[0:52] All right, the time is 4 o'clock. My name is Ted Loring. I'm chair of the Historic Preservation Commission. It's my honor to call the Commission to order. First sort of business is the roll call.

[1:05] Commissioner Loring, Commissioner Faire, Commissioner Hurley, Commissioner Stuartton, Commissioner Smith, and Commissioner Summers, here. Thank you.

[1:18] Second order of business is the approval of the minutes, the minutes for the last meeting were distributed in our packet.

[1:24] I trust you had a chance to read it.

[1:27] Are there any additions or corrections to the minutes as they were distributed?

[1:33] Seeing no corrections, are there any objections to adopting the minutes as they were distributed?

[1:40] Seeing no objections, the minutes were approved as distributed.

[1:45] Public hearings, old and new, nothing on the agenda.

[1:54] You're okay, Street.com, anything to share there?

[1:57] Yeah, I am going to notice that I combined the two items into one since I have been

[2:01] doing the update together.

[2:04] No updates on Eureka History.com, but the incentive ideas, right, the top Eureka website,

[2:09] I'm happy to report that Alex is going to take on that effort.

[2:12] And we are really, we were hoping to bring back the web page with kind of what previous

[2:21] assistant planner Henry,

[2:25] thank you, Baker had done, so we'll probably start there, but

[2:30] we're not sure if we're going to be able to get it done by October because we need to take

[2:33] talk to we could training and apparently it's very involved.

[2:37] So we're going to do that together this month and so if we don't have anything for you in

[2:41] October meeting will definitely have something for you by the November meeting.

[2:47] And then some of the items that we discussed here tonight, we can talk about whether we want

[2:50] that to be on Toki Rika or the web page we're creating or if we just want to put it on the

[2:54] city planning historic Rika web page. So we'll get to that later. But that's all the updates for that.

[2:59] Good. Thank you. Any questions of staff?

[3:05] All right. Then we move on to new business.

[3:13] I really don't have a lot to say about this, just a couple of back-to-back pages that has to do with Arizona and historic properties neighborhood that home I've lived in or been associated with since 1993.

[3:36] Thank you, is in a national historic district and the taxes are a half what would be normal for Tucson.

[3:50] In fact, there are exactly what our taxes are here in California here in the property and in Eureka and the value of the home there is twice

[4:02] what the value of our home here is in Eureka. I've talked to Mariam McCollough about not this.

[4:11] I only brought this up because it was time to renew our ship agreement in which goes on for 15 years.

[4:21] Again, if you read the document, and I know you will, regardless.

[4:24] Um, so it was time to renew it and I thought, oh, I'll bring this in and share it and try again with Mary Ann.

[4:32] She has gone numerous times around and tried to start historic districts within the city.

[4:38] And as we all know, there's a lot of hesitancy, a lot of pushback, what's it going to do for me?

[4:46] Well, it can do a lot of things for you.

[4:49] This is Arizona, but there are facilities in California, certainly if you travel through downtown Sacramento.

[5:00] Particularly around 15th and 16th, you'll see a lot of really nice older homes. And their primarily were, I'm not sure they still are, but they were primarily owned by attorney groups who, because of the Saudis, months, because of the ability to hold the taxes to a minimum, took them over and redecorated them, brought them back up and to their original glory, which is what,

[5:30] is required in Arizona as well.

[5:33] We did an addition on our house and it had to have the same

[5:38] parapet, roof line, flat roof, same windows.

[5:42] I just took the windows out of the existing house that I was

[5:45] covering over and reinstalled them in the new rooms and into the

[5:49] back of it.

[5:50] So I'm not sure how to go any further.

[5:57] This is why I brought it here that you know give Caitlin and others opportunity to

[6:04] try and reach out. I'm happy to talk to Mary Ann again.

[6:10] Yes, anybody has any questions? I'll try to answer them as I mentioned. I was in the middle of cooking.

[6:17] I had to stop cooking and I was making meat loaf and my daughter always says,

[6:23] it's not your mama's meatloaf. I put things in that your mother would never think of putting

[6:31] in to the meatloaf, but it always turns out good. So any questions, I'll be happy to answer

[6:39] and any comments that would like to be added.

[6:47] Yeah, thank you, Bruce, for bringing this up. I was

[6:50] able to review it, and I thought there were some interesting things about the Arizona program

[6:58] that I thought was interesting. They say only non-commercial properties are eligible. So I thought

[7:07] that was interesting. It has to be owner occupied, where in California under the Mills Act.

[7:11] So this is essentially the Arizona Mills Act. California, as the Mills Act, this has there,

[7:18] what is it called?

[7:21] The Arizona Property Tax Reduction Program.

[7:25] So yeah, I thought it was interesting

[7:26] that had to be owner occupied,

[7:27] wearing California, it can be renters.

[7:30] Also in Arizona, it's 15 years in California, it's 10 years.

[7:34] I think you have the savings and property taxes

[7:36] is about the same.

[7:37] I know Alex has gotten some feedback

[7:40] from someone who got on the Mills Act a few years ago

[7:43] and that's where we learned that their property taxes

[7:45] were cut in half.

[7:46] So we're going to try to maybe do an interview

[7:48] of that person, for some quotes, or maybe some feedback for our talk-y recap website as well,

[7:54] to kind of build it up, and we definitely want to take our materials from the Mills Act

[7:58] and try to make them more in plain English and user-friendly.

[8:04] So that's why I'm not, and also another

[8:06] thing that I noticed in this Arizona one is you had to be actually on the National Register to

[8:11] even qualify for this Arizona property tax program. Where in California you just have to be on

[8:17] local register. So are you thinking that maybe if the state of California could do something similar?

[8:26] Yeah, it seems like it would have to be a state program. And just like the Mills Act is a state

[8:31] program and allows local state and federal or national. So I'm not sure, yeah, if we could mimic

[8:37] something like this here without maybe the state by off, but we definitely can beef up

[8:41] advertising the mills at program making it more

[8:44] plain English well there are other historic districts in Tucson in fact there's a lot of a lot of

[8:52] this happens to be a national historic district so that's where the national status comes from

[8:59] oh so you're saying yeah because according to this handout that that you's had to be eligible yeah

[9:04] had to be on the national register as well as follow their minimum maintenance and restoration

[9:13] standards.

[9:14] I thought that was really interesting and I liked those ideas as well that they provided

[9:19] on the back page of your packet.

[9:21] And it's not most of the homes are not on the national register at all.

[9:26] They're just in a national historic district and so they qualify as part of that.

[9:33] primarily from the 30s and 40s. And if they do extensive remodeling on their house like a home or

[9:41] block and a half from us, it will be opted out because they didn't go through shipbo. They didn't

[9:49] go get it. We have a neighborhood review commission that decides whether they can stay in or not.

[10:00] On every single property in this area and it's large. It's 15 blocks, probably one way. Starts at first and goes

[10:10] about 12. Okay. I think maybe not all the properties of the national district have to be listed

[10:16] maybe separately because it does see it. It just wanted to pull out the application that we're

[10:20] Bill and he does say third street, but it needs to be listed.

[10:25] It says conditions, let's do the National Historic.

[10:27] It starts on first, next to Speedway, if you're familiar with Speedway, is where they

[10:33] used to be able to drive five miles an hour.

[10:36] And that was the fastest when they first went from Horses and Buggie and Tucson to Horses

[10:44] carriages, and that was the they had to figure out some speed to limit it. So it's speed

[10:50] away for a second, Hawthorne, which I tell people it's on the same street as the women's

[10:59] softball stadium. And many people know where the women's softball stadium is because Arizona

[11:07] University of Arizona women have one national championship quite a few times. And then the

[11:13] author and then third and third has much larger and many homes on the national register but

[11:20] much larger properties and larger lots as well, a combination thereof, and their value is twice

[11:29] what my home is valued at. It's very interesting to the whole activity.

[11:38] Yeah, interesting. Thanks for the information I got to learn something.

[11:41] I'll let the record show that Commissioner Hurley has joined us.

[11:47] Other questions, Bruce, or comments?

[11:51] Just think it on that.

[11:52] I saw yesterday in the news, I guess there's a house that was built in Phoenix in 1902,

[11:59] so 10 years before it became a state, and Arizona State's trying to build a new medical

[12:03] center, and they wanted to raise the home, and because they want that block, and the

[12:11] on our didn't budge. And after 12,000 signatures and public

[12:17] cryback Arizona State announced that they're withdrawing its court proceedings.

[12:22] So even though it was listed on the historical Phoenix historical register and

[12:25] everything Arizona State still wanted to just just demolish it and everything

[12:31] and it's a beautiful 1902 queen and everything and I don't know if you go online

[12:35] and look at it, that means that's one of those things where like historical

[12:38] properties are important because you don't want as good as Arizona State is. I mean that's that's my school and stuff

[12:45] but you know as good as they are and everything I mean even they can want to you know

[12:53] take down historical things for for progress or their need they're want you know

[13:01] and if we were looking for a local example we could say the Nixon House.

[13:08] How many others?

[13:08] I don't know, yeah.

[13:10] In other comments?

[13:16] And Jesse, you have a presentation.

[13:22] So as I was saying, like, at the last meeting

[13:24] towards the end of last meeting that kind of went down

[13:26] a rabbit hole and started fighting a bunch

[13:28] of different things regarding, like, wood windows

[13:32] and lead paint removal and everything.

[13:36] And Jessica was nice enough to print out

[13:39] the book that I found as a basically a PDF handout online.

[13:44] regarding Lead Paint Safety and actually step by step on how to remove it and there's excellent

[13:52] crock cross sections and diagrams and everything in this booklet that show you different

[14:02] home, how different windows and surfaces can get deteriorated, how they can be repaired,

[14:09] Steve, those wooden windows and everything and Bruce mentioned something when we were talking

[14:17] before we came on that at the back of the handout that you can actually find on the US Department

[14:25] of Interior's National Park Service, historic preservation pages that on the back there it says

[14:34] is like the last paragraph that basically, you know, they believe that the repairing

[14:40] weatherization of existing windows is more practical, the most people realize, and that

[14:44] there are other alternatives or techniques out there, but wooden windows that are repaired

[14:49] and properly maintained will have a greatly extended service lives and contribute to the

[14:53] historical character of the building and so I mean they really push to try to

[15:00] Reserve the wooden windows. And I know that's a huge topic since I've been on a commission that that's a huge topic with people with the window repair. So hopefully this could help out people. And then maybe even on the website eventually or something. I mean, the hyperlinks that I sent and everything, maybe those could be put up as well as people can view the information firsthand. And there was a law passed in 2019.

[15:28] the California Historical Tax Credit SB 451.

[15:33] It's still active, but unfortunately, the applications are closed because the funds have been exhausted.

[15:39] Everybody only wanted it first passed.

[15:41] There was only a $50 million aggregate cap.

[15:46] So basically in the last seven years it's gone, so it's already been exhausted.

[15:52] But it's still active, but it basically what it would do is that it would give you a 20% tax credit on your home.

[15:58] you can get there's an extra 5% bonus on there for certain things if it's residential or

[16:09] multi-family.

[16:12] You know it has to be the use of the credit has to be income producing property or owner occupied.

[16:18] There's different provisions on there and everything and I thought that was a cool idea.

[16:23] I mean, people are always looking to save on their tax bill and there's other ways that

[16:29] you can save as well.

[16:31] There's stuff that I looked at where I talked about trying to partner with the local, your

[16:38] local film commission or the California film commission and trying to put your historic

[16:43] home on their list of properties for filming locations and that could be a source of income.

[16:49] and have your property displayed and yeah, I mean, I wrote down a bunch of stuff, I mean, I got my own notes and everything.

[17:00] I mean, I could be here for a half hour, but I don't want to do that.

[17:06] What you were talking about with Sacramento, if you go to the California Preservation Foundation website, there's a whole bunch of good resources on there.

[17:17] information. So that's that's another good thing.

[17:23] Yeah, there's like I said, there's a

[17:25] bunch of different stuff. I created a little makeshift. Like if we wanted to print out a

[17:30] or I could print out a flyer for people, the public wanted something. I printed out like a little

[17:35] makeshift flyer. I mean, it can be moved around. More info added. I mean, I could add a fourth

[17:42] fourth page so it could be, you know, try fold or I think that's how I have it right now. It's like

[17:46] I just see, do you mind the fanor up too really quickly?

[17:48] I'm sorry, through the chair, sorry.

[17:51] Are you talking about them beyond the lead base

[17:53] paint and the windows, right?

[17:56] Yeah, I'm kind of talking about it.

[17:58] It's like incentives in general.

[17:59] Yeah, it's like a hole with the lead paint removal.

[18:04] Oh, to help fund it.

[18:06] Yeah, there's different ways that people can get tax breaks.

[18:08] It can help get funded.

[18:10] But a lot of it, too, is just resources like it.

[18:13] step-by-step guide when the booklet on Lev Paint Safety and how to properly fix that, the preservation

[18:22] of wooden windows.

[18:24] Things like that.

[18:24] So I mean, there's a ton of resources out there, and there's also a ton of monetary and

[18:31] incentives and tax breaks.

[18:32] So I think that's always good for the public to know.

[18:37] Yeah, I definitely, I mean, if you want to send, if you want to prepare that fact sheet

[18:41] We can send it to us and we can put it on the next agenda and then we can review it and we can see whether we want to put it on our talk your eca page or our or the

[18:50] Historic eureka webpage. I think that's great. I mean, I would love to do little educational things at each meeting, especially when we have

[18:57] Sparse agendas. I wanted to kind of touch on my key takeaways of your lead paint safety guide.

[19:06] I thought it was interesting, I mean, the main point of this is that lead safe work does not automatically require removal or replacement of historic materials.

[19:14] I think that's why you had this on here.

[19:16] So I think this would be a great resource for our website, and we should post it if you all want to post it.

[19:22] I think that guide, you know, it just is a step-by-step guide on how to preserve the historic materials, so I thought that was really good.

[19:28] And then for the Windows, what I thought was interesting is,

[19:33] I did a search to make, we saw a vinyl in there.

[19:36] And the only time they used vinyl was it

[19:39] it could be a material used for the storm windows.

[19:41] So I thought that that was interesting.

[19:44] So I kind of wanted to point that out.

[19:45] And I also wanted to point out that we did get a CLG grant

[19:49] before I came on board.

[19:51] I think it was maybe like 2015.

[19:53] And so we do have about old wooden windows

[19:56] and the benefits of them.

[19:58] So I think maybe some of these

[20:00] This hand out that they can take. Maybe I'll leave some right here in front of the council chambers. Maybe when people come in the council, they can see it. Maybe I'll leave one of these printed. So we do have this. It is on our website. You know, but like we've heard from some people, they have a hard time getting our historic eureka website. So that's why we're hoping to talk eureka with our other historic eureka website. Between the two, we can get the information out and easily available.

[20:26] Yeah, there's also other things that I had found different cities like Iolton and Riverside

[20:32] and Sossolito cities like that.

[20:35] They have a certificate of appropriateness and it's basically a official document that's

[20:40] issued by the local Historic Preservation Commission or Planning Department.

[20:44] And it's basically, excuse me, it basically acts like a specialized building permit where

[20:49] it certifies any proposed alterations, repairs, or additions to a designated Historic property.

[20:55] So that can match the historical character of the building and meet local preservation guidelines.

[21:01] There's different links that I had found.

[21:03] They were talking about why a COA would be needed and it has to do it like exterior changes.

[21:09] Additions and demolition.

[21:11] It's strictly for an exterior focuses.

[21:14] It does not apply to interior remodeling or paint colors or routine minor maintenance.

[21:21] They talked about why commissions use them.

[21:23] to help prevent bad renovations, protect property values and in most areas the most historic districts

[21:29] that are legally required. So I mean I don't know. I didn't see anything online on the city's

[21:35] website regarding something like that. Yeah. Is that like a survey that you do already and then

[21:41] the property goes to the commission. You guys approve like what the survey looks at that time,

[21:45] the contributing features. Yeah, pretty much. There's a very detailed application online that

[21:49] they can fill out through the city of Sossolete,

[21:51] like on the city of Sossolete's website.

[21:53] There's a very detailed application online.

[21:56] So, and I looked at it, I didn't print it out as an example,

[22:02] but there's other cities too,

[22:04] where there's 12 certified local districts

[22:07] in California and they're mostly in the Bay Area in LA,

[22:12] so Long Beach, Oakland, Pasadena, Pittsburgh,

[22:17] Redwood City, San Diego, San Francisco, Santa Cruz,

[22:20] Sossolido, and Stockton.

[22:21] And they have a description and a boundary map

[22:23] of those historic districts on the O.H.P. Parks website.

[22:29] And they talk about that there's a downloadable list

[22:31] and that each one of those properties are eligible

[22:34] to receive a 20% historic tax credit.

[22:39] And like I said, I don't know if I didn't see anything

[22:42] that the city of Eureka would have.

[22:43] And I don't know if old town would even qualify

[22:45] for something like that. So that could be something that could be looked for in the future.

[22:50] I'm sure that I'm sure a lot of business owners and everything would probably

[22:53] like that if it qualified. Yeah, no, certainly. If you could send me links to that research,

[22:59] I'd really appreciate it. Our wish list with CLG is to get a grant to kind of redo our green

[23:07] book survey and dig down into more contributing features. Because our green book was the basis

[23:14] for our historic register and it doesn't have very much information in it so someone like me

[23:20] when I came on board at first I'm like oh those are the contributing features in the green

[23:23] back and then as I came before this body I learned very quickly that no it's not just what's

[23:30] it's basic you know and you're the experts you know what it looked like before but I mean I

[23:35] couldn't even visually see wooden gutters up there before you know so I think it would be extremely

[23:40] helpful, but that all costs money. And the effort that happened in the 70s was a huge effort.

[23:46] That took years. So hopefully maybe with artificial intelligence coming through, we can at least get

[23:51] like a first pass through of maybe doing a street view, you know, a Google Street view analysis,

[23:57] and then having people go and confirm or something, but we want to get a CLG grants will help pay for

[24:02] that. So we definitely have that on our wish list for the future.

[24:08] Other comments, questions?

[24:14] I'll make a comment.

[24:16] If you haven't read through this little nice little book here, it would be great for if you were teaching a construction tech program or something like that.

[24:27] Or if you just want to walk around your house and say, why does this door stick?

[24:31] Go to page 37.

[24:35] And I'm saying this because I've been doing this for the last month and a half going around

[24:41] fixing doors, not here in Eureka, but in Chico. And a home that was built in probably 62 by

[24:50] a construction outfit called Hignol and Strange, place where I used to shoot thousands, hunt

[24:56] at least, even if I didn't shoot them, they turned in to a housing.

[25:00] Attract and the sixties.

[25:05] And without exception, there was not one door that worked correctly on it.

[25:13] And all you have to do is watch the hinges as you close the door. And when they move the tiny little bit, it means it's jamming against the stop. The stop should have been held back a 30 second or a 16th of an inch away from the door on that side.

[25:30] and it goes into great detail on it. It's just really interesting. I will say that you don't

[25:36] have to worry about driving a 316s or a quarter inch dowel into screw holes if they're too big.

[25:44] I simply squirt glue in there and put toothpicks in it. Then drive a new screw into that.

[25:52] We all have our techniques, but thank you very much for this book.

[25:56] Also, if you want to know about, if you're not sure if there's lead paint in your house or the year,

[26:03] as long as you're the owner, you can always call the assessor's office, and you can,

[26:09] obviously, if the verify that you're the owner, because they can't give out information

[26:12] unless you are the owner, but you can find out what year your home was built.

[26:16] And if it's before 78, obviously there's a good chance there's probably lead, but I believe

[26:21] that most hardware stores you can get a lead testing kit and it's like a little marker and

[26:26] you rub it on the on the on the paint and it turns a certain color. I think some of them

[26:33] turn like purple and then it'll tell you like oh yeah it's positive for lead and then obviously

[26:37] there's a whole different step and containment and companies that handle that type of removal

[26:48] In my experience, this is a vast overstatement, but in many cases the simplest solution for

[26:56] lead and house is a no-co-to-pay.

[27:00] Can I speak to lead for a minute?

[27:02] I have first person hands-on experience with the lead issue.

[27:09] I owned the House on 3rd Street, 1521, 3rd, that Carson's first home and it's had many

[27:18] makeovers and many paint coats and I did do those testing strips and tried to be diligent.

[27:29] And my daughter still was exposed to lead at 25 parts per million which is far exceeds the

[27:36] five to the point where the county was called and she's had to have an IEP. So there are

[27:42] serious consequences when you maybe don't even know. And so I just this to me especially as a

[27:53] parent and a homeowner is so important. And I don't know if there's a way but it just seems

[28:00] that when I think about when I first started in this home and I was a designer but new to the

[28:05] and didn't really know where to get the information, but I wanted the information and I

[28:11] paid consequences for not having it. It seems like there must be a way that this can be

[28:17] provided to realtors or to the kind of people that bridge the new homeowners and their

[28:25] historic homes in some way. Maybe this is a website that we can share more with

[28:34] Relators and people who are putting these homes into homeowner's hands so that they at least know where to go because this

[28:42] here

[28:43] I mean

[28:44] You don't need money. It just tells you what to do

[28:48] You know, and it would be a great resource to just like

[28:52] You know in Beetlejuice when you get the guide to being dead like this is part of the guide to owning a historic home

[29:00] and just do diligence and safety and it's much more in-depth than that led noticed that, you know, you get as a renter or when you purchase a home.

[29:14] Yeah, certainly. I mean, this is why we're trying to add more resources to this talk here.

[29:19] We could web page and then we can advertise that web page to the realtor's association.

[29:24] We did, look at, and I thought I shared this at the last meeting, but I think you weren't here.

[29:31] We looked into what the disclosures are when they sell historic properties.

[29:36] And so it is on your title report when you're on the local register.

[29:40] And because there was one recently being sold.

[29:42] So it's there. And then there's also a seller's disclosure form that there's a bunch of questions.

[29:48] And they check boxes, yes or no. And it was interesting because this property that was being sold recently.

[29:53] someone that works for the city that's purchasing in Stockholm and I'm happy to report that they're very aware that they need to come to the committee

[30:01] And they're committed to it. But this, this, the cellars disclosure form, you can see they had marches for our property and then erased it. And then put no.

[30:10] So already the cellar, I mean, they knew that they were on it so that we just thought that was a really interesting kind of, you know, thing that happened.

[30:19] So we are, this was with the City Attorney's office that we were working with them and got the examples.

[30:25] And so they didn't see a need for a new way to disclose through the real estate transaction process.

[30:33] So then we were thinking about, okay, let's throw some forms in when they get their sewer lateral, right, replace.

[30:40] So we could do that, but there's not, you know, we're going to run out of properties that need to replace their sewer lateral really quickly.

[30:48] And then the next one is now this form when people are applying for a building permit.

[30:53] They must sign this affidavit form and we're going to get into that at the next item.

[30:58] That we have two examples of this form.

[31:00] So for building permits, they sign under penalty and perjury.

[31:04] So then when someone like the startry, you know, just completely,

[31:10] the big norrs regulations like at least we have that signature they checked the boxes

[31:16] so we'll get into that at the next meeting.

[31:19] My home wasn't on the historic registry and so but it is a historic home it was built

[31:24] in the 1800s.

[31:25] I think that's one of the things is there's homes that are historic that aren't on the

[31:29] registry and in this case you know I I had to wait you know is it worth putting it on

[31:36] the registry and what does it take and I mean there's just a lot of things

[31:40] you face and so I and also as time goes on like you said the Green Book was

[31:46] initiated a long time ago and what historic is is probably changing now I

[31:51] mean it's already 2026 you know and 1980 was almost 50 years ago and so I

[31:58] think that Reeve visiting what is a historic home here and getting a grant to

[32:05] do a new Green Book review would be a great first step and then maybe you'd

[32:09] have a mailing list, you could mass educate the homeowners on that list or something.

[32:17] You know, I mean, and I know that's kind of like big hopes and dreams planning, but

[32:22] you know, if there's any longevity in what we're doing.

[32:27] Yeah.

[32:27] I mean, it all definitely, you know, it's tied to grant funding.

[32:32] I mean, even just sending a postcard, I mean, what do we have a thousand people on the

[32:37] just during a postcard is at least 60 cents.

[32:39] I mean, you know, it gets quite expensive,

[32:41] but, you know, being a homeowner,

[32:43] yeah, you get thrown into all of these unknowns.

[32:45] So I know this is, I don't know,

[32:49] to take it for what it's worth,

[32:50] but I believe like the division of environmental health

[32:53] of the county, you know, if you did have questions

[32:55] about lead-based pain, they probably could have helped,

[32:58] but as far as like the city being responsible

[33:01] for letting people know that their home could have led in it,

[33:04] I'm not sure if that would be our responsibility, I think that would be the property owner or the property owners as well as

[33:12] And through their disclosure process, but we can I can certainly look into it. Yeah, to your point summer

[33:18] Maybe it's a good idea to add to the talk your echo at page of certain tabs specifically for real estate agents

[33:25] So that they have everything in one place. Well as as a real estate agent, I can share with you what the state obligation is what the licensees obligation is

[33:34] and the licenseee's obligation is to make a diligent inquiry of the seller.

[33:41] So the agent is not required to go beyond what the seller knows or pretends to know.

[33:47] So the buyer relies and the agent relies on what the seller discloses.

[33:54] Most people don't think about that, meaning a known anything about that. So that's not much.

[34:00] You're not going to get a whole lot of reliable information.

[34:04] So if there's been a lead test, that must be disclosed.

[34:08] If the agent, if the seller knows that there's lead present on the property, they must

[34:12] know.

[34:13] But that's an affirmative knowledge.

[34:15] It doesn't require someone who lives in an 1850 house, which almost certainly has lead,

[34:21] to disclose that it has lead unless they have an affirmative knowledge.

[34:26] So that's point number one point number two is given the age of the housing stock in

[34:33] Eureka. It will be prudent to consider giving this booklet to everyone who applies for

[34:41] a permit to do anything. Because that's the point at which most people are going to encounter

[34:52] the problem.

[34:57] Other call it.

[34:59] It is.

[35:00] And I agree with you on that. But having read these two, like Bruce just recently said, we've been around our house to it was recently painted to sand off and be able to close certain windows. And a window that we thought was going to have to be completely replaced. After reading this, we realized we could, there was work we could do.

[35:30] on paint removal, sanding that would make the hardware is there but it would make the window

[35:36] functional again. But I do think that the whole idea of having a central website is to aggregate

[35:43] all these resources and it seems to me even if you're not applying for a project you need to be

[35:49] informed so where do you get information from. And it would be, I mean be ideal if when you buy the house

[35:56] They hand you this thing, they say, you're going to need this information, but I think your

[36:03] website has a lot of potential.

[36:06] Okay, other comments or questions?

[36:09] The California contractor's license requires that if you work on a house before 1978

[36:15] that you've finished the federal EPA renovate right program training and part of that obligation

[36:23] is that you're supposed to test for lead and spest this to protect your workers and also there's

[36:31] pamphlets, you're supposed to hand to homeowners and renters if you're doing any kind of

[36:37] demolition more than six square feet on any surface in a house of that age or if you're working

[36:43] on anything around windows or doors you have to test anyway.

[36:48] So any contractor that hasn't completed

[36:50] the RRP certification shouldn't be working on a house before 1978 that finds for breaking

[36:56] the EPA's rules on renovate right are $37,000 a day and so there should be some good

[37:02] motivation but I don't know that the EPA has an enforcement wing in our community to motivate

[37:08] that.

[37:12] That's good information. I'm going to ask our building official about that tomorrow.

[37:17] Other comments.

[37:20] All right.

[37:20] One other observation.

[37:21] There's been talk about districts.

[37:25] I was a participant in the Greek Heritage Society attempt to create a district.

[37:30] It was challenging.

[37:38] It is possible for the city to leave that process.

[37:42] The question is whether or not there is the political will to do it.

[37:47] And that is something that we could query the council about.

[37:54] If you chose.

[37:55] Are you talking about the Clark district when we tried to do?

[37:58] Was it that what it was called?

[37:59] Clark district was the only district the Heritage Society is attempted to promote.

[38:03] Yeah.

[38:03] I do remember seeing how it got through the whole process, even the city council.

[38:08] But then I had to go to a vote of all the property owners.

[38:11] And it didn't pass of the property owners.

[38:15] Yep.

[38:17] Why didn't that pass?

[38:19] What was the general objection?

[38:21] This is just me speaking, so it's my version of reality.

[38:28] But the easiest way to defeat an initiative is to create doubt.

[38:37] So the burden of proof to get people to support something is substantially higher.

[38:45] You know, how is this going to affect my property rights?

[38:48] How is this going to affect how I live and it's easy to get to generate concerns about a government initiative and having increasing the governments role in your life in your neighborhood.

[39:02] So, it was the simple, the simple answer is that the outreach program was insufficient to carry the day.

[39:14] I lived in West Clark at the time that that went through and voted for it in an attempt to create a district.

[39:23] And what I could say about that neighborhood is that it's primarily rent or occupied,

[39:28] and that there's a distance and a fur landlords to vote for something that restricts their property rights,

[39:35] even though it may be in the benefit of the city to preserve our historic character.

[39:40] Yeah, those two things kind of are at war with each other.

[39:43] And I could argument arguing, provide data that

[39:47] began in start-tastic will increase the value

[39:49] of those rental properties.

[39:52] But again, the argument was not made with sufficient support

[39:55] force to get their appropriate level of support.

[39:59] Yes.

[40:00] And it seems to me that we just really need to get some, you know, junior college program again on how to maintain your historic property and repair windows. So I know we've reached out to, I believe it, correct me if I'm wrong else, direct, garbage, right? Yeah. So we've reached out to him saying, hey, we love to partner with you on some wooden window repair program. So that seed has been planted, but of course it's always about money. So we're going to keep watering that as we can.

[40:29] But, you know, it's really important to me to get that program.

[40:32] Because I feel like if homeowners, especially

[40:35] adventures, if we actually have those programs and young folks

[40:38] start learning it, and actually can make some money.

[40:41] And then maybe we'll actually have a lot of people into it.

[40:43] And they'll be easier to find someone to help you,

[40:46] which right now it sounds like it's really hard to find qualified people

[40:51] to help you maintain your property.

[40:54] Okay. Anything else on this topic?

[40:55] To that point, some notes about that lead,

[40:59] hand out that you sent out one thing that caught my was grant money.

[41:04] And so I went down a rabbit hole and there is two grant programs,

[41:08] specific to lead hazard control.

[41:10] So maybe there is something similar to wood,

[41:13] but the two most kind of eye catching ones are

[41:16] the lead hazard reduction capacity building grant,

[41:19] which provides money to local agencies to build the infrastructure

[41:24] internally and actually fund local workforce development to get people

[41:29] trained up on light removal.

[41:33] And on the planning and develop, you know, these

[41:36] handouts were folks to actually understand the process and procedures for

[41:40] doing that. And then the other one is the lead hazard control grant program,

[41:45] which would provide money for, again, workforce development, but also provide

[41:51] money to specifically low-income households and households that have children that are under

[41:57] six years old. So those would be the only eligible people to apply, but that would provide

[42:03] direct money to folks to get this work done. And then those two programs would work hand-in-hand,

[42:08] so we would do local workforce development and actually give the homeowners money to pay the new

[42:15] workforce development. The only issue I saw with this is it does require cost sharing and matching

[42:20] on the local government level, so maybe we would have to look at the actual grant requirements,

[42:27] but maybe we can use another grant to match or at some point fundraise or something to match

[42:33] those grant, but those are available. And from what I looked at quickly, there is going to be funding

[42:40] in the budget, the California budget up until 2727 and 2028, so there is maybe an opportunity

[42:49] there in the future.

[42:51] Can the whole motor provide the match?

[42:55] I don't know.

[42:56] That might be something to look into.

[42:58] Because if the whole motor can, it becomes an easy sell.

[43:02] You want to do the fix up.

[43:04] We'll match you 50 cents for every 50 cents you put out there.

[43:08] Yeah, we'll have to look at the terms, but there's definitely something there.

[43:11] I think.

[43:15] Good. Good. I would encourage you to continue diving at a rabbit house.

[43:19] Thank you.

[43:21] Any other comments on this item?

[43:23] There's a resource locally. I believe the RCA has an XRP gun.

[43:29] It's an X-ray tool used to test painted items in place that tells you the percentage of lead paint.

[43:37] I'm not sure who it's available to.

[43:39] not available to local contractors. You can hire material consultants like Zindar Brunell

[43:47] who runs Brunell on Clark Consulting. There's a handful of others that have the same tool.

[43:52] But for homeowners that are eligible through RCA, there's a tool.

[44:00] Great. Thank you. And our senior player, Lil Heffner, used to work for RCA. So I think I can ask him about it.

[44:07] Yeah, those like little handheld XRF scanners, those things are kind of cool because they

[44:12] could test the ground too for not fairest metals and things like that.

[44:19] So they're kind of cool, those, there's huge machines, and then there's little handheld

[44:22] ones.

[44:25] Any other comments?

[44:27] You guys know, I'm going to hell with a lot.

[44:30] All right.

[44:30] I know just enough to be dangerous as to we as a group.

[44:36] It anything else on these reports we've had, interesting discussion, all right, then the last item under new business is the property perit acknowledgement form, this I believe was intended to avoid the people who didn't really understand the difference between like kind and

[44:59] .

[45:00] Well, I'm just fixing it up, aren't I? So present the forms to us.

[45:05] Yeah, yeah, thank you. So Alex, prepared the, let's see, I guess the first draft. No, the second draft. Okay, so I, so she prepared the first draft in after with our talks really just focusing on exterior alterations and providing detailed descriptions of what like for like means.

[45:26] And then really kind of geared it towards contractors and when I was reviewing it, it kind of gave me an idea where it's like, maybe it's for all

[45:34] Building permits regardless of its interior exterior.

[45:37] So we put it on the website permit.

[45:42] It's part of the building permit application.

[45:45] They have to submit this form either way if it's interior or exterior.

[45:50] So for the the dropped one right you you see how there's well first you put in your information

[45:56] There's the historic property acknowledgement and then there's a check one

[46:01] So no exterior work you're saying you're just doing interior work and then you certify that and then now we have proof literally just doing or anything inside and

[46:12] Then if they are doing exterior works, they could do interior exterior click both

[46:15] But if they just do the exterior one then there's a definition of what like for like looks

[46:20] means, which I want to flush out with you guys, and then they would outline the features that

[46:26] they're changing in there. And so that would be a part of their application, and then when

[46:31] it comes to planning, planning could review it and confirm whether that's all correct. The

[46:36] other version of the draft, too, which I'm sorry, was maybe I have these mixed up. I'm sorry,

[46:40] I probably totally mixed them up. The other version is more detailed, where it's asking

[46:47] you exactly what you're doing on the exterior, whether you think it's repair replacement

[46:52] restoration rehabilitation, what you're going to work on the windows door sighting.

[46:56] And then there's this acknowledge and then a description of work and then the acknowledgement

[46:59] kind of has multiple ways of saying, you know, you're not going to change the historic materials.

[47:08] So I kind of want to get your feedback.

[47:11] I think maybe we might end up doing a combination of the two or really just kind of getting

[47:15] feedback from you and what you like and if there is one version, you want to add something

[47:19] into the other advice or verse or you like one now or you want to change the definition

[47:24] of like for like I can read them on here if you haven't read them and then also something

[47:29] to think about moving forward is do you as a commission want to authorize or like we know

[47:35] redwood is very expensive and hard to come by we know you don't like pine is the softwood

[47:40] it's not going to last long but it seems like cedar right would be the best fit.

[47:44] So as a group would you guys be okay if wood, meaning only either redwood or cedar, you

[47:52] know, that's something you can vote on, or we can still take it, you know, play by play.

[47:58] And if it is going from redwood to cedar, it would come forward to you, you know, for that.

[48:04] Yeah, any comments right now in feedback on these forms?

[48:07] comments. I have a question. When I look on the computer here, draft one, draft two was

[48:16] we're reversed. I'm looking at draft one here. Yeah, let me fix it. I know you said something about

[48:24] that. I was trying to have pictures so it helped you understand better, but I did that right before

[48:31] meeting.

[48:36] Okay, that should match up now. Yes, it does. Thank you. Sorry. I'm glad I was able to fix it.

[48:42] Okay, it, it, it makes more sense now to me. Thank you very much. A couple of comments.

[48:51] The first question in each form is essentially is this exterior or interior?

[48:57] Yeah, it looks like on the first draft when I talk to Alex about how I got that idea she added that as well.

[49:03] So the first option is asking if it's interior or exterior both, and then really kind of focus.

[49:09] The idea is to focus on the exterior stuff, but to also know if they're doing interior.

[49:13] And they're understood.

[49:15] If I were, if I had no knowledge of what we think about here, and we're dealing with draft one,

[49:22] I would say, I would check the two boxes.

[49:27] Even if it was all interior, I would fill out the rest.

[49:32] So that could be confusing.

[49:35] Second point with regard to draft one, I have a decent idea how to differentiate repair

[49:42] replacement restoration or rehabilitation and I know where you got those terms.

[49:48] But the average person filling out this form is going to scratch their head and say,

[49:52] well, it's all of those things isn't it?

[49:54] I agree.

[49:55] Yeah, I agree.

[49:56] I mean, that's not really even needed.

[49:57] It could be taken out.

[50:02] In terms of the acknowledgement, I like the individual questions because it forces the applicant to think about each one of those individual items,

[50:16] whereas the definition it's all there,

[50:22] but this forces a little bit more thought into the process.

[50:29] I like how on the second one you immediately ask you understand this is a historic property and it's very clear and even bold whereas in the other one

[50:41] It's just kind of lost underneath what kind of work is this so yeah, I'm just making it clear and I agree that certain terms are going to be lost like like for like most people

[50:54] don't even know what it is to begin with.

[50:58] So, yeah, certainly.

[50:59] So we have a couple definitions.

[51:01] I mean, there was all the first version

[51:03] with all the acknowledgment boxes.

[51:07] And then in the second one,

[51:08] which is, there is for the purposes of the like for like statement.

[51:12] It says like for like means of replacement,

[51:14] or repaired feature will match

[51:16] the existing historic feature of material configuration

[51:18] dimensions profile in appearance.

[51:20] A different material is not considered like for like

[51:22] merely because it has a similar appearance.

[51:25] So I mean, this is what we're really kind of

[51:26] hoping with the feedback, or maybe you're thinking

[51:28] in the draft one, the acknowledgement with all

[51:30] those with the one, two, three, four, five,

[51:32] the five boxes, I mean, that's essentially

[51:34] explaining what the like for like means.

[51:36] Also the definitions included at the top

[51:38] under important, but we can be instead of saying

[51:40] important, we can say definition of what like for like is.

[51:44] Or we can switch it and have the historic property

[51:46] knowledgement up there before the property information.

[51:50] Yeah.

[51:53] Other comments.

[51:59] So we kind of like both sort of.

[52:01] Yeah, it's a little combination.

[52:02] Yeah. I think we can do some combining and reworking.

[52:07] Yeah, I think this will help the applicant to

[52:13] understand if they have a willingness to understand.

[52:16] Okay, great. So we could take your feedback, create one version,

[52:20] and then I can bring it forward at the next meeting.

[52:23] If you're comfortable, I could, we could start handing it out, but I think if you believe

[52:31] we have enough time to wait another month, if,

[52:36] if you can use it informally, I believe

[52:39] it would help help the applicant.

[52:41] And that's what we can tell them this might be a form that we're going to get adopted.

[52:45] So here it is, the draft form right now.

[52:47] That's what will help you understand the process, where you have freedom of action and where

[52:51] you've got a seek permission from the commission.

[52:53] And you might be able to see, like, get some user feedback from them, you know, as well.

[53:01] Like, test form.

[53:03] Yeah. Okay. I like that. Thank you.

[53:06] And then is there engaging in the temperature?

[53:07] I mean, is there any, any desire to authorize a substitute would for, for redwood?

[53:15] I think it would depend upon the, the circumstance.

[53:19] Okay.

[53:19] For example, I have a 1956 house which has the rustic siding on it, Redwood of course,

[53:27] because why would you put anything else on it?

[53:30] I did an addition. The addition has the rustic hearty plank board boards, and they are

[53:38] indistinguishable from Redwood, and they're much less expensive. So that particular substitution

[53:44] I would have no problem with dealing with window frames.

[53:50] The question may be more complex and other components.

[53:55] That's just my, but as to your question, I think the discussion is worth having,

[54:01] although I will defer to my fellow commissioners.

[54:12] At the risk of opening a really large conversation,

[54:15] what is it that we're trying to indicate with the preservation of the particular material?

[54:22] If it relates back to the carpentry skills, the carpentry used to create the building,

[54:29] I'm a huge fan of party products.

[54:32] I've installed it on a lot of our modern projects, but it's absolutely one of those things

[54:37] you can't modify with modern job site tools to mimic sighting when you don't have

[54:44] that Arctic matches your existing profile, and it is comprised of silica and Portland

[54:53] cement and paper, some of which are serious health products when you run them through

[54:57] the table saw.

[55:02] So,

[55:05] we dealt with this material subject with our last review on the Pine Street project. And I

[55:15] don't know if we want to rehash that whole thing, but there was hearty lap-siding. There's hearty v-rustic, which comes in the artisan line, which is thicker. There's a, I imagine there's a v-rustic panel product as well.

[55:34] There's a lot of very specific details that make differences when you stack horizontal

[55:40] sighting up.

[55:41] It doesn't always add up to the same exact height as the materials that we were using 140

[55:47] years ago.

[55:49] And that really does change the visual characteristics of the exterior side of the house,

[55:55] especially when done poorly.

[55:57] Yeah. The question is whether when you have something is dimensionally equivalent, whether

[56:04] in what circumstances would it be permitted if I don't?

[56:10] I think what I'm understanding is kind of this not boilerplate, but maybe kind of a generic list.

[56:17] And from what I know about historic homes, I mean part of what makes them so unique is their individual characteristics.

[56:27] and I don't know that you can have a boilerplate anything for these types of homes because they're just so specific to themselves, which is why we exist, and I think that while it may be helpful for homeowners to understand what may be like for like or comparable, coming here or seeking guidance is probably going to be more accurate,

[56:52] it, then giving them a list that they take and misunderstand and find themselves here anyway.

[56:58] Yeah, and I don't think we're asking for a list of a bunch of materials, it's literally

[57:02] like sometimes people come in and they have, you know, what some old wooden sighting that they need to repair

[57:08] or some wooden sashes or something, they need to repair, but it's old, old, you know,

[57:14] redwood deteriorating and they only want to do cedar. So I think that's what, like, simple things like that,

[57:20] not like literally just like if it's redwood and you need to replace it like for like

[57:25] cedar is authorized like I think that's really yeah I don't know if there's any other wood

[57:30] that would be comparable now someone wants to do hardy planks certainly they're coming in

[57:34] you know for your review but I think we were really just looking for guidance on the specific

[57:39] replacing redwood um it's yeah the the the the rot resistant characteristics and the milling

[57:47] characteristics of redwood, old growth redwood, in particular, or just amazing, but of course

[57:52] it's not available anymore. Cedar comes close in terms of its characteristics, although it's

[57:58] not pattern is very different.

[58:02] And pine, this similar in grain structure and not characteristics

[58:08] to Cedar, but it does not last in our environment. You can purchase pressure treated pine,

[58:14] which also doesn't last in our community.

[58:19] There is finger-jointed cedar available.

[58:21] I don't know that I've seen finger-jointed redwood boards available.

[58:27] And there's even a fire-treated redwood finger-jointed product out there that is available.

[58:34] The issue is that the more and more we get into second and third growth forests,

[58:39] we just have less and less rot resistance,

[58:40] and more and more sapwood included.

[58:42] So even sapwood redwood is not rock resistant.

[58:46] And if you ever get into home depot south of here,

[58:49] you'll find redwood in their racks, and it's bright yellow,

[58:53] and it's all sapwood, and it's not rock resistant.

[58:58] So what is it that we're trying to indicate

[59:00] we're preserving with requiring wood in like for like?

[59:07] Well, this is not an issue that's on our agenda officially,

[59:10] so it's now something we're going to...

[59:12] Yeah, just gust of the point of making any decision today.

[59:15] The question for put to us by staff is whether we want to hear a presentation on the

[59:21] issue and perhaps giving that give them some guidance.

[59:24] Yes, I mean, if you adopted it, this form could also include like not only the definition

[59:29] of like for like, but when we say materials, there could be a little asterisk that's like planning

[59:33] commission on this day authorized, cedar for replacement of redwood or something.

[59:38] But we can talk about that another time.

[59:40] That do you want to agenda as a conversation on it?

[59:45] I think that's an important topic for us to cover yet.

[59:48] Okay.

[59:48] All right.

[59:49] And please, your convenience.

[59:55] Anything more?

[59:55] On the two

[59:58] Permetic Announcement.

[1:00:02] And we move on to director's reports and communications or anything further you want to share with us.

[1:00:10] I don't think so, except, you know, we're in the thick of the housing element update. We hired senior planner Kelsey Flittorick. She used to work at the city of Arcada.

[1:00:20] We're really happy to have her so her whole thing is just the housing element. So she did a presentation on outreach efforts regarding her tabling and the workshop that happened, the housing workshop at the Dorney Center.

[1:00:31] I've watched it last night, city council meeting, it's at the beginning of the council meeting,

[1:00:35] if anyone wants to watch it, luckily when they were trying to give this presentation at the

[1:00:38] council meeting before, it was at the end. So they got up to the presentations at the beginning.

[1:00:43] What I thought was interesting was some of the stats statistics that she shared that at the work

[1:00:48] shop meeting a majority of participants for homeowners, but then the majority of participants

[1:00:53] at her tabling, at all the various events for renters. And then I also thought it was interesting

[1:00:59] that I think she's talked to like over a thousand people, so I just think there she's just doing

[1:01:05] a fabulous job with the outreach of the housing element. And then I think on the planning commission

[1:01:09] meeting next Wednesday at 530 they're doing a presentation to them. I'm sorry I can't remember

[1:01:16] the exact topic, but I can keep sharing with you with the next planning commission meeting will hold,

[1:01:22] but it's kind of exciting. So especially since the housing element is going to affect

[1:01:28] Historic Properties and has in the character of the unfortified districts, you know that we have. So

[1:01:34] I believe they will be coming back to you, you know, probably some time to present stuff, but just stay informed if you can

[1:01:42] On the updates. There's also a talk to Rika web page four the housing element already

[1:01:46] But like I said, we learned that we have to go through some training with someone at the city before we can just dive right in and it's kind of involved. So

[1:01:55] And then I think I already told you last time we do have an associate planner that started in mid July, so that's very exciting.

[1:02:01] They're getting up to speed quickly.

[1:02:04] And we did get an application for some changes to the women's club.

[1:02:10] So we'll be bringing that forward in the next month or two.

[1:02:12] I think we just got it.

[1:02:14] Yeah, but I'm going to try to sling it for your October meeting.

[1:02:17] Yeah, it should be before you sub that's so we do have stuff coming up on the agenda

[1:02:23] with who good questions for staff.

[1:02:29] Do any of the commissioners have reports or they want to

[1:02:32] or information they wish to share with the commission.

[1:02:39] Sounds like no. All right. So we enter the

[1:02:43] public comment period. This is the point at which anybody in the real or virtual audience can

[1:02:48] address the commission on a matter with an auger restriction. I don't see anybody on the virtual

[1:02:53] screen. I don't see anybody in the audience. So unless one of you guys wants to run that

[1:02:58] and they're in speak, then the public comment period is adjourned. Yeah, I see any, is there any other

[1:03:05] business before we adjourned? We standard adjourned. Thank you for a time and attention. Yeah, thank you

[1:03:11] very much.

Historic Preservation Commission

Agenda

Transcript