[0:20] Now, 9.07 a.m. Members, in accordance with the sunshine law, if you're not in the council chamber, please identify by name. Who, if anyone is in the room, vehicle or workspace with you today. Miners do not need to be identified. Also, please see the last page of the agenda for information on meeting connectivity. And remember to silence all cell phones. Good morning, everyone. I look forward to chair chairing a productive meeting. I'm Gabe Johnson, your committee chair. And also joining us today are Vice Chair Shane Sinensee, Loha Council Member.

[0:53] I'm here at my home office, I'm here by myself, and there's no testifiers in Hauna chair.

[0:59] Thank you for that.

[1:00] Let's move on to Council Chair Alesslie, Aloha Councilmember.

[1:03] Good morning.

[1:06] Good morning, Chair Johnson, Aloha Coco, looking forward to your meeting, and there's no one here

[1:14] at my home office besides my little kitty.

[1:17] Thank you.

[1:18] Okay.

[1:19] Thanks for that info.

[1:20] And next we have in the chambers, Councilmember Tom Cook, a Loha Councilmember.

[1:23] A lot of good morning, and currently there's no testifiers, and the internet is working at the South My Office.

[1:31] Wow.

[1:32] Or two in all today.

[1:34] All right, now we've got move on to Councilmember Paulton, a Loha Councilmember.

[1:37] I love the Christmas vibe you got back there.

[1:42] A lot of Kakaya Kakako streaming live in direct from my kitchen table.

[1:47] There's nobody else in the house.

[1:49] The K9 is downstairs.

[1:51] Okay, and Council Member Yuki-Lay Sugimura is excused today, and of course, we have with us virtually committee member Noi-Lani-U-U-U-Hajins, Oloha Council Member.

[2:03] Good morning, Chair. Good morning, everyone. I am also at my private residence. I have one adult male with me, Mokoa-U-U-Hajins, and then I have my minor daughter as well, but I am here, and I'm excited for your meeting. Thank you.

[2:18] Okay, welcome, welcome in the good morning.

[2:20] Of course, our non-voting committee members,

[2:22] Councilmember Rollins, Fernandez is always welcome.

[2:26] And we are now from the administration.

[2:29] We have plenty of folks there as you can see.

[2:31] We've got the Department of Environmental Management

[2:32] and Deputy Director Michael Peterson,

[2:35] Environmental Protection and Sustainable Division Manager,

[2:38] Cecil Powell, along with William J.

[2:40] We have from the Department of Management,

[2:43] Office of Recovery, Executive Assistant, Jordan Hart,

[2:46] From the Department of OEV Resources, we have Director Caponeau-I Moli-Tau, from the Department of Water Supply, Director John Stuffelbeam, Office of the Mayor, Office of Economic Development, we have Chantel-Rolim, and from Corporation Council, we have Christy Wigglesworth, Deputy Corporation Council, and Adrian, Rife Snyder, Deputy Corporation Council. On our committee staff, we have Ellen McKinley, Legislative Analyst, Casey Apple, Takahama, Senior, Legislative Analyst,

[3:14] from Megan Moniz, Legislative Attorney, and

[3:17] Kraseldo Paranada, our committee secretary,

[3:20] Ms. Leidenine, and our assistant clerk.

[3:22] Today, on our agenda members, we have two items.

[3:25] Very important items are really excited to learn more about them.

[3:28] We have a depth one, parentheses one,

[3:30] reviving the Na'ulu Cloud Bridge,

[3:32] and a depth one, parentheses 12, aquifer mapping,

[3:36] and long-term monitoring of water resources on Maui.

[3:39] These items are informationally only,

[3:41] and no legislative action will be taken day.

[3:43] Okay, thank you members and administration for being here today, thank you for our presenters.

[3:48] Let's begin with public testimony on all items on the agenda.

[3:51] Although public testimony is also welcome after the presentations of each item as well.

[3:58] So staff, do we have any testifiers?

[4:07] Okay, just give me a moment, I'll read some guidelines here.

[4:11] Oral testimony via phone or video conference will be accepted in addition to in-person testimony.

[4:15] Individuals wishing to testify in person may sign up with a staff member at the entrance

[4:19] of the chamber.

[4:20] For those joining the meeting via Microsoft Teams, those wishing to testify can let staff

[4:25] know by using the Raise Your Hand function.

[4:27] If you wish to testify, once you've been added to the test fire log staff will lower your

[4:32] hand.

[4:33] Testifiers wanting to provide video or audio testimony should have joined the online meeting

[4:37] via the tiny URL link or by calling into the phone number noted on today's agenda.

[4:42] Written testimony is encouraged and can be submitted via the e-comment link at

[4:46] MauiCounty.us forward slash agendas.

[4:49] Oral testimony is limited to three minutes per item.

[4:52] If you're still testifying me on that time, you will hear a second time or go off after

[4:55] 30 seconds, and I'll kindly ask you to complete your testimony.

[4:59] We ask that you state your full name and organization, but if you prefer to testify anonymously,

[5:03] staff will identify you and refer to you as testifier.

[5:07] Please also indicate this agenda item or items that you're testifying on.

[5:10] Once you're done testifying, if you don't, or if you do not wish to testify, you can view

[5:16] the meeting on a Cocoa Channel 53, Facebook Live, or MauiCounty.us forward slash

[5:21] agendas. Thank you all for your cooperation.

[5:24] The chair will maintain decorum at all times.

[5:27] Any person who behaves in a manner that disrupts, disturbs or impedes the orderly conduct of any

[5:31] council meeting can, at the discretion of the presiding officer and a majority of present

[5:35] and council members be ejected or banned from the council meetings or participating remotely

[5:40] muted or dropped from the meeting. Examples of disruptive behavior include heckling, shouting,

[5:45] use of profanity, threatening or slander's remarks made to any member of the council staff

[5:49] or general public committee members. I'll now proceed with oral testimony. Staff have been

[5:55] monitoring individuals joining today's meeting by phone and by video and we will do our best

[5:59] to take each person in an orally fashion. So staff will you please call the first testifier?

[6:03] Yes, chair, the first testifier is the Royal House of Hawaii to be followed by Hina and Nubal.

[6:09] Okay, Royal House.

[6:12] Aloha.

[6:13] Aloha.

[6:14] Aloha.

[6:15] Aloha.

[6:17] Aloha.

[6:20] Aloha.

[6:21] Aloha.

[6:22] Aloha.

[6:29] Aloha.

[6:34] Aloha.

[6:34] So, there's six items, right? Am I correct?

[6:39] Oh, there's only two items.

[6:43] Oh, it's two items.

[6:45] Okay. Sorry, they're reading the agenda throughout the same time because it's like

[6:52] confusing little bit with the numbering, but the first one, the first one is for

[6:57] I'm

[7:02] looking at the agenda is like giving me like six like different links to provide testimony on

[7:09] So, oh

[7:19] did we lose you? Oh, no, you

[7:32] and approval for proposed

[7:35] Reconstruction plans. Oh, no, that's number two. Yeah. Oh, no number one

[7:39] That makes me want the cultural resource commissioner

[7:42] a different meeting.

[7:44] Does it say Maui County, Agriculture,

[7:50] British, the Policy Commission?

[7:53] Oh, yeah, that's a different meeting.

[7:55] Oh, no way.

[7:57] Different link, yeah.

[7:58] We got a little bit of a internet.

[8:01] I can go speak though.

[8:03] It's you, but go ahead.

[8:04] To you all, as a, yeah, a land,

[8:08] all of your LAN tenant holder and descendant and I saw this is about so

[8:18] you guys just said this

[8:19] is about the rejuvenation of the clouds or something right yeah then the ulu cloud bridge okay so

[8:25] I'm wondering if any of the LAN descendants were contacted because it's all all of your title and

[8:36] Royal Patented, and there's Hawaii Revised Statute 172-11. The lands are supposed to be returned

[8:45] to the descendants. If it was even sold or if it's the title is trying to be changed or whatever

[8:53] every maybe. And yeah,

[9:00] I know, because I know many descendants, many of the Royal

[9:07] Katins over there on that side in the Agua area. That's where a majority of the

[9:17] Kanaka people. Did

[9:28] we lose you again?

[9:34] How long you know what I mean? We haven't been

[9:36] contact it at all and yeah

[9:43] I'm just wondering okay the descendants were called

[9:47] anyway okay and yeah I'll speak later I'm just gonna do this test of money

[9:54] for now but I'm gonna do my testimony after again okay let me see if we have

[9:58] any clarifying questions I don't see any hands for clarifying questions so

[10:02] thank you for your testimony staff will you ask for the next testifier care the

[10:08] next testifier is Hina Nubal.

[10:21] Hina Nubal, if you're ready to testify, you can...

[10:25] Aloha.

[10:26] Oh, there we go.

[10:27] Aloha.

[10:31] Aloha Nli Kako, Oki Oki Oki Napu Mohala Nubal.

[10:36] I was born and raised here on Maui.

[10:39] I come from Waipoli on the slopes of Haliakala.

[10:44] And I spent most of my life on this mountain.

[10:47] and I just came today in strong support of this project.

[10:52] Thank you guys so much for putting this on the docket

[10:55] and hearing this and being willing to consider

[10:58] this kind of a project.

[10:59] It means a lot to me that we've come to this place today.

[11:05] There's been so much damage this time to the INA all the way

[11:08] from the very top of the mountain all the way out

[11:15] to go a lot of itself. So any work that we do, that restores that system, that is the

[11:22] Naulu Cloud is so Mekai and so necessary for the generations coming after us. We are

[11:31] living on a planet that where does a desertification is spreading rapidly in many places, and I think

[11:37] that we think we're immune from that here in Hawaii, but we're not. We can see it happening.

[11:42] It's happening on Molokai, it's happening on Koholave, it's happening in Kihei and Lahaina

[11:48] and fighting against that by doing restoration work is one of the smartest and most culturally

[11:57] aligned things that we can possibly do to look after our INA and the generations coming after us.

[12:05] I have been an intern twice at the Awahi Restoration Project.

[12:09] I have family from Kabul, and I have seen firsthand how if you exclude the weeds and you plant

[12:22] the native plants and you give them the conditions to grow, they will thrive and they will grow.

[12:29] And these kind of projects truly can be a success, it just requires us to get behind them and

[12:36] give them what they need. So although I came a sort of last minute today without knowing

[12:41] all the details of the project, I know that anything that helps the Nauulu Cloud to be restored,

[12:49] restores not only the Aina and the Vai, the Ua, but it restores parts of us as Kanaka,

[12:57] and it allows us to maintain that connection. A green belt stretching from Liwerdhaliakala all

[13:04] all the way out to Koholavi is something filled with native plants is something that only serves

[13:10] to strengthen all of our cultural connections. All of those plants are incredibly important

[13:17] for cultural uses as much as they are for being on the INA to draw the clouds and to help

[13:24] the rain to come again. I deeply believe that this is possible and I really appreciate the

[13:30] vision of the people behind it. And thank you so much for your support today.

[13:35] Okay. Thank you so much for your testimony. Hena, let's see if we have any clarifying

[13:40] questions. We do have one from Councilmember Paulton.

[13:45] Thank you, Terry. Beemis. I was wondering if you could clarify what you said about the

[13:52] desertification. This is not something that you think that diesel would solve.

[14:00] I think I don't know a lot about desalination of water, correct?

[14:08] I don't know where we are at with having that kind of technology available to us here in Hawaii.

[14:16] I know that either way we have to put aside the I know, we have to plant the plants

[14:24] And maybe we get those going with water that is desalinated or our one water or some kind

[14:32] of water that allows us to help that, probably not a lot of it is going to get watered because

[14:38] that's not how large scale restoration works, but I really don't think that we can desalinate

[14:46] our way out of increasing certification, that is not going to solve our problems, I don't

[14:53] believe.

[14:54] I think that we need to do large-scale restoration.

[14:56] And I think that, um...

[15:00] That's what's really going to draw the moisture and hold it and we have to physically reconstruct that green corridor and that bridge that is the Nauulu Cloud that is celebrated in song and story by our ancestors. It's a phenomena that they have observed for hundreds and hundreds of years and they know how it works. And so, yeah, we have to rebuild that. Thank you.

[15:29] Okay.

[15:29] Thank you.

[15:30] Let's see if any other clarifying questions for our testifier.

[15:33] Thank you so much.

[15:34] Ms. Nooball for your testimony.

[15:36] Appreciate it.

[15:37] Staff, will you call the next testifier, please?

[15:39] Yes, chair.

[15:40] The next testifier, and currently the last sign up, is the individual calling in with the

[15:44] last four digits 6659.

[15:47] I mean, you may need to press star 6 to unmute.

[15:50] Star 6 to unmute.

[15:57] Aloha, this is Robin Knox.

[15:59] Can you hear me?

[16:00] Loud and clear, Ms. Knox.

[16:01] Great.

[16:01] Oh, great.

[16:03] Thank you so much.

[16:05] Aloha, my committee chair and members.

[16:08] Mahalo for allowing these important presentations for consideration.

[16:12] I commend you for looking for ways to melama our water resources.

[16:16] It's especially heartening to see all the relevant departments there, including DEM today.

[16:22] With regard to the aquifer mapping, modeling, and monitoring, it is essential.

[16:27] Often you may hear people say they don't like studies, they want actions but actions can

[16:32] be ill advised if not grounded in reality like knowledge of rainfall, aquifer location

[16:38] and bounds, water levels and water quality.

[16:41] Some of the information you'll see presented today demonstrates the folly of making decisions

[16:46] about sustainable yield without this understanding.

[16:49] Already we are over pumping wells and causing salination of fresh water resources.

[16:54] I support expanding the scope of this study,

[16:57] Island-wide, South Maui in particular,

[17:00] already has a large number of wells and more planned

[17:04] for the YLAS-670 project and comma-only aquifer,

[17:09] which has a very limited, sustainable yield,

[17:12] and many aquifer-dependent ecosystems along the coastline.

[17:16] A lot of people may not be familiar with the concepts

[17:19] of monitoring, modeling, and adaptive management,

[17:22] But these modeling systems help us define and understand how the system functions, and

[17:28] it gives us a management tool that only gets better over time because every time we do

[17:33] the monitoring, it improves.

[17:36] Our current system of water resources management is reactive.

[17:41] We implement management measures only after negative impacts have occurred.

[17:46] Having the mapping modeling and monitoring system will allow decisions to be proactive by predicting

[17:52] with the impacts of what draws would be before making a decision.

[17:56] So I encourage this also to be expanded to our surface water systems as well.

[18:01] There's only one water and our surface water management affects groundwater and vice-versa.

[18:07] Lastly, water resource discussions often have a tendency to focus on human usage.

[18:13] We must also protect our ecosystems by maintaining adequate groundwater flows to wetlands, springs,

[18:18] and local ear.

[18:20] The groundwater protects aquafirps from salt intrusion at the coast, and the Punevai provides

[18:26] cooler water refuge for fisheries in the local EO, which is increasingly important with

[18:31] a higher climate, hotter climate.

[18:34] So I support the landscape scale, restore restoration, and reforestation.

[18:41] That is actually the only method that brings more freshwater into our hydrologic systems.

[18:47] I'll repeat that.

[18:48] That is the only method that actually brings more fresh water into our systems.

[18:54] To take care of all of our water needs, landscape, scale, nature-based solutions are best.

[19:01] We have to take care of not only the needs of humans, but also the needs of nature.

[19:06] Mahalo, Newe.

[19:07] Thank you, Ms. Knox, for your testimony.

[19:09] You'll see if we have any clarifying questions.

[19:11] We don't have any, so thank you once again for your testimony.

[19:14] Staff, will you call the next testifier, please?

[19:16] Can we see that the Royal House of Hawaii is raising their hand, but we're still in the

[19:20] first on that opening, so if they would like to testify on the second item, they can,

[19:27] and then I also see an individual who's a partial podium.

[19:30] Okay, let's see if Royal House was your first, if you don't mind JC Law.

[19:37] Royal House, if you don't mind just sticking to the other item instead of the first item,

[19:44] is that okay?

[19:44] can you speak on that? Three minutes.

[19:48] Oh, I was going to say where can you find the agendas?

[19:52] It's not possible because it's not. Okay, I can help you with that, but did you want to testify

[19:57] on anything? Otherwise, I'll just give you that information. It's MauiCounty.us forward slash agenda

[20:03] is where you'll find that at. Yeah, I'm on there, but it's not showing. I'm looking at the calendar for

[20:12] for today with all the meetings for today is not popping up.

[20:17] Okay, well you, I'm sorry, the internet has been funky,

[20:22] but that's where it is Maui County,

[20:24] that US Forest, that's Gendis looking at the depth committee

[20:26] of 12, 4, 2020, 5,

[20:29] and that's where you should be able to find it.

[20:32] Did you want to speak on that?

[20:33] But I'll sign off for it.

[20:34] Good and next one, though.

[20:35] Okay, okay.

[20:36] Thank you so much.

[20:37] We're gonna move on to JC Law then.

[21:06] That's all right.

[21:09] Good morning.

[21:11] I was kind of interested in the some.

[21:15] It's very exciting that you guys are here.

[21:17] I stay in Waikawa, Kula-Uka.

[21:21] And I'm right on the edge of this.

[21:22] I looked into the press packet there.

[21:26] And to the Royal House of Hawaii, I really appreciate you guys

[21:29] coming in here and justifying and grounding everybody.

[21:33] And I hope you stay tuned because I think even you

[21:38] will learn something from this.

[21:44] I've been here 12 years now.

[21:45] I've been looking for you guys, and like I said, I'm up in Kula, and I go to the community, a Kula community association meetings.

[21:55] I don't know if you guys are familiar with that, but I haven't had much traction with them.

[22:00] They put me on the recycling committee, but I haven't had much traction with that either.

[22:06] And I appreciate Mr. Cook being here because my representative is a close associate of my representative Yuki-Lei Sugimura, and she's, I hope she's watching now, she's probably doing something very important.

[22:22] Okay.

[22:29] And I looked at the packet outside and I really appreciate and I encourage her by stay tuned because the presentation is going to be really extraordinary.

[22:37] and I appreciate, I kind of know a little bit of the territory up there, Mr. Johnson,

[22:43] and I know you're Lee Mahana has a lot to do with what's going on here.

[22:49] And since I feel comfortable with you, and you could come here off if you want to,

[22:53] but I've been trying to get some community stuff going on up there.

[22:56] All right, well, let's stick with this very important strategy.

[22:59] You know what I know? You guys, I know it's the churches,

[23:01] and they're not helping much at all.

[23:02] Okay. Thanks for that. Any clarifying questions from our testifier? Seeing none, thank you so much.

[23:10] All right. Staff, we have one more test for you. I think it's James Lannford.

[23:18] Mr. Lannford,

[23:19] you're going to testify today? Okay.

[23:23] Hello, huh? Hello. Thank you so much. What a fascinating

[23:26] meeting you guys are doing, Chair, and everyone, and Council Peeps. So there is a way to produce water

[23:37] without having to do a huge desalination on the smaller scale for about the cost of a water meter connection that'll produce up 30 gallons a day in our 60% humidity average coming in around 0.002 gallon costs.

[23:57] So I've posted that on the Facebook in today's meeting and the link for the Royal House of Hawaii as well.

[24:06] So that can help your math and those grants are easier to achieve with the USDA and the CDVG, et cetera, on those scales because you're not going up against.

[24:22] Well, you know how the process works with the smaller multiples with matching funds seems to unlock

[24:30] water in a way that can honor the existing needs for the Hawaiians and everything that comes after that.

[24:42] So that information will, it will give you cards so that you can see the apples and apples comparison of how the military would generate water in the desert in a 1% to 2% environment.

[25:01] Well, we're blessed to have 62 and it would also help building a closet.

[25:09] It's the same, it's technology that I believe our elite would use through like, I'm sorry, the concept of E.O.C.

[25:19] or lightning to protect the air and the resources from destruction.

[25:25] So that would be a cultural tie-in for you folks too.

[25:28] Okay, I hope that math works out for you.

[25:33] Okay, and I'm available, yes sir.

[25:36] Thank you Mr. Lankford for your testimony.

[25:37] Members, any clarifying questions for Mr. Lankford?

[25:40] Seeing none, thank you once again for your testimony.

[25:42] Staff, do we have any other testifiers?

[25:46] Staff has not received any further requests for testimony this time.

[25:49] Anyone who would like to testify, please raise your hand, or click on the,

[25:53] by clicking the raise your hand button, or pressing star five via phone.

[25:56] I'd love you to do a last call.

[25:58] Okay. Last call for testimony. Three, two, one, chair seeing no individuals wishing to testify.

[26:05] Okay, members, seeing there's no more individuals wishing to testify. I'll proceed with the agenda,

[26:09] and that is, adept one parentheses, one reviving, the Na'ulu Cloud Bridge.

[26:15] Members, the rain follows the forest. As we know, from historical deforestation and the resulting

[26:21] historic droughts in water shortages. No trees equals no rain. The Naulu Cloud Ridge, which we

[26:27] will hear about today, is one example. This is an important cloud bridge, one stretch, like a

[26:32] constant banner connecting the mountains of Kaholavi and Haliakala, after the damage to Kaholavi by

[26:39] military bombings and the clearing of forests from Haliakala slopes, the Naulu Cloud Ridge has disappeared.

[26:45] And as the cloud cover left, so do the rains.

[26:49] But as the rain, coa, or shrines linked from Ula Palcua to Kaua Lave by ceremony show,

[26:56] there is hope for healing if we look at this holistically and recognize the indigenous knowledge of our natural systems and our human place within them.

[27:05] If we consciously steer the land and restore our trees and forests,

[27:08] there is hope that the cloud cover will grow as well and bring life-giving rains that are so needed.

[27:13] It is a generational, historical undertaking.

[27:18] To help us learn more, I have invited Andrea Buckman, Executive Director of Uhe-Y-O-Holly

[27:24] Aka-Lah, an organization working with landowners on Leeward-Holly Aka-Lah to assess landscapes

[27:29] and implement site-specific reforestation plans.

[27:33] Ms. Buckman and her team are boots on the ground and help provide public and private resources

[27:37] to reverse deforestation.

[27:38] Our presentation team includes CJ Elizares, a cultural practitioner with Protect Kaholavi

[27:47] Ojana, Dr. Jonathan Price, a professor of geography at the University of Hawaii at Hilo,

[27:52] and for the Waikoloa Dryland Forest Initiative, Paul Higashino, Restoration Manager for the

[27:59] Restoration Program of the Kaholavi Island Reserve Commission, and Akua Pol, owner of Pol

[28:05] brothers incorporated a long time resident of Kahikun, Nui, Homestead, and a board member

[28:10] of Ujivai'o, Haliakala, and Ilama Farm, President of Kahohana'o, Kahikun, Nui.

[28:19] I've also invited Lance DeSilver from the Department of Land and Natural Resources to

[28:23] provide comments for as our state deal and our Maui Branch Forest Program Manager.

[28:28] Members, if there's no objections, I'd like to designate his resource persons on their

[28:31] Council rule 18A, given their expertise and

[28:34] reforestation and efforts to revive the Na'olu Cloud

[28:36] bridge to folks that I just mentioned.

[28:38] Thank you so much.

[28:40] All right, Mr. Buckman, thank you for being here.

[28:44] Please introduce your team and commence with

[28:45] your presentation.

[28:46] The floor is yours.

[28:50] Mahalo.

[28:51] Aloha Mikako.

[28:53] My name is Andrea Buckman.

[28:54] I'm the executive director for Uhuvai.

[28:56] I'm really grateful for the opportunity to be here.

[29:00] I'm really grateful for the initiative that the council

[29:03] So I'm really proud of our county leadership at this point and I'm excited to share with you some of the work we're doing on the forest in the forest and hopefully we can help provide a solution that Maui really needs.

[29:21] I have some really key partners here and this initiative is huge. It's going to take so many more than us.

[29:29] But, um, with the time we had today, I've brought some-

[29:34] Ms. Buckman, can you take the mic and bring it a little bit closer and share your voice with us?

[29:39] Thank you.

[29:39] Sure.

[29:40] Is that better?

[29:41] Yeah.

[29:42] Okay.

[29:44] So, um, I have C.J. Alizarra's.

[29:47] I've known C.J. for many years, um, starting, I think I met him at the rain ceremony at

[29:54] I put my boy many years ago, I've known him from voyage.

[30:00] Meeting, and most recently doing restoration and collaboration with the team at McKenna. My board member

[30:07] here at Kula Poe is a leader in our community, small business owner, and he's been kind of

[30:14] by my side as a resident of Creaking, you're trying to, you know, resettle a remote homestead.

[30:22] And he's seen a lot of the struggles we've had as a conservation entity and a long time partner,

[30:27] and I'm grateful for his leadership on the board.

[30:29] I have Ilama Farm, he's now the president of Kauhana, Okahikinui, so they're a strong community

[30:36] partner.

[30:37] They're the board that represents the residents that live out in Okahikinui and I think you'll

[30:44] see later that's a key project site that I believe will be central to this initiative.

[30:50] And then, of course, Paul Higashino, he is one of my Kumu and people I've learned from

[30:57] in over 15, 20 years on Maui doing this restoration work, so I'm really honored to be at the

[31:05] table with him and have his expertise and be able to really collaborate with him in a meaningful

[31:11] way.

[31:13] So we each have a portion in this, and I look forward to sharing with you.

[31:19] Seedoo is going to start us off with setting the context.

[31:32] I'm looking at these lights. Thank you guys.

[31:35] Yasuo, we can just look at the picture on the left,

[31:40] or local kayoko, everybody.

[31:43] If you look on the picture on the left, and you can see those taken from an airplane

[31:47] on one of our flights back and it shows go a lot of in the foreground and Maui in the background.

[31:55] I really love this picture which made me really look out the window that day

[32:00] because it really shows all of the pieces that create this no-look cloud

[32:07] that also recognizes the other cloud banks and cloud bridges that are coming off of Maui.

[32:17] for this picture, you can see the Alainui ha ha channel on the right, the side where the

[32:23] words are, and the wind comes off of that channel, everybody knows the Naulu wind that

[32:28] comes off of that channel. But in the back there, it comes off and comes up Kaupo and pushes

[32:34] the evaporation off of the surface of the ocean onto the land, the heat from the land in Kaupo,

[32:41] and Khaikinui drives it up the steep cliffs of Pali Kuh,

[32:47] and it starts to congregate the water,

[32:50] it starts to congregate as a cloud.

[32:53] And then it comes over to the Honwa Ula,

[32:56] where it meets at Pumakua at about 6,000 feet elevation.

[33:00] And that's the right side of the cloud.

[33:04] The left side of this picture,

[33:06] you can see the Kuhlono coming from P-Holo.

[33:09] So, you can see how it comes from UQQ and other cloud bridge that comes across the isthmus

[33:15] of Maui.

[33:16] You can see a shorter cloud if you can recognize where Kihei, Kula Kaya is in there,

[33:24] and that's Kula Nihau Koi and other cloud bridge, anyway.

[33:30] Those clouds and those water vapors being pushed by the Moai winds through the central valley

[33:35] comes up against the Kuala Lone across Kula and meets again at Puma Kua. We have ceremonies

[33:43] at Puma Hue on Kuala Lave, and in many other areas in Hula to recognize Kone, which is simply

[33:51] all of these winds, clouds, rains, the plants, and most importantly for this is heat.

[33:59] And at Pumahoy we call the cloud down so and recognize all of its powers, make it

[34:07] heavier, offer it whole kupu, and call it down so it doesn't fly over Kohola, where

[34:13] Pumahoy is at 2,222 feet, real easy to remember, Kohola is about 1,600 feet in elevation.

[34:21] So if the cloud stays high, which it has been doing because there's nothing to grab onto and well, there is no, I think we'll get into that later.

[34:32] It'll miss the whole of it as a whole.

[34:34] No, no, Ulu.

[34:35] What we're talking about today is just a small part.

[34:38] It is Kaleno, Ulu.

[34:40] It's a larger name of this cloud bridge, which goes past the whole of it.

[34:45] It goes over to La Nai, goes over to Molokai, and then returns back to Maui.

[34:50] But we're talking about this restoration effort here in Maui, because that is the beginnings

[34:56] of this cloud, taking care of what we know is Kapo Gap, Kapo, Klaikinui, Honwa Ula, as

[35:04] a whole, the channels that surround it and then even into the central value of Maui, all

[35:10] of those things contribute to this.

[35:13] The cultural end is not very different, it's not different from the scientific end, these

[35:19] These are all the same things, we're talking about all the same things.

[35:23] The sanctification of this cloud, the sacredness of this cloud comes because we recognize this as a life.

[35:30] If we keep on saying water is life, then we need to recognize these things as such.

[35:36] And we're going to show some of the work that we're doing to that honors this cloud, next slide.

[35:44] All

[35:47] right, now these pictures are from Kuala Lave and Waiaka is a reflection.

[35:54] It's a reflection of this cloud and who we are as people.

[35:59] We have all of these ahu or Kaua standing up in different spaces.

[36:06] The pictures are from Kuala Lave now, one from Akio Ava and the other one at Bu

[36:15] and that's

[36:15] another Kaua.

[36:16] So that's the receiving Kua Kaipua Kana on Kola, from the previous slide we had on the

[36:24] Nō Ulu Kua at Ulu Pala Kua.

[36:26] And that we encourage the exchange, and I'm running out, I went over the time that I

[36:33] told Andrea I would take.

[36:35] But what we just wanted to highlight is that everybody at this table here and many other

[36:40] people in the community are these Kua, we are these all who that are doing our work.

[36:46] And we're all trying to do what we can in our spaces.

[36:51] Hi, for instance, work in the lower dry land forests of Honolulu,

[36:56] whereas I don't know what Andrea guys do up in the mountain above the clouds.

[37:01] But we're trying to just like this bridge figure out connectivity

[37:05] between our different organizations or different works

[37:09] and how we can make a continuous bridge not only in the sky with the clouds and the water but through our networking and collaboration as partners on land as people and as conservationists, I guess, if you want to be that.

[37:30] That's all I get.

[37:38] I love learning, it's never going to stop and I was taking notes as you speak, you know.

[37:44] So I just am so grateful for the opportunity to collaborate with all these people and hopefully

[37:50] with many more.

[37:51] Thank you so much.

[37:54] So I first started back in 2004, I was working as a researcher at a college, a city tropical

[38:04] College in Conservation, working for Pacific Well Foundation.

[38:07] I was volunteering up in the mountain thank goodness I met Dr.

[38:11] Art Maderas and started volunteering and then works doing well

[38:17] research for a couple of years and then was able to get to get

[38:21] hired full-time I think in 2007.

[38:25] So this is all I know.

[38:27] This is what I know and what I do and I still know nothing.

[38:30] I'm just enamored with this work, it's always a challenge, and it's always inspiring,

[38:37] and I'm dedicated to it.

[38:40] But at the beginning, some of these things that really inspired me, what he's of all

[38:45] he's upon, a learning about what sacred places are, what that truly means.

[38:50] One becomes many of the concept of adaptive radiation, how unique and special so many species

[38:55] these here are, they're only found here on the entire planet and the ways that they colonized

[39:03] and arrived here and then became these unique and diverse assemblages is fascinating.

[39:09] Where rigor overlaps with relevance, that's kind of where we look at that role between science

[39:16] and understanding and community.

[39:18] How much do we study versus how much do we do?

[39:23] Learning that Lerid Halakala is the epicenter of extinction in the Pacific, we have lost

[39:28] more than any other region in the Hawaiian Islands in terms of biodiversity.

[39:35] So that's pretty sobering and humbling and hopefully inspiring.

[39:40] Uncle Renee Silva, well, but do we try something?

[39:43] We already know what happens when we try nothing.

[39:46] I will always be inspired by that.

[39:50] When you think you know you have no idea, the more we learn, the more we hone our skills,

[39:55] things are changing so fast.

[39:57] We have to stay present with the lands and keep, um, stay humble so we can continue.

[40:03] Um,

[40:06] Creaky Newy, Awahi Kamakani, this is just an image of basically what Awahi started

[40:13] as.

[40:14] Our design it as a square so you could see it, started as 10 acres and 23.

[40:18] You can really see that you can convert degraded pasture land and really decimated native forest back to a native dominated ecosystem.

[40:30] You can do it. It takes a lot of work, a lot of volunteers, a lot of community, a lot of diligence, starting small is important, but it's possible.

[40:38] This set the stage for many larger scale restoration projects on Maui, and also has been inspiring

[40:45] for projects across the Pai'aina and across the world.

[40:48] It's a globally acknowledged site, and I was fortunate enough to be able to learn from.

[40:56] So right now, on the Yardhali Akala, about 5% of our native forests is all that's left.

[41:06] We know that if we don't have water, we don't have flowers, we don't have happiness, we

[41:11] don't have health, we don't have abundance.

[41:14] So we're looking at 5%.

[41:20] Some of the threats and challenges that we face are erosion with that loss of forest cover.

[41:26] The sediment is cheating off into the near shore waters and disrupting reefs, disrupting

[41:32] economic systems disrupting roadways,

[41:36] introduce unmanaged animals like access deer, pigs on the picture on the left you can see a couple of pigs got into one of our fences and just did a huge amount of destruction.

[41:49] We turned that into a positive and started planting into that area because they dug up the soil for us.

[41:55] But ultimately, you're constantly looking at threats.

[41:58] Those animals are too much for our native ecosystems.

[42:04] They didn't, the plants didn't evolve to defend against these types of threats

[42:08] and this type of pressure.

[42:11] So unmanage animals is a huge problem.

[42:15] Fire, drought, invasive grasses, you're probably very familiar with it.

[42:18] It's a cycle, right?

[42:19] So the more fire that we have, the more invasive species come in,

[42:23] especially fire and drought-adapted grasses. Most of those were introduced from Africa to be

[42:29] fodder for cattle. So that was because they thrive in full sun and dry areas. So they happen to

[42:35] be fire-adapted too, and then the more fires we have, the further those things are spreading

[42:39] up into the native forest. And then you get a picture on the right, you get a storm right after

[42:46] a fire, and you see, you know, that's probably tons of sediment. If you can see the tiny truck

[42:51] in the top left, it's tons of sediment flowing right into the ocean in Cahikinui.

[42:56] So, you know, we can have meetings, we bring people together.

[43:01] This is an example of that, I think, after the fire in 2016, and it keeps happening over

[43:05] and over and over again.

[43:07] We're not doing enough fast enough, so, et cetera.

[43:14] Storms, winds, suppression of seed being pathogens, we have rapidoheides, we've seen it decimate

[43:20] over 80% of Hawaii islands.

[43:22] Oh, he a forest.

[43:23] It has been detected on Maui a couple times.

[43:25] It's something we have to stay vigilant for.

[43:28] The storm is the picture on the right.

[43:29] To me, it's heartbreaking.

[43:31] A Kumu Koa tree just twisted and broken down by the wind.

[43:37] The more our forests are lost, the more the lack of understory is there.

[43:42] The more winds come in, those winds are bringing the pathogens like rapido here to us.

[43:50] So the less stability there is in the forest, it's just more and more exposed and less resilient.

[44:00] But there are some good things.

[44:02] So that forest is left, that's what we started being tasked with protecting.

[44:07] So there's still a lot of things and we need to hold on to what we can.

[44:12] So we started building fences from a Wahi, the 10 acres, 20 acres, 50 acres, to Kiki,

[44:22] Nui, this is a 4,000 acre project site.

[44:26] We have to fly in, fly in these materials.

[44:29] It's hours of time, it's very dangerous.

[44:33] We get to see some beautiful places, but building the fences is very expensive, very hard, then

[44:38] they have to be maintained.

[44:39] But that's what has to come first.

[44:40] you have to exclude the animals and create a draw line in the sand, you know, where you're

[44:46] going to start protecting something and hold space for that. We have to build work sites,

[44:52] camp sites, to make it safe as comfortable as we can. That takes a lot of work. We have four-

[45:01] We develop restoration techniques. You know, we're planting any erosion scars trying to figure out what's going to survive. We're planting in some areas. We have deeper soils. Deeper soils also means more weeds. So every site is different. As much as I learned at Hawaii, it does not apply to anywhere else. Everything is very site specific. I mean, I use every, everything I learned there. But every site has its own threats, its own amounts of remnant forests, its own weeds.

[45:29] reads, so it's like there's no playbook.

[45:34] Over time, why it was 2000, in 2004, 10 acres by 2019, we had over 12,700 acres fenced,

[45:43] and this isn't just us, of course, this is partners across, including the National Park,

[45:48] the state of Hawaii, and private landowners doing their own work.

[45:54] The partnership landscape was set at 3,500 feet and above, because that's the headwaters

[45:59] of the watersheds, that's where these landowners dedicated space to hold for future water

[46:06] and cultural economic resources.

[46:12] We're also part of a bigger system. On Maui, we have free

[46:15] watershed partnerships. Also, there's Pukakui watershed. There's South Maui watershed

[46:21] partnership group. There are a lot more and it's growing. And even across the state now, over 2.2

[46:31] dedication to watershed restoration through the watershed partnerships program.

[46:35] So it's a really innovative and collaborative effort that is a voluntary alliance between

[46:40] all these different types of landowners. It enables people to work across TMKs and address

[46:45] issues like fire and weeds and things that don't stop at your friend's sign or your boundary.

[46:50] It really allows us to look at things on an ecological level.

[46:56] So, what is Ujivai?

[46:59] Like CJ mentioned, the slide on the left is something I was playing with after I did

[47:02] a workshop with Papakumakavalu, and just trying to overlay the cultural understanding of

[47:09] the water cycle with a scientific framework, and it's more than a line, and the Hawaiian

[47:17] perspectives are even more in depth and more comprehensive and intricate and intimate.

[47:23] It was really fascinating.

[47:26] It took me a couple years to figure out the name for the nonprofit.

[47:30] The dark descending mist.

[47:32] It's the mist that comes in pretty much every day.

[47:36] You folks get to look at Halia Kala from over here.

[47:38] It's really nice to get to see it from a different angle.

[47:41] You notice that cloud almost every day.

[47:45] That's the descending mist.

[47:46] There's a beautiful song by Nathan Aveau that compares this to the hug of a loved one.

[47:51] this, this miss that envelops, and it, it's there, it's consistent, it's nurturing.

[47:58] OVVI is also our team.

[48:01] We had to exit our former situation under University of Hawaii, having physical sponsors

[48:07] over all these different years, working under government agencies, working independently

[48:12] became to be what seemed to me like the best solution, to have more freedom to work with

[48:20] funds that you can't get by working under fiscal sponsorships, so it has a lot of challenges

[48:25] and I've learned a lot more than I even want to about it, but I'm really grateful that we're here

[48:31] now and we have a lot still to learn, but we've also our people, our board, our volunteers,

[48:38] all the partners that make it work. We can run through some of this stuff quicker, but we've been

[48:42] able to secure more money, bigger grants, purchase vehicles in a timely manner, hold leases,

[48:48] hold rights of entry that enable us to access funding to help incentivize work on a lot of

[48:55] the private lands. Now looking at this map, these are kind of all the resources in the areas

[49:01] that we work in. So it's very spread out, it's a lot of space, it's a huge task and we're honored

[49:11] to be a part of it.

[49:14] So I'm just going to go through each of these sites quickly as they relate

[49:21] to a seeder said in Ulu Cloud, it comes together over the tip of where Poo Uma Hoi is, and so

[49:31] this is exactly where this landscape sits.

[49:36] So starting at Poo Uma Hoi, this is on the Poo Uma Hoi land, 236 acres.

[49:40] This is some of the last and best Willie-Willie forest left on Maui.

[49:45] populations of endangered species, there are archaeological sites in there, and I think

[49:52] it's central to kind of, as Tina mentioned, making sure that the belt of restoration

[49:57] not only stays at that former watershed level of 3,500 feet and up, but that we really consider

[50:03] and work towards connecting areas that we have access to and that are protected down all

[50:09] the way to the coastline across to Koholabe.

[50:10] Okay.

[50:11] Kohnulu Ranch is another partner.

[50:13] They've done a ton of work to remove water and fence-off areas.

[50:18] You can see a lot of you're familiar with the catastrophic flooding that happens sometimes

[50:23] and the erosion and sediment that comes down slope.

[50:28] So they're tasked with an immense amount of water, which is an invasive vacatia, sadly it's

[50:36] a relative of COA.

[50:38] So, um, we look at replacing that in case you replace it, you know, getting rid of one and putting in another, but that's going to be a huge amount of work.

[50:46] And with a single species dominating in area, there's not a lot of understory, so all that rainwater just sheets off, pulls the soil with it, doesn't recharge aquifers and it is detrimental.

[50:59] While Huley, this is a pretty new project, private landowner, we're excited to work with.

[51:05] We've got a lot of planting.

[51:06] We're going to start here.

[51:07] Wulu Polychlor Ranch, they're a founder of the partnership as well.

[51:11] They've been a leader from the very beginning, establishing a what he's allowing art and all

[51:16] the different partners to come and do a trial plot there.

[51:19] But they want to do more, they really want to do more.

[51:22] And actually I found this picture this morning, this was in 2014, I was actually flying

[51:26] in the helicopter to work and took that picture. So I needed one. And it was on this very day

[51:31] in 2014. So I was grateful for that. And it was a good reminder of the things that we still want

[51:38] to do. There's a lot of projects that still need to be completed or started. DT Fleming

[51:45] Arboretum at Pooh-Mohoi. Uncle David's here today. He's just a precious resource and fearless leader.

[51:52] Um, managing this critically important area, it's a refuge for many unique, unique,

[51:59] endemic, native species, and he allows so much education and engagement.

[52:04] Um, it's really a beautiful place that I'm just beginning to, to work with again and understand.

[52:10] And so I'm really grateful for that. We had a group of KS students come up, a group from the K

[52:15] Alani. It's just a really, it's nice to have an accessible location, um, with such special

[52:21] ecological treasures that we can share.

[52:24] Canal Natural Area Reserve, we work with the state here.

[52:27] Mostly controlling Baconia right now.

[52:29] It's one of the worst weeds on that slope.

[52:31] So we've killed Baconia across over 119 acres so far.

[52:36] And that natural area reserve, he cannot,

[52:38] it's an area that we have a right of entry to,

[52:40] but we don't work down there yet.

[52:42] But I think it's something that,

[52:44] should this initiative really be taken on,

[52:47] we'd like to do more work there and support the state's efforts

[52:49] and leadership in that area.

[52:53] It's again, just visually, you can see

[52:55] that it's central to this whole initiative.

[52:59] Digital Tokyo, you can hear you're

[53:00] going to hear about that a little bit more,

[53:02] but this is the heart of what's

[53:05] left of Leeward-Halliakala.

[53:07] This is where the best remaining intact forest is.

[53:10] It's on Hawaiian homelands.

[53:11] They have an entire moku.

[53:14] That's within Department of Hawaiian Homelands ownership.

[53:16] So it's a huge opportunity.

[53:19] 4,500 acres of fence.

[53:21] We're working in smaller units right now.

[53:24] You'll hear more about that later.

[53:28] Nakhul-Nashir Air Reserve is next over.

[53:31] That's an area that has been central to developing

[53:35] restoration techniques.

[53:37] We built this small one-acre fence area, the square here,

[53:42] to develop different planting spacing for Khoan-Alii.

[53:45] I think we did that in like 2007, and then after that, the NAR was built.

[53:51] And so you can see just behind that, the forest starting to fill in, now it's even filled

[53:57] in.

[53:57] More you can really tell the difference between inside and outside the fences.

[54:03] It's inspiring.

[54:04] The Canary Forest Reserve is next to the east.

[54:07] This is in that area.

[54:08] It's even more degraded, and you can clearly see how much actual just natural regeneration

[54:13] and comes in. There's a lot of planting that goes on here, too, and we have to keep adding

[54:20] biodiversity in places that are so eroded like this. But it really does make a difference,

[54:24] even within five years. This type of re-vegetation can be accomplished.

[54:32] New Malca, Andy Graham is also a board member. He's one of the strongest leaders in conservation

[54:38] on Maui. I believe he took on building a huge fence and probably the most rugged

[54:43] difficult terrain I've ever seen and heightened and worked in. He's really

[54:49] inspiring and supportive and he's also given us a nursery. A greenhouse allowed

[54:55] us to develop a seed farm here. Despite all the challenges he maintains

[55:00] positivity and belief that it's important that we do this work and everybody plays a

[55:05] role. We're really involved in outreach. That's something I'm proud of with

[55:11] We really stay tight with our community and we've been able to do more and more with the amazing team that I have.

[55:18] Some of them are in the audience right now.

[55:21] I'm really grateful to work with each and every one of them and it's been fun to see the things that we do now.

[55:26] I mean a golf tournament. I'm terrible at golf.

[55:29] I never thought that'd be something we participated in, but it's been really fun to be a part of that.

[55:35] We've done some dinners with the Kenna Art Projects.

[55:40] We have AMEOU Services come up.

[55:42] This top picture was a group of college students

[55:45] from Altairoa that came to learn from us.

[55:48] So we're just really grateful to have the freedom

[55:50] to engage with our community.

[55:53] Education's essential for us.

[55:55] I just had a baby.

[55:56] She flew in my belly until six months pregnant

[55:59] when I could barely zip up my flight suit.

[56:02] So she's going to be another warrior for the mountain.

[56:04] But my family are all educators and public servants and this is very strongly

[56:13] important to me and it's really important to our team too and

[56:17] we're really proud to work with with our students. I think that's the most important thing.

[56:21] One of the most important things we can do. We've also been able to work with some private businesses

[56:26] is Kia Hawai'i. They developed some of the best top notch technology to assess ungulate

[56:33] populations using heat sensing cameras. They can really detect each, you know, each

[56:40] number of individual types of species. And they were able to get that meat able to

[56:46] be fit for public consumption. There, I think the only company still in Maui that's able

[56:52] able to do that to take wild me and have it a provide

[56:56] Department of Health and made available to the community.

[56:59] So they're turning in invasive species into a resource.

[57:02] And even more so after the Lahina fires, they started the

[57:06] HoloI program that we're blessed to be able to support.

[57:10] And we provide, I think by the end of 2024, it was over

[57:14] 16,000 pounds of deer.

[57:17] That's all from harvested, mostly from Lywood,

[57:20] and removing a threat from our ranchers and our agricultural producers and our forest and turning that into free food for the community.

[57:28] In this book, man, we have three more speakers, so are you closely wrapping up?

[57:33] Yes.

[57:34] Thank you.

[57:34] Details matter.

[57:36] We've got over 80,000 plants.

[57:38] We're going to plant.

[57:39] And this is our slide about some of our costs.

[57:44] This work is expensive.

[57:47] It's remote helicopter time, seedlings, so we're looking at one camping trip to go camp

[57:55] in the mountain is $30,000 with a crew of six helicopter time and seedlings.

[58:00] So prices keep going up and I just want to be straightforward about, you know, as much

[58:07] as a nonprofit can do to cut corners and be economically responsible, it's just very expensive

[58:15] work if you want it done right and the long-term maintenance and everything that's also involved,

[58:20] so hopefully we can talk more about that. But I'm going to pass on to Akua. He is on our board

[58:26] and he has just a few other things to share.

[58:33] Aloha Kakaakioka, everyone. My name is Akua Po.

[58:36] As Andrew mentioned, I am a board member of UUVI and a very long-term resident of Kauikinui.

[58:44] I've been out there since I was a little kid and have watched the progression of the

[58:49] reforestation efforts.

[58:50] But before I go into this, I just want to give a quick emphasis as to how important it

[58:58] is that we do this.

[59:00] Some of the photos that you saw show the barren grassland with a small fenced enclosure

[59:05] next to it that's thick and lush with native plant life.

[59:08] That will you buy that Andrea mentioned, that cloud that collects on the mountain.

[59:14] It doesn't necessarily rain in the open areas, but when you stand underneath these trees,

[59:21] the old coas that are still there and the new ones that are planted on

[59:29] pouring water,

[59:30] where outside of the tree in the open grassland area, it's bone dry.

[59:34] So, all of these different areas that Andrew pointed out are a small contribution to the greater picture of reviving this cloud, right?

[59:45] The more trees we have, the more water falls, the better for the land.

[59:50] It's as simple as that, but my portion of this is really to emphasize as a small business owner and

[59:58] someone that lives in that-

[1:00:00] We need elevation where the clouds come. To make this happen, we need immediate resources to work. For us to produce a viable amount of native plants to propagate and put in the mountain, we need water at the base yard. We need electricity. We need a large functioning green and shade house. And all of these things require stable funding. And long-term leases to know that we can continue this work.

[1:00:29] work to make it viable.

[1:00:33] Every small thing that we do will contribute to the bigger goal, you know, like I said, this

[1:00:38] is a multi-generational goal to restore the not-ulu cloud.

[1:00:43] But I truly believe that by taking it one small step at a time, you know, through all of

[1:00:50] these different groups, all of our collaborated effort, we can achieve it.

[1:00:54] So we appreciate anyone's support.

[1:00:57] We appreciate the council having us here today, and I just want to say it can be done.

[1:01:02] You can literally see the water falling in the areas where we plant the trees.

[1:01:09] That's my portion.

[1:01:10] You guys follow, everybody.

[1:01:17] Aloha, Mike.

[1:01:18] Aloha, Mekako.

[1:01:19] I'm a Lama Farm President of Kaohana, Okaikinui.

[1:01:23] I'm here today in support of Ujivai and their reforestation efforts.

[1:01:29] I'm also here to highlight a little bit about our community to give you perspective of residents that live in the Nauulu restoration area

[1:01:43] and to give you perspective on our mindset as independent home status.

[1:01:52] We are descendants of Hawaiian homeland pioneers dedicated to protecting and restoring our moku.

[1:01:59] I always have to pay tribute to the founders of Kaikinui, the ones that pushed to open up the island for us.

[1:02:09] Many generations of us to benefit from, so always mahalo to the Kaikinui pioneers.

[1:02:15] give

[1:02:20] you perspective, we have a very independent mindset because we're so remote.

[1:02:26] We have completed three county grants, we received a fourth, and I wanted to give

[1:02:33] Amahalo to Eukilei to give more of her, always being very supportive of our community.

[1:02:40] To give you an example of what we do, we have such a strong volunteer base with 25,000

[1:02:49] dollars we're able to enclose this community center next and here's a small

[1:02:57] picture of volunteers the $25,000 was 100% just for materials and then all the

[1:03:06] labor is free and this is pretty much how we approach all our projects.

[1:03:13] I'm

[1:03:13] gonna highlight you know what we're going after as a independent water source

[1:03:20] And this is a fall drip project that's been been in years in the making, but right now

[1:03:25] it's at our doorstep.

[1:03:26] We have all the money to facilitate construction and implementation.

[1:03:35] We bought 90% of the materials.

[1:03:38] This structure here is a 24 by 24 receptacle where water tanks are in this structure and this

[1:03:46] will receive the fall drip once it's installed.

[1:03:49] and this was through a DHHL grant and a county grant.

[1:03:54] So this phase, phase one is completed.

[1:03:57] We're currently working on phase two.

[1:04:01] We recently received, we're part of a Maui Hikina cohort,

[1:04:07] Holani Hanung, and we received $150,000 from them.

[1:04:12] So we're earmarked and geared up to do construction.

[1:04:17] And we're just waiting for a few administrative things from the HHL.

[1:04:23] Here's a schematic of an overland, it's kind of hard to see, but on the bottom left is the fog-drip catchment area.

[1:04:32] And there's a thousand foot elevation between the structure, the water tank structure, and the catchment area.

[1:04:39] and order to have an overland pipeline of a few thousand feet of pipe that'll go towards the water tank structure.

[1:04:49] Data shows we have a weather station there and on an optimum day we can collect 2,000 gallons of water per day.

[1:05:00] We're also working on a DLNR fire mitigation corridor in collaboration with them.

[1:05:07] The proposal is to build a fire corridor from our main gate out towards Kabul, a 300-foot

[1:05:14] white buffer to, and then we're going to put grazing animals in the corridor to address

[1:05:20] fire mitigation.

[1:05:25] This all leads us to supporting an UHIVI Reforestation Project, and that's we're looking at

[1:05:33] archaikinui moku and the area on the top left in purple is 4,500 acres. So we have a tremendous

[1:05:42] opportunity to restore a huge portion of our mountain and we're approaching this through a

[1:05:50] western lens and a cultural lens as we view our moku in a way like as a konohiki wood and it's

[1:05:59] our responsibility to restore a moku and restore a watershed, and this all will affect us directly

[1:06:06] by having us have a sustainable, pure water source.

[1:06:14] Also, like in a recent fire in August

[1:06:17] of this past year, that area circled in red highlights the density. This is a cultural sight map

[1:06:26] of different cultural archaeological studies

[1:06:30] that's been done in Kaikinui.

[1:06:32] So the area in red,

[1:06:33] you can see how dense the cultural sites are in that area.

[1:06:41] This next slide is a little hard to see,

[1:06:44] but this is like a photogammatory area of view

[1:06:47] of Kaikinui in where the fire was.

[1:06:51] The areas in blue are bulldozed paths.

[1:06:54] And if you blow up the photo,

[1:06:56] So you would be able to see all the historic structures in this area and near misses and

[1:07:04] unfortunately sites that were destroyed.

[1:07:07] So as a community, we're taking a stance to protect our community through buffer zones

[1:07:13] and fire breaks, but also not allowing any future bulldozers to come into this area because we

[1:07:23] need to protect it.

[1:07:25] So lastly, just break up the ice a little bit.

[1:07:30] This guy might look a little familiar, but as you know, episode one for T-4-4 was filled

[1:07:38] in.

[1:07:38] Can you follow him?

[1:07:40] Wow.

[1:07:40] That's fascinating.

[1:07:41] Well, okay.

[1:07:43] That was great.

[1:07:44] Is there any more?

[1:07:47] Okay.

[1:07:52] We have about five more minutes, so if we can move this along?

[1:07:56] So

[1:08:00] I'm doing a things look at the slides really well really fast again

[1:08:07] I'm Paul Higashino

[1:08:08] Kola of Allen Reserve Commission. I've been working out there since first time 1978

[1:08:14] worked for a contractor for the military and the amount of change that's seen on Kola

[1:08:19] has been a tremendous. Everyone contributes the destruction of the island to the military.

[1:08:25] The island was gone before that.

[1:08:28] The cattle, the goats, the sheep.

[1:08:33] You know, again, sheep, the cattle, the goats introduced 1793.

[1:08:38] The last one is to move on 1993, so 200 years.

[1:08:42] And if we can get to my slides, I think what I want to focus and emphasize on is that,

[1:08:49] you know, what happened to Cole Lave is happening to all the other islands.

[1:08:52] and it will. I look at Kauikinui. I look at, you know, from the deer on Maui from

[1:08:59] nine in 1959. Poole Kali. Now we're about 150,000. And when I first

[1:09:07] undercoal Lava in 1978, the high water mark after heavy rains on the beaches

[1:09:12] was goat billets. And, you know, I'm sure that would be happening soon in many of

[1:09:18] our beaches for the tourists. Or, you know, were we like to, you know, go to and have, you know,

[1:09:25] take our families and, um, you know, um, yeah, I can't over stress the importance of the animals

[1:09:34] on our islands. Again, once we lose our watersheds, we lose everything. Um, as far as coal lobby

[1:09:43] was a bombing range for 50 years, but it was military type of ordinance has been dropped on it.

[1:09:48] So, some of the activities we do out there are very limited.

[1:09:53] You know, we do support the cultural practices, the particular La Viejoana and other groups

[1:09:58] that come out.

[1:09:59] We support the opening and closing of Makahiki and as CJ talked about early, the Ipua

[1:10:06] Kane, the rain ceremonies that we've been conducting on island since 1997.

[1:10:11] We have three rain coals out there,

[1:10:14] Ipua Kane, Lihau Ula, and Lepua.

[1:10:18] So our ceremonies are typically done,

[1:10:20] are done in every October.

[1:10:24] A lot of the, all of the plants that we use on Kola,

[1:10:27] they are native-based or native plants

[1:10:30] or Polynesian-based canoe plants.

[1:10:34] One of the biggest challenges for us is the hard pan

[1:10:38] of the argument of 20, 8,000 acres plus about 13,000 is just like asphalt and with this potential

[1:10:49] funding that we may be getting to reestablish the Oulu Cloud Bridge, most of our area would be

[1:10:56] in areas where we cannot dig the holes at all. So it's actually pretty easy planting without digging.

[1:11:05] Again, these areas, the level of ordinance clearance was just surface, so there's still

[1:11:11] a lot of potential ordinance underground, so that's some of our limitation.

[1:11:18] Just go through the slides really fast.

[1:11:20] York so bombing range,

[1:11:23] good next one, Andrea.

[1:11:27] I think staff is working on that.

[1:11:28] Okay, okay.

[1:11:29] So, Kolawe, receipt commission under this DLNR keep going, 2600 acres,

[1:11:41] the cultural importance

[1:11:43] of the island, artifacts, the ads quarry, we support a lot of cultural activities, the

[1:11:49] Hokulea, the Polynesian Voice Society, Military Use of the Island,

[1:11:56] I think what helped

[1:11:57] us, you know, we come up with different plans, a use plan for the island.

[1:12:02] What areas are we going to focus on for clearance, what areas are we going to use?

[1:12:07] Okay, next.

[1:12:11] As a level of clearance, yellow is surface cleared, red on cleared, green on the only areas

[1:12:17] that we can, you know, dig in, okay,

[1:12:23] risk management plan, you know, how to minimize risk

[1:12:26] from the island because besides the bombs on the island next is getting people there that's how

[1:12:35] we get people to the island. Landing craft on our landing craft we take the volunteers out to

[1:12:42] colavi and staff and with that next we have a base camp we provide all our own supplier own energy

[1:12:52] be out there, photovoltaics, produce our own water.

[1:12:56] We are able to run, keep volunteer safe

[1:12:59] and house out there.

[1:13:02] The different plans that we do have on the island,

[1:13:05] the ocean plan, restoration, cultural plan,

[1:13:10] cultural plan, again supporting

[1:13:13] our native Hawaiian practices,

[1:13:17] Makahiki, the Equal Connirane Ceremonies.

[1:13:21] Ocean program monitoring and protecting our ocean resources.

[1:13:25] And some of the erosion that we have to deal with, the mass amounts of runoff after heavy rains,

[1:13:35] windy erosion,

[1:13:38] and that's a lot of the area that the potential funding we're looking

[1:13:43] for would be trying to bring back or plant those type of areas.

[1:13:48] Yes,

[1:13:51] we have a facilities, we have a water catchment.

[1:13:55] Right now, we are working with the county

[1:13:57] on developing a water and development plan for the island.

[1:14:02] You know, native plants, you know,

[1:14:04] there's a lot more plants that we do use besides that handful.

[1:14:08] Okay,

[1:14:10] and again, just creating the cloud bridge, you know,

[1:14:15] the halea cloth and the distance.

[1:14:20] And just, you know, some of the results of our planting,

[1:14:23] where this area we could not dig at all, but fairly successful.

[1:14:30] Again, using the resources that we have out there, what are the Polynesians use?

[1:14:34] What are people from centuries ago done to establish plants in difficult areas, a pile of rocks?

[1:14:43] And again, just some of the other areas that we worked in,

[1:14:45] we threw out rocks, threw out seed, and occasional watering, walking away.

[1:14:50] Okay.

[1:14:52] In some of the monitoring we do, the measure results, sorry, the erosion, water infiltration,

[1:14:58] rates into...

[1:15:10] Okay.

[1:15:14] Okay. Biggest thing is a fire on the island right now, the 2020 fires, but burned island about 10,000 acres.

[1:15:25] Again, we're working with Dopha. They're helping us put in a fire apron. So to protect our infrastructure.

[1:15:31] structure on the island, rocky friends around our key infrastructure.

[1:15:36] So far, about 25,000 volunteers over the last 30 years roughly, about half a million plants.

[1:15:44] We're going to hit a few bombs, none have gone off, fortunately, yet.

[1:15:50] Okay, in the future.

[1:15:54] Thank you, Mahalo.

[1:15:55] Thank you so much, Mr. Higashino.

[1:15:59] Well, is it that's the end of the presenters for now, yeah, Ms.

[1:16:04] I had one more presenter that couldn't be here.

[1:16:07] I have just a couple of slides from Dr. John Price about some of the science-based direction

[1:16:10] of the restoration.

[1:16:12] Do I have a few minutes?

[1:16:14] Okay.

[1:16:14] We'll try to make it a little quicker so we can get through our agenda.

[1:16:26] Basically, Dr. John Price works for UH Hilo.

[1:16:29] So he's been a long time colleague and collaborator.

[1:16:32] He will be available as a resource to the council and

[1:16:36] is going to be a partner for us and all this restoration work for years to come.

[1:16:42] Thank you.

[1:16:48] Okay.

[1:16:48] Perfect.

[1:16:49] So these slides are some of the things he's prepared.

[1:16:52] He looks at climate change, restoration on Hawaii Island.

[1:16:56] He is like I said, a professor at UH Hilo.

[1:16:59] So this looks at rainfall right now.

[1:17:01] And if you see the area we're looking at, it's all in the orange for the most part.

[1:17:06] So this is extremely dry, these are millimeters of water.

[1:17:10] So extremely, extremely dry, very difficult to restore even in, you know, even when you

[1:17:17] do have access to water, it's very difficult.

[1:17:20] This is the cloud cover though.

[1:17:22] So what we were trying to, what we would like to continue developing in partnership with

[1:17:26] him is to really look at the cloud cover. And if you look at this in that same area, it's

[1:17:33] very high level precipitation. So, we have a lot of access to water, like through fog

[1:17:40] drip interception, which is how COA evolved, which is how most of our leeward rainforest

[1:17:45] or ecosystems get their rain and their water. So, you know, we were just going to continue

[1:17:51] to look at these maps and try to hone our restoration in order to best utilize the cloud cover and help

[1:17:58] focus areas of restoration so it will benefit the cloud system the most.

[1:18:04] Thank you. Let's see if Mr. De Silva is on is on the call from DLNR. Mr. De Silva, are you here?

[1:18:14] Sure. Sure. We haven't seen him. Okay. Well, you know, of course,

[1:18:18] they're always welcome to join us. But right now I just want to before we move forward,

[1:18:22] I want to talk about, you know, my office initiated this committee meeting, of course, and

[1:18:27] reached out to Andrea to find out how we can recreate in the Oulu Cloud Bridge, and are

[1:18:32] very appreciative of the team that she's pulled together.

[1:18:34] I look forward to working with her.

[1:18:37] And I think this is where we need to be investing, and I'm planning to plant a seed for next

[1:18:43] year's budget.

[1:18:44] So members, in case you're wondering, look forward to this being, you know, a part of our

[1:18:48] budget discussions.

[1:18:51] So I just wanted to thank you guys for your excellent presentations and we're going to move on to the administration.

[1:18:59] We have a lot of folks here from the administration.

[1:19:02] So we're just going to start with Deputy Director Peterson.

[1:19:07] Any comments on the slide on the Cloud Bridge or anything on this topic?

[1:19:14] Thank you.

[1:19:17] Thank you, Chair.

[1:19:18] Thank you.

[1:19:21] Miss Buckman, some amazing work.

[1:19:24] it's a daunting task when you look at some of these maps and amazing work has

[1:19:32] been done but so much more to do so congratulations to what has been done

[1:19:40] and your team has done some excellent work there definitely something that

[1:19:47] that resonated with me, Mr. Alizaris said is,

[1:19:53] talking about bridges, not only the cloud bridge,

[1:19:57] but bridging people and organizations,

[1:20:00] that was something that really hit home for me.

[1:20:04] And talking about the magnitude of this project,

[1:20:09] not one person or not one organization,

[1:20:12] not even just a county can get something like this done.

[1:20:16] And so, you know, looking forward,

[1:20:19] DEM is looking forward to supporting

[1:20:21] and doing what we can to support your organization

[1:20:26] and many of the organizations here.

[1:20:34] I'll turn it over to Cecil and William,

[1:20:36] if you have anything else you want to hear.

[1:20:38] Cecil, William, from Department of Environmental Management

[1:20:41] and Sustainability Division.

[1:20:43] You guys have any opening remarks?

[1:20:47] Thank you, Deputy, thank you, Chair.

[1:20:49] Yes, we are very excited to partner with, and we have partnered with some folks already

[1:20:56] to re-establish this cloud rate, is interesting how so many different organizations and grantees

[1:21:02] are placed small parts in the big picture of what is needed to make this big venture happen.

[1:21:11] And we're here for the long haul, EPS has been growing.

[1:21:14] our team is 13 strong now, and we are getting well-oiled machine ready for the next year's grant season, and a lot of the sustainability grants, wetland restoration grants, and green grants coincide with our climate action resiliency plan that is going to be updated.

[1:21:36] here soon to include these types of projects with water resources and natural protection of this project and other ones like it.

[1:21:50] Okay, thanks.

[1:21:51] Thank you so much.

[1:22:01] Hello everybody.

[1:22:03] I don't have too much to add to what Cecil already provided.

[1:22:07] It's been a pleasure to meet a lot of you today so far.

[1:22:10] I will say that in, you know, and thank you, Andrea, for providing your presentation.

[1:22:17] As many of you might not know, the Climate Action Resiliency Plan was adopted, put into

[1:22:23] county code back in 2022.

[1:22:26] It looks like we're updating it about every five years.

[1:22:29] And part of what was placed in the ordinance through the county was including native Hawaiian

[1:22:35] knowledge and practices, which is something that needs to be integrated.

[1:22:37] and at the forefront, as well as rooting things in the best available science.

[1:22:44] So I appreciate your presentation where it combines those two together.

[1:22:48] And so, I mean, hopefully the people that are updating this climate act resiliency plan

[1:22:53] in the coming year will talk to people like you, watershed partnerships, and so forth.

[1:22:58] I'm very curious to read the science behind what you've developed to date.

[1:23:04] That's all I really have to add though.

[1:23:05] Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jay. Appreciate that.

[1:23:09] Let's move on to Mr. Hart, any comments from the Department of Management or Office of Recovery and just to let everybody know in advance I'm going to call on Director Molly Toward for you and then direct your stuff will be so we can just get them.

[1:23:21] Thank you very much to all the presenters, there was a lot of great information.

[1:23:27] The office of recovery does have two projects in the Lahaina long-term recovery plan that relate to this.

[1:23:33] They're not directly in the Honua-Ula area, but they're abutting in the Kula-Moku and also in Lahaina.

[1:23:42] There's a re-vegetating and reforestation of Lahaina and Kula and there's a Y in watershed planning within the Lahaina and Kula-Mokus.

[1:23:49] And so we're preparing to pursue those, and I look forward to collaborating with all of you as we have to do those.

[1:23:57] And I also add that, you know, my office and myself, I like collaborating with the departments and working with you, with everybody here at this table so we can all, you know, not work in silos and one team, one dream, right?

[1:24:10] Okay, let's move on to Director Moli-Tao, any comments from the Department of Resources? Good morning, Director.

[1:24:28] Thank you very much for the presentation. I will say this. This presentation and this conversation

[1:24:36] reminds me of a conversation, my time with Carl O'Leary Reserve Commission alongside with

[1:24:43] point of the amount of years that this conversation has been happening and the amount of work that

[1:24:51] has entailed you if you know Paul, he is one that is an amazing land store and a person that

[1:25:04] is fundamental in the Reforestation and Planting of INA, and so when we talk about this particular

[1:25:13] conversation of bringing back no Cloud Bank and that particular manifestation from one

[1:25:21] cultural perspective, I would highly suggest from this OEV lens that we look at OLE and we look at

[1:25:32] traditional chance and oratory of history as a roadmap that can continue to help bring this

[1:25:42] cloud bank down with the needed spaces of forests that needs to not only be brought down from the

[1:25:51] moana but also brought up from a cave and so when we're thinking about bringing this particular

[1:25:58] I'll bridge back in in a long length conversation. I think both go hand in hand. So looking at one world without both from a mountain perspective down as well as a multi perspective up is is something that I would like to include in the conversation.

[1:26:16] Well said, Director Mollietao.

[1:26:18] Really appreciate your comments.

[1:26:20] Okay, let's move on to Director Stoffelbeen.

[1:26:22] He just turned his camera on.

[1:26:24] Any comments from the Department of Water Spide Director?

[1:26:26] Good to see you.

[1:26:29] Good morning. Good to see you.

[1:26:30] Yes, this is very, very interesting.

[1:26:33] I did like to comment about taking advantage of the wisdom

[1:26:36] from both the cultural perspective and the Western perspective

[1:26:38] in blending those together and making the best solutions.

[1:26:41] That was great.

[1:26:42] This is a really good compliment.

[1:26:43] as you know we do about 4% of our budget goes to watershed restoration and watershed protection

[1:26:49] and you know we can't do it in this area because there's no access to any of our current water supplies.

[1:26:54] So this is a great comp connected

[1:27:02] to a one moment director I got a little internet issue

[1:27:07] seems okay I think can everybody hear us everybody else online you guys can okay I think we're good

[1:27:13] to go please continue beg your pardon director. I was almost done I just I just say that you know

[1:27:19] Again, I think it's a great compliment to the work that we're doing in the watersheds

[1:27:22] that are connected to our water system.

[1:27:24] So we're supporting and looking forward to seeing some positive results.

[1:27:27] You know, I do think that the watershed protection work and restoration work that we're doing

[1:27:32] is probably the most important thing that we are doing.

[1:27:34] It's just longer term than the other stuff.

[1:27:36] So thank you.

[1:27:37] That's right.

[1:27:38] Well said, Director.

[1:27:39] Exactly.

[1:27:40] Okay.

[1:27:41] So we also have from OED, Chantal Rowland if she's on the call.

[1:27:47] We will curious about her comments from OED and how we can develop our Kamaiana economy to include green jobs that will support the reviving of the Oulu Cloud Bridge.

[1:27:57] Mr. Rowland, are you on the call?

[1:28:02] Sure, we don't see her right now.

[1:28:04] Okay, all right, well, all right, let's move on.

[1:28:08] I think that's everybody.

[1:28:09] I didn't miss any departments or anybody.

[1:28:11] I don't see that I missed anyone.

[1:28:13] We're going to move on to public testimony just for

[1:28:17] adept one, parentheses one.

[1:28:20] At this time, if there's anyone wishing to testify on this item,

[1:28:24] please use your raise your hand function and you will be called upon the testifying staff.

[1:28:27] Is there anyone wishing to testify?

[1:28:29] Chair, the only individual currently signed to testify is Richard Kikivi.

[1:28:33] Mr. Kikivi, are you ready to testify?

[1:28:51] Aloha, my name is Richard Kikivi.

[1:28:54] I am a Lineal Descendant of the backside.

[1:28:56] I'm just here as a community member.

[1:28:58] I say Lennial Descendants of the backside,

[1:29:00] because my grandpa, my great grandpa is from Kabul,

[1:29:03] my great grandma is from a volcano.

[1:29:04] So, all of it will be cool.

[1:29:06] I was raised on the ranches,

[1:29:08] Kanaulu, all of it will be cool.

[1:29:10] But I'm just here to speak for myself.

[1:29:12] And I didn't graduate college,

[1:29:14] so this is an experience in the expertise.

[1:29:16] But in 2009, I graduated.

[1:29:18] There was seven natural areas there at the time.

[1:29:20] We added Nikula in there, and then I was there.

[1:29:23] I got the opportunity to be there

[1:29:24] in the very beginning and see all of that.

[1:29:26] But when we first started, we started with the 420 we called it, it was 428 acres, that's

[1:29:33] the historic forest.

[1:29:34] We fence that off first, eradicate the animals, start out planting from there, and then we just

[1:29:38] expanded.

[1:29:39] I don't know how many hundred thousand plants were put up there, but hundreds of thousands

[1:29:43] of plants were put up there.

[1:29:45] Recently, I had the opportunity to go back to that area and walk the fences, and it was just

[1:29:50] so beautiful, like seeing these triple overhead claws that we planted, and it was all grassland

[1:29:54] and when I first went there,

[1:29:55] hundreds of thousands of goats,

[1:29:57] and just you could smell the nitrogen

[1:29:58] coming out of the slur.

[1:30:00] And it's like, to know that we did it, we made a difference. I chaired up, I cried. So I just want to say I support Creakingway Restoration before our station. And with this initiative, you guys have the opportunity to do more than I could in 16 years. So thank you, guys. Thank you, Gabe, for starting this. And I believe that Creakingway is that missing link. There's Honnevie has all this moisture. We bring that moisture around the mountain. It will shoot across to Calave, from Calave.

[1:30:27] I'll go to Malakai, it'll reach Pukui, it's all one, you know, and thank you guys for this consideration, that's all I got to say.

[1:30:38] Let me see if we have any clarifying questions from our members, but I don't, but I really appreciate your testimony, thank you so much.

[1:30:46] Thank you guys, I'll break something, too.

[1:30:48] Okay, great.

[1:30:48] We have any other testifiers?

[1:30:52] Chair James Langford signed up for the summit of the item as well.

[1:30:58] Mr. Langford.

[1:30:59] Hi.

[1:31:00] I updated some grants for the projects being presented today on the Facebook page.

[1:31:12] And they should help actualize another 2.5 million for these projects.

[1:31:21] Thank you for that.

[1:31:23] Any clarifying questions, members?

[1:31:24] I see none.

[1:31:25] Thank you for your testimony, Minister Langford.

[1:31:27] Staff, do we have any more testifiers?

[1:31:29] Chair, staff has not received any further request for testimony.

[1:31:32] Would you like us to do a last call?

[1:31:33] Last call for any testifiers?

[1:31:36] Seeing none.

[1:31:37] Members, any objections to our now closed public testimony for the item?

[1:31:43] Any objections, members?

[1:31:45] Okay.

[1:31:45] Let's proceed with this agenda.

[1:31:46] And we're going to jump in a discussion here.

[1:31:50] I propose a three minutes per council member for each round of discussion.

[1:31:54] How about we do one round and then we'll take a quick recess for a morning break.

[1:32:00] So vice chair, Sunnancy, first round of questions, three minutes.

[1:32:08] All of the chair and Mahalo for all of the presentations and the presenters today.

[1:32:13] I did miss a little bit while I had some internet issues but great work and just to bottle

[1:32:23] for the update, just to see the progress throughout the year.

[1:32:28] So bottle for all you guys perseverance and continuation in your conservation work.

[1:32:35] And I think sometimes when, you know, what is, when we think about our identity as, you know,

[1:32:47] Maui Nui, I mean, conservation work is a big part of it.

[1:32:51] So again, follow for keeping up the fight.

[1:32:55] As legislators, we do attend a lot of conferences outside of the state.

[1:33:03] And so, one of the people that we do meet is the REPI program, and I was wondering if any of the work with, I believe, REPI is with the literary event that anyone works with them.

[1:33:24] Anyone here on the panel has ever worked with REPI and the military folks?

[1:33:29] I don't see, is there shaking your head, no?

[1:33:36] Okay, I think with the military, I've worked with some of them on the Scofield, Kapua Kovello

[1:33:46] that manages the Army Environmental Program, Scofield, West Range, Makua, and other military

[1:33:52] lands.

[1:33:54] I've had quite a lot of work experience on all military lands in Hawaii many years ago,

[1:33:59] law, West range, Kawaii law, school through barracks, so familiar with many of their lands.

[1:34:08] A lot has changed in 49-50 years. So, you know, again, I do have contact with, you know,

[1:34:18] the Kapua Kovello that manages our environmental areas on a particular monthly basis on different

[1:34:34] topics.

[1:34:35] I only bring it up chair is because I think one of their projects is working with one

[1:34:42] of the profits along the high-class slope.

[1:34:49] But for Mr. Paul, as far as Koholavi and the Kirk, do we still receive funding for the

[1:34:59] cleanup of Koholavi?

[1:35:01] There's no funding for the Koholavi of New York, so clean up this time.

[1:35:07] You know, we're still on the books, any UX that's found by us is the responsibility of the

[1:35:15] At this time, there's no active clearance of the area.

[1:35:20] All of our staff are trained, access guides, you know, not EOD status, but just how to recognize

[1:35:27] what the record, how to avoid any type of ordinance.

[1:35:34] Yeah.

[1:35:36] Okay.

[1:35:37] Thank you for that.

[1:35:38] Thank you, Chair.

[1:35:39] All right.

[1:35:40] Thank you, Council Member.

[1:35:41] Let's move on.

[1:35:41] Can we remember who will hajjins, followed by Council Member Cook?

[1:35:49] Thank you, Chair.

[1:35:50] I'm not too sure if I have any questions, only because that was a lot of information.

[1:35:56] All of it was so good and so interesting.

[1:35:58] I guess my question is for you, I'm assuming you're having this on the agenda because you're

[1:36:03] going to have them as one of your budget priorities in a few months, but I'm assuming we can't

[1:36:10] really discuss it, but I'm just going to assume.

[1:36:12] I'm super stoked about it.

[1:36:14] I think this is great.

[1:36:16] I'm actually looking since I'm sitting next to my bookshelf

[1:36:19] at Namae Al-Qaiko Klanikinui, which is the site

[1:36:25] of archeology since it was discussed.

[1:36:27] There my husband was a contributing author in here.

[1:36:29] So he's going to be super stoked that I'm reading this

[1:36:32] right now.

[1:36:33] But other than that, I really don't have any questions.

[1:36:35] And thank you for having this on your agenda.

[1:36:38] Of course.

[1:36:38] Thank you, Council Member.

[1:36:39] OK, let's move on to Council Member Tom Cook,

[1:36:41] I look forward to that, Charlie.

[1:36:43] Thank you, Chair.

[1:36:46] My battery died, so I'm not on line, but I'm here, and I'm looking forward to the break so I can plug it in.

[1:36:53] I just want to thank everybody.

[1:36:55] I want to thank you, Chair.

[1:36:56] I want to thank everybody here.

[1:36:57] This is, without a doubt, the most pleasant, positive, cool, wonderful council meeting that I've experienced in a long time.

[1:37:05] And the fact that the collaboration and cooperation of everybody, I mean, I get chickens

[1:37:15] can planting trees is a big thing for me, I planted a lot of trees in my life and that

[1:37:19] will Chinese proverb, you know, it was a best time, planted tree 20 years ago, was the

[1:37:23] next best time today, I would hope and encourage more before and after photos, like a pictures

[1:37:30] with the thousand words, and to capture people's imagination and to give them emotionally involved when you show pictures of this is what it looked like 15 years ago, and then you get testimonies from our young blood from the brothers who had actually grown up and experienced it.

[1:37:46] So,

[1:37:51] for me, for the West Maui, South Maui representative, the opportunity you have been working with Michael Reyes from Malamahalya Kala, the fact that the three ranches are collaborating non-profit, to be, you know, very willing, landstorts who recognize their Kuleana, to work with and enrich the land.

[1:38:14] And all the grazing on a lot of things have gone bad.

[1:38:17] And we have the opportunity to fix it.

[1:38:20] Tovalpa calendar from the Ridge to Reef project.

[1:38:24] They're doing really good work.

[1:38:26] I'm a retired contractor, Carpenter Retreat.

[1:38:29] My passion is to basically be able to do flood mitigation

[1:38:34] in North, in South Maui, especially in North Kihei.

[1:38:38] Capture the flood water.

[1:38:40] Major retention terraces, detention terraces.

[1:38:43] recharging aquifer, having storm waters storage, and then utilizing the R1 water,

[1:38:52] Malamala Kalan, working, got a tentative commitment, 500,000 gallons a day would be available for

[1:38:59] a 3 million gallon reservoir that Hala Kalan Ranch guys had a thousand foot elevation.

[1:39:04] So, and, you know,

[1:39:09] appropriate use of bulldozers excavators and stuff to do the civil work and

[1:39:14] working with the sensitivity for the replanting and what not.

[1:39:20] But anyway, I'm all in, I'm stoked.

[1:39:22] Finally, I'm stoked.

[1:39:24] We get to do something together and it's, we owe it to our kids.

[1:39:30] I'll just, my boy, Kamalay, has the property on Avalao that I had the good fortune to buy

[1:39:36] when I was young and the trees we planted with soil conservation are like this.

[1:39:42] I plan on two years before his born, he's 49, him and his

[1:39:46] my grandson. So it's not just talk, my heart's in it. Yeah. And

[1:39:51] every single one of you, the sharing and the diversity is awesome.

[1:39:57] So I don't really have any questions, because you did a really

[1:39:58] good presentation. I mean, it's epic. And I did get a chance to

[1:40:03] go up a hotline club ranch tour and see the cause planting

[1:40:07] and the description of the, I guess, monocarpit, monocrop style they tried that didn't really work out and now doing independent with the coatries and a lot of good things happening.

[1:40:22] I think we have to be patient, keep our hearts open and pray.

[1:40:28] Yeah. Well, it's going to take a big investment to do some of the things and they're not going to happen tomorrow.

[1:40:32] that's the whole point but you know it's helping our kids kids kids kids

[1:40:37] those are us or blessed with children yeah you can see the future through their

[1:40:41] eyes amen to that okay let's move on to chair Lee fall by councilmember Paulton

[1:40:47] thank you chair Johnson I too am very grateful and appreciative of this effort this

[1:40:56] wide range of resources coming together in partnership and cooperation and

[1:41:01] And it's enlightening and encouraging to see, considering we don't always see this type

[1:41:08] of cooperation in other areas, but this is great in everybody trying to work together

[1:41:14] for the community's benefit.

[1:41:18] Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to see the second presentation.

[1:41:22] I didn't realize the meeting would run this long.

[1:41:25] I have an appointment at 11, but I'm sure I can catch up with your notes later on.

[1:41:31] Thank you.

[1:41:31] All right.

[1:41:32] Thank you, Chair Lee.

[1:41:33] Let's move on to Council Member Paulton.

[1:41:40] Thank you, Chair.

[1:41:41] I think my questions might be firm, is there a firm that the co-ohana, or co-heking me

[1:41:48] about the bog drip clarification, was it $100,000 to meet 1,000 gallons a day and that be

[1:42:01] re-created in any ecosystem?

[1:42:06] Mr. Farm?

[1:42:10] Shoot-out.

[1:42:11] I'm sorry, I'm not sure what the question is.

[1:42:14] Our data shows that we can collect 2,000 gallons a day on an optimum day.

[1:42:21] And then the money that I highlighted was just to address installation of our fog-drip

[1:42:28] system.

[1:42:28] And,

[1:42:32] um, like, could that be done in Mahikur or is it specific to clicking me?

[1:42:42] So, uh, if I may, I can answer your question briefly.

[1:42:46] Um, I've been involved in the Water Catchment Project, uh, since, I want to say 2018 was

[1:42:54] when, um, Dr. James Rueck from UH first came over to reintroduce a grant that was actually

[1:42:59] originally written in 99, but to answer your question, the fog catchment is a very elevation

[1:43:07] specific project. Generally above 4,000 feet is where you find it more effective, even

[1:43:14] higher, between 4,000 and 6,000 feet is the most effective range to create clogged grip,

[1:43:20] as well as somewhere that has prevailing trade winds, because the system works through

[1:43:26] that we by cloud being blown through the fog nets, where the water will collect and

[1:43:32] drip into gutters that can run down. So this system can be applied in many different

[1:43:37] locations on Maui, but again, it's all elevation and wind dependent.

[1:43:46] Do you have the schematics of how it's built?

[1:43:52] Mr. Pope?

[1:43:54] I do not have it with me, but we do have that information available.

[1:44:01] Okay.

[1:44:02] Thank you.

[1:44:03] And then the other question I had was, shoot, I forgot what the meat process was called

[1:44:11] that allows the deer meat to be certified.

[1:44:18] Was it by sight or camera?

[1:44:20] Ms. Buckman?

[1:44:22] Or I'm sorry, I'm not sure I thought it was Ms. Buck, but anybody can respond to that.

[1:44:29] I believe they went through a process with the state veterinarian and

[1:44:34] Department of Health to be certified, their whole team had to be trained and certified.

[1:44:40] I'm not entirely sure exactly how it works, but I know it was a very lengthy,

[1:44:45] lengthy process to go through its Department of Health and took a lot of training.

[1:44:51] And you have to have the timing the animals have to be killed and processed within a very

[1:44:57] quick amount of time.

[1:44:59] So there's some limitations.

[1:45:09] Okay.

[1:45:13] And then, oh, my other question, I think is for Mr. Higash, you know,

[1:45:22] clavella is your son? I think I had him for a junior life bar.

[1:45:28] Yes, he's my son. And also one of the main grasses we plant on Kool-Abi.

[1:45:36] Nice.

[1:45:37] That wasn't my question, but I just was increased.

[1:45:41] Is there like a constant, I never went to Kuhlavi.

[1:45:45] Is there like a constant presence there?

[1:45:48] Like somebody lives there at all times

[1:45:49] and is continuing the work, like rotating

[1:45:53] or whether that's somebody's address?

[1:45:56] You know, right now, Hona, can I have a base camp?

[1:45:59] You know, because of limited funding,

[1:46:01] it's not fully staffed all the time.

[1:46:06] So, you know, with additional funding, you know, we could increase the presence of people on island.

[1:46:12] Typically, before in a good year, we could take about 800 to 1,000 volunteers out of island,

[1:46:18] but because of our cutbacks and reduction in staff and monies, we're down to about 400 or 500 volunteers a year.

[1:46:27] We still, you know, again, take out the public, whoever waits on our wait list, and, you know,

[1:46:36] follow through with all the paperwork.

[1:46:41] Okay.

[1:46:42] Thank you.

[1:46:43] I heard the bill.

[1:46:44] I had one more question, but I can wait till the next round.

[1:46:46] Okay.

[1:46:48] I'll go next, and then we'll go for a second round if I hand raised.

[1:46:52] So, you know, members and everybody here, this type of project, this type of work is not

[1:46:59] cheap, but if we don't do it, the cost is even more expensive.

[1:47:04] So I guess I'm trying to prep the council and the administrators that, when I put in a

[1:47:11] priority for this type of work, it's not going to be a small ask, it's going to be in the

[1:47:16] millions.

[1:47:16] understand what we're trying to do here, because you're trying to change

[1:47:20] anti-the-nots of just mismanagement for years and years and the compounding of just

[1:47:25] not taking care of the INA. If we would have done it in the beginning

[1:47:29] it would have been a whole lot cheaper, but here we are in 2025 trying to

[1:47:33] untie the knots of the past, and it's going to cost the money, understand that.

[1:47:38] But if we don't do anything, it's going to cost so much more.

[1:47:43] So, I saw that Jade jumped on the call, Rojas, are you still here, did I see you on the

[1:47:52] call?

[1:47:55] Okay, Miss, there she is, I wanted to ask you in regards to the office, you know, OED,

[1:48:05] some of the jobs that you guys are focusing on for economic diversity are very important healthcare

[1:48:10] jobs and everything.

[1:48:11] but how about the green jobs, these folks in conservation,

[1:48:15] you know, the green collar jobs that I used to do

[1:48:18] when I was worked in the wildlife technician

[1:48:21] with Poulomal at night.

[1:48:23] How is the OED addressing those type of industry,

[1:48:28] you know, the green collar jobs?

[1:48:32] Thank you for the question, Chair, and a lot of council members.

[1:48:36] So this actually falls perfectly within our workforce innovation

[1:48:39] and Opportunity Act, so the Wheel of Program that we have.

[1:48:42] It's actually a federal mandate that's passed to the state, which we administer through

[1:48:47] the county.

[1:48:48] And so, these green jobs specifically would fall into that.

[1:48:52] They are considered emerging and in-demand jobs under the federal definitions of the program.

[1:48:58] So, we'll talk about multiple different types of jobs, right?

[1:49:00] Like the conservation and land management technicians, native ecosystems, restoration workers,

[1:49:06] GIS and environmental monitoring specialists, sustainable construction and green infrastructure

[1:49:10] Dr. Jobs along and as well the cultural resource management

[1:49:14] physician.

[1:49:15] So we all support the training in these high growth sectors

[1:49:18] absolutely.

[1:49:19] And then we're also working with the Federal Repi Grant, too.

[1:49:22] And I think then this project would fall into those programs

[1:49:26] that they could qualify for them.

[1:49:29] Thank you, Director Rojasla T.C., that's a good point you made

[1:49:33] about the rep because council members'

[1:49:35] ascendancy was asking that question as well.

[1:49:37] So thank you so much for your response.

[1:49:39] members, we're going to go to the second round and I know Councilmember Paulin had a second

[1:49:44] round but you know just by raise the hands but go ahead Councilmember Paulin.

[1:49:50] Thank you Tara for Mr. Hegashino as well. Is it true that the aquifer or the water table

[1:50:00] on Koholavi is cracked?

[1:50:06] You know the fact that you know just the groundwater and Koholavi you know I drew that the lack

[1:50:13] of it or being able to find it. There was a season of the island by the Afro-Animals

[1:50:20] removing the vegetation, not allowing infiltration or percolation of the water after a heavy

[1:50:27] rain. I know there's been talk about certain military activities that cracked the cap rock,

[1:50:34] but I'm not too sure. I've not done any evidence on that. But again, it's just being able

[1:50:42] to, you know, what I understand of water systems, you know, the recharge, if you're not getting

[1:50:48] anything percolating down and, you know, running off, you know, the possibility are not

[1:50:56] eliminated, but they're reduced. It's less, you know, a lot of our, some of our work with

[1:51:01] the Department of Health, clean water branch, we're looking at, you know, recharge of certain

[1:51:06] areas mainly places that we do plant in hot masses of water go down compared to areas

[1:51:13] that we don't plant the hard pan trying to get things samples like that or data like

[1:51:19] that to show that long term restoration efforts long term of protecting covering the soil

[1:51:26] will or may in time recharge or add more water to the ground table.

[1:51:33] And are you able to do, like, any composting over there to make the ground less hard?

[1:51:43] And I guess, you know, the areas where you weren't able to clear below the surface

[1:51:48] and you can't dig to plant the tree, if the tree roots go down that way,

[1:51:54] is that a danger for the, you know, the,

[1:51:59] you know, we do do composting limited bases.

[1:52:02] is a lot of it's sometimes the time in material,

[1:52:06] I mean the time in Effort on Island,

[1:52:08] do you put it making something,

[1:52:11] sane in base camp doing it,

[1:52:12] or do you get the people out,

[1:52:14] educating, showing them the people and planting?

[1:52:18] A lot of the techniques that we do is in Kool-Ave,

[1:52:21] I tell people, we did develop it.

[1:52:23] It's things that people have been doing for centuries

[1:52:26] to slow down the COVID desert, to slow down the Sahara desert.

[1:52:30] You know, many examples in Hawaii, the Kohala's,

[1:52:33] Kihikinui, Manukan, the Big Island, planting in mounds,

[1:52:37] how Hawaiian survived in harsh, dry, walk rocky systems.

[1:52:42] So it's, you know, how do you balance, make all these stuff

[1:52:48] enough to buy it, or buy the material, ship it to the island,

[1:52:52] and then get the people out there, hands, you know,

[1:52:55] boots on the ground, hands, you know, doing,

[1:52:57] I mean, during the work,

[1:53:02] I think with that, too,

[1:53:04] we can't sort of come out to see the island and the experiences of the responsibility

[1:53:15] that all of us have to try to restore it and to bring it back for the people of Hawaii.

[1:53:21] Well, you don't have to invite us twice, we'll be on that boat.

[1:53:24] So, okay, Kazuma, are you good?

[1:53:28] Is it possible that roots could go down and trigger

[1:53:33] the unexploded ordinances?

[1:53:43] Hopefully not.

[1:53:45] I mean, you know, anything, the fact that a URXO didn't go off,

[1:53:48] people say this is a dud.

[1:53:50] You know, something didn't trigger it, something didn't turn,

[1:53:52] something didn't connect.

[1:53:55] You know, again, I'm not military UD.

[1:53:58] I don't know the ins and outs of all of them, but I'm not going to take the chance, you know,

[1:54:03] I want to be able to do a regular shocker with both hands and not the...

[1:54:13] Members, I appreciate this, we got another item on the agenda, this is really good discussion.

[1:54:18] I, you saw everybody here who gave great presentations.

[1:54:21] We can certainly reach out for you for more discussion.

[1:54:24] I hate to end this discussion right now because it's so good and important, but we do have

[1:54:30] another item on the agenda.

[1:54:31] I want to thank you all for your time.

[1:54:33] And if the members want to, though,

[1:54:36] I'm sure they'll reach out to you and continue the discussion.

[1:54:38] But at this time, members, if there's no objection,

[1:54:40] I will defer this item.

[1:54:43] Okay, I suggest we take about a 10-minute recess, members.

[1:54:46] Are you okay with 10 minutes?

[1:54:48] All right, so the time is now 11.02 at 11.12.

[1:54:53] The adept committee will come back

[1:54:54] from its recess with a different item in agenda, Mahalo.

[1:54:58] So,

[1:55:11] today we have a depth one, parentheses 12, aquifer mapping, and long-term monitoring

[1:55:16] of water resources on Maui.

[1:55:18] Members, water is life.

[1:55:21] Unfortunately, the amount we know about this life-giving resource does not reflect its

[1:55:25] importance.

[1:55:27] Where do our aquifiers stretch exactly?

[1:55:29] How much water can be sustainably yielded?

[1:55:32] At what levels are brackish, or salty, or fresh?

[1:55:35] These are questions which we do not have a comprehensive

[1:55:38] accurate and up-to-date information on.

[1:55:41] Having this data is needed to properly plan and prioritize

[1:55:44] our water use for agriculture and development now

[1:55:47] for generations to come.

[1:55:49] Dr. John Heley proposes an innovative solution

[1:55:52] to our problem of missing data.

[1:55:54] Using airborne magnetic imagery, he can do an MRI of sorts

[1:55:58] that will show us what is happening underground

[1:56:01] in our aquifers.

[1:56:03] I have invited him today to tell us more about his

[1:56:05] Proposal. Dr. Helle is an affiliated with San Diego Supercomputer Center in Scripps

[1:56:10] Institution of Oceanography, University of California San Diego, a special consultant

[1:56:17] in the State of California Department of Water Resources and a member of the County

[1:56:21] of Maui Board Water Supply. Members, if there's no objection to like

[1:56:25] to designate Dr. Helle as their resource person on our council rules 18A given his expertise

[1:56:30] cheese and aqua mapping and monitor water resource.

[1:56:33] Any objections, members?

[1:56:35] Thank you, members.

[1:56:36] Dr. Helly, thank you for being here,

[1:56:37] and please proceed with your presentation.

[1:56:44] Thank you, Chair Johnson.

[1:56:45] Thank you, members, for your attention.

[1:56:47] Appreciate the opportunity to talk to you

[1:56:49] about water resources and water in general.

[1:56:53] We good?

[1:56:58] This is an AEM project that's a convenient acronym

[1:57:02] for airborne electromagnetic imaging.

[1:57:05] And we're focusing on West Maui,

[1:57:07] although what I'm going to talk about is applicable really anywhere in the world that there's ground water issues.

[1:57:14] And the project itself, the large purpose of the project, is to develop a new water resource modeling and monitoring and management framework based on characterization of our ground water aquifers.

[1:57:28] And to expand the existing modeling capabilities that are currently and historically in use involving the USGS, the County Department of Water Supply, the State and the University of Hawaii.

[1:57:43] And the goal is to support adaptive management order resources.

[1:57:47] This is an initiative advanced by the deputy director, Connie, at the CWARM, and we believe

[1:57:59] that this project will contribute substantially to that and even be a pathfinder in many ways.

[1:58:06] The goal is to standardize our approach to it both statewide and with Maui as a initial

[1:58:15] value by standing up a long-term operational model that provides decision support to our

[1:58:21] partners initially and then ultimately to any member of the state or the water community

[1:58:29] throughout the state that has an interest in this.

[1:58:32] But also, and I don't want this to be lost in what I'll show you subsequently, the goals

[1:58:37] to also establish a long-term training program for professional staff and students both through

[1:58:44] the University and in the municipal, state, federal agencies in Hawaii with knowledge of

[1:58:52] Hawaii resources and peculiarities, but to make that a longstanding institutional asset

[1:59:00] and program.

[1:59:02] So I'll focus on that, but I also want to highlight it at the outset.

[1:59:08] This is the big picture, it's got a bunch of different pieces here, I'm going to start at

[1:59:13] the bottom.

[1:59:13] Actually, we're starting the upper right.

[1:59:15] That's the goal is to make sure water comes out of our taps in a reliable way.

[1:59:21] And it proceeds that way by the function of the services of water utilities.

[1:59:26] But in order for these water utilities to do their job, and

[1:59:29] that's a water utility is something like the Department of Water Supply or

[1:59:33] Hawaii Water Service or any of the other six or seven different water utilities.

[1:59:38] throughout west Maui and I'll keep referring to west Maui as an example.

[1:59:44] How that water is provided goes all the way back to the lower left of this cartoon, which

[1:59:51] shows rain coming into buikakui in this notional example.

[1:59:55] The rain flows down through the volcano,

[1:59:58] pools up in various...

[2:00:00] There are a lot of unknowns about the nature and extent of these aquifers, and the project itself, the airborne electromagnetic mapping or imaging, is a project to focus on characterizing those aquifers using helicopters to fly an instrument that zigzags in that mapping pattern that is shown in the cartoon by sending a signal down into the earth like an MRI type.

[2:00:31] sensor and returning data that is then forwarded into a modeling and analysis capability that

[2:00:38] lets us predict and monitor the sustainable resources that we have that are both being

[2:00:46] recharged or not and the degree to which pumping affects our ability to have a reliable water

[2:00:53] supply.

[2:00:55] So this is the big picture, I'm going to come back to it.

[2:00:58] Some of the data from the groundwater wells are shown at the top, I'll talk a little

[2:01:03] bit more about those time series plots I refer to them as we get along here.

[2:01:08] This is just meant to give you an introduction to the overview of the project.

[2:01:14] So the imaging works by a sensor that hangs beneath the helicopter.

[2:01:20] you see it here as a little cone depicted below these cartoon helicopters.

[2:01:27] It's not quite a circle, but it's approximately like that.

[2:01:29] It's about a 20 to 30 meter wide antenna.

[2:01:33] It sends out electromagnetic waves like radio,

[2:01:38] and it goes down into the volcanic rock to about 500 meters,

[2:01:42] stimulates the rock electrically,

[2:01:44] and the water of various kinds, whether it's fresh or salt or brackish,

[2:01:48] And they have different kinds of electromagnetic responses, and because of that, we are able

[2:01:53] to measure that response and turn it into data.

[2:01:59] And the project itself now is constituted by these six agency partners or the project

[2:02:06] partners, I should say, Ina Hoekpua, Okilauea, we refer to fondly as AHK, there are three folks

[2:02:14] on Kauai, who are part of the initial project team.

[2:02:19] We have CWARM now, Deputy Director Kiarra Kahane and Ryan Yamamata, or Yamada Ruther,

[2:02:27] who is a hydrologic program manager in Maui's Department of Water Supply Director John

[2:02:33] Stoffelbein, UH Manoa representatives, Dr. Amir Haroon, who is a geophysicist, Dr. Jilong

[2:02:42] who is a modeler, we have the Pacific Island Water Science Center folks from the USGS

[2:02:49] through Dr. Stevens onizer, and some industry contact, at least one industry contact

[2:02:55] through Blue Rock LLC, Eric Eldred.

[2:03:00] And this is not meant to be exclusive or limiting, this is our nucleus to start with.

[2:03:05] So our problem statement, and this focuses on Westside Maui, is that we're heavily dependent

[2:03:10] on over pumped groundwater.

[2:03:12] We know that precipitation is decreasing.

[2:03:15] Our supplemental water surface water is erratic and diminishing, and this leads to declining

[2:03:21] water quantity and water quality, as everyone more or less realizes now, I believe.

[2:03:29] We're faced with no new housing without water.

[2:03:31] We have no additional potable water without more rain, desalination, or what's referred to as R0.

[2:03:38] Most of you have heard of R1 and know what R1 is.

[2:03:42] It's recycled water. R0 is recycled, but also qualified for potable use.

[2:03:47] It's equivalent to the kind of water that astronauts use in outer space.

[2:03:54] In the meantime, our only choice is really in the short term or to reallocate our existing resources.

[2:03:58] And those reallocation decisions and sustainable limits need information that doesn't exist

[2:04:04] at the moment.

[2:04:05] So how do you make these decisions about understanding aquifer conditions?

[2:04:11] Historically, the exploitation of groundwater in Maui has been quite extensive.

[2:04:18] This is a map of all the, I guess, known to seaworm in the sense that these are red dots

[2:04:26] and green dots that are the well locations and the surface water diversion locations throughout Maui in the history that's recorded by seaworm.

[2:04:37] Not all of these wells in West Maui are currently active, I'll show you a currently active set.

[2:04:43] But this gives you an idea of the intense development of groundwater throughout the island and doesn't reflect the rest of the county of course.

[2:04:51] but this also reflects the limits of our knowledge.

[2:04:54] Students are making time out here.

[2:04:56] Okay, and here.

[2:04:57] Yep.

[2:04:57] You lose it?

[2:04:58] I don't hear nothing.

[2:05:00] How about now, can you guys hear us?

[2:05:02] Hello, up.

[2:05:04] Okay.

[2:05:05] Can you hear us now?

[2:05:07] No, I just heard you.

[2:05:09] Okay.

[2:05:10] How about Council Member Sunnancy?

[2:05:12] I saw you.

[2:05:13] Can you hear us?

[2:05:15] Everybody's got thumbs up.

[2:05:16] I don't know what's going on with the internet,

[2:05:17] but I think we can continue if everybody can hear us.

[2:05:20] Where did you lose me, I guess, just I guess second ago.

[2:05:24] Okay, so this is an old map from Sterns and McDonald's,

[2:05:28] the authoritative geological reference.

[2:05:31] Things really haven't changed since 1942

[2:05:33] in our geologic knowledge, but we've continued

[2:05:37] to drill wells throughout the island nonetheless.

[2:05:40] This is a cross section through the West Maui Mountains

[2:05:45] showing the ocean on the left, which is the channel

[2:05:49] out toward the Pylola channel and on the other side you can see Wikapoo, but this depicts

[2:05:57] the stratification of the volcano and the green layers and the red layers are things

[2:06:02] that are called dikes, which are vertical chunks or vertical streams of basalt rock that

[2:06:08] come up from the volcanic center in terms of magma and they create barriers to water flow.

[2:06:15] So the water flows from Malka to Makai and gets trapped in these rocks.

[2:06:24] The problem we have in West Maui is we have a crisis of over pumping, and you can see

[2:06:30] that in these data.

[2:06:32] On the left hand side, this is salt level and the different concentrations for the various

[2:06:37] pumps.

[2:06:38] So this is I think 23 wells throughout West Maui.

[2:06:42] For example, here are conopoly wells, they're operated by the Hawaii Water Service.

[2:06:49] And there's a mixture here of wells that are operated by both the county, the private water supply, and private water systems.

[2:06:58] And the problems that we face are the red line indicates where there's an acceptable threshold for drinking water, potable water.

[2:07:07] And when the lines exceed that, when the time series lines, the colored lines that are not red, exceed that red line, that's when there's a problem and the water can't be directly consumed by humans safely.

[2:07:23] So what can we do about this water scarcity?

[2:07:25] We need to know more about where the water is and what's sustainable to extract, and that requires a long term water monitoring program, which we do not have.

[2:07:35] The current methods are inadequate and they lack sufficient data.

[2:07:40] And the well data, while it's important and currently collected by the state, it's

[2:07:45] not sufficient.

[2:07:46] There's more needed about what's going on in the wells, but you cannot build enough

[2:07:51] wells, monitor wells, or instrumented wells.

[2:07:55] You can't build enough to really understand what's going on in a way that we need to.

[2:07:59] A solution to that is the airborne electromagnetic imaging approach.

[2:08:04] It provides key missing information and combined with well data on an ongoing monitoring

[2:08:10] basis the way it's currently collected as well as an intensified program and combined

[2:08:16] with the AEM-based modeling provides the best solution to the problem.

[2:08:22] And that's not just best solution in Maui, it's a best solution in the world.

[2:08:26] So, here's an example of what AEM and modeling can achieve, and this is an example from

[2:08:33] Hawks Bay New Zealand that flew the same instrument that we're planning on flying here on Maui.

[2:08:40] And it flies from Malca to Makai, so if you can see this cursor on the left here, so this

[2:08:48] This is an upland maca in New Zealand down to the ocean through Hawks Bay, if you're familiar

[2:08:55] with any of that area, and what the model was able to generate through the data provided

[2:09:01] by the AEM sensor is where there's fresh water and where the water is flowing within this

[2:09:08] volcanic terrain.

[2:09:10] Remember that New Zealand is also a volcanic island nation.

[2:09:16] So if we look at what we're planning to do with just respect to West Maui, this is what

[2:09:21] we've been scoping currently.

[2:09:24] The current project scope is West Maui.

[2:09:26] Our goal is to connect the dots by flying the helicopter over this terrain in a jigsaw

[2:09:33] pad or rather mowing the lawn pattern as a better way to look at it.

[2:09:38] Connecting those dots and developing that into a three-dimensional image, which is similar

[2:09:45] I look to the one I just showed you for Hawkes Bay, I'll show you a representation that's

[2:09:49] pertinent to us Maui in a moment.

[2:09:52] But there are areas that we can't fly, and that's due to the FAA flight restrictions

[2:09:58] of not being able to fly over heavily populated areas with an instrument hanging below a helicopter

[2:10:04] or an aircraft of any type really.

[2:10:07] And our preliminary budget estimate to do this has a non-recurring cost of about $2.5 million

[2:10:13] dollars in the first year with a recurring cost that goes on indefinitely into the future

[2:10:18] to support the monitoring program of about half a million dollars.

[2:10:23] So the goal here is to fly the helicopter instrument once, collect the data with it tells

[2:10:29] us the structure of the aquifers, their interconnectivity, and where they're located, and then to monitor

[2:10:38] that resource over time using well data and other ground-based instruments that the University

[2:10:46] of Hawaii has actually developed recently.

[2:10:49] I'm not going to go into those in this presentation, but there is more to the story than what

[2:10:54] I'm just telling you to hear today.

[2:10:58] This shows you West Maui from kind of somewhere out in the middle of the channel, high up looking

[2:11:05] down a pool of cacouille here, here's Cal Louis in the background, and these data that are

[2:11:12] the colored vertical streams, I don't know how well you can see this in the computer image,

[2:11:19] are the data observations that come from the helicopter, and then we can calculate cross sections,

[2:11:25] and that's what this shows here. I actually have an animation of this, which I'm prepared to show you,

[2:11:30] but I don't want to interrupt the presentation because we make it hung up in Internet stuff that will distract at the moment, we can come back to it if there's time.

[2:11:41] But the color coding of these streams are the lethology of the rocks.

[2:11:48] They tell us what layers correspond to what types of rocks and those different layers have different hydraulic properties they refer to as.

[2:11:57] They conduct water more or less effectively, and how those rocks are connected

[2:12:03] Define the aquifer structures, and so a lot of cartoons that you see typically

[2:12:11] Invision they are give the impression that there's a kind of a water lake underneath Maui or anywhere

[2:12:17] That has this kind of island structure when it's really much more like a sponge

[2:12:21] So if you imagine a sponge sitting in your kitchen sink, excuse me, and you run water on it, the sponge will saturate, but it'll accumulate in the spaces and voids within your sponge, and if you sponge and if you stuck a straw into the sponge, that's really what groundwater wells are doing within the volcanic rock.

[2:12:45] This is the working schedule that we have planned for this project.

[2:12:49] We believe the funding in hand to start this for a total of close to $3 million between funding on the island of Kauai through the NGOHK, which are referred to earlier, plus additional funding, which we depend on from the Department of Water Supply through Director Stufflebean, and he can comment on that, I'm sure himself.

[2:13:14] But the plan is to fly the helicopter missions in 2026 and the bulk of the cost comes from the flight time for the helicopter.

[2:13:25] But once the helicopter data acquisition is done flying Maui and Kauai, then we, and currently, concurrently with the acquisition of those data, we can do model development.

[2:13:40] So, the helicopter data will be collected during the first few quarters of 2026.

[2:13:47] We'll have the deliverables completed by the beginning of 2027.

[2:13:53] The QAQC for those data will take about two years as we go through the modeling process and

[2:14:00] understand where there's need for clarification of the data that have been collected or

[2:14:07] and then the model results, meaning the results that we can use to manage pumping operations

[2:14:14] and to do predictions about what are resources are available to us, will begin to appear

[2:14:21] at the end of 2027 based on this schedule. And then we can shift into a long-term monitoring

[2:14:27] and operations mode in the green, which would just extend indefinitely into the future involving

[2:14:33] seaworm, the county, the NGO on Kauai, and hopefully their local water agencies, as well

[2:14:43] as the USGS. Our expected results are sustainable and adaptive pumping limits, so the well-diagrams

[2:14:53] or plots that I showed you earlier that show well- pumping operations that exceed potable

[2:14:58] or limits.

[2:15:00] We would be able to be maintained operationally below those limits in an ongoing way. And it will also tell us the best and worst places for future wells if there are any. One of the concerns people have expressed is that this is a water discovery project. And it's not the primary focus, our primary focus is to understand what exists and how to best manage it. Given the intensity of water

[2:15:29] development historically on Maui, it would be surprising if there are undiscovered water resources.

[2:15:35] Of course, it's a possibility it can't be ruled out, but it would be a surprise at least to me.

[2:15:41] So what we're talking about is an ongoing monitoring, modeling, and decision-making process

[2:15:46] that allows us to judiciously allocate water for current and future social activities, and also to

[2:15:56] to provide again the professional opportunities

[2:15:58] for future generations through education training

[2:16:01] and employment, through the university program

[2:16:04] in cooperation with the state agencies

[2:16:06] and with the federal agencies.

[2:16:11] We've only focused so far on the west side,

[2:16:15] the west Maui rather, and in particular,

[2:16:18] on the west side of west Maui,

[2:16:20] but there's a natural and easy extension

[2:16:24] And once the helicopter and the instrument are here, obviously we're going to fly Kauai as well.

[2:16:29] It would be a relatively straightforward extension to fly the rest of the island.

[2:16:36] You can see that it's well development throughout the rest of East Maui and

[2:16:41] the South Central area as well as the Hanna areas.

[2:16:45] We could do that.

[2:16:47] It takes money and it would be about $2 million probably to fly the rest of Maui,

[2:16:53] given what we know about the west side planning we've done.

[2:16:58] So to summarize, this is just the first slide that I had.

[2:17:03] We want to develop a new monitoring and management water resource framework.

[2:17:07] We do, we start it by characterizing the aquifers, so we get a better handle on what we know and

[2:17:12] don't know.

[2:17:14] We expand our current modeling capabilities to take advantage of those data, and then we

[2:17:18] support the adaptive management approach being undertaken at the state and presumably at the county levels and then standardize this in a way that can be institutionalized through professional and educational opportunities for future generations.

[2:17:39] Thank you, that's the end of my presentation.

[2:17:41] I have the animation that I can show you if we care to see that.

[2:17:45] Sure.

[2:17:46] You want to set it up right now?

[2:17:47] We're going to...

[2:17:48] Whatever.

[2:17:49] Whichever way you want to go.

[2:17:50] Yeah.

[2:17:50] Let's see if we can see it.

[2:17:52] All right.

[2:17:53] We'll pray to the Internet guys that it works, and if not, we can jump right into it.

[2:17:58] Well, so far so good.

[2:18:01] This is the animation, and let me see if I can find the thing that opens it up.

[2:18:11] Okay,

[2:18:14] I'm reluctant to go too far out here, but what you're seeing is the cross section

[2:18:19] that I showed you earlier in the static image crossing through the data that would be collected

[2:18:25] by the helicopter, and if I interrupt it, I can stop it just about now.

[2:18:34] And that cross-section is a vertical cross-section through the volcano, which shows both the permeable and the non-permeable layers.

[2:18:44] Right now the data are made up based on the lithology data that I have from the Mahinahina deep monitor well.

[2:18:52] It's the only well we have with this kind of information at the moment.

[2:18:56] There are a number of other, all the driller as well, logs, which provide similar, but not reliable information.

[2:19:04] But this gives you an idea of what we'll be able to understand that we don't know, which is if you imagine the light blue line, if it looks that way to you.

[2:19:13] Within this cross section, this would delineate the actual freshwater resources that we have in the aquifers.

[2:19:20] give us the integrated view of these cross-sections which show us the distribution in shape of the aquifers and allow us to understand and model the consequences of additional pumping or the levels of intensity of pumping that affect the salt concentration in the water that we extract.

[2:19:43] Okay, thank you, Dr. for your excellent presentation.

[2:19:47] I want to see if we can get some comments from the administration.

[2:19:53] Director Stuffelbeen, are you on the call?

[2:19:56] We're going to turn off this chair.

[2:19:58] Okay, Director, floor is yours.

[2:20:02] Sure, I've been working with, or listening mostly to John,

[2:20:07] provide a few months on this, and it has some very exciting potential. Identify the problem

[2:20:14] exactly correctly, which is that we have dacophers here on Maui, tend to be very heterogeneous.

[2:20:22] It isn't like other acophers that I've been in other places, it's like a big bowl of sand,

[2:20:26] so it's kind of the same no matter where you are, but here it's very different as you move

[2:20:30] across the acophers because of the way the rock was deposited very, you know, haphazardly

[2:20:36] from the volcanic explosion and the eruption.

[2:20:39] So, you know, and so the fact that you can't put it up well

[2:20:41] into really understand what's going on in a thorough basis.

[2:20:45] So, remote monitoring is a great idea.

[2:20:49] I'm totally supportive of seeing if we can make this work.

[2:20:52] You know, it is really C-worm's responsibility to do this,

[2:20:55] but I'm totally willing to do what we can to help.

[2:20:58] And, you know, as the party utility,

[2:21:01] it would be extremely valuable information for us to have.

[2:21:04] So, we're supportive.

[2:21:05] Thank you.

[2:21:05] All right, thank you, Director Steffel-Bean.

[2:21:08] Okay, let's move on to public testimony for adjusted at one parentheses, 12.

[2:21:15] At this time, if there's anyone wishing to testify on this item, please use the raise

[2:21:19] your hand function, and you'll be called upon to testify.

[2:21:23] Staff, is there anyone wishing to testify?

[2:21:27] No chair, the individual who was originally signed up has left the call.

[2:21:31] Okay.

[2:21:32] Members, seeing there are no more individuals wishing to testify.

[2:21:34] Wow, now closed public testimony for this item.

[2:21:36] Any objections, members?

[2:21:38] Thank you.

[2:21:39] Let's proceed with this agenda.

[2:21:42] A depth one, parentheses 12, aquifer mapping, and long term monitoring of water resources on Maui.

[2:21:49] I propose three minutes per council member for each round of discussion.

[2:21:54] And we'll just go down the same route, and that would be vice chair,

[2:21:58] Residency, Council Member Noilani, ooh, Hodges.

[2:22:01] Noilani, ooh, Hodges.

[2:22:03] Council Member Alesslee, Council Member Alesslee,

[2:22:05] Council Member Paul Michael.

[2:22:06] And I'm hearing an echo.

[2:22:08] Got it? Okay.

[2:22:11] Council Member Sinensee.

[2:22:19] Oh, a lot of minute, Council Member Sinensee,

[2:22:21] you're on mute and just let you go.

[2:22:24] And just let you go.

[2:22:25] Same thing as before and in my priorities.

[2:22:27] This might be one of my priorities.

[2:22:28] I don't know why I keep...

[2:22:29] Okay, I don't know why I keep that good.

[2:22:31] Can you hear me now?

[2:22:33] Very when I try to speak.

[2:22:35] Very when I try to speak.

[2:22:37] Model for the presentation.

[2:22:39] Go ahead.

[2:22:40] Yep.

[2:22:41] So for this type of technology that would just kind of locate where the aquifers are instead

[2:22:53] of trying to, you know, guess where they're at and to see I guess how much first water or

[2:23:02] salt water is in them. That's correct. That's correct. The data on your part. The data on your

[2:23:08] part. Conspiracy. Do you? Conspiracy. Do you have a license? Another device on? We're getting

[2:23:20] I know the fan was on. Okay, are you still getting in there? Okay. Yeah, yeah, am I on twice?

[2:23:30] We're gonna have councilman. We're gonna have you councilman. Every time he's not talking that's not

[2:23:47] I don't know if you have two windows open, I don't know, anyways, he's muted, so...

[2:23:55] Well, let me try and answer the question, I think I understand it, if you can hear me.

[2:23:59] The, I assume you can still hear me, okay.

[2:24:04] The instrument sends energy down and gets back a pulse.

[2:24:09] So we got a bunch of profiles.

[2:24:10] Those profiles can be integrated together to create a picture,

[2:24:15] a three-dimensional picture showing exactly where the fresh water is,

[2:24:20] the extent of it, where the boundary is with the impermeable volcanic rock around it.

[2:24:25] So from that we can calculate the volumes of that water supply and we can calculate the

[2:24:32] interconnectivity and then use those data in a three-dimensional model, conventional

[2:24:38] models that the USGS has developed and uses widely in other places in order to calculate

[2:24:45] where the water flows to and from as well as the consequences of pumping operations on

[2:24:52] those water volumes and on the intrusion by seawater into the fresh water resource itself.

[2:25:06] And then do we see the same type of act because we have volcanic rock?

[2:25:13] Can we see the same type of aquifer collapse like some of the other areas on the mainland?

[2:25:20] Dr. Hilli?

[2:25:21] Dr. Hilli?

[2:25:23] That's an interesting question.

[2:25:24] And there's a lot of subsidence in the Central Valley of California, for example.

[2:25:29] And in the Southwest of the United States,

[2:25:34] we don't experience that here,

[2:25:36] because we don't have sedimentation the same way that they do.

[2:25:39] So that the rock itself provides a lot of structure.

[2:25:43] There may be areas that do collapse because of marginal integrity,

[2:25:48] and the water somehow contributes to their structural integrity.

[2:25:53] I don't think that would generally be the case and it might even be a rare exception for it to a worker, but they're not the same kind of conditions that we have.

[2:26:04] So if we deplete a volume here, if we pump fresh water exhaustively from an area, our problem is that sea water comes in to replace it.

[2:26:19] Okay, thank you, thank you, Chair.

[2:26:22] Thank you, Council Member.

[2:26:24] Okay, let's move on to Council Member Uehadjins,

[2:26:28] followed by Council Member Cook.

[2:26:31] Thank you, Chair.

[2:26:32] For right now, I have no questions, either.

[2:26:34] Thank you for the presentation.

[2:26:36] I look forward to seeing this on your budget priorities.

[2:26:40] Sounds good.

[2:26:43] Council Member Cook, followed by, well, Council Member Paul.

[2:26:50] Thank you, Doctor.

[2:26:51] Is there a consensus on rates of recharge?

[2:26:56] I assume it would very greatly depending upon the terrain and the porosity of the soil and what not, but I've heard that it takes centuries, years.

[2:27:07] So could you give from your experience with Hawaiian soils what our recharges works?

[2:27:15] Sure.

[2:27:16] Based on USGS reports that I've read, not on direct firsthand experience, and the

[2:27:24] literature that I've read about it, the Hawaiian terrain is complicated, obviously, by the

[2:27:32] stratification.

[2:27:33] So, we get rainfall at the surface, let's say, from Pukuku, it percolates down through this

[2:27:40] structure and toward the ocean, the rechargerate near the surface and by the near the surface, I mean the first tens of meters into the groundwater aquifers when it gets down toward a macaque, it gets down low enough to pool up, so to speak.

[2:28:02] Then there's mixing below that, which is much slower on the order of 62, 90 years depending

[2:28:08] upon how it's measured, where it's measured, and how much rain there's been, and how

[2:28:15] much is taken upstream as well through pumping.

[2:28:18] But then there's water below that that we don't really know much about, certainly not in

[2:28:25] Maui, which probably moves on geologic timescales, which is more like 10,000 years.

[2:28:32] So there's a hierarchy, stratification of recharge, which is short-term, but still measured

[2:28:39] in years from a meaningful groundwater resource point of view, although it's stream flow at

[2:28:48] the surface as a reflection of groundwater.

[2:28:51] water, so that happens within days sometimes, but that's very shallow, if even penetrating

[2:28:58] it all.

[2:28:59] Then as you go down, the time constant changes, it gets longer and longer.

[2:29:04] My understanding is that we're talking about decades to centuries of the water resources

[2:29:11] that we've been taking, and that the plantations have been taking for 150 years.

[2:29:15] So, let me put it in the context for a South Maori, where we get a tremendous amount of flood waters from up country, the recharge on from Kulakai, basically the mountain you get cornerweathers, but in general, it's a very low rainfall, but you get a tremendous amount of water from the bridge line coming down.

[2:29:35] The idea of basically doing major detention,

[2:29:40] terraces, and basins to capture the flood water,

[2:29:44] that type of thing, say it, two thousand feet elevation,

[2:29:49] will that impact the, will that be recharge,

[2:29:53] and is it like my lifetime or somebody else's lifetime?

[2:29:58] and they try to reach out over.

[2:30:00] Recharge, intentional recharge like that, sometimes referred to as water banking, depends on where you do it. So if you're doing it in an area that's highly permeable, it'll happen in a short time. And it will happen, for example, to Larry Lake in California had a tremendous flood in 2017 and I think extending into 2018 water years, where there was a lake that appeared historically had been present.

[2:30:29] But it had also been not present for quite a long time on the order of 100 years, I think.

[2:30:36] But it reappeared because of the flood condition.

[2:30:39] That water disappeared within a year or two by intentional recharge and also natural percolation and evaporation.

[2:30:50] So it depends on where you put a recharge, detention basin, and what the underlying geology is.

[2:30:58] You probably don't want to put it down in a very low lying area where the water table is already high because you're not going to get near recharge or you're going to lose the freshwater resource to mixing.

[2:31:09] So probably that's a key consideration in the central.

[2:31:12] So I get a 2000 foot elevation.

[2:31:14] I don't know the I don't know the right number. I don't want to put a number on it because I don't think I don't know enough.

[2:31:19] We could fly as instrument and try and understand the structure of that area better and I think we could come up with a better answer.

[2:31:28] Thank you, sir.

[2:31:30] Okay. Let's move on to Councilmember Poulton.

[2:31:37] Thank you, Chair. So, first question.

[2:31:40] If we had this data from the AEM, we wouldn't need a guy like Tom Nance telling us where to place the wells

[2:31:50] because we'd see like where the water is and how semen it is, is that accurate to see?

[2:31:57] What Tom Nance uses to the things that I have to say is I've seen that he's done.

[2:32:02] He collects the same similar type of data using a single point source or a small number.

[2:32:09] So he puts antennas out in the field and we'll cover a particular area.

[2:32:15] Yeah. And that's a valuable thing. I've looked at those data in particular for West Maui.

[2:32:23] And we looked at what's called depth of penetration of his signals down to about, we estimate

[2:32:30] they could go to about 300 meters. This, which is about 6,000 feet, this instrument will

[2:32:39] We'll go to 500 meters and allow us to characterize the bottom layers of the volcanic strata much more completely.

[2:32:50] But also, in a way that Tom can't do or Mr. Nance, I don't know him personally.

[2:32:55] I shouldn't refer to him my first name is we can fly an area synoptically in a short period of time,

[2:33:04] get data of better quality over a broader area at a higher resolution than you can achieve

[2:33:12] by walking around and putting instruments out in the field.

[2:33:16] So this helicopter will fly flight lines that are separated by about 100 meters, more

[2:33:23] or less getting a continuous stream of profiles where the Nancy type instrument would get one

[2:33:31] profile at each location. So in a course of a few weeks, hopefully we will be able to do the

[2:33:38] final. I want to ask about the initial 2.5 mil seems like it would be for the mapping with

[2:33:49] the helicopter and then the 0.5 mil for maintenance. How does that work like as water gets taken out,

[2:33:58] you use the 2.5 as the data collected with the 2.5 million shot as the baseline. And then you

[2:34:07] calculate how much is being pumped and the salinity levels. You only need to fly one time. How is

[2:34:14] the 0.5 million utilized for maintenance? Yes. The helicopter flight is a one-time thing

[2:34:22] You could, of course, fly subsequently for scientific interest or other reasons, but it's

[2:34:29] not necessary.

[2:34:30] The plan is that you fly at one time, it gives you the container structure, if you like,

[2:34:34] the reservoir structure.

[2:34:36] And then we monitor that reservoir structure by single-point instruments analogous to Tom

[2:34:44] on the anti-type measurement, but also through measurements in the wells.

[2:34:49] I'll elaborate this a little bit.

[2:34:51] The deep monitor well in Mejina, Heena is the only one that goes from surface to the

[2:34:55] sea.

[2:34:56] And it's designed for monitoring, it's not designed for production.

[2:34:59] Production wells cannot be instrumented.

[2:35:03] You can't make measurements in them because they tend to generally blocked, or measurements

[2:35:08] would interfere with the production and just doesn't work.

[2:35:10] work.

[2:35:11] If the USGS, because of its work in Red Hill, has come up with instruments that can take

[2:35:16] advantage of some types of production wells and basically do an NMR or a different kind

[2:35:24] of horizontal imaging by lowering the instrument down the borehole.

[2:35:28] So we're optimistic that with the helicopter data as the baseline, as you say, then in the

[2:35:34] in the future, we can start to take advantage of some of these more modern techniques for

[2:35:40] exploiting the wells themselves.

[2:35:44] Chair.

[2:35:46] We have Director Stufflebeen.

[2:35:49] I just want to add that this will not put Tom Nance out of business.

[2:35:54] I don't think so.

[2:35:57] What this will do, though, is I think in my opinion, would provide them additional information,

[2:36:02] information, very valuable information to help them do their job better.

[2:36:07] Okay.

[2:36:09] All right.

[2:36:09] Are you finished?

[2:36:10] And then I'll go ahead.

[2:36:12] So when you have the deep monitoring, well, the pumpage data and the information from this,

[2:36:19] how does that help you calculate what a daily sustainable yield is, or any given, well,

[2:36:26] Dr. Helen.

[2:36:29] So you get the three-dimensional structure that gives us a three-dimensional mesh, three-ferred

[2:36:35] two for the modeling.

[2:36:37] Then the recharge estimate comes from the kinds of studies that the USGS has already

[2:36:42] done conventionally.

[2:36:43] There was one published just two years and up two years ago an update.

[2:36:47] That provides what are called initial and boundary conditions for the surface conditions, so it

[2:36:53] as how the model, how nature behaves, and that is used to drive the model to set, to use

[2:37:02] the term drive of the model, a three-dimensional mesh, by recharge, and then we monitor the

[2:37:08] model predictions as we run it forward through time for prediction by what we see in the

[2:37:13] wells. So that's where the adaptive management part comes through here, because it's an

[2:37:23] We make a prediction, make measurements based on the well performance and then we adapt

[2:37:29] the modeling predictions based on the feedback from those measurements.

[2:37:34] Okay. The bell rang. I'll do a second around if you need them but I'd like to ask

[2:37:44] as well.

[2:37:47] Dr. Helle, the idea of the helicopter is fascinating to me and that it's already

[2:37:54] being done. Has anybody been looking at drones instead of helicopters? Is that an option

[2:38:00] on the table? Yeah, drones are an obvious desirability.

[2:38:05] The problem is that the instrument package weighs about 1,200 pounds, so you really need

[2:38:11] to helicopter to fly it.

[2:38:12] Similar kinds of instruments are flown on fixed wing aircraft, but

[2:38:16] they're really designed for much larger areas, like the Outback of Australia.

[2:38:23] Okay, I want to ask a little bit about the actual numbers you're saying.

[2:38:29] Correct me if I'm wrong.

[2:38:30] 500 meters is a typical well, is that?

[2:38:34] 500 meters is a maximum depth of penetration of the instrument.

[2:38:40] Okay, and how deep do our wells typically go the the product deep monitor well goes to about just under 1,300 feet. Oh

[2:38:51] Okay, so the Mejina deep water wells just under 1,300 feet you say all right and

[2:38:58] So this this should be able to the the apparatus the EEM, I think it's called right that should be able to find

[2:39:07] And water sources that are regular wells are tapping into, right?

[2:39:13] And all of the dikes, you say, the interconnectivity between the two is that-

[2:39:18] So as we monitor that-

[2:39:19] So when the instruments flying close to the ocean, close to sea level, you know, penetrate obviously, say, let's say, 500 meters down, so 1600 feet or so.

[2:39:32] know, when you actually more like 1800 feet, but the, as you move

[2:39:40] Malca, you're, that you're moving into a higher, greater

[2:39:46] elevation. So you're still only going to get that layer down to

[2:39:50] 500 meters, but we're hopeful that we can see the dike

[2:39:55] structure as we move Malca. One of the problems we have in, in

[2:40:01] And flying helicopters that the valleys that are greatest interest are very narrow and difficult to fly a helicopter in not just because the instrument hanging below it, but also because of the wind.

[2:40:14] So we don't know how much of that we're going to be able to sample, but the goal is to sample as much as we can because the important streams go up into those valleys.

[2:40:22] Yeah, very important.

[2:40:23] Well, okay, thank you for your time and thank you for your presentation.

[2:40:29] Let me see if there's a need for a second round.

[2:40:31] Otherwise, members, I think that takes us to the end.

[2:40:34] Any second round questions?

[2:40:36] Okay, seeing none.

[2:40:37] I want to thank you once again for your time and your presentation and thank Director Stuffel

[2:40:43] Bean for working with you because it's really interesting stuff and once again, members,

[2:40:48] we're softening you up for a budget ask.

[2:40:50] So, be ready for, you know, if that comes around and then you can always reach out to Dr. Hailey on your own time and if you have any more questions, thank you for all your hard work in your community and with this community.

[2:41:03] Members, if there's any objections, I'll defer this item.

[2:41:08] Okay, does that take us to the end of the agenda staff? That's at the end of the agenda. Members, it's 1201 and the adept committee is now adjourned.

Agriculture, Diversification, Environment, & Public Transportation Committee on 2025-12-04 9:00 AM

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