[0:05] All right. Do you want to Carol, I know

[0:08] that do you want me to read the the

[0:10] article or anything like that or do you

[0:12] want me to

[0:13] >> No, I just call the meeting to order.

[0:14] Okay, I have to I have to look away cuz

[0:16] it's on a different screen than this one

[0:18] that I'm looking at but you call this

[0:20] Wednesday, August 26th, 2026 2:00 p.m.

[0:23] virtual meeting to order.

[0:25] Um

[0:26] And then Peter, do you want to just

[0:29] go to the action items?

[0:32] >> Well, he doesn't have them.

[0:34] >> Oh, okay.

[0:36] That's why I was asking cuz the other

[0:38] day we had the same issue.

[0:40] Okay. All right. Well, then um

[0:42] I I I can do the action item. Uh

[0:44] discussion of possible action

[0:47] regarding whether to obtain independent

[0:49] outside counsel for matters arising out

[0:50] of or pertaining to the June 1st, 2026

[0:53] wire transfer

[0:55] incident. Um

[0:57] So, I Catherine, you had asked for this

[0:59] agenda I this meeting and this agenda

[1:01] item. So, do you want to just explain

[1:03] what it is that

[1:04] >> Yeah. Yes, exactly. So, I sent an email

[1:07] to John

[1:09] and to Charlie and to actually Susan

[1:11] about this.

[1:12] I wanted to adjust before I go into

[1:14] anything. This action item isn't to um

[1:18] to say that I don't think Clifford and

[1:19] Kenny is absolutely capable of giving us

[1:22] counsel.

[1:23] It's really was just about independence

[1:25] in regard to counsel. What kind of

[1:27] brought it up for me honestly was the

[1:29] public records request. I was thinking

[1:30] on perspective of things.

[1:33] I know that I believe John provided

[1:36] um Katie with the town clerk with

[1:40] you know, advice on what should and

[1:42] shouldn't be released

[1:44] based also off of what we thought. Uh I

[1:47] was just more thinking of what would the

[1:49] perception be on that. Um

[1:51] maybe we could use independent counsel

[1:54] in regard to any issues

[1:56] involving the

[1:58] wire transfer and

[2:01] I kind of like took a step back and I

[2:03] reached out to Susanna as well cuz she's

[2:05] doing the investigation. I asked her

[2:06] opinion on it. She said I don't think it

[2:08] would be a bad thing to have independent

[2:10] counsel just for

[2:12] you know any matters we discuss in

[2:15] regard to the wire transfer just because

[2:18] of the involvement that's done by all

[2:20] the parties

[2:22] for the wire transfer just in a matter

[2:24] of independence. I wanted to bring it to

[2:26] you guys for discussion, get your points

[2:28] of view, what you think and just have a

[2:30] conversation and and see what you guys

[2:33] thought on it.

[2:35] Obviously we got to consider cost and I

[2:37] don't have all the answers to everything

[2:39] but I wanted to kind of bounce it off of

[2:40] you guys and see what you thought.

[2:43] >> Okay, well I have thoughts but Peter do

[2:45] you want to go first or do you want me

[2:47] to go first?

[2:47] >> You can go, that's fine.

[2:49] >> Okay,

[2:50] couple things.

[2:52] I guess my my initial thought is

[2:54] um

[2:55] giving an opinion on a freedom of

[2:57] information request has nothing to do

[2:59] with what the actual request is about.

[3:02] So I don't see that them and and from

[3:04] what I understand Carol, am I allowed to

[3:07] say what that request was and

[3:09] >> Yeah, it's a public any public document,

[3:11] any public record is

[3:12] >> Okay, I wasn't sure at this point. So

[3:14] the request was

[3:17] Okay, so the request was for emails and

[3:19] things pertaining to the wire transfer

[3:21] incident we'll call it

[3:23] and we said no and then the person

[3:26] appealed to the attorney general and the

[3:28] attorney general came back and the way I

[3:30] read it was

[3:31] >> Carol, just so you

[3:32] it's a secretary of state's office.

[3:33] >> Thank you. Sorry, yeah secretary of

[3:35] state. And the way I read that was they

[3:38] didn't say that we couldn't tell them

[3:40] they couldn't have them. They said we

[3:41] didn't provide sufficient reason for why

[3:44] we didn't provide the documents they

[3:46] requested and that our town council

[3:48] should then go back and provide

[3:50] sufficient reasons why not just a a sort

[3:54] of generic statement of this is an

[3:55] investigation so we can't.

[3:57] I don't see an issue personally with

[4:00] Clifford and Kenny doing that. Um my

[4:03] understanding is their freedom of

[4:04] information or what request person isn't

[4:07] John Clifford, it's somebody else

[4:09] in the office and I just So so that's my

[4:12] first thing is that I I don't see it as

[4:14] a conflict of interest for them to weigh

[4:15] in on a legal opinion that would be the

[4:18] opinion no matter what the request is

[4:19] about. The other is the money that it

[4:22] would involve if we have to hire outside

[4:24] counsel on this. We've already agreed to

[4:26] spend over $10,000 on an investigation.

[4:29] Then if we spend even more, then that's

[4:31] more, you know, hopefully we're going to

[4:33] recoup some of recoup some of this from

[4:36] insurance, but we're not going to be

[4:37] able to recoup this from insurance, I

[4:39] wouldn't think. So I So I hesitate with

[4:41] that. Um unless we can sue for pain and

[4:43] suffering, I don't know.

[4:47] So So I think there's that to consider

[4:49] as well and then the other thing which I

[4:51] think might even be put us more in a

[4:54] difficult position is the time frame

[4:56] because we only have I think 10 days to

[4:59] respond to this request. We don't have

[5:02] another like

[5:03] lawyer law firm lined up ready to help

[5:06] us. I mean, Kopelman and Page covers a

[5:08] lot of cities and towns, but we're not a

[5:09] client of theirs. So

[5:11] I know from work experience that, you

[5:14] know,

[5:15] you're going to be in a a queue with

[5:16] them. They're going to drop everything

[5:18] to respond to something, you know, just

[5:19] because it's our situation and we're not

[5:21] a client of theirs. So that's my other

[5:24] >> Yeah.

[5:24] >> That's my other caveat, I guess.

[5:26] >> Yeah, so I was thinking more so um

[5:30] not even just granted this is definitely

[5:32] the reason why the the um

[5:34] this

[5:35] the public records request is definitely

[5:37] the reason why it spawned on me just cuz

[5:39] I was thinking about um keep maintaining

[5:42] independence, but I was more thinking

[5:44] any matters also going forward um if

[5:47] there were any other legal issues going

[5:49] forward with this. Um,

[5:51] and so that was it just not not just

[5:53] have legal counsel just for this, but

[5:55] maybe going forward with any matter

[5:56] pertaining to this issue. So, um,

[5:59] just because I know obviously, you know,

[6:01] they're able to give independent counsel

[6:03] advice, but I was more thinking of just

[6:05] the perception. But, I completely

[6:06] understand um, your all of your points.

[6:09] I just wanted to just clarify not just

[6:11] for having them for this matter, but for

[6:13] future events going forward.

[6:15] >> Okay.

[6:16] Um, Peter, you ready?

[6:18] >> Yeah, yeah, sure. Uh, so I agree, uh,

[6:21] Carol. I think that your points are

[6:22] valid, uh, you know, this is a situation

[6:25] that, you know, we we've taken the steps

[6:27] necessary with the, um, with the counsel

[6:30] that we've brought in to do the review

[6:33] of what happened, you know, how it

[6:35] happened, why it happened, and then, you

[6:37] know, giving us information on how we

[6:39] can prevent in the future. So, that's

[6:41] obviously independent, uh, counsel. As

[6:43] far as, you know, as far as the

[6:45] information, uh, act and and sending out

[6:47] this information, I mean, we're in an

[6:49] active, um, you know, investigation

[6:52] right now. There's there's no doubt. And

[6:53] I think once this information is brought

[6:55] out, it will be very clear to the

[6:58] citizens of East Bridgewater that, you

[7:00] know, what happened. And then and then,

[7:03] uh, you know, they can see what was

[7:05] potentially recovered if there's any

[7:07] recovery of this, uh,

[7:09] of this situation. So,

[7:11] you know,

[7:12] I don't think there's going to be much

[7:13] more than and then anyone else any other

[7:15] law firm could could do at this point

[7:17] other than to give us advice as Clifford

[7:20] & Kenny has that, you know, this is the

[7:21] information that we're we're we're

[7:23] holding on to in in investigation.

[7:26] Again, I'm on the phone as I'm sure you

[7:28] guys are with, uh, the police station

[7:31] and and the people that are involved in

[7:32] this case. Uh, I know, you know, that

[7:34] they're continuing to to act on stuff,

[7:37] working with other departments outside

[7:38] of East Bridgewater to handle this. And,

[7:41] you know, I got all the confidence in

[7:42] the world that you know, once this

[7:43] information is is readily available in

[7:46] this

[7:47] investigations is is shut down. Um

[7:51] you know, they're going to see the same

[7:52] thing that we're seeing.

[7:54] What happened, how it happened and and

[7:56] you know, what we're going to do about

[7:56] it in the future. So, yeah, I mean to me

[7:59] it's you know, we're following the same

[8:00] protocols we always have with any any

[8:03] body that comes in for any information

[8:05] that's public information. You know, we

[8:07] we'll certainly send it out in in due

[8:09] time. We're not hiding anything. We're

[8:11] just trying to get get back or recover

[8:14] what we possibly can without you know,

[8:17] with the timing that it is necessary.

[8:18] So, I agree with you. I don't think it's

[8:20] you know, I don't think it's necessary

[8:21] to go over this if again

[8:23] we reiterate this, you know, what I

[8:25] thought was necessary was to bring in

[8:27] outside counsel to talk about you know,

[8:29] what had happened and investigate that

[8:30] portion which is being done outside of

[8:33] Clifford and Kenny and to me that was a great move. It was one that

[8:38] needed to happen and other than that I

[8:40] think we're you know, we're we're just

[8:41] going to follow the lead of what we've

[8:42] always done as far as public information

[8:44] goes.

[8:46] >> Okay. Okay.

[8:47] Catherine, are you good with I mean we

[8:49] could we could

[8:50] >> Oh, no, no, I'm good with Okay. No, I'm

[8:53] good with what your responses are. I was

[8:54] just thinking of my like

[8:56] genuinely it was the FOIA request yeah,

[9:00] the response to it yes is what kind of

[9:02] tracked it but I was more thinking

[9:05] just going forward with any kind of

[9:07] legal issues with this wire transfer

[9:10] going forward cuz I know that there's

[9:12] certain aspects that Suzanne can cover

[9:14] and certain ones just because she's not

[9:16] counsel to be able to cover. So,

[9:19] for example, I know Clifford and Kenny

[9:20] specifically handled this matter.

[9:23] So, that's really what it was, but I

[9:25] appreciate both of your perspectives on

[9:27] it. I understand

[9:28] it completely. So, I just I just really

[9:30] wanted to get you guys' thoughts if you

[9:32] thought you know, maintaining or getting

[9:35] outside counsel would be something to

[9:36] think about in regard an independent

[9:38] counsel in regard to this. I definitely

[9:39] don't think that I 100% believe that

[9:42] Clifford and Kenny is are capable at

[9:44] reviewing

[9:46] any legal requests. That's not, you

[9:48] know, up for debate for me whatsoever.

[9:50] Obviously the work and I want to

[9:51] emphasize I appreciate their work for

[9:53] the town, but it was really for me just

[9:56] voting having independence in counsel

[9:59] in regard to

[10:01] this this specific event, whether it be

[10:03] FOIA, anything else that comes up. I

[10:05] don't know what else is going to come

[10:06] up. We'll see, but that was really just

[10:09] my perspective. But I appreciate both of

[10:10] you guys and I really just wanted to

[10:12] have this conversation and see what you

[10:14] guys thought.

[10:15] >> Yeah, and it's and it, you know, it

[10:17] doesn't mean if something comes up again

[10:18] that we can't revisit it. If we're like,

[10:19] oh, now it's now it's this. I can't

[10:21] think what that could be, but if it was

[10:22] something then we can always revisit it.

[10:25] And it is good and I think it also like

[10:28] shows to the point and I don't know if

[10:29] people realize this cuz I said it to

[10:31] someone recently and they looked at me

[10:32] like I was crazy. The three of us can't

[10:34] talk to each other outside of a meeting.

[10:36] >> Yeah, so that was

[10:38] >> of open meeting law. So that's why a

[10:40] meeting like this matters, right? People

[10:42] can see that we talked about this and

[10:44] that we each shared our opinion and, you

[10:46] know, and then we move on from it

[10:48] because we're not talking about this.

[10:50] I'm not calling you on a Sunday night

[10:51] and saying, "Hey, what do you think

[10:52] about this?"

[10:53] >> Yeah, that's that's kind of really where

[10:55] like honestly my best my biggest things

[10:58] are is like it's our first time

[11:00] obviously all of us going through this.

[11:01] We're all going to have different ideas

[11:02] on how we can approach different matters

[11:04] to this, but you know, these are

[11:06] discussions that we are having actively

[11:07] cuz it's the first time for all of us

[11:09] going through this. So I appreciate

[11:12] I know. I appreciate you guys, you know,

[11:14] being able to meet. I know it's two of

[11:16] it's our lunch hour on uh and it's we're

[11:19] halfway through the week, but I just

[11:21] want to I say I appreciate you guys. I

[11:23] understand your perspective

[11:25] and thank you for having the

[11:26] conversation.

[11:28] >> Good. And we do just have since we had

[11:29] this meeting, we do have one action

[11:31] item.

[11:32] Um

[11:33] Catherine, do you want to make that

[11:34] motion to to have that in front of you?

[11:36] >> Second that motion.

[11:38] >> Peter, do you have it now?

[11:41] >> I can do it. I think you could Okay, I

[11:43] was going to say if you can do it I have

[11:45] it on my I think you might not be able

[11:46] to see me if I pull it up cuz I'm on my

[11:48] phone.

[11:49] >> Yeah.

[11:50] I make a motion to

[11:52] issue a permit for Michelle Lassard to

[11:54] hold a Pilates class on Sunday, August

[11:56] 30th from 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. on the

[11:58] town common.

[12:00] >> One second.

[12:01] >> Right, motion's made and seconded. Any

[12:02] discussion?

[12:04] All in favor?

[12:05] >> Aye.

[12:06] >> Great. Sounds like a a nice way to start

[12:08] a Sunday.

[12:15] All right.

[12:16] >> I'll make a motion to adjourn.

[12:18] >> Very good.

[12:19] >> Second.

[12:21] >> All in favor?

[12:22] >> Aye.

[12:23] Great.

[12:23] >> Thank you.

[12:24] everybody. Have a good day.

[12:25] >> Thank you guys. Bye.

[12:26] >> Thank you.

[12:26] >> Bye.

East Bridgewater Select Board Meeting 8 26 26

Transcript