[0:00] Okay, the hour of 6:30 having arrived,

[0:03] I'd like to call the regular plan

[0:05] commission meeting for the city of

[0:07] Columbus to order.

[0:09] Mike, will you call the roll?

[0:14] » Binkler

[0:15] >> Here.

[0:16] » Here.

[0:16] >> Myers

[0:17] » Myers

[0:17] >> Here.

[0:21] » That was weird.

[0:23] Albright

[0:24] >> Present.

[0:26] » Present.

[0:26] >> Uriah

[0:26] » Uriah

[0:26] >> Present.

[0:28] » Present.

[0:28] >> Juszkiewicz

[0:28] » Juszkiewicz

[0:28] >> Here.

[0:29] » Here.

[0:29] >> Stuke

[0:29] » Stuke

[0:29] >> Here.

[0:31] » Here.

[0:31] >> We have a quorum. Great.

[0:34] » We have a quorum. Great.

[0:34] >> [sighs and gasps]

[0:35] » [sighs and gasps]

[0:35] >> Okay, this meeting was properly posted

[0:38] » Okay, this meeting was properly posted

[0:38] in accordance with state law.

[0:42] Uh there's a agenda in your packets.

[0:44] I'll entertain a motion to approve or

[0:46] amend.

[0:47] >> I'll move to approve.

[0:49] » I'll move to approve.

[0:49] >> Second.

[0:50] » Second.

[0:50] >> I have a motion and a second. All those

[0:52] » I have a motion and a second. All those

[0:52] in favor signify by I.

[0:54] >> I.

[0:54] » I.

[0:54] >> I.

[0:55] » I.

[0:55] >> Opposed?

[0:56] » Opposed?

[0:56] We have our agenda.

[0:58] Uh minutes are also in your packet from

[1:00] last month.

[1:02] I'll entertain a motion to approve or

[1:04] amend.

[1:18] » I'd make a motion to approve.

[1:24] » I'll second that.

[1:27] >> I have a motion and a second. Any

[1:28] » I have a motion and a second. Any

[1:28] discussion?

[1:30] All those in favor signify by I.

[1:32] >> I.

[1:32] » I.

[1:32] >> I.

[1:34] » I.

[1:34] >> Opposed?

[1:36] » Opposed?

[1:36] Minutes are approved.

[1:39] Okay, moving on to our first item of

[1:42] regular business. We have a public

[1:44] hearing regarding the amendment of

[1:46] parking spaces requirements

[1:49] section 114-26.

[1:53] All right, I'll open the public hearing

[1:55] and ask if any member of the public

[1:56] wishes to speak on this item.

[2:02] For a second time, does any member of

[2:03] the public wish to speak on this item?

[2:07] Mike, was anything sent to you?

[2:08] >> No.

[2:09] » No.

[2:09] >> Okay.

[2:09] » Okay.

[2:09] >> Nothing.

[2:10] » Nothing.

[2:10] >> Receive no comments.

[2:12] » Receive no comments.

[2:12] >> Okay.

[2:13] » Okay.

[2:13] >> And for a final time, any member of the

[2:15] » And for a final time, any member of the

[2:16] public wishing to speak on this item.

[2:21] Hearing none, I'll close the public

[2:23] hearing and move on to item three for

[2:27] the commission to consider and take

[2:28] action regarding the repeal and

[2:29] replacement of municipal code 114-126

[2:33] regarding required parking spaces.

[2:37] >> Um this is

[2:38] » Um this is

[2:38] what we discussed

[2:42] uh

[2:42] pre- previously earlier in the year. The

[2:45] reason we're doing this separate is to

[2:48] support uh WEDA programs for residential

[2:53] housing in in downtown.

[2:56] Um that application period is

[2:58] in October and beginning in November.

[3:01] So, if we don't get this adopted now,

[3:05] then then people aren't eligible for low

[3:07] interest loans for downtown uh project

[3:10] redevelopment projects.

[3:12] Um so, this is one of the items on

[3:15] today's agenda that helps to move us

[3:18] allow

[3:19] people to access those low interest loan

[3:21] funds.

[3:23] So,

[3:23] um this is essentially what we discussed

[3:26] previously. Um

[3:30] uh

[3:31] This is just the parking space amendment

[3:35] to the section of the parking code that

[3:38] addresses number of parking spaces

[3:40] required. It doesn't address other

[3:43] parking stuff. So,

[3:44] um we're trying to keep it simple and

[3:46] still

[3:47] meet the requirements for uh WEDA

[3:49] financing. So,

[3:51] um

[3:53] Any questions?

[4:00] » Questions? You know, we've we've talked

[4:02] about this at length, so.

[4:05] Um, all right. Well, for that reason,

[4:09] if there's no comment or discussion,

[4:12] I'll entertain a motion to

[4:15] uh, recommend to council.

[4:18] >> I'll move to recommend to council for

[4:20] » I'll move to recommend to council for

[4:20] approval.

[4:21] >> I'll second.

[4:22] » I'll second.

[4:23] >> Have a motion and a second.

[4:25] » Have a motion and a second.

[4:25] All those in favor signify by saying I.

[4:28] >> I.

[4:28] » I.

[4:28] >> I.

[4:29] » I.

[4:29] >> Opposed?

[4:31] » Opposed?

[4:31] Great.

[4:32] Please forward to council.

[4:38] All right.

[4:41] More organization is necessary. Hang on

[4:43] just a moment.

[4:46] Okay.

[4:48] Uh, moving on to item four, consider and

[4:51] take action regarding the condominium

[4:52] plat for Lamps Landing LLC located on

[4:55] Tower Drive.

[4:57] All right. Mike, you want to introduce

[4:59] your staff report here?

[5:02] >> Yeah, um,

[5:03] » Yeah, um,

[5:03] this is uh,

[5:05] the

[5:07] eight twin home units, four buildings,

[5:09] eight dwelling units.

[5:11] Um, previously you approved the CSM

[5:15] um,

[5:17] with conditions, um, and we just

[5:21] uh, took

[5:23] that CSM, the uh, changes have been

[5:26] received recently, so we're checking

[5:27] those over.

[5:28] Um,

[5:30] we also have items in the review letter

[5:32] for the condo plat from our city

[5:34] engineer. Um, about a half hour ago we

[5:37] received an updated condo plat

[5:41] um, addressing many of those things.

[5:44] Uh, we haven't had time to look those

[5:46] over, but uh they are moving forward

[5:49] with trying to get that um done. Um

[5:53] So, essentially, there's uh um you can

[5:56] kind of see also see the future layout

[6:00] of the apartment um

[6:01] to the north, but that's not the issue

[6:04] today. It's the twin homes um

[6:08] and the platting of that, and uh our

[6:11] city engineer uh provided comments

[6:14] um

[6:15] that need to be addressed, and uh

[6:18] uh

[6:21] You know, you can see it includes

[6:23] stormwater

[6:24] um

[6:26] Uh the development agreement, you know,

[6:28] limited access to Tower Drive to two

[6:30] driveways because of traffic concerns on

[6:33] Tower, so this would be one of the two

[6:36] driveways.

[6:42] Um

[6:44] Any questions?

[6:46] >> How are they owned?

[6:49] » How are they owned?

[6:49] >> Uh twin homes uh through a condominium

[6:51] » Uh twin homes uh through a condominium

[6:52] association.

[6:53] >> Okay.

[6:56] » They considered town homes?

[6:59] Because there are two, or no?

[7:01] >> They're considered twin homes.

[7:03] » They're considered twin homes.

[7:03] >> Okay.

[7:06] » Like a duplex, except not,

[7:08] probably.

[7:09] >> No, I I don't recall us ever calling

[7:11] » No, I I don't recall us ever calling

[7:11] them

[7:12] >> I don't

[7:13] » I don't

[7:13] That's all.

[7:20] » Is the legal arrangement that defines

[7:23] what the common areas are and the

[7:25] private areas are? Is that all part of

[7:28] the condo plat that we're approving

[7:29] tonight, or is that a separate

[7:30] instrument?

[7:33] » Um

[7:35] That would That would be separate

[7:37] instrument.

[7:39] Um

[7:42] I'd have to pull up the review letter. I

[7:43] thought maybe that was addressed in

[7:45] there.

[7:47] Um

[7:49] But yeah

[7:51] um

[7:54] that would be

[7:55] addressed in there um

[8:00] Let me just pull up the review letter

[8:01] and see what else.

[8:04] » Cuz there's always a lot of moving

[8:05] parts, right? There's the There's the

[8:07] legal record of the the

[8:10] the condo plat. There's the site plan

[8:13] which we're not we're not reviewing.

[8:15] >> They still need to uh include covenants

[8:18] » They still need to uh include covenants

[8:19] and those kinds of things too uh that

[8:21] that that should be part of the condo

[8:23] plat.

[8:24] Um and Josh is online.

[8:28] >> Yep, I'm here.

[8:29] » Yep, I'm here.

[8:30] >> There he is.

[8:31] » There he is.

[8:31] >> Yep, I'm here.

[8:33] » Yep, I'm here.

[8:33] You know, Mike, I have all the condo

[8:35] docs. All that stuff's done and uh I can

[8:37] send it to you. You know, it's it's set

[8:39] up just like a normal small condo

[8:41] association set up.

[8:45] » I I guess my question is that is that

[8:47] part of

[8:49] the plat itself?

[8:52] >> No. Typically, I mean, the city council

[8:55] » No. Typically, I mean, the city council

[8:55] would approve that portion, I would

[8:57] think. You know, that's how they did it

[8:58] in Windsor and Deforest, but I've never

[8:59] done a condo project in Columbus.

[9:09] It's pretty straightforward. I mean, I I

[9:10] I'd rather have an apartment building

[9:11] there, but that's what you guys wanted

[9:13] me to put there, so.

[9:15] >> Yeah, I mean, I understand it's I

[9:17] » Yeah, I mean, I understand it's I

[9:17] understand the documents are not

[9:18] complicated. I I guess what I'm trying

[9:21] to make sure that I'm asking is that

[9:24] if this if the

[9:26] recorded part of the

[9:29] condo agreement is part of the plat

[9:34] then doesn't it stand to reason that it

[9:35] should be in front of us here for

[9:39] >> I don't know what you're going to do

[9:40] » I don't know what you're going to do

[9:40] with the

[9:41] I don't know what you're going to do

[9:41] with the condominium documents, but

[9:44] I mean, they were sent

[9:46] they were done 2 months ago.

[9:48] Like I said, if this doesn't get taken

[9:49] care of and approved, I'm not going to

[9:51] do this stuff till next year. So, I I

[9:53] build stuff in the fall, so it's done in

[9:55] the summer. That's my timeline. And if

[9:58] if it's not going to work, then we'll

[9:59] just revisit next year.

[10:01] I'll start my SunPrairie project then.

[10:04] >> I understand. I'm not trying to be

[10:05] » I understand. I'm not trying to be

[10:05] combative. I'm trying to make sure that

[10:07] >> I'm not trying to be combative either,

[10:08] » I'm not trying to be combative either,

[10:08] but what's supposed to be in front of us

[10:09] here? I told the city of Columbus when I

[10:10] bought this property from them that I

[10:13] wanted to do this this year. I mean,

[10:14] there there is a need for housing in

[10:16] Columbus. I mean, those 45 apartments

[10:18] rented out in 30 days.

[10:23] And if we can't figure that out, then we

[10:25] might as well just get our ducks in a

[10:27] row and do this in uh 2028.

[10:32] » Will you give us a minute?

[10:33] >> Sure.

[10:35] » Sure.

[10:35] >> Great.

[10:38] » Um

[10:42] we shared this with the city engineer,

[10:45] and I don't see any

[10:49] uh

[10:53] comments regarding that.

[10:59] Um

[11:08] This is middle of real car.

[11:14] This may not include all city

[11:16] requirements for the submittal.

[11:20] Right. Right.

[11:24] » The

[11:24] council, are we

[11:25] are we actually approving or is it are

[11:27] we recommending?

[11:28] Council

[11:29] >> We're recommending.

[11:30] » We're recommending.

[11:30] >> Right. You're recommending.

[11:31] » Right. You're recommending.

[11:31] >> Yeah, it's going to council.

[11:33] » Yeah, it's going to council.

[11:33] >> Um right. Land division still goes to

[11:35] » Um right. Land division still goes to

[11:35] council. Yeah.

[11:36] >> I mean a motion could be made depending

[11:39] » I mean a motion could be made depending

[11:39] on any additional requirements.

[11:41] Right?

[11:43] Can I just ask a question, Uriah?

[11:44] >> Yeah.

[11:45] » Yeah.

[11:45] >> Is it required to have the condo

[11:47] » Is it required to have the condo

[11:47] agreement

[11:48] >> know. My question was a honest question

[11:51] » know. My question was a honest question

[11:51] that was not intended to be any kind of

[11:53] gotcha.

[11:54] >> Right. Right. You're just trying to ask

[11:56] » Right. Right. You're just trying to ask

[11:56] if it is required.

[11:57] >> Right. Is if it's part of the condo plat

[12:01] » Right. Is if it's part of the condo plat

[12:01] then

[12:02] it stands to reason that it should be

[12:05] part of this packet part of this

[12:06] consideration.

[12:10] » [snorts]

[12:11] >> Um

[12:12] » Um

[12:12] So, my I guess I do have a So, why do we

[12:15] think there's a possibility that would

[12:17] have to be in the development phase? To

[12:19] me, that seems like that's closer to the

[12:21] you know um

[12:23] or when the buildings are up or almost

[12:27] up. You know what I'm saying? Like this

[12:28] is like pre-development.

[12:29] >> Yeah.

[12:30] » Yeah.

[12:30] >> I'm wondering why Why would that be a

[12:32] » I'm wondering why Why would that be a

[12:32] concern in pre-development versus what

[12:35] during the development phase? Or towards

[12:37] the end.

[12:37] >> To me, this is also similar, you know,

[12:39] » To me, this is also similar, you know,

[12:39] condominium documents are about the

[12:41] ownership of the property, not the

[12:44] layout of the property.

[12:45] >> Okay.

[12:45] » Okay.

[12:45] >> And uh our city attorney really

[12:50] » And uh our city attorney really

[12:50] I think in the past has not had like,

[12:52] you know, a single-family traditional

[12:55] development did not want the city

[12:57] approving the covenants that go with

[12:59] that cuz that's really the developer's

[13:01] document for guide, you know, uh it's

[13:03] more of a private document.

[13:05] >> Right.

[13:05] » Right.

[13:05] >> So, to in my mind, that would be in line

[13:09] » So, to in my mind, that would be in line

[13:09] >> According to Google

[13:11] » According to Google

[13:11] it they do not go together.

[13:13] >> Okay.

[13:14] » Okay.

[13:14] >> I mean, for what it's worth. It was a

[13:16] » I mean, for what it's worth. It was a

[13:16] quick Google search.

[13:17] >> [laughter]

[13:18] » [laughter]

[13:18] >> Sure. All right.

[13:19] » Sure. All right.

[13:19] Uh like I said, I'm just trying to make

[13:21] sure that we're

[13:22] >> No, he's

[13:22] » No, he's

[13:22] >> that we've we've got all this stuff

[13:24] » that we've we've got all this stuff

[13:24] aired out in public

[13:25] >> I can double-check if if if you want to

[13:27] » I can double-check if if if you want to

[13:27] forward it on

[13:29] for approval to council. I can double

[13:32] check with

[13:33] the city attorney in between now

[13:37] and the

[13:38] What is it? September 5th?

[13:39] >> Sure.

[13:41] » Sure.

[13:41] I'm satisfied with that.

[13:44] » We can address it that way, too.

[13:46] >> Okay.

[13:47] » Okay.

[13:47] >> So we we talked about the fourplex.

[13:53] That was that was

[13:54] presented to do us before.

[13:58] » And is is the

[13:59] >> This is the This is the first time this

[14:01] » This is the This is the first time this

[14:01] has been presented to the planning

[14:03] commission as a development project.

[14:08] There's been no development plans for

[14:11] the twin homes previously till tonight.

[14:15] >> Okay.

[14:15] » Okay.

[14:15] >> Mhm. But we saw something for the

[14:17] » Mhm. But we saw something for the

[14:17] apartment building.

[14:20] » There's been no development plans for

[14:22] the apartment building as of

[14:23] >> We've seen ideas.

[14:25] » We've seen ideas.

[14:25] and ideas.

[14:25] >> conceptual ideas that were included in

[14:27] » conceptual ideas that were included in

[14:27] the request for proposal.

[14:29] >> That's what I was just going to say

[14:30] » That's what I was just going to say

[14:30] that.

[14:30] >> That's not development plans at all.

[14:32] » That's not development plans at all.

[14:32] >> Okay. I guess I thought I would thought

[14:33] » Okay. I guess I thought I would thought

[14:34] I remember certified site map, but maybe

[14:37] I'm wrong. That's what this is, right? I

[14:39] mean

[14:39] >> All right, let me Let me

[14:41] » All right, let me Let me

[14:41] >> All right, yeah. Real estate

[14:43] » All right, yeah. Real estate

[14:43] >> Previous previous at the July meeting,

[14:47] » Previous previous at the July meeting,

[14:47] you recommended approval of the

[14:48] certified survey map which splits the

[14:51] parcel into three three parcels.

[14:54] >> Oh, yeah.

[14:55] » Oh, yeah.

[14:55] >> One for the apartment, the middle one

[14:57] » One for the apartment, the middle one

[14:57] for the twin homes, and the

[15:00] bottom one for parkland.

[15:02] >> Right.

[15:02] » Right.

[15:02] >> So that breaks it into two three lots.

[15:06] » So that breaks it into two three lots.

[15:06] What this is doing today is breaking it

[15:08] down into further

[15:12] air quotes lots for twin home

[15:14] development. So it's it's it's now going

[15:16] to the next level, but only for that

[15:19] middle lot.

[15:22] » Okay, thank you.

[15:24] Does this go to council?

[15:26] >> Yes.

[15:27] » Yes.

[15:27] >> Okay.

[15:28] » Okay.

[15:28] >> Just like just like a regular plat, like

[15:30] » Just like just like a regular plat, like

[15:30] Cardinal Heights, that goes to council.

[15:33] >> Um I move to approve the

[15:36] » Um I move to approve the

[15:36] um I move to

[15:39] recommend approving of the condo plat um

[15:43] to council

[15:45] with the following conditions, items in

[15:47] the review letter be addressed, and a

[15:49] sewer tap application for all dwellings

[15:51] on the parcel be submitted to Columbus

[15:53] Utilities, and all fees paid in full.

[15:57] >> I second.

[16:00] » I second.

[16:00] >> I have a motion and a second.

[16:01] » I have a motion and a second.

[16:01] Any further discussion?

[16:05] I have another question, Mike.

[16:06] >> Mike um

[16:07] » Mike um

[16:07] Oh.

[16:08] Online.

[16:08] >> Josh, yes.

[16:10] » Josh, yes.

[16:10] >> Yeah, Mike Mike I I I just want to state

[16:11] » Yeah, Mike Mike I I I just want to state

[16:11] something, you know, in regards to the

[16:13] sewer stuff, you know, it it would be

[16:15] nice if the uh the the company, Columbus

[16:18] Water and Light, would know exactly what

[16:19] they're doing. You know, they we were

[16:22] completely blindsided by a bill 13

[16:25] months later from when we started that

[16:28] project. And uh you know, it's that's

[16:31] not how you do business. I mean I mean I

[16:34] love Columbus. I grew up there.

[16:36] >> Josh,

[16:37] » Josh,

[16:37] Josh, we're talking about the twin homes

[16:39] here.

[16:41] >> Yeah, I know that. I know that, but I'm

[16:42] » Yeah, I know that. I know that, but I'm

[16:42] just explaining. Like like like

[16:44] hopefully they have their stuff figured

[16:46] out because I'm very patient. A lot of

[16:48] these developers are not patient.

[16:50] >> You're talking about a previous

[16:51] » You're talking about a previous

[16:51] property, which is not on the agenda, so

[16:53] can't be discussed right now. We are

[16:55] purely talking about what's on the

[16:57] agenda.

[16:57] >> Yeah. Yeah, Josh, I'd appreciate if you

[16:59] » Yeah. Yeah, Josh, I'd appreciate if you

[16:59] brought that up with with staff cuz

[17:02] what we're doing is we're simply

[17:04] recommending to council to follow a

[17:05] staff

[17:07] comment.

[17:07] >> Yeah, that's fine.

[17:11] And I did send you guys all the

[17:12] condominium documents. I have not signed

[17:14] those cuz my attorney has not told me to

[17:16] sign them yet, but I do have them. Mike

[17:18] has them. So, if you guys would like to

[17:20] see those, I'm fine with him sharing

[17:22] those with you.

[17:26] » All right. Staff can contact you.

[17:29] So.

[17:30] I did have one last question, Mike.

[17:32] And that is um

[17:35] the

[17:36] is the fact that there are multiple

[17:38] buildings on this parcel part of

[17:40] basically what we're approving as

[17:43] as a condo plat. So, this serves the

[17:45] function of what would otherwise be a

[17:48] conditional use.

[17:53] » It is a condo plat, not a conditional

[17:56] use.

[17:56] >> I understand.

[17:57] » I understand.

[17:57] >> Yeah. Yeah. I Those are two very

[17:59] » Yeah. Yeah. I Those are two very

[17:59] different things.

[18:00] Um I would This is really it it it's

[18:05] it's similar to a site plan, but not

[18:07] exact. Um it's similar to a site plan.

[18:10] >> Okay.

[18:11] » Okay.

[18:11] >> plan

[18:12] » plan

[18:12] >> The fact that we're approving this is

[18:15] » The fact that we're approving this is

[18:15] in and of itself approval of having

[18:17] multiple buildings on a parcel that

[18:19] would otherwise not be allowed to have

[18:21] multiple buildings.

[18:36] » You can do multiple buildings in

[18:37] different ways. This is one way to do

[18:39] it.

[18:40] >> Okay. There. It's That's

[18:41] » Okay. There. It's That's

[18:41] >> I think we would have figured it out if

[18:43] » I think we would have figured it out if

[18:43] if there was something.

[18:45] >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious.

[18:47] » Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious.

[18:47] >> It's kind of sterile.

[18:48] » It's kind of sterile.

[18:48] >> So.

[18:48] » So.

[18:48] >> Yeah. It it it's it's it's just one way

[18:51] » Yeah. It it it's it's it's just one way

[18:51] to doing it. I think if if if uh

[18:55] if the layout worked better and they

[18:56] wanted uh he wanted to have and we do

[18:58] have this in Columbus twin homes on

[19:00] their own individual lot.

[19:02] >> Right.

[19:03] » Right.

[19:03] >> Um we have that in Columbus. Um so, that

[19:06] » Um we have that in Columbus. Um so, that

[19:06] would be another way to do that. So,

[19:08] there's more This is just

[19:10] one way of doing it and it's not

[19:12] any

[19:14] it's not a bad way.

[19:16] >> No, it's not. I'm not saying it's good

[19:17] » No, it's not. I'm not saying it's good

[19:17] or bad.

[19:17] >> It's just one

[19:18] » It's just one

[19:18] >> You answered my question three sentences

[19:20] » You answered my question three sentences

[19:20] ago, so we're good. All right.

[19:22] All right, we have a motion a second.

[19:24] Any other discussion? Everybody's hoping

[19:26] that

[19:27] >> I say one more thing? Can I Mike, this

[19:29] » I say one more thing? Can I Mike, this

[19:29] is how you guys wanted this done. That

[19:30] That's why the the engineers and set it

[19:33] up this way. You know, I I would have

[19:35] rather had

[19:37] >> Josh, I'm not questioning or opposing

[19:39] » Josh, I'm not questioning or opposing

[19:39] this. I mean I'm just asking questions

[19:41] >> I'm just talking about

[19:42] » I'm just talking about

[19:42] >> Yeah, that's what we recommended for

[19:43] » Yeah, that's what we recommended for

[19:43] approval. I think you're good, Josh. So

[19:45] we can move

[19:46] >> to explain. I wanted them zero lot line

[19:48] » to explain. I wanted them zero lot line

[19:48] duplexes and you guys didn't want them

[19:49] that way. So this this was the way that

[19:52] that I was told that we should do this

[19:53] and so that's how we set it up.

[19:56] >> Yeah, I'm just I'm asking questions

[19:57] » Yeah, I'm just I'm asking questions

[19:57] about a proposal in front of me and I'm

[19:59] not opposing.

[20:01] >> I'm not sure you guys got stuck with me.

[20:03] » I'm not sure you guys got stuck with me.

[20:03] My My engineer was supposed to be there.

[20:04] He had a family emergency, so he had to

[20:07] drive to the Twin Cities. I don't

[20:08] typically always deal with this stuff.

[20:09] I'm more on the construction side of it

[20:11] once it's approved. So

[20:13] >> No problem. We'd like to move on with

[20:15] » No problem. We'd like to move on with

[20:15] our vote.

[20:16] >> Perfect.

[20:17] » Perfect.

[20:17] >> All those in favor signify by I.

[20:19] » All those in favor signify by I.

[20:19] >> I.

[20:20] » I.

[20:20] >> Opposed?

[20:23] » Opposed?

[20:23] Okay.

[20:24] Pass it on to council, please.

[20:30] All right, moving on to

[20:35] Where is my agenda?

[20:37] Moving on to number five.

[20:40] Consider and take action regarding a

[20:42] land division in the town of Elba in

[20:45] Dodge County

[20:46] under City of Columbus extraterritorial

[20:48] jurisdiction for the Phyllis Hammond

[20:50] estate. Dodge County activity number

[20:54] as printed.

[20:55] >> [snorts]

[20:56] » [snorts]

[20:56] >> All right.

[20:57] » All right.

[20:57] So this is outside the city of Columbus

[21:00] in our extraterritorial area.

[21:03] So state law state law

[21:06] requires the city

[21:08] to take action on lot splits within that

[21:12] 1 and 1/2 mile area of the city. Um

[21:15] this is a property

[21:19] east of city limits.

[21:21] Um

[21:23] there isn't a super good map, but it's

[21:26] uh kind of

[21:28] south of Rotary Park, south and east of

[21:32] Rotary Park.

[21:34] Um and the railroad tracks, there's a um

[21:37] properties in there. Um

[21:40] and so uh

[21:43] if you approve this, it it moves on. If

[21:45] you deny it, the split, my understanding

[21:48] is the split is denied. But if you

[21:51] approve it tonight and the

[21:54] town doesn't approve it, then it can

[21:56] also stop. So it doesn't get your

[21:58] approval does not guarantee approval

[22:01] throughout the process. So um

[22:04] uh these are large. There's a uh um

[22:08] this is large parcels. We don't have any

[22:11] policies

[22:13] uh in our comprehensive plan or in our

[22:15] ordinances that would that kind of

[22:17] contradict uh

[22:20] uh large splits and those kinds of

[22:22] things. So um I don't see any problems

[22:25] with the split.

[22:31] » East of the city?

[22:33] >> Uh think Rotary Park.

[22:37] » Uh think Rotary Park.

[22:37] Stay on that side of the river and kind

[22:39] of go down along the river to the

[22:40] railroad tracks.

[22:41] >> And

[22:42] » And

[22:42] the north?

[22:44] >> South of Rotary Park.

[22:46] » South of Rotary Park.

[22:46] >> South of the

[22:49] » Outside the city limits.

[22:56] » [snorts]

[23:06] » Any questions? Any discussion?

[23:12] I agree with you, Mike. This looks like

[23:14] it's

[23:15] getting carved off to include buildings

[23:18] on the property and

[23:20] it's almost a it's still a it's still a

[23:22] 33-acre piece.

[23:23] >> Rotary Park?

[23:25] » Rotary Park?

[23:25] City property?

[23:27] >> Yes.

[23:28] » Yes.

[23:28] >> And you're saying to the south?

[23:30] » And you're saying to the south?

[23:30] South and east. Southeast.

[23:33] Cuz the

[23:34] river kind of curves around, so it's

[23:36] >> But really really to get there, Mike,

[23:38] » But really really to get there, Mike,

[23:38] you'd go across the bridge on 60, go a

[23:41] couple streets up and hang a left before

[23:43] you got to

[23:44] the grainery.

[23:47] That's how you That's how you'd actually

[23:48] get there by car.

[23:52] » The grainery. Like a block past the dam.

[23:54] Is that

[23:54] where this is?

[23:55] >> Yeah, it'd be Yeah, it'd be on the

[23:58] » Yeah, it'd be Yeah, it'd be on the

[23:58] opposite side of the dam.

[23:59] >> Okay.

[24:00] » Okay.

[24:00] >> Yeah.

[24:00] » Yeah.

[24:00] >> That's here.

[24:01] » That's here.

[24:01] >> Okay.

[24:04] » [snorts]

[24:20] » Any other questions, Mike?

[24:22] >> No.

[24:23] » No.

[24:23] >> Okay.

[24:23] » Okay.

[24:23] >> Okay.

[24:25] » Okay.

[24:25] >> Um

[24:26] » Um

[24:26] I'll entertain a motion.

[24:29] >> I'd make a motion to approve the

[24:32] » I'd make a motion to approve the

[24:32] request.

[24:37] » I second.

[24:38] >> I have a motion and a second.

[24:43] All those in favor signify by I.

[24:46] >> I.

[24:46] » I.

[24:46] >> I.

[24:47] » I.

[24:47] >> Opposed?

[24:50] Great.

[24:54] And that's really a motion of

[24:55] non-objection to the

[24:57] county, to Dodge County, right?

[24:59] >> It's an

[25:00] » It's an

[25:00] It's an approval.

[25:01] >> Okay.

[25:02] » Okay.

[25:02] >> It's It's an approval.

[25:06] We have the same thing on the item

[25:08] number six, that it's a different

[25:09] property.

[25:11] >> Okay, so we'll move on to that item on

[25:13] » Okay, so we'll move on to that item on

[25:13] the agenda.

[25:17] Can you describe to us where this one

[25:18] is, Mike?

[25:24] » It is

[25:25] >> out there.

[25:29] » Yeah. Um

[25:36] Nina Buck Road.

[25:37] >> Yeah.

[25:40] » So, it's out of ways.

[25:45] So, you got parcel A, parcel B.

[25:48] Again, fairly large splits of land.

[26:03] Again, uh there's

[26:07] we don't have anything in our code or

[26:10] this stuff

[26:11] wouldn't seem to impede any kind of

[26:13] growth of the city or anything like

[26:15] that, so

[26:16] So, these are outside the city limit and

[26:19] we're just They just provided us a

[26:20] letter of intent notification.

[26:23] The city really doesn't have any say,

[26:24] but they don't

[26:25] >> City has say, yes.

[26:26] » City has say, yes.

[26:26] >> We have say.

[26:27] » We have say.

[26:27] >> Yep.

[26:27] » Yep.

[26:27] >> Anything within what, a mile and a half?

[26:29] » Anything within what, a mile and a half?

[26:29] >> Mile and a half is It's called the

[26:30] » Mile and a half is It's called the

[26:30] extraterritorial zone.

[26:32] >> Right.

[26:33] » Right.

[26:33] >> And we have the ability to approve or

[26:36] » And we have the ability to approve or

[26:36] deny this. If we approve it,

[26:39] um

[26:40] it still may not be approved pending the

[26:44] town's approval.

[26:46] So, this is There's multiple approvals

[26:48] needed for the split.

[26:50] Um and the city deals with it prior to

[26:53] the town.

[26:56] » So, they would be held accountable to

[26:57] wetlands and all the normal

[27:01] state

[27:03] >> Yeah,

[27:03] » Yeah,

[27:03] you know, town subdivision as well.

[27:05] >> Yeah.

[27:06] » Yeah.

[27:06] Yeah, this isn't even in our comp plan

[27:08] area.

[27:10] We didn't do our current comp plan does

[27:12] not do any kind of

[27:15] doesn't have any policies addressing

[27:17] growth areas outside the city.

[27:21] >> So, that's part of the reason it's kind

[27:22] » So, that's part of the reason it's kind

[27:22] of like what what would we hang our hat

[27:25] on for denial?

[27:27] We don't really have anything.

[27:31] » Any further questions or discussion?

[27:34] Okay.

[27:36] I'll entertain a motion.

[27:38] >> I'll move to approve subdivision

[27:39] » I'll move to approve subdivision

[27:39] activity number 2026-0356

[27:43] for David and Marie O'Crawley.

[27:46] >> I will second.

[27:47] » I will second.

[27:47] >> I have a motion and a second. Any

[27:48] » I have a motion and a second. Any

[27:48] further discussion?

[27:51] Hearing none, all those in favor signify

[27:52] by I.

[27:53] >> I.

[27:54] » I.

[27:54] >> I.

[27:54] » I.

[27:54] >> Opposed?

[27:57] » Opposed?

[27:57] Great.

[27:57] >> Please forward our approval to the

[27:58] » Please forward our approval to the

[27:58] county.

[28:01] » All right. Last item of business is this

[28:05] uh

[28:06] consider and take action regarding the

[28:08] housing survey in support of updating

[28:11] the city's comprehensive plan.

[28:15] » So, we put together the survey. We tried

[28:18] to keep it as succinct as possible.

[28:21] There's a couple things in there we're

[28:22] kind of like, well, how do we do this?

[28:25] It blends in a little bit in the land

[28:27] use a little bit, but we tried to keep

[28:29] it succinct. Um we do now have a

[28:32] subscription to SurveyMonkey,

[28:34] which allows us to

[28:38] do survey and analysis and all that kind

[28:40] of stuff uh

[28:42] uh in a

[28:44] in a efficient way. Um but we have uh a

[28:48] number of questions here.

[28:50] Try to break it out it identify who's

[28:52] taking the survey, address housing

[28:55] affordability,

[28:58] housing types,

[29:03] also city engagement in affordable

[29:05] housing,

[29:07] timing and growth rate cuz that's a big

[29:09] part of

[29:11] of kind of it's a little bit more land

[29:13] use but

[29:15] they do

[29:16] they blend so much together it's kind of

[29:18] hard to stay out of that

[29:21] but it does give us a

[29:22] some questions on

[29:24] kind of how to approach things.

[29:27] Talks about infill and outward expansion

[29:30] a little bit

[29:32] and then

[29:33] the big debate always in surveys is do

[29:36] you have an open-ended question? The

[29:38] negative on that is

[29:41] the comments are usually all over the

[29:42] map and there's no way to summarize

[29:45] those comments

[29:47] unlike the 12 questions.

[29:52] The the positive of having it it gives

[29:55] someone the opportunity to address, have

[29:57] a say, an open-ended say about something

[30:00] that maybe wasn't addressed in the

[30:02] survey.

[30:04] But what yet you know what how do we

[30:07] communicate that when we complete the

[30:09] survey?

[30:13] Staff could try to summarize it the best

[30:15] we could we can include a list of every

[30:17] single comment

[30:19] but it's not going to be

[30:21] easily necessarily depending on how many

[30:24] people respond doesn't mean it's going

[30:26] to be very digestible

[30:30] but that's in the draft.

[30:35] We will have hard copies available here

[30:37] at City Hall. It'll be online. We'll

[30:40] promote it through social media channels

[30:43] and uh uh

[30:47] we'll have the results for the September

[30:49] Plan Commission meeting.

[30:51] >> Um

[30:53] » Um

[30:53] have you So, you said you were going to

[30:55] have it online and are we going to send

[30:58] this out via mail at all or no? It's

[31:01] just going to be you're going to

[31:02] advertise it, people are going to have

[31:03] to go and

[31:04] >> do it

[31:06] » do it

[31:06] fairly similarly to the Park and Rec

[31:08] outdoor recreation

[31:11] >> which we had I think 350

[31:14] » which we had I think 350

[31:14] responses.

[31:15] >> Well, that's good.

[31:16] » Well, that's good.

[31:16] >> Which is I think I did the calculations

[31:19] » Which is I think I did the calculations

[31:19] on that. For Columbus, that's uh

[31:21] statistically appropriate sample.

[31:25] 350 responses.

[31:27] Somewhere Whatever the number was, it

[31:29] was in that ballpark.

[31:33] Most of the responses came in the first

[31:35] 10 days.

[31:37] Probably 90%

[31:38] >> Probably have kids, too, right?

[31:39] » Probably have kids, too, right?

[31:39] >> 90% of the responses came back in the

[31:41] » 90% of the responses came back in the

[31:41] first 10 days.

[31:42] >> And they people families with kids, I

[31:44] » And they people families with kids, I

[31:44] assume, is the majority.

[31:46] >> I can't remember the results.

[31:48] » I can't remember the results.

[31:48] >> Okay.

[31:48] » Okay.

[31:48] >> I'd have to refer to that.

[31:50] » I'd have to refer to that.

[31:50] >> I know cuz I thought about it and then I

[31:52] » I know cuz I thought about it and then I

[31:52] forgot about it. But I don't have I

[31:54] don't have kids in the system anymore

[31:55] anyways, but

[31:56] >> Parks are for all ages.

[31:58] » Parks are for all ages.

[31:58] >> No, I know. I I get it. I utilize it. I

[32:00] » No, I know. I I get it. I utilize it. I

[32:00] go to the parks and stuff. I wish I

[32:02] would have remembered.

[32:04] >> So, what?

[32:05] » So, what?

[32:05] >> All right.

[32:05] » All right.

[32:05] >> I'm

[32:06] » I'm

[32:06] >> Yep, good.

[32:06] » Yep, good.

[32:06] >> Just a comment on the wording of of one

[32:08] » Just a comment on the wording of of one

[32:08] of the questions. In section two,

[32:10] question four, approximately what

[32:11] percentage of your gross monthly

[32:12] household income is spent on housing

[32:14] costs and rent or mortgage plus

[32:16] utilities.

[32:17] Um I wonder if you might want to include

[32:19] property taxes in those parentheses,

[32:21] too. Property taxes are more or less

[32:24] built into rent uh and in my experience,

[32:27] cost far more than utilities.

[32:29] >> Well, if I was answering it, I would

[32:31] » Well, if I was answering it, I would

[32:31] include that.

[32:34] So, I don't know not.

[32:35] >> that question again?

[32:36] » that question again?

[32:36] >> It's the very

[32:37] » It's the very

[32:37] >> two, number four.

[32:38] » two, number four.

[32:38] >> Yeah, it's the very first question in

[32:40] » Yeah, it's the very first question in

[32:40] section two.

[32:41] Right? Cuz taxes are part of part of

[32:43] housing.

[32:44] >> It's it's a hard one. Uh

[32:47] » It's it's a hard one. Uh

[32:47] there are

[32:48] different thoughts on the definition of

[32:50] how you determine affordable housing.

[32:52] Some include utilities, some do not. I

[32:55] have found

[32:56] contradicting statements on how that is

[32:59] done.

[33:00] >> I don't think we're questioning the

[33:01] » I don't think we're questioning the

[33:01] utilities. We're talking about property

[33:03] tax.

[33:04] So

[33:06] Yeah, I would too.

[33:07] >> with you, Steve, cuz

[33:09] » with you, Steve, cuz

[33:09] rent is usually got property tax built

[33:11] in. But mortgage doesn't. So

[33:13] >> so it's a right.

[33:14] » so it's a right.

[33:14] >> It's a equivalent.

[33:18] » Right. And if people um if their house

[33:20] is paid off and they still have property

[33:23] taxes and or utilities, they still have

[33:26] housing costs.

[33:35] » Other questions or comments?

[33:39] » I had a question about section three,

[33:41] number seven.

[33:43] There's a

[33:44] definition there under the bullet point

[33:48] missing middle housing.

[33:51] Is that a

[33:52] >> Hey hey let me

[33:53] » Hey hey let me

[33:53] >> Oh, sure.

[33:54] » Oh, sure.

[33:54] >> Catching up.

[33:55] » Catching up.

[33:55] What is it again? What question?

[33:56] >> Uh number seven.

[33:57] » Uh number seven.

[33:57] >> Okay.

[33:58] » Okay.

[33:58] >> You have single family detached homes

[33:59] » You have single family detached homes

[33:59] and then something called missing middle

[34:01] housing. Is that

[34:04] editorializing that it's missing or is

[34:06] that actually part of the description of

[34:10] what those are?

[34:14] » I think it's up for debate if it's

[34:16] editorializing or a description.

[34:20] » Okay.

[34:21] >> I I think that's the

[34:22] » I I think that's the

[34:22] >> But a normal person I would I have no

[34:24] » But a normal person I would I have no

[34:24] clue what that means. What is a missing

[34:26] missing middle housing?

[34:27] >> Yeah, it is more of a a profession

[34:29] » Yeah, it is more of a a profession

[34:29] thing. It The middle is is addressing is

[34:33] meaning is that a lot of housing that's

[34:36] being built is either subsidized

[34:41] through grants based on income at the

[34:43] low end or the people who have a lot of

[34:46] money

[34:47] um where the developers make more money

[34:50] on their projects.

[34:52] And then the miss the middle type stuff

[34:54] like duplexes, twin homes, triplexes,

[34:57] fourplexes, those types of things

[34:59] kind of generally a lot of times don't

[35:01] get built because there's incentives at

[35:05] the opposite ends to build them.

[35:08] >> Can we remove the word missing?

[35:09] » Can we remove the word missing?

[35:09] >> That's what I'm

[35:10] » That's what I'm

[35:11] I

[35:11] >> We can.

[35:11] » We can.

[35:11] >> I don't want somebody to be It really

[35:12] » I don't want somebody to be It really

[35:12] confuses me.

[35:14] >> misled when they're trying to answer a

[35:16] » misled when they're trying to answer a

[35:16] question. What should we have? Oh, well,

[35:18] this is missing so we should have it,

[35:19] you know.

[35:20] >> Plus we have duplexes and twin homes

[35:22] » Plus we have duplexes and twin homes

[35:22] currently on the

[35:23] >> Mike following everybody around to

[35:24] » Mike following everybody around to

[35:24] explain it and

[35:25] >> [laughter]

[35:27] » [laughter]

[35:27] >> We have those of some of those available

[35:29] » We have those of some of those available

[35:29] in this community.

[35:31] Um

[35:33] But you do are saying townhomes and row

[35:35] houses

[35:37] are actually

[35:38] >> of

[35:39] » of

[35:39] of this

[35:40] is of this question is what housing

[35:43] types and land use mix do you want to

[35:45] see? That's the purpose of these

[35:47] questions.

[35:48] >> So your comment on the missing middle is

[35:50] » So your comment on the missing middle is

[35:50] appropriate.

[36:00] » Others?

[36:07] If not, I'll entertain a motion.

[36:09] >> Move to approve the housing survey.

[36:15] » Second.

[36:16] I have a motion and a second. Any other

[36:18] discussion?

[36:19] >> Is that with removing

[36:21] » Is that with removing

[36:21] the missing?

[36:24] >> Yeah, I can amend my motion to approve

[36:26] » Yeah, I can amend my motion to approve

[36:26] the housing survey with removing the

[36:28] word missing from missing middle

[36:30] housing.

[36:31] >> Do you want to consider Steve's comment

[36:33] » Do you want to consider Steve's comment

[36:33] about the

[36:36] tax part of the mortgage also?

[36:38] >> And include taxes in the mortgage

[36:41] » And include taxes in the mortgage

[36:41] clarification.

[36:45] » We have a motion.

[36:47] Do we have a second? Okay.

[36:49] Motion and second. All those in favor

[36:51] signify by I.

[36:52] >> I. I.

[36:53] » I. I.

[36:53] >> Opposed?

[36:56] Great.

[36:58] Passes.

[37:00] Last one, any future agenda items?

[37:04] » Um next meeting we'll have survey

[37:06] results

[37:08] draft a draft of the housing chapter.

[37:13] And draft

[37:16] uh housing goals

[37:19] objectives and policies. So, what what

[37:21] I'm we're going to try to do is

[37:23] have um

[37:25] a draft set of goals and objectives for

[37:27] you to review.

[37:30] Um and then also um

[37:33] um so

[37:35] that's going to be held it's going to be

[37:39] well we'll have a lot to talk about.

[37:40] We'll have a zoning rewrite as well.

[37:42] We're we're going to try to staff is

[37:44] going to try to write the best goals,

[37:46] objectives, and policies we can to get

[37:48] you as close as you can.

[37:50] Um

[37:52] um so

[37:53] you know, reviewing those in advance of

[37:55] the meeting will be helpful to kind of

[37:57] move them get the get you there quicker

[37:59] during the meeting.

[38:01] Um if you take a look at

[38:04] I included kind of a process

[38:06] in the on the previous agenda item.

[38:11] We will need comments. Uh we will need

[38:14] to get some fairly good responses from

[38:17] you on what we submit to you

[38:20] so that we can have a public hearing

[38:23] on October 8th

[38:26] and take it to the council on

[38:28] the 20th

[38:31] because we can't we can't take have the

[38:33] public hearing

[38:35] at the November plan commission cuz it's

[38:37] too too late.

[38:41] And I doubt you want to have a second

[38:44] October plan commission meeting.

[38:47] » [snorts]

[38:49] >> Not unless there's chips.

[38:52] » Not unless there's chips.

[38:52] And guacamole.

[38:56] » [laughter]

[38:57] >> Homemade.

[38:58] » Homemade.

[38:58] >> All right.

[38:59] » All right.

[38:59] >> So and then that will have Sonia

[39:01] » So and then that will have Sonia

[39:01] rewrite. One of the things I did just

[39:04] receive a draft chapter of all the

[39:06] performance standards.

[39:10] I will email that out to you in the next

[39:13] day or so

[39:14] so you have a head start on reviewing it

[39:16] cuz I know that's what you want to do in

[39:18] your free time.

[39:19] Um

[39:21] but it is

[39:22] a chunk of stuff. So

[39:24] but at the next meeting Sonia will have

[39:26] her summary PowerPoint as well that she

[39:29] she does such a great job at and um

[39:33] so we'll be on pace for adopting

[39:35] adopting this in December.

[39:38] >> Sweet.

[39:40] » Sweet.

[39:40] >> When is the public hearing for that?

[39:45] » Likely

[39:47] November, I believe.

[39:50] I don't think we want to go any later

[39:51] than that.

[39:53] That'll get us set up for approval in

[39:55] December. [snorts]

[40:04] » Any other future

[40:06] crystal ball type things?

[40:12] » At some point here we'll probably bring

[40:14] through the plan commission

[40:16] a revision of

[40:20] I think it's chapter 86, public

[40:22] rights-of-way and stuff like that.

[40:25] Um

[40:26] that section, it's not in the zoning

[40:28] code, it's in their municipal code,

[40:31] but we would probably bring that through

[40:33] here

[40:34] um for review and recommendation to

[40:36] council.

[40:38] It addresses stuff like

[40:41] if you think especially like stuff in

[40:43] downtown,

[40:45] can you have benches in the right-of-way

[40:47] and on the sidewalk and how do we do

[40:48] that?

[40:50] Um there's some really outdated code and

[40:52] language in there.

[40:54] So, I have a an initial draft on that

[40:56] and I'm going to revise it one more time

[40:58] and then get it to

[41:00] uh

[41:00] the public works and utilities

[41:02] department.

[41:04] Um so, we'll probably bringing that

[41:06] through at some point, probably not the

[41:08] September meeting cuz that's busy

[41:10] enough.

[41:13] That will not require public hearing

[41:15] because it's not part of the zoning

[41:16] code, but it functions

[41:20] in many ways like it.

[41:22] >> Okay.

[41:25] All right.

[41:27] >> I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

[41:28] » I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

[41:28] >> Move to adjourn.

[41:31] » Nobody wants to

[41:32] >> Second.

[41:33] » Second.

[41:33] >> Second.

[41:33] » Second.

[41:33] >> I'll do it. I never do [laughter] that.

[41:34] » I'll do it. I never do [laughter] that.

[41:34] >> Great. Have a motion and a second.

[41:37] » Great. Have a motion and a second.

[41:37] All those in favor signify by eye.

[41:38] >> Eye.

[41:39] » Eye.

[41:39] >> Eye.

[41:39] » Eye.

[41:39] >> Opposed?

[41:41] » Opposed?

[41:41] We're adjourned.

Columbus, WI Plan Commission meeting from 8-13-2026

Agenda

Transcript