[0:00] >> mayor: I want to call to order the city council workshop for december the 4th. Would everybody please stand for

[0:09] the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it

[0:19] stands, one nation under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> mayor: would somebody like to

[0:32] lead us in a prayer or just have a moment of silence? [moment of silence] >> mayor: thank you.

[1:02] okay. Mandy do you want to call roll. [roll called] the agenda for this meeting was

[1:49] posted on the city's website on monday november 27th. 2023. The agenda was amended on

[1:57] november 28th to add back-up to item 6b and on november 29th add 4d, 6c and back-up to 7a. >> mayor: there's an exit behind

[2:14] you. The way we came in and also to your right if there's an emergency, those are the two

[2:21] exits you try to take out. The next thing we will have public comments. Please limit them to three

[2:30] minutes and address them to the chair. Anybody sign up, mandy. >> david porter.

[2:37] >> good afternoon. Dave porter. I think that one of the most paramount issues of the council

[2:53] or staff of dunnellon is [inaudible]. >> and all of the businesses that require their own

[3:23] comprehensive plan. >> mayor: right. >> I would request that some time during this meeting that

[3:30] maybe [technical difficulties] three problems with doing a resurface at the police department.

[23:47] the first the weight of the fire trucks. 250s, 350s, 450s, 550s. Second problem is at the back of

[24:04] the building it's already below grade. So you're going to add an inch and quarter and inch 23456 of

[24:14] black top on top of it all of the water is going to go in the back door of the police department.

[24:21] and they only cover it for three years. And to do where the water can drain out to the front of the

[24:35] building and they can make it lower than the back door where the water won't go in the back door of the police department.

[24:45] the third thing that the handicapped that the pd has now. It has a 2 percent slope per handicapped ada compliance.

[24:57] it has to be completely flat. And to the handicapped parking spot be level and you won't have to do anything to that parking

[25:16] lot for 20 years. >> if I might add if you only resurface that changes where you can take the funds from.

[25:25] you -- it would either -- which I didn't highlight line 31 is your 6 cent gas tax reserve which is repair and maintenance

[25:36] of or it would come from general fund unrestricted on line 37. >> mayor: okay. Is there any any engineering if

[25:54] we do the same thing. >> no because they know what the drainage when they looked at it they already know where the

[26:03] water has to flow. Right now everything is flowing to the fire department. That's why we're having a lot of

[26:12] parking lot problems when it should be going from the back of the police department into the storm drain.

[26:30] do we have any existing water or sewer lines under there that would be of concern? >> not that we're aware of.

[26:39] everything is on williams street and pennsylvania. The water manager and all of the utility -- you've got overhead

[26:47] utilities from williams street back to the pd but the water meter is right at the front door.

[26:55] but we're in dunnellon. >> well, I remember when it was an alleyway when I was a kid, and when it was whenever we four

[27:07] laned 41. I just wondered if there was anything in there with our fau friends.

[27:19] >> I can double check. >> if we did have something in there it would be nice to take care of.

[27:27] we did park avenue and wall net. And modernize the street from one end to the other. >> okay.

[27:43] that's just a question. As far as I'm concerned I like the idea of doing it like it should be done and look to the

[27:53] future. A 20-year existence of it, and the disabled parking I was not aware that was deficient.

[28:02] also drainage if you don't drain asphalt pavement and you leave standing water you set up a problem.

[28:12] >> every time it rains it goes to the back of the police department, and right at the fire truck.

[28:25] the police department is higher than williams street. >> okay. I'm pleased with your analysis

[28:30] and like I said the might have a concern about if there is possible there is something we could check on.

[28:41] >> I can call until to locate -- >> some of the council members. >> mayor: I think that's what I'm worried about that exactly

[28:52] stuff like that. Finding out what we don't do after we start spending money on the project.

[29:00] I'm all for it. Don't get me wrong. I want to make sure we have our ducks in a row here.

[29:07] >> okay. >> mayor: you have any questions. >> no.

[29:14] >> mayor: I think we're all for it. To me if I'm going to spend $25,000 and it's going to last

[29:23] five years, and $35,000 and it's going to last 20 to 30. >> the thing if I'd personally >> whatever your downside.

[30:07] >> we'll be bringing back a contract once something is in place. Chad there are lines underneath.

[30:14] water or sewer. >> we'll call and locate. Just to verify but. >> mayor: good deal.

[30:25] >> I guess I'm a little confused. I agree with what's gone on. What's the next step.

[30:33] we're going to get a contract value. >> I can do that tomorrow and they should have it within a

[30:40] week. >> I'm not looking to rush. What would be our next step up here.

[30:46] >> come back with the contracts. >> okay. Got you. And I guess mandy would that go

[30:51] on the consent agenda or even need to be on the consent agenda. >> I would say that the contract

[31:04] would need to be reviewed by the attorney before it comes to workshop. >> mayor: so you're going to do

[31:11] all of the legwork on this, matt and we'll let andrew look at it. >> that sounds reasonable. >> mayor: if we can fix this

[31:24] drainage problem we need to fix it. >> it's way past. >> council, I'll try to do a

[31:30] budget amendment at the same time that the contract is presented to you. That way you approve the

[31:37] contract. The budget is approved to use that reserve you would like me to use, and then it's a done

[31:45] deal. >> cool. >> mayor: okay. All right.

[31:53] next item is the florida department emergency management recovery obligation calculation program.

[32:01] I'm not sure who put that on there. Who put that on there? >> that was ron.

[32:13] yeah. There you go. Now I remember. >> a few meetings after we you

[32:22] guys all had signed off on the statewide mutual aid contract for emergency management of. Then we came back and started to

[32:34] work on a comprehensive operation plan for emergency management. Of a plan what this is what

[32:44] we'll do in the case of emergencies. A lot of this has to do with the way that the fema reimburses.

[32:53] you hire contractors et cetera et cetera. At times natural disasters. Over the decades with the

[33:02] emergency management they've had problems with the way they reimbursed. So where we're at for the city

[33:16] of dunnellon is we have to do a self-assessment. That self-assessment is about 132 questions ranging from the

[33:27] alignment authority, to council to staff to our purchasing policies, how they're compliant with both federal, state and

[33:35] local compliance and it's an evaluation if you will. Staff is currently working on that as they team to get that

[33:43] answer because it has to be submitted by december 31st. Once that's submitted it will be reviewed by the florida

[33:52] department of emergency management. Then they will come back and say hey we have questions we want

[34:00] additional questions. Or we may ask you to change something or ask for further clarification.

[34:07] that's what they call the abatement period. Right now where we're at is in the assessment.

[34:13] we're finishing up that point and as of right now this is just to share you where we're at in that process when we come back

[34:22] during the abatement process, we may be coming back to council asking for some changes in policies, and we have from jan 1

[34:32] to march 31st to do that. Why is that important to the city of dunnellon? This process obviously -- what

[34:43] the state of florida is looking for listen if you're compliant with all of the purchasing policies and we're going to give

[34:52] you a numeric rating and that means when you say that you're submitted a bill to fema then they're going to pay it in a

[35:02] much more timely fashion. In decades past sometimes fema reimbursed might take three, four, five years to recover that

[35:12] money. We're talking about three, four, five weeks now. Their goal is to get it paid

[35:21] within 30 days. That would be a huge benefit for the city. So that's where we're at.

[35:34] any questions you might have. >> mayor: have you got all of the help you need to document all of this stuff?

[35:43] >> yes. Jan and shelby have been helping me get this together. It's going really smooth.

[35:55] now, when we get to the abatement process that may be different. It's going to break down where

[36:02] we have to talk to some of the contractors and public works, and it may involve city council for different lines of

[36:09] authority, et cetera. It may be we have some unofficial processes we have to document and maybe formalize.

[36:25] >> mayor: okay. >> it's moving along very well. >> mayor: good. You all good.

[36:33] >> I would add that you that's an excellent effort. The better we're aligned with our state requirements

[36:43] especially during emergency situations because the funding as you said could stretch out for a great deal of time.

[36:58] we would be depleting reserves in order to cover a major disaster. So I commend the effort many.

[37:06] I think it's excellent idea. >> thank you. >> mayor: absolutely. All right.

[37:11] you you good. >> yes. >> all right. Thank you, ron.

[37:18] okay. Next item is police chief six-month evaluation. I know I did one.

[37:28] did everybody else did one. >> yes, sir. I have that in the back-up folder.

[37:35] I got that compiled this amp. I received evaluations from mayor dunnellon dunnellon, vice mayor inskeep, and wheeler.

[37:50] and I've listed the compiled rating. If you all want to take a chance to review that we will publish

[38:05] it with the city council meeting on monday, I'm sorry I can't get away. Out of a possible 50 points he

[38:18] scored 47.92. This is a six-month evaluation so it's not linked to any type of merit increase.

[38:30] but that would be linked to an annual evaluation. Per our policy he was due a six-month to assess his

[38:41] performance which appears to be great. >> mayor: that's good. >> so you can sounds we're all

[38:49] about on the same page too. >> all of the comments are similar. If you don't have any changes,

[38:57] we can put that on the consent agenda for approval next week. >> mandy it might be because I got it in 38 but I don't see my

[39:10] goals on there >> mayor: no you don't. I saw where you had some comments above.

[39:22] here it is. >> got you. Cool. Thank you.

[39:28] >> mayor: all right. Good deal. So you all good with putting that on the consent agenda.

[39:38] that's good, mandy. All right. The next item is council agenda items we've added.

[39:55] the next one was blue run park. We had all had some questions that we were looking at. And we wanted to submit to

[40:12] marion county to get their input on those questions. Somehow I've just lost mine. And I believe this is a

[40:30] summation of what we all put together. Right mandy. >> yes, sir.

[40:35] >> mayor: things like how many people are put into the kp hole. How many tubes, how many kayaks, how many canoes, who pays the

[40:52] can the p hole on a monthly basis. Lists all of the vendors that are using the equipment.

[41:01] and properly identified with the marion county during. What is the total revenue of kp hole.

[41:11] and if not why not. Why does marion county invest. What does marion county invest in blue run park on an annual

[41:26] basis. How does it compare with the city and any commercial vendors using the kp hole.

[41:36] would the county and handle percent of the expenses of blue run park. This is just a list of questions

[41:47] we on the council decided to ask. I don't think any of us know how many tubes go into the river

[41:54] every summer and what their total revenue is. And how it's spent. I say we need to get to this

[42:17] couillard, and then discuss with them on these matters. >> I reviewed that list, and one item that might be important to

[42:27] add is the security situation for the blue run park. The city of course we're at the end.

[42:39] we're not at the beginning. So we had the people once they come out of the rivera and some of them are not quite the same

[42:47] person when they went in the river. >> mayor: that's a good way to put that

[42:53] >> and their attitudes are a little bit different. And we have to be concerned about the security for our

[43:02] community. You mentioned that a lot of the information that's mentioned on the request is public

[43:18] information. Public information. There is a way that we could work this so that its staff to

[43:27] staff making the request. As far as the figures on the entrance of the park, who is entering the park, how many, the

[43:39] variety as we said the kayakers with the tubers. This information is available and it's public record.

[43:46] it can be requested as a public record and that way everything -- in my opinion the best way to approach something

[43:54] like this everything we can achieve through a public record request from staff to staff is the way I would recommend we

[44:04] approach that. And any items that would come before a judgment situation between the city council and the

[44:13] county commissioners would be another step. In other words, as the mayor state we're trying to get

[44:21] answers to these concerns. But I'd like to see to work through the staff and achieve the answers through a public

[44:30] access of this information. So therefore when it actually works up through our staff levels and eventually hopefully

[44:39] it will come into administration, and then go into a county commissioner city council situation, we both have

[44:46] material to work with and we're not bringing it to the county commissioners before we have our groundwork laid.

[44:59] that's something I would suggest we move forward. >> mayor: that sounds good. We can turn these questions into

[45:07] a public information request. That's all we're going to do. >> that's the way I can submit. >> mayor: that's a good thing.

[45:20] that way we know where that information exactly came from. We know all right -- I do know because I went up before I got

[45:34] on the council and met with the kp hole lady that runs that. She actually provided it was two or three years ago a summary the

[45:47] total tubes, and total kayaks. And so it's available. Public record would be the easiest way for that.

[45:58] >> well it would be an item that would be best addressed through our police chief and through our county sheriff.

[46:07] and I don't know whether we probably -- may want to get the freshwater marine patrol. That would be something that the

[46:16] chief would noelle how to approach. Security is the key to everything we do in our

[46:27] community and that is an issue we certainly want to provide for. I just thought but I would

[46:34] recommend that mandy as you automatically let it go through the chief to assess the situation.

[46:43] where it is now and where he thinks it will be in five years, and 10 years. That's just a suggestion.

[46:52] I'm not trying to do the chief's job. >> mayor: that's a good point, walter.

[47:00] it's also outlined in the blue run plan. It talks about the county is going to provide two people at

[47:14] least every day during the busy season. >> last year or the year I first moved up here I understand they

[47:45] instituted some new fee structure from kp hole. >> mayor: they did because of covid.

[47:55] >> could we also find what their revenue once they started doing that. If they had an increase.

[48:04] >> mayor: that was 2021. >> is the county making more money off of that. Are the roads deteriorating

[48:21] because of the higher volumes of traffic. >> kp hole is not in the city. >> mayor: kp hole is in marion

[48:33] county. It does impact our roads here in dunnellon 484. No luckily what they destroy is

[48:47] marion county. When I went up there it was before covid. We reduced the tubes during

[48:56] covid. Don't know if they've increased the number of tubes or change the rate they charge.

[49:05] what we may want to do is ask for three years worth of information. That would take care of 2023,

[49:15] '22 and '21. >> well, if council lehman wants to know what the revenue prior to the pandemic we'd need to ask

[49:27] for 2019. >> just for information. >> significantly in 2020 and picked back up in 2021.

[49:37] >> mayor: I think it went significantly way down. >> so you want '19 through '22 -- '19 through '23.

[49:53] >> mayor: yeah. By the time they get it to us it will be 2024. >> they're all going to be over

[50:02] there. If we can have a stable base maybe not this year but hey next year traffic is up.

[50:13] >> mayor: all right. Got all of that mandy. >> got it. >> mayor: the next thing was the

[50:20] east pennsylvania multi-modal project. I know tim you were working with everybody to figure this out.

[50:41] and the tpo rob bombs to go speak with tracy straub. And she is at one point in her career he was the county

[50:56] engineer, and now she's the boss over the county engineer. She's the assistant clerk. And she is extremely

[51:09] intelligent. I mean everything good you could possibly deal with a person she was it.

[51:19] mandy and I had a phone meeting with her last thursday. Day before I sent her seven of the major topics major issues of

[51:29] we're seeing with this project. I won't read them all. Fgua concern about the eight-inch main on the south

[51:43] side of the street. And fgu56789 has repeatedly high risk of that water main breaking once it's under heavy traffic.

[52:02] that's the first one. The second one is a safety issue. With the way fgua and our city

[52:10] staff that will have to maintain the right-of-ways. There's no refuge zone for them. They're going to be somewhat in

[52:21] the way of traffic just to maintain them the way they're on there. The third one there's no

[52:29] reasonable space for them to pull off the road. Probably a more important it's a very narrow residential area.

[53:40] and then the last one I put down I believe it's going to create more congestion in an already congested area.

[53:50] I sent those to tracy so she could review them before our talking. She's a bit frustrated with us.

[54:02] we want the project. We want the project goes on hold for two years. It wasn't because dunnellon

[54:12] wanted to put it on hold. Now there's been a resolution we're putting up concrete barriers for bikers.

[54:29] and then after that dunnellon we want it, we want it. They put it on the list. And but there's $300,000 some

[54:47] dollars invested into the engineering of this project. Naturally when we have hey we have these issues.

[55:02] so that's how we started the conversation. Explained to her apologized but we're at the point where we see

[55:11] what the issues are. And they're important enough that I understand the frustrating.

[55:18] but the issues are important enough at least in my mind it doesn't make sense to go ahead with the project.

[55:32] is all of the issues that just mentioned. So with that she said if there is a redesign if we have to

[55:44] redesign then the city would have to pay for the redesign. Now she mentioned. When we're not looking to

[55:54] redesign the whole thing. Actually with construction -- let me back up a little bit. If we do a redesign.

[56:05] the city is going to have to come up with the money for the redesign. We need to communicate our cun

[56:13] essential opportunities to fdot and tpo and naturally to her. We should also speak to our representative kathy bryant

[56:38] first would be council consent. Speak with kathy bryant on that. Then based on that communicate in writing to fdot, tpo and

[56:51] tracy. The way I understand the options we're looking at four options. Option 1 is proceed as planned.

[57:03] option 2 scrap the entire project. Option 3 would be do the barrier portion on the rainbow river

[57:13] bridge. Put the pedestrian and bike traffic. Continue doing the take off-ramp

[57:19] into blue run park and re-stripe the south parking spots into a bike lane. The issue with that tracy had

[57:30] with that, just re-striping this -- this whole thing is based on being a multi-modal trail.

[57:38] she's not just by re-striping the parking spots into a bike lane that will meet the description of multi-modal.

[57:47] basically we're just creating a bike path but not multi-modal path. With that option if we re-stripe

[57:58] the lanes that would be the bicycle lanes, and walking pedestrians will have that sidewalk.

[58:06] so with that that's when I said that the design for all of that for the re-striping is already complete.

[58:14] so redesign would be a lot of significant dollars. >> did she give you an idea how much?

[58:24] >> no. She's not a contractor. >> no. Kimley horne is the one that

[58:34] designs this project. The only redesign is re-striping rather than doing all of the islands and the extend deck.

[58:46] the fourth option if the multi-modal project. So we can't go to the state and make this happen because they

[59:03] have all the criteria all of the licensing to work with the state. This may not meet the grant

[59:12] criteria by just re-striping and creating a bike lane. Option 4 would be the same as option 3 but instead of

[59:23] re-striping the bike lane it would be on don't do the islands. Don't do anything to the north

[59:33] side. Take the south side parking spots, raise that area. Wring that construction over to

[59:42] the existing sidewalk and turn all of that into a multi-modal path. So those are the four options

[59:51] I'm seeing. Any redesign that needs to be done, there should be significant funds left over with

[1:00:00] the amount of construction by putting in the islands, all of the other repaving and all of that.

[1:00:09] that's where we're at. >> mayor: I forget 2 is. >> scrap the whole project. As planned scrap the whole

[1:00:22] project and then a modification of the project as planned that that would not include any islands.

[1:00:32] >> mayor: it still baffles me how we can get this far and not realize all of the problems with the water, sewer.

[1:00:44] >> what they're saying -- >> they're not offering anything. >> it's just going working

[1:00:55] totally on the parking spaces and the stop. >> plus putting the barriers on the bridge and takeoff down

[1:01:05] to -- >> I was talking to people and that the only council was for the minimal project and then a

[1:01:14] couple of councils they came back and said we wanted to do the biggest grandest project we can.

[1:01:23] >> I'm not sure. >> mayor: all right. >> so if you want to digest we probably get rid of this.

[1:01:44] >> then you turn right around and you start -- I think my biggest problem is taking up parking on there.

[1:01:59] to me we don't have parking in this town. I hate to say it and I ride a bike and I ride a bike on blue

[1:02:15] run trail. Why once you cross that bridge why do you want to go to the railroad track.

[1:02:24] >> yes. >> mayor: then go to chamber of commerce. And nothing against julie.

[1:02:38] now can definitely make that option 5. And I will. But just puts us at-risk of when

[1:02:47] I say option 5 let me make sure I understand. Option 5 would be do -- put the barriers up on the bridge.

[1:02:58] put the takeoff on blue run park. >> mayor: that hill is where the pedestrians are going from

[1:03:08] swampy's. >> the issue may be like tracy none of that may happen because of the multi-modal definition

[1:03:18] grant. But I'll put that out there. >> mayor: okay. >> I'll get this typed up.

[1:03:28] I'll get it to mandy so she can get it to everybody. They're at 90%. And they're looking to put this

[1:03:36] out to bid. And >> mayor: okay. Thank you.

[1:03:42] >> yes, sir. >> mayor: for running this down. >> mr. Mayor, tim, when you spoke to them did they offer

[1:03:51] anything besides they were completed 90% on engineering. Did she have a ballpark they would be moving on their end if

[1:04:01] we had not presented an objection? In other words, what timeline were we facing with the project

[1:04:10] before we got to this point with our council action? >> no they put out a schedule. Fdot was supposed to be august

[1:04:44] 23rd. Take august 23rd and fast forward to now that's how many months the planning is behind.

[1:04:53] final plan submit -- final submitting to fdot was 9/23 and the bid specifications were supposed to go on 9/13.

[1:05:05] that's what's running behind right now. >> so the whole process is where we are right now about four or

[1:05:14] five months behind. >> yes, sir. >> so we're well within the span of creating this concern as far

[1:05:21] as the project. >> I mean, is the project is delayed now this will simply add to the delay if that makes

[1:05:32] sense. I'm not saying that's not acceptable for the county and state.

[1:05:37] I don't know. >> okay. >> mayor: okay. If you could have that typed up

[1:05:43] and sent out to us, and we can study it. Thank you tim forgetting that to us.

[1:05:54] that's all I had. Mr. Inskeep you're up. >> I thought I just was. Mandy do you have the

[1:06:05] spreadsheet for the christmas parade expense. All right. This is along the lines of the

[1:06:28] two river music festivals. I was going to present this at the last council meeting. As we all know the christmas

[1:06:39] parade has happened. And this is the deal we worked out with the chamber of commerce.

[1:06:51] what the city's expenses are we supplied the public works barricades. The public works personnel.

[1:07:01] set up the barricades, picked up the barricades, and matt did we have to buy road closure signs so we didn't incur that expense.

[1:07:14] I tried to capture all of the city costs. So you're looking at the city will have invested $505.

[1:07:25] but only $160 of that is budget money. The rest of it is in kind type of contribution.

[1:07:34] actually with the update with matt we don't have the $160 now. The chamber expenses were going to be 845 with police department

[1:07:47] and permit they paid. Then we worked out a partnering with the investment at 505. The investment difference 340.

[1:08:01] split that in half. That's $140. Did the math and made it each would have $675 invested in it.

[1:08:12] and so out of that $675, $363 minus $160 now would take a budget hit. >> mayor: 202.

[1:08:31] >> the rest of was $312 to help out with the parade. So the to have this having this parade.

[1:08:41] I'm not saying good, bad or indifferent. 675, 675. That's what it cost to have a

[1:08:51] parade. >> so the police officers are paid for by the chamber. >> right.

[1:08:59] >> that's out of the permit fees and things like that. >> correct. So apologize it's already the

[1:09:10] fact. I totally blew it when I didn't bring it last meeting. If anybody has an issue with

[1:09:17] that. Seemed like -- what my reasoning and I hate running around like a loose cannon.

[1:09:26] this event is different than other commercial. This is truly the people of dunnellon that come to see this

[1:09:34] parade and all of that. For $300 that could come out of council contingency to make up for santa in the park.

[1:09:53] >> mr. Mayor. >> mayor: yes. >> I think it's commendable. I think it's commendable.

[1:10:03] I can't think of a better time for our youth and families watching a parade in their own hometown.

[1:10:10] I commend the effort to cooperate with the chamber of commerce and all of the kids and including our one and only high

[1:10:22] school band and I saw many children that felt the same way. The budget item would be a blessing to approve if I had in

[1:10:37] my pocket. Thank you. >> mayor: I agree. I think it was well attended and

[1:10:41] there was an awful lot of people there which was great. >> okay. Personnel manual tuition policy.

[1:11:09] where the personnel manual tuition paul is a and we experienced a little over a year ago.

[1:11:17] my recommendation is that we need to change the verbiage because it wasn't clear in the personnel manual if an employee

[1:11:27] goes for further education, and it gets paid for that upon receipt of their diploma or certificate, that they have to

[1:11:37] commit to working with the city for two years. And the other thing I'd like to do is go back to the original

[1:11:47] policy that got changed about a year ago, and not -- and a remove paying for mileage that we did there.

[1:11:58] >> mayor: I totally agree. We had a policy very similar to where I've always worked. We'd pay for something that was

[1:12:10] going to benefit you and us. But you had to commit to stay a certain amount of time. Because you were going to take

[1:12:19] that to your new employer. And I totally agree with the mileage. That's just part of going.

[1:12:29] I don't have a problem with that. >> consensus. We have can that go to a consent

[1:12:38] agenda >> so we have to bring a resolution. Have to go on the regular

[1:12:43] agenda. >> mayor: all right. Good deal. >> review project checklist.

[1:12:52] mandy finally got it done. >> mayor: I think I got the original copy. >> she got the big stick out.

[1:13:09] what's driving this is prior to sitting up I watched many meetings go on and I'm not picking on any one project.

[1:13:21] changing all the lights. Dunnellon taking over the property lights in downtown, and changing all those out for solar

[1:13:34] lights, and dunnellon would be responsible for maintenance, for anything not only the initial project but the cost going

[1:13:43] forward. Pretty much what was presented at the time out of a brochure that gave showed a price of the

[1:13:51] lights and showed a picture of the lights and a lot of speculation what it was going to cost.

[1:13:57] and and pretty much the only amount was the cost of the lights. Because the assumption that

[1:14:08] public works would do the insulation and all of that. When troy when the public works manager found out that in this

[1:14:19] meeting that he was going to be responsible for putting in the lights, he was quite surprised, and then he was like okay wait a

[1:14:28] minute I need information. And rightfully so. So again we only had a very tiny portion of this project.

[1:14:39] not near enough to make a decision on. Not near enough to understand the project costs and the future

[1:14:47] costs. The another problem how about electricians. Well you do need electricians

[1:14:55] because you've got to determining the existing lights and abandon the electrical. When that number came in.

[1:15:05] and then it grew maybe we can get how many residents and businesses to pay for it. It turned into a huge mess.

[1:15:16] I I've seen a few of them go like this. Again with my background I was a bit surprised.

[1:15:25] so when I was coming on I wanted to create something that was similar when we created projects and ran projects.

[1:15:35] a very simplified what I used to do. What you have in front of is exactly that.

[1:15:46] the objective the project objective has to be listed, the budget information has to be put in.

[1:15:53] the scope of the project has to be put in. The schedule of the project has to be put in.

[1:15:59] the required personnel and it is city departments, it is county departments, and state departments, contractors.

[1:16:12] what equipment and what material is everybody upon for. And then the same thing for permits.

[1:16:22] who's getting what and doing what. Mandy, I don't see the second sheet the budget sheet.

[1:16:46] >> are you talking -- >> mayor: here's the budget. >> attachment a. >> okay.

[1:16:54] I didn't print attachment a. There's an attachment a that goes with this. >> it's up on the screen now.

[1:17:03] >> attachment a would be part of this. It outlines -- we want to capture what our employee costs

[1:17:13] are when we do a project. We have the city costs, and then the contractor cost and then we get down to the total cost.

[1:17:24] when a project is presented to us this is filled out so that we have something to look at, and when the project is approved by

[1:17:32] a council we fill out a final version of this and then I'm also looking to make somehow officially through resolution or

[1:17:43] whatever, I spoke with mandy briefly on this, so that it has to be done. So in the future no matter who's

[1:17:53] sitting up here or who's coming and going this document has to be filled out so that there's -- two things if people has to fill

[1:18:04] out a piece of paper and sign it they're going to have ownership. It would be good for record what was it at that point in time.

[1:18:15] we can take out this document and see what the basis was for a project. So I was looking to make this so

[1:18:26] that it's required when presenting a project and then a final version is also required and then documented on record.

[1:18:33] when the council makes a decision on a project. Kind of what you alluded to with your question rex.

[1:18:46] I thought son wanted the most expensive version type of thing. It makes it more businesslike than what we've done in the

[1:18:59] past. >> okay. >> so with that said mandy I don't know where to go with

[1:19:08] this. >> one of things we did discuss was adopting this form policy resolution to make it formal.

[1:19:17] you could adopt a resolution creating a policy that it has to be used. That's really the only way I see

[1:19:29] going forward two, three, four years from now you have staff changes, and council changes and it doesn't get lost.

[1:19:41] and you can refer to it that way. >> so does that mean you'll have to write up a resolution.

[1:20:00] can't see when she's rolling her eyes at me. >> she wasn't rolling her eyes she was pulling out a knife.

[1:20:09] >> it should be a very simple resolution. >> andrew do you have any input there.

[1:20:18] simple resolution. Staff can handle that. >> we can take a look at the next workshop.

[1:20:26] >> next month is fine. >> mayor: I agree with this. It seemed like we found the lights.

[1:20:34] we found way signs. We started well it's going to cost this and by the time what it was going to really cost the

[1:20:46] number had grown three or four time. Because nobody had filled out something like this.

[1:20:54] I think it's great man. Glad you did this. Now your unimproved roads. >> we've got a bit of surprise

[1:21:13] out in the dunnellon heights with a road that -- I mean not even on the gis. But when we go back and look in

[1:21:28] records it is shown that at some point there's going to be a road there. Now we've got a homebuilder that

[1:21:40] got permitted to build a house but he gives us a call my concrete truck got stuck. And this particular area is all

[1:21:53] just sugar sand. There's never been an existing road there. So got ahold of andrew to see

[1:22:06] what we're required to do, and at some point we do have to create something because people have access to their properties.

[1:22:17] the issue we don't have anything in the budget. Future budgets are certainly not looking good.

[1:22:27] and chad reached out. But reached out to kimley-horn and kimley-horn sent back a couple of documents from the

[1:22:35] county and the state on how to do a basic type gravel road. And that's all of the further that we're at with this thing.

[1:22:49] >> mayor: which means you've got to dig out the sand and put in a base, and do something on that. >> then we've got to maintain.

[1:22:59] so right now let every body know the most expensive roads is in the dunnellon heights. This year I think last year it

[1:23:18] was $22,000. We don't spend on any road within the city. So the whole dunnellon heights

[1:23:26] thing I'm not sure what happened there. But we've got people complaining about living on a gravel road

[1:23:35] and things that come with a gravel road. The last you can't throw pavement down.

[1:23:42] you have to have storm assessments and all of this engineering et cetera et cetera. It's pushing over fast numbers

[1:23:49] went over $10 million very fast. >> mayor: of course that didn't include a road that we don't normally do like this one.

[1:24:00] >> correct. >> mayor: because this road wasn't on there. >> andrew, if you could help out

[1:24:12] a little bit what our obligation is. >> I'd be happy to. When a city and the original

[1:24:18] plat from 1950s made a public dedication for dunnellon heights was in the county. But whenever there's an

[1:24:30] acceptance upon the entity making the acceptance and any of the successors to make right-of-ways.

[1:24:40] and make sufficient maintenance. But to the extent they have been accepted they do need to be improved so that they are

[1:24:53] useful. >> right now one of the major issues is emergency vehicles. I don't know how an emergency

[1:25:01] vehicling going to get back to any of these week. >> I was thinking that their construction was on stop because

[1:25:10] they can't get access to it. They've come quite a ways. Talking with keel's they've got their slab if inspection.

[1:25:33] what my understanding is -- this is a san angelo road south, north. It would be north that's right.

[1:25:45] we need to get a cost estimate for what it's going to take to do anything. That's going to be some

[1:25:54] engineering in there. Usually my first question where is the money coming from. What time frame does the city

[1:26:03] have to react to this? And will I touched real quick on future budgets are not looking better.

[1:26:19] they're looking worse. This upcoming fiscal budget coming up in may with $279,198 less with this one% sales tax

[1:26:41] for the 24/25 budget. The only reason we're getting anything right now we have -- right now our revenue is

[1:26:53] $372,000. That's going to be $279,000 less next year. The only reason we're not losing

[1:27:05] the 372 we have one quarter in 2024. That expires at the end of december in 2024.

[1:27:16] so for future years so next year we're going to be planning with $279,000 less. We can't create a budget.

[1:27:30] I'm hoping it gets through. It's going to be $372,000 less revenue for roads. I'll leave it at that.

[1:27:52] >> mayor: yep. No, the research that andrew's firm did I read very carefully. And it's very clear once you

[1:28:07] assume a platted subdivision, you've got to make it at least operational for whatever is there, and I guess it hasn't

[1:28:22] been a problem until somebody builds a house down there. >> to add to this problem do you have a map for the rest of the

[1:28:32] unimproved roads, mandy. I believe kelly you supplied this. >> I did.

[1:28:40] >> so if I'm incorrect somewhere just tell me. I believe that the red markings where we have the rest of the un

[1:28:50] improved roads in the city. >> correct. Minus a couple that are not showing but they're short

[1:28:58] sections. >> mayor: that's out 40. >> 40 going west. >> mayor: right.

[1:29:05] and then over in the box springs area. Wow. >> that's really the 9 island

[1:29:13] cove area which is conservation but there are properties. >> mayor: I know there's more than one road -- I think there's

[1:29:25] two in dunnellon heights. They're over here and they run underneath those power lines. >> this is the duke energy

[1:29:40] easement and this is north san angelo, and this is north san angelo and both of these roads are unimproved.

[1:29:49] in addition to those two kelly identified sections of 3rd avenue and second avenue that are on the map as platted

[1:29:58] streets but they're vegetation. >> mayor: right. >> so the immediate issue we have a house going up in

[1:30:13] dunnellon heights. Emergency vehicles can access their property. >> mayor: we need to address

[1:30:20] that first. What you're showing us there's more to be addressed. >> mr. Mayor the lines up there

[1:30:30] the second avenue line, that actually would go through and would come out on the loop that comes out by the library.

[1:30:39] that property was an old muck mine. And the residue from that that muck mine is in there.

[1:30:53] it would be a major major effort to be able to build anything in there including a road. >> because of e.p.a. Stuff.

[1:31:03] >> mayor: where the road makes a circle and comes down. >> that's frankie emeritus. I lived on second avenue.

[1:31:18] I didn't know what street I lived on until they put that sign up when I was a kid. >> mayor: yeah

[1:31:28] >> it would go through that old muck mine. That's why it was never considered in the past to build

[1:31:37] on it. >> mayor: this one that you're talking about has got a house. >> the problem is there's other

[1:31:49] lots. Four or five people come up >> exactly. >> doing a special bond for that

[1:32:11] area to pay for the roads. >> I'm saying yeah yeah that is a question. Where is the money come from.

[1:32:19] can we do -- go ahead jan. Thank you for helping. >> right now at this point in time the only funds you have to

[1:32:33] be able to pledge for a bond issue is your ad valorem. Not recommended. >> correct.

[1:32:41] >> because of the green light debt. All of your excess taxes are pledged to satisfy that debt

[1:32:49] >> got you. >> if the one cent sales tax money is renewed that you could pledge.

[1:33:01] right now you don't have the option to bond. To go out for ad valorem. That is dangerous territory

[1:33:19] there. >> okay. >> so that's where you're at. >> before it slips my mind, so

[1:33:31] that's what we have in front of us now. When I look out to the future, we need something so that this

[1:33:39] never happens again. So somebody can't buy a chunk of land and carve it up. People buy property at a reduced

[1:33:53] price because they're on a gravel road or no road, and then expects other property owners to pay for them.

[1:34:08] are lining their pockets, and then expect everybody else to build a road instead of everything I just said.

[1:34:21] so somehow, there's got to be a way so that this can never happen again. Where somebody buys it up, and

[1:34:36] be carves it. >> non-platted are lands that are replanted. In the case new development you

[1:34:46] have the plot. And you have the ability to require certain dedications. Maybe future roads.

[1:34:58] where the city is going to get the money it needs for the infrastructure. Or in the case there are private

[1:35:07] roads. So you know, historical issues are more of a concern than going forward.

[1:35:21] >> let me ask this andrew. >> is that a law that that can't happen or if there's three of us up here for whatever reason

[1:35:40] agree to let this thing scenario happen. Is that a possibility? >> well you'd be talking about a

[1:35:51] subdivision. Whenever you had impact fees and everything in place. To make sure you have the making

[1:36:02] payments for anything that the city would construct. If impact fees aren't updated it's much more useful.

[1:36:12] and if and they're not covering the cost of the infrastructure coming in there there could be some problems.

[1:36:20] any increase in impact fees is supported by a study. So council decisions can create or be a factor in creating some

[1:36:34] gaps and provision of infrastructure. That is a possibility. But of course that again we're

[1:36:43] talking about new infrastructure as opposed to extremely old infrastructure. Almost to a point that the

[1:36:52] infrastructure doesn't exist anywhere. >> okay. I've got to digest that answer.

[1:36:59] thank you. >> andrew I read your review of the circumstances, from what I read the opinions indicate we

[1:37:13] are responsible for providing access to that property. Reasonable access. >> correct.

[1:37:19] >> so that's the bottom line. We don't have the leeway other than complying with. >> that's my question also.

[1:37:39] correct me if I'm wrong. We don't know there's a time frame. Right now we don't have anything

[1:37:46] in the budget. So do we budget this for next year. Is that acceptable.

[1:37:51] now, that's the business side of me speaking. The human side of if there's an emergency and an emergency

[1:38:06] vehicle can't get out there that's bothersome for me. If we can put this off for a budget year.

[1:38:16] >> at what point does business not matter. >> yes and no. We could get in a situation

[1:38:25] where he wants to enforce our responsibilities upon us, and that could very well happen because as andrew has indicated

[1:38:36] through his recommendation and his assessment that we are responsible, so our legal council has advised us of such,

[1:38:48] first of all ladies and gentlemen I do live in dunnellon heights and this is about a block from my home.

[1:38:56] it has no interest to my family or whatever. I can't anticipate I'd need to use this street.

[1:39:07] I don't think it's a conflict. To provide access to that individual property would be the key.

[1:39:18] is that not true andrew. We're not obligated to connect it to that road. Is it in fact, we can provide

[1:39:30] access which is I think it's two or three lots deep into that street. >> you know.

[1:39:57] there of course is a legal approach that a practical approach. Per law when we look at plats

[1:40:05] and if there's acceptance of any improvements of the plat it's an acceptance of the structure entirely.

[1:40:19] the city is under a legal obligation to provide access throughout the entire plat. From a practical standpoint

[1:40:31] obviously there are limited resources available. I think that's a discussion to have, what provides reasonable

[1:40:40] access, and reasonable maintenance and there's a little bit of leeway and in consultation with emergency

[1:40:48] services that there is access for that property. But understanding constraints and so forth what becomes

[1:41:02] reasonable and what becomes liable. That becomes a sliding scale. Again I think that's a

[1:41:13] conversation I think with emergency and any type of city resource or other service resource that needs access to

[1:41:23] the property to satisfy that reasonable access requirement because there's not a clear definition of that.

[1:41:36] >> with that said if there is a situation out there and it requires an emergency vehicle doesn't happen, and something

[1:41:47] catastrophic happens, and we're holding off because it's not in this year's budget. As jan just showed the different

[1:41:59] reserves we have a 1 million this, a million that. I don't think it's going to work out very well.

[1:42:13] I'd rather prevent that the catastrophe. So with that said looks like what we need to do is like

[1:42:29] kimley-horn or something to do some engineering, et cetera et cetera. Start going down this path

[1:42:40] unless somebody -- I mean I'm coming up with this on the fly. Can you help me mandy. >> anybody that has a path to go

[1:42:52] I'm all ears. >> we do have council contingency funds. Depending how much it would cost

[1:43:03] you could use those money to at least get this started. And it's budgeted, no budget amendment would be necessary.

[1:43:12] I would just transfer money to the department where the engineering is actually occurring like roads and

[1:43:24] streets. Depending on how much it costs a way to get started. You could still do budget

[1:43:31] amendment from other sources. Because this is going to be I believe a capital project. I don't know if if that's the

[1:43:42] way you may go. >> keep reach out to kimley-horn. Have a meeting with kimley-horn

[1:44:28] and figure out what the next steps are. >> mayor: we've got to figure out from them -- sit down and we

[1:44:38] need a fwuge we did the whole road, did part of the road. You guys look at this and tell us how much it's going to cost

[1:44:49] in the engineering, and how much it's going to cost. First off when somebody moves into that house, we've got to

[1:44:57] have an answer or the city is going to be opening themselves up to liability. I think we've got to come up

[1:45:05] with a solution and we need to start working on that now. But that tells me within a year they're going to be there and

[1:45:14] we've got to figure this out quickly. >> could we put something now to -- if somebody comes down the

[1:45:28] road and says hey I better move now I better start buying land so the city is obligated. They made the people pay $12,000

[1:45:46] to run the power in. We could put those assessment what it's going to be. Tell them up front when they

[1:46:07] apply for a permit. They're going to have to pay for $20,000. >> when it comes to assessments

[1:46:17] you've got -- I mean like -- >> looking at a develop you are you say you have an impact fee. >> you have to have a study done

[1:46:29] for an impact fee. >> homeowner would be responsible for an impact fee. But yew got to have the study

[1:46:40] done. But I don't know how long that would take. And then that study would

[1:46:49] provide you with a dollar amount that you would assess that property. Just like the fire assessment

[1:46:57] years ago. But it's got to be defensible in a court of law. >> I understand that.

[1:47:04] I'm trying to figure out if two or three come up. >> I don't think you can arbitrarily give us a $10,000

[1:47:17] deposit because you're going to build. >> mandy, you're not going to like this --

[1:47:28] >> I'm the one that took -- sorry. So public works will work with kimley-horn to start moving the

[1:47:40] physical project forward and see what it looks like. Can you work with jan and whomever to see what we can and

[1:47:48] can't do as far as assessments. >> uh-huh. >> do we need to talk about maybe at the next meeting taking

[1:48:01] some money and moving it into the budget. To see when it comes up hey the money is there.

[1:48:13] >> so we have a better idea what we're really talking about. One of the ideas just throw some lime rock so they can get to it.

[1:48:27] if there's a problem we're liable. >> same thing with the parking lot.

[1:48:33] >> mayor: okay. You're going to create a problem there. Now

[1:48:44] >> let's go ahead and do 6. >> mayor: we're going to go to 6a which is the parking agreements.

[1:48:57] >> excuse me, mayor. >> mayor: uh-huh. >> the vice mayor had moved the council vacancies to after

[1:49:07] agenda 6. >> you want to get through number 6. >> yes, ma'am.

[1:49:17] >> mayor: all right. So we need to look at ord2023-02. Which is a parking agreement.

[1:49:35] I read through it. I didn't see any problems with it. Did anybody have a problem with

[1:49:42] it? >> I read through it but I'm not understanding what issue the changes fix.

[1:49:53] >> there are only a couple. It corrects some codification when the land development regulations were rewritten.

[1:50:05] I can show you -- >> mayor: is that what the underline stuff is. >> yes.

[1:50:12] >> so it's just to fix conflicting language. >> mayor: to comply with the changes in the law

[1:50:23] >> what happened in 2018 the city had hired a planner to draft a resolution. To make changes and that was

[1:50:36] voted on by council, and those changes were not incorporated into the final ordinance that was signed.

[1:50:44] coming through this staff was made aware of that. And supposed to be codified. So these changes while they

[1:50:56] really are part of the code and were instructed by council to be included were never included. So these corrections fix the

[1:51:05] code so it's the way it should be. I do anticipate once the city has its community development

[1:51:16] running a little bit smoother there are a lot of errors that kelly and staff have identified. This is one of many glitch to

[1:51:29] fix the code to the way it should be. The >> mayor: I read through it.

[1:51:35] I thought we were just correcting something. It looked fine to me. >> anybody have a problem with

[1:51:44] it. >> I do not. >> this did go before the planning commission last month

[1:51:50] and they did recommend approval and so you'll have your first meeting on the 13th. And your final public hearing

[1:52:02] and final reading will be in january. >> mayor: okay. Good and deal.

[1:52:10] want to go to the next one. Ord2024-01 which is the mobile vending or basically food trucks.

[1:52:21] I only had one comment. On line 30 we talk about highway 41 corridor and county road 484 coreler.

[1:52:38] then when we flip over to -- it comes up again. Here it is. It's on line 85.

[1:52:54] it says u.s. Highway 41 which is the same but then it's say 44 it says east pennsylvania. To me those ought to be the

[1:53:08] same. It needs to say east pennsylvania or it needs to say 44.

[1:53:20] >> does this mean they can't have a food truck. >> mayor: what has changed the original was we were only going

[1:53:31] to put food trucks on 41. And then we went back and on 41 it has to be 300 feet setback. On 484 or east penn it has to be

[1:53:47] a hundred setback. >> it's not a setback of and it needs to be to the center line. But in the body of your

[1:54:10] ordinance you're only allowing it on east penn, not west penn. There's nowhere for a food truck appropriate to be on the west

[1:54:21] penn. That's why we're providing for both of the corridors, and andrew may have some suggestions

[1:54:29] how to better identify that. >> mayor: the west end is in the historic district >> on east penn outside of a

[1:54:41] special event. As being part of a special event. >> how about we had a month we

[1:54:51] had somebody wanting to put a food truck up on west penn on one of the lots they purchased out there.

[1:54:58] >> it wasn't on the west penn. It was on the corner of illinois and 41. It's a vacant undeveloped

[1:55:09] commercial property. That's also outlined in this ordinance. >> just so I'm clear it just

[1:55:23] says that if somebody opens a piece of land over in the historic district and they're right by the road would they be

[1:55:38] able to get the affidavit. >> not if it a vacant property. >> no. But wait one of the store

[1:55:49] owners. Crazy chicks they wanted to have their usual thing. >> it does not extend that

[1:55:58] direction. So the ordinance does not allow the food trucks to go. So when you have a food truck

[1:56:07] there the food truck there has to be adequate parking for the business and for the food truck. >> mayor: right.

[1:56:16] if you read all this it's going to have a certain amount of parking. You can't put up tables.

[1:56:23] okay. I get what you're saying mandy because when I read this, I know what this means.

[1:56:32] you don't want it on the west penn and that's how you codified. >> mayor: well that was the only

[1:56:41] thing I had with it. 9 rest was fine with me. >> do you have anything. >> no I'm good.

[1:56:53] >> it will go to planning in january, back to you in february. >> mayor: the only thing I

[1:57:02] mentioned to you I saw a food truck on east penn all weekend long. Since we don't have an ordinance

[1:57:12] I guess that's fine. The last one is ord2024-02. This was the animal. Got it.

[1:57:29] and we made some changes. We made it so that it's got to be in the b zone. Kelly.

[1:57:42] >> that's correct. It's commercial -- well animal rescue organizations allowed in b3 and b4.

[1:57:56] as well as setting the limitations to residential -- residents not allowing more than 4 dogs and more than 4 cats more

[1:58:12] than the age of 4 months. >> mayor: they had was that added. >> that is under the definition

[1:58:26] of the animal rescue organization on bottom of page 2. >> mayor: all right.

[1:58:34] I'm good with that. >> this is all goes to planning in january. You won't see it again until

[1:58:47] organization, as well as setting the residences not allowing more than four dogs and four cats over 6 months of age within the

[1:58:59] city limits. >> mayor: did we add anything about -- because I had mentioned it proven they were a qualified

[1:59:12] 501(c)(3) and qualified. >> that is on page 2. >> mayor: all right. I'm good with that.

[1:59:25] are you good with it? >> yes, sir, I'm good with it. You won't see this again until february.

[1:59:38] >> mayor: thank you, folks for bearing with us. We got through the agenda, now we're going to go back to the

[1:59:45] vacancies on the council. Sorry for that, but I think like tim said, I think it's good you all hear some of the things

[1:59:56] we're dealing with. So you can understand where you're going or what you're fixing to jump into.

[2:00:05] all right. You all want to start them in any particular order? Does it matter to you?

[2:00:11] >> I'm good with anything. I kind of put them in the order in which we had the people apply, and adam, since you were

[2:00:23] the first one that applied, do you want to stand up and reeducate us on your background and what you bring to the city?

[2:00:39] >> mr. Mayor, mr. Vice mayor, city councilmembers. I'm a retired -- in my 20 years of service in the federal

[2:01:01] government, where we've had employees up around 7,000 people businesses and policies, that would impact budget, safety,

[2:01:19] moral. So as I read some of the papers talking about the decision of the council last time, I want to

[2:01:29] put out there, I do have experience in the federal government, working with people, employees, and people we

[2:01:41] represent. I once served korea, where we covered the whole peninsula, from the board border of north

[2:01:56] korea. I was responsible for the equipment -- if I could get on to the council -- organizational

[2:02:19] planning. As I said, I listened to the council meetings, I'm excited to hear what you all have to say.

[2:02:29] I have spent a lot of time thinking of the decisions that were made. The roadway.

[2:02:36] a lot of great concerns. Traffic distance. But you know, it was a plan -- the same with a one time --

[2:02:51] [ inaudible ] if I was on the council, I would like to bring forward ideas >> mayor: okay.

[2:03:06] you all have any questions? >> maybe just a comment. The reason we're looking in the past is because the past

[2:03:23] decisions are raising their ugly head in our laps. We want nothing better to do than to move into the future

[2:03:31] stuff. But when we have the budget things that come up, when we have the road problems come up,

[2:03:38] when we have the police department issue that happened, when public works, that whole scenario that happened, between

[2:03:51] public works in the past. We got a lot of stuff dropped in our laps that are the result of, in my mind lack of oversight.

[2:04:04] lack of oversight and pushing people -- people wanting to push through pet projects that do not, that are not in the best

[2:04:13] interest of the majority of the taxpayers, and if I can read this real quick, this is not just to you, adam, this is what

[2:04:27] I was going to start out with. Everyone who applies needs to understand this city's financial and staff constraints.

[2:04:35] too many people have grandiose ideas with no concept of what our constraints are. First thing everybody must ask

[2:04:43] themselves is, how is it going to be get paid for. You just heard how we're going to have less revenue in the

[2:04:53] future. And so -- we must ask themselves, how is it going to get paid for, and who's going to

[2:05:01] do it. Those are the two basic things for anything, money and people. And then I'm going to lead on,

[2:05:08] that is going to kind of explain what I started out with, we're presently cleaning up one mess after another, from years of

[2:05:18] council's pet projects and ideas that were not vetted enough, while there was very little oversight on our departments.

[2:05:27] so we don't have a choice -- when there's no oversight at the police department, we find out it was operating noncompliant

[2:05:36] after everybody left, but to take that on, and I'm not going to get into the details of all that --

[2:05:46] >> mr. Vice mayor, that decision has already been made. I'd like to move past that our police chief and lieutenant --

[2:05:54] we've moved forward on that, as you sit here -- [ inaudible ] I get it, I understand it,

[2:06:00] that's part of any organization, part of any business. The last thing you just told me, I appreciate you trying to

[2:06:09] educate me. That's business 101, you have finance constraints in every organization.

[2:06:15] you have ideas that were good. I understand why you say that. As a constituent, quit kicking the can what you did 10 years

[2:06:30] ago. >> the can -- >> when did the root thing come up?

[2:06:33] when did that come up? >> the road thing, it came up weeks ago. >> when was it put into effect,

[2:06:39] 2018? >> oh, the things that said the plats. >> 1950.

[2:06:50] >> no, the mobile road. >> yes. >> 2018. And we're in 2023.

[2:07:00] we're at 90% -- you've already said we spent money toward it. >> I'm not following your point. >> my point being, you're

[2:07:09] spending more money toward the idea. Your idea is good. Where is your data.

[2:07:14] I'm hearing your concern, your concerns are good. You presented them to this council a couple times, where is

[2:07:21] the data being presented. >> what data. >> the data of the concern, the study, the congestion --

[2:07:28] >> I put that out, the congestion is, 12,000 cars, vehicles per day, okay, from a traffic study.

[2:07:38] and after ua came into this meeting, last meeting, expressed their concern about the water mains.

[2:07:45] I sat in the meetings when fgua expressed their issues and other ones, now we have gotten to the point where there are enough

[2:07:54] issues that have been discovered through the planning process, that we need to take eye look at this project.

[2:08:00] nowhere am I saying we're spending more money, you're putting words out there that were not done.

[2:08:06] here's -- I can tell you, I can wrap this up with you. >> the plan, do we not have to invest more city funds into that

[2:08:14] 1234. >> we have -- >> probably invest less funds. >> yeah.

[2:08:18] >> because we're note going to do all that destruction. >> we have to draft the plans, right?

[2:08:23] >> modify. >> modify, and we don't. We don't know what that looks like yet, we're going to be much

[2:08:29] less construction with the modified version, so there's going to be out of this $5 million, there's going to be a

[2:08:35] lot of that money left over, that could pay most of the plans are already done. The only thing we're talking

[2:08:41] about here is, that would be different outside of the plans would be restriping the parking spots, I'm going to cut to the

[2:08:49] chase -- and I wasn't going to do this, but here's my problem, this seat is a three-year seat, except at -- I had a

[2:08:58] conversation with mandy, because I was confused on all these seats up here. My -- I thought that -- whoever

[2:09:08] gets in this seat, is here for three years. >> no. >> I got corrected on that.

[2:09:16] >> that seat comes up for election in november of next year. >> that's what that paper is,

[2:09:21] it's very important. I thought the same thing you did. >> right, and I even thought

[2:09:25] that your seat was good for three more years, but in november of next year it comes up.

[2:09:32] >> every seat up here, except yours comes up in move. >> that's my understanding as of today.

[2:09:37] now, I'm going to tell you, adam, the deal is up here, there are four of us that are going to vote to put somebody in a

[2:09:45] council seat, rather than however many people are being elected that would typically vote, so my opinion is, we can't

[2:09:54] make a mistake, because we've sat here for years, and seen a lot of good things on council, and we've seen a lot of horrible

[2:10:04] things. We just lost $11,000 last year to a shade shelter, this, that and the other thing.

[2:10:11] I wasn't going to go in this space, but for me, you are a no, and you're a no because of your response at the council meeting,

[2:10:24] looking for candidates, is exactly the opposite of what I would expect from a leadership position.

[2:10:30] instead of explaining where you could help. You chose to give us a lecture on our word.

[2:10:35] this is the exact behavior I'm not looking for. We've had enough drama in this city for years and years and

[2:10:43] years, I want people that are going to come up here and they're going to tell me, they're going to roll up their

[2:10:48] sleeves, take on a road project, they're going toe figure out how we can get grants and all the stuff that the city needs much I

[2:10:55] haven't heard that, the only thing heard was I my integrity is getting scorched. And again that's where I'm at.

[2:11:13] any questions? >> mayor: thank you. All right. Art jones?

[2:11:26] >> hello, everybody. You all know me, I love the rainbow river. I see nothing better than the

[2:11:39] rainbow river being protected. It's been in decline for a long time [ inaudible ]

[2:11:53] people could water ski down it, it was all beautiful. There was no algae. I hear those concerns, and the

[2:12:01] nice thing I bring to the table, I saw what happened down in crystal river. Crystal river, they had those

[2:12:09] concerns too, but nobody did anything until it got so bad, it was nothing but algae down there.

[2:12:16] so bad, they're getting ready to close down hunter's creek park. Danger if you swim in this water, you will get a rash on

[2:12:26] your skin. When I got there, it was like, wow! Is anybody doing anything?

[2:12:31] the answer was no, but somebody should. I got in there with my rake and started cleaning it up.

[2:12:38] and I got rotary to help me. It started to snowball. If you're able to clean up the area -- we were able to save

[2:12:52] three sister's springs. I want to see the same thing happen here, this is a beautiful river I like it when people come

[2:13:02] out and clean up the beach. I was able to get a grant, let's do a pilot project. Let's see if we can improve the

[2:13:10] lorain bow river a little better than it is. My goal is to get the river to the point where we've restored

[2:13:17] it, planted the grass and plants other there, so we don't have to spray herbicides in it. I know people told me I

[2:13:28] shouldn't call herbicides poison, but it is, it poisons the plants. We don't have an alternative to

[2:13:41] maintain the river and keep it open. We proved we have an alternative, expensive.

[2:13:49] it's an expensive alternative. We've done it down in crystal river, proven successful. We're getting the money out from

[2:14:02] tallahassee, which we should. Tallahassee is stepping up to the plate and joining us. I'd like to see the same thing

[2:14:08] happen here. Go up to tallahassee, asked them for help, we got that $1.8 million grant for the project

[2:14:17] going. We're in the process of getting it going. Me being on the council, that's

[2:14:23] going to be my big focus. I am glad someone is in charge of roads. I don't know if we have a

[2:14:29] liaison nor the river, that's going to be my focus, but we have to look at whatever issue I can, what's fair, what's going

[2:14:38] to be beneficial to everybody. For the aquatic manager. They'd like to take some pressure off the upper head

[2:14:48] strength, maybe we can look at blue run park and how we can get a little better access through grants and stuff, we take some

[2:14:57] of the pressure off the upper river. Some ideas to explore. >> mayor: I want to ask you a

[2:15:05] question. I know all about the rake, one rake at a time, I think. You're all over that.

[2:15:13] one question I have about the river, because I live on the river, is in your mind, do you think the number of tubes,

[2:15:23] kayaks and boats on the river is high, low or about right? >> I hadn't really thought about that.

[2:15:35] at times it seems like there's too many tubes at one time, and that's -- >> mayor: I should have said

[2:15:44] during the summer. Right now, there's nobody on the river. >> right.

[2:15:48] and the important thing is that -- maybe the city could do is -- I don't know if it's possible, but if you stop the

[2:15:56] motorboats from going up river, when all the tubers are coming down, that would make sense. So I any if we work with the

[2:16:03] state -- so I think if we work with the state department and fix some of that, okay, no -- that's probably scattered -- and

[2:16:12] also maybe providing extra access or an exit point at the state park >> mayor: all right.

[2:16:19] okay. >> I just want to say, I have -- I understand and totally respect everything you do at the river,

[2:16:27] we've talked many times about the multimodal project. How do you feel about the other problem we've got tonight with

[2:16:36] how we're going to finance the roads or what we're going to do with the roads, because a lot of this job is more than just the

[2:16:43] river. You begin to see it's a lot of things moving together. So how do you feel about the

[2:16:52] expenditure we may have to make with the roads in order to provide service. The people that were obligated

[2:16:57] to that we hadn't planned for. >> I think we can look at getting some help from tallahassee for that.

[2:17:04] with grants, part of the -- one of the beautiful things we have, small municipality, a city, is, when we go up there, we are a

[2:17:13] city. And tallahassee loves small towns. They'll help us, we just have to

[2:17:19] make some good contacts up there, put in some legislative appropriations. Talk to senator perry, ralph

[2:17:27] massulo, see if we can get legislation appropriation to help us, they don't want to see us die.

[2:17:42] >> with what rex just mentioned, the river -- both rivers, I should say, you know, they are jewels, they are jewels, and

[2:17:56] they have to be protected. Wally's not here now, but when his mom and dad had their place here, he spent a lot of time on

[2:18:15] that river when he was a kid, I did too. >> as you mentioned, we could water ski, do this, do that.

[2:18:20] all those things of gone. They're all gone, they're note coming back. So we're not going to look back

[2:18:27] and talk about too much of the old days, but it is a reference in my mind what that river looked like when I was a kid.

[2:18:35] so I don't lose the perspective of what I do when I was a kid, when I see it now. I have a comparison of --

[2:18:46] wally, I just mentioned when you were a kid, spending time at your mom and dad's place on the river.

[2:18:52] >> mayor: right. >> you experienced a sight that you can't even describe now. >> mayor: no.

[2:19:00] >> what I was getting at is, as rex mentioned, we were a multifaceted with the decisions we have to make for our city.

[2:19:11] it's transportation, it's relationships with our community. Our civic organizations,

[2:19:18] everything that ties our community together. >> right. >> what I would hope is your

[2:19:25] advocacy on the river is commendable. And a wonderful asset for this community.

[2:19:31] it's an as its to me to hear your opinions and your approach of our river. But I would hope as you

[2:19:43] mentioned -- you want to venture into other operations in the city. I think that would be key to

[2:19:50] service in the city. >> I was very concerned about -- [ inaudible ] it's not because I live on

[2:19:57] pennsylvania avenue or have a business there, I'm also a member of the chamber, and what's this going to do -- right

[2:20:08] now, dunnellon is parking lot rich, we'll go from parking lot rich to parking lot poor, we heard people come in here, they

[2:20:16] promised us, up know, think weren't going to take away those parking spots, if they were, that was a nonstarter.

[2:20:23] it's good that you get the people in here, you know, I want to get involved, for sure. >> that would be the main

[2:20:32] interest that you -- and I see you share that, it's important to me, and it's important to this council.

[2:20:40] >> I was in rotary for years. Rotary is all about what's fair. >> that's what we want, we want to bind our community.

[2:20:51] >> right. >> that's our goal. >> make this river shine. Pass it on better than we find

[2:20:59] it. >> you answered my concerns. >> mayor: have you asked any? >> no.

[2:21:06] my issue is, I think you have too much special interest with one rake at a time. I'm against special interest.

[2:21:16] everything needs to be looked at. We've spoken a few times, I'm not in agreement with your plan

[2:21:24] for the river. When I speak to the fwc biologists, they are not in agreement either.

[2:21:33] I speak to them many times -- >> who is that? >> the last one we spoke with was the young man at the

[2:21:41] cleanup, at the -- I spoke with bruce all the time before bruce retired. I don't remember their names,

[2:21:49] but the young lady and young man that was at -- >> I don't remember his name. >> when we did the last cleanup.

[2:21:56] they stated there that one of the worst things we can do is rake up the hydrilla, it's going to come back way more prolific,

[2:22:10] and the level bits that go down stream are going to plant themselves and make the situation worse in other areas.

[2:22:18] that could be he said/she said stuff, and I've been around since 1996 on that river, all right?

[2:22:29] so I've seen since then -- and when I hear things like the boat traffic. Right now, the boat traffic is

[2:22:37] the only thing -- where the boat areas are, are pretty much the areas -- I live at the south end of the river, that's what keeps

[2:22:46] everything consistently at the level it's at right now. They gave you the pilot project to do the one rake at a time in

[2:23:01] your canal. That canal used to be full of wild shiners and other stuff, now that the one rake at a time

[2:23:09] happened, the hydrilla has grown back so full and you called the fwc to put more poison in that area.

[2:23:22] I have a problem with the hypocrisy is too strong of a word, but I think you get my gist here.

[2:23:33] >> we've had this conversation before. You go against what the fwc biologists recommend, what they

[2:23:40] said would happen is absolutely what did happen. To me, the first pilot project in your canal failed, you asked

[2:23:50] for herbicides. Let's talk about crystal river in homosassa. That's a whole different animal.

[2:24:08] the areas taken down to white sand, I understand they weren't habitable because of the -- whatever was in there, but once

[2:24:23] they got took down to white sand, those areas are now party coves, you drive by those areas and you can't put another boat

[2:24:32] in there, the wildlife has been displaced with people. I heard many of your lectures coming in here, and you started

[2:24:39] out with, for the manatee, we're going to clean all this up -- >> mayor: can I make a point of order?

[2:24:50] we're assessing what they say, and it's turned into an opinion thing about the river. I understand what you're saying,

[2:24:57] but you understand what I'm saying? >> no, because he is pitching the rainbow river, he is

[2:25:03] pitching his one rake at a time, he got the opportunity toe pitch that, and I'm going to counter it.

[2:25:09] it's important because it says many things about character, et cetera, et cetera, to me. I'm not the one that chose to go

[2:25:18] this route. So you did everything, you vacuumed it up, turned it into party cove.

[2:25:29] the manatees ate the old grass, the solution was to put cages over the grass, I went down with and looked at the area, nothing

[2:25:49] is growing in those cages. No photo synthesis is occurring. The storm surge wiped out most of the eel grass.

[2:25:59] you're speculating it will come back, but I'm not comfortable is with that speculation. >> your idea that we're going to

[2:26:12] remove pressure at the north end of the river, we're going to create a swimming hole, probably outside blue run park and the

[2:26:20] bridge, and we're going to put more people in that area? That makes no sense to me at all.

[2:26:26] now we're going to start a war with the motorboats. The kayakers hate the boats, the boats hate the kayakers.

[2:26:37] the motorboat thing, I'm stunned to hear. I know there are people that live on the south end or the

[2:26:44] north end of the river are pushing for that. They're pushing for that because they don't want people in front.

[2:26:50] most people that are for vacuuming out the river, are the property owners that want the white sand and air bnb's and

[2:26:59] such, they would love to have a white beach in front of their properties. You start on the rainbow river,

[2:27:08] it's all about the otters. I questioned you, we take it down to home sand, we're going to have one party place after

[2:27:17] another where there's white sand and displace the critters. Your comment back was, I am for people over animals, that

[2:27:26] doesn't connect with me. And -- so I just -- >> it's all right, it's okay. >> I see it's too much special

[2:27:38] interest for me, with all these other issues we have, and I think you're going to -- I think that you're going to be more so

[2:27:45] pushing your project, that I adamantly disagree with, I think it's going to ruin the wildlife, it's not going to help it, it's

[2:27:53] going to increase the congestion and safety issues we have on the river now. That's where your focus is

[2:28:01] growing to be. >> I understand your skins, I appreciate you -- >> I'm a no vote.

[2:28:06] I don't -- we've had enough conversations, and heated ones, I don't dislike you, I think you believe you're doing the right

[2:28:14] thing, I don't. That's neither here nor there. But I think the city has a lot of problems, and I think the

[2:28:23] organizations that are in place, the fwc that has all the data on the river and all that you've convinced people that you're a

[2:28:32] scientist, they think you are, not that you've convinced them. I want too go with the biologists, the scientists and

[2:28:42] the data, and again, I'm done, rex, too much special interest for me. >> can I respond?

[2:28:48] >> absolutely. Don't sell your project, though, but -- >> I'm sorry, what?

[2:28:56] >> don't go back to selling your project. >> we've heard it all. >> correct inconsistencies, when

[2:29:06] you say that by raking up the hydrilla you spread it more, the hydrilla is already super saturated in rainbow river, it's

[2:29:17] everywhere. By removing hydrilla, you're taking it out in shifts, there's pieces floating out.

[2:29:25] there's already hydrilla down there, super saturated. I'm not sure if you went meant the one rake at a time failed,

[2:29:36] we tried raking it out, we got quite a bit of it out. We couldn't rake it out -- we started, it was already super

[2:29:47] saturated, the hydrilla. It was already full. Fwc has been treating the hydrilla for 35 years.

[2:29:59] we don't like it, but if you don't treat it, it takes over, you can't get a boat through there.

[2:30:06] it's not that I'm a hypocrite, I told this to fwc, I asked if they not use super k when I saw those palmer jelly's, they said

[2:30:18] it's an important part of our toolbox, and we really need to use it. Okay.

[2:30:22] I'm not going to be out there with signs or this or that, I want to work with the state agencies, and what happened in

[2:30:30] kings bay, give us a reason that we don't have to use herbicides. We did, we put our backs into it, we cleaned it out.

[2:30:39] yes, we started cleaning the swimming area for the kids, and it helped the aquatic life also. Yeah, I'm about doing it for the

[2:30:50] people and the aquatic life benefits. Don't get me wrong, I care about the animals and I care about the

[2:30:56] people, the otters, and otters main source of food are okay fish, which grow down in eel grass.

[2:31:03] you don't see many of them down in the high drill la, the other problem we really have in this river, is because they have bee

[2:31:17] strangled for 35 years, it's the muck. When you get the muck out, you'll get back to the natural

[2:31:28] bottom, get ready to plant the eel grass, bring back the aquatic life. It's a lot of work, it's why we

[2:31:36] need the state to help us unite. Out. People like to accuse me of being an environmentalist, I'm

[2:31:49] actually a rotarian, doing the best for all concerned. We want dunnellon to be a shining city on the river, just

[2:31:57] like -- there is a shine willing city on the bay, that used to be a nasty disgusting bay, and that's why there's so many

[2:32:06] people there. It's cleaned up. And you go down there later, it's quiet, peaceful, aquatic

[2:32:15] life has come down. We have about 75% survival, it will come back. But nothing's ever perfect.

[2:32:23] >> I understand that. >> can I stop you all? >> yes, I'm done. >> mayor: I heard this back and

[2:32:30] forth, and that's great, that really doesn't talk about the city. I hate to say it that way.

[2:32:37] I brought in thighs -- these books, they've been sitting here the whole meeting. These books are everything the

[2:32:48] city has given me in the last 11 months to read. Okay? Every one of these binders,

[2:32:58] every time I come to a meeting, I put them in a binder, when I get through the meeting, I put them in one of these binders.

[2:33:06] none of this has to do with rainbow river, I can tell you that. >> yeah, it's too bad.

[2:33:13] >> that's about everything else we do here in the city. Personally, I'm looking for someone that can help us solve

[2:33:22] these problems, okay? Now, for example. I don't know if you were involved with this, we had a

[2:33:30] little discussion here about short term rentals. This binder is the information in dunnellon on short term

[2:33:39] rentals. That's all that's in this binder. What I'm trying to hit on is,

[2:33:45] the river's important, clearly. But what we do on this council, has everything else to do -- but doesn't have anything to do with

[2:33:55] the river. >> yeah, you've been ignoring the river. >> it's not our river, it's the

[2:34:00] state's river. >> mayor: the state owns the river. >> we own the river.

[2:34:07] >> we don't even the river, it's the state's river. >> mayor: let's not do that. The things and problems we deal

[2:34:16] with, are a lot of problems that have nothing to do with the river. The short term rentals did,

[2:34:22] because they're on the river. So they're different things, and believe it or not, this isn't all I got from the city, there's

[2:34:30] only one copy of jan's 12,000 copy of the budget. Okay? I only kept one.

[2:34:37] it's over there. Because I can see it. But what I'm saying is, we spend a lot of time having to study

[2:34:46] and read, whether it's the bridge projects, parking, leases, whether it's short term rentals, whether it's the police

[2:34:57] department, we're dealing with a lot of issues that don't have anything to do with the river. What I'm personally looking for

[2:35:04] is someone to sit in that seat that can help us solve all the problems. >> like I said, I'm a rotarian,

[2:35:11] what's beneficial to all concerned. And what's fair. >> I appreciate you coming in.

[2:35:16] and putting your name in the hat, and we'll go from there. >> okay. >> mayor: thank you.

[2:35:24] >> thanks, art. >> mayor: everybody good with that? Okay.

[2:35:28] the next one I had was valerie hanchar. >> valerie hanchar. Thank you all for considering me

[2:35:52] for this position. I saw that it was vacated, and I appreciate all the hard work that has been turn.

[2:36:04] I appreciate it -- it's a thoughtless job at times, and, you know, nobody comes up here on purpose to start off -- they

[2:36:16] all have good ideas and no one intentionally tries to harm the city. I think you start off asking us

[2:36:31] to listen to the meeting. As far as 4-b. Just a parking lot for the -- I would recommend the gas tax, I

[2:36:53] believe that is -- [ inaudible ] it's been there for so long, unless you have reason to tell

[2:36:58] me otherwise -- that would be my recommendation to do that. I wanted to make one question. Is that the entire parking lot

[2:37:12] that goes to the offices? That needs to be repaired, someone's going to trip and fall, it's already down to the

[2:37:28] dirt. We've seen bands aids put on a time too many. Thank you for that.

[2:37:35] the multimodal just to clarify that, started back in 2012, not 2018, but like you, and I'm not as organized as you, I had

[2:37:49] paperwork regarding the multimodal from back in february of 2018. There were a lot of different

[2:37:58] meetings that I attended on and off the council suggesting -- the city council fire department paperwork still from 2018.

[2:38:10] so just wanted to clarify that. The 5-b was the project checklist. I think that's a great idea.

[2:38:23] I'm not sure if jan had a chance to look at it, and the other city department heads, to make sure that's something that is --

[2:38:32] can be produced before the project is approved, like the time of -- how much time would be managed by the city staff.

[2:38:42] that may be something that's not a known factor until they got into it a little bit. >> no, that was a request when

[2:38:49] this thing was put out. The answer should be yes. Department heads, it was done. >> it went out to everybody.

[2:38:56] >> yeah, it was done with mandy, jan, public works. >> that was just a question of mine.

[2:39:02] >> sure, no, I'm just answering it, right. >> can we abate second street. I know where it's abated, that's

[2:39:14] not being used. [ inaudible ] and then the unapproved road out there, in dunnellon heights,

[2:39:30] we've all been on dunnellon heights, we've driven back and forth for baseball teams. As a realtor, I drive on a lot

[2:39:41] of roads like that, the one closest to the city limits of dunnellon, that has had new homes built by albania, would be

[2:39:53] dunnellon oaks. Those roads are being maintained, it's a subdivision that has a lot of dirt roads as

[2:40:00] well, and I have almost been stuck on those roads as well. So my thought process is, not that I think it's the right

[2:40:10] thing, don't get me wrong on that, but was the county also doing regarding those types of issues.

[2:40:18] you look at ocala, rolling oaks or rolling hills, the exact same scenario that we're talking about, you all are talking

[2:40:30] about -- even silver springs had roads, it's now dirt. Some of them -- maybe we could reach out to our county road

[2:40:43] departments to see how they're addressing that issue. That just may be one way for us to --

[2:40:48] >> I can answer that one real quick. >> if you go to dunnellon oaks right now, you better take a

[2:40:54] four wheel drive, those roads are in atrocious condition, and the county does not maintain those roads, they -- the people

[2:41:02] that live in have to maintain those roads. >> yes, but all those areas are more county -- there are

[2:41:16] resources we could reach out to our partners in the county, and find out how we could get something set up.

[2:41:24] >> that's what mandy was asked to do, different ways to find funding and stuff like that. >> those are solutions I would

[2:41:33] come up with, or questions I would come up with, what I've been doing since not being on city council, driving my husband

[2:41:41] insane at home, I have had problem solving -- I see something on facebook, one instance at gua in hot springs,

[2:41:55] there was a chlorine issue going on. Nothing was being done about it, I reached out to some of my

[2:42:02] contacts. I still have at fgua. It was taken care of and rectified within a week.

[2:42:15] they stepped on it, once I made a phone call to them, they got on top of it, and I appreciated the effort, and the phone call

[2:42:27] that they were now receiving from fgua. So I have been active doing those things where I still have

[2:42:42] contacts. I have been still volunteering with my city, I've been -- I was a judge for the parade.

[2:42:58] I've been with the boys and girls club, done other things, I am still an active member of my city, even though I am not on

[2:43:06] the city council, I still -- this is my home, and this is where I will always be. And help wherever I am needed or

[2:43:15] asked. As far add working with the individuals on city council, it's always been an honor,

[2:43:22] sometimes we all get along, sometimes we all want to look at each other like omg, how do you say that?

[2:43:29] but the goal is to be able to leave here at the end of the evening and go out for a proverbial beer, even though we

[2:43:38] can't do that, because of the sunshine laws. I love talking to rex at my mailbox, if we're both on city

[2:43:53] council, we can say hi, how are you doing, your dog's cute. After that, it would be the end of our conversation.

[2:44:01] we know the good, bad and ugly, and some of the things I voted for in the past, I've proud of, some of the things I voted for

[2:44:12] in the past, I wish I hadn't. But I know there are only good intentions with whatever I do on the city council.

[2:44:21] I'm not perfect, nor do I pretend to be perfect. That's me in a nutshell. I will be able to take over

[2:44:39] immediately. I have my business cards that say valerie hanchar city council.

[2:44:46] and I'm already saving you money. I have to be a smart alec every once in a while.

[2:44:52] I get nervous sitting and speaking in front of people. Any questions? >> okay, valerie, I'm going to

[2:45:08] start out with, once the election was over, the way you treated this council was like a personal vendetta, had nothing

[2:45:23] to do with issues or anything. You came to that podium, chastised us over the police department.

[2:45:29] and hope -- two of you guys ran to save money on the budget, I hope you're happy now. That whole police department

[2:45:38] thing happened on your and other council people's watch. There was no oversight on that police department, which allowed

[2:45:46] that police department to operate noncompliant in many, many areas to the point that after the mass exodus and the

[2:45:57] present chief and lieutenant ron were wise enough to bring in outside auditors and see what we had, we were stunned by the

[2:46:06] findings. Not only were we stunned by the findings, there were a few instances where -- and these

[2:46:13] findings were findings that we have had during other audits for a number of years. Then there were a couple cases

[2:46:24] where we literally had four days to make this happen or that happen, whether we were going to shut down our police department.

[2:46:32] I didn't see -- there was no oversight whatsoever with our police department. Yet you come in here, cast

[2:46:39] stones at us, about the whole police department thing. And that was something that got dropped in our lap.

[2:46:46] we had nothing to do with that, during a lame duck session, the council you participated on bought a church, begin, during a

[2:46:59] lame duck session. Brought a church that many people spoke out against, that the money that was going to have

[2:47:08] to be put in, et cetera, et cetera. But you all decided you voted for it, to go ahead and buy this

[2:47:14] church anyway, oath to find out nobody did their due diligence and this church building could never be a police station.

[2:47:23] so all the time and money and drama that was wasted on that, you brought up fought springs, for two years, maybe three

[2:47:35] years, there was a flooding issue, in the springs. We campaigned through the area, that was everybody's issue in

[2:47:45] that area. We've been flooding down here for years. But the first time I got on

[2:47:49] here, the first time, okay, that we got a heavy rain, public works brought us out there, look at what we got, people can't

[2:47:56] even pull into their drive ways, it is knee deep in water, if somebody did walk-through there, when we're in there pumping it

[2:48:05] out. What did we discover? We're standing there, and matt looks over, look right next to

[2:48:11] us, there's an alligator in this drain at the end of these people's drive way. They've been living with this

[2:48:17] stuff for years. Nothing was done about it. The budget got raised, you know, I wasn't on council then, I will

[2:48:31] be through the budget. This is my third year. Jan was kind enough to put up with me even before I was up

[2:48:38] there. Explain how this worked, that worked, last year I knew the taxes did not have to be raised.

[2:48:45] I knew where the emergency needed to go and not go, because of my experience of running multimillion dollar projects,

[2:48:52] budgets are normal business for me. Yet, when I brought it up, I got a three minute, yeah, yeah,

[2:49:00] yeah, thank you. And I'm listening to everyone up here clap, we did it as a team. The only thing you did was raise

[2:49:08] taxes and raise them needlessly. The proof is in the pudding, the own am thing I did is take my information from last year,

[2:49:16] applied it to this year, and we didn't have to raise taxes and the revenue is no different. I'll leave it at that.

[2:49:25] I can't find -- bring something up, I can't find anywhere, anything that was fixed during your tenure, however, I did

[2:49:37] witness plenty of drama between you and the old mayor, wasted time and expense of everybody. I'm not laying all that on you,

[2:49:44] but you participated. And that's not what we -- that's not what I want to go back to, okay?

[2:49:52] again, I'm up here voting rather than all the voters out there voting, and I'm going to be responsible for my vote.

[2:50:02] I don't want to continue with that -- I don't want to go back to that kind of behavior, I want to see issues fixed, I want to

[2:50:11] see people roll up their sleeves. I don't want to see this meeting turned into the glee club or the

[2:50:20] grammy awards. I want people to roll their sleeves up, get in the issues that wally has mentioned.

[2:50:28] not just come up here and talk about it, but actually help the staff, work with the staff, give them -- not tell the staff go do

[2:50:37] this, but offer them a project. Here, I see this is not -- we can do better than this on this, and give them a product.

[2:50:44] not just -- lip service. So unfortunately, I'm a no with you, valerie. I'm done.

[2:50:58] >> mayor: rex or walter, do you have any questions? >> well, first of all, I've known valerie a long time, I

[2:51:07] know her family, I know her commitment to our community, and I'm proud to say that. The issues about the subject she

[2:51:18] brought up, the police department and everything. It happened in the last five years, I wasn't involved in that

[2:51:29] period of time. And it was disturbing to me to see some of the actions that took place.

[2:51:37] but I've always had a lot of faith in valerie's judgment. I've always enjoyed listening to her viewpoints.

[2:51:48] I know where her heart is because she's an old friend of mine. The community needs people who

[2:51:55] have a heart for their hometown. You certainly have that. I'm not a party to any criticisms or comments for the

[2:52:03] last five years, the only thing I spoke of in this city council was I requested hip for our dunnellon little league to get

[2:52:12] our lights fixed. The city agreed to do that, I was grateful for that effort. I came in and spoke concerning

[2:52:20] millions of dollars worth of grants that I worked on while I was in office. Those are the only two items

[2:52:26] that I remember ever speaking to on the council. I always found when I did speak, I was respected and had no

[2:52:36] reasons not to appreciate valerie's performance. >> mayor: we're good? >> may I just respond very

[2:52:51] quickly? >> mayor: sure. >> as far as the lame duck session, I don't believe in lame

[2:52:57] ducks. If I were sitting up there, I would work every single day until the day I leave office.

[2:53:08] I don't believe in lame duck session. I believe you work until the day you walk out the door.

[2:53:15] just to let you know that, as far as not having any due diligence on the property. I took two separate contractors,

[2:53:27] one was from naples, didn't know a thing about dunnellon, he knew dunnellon, he didn't know any of the politics about dunnellon.

[2:53:40] I did do my due diligence. Engineer, I am not. I didn't know until someone told me that.

[2:53:52] I did do my due diligence to the best of my ability that I was able to do. As far as the flooding issues,

[2:54:05] those subjects had been brought to the attention of public works in the past, I've never been told about knee deep water from

[2:54:14] a resident. I don't go driving around after rainstorms to look at everybody's drive ways, but if

[2:54:25] I'd ever been told there had been an issue of that sort. My first phone call would have been to anyone in public works,

[2:54:32] to try to get those situations rectified. And yes, I will say there was drama up there, with our former

[2:54:42] mayor. It was disturbing, I am human. It is not my preference to have had that happen to me, but there

[2:54:55] were a lot of personal -- [ inaudible ] it is regrettable. It's not what I look forward to

[2:55:07] do. I have worked on many city councils, back to when I was 28 years old.

[2:55:19] I can tell you that we would have our differences, and like I just said, we would go out and have a proverbial beer, which we

[2:55:32] could never do. We worked on city councils, we never agreed on things, but we would be civil to one another.

[2:55:46] the attitude of the council that was brought to us the last time, I did not appreciate it. I'm sorry if I was a partner to

[2:55:55] it. When you take so much, you sometimes have to come out and can't be that lame duck sitting

[2:56:00] up there doing nothing. So my apologies -- it was offensive to me as well. Just ask my husband.

[2:56:17] and as far as not offering the employees of the city -- that one probably hurts the worst I've always gone to the city

[2:56:32] aids and asked, what can I do to help. When there have been shortages on this staff, give me a phone,

[2:56:42] how can I help. I have seen grants come up, I will call any of the appropriate departments and give them that

[2:56:51] information. When I have seen different -- I don't want to say the word services, you have that one in

[2:57:01] my mind now, products to help streamline things, I have gone to them and said, hey, have you heard about this?

[2:57:08] I can't give you a list of what it was, we have had city councilmembers sit up there on occasion, and say.

[2:57:16] I'm up here, because I want to make a legacy, I want to make sure people knew I was up here. That has never been what I've

[2:57:25] ever wanted. For me to tell you -- let me say this one, tim. When I was on the city council

[2:57:34] in my younger days, we had walmart coming in, I fought for walmart to have to have somebody in that old walmart, I did not

[2:57:47] want blight. That attorney would come in every meeting, she had to be here, and say, madam, vice mayor

[2:57:55] or madam councilwoman, whatever I was at this point, these are the poem I've contacted, these are the companies that we're

[2:58:04] trying to get them into there. I went to the postal service too try to get them to take that over.

[2:58:10] I made sure the little side road that's there between our old walmart and new walmart -- I insisted upon that road being

[2:58:24] there, I did not want city blight. I'm embarrassed to sit up here and tell you that, but I do

[2:58:32] things that sometimes I don't want it to be -- it's not about me, it's what's for the betterment of the city of

[2:58:43] dunnellon. So I just want to let you know, that yes, sir, I have made nice additions to this city that

[2:58:56] people probably don't know about. But future again races will still be -- generations will

[2:59:04] still be profiting from. And I'd be happy to still sit beside you. >> mayor: okay.

[2:59:12] I have a couple questions. One. I know you've served on the council for quite a while, how

[2:59:19] many years have you served on the council. Can you remember? >> 10?

[2:59:39] don't hold me to that. >> mayor: I knew it was 8 and then a lot before that. I have a couple comments.

[2:59:44] I don't -- want to dwell on this church bag too much, but one thing I thought was odd, the city was going to sell the

[2:59:57] church building, I don't know, the next month, you wanted it brought up again and voted on again.

[3:00:03] and the vote was 3 to 2 the first time, and 3 to 2 the second time. That seems to me to be a waste

[3:00:11] of time. I didn't understand why you thought the votes would change. Because they weren't.

[3:00:20] the next thing I'm going to say is when it got to running for you is positions. I'm not a politician, I've said

[3:00:30] that from day one. Sitting out there and watching the way this council worked and you don't deserve all the blame,

[3:00:41] I will give you that. There were a lot of problems up here. We could all see it, okay, so

[3:00:48] don't feel like this is all on you. And that's probably the aren't mayor left one month after the

[3:00:59] new council got on here. He realized he wasn't going to change us, we were going to complaining him.

[3:01:07] the one thing I notice is why I ran. I'm hearing you talk about all this but every meeting it seemed

[3:01:19] to me, sitting out there, you were not prepared. You had not studied like I study, you had not read the

[3:01:27] material, you asked a lot of questions, when you start talking, you start talking and it's like a runaway train.

[3:01:35] and you just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk, until it finally comes back around. Until it's finally stopped.

[3:01:47] I know you're passionate, I'm the same way, nothing gets accomplished with all that talking.

[3:01:57] sitting out here, I watched you come in here and not be prepared. >> can I comment on that?

[3:02:06] >> okay. Sorry. >> the other thing -- I'm going to say something -- every time I

[3:02:12] got on that podium and talked to the council, I would look at you, you'd be scribbling, you would roll your eyes, look down,

[3:02:21] look at me, roll your eyes, like I'm wasting your time. And I felt like that was an insult to me to stand up there.

[3:02:37] you stand up at the second meeting we're in, and you jump on me and I roll my eyes at you, just to see what you'd do, and

[3:02:46] you went nuts. But did I ever go nuts standing out there? I didn't say a word to you about

[3:02:54] rolling my eyes at you, but you did. And I'm like, tim, what we inherited in that will police

[3:03:03] department, we're lucky we have a police department. And that police chief was there for six years, and did nothing.

[3:03:12] nothing. And everybody on this council for six years had to have known it.

[3:03:22] I'm the only one that wrote the man up and gave him a horrible review so he quote. Nobody but me, I'm an sob.

[3:03:33] at the time, everybody in this town jumped on me, how I could fire our police chief who was so wonderful.

[3:03:41] I'd like you to go over and sit down with ron and our new chief, and get a debrief of what they found.

[3:03:49] it was unbelievable. That's all I'm going to say. And for you and everybody else to attack this council when he

[3:04:01] left, I was furious. Because I knew things you all didn't know. I think it was totally uncalled

[3:04:11] for, you and our former mayor, who got up and criticized me personally for what I did. And I can tell you this, I

[3:04:23] jumped all over billy woods that night. And I regretted it, and I apologized to everyone in this

[3:04:29] audience, I went over and apologized to him. We worked very hard for the next month and saved this department.

[3:04:42] billy woods and I are good friends now. He and I -- that was a coup that was worked out with billy and

[3:05:00] mcquaid. None of them are to be hired back in this department. That's how bad they were.

[3:05:04] you all don't know how bad it was. But for you y'all to stand up, we've been here 30 days and jump

[3:05:14] on me and all of us, that was wrong, valerie. I'm sorry. Now you can speak.

[3:05:20] >> and I have never seen an audit. That's a good thing you brought up, that you want a -- the

[3:05:33] audits that are due from the different departments. That was not something we knew there was an audit.

[3:05:43] I never knew there was an audit needed for the police department. Did not know that, had not --

[3:05:50] did you ever know we had to have audits of the police department wild you were on city council? I don't remember any of them

[3:05:58] being brought up to us, unless there was an issue being raised. My apologize, I didn't know. >> we're here to provide

[3:06:07] oversight, oversight is the major function of this council. >> miss hanchar asked me a question, let me answer it.

[3:06:17] >> yes, sir. >> valerie, had I realized in the meantime, there was a problem, as you said, if you

[3:06:26] realized there was a problem, you would have spoken up. I did not see a problem, we had gone through a transition, when

[3:06:33] I was in office, we had a lieutenant from the sheriff's department, operating our police department in that time.

[3:06:44] I'm going balk a little bit, it worked out well, to get us into a transition period to hire a police chief.

[3:06:52] we went through a search process, and we made a determination, and we hired a veteran police officer with the

[3:06:59] county, and that was mike mcquaid, we hired him on his references and his ability that were relayed by his record.

[3:07:11] and that's what we went by. And then as we went on it, it didn't overlap that much, because I've been gone five

[3:07:19] years, I never saw an instance or heard of an instance of concern, at that point in time. I can't -- as I said, I had not

[3:07:28] done any public comments, criticisms or anything, concerning city policies for the last five years.

[3:07:37] as far as at the beginning, valerie, I did know the circumstances where he was hired, and he I did review his

[3:07:49] resume and recommendations. That's when he was hired at that point in time. >> you probably didn't know that

[3:07:55] he negotiated to where he didn't have to adjust salaries for any of our policemen the whole time he was here with the union.

[3:08:04] the first time it was renegotiated was the year we took over. We found out he hadn't done it,

[3:08:11] or allowed the union to adjust salaries in five years. >> we did adjust salaries -- >> mayor: no, you adjusted

[3:08:20] salaries. But the union was never allowed to come in here and adjust salaries, that's why when the

[3:08:28] union came through. Nobody on the police department understood they had a raise. That was the other thing that

[3:08:33] was amazing. They were getting raises and they didn't even know it. >> I fought for that --

[3:08:39] >> when the union came in, you had the honor of sitting down with them and negotiating this, and all of their salaries were

[3:08:49] drastically raised, that's how bad it was. >> okay. That's good.

[3:08:53] >> mayor: no, no, you all gave them raises up here, they weren't being supported by their union, because mcquaid had

[3:09:01] worked out a deal that the union wouldn't come in. >> I would have never known that until you told me that.

[3:09:08] but thank you for that. And about me not being prepared for my work, I'm going to take issue with that one, yes, sir, I

[3:09:18] answered all my emails, I did my homework, and if I asked a lot of questions up there, it was sometimes -- a lot of times to

[3:09:32] correct misinformation that was being presented by citizens in the audience, even that they heard it from us, think still

[3:09:44] are saying the same wrong information, that's when I would give it to jan, is that coming out of the xyz placement or is

[3:09:54] that coming from -- I was trying to do it in a manner and for some of my councilmembers where I was trying not to insult them

[3:10:06] by their lack of not knowing the correct answers or not hearing it. Sometimes you have to hear it

[3:10:13] three times before you actually understand it -- >> mayor: I'm still going to say what I said.

[3:10:26] I don't think you were prepared. You're not as prepared as the three or four of us are. I talked to staff about this,

[3:10:35] they said the same thing. This council has been more prepared than any council that's ever sat here.

[3:10:41] we ask more questions and we get more answers. >> that is great. I'm sorry you were insulted

[3:10:49] about the police department. We were going off the information that we were given and that we were to understand

[3:10:58] >> mayor: given by who? By the chief? >> by the chief, by staff, I'll give you that.

[3:11:07] I'll let you know that, my first priority will always be our citizens and our staff >> mayor: that's very clear, I

[3:11:20] heard that six years in a row. That all you're interested in is staff. No.

[3:11:27] >> no. >> mayor: I get that, but if we have a police department that is not run correct, that affects

[3:11:33] the citizens valerie, I'm sorry. I was sitting there in the real world watching our police department do nothing.

[3:11:40] I kept telling them there's drug problems downtown, speeding in downtown. Mcquaid would look at me like,

[3:11:49] drop dead. The council until me what to do, you don't. I got up here and told him what

[3:11:57] to do. >> he had probably one of the best safety records in the state.

[3:12:06] >> we have a better police department now -- >> I'm not saying. I've been through different

[3:12:11] police departments. I appreciate all your concerns. And I would consider it an honor to be on the city council.

[3:12:23] >> mayor: all right. Golly. Chuck dillon. >> chuck dillon, I live at 20320

[3:12:36] palmetto lane. What I would like to do is let you know some solutions for the problems I see.

[3:12:57] I've been on the council 13 years? Mayor two. Been intimately involved in

[3:13:04] dunnellon heights from the get go. There is an andrew, jan can look into it, there's $120,000

[3:13:19] sitting in an escrow account somewhere. It's in city minutes, because bill white came up and tried to

[3:13:27] get us to put water and sewer in there. He was willing to put in the $120,000 to put water in.

[3:13:37] somewhere, I don't know where, but somewhere there was -- $120,000. The problem with dunnellon

[3:13:45] heights is, I think the council needs to just -- I'm not going to say that ah, I promised myself I'm not criticizing, I've

[3:13:59] not come for it. There is a provision that allows you to pave the roads in there, at a cost of one third of the

[3:14:10] cost of the roads. That provision is, each person pays a third, a third, a third. I have property in there, I'm

[3:14:18] willing to pay it. We've had people coming up saying we don't want to pay it, but we want to city to do

[3:14:30] something. I think if it gets to the point where we wouldn't to do something about that.

[3:14:35] that is an alternative. A third, a third, a third. I think that's realistic. The last grant we got, the

[3:14:46] planning commission wanted to put the $825,000 into putting roads into dunnellon heights. The public works director came

[3:14:58] in, and told those people it could be done for 3 million. I told them it would be closer to 10 million, by the time you

[3:15:10] got in there and. That's one option. The other option is, if you do the third, third, third -- and I

[3:15:20] may be wrong on this, what's happened is. I can tell you, I paid $750 when I first came here.

[3:15:30] you got a problem with the builder going in there. Do that. We're going to go ahead and fix

[3:15:39] that. But you're going to pay a third I we're going to pay a third and the city's going to pay a third.

[3:15:47] valerie was talking about how the county handles things. The county has authority we don't.

[3:15:57] they have taxing interests. The homeowners. We can't do that. Another option I wasn't on the

[3:16:17] board, when we did the cra. When we did the cra. We knew we had a problem in dunnellon heights, we included

[3:16:29] dunnellon heights in the cra. There should be cra money in there to make improvements in dunnellon heights.

[3:16:41] the other thing, and I just have to make a comment -- I was going to email mr. Dunn but I doesn't. I thought I'd keep my nose out

[3:16:51] of it. The best thing you did for the police department, was make a statement saying the people in

[3:17:03] rainbow springs don't run this city. The people of rainbow springs have been running this city for

[3:17:13] the last 25 to 30 years. The drinkers used the manatees coming up into the rainbow river to get boat speeds limited.

[3:17:30] these conservationists use anything they can to make their points. Those are solutions.

[3:17:42] the other solution I talked to mandy about. We have a lot of roads in dunnellon that are not used.

[3:17:49] they're on pits. Second straight, you couldn't drive down there with a monster truck.

[3:18:02] he's coming for the council to say -- if those streets aren't needed for access than aggregate them.

[3:18:15] the property owner wins, they get 25 feet of property and the other property owners win. That's another solution you

[3:18:26] could use. I made a lot of mistakes -- I argue with everybody. When we did the comp plan the

[3:18:41] rainbow river conservation club wanted to write the comp plan. And they initiated this river corridor and said, you have

[3:18:51] to -- from planning -- you have to compute the amount of frontage on the river to decide how much you can -- it was all

[3:19:03] crazy. I stand behind the comp plan the other thing the council did prior to us.

[3:19:11] they made every lot in blue cove too. We have council people that decided they didn't want people

[3:19:25] to develop the property. They made it low density. There won't be a lot in blue cove two you can built on.

[3:19:40] we grandfathered in all the lots of record prior to 2008 which made all those lots -- I'd like to solve problems.

[3:19:56] I looked at the applicants, decided I had as much chance as they do, maybe I don't, but any questions you have, criticisms,

[3:20:09] whatever. I know how hard it is to sit up there. It's hard to hold your tongue.

[3:20:16] >> you got that right. >> that's all I have to say. >> have you discussed this with janie?

[3:20:28] >> yes, I have. >> and what was her reply? >> no. >> were you listening?

[3:20:35] >> no. >> there's a case right there, chuck, where I think your judgment is out of whack.

[3:20:42] janie knows a lot more about what you need to be doing. >> there's got to be a woman out there to keep the rest of the

[3:20:51] men straight. >> I would -- >> when it comes to this city, and what I can do for this city,

[3:21:06] that's fine. If you decide you don't want me, that's fine too. She is totally against it.

[3:21:16] >> I don't have a janie in my life, you are fortunate to have one in your life. Everyone knows that.

[3:21:26] it takes a lot of your time to serve this city. Other than janie not going along with you, I already know you,

[3:21:40] chuck. I know the pluses and minuses. The one thing I didn't address that I needed to address.

[3:21:49] the multimodal -- when we first roughed that up, it was all we were going to do. We were going to put stripes in

[3:22:05] there, you see it everywhere. I'm up at flag letter beach -- >> 240, all the same -- then the people of rainbow springs got

[3:22:19] involved. What they wanted. They wanted a bridge across the river, so people could come from

[3:22:27] blue run park across the river and not have to -- the other thing is -- just because I work with them a lot --

[3:22:40] >> sure, right. >> so what happened was, there was one 18 hadn't $8 million in the original funding budget for

[3:22:54] them to move all their lines. When push came to shove that money was taken -- the waterlines or sewer lines under

[3:23:11] the road, that's down -- all fuga has to do is sleeve them, they sleeve them with steal, and then they run it, you're not

[3:23:23] going to have -- as a contractor -- >> just to help with that part of the conversation, the water

[3:23:35] main -- it's not the sewer lines, the gravity lines. It's on the north side of the road.

[3:23:43] they're not going down that deep. They're going to remove an inch and a half of blacktop and

[3:23:51] resurface that area. They will not be used to do any sleeving or anything with them. >> I did not know that.

[3:24:01] >> that -- so two other things -- andrew, does your firm still represent -- [ inaudible ]

[3:24:14] >> yes. >> to your point about the short term rentals, I have one right in front of my house.

[3:24:22] I know it's every week. Flag letter beach has got an excellent solution. What they do, they hand out.

[3:24:35] they determine how many licenses they want to give out, they gave out those licenses and then they go with the property someone

[3:24:46] comes in there, that guy can rent out the property -- if we don't do something about that. The most around the rainbow

[3:25:01] river are going to be short term rentals, they don't care. They hoot and holler all night long.

[3:25:17] they don't care. I'm sorry, I didn't want to -- >> no, you're good. We want to hear from you, that's

[3:25:23] why we put this at the end, so we didn't have to rush through this and hold everybody else up. >> I think here's where walter

[3:25:33] and I disagree vehemently is on the bicycle path. I love it to death, but I disagree with everything he says

[3:25:41] about it, I think the medians will slow the traffic down -- I have breakfast every morning at the purple stage and every

[3:25:56] afternoon, it's a drag strip. By putting those islands in, it's going to slow the traffic down.

[3:26:04] >> that's what they do. >> that will do that. The other thing is, they're putting crosswalks in which we

[3:26:16] don't have now. We have the apartment complex -- the people go over to the doughnut shop -- they have to

[3:26:33] stop the traffic, let the people in the wheelchair go across, if someone will look at where those apartments are and make sure

[3:26:41] there's a pedestrians crossing there, that's going to be a big plus. I'm sorry, like I said, I'm here

[3:26:55] to get criticized for my decisions or ask questions about anything you'd like to ask me about.

[3:27:06] >> I know you got questions. >> this doesn't just pertain to you, typically, we have these conversations in our living

[3:27:16] rooms with our friends, spouses, whomever. Unfortunately, we're expressing our opinions in a public format.

[3:27:28] some opinions are harsh and hard to listen to, I do wish the circumstances were different for everybody.

[3:27:35] >> don't worry, I can take it. You brought up some interesting things here, your one third one third one third, you just

[3:27:51] listened to the budget woes, and I understand the one third concept, but we know we're talking about at least 10

[3:28:01] million. And that number is probably a couple years old, so I'm sure that number's gone up.

[3:28:12] you do that math, 12 million, that's $4 million, the city doesn't have that for paving opinion.

[3:28:26] >> right. I'm not advocating. >> it's just a comment. Blue cove too.

[3:28:44] my understanding of blue cove is, there was a zoning scandal I'm going to use my words and interpretation, kind of a zoning

[3:28:57] scandal that happened around that well one of the previous planning department folks. That will had to get relooked

[3:29:10] at, it was done under the table and this is my understanding, blue cove zoning had to go back to where it was again.

[3:29:25] low density to medium density, unbeknownst to many people. I'm skeptical of the whole blue cove thing, knowing that little

[3:29:38] bit of information. My question for you would be what are you looking to accomplish in a one year sitting

[3:29:47] up here about. >> I guess what I'm trying to accomplish is provide information and background that

[3:29:54] I have and that's it. I'm not going to run again. The next year between the bike path and everything else we're

[3:30:07] doing -- I'm 74 years old. >> I'm not quite there. >> that's all, I think I'm a wealth of knowledge.

[3:30:25] and provide it, you all do what you want to do. I'm not going to be on the council to be very forward.

[3:30:33] that's it. That's all I can offer. >> here's where it's going to get harsh.

[3:30:39] >> that's all right. >> there's skepticism you maybe wan at to get on for some of your development projects.

[3:30:50] and push the zoning changes, I don't know what needs to happen. But I keep hearing -- I've never heard it called blue cove 2

[3:31:01] before, but I know where you're talking about. There's a thought process that you want to get on here to push

[3:31:07] something through, so you can develop that area. >> I can tell you right now, anyone who's worked with me.

[3:31:16] I have never put my interest before this city. Never I put money into the coffers to save the city council

[3:31:30] from goaling ethics complaints. I put the city first, I always have I got the piece of property you're talking about, okay?

[3:31:40] that was to me was vindictive the way they rezoned it. There's a commercial next to that, and they make it low

[3:31:53] density. That's neither here nor there. I could put six houses on that, according to the new comp plan,

[3:32:04] I may do it, I may not do it, I will assure you that I have no projects. That's the only piece, and I own

[3:32:13] the property in front of the mobile home park. I've recused myself every time, and you can ask anyone -- even

[3:32:20] when I didn't have to recuse myself because I don't want there to be any conflict. You can believe what's on the

[3:32:30] screen or. >> no, I'm with you. I understand what you're saying, I purposely do not read the

[3:32:39] newspapers I don't have social media other than email. I don't get into facebook or anything like that, it's too

[3:32:48] distracting for me. I'm not in tune with to the word on the street unless someone's bringing it to me.

[3:33:04] here's something I experienced not personally with you, but was part of the shade shelter, the whole shelter thing at public

[3:33:13] beach I'm going to fast forward, we're looking to put in a shade shelter. I'll save the horror story for

[3:33:27] how we lost $11,000, we got exam -- scammed out of $11,000. That shouldn't have happened. If someone wasn't pushing that

[3:33:39] project so hard, we would have done step a, b, c in order but we did not. That's neither here nor there

[3:33:51] for this conversation with you. After that ah, somehow you and the past mayor, mr. White got together and you offered the

[3:34:02] city buy the material, you would construct the shade shelter [ inaudible ] >> right, the city would supply

[3:34:12] material and you would take care of everything else. But -- the issue we had with that, I'll use me -- the issue I

[3:34:19] had with that is -- it goes against a lot of things. As you know, the liability being a contractor that comes with

[3:34:36] doing business that way it was a noble thing, but we got burned by getting out of process, and now we're going to step back in

[3:34:51] the same pile and get out of process again, all right? Part of my mind was, the liabilities and such, if

[3:34:59] something goes wrong -- my other issue with it was, again, word on the street, chuck dillon has a fit over something, and I can

[3:35:11] relate to that. Myself. And the next thing you know, you walk off, and we're sitting with

[3:35:20] $11,000 worth of material on the ground rotting. >> if you'll let me clarify something, okay?

[3:35:27] the materials were $5,000 or something less. The first you got ripped off on, I went out there, and there was

[3:35:40] a dip in the roof, because the contractor didn't put ties in. >> I'm aware of everything about the old one.

[3:35:49] I went over there and I thought, that's ridiculous. >> here's what I've done in the past.

[3:36:04] I built the city beach bath house. I did the extension on the old library that way.

[3:36:11] I did the extension on -- >> absolutely. >> all I'm staying is, I was going back to --

[3:36:20] >> absolutely, and my career was the same thing, we used to be able to do things like this, no problem.

[3:36:26] as the years went on, all that stuff came to a screeching halt. What my real issue was -- when it all took place.

[3:36:41] I was party -- record requests were made, et cetera, et cetera. So I read the texts that were sent to the public works manager

[3:36:55] from you and they were -- you can tell you were upset. >> incendiary. That's a good one, that's

[3:37:08] perfect. Exactly. And what I'm worried about is -- we wanted to just keep

[3:37:17] everything in process and stay safe, especially since we just got ripped off for $11,000, now we're going to do something on a

[3:37:26] good ole boy method, it's like, we didn't learn a lesson from a week ago. And the past public works leader

[3:37:39] gets humiliated. The only thing he was wanting to do was, follow what we wanted. Stay in process.

[3:37:46] do not get out of process. I was taken aback. Don't get me wrong, I've scorched the earth --

[3:37:59] >> I have no regrets, I'll tell you why, when someone stands up and says things that are not true, things that I didn't say,

[3:38:10] I met with mandy and I met with troy. Things were said in that meeting, that when he got up

[3:38:17] here changed. I'd do it again today. >> okay. >> if I'm not selected because

[3:38:28] of that ah, that's fine. >> my issue is not the incendiary attacks, my worry is, staying in process.

[3:38:42] I cannot cast a stone at you, I've scorched too many earths much. >> I guess all you have to do is

[3:38:50] you have to ask the staff, talk to andrew, I stay in the process, we're doing something that's my goal.

[3:39:00] I want to get there. >> I don't stop any process, that's the problem with dunnellon, the problem with

[3:39:09] dunnellon, they have never stood up and said, this is the right thing to do, and we're going to do it, we're not waiting ten

[3:39:19] years, we're not waiting five years, we're going to give it -- >> we're not having others spend our money.

[3:39:27] and we're in agreement there. Okay. I'm all good. Thank you.

[3:39:34] sorry, wally. >> mayor: I just have two questions. One, and you've mentioned it, I

[3:39:46] think you have a home here in dunnellon, and you have one somewhere around jacksonville, st. Augustine?

[3:39:52] >> flagler beach. >> mayor: how much time do you spend in each one of these? >> when I was on the council, it

[3:40:02] was here. I didn't go to the beach I would go to the beach on the weekend. I'll guarantee you --

[3:40:14] >> I mar you have a house up there -- if you get on the council, you need to focus on the town.

Amended City Council Workshop (added item #4d, #6c & backup to#6a)

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