[0:00] everyone and welcome to the September 1st, 2026 Dair County Board of

[0:08] Commissioners meeting. At this time, I'd like to call the good Reverend Keith Dye

[0:14] for an invocation. Reverend Dy, thank you as always for being here.

[0:18] » Thank you. It is a pleasure. I invite you to join me in prayer.

[0:25] God, we give you thanks for this day, for its blessings as well as for its

[0:31] challenges. You are the source of all that is joyous

[0:35] and good. [snorts] And you are the provider of wisdom that

[0:39] will carry us through the challenging times.

[0:42] We thank you for the conscientious leadership of this board of

[0:45] commissioners and all who oversee the work done in this beautiful place.

[0:51] Watch over these your servants as they work together to be good stewards of the

[0:55] resources needed to keep things running smoothly

[1:01] and provide what is needed for all who live, work, and sojourn here. We are

[1:09] grateful for those who will be honored today for their service to Dare County.

[1:14] We are honored by the time given by those who lift up the needs of our

[1:18] schools, the benefits of our libraries, and the efforts of programs to help the

[1:23] most vulnerable. We are thankful for all who share their

[1:28] knowledge, for those who serve on county boards,

[1:32] and the many who put their safety on the line as they work to protect us.

[1:37] Now we pray that you will fill us with compassion, concern,

[1:43] caring, and creativity. May our work together this day and

[1:48] beyond be a reflection of your generosity, your mercy, and your love.

[1:54] Bless us, gracious God, to be a blessing.

[1:58] Amen. >> Amen.

[2:00] » Thank you, Reverend D. May we stand for the pledge.

[2:05] I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stands one

[2:13] nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

[2:24] » Okay, county manager.

[2:31] » Thank you, county manager. Um, happy to have with us this morning the

[2:37] chairman of the board of education, David Twitty. Thank you for being here

[2:40] this morning. As well as our favorite senator, Mr. Haneig, is also here with

[2:49] us this morning [clears throat] as always.

[2:53] » Oh, I'm sorry. uh Senator Elect and and now Senator Jerry Tilllet is in the

[3:02] room. Senator, thank you for being with us as well. Um

[3:08] I'd like to start with a little humor. These three brothers were talking about

[3:15] their mother, their 95 year old mother, and what they plan to get her for a

[3:21] birthday. And of course she's hard of hearing and can't see as well very very

[3:28] good. So the first brother John he told his brothers he said I'm I'mma buy

[3:33] mother a new house. Second brother George he said well I'm

[3:38] buying mother a new car. Well Steve said well

[3:45] you know uh since mother's hard of hearing and she can't see very well. He

[3:50] says, "Uh, I'm going to buy her a parrot that can recite every scripture in the

[3:56] Bible." So, they did and they all got together

[4:02] and the mother spoke to John. She said, "John,

[4:08] the house you bought me is extremely nice, but it's way too big."

[4:14] And she said, "George," she said, 'The car you bought me is also extremely

[4:19] nice, but it's way too fast. She said, "Steve, yours really was the

[4:26] best." She said, "The chicken was delicious."

[4:33] Now, some out there say, "Why does he do this? Why does he tell a joke? Why does

[4:41] he have a little bit of humor?" Well, the professionals say

[4:46] before a meeting,

[4:50] laughter lowers the level of stress in your blood stream. So, I'm helping my

[4:58] fellow commissioners out. Physical tensions fade when you chuckle

[5:03] or smile, so it relaxes their muscles.

[5:09] A brief mental break sharpens your attention to hard task so it proves

[5:15] their focus and a positive feeling replaces the nervous dread so it boosts

[5:23] your moods as well. So that's why I have a little humor before each and every

[5:29] board meeting. Have a few things to cover this morning. Most of you out

[5:34] there are very much aware of the fact that Dominion Energy is requesting a

[5:39] rate hike. The North Carolina Utilities Commission is going to hold a series of

[5:45] public hearings stating in late September. Uh they said this back in May

[5:52] when they filed a rate proposal with the North Carolina Utilities Commission.

[5:58] These meetings will begin at 700 pm and our meeting here in Dair County. It

[6:05] will be right here in this room on October the 13th. So, if you'd like to

[6:11] make public comment, please please show up because these this average um is

[6:19] seeking um about a 13 to 15.5% increase.

[6:26] In addition to that rate increase, earlier this month, Dominion Energy also

[6:34] has filed a request with the uh North Carolina Utilities Commission seeking

[6:40] approval to update the fuel cost for customers in northeast North Carolina.

[6:47] And the Out of Bank's voice reports that this could add some $23 uh dollars

[6:55] additional dollars um per month to your utility bill in

[7:01] addition to the potential 13 to 15.5% if they get this rate hike. This rate

[7:09] hike um is u is a substantial amount of money that they're looking for. Um uh

[7:17] they serve about 129,000 customers in northeast North Carolina from Rono

[7:23] Rapids, Aoski, uh Williamson, Elizabeth City, and the Outer Banks. So, um if you

[7:29] if you want to make public comment, October 13 in this room, 700 pm

[7:36] concerning those rate hikes. [clears throat]

[7:41] » Don't do it. >> Oh, sorry. [laughter]

[7:44] I'll hold my comments for later. >> All right.

[7:47] 10 days from today may strike your memory,

[7:54] uh the lives of lost at the World Trade Center some 25 years ago. On September

[8:01] 11th, 2020, 2001, countless lives were uh were changed forever. On this coming

[8:09] Friday, September 11th, we will remember every

[8:14] soul who ever who who never made it home. Um, every family left with an

[8:19] empty chair, every loved one who still carries the pain of that to that. Today,

[8:26] we will remember the innocent lives lost at the World Trade Center and all those

[8:31] who gave their lives trying to save others. Their names may be etched in

[8:36] stone, but they live on in the hearts of those who love them and in the memory of

[8:43] a nation. Some wounds never completely heal. Some losses can never be replaced,

[8:50] but as long as we remember, they will never truly be gone. So for every life,

[8:56] for every family, for every hero, we remember, we mourn, and we honor. and we

[9:02] will certainly never ever forget. And last but certainly not least, um

[9:11] I have the great privilege and and and sincere gratitude to to offer Dare

[9:21] County Board of Commissioners uh recognition of Senator Bob, Senator

[9:26] Bobby Haney for his dedicated service, his steadfast leadership, and his

[9:31] tireless efforts on behalf of the people of North Carolina's first Senate

[9:36] District. district representing Bertie, Camden, Curry, Tuck, Dair, Gates,

[9:41] Herdford, Northampton, Pasquank, Pquimmans, and Terrell counties.

[9:47] Now, Senator, Senator Haney, Bobby commitment to public service spans

[9:53] nearly a decade. He began his legislative career as the state

[9:58] representative of North Carolina House District 6, sering from serving from

[10:03] January 2019 through August 2022. He then continued his service in the

[10:10] North Carolina Senate as senator for district 1 from August 2022 through

[10:17] August 2026. And prior to his service in the General

[10:21] Assembly, Bobby served a two-year term as Curry Tuck County Commissioner from

[10:26] December 16th uh excuse me, December 2016 through December 2018.

[10:33] And throughout Bobby's service, he has demonstrated a deep understanding of the

[10:38] unique character, traditions, challenges, and opportunities that

[10:43] define our co coastal communities. He consistently worked to ensure that

[10:49] voices of North Eastern North Carolina are not only heard in Raleigh, but

[10:56] respected and represented in the decisions that affect our families,

[11:00] businesses, communities, and our way of life.

[11:05] From our fishermen and working waterfronts to our farmers, small

[11:09] businesses, families, and local communities, Senator Haneig has shown a

[11:14] willingness to stand up and fight for the people who make our region strong.

[11:20] His advocacy for the fishing industry and those who livelihoods depend on the

[11:25] waters of our coast reflect an appreciation for the heritage and

[11:30] traditions that have st that have sustained eastern North Carolina for

[11:35] generations. He has worked to protect the interest of

[11:38] our counties, to address the concerns of our citizens, and to preserve the

[11:43] freedoms, the opportunities, and the quality quality of life that make our

[11:49] communities so special. Whether the issue has involved our coastal economy,

[11:54] agriculture, infrastructure, public safety, local government, or the

[11:59] [clears throat] everyday concerns of working families. He has brought a

[12:03] strong and determined voice to the table. True public service is measured

[12:10] not simply by legislation or accomplishments, but [clears throat] by

[12:14] the willingness of the elected official to listen, to show up, to stand with his

[12:21] constituents, and to fight for the communities they represent. And Senator

[12:26] Haneig has surely done this time and time again and his

[12:33] service has reflected that commitment. Bobby, for your courage to advocate for

[12:39] Eastern North Carolina, your dedication to our communities, and your continued

[12:44] efforts on behalf of the people of Senate District 1. We extend our deepest

[12:50] appreciation, and I'd like for you to meet me up front for a presentation.

[12:57] » [applause]

[13:07] [applause]

[13:12] » Am I the employee of the month? [laughter]

[13:19] » Never let us down with that outfit you got on, brother.

[13:24] This is a ticket appreciation, Bobby, and grateful recognition of your uh

[13:29] dedicated service, steadfast leadership, and tireless advocacy on behalf of the

[13:33] people there in eastern North Carolina. Our Dair County Board of Commissioners

[13:38] salute you for your courage, your commitment, and your extraordinary

[13:43] service to the people of Eastern North Carolina. and I can't thank you enough

[13:48] for your friendship and always always always

[13:52] being there for us. Appreciate it. [applause]

[14:01] [applause]

[14:05] » Very brief. Okay. >> Very brief. Very brief.

[14:09] » Thank you. >> Just kidding. Um, you know, Bob Bob said

[14:13] some great words up here, but uh, nobody does it by themselves. It's been a great

[14:18] partnership with you guys. Um, always communicating with me. U,

[14:24] early mornings, late nights. Uh, we all do it together. Nobody does it alone.

[14:28] Uh, proud to serve y'all. And, uh, I'm stepping down, but I'm not stepping

[14:32] away. So, thank you.

[14:37] [applause]

[14:40] Thank you, Bobby. All right, county manager.

[14:45] Mr. Chairman, that brings us to item two on our agenda. This is service pins.

[14:49] We'll be recognizing our employees for years of service today. We have 75 years

[14:53] of service that we're recognizing. And we'll start with Gloria J, who will

[14:57] receive her tenure pin from Cliff Ryland.

[15:06] Good morning and welcome. >> Thank you, commissioners.

[15:13] » So, I have a think pages here. Not really. Um, today I have the privilege

[15:17] of recognizing Gloria Jay for her 10 years of dedicated service to Dair

[15:21] County um and to Dair County DHS specifically. Um 10 years is a

[15:26] tremendous milestone and when I think about Gloria and what she brings to our

[15:29] department the words immediately come to mind are reliable, dependable,

[15:33] professional and consistent and that's every day with her. Um I had the

[15:38] opportunity to work closely with Gloria and I think what stands out even more is

[15:42] just how she genuinely cares um about her job, about the organization and

[15:47] about the people around her. Um I can tell you personally that Gloria keeps me

[15:51] on point. There are a lot of moving pieces in public health. Um, and Gloria

[15:55] is usually reminding me like, "Hey, Cliff, we got this policy due." Or,

[15:59] "Hey, Cliff, you know, we have something that needs to come up on your radar."

[16:02] And she's always on point and always on time. And, uh, she never misses a

[16:07] deadline and she stay always stays ahead of them. Um, she takes ownership of our

[16:11] policy review, update processes. Um, and she works to maintain overall policy

[16:17] compliance throughout public health, due dates, follow-ups, anything that needs

[16:22] attention and she's making sure nothing falls through the cracks and I want to

[16:26] thank you for that. She takes that personal responsibility seriously and

[16:31] she understands that doing her job well contributes to the success of the entire

[16:35] department. Um, she serves as our primary point of

[16:38] contact for vital records in Dare County. Um she's handling all the birth

[16:43] certificates, deaths, home births processes, burial trans uh transmits. Um

[16:49] any unique situations that come along, she's on top of. Um it's a very detail-

[16:54] oriented work that she requires uh accuracy, confidentiality,

[16:58] professionalism, and trust, and she handles that exceptionally well.

[17:02] She also plays an important part in our safety in DHS. She coordinates um all of

[17:08] our safety inspections, making sure concerns are identified and addressed.

[17:13] One additional duty that she takes care of is our CPR classes for uh Dare County

[17:18] employees and members of our community. And through that work, Gloria is helping

[17:23] give people skills that literally help save people's lives.

[17:27] But I don't want today to be about just her responsibilities because um she

[17:32] brings a lot more to our team than that. something I personally um think that's

[17:37] um Gloria genuinely cares about people that she works with. Um she's

[17:41] continually checking up on everyone, asking how you're doing, how your

[17:45] family's doing, um your kids. Um and then when she asks you, you can tell

[17:49] that she genuinely cares and that's not a small thing. Um

[17:56] she's always sort of personally reminding me, you know, of the things I

[17:59] need to take care of at work and keeping me on point. Um, and that's Gloria. She

[18:03] cares about getting the job done right, but she also cares about the people

[18:07] around her. Um, also I want to mention any kudos or any recognition that our

[18:13] department gets, um, any administrative task, um, anything going well, a process

[18:19] improvement, Gloria has her hand in it somewhere. Um, when we're recognized

[18:23] because something was on time or compliant, um, something's running

[18:27] smoothly, it's usually because Gloria is helping

[18:31] with that process. And I know she will never seek the spotlight. Um, she isn't

[18:36] someone who needs attention or wants everyone to know everything she's done.

[18:39] Simply does the work, does it well, moves on to the next thing that needs to

[18:43] be accomplished. She's a quiet professional. Um, she doesn't seek

[18:48] recognition, but she definitely deserves it. A lot of what she does happens

[18:52] quietly behind the scenes. Uh sometimes there are people who make organizations

[18:56] successful aren't necessarily the people standing out front. They're people you

[18:59] can depend on every single day. The ones who remember the details, meet the

[19:03] deadline, solve the problems, and make everyone around them better at their

[19:06] jobs. Um I crunched some numbers here, Gloria, so you can know about how many

[19:10] days you've committed to Dare County. So I like to I like to crunch numbers, but

[19:14] um 10 years of service. So that like Monday through Friday, you know, for 10

[19:19] years, minus some holidays in there. And she rarely has ever taken a a sick day

[19:24] since I've been here. Um, but that's 2,545

[19:30] work days you've given to Dair County. And that's about 20,360 work hours. Um,

[19:36] so that's thousands of days and hours helping co-workers, serving the public,

[19:40] meeting deadlines, solving problems, keeping our facilities safer,

[19:44] maintaining compliance, teaching others, and making Dair County uh, DHHS a little

[19:48] bit better than the day before. Um, so today, on behalf of Dare County DHS, and

[19:53] personally me, I want to say thank you. Thank you for keeping us on track, for

[19:57] your professionalism and dependability, for all the work you do, and especially

[20:01] for all the work that people don't see. Thank you for caring about the work just

[20:05] as importantly for caring about the people that you work with. It's been a

[20:08] privilege for my time with you working alongside you and very proud of these 10

[20:13] years as we recog recognize you today. Um congratulations Gloria on 10 years of

[20:19] achievement excellence with Dair County. This recognition is definitely welld

[20:22] deserved. So thanks [applause]

[20:37] Next, if Monica Cref will come forward to receive her tenure pin from Debbie

[20:41] Dutton.

[20:50] » Welcome ladies. >> Good morning. Good morning chairman,

[20:53] commissioners, county manager. It is my truly my pleasure to be here this

[21:00] morning to present Monica with her 10-year service pin.

[21:04] Congratulations on achieving this 10-year milestone. We are extremely

[21:10] proud to recognize you as an exceptional with for your exceptional dedication and

[21:16] service to DHHS and to our community. Monica is our BEP nurse. That's our

[21:22] breast and cervical cancer control program and she is an expert in her

[21:28] program managing multiple funding sources for our patients from state

[21:33] funding, federal funding and grant funding with consistency,

[21:38] high standards and accuracy and responsibility.

[21:43] through your compassion and your dedication, you provide care to those

[21:48] who otherwise would not be able to uh they would find themselves in difficult

[21:53] situations um managing their health care and could compromise their positive

[21:59] health outcomes. So, your hard work, your willingness to help others shines

[22:04] through in everything that you do. Your commitment to our mission and the care

[22:10] that you provide the community make a true difference. We appreciate your

[22:14] professionalism, your reliability, and the passion that you bring to your role.

[22:20] If you don't know Monica, her happy place is the happiest place on earth.

[22:25] Right. And that is a wonderful touch of joy

[22:30] that shows through who you are and what you bring to the what you bring to your

[22:34] to your job and what you bring to DHHS. Dedication is not what others expect of

[22:40] you, it's what you give to others. So, thank you for your 10 years of

[22:45] outstanding service and we deeply appreciate all that you do and we look

[22:50] forward to at least I don't know 20 30 more. [laughter]

[22:55] Thank you. Thank you, Monica. [applause]

[23:10] » Next, if Pam Kaiser would come forward to receive her 20-year pimp, Daniel

[23:14] Stein.

[23:23] Welcome again, ladies. >> Good morning. Good morning.

[23:28] » So, I couldn't be happier um to be here this morning to present Pam with her

[23:32] 20-year service. Pin [cough] Pam,

[23:38] how did that laugh? All right. Pam's 20 years of service is an extraordinary

[23:42] testament to her dedication, commitment, and loyalty to the inhome aid program

[23:46] with the Dare County Department of Social Services. Pam is highly valued

[23:50] for the many contributions she has made with the care and well-being of the

[23:53] residents of Dare County. Her professionalism, clinical skill,

[23:57] clinical skills, compassion, and extensive knowledge of the inhome aid

[24:02] program has positively impacted countless clients and have helped

[24:06] strengthen our program in so many ways. Pam began her career with Dar County

[24:11] Social Services as an in-home aid in 2006. In 2018, she was promoted to

[24:17] community health technician or we otherwise call elite aid. In this role,

[24:22] she took on the important responsibility of ensuring client services were covered

[24:25] when other aids called out or were on leave. She also became a part of

[24:30] training and orienting new employees. In 2023, Pam was promoted to senior

[24:35] community health technician, which is what we call our senior lead aid. With

[24:39] this promotion came expanded responsibilities, including assigning

[24:43] daily schedules and coordinating coverage for our clients, assisting with

[24:47] staff trainings and meetings and managing schedule changes. Anyone who

[24:51] works with Pam knows that she excels at the challenge of finding coverage at a

[24:55] moment's notice and has saved my hide several times. Somehow she always seems

[25:01] to make it work. Other responsibilities in this role include coordination with

[25:05] the Der County garage regarding regarding maintenance and repairs of our

[25:08] fleet vehicles. Again, this is something I could not do without her. This may not

[25:13] be the most glamorous part of the job, but it's another example of the many

[25:17] behindthe-scenes responsibilities Pam Handles to help keep our program running

[25:21] smoothly. As a licensed CNA, Pam provides hand-on care to clients,

[25:26] including assistance with bathing, dressing, grooming, mobility, transfers,

[25:30] and home management tasks. This work is not easy. It requires physical strength

[25:36] and endurance along with the ability to stand for long periods of time, bend,

[25:41] lift, assist clients with transfers and personal care. But the physical demands

[25:46] are only part of what makes this job challenging. Over the years, inh

[25:51] homemade develop a close relationship with the clients they serve.

[25:55] They celebrate the good days, provide encouragement through the difficult

[25:59] ones, and sometimes witness a client's physical physical decline while

[26:04] continuing to offer steady support to the client and their family. This takes

[26:07] an incredible amount of emotional strength and resilience.

[26:12] Pans de demonstrates unwavering patience and genuine empathy,

[26:17] especially when she's faced with diff difficult obstacles or challenging daily

[26:21] routines. Her observant nature and clinical experience has allowed her to

[26:25] recognize subtle changes in a client's condition and report those concerns

[26:30] before they develop into more serious problems. That level of attentive

[26:34] attentiveness can make an immeasurable difference in someone's life. Outside of

[26:39] her work, Pam is a supportive wife and a loving mother. She also has two

[26:43] four-legged kiddo kiddos, Gizmo and Blondie, along with her grandpup Lucy.

[26:48] Pam is talented, very talented creator of custom quilts and spent many years of

[26:52] doing crossstitch. She often shares her creativity by making thoughtful handmade

[26:56] gifts for her co-workers. Her thoughtfulness and creativity are

[27:01] just two of the many qualities that make Pam such a special person.

[27:05] Professionally, Pam's years of experience and institutional knowledge

[27:08] have made her an invaluable invaluable resource to our team. She has played an

[27:14] important role in orienting and supporting new staff, helping ensure

[27:17] that new employees have knowledge, the skills, and foundation they need to be

[27:21] successful. Pam is truly a team player. She's always willing to help in whatever

[27:26] way she can. When she's given a task, I know it will be completed and completed

[27:31] to the highest degree. She is often proactive in identifying and addressing

[27:35] issues before they even become problems. As her supervisor, I often think of Pam

[27:40] as our own version of MacGyver. Somehow she can always rig about anything to

[27:44] meet to meet the need at hand. If there is a problem to solve, Pam will usually

[27:49] figure it out. Her depend dependability, initiative, and willingness to step up

[27:54] are qualities that I greatly appreciate. I hope Pam realizes what an incredible

[27:58] asset she is, not only to me, but to all the ladies in the team and most and most

[28:04] importantly to the clients we serve. Pam's compassion and ability to connect

[28:08] with others are not qualities that can simply be taught. Her heartfelt

[28:11] compassion goes far beyond the duties listed on the job description. She shows

[28:16] genuine care for not only her clients but for also her co-workers. She has a

[28:20] way of making pe people feel supported and valued and cared for. And that is a

[28:25] gift that has made a lasting difference through her 20 years of service.

[28:30] Pam, >> dedicated and loyal employees are

[28:33] difficult to find and we are incredibly fortunate to have you. I want to take

[28:38] this time and opportunity to personally thank you for your dedication to the

[28:42] program. You have touched so many lives of so many people in our community and

[28:47] you've made a difference in my life as well. You have helped shape the program

[28:51] we have today. You are part of the foundation and cornerstone for the

[28:54] success of the INH home aid program. Your 20 years of service represent far

[28:58] more than just a number. They represent 20 years of caring for others,

[29:02] supporting your co-workers, serving your community, solving problems, stepping

[29:07] up, and making a difference in the lives of countless people. Pam,

[29:12] congratulations on your 20 years of dedicated service.

[29:16] [applause]

[29:20] » [applause]

[29:28] [clears throat] >> Next, if Debbie Dutton would come

[29:31] forward to receive her 35-year pin from Sheila Davies.

[29:42] » Wow. Welcome. >> 35.

[29:48] Yeah, it's pretty remarkable um to be celebrating 35, but if you think about

[29:53] we just recognized Gloria, Monica, Pam, and now Debbie, 75 years of service is a

[29:59] remarkable feat, but that's 75 years of service within one department in Dare

[30:03] County. So, pretty pretty extraordinary. Um it's truly an honor to once again

[30:08] stand before you uh this morning to recognize an extraordinary individual

[30:12] and public servant, Debbie Dutton. for her 35 years of service to Dare County.

[30:19] Five years ago, I had the privilege of standing here and presenting Debbie with

[30:22] her 30-year pen. And I remember reflecting then on the remarkable career

[30:27] she had built, the countless people she had touched, and the tremendous impact

[30:31] she's made in public health and in our community. At the end of my remarks that

[30:36] day, I also remember pretty clearly saying that I hoped Debbie would stay

[30:40] with us for at least another three to five years. And that every day she

[30:45] stayed with us, I considered a gift. Well, Debbie, thank you. We got another

[30:49] five years. And what a gift those five years have been. Today, rather than

[30:54] simply looking back at a list of accomplishment, I think Debbie's 35-year

[30:58] milestone gives us an opportunity to reflect on something even more

[31:02] meaningful. the difference one person can make when they dedicate a career to

[31:07] serving others. 35 years is more than a measure of time. It represents thousands

[31:13] of days of showing up for co-workers, students, family, this community. It

[31:18] represents relationships built, people mentored, programs created, challenges

[31:24] overcome, and an organization that has grown and changed tremendously.

[31:29] all [snorts] the way Debbie has been shaping that growth with her work. She

[31:34] began her career with Der County in 1991. Think about where you were in

[31:38] 1991, 35 years ago. Some people probably in this room may not have been born

[31:43] then. Um she started her career as a public health nurse, initially working

[31:48] as a school nurse and family planning coordinator. She went on to become a

[31:52] full-time school nurse, then the school nurse supervisor, and ultimately the

[31:56] nursing director for our community and clinical services division. When I asked

[32:01] Debbie to reflect on what has changed during her 35 years of service, one word

[32:06] came to mind, growth. Debbie started her career in a little red brick health

[32:11] department building. Some of you may remember that building um at the corner

[32:15] of an anized stair street in highway 26464.

[32:19] She watched our clinical services expand from Mano to Fris to Frisco and to Knack

[32:24] Head. When Debbie began as a school nurse, she was only the third school

[32:28] nurse in Dare County, helping cover all the schools from Mano to Hatteris and

[32:32] the northern beaches. Today, we have a school nurse in every Dare County

[32:37] school. She remembers when community and clinical services consisted of only 11

[32:42] staff members. Today, she leads a team of approximately 43 staff members. And

[32:48] what was once just four programs, maternal health, family planning, child

[32:52] health, and communicable disease, has now grown into 16 agreement addendums or

[32:57] state contracts with numerous programs and services designed to meet the

[33:02] changing needs of our community. Debly ha Debbie hasn't simply witnessed that

[33:07] grow growth. She's helped lead that growth. She was part of the leadership

[33:11] and develop programs such as Peer Power and Miles of Smiles. She helped extan

[33:16] expand prenatal services so more women could receive care. I remember gosh 12

[33:22] years ago we were doing prenatal care two days a week. Now we're doing it five

[33:26] days a week in three locations. She helped build our school nursing and

[33:31] health program into what it is today which now includes behavioral health and

[33:35] as of this school year teleaalth. And throughout 35 years of tremendous change

[33:40] in public health, Debbie has remained a steady and trusted leader. I also de

[33:46] asked Debbie what she's most proud of beyond, of course, being an incredible

[33:51] wife, mom, and grandmother. I had to throw that in. Um, of course, she

[33:55] mentioned being named Dare County Employee of the Year in 2000. That

[33:59] remains a special accomplishment. She also spoke about her own professional

[34:03] journey starting from school nurse growing into the nurse supervisor and

[34:08] director that she is today. But what she mentioned first tells you a lot about

[34:13] Debbie. She talked about the students she cared for as a school nurse. She

[34:18] said one of the things she's most proud of is having watched those students grow

[34:21] into respectful professional adults, many of whom now work for Dare County or

[34:27] work in our schools or own businesses in the community and are now raising their

[34:31] own children. To me, that perfectly captures what 35 years of public service

[34:36] really means. It isn't simply the number of years you've worked or the positions

[34:41] you've held. It's the generations of people whose lives you have touched

[34:45] along the way. And after 35 years, there are also certainly some great stories.

[34:51] Debbie remembers an elementary school student who was sent to her office to

[34:55] have a little hygiene discussion. After some investigation, Debbie discovered

[35:00] that while walking to this the bus stop in Wanchese, the child had found a dead

[35:05] fish on the side of the road and put it in her pocket of her overalls. As Debbie

[35:11] says, like any good little one cheese girl, I'm sure she had been taught that

[35:15] when you find a fish, you take care of it. Then there was the middle school

[35:19] student interviewing Debbie for a PTA newsletter who asked what the school's

[35:24] nur the school nurse's office needed. And when Debbie asked the question back

[35:29] to the student, the students recommendation was bunk beds.

[35:33] And even during COVID, there was a mo there were moments of joy, including a

[35:37] dance party at one of our larger vaccination clinics, complete with music

[35:42] provided by our volunteers. Those stories also say something

[35:46] important about Debbie. Through the difficult days, the long days, and even

[35:50] some truly extraordinary days, she never lost her ability to laugh, connect with

[35:55] people, or find joy in her work. Five years ago, I described Debbie as kind,

[36:00] compassionate, genuine, respected, knowledgeable, and the epitome of a

[36:05] servant, a public health servant. Five years later, I wouldn't change a word.

[36:11] What I would add is that we now have five more years of evidence, five more

[36:15] years of leadership, five more years of mentoring employees, five more years of

[36:19] caring for our community, five more years of quietly doing whatever needed

[36:24] to be done. Not because someone was watching, but because that is simply who

[36:28] Debbie is. On a personal note, I said five years ago that I cherish Debbie as

[36:33] a person, and I am beyond grateful for all that she's done for Dair County and

[36:38] for public health. And that's even more true today. 35 years is an extraordinary

[36:44] legacy of service. You have helped shape the public health in Dair County. You've

[36:48] cared for generations of families, helped build programs that will continue

[36:53] long after all of us are gone, developed employees and future leaders, and made

[36:58] our organization and our community better because you're a part of it. Five

[37:02] years ago, I had said that every additional day working with us is a

[37:06] gift. Thanks for giving us 1,824 more days. And I'm certainly not putting

[37:12] an expiration date on that statement, but I won't hold you to more. on behalf

[37:17] of Dare County Health and Human Services, your colleagues, the countless

[37:20] individuals and families you've served, and personally for me, thank you for

[37:24] your 35 years of service. And I will one last thing. I was thinking about this

[37:29] this morning. So Debbie remarkably wears I'm not going to pull your neck over

[37:34] proud proudly. She is so proud all of her service year pens. I do worry about

[37:39] her neck at some point with adding this this additional pen, but congratulations

[37:43] and thank you. >> [applause]

[37:50] [applause]

[37:59] [applause]

[38:05] » Oh gosh, I don't know if I can say anything now.

[38:10] First and foremost, [clears throat] I just want to thank everyone that has

[38:14] supported me along my journey. What a special what a special career

[38:20] that I I just I will treasure forever. 35 years ago, a special thanks to Harry

[38:28] Johnson and Louise Gray, those might be names that you recognize, for taking a

[38:32] chance on me, for all of those that have supported me along the way. And finally,

[38:38] Jay Berth and Sheila Davies for having the trust in me to put me in the

[38:43] position that I currently hold. I have been so blessed and God is so good. As

[38:50] Sheila mentioned, we have seen a tremendous amount of change from where

[38:54] we've been to where we are today has been a whirlwind.

[38:59] The support of our community is unmatched. And thank you to the

[39:03] commissioners over the years, our leadership in DHS over the years in

[39:08] public health has gotten us to where we are today. The stories are endless. The

[39:14] memories will last a lifetime. I have a picture in my office that says something

[39:19] that you might have seen somewhere, but it says, "Love what you do and you'll

[39:24] never work a day in your life." That is so true. And I have been so blessed. So,

[39:29] from the bottom of my heart, thank you. [applause]

[39:42] Next, if Sheriff Doug Dowy would come forward to present the employee of the

[39:46] month.

[39:55] » Good morning, everyone. >> Morning, Sheriff.

[39:59] this isn't a surprise to him because I've never been able to surprise him in

[40:03] my life, I don't think. Um, but I will start out right from the first saying

[40:07] that um I have nothing to do with this. This was done from somebody on the

[40:11] outside that uh knows this young man very well because of where what he does

[40:16] while he's here. So, I'll go ahead and call him up. Brent Daddy, come on up.

[40:22] [applause]

[40:33] Good morning. >> Brent has been recognized by one of the

[40:40] individuals that he spends more time with than anybody. rent works uh in our

[40:44] civil process which anybody in here that comes to court or is around would know

[40:48] that they see him either at the metal detector or in the courtroom or walking

[40:53] the halls in the in this building because he does the security over here.

[40:57] So, he's an all-around guy and and it's and everybody knows him. I don't care

[41:01] where I go, somebody knows who he is or where he's been or what he is or what he

[41:05] does. And he called me this morning. He says, "Anyway I can get out of this," he

[41:09] already knew what he did. The phone call came to my office and he's not in my

[41:13] office very much, but um the young lady said, "I can't tell you what I need to

[41:17] tell you while he's in there." I'm like, "So, what I'm gonna do, run him out and

[41:20] he's going to either think he's in real trouble or is something's going to be

[41:23] really good." Well, um you know, then he started looking and he figured out, hey,

[41:27] well, I talk to somebody because he knew who to talk to and figured out it was

[41:31] but didn't let me know that he knew who he was that it was going to be him until

[41:35] this morning. But he said, "I'd really rather not do this." And I understand

[41:38] that completely. He's never been one that wanted any accolades or tried to um

[41:43] put himself up in front of anybody. He uh he's definitely a public servant.

[41:47] Loves what he does. Been doing this for 14 years. Um and I'm going to read what

[41:52] the young man that uh that nominated him for this position said. He said, "I am

[41:56] nominating Brent Daddy for employee of the month. And I want to explain why

[42:00] length of service is not a reason to take someone's contribution for granted.

[42:04] It is a reason to recognize it more specifically. Brent has been with the

[42:08] Dair County Sheriff's Office since 2012. What he contributed this month was not

[42:12] different from what he contributes each month. Brent is plugged into the

[42:16] community like no other officer I have ever worked with. He not only has his

[42:20] cell phone number ready for anyone that may need his help, but he also answers

[42:26] the call. But the fact that he has delivered that quality of service for 14

[42:30] years running with no diminishment and no ceremony represents exactly the kind

[42:35] of sustained commitment that law enforcement agencies thrive on.

[42:39] You know, that says an awful lot. It's hard for me, you know, because he is my

[42:44] son to, you know, ever really acknowledge anything that he does

[42:47] special because no matter what that would be, somebody would go say, you

[42:51] know, your daddy is the sheriff. I've never heard him, you know. Now, he'll

[42:55] tell you real quick, his daddy is the sheriff, that's for sure. But he I've

[42:59] never ever seen him use that anywhere. I'm very fortunate to have two sons that

[43:03] work with me and um my youngest son in law school and he promises he's going to

[43:08] the right side, not the dark side. So, hopefully he'll be in the uh he'll be in

[43:14] that office one day and uh we'll enjoy what he does. When Brent was about three

[43:19] and a half years old and I worked in a hosky, I used to take him to Hardies in

[43:23] the morning to meet his grandmom and granddad. Uh,

[43:27] and he commanded a presence even at three and a half years old in Hardies.

[43:33] Walked every table, knew everybody in there, spoke to everybody, stole food

[43:36] off their off of what they were eating. And I know his grandmama and grand like,

[43:40] "Oh my goodness, it's no telling what he's going to be like when he grows up."

[43:46] Um he was in a Jeep uh and I we lived right beside Paul Terry. Paul Terry

[43:50] lived in front of us and uh he was on the road driving this little Jeep, but

[43:54] he had Thank goodness it didn't run very fast because he'd have probably not been

[43:57] here today cuz he's kind of wide open. But um Paul Terry stopped him and they

[44:02] said, "I'd like to see your drive." He had a lollipop in his mouth and both his

[44:06] hands looked up at him. He said, "I ain't got no driver's license." He

[44:11] laughed. I laughed. But that's probably not the first time he's been stopped.

[44:14] hopefully. And uh it may not be the last. That's exactly right. By Paul

[44:19] Terry. Yes. But we I he a wealth of knowledge. He works with some people

[44:24] that are very very smart. Um in the clerk's office. He's he's a part of the

[44:30] drug court and u you know and and has a heart for them. He wants to make sure

[44:35] that you know things go the right way and what happens is the right outcome.

[44:39] He'll stick his nose in business that sometimes I wish he never did, but you

[44:43] know, it's the right place to be because he thinks it's the right thing to do.

[44:47] With a friend like that, I don't believe you can go wrong. I And a law

[44:50] enforcement officer, you can't find anything better than that. That's for

[44:53] sure. Um, I will tell you that if you call him, he's coming,

[44:59] you know, and get out of the way because he'll be there for you and he's going to

[45:02] do the job that he needs to do when he gets there. Um, and as a friend, you

[45:06] can't find a better one. You can call him, he'll come. It doesn't make any

[45:09] difference. Call him three o'clock in the morning, five o'clock in the

[45:12] morning, he'll be there. Now, my second son will tell you if you call him, I'm

[45:16] coming, but I might not be there in the next 10 minutes. Might take me two or

[45:19] three hours to get there. And my third one to tell you, don't call me. You

[45:22] might want to call somebody else cuz I ain't no way in the world I can help

[45:25] you. I don't know what it'll be. So, in that respect, he's he's the top dog in

[45:30] that in that position. I'm honored to be able to stand here and say those things

[45:33] about him. And I thank you. I think that there's somebody else that, you know,

[45:36] feels the same way about him. A lot of people, one of the ladies back there

[45:39] said, "What are you doing here this morning?" I said, "We got a lot going

[45:41] on." I said, "But Bren is getting employed. Oh my god, I want to stay here

[45:44] long enough to see that happen." So anyway, somebody else knows you, too.

[45:48] But it's an honor for me to be able to give that to you. I'm proud of you. I

[45:51] love you and you take care of yourself. [applause]

[45:56] And here, you got to give that back.

[46:02] And there's your plaque. All right.

[46:09] Thank you. Take that.

[46:16] » Yes, sir. >> Bobby. Bobby, before you dismiss

[46:21] everybody, there's a saying behind

[46:25] every good man is a good woman. Well, I'm gonna reverse that this morning

[46:30] because I'm gonna tell Debbie, behind a good woman's a good man. And

[46:35] that's Max Dutton, former board of commissioners, Dair County.

[46:40] Max, stand up. We want to recognize Max. [applause]

[46:48] I had the honor of serving with Max for a couple of years on this board. What a

[46:53] principal gentleman he is. And I can't thank you enough, Max, for your service,

[46:57] too. Bobby, >> before we go to public comment, will

[47:02] those of you that received a recognition this morning please go out through this

[47:05] door and get a picture? And I'll wait just a second for the room to clear

[48:26] Ladies [clears throat] and gentlemen, now's the time that's been set aside for

[48:28] public comment. If you have public comment and you've signed up, I'll call

[48:32] on you at the end of calling the list. If you aren't on there, I'll ask if

[48:35] anyone else hasn't. If so, raise your hand. Uh, when you come to the podium,

[48:39] please state your name and where you're from. Please limit your comments to five

[48:42] minutes. There's a green light on the podium that will come on when your time

[48:46] begins. There's a yellow light on the podium that will come on uh when you

[48:50] have about a minute left. And when the red light comes on, you need to conclude

[48:53] your remarks. Uh if you're here to speak to uh item 11, which is the public

[48:59] hearing on a combined capital grant application, please wait until that

[49:04] agenda item to speak to that issue. Um with that said, the first person on the

[49:08] list is Lee Goldman.

[49:15] » Welcome this morning, Lee. >> Good morning. Like to welcome the

[49:19] commissioners and thank you for taking the time out to hear me this morning.

[49:23] Last year, I showed up talking about the same thing. I don't

[49:29] like the word anniversary on certain events. Anniversaries are great for 250

[49:33] years of the country, wedding anniversaries, and other things, years

[49:37] of service. This year marks the 25th remembrance of

[49:42] the events of 911. I wear this uniform today after giving

[49:47] it some thought of what I should wear here today.

[49:50] I wore this uniform to countless funerals to people that I knew, to

[49:54] people I didn't know, from the events from New York, but also there were other

[50:00] people that wore this type of uniform in the Pentagon and over in Shanksville to

[50:06] remember those people. Also, this year is the fifth anniversary, I'm

[50:10] sorry, I used the word I hate, the fifth year of doing the 911 walk, the walk to

[50:16] remember in Dair County. We started with 30 people. Last year we had 340.

[50:24] I would love to see 500 people.

[50:31] I'm trying to think where to go with this. [snorts]

[50:34] I don't like to write things down. I like to speak from the heart. I've

[50:38] watched this grow year after year and I would like to see it continue to grow.

[50:44] I don't want to see people forget, but we seem to have done that in this

[50:50] country. I don't want to see our youth forget the

[50:54] events. I don't want to see the people that are here forget those events or

[50:59] people to tell other people that those events never really happened. I am here

[51:04] to invite the county, the people of Deer County, the visitors, other counties,

[51:13] school children, everybody to attend this year's walk.

[51:18] There'll be refreshments that are donated by several different

[51:24] stores, whether it be Stack High, New York Bagels, Duck Donuts, Front Porch

[51:30] Coffee, Target,

[51:33] um, Food Line, and several others that'll be supplying free food to

[51:38] everybody. This year, we're opening up signing in at 7:00.

[51:44] uh because last year we did a little later and I didn't realize how many

[51:48] people were going to show up. So taking that into account um we're going to

[51:53] start at seven. There is also a separate section for Dare County employees to

[51:57] sign up so you can get your wellness point.

[52:01] And if anybody hasn't had a chance to listen to uh Betsy Robinson sing the

[52:06] national anthem, that in itself is a reason to come to hear it. There are

[52:10] other things that I do have in the works I can't control, but I'm hoping they

[52:15] fall into place. One being the weather. I do recommend people dress

[52:21] appropriately and hydrate before, during, and after

[52:26] the event. If you feel you cannot complete the walk, that is fine. We will

[52:31] have transportation to bring you back. It's not a competition. It is the day of

[52:35] nothing more than to remember.

[52:40] That's all I really have on this matter. Does anybody have any questions,

[52:46] thoughts, comments? I still got a minute and a half.

[52:50] [clears throat] >> No, but thank you, Lee, for your

[52:54] spearheading this year after year. It's uh commendable and can't thank you

[52:58] enough for doing that. >> Thank you. I would like to point out

[53:01] that >> start time of the walk because it's a

[53:04] different time. It's not like nine on the dot. No, the start time and the

[53:08] reason we started everything at 7 is the start time is 8:46. 8:46 is significant

[53:13] because it was the time the first plane struck the World Trade Center and the

[53:18] events of that day unfolded. Um,

[53:23] we're looking at about 8:30 for the national anthem followed by a prayer by

[53:29] Cherry Wheeler, then lining up and then starting the walk. Uh I will like to

[53:36] just point out another event that will be happening in October which will be

[53:39] October 10th. It coincides with this. It is the tunnels to tower run

[53:46] and you can find that also either on the flyers that I have or you can Google

[53:52] that and it'll be showing up here. This will be I believe the third year for

[53:55] that event that starts in Kill Devil Hills. I do have flyers for the events

[54:01] if people would like that. And there's a QR code. You can uh check out the

[54:05] website, see where we started and where we ended. I'm hoping that the photo that

[54:09] we take at the top of the monument again is too big for the lens. Uh last year it

[54:15] was nice to see that. And five, four, three, two, one. Thank you for your

[54:20] time. >> Thank you. [applause]

[54:26] » Next is Nicole Hassel Wayne.

[54:35] Welcome this morning. >> Good morning, Mr. Chairman,

[54:37] commissioners. Thank you for allowing me this

[54:40] opportunity to speak before this board today.

[54:44] I have been a resident of this county for more than 20 years. I am and always

[54:48] will be the incredibly proud mother of Zane Thomas Hughes, who was murdered

[54:52] last year here in Dair County. and I'm also the mother of three other

[54:56] phenomenal children. This morning, I am asking this board to please listen

[55:01] carefully to what the facts reveal because serious questions about

[55:05] accountability

[55:08] and crime victim's rights violations by the Der County District Attorney's

[55:12] Office can no longer be ignored. This is the second time I have stood before this

[55:16] board to raise concerns about the treatment of my family as crime victims.

[55:22] I am back because those concerns have not been resolved. The rights guaranteed

[55:27] to us under North Carolina law continue to be violated. A few of the most

[55:32] disturbing things I have learned along this journey

[55:35] is my family is not the only family that has been forced to fight for rights that

[55:40] the law already guarantees. I have spoken with and learned of other crime

[55:44] victims whose rights have been repeatedly infringed upon or ignored

[55:48] altogether. At some point, repeated failures stop

[55:53] looking accidental. They begin to look systemic, and that is something that

[55:57] this board should take very seriously. I want to begin with discussing the

[56:04] conduct of the Dair County District Attorney's Office. Much of my concerns

[56:10] stems from the way my family's rights have been interpret interpreted,

[56:14] communicated, and enforced. During the most recent session of Superior Court,

[56:18] the Honorable Judge WBLE said, and I quote, um, I will tell you unequivocally

[56:23] as the mother of a deceased victim, you have the best prosecutor prosecuting

[56:27] that case that I know of, and that is Mr. Jeff Crudin. I greatly respect Judge

[56:31] Wamble, but I strongly disagree with that assertion, and I do not expect this

[56:35] board to simply take my word for it. The district attorney of Dair County

[56:41] abuses his position, not simply through isolated mistakes, but through a pattern

[56:45] of conduct that I believe has gone unchecked for far too long. In June of

[56:49] this year, District Attorney Jeff Cruden made false statements that his office

[56:54] had not yet received my son's autopsy from the office of the chief medical

[56:58] examiner and requested a continuence on that basis. Then, approximately 2 and a

[57:03] half hours after I spoke publicly at this meeting on August 3rd, I received

[57:08] an email from his office stating that the autopsy had finally been received

[57:11] with the copy attached. For months, I possessed

[57:16] for for months I possessed my own copy from the OCME of my son's autopsy,

[57:22] and I did not release it. As of yesterday, I now have something more

[57:27] significant than recordings or just copies. Written confirmation directly

[57:32] from the North Carolina Office of the Chief Medical Examiner. According to the

[57:36] OCME, its request log shows that Mr. Mr. Crudin personally submitted a request

[57:40] for records in Zayn's case through its document portal. They further confirmed

[57:45] that all reports requested by Mr. by Mr. Crudin were released to him by email on

[57:50] September 19th of 2025. That was approximately nine months

[57:55] before Mr. Crudin stood in superior court and represented that his office

[57:59] had not yet received Zayn's autopsy.

[58:04] I want to be now I want to be precise. OCM's email states that all reports Mr.

[58:09] Crudin requested were released to him on September 19th. The email itself does

[58:14] not identify each individual report by name. But what it does establish is that

[58:18] Mr. Crudin requested records in Zayn's case and that every report he requested

[58:23] was provided to him by the OCME in September of 2025. That fact, combined

[58:28] with the representations later made in court, raises an obvious and serious

[58:32] question that deserves an answer. Over the course of the last year, Mr. Crudin

[58:37] has created a false narrative not only about me, but my son,

[58:44] one and one of which my conduct supposedly threatens or interferes or

[58:50] causes harm to the prosecution of the people charged with murdering my son.

[58:55] It has been used as justification for limiting my communication with his

[58:59] office and refusing to enforce rights I have repeatedly attempted to assert

[59:03] under the Crime Victim's Rights Act. I do not need to stand at this podium

[59:08] and call anyone a liar. The records can speak for themselves. Last Thursday, Mr.

[59:13] Crudin put much of that narrative in writing. I received an email from him

[59:18] that I can make available to this court in its entirety if you would like. A few

[59:22] of the things included in the email were my requests

[59:28] for information for an unrelated case that would hinder the prosecution of

[59:32] those charged with my son's murder. He also stated that an individual's rights

[59:37] can be forfeit I have to be quiet now.

[59:42] » Go ahead, ma'am. >> have to be forfeited or diminished when

[59:46] their actions are supposedly detrimental to the administration of justice. And

[59:50] finally, he informed me that there will be very little contact, if any, between

[59:54] his office and me until Zayn's case goes to trial in March of 2027.

[59:59] He then wrote, "There will be no more release of privileged information to the

[1:00:02] media like you did with your son's juvenile case file, if I have any

[1:00:05] control over it." That statement is important because it is another example

[1:00:09] of the problem I am describing. I did not res release Zayn's juvenile case

[1:00:14] file. Before Zayn died, I possessed a copy of the state's discovery of

[1:00:18] evidence evidence against him. Zayn was a minor when he was charged and I was

[1:00:23] provided this by the attorney I paid to ret to represent him. That discovery is

[1:00:29] where the limited material I later used came from. The actual juvenile records

[1:00:33] are entirely different. I have not released any of those records. So when

[1:00:38] Mr. Cudin states as fact that I released my son's juvenile case file. That's

[1:00:43] simply not what occurred. The state's discovery provided to me by

[1:00:48] Zayn's attorney before his death and juvenile records

[1:00:51] from the clerk's office are not the same thing. And that distinction matters

[1:00:55] because this allegation has become part of much of the larger narrative. One

[1:00:59] that is not been you not only one that has been used not only to justify the

[1:01:05] way I have been treated as a crime victim, but to suggest that Mr. Mr.

[1:01:08] Crudin somehow has the authority to diminish, suspend, or affect me

[1:01:12] effectively strip me of that status. I have spent the last year listening to

[1:01:17] and learning interpretations of the North Carolina Crime Victim's Rights

[1:01:20] Act, Article 46. The law defines who qualifies as a victim. It identifies the

[1:01:26] rights afforded to those victims and it places affirmative obligations upon

[1:01:31] prosecutors in the courts. Those rights do not disappear because exercising them

[1:01:35] while a prosecutor disagrees with the victim or because someone decides that

[1:01:39] only one family member of a homicide victim should matter. The

[1:01:44] very first right listed in the North Carolina victim crime victim's right act

[1:01:48] is to be treated with dignity and respect. Me and my family have not been

[1:01:52] treated with dignity and respect. At Mr. Crudin's request, Zayn's

[1:01:57] biological father was designated as the primary point of contact for the family.

[1:02:02] Yet that phrase does not appear anywhere in article 46. The statute identifies

[1:02:07] victims, family members, and individuals entitled to assert a deceased per

[1:02:11] victim's rights. It does not create a separate legal category called point of

[1:02:15] contact, quote unquote, that replaces the rights of other qualifying family

[1:02:19] members. More importantly, this designation has not worked in practice.

[1:02:24] Zayn's biological father has not been actively involved in his life since he

[1:02:28] was four years old. He now lives in Missouri and I do not have a reliable

[1:02:32] way of contacting him directly. Since he was designated as the family's point of

[1:02:37] contact, my family has not received notifications from him regarding

[1:02:40] hearings, releases, court dates, or other developments in Zayn's case. So,

[1:02:44] the question becomes, what purpose does a point of contact serve if the people

[1:02:49] who are actually entitled to the information are not receiving or

[1:02:52] receiving it? A procedural label should never become a substitute for complying

[1:02:57] with the law. and an administrative phrase that does not exist in the

[1:03:01] statute should not be transformed into a mechanism for limiting rights that the

[1:03:05] statute expressly provides. The last thing that I would like to bring to this

[1:03:09] board's attention is the way juvenile justice is being administered here in

[1:03:12] Dair County. I believe it needs a serious examination and needs a complete

[1:03:16] overhaul a complete overall hall in a way it responds to juveniles who present

[1:03:22] a repeated danger to themselves other children in this community. This past

[1:03:26] May, my 15-year-old son was threatened by another juvenile to with a gun was

[1:03:32] threatened to be shot by another juvenile because the boys were

[1:03:36] interested in the same girl. The other juvenile sent my son of a picture of

[1:03:40] himself holding what appeared to be an AR-15.

[1:03:45] » Nicole, we're way past time, but try to try to up.

[1:03:50] » I'm almost done, Sarah. Go fast. Um, my son reported it to the school resource

[1:03:55] officer and other juveniles were charged with communicating threats. To my

[1:03:58] knowledge, no search of that juvenile's residence was ever conducted and the

[1:04:03] weapon depicted in the photograph has never been recovered.

[1:04:07] Juvenile justice determined that the appropriate response was a diversion

[1:04:10] contract. His case was never brought before a judge.

[1:04:16] I believe that this community is entitled to ask whether keeping that

[1:04:20] case out of court adequately protected anyone or whether we were once again

[1:04:23] waiting for something irreversible to happen before deciding the warning signs

[1:04:27] were too serious enough to know that a stronger intervention was necessary.

[1:04:34] The severity and public safety issue is bigger than any of us could know. I am

[1:04:38] requesting that this board assist local law enforcement with starting a safety

[1:04:42] initiative to recover these illegal 3D printed firearms and conversion kits

[1:04:47] being manufactured by juveniles in Dare County. Thank you so much.

[1:04:51] » Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. >> Next is Mitchell Baitman.

[1:04:58] [clears throat] >> Welcome this morning, Mitchell.

[1:05:00] » Good morning. Good morning, commissioners, county manager Skyler.

[1:05:04] Good to see all of you. Uh I'm going to use this as a

[1:05:09] recruitment bid for something that's on your agenda later on this afternoon.

[1:05:13] It's uh item uh 15 uh article number one, the uh Bear County Joint Committee

[1:05:23] uh advisory committee, nursing home advisory committee.

[1:05:27] uh

[1:05:31] the residents in the two facilities that we have here in Dair County, Peak and

[1:05:36] Spring Arbor, that's the one of the largest growing

[1:05:41] groups of individuals in our county, the the ones who often can't speak for

[1:05:46] themselves. They don't all have family members that live here that can

[1:05:51] represent them either. uh the general statutes of the state of

[1:05:55] North Carolina established these committees. While the the county had a

[1:06:01] committee of nursing home advisory board committee until 2020 at which point all

[1:06:07] the members resigned. You've had an open committee for almost

[1:06:13] six years now without a single member on it. And if you go in your packet to the

[1:06:19] general statutes that are quoted there on uh

[1:06:24] page 127 in your package, you you'll see that this this committee is not exactly

[1:06:31] like some of the other ones that you have. You know, you have the authority

[1:06:34] to to uh recommend and put members on the committee provided that they meet

[1:06:41] the state's requirements. Uh this is the only committee I think

[1:06:46] the county has that requires 36 hours of state level training including multiple

[1:06:54] visits to each one of the facilities uh and a a a letter an essay to

[1:07:02] the committee on aging for why you want to be on that committee.

[1:07:07] Currently, there are two people in this county who have met the eligibility to

[1:07:14] serve on that committee since 2020. Two people.

[1:07:20] Two people. County commissioners. Until you go through the training, you are not

[1:07:24] eligible to serve on the committee. And usually there's a county commissioner

[1:07:27] appointed to every one of the boards that you have. But you will not be

[1:07:30] allowed to be appointed until you finish the training. There are two people in

[1:07:34] this county who are who have finished the training to serve on these boards.

[1:07:40] Mary Pendle and me. That that's not a huge representation.

[1:07:47] There's seven seven open seats. It is opportunity this afternoon to fill

[1:07:52] two of those through through Mary's uh uh training and and mine that we just

[1:07:58] finished in the 1 of August. I don't think I I don't think there's another

[1:08:02] board that requires that level of uh of state level training. So, uh, I I'd

[1:08:09] like to, uh, I'd like to encourage everyone everywhere to at least consider

[1:08:15] going through this training because of the importance that it represents in in

[1:08:19] being an advisory and an oversight group to to represent these people in the

[1:08:25] community who who often mentally and physically are unable to speak for

[1:08:29] themselves. So, I'll give up the rest of my minute and a half. Thank you.

[1:08:34] » Thank you, Mitchell. Next is Aya Havl.

[1:08:44] » Welcome Aita. >> Good morning commissioners, county

[1:08:48] manager, everyone else on the deis. Um I'm Aayita Havl and I live in Salvo. I

[1:08:55] have three comments today. The first pertains to item 12 on your agenda, the

[1:09:01] joint resolution addressed to Governor Stein and the Department of

[1:09:05] Transportation that requests a permanent fairy toll waiver for locally registered

[1:09:11] vehicles. While I support the thought and the sentiment behind the resolution,

[1:09:16] neither Governor Stein nor the Department of Transportation have the

[1:09:21] authority to grant a permanent fairy toll waiver for locally registered

[1:09:25] vehicles. That power rests with the General Assembly, which passed the law

[1:09:30] requiring tolling of all vehicles without exception. I would like to

[1:09:34] suggest that this resolution instead be directed to all of the members of the

[1:09:39] general assembly. My second comment involves flock cameras

[1:09:45] or more generically automated license plate readers. I do acknowledge that

[1:09:50] these ALPRs can be extremely useful when a child has been kidnapped or a suspect

[1:09:56] has fled a crime scene and time is of the essence. But there are far too many

[1:10:01] reports of misuse of these cameras. And human nature being what it is, the

[1:10:07] temptation is great. The following quote comes directly from

[1:10:12] the website of the National Policing Institute, which is an organization that

[1:10:17] supports the use of these ALPRs. Quote, "A state audit found federal

[1:10:24] immigration authorities had gained access to camera data in violation of

[1:10:29] state law. Disciplinary records show officers using

[1:10:34] these systems to track people they knew personally.

[1:10:38] Wrongful felony stops have been built on misread plates.

[1:10:43] Unresolved litigation is testing whether warrantless queries of a camera network

[1:10:49] amount to a fourth amendment search. Close quotes.

[1:10:55] In the slides for the upcoming presentation, I noticed that there is

[1:10:58] almost nothing mentioned about oversight, transparency, or

[1:11:03] accountability. As an attorney and someone who values

[1:11:08] our civil liberties, I'm deeply concerned about how intrusive these

[1:11:12] cameras are. Law enforcement personnel have used the system to stalk

[1:11:18] ex-romantic partners and to target people they deem suspicious but who have

[1:11:23] committed no crime. They have also submitted vague or fake justifications

[1:11:29] for the searches they have run. As I said earlier, I do recognize the

[1:11:35] benefit of having these cameras for legitimate crimesolving needs, but there

[1:11:40] should be limitations on the number of cameras, their placement, how and when

[1:11:46] they are accessed, when and with whom the data is shared, how long the data is

[1:11:53] retained, and when and how it is disposed of. If Dear County and its

[1:11:59] municipalities intend to keep these cameras, I suggest that you provide

[1:12:04] strict oversight and accountability for them in the form of a civilian review

[1:12:09] board. People who support these ALPRs sometimes

[1:12:14] say, "Well, if you're not doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't mind the

[1:12:18] surveillance." I would repeat that back to the agencies

[1:12:22] using the cameras. If you're not doing anything wrong, then you won't mind

[1:12:26] independent civilian oversight, audits, and accountability.

[1:12:31] There are civilian review boards across the county, the country, reviewing these

[1:12:36] cameras. I can think of no reason why deer county should not have a civilian

[1:12:41] review board as well if everything is above board. And finally, my third

[1:12:46] comment is I want to um specifically thank commissioners Balance, Baitman,

[1:12:52] Ross, and Woodard for uh coming to the public meeting that we had in uh Buckton

[1:13:00] a few weeks ago um on the standing water on Highway 12. It was informative and

[1:13:04] useful and responsive to the community, and I appreciate y'all being there.

[1:13:08] Thank you.

[1:13:12] » [applause] >> Next is Miriam Rollin.

[1:13:22] » Welcome this morning. >> Thank you so much. Uh good morning

[1:13:26] commissioners and Dair County residents. I'm Miriam Roland and I wanted to

[1:13:32] introduce myself. I'm Roland forward for House District 1. I wanted to share with

[1:13:37] you all uh and with our Dare County online viewers a little bit about my

[1:13:42] background as the newest candidate on the ballot at the on the ballot in Dare

[1:13:47] County. First of all, at my core, I care deeply about people who have needs that

[1:13:53] are not being met. And I also know how the system works. I've been a fighter

[1:13:59] for disadvantaged kids and families for my 40 plus year career fighting in

[1:14:04] Congress in state legislatures and in the courts. While working full-time as

[1:14:10] an advocate for vulnerable kids and families, I put myself through law

[1:14:14] school at night. And for 16 years, I was a leader of a group called Fight Crime,

[1:14:20] Invest in Kids, working with over uh working to win over a billion dollars in

[1:14:26] federal and state investments in proven effective early childhood education,

[1:14:32] afterchool programs, and voluntary home visiting for atrisisk new moms. I did

[1:14:37] that working on both sides of the aisle, bringing the voices of 5,000 police

[1:14:43] chiefs, sheriffs, and prosecutors to support these crucial investments in our

[1:14:50] children, youth, and families so we can all have a better and safer future. Now,

[1:14:57] in retirement with my wonderful husband, Mike, in beautiful Dare County for the

[1:15:01] last few years, I've been very active in my party. I even ran for Duck Town

[1:15:07] Council last year, coming up four vote shy. Heartbreaking. Uh I thought my days

[1:15:12] of seeking public office were over and I was committed to continuing the work

[1:15:17] needed to help elect candidates on the November ballot. Then I found out that

[1:15:23] our Democratic candidate for NC House District 1 was dropping out of the race.

[1:15:28] Remembering the famous quote, "be the change you want to see in the world, I

[1:15:33] officially became the Democratic candidate for NC House District 1 in

[1:15:36] early August and have been moving very fast since then." Uh, time is very tight

[1:15:41] between now and November 3rd. But I'm not just doing this as an exercise in

[1:15:46] democracy. I'm in it to win it. So, I've got a web page rolling forward

[1:15:52] fornc.com, a Facebook page rolling forward for NC House1, ACTB Blue

[1:15:57] account, rack cards, yard signs, and I've spoken at events in five of the six

[1:16:02] counties. Not bad for a few weeks work. Um, I'm happy to talk with anyone about

[1:16:08] why I'm running, why I think we can do better. Reach out for more. Um, my

[1:16:12] emails rolandforwardfornc1gmail.com.

[1:16:17] My phone is 2524911946.

[1:16:21] Mailing address PO Box 8197, Duck, North Carolina 27949.

[1:16:25] Thanks for listening and let's be in touch and please vote on November 3rd.

[1:16:30] Thanks so much. >> Thank you.

[1:16:34] » Next is Andrea O'Donnell.

[1:16:39] » Good morning. I do have some sheets.

[1:16:48] I'm Andrea O'Donnell of Kittyhawk, North Carolina, the organizer of Deflock Dare.

[1:16:54] I took a vacation day today to be here. And scheduling public comment for 9:00

[1:16:59] a.m. on a weekday does kind of send a message that public comment isn't

[1:17:04] exactly wanted necessarily. There are a lot of

[1:17:09] people that that let me know that they couldn't be here today because of that

[1:17:13] timing. So, I wanted to add that I have taken paid time off to be here. You've

[1:17:18] likely seen the growing concern about automated license plate readers. I'm not

[1:17:22] here to rehash all of the talking points. I'm here to give you facts and

[1:17:26] one legal warning this board cannot ignore. Dare County currently runs 48

[1:17:32] static flock cameras across numerous agencies, plus an unknown number of

[1:17:37] patrol-mounted units. That gives us more ALPR cameras per capita than Charlotte

[1:17:43] and Raleigh combined. These aren't simple plate readers. Each

[1:17:49] capture is a highresolution cluster of images detailing your plate and vehicle

[1:17:55] characteristics feeding a searchable record of where every driver in this

[1:18:00] county goes. Created without a warrant, without suspicion, and without consent.

[1:18:08] a drag net. In 1983, the Supreme Court ruled in the

[1:18:14] United States versus Knots that tracking one car on one trip with a single beeper

[1:18:21] locator was constitutional. But the justices explicitly warned that

[1:18:28] dragnet type of law enforcement practices involving 24-hour surveillance

[1:18:34] of any citizen would raise different constitutional questions entirely.

[1:18:40] That warning was theoretical in 1983. Today, it's Dare County's reality. This

[1:18:47] isn't one beeper on one suspect. It's aworked system logging everyone who

[1:18:53] drives on 158, 64, 12, 345, and our residential streets. I'm asking you to

[1:19:02] take that 40-year-old warning seriously today.

[1:19:06] Did you know that Flock's own sales training materials, which was leaked

[1:19:10] recently, quote, "A company consultant instructing staff not to bother denying

[1:19:16] that this is mass surveillance, but to own the narrative by redirecting

[1:19:21] residents to audit logs instead of consenting, instead of contesting the

[1:19:26] label." When the vendor selling you this system

[1:19:30] privately admits that it what it publicly avoids, this board should weigh

[1:19:36] that admission heavier than any marketing brochure. This isn't about

[1:19:40] distrusting law enforcement. Officers are human and humans misuse power. This

[1:19:47] is not cynicism or paranoia. That it's history. It's why the Fourth

[1:19:54] Amendment exists. No officer could legally follow me every

[1:19:58] day logging my movements without probable cause.

[1:20:02] Why should an AI powered camera network be allowed to do exactly that? And safe

[1:20:08] and the safety case, it doesn't hold up. FBI data shows cities running these

[1:20:14] systems like Atlanta, which has a whole huge live crime facility, have seen no

[1:20:21] meaningful improvement in clearance rates for serious crimes.

[1:20:26] We're being asked to accept a permanent drag net on every innocent driver in

[1:20:31] exchange for a benefit that is not showing up in the numbers.

[1:20:36] You'll be hearing today from others about court cases like Shattery Vus and

[1:20:41] hopefully a full written ordinance is being presented to ban ALPRs countywide.

[1:20:47] I'm leaving you a tracking document which you just received confirming

[1:20:50] misuse cases, every contract paused, canceled or abandoned by other

[1:20:54] jurisdictions. Proof this concern is not fringe. It's bipartisan and it's

[1:21:00] growing. Our petition already has 750 signatures, which you have a copy of

[1:21:06] from your constituents, visitors, and that was done with very little leg work

[1:21:10] on my part, those 750. Please read the contract, Mr. Outton. I

[1:21:16] want to make sure you read section 5.3 allowing flock to make their own

[1:21:21] decisions about the sharing of the information since you signed the

[1:21:26] contract. Do the due diligence. Listen to the people in this room and the

[1:21:31] people online who can't be here. My job as a citizen is to defend the

[1:21:36] constitution. I'm asking you to do yours as elected officials and ban LPRs in

[1:21:43] Dare County. Thank you. [applause]

[1:21:47] » [cheering]

[1:21:52] » Catherine, >> what?

[1:21:54] » Katherine Heath. >> There's actually 52 cameras now.

[1:21:58] » 52. You guys put up more. >> Sometimes it's

[1:22:01] » What was What's Bobby? Who's next? >> Katherine Heath.

[1:22:05] » Pardon? >> Katherine Heath. Thank you.

[1:22:09] » Good morning. >> Welcome, Miss Heath. And I have a copy

[1:22:12] of the relevant portions of Marbury versus Madison for all of you.

[1:22:25] And all of you should have received uh my emails last week and I hope you've

[1:22:30] read them. And it should be clear that I'm opposed to these cameras as the

[1:22:36] system is as broad in scope as it is. It is not the same as those static

[1:22:42] license plate readers. It's covering itself with that definition.

[1:22:50] » [clears throat]

[1:22:52] » The men who wrote are the US Constitution

[1:22:57] and [clears throat] the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights

[1:23:00] deliberated for years to protect individual rights from

[1:23:07] overbearing and overreaching government. And now, are we now so ignorant of our

[1:23:15] history and the founding documents that define the highest law of the land

[1:23:22] that we live in that we would so willingly toss them aside for an

[1:23:26] illusion of safety and security. The surveillance system, barely beyond

[1:23:33] infancy, has already been plagued with abuses that should remind us all of the

[1:23:39] reason the amendments to the Constitution were written. Because men

[1:23:44] are not angels. And government and policing need

[1:23:50] restraints. Restraints that prevent the base human

[1:23:54] desires from prevailing. That's why the Fourth Amendment was

[1:23:59] written. I highly doubt that a challenge to this

[1:24:04] surveillance would survive a constitutional review in the Supreme

[1:24:08] Court. I would suggest that you review the

[1:24:13] decision in Marbury versus versus Madison and a more recent decision in

[1:24:19] Chatry versus United States which I sent to you.

[1:24:24] and now and make the decision now to stand on the right side of this

[1:24:31] violation of privacy before you are forced to deal with the

[1:24:37] error of allowing it to continue. Thank you. And just to quote Justice

[1:24:46] Jackson in the Chatry case, she said, "Allowing government to access all of a

[1:24:53] cell phone users movements is a virtual pen pan panopticon which to scrutinize

[1:25:01] its citizens actions and these cameras are the same."

[1:25:08] And I included a definition of panopticon in the papers that I sent.

[1:25:16] [applause]

[1:25:20] » Wescott.

[1:25:24] » Repeat that name. >> Bonnie Wescott.

[1:25:29] » Welcome, Miss Wes. >> Good morning. Morning, chairman.

[1:25:33] Morning, commissioners. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. Um, I'm

[1:25:37] just going to touch on something that I was recently made aware of, um, yet is

[1:25:41] supposed to be taking place next month. Um, I'm here to share my input and

[1:25:47] personal perspective regarding the proposed relocation of the graves at the

[1:25:51] Dair County Regional Airport.

[1:25:56] I didn't plan on crying today. [clears throat]

[1:26:06] This is a site that holds a deeply personal

[1:26:10] significance for me as it contains my own family's resting place.

[1:26:15] My lineage to this site starts [sighs] with my father George Obadiah

[1:26:21] Wescuit Jr. His father George Obadiah Wescuit senior,

[1:26:27] his father George Rolley Weskit, his father Obadiah

[1:26:33] Jennings Weskuit. And his father

[1:26:38] who is my great great great-grandfather, John Wellington Wesk, who is buried on

[1:26:43] the airport property. To provide some historical context,

[1:26:49] John Wellington Westgate [snorts]

[1:26:53] donated an acre of the property that was used to build the original Dair County

[1:26:56] Courthouse in 1870, which stands as arguably the oldest government building

[1:27:01] in our county. His contributions [snorts]

[1:27:05] along with those of the others buried there are foundational to the very

[1:27:09] identity of this community. These are not merely anonymous unmarked

[1:27:15] graves or just obstacles at an airport.

[1:27:25] These are local historical figures who shaped Reno Island and Dair County. They

[1:27:29] deserve to be honored and protected as permanent designated historical site

[1:27:35] right where they are rather than being exumed and relocated.

[1:27:42] » [snorts] >> Sorry.

[1:27:46] Also buried in the cemetery [snorts] are John Thomas Daniels Senior and Mary

[1:27:52] E. Wesket. They are the parents of John Thomas Daniels Jr. who was a US

[1:27:57] life-saving service surfman who snapped [snorts] the iconic and world famous

[1:28:02] photograph of the Wright brothers very first powered flight in 1903 which took

[1:28:07] place right down the road from where we are right now.

[1:28:10] » [snorts] >> The lineage of the individuals in this

[1:28:13] graveyard is directly woven into the birth of aviation and the global history

[1:28:18] of flight as we know it. Again, these are not just people we're talking about.

[1:28:24] These are local historical figures and they should be respected as such.

[1:28:29] » [snorts] >> Instead of exuming and relocating these

[1:28:31] remains, this area should be formally designated [snorts] and protected as a

[1:28:36] historical site for our island and our county. I'm confident that no one in

[1:28:42] this room would be comfortable with the idea of their own ancestors being

[1:28:47] disturbed centuries centuries after their passing.

[1:28:52] Logistically and ethically, there is no dignified way to relocate remains that

[1:28:57] have been at rest for hundreds of years. We do not know their structural

[1:29:01] integrity or the conditions of the caskets. After

[1:29:07] centuries in the ground, [snorts] it is highly improbable that these structures

[1:29:11] can be excavated intact, [snorts] which risks severe and disrespectful damage to

[1:29:16] the deceased.

[1:29:21] I urge you to please reconsider or postpone these plans. I [snorts] along

[1:29:28] with other members of the Westgate family are open to a discussion and a

[1:29:32] viable solution with [snorts] the airport as well as the

[1:29:36] county. We owe it to our island's history and

[1:29:39] these individuals, my family, to let them rest in eternal

[1:29:44] peace. Thank you. >> [applause]

[1:29:55] » Matthew, is it SARS? I'm sorry, I can't read your writing.

[1:29:58] » Yeah.

[1:30:02] » Welcome this morning. >> Good morning. I am Matthew SCS. I'm a

[1:30:05] resident of Southern Shores. Uh, and I'm here on PTO today to join the chorus of

[1:30:09] voices expressing their concerns with Dair County's use of ALPR cameras. I'm

[1:30:13] calling for the cancellation of Dair County's contract with Flock, the

[1:30:16] removal of these cameras, and a moratorium on all ALPR technologies in

[1:30:19] Dare County. As another Banks local, I greatly value my privacy. And as as I

[1:30:24] can assure you, anyone who can stand the isolation of an OBX winter does.

[1:30:29] And as a taxpaying, law-abiding citizen of Dair County, I have to say I despise

[1:30:33] being under constant drag net surveillance anytime I go anywhere in my

[1:30:36] car. Supporters will claim that ALPR cameras enhance public safety. But Dair

[1:30:40] County already has a significantly lower violent crime rate per per capita than

[1:30:45] the North Carolina state average, a trend which has held since the prior of

[1:30:49] the prior to the installation of these cameras. Is our reward for this good

[1:30:52] behavior uh becoming one of the most highly surveiled counties in North

[1:30:55] Carolina? The only evidence I've seen for these cameras being used to solve

[1:30:59] crimes in our communities are police departments posting on Facebook to find

[1:31:02] people who have attempted to vandalize these surveillance devices. Why should

[1:31:06] I, as a taxpayer, uh, pay for a device whose only us is to solve problems it

[1:31:10] creates? Nationwide, the story is the same. In fact, if anything, they make us

[1:31:15] less safe. You have to have your head in the sand to ignore the countless

[1:31:18] examples of ALPR technologies falsely implicating innocent people through

[1:31:22] misidentification and being abused by law enforcement and flock employees to

[1:31:26] spy on private citizens. So, I ask again, why would I want my tax dollars

[1:31:30] to pay for these cameras? Keeping to the nationwide frame of

[1:31:34] reference, these technologies are hugely unpopular across the country and across

[1:31:38] political ideologies. From Los Angeles to Texas, communities and state

[1:31:42] governments are cancelling their contract with Flock and banning these

[1:31:45] ALPR technologies. Let me repeat that. California and Texas agree on this

[1:31:51] issue. [laughter]

[1:31:54] Why then would tourists who are looking to relax and enjoy their summer vacation

[1:31:57] choose to come to our little ponopticon? I can think of few things less relaxing

[1:32:01] than big brother tracking my every move. As backlash against these ALPR cameras

[1:32:05] continues to grow, I can think uh it will no doubt impact tourism to Dare

[1:32:09] County, which is our economic backbone. In conclusion, these cameras do not make

[1:32:13] us safer. As demonstrated today, they are despised by locals and they are

[1:32:18] detriments to our local economy. Dare County Board of Commissioners, I call on

[1:32:21] you to defluck Dare County immediately. Thank you, [applause]

[1:32:29] » Andrea Wendle. [applause]

[1:32:39] » Uh, good morning. Uh, >> Bobby,

[1:32:43] » you're sorry. Andrea Wendle. >> Yes.

[1:32:46] » Welcome, Miss Wendle. >> Good morning. Um, I am proud to live in

[1:32:49] the town of Kittyhawk that does not have any flock cameras.

[1:32:54] [laughter and gasps] >> How [clears throat] do you manage?

[1:32:56] » I don't know. Anyway, townwise, I mean, personal businesses,

[1:33:02] whatever. Um, and I don't think I could say anything more than that has all been

[1:33:07] eloquently said by previous um, public commenters. Um I do agree that

[1:33:17] it's a slippery slope and what little bit of

[1:33:24] u privacy that we have in this world should be held on to and we can't just

[1:33:30] say no flock it's no any surveillance because it's it just continues and the

[1:33:38] reason why I was able to come here this morning to comment is Because my

[1:33:44] daughter, who is 15 and is at first flight high school, normally doesn't

[1:33:49] have first period class. She has an online class. She went to school early

[1:33:54] for first period this morning so I could make the meeting because she felt it was

[1:33:58] important that I come to represent because she sees the importance of that.

[1:34:04] So that is my time. Thank you. [applause]

[1:34:12] Sha Clark.

[1:34:17] » Welcome, Mr. Clark. >> Thank you.

[1:34:21] » Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the board. Um, my name is Taylor

[1:34:26] Clark, a resident of Wes and Dare County.

[1:34:29] Local reporting shows that nearly 50 flock safety license plate readers

[1:34:33] across this county, which as iterated earlier is one of the most densest

[1:34:38] deployments per capita in North Carolina.

[1:34:42] These cameras from a private company record vehicles and feed the data into a

[1:34:47] searchable network. And most of us were never informed or asked before they went

[1:34:52] up. I have three questions that still lack clear answers. perhaps will be

[1:34:58] answered today in the presentation. How do how much do these systems cost

[1:35:02] taxpayers each year? Where does the money come from, a grant

[1:35:08] or otherwise, and which officials voted to approve

[1:35:13] this contract, and under what open process?

[1:35:18] Local law enforcement has said that these cameras take point in time photos

[1:35:23] of plates and vehicle details and store the data for only 30 days, require a

[1:35:29] case number for searches, and audit these searches. A pamphlet seemingly

[1:35:33] provided by Flock Safety itself that is now posted on a county website makes

[1:35:38] similar claims, calls privacy concerns myths

[1:35:44] and states that Flock does not sell customer data or compile it into a

[1:35:48] national a national database that these community own that the community owns uh

[1:35:54] the data 100% and only the local agency decides who to share it with. But in

[1:35:59] practice, Flock operates a national network. Local departments, including

[1:36:04] the sheriff's office here, have stated that they share data with other state

[1:36:08] and federal agencies on a case-byase basis.

[1:36:11] Once sharing is enabled, uh, plate data collected here can be searched by

[1:36:15] agencies well beyond our county. Even though the cameras take only point-in-

[1:36:22] time images and do not continuously track vehicles, a dense network of them

[1:36:26] will allow reconstruction of movements over time.

[1:36:31] The Supreme Court in Carpenter versus the United States held that detailed

[1:36:35] location tracking can violate the Fourth Amendment. Courts are not uniform in

[1:36:40] these this in this decision yet, although Flock seems to state that it

[1:36:47] is. um as well as a a federal case called Smith versus the city of uh

[1:36:52] Norfolk, which challenges dense networks of

[1:36:56] license plate readers uh requiring a warrant is still on appeal in the Fourth

[1:37:02] Circuit. And as I'm sure you're aware, the Fourth Circuit is also

[1:37:08] what uh covers North Carolina. So the constitutional questions remain

[1:37:13] unsettled. Supporters often point to these u systems catching stolen cars,

[1:37:19] but these AI systems are not infallible. Uh in Toledo, Ohio in 2024, a flock

[1:37:26] camera misread just one digit on a man's license plate and flagged it as stolen.

[1:37:32] Brandon Upurch was stopped at gunpoint, bitten by a police dog, detained, and

[1:37:37] charged. The charges were later dropped, and he settled a lawsuit for $35,000.

[1:37:44] Similar errors have put other innocent people at risk. Officers in other places

[1:37:48] have also misused the system for personal reasons, including stalking.

[1:37:54] Um, but one of my major personal concerns is that we are outsourcing core

[1:38:01] investigative work to a private multi-billion dollar company. Continuing

[1:38:08] to expand these systems risks making our local police dependent on private

[1:38:14] vendors. Uh once once the departments rely on

[1:38:19] these private companies proprietary cameras, software and national network

[1:38:23] for leads and evidence, that capability becomes harder to replace

[1:38:29] and they're potentially fully control even locally. Uh we did not ask for this

[1:38:36] network. Public safety matters, but so do privacy, transparency, accuracy, and

[1:38:42] accountability to the people of Der County. So today, I urge this board to

[1:38:47] demand at least a full public accounting of the costs, the contract, the votes,

[1:38:55] and data sharing policies. um and to pause any expansion

[1:39:01] until further resident uh until residents have been meaningfully heard.

[1:39:05] Thank you, [applause]

[1:39:11] Morgan.

[1:39:22] [clears throat] >> Welcome, Miss Morgan.

[1:39:24] » Hey, should have more coffee. Okay.

[1:39:29] Well, I'm not here to speak about the flock cameras, but I and I wasn't going

[1:39:34] to say anything until I heard Miss Wescott speak. I do want to That was

[1:39:38] emotional. I think that, you know, moving those graves is just wrong. So, I

[1:39:42] just want to jump on that. But I am here. My name is Katie Morgan and I'm

[1:39:46] here today to voice my strong opposition to the pennies for parks tax increase

[1:39:52] that will be on the November on our November ballot. And I have to ask this.

[1:39:58] Isn't this an all Republican board of commissioners?

[1:40:02] Then show us what fiscal responsibility looks like. Budget the money you already

[1:40:07] have. I see wasteful and unnecessary spending by this county all the time.

[1:40:14] I'm appalled that $20,000 has been set aside to convince us

[1:40:19] taxpayers to support raising our own taxes. Think about that.

[1:40:25] Just think about that. Y'all are using our tax dollars to convince us to give

[1:40:31] you more tax dollars. That's wild to me. And then there's the $400,000

[1:40:37] being given to the DAR Housing Foundation to help with startup costs

[1:40:42] for its nonprofit. a nonprofit, mind you, that was created

[1:40:47] by many of the same exact people who were involved in trying to address our

[1:40:53] housing crisis with state funding. Funding that, as I understand it,

[1:40:58] ultimately had to be sent back because they couldn't figure out how to use it.

[1:41:03] But here we are still throwing money at a sinking ship. And for what? And

[1:41:09] seriously, I can't I can't stomach it when I think about it. I truly can't.

[1:41:15] Here is your answer to the housing problem. Pay your own employees more and

[1:41:20] let local businesses figure it out for themselves. The county government is not

[1:41:25] responsible for providing housing. Period. We can we do need parks and

[1:41:30] wreck improvements, but we don't need higher taxes to do it. We need better

[1:41:35] budgeting. >> I urge everyone to vote no in November

[1:41:38] on that tax increase. And it's not that I'm not interested in the rest of this

[1:41:43] meeting, but we will be leaving because I'm very proud of my four-year-old for

[1:41:46] hanging out this entire time. And she told me right before I came up here, she

[1:41:50] had to use the bathroom. So, thank you for your time.

[1:41:54] [applause]

[1:41:57] » Next is John Amsbury.

[1:42:04] » Welcome, Mr. Ansbury. >> Good morning, Mr. chairman,

[1:42:09] commissioners, county manager, members of law enforcement, distinguished

[1:42:13] guests, and fellow citizens. My name is John Msbury, a resident of Mans Harbor,

[1:42:17] and thank you for the opportunity to speak this morning. First, I'd like to

[1:42:21] start with this is not an argument against law enforcement. I will be

[1:42:24] touching on the flot cameras. We all want effective tools to solve crimes and

[1:42:28] protect our community. My concern is a simple principle. When government power

[1:42:32] carries significant potential for abuse, it deserves the highest level of public

[1:42:37] scrutiny. Flock advertises license plate

[1:42:40] recognition and AI assisted searching. Those capabilities may assist

[1:42:43] investigators, of course. However, my concern extends beyond license plates

[1:42:48] alone. Publicly available flock patents describe much broader technical

[1:42:52] capabilities than those advertised or conveyed to us by members of law

[1:42:55] enforcement. This alone raises legitimate questions about how these

[1:42:59] technologies may evolve, what information they be may be capable of

[1:43:03] collecting or aggregating over time. As an intelligence analyst, I can

[1:43:07] personally attest that a long-term record of a person's movement can reveal

[1:43:10] where they worship, where they seek medical care, who they associate with,

[1:43:14] their political affiliations, where they work, what time they sleep, where they

[1:43:18] spend their private lives. And that's not just location data.

[1:43:22] Furthermore, these data sets also feed into a larger system known as Palunteer,

[1:43:26] which I can explain to you in greater detail at a later time.

[1:43:30] The broader trend raises concerns about network surveillance and

[1:43:33] crossjurisdictional data sharing when information collected here in Dare

[1:43:37] County may become accessible beyond our county and citizens deserve to know who

[1:43:40] has access under what authority, how long the data is retained, and what

[1:43:44] safeguards exist to prevent misuse. Unfortunately, documented cases across

[1:43:49] the country have shown surveillance systems can and have been improperly

[1:43:53] accessed for personal reasons by members of law enforcement. Now, I'm not

[1:43:57] suggesting every officer would misuse these tools, but what I am saying is

[1:44:02] good public policy definitely assumes the possibility for abuse and build

[1:44:07] safeguards uh accordingly. This is ultimately a matter of public trust and

[1:44:11] the sheriff serves the people of Dair County and this board serves the people

[1:44:15] of Der County. Both are accountable to voters and a public surveillance vendor

[1:44:19] is not. Given that flock safety is under

[1:44:23] congressional investigation and communities across this state to include

[1:44:27] Greenville, Davidson County, and Asheville uh as well as this country

[1:44:32] um are rethinking similar programs and I ask this board to exercise the same

[1:44:36] caution. Therefore, I respectfully ask this board to terminate the county's

[1:44:40] participation in this flock program under the uh until the conclusion of the

[1:44:43] congressional investigation. If the board is not prepared to do so today, I

[1:44:47] respectfully request that you immediately suspend the program pending

[1:44:50] an independent third-party audit. That audit should be conducted by an

[1:44:55] organization with no financial or contractual obligations to the state,

[1:44:58] county, or surveillance vendor chosen through a transparent public process.

[1:45:03] The scope should include how the system has been used, whether searches follow

[1:45:06] county policy and applicable law, who accessed the data, and whether the

[1:45:10] public got complete and accurate information beforehand.

[1:45:13] Additionally, that audit should be approved publicly by the board and the

[1:45:18] final report released to the public to the fullest extent permitted by law.

[1:45:23] I also asked this board to consider the fiscal responsibility. These systems are

[1:45:27] not one-time purchases. They require ongoing subscription fees, maintenance,

[1:45:32] and future expenditures. And before committing additional taxpayer dollars,

[1:45:36] citizens deserve a full accounting of the total costs and an honest comparison

[1:45:40] of whether those same resources can provide greater public safety if

[1:45:43] invested elsewhere. Our constitutional rights should not

[1:45:47] grow weaker as technology grows stronger.

[1:45:50] The fourth amendment to the United States Constitution and Article One,

[1:45:54] particularly section 20 of the North Carolina Constitution,

[1:45:57] exists to place limits on government power. Now, section 20 of the article

[1:46:02] one of North Carolina constitution covers warrants. None of these cameras

[1:46:06] require warrants. Good government asks not only can we do

[1:46:10] something, but should we do it? And that question falls squarely within your

[1:46:14] duties as commissioners. Finally, please understand that we are here today

[1:46:18] exercising one of our most fundamental constitutional rights, the right to

[1:46:21] petition our government for the red address of grievances. We're doing so

[1:46:25] peacefully and respectfully because we believe these concerns are shared by

[1:46:30] many members of this community. If the people of Dare County believe their

[1:46:33] concerns are not being addressed, our constitutional system provides peaceful

[1:46:36] and democratic means for civic participation and the ballot box. Thank

[1:46:41] you very much for your time. [applause]

[1:46:49] That's everyone who signed up. Would anyone else like to speak at public

[1:46:52] comment? Yes, ma'am. Please state your name and where you're

[1:46:55] from. >> What's up, buttercups? My name is

[1:46:59] Melanie Bortser and I'm living in Kill Double Hills. I'm here to kill the devil

[1:47:03] today, hopefully with y'all doing what you're doing. But I'm a mom of three

[1:47:07] kids. I'm a business owner in um our community. And I'm blown away that you

[1:47:12] all signed up for something and you didn't ask. And I kind of want to know

[1:47:16] like there was a question back here. He wanted to know all the different He

[1:47:21] wants like to know what's going on behind the flock cameras, but I kind of

[1:47:24] want to know what's lining y'all's pockets to have made that decision in

[1:47:28] the first place. I want to know why no none of us were asked to be permanently

[1:47:33] surveiled. I want to know why we're living in America and it feels like

[1:47:37] China. I want to know how you guys can guarantee me that my

[1:47:43] children are not being stalked by stalkers because they want to go on a

[1:47:48] walk. They want to walk down the bike path in Kill Devil Hills that has flock

[1:47:52] cameras watching flock cameras. [gasps] What is What is happening? Why do we

[1:47:58] have cameras watching cameras? Because you guys do know that when tyranny

[1:48:03] becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. And these citizens in this community have

[1:48:08] stood back and watched you all abuse your power. And we have done it the

[1:48:13] democratic way of showing up to speak and to hold you all accountable. But the

[1:48:20] time is drawing near to find out that we are more flocked than freaking Raleigh

[1:48:25] and Charlotte. I didn't know that, but I sure as crap know that our crime rates

[1:48:31] are like nothing. Everybody in this community pretty much treats everybody

[1:48:35] else like family. There might be like what 1 to 5% bad people. And the stories

[1:48:40] I see go by on Facebook, the worst thing I saw last week was somebody embezzled

[1:48:45] $2,000. That's what you all got to report on.

[1:48:49] And you've got you've got police force for what? 450,000 people all year long.

[1:48:56] That's why when someone gets pulled over, three police show up to the

[1:49:00] pullover. Not just one. You got a crowd. >> Yeah. That's our tax dollars working

[1:49:06] right there. Why do we got to pay? What's What can someone do the math? I

[1:49:09] didn't even bring my phone in here today. What is $3,500, which is

[1:49:13] supposedly the amount that each flock camera costs just to install. What is

[1:49:17] $3500 times 52? Because that's what you took out of Deer County pockets to put

[1:49:22] these count cameras up. And then I know that y'all are on a subscription service

[1:49:25] cuz we own nothing. and we will be happy and be seen as criminals. Like I treat

[1:49:31] people as family when I walk down the street. Y'all's flock system treats us

[1:49:34] like criminals like we're doing something wrong. And all of us are out

[1:49:37] here just trying to live our lives. We're trying to participate in society

[1:49:40] and do good societal things. And y'all want to call us criminals and track us

[1:49:45] from the moment we wake up in the morning until the moment we go to sleep

[1:49:48] at night. And I can tell you what, I'm done. I am done. I spoke in Killvil

[1:49:52] Hills. I'm speaking here and I'm gonna call to action for the folks in Wanches,

[1:49:57] Man's Harbor, Kuruck County, them boys are waiting with their sawzalls. And if

[1:50:02] you want to take these cameras down now and save yourself the funding, what's a

[1:50:07] sawzall? That's how these people are removing the cameras. They are sawing

[1:50:11] them off and dragging them out and they're gone. And I want to bring to the

[1:50:15] record all of the gold, all of the copper, all of the things inside those

[1:50:19] flock cameras, they're dismantling them and selling them for profit. So, if you

[1:50:23] guys want to get your fund or no, wait, let's rephrase. If we want to get our

[1:50:28] funding back from the flock corporation that you all signed us up for, I suggest

[1:50:33] you all take them down, get y'all's refund. I hope you saved your receipts.

[1:50:39] I don't know what you're doing signing contracts, but I hope that you all get

[1:50:44] your receipts because them boys are going to be taking them down and they're

[1:50:47] just waiting. They're waiting for the democratic process to happen. So, I

[1:50:50] encourage you guys to take some action. I also encourage you to not pick up

[1:50:56] hundreds years old dead bodies. Like, what are you all doing? This is what

[1:51:00] we're here to talk about. I took time out of my day. My kids waiting in the

[1:51:04] car with our puppy so that I can come here and make sure that our voices are

[1:51:09] heard. So, once again, when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. And

[1:51:15] I ask everybody to stand up and do something about this and say no effing

[1:51:21] more. Get the flock out of here. Thank you all. Thank you all for being here.

[1:51:26] We appreciate you. Have a [applause and cheering] great day.

[1:51:33] » Yes, sir.

[1:51:37] » Apparently, you've got to sign up to speak. I didn't realize that.

[1:51:41] » What's your name? >> Andrew Jenkins.

[1:51:42] » Thank you, Mr. Jenkins. >> Uh, you bet. I am a resident of uh Mano

[1:51:47] and I've just come to speak just a moment about the the flock situation.

[1:51:52] I'm a 17-year federal employee. I've got about 32 years of both public and

[1:51:57] private service. I've served in the Af in Afghanistan. Uh so I've got a little

[1:52:04] bit little bit of skin in the game and I'm not just uh yelling at the screen

[1:52:08] watching YouTube. Uh so the the flock situation obviously we've got a lot of

[1:52:14] people here who are wellversed on it and I won't reiterate a lot of their points

[1:52:17] but if you uh the the first thing to mention is that

[1:52:22] we're all in support of law enforcement and actually having a a safe community.

[1:52:26] We all deserve to be safe which is what the the uh the brochure says but we all

[1:52:31] deserve our privacy as well that's in uh with respect to our constitutional

[1:52:36] rights. But uh let me just mention a few things that weren't uh brought up

[1:52:40] before. One of those is that uh these flock cameras are uh leaning forward in

[1:52:47] the the AI technology. So there's predictive technologies that are

[1:52:50] installed in the cameras. And what those what that does predictive technology is

[1:52:56] not just um reactive to crime, it's predictive to crime. So if there's uh a

[1:53:02] situation where it's going to learn habits and situations and uh mannerisms

[1:53:08] and uh it it might actually be able to determine that you will create or will

[1:53:14] commit a crime rather than you have committed a crime. So predictive

[1:53:18] technology is part of the uh part of the design. So trying to put guard rails,

[1:53:26] controls, security on these cameras is impossible. uh what what that's how

[1:53:31] they're designed. So the um the ar architectural reality is that the system

[1:53:37] cannot be reformed. Uh you'll hear proposals for local policy compromises,

[1:53:43] shorter data retention periods, inter agency sharing restrictions or strict

[1:53:47] use policies. These proposals misunderstand the fundamental

[1:53:50] architecture of the product. Mass surveillance is not an accidental side

[1:53:54] effect of the Flock platform. it is the business model and the core technical

[1:53:59] design. So, it's a Trojan horse. Uh it's a creeping menace. And if we want to

[1:54:06] have a community that's uh we we all have our privacy and our our our rights,

[1:54:12] I I'm not even saying to do a review. I'm just saying to reject it and go with

[1:54:17] something else. [applause]

[1:54:21] Um so, I I I just appreciate your time and I appreciate the community's time.

[1:54:25] Uh I I think that uh it's a worthwhile cause and um one of the things is that

[1:54:32] we're no one's making these decisions. We're not that's why it's a Trojan horse

[1:54:37] because you're going to see down the road if you hold it up against the

[1:54:40] Constitution and through the Supreme Court these things are going to start to

[1:54:43] get rolled back. Um you are seeing a lot of things get rolled back right now

[1:54:47] specifically in Florida which wasn't mentioned as well. They're they're

[1:54:51] rejecting it statewide. So, I would just encourage a uh just a little bit of

[1:54:56] insight and and uh research. Thank you for your time.

[1:55:00] » Thank you, sir. [applause]

[1:55:04] » Right behind you first. >> Did you?

[1:55:08] » Yes, sir.

[1:55:15] » My name is Charlie Parker. Uh today I was ultimately surprised when I walked

[1:55:20] in. I forgot to sign in because there were a number of people in line waiting

[1:55:25] to come today. That's unusual. Um Bob, you brought up 911 and Chief, like prior

[1:55:33] years, I will be there. 911 is personal to me. My classmate Brian McGee never

[1:55:41] came home. 12 other people who graduated from my high school never came home.

[1:55:48] And for you folks who have never seen or been to the Twin Towers, you have no

[1:55:53] idea of the scope of how big they were. If you were fishing 40 miles off

[1:55:58] Manhattan on a clear day, you could see the tops of the towers. One day, a

[1:56:04] rainy, miserable, cold day, I was uh volunteered by my wife to be one of the

[1:56:10] drivers of her Girl Scout troop to the Twin Towers.

[1:56:14] We get in the first elevator and the girls thought they were being shot off

[1:56:17] in a rocket. The elevators are so fast. The last elevator door opened up and it

[1:56:23] was beautiful sky. No clouds, sun. We were above the weather. The girls looked

[1:56:31] down and saw the [clears throat] storm below them. That's how big those

[1:56:36] buildings were. You can't grasp it. The second reason why I'm here is I would

[1:56:42] like you folks to rearrange your agenda and have one last item. We've just heard

[1:56:48] people talk about the flock cameras. The next is going to be a presentation about

[1:56:53] the flock cameras, but there's no ability today for the people here, the

[1:56:59] citizens to give their input to you and get input back from you. A lot number of

[1:57:05] municipalities have at the end a question and answer period. I think our

[1:57:12] board of commissioners should have a question and answer period so that when

[1:57:16] you are discussing things you can get immediate feedback from the citizens. I

[1:57:22] see no reason why you wouldn't go along with that. Thank you.

[1:57:27] [applause]

[1:57:32] » How you all doing? My name is Jason Fleck. from Colton Harbor and uh he

[1:57:35] basically just summed it up for me too. I was going to say like it's kind of

[1:57:39] counterintuitive to have a presentation and have us go our comments beforehand

[1:57:42] and not afterwards. And everyone's concerned with y'all review um reviewing

[1:57:47] the flock cameras and having an audit or something. It's physically impossible

[1:57:50] because y'all have no control over the flock cameras. The corporation that

[1:57:53] y'all signed up for has the control and they will not entertain anything y'all

[1:57:57] say. So, as everyone else said, we just need to reject the flock cameras and all

[1:58:00] surveillance. It's Axon as well. They do the um body cameras for the police.

[1:58:05] Supposedly, they are now the next flock cameras that

[1:58:08] » y'all are going to be sold. And as well, Palanteer, all y'all need to look into

[1:58:11] Palanteer. Oh yeah, >> because all all y'all ring cameras,

[1:58:14] everything is all tied into Palunteer. So everyone's worried about flock

[1:58:17] abusing their rights. It's Palanteer. And it's amazing what we give up in in

[1:58:21] for in for convenience and fear. We give up all our rights, basically. And then

[1:58:25] everyone comes back here and is upset about it. But y'all need to wake up.

[1:58:28] These clock cameras, >> phones,

[1:58:30] » phone, everything's all tied to palent here. all your doorbell cameras. It's

[1:58:33] all mass surveillance. So, just one more thing. You all need to deflock their

[1:58:38] county or all mass surveillance really. And I'm curious on who who orchestrated

[1:58:43] this all as well. Like I want to find out which one of y'all actually was in

[1:58:47] charge of signing the contract and think this was good for our our county. So,

[1:58:51] thank you for your time. Have a good one.

[1:58:54] [applause]

[1:59:03] Good morning. I'm Katherine Fagan. I think some of you already know me. Um, I

[1:59:07] have a few things. One, um, moving these graves totally wrong. U, I read about it

[1:59:14] and and was appalled. Hearing Miss Wescott made it even more real. Um, also

[1:59:20] with the master plan for the airport, and I live on airport roads, so

[1:59:26] it's very personal to me. Um, how come when you go to the airport, uh, uh, the

[1:59:32] Der County airport, you cannot get a copy of the master plan? When I click on

[1:59:36] that, it says I don't have access. I would like to see the master plan for

[1:59:41] the airport because that is going to absolutely directly impact me and it

[1:59:44] should be online for everybody. you know, people who are impacted by their

[1:59:48] families graves being moved, for example. So, that that was uh that was

[1:59:53] one issue. Um

[1:59:58] the other thing is the flock cameras. We should just totally deflock. We

[2:00:04] shouldn't reconsider how the contract is drafted. Get rid of it. We don't need

[2:00:08] that kind of surveillance. It's absolutely creepy to think that you are

[2:00:12] being followed wherever you go around this county and in this jurisdiction.

[2:00:17] And it's absolutely a warrantless search. And why aren't there not HIPPO

[2:00:22] violations involved in that as well? You should not know when I'm going to the

[2:00:25] doctor. I don't want you to know. And I don't want law enforcement to know. It's

[2:00:30] none of your damn business. But yet, that's what we have going on. They will

[2:00:34] know when I go to the doctors. They will know what hospital I'm going to. They

[2:00:38] will know what office I'm going to. They will know who my friends are. And even

[2:00:42] if I'm doing nothing wrong, it doesn't matter.

[2:00:46] I didn't sign up to be watched. And the CEO Langley of this organization, when

[2:00:53] you try and look him up, he is blurred. You can't see his plates. You can't see

[2:00:59] his home. So if he doesn't think privacy is important, why is he blurred?

[2:01:05] So you try and say it's for safety, but Ben

[2:01:09] Franklin said those who would give up essential liberties to purchase a little

[2:01:14] temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[2:01:19] [applause]

[2:01:23] » Flock cameras take away our liberty and they take away our safety. I don't feel

[2:01:28] safer with them. I feel very much unsafe. [snorts] And Sheriff Dowy was up

[2:01:33] here earlier and he made a comment and I have the ultimate respect for Sheriff

[2:01:37] Dowy as he knows. Um, but he made a side comment that said uh he has a son who's

[2:01:44] in law school that he hopes he goes to the the right side, not the dark side.

[2:01:49] Now, I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Sheriff, but I believe

[2:01:53] he's inferring that he would become a prosecutor and not a defense council or

[2:01:59] something else. Anyway, but the right side, the right side of the law is the

[2:02:06] constitutional side. And warrantless searches,

[2:02:10] warrantless searches are not the right side of the law. And these flock cameras

[2:02:16] are nothing but warrantless searches. You know, an officer, if he wants to put

[2:02:19] a tracker on a car, has to go get a warrant. Has to has to apply for a

[2:02:25] warrant, which is quite a process. But with these, you don't need a warrant

[2:02:30] because they are going constantly all the time and they're on people who have

[2:02:36] no knowledge that it's even going on. And I'm looking over my shoulder all the

[2:02:40] time. I'm not doing anything wrong, but it's just creepy to be constantly

[2:02:46] stalked by your government. So

[2:02:52] I already told you about the seal. If you look at what other juris I think

[2:02:57] this has already been mentioned. I'm trying to actually cut it short because

[2:03:00] everybody's kind of said what I would have said. Um other jurisdictions that

[2:03:04] have had it are already deflocking. Asheville has there's a a a big city in

[2:03:11] uh Arizona. I think Tempe, Arizona has has done it. Florida of all places,

[2:03:16] California of all. when Florida when California and Florida and Texas agree,

[2:03:21] we maybe need to be taking a look at this because this is not one side. This

[2:03:26] is bipartisan. This isn't even this is tripartisan. This is the people do not

[2:03:30] want to be surveiled 247. Period. We want to have our liberty and we want

[2:03:37] to feel safe and this does not do that. This is just the opposite. Thank you.

[2:03:45] [applause]

[2:03:49] Yes, sir.

[2:04:00] [clears throat] >> Morning, commissioners.

[2:04:03] » Good morning. >> Thank you for hearing me today.

[2:04:05] » What's your name? >> Uh, my name is

[2:04:10] Sorry. One second here. I do know my name. Uh, good morning, commissioners.

[2:04:16] My name is Anderson Weeks, and I'm a proud lifelong resident of Dair County.

[2:04:21] The Outer Ranks has always felt like a sanctuary to me, somewhere slightly

[2:04:24] separated from the rest of the world's craziness. Whenever I was away from

[2:04:28] home, a feeling of comfort and relief washed over me as I crossed the bridge

[2:04:33] to return. [sighs] I think a lot of people in this room know the feeling I'm

[2:04:37] talking about. My mom says that the feeling hits her when she smells the

[2:04:41] salt air. I always believed that no matter how

[2:04:44] much it changed here, as long as we didn't get washed into the ocean, I

[2:04:48] would still feel that magic as I crossed the bridge. [clears throat] Excuse me,

[2:04:51] I'm getting a little sick here. [snorts] Um, I always believed this, that is,

[2:04:57] until I drove across the bridge and was greeted by a Flock automated license

[2:05:00] plate reader. I started looking into ALPRs when I

[2:05:05] realized I was boxed in by them. I, along with most Southern Shores

[2:05:08] residents, cannot drive to one single store, restaurant, healthc care

[2:05:12] provider, or school without passing at least one ALPR.

[2:05:17] At first, I didn't know what they were. My wife and I would discuss them on the

[2:05:21] drive home. Surely they're temporary, maybe to study traffic.

[2:05:26] We thought there's no way they set up all these cameras without engaging the

[2:05:31] public, right? Wrong.

[2:05:36] I quickly learned that every ALPR I passed stored a photo of my vehicle in a

[2:05:40] database. Not my local police department's database, but a nationwide

[2:05:43] database managed by a private for-profit company. For Flock, more profit means

[2:05:48] more surveillance indefinitely. This indicates that we have no reason to

[2:05:52] believe that this will slow down anytime soon. If we don't act, we should

[2:05:57] we should expect to see more surveillance continuing to be

[2:06:00] normalized, which means more cameras along our roads and maybe some of

[2:06:04] Flock's new quote alpha drones, which some law American law enforcement

[2:06:09] agencies have already begun using. >> We have a presentation coming up shortly

[2:06:15] in support of AOPRs. I appreciate that our presenters and most of the police

[2:06:18] officers who advocate for Flock are good people. They likely support AOPRs

[2:06:23] because in their daily life in law enforcement, they see the good

[2:06:26] outweighing the bad. However, I respectfully ask these

[2:06:30] officers along with everyone else to consider deeply the cost that could come

[2:06:34] along with our new found surveillance state as it continues to grow. The slide

[2:06:39] deck, which is available on the county website, appears to be created by Flock

[2:06:42] for North Carolina law enforcement. I saw some misleading statements in it, so

[2:06:46] I would like to proactively discuss them now.

[2:06:49] First, the slides state that AOPRs only capture a point in time. They don't

[2:06:53] track vehicles continuously. What this means is they don't track you every step

[2:06:57] of the way between one camera and the next. However, the density of these

[2:07:01] cameras does enable effectively continuous tracking. As soon as you pass

[2:07:06] two of them on a single drive, it's clear

[2:07:10] your travel can be mapped by the time you pass them um and the distance the

[2:07:17] distance of time between the photos. Therefore, you've effectively been

[2:07:20] tracked continuously. Second, the slides state that ALPRs

[2:07:24] don't track people or show police where people go and they do not allow for the

[2:07:27] search of people. The Kill Hills Police said something similar at the council

[2:07:32] meeting a couple weeks ago. ALPRs track license plates, not people. I don't know

[2:07:37] about everyone else here, but my license plate does not drive itself down the

[2:07:40] road. It's incredibly rare for anyone else to drive my car. Therefore, by

[2:07:45] tracking my license plate and allowing law enforcement to search for it, Flock

[2:07:49] has tracked me, a person, and Flock has enabled others to search for me, a

[2:07:54] person, contrary to what the slides would tell you. They also state that

[2:07:58] nothing permits Flock to sell customer data. This is technically true. They

[2:08:01] don't directly sell the customer data. We technically own it. However, they do

[2:08:07] reserve the rights to share it and they do sell access to the data. Every time

[2:08:12] law enforcement signs a contract, opting into the national data sharing, they are

[2:08:16] effectively paying not just for their cameras, but for Flock's broader

[2:08:20] database. Just yesterday, the New York Times podcast, The Daily, said, quote,

[2:08:24] "I asked Flock CEO Garrett Langley about their data sharing, and he said the mass

[2:08:29] majority of their customers opt in for the national network. Like, that is

[2:08:34] what's appealing, that you have eyes on the road everywhere, not just in your

[2:08:37] community, but in your whole state and in your whole country." End quote.

[2:08:45] Flock knows that they are effectively selling the data, but they intentionally

[2:08:49] provide training and marketing like the slides we're about to see in order to

[2:08:53] mislead us into thinking otherwise. So, Flock and Can I go like a minute

[2:08:59] over this? I'll be quick. Flock and law enforcement tell us that

[2:09:06] ALPRs don't track vehicles continuously, but we know that what they do is

[2:09:09] effectively the same. They say LPRs don't track people or allow for

[2:09:14] searching people, but we know that's exactly what is happening every time a

[2:09:17] vehicle is logged or searched. They say they don't sell ARP ALPR data, but we

[2:09:23] know they do sell access to the data. Knowing how misleading those statements

[2:09:27] are, we must consider one more issue. Flock is actively and intentionally

[2:09:32] providing training, such as these slides coming up, to mislead our law

[2:09:35] enforcement and to train them, likely unknowingly, to mislead us.

[2:09:41] Flock knows that tracking people is unamerican. They know that we will not

[2:09:46] accept it as long as we have a choice. Rather than changing course, they're

[2:09:51] working hard to prevent us from understanding the truth so they can

[2:09:54] continue expanding their business. This intentional misleading of the public

[2:09:59] should demonstrate to all of us why we cannot trust them to safely administer

[2:10:04] this massive surveillance network. [snorts]

[2:10:08] » Thank you, [clears throat] Mr. Weeks. I humbly ask that all Dair County

[2:10:12] commissioners act on behalf of your constituents in any way you can to

[2:10:16] remove flock alprs completely from our county. Thank you.

[2:10:21] [applause] >> Other public comment here this morning.

[2:10:26] » Yes, ma'am.

[2:10:32] » Good morning and thank you all for your service to this community and thank you

[2:10:35] for listening to us today. I am um on the deflock dare. I am not a fan. I'm a

[2:10:42] res Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Rachel Bradley um from Kittyhawk, North Carolina. Um I'm

[2:10:48] completely opposed. I was on my way yesterday to take my grandkid or to pick

[2:10:52] my grandkids up from school um yesterday afternoon and I passed camera after

[2:10:57] camera. I then left from the Kittyhawk Elementary School and drove to Food

[2:11:01] Line. And as I turned there by downtown Bank to go into Food Line, there's four

[2:11:06] of them right there. Four cameras. And when I say right there, I mean from me

[2:11:11] to the door, there was the two. Just past that door, there was two more. So

[2:11:16] in between Town Bank and Food Line turnin, four cameras.

[2:11:23] It's nonsense. And people are tired of being watched. I am tired of being

[2:11:27] watched. I'm tired of going out my door, walking down the road to the skate park

[2:11:32] with my grandkids and being on camera. It's enough. It's

[2:11:37] enough. People don't want it. We need to deflock there. You need to listen to the

[2:11:42] people of this community and to what our our our I mean, this is our

[2:11:46] constitutional right is not to be mass surveillance. You know, people are so

[2:11:50] worried about these data centers. Everybody's worried about all these data

[2:11:53] centers. Why do you think we need them? We've been running on phones and

[2:11:58] computers and networking for quite some time now with no major huge data

[2:12:04] centers. It's bad enough that we don't even hardly have any farmland left

[2:12:09] anywhere. This that for all the building that goes on and all of that is out of

[2:12:13] control as it is. But enough is enough. And people are sick and tired of being

[2:12:18] walked all over. We're tired of our liberties being taken from us, our

[2:12:23] freedoms being taken from us. That is not what this country was founded on. It

[2:12:28] is not what this country is founded on. It's not what our forefathers died for.

[2:12:33] It's not what the people that made this country

[2:12:38] wanted. And we don't want it either. And we hope that you're taking it seriously.

[2:12:43] And we hope you're going to deflock because enough is enough. And I just

[2:12:48] want to say on a side note, I agree. Those graves being moved over at Mano

[2:12:54] Airport that have been sitting there for hundreds and hundreds of years, the fact

[2:12:57] that that's even on the table is absurd. >> If that was my family members, I would

[2:13:02] fight you tooth and nail. I don't come to a lot of these. I'm not big on

[2:13:06] politics, but I'm very big on my liberty. Very big on my liberty and my

[2:13:12] freedoms. [applause] And props to Sheriff Dowy. I worked with

[2:13:16] him years ago at Village Realy. Years and years ago, I remember him coming in

[2:13:22] every day. The happiest person in the room, the most positive person in the

[2:13:27] room. I have voted for you every year. I was sad to see you leave this year.

[2:13:32] » Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate that. >> And I appreciate your service to this

[2:13:35] community. >> And I mean that wholeheartedly.

[2:13:38] » You're sweet. >> But I hope you take us seriously and I

[2:13:44] thank you for your time. Anybody [applause]

[2:13:49] else like to speak public? >> Yes sir.

[2:14:01] » Good morning sir. >> Good morning. Thank you for the

[2:14:05] opportunity to address this topic with you guys. Um

[2:14:10] my name is Richard Beal by the way. Thank you. Um, everyone here has brought

[2:14:15] up so many points that could be rehashed over and over again about civil

[2:14:20] liberties, civil rights, and how these cameras take that away.

[2:14:26] I can't even begin to explain how much pride [clears throat] I have in this

[2:14:30] country, the people that fought for it, people

[2:14:34] that continue to fight for it. and what they fight for and what they give their

[2:14:38] lives for is our right to come up here and protest what is going on right now.

[2:14:44] This is a free country. It's free because we fight for it and

[2:14:50] it'll stay free because we will continue to fight for it.

[2:14:54] Our police no ill will towards any of the police. They do a fantastic job and

[2:15:01] honestly I think that the money being spent on those cameras would be better

[2:15:04] funded in the community in law enforcement in education infrastructure

[2:15:11] things that could benefit locally. I don't think we need private

[2:15:15] corporations dictating who's a criminal and who's not because they don't know.

[2:15:20] They're going to use software to assume that everyone is a criminal. even your

[2:15:25] mother, your grandmother, your children, your children's children. This is the

[2:15:30] beginning of the stripping away of what makes America America.

[2:15:36] And what I would ask you guys to do is to take into consideration that they say

[2:15:40] these are plate readers. Why are they in places where there's pedestrian traffic?

[2:15:45] Because they do facial recognition. They do all kinds of things that aren't in

[2:15:49] the brochure. They're not transparent with you.

[2:15:54] They're not transparent with us and they're never going to be.

[2:15:59] This is strictly set up for them to make profit at all of our expenses, yours

[2:16:04] included. So, please

[2:16:09] deflock. No action. No more of this mess. Let's

[2:16:14] bring government back to government and not to private corporations.

[2:16:19] Thank you. [applause] Any

[2:16:25] other public comment this morning? Seeing no hands here, is there any

[2:16:29] public comment in Bucks?

[2:16:33] » Any public comment from >> Amla Lacader,

[2:16:42] » welcome everyone. >> Thank you. Um, my name is Pamela Lacader

[2:16:48] and I am the new chair of the Frisco Civic Association

[2:16:53] and we are pleased to announce that we received our 501c3 status last month. We

[2:17:00] look forward to working with the commissioners, local businesses, county

[2:17:05] officials, and all other community organizations

[2:17:10] to address the needs and opportunities in our community. We also would like to

[2:17:16] thank all those who've supported us on this journey to establish the Frisco

[2:17:23] Civic Association this year. Thank you very much.

[2:17:28] » Thank you, Miss Lester. >> Any other public comment from Buckton?

[2:17:33] » No further comment. >> That Mr. Chairman, we close the public

[2:17:37] comment. >> All right, county manager, we're going

[2:17:39] to recess for 10 minutes.

[2:17:47] because of the length of the uh HR1 and and state budget impacts in Dair County,

[2:17:54] item five was going to be a lengthy presentation. And out of respect for

[2:17:59] those who made public comment this morning, I've asked the sheriff to uh

[2:18:04] come forward and we'll reverse item five and six so that we can handle the uh his

[2:18:09] presentation at this time.

[2:18:22] Good morning once again. Um, with me is Tyler Daddy. Uh, and he will be

[2:18:27] answering your questions because he is one of the one that has done most of the

[2:18:30] work with this system. Um, but I'm going to turn around just for a second and

[2:18:34] thank a couple of y'all. Thank you very much. I do not remember you. I apologize

[2:18:39] for that. But I do remember I know exactly where you and why we did know

[2:18:42] each other and I thank you for that >> and you too ma'am. It means a lot. And

[2:18:47] it also means a lot to me to think that uh you know you people talk about law

[2:18:51] enforcement in Dair County like you do and I'd like to think that is because of

[2:18:54] some of the work that we have done over the last 16 years and all the ones that

[2:18:58] were before me that were doing that. We do have a great sheriff's office. We

[2:19:02] have great local law enforcement and we do a very good job. I think I we're not

[2:19:07] perfect and we will never be. I assure you that. But thank you for coming and

[2:19:12] that's what this country is made of and if we don't adhere to that then there's

[2:19:17] something wrong with us and we surely are lost. Um so we're just going all we

[2:19:21] are is presenting. We're not you know obviously it's a tool for us and uh and

[2:19:27] we like what you know what we have been able to do with it but we understand

[2:19:31] where you are too. So don't holler at me. And the one lady that said, I don't

[2:19:35] know if she said that the cameras were the devil or I was the devil, but I

[2:19:38] promise you I am not the devil, >> but I can be really, really ugly if I

[2:19:42] have to [clears throat] be. So, we'll go from there. Thank you, Mr. Wood. My

[2:19:46] apologies. >> Um, and this is just, like I said, I'm

[2:19:50] going to go through it briefly. He'll answer any questions that y'all have.

[2:19:54] Okay? Hopefully, he can answer any and all of them. um automated o excuse me

[2:19:58] automated license plate readers alper under GS20-183

[2:20:04] operated within the statute requirements of North Carolina

[2:20:07] justice officers using this technology to locate missing or endangered persons

[2:20:11] conduct investigations and make arrest they were actually implemented in Dair

[2:20:16] County in 2014 at that time they were called Leonardo's ELSAC operated two

[2:20:21] locations with a total of four cameras until 2023

[2:20:25] in July July, 2023, we begin phase one with flock safety. There were four

[2:20:30] locations, eight cameras. Wright memorial bridge in Kittyhawk, Collington

[2:20:35] Road at Veterans Drive, Highway 64, Mans Harbor Road in Mansour, and Highway 12

[2:20:42] and 1243 in a head. In July of 2025, we went to phase two. Three locations, six

[2:20:50] cameras. Highway 345, Skyo Road, Wanche, Highway 12, Pamelic Co and Harbor Road

[2:20:57] in Avon, Highway 64, 264, Russell Trifford Road, and Patty Lane in Manio.

[2:21:05] Total cameras are 14. >> Excuse me, Sheriff. One of the public

[2:21:09] speakers emphatically stated you have 52 cameras.

[2:21:13] » Now, Mr. Ross, I can tell you that we have 14,

[2:21:17] » but there are local agencies that have just as many cameras as we do. So, that

[2:21:23] would be the answer to that. >> Um, cameras take still shots of

[2:21:27] vehicles, license plates that pass by in their window of view. No video

[2:21:32] recordings are capable with our cameras. Cameras are not capable of facial

[2:21:37] recognition. Data retention period is 30 days. And the total users on our system

[2:21:43] is 70 that have access to it. Users with search capability is 29. The And this

[2:21:51] enables you to have the ability to search license plate or vehicle

[2:21:55] identifiers within the system. The only ones in our system that I in our office

[2:22:00] that can do that are administration, investigation, and patrol supervisors.

[2:22:06] Search requirements, offense type, offense reason, and case number.

[2:22:12] Standard operation of roles, telecommunications, and patrol. We're

[2:22:17] able to log on and observe alerts from hot list. That's NCIC and NCMEC.

[2:22:23] When an alert is received, users required to verify the validity of alert

[2:22:27] prior to enforcement action per policy. investigators and patrol supervisors.

[2:22:33] They are able to search camera systems in accordance with general statute and

[2:22:37] policy. This used to locate missing or endangered persons, conduct

[2:22:41] investigations, and to make arrest. Admin system audits updated daily within

[2:22:47] the system and reviewed monthly by admin. System sharing only

[2:22:52] administrative controls who have access to which cameras and all of the above.

[2:22:58] hot list, NCIC, National Criminal Information Center, and the NCMEC, which

[2:23:04] is the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Over the last 30

[2:23:09] days here, as of 8:28-26, 324,884

[2:23:16] unique vehicles detected, 42 total searches,

[2:23:22] 110 NCIC alerts. And of those alerts, stolen license plate were 36, stolen

[2:23:31] vehicles 35, protection orders 22,

[2:23:36] active warrants 12, gang or suspected terrorist three. Shared networks instate

[2:23:44] we share with 204 and out of state 1,325.

[2:23:49] That's different agencies. >> Who who has access to the

[2:23:54] » You give me one. I got three and if if this doesn't answer your question, just

[2:23:58] hold me up. Okay. Um, shared with us instate 20 Okay.

[2:24:04] 204 instate and 1428 out of state. We share nothing with federal agencies.

[2:24:09] Zero. That's what we did. Information sharing. It allows us to search database

[2:24:14] for our suspect vehicles on their systems. This information is available

[2:24:19] through our transparency portal which is active now.

[2:24:23] Success stories. Uh the murder at Avalon Pier. Witness on scene had partial tag

[2:24:28] and description of the vehicle. With the flop, we were able to identify the

[2:24:32] correct make, model, and license plate. Other law enforcement databases used to

[2:24:36] verify owner and operator. Alerted when the vehicle was coming back into Dair

[2:24:40] County, allowing officers to locate and arrest the suspect.

[2:24:45] Multiple stolen vehicles located. One specific incident out of Washington

[2:24:49] County where a stolen vehicle was stopped. Multiple firearms were

[2:24:52] recovered from the suspects after the vehicle and a foot chase. Death by

[2:24:57] distribution, drug trafficking, lararsenies, wanted persons and missing

[2:25:01] persons have all been we have used the system for that. Able to identify

[2:25:06] vehicle of a male trespassing at Manio Elementary School. And if you remember

[2:25:10] that we we weren't able to know where he went, but we knew where that he didn't

[2:25:16] leave the county, which gave us a pretty good head start to figure out where he

[2:25:20] was. and the fact that he was doing court was a little bit easier to find.

[2:25:23] He was right in our house and we didn't know it. Now, that is

[2:25:28] it in a nutshell. And if you have specific questions, he

[2:25:34] knows a whole lot more than I know and we'll be glad to answer any of them you

[2:25:38] have. Thank you very much. >> All you

[2:25:44] Any questions from those? >> One more time, your name, sir. Sorry. My

[2:25:50] name's Tyler Dowy. >> Hello, Tyler.

[2:25:53] » Hello, >> Tyler. This packet that Block came

[2:25:58] provided us, I'm assuming they provided you all with the same packet.

[2:26:02] » Yes, sir, they did. >> Do you concur with everything in this

[2:26:05] packet? >> I do. It's it is presented by Flock, but

[2:26:08] it was uh all the information that's there is true and factual, and it was

[2:26:12] easier to use their resource than create our own and duplicate the same facts. So

[2:26:16] on the myths and facts page that

[2:26:22] myth let me see if I can find the page about it.

[2:26:26] » Oh we should I'm sorry uh commissioner are we going to go through the slides on

[2:26:31] the presentation? >> We are not that was just handouts for

[2:26:34] you all. >> Oh

[2:26:36] » there was a flock handout. >> So myth ALPRs violate the fourth

[2:26:41] amendment. I don't believe it's the right of a

[2:26:44] private company or enterprise to determine what violates or does not

[2:26:49] violate constitutional law. >> Would you concur with that?

[2:26:53] » I understand what you're saying. At this point in time, they are legal in the

[2:26:57] state and that's why we're operating that according to the general statute

[2:27:01] that the sheriff read off to you. >> I understand. And as you're aware, as we

[2:27:05] convene this day, there's people convening all over the country getting

[2:27:08] rid of these flock cameras as fast, including the entire state of Florida

[2:27:13] was just directed by North Carolina or the Florida Department of Transportation

[2:27:18] to remove all cameras. >> Right. It is a hot topic of concern

[2:27:22] being discussed nationwide. I do agree. >> So you understand from a perspective of

[2:27:28] an American citizen why this might be a concern?

[2:27:32] Giving up any rights that we have is something that nobody's interested in.

[2:27:35] We as law enforcement are just using this as a tool to hopefully make Dair

[2:27:40] County a safer place. >> And I believe y'all do an excellent job.

[2:27:45] But even back in the day, Frank Coahon didn't even carry a firearm, did he?

[2:27:49] » Times have changed. >> He just knock you in the head with a

[2:27:51] stump. >> And the crime rate was pretty low back

[2:27:54] then, too. I understand the framework of flock and

[2:28:02] the overall concept of a safer environment. However, built with privacy

[2:28:08] in mind, I disagree with. I I do believe that they are direct violations of the

[2:28:14] fourth amendment because a camera stationed on a public roadway. See,

[2:28:19] people have to understand constitutional law in the aspect of when you're on that

[2:28:23] highway, you do not have the rights protected. So, them scanning your

[2:28:27] license plate is 100% constitutionally legal. Okay? They are allowed anything

[2:28:32] you can see with the public eye in a public area, they are allowed to enhance

[2:28:36] it using whatever technologies available. However, as we know, those

[2:28:40] flot cameras are stationed on highways. They know undoubtedly scan across the

[2:28:46] road and then observe people's private property, businesses, and other things.

[2:28:51] People have houses up and down the road in Nagad. I'm not so certain that there

[2:28:56] isn't a flock camera overlooking somebody's private property. Now, people

[2:29:00] are protected under the fourth amendment to property rights inside of the

[2:29:04] vehicle. when you're going underneath the vehicle, if it takes a picture and

[2:29:07] can see inside your vehicle, that has also violated your rights because, as

[2:29:11] you know, aware, your vehicle is private property and you do need a warrant to

[2:29:15] search. So, there are some underlying aspects of flock cameras that very well

[2:29:20] could violate the constitutional rights of our constituents.

[2:29:24] » Right. That's the argument's correct. Uh, I think currently they're being

[2:29:27] operated under the plane view doctrine because they are on a public roadway

[2:29:31] » and I'm aware of that. You know, these cameras, the 14 that we own, do the job

[2:29:37] that we can't afford to put deputies at these at these points where these

[2:29:41] cameras are to monitor traffic. And they do so, alerting us of when, you know,

[2:29:46] people with warrants or stolen cars or all the other hot list hits that you

[2:29:50] were made aware of are entering the county.

[2:29:53] » I understand. But thou without sin shall cast the first stone. Obviously, I

[2:29:58] believe our sheriff's department here is one of the best in the entire nation.

[2:30:01] Thank you very much. >> However, I do not believe that law

[2:30:05] enforcement are beyond scrutiny. And I also believe that there has been misuse

[2:30:09] of this program throughout the country and the nation by law enforcement. But

[2:30:14] » Mr. Creek, we're not arguing that fact at all.

[2:30:17] » We don't have a penny in a fight. >> This is your this is that's why we're

[2:30:21] here. We're answering questions to you. It's not an opinion from us as to

[2:30:25] whether we should keep them or not. That's apparently your job because

[2:30:28] that's why we're here. That's why these people are here. So, we can't answer

[2:30:33] those questions and make it only we're thing we're following is the law. That's

[2:30:37] what we do. That's the reason we put them up. The court's going to make a

[2:30:40] decision on whether it's legal or not legal. I guarantee you that. And it

[2:30:44] ain't going to be long before they do it. I wish they had done it. It been

[2:30:47] nice if they'd have done it today. We have no problem when they do that. We

[2:30:51] will certainly take them down. If you vote

[2:30:53] » to take them down today, they'll come down just that quick. Have all the

[2:30:58] respect. That's why you have your job. That's why we have our job. We do

[2:31:02] exactly what you set you set the rules for us, you know, and if it's against

[2:31:06] the if it's if it's against the state law or federal law, it makes a

[2:31:10] difference. But if that's what you're going to do, that's fine. We don't have

[2:31:12] a problem. But we're not here standing up saying we're just telling you what

[2:31:16] what they do and why they do good for us. Now, with the bad things that come

[2:31:20] along with that that you know, all these people have talked about, you know, some

[2:31:24] of that may be factual with what they think and some of it may not be, but we

[2:31:27] don't know. But the court will make a decision on that. I guarantee you.

[2:31:31] » But it's not us. Okay? It's not us against them or us against you. We're

[2:31:35] all in this together, boss man. And that's what we're trying to do. Okay.

[2:31:39] So, you know, it's not our opinion. We're not trying to make it an opinion

[2:31:42] of ours. >> So, we're not trying to bring it down to

[2:31:44] that point. You know what I mean? >> Excellent.

[2:31:46] » Yes, sir. >> Good. So, uh, excuse me. Go ahead.

[2:31:50] » Just real quick. >> Yes, sir.

[2:31:51] » Uh, both of you can answer this. I'd like to hear from both. So,

[2:31:55] professionally, you're of the opinion that we need these and they serve a

[2:32:00] great purpose. >> They serve a purpose and I can I told

[2:32:03] you what they had done here. >> Yeah.

[2:32:06] » You know, in a in the country, they have done a lot of other things. You know,

[2:32:09] » we've had no bad results from what we have done here. You know, so they work

[2:32:15] for us and they're legal. But if you make it illegal or don't want them,

[2:32:19] that's that's you. You do what you need to do. Both of you are of the

[2:32:24] professional opinion that we should have them.

[2:32:27] » Yeah. I can tell you that they have tremendously helped us as far as the law

[2:32:30] enforcement use that we have. For sure. >> Okay. Thank you.

[2:32:36] » Uh, Commissioner Ce, were you finished? >> I am finished. And I just want to

[2:32:41] reiterate how much I respect Mr. Dowy and their entire department. I think

[2:32:45] they do an excellent job. >> Thank you, Commissioner

[2:32:48] » Tyler. I got a couple of questions that try to not from Well, not as much so for

[2:32:54] myself as is for the public. Some of the questions they ask.

[2:32:58] » Yes, sir. >> Um, so we have 14 cameras.

[2:33:02] » Yes, sir. >> Are they the Something's been said at

[2:33:06] least or they were like 3,500 bucks a piece.

[2:33:11] Is that right? >> They're $3,000 a piece.

[2:33:14] » All right. So, so it's even less now than what I, you know, somebody stated

[2:33:19] we're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be spent um more

[2:33:25] efficiently somewhere else. And we have our board approves the budget uh from

[2:33:32] different department heads and this was a request from the sheriff. So 14

[2:33:38] cameras at three grand is not several hundred,000. I mean, you do the math.

[2:33:43] Yes sir. >> It's less than

[2:33:46] » um >> what 33 42

[2:33:50] » 4,200 bucks I mean 42,000 >> right roughly. Yes sir.

[2:33:54] » So that that will um um certainly answer that question for the person that asked

[2:34:00] that. Do you have any idea Sheriff or Tyler

[2:34:05] what percentage of drop in crime we've seen since implemented in 2014? I don't

[2:34:12] think we'd be able to put it to a percentage. Um,

[2:34:17] we have been able to capture vehicles, you know, wanted suspects, stolen

[2:34:21] vehicles, stolen plates. The sheriff read off to you the NCIC alerts, and

[2:34:28] it is under a 30-day period, but just in that amount of time where you're able to

[2:34:32] see stolen license plate alerts were 36, stolen vehicle alerts were 35, vehicles

[2:34:38] whose registered owners had active warrants were 12. That doesn't

[2:34:42] necessarily mean that uh we had 35 stolen vehicles individuals

[2:34:47] come into the county. It just means that that same vehicle or multiple stolen

[2:34:52] vehicles crossed the path of at least one or more of these flot cameras during

[2:34:57] its time in Dair County. But that's information that we wouldn't be able to

[2:35:02] know unless an officer was riding behind that vehicle, entering the tag on its

[2:35:07] own, and then being alerted that it was stolen.

[2:35:10] I got it. Um Doug, you mentioned, you know, back in

[2:35:16] 2014 there were four cameras installed >> and then you mentioned uh 2025

[2:35:23] there was six additional >> plus 2023. Three segments.

[2:35:27] » Yes. Three segments. >> 14 23 25.

[2:35:32] » Yes sir, that's correct. 2014 total of 14. Yes, sir.

[2:35:36] » Can you can [clears throat] you tell me those strategic locations again? And

[2:35:40] they're not. One lady mentioned there's an intersection and this is not this is

[2:35:46] not an unincorporated there. It's in Kittyhawk.

[2:35:49] » Okay. Four. She was talking about Southern Southern Shores. There's four

[2:35:52] cameras. >> We don't have four cameras on top of

[2:35:56] each other anywhere. Is that correct? >> No. It's the only place we'd have a a

[2:35:59] two camera, you know, two different C. Now, I can't that they may in Southern

[2:36:03] Shores. >> No, I understand that. I'm talking about

[2:36:05] Derek. >> No, sir. You have two

[2:36:07] » 14 cameras >> to lead to to read what comes into the

[2:36:10] county. The dual lanes there are two cameras like that what's coming in and

[2:36:14] going out. So that's >> what 40. So

[2:36:17] » at every location that we have we have cameras that cover the opposite lanes of

[2:36:21] travel. >> Got it.

[2:36:22] » So so both both lanes are covered. So, the towns that have these other flock

[2:36:31] cameras, are they're in sync with our cameras? As

[2:36:35] one gentleman said, you if you'll show up on our camera and you maybe go a mile

[2:36:40] or so down the road and it'll show up on them. Are they linked like that?

[2:36:45] » We do share permissions where the other towns can access our cameras and us the

[2:36:50] same. >> Okay. All right.

[2:36:52] Um I I may have some more questions, but

[2:36:56] it's all I have right now. Okay, Commissioner Ross.

[2:36:59] » Yes, I just thanks guys. This is really really helpful stuff, especially the

[2:37:03] statistics obviously very good. Uh 29 um personnel, Sheriff, you you'd stated

[2:37:12] have search capability. Um, have any of those 29

[2:37:17] been identified as misusing that search capability for personal purposes or

[2:37:24] personal gain, personal uses that would have been contrary to policy in the

[2:37:28] sheriff's department? >> No, sir. They have not.

[2:37:31] » Okay. >> And I'm not sure what the outcome will

[2:37:34] be with that. They may not be here anyway at that point.

[2:37:37] » Yes, I understand. Uh, one more time those stats the three 324,000.

[2:37:44] Yeah, the sheriff read them earlier which I found very helpful. I was trying

[2:37:47] to note them down very quickly. >> This is just 324,884

[2:37:52] unique vehicles detected. 42 total searches and 110 NCIC alerts.

[2:38:00] And Tyler, I think just >> Yeah, the plates and the 12.

[2:38:04] » Yes, sir. >> What were the 12

[2:38:06] » 12 active warrants? active warrants. So, as you've characterized it, it is a

[2:38:12] tool in the toolkit that you as law enforcement utilize every day. It's it

[2:38:19] sounds to me like it's more of a tool to secure a quick and prompt arrest of

[2:38:28] potential crimes that are in process or have just recently taken process. And

[2:38:34] you did reference that the shooting at Avon Pier uh the cameras were able to

[2:38:39] assist in apprehending the subject or the uh suspect in in that event.

[2:38:45] » Yes, sir. That's correct. >> Okay.

[2:38:46] » Avalon. >> Okay.

[2:38:49] » Okay. >> Um so you have um I So there's 50

[2:38:53] cameras in all of Dair County. >> We don't know that.

[2:38:56] » I'm not. >> We don't know.

[2:38:59] » That was a live map.

[2:39:02] So there's 14 of them that are yours. The rest of them they belong to the

[2:39:06] municipalities. Correct. So I'm I'm concerned with unincorporated deer

[2:39:09] because that's what we have control over.

[2:39:11] » Understand? Yes ma'am. >> Um so

[2:39:14] of those 14 when you got well and you said you share

[2:39:19] information with the municipalities. What other organizations do you share

[2:39:24] that information with? Are you sharing it with federal authorities? Are you

[2:39:26] sharing it with >> We just told you we don't share anything

[2:39:29] with federal authorities at all. And >> but when you so when you get that

[2:39:33] information you put do you put it into a database where

[2:39:36] » it does that >> right? So the cameras take a picture and

[2:39:40] then that picture for whoever that we decide to share with which um is on here

[2:39:45] as well. Right. We share with 204 agencies within the state and 1,325

[2:39:51] out of state agencies. So essentially that they do have access

[2:39:56] to the if if they have a particular suspect vehicle that they're looking for

[2:40:02] and they do a search query for a nationwide cameras and we share with

[2:40:07] them then if that vehicle crossed the path of one of our cameras, it would

[2:40:12] alert them that their suspect vehicle is crossing one of our cameras.

[2:40:17] » Well, that means there's over 1500 other organizations, state and federal, that

[2:40:21] have access. >> Not federal. Yes.

[2:40:24] » Right. No federal federal. >> Oh, you said 204

[2:40:28] » 204 within the state and then 1325 out of state. So that's the surrounding

[2:40:33] states. >> Okay. Surrounding states,

[2:40:34] » state agencies and other municipalities. >> I understand.

[2:40:42] » Are they all government agencies? >> Yes.

[2:40:50] when you um are looking at this, who audits the system? Do you have someone

[2:40:54] that um and are we like how is it monitored and audited?

[2:41:01] Right. For the auditing purposes, how much information is allowed to go back

[2:41:05] out to the public as far as how you're doing that

[2:41:08] » to the public? It's it's a sensitive information because it's all criminal

[2:41:12] information that we're using this tool to to investigate. So, as far as what's

[2:41:18] able to be released to the public, not much. Uh, as far as the auditing goes,

[2:41:23] uh, myself, Sergeant Johnson, and then Chief Deputy Daringer are the admin over

[2:41:28] the, um, over our flock account to do run audits on the users that we have

[2:41:35] with the search capabilities.

[2:41:39] » I might have more questions. And by the way, you're doing a very good job.

[2:41:43] » Thank you very much. He he's done he's doing good. Dad, [laughter]

[2:41:48] » anybody else have any questions? >> Okay, I got a couple and these are uh

[2:41:51] questions that have come up from the keyboard warriors.

[2:41:55] » Um, are you interested? >> I don't know what that is, Steve.

[2:41:58] Keyboard warriors. >> The keyboard warriors like on Facebook

[2:42:01] social media. >> Social media Monday morning meetings.

[2:42:05] » Repeat. >> I'm sorry, ma'am.

[2:42:07] » Yes. >> Um,

[2:42:09] » thank you, Steve. >> Is this system

[2:42:13] Are you interested in how many times Jane Doe goes to the grocery store?

[2:42:17] » No, sir. >> Does it flag anytime Jane Doe goes to

[2:42:21] the grocery store? >> No, sir.

[2:42:22] » How does it create a flag? >> Excuse me a minute.

[2:42:27] Those of you in the audience have had an opportunity to speak at public comment.

[2:42:33] I would request that you have the same respect that this board had for you when

[2:42:39] you spoke. We don't need to have sly comments from

[2:42:44] the audience right now. We're actually trying to make some serious decisions

[2:42:51] regarding these flock cameras and we would ask that you show us the same

[2:42:56] respect that we showed you. Thank you. >> So to reate my my question, what does it

[2:43:02] take for you to flag a vehicle in the system? They have to be involved in a

[2:43:08] criminal investigation of some sort or be a missing or endangered person.

[2:43:12] » Okay. >> So, when we run if for anything, right?

[2:43:15] Whether it's a license plate, we can search by the specific plate or uh just

[2:43:20] like the sheriff talked about at Avalon Pier that initial day when law

[2:43:24] enforcement responded, a witness on the scene was able to describe a vehicle and

[2:43:28] give a partial tag. Now, the making model that they described when we were

[2:43:32] on scene was incorrect. But through Flock, we were able to run a black sedan

[2:43:38] and with that partial tag and it identified that vehicle. We're able to

[2:43:42] go into different uh law enforcement um avenues, tools, databases to be able to

[2:43:48] run and confirm that tag and then that that led us to our suspect.

[2:43:52] » Okay. Now, if you're looking for a u say an Amber Alert that has the tag number

[2:43:58] on the Amber Alert. >> Yes, sir. Is that presented into the

[2:44:01] system so that when that when that vehicle comes by that camera, it

[2:44:04] automatically alerts you that that vehicle is there?

[2:44:06] » Right. Our users when logged in and our telecommunicators are uh our main source

[2:44:11] of that information. When they receive that alert that a vehicle such as an

[2:44:14] Amber Alert comes into the county or passes by a camera, they're able to

[2:44:18] verify that that tag is indeed matching an Amber Alert and then broadcast that

[2:44:23] information out to the units that are in the area.

[2:44:25] » Okay. And I do know um there's I don't know the exact number, but I know

[2:44:30] there's over 2,000 Amber Alerts that have been tracked and cases have been

[2:44:34] cleared due to the system. >> That I cannot I can't comment on. No,

[2:44:39] sir. >> All right. Um, another uh question that

[2:44:42] was brought up was if you go through one flock camera and then you go through the

[2:44:49] second flock camera and they know the distance and time and say you're going

[2:44:54] say there's a 35 mph speed limit. >> Yes, sir.

[2:44:56] » And you made that track in 40 miles an hour. Is it going to flag you and send

[2:45:01] it send you a speeding ticket? >> No, sir. These cameras are not for speed

[2:45:04] enforcement. Uh, what they don't have that capability,

[2:45:06] » right? Um, is there any way to have this system

[2:45:11] and not share any information with any other agency?

[2:45:14] » Is there any way to have it and not share it? There is. We can we could it

[2:45:19] kind of defeats the purpose of the entire network database because in turn

[2:45:24] we use other databases, the other shared agencies to conduct our criminal

[2:45:28] investigations. >> Right. So that would that would

[2:45:31] our system >> essentially. Yes, sir.

[2:45:33] » Okay. Um,

[2:45:36] and surveillance of our roadways is nothing new. I mean, we've had this this

[2:45:41] system here since 2014, >> right? We've been operating uh the

[2:45:45] Alpers since 2014, >> right? How many DOT traffic cameras are

[2:45:49] in Dair County? >> That I'd be lying if I tried to quote

[2:45:53] you, but I know a great number. >> There's a great number of them, and

[2:45:56] they've been in service uh since the 80s.

[2:46:00] And is that any different from this system?

[2:46:03] I don't understand the operations of the DOT cameras and what they're capable of

[2:46:07] doing. Uh these are unique in that they do take pictures of license plates and

[2:46:12] vehicles that pass by. >> I can identify.

[2:46:14] » Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um also there's in several areas

[2:46:18] um there's a couple in North Carolina. Uh there's quite a few in Virginia that

[2:46:22] are toll booths and there's no actual physical toll booth. You ride through

[2:46:27] it, the camera takes a picture of your license plate, you get a bill in the

[2:46:30] mail. >> Yes, sir. Is that similar to this

[2:46:32] technology? >> No, sir. Or it it could be, but not I I

[2:46:36] am again not proficient in that technology and we do not these cameras

[2:46:39] do not use that technology to >> So if there's no reason for it to flag

[2:46:44] you, you would not know who went through that

[2:46:48] » unless you physically look through it. >> Um, and obviously with the number of

[2:46:52] manpower you have at the sheriff's department doing this, I don't think you

[2:46:55] would have the manpower to track every single vehicle going through there,

[2:46:58] » right? It would be impossible, >> right? That's all I got.

[2:47:03] » Thank you, Vice Chairman, Commissioner Baitman.

[2:47:05] » Tyler, um, I go to Wine Cheese every day, building

[2:47:10] Dare Challenge, sometimes four times a day.

[2:47:15] Can you pull up and tell me exactly when I go there?

[2:47:18] » I can tell you when you cross past of that camera, but I cannot tell you where

[2:47:22] you go from that point on. So anybody in this room can be taking

[2:47:27] that same route and you'll know that they go there every day.

[2:47:31] » If their tag is identified and they're subject of a criminal investigation,

[2:47:35] then I would in turn run that tag and it would pop up that you had crosspass with

[2:47:41] that camera. If for some reason this board uh made

[2:47:46] the decision that we only wanted cameras at the bridges to highlight someone

[2:47:51] coming in and leaving, how would that affect your department?

[2:47:56] » Uh just like any technology, it's not 100% uh perfect. So we have instances

[2:48:00] where vehicles make it past one camera uh whether they're being blocked off by

[2:48:04] traffic uh you know, one lane versus the other and their tags weren't picked up.

[2:48:09] And we do have a lot of traffic that comes into our county. So if it misses

[2:48:14] it at one camera, then we'd like to think that we have uh another catch

[2:48:18] point if the a criminal were to alert um in a different area. So it would not

[2:48:24] make the system as effective if we only put it at those two locations.

[2:48:31] » Thank you. >> I've got one other thing.

[2:48:34] » Yes, sir. In the Supreme Court's ruling in Shatri versus the United States, they

[2:48:40] did say that the geo fencing with the cell phones did impend on his Fourth

[2:48:45] Amendment rights. And therefore, every other case using geo fencing is now

[2:48:50] under direct review every case in the nation. If we continue to use these

[2:48:57] flock cameras and the Supreme Court does in turn rule later on down the road, a

[2:49:03] year or two maybe, that they do violate the Fourth Amendment of the

[2:49:06] Constitution, then every case pending review would be under direct review. And

[2:49:13] if we only have evidence based on using the flot cameras, we could miss out on

[2:49:18] convicting some bad guys. >> No, sir. That's I understand what you're

[2:49:22] saying but that's where our policy and uh our what we direct our users to use

[2:49:28] uh if a if we get an alert then we have to verify that before we take any

[2:49:33] enforcement action. So it is not just immediately that car hits a camera and

[2:49:39] we stop it. Law enforcement verifies that that is indeed the tag that's

[2:49:44] displayed on the vehicle. whatever alert that law enforcement was alerted to and

[2:49:48] then the enforcement action takes place. >> Well, you could say the same thing about

[2:49:52] Shatry versus the United States, but it didn't go that way. He ended up getting

[2:49:56] off on his conviction because of the geoencing,

[2:49:59] » right? But the this camera does not have the it's not geoencing per se.

[2:50:02] » Yeah, geo fencing was in that particular case, I read through it was the law

[2:50:08] enforcement agency at that time, they contacted cell phones.

[2:50:13] » Yep. to get a broad range of who was there at that time. That is geo fencing.

[2:50:22] » And that that would be an invasion of privacy for everybody's cell phone that

[2:50:25] was there who was not involved with the situation.

[2:50:29] » Well, these cameras monitor every license plate whether they're involved

[2:50:33] in a criminal thing or not. >> Yeah. But like you saying too, you're

[2:50:37] only looking for the you're not looking you're not reading every individual

[2:50:41] camera to go. I mean every tag that goes through there,

[2:50:44] » right? We It's physically impossible. Yes, sir.

[2:50:46] » Yeah. >> So, I got just one quick like

[2:50:49] procedurally I'm I'm going to do a what if with you sir.

[2:50:51] » So, I'm sitting at home. >> Mary Ellen steals my truck.

[2:50:55] » She drives out of Wes because she's you know and I've reported it stolen.

[2:51:01] » Yes, sir. >> Now, Wes is only one road in, one road

[2:51:04] out. Uh, it's part of the beauty of it. It's also a bad thing. But it's one road

[2:51:08] in, one road out. And she rides by that. Does it does when she rides by and it

[2:51:14] reads my tag? And I've reported it stolen at this point. Does it alert the

[2:51:19] officers on duty? Does it alert the administrators? Does how does that is

[2:51:24] somebody on patrol? Let's say one of your guys is sitting at the uh the

[2:51:28] wedding venue up on the corner. >> Yes, sir.

[2:51:30] » Right. Just past I think the camera. Does does he get an alert and then does

[2:51:35] he pull out and then pull that vehicle over? I know you said there's some time

[2:51:38] involved a lot of times with or or is it a where it's a serious thing like a

[2:51:43] autotheft or if you're looking for a murder? I mean like what is the what is

[2:51:47] the procedural how how do you go about doing that? Just to use your scenario,

[2:51:53] if a deputy is indeed in that spot, he's logged into he or she's logged into

[2:51:57] flock and receives that alert, they in turn know that that vehicle's coming in

[2:52:02] their direction unless it would to turn off before them. Right? So, as soon as

[2:52:06] that vehicle that has the description of the alert that comes past them, they're

[2:52:10] able to observe it physically. They would then get behind that vehicle,

[2:52:14] verify that that was indeed the stolen vehicle, and then conduct enforcement

[2:52:18] action. Yes, sir. >> Okay. I was just wondering procedurally

[2:52:21] how how it would work if you guys are given alerts or if you're in there just

[2:52:24] searching. Um, >> no, that's the that's the distinct

[2:52:27] difference between the 70 users that are able to uh that have accounts with Flock

[2:52:32] and the 29 that >> the 29 can search 70 get alerts

[2:52:36] regardless, >> right? All of our patrol deputies, the

[2:52:38] guy that are working, the guys and girls that are working routine patrol, they're

[2:52:41] logged into the database and our telecommunicators are logged in just to

[2:52:45] receive alerts for specific incidences like that.

[2:52:50] Okay. I have more questions. >> Yes, ma'am.

[2:52:52] » Absolutely. [clears throat] >> Who controls the placement of the

[2:52:55] cameras? Who decides where they go? >> We as an agency decided where to place

[2:53:00] them. >> Okay. Um

[2:53:03] and someone mentioned I heard someone

[2:53:08] mention Palunteer, which I quickly looked up is a software company because

[2:53:13] I never heard of it. >> Is that the software that's being used

[2:53:16] for these cameras? These guys might would know that better than I do, right?

[2:53:21] We we pay for flock safety. It is a vendor. We have no allegiance to that

[2:53:26] vendor whatsoever. Uh are they using that technology that's

[2:53:31] basically big brother and everybody's concerned? They [clears throat] may be.

[2:53:35] I'm not going to say that they're not, but I can tell you that they don't have

[2:53:39] access to the information that's in our cameras. It takes a law enforcement

[2:53:43] officer to be able to have access to these cameras. So even the salesman's

[2:53:48] that that came in to brief us on the system, they can't see any of our what

[2:53:54] our cameras are producing. >> So if you But do you have to do software

[2:53:59] updates? >> The cameras are they automatically do

[2:54:03] updates >> and but you don't you're not sure of

[2:54:06] what software they're using for that? >> No. M as far as I know it's just their

[2:54:10] their flock safety is >> okay.

[2:54:13] » Who's doing the updates? I have one more question and actually this question is

[2:54:17] for Bobby. So if what authority do the commissioners have

[2:54:23] in regulating how these use are used and that would be just for unincorporated

[2:54:30] DARE correct because we would not have any authority over whether Southern

[2:54:33] Shores Police Department allows theirs or Kittyhawk allows theirs or mania or

[2:54:37] whatever. >> That would be correct. So we if we can't

[2:54:41] say we're going to deflock deer county and all of them are gone, it would only

[2:54:45] be the 14 that the sheriff's department is using

[2:54:48] » unincorporated there. >> Okay. I just want to make that

[2:54:51] distinction. >> Let me take it.

[2:54:52] » We're making a decision on the 14. >> Let me take it a step further.

[2:54:58] » We funded these cameras in 2020 2014 in a consent agenda item. Do we in fact

[2:55:07] have the authority to Well, we have the authority to rescend

[2:55:14] the funding for those. I'm sure I'm positive of that. Correct.

[2:55:18] » So, you've got a contract. I don't have it in front of me because I don't know

[2:55:20] what it says right now, but you've got a contract that was approved and then

[2:55:24] after it's approved, it was gone through the process and signed and went out. So,

[2:55:29] and then money was paid >> for that contract.

[2:55:33] » Right. So that contract is in effect until it expires or until if there's

[2:55:37] termination provisions in there until you comply with the termination

[2:55:40] provisions. So in terms of getting money back or those kind of things, I'm not

[2:55:46] sure what we can do there. In terms of turning the camera off and not using it,

[2:55:51] then that has nothing to do with the contract. If you directed that and the

[2:55:56] sheriff did that, then the cameras are off and then it would be between us and

[2:56:02] flock whether we got any of the money back or whether we just had to eat the

[2:56:05] balance of the contract. >> And I and I understand that um perhaps

[2:56:09] maybe you didn't understand the question. Um

[2:56:13] we cut the funding, we terminate whatever

[2:56:18] there is with the contract with the uh person we have the contract with.

[2:56:24] We don't fully manage the sheriff's department's budget.

[2:56:30] » No, sir. >> If we if we did away with those, what's

[2:56:33] to prevent the sheriff from taking looking at other avenues in his

[2:56:39] department to fund those cameras and keep those cameras rolling? So the

[2:56:43] sheriff is a unique department among county departments and the sheriff has

[2:56:49] control over how he operates his pro his department. He can hire and fire whether

[2:56:55] I agree or don't agree, whether you agree and don't agree. Um he has to do

[2:57:00] some things in line with us. He can't spend more money than we give him. But

[2:57:05] within his budget, if he moves money around, he has the authority to change

[2:57:10] his budget within the constraints of what we do other than salaries and

[2:57:16] benefits because he's agreed to be they're a part of our salary and benefit

[2:57:20] plan and so they have to comply with the rules of the salary and benefit plans.

[2:57:24] So the that's a longwinded answer to your question is conceivably if the

[2:57:28] sheriff chose to fund it another way he could stop some other program he's doing

[2:57:34] and direct those funds you know to another place in his budget. The

[2:57:40] departments that we control if you asking me about public works they could

[2:57:44] not do that without my approval first and then depending on what it was and

[2:57:50] how big it was your approval. >> Right. But my point being, we could

[2:57:56] eliminate the funding. We could say defock the cameras and if he chose to

[2:58:01] find other means in his budget to to continue the use of those cameras, he

[2:58:08] could do so. Correct. Ultimately, our our leverage, for lack of a better term,

[2:58:15] with the sheriff's department is funding. If the sheriff department

[2:58:18] doesn't act the way that you believe is

[2:58:22] appropriate, then you have the authority to cut funding, uh it's constitutionally

[2:58:28] you're required to have a sheriff and a deputy and that's it. And so you have

[2:58:32] complete control of the funding beyond that.

[2:58:37] » Are there ordinances or anything like that that could be put in place that we

[2:58:40] could utilize to prevent them from being >> um I don't know the answer to that. I'd

[2:58:46] have to go look. Um I I mean my experience has been through three

[2:58:54] sheriffs and I have met with the incoming sheriff and I would expect that

[2:58:58] to remain is that we would work together and if that was your will then I think

[2:59:02] we would work it out with them. It would be their will. So I I would I wouldn't

[2:59:06] expect that we would find ourselves in that problem.

[2:59:10] » Tyler, >> I can answer that. We're not going to be

[2:59:11] in a fight over that. >> Yeah.

[2:59:13] » You do what you do. We're going to go along what you do. I I can't speak for

[2:59:17] the other sheriff, but two of his men are back there and uh I'm not sure

[2:59:21] they'd want to answer that question for him. I apologize. I should have been

[2:59:23] standing up, but um you know, it is what it is. I no reason for me to go against

[2:59:28] you. U you know, that's that's the way we work. We've worked that way for 16

[2:59:32] years. >> Well, on changing that to tomorrow, the

[2:59:35] next day. I got three months left. You can't run me. So far,

[2:59:38] » I Doug, Doug, I knew the answer to that before I ever asked it, but I needed to

[2:59:44] ask it. >> I understand completely. Yes, sir. And I

[2:59:46] hope you know that would have been my what I said is what I

[2:59:49] » Absolutely. >> Yes, sir.

[2:59:50] » Tyler, I've got a question. So, you've heard the um concerns of the citizens.

[2:59:57] » Yes, sir. >> Um, is there any software out there

[3:00:00] that's less intrusive than what we're using right now?

[3:00:05] We actually use this is the least intrusive as far as this technology

[3:00:10] goes. There are some companies that can track

[3:00:14] many things and uh that's a company that makes profit, right? They create the

[3:00:19] latest and greatest to try and make selling points, but we are at the least

[3:00:24] intrusive measure as far as the Alpert technology goes.

[3:00:28] » And you said they did software updates. uh they could not automatically do a

[3:00:33] software update that that made them more intrusive than what you intended when

[3:00:37] you bought the >> correct. They have to operate within the

[3:00:41] law and they cannot uh review or obtain the data.

[3:00:46] » Okay. Thanks.

[3:00:50] » All right, board. >> I have one last one for Tyler and for

[3:00:53] Sheriff Dowy. One of the public speakers mentioned that in their opinion this was

[3:00:58] an egregious abuse of power and rebellion is absolutely next and she

[3:01:04] andor and I think I'm quoting it or paraphrasing our boys are already with

[3:01:08] sawzols which I didn't know what it was but I've now learned

[3:01:12] » he's not he's obviously not Tim the tool man. [laughter]

[3:01:16] » Uh that's correct and they will be going out and sawing off the polls and the

[3:01:21] cameras. Um, I mean, we're trying to get to the right

[3:01:27] solution here. And I thought that was a bit of a chilling threat to to do

[3:01:33] something like that. And I'm not sure if you guys heard it, but I sure did. And I

[3:01:38] wanted to emphasize the devil. Yes, sir. >> Yeah, that's right. Called you the

[3:01:42] devil. >> Yeah. All right. That's not a question.

[3:01:47] It's a comment that I didn't find very helpful at all.

[3:01:53] All right. Anyone else have any more questions of Tyler or the sheriff or the

[3:01:58] county manager? >> Thank you, Tyler. You did.

[3:02:02] » Thank you. >> Thank you for your time. I appreciate

[3:02:05] » Thank you for your time. And truly, we do respect your opinion. What you say

[3:02:09] will go with us. I promise. Take care.

[3:02:15] Um, >> I need my screen fixed here because I

[3:02:20] want to go to something.

[3:02:23] » [snorts] >> Go back to the agenda.

[3:02:53] Okay, we're uh >> we're uh certainly under u item six,

[3:02:59] flat cameras, and this was an information presentation

[3:03:06] by the sheriff and uh and Tyler Dowy. I'm going to put this out there to the

[3:03:13] board. Is the board prepared to take some action today with respect to this

[3:03:22] presentation and the concern they've heard from our

[3:03:26] citizens? >> Yes.

[3:03:29] » Yes. >> Okay.

[3:03:29] » All right, Michael. Um, floor is yours. >> Uh, do you need a motion or you just

[3:03:36] discussion? You said you're prepared to take action.

[3:03:38] » You said you pretended to take action. I'm looking for whatction.

[3:03:42] » Yeah. E either what whichever way whatever you

[3:03:46] what do you have on >> do you want further discussion? Do you

[3:03:49] want to hear more of my opinion or you want to hear a motion directly?

[3:03:52] » Okay. I'm I'm of the opinion. Um, and this is is my view after uh

[3:03:59] everything that's been brought to my attention, all of the reading I've done,

[3:04:03] all the research I've done um here lately involving this, it's it's a very

[3:04:10] it's definitely something that will be taken care of 100% at a much higher

[3:04:15] level of government than us eventually. I I I feel the Supreme Court's going to

[3:04:19] be forced into ruling on it and I think it's going to be at the top of their

[3:04:22] agenda very very very soon. Um, until then,

[3:04:28] I don't feel it's in the best interest of the public. I don't feel I feel it's

[3:04:33] u intrusive. Uh, I think it it fringes on taking our

[3:04:38] freedom. Uh, and I'm not in favor of it at all. U to the point that I'd be

[3:04:46] willing to make a motion to to remove the cameras. 14

[3:04:52] » 14 the ones that we control as as the Derek County Sheriff's

[3:04:56] Department and uninccorporated there.

[3:05:02] » Okay. Um looking for further comments from the

[3:05:07] board. >> Well, we're probably two years out from

[3:05:10] a North Carolina Supreme Court ruling on these particular cameras. We might be a

[3:05:17] year out on federal ruling on these cameras.

[3:05:22] All that being said, it's a it's a very slippery slope and with numerous

[3:05:30] municipalities, county councils and commissions, and now

[3:05:36] even entire states getting rid of these flop cameras. I believe it'd be an

[3:05:42] opportune time to take I have to respect the values of our

[3:05:50] constituents and this is a bipartisan issue. I mean,

[3:05:55] I've seen the news every day there is prominent Democrats and prominent

[3:05:59] Republicans alike all calling to get rid of these flop cameras. And I believe

[3:06:05] that our Dare County law enforcement did a beyond excellent job before we had

[3:06:13] flot cameras. and I think they'll do a beyond excellent job without them.

[3:06:20] I I just I firmly believe it's a slippery slope and we don't know I know

[3:06:26] what our sheriff's department's going to do with the information. They're going

[3:06:29] to do a good job. What I don't know is what flock safety is going to do with

[3:06:33] the information because they know doubtably they undoubtedly have access

[3:06:37] to all the cameras and all the information. There's no way they don't.

[3:06:42] It's their technology. It's their data centers. Everything is ran through their

[3:06:48] software program. It's it's not an independent county

[3:06:52] software program. It's part of a national network that

[3:06:59] it's a very it it constitutionally I'm not a Supreme Court justice. didn't go

[3:07:05] to law school, but I was able to talk to a superior

[3:07:10] former superior court judge for about four hours this weekend about this

[3:07:14] particular issue knowing it was coming up on our agenda. And like I said, it is

[3:07:20] a slippery slope because of the wide view angles of the cameras. They do

[3:07:24] access into per people's private property that's beside the roadside and

[3:07:29] they do it does >> promote a potential property rights

[3:07:34] issue which is protected under the fourth amendment of the constitution and

[3:07:39] with entire states now getting rid of it. I feel like it'd be the safe

[3:07:45] decision to get rid of them now. And if the Supreme Court rules in the future

[3:07:49] that they do not violate the Constitution and that they are

[3:07:55] in no violation of the Fourth Amendment, then maybe at that point in time, I'd be

[3:08:00] open to renewing the contract with a particular ALPR. But until the Supreme

[3:08:05] Court rules on it, obviously we've got a lot of constituents, bipartisan

[3:08:10] constituents from both sides of the aisle, which is very unique.

[3:08:16] Uh I believe it'd be in the best interest of this board to potentially

[3:08:19] take action. Obviously, I value all of your opinions as well.

[3:08:24] » Thank you, Commissioner. Anyone else?

[3:08:31] » Yeah, I do. I just have a Yes, sir. Commissioner

[3:08:34] Yeah, we did hear a lot of public comment today. Much of it was um

[3:08:39] recently presented, which I thank you. I'm looking at one gentleman here in the

[3:08:43] front row uh with cohesive arguments. We heard hyperbolic accusations of us

[3:08:49] lining our pockets up here and stalking children and whatnot. Then we heard a

[3:08:55] fact-based u fairly unemotional presentation from

[3:08:59] the sheriff's group that explained what it was, what it wasn't, how it's a tool.

[3:09:05] It's one of many tools that law enforcement uses. And that the one group

[3:09:10] that we didn't hear from because there's only a few of them were the victims that

[3:09:15] might have gotten their car back or gotten the the suspect involved in

[3:09:20] whatever crime they were pursuing because there's not many of them. They

[3:09:23] won't come to the meeting and thump on the rost room here like many of uh you

[3:09:30] all did today. Unfortunately though uh it appears that

[3:09:37] this tool although I believe what the sheriff's told us that has not been

[3:09:41] abused has not been misused has been re very very um restricted is still viewed

[3:09:48] as an egregious overstep by our government.

[3:09:53] And as such, I um I'm kind of with you all that we

[3:09:59] are listening to our constituents. And um I'm prepared to again with Mr.

[3:10:05] Bur, Commissioner Bur uh agreed to and I would think shut off the cameras before

[3:10:11] we take them down because I also agree this is going to go much higher either

[3:10:15] to the state legislature, the US Congress and or the Supreme Court

[3:10:19] because it is a nationwide issue. So, I would make a motion now that we

[3:10:26] effective immediately turn off the cameras, which again does not infringe

[3:10:31] on the contract if I understood, county manager. But it uh

[3:10:36] » the contract all it requires us to do is to pay them the money and we have done

[3:10:41] that. So whether we turn them off, take them down, whatever. Right.

[3:10:45] » The issue would be what happens with >> Okay.

[3:10:48] » Yeah. if we can terminate the contract and it save us money. Now, if the

[3:10:53] contract is a lot >> before we have discussion, there's a

[3:10:56] motion on the floor and I need a second in order to continue the conversation.

[3:11:03] » Is there a second? I'll second it. >> I think there's two though because Mike

[3:11:07] said to remove them and Rob is saying to turn them off.

[3:11:10] » Mike didn't make a motion. >> I didn't hear a motion.

[3:11:13] I said I'd be willing to >> I'm sorry. My bad. There's a motion on

[3:11:16] the floor. [clears throat] >> Commissioner Ross and I've second it.

[3:11:20] Now the floor is back open for discussion.

[3:11:24] Commissioner Karief, >> I'd make a separate motion to

[3:11:29] I guess the proper term would be to request

[3:11:33] that the sheriff's department terminate the contract with Flock Safety.

[3:11:39] » Is that correct? That would be that would be an amendment to the motion. You

[3:11:42] » either have to amend it or rule >> you would have to

[3:11:46] or you would have to ask the maker of the motion to restate that motion to

[3:11:52] that effect. >> Rob, would you be willing to restate

[3:11:56] that motion? >> I need a clarification. Are we paying a

[3:11:58] monthly lease or fee for these cameras or were they a onetime purchase

[3:12:02] acquisition? >> If it's an ongoing lease or fee, then I

[3:12:07] would agree. There's a software license that we're paying

[3:12:10] » that we paid monthly monthly. >> I think we It looks like we paid it.

[3:12:14] » Well, let's let's wait until we get the answer.

[3:12:17] » Do we have an answer? >> Uh

[3:12:20] » oh. >> Comes here comes Here comes Jeff.

[3:12:25] » Good morning, Mr. Mr. Commissioner. >> Come on up so that Yeah.

[3:12:28] » Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Commissioners, Mr. Do you wish comment

[3:12:32] from me? >> We got Can you answer their question?

[3:12:36] » Can you answer the question? I can. Yes, sir.

[3:12:39] » Uh, flock cameras are leased. It is an annual contract

[3:12:46] and it's per camera with one contract of the total 14.

[3:12:52] » When is the contract up? >> Annually.

[3:12:55] » So, we'd have to renew. >> Oh, I I I'd have to pull it. I I don't

[3:12:59] know exactly. >> We've paid the fee. The cameras are up.

[3:13:02] It's paid once annually. Terminating the contract doesn't do anything. It's the

[3:13:07] use of the camera that I heard being expressed. So if the cameras were no

[3:13:11] longer being used, >> so we still have to pay them. We still

[3:13:15] have to pay the money. >> That's what I'm trying to ask for.

[3:13:18] » That's what we're trying to ask. >> If there's an annual contract, the

[3:13:20] annual fee has already been paid. So Flock has their money, releasing the

[3:13:25] cameras. Taking them down would be problematic because we don't we'd have

[3:13:30] to ask them to take them down. Turning them off just means the sheriff doesn't

[3:13:34] use them. Um, but the fee has been paid for the annual thing. If if we either

[3:13:40] had them taken down or removed, they wouldn't be used when the contract

[3:13:44] expired. We wouldn't renew it unless you chose to renew it.

[3:13:48] » I got I got a question. Um, and turn the cameras off and leave them

[3:13:55] on the post.

[3:13:59] I can already feel >> that the public does not trust us.

[3:14:03] » Right. That's why I said take them down. >> That's exactly right.

[3:14:07] » Total transparency. >> Yeah.

[3:14:08] » Total transparency. I say take them down.

[3:14:11] » Yes. >> I agree.

[3:14:12] » Can I say this? We're going to take it down.

[3:14:14] » Leave the camera up. Camera ain't going to be there.

[3:14:16] » Yeah. Exactly. >> Exactly.

[3:14:18] » And then we're looking for it. >> Coming down. You say, we're going to

[3:14:21] take it down. >> Yeah.

[3:14:22] » There we go. >> Because then we would be on the hook for

[3:14:25] the camera. >> All right. U Rod, would you

[3:14:28] » I will modify the motion to remove the cameras.

[3:14:33] as soon as practical, as soon as possible.

[3:14:36] » And as a second, I will second that um amendment to the motion.

[3:14:41] » Floor again once again is open for discussion.

[3:14:45] » No further comment from me. >> Call the vote.

[3:14:48] » Uh well, I'll call the vote, but how soon can we can we can we do this in

[3:14:57] x number of days? Sheriff, >> give me two weeks.

[3:15:01] » Two weeks. Yes, sir. >> All right.

[3:15:03] » And that's not that's just to make sure that we can do it and the company knows

[3:15:07] what we're doing. >> I understand.

[3:15:09] » All right. With that being said, those in favor of the motion, please signify

[3:15:14] by saying I >> I oppose like motion carries unanimous.

[3:15:19] » Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, you you voted to amend the motion. You got to

[3:15:24] now [applause] vote again on the

[3:15:29] » Hold on. Hold on. We voted on the amendment. Now we have to vote.

[3:15:32] » You voted to allow the amendment and now you have to vote on the what's now the

[3:15:37] motion. >> That's right.

[3:15:39] » Um you care to restate that motion for us, Bobby. So the public

[3:15:43] » Well, the motion now as amended is the motion is to remove the flock cameras,

[3:15:47] » right? That's correct. All right. All those in favor of that motion, please

[3:15:52] signify by saying I oppose like sign. Motion carries unanimous.

[3:15:59] » [applause]

[3:16:04] » before you adjourn for lunch. >> Yeah,

[3:16:06] » there's two short items. We could run those two people out of here before

[3:16:09] lunch if you allow that. Number number seven and number 10. So, we want to run

[3:16:14] seven and 10 out of here. Okay. >> I I I agree. Those poor people.

[3:16:18] » We can we can do that. Item seven. >> All right. Um the first one she says is

[3:16:24] five minutes. This is a number seven is a proclamation for smart start month and

[3:16:28] diaper need awareness. And I'll turn that over to you Sarah.

[3:16:32] [clears throat] But before we bring u

[3:16:37] uh Carla and Sarah up here, for those of

[3:16:42] you that spoke this morning concerning the flight cameras,

[3:16:46] I hope and pray that you will be u addressing your concerns with the six

[3:16:53] municipalities in Dare County >> that operate 36 other cameras. Sarah,

[3:17:00] » I believe it's 34. >> Carla, you you guys are up. Ladies are

[3:17:04] up. Excuse me. >> Good afternoon, commissioners.

[3:17:08] » Good afternoon. >> Thank you for the opportunity to be here

[3:17:12] today. Uh, I'm Sarah Samson, the executive director of Children and Youth

[3:17:16] Partnership, and I'm here with Carla Heard, our um, education and evaluation

[3:17:21] program manager. We do have a slideshow that we ask that you put on the screen

[3:17:26] for us, please.

[3:17:30] It's okay. >> It's hard to believe it's September

[3:17:33] already and today is September 1st. Um September is Smart Start Month and we

[3:17:39] wanted to take a moment to share what Smart Start means here in Dair County

[3:17:44] and how we at Children and Youth Partnership are part of that statewide

[3:17:48] effort.

[3:17:51] I would like to start with a short video and gives a little bit of information

[3:17:56] about SmartStart and the difference this network is making for young children and

[3:18:00] families in North Carolina.

[3:18:10] Got

[3:18:14] it. >> Got it.

[3:18:16] » Yeah. Thank you. >> Amen. I couldn't agree more. I couldn't

[3:18:20] agree more.

[3:18:24] » I did not want to go down that road, but

[3:18:43] Okay, sorry.

[3:18:48] Got it.

[3:19:05] » [laughter]

[3:19:26] » I think we're the seventh county in North Carolina to do that.

[3:19:35] Time will tell

[3:19:51] a bad thing. We'll see.

[3:20:07] From your first night home to their first day of school, the Smart Start

[3:20:11] Network is there for families like yours. Whether you're looking for child

[3:20:15] care, parenting support, early learning opportunities or health resources, Smart

[3:20:20] Start connects you to [music] free and local resources. And with local

[3:20:24] partnerships serving every county, help is closer than you think. For [music]

[3:20:28] over 30 years, North Carolina families have trusted SmartStart. Find out why at

[3:20:33] smartstart.org.

[3:20:38] » So, as you just saw, SmartStart is a statewide effort focused on giving young

[3:20:43] children the strong foundation they need to thrive. We at Children and Youth

[3:20:47] Partnership for Dair County are proud to be part of that network as a local Smart

[3:20:51] Start partnership. Here in our community, we bring that mission to life

[3:20:55] by providing programs and services, connections that support young children,

[3:21:00] their families, and our early childhood educators. Some examples include the

[3:21:05] Triple P positive parenting program, which gives parents practical strategies

[3:21:09] and tools for raising confident, healthy children in our Kaleidoscope play

[3:21:16] groups, where young children and their caregivers can learn, play, and build

[3:21:20] connections. and Dolly Parton's Imagination Library, which puts books

[3:21:25] directly in the hands of young children and help foster a love of reading from

[3:21:30] an early age. We also provide resources and support to our childcare providers

[3:21:36] and connect families with services to help them navigate the challenges of

[3:21:40] raising young children. Our mission is to make sure that children, families,

[3:21:45] and educators in our community have what they need to thrive. And when we invest

[3:21:49] in young children and the people who care for them, the whole community

[3:21:53] benefits.

[3:21:58] September is Smart Start Month and we'll kind of wrap up our presentation later

[3:22:01] with that proclamation, but it is a time for us to celebrate all the people that

[3:22:06] are part of this work. That could be early childhood professionals, families,

[3:22:10] community partners, volunteers, and everyone who contributes to the strong

[3:22:15] foundation for young children. this year. We're really excited. We have a

[3:22:19] special event coming up and we invite you to join us on Tuesday, September

[3:22:25] 15th at 10:00 a.m. for a special ribbon cutting ceremony [laughter] and open

[3:22:30] house uh at Children Youth Partnership. We have a ribbon cutting for our new uh

[3:22:36] outdoor learning environment. This new space is a wonderful addition and it's

[3:22:41] going to give children another opportunity to learn, play, and connect

[3:22:45] with it outdoors. This amazing space was made possible

[3:22:50] through the generosity and support of the First Flight Rotary Club and among

[3:22:54] many other community partners, including the Garage Band Charities. And we are

[3:22:59] incredible grateful for the community support that helped us make this vision

[3:23:03] a reality. And following the ribbon cutting at 10, we're going to do an open

[3:23:08] house at our office. Everyone will be welcome to stay and play in the outdoor

[3:23:13] learning environment, check out our playroom, our lending library, and meet

[3:23:18] with our staff to learn more about the programs and services that we provide.

[3:23:23] We would love for you to join us. Parking is limited, and we encourage

[3:23:27] everyone to carpool. Um, and with that, um, while we're celebrating the many

[3:23:33] things and the support that we do provide to children and families in our

[3:23:36] community, there's another important need in our community that we want to

[3:23:40] highlight today. So, I'm going to hand it over to Carla, who will talk about

[3:23:44] diaper need awareness and the work of our diaper bank.

[3:23:48] » Good afternoon, commissioners. Thank you for having us today. As Sarah mentioned,

[3:23:51] I'm here to talk about CYP's diaper bank and diaper need awareness week. So,

[3:23:55] picture this. You're home with your brand new baby doing everything that you

[3:24:00] can to make ends meet and to make sure that baby's needs are met. The diapers

[3:24:05] from your baby shower seem like a great start, but babies have a surprising way

[3:24:08] of going through diapers really quickly. You realize that you're on your last

[3:24:12] package from your baby shower and you don't have it in the budget to be able

[3:24:16] to make another trip to the store. For parents already trying to stretch every

[3:24:20] dollar, something as essential as a clean diaper can become a real source of

[3:24:24] stress for them. And for far too many families, that's a challenge that they

[3:24:27] face on a regular basis. And that's where CYP's diaper bank comes in. Each

[3:24:32] month on the second Tuesday and Wednesday of the month at our office in

[3:24:36] Mano, we hold a diaper pickup for families to be able to come and pick up

[3:24:39] diapers. they can come and pick up two packs of diapers for free to help

[3:24:43] support their diaper need. During just our diaper pickup events over the past

[3:24:48] year, we served 135 families monthly and we had a high of 157 families in just

[3:24:54] one month. So during the past year, we distributed over 3,500 packs of diapers

[3:25:00] to families. That's about 90,000 diaper changes for the better in our community.

[3:25:06] 1,800

[3:25:09] » 3,500 packs of diapers. 1,800. That's not unduplicated. So

[3:25:14] » they some might duplicated. Yeah, that is duplicated. Yes.

[3:25:16] » Okay. Thank god. I was about to We don't have that many. [laughter]

[3:25:19] » 30% of childbearing families are okay. >> We do have new people coming every

[3:25:24] month, but a lot of our families utilize that as a resource on a regular basis.

[3:25:28] Uh but none of this would be possible without our community and their support

[3:25:31] as CYP's diaper bank is a community funded program through the donation of

[3:25:35] diapers and the donation of funds to support the purchase of those diapers.

[3:25:40] So last year you all made a meaningful investment in CYP's diaper bank with a

[3:25:44] generous donation to support the purchase of diapers. And that support

[3:25:48] went a tremendous way helping us to provide approximately [clears throat]

[3:25:52] 75,000 diapers over the past year. And we cannot thank you enough for that

[3:25:56] support last year. As I mentioned before, diaper need

[3:26:00] awareness week is fast approaching, happening on September 14th through the

[3:26:04] 20th. Hold on, I'm ahead of myself. Happening on September 14th through the

[3:26:10] 20th this year, diaper need awareness week is a time to raise awareness about

[3:26:14] diaper need within the community as well as to encourage community involvement

[3:26:18] around diaper need. So during diaper need awareness week, we'll have several

[3:26:22] drop off points for diapers within the community. And those drop off points are

[3:26:26] listed here on the slide. And as we spread the word about diaper need across

[3:26:30] the community, we appreciate your willingness to proclaim the week of

[3:26:34] September 14th through the 20th as diaper needed awareness week as well as

[3:26:37] the month of September as Smart Start Month in Dare County. And we welcome any

[3:26:42] questions you may have. >> All right. Does anybody have any

[3:26:46] questions [laughter] of uh Sarah or Carl?

[3:26:50] » I I have a just a quick question. So, um so

[3:26:54] » that's diaper need awareness week during that week and everybody's going to be

[3:26:58] encouraged to come out and give. But let's say like throughout the course of

[3:27:02] the year um because I'm a lifelong bachelor. I wouldn't know a first thing

[3:27:06] about a diaper. >> What would [laughter]

[3:27:09] what would somebody do if they were so inclined to come out and give? Would

[3:27:12] they give a monetary donation? Would they buy the diapers and drop them by a

[3:27:16] location throughout the course of the year? How do you accept those donations?

[3:27:19] » We have both of those things happening. A lot of time we have a place on our

[3:27:22] website where people are able to go and give on our website specifically to

[3:27:25] support CYP's diaper bank or we've had people that drop off um I don't know if

[3:27:30] library people are here but on a regular basis we have a patron that comes to

[3:27:34] drop off diapers at the library and they then get them to us. They can drop them

[3:27:37] off to us at our office. Um and then uh business-wise you can hold a diaper

[3:27:43] drive. We actually Nags Head Church just recently held a diaper drive and

[3:27:46] collected over 6,000 diapers for CYP's diaper bank. Um we have a diaper drive

[3:27:51] toolkit on our website to teach people how to do a diaper drive or to give them

[3:27:55] ideas for doing a diaper drive. So we try to support anybody who's interested

[3:27:58] in supporting CYP's diaper bank. >> That's fantastic. Thank you. That's

[3:28:01] exactly what I just in case anybody's watching and they're inclined to to

[3:28:06] give, I want them to make sure they have the the wherewithal and know how to do

[3:28:09] it. >> I appreciate that.

[3:28:10] » All right. I believe we have a proclamation. you'd like for us to uh

[3:28:14] approve. >> County manager, you want to do it? Uh,

[3:28:18] » sure. [laughter] >> Unless you just want to approve it.

[3:28:21] » Let's just approve it. >> Yeah, we can do it. It's a long one.

[3:28:24] » It's a long one. I'll read the last. It says, "You proclaim the month of

[3:28:29] September 26th as Smart Start Month in Dare County and call upon all citizens

[3:28:33] to celebrate and acknowledge the essential role Smart Start plays in

[3:28:36] building thriving communities across our state."

[3:28:38] » Got it. >> Make the motion to adopt.

[3:28:40] » All right. is a motion on the floor by the vice chair to adopt and seconded by

[3:28:44] Commissioner Ross. Any further discussion

[3:28:47] hearing? None. Those in favor of the motion signify by saying I.

[3:28:50] » I. >> Motion carries unanimous. I believe I

[3:28:54] can't remember what was our amount last year we donated.

[3:28:57] » Um last year you donated 15,000. >> That's what I thought.

[3:29:00] » I'll make a motion donate another 15,000 this year.

[3:29:02] » All right. It's a motion on the floor by Vice Chair, seconded by Commissioner

[3:29:06] Ross. Floor is open for discussion. Hearing none. Those in favor signify by

[3:29:13] saying I. >> Suppose sign. Motion carries unanimous.

[3:29:18] » All right. Deliver some diapers, ladies. Proclamation there as well. We proclaim

[3:29:23] the week of September 14th through 20th as diaper need awareness week in Deer

[3:29:28] County. >> All right.

[3:29:29] » Make a motion to approve. >> All right. It's a motion on the floor by

[3:29:31] the vice chair. Seconded by >> Second Commissioner Balance. Any further

[3:29:36] discussion? Hearing none. is in favor signify by saying I

[3:29:40] » post like sign. Motion carries unanimous >> break by one. We've got two things we

[3:29:47] can get done, I think. >> Yeah, absolutely.

[3:29:49] » Well, we can't we we've got >> 45 minutes

[3:29:55] till

[3:29:58] » she said 124. She said,

[3:30:05] » right? Right. Um,

[3:30:09] » we're going after Bobby. >> We'll go. We can Can you How fast can

[3:30:13] you do the CIP? Matt, >> right?

[3:30:17] » So, we'll do number nine, which is the Dair County.

[3:30:19] » Start the timer CIP plan. >> Since the school officials are here,

[3:30:24] » what item we look at? >> Number 10. Number nine.

[3:30:27] » Nine and 10. Can we do both? >> We'll try to do nine and 10 before

[3:30:31] lunch. >> I got it.

[3:30:43] No, make it. >> All right,

[3:30:49] » start the timer now. >> Go. [clears throat]

[3:30:52] » All right, we're going to go through the CIP, the capital improvement plan for

[3:30:55] the schools. This first slide is really just showing you how this is funded. So

[3:31:00] like the county's capital improvement plan, it is funded by a capital

[3:31:06] investment fund. The capital investment fund is funded by our article 42 sales

[3:31:11] tax which is 75% of the funding. Article 40 sales tax which is 20% of the funding

[3:31:18] and the remainder is coming from the lottery because we can request lottery

[3:31:23] draws for debt service payments. That goes into one bucket which is this

[3:31:29] capital improvement plan and then another smaller bucket which is their

[3:31:34] capital outlay which is a basically just a direct payment to the schools for

[3:31:38] their maintenance and operations. This [clears throat] slide is just

[3:31:43] visually showing you the distribution of these the capital improvement plan which

[3:31:48] includes 50 projects and $ 38 million over the next five years.

[3:31:55] » [clears throat] >> the I'm going to get to a slide that has

[3:31:59] some highlights, so I'm not going to go through that.

[3:32:02] [clears throat] This is showing you the funding. So, how we're paying for that,

[3:32:06] it's the the capital improvement plan, the 38 million plus the

[3:32:12] um local capital outlay in over that five years is roughly 3.8 million

[3:32:18] [clears throat] totaling $42 million. So payo and capital outlay is just money

[3:32:24] coming directly from the fund going to those projects or to the school and the

[3:32:30] remainder is coming from debt proceeds. So we're going to issue debt for the

[3:32:34] projects in the plan over the five years of that 26,850,000.

[3:32:42] So this slide is just showing you how we got this to balance. So

[3:32:49] the abbreviated version is we had additions to last year's balance plan of

[3:32:54] 4.7 million. 1.4 million of that though was just the impact of the sales tax

[3:32:59] allocation. You'll remember when we did the budget that because the towns raised

[3:33:05] their taxes, the allocation to the county went down. Well, because the

[3:33:11] school's allocation is a piece of that allocation, it it also went down

[3:33:15] proportionally. Wait, you mean the towns raised taxes and the county did not?

[3:33:22] » That's right. >> Did we get that in the press very? Thank

[3:33:24] you. >> So, how we made up that difference is we

[3:33:29] are increasing the debt, the borrowing for the fieldhouse, which we did at the

[3:33:33] last meeting. We removed the Cape Padis Elementary School expansion, which was

[3:33:38] tied to a COVID bump in enrollment, which has since gone back down. And so

[3:33:44] 640,000 it was that debt service. We're going to take more money from the

[3:33:48] lottery and then we shifted out the timing of the projects. So really

[3:33:55] quickly, these are some highlights. Um so in 27 we have the tennis court

[3:34:00] overhaul which has a grant component for funding. We're replacing two a chiller

[3:34:06] and a roof out on Cape Padis. And then in 28, we're going to start the major

[3:34:11] capital projects starting with the Cape Pad Secondary School kitchen rebuild.

[3:34:16] There is a possibility of applying for a grant for that, which we will do and

[3:34:21] hopefully come back with funding it in a different way, but today it's within

[3:34:25] this plan and it works. There's a $1 million storage building at Run Hill

[3:34:31] and 28. And then in 29, we have the auxiliary gym and the addition on First

[3:34:36] Flight High School. And we

[3:34:39] » do we do we know what >> what are we storing?

[3:34:44] » What are we storing? >> So today the schools pay for rented

[3:34:49] storage and what this will do is eliminate all of those rented storage.

[3:34:53] And >> is that good? Okay. Um [clears throat]

[3:35:02] » this doesn't count towards my seven minutes.

[3:35:04] » No, it doesn't. I'll talk fast. We're required to withho to hold um certain

[3:35:09] documentation for years. Um and we've got boxes and filing cabinets and we

[3:35:16] rent storage buildings to keep all that in u because it's got to be climate

[3:35:19] controlled and so by law we have to maintain those documents.

[3:35:22] » So we haven't looked at putting them on micro fish or something like that.

[3:35:28] » Um yes sir we have. And the >> that's more expensive.

[3:35:32] » The manpower hours would be tremendous. >> Got it. Um there's there's rooms and

[3:35:36] rooms of this these documents.

[3:35:45] » Okay. So in 29 we'll start the first flight elementary school and middle

[3:35:50] school modernization projects which are two-year projects within this plan. And

[3:35:55] then subsequent to that we have chiller replacements, roof and track re

[3:36:01] resurfacing. So, these are the large projects within that 38 plus million

[3:36:06] dollar five-year plan. >> Matt, we're going to issue one debt

[3:36:09] issuance at the beginning of this for the 27 projects and all of them. Are we

[3:36:14] going to then carry that or is this going to be an installment loan?

[3:36:17] » There's going to be two debt issuances within this plan.

[3:36:21] » All right. Good. I was worried we're going to sit on too much cash and paying

[3:36:24] debt service on >> No, that's great point. And actually

[3:36:27] it's three because the we're going to do the fieldhouse as part of our public

[3:36:31] works issuance, right? >> And then we'll do this in 28, calendar

[3:36:35] year 28 and calendar year 29. >> And I lost my slides. All right, there

[3:36:41] we go. This is just the assumptions within the model, which is consistent

[3:36:45] with the debt issuance assumptions in the county's capital improvement plan.

[3:36:50] um we are assuming a 3% annual growth in that sales tax which is that revenue

[3:36:55] that's funding this and then actually NCDPI gives us a projection for that

[3:37:01] lottery fund.

[3:37:04] Unlike the county plan there is no coverage. So the county plan has a

[3:37:11] coverage ratio relative to debt service. The school's model works that the school

[3:37:15] has to have enough resources to fund this plan. And so this last slide is

[3:37:21] showing you that and we look at their resources as both the fund balance of

[3:37:26] that restricted fund that came from the sales tax and additionally the lottery

[3:37:32] fund that the state holds that we can request draw downs from for debt

[3:37:36] payments. So this is just showing you that over this 10 years, which is double

[3:37:41] the CIP term, that this plan works within the capital investment fund and

[3:37:47] the school can afford it. And if that feels good, then what we're

[3:37:54] going to ask you to do is approve it and the related budget amendment um that

[3:37:59] will allow us to fund it. Let me add one thing just I know that you all are aware

[3:38:04] but to make everyone else aware these funds are designated funds for capital

[3:38:09] purposes and so this capital plan is a plan that's been put together by the

[3:38:13] school board not by us and Matt and Rashad have worked hard with Ian and

[3:38:18] Steve and his staff to make it work within those resources. The school can't

[3:38:23] use these resources to pay teachers, give raises, do anything else except

[3:38:27] build stuff with. And so that's why we have a finite amount of money and

[3:38:31] they've managed to to make their needs fit within that fund. And so for anyone

[3:38:37] who would question why they're spending the money here rather than somewhere

[3:38:40] else, it's because they don't have other choices. So

[3:38:46] » I'll make a motion to approve the recommended DCSCIP plan and adopt the

[3:38:50] related capital project ordinance. >> Second.

[3:38:52] » There's a motion on the floor by Commissioner Balance. It's been seconded

[3:38:55] by Commissioner Burus. The floor is open for discussion.

[3:39:00] Hearing none, those in favor signify by saying I. I.

[3:39:03] » I oppose like sign. Motion carries. >> Thank you,

[3:39:06] » Mr. Chair. Real quickly on number 10, I'm I'm going to try it and you come in

[3:39:10] and fix it if I mess it up. Sheila, um there there's been a [clears throat]

[3:39:15] request for a school nurse at the early college. Um what we have is we have a

[3:39:20] grant that would be available to pay for it for this year. So no new money in

[3:39:24] this budget is needed to do that. However, once you put it in there, then

[3:39:29] you've created a position and next year when we do the budget, you're going to

[3:39:33] have to fund it. And so we don't like to come in and do a grantf funded position

[3:39:37] that's going to create recurring costs without you knowing about it. And so we

[3:39:43] talked about this. >> We've talked about this. And so this is

[3:39:46] one of those things where this grant will pay for it for this year, but

[3:39:49] there'll then be a recurring cost for that nurse that we have to deal with

[3:39:53] » in future years. And if you're satisfied with that arrangement, then you would

[3:39:56] approve this today and we can move forward with it.

[3:39:59] » Pleasure of the board. >> I'd make a motion we approve. We need

[3:40:02] nurses in the school. >> That was going to be 300 students in

[3:40:05] that school. >> Well, hang on.

[3:40:07] » The at the at the final at the end. >> Get a second.

[3:40:12] » Yeah, we got a second. Nata floor is open for discussion. Commissioner Ross,

[3:40:16] » how many students are in college today? >> 100.

[3:40:21] » Oh, over 100. >> Yeah. All right.

[3:40:22] » There'll be another one. Another class coming in. There'll be another class

[3:40:26] next year. The goal is get to three, 300.

[3:40:29] » Got it.

[3:40:34] » One more year. >> This is second year.

[3:40:36] » Second [snorts] year. >> Two more. Yeah.

[3:40:39] » This year, the next year >> we'll move into the building. Um

[3:40:43] » January >> January

[3:40:45] » by the time we start paying for it >> 29

[3:40:50] » I'll go recount the 30. >> Okay.

[3:40:53] » Done. >> Well you talking about this year urban.

[3:40:57] » Yeah. >> Yeah. Well you add that to the 50ome 53

[3:41:00] last year. So you know he's we're rounding up. We round up.

[3:41:06] » [laughter]

[3:41:11] » All right. Those in favor of the motion signify by saying I.

[3:41:14] » Post like sign. Motion carries. Unanimous.

[3:41:19] » All right. We're going to recess for lunch.

[3:41:22] » Reconvene at >> reconvene at uh

[3:41:26] 1:30.

[3:41:30] the Dar County Board of Commissioners meeting back to order and turn it over

[3:41:34] to the county manager. >> Um, Mr. Chairman, item five, which is

[3:41:38] the HR1 NC State budget impacts for Dair County. We're going to move that to our

[3:41:43] October agenda. So, we cross that one off. Um,

[3:41:49] » that would take us down to item eight, which is library card signup month

[3:41:54] proclamation. Uh, if you'd like, I can read that.

[3:41:58] » Yes, sir. Um whereas libraries are foundation to education, imagination and

[3:42:02] opportunity, offering everything from early literacy programs to digital tools

[3:42:06] that support lifelong learning and personal growth. Whereas libraries

[3:42:10] welcome all people serving as inclusive, accessible community hubs that connect

[3:42:15] individuals across cultures, generations, and experiences. And

[3:42:18] whereas libraries curate collections and design programs that reflect the

[3:42:22] diversity of the populations they serve, ensuring equitable access to

[3:42:25] information, technology, and culture for all. And whereas libraries help

[3:42:29] individuals navigate life's challenges by providing trusted information,

[3:42:34] digital access, job search support, and connections to essential services. And

[3:42:38] whereas libraries contribute to the thriving local economies by equipping

[3:42:42] job seekers, entrepreneurs, students, and creators with tools and training to

[3:42:46] succeed. And whereas in times of both crisis and calm, libraries and their

[3:42:51] staff remain steadfast in supporting and strengthening their communities. And

[3:42:55] whereas library resources help households save money, reduce waste, and

[3:42:59] make sustainable choices, all through the simple power of shared public good.

[3:43:03] Now therefore, be it resolved that the Dair County Board of Commissioners do

[3:43:06] hereby proclaim September 26 as library card signup month in North Car in Dare

[3:43:12] County, North Carolina, and encourage all residents to be sharp and sign up

[3:43:16] for a library card this first day of September 2026.

[3:43:20] » Motion to adopt. >> There's a motion on the floor by the

[3:43:23] vice chair to adopt as presented. Is there a second?

[3:43:27] » Second by Commissioner Burus. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Those

[3:43:31] in favor signify by saying I. >> I oppose like sign. Motion carries

[3:43:36] unanimous. >> Um each year we get a this goes we're

[3:43:39] down now to number 11 paragraph 11. Um item 11. Each year we get a grant. Uh

[3:43:46] our grant is from NC DOT for our transportation for seniors and

[3:43:50] individual disabilities. Um in order to obtain that grant, we have to have a

[3:43:54] public hearing. And so with that said, I would call to order the public hearing

[3:43:58] with regard to the 2028 NC DOT 5310 5311 combined capital grant application. If

[3:44:07] anyone would like to speak to that issue, please raise your hand. Uh seeing

[3:44:11] none, is there anyone in in Bucks that would like to speak?

[3:44:16] » No comment that uh we would close uh the public

[3:44:20] hearing. Uh and I think I don't think there's any action required. So

[3:44:25] No, >> you adopt the resolution. Yes.

[3:44:32] » Motion to adopt the resolution. >> Okay. There's a motion on the floor by

[3:44:35] the vice chair to adopt the resolution. Is there a second?

[3:44:38] » Second. >> Second by Commissioner Burus. Any

[3:44:40] further discussion? Hearing none. Those in favor signify by saying I. I.

[3:44:45] Opposed. Like sign. Motion carries unanimous. Item 12 is a joint resolution

[3:44:50] requesting a permanent ferry toll waiver for locally registered [clears throat]

[3:44:53] vehicles. Uh you have that in front of you. I would turn that back over to you,

[3:44:57] Mr. Chairman. >> Uh

[3:45:04] the um well, there's a resolution here. You want to u you want to read it if you

[3:45:11] will? >> I will. Uh there's a matter of law that

[3:45:14] was introduced during the >> myriad of public comments saying this is

[3:45:20] a waste of time. It has to be directed to the legislature. That's right.

[3:45:23] » Not the governor or the DOT. Right. >> I don't know if that's true or not. It

[3:45:28] is true. >> What we would do is we would if we adopt

[3:45:32] it, we would send it to all elected folks. That's what we would normally do

[3:45:36] anyway. >> That's what we normally do.

[3:45:37] » Proceed. Sorry. Thank you. >> Including the legislative. All right.

[3:45:41] » All right. Right. Whereas Senate Bill 257, the 2025 [clears throat]

[3:45:44] appropri appropriations act amends article 6 of chapter 136 of the North

[3:45:49] Carolina General Statutes to impose tolls on all ferry routes in North

[3:45:52] Carolina and to increase tolls on currently existing ferry routes

[3:45:55] according to route destination and vehicle size. And whereas fairies serve

[3:46:00] as the primary and in some cases exclusive highways and bridges for the

[3:46:04] residents, commuters, and emergency services of eastern North Carolina. And

[3:46:08] whereas the residents of Bowfort, Brunswick, Carter, Craraven, Curry Tuck,

[3:46:12] Dare, Hyde, New Handover, and Pamelo counties rely on these state maintained

[3:46:16] marine corridors daily to access employment, medical care, education, and

[3:46:21] essential goods. And whereas mainland residents of North Carolina enjoy free

[3:46:25] untold access to statemaintained roads, highways, and bridges funded by the

[3:46:30] general tax base to which coastal residents also contribute. And whereas

[3:46:34] opposing in additional transit fees on local citizens simply because they

[3:46:39] reside in a coastal region creates an unfair system of double taxation. And

[3:46:44] whereas the financial burden of new or increased tolls will disproportionately

[3:46:48] harm local working families, small businesses, and fixed income retirees

[3:46:52] who have no viable alternative transit routes. And whereas a fair and equitable

[3:46:57] solution must distinguish between daily local commuters who utilize the ferry

[3:47:02] system as an essential highway and seasonal tourism traffic that utilizes

[3:47:06] the system for recreation. Now therefore be it resolved by the boards of

[3:47:10] commissioners of the counties of Bowford, Brunswick, Carrec, Craraven,

[3:47:13] Curry, Tuck, Dare, Hyde, New Hanover, and Pamelon, North Carolina, that one

[3:47:18] member counties strongly request all tolls and fees affecting North Carolina

[3:47:21] ferry routes be waved for all vehicles registered in counties with ferry

[3:47:25] terminals. two that the member of counties humbly urged the honorable

[3:47:29] governor Josh Stein and the North Carolina Department of Transportation to

[3:47:32] wave all tolls and fees for vehicles registered in counties with ferry

[3:47:35] terminals and to create a permanent waiver exempting all locally registered

[3:47:40] personnel personal and commercial vehicles from ferry tolls and three the

[3:47:44] member counties request that any necessary state revenue adjustments

[3:47:47] focus strictly on non-residentinal seasonal tourism traffic rather than

[3:47:51] penalizing local citizens adopted this the first day of September 2026 Six

[3:47:57] » move to adopt. >> There's a motion on the floor by a vice

[3:48:00] chair to adopt as as presented been seconded by commissioner balance. Floor

[3:48:05] is open for discussion. >> Question county manager. This

[3:48:09] essentially says any highway, bridge or ferry or other um road or mode of

[3:48:17] transport is fairly taxed for recreational use but shall not be taxed

[3:48:24] for daily uh normal use. And they're making a distinction in the resolution

[3:48:30] we are that if you use it for rec recreation, it's fair to tax you. If you

[3:48:36] use it to go to work or go to school, it's unfair to tax you. Does this open a

[3:48:41] can of worms that any jurisdiction across the state could imply we're going

[3:48:45] to start raising money by putting, you know, a toll on anyone without a local

[3:48:50] county license plate? >> I don't know the answer to that. I just

[3:48:54] read that and thought, is that a real reason?

[3:48:57] » I don't know the answer to that either. I've never done the research. Look, I

[3:49:01] have heard anecdotally that you can't distinguish among those that

[3:49:05] » use the roads. You either tax everybody or you tax none.

[3:49:09] » I've also heard that you can tax at different rates and and so I really

[3:49:14] don't know the answer to that question. >> Yeah. I mean,

[3:49:18] » and >> emotionally I don't want to charge our

[3:49:21] people for tolls, right? But I'm looking at the wording and saying, "Okay, does

[3:49:24] this open a Pandora's box that uh you go to Asheville and suddenly you're being

[3:49:29] taxed to go down the road X or Z because you're on vacation and don't live in

[3:49:34] Asheville." >> Yeah. Well, also what we've what I what

[3:49:37] I've learned is that for local residents, you can buy a pass for $150,

[3:49:43] but that pass is per vehicle. >> Per vehicle, right?

[3:49:46] » Not per person. So if you got two or three cars

[3:49:50] then you're at you know 300 450 >> and each each usage what what is the

[3:49:56] toll? Do you know what the daily toll is?

[3:49:58] » That's what they're asking. >> That's what they're trying to determine.

[3:50:01] They directed the ferry division to study it and come up with the tolling.

[3:50:07] » Well, if it's a buck a day, you're $700 going two ways on the ferry, right? Mhm.

[3:50:15] » If you used it every single day, >> again, depending on what they come up

[3:50:19] with as a tolling structure, >> if you could buy an annual pass for 150

[3:50:22] bucks, you'd be better off to just buy the annual pass.

[3:50:25] » Oh, >> I don't know, guys. It just I don't

[3:50:29] know. >> Barely pay tax people going to their own

[3:50:31] homes. >> I you know, again, emotionally, I'm with

[3:50:34] you. >> I don't want to pay tolls.

[3:50:36] » I just don't know how you regulate it. >> And if we don't care about the

[3:50:40] president, then fine. Let's pass it. >> What a Really what it boils down to is

[3:50:46] [snorts] a state legislature has got the funds and they need to

[3:50:51] properly fund the transportation department and and put the put the

[3:50:58] amount of money in there that the furry division the rest of NC do needs.

[3:51:03] » Right. And >> so why are they charging any tolls?

[3:51:06] » Right? >> That I'm I'm 100% on board with the

[3:51:09] resolution that they don't charge tolls. >> Right. I got hung up on the well if

[3:51:14] you're recreating recreating then it's free you got to pay

[3:51:18] » that's what hung me up >> right

[3:51:22] » Rob so some of the thought processes they're going to um I was down in my

[3:51:26] house this weekend in Oka Coke and some of the neighbors down there seems to

[3:51:31] think what they've been told they're going to be charged $150 a year for

[3:51:35] their priority pass to go over there then they're also going to be charged

[3:51:39] $150 a year flat fee for unlimited times going back and

[3:51:44] forth. Then the tourists are going to be

[3:51:48] charged $6 per car.

[3:51:53] Now, this is not >> written in stat.

[3:51:56] » Yeah. >> Right. But that's what their plans are.

[3:52:02] » I mean, we could we could certainly revise this resolution.

[3:52:06] » I don't know. I mean, am I wrong, guys? If I'm wrong, you make you talk me out

[3:52:09] of it. you make your points well made. >> This is a joint resolution. If we're

[3:52:15] going to revise it, it would be it would be

[3:52:16] » Yeah, it's all the other guys. All the other counties,

[3:52:20] » like >> well, we that that doesn't mean we have

[3:52:23] to do a joint resolution. We could do >> whatever you want. Yeah,

[3:52:30] » to be honest with you, I don't think it's going to make a difference.

[3:52:33] » And you're probably right. So, I'm making a big issue out of a no issue.

[3:52:36] So, let's just let's just go. Got it. I just

[3:52:39] » All right. Those in favor signify by saying I I oppose like sign. Motion

[3:52:43] carries unanimous. >> Bobby was a one of one against that

[3:52:46] ordeal. [clears throat] >> That brings us to item 13 on the agenda.

[3:52:51] Uh the Southern Albamar Association has their meeting coming up and they have a

[3:52:56] proposed guest list of invitees from uh Dair County and they're asking you to

[3:53:00] approve that list.

[3:53:05] [clears throat and cough] >> We are.

[3:53:06] » Did we make the list? They did.

[3:53:10] » The list is attached. >> Found it.

[3:53:12] » We [laughter]

[3:53:18] motion to approve. >> Motion on the floor by Commissioner

[3:53:20] Balance to approve. Approve as presented.

[3:53:24] » Is there a second? >> Second.

[3:53:25] » Second by the vice chair. >> Further comments.

[3:53:29] » Can we nominate a proxy? I'd like to nominate Mary Helen to replace me as my

[3:53:33] proxy at Oh, no. Too late. Sorry. Um, all right.

[3:53:41] All those in favor of the motion signify by saying I.

[3:53:44] » I. >> Post like sign. Motion carries

[3:53:46] unanimous. >> When is this annual meeting?

[3:53:49] » Usually in the fall sometime, Steve, I don't

[3:53:51] » Yeah, I don't I don't have that date yet.

[3:53:53] » Okay. >> You'll get an invitation if you get an

[3:53:56] invitation. >> Yeah, I remember.

[3:53:58] » It's usually in the fall. >> Um, move on to the consent agenda. You

[3:54:03] have the approval of the minutes from August 3rd and August 10th, the tax

[3:54:07] collector's report, contract with Train US, Inc. elevator maintenance contract,

[3:54:13] um the North Carolina Governor's Highway Safety Program, local government

[3:54:16] resolution for the NCEL, and then the North Carolina Highway

[3:54:21] Safety Program, local government resolution for the GHSPO.

[3:54:27] And then you have the authorization to present a service weapon to retiring

[3:54:31] deputy sheriff Overbeck and an authorization to present service weapon

[3:54:36] to retiring deputy sheriff Lieutenant David Mason.

[3:54:39] » Motion to approve. >> Motion on on the floor by the vice

[3:54:42] chair. >> Second.

[3:54:43] » Seconded by Commissioner Baitman. Open for further discussion. Hearing none.

[3:54:47] Those in favor signify by saying I. >> I.

[3:54:50] » Post like sign. Motion carries unanimous.

[3:54:52] » Uh next are your board appointments. Uh the Dare County Joint Community Advisory

[3:54:57] Committee, Nursing Home Advisory Committee, Mitchell Baitman and Mary

[3:55:00] Pendle have both completed the required training to be appointed to the Dair

[3:55:04] County Joint Community Advisory Committee

[3:55:08] Commission Area on Aging has submitted a recommendation letters for them to be

[3:55:11] appointed. >> Motion to appoint.

[3:55:14] » Motion on by the vice chair, seconded by Commissioner Baitman. Any further

[3:55:19] discussion? Yeah. I just I remember Mitchell raising this thing and there

[3:55:24] were significant barriers to entry if I can use that phrase.

[3:55:28] » Yes. >> Do we anticipate Bobby or Skyler? Do you

[3:55:32] know if there are any other candidates kind of lining up to do this?

[3:55:36] » We have one more. >> One more.

[3:55:38] » Currently going through >> going through it. Okay.

[3:55:40] » Yeah. I was just curious. It's a big It's a big ask.

[3:55:43] » It is a big ask. >> It's a big ask.

[3:55:46] » And those requirements aren't ours. They're the state.

[3:55:48] » I know. I know, right? >> And there was some issue about liability

[3:55:52] exposure, personal liability that caused a mass resignation last time.

[3:55:57] » Okay, >> Bobby, let me ask this. Is there any um

[3:56:01] supposedly the Almoral Commission was looking at some compensation for these

[3:56:05] people? >> Um I don't know. I know that we I think

[3:56:08] we reimburse uh these two for their travel for those trainings here for the

[3:56:14] ones that we have. I don't know what the album Commission's doing.

[3:56:18] » Okay. I don't recall seeing that on any of our agendas. Urban.

[3:56:23] » Okay. [clears throat] >> All right. Ready to move on?

[3:56:27] » Yes, sir. >> All right. Next is the Health and Human

[3:56:30] Services. The terms of Brent Richardson, Jamie Daniels, Ashley Jackson, and

[3:56:34] Christopher Roberts expire this month. The Health and Human Services Board

[3:56:38] recommends Brent Richardson, and Jamie Daniels be reappointed. Um, Christopher

[3:56:44] Roberts in the case he does not wish to be reappointed and to fill the seat

[3:56:49] currently held by Roberts. The board recommends that Ashley Jackson be

[3:56:52] reappointed and moved from her current atlarge seat to the social worker seat.

[3:56:57] And the board recommends that Joel Keith be appointed to fill the atlarge seat

[3:57:01] which would then which would have been held by Ashley Jackson. And

[3:57:04] additionally, due to Dwayne Gibbs lack of attendance, the Health and Human

[3:57:08] Board recommends appointing Megan Seaman to fill his seat.

[3:57:13] Motion to approve. It's a >> motion on by Commissioner Baitman. Is

[3:57:18] there a second? Second. >> Second by the vice chair.

[3:57:21] » Open for further discussion. Hearing none. Those in favor signify by saying

[3:57:25] I. >> Like motion carries unanimous.

[3:57:29] » Next is the Thomas A. Balma Senior Citizen Senior Center Advisory Board. Uh

[3:57:34] the advisory council recommends the appointment of Adelaide Paige and Andrea

[3:57:39] Podiger to fill the two vacant seats.

[3:57:46] Motion to approve. >> Motion on motion on the floor by the

[3:57:50] vice chair page. >> Seconded by

[3:57:53] » Irvin >> Irvin Baitman. Any further discussion?

[3:57:56] Hearing? None. Those in favor signify by saying I.

[3:57:59] » I post like sign. >> Motion carries unanimous.

[3:58:03] » Then for your upcoming board and committee appointments in October, you

[3:58:06] have the library board with one term and the Thomas A. Bomb Senior Center

[3:58:10] Advisory Board with three terms expiring. In November, you have the

[3:58:14] Older Adult Services Council with two terms expiring and

[3:58:17] [cough and clears throat] the W working Working Waterman Commission with one

[3:58:19] term expiring. And then in December, you have the Equalization and Review Board

[3:58:23] with five terms expiring, the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board with one term

[3:58:28] expiring, the Stumpy Point Community Center with one term expiring, and the

[3:58:32] Tourism Board with [snorts] six terms expiring. That would be your agenda, Mr.

[3:58:36] Chairman. >> Six terms. Excuse me.

[3:58:40] » Uh, that brings us that brings us to item 16. Uh, commissioner's business,

[3:58:44] manager's business. Do you have anything else for us today, Bob?

[3:58:47] » Uh, yeah. I got two things. Um, at one of our previous meetings, you all had

[3:58:53] asked about ebike regulation and had asked us to look into it or get with

[3:58:59] planning staff to look into ebike regulation.

[3:59:02] What we found is a lot of stuff. I mean, we did some digging and but the long and

[3:59:08] the short of all that is is that counties don't have the authority to

[3:59:12] regulate ebikes. There's specific authority for towns to do that, but

[3:59:16] there is no equivalent authority in the statutes for counties to do that. And

[3:59:20] there's actually a bill in the legislature right now to give counties

[3:59:25] that authority. And so really not much we can do about that right now to

[3:59:30] regulate ebikes. Um there's a lot of stuff in there. about ebikes. There are

[3:59:36] state rules already in effect. And so, you know, if those rules were enforced

[3:59:42] effectively, then possibly it would solve some of the problems that you've

[3:59:46] heard about. But, uh, in order to enforce them, then law enforcement has

[3:59:51] to catch them in the act. And, you know, that's difficult. So again,

[3:59:56] that's one of the is I'll tell you one of the other issues that we found was

[4:00:01] towns and communities struggle with what to do because if you force the ebikes

[4:00:06] off of the bike paths, then you're forcing them into the road. You can't

[4:00:11] ban them. They're allowed to be on the public highways just as a bicycle is.

[4:00:15] And if you push them off the bike path, then you're pushing them in the highway.

[4:00:19] And have you then created a worse problem? And so should we get the

[4:00:23] authority, you know, we would have to give some thought as to how we would

[4:00:26] want to regulate them and what we would want to do. So with that said, not much

[4:00:31] we can do there. I wanted to report back as you requested me to do. Um,

[4:00:38] at the appropriate time, then we do need a close session and it won't be long. I

[4:00:44] do need to get some counsel from you all in close session.

[4:00:47] » All right, sounds good. Um, thank you, Bobby. Uh, that that brings us to u our

[4:00:54] public information uh officer. Uh, Dorothy has stepped out. Miss Caitlyn

[4:00:59] Knights have stepped in. Caitlyn, you have anything for us?

[4:01:02] » Yes. Um, just wanted to let you all know that we are working on the materials for

[4:01:06] the sales tax referendum, educational pieces, and you should expect to see

[4:01:10] some proofs next week of the postcard and the rack card. Um, and then we're

[4:01:15] also beginning to work with our videographer on the videos that we'll

[4:01:19] produce for those that will run on a streaming platform. So, just to give you

[4:01:22] a heads up for that. And then another item that I don't believe we've brought

[4:01:26] up to you is that we've installed an accessibility toolbar on our website.

[4:01:31] So, you'll see a little symbol of a person in the lower lefthand corner of

[4:01:36] our site. Now, you can click that and activate the toolbar. It will translate

[4:01:40] all the text on our website into over 50 different languages. It will read the

[4:01:45] the text aloud. It gives descriptions of the images on the site and we're working

[4:01:51] on getting it to read all the PDFs on the website also just to make it more

[4:01:56] accessible. So, just one thing for you guys to be aware of also.

[4:01:58] » Wow. >> Thank you.

[4:02:00] » That's pretty cool. >> Yeah.

[4:02:01] » Yeah. >> I have a question for you.

[4:02:04] It was asserted with emphasis during public comment that we are spending

[4:02:10] $20,000 of public money to advocate for the support and passage of the

[4:02:15] referendum. Is that a correct statement, Miss Kite?

[4:02:18] » No, it's not. >> It is the commission directing. Yeah, it

[4:02:21] is. >> We are we are putting out educational

[4:02:24] pieces because of the way the wording is on the ballot

[4:02:28] » um to inform people of what it actually means

[4:02:30] » to inform the constituents. >> That's correct. Ah, once again, good

[4:02:35] thing we take public comment for what it is sometimes. Thank you, Miss Kite. Of

[4:02:39] » course. >> Thank you, Ken. Um,

[4:02:43] our finance director, Matt, do you have

[4:02:46] anything else for us? >> I just attended the local government

[4:02:50] commission meeting on break and they passed our debt issuance.

[4:02:56] So, >> cool.

[4:02:57] » Cool. >> That's good.

[4:02:58] » That's good news. Uh, one other real quick, Matt, on the school CIP,

[4:03:04] that was a 20-year loan advertised over 20.

[4:03:06] » Yes. >> Okay.

[4:03:10] » All right. Thank you, Matt. Anything else?

[4:03:13] » Nope. >> Okay. Um All right. That brings us to a

[4:03:16] commissioner's business. I'm going to ask Commissioner Ross if he will kick

[4:03:19] that off. >> I would be glad to, Mr. Chairman. Thank

[4:03:22] you. A couple of updates. Uh we are very happy as a board I think I speak for all

[4:03:27] of us that the coastal family collaborative is continuing to advance

[4:03:32] in Buckton with the early child care initiative and we wish them the best of

[4:03:38] luck. Two really really beneficial and worthy events are coming up. One from

[4:03:44] the dementia uh friendly coalition on the 23rd through 25th of October. They

[4:03:51] raise a great deal of funds through a tennis and pickle ball tournament at our

[4:03:54] very own county manager Duckwoods Country Club. I have been there and

[4:03:58] attended in the past and I can tell you it is a great group. Miss Jan Collins

[4:04:04] heads it up and they do amazing work for the families of those suffering from

[4:04:08] memory loss in our community. The other one is on the 23rd of October in

[4:04:13] conjunction with OBX Hospital, the Cancer Shucks fundraiser, which is also

[4:04:18] a highly effective and very worthwhile uh charitable dinner party that raises a

[4:04:24] lot of money for our own local cancer center. That's all I have, sir.

[4:04:27] » Thank you, Commissioner Ross. Uh Vice Chairman, uh the House,

[4:04:34] » uh m be real brief and short since we're running long. Um, I wanted to reiterate

[4:04:38] the uh 911 uh walk from EMS station one to the top of Wright Brothers Memorial

[4:04:44] and back to EMS station one. Um, I've been a part of this since the beginning

[4:04:48] and it's a wonderful tribute. Um, I can't tell you 911 holds a very dear and

[4:04:55] special place in my heart. I lost two very good friends that day. Um, one at

[4:04:59] the Pentagon and one at the Twin Towers. Um, so if you can please come on out.

[4:05:06] Uh, we're trying to get as many people there as possible. We're trying to break

[4:05:09] some records this year for the 25th. And, uh, also, even though we've run

[4:05:15] long, the best part of any Dair County Commissioner board meeting, met our pet

[4:05:20] pet of the month. >> Our pet of the week this week is Tango.

[4:05:25] Tango is a sweet, almost one-year-old orange tabby looking for his forever

[4:05:29] home. He's aate, chatty, and loves attention. He especially enjoys being

[4:05:34] held, and he's always happy when it's time to eat. The loving, social little

[4:05:38] guy with a big personality who would make a wonderful companion.

[4:05:46] To adopt Tango or foster one of our other animals, come visit us Monday

[4:05:51] through Friday at our shelter located in Manuel. For more information, visit our

[4:05:55] website at obxspca.org org or visit our OBX SPCA

[4:06:01] Facebook page. >> So definitely run out to OBX SPCA, check

[4:06:06] out Tango and all the other little kittens they've got out there and dogs

[4:06:10] and whatever else might be running around and give somebody their forever

[4:06:13] home. And for that, Mr. Chairman, thank you.

[4:06:16] » Thank you, Vice Chair, Commissioner Baitman.

[4:06:19] » Yes, sir. Um, so I had the um privilege or not so

[4:06:24] privilege of of being on WTKR interviewed by Will um concerning the

[4:06:30] sales tax parks and wreck issue and the followup phone calls I got after that

[4:06:37] interview. A couple things came to mind and that I think

[4:06:43] I'm going to take a personal stance on, but I would like to throw that to the

[4:06:46] board to see what you guys think about it. The first would be is, you know, we

[4:06:52] cannot guarantee for future boards what we're going to do with the sales tax

[4:06:56] money, but we have stated that it's going to be for parks and wreck. And

[4:07:01] what I'd like to do is I'm going to take a personal stance that as long as I'm an

[4:07:06] elected official in Dair County and that sales tax if it does pass, I'm going to

[4:07:12] commit that that $6 million per year is going to go directly to parks and wreck.

[4:07:18] And I if we could somehow do that and do it as a board and each take that

[4:07:23] commitment, I think that would help the citizens to realize that we're not only

[4:07:28] committed, but we're committed to do exactly what we say we're going to do.

[4:07:35] » I I think you want to just word it to support the debt issuance and the

[4:07:43] related funding, meaning it's >> [clears throat]

[4:07:48] » You want to complete and execute that strategic parks and recck plan and

[4:07:53] that's your commitment, but you're not specifying a dollar amount. It's

[4:07:57] basically the tax will be used for that purpose.

[4:08:00] » Matt, I can't hear you if you mind speaking into the microphone if you

[4:08:04] will. >> Go ahead.

[4:08:07] » I thought I was kind of clear what I was I wasn't.

[4:08:09] » It was, but you can't use $6 million because it might be $5 million next

[4:08:14] year. um depending on what the tax does over time, what you're doing is

[4:08:18] committing the proceeds from that tax to the recreation plan, whatever those

[4:08:23] proceeds are >> until that plan is completed.

[4:08:26] » Until that plan is completed, um one other thing I'll tell you about that

[4:08:30] commitment and your comment about not binding future boards, once you borrow

[4:08:34] that money, >> you found them. uh once you've borrowed

[4:08:37] the money and you've started doing the work and you've got the loan out there,

[4:08:42] then they're bound by that into the future.

[4:08:44] » We took out the mortgage, they inherited the house, they still got to pay the

[4:08:47] mortgage. >> They will have to continue to pay that.

[4:08:49] So, they can't then five years from now says we're we're going to stop uh

[4:08:54] because you will be already have that debt and you'll have all that work done.

[4:08:59] So once you start and once you borrow the funds then

[4:09:03] whoever comes behind you is locked in. >> So de facto as soon as we execute the

[4:09:09] loan or float the uh the bond we have committed ourselves to the project by

[4:09:15] definition. >> That's right.

[4:09:16] » For what 20 years [clears throat] >> it'll be a 20 year not 55 54 million 55

[4:09:23] million. Well, here's the here's the point, at least when I take from

[4:09:27] Commissioner Baitman, and I've stated this publicly as well, and I'll continue

[4:09:31] to state it. His intention is that whatever is collected from, and quote me

[4:09:39] if I'm wrong, Commissioner Baitman, whatever is collected, I'm not putting a

[4:09:43] dollar amount on it, but whatever is collected from the quarter cent sales

[4:09:47] tax, if it is, if it passes that he is committing, and I agree, I will commit

[4:09:54] that as long as I'm on this board, I will not spend a penny of that for

[4:09:59] anything else other than parks and recrecks improvements. And again, you

[4:10:03] may be committing to spend more if the sales tax revenue is insufficient for

[4:10:08] the debt service on the bond we're floating.

[4:10:10] » So, we're back to the original point that we're going to float a

[4:10:14] [clears throat] bond to fund the plan for the public works and recreation.

[4:10:21] » The [clears throat] the point being made >> Well, you said public is social meds

[4:10:26] and recreation. point being made. There's so much

[4:10:29] there's there's no trust out there. We even said that earlier today with

[4:10:35] respects to flock cameras. There's no trust out there.

[4:10:38] » Well, you've been lining your pockets according to one.

[4:10:41] » Absolutely. >> We remember that. Um, this this takes

[4:10:45] the nonrust as far as I'm concerned off the table that I'm committing as long as

[4:10:50] I remain commissioner that I will not spend a penny of that quarter cent sales

[4:10:55] tax for anything other than parks and wrecks. It's that simple,

[4:10:59] » you know. >> Amen.

[4:11:00] » And I make that same commitment. Well, everybody else in this board made that

[4:11:04] same commitment >> 100%.

[4:11:07] » Okay. So, it goes on the record. >> Yes, it goes on the record.

[4:11:10] » Okay. Helen, you put that in bold letters when you print this.

[4:11:14] » Big letters. >> You don't know what I'm gonna be doing

[4:11:16] in 20 years, but just in case I'm still commissioner for 20 years until the

[4:11:19] bonds paid off anyway. [laughter] >> Okay. And the other the other thing that

[4:11:24] it came up at the same time was what were we going to spend the money on? And

[4:11:29] so >> you don't even have a plan. Oh, I'm

[4:11:33] sorry. You do have a plan. >> I do have We do have a plan. Okay. And

[4:11:36] what the plan is is for the first year um or with those first sets of money

[4:11:43] that comes in synthetic turf on athletic fields um updating existing fields based

[4:11:50] on the highest current usage focused on rectangular multi-use fields and that

[4:11:56] will be approximately $6 million. And I I'll make that commitment also.

[4:12:01] That's what what we're going to do. Go ahead.

[4:12:05] » In in your report, there's a critical need section on page six of that report

[4:12:12] » and it has critical immediate needs and there were four things. There was the

[4:12:16] synthetic turf that he just said. There's basically number two says stop

[4:12:21] gap indoor expansions and updates. That's the Oakley Collier report.

[4:12:26] Then there's splash pads and playgrounds and then there's playground access. And

[4:12:31] then as you go to the next page of that report. It has mid-range needs and long

[4:12:36] range needs and and they come up with our report.

[4:12:40] What this will do, it will allow us to build everything out that's in that

[4:12:45] report and it would I've asked Dustin to get our architects to look at it and

[4:12:51] tell us timing wise and he says that within three years we could have

[4:12:55] everything in that report completed. So if it passed then as soon as we could

[4:13:01] get the money borrowed the plans drawn in the start we're 32 months I think

[4:13:07] from there to complete everything that's in this plan you you mentioned in the

[4:13:13] first year you know what presumably you would do is you would do those immediate

[4:13:17] needs in the first year and or they would all go simultaneously

[4:13:23] again depending on the workflow and the manpower and all those kind of things

[4:13:27] but the The report gives that priority and it and it does do that and we're

[4:13:32] doing everything on there. If anybody wants to know what the Oakley Collier

[4:13:36] report does is it says that the Nags Head Soccer Complex that's talking about

[4:13:41] the synthetic fields. Uh it's at the Kill Level Hills Youth Center. There's a

[4:13:47] bunch of building repair and improvements and increasing the square

[4:13:50] footage there. Uh creating bathroom fixtures, another a new gym there. So,

[4:13:55] there's a number of things there at the Lions Club over here on Run Oak Island.

[4:14:00] Similar things, a new gym there as well. Uh there's pickle ball courts, which

[4:14:05] we've already started that are in there. Uh there at down at the Fezan Center,

[4:14:10] there's again a litany of building repair and improvements. Um some of

[4:14:15] those things we've already started down there, but other things would be done by

[4:14:18] this. At the bomb center, there's a number of building repairs updates and

[4:14:23] and increases there, too. So there's a whole list of those things that Oakley

[4:14:27] Collier got out that would be done as you know one of the top priorities in

[4:14:31] this along with you know the other things that that report does. So for

[4:14:35] anyone that's interested, I think those things are online and they can go look

[4:14:40] and get the detail for those things. Uh and they can see the priority and they

[4:14:44] can see what all that stuff means and and the cost. And again, the unknown

[4:14:48] until this week was, you know, how long was it going to take us to do that? And

[4:14:52] the answer is we can have it done we believe in 36 months. So So there's a

[4:14:57] three-year process to complete this if we had the revenue available to do that.

[4:15:02] Well, there's there's so much out there saying, "Well, we don't know what you're

[4:15:05] going to do. We don't know what you're going we but we we put it out there

[4:15:09] multiple times. I mean, that's why we're spending the funds to educate the

[4:15:14] community what we're doing." And for them to constantly say, "Well, you know,

[4:15:19] I'd support this, but I don't know what it's going for. I don't I don't know how

[4:15:22] else we can get this word out. I just told you it's going to go for syn

[4:15:27] synthetic turf for the first year." >> That's right.

[4:15:30] Do we have on the website just like a very simple clear link that we don't

[4:15:38] have to go you know hunting around searching under what

[4:15:41] » sub just something click here and there's the plan the critical needs yes

[4:15:46] it's on the left sidebar towards the very top of the page and then we added

[4:15:50] it before the FAQs >> because a few weeks ago it wasn't there

[4:15:53] I was searching around I couldn't find it

[4:15:55] » all right >> you shared that and a couple of other

[4:15:57] people shared to make it more accessible >> that's great thank And another item

[4:16:01] we're working on is a really really clear graphic that shows this all of the

[4:16:05] needs that are going to be addressed all the projects a one sheet and we'll

[4:16:09] provide that to you guys also. >> So can can we come in agreement that

[4:16:14] number one priority is going to be the synthetic turf.

[4:16:19] » You're when you say that it means that we're going to do that we're going to do

[4:16:23] 10 things. I understand. I understand that. But

[4:16:26] » I think if we just >> we're going to do whatever you say.

[4:16:29] » If we name one one one project, we're going to get done with the first year.

[4:16:33] » What's driving this earth? It's like uh I don't understand.

[4:16:37] » Social media. >> Social media and the and and the six

[4:16:41] phone calls I got following the interview. Well,

[4:16:43] » they just want to know what are you going to spend your money on? The first

[4:16:47] thing, what's the priority? And I said, well, I said synthetic turfs. Well,

[4:16:52] how's your board feel about it? I said, "Well, I'm going to find out.

[4:16:54] » I would tell you if you ask me what we're going to do first, I would tell

[4:16:57] you we're going to do the the four things that are the critical needs that

[4:17:00] simultaneously." >> Thank you.

[4:17:02] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[4:17:03] » And I agree to that. >> Yeah. And we and we would also go with

[4:17:06] go with what the uh parks and rec advisory board,

[4:17:09] » right, >> asked us to do.

[4:17:12] » Okay. Irvin, I think the critical thing that

[4:17:16] you've asked us that the media needs to to emphasize with a

[4:17:24] putting big red bold letters is the simple fact of the matter is our board's

[4:17:29] unanimous about not spending a penny of that

[4:17:34] quarter cent sales tax if it if it's approved for anything but parks and

[4:17:38] wreck. >> Okay. I I think that's the that's the

[4:17:41] that's the biggest thing out there that we could tell the public and we've all

[4:17:47] committed right here today. Um so I I don't know how they could call us out

[4:17:53] because we've all committed to that. >> But that's why we're relying on the

[4:17:58] Murray Helens of the world to educate them and tell them this is this is what

[4:18:04] the board's doing. [laughter] >> Okay. All right. Let's talk brighte.

[4:18:10] Um in conversation um Mary Ellen and myself

[4:18:16] been talking to Johnny with um McGuire and Woods um about lobbying for

[4:18:24] us uh the utilities commission as well as the Senate and the House to help us

[4:18:30] get that loop done in Hatteris. Um, so I would like us to um the direction to

[4:18:37] give Bobby and staff to contact them and get them on the work um of having a

[4:18:43] conversation not only with one of his partners who used to be chairman of the

[4:18:48] utilities commission to lobby those guys, what we can do uh to push this

[4:18:53] thing forward as quickly as possible, what we need to do to um make it work

[4:18:57] and then also lobby the Senate and the House to do the same thing. And Mary

[4:19:02] Ellen's got something I think she's going to add to, but she's got some

[4:19:05] things she's already contacted some folks that she might want to add.

[4:19:08] » Well, we we can certainly add that to MG Maguire Woods list of things to do for

[4:19:13] us. Absolutely. >> That's really important.

[4:19:15] » That's what we're paying for. >> Okay. Um then the last thing I have on

[4:19:20] here is the um pumps on Highway 12. I talked to Bobby and when we met down

[4:19:25] there, we all went down and had a good meeting down there with the citizens.

[4:19:31] uh you know, we get a flood, it takes a while to get permits and pumps. Bobby,

[4:19:35] would you like to let them know what you found out about uh having pumps down

[4:19:38] there and pumping on a a moment's notice? So, we've talked [clears throat]

[4:19:43] with DOT and they are on board. We've talked with the park service and they

[4:19:50] say that they would give us the permits quickly to pump because we have to do it

[4:19:55] into the ocean. Um we have talked with DEEQ in Raleigh. um they said they could

[4:20:01] move quickly and we could pump, you know, when we have those emergencies. Um

[4:20:06] who I have not talked to is fish and wildlife. The the actual pipe has to

[4:20:11] cross the fish and wildlife. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem, but I have

[4:20:14] not had a conversation with them yet about that. Um so I think that the

[4:20:19] answer to the question is we can >> do that understanding that

[4:20:24] it takes some amount of time to get the pumps there, some amount of times to get

[4:20:28] it set up. If we take those great big pumps, it may require lane closures and

[4:20:32] things like that to be able to do them. Um, if you use the great big pumps, then

[4:20:37] they have a if the water's shallower than about 4 in, they won't work because

[4:20:43] you can't get a suction because the hose is bigger than the

[4:20:48] the depth of the water and so the pump won't pump. Um, and so you can pump it

[4:20:53] down when you use those. Um, you're also trying to debate when you have water on

[4:20:58] the road, how long do you think it's going to stay there? Uh, in past times,

[4:21:04] if it came a lot of times in a day, it was gone and pumping wasn't required.

[4:21:10] And so, there's some a little bit of wait and see before you get all these

[4:21:15] groups working together and get all that stuff out there. this last time it

[4:21:20] clearly didn't move off of there for a long time and pumping should have been

[4:21:24] done earlier and you know we had as we said down there we had talked to DOT

[4:21:29] about that and they said no that you know we weren't going to do that that

[4:21:33] was they're going to wait for it to dissipate and then it didn't dissipate

[4:21:36] as quickly as they said. So, I think they learned some things there and I

[4:21:40] think we're prepared to help them do that when the time comes and so uh we

[4:21:44] will react and be ready to go uh when that happens. Uh and I do need to follow

[4:21:50] up with fish and wildlife to be sure there's no issues there.

[4:21:55] I say this not to be smart, but if you want to do it quicker and

[4:22:00] you're worried about all them big pieces of equipment, a sump pump in a water

[4:22:04] hose will work pretty dag on good pumping water.

[4:22:09] » I'll tell you that when you're pumping those waters at the water levels we had,

[4:22:13] you're basically pumping the water in the road and the water in the pond until

[4:22:19] the pond gets down to the level of the road. It's a That's a lot a lot a lot of

[4:22:23] water. >> It is a lot of cell phones,

[4:22:25] » huh? >> That's a lot of cell phones.

[4:22:26] » Yeah, it's a lot of something pumps. [clears throat]

[4:22:30] » Figure figure it out to to make it work quick, Bobby.

[4:22:33] » Yes, sir. >> Because I mean, really, we don't need to

[4:22:37] sit around for days. I I you know, you got the mines and you got the equipment,

[4:22:43] so figure it out to figure out how quick you can get down there and pump it.

[4:22:47] Well, the good news is we got a um D is working with Fish and Wildlife now. So,

[4:22:52] they'll >> Yeah, they got a good working

[4:22:54] relationship. >> That's all I got.

[4:22:56] » Thank you, Commissioner. Good work, Carson. Commissioner Krief.

[4:23:02] » Yeah, I've got a few things obviously. Number one is our remembrance of 911.

[4:23:09] I've got a dear friend of mine lives in Pirates Cove. Never knew it for years.

[4:23:14] He's avid collector. He's he's pretty wealthy. Collects all grades of music,

[4:23:20] memorabilia, guitars, everything. Signed, baseball stuff, everything in

[4:23:24] the world. And I asked him what his favorite thing was. And he said, "A

[4:23:26] suit." I said, "A suit?" I said, "Whose suit was it?" I'm thinking Frank Sinatra

[4:23:31] or somebody else. He said, "My suit." I said, "Your suit? What's so special

[4:23:36] about your suit?" He said, "I was wearing it in the South Tower when it

[4:23:39] hit and the burn marks are still in it." >> Wow.

[4:23:44] And that's a pretty shocking thing to think about. Just your average day at

[4:23:49] work, you're not thinking anything of it. You get your breakfast, you head

[4:23:53] upstairs, and next thing you know, you're involved directly in the biggest

[4:23:58] terror attack in the history of the United States.

[4:24:02] Uh obviously 25 years later, it's it is easy for some people to forget.

[4:24:08] Certainly, we have a whole generation of young people now who weren't even alive

[4:24:12] when it happened. And I think it is good to have these walks and have these

[4:24:18] events to memorialize these people who lost their lives. And uh and it disgusts

[4:24:25] me when I see certain individuals running for public office across the

[4:24:29] country, one in particular saying that we deserved 911.

[4:24:34] I don't think those women who were jumping off of that burning building

[4:24:39] with their last ounce of dignity holding their blouses down as they plummeted

[4:24:45] towards the street. I don't think anybody deserves that and I think that

[4:24:51] we should remember those people and honor them in the best way that we can.

[4:24:56] So please if you're around have day off obviously I believe it's on a Friday

[4:25:02] this year is that correct please participate in that walk over

[4:25:07] there to remember those who lost their lives during such a horrific event.

[4:25:12] Secondly uh

[4:25:18] we got to get these splash pads off of here.

[4:25:21] I'm just saying that's what I've caught the most flack on. I know Urban's got

[4:25:26] some phone calls. I have to u Yeah, I'm not going to vote in favor

[4:25:31] of splash pads when we got sound and ocean [laughter] right here. We got

[4:25:36] surrounded by more water than anywhere in the world really.

[4:25:40] » Oh, >> splash pads.

[4:25:42] » Yeah, >> that's the issue holding up the $57

[4:25:46] million parks and wreck. Two splash pads.

[4:25:51] » Yeah, I don't I don't I don't >> sure I got it clear. Yeah. Uh,

[4:25:58] pretty much. And other than that, uh, we got dove season coming up.

[4:26:04] Everybody please stay safe out there. Uh, obviously there's a lot of people

[4:26:11] hunting close together during dove season, but I hope everybody enjoys it.

[4:26:16] And other than that, I'm gonna keep it pretty brief.

[4:26:19] » Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Burus,

[4:26:24] » I think everybody's pretty much touched on everything. Uh 911 coming up is a

[4:26:28] very big day. We all look forward to doing that walk. Uh I thank Lee for

[4:26:32] taking the time out and uh and getting gussied up and coming out here and

[4:26:36] letting us know about it. Um I appreciate the time and the effort he

[4:26:40] takes to put that event together and the people that uh that donate and the

[4:26:44] people that show up and walk every year. Um 25 years, you know, make sure we

[4:26:50] don't forget. Uh other than that, you know, it's a the children youth

[4:26:54] partnership with the diapers. That's fantastic. Uh we're very blessed in in

[4:26:58] Dair County. We have a lot of nonprofits here and a lot of people that are in

[4:27:04] [clears throat] need. The gaps are filled in by these nonprofits. So, I'm

[4:27:08] very thankful for all the work. Uh if you're out there and you're listening

[4:27:11] and you're in a nonprofit, thank you for all you do. Thank you for giving back to

[4:27:15] the community. Um, thank you for filling in those gaps and uh the community

[4:27:20] certainly appreciates it and uh and I appreciate it. So, I just want to take a

[4:27:24] minute and thank everybody that that works with those and all the work they

[4:27:28] do. And that's all I have, sir. >> Thank you, Commissioner Commissioner

[4:27:32] Balance. >> I'll try to be brief, but I got quite a

[4:27:35] few things here. Um, we're [clears throat] doing a coyote meeting

[4:27:38] down in Hatteris um on September 10th at six o'clock at the Fezan Center. Um the

[4:27:44] uh wildlife guys are coming in to talk about coyotes on Hatter Island because

[4:27:49] it's it's kind of I saw a picture on Facebook the other day where one was

[4:27:52] coming out of those you know woods looking at my friend's house and she

[4:27:57] took a picture of him coming across the street. So anyway, we um uh just being

[4:28:01] proactive in getting that information out on coyotes and how they operate. um

[4:28:07] September 10th I will actually last minute have to be out of town so I will

[4:28:10] not be there but Dorothy said she would be there and um so hopefully it will be

[4:28:15] well attended. I think there's getting into the fall will be a little bit of

[4:28:18] ramp up on that. Um and following up with um what uh Commissioner Baitman

[4:28:23] said about Bright Speed. I've been communicating back and forth and I've

[4:28:26] included you guys in those emails as I've been um messaging with Mr. Brewer

[4:28:31] and I am sending out today two letters of information or requests from for

[4:28:37] information from the utilities commission and from the North Carolina

[4:28:40] Department of Information Technology. Um just requesting some clarification on

[4:28:45] Bright Speed's responsibility um what their responsibilities are as a

[4:28:50] private um company and then clarification on their grant funding

[4:28:53] that they have already received and how and when they're able to use that. So

[4:28:57] hopefully we'll get some response on that. Um

[4:29:01] Rob um mentioned the child care. I they have um put out um ads for a director

[4:29:07] position for the title um daycare um nonprofit on Hatter Island and they are

[4:29:14] also um currently working on the floors and the painting and that's almost

[4:29:17] complete. So that is moving forward well. Um we had with all this rain

[4:29:22] there's been some um flooding in Hatteris Village. [clears throat]

[4:29:25] There's a drainage system through Hatteris and there's and most of it is

[4:29:29] working properly, but there's one area in front of Sunny's restaurant at Willis

[4:29:34] Boat Landing where it's really clogged and it's it's pretty bad. It's um but

[4:29:39] I've we've been in talks with Tess and with um uh Ronnie and they have

[4:29:46] identified kind of where the issue is. So, that is being worked on and so um

[4:29:50] hopefully that will get taken care of. I've also um will be talking with Ethan

[4:29:54] about that and also with the crosswalks because the crosswalks have been a in

[4:29:59] the summertime it is especially at dark where all the ice cream shops are

[4:30:03] popping up everywhere. It's amazing how much. And then finally, and this is

[4:30:10] important one, um, for those of you that haven't heard, the CCA won a state case

[4:30:17] against um or the the CCA won a case against the state for not protecting our

[4:30:25] um fishing um resource. So, couple things have

[4:30:31] happened since then. Bob and I went to the NCAACCC and we were able to do a

[4:30:35] presentation on um the impacts of the fishing. We were able to talk to a lot

[4:30:41] of commissioners across the state about fishing and what that has kind of meant

[4:30:44] for us. So that was really a really um great experience. Um and we also on our

[4:30:50] way out were able to stop and speak at the MFC um meeting too and voice our

[4:30:55] concerns about how this case plays out. The thing that's kind of troubling and

[4:30:59] the judge has asked for both sides, which would be the state and the CCA to

[4:31:03] come back with a recommendation, nowhere in that

[4:31:08] does commercial fishing have a voice. And so now our fishing is going to be

[4:31:12] subjected to a court case. And it's kind of scary time if if you're trying to get

[4:31:18] your nets ready for pound net season, which my husband's been doing for

[4:31:21] several weeks now. And uh so it'll be interesting. We're going to have to be

[4:31:25] super diligent about that. I'm excited to see what comes out of the coalition

[4:31:29] meeting. I hope that we get a lot of attendance for that because it's getting

[4:31:33] ready to ramp up pretty pretty big. So, um, yep, it was a great, um, we Bobby

[4:31:38] Hanig, Jess Hawkins, my husband, and, um, and Bob were on the panel, and we

[4:31:43] did a panel discussion about how the coalition has worked to inform other

[4:31:49] commissioners and other and the public about the fishing issues in our um,

[4:31:53] coastal communities. And I think it was it was good. It was a really good

[4:31:59] a really good time. So that's all I got. >> Thank you. To piggyback on what Marie

[4:32:04] Ellen said, we um we got really really good feedback from the session. Um and

[4:32:10] it was taped. So have you checked on when that might be? They said it was

[4:32:16] going to they said it they said it was going to take I think two weeks but um

[4:32:20] Dorothy said we could get it up on the coalition website on the Dair County

[4:32:24] website. It'll be a YouTube video. So hope as soon as we get that back we'll

[4:32:28] » Yeah. [clears throat] So we to release it also really really happy to get in

[4:32:32] front of that audience at the NO annual convention and uh we'll

[4:32:38] we'll have this on our agenda for the uh coastal um fisheries coalition meeting

[4:32:46] uh I believe on the 16th I believe is that date.

[4:32:49] » Yes. Um and um then the county manager and I head into Raleigh to meet with our

[4:32:56] lobbyist on a couple of issues that next day. So stay tuned. We'll keep you

[4:33:01] posted on that. Uh unfortunately, and Lee, this this is his fifth year doing

[4:33:07] this and Lee's done a great job with this 911. Unfortunately, uh I'm out of

[4:33:14] town. I usually go out of town on September 11th because September 11th is

[4:33:20] my birthday and uh 911 is on my conscience all day

[4:33:26] long that day and thinking about those people. But normally I'm out of town on

[4:33:31] the 11th and um I'm unfortunately I will not be there but I will certainly be

[4:33:36] thinking about um you folks that are walking and thinking about uh the folks

[4:33:42] that we lost on 911. So with that being said, um

[4:33:47] » Mr. Chairman, >> we pardon

[4:33:49] » real quick. I just wanted to also say our our thoughts and prayers with Dewey

[4:33:53] uh right now in in hopefully uh on his way well well on his way hopefully on

[4:33:58] his way to recovery um you know after after what he's been through. So our

[4:34:03] thoughts and prayers are with him you know especially as much as we've talked

[4:34:06] about the commercial fishing industry and he is a huge advocate one of the

[4:34:10] biggest advocates for him. So >> I got one more. Absolutely. Thank you

[4:34:14] for bringing that. >> I got one thing to add to that that I

[4:34:17] forgot during mine. God forbid I forgot it. On September 12th at the home

[4:34:22] ministry center in W Cheese, we're going to be doing a big fundraiser for Dewey

[4:34:27] down there. They're doing barbecue plates.

[4:34:29] » Fantastic. >> And it's going to be a drive-thru thing.

[4:34:31] So, please tell everybody, you know, to go down there and we're going to try to

[4:34:34] raise some money for him and his family there.

[4:34:36] » Great. Thank you, Carson. Okay. With that being said, we need a

[4:34:41] motion to adjourn for close session. >> I need a motion for close session

[4:34:44] [snorts] pursuant to NCGS143-318 11 A3 to consult with an attorney

[4:34:50] employer retained by the county in order to preserve the attorney client

[4:34:52] privilege. >> So move motion on the floor by the vice

[4:34:55] chair. It's been seconded by Commissioner Burus. Any further

[4:34:58] discussion? Hearing none. Those in favor signify by saying I. I post second.

[4:35:03] Motion carries unanimous.

[4:35:07] I call the Dair County Board of Commissioners meeting back to order and

[4:35:10] I'll turn it over to county manager. >> Sure. In the close session, the board

[4:35:14] approved the minutes of the last close session and authorized me to come before

[4:35:18] you to ask forward you a motion to approve outside council because I have a

[4:35:24] conflict to uh proceed with enforcement action with regard to the matter Casey

[4:35:30] McFersonson. This is with regard to zoning, building code, and fire code

[4:35:35] ordinances. So moved. >> Is there a second?

[4:35:39] » Second. >> Second. Madam vice chair.

[4:35:42] Floor is open for discussion. Hearing none. Those in favor signify by saying

[4:35:46] I. I. >> I. Oppos like sign. Motion carries

[4:35:50] unanimous. Thank you lady and gentlemen for a great

[4:35:55] meeting today. We need to a motion to adjourn until October the 5th at 900

[4:36:01] a.m. >> Motion to adjurnn.

[4:36:03] » Motion on the floor by Commissioner Balance.

[4:36:05] » Second. Second by Commissioner Burus. Further discussion hearing? None. Those

[4:36:09] in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Oppos like sent.

September 1, 2026 Dare County Board of Commissioners Meeting

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