[0:07] At this time, we'll call the August 17, 2026 meeting of the East Enfield

[0:12] Township Zoning Board to order. Members of the board who are present this

[0:16] evening are Mr. Loose, Mr. Kalis, and myself, Mark Hansen, chairman of the

[0:21] board. Also, for the record, we have Mr. commands our zoning officer to the

[0:26] township and our legal counsel attorney Jason Hes as well. We also have a court

[0:31] reporter with us. Scheduled for this evening are two new cases and any old

[0:36] business that may become may come before us this evening. The board will hear

[0:41] each case in an informal manner without strict compliance with the rules and

[0:45] procedure used in a court trial. We ask each applicant and any individual

[0:51] interested in a case to step in front of our table and explain the circumstances

[0:55] involved in their application. Applicants may present their case

[1:00] themselves through their attorneys or any other representatives.

[1:04] My fellow board members and I, as well as our solicitor, may ask the applicant

[1:09] questions from time to time during the applicant's presentation or at its

[1:13] conclusion. All persons having interest in the

[1:17] application will be given the opportunity to ask questions of the

[1:21] applicant, offer evidence of their own, and inform the board of their position

[1:25] on the matter. In the interest of prompt and orderly disposition of each case,

[1:31] however, we ask that interested people refrain from speaking until the

[1:36] applicant's presentation has been completed

[1:41] and the board has had an opportunity to question the applicant. At the beginning

[1:45] of each case, people are interested in the case should decide whether they

[1:49] desire to be a party to it. By given the status of a party, that person will be

[1:56] entitled to receive notice of the decision in the case and be entitled to

[2:00] participate in any subsequent appeal or rehearing.

[2:06] Individuals who are not given party status may nevertheless ask questions or

[2:12] present evidence but will not receive notice of the decision or will not

[2:16] automatically be entitled to participate in any appeal or subsequent reharing.

[2:23] If you desire to be a party, we ask that you sign an entry of appearance form at

[2:27] the appropriate time. Although each party will see receive a written copy of

[2:32] the decision, the mechanics to type in the signed decision will take

[2:35] approximately four weeks. We ask that each person who ask a question or makes

[2:40] a statement first state his or her name and address for a court reporter.

[2:46] Lastly, in the interest of time, I will minister the oath or affirmation to all

[2:51] applicants and to everyone and anyone who anticipates making any statement

[2:57] with respect to any of the hearings this evening. At this time, will you all

[3:02] please rise?

[3:06] Under penalties of perjury, you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to

[3:11] give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. If so, please

[3:16] say I do. Please remain standing. We'll salute the

[3:20] flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

[3:26] United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation

[3:31] under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[3:38] Again,

[3:41] just to let everybody know, this meeting is also in Zoom. So, if you wish to make

[3:45] a statement or offer testimony, please use one of the microphones so that you

[3:51] can be heard on Zoom, as well as to make sure our court reporter can hear you,

[3:57] Jeremy. Have the cases this evening been posted and advertised in accordance with

[4:01] the Sunshine Law and the ordinance? >> They have.

[4:04] Um, gentlemen, because we we have a quorum. However, because Mr. Loose will

[4:11] abstain from voting for the minutes because he was not here, we'll skip

[4:16] approving the minutes this month. We'll do it next month.

[4:21] Jeremy, any old business? >> No.

[4:26] » Jeremy, will you call the first new case?

[4:29] Case number 25000, Eric Wardrop and Tasha Plunkett, 135

[4:34] Wood Road, seeking a modification of conditions, requesting a variance to

[4:38] allow an accessory farm worker apartment and the timing requirements to act on

[4:42] the zoning hears decision. >> Mr. Yod, are you the representative?

[4:53] » If you would please.

[5:11] Uh good evening members of the board. Dwight Yoder here on behalf of the

[5:14] applicant. Um attorney Gibble Craven Hess. Uh with me is Eric Wardrop. He uh

[5:20] is one of the uh equitable owners of the property that's at issue. The board's

[5:25] familiar with this application because part of the relief we're requesting is

[5:29] to essentially reinstate a decision that expired allowing a farm dwelling on the

[5:35] property located at 237 Root Road. Uh it involves about 37 12 acres of land that

[5:44] they intend to use for um their horse operation, a riding ring, and then they

[5:51] will also have a house that they live on. Um,

[5:54] » can I interrupt you for one second? >> Absolutely.

[5:56] » I'm sorry. Is there anyone that wishes to be a party to this case?

[6:02] » All right. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Okay. That's all right. Um, so the first

[6:06] request that we have is to essentially grant uh a modification of a prior

[6:14] condition that was imposed when the property was subdivided um to allow a

[6:20] farm dwelling on the property. Uh the reason that expired was there was a

[6:26] little bit of an unexpected twist. When you're going up Root Road, uh the corner

[6:31] of this property on the south side, there is a little um auto shop there and

[6:39] they had been using part of this property for a long time to park their

[6:44] cars. Long story short, there was a need to do a a lot line adjustment to clean

[6:50] to clean it up and so that has made its way through. I think the supervisors are

[6:56] going to be reviewing that at their next meeting. What that meant though was the

[7:01] property couldn't be conveyed and we couldn't get through the land

[7:04] development on this for a little bit longer than we anticipated. So, that's

[7:09] the reason for that delay. Uh, which is why we're back. Um the additional

[7:15] request deals with a farm worker apartment. Eric will testify that uh due

[7:22] to the nature of this horse operation uh the level of care that's required for

[7:27] horses, they really need somebody living on site to care for the animals. And um

[7:34] this would not be anything but for farm workers and it would be limited to that.

[7:40] Um, so we're asking for a a variance to allow for an accessory use that would

[7:48] involve a farm workers apartment. Frankly, some townships recognize um an

[7:55] accessory use for farm workers, but the zoning ordinance, as it's written for

[7:59] East Hempfield, doesn't have that. So, that's the second request. And then the

[8:03] final request is to avoid coming back maybe a third time, extend the time for

[8:09] that land development for an additional year to give them adequate time to get

[8:13] through the process. So Eric will be my only witness. We'll run through some

[8:16] questions and then we're happy to answer any questions the the board may have.

[8:20] » Okay. Um the lot add-on I believe is being addressed this

[8:27] Wednesday night. Is that correct? >> That's correct.

[8:29] » Okay. >> Yep.

[8:32] Good. >> All right. Uh, Eric, if you just want to

[8:34] speak there. Um, can you just state your name for the record?

[8:37] » Eric Wardrop. Last name is spelled W A R D R O P.

[8:42] » And are you and your wife the acriable owner of the property that's the subject

[8:46] of this application? >> Yes.

[8:48] » And you have it under agreement from the criers. Correct.

[8:51] » Correct. Um, and we don't have to go through that, but um, was the uh,

[8:57] consent for this application included as part of the application?

[9:02] » Yes. >> Okay. If you look at what's up on the

[9:05] uh, screen here, and it was exhibit one to our application, is that just an

[9:10] aerial showing the property that uh, you have under agreement?

[9:14] » Correct. >> And is it approximately 37 12 acres?

[9:18] Once the lot add-on is complete, it'll be roughly 37 and a half.

[9:22] » Okay. And is the property used now entirely for growing and harvesting

[9:26] crops? >> Uh, it is.

[9:28] » It was subdivided in 1996. Is that correct?

[9:32] » Yes. >> And this property was known as lot four.

[9:35] And was there a condition on the subdivision plan that basically said no

[9:40] dwelling could be constructed on this lot?

[9:42] » Correct. Uh, and then back in 2023, as you heard in my opening, did you go and

[9:49] seek approval from the zoning hearing board to modify that condition through a

[9:55] variance to allow a farm dwelling to be constructed?

[9:59] » Yes. >> And will that facilitate your ability to

[10:02] um use this for a riding ring and your horse operation?

[10:07] » Yes. Um, and as you heard in my opening, that prior zoning approval expired

[10:14] because of this little glitch related to dealing with this slot add-on. Correct.

[10:20] » Yes. >> Okay. Um, is it your understanding that

[10:24] your engineer has the land development plans for your property essentially

[10:30] ready to go once the lot add-on is approved?

[10:33] » Yes. >> Okay. So, let me ask you some questions

[10:36] about how you want to use the property. Can you just describe for the board what

[10:42] your intentions are in terms of um the horse operation?

[10:47] » Yeah. So, this would consist of a uh 16 stall horse barn um with a an indoor

[10:54] riding arena and an equipment um bar or equipment garage uh with the intention

[11:01] of putting uh the apartment above the garage building.

[11:06] » And can you provide to the board a little bit of you and your wife's

[11:10] experience and background in this type of horse operation?

[11:14] » Excuse me. >> Yes. Um, can you put the plan up there

[11:18] for >> Oh, yeah. Exhibit six.

[11:20] » And please show us on the overall plan where this I wasn't sure where it was

[11:26] going. I thought it was going above the horse barn, but

[11:28] » that one so we can Yeah. Yeah. There you go.

[11:35] » Yep. That's my one. >> There you go.

[11:37] » You can blow that up a little bit.

[11:43] See how to do this >> using the pointer. Can you show us where

[11:47] the dwelling? >> This is the This is the barn.

[11:51] » Okay. >> Um there's like an open covered walkway

[11:55] right here that goes into the uh indoor arena. This is storage on the end of the

[12:01] arena. And then this is the equipment garage with manure storage here. So, the

[12:07] intention is to have the apartment uh above this structure here.

[12:13] » Okay. >> And that just laid out better than than

[12:18] putting it putting it in the barn itself.

[12:22] » Eric, can you describe the type of horses that will be on the property and

[12:27] the type of care that are required for them?

[12:30] » Yeah, my my wife has been in the horse business for as a professional for

[12:35] almost 15 years. She's been riding horses since she's four years old. She's

[12:39] 44 years old now. Um, this is a what you would call a show barn. So, these are

[12:46] what what in the in the world of hunter jumper horses. These horses are um very

[12:52] expensive horses that require uh almost I mean everyday care. So that's

[12:57] obviously the purpose of of having a person on on the property at all times

[13:02] um you know even throughout the night just in case a lot of horses have health

[13:08] issues that need to be taken care of and monitored um at kind of all hours. So

[13:13] it's it's pretty imperative for the level of care um that my my wife's uh

[13:19] business operates under to have someone on on site at all at all times. You and

[13:25] your wife would be living in a farm dwelling as well, but you're not always

[13:30] available. Correct. >> No, my wife, as part of her business,

[13:33] she does travel a lot um and does a lot of away horse shows um in the winter.

[13:40] She moves a lot of the horses down south. We also have a facility not as

[13:45] large as this one in Okala, Florida that we we operate during the winter months.

[13:50] Um so she's back and forth. So, it's important that we have a um we we call

[13:56] it a barn essentially a barn manager that oversees um the care care of the

[14:01] horses on a daily basis. >> Do you currently have a barn manager

[14:05] that would be living on this dwelling if it's approved?

[14:08] » We do. >> And who is that?

[14:11] » Um her name is Katie Dukeman. Uh she's worked for my wife now probably six or

[14:16] seven years. >> Okay. Um, and

[14:20] would this accessory farm uh worker apartment be limited to people living

[14:27] there that are working on the farm? >> Yes. I have no intention of using it as

[14:32] a a rental. This is purely for and it's it's something that we would provide the

[14:37] barn manager as part of their compensation would they would receive

[14:42] essentially free housing. Um, and just so the record's clear, you wouldn't use

[14:47] it for a short-term rental. Correct. >> Correct.

[14:50] » You wouldn't use it for people that are coming to visit with their horses or

[14:56] ride to live there. It would only be for workers. Uh, in this case, your barn

[15:01] manager, >> correct?

[15:02] » Okay. Um, and in your opinion, based on the nature of

[15:08] this horse operation, would it create a hardship if you

[15:13] weren't able to accommodate a farm manager on the property?

[15:18] » It it would make it very difficult. Yes. Um, and due to the nature of the care

[15:24] that the horses require, is having somebody there pretty much

[15:30] around the clock essential to be sure that they can be cared for in a timely

[15:36] manner? >> Yes.

[15:39] » If we could go to the last exhibit, I think exhibit seven of the apartment

[15:43] plan, just to give the board a sense of what the apartment might look like. Uh

[15:52] there we go. Yeah. Um I know you're still working on a land development plan

[15:58] and you may not have finalized your building plans, but as part of the

[16:03] application, did you provide me with a a kind of preliminary floor plan of what

[16:10] the apartment might look like? >> Yes.

[16:12] » Um and this would be above the You referred to it as the storage garage.

[16:18] » Yes. Okay. Um, and would this provide uh immediate access based on its location

[16:26] to the horses if there was if there was a need?

[16:29] » Yeah, it's directly across the driveway. >> Okay.

[16:32] » And I think just referencing this arena wall up here. This is a plan that came

[16:36] from an iteration that we decided to move it out of the barn and the indoor.

[16:42] So this is obviously still referencing that, but this would be the same layout

[16:47] that we would intend to capture. It's just, you know, this is roughly, I

[16:51] think, 750 square feet. And just to be clear, um, if for some

[16:58] reason in the future the horse operation is long no longer there, would you agree

[17:04] that this would still be reserved just for farm workers if there was some other

[17:08] egg use? But uh if in fact there was no need for a farm worker, the apartment

[17:14] really couldn't be used for anything else.

[17:17] » Yes. >> Okay. Um

[17:22] let me just go through a few of the requirements for variance. Would you

[17:26] agree um that if the board approves this farm worker apartment as an accessory

[17:34] use that it would allow for the reasonable use of the property as a

[17:38] riding stable? >> Yes.

[17:40] » And would you agree that allowing a farm manager to have an apartment on the

[17:47] property would not uh adversely impact adjoining property owners?

[17:53] » I would agree. Uh, and would you agree it wouldn't alter the character of the a

[17:58] use of the property? >> I would agree.

[18:00] » And um having one apartment, would you agree that's the minimum relief

[18:06] necessary to allow somebody to be there um on a full-time basis?

[18:11] » Yes. >> U and just to um to reiterate again, it

[18:16] would not be rented to any third parties or as a short-term rental.

[18:19] » It would not. >> Okay. And then the the final questions

[18:22] just deal with the extension of time. Again, in my intro, I explained that

[18:27] there was a delay because of the lot add-on. You're requesting for an

[18:31] additional year to for a total of two years to submit the land development

[18:36] plans. Correct. >> Correct. I don't think I'll need it, but

[18:40] would rather not come back here a third time.

[18:42] » Uh and again, you anticipate that you should be able to get those submitted

[18:46] this fall as soon as the other plan is approved.

[18:49] » Correct. Um, all right. Those are all the questions that I have for Eric. We'd

[18:54] welcome any questions from board members.

[18:58] » Um, I have a question. Uh, how many workers total will be required for the

[19:04] 16 horses that you have there? um total is probably somewhere in the seven to

[19:11] eight range, but they there's there's a daytime kind of barn manager that would

[19:19] be able to come during the day and then leave. And then you'd have your kind of

[19:23] your overall manager, which is the intended for this apartment. And then

[19:26] you're going to have various different folks that um my wife hires a lot of uh

[19:32] girls that are in the horse world. Um, so they they they range between, I would

[19:38] say, at any given time, seven to nine different employees. Two employees

[19:44] usually work morning shift. Two employees work night shift.

[19:48] » Eric, let me just follow up on that. The floor plan shows three beds, three

[19:52] bedrooms. And I think maybe the question was, [clears throat] you talked about

[19:56] one uh farm manager. Would there potentially be two other farm workers

[20:03] that would stay or is is that for the farm workers family or how do you

[20:08] envision the three bedrooms? >> I think it could be for the farm

[20:11] manager's family. Um, you know, the current farm manager that we have does

[20:16] not have any children. Um, I think there's also a lot of situations that

[20:22] require additional people to potentially be there um throughout the day. you

[20:28] know, overnight when we had snow last year, we had to put people up on air

[20:33] mattresses in in the barn um because there was we were concerned that they

[20:38] couldn't get there. Um I mean the the purpose of the apartment is the and the

[20:44] layout's not finalized yet. This is just an you know an option for us. Um but the

[20:50] the purpose is for for the barn manager specific. Um could could another worker

[20:56] stay there potentially, you know, on occasion? Sure. But it's the the

[21:01] intention is not to um use this for any other uh reason other than than the B

[21:07] manager and the care of the horses.

[21:13] » That's when when you say you go back and forth to Florida, does the bar manager

[21:17] go with you? >> No, she stays.

[21:19] » She's permanently there. >> She stays. We take another employee down

[21:23] for and and our property in Ocala has an apartment um in the barn so that's where

[21:29] she stays when she comes down. So similar setup just a little bit smaller

[21:33] facility. >> Okay.

[21:39] » Couple questions for you. Um

[21:43] you're asking for a variance of section 270 um-5.2

[21:49] to FFF. What I'm curious of, are you asking for

[21:54] a variance to the whole section or a specific part of that?

[22:02] » Give me one second. 270- >> 5.2

[22:08] FF

[22:26] 5.2 F. Oh, triple F. Not >> triple F.

[22:30] » Keep flipping it way back. >> What's that?

[22:33] » It's way back there in the ordinance. >> I see that. Okay.

[22:36] To the triple Fs.

[22:46] So this is to the first request for the single family dwelling,

[22:49] » right? >> Um

[22:54] I think this is related to and this goes back to your prior decision where you

[22:58] cited this section. So, the request is for a modification of the prior

[23:03] condition, but it does say that I think it's to subsection

[23:09] um C. Uh

[23:16] well, actually, they would be they would have a right because it's more than 20

[23:22] acres to have a single family dwelling on the property. So

[23:28] technically I think it's it's a modification of the prior condition.

[23:33] » Okay. >> Um but uh I think we just added this

[23:37] section because of that's how the prior decision was written. I don't have

[23:41] » I think that and I think that this was I mean that this was more or less the same

[23:48] and um in the previous ordinance but I think that um the the your prior

[23:57] subdivision was in 1996 and this ordinance refers to every 20 acres or a

[24:03] fraction of there of contiguous land and single and separate ownership as of the

[24:07] effective date of the zoning ordinance which was 1994. for. So I think that

[24:11] when you got the subdivision in 1996 that exhausted your subdivision rights

[24:15] under this section in in addition to the and uh so in addition to the condition

[24:21] that was placed on there, you still do need a variance from this section

[24:26] because of the subdivision rights being exhausted.

[24:29] » So is from the whole section or just a specific section of that?

[24:40] I think it could be subsection D maybe that just allows this to

[24:49] um so it says regardless of size no track

[24:53] of land subsequently subdivided from its parent track shall qualify for

[24:56] additional >> yeah I would agree D would probably be

[25:00] the and it also refers to A and C as well

[25:05] So, I'm sorry. E >> D.

[25:09] » Yeah. >> Okay.

[25:11] » Not FF. >> Well, section FF

[25:15] » D. >> Okay.

[25:17] » Um section 270-5.2A

[25:25] is the um specific use regulations for an accessory dwelling unit.

[25:32] Uh once you have that let me know. >> Okay.

[25:37] » So [clears throat]

[25:42] three says the accessory dwelling unit should not exceed 40% of the total

[25:48] square footage of the primary set or um structure.

[25:54] How big is this garage or whatever you're putting though? Because I'm

[25:58] looking at what you have up there originally.

[26:02] If that's 720 square feet, I don't think it's going to fit over

[26:07] that what you have shown on the >> Yeah. So, I would just note that the

[26:14] accessory dwelling unit is for I think limited to family members, an ADU. Uh,

[26:21] and it's typically based on the size of the house that you can, which I'm sure

[26:26] the board's familiar with it. >> It is, but the reason I'm asking about

[26:30] the garage because the accessory dwelling unit is going to be right

[26:34] » part of this garage. So, as long as it doesn't exceed 40% of that garage space,

[26:41] you wouldn't need to do anything. But if it's going to exceed 40%.

[26:45] Because it looks like it would take up the whole top four,

[26:48] » right? um you happen to know will the garage

[26:53] have is this the entire second floor of the garage or is the garage have some

[26:59] additional floor space that uh would be built? I don't know if you can bring up

[27:05] that. >> So the it it would not be the entire top

[27:08] of the garage. So if you pull that plan back up

[27:12] » Y >> and I think the the the submission

[27:15] that's been updated um will show a more you know again we're

[27:22] this from a storm water management standpoint we're just trying to get the

[27:26] the sizes of these buildings down. Um but that right there that garage it it's

[27:33] going to be roughly four garage doors. >> Okay. So, this is probably still showing

[27:38] a little bit smaller than what it will actually be. So, um the apartment, if

[27:43] this was to scale, the apartment's only going to come to like here.

[27:47] » Okay. >> It would actually come to here because

[27:50] we're trying to stay away from this over here.

[27:52] » I would hope. >> Yeah.

[27:55] » I just want to make sure that >> we don't have to come back here and say,

[27:58] "Hey, it's going to be more than 40% now. We need a variance to that."

[28:01] » Yeah. I mean, I think the question would be if the board's viewing this as an

[28:05] accessory dwelling unit and we're seeking a variance for the limitation on

[28:09] family members because I looked at the definition for accessory dwelling unit.

[28:13] Um, we asked for a variance to allow a farmworker apartment uh as an accessory

[28:20] use to the egg use. Uh, but to the extent the board is viewing this as an

[28:25] accessory dwelling unit, um, do you think you're going to be 40% or less of

[28:30] the garage? >> So, you're saying the the floor plate of

[28:34] the garage, let's just say it's 1,000 square feet. The apartment then could be

[28:39] 400 square feet. >> Yeah, correct.

[28:41] » Unless you ask for a variance to that. >> I mean, I would

[28:48] » might be a little small. >> It might be a little small. I mean, I I

[28:51] don't have an answer sitting here if it's going to be over 40 or not. Um, I

[28:56] mean, if I had my choice, I would say not to limit it to that just in case we

[29:01] run into whatever maybe stair staircases, things

[29:05] like that that are going to take up square footage that would ultimately go

[29:09] against that 40%. Okay.

[29:12] um number 11 under the same section,

[29:20] » right? >> I think he would need be. I have some

[29:24] suggested changes here that you might want. Um and then also number 12.

[29:32] » Yeah. So again, um the application wasn't really submitted as an accessory

[29:38] dwelling unit, but we certainly if the board is more comfortable

[29:43] uh with that approach, we don't we don't have any opposition to that, we would

[29:47] probably need to amend the request to ask for

[29:52] um variances to the 40% and the family members uh provision

[29:59] um and to the extent that you want the property owner to record something to be

[30:06] sure that future property owners are aware that it's limited. I don't think

[30:10] you'd have a problem with that. >> And [clears throat] that's what I'm

[30:15] basically headed to. >> It actually makes some sense to me to to

[30:18] maybe approach it that way. So, I mean, if that feels like the right approach,

[30:25] we would just make a motion to amend the request for a variance to include 270-

[30:34] 52A

[30:38] 3 to allow the apartment to potentially exceed 40%.

[30:45] And 11 to allow farm workers

[30:51] to reside there and not limit it to family members.

[30:57] And uh I think those would be the only two. You'll have at least one parking

[31:02] space for the farm manager. >> Yeah.

[31:05] » Okay. >> Um we'll get to your request for

[31:09] amending here in a second. um

[31:16] for the time extension because the board will be considering this in two days on

[31:21] Wednesday night. If they approve that, do you still need an additional year on

[31:29] top of the year you're permitted? >> Well, um

[31:35] probably not. >> Okay. But I think just based on how

[31:39] things went last time, we would at least maybe request six months if the board's

[31:45] inclined to give us a little cushion to have enough time. While the land

[31:51] development plans have been prepared, there's storm water management. There's

[31:55] unlaw septic. There's still some complexities that can take longer than

[32:00] you anticipate. >> Okay.

[32:02] » Eric, if you >> I mean, a lot of that Sorry. a lot of

[32:06] that work is done. Um or it's it's at a it's 75 85% complete. Um maybe I ask a

[32:14] question. When when does that clock stop? Is that at a stormwater management

[32:19] approval or when when what when does that year when does that stop?

[32:26] So, my understanding, I'll have our

[32:30] solicitor correct me here if I'm wrong, which I'm probably going to be, but um

[32:36] once you get all your zoning permits

[32:41] and once you start the land development process, I believe there's a fiveyear

[32:46] grace period. Is that correct with the MPC?

[32:53] Um I don't know because there there's also

[32:58] a requirement in for um I think for construction as well. I I I thought

[33:06] » this uh this is Nate the planning director.

[33:11] Uh so for the timing from the the zoning hearing board approval through land

[33:16] development approval would be the recording date and then once they record

[33:20] the plans they are protected from a zoning perspective for five years.

[33:26] » So the once we record the storm water management plan is that what you're

[33:32] saying? Well, it would it would be the the recording of the land development

[33:37] plan, which would only be recorded if you have the storm water management

[33:41] plans approved. I I think to answer the chairman's question, when I look at uh

[33:47] 270-9.1

[33:52] D or D3E,

[33:57] it says for zoning hearing board approvals which are required as part of

[34:01] the subdivision and land development process,

[34:04] um the above stated time restrictions do

[34:08] not apply so long as the subdivision or land development plan is filed within in

[34:12] the township within one year from the board's decision and the final approval

[34:17] and recording occurs with one year um within one year from the date of the

[34:23] authorization thereof uh if such special exceptional variance

[34:27] has been appealed. So, as I read that, you have to submit a land development

[34:30] plan within a year and then um you will have to record it.

[34:37] Um maybe within another year,

[34:44] » maybe. >> Mine says six months, but mine might be

[34:46] old for for actually submitting the the subdivision of land amount development.

[34:51] » We we did update that uh >> I believe a year and a half ago.

[35:00] So, if we were to give you approval tonight,

[35:04] you have one year to file land development plan. At that point, once

[35:08] the land development plan is filed, you have a 5year grace period to complete

[35:13] constru construction. Correct, Nate? >> Correct.

[35:20] » Wow. Wait, say that again. Sorry. Once the land development plan is filed,

[35:26] if we were to give them approval tonight, they have one year to file the

[35:29] land development plan. Once that's filed, they then have a fiveyear period

[35:34] to complete. >> Once it's filed, they have a year to

[35:37] record the plan >> and then you have a

[35:39] » then correct. >> Yeah, that's my understanding as well.

[35:43] So, we basically have two years to record it, one year to file it,

[35:48] » right? And at any point I think we can come in before it expires and request an

[35:54] extension. That's correct. >> We will just need to do extra diligence

[35:58] on the tickler side of things to be sure we know.

[36:02] » But does that make sense? So >> uh I I think we would be okay

[36:06] withdrawing the request for the >> because I I just hate to give you I

[36:10] always like to give the minimal variance request. Y

[36:12] » and if you only need the six months, I'd give you six months. If you think you

[36:15] can get it all done in a year, if not, you can always come for an additional

[36:19] time. >> No, I I think that's fine.

[36:22] » Uh just so your

[36:26] um client is aware, uh conditions in case 1051 would still be in effect

[36:32] except for um number one, which is the no dwelling, which we we could approve

[36:38] tonight. And case number 247 is null and void

[36:43] because that expired.

[36:52] One last question. I didn't see this anywhere on any of the submitted

[36:55] drawings. What's the expected lot coverage?

[37:00] » The impervious surface. >> Y

[37:04] » I don't know the exact amount, but I do know that it's well within the

[37:09] requirement. I think it's 10%. Correct, Nate

[37:14] or Jeremy? >> Um, they're allowed substantially more

[37:19] than what they're going to use. >> Okay. I think it's you I think it's 10%.

[37:25] So, in your case, it's 37 acres, correct? So, you'd allow 3.7 acres of

[37:30] lot coverage. Are you going to you're going to be

[37:33] substantially under that? Is what you're saying?

[37:35] » Yeah. I mean, this the civil engineer that I'm using has has obviously looked

[37:39] at that and done the calculation and he said there's no issues with impervious

[37:43] surface um based on this this current plan.

[37:48] » For what it's worth, I'm looking at maximum lot coverage.

[37:53] It says agricultural 60% which sounds high to me for an a district, but

[37:58] » I thought it was 10. I looked up >> uh and and the residential use is still

[38:04] fairly high. I think slight 35% like they they have no issues with lock

[38:08] coverage. >> Okay, perfect.

[38:14] Any questions? >> No. Jason,

[38:18] » um yeah, just one or two. Uh did you So you is there currently a local horse

[38:25] operation that's being moved to this property?

[38:28] » Correct. >> Okay. Um and where is that?

[38:32] » It's in Litz. Okay.

[38:40] and it be about the same size in terms of horses and and everything.

[38:45] » Actually, this would be smaller. So, the current operation is

[38:51] 22 horses give or take. So, this would this is purposely smaller.

[38:58] » Okay.

[39:08] Um,

[39:13] all right. And so you're you're withdrawing the request for the the time

[39:17] extension. You're um I don't think the board's

[39:20] acted on it yet, but you made a motion to uh request the additional variances

[39:26] from the accessory dwelling unit criteria. Essentially,

[39:29] » we'll get to that one minute there. >> Okay.

[39:33] » Um, okay. I think that's all.

[39:38] » Anybody in the audience have any questions for the applicant?

[39:46] » All right. Mr. At this time, we'll um you would

[39:52] restate your request to amend your application.

[39:55] » Sure. We'd like to amend the application to include a variance to 270-5.1,

[40:05] I'm sorry, 5.2 A, which is accessory dwelling units

[40:10] subsection. Um,

[40:16] » three >> three1

[40:19] and 12. >> Thank you. 311. Uh, and I guess 12 we

[40:24] wouldn't be looking for relief from. We would actually be willing to record that

[40:27] document if the if the board would like us to see that. Uh, it would just need

[40:33] to be I guess you're right that the relief would be to indicate it's limited

[40:37] to farm workers and not family members. >> Correct.

[40:40] » So, it's the same concept as the accessory dwelling unit, but it would be

[40:45] limited to farm workers. >> Right. And it would have to be recorded

[40:48] on the land development plan. >> Yep. Um I think it actually requires

[40:54] maybe recording on the >> deed also

[40:56] » uh recorder of deeds a notorized document. So uh we can do that

[41:02] and we'll run that by the the township solicitor to be sure it's acceptable.

[41:08] » We do have a template agreement for that.

[41:11] » Oh great. >> And you would like to

[41:14] withdraw the request for the time extension.

[41:16] » That's correct. Gentlemen, you had a request by the applicant to amend their

[41:21] um application as stated. Um do I have a motion? Can

[41:25] » I ask a question first before we move on that? When you're asking for the

[41:28] extension um to exceed the 40%, what would be a comfortable number? I don't

[41:32] want to just throw you do whatever you want.

[41:41] » Are you So you're saying the the 40% is the size of the apartment based on the

[41:45] barn size. All right. right now. Right now is what it's allowed, but what would

[41:49] you feel comfortable with? >> What you what you submitted was 720 ft.

[41:54] » That Yeah. And again, that it's not the final, but it's that that is what we

[41:59] intended to to look like. >> My suggestion is yes, for 50%. Because

[42:04] if you're building a two-story garage, that gives you the ability to use the

[42:10] whole top floor of the garage. That

[42:12] » That's fair. Good.

[42:17] I'm good. Okay. Do we have a motion? I'll

[42:20] » move. Have a second. >> I'll second it.

[42:22] » All right. We have a motion, a second to amend the applicant's application to add

[42:28] a variance to section 270-5.2A3

[42:33] uh 11 and 12 and to withdraw the request for a time

[42:38] extension. Mr. Kalis, how you vote? >> In favor,

[42:42] » Mr. Loose. in favor. >> I will also vote in favor. Your

[42:46] application has been amended.

[42:50] » Um, is there anything else you wish to add before we close testimony?

[42:56] » No. Thank you for directing us to the accessory dwelling unit. I think that's

[43:01] a better approach. >> I just think that's the way to go.

[43:03] » I agree. In that case, uh, in case number

[43:10] 2500, we will, uh, close testimony and take

[43:15] administrative notice of cases number 1051

[43:20] and, um, 2470.

[43:26] Gentlemen, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, uh, for case number 2500,

[43:35] uh, for Eric Wardrop and Tasha Plunkett at 135 Rut Road, I move that we approve

[43:43] the variance to section 270-5.2

[43:47] FFD to allow construction of a triple FD.

[43:52] Section FF, >> didn't I? Okay. D.

[43:56] » Yeah. to allow construction of a farm dwelling

[44:00] and the variance uh approved the variance to section 270-3.2B

[44:07] to allow an accessory farm worker apartment

[44:13] to allow the variance of section 270-5.2A3

[44:18] to allow the dwelling to exceed the 40% to 50%.

[44:25] To variance uh approve the variance of section 275.2A1

[44:32] to allow that dwelling to be occupied by a non-family resident

[44:37] and then 270-5.2A12

[44:43] to record the residence as a non-family and only foreign work.

[44:48] » Okay. And um what about the request for variance to modification of conditions

[44:53] in case number 105? >> Again, the modification of conditions.

[44:58] » Okay. Um I'd like to add our standard conditions.

[45:03] » Yep. >> All right. Case number 2500. Uh request

[45:08] of Eric Orard and Trisha Plunkett for property located 135 road, Manheim PA.

[45:16] Grant them a request their variance for modification of condition number one in

[45:21] case number 1051 a variance from section 270-5.2

[45:29] triple FD the section

[45:34] variance to section 270 uh-3.2B

[45:43] to allow for farm workers um

[45:49] accessory dwelling unit. The variance to section 270-5.2

[45:57] two A

[46:00] 3 11 and 12 to allow for um three to allow for uh 40 50% total square footage

[46:10] of the primary structure of the residence.

[46:16] 11 allow um to allow farm workers to occupy the accessory

[46:24] dwelling and 12 um to allow um that um farm workers the

[46:33] the property owner record shall record a notorized statement

[46:37] saying it's farm workers and if in the future I would like to add one

[46:44] other condition um that if the property is no longer going to be used for

[46:51] agriculture, this decision become null and void.

[46:57] » I'll second it. >> So motion uh made and seconded by Mr.

[47:03] Caldes. Any discussion?

[47:10] If not, Mr. Kus, how you vote? >> In favor,

[47:13] » Mr. Loose. in favor >> and I will also vote in favor. Your

[47:16] request has been granted. >> Thank you, gentlemen.

[47:18] » Thank you. >> Thank you.

[47:23] » Take a five minute break real quick.

[47:28] » Back on the record. >> All right, we're back on the record.

[47:32] Jeremy, would you please call the next case?

[47:36] » Case number 25501, Specialized Education Systems, Inc. 808 Estella Drive seeking

[47:42] a special exception for a use not provided for.

[47:46] » Is there somebody here from Specialized Education Systems?

[47:49] » Yes, my name is Elizabeth Venos. I'm here from Barley Snder on behalf of

[47:54] Specialized Education Systems. We also have two representatives from

[47:58] Specialized Education System here this evening.

[48:01] » Two things. One, can you state your last name again?

[48:03] » Sure. It's Venos. >> Venas.

[48:05] » Van AS.

[48:11] And is there anybody in the audience wants to be a party to this case?

[48:16] » Are they >> They're already They're with us.

[48:19] » If you're part of the application, you're already a party.

[48:23] » So, we have two witnesses planned for you this evening from Specialized

[48:27] Education Systems, Inc. Since that name is a mouthful, we'll just be referring

[48:31] to it by its acronym, which is CESI, just to save us all some time. So from

[48:36] Cessi, the two witnesses we have planned this evening are Marcus Henley and

[48:41] Michael Espazito and you'll be hearing from both of them shortly about the

[48:44] plans for this property. We also do have a member of the entity that owns this

[48:50] property. We have Wilmer Muser um from Estelle Group LLC um the legal owner of

[48:56] the property. Uh we do not plan to ask him any questions, but he is here if the

[49:01] board has any questions about the property itself or anything that he

[49:05] might be better poised to answer. So, as was mentioned, we're here about

[49:12] property located at 808 Estelle Drive. You may be familiar with this property.

[49:17] It was most recently used as a Chesterbrook Academy daycare, and Cessie

[49:23] is the prospective applicant of that same building. That building is

[49:27] currently vacant and has been for a period of time since um Chesterbrook

[49:32] moved out of it and it is available for lease and Cessie is looking to use the

[49:39] property for its specialized education programming. Um CESI you'll hear shortly

[49:45] from Mr. Espazito is a company that contracts with and partners with local

[49:51] school districts to provide specialized education services for students who

[49:56] might have behavioral or learning disabilities um or special needs of some

[50:01] kind. And it provides some programming um outside of the traditional school

[50:07] system and outside of the traditional classroom environment.

[50:15] So Cessi is looking to use this existing building. There is no development

[50:19] planned to it. They're not planning to um really make many changes at all as

[50:24] Mr. Espazito will say. Um and I'll have them up shortly, but just to kind of tee

[50:29] this up um the applicants p representatives met with township staff

[50:34] earlier this summer um to talk about how this use might be categorized since it

[50:40] is a bit of a unique use. It's doesn't fall under any of the definitions in the

[50:45] ordinance. It's not an office or professional service building. Um, and

[50:50] it's also not necessarily a traditional school. So, after meeting with your

[50:54] zoning officer and your township manager, um, we were advised to apply

[50:59] for a special exception for a use not provided for as a special education

[51:03] facility. It has some markers of a school, but as I said, it's not a

[51:09] traditional classroom environment. and Miss Henley will come up shortly to

[51:12] explain kind of what the day-to-day programming looks like um and how it is

[51:17] different from a traditional school. So again, we're asking for a use not

[51:22] provided for um which is something that's not necessarily specifically

[51:27] prohibited or um allowed by the ordinance and it doesn't meet any of the

[51:31] other ordinance definitions. Um, we did go through kind of the general and

[51:36] specific special exception criteria from your ordinance for this use, but again,

[51:40] that's under section 270-1.9 for the use not provided for. So, I'll

[51:46] have Mr. Espazito come up first to give some background on CESI and what it does

[51:51] in this area and then we'll have Miss Henley come up next to talk about

[51:54] programming.

[52:00] » Apologies. Just for the record, the applicant is specialized education

[52:04] services, not systems, but I'll keep referring to it as CESI just because

[52:08] that is a mouthful. So, um, can you just state your name and title for the

[52:13] record? >> Michael Espazito, regional vice

[52:15] president. >> And what is your role at CESI?

[52:19] » So, I oversee, uh, the Pennsylvania region, Ohio region, parts of Georgia

[52:24] and stuff. Um, I oversee the operations of setting up programs, getting them

[52:28] started, getting folks trained, and getting them to go.

[52:32] » How long have you been in this role or involved with CESI?

[52:35] » I've been with SESI since 2010. I've been in this role since 2015.

[52:41] » So, can you scribe describe just a little bit for the board um what SESI is

[52:45] and what it does and especially focusing kind of on the Lancaster area?

[52:49] » Yes. So, so we what we do is we typically um we'll go out to districts

[52:54] and talk to them and see what their needs are and they'll sort of bring

[53:00] their consortium of the surrounding districts uh around, right? Because some

[53:04] of these some of the services that are needed desperately in some of these

[53:08] districts, they can't sustain an actual program on their own. So what we do is

[53:13] we bring the consortium where it's uh cohesive together and they collaborate

[53:18] with each other and then we sort of script out our plan and stuff and what

[53:21] the services we'll be providing to them. Lancaster we actually we've been in

[53:26] Lancaster for about 14 years. Uh we ran we run a credit recovery program there.

[53:30] We run alternative ed for folks that you know behavior students. Uh we've been

[53:35] there since Yeah. 14 years. >> And has Cessie already been in contact

[53:39] with Hefield School District? I actually met with uh Hempfield School District

[53:43] personally last August with uh Dr. Goodidge. Um we have a bunch of York

[53:48] programs that are going to be similar to what we're looking to do here and

[53:53] Hempfield actually sends their students out to York. And just one thing I just

[53:58] want to note like well when I did tell them that we were actually looking at

[54:01] the Bustleton area and stuff like they went crazy like they you know they were

[54:06] excited that we get closer because transportation for some of these kids uh

[54:10] it's a lot they're sitting on a van and these are kids that are on the spectrum

[54:14] and stuff so you know them being on the van as long as they are in a day and

[54:17] they should be in the building you know. So based on your meetings with the

[54:23] school district and what you just said and in your experience, would you say

[54:26] there's a need for this type of facility in this area?

[54:29] » And absolutely. And it wasn't just Hempfield. We've met we, you know, with

[54:33] the consortium idea. We met with Eastern Lancaster. We've met with Warick. We've

[54:37] met with starts with P. Yeah. Yeah. I can never get it right. Um yeah. So

[54:43] there there's a bunch of districts that are sort of in the wings hoping, right?

[54:48] Um you know, this is one of our biggest issues when we look at some of these is

[54:53] actually finding the space and once this fell I mean it couldn't be more perfect.

[54:59] » So I know you just mentioned that this building is well suited. Um we do have

[55:04] and I'll pass this around to the board. This was not submitted with our

[55:07] application but um the applicant did work with a local architect to put

[55:14] together a revised floor plan. um actually measured out. The one that was

[55:18] um included in the application was from the property's broker. So um I'll go

[55:23] ahead and pass this around and we'll put this into the record.

[55:31] » I mean the the build this building layout is a split image of the ones we

[55:36] have in York. Like just bizarre that that because that never happens like

[55:39] that for us, but it is exactly a splitting image.

[55:59] So the the the exhibit that's in that was with the application that said floor

[56:04] plan. That's not correct. That's >> So that is correct. But this one

[56:07] actually has measurements on it. The architect did actually go out to the

[56:11] site and measure everything with a tape. So, we wanted to provide this updated

[56:16] plan. It actually shows the same thing that's currently being projected. That

[56:21] was the floor plan submitted with the application. The only thing I will warn

[56:25] you is that this one is orientated oriented slightly different. Um, so you

[56:30] would want to turn it to 90 degrees. I think it would be

[56:35] » counterclockwise. >> Yes. just so you can kind of match it up

[56:39] with what um what the floor plan was that we submitted with our application.

[56:44] Um but Michael, what I want to ask you about this uh exhibit A1 that we're

[56:50] looking at this floor plan is Cessie um proposing any big changes to the

[56:56] building. >> Like I said, it it's pretty much ready

[57:00] to go. I mean, maybe some minor work around the bathrooms depending on stuff,

[57:05] but that's about it. Okay. So, this is already outfitted for an education use.

[57:11] You've got the facilities you need. >> We could run the program. We could start

[57:14] tomorrow. >> Okay.

[57:20] » Just a couple of more questions. So, one of the things we have to show is that

[57:25] this proposed use is compatible with the other neighboring uses in the area. it

[57:30] won't detract from them and won't cause, you know, any detrimental effects to

[57:34] health, safety, and welfare. In your opinion, does this pose any of those

[57:38] risks? And in your opinion, this is appropriate. This is an appropriate use

[57:42] for the site? >> Yes.

[57:44] » Okay. Those are all the questions I had for Mr. Espazito. We do have one more

[57:48] witness planned, but if the board has questions for him at this point,

[57:54] » um, my question is how how recently vacated was the previous Mr. Muser would

[58:00] probably be How recently was this vacated? My

[58:05] understanding is it was a little over a year.

[58:11] » All right. Um, for the record, could you please state

[58:16] your name and address, please, for the court reporter?

[58:22] » Homemer Muser, 1721 Lilac Drive, Litz.

[58:28] » Okay. And you're representing uh the owner

[58:31] » ownership.

[58:34] Do you have any questions for >> you said that it it it's ready to go and

[58:38] could be How quickly are you thinking of getting in and and doing the uh your

[58:45] programs for Hempfield? >> Yeah. So when we do open these programs,

[58:49] we also have to fill out an application with the state and we work with PTE and

[58:53] stuff. So we've been currently working and sort of like prepping that these are

[58:58] possibilities because they have very strict guidelines in terms of their

[59:02] board meetings and when you can get on their agenda and stuff. So if all in a

[59:06] perfect world, we would look for like a mid January start.

[59:12] » Nope.

[59:17] » How would you describe this company? Is it a education company? Are students

[59:24] there all day long or students come and go?

[59:27] » So we have a variety of programming, right? So specialized education

[59:31] services, that's that's it. So depending on what the programming is, this

[59:36] programming being that it's going to be mainly for kids that are on the autism

[59:39] spectrum and stuff, we typically have those kids for some time, right? They're

[59:44] they're sent to us. The ultimate goal is always to try to one get kids back into

[59:50] society to be productive citizens and to get, you know, if it's a behavior

[59:54] program, you know, the state also has different guidelines too, right? Like

[59:58] you got you got to transition kids back into the homeschool districts, get them

[1:00:02] back into the mainstream so they could function and whatever. But it depending

[1:00:07] on the programming, we do a ton of professional development for teachers.

[1:00:10] We work with districts with coaching, tutoring, um, mental health. I mean, it

[1:00:15] it's a variety of things depending on what your

[1:00:18] » I think if your question is more kind of geared toward maybe day-to-day

[1:00:23] activities and programming students in the building.

[1:00:27] » Yes, >> Miss Henley's going to be your

[1:00:29] » Do they come here in the morning and stay until it's time to go home?

[1:00:32] » So, those students are there pretty much all day. Correct.

[1:00:35] » Correct. >> Sounds like a school to me.

[1:00:39] Well, based on our meeting with township staff, it doesn't quite meet the kind of

[1:00:44] run-of-the-mill school definition since it's it's a quasi school office and it

[1:00:48] does provide some other specialized programming that's a little bit

[1:00:52] different from a school or a daycare. >> I understand that. I have an issue with

[1:00:57] a use not provided for. >> Sure.

[1:01:00] » Um and we'll get into that in a minute. I'm going to turn it over to our

[1:01:04] solicitor here a minute about the time limit.

[1:01:08] Okay. Well, yeah. So, I guess the the question has been answered that it's

[1:01:14] it's been vacated for over a year. >> Yes.

[1:01:16] » Otherwise, you could have asked for a a um substitution of a non-conforming use.

[1:01:22] » Right. That's why we had met with township staff beforehand since this was

[1:01:27] vacated. We couldn't reinstitute or try to substitute a non-conforming use. We

[1:01:31] had Mr. Espazito was in the meeting as well. we had kind of, you know, run

[1:01:36] through with zoning officer and township manager types of programming here the

[1:01:40] work that this um business does with the school districts. And we're advised

[1:01:45] that, you know, this isn't technically a run-of-the-mill school um under the

[1:01:49] definition in your ordinance. And it also doesn't necessarily meet, you know,

[1:01:54] community activity building or professional offices or um you know,

[1:01:59] services buildings and things of that nature in your ordinance. So this is

[1:02:02] kind of a unique >> Okay. How how are you licensed by the

[1:02:05] state? >> Once once we fill out that PAS

[1:02:09] application, they'll come in once we have the certificate off. That will

[1:02:14] trigger them to come out and they do their whole like walk through. They do

[1:02:17] their audit. They check make sure our programming is right, staffing is

[1:02:21] according, certifications are correct, and then they will issue us the

[1:02:26] certificate. And then after the first year of operations, because we are an

[1:02:31] accredited organization through Cognia, we will live under the Cogna

[1:02:35] accreditation license and then PAS will ship that that paperwork over to them.

[1:02:41] » Okay. I guess I meant is it are you licensed in the same category as a

[1:02:45] private school or >> private academic school? We lic.

[1:02:49] » So you'd be licensed as a private academic school.

[1:02:52] » Private AC that because that's how they count. So like you have all bed like ADY

[1:02:58] that's a totally different program that's a totally different license for

[1:03:01] the state. >> My issue here is I would rather have

[1:03:05] seen this as a variance because my problem with a use not provided for even

[1:03:11] though every case is decided on its own merits it does set a precedence

[1:03:17] » and I'm not sure I want to go that direction.

[1:03:21] I would much rather see this as a variance

[1:03:25] um a use variance as opposed to a use not provided for.

[1:03:32] » Okay. So, in your view, this this would meet

[1:03:36] the ordinance's definition of just a school.

[1:03:39] » Does it meet it completely? No. But I'd rather see it go that way as than

[1:03:45] opposed to a use not provided for again because especially in this uh CBC zone,

[1:03:55] it could open a can of worms down the road that I'd rather not go down. Are

[1:04:00] there any conditions that would be um that we could propose to the board

[1:04:04] keeping this as a use not provided for and kind of trying to tailor it um in

[1:04:10] such a way to not open the door to uses that maybe wouldn't be appropriate for

[1:04:15] the site.

[1:04:21] What do you think? >> Well, okay. Maybe just a couple more

[1:04:25] questions about are students they're not are they actually going to graduate from

[1:04:30] this school? Will there >> they won't graduate? They'll graduate

[1:04:34] from their sending district. So, if Hempfield sends five kids from us,

[1:04:40] they'll complete the program, but their diplomas will read Hempfield School

[1:04:44] District. >> So, if I can just jump in and please

[1:04:46] correct me if I'm wrong. This is kind of a diversion program for students who

[1:04:52] aren't thriving in a traditional school setting. Um, but it's not a school that

[1:04:58] offers, you know, programming where they would get a diploma from it. It kind of

[1:05:02] offers them alternative learning environments and the goal is

[1:05:06] ultimately for them to go back to their normal home school district.

[1:05:12] » Yeah. I just want to clarify that when you're talking about the autism

[1:05:15] population, the the need is more so the the the ask of the districts like

[1:05:21] Hefield is sending us kids to York, right? They you have Eastern Langster

[1:05:26] sending us kids to York around because there's just not enough autism services

[1:05:31] and resources for districts and then by sped law, you know, the district is

[1:05:36] responsible for that education of that student. and stuff. So again, that this

[1:05:40] is the main reason we're here is just because the dire need of of the

[1:05:43] services. >> I I don't have an issue with your

[1:05:45] services, right? >> Okay. I I have a nephew that's on the

[1:05:49] spectrum, so I I granted the service are needed. My issue is how do we get here

[1:05:55] » and that's acceptable to everyone. Um let me continue asking some questions

[1:06:02] here. How many students are you going to have

[1:06:07] in the building at one time? >> We can have Miss Henley come up and

[1:06:10] she's kind of our go-to for the the programming and dayto-day on this site.

[1:06:14] » Okay, go ahead.

[1:06:20] » Do you want to just state your name and title for the record?

[1:06:24] » If you're more comfortable, you can take it out of the hole or you can lower it

[1:06:26] down a little bit. Either way I

[1:06:32] » I'll just you can just pull it down. >> Yeah.

[1:06:38] » Um Marcus Henley >> and your title?

[1:06:41] » My title is uh regional director. >> So we just heard a lot of testimony from

[1:06:47] Mr. Espazito kind of big picture about sessy what it does in Pennsylvania in

[1:06:52] the Lancaster area. Um, just to get this on the record, how many students

[1:06:59] ballpark is Sassy proposing maximum at this location?

[1:07:03] » Okay, so maximum at this location would be 48 students. By law with students um

[1:07:09] with autism, we can only have eight students in a classroom.

[1:07:15] Um, so we've to in total we're looking at maybe six classrooms on down the line

[1:07:23] the first year with year one being only two classrooms.

[1:07:26] » So I know Mr. Espazito mentioned that typically if you have a group of

[1:07:30] students in or when you do um they're there for the school day.

[1:07:36] » Yes. But the intent is not for them necessarily to be only at Cessie as

[1:07:41] their school for years on end or long term. Is that correct? That is correct.

[1:07:46] » So this is a diversionary program basically where they can go for a period

[1:07:52] of time as needed to then be able to hopefully be reintegrated into their

[1:07:56] home school district. >> That's correct.

[1:07:58] » Okay. And with those 48 maximum students, is

[1:08:02] there ever potentially a time when all 48 of them could be in the building at

[1:08:06] once? >> Potentially.

[1:08:10] » Potentially. But the building is suited for up to that many students in your

[1:08:14] opinion? >> Yes. Okay.

[1:08:16] » And um do you have employees at the facility or would you?

[1:08:20] » We would have employees. Um year one it would be uh about 12 employees

[1:08:27] um with um if we get up to six classrooms or when we get up to six

[1:08:32] classrooms we would add an additional um four teachers and four teacher

[1:08:39] assistants. So that would add an additional eight

[1:08:44] employees. So up to like 20 employees >> and these are full-time employees.

[1:08:48] » These are fulltime full-time employees. And I know we said this operates

[1:08:52] basically same as the school calendar. Um, do you anticipate any evening or

[1:08:59] weekend hours? >> No.

[1:09:02] » Um, one of the things that I'm sure the board will have questions is we have to

[1:09:06] show that the property will be able to handle um, anticipated traffic for the

[1:09:10] proposed use. Um, obviously this property has existing access drives and

[1:09:15] a pretty large parking lot. Um, and it was previously used for the daycare. Um,

[1:09:19] will students be bus to the property? Are they typically driven by a parent?

[1:09:24] How does that work? >> Typically, they're um bus or in a van.

[1:09:28] Most of the time it's a van. If it is a school bus, it is the smaller size

[1:09:32] school buses. >> And do the school buses park there all

[1:09:35] day or do they kind of drop off and pick up?

[1:09:37] » They do not park. They just drop off and pick up at the end of the day.

[1:09:42] » So, in your opinion, is the existing parking lot adequate for this use?

[1:09:47] » Totally. Yes.

[1:09:49] » Are there other questions from the board for Miss Henley about um day-to-day

[1:09:54] activities, things like that? >> Just out of curiosity,

[1:10:00] » what time what would your hours of operation be?

[1:10:03] » Um the first staff would probably um enter open the building at about 7:15

[1:10:10] um with the remainder of the staff arriving by 7:30. Um buses will probably

[1:10:16] or vans will probably arrive at 7:45 and the drop off um process usually

[1:10:25] takes up until it probably would take around till 8:15 8:30 at the latest and

[1:10:32] then students would you know have a normal uh day. They come in, they have

[1:10:36] their morning classes, they have lunch, they may have recess. Um, and then they

[1:10:42] have their afternoon classes, and they prepare prepare for dismissal at 2:45.

[1:10:47] The first vans will arrive arrive around then. And that process again will take

[1:10:53] probably until 3:15 at the latest and then staff would stay until 3:30.

[1:11:00] » So by 4:00 everybody's out of the building.

[1:11:02] » Yes. And that is again I'm sorry Monday

[1:11:06] through Friday. Correct. >> Monday through Friday

[1:11:11] » questions.

[1:11:15] No township having a question.

[1:11:20] » Yeah. So um just in in terms of differentiating this from a traditional

[1:11:26] school um so how um how often does the the group of kids

[1:11:33] sort of I mean turnover how how I guess like how what's the percentage

[1:11:39] of kids actually do get reintegrated back into their schools or a rough

[1:11:44] estimate?

[1:11:48] Yeah, ES would be more they would uh it would be more turnover for them. Um ES

[1:11:55] is emotional support students. Um and generally they stay with us about a year

[1:12:02] maybe two. Usually when they get to us they do stay

[1:12:06] for the entire school year. It's not like midyear transitions.

[1:12:11] And then the autistic population, um, they would stay a a lot longer,

[1:12:16] sometimes three, sometimes four years. Okay. And I'm not sure if you're

[1:12:24] familiar with uh I know there's another there's a school in I think Mount Joy

[1:12:28] Janice School and um I'm not sure if you're familiar with that one.

[1:12:34] » No. >> Okay. Well, then you wouldn't be able to

[1:12:36] answer. I was just going to ask how it might differ from that school because

[1:12:39] I'm pretty sure that considered school but okay

[1:12:45] and you will have emotional support and autistic population at this school

[1:12:50] » correct >> okay

[1:12:56] thank you anybody in the audience have a qu

[1:13:01] question for the witness

[1:13:06] » um when we're talking about the different what are the ages of these

[1:13:09] kids a beyond elementary um is it just >> so our PAS um application went in as a

[1:13:19] first through 12th grade population. >> Yes.

[1:13:23] » So it's all okay.

[1:13:30] » Just uh for your information there are two cases

[1:13:34] associated with this property. Yes, I did provide one of the cases which um

[1:13:39] your zoning officer and manager kindly went to your paper records and dug out

[1:13:44] for me, but I don't believe we could locate a paper copy of the one that

[1:13:48] preceded that one. >> 1079, which was the one that preceded

[1:13:52] the one that was you noted was a deni denial anyway. So that had nothing.

[1:13:58] » Sure. >> Your applicant is aware that everything

[1:14:01] on case number 1111 is still valid at this point.

[1:14:07] Um who and one one of the things reading the

[1:14:12] previous uh decisions is when did Estelle Properties take

[1:14:18] ownership of this because I thought this was a partnership down the road

[1:14:22] especially from case 1111

[1:14:26] » over in 18 2018. >> Okay.

[1:14:30] » Bought it. Chester Book was in it at that time and they consolidated and

[1:14:35] So her willing to give it up for somebody else to come in.

[1:14:40] » Okay. Thank you.

[1:14:46] Anything else you wish to add?

[1:14:49] » No, not at this time. >> Okay. I would like to go off the uh

[1:14:54] record for a minute and have a discussion with our solicitor here.

[1:14:59] » All right. We'll be back on the record. I have two additional questions.

[1:15:04] » Sure. >> One, and this is going to be one of your

[1:15:07] witnesses here.

[1:15:11] » When you have a student that's in 12th grade, he's ready to graduate. Who makes

[1:15:16] the determination whether he graduates? You or the school district?

[1:15:21] » You collaborate with >> collaborate. Okay.

[1:15:23] » So, again, and it's the IEP that also IEP special education.

[1:15:30] » Okay. Second question would be for the

[1:15:33] representative of the property owner.

[1:15:40] One of the conditions if we approve this that we would like to put on here is is

[1:15:45] if um specialized education system

[1:15:51] incorporated lease that's it. It can't be used for any

[1:15:56] other type of same type of thing unless they

[1:16:00] come in and reapply. >> Are you acceptable to that?

[1:16:03] » I have a problem with that. >> Okay,

[1:16:06] » that's all good. >> All right. May too. Um

[1:16:10] I was just talking with your your township manager over um over the Zoom

[1:16:15] and one of the things we had discussed if the board is kind of leaning toward

[1:16:20] looking at this as a school that we could kind of propose as a middle ground

[1:16:23] here is we would ask that the board tables this um for this meeting and at

[1:16:29] the next meeting we would propose to amend our application

[1:16:34] um to pose this as a use variance for a school.

[1:16:38] » This board is willing to grant your special exception request

[1:16:44] with the condition >> with the condition as stated

[1:16:47] » as stated. And we want to move this forward because if you go

[1:16:53] as a school, you're going to need to request a variance which is going to

[1:16:56] require you to >> uh re reapply because it's such a change

[1:17:00] in right what you're asking. >> Right.

[1:17:03] » Well, I appreciate you being willing to to work with us on this.

[1:17:06] » So, In that case, if you have nothing else,

[1:17:09] » yeah, that's all we had planned. >> We will close testimony in case 2051.

[1:17:14] Take administrative notice of cases 1051 or I'm not sorry, 1079 and case 1111 and

[1:17:25] applicants exhibit number one, which is the floor plan.

[1:17:30] » Mr. Chairman, just one qu one more question. What what was uh Mr. Espazito,

[1:17:35] what was your title? vice president.

[1:17:38] » Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Do I have a motion?

[1:17:47] » Which one? [clears throat] >> To approve the special exception.

[1:17:52] » Mr. Chairman, case number 25501, Specialized Education Services

[1:17:58] Incorporated at 808 Estelle Drive. I move that we

[1:18:04] approve the variance for section 270-1.9

[1:18:10] C for use not provided for as a use for a special education facility

[1:18:18] with the conditions that upon exiting of this property um this

[1:18:26] approval will be null and void and not provided by the next tenants.

[1:18:35] » Okay. >> And our net our conditional conditions,

[1:18:39] » our standard conditions. I also have one additional

[1:18:43] condition. Um the applicant um should obtain all

[1:18:48] state permits required and necessary to operate and submit

[1:18:53] copies to the township. And if you have to renew them, any renewals would have

[1:18:58] to go to the township. Also, >> what can you restate that one?

[1:19:04] » Applicants should obtain all state permits and approvals necessary to

[1:19:08] operate and submit copies to the township and as they renew, they would

[1:19:12] need to be submitted also to the township. Okay.

[1:19:18] Um, [clears throat]

[1:19:22] case number 201, the request of Specialized Education Services

[1:19:27] Incorporated for property located at 808 Estelle Drive in Langster, PA 17601.

[1:19:34] Motion to grant their special exception to section 270-1.9C

[1:19:40] for use not provided for to allow them to operate a educational school for

[1:19:47] special special education facility with the following conditions. One if

[1:19:53] specialized education system leaves the uh special exception becomes null and

[1:20:00] void. two, our standard conditions, and three,

[1:20:05] the applicant will submit shall obtain all state permits and approvals

[1:20:09] necessary to operate and submit copies to the township and the and the renewals

[1:20:15] of those uh approvals. Is that your motion?

[1:20:19] » Yes, sir. >> Do I have a second?

[1:20:21] » I'll second it. >> Motion and a second. Any discussion?

[1:20:28] » I'll say something here. I'll make sure I'll happy.

[1:20:31] » Yeah. Um, I I think this is a definitely a needed here in in the county and to

[1:20:38] have it here in the township is great. Um, again, it was just trying to get the

[1:20:43] approvals that we I have an issue with and uh so hopefully we can move on. You

[1:20:49] get your approvals and everything will move forward.

[1:20:53] There's no other discussion. Mr. Kalis, how do you vote?

[1:20:57] » In favor, >> Mr. Loose

[1:20:59] » in favor. I will also vote in favor. Your special exception request has been

[1:21:03] granted. >> Thank you. Thanks for your time.

[1:21:06] » Thank you. Gentlemen, my understanding is we do have a case

[1:21:10] for the September meeting. Is that correct, Army?

[1:21:13] » That's correct. >> And that would be

[1:21:16] » that'll be on September 21st.

[1:21:20] » 21st. Cheryl, you're available.

[1:21:25] » Oh, you can zoom in. >> You zoom in.

[1:21:28] » [laughter]

[1:21:31] » Nathan, are you available? >> Not if you're on vacation. Available.

[1:21:34] » Are you available? I'm available. >> And you're going to check with Mr. Kyle,

[1:21:38] make sure he's available. Correct. >> I'll send out that email asking for

[1:21:42] attendance. Okay. >> That case, this meeting is adjourned. We

[1:21:46] » got to accept these next

2026.08.17 East Hempfield Township Zoning Hearing Board meeting

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