[0:03] All right. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to a work session of the Common Council of the City of Elmerage. We are now entering the meeting at 504 p.m. to say September 1, 2020.

[0:18] We are in City Council of Chambers, 10,000 North Elmerage Road, Elmerage Arizona 8, 5335, and we will have our City Clerk do the roll call.

[0:27] Mayor Hermissio, President, Vice Mayor Parsons, President, Council Member Dorsey, Council Member Elderidge, President.

[0:35] Council Member Gentry is not going to be here at the CPD. Council Member Normick Daniel, President.

[0:43] Council Member Winston is online.

[0:46] All right, thank

[0:55] you so much for that support on the roll call.

[1:00] I'm going to first hand it off to our city manager if you like to give any welcoming remarks and then open it up to staff.

[1:10] that we need to do for City Council.

[1:12] Nick has put together a fantastic

[1:14] meter replacement program presentation for you.

[1:18] And we're all here if you have any questions.

[1:20] Thank you so much.

[1:22] Thank you, Crystal.

[1:23] Good evening Mayor City Council.

[1:25] I believe we have a, there we go.

[1:28] Powerpoint queueed up.

[1:29] So as Crystal mentioned,

[1:30] we're going to talk tonight at the work session

[1:32] about capital improvement 6522,

[1:35] residential and commercial meter replacement project.

[1:39] So, what we're going to cover today, we're going to do a little bit of everything.

[1:44] We're going to start off with a kind of summary overview of the project,

[1:48] what the project is in general.

[1:50] We're going to talk about the existing meter system and the current condition

[1:54] of operations.

[1:56] Then we're going to talk about a little bit more detail.

[1:59] The replacement project scope and what we're looking to get out of the project.

[2:03] After that, we're going to talk a little bit about procurement and how that method works.

[2:07] And then finally we'll talk about the next steps from here and a timeline and then we'll have time for questions at the end.

[2:15] And if there's, if there's any questions throughout feel free to stop me also, I'd like to introduce our staff that we have here for technical questions and operations.

[2:24] Fennis Rodriguez is our customer service manager and Terrence Garrison is our lead meter technician.

[2:30] So if we do get into the weeds, they're here to help us through some of that.

[2:33] The very important people.

[2:35] Absolutely.

[2:37] OK, so this slide is the general overview of the project.

[2:42] So the project in general is for a replacement

[2:44] of the entire meter system for the city, which consists

[2:47] of meters communication technology,

[2:50] the system integration with our billing software,

[2:53] reporting to the city, and customer facing capabilities.

[2:56] So it's kind of an all in one package

[2:58] is what the city is looking for with this project.

[3:01] So, some ideas about the current CIP and long range planning that we've already undertaken.

[3:07] This project was on the horizon.

[3:09] It was originally introduced in fiscal year 24 on the five year CIP.

[3:14] It wasn't put in fiscal year 24.

[3:16] It was put on the end year.

[3:18] So it was kind of in the horizon at that time.

[3:21] We did estimates at that time based on market pricing and pricing of labor.

[3:25] so we came to a $8.5 million project total and we did include that in the currently fully funded

[3:33] CIP. So this is a project that is in the water fund and it is funded currently as a CIP.

[3:42] Some stats for the project itself as of today if we were to replace all the meters that need replacing

[3:48] That's a number in the top right, the 11,107 meters, and then the other key point for the project implementation from the time we start the project with the vendor.

[4:01] We're looking between 12 to 18 months depending on how the project is set up.

[4:06] And then the important part of why now, why are we looking to replace this?

[4:11] So the existing system, as you all know, was installed in 2014, and it's reached the end

[4:18] of its useful life, the meters have and the reporting has.

[4:22] So that's why we put it on the horizon back in 24, and then for this capital year, we're

[4:29] looking to get it replaced because the system is phasing out life-wise.

[4:34] So a little bit more about the existing system, a lot of this is information you have already

[4:39] So the original system was installed in 2014, the total system to the meter is 11,791 meters.

[4:49] They consisted 94% residential meters, the other 6% are for commercial accounts, commercial landscape, city and multi-family accounts.

[5:00] So, currently, the system uses the fixed network and i-tron technology for metering, so that's where each

[5:07] meter has a radio on it, which reports to a collector, then it reports to either repeater or to the

[5:14] cloud, and the cloud is where the i-tron software picks up that information, and then we access i-tron to get it in.

[5:21] So, a few different steps there. Some lifecycle context from talking about the system itself. It is

[5:29] about 12 years old.

[5:31] Typical meter systems do have about 10 to 12 years

[5:35] a useful life based on industry standards.

[5:39] And right now the community I'll go into detail

[5:41] on the next slide, but the communication

[5:42] and reporting performance has declined

[5:45] as the system has aged.

[5:47] And then the really important part here

[5:49] that makes the replacement a real factor

[5:52] is the physical meter accuracy on the low end

[5:56] is somewhere around 82%.

[5:58] So that means that because of the decline and the age of the meters, we are not accounting

[6:03] for as much water as is going through those meters.

[6:06] So that's an important part that we're going to talk about when we talk about replacement.

[6:12] So the current status communication wise, we're at about 70% up.

[6:18] And that's a little higher than it used to be because we have replaced some meters since 2024

[6:23] and 30% are not reporting currently.

[6:27] So, the note underneath that, since 2024, when we took over the meter services in house, we've

[6:34] replaced meters as a needed, and we've done about 684 meters, actually the gentleman to my left here.

[6:40] I think it's probably done the majority of those.

[6:44] So we do our current operations, we continue to monitor and identify any non-reporting meters.

[6:51] We replace the individual meters as needed every cycle, if a few more drop off, if a few

[6:56] fail or a few more not reporting. We add those to the list for replacement and we replace the

[7:01] priority meters that we need today. Anything that doesn't come in we manually read when we

[7:07] can't get the automated read and then currently one thing that our team's been working on is evaluating

[7:13] different replacements. We do have about four different vendors that we have meters in the ground

[7:19] for right now that we've been working with since this process started just so we can evaluate the

[7:26] different technology and assets that are out there.

[7:30] So the project itself, here's the objective

[7:32] so the project, so I'm going to skip around and go

[7:36] to the bottom right as the most important one.

[7:39] We're looking for long-term support ability

[7:42] and technology compatibility.

[7:44] So where we're at today with the current system,

[7:47] we're basically looking to go in a different direction,

[7:50] we're looking to go somewhere where 12 years, 14 years from now,

[7:54] we can look at the system and see a system that's not perfect

[7:57] because it'll be declining, everything declines, but something that will be more supportable

[8:01] at that time and more reliable.

[8:04] So the idea in general is reliability, communication with the new system, and then reduce

[8:11] water loss.

[8:12] So, as I mentioned, if the meters aren't physically efficient because of their age, we need

[8:17] to account for the water that's going through there, replacement of the meters will allow

[8:21] for that.

[8:21] That's super important, especially with the water conditions and we're part of that bigger

[8:25] water picture, so us doing our part, this is definitely a big part of that. A new system

[8:32] would enhance our leak detection and consumption monitoring,

[8:36] so it's, you know, 14 years

[8:38] after 2012 when we started shopping for the old system. The technology is a lot different

[8:43] now. The leak detection is more sophisticated, the monitoring is more sophisticated,

[8:52] the

[8:52] new technology does provide customers with the information, so hopefully the project will include

[8:59] a customer-facing portal that's integrated right into it.

[9:02] We did experiment with a technology called JobCounter, which was a third-party technology.

[9:08] We did that a few years ago with some success, but it was an extra cog in the wheel.

[9:12] So this project, we liked to bundle that in and get that taken care of as far as a customer-facing

[9:18] portal.

[9:19] And then I know the Finance Department is working on a large switch in the accounting software

[9:27] and utility billing software, which we're a part of.

[9:31] So we have to keep that in mind when we're looking at this project as well.

[9:34] It's going to have to integrate with whatever enterprise software finance gets for our accounting

[9:40] and utility billing.

[9:42] And then in the end, the idea is all the data that we're going to get from the system with the

[9:47] technology will be able to provide better decisions and will be able to control those decisions

[9:53] because it will be over the process as opposed to the way it was previously.

[9:59] Yes.

[10:01] I was informed that council member gentry has her hand raised, since it's okay with you. We can get to her in case you have a question. Council member gentry?

[10:13] Yes, I am present here in the meeting today. I am in line. What I was question was, I have two. The first one is the water. I have heard something about a water loss. We have a lot of water loss with the meters, not working correctly.

[10:32] Thank you for the question. So on the the previous slide and this is something we looked into and

[10:40] industry standards based on sorry my clickers now are based on the meter age somewhere between 15 to 20%

[10:47] of the efficiency of when you buy that meter from year one to year 12 year 14. So yes to answer your question.

[10:55] We are losing water through those meters because they're not accounting for as they would if they were new or newer.

[11:06] My other one is something about about five, thirteen we spoke.

[11:12] You stated that there was another company.

[11:15] I got little pieces of that.

[11:18] Can you please explain to me how many companies are we planning to use to in order to do get vendors to do the meters for us?

[11:26] Thank you for the question, so we'll explain the RFP process kind of towards the end of this presentation.

[11:32] We don't have a set number of companies that we are working with.

[11:36] We do have four that we have reached out to or have reached out to us that we are working with right now, but there is no set number.

[11:45] When we do the project, we are looking to select one vendor for the project.

[11:52] Thank you.

[11:53] You're welcome.

[11:56] Thanks so much, Nick.

[11:59] I can't really advance this slide. Could I get a slide please?

[12:07] Thank you.

[12:08] So this is a little bit more detailed scope about the project.

[12:12] As I mentioned earlier, it's about 11,100 meters right now.

[12:17] So that includes the meters and the communication endpoints.

[12:22] Any of the AMI system, if it's a fixed-based system, or if it's a cellular system,

[12:27] that is not specified.

[12:30] utility billing system integration as I mentioned on the last slide with the accounting software,

[12:35] customer portal, which is standard these days, and then system reporting and monitoring that integrates with the accounting software,

[12:44] and then the important part staff training and implementation support. So one of the things when we took over meter reading in 2024,

[12:56] or the responsibility of it, this is going to be super important

[13:01] that the training piece because we're going to need to be trained

[13:04] on the software because we're going to be the ones who are touching

[13:07] the data, there won't be a third party hosting it.

[13:09] It'll be directly accessible by city staff.

[13:13] A little more detail on the installation approach.

[13:16] So one thing we are looking to do that is a little unorthodox

[13:19] is doing alternative when we put out the RFP.

[13:24] So the vendors will be able to provide two different prices.

[13:28] One would be a city-managed installation.

[13:31] And the other would be a vendor provided turnkey installation.

[13:34] I'll go into a little bit more detail here in a few slides.

[13:41] Okay, a little bit more detail on the system reporting and capabilities.

[13:45] So the three areas we're looking for, consumption and usage.

[13:49] We need to have something that's flexible.

[13:52] When reporting consumption, something that is a continuous use monitoring,

[13:56] whether it's a daily check-in or an hourly check-in, it's not specified at this time,

[14:01] but that's the types of things that are available.

[14:03] And then a big thing is historical usage information for the data that we provide,

[14:08] that's important when we provide our ADWR report to the state for the water that we're using every

[14:12] year. System management is a read rate and performance reporting, so we can do diagnostics on the

[14:18] system as we're using it. In the event that we do have some type of outage or the

[14:24] system is down for a period of time,

[14:26] the meters need to be read internally as a backup.

[14:30] So that needs to be part of it as well.

[14:33] And then of course, most of the systems nowadays

[14:35] do have communication monitoring,

[14:37] so self-diagnostic as it goes.

[14:39] You can see what's up and what's down.

[14:41] And then as I mentioned, a few times the customer portal

[14:44] is a big piece of this, helps the system be transparent,

[14:47] helps with water use and water loss.

[14:50] Some of those alerts and exceptions

[14:52] we're looking for as part of this product, leak and high usage reports, they get flagged

[14:58] based on the parameters that we set.

[15:00] And then low and no usage reports or zero reads, that we do right now talking with staff this morning. Currently we get an Excel file and we go through that line by line to do this right now. So this is something.

[15:16] Putting in a new system is going to eliminate the need for that. That's going to be a huge efficiency improvement for us.

[15:23] So, if a cable is cut, one of the communication end points, something that alerts us or staff.

[15:33] So, we can go out there and see what's going on.

[15:35] And then, of course, meters that don't report, we'll be able to pick up on those as well.

[15:43] Make less.

[15:48] I think it's been like that.

[15:49] Good.

[15:50] Somebody know you did.

[15:51] Council member, Council member, I'm sure we can still hear you. I'm not sure if you had a comment or if you just had your mic on you.

[16:01] I think Council member.

[16:04] Make any of you?

[16:06] I have a question on the leak and how usage reports.

[16:11] Is that just for internal staff or is that something that if you noticed there was something to indicate a leak that you would go out there immediately?

[16:22] and trying to determine what the issue is.

[16:27] Yeah, thank you for the question.

[16:28] So, it's actually a step beyond that.

[16:30] So, if we have a customer-facing portal

[16:32] and we have leak detection

[16:33] and we have parameters set at so many units

[16:36] that it goes beyond that

[16:37] and you're signed up for it or you're on that portal,

[16:39] you'll get either an email or a text or some notification.

[16:43] We'll get one on our end, too.

[16:45] And then it gets added to the list of items

[16:46] to look out for that day.

[16:47] All right, great. Thank you.

[16:50] I mean, I'm going to use this pause very quickly

[16:51] Other council colleagues have anything to add?

[16:56] I don't know if you need to see if they're getting up.

[16:57] I'm a council member.

[16:57] Did you does?

[16:59] Perfect.

[17:01] Uh, council secretary Oosa?

[17:03] Sorry about that earlier.

[17:05] Um, I'm trying to use my device with my hearing equipment,

[17:08] my apologies to everybody.

[17:10] Um, also what I'm trying to,

[17:12] on here,

[17:13] do we, um,

[17:15] Nick, do we have a lot of camp ring alerts?

[17:19] Um, that's a great question.

[17:21] And so the actual number, I'm going to defer to Venice and Terrence on that for an actual

[17:26] number that we're getting on a monthly basis to be guys could provide that.

[17:34] Tampering alerts are usually, we get notified when we disconnect somebody for non-payment.

[17:39] We usually follow up with that.

[17:41] There is nothing that notifies us of a tampering, but we follow up physically after we do a

[17:48] disconnection and there hasn't been any notification from the customer payment, and that's

[17:53] follow up with tambourine.

[17:57] And how about the Excel?

[18:00] What are we doing with Excel right now?

[18:02] Are we?

[18:03] We have a program that's Excel that goes out.

[18:06] I've missed a piece of that.

[18:08] You please explain that again.

[18:09] Sure.

[18:11] So on the on the last slide on here on the right column.

[18:15] The leak high usage reports and lower no usage or zero reads or zero reports.

[18:20] Currently we get those from ITron in form of an Excel spreadsheet and then we manually

[18:26] go through two different staff check for redundancy and we go through that Excel list to

[18:32] see if anything looks like it's outside of normal parameters for billing purposes.

[18:41] Does that answer your question in Council Member Tentry?

[18:43] I was getting there.

[18:44] Thank you so much.

[18:45] Thank you.

[18:46] All right.

[18:46] Thanks so much.

[18:47] Anybody else?

[18:48] No.

[18:49] All right.

[18:50] Thank you Mayor.

[18:51] So a little bit more detail on the procurement.

[18:53] So we're looking to do a request for proposals, we're going to work directly with the finance department on this.

[18:59] And then a special note, we are going to work with a third party.

[19:03] We have a draft RFP that we've developed with a third party.

[19:06] The reason we're wanting to do that is for transparency and then objectivity.

[19:13] So what we want to do with that RFP is establish our clear technical operational,

[19:18] any integration training and then any implementation requirements will evaluate any of the qualified

[19:26] solutions as a response so that RFP through a competitive and objective process will follow the same process,

[19:33] finance follows with any other formal procurement that the city has.

[19:39] And anything that's included in there, the RFP will be evaluated based on system performance,

[19:45] implementation approach, long-term support, as I mentioned earlier, that's a huge goal.

[19:51] And then the overall value of the system.

[19:54] And then installation options, so the two alternatives that we're looking for in the RFP.

[20:00] Members will have the opportunity to provide a city managed installation. So this would be, we purchased the equipment, the software and the training, and then it's up to the city to manage that installation.

[20:12] The next slide I'll go into detail about a few options there. The other alternative that vendors will be able to provide is a turnkey solution. So, and all in one vendor provided meters plus installation.

[20:29] So, the city management installation, these are just estimates, but based on if we were to take the

[20:37] delivery of the 12,000 meters today and not do any kind of additional staffing in our current

[20:44] workload, we could complete the project, but we're estimating it would take probably about

[20:50] three years with our current staffing levels. It would also impact the current level of service

[20:55] because we do have tickets and work order service orders that we do complete on a daily basis

[21:00] for the system that we currently have. The kind of sub option within this option is here

[21:07] listed as a last bullet. It would be temporary projects staff, so working with human resources

[21:13] and hiring temporary staff, who would be directed or supervised by city staff, that could enable

[21:20] the city to find savings in that labor, and then also cut down the time frame because you'd

[21:27] have a meter installation focus team. So we just made it about 18 months with that option.

[21:34] And then of course the vendor provided installation most likely would be a higher price. But

[21:42] it would be a turnkey solution. There would still be city support of course with this because

[21:47] If a vendor comes in, they're going to be working with these folks every day on the daily stuff that's going on in the anomalies

[21:53] They come up to when they're working on installing the meters

[21:56] It's anticipated if this we're the method we'd be closer to a year on implementation and that's from the time that

[22:04] We'll say we have a pre-construction meeting with a vendor once the vendor's been selected

[22:08] We have a purchase order and we start the project who be a year from that day

[22:15] Yes, if you don't my council member, Dorsey

[22:17] So if you did the temporary higher option, how many temporary folks would take these things to get that done in 18 months?

[22:29] So our estimation is about four.

[22:32] Four.

[22:34] Because you're going to have to install somewhere around 750 meters a month, kind of, in that range.

[22:41] Yeah, I think Mr. Garrison, I think had it pegged down to a day.

[22:46] What did if I feed on my me?

[22:53] Approximately 11,000, I mean 1100 meters a month.

[22:57] So, plus we are 280, weekly, a staff of four can average anywhere from 9 to 15 meter change

[23:03] out the day.

[23:05] Good.

[23:06] Thank you.

[23:09] I have a question.

[23:10] Councillor Norton, Daniel?

[23:11] is the 8.5 million figure, including any of the installation?

[23:18] That is the absolute top of the threshold turn key solution, right?

[23:22] That would be the highest price.

[23:24] Okay, thank you.

[23:28] How long does it take to change each unit like time-wise?

[23:33] So every unit is going to be different.

[23:36] I'll lead on parents for the technical expertise on, let's say, an average meter installation

[23:41] of the two-person crew.

[23:45] An average meter installed for five-eighths residential or one-inch meter on a train staff should

[23:50] take anywhere from 10 to 15 minutes.

[23:54] Thank you.

[23:57] Thank you.

[23:57] Or anybody else?

[24:00] All right.

[24:00] Thank you.

[24:02] So, one of our last slides, so this is the next steps in timeline.

[24:05] So, from here, where we're at, where we're going to be over the next six months.

[24:10] So, right now we do have a draft RFP that we've worked with the third party on.

[24:14] we're finalizing that, we would advertise that sometime this month, we'd be looking to get vendor

[24:21] responses over the next 30 to 90 days depending on how long we structure the procurement

[24:26] to be.

[24:27] We devaluate those responses with staff members here, also a third party staff from different

[24:34] organizations, and then we'd look to get another panel member from possibly consulting or engineering

[24:41] just to get even more objectivized on the RFPs selection would be in the late fall and then

[24:50] pending this direction we'd be looking to bring this project back for your consideration sometime in December or possibly January.

[24:59] And then

[25:00] If it's approved at that time, we'd be looking to implement early in 2027, or we'd start meeting with the contractor laying out a schedule and a game plan.

[25:10] All right. All the questions, councilor Regendry.

[25:13] Yes. Very quickly before I go to you, councilor Regendry. I'm just going to ask,

[25:17] Nick, if there's any other portion of the presentation, are we good to start the discussion?

[25:22] Oh, perfect. I love it. Thank you. Perfect timing. All right. Then I will go to council member Regendry.

[25:31] Going back to page 9, what I'm understanding is that how many employees there's a city have right now to install and then we would have to hire four more temps is that correct.

[25:49] That is the estimate. Thank you for the question. Currently the city has two meter technicians.

[25:57] So we would have to hire two more attempts.

[26:01] We'd be looking at a staff of four temporary for the projectoration only.

[26:09] So we're looking at sick.

[26:11] Correct.

[26:11] That is correct.

[26:13] Thank you.

[26:15] Okay.

[26:16] I'm going to go ahead and begin discussion.

[26:18] I know there's my council colleagues who possibly have more questions.

[26:22] However, I do want to weigh in regarding the options presented in front of us.

[26:26] I am leading towards the option to hire temporary project staff before going to the vendor

[26:33] provided an installation option before going to the, what would be the city-match installation

[26:41] of the 36-month threshold only because I feel 18 months is better than three years,

[26:53] that's

[26:54] not a year, which is the most ideal,

[26:58] but considering the cost savings,

[26:59] I think that would be the happy medium for us.

[27:03] My only hesitation would be what does it look like

[27:07] after the installations are completed

[27:09] because I know that I always want for our staff

[27:12] to make sure they have continuum

[27:14] and that service is not being interrupted

[27:16] for whatever reason.

[27:18] And so having temporary staff,

[27:20] we know an exact exit time period is for them,

[27:23] what happens with the team after that point in time.

[27:26] And I know the meters have been a very big topic of conversation and, you know, just taking

[27:32] into account issues that we've had with them.

[27:35] And so I just want to make sure that we're really kind of hitting the nail on the head

[27:38] with this decision, but also, as usual, I'm open to the appetite of my council colleagues.

[27:46] And so I'm free to begin with discussion.

[27:49] I know that.

[27:50] Do you mind if she, um, piggy thought, okay, Council Member Dorsey and then Aldridge?

[27:55] I guess the question I had is tracks right with the mayors, but the folks that would

[28:00] be hired temporarily, would they then potentially be acquiring skills that would make

[28:08] them good candidates for us as we had openings in public works?

[28:13] Yeah, thank you for the question. Absolutely. Absolutely. If there were open positions.

[28:17] Okay, so there's a potential, I'm not promising anybody an ongoing job beer, but there's a potential that they could at the end of that 18 months be absorbed in some other position with the city.

[28:32] Okay, and I was just hitting on the point of the institutional knowledge is very important that you gain from being part of a project, but then what happens after the project is done.

[28:40] like life still continues and so do the needs of whichever project that we are looking at obviously they would be hired

[28:48] on for a very specialized purpose. But I'm also very cognizant about, what does that mean about service to our community afterwards, you know?

[28:56] And so, yes, I agree with Councilor Versy. All right, Councilor Elcherge?

[29:01] Um, a couple of questions. So with hiring templates, we've got to consider the training, sure.

[29:06] then we've got to consider the insurance time off all that stuff. Contract-wise it might be a better idea to look at the

[29:15] the Fender only because they absorb those costs.

[29:20] And then we know the training is already going to be taking care of.

[29:23] So that to me is good idea. I do like the idea of getting it done faster.

[29:28] But at the same time, you know, I want to make sure that, you know, what if half the staff calls off sick.

[29:34] Now we've got delays and stuff like that, whereas the vendors got to take care of that,

[29:37] it's their responsibility to make sure plus there's going to be warranties in place.

[29:41] If the vendor does the install, they make a mistake. We make a mistake, then that's on us.

[29:47] And then a couple of the questions. So currently you have two meter technicians right now. Once this

[29:52] is completed, we're not going to need a meter technician. Whereas where are those hours going to be

[29:57] purpose too. So thank you for the question.

[30:00] It's a good question.

[30:03] It's my estimation that we will still need meter technicians. We'll need a lead plus one, because we are assuming the responsibility of the meter reading, reporting, re-installation, and meter shutoffs every other week that we currently do.

[30:21] And then right now, you were talking earlier about the enhanced leak detection, is that for the homes too, so if a home potentially has a small leak in there, it's going to notify the resident right.

[30:33] Yeah, every single meter. Yes.

[30:35] Okay, right now we don't have that. That's all spreadsheet wise. Thank you. We're talking. Yes.

[30:40] Did you have something to add?

[30:42] Very quick, because I'll there was a little jerk reaction.

[30:44] I'm sorry.

[30:44] Yeah, no.

[30:46] Just to comment on what you said Mr. Eldridge, there's benefits to both, my recommendation

[30:51] would be to do a duel. So to bring some of it in house and do some of it outhouse to

[30:57] save some money on the larger meters. Also, maybe reaching out to Dyser High School, getting

[31:03] some younger, younger students trained and getting them hands-on training. Since I worked here,

[31:08] we've had three or four technicians that I personally trained, finished trained and they were able

[31:13] get jobs at Peoria and Glendale and sustain and make good living for their family.

[31:19] So there's a lot of that idea.

[31:20] The trade.

[31:21] Internships are something, you know, the long run.

[31:24] And then just so you're aware we did take into consideration the sick time staff training.

[31:29] And I lowered the bar because the normal bar is 15 for other municipalities about 15 changes.

[31:35] And we lowered that by six because we're beginning new staff training weeks, education and that.

[31:40] So we did try to count for that in our initial numbers.

[31:44] There are things I think have done on my questions.

[31:46] I appreciate it.

[31:47] Great.

[31:47] Thank you for your responses.

[31:48] Very quickly.

[31:49] Now there's a new option on the table because I actually very much like that context in that

[31:55] the whole thought process behind doing a tool and especially engaging our young people.

[32:01] There's tremendous benefits in that we can go on and on about that.

[32:05] And so I would personally lean towards that option by also want to make sure that that's

[32:10] by a will option before us?

[32:13] So to answer that question.

[32:16] So the input today is important because it's going to help us structure the RFP to make sure

[32:20] we're hitting those points that you want to hit.

[32:22] So if that's something that we want to look at or possibly put as an option, we'll add that

[32:27] into the request or proposal.

[32:30] Okay.

[32:30] I think I hear Vice Mayor, saying she agrees with that option, is I, I like that option.

[32:35] Vice Mayor, like that option.

[32:37] Are there any other thoughts for them?

[32:39] Councilmember, don't make any of you?

[32:41] I actually had some of the same questions and comments that Councilmember Eldridge had.

[32:46] If we went to the duel and he mentioned the thing about warranty.

[32:52] Is it would it be the same kind of warranty coverage for in-house installations versus vendor installation?

[32:59] I haven't heard anything about warranties on any of this yet, so I'd like that address.

[33:04] So a lot of times depending on the vendor that you go go with to do the install a lot of the times that's not covered.

[33:11] So if a vendor were to install an improper meter on say a hospital or something like that, they're not necessarily liable for that.

[33:18] Now we can build that verbage into the RFP, but it's not something that's very common.

[33:23] So when it comes back whether a vendor's doing it or whether we're doing it, it's going to fall back on us to fix it.

[33:28] And my situation with Phoenix where we did this in the past and the city of Scottsdale and city of surprise when we hired the vendors.

[33:36] The city staff always had to go behind them and make quality control and make sure that everything was up to par and the citizens were taken care of and the meters were installed correctly.

[33:45] Okay, so there's no warranty as far as installation.

[33:49] What kind of warranty is on the actual units themselves? Are we going to be asking for a warranty on the units in a contract?

[33:57] Yes, ma'am. So the industry standard and we can go above this in the RAP, but the industry standard is 10 years full and 10 years pro-rated

[34:07] 20 year warranty

[34:08] But 10 year full and the other 10 is boot be pro-rated

[34:12] So that makes sure that down it goes, it comes off

[34:15] We'll make sure that's in the contract

[34:17] Yes, ma'am

[34:18] Thank you

[34:19] Any other council colleagues?

[34:25] Council McGentering

[34:26] Council meeting

[34:29] for clarification, for the vendor.

[34:32] How many months will it be for the MP do it

[34:34] for, instead of 18 months, if the city does it,

[34:38] 12 to the employee, right?

[34:40] Yeah, thank you, Council Member.

[34:41] So the estimation is a turn key vendor solution

[34:44] would be a right round of year, 12 months.

[34:51] Thank you.

[34:52] What do you question?

[34:52] Thank you so much, Council Member Norton again.

[34:55] So what would, in your estimation,

[34:57] be the difference in the cost?

[35:10] That's a really important question. Probably somewhere between 50-75% of the cost if we do city versus vendor. That's a complete estimation. We have no proposals at this time to base that off of.

[35:25] That would be, let's say based on a typical general contractor overhead of 30% so then you're

[35:33] looking at a 70% cost as opposed to 100% with the vendor.

[35:39] All right.

[35:39] Thank you.

[35:40] Thank you.

[35:40] Before I go over to Council Member Dorsey.

[35:43] I do want to at least say a little bit about the vendor option.

[35:48] I just, my concern is that we are always held accountable by the residents and I want to

[35:53] make sure that we have that ability to, you know, of course, we can hold a vendor accountable

[35:58] to certain extent, but we are not the ones installing things.

[36:01] And so I want to make sure that we have some sort of accountability where we're able to

[36:06] say, wholeheartedly, that we know exactly what was done and how it was done and so that's

[36:11] why I like the dual option by also like the fact that we're still involved if the dual option

[36:17] were to be the winning option.

[36:20] Is there a way to quantify the savings between getting it done in 18 months and getting it done in 12 months?

[36:34] Thank you for the question.

[36:35] Absolutely.

[36:36] There is.

[36:37] I probably can't do that sitting here.

[36:40] I can't.

[36:42] I can barely do five weeks.

[36:45] I'm not asking.

[36:46] I will note that.

[36:46] And then I'll be able to follow up.

[36:48] I mean, I just think that in our considerations when this all comes back.

[36:51] and we're looking at the two different options.

[36:55] I think that could be, I mean, if it's a significant amount of money by getting it done

[37:01] six months ahead of time, then I think that's worth considering, but I didn't know if there

[37:07] was a way to quantify that.

[37:08] So there's an absolutely a way to quantify it, and that'll be part of the consideration

[37:12] on more evaluating proposals.

[37:13] Thank you.

[37:14] I appreciate it.

[37:15] Awesome.

[37:17] All right.

[37:18] No, no.

[37:18] I'm going to have a question.

[37:20] There's two.

[37:20] I'm going to take Council Member Aldridge first, Council Member Gentry, and I'll go to you.

[37:25] I like the idea of having the RFP show, you know, the in-house person in the outhouse.

[37:30] That's really bad.

[37:32] Don't pun intended.

[37:34] So, in sourcing, you know, doing ourselves and having the vendor, that will allow us to see

[37:39] the difference in costs.

[37:39] I think that's where the real numbers are going to come in.

[37:41] And that's where the best decision is going to be made at that point.

[37:44] So, good idea with that.

[37:47] All right.

[37:47] Thank you so much, Council Member Aldridge.

[37:48] Can you take a clarification if we went with the vendor it would be two months and after

[37:58] we went with the vendor and the vendor installed everything if there is an issue the city has to go back out and take care of it for the vendor

[38:09] Thank you for the question so the RFP will specify the warranty that we have out there

[38:16] Which could specify parts plus labor depending on how the RFP is structured. So to answer the question

[38:23] If it's a fully

[38:25] vendor install

[38:27] We'd look to have an industry standard warranty on it. So we'd look to have the vendor install first and come back and replace first

[38:38] So that every time a meter is

[38:41] Knees to be replaced the vendor will be possible for replacement

[38:47] It depends on how the RFP is structured, but it would based on the product warranty and the RFP so possibly.

[38:57] And if there's an issue going on, would they be notified or does the city get notified or both?

[39:03] I'm sorry, I didn't quite hear the first part of that question. If there is an

[39:10] issue with a meter and say the vendor installs it and we have an issue.

[39:17] Are we the first ones to get notified or would they be the first ones to get notified because we have employees would have to go out there and see what is happening with the meters before their contacted is that kind of how the structure is going to be.

[39:32] So the structure will be the the city will get notification if there's an issue with a meter.

[39:41] And then we'll have one of our employees go out and check it for the vendor or if we went that route.

[39:46] So without getting too into the weeds on the question, it really depends on the issue that

[39:52] what arise. If it's something simple, it might be city staff, but if it is a

[39:58] replacement that's needed.

[40:00] It could be a vendor.

[40:05] And do we have any numbers regarding the amount if how much it would be for the vendor? Oh, and how much it would

[40:11] cost for the temp and the employees? We do not have a number for that at this time.

[40:21] Okay. Thank you.

[40:22] All right. Thanks so much.

[40:28] I have a question, did I hear that you were making a comment if city staff installs the

[40:36] meters and if I did hear that correctly does that no one void or affect the warranty?

[40:42] Because sometimes when you have somebody else mess with a unit that's not yours, sorry,

[40:47] the judge. It will often affect the warranties. So that was my question.

[40:54] Thank you for the question. So as was stated, yes, if it's a city installed meter, obviously the installation is not covered under warranty, but the product may be. If it's installed by a vendor, the RFP may specify that the vendor warranties the installation. Does that answer the question?

[41:17] Yes, I mean, because we need to make sure that, you know, our residents and all of us are protected, you know, regarding the warranties, so I appreciate that.

[41:27] Thank you so much. All right. Was that enough discussion for the conversation for you to move forward? Okay, sounds good.

[41:35] All right, then I believe there is no other business to discuss for this work session. I'm going to call this work session to an adjournment.

[41:42] we are adjourned at 545pm.

[41:44] Thank you so much for all of the information and the support.

[41:46] We really appreciate you guys.

[41:47] Yes.

[41:47] All right.

City Council Work Session - 09/01/2026

Agenda

Transcript