[11:00] One, we're now going to ask staff to begin recording

[11:02] the meeting. We're good. This meeting is being live streamed

[11:06] and publicly broadcast. The recording of this meeting will also

[11:08] be available on our website in the future. We'll call

[11:11] this meeting to order at nine o'clock. We will begin

[11:14] by sharing the land acknowledgement statement. We would like to

[11:16] begin by respectfully acknowledging that Denver County resides within the

[11:19] traditional territory and ancestral lands of the TNT. Attawader on

[11:24] Hodenoshoni and Inishinaabe peoples. We also acknowledge that various municipalities

[11:28] within the County of Duffrin reside within the treaty lands

[11:30] named under the Haldeminded of 1784, and two of the

[11:34] Williams treaties of 1818, treaty 18, the Nautilus Saga purchase

[11:37] and treaty 19, the Agitant's treaty. These traditional territories upon

[11:41] which we live and learn are steeped and rich indigenous

[11:43] history and traditions. It is with this statement that we

[11:46] declare to honour and respect the past and present connection

[11:49] of indigenous people with this land is waterways and resources.

[11:52] I'll now ask the clerk to do the roll call.

[11:54] Thank you, Warden. Councillor Krillman. Present. Councillor Garthouse.

[12:03] Here. Councillor Garrett. Councillor Hall is absent. Councillor Hawkins present.

[12:13] Councillor. Little. Present. Councillor Mills is running late. Councillor Nix.

[12:23] Here. Councillor Wrench is absent. Councillor Solomon. Is online Councillor

[12:32] Taylor. Present. Councillor White. Present. And Warden Post present. Thank

[12:37] you. Can I have a motion please to approve the

[12:39] agenda and the addendum for today? Councillor Taylor and Councillor

[12:43] Nyx. Any questions or comments? All in favor. And that's

[12:46] carried. Members may declare any pecuniary interest now or at

[12:49] any time through the meeting. Was there any pecuniary interest?

[12:51] Councillor Taylor. Yes. I had to declare a conflict. I

[12:55] think it's apologised. I don't have 10. 2. Thank you.

[12:58] And the reason being is a member of my family

[13:01] works for the County. Councillor Taylor. Was there any other

[13:05] declarations of conflict. Okay. Seeing none. Can I have a

[13:08] motion please to adopt the minutes of the statutory public

[13:11] meeting and regular meeting of Council from September 10. Councillor

[13:15] Taylor and Councillor White all in favor. And that is

[13:18] carried. We will move into proclamations delegations and presentations. We

[13:23] will have one come up on the screen there. I

[13:25] hereby proclaim September 30th as every child matters day in

[13:29] the County of Duffyn. There will be a flag raised

[13:31] at the Dufferin County Administration Office to honour the day

[13:34] on the 30th. Thank you very much for that one.

[13:38] Next we will officially proclaim the month of October 2026

[13:41] to be early Childhood Educator and Child Care Worker Appreciation

[13:45] Month in the County of Duffrin. I'd like to invite

[13:47] Sarah early years and Child Care Manager to come forward

[13:50] and accept the proclamation. Sarah, did you have anything you

[13:53] wanted to say first? Okay, perfect.

[14:25] Okay. Unfortunately, it looks like our first delegation was unable

[14:29] to attend today. That was regarding the homelessness crisis in

[14:32] Dufferin County. Um, so we will move on to the

[14:36] Food Bank Update. And I would like to welcome Heather

[14:38] Hayes, Executive Director of the Orange Bill Food Bank to

[14:40] provide an annual update on the local Food Bank usage

[14:43] and the current state of Hunger and our community and

[14:45] in the province. Come on up Heather. Y'all set up

[14:47] there in the middle. Yep. Sorry right in the middle

[14:54] there Heather. Yep.

[15:06] Just to turn your mic. There we go. Perfect. Okay.

[15:13] Um, thanks so much for having me today. I appreciate

[15:15] your time. Um, we have a presentation in front of

[15:19] the screen, but I wanted to do something a little

[15:20] different today. Um, I'm sure you've had a chance to

[15:23] read it. It's, uh, it's not great. Um, but I

[15:28] wanted to start off my presentation differently this year. So

[15:30] I wanted to state that the world is generally a

[15:33] good place. That we're fortunate to live in Canada. That

[15:36] people have good intentions and they do well if they

[15:39] can. The sunrise was glorious. This morning if you got

[15:42] a chance to see it. And the community cares about

[15:45] its neighbours or we at the Food Bank wouldn't exist.

[15:49] And we're fortunate to have all of you working on

[15:52] behalf of the residents of the county. This is not

[15:55] an easy job. And, uh, slings narrows and all the

[15:59] good things that go with it. And I say this

[16:01] in my presentation this year, because it never gets easier

[16:04] for me to give this. I'm 12 coming up on

[16:07] 12 years in on this job. Um, most of you

[16:10] have some sort of relationship with me. You know me

[16:13] from, from my past work. Um, and generally I'm an

[16:17] optimistic person. But after this many years giving this presentation,

[16:22] um, I feel like I'm only leaving you with negatives,

[16:26] um, when I come out of the presentation like this.

[16:28] And I've done Grand Valley already, um, East Gary and

[16:33] leaving that. I'm like, woohoo Ray of Sunshine. She is.

[16:38] So as I was writing this, um, and preparing to

[16:41] talk to you guys today, um, I started off by

[16:45] writing, um, I had a privilege of delegating to minister

[16:49] Bethanhalvi regarding the Ontario budget. While optimistic, I'm also fully

[16:53] aware that my three minutes moved the needle. What I'm

[16:57] meant to write was, I believe that my three minutes

[17:01] did not move the needle. It's three minutes in a

[17:04] room full of people. You've been there. It's, you know,

[17:06] it's a bit of a firing line. Um, and I

[17:09] started erasing it this morning. I was typing madly and

[17:12] going, Oh gosh, can't say that. Um, and then I

[17:15] stopped. And I thought, no, no, no, my three minutes

[17:19] did matter. Okay. Like all of our three minutes in

[17:22] this world regarding whatever issue that we have. Mine is

[17:26] Food insecurity. And I will always be a voice for

[17:29] Food insecurity. Couple of months ago, I was, uh, in

[17:33] the ice cream room, uh, which is what we call

[17:35] the break room because we pay people in ice cream.

[17:38] And I'm there and I whip out my portable soapbox

[17:41] set it up and I start going off. Um, and

[17:44] a very gentle staff, um, person of mine, a lovely

[17:48] man, um, was sitting eating his lunch doesn't say a

[17:51] whole lot. And then all of a sudden he starts

[17:53] doing this. Stirring the pot and I was like, whoops.

[17:58] Okay. Time to pack up that soapbox and head out.

[18:02] And, and I thanked him later on, um, for the

[18:04] gentle reminder that sometimes I'm a lot and maybe I

[18:07] don't always have to be the biggest voice in the

[18:09] room. And then later on, um, he came back to

[18:13] me and said, you know, I didn't mean that. What

[18:16] I meant was stirring the pot is a good thing.

[18:19] And so I'm coming here today. I'm going to talk

[18:21] about food insecurity, not a rosy picture, but I also

[18:26] want to reaffirm that stirring the pod is not a

[18:28] bad thing. Having conversations, pulling up new ideas, working together

[18:33] to find a different way. You at the county, us

[18:36] at the Food Bank, at all of your municipalities, you're

[18:40] doing the absolute best that you can with what you

[18:42] have. Right. And often the issues that you face that

[18:46] often issues I face are not always in our purview

[18:50] to be able to change. Okay. But speaking up and

[18:53] saying your peace and trying to find new ways to

[18:56] engage, I think is important. So thank you for being

[19:00] those voices for us out in the community. Um, and

[19:03] I thank all the people attached to the food bank

[19:05] for their voices, uh, to make a better world and

[19:08] to do better than we're doing right now. So, okay.

[19:11] It's fine. Now it's all fine. All right. Moving on.

[19:14] Um, okay. So I'll pop back to the, uh, delegation,

[19:17] uh, to the little thing on the screen, wherever that

[19:19] happens to be. And thank you to whoever's tech savvy

[19:23] enough to pull this off. Awesome. And I'm not pushing

[19:26] these buttons, I assume. Right. Awesome. Okay. If we could

[19:29] move to the next screen, please. All right. So, um,

[19:33] reconciliation. As I mentioned last year, um, we gave up,

[19:37] uh, doing a land acknowledgement. We have one. It was

[19:41] written with brave canoe. We appreciate it. Um, but it

[19:44] wasn't really doing what we thought it needed to do.

[19:47] It was becoming, um, words in the back of our

[19:49] head as opposed to something we lived. So we now

[19:53] introduce a new Inishinabe word on a regular basis. We

[19:56] don't always get it right. Uh, to be fair. Um,

[19:59] but if we're standing on these lands, perhaps we should

[20:02] learn a little of the language of the lands we

[20:04] inhabitant. So, uh, Giza Weniman is, I appreciate you in

[20:10] brackets. I love you. So, um, cause I do. So

[20:14] moving on. Please. And thank you. Um, so year over

[20:18] year usage, um, another bizarre chart. You can see one

[20:22] of the things that always strikes me about this chart

[20:24] is A, the need goes up year over year. But

[20:27] B, you'll notice that, uh, the dark green or light

[20:30] green says COVID, little word there. Um, and that was

[20:36] when the pandemic was declared. And when, um, uh, income

[20:41] replacement was introduced, the need of the Food Bank drops

[20:45] substantially when the income, uh, support was removed, the need

[20:49] continued to grow. We actually do know how to fix

[20:51] this problem because it's an income - based problem. It

[20:54] is not, um, a people problem. Food insecurity is a

[20:58] policy failure. It's not a person failure. So since 2022,

[21:03] we've seen an 84 percent increase in need banana pants.

[21:07] If you want to flip to the next screen. Awesome.

[21:10] So this year we have distributed 700, 000 pounds of

[21:15] food out to clients and community partners. We just did

[21:18] a little bit of math for another grant that we're

[21:20] writing. And since 2011, we've actually moved 4 million pounds

[21:24] of food out of the food to the community. Uh,

[21:28] 235 pounds of that was purchased because our donations have

[21:32] dropped by 11 percent this year If you look at

[21:35] the numbers from 2021, there's been an 88 percent increase

[21:38] in need. Um, If you look at the increase in

[21:41] donations from 2021, there's been a 22 percent increase. We

[21:47] cannot donate our way out of this problem. Uh, 72

[21:50] percent of what we distributed was perishable, including milk eggs,

[21:53] produce, and proteins. Um, and last year, 25, 000 plus

[21:57] visits came through Orangeville and the Grand Valley Food Banks.

[22:02] Um, some of the steerer ones, 20 percent increase of

[22:08] inflation. And 32 percent of our visitors are working with

[22:12] 33 percent being kiddos. So if you want to pop

[22:16] to the next one, please and thank you. Uh, Operations

[22:20] some of the things that people don't know about the

[22:21] food bank about three years ago we had to make

[22:24] a decision our building was not big enough to support

[22:27] Um, all the people coming in. And so instead of

[22:31] people to the food, we had decided to get food

[22:34] to the people. So we started really making sure that

[22:37] we moved food out into the community. So that is,

[22:40] um, making sure we had delivery supports for those who

[22:43] aren't mobile. The community markets that operate in Shelburne Grand

[22:46] Valley and Orangeville, um, with a sliding scale, uh, produce

[22:51] piece to that. The three vending machines that we have

[22:54] in the community, which this year distributed about 12, 000,

[22:58] um, 11, 600 meals to be precise out into the

[23:01] community for a dollar, uh, we guarantee personal and menstrual

[23:05] hygiene does not get to dodge that bullet and it's

[23:10] expensive. We have community garden. Uh, we supported about 700

[23:13] people in our senior market. We rescue food from all

[23:17] the grocery stores and with our community kitchen, we're able

[23:20] to process that rescued food as well as, um, once

[23:26] again, the zucchini fairies have visited the food bank, um,

[23:29] and helps us process the zucchini that comes in. Please,

[23:32] please, please 30 pound zucchinis aren't funny. Stop it. Um,

[23:36] the, and then also to support our operations and grand

[23:39] valley. We have 270 volunteers that support food bank. They

[23:42] give about 2, 800 hours. Um, a month to the

[23:45] food bank and it works out to 16 full -

[23:47] time staff, uh, at the Food Bank. It is incredible

[23:50] to do what we do. Um, requires staffing. It requires

[23:54] buildings. It requires facilities and cold storage. We are not

[23:58] acute little knot for profit. We are moving hundreds of

[24:02] thousands of pounds through the Food Bank safely and feeding

[24:05] the residents. And that has to be done in a

[24:08] safe and dignified manner. And that requires resources at the

[24:11] end of the day. Um, so if we want to

[24:15] pop off to the next slide, that'd be awesome. Great.

[24:18] So those are some of the stats I talked about.

[24:20] I did miss the X for the meals. It was

[24:22] 11, 600. Our community market supported 1500 people, uh, throughout

[24:27] the county and our seniors market, um, supported over 700

[24:31] people, um, in the community, as well as our community

[24:34] food share, which supports agencies like, um, uh, FTP and

[24:39] choices, all the variations of, of choices. Um, the lighthouse,

[24:44] the other food pantries in town with about 74, 000

[24:48] pounds of food that goes out as well. We do

[24:50] that because food only comes to us in skids. And

[24:55] after a while, you can't give away Frank's Red Hot

[24:58] Fishcrackers. Just can't be done. So with those community partners,

[25:01] we're able to move and rotate food. Um, through the

[25:04] food bank. So if you want to pop to the

[25:06] next one, please and thank you. Grand Valley, I think

[25:10] most of you know that we, uh, we, we're graced

[25:13] with the offer in 2024 of Grand Valley joining our

[25:16] operation. Um, we were lucky enough last year that we

[25:20] were able to take on 27 Main Street North, which

[25:23] is the old schoolhouse, um, in Grand Valley. We have

[25:28] a lease for that building. And with some support from

[25:31] RBC and the JB Bickle Foundation, um, we were able

[25:34] to add a vending machine to the Grand Valley library.

[25:37] And we're also able to host agencies at the Food

[25:40] Bank right now. And we host care days with the

[25:43] OHT, ODSP is there on weekly basis. And the Alzheimer

[25:46] Society of Duffrin is in there on a monthly, um,

[25:49] basis in order to ensure that residents in Grand Valley

[25:53] have access to services because transportation is an issue in

[25:57] any rural community. So if you want to pop to

[25:59] the next one, please. And thank you. So Food Security

[26:04] is a community issue. I've mentioned that. It is a

[26:06] failure of policy, not a failure of people. How do

[26:09] we have an impact on that? We can talk about

[26:12] affordable housing. I understand that it is not the purview

[26:15] of municipal government that it should land provincially and federally.

[26:20] We still have to support people. We still have to

[26:22] have those conversations, uh, appropriate transportation that we are so

[26:25] blessed in Orangeville to have free transportation, but it's still

[26:30] difficult for people in rural areas to access services, um,

[26:33] and how do we help that? How do we make

[26:34] sure that they have the services that they need in

[26:36] their communities? And when we're planning and developing partnerships, how

[26:41] do we put food security into those, um, discussions? Because

[26:45] it's critical. Without food, people can't thrive. Your community cannot

[26:49] thrive. And strong communities will build a better system. Okay.

[26:55] Even if it's not ours to build, not for profits

[26:58] have been handling food insecurity for 30 some odd years.

[27:03] And it was never hours to hold. But food security

[27:05] lands at no level of government and no ministry. And

[27:09] that's wrong. Absolutely wrong. So moving on to the next

[27:13] slide, which I think is my, um, yes. So this

[27:17] is a lovely volunteer. Um, he's been with us for

[27:21] probably close to a decade now. Uh, he was digging,

[27:25] um, and planting at the different garden centre of sadly

[27:27] no longer with us and dug up this beautiful heart

[27:30] - shaped potato. It was very excited about it. He's

[27:32] also one of our top fundraisers for coldest night of

[27:34] the year. Um, he's there weekly. And we treasure his

[27:39] volunteering. So I wanted to end with a quote. Hunger

[27:43] is not a problem. It's an obscenity. So let me

[27:46] say that again. It's an obscenity. We live in Canada.

[27:53] How wonderful it would be that nobody need to wait

[27:55] a single moment before we start to improve this world.

[27:58] So thank you for being part of that improvement. I,

[28:01] again, I know I come all sunshine and lollipops of

[28:04] these presentations. And I apologise for that. But we have

[28:06] to start, continue. Um, move forward the conversation on Food

[28:12] Insecurity because it's not getting any better. And it's affecting

[28:15] the people that you serve. If you can't eat, you

[28:18] can't think if you can't think you can't get a

[28:20] job. If you can't get a job, you can't take

[28:22] care of yourself, your people. It starts at the very

[28:25] beginning of feeding people. So thank you so much. What

[28:29] another lively presentation by Heather. So don't go anywhere yet.

[28:33] Heather. Thank you for your presentation. There are some questions

[28:35] from council. We'll start with Councillor McClain. Great. Thank you.

[28:39] And thank you Heather for the presentation. And please don't

[28:42] apologise. I think, um, hearing the raw truth is incredibly

[28:46] helpful. And we need to hear this from time to

[28:48] time. Um, I've got a couple of comments. The first

[28:52] is that food security is one of those rare policy

[28:55] files that no single level of government actually owns, let

[28:59] alone a specific ministry. And because nobody's directly accountable for

[29:02] funding it, we end up in the exact mess that

[29:04] we're in right now. Right. We've got underfunded programs and

[29:07] a lot of finger pointing between the municipal provincial and

[29:10] federal governments. Um, at the end of the day, I

[29:13] think this is a provincial responsibility. I think it belongs

[29:16] to MCCSS right alongside their other course social service spending.

[29:21] Um, but I think the real problem that we're up

[29:24] against is both the federal government and the provinces have

[29:27] really shifted their focus almost entirely to economic issues. And

[29:31] I'm seeing this in my own full - time work.

[29:34] Where social policy has been pushed to the back burner.

[29:37] And so I think we as a community, not just

[29:41] the nonprofit community, but, uh, our local governments as well.

[29:45] We need to really, uh, change our approach. And so

[29:48] a couple of things that I would want counsel to

[29:51] consider as we move forward is looking at how we

[29:54] could do joint advocacy with our frontline service provider. So

[29:57] we're actually speaking with one unified voice. I also really

[30:02] believe that we should look at hiring a government relations

[30:05] official, either full time or halftime, uh, to actually drive

[30:09] this work forward. Um, having a dedicated official in the

[30:13] office of the CAO that can help us with advocacy

[30:16] that has a government relations background, I think would be

[30:19] an incredible value add and a great investment. And as

[30:22] part of that, I think we need to do more

[30:24] than just show up to Roma and AMO, um, for

[30:27] our 15 minutes with, with ministers. That's a very, um,

[30:34] passive approach. I think we really need to come up

[30:37] with a government relations strategy on things like food security

[30:41] on things like homelessness, um, and other priorities that we

[30:44] have. And have a strategy around it so that we're

[30:47] regularly going down to Queen's Park and we're meeting with

[30:49] ministers throughout the year. We're not just waiting for August

[30:54] and January. So those are my comments. I think again,

[30:58] Heather, it's, it's a delight to have you in, um,

[31:01] we need to hear this messaging, but I think at

[31:04] the county level, we need to have a plan for

[31:06] this to support you and others in our community. Thank

[31:11] you, Councillor McClain. Well said absolutely agree. Was there any

[31:14] other questions for members of council. Councillor Nix. Yeah. I

[31:19] just had a question, but first, thanks Heather for, uh,

[31:22] presentation. I remember when you started the job, your goal

[31:26] was to close the doors of the Food Bank. And

[31:29] obviously that's not working. It's not your fault. My question

[31:32] was simply this. Okay. 25, 000 visits. That's not, that's

[31:36] visits. That's not unique individuals. No unique individuals is 1600

[31:40] people a month, give or take. Um, unique individuals. That's

[31:43] right. And they're coming between nine and 10 times in

[31:46] a year. Okay. Okay. So that's okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[31:50] Okay. Makes sense. I just wanted to make sure I

[31:52] was interpreting the 25, 000 correctly. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank

[31:57] you, Councillor Nix. Any other questions or comments for members

[31:59] of Council. No. Oh, councillor little. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

[32:04] I'm just wanted to make a comment, um, thank you

[32:07] Heather once again for your words and for bringing this

[32:10] issue forward. I think it is a concern to all

[32:14] of us and there are perhaps other, um, options. We

[32:18] should be doing, uh, support you with your words. Thank

[32:22] you for the three minutes or whatever time. And you

[32:25] take when you make your presentations, those words are always

[32:28] very important. So I just want to encourage you to

[32:30] continue on that, uh, vein. Because silence is not the

[32:34] answer either. So, um, I just, I wanted to add

[32:38] my thanks for all the work that you do. And

[32:40] for the work that you have done to make that

[32:42] Food Bank as strong and end as vibrant as it

[32:46] currently is to serve the community, the wonderful, um, initiatives

[32:49] you have taken. So thank you for that Heather. Okay.

[32:52] Group effort. Thank you, Councillor Little. Anything else. Okay. Thank

[32:56] you for being here. Heather always appreciate your presentations. Okay.

[32:59] Thank you. Take care. Take care. Be well, be safe.

[33:01] Thank you. We'll move into public question period. Was there

[33:04] anyone in the gallery who had a question regarding an

[33:06] item on the agenda. Okay. Not seeing any. We will

[33:11] move into the consent agenda, which we don't have today

[33:13] because all of the reports have already been pulled. So

[33:16] we will move right into 10. 1, which is the

[33:19] E - Scare Fraxa OPA Councillor Nyx. You pulled that

[33:22] one. Yes. And I just have a couple of related

[33:26] questions to the, uh, physical plan in East Gara Frax.

[33:31] One, I wanted to know how many lower tier municipalities.

[33:35] In different have actually changed their official plan to be

[33:37] in accord with OP number four. That's the first question.

[33:40] Let me ask both questions at the same. Yeah. Go

[33:42] ahead. And if, if a municipality such as mine hasn't

[33:47] got their official plan up to date with the counties,

[33:49] OP number four, can we, because it's a lot of

[33:53] work to change an official plan. Can we wait until

[33:56] OP number five is done. And then, and then do

[33:58] everything together. Those are my two questions. Rush, I'll turn

[34:01] over to you through you warden post. Um, so as

[34:04] of right now, we have Grand Valley E - Scare

[34:07] Fraxa and Malmur, um, that have submitted their completed OPs

[34:11] in accordance with OP number four or the MCR process.

[34:15] Um, in regards to your second question, uh, yes, obviously

[34:19] we don't want for the lower tiers to be doing

[34:21] additional work if it's not needed. All that we would

[34:24] ask is to be able to demonstrate that there are

[34:27] conformity exercises being done. Because, um, right now, if you're

[34:31] not in conformity with the completed MCR process, then that

[34:38] tends to be a lot of work. We just want

[34:39] to see that there is some progression. We are hosting

[34:43] numerous meetings with all the lower tiers and working through

[34:45] all of the questions that they may have. But, um,

[34:48] if you want to hold off for a final submission

[34:51] after OPA5 is done, then that's absolutely fine. Um, because

[34:56] we, we don't want to create more work and also

[34:58] create more of a financial burden. Okay. Councillor Garrett's. Thanks.

[35:08] It asked a couple of questions of staff. And so

[35:10] I just wanted to highlight a couple, I think it's

[35:12] less brief scare fracts and more for our OPA five,

[35:17] which is a few sections where, um, we've referenced that

[35:21] there should be an identified need for, for the removal

[35:25] of lands from employment or an identified need for something,

[35:29] but we don't specify who gets the final decision on

[35:33] that. And I think it would be good to, to

[35:35] reference, um, who's making that decision so that an applicant,

[35:41] um, can't argue that if their consultant says there's an

[35:45] identified need that should be the, the only bar that

[35:48] needs to be satisfied. So I think we should just

[35:51] highlighting that further room. Um, and similarly, you know, when

[35:56] we reference qualified professionals for certain things, um, what, what,

[36:02] uh, qualifications go along with that. So thanks. Rush, do

[36:08] you want to take that? Uh, three warden post. Yes.

[36:11] So in our definition section, we will identify, um, in

[36:15] terms of qualified personnel, what we would consider to be

[36:18] qualified personnel. Um, and in addition, uh, your first question,

[36:23] um, we are highlighting within OPA five that it is

[36:27] a collaborative effort, not just the county deciding or the

[36:30] lower tier deciding, but a collaboration. Is that good Councillor

[36:35] Garrett. Okay. Councillor Garthouse. Okay. Thank you. Um, I, my,

[36:43] I guess what I'm just wanting some clarification on process.

[36:46] So because we're doing OPA five, then if there's little

[36:51] some details here, what's presented here. Sometimes we just need

[36:55] clarification, get used to the, uh, how it's going to

[36:58] be implemented, but there'll be time to, I guess, make

[37:00] further amendments. And, um, is that a, is that realistic.

[37:06] Rush. Um, sorry, councillor guardhouse. Can you just clarify further

[37:11] amendments to the plan that's been submitted that we're the,

[37:15] for the report today? Or yes, correct. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

[37:19] So you can. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council Horner.

[37:31] Raj, through you, Warden. Rush, I see that, uh, 35

[37:37] kind of corrections have been made on this. And, um,

[37:42] I'm just trying to figure out, is that a lot

[37:45] or is that a little bit? And I think it

[37:49] probably shows that we really require the upper tier oversight

[37:56] on this. And in order for everyone's, um, official plans,

[38:02] even if they've been developed by consultant to align with

[38:06] each other. And I just found 35 being an extraordinary

[38:11] high number. Am I right on that. Rush? Uh, three

[38:16] warden posts. So just to clarify the 35 mods that

[38:19] were submitted were mainly grammatical in nature and also to

[38:23] align with definitions and terms that have been changed or

[38:26] updated as a result of legislation that was passed. So

[38:30] there is a lot of time that's elapsed typically between,

[38:34] um, between, I guess, updates between, um, official plans. And

[38:37] as a result, we just want to ensure that we

[38:39] can catch all the conformity issues within the submissions. So

[38:44] 35, while it does seem like a high number does

[38:46] also include grammatical, um, issues that we've identified as well

[38:50] as sort of definitions that have changed over time with

[38:52] policy updates. The other question, if I may, um, so

[38:59] there's a line in there. And I'm trying to find

[39:02] it. I just can't find it at the moment, but

[39:04] talks about, um, trying to keep development, um, land open

[39:13] for commercial uses on roadways. Is that, um, in thinking

[39:19] about the proposal that we had, uh, at the public

[39:23] meeting. So is that the kind of thing that, that

[39:27] is directing that that development be at those roadways and

[39:33] not, um, be switched from an employment into residential. Is

[39:38] that the kind of thing that we've got now in

[39:41] this plane post. Um, so yes, you are correct. We're

[39:46] trying to encourage through land use policy where that growth

[39:49] is going to go. So that way we don't end

[39:51] up with, um, applications or submissions where we're taking residential

[39:55] or we're taking employment and converting it to residential. Um,

[39:58] and this is also to promote just the nature of

[40:00] what Dufferin County is in terms of highway commercial, um,

[40:04] because we do see that as a trend moving forward

[40:07] and more of a need for the community. Thank you.

[40:11] Councillor Garthouse. Uh, thank you as a follow - up

[40:14] by this, uh, obviously came up at our East Gary

[40:18] Council meeting, um, and overall we were very pleased with

[40:22] the review and how it's gone. And we thought 35

[40:27] modifications wasn't that high because most of it, as you

[40:30] said, Raj was, was housekeeping, uh, we thought I was

[40:34] an excellent job overall was comments from the township. Thank

[40:37] you. Thank you, Councillor Garthouse. Any other questions or comments

[40:42] on this item. Can I get a motion for the

[40:45] recommendation in the report, please? Council Horner and Councillor Nyx,

[40:49] any final questions, all in favor. And that is carried

[40:54] for item 10. 2 councillor Taylor. I'll have you leave

[40:56] the room, please. That's the one you've declared conflict on.

[41:06] Yeah. I know. Okay. The recommendation and the report is

[41:15] that the report from the manager of Corporate Finances, uh,

[41:18] cost of living adjustment be received and that the cost

[41:20] of living adjustment for 2027 be said at 2. 44

[41:23] with an effective date of January 1st, 2027. Can I

[41:26] get a mover in a second or please. Councillor Mills

[41:31] and Councillor White. Any questions or comments on this one.

[41:34] All in favor. And that is carried. We'll get Councillor

[41:39] Taylor back in.

[42:11] Okay. So we will move into 10. 3, which is

[42:13] the budget management policy. It was Councillor Taylor who pulled

[42:17] that one. So I will turn it over to you

[42:18] for your questions, Councillor Taylor. Um, thank you very much,

[42:22] Warden. Um, as with, I read that report, I did

[42:26] have time to speak with our CIO this morning and

[42:28] get further clarity. However, it felt like it wasn't news

[42:32] to me. I wasn't grasping really what we were trying

[42:35] to do in the report. It circled for me and

[42:39] I apologise, but I just didn't understand what the report

[42:41] was trying to get at. And the naturon a little

[42:44] bit further, why it was important to me is, um,

[42:48] Councillor McClain had put through emotion that we would look

[42:53] at our budget differently as we move forward. And it

[42:57] was exactly what I was looking for the entire time

[42:59] I was sitting here. And this is a regurgitation for

[43:02] the CO, but I want everybody to hear what my

[43:03] thoughts were. Um, when I sat here in year one,

[43:07] this is your four now at Council is we're going

[43:09] to finish this. In year one, I said, Oh, I'll

[43:12] prove the budget because all of you are more knowledgeable

[43:16] about the institution than I am. I was learning, but

[43:19] I didn't understand it. It was really difficult for me

[43:22] to grasp what we were doing. In year two, I

[43:26] felt like I understood it a little bit better, but

[43:27] it was still difficult. And the way it's presented is,

[43:31] is hard. And now at year four, I just don't

[43:35] want to, I don't want to enable it any further.

[43:37] It's not a good process what we've been doing. Um,

[43:40] I'm excited about what the future will bring, but the

[43:43] report itself, I just, it just felt like I know

[43:47] what this is. I understand it, but I don't know

[43:49] where we're going. And I just think it's important to

[43:52] not let it go by and we should discuss it.

[43:55] And I'm sure if it's vanilla to me, maybe it's

[43:57] vanilla to other people too. And Zana, do you want

[44:01] to take some of those questions. Thank you through you,

[44:04] Warden Post. So thank you for raising the questions, Councillor

[44:07] Taylor. The budget process that we've identified in the budget

[44:10] policy is really about the internal process here and how

[44:13] we will put together the budget. We have not had

[44:16] a policy around how those pieces come together, what the

[44:19] internal systems need to look like. And we're continuing to

[44:22] build on that. This will be part of what becomes

[44:25] a larger long - term financial strategy for the county

[44:29] that we need to work on. And we need to

[44:31] continue to add pieces. So this is the first step

[44:34] is the budget policy. The piece you're speaking about, and

[44:37] I think the completion between the two is the budget

[44:41] package, what council sees in terms of when they have

[44:44] to approve the budget and how that's laid out, how

[44:47] navigating that document. I've heard has been challenging in terms

[44:50] of having to flip through pages, trying to figure out

[44:52] what the overall number is. So Amy and I have

[44:55] been looking at what are some of the best practices

[44:58] we're seeing around the province in terms of how budget

[45:01] packages are visually laid out for a council to comprehend

[45:04] all of the moving pieces in a large and complex

[45:07] budget like our own. And in those one - on

[45:10] - ones that we talked about, we'd like to present

[45:12] for like maybe our top three options to you as

[45:14] council members. And then we will develop our packages to

[45:18] be presented in that way so that they will drive

[45:21] understanding and clarity. We want you when you're approving the

[45:24] budget to feel extremely comfortable. But understanding it and what

[45:28] you're approving and what you're not approving. And we know

[45:30] that work needs to be done in terms of historically

[45:32] how it's been presented and how we could present it

[45:35] out both to the Council and to the public to

[45:37] drive that transparency. So those are the two pieces, an

[45:41] internal process. In terms of the governance and the policies

[45:45] around the creation of the budget policy. And then the

[45:49] package that Council sees and the public sees. And finally,

[45:52] the budget document is also another piece that we're working

[45:55] on. This year you'll see quite a few edits and

[45:57] substantial changes in terms of what is going out to

[46:00] the public, um, the plain language that we're using to

[46:03] communicate it. Some of the visuals and graphs that we're

[46:05] trying to invest in to make it much more clear

[46:08] for everyone and bear with us, it's year one and

[46:11] we came into the process where the budget was already

[46:14] sort of in process. So there will be continuous improvement

[46:17] along those lines, but these are the investments we're making

[46:19] for this year. So I hope that that helps drive

[46:23] some further clarity. Yeah. Okay. Councillor McClain. Yeah. Uh, so

[46:28] thank you. And, uh, a big thank you to Antoinette

[46:31] and to Amy for pulling this together. I think, um,

[46:35] I think it puts the necessary pieces together in a

[46:39] framework, which is going to be absolutely critical. Um, and

[46:44] I think to councillor Taylor's point, I think this will

[46:47] become a little bit, hopefully become a little bit more

[46:49] real when we see the actual like plan that will

[46:52] flow out of this. Um, I like the idea of

[46:56] moving towards earlier budget engagement process, like perhaps starting it

[47:00] in the summer. Or members of Council can start to

[47:03] talk about priorities and items that we would like to

[47:05] include. And that can start to be built in earlier.

[47:08] And the perhaps other engagement that we could do. Um,

[47:11] but I really like the idea of having a list

[47:15] in the budget document itself about what are our mandatory

[47:19] services that we have to provide and what are the

[47:21] costs associated with that. And then right beside that, what

[47:24] are the discretionary services that we can choose to fund.

[47:28] And what are those costs? And I think that's the

[47:31] piece for me that's been missing. It's always been spread

[47:33] out across the package. And so having all of those,

[47:36] especially discretionary services in one spot would be incredibly helpful

[47:40] because then we as a council can determine what it

[47:42] is we can afford. Um, and then having it clearer

[47:45] budget, uh, document. The last point I'll share is just

[47:50] around, uh, limitations on in your budget adjustments. I think,

[47:54] um, with respect to all my colleagues around the table,

[47:58] there's, there could be a tendency for us to get

[48:01] ourselves into a little bit of trouble if we're making

[48:03] in your budget decisions, um, particularly because we haven't always

[48:07] had a more Folsom analysis of what that would mean

[48:11] to the full budget if we approve. Um, a major

[48:16] budget item in year. And so as we move forward,

[48:19] I'm excited to see that anytime there is an opportunity

[48:22] to make an in - your - budget adjustment that

[48:24] will get a more fulsome analysis of what this would

[48:27] mean, not only for the coming budget, but for future

[48:30] budgets as well. Um, I do have a question for

[48:33] Amy. And Amy, you kind of, I think, mentioned when

[48:37] we were kind of conversing before this meeting. But, um,

[48:40] in the document, in the policy, it says, uh, any

[48:43] significant unplanned funding requests considered by Council shall be deferred

[48:48] to the following year's budget process. Um, what would we

[48:52] consider significant? Like would it be worth putting a dollar

[48:55] figure on that? Because what may be significant for me

[48:58] may be very different from another member of council. Amy.

[49:05] Thank you, through you, warden post. Um, that's a great

[49:07] question. And we kind of went back and forth on

[49:09] that, whether to put a dollar amount in there, um,

[49:12] because it may have a small, it may be a

[49:15] small dollar amount now, but be something significant in the

[49:18] future. So that's why we kind of left that a

[49:21] little bit broad right now. Like it's a policy that

[49:23] will be reviewed regularly. So, um, yeah, the idea is

[49:27] kind of. We'll sort through it as we, as we

[49:31] go through and move forward, but it's definitely an area

[49:33] we will want to refine. And we just put that

[49:36] in there for now. That makes sense. I think, Antieta

[49:40] wants to add to that as well. Thank you through

[49:43] you, Wardenpost to add further. Claire Day, I think what

[49:45] Amy's alluding to as we may accept something that has,

[49:49] uh, let's say make a decision and the impact for

[49:51] this year is, I don't, I'll say 50, 000. And

[49:54] Mac doesn't seem significant, but that sets us on a

[49:56] course where the next year, maybe 500, 000, a million

[50:00] dollars. And so that's why we're struggling with what is

[50:03] the right threshold? Cause that year one threshold will be,

[50:06] well, we're going to enter into a partnership agreement. I

[50:10] don't, I'll say maybe the hub comes to mind. And

[50:12] so think, okay, good intentions, maybe limited budget, but then

[50:16] that actually evolves and becomes something quite larger in nature

[50:20] from a budgetary perspective. So there isn't a threshold that

[50:23] seems right. At this moment because sometimes things enter in

[50:27] a slow way, but snowball into something significant. So it's

[50:31] a piece that Amy and I wanted to sit with

[50:32] a little bit more. And then further discuss in those

[50:35] one - on - ones, what have we seen where

[50:37] we need to establish some guardrails and what could that

[50:40] amount be? And if the amount enters sort of insignificant

[50:43] in nature, maybe it's 10, 000 or less, but leads

[50:46] us on a path that has significant financial ramifications, then

[50:50] we need to actually think about more deeply that threshold

[50:53] and some other policies and guardrails that help us not

[50:55] to get into those types of situations, or at least

[50:58] if we're getting into them, we have clarity around what

[51:01] future, uh, budget commitments will be, because often it's not

[51:04] year one. It's the subsequent years that follow. James, you

[51:08] have follow up. Just a quick follow. I like that

[51:11] response. I think that's very well thought out. Um, instead

[51:14] of putting an arbitrary number, um, and I think that

[51:17] makes the case even more for why, if we are

[51:20] considering in your budget request, we need that analysis, right?

[51:24] To go exactly to what you're saying, Antoinette, in terms

[51:27] of, um, yes, this may look like a small expense

[51:30] now, but it will have a, it has a potential

[51:32] to have a snowball effect. Right. And so I think

[51:35] having that, that fulsome analysis will position council to make

[51:39] a much more informed decision. So thank you. And thank

[51:41] you again, guys, for pulling us together. Thank you, Councillor

[51:45] McClain. Any other questions from members of council? Council Nix.

[51:50] Yeah. I, I had two questions, but just, just before

[51:53] I ask them to respond to count something, Councillor McClain

[51:57] said, it's interesting what you were asking for in the

[52:00] budget presentation, but they've mandatory services versus the ones that

[52:04] what we call them optional, because that is in fact

[52:06] how the conservation authorities now present their budget. We present

[52:10] them as category one services and category two, well, we

[52:14] actually have a category three. But it's the category ones

[52:16] that are the, are the mandatory. So anyway, enough of

[52:19] that. That's just a comment. Sorry, John. Uh, my questions

[52:26] are based probably on my ignorance. There's one statement in

[52:29] here that I wasn't quite sure I understood. Each capital

[52:32] project must be fully financed through and it gives, it

[52:35] gives five things. Capital project must be how it must

[52:38] be finance. Uh, reserves long - term borrowing senior government

[52:42] grants subsidies or third party recoveries. Isn't it true, Amy,

[52:47] are that in some years for a capital project, we'd

[52:50] use current tax levies to pay for that also. Amy.

[52:54] Yeah to you warden post. The way we set up

[52:57] the capital budget is we actually, we're contributing to the

[53:00] capital asset fund. And then we're pulling from that capital

[53:04] asset funder reserve to pay for the project. Okay. So

[53:08] I, I, I get you. There still could be current

[53:10] tax levies that you're going into the final. Okay. Got

[53:13] it. The other question again, probably based on my ignorance,

[53:16] but just, just below that. So, so it says the

[53:22] reserves are going to be for capital projects only and

[53:25] not to adjust the operating budget, et cetera, et cetera.

[53:28] So what you're going to do over the next few

[53:30] years is get rid of the rate stabilization reserve. Now

[53:34] I understand what you've written or what's in the policy.

[53:37] I guess I'm just not a hundred percent sure. What

[53:41] would be wrong with keeping that rate stabilization, reserve, that

[53:45] can be used for sort of ad hoc things or

[53:49] rate stabilization. Why is it so is it mandatory or

[53:54] is this just something that why are we doing this?

[53:57] Amy. Warden post. We're not getting rid of the rate

[54:02] stabilization reserve. We currently have a contribution from the rate

[54:06] civilization reserve to the operating budget. And that contribution we

[54:10] want to eliminate over time. So that we adhere with

[54:13] the policy. It doesn't mean we get rid of the

[54:14] reserve. We still we will still have the reserve. With

[54:19] respect. You say palsy and thus will be phased out

[54:23] over time. Am I misreading this? Yeah. It's just that

[54:27] amount that we currently have in our operating budget that

[54:30] we're going to phase that out over time. We I

[54:32] think we have a million dollars in the budget. We

[54:34] want to reduce that contribution to the budget over time

[54:37] so that the money can be used for something else.

[54:42] Councillor next. Well, we still might have a rate stabilization

[54:46] reserve that next, next year. Okay. I had misunderstood, I

[54:50] guess then. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions, Councillor White.

[54:57] Thank you, Warden. I think part of, to address Fred's

[55:00] question, I think part of the problem with the rate

[55:03] stabilization fund is that we've historically used it for ad

[55:07] hoc projects, like you mentioned. But the problem is, is

[55:10] those added projects are causing the problem we have where

[55:14] we put it in this year. And then it snowballs

[55:17] like we're talking about. And five years down the road,

[55:20] uh, you know, it's now, uh, it's something we do

[55:22] regularly. And it's, it's, you know, essentially unfunded. So I

[55:26] think it's probably trying to roll some of that up

[55:29] and stop a little bit of that from happening is,

[55:31] is the intent. Hey. Was there any other questions or

[55:35] comments for members of council. Okay. Can I get a

[55:40] motion then for the recommendation in the report that it

[55:43] be received and approved. Councillor White. Seconded by Councillor Taylor.

[55:48] All in favor. And that's carried. Okay. So 10. 4

[55:54] is the governance review and it was Councillor Taylor who

[55:57] pulled this one. Thank you very much, Warden. Um, I

[56:01] bring this forward because I think there's a misunderstanding about

[56:05] what we're trying to do here. And quite honestly, it's

[56:08] very frustrating to me. So we are an election period.

[56:12] Um, and so we've got a lot of money morning

[56:14] quarterbacks who are questioning what the amount of money is

[56:18] set aside for. And the report states that it's up

[56:21] to 100, 000 dollars to do the report. And then

[56:25] the commentary is essentially what a, what a joke. Why

[56:27] would we do this work? Well, let me tell you

[56:30] from my perspective why we would do this work. Um,

[56:34] there, there is a need to understand the value of

[56:39] council, um, and the work that we do moving forward.

[56:43] And I think that things like understanding the size and

[56:46] efficiency of council is a really important thing that we

[56:50] do. And to have staff do that, we already have

[56:54] staff at a capacity constraint perspective. I don't know why

[56:59] we would ask them to do a side of desk

[57:01] project. It makes no sense to me where we would

[57:04] do that. It's also important to me. I think it

[57:07] should be determined who should be here. Um, so long

[57:10] term, I don't think it's necessarily, um, right that just

[57:14] the mayor and the deputy mayor are considered for these

[57:16] positions. It should be decided, um, who should be in

[57:21] these positions moving forward. And to that, I think the

[57:25] great benefit in discussing about whether or not these are,

[57:28] uh, elected positions or not. And it doesn't say, I'm

[57:32] not suggesting that I'm in favor of blowing up anything.

[57:34] I just merely think that this work needs to be

[57:36] done. And the money morning quarterbacks need to understand that

[57:40] to be able to do this work, you have to

[57:42] pay. And I can tell you that, uh, consultants aren't

[57:46] necessarily a bad thing. Consultants are there to, um, allow

[57:51] us to push forward initiatives that will eventually save money.

[57:55] Like it's, it's, it's just not something that we can

[57:57] put on to town staff. And quite candidly by suggesting

[58:01] otherwise it says that you don't understand what you're talking

[58:05] about. And so I am speaking to folks who are

[58:09] not paying attention in our communities. Um, and I think

[58:13] it's important that they listen. And I'm happy to talk

[58:16] about this as an issue as we go forward over

[58:19] the next couple of weeks. And Councillor Taylor, Councillor White.

[58:25] Sorry. Thanks. Thank you, Warden. Um, as some, like I'm

[58:30] one of the members that sit on that committee and

[58:32] I went into that meeting thinking that there was going

[58:34] to be some fundamental disagreement at that table, but there

[58:37] wasn't. Um, I'm more surprised that we came out with

[58:40] so many things that we wanted to talk about. And

[58:43] I think that's a good thing. Um, and, and Todd

[58:47] is right. Uh, I mean, there's been some commentary talking

[58:49] about, you know, what a waste of a hundred thousand

[58:52] dollars I don't, I don't see it that way. First

[58:54] of all, it's an up two number. We've also talked

[58:56] about things like engaging some, uh, university post - secondary

[59:00] students in maybe some of their study areas, uh, maybe

[59:04] to help facilitate that. So I don't think that the

[59:07] final total will be anywhere near a hundred thousand. Maybe

[59:10] it will, who knows. But at the end of the

[59:13] day, many of the things that are scheduled to be

[59:15] talked about as part of this review, I mean, they

[59:18] have the potential to generate their own savings. And that

[59:21] would be ongoing savings. And some of those savings, I

[59:23] would think would be well along the lines of, of

[59:28] probably more than 100, 000 dollars. But at the end

[59:32] of the day, when you're going to do this kind

[59:35] of a review, I mean, you have to talk about

[59:37] some of the things you don't want to necessarily maybe

[59:40] one - off talk about, but I mean, you don't

[59:43] do a partial review. We've done that in the past

[59:47] historically. And it's always come back to bite us in

[59:49] the backside. So, I mean, I think this is well

[59:53] structured. There might be some things in there that could

[59:55] come out of the scope. At a next meeting. And

[59:58] maybe it is a little bit broad or maybe some

[1:00:01] things could be condensed. But I mean, I think this

[1:00:03] is a good process. It hasn't been done in a

[1:00:05] long time here, uh, that I can say, but I

[1:00:08] do think we need to talk about what this looks

[1:00:09] like moving forward. Thanks. Councillor Garretts, then Councillor McClain and

[1:00:15] Councillor Krillman and Council Horner. So just, and it might

[1:00:19] not be a fair question for staff, but do we

[1:00:22] know when the last time was that we undertook any

[1:00:25] sort of governance review. Michelle. So through you, Warden, I've

[1:00:30] been at the county for 18 years and it has

[1:00:32] not been done. I believe the last time it may

[1:00:35] have been done was when the County of Duffyn Act

[1:00:37] came into effect, which was in the 90s. Yeah. So

[1:00:41] I, uh, I agree. It needs to be done. And

[1:00:45] if it's a, you know, it's a budget number to

[1:00:48] councillor white's point. Might not, it's just a number that

[1:00:54] is going in the budget. It could be last, but,

[1:00:56] but, uh, I'm, I'm happy to proceed with the work.

[1:01:01] If it's, you know, project that we do every 40

[1:01:04] years, I think it's necessary. Probably should be done far

[1:01:07] more frequently than that. It's a, it's a good governance

[1:01:10] review. And we need to make sure that we're operating,

[1:01:13] um, the best way we can. We could go through

[1:01:17] the work and determine that nothing needs to change. And

[1:01:21] if that's the case, then we at least know that

[1:01:24] the way we're operating is supported. So I'm happy with

[1:01:28] the, uh, to proceed with the word. Thanks. Thank you,

[1:01:31] Councillor Garrett's Councillor McClain. Uh, thank you. I think, um,

[1:01:37] there seemed to be a bit of a robust debate

[1:01:40] that kind of broke out over the past couple of

[1:01:42] days on social media. And so it seems like at

[1:01:45] least some members of the public are, are dialing into

[1:01:48] this, which I think is ultimately a good thing. Um,

[1:01:52] I think for me, I'm kind of torn on this.

[1:01:58] I would find this incredibly fascinating to go forward with

[1:02:01] the scope as it's kind of laid out. But I

[1:02:03] think the fundamental questions that we need to kind of

[1:02:05] wrestle with. Like what, what problems are we trying to

[1:02:08] address specifically? Um, that to me hasn't been kind of

[1:02:13] laid out. Like we've talked about maybe composition, um, or

[1:02:17] representation or engagement with the public and making sure they're

[1:02:21] aware of the business of council. But I think we

[1:02:24] really need to be crystal clear on, uh, what challenges

[1:02:29] do we see and that we actually want this review

[1:02:32] to address? Um, almost like what is the research question

[1:02:36] that we would be handing off to these graduate students,

[1:02:39] for example? Cause that would help them to kind of

[1:02:43] focus their attention a little bit more as opposed to

[1:02:45] giving them kind of broad strokes, blue sky to work

[1:02:48] on. And so I think that's something that we need

[1:02:51] to talk about. Like what are the problems as we

[1:02:53] see them? Um, and do we agree that those are

[1:02:56] the ones that need to be investigated. Um, that's my

[1:02:59] first point. The second point is around the scope. There's

[1:03:02] a, the number of different ways that we could do

[1:03:04] this. One potential way would be to start more gradual

[1:03:08] and say, okay, like if, if we agree as a

[1:03:11] council that one of the challenges is around, um, public

[1:03:16] awareness and engagement with county business, um, do we need

[1:03:21] to go and look at massive changes? Or they're incremental

[1:03:26] things that we could be doing right now. To help

[1:03:29] build that awareness. Things that all of us could be

[1:03:31] doing in terms of raising awareness about the items that

[1:03:34] we're talking about looking at, um, how to bring more

[1:03:38] people into Council meetings, whether that means holding council meetings

[1:03:43] in each of the eight municipalities once a year. That's

[1:03:46] something that we talked about. I think it was one

[1:03:47] of the very first conversations that we had around this

[1:03:49] council table at the beginning of this term in a

[1:03:52] never really went anywhere. Um, but if, if one of

[1:03:56] the challenges that we're trying to solve is public buy

[1:03:59] - in, that there's some low hanging fruit stuff that

[1:04:01] we could do to get at that. That wouldn't require

[1:04:04] a massive study. So again, I'm open to this. I

[1:04:08] just, I just wonder if we, if the scope, the

[1:04:12] massive scope that we've kind of laid out is what

[1:04:15] we want to start with first. And, and if it

[1:04:19] is, then I think we need to be crystal clear

[1:04:20] on what our research questions are. And so you know.

[1:04:28] Councillor McClean a few things. I've said it before defining

[1:04:32] the problem we're trying to solve before entering into a

[1:04:35] scope of work is very important. And that will drive

[1:04:38] more clarity. It will create better project requirements for consultants

[1:04:42] and or students. So that point is well taken. I

[1:04:45] think at this point we need more conversation to really

[1:04:49] facilitate and we need a facilitator to create a safe

[1:04:51] space to say, what are some of the underlying issues

[1:04:55] that we're experiencing and what problem do we want this

[1:04:57] to solve? And the truth is there may be a

[1:05:00] subset of problems and maybe we phase in how we

[1:05:03] address those and how we roll out some sort of

[1:05:06] implementation plan. But we've had some very important conversations around

[1:05:11] sentiments around the weighted vote. Representation around the table, the

[1:05:15] structure, all of those things are things that we really

[1:05:17] actually need to dig into a little bit more so

[1:05:20] that clarity will be provided to whoever engages with this

[1:05:24] work. So we agree with that. We just don't, that's

[1:05:27] not the role for staff to facilitate what may be

[1:05:30] very challenging, important and hard conversations to have. So that

[1:05:34] will be the initial stage of this work in our

[1:05:37] mind to start to narrow the scope and or agree

[1:05:41] on the scope and the problem we're trying to solve

[1:05:44] and then create that implementation plan forward in terms of

[1:05:47] engagement with the public. We've chatted about this. Part of

[1:05:50] this is not knowing how much we want to engage

[1:05:51] with the public. So is it engaging on the public

[1:05:54] on how they feel represented at the county on this

[1:05:58] structure? Is it about what we do and what we

[1:06:00] don't do? And you're right. That's layered. Part of that,

[1:06:03] they'll also bring in the communications role here at the

[1:06:06] county and improving the way we communicate with the public,

[1:06:09] how we engage. Some of our engagement events, um, seem

[1:06:13] to be focused, you know, very singularly on a topic.

[1:06:16] That's not always connected very clearly to the county. So

[1:06:19] those conversations are happening at the management level and beyond.

[1:06:23] How do we increase exposure and awareness for the great

[1:06:25] things that we deliver? When you're out talking with the

[1:06:28] public, I can think of a recent event at the

[1:06:31] Oaks resounding sort of, uh, impact high community impact for

[1:06:36] this services that are provided there to seniors, both our

[1:06:39] day program, uh, and a lot of our support services

[1:06:42] as well as long - term care and not always

[1:06:45] do people connect that back to county work. So we

[1:06:47] have a lot of work to do in that space.

[1:06:49] And that ties into the public engagement piece. I think

[1:06:52] the public engagement piece contemplated for this project though in

[1:06:56] part was how much do we want to engage with

[1:06:58] the public on composition on weighted vote and not having

[1:07:01] clarity around those pieces, uh, we left the scope more

[1:07:05] broad. Is that fair, Michelle? Yeah. Okay. And then the

[1:07:08] other piece I wanted to speak to the cost more

[1:07:10] generally because it's come up. So thank you for those

[1:07:12] who've said it really is an upset limit. Anything that

[1:07:15] we think we can handle internally, like some benchmarking we've

[1:07:18] already done some of that work internally reaching out to

[1:07:22] municipalities who have done something similar around the leaded vote.

[1:07:26] SimCO County and others. We've already hosted meetings with them

[1:07:28] to see what process did you go through, what lessons

[1:07:31] did you learn? What advice would you give us as

[1:07:33] we enter this space? And how much money did you

[1:07:35] spend doing this work so that we can make sure

[1:07:38] that there's value for the taxpayer dollar here? So all

[1:07:41] of those pieces where it's something we can do that

[1:07:44] our capacity can handle. And that is, I would say

[1:07:46] neutral establishing a benchmarking exercise. We will do that. Engaging

[1:07:51] and facilitating some really tough conversations around the table. That's

[1:07:55] not a good position to put any of our staff

[1:07:57] members in. And that's why we think that role is

[1:07:59] important. And then giving ourselves some breath of budget, if

[1:08:03] we do want to do deeper engagement, if we decide

[1:08:05] to explore really tough topics, we needed that wiggle room

[1:08:09] to see how deep at the end of the day

[1:08:11] council wants to go with this exercise. So I'll add

[1:08:13] that we can go through more questions. Thank you, Antonetta.

[1:08:16] Councillor Kraman. To start with, I don't think it will

[1:08:23] be anywhere near 100, 000 dollars to do the job

[1:08:27] for the reasons previously stated. And my observation is that

[1:08:30] AI generated memes are not helpful. Councillor Horner. I guess

[1:08:37] a couple of points. So first one is that I'm

[1:08:40] not sure that we're entering into this whole thing with

[1:08:44] the sole reason to save money. I think we want

[1:08:47] to understand how to work together more effectively and to

[1:08:51] get better decisions, um, out of this group. And so

[1:08:55] I applaud, um, your first meeting minutes were fascinating to

[1:09:00] me that you were able to get some of those

[1:09:03] things even out on the table. And so I fully

[1:09:08] support a facilitator. And maybe the consultant is the wrong

[1:09:13] word to use here because I'd like to see this

[1:09:15] whole process driven by the folks on that committee. With

[1:09:20] the help of a facilitator to get to the hard,

[1:09:23] hard questions and the needs. And so I'm fully supportive

[1:09:28] of what you've started. I think it will be a

[1:09:31] fascinating thing. I didn't put my hand up because governance

[1:09:35] is not my deal, but I, I really applaud the

[1:09:38] folks on this committee. And I think we're going to

[1:09:40] get some great results if they get supported in the

[1:09:43] proper way. Councillor Little. Yes. Thank you very much. And

[1:09:50] I appreciate the comments that have been made as a

[1:09:52] member of this committee. I just wanted to, um, thank

[1:09:56] everyone who participated. We had some really good discussion and

[1:09:59] we all have the opportunity to present our priorities. And

[1:10:02] as was mentioned, there was quite a few similarities in

[1:10:06] that. We also felt it was very important that we

[1:10:10] have the different pieces of information from different groups that,

[1:10:16] that do things and have different ways of doing things.

[1:10:20] And that we explore those and make sure that the

[1:10:22] way we want to move forward is appropriate. It isn't

[1:10:26] about saving money. It's about, um, making our decisions around

[1:10:30] this table effective and appropriate. And the best way to

[1:10:35] do that, the best way to, to, uh, be informed,

[1:10:40] etc. So I feel that it's a very, this was

[1:10:43] just an initial start on that, whether we engage a

[1:10:47] student, consultant or a facilitator or something is yet to

[1:10:52] be determined, but these are just, um, ideas that we're

[1:10:56] putting forward. And I think that we need to follow

[1:10:58] up on. We do need to do have some form

[1:11:01] of a bit of financial support that we can do

[1:11:04] the right job, um, and try and make sure that

[1:11:07] we get all the information that we need in order

[1:11:09] to make really sound decisions. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor

[1:11:13] Little. Councillor Garrett's then, Councillor White and Councillor Mills. Yeah,

[1:11:18] just, uh, I think councillor Kreelman touched on it with

[1:11:21] his, his meme comment, um, maybe the public also needs

[1:11:25] to be aware that, uh, as, as we sit here

[1:11:30] discussing this and prepared a vote on it, we have

[1:11:33] no correspondence from anybody through official channels and no, uh,

[1:11:36] no in a public comment period providing any input for

[1:11:39] us for decision making. So, uh, you know, meme chatter

[1:11:44] and posts on social media, like social media is a

[1:11:47] great tool to engage with your constituents. That's not an

[1:11:50] official way to voice your opinion on, on policy. So,

[1:11:54] you know, the public needs to be aware that if,

[1:11:57] if they feel strongly about this matter, the, the, uh,

[1:12:01] the best way to make that known is simply send

[1:12:04] an email, uh, to your local member. That was all.

[1:12:07] Thanks. Thanks Councillor Garretts. Councillor White. Thanks. Just, just to

[1:12:11] be clear, we do have one. And that's from Mr.

[1:12:14] McEwen. But what I, yeah, what I did want to

[1:12:18] say was, uh, we thanked everybody on the committee, but

[1:12:23] I did want to point out that, uh, I think

[1:12:26] most of us walked into that room, not really knowing

[1:12:28] what to expect from an introductory meeting on a, on

[1:12:32] a topic. But I do want to say staff, Rebecca

[1:12:35] and Michelle and whoever else was involved from this like

[1:12:39] they came prepared to challenge us with things and, uh,

[1:12:43] you know, they really put a lot of stuff on

[1:12:44] the table that maybe should have been considered. And I

[1:12:46] think, uh, what came out of that is a direct

[1:12:50] result of, of the work that staff did to sort

[1:12:52] of set that up. Cause I think a lot of

[1:12:54] us were like went in there going, what are we

[1:12:57] going to talk about? So thank you. Absolutely. Councillor Mills.

[1:13:03] Thanks for, just briefly. I'm definitely supportive of moving ahead

[1:13:08] with this work. Uh, and, and I certainly don't want

[1:13:11] to repeat what's been said earlier, but I do think

[1:13:13] that the task force deserves a tremendous amount of credit.

[1:13:18] In one meeting coming up with a scope of work

[1:13:19] that I think, in my mind, at least sort of

[1:13:22] nails all the, all the big issues that we should

[1:13:25] be looking at at this stage to the CAO's point,

[1:13:28] um, I'm comforted by, by what you said in terms

[1:13:30] of, you know, facilita or engaging a facilitator, because I

[1:13:34] think that is the next logical step. Um, you know,

[1:13:38] we have a pretty large bucket here of, of priority

[1:13:41] themes, uh, which I think is the right place to

[1:13:44] start, but we, we need to start narrowing that and

[1:13:47] identifying, you know, a couple of primary issues that we,

[1:13:51] we want to tackle. In my mind, you know, they,

[1:13:53] they tend to kind of fall into, to two broad

[1:13:56] categories. One is composite composition, you know, making sure that

[1:14:00] the right people are around the table. Um, how they

[1:14:02] get here, I guess is, is a crawlery of that.

[1:14:05] And then the second piece would, would be that public

[1:14:08] engagement piece. And I think if we can, you know,

[1:14:12] lean into those two problem questions. Um, and come up

[1:14:16] with answers to those. And then I'll think this work,

[1:14:19] uh, will have been certainly well worth the effort and

[1:14:23] whatever cost is associated with it. Um, I agree with

[1:14:26] others who have said that I don't think it's going

[1:14:28] to take a hundred grand. But, but let's set that

[1:14:31] as the, as the Edward limit and try to work

[1:14:33] down from there. Thank you, Councillor Mills. Any other questions

[1:14:37] or comments for members of Council on this item. Not

[1:14:40] seeing any. So if we can go with the recommendation

[1:14:43] in the report then that the, uh, governance review scope

[1:14:46] and framework dated September 24th be received that the minutes

[1:14:49] from the task force be received and that the attached

[1:14:51] governance review scope and framework be approved. Can I get

[1:14:54] a mover in a second or please? Councillor Taylor and

[1:14:56] Councillor Horner all in favor. And that is carried. Um,

[1:15:00] we do have two items of correspondence. There was correspondence

[1:15:03] from Josh McEwen that was circulated in the addendum on

[1:15:06] Tuesday. Would any member of Council like to discuss either

[1:15:09] piece of correspondence. Not seeing any. Can I get a

[1:15:12] motion to approve both or receive both. Councillor McClain and

[1:15:16] Councillor Guardhosts all in favor. And that's carried. Those are

[1:15:19] received. Was there any notices emotion today. Councillor Little. Yes,

[1:15:26] thank you. So we've had some discussion earlier about budgeting,

[1:15:29] et cetera. Um, and at a prior council meeting, we

[1:15:33] had a discussion about economic development. So I would like

[1:15:36] to, uh, propose that, um, prior to the presentation of

[1:15:40] the 2027 budget, our economic staff be directed to meet

[1:15:44] with, um, task force members of Council and community to

[1:15:50] develop a scope of work and activities for the economic

[1:15:54] development at the county. And that this proposal work plan

[1:15:58] be presented as part of the 2027 budget process. So

[1:16:02] that's sort of would be my notice of motion. I

[1:16:05] can, um, make it to written to submit. And alternate

[1:16:11] tantina. Thank you through you, Warden Post to Councillor Little.

[1:16:16] Thank you for that. Raj and the team are actively

[1:16:18] working on a workback plan in terms of we committed

[1:16:21] to providing council a date and a plan in terms

[1:16:25] of how we would get to a potential future state

[1:16:28] of economic development. That work back plan does include the

[1:16:32] formulation of an advisory committee that would be formed of

[1:16:35] council members. Experts in the space and also other county

[1:16:39] members, uh, who have gone through a similar exercise, who

[1:16:42] have local tiers who provide economic development services at different

[1:16:46] ways and to different degrees. And so the goal was

[1:16:48] to bring those voices together through a task force and

[1:16:52] develop a plan forward. There's no specific budget implications with

[1:16:56] that. So the task force piece is noted, uh, I'm

[1:16:59] not sure that that needs to be included in the

[1:17:01] budget, but rather it's the work that staff is deploying

[1:17:04] as part of that larger work plan to get us

[1:17:07] to a recommendation on what economic development could look like

[1:17:11] here at the County level. Does that help provide some

[1:17:14] clarity? Cancer little. I think my concern is that we

[1:17:22] want to ensure that economic development funds are included in

[1:17:27] the 2027 budget. And so I'm worried that if that

[1:17:33] work does not get done. Soon that there will not

[1:17:38] be opportunity to include funds for economic development in 2027.

[1:17:42] And I think that there needs to be, and I,

[1:17:45] I've heard concerns around this table about, um, that economic

[1:17:50] development is important, but we just need to understand what

[1:17:52] our focus is going to be as a county, um,

[1:17:56] or a county department delivering that service. So I don't

[1:18:00] want to, uh, this is just my pointing forward to

[1:18:03] notice this motion. So I don't want to, uh, debate

[1:18:06] the whole issue at this point. But, uh, that's, that's

[1:18:10] what I'd still like to do. Thank you. And Shanna.

[1:18:13] Anything. I can just add the manager of economic development

[1:18:16] position was preserved through the MPR. So the funds for

[1:18:20] that are currently preserved. And we have someone on MAT

[1:18:23] leave who's coming back. So there's still two positions affiliated

[1:18:26] right now with economic development. So from a position perspective,

[1:18:30] I'm not sure that anything's needed in the budget. If

[1:18:33] you had some sort of sense of funds for particular

[1:18:37] goal, again, without establishing what those goals or what that

[1:18:39] economic activity would be hard to place a dollar amount

[1:18:43] in there, but I'm happy to have the discussion. And

[1:18:46] if it could be in time for the budget and

[1:18:49] those outcomes can come out. That's fine. I just want

[1:18:51] to remind us that there still are two full -

[1:18:53] time positions as well as a part of the Director

[1:18:56] of Planning and Economic Development's role that is related to

[1:19:00] the function of economic development currently. Those have been preserved.

[1:19:04] Right. Very good. Just Councillor Garrett's. Yep. Point of order.

[1:19:10] I think Councillor Little touched on it. I this is

[1:19:13] a notice of motion. I don't know that it's, it's

[1:19:17] appropriate to be debating at this point, uh, Councillor Little

[1:19:20] could have discussions with the CAO offline on the final

[1:19:23] structure if she wishes, but I believe that she's free

[1:19:27] to put forward a notice of motion. Yep. Just making

[1:19:30] sure. Yeah. No, absolutely. Councillor Kraman. I don't know if

[1:19:35] this is the appropriate moment, but I have an inquiry

[1:19:37] to make. Uh, we can do if the notices of

[1:19:42] motion, we can do that as part of other business,

[1:19:44] which we will be in now. So go ahead. I'm

[1:19:47] just wondering whether or not the highway 10 MTO safety

[1:19:51] study has emerged. Why'd you take my thunder away, Councillor

[1:19:55] Krillman? That was my exciting, um, addition to other business

[1:19:58] was actually, I am very pleased to announce that the

[1:20:01] province has provided the Highway 10 operational performance report. It

[1:20:04] is now available on Council SharePoint. I do want to

[1:20:08] thank Minister Sarkaria, who I have been communicating with back

[1:20:11] and forth over the last couple of weeks for making

[1:20:13] sure that that comes to council as soon as possible.

[1:20:16] Um, so I'm very pleased that it is up now.

[1:20:18] So every member of Council can access that from the

[1:20:20] SharePoint. Thank you for your efforts on that. And I

[1:20:23] presume it is a public document. Madam Clerk. So through

[1:20:29] you, Warden, I have not got confirmation from the ministry

[1:20:33] that it is public. I'm waiting. We did reach out

[1:20:37] and ask. Could that information be sought? Because I will

[1:20:40] be very tempted to leak it. Thank you, Councillor Kralman.

[1:20:46] I think Michelle is actively working on that to just

[1:20:48] make a confirmation that that is public. I will also

[1:20:51] send a note to minister Sarkaria and see if I

[1:20:53] can get an answer back, um, as well. So, um,

[1:20:56] I will let Council know if I hear anything back

[1:20:58] from the minister. Was there any other, uh, new business

[1:21:00] for many members of council? Councillor Taylor. Just a quick

[1:21:04] clarification to our CIO. Is what is the meeting schedule

[1:21:09] moving forward? And if we do have, and I apologise

[1:21:12] that I maybe have lost, but if we do have

[1:21:14] other meanings, would we just abandon them and wait until

[1:21:17] the new term. Where are we at? It's not. Thank

[1:21:21] you through your word in post. There was one additional

[1:21:23] meeting that was planned for this year, but the clerk

[1:21:25] and I have discussed the cancellation of that wonderful. Yeah.

[1:21:28] That's great. Thank you. There's no other reports coming. I

[1:21:32] see Councillor Little's face. There's no reports coming from staff.

[1:21:35] So the need to have another meeting on October 8th.

[1:21:37] So the next meeting of, of Council will be December

[1:21:39] 10th. What's that councillor white? So we don't have a

[1:21:42] meeting. Can we take a notice of motion? If council

[1:21:45] is not going to be existing, I checked that with

[1:21:47] Michelle and it'll come to the December 10th meeting. Yeah.

[1:21:51] Just check. Okay. Any other items of other business. Members

[1:21:58] of Council? No. Okay. Can I have a motion then

[1:22:01] for the confirming bylaw to be read a first second

[1:22:03] and third time. Councillor Nix and Councillor White all in

[1:22:07] favor. And that's carried. The next meeting, um, as I

[1:22:13] said, will be December 10th with the new term of

[1:22:16] Council. At this time, I would like to extend my

[1:22:19] sincere thanks to both Councillors Hall and Councillors Hawkins for

[1:22:22] their time on council. And they are not seeking re

[1:22:24] - elections. This will be their final meeting. Um, I'd

[1:22:27] also like to extend congratulations to councillors guard house. Garrett's

[1:22:31] Horner, Little and McClain on their acclimations. And for the

[1:22:34] rest of Council, I wish you all the best in

[1:22:36] your upcoming election campaigns. With that, can I have a

[1:22:40] motion to adjourn, please? Councillor Garthouse. And we'll let maybe

[1:22:44] councillor Garrett's. There we go. All in favor. And that

[1:22:46] is carried. Thank you everybody. Have a great day. Adios.

[1:22:51] You too.

Council Meeting

Agenda

Transcript