[0:02] Great. Thank you all. Um, welcome to the finance committee meeting

[0:07] on Monday, August 24th. Uh,

[0:13] first of all, just wanted to uh note uh thank you to Chris for jumping on board

[0:18] here and uh drinking from the fire hose. It's been a very illuminating few weeks

[0:24] and I think one of it validates I know with a lot of the team members that

[0:27] you've met with already who've been um really enjoyed your conversations and I

[0:33] think what stands out to me most is taking kind of a systems level approach

[0:36] to where we're at and you know not just you know getting the blocking and

[0:41] tackling done which is one piece but we have to you know have a systems

[0:46] integration a systems design um that's beyond the people that are here and It's

[0:51] been, you know, probably six years coming with this, but I really feel like

[0:54] we're on the right track um based on our conversations to get things back into

[0:59] best-in-class uh in the city of Ellsworth, which is a fundamental

[1:02] responsibility for us. So, um really looking forward to more and I know you

[1:06] have more updates later on, so I won't um step over your pieces. Uh I'd also

[1:12] like to know I had some discussions with our police chief. We have a uh an event,

[1:17] a Labor Day event on Monday here at city hall that's going to require potentially

[1:21] a significant amount of police overtime. We've checked into this before on sort

[1:25] of reimbursements for groups like this. Um because when private organizations

[1:31] require police time, we we typically have a reimbursement policy for that.

[1:36] Um, but those which are more in the free speech category, political category. Um,

[1:41] there's less of cl legal clarity on being able to be reimbursed for that. I

[1:45] know we don't have this as much as some other cities and towns. It's become a

[1:49] huge line item, but I'd like to get a little more visibility into how much

[1:52] this is costing us. So, I've asked the chief to get me a breakdown um and, you

[1:57] know, to at least make a request that there's a reimbursement for the police

[2:00] resources that the city of Ellsworth is is covering here. I think that's one of

[2:04] the service center issues that we come into. I'm sure there'll be a ton of

[2:08] people here in Ellsworth that are not from Ellsworth. Uh but the police

[2:12] resources that are being paid for this are exclusively on the taxpayers of of

[2:16] Ellsworth. So it's um there's not I don't think too much we can do about it,

[2:21] but at least we can be visible about what the cost is and at least try to get

[2:25] some reimbursement. >> So all the officers that are serving on

[2:29] that day or time and a half >> time and a half, correct? It's a Yeah.

[2:32] Labor Day holiday. So, um, and they're going to have to be more brought in for

[2:36] it. So, >> I don't think that is correct.

[2:39] » What's that? >> I think Labor Day

[2:43] » is double time. >> Oh, double time. Yeah.

[2:46] » Let me let me check. >> Typically, that's what

[2:54] they get. Holiday pay. >> And I asked the chief to give me a a

[2:58] rundown of what the costs are going to be here. So I'm assuming in that it'll

[3:01] be a breakdown of that. >> Is that is that all holidays

[3:06] » if they work it? I believe. >> Okay.

[3:12] » That's something to look into. >> Yeah, for sure.

[3:14] » Make sure >> for clarity. Uh I believe Labor Day is

[3:17] double pay plus the holiday pay. Some people call it triple pay, but the

[3:22] holiday pay was going to exist regardless.

[3:25] » The holiday pay bakes in whether you work it or not.

[3:29] » Yeah. And I think that's >> so it's a little confusing in my world

[3:31] or in other people's world as well that the Labor Day pay is going to I believe

[3:36] is a paid holiday and then you have double time because it's a holiday.

[3:41] » So the chief's getting me a financial rundown of of what that'll be.

[3:45] » Um >> and I'm also meeting with them this

[3:47] week. So >> great.

[3:48] » I'll have my own question. Uh and now we'll switch to uh a

[3:53] discussion with Mike Works on updating costs for the Bridge Hill repair and

[3:57] updating the repair. And just like to say, you know, thank you to the

[4:01] community for their patience here. We um our teams have been working diligently

[4:05] on it since everybody was out there until late in the evening when it first

[4:08] happened getting it repaired and stabilized so our hospitals and

[4:13] businesses can continue to operate with water in the next days. Thank you to all

[4:16] the work you guys did to to make that happen. and then all the additional work

[4:20] you're doing now to get repaired in that um that intersection back up to snuff.

[4:25] » Yep. So, um

[4:29] Northeast Paving is up there right now. Uh they're starting to grind the road.

[4:33] Um and then it should be they should be

[4:39] paving by the end of today, maybe tomorrow, and expect to be done paving

[4:44] Wednesday. So, we would expect the road to be open

[4:47] either Wednesday afternoon or Thursday morning for normal traffic.

[4:52] » And that that's u removing the hot top down the gravel.

[4:57] » Yep. >> Fixing the base and then going back with

[5:00] two two and it compaction lifts. Yep. >> Yep. Uh compaction and then 2 and 1/2 in

[5:08] of base, 2 in of intermediate, inch and a half of surface. So, six inches of

[5:12] total pavement going back. which is from the DOT.

[5:19] » That's what the DOT sent out. >> And can you talk a little bit more? At

[5:23] the last council meeting, we had a discussion on um DOT and should we leave

[5:30] it as gravel for a little while till see if there's any other breaks? And what

[5:34] was the response to that? >> Response was the same. Um,

[5:39] like I said in the council meeting, if this was a road that we could leave

[5:42] closed and shut down to settle for a couple weeks, then that would be um a

[5:50] good strategy. But with this particular road, especially opening it back up to

[5:53] traffic, you have several hazards that you would incur during that. One of

[5:58] which is if we have a big rainstorm, all that gravel is going to go away. The

[6:02] second of which is if big trucks are trying to slow down on that hill, which

[6:05] is a pretty steep grade on gravel, that's usually not a good thing either.

[6:10] I spoke to John Tero at the DOT. He concurred. Um his response again was fix

[6:16] it as soon as possible. So that's what we're doing.

[6:22] » Great. And then in terms of cost comparison for the roads compared to

[6:26] what our previous like price for paving and whatnot, um have you been able to do

[6:31] analysis of that? >> No, but this it came the price they gave

[6:35] us came in a lot further under than we thought it was going to. We thought it

[6:40] was going to be around 200 250 came in at 125.

[6:45] » And then the eventual funding mechanism for this what do you

[6:48] » Yep. So, what I would like to do is be up to the council, but we um pulled a um

[6:55] bond, the water department pulled a bond back in 2023, 2024 for the Oak Street

[7:01] water main to be replaced during the DOT's rebuilding of Oak Street, which

[7:05] was supposed to happen this year and has now been delayed at least two years.

[7:12] 2028, I think, is when they have it on the work plan to do engineering. and

[7:15] then uh you still have to go through the engineering piece. So, it probably

[7:19] wouldn't even get started until 29 or 30. Um that bond is is an actual bond.

[7:26] It's not a ban. It's been taken out. The bond bank wants us to draw it down.

[7:30] We've explained to them that we can't draw it down yet because the project's

[7:34] not taking place. Um, so I would like to um come to the council and ask for

[7:41] reallocation of that money to um pay for this project and possibly

[7:47] other stuff that the water has coming up um so that we can satisfy the bond bank,

[7:54] not just have that money sitting around while we're waiting for DOT to finally

[7:59] get going on Oak Street. >> Okay. Okay. So, we'll come back with the

[8:05] to the council the financing plan with this. There's a bit of road capital

[8:11] funding that could potentially cover this in reserve account.

[8:13] » Yeah. I mean, we have some reserve money, too. We have

[8:17] Yes, we do have some other monies that we could use for it. Um, and if that's

[8:22] the choice, that's the choice. I'm just like there's I think that bond is like a

[8:27] million plus and it's just been the bond bank has been communicating with us

[8:32] wondering when we're going to start drawing it down and we told them um but

[8:39] um doesn't make sense to sit on it for 3 years if we have immediate projects that

[8:44] could we could use it for without hitting the user initially hitting the

[8:49] users or the taxpayers.

[8:55] Um, Mike and I talked about getting together. I mean, this is a whole set of

[9:01] stuff in terms of funds and needs and whatever. And this is one of my but one

[9:07] of my many but kind of burning priorities. So, we're going to get

[9:10] together I thought Wednesday. >> Um, he's bringing his folks including

[9:14] the Woodard and Curran folks. >> Yep. just like get a handle on what it

[9:19] is and I think we can come up with some reasonable options there. So, great.

[9:27] » Any questions for Mike from council? >> I'd like to go on record in saying this.

[9:34] If you've already made arrangements with a bond

[9:38] bank for a particular project and you're going to use it for a

[9:43] different project, um, that's not lining up liabilities

[9:48] with assets. And I'm here to tell you that that is

[9:53] one dangerous move. You're lying to ourselves and lying to the city of

[10:00] Ellsworth. If we say if we're going to borrow money with a

[10:06] different liability and move that money because the liability is not here yet,

[10:11] we're lying to ourselves. That's a very dangerous situation. Extremely

[10:16] dangerous. If we don't need the money for that project, then

[10:24] that needs not to be drawn down. We need to face our real problems upfront and

[10:30] not hide them and push that two years down the road. When that project comes

[10:35] and says, "Oh, well, we use the money for something else." That's not going to

[10:39] look very good. We need to identify the need for the money. If you and pay for

[10:47] that or borrow it with that as the liability lined up. So you have asset

[10:52] liability, repair surprise liability. We can't be doing that maneuver of borrow

[11:01] money for this intent and spend it for this intent.

[11:09] You we've already encumbered that money or funding for the Oak Street project

[11:16] » for the water man. Yeah. >> Yeah. And

[11:22] I wouldn't change it. The we should be having the engineering

[11:27] done on our water line and what needs to be replaced and do that. Get ready for

[11:32] that before they actually do everything else.

[11:38] » You see what I mean? >> Yeah. Question is, are they ever going

[11:41] to do it? When you [clears throat and cough] when you when

[11:45] you when when we the state does road projects, they want everything under the

[11:50] ground taken care of, whether it's uh power, communication,

[11:56] uh water, sewer, drainage. That it's like making sure your foundation of your

[12:01] house done first and done right and prevents deals where now we got to

[12:10] tear up pavement. That's like painting your house and inside and everything and

[12:14] deciding, well, I'm going to put in a picture window,

[12:19] less than a year later. It It's or like for people who deal with

[12:24] automobiles and stuff, it's like painting your car, making it look real

[12:28] pretty, and then pulling the engine out, and then being pissed off because you've

[12:33] scratched the paint. There's other ways to fund that.

[12:39] We haven't encumbered. we we we we decide we're going to give money to

[12:44] nonprofits, why don't we just use shift those funds around and it's a less

[12:49] burden on the taxpayers because either way you look at it, they're going to

[12:54] spend the money. These are all things that I've been telling people about.

[12:59] Those things that are hidden under the ground, I wish I had X-ray vision. I

[13:02] could go around and tell you exactly what's going to happen.

[13:06] No sense kicking the can down the road, you know. and it it doesn't make

[13:12] financial sense. You you've got these liabilities,

[13:17] you got these repairs, and you got all of this stuff. It needs to equal out.

[13:22] It's like balancing your checkbook, balancing your budget for your

[13:25] household. Any

[13:31] questions for my >> um the band bond that we have for this

[13:36] Oak Street project is it and excuse my ignorance on the subject but because it

[13:42] now is forecasted to happen far into the future if it happens when it happens. Um

[13:49] can we can we return the ban bond? Can we cancel that and

[13:56] and then figure out a different way to fund this

[14:01] Bridge Hill project? I'm just curious about this band bond. Is it going to sit

[14:05] there until Oak Street happens or what do we do in a in a scenario like

[14:12] this where a project gets canceled or kicked down the roads?

[14:16] » I don't know. >> I'd like to know why we borrowed the

[14:19] money before we needed it. Because the project was supposed to like

[14:25] I said happen this year was supposed to be

[14:29] constructed. So they would have done the engineering in previous years and they

[14:34] wanted to include the water man which was before my tenure as

[14:39] public works director. Um, and so the thought process was that we

[14:45] [clears throat] take out a bond to be able to do it as

[14:48] part of the DOT project so it would cost less money to do the water man while the

[14:52] road was being dug up. And nobody knew that the DOT was going to

[14:58] delay the project indefinitely. Basically, they're saying

[15:02] that they're looking at possibly engineering it in 28, but that

[15:08] it's one of those things where the DOT from year to year, just like this year,

[15:13] they cancelled $400 million worth of projects and then they putund and

[15:17] something million back on the books, but the other ones are just put off until

[15:21] whenever because their funding's right up.

[15:25] » Sir, do you remember this? Was this the CDS one? I remember we had like a bunch

[15:28] of infrastructure things change and there was a designation

[15:33] um year and a half ago or so um that I think might have been part of this one

[15:38] as well. So there was yeah the expectation was main DOT was going to

[15:42] move in do the infrastructure change um you know had a little bit more clarity

[15:46] about what this was going to be. I can't remember.

[15:48] » We still have a storm a huge storm water project that we also received millions

[15:54] of dollars for that is going forward because it's independent of

[16:00] the DOT project to fix the storm water lines from Oak

[16:06] Street to the river, the two major trunk lines. So that when the DOT project was

[16:12] done, which they intent when they were supposed to construct it was to put in

[16:16] new um a whole new under underground storm drain system, but our storm drains

[16:23] weren't adequate to hook into their new storm drains that we're going to put in.

[16:27] So, um,

[16:30] we are engaged in right now, I think we're pretty close to final design for,

[16:39] um, rehabbing both main trunk lines that come from Oak

[16:44] Street, one down through the parking lot of city hall, and one down over to the

[16:48] river over here to be ready to

[16:54] connect to the new storm drains. things that they put in when they finally

[16:58] decide to do Oak Street. So that project is

[17:02] also underway. >> So the essentially there was a

[17:10] a plan for DOT to spend and do this project. It made sense to do it at the

[17:14] same time. >> We saw bond authorization and this this

[17:16] bond hasn't been drawn down. This has just been applied for and

[17:19] » like I said, they're asking us >> um so they're now getting to an

[17:22] expiration timeline. So, we'll come back to the council on if there's um

[17:29] interest in doing a reapplication or if there's interest in just letting this uh

[17:35] hit an expiration time frame and we reapply once that project has a little

[17:38] more clarity on when it's going to need funding. But, we'll do a little more

[17:42] work on it. just financially I I just need to come up to speed on it because

[17:48] um a lot of moving pieces but you know unlike maybe some of the other

[17:52] departments in the town these are very big bets uh these are these are dollars

[17:58] that make a huge difference so I just need to understand what it is what was

[18:02] the purpose I think there are some legitimate questions raised here what

[18:07] were they for is that still valid and even if by the way you get awarded a

[18:12] million bucks based upon a scoping from a year ago, two years ago. If you delay

[18:17] that project three or four years, are those costs still valid? Maybe it's not

[18:21] even funded adequately right now. Anyway,

[18:25] I and I I think we have enough whatever we have enough brain power around the

[18:30] table and we we'll make good decisions, but I I need to know what it is first.

[18:35] » Yeah. And I'm a little you know, there's an aspect this is unexpected. Um we want

[18:40] to move forward but um and figure out a good way

[18:45] to finance it. But I also have you know I know um the backdrop is a good

[18:50] example. I remember when I was researching original bonds, um, that

[18:54] thing I think was in three different bonds

[18:57] and >> it got reallocated every time,

[18:59] » reallocated to other things every single time over a six-year period of time and

[19:04] you know, I think our latest bond cycle included the backdrop, included the road

[19:08] repairs, included other things and sticking to when that initial order is

[19:12] and then what the projects are. Um, sure, in an ideal world, if there's

[19:16] reallocation, tons of public transparency, here's to your point,

[19:19] Steve, here's how it lines up. But I think to your point, Chris, on the

[19:24] financial turnaround and getting our ducks in a row, until that happens, we

[19:28] probably shouldn't just be reallocating from one to the other and then how it

[19:30] gets processed and paperworked over until we have the system for all that in

[19:34] place, too. >> Can you remind me what the Bridgeill

[19:39] project is expected to cost? >> 125,000.

[19:43] » Okay. Thank you.

[19:48] So, one more point to that. If the city can't afford

[19:54] $125,000 problem and you have to finance that

[19:59] problem, that's one thing.

[20:05] but burying it in other loans that five years from today hopefully it's paid off

[20:12] but or three years from today when there's different people sitting at this

[20:16] table um we need good paperwork good paperwork

[20:20] makes good friends and you've got to have debt lined up with use and I can't

[20:26] say that enough um this is equivalent to financing

[20:32] today's lunch if we have to finance today's lunch, that's fine. That's where

[20:36] we're at. But we don't want to be there 10 years from now. And the more of a

[20:41] mess we make today, the more of a mess we're going to have 10 years from now.

[20:49] Thank you, Mike.

[20:55] Now we'll go to uh Scott Gillo, fire chief for an update and cost discussion

[21:00] on the firetruck repair. >> Good morning. Could I stop you just for

[21:04] a second? >> Yes, sir.

[21:05] » I'd like to compliment you for bringing this to this committee and making this

[21:11] transparent before you need the money. What I read from here, you see you might

[21:17] need the money and you're telling us now because you're burning up some of your

[21:21] budget which was unforeseen for that. I think that is incredibly good. You're

[21:28] coming and telling the story before

[21:33] the story needs to be addressed and thank you very much.

[21:37] » Welcome. >> So, get to your point, uh, part of this,

[21:43] uh, at the city manager's request, he did want me to come forward with this.

[21:46] Uh, he and I have had some discussions about where we're at. Squad five, um,

[21:52] let me back trace this a little bit. In previous years, the city did not have a

[21:56] city mechanic and we outsourced every vehicle repair um to local vendors.

[22:04] Um there's a huge cost that goes with that and the city uh brought on a city

[22:08] mechanic to help balance some of that cost out. Now, there are some things

[22:11] that the city mechanic just can't do. Um when it comes to fire apparatus, he's

[22:16] not a pump mechanic. He's a diesel mechanic. He can handle everything

[22:19] that's related to the chassis and the diesel portions of the fire truck. But

[22:23] when it comes to the pumps and the aerial ladder, that exceeds what his

[22:28] capability is. So, we do have to use thirdparty vendors. Um, we try to stay

[22:33] local when we can. However, I'll use ladder one for example. That's a

[22:37] specialty item that's got to go all the way down to Lewon to get its repairs

[22:42] done. U, so coming up today to today's date, the

[22:46] city mechanic now does all the vehicle inspections for uh our apparatus here in

[22:51] the city. Um, in doing so, Squad 5 went to have its vehicle inspection done and

[22:57] it failed predominantly due to suspension work both front and rear. Um,

[23:03] the initial cost quotes that I got was around $10,000. I had a quick discussion

[23:07] with uh the city manager. It is an emergency repair. We cannot not have

[23:12] this truck on the road. It's already been off the road now for three weeks.

[23:16] Um, so we have the parts. The parts are coming in. The truck's supposed to go

[23:20] into the city mechanic on August 31st to get its work done and get it taken care

[23:25] of. Um the additional cost obviously is we have tires that we have to buy and

[23:30] all that stuff to bring it up to speed and then I'll have to go get its

[23:34] alignment done over at uh Cwell service. So um so good portion of that as you saw

[23:39] in the breakdown for what we spent already is about $10,000 that has

[23:44] already been spent into our budget. Ladder one's going to have to go out for

[23:48] repairs. Um, we have annual certification testing for that ladder.

[23:54] Uh, it's got to go down and have work done on the hydraulic system because

[23:57] there's a uh there's a recirculation problem and it's contaminating and

[24:01] leaking. Uh, at the same time, we have an electrical issue with the uh power

[24:06] supply that runs the entire length of that 75 ft ladder to the tip. So, it's

[24:11] going to go down to Lewon and it's going to have that work done so it can pass

[24:13] its annual certification test. Uh if we didn't do that, the the city of

[24:18] Ellsworth would not have a ladder truck immediately available.

[24:22] That's going to cost around $7,000 to do. We just got the quote here on Friday

[24:26] uh on Friday, um which is part of the uh if you read through your packet, you'll

[24:31] see it's included in that packet. Um again, I think the biggest picture that

[24:37] we're trying to paint is this is not a lack of maintenance. Um you guys are

[24:42] here in the morning for finance committee. You guys are here uh other

[24:46] days during the week and you hear it. These guys are out here every single day

[24:50] doing their pre-trip inspections on the truck and making sure they're ready for

[24:53] service every single day. They're finding these problems every single day.

[24:58] We have an aging fleet. And that's what that's basically what this is telling us

[25:02] is we have an aging fleet. We're working on it. It's identified in the CIP. We've

[25:06] worked very very hard to identify a long-term plan to set up a replacement

[25:12] schedule for all our apparatus. Uh but I think the story today is is we allocated

[25:18] $65,000 to the annual budget for this year. We felt that that was right in

[25:23] line. We did not anticipate spending close to $20,000 right in the first

[25:29] quarter of the year. Um so really uh we want to come before you. We're not

[25:34] asking for any additional money. Uh we're going to keep our eye on this. We

[25:38] have some other stuff that we have to do o over the next couple of months that

[25:41] we're have to do every single year. Pump testing, uh, service service things that

[25:47] we do with the pumps and things like that. Um, but we're going to keep an eye

[25:51] on it very closely. Uh, and I'll stay in contact with the finance director as we

[25:56] get through to December and we can start to project out where we're going to be.

[26:00] My hopes are is that

[26:05] with the sale with engine two going into reserve in the spring, uh we may see

[26:09] some of that go some of those costs go away. Um

[26:14] it's really hard to predict when a truck's going to fail. Uh and that's the

[26:17] hard part. Um, but I think the fact that these guys are doing carrot maintenance

[26:22] every single day, um, they're working aggressively with the city mechanic to

[26:27] get work done via the city mechanic to keep the labor cost down on our overall

[26:31] budget. Um, that's really the state of affair for

[26:35] the fire department right now when it comes to the vehicle budget.

[26:40] » I I feel your pain. I've I used to be a heavy equipment mechanic, so I've worked

[26:46] on stuff bigger than this. And the and trucks, it it's they're so easy. They

[26:53] they get picked apart really really bad, you know, and they need to be safe.

[26:58] Okay. Um so, but you we use them. They're going to wear out. They need to

[27:05] be taken care of. And uh kudos. I like this. you brought all this information

[27:11] to us. So, you're you're you're giving us fair warning that if some more issues

[27:19] come up, it's going to we're going to have to reallocate some money for you.

[27:24] So, and and it's also sending me a signal

[27:30] that um we only have one city mechanic.

[27:38] We need to have two, >> possibly three because agree with you

[27:44] » because in my mind >> I [snorts and clears throat] used to

[27:48] have to juggle on which stuff needed to get done and what superintendent

[27:52] actually needed because I was only one and when can I pull more resources from

[27:57] the company to to accomplish what I have to do. Obviously, there was some job

[28:02] sites that kind of got pushed back a little bit, but still you, you know, if

[28:10] you're doing a rare, you know, doing a water line crossing or sewer line

[28:14] crossing on under a railroad or a major artery, h this little job's going to

[28:19] have to take take a break. And I'd communicate that with my my shop foreman

[28:24] equipment superintendent. So, with that, we only have one

[28:29] mechanic. So hopefully they understand that you're more of a priority.

[28:35] » Public works has been working well with us. I think Mike would agree. We have

[28:38] one city mechanic. He's task saturated in a short department.

[28:42] » Mhm. >> They're short manpower. So um he has to

[28:45] prioritize uh apparatus and what needs to come in first. And sometimes we get

[28:49] ahead of the line and sometimes we have to wait depending on what vehicle it is.

[28:53] However, um I think I would agree with your sentiments. We we have one mechanic

[28:58] trying to take care of a city worth of heavy vehicles.

[29:01] » Yes. All the equipment. Uh they he they should be also working on the city owned

[29:07] police cruises which are liability. [clears throat]

[29:10] You know it it you know you can't it doesn't pay to

[29:16] lease fire trucks because we're not the same as every other

[29:23] municipality. We're unique. We're different. We have We are the largest

[29:29] city in area in the state of Maine. There's a lot of areas you got to go. A

[29:35] lot of the equipment you have are different from the surrounding towns,

[29:39] municipalities, and the counties. Okay. So,

[29:44] yeah. Um, thank you for bringing this.

[29:50] And I I don't like surprises. [laughter] Unfortunately, you deal with a lot of

[29:55] surprises, you know what I mean? And I don't like you, you know, I feel bad

[29:58] that you get surprised. I >> I don't think any there's any one of us

[30:02] like having to be reactive. >> So,

[30:05] » preventive maintenance is a lot better than demand maintenance. That's why you

[30:09] run into a lot of money when you have breakdowns that are not anticipated.

[30:16] If I could weigh in a little bit more on that, um I would like to say this that

[30:23] certainly one mechanic for the amount of power units that the city owns um seem a

[30:31] bit light given that there's one mechanic.

[30:36] I think there needs to be a balance of where am I in the queue for our mechanic

[30:43] to outsource this and get this thing fixed now because before you know it

[30:48] you'll have a garage full of stuff with a cue uh of repairs and time is ticking

[30:57] and I think there is uh a balance there. Hey, I've got this problem. And just to

[31:03] interject, trucks have a certain way of looking into your

[31:11] checkbook when

[31:14] when it's the lowest it could be and presenting you with a surprise. I have

[31:22] lived that life my entire life. And when you're in the roughest shape is when the

[31:27] biggest problems show up. And there has to be a balance there. We can't just

[31:33] queue up on one guy. Um we can't um sometimes the $170,

[31:41] I don't know what you're paying for labor. Let's say it's $175 an hour. That

[31:47] guy works on that every day and he can do it in three hours. and the guy that

[31:52] is a a broad guy um that touches everything, it may take him eight hours

[32:00] because there's a learning curve there. And I think that that has to be weighed

[32:04] um and it gets back to um the cost of public works, fire

[32:11] department, and police. Charlie and I disagree, but I think that

[32:18] those are very, very important. And I think those are hard to judge and those

[32:25] departments are all catchall departments, especially public works.

[32:30] And it's hard to budget for a group of aging trucks. It's also hard to budget

[32:37] for downtime on new trucks. You can't win. Um, and cuz brand new trucks

[32:45] have their own sets of problems in the last 10 years with all the

[32:48] environmental. >> So, it's it's very difficult. Um, and I

[32:56] I I think that what I'm hearing is great, but I also think that we really

[33:00] need to figure um there is a cost in creating a long

[33:06] waiting line. And I think there has to be a balance there. Even if your budget

[33:10] is messed up by November, I think there has to be a budget of preparedness. And

[33:15] I don't have to tell you about preparedness, but I if we wait for our

[33:20] mechanic, um you may be waiting a long time and your bill next year will be

[33:26] even more unpredictable.

[33:30] » Let me just say a couple quick. When uh councelor was talking about peering into

[33:34] your checkbook, I thought you were going to talk about my kids uh not not trucks.

[33:38] my little one. I I think she's looking in my wallet right now. [laughter]

[33:44] Um, [snorts] you know, I've only been here a couple

[33:47] weeks, but I would be the only only thing I would uh maybe uh I'm not sure I

[33:53] totally agree is that in my brief tenure here, I'm not sure I've met one person

[34:00] who doesn't agree that these departments are the the core of the city. Um, and to

[34:06] that point, uh, and I've I've spent reasonable amount of time, and I'm going

[34:11] to spend more time in the next even just couple weeks, we're going to spend some

[34:14] focus time together. Um, I've been uh not only impressed, impressed is too

[34:20] light a word, but I I guess maybe almost moved uh their commitment and their

[34:25] creativeness and resourcefulness to keep things moving forward because

[34:30] they are the point of the spear uh in terms of you know safety and the public

[34:35] trust and our infrastructure and whatever. um given their resource

[34:40] constraints. And from that standpoint, I I want to say, you know, I I haven't

[34:43] been here that long, but a lot of what they're talking about is on me, frankly,

[34:48] is the way I look at it. Um cuz underlying all this stuff, they're

[34:52] talking about having to stand on their head to make it work. Whether it's

[34:58] servicing, keeping the vehicles on the road with insufficient

[35:03] uh mechanics and resources and whatever. How do I get these roads open? How do

[35:08] you keep the water moving and whatever? I feel like the clock is ticking and

[35:13] it's on me because they they've how many different ways can they say the

[35:18] infrastructure needs work. It's old. It's aging. And I think you guys have

[35:23] also raised a great point that you know we just can't constantly play

[35:26] whack-a-ole financially. So once I can figure out where are we and what do we

[35:32] got then how do we actually together how do we plan ahead enough that we can come

[35:38] around this table and say hey how do we actually get a handle and project out

[35:41] ahead to get ahead of this infrastructure problem because otherwise

[35:46] these guys are always going to be you know uh scrambling around we're going to

[35:50] be price takers in the market taxpayers are going to overpay at the end of the

[35:53] day so I I feel a lot of uh I don't know I'm impressed but I feel a lot of

[35:59] empathy and and at the end of the day, I just want you to know that I hear you

[36:03] and I feel like some of this is on me. I have to work with you financially to

[36:06] make it possible for you to do your job because uh I think they're doing amazing

[36:11] uh with what they've got. So, >> yeah, I know we have to get to your

[36:15] piece too, but I I would not agree with that characterization that we disagree

[36:19] on the importance of police and fire. I think um

[36:25] you council Aller and that's you've made that accusation twice now once the

[36:29] previous city council meeting [clears throat] um I think you warned me

[36:34] not to talk about the cost of these things and I I want to make a huge

[36:37] distinction um I don't think the city of Ellsworth should not continue to invest

[36:42] in its police fire and infrastructure 1% I feel like as chief mentioned and

[36:50] public works as well is in that category um are going to need a lot more

[36:53] investment with the amount of growth that we have in this city moving

[36:57] forward. What is important though is that we actually talk about it um and we

[37:01] acknowledge the cost um and what it is. And for when before when I arrived here,

[37:06] I was pretty shocked. You see it in the 2024 audit on a $600,000 cost overrun on

[37:12] the public safety department in FY24. um and [clears throat] talking to our HR

[37:19] director that there was no budgeting for overtime um taxes. We were paying it,

[37:23] but we weren't budgeting for it. So, a lot of the last three years or three

[37:27] budget cycles of my job has been trying to true cost these pieces. Uh it was a

[37:32] $600,000 increase in the police and fire departments and dispatched this year. Um

[37:38] you know, by leaps and bounds, our largest increase. Um and that's without

[37:42] adding additional police officers or firefighters this year. And the previous

[37:46] year we added two firefighters and uh a police officer and a dispatcher. The

[37:50] year prior to that we added two firefighters, we added a police officer

[37:55] as well. Um we did and prior to that there was a lot of disinvestment in

[38:01] infrastructure, decades of probably disinvestment because that was the one

[38:05] thing that didn't get pulled. Um so these things are extremely expensive.

[38:09] has also made big investments in public works um both in equipment wise, both in

[38:14] roads, both in repairs. Um but I want to make a very big distinction between

[38:18] talking about the costs of those areas and what's driving the lion share of the

[38:24] tax increases to the citizens of Ellsworth. um and the unfairness of

[38:28] state revenue sharing reimbursements um in taking care of so much public

[38:34] safety infrastructure need for a huge service center that is for 80,000 people

[38:39] and only has 9,000 taxpayers. Um it's a very big issue, but I um am very big on

[38:45] the importance of our police, fire, and public safety teams um and very much

[38:51] appreciate the work they do. Chris Am I Am I up?

[38:58] » Oh, yeah. [laughter] Now,

[39:01] » you don't have to You don't have to say it like that.

[39:05] » All right. Well, I appreciate it. again. Um, you know, I'm new and, um,

[39:11] so again, uh, this week, some of these will

[39:15] be a little more qualitative than I'd like, but, um, and I'll talk about kind

[39:20] of my timeline, but I'd like to be more and more quantitative, frankly, as as I

[39:25] go. Just a quick update, uh, from last time. Um, I don't know if you uh had a

[39:31] chance to watch or come up to speed in terms of any of that, but I just talked

[39:35] about some of my initial observations and priorities uh from my first week,

[39:39] which was, you know, I've got a I inherited a laundry list of uh burning

[39:44] platform to-dos for finance just to keep the plane in the air. That I looked at

[39:49] it again uh this morning when I came in and uh it's 162 line items long of stuff

[39:55] that needs to be fixed. Um, it is what it is. It It's fine. It's, you know, not

[40:00] my first rodeo in terms of turnaround. So, I'm not scared of that. But, um,

[40:05] I'll talk about some of the implications of that in a second, but there's there's

[40:08] a bunch of stuff just keep from playing in the air. Then I said, uh, for me to

[40:12] be comfortable and and have just one night of good sleep, I need to

[40:16] understand what we have as a town from a financial perspective. Um, and I'll talk

[40:22] about that in a second. Um then I said uh I we got to get ahead just like we're

[40:27] talking about here in terms of the infrastructure and what are the what's

[40:30] the financial picture to make this a more workable sustainable situation. Um

[40:38] we got to get ahead of what we need. So we can't constantly be reactive. We'll

[40:43] always have to call audles uh because that's the nature of life. But uh we

[40:47] need to plan forward I think because otherwise financially it's very

[40:51] difficult to respond. So, understand what we need. Then I said my next series

[40:56] of things I need to look at is what I call plug in the bucket. Let's just

[41:00] assume for a second that we had enough water coming in the bucket. We're

[41:04] spilling a lot of water out of the bottom, but where is it? And so I'll

[41:08] I'll talk about what I'm doing in terms of that then unclogging the spigot. And

[41:13] by that I meant that um if we're not

[41:19] capitalizing like Charlie mentioned for instance state reimbursements is

[41:23] something that you know maybe we're not we're not we're not getting great

[41:27] service from the state in terms of reimbursements whatever but unless we're

[41:31] able to capitalize on on that type of stuff that's nonpropy tax revenue what I

[41:37] think of as revenue diversification then the only only lever we have left is

[41:42] property taxes and I just don't think that that's fair.

[41:46] So, um unclogging the spigot in terms of revenue diversification was the next

[41:51] one. Then I want to come to you with a uh some suggestions or some scenarios

[41:56] around what's the plan when you rub all that stuff together.

[42:00] What can we actually afford? And and more importantly, what can we say no to

[42:04] um that's not in that plan? And then the last one I just said was honoring the

[42:08] trust. So, I'll talk about those in a second. Um to get really tactical just

[42:13] for a second, my number one burning thing apart from the 162 uh items is uh

[42:20] the bank reconciliation in and that is the that's ground zero in terms of you

[42:25] know my point around understanding what we have is bank wreck. Um I was supposed

[42:30] to get it last week. Um I won't go into all the the gory detail on that but

[42:35] right now I'm supposed to get it on Wednesday. We have a webinar set up with

[42:41] the consultant that we've been using on that. So, we'll see on that. Um,

[42:47] meanwhile, between now and then, I'm also been working uh with our team to do

[42:51] some pre-work so that we're ready to not only digest it, but then we're going to

[42:56] take it over. And I want to be able for us to assume the bank reconciliation

[43:01] going forward because keep in mind that when we get it,

[43:05] this consultant is reconciling um to end of December end of June uh

[43:14] 2025, meaning that it's still it's still a

[43:18] year behind and and bank wreck I again if you have questions I'm happy to

[43:23] answer them, but um you know I've done all kinds of different typ types of

[43:27] reconciliation for mostly for big companies and then since I moved to

[43:31] Maine for a bunch of midsize and small small businesses whatever um everything

[43:36] from you know companies doing financials and Excel to then a little bigger you

[43:40] know Quickbooks to JD Edwards for Midcap and then there's SAP and Oracle you know

[43:45] for the big companies um municipal bank wreck and and forgive me you guys

[43:50] probably know this but it's a it's a different animal in terms of complexity

[43:54] because it's not just GAP accounting but you got GAP ASBY you got different

[43:58] acrruel uh models you got government non-government accounts we got fund

[44:04] accounting of which on the government side you got five we got two enterprise

[44:07] accounts we got fiduciary uh accounts uh so those are all considered financially

[44:12] anyway those are obviously entities um then you got we got

[44:18] different cash accounts even looking at the bank to understand how many accounts

[44:22] do we have at the bank then you got investment accounts etc it's a different

[44:26] kettle fish. The problem with that is the further we get behind the harder it

[44:31] is. So, I am desperate not only to get it, I

[44:36] mean, Wednesday is a big day uh for us, but more importantly, how do we take it

[44:42] over and how do we catch up because otherwise we're we're making it too hard

[44:46] on oursel. Um so, that's the the bank wreck. um the bank wreck ends up being

[44:50] the critical path item to getting the audit

[44:55] done and then the audit is the critical path for me to understand what our uh at

[45:01] least what the auditors say let's say our undesated uh balance is and that

[45:05] that for me is I'm also again we'll be a year behind on that so I've also been

[45:10] working with the team to say listen from that point here's the process we're

[45:15] going to follow to take that let's just assume that that's right for a second.

[45:20] That's like hard ground we can stand on and then catch up in terms of that. So

[45:25] that hopefully by the next time I see you, I want to be able to have a much

[45:30] better idea of really our financial condition. Um

[45:34] meanwhile, you know, we've had to keep making the donuts, right? So we got the

[45:38] fiscal year 26 closeout and the cleanup. Um already the team is starting to have

[45:44] preliminary discussions and thinking forward in terms of the budget process

[45:48] for the next fiscal year because that never sleeps. And then like you heard we

[45:52] got e emergency repair projects we have to fund. We've got basic what I consider

[45:57] almost non-negotiable uh CIP uh projects where we've

[46:03] whittleled it down to the stuff that's just mission critical uh to fund and the

[46:08] team is paying bills. We pay about uh I think you know this but we pay about 900

[46:14] uh invoices a month. Um

[46:19] so with that um I have been also at the same time behind the scenes uh I took

[46:26] some of those concepts that I laid out in the first first week uh that I was

[46:29] here and I've put together kind of a project plan uh which I'd be happy to uh

[46:34] you know we could sit down and walk through it together if you if you wanted

[46:37] but um the punchline of that plan is uh I just called it managing the tax

[46:44] burden. So that that's where I want to get to. In order to get there, however,

[46:49] I got these what I called stabilization uh items around this what what we have

[46:55] it, you know, etc. There's a whole process around that and I talked about

[46:58] the bank wreck and assuming it. Um, but a piece of that is um,

[47:06] and I've had uh, discussions with the internal team over the past uh, couple

[47:11] weeks on this

[47:14] in order for me to make progress. Um, I need to free up some of my resources. So

[47:21] I mentioned for instance that uh our team uh you know I'm now now that I'm

[47:26] here we've got four people in finance two of whom have been fully occupied in

[47:32] terms of just what I consider data entry they've been just plugging away entering

[47:39] invoices and by the way if you think about that just for a second you know

[47:42] that and that's I think um with very good intentions

[47:47] but number one they're at the back end of production line. If you ever worked

[47:52] in a manufacturing facility, they're at the back end of the line. So, if we're

[47:55] trying to do quality control at the back, by the time the widgets are

[47:59] falling off the back of the line, that's very late in the process and all the

[48:03] work's gone in it. And by the time by the time they see it, what do they know

[48:07] about where it came from? Is it right? Is it not right? Is it a duplicate?

[48:11] Should we ask questions? Do we reserve it? What what do we do with it? So,

[48:14] that's a very difficult way to do it. But more importantly, we have, like I

[48:18] just mentioned, we have amazingly talented and committed people that are

[48:23] running these what I think of as almost sub businesses underneath the town,

[48:28] but we're hamstringing them a little bit because we're pulling the visibility and

[48:32] the data and the decision-m and I think some of you fellas uh I think you're

[48:37] business people as well. We've taken away the the dashboard from

[48:42] them. So, it's like out of good intentions, I think we've made it more

[48:47] difficult. And the fact I don't have my my plane is filling up with smoke. I

[48:51] don't have the firefighters right now. So, I I need to reallocate. And I've

[48:55] made some uh suggestions and we're working on a plan where I can move the

[48:59] work around just a little bit and I can free up the people that I need to help

[49:03] me get ahead of this and fight this fire because I I inherited 162 items and then

[49:08] we have to keep making the donuts and and and we have to pull this thing out

[49:11] of the ditch. So that's that's one thing. Uh fixing the resourcing.

[49:16] Um the second thing and I I won't get too

[49:20] much into this cuz I you know like so many things I just know enough to hurt

[49:24] myself right now but um I've been struggling a bit little bit with our

[49:29] systems environment. Um

[49:36] we have uh in finance the front end of the business

[49:44] we use a system called Trio which is a old uh old old system but but you know

[49:50] it's it's it's known it works. It's not very pretty but the things hang together

[49:56] and it works. That's what we use in the front of the system. Then we have a

[50:00] financial system that is called Cassell and I think we're one of the newest

[50:05] clients at least clients of this size for that system

[50:10] supposed to be that we take transactions in over this TRIO system [snorts] then

[50:16] it's supposed to link up to Cassell then we're be supposed to be able to produce

[50:20] reporting out of the Cassell and by the way that's what ends up being reconciled

[50:26] to the bank out to the world the real world and That's what is getting audited

[50:30] on. That linkage is not very good right now to say the least.

[50:35] And so for me to get any data out of it so I can create information and I can

[50:40] come back to you with some insight and say hey listen

[50:45] here's where where we stand on stuff. We're having to to manually do that

[50:50] outside the system. So we lean on it to produce Excel reports and that that

[50:54] whole bit whatever which is fraught and there's a lot of

[51:00] human touch on that and whatever and I always feel you know right now in my

[51:05] brief time I you know I I have to figure that out and meanwhile

[51:10] what ends up being audited is it the Excel? No. Is it TRIO? No.

[51:16] It's this Cassell thing that we're not really using all that well. So, I need

[51:22] to figure this systems thing out as well because that that's just the reality of

[51:27] what it is. Um, so I got resourcing. I got systems to figure out. I'm trying to

[51:33] resort the work around. We're trying uh the work. I'm trying to balance the

[51:38] making the donuts and then, you know, trying to give you guys a straight

[51:41] picture in terms of here's where we sit and then we can put our heads together

[51:45] in terms of recommendations. That's the stabilization piece. um this cost

[51:50] optimization piece in terms of plug in the bucket. I have um

[51:57] I decided that I need to get on my office sooner around later and uh talk

[52:01] to people and of course you guys are high on my priority list. Uh so I'll

[52:07] look to to spend some time with you and get on your calendar. But to start with,

[52:12] I'm starting with our folks, department heads. [snorts]

[52:18] Um, and what I did is I uh listed all the key department heads

[52:26] for the city and all I did was I prioritized I stack ranked them based

[52:29] upon budget spend. I can't remember the uh there's that that historical joke

[52:36] where I can't remember the bank robber they were asking you know why why do you

[52:39] actually rob banks and he said well that's where the money is. Um so I

[52:45] thought I'd start with where the spend actually is and go in order of that. And

[52:50] so I don't know what this is but there's a dozen folks here on this list

[52:54] something like that. Um that represents 82%

[52:58] of the spend for the city. So I'm going to start there.

[53:02] And then I got a bunch of other folks and I have some external folks and of

[53:05] course uh I have you you folks on that but I thought before I sat down with you

[53:10] I'd like to have something substantive uh and and at least ground myself get in

[53:15] the pool a little bit and understand that. So um and I've I've had some

[53:20] initial discussions and it's been it's been amazing. um you know we talk about

[53:25] uh the um uh you know the the strategic value what they do but then you know

[53:32] there's this cost element I would say even on the cost side of the equation uh

[53:37] the time that I spent with these guys um no one is more aware and worried and

[53:44] cognizant of what it cost to do than than them every single discussion that

[53:50] we have these guys stand up and say Yeah, but you know, let's talk about the

[53:55] cost element or whatever. So, I feel like

[54:00] the the the spirit is exactly right. They just need they just need help from

[54:04] me and and my people uh to be able to do it. So, um but in in those initial

[54:10] discussions, I we've already highlighted some opportunities on the cost side that

[54:15] could make a huge difference at the end of the day. So

[54:19] with all these, if I'm talking to people that represent 82% of the spend, I'd

[54:23] like to be able to summarize that and come back to you and say, "Hey, listen.

[54:26] Here's the inventory of where the where the water's flowing

[54:31] out of the bucket." And we can and we can't do everything all at once. And

[54:34] sometimes to fix them, as you guys know, there's a little bit of upfront expense

[54:37] to make that happen, too. But unless we want to keep playing, you

[54:41] know, whack-a-ole year after year after year, um, here would be the plan and

[54:46] then we can prioritize and and here's what it would mean. And I'm, by the way,

[54:50] I'm characterizing those cost savings. Uh, some of them have are run rate

[54:57] savings, as you know. So, uh, recurring budget expenses that we can take out.

[55:03] So, we'll we'll we could save that year over year. Others are one-time

[55:08] cash benefit types of things, but that's real money, too. And I think to council

[55:13] Howard's point, you know, if we can get smart about those things, then maybe we

[55:17] actually maybe we don't even need to finance some of that stuff at all. We

[55:22] can actually squeeze the lemon and we actually have that financing uh within

[55:25] the town. So, that's one of the the pieces that I'm I'm capturing um from

[55:30] those things. So, that cost observation piece already is underway. And I'm

[55:34] again, I just wanted to um I'll get to everybody, but I'm

[55:39] starting with uh like the bank robber said, I'm starting with where the money

[55:42] is first. Um then there's uh this revenue unclogging this spigot thing. Um

[55:49] so I'm talking about things like you tiffs, uh state reimbursements for sure.

[55:54] I talked about this monetizing the growth piece. um other types of uh um

[56:02] things taking advantage of sort of the tourist traffic etc etc and then I I

[56:07] mentioned even uh grants which I have um uh in my uh experience some mixed

[56:13] feelings about although to the extent that we can identify

[56:18] grants that have a property tax offset benefit to them. So there these are

[56:26] needs and projects that have been captured in the expense budget now and I

[56:32] can find alternative sources for funding for them then I'm much more in support

[56:36] of those naturally as opposed to grants that are inventing their own incremental

[56:42] thing or work. Um and then I rub all that together and then you know managing

[56:46] the tax burden. So now it's you know what can we actually afford from that

[56:50] and what tough decisions are we going to make? How are we going to prioritize it?

[56:54] I would like to report have a report out at least in terms of my findings and I'd

[56:59] like to be a little bit more qualitative if I can by the next finance committee

[57:03] meeting. Um it forces me um you know we'll see

[57:08] because I'm struggling mightily with the data

[57:12] but I but on the other hand I'm not sure that gets better if you give me another

[57:16] 3 months to you know float around and uh you know stare at my navl basically. So,

[57:23] putting a hard uh uh report out on the calendar of Monday, September 14th,

[57:29] which is the next finance committee meeting. I like to be able to if you

[57:32] think all this is like, you know, I'm a fresh set of eyes and I've done a little

[57:36] bit of discovery, talk to the folks, you know, who are on

[57:41] the ground, talked to people externally, you know, met with you guys, um, and

[57:46] then rub that together and say, "Hey, listen, you know, because I've done

[57:49] turnaround for a living, here's my, uh, my take on it." Uh,

[57:55] I, you know, if you guys are comfortable with that, that's that's what I'd like

[57:58] to do. Um, I'd also like to open up the door for listening dialogue with the

[58:05] public. Um

[58:09] cuz I know that you know people uh it's one thing what the numbers say but you

[58:14] know for me uh I I won't go through my whole thing from from uh the first first

[58:19] meeting but um I I know firsthand um

[58:25] what it means to to struggle and to worry about you know how you're going to

[58:29] make the next whatever pay pay bills. Um, so I'd like to open that that up and

[58:35] I mean this in a sincere way uh that I I would love to hear and hear from people

[58:42] and and spend time with people in terms of what their experience is, what are

[58:46] they concerned about, what questions do they have, what are their priorities.

[58:51] Um, I think we publish my email uh on the website in a couple different

[58:57] places, but uh my email is c neithsworthmain.gov.

[59:01] gov. So, you can send me an email. I also would uh would like to have office

[59:07] hours. I don't know if maybe my predecessors did that. I don't know. Uh

[59:12] but um I'm going to try uh blocking uh Thursday mornings

[59:19] from 8 to 10 in my office. Uh I'll make you a cup of coffee. We can sit down.

[59:24] We'll close the door and um and and and and we can uh we can chat. I would

[59:29] welcome that. And then also uh you know if you you fellas have ideas about other

[59:34] ways that would make sense um I was even thinking maybe I could host some kind of

[59:39] quarterly thing where people could come together we could have kind of a public

[59:42] dialogue and uh and they could ask questions and I I give him my best shake

[59:48] in terms of here's my understanding of where we are uh for that I think that'd

[59:52] be good. Um, and if there are other ideas about

[59:56] that, how to have kind of a real conversation and and whatever. I I don't

[1:00:01] have a lot of answers. I don't have all the

[1:00:04] answers for sure right now, but I can I can certainly listen and uh and

[1:00:10] prioritize that. Uh, that's that's a big priority for me.

[1:00:14] Um, >> to me, it sounds like you're working

[1:00:18] hard to get a handle on it. It takes a while when you get into it.

[1:00:23] when you take over somebody else's position, you know, you come in and you

[1:00:29] you got to figure out, oh, okay, this is this and

[1:00:35] [clears throat] one of the concerns you've identified to me is and I was

[1:00:39] where I TRIO has been around for a lot of municipalities

[1:00:45] for a long long time and a lot of clerks,

[1:00:50] a lot of city managers you know, treasures, they they don't

[1:00:56] it's same same with anybody. Uh well, we never used to do it this way. They don't

[1:01:02] they when they make that comment, they they they don't want to change.

[1:01:06] » Mhm. >> They're worried about the dark side. And

[1:01:09] it's not the dark side. There's always a better way to do something.

[1:01:14] Unfortunately, [clears throat]

[1:01:17] with my experience working in state government, they've changed a lot of

[1:01:21] programs and without

[1:01:27] with doing tests to see if this program will now transfer to this program and

[1:01:33] work with this and next thing you know it's like

[1:01:38] it still won't tell what it just implemented. You know

[1:01:42] what I mean? And then you still got the problem. You see I

[1:01:47] mean Main Revenue Services did that and and they spent

[1:01:51] » uh two years trying to get their program to work with the new program and it

[1:02:00] didn't [clears throat] >> and the

[1:02:05] the estate assessor said let's just go with it

[1:02:11] now. I think by now they've corrected that problem cuz that was back in the

[1:02:16] '9s. So you figure, well, maybe it's straightened out.

[1:02:21] But [clears throat] >> yeah, we'll we'll see. I think the

[1:02:24] systems integration piece is a is a pretty big one. I know um

[1:02:28] » you know, bad data in, bad data out, and I think I've

[1:02:32] » um you know, following along for that, too. We made a lot of progress. An

[1:02:38] initial narrative of this was coming in. And you know you Stephen you were here

[1:02:42] you weren't here Pat when there like they did a software transfer in the

[1:02:46] middle of a budget season between Munis and Cassell they didn't actually fully

[1:02:50] implement that change uh there was massive amount of turnover in the

[1:02:54] organization in the finance department >> and in the city manager's office at the

[1:02:58] time I kind of took over that project management for six weeks brought the

[1:03:02] entirety of pretty much the management core into the auditorium for six

[1:03:05] straight weeks on arrival and did the systems in integration to the extent

[1:03:09] possible got a budget book together. We had no prior year actuals for anything

[1:03:13] at that point. They were all just budgeted because there really wasn't any

[1:03:16] actuals. Um and I think one of my mistakes too was okay well the budget

[1:03:21] systems are better. There's the report outs. We started returning to the

[1:03:24] monthly reports from the Cassell integration. That was great in some

[1:03:27] ways. Um but it wasn't until uh we had another finance director leave and then

[1:03:32] I started redoing the budget this year where I was looking line by line by line

[1:03:35] by line and noticing on how Cassell kind of includes the revenues in this um in

[1:03:42] the expenses area and was sort of hiding some of the expense overruns that I

[1:03:46] started seeing in the earlier year that wasn't readily apparent on those you

[1:03:50] know monthly report outs. So you have you kind of trust a monthly report out,

[1:03:54] you see a different story. You know, we've this budget cycle too. We didn't

[1:03:58] we didn't backfill two employees, so we're net negative on the general

[1:04:01] government side. Um two full-time employees. Uh and we said no to

[1:04:07] absolutely everything this budget season. We're negative 10% on the

[1:04:11] request from the nonprofits. And we're going to I know Chris, you're kind of

[1:04:16] analyzing some of our systems for further cost savings on what we should

[1:04:19] stop moving forward with. Um, this is the northstar that bank recon, the

[1:04:24] budget, the cassell, the blocking and tackling piece. And we are going to be

[1:04:27] in an orientation of infrastructure, public safety, and keeping the lights

[1:04:32] on. Um, from my perspective, in the same vein as last budget cycle until that

[1:04:38] piece um is solved. And you know, I just say one more thing. I think this for me,

[1:04:45] you know, this is I know we've made some progress, not nearly as much as I would

[1:04:49] have hoped. put this in the vein of like last year [music] taxes went tax bills

[1:04:53] went out again not on time for you know the seventh year in a row here and it

[1:04:58] had been two cycles where that had happened under my watch and we made a

[1:05:02] huge effort thank you to the deputy city manager the assessor and others who were

[1:05:06] part of that turnaround and I'm our consultant who we brought on in that and

[1:05:09] we sent tax bills out for the first time and some people's like they don't have a

[1:05:12] memory of it not going out so for me we gota um it can't just be more promises

[1:05:17] and hearing the same thing at these finance committee we actually have to

[1:05:20] solve the problem and put timelines on when we're going to solve it by.

[1:05:24] » Yeah. The two two quick things I I would just offer there. Um, you know, my

[1:05:32] uh again, uh, so a lot of my professional

[1:05:37] life, you know, I've done, um, kind of real distressed turnaround stuff and,

[1:05:41] um, I just find it's not

[1:05:45] useful or I'm not trying to make excuses.

[1:05:49] Um, and also I'm not trying to like blame either because uh

[1:05:54] I think blame is often very simplistic and uh and it's not productive. I the

[1:05:59] way I look at Ellsworth is uh we're like a small boat almost

[1:06:04] like an inflatable in the middle of the big ocean and Ellsworth is special and

[1:06:09] you know human terms but it's very it's not special from a economic perspective

[1:06:14] and from a fin. So we're not immune to a lot of the forces that are happening in

[1:06:19] the state that then are manifesting here in terms of some of the challenges we're

[1:06:24] having. Not immune in terms of some of the federal stuff and you know

[1:06:28] inflationary pressure and and different things or whatever. Um so we're in this

[1:06:33] little inflatable thing and we're together and increasingly this to at

[1:06:38] least to date the state hasn't really been coming to our aid all that much or

[1:06:41] whatever. So, it's up to us. And so, for me to, you know, cast blame or or throw

[1:06:47] spears, let's say, at the people in the boat trying to bail the boat,

[1:06:52] I feel like, you know, if that's the best I got,

[1:06:54] » then, you know, come on. Um, >> it

[1:06:58] » but but it but to be able to at least let people know as a start, here's what

[1:07:04] we're up against. because I feel like when when people are grown-ups, you can

[1:07:08] take good news, you can take bad news, but they need to know what the score is

[1:07:13] so we we even know what problems that we got to solve. So, I'm just letting you

[1:07:17] know that's what I think we're up against and it's what I'm up against.

[1:07:22] But with that said, I still want to be able to report out something real uh

[1:07:25] September 14th, just so you know. So, and I think I know we're

[1:07:31] just looking forward to I think your boat analogy is I I feel like we're in

[1:07:35] with those like those little hand pumps and there's just more coming in.

[1:07:40] » Um, I'm worried >> that's going to happen. You know, it's

[1:07:44] going to be there's going to be times that, you know, Mike Mike will will be

[1:07:48] pulling his hair out because the water man up on Oak Street breaking and then

[1:07:53] this one down Water Street and then up to Elder Falls and all of a sudden the

[1:07:59] sewage treatment plant pops a cookie. You know, these things are all

[1:08:04] unforeseen. I I I do I'm not going to cast any blame. I think

[1:08:12] that We need to do something about an aging

[1:08:15] program like TRIO because I don't think that's going to be

[1:08:22] longer for everybody else. And we were proactive and f trying to find a program

[1:08:27] that's going to work. It It's like, you know, running a running certain programs

[1:08:33] on your computer. It's like, oh, Windows 10 is no longer supported.

[1:08:39] » Yeah. and and this doesn't talk to this. So there you are, you know, you've

[1:08:45] you've had Windows 9 and you've up Windows 8 and you've upgraded 10 and now

[1:08:49] oh we're going to 13. You see I mean you're going to have that

[1:08:55] you have that in the trucks and equipment too because they're all coming

[1:09:00] out as computerized. You see I mean so if man makes it it's going to be wonky.

[1:09:06] » Mhm. one minute you think you're doing a great job and next thing you know it's

[1:09:10] like but to to your point you they're being

[1:09:16] proactive to try to point out things and and and that's what we need to do. I

[1:09:22] still be I'm still going to be on the deal that we need to put the brakes on a

[1:09:27] lot of stuff a lot of new stuff. It's just like whoa we need to get things

[1:09:32] taken care of. We need to take care of the things that

[1:09:37] councils 20 years ago should have took care of.

[1:09:41] » Okay. I've been touting that for years and years and years and finally it's

[1:09:46] like, you know, everybody encouraged me, you you need to run for city council.

[1:09:51] Well, I'm really didn't want to run. I'm more interested in walking.

[1:09:56] So, that's how I did. You know what I mean? When we're gonna get a handle on

[1:10:01] this stuff, light right at the end of the tunnel is

[1:10:05] there. Not like looking through the catch b

[1:10:10] looking through the cross culvert and not seeing any daylight. There is some

[1:10:14] daylight there and it's going to get there, but we need to [snorts]

[1:10:19] put the binders on. I picked across to a couple of like the

[1:10:25] last warrant and it's like, hey, this should have been put here, not here.

[1:10:29] Well, I it's too late now. It's already been

[1:10:35] put, but it might not be too late. You assuming

[1:10:40] cell phone stipens should be picked up by all the departments that those

[1:10:46] employees that are required to have a phone.

[1:10:50] You see what I mean? And you got to identify

[1:10:55] [clears throat] does it there such thing as want and

[1:10:59] need. You know what I mean? Do I know we want we want we want. What do we really

[1:11:07] need? If I could weigh in just a moment.

[1:11:13] I got here five years ago and there was five people in the defi in

[1:11:18] the finance department and slowly that got weaned down

[1:11:24] » and over the five years that I have been here for almost 5 years

[1:11:30] [clears throat] I think you walked into the best situation that it's been in

[1:11:34] five years not because of me by any means but

[1:11:41] I think we had a garden in Ellsworth that was all weeds and no vegetables.

[1:11:47] And I think you're walking into a spot where

[1:11:52] there is now some vegetables among the weeds and it's always an improvement. I

[1:11:59] was here um about two months when the brand new finance director gave us

[1:12:05] notice and I had asked at that point if we could outsource with a accounting

[1:12:12] firm to come in here whether it was 200,000 250,000 and get things set up

[1:12:18] for the next finance director and I couldn't get support for that and it's

[1:12:23] been continually um a a revolving door. However,

[1:12:28] in the last

[1:12:33] in the last two years, it has been the best that it has been in

[1:12:41] at least five. And I believe in my heart that Ellsworth's financial

[1:12:48] problem dates back way before anybody was willing to admit to it. I'm not

[1:12:56] saying anybody has done anything wrong, but I think people have got bogged down

[1:13:02] with the day-to-day invoices and it's been hard. It's it's been redundance of

[1:13:08] work, not management of work. And there were five here.

[1:13:14] And these people have, especially the last gentleman that had your position,

[1:13:21] has really printed uh a lot of information that we never had on a

[1:13:27] finance situation. We had actuals to budget. We had year-to- date. Um, and

[1:13:36] when I first got here 5 years ago, it was on a white table and a stack of

[1:13:42] invoices. You look through and that was it. There was no information.

[1:13:47] » And in the last 5 years, it has evolved into,

[1:13:51] um, YouTube coverage, um, audio, video of this meeting. Um, and there has been

[1:13:58] a heck of a lot of progress that has been made. However,

[1:14:03] weeds don't die easy. And when you have a field of weeds,

[1:14:08] it's hard and it takes time to fix the weeds into a vegetable garden. And I

[1:14:17] only use that analogy because I noticed that you have used a lot of analogies

[1:14:22] which I enjoy. And

[1:14:27] what you're inheriting today is far better than any finance director has

[1:14:34] inherited in the last 5 years. I know it looks terribly bad, but at least you

[1:14:39] have some reports because when I first got here, there were no reports.

[1:14:45] Absolutely none. You wouldn't have been able to see what you've seen

[1:14:50] if it wouldn't been continuous improvement. Now, maybe the energy

[1:14:56] hasn't always been in the right spot. Maybe there's been some poor decisions,

[1:15:01] but I I just want to say that certainly it's wonderful to hear your perspective.

[1:15:08] But what you can see, you wouldn't have seen three years ago. I promise you. I

[1:15:14] think Ashley could uh admit to that what you can see

[1:15:19] you would not have seen three years ago. Nor

[1:15:25] would you have anything to work with. And as as light as it may be um and as

[1:15:33] basic as it may be, it has improved and it sounds like you're going to make sure

[1:15:38] that it improves greatly. We the other thing too is I believe

[1:15:48] that we all want the same things and we all

[1:15:54] see different priorities. Um but if we don't know our finances, we don't know

[1:16:01] who we are. Um, and

[1:16:06] people can lie about numbers, but numbers can't lie.

[1:16:12] And I think this has been very informative

[1:16:17] and very real and thank you.

[1:16:22] » I I appreciate that perspective and and that wisdom for sure. And uh I will take

[1:16:29] that to heart cuz I you know I um I I certainly have a lot of turnaround

[1:16:33] experience but I have no experience with Ellsworth. And uh

[1:16:38] but I I I do uh one thing that resonated so much is that despite the spirited

[1:16:44] dialogue and I've only had I didn't have I haven't had a lot of time right to

[1:16:48] watch too much but I know there's kind of healthy dialogue in in the town. um

[1:16:54] what what counselor just said in terms of it it's so clear that people love

[1:16:59] this place and it it all comes from that like people's concern genuine concern

[1:17:06] about it and uh and I I also I just I guess I want you to know that I I don't

[1:17:12] take that trust lightly. I don't know if I'm the guy. Uh I don't I don't know if

[1:17:16] I can fix it. I think sometimes in this country, you know, we're looking for

[1:17:21] heroes or we're looking for villains. And I want to say I'm neither. But I

[1:17:25] think I'm an opportunity for all of us to uh let's work together

[1:17:30] with a a the kind of constructive spirit where we address real problems uh in a

[1:17:37] factual way and and head on because I think we're we have everything we need

[1:17:42] in our boat uh to save it, but we got to work together. So

[1:17:46] » yeah, I'd say that. Thank you very much, Steve. I think that's incredibly

[1:17:50] accurate reflection of the progress the fin I think we can get bogged down

[1:17:54] because as you noted in those 175 items like I put a lot of those together on

[1:17:58] that dare to fix finances project management list and I think coming back

[1:18:03] into the finance director role very briefly as we were trying to hire you.

[1:18:07] It was just concerning on how much we still had to do and but also to your

[1:18:10] point, Steve, which I think is important on just having the data, the

[1:18:14] transparency piece. You know, it hasn't always been easy when I we started

[1:18:18] publishing these pieces and draft budgets online um with prior actuals,

[1:18:23] final budgets. We've had some actually some great feedback from citizens,

[1:18:26] including last week about an alewife thing, which we'll look into, and I love

[1:18:30] those pieces. But to Steve, to your point on kind of the resource deployment

[1:18:34] and the structure itself on all the invoices and all the work that's being

[1:18:39] done here and um getting to that higher level of our team that's got a lot of

[1:18:45] experience now, you know, three years tenure, which is first in the city and

[1:18:48] it's really all due to Ashley and Deb and Leia. The backbone, Chris coming in

[1:18:52] is going to be a new piece, but then how do we create a system for them to truly

[1:18:56] succeed to get at that that hole in the boat? We can't just keep bailing out and

[1:19:01] expect that the water's not going to keep coming in on this piece. It's the I

[1:19:05] know it's my northstar. The resources I know Steve on, you know, the accounting

[1:19:09] stuff we've talked about in the in the previous I I would say they said city

[1:19:13] did they didn't really tell anybody about it. They did hire the same

[1:19:17] auditing firm that was doing the or the reconcil to do reconciliations at great

[1:19:21] costs like a quarter million dollars without really even telling anybody.

[1:19:24] They when I was arrived we were spending tens of thousand dollars a week in

[1:19:28] warrants on that. Um, we tried to bring it in house. We tried to make it much

[1:19:32] more cost- effective. It hasn't gotten us back to the fully recon system. So,

[1:19:36] you know, I know Chris is already looking and working with the team on how

[1:19:39] do we how do we get back up to speed and then how do we resource it moving

[1:19:43] forward so we can handle this. Um, but have every confidence we're going to do

[1:19:46] so.

[1:19:51] » Great. I think we only put one or two people to sleep in the audience today.

[1:19:54] » Yeah, >> it's one of my one of my gifts.

[1:19:57] [laughter] Thank you.

[1:20:00] » All I can say is everybody needs to keep up the good work. I mean, there's light

[1:20:04] at the end of the tunnel. I'm I'm I'm new. I I come on this what my first full

[1:20:10] year going on being on the finance committee and being a counselor and it's

[1:20:16] like, yeah, you can do this. It's going to be tough. No one said it wasn't going

[1:20:21] to be easy, but you got to love a challenge.

[1:20:26] » Thank you. Okay, I got to go pay my

Finance Committee Meeting - August 24th, 2026

Transcript