[0:00] good all right looks like we got

[0:03] everybody gathered I apologize for not

[0:05] being able to be there with you in

[0:07] person uh this evening uh but I think

[0:10] for the most part we're just going to be

[0:12] receiving information and uh providing

[0:14] some feedback at the end so I'm I'm sure

[0:17] we can all conduct ourselves fine uh in

[0:20] my absence here uh with that Jeff can

[0:23] you please call the

[0:25] role yes councelor maon pres councelor

[0:28] Smallwood

[0:32] oh she uh she's excused thanks thank you

[0:35] mayor uh councelor Sheldon here counc

[0:38] Walker here councelor exner here

[0:40] councelor Hokinson here mayor pulam here

[0:45] um please note that um Tyler uh councel

[0:48] did inform me Tyler deemed informed me

[0:51] this morning uh that he has decided to

[0:54] go ahead and put his name in the uh in

[0:56] the ring here uh to be our next city

[0:59] manager uh so with that in mind I've

[1:02] asked uh Jeff opara to kind of uh and I

[1:05] think I always brutal brutalize your

[1:07] name Jeff I apologize uh but I've asked

[1:10] Jeff to kind of Staff the meeting for us

[1:13] uh this evening uh so Jeff will you go

[1:15] ahead and take us through the

[1:18] presentations sure thank you

[1:20] mayor uh Council I'm pleased to

[1:22] introduce Eric Jensen who is the

[1:24] principal of Jensen strategies LLC uh

[1:26] the city retains Jensen strategies to

[1:28] manage our recruitment process process

[1:30] for the search for our new city manager

[1:34] uh Jensen strategies has conducted a

[1:36] very thorough process so far they've

[1:38] already offered a public input

[1:40] opportunity for the community back on

[1:41] June 1st they've sent an input survey to

[1:44] All City staff and they've conducted uh

[1:47] one-on-one stakeholder interviews with

[1:49] uh all the counselors and all the

[1:51] department heads um all of these efforts

[1:54] have been centered around the question

[1:55] of what are the attributes you're

[1:57] looking to see in sy's next city manager

[2:00] well the result of that work is before

[2:02] you tonight you have the draft position

[2:05] profile which includes hiring standards

[2:07] and criteria as well as policy

[2:09] directives for the new city manager it

[2:11] also includes hiring procedures and a

[2:14] schedule and so the purpose of tonight's

[2:16] work session is to allow the opport the

[2:20] council an opportunity to discuss these

[2:22] documents make changes or suggest

[2:24] changes if you deem them

[2:27] necessary um but per state law formal

[2:30] adoption of these documents is required

[2:32] at a regular meeting with a public

[2:33] comment opportunity if the council

[2:35] wishes to conduct the actual finalist

[2:39] interviews uh and deliberations in

[2:42] executive session uh which we recommend

[2:44] at the end of this process so to do

[2:46] those things in executive session you

[2:47] have to go through these uh steps here

[2:50] at the beginning with public comment

[2:52] opportunity so unless there are any

[2:54] questions about any of that um happy to

[2:56] throw it over to Eric Jensen

[3:01] okay thank you Jeff I I don't know how

[3:03] close I have to get to the microphone

[3:04] you're fine okay you're good okay good

[3:07] uh some places I go to they they

[3:09] practically make you swallow the

[3:10] microphone so I always ask um thank you

[3:16] Jeff and uh thank you mayor and councel

[3:19] uh great to be here today um Jeff that

[3:22] was probably one of the best intros uh

[3:24] that we've had in one of these sessions

[3:26] so thanks very much you covered a lot of

[3:28] bases I was going to cover so

[3:31] um so uh first of all thank you for

[3:34] giving us the opportunity to uh conduct

[3:37] this recruitment uh we appreciate the

[3:39] opportunity we're honored that uh you've

[3:41] entrusted us with that um and also thank

[3:43] you for the time that you've put into

[3:45] this in advance and doing the individual

[3:47] interviews uh which has given a lot of

[3:50] fodder for what we uh produced for you

[3:53] today so um as Jeff said uh the the

[3:58] purpose of this work session is to

[4:01] review these documents uh that we have

[4:04] uh drafted for you and uh to get any

[4:07] feedback that you might have uh prior to

[4:10] adopting uh adopting the documents uh on

[4:14] June

[4:15] 20th the um we also at the end want to

[4:20] talk a little bit about um the salary

[4:23] recommendations um we've done some

[4:25] comparables and looked at those and we

[4:28] have a recommendation for for you with

[4:30] regard to the range that you might want

[4:32] to advertise for we'll get to that at

[4:34] the

[4:34] end um so as Jeff mentioned uh there

[4:40] were a number of things that went into

[4:42] the to the uh information that created

[4:45] this document and of course the

[4:47] interviews there were 18 interviews

[4:50] seven of course with all of you and then

[4:53] uh 11 uh with uh staff so uh in addition

[4:58] to that we had staff survey as Jeff

[5:01] mentioned uh we had 17 responses in the

[5:04] staff survey uh we did a community uh

[5:08] survey as well online we had three

[5:10] responses there and we did give the

[5:13] opportunity for uh Community uh comment

[5:16] online uh at a uh facilitated uh session

[5:20] uh but unfortunately no one uh came to

[5:23] that

[5:24] so the a few points about uh the profile

[5:29] um

[5:30] this document the profile which is

[5:33] referred to as appendix a uh in your

[5:36] packet is um an important document for a

[5:40] number of reasons so as uh Jeff

[5:43] mentioned uh you do need to adopt uh a

[5:47] profile uh in order for you to be able

[5:49] to hold executive session on this

[5:50] recruitment going forward um but even

[5:54] more so um we also use this document to

[5:58] set the criteria by which we evaluate

[6:02] candidates all the way through the

[6:03] process so we use it uh to establish the

[6:07] criteria for the applications we use it

[6:10] uh for the criteria for all of the uh

[6:13] all of the interviews that are done all

[6:15] the way through the process uh because

[6:17] we want to stick to what you want in the

[6:21] next city

[6:22] manager um you'll note that with regard

[6:27] to if you've read through the document

[6:29] which I'm sure you have um you'll note

[6:33] that maybe some of the points that you

[6:35] brought up with us aren't in there and

[6:39] when we're doing these interviews we're

[6:40] looking for a Nexus a Nexus of opinion

[6:44] so that we can find out where is the

[6:48] commonality uh in what people are

[6:50] looking for and then we try to thread

[6:53] that needle uh as as closely as we

[6:57] can um

[7:00] we also uh I also want to make mention

[7:04] that uh as you read through that

[7:07] profile uh I've had other councils say

[7:11] when they've looked at the profile well

[7:13] it's it looks like it we're looking for

[7:16] a unicorn and um and to a certain degree

[7:21] uh you are um and you're not unique in

[7:25] that regard uh but what we want in that

[7:28] profile is

[7:30] uh what is does your ideal candidate

[7:32] look look like or what what does your

[7:34] ideal candidates attributes

[7:36] have uh or candidate have attributes

[7:40] that candidates have yeah

[7:42] uh um

[7:45] and how many of those boxes can we check

[7:48] off so we're going to we're looking for

[7:51] the person that we can check the most

[7:54] boxes off as as humanly

[7:58] possible all right

[8:00] um before I go start going through the

[8:03] documents uh any uh initial

[8:07] questions okay I'll dive right into it

[8:11] so you have in your packet uh after the

[8:13] staff report uh you have uh the overview

[8:16] sheet uh the adoption of official

[8:19] position documents and that's just

[8:21] explaining why you're going through this

[8:24] uh process of uh adopting these two

[8:27] documents uh following that you have

[8:30] appendix a and

[8:33] um let me kind of walk through what we

[8:36] have here um and by the way the other

[8:38] thing I meant to mention is that we use

[8:42] the profile to generate the recruitment

[8:44] brochure

[8:46] so all the M material the attributes

[8:50] that you're looking for will go into the

[8:53] brochure along with other information

[8:55] about the community and so forth so um

[8:59] so when it came to minimum education uh

[9:02] and experience uh we're suggesting that

[9:06] you require a bachelor's degree in

[9:07] public administration planning political

[9:09] science related field and at least three

[9:12] years of upper level government

[9:14] management

[9:15] experience um and of course we always

[9:18] have uh the language of equivalent

[9:21] combination of Education experience may

[9:23] be considered because sometimes you do

[9:25] get that one candidate that has other

[9:29] ways of fulfilling those

[9:31] requirements uh we also suggest that you

[9:34] put down preferred education and

[9:37] experience as well and when we get to

[9:40] doing criteria this will translate to

[9:43] more points for candidates if they meet

[9:46] some of these uh preferred criteria and

[9:49] that in includes a an advanced degree in

[9:51] public administration uh such as an

[9:54] MPA um and five or more years of

[9:57] increasingly responsible public sector

[10:00] experience um previous Service as a city

[10:04] manager uh and our training uh in

[10:09] Economic Development and growth

[10:11] management is highly

[10:13] desired um and experience uh working in

[10:16] Oregon is also beneficial given the

[10:19] unique uh uh the unique uh elements that

[10:23] make up Oregon uh Oregon law

[10:27] so then we get into the you break in any

[10:30] time or sure uh what I would suggest is

[10:33] if you have clarification questions uh

[10:37] break in and then but otherwise at the

[10:39] end I'll come back and ask for comments

[10:41] if that's all right

[10:43] counselor means I have to have a memory

[10:46] so you got

[10:46] [Music]

[10:48] a I might fall asleep

[10:50] [Music]

[10:51] though I I did also you might uh found

[10:55] on your desk there is a a little swag um

[10:59] so you do have something to write with

[11:01] if you need it brought my own

[11:04] okay all

[11:10] right all right um so let me just go

[11:13] through these attributes uh and the

[11:16] first two attributes we have in every

[11:19] single recruitment that we do for city

[11:21] managers because these two the

[11:24] leadership and management category and

[11:26] the council relations are core to the

[11:30] work of a city manager now these uh the

[11:33] elements that are in uh these

[11:36] descriptions are consistent we make sure

[11:39] that they're consistent with what you

[11:40] told us um but we offer up that this

[11:47] these two attributes are Paramount uh to

[11:51] any candidate that you're looking for

[11:52] that you're looking for somebody who has

[11:54] the ability to oversee multiple

[11:57] departments to oversee multiple

[11:58] disciplines

[12:00] uh that can help generate an

[12:02] organization vision and a a leadership

[12:05] style that is accessible and and

[12:07] promotes communication and

[12:10] professionalism um and has uh experience

[12:14] in uh leading uh strategic workforce

[12:16] planning to meet Uh current and future

[12:19] staff capacity needs Council relations

[12:22] again paramont uh this person uh is

[12:27] directly accountable to you and so the

[12:30] ability for that person to uh maintain

[12:33] good relations uh with the council is

[12:37] important uh to be proactive in that

[12:40] relationship and professional fair and

[12:43] inclusive uh to always be aware of City

[12:47] operations and the legal o obligations

[12:50] of the city so that they can inform you

[12:53] of what of what's going on and what you

[12:57] may need to be uh talking about when it

[13:00] comes to Legal obligations and

[13:02] Regulatory

[13:03] Compliance um and

[13:06] also is get excuse me gives you the

[13:10] ability to make informed decisions it

[13:13] gets you the information that you need

[13:15] to make informed policy decisions as the

[13:18] city's Chief policymaking body

[13:21] communication came up uh a lot in our

[13:25] interviews uh looking for someone who

[13:27] with strong communication skills both

[13:29] for internal audiences and for external

[13:33] audiences and to that end being able to

[13:38] to communicate with diverse groups of

[13:42] people um and within that

[13:47] communication have emotional competency

[13:49] transparency humility inclusion ethics

[13:52] and

[13:53] accessibility um

[13:56] and also being able to promote two way

[14:00] dialogue and then finally this is when

[14:03] we talk about communication we're

[14:04] talking both verbal and written in this

[14:06] particular case actually most cases uh

[14:11] the next uh attribute not surprisingly I

[14:15] don't think is Wastewater and water

[14:18] infrastructure

[14:20] experience um you're looking for

[14:23] somebody who can facilitate large and

[14:25] complex capital projects particularly

[14:27] for Wastewater storm water and water

[14:29] water um I think it goes without saying

[14:32] that is a Paramount issue here in Sandy

[14:36] with all of the infrastructure needs

[14:37] that you have and the projects that you

[14:40] have planned and you're working

[14:42] on um but you're also looking for

[14:45] somebody who can lead the

[14:49] multifaceted portions of that because

[14:51] it's not just a matter of do you know

[14:53] how how to make sure that a capital

[14:56] infrastructure project is moving forward

[14:59] but do you understand how to to

[15:02] orchestrate being able to work with the

[15:05] Regulatory Agencies being able uh to

[15:08] work with your jurisdictional partners

[15:10] Your Community Partners and so forth and

[15:13] stay uh within the federal and state uh

[15:17] regulations um and uh also very

[15:22] important is the financing part of this

[15:25] and being able to be creative and

[15:28] effective in their financing approaches

[15:30] is going to be uh important as uh I'm

[15:33] sure you all

[15:34] know community and economic development

[15:37] it's the next category that came up and

[15:42] uh looking at being able to move forward

[15:46] with economic development and being able

[15:48] to seize those economic opportunities uh

[15:51] when they come to you and to proactively

[15:54] be able to uh look for those economic uh

[15:59] opportunities as they come

[16:01] up but it also takes a a certain degree

[16:07] of ability to think strategically about

[16:11] how do you set up policy and operations

[16:15] so that you're ready to take those

[16:17] economic opportunities when they come up

[16:20] and so we have put that in there and

[16:22] then uh at the last sentence there

[16:25] knowledge of Oregon land use law and

[16:27] urban renewal management is beneficial

[16:28] IAL this is those are two things that

[16:31] are are unique to Oregon um and so we

[16:35] have included

[16:36] that the next item is Public Finance um

[16:41] obviously uh you want somebody with with

[16:45] that's proficient in Public Finance

[16:47] skills um that's going to be responsible

[16:51] and strategic in fiscal

[16:53] management uh that's going to integrate

[16:56] uh your finances with with your city

[16:59] goals and includeed a diversity of

[17:02] Revenue approaches uh somebody who's

[17:05] going to be fiscally prudent with your

[17:06] taxpayer

[17:08] dollars uh and someone who is going to

[17:11] be looking at this from with a lens of

[17:13] developing maintaining uh sustainable

[17:16] Financial

[17:17] approaches um so that you have uh

[17:20] sustainable revenues Mo moving forward

[17:22] and again back to Oregon um experience

[17:26] with Oregon budget law and requirements

[17:28] is going to be

[17:31] helpful next uh item is facilities um

[17:35] when I'm talking about facilities here

[17:37] I'm talking about both in terms of

[17:41] employee workspace and in terms of uh

[17:46] facilities for Community

[17:48] use and so we heard that uh you would

[17:52] like to have somebody who understands

[17:54] facility planning and

[17:56] management uh and being able to

[17:59] integrate uh Workforce space needs uh

[18:03] with uh the future with future

[18:05] facilities uh planning and being able to

[18:09] strategically plan for the community's

[18:11] needs in uh facilities be the uh

[18:15] recreational resources or meeting spaces

[18:18] or any of the public facing

[18:21] administrative areas that you might

[18:23] have the next item is transportation and

[18:27] Transit uh

[18:30] and here we're talking about streets but

[18:33] we're also talking about your transit

[18:34] system and being able to effectively

[18:37] plan and maintain and construct streets

[18:42] as and being able to move forward uh and

[18:45] managing the transit system making sure

[18:47] that that's continuing forward um so

[18:50] you're looking for somebody who has

[18:52] experience developing traffic management

[18:54] approaches to support

[18:56] livability uh while facil in the high

[18:59] volume of visitors that you have going

[19:01] through um Sandy on a regular

[19:04] basis Community engagement also very

[19:08] much uh on the on the

[19:11] radar and what we heard was that you're

[19:14] looking for somebody who can maintain

[19:16] and enhance City's efforts to inform and

[19:18] engage the Sandy community in City

[19:24] business

[19:25] um within that you're looking for

[19:29] somebody who's going to in doing that be

[19:32] evenhanded uh with the

[19:35] community and is going to look for

[19:37] two-way dialogues leading toward

[19:40] consensus building when

[19:42] possible um and uh exuding the uh values

[19:47] of transparency inclusion collaboration

[19:51] and as I mentioned two-way uh

[19:53] communication and Community uh

[19:56] engagement intergovernmental relations

[19:59] there's a lot going on here uh that

[20:02] requires intergovernmental

[20:04] intergovernmental relations as we were

[20:07] uh hearing from you um and that's

[20:11] everything from just the the

[20:14] daytoday uh relationships that you might

[20:18] have with say the school district or the

[20:20] fire district uh or the county and the

[20:22] state and your Regulatory Agencies but

[20:24] also with these key projects that you

[20:27] have going on right now particularly in

[20:30] the Wastewater uh and the water supply

[20:33] uh realm uh and then of course with

[20:36] streets you you do have crossover there

[20:40] as well so being able to manage those

[20:43] intergovernmental relations is going to

[20:45] be

[20:46] key

[20:48] um housing policy and

[20:51] homelessness uh we heard uh a lot about

[20:55] uh that you want someone who understands

[20:59] housing Supply uh Housing

[21:03] Development that uh you may be in a

[21:07] point now where you're in a moratorium

[21:10] but uh it is anticipated that you're

[21:13] going to continue to grow as you have

[21:16] and so being able to think uh and plan

[21:20] for strategically how you're going to go

[21:22] about developing that housing Supply is

[21:25] going to be key um and how do you

[21:28] interface the public infrastructure to

[21:31] support those housing needs um and then

[21:36] also with regard to homelessness making

[21:39] sure that uh that you have the uh

[21:43] policies codes and resources to help

[21:46] address homelessness issues as they come

[21:51] forward then uh

[21:54] Broadband uh you are in a relatively

[21:58] unique situation compared to most

[22:00] cities uh with Transit and also with

[22:04] broadband and

[22:06] um I said I'm proud of it I'm proud of

[22:09] it absolutely and we heard that too so

[22:13] um so somebody who's familiar uh with

[22:16] Municipal broadband system operations

[22:18] would be

[22:19] desirable uh if at all possible uh you

[22:24] we I will say that uh that's going to be

[22:29] uh that's going to be part of the

[22:30] Unicorn yeah

[22:33] so uh and appreciation for Sandy uh and

[22:37] what Sandy is where Sand's been where

[22:39] Sand's going and what the culture of

[22:42] Sandy is um and then we always have in

[22:47] here the understanding of city

[22:49] government roles do they understand what

[22:52] their role is what the role of the city

[22:53] council is what the role of staff is and

[22:57] um and to how to navigate legally

[23:00] defined roles uh as they're doing their

[23:04] job now um I'm going to go through the

[23:09] policy directives and then we'll Circle

[23:10] back to the attributes and then to the

[23:12] policy

[23:13] directives um now the policy directors

[23:16] are called for in Oregon law um if you

[23:19] want to hold executive session that's

[23:21] part of the profile and that's why we

[23:23] put these in in here but it's also

[23:25] helpful for the candidates to understand

[23:28] what are the big issues that you have

[23:30] going on that they're going to need to

[23:32] be a need to Grapple with so not

[23:36] surprisingly number one is Wastewater

[23:39] infrastructure expansion

[23:42] um that we heard that in I think every

[23:45] single

[23:47] interview um and

[23:50] uh we have a description here that kind

[23:53] of takes it through where you've come

[23:56] from on this uh and uh the

[24:00] moratorium uh the consent

[24:02] decree and uh raising uh the fact that

[24:06] there have been concerns about utility

[24:08] Community concerns about utility

[24:12] rates so the next uh city manager is

[24:15] going to need to be able to move forward

[24:17] with those Wastewater improvements uh

[24:20] they're going to be uh need to work

[24:22] closely with your public works

[24:24] department to address the unfunded

[24:26] mandates that uh are part of that

[24:29] and to meet the terms of the consent

[24:31] decree and accommodate growth in a

[24:33] manner that's financially

[24:36] sustainable uh for the city and for the

[24:38] rate

[24:40] payers the second issue uh we heard

[24:43] about um drinking water

[24:46] reinvestment and this goes back to the

[24:50] drinking water system reinvestment

[24:52] project and I'm not going

[24:54] to go through the particulars that

[24:57] because you know that but just a cut to

[24:59] the chase here at the end uh where we

[25:02] always add what the role of the next

[25:04] city manager is going to be in these

[25:07] issues and the city manager is going to

[25:09] need to work closely with Public Works

[25:11] to ensure that this project moves

[25:13] forward efficiently and in a manner that

[25:16] is financially sustainable to the city

[25:18] and rate

[25:20] payers second I'm sorry third issue that

[25:23] we heard about was the Community campus

[25:25] project and uh we learned that that was

[25:30] that is a key project in your downtown

[25:32] area to develop a new park in the heart

[25:35] of

[25:36] downtown um and that you're you're

[25:40] currently uh Gathering Community input

[25:42] on that to come up with a development

[25:44] plan so the next city manager is going

[25:46] to need to take the Baton on that and to

[25:49] help run forward uh with it um so

[25:54] they're going to need to be able to be

[25:55] the champion of that

[25:58] uh and to to uh be able to help with the

[26:03] funding the community engagement that

[26:05] comes along with that and the

[26:07] Partnerships that will be needed to move

[26:10] that project

[26:11] forward police chief

[26:14] recruitment

[26:16] um it's evident that uh your police

[26:20] chief uh has decid to

[26:23] retire um and so you will be looking for

[26:26] another police chief and uh the next

[26:28] city manager is going to need to be

[26:31] involved in selecting that person um

[26:34] moving forward and in a way that's

[26:37] transparent and fair in the selection

[26:39] process for the next police chief and

[26:43] then lastly uh Workforce capacity and

[26:45] space needs assessment we heard a lot

[26:48] about space needs uh for

[26:52] employees um and we heard a lot about

[26:57] the limitations and at the same time

[27:00] hearing that uh you run a very

[27:04] lean very lean

[27:07] Workforce

[27:09] and to that end the next city manager is

[27:12] going to need to come in and assess that

[27:14] situation and assess what is needed in

[27:17] terms of space at the same time that the

[27:21] new city manager is looking at Staffing

[27:25] requirements and so being able to

[27:28] integrate those two concepts together

[27:30] and and the plan moving forward is going

[27:32] to be is going to be

[27:35] Paramount

[27:37] um so uh that gets us to the end of the

[27:41] profile and I'm GNA go back and ask you

[27:46] uh let's just take this section by

[27:48] section uh do you have any comments

[27:51] about the minimum education and

[27:54] experience

[28:02] question down okay I gotta find

[28:05] it it was more about a certification

[28:07] than it was oh it is um CR to have a a

[28:13] CPM you didn't have that in there for

[28:15] certified public managers um were those

[28:18] do they have to have just The Bachelors

[28:22] in public administration or could we add

[28:25] a CP C A CPM for prefer referred I know

[28:29] you had Masters for public admin but I

[28:31] didn't know about a certification for

[28:33] you could you could add that I I would

[28:35] recommend that it go in the preferred

[28:37] section uh because it'll severely limit

[28:39] your candidates if you put it in the

[28:42] minimum um I didn't think it should go

[28:44] in the minimum I just thought it as a

[28:45] preferred as a preferred

[28:48] Benchmark because some people might read

[28:50] at least from a Clarity standpoint and I

[28:53] want to make sure that the applications

[28:55] you know meeting all the requirements

[28:57] somebody might look at that and say okay

[28:59] I have a bachelor's but I don't have a

[29:00] master's and some sometime they they do

[29:03] have a certificate that they've taken

[29:06] that could be beneficial to their you

[29:07] know to their scoring on an application

[29:10] sure can you I'm not familiar with that

[29:13] certification so can you make the case

[29:14] for why

[29:16] that's good I mean there's a lot of

[29:18] Sears in my industry that

[29:20] aren't yeah and I guess from my

[29:23] standpoint just in my experience is

[29:25] somebody that has gone out and taken the

[29:27] time and enaging and effort to put forth

[29:29] the work effort into getting specific

[29:31] certifications for their skill set

[29:33] always enhances their do you have any

[29:36] history or experience with this specific

[29:38] certification no I can't say what's it

[29:40] called it's a certified public manager

[29:43] Eric isn't the isn't doesn't icma have a

[29:46] certified manager program that's the one

[29:48] that I've seen before yeah thank you

[29:51] Jeff public servant public servants in

[29:54] city and state government yeah so icma

[29:56] the the international City County

[29:58] Managers Association does have a

[30:00] certification uh program for managers

[30:03] and that list of people on that are it's

[30:07] an elite group if you will um I would

[30:11] recommend that if you wanted to put some

[30:13] uh certification down that that that

[30:15] would be the one that you put down as

[30:17] preferred um specifically so after

[30:21] masters of public administration comma

[30:23] or CPM certification Etc again I'm not

[30:29] to the council I'm not I'm not saying we

[30:30] should put it on the required section I

[30:33] just think that I'm looking at it says

[30:35] identif completed the required 300 hours

[30:37] of study through a CPM program

[30:39] accredited blah blah so it's not just

[30:42] like a weekend course right I have to

[30:44] defer to somebody who knows more about

[30:46] it than me which I know nothing

[30:49] so this is when you say it's an elite

[30:53] group usually Elite's a good thing it is

[30:57] in this case yeah okay so

[31:00] yeah so we'll include the icma

[31:04] certification as one of the preferreds

[31:07] so okay I was gonna bring this up under

[31:10] experience stuff but since you're

[31:11] already here I think I'll jump in um

[31:14] first

[31:15] off um in in my mind we are not looking

[31:19] for a beginner I've been through three

[31:23] city managers and I got to say that

[31:26] somebody who's had that experience

[31:27] before really made a difference in what

[31:29] happened here so would you say that

[31:34] Sandy would be best suited

[31:38] for a highly experienced city manager

[31:41] somebody that really has to have in my

[31:44] mind they do need it because of all the

[31:46] issues that are going on here but I

[31:48] don't want to over qualify the

[31:50] suggestion about having a pink um

[31:54] unicorn is no animal in this world that

[31:57] will fit all these things but sure I I

[32:00] also don't want to make the circle so

[32:02] small that we just don't get anybody I

[32:05] do want to get a nice round look at

[32:08] several candidates so

[32:11] are where do you perceive Sandy should

[32:14] be at should we be talking about you my

[32:16] perception of a highly qualified or do

[32:19] you think this is Sandy is more of a y

[32:22] smaller

[32:23] City they don't attack me but I do not

[32:26] think that we have a lot of big ISS

[32:27] issues for a city our size yes and you

[32:31] do um and I I would

[32:36] recommend or or think that it would

[32:41] be beneficial for you to have someone

[32:45] with City management experience or at

[32:48] least someone who has been in the sea

[32:52] Suite um someone who's who's been

[32:56] interacting with councils somebody who

[33:00] understands what it is to plan

[33:02] Citywide and to go across multiple

[33:06] disciplines in the public

[33:08] sector um so we do have in the preferred

[33:12] uh a statement in there about city city

[33:15] manager city manager experience which

[33:18] means we're going to give extra points

[33:19] if somebody has that

[33:22] experience Service as a city manager as

[33:24] well as experience and or training in

[33:26] Economic Development and growth man

[33:27] management is highly

[33:29] desired experience working in organs

[33:32] benefici I was thinking of counselor a

[33:36] requirement of a bachelor's degree in

[33:40] one of these areas as a minimum but but

[33:43] I know you have it in or though oh here

[33:47] it's or related

[33:51] field yeah it looked to me like that was

[33:54] the degree

[33:55] was um equal to or as important as the

[34:00] experience so you have either one I

[34:03] interpreted that as the degree would be

[34:05] preferable in these areas but it could

[34:07] be an alternative degree so if we had a

[34:09] biology BS who happened to have 10 years

[34:12] as a city manager we would look had him

[34:14] because he would have met the minimum

[34:15] side correct that's that's what I took

[34:17] that as well and that's kind of the

[34:19] place that I'm saying I'm I'm conflict

[34:21] with you want to require previous City

[34:24] management experience as a minimum uh is

[34:28] that what you're saying I was looking at

[34:30] the degree I don't need a doctorates but

[34:34] let's just be people um the difference

[34:37] between Jordan leaving who had the

[34:40] degree and some of the other city

[34:43] managers that were pulled in because

[34:45] they happen to

[34:46] have understanding of city was in my

[34:49] mind a significant

[34:51] Advantage having a the degree and

[34:54] experience was really key for what

[34:56] Jordan's able to do

[34:58] but isn't that and isn't that there

[35:00] though because it's it's listed as it's

[35:04] listed as preferred not required I mean

[35:06] so really doesn't the question come down

[35:08] to do you want to limit our pool of

[35:12] candidates that we get to interview and

[35:13] have in front of us uh by making that a

[35:16] requirement or would you rather have a

[35:18] more diverse pool that we can have in

[35:20] front of us and I guess I land and

[35:22] having a more diverse pool um while also

[35:25] trying you know under preference saying

[35:27] sure prefer this but maybe we find

[35:29] somebody that has you know 15 years

[35:32] worth of city manager experience but

[35:34] doesn't have that

[35:36] educationally uh but we we we find that

[35:38] individual be to be a top

[35:40] candidate that's why I was making the

[35:43] statement mayor is that I I don't want

[35:46] to make this pool so small that we get

[35:48] one person or nobody I do want to make

[35:51] it wide enough that we do get a good

[35:53] variety of folks from different kinds of

[35:55] perspectives

[35:56] [Music]

[35:57] I just don't want to waste people's time

[35:59] in mine looking at folks that just don't

[36:02] cut it so I have a different opinion on

[36:05] where your degree comes from or what

[36:07] your degree is in and

[36:10] that and it's probably still because of

[36:13] my own background I spent very little

[36:15] time working in my degree area most of

[36:18] my care has been outside of my degree

[36:20] area if somebody like Jenny 10 years

[36:23] from now wanted to apply for a city

[36:25] manager role she's a phenomenal person

[36:28] but she doesn't have one of those

[36:29] degrees she's an engineer right and you

[36:31] don't want to restrict somebody with the

[36:33] right experience so that's to me is

[36:35] really important to go after that or

[36:37] related field so you got some degree

[36:39] that's the minimum right but now tell us

[36:42] how your experience and training

[36:45] connects to the position description

[36:46] correct that that's what I'm looking for

[36:49] I guess that's why I'm looking at you

[36:50] Eric to say to me don't make this a

[36:54] requirement make this a preferred so

[36:57] that we do get the mix or you think

[36:59] there's going to be plenty of people

[37:00] applying we didn't get tremendous

[37:02] numbers for Jordan's

[37:06] position well we got a few and I think

[37:08] that's I guess that's what I'm looking

[37:09] at you for we're paying you the dollars

[37:11] to

[37:12] tell so uh putting it into the preferred

[37:17] category enables us

[37:20] to to make sure that those candidates

[37:24] that have those

[37:26] preferred uh

[37:28] attributes get pushed ahead of those

[37:32] that may not have that so you already

[37:36] have I think what you're looking for

[37:38] under the preferred category and by

[37:41] having it in here that tells us this is

[37:44] what you prefer this and we will move

[37:47] the those candidates forward that have

[37:50] those that have that meet those uh

[37:53] attributes

[37:55] okay me into it move on

[37:58] okay just on that the only thing I would

[38:01] maybe add is that you know under the

[38:03] minimum it says at least three years of

[38:06] upper level government management

[38:08] experience you know several of us Carl

[38:11] and I both have government management

[38:14] experience I would you know I would

[38:16] maybe just tweak that to say City

[38:18] management experience since we are

[38:20] looking to you know for to some extent

[38:22] for somebody with you know

[38:25] City or at least you know SE Town County

[38:29] so you know something like that I mean

[38:31] forest service is not you know that's

[38:33] government experience you know FK is

[38:35] government experience Army is government

[38:37] exp local yeah local government or

[38:39] whatever they're trying to restrict me

[38:41] from applying can you see

[38:44] that so Kathleen just to clarify though

[38:48] like uh Moma County government Metro

[38:51] Clackamus County government and OD do

[38:55] type uh you know Governor's Department

[38:57] dep th those candidates are are fine

[39:01] local government stand that covers it I

[39:02] think yeah okay good yep me too they

[39:07] would probably lose out on the other

[39:08] criteria so yeah I'm inclined to we'll

[39:11] sweep out the lower priority candidates

[39:14] pretty quickly so counselor that that is

[39:17] a helpful distinction um and we'll put

[39:20] local government in there uh we do get

[39:22] people who do apply from that have been

[39:25] with a federal government for years uh

[39:27] and have been middle management uh that

[39:30] have been managing a lot of people but

[39:33] it's not quite the same thing so the

[39:36] local government distinction uh does

[39:38] help that was a big quite not quite the

[39:40] same

[39:41] thing not at all resembl that

[39:47] remark all right um well we we kind of

[39:51] moved right into the preferred education

[39:53] experience so uh with those two items

[39:56] there with the discussion we had are you

[39:58] good with that all right um let's move

[40:01] down to the uh desired skills and

[40:04] attributes uh I'm going just open it up

[40:06] in general for that entire section if

[40:09] you have

[40:12] comments go

[40:14] again um this is just really to enhance

[40:16] Clarity and readability of it in my in

[40:19] my l so sure maybe not I feel like we

[40:22] have um infrastructure and Public Works

[40:25] scatter throughout of throughout this

[40:27] so when I look at page two it's got

[40:30] Wastewater and water infrastructure and

[40:32] Page Three has facilities and

[40:34] transportation page four has got

[40:36] Broadband I I think you should put all

[40:39] those together um so that it just

[40:42] improves the clarity readability of it

[40:44] because when I when I look at the

[40:46] desired skills and attributes and you

[40:48] have leadership management and

[40:49] communication and those are management

[40:52] level you know things that correlate

[40:55] when we're talking about infrastructure

[40:57] in public works Public Works is

[40:58] transportation water sewer energy

[41:00] facilities parks and rack safety you

[41:03] know and maybe having those all in a row

[41:06] so that they stay

[41:09] together are you saying are you saying

[41:12] leave them at separate paragraphs but

[41:14] just reorganize them so that they're all

[41:16] together yeah I mean this is all about

[41:18] preference now I I would put a I would

[41:20] put a title that says infrastructure

[41:22] public works and then drop all those as

[41:23] sub bullets underneath it because

[41:25] they're all in line but you have the way

[41:27] you have it templated right now is just

[41:29] individual templates and that's fine I

[41:31] would just push them all together so

[41:32] they're not separated by um community

[41:36] and economic development Public Finance

[41:39] you know those are that's just creating

[41:41] a gap and then you're going back to

[41:42] facilities it's just about the way the

[41:45] the page reads at least from my L yeah

[41:48] I counselor thank you for that comment

[41:50] and uh I I don't know maybe you were in

[41:52] our office when we were discussing how

[41:54] to put this together um we did have a

[41:58] similar conversation to that um but I'll

[42:00] tell you why we did we did this the way

[42:04] we did and then if you folks want us to

[42:06] change it we're happy to do that um

[42:09] we're we were looking at the order here

[42:12] is sort of almost an order of

[42:15] importance and the Wastewater and water

[42:18] infrastructure piece came through so

[42:21] clearly as something that you really

[42:23] need to have somebody to help navigate

[42:26] we felt we needed to peel that out and

[42:29] to make sure that it was its own uh

[42:33] attributes um and uh with re with regard

[42:39] to

[42:41] um uh trans transportation and and

[42:45] Transit uh we didn't we didn't and

[42:49] Facilities uh we didn't hear the

[42:52] volume that we heard with regard to

[42:55] Wastewater and water infrastructure so

[42:58] we moved it kind of down down the line

[43:00] now we can group those very easily and

[43:04] that's not a problem for us if that's

[43:06] what you would like to do and just for

[43:08] clarity I wasn't suggesting anything

[43:10] about the priority of importance it was

[43:12] just about keeping them grouped together

[43:14] so the candidate who's reading it would

[43:16] understand their role and everything

[43:17] that they saw so that again just Just My

[43:19] Lens I do have one more thing for yes I

[43:23] saw well it's really the next subtopic

[43:25] is policy directive

[43:27] but in the in the header of desired

[43:30] skills and attributes I don't recall

[43:32] seeing anything

[43:35] over know it was policy

[43:38] implementation policy what

[43:41] implementation and when I was you know

[43:43] we talking about implementing policies

[43:45] and ordinances and resolutions adopted

[43:46] by city council to ensure the compliance

[43:48] with the laws and regulations I I didn't

[43:51] really see that written anywhere amongst

[43:55] those things which I mean it's implied

[43:58] and then you go into the policy

[43:59] directives which tell them what are the

[44:01] key things the city's working on but I

[44:04] didn't see anything about actually

[44:05] implementing policy that the city

[44:09] council we that just for a

[44:12] second did have the sentence set up

[44:16] unique under housing policy and

[44:18] homelessness right but I wonder it's

[44:21] something that should be added to the

[44:23] general leadership and management

[44:27] in the

[44:28] broad perspective are you talking about

[44:30] the legislation as well as policy no

[44:33] well specifically um because I didn't

[44:35] see that knowledge knowledge and

[44:38] experience to support collaborative

[44:40] efforts to facilate policies codes and

[44:42] resources to and in this case it said

[44:45] address H because the reality is those

[44:47] things are core leadership things that

[44:49] we need in general I'm and adding that

[44:53] something like that to the that up front

[44:55] that first spiler plate leadership thing

[44:59] that be under leadership and management

[45:00] or Council relations um yes

[45:05] leadership so um yeah I I understand

[45:09] your point uh thank you and I think that

[45:11] this is something we could easily

[45:13] incorporate either under leadership

[45:15] management and or under Council

[45:17] relations I think that's the place that

[45:19] that would fall

[45:22] under we're we may not have talked about

[45:25] it a lot but one of our challenges left

[45:27] couple years has been to try to become

[45:29] more policy oriented and do a better job

[45:31] of managing our policies as a

[45:34] council okay all right we we will uh

[45:38] work on uh including that in one of

[45:40] those two sections or both um so

[45:46] so one thing I wanted to explore is uh

[45:50] coming off your your comments you just

[45:52] made about water and wastewater um and

[45:56] setting at aen priority I mean obviously

[45:59] I think we all agree it's a it's a huge

[46:02] priority um but just a reminder when we

[46:04] got Jordan you know his big um Capital

[46:08] project experience was I think it was a

[46:10] new city hall um in Lake iggo and so it

[46:14] doesn't have to be just so specific to

[46:17] Water and Wastewater it can be project

[46:20] management experience overall and while

[46:23] obviously Water and Wastewater is going

[46:25] to be in the foreseeable future for us

[46:27] I'd hate to only get you know retired

[46:31] Public Works directors and you know uh

[46:35] just you know people from that sector

[46:36] applying for this because while it's a

[46:38] priority I just I want to make sure

[46:40] we're not

[46:42] overemphasizing um how big of a priority

[46:44] that that skill set is for

[46:47] us can I because that's the one area

[46:49] that I had some criticism on if I read

[46:53] that Wastewater and water infrastructure

[46:55] it does feel like I'm recruiting fore

[46:57] project manager and we're not we're

[46:59] recruiting for an executive to oversee

[47:01] these projects from an executive level

[47:04] we have program managers and project

[47:07] managers and the Public Works director

[47:10] what we're looking for is somebody who

[47:11] has that ability to understand their

[47:14] role with the

[47:15] program as an

[47:18] executive to build on that and that was

[47:20] a big thing for me when I looked at this

[47:22] I'd like to see somebody who can ad

[47:25] administrate those difference segments

[47:27] there are some people in our staff that

[47:29] are so good it's mostly just stand out

[47:32] of their way let them do their thing

[47:33] with a little bit of guidance and guard

[47:36] rails and such but let them do their

[47:38] that's the kind of person I want I want

[47:40] somebody who can be a compliment to

[47:42] these highly qualified people we've done

[47:45] a pretty good job of getting some great

[47:48] uh staff in place would want to get in

[47:50] their way yeah it's a little different

[47:53] skill set appropriate sponsorship

[47:56] mentoring

[47:58] that's I just want to say all those

[48:00] comments really go with mine I I totally

[48:03] agree with all of that

[48:05] so if you look at that section if you

[48:07] take out sentence number two where you

[48:09] at I think oh Wastewater and water

[48:12] infrastructure if you if you take out

[48:15] sentence number two it starts with

[48:16] knowledge and ends with

[48:18] important right that everything else I

[48:21] think fits holistically for that role

[48:25] but that one is very specific about yeah

[48:28] having that that you know what I mean it

[48:31] it it is I really would like to see the

[48:33] word you know that executive role with

[48:36] programs and projects to me is what's

[48:39] missing yeah and you they're using the

[48:41] word facility right is that is that kind

[48:44] of that's what I well so keep in mind

[48:47] I'm a project manager program manager

[48:49] and that if we're appealing with people

[48:51] who understand that discipline bringing

[48:54] a candidate in who understands that

[48:55] discipline is

[48:57] powerful and so I would like it phrased

[48:59] in those words that relate to that

[49:02] discipline so if we were to strike that

[49:05] second sentence as you suggest uh and

[49:08] then to put some language in that really

[49:12] goes to the concept of working working

[49:17] with the staff uh and and being able to

[49:22] support uh staff's

[49:25] efforts moving forward is that so I I'm

[49:30] I'm I don't like that as much okay now

[49:32] I'm speaking for myself now but I so I

[49:35] agree with what Carl Carl's saying in

[49:38] terms of we have great staff we really

[49:40] do but I think more importantly is we

[49:43] run programs whether the budget programs

[49:45] or in the case of Wastewater we have a

[49:47] program manager outsourced that handles

[49:50] the entire program management things

[49:52] they're going to be returning all kinds

[49:54] of metrics but what I I need what we

[49:58] need that was pretty selfish to me what

[50:00] we need is that executive function and

[50:03] if if you're looking at it from a PMI

[50:06] perspective the role is that governance

[50:09] function or that sponsorship function

[50:11] somebody who understands the role as a

[50:13] sponsor of these programs and

[50:16] understands you know their roles

[50:18] in yes it is a facilitation Ro but it's

[50:21] not in the weeds facilitation it's

[50:23] coordinating finances priorities

[50:25] resources and so forth

[50:28] way up here being an overarching um uh

[50:31] Champion if you will uh well once again

[50:35] Champion is a little word if you go to

[50:37] PMI okay which that means something way

[50:40] down here not the executive okay I like

[50:44] Words more like coaching

[50:47] mentoring managing negotiations those

[50:51] are kind of words I guess I'm thinking

[50:53] of when I think about the executive

[50:57] conversation that dos having I think

[51:00] from where I sit um it's the ability to

[51:03] kind of understand the the jargon and

[51:07] the um the strategies and and all that

[51:11] data and the ability to kind of help you

[51:14] know if you had it you know Jenny's

[51:16] great because she's pretty she kind of I

[51:18] don't know dumbs it down for us but you

[51:19] know she she's able to deliver it to us

[51:21] so we can understand it you other

[51:23] Engineers you know tend to kind of

[51:25] really data heavy and you know you don't

[51:27] know what they're talking about so

[51:28] having a city manager who can help and

[51:31] help um synthesize the the data into

[51:34] kind of digestible levels of

[51:37] understanding for both the council but

[51:39] also for the public so having that

[51:41] understanding of the pro the

[51:42] infrastructure complex infrastructure

[51:44] projects regardless of whether it's

[51:46] water Wastewater or whatever um to be

[51:49] able to kind of um explain it and deal

[51:53] with the inter agency Communications and

[51:55] things like that so if I'm hearing what

[51:58] I'm hearing is that what you're really

[52:00] looking for is somebody who provides

[52:01] guidance and Leadership to support staff

[52:04] as they initiate what's in front of them

[52:07] so if uh for example you have Jenny you

[52:09] need that city manager that's going to

[52:11] be able to be whichever word we want to

[52:14] use but you're really providing guidance

[52:16] leadership and support to make sure that

[52:20] that staff can be successful in

[52:22] implementing their initiatives going

[52:24] forward and pration

[52:26] conflicts arise with that's getting to

[52:28] your executive level which is providing

[52:31] that and each director has different

[52:33] things that they need from that leader y

[52:36] so would that be a kind of a consensus

[52:39] so this a good time to talk about how

[52:40] much we're gonna pay this spectacular

[52:43] dude because if we're I'm just thinking

[52:45] to myself though we're asking for some

[52:47] pretty significant skills here I know

[52:51] that we're Happ down the road a little

[52:53] bit before we get to the dollars but I'm

[52:55] just thinking to myself are we going to

[52:56] Outsource ourselves we we looking at a

[52:58] Portland city manager versus the Sandy

[53:00] City Manager type do these kind of words

[53:04] no not at all I mean these are these are

[53:06] great clarifications and I I think

[53:08] points well taken um and we want to make

[53:11] sure that that that we hit the mark for

[53:13] you folks um and I understand exactly

[53:16] what you're saying about not getting the

[53:18] weeds not being the project manager but

[53:21] being the person who has the oversight

[53:24] that can help help move move these

[53:27] things forward at their level within

[53:29] their role as a city manager not that

[53:33] they're down in public works uh trying

[53:36] to look at uh every schematic plan that

[53:39] there is uh with regard to sewer pipes

[53:43] so yeah not like Jeff's experience as

[53:46] city

[53:47] manager yeah boots in the

[53:49] [Music]

[53:51] mud all right I think we've got enough

[53:53] to to work with it and um

[53:57] uh so I we'll take a shot at that but I

[53:59] would like to come back to your comments

[54:02] with regard to uh this all the different

[54:05] infrastructure elements that are kind of

[54:06] peppered throughout do you want us to

[54:09] try and combine those or are you good

[54:11] with those being

[54:14] separate I kind of think so my thoughts

[54:17] on these a lot of these go along our

[54:19] Council

[54:20] gos

[54:22] um so therefore I do like the idea of

[54:25] organizing a little bit better but I

[54:28] still think they should be separate

[54:31] par counselor uh when you say organize

[54:34] better uh what are you looking for so

[54:36] the way I initially understood what

[54:38] Chris was saying was put the the M

[54:42] better terms of Public Works style stuff

[54:45] in in column for right but I still

[54:48] rather than put it all as one big bullet

[54:50] and one big paragraph with subheads I do

[54:53] like the separate paragraphs for each of

[54:55] those special te so if we were to group

[54:59] these together that would get get at

[55:02] your concern well the bottom line would

[55:05] be are we going to give us give these

[55:08] people that are going to apply the

[55:10] correct information be able to

[55:12] understand what they're applying for I

[55:15] guess I I would expect this person to be

[55:18] intelligent enough to be able to read

[55:19] these

[55:20] things up with a response you know

[55:24] resume all the other Jensen Matrix which

[55:27] I look forward to finding all about you

[55:29] think higher people than I do I think

[55:31] that is a good idea what rich said

[55:33] because you know if somebody doesn't

[55:35] have a lot of water Wastewater

[55:37] experience but they have more you know

[55:38] streets or something else then they can

[55:41] kind of you know if they're all kind of

[55:43] grouped they can kind of speak to those

[55:45] skills that we're looking for with

[55:47] reference to the these you know projects

[55:49] that aren't exactly lined up with water

[55:51] waste water but integrate it you know

[55:53] their response in and I guess that's how

[55:55] I see that helping them organize their

[55:58] thoughts and also help us you know pick

[56:01] those skills out yeah okay I think we

[56:04] have some really great language and the

[56:06] council goals that can serve as kind of

[56:08] like the initial introduction to that

[56:09] section and then talking about

[56:11] maintaining sustainable infrastructure

[56:13] and then going into each section I think

[56:15] we have it yeah great well and by the

[56:19] way uh when it comes to rewriting this

[56:23] uh we will be working with Jeff and

[56:25] Angie uh

[56:26] on that to make sure we're hitting the

[56:28] mark so those guys

[56:37] understand okay all right uh any other

[56:41] comments on the attribute

[56:47] section that

[56:48] will we'll move on and let's uh look at

[56:54] the policy directives uh any comments

[56:56] with regard to policy directives follow

[56:58] the Wastewater infrastructure expansion

[57:01] the statement this I think it's the

[57:03] third sentence despite these efforts the

[57:05] high

[57:06] volume the high volume of sewage and

[57:08] water fls especially during what has led

[57:11] yes that that's incorrect so that

[57:15] overhaul we're doing is because of

[57:19] past problems and so that sentence we're

[57:22] talking about those overflows and things

[57:24] that was all before we started any of

[57:25] our upgrades we now reduced that

[57:28] significantly not to say that we never

[57:30] have a problem but it's it's not in

[57:32] spite of right

[57:35] okay so we'll change the beginning of

[57:38] that sentence to reflect

[57:43] that just make sure it's very in the

[57:46] past

[57:48] because you're absolutely right yeah

[57:50] just was looking

[57:52] over okay great perfect that's kind of

[57:56] we're looking for yeah I want to back up

[57:57] just for one sec only I was just mention

[57:59] as I was looking at it I'm missing

[58:01] anything about Emergency Management is

[58:03] that is that necessary to have that in

[58:05] there uh no and again you know where

[58:09] these came out of were from the

[58:10] interviews that we did and what came

[58:13] collectively from everybody that we

[58:15] interviewed um we did not hear a lot

[58:18] about Emergency

[58:21] Management I'm just pretty sure that's

[58:23] that was Jordan's role so that's one of

[58:27] his

[58:28] roles does need to be mentioned I would

[58:31] be one that didn't bring it up didn't

[58:34] occur to me well ditto because I don't

[58:36] think I brought it up obviously of did

[58:39] it's not it's not your forethought but I

[58:41] mean at the front of our brain right now

[58:43] but I think that I do agree that uh the

[58:46] Emergency Management and as we continue

[58:48] to work towards

[58:49] redundancies and all

[58:54] um I think that is something that I'm

[58:57] not saying it has to have its own

[58:58] paragraph would you like to add it under

[59:00] leadership and management attributes the

[59:02] ability to manage under crisis including

[59:05] emergency conditions I I think it

[59:07] belongs under intergovernmental

[59:09] relations because that's you that's kind

[59:11] of you know you're working with the fire

[59:13] department and you know Sheriff's

[59:15] Office all

[59:17] those yeah you know as a city manager

[59:21] you don't really have a lot of control

[59:24] over anything sorry I didn't mean to

[59:25] back you up

[59:27] that's that's fine rather hear about it

[59:29] now so I would say counselor um it may

[59:33] actually even deserve its own bullet it

[59:34] doesn't have to be a big one but it it

[59:36] involves intergovernmental but it also

[59:38] involves things just here within the

[59:40] city organization it's funny you know

[59:41] the chief knows that we on a staff level

[59:43] we had a meeting today on the natural

[59:46] Hazard mitigation plan which the council

[59:47] will be seeing later this year but kind

[59:50] of our initial work on it it doesn't get

[59:52] talked about a lot but it is important

[59:53] and it is something that you know

[59:55] probably should be mentioned at least in

[59:57] my opinion under its own section should

[1:00:00] everything goes that way if you got a

[1:00:02] big issue if the earthquake happens we

[1:00:04] won't even be thinking about Wastewater

[1:00:06] we all be going down to crack in a hole

[1:00:12] Port that describe it pretty well no

[1:00:15] words we have some we have some language

[1:00:17] that we could

[1:00:21] offer you don't like that if there's if

[1:00:24] there's an earthquake or totally going

[1:00:26] to be worrying about water and waste

[1:00:28] water but

[1:00:32] anyway

[1:00:34] bottles the uh should that to that point

[1:00:37] though rather than and and I'm cool with

[1:00:39] its own paragraph as well but should

[1:00:41] that go under uh preferred experience

[1:00:44] you know just and I'm just throwing this

[1:00:45] out there uh IC experience Emergency

[1:00:48] Management

[1:00:50] operations um as a higher level I mean I

[1:00:53] I know that's something that

[1:00:56] is an executive

[1:00:58] level piece of well that training

[1:01:00] especially around the IC and that um and

[1:01:03] I made I'm just throwing this out there

[1:01:04] as a spitball I I don't know if that's a

[1:01:06] good idea or not that's your discretion

[1:01:08] as to what you you want you know

[1:01:10] experience with IC or the ability to get

[1:01:13] it that's kind love because you know or

[1:01:16] is that something that's just too much

[1:01:17] into the weeds for something like I

[1:01:18] guess that's my question I'm a little

[1:01:20] concerned about there's a number of

[1:01:22] small I shouldn't say smaller less

[1:01:25] crucial in our face uh that could be

[1:01:28] lumped into this and I'm thinking about

[1:01:30] personnel management not that it's not

[1:01:32] important it's just that not in my face

[1:01:34] at the moment but the Emergency

[1:01:37] Management um and a little bit time I

[1:01:39] might come up with some others but I I

[1:01:41] think there are some things that we

[1:01:44] don't spend a lot of time with until

[1:01:46] they become in our face kind of stuff

[1:01:48] and so I'm a little concerned about

[1:01:50] pulling out each of those different

[1:01:52] items because again we're going to end

[1:01:54] up with this the uh sample is is the

[1:01:57] Unicorn thing you'll never get somebody

[1:02:00] has all these different pieces and and

[1:02:02] Emergency Management I let's just be

[1:02:04] honest with how much Focus we've given

[1:02:06] it as a council the last two and a half

[1:02:08] years which is half of one work session

[1:02:12] or something that didn't go well I

[1:02:14] mean if unless we choose to prioritize

[1:02:18] that and push it more regardless of what

[1:02:20] experience they come in with we're not

[1:02:21] going to do much there I think you would

[1:02:24] also gather that from based off their

[1:02:25] experience as a skill set that they

[1:02:27] would have that they could learn based

[1:02:29] off their their whole experience level I

[1:02:32] think that's what you could teach and

[1:02:33] don't I I thought I I kind of recall

[1:02:36] Mike having to go to the uh IC Ernie do

[1:02:39] you guys your staff go to IC training

[1:02:42] staff do well a lot of Staff try just at

[1:02:45] least the lower levels of it some more

[1:02:47] than

[1:02:48] others I was G say when I started with

[1:02:50] the state I had no government experience

[1:02:52] with IC and in my first year I went to

[1:02:55] several course works and then I came

[1:02:58] back and had to draft the agency policy

[1:02:59] for it so it just you could get trained

[1:03:03] in it I think it'd be unusual to see it

[1:03:06] in the qualification section for city

[1:03:08] manager but I mean but having it in the

[1:03:10] kind of further it in the into the body

[1:03:12] if this sort of makes sense does that

[1:03:16] okay

[1:03:18] R should it just fit under

[1:03:20] intergovernmental relations though I'm

[1:03:22] just trying to as to avoid a whole

[1:03:24] paragraph I guess in my

[1:03:26] and I'm fine with that I can be sold

[1:03:28] either way I don't know the right answer

[1:03:29] I've never done this before

[1:03:31] so so um again it depends on where this

[1:03:36] priority lies for you uh in conjunction

[1:03:39] with everything else that you've got

[1:03:40] down there on the attributes you know

[1:03:44] for for sisters for example Emergency

[1:03:47] Management was a big deal um for obvious

[1:03:52] reasons

[1:03:54] um I I only you can tell us how big of a

[1:03:58] deal it is for you at this point in time

[1:04:01] but if you were to include it in under

[1:04:05] intergovernmental relations then uh at

[1:04:08] least you've got a foothold if you will

[1:04:11] for Emergency

[1:04:12] Management uh and so that we when we're

[1:04:15] scanning through applications then we're

[1:04:18] catching that danan do you have a

[1:04:20] preference if it goes under inter

[1:04:22] government relations or Standalone

[1:04:24] paragraph

[1:04:26] no I mean it really can go under both I

[1:04:28] mean you're right Kathleen you're uh

[1:04:30] Jordan's you know doing everything from

[1:04:33] clackmas County Fire to clackmas County

[1:04:36] government to their emergency department

[1:04:39] to the state so it could go

[1:04:40] intergovernmental it could be a

[1:04:42] standalone I'm good either way Jeff why

[1:04:44] do you think it need be own

[1:04:46] paragraph probably because I'm in the

[1:04:48] midst of doing

[1:04:50] the I'm being quite honest yeah I I

[1:04:52] think that we were reminded and chief

[1:04:54] feel free to speak up if you disagree

[1:04:56] but I mean I think we were reminded of

[1:04:57] this is something that gets looked at

[1:05:00] every several years and it probably

[1:05:02] deserves more than that you know and I'm

[1:05:05] I'm I mean that's why I'm conflicted is

[1:05:08] but is but to the earlier point though

[1:05:10] if uh if everyone in government's going

[1:05:13] through this training I mean does it are

[1:05:16] we really it sounds like we're not going

[1:05:18] to hire anyone outside of government so

[1:05:20] sounds like just about everyone's going

[1:05:22] to have gone through this train and be

[1:05:24] able to lean on something

[1:05:26] uh in some sort of

[1:05:28] fashion I'm of the opinion that this is

[1:05:31] something that if they meet all the rest

[1:05:32] of the criteria we can get them trained

[1:05:35] train them set their priorities

[1:05:37] appropriately and and make that happen

[1:05:40] I'm hopeful this area will not keep me

[1:05:42] from selecting somebody we can why don't

[1:05:43] we just put it in intergovernmental

[1:05:46] relation cool let's do

[1:05:49] that okay so we will incorporate in

[1:05:52] intergo intergovernmental relations all

[1:05:55] right um you ready to go back to the

[1:05:57] policy directives y okay any any other

[1:06:01] comments on the Wastewater

[1:06:02] infrastructure

[1:06:05] expansion going going going gone okay uh

[1:06:09] how about the drinking water

[1:06:13] reinvestment looks

[1:06:15] good hearing none I'll move on to the

[1:06:18] next section Community Campus Park

[1:06:20] project can you get the right total

[1:06:22] amount from Jeff it's not 1

[1:06:26] significantly more than that

[1:06:29] okay all right we'll get the right

[1:06:31] number in

[1:06:35] there anything else like that that we

[1:06:39] didn't hit the mark

[1:06:42] on all right I'm Gonna Keep Going uh

[1:06:46] police chief recruitment any comments on

[1:06:48] that the recently began operating I

[1:06:51] don't think it's correct unless I'm

[1:06:53] misunderstanding something

[1:07:05] thought we were close but not

[1:07:07] there

[1:07:09] 247 we've been doing that for a

[1:07:15] long we operate at 24 by okay all

[1:07:20] right well over 20 years okay we'll

[1:07:24] strike we'll strike the recently and

[1:07:26] just say that uh that you run a 247

[1:07:29] service so okay okay now I have a

[1:07:32] question I mean I'm open to uh thoughts

[1:07:35] about it because I know it's kind of

[1:07:36] come up but um it says um the the next

[1:07:39] city manager is expected to lead a

[1:07:41] transparent and fair selection process

[1:07:45] to select the next police chief and I

[1:07:47] was going to put in to lead a

[1:07:48] transparent and fair Recruitment and

[1:07:51] selection

[1:07:52] process how do y'all feel about that

[1:07:56] anybody have a concern about

[1:07:59] that okay we'll put we'll put

[1:08:02] recruitment in there as well thank

[1:08:06] you anything else on the police chief

[1:08:09] well don't give us too much of a thank

[1:08:11] you we haven't picked the firm yet you

[1:08:13] know that was a joke that was a

[1:08:17] joke all right um Workforce capacity and

[1:08:21] space needs assessment any comments on

[1:08:23] that

[1:08:28] not seeing any okay

[1:08:36] um through all that

[1:08:38] um you know the thing that kind of

[1:08:41] concerns me a little bit is you know we

[1:08:44] only have so much tax dollars right now

[1:08:47] and so you know yes we're growing but

[1:08:51] that balance of being able you know the

[1:08:54] reason we're still small is because we

[1:08:55] don't have you know a huge amount of

[1:08:58] money to kind of be hiring all these new

[1:09:00] people and so I understand we need it

[1:09:06] um but it's part of it is it's having to

[1:09:10] kind of balance do we contract out

[1:09:13] certain things or do we hire inh house

[1:09:15] and and so balancing that how to kind of

[1:09:18] you know I I hate to say that do more

[1:09:20] with less but but kind of how to balance

[1:09:23] you know getting things done with our

[1:09:25] growing population but within our

[1:09:27] limited tax base um isn't that kind of

[1:09:31] covered in that next the last sentence

[1:09:35] yeah we expected

[1:09:38] [Music]

[1:09:39] to

[1:09:41] strategies within

[1:09:43] available Avail

[1:09:48] resources enough yeah I think so yeah we

[1:09:51] we definitely heard that and we we were

[1:09:53] trying hard to thread that needle uh to

[1:09:56] make sure that that that concept's in

[1:09:59] there well the other part the other

[1:10:01] thought that came to my mind and I think

[1:10:03] you heard it you heard it from me I know

[1:10:05] about um the whole idea of you know work

[1:10:08] from home versus work in the office you

[1:10:12] heard it from me too

[1:10:14] yeah and so I don't know you know is

[1:10:17] that is that kind of in here or and I'm

[1:10:20] not saying that they need to you know be

[1:10:22] at the office every day or something but

[1:10:24] I see that last last thing yeah I'm

[1:10:26] hoping that was what was meant by that

[1:10:27] last thing was coming up with the

[1:10:29] policies the appropriate policies for

[1:10:32] that sounds pretty detailed I I would

[1:10:33] expect that whoever's in that position

[1:10:36] will look at that very closely and

[1:10:40] decide and we will administer

[1:10:43] his grade at the end of the

[1:10:46] year to me that last one is brought

[1:10:49] enough that you know whatever they have

[1:10:52] to come up with a strategy they got to

[1:10:54] keep us happy

[1:10:56] yeah I mean it's a matter of public

[1:10:59] service and they got to keep their

[1:11:00] employees happy and so yeah okay we

[1:11:04] gotta keep Angie happy

[1:11:07] yeah take

[1:11:10] much that's not what I

[1:11:14] heard all right well thank you and I and

[1:11:18] I I would concur that I I think that

[1:11:20] that's something that would be inherent

[1:11:22] uh with with what's said here

[1:11:26] um it's easy to get down into the weeds

[1:11:28] and some of the policy stuff and uh with

[1:11:30] regard to the work atome issue every

[1:11:32] city that we're working with is dealing

[1:11:34] with that right now um and you know how

[1:11:38] much of that is a change in the norm and

[1:11:39] how much of that is uh this is a a

[1:11:42] one-time deal and you're going to move

[1:11:44] on to other issues

[1:11:48] so okay um so that takes us all the way

[1:11:51] through the profile and with those

[1:11:54] comments so we will make make those

[1:11:56] changes uh and run them by Jeff and

[1:11:58] Angie and make sure that uh um they're

[1:12:01] okay with it so and we assume that

[1:12:05] you're you're all right if they sign off

[1:12:07] on it I'm sorry but I'm gonna back

[1:12:09] appreciation for sing one of the things

[1:12:11] that you asked me was do they need to

[1:12:13] live in San and I said no I don't think

[1:12:15] they do but I want I think it's

[1:12:19] important that they you

[1:12:21] know come to you know evening events or

[1:12:24] go to a after hours you know chamber

[1:12:28] meeting or or um you know do a weekend

[1:12:32] you know solve cleanup or whatever to be

[1:12:34] visible and stuff and so that

[1:12:36] willingness to kind of um show up to you

[1:12:40] know to the Comm so that the community

[1:12:42] is aware of them and and communicating

[1:12:46] with them so I don't know how

[1:12:48] you did that kind of get addressed in

[1:12:50] here it it did counselor uh we did talk

[1:12:53] about visibility in Community I think it

[1:12:56] was under Community engagement okay um

[1:12:59] all right so thank you okay what was

[1:13:03] that by the way I was the same sort of

[1:13:05] boat as kathen n cat person had to be in

[1:13:08] the

[1:13:10] city boundaries just

[1:13:12] curious I don't think it I don't think

[1:13:16] they have to I thought I think I said it

[1:13:19] was preferred not required I thought

[1:13:22] Community the 97055 I because I I

[1:13:25] thought Community visibility is is where

[1:13:28] they need to be seen

[1:13:30] absolutely which is been whether they

[1:13:32] lived here or not if they lived here be

[1:13:34] better but I I wouldn't exclude them if

[1:13:36] they didn't live here I mean when Jordan

[1:13:38] was not that's for sure when a candidate

[1:13:40] asked you how much of my time do I have

[1:13:42] to spend in the office what will you

[1:13:44] tell

[1:13:46] them uh first of all um if they're

[1:13:50] asking that

[1:13:52] question they're not that familiar with

[1:13:54] the job okay um so I mean you're look

[1:13:58] you're looking for somebody who has been

[1:14:00] in the sea Suite um so I work in the

[1:14:04] federal government and a lot of those

[1:14:06] seite people work at home a lot now so

[1:14:10] surprisingly yeah I mean we're we're

[1:14:13] very clear when when candidates ask us

[1:14:15] you know can we work remotely and I've

[1:14:18] had only one candidate in the last three

[1:14:20] years ever asked that question um that

[1:14:25] that uh the answer is no this is I sit

[1:14:28] here educated thank you these are city

[1:14:31] managers right talking about

[1:14:36] yes I think you know given dual careers

[1:14:39] that people face trying to find jobs and

[1:14:42] stuff the fact that you know I me that's

[1:14:45] understandable that they don't

[1:14:46] necessarily have

[1:14:47] to long as they can be visible and

[1:14:51] weekend a weekend day or evening or

[1:14:54] something like that

[1:14:58] I would just say one one last thing to

[1:15:00] go back to what Stan said originally um

[1:15:03] sorry the mayor said originally is any

[1:15:06] way that we could find a different way

[1:15:08] to consider alternative experience

[1:15:11] because I feel like we've got such a

[1:15:14] prescriptive profile here that you know

[1:15:18] when it comes to education and

[1:15:20] experience that somebody who may not be

[1:15:23] more formalized

[1:15:25] will not apply and then that worries me

[1:15:28] about Dei and whether we're being

[1:15:31] inclusive of of everyone and there's

[1:15:33] nothing in here about Dei there's no

[1:15:36] statements about Dei so it I want to

[1:15:39] make sure that we are considering

[1:15:40] alternative Pathways and I know that the

[1:15:42] very front it says equivalent

[1:15:44] combination of Education experience may

[1:15:46] be considered to me that's very benign

[1:15:50] it's not enough to let somebody know

[1:15:52] who's reading this that hey

[1:15:55] let's look at your breath of of

[1:15:57] experience and and and put it in there

[1:16:00] and any way we can articulate that to an

[1:16:02] applicant that we don't scare them away

[1:16:04] with all these details and I don't know

[1:16:06] how you get a good balance with that or

[1:16:08] at least because this is this is like

[1:16:10] long and a lot of stuff so I just want

[1:16:13] to make sure that we're getting a good

[1:16:15] selection of diverse applicants that

[1:16:17] come in and feel like it's a job that

[1:16:20] they get so whoever they be

[1:16:25] like that's almost

[1:16:26] impossible just from the like you said

[1:16:29] from the criteria that's why if you're

[1:16:31] if you're looking for seasoned

[1:16:32] experience you look at the demographics

[1:16:33] of Who currently fills those roles

[1:16:36] across the region I don't think it's a

[1:16:38] very diverse

[1:16:40] group not an org it's

[1:16:42] not one thing concerns me though is I

[1:16:46] was in the forest

[1:16:48] service to there are certain quotas I'll

[1:16:52] put it that way that were required

[1:16:56] I'm not anticipating that here are

[1:16:58] yougive

[1:17:00] me I assume when you do the brochure

[1:17:03] you're gonna say things like we consider

[1:17:04] all candidates yes that's oh

[1:17:09] that's we always but uh the city is an

[1:17:12] equal opportunity employer um yeah so

[1:17:16] we'll cover those Bas be blind when it

[1:17:19] comes

[1:17:20] to yeah but it's I think the hard part

[1:17:23] is

[1:17:25] from an equity diversity and inclusion

[1:17:28] perspective it does require proactively

[1:17:32] recruiting from a broad net and if you

[1:17:35] made the filter criteria so restrictive

[1:17:37] that how how does somebody who falls

[1:17:40] into that category get their first years

[1:17:43] of experience well we're saying not here

[1:17:47] yes that's what we're saying and I'm

[1:17:49] just and I'm just mentioning did we look

[1:17:51] at this did we are we aware of it are we

[1:17:54] we write this out because this is just a

[1:17:57] draft when we get there will we consider

[1:17:59] alternative experience Pathways that

[1:18:02] that aren't necessarily what we've

[1:18:05] outlined um to expand our selection pool

[1:18:11] and I'm not saying underqualified I'm

[1:18:13] saying experienced but in a different

[1:18:15] way um and and how does that person when

[1:18:20] they read this on the

[1:18:23] web and they say I think I might fit

[1:18:26] this and they actually apply because

[1:18:29] what we're talking about is they that

[1:18:31] group of individuals not even applying

[1:18:34] because they feel

[1:18:35] excluded because we've made it so extra

[1:18:38] is there anything that we can or should

[1:18:40] add that would make it more attractive

[1:18:42] to somebody who might feel like go on

[1:18:45] the fren

[1:18:47] sh

[1:18:48] um so first of all let me let me just

[1:18:51] say that uh in our advertising that we

[1:18:54] do for these

[1:18:55] positions uh we advertise nationally we

[1:18:58] also advertise with specific um

[1:19:01] demographic groups um there there is for

[1:19:06] example a a black public administrators

[1:19:08] group um nationally and we advertise

[1:19:11] with them um the same uh with Hispanic

[1:19:16] um so you know we try to cast The Net as

[1:19:20] broadly as possible uh in that regard um

[1:19:24] um the in terms of the the

[1:19:28] terminology um we're very careful about

[1:19:31] the terminology we use we have somebody

[1:19:33] who is on our team who is responsible

[1:19:36] for um applying a Dei lens to all of our

[1:19:40] products and um she's given us great

[1:19:43] advice you know so for example we no

[1:19:46] longer talk about a candidate being a

[1:19:50] fit because fit now is code for a you're

[1:19:58] looking for somebody who's going to be

[1:20:00] just like

[1:20:02] us and uh so we don't use that that

[1:20:06] terminology anymore so we're pretty

[1:20:08] careful about how we uh how we craft

[1:20:12] these to make sure that it's they're not

[1:20:15] exclusionary at least you know to the

[1:20:19] best of our

[1:20:23] abilities yeah

[1:20:25] I mean this says um uh you know you

[1:20:29] mentioned inclusion you know the the

[1:20:31] city manager should demonstrate

[1:20:32] emotional competency transparency

[1:20:34] humility inclusion ethics and

[1:20:37] accessibility when communting all

[1:20:39] individuals or groups and that and that

[1:20:41] said I would also add that

[1:20:44] I you know the the place to get

[1:20:48] um I I couldn't see us hiring somebody

[1:20:51] who doesn't have any cine management

[1:20:54] experience regardless of how great they

[1:20:57] are

[1:20:58] because I think that you know this job

[1:21:01] requires some experience we've got such

[1:21:04] big issues that we're dealing with that

[1:21:06] if you don't have that kind of a

[1:21:08] background you're going to really

[1:21:10] struggle and it's going to be difficult

[1:21:13] to kind of it's it's a very steep

[1:21:15] learning curve if you don't and I don't

[1:21:17] think we can really afford that

[1:21:19] especially you know we've got so much

[1:21:21] going on um I think the place for those

[1:21:23] folks is to kind of get you know

[1:21:26] assistant you know assistant city

[1:21:27] managers and things like that that's

[1:21:29] where you know they can they can learn

[1:21:31] but not not at the top right see

[1:21:34] Kathleen I would I would argue with you

[1:21:36] and say look I and I'm not applying so

[1:21:39] I'm just gonna say this out loud I've

[1:21:40] got 25 years private sector 20 years

[1:21:43] executive level leadership five years

[1:21:45] state government individual leadership

[1:21:47] everything we've just described I have

[1:21:48] all this experience right here I have it

[1:21:50] all I've never been a

[1:21:52] city I've done everything testify in

[1:21:55] front of the senate sit on the w means

[1:21:57] committee and

[1:21:59] testify you don't need City man yeah do

[1:22:02] we want to C

[1:22:04] but but that's I hear what you're saying

[1:22:08] though because you want City management

[1:22:10] experience but I'm saying there are

[1:22:12] other there are other roles that people

[1:22:15] can do to get the same exact experience

[1:22:17] that isn't City man I know over their

[1:22:19] over their career and I don't want to

[1:22:21] exclude people who don't have City

[1:22:23] management experience

[1:22:25] I and I totally get where you're coming

[1:22:26] from and just to kind of have some real

[1:22:28] word experience there you know the

[1:22:30] forest service is you know the the new

[1:22:34] Forest supervisor I don't think ever

[1:22:36] worked for the forest service

[1:22:38] before and you know the same I I believe

[1:22:40] that's the case with the new District

[1:22:41] Ranger at zigzag never worked for the

[1:22:43] for service doesn't know fish you know

[1:22:45] fish from fou you know kind of thing and

[1:22:49] I'm I'm sure they do know fish from fou

[1:22:50] but and I don't mean to to mean that but

[1:22:52] they have that leadership experience in

[1:22:54] all they have to prove themselves in

[1:22:56] that interview process they show that

[1:22:58] they have the experience do those things

[1:23:00] I think that's okay for for certain

[1:23:03] things I do know that you know when

[1:23:05] you're talking about Wilderness policies

[1:23:07] and all those other things you there's

[1:23:09] just some things where it really helps

[1:23:11] when those people have some familiarity

[1:23:13] with what Wilderness is or what the

[1:23:15] forest surface is or things like that

[1:23:17] and so I get that there's you know I I

[1:23:20] think it's important to not limit us but

[1:23:24] I also think sometimes it's helpful if

[1:23:28] they know so so I think we're in a

[1:23:30] pretty good spot because you know Chris

[1:23:33] to your point I don't think we've

[1:23:34] communicated anything to Eric here today

[1:23:38] or or described anything that wouldn't

[1:23:40] take somebody with that skill set that

[1:23:42] you're

[1:23:43] describing and have them potentially

[1:23:46] consider pushing them forward as a you

[1:23:49] know as a potential candidate but to

[1:23:51] Kathleen's point I mean on the city

[1:23:54] experience and the local government

[1:23:55] experience I mean that is clearly

[1:23:57] preferred I think by Council um but you

[1:24:00] know I I don't think anything in here I

[1:24:02] mean if you look at the minimum

[1:24:04] requirement for education I mean it's a

[1:24:06] bachelor's degree you know I mean

[1:24:08] everything else is just uh is just

[1:24:11] preferred and desired skills and

[1:24:13] attributes and so I I you know if you're

[1:24:16] somebody with that kind of experience

[1:24:18] that you're describing Chris I think you

[1:24:19] you you know that you're qualified to be

[1:24:21] a city manager and and you're definitely

[1:24:24] well within your grasp to apply and I'm

[1:24:26] not talking about you I mean someone

[1:24:27] with that experience uh stepping forward

[1:24:29] to apply for it uh but I think you also

[1:24:32] know that you have a bit of a hurdle you

[1:24:34] know you know that you're not a city

[1:24:36] manager and and haven't worked in a you

[1:24:39] know City municipality and so I don't

[1:24:41] think there's anything here that a

[1:24:43] prevents someone of that skill set to

[1:24:45] apply uh but b i I think that individual

[1:24:48] does have a bit of a hurdle and probably

[1:24:50] should knowingly know that you know

[1:24:52] going into the application

[1:24:55] process yeah I agree with you 100% I was

[1:24:57] just contending what I heard councelor

[1:25:00] Walker say which was the city manager

[1:25:03] experience and I'm just saying it's

[1:25:06] similar similar yes I think what we've

[1:25:10] got written up collects a broad set of

[1:25:12] candidates and then when we get to sit

[1:25:14] and deliberate for those top three or

[1:25:16] five or whoever then we can kind of

[1:25:18] weigh that those nuances there I think

[1:25:21] one of the things I've always thought

[1:25:23] that make City manager's application to

[1:25:26] Sandy is that we are connected to a

[1:25:29] whole range of possibilities for

[1:25:32] different ethnic groups you know the

[1:25:34] Portland area we've got the different

[1:25:37] groups that are living here in the city

[1:25:39] as well as you know possibility of

[1:25:41] connecting with them in different parts

[1:25:43] of the metro area I I think if you're

[1:25:46] looking for somebody who might want to

[1:25:48] move to a place that has some diversity

[1:25:50] and the possibilities of finding that

[1:25:52] diversity probably you're in the

[1:25:55] Portland metro

[1:25:57] area Council um if you if you're okay

[1:26:01] with the the profil as it is I I would

[1:26:04] suggest we move on because I do had a

[1:26:06] few of the things I'd like to cover if

[1:26:07] that's all right with you folks

[1:26:11] or yes please

[1:26:14] okay um so with regard to uh the hiring

[1:26:19] procedures this will go a lot quicker um

[1:26:22] the hiring procedures are what we wrote

[1:26:24] up in our proposal so you're not seeing

[1:26:26] anything different than you saw in our

[1:26:28] proposal um we're going to follow that

[1:26:30] same process that that we uh that we had

[1:26:33] outlined um I will um suggest to you

[1:26:38] that there are some uh key points that

[1:26:41] uh I want to make you aware of in in the

[1:26:43] process so we will be uh assuming that

[1:26:47] you do adopt uh the profile and the

[1:26:50] hiring procedures on the 20th uh we

[1:26:53] areed SCH to launch this from on July

[1:26:57] 10th and it'll run to August 6 which we

[1:27:00] typically go for uh 4 weeks that's that

[1:27:04] standard um once we that happens we will

[1:27:08] gather the applications we will apply

[1:27:09] them against the criteria that you have

[1:27:11] outlined for us um and then we will

[1:27:15] interview uh by Zoom uh the the top

[1:27:19] usually it's the top 10 if uh and we

[1:27:23] might go a little above or a little

[1:27:25] below depending upon what we've got in

[1:27:26] the pool um and based on that we will

[1:27:31] come back to you in executive session I

[1:27:33] hope you have this on your schedule on

[1:27:35] August

[1:27:36] 21st um because when we come back we

[1:27:40] will bring you everybody that we've

[1:27:42] interviewed and we will bring you

[1:27:45] notebooks that will have all their App

[1:27:48] application materials in them and we'll

[1:27:50] present those candidates to you and we

[1:27:53] will be looking for you to give us

[1:27:55] guidance as to who you would like to

[1:27:57] move forward up to four candidates move

[1:27:59] forward as finalists um we don't do

[1:28:03] these meetings by Zoom uh because we're

[1:28:06] protective of the candidates uh that

[1:28:08] have not publicly declared that they are

[1:28:12] candidates um so uh that's the reason

[1:28:15] that we do this in hard copy in

[1:28:17] executive

[1:28:19] session um once we get that uh

[1:28:22] designation from you uh we will offer

[1:28:25] you some recommendations But ultimately

[1:28:27] of course it's your decision who you

[1:28:28] want to move forward as finalist uh once

[1:28:31] that happens uh then we will uh start

[1:28:34] doing background checks and reference

[1:28:36] checks uh on the candidates and uh then

[1:28:39] we move into what we refer to as the

[1:28:41] finalist week and these are the other

[1:28:43] dates that we're hoping that you'll have

[1:28:45] on your calendar um so uh the finalist

[1:28:50] week is going to be uh the week of

[1:28:53] September 11

[1:28:55] and starting with Tuesday September 12th

[1:28:58] we have two commun two receptions one

[1:29:01] for the staff and one for the community

[1:29:03] we highly encourage Council to attend

[1:29:07] the community reception as observers to

[1:29:10] see how the candidates interact with

[1:29:13] your

[1:29:14] community um and following that on the

[1:29:18] Wednesday we do panel interviews with

[1:29:20] the department heads with other public

[1:29:22] administrators in the area

[1:29:25] uh as as well as uh with the community

[1:29:29] as with Community

[1:29:31] leaders following that on September 14th

[1:29:34] this is the other date that you'll want

[1:29:35] to have on your calendar on September

[1:29:38] 14th will be your interviews with the

[1:29:40] candidates and we schedule longer

[1:29:42] interviews than we do with the panel

[1:29:43] interviews so you have a chance to uh to

[1:29:47] really talk with the candidates and then

[1:29:49] finally uh on Friday September 15th we

[1:29:52] have the deliberation and so we hope

[1:29:55] that you have that on your calendar as

[1:29:57] well Friday date night

[1:30:00] really date morning yeah it's the

[1:30:02] morning to the morning to the morning

[1:30:05] meeting yeah

[1:30:09] that it's on

[1:30:11] your it

[1:30:14] saying this to

[1:30:16] us I'm sorry counsel is it this says 3

[1:30:20] P.M Friday 15 is it is it where does it

[1:30:24] say that c well I just have a on my

[1:30:27] calendar M

[1:30:28] says for

[1:30:32] okay it should be in the morning okay

[1:30:35] yeah what we'll do during

[1:30:39] that Thursday is a big chunk of the day

[1:30:41] because we have to do all the yeah all

[1:30:43] the Thursday is a killer yeah we do an

[1:30:46] hour and a half interviews so you know

[1:30:48] that's six hours if you have four

[1:30:49] candidates six hours of interviews so um

[1:30:54] going back to the deliberations uh that

[1:30:57] Friday morning um we will download uh

[1:31:03] your perceptions from your interviews we

[1:31:05] will then share with you all the

[1:31:07] feedback that came back from uh the

[1:31:10] references from the background checks

[1:31:12] from the panels from the community or

[1:31:15] from both

[1:31:16] receptions um and after that um we

[1:31:20] facilitated your deliberative process

[1:31:23] and um at that point uh if you have

[1:31:27] chosen the candidate to move forward uh

[1:31:30] what we do is I'll step out of the room

[1:31:32] I'll call that candidate make sure

[1:31:34] they're going to say

[1:31:36] yes and uh come back into executive

[1:31:39] session let you know and I've only had

[1:31:42] one person say no ever but um

[1:31:48] [Music]

[1:31:50] and number two so yeah I mean in the the

[1:31:54] case of the person said no they they

[1:31:55] then moved on to number two on their

[1:31:57] list um but uh we'll come back in to you

[1:32:02] and you come out of executive session

[1:32:05] and you have the opportunity then to

[1:32:07] announce who the selected candidate is

[1:32:10] and all that's happening on Friday yes

[1:32:12] okay does that mean we'll have a regular

[1:32:14] Council session on Friday yeah at a

[1:32:17] undetermined time after the executive

[1:32:19] session concludes so it's a little how

[1:32:20] do you how do you announce

[1:32:22] that the timing thought you had time is

[1:32:25] it a Time certain well we yeah what we

[1:32:27] do is say it will be no no sooner than

[1:32:31] no sooner than sure yeah but but

[1:32:34] following the executive very short

[1:32:36] meeting yeah so are we having a Monday

[1:32:39] meeting too on the

[1:32:41] 18th no we're gonna live here it's on my

[1:32:44] cter I'm just curious I move that we

[1:32:48] don't trying to go camping after that so

[1:32:51] I'm trying to figure out we we'll we'll

[1:32:54] talk with the mayor about the agenda all

[1:32:56] right question and um there's some

[1:33:00] biasness in my question here so I'll try

[1:33:02] not to put it out there describe very

[1:33:03] quickly the

[1:33:05] community reception meeting is it what's

[1:33:08] the invitation look

[1:33:10] like so we rely on on you folks we will

[1:33:14] give you an invite to advertise it to

[1:33:16] the community and we rely on you folks

[1:33:18] to get the word out through your

[1:33:20] networks um and and then it's it's

[1:33:25] whoever comes now what we do is we treat

[1:33:28] it like speed dating so we have we

[1:33:32] divide the the groups up we divide the

[1:33:35] audience up into however many candidates

[1:33:38] there are so if there're four we have

[1:33:39] four different tables and then we rotate

[1:33:42] the candidates between them in 15 or 20

[1:33:45] minute intervals so everybody has a

[1:33:47] chance to meet and talk with them um and

[1:33:50] then when they leave they have an

[1:33:52] opportunity to fill out survey either on

[1:33:54] paper we we have a QR code too that we

[1:33:56] use so they can just do a QR code and

[1:33:59] fill it

[1:34:01] out left or right

[1:34:05] thing all right any any other

[1:34:10] questions so um is I know we've got the

[1:34:14] um session coming up here right to adopt

[1:34:17] this stuff right and then in between

[1:34:19] that and that week of the 11th is there

[1:34:21] any other did I

[1:34:24] there's any other required attendance

[1:34:27] from

[1:34:28] us uh we will have an executive session

[1:34:30] on August 21st to determine the

[1:34:32] finalists

[1:34:35] okay and we we will keep you informed

[1:34:38] through Jeff and Angie um as to how

[1:34:41] things are going so and I just want make

[1:34:44] sure you're I you know I just hear about

[1:34:47] these you know people that got hired and

[1:34:49] afterwards they you know find out

[1:34:54] horrible things that any Google search

[1:34:56] would

[1:34:57] have it says I know I when we hired you

[1:35:00] it said that you guys do all that yes

[1:35:02] before before we do the zoom interviews

[1:35:05] we do a Google search on anything that's

[1:35:07] work

[1:35:08] rated um so that it so if they haven't

[1:35:11] brought it up in their application we

[1:35:13] have a chance to ask them about it okay

[1:35:16] so we want to make sure to give them a a

[1:35:19] fair opportunity to share their site

[1:35:23] so they look into

[1:35:24] [Music]

[1:35:27] our all right I I have one other item

[1:35:29] I'd like to address with you and that

[1:35:31] has to do with the salary

[1:35:33] range um and so first of all um what

[1:35:39] we're looking uh for in this salary

[1:35:41] range is to

[1:35:42] have to have one that that sort of gets

[1:35:48] at the core skills and experience that

[1:35:50] you're looking for that's hitting the

[1:35:51] mark in terms of those C that level of

[1:35:54] candidate can you start with what does

[1:35:57] Jordan

[1:35:59] make I can yeah just yeah no so and I

[1:36:04] think it's important to account for the

[1:36:06] cost of living adjustment that was

[1:36:07] included in the budget that you all just

[1:36:10] adopted so accounting for that uh we

[1:36:13] budgeted for the city

[1:36:15] manager to make

[1:36:18] $163,000 uh in the upcoming year

[1:36:20] starting July 1 for contacts includ

[1:36:23] little things like the car telephone

[1:36:26] that's just gross that's other stuff I

[1:36:27] believe that's just salary um it may

[1:36:30] include the budget Jordan didn't take uh

[1:36:34] benefits so there would be some

[1:36:36] additional it doesn't include health

[1:36:37] insurance it doesn't that's

[1:36:39] just but it doesn't include car phone

[1:36:43] some of the other things that we expect

[1:36:45] them to be gone

[1:36:47] on I believe it's

[1:36:50] just Jeff do you know how that Stacks up

[1:36:52] against Maybe

[1:36:54] five or seven like City sizes I think ER

[1:36:57] er's about to discuss that actually yeah

[1:36:58] he's gonna hand you a piece of paper so

[1:37:00] Jeff can you answer though how much the

[1:37:02] we'll call it the perks or the benefits

[1:37:04] or

[1:37:05] the 450 is the car allowance and 60 is

[1:37:09] the data alls thank

[1:37:11] you do you have kind of a cost of

[1:37:13] government of the whole

[1:37:15] position whole not out of my brain at

[1:37:18] the moment but I can provide that now

[1:37:20] their health insurance and all of that

[1:37:22] is no different you go full family it's

[1:37:24] about 2,000 cost of the city the

[1:37:26] employee will pick up 10% of that cost

[1:37:29] so the same as all the other city

[1:37:32] employees

[1:37:33] okay um so I I'm gonna hand this out and

[1:37:37] that we have 10 comparable cities that

[1:37:40] we looked at we averaged them out um I

[1:37:43] also threw in um some recent recruitment

[1:37:46] ranges from recruitments that we've done

[1:37:49] in the last year um so you can see what

[1:37:52] other cities were offering in terms of a

[1:37:54] range um and then we have a

[1:37:57] recommendation but I'd like to just kind

[1:37:59] of set a little context here um so we've

[1:38:04] been in a situation the last two three

[1:38:06] years where the Market's uh been

[1:38:08] saturated with opportunities and during

[1:38:11] the pandemic we really saw a smaller

[1:38:14] group of pool of candidates come forward

[1:38:17] um where we used to get 30 40

[1:38:20] applications um we were starting to get

[1:38:23] more along the lines of

[1:38:25] 10 um that that has started to change

[1:38:31] and the last one we did we I believe we

[1:38:33] had 25 applications uh on on the last

[1:38:37] city manager recruitment that we

[1:38:39] did it was a very deep

[1:38:42] bench um and I is that a small City on

[1:38:45] the other side of the mountain it might

[1:38:47] have been on the other side of the

[1:38:48] mountain

[1:38:50] yes um they had some very compe

[1:38:53] comptitive

[1:38:55] candidates yeah I don't

[1:39:00] know so um you know we're also facing a

[1:39:04] situation with the housing market where

[1:39:05] most cities are um are seeing a rise in

[1:39:09] in housing and so it makes it more

[1:39:12] difficult for candidates who might be

[1:39:14] coming from a smaller city where the

[1:39:16] where the housing is cheaper to be able

[1:39:19] to move to a city where it's more

[1:39:22] expensive

[1:39:23] um we've also seen inflation happening

[1:39:26] right now and that's impacting uh

[1:39:29] salaries as well as um we're finding

[1:39:32] that candidates are being more selective

[1:39:34] uh because they can

[1:39:36] be um and so you know it still is uh

[1:39:42] we'll see how things go but it's still a

[1:39:44] candidate's market at the moment we may

[1:39:46] be seeing a pivot here um but uh it it's

[1:39:52] such that we have seen candidates drop

[1:39:55] out of the finalist

[1:39:56] process along the way too so so as

[1:40:01] you're getting ready to put that out

[1:40:02] what does a range mean I mean I

[1:40:05] understand what a range means in the

[1:40:06] private sector what does a range mean

[1:40:08] for these kinds of

[1:40:10] posters what determines where they land

[1:40:12] within the range well that is uh first

[1:40:15] of all that's your discretion um but

[1:40:18] generally speaking the more experience

[1:40:21] and the more check boxes that they've

[1:40:23] checked off on your attributes list okay

[1:40:26] should bring them any other private

[1:40:29] sector yeah we advertise it for range

[1:40:32] and then we determin where they fit

[1:40:33] within that yes I thought we negotiate a

[1:40:37] little bit with Jordan there will be

[1:40:39] negotiation there was with Jordan I'm

[1:40:41] pretty sure that we ended up figuring

[1:40:42] out because he wanted something and we

[1:40:45] wanted something else yeah you know on

[1:40:48] once you've made a selection there's

[1:40:49] still a

[1:40:53] hey stretch legs I did want to clarify

[1:40:57] councelor exner I I was able to look it

[1:40:59] up the number of 163 actually does

[1:41:03] include the vehicle it doesn't include

[1:41:05] any other but it does include the

[1:41:06] vehicle does just say how long the city

[1:41:09] manager been in those roles that have

[1:41:10] that W so I'm assuming the City Works a

[1:41:13] lot the state they go they have steps

[1:41:16] that they move so it used to be so our

[1:41:18] city manager used to be on our salary

[1:41:20] schedule and it's not anymore it's a

[1:41:21] contract so we have a

[1:41:26] okay all right so what you have in front

[1:41:29] of you uh there were 10 cities that we

[1:41:31] we took a look at and these are current

[1:41:34] salaries uh ston Malala Silverton

[1:41:37] Cottage Grove Monmouth Gladstone

[1:41:39] Cornelius the DS Troutdale and

[1:41:42] Dallas um and the populations range uh

[1:41:46] between uh 8,000 and

[1:41:49] 18,000 uh population and these are in

[1:41:52] order of the size of the

[1:41:54] population uh so you can see the

[1:41:56] salaries there on the right hand side

[1:41:59] and um you know the the lowest salary

[1:42:03] being uh with Silverton at at 135 and

[1:42:07] change 135,000 and change um the Sal the

[1:42:12] highest salary being in Gladstone uh at

[1:42:16] 185,000 and change so that that's kind

[1:42:21] of the range these salaries average out

[1:42:24] to

[1:42:26] 154,000 uh actually I didn't realize we

[1:42:29] put the sense in there but

[1:42:32] uh 451 and 33 cents um so that's what

[1:42:38] the average looks like the recent

[1:42:42] recruitments that we've done sisters uh

[1:42:45] had $ 120 to

[1:42:47] $60,000 range with a population of 3,400

[1:42:51] ston was 122 to

[1:42:54] 152,000 with a population of 88,200 and

[1:42:58] some uh Fairview uh was 135 to 160

[1:43:04] population over just over 10,000 and

[1:43:07] Cornelius uh was 140 to

[1:43:11] 175,000 uh and their population is

[1:43:14] 14,000 and some so um looking looking at

[1:43:20] what other cities have been doing uh

[1:43:22] look looking at the average um and what

[1:43:26] you're looking for our recommendation is

[1:43:29] that you go out with 140 to

[1:43:32] 170,000 as your as your range why not

[1:43:38] 175 you can I mean log for not being the

[1:43:42] top dog out there what is

[1:43:45] it um well we wanted to make sure that

[1:43:48] we were uh being within your your

[1:43:51] budgetary means now

[1:43:54] um so I I guess I would have to defer to

[1:43:58] you on that obviously the higher you

[1:44:01] go the more qualified candidates

[1:44:04] theoretically will apply yeah right and

[1:44:08] and sorry does this the salary we're

[1:44:10] talking about include the the car thing

[1:44:12] or not that's a negotiation Point some

[1:44:16] some of this is subject to how you

[1:44:17] negotiate I think people are going to

[1:44:18] interpret this as Bas sub right I agree

[1:44:21] with that I agree with that

[1:44:23] so so one one concern I I have maybe is

[1:44:29] having just gone through the interum

[1:44:31] city manager

[1:44:34] negotiation uh with Tyler and so I I

[1:44:37] have a little bit of a feeling for what

[1:44:39] the assistants and and and folks that

[1:44:41] are direct reports are making I mean

[1:44:44] wouldn't we possibly be in a situation

[1:44:46] where we'd be hiring a city manager

[1:44:48] that's making less than their direct

[1:44:50] reports under this salary range

[1:44:54] we should not be so our direct reports

[1:44:57] will be under this amount at the

[1:45:00] low yes so we're we're okay there

[1:45:04] mayor okay okay well somebody was

[1:45:07] mentioning 175 and you know the car

[1:45:10] allowances ends up to be almost $5,000 a

[1:45:13] year so going with 170 and then having

[1:45:16] another five my point is when you

[1:45:18] advertise this if if you have a 17 it

[1:45:23] looks more attractive than a 170 that

[1:45:26] doesn't mean that we won't offer 140 for

[1:45:29] the car allowance depending on their

[1:45:30] qualifications

[1:45:32] but it's I I I think we should be

[1:45:35] competitive with a Cornelius that's or

[1:45:38] whoever else goes out you know at the

[1:45:41] same time as or the Troutdale city

[1:45:43] manager well that's exactly right I

[1:45:45] don't want any I don't want anyone not

[1:45:47] applying because of the high-end part of

[1:45:49] that salary is kind of where I'm at I I

[1:45:52] I want someone who thinks that they

[1:45:54] deserve more than that to consider

[1:45:56] applying for this position and we are

[1:45:59] growing we're definitely would be

[1:46:02] wanting to give this person this

[1:46:05] person's really good raises as to go

[1:46:08] along did Jordan I would expect us to

[1:46:11] think the same kind of respects so I

[1:46:13] guess I'm in favor of

[1:46:14] 175 Angie how does the do these work

[1:46:18] like normal

[1:46:21] civil normal City jobs where there's

[1:46:23] like you bump up at you know a certain

[1:46:25] percentage or anything like that no so

[1:46:27] all your directors are they're all on

[1:46:29] the salary schedule and they'll max out

[1:46:30] at you know range seven um but this is a

[1:46:33] contract position so you guys can set

[1:46:35] the salary with what you want um my

[1:46:38] understanding right now with budget wise

[1:46:39] like pretty much anything over 165 170

[1:46:42] there's going to have to be a budget

[1:46:44] adjustment so I guess my question is you

[1:46:47] bring you bring you bring somebody in at

[1:46:50] 160 right is there is is there a a

[1:46:54] process to get them to 175 or is that

[1:46:56] something that we continue to negotiate

[1:46:58] so how we had Jordans is that as we do a

[1:47:00] cost of living that city manager also

[1:47:02] gets cost of living increase so they'll

[1:47:04] get that bump and then you do have

[1:47:06] negotiability in regards to how you say

[1:47:08] somebody may say I don't want the car

[1:47:10] allowance I would prefer to have this or

[1:47:13] you you have some ability to do some

[1:47:15] negotiation there um but I don't know if

[1:47:18] I'm answering your question no just I'm

[1:47:21] wondering how we how we get from 16 to

[1:47:23] the top end is that is that a set like

[1:47:25] three and a half% a year on top of your

[1:47:27] Cola or is that is that is that

[1:47:30] something that we negotiate every year

[1:47:31] when we do their their evaluation what

[1:47:33] does that look like there you go that's

[1:47:35] it it's the evaluation typically a city

[1:47:37] manager applicant will that'll be an

[1:47:40] important part of the they'll say I want

[1:47:41] an annual review and that'll be an

[1:47:43] opportunity to discuss but this range

[1:47:46] doesn't limit what those RWS go this is

[1:47:49] just this is the initial

[1:47:50] initial it's not like a government pay

[1:47:53] where that is the max you'll ever get to

[1:47:54] while you're a grade 14 or whatever it's

[1:47:56] a contract employee it's different I'm

[1:47:58] assuming we could start at 140 if you

[1:47:59] wanted to negotiate yes you could but

[1:48:02] that's the same go ahead I'm in favor

[1:48:04] 175 at least there's a part of me that's

[1:48:07] even wondering about 1 so I have a

[1:48:10] question on that um so and I don't know

[1:48:13] how I'd like to get some insights on how

[1:48:16] with with Jordan but you know if you say

[1:48:19] top is

[1:48:20] 175 and then you pick person you know

[1:48:24] can they say well you know I I want I

[1:48:26] want 180 or whatever so I mean

[1:48:29] does is 175 our top or or is that the

[1:48:33] top where they the person the selected

[1:48:35] person starts

[1:48:37] negotiating how did that work with

[1:48:38] Jordan I guess well it's different with

[1:48:40] Jordan because we had him on the salary

[1:48:41] schedule so when somebody's on the

[1:48:43] salary schedule you can't go off you

[1:48:45] can't go over the top of that salary

[1:48:47] schedule so if 120 is the top that is

[1:48:49] the top we can provide there's some

[1:48:51] additionals like you can add the car

[1:48:53] than or the data allowance in this

[1:48:55] scenario um you have negotiability so

[1:48:58] you really don't have a to what you put

[1:49:01] a range down you are trying to say to

[1:49:03] the candidate this is the top of the

[1:49:05] range we're not going to go above that

[1:49:06] and the reason for that is based off

[1:49:09] what you have as your attributes and

[1:49:11] what you are requiring of this candidate

[1:49:13] you are saying this position is worth

[1:49:15] this salary so you want a range for

[1:49:19] negotiability but you also don't want to

[1:49:22] not have have a top to also say this is

[1:49:25] what this physician can pay for um

[1:49:29] that's where it gets a little bit like

[1:49:31] you look at a trout or you look at um

[1:49:34] let's say you're out in mou and you

[1:49:36] can't find a candidate to go out there

[1:49:37] they may pay more than say we are

[1:49:39] because it's really difficult to get a

[1:49:41] candidate to move out to M and stay so

[1:49:44] sometimes you're also paying based off

[1:49:46] location or difficulty in recruitment um

[1:49:50] I actually think we will probably

[1:49:52] believe a lot of candidates for this

[1:49:54] position even if we go to 175 counselor

[1:49:57] um you're going that's a good that's a

[1:50:00] good healthy range but where do you so

[1:50:02] with the negotiations then you know do

[1:50:04] we start in the middle and and and then

[1:50:07] we say well we since you only have you

[1:50:09] know 10 years and not 20 years that's

[1:50:11] why we're not going up to 175 or how

[1:50:13] does all that so so welcome to

[1:50:15] Recruitment and

[1:50:16] to and to uh working on negotiations so

[1:50:20] basically you take a look at the

[1:50:22] candidates the top four and then you

[1:50:23] interview and as Eric said earlier in

[1:50:26] essence you're going to say this

[1:50:28] candidate is coming to us highly

[1:50:30] qualified then you know you're probably

[1:50:32] going to need to put out an offer that's

[1:50:34] quantifying to that experience if you

[1:50:37] have somebody coming in that maybe

[1:50:38] doesn't have the same thing and we know

[1:50:40] that they're going to be on a learning

[1:50:41] curve here here and here then we're

[1:50:43] going to say all right you're probably

[1:50:44] going to start lower on that range and

[1:50:47] then we're going to work it up you also

[1:50:49] have the flexibility to say in a year

[1:50:51] we're going to re evaluate and at that

[1:50:53] point we're going to give you a $5,000

[1:50:55] bom so you guys have some flexibility on

[1:50:57] what we work on it's going to be based

[1:51:00] off the candidate that sits in front of

[1:51:01] you and what they're bringing to the

[1:51:03] table I don't know if that okay so I'm

[1:51:07] also looking at your list of prices here

[1:51:10] on different city managers in and around

[1:51:13] us I

[1:51:15] see there's a lot of them that would be

[1:51:17] getting a raise assuming that they were

[1:51:20] highly skilled and I have to know a

[1:51:21] couple or three of the these um I I like

[1:51:25] being able to say to some of these local

[1:51:27] folks you know might get a raise if you

[1:51:31] so to me I think up the the annual

[1:51:36] amount I think is

[1:51:38] important I stretch her even further

[1:51:40] because I looked at the same thing Carl

[1:51:42] I said look at State and

[1:51:44] Malala and sub these are cities all

[1:51:47] under 10 say 10,000 or less we're bigger

[1:51:49] than them they're 135 to 149

[1:51:53] why shouldn't our minimum be 150 and

[1:51:55] then why can't our top be

[1:51:57] 180 because that's a range and if you're

[1:52:00] starting at 150 you're beating all your

[1:52:01] small cities that are underpopulated for

[1:52:03] us so you're going to get one of those

[1:52:05] city managers or somebody with

[1:52:06] experience coming to us that's going to

[1:52:07] have upward mobility and then if you

[1:52:09] have somebody in in a larger City like a

[1:52:12] like it says here like a a trale for

[1:52:14] instance who's 177,000 I'm not

[1:52:16] advocating for those managers at all in

[1:52:17] the same positions that that's not going

[1:52:20] to be a far stretch for them to come to

[1:52:21] Sandy and make the same amount of money

[1:52:23] which is a smaller town so I I like the

[1:52:25] 150 to 180 range myself so let's

[1:52:28] consider a hypothetical example of an

[1:52:30] assistant um city manager who's making I

[1:52:33] don't know what's our last contract with

[1:52:35] our Deputy with our acting our acting

[1:52:38] that R for me manager let me do some

[1:52:41] quick MTH yeah because that he would be

[1:52:44] representative of a candidate coming in

[1:52:47] who hadn't been in the top seat but

[1:52:50] maybe was reasonably qualified right

[1:52:53] so how big of a bump do you want you

[1:52:56] don't want to make it too big you know

[1:52:58] you want nice like on the old schedule

[1:53:00] there' be a step one coming in right so

[1:53:02] what's that where where they ATS but the

[1:53:05] numbers don't say this is what we have

[1:53:07] to it's just what we are thinking about

[1:53:10] and I guess to Angie's point it could be

[1:53:12] 140 if we said 150 to 180 for example or

[1:53:17] 185 if we get to that kind of C it's

[1:53:20] quite the welcoming package though

[1:53:23] last in the bottom tier of the range you

[1:53:25] posted sure I agree with you face it

[1:53:28] you're going to start mid level

[1:53:30] absolutely I mean that's where you're

[1:53:32] that's where most that's where most of

[1:53:33] this is gonna start and I will point out

[1:53:35] Jordan's you know if if that included

[1:53:37] the car stuff his you know actual salary

[1:53:39] was like

[1:53:40] 158 his actual salary if you well I mean

[1:53:44] so I did the math here it at 163 if you

[1:53:47] just add the data would be 163

[1:53:50] 720 but the car allowance is like they

[1:53:53] said that was included in that number

[1:53:55] right and that's with the that's with

[1:53:57] the increase with the cola right right

[1:53:59] okay and so his actual salary was like

[1:54:02] 158 which is what this is that's why I

[1:54:05] said our range our range doesn't include

[1:54:09] right what we're talking about 175 that

[1:54:11] doesn't include a cart thing right it's

[1:54:13] just a starting St and so that's what

[1:54:15] I'm saying that's you know I I mean I

[1:54:18] guess if you want to go up to 175 I can

[1:54:20] go along with that but I'm not we don't

[1:54:22] have to have the car just because Jordan

[1:54:25] had it doesn't mean

[1:54:29] this coun I mean so I mean that's just a

[1:54:32] way

[1:54:33] to that was if I may you wrong that

[1:54:36] seemed like just looking at it from a

[1:54:38] different level it just seemed like kind

[1:54:39] of like a way to circumvent the pay

[1:54:41] scale you to there's different ways to

[1:54:45] incentivize the P there we go thank you

[1:54:48] so I mean but we're lump with doing this

[1:54:51] we would just be kind of lumpy not in

[1:54:52] there and we don't need that incate in

[1:54:55] theory

[1:54:57] anymore where I I guess I'd like to be

[1:55:00] able to offer like after a year you know

[1:55:03] because you never just know what you're

[1:55:05] going to get and so I'd rather kind of

[1:55:06] start one place and then say we're

[1:55:08] looking at a you know a 10% you know a

[1:55:10] cola plus what you know based on a

[1:55:13] positive you know and you will I'm

[1:55:16] assuming Eric that when we provide

[1:55:18] profiles there's also going to be in

[1:55:20] their salary requirements that the

[1:55:22] candidat is also we're going to be made

[1:55:24] aware of so a lot of this is a little

[1:55:26] bit like the cart in front of their

[1:55:27] horse that as we get closer this will be

[1:55:30] an actual easier decision than it seems

[1:55:33] right now yeah so

[1:55:40] what council if I may um the the range

[1:55:46] that you put out right now is really you

[1:55:50] know how do you want to attract people

[1:55:52] just to put their application in once

[1:55:56] you've selected a candidate you have all

[1:55:59] sorts of bells and whistles available to

[1:56:02] you to put together a package whether

[1:56:05] it's a car allowance or whether it's a

[1:56:07] not of vacation time or whether it's uh

[1:56:10] something else but that that happens

[1:56:13] during the negotiation phase um and so I

[1:56:16] I would encourage you to just think

[1:56:18] about what is it that what's the range

[1:56:21] that's going to get them to put the

[1:56:23] application in and then you can worry

[1:56:24] about the bells and whistles when you

[1:56:26] get to the negotiations so this side of

[1:56:29] the room was at

[1:56:31] 175 I'm actually with Chris I'm cool

[1:56:34] with a one 150 to 180 that 150 to

[1:56:38] 180 I can live with that how about you

[1:56:42] mayor yeah I'm good with

[1:56:45] that

[1:56:47] kle does

[1:56:49] that put too big a jump

[1:56:52] you 18 if you want to keep it at if you

[1:56:56] want to keep it 140 to 180 let's keep it

[1:56:59] let's keep it at the low inch just in

[1:57:01] case we get somebody at the entry at

[1:57:03] that entry level that probably won't

[1:57:06] with if if we get that many candidates

[1:57:08] but 180 is are actually GNA be you know

[1:57:10] when you add all the other add-ons yeah

[1:57:12] it's 140 to 180 at this point it's all

[1:57:15] just bait just to get somebody jump at

[1:57:18] that hook right yeah yeah this this is

[1:57:21] not a Amendment this is just for

[1:57:23] advertising purp 140 to 180 I mean if

[1:57:27] that

[1:57:28] Ian you good with that absolutely so I I

[1:57:32] just want to I just want to confirm what

[1:57:34] I think I just heard so you want 140 to

[1:57:37] 180 yeah okay very good that that's a

[1:57:41] that is a good range um I will tell you

[1:57:44] that I'm already getting phone calls um

[1:57:48] in interest in this position so uh I I

[1:57:51] think uh we're heading in the right

[1:57:53] direction sweet well then let's move it

[1:57:55] down to

[1:57:58] 120

[1:58:04] Le we just

[1:58:08] away the negotiations will be later

[1:58:11] nobody this is the mayor anyway

[1:58:15] so

[1:58:17] I are we there anything else you had to

[1:58:19] cover I we have everything we need be

[1:58:22] able to move forward so okay mayor I

[1:58:24] think that's everything if you have any

[1:58:25] closing remarks no just thank you

[1:58:28] everybody uh really exciting um I think

[1:58:31] obviously we're all on the same page and

[1:58:33] thank you for your presentation uh

[1:58:35] really appreciated the work done so

[1:58:37] far thank you all right I'll go ahead

[1:58:40] and close the work session thank you

[1:58:41] everybody you're going have

City Council - 12 Jun 2023

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