[0:16] foreign

[0:51] good evening and welcome to the Paso Robles Planning Commission of March 14

[0:56] 2023. I'd like to call a meeting to order and if you would please stand and

[1:00] join me in the Pledge of Allegiance thank you

[1:06] pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[1:12] Republic of which it stands foreign

[1:24] thank you item C on our agenda is roll call staff would please conduct the Roll

[1:28] Call commissioner Christensen present

[1:32] commissioner Connolly commissioner cover rubius here commissioner Davis

[1:38] commissioner Marlow here commissioner Neal here commissioner kogler here

[1:42] record will reflect the commissioner Davis's absence she had a family

[1:46] emergency okay and if you're a student of roll calls you did notice there are

[1:51] two new names you probably hadn't heard before so I would like to formally

[1:54] welcome Pat and Eric to the Planning Commission in a bit larger public forum

[1:57] than it was the last time we were together so welcome we look forward to

[2:01] working with both of you and the rest of the commission

[2:05] um okay um item e on our agenda is the election

[2:08] of chairperson and vice chairperson of the Planning Commission and I would like

[2:12] to kick that off with a quick comment and then probably a motion uh past

[2:17] practice and patterns have been that the pro tem moves into the chair position

[2:22] um on an annual basis and when we were together about a year ago

[2:27] um Mr Neal was the pro tem and wasn't in a position to assume the chair and so I

[2:30] continued for a second year at this point in time Joel I think schedule has

[2:35] gotten a little more rational at least I hope so and I believe he's more amenable

[2:39] to the motion I'm going to make which would be to advance Joe Neal to the

[2:43] chairperson of the Paso Robles Planning Commission that is a motion and it would

[2:46] take a second to proceed second by commissioner cover rubius

[2:51] I'll second that seconded by commissioner cover rubius uh

[2:55] any further discussion or other nominations

[2:59] hearing none I would ask for a roll call vote to be taken

[3:03] commissioner kogler aye commissioner cover rubias aye

[3:07] commissioner Neal aye commissioner Christensen

[3:11] aye commissioner Marlow aye commissioner Connolly I motion passes six zero

[3:21] well I guess I get to do the vice president oh he does doesn't he yeah

[3:24] you're no longer there there I'm gone my name tag and moving on

[3:36] good luck

[3:44] so before I dive in I would like to very much thank

[3:48] um former chair kogler for his two years of a hard and diligent effort as

[3:54] chairperson of the Planning Commission um I think I probably threw him a

[3:58] curveball last year but uh thank you again mark

[4:03] so with that I'll be accepting um nominations for vice chair

[4:09] if I don't hear anyone I will make that nomination myself and I nominate Ty

[4:13] Christensen for vice chair I will second that

[4:19] any uh other nominations or further discussion

[4:24] seeing none who is the second Mr Kohler foreign

[4:39] ER Marlow aye commissioner Connolly hi motion passes 6-0

[4:48] so Vice chair Christensen you want to move over next to the chair

[5:00] this is

[5:25] great I think we may have skipped over staff introductions

[5:30] Warren phrase community development director

[5:34] Marcie Reynoso and Ashley Peterson Administrative Assistant also Darcy

[5:38] Delgado is remote she's an associate planner

[5:42] their International

[5:45] [Music]

[5:53] great and with that um it's now time for general public comments regarding

[5:58] matters not on the agenda as anybody in the audience wish to speak for matters

[6:02] not on the agenda Marcy anybody online no callers saying

[6:08] none close that portion and we'll start

[6:12] public any agenda items proposed to be tabled or rescheduled this evening there

[6:17] are none okay thank you in the next section is public hearings our first

[6:22] public hearing of the evening is a conditional use permit

[6:27] 23-01 for an automobile dealership p23-002

[6:36] um staff

[6:40] [Music]

[7:00] Katie Bannister associate planner so this as you said is a conditional use

[7:04] permit for a new motor car dealership to be located out on combine Street

[7:10] so here is an image of combine streets kind of a loop of Street in the

[7:16] southwest corner is the new project site this was formerly proposed to be used

[7:21] for caps construction the both Planning Commission and DRC reviewed different

[7:25] site details for this site a number of times but now a new use is proposed here

[7:29] LVS motor I'm forgetting the name motor cars there

[7:34] we go um so moving on so the project request

[7:38] as I said is a conditional use permit um this is a used auto dealership but it is

[7:43] for kind of a niche market uh cars these are special I think um sometimes uh

[7:48] vintage cars and higher end vehicles um they are going this project is going

[7:53] into an existing building um the building does have seven on-site

[7:57] uh outdoor parking spaces that would be available for customers and the

[8:01] employees to park in in addition there's an indoor showroom it has space for

[8:06] about 15 to 20 cars um the the parking that is being

[8:11] proposed on the site is car dealerships there's not a specific parking ratio

[8:17] that's in our in our municipal code and so there is a note within the parking

[8:22] standards that says when there's not specific parking requirements and

[8:25] interpretation of parking impacts and spaces needs and parking spaces that are

[8:30] needed based on a similar use can be determined by the community development

[8:33] director and ultimately by the Planning Commission so this evening staff is

[8:37] recommending that the on-site parking requirement be based on sort of the

[8:41] office and um and customer spaces which would require I believe six parking

[8:47] spaces but there are actually seven parking spaces required or excuse me

[8:52] provided so um a look at the operations for the

[8:57] the business they will be open Tuesdays to Saturdays from 9 to 6 p.m there'll be

[9:02] three employees working on this site um and as I said in a previous slide 15

[9:06] to 20 Vehicles can fit in that showroom um and for viewing and purchase but the

[9:11] business does also include an e-retail component I think a lot of the business

[9:15] gets done on the internet so people do will come to the site to look at cars

[9:19] but they'll also have the opportunity to have that interaction online the

[9:23] businesses does not include any vehicle service nor part sales so that all the

[9:28] trips to the site will be for those looking at the cars there in the the

[9:32] showroom so here is a look at the site and floor

[9:36] plan I'm there on the bottom left you can see that there is that large indoor

[9:40] vehicle showroom but then there's the conference room and offices there off to

[9:45] the east side of the I guess I'm stating that wrong because

[9:48] uh North would be to the to the left here so on the south portion of the

[9:52] building is where you've got the customer and conference room areas so

[9:56] the office and Lounge is just about 2 000 square feet you've got almost three

[9:59] thousand square feet of showroom you can get a look at the peek at the

[10:05] elevations there so um the existing site looking at the

[10:09] colors and Landscaping these are recent pictures this is a recently installed

[10:13] site so it's fully landscaped all the um the finishes are on the building

[10:19] um here you see a image from the West at the top and then there is an enclosure

[10:24] at the rear um the the enclosure did go through

[10:27] several rounds of DRC review even the setback for that the fence was reviewed

[10:32] by the Planning Commission as well and so here is the fence in place

[10:38] um so one of the questions that the DRC had about the project was how do the

[10:42] vehicles get into the building there is a roll-up door on the west side of the

[10:46] building and then you can see in the bottom what that showroom space will

[10:50] look like so there's some there's some storage in there now for caps

[10:54] construction But ultimately that will will go and the the um the vehicles for

[10:59] sale will be shown in that showroom there is one sign proposed it would be

[11:04] on the south facing elevation it's a black metal backer with a laser cut logo

[11:09] and it will be led backlit the dimensions of the sign are four feet by

[11:14] eight four feet tall by eight feet wide you can see it there superimposed on the

[11:18] elevation at the bottom as well

[11:22] so um we are recommending some changes to the draft resolution we would like to

[11:27] add we would like the Planning Commission to add one whereas recital

[11:31] um or excuse me it would be an amendment to one of the whereas statements

[11:35] um as you can see it would instead of saying that it's that the applicant is

[11:40] requesting a reduced parking requirement instead you would be making a finding

[11:44] that uh seven on-site parking spaces would be the required parking for this

[11:50] use permit in addition um in the draft resolution and the

[11:54] findings the finding number four we would recommend that some added language

[11:59] be put at the bottom so that the um the the use is compatible with its

[12:06] location and based on the fact that the seven on-site parking spaces are

[12:10] determined to be compatible at this location based on the specific use and

[12:14] as Allowed by the Paso Robles Municipal Code Municipal Code table

[12:20] 21.22.01 there's a note that states that uh that an interpretation can be made to

[12:26] set the parking needs based on parking impacts and

[12:31] needed parking based on the use and then in the conditions of approval

[12:37] staff is recommending that a condition 13 be added that would authorize the

[12:42] establishment of this luxury used car dealership and within the existing

[12:46] building and it would specifically call out that the parking requirement for

[12:49] this is seven parking spaces in addition a condition is recommended that would

[12:54] require if they make any changes to the project that result in changes to the

[12:58] floor plan that would increase that increase the size of that Office

[13:01] customer Lounge area it would require an amendment to this conditional use permit

[13:05] so that we can take another look at parking

[13:09] the Planning Commission always has options the first and what staff is

[13:13] recommending is that you approve the attached resolution with those

[13:16] recommended changes that that would Grant approval of the conditional use

[13:20] permit and allow seven on-site parking spaces you could certainly make

[13:25] amendments or to um and as we're recommending changes to the the

[13:29] resolution and and continue to approve the conditional use permit if the

[13:34] Planning Commission would like to reject the the application you would need to

[13:38] make specific findings that the project does not comply with

[13:42] any of the required findings and that um concludes staff for staff's

[13:47] report I believe we do have a representative from the business in in

[13:51] the uh in city hall with us this evening

[13:55] great Katie thank you so much I was wondering if you go back to the changes

[13:59] the conditions of approval

[14:03] and those are the two changes so those would be the changes to the

[14:07] conditions of approval the previous slide would be some changes to the

[14:11] language in the resolution itself so I'm looking at our conditions of approval on

[14:15] page 19 and I only have eight

[14:20] so those should probably be probably be numbers nine and ten okay thank you

[14:26] and then with that I'll allow the applicant to speak this is the time we

[14:31] usually do that if they so wish

[14:39] hello my name is Michael tenor um

[14:43] do you have any questions

[14:47] we may and you have something great job I mean everything I would say she pretty

[14:52] much said it exactly um all of the vehicles will be stored

[14:56] inside overnight during the day the parking area will be for for customers

[15:03] there's not a lot of Staff that's going to be there so we're not taken up by a

[15:06] lot of staff

[15:09] and yeah

[15:14] great thank you

[15:19] and with that I'll ask I'll ask the commission if they have any

[15:23] questions uh commissioner Marlow any questions

[15:28] of Staff or the applicant yeah I'm just curious

[15:31] um are you going to be washing and detailing cars at this location

[15:38] everything else will be off-site so detailing will be off-site service will

[15:42] be off-site all other aspects of the business are offsite great and then any

[15:47] plans for a future expansion additional employees

[15:50] possibly future employees but only like one or two at best probably not for a

[15:56] while cool that's all I got commissioner Conley

[16:02] I have a question I guess more for staff if there's a change in ownership a

[16:08] change in a business at this location does the uh

[16:14] does the conditional use permit get Revisited or changed because you uh you

[16:20] this conditional use permit has specifics to this project this owner in

[16:24] this business if the business changes does the conditional use permit get get

[16:28] Revisited that's more for staff yeah

[16:34] um so if

[16:36] if over this operation and operate in the same way as this business they could

[16:40] continue to operate under this conditional use permit if they make any

[16:44] changes like say they wanted to continue doing a car sales but it there were

[16:48] changes made to you know the operations it would require an amendment to the

[16:52] conditional use permit if it's not consistent with the conditions you have

[16:56] you would approve this evening if some other permitted use there you know

[17:00] there's lots of things that are permitted in the C3 zoning District that

[17:03] doesn't require a conditional use permit they could they could also operate um

[17:07] you know without Planning Commission action but um what you're approving

[17:12] doesn't necessarily isn't specific to this owner but it is specific to the way

[17:16] this project is proposed thank you commissioner Christensen

[17:24] thank you Katie um

[17:27] I have a couple questions when this project was originally

[17:31] approved this building um I noticed I'm very familiar with the

[17:35] neighborhood over there um that it's under 5 000 square feet was

[17:39] this building sprinkle sprinkler at the time

[17:43] and would it be required now that they're adding Office Space

[17:49] no it sounds like the applicant is not when and there's nothing in this

[17:53] conditional use permit that would allow expansion of space I'm not familiar

[17:57] whether or not the building was sprinkler

[18:00] um Darcy is on the line when was more involved in with the Caps construction

[18:03] project Darcy do you happen to know whether or not fire sprinklers were

[18:06] installed

[18:09] I do not know if fire sprinklers were installed but as Katie mentioned

[18:14] um if you know they're not changing the the building score footage and so if

[18:19] they weren't required with the building Pro you know as the building was

[18:23] constructed and um and completed that the uh the request tonight did not also

[18:28] not trigger any uh changes to fire sprinklers

[18:32] thanks Lori so I'm just trying to make some clarification so because I was

[18:38] under the impression that there was added office spaces they're not a new

[18:42] lounge and added with additional office space or is that was was that original

[18:45] to the build out the customer Lounge this is Darcy again

[18:50] so the what's shown on the site plan and the floor plan

[18:54] um was originally a belief I can take a look

[18:58] um you know dedicated office area and look I believe that the applicant has

[19:04] just superimposed you know the um the terminology that they're using

[19:08] for their customer Lounge maybe he can answer that a little bit better

[19:12] um since he updated the site plan I can answer both of your questions so

[19:16] no there is no sprinklers uh Devin Mr Katz stated that if it was over 5000

[19:21] square foot that needed sprinklers this building is for 4814 I believe

[19:28] um as far as the customer Lounge that was going to be Devon Cap's showroom so

[19:33] that is nothing's been added um or built out that was originally in

[19:37] his plan the conference room offices all of that

[19:42] stuff is all the same as it was for death

[19:46] okay so um this is for staff

[19:49] um so essentially if there's not a change in use the the requirements don't

[19:53] change um even though the square foot of the

[19:56] building satisfies what the original requirements were is that correct that's

[20:00] correct if there's any changes that require building perimeter occupancy

[20:03] changes our building department can look at it and make sure that it's complying

[20:07] but I don't believe it needs fire sprinklers okay okay

[20:10] um then another question um

[20:14] one of the questions was answered about the detail and that was a great question

[20:18] um how many employees are anticipated to be employed at this location

[20:23] so the applicant estate and anticipate having three three

[20:27] employees and then I think previously indicated in the future they might like

[20:30] to add maybe one or two um as my understanding okay so

[20:36] um was worse and I was just trying to clarify this because the way I was

[20:39] reading I was a little confused were seven

[20:42] parking spaces originally on site already that's right the project was

[20:47] there a warehouse use and so yes seven parking spaces were provided this is not

[20:52] exactly a warehouse that's got a bit more customer

[20:54] orientation but because um like if if the showroom was an

[20:59] uncovered showroom we wouldn't require parking for you know like we've got car

[21:03] dealerships along theater drive and we don't make them you know provide parking

[21:08] for those parking spaces so staff is recommending that we would treat this

[21:12] showroom similar to how we would treat an outdoor parking area so we would just

[21:17] make the app we would recommend that the applicant provide parking for just the

[21:21] offices and Conference kind of the more human oriented areas

[21:27] okay I think I understand that thank you Katie

[21:31] um let's see

[21:35] I think I've got another question I'll let someone else ask some questions at

[21:38] this time commissioner

[21:42] thank you just a couple questions um

[21:45] the sign that's being proposed there's a sign on the building right now that

[21:48] looks like this site but I don't believe it's in the same location can you tell

[21:52] me is that the sign that's going to be relocated is that the sign we're dealing

[21:56] with just one sign not more than one the sign I'm sorry the sign that is on there

[22:01] right now is a temporary sign for uh DMV licensing so it has to be a certain size

[22:07] at least so it has to be a two by two sign next to the address for DMV

[22:14] purposes when the sign goes up on the the big sign goes up that will still

[22:19] work because you can still take a picture of it and see the address and

[22:23] the big sign so that is that sign is temporary it was actually I'm gonna go

[22:28] take it down tonight actually they came and did their inspection today so that

[22:32] sign is rectangular though it's not two by two it's a two by three signs so the

[22:38] one that will be permanent will be larger and up higher correct as proposed

[22:41] okay very good thank you then another question for you quickly will you Market

[22:44] through bring a trailer and similar auction sites not a hundred percent sure

[22:49] on that yet a lot of online sources so cars.com CarGurus things like that

[22:56] um possibly bring a trailer I haven't looked into that yet so would that be

[23:00] the Principal vehicle by which customers might come to look at a car if they

[23:04] happen to live in the geographic area and you advertise it in one of those

[23:07] forums they may come and look at it you see other scenarios in which the public

[23:10] actually comes to this site correct yes so you would come and do your test drive

[23:14] and everything else if if they needed to come to the area to purchase we've

[23:19] definitely I've been in the in the industry my whole life so sometimes

[23:23] people don't even come to the dealership they'll just buy and we'll deliver it to

[23:27] them and I assume occasionally you'd have a transport coming in to move

[23:30] product to and from typically yes so if we're going to do

[23:34] something like that we would put it on a truck you'd see a semi occasionally

[23:38] um not typically not not the way that we're going to do it our cars will be

[23:41] enclosed trailers right but so people like reliable have very large trucks

[23:44] that are in close trailers yeah I mean some of them are some of these okay all

[23:48] right thank you commissioner thank you um to the

[23:53] applicant real quick just for the commission to hear this

[23:56] um the the zoning requires that 25 percent

[24:00] be used vehicles is that right Katie right so what does the zoning ordinance

[24:06] allows is that if this was an entirely new if all the cars being sold on the on

[24:10] in the project were new It's actually an allowed use when you when the applicant

[24:14] introduces used car sales then it's a conditionally allowed use and so he he's

[24:19] here asking for a conditional use permit because he intends to sell used cars

[24:22] used cars so just to clarify that is the main advantage Vehicles is what I'm

[24:27] really starting to hear is that is that accurate more along the lines of luxury

[24:32] Vehicles okay high-end luxury cars okay but we also have a half a

[24:43] got it okay um all right no other questions

[24:52] thank you chairperson Neil um I know my other question was Katie I

[24:58] I had written note so you're you're saying that normally 15 spaces would be

[25:03] required but we're saying that we're comfortable with seven is that what I

[25:07] read here so for a commercial use of for a building that's I can't remember the

[25:12] exact size 4 800 square feet however much it is if we were considering the

[25:17] whole building to be just a regular commercial use it would require three

[25:20] parking spaces for every thousand square feet so that would be um you know so

[25:25] let's just call it five times three you know 14 15.

[25:28] um but because of the nature of what's being sold here the sort of the widget

[25:32] that's being sold is so large um you know we just don't expect as much

[25:36] customer turnover as we would if they were selling you know something smaller

[25:39] for you know five thousand square feet of say computer parts or you know

[25:43] something of a smaller nature would take less space I'm not explaining it very

[25:47] well but because of the nature of the type of of sales that are going on here

[25:51] staff is recommending that seven parking spaces would be appropriate and so to

[25:56] that follow-up question on that Katie so with the um

[26:00] as part of the cup there's no way to really

[26:04] monitor the amount of traffic hopefully you know I'm sure they want to be

[26:08] successful so but we can't limit you know they're they're saying they're

[26:12] doing a lot of it online or via phone and I'm sure they probably will today

[26:15] technology is great but I'm sure that they'll be

[26:19] um people wanting to come there we we haven't we in other words there's not

[26:23] really a way to monitor that under the cup is that correct so the intent of

[26:27] this up is to make sure that this business is compatible with the

[26:30] neighborhood it's not a staff recommendation but it is possible to

[26:33] review cups over time um we haven't really been in the

[26:37] practice of doing that and I'm not really recommending it but if you know

[26:40] if we are getting a lot of compliances this business is causing you know too

[26:45] much parking some sort of issue we can review that and and you know bring it

[26:48] back to the Planning Commission for your review

[26:51] um it would be a fairly extreme case where that would happen okay thanks

[26:55] that's it for me sir

[26:58] and I was on a DRC when this was um

[27:02] brought forward to DRC and I don't have any questions at this time

[27:07] um as this is a public hearing I'd like to open it up to the public or is there

[27:10] anybody in the audience that would like to speak to this item

[27:14] please come up state your name and address

[27:27] this

[27:34] hello thank you my name is Jim McKenzie I own

[27:38] the properties adjoining this we've had a significant amount of problem with who

[27:42] will end up being his landlord um so I just try to determine whether or

[27:46] not the person that's trespassed on our

[27:49] property destroyed our property done tons of things like that over the last

[27:54] couple of years is going to be the business owner so I don't want to affect

[27:56] him he has every opportunity to have to run a business but it was presented to

[28:00] me that this was he was partnering with the person we've had a lot of problem

[28:05] with the problem I do have with it is we've had opportunity we own four of

[28:10] the four Lots behind this and we've had opportunity to do

[28:15] um build the suits but because of the restraints of this we were not able to

[28:20] accommodate that so my fear is that if this is going to be accepted then we

[28:25] have all we have to do is say we're using it

[28:28] for one thing then change our use and then we can rent

[28:31] it for whatever we want and you know we have a gym across the street that has

[28:35] very little use of of Total Space because they needed so much parking

[28:40] this kind of falls in the same category I don't think they'll need as much

[28:43] parking but it definitely brings a concern of what the rest of the

[28:47] development is going to be and what US previous owners were able to develop

[28:55] prior to this so

[28:59] that would be it great thank you very much

[29:01] anyone else like to speak to this issue

[29:06] saying that Marcy anybody no colors and with that I will close public

[29:12] comment I'm not sure there was a question there

[29:16] um so bring it back to the commission for

[29:21] additional comment and or emotion

[29:25] but of course just a Clarity question I'm looking at page 19 under the

[29:29] conditions of approval it says the project shall be constructed I'm just

[29:32] for clarity the internal side of the property is it already like this or it

[29:37] still needs to be enhanced do the TI's need to be done or it's already like

[29:41] everything is the way it's going to be okay so it's already pretty much done

[29:44] okay okay all right thank you

[29:49] commissioner kogler uh no further discussion if there's no other

[29:53] discussion I'd be glad to offer a motion I do I'm sorry thank you

[29:59] um I do have a concern over the the way

[30:03] we're treating the parking and I understand that there's the parking

[30:06] space now my concern is for a lot of the the businesses that did develop there

[30:12] um they took into account that parking when they built the building out and

[30:16] when they designed that building knowing that there may be a future use issue

[30:19] down the road so I hope that this doesn't set some type of precedent

[30:23] because I feel like it's it's on the verge of that and we're just kind of

[30:27] skirting it by using this the the um storage space as uh as where the the

[30:35] new or new used cars would be which I could understand and I I could see that

[30:40] for luxury cars making sense I think that again I I feel that we're kind of

[30:47] doing a work around here to satisfy something that would have

[30:50] normally not been built in this way or probably approved if it wasn't

[30:55] um you know the way they're proposing the

[30:58] design and I do believe that there will be more employees there so the parking

[31:02] and customers I think will be limited either the employees will be parking on

[31:06] the street or the or the customers will be parking on the street one of the two

[31:10] will probably take place unless they can park inside so those are my thoughts

[31:16] Mr Conley

[31:19] I I agree with uh Ty you know with his comments I was gonna I was concerned

[31:25] whether it be off street parking and it doesn't look like it's provided here uh

[31:30] so uh with the same concern that you have three maybe four employees that

[31:37] doesn't leave much uh space for customers

[31:40] I agree thank you commissioner tomorrow no

[31:45] further comments so I do have a question there's a um Trailer Sales down on the

[31:51] other corner and I think they have two lots um for that trailer sales yard do

[31:57] we happen to remember what the parking ratio was for that particular facility

[32:04] sure I think this is Darren Ashley planner so

[32:08] I as you mentioned that project used more than one law I used at least three

[32:14] if I recall maybe more I don't remember what the specific ratio was but the uh

[32:21] they have quite a few parking spaces related to The Trailer Sales business

[32:25] and then they work on them and have different work on repair type Bays so

[32:32] they do have more they do have more room for parking lots they designed their

[32:37] building related to the type of use as kind of mentioned here you know these

[32:42] buildings were kind of built as shell buildings or warehouses with with some

[32:47] office use and that's how many of them are but to answer your question the

[32:51] trailer sales has much more room they built it for trucks trailers and the way

[32:56] in their building to maneuver that and they purchase the the building the the

[33:01] side and the building to accommodate that

[33:04] I think

[33:07] a lot of the Lots in the combine area are small a lot of times they were I

[33:12] don't remember this may have been two lots before and had to be combined to

[33:17] get this size I know a lot of the development in this area the Lots were

[33:23] just small historically and a lot of times more than one were used to get

[33:28] what's out there now I think the way to look at this is

[33:34] we have an existing building an existing parking and the parking was

[33:39] designed to accommodate a warehouse with an office and with this

[33:46] this one happened to have a small showroom this this probably has more

[33:50] parking spaces than many on combine that were more specifically warehouses

[33:55] so the the request tonight is for this use to go in here

[34:00] and they used to go in one of the reasons

[34:05] used car lots require use permits is where do the cars have

[34:11] parked a lot of times used car lots have

[34:15] wall-to-wall cars and they're stored outside and all that kind of thing and

[34:19] they can be an eyesore at times and that's why cups are required for that

[34:24] and not required for new car sales because new car sales are typically

[34:28] dealerships for this for this project I think the

[34:33] the cars are being stored inside where any product would have been stored

[34:38] inside no matter what the use is here this happens to be cars they have their

[34:43] office they store the cars inside the use permit requires the cars to be

[34:48] stored inside the question then comes

[34:52] is this use is this Auto Repair use in this area compatible and I think that's

[34:59] what the question has to come down to the parking parking is allowed on the

[35:04] streets you can park on the streets but we try to keep the required parking on

[35:09] site so the question before and the question

[35:12] the applicant the applicant is explained to us that this project can accommodate

[35:17] the employees and customers within the seven parking spaces so the question

[35:24] before the commission is whether that seven parking spaces is seems adequate

[35:29] for this business that has the product stored inside it is really what we're at

[35:36] so um

[35:41] there are uses that come in that in these lots that propose more parking

[35:49] and it just can't be done this one is is saying is this use permit

[35:55] appropriate here based on the current parking one of the one of the options

[35:58] could be no it isn't and the commission would need to make findings that that

[36:03] the parking is not sufficient for the use being proposed and tell us what

[36:10] great thank you very much and with that I will oh yes go ahead sorry all the

[36:16] parking conversations uh spurred a question if there's seven spots any of

[36:22] them required to be handicapped and I think at the site plan up there

[36:26] indicates that one of this okay I didn't see that okay thank you

[36:33] any further questions or comments yeah so in the event you get too many cars

[36:39] because you're doing well you get a bunch in things some are going to sell

[36:42] then don't sell and you can't fit them all inside what's your plan what are you

[36:47] gonna do um I don't have a plan for that because

[36:50] I don't expect that to happen so I'm not trying I have I'm the purchaser so I

[36:54] will be purchasing as needed so I will not I want all my cars inside for for to

[37:00] keep them out of the elements uh it's a better for me the whole reason I'm

[37:03] trying to do a warehouse and not your typical car lot as I feel it's a better

[37:07] experience for the customer when we have 110 Degree Days we're inside when we

[37:11] have rain like today we're inside uh I don't want to outgrow this area so

[37:16] that this is the area that I want to be in this is the the way it is right now

[37:20] is how I want it to be I'm not looking to add 50 more cars sure so uh my point

[37:27] of not letting it happen is I would not let it happen great and then if it okay

[37:32] I I trust you but beyond that is it does happen and cars are being left out is

[37:38] there any sort of repercussion behind that

[37:41] yeah so the the resolution before you would require all of the the vehicles

[37:47] for sale to be stored indoors if that starts occurring Outdoors they would be

[37:51] in violation of their conditional use permit and enforcement would occur great

[37:54] thanks any further questions

[37:59] entertain a motion Mr chair um first a quick statement I when I

[38:04] first looked at the packet and so used car dealership I went oh really but when

[38:09] I read it and I've actually been a customer of these types of businesses in

[38:12] a couple different places and it's very low-key I'm comfortable the parking will

[38:15] work and I'm also comfortable that we have controls in place that should any

[38:18] aspect of this business get out of hands and the balance of what we've talked

[38:21] about we have the ability to reel you in so to speak so I'm comfortable with that

[38:25] with that I would offer a motion that we approve conditional use permit 21 or

[38:30] 23-01 permitting a luxury used car dealership

[38:34] 3528 combine Street with the identified changes that were brought forward

[38:39] tonight the whereas change the change to section two on findings and then the two

[38:44] conditions of approval adding number nine and number 10.

[38:49] I have a motion by commissioner code where is there a second second

[38:54] I have a second any further discussion

[38:59] seeing none I'll call the remote commissioner Kugler

[39:04] aye commissioner Marlow hi

[39:07] commissioner Conley aye

[39:10] Mr Christensen aye

[39:13] Mr covarrubias aye chairperson Neil

[39:18] aye motion passes 6-0 thank you very much thank you everybody

[39:24] and the next item on the agenda is um conditional use permit

[39:30] 22-20 P

[39:35] 22-0124 applicant John L Allen for the Loyal Order of Moose a request for a

[39:42] conditional use permit to establish a private meeting facility within an

[39:46] existing building at 6 35 28th Street thank you

[39:53] thank you chairperson Neil So the applicant did provide an additional

[39:57] piece of information that I'll pass out right now

[40:14] okay Katie banister associate planner again so as you said this is a new

[40:18] location for proposed for the Moose Lodge

[40:21] here is a map of the area this is on the North End of Spring Street you can see

[40:25] an orange towards the bottom right of your screen

[40:28] the current location of the Moose Lodge there is a mixed-use project that is

[40:33] proposed and is under construction there on that site at 26th in Spring and so

[40:39] the Moose needs to find a new location so they have located this building at

[40:44] 635 28th Street which is at the northwest corner of 28th and spring just

[40:48] a few blocks down the road so this project is in the Uptown Town

[40:54] Center specific plan it's in the t4f zoning District that's a mixed-use Zone

[40:59] the in that zone meeting facilities which is how staff is defining the Moose

[41:04] Lodge is a conditionally allowed use the building is about 4500 square feet in

[41:11] size parking for this use would be one parking space for every 400 square feet

[41:16] which would be 11 parking spaces here's a look at the site so in Orange

[41:21] is the building where the Moose would be located there is a a kitchen towards

[41:28] it's in the northwest corner of the building and that is proposed to be used

[41:32] as a separate use a sort of a commissary kitchen for caterers and so forth and

[41:38] we'll have some discussion about that the um as the slides progress but um and

[41:43] when we jump into conditions as well because there's a number of conditions

[41:46] related to having that separate use in the building

[41:50] the Moose Lodge does have two access points I've got them there in green

[41:54] there's sort of the main door which is at the bottom right and then there is a

[41:58] secondary egress towards the rear of the building there's a condition of approval

[42:03] that would require currently the Panic bar is not or at least a few weeks ago

[42:09] when the fire marshal and the building official and I visited the Panic bar was

[42:13] not fully functional and so that is a requirement before the Moose can get

[42:16] going that that um that that be repaired but there are two points of exit which

[42:20] is important for a an assembly use like this

[42:23] there is also an access point to that commissary kitchen currently it's a

[42:27] roll-up door which is not adequate egress for users of that kitchen so at

[42:32] the point in time when that kitchen is permitted a different type of door would

[42:37] need to be installed um we'll be discussing now you can see

[42:42] the little blue triangle excuse me Square in the bottom right hand corner

[42:45] there is an existing sign there on the site and Planning Commission will need

[42:49] to decide action on that sign um and then the whole

[42:54] um the I believe there's two properties but there's one owner for the property

[42:58] just to the north of this side it's the parking lot is oriented as if it's one

[43:02] large area so in purple there that is an auto repair use that's existing on the

[43:06] site so um the uh temporary Food Service

[43:13] which is what this food truck Court would be considered is a temporarily

[43:17] temporarily allowed use in the t4f zoning District so staff has approved a

[43:21] temporary use permit to allow a food truck court on this parking lot there's

[43:26] a lot of parking on this site there's actually 83 spaces on both properties

[43:30] both the the auto repair area and the restaurant site so a lot of parking

[43:34] spaces only 11 are required for the entire building where the moose and this

[43:40] commissary kitchen would be located the auto repair shop to the north needs five

[43:44] parking spaces 20 parking spaces would be covered by the food truck area and

[43:50] then if we pretended that those food trucks were in one enclosed building

[43:54] um which would be about 3 200 square feet that would require eight parking

[43:59] spaces so that leaves you with 39 spaces that are not required for any use that's

[44:06] proposed on site DRC was concerned about parking because there is a lot of uses

[44:10] being proposed on the site but just for information they there is adequate

[44:15] parking for what is required so that's what this slide is meant to to indicate

[44:22] so jumping into the floor plan I've rotated it so that North continues to be

[44:26] up I apologize for making it hard to read but you can see there

[44:30] um that there's the kitchen area that's not a part of the Moose Lodge lease so

[44:33] it's a separate area but within the Moose area there is a separate kitchen

[44:38] um and then they'll have pool tables and a bar area and so this is where the

[44:43] Moose will be operating as I said there are those two egress points in the Moose

[44:48] portion of the lease area and there's that kitchen area

[44:53] so here's a picture of the Moose Lodge kitchen area just for reference we've

[44:58] been working with the city Wastewater manager and the fire marshal to make

[45:03] sure that the operation of this kitchen is safe and meets all the health health

[45:08] department standards and so forth and the applicant is actively working both

[45:11] with with City staff and with the health department to make sure that they can

[45:15] meet all those codes so there is a bit of delayed maintenance

[45:20] on on the property it's um you know and not in its in its best state this was

[45:25] obviously Wilson's restaurant for many years and then the Paradise Grill

[45:28] operated here for about five years um

[45:32] here's some additional pictures the Landscaping is in need of a facelift the

[45:37] building itself and these are a few weeks ago I haven't been by in the last

[45:41] few days so I'm not sure if any painting has occurred but

[45:44] um you know we're still seeing remnants from the previous signage

[45:48] um a very bold stripe at the top a green and orange

[45:52] colors so there are conditions of approval that would require the building

[45:56] to be repainted in some sort of an Earth Tone palette

[46:00] um or more traditional for a commercial project

[46:04] this is from looking at from the alley looking towards the the Moose Lodge

[46:08] building and that auto repair use as well

[46:13] there is a sign at the corner of the property it's an unusual sign it's about

[46:18] six feet tall and the potato sign bases are approximately five feet by five feet

[46:22] so about 25 square feet on each side there are four sides to this sign which

[46:27] as I said is a bit unusual the applicant has provided some sort of options for

[46:32] how that sign might be reused staff is recommending that instead of refacing

[46:36] this sign um you know that this a monument sign is is certainly possible

[46:41] here but it needs to be a sign that complies with the Uptown Town Center

[46:44] specific plan and the sign ordinance so standards for that would be six foot

[46:49] maximum height but only 32 square feet in sign area when we look at any

[46:54] freestanding sign we don't if you know in a traditional freestanding sign you

[46:58] would have basically two sides you know like North and South whereas this one

[47:01] has the four sides um for a traditional side we if one side

[47:05] is 32 square feet we would not count the additional reverse side as sign area

[47:11] that would count as 32 square feet as I said what we're looking at is a sign

[47:15] with approximately 100 it's 25 square feet on each side which would be

[47:19] approximately you know we've got two times that it would be approximately 50

[47:24] square feet so the municipal code does not allow non-conforming sides to be

[47:28] altered to change the signed copy unless the sign is made to comply with the

[47:31] provisions of the sign ordinance in addition the sign ordinance also allows

[47:36] the Planning Commission to impose conditions to require than any existing

[47:40] incompatible or non-conforming signs be removed and brought into conformance so

[47:45] um the CR the the draft solution actually I omitted the the condition

[47:50] inadvertently so I've got a a slide to show you what would be proposed but

[47:55] staff is proposing that this sign be brought into conformance to be reduced

[47:59] in size and uh and possibly removed and replaced or

[48:04] redesigned depending on Planning Commission guidance and ultimately DRC

[48:09] guidance as well when we get a compliant sign proposed

[48:15] um as I said I showed in some of the previous sites the Landscaping is um

[48:19] needs an uplift and so we do have a landscape plan proposed

[48:23] um which would put new uh landscape plantings within all of the existing

[48:28] planter areas

[48:32] so jumping into the conditions of approval I've color-coded those that

[48:36] really pertain more to the Moose Lodge and then and those are the black colored

[48:40] conditions and then those in red that really have more to do with the

[48:45] potential for a commissary kitchen um and so the Moose they need to make

[48:49] sure they provide that proper egos as we discussed they need to repaint the

[48:52] building and install Landscaping any future signs for the Moose would need to

[48:57] go through DRC review we don't have any signs proposed for the Moose at this

[49:01] time looking at the potential for a commissary kitchen I think one of the

[49:07] most important things is that there is currently a temporary use permit for the

[49:12] um for the food truck court and um

[49:16] so that temporary use permit would need to be amended so a standalone commissary

[49:21] kitchen where there's not any sort of food service we would consider to be a

[49:24] food and Kindred products which is more of like a manufacturing type use that's

[49:29] not actually a use that's allowed in the t4f zoning district and so staff is

[49:32] recommending that the commissary kitchen be allowed as a part of that temporary

[49:37] use permit the Food Service portion would be the food trucks and the um the

[49:41] commissary kitchen would be to to support those food trucks and so the tup

[49:46] would need to be amended in order to account for that commissary kitchen and

[49:50] any signage that um that is proposed so that's condition number 11 and then

[49:55] there's a series of health and safety requirements for the um that commissary

[50:00] kitchen including a grease Interceptor Health Department kit um Department

[50:04] permits um the the

[50:07] applicant for the commissary kitchen will need to seek a building permit to

[50:11] provide adequate separation between the moose and that kitchen to make sure that

[50:15] if there was ever a fire in the um in the commissary kitchen it wouldn't

[50:19] spread to the Moose area the document that you were given this evening

[50:22] indicates that the the fire suppression systems for the two different kitchens

[50:26] are actually separate so it sounds like one of the conditions there um the kind

[50:30] of Part B on number nine is is already addressed so that it sounds like they

[50:34] already have separate fire suppression systems but the condition is there to

[50:37] make sure that our our fire marshal is able to confirm and make sure that those

[50:41] that separate fire suppression is is provided

[50:47] um staff is recommending to add two additional conditions related to the

[50:50] freestanding sign the first is that the precinct before the freestanding sign

[50:54] can be used it needs to be brought into conformance with the science standards

[50:57] and it would be subject to DRC review um the sign is actually

[51:02] um very close to being what's considered abandoned by the sign ordinance and if a

[51:06] sign is not used for 180 days it needs to be removed it's considered an

[51:11] abandoned sign so I've got the date there March 31st would be 180 days

[51:15] according to Social Media The Paradise Grill stopped operations on October the

[51:21] 2nd of last year which so 180 days would be March 31st so um the recommended

[51:28] condition would be that if we don't get an application to even consider bringing

[51:32] the sign into conformance um before night March 31st that sign

[51:36] would just need to be removed but based on that section of the code that you see

[51:41] there so um with all conditional use permits

[51:45] the Planning Commission has to make a series of findings in order to approve

[51:49] it um so basically you're looking to find

[51:51] that the um that the use is compatible with the neighborhood I checked in with

[51:55] our our Police Department to find out if they've had trouble with the Moose Lodge

[51:59] over the years they've been operating at their site on 26th Street for many years

[52:02] and the police department was very pleased to find that they would be

[52:06] replacing Paradise Grill which was a use that they had had some trouble with over

[52:10] the years so um the police department was very

[52:13] comfortable with the Moose coming to this location there are some residences

[52:17] that are just you know immediately adjacent to the site so um I thought

[52:21] that was a good sign that the police department was encouraged the Planning

[52:26] Commission has to make a series of findings though that basically that this

[52:29] project is compatible with the neighborhood that it's not detrimental

[52:32] to our efforts to revitalize our downtown and then that the pro the

[52:36] proposed land use is compatible with our plans and policies that we have adopted

[52:41] here in the city so staff uh the you also need to make a

[52:46] secret determination and that the recommended determination is that this

[52:50] is a Class one exemption from the California Environmental Quality act and

[52:53] that's included in your draft resolution so as always the Planning Commission has

[52:58] options the first would be to approve the draft resolution to approve that the

[53:03] conditional use permit you could modify and approve

[53:06] the resolution and and staff has provided some recommended modifications

[53:12] and then if the Planning Commission wants to deny the conditional use permit

[53:16] you would need to make findings of denial

[53:18] staff's recommendation is to approve the the

[53:22] um the project to approve the draft resolution as I said we do have a couple

[53:25] of amendments to to recommend but staff is recommending approval of the project

[53:30] I believe that is the end of my report thank you

[53:34] great thank you Katie um this time we usually open it up to the applicant for

[53:39] comments it says the applicant wish to come up and make comments if they do

[53:43] please state your name and address thank you

[53:50] hello

[53:53] um you just want an opening from um what I do have is excuse me name and

[53:58] address please pardon me oh I'm John Allen um

[54:01] I'm the administrator of the Moose Lodge so all right thank you one of the items

[54:06] was talked about is the grease um Spencer

[54:11] get my glasses I can't read my own notes Interceptor uh in in scepter we have

[54:18] ordered it I have the bill here um Brian and Patty from I think Water

[54:24] waste management came by on site Friday I believe it was

[54:29] um Brian was happy with what he saw I have a couple I have a few pictures if

[54:35] you're interested in seeing you with the three the three sinks and where that's

[54:39] going to be but if not Brian Brian's biggest concern was

[54:43] having the grease get moved away from the hot water and where we told him it

[54:49] was going to be he was fine with that and he said just go ahead and get it the

[54:55] triple grease is well known around here and and respected and Brian knew him and

[55:00] they do the kind of work they do so that should be in

[55:04] maybe by the end of this week

[55:12] anything else um

[55:18] well I was pleased um being a retired police officer from Arroyo Grande after

[55:23] 31 years and the moose was in that existing building or their established

[55:27] in 1980 that the police department had any nothing negative

[55:31] um the three years I've been an administrator I enforce any problems

[55:35] that we might have not only be to somebody maybe using foul language or

[55:38] something I can suspend their membership for a couple weeks and that hurts them

[55:41] more than maybe even get arrested so we we are we we police our own people and

[55:47] we don't we're not a rowdy crowd sometimes I explain when the Battalion

[55:51] the fire chief for Italian chief came over and talked about having two entries

[55:57] and exits and I said well most of our people if we had a fire that had to get

[56:01] their Wheelchairs and start moving themselves out so we have more of a

[56:04] senior crowd we're trying to get some youth in there but right now they're all

[56:09] about my age you know 35 40. so and and

[56:14] just a follow-up what are the typical hours of the the most

[56:19] um we open right now we and it's been the hours we're not going to change them

[56:22] we open at 11 A.M Monday through Saturday and we're scheduled to close at

[56:28] 8 but sometimes it's slow and they get out seven o'clock

[56:32] um and that but eight o'clock is our closing time and then if we do have like

[56:36] you know a New Year's Eve party I always use East Coast time so at nine o'clock

[56:42] is our 12 o'clock so we're you know we're not staying out till midnight

[56:45] causing you know loud noises and stuff um on Sundays we do um have breakfast so

[56:52] we open up at nine in the morning and we close at 7 pm

[56:57] great thank you with that I'll open it up to questions from the commission

[57:02] commissioner kogler a few questions of staff

[57:06] the food truck operation has that ever really operated

[57:14] as far as we are aware no it is not okay so it's permitted that it hasn't

[57:18] happened who owns is it the owner of the property that has the food truck

[57:21] operation or is it yet an independent operator the applicant for that to up

[57:25] was the owner of of the property okay and you've talked about adding in the

[57:31] sale of on-site food as part of the essentially food truck approved kind of

[57:36] merging those two food truck approval though was a staff was it not so would

[57:41] the addition of the on-site sale of food be a staff function or a Planning

[57:44] Commission function so

[57:48] license is for the Planning Commission so

[57:52] um when we we actually have received an application for this for the commissary

[57:56] kitchen which it would not include on its own sort of on-site sales but with

[58:01] the food truck Court there is that link where there would be you know on-site

[58:05] sales of food and so stats recommendation is that we would allow it

[58:08] because of the food court but it would need to be tied to the food truck court

[58:12] but you know that's an interpretation that we're making and certainly Planning

[58:16] Commission could weigh in on that okay um

[58:21] going to the freestanding sign or freestanding signs allowed in the

[58:26] district yes they are okay and up to what height

[58:28] six feet okay that's one and this one is at six feet if I remember the black I

[58:33] did not go out and measure it but it's approximately six feet I could certainly

[58:37] um but there's no record that that was ever

[58:40] permitted or approved I could not find a record

[58:45] aerial photographs and and

[58:48] always there but those don't go back far enough to really

[58:52] say but I could not find a building permit nor a planning entitlement for it

[58:57] okay and the conditions of the approval that's been already put forward by staff

[59:01] for the food truck operation only allows food trucks to be there during the time

[59:05] of service is that correct or not to be parked on site I believe that's correct

[59:09] correct okay there is as your conditions slide showed one either dead food truck

[59:14] or food truck wannabe I'm not sure which parked on the site right now I showed up

[59:18] in your one photo and so I take it that would be cleared away so there is a

[59:23] future

[59:28] single food truck I believe they have a business license to operate there kind

[59:33] of independently from the rest of it I don't know I believe the owners here

[59:36] this evening and could comment on whether or not that food truck will

[59:40] remain once the food truck court gets going okay it would appear to be on the

[59:44] Moose site if I'm interpreting where the lines are okay that's all I have for

[59:47] right now thank you commissioner cover rubies thank you sir

[59:53] so Katie just clarity we are here approving the condition use

[59:58] permit for the Moose Lodge sounds like the food court portion of this has

[1:00:03] already been approved by staff that is correct so the way the design of

[1:00:07] the food court the layout all of that stuff has all been handled already

[1:00:12] correct yeah it's been approved as it's shown in your

[1:00:16] as it's shown okay in the report it mentions a lot about

[1:00:21] deferred maintenance was there a building inspection done do you know

[1:00:26] um the building official has been on the site and there are conditions of

[1:00:29] approval that would require certain things to be permitted but most of the

[1:00:33] Deferred maintenance that I'm referring to is is more cosmetic to the outside of

[1:00:36] the building yeah I remember the building well Wilson's restaurant for

[1:00:40] gosh 30 plus years probably not longer yeah yeah I'm glad to see something's

[1:00:46] going to go in there finally hopefully that's permanent in the long term

[1:00:50] um okay um

[1:00:53] commissioner kobler already addressed my sign question let me make sure there's

[1:00:56] nothing else you know what I'll pass it on to other questions until I finish

[1:00:59] reading my other stuff commissioner Christensen

[1:01:05] uh just a couple clarification questions Katie uh building signage we talked

[1:01:11] about the sign out by the street is there building signage and

[1:01:15] um is there certain lighting requirements for that for that type of

[1:01:18] zone so the the Moose has not um propells at this

[1:01:24] this choir at that point in time when they do want to put up signage they

[1:01:28] would have to come for DRC review okay um

[1:01:33] commissary kitchen that's not necessarily are we approving that

[1:01:37] tonight I mean the the concept of that space I guess I'm a little confused on

[1:01:41] that part of it no

[1:01:47] no operate safely safely so we're allowing the moose and we're saying the

[1:01:52] Moose can operate here but if somebody wants to go in this kitchen in the

[1:01:55] future they've got to do these things to keep the Moose safe okay I mean I like

[1:01:59] both so um and and when I was looking at the

[1:02:02] parking uh number diagram so the Moose Lodge has in their lease access to all

[1:02:08] that parking that's left over from the food court other than say five for the

[1:02:12] automotive repair yes and we do have an email it's one of the attachments to

[1:02:16] your staff report that you know when the auto repair is not in use or the spaces

[1:02:20] that the auto repair doesn't use um they you know the Moose can use the

[1:02:23] spaces that are over there near the auto repair okay

[1:02:27] um I think that's the only questions I have at this moment

[1:02:31] commissioner Conley uh yeah similar to Christians and

[1:02:35] commissioner Christians and I was I was a little confused about the kitchen is

[1:02:38] the kitchen going to be used by both the foods court and

[1:02:42] and the Moose Lodge so I have dual usage no there's actually two kitchens

[1:02:52] they would order stuff and then there was more of an involved kitchen towards

[1:02:55] the rear and so the Moose will have their own kitchen that was the picture

[1:02:58] we saw with the orange the vibrant orange tiles that's the kitchen that the

[1:03:03] Moose will use there is a separate kitchen that needs to be more officially

[1:03:07] separated off but it would be used as a commissary kitchen for for food trucks

[1:03:12] and Caterers so my concern is would there be a conflict abuse in that space

[1:03:18] and I guess with two separate kitchens as

[1:03:22] long as that's as long as everyone knows their

[1:03:25] boundaries that there wouldn't be a conflict

[1:03:28] between the two so there is a requirement recognition of approval that

[1:03:31] will requires that the spaces spaces be given proper separation to

[1:03:35] make sure there's no like fire spread and so and so forth but as far as I'm

[1:03:39] understanding the the owner intends to to lease them as two separately spaces

[1:03:44] two separate tenant spaces yeah and the conditions would require that that

[1:03:47] occurs in a safe manner thank you yeah

[1:03:51] um so with that separation of space is that wall there fire rated or is there

[1:03:57] plans to make the separation between the kitchen spaces fire rated so at this

[1:04:02] point in time my understanding is it is not fire rated so the condition of

[1:04:05] approval is that before commissary kitchen can operate there they um you

[1:04:09] know they're not going to be able to get health department clearance building

[1:04:12] department you know there's there's they need to work with the building

[1:04:14] department to determine what the appropriate separation is and so our

[1:04:17] building department um will help to to you know make that

[1:04:21] those requirements I suspect it would require a fire rated wall but I don't

[1:04:25] know what all the the um the building official will ensure that the the code

[1:04:29] requirements are are enforced sure and then how much cooking is the the Moose

[1:04:36] organization going to be doing in there and what are you cooking and how many

[1:04:40] people are you cooking for and do you sell the food like what's the what's the

[1:04:44] plan for the kitchen I guess I should have prepared more for an opening

[1:04:47] statement this first time I've ever been to a Planning Commission so me too I can

[1:04:51] just back up a little bit we're we're a prize got it

[1:04:56] um we're a private fraternity and so to be to get into the building you have to

[1:05:01] have a card and swipe it and then the door will buzz open

[1:05:05] um to leave you just hit the bar just like you know the bar at the door and

[1:05:09] you can you can get out just like any door

[1:05:11] um the kitchen is pretty limited in our use because on Sundays we do breakfast

[1:05:17] so I'll say for sure on Sundays we do it and then dinners are just kind of Hit

[1:05:21] and Miss if somebody wants to volunteer to do a Friday night Thursday night or

[1:05:26] whatever you know like something we were doing a taco Tuesdays and hamburger

[1:05:29] Wednesdays or whatever but um but it's just limited to the membership and

[1:05:35] probably uh on a average night we sell 20 meals

[1:05:40] so 20 hamburgers 20 tacos something like that so it's not a high volume and

[1:05:44] everything is all the stuff is countertop they're all we've bought

[1:05:48] brand new stuff and um so separating that kitchen in our kitchen

[1:05:54] is night and day yeah yeah and and it's volunteers that cook yes okay great and

[1:06:00] then uh with the signage the site signage I guess this would be for staff

[1:06:05] is is it currently lit and are there requirements for lighting out out on a

[1:06:11] sign out like that my understanding is that it is not

[1:06:15] currently lit although there is it looks like some sort of conduit that goes up

[1:06:18] down the middle so it's possible there's electricity out there signs are not

[1:06:22] required to be lit but but um there are um you can light them the the specific

[1:06:27] plan prefers external elimination like a bulb shining on the sign instead of like

[1:06:32] a um like a hand sign or something like that so this what you're seeing here is

[1:06:36] just the the I don't even know what to call it I it's like the remnants like

[1:06:41] almost like the dirt that was behind the sign it's not this I'm not even sure

[1:06:44] that that's paint it might be but um that's left over from from Paradise

[1:06:48] Grill and I think even from Wilson's understood and then um with the

[1:06:53] irrigation upgrade or the Landscaping upgrade uh are there irrigation upgrades

[1:06:58] going to be going with that do do you guys plan on doing excavation and

[1:07:02] trenching through the site to accommodate upgraded irrigation system

[1:07:06] so I was informed that there is irrigation or you know lines leading to

[1:07:10] enchanters and so yeah so you need to install you know in

[1:07:13] meters and more irrigation equipment but I don't believe it's going to require

[1:07:18] trenching okay and then does does your organization do you guys do outdoor

[1:07:24] activities are you planning on being outside obviously it sounds like a lot

[1:07:27] of people are leaving way early in the evening so yeah just

[1:07:31] um the three years I've been administrating we haven't done anything

[1:07:34] outside but in past years I've heard they've had a few things where we you

[1:07:39] know get a a one day permit um but I don't know all the ins and outs

[1:07:44] and that but right now there's no plans I'm just trying to get in there and

[1:07:48] start making some money so I can pay that guy back there so yeah I just got a

[1:07:53] two more if the sign is removed because it is abandoned

[1:07:57] what's the requirement for them to put it back in or

[1:08:01] so my understanding is the owner would like to use that to advertise the food

[1:08:05] truck Court Just for information it wouldn't be used for the Moose but if

[1:08:08] they wanted to um to uh

[1:08:11] yeah to put in the sign they would need to first get approval from the

[1:08:15] development Review Committee which is of course the subcommittee of the Planning

[1:08:18] Commission and then they would need a building permit for that yeah and but if

[1:08:21] it got abandoned they would just have to go through that again

[1:08:24] right they would need to remove this sign and then they could start over it

[1:08:27] with a more compliant sign great and the only last one is how long were you guys

[1:08:31] in the last location now uh what was the question how long

[1:08:35] were you in the last location um

[1:08:39] in 1980 they were right across the street but then shortly thereafter they

[1:08:42] moved over so 81-82 cool and and on science I told Katie we really don't

[1:08:48] plan on a sign right now because we're not really advertising for the public to

[1:08:53] come in and anybody that gets on the on the Moose site they can see where the

[1:08:58] address is and then they show up yeah great thank you that's all I had

[1:09:05] any additional questions with that this is a public comment I

[1:09:09] will open it up for public comment is there anybody that would like to speak

[1:09:13] to this item

[1:09:17] Marcy anybody online no callers seeing that I will close public comment

[1:09:22] and bring it back to the commission for further discussion and or a motion

[1:09:28] commissioner um on the discussion front I guess I was

[1:09:32] on the DRC when this was reviewed and I do support the use at this site I think

[1:09:36] it makes a lot of sense there were a number of details that we talked about

[1:09:38] at DRC many of which are addressed tonight or have been addressed I think

[1:09:44] I'm satisfied with those descriptions and explanations to how the business

[1:09:48] will be run so I think it works and I I certainly support bringing the sign into

[1:09:52] compliance

[1:09:56] commissioner Cooper rubies no I'll let go that I think that again

[1:10:00] that building's been there forever and it needs a lot of TLC

[1:10:06] um to get it to get it more respectable and looking good and I'm happy to hear

[1:10:10] uh somebody's gonna occupy it and take care of it little surprise and I get the

[1:10:14] theory why you're not going to put a sign on there

[1:10:16] um I get it it's not a not intended for public uh use it's more of a membership

[1:10:22] based use I've been in the Moose Lodge a couple times as a guest

[1:10:26] um just and so I'm just happy to hear that um this this building's finally

[1:10:30] going to be used for something I hopefully long term so I would be in

[1:10:34] complete support commissioner Christensen

[1:10:39] yeah I would Echo the comments of the other Commissioners I'm also happy about

[1:10:42] the commissary kitchen I think that there is a large use for that in our

[1:10:46] town so I think that you'll that will be a benefit to have that ability and I I'm

[1:10:51] glad that the Moose Lodge has found a new home so thank you

[1:10:57] commissioner Conley yeah I think this is a good use I would

[1:11:02] support it um with regard to the sign it seems to

[1:11:05] me that the Moose Lodge isn't interested in the sign if it becomes abandoned then

[1:11:10] it seems like the food court is or the food trucks would be the interested

[1:11:15] party and it would be them that would come forward with a sign propose what a

[1:11:20] future day so if I I would support this

[1:11:26] commissioner Marlon yep I I support this it's be nice to get someone in there

[1:11:32] so with all that support is there a motion this evening sure

[1:11:35] uh I would make a motion I would make move the Planning Commission approve

[1:11:39] conditional use permit 22-20 permitting private meeting facility 635 28th Street

[1:11:45] with the additions of conditions 15 and 16 that were outlined by staff

[1:11:52] I have a motion there's no second then I have a motion by commissioner kogler

[1:11:58] in a second by commissioner Christensen any further comment

[1:12:04] roll call please commissioner kogler aye commissioner Christensen aye Mr Connolly

[1:12:10] aye commissioner Marlow aye commissioner cover rubius aye chairperson Neal

[1:12:15] aye motion passes 6-0

[1:12:20] for the next item um I work for the general contractor

[1:12:23] that is working with the um Hope Family wines to build this project

[1:12:28] so I will have to step down from this project and put to work our newly minted

[1:12:34] Vice chair so don't forget to come get me why thank you so much

[1:12:43] okay well I guess we'll uh we'll hear the presentation from staff

[1:12:56] yes Mr chairman members of the commission this is the Triana Winery

[1:13:01] Expansion Project uh it's at 42 82nd winway so this is out

[1:13:07] uh on Dry Creek Road off of Dry Creek Road so this would be east of Airport

[1:13:13] Road at Dry Creek Road and North side of Dry Creek Second Wind way is a street

[1:13:18] off of that looking at the location map on the screen so this is second one way

[1:13:24] it's kind of the entrance to this existing facility here

[1:13:30] and what we're talking about tonight is an expansion of the Triana Winery

[1:13:36] project which would then go out into this area here so that's kind of the

[1:13:41] project Site Area that we're looking at this evening

[1:13:47] so this is a tracked map that uh kind of re-oriented and subdivided a few

[1:13:54] additional Parcels out that the city was involved with at the airport these are

[1:13:58] airport lease sites so Triana Winery leases has a long-term lease with the uh

[1:14:05] with the airport with the city through the airport of these properties so

[1:14:09] they've expanded their lease to get additional properties to accommodate

[1:14:15] this expansion area

[1:14:20] in this photo here you can kind of see where this says Cirrus Lane this was the

[1:14:25] previous alignment of a paper Street not built with the the new tracked map that

[1:14:33] portion was abandoned and then Wing or right way is what is the new Street with

[1:14:39] the cul-de-sac that will be constructed by the city uh I believe that that is

[1:14:46] happening fairly soon with the construction of that road would happen

[1:14:49] so this property would be along Dry Creek Road in an a long right way

[1:14:57] and then just the site plan here's the existing facility there's some existing

[1:15:03] tanks here but then this new facility happens on these gray and dark area

[1:15:08] buildings

[1:15:12] this is more of a specific site plan for the expansion area

[1:15:20] so this building here on the right is the case goods building and some

[1:15:27] Administration area the building in the center here is where the bottling or I'm

[1:15:33] sorry the uh Barrel storage is law as well as additional Bearer storage and I

[1:15:40] believe there's a bottling component in this area here

[1:15:48] this is a landscape plan for the project the photo above kind of shows the

[1:15:54] existing landscaping that's been done along Dry Creek Road the intent is that

[1:16:00] that Landscaping palette would continue

[1:16:04] across Dry Creek Road and then turn up in the long right way here and then

[1:16:11] provide the landscape set back along with the parking lot trees I believe the

[1:16:17] at the at the DRC meeting Mr hope indicated that they were doing some work

[1:16:23] to that existing landscape area and had some other ideas for what was happening

[1:16:28] so maybe we can have him explain and provide us of what they've been working

[1:16:33] on and what uh if there's any changes proposed from this plan here

[1:16:41] there's another picture of that area

[1:16:46] conditions of approval has been added to make sure that the landscape comes all

[1:16:51] the way down and is planted all the way down to the edge of the curb along here

[1:16:54] so that's a condition of approval that was added

[1:16:58] the other condition related to Landscaping that was added was uh

[1:17:03] to a landscape across the back the zoning ordinance requires Frontage

[1:17:10] Landscaping along streets but also a minimum of three feet landscape along

[1:17:14] the interior edges so that's proposed as well

[1:17:22] this we've been working the planning Department's been working with uh

[1:17:27] with the Hope Family quite some time on this project uh early on there were some

[1:17:33] discussions of some much taller buildings this this area of the city is

[1:17:38] in the airport Zone we don't have specific development standards in the

[1:17:44] airport Zone that say here's the max height or here's the

[1:17:48] specific requirement for setbacks or those kind of things we typically

[1:17:54] use whether it's the C3 zone or the planned industrial Zone as a you know

[1:18:02] kind of a feeler gauge for the the standards that we would do in the

[1:18:07] airport Zone

[1:18:10] what we worked with the applicants on was coming up with a 58-foot ridge

[1:18:14] height so the maximum height is 58 feet as it comes down to the edges it's it's

[1:18:19] shorter than that uh 50 feet is the max height in the planned industrial Zone

[1:18:27] the PM Zone which is uh the wisteria and Germain those types of streets or in the

[1:18:33] C3 zone is 50 foot is the max 58 feet here is being proposed it seems

[1:18:39] reasonable for this area and it as I mentioned the airport Zone would allow

[1:18:45] up to 58 feet here

[1:18:49] here's some exterior elevations again staff work to get with the applicants

[1:18:55] with the pulse and Associates to uh to come up with these elevations I think

[1:19:01] some of the colors some of the windows are even added since it was at DRC

[1:19:07] the last time but in but in general coming up with these improvements to

[1:19:12] these facade areas helped out and staff is able to to recommend and support this

[1:19:20] elevations on these proposed buildings

[1:19:28] colors and materials The Core 10 the metal

[1:19:32] is what's being proposed the paint colors are shown here

[1:19:38] I think the applicant along with the the architect can kind of get into that a

[1:19:43] little more on on their discussion uh here's some prospective views just

[1:19:49] kind of showing that that interior that interior travel way there the the

[1:19:55] circulation around the site

[1:19:59] and these are looking if you're standing in Dry Creek Road kind of looking toward

[1:20:04] the East for the project for this picture on the left and then if you were

[1:20:09] standing on the east side of the project looking back towards the West this is

[1:20:13] that uh West corner there or the east corner there

[1:20:21] you require a mitigated negative declaration that was circulated for this

[1:20:25] project we did receive three letters from

[1:20:30] agencies as part of that circulation of the the mitigated negative declaration

[1:20:36] one letter was from the slow County Air Pollution Control District this project

[1:20:42] had an air quality study and there were some questions related to

[1:20:48] that study and some of the information within there

[1:20:52] uh when I got the Air Pollution Control District letter I provided it to the

[1:20:57] Triana air quality consultant who was able to answer the questions by the Air

[1:21:03] Pollution Control District we sent that letter back to them but there was no

[1:21:08] proposal for any additional or changes to any of the mitigation measures

[1:21:14] we received a the second letter we received was from the Department of

[1:21:17] Conservation this was more of just a report that they checked the site for

[1:21:21] any abandoned oil or gas Wells that's what they look for and the letter

[1:21:27] indicated that there was none found in the project area but that's the letter

[1:21:31] we received there was no additional information required as a

[1:21:37] result of that letter and then

[1:21:40] about 10 minutes prior to the meeting we received the letter from Caltrans and if

[1:21:46] you recall we did quite a bit of work on the uh Stravinsky and DOW project and

[1:21:52] the traffic study that was done there and along with uh you know this project

[1:21:57] was being reviewed at the same time so all those uh impacts on Airport Road on

[1:22:04] Dry Creek all of those were looked at with both that Stravinsky Dow project

[1:22:08] but also this project so we were able to narrow down and work with Caltrans on

[1:22:14] the mitigation measures for the Stravinsky Dow project which we were

[1:22:18] then able to apply to this project so that Airport Road and the the

[1:22:26] right turns only and cutting off the left turns going eastbound on Highway 46

[1:22:33] from airport road is uh the same mitigation that was required for this

[1:22:38] project and the Caltrans letter just verified that they had no other

[1:22:43] proposals for changes or any different concerns with this project

[1:22:48] foreign so before you this evening is is the

[1:22:53] options the first option is to prove the mitigated negative declaration to

[1:22:59] approve the development plan allowing the expansion of the project or option

[1:23:04] two could be recommend approval of the project with some modifications that the

[1:23:09] Planning Commission may come up with or three is to refer the project back to

[1:23:13] staff for additional analysis or four is to not deny the project giving specific

[1:23:19] findings on reasons for denial and with that I'd be happy to answer any

[1:23:25] questions okay uh let's start with commissioner

[1:23:30] Marlow do you have any questions for staff or the well you know what let's do

[1:23:33] this um does the applicant want to come up

[1:23:36] and talk first maybe that's probably the better thing to do apologize

[1:23:39] commissioner come on up and and give us your

[1:23:43] commentary uh can you announce who you are yes thank you so I'm Austin hope

[1:23:48] president of Hope Family wines and as we're speaking about Triana

[1:23:53] first off I want to thank the city staff they've been very helpful in helping us

[1:23:59] navigate the waters is obviously a large large project large Edition and uh

[1:24:04] they have been supporters of us and and have

[1:24:08] helped us navigate the water which is very very appreciative and I appreciate

[1:24:11] the the commission as well because there's been obviously this has been

[1:24:15] back and forth a few different times and everybody's kind of got a piece of it

[1:24:18] and and helped uh mysterious in the right direction and uh

[1:24:22] what's possible and what's not possible so anyways

[1:24:26] um first off is pretty wild this is uh my

[1:24:31] family's been here since 1978 and you know we we never dreamed that we'd have

[1:24:37] success and have so many families working with us

[1:24:41] and and growing and and see this community Thrive like it is it's it's

[1:24:45] just uh it's a blessing for everybody quite honestly and

[1:24:49] um we're thrilled about it so the main the main reason for this is uh you know

[1:24:53] we've been a we've been attendant of the cities for 27 years out there and it

[1:24:57] added on as we've gone along and this one really is to

[1:25:01] bring back everything that we've we've accomplished and that have done over the

[1:25:05] years back to Paso

[1:25:08] um we've grown and you know we haven't had money to do things we've had to

[1:25:12] Outsource and over the years and and this one really is just to bring

[1:25:15] everything back home so currently uh we ship a lot of wine out of the area that

[1:25:21] goes to another facility up north and it's bottled up there shipped from

[1:25:26] there so this is really we're we're very serious about our quality of how we do

[1:25:32] things and it's bothered us for the years of being able to ship things off

[1:25:35] and we're flying to a point where we're ready to take the region and and

[1:25:39] and and and go for this this size to be able to bring everything home so that's

[1:25:44] that's the big thing is if for us it's bringing everything home

[1:25:47] um with that said that it's a positive not only for us for our community but

[1:25:52] for for infrastructure we you know send a tremendous amount of

[1:25:58] trucks that's wear and tear on the highways and and traffic and all that so

[1:26:02] this keeps it all in one spot so we can bottle all our wine there we can

[1:26:06] distribute from there rather than having to go up and back up and back and and

[1:26:10] multiple times so it's really it's a I think it's a win-win for everybody

[1:26:13] honestly and I think it's going to help help with traffic too within that

[1:26:18] particular area and you know being pushed into having to put what they call

[1:26:23] a pork chop which I never knew what type of pork chop was until until I learned

[1:26:27] it said can't turn left so that was uh that was a new word for me but uh I'm

[1:26:32] actually very pleased with that because it is very dangerous uh that that

[1:26:36] left-hand touring Lane so I think it's a positive thing that Caltrans and the

[1:26:39] city have worked on to bring that back to us and we're more than happy to

[1:26:43] to get that going in the works um you know outside of that I think it's

[1:26:47] uh we'll leave it to you guys but you know I think it's a we're in a wonderful

[1:26:51] place Castle's grown and it's uh we're a fairly good sized company that

[1:26:56] uh employs people all over the country in the world we're in uh 30 30 countries

[1:27:01] now and been spreading the Passover message and so it's just it's exciting

[1:27:04] to be part of the community we love this area and you know we've been here our

[1:27:07] whole lives and want to continue to grow it and

[1:27:10] in the right way and and call this home so welcome any questions and I've got JC

[1:27:16] which our director of wine making with us if you've got questions in regards to

[1:27:20] any of those types of things then we've got Andres from

[1:27:22] Polson associate which is doing our architect and so with that we'll put it

[1:27:27] back to you guys the whole landscape I'm sorry I will touch on landscape but some

[1:27:31] people know me some people don't but I'm a landscape freak so we've uh since that

[1:27:35] last photo you've seen I've already put in uh like 145 different trees more

[1:27:39] trees that you'll you'll see once we start spring gets going and so you can

[1:27:44] rest assured you don't have to worry about landscape I'm I'm goofy about

[1:27:47] landscape I I overdo landscape so that's uh and we are the uh where Darren

[1:27:53] pointed out that we'd already talked about bringing it down to the road

[1:27:55] that's in the words uh we're ordering all the plants we finally picked those

[1:27:59] out so those will come right down probably like three foot off the off the

[1:28:03] road the minimum is there and we just got another shipment of trees the other

[1:28:08] day so it's gonna be it'll be pretty it'll be overdone uh way past the

[1:28:12] expectations of of what you might ask and uh

[1:28:17] yeah they miss anything

[1:28:24] oh in the existing build as you did see uh you saw our new renderings with a

[1:28:30] the different uh uh architectural design so we're going

[1:28:34] to bring that all the way around so if you go back a couple slides but do they

[1:28:38] have a picture of the existing on there I can't remember

[1:28:42] I don't think it'd be there but if you've been out there before they're

[1:28:46] just they're they're still buildings there's there's nothing other than the

[1:28:49] landscape around it so we're gonna take these type of same things and put it to

[1:28:55] the existing building so it ties together and it kind of beautifies the

[1:28:57] whole neighborhood if you will

[1:29:00] so maybe that's just kind of the things we do I mean right it's a visually

[1:29:05] architecturally I love those types of things so we want

[1:29:08] we're proud of this place and we're proud of where we live and proud of

[1:29:11] where we we make wine so we want to we want it to look well all right thank you

[1:29:17] um okay let's go to uh questions from Commissioners Dr Mr Marla yeah I just

[1:29:23] just a couple uh I'm being an aviator there Airport Community is really

[1:29:27] important to me and and I like to see that fact that you're going to bring up

[1:29:32] you know something like this I guess my question is with the museum down the

[1:29:37] road and the estimated you know 380 new vehicle trips like is there a consider I

[1:29:43] mean obviously caltransit a study but do we feel that there's going to be an

[1:29:47] impact to the museum down there or I mean it might be an impact in a good way

[1:29:51] I just uh without getting too far into it has that been looked at or for the

[1:29:56] traffic for the museum down there I'll let JCS for that so yeah we have

[1:30:01] been talking with them on the traffic study and a lot of it uh that was kind

[1:30:06] of posted on what they felt was the the traffic so a lot of this is as Austin

[1:30:11] alluded to before we talked about the vehicles in and out so right now we're

[1:30:15] larger than what we are there so we have to send wine out to store bring it back

[1:30:20] for process send it out again for bottling so what we'll do now is we'll

[1:30:23] bring in the grapes everything stays there for a year and a half two years

[1:30:26] prior to it being finished and shipped out so we're eliminating basically three

[1:30:31] of the truck trips to to do the one trip at the end okay

[1:30:35] um and so in a lot of our staffing so this helps us uh put in a lot more as

[1:30:42] you see the height of the buildings there's a reason for that we're bringing

[1:30:45] in safety to put in a racking system so it's earthquake safety it's safety for

[1:30:50] our personnel and it also brings in uh that we don't have to have so many

[1:30:55] people there to move all the barrels so we're bringing in automation to help

[1:30:59] stack them uh it works with the case goods as well so being a case system

[1:31:04] that will stop there to bring more automation so right now we have roughly

[1:31:08] 41 employees there uh when we're finished it'll be around 39.

[1:31:13] um so a lot of that it's going to be using

[1:31:16] this different equipment so in terms of uh the area we should have less vehicle

[1:31:23] traffic uh than a lot of those things um as the size grows it's going to be

[1:31:29] you know you're going to have more because of more case goods but it's

[1:31:32] going to be a minimal amount uh in the difference so they don't foresee any

[1:31:36] impact in terms of them we do not do uh tastings or wine cells out of the site

[1:31:47] gonna be a minimum so if a distributor that comes to town

[1:31:51] um but it wouldn't be anything that you'd see it'd be maybe one or two a

[1:31:54] month at the most but it's not uh Public tours so it's only a Private Industry

[1:32:00] yeah the only other question I have is when you guys plan on breaking ground

[1:32:04] and what's the anticipated duration of the project

[1:32:07] uh so the phase one portion uh would be breaking ground by hopefully

[1:32:15] by mid-april um and anticipation would be uh 300 to

[1:32:22] 400 Days okay and it's so it's phased and what phase two would be the

[1:32:26] renovations of the existing buildings or no that would be starting now okay phase

[1:32:31] one would be the case room and the uh covering on the existing uh take pad

[1:32:37] okay great thanks

[1:32:43] commissioner Conley questions for staff or the applicant

[1:32:46] yeah thank you um with regards to the mitigation

[1:32:50] measures uh there is a mention about uh they're set forth in the uh

[1:32:57] mitigation monitoring and Reporting plan is that included in this package

[1:33:03] mitigation measures for I'm sorry I didn't hardly hear what your question

[1:33:07] was well uh the draft resolution speaks of

[1:33:12] mitigation measures and uh just wanted to know it says there

[1:33:19] imposed on the project through the adoption of a mitigation monitoring and

[1:33:24] Reporting plan so yes that's part of that resolution a

[1:33:28] for the Medicaid negative declaration the mitigation and monitoring plan is

[1:33:33] attached to that resolution and uh

[1:33:39] so that's in here with regard to traffic impacts and then secondarily all of

[1:33:45] those mitigation measures are also then put in the conditions of approval so

[1:33:51] they're twice they're in both resolutions so I assume that uh that's

[1:33:56] part of the overall project to bring Airport Road over Crossing in and all of

[1:34:02] all of the master plans for circulation area element of this area or correct so

[1:34:09] the the traffic consultant uh

[1:34:14] Central Coast traffic Consultants Joe Fernandez and his

[1:34:20] company are is the only traffic consultant the

[1:34:23] city has but they've looked a lot in this airport area in this Highway 46

[1:34:30] East Corridor on ways regionally and for this part of the city to look at

[1:34:37] different ways to to help with the traffic because we know that Highway 46

[1:34:41] and trying to get uh intersections and things there are not the best so I don't

[1:34:46] know if there's enough impact here for them to contribute to that towards that

[1:34:50] that was kind of my question with the increase in size and maybe increase in

[1:34:55] vehicle traffic so they're they're going to be responsible for the the right turn

[1:35:00] along with uh some of the other projects but they'll also pay traffic impact fees

[1:35:05] that will ultimately that will ultimately work towards future bigger

[1:35:10] projects

[1:35:13] pretty much answers my question there but uh just out of curiosity how many

[1:35:18] jobs will this uh

[1:35:23] um we're growing all the time I mean it's uh we hired two people yesterday

[1:35:28] it's it's it continues I mean I can't give you a real number but we're not

[1:35:32] we're not uh we're not shy on hiring people so this is this is a good thing

[1:35:36] if it brings uh employment within this yes yes no we're not we're not uh

[1:35:41] looking to be less less employees we're looking to grow the community is there

[1:35:46] uh is the access hat or is there access at Jardine Road for this project I know

[1:35:52] it's kind of equal distance between airport Jardine do you see any

[1:35:57] operations using Jardine entrance uh Jardine entrance no they are potentially

[1:36:04] going leaving to get 46. yeah but uh I don't see him using Jardine no okay I

[1:36:10] mean the only thing that would be on Jardine would be if there's a Vineyard

[1:36:13] out there that brings in grapes but well no I don't see any additional

[1:36:18] and uh now I've noticed there's a uh drainage

[1:36:24] foreign

[1:36:28] expanding of some retention basins as a result of the drainage proposal

[1:36:34] is there going to be Landscaping within that those basins or just um we

[1:36:40] certainly could put some trees around it but it's definitely it's on the interior

[1:36:43] side so it's not exposed to anything it would be on the you know the airport

[1:36:49] taxiways that side so it wasn't brought up but again I love Landscapes I mean

[1:36:54] yeah well yeah to the extent that it still functions yeah that'd be great

[1:36:59] yeah okay that's it thank you okay

[1:37:03] commissioner kogler yes thank you I have a couple of

[1:37:07] questions for David Athie city engineer I know he was eager to get up there a

[1:37:11] minute ago um first of those being the tdmp plan is

[1:37:16] that approved by staff uh the travel demand yes David athy city

[1:37:22] engineer the travel the van management plan is approved by staff uh it has to

[1:37:28] meet the conditions that are in the for the project which are the hours of

[1:37:32] operation and using uh Airport Road you know are two of the different

[1:37:38] conditions in there right and that was what kind of prompted the question that

[1:37:42] it is that the edict is you use Airport Road how does that TD I used to call him

[1:37:47] tmps tdmp get translated down stream to the truck drivers and everybody else so

[1:37:53] that they know what the rules of the game are that's a great question I think

[1:37:57] I let the applicant um answer that how they interact with their drivers and

[1:38:02] contracts and stuff yeah

[1:38:07] so our shipping's by appointment only and so I think that's part of the

[1:38:10] question is is when we're shipping out um and the time of use

[1:38:16] but all our shippings uh by appointments so that's where we talked about

[1:38:19] minimizing those during those times of use

[1:38:23] um also majority of all our shipment goes north so a lot of it doesn't even

[1:38:27] go down the highway um it'll go directly north on Airport

[1:38:32] Road and go back to 101 through the San Miguel area

[1:38:38] okay thank you uh David the

[1:38:43] there's a discussion in the traffic report about the extension of the

[1:38:48] acceleration Lane and there are some numbers in there 625 feet I think was

[1:38:53] recommended or is the existing perhaps for the Airport Road intersection with

[1:38:59] 46. there's commentary about expanding that between 960 to 1200 feet depending

[1:39:04] on the desired speed to get the trucks to integrate in with traffic there's

[1:39:08] reference in here to extension of that but it doesn't Peg that to a number how

[1:39:12] long will that extension that's going to be added be when it's complete

[1:39:16] so that that actually uh

[1:39:21] bad idea or that potential mitigation is not

[1:39:26] favored by Caltrans uh in the most recent letter with

[1:39:29] Stravinsky Dao and now with Triana uh their preferred alternative is the world

[1:39:36] bridge for getting folks to Golden Hill Road in the interim

[1:39:41] they'd prefer that the left out so the southbound left to eastbound 46 be

[1:39:48] closed and that traffic be sent to Golden Hill

[1:39:53] Road passenger type Vehicles so pickup trucks and cars would do a u-turn at

[1:39:59] Golden Hill which is currently allowed uh larger Vehicles would go up through

[1:40:03] the city uh to the Golden Hill round about and either down Union Road or back

[1:40:08] to Golden Hill that's the interim condition until on the where aware of

[1:40:13] bridge is built um

[1:40:16] you know we the the uh the conditions are set up so that that traffic itself

[1:40:22] won't be on either City surface streets or Highway 46 at peak hours

[1:40:29] uh so that traffic won't be interfering with local city traffic uh and which is

[1:40:35] also part of the tdmp why it's important that these things all be tied together

[1:40:38] so the the left the acceleration Lane has been abandoned that that solution is

[1:40:44] not favored by Caltrans and so what what we've conditioned the project to do is

[1:40:49] comply with what the recommendations are from Caltrans okay which is part of

[1:40:54] which is number two in the three different options which is uh you know

[1:40:59] do a u-turn on 46. and refresh my memory when will we attend the ribbon cutting

[1:41:04] for the world bridge I I hope as soon as possible uh it's currently under design

[1:41:10] and has gone through environmental review so that project is moving forward

[1:41:14] we anticipate with the landing and the other projects and the and the uh we

[1:41:19] talked about the um

[1:41:22] uh

[1:41:25] the uh the traffic impact fee sorry I was having a senior moment there

[1:41:30] um the traffic impact fees paid we're currently putting the funds together to

[1:41:34] build that bridge so a few years maybe yes anticipate a few years okay 25 26 I

[1:41:40] think is the Target right now okay all right and then finally there's again the

[1:41:45] traffic report and this may have been another element that's that's not going

[1:41:49] to be ultimately recommendation if there's discussion of the bike usage on

[1:41:54] Dry Creek Road and the potential to I don't have the

[1:41:58] languages exactly some additional width or something is there any change to

[1:42:02] accommodate bikes either as a part of this or in the future on Dry Creek

[1:42:06] uh now with this project uh possibly in the future right now Dry Creek Road is

[1:42:12] seen as a class 3 Bikeway which is on you know basically signed but not

[1:42:17] striped uh and there is no plans to increase the width of Dry Creek if it's

[1:42:22] done yeah I think I was reacting to a

[1:42:25] reference that the city's arterial standards are actually for by class two

[1:42:28] even though other plants they class through

[1:42:32] the arterial standards do have that uh the city made the city council made a

[1:42:37] decision to build Dry Creek in its current configuration okay thank you

[1:42:42] that's all the questions I have thank you Mr chair

[1:42:47] all right commissioner co-rubias don't go too far David

[1:42:51] I do have a question for awesome but I'll ask you first David so

[1:42:56] commissioner kogler nailed it when he asked about the where were Bridge

[1:43:00] 2526-ish we have other projects out on Airport Road that are future development

[1:43:06] some may even get approved prior to that I'm thinking summer months

[1:43:12] Ravine water park packed you got now this Winery you've got

[1:43:17] Stravinsky Dao I mean the plan that Caltrans come up with is obviously make

[1:43:24] that right we talked about this during Stravinsky

[1:43:28] how are we going to monitor and keep those trucks from making u-turns

[1:43:33] and and not trying to make a left when they're geared to make a right I mean

[1:43:38] it's impossible to monitor that yes I mean what's going to prevent these guys

[1:43:42] I mean is that whole intersection going to be redone re revised other than just

[1:43:48] a speed up Lane I just sound clear you're referring to

[1:43:52] airport yeah yes uh so as someone mentioned earlier uh

[1:43:59] the construction of it's a raised median Island but it's called the pork chop

[1:44:03] it's kind of the art term of art uh so that will be in place there's actually

[1:44:08] one similar to it you can look at right now at uh sensorio so they have they

[1:44:14] Caltrans did not allow them to have a left turn out at sensorio heading

[1:44:19] towards Fresno so that median is in place right now it's raised it's about

[1:44:24] six inch curb it forces traffic to go right you could I mean you could go

[1:44:31] around that pork chop and you could get a ticket for that

[1:44:35] because the right terms are prohibited at that or excuse me if the left turns

[1:44:39] are prohibited uh at that intersection so the physical Improvement itself

[1:44:44] raised median Island channelizes folks to turn right could

[1:44:49] they go around that and turn left uh yes but typically we don't have a problem

[1:44:54] with compliance in that case the odds the odd case you know could turn left

[1:45:01] there but it is more difficult than than just

[1:45:05] you know it's not a straight it won't be a straight shot anymore and still have

[1:45:08] that like way wide open Lane yeah and I get this

[1:45:16] my concern is we're building that roundabout for a

[1:45:20] purpose of helping helping flow of traffic and when we start diverting

[1:45:24] everybody that way I mean I it's almost counterproductive

[1:45:29] is what's going to occur at least until 25 26 if we're lucky right right so

[1:45:35] that's kind of a little bit of the concern is what are we doing there and

[1:45:38] then you add in Barney Schwartz Park and the vehicles coming from that direction

[1:45:43] um it's just to me it's concerning that's it I I hear what you're saying I

[1:45:48] I think that um so there are times of day like for all

[1:45:53] these projects Stravinsky Dao and now Triana they have time of day

[1:45:57] restrictions on the busy like Monday through Friday Monday through Thursday

[1:46:00] and Friday and in the peak hour on Sunday they have time of day

[1:46:05] restrictions for travel those will coincide with the busy hours on City

[1:46:09] surface streets that's only for the larger Vehicles like trucks like

[1:46:15] full-size cargo type trucks or semis those Vehicles will be the ones using

[1:46:22] the roundabout at the times that don't coincide

[1:46:28] or could you know rarely you know you have a you have a tournament at Barney

[1:46:33] Schwartz and all the soccer folks are leaving you know at one time those kind

[1:46:38] of clogs are going to happen no matter what we do uh you know whether triana's

[1:46:42] trucks are there or Stravinsky Dallas trucks are there you're gonna just have

[1:46:46] you're gonna have a short-term impact at that intersection

[1:46:49] um so that's why we set it up time of day restrictions to one not interfere

[1:46:53] with the operations Caltrans facility and in the short term not interfere with

[1:46:57] the cities roundabout operations uh most of the pickup trucks most of the Trap

[1:47:03] the traffic will be passenger vehicles uh pickup trucks and cars those can

[1:47:11] still do a u-turn at Golden Hill Road they don't need to go into the into the

[1:47:17] city to do a lot to do the U-turn so we're only talking about the larger

[1:47:24] Vehicles okay I appreciate it yeah thank you David

[1:47:28] Mr hope I have a question sir um

[1:47:32] just curious and and this maybe be a learning thing maybe even staff our

[1:47:36] solar panels restricted out in that area because of the airport Darren no they're

[1:47:41] not so just curious yes they're not there aren't any solar panels proposed

[1:47:44] in this project yes is that right well we were putting in applications for it

[1:47:49] oh you are yes okay I was looking for that and I and I must have missed it

[1:47:53] then so there are certain solar panels out there being proposed uh our company

[1:47:57] Bahama solar which has done a couple projects for me in the valley is uh

[1:48:01] is going to submit this week because as everybody knows too they're you know

[1:48:06] they're changing all the right things right in any sense that's a whole other

[1:48:09] rant we could go on but uh yes so it will be solar okay perfect perfect well

[1:48:15] I was on DRC so I appreciate all the changes you've made

[1:48:19] um since DRC so yeah that's it okay

[1:48:24] um

[1:48:30] is the existing building essentially Ash Gray which is one of the colors in your

[1:48:35] new palette they're very similar okay so that as as you probably know they change

[1:48:40] all the time and so it's hard to pinpoint everything exactly but there's

[1:48:43] not going to be major drastic differences okay your computer

[1:48:45] illustrations are really helpful but it had like a muted back leaf pattern over

[1:48:49] a lot of that and I couldn't tell if it was a light gray or dark gray but it all

[1:48:52] Blends together yeah I feel it does okay and then my other point would be it's

[1:48:57] not really a question so much as a request for staff this review is in the

[1:49:02] same circumstance as one we had a couple of meetings ago in that the comment

[1:49:06] period runs through today and that clock kind of keeps going

[1:49:10] because any comments that are postmarked today or prior to that would still be

[1:49:14] valid a day or two or three from now I would just ask staff as as we go through

[1:49:18] other aspects of this just make sure the rest of the solution language reflects

[1:49:22] that as we did on that previous case that the door isn't really close to

[1:49:26] comments but based on the information we know as of tonight we will act on things

[1:49:30] is that and one thing to understand though is

[1:49:34] previous projects may have been recommendations to council so the period

[1:49:39] went beyond tonight so that was a difference on Stravinsky Dao this

[1:49:44] project has been noticed so that the environmental document Ends Tonight

[1:49:48] so regardless of a comment is postmarked by noon today that comment is not found

[1:49:53] valid we would have gotten them and they would have been

[1:49:56] like the three letters we've provided those to you

[1:50:00] okay all right thank you any other Commissioners follow-up

[1:50:05] questions okay well

[1:50:08] um hand it to my other Commissioners they asked and got answered several of

[1:50:12] the questions they already had David I had one follow-up question uh for you in

[1:50:17] regards to Union in 46 are you planning on putting the pork chop in that

[1:50:23] situation too because I tell you what people pulling out left from 46 trying

[1:50:27] to head back towards town it's just a nightmare

[1:50:31] where Union comes into 46 Facing East right there right

[1:50:35] um so right now there's two projects that

[1:50:38] are conditioned to close that left out one is the hotel on the the South kind

[1:50:44] of West corner of that kind of Y intersection and the other is the water

[1:50:49] park neither project has moved forward with their with their plans uh the hotel

[1:50:55] is is a little further ahead than the water park but uh

[1:51:00] I believe it's prior to final of the hotel that they would have to close that

[1:51:04] left out um and put in new signage directing

[1:51:08] people where to go if they want to go back towards town okay I think I

[1:51:12] remember that now thank you appreciate it

[1:51:15] um I think that's it for my questions so um

[1:51:20] if the other Commissioners don't have any other questions of Staff or the

[1:51:23] applicant then we'll move to public comment

[1:51:26] is there anyone that would like to comment

[1:51:30] if not do we have anybody on the phone no callers okay

[1:51:35] moving on to commissioner discussion so I will start off with commissioner

[1:51:40] Marlow again if you have some items you want to

[1:51:43] discuss I no no comment yeah commissioner Conley

[1:51:49] I don't have any further I think commissioner kogler I was on DRC

[1:51:55] and was on the phone call with some of the faces that I can now put names with

[1:51:58] and I think this is a great project I think you've done a phenomenal job on

[1:52:02] the building and you profess to be gung-ho and Landscaping and it's evident

[1:52:06] with what's out there as you drive past your existing facility it stands out

[1:52:10] today and I can't wait to see what your new facility does to tie into that so I

[1:52:13] fully support the project commissioner kovaruvius yep I was also

[1:52:18] on DRC as mentioned and uh I 100 support the project I think you guys have done a

[1:52:23] great job it's going to be a beautiful facility

[1:52:26] um just I think it's gonna be great in fact uh I'm prepared to make a motion if

[1:52:30] we're ready for that I just wanted to comment that I would Echo your uh your

[1:52:34] thoughts um it was a little unfair the photo of

[1:52:37] your Landscaping now but I have been out there when it's really nice and I do

[1:52:42] appreciate that you take such value in it because

[1:52:45] um ordinarily that stretch growing up here in Paso has never been the most

[1:52:49] beautiful location even though I love to fly as well too so yes if there is a

[1:52:54] motion I believe on the table yes sir I'd like to make a motion that we

[1:52:58] approve draft resolution a to adopt the proposed mitigated negative declaration

[1:53:03] and mitigation monitoring and Reporting plan and Item B draft resolution B to

[1:53:09] approve plan development 22-03 along with the added conditions

[1:53:15] for landscaping okay do we have a second on that I will

[1:53:20] second and I will ask I guess does that have to be one motion or two

[1:53:27] making a motion to cover both resolutions is fine in this case then a

[1:53:31] double second it is okay seconded by commissioner kogler

[1:53:35] um roll call what do we have any discussion on that anybody no okay roll

[1:53:40] call commissioner cover rubius aye

[1:53:43] commissioner kogler aye commissioner Marlow aye commissioner Conley aye Mr

[1:53:49] Vice chair Christensen aye so the record will reflect that the

[1:53:55] most in past 5-0 with Neil abstaining for a conflict and we should invite uh

[1:54:01] chairs person Neil back in Katie digiardi okay thank you so much

[1:54:07] and at this time I'll hand it back over to uh chairperson Neil

[1:54:27] thank you very much um glad to be back

[1:54:31] the next agenda item is uh Olson South Chandler specific plan planning Area 13

[1:54:40] vesting tentative track map 3213 and plan development 22-16

[1:54:51] p22-0103 applicant is SG Capital Partners staff

[1:54:57] yes Mr chairman members of the commission this is the uh what's known

[1:55:03] as pa-13 so this is planning area 13. of the uptown Uptown the Olson South

[1:55:09] Chandler specific plan also uh called the Nieto

[1:55:14] so this is these are exhibits out of the specific plan uh the vicinity map there

[1:55:21] is showing all those different colors is the entire Olson South Chandler specific

[1:55:27] plan you can see the numbers in those those areas represent the planning area

[1:55:31] numbers the table on the right hand side indicates the different planning areas

[1:55:38] and the number of units as well as the type of residential that was approved

[1:55:46] with the specific plan so this evening we are looking at this

[1:55:51] area planning area 13. so just to give you a little bit of idea

[1:55:55] of where we are so uh looking up here this is uh Sherwood Road as it comes

[1:56:01] down typically we then turn right on Fontana and then we would hit lynnae and

[1:56:08] then we'd come down to airport so this jog you're all familiar with I may have

[1:56:12] mixed up a few names there but the whole idea is that Sherwood Road will be

[1:56:17] extended along uh here with the Olson South Chandler specific plan and it'll

[1:56:22] come down and then hit in with Meadowlark Road down here

[1:56:27] so this area is is a alignment of the existing Lane Road and this is planning

[1:56:33] Area 13 and this is Hanson Road and then Hanson Road is the current city

[1:56:39] boundaries between the county and the city limits

[1:56:43] so looking up here at planning Area 13 this was an area intended for motor

[1:56:48] motor Court type development there's 129 lots that were around 129 residential

[1:56:55] units approved for a planning area 13. this is out of the specific plan as well

[1:57:03] this is showing the 129 units in these clusters of six uh residential units

[1:57:10] each of these units are on a spec on a separate uh parcel so there's a

[1:57:16] subdivision map that goes along with this the small lot Subdivision map that

[1:57:22] was approved with the Olson South Chandler specific plan uh also approved

[1:57:27] these 129 lots and then these other amenity Lots as well

[1:57:34] so this is again the specific plan and how those six Courtyard units were laid

[1:57:40] out and then the T driveway coming in into the garages so that's the courtyard

[1:57:46] design approved with the specific plan

[1:57:51] so this is a slide that starts to get into what's being proposed tonight with

[1:57:56] STG and this is a STG is proposing 107 Lots so 107 primary

[1:58:08] units so they'd be reducing it from 129 Lots down to 107. so one of the things

[1:58:14] we're looking for the Planning Commission to do tonight is to approve

[1:58:17] that new tentative Subdivision map with the

[1:58:22] 107 primary Lots they are asking for a few setback

[1:58:30] reductions but the reason for that is with the 107 Lots this project is

[1:58:36] proposing one excess redwelling unit with each lot be attached to that

[1:58:42] primary unit so this STG plan is a primary unit with a accessory dwelling

[1:58:49] unit with each unit so that is also

[1:58:55] the 107 Lots there's a reduction in the number of the primary units in these

[1:59:01] units so it goes from six down to six uh primary units down to five and then that

[1:59:09] accommodates those accessory dwelling units

[1:59:12] there we're going to talk a little bit about the architectural style and then

[1:59:16] there's some added amenities with this project with the clubhouse and with the

[1:59:21] fitness buildings uh the architect uh Daniel Gammon is

[1:59:27] here tonight he's going to make a presentation so I'm not going to get

[1:59:30] real deep into these site planning and Architectural

[1:59:35] in terms of the accessory dwelling units just wanted to provide a breakdown

[1:59:39] because one of the things if you looked at the project description from the uh

[1:59:44] from the applicant was they requested the modification to reduce the amount of

[1:59:50] open space allowed for the accessory dwelling units so this is just a little

[1:59:55] bit of information on Accessory dwelling units

[1:59:58] um the state law for accessory dwelling

[2:00:03] units as well as the city's ordinance it does not require uh

[2:00:11] open space for accessory dwelling units when they're 800 or less square feet so

[2:00:17] the city does not have the ability to require uh

[2:00:21] open space for accessory dwelling units when they're 800 or less square feet

[2:00:27] there's other things too but the open space is what this project is requesting

[2:00:32] some relief from

[2:00:36] the number of adus that they're proposing is 107 if you look at the

[2:00:41] breakdown the plan 180u is less than 800 square feet at 663. the plan 2 square

[2:00:49] footage is 643 square feet and then the Adu for the plan 3 is slightly over the

[2:00:56] 800 square feet but it come to find out that the the actually if we look at the

[2:01:01] design for the Adu for the 847 square feet the 21 situations where that

[2:01:08] happens the open space the private open space is actually provided for on those

[2:01:13] so we can talk about this a little bit more after the presentation from the

[2:01:18] architect the whole idea

[2:01:22] and we'll get to let me get to the STG plan here

[2:01:27] yep relying on Daniel to provide that so the

[2:01:32] whole idea is that their project with the the open space is provided for

[2:01:37] common areas with the amenities with the clubhouse with the fitness center but

[2:01:41] that common open space would provide for uh the open space for whether it's the

[2:01:49] primary units or the accessory dwelling units the primary units have the private

[2:01:55] open space but just in general the intent of this whole area and with

[2:02:02] the specific plans with the Turtle Creek Park with all of the trails there's a

[2:02:07] lot of open space provided for in the specific plan area that is beyond what

[2:02:13] would be uh provided for on each of the individual

[2:02:18] units this is a specific plan so this is this

[2:02:24] is out of the specific plan so there was a wine country element there was a

[2:02:30] progressive Spanish and there was a modern Farmhouse element what you're

[2:02:34] going to see in the presentation is the request for the all of the units to just

[2:02:40] to maintain This Modern Farmhouse architectural style throughout

[2:02:45] there's different color palettes there's different models so they don't all look

[2:02:49] the same but there's a section in the specific plan that indicates that the

[2:02:55] planning areas should have the three different types or the three different

[2:03:01] types of architectural they're proposing to stick with the modern Farmhouse and

[2:03:06] the architect will be able to walk you through the designs on that

[2:03:11] this is the development standards the setbacks the height

[2:03:16] the the landscape the parking this is that courtyard design this

[2:03:23] project as I mentioned will have five primary units instead of six it opens up

[2:03:28] a little more but the main reason is that they're adding those Adu units

[2:03:35] uh the architect will go through this and and indicate kind of the areas and

[2:03:40] get more into uh the request for the setback reductions uh generally along

[2:03:45] the Nay Road uh this is indicating a 10-foot rear yard setback they're

[2:03:50] proposing uh just under nine eight eight feet and some uh and some inches for

[2:03:57] some reductions from the 10 down to eight but they'll be able to he'll be

[2:04:01] able to provide that in his uh presentation

[2:04:05] this is out of the specific plan just indicating the farmhouse style in

[2:04:10] different uh materials

[2:04:14] foreign this is out of the specific plan showing the plan the the cross section

[2:04:19] for Lane Road the two lanes the bike Lanes uh drain bioswells drainage on the

[2:04:27] side and then a 12 foot uh pedestrian bicycle path is being being provided on

[2:04:34] the south side of Lanae road with some additional six feet of landscaping and

[2:04:39] this this is representing the the rear fence the rear property line of these

[2:04:44] pa-13 units which would be here so when we talk about this 10-foot setback from

[2:04:51] this property line to where the building is requesting to be able to reduce down

[2:04:56] to eight uh keep in mind that we've got quite a bit of things happening on the

[2:05:02] right-of-way side before you get to a travel Lane and that's what this is

[2:05:07] graphic is representing so what we're looking at this evening is

[2:05:13] a request to approve the vesting tentative map for pa-13 along with the

[2:05:20] development plan and then there are other options

[2:05:25] to modify option A or refer back to staff

[2:05:31] or make findings for denial one thing to keep in mind is the STG

[2:05:39] map the truck 3213 as long as well as development plan

[2:05:45] 2216. this would set up a second option for this pa-13 property the first option

[2:05:52] is what was approved in the specific plan so the the

[2:05:57] 129 units along with the specific plan development standards still would be an

[2:06:04] entitlement for this pa-13 so that along with this project would have options uh

[2:06:12] the STG group is in contract to be purchase pa-13 they want to make sure

[2:06:19] that their entitlements of what they want to do is established what this is

[2:06:23] about what's being proposed with these applications uh but there will be the

[2:06:28] point where escrow is closed STG would then have the ability to move forward

[2:06:33] with their plans which if they approve tonight would be that option if for some

[2:06:39] reason that that escrow doesn't happen and this TG doesn't end up purchasing

[2:06:43] this pa13 the current uh uh owner the Olsen 212 LLC could still rely upon that

[2:06:53] original plan uh with the specific plan for development so those that's two

[2:06:58] options there'll be a point where there's a map that tentative map whether

[2:07:03] it's this map or the previous gets recorded at what point that the maps

[2:07:08] recorded then that accompanying development plan and this or the

[2:07:12] specific plan would need to then follow up with the design in relation to that

[2:07:16] map but with that I'd be happy to answer any

[2:07:21] questions but also the architect is here to we have a

[2:07:26] presentation Cuda

[2:07:30] great thank you Darren and please join us

[2:07:35] uh my name is Daniel Gaiman with danielian Associates and we have been

[2:07:39] The Architects for this project and I believe I have Adam and Ryan one of the

[2:07:43] other or both on the phone yeah I'm uh Adam tankrini from STG is on

[2:07:50] the phone awesome thanks Adam

[2:07:53] um so I'm going to introduce and walk through in a little bit more detail some

[2:07:57] of these fine points for this project but I just have to say this I'm so glad

[2:08:01] that we got to go after Triana winery because

[2:08:04] has been said that homes is where Jobs go to sleep at night and so I I can

[2:08:09] imagine some of the people they will have there living in the uh in p13 and

[2:08:15] one we're going to come up with a groovy name for it eventually as well

[2:08:18] um so uh Darcy can I have the Marcy sorry we have a Marcia and Darcy okay

[2:08:23] Marcy

[2:08:32] so what I want to do in the presentation is first give a little background on how

[2:08:36] this became fewer structures on the 16 Acres but

[2:08:42] with more households in it um the the guys at sgg were very

[2:08:46] interested in fulfilling some of the some of the dreamy intentions of the

[2:08:51] specific plan which include providing a range of housing types and a range of

[2:08:56] price points by introducing accessory dwelling units into this neighborhood

[2:09:01] that's in fact happening um because they are they're they're

[2:09:04] modestly sized uh and they are what we call naturally occurring affordable

[2:09:10] housing in some cases because they're just smaller units the homes themselves

[2:09:14] are modestly sized they're primaries and then the accessory dwelling units by

[2:09:18] Design are roughly half the square footage of what each primary residence

[2:09:22] is

[2:09:29] hmm

[2:09:39] Adam do you want to um we're waiting for the up for the presentation to come up

[2:09:42] do you want to just give a quick introduction of how you guys came

[2:09:46] abreast of the adding accessory doiling units concept

[2:09:50] yeah sure Daniel um so uh first off thank you everyone

[2:09:55] for your time tonight I appreciate everyone's accommodation of adding us to

[2:09:59] this schedule on this thing so thank you for that

[2:10:02] um but yeah to Daniel's question um when we first looked at this at this

[2:10:08] PA 13 um and we are in our background is

[2:10:12] hoping um apartment development as well as

[2:10:15] industrial but um we we were struggling with the fact

[2:10:21] that the entire master plan Community yeah

[2:10:26] I really didn't have

[2:10:32] built the red scale um and that's uh you know it's if you're

[2:10:36] reading the news or you know looking at what's going on in the world today the

[2:10:40] build to rent Market is is so important and it's so needed uh you know there's a

[2:10:47] lot of that middle class that can't necessarily afford a home but they want

[2:10:50] the home lifestyle and what we've done here is essentially

[2:10:54] that is provided something that's really missing from this overall community

[2:11:00] that can allow a young family that's in the area

[2:11:05] um the ability to have that that was really important uh essentially

[2:11:10] for us uh you know as developers and also you know

[2:11:15] having families themselves uh really wanted to provide uh for this community

[2:11:20] so that that was kind of the the initial thought process and then also looking at

[2:11:26] it from unmarkability standpoint of how do we differentiate ourselves from you

[2:11:31] know kehov or Shea Homes uh the trilogy project uh how do we stand out and and

[2:11:36] not necessarily compete with them but create more value overall for the entire

[2:11:40] master plan community so that's that's how we came about this and perfect

[2:11:43] timing Adam because we now have the presentation ready to rock

[2:11:49] um great so can I have the next one this is great so whoops

[2:11:56] um oh it's not I can just say next I I know

[2:12:01] it pretty well so um okay so this this is all the heavy

[2:12:06] lifting um in terms of the things we're asking for it's the the two tables are

[2:12:10] the elements of the modern farm house style and the development standards for

[2:12:14] the Mordecai so you see a lot of green printing because that's what we have

[2:12:18] conformed with um most of the requirements there are a few that we had

[2:12:23] to Elbow our way through a little bit in order to get the accessory dwelling

[2:12:26] units to work with the primary residents I mentioned before on the right hand

[2:12:30] side just some key points that we started with a specific plan

[2:12:36] um that stresses attainable housing opportunities we went and includes

[2:12:41] accessory dwelling units as a permitted use within the specific plan area

[2:12:47] um then it refers you to the city's housing element which some of the goals

[2:12:50] policies and action items include providing an array of housing options

[2:12:55] for people at an array of income levels and uh specifically through the

[2:13:00] promotion of the accessory dwelling units and then I won't bore you with the

[2:13:03] details but there's a few wonky points from the state Adu law that Darren

[2:13:07] already referred to um that talks about how these homes each

[2:13:12] home is entitled to have one of these by state law within the sort of boundaries

[2:13:17] that are defined there again I won't read that point for point so that's the

[2:13:21] heavy lifting and I'm going to um at DRC there were a lot of questions

[2:13:26] about how does this property how is it managed because Adam mentioned built to

[2:13:32] rent and so the intention of this community is that all of the units are

[2:13:37] rented the primary residences are and the accessory dwelling units are as well

[2:13:41] so we've just put together a quick few quick bullet points kind of the next

[2:13:45] slide please on how the management will work and it will also address if there's

[2:13:51] ever a possibility of a for sale exit strategy from the project

[2:13:57] and Adam if you uh can can speak it we're still hoping the slide will come

[2:14:02] up soon and if you have the presentation

[2:14:05] yourself can you wing it from that

[2:14:14] foreign

[2:14:29] I'm I'm here I'm breaking up though what did you just ask Daniel sorry sorry

[2:14:33] we're again we're having technical difficulties here and I'm hoping that

[2:14:37] while we fill the space you can speak to the management issues which would be

[2:14:40] slide three in the package event yeah absolutely so like Daniel said you know

[2:14:46] you know rental units um

[2:14:49] show you that we've we've actually added amenities to this specific PA of a

[2:14:57] clubhouse which also acts as a leasing office a wine tasting room uh and a Rec

[2:15:02] Center as well as a workout facility uh Pool and Spa

[2:15:09] um so you have a your Resort style amenities for a beautiful housing

[2:15:13] community which is going to be great so the management is going to be a third

[2:15:17] party management company as as is as if you would manage like an apartment

[2:15:20] complex um you know we when we were talking with

[2:15:24] city council or excuse me Planning Commission on the uh the DRC

[2:15:30] um you know some questions were asked about you know well what happens if you

[2:15:34] know you sell some of these Lots or you don't well the buyer of this particular

[2:15:39] project is going to be essentially buying the entire Community

[2:15:43] um even though you're able to option off and and sell uh a single lot at a time

[2:15:49] um you know we are open to having a deed restriction uh on the property so that

[2:15:53] doesn't happen even though we've done projects in Bill Durant where we've

[2:15:59] essentially sold off um half half of the units and it doesn't

[2:16:04] necessarily matter because there is a sub-association if that would happen

[2:16:08] that would then partake with the third party management and they would keep

[2:16:13] that management going even after the houses are sold to still manage those

[2:16:17] amenities and that process so um I hope that answers some of the

[2:16:22] questions if not I'm happy to answer any other questions and get more and more

[2:16:25] detail you know down the line if any commissioner has any any question

[2:16:30] options on that great thanks Adam I mean we are back up and running I think let

[2:16:34] me see ah yes so um Darren already showed this this is this the site plan

[2:16:39] that was included in the specific plan this is our proposed site plan Darren

[2:16:46] already explained that sometimes in the nomenclature of motor Court housing

[2:16:51] they're known as a six-pack or an eight pack and so we changed them from six

[2:16:56] packs to five packs for this very critically important reason that to have

[2:17:01] six houses in there we were left without adequate parking spaces for the

[2:17:05] accessory dwelling units so by reducing a six-pack to a five pack

[2:17:09] um we have at a in the auto court itself a surface parking space for each of the

[2:17:15] accessory dwelling units that are in the cluster so that was really important in

[2:17:19] this and Darren mentioned it does kind of open up the space in the middle of

[2:17:22] that motor court but I'll show you in a moment but um the uh

[2:17:29] I wanted to go back for one second the their Landscaping Pockets throughout the

[2:17:33] site um at the North along lynnae there's a

[2:17:37] square at the end of each of the public streets I don't have the laser pointers

[2:17:40] that I'm here too it is awesome okay Okay so

[2:17:47] there's a pocket part there's a pocket part there's a pocket part there's this

[2:17:51] internal Paseo that runs most of the length of the western side of the

[2:17:56] property and then we have our clubhouse in leasing there and uh a cool a pool

[2:18:01] core and a fitness room specialty Fitness and a dog run so there's lots of

[2:18:06] open space around the site I just want to show you a couple of those more

[2:18:10] closely this is um whoops sorry

[2:18:15] uh uh that is a nicely appointed and

[2:18:20] Landscape pocket park there are slightly different and that's the nature of the

[2:18:24] Paseo so the house and then it's uh yard captured and then a public walking space

[2:18:29] in between the whole Community was designed to be very highly walkable

[2:18:33] um lots of sidewalks to lead you to those common amenity spaces

[2:18:37] so um this is the six pack cluster plan

[2:18:42] from the specific plan and this is our modified five pack plant

[2:18:48] what we've done is added this diagram from the from the DRC for those of you

[2:18:52] who were there um to distinguish between the primary

[2:18:55] residence and the accessory dwelling units and here it's very easy the

[2:18:58] primaries are are in Gray and the accessory dwelling units are in blue

[2:19:04] um so what we've shown is Pathways from the Adu parking spaces there and how

[2:19:10] they access the front door of their dwelling

[2:19:13] um one has to walk a little bit further than the others

[2:19:16] um these guys come out in a round to get into their accessory dwelling unit with

[2:19:21] the set the different entries and the different approaches to the dwellings it

[2:19:25] kind of tweaks the idea of is a yard a front yard a side yard or a rear yard in

[2:19:30] some cases but generally speaking that's how people circulate around the site

[2:19:35] again I mentioned earlier that each accessory dwelling unit is about half

[2:19:38] the size by lot of the primary dwelling unit the um there are two plans here

[2:19:44] that are right around 14 100 square feet for the primary unit and the adus are

[2:19:49] less than 700 we have one bigger home that's at 1700 square feet which is Plan

[2:19:53] Three and it's adus that's 840 or so

[2:20:00] this is a diagram to highlight the variances from setbacks that we're

[2:20:04] requesting um the yellow highlighted areas we had

[2:20:08] the backyards reduced to something less than 10 feet it varies a little bit

[2:20:12] because the houses are orthogonal and the property lines are not so it's a

[2:20:16] teeny tiny little wedge there that makes the dimension variable

[2:20:21] um on this side where that home that's planned to is on an outside corner

[2:20:27] requires a deeper yard than it typically would and we have varied that in that

[2:20:33] situation that occurs eight times in the property and then down here these two

[2:20:39] homes were already really Compact and to make the accessory dwelling units work

[2:20:43] in those homes we reduce their front yard setback a little bit but they're

[2:20:48] still they set that beyond the sidewalk plus a tree line and I'll have a photo

[2:20:52] to show you that later where the entry to the homes have we're trying to treat

[2:20:56] them as almost like a brownstone kind of walk up into front outdoor sort of

[2:21:01] situation so that's just a quick illustration of the variances having to

[2:21:06] do with with yards

[2:21:09] this was the proposed landscape plan from this specific plant I just want you

[2:21:13] to know quickly the sort of placement of the trees and pockets of planting

[2:21:17] this is sorry it's a little bit smaller but here the the number of three Street

[2:21:22] trees and internal cluster trees are the same and the pockets of planting are

[2:21:26] stunningly similar from um our proposal to the specific plan

[2:21:34] and just to really blow it up for you this is backyards along Lynnette and uh

[2:21:38] reduced from the 10 to somewhat less and you can see different Furniture

[2:21:41] Arrangements that are placed in there uh that actually show their usable space

[2:21:45] and some of the space is for Adu and some of it is for primary house so the

[2:21:49] kind of side by side with fences in between them for privacy

[2:21:55] and here are some images um one big shift from DRC for those of

[2:21:59] you who are at DRC we received the comment asking us about the fence design

[2:22:03] that separated these yards from the bike path and all that Landscaping on lynnae

[2:22:07] and uh that has been worked through and working with planning stuff thank you

[2:22:13] Darren we have proposed an alternate fence there that instead of what we call

[2:22:17] Zoo fence which is just pickets we went to a more solid we kept the brick base

[2:22:22] in the in the stone the pie lasters but filled that in with a more solid fence

[2:22:27] and it just makes these yards so much more private than that open fence did

[2:22:31] when he showed the streak diagram earlier you could see that sort of zoo

[2:22:34] style fence and uh a combination of folks that just wasn't the right thing

[2:22:39] even though the specific plan required that so we've adapted this from other

[2:22:44] fence types in the specific plant

[2:22:48] this is an aerial view of of the cluster itself

[2:22:52] um you can see how the Adu parking spaces which are here open up uh the

[2:22:57] space a lot more and what that has the effect of doing is giving more windows

[2:23:01] on each house exposure to light so that's sort of a nice perk of having the

[2:23:05] five instead of the six

[2:23:10] um just a couple of other views the one on the left is is more street view into

[2:23:13] the court and the one on the right shows the plan one that I mentioned where we

[2:23:18] have reduced the yard requirement along there

[2:23:21] um by three feet and we have all of the entries to that

[2:23:26] home are articulated with this nice porch element that they are they frame

[2:23:32] the entry into the court so we like that sort of walkable quality

[2:23:36] um staying consistent with that throughout the neighborhood

[2:23:41] there's a view along lynnae um this is our uh visualization of the

[2:23:48] section that Darren showed earlier and that's the changed fence that creates

[2:23:52] the Privacy for those yards because there is an awful lot going on out here

[2:23:55] and starting The Pedestrian and bike path uh and there you can just see a

[2:24:00] flat flatter view that's our that's the biggest house the biggest Adu in the

[2:24:04] plan is the one that stretches along what is the backyard

[2:24:08] foreign just just a quick word on the clubhouse

[2:24:12] amenity it is it functions as the leasing because this is intended to be a

[2:24:17] built a rental Community um and lots of features there's just a

[2:24:21] ton of indoor outdoor space and I'll show you a rendering of that and in a

[2:24:25] moment because basically this whole

[2:24:27] neighborhood was approached as if it were a multi-family apartment community

[2:24:33] um and so typically you see nice lavish amenities and these for the number of

[2:24:38] units are out here totally we went for 129 lots to 107 but there's two two

[2:24:43] dwellings in each of those so it's a total of 214 households

[2:24:47] um here and the amount of amenity that STG is proposing for that many

[2:24:53] households is really lavish it's it's like a resort

[2:24:58] um so it just lists some of the features that we have going on there and then uh

[2:25:03] that's a little shot of the back of that ins that doesn't face the street this is

[2:25:07] faces back into the property of the shared community space leasing Center

[2:25:11] and so on

[2:25:14] and then this is the the pool it's quite a large pool a spa

[2:25:19] um a fitness room and a specialty Fitness room and a sort of pathway

[2:25:23] between them you can just want to point out right there this this is a very uh

[2:25:28] nice path that comes down for the rest of the community and leads into this

[2:25:32] open space which is shared by everyone in the community the dog park is over

[2:25:35] here

[2:25:38] that this is one of my favorite parts of the site this is that um pathway that

[2:25:42] leads you down into the area of all the outdoor recreation the active Recreation

[2:25:48] um the pool uh specialty Fitness and fitness rooms

[2:25:53] and that might be it oh no so this this I can enlarge this

[2:26:00] but let me talk about parking for a moment the um we were concerned about

[2:26:04] that from the beginning and a nice feature about there's that's a public

[2:26:09] road that's a public road that and that are both public roads so we have lots of

[2:26:13] public roads sort of interfaced with our community and along all of those and

[2:26:18] also along Parkview which is the street at the end you can see these teeny tiny

[2:26:22] hash marks there we have on-street parking all over so

[2:26:27] um within 107 Lots each primary residence has two parking spaces in a

[2:26:33] garage each accessory dwelling unit has one surface parking space within the

[2:26:39] cluster so they're all parked on that basis and then in addition to that there

[2:26:43] are 121 Street spaces so if you take all that math together that works out about

[2:26:50] um four parking spaces per lot so those parking is very generous throughout the

[2:26:56] neighborhood that was a concerned really early on in the planning process and we

[2:27:00] thought we believe that we've really held that and honored that requirement

[2:27:06] and as Darren referred to earlier I know my my friends at STG are just really

[2:27:11] rare to go on this we're very excited about it and once again I'm so glad to

[2:27:15] have followed that Winery project that's bringing jobs to Paso and we're bringing

[2:27:19] homes for those people to come home and sleep in so that's um just a quick tour

[2:27:24] through what was proposed and what we have now and I'm happy to answer

[2:27:28] questions as well great thank you very much

[2:27:33] um commissioner Christian questions

[2:27:38] uh just a couple questions um

[2:27:44] the uh the different floor plans Darren so you're asking the commission tonight

[2:27:49] to um

[2:27:52] allow the applicant to just go with one plan

[2:27:56] one rendering planner elevation plan sorry no

[2:28:01] um I think there are many there's three different plans and other elevations so

[2:28:06] there's multiple architectural plans proposed I think uh what I was trying to

[2:28:11] say was the specific plan indicated three architectural themes right uh and

[2:28:17] what we're looking for is just kind of the one architectural theme and Daniel

[2:28:20] maybe you can hit on that a little bit more is the what's being proposed is the

[2:28:26] modern Farmhouse which is a permitted style in the specific plan but these

[2:28:31] they're looking at doing that style throughout all the the 107 buildings

[2:28:36] they're going to have different variations of that throughout but so

[2:28:41] what I was just bringing to the planning commission's attention was the uh the

[2:28:48] one farmhouse style and then they're just gonna do variations of the

[2:28:52] particular style and they're not going to have a Spanish style and they're not

[2:28:56] going to

[2:28:58] and there was an interest there was a philosophical position behind doing that

[2:29:02] as well is that we wanted the a whole neighborhood to read as a village that

[2:29:07] had a kind of um a uniformity among the dwellings and

[2:29:12] then on the two uh common area buildings out in front we call the leasing Center

[2:29:17] Clubhouse we always call that the big house because it's the most articulated

[2:29:21] the most ornamented building in the entire neighborhood and then the fitness

[2:29:25] room is the barn and so it's architecture kind of reflects that so we

[2:29:30] wanted a homogeneity among where the residents were a spectacular bit for the

[2:29:36] leasing and Clubhouse and then kind of a nudge wink wink to the local agriculture

[2:29:41] with the fitness building okay thank you

[2:29:45] um so the the other question I had was um could

[2:29:51] you clarify again it was it kind of seemed a little confusing for the

[2:29:55] setback changes where the locations will be that that the applicants requesting

[2:30:00] um the setback uh allowances

[2:30:07] boy I don't know what I did here

[2:30:11] someone else

[2:30:14] got it okay this is a this exhibit I think is good this is so the that five

[2:30:22] pack is the essential cluster there are 21 clusters and one half cluster that

[2:30:27] make up the overall community and the um the two on the bottom

[2:30:32] is is that setback we asked to go from eight to three uh eight to five so that

[2:30:38] reduced uh by three feet this one where this primary residence is

[2:30:44] not tucked on the inside of the cluster but is outside on a street face that

[2:30:48] setback also went from 10 to a little bit under 10. um that occurs eight times

[2:30:53] throughout the entire community and then here the backyards generally

[2:30:58] were reduced from We're asked for a reduction from 10 to somewhat less than

[2:31:02] 10 and I wish I could be super specific but it varies because it's not parallel

[2:31:07] um some of them get as high as nine and change so it's just a move away from the

[2:31:12] 10 and that is um everywhere that backyard occurs and

[2:31:15] sometimes the Clusters rotate through the plans so that's highlights where

[2:31:20] we're asking for variance on setbacks okay

[2:31:24] um and then the last clear or well one of the other clarifications I had was

[2:31:28] there were uh 107 adus and 21 of those would be

[2:31:33] over 800 square feet yes and then the the remainder of 86 would be under 850

[2:31:39] square feet is that correct significantly under they're actually

[2:31:41] under 700 so okay um

[2:31:44] and then for staff what other uh well I guess maybe this is for David and I

[2:31:49] think I know the answer to this but I just want to confirm this

[2:31:52] um when we did this specific plan uh I know

[2:31:56] that there were mitigation issues for traffic and

[2:32:01] um uh utilities things like that so they weren't required to go through because

[2:32:06] they're calling them adus and because they're adus we didn't have to do

[2:32:10] anything else with traffic with new units right

[2:32:13] that's correct so we can't require any mitigations for adus but the full

[2:32:19] traffic mitigations for the entire project still apply to pa-13 in all the

[2:32:24] Pas I'm sorry what was the last part all the mitigation measures so those have

[2:32:29] been carried forward from PA 13's map that the first one to this map so

[2:32:35] traffic water sewer all that is this still applies to this map but the 107

[2:32:42] units the traffic generated from that um we can't require any kind of

[2:32:46] mitigation to that traffic okay thank you thanks for clarifying that David I

[2:32:50] appreciate it um I don't have any other questions at this time

[2:32:54] commissioner comma well uh commissioner Christensen uh kind

[2:33:00] of hit on some of my concerns the uh the specific plan for this uh has

[2:33:07] a uh

[2:33:10] a thousand 293 residential units that it applied and

[2:33:17] essentially what this plan does is take the

[2:33:22] 129 and makes it 1 107 but at the same time it splits

[2:33:28] the primary resident with a Adu auxiliary dwelling unit and so I

[2:33:35] guess it's more to Dave again

[2:33:39] what I see is an 85 increase in dwelling units because you're going

[2:33:46] from you're going from 129 to 107 but then

[2:33:51] you're adding 107 in so the Delta is 85 more units and by itself

[2:33:58] on the specific plan with all of these total

[2:34:02] 1293 units might not be significant but if we take

[2:34:08] the next one which might be residential number five pa5 and we end up having a

[2:34:16] adus on that and adus on the others and my point is that if you have a traffic

[2:34:24] study that's based on X number of dwelling units that generate

[2:34:29] X number of trips you have something that's X Plus Y in this case the Y would

[2:34:36] be based on 85 additional drawing units or additional trips

[2:34:43] four or five trips per day per dwelling unit so the mitigation measures become

[2:34:48] somewhat in my mind cloudy if it becomes

[2:34:53] significant to all the other Parcels that become that come before the

[2:34:58] commission so that what you have is basically a small impact here but how

[2:35:04] many more adus will we be doing and does that put into question the X Plus y the

[2:35:11] Y being the additional trips that are generated by these adus

[2:35:18] um well so far we have uh

[2:35:24] four planning areas that are submitted their plans I'm going to plan check and

[2:35:31] none of those none of those have adus well I know you're talking and I I'll

[2:35:37] concede one of these in the specific plan does talk about 80 so I think it's

[2:35:42] maybe a pa5 right so it's already been included in discussion in a specific

[2:35:49] plan for one area but it wasn't discussed here so I don't

[2:35:54] see a significant impact of 85 additional residents generating

[2:36:01] an overwhelming cause to be concerned for mitigation but I'm just wondering if

[2:36:06] that Trend continues for all of the Chandler Ranch and all the old Beachwood

[2:36:11] and stuff that does that call into question

[2:36:15] the mitigation measures that were generated by

[2:36:19] traffic studies that were dependent on the number of dwelling units that now

[2:36:24] have increased by maybe 50 percent right because they'd use yeah

[2:36:31] I understand um

[2:36:33] I think I'll fall back on what my professor used to tell me when I ask

[2:36:37] questions it depends um

[2:36:40] so if the whole if the whole project came in or let's just say three quarters

[2:36:45] of the project came in with adus that would be a significant amount of traffic

[2:36:49] that would be generated there's no doubt about it

[2:36:52] um it's it's a hard it's a really difficult

[2:36:56] question to answer because a lot of the a lot of the mitigations were overridden

[2:37:01] by Council right so they were class one impacts that we could not fully mitigate

[2:37:06] uh they were you know I mean we did we did we required the best they could do

[2:37:12] on some of the traffic impacts but they still didn't reduce whatever the impact

[2:37:18] was back to what what was occurring before

[2:37:22] um the project moved forward you know it's

[2:37:26] one of the difficulties with the California state Adu law

[2:37:31] um we have adus actually we have we permit a lot of adus around town and

[2:37:37] there's no I you know I can't charge traffic impact fees unless they're above

[2:37:41] a certain above a certain size and that's proportional to the size of the

[2:37:45] existing structure so this is a challenge that the state of California

[2:37:49] has given us right I think in this case the roads are all right size I mean

[2:37:54] there is plenty of capacity within the project and on Niblick Road uh Creston

[2:38:00] Road to handle it the excess traffic yeah I looked at lynnae and and saw the

[2:38:06] traffic numbers and the additional traffickers and that's negligible for

[2:38:10] those local roads basically well it's still I mean it's still a

[2:38:14] concern from a traffic impact standpoint um you know I think as as time goes on

[2:38:20] and we see how adus impact the city as a whole we may we may be able to address

[2:38:26] that in our circulation element you know looking at different uh you know looking

[2:38:30] at where we're going what we can expect in the future and mitigating for that as

[2:38:35] we move forward that's one potential way to address that that's not part of this

[2:38:41] plan tonight the uh that's part of the general plan I'm bringing up something

[2:38:45] that's probably Beyond well I mean I think maybe of this just to kind of if I

[2:38:50] could and tell me if I made an error but I think the with the state promulgating

[2:38:55] an Adu um

[2:38:59] requiring us to do adus we cannot mitigate for traffic with

[2:39:04] An approved Adu I think based on what we're seeing

[2:39:09] tonight the state would say that we've actually reduced

[2:39:14] the density by 27 housing units so um because we cannot mitigate for adus

[2:39:23] we and we've reduced from 129 to 107. um

[2:39:31] we've actually reduced the mitigatable if that is a word

[2:39:36] um single family residence on that site now I don't know if I got that right but

[2:39:42] um it's just I think maybe a way to look at it I think that's generally correct

[2:39:46] and basically you've got to kind of understand that for the last 60 years

[2:39:50] with planning law a unit was a unit and typically those units had to cover

[2:39:55] whatever their impacts were and the state basically decided that that wasn't

[2:39:59] working any longer and that there had been a housing crisis of such severity

[2:40:04] created by implementation of those sort of rules they basically just preempted

[2:40:10] those rules which the state had created originally as well and basically said

[2:40:16] we're not going to count adus and that you can build two adus on every single

[2:40:20] family lot in the state so it's not just this project that could increase units

[2:40:25] literally there's tens ten thousand adus that can be built

[2:40:30] within this town without any mitigation measures it's probably permitted on

[2:40:33] existing Lots now yeah exactly so I think so really what you have to think

[2:40:38] about is there is a potential that those units

[2:40:41] create new impacts to traffic Water and Sewer that aren't covered by our

[2:40:45] standard fees and mitigations and basically what the state said is instead

[2:40:51] of the developer having to cover those costs which has been the how we've done

[2:40:55] planning for the last couple decades it's the general Public's going to have

[2:40:59] to cover that cost so if we have a traffic problem at an intersection we're

[2:41:03] not going to lean on the developer to fix it the community is going to have to

[2:41:07] cover that cost I just didn't know if it put into question of the uh

[2:41:14] environmental mitigations that were a part of a specific plan but based on

[2:41:18] what you're telling me the state law says it doesn't yeah the state says

[2:41:22] doesn't adus don't count towards sequa okay they just made that rule up and

[2:41:27] that's the rule now yeah thank you my other question I think you already the

[2:41:32] gentleman already answered that these are not going to be owned by individuals

[2:41:36] they'll be owned by a management or they'll be managed by a manager and so

[2:41:42] the Adu and their primary unit won't have one owner it'll be all the Clusters

[2:41:48] will be under one ownership and they'll rent out or right or lease out each unit

[2:41:54] individually the primary unit and the Adu yes that's the premise Adam if you

[2:42:00] want to add anything to that but that is the premise yeah

[2:42:04] yeah he's spot on no he's absolutely correct okay

[2:42:07] and the uh Adu would have the open parking space the primary residence

[2:42:14] would have the covered space uh two in a garage yeah

[2:42:18] okay that's all the questions I have thank you commissioner

[2:42:23] uh I guess my question is uh with the setbacks and you might have explained it

[2:42:27] but is there an impact to certain like backyards or side yards with the setback

[2:42:33] changes or or those in locations that aren't going to impact like the the end

[2:42:38] user's property essentially so the the

[2:42:44] um variances that we're asking for on the yards do impact the outdoor living

[2:42:48] space of these homes and then that are just they're not specifically called out

[2:42:54] an amount per house in the specific plan but they are generally regarded as this

[2:42:59] yard will belong to this house um and so it does impact that a little

[2:43:04] bit and we've split those spaces up into being some for adus and some for primary

[2:43:11] residences but yes that Dimension from house to fence is is has been reduced

[2:43:16] from 10 to sometimes as little as eight six

[2:43:20] um so it impacts the space a little bit but the the we really wanted to

[2:43:23] illustrate we're used to working in cozy spaces we do a lot of smaller scale

[2:43:27] things and just wanted to show that it is entirely possible to furnish enjoy

[2:43:32] and um uh and live in those spaces even if they're a little more trim than they

[2:43:38] were originally proposed to me sure sure and then uh you mentioned it but I

[2:43:43] wanted how many households and total households will this have and total

[2:43:49] number of parking spots including street parking what was the number there sure

[2:43:53] so it's um and I don't have the added number in my head but it's a total of

[2:43:59] 214 dwelling dwelling units half adus half primary residences each primary

[2:44:04] residence has two covered parking spaces in a garage each accessory dwelling unit

[2:44:08] has one surface space and then there's 121

[2:44:12] um first come first serve guest spaces throughout the community so it's a very

[2:44:17] high total for a residential neighborhood but it is possible guests

[2:44:21] would have to travel from a get like an off street parking fairly far to visit a

[2:44:25] friend or whatever that would be like they would it's a hypothetical

[2:44:28] possibility okay um that's all the questions I have

[2:44:34] commissioner cover rubies thank you sir

[2:44:39] so I was on DRC and the first thing I will say is I'm really happy about the

[2:44:44] fencing change yes in fact I think I was the one that brought it up

[2:44:48] um some kudos to that um Darren could you explain to me just

[2:44:52] real quick the open space policy I understand that open space has to be

[2:44:57] provided for anything over 800 square feet correct so the 80. we're talking

[2:45:01] about the 80 80 uses right so if I'm understanding the idea is that the open

[2:45:08] space they're asking for the open space the contributor to that be the clubhouse

[2:45:12] be the pool area be all these other amenities so to speak right so the open

[2:45:18] space theory is not open space directly adjacent or near the Adu is that correct

[2:45:25] well the private open space I think the intent is that it it be near and be

[2:45:30] there specifically for that unit like we're all used to having right whether

[2:45:36] it's a patio or a balcony or something so again we go back to the the Adu laws

[2:45:42] and what it indicates is that if you have an Adu 800 or less square feet

[2:45:50] the city can't require a yard area if it's going to preclude

[2:45:56] someone from the being able to build that unit they're taking away

[2:46:01] development standards so that makes it easier for people to build accessory

[2:46:06] dwelling units so uh that being said so if it's less than 800 square feet then

[2:46:17] open space private open space for those units does not have to be provided for

[2:46:23] so if it's over 800 which there are 21 that are about 850 then those units is

[2:46:33] that's what really would come down to this discussion with the Planning

[2:46:36] Commission is for the 21 units because technically for the 86 for that are less

[2:46:42] than than 800 what they're showing is possible in

[2:46:47] state the state law and even the city's Adu law would say for those lot units

[2:46:52] less than 800 we wouldn't have to require the private open space they're

[2:46:58] designing a community where there's other places to go for common open space

[2:47:02] but not private for those units the 847 the the 21 that are over the

[2:47:09] 800. I think that's the question is on those where

[2:47:14] then we get into the city's ordinance saying you need to provide uh 200 square

[2:47:20] feet of private open space Darren if I might is is

[2:47:25] um I went back and double checked the data on this and in fact the large Adu

[2:47:29] is with the large primary and it's that one that stretches along the back and it

[2:47:34] actually has um it exceeds the amount of required

[2:47:38] open space adjacent to it that the city's implementation ordinance requires

[2:47:42] so you're seeing it it provides over 200 square feet it does yes 295 and that's

[2:47:48] on the large yes what about the others um the uh the others vary they have

[2:47:55] um the plant twos plant twos are uh a lot thank you very

[2:48:02] much for that diagram um

[2:48:04] so can you go back one more or I can go back one more maybe

[2:48:08] uh yes okay so nope sorry I have to go forward to the

[2:48:13] other one that doesn't have all the art data on it

[2:48:16] um the one right in the middle um sorry image nine

[2:48:21] sorry for being goofy okay so

[2:48:25] um for example this uh Adu has space that would have been the primary

[2:48:31] residences backyard so that's how that works on that one

[2:48:35] which is why his number is very high um this Adu in primary have all of that

[2:48:41] yard stretched out along there and there's it's fenced in the middle

[2:48:45] um so the this Adu has 295 square feet and the primary has a large chunk there

[2:48:50] as well so that's how that works the um these two guys here are are smaller they

[2:48:57] have very little they have a little captured space there in which is um

[2:49:01] that's like 150 square feet so my question would be then on the on

[2:49:07] the unit that's there next to the large unit that has the Adu near the it looks

[2:49:12] like a fence line there or something that has the backyard where's the open

[2:49:16] space for the primary unit It's Kind It's a combination of at grade

[2:49:21] and then and above grade balconies so the primary unit has a balcony there yes

[2:49:26] all the primary units have balconies they do yeah

[2:49:29] so in this in today's presentation you're asking for the commission to make

[2:49:35] an exception or to Grant an exception on the units the Adu Adu units they do not

[2:49:42] have 200 square feet of open space private open space you're asking us to

[2:49:49] allow the clubhouse I just want to make sure I'm clear on what we're being asked

[2:49:53] to do on the open space Theory right so what it ends up being is that

[2:50:00] the units less than 800. don't have to provide it right the units

[2:50:06] over he's indicating he's providing it so he complies he's providing the 200 or

[2:50:12] more square feet on a portion of the adus correct not all of them or is that

[2:50:18] on all of the adus that are over over 800. so over 800 adus square feet they

[2:50:28] have 200 square feet of private open space yes okay

[2:50:33] okay if you if you read the project description that was provided

[2:50:38] it indicates that they're asking for what they indicated was a variant so

[2:50:42] that we're asking for a modification for open space related to adus

[2:50:49] I wanted to give a little more specifics that

[2:50:53] for the all the for most of them that are over the less than 800.

[2:50:58] the ordinances don't require the open space because of the size

[2:51:03] come to find out Daniel did looked at or David I'm sorry looked at his uh plans

[2:51:11] and indicated that they do or they are providing private open space for the

[2:51:17] adus that are over 800 in these plants Okay so

[2:51:23] we're not necessarily needing anything specific from the Planning Commission on

[2:51:28] open space we were able to kind of through this process determine how each

[2:51:32] of it was done however just like the question of

[2:51:36] traffic or parking or how what are these impacts of all these units we still want

[2:51:41] these folks to have a a place to to go have you know take their dog do

[2:51:47] different things that's the discussion of the added amenities because the

[2:51:53] specific plan designed for PA 13 didn't have a clubhouse didn't have a fitness

[2:51:59] didn't have the dog park all those amenities that are being provided here

[2:52:04] so if there was a request for the Planning

[2:52:07] Commission to not allow or not require the open space

[2:52:12] the the the the exchange would be these added amenities that weren't originally

[2:52:18] required for the plan was the discussion but technically they're showing that

[2:52:24] they are providing the the Open Space by the size of the adus as well as the

[2:52:31] larger ones actually physically providing that

[2:52:37] okay I appreciate that I think we're on the same page I hope so and I would just

[2:52:42] to be clear I was only referencing the ones that were over 800 because I again

[2:52:47] just want to make sure we're clear and again just for clarity Emergency

[2:52:50] Services has reviewed everything they're good with the turn radius radiuses and

[2:52:55] all of that good stuff within the Clusters correct and they're actually we

[2:52:58] have engineered plans because they're concurrently we're working on Final maps

[2:53:03] we're working on uh Improvement plans and those have all been reviewed by

[2:53:07] Emergency Services awesome um and then last comment during DRC

[2:53:13] um I had made a comment about solar and it was something that you guys were

[2:53:17] going to maybe investigate a little bit or look into yes sir no no changes to

[2:53:22] that the um oh you know I did before I speak I got I

[2:53:27] I got confused um no I can yeah I can speak to that we

[2:53:32] we are adding solar out of the problem okay that's what I thought and I we're

[2:53:36] working at two at the same time I know that I I couldn't I got them briefly

[2:53:39] confused for them communicated again will be a huge part

[2:53:45] of the problem yes okay so that is being added yes okay all right awesome all

[2:53:51] right no more questions commissioner Copeland yes thank you just a few things

[2:53:56] um What's the timing between the construction of these units and the

[2:53:59] Improvement of linear Road Adam do you know that one

[2:54:04] that that's a tough one because Danny brose is the one who's doing the

[2:54:08] Improvement to to the uh public roads um so I I really don't know the answer

[2:54:14] to that question um

[2:54:17] that's a really actually great question that I would love to know the answer to

[2:54:21] as well let me let me phrase it a different way

[2:54:25] to staff would we issue full permits including accuracy permits without that

[2:54:29] road Improvement occurring Mark can you speak a little more into

[2:54:34] your mind oh sorry oh please did you catch the

[2:54:37] question but I think we understand your question okay

[2:54:40] uh David city engineer just to read just to um make sure I'm clear on the

[2:54:46] question it was about are we going to issue site

[2:54:50] Improvement permits without Road permits being

[2:54:53] issued Mary just so I can just unclear let me rephrase a little bit we've

[2:54:58] looked at some really attractive sections for Linnea showing all the

[2:55:01] public uses within the right-of-way the distance from the curb line to the fence

[2:55:05] to these units does that happen as a package are we going to get houses are

[2:55:08] going to be built with existing Linnea for some period of time

[2:55:13] so the developer uh Olson 212 Danny brose

[2:55:18] has released plans for both Sherwood so continuing on

[2:55:25] Sherwood down um

[2:55:27] down to PA 15 maybe so we can show that yeah there we go that'd be great

[2:55:32] um so this is actually the code right here it's currently designed to about

[2:55:36] this point here they're coming in with the rest of this design uh actually

[2:55:40] comes around the corner and comes down to Hanson at the same time Park View

[2:55:45] Lane will need to be completed here before any of these

[2:55:50] are occupied same with Sherwood Road and Airport Road and they've currently bid

[2:55:57] these out and they're moving towards construction and they've provided

[2:56:04] uh they've got a contractor to do the work so it's it all has to happen

[2:56:08] together because they have because they have to build the roads to get the water

[2:56:12] to pa-13 and to get the sewer so it all has to happen at the same time and

[2:56:18] they're moving forward with that okay great that's the key to the answer I

[2:56:21] guess thank you um

[2:56:24] Rental Community managed by an another entity will they require the use of

[2:56:29] garages for vehicles um Adam you could back me up on that one

[2:56:33] but the way yeah one yes is the short answer to that yes absolutely can I just

[2:56:39] want to mention one thing in a um in a managed Community uh the um it's an

[2:56:46] interest of the owners who are attracting residents to the community to

[2:56:52] have quite strict standards about what people can do the question came up in

[2:56:56] DRC can somebody park in front of their garage door and that's one of the most

[2:57:00] strictly enforced things your lease agreement for a renter and or your HOA

[2:57:04] agreement for someone else addresses those types of things to maintain a high

[2:57:08] level of I'm going to call it livability even though that's kind of cliched

[2:57:13] good

[2:57:15] okay thank you because I guess the concern I had was and I'll show I'm not

[2:57:21] a native to this state but my observation is that disproportionately

[2:57:24] people use their garages here for storage rather than for vehicles and

[2:57:28] should that occur in this kind of environment I can see the hundred and

[2:57:31] whatever street spaces being gone immediately and I can also see Adu

[2:57:36] people that will have two vehicles who will need one of those Street spaces so

[2:57:39] I'm just wondering how all the parking truly fits in the real world and I think

[2:57:43] the fact that it's managed and owned by an entity gives you a club that you

[2:57:47] don't typically have and you can require that to occur so I think that's

[2:57:50] encouraging

[2:57:53] um help me understand a little bit so the previous plan that was part of the

[2:57:58] specific plan for this neighborhood showed a couple of larger neighborhood

[2:58:03] park areas they were diagrammed in green they were labeled as neighborhood parks

[2:58:07] but from what I could find in going back to the specific plan they really weren't

[2:58:10] yeah it's those areas it really wasn't articulators to what those were right

[2:58:14] when you looked at the Turtle Creek plan and when you looked at the Overlook

[2:58:17] there were very specific diagrammatic things about what was going into those

[2:58:20] Parks as well as listings of things so I could understand how that occurred when

[2:58:25] I look at the bedroom compositions here plan two is three bedrooms Plan Three is

[2:58:29] three bedrooms those are family units to me they're going to be at a reasonably

[2:58:33] affordable price point presumably for the motor Court units obviously the Adu

[2:58:37] is adding yet another threshold of affordability and all of that's great

[2:58:41] but I see kids in these places and I'm not sure how the resort style meets the

[2:58:47] needs of all of the kids pools great where's the open space do they go to

[2:58:51] Turtle Creek Park they cross a fairly major significant road to get there

[2:58:56] help me understand you've put in these pocket Parts which are but Linnea how

[2:59:02] has that worked for families who want to recreate it we talked about Open Spaces

[2:59:06] really the private Open Spaces not immediately contiguous to some of these

[2:59:10] units yes fenced backyards and so forth but where is there some room to roam

[2:59:15] around here does it have to go to Turtle Creek or how is that accommodated

[2:59:20] can I jump in and yesterday um so so what we need to remember also

[2:59:26] is we are a very small glimpse of a master plan Community PA 13 is one

[2:59:31] Community we have out of 26 where you've got you know five miles of walking

[2:59:35] trails you've got pickleball courts you've got basketball courts you have

[2:59:39] wide open space and vast majority of the entire master plan community so if if

[2:59:45] someone like a family is really looking for you know uh just grass to run around

[2:59:51] in the pocket parks at our first on our PA 13 is not enough uh you can easily

[2:59:57] cross the street and now you've got Acres upon Acres of open Lush Fields

[3:00:03] um you've got beautiful wineries uh of grapes that are going to be grown by

[3:00:07] Danny Rose and the association um and you've you've got that right

[3:00:11] right there within the whole master plan community

[3:00:16] okay thank you I expected that would be the response because there is a lot of

[3:00:20] open space with Turtle Creek a question on the Overlook which lies fairly close

[3:00:25] to this as well it's listed as member parking on the site plan so I assume

[3:00:29] there's a membership component to that that is a paid component to that as part

[3:00:33] of the specific plan are these people who rent these units members that can

[3:00:37] use the Overlook facilities also for recreation

[3:00:41] that is correct okay without additional fear it's built into their lease

[3:00:44] agreements it's built into their lease agreements

[3:00:47] okay that's great that's another measure of open space that's helpful great thank

[3:00:51] you I think that's all my questions for now

[3:00:55] um I do have a question we have commented on the ability of these to be

[3:01:01] sold the potential

[3:01:04] um and if that is with those adus be deep restricted to be

[3:01:10] remain rental as part of the um you know that building unit

[3:01:18] um or would they end up being sold separately and then the Adu is gone

[3:01:24] so so per state law we are not allowed to subdivide the Adu from the primary

[3:01:30] residence so if if they ever were to be sold which

[3:01:35] um we've even talked about putting a deed restriction where the entire

[3:01:38] Community would have to be sold as one Community uh to ease to ease the

[3:01:42] council's kind of concern on that matter um but but if if for whatever reason

[3:01:47] that doesn't happen and let's say you know 20 years from now a developer buys

[3:01:52] a community and wants to sell individual Lots they only want to sell half the

[3:01:56] community they would have to sell it as per the subdivision map that's being

[3:02:00] approved great thank you

[3:02:04] um so

[3:02:06] we essentially have taken away 22 units to those 22 units then go back into the

[3:02:14] pool of units available to the channel or specific plan or do they go back that

[3:02:20] is actually correct yeah no that's and we're talking with shea right now who is

[3:02:25] essentially wanting those units to add to their pas

[3:02:31] um and now for staff I'm going to geek out a little bit

[3:02:35] um this 107 adus

[3:02:40] will add to our Arena allocation correct

[3:02:46] um do we know where they will fall will they fall in the low or even moderate

[3:02:53] um on the arena scale

[3:02:56] I think it's adus by Design or the lower income is that correct I think in the

[3:03:02] housing element there's certain assumptions where certain percentages

[3:03:06] are allocated to moderate and certain to low so we will just that's the

[3:03:11] assumption is as they're built or they'll just fall into those categories

[3:03:15] by default based on the market studies that were done during the um housing

[3:03:19] element preparation I would probably guess they end up in the moderate

[3:03:24] well I think we're just going to use what the market rate assumptions were

[3:03:28] when the housing element was done so if we produce 100 we'll look at that market

[3:03:33] study that was done and go okay this percent qualifies for low this is uh

[3:03:38] moderate and that's what we'll file we aren't going to go back and try to see

[3:03:43] what things are actually renting for

[3:03:47] okay so even though it may not be low um we would assign it low yes so the

[3:03:56] housing element when it was certified made certain assumptions that Adu

[3:04:02] production was going to be spread among these categories so we'll just follow

[3:04:07] that through the whole housing element cycle thank you

[3:04:10] um and that's all the geeking out I'm going to do to this evening

[3:04:14] um so um open it up to public comment and

[3:04:18] since we're ultimately almost lonely in the chamber um

[3:04:26] hearing none I will close public comment and bring it back to the commission for

[3:04:31] comments um commissioner Marla any comments

[3:04:35] no comments no commissioner Conley any further comments well I just thought of

[3:04:39] something kind of minor but we're all kind of going to electric cars I was

[3:04:43] wondering if they'll be 240 in the garage that's maybe too detailed to ask

[3:04:49] that with solar power maybe 240 level 2 Charging for electric cars

[3:04:55] I suspect that would be a great amenity for the folks running the place and that

[3:04:59] may be a thought yeah yeah

[3:05:04] commissioner Christmas thank you

[3:05:09] um some of my comments are

[3:05:13] I like the design it's a nice design I'm I am disappointed in

[3:05:19] um the compactness of it I feel like it's gone away from a little bit of the

[3:05:23] spirit of the specific plan unfortunately when the specific plan was

[3:05:27] approved the new Adu laws weren't in place uh in the in the form that they

[3:05:33] are today uh which is honestly taken a lot away

[3:05:37] from the city and the way they I feel have the ability to manage certain

[3:05:41] things so for me that's that's a um a disappointment uh I am glad to hear that

[3:05:48] the larger adus do get their 200 square feet of private uh private open space I

[3:05:55] don't believe that common open space particularly in this development

[3:06:00] um is actually very accommodating as one of the other Commissioners pointed out

[3:06:05] there's really not a lot of park space and you're asking families to really uh

[3:06:09] Transit out of the community whether it's walking biking or what have you to

[3:06:14] another location which that that Community was designed for that which I

[3:06:20] uh I believe was a good concept I'm having a really hard time with this

[3:06:25] density for several reasons um the variance allows that to happen is

[3:06:32] what it seems like to me um and as a planning commissioner we

[3:06:37] don't get many um

[3:06:39] many things to say about a track like this as they circumvent and add a

[3:06:45] tremendous amount of units which I wouldn't say that the city doesn't need

[3:06:48] the units we do need the units and I was really hoping that this project would be

[3:06:53] again um affordable housing for people to buy

[3:06:56] uh I think that that was something I was really hoping for with the specific plan

[3:07:01] as well as I was many people commented with me publicly about that and they

[3:07:05] were excited that we would have that opportunity which it doesn't seem like

[3:07:09] in some of these cases that's going to happen

[3:07:12] um I'm not in favor of allowing for their

[3:07:15] variances I think that it alludes to us

[3:07:21] being in favor of the impact that this will will give the city and personally I

[3:07:26] think I get it it's a smart work around in a lot of ways

[3:07:30] um and I'm not opposed to adus I'm a big fan of adus but in this case I feel like

[3:07:36] we've just gone too far but it's not because the adus I think it's because

[3:07:41] the compactness the tightness of this development

[3:07:45] um the other aspect is the concerning thing

[3:07:48] with the overall introduction of so many uh homes and

[3:07:53] again this is something that the state has taken away from the city uh but you

[3:07:58] know planning fees uh the impact on on our infrastructure our water sewer uh

[3:08:04] the streets and and I understand that um uh you know David's point that that you

[3:08:10] know we can handle it but can we handle the next you know 100 200 300 adus

[3:08:15] potentially um don't know and and maybe that's

[3:08:19] something that I will live to see but um in my in my view I'm not in favor of the

[3:08:26] of the variances for the setbacks and um I do like the design style I think

[3:08:32] it's a very nice design style I like that they went with just the modern

[3:08:35] Farmhouse I like that they're using some different elevations to do that some of

[3:08:40] the other design features like front decks as open space I don't know I've

[3:08:45] seen a lot of houses nobody ever really uses that five feet of space but um I

[3:08:50] could be wrong in that as well too so those are my comments at this point in

[3:08:54] time and I'm welcome to uh to hear anybody as Elsa's comments

[3:08:58] commissioner kobler

[3:09:02] um I was on DRC when I saw this as well and and actually the staff report talked

[3:09:07] about how DRC was generally in favor and I think that's an accurate statement but

[3:09:11] we also sent it to the full Planning Commission because there's a lot of

[3:09:13] details associated with this thing that needed to be discussed by six or seven

[3:09:17] of us instead of just three of us part of that was born from some of the

[3:09:22] frustration I have and it's not geared towards this project or this applicant

[3:09:25] at all but it's with the mandates by the states that we're forced into certain

[3:09:29] things I won't pontificate on that it's already been covered but it leads me to

[3:09:34] have concerns about from a density perspective not not counting the adus as

[3:09:38] a density in numeric form but simply the physical context of putting these units

[3:09:43] together the Open Spaces the driveways the parking spaces the entries the

[3:09:47] distance and walking dentures and so forth this is a very very compressed

[3:09:51] compact development more so than we've seen

[3:09:54] um I I think it's analogous some of the things you see in slow but I don't think

[3:09:58] Paso has seen a development that will be this quite and I'll use the word intense

[3:10:02] instead of dense purposely and so I I get down to the point of looking at the

[3:10:07] the variances are being requested and I think in one half I say to myself we can

[3:10:12] actually hold this project to standards which may mean a change in the atus

[3:10:17] then I look at the numbers and the numbers the variance that we're talking

[3:10:20] about you know it's a foot here or there it's it's a foot and a half

[3:10:24] in this spot and it's 22 inches in this spot and I'm just paraphrasing and I

[3:10:29] really have a problem saying that that's enough of a discrepancy that I would say

[3:10:33] that this project doesn't work so I think it works I I think the design team

[3:10:37] has done a good job designing as best you can within again what I think it is

[3:10:43] a very tight community and it's one that I I will support but I do have some

[3:10:48] significant concerns along the lines of what my other fellow Commissioners or

[3:10:52] commissioner has outlined with the the overall aspects of the project itself

[3:10:56] and the way it works and feels

[3:11:00] and commissioner cover Ruiz thank you yeah it's interesting because I was also

[3:11:04] on DRC and I'm remembering a lot of the conversation that took place and uh the

[3:11:11] dense nature of the entire project I in fact I literally remember making the

[3:11:15] comment where are these kids going to play are they going to be playing in the

[3:11:19] sidewalk and they're going to be playing in the street in the parking area I was

[3:11:23] concerned then as I am now that it is a lot in a very compact area however

[3:11:32] affordable housing is something that we direly direly need in Paso Robles I do

[3:11:38] like commissioner Christensen mentioned I do wish that these were homes for sale

[3:11:43] because that's another issue we have is people being able to afford to buy in

[3:11:48] our community we need to keep the people here and in order to keep them here they

[3:11:53] got to be able to afford to purchase and I wish that were the case and I think

[3:11:58] that's just going to be a battle we're going to have for a long time coming

[3:12:02] The Farmhouse look I like it I think the design of the units I like it's it's not

[3:12:08] the units themselves that it that I have an issue with it is how compact

[3:12:12] everything is kind of put in the area and and for the sake of of continuously

[3:12:19] echoing what fellow Commissioners have already alluded to it's just it's a lot

[3:12:23] in one spot and and not sure in this case like

[3:12:28] commissioner kogler has mentioned you know that this minor setback request

[3:12:33] okay is that a make or break type scenario I don't think so I think it's

[3:12:38] livable um I just wish there was more space I

[3:12:43] mean it's such a nice area I wish there was more space just in general and

[3:12:49] everything wasn't so compact um

[3:12:52] and I guess I'll leave it at that

[3:12:56] so I agree with many of the comments from

[3:13:00] my fellow Commissioners um I do think that if if Paso Robles is

[3:13:06] going to get affordable housing um I think we need to think about a more

[3:13:11] dense Community um and it may not be something we're

[3:13:15] used to may not be something we like but it may be some some place where we have

[3:13:19] to go um

[3:13:22] I am not fond of the state promulgating the Adu rules

[3:13:26] um I think Paso Robles is being punished along

[3:13:30] with other communities for some of those communities that had

[3:13:35] exclusionary building practices and that's

[3:13:40] disappointing um but in the end I I do compliment the

[3:13:45] applicant for thinking ever so slightly outside of the box and being able to

[3:13:50] increase the density of their project legally significantly

[3:13:55] um I I think that is um a well-thought plan so with that I

[3:14:02] will entertain a motion

[3:14:11] okay I'm happy to make a motion

[3:14:16] commissioner cover rubies uh I move that we approved draft resolution a approving

[3:14:22] vesting tentative track map 3213 and

[3:14:28] pd22-166 subject to the site-specific conditions of approval

[3:14:33] we have a motion do we have a second I'll say

[3:14:37] any further comment uh roll call please

[3:14:42] commissioner cover rubius aye commissioner Connolly

[3:14:48] aye commissioner Marlowe aye

[3:14:51] commissioner Christensen no commissioner kobler

[3:14:57] aye chairperson Neil

[3:15:00] aye motion passes five to one

[3:15:12] all right

[3:15:19] I think we're on to the consent agenda as soon as I can get to the agenda

[3:15:30] um I do have um a clarification for February 6 DRC

[3:15:35] meeting I believe that was the meeting where I was having incredible technical

[3:15:38] difficulties and I didn't actually join the meeting so if we can um

[3:15:45] line me out that would be great so do I have a motion to approve the

[3:15:50] consent so moved I'll second that any discussion

[3:15:57] roll call please

[3:16:01] [Applause]

[3:16:06] I was getting that correction tracked okay who was the first on that cogler

[3:16:10] Christensen

[3:16:16] all right commissioner kogler aye commissioner Christensen aye

[3:16:21] commissioner Connolly aye commissioner Marlow aye commissioner code rubius aye

[3:16:25] chairperson Neil aye passes 6-0 with the amendment and on to other reports

[3:16:32] passable street ad hoc I I see that there's a meeting next week

[3:16:38] two weeks 27th 27th of the month so I suspect

[3:16:44] there's not an update yeah we're working on that we do have a

[3:16:49] vacancy on that ad hoc committee so we are looking to appoint a member to serve

[3:16:54] on that and attend that next meeting I'd be willing to do that yeah

[3:17:00] anybody else like to attend sir

[3:17:04] saying none hmm

[3:17:08] Mr Christensen you're on it

[3:17:11] so excited thank you guys

[3:17:15] um well we're already almost done that's why I'm excited I'm super excited

[3:17:20] if you're getting one because you think we're almost done

[3:17:26] yeah famous last words [Laughter]

[3:17:32] constraints and opportunities committee zoning code update report I can hardly

[3:17:37] wait to read that yeah no no report tonight we're continuing to just work

[3:17:41] with a consultant on that so development Review Committee rotation

[3:17:46] schedule uh March is cochlear Neil and Christensen we were lucky enough to get

[3:17:52] a reprieve yesterday um but any conflicts in the next month

[3:17:56] or two the only conflict I have I believe is in April and I want to say

[3:18:01] it's the 17th

[3:18:06] yes it would be the 17th I won't be available for that one if

[3:18:10] someone can cover for me

[3:18:16] I I can do that okay thank you commissioner

[3:18:21] and I might be getting way ahead of myself but I I am scheduled to be out of

[3:18:26] town on Monday the 16th of October holy smokes yep I know but we can wait for

[3:18:32] that if we need to but I just already know because I just booked my airfare

[3:18:35] yesterday

[3:18:41] for that we sleep well at night though I can

[3:18:46] probably cover that one for you and now on to planning Commissioners

[3:18:52] comments um commissioner Marla

[3:18:55] uh no comments just uh appreciate being here thanks commissioner Connell yeah

[3:19:01] thank you for uh allowing some mistakes for for a new commissioners

[3:19:06] commissioner Christensen I want to say great job you guys did

[3:19:11] well so I don't think there's really any mistakes your first time is there I

[3:19:14] don't think there you can have as many as you want really yeah I always keep in

[3:19:19] score no no I haven't kept scoring I keep making them all the time and I want

[3:19:23] to thank all the rest Commissioners uh there was a lot on the on the on the

[3:19:26] agenda tonight and I think we did a good job so thank you

[3:19:30] commissioner kogler I also would compliment the two new members you did

[3:19:35] your homework you really jumped in you were appropriate with your discussions

[3:19:38] your points and welcome aboard commissioner cover yeah I was at the uh

[3:19:43] at the dinner and got a chance to meet you guys it was a pleasure meeting you

[3:19:47] but uh welcome aboard officially so appreciate it and I would like to Echo

[3:19:52] the same and again [Music]

[3:19:55] give a sincere gratitude to commissioner kogler for spending two years in the

[3:20:00] seat um

[3:20:02] uh we we all appreciate it very much I think it was a good two years of great

[3:20:07] very well-run meetings um and again thank you so much

[3:20:13] um staff comments got a couple quick things we would also

[3:20:17] like to welcome the new Commissioners congratulations

[3:20:19] um this was a tough agenda tonight so everybody did really well on that and

[3:20:24] the new chair congratulations as well um we do have the Planning Commission

[3:20:28] Academy coming up Marcy is that all coordinated

[3:20:32] we have Commissioners Marlow and Connolly signed

[3:20:36] up I'm working with our finance department to get everything all tied up

[3:20:40] you know in a nice bow for you so once I have that I will get that over to you

[3:20:44] but we do have you at least booked at a place to stay so far so

[3:20:49] and that is a really great conference I think you folks will you guys will learn

[3:20:53] a ton um but I think I went my first year and

[3:20:58] I've been able to pry away time since but it really is a useful time

[3:21:04] and where is it this year oh I'm sorry

[3:21:09] actually Disneyland

[3:21:13] it's that close all right

[3:21:18] a couple other things just um you've probably all been noticing that the

[3:21:23] river's been at record high levels on and off for the last couple weeks we

[3:21:28] have been monitoring that closely we've been periodically activating the

[3:21:32] Emergency Operations Center we thought it was going to flood today it looks

[3:21:36] like it didn't get that high but we're going to watch it next week there's

[3:21:40] another round of storms coming through I think it in January it hit basically 32

[3:21:47] feet at the 13th Street Bridge which is basically a 100 year flood level

[3:21:53] last week it hit 29 feet so it was just at the base flood level So based on that

[3:22:00] we do have evacuation protocols now for all the neighborhoods that are kind of

[3:22:04] right next to it both the industrial and residential neighborhoods so we're

[3:22:08] hoping that you know that's the highest that we will we will have seen those are

[3:22:13] records that we haven't seen since like 95 or 69 but this is an unusual year but

[3:22:19] we're monitoring that so other things going on your next

[3:22:24] meeting will be on March 28th so we've got a new software system for digital

[3:22:32] um distribution and production of agendas the council's been using it for

[3:22:38] about a month or two now the next agenda will be the first test for the Planning

[3:22:42] Commission you won't actually notice a difference but it does change some stuff

[3:22:46] in terms of how we produce it also makes a lot easier to distribute and view the

[3:22:52] agenda digitally I know we've had discussions in the past about digital

[3:22:55] agenda packets for the commission so that's probably something we'll want to

[3:22:59] revisit after we've gotten this new escribe system up and running so just be

[3:23:05] aware things might look a little different next time fonts and things

[3:23:08] like that that's why that is um other projects on that agenda I think

[3:23:14] we're going to have the annual General plan report for you to look at we have a

[3:23:19] multi-family residential project North Spring Street that's scheduled looks

[3:23:24] like a mini storage on Nutwood will likely be on the agenda and then the red

[3:23:29] tail two apartments on Rolling Hills and Creston Road may be on the agenda as

[3:23:34] well so it should be another healthy agenda for you all

[3:23:37] and any other comments uh District tonight uh this pa-13

[3:23:43] there will be other projects like it with adus there will be other projects

[3:23:49] like it that could stay at the plant at the DRC level

[3:23:52] just this project came up because of the request for setback reductions and

[3:23:59] things if it didn't need setback reductions it's possible it could have

[3:24:03] just stayed at the DRC so just keep that in mind we are going to have other uh

[3:24:08] planning areas with similar requests and uh we the other one that's going to

[3:24:16] be coming up is that planning area I think it's uh 15 and 18 Shea Homes there

[3:24:23] are more of your six or seven thousand square foot Lots single family home type

[3:24:27] development so I think that'll be the next project probably probably within a

[3:24:32] month or so that'll be coming to PRC and then just one final item the

[3:24:38] Planning Commission approved that Thorndike development plan on Wisteria

[3:24:42] and germane we did get an appeal for one of the conditions of approval so we're

[3:24:48] working on that for the next Council agenda so we do expect that appeal to be

[3:24:52] heard next week at city council and we'll keep you apprised at the results

[3:24:55] on that that conclude status report great thank you very much do I have a

[3:25:00] motion to adjourn to adjourn and let's just all say I as a second

[3:25:08] thank you very much everybody

March 14, 2023, Paso Robles Planning Commission Meeting

Transcript