roadway?

[30:49] You trust him more than I do.

[30:51] You only got to be adding at that, what, 137 homes?

[30:56] is 137 homes. My concern is that Thistle Hill phase one and two has about 150 homes and a couple of

[31:04] years ago there was a traffic survey done on Andrew because residents were concerned about the

[31:11] speeding of cars because it's a pretty straight shot from the back of Thistle Hill to Ryan Road.

[31:17] And during a five day period they had 2968 cars that went southbound from Ryan Road

[31:26] on to Andrew, another 3,173 cars that went northbound going from Andrew on to Ryan Road.

[31:34] So that's 6,141 cars that we're either going on to or off of Ryan Road.

[31:41] So that means that y'all's development is going to add an additional 6,000 cars going into

[31:48] or out of Ryan Road, but they're going to be traveling that Ryan Road.

[31:52] How do you all plan to get people out in a safe and

[31:58] expedited manner when you have all these cars coming within

[32:02] what, 300 feet of each other?

[32:04] From Andrew to Street A or whatever you call it?

[32:08] So the driveway spacing, when we look at the driveway spacing

[32:11] from Fistle Hill to our entry road, we look at the cities,

[32:15] the ultimate use of that roadway.

[32:17] What is the ultimate design section?

[32:19] What is the spacing?

[32:20] So if you look at Ryan Road and you drive up, there's a lot of, because it's developed

[32:25] over time, there's a lot of homes that front Ryan Road.

[32:29] So you have a lot of driveways with spacing that is relatively close when, you know, I think

[32:37] there's probably, you could probably find drives that are within, you know, 75 to 100 feet.

[32:42] Well, when we look at our development, we go through our design.

[32:45] We set our entry to where it is the distance apart from the entry to Thistle Hill meets the city's thoroughfare standards or traffic design standards so that there's adequate site distance, there's adequate visibility.

[33:03] So somebody that stopped in our development at Ryan Road, they have good sight and visibility.

[33:09] There's nothing impeding their visibility, and there's not going to be a car coming out of an adjacent driveway,

[33:15] whereas if they're coming out quickly, and we're coming, somebody in ours is coming out slowly, where it would create an issue.

[33:23] As far as the traffic count, I would imagine if those traffic count numbers, I would assume that those traffic count numbers probably included maybe traffic

[33:32] I think that was going through this little hill to get South to Creek Delta, maybe other developments.

[33:37] So from a traffic, I'm not a traffic engineer, but working with our traffic engineers.

[33:43] I know that a residential, single-family residential development typically generates about 9.5 trips per day.

[33:50] So if you round that up to 10, you're talking about 1,370 trips per day, that's generated from this development.

[33:57] In a peak hour, AM and PM, it's around one per lot.

[34:04] So you're talking about 137 peak hour trips that are added to the roadway system.

[34:11] Because the way our development is laid out, one of the things we did is, so we didn't

[34:16] have a straight through from Creekdale up to Ryan, we made it to where the, anyone coming

[34:24] or trying to go through the development would have to come down and go around.

[34:29] So we made several turns within the development that they would have to make.

[34:33] We didn't want to create a straight cut through.

[34:36] It, you know, studies have shown that if you make it harder for someone to cut through, you're going to reduce that cut through the traffic.

[34:42] So we didn't want to make this a development that's going to create an opportunity for a lot of cut through traffic.

[34:47] So I don't know if maybe their development has some cut through traffic in those numbers.

[34:52] But from a TIA standpoint, we would expect that 1,370 trips would be generated from this development per day.

[35:00] We would assume a certain percentage of those are going to go down to Creekdale and then go further south from there.

[35:06] What that percentage is without a TIA, I would probably guess that you might have 25% go south and 75% go north.

[35:16] just because the lots on the southern portion of the development, it's going to be quicker

[35:23] for them to get out if they go down to Creekdale and then I'm not sure there's another

[35:27] north-south connector street that goes out and I think comes out over by Sprouts.

[35:31] I'm not sure of all the street names, but that would be one way that the residents would

[35:38] get out and over to 2181.

[35:40] We're going to have to go Creekdale to River Pass,

[35:43] Hickory Creek, to then go on Hickory Creek,

[35:46] which is probably worse condition than Ryan Road.

[35:50] Let me ask you, have you, did you all talk to Ryan Ranch people,

[35:55] residents as far as dumping ever had many people into their neighborhood?

[36:00] We don't have any connectivity to their neighborhood.

[36:03] Well, Creekdale, I believe River Chase, if it's the correct street.

[36:09] Yeah, River Pass.

[36:10] River Pass is a collector and boundary of.

[36:13] So there's a north-south collector that ties into Creekdale that doesn't have any

[36:18] lots located on it.

[36:20] So Ryan Rant, it's my understanding if I'm not, if I'm thinking correctly, because I know

[36:27] when we looked at the sewer, because one of the things we looked at with the city is taking

[36:32] the Granada List station offline and making it gravity, which would save the city money with

[36:38] operation expense for that listation, one of the things we had to look at is there needed some

[36:43] up sizing of some of the sewer lines for their south in that I believe it's river pass, river chase.

[36:51] They mentioned that when we were talking about, they mentioned that if there was any up sizing required,

[36:58] they could potentially go that route because it's a collector and it did not impact any

[37:03] any lots or sewer line with services on it.

[37:08] But I'd have to look at a map to verify that, because I'm not.

[37:12] Okay.

[37:13] Thank you.

[37:15] It is River Pass, River Pass Drive.

[37:18] And are there lots running River Pass?

[37:20] They back to it.

[37:21] Back to it, thank you.

[37:22] On the east side, and the east side lots back to it,

[37:24] and the west of that is still farmland.

[37:31] Any other questions for the applicant?

[37:36] Thank you.

[37:38] And this is a individual agenda item and so I do have several other cards I wish you to speak and just take these in the order in which they are presented I have a Richard Botto 3913 Maggie Meadow and it's not marked whether it's in support of opposition please come forward, give us your name and address and then the card I have to follow you be a car in a cathode.

[38:03] would. Yes, good evening. Thanks for the opportunity to speak to the board or to the commission.

[38:12] I am a member of Thistle Hills, Richard Boto 3913 Maggie's Meadow in Denton 76210. I am

[38:23] actually the president of our Thistle Hills phase one HOA newly formed about one year ago.

[38:32] And we do have some, we do have some concerns, I wouldn't call it complete opposition, but we have some concerns on the New Neighborhood.

[38:43] One, I guess I didn't get the question quickly and enough to the applicant.

[38:49] There's, I believe it was indicated that there's 120 to 80 feet wide buffer on the one side.

[38:59] And presently, there's multiple trees that are tagged with yellow ribbons, but there's

[39:07] a whole lot of foliage in that area as well that are major trees that are not.

[39:13] And I guess, like the first of all, ask the question of if we can get an understanding

[39:19] if just the ones that are tagged yellow at the moment are planned to be saved or more than

[39:25] just that in that area.

[39:27] Okay. Can I ask you do you have several questions for the applicant or just one?

[39:32] Probably the rest are more for the city. Okay. Ask the applicant to please come forward and let's address the

[39:42] As far as the tree tags we have not done any tagging to signify what's being removed versus what's being saved

[39:50] So when we go out and do our tree survey

[39:52] When they tag certain trees typically that's gonna the city of ditten has different classifications for trees

[39:59] So the trees that have the ribbon would meet a certain classification, but what we do is we go out and we tag.

[40:07] We'll tag and tie all the trees that are six inches or larger than we go through and put together a tree survey.

[40:16] When we did our development, our design, that buffer, the distance we set the buffer enabled us to look at minimal impacts to the tree.

[40:27] So, there's very minimal, there are some trees that are being removed, but within that primary

[40:33] 120 feet width, the majority of those trees are being preserved.

[40:40] As far as when we have to go out and do some grading right up by the right of way, typically

[40:44] if there's a tree within 10 to 15 foot of the right of way, the grading activity is going

[40:51] that usually damage the tree to where it wouldn't survive.

[40:55] So any tree within probably 110 feet of that back property line would be preserved

[41:02] and then that 10 and then 50 foot right away, those were where you would start seeing tree removal.

[41:08] And then we're doing a trail through the trees and basically what we do on the design

[41:13] for the trail through the trees is it's kind of a design build trail so that we can kind

[41:17] We kind of go through and weave through the trees, and so that we're not removing trees to add concrete walk.

[41:23] We're building a concrete walk within the trees so that the citizens can enjoy the trees within the area.

[41:32] Does that answer your question?

[41:33] It does.

[41:34] Okay.

[41:34] I have a follow up while you're there at the mic.

[41:36] Have you already done your tree survey?

[41:38] We have.

[41:39] We have done the tree survey.

[41:40] It's been submitted to the city for review.

[41:43] We've done our grading plans, our construction plans are under review through the city.

[41:50] So I'd have to go back and relook at the numbers, but if we looked at the overall track and we looked at the percentage of canopy and

[41:58] caliper inches that we're saving, I think we're saving about 65% of the caliper inches on the site.

[42:05] the city. The city has two different standards. They have canopy trees and then they have trees that are kind of individual trees, but as far as canopy goes, the requirement is preserving 20%.

[42:19] I believe I know that there was some, I know a lot of the standards have been reviewed and there's changes that are maybe being proposed.

[42:28] But the last time I looked, I don't want to, if something's been updated or changed then I may not be speaking to what's current.

[42:35] But if based on what's current, we're saving about 45, probably around 45% over and above what would typically be required.

[42:47] So it's a very conservative approach, a very preservation oriented approach to the trees.

[42:53] I figured it was. I'm going to give you the opportunity to address that. So, thank you for answering my question.

[42:58] Please, may I ask them one of the different questions?

[43:01] Sure. Okay. With the developments.

[43:07] Can you step closer to the mic?

[43:08] Let me make sure and get it on the recording.

[43:10] So, with the development against Ryan Road, can you help us understand what type of,

[43:21] if you're

[43:22] of the development to Ryan Road and the construction of that wall?

[43:28] Yeah, absolutely.

[43:29] We are going to have a screening wall.

[43:31] So one of the other things we did is if you notice on the connection to Ryan Road, a

[43:37] lot of developments will typically back lots to Ryan Road.

[43:40] We wanted ours to be kind of set back and create a buffer.

[43:44] So not only do we have the 120 foot buffer along our western edge, we've carried that through

[43:49] across Ryan.

[43:51] We are, as part of our requirements, we're going to have a masonry screen wall across

[43:57] Ryan Road.

[43:59] And then we also have an entry feature that's going to look.

[44:04] John could probably describe it better than I can.

[44:07] But it's going to be an entry monument that has a bridge type fill.

[44:16] as if you were going across a covered bridge and into a

[44:20] ventilation there. I know you had a word for an

[44:24] Appalachian style entry feature and so it'll be a

[44:29] real nice entry way. We've got a divided median for

[44:33] the street that's connecting to Ryan Road so that

[44:36] divided median will have landscaping in it so the

[44:40] amenity center will sit right in here so as you're

[44:43] going westbound on Ryan Road and you look down in through the creek and all

[44:47] you'll be able to see the amenity center, the children's playground and the

[44:50] swimming pool. As you turn into street A we've got an HOA lot so when you turn in

[44:56] you're not gonna you're not gonna see homes right away.

[45:00] We have a masonry screen wall along there as well that kind of protects those first row of homes, so that the headlights aren't shining into homes or backyards or anything. So, we've got real nice landscaping, hardscaping design for this entry. So, there's quite a bit of beautification that's going on right there at Ryan Road. Thank you. Thank you. Please continue.

[45:26] Thank you.

[45:27] Okay.

[45:27] The next question that I had is, with the addition of Creekside now, in addition to

[45:38] Teasley Trails, Forest Meadows, Ryan Meadows, so now we'll have basically four new developments

[45:45] coming in there.

[45:47] There was a traffic impact study for Ryan Road, I believe, done in 2014, and the first question

[45:56] is there, what is the plan to have another study done, now that all these four new neighborhoods

[46:05] are coming in, and this study was done before any of them have basically been in it all.

[46:12] Okay.

[46:12] That'd be something to have to ask staff to speak to, and Haley, or Richard, who would like

[46:18] to take that?

[46:24] At this time, there are no immediate plans for any traffic study that I'm aware of, but as

[46:29] As he mentioned with the impact fees being collected for each of the new subdivisions, the city will ask for that money and have it available when the plans are made for Ryan Road to be fully improved to its full right of way with I think Commissioner back as a follow up question for you.

[46:45] Thank you chair. Hey, nobody's talking about it, but you can correct me if I'm wrong.

[46:50] isn't on our mobility plan, isn't Ryan Road schedule to become either a main

[46:57] arterial or secondary arterial four-lane road possibly even with a medium in

[47:02] the middle. I know that could be way down the road but isn't that in the the

[47:06] plans on our mobility plan? Yes, are the ultimate attendance works be a secondary

[47:09] arterial? Okay. That would be at least 110 feet of right away. Okay. So at least four

[47:13] lanes divided. So that's something to look forward to the problem is that may not

[47:17] happening time soon. Yeah. Okay. That's the ultimate intent. Okay. Okay. But it would be

[47:22] a lot of the traffic that these developments are going to bring in when that happens. Yeah. Okay.

[47:28] Thank you. So I hate to have Haley getting up and down. So maybe if we just keep her here,

[47:35] take your seat right there. Keep her here close. Okay. Sure. Because because the next question,

[47:40] I'm sorry. Yeah. You're fine. Go ahead. Because the next question really becomes,

[47:44] You know, when do we think that'll be with 137 homes here with the other three subdivisions

[47:51] which are hundreds of homes in there with the one, sorry, I don't have the names all

[48:00] down, with the Ryan Meadows there, I think we were just talking about it over Christmas

[48:10] notice that before the beginning of last year, there was a lot of dirt work done, but we didn't see a home in there and we turn around now and there has to be 30 or more homes in there, several waiting on some permits, I think, and then momentarily people start flooding into that neighborhood.

[48:30] they're flooding into, they're flooding into forest

[48:34] meadows and teasily, continuously, you know, we expect to see a huge influx

[48:43] of traffic in there very, very quickly. So can the commission help us to

[48:50] understand when we think that road is going to happen? And you know, where do we

[48:57] We go to make sure that happens before we run into problems both with traffic and both with safety.

[49:03] We also have an elementary school back there, so needless to say, if we've got a lot of traffic there and we have a problem,

[49:10] obviously we have people parking on our right away there in front of Thistle Hills on the median on a regular basis.

[49:21] I didn't realize that was a parking lot, by the way, so that happens on a regular basis.

[49:25] So we have cars all over the place.

[49:29] So question one is, when do we believe that that will actually happen to become a road?

[49:34] And then number two, we talked about this, this kitty that everybody,

[49:41] that all the developers are throwing money into.

[49:44] At what threshold does this kitty hit the mark that says, okay, it's time to spend us

[49:49] and start doing something to the roads?

[49:52] Well, I'll take a stab at that.

[49:54] That's not something that our commission deals with.

[49:57] That's something that actually is going to be internal city staff and policy that they draft.

[50:02] So we can't address when those improvements will be or what the timeframe is.

[50:07] That was something they would need to address to city staff directly on that.

[50:12] I'm sorry that that's just the honest answer that I can give you.

[50:14] Okay, so as we would address that to city staff in a non-event like this, where would we then put that on record for the issue that we have a need out there?

[50:31] Looks like staff would like to weigh in here.

[50:33] or a pension. A lot of that happens every year we look at it, they do a capital improvements plan.

[50:45] What they'll look at is the amount of money that's collected, part of the issue,

[50:49] particularly with Ryan and the applicant's representative kind of headed to the west of you,

[50:57] there's still a lot of single family homes that that a blood Ryan wrote and so there's quite a bit

[51:03] of acquisition that still needs to take place.

[51:06] Some of that occurs when there's a plat.

[51:11] So it's just a matter of acquiring that right away and at what time.

[51:15] When they come into plat, that's usually when the city is able to acquire that land.

[51:21] Otherwise, you're sort of really negotiating with a homeowner to try to purchase them.

[51:29] I'll just throw it said, of course, this is the preliminary flat stage as this development continues.

[51:37] There will be other public forums within this board or with the City Council to put those comments on record.

[51:46] I think is what you were asking, right?

[51:48] Okay.

[51:49] Thank you.

[51:50] Thank you for your comments.

[51:51] My next speaker is Karn Catherwood to be followed by John Dickerson.

[52:08] Good evening gentlemen and ladies.

[52:11] My name is Karn Catherwood.

[52:13] I live at 39-41 Andrew Avenue which is the free way that runs through the middle of

[52:22] We have a huge traffic problem, and I've lived there 11 years, I'm aware of the concerns

[52:31] of most of the people who have moved in since we've been there and those who were there

[52:37] before us. Most of these concerns have been answered by the previous settlement, and I'm

[52:44] grateful to hear some positive answers,

[52:48] and so I won't go back over those issues

[52:51] that he's already addressed.

[52:53] I would like to just mention once again,

[52:55] an emphasize that there is a need for a traffic survey,

[53:01] a traffic study, whether this is something

[53:03] that you guys do or that is a delegator to somebody else.

[53:09] We are very worried about gridlock and Ryan Road.

[53:13] All the new subdivisions, I'm not against them, I'm glad that they're there.

[53:18] We have to fill in the South Denton with folks and that's what we're doing.

[53:24] But Ryan Road is, it's not quite what I would call a mess, but it's getting there.

[53:30] And it's a little fuzzy in my mind whether or not there is a traffic survey plan.

[53:36] There was one done I think in 2014.

[53:38] But with all the housing, all the people, all the cars, you really need to do another one.

[53:44] And it needs to be official, not just something that a developer does.

[53:47] And I'm grateful for the input from those who are developing a creek site, and that's helpful.

[53:54] But something that is official from Country Club to Teasley, the whole length of the road in front of the elementary school,

[54:03] we need something done officially.

[54:05] It'll cost a few bucks, I know.

[54:07] But it would make the people in my neighborhood very happy, and with time it would probably accelerate Ryan road becoming four lanes, which is going to have to become at some point in the future.

[54:19] So I just throw that out there as something for you folks to think about.

[54:23] One other item, and I'll be very brief, when pre-approval was given for Creekside back in August of 2016, those of us who lived next door to them do nothing about it,

[54:35] But it was really done very quietly and very discreetly.

[54:39] We all wish you had been done a little bit more publicly.

[54:43] We wish we had known a little bit about it.

[54:47] We didn't.

[54:48] We thought all that land was still for sale.

[54:50] And I was sort of shocked and surprised just a couple of weeks ago to find out that this

[54:56] kind of development and analysis have been going on for a couple of years.

[55:01] I know it takes time to do this analysis.

[55:03] and the folks involved have done from what I can see

[55:08] a very good job, and I compliment them,

[55:11] but I wish there'd been a little bit more openness about it.

[55:14] It's created a funny impression in my neighborhood,

[55:18] and you don't want to create those kinds of funny impressions,

[55:23] because you have to deal with them

[55:24] and people exaggerate and get worried,

[55:26] and there's no point in that happening.

[55:29] A little bit more openness would have been helpful.

[55:32] I do want to congratulate the developer for the plans for

[55:37] common areas in the new neighborhood.

[55:40] Plans to keep the trees.

[55:42] We were all worried about that.

[55:44] They're going to come in now and cut down all of our

[55:47] beautiful trees that we have hanging over our backyards from

[55:51] the other side of the fence that divides us from the new

[55:56] area for Creekside.

[55:57] They're going to keep, I think he said, 65% or 45% of them.

[56:02] Thank you, thank you, thank you on behalf of the folks who's homes back up to your neighborhood.

[56:08] We'll watch you as you're building your houses because we can see you out there.

[56:13] And thank you as well to whoever did it that the gas well, which was directly and back at my backyard,

[56:20] within 400 feet of my property, is now defunct and dead.

[56:25] And I'm so grateful that we don't have to look out our kitchen window and see that horrible apparatus

[56:30] the apparatus and the infrastructure and know what's going on behind the scenes.

[56:35] I'm off for gas wells, mind you, I know we need them in Texas.

[56:40] But when they were that close to my backyard, that was a little worrisome.

[56:45] Thank you, that is now defunct and we can look at some of my houses rather than have to look at stuff like that.

[56:52] Thank you for your attention.

[56:53] Thank you for your comments, sir.

[56:55] Mr. Clarification, Mr. Dirkson, have you already spoke?

[56:58] Okay, let me go on have a billy caraway

[57:05] 30909 Andrew Avenue.

[57:07] Billy

[57:13] Caraway 30909 Andrew Avenue in our home backs up to the development.

[57:18] I think most of my questions have been answered.

[57:21] I do have a couple to the developer.

[57:24] They had resurfaced run road and then they put the housing addition down at the end and

[57:30] within two weeks all run roads tore up.

[57:33] How are we going to handle this?

[57:34] you know, keeping it from getting tore up during one's construction starts.

[57:39] And the other one is most of the people on Andrew Avenue, oh, has swimming pools.

[57:46] Where are we going to put the batch plants at?

[57:49] Are they going to be right or close to us or are we going to put them back when they start

[57:52] to building the roads out there?

[57:54] Okay.

[57:54] So my two questions.

[57:56] Great.

[57:56] That's all I had, thank you.

[57:57] I'll ask the developers.

[57:58] Last card I have, and he can address those two questions, too.

[58:01] The last card I have is John Dickerson, or if you'd like to have your Mr. Fletcher speak

[58:08] for on your behalf, I'll be fine with me.

[58:11] I'll answer the first question first as far as the batch plan.

[58:15] The batch plan would be located within the development on the outside of the tree preserve

[58:21] kind of in the lots.

[58:24] So typically what they'll do is they'll come in, they'll do all the earthwork, they'll bench

[58:28] the lots.

[58:29] They'll create an area within the lots that's flat where they can set up the batch plant.

[58:34] They'll go in, they'll put all the utilities in.

[58:37] Once they get ready to pay, typically the paving on a project like this is probably only going to take four to five weeks at the most.

[58:46] So the amount of time the batch plant would probably be four to five weeks.

[58:51] In the batch plant would probably be located no closer than 250 feet.

[58:57] I think there's requirements within the city code that we have to follow.

[59:01] I'm not sure exactly what that distance is, but just the areas that would accommodate the batch plan would probably be well over 200 feet from those back property lines.

[59:14] As far as the roadway construction, generally when we go through and have pre-con, the city inspectors go out and they do an inspection of Ryan Road, the existing conditions.

[59:25] The city inspectors are monitoring the contractors throughout the development process.

[59:31] If there's damage to Ryan Road that they fill is directly associated with the construction or specific contractor,

[59:38] they will note that and that will be something that they will have to fix or remedy.

[59:45] So that portion of the process is really, I would say it's really governed or

[59:50] or watched over by the city inspectors, but there is a process to where they're watching

[59:57] the construction and making note of any.

[1:00:00] There are some damages that they feel that were occurred that accounted for by the construction. Okay. I'm Mr. Dr. Roger to the microphone. City staff has all of your contact information for you and your firms are correct. So any of the residents that are here that may have some follow-up questions or so forth, can certainly reach out to Haley and request contact information for you to follow up with additional questions if they have them. Yeah, absolutely. I'd be happy to. The other thing I apologize I didn't bring it tonight.

[1:00:29] We've got some real nice renderings, color renderings.

[1:00:32] If I would have realized, there were a lot of questions I would have brought that and share that with you.

[1:00:38] I'm happy to provide that and share it.

[1:00:41] It shows kind of the tree preserves the trails, the amenities that we're doing.

[1:00:46] It shows the entry feature, it shows the screening fences.

[1:00:50] So if there's interest in that, I would be happy to share.

[1:00:54] That's part of the PADA so it is public it is a public document, but I'll be glad to email that out

[1:00:59] Where can they get that if it's a public document? They could request it through the city

[1:01:04] It's part of ordinance

[1:01:07] 2016-251 the documents a lot of times when they scan the ordinance the quality of the

[1:01:13] Exhibits isn't quite what it would be if I provided the PDF so they can either get it through there

[1:01:19] I'll be happy to to

[1:01:21] Provide that to anyone that would want to copy of it

[1:01:24] Okay, great. Thank you for that. You have something.

[1:01:27] I just wanted to, if someone isn't interested in receiving that document,

[1:01:31] at the end of the meeting, if you want to provide your email address to Athena,

[1:01:35] we can email that out to everyone tomorrow.

[1:01:38] Okay, great. Thank you. That's all the cards that I have here before us.

[1:01:44] This is not a public hearing, but it is an item for individual consideration.

[1:01:48] So, if you would like to speak on the item, you may, you'll need to fill out a card.

[1:01:52] And I have no more cards.

[1:01:56] So with that, I will move us on on this particular item and open the floor up and on Commissioner Sullivan.

[1:02:05] Thank you, Chair.

[1:02:07] My biggest concern about this project is simply the traffic that is going to be the resulting on Ryan Road number one.

[1:02:16] Hickory Creek, second of all, because I don't think that when you look at the size of

[1:02:23] this old hill and how many trips that generates, you're all going to be about the same size

[1:02:29] and who knows how many cars are going to be in there.

[1:02:34] The last traffic surveys has been mentioned was 2014 and that was for disproportion of Ryan

[1:02:40] road, not the entire Ryan Road.

[1:02:42] Since the Antizit Trail has added 167 homes, Ryan Meadows, 141,

[1:02:49] to go along with 150 some odd and fissile hill,

[1:02:53] plus who knows how many enforced ridge in Manicito subdivisions,

[1:02:57] that all forced ridge in Manicito were on the north side of Sharon Rose.

[1:03:04] Elementary schools at both ends, plus a wall mark on the eastern end of it.

[1:03:09] I noticed in the handout that we got this evening for next meeting that a traffic analysis

[1:03:16] required with the development would generate equal to or more than a thousand vehicle trips

[1:03:21] per day.

[1:03:23] Well, obviously one development may or may not do that, the size that we're talking about.

[1:03:28] But when you look at all the developments that have gone in and are relatively short length

[1:03:33] of road, I think that the least the city could do is to perform a traffic survey, spend

[1:03:40] the $896,000 that these guys are putting up, plus who knows how much more teasily and

[1:03:48] Ryan Meadows has put up and make it a full four-lane highway.

[1:03:53] And I don't know if that is a condition that we can add to these people or if it's something

[1:03:59] that maybe needs to be tabled so that the city can do its magic in making sure

[1:04:07] that there is no additional impact on Ryan Road to further deteriorate the

[1:04:12] road and just make it more of a hassle because what's gonna happen is as every

[1:04:16] citizen in this room can attest to the one thing we all agree to is our city streets

[1:04:21] are not very good as a why compound the problem to come in after the fact after all

[1:04:28] these subdivisions have gone in, including the other two phases that they're going to put in,

[1:04:33] and then we're going to tear up Ryan Road and make it a bigger hassle to get up and down the street.

[1:04:39] It just makes no sense to me. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner Beck.

[1:04:46] Thank you, Chair. Actually, Commissioner Sullivan kind of hit a lot of what I wanted to dress too,

[1:04:50] but I did want to go on record and see if we could give some satisfaction to the people that have to

[1:04:56] live out there where there's anybody in city night, Haley, Ron, that can give us an

[1:05:02] idea when we could motivate whoever needs to be to do a TIA traffic impact analysis.

[1:05:09] I agree. It's frustrating to know that this road is going to be widened eventually, but

[1:05:15] not knowing when it's frustrating. We can't get a handle on that as well as we like, but

[1:05:21] The CIA seems like considering all the development that's going on there, we should be able to do that and be able to give assistance and answer when that will happen.

[1:05:30] Is that run, would you be the right person to ask on that, is there, who would be the individual in the city that we could pick on to try and get that started?

[1:05:45] We should also try to attempt to answer that question.

[1:05:48] Of course, Ryan Rowan has always been on our radar, obviously part of our future mobility

[1:05:54] plan and hopefully our CIP program as well.

[1:05:58] I think the people that are in charge are responsible for that are listening, or if they're not,

[1:06:07] we will definitely make sure that they hear you and watch this video to make sure that

[1:06:13] that they hear what the concerns are along Ryan Road is.

[1:06:18] I'm wondering would it be possible to maybe

[1:06:20] Richard or somebody can answer this?

[1:06:23] Could by our next PNZ meeting,

[1:06:25] could we have somebody maybe come to the work session

[1:06:28] and give us a little bit more detailed information

[1:06:30] that we can share with the community?

[1:06:33] Is that possible or a project matrix I ask about that?

[1:06:36] Yes, in fact, at the next meeting,

[1:06:39] we'll be discussing the new criteria manual,

[1:06:42] All right.

[1:06:43] And the capital improvements director,

[1:06:45] city engineer, we'll be here at that meeting.

[1:06:49] So I will let him know to be prepared to answer those questions.

[1:06:53] Right, thank you.

[1:06:54] Thank you.

[1:06:54] Will that be Todd Estes?

[1:06:55] It'll be Todd Estes.

[1:06:56] Okay, and the other contact person might be Jim James.

[1:06:59] Correct.

[1:07:00] Okay, so those would be a couple of city staffers

[1:07:02] that would be in a position that I think address

[1:07:04] some of the questions here before us.

[1:07:08] Commissioner Smith.

[1:07:09] Thank you, Chair.

[1:07:09] I think that the TIA would be a great thing to do, but let's look at the material facts

[1:07:15] what we're talking about tonight.

[1:07:16] We're talking about a development that's ready to come in now.

[1:07:18] Even if the TIA comes back, as Richard has already mentioned, there's further down a

[1:07:23] Ryan road.

[1:07:23] If there wanted to be future expansion, we've got land that still needs to be claimed.

[1:07:30] And we have to wait for the MNO domain, or we have to wait for re-plotting on those lands

[1:07:33] and you tell me when that's going to happen.

[1:07:36] And so the expansion of Ryan Road is unknown and if we had to put at least a timeline on it

[1:07:41] It's probably nothing the next five years if I had if I had to make a wild guess off the cuff

[1:07:45] So sit here and say let's get the TIA done

[1:07:49] The TIA is just gonna come back and tell us exactly what you know. It's it's bogged

[1:07:53] It's gonna be bogged and we're gonna come back. So are we gonna expand Ryan Road?

[1:07:58] Okay, we're not gonna be able to expand Ryan Road tomorrow or next week or next year

[1:08:02] And so I just say put it up for consideration that yes

[1:08:05] Yes, well, a TIA and talk about expanding Ryan Road is great.

[1:08:09] It's not immediate, it's not something that can be done quickly and we have something we have to vote on now and talk about.

[1:08:14] So not really anything more to add to it and just help everyone understand and get some clarity to the actual grow toss of the situation here.

[1:08:22] So, I can just add to that just a reminder that this is a preliminary plan so that this item will come up for final.

[1:08:31] And I think that might give staff some more time to address those concerns.

[1:08:37] Correct.

[1:08:41] Commissioner Smith.

[1:08:43] Motion to accept the city staff's recommendations.

[1:08:47] And are there some conditions on that?

[1:08:50] The recommendation for approval?

[1:08:53] No.

[1:08:54] I think there were.

[1:08:57] The two that are presented in the package, so with the city staff's

[1:09:02] Just a clarification for the guys in the back when they do the records.

[1:09:06] You're welcome.

[1:09:07] So we have a motion to approve with the two conditions as recommended in our back up.

[1:09:12] Okay.

[1:09:12] Commissioner Sanchez.

[1:09:13] I second that.

[1:09:14] Okay.

[1:09:15] We have a first and a second for approval.

[1:09:18] Any discussion?

[1:09:23] I'll make a comment before we vote.

[1:09:25] I would echo Commissioner Sullivan's concerns about ride road and the improvements and a lot of your points were discussed in great detail.

[1:09:36] a number or a couple years ago, I guess,

[1:09:39] when the traffic impact fees came before us

[1:09:41] and were adopted by the city.

[1:09:43] There's a concern expressed at the time.

[1:09:46] Is it worth collecting fees?

[1:09:47] People will move in, finally get enough money,

[1:09:49] and then we'll go tear up the roads.

[1:09:51] And that's unfortunately the way that that move forward,

[1:09:55] and there's gonna be, I think, the process

[1:09:57] for our city going forward to play

[1:09:59] unfortunately some catch up.

[1:10:02] But these gentlemen are contributing

[1:10:03] a significant amount of money to that effort

[1:10:06] above and beyond two times what's currently required and so you know I think

[1:10:11] they're certainly paying their fair share for their impact and their development

[1:10:16] and so with that I'm going to support the motion and I have a comment from

[1:10:20] Commissioner Sanchez. I'm relatively new on this commission and it seems like

[1:10:26] that's one of the big issues we've had every time we've talked about

[1:10:29] developments is that the roads usually I'm gonna be done when the development is

[1:10:34] done. So I don't really see a solution until the funds, those impact funds are collected.

[1:10:42] So it just seems like you're not the only people that are facing this every week or every

[1:10:47] couple of weeks that we meet. We find the same issue over and over again throughout the city.

[1:10:53] And there's no solution at this time, other than when those funds are collected and then

[1:10:59] And the city starts using those funds to be able to expand these roads.

[1:11:05] And just like Mr. Smith said, basically, it's, we don't have the answer.

[1:11:11] But hopefully, as the, as money to get collected, then those roads are, are developed.

[1:11:19] Okay, commissioner back.

[1:11:22] Thank you, Chair.

[1:11:23] I just want to thank everybody for coming out tonight for the citizens and making their presentation.

[1:11:27] and, you know, this commission needs a lot of input from the people out there that we

[1:11:33] serve. I appreciate you coming down. I appreciate Mr. Fletcher, Mr. Dickerson, for their presentation,

[1:11:37] for clearing up a lot of things, as Commissioner Smith suggested. And I know this is just a preliminary

[1:11:42] plan, but community meetings are always a great, great thing to do to all set a lot of concern.

[1:11:48] One of the, one thing I did want to point out that I was delighted to hear you mention is the

[1:11:55] salvaging of I think 60 65 percent of the trees. Yeah, you could have removed a lot more by city center and the fact that you've done that that

[1:12:03] pleases me tremendously. So I'm glad to hear that and I think everybody that lives in that area, I'd recognize the fact that it could have been a lot worse. So these gentlemen

[1:12:11] and being commended for salvaging what they have done there. So thank you for that.

[1:12:17] I can understand the philosophy of gosh, that's not our role and the you know the city works low and this is what we talked about forever.

[1:12:27] But I don't understand the idea that current citizens living in current houses have to pay the price for the city not doing their job.

[1:12:39] and so I don't see why it is we continue as a board to approve developments when we know darn good and well

[1:12:47] other people are going to be negatively impacted and yet we use the idea of growth as the excuse you know what

[1:12:54] people are already here let's take care of our own first

[1:12:57] if speculators want to come in and buy land and build houses someday great for them

[1:13:04] But meanwhile, I think we need to protect our citizens first.

[1:13:10] Commissioner Smith.

[1:13:11] Thank you, Chair.

[1:13:12] Steve, is there anything on my motion or anything you would want to add to a motion that would make it better for the citizens who are currently there?

[1:13:21] That's purely just an informational question that we can go to vote.

[1:13:25] It can be struck down if you bring up a motion or bring up a motion that sounds that'd be more immediately to the situation.

[1:13:32] I've been told that we can't do that, so a condition would be we wait till the traffic impact study is made for the entire Ryan road before any more construction is done, that would be my motion.

[1:13:48] commissioners for not to keep playing tennis ball here.

[1:13:50] Legal, can you give just a public statement for

[1:13:55] plenary flat, it's approved tonight, moves forward.

[1:13:58] How much timeline, how much runway do we think we have to be able to get the PIA and before a final approval for this is done?

[1:14:05] One would final, do we have a schedule done already, final flat?

[1:14:11] I'd have Haley addressed the, I think planning we have a better idea of the timeline.

[1:14:14] The timeline.

[1:14:15] The timeline.

[1:14:16] Yes.

[1:14:17] There's two years between a preliminary plan, the final plan, before the preliminary would

[1:14:21] expire and a new one would be required.

[1:14:24] So that would be the potential time frame in which that could be done.

[1:14:29] But I will say that the final plan for this is in review with staff currently.

[1:14:33] So fairly soon after the gas flow plugging is complete, I expect that that would be ready

[1:14:38] to come before the board.

[1:14:39] do you know I guess the question was talking months weeks? It really depends on the gas

[1:14:48] well in the review of their civil plans, but it would most likely be within the next couple

[1:14:52] of months. Okay. And then up to two years, I mean, I think the state's response now would

[1:14:59] So come final.

[1:15:02] Just to clarify, the TIA would only relate to their project. It wouldn't be for the entire.

[1:15:10] There's nothing we can add on before we prove. I think it would be difficult for the entire length, considering they are contributing to the impact that they are, what was negotiated part of that agreement. Typically, when you look at a road, it's designed to, obviously, a certain capacity.

[1:15:31] capacity, or it can handle certain amount of vehicles per lane.

[1:15:35] It's kind of like that chicken or the egg type approach of what comes first.

[1:15:40] And it starts to, when it starts to, that level of service starts to degrade.

[1:15:44] That's typically when you'll see those improvements move forward.

[1:15:48] With this one, it's a little bit more complicated because there is right away that needs to be acquired.

[1:15:53] As well as, if I'm not mistaken, there's some quite a bit of utility lines that would probably need to be relocated as well.

[1:16:00] So it's it's quite a bit of an undertaking and I'll just add or are we

[1:16:06] referring to that traffic impact study would would be narrowly for that

[1:16:13] development only correct that that's all you get out of it.

[1:16:16] It'd be tough for us to be able to ask for the CIA for an entire road whenever it's

[1:16:21] a world we're only talking about the preliminary planning for one.

[1:16:29] We've got a motion before us and a second for approval with the two conditions as mentioned in back up and see more to any more discussion on my call for a vote on the board.

[1:16:54] Motion is going to carry four to one.

[1:16:56] and that will move us to our public hearing section this evening,

[1:17:07] in the room a minute to clear if people are going to get out.

[1:17:14] Go up any project.

[1:17:25] Thanks for coming out.

[1:17:39] This time I'm going to move on to our agenda item 4A. I'm going to open the public hearing for Z17-0025B.

[1:17:52] This is the item that's going to be continued. Commissioner Beck.

[1:17:55] I move that we move this House to put this forward to the date certain that we were

[1:18:05] twenty first awesome good job Commissioner Smith I'm we have a motion to

[1:18:13] continue to date certain of February the 21st on this item we're going to leave

[1:18:17] it open so it does not need to be re-noticed and no call for a vote on board

[1:18:22] That

[1:18:32] motion is going to carry 5-0.

[1:18:35] As announced at the beginning of our meeting, our items 4-B and 4-C, the Woodlands on

[1:18:41] McKinney Street have both win with drawn, and we do not have a date certain on those.

[1:18:48] So that will conclude our public hearings items tonight, and that will move us to our project

[1:18:54] matrix and concluding items.

[1:18:58] Commissioner Smith.

[1:18:59] Thank you, Chair.

[1:19:00] Richard, is there any kind of conversation we can have, at least there in work, work session that would be

[1:19:07] around what power we have as a commission or recommendation we can make the City Council for

[1:19:12] Developers to have more neighborhood meetings

[1:19:14] And what scenarios we can do that we have we have maybe a report from you guys on

[1:19:19] What we can do to be able to try to put that make that make that a precedent because I think that oh that's a question

[1:19:24] We've been having quite a bit during meetings having

[1:19:26] I mean, call the applicant up here, we'll talk them real quick.

[1:19:30] Have you had a neighborhood meeting?

[1:19:31] Yes, you have, no, you haven't.

[1:19:32] And it seems like every single time it's been the, yes, there's been a neighborhood meeting.

[1:19:37] It's just such a much smoother process.

[1:19:41] Absolutely.

[1:19:41] In fact, we have that as one of the items for the, as part of the code update.

[1:19:47] Okay.

[1:19:47] To sort of formalize that in more, more in the code.

[1:19:51] Just to kind of give a for example, if you remember the palladium, I was telling the chair

[1:19:56] earlier, we had quite a number of folks here speaking, you know, against that.

[1:20:00] Would you say which project that was again, could take me a minute?

[1:20:03] This was the site on, it had a component of affordable housing that was changing to NRMU,

[1:20:12] NRMU12, this was loop and point Seattle.

[1:20:19] When that item came to council, the applicant actually, the very next day, started revising

[1:20:25] their plan went out and met with the neighbors and when we had the public hearing in front

[1:20:30] of the city council, the two ladies that were very outspoken, they were the only ones

[1:20:35] that showed up, sat through five hours of public hearing to get up to speak in support

[1:20:40] of the development. Is the first thing, first time I've ever seen that, am I 22 years doing

[1:20:44] it, but it goes to your point. It goes a long way. So any time an applicant comes forward,

[1:20:51] where now we've been advising them,

[1:20:53] it's really in their best interest to meet with the neighbors.

[1:20:56] I don't think Commissioner Strange could probably

[1:20:58] send a thousand of me here.

[1:20:59] I'd hate to be going to the developers

[1:21:01] and having to throw up another piece of red tape,

[1:21:03] but I don't like adding more bureaucracy to bureaucracy already,

[1:21:07] but there are sometimes some new rules and regulations

[1:21:10] can't speed up a process.

[1:21:11] You had a rule to be able to speed up a process.

[1:21:13] So yeah, if we can have an update on it,

[1:21:16] or if there's no need for it, then I think it's one

[1:21:18] One of those, if you know going into it, it's one thing.

[1:21:22] You can sort of plan that in your schedule, but if an applicant comes in and

[1:21:26] we're through the, and then all of a sudden we bring it on, it's not fair,

[1:21:31] but we just need to be consistent in how we help.

[1:21:33] Sure, thank you.

[1:21:36] Anything else?

[1:21:39] When is the item that I asked for?

[1:21:42] I want to say it's been a few weeks ago, maybe, for Christmas.

[1:21:45] that kind of is the same thing we spent a lot of time on tonight talking about whose responsibility it is on all the paintings.

[1:21:52] Is that going to be next week, or next week, or next week, or next week?

[1:21:54] That will be part of the discussion at the next work session with respect to the transportation manual.

[1:22:02] Great. I'm looking forward to that.

[1:22:04] Thank you for getting that on.

[1:22:05] Okay.

[1:22:06] Anything else?

[1:22:06] Anybody else?

[1:22:08] Okay.

[1:22:08] With that, I'm going to close us tonight at 7.37.

[1:22:12] Thank you, everyone, for coming out.

Planning and Zoning Commission on 2018-01-10 5:00 PM

Agenda

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