[0:00] Okay, welcome to the Monday, October 9th, 2023 city council meeting here in Orno. I know that all council members are present tonight. We always start with the Pledge of Allegiance, so I welcome you to stand and face the flag. Such

[0:18] allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[0:30] All right. Thank you for that. Next has the approval of the agenda, and before we get to the approval of the agenda, I just wanted to take a quick moment of silence for the atrocities that have happened in the state of Israel and all the bad things that have happened.

[0:59] All right. Thank you for that. Okay. Next is the approval of the agenda. And on it, we will vote on everything that's on the agenda with one vote.

[1:06] And I'll go through the list before we vote on it to see if there's any things that people

[1:10] want taken off the list for consent.

[1:13] We'd like to start with the consent agenda tonight.

[1:15] I'll take care of it this evening.

[1:20] Item number 9 and 10 were requested to be pulled by Council Member Benson and I'm looking

[1:29] to add item number 14 and item number 16 to the consent.

[1:35] Is there anything else besides that?

[1:37] So what we've got on the consent tonight is number one, the City Council meeting minutes

[1:41] of September 25th.

[1:43] We have two of the City Council work session minutes of September 25th.

[1:47] We have three claims and bills.

[1:49] We have four approval of interphone loan and transfers.

[1:53] We have five approval of non-waver of tort limits, resolution number 7412.

[1:58] Number six, we have approval of rental license.

[2:02] Number seven, we have approval of the next work session agenda.

[2:05] Number eight, we have approval of Minnesota Department of Public Safety Grant Resolution

[2:09] Number 74-13.

[2:12] We're pulling nine and ten and we'll put those down under the fire report.

[2:17] Number 11 is LA-23-47, Eric Way, 22-45 French Lake Road Barriences Resolution Number 74-14.

[2:27] Number 12 is LA-23-48, share at design, 35-48 ivy place, lot area, lot width, and hardcover

[2:35] variances. Resolution number 74-08. 13 is LA-23-52, Revis Stevenson. 37-60 Watertown

[2:45] Road Variance Resolution number 74-09. We're adding number 14, which is LA-23-26, as

[2:52] on behalf of Dean and Heidi Martinson, 26-05 North Shore Drive Variance Resolution number 7410,

[3:00] and we're adding number 16, which is LA-23-49, Stonewood on behalf of Michael Gorman,

[3:07] 3,001 Casco Point Road, Average Lake Shore Setback Variance Resolution number 7411.

[3:13] Is there any of these items on here that we're going to be voting on that anybody wants to have taken off tonight?

[3:19] Seeing none, I have a motion. Do I have a second?

[3:21] All right, so I can count some from Johnson.

[3:24] All in favor say aye.

[3:25] Aye.

[3:26] Aye.

[3:26] Opposed?

[3:27] No, that passes 5-0.

[3:29] Okay, that'll bring us to our community development report, which we will have number 15,

[3:39] which is LA-23-46, Rebecca Holzum, 34-07 East Lake Street variants.

[3:49] Good evening, Mayor and Council.

[3:51] Just a moment and I will pull up the plans in the area here.

[4:07] Good evening.

[4:08] This application is regarding variances from average lakes or setback, 75 foot setback,

[4:15] hard cover within the 75 foot setback, overall hard cover, all for

[4:20] the construction of a 280 square foot deck that you can see on your screen.

[4:25] The subject property, 34-07 East Lake Street, is located a few locks away from Stubz Bay.

[4:34] Let's see on the aerial here.

[4:36] However, the OHWL extends onto the property, considering it to be a lake lot, and making

[4:44] it subject to not only the 75-foot setback, but also the average lake shore setback.

[4:49] The lot is extremely substandard in size.

[4:52] It's under 5,000 total square feet where the minimum required for the zoning

[4:59] district is two acres. There's an existing home on the property and it is within

[5:05] 75-foot setback. It's also over the allowable hardcover. Variances for this were

[5:14] approved back in 2005 and the house was constructed.

[5:19] The existing home just

[5:21] This currently does not have any outdoor living space of any kind.

[5:25] The previous resolution back in 2005, Resolution 5222,

[5:31] specifically did state that the deck, that any type of deck design or outdoor space was foregone in order to minimize the hardcover request.

[5:40] The current request today is for 280 square foot deck that encroaches not only in the 75 foot setback,

[5:51] but

[5:51] for the site, from 27% to 35%.

[5:56] Staff finds that the property does have some practical difficulties in the small size

[6:00] of the property and the lack of building envelope.

[6:04] Staff finds that a request for outdoor living space when there is none is a reasonable request.

[6:10] And staff also finds that the encroachment into the average lecture setback does not impact

[6:16] the neighboring view of the lake.

[6:17] That being said, the increase in hardcover percentages substantial and the previously approved

[6:24] variance was specific to state that no deck was permitted and future expansion of any

[6:30] hardcover would likely not be supported.

[6:33] Staff is not supported of the requested deck size without any other reduction in hardcover.

[6:40] The Planning Commission held public hearing on September 18th.

[6:43] The Planning Commission noted that the project is not out of character for the neighborhood

[6:48] and believe that there were practical difficulties in place.

[6:51] The commission had a split vote, ultimately recommending approval by a vote of 4 to 2.

[6:58] A member of the public was also there in spoken favor of the project.

[7:02] Staff has not received any additional comments except for the neighbor acknowledgement forms.

[7:09] Staff is requesting City Council review the application.

[7:12] I believe the homeowner was also the applicant is here tonight.

[7:17] Staff is recommending denial of this recommendation.

[7:20] I'm here for any questions as well.

[7:22] Any questions for staff?

[7:25] Is the homeowner here like to come up and talk about their project?

[7:28] You see your name and address, it'd be great.

[7:30] Thanks.

[7:33] My name is Rebecca Holzon.

[7:34] I live at 3407 East Lake Street.

[7:38] When I originally purchased the house in 1996,

[7:42] There was a very small cabin on the property with a small garage, a one car garage that was

[7:51] along the creek. And I went to the city back in 2004, worked with the city, met all

[8:02] of the side variances, et cetera. Although it's stated in the documents that I

[8:14] If you look at the minutes from the August 14, 2004 planning commission, there was conversation during that meeting that I anticipated to eventually add a deck on to the property.

[8:31] Apparently that was not noted in various communications since I've started this process.

[8:39] My process is two parts, when I built the house, the city, I don't know, inspectors reviewed

[8:50] my soil, said that the soil needed to be tested, I ended up spending over $45,000 to put

[8:58] helical piers under my house, which substantially will cause a lot of problems with the budget,

[9:05] let's put it that way.

[9:06] So, I ended up putting a vinyl side in my house, et cetera, and this project with the deck is also included in a project where I'm reciting the house and all the tram with hearty signing.

[9:21] And so, I wanted to work with this construction company to add a deck at this time.

[9:29] As mentioned, I am the only person on my neighborhood, the side of the street I live in, also across the street that does not have any outdoor living space.

[9:43] Never had a deck. All I have is a front driveway and that's not usable for entertaining, enjoying the outdoors.

[9:52] I did go through the neighborhood and on my side of the street I reviewed all the decks

[9:59] and patios that were in my neighbor's yards and I took measurements and the average

[10:07] square footage of those decks is actually over 300 square feet.

[10:14] So when you look at all the different properties and you can see up across there all of the

[10:19] decks pretty much run from one edge of the household to the next. I don't think I'm being greedy

[10:29] and asking for the size of deck that I am. Where the mere fact is, smaller deck would

[10:35] not allow for outdoor furniture such as sofa, chairs, table, chairs, and a grill. My house

[10:45] is extremely small. It's hard for me to entertain with such a small space so it would be nice to have

[10:52] the extra space outside or entertaining in the summer months. When I was sitting here during the

[11:03] planning councils or admissions meeting I found it interesting how some members disagreed but others

[11:13] strongly disagreed and they were most of them in agreement that the 2004-2005 approval

[11:25] of hardscape should not be a factor in this particular request since it's been almost

[11:33] 20 years since that time, things have changed, rules have changed, etc.

[11:38] I guess I'm just very humbly asking that with, along with the planning commission who

[11:51] voted four to two in favor, that you all see and can acknowledge that during extended

[12:01] conversations, during the planning commission meeting, that you will agree as well.

[12:06] questions for the applicant.

[12:10] I have one with that.

[12:11] Can you go back to this?

[12:15] But I was with the average lake shore setback.

[12:18] If you had a deck that folded on itself

[12:20] and didn't come out as much,

[12:22] would that improve the lake shore setback?

[12:26] If you had it where it became down three

[12:28] and then turned and went back.

[12:30] So it didn't protrude all the way.

[12:32] Well, unfortunately, there is a patio door on the lower level.

[12:37] And if you tried to do that,

[12:39] it would block all views of the lake of the creek so you know we were very

[12:45] thoughtful in designing the deck and putting the stairs where they are to maximize

[12:52] the views from the interior of the house and also allow for that availability to

[13:01] go into the yard.

[13:02] line

[13:07] right there is the average. Yeah and also I did hurt the planning commission. One of the

[13:17] stipulations I guess in making their approval was that I go to the Mini-Haha Creek Watershed District

[13:24] and get pre-approved for permits. I did go to them and per the details with trade

[13:34] We need Jonas with the many how-how Creek Watershed District.

[13:38] I do not require permits.

[13:40] I'm not in a position where it would be detrimental to the creek.

[13:46] Anything else for the applicant?

[13:49] We want to call you back.

[13:51] Thanks.

[13:57] Any thoughts?

[14:01] It's always tough when someone has been in a built a house and said that they don't need

[14:12] But, you know, what a lot of people do is they want to maximize the house, so they just,

[14:17] because I've had houses that were built next to me, and they maximize the house, put no decks in.

[14:21] And the people who bought it came and said, where's my deck, and I go, you don't get a deck

[14:26] because they built such a big house, they wanted to maximize the house, and so, but then the rules

[14:32] changed a little bit since then in terms of the zero to 75 and the hardcover and how that's figured

[14:36] out, so then now they have a deck, because that has changed. But this is a really small lot.

[14:41] This is, I mean, is there lots even smaller than this?

[14:48] Not sure, but it is one of the smallest that I've seen.

[14:51] The way the creek comes back, is this actually considered a lakeshore as well?

[14:55] Yes, because the OHWL extends onto the property.

[15:00] We're taking the 75 from there. And the interesting thing is that they're only getting the average

[15:07] lake source that back from one of the neighboring properties, not both. But it is a unique

[15:15] line that is situated like this and it has to adhere to my

[15:31] neighbor to the west. Came to

[15:34] the city requested the build of a 20 by 20 garage. And if you look at that, where she's

[15:43] pointing right now, that is only 19.5 feet off of the creek, where the deck I'm proposing

[15:51] is more than 26 feet off of the creek.

[15:54] Were they replacing something that was there, or they built a brand new garage back there?

[15:59] There was no structure there at the time that they applied for their variance.

[16:04] They also changed the driveway.

[16:07] They were also asked to remove certain hardscapes, which they initially did, but they have

[16:12] since put back.

[16:16] And here's the thing, when I came to the city, it's like, I didn't want to just add a deck.

[16:24] And that was one of the comments in the August 14-20-04 meeting is one of the planning commissioners.

[16:35] It had that a lot of people come back and without approval add decks no matter what.

[16:42] And I'm not doing that. I'm trying to be honest. I'm trying to be upfront. I'm trying to do this the right way.

[16:46] and I just find it hard to believe that 3409 has 48% hard cover and there

[16:56] a lot is 6 feet wide in line and I'm just increasing to 30, what is it, 35, 35%

[17:06] hard cover. So a lot that's greater in size than mine is has more hard

[17:12] landscape in my tiny little lot.

[17:14] And if you look at the house, my house is very tiny.

[17:18] And, you know, I followed all the parameters when, you know,

[17:22] I built the house back in 2005.

[17:26] And I would just like a little more grace, so to speak,

[17:33] in allowing me to add this deck.

[17:36] Yeah.

[17:39] A lot of work at the major part of the lake is

[17:59] I don't know what the hardship would be for adding additional hardcover, I mean, it's a 25% hardcover area, it's already in excess.

[18:09] And they have a original variance, I think, bump them up to 27.

[18:14] Yeah, they're at 27.63 according to what we are providing the packet anyway.

[18:22] So they're, the lot, a lot of those for 25% hardcover, it's over hardcover right now.

[18:32] And I can't think of an example of wanting more, you know, school,

[18:39] or were we just given more hard cover?

[18:41] I guess that's what I guess I struggle with is obviously

[18:46] the smallness of a lot is it's own hardship

[18:49] and practical difficulty.

[18:50] We've got a lot of lots like that.

[18:51] I'm Crystal Bay Road, where Mr. T. Henderson is sitting back there

[18:56] and a number of other houses were really, really small lots

[19:01] that they all kind of fit in the same,

[19:05] but they're all way over the hard cover

[19:07] because the lots are just so small.

[19:09] There's just not a lot, it's hard to work with that.

[19:13] Obviously, we've always taken the strides

[19:15] that we want houses to be functional.

[19:18] It's not our job to design them, obviously.

[19:21] And I think people need to have decks.

[19:23] I think the problem that you struggle with is

[19:25] somebody wanted to build a, well, you built it, right?

[19:28] You wanted to build the biggest house you could.

[19:30] And if you had a deck, you may not have got

[19:32] as big a house back then.

[19:40] Well, you see the game in the yang of that

[19:41] because we have people that are trying to omit things and then in the middle of the night

[19:45] they put back things in place that they wanted, but we do want them to be functional because

[19:53] we want the practicality of living and having to act and enjoying your house and your yard.

[20:00] It's the struggle of how it got there, but I'm sympathetic for sure.

[20:05] Could you come up to the mic one more moment please?

[20:11] The one that you're proposing is like a 14 by 20, is that correct?

[20:18] Are there other hardscapes you could omit on the property if for sake of argument of just

[20:24] having that conversation?

[20:29] Well, you're not getting any pervious surface credit on your survey, so that means?

[20:38] We don't give credit if it's in the 75 foot setback, we don't give that 100 foot credit that we would if it was outside of that setback, but yes, I think you're thinking about the 100 foot square foot.

[20:52] I'm talking about a driveway or a walk.

[20:56] Oh, okay, you drink it that way.

[20:58] You know, those, you could pick up a hundred square feet of, so you get up, right?

[21:07] A hundred square feet, credit.

[21:09] If she did like a pervious walkway in the front or something.

[21:12] If it's, if it's pavers instead of, you must have a cement sidewalk or something.

[21:22] So you could switch a hundred square feet of it to, that's 10 by 10, a hundred square

[21:31] feet of it to pervious surface, and then you could add a hundred square feet or I would

[21:40] be open to adding 100 square feet onto the deck, because your hardcover wouldn't go

[21:46] up that.

[21:48] Because we have a credit, you get a 100 square foot credit for a deck, and a normal

[21:53] situation.

[21:53] So I have a single car garage, but a double wide driveway that when I have visitors, people

[22:01] aren't parking on the street.

[22:05] And I guess what you want me to just pick up all my half my driveway in the walkway.

[22:14] Well, I'm not making any suggestion what compromises you make, but

[22:18] what I'm just trying to give you another way to look at it is you're not taking advantage

[22:23] of the 100 square foot credit that you can get that helps small lots by using

[22:31] in encouraging people to use pervious surfaces like pavers as an example.

[22:38] And if you removed a 100 square feet, then you would have a 100 square feet transferable.

[22:45] So you could have a 10 by 10 deck as an example of that 100 square feet.

[22:51] I'm just trying to give you some ideas, because I'm not necessarily supportive of adding hard cover to the lot.

[23:00] But that might be a way for you to maybe get part of what you want

[23:04] So the only thing I can see there that makes sense because I don't think the driveway makes sense a lot, but you do have a walk

[23:11] A walk and there's a it says walk in patio on there. So I'm that exactly what that is there's what the dimensions

[23:19] My second floor is what's covering that so-called patio

[23:26] So that can't be removed

[23:29] support beam is coming down to support that second floor right there.

[23:37] Well, the hard cover is calculated what she's got there.

[23:42] For I've raised to 267, the walk is 41.

[23:49] Maybe you just look at reducing the size.

[23:53] Because I do see some practical difficulty with having the creek right there.

[23:59] It's a very small lot.

[24:02] When I came to the city back in 2004,

[24:08] I was coming as my own general contractor.

[24:11] And I know I'd be dealing with this right now.

[24:15] I would have adjusted the size of that house,

[24:20] as I mentioned before.

[24:21] It was more of a financial situation at that time,

[24:24] not to add a deck.

[24:25] It was always my intention to add a deck, and I know that I'd be standing here today

[24:32] or getting more of that.

[24:34] I probably would have adjusted some things in the house.

[24:39] Unfortunately, I did.

[24:41] It wasn't a matter of deceiving anybody to get the most hardscape.

[24:45] I was just trying to build a house that was livable, that had a decent sized kitchen,

[24:52] living room, two bedrooms, where I came from a house that was only 563 square feet.

[25:00] And unfortunately I stand here today with a conundrum as to how I add some decent

[25:10] outside living space. That's usable. When you look at a 10 by 10 deck you're now

[25:16] adding a six inch railing around it and then you have to add the stairs someplace so you're

[25:25] ending up with a very small deck that is really not used at all. You can maybe put two chairs out

[25:32] there and that would be it. You know where do you put a table? You feel you definitely need stairs

[25:37] from there? Yes it is the second level and it's also a safety issue the only way of getting in my

[25:46] My house is the front door, the door off of the garage, and that patio door.

[25:51] So if there's ever a fire on the lower level of my home, I have no way out.

[25:57] By adding this, there isn't a door there right now, so I have to add a door, so that's

[26:01] an added expense.

[26:03] By adding that door, then that allows me to safely get out of my house if there is a fire.

[26:09] The stairwell within my house is very narrow, it's kind of a square where you come up, it

[26:16] kind of turns, comes up, and turns again, it's hard to bring furniture and stuff into

[26:21] my house or take things out, this would allow me a little bit easier access to bring things

[26:29] in and out of my home.

[26:32] I do like the suggestion that Matt's going to brought up of trying to figure out if we can

[26:35] find 100 square feet, we'll give you the other 100 square feet that gives you 200 square

[26:39] feet which maybe isn't a 14 by 20 it's a 12 by 15 or 12 by 16 still very

[26:45] functional size.

[26:49] The stairway is you know I'm not sure about the stairways I just

[26:53] had just more square finish going down but we have the quandary if we we built

[26:58] the house with agreement not you know to foregoal essentially so we're gonna

[27:04] revisiting that. Unfortunately, I don't know. I don't know. hindsight's always 2020, right?

[27:11] Thanks for coming up. I was willing when I spoke to the planning commission to deduct

[27:18] four feet along the west side. So it'd be four feet by 14. On the west side of what?

[27:31] It's by the existing garage on the side of the existing garage. So of the deck removing 4 feet

[27:40] by 14 feet. So that would shave off a substantial amount right there. So instead of 14 you'd have to be at 10 by 14.

[27:49] So it would end by 20.

[27:55] 16 by 14.

[27:58] I

[28:05] think obviously pointed out by the Planning Commission is a 4-to-2 vote.

[28:09] It's a very tricky thing and a lot of that has gone into it on your end.

[28:14] At this point, I can't change the past.

[28:17] Obviously, what if?

[28:18] But I think if you make a...

[28:20] I'd be...

[28:21] All right.

[28:22] If you had some size difference in the deck to meet in the middle, I think middle ground is where the solution lies.

[28:29] So I would be in favor of that.

[28:33] Are you willing to allow that for production?

[28:45] I would be.

[28:47] I'd be in favor of it.

[28:49] What is the stone walk?

[28:50] Is that just pebbles, just rocks, lands?

[28:54] It's just some stepping stone.

[28:55] Oh, it's just stepping.

[28:57] That's not part of the heart cover.

[28:58] Is that part of the heart cover?

[28:59] It's being calculated, yeah.

[29:05] Stepping stones are.

[29:08] The way that it was brought to us, it has been calculated towards the hardcover.

[29:13] Yes, we can take a closer look at it and see if there's anything that can be deducted

[29:20] from it.

[29:21] Do we have those calculations?

[29:23] Are they in the packet?

[29:24] Yeah.

[29:25] They're in there.

[29:27] It's not necessary.

[29:28] I think it's 56 feet or so mad that you have more of an issue with it's the depth.

[29:33] No, my issue is that expanding the hard cover isn't something that we've done to an existing because they want to add a deck.

[29:47] I mean, if they want to reduce the 100 square feet, there's some room to have some, but no, I wasn't really supporting a deviation from that.

[29:57] Currently

[30:00] The stone walk in the front is 53 square feet. So I'm not sure how much of that could be reduced.

[30:08] The front are in the backyard. We got the side yard. That's where it says stone walk is on the side. It's the only way to get into the back of my yard. It's walking around the house. In the hardcover calculations are dated currently. The survey is an old one. So the hardcover calculations came from an existing

[30:32] I'm sorry, no, the survey is new.

[30:35] It's recent.

[30:36] The survey is new and the hard-covered conditions are.

[30:47] You are standing in the back of my house.

[30:50] If you try to get to the back of the house on the west side,

[30:55] there is a huge tree that I refused to cut down when I built the house.

[31:02] However, there are roots coming out,

[31:04] and there's just a very narrow space between those roots

[31:07] and my air conditioner to get back into the yard,

[31:11] so the only way being able to get into the backyard

[31:13] is on that east side.

[31:16] And as it's what he frequently, it was difficult.

[31:21] I will barrel through there on what would you call it mulch.

[31:28] I took it upon myself to put a more stable surface.

[31:32] And there's quite a different amount

[31:35] of distance between the rock and I have planted moss in between there but if

[31:41] that's something where you're saying I need to get rid of what is it 53 square

[31:45] feet yes I can do that and go back to the way things work because that's 53

[31:52] square feet and your your little walk with and that's in the front is 41 square

[31:58] there's 94 right there yeah but how do you get in my house it's very

[32:06] difficult yeah I don't know if you you said you pulled up a photo of it yeah

[32:14] it's

[32:19] I know this is really difficult, I know what it is.

[32:23] That goes back to the, I think that's why we have a delay.

[32:26] I shouldn't do that.

[32:27] No, better than that, what do you have?

[32:30] Not just that.

[32:31] And they get to vote.

[32:32] Yes, it is.

[32:33] With a condition that I go to the Minihaha Creek Watershed District,

[32:38] and it pre-approval, and they said I do not need permits.

[32:43] But I think with the reduction to the 16 by 14 deck,

[32:51] I'm in agreement with what councilmember Johnson said regarding not wanting to intrude further on the hardcover issue.

[33:00] And that's.

[33:02] But yet you've allowed the neighbors to the west 48% hardcover.

[33:07] That's kind of confusing to me.

[33:09] Right, and I won't be able to speak to that.

[33:11] That's something maybe that's historically in the ordinances that have changed over time in the city of Orno.

[33:17] And I can't rewrite history, however that happened or whenever that happened in the past.

[33:24] It sounds like ordinances or rules have changed over time with regard to hardcover in the 75 foot.

[33:31] I wouldn't be able to speak to that as well as Natalie.

[33:33] No, my understanding and I wasn't here when this, when the neighborhood property went through.

[33:40] But I believe there was some sort of replacement and that's why.

[33:44] But again, you said there wasn't a garage there, so I remember that one, because I remember it was a really odd one.

[33:53] I think it was an old, very dilapidated, like, condamped, yeah.

[33:58] And so they were just in a replacement, yeah, so they got a replacement for what was there, because they left it.

[34:06] They never tore it down, they came in first to get a replacement, but it was, but there was something there.

[34:10] But then obviously that goes way back from when actually it was there, but I still will

[34:16] come back to I think what Maria talks about I mean I I think there's a middle ground

[34:22] I think I need I want to teach houses to be livable they need to be livable I think maybe

[34:28] mistakes were made back when it was done then said I'll just for goal this and hopefully

[34:34] I can solve it later down the road but I think if you're I would say if you can get rid

[34:39] of that stone walk on the side, because I don't have any stone walks to go around my house,

[34:44] you're going to walk in the grass of around my house or the mulch.

[34:47] You know, otherwise people come inside and they go through and they go out the back door.

[34:52] So I think that would be an easy one.

[34:54] I think you need to keep the driveway in the walk, because you need, like you said, a way

[34:58] to get in your house.

[34:58] You need access to that.

[34:59] But I'd be, if you get rid of that and reduce the, the deck, I guess I, I think that would

[35:04] be a good compromise.

[35:04] To like a, what was it, 16 by 14?

[35:09] 16 by 14, and that almost sounded like a motion.

[35:16] I forgot to let everybody still have some more conversation before that, but.

[35:20] I know I have too much more to add, other than I do agree that if there's a solution that can be worked out with regard to that hard-governed difference, then I'm amenable to that.

[35:30] I think that's reasonable.

[35:32] I make a motion with the verbiage of removing and going to a 16-14.

[35:38] And so I see that there would be reasonable, because I do feel like with this lot in the creek there, there is a practical difficulty, a very small lot.

[35:50] I think I agree with the mayor.

[35:52] There is a middle ground here.

[35:54] We have a motion, do I have a second?

[35:56] and to approve with the Stonewalk

[35:59] approval of the six-to-by-fourteen.

[36:01] So we would, I haven't brought forward a resolution yet.

[36:05] That's just for direction.

[36:06] So I would come back with an approval resolution with those

[36:10] stipulations that it's a 16-by-fourteen

[36:13] and that the removal of the...

[36:14] So basically the motion is then to bring a resolution

[36:17] in the next...

[36:17] With those elements and then a site plan,

[36:21] that would manage that.

[36:22] Okay. Is that though?

[36:23] is what's on here, the 20 feet of the deck and then you have another 3 feet of or 4 feet of stairs there so it's 24 feet long or is it 20 feet?

[36:37] Oh no, the house is 24 feet and it's from my own question. So you have 4 foot wide of stair.

[36:42] Right. So yeah, guys, here's an extra. You should address what your total width you're talking about.

[36:49] Well, she hadn't mentioned that she would reduce four feet from the last was her actual deck would be 14 by 16 and then there would be the four foot stairs and then the addition of the stairs.

[37:04] I would just bring that to their attention that it's right. Yeah, the state is you get a four full white. So how much of that would actually be on the ground, not in the air with the deck, but in terms of the stairs.

[37:14] Yes.

[37:15] Probably just the landing pass, 4x4.

[37:23] 4x4 landing pass.

[37:24] 16 square feet, which is basically a 4x4.

[37:33] Okay, so I've got a motion in a second.

[37:35] Any other thoughts?

[37:37] Okay, my favorite say aye.

[37:38] Aye.

[37:39] Opposed?

[37:40] Aye.

[37:40] Okay, note that pass is 4 to 1 to bring a resolution to us in a couple of weeks, right?

[37:44] Yeah.

[37:45] Okay, we'll see you then.

[37:46] Thanks.

[37:49] Okay, put my sheet back here.

[37:51] 4 to 1.

[37:52] Okay, that'll bring us to our, Laura, do we have any more community development report here?

[37:58] I

[38:06] have the permit revenue slide.

[38:08] I can share with you.

[38:17] So in front of you is the permit revenue slide so far a year to date.

[38:21] We are up out about 75,000 from 2022 at this time, so we are above our projections and on

[38:32] the right track and very busy with permits on that side. We have about 130 permits that

[38:40] we issue last month. That's right on par with what we've done the last few September's

[38:45] compared to 2022 and 2021 so we're right on track with all those permits as well. Staff

[38:53] is busy this week prepping our planning commission packet with planning commission meeting coming

[38:58] up next week. We published our legal notice with that with seven applications and then one

[39:05] text amendment for that retaining wall in the shoreland we finished working through with some

[39:09] minor adjustments with the DNR comments and so that will be presented for a public hearing at the

[39:14] planning commission on this coming month. So with that we're just kind of eight on track trying to

[39:21] wrap up end of summer projects and get permits out before things get very cold. But I'd be happy to

[39:29] So we're at 623,000 right now for a year to date.

[39:33] So what's our budget again?

[39:35] I forget.

[39:42] I have 65, okay.

[39:45] All right, that's all I had.

[39:47] That's everything else for Laura?

[39:49] All right, thanks.

[39:50] Thank you.

[39:51] All right, we're over to run for a finance report.

[39:54] Thank you, Mayor.

[39:55] Just to have a couple quick items, a couple of weeks ago, I told you that we had sent out the certification letters for

[40:03] on the 8 utility bills. Total unpaid at that time was $122,000 and now we're down to $101,000.

[40:12] By the time we actually certify them, I would assume we'll be down around $80,000.

[40:16] Which is good. We reckon much prefer to collect the money in a timely manner than certify it.

[40:23] And then the other bit of information or news is we are a few noticed up above.

[40:28] of you see the new look that of what's being streamed.

[40:33] We are now live with the swig at doing it from a distance.

[40:40] So this is the first night.

[40:41] So hopefully, everything continues to go smoothly.

[40:45] And nobody in the back room running this,

[40:47] it's just all being done remotely.

[40:49] It's been a while, but we're finally there.

[40:51] We're there.

[40:52] That's awesome.

[40:54] All right, anything else for for run?

[40:58] That will bring us to Josh in our parks report with the, we have number 17 which are events

[41:04] sponsorship program.

[41:12] Thank you, Mayor and council.

[41:14] So tonight staff is bringing our request from the park commission.

[41:20] We've started going about doing community events.

[41:23] In the past we've had learned dog days over the last four years now we've had the annual

[41:29] tree lighting, a little pause with during COVID, but it has continued to grow over these

[41:34] last few years. And one issue that the Part Commission has been running into is as they

[41:41] go out to solicit donations. I think there's been a little, there's been some questions

[41:47] as to what benefit is it to those businesses? How do we even get this money to you?

[41:58] And

[41:59] for a sponsorship program, with that sponsorship program we'll have different tiers of support.

[42:06] So for the base tier, it's a certain dollar amount you would receive maybe some recognition

[42:13] at the City Council, your company logo or name would be show up in a newsletter.

[42:20] And then it just increases from there.

[42:23] So give away a few golf passes to the Oronal Golf Course, maybe some other golf courses

[42:29] if anyone wants to donate.

[42:32] So yeah, we're just trying to create more of a formalized process

[42:34] for a sponsorship program. And this is something that as staff, we can't go out and solicit

[42:41] donations, elected officials can't do it. So it would really be down to our park commission

[42:45] to take this. And it also would be something that would be active on our city website as well.

[42:52] So, when people, perhaps condition good solicit donations, are they tax deductible if they

[43:01] give it to the city?

[43:03] I don't believe it would be, Ron, I would do the standard disclaimer they should check

[43:10] with their tax purpose.

[43:12] So, there's kind of a lead-in question because what my point in the end was going to be is

[43:18] There is the ornal legacy 501c3 that you could potentially steer them to them to make the donation because then becomes tax deductible and then they can pull those dollars to you on behalf of the donor with that information.

[43:35] and so I just want to make sure that those avenues,

[43:38] because I know having to be tax deductibles,

[43:40] sometimes some people maybe don't care,

[43:43] but I know some people do care,

[43:44] so I just want to make sure that those opportunities

[43:46] are available or being told to them as well.

[43:50] And one way that this is maybe a little different

[43:53] from the 501C3 is that a lot of our donations are hot dogs

[43:58] or brots or cookies that are donated to us.

[44:02] So again, we want to be able to-

[44:04] Which makes sense to recognize their contribution to the city and have them feel like they're partnering with yeah

[44:11] No, I know at the tree lighting ceremony. We get the lions there. We get

[44:17] Other groups that are bringing food and drinks and all that kind of stuff

[44:20] So yeah, I know this it could be a great. I think it's a great idea to have that set up like that one's is done stuff and yeah

[44:26] Longers done stuff so nice. No, the thing Josh didn't tell you is that with the program that

[44:32] that he and Kim came up with is based off

[44:35] what our neighboring cities do.

[44:39] Chaskar or Chan Hasen.

[44:40] Chan Hasen, a lot of this is borrowed from.

[44:45] The ideas are.

[44:46] Good idea.

[44:47] This is a good problem to have.

[44:48] I mean, we only started really going out looking

[44:50] for donations for like the two lightings here.

[44:52] Just a few years ago, so we really haven't

[44:57] really done that a whole lot.

[44:58] So I think this is a great idea to-

[45:00] If we can ramp up and have more momentum with that, I know where people come in and just give donations out of their goodness of their heart. Like, I know, Richie Anderson for the dog, for the police department, does that? And a number of other people have done that for the police department and for the department and that kind of stuff, too. So I think it's a great idea. I'm fully supportive of it, absolutely. And one of our other thoughts for this program is that it's not specific to parks. This could be for our fire department. It could be for our police department.

[45:29] any future events that they would like to run with, individuals or businesses can contribute to that, and then that would go into their fund for.

[45:37] And I think it's a great idea.

[45:39] Josh, do neighboring cities also have their parks commission typically organize these types of ventures?

[45:44] It could be a Chamber of Commerce, that does it, but yeah.

[45:48] My only, and I think it's good to formalize processes for sure.

[45:53] The question I have is about that 501-C3, that's not something I know a lot about as it relates to our parks department.

[46:00] And when we talk about people donating money that goes into a 501-C3, that then comes back to the city.

[46:05] That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, so I'm wondering what the explanation would be on that end financially.

[46:11] So this, what this program here has nothing to do with the 501-C3?

[46:15] But we're talking about people donating money to the 501-C3 that then comes into the city.

[46:20] Or no, what we're talking about right now is a sponsorship program.

[46:25] Yes.

[46:26] So, example, tree lighting ceremony,

[46:32] lens viral leaves in the past has donated a bunch of cookies.

[46:36] If they, in this example, donated $500 worth of cookies or less,

[46:42] they would be a bronze sponsor of that event,

[46:46] which entitles them to all the things that's in the bronze.

[46:49] they be listed as one of the sponsoring entities and those sorts of things.

[46:54] These are direct donations to the city.

[46:58] I think what the mayor was talking about is another means for folks to donate to city activities,

[47:05] particularly on parks, is there is a 501-C3 that was set up a number of years ago.

[47:11] So, it's a nonprofit that has a mission to collect and money for parks, park projects.

[47:21] I personally would see that more as a capital type thing if we were to do that.

[47:25] No, that would definitely work.

[47:26] That would definitely work.

[47:26] No, that would definitely work.

[47:26] That would definitely work.

[47:27] The last time it was used was Big Island.

[47:30] When we did the Big Island project, a bunch of folks entities donated to that 501-C3 and

[47:36] In turn, provided that those resources to the city for that particular, your mark for that particular project.

[47:45] This is a more general, you normally events type thing.

[47:50] I think holiday tree lighting, lort and dog days, you know, within the future we have fun runs or things like that associated with the police department.

[48:00] You're talking about durable goods that are donated, that are not necessarily going to be tax deductible for these purposes, but we'll get records.

[48:07] It doesn't preclude cash, but-

[48:10] But you're looking essentially to get recognition, and yeah, that makes sense.

[48:16] But that was going to be one of my questions that we've already addressed now is how is this program separate from any other programs related to public private partnerships, 501-C-3 other types of funding sources.

[48:28] is this completely separate? Nothing about this program has anything to do with other

[48:32] monies. Okay. I only just brought it up just to make

[48:36] a way because we did as an example in the couple of years ago we had a local family

[48:41] that wanted all the money for the fireworks for the tree lighting and they wanted to be taxed

[48:50] deductible so we suggested if you want to tax that but then you can donate a legacy and the

[48:57] then it's a funnel, but then they get a tax deduction for that.

[49:01] I was using the dollars that they provided.

[49:03] So it's just an option if somebody has cash had nothing to do with this as it was more

[49:07] just bringing it up to make sure everybody is aware of that stuff.

[49:12] This is a program most separately by itself, so was anybody have any more thoughts on the

[49:17] structure of the program and what they've got set up?

[49:21] When are you hoping to implement this?

[49:22] Because this would involve website changes, presumably, or other types of publications about this process.

[49:31] Yeah, we're, this is something we've been talking about for a few years now.

[49:36] We are hoping to roll it out as soon as we can, we'd have to get a page set up on our website, we'd have to get flyers out, which we are starting to create already.

[49:48] One other question I had, Josh, is this, is this process been talked about in regular

[49:53] parks meeting?

[49:54] I always like to go back and try to figure out where these conversations are happening

[49:57] or is this in subcommittees or work sessions?

[49:59] Where is these conversations been had?

[50:00] For sure it's happened in our subcommittee, so for our events planning subcommittee, mainly

[50:06] for the tree lighting event, we've had these discussions.

[50:09] I don't recall if we've had it.

[50:15] I think it's helpful in the future when initiatives are coming about to have that record

[50:19] of them, I know I appreciate that, so that's an aside, but thank you for this.

[50:24] Any other questions for staff on this?

[50:27] I'll make a motion.

[50:30] I'll make a motion to approve the event sponsorship program.

[50:34] I'll second that.

[50:35] On favor say aye.

[50:37] Aye.

[50:38] Aye.

[50:39] Aye.

[50:44] Aye.

[50:44] Anything else, Josh, on parks?

[50:46] Yeah, so we are getting close to end of season.

[50:49] Mainly for golf and parks.

[50:52] All the trees are starting to drop leaves pretty quick now.

[50:55] We have another couple inches of rain coming our way,

[50:57] which is great news.

[50:59] Not so great for the golf course.

[51:02] We had a very strong year at the golf course this year.

[51:05] We are about $40,000 over where we were last year.

[51:09] So we keep seeing these increases,

[51:11] not just in revenue, but also in play.

[51:14] So, this year we saw, again, almost a 40% increase in junior rounds, which we love to

[51:21] see.

[51:22] So, our clubhouse manager, Kim, has done a great job.

[51:25] She brought in a junior league this year.

[51:28] Yeah, very fun to see them out there.

[51:30] They were our most dedicated golfers this year, and we're looking to continue to grow that

[51:36] program.

[51:37] So, we're really excited about the future of the golf course.

[51:40] I mean, sales are great, but now to see just the enthusiasm at the golf course are really

[51:45] happy to really invest in that right now.

[51:50] Other updates, so we are doing our annual maintenance, our early maintenance at work right

[51:56] now.

[51:57] So, it's pretty drastic change.

[52:00] You'll see all the grass.

[52:01] It's all moved.

[52:03] It's all moved down.

[52:03] All moved down.

[52:04] Yeah, we're going to be doing some trail projects this fall.

[52:07] And then, yeah, I guess moving forward, it's all about irrigation blowouts and putting the golf course event.

[52:15] Oh, yes.

[52:17] We've also contracted with SEMS to serve.

[52:21] They were with Hennepin County corrections.

[52:23] They were out around City Hall this weekend.

[52:26] They will also be in Highwood Park, the rest of this week, removing buckthorn.

[52:30] So it's a great asset for us.

[52:33] It's great for us to work with them.

[52:35] We have a very cool program and they've done amazing jobs so far.

[52:39] Josh, what did you say they were doing the management of the buckthorn, which park?

[52:43] Highwood Park.

[52:44] I would.

[52:45] Yeah.

[52:46] Right off of.

[52:49] How much do they expect to clear?

[52:51] Is it like a week long or a couple weeks?

[52:53] We have 21 days contracted with them.

[52:56] Okay.

[52:57] And how often does the city contract with sentencing serve for this type of service?

[53:02] Annually.

[53:02] I think we've been annually contracting with them since 2015, maybe.

[53:09] Did it happen last year?

[53:11] It did not happen.

[53:11] Yeah, I didn't think so.

[53:13] No, we have an annual contract with them for a certain number of days, which is that there's

[53:17] a day rate per crew that they have, and that there have been some years where they just don't

[53:25] have enough crews so we don't get them.

[53:27] We still have a contract, but obviously they don't work, we don't pay.

[53:32] I'm glad to hear that because this is the time of year to do buckthorn control.

[53:36] And also, I was going to ask you as part of your parks report, what if any updates you

[53:41] have about any types of restoration projects or invasive removal, that type of thing?

[53:47] We've talked about that before at Casco and other parks.

[53:50] Again, our focus right now is buckthorn in the fall.

[53:54] this is the best time to remove it, to prevent spread, but we're also spread than ourselves

[54:01] during the fall, so right now we're just mainly contracting that work out.

[54:07] Is there any talk of neighbourhoods, there's been talk like that in the past of doing those sorts of initiatives.

[54:13] There was talk in the past of casco, that park there, doing that type of initiative, or is that not something that's going on right now.

[54:20] We haven't had much interaction or communication on that.

[54:24] We've had a few individuals reach out and ask if they could remove certain species,

[54:30] but it hasn't been a neighborhood scale.

[54:35] Is that something that any of the commissioners ever talk about related to the parks that they ever see?

[54:39] So in our park commission right now, what we're trying to do is put a more of a focus on our adopt a park program.

[54:47] And I think we'll see some parks where it will be a family that adopts that park and

[54:53] And it maybe requires a little more oversight from staff and park commission.

[54:57] But we are also trying to push initiatives where maybe a community adopts that park and they can invest in that more.

[55:04] Do some projects with staff where maybe it's removal or plantings, upkeep.

[55:09] So again, maybe with our sponsorship program, we're also looking at more formalized process for our adopted park.

[55:16] Thanks for that, I appreciate hearing that because I think with all the planning and infrastructure that we have coming down the pipeline, these sorts of things are very.

[55:23] very important and critical for reducing the spread of those invasives in the cities.

[55:29] Thanks.

[55:31] All right, thanks, James.

[55:33] All right, that's going to bring us to our fire report.

[55:36] We'll start with number nine, which is authorization to hire part-time firefighters chief out of hell.

[55:44] Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Council.

[55:46] So what we have before you is the purpose of this action is to get approval to hire part-time

[55:52] Firefighters for a weekday daytime duty cruise.

[55:56] The Ornal Fire Department is currently seeking part-time firefighters for our weekday daytime duty cruise for our station to call area.

[56:03] The selection process has been myself, some city employees, Josh and Anna and DJF helped out with some of the initial interviews.

[56:11] They've gone through psychological exams, pre-employment medical, probationary period, and such and all of the applicants have passed.

[56:20] Shea's experience with a firefighter with another couple of cities.

[56:24] He's passed Firefighter 1 and Firefighter 2.

[56:26] Nate and Kayla are just starting their Firefighter careers with us.

[56:31] Nate is currently enrolled in Firefighting classes at Century College.

[56:34] Kayla is enrolled in the EMT class and will move forward after the first of the year when she's done with her EMT for a firefighting class.

[56:42] All are excited to become charter members of the Arnold Fire Department and

[56:46] And we look forward to creating the best fire department in the relief association that

[56:50] we have.

[56:50] So, I do recommend Shay, Nate, and Kayla to receive conditional job offers as part time

[56:57] firefighters with effective start dates of tomorrow with limited administrative duties

[57:01] and time through the year.

[57:04] And then we'll start firefighter training and the other such duties after January 1, 2024.

[57:13] Any questions for James?

[57:14] I do have some. First of all, actually, this one's a legal question first for Silverin or for attorney.

[57:22] I do want to have it stated for the record that hiring any part-time firefighters for

[57:29] the city at Mourno is not in violation of the injunction.

[57:33] Councillor Member Benson may or members of the council have asked all members who is representing

[57:39] the city to specifically address that very point.

[57:52] Councilmember Benson and Mayor and Councilmembers, no, absolutely not.

[57:56] The order is very specific as to recruiting.

[57:59] There's no prohibition on hiring and that was specifically discussed at the hearing.

[58:04] I actually ordered the transcript and that was a point the court made clear was deal with

[58:11] people who come to the city on their own volition.

[58:13] So there is a difference between recruiting and hiring and the court was very specific in

[58:19] the terminology.

[58:20] So, in my opinion, the city is well within the bounds of the law and the order to proceed

[58:27] with this action.

[58:32] I don't have any further questions and I just want that stated for the record.

[58:35] Thank you.

[58:35] I have further questions for Chief Van.

[58:37] I'll not for you.

[58:40] I'll sit down.

[58:41] I do.

[58:41] For Chief Van, I'll but not nothing more legal at this point.

[58:47] So are these individuals currently working with long-leaf fire?

[58:53] No, none of these three are currently working with the long and this is for part time, so it's for duty crew.

[59:01] This is for, yeah, part time firefighters for our week day, day time duty crews.

[59:05] Now, one of them could be a paid on-call firefighter.

[59:07] She's interested in being a full time firefighter somewhere, so getting her into police and fire parra will help her career.

[59:15] And what is the purpose for hiring these individuals now?

[59:19] The purpose is to start doing some light administrative type duties, whether we're outspecking

[59:25] trucks, bringing their expertise, like Shea's expertise, along to be able to do that, getting

[59:32] them trained.

[59:33] So Kayla is EMT class right now and she'll be in there until the end of the year and then

[59:39] we've got to get her into a fire fighter class.

[59:41] Nate is in a firefighter class right now and then has to start EMR EMT after

[59:47] January, so it's really to start getting the ball rolling with their training.

[59:51] Also come up here within the next probably 30 to 45 days we'll have to start

[59:55] sizing for turnout care uniforms and getting them

[1:00:00] I'm fit tested with masks. Turn out here it takes anywhere from three to six months to order and get in. So we need to start ordering that now for each individual firefighter that we have. And the pay, the starting pay is $20 an hour. Or the part-time daytime duty crew is starting at $20. Okay. And long legs currently paying its duty crew $12.5 an hour. I have no idea what long legs paying their duty crew. I believe that's what I read because we talked about the budget last meeting. You weren't here. Actually, no, I don't believe you were here for that.

[1:00:29] I will say something that comes to mind here is that Orno is planning on paying these part-time people $20 an hour to significantly more than Long Lake is paying theirs, and I don't know if the court would see that as any type of competition as it relates to a limited amount of resource.

[1:00:50] Yes.

[1:00:50] So also a key there is to note that this is a hiring action for part-time employees.

[1:00:55] Yes.

[1:00:56] Long Lake has no part-time employees or have any other.

[1:01:00] I thought, okay, I thought we were talking about duty crews here.

[1:01:02] Is this not duty crews?

[1:01:03] These are part-time employees who will be our duty crew.

[1:01:06] We have it.

[1:01:06] We have in the organization that the council adopted a month or two ago, our duty crews are made

[1:01:13] up of part-time employees.

[1:01:15] the city of the long lake is using a completely different duty crew model.

[1:01:19] It's an important distinction to make.

[1:01:22] So they are using a paid on-call firefighters and

[1:01:25] paying them a stipend to serve a certain amount of time in the fire stations.

[1:01:32] So it's a different, it's a different.

[1:01:33] I see, no, I see what you're saying, thanks for the clarification.

[1:01:38] So are these individuals, people that would be stationed starting July of next year,

[1:01:43] out of station that servicing that area two of the city of Orno.

[1:01:47] For a set number of hours, correct.

[1:01:56] So if a call came in in July of next year, two calls came in.

[1:02:03] One in the city of the side of call station one and call station two.

[1:02:08] These are not people who are going to be working paid on call.

[1:02:11] These are only people who are going to be working in a duty crew capacity.

[1:02:15] So they'd have an area that they were responsible for, they would not be responding to calls in station one and station two area.

[1:02:24] We only have asked to remove the call area for station two, the two CAD zones out.

[1:02:30] So we would only be paid to those unless it's a mutual aid call by another department.

[1:02:35] And then at that time, we would respond just like we would for any other, if it's long-lake, if it's a noun, if it's a cell share, if it's a permit.

[1:02:41] But anybody like that that would call for mutual aid,

[1:02:43] we would respond to those,

[1:02:45] and hope that they would in turn then respond to ours,

[1:02:48] which we've had those conversations.

[1:02:50] I

[1:02:55] have any other questions on this.

[1:02:56] Thank you.

[1:02:57] That's all right.

[1:02:59] All right, any other thoughts?

[1:03:01] Can we make a motion?

[1:03:03] No, happy to have them.

[1:03:05] I said happy to have these firefighters sign.

[1:03:09] Oh, a nice job, chief, get them.

[1:03:12] I'll make a motion to approve the conditional job offers

[1:03:22] thank you very much thanks for coming also thank you thank you as a part-time firefighter at the rate of $20 per hour with the start date of October 10th 2023.

[1:03:42] Three.

[1:03:43] Okay.

[1:03:44] A motion?

[1:03:44] No, second.

[1:03:45] I was taking it.

[1:03:47] I'd just like to state for the record why I don't support this.

[1:03:50] Before we have a vote, I don't support this hiring of the part-time firefighters for the

[1:03:54] City of Ornell because this venture is costing our residents significantly more than they would

[1:04:01] need to pay for fire contract service with the City of Long Lake.

[1:04:04] It's also exposing our city to a great degree of risk in that this department is untested

[1:04:09] and has not been evaluated by an independent, unbiased third party.

[1:04:13] So I just want to state that for the record.

[1:04:15] What did you want tested by unbiased third party?

[1:04:17] The formation of an Ornal Fire Department.

[1:04:19] I said this model, this project has not had eyes laid on it by an unbiased third party

[1:04:29] outside evaluation or agent.

[1:04:31] I guess I say that the reason that we are doing this and that we are supportive of the fire department that we have

[1:04:37] decided to form as a city council and our city needs to be staffed. I think we're finding

[1:04:41] great staff people. We have our party expert right here as well as we have our engineer

[1:04:47] expert when we have engineering issues. We have legal expert when we have legal issues.

[1:04:51] We have equal to third parties for those. So we have our expert.

[1:04:56] I understand that. It's my opinion that when cities such as Hopkins, if I interrupted you

[1:05:03] That's correct. If I interrupted you, right?

[1:05:04] That's correct. If I interrupted you, I apologize.

[1:05:07] And so, I do, we have decided to have a fire department.

[1:05:12] It's our obligation to fund it, it's our obligation to staff it.

[1:05:17] We would be spending the same amount of money with long lake,

[1:05:21] except we'd be giving them all the money, and we'd be giving them all of the vehicles and everything else.

[1:05:28] We have decided to bring that in-house, and it's our obligation to fund the things

[1:05:32] is that we have voted to move forward death as a council in a city of Orno.

[1:05:39] Just as the city of Long Lake proceeded to go to Wise Ed of Fire, I don't believe

[1:05:45] they got an outside study done before they decided to do what they felt was the best

[1:05:51] thing for their city.

[1:05:52] Is that a police community?

[1:05:54] Yeah, why is that a police, I'm sorry.

[1:05:56] So, you know, it's the same thing that Orno was doing is we felt it's the best

[1:06:01] thing that we can do for our citizens because we are 87% of the budget to bring

[1:06:08] that in house and take care of that.

[1:06:11] So, that's why we're going ahead.

[1:06:12] And you need to, you know, we've made the decision that we're going ahead with

[1:06:18] Orno Fire, you need to staff it and you need to equip it.

[1:06:21] And if you're not doing that, you're not serving the people of Orno.

[1:06:25] You're serving in your mind or somebody else's mind, the people along the lake,

[1:06:29] which doesn't help anybody.

[1:06:30] So just to that, are you finished, I don't want to interrupt.

[1:06:33] Go ahead, thank you.

[1:06:35] So just to that point, it is common practice when cities are looking at even making changes to a well-established apartment like Hopkins has.

[1:06:44] It is standard practice to understand that even though as elected officials, we know a lot, we don't know everything.

[1:06:51] And we have our own biases, we have our own blind spots, and to not take advantage of especially in an undertaking that is new.

[1:06:59] that is unproven. That has not been done before. It's a significant risk. I don't believe we know our ISO rating. That is still a question.

[1:07:09] This is a significant undertaking. And to say in this undertaking that we as a city, that we as council members who are not experts in fire, or that our staff, even though we have a chief,

[1:07:23] That doesn't require an outside look, that we can hire somebody who then gives justification for

[1:07:29] a department that that individual has been hired to oversee, that is not best practice.

[1:07:35] So that is what I want to say for the record, and that's all.

[1:07:38] Well, as a retired, as a retired ten-year firefighter, I definitely did have some expertise and

[1:07:46] That's one thing, and we've hired a chief who's outstanding, who knows his business really, really well.

[1:07:54] But we're here to do the best thing for the citizens of Orano.

[1:07:58] That's what we're elected to do, and we're responsible for those dollars.

[1:08:04] And when we decided to go ahead with the fire department to take care of it and run it, we need to equip it.

[1:08:09] And we need to get the proper personnel in there.

[1:08:12] That's our job.

[1:08:13] No, voting no on that does not help that position, and it does not support the citizens of Orno, which is what we were elected to do.

[1:08:21] Well, I would also argue that the citizens of Orno have been speaking out at nearly every meeting in opposition to this undertaking.

[1:08:28] So, and I would also argue that if we are going to take into consideration the needs and desires of our residents related to recreational sports that we discussed earlier tonight, we might well do the same as it relates to public safety.

[1:08:42] Okay, so we've had a motion and a second on favor say aye.

[1:08:46] I propose no that passes 4 to 1.

[1:08:50] Okay, we'll move on to number 10, which is authorization to hire paid-on-call firefighters.

[1:08:56] Chief.

[1:08:57] Thanks, Mr. Mayor and Council.

[1:08:59] The purpose of this action is to give approval to hire some paid-on-call firefighters for

[1:09:02] response down to station 2.

[1:09:05] The Toronto Fire Department is currently speaking, paid on co-fire fighters cover that's station two call area.

[1:09:11] The recommended candidates are Jeff Crawl, Ryan, and Ivy JV SEALs, Justin Hinker, Mike Johnson, Ben Carlson, Tom Aldrich.

[1:09:20] Olive experience as a firefighter with another department, all of past firefighter one and two, and I are either an EMT or EMR medically certified.

[1:09:29] All are excited to become charter members of the Toronto Fire Department and look forward to creating the best fire department

[1:09:34] around in the real associations. I would recommend Jeff Crawled with 19 years, Ryan

[1:09:41] Canivie with 13 years, JB Seals with 5, Justin Hinker with 2, Mike Johnson with 2, Ben

[1:09:46] Carlson with 2, and Tom Aldridge with 34 years of experience, conditional job offers is paid

[1:09:52] on call, firefighters, for the City of Ornall, effective start date would be October 10th,

[1:09:58] for limited administrative time and duties, and then firefighter training and other such

[1:10:02] students would begin January 1st?

[1:10:06] Wonderful.

[1:10:07] With a starting pay of $16 an effort.

[1:10:10] Right, yep.

[1:10:11] On the bill.

[1:10:11] They don't call side at $16 an office.

[1:10:15] Any other questions?

[1:10:16] I have another question.

[1:10:17] I just like our attorney to address this one as well.

[1:10:20] As it relates to the injunction.

[1:10:25] I would reiterate what I indicated before that the order is very specific.

[1:10:30] And there's no prohibition on hiring.

[1:10:32] And I see no reason not to proceed with taking action.

[1:10:36] Thank you.

[1:10:41] So this is for the paid on call and are all these individuals currently servicing the

[1:10:47] city of Long Lake through Long Lake Fire.

[1:10:49] The last time I've spoke with them, yes, they were still on the department.

[1:10:53] Can you spoke with them at a recruiting event?

[1:10:56] Multiple recruiting events, lunches, text messages for happy birthdays and happy anniversaries,

[1:11:03] those types of things, yeah.

[1:11:04] And our proposed pay is $16 an hour?

[1:11:07] For a paid on call, firefighters, yes, the proposed pay is $16 an hour.

[1:11:11] Okay, and I believe looking at Long Lake's budget, they're proposing, or we are still in debate about $15.60 cents or so.

[1:11:20] For Long Lake firefighters, so we're paying more in the city of Orno for paid on call.

[1:11:24] $15.65.

[1:11:26] $15.65, thank you, so we are paying, we are proposing to pay Orno recruits more.

[1:11:34] more than the City of Long Lake.

[1:11:43] I did do a right, how was that a number arrived at, $16 an hour?

[1:11:47] A similar, it was a wage study that was done a while ago.

[1:11:50] For surrounding fire departments, up and down the western suburban side here.

[1:11:55] And I took that pay and kind of averaged it out and said we don't necessarily want to be the highest for paid alcohol,

[1:12:01] but we don't want to be the lowest, we want to be somewhere in between.

[1:12:04] $16 is kind of what I came with as a budgetary loan.

[1:12:09] Do you think that's going to have any impact on long lake as it relates to their operations?

[1:12:15] I couldn't answer that question, I'm sorry.

[1:12:17] Okay, so this is where I would like to address the question I had earlier regarding

[1:12:23] Pied on Call, Firefighters, who may be employed with the City of Orno or be paid on call.

[1:12:30] I should say with the City of Orno, as well as those who are currently,

[1:12:32] it sounds like these individuals currently serve long lake fire.

[1:12:35] So in July of next year, how would that work if there are calls, let's say multiple calls at one time that would require paid on call?

[1:12:45] How do these individuals know which city there is funding to?

[1:12:49] I guess that would be up to them on which city they would want to respond to on a paid on call perspective.

[1:12:54] Whichever page goes off, typically the first one would probably, that's where they would respond.

[1:13:00] And then we'd have, you know, if there's a back-to-back call, then we'd have to take a look at what other options there are.

[1:13:07] Do you, and you don't think having a pay difference is going to affect that decision in any way?

[1:13:14] I could answer for my firefighters as to what it is. Most of them say they don't do it for the pay.

[1:13:19] They do it to serve the communities.

[1:13:24] I don't have anything else, thanks.

[1:13:25] I just want to point out that chief Mike we brought up serving multiple departments and then I think he said currently there are

[1:13:34] handful. I want to say four or five that serve on another department.

[1:13:38] Yeah, I know of a couple on long legs and still serve on a couple of days.

[1:13:41] It's not on those for those communities where they're serving on multiple departments located this close to each other.

[1:13:47] Yes.

[1:13:48] What so would it be?

[1:13:48] It's just a fire or a long leg fire so they butt right up against each other.

[1:13:53] Okay, thank you.

[1:13:57] Anybody want to make a motion?

[1:13:59] I'll make a motion.

[1:14:01] I'll make a motion to approve the conditional job offers of Jeff Crawl, Ryan Canayvy,

[1:14:07] J.B. Seals, Jason Hinker, Mike John's Root, Ben Carlson, and Tom Aldrich as paid on call firefighters at the rate of $16 an hour with the start date of October 10th, 2023.

[1:14:22] And I'll just say that for the record again that I have the same concerns about this agenda item that I did about the previous one, this department is untusted and we're increasing risk to the city and to our residents.

[1:14:35] I'm sorry to take a moment to say I'm sorry that we use that time to not acknowledge our charter members and just wanted to say thank you personally for coming and thank you to the charter members for being part of something special.

[1:14:50] Okay motion a second all in favor say aye. I opposed no that passes 4 to 1 get that right I didn't have

[1:14:57] Yep, this is a big this is a big day

[1:15:00] And we have one more to go. Congratulations. We have one more to go. We've single one individual out. Number 18, which is another authorization to hire paid on call. Yes. No discussion.

[1:15:14] So the purpose of this action is to gain approval to hire a paid on call firefighter for response at station two.

[1:15:19] selection process has been the same as the previous.

[1:15:23] Ben Beach has experienced a firefighter with another department.

[1:15:25] He's passed firefighter 1 and 2 and is currently EMR with conversations of becoming an EMT for us.

[1:15:32] He's excited to become a charter member of the Orno Fire Department and looks forward to creating the best Fire Department and Relief Association.

[1:15:38] I do recommend Ben Beach with six years of serving Orno for conditional job offers.

[1:15:42] A paid uncle firefighter with effective start date of October 10, 2023.

[1:15:47] For limited administrative duties, firefighter training, and other such duties will begin on or after January 1st, 2024.

[1:15:55] Any other questions?

[1:15:58] No, I just stay for the record that I understand.

[1:16:01] I don't know that any Councilmember Beach needs to recuse herself from this vote.

[1:16:06] Chief, she is recuse yourself.

[1:16:08] Yeah, Mr. Mayor, Council, I have talked to Councilmember Beach about this.

[1:16:12] I do feel she has an inflictive interest that asks her not to vote on this or participate in this.

[1:16:17] discussion on this particular item.

[1:16:19] You see for the record what the conflict is, please.

[1:16:22] It's your husband.

[1:16:23] And there's an appointment.

[1:16:24] There's an appointment.

[1:16:25] Okay, thank you.

[1:16:27] Any other questions?

[1:16:29] No, I would just say, again, this is an area where I've expressed concern before.

[1:16:34] And it's an unfortunate situation when the optics of fire in our city and the optics of an appointment

[1:16:40] or a hire like this are, in my opinion, not ideal for a city that's engaged in a law

[1:16:46] to and having this much discord around this issue of fire service in our city.

[1:16:53] Okay, like a motion.

[1:16:55] Yeah, I'm excited to make this motion to approve the conditional job offer to bend each.

[1:17:02] As a paid-on-qual firefighter at the rate of $16 an hour with a start date of October 10th, 2023.

[1:17:08] Congratulations, Ben.

[1:17:11] I'll second that.

[1:17:12] All right, well in favor say aye.

[1:17:14] Aye.

[1:17:15] Opposed?

[1:17:15] No.

[1:17:16] That passes three to one.

[1:17:19] Okay.

[1:17:19] That'll bring us to 19.

[1:17:21] Thank you, Ben.

[1:17:22] Absolutely.

[1:17:23] That's going to bring us to number 19, which is authorization to direct staff to begin process

[1:17:27] further creating the Ornall Fire Relief Association.

[1:17:31] I do want to say one thing before we move on to this one, that reason that all of them aren't

[1:17:35] here tonight is I didn't ask them to be here tonight.

[1:17:38] I do want them to come back once we have them in uniform and do a nice sweat in ceremony

[1:17:42] probably be January to February timeframe, to be able to do that and do what we're doing.

[1:17:47] We would enjoy that as well.

[1:17:49] Yeah, it would be awesome.

[1:17:51] Yeah, Shane helped us out a little bit today so he was able to swing by his state so I was

[1:17:55] kind of happy.

[1:17:57] All right.

[1:18:01] Sure.

[1:18:04] Oh, I do not view this as there being a conflict of interest.

[1:18:07] This is a procedural item to create a process for the entire city.

[1:18:13] That's right.

[1:18:16] So thanks Mr. Mayor and Council.

[1:18:17] So the purpose of this action item before us is to authorize staff to convene the paid

[1:18:21] on-call firefighters together, the purpose of creating a relief association, Council approved

[1:18:26] the creation of a municipal fire department, the hiring of paid on-call firefighters allows

[1:18:30] for the formation of the first relief association, or the fire relief association for the purpose

[1:18:35] of overseeing the pensions of the paid on-call firefighters, the hiring of paid on-call

[1:18:40] firefighters allows the opportunity to select a relief association board, and to begin the

[1:18:44] process of creating a fire relief association.

[1:18:47] Relief board is made up of six paid on-call firefighters and three

[1:18:50] exhibition members.

[1:18:51] Those three official members typically are the fire chief, the city administrator and the mayor.

[1:18:56] The board along with the paid on-call firefighters are able to determine their type of pension benefit.

[1:19:01] That they so choose, they will then have to file bylaws with the state of Minnesota auditor's office.

[1:19:07] Complete an investment policy with them also.

[1:19:10] Besides that, the relief board will have to file articles of incorporation.

[1:19:14] for a non-profit with the Secretary of State.

[1:19:19] The relief board should be able to be selected by December 1st, the bylaws and articles and

[1:19:24] the corporation, hopefully filed.

[1:19:26] We're looking at a March 1st timeline to do that to be done.

[1:19:30] Once those are drafted, obviously we've got to go through a legal review and we'll bring

[1:19:33] them back to the City Council for approval also.

[1:19:36] Staff recommends that the Council authorize staff to begin the creation of a relief fire

[1:19:45] Any other questions for the chief on that?

[1:19:49] All right.

[1:19:50] Seeing none, I'm going to make a motion.

[1:19:51] Yeah, I'll make a motion to direct staff to begin the process to create a fire relief association.

[1:19:59] I'll second that.

[1:20:00] Second.

[1:20:01] I don't support this for reasons I stated earlier.

[1:20:05] No, did.

[1:20:06] I want a favor say aye.

[1:20:07] Aye.

[1:20:08] Opposed?

[1:20:08] No.

[1:20:09] That passes 4-1.

[1:20:10] Okay, if that'll any other things for fire reports and HG?

[1:20:19] Well, yeah, chief, it means really important, it's really good to get to everything going here.

[1:20:25] And this relief is a really important piece of this.

[1:20:28] And what I like a lot about this is we're getting these firefighters on.

[1:20:34] And you get to be part of the formation of our new department, it's really important.

[1:20:40] There's been a lot of talk about bringing in experts in all these pieces.

[1:20:43] But what this allows us to do is get the direct impact of the firefighters at this effects and we have an opportunity here as a city to get this started off in the right way and with a lot of firefighter input that is our inaugural group coming in.

[1:20:59] So this is a really important step. I'm excited about it and nice job getting this started.

[1:21:07] Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. We also just finished up a couple of years last Thursday, so we're going to be looking at them.

[1:21:13] One is for the Firefighter Tech Admin position, which is open until the end of the month here, and then we have two more interviews coming up this coming Thursday, therefore part-time duty crew members.

[1:21:24] So we've got a lot of momentum moving, and I do want to thank the council for their support. Thank you.

[1:21:31] All right. Thank you.

[1:21:33] That will bring us to our city attorney report.

[1:21:36] Mr. Mayor, members of the council, I don't have any report for right now.

[1:21:39] We will have a close session later on in the agenda.

[1:21:43] That will bring us to Adam, our city administrator, and your report.

[1:21:46] On the engineering side, we're getting to the fall, so we're wrapping up most of our major

[1:21:51] construction projects.

[1:21:52] Most recently, the Tonkwell Parton was placed into operation.

[1:21:58] That project still has a bunch of restoration to do along the site, but that was for last

[1:22:04] major moving piece was getting the park would remain into operation.

[1:22:09] Over at our public new public work facility, you see a lot of concrete going in.

[1:22:14] So curving for the parking lot area went in last week as well as we finally had ore inside

[1:22:21] the building.

[1:22:22] We had concrete flooring inside the office area with the other areas soon to get their flooring

[1:22:28] So the idea there is to get the building buttoned up for the winter with all that the interior trades will continue to work throughout the winter so that we are still on track for an April project completion on that one.

[1:22:44] And that's all I have.

[1:22:47] That will bring us to our council committee reports, number 20, we had our long-lake fire

[1:22:52] advisory board.

[1:22:55] Are you and Richard?

[1:23:00] I guess I missed the last council meeting I apologize, I had a funeral that evening

[1:23:06] for young men in the area.

[1:23:10] On the last fire advisory board meeting I thought we were in a positive, we had some positive

[1:23:16] momentum.

[1:23:17] some regarding pay, the budget, going in the proper direction of departments working together, possibly in the future.

[1:23:28] A lot of that, I think, has been dashed with lack of communication, lack of long lake, fulfilling its obligation, showing us rationals regarding their duty crew models and so forth.

[1:23:45] The Orano Fire Department is going to happen, it is happening.

[1:23:50] So we're proceeding to move ahead.

[1:23:53] We had discussions on pay and that's exactly why I wanted to move their pay higher than what they were recommending back at the time.

[1:24:02] So I recommend it 1565.

[1:24:06] Some of my big concerns is as the City of Long Lake's biggest client, we can't get the chief out here to have a meeting or to have a discussion with us.

[1:24:18] And we've asked them it's not going to be an interrogation, but to give updates, kind of see where things are rat for them.

[1:24:26] And to have the chief not respond is not real positive.

[1:24:30] So that's not the future of a working relationship, and I have concerns that unfortunately people are putting egos ahead of the job, and that's a problem.

[1:24:46] It's important to take care of and do the job that you're there for, and I would have liked to see some positive steps forward from the chief and

[1:24:58] folks at long-lake to do that and because to gain a working relationship, because the chief has been doing this for a long time, I know him very well, and it's important that chiefs and fire personnel work well with their neighboring cities, and it's a little part of mutual aid and so forth, and if there's not a discussion to bring things together now, and try to bridge that gap, even if long-lake decides to go out and they're going to go out on their own, which

[1:25:28] which is fine, they have that opportunity, it's not a lot of room for growth.

[1:25:35] So those are my biggest concerns.

[1:25:39] I have, did you want to share more about?

[1:25:42] Sure, I shared at our last meeting a recap of what I thought was a pretty successful meeting and

[1:25:49] good conversation and again, I went actually to their long legs meeting to talk in person because I thought

[1:25:58] But our in-person conversations have been quite fruitful.

[1:26:02] I think there's been compromise and understanding that can't be done by packets and emails.

[1:26:09] And I've reached out saying that I think that that's the best way to move forward is to continue that.

[1:26:14] And I think we have a request out to have another meeting and I think we're, I'm hopeful that that will happen.

[1:26:22] I'm thinking back to the meeting where you weren't able to be here, we discussed the long-lake fire budget at the last meeting.

[1:26:34] It's something that I've been trying to understand why it is that we would have had that agenda item on there when you weren't able to be here, given that you two are the representatives and have done, as I said in the meeting, a great degree of work over three, I think at least three-fired advisory boardings to hone a budget that was able to be presented to us.

[1:26:53] that night that was recommended by staff.

[1:26:55] And I do know that the condition about lowering that cost of duty crews,

[1:27:00] which you've mentioned, was very concerning to you from around 80 or

[1:27:05] so thousand to underneath 60, which it was.

[1:27:08] And my understanding was with the fruitful discussions, and with that number of vettings of that budget,

[1:27:16] I met a loss as to why we weren't in agreement or

[1:27:19] still couldn't be about getting that pass.

[1:27:22] we've tabled at the last meeting, but I'm not understanding the purpose for another go around

[1:27:28] at a fire advisory meeting when we've had two representatives who've done all the hard work and

[1:27:33] have had fruitful discussions and we had a staff recommendation to prove that night.

[1:27:38] And I can speak to that.

[1:27:40] I'd like to hear Councilmember Crosby as well because you're, you're both heading in.

[1:27:45] So for me, me not being here was a very late last-minute decision that I had to make.

[1:27:53] You know, he had no choice.

[1:27:56] So it was a personal decision that I had to make.

[1:27:59] I wanted to be around to support my daughter during a very difficult time.

[1:28:05] But I also thought that the ball was moving forward as far as progression and people working together and things of that nature.

[1:28:13] And that's not happening.

[1:28:16] It hasn't happened as far as discussions of having the chief possibly fill one of the

[1:28:23] duty crew roles at station two, which would alleviate a lot from the budget.

[1:28:30] You know, those things were not moving forward even though there was discussion on it.

[1:28:37] So that's concerning.

[1:28:38] And again, I have the utmost respect for Chief Island.

[1:28:43] I've worked with him. He's a great man. But I think it's important that he gets here

[1:28:48] and addresses the counsel and addresses any questions the counsel may have. That's

[1:28:52] not unreasonable. James would come to the counsel on a periodic basis and address the

[1:28:58] counsel and give us updates and so forth, too, when he was the long-lake fire chief.

[1:29:03] Those aren't unreasonable requests. And if it takes having another fire advisory board

[1:29:08] If they're meeting if they're not willing to do it, that's a problem.

[1:29:12] You know, I don't think it's bad to hire some of these things out.

[1:29:18] Because as our representatives, you've been going to at least, I think it was three meetings to discuss the budget.

[1:29:24] They were fruitful, and what I'm trying to understand is, is there a condition attached to this budget related to the chief fan aisle

[1:29:34] working somehow to fill in hours of training or to save budgetary expenses on the

[1:29:40] part of Orno, is that part of, is that what is holding it?

[1:29:44] I think you would have to see a working relationship, yeah.

[1:29:47] At least, at least for me, it would help to show there's a bridge there that you're

[1:29:53] willing to work together, which is necessary because I think it was you that pointed

[1:29:58] it out.

[1:29:58] It's necessary that need

[1:30:01] Well, if we're not doing it now, it's going to be very difficult down the road. And I agree with you, it is important. The neighboring

[1:30:09] cities work together. Right. What I'm trying to prove. So that's part of one of the things that we were talking about by having

[1:30:16] James fill that role. And he knows almost all, if not every single piece of personnel over there, so that helps

[1:30:25] What I'm trying to understand is whether or not our chief chief and Isles participation in overdoing whatever it is administrative training duties in order to reduce budget on the part of order of 2024, is that a condition of approving this budget is what I'm trying to understand.

[1:30:43] Let me speak to it just for a quick second.

[1:30:46] I mean, Marie can speak to this more, too.

[1:30:48] When they're having these conversations, they report back as well that the chief Highland

[1:30:53] over at Long Lake said he would think about these items.

[1:30:56] Well, thinking about them and giving us a response for two different things we've not had

[1:30:59] any responses.

[1:31:00] So until we actually get responses, we're not under any obligation to do anything.

[1:31:05] We need to get some answers, and I think it's reasonable to get those answers.

[1:31:08] And then on top of it, the budget also had no recollection, which I think we just got

[1:31:14] the numbers now for the Nabar part that has the whole territory of the value.

[1:31:18] We have to have the correct budget for the year.

[1:31:20] We're just not going to do a budget for an entire year and say we'll figure out the part

[1:31:25] that we need to subtract later.

[1:31:26] Now, we need to have the right budget, and they did not have the right budget yet, so that's

[1:31:30] also part of it.

[1:31:31] So was that part of the discussions between Council Member Crosby and Veech during these

[1:31:35] that you needed to have an agreement prior to approving the 2024 budget that's the area two was going to be somehow carved out.

[1:31:45] That was an agreement of that.

[1:31:46] No, it was not.

[1:31:48] From my personal perspective, it was us moving ahead in a working type of relationship.

[1:31:54] And the response that we've seen, I'm not seeing it.

[1:31:58] So I don't think it's bad to engage again in conversation.

[1:32:03] I know I'm personally willing to go to another fire advisory board meeting and have more discussions.

[1:32:09] What exactly, it would help me to quantify exactly what it is that the city of Orna is looking for in this budget.

[1:32:17] The dollar amount that needs to be decreased, or is it?

[1:32:19] The chief needs to give us some answers, he says.

[1:32:21] No, when I said quantify, the word is quantify, that means what is it?

[1:32:26] I'd like to see the chief that we're paying most of his salary actually show up at an

[1:32:32] Orano City Hall meeting.

[1:32:33] So we can approve the budget if Chef Island comes before the-

[1:32:36] Well, it's going to be part of it, yeah, that'll be part of it.

[1:32:40] And then the other things they'll break down is dollars wise if James was there, what would that reduce the budget by?

[1:32:50] If James as a piece of personnel was there, what can that help us with?

[1:32:54] And Ron can come up with a figure with Adam and say, this is approximately how much this would save us.

[1:33:00] So we are in act-

[1:33:01] For those things should be analyzed.

[1:33:03] We are in active litigation, and I would also point out that if there are specific questions that the City Council

[1:33:13] feels that Chief Highland or the City of Long Lake Fire needs to have answered, it would be helpful to have those expressly

[1:33:20] We determined a head of calling Chief Highland in front of Ornus City Council.

[1:33:26] I'm interested to know what specifically we're looking for.

[1:33:29] I don't mean to cut you out, but that would be the purpose of another meeting is to establish that on the record.

[1:33:35] So we don't know at this point what it is we as a council need to understand better from Chief Highland.

[1:33:41] I think we all do.

[1:33:43] Yeah, no, we've said, so you say quantify, I say quantify.

[1:33:46] Right, what are the questions?

[1:33:47] Qualifying.

[1:33:48] So it's a so the duty crew program itself is a hundred percent just a test it's a beta you get possibly better results

[1:33:56] But it is not changing the operating style that they're doing right now. They are still all paid on call every call is paid

[1:34:02] Shout it changes nothing. It is just a

[1:34:05] A beta test, right? So for us to pay a beta test and not have any quantifiable

[1:34:12] Numbers so we've gotten some reporting from and we were trying to approve a budget with

[1:34:18] one month of results at first, right?

[1:34:20] Well, now we have a quarter worth of duty group,

[1:34:23] and I think we could get much more data to support

[1:34:26] what is the best budget we'll be in forward.

[1:34:28] When you ask are there conditional spends,

[1:34:31] conditional terms, no, but those are all for me, there isn't.

[1:34:34] I wouldn't say I would only do this if this happens.

[1:34:37] I will never say I will vote this way,

[1:34:39] because I think that handcuffs you to not being open

[1:34:43] to listening in my opinion, coming to a meeting,

[1:34:45] being coming to something with a preset idea, well then what's the point?

[1:34:50] You already made your decision.

[1:34:52] So for me, I thought that every meeting I've gone to has been productive.

[1:34:57] I encourage, I went there in person to shake their hands to say, here's where I'm thinking,

[1:35:03] and here's why I think in person meetings was told, hey, by the agreement, we only have to have so many.

[1:35:10] I go, I get that, but if it is beneficial.

[1:35:12] And when you say it can reduce Orno's budget, it would also reduce long-lakes budget, right?

[1:35:17] Because it's a budget we share.

[1:35:19] So it is something that I think it's a win-win when having good conversation builds relationship or rebuilds.

[1:35:27] I think it brings out instead of just addressing issues as they come up, it brings out holistic approach to solution problem-solving.

[1:35:37] I mean, and I don't think, I mean, I think that's where a conversation is, so I think that's the question.

[1:35:43] I could not agree more that in person negotiation or however, it is a very important thing.

[1:35:49] What I'm trying to wrap my head around is that we had, and again, you had a need to be somewhere which is as it is in life at times.

[1:35:58] But we had a budget before us recommended by staff that we weren't in a place to approve after three fired vice report meetings.

[1:36:04] So what I'm trying to understand is what needs to be different in order to get this budget approved.

[1:36:09] And as far as untested models and beta sites go, the Orno Fire Department is being set up with no testing at all.

[1:36:19] So regarding the idea that we don't want to fund duty crews, or having trouble with the financials for

[1:36:26] duty crews because it is a beta or a test model with long lake, therefore we don't have enough data.

[1:36:32] We have no data on the Orner Fire Department, and we're willing to put a millions of dollars to it.

[1:36:38] So that's all I have to say, I think what my suggestion is-

[1:36:41] It's also a brand new department, not one that's been around a long time.

[1:36:45] That's not an apple's name.

[1:36:48] It's not an apple's name.

[1:36:49] I am having a conversation because this is about our residents and it was about public safety.

[1:36:54] So our model is untested.

[1:36:57] It involves a high degree of risk and millions of dollars.

[1:37:01] And we are not having this type of debate regarding capital expenditures or operational costs for the Hornet Fire Department.

[1:37:08] We are having it at a budget that is increased by about 20-22% over last year, which is fairly standard.

[1:37:15] And we've all agreed that it has been underfunded over time.

[1:37:18] So all I ask is that I will support, if it's another meeting, I think face to face is great.

[1:37:24] I think what my perspective is, is there needs to be a very, very tangible and

[1:37:28] a chief of all goal going into this rather than because we have built relationships we spent.

[1:37:35] Now we are two representatives, there's been a great deal of time doing this already.

[1:37:41] So what's going to be different with another meeting is the question.

[1:37:44] Well, first of all, maybe the chief will show up to the meeting because two out of the three meetings, the chief didn't.

[1:37:48] And as it relates to that, I want to, when you're finished, I want to address something about that.

[1:37:53] Okay, it matters a great deal in the fire community.

[1:37:59] And in basic decency in general, that we as a council not talk about other municipalities,

[1:38:10] staff, elected officials in terms that are disparaging.

[1:38:15] And what I know, having met with a number of people in fire, not in Orno and Long Lake,

[1:38:20] but in surrounding communities is that all cities are watching exactly what we do at all times,

[1:38:26] especially as it relates to fire.

[1:38:27] So we can't, in one breath, say that Chief Hyland is welcome here and we want to

[1:38:33] interrogate and then make comments that he had with us.

[1:38:38] No, no, no, no.

[1:38:39] Well, no, no, no.

[1:38:40] I wasn't saying that.

[1:38:41] I specifically said how much I respected Mike Hyland.

[1:38:48] So when you get on the soapbox and start telling our city how we should conduct

[1:38:54] ourselves with other elected officials, it's laughable.

[1:38:59] I keep my mouth shut when it comes to other city officials.

[1:39:03] I don't get the same respect coming back.

[1:39:06] And I specifically said, here tonight, and it's great because we've got several

[1:39:10] attorneys present how much I respected and liked Mike Highland and worked with him.

[1:39:16] He's not going to be interrogated here.

[1:39:19] It's a simple question and answer.

[1:39:22] That's it.

[1:39:23] He's been invited several times.

[1:39:25] Chief Ann Isle showed up to meetings when he was the chief of Long Lake Fire.

[1:39:30] That's not an unreasonable request.

[1:39:33] It's not.

[1:39:37] And I just think it's amazing that you can so quickly vote for any Long Lake budget

[1:39:44] whatsoever, but when it comes to an Orno budget or supplying the Orno Fire Department

[1:39:50] with a personnel, any equipment it needs, it's a no, no, no.

[1:39:54] Well, guess what, I look at this wall, that says Orno, it does not say Long Lake.

[1:40:01] We are here to represent Orno, and for somebody who served the Fire Department for

[1:40:06] 10 years to say that I don't care about these people, is an insult.

[1:40:12] I don't know that I said that, Councilmember Crosby.

[1:40:15] But you didn't care about that.

[1:40:16] I'm saying, think about representing the City of Orno and instead of representing

[1:40:22] the City of Long Lake.

[1:40:23] point of order.

[1:40:24] Because that is our job.

[1:40:26] That's what we were sworn to do.

[1:40:27] Point of order.

[1:40:28] Okay, so I think we can move this along, but, you know, in summary here, the point of this particular item was a report from the advisory board, and we established at the last meeting, I have no idea why you have such a great sense of urgency to get this budget passed.

[1:40:51] We establish there is time, we have time to pass this budget and only make sense to continue our conversations with Long Lake, make sure that we are optimizing all of the efficiencies that we can have because we're not doing that right now, let's understand it, let's benefit, this relationship is ended, the contract is ending.

[1:41:18] We want to find a way to work together in the future, because it isn't together, we've established that.

[1:41:24] We're starting our own department, but they're still our neighbor, we want to work with them.

[1:41:28] Let's keep, thank you for both of you, for continuing to work towards some amicable solutions.

[1:41:35] I think we should keep talking.

[1:41:37] We haven't tell the end of the year to get the budget passed, there is no urgency.

[1:41:41] So let's keep communicating and get to an end to it.

[1:41:44] And I think with that, we can find the next item, can we?

[1:41:47] I would like to know what does not, what happens if this budget is not passed by the end of the year.

[1:41:53] What happened?

[1:41:55] Okay, last meeting, there's provisions inside of our contract, but we're not at that point.

[1:42:00] We have until the end of December to put it together, so let these two continue with their good progress on this subject, and we'll get closer to good answers, and we'll move on from there.

[1:42:13] I don't know more than willing to do another fire advisory board meeting.

[1:42:17] I'm not going to speak for you, Maria, but I've been here.

[1:42:19] Okay.

[1:42:21] I think discussion is going to be important.

[1:42:23] I support all of that and there's not the sense of urgency is simply trained to understand

[1:42:28] what it is we're missing here, because we could have meeting after meeting and it's,

[1:42:33] and it's important to understand if you're having a meeting what the purpose is.

[1:42:38] because I think there have been my understanding, multiple meetings, and the information reporting out of those meetings was that it was productive, we were converging, and we had a motion or agenda item to approve with staff recommends last time, so the urgency wasn't set by me, it's that we've already decided to postpone something that was before us a few weeks ago, so I'm trying to understand a path forward, and I support another meeting as well, if that's what it takes.

[1:43:07] I'll make a motion and discussion.

[1:43:10] Okay, let's move on to public comments.

[1:43:13] This is an opportunity for the public to address the City Council.

[1:43:16] The Council will not engage in discussion to take action and items presented at this time.

[1:43:21] However, the Council may refer issues to staff or follow-up or consideration at a future meeting.

[1:43:26] Speakers should state their name and home address and city at the podium before speaking.

[1:43:30] The Council will first open up the podium to City of Ordinal Residence before opening the podium

[1:43:34] to any member of the public wishing to address the council.

[1:43:37] If three minutes, I will keep the timings on the screen so you can watch it as you're

[1:43:43] talking.

[1:43:44] So is any oral residents here tonight that like to come up and talk?

[1:43:56] Hi, I'm Kim Karswell at 261 Signet Place.

[1:43:59] As a resident of Orano, I will continue to comment on how the city is proceeding to build

[1:44:04] a new fire department up until the next election when we have people up for election.

[1:44:09] Ms. Vitch, Mr. Crosby and Mr. Walsh.

[1:44:11] So, our citizens continue to engage and understand what is happening.

[1:44:15] Tonight I will share four points.

[1:44:17] The Council has adamantly refused to truly listen to the residents of Orano.

[1:44:22] Open houses sound good on paper.

[1:44:24] However, they have been handled on a way to stifle comments and collect the collected data is not deemed valuable.

[1:44:31] The benefits of Orano building a fire department from the ground up have not been clearly articulated.

[1:44:36] Yes, we are the bigger city and yes, we pay a larger portion.

[1:44:39] of the cost with Lawn Lake. This is acceptable to many of us who value that.

[1:44:44] Response times that were cited by our fire chief without data were disputed by the Lawn Lake Fire Department with sound data.

[1:44:52] The cost seemed to be more, so what are the true benefits of the citizens of Orano?

[1:44:57] The mediation session yielded nothing as Orano did.

[1:45:00] It did not truly go into that process constructively as the mayor indicated he would, and an earlier council meeting when he was asked, asked, sorry. The financial picture of this endeavor is high level and obtuse in the public eye. How can a city the size of Orono with the current budget assumes such a cost without significant risk? And it's hard to understand those. Thank you very much.

[1:45:22] Any other one of residents that would like to come up tonight?

[1:45:34] I'm Helen Landgraver.

[1:45:36] I live at 2570 Thurobred Lane in O'Neill and I'm really glad I came to this meeting because I have to say this was the first meeting that I've come to where Council Member Crosby, I've actually agreed with something that you've uttered.

[1:45:53] Yes, you were elected to represent the citizens of O'Neill.

[1:45:57] Councilmember Johnson, you were elected to represent the citizens of Orano.

[1:46:07] Mayor Walsh, you were elected to represent the citizens of Orano.

[1:46:15] Councilmember Vich, you were seated, but your responsibility is to represent the citizens of Orano.

[1:46:28] Councilmember Benson, you were elected to represent the citizens of Arno and I thank you for your service.

[1:46:37] What is very clear after many meetings, after a vocal opposition continued vocal opposition

[1:46:49] to the formation of an independent fire department for Arno, that this council, the majority of the

[1:46:57] The members on this council have not made a compelling case for the reason that an independent fire department must exist.

[1:47:08] So with that, I ask I plead again and again and as have other community members for you to actually listen to what your citizenship is saying.

[1:47:23] One final note, Mayor Walsh, I appreciate that you seem to have an interest in people

[1:47:36] not talking over each other.

[1:47:39] I would really like to express my hope that you apply that same standard across the entire

[1:47:48] council.

[1:47:50] Thank you.

[1:47:52] Anybody else from Oernow would like to come up tonight?

[1:47:57] You know other people from Oernow?

[1:47:59] Is there any other non-citizens of Oernow that would like to come up and speak tonight?

[1:48:10] Veterans in 21, 150 horseshoe trail, I just moved recently, I'm glad I'm not in this neighborhood anymore.

[1:48:22] Mr. Crosby, a couple three meetings ago, two meetings ago, we had a,

[1:48:28] A little bit of a curve fuffle out front.

[1:48:31] I hope it was caught on body camera.

[1:48:34] I almost got arrested.

[1:48:37] That was interesting.

[1:48:40] But it was all over the Nazi stuff, remember?

[1:48:45] Three meetings ago.

[1:48:47] You called me a Nazi from the dais here in Orano.

[1:48:50] How is that representing the citizens here?

[1:48:53] Why are you looking at them?

[1:48:54] Are they going to arrest me for exercising my first amendment, right?

[1:48:58] Is that what you were doing out in Washington, D.C. on January 6th of 2021?

[1:49:05] Is that what you were doing?

[1:49:06] That's funny to you.

[1:49:08] I don't think it's real funny.

[1:49:10] Boring to you?

[1:49:12] I don't think it's real boring either.

[1:49:14] I don't think that legally you should even be allowed to sit there.

[1:49:21] Because in the Constitution, as you should know,

[1:49:26] anyone who has any part in

[1:49:28] insurrection or giving aid or

[1:49:31] comfort to anyone involved in an

[1:49:33] insurrection is unfit for

[1:49:37] office. I think that includes

[1:49:39] you. I wonder how involved he

[1:49:42] was, you know, with the videos

[1:49:44] you guys send out. What kind of

[1:49:46] stuff are you guys into? You

[1:49:48] know, there's a there's a town

[1:49:50] down in Tennessee just south of

[1:49:53] where those two black lawmakers

[1:49:55] workers got thrown out and then voted back in.

[1:49:58] That was something, huh?

[1:49:59] They got proud boys showing up now to protect

[1:50:03] their city council people who are running from mayor.

[1:50:09] Isn't that weird?

[1:50:11] Yeah, I think Franklin or Franklin Coney, I can't remember.

[1:50:15] Tennessee, look it up.

[1:50:17] Is that what we're gonna have here?

[1:50:18] Your body's gonna come and protect you?

[1:50:20] You got these guys here for no, but how long is that gonna go on?

[1:50:24] Why do they need to protect you?

[1:50:27] Why were the proud boys needing to protect you?

[1:50:30] Don't let the governors mention.

[1:50:32] And who was protecting you out in Washington?

[1:50:35] And who's going to protect us from you?

[1:50:38] That's what I'm wondering, right?

[1:50:42] All this right-wing ultra-mega, whatever.

[1:50:45] You've gone off the tracks, man.

[1:50:48] You need to apologize and denounce this kind of stuff.

[1:50:53] Take a step back. Are you going to be a man? Mr. Walsh isn't. You don't get to deny it. It's on tape.

[1:51:01] He's got at least one or two degrees of separation. You don't. You sat here. She tried to stop you and you shut her down.

[1:51:09] Thank you, Brad.

[1:51:10] Roode.

[1:51:11] Roode.

[1:51:12] On the original residents that would like to come up tonight.

[1:51:16] One more, I'm back there.

[1:51:17] Again, thank

[1:51:27] you.

[1:51:27] Richie Anderson, I live at 302-05, Crystal Bay Road.

[1:51:31] I own a couple of marinas in Orno,

[1:51:35] I'm on five with the six marinas in Orno.

[1:51:38] And I've lived here 70 years.

[1:51:41] I started in 1976 and in our first marina.

[1:51:47] So, interesting that we're talking about the fire department.

[1:51:51] The predecessors, Mayor Peterson and Mayor Jebore got the first fire stations going and I think they signed a 25 year note with long leg if I'm Matt could correct me.

[1:52:08] Well, let's come do.

[1:52:10] And I'm so glad that you pulled 9 and 10 off the agenda consent.

[1:52:16] This is a monumental night. This is the start of their OFD.

[1:52:23] And I want to thank the folks that have signed up.

[1:52:27] I personally talked to one of the six that are going to be full time.

[1:52:35] He was losing sleep over his decision to leave his previous

[1:52:40] of fire department because of the pressure that he was facing from John Cue Public and

[1:52:51] his compadres, but he made the decision to come over to here.

[1:52:56] And how about a 34-year-old veteran coming over to the OFD?

[1:53:00] That's pretty cool.

[1:53:01] I want to personally thank the three-part time as one of which is here,

[1:53:06] Shea, Nate, Kayla, I want to really reach out and tell them how proud I am of Jeff

[1:53:14] Kroll, Ryan Canive, JB, Justin Hinker, Mike John's Rude, Ben Carlson, and Tom Aldrich

[1:53:24] and Mr. Veech, because it is not an easy decision to do this.

[1:53:30] And the horse that Clyde Stales have left the barn, we are moving forward through the

[1:53:36] tutelage of the chiefs, and Adam, to get this thing done.

[1:53:47] So these guys, in my opinion, are heroes for starting this thing.

[1:53:52] And we talked about the Relief Association Fund, and I know it's not started yet, but North

[1:53:58] sure Marina will commit to the next five years for $50,000. First $10,000 check is right

[1:54:07] here to start the relief fund. Wow. And by me leading on guys that got, if I had their

[1:54:16] money, I'd burn mine. They'll step up to the plate and they'll help fund this thing.

[1:54:22] This is monumental. This is not a scorch-shurse thing. This started way back in the day when

[1:54:28] and the two fire stations got set up.

[1:54:33] Anyway, I'd like to come down and shake your hand.

[1:54:35] Yeah.

[1:54:36] If you accept this,

[1:54:38] Dave,

[1:54:40] that's awesome.

[1:54:41] Thank you, Richie.

[1:54:42] Yeah, I'm doing business here.

[1:54:44] Yeah, I'm Danny.

[1:54:53] Let's do a

[1:55:02] picture right now.

[1:55:11] If you come back up,

[1:55:12] I was going to picture just right under the, uh,

[1:55:14] Arnold Crestier.

[1:55:39] All right, get it off the TV.

[1:55:41] Thanks, Richie.

[1:55:42] You're studying.

[1:55:43] I

[1:55:53] was seeing nobody else.

[1:55:56] Talk tonight, I will move it to the Mayor Council report.

[1:56:01] Councilmember Beach.

[1:56:05] I'm speechless.

[1:56:06] I talked

[1:56:14] to James and Adam last week and said, you have a lot.

[1:56:20] The expectations are high and everything that I ask for from any current contract, I would

[1:56:27] absolutely ask for from our moving forward.

[1:56:32] And every conversation I have makes me pretty excited about what's going on.

[1:56:40] Mr. Benson.

[1:56:42] Yes, I was disappointed to learn that the City of Orno and the City of Long Lake were unable

[1:56:46] to use the time in court-ordered mediation to come to a mutually agreeable solution with

[1:56:50] the contract.

[1:56:52] And one thing that I would like to hear more of in the future conversations around the

[1:56:57] fair department is what's known as insurance service office or ISO rating for our citizens

[1:57:02] in Orno. This is how fire departments are assessed for risk, and the risk in a new department

[1:57:09] that is untested. You led by a chief that while he has experience, he has never stood up a

[1:57:14] department before. The risk is significant. And this is a risk that has not been adequately

[1:57:20] explained to our residents, especially those in the service area of number two down by Navar.

[1:57:27] Insurance companies do not favor risk, and our ISO rating at this point is undetermined.

[1:57:32] So that's all I'd like to share.

[1:57:36] Council member Frazby.

[1:57:38] Richie Anderson, you've blown me away a man.

[1:57:41] That was just totally awesome.

[1:57:46] I was just going to say,

[1:57:49] your love and commitment to Orano

[1:57:53] is just beautiful.

[1:57:56] So God bless you and your family.

[1:57:59] Your generosity has been outstanding.

[1:58:01] So I really appreciate it.

[1:58:04] It definitely almost brings a tear to my eye.

[1:58:11] It's, you know, it's so nice to see that kind of commitment.

[1:58:14] And, you know, like, it's the one thing, you know,

[1:58:18] and James knows because he was a volunteer firefighter

[1:58:21] before he came to chief.

[1:58:22] But when you volunteer and you give to your community,

[1:58:26] you get so much back.

[1:58:27] It's tenfold.

[1:58:30] The amount of excitement that comes into firefighting and learning medicals and things of that nature and helping your fellow citizens in the middle of the night come through some of the worst times that our life, it's awesome.

[1:58:44] And the training that you get that you wind up using, you never know where could be a gym or something, right, Chase?

[1:58:53] It's valuable and it's great, so I'm sorry Miss last week, like I said, that meeting could not be avoided being missed.

[1:59:06] Our community lost a very nice young man who I knew personally and my daughter and her husband are very close friends with him and it was a tragic loss.

[1:59:18] But I felt like that was the decision I needed to make.

[1:59:24] But other than that, you know, it's, I'm excited.

[1:59:29] I'm excited for one out of fire.

[1:59:31] I think it's going to be outstanding.

[1:59:34] We've got the ducks on the truck, and it looks good.

[1:59:38] So you know, it's going to be terrific, and we've got a great leader, we've got great personnel

[1:59:45] joining the department already, so it's going to be an exciting time it really is

[1:59:50] but that will not close the door ever on us working with the city of

[1:59:58] Long Lake down the road.

[2:00:00] Because as everybody knows, in the fire service, it's about working together, community, and helping each other out. And that's most important.

[2:00:12] Thank you. A couple things just want to address some of the resident feedback here. And I think there is a misconception that if we have a different opinion than you, that means we're not listening.

[2:00:30] And I think what we saw tonight was a resident that's in support of the fire department and

[2:00:37] what we're doing, come out of the woodwork and say, hey, I want to make it clear that I support what's going on here.

[2:00:45] And as much as I appreciate, the regular attenders of our meetings and

[2:00:53] it's been valuable getting your feedback and information.

[2:00:59] I don't always agree with you, and what you don't have visibility to is that I talk to many, many, many residents.

[2:01:07] And so in my decisions and in my votes, I'm representing the population of Orno, not just the people that come in the meetings every week.

[2:01:18] You don't have visibility to who I talk to, what information I have, what other residents are wanting us to do.

[2:01:27] And so I take my vote seriously, I understand what my job is.

[2:01:31] I 100% believe in what we're doing with Orno Fire.

[2:01:35] This is not the easiest thing to do.

[2:01:38] It's not the most popular thing to do, but it's the right thing to do.

[2:01:42] And this puts Orno in the position to protect their citizens to the level of service and

[2:01:48] expectations that our residents require of us.

[2:01:53] And this puts us in that position.

[2:01:54] It's difficult.

[2:01:55] It's expensive, but it's the right thing for the future.

[2:01:59] So I don't want there to be confusion between if I disagree with you, which means I'm not

[2:02:03] listening because that isn't a fair relationship that you're trying to make.

[2:02:08] The other thing is really important that you don't represent rumors as facts.

[2:02:15] And I'll address two of those.

[2:02:19] I participated at the mediation.

[2:02:21] And anyone that says that we didn't go there in an honest effort to find a solution wasn't there.

[2:02:30] Because if you were, you'll want to walk away saying, boy, Orno didn't do their part.

[2:02:36] I was there, we did our part.

[2:02:38] So don't say it if you don't know it as a fact.

[2:02:41] And the other thing about sound data, another big annoyance, and glad it was brought up.

[2:02:47] We spent a lot of time understanding data.

[2:02:50] If people want to understand more, ask more questions.

[2:02:54] Our data was honest about evaluating response times.

[2:03:01] So, people might use different ways to evaluate it, but ours was honest based on a nationally recognized methodology.

[2:03:10] So, it's very important if you want to be a, us to be good listeners, you'll be a good listener too.

[2:03:20] And listen and don't state things that you don't know for sure is fact.

[2:03:24] And I think we can make a lot more progress that way.

[2:03:28] Lastly, you know, I just, you know, thank you, Richie and I, you know,

[2:03:32] something that he said in his comments is that, you know,

[2:03:36] So what these firefighters are is about sacrifice and this extra complication of not having some elected officials and some public against these firefighters that are making the decision to move over to Orno is real.

[2:03:53] And so we're placing an extra burden on them, but this decision has been made, and I really respect the firefighters that are new to us.

[2:04:02] And the firefighters that are having the courage to not only protect our community, but also come aboard even though it's not the easiest thing to do, but they know it's the right thing to do too.

[2:04:14] So, thank you, Richie.

[2:04:16] Thanks for bringing that point up, and thanks for the new firefighters.

[2:04:20] Thanks.

[2:04:20] I

[2:04:23] echo everything you said, so I'm not going to relaborate again, but what I will say is the people who come up here and say that you don't listen to the vocal opposition, this is what the vocal support looks like.

[2:04:37] This is what the vocal support sounds like, and there's everywhere that I talk to as well.

[2:04:45] Since the last meeting, a whole bunch of stuff is going on.

[2:04:49] Besides a sad game with the Vikings that I attended.

[2:04:53] typical, typical, one and four.

[2:04:56] Yeah, there you go.

[2:04:59] So I guess that's a rebuilding year.

[2:05:02] Another rebuilding year I guess.

[2:05:04] Last week we had the homecoming game versus Providence.

[2:05:08] Oerno is a six and all.

[2:05:10] They are killing it.

[2:05:11] They are doing great.

[2:05:12] We, I was 34 and a half time or something.

[2:05:16] So we watched the festivities a half time

[2:05:18] and then it was freezing.

[2:05:19] So we laughed and came back and picked up

[2:05:21] the girls later, but they are doing great. The last home game is this Friday. So if you want to go to the last home game, it's this Friday.

[2:05:29] It's the definition of a fair weather to fan.

[2:05:36] And it is senior night. So they'll have some fun stuff for seniors. I've got a senior. So she's definitely looking forward to it.

[2:05:42] And all the seniors at the homecoming game had all this great paraphernalia on.

[2:05:47] is they had so much fun with the homecoming dance the next night so we're bringing girls

[2:05:53] all over town to different places to eat and then to dance and then to after parties

[2:05:58] then to sleep over so it was it was a blast so it's fun to see.

[2:06:02] We also had the first ever homecoming parade with the Ornall Fire Department.

[2:06:08] She found out I all drove me and councilmember Vichin, councilmember Crosby here and we

[2:06:15] We honked the horn at gazillion times, people were waving.

[2:06:18] We had an absolute blast.

[2:06:19] That was fun.

[2:06:20] That was the inaugural.

[2:06:21] So we were there.

[2:06:22] And you had a blast.

[2:06:23] And you had a blast.

[2:06:24] Yeah, you had a blast.

[2:06:25] Right.

[2:06:25] The rail.

[2:06:26] He was absolutely thrilled.

[2:06:29] I was also invited to, by rabbi's Zimmerman, to come out to Camp Tico in Orno.

[2:06:35] There's a very large camp on the Orno chain here and they had a $13 million campaign that

[2:06:43] that they put together over the course of time to re-do the entire camp for more kids for

[2:06:49] the next 50 years because they've owned it for 60 years to get it all placed camp and

[2:06:56] it's just amazing.

[2:06:57] They've been through the council, so we helped them get all that through, and so that was

[2:07:01] a great event.

[2:07:02] I think I posted them on the Facebook side, I think it was in the lake or pioneer, and it

[2:07:06] was an absolute great, it's owned by a temple Israel, it's called Camp Tico, and my heart

[2:07:12] was out to the people from Israel as well that's going on over the Middle East.

[2:07:20] The coffee, my mayor for coffee, was typically the second Wednesday of the month.

[2:07:25] It's going to be the third Wednesday of the month this month, because I'm not available

[2:07:28] on this coming Wednesday.

[2:07:30] I know I think it just went out on the list serve from right at him today, I think I saw it

[2:07:34] go out to make sure everybody knows not to come Wednesday morning for donuts and coffee.

[2:07:38] It'll be next Wednesday morning.

[2:07:41] I think that's all I got right now, so we're, this meeting is going to be closed after

[2:07:50] this as permitted by the Attorney Client Privilege Section 13DO5 subdivision 3B to discuss

[2:07:57] litigation strategy regarding the following lawsuits, one, the City of Long Lake versus

[2:08:02] the City of Orno and two, Jane Aguard versus the City of Orno, Sorn Manic.

[2:08:05] So with that motion to close the meeting, so moved.

[2:08:11] On favor say aye.

[2:08:12] Aye.

[2:08:13] We'll take a five minute.

City Council Meeting

Agenda

Transcript