[10:50] We're ready in the chambers. The Fairbanks Burough Assembly

[10:55] joint work session is called to order with the Animal Control Commission.

[10:59] Madame Clerk, will you please call the Animal Control Commission role? Miss

[11:04] Butler.

[11:08] Miss

[11:13] Excuse me. Here,

[11:17] Mr.

[11:25] Swan. Miss Mr. Swan, I'm present. Thank you.

[11:32] Miss Sherman here. Miss Rosenberg here. Miss Olness here. Miss Rudy here. Miss

[11:42] Gardner here. Here is a quorum of the animal control commission. Thank you

[11:46] madam clerk. Will you please call the role for the assembly? Mr. Guttenberg

[11:51] here. Mr. Roderman here. Miss Reese Ramos here. Mr. Lagginus here. Miss

[11:57] Wilson here. Miss Kelly here. Miss Haney? Yes ma'am. Mr. Crass here. Miss

[12:05] O'Neal here, it's quorum of the assembly. Thank you. Uh, tonight we are

[12:12] gathered today to hear from the um animal shelter replacement project an

[12:17] update from the administration and consultant. Um, at this point we'll

[12:23] request an update from Mayor Hopkins and the consultant on the shelter placement

[12:28] project.

[12:32] Thank you, Madam Chair. Faster around. All right. Uh hello everybody. Thank you

[12:36] for coming today um to this joint hearing um regarding the 65% Divi design

[12:42] status for the animal shelter replacement. This uh we're here really

[12:46] because uh the assembly last summer requested an update from the consultants

[12:53] and the design team and the administration when we get to the

[12:57] 65% design status. Um I am no engineer nor an architect. And so if you have a

[13:02] question about what 65% mean versus 35%, please ask the um design team here in

[13:09] the in the staff box what that means because it's not just 65% complete and

[13:13] we've got twothirds of the building designed. It is it is more than that. Um

[13:16] the animal shelter, as we all know, was initially built in 1974 following the 67

[13:21] flood when our animal when our population voted for animal control

[13:25] powers. Since then, our population has doubled and our building is now 50 years

[13:29] old. Happy birthday. The uh KIP back in 2017 and as the the KIP process has

[13:36] moved forward, the capital improvement plan, um the scoring process has rated

[13:40] this in several years ago as the number one needed and rated project of all of

[13:46] the upgrades, um new facilities and um maintenance improvements that we need.

[13:52] And that's why this project has has moved forward um leading to where we are

[13:56] today. Um objectively speaking, I would say we we need a new animal shelter. It

[14:01] is 50 years old and um I was fortunate enough to do a tour with the staff

[14:06] several weeks ago to see what it looks like inside to understand the need for

[14:10] it. um looking at where we we sit today um and the the design that we have, you

[14:16] know, it's a it's a the consultants did a capacity study

[14:23] um with our animal shelter staff looking at the numbers for trying to understand

[14:26] how big of a shelter we needed. Um and we there are no other buildings in town

[14:32] that we have found that were adequate to just refurbish. We looked at Joy

[14:36] Elementary as a possible um remodel for office space and had a consultant um

[14:42] here locally look at that and would have been 22 million just for offices. And

[14:46] this morning the public works team and my office team met with uh Dr. Scott

[14:52] Learned of Design Learned um firm DLI uh Design Learned Inc. to understand some

[14:59] of their comments and and uh ways that they would look at

[15:05] designing a new shelter or addressing um what what they would look at if they

[15:10] were doing a review of other people's designs. And in that conversation we had

[15:14] with them this morning, we talked about what happens if you want to use a new

[15:18] building or use something that's already in place. And he clearly and and

[15:23] unequivocably said as they've done many many many of these, it rarely and almost

[15:28] never pencils out where there's a savings for using a new building. If we

[15:32] were able to repurpose any of the schools that have been closed in our

[15:36] community, they would need to tear down all of the interior of those buildings,

[15:40] pull up the slab, replace all the plumbing and all the HVAC system, and so

[15:44] you'd be left with a shell. And that work rarely in his experience of long

[15:48] time going has ever penned out um to be cheaper than than new construction.

[15:53] Additionally, looking at the schools that the school board will be closing

[15:58] that there are no more schools that we're getting right now. We're not uh

[16:01] just last night the school board voted to keep two rivers. Um they have not

[16:05] decided what they're doing with Pearl Creek and Midnight Sun is um staying in

[16:09] the district usage. So we're not getting new facilities from the school district

[16:12] to be able to use for this. Um one of the during that tour that I had, you

[16:19] could see the problems with the shelter in its 50-year-old lifespan. The cement

[16:23] door jambs were crumbling. There are three different heating systems. The

[16:26] roof is currently a tarp that is held down to the roof. uh is tied down.

[16:31] There's ice damming inside. There's exposed conduit and wire. Um the barn

[16:36] for the animals in the back is very small and surrounded by chainlink fence.

[16:39] That's very dangerous for animals to be there. They keep turtles and rabbits in

[16:43] dog pens. Um the cats uh are housed in the same room where they do euthanasia

[16:48] on cats and other animals. They pull a screen um to be able to provide some

[16:53] separation from the animals as other animals are are euthanized for various

[16:56] reasons there. As we all know, the surgeries are held many times on the

[17:00] floors uh in the the clinic room and the surgery table is a medium-sized sink

[17:06] with a grate over it. The they have a number of capacity problems, but not all

[17:11] the time. Um and and often of different types of animals as well, from rabbits

[17:16] to um puppies to to cats. As I said, uh the Indigo experts and consultants that

[17:23] were brought on as the experts in this structure in this field did a capacity

[17:28] study uh to get to where we are today with the number of cages and and um

[17:34] holdings for the different types of animals that we have. If you want to

[17:37] descri ask questions about that matrix or what they went through, please I I

[17:40] refer their questions to the experts as I am not them. Um the need for a new

[17:44] animal shelter is real. The question is um why do we bring you guys here today

[17:49] and that is to be able to ask the questions that to make the you feel

[17:54] either comfortable or get to a point where you understand why we this

[17:58] building is designed the way that it is. Um we wanted to make sure we brought the

[18:02] consultants up to provide transparency in this process have this large joint

[18:07] hearing to be able to ask any questions you have. There is

[18:12] no time limit on this meeting today. So, we are here

[18:16] until we drop the gavvel at the end of the night. Um, and I think it's

[18:22] important to be able to have these discussions and provide this

[18:25] transparency because oftentimes transparency is the best or sunlight is

[18:30] the best disinfectant. And this is a big project and a big project for our

[18:34] community that many people have voiced support and and concerns and questions

[18:38] about and we want to make sure those questions have an opportunity to be

[18:41] answered. And that's why we're here today. Indigo is here as the design

[18:46] expert. Bennisworth North is the architect to make sure that this

[18:49] building is up to Interior Alaska standards. Um, and we had our

[18:54] conversation with Scott with Dr. Scott Learned this morning to make sure we um

[18:58] were able to field a number of the questions that his name has come up

[19:02] regarding. And early on in the project and up through most of the 35% design

[19:07] phase, uh the design team and our public works department and our shelter and

[19:12] animal control staff worked with a woman named Dr. Kate Hurley um for most of

[19:17] that work and she is uh the person that wrote the ASV which is the American shel

[19:22] shelter veterinarian standards of which standards across the country or shelters

[19:26] across the country are built to. Um she is no longer part of this project so you

[19:29] won't see her name on it. Um and uh that had to do with when we added drop off

[19:36] shel nighttime drop off shelters. That is against that ASV code um for other

[19:39] standard areas. But um so much of the design on the floor plan was built with

[19:43] the expert on hand, but I do not want to break her our promise to her to not give

[19:48] her to to keep her name off of this project in

[19:51] general. Um we currently, as discussed during the capital improvement plan um

[19:56] meetings that we had, there's no current plan when we will build this building.

[20:00] I'm not moving forward with a appropriation appropriating ordinance

[20:04] next week. Um we can work with the assembly if that's the decision that the

[20:08] nine of you want to go with um and what that time frame looks like if this is

[20:11] the right project for it. Um but I wanted to make sure we had the

[20:14] transparency for it as we move forward this conversation on a needed

[20:20] replacement of the shelter that we have. Um uh we've talked a lot about school

[20:24] funding and the needs for projects all across the bureau, but the money for

[20:27] this facility is still there in the CIPMR fund. Um fortunately earning

[20:33] revenue to be able to put towards projects in the future, but um also

[20:37] still there for an assembly to make this decision as we all work together to move

[20:40] forward. That's all I've got for an opening here, but I want to make sure I

[20:43] also thank um design um Indigo for coming up um to be a part of this

[20:49] presentation tonight to support our community and this decision as we move

[20:52] forward as well as Bedworth North for all the work that you guys have done um

[20:56] up to this point uh on this project as well as Dr. Cole for being here to talk

[21:01] um about the uh impacts or opinion and viewpoint from the private sector and um

[21:07] veterinarians here and across the bureau. So, uh, thank you for that and

[21:12] able to answer the few questions that I am able to answer, uh, before I pass it

[21:15] off to, um, all of you and the experts themselves. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor

[21:19] Hopkins, Assembly Member Gotenberg. Yeah, thank you, Mayor. Um, you've come

[21:25] late to this and you've seen the broad general picture. So, maybe the first

[21:30] question to ask is what is the perception that is usable

[21:35] life left on the existing fac? Is it next year? Is it five years? What is

[21:41] your perception? And then you can pass it off.

[21:45] Um I I'm not as I am no engineer nor architect. Like I said, the our

[21:50] Department of Public Works might have a better answer on that. Um there are I do

[21:53] know that there are things that are not fixable. The roof is not something that

[21:57] we can continue to put more work and more energy and money into. And it is

[22:01] literally a green tarp tied down to the roof. um it is a matter of time versus

[22:07] um uh a set date on when it's needed. Plus just the simple

[22:14] um uh problems with the facilities, the exposed conduit, the flow, the um safety

[22:19] of um the animals in there, uh everything like that, the the staff

[22:24] needs, the public needs are no longer up to to code and placement. So, um I could

[22:29] not give you a a hard deadline on when the building would be unusable. Um that

[22:35] might be a question for public works or for um the experts here, but this code

[22:40] the scoring system in the kit process rated at number one and that was why it

[22:43] has moved forward to this point that like you said I came late to the game

[22:46] too. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions from the animal commission or

[22:52] from the assembly? Okay. Looks like we're ready for the

[22:56] presentation.

[23:00] Great. Thank you. Um uh first I'll introduce myself. Um Tracy

[23:06] Vanerdo. I'm the president of Betworth North Architects and I'll speak a little

[23:10] bit more about our credentials and our commitment to this uh project and to

[23:15] this um to our community here. Um the agenda that the mayor and our clients

[23:21] through the public works have asked us to cover and update is u a bit about

[23:25] ourselves. So, we'll do that, Bruce and I are in particular, and then talk a bit

[23:30] about the purpose of this project and um Dr. Cole will be speaking on behalf of

[23:35] the of her um uh assessment of the um the benefits of this new shelter. Um and

[23:43] then, um Kimberly will be speaking about the existing facility, maybe a bit more

[23:48] detail about the existing conditions that they're practicing in. We'll

[23:51] highlight on the process that we've been through since we were awarded this

[23:54] project. and um the the uh amount of effort and meetings and progression and

[24:01] I'll speak to that bit succession of how we work with the bureau through a 35%

[24:05] design 65% 95 and 100. We're right now in the middle of the 95% development. So

[24:11] I'll speak to more about that and we'll present the design to you with the site

[24:15] amenities and the medicine and care specific design considerations that we

[24:19] put into this project will be covered by Bruce. Um and then we'll close and and

[24:25] like the mayor mentioned, we're um then open for questions. Now, this is our

[24:29] first meeting in a series of tour we're on. Tomorrow night, we'll be um

[24:34] presenting at the open house, so hopefully folks can join us

[24:41] there. So, like I mentioned, I'm Tracy Vanerdale. I'm uh born and raised here

[24:45] in Fairbanks, and I'm proud to be the president of a firm that has a legacy of

[24:50] over years. Um, we have offices in Fairbanks and Anchorage. I, um, manage

[24:56] the Fairbanks office. We have landscape architects, architects, and interior

[25:00] designers. And with me here tonight, I have my business partner, Mark Kimmer,

[25:05] as well as our director of interior design, Dana Nun, and um, Genevie

[25:09] Bologone is also um, the project manager who has um, led this project through

[25:16] inception. And then also with me is Bruce, and you'll be hearing a bit more

[25:19] about him. as we go through this. Um, a little bit

[25:24] more about Betazworth North. We do work across the state. We only do work in

[25:29] Alaska. This is our home. We are going to be here when this project is

[25:32] constructed and operated. And that's um a a real commitment that we take

[25:38] strongly um and pride in in our projects. So, burrow projects we've done

[25:44] across since I started with the company in 1997. Um, a myriad of schools. Randy

[25:50] Smith, Denali, Nordale, Ryan, we did the North Pole Library. We did several

[25:56] iterations of renovations at your Noling Library, including the most recent one.

[26:00] Um, and it's really been a privilege working with your public works

[26:03] department because they're um, they're not only creative and um, holistic in

[26:09] understanding what first costs are versus life cycle costs like what is it?

[26:13] Is it sustainable, maintainable, resilient design decisions because they

[26:20] know from the operations side. Um but also we've been involved in many of our

[26:25] public and civic projects in in Fairbanks in particular like the um

[26:29] Fairbanks International Airport where we had 17 specialty consultants helping

[26:33] that with the multi-phase as many of you probably remember how many phases it had

[26:38] to go through to stay operational very complicated very technical um we rely on

[26:42] specialists to help us with that similarly on the uh central kitchen of

[26:48] image there on the slide um for your school district we had a kitchen

[26:51] consultant help us with that. Heavily um complex with equipment needs

[26:56] um HVAC, ventilation, drains, um freezers, that sort of thing. We rely on

[27:02] specialists. So um uh again, another example there is the Fairbanks Memorial

[27:08] Hospital surgery edition that we completed a few years ago. um highly

[27:12] specialized, highly medical um and we rely on on team members that are share

[27:17] our same values and are collaborative and best in the best. Um so with that um

[27:23] we are we were privileged to um team with Bruce and his colleagues to ensure

[27:30] that this project not only served um uh the community exact needs. That's very

[27:36] important to us that this is appropriate for this place and this purpose. We know

[27:41] Fairbanks is unique. Um we are special, but we also want to recognize what are

[27:47] the highest um standards and best in care in both the people and the animals

[27:52] that we serve here. So I'll turn it over to Bruce. Thank you, Tracy. So we're

[27:57] pleased to bring our animal shelter design expertise to the project and to

[28:02] you here in Fairbanks. And I think uh one of our distinguishing

[28:08] uh marks is that we work closely with basically the world's leading shelter

[28:14] medicine expert that is the UC Davis shelter medicine program the paret

[28:19] program and that's where um Dr. Hurley and Dr. Wagner as the mayor mentioned

[28:24] earlier have been involved in the project. So our mantra is that we only

[28:30] work with the best practices that are attributed to animal shelters and we

[28:36] operate from our office in Davis, California and most of our work is in

[28:41] the western United States and Australia. Next slide.

[28:47] So that's me and uh um it just gives a a synopsis of work that I've done in the

[28:55] past and been part of over the years with experience and we've been doing

[29:01] this for over 20 years. I'm licensed right now in California, Oregon,

[29:06] Washington, Alaska, and New South Wales, Australia. Next slide.

[29:13] I'm going to turn it over um to Dr. Cole in just a minute. Maybe just

[29:19] to point out a few of the projects that we've worked on that come to mind. Uh

[29:23] we're currently assisting the Juno Animal Rescue Group a little farther

[29:28] south state. And as you work down the coast a bit, we have uh projects in

[29:34] Washington State. Seattle Feline Rescue comes to mind. And um a little farther

[29:40] south with Oregon, we also have consulted with Josephine County. That's

[29:46] the Medford area. And in California, we have any number of different shelter

[29:51] clients that we've worked with and for designing and building shelters all the

[29:56] way from Dema County, which is in the north part of the Sacramento Valley,

[30:01] down through the Bay Area and Southern California. So that's we figured, you

[30:06] know, that's a big terrain plus Alaska and Australia, that's enough. We we'd

[30:12] like to choose carefully the shelters that we work on where we feel we can

[30:16] have the big impact in bringing these practices, best practices to your

[30:21] project. So without further ado, that's a lot of ado. I'll turn it over to Dr.

[30:25] Cole.

[30:31] Okay. Um, so my name is Dr. Dr. Barb Cole. Uh, I am the owner of Aurora

[30:36] Animal Hospital. I've been a veterinarian in this community for 17

[30:40] years now and I've been the owner of Aurora of Aurora for 13 years,

[30:45] continuing a 50-year legacy of this practice. Um, when I first moved to

[30:50] Fairbanks, one of the things that really struck me was I was really impressed by

[30:53] the services that the animal shelter provided for this community, especially

[30:58] compared to other communities that I've lived in, some with public animal

[31:01] shelters and some without. Um, in addition, over my 25-y year career, I've

[31:07] witnessed witnessed a significant evolution in animal care within the

[31:12] veterary profession, within our communities, within our households, and

[31:15] within shelter and rescue environments. Um, I think we all know that the current

[31:20] FNSB animal shelter is antiquated and unable to meet the needs of our

[31:24] community. The conditions are unsafe, they're unsanitary, they're outdated,

[31:28] and they're very stressful for the animals and the humans. Aurora Animal

[31:32] Hospital uh just recently underwent a major facility upgrade. Um our original

[31:37] building had served us well for over 45 years. I believe it was built in 1975

[31:42] also. Um but we needed more space and more features and so in uh 2023 we moved

[31:47] to our new location. It was a renovated building um but it was designed to be a

[31:52] modern veterary hospital. And I think this experience gives me a unique

[31:56] perspective here on the importance of investing in modern facilities.

[32:01] Um, I have had the opportunity to review the plans for the new shelter with the

[32:04] staff. Uh, and I do feel that this project needs to move forward. The new

[32:08] design addresses critical issues and brings our community shelter up to

[32:11] current standards of care. The design incorporates features that will

[32:15] significantly reduce animal stress such as designated an areas for the exotic

[32:20] animals, separation between the cat and dog housing, and kennel designs that

[32:24] provide more space for the individual animals. Decreased stress will also

[32:28] improve the quality of life for the animals, the staff, the volunteers, and

[32:32] for visitors. The the proposed new facility

[32:36] is not designed to be a full-fledged veterary hospital, but it is designed to

[32:39] provide basic veterary care, including spays and neuters in a modern and

[32:43] sanitary environment. We did do a little bit of a comparison, and the planned

[32:48] surgery suite in the new shelter is roughly half the size of mine in my new

[32:53] building. So, I don't think it's extra extravagant. I do feel it's

[32:56] appropriately sized for the shelter's needs. Um it is important to realize

[33:00] that a modernized facility has the likelihood of reducing the time to

[33:04] adoption. So that will help increase the overall adoption rate and improved post

[33:09] adoption success. I can attest also that by having a properly designed and

[33:14] constructed facility, it it really really improves the ability to retain

[33:18] and attract qualified staff, especially professional staff. Um, the public will

[33:24] also have a greater interest in visiting the

[33:26] facility. I agree that this is a significant expense for our community

[33:30] and I wish it wasn't necessary. However, I do feel that if we're going to invest

[33:34] in a new shelter, it needs to be done properly, properly, and with a vision

[33:38] for the future. This facility needs to serve our community for decades to come.

[33:44] I urge you to support the new animal shelter design. This is an investment in

[33:47] the well-being of our community's animals and a commitment to providing

[33:50] them with the care that they deserve.

[34:01] Next, we were just going to highlight a few um pictures and Kimberly was going

[34:05] to walk us through some of the operations of the current clinic.

[34:07] Thanks. Um good evening. I'm Kimberly Amber, the shelter operations

[34:12] supervisor. Um I'm here tonight to quickly speak on the current state of

[34:16] our building. Um and many of you have heard me speak on this before, so it's

[34:20] just a quick recap. Um, I've worked with animal at animal control at this

[34:23] building since 2011. So, I'm quite familiar with the challenges that we

[34:28] face every day. The original building was constructed with the purpose of

[34:32] rabies control, empoundment, and euthanasia being the focus. Since then,

[34:37] um, at that time, shelter guidelines did not exist. And since then, our services

[34:41] have evolved to also prioritize quality care, community services, and live

[34:45] outcomes. Um, our existing facility has been added on and remodeled to multiple

[34:51] times since original construction. As you can see in these pictures, the roof

[34:55] is not in great condition, as the mayor mentioned, and it's been modified in

[34:59] attempts to keep it functional. Uh, the outdoor kennels that you see are for all

[35:03] dogs in our care to eliminate. Uh, this is problematic as they cannot be

[35:08] sanitized and we do not have a way to truly isolate sick animals away from

[35:12] each other. And that is a problem in also the cat area and the exotics

[35:17] area. Um what you will also notice in many of these pictures is the pipes in

[35:21] various types of corridors on the or on the walls inside and outside the

[35:24] building and along the ceilings. Finishes are failing. Drains frequently

[35:28] back up. Doorways, floors, and parts of the walls are crumbling. All making it

[35:32] very labor intensive to achieve quality care and sanit quality animal care and

[35:36] sanitation. At the beginning of this project, we had a three-day workshop

[35:41] with the design team and their experts who are presenting today. It was

[35:44] enlightening to learn from their experience how the shelter guidelines

[35:48] and best practices would be implemented in a new facility. It's totally

[35:52] different to try to make them fit into a current facility that isn't built for

[35:55] those things. Um, our current facility is cramped, uh, does not have a good

[36:00] workflow, and most spaces have many functions that shouldn't be combined,

[36:04] such as surgery, euthanasia, and quarantine cat area.

[36:08] One major stress stressor to our animal staff and the people that we serve are

[36:13] that all animals enter the shelter through the same room which you can see

[36:16] here on the left. Um and that is consequently very busy. The room that is

[36:21] used as a surgery room was not designed for that specialty function which is a

[36:25] great hindrance to our care and to our shelter veterinarian. As you can see

[36:29] here, some surgeries must take place on the floor. Our old building cannot

[36:34] accommodate standard surgery equipment, which means that attracting

[36:37] veterinarians graduating now or in the future is

[36:40] unlikely. Due to the building being added on to multiple times, the

[36:45] maintenance needs are spread out in multiple rooms. These rooms are

[36:49] completely full of the equipment needed to keep the building functioning.

[36:52] Seasonal changes such as springtime really highlight our building's

[36:55] weaknesses, such as maintaining ideal temperatures throughout the building.

[37:00] There is not a shortage of urgent work orders being sent to our maintenance

[37:04] department. I'm filled with hope for how much better we can improve our services

[37:08] when I look at the new building design and I hope you are too.

[37:16] Thank you, Kimberly. Um I wanted to review those project goals that were

[37:21] outlined initially um boy quite a while ago when we started on this project but

[37:26] they became our guiding light as we made tough decisions on right sizing this

[37:31] facility or making economical decisions to get it within um the cost

[37:35] constraints. So the first desire was to prioritize the properly functioning

[37:40] shelter space like Kimberly mentioned optimizing the size for animal care and

[37:45] capacity to provide for all required staff functions and responsibility

[37:49] throughout the building and the majority of which goes on beyond behind the

[37:53] scenes. The second was to dedicate and specifically design the space including

[37:57] indoor and outdoor housing care of distinct and separate animal types and

[38:01] conditions. We're going to walk you through the plan to show how we've done

[38:04] that both in the um care and management of the housing, but also in the flow of

[38:10] traffic um to and out of the facility to especially to the outdoor um exercise

[38:16] and uh yeah pens. And then third, a design solution that is efficient and

[38:21] maintainable. And this is um a constant with working with Fairbanks Northstar

[38:26] Bureau Public Works. It's that resiliency of making good decisions um

[38:31] now so that you can afford to maintain and operate in the future.

[38:41] So we we've mentioned a couple times now the Association of Shelter Veterinarians

[38:46] guidelines for the standards of care in animal shelters. And by the way, they

[38:50] have a companion document for the subarctic conditions in Canada to

[38:55] implement these very same um docu requirements. So what are they?

[39:02] They are standards for the care and welfare of companion

[39:05] animals based on scientific evidence and expert consensus. They are guidelines to

[39:12] reduce overcrowding, stress in animals disease and improve the safety and also

[39:19] the outcome of those

[39:22] animals. I thought for today's um meeting it might be useful to just look

[39:27] at the number five. As it turns out, the five domains that are outlined in the

[39:32] ASV guidelines are nutrition, environment, health, opportunity, and

[39:37] mental state. So basically their guidelines are intended to support each

[39:41] one of these elements. There is also the ASPCA

[39:46] guidelines or five freedoms as they call it which actually they didn't these are

[39:51] ones you've probably heard before but they didn't actually create these. They

[39:55] were created by a small animal care council in the UK many years ago but

[40:01] they've stood the test of time. So they're they're the freedoms. freedom

[40:05] from hunger and thirst, freedom from discomfort, freedom from pain, freedom

[40:10] to express normal behavior, and freedom from fear and distress. So it would be

[40:16] the goal of any shelter to try to support all of these

[40:21] things. And the way we do that, and I've sort of selected five premier elements

[40:26] of your design to make sure that we can get there. The first is to implement

[40:32] capacity for care. Capacity for care uh is involves determining the correct

[40:39] number of housing units and the infrastructure to support it so that you

[40:43] can handle the anticipated number of animals to be um taken in but not so

[40:49] much that you overload the shelter. It's a very common phenomena that if you

[40:54] build a shelter too big, guess what? The animals will come and and if you don't

[41:00] have the staff and the cost of staff, by the way, to support all that, then the

[41:06] animals length of stay we call it in the shelter gets longer and longer and it

[41:11] can just sort of feed on itself and create a very, you know, not very good

[41:15] outcome. That's very important and you have the blessing of an excellent staff

[41:20] here who who is a director who's doing minor miracles with um what you have to

[41:25] work with now. Their average length of stay is six days for animals, dogs and

[41:31] cats and that's excellent for the type of facility that they're operating from.

[41:36] Well, enough already on implement capacity of care. That's number one.

[41:40] Let's Oh, yeah. Let's just quickly I'm just going to hit these other items, but

[41:45] the second one actually is very important to efficient pathways and

[41:48] separation of species. That's a critical function of the shelter. And I'll show

[41:52] you how we've designed for that and an area in which the current shelter fails

[41:57] because it was never designed for that. And over the years, they've just had to

[42:01] make multiple uses of many different spaces. Third is double compartment

[42:06] housing for cats and dogs. This is very important because of two things. One,

[42:13] nature has provided us all humans and animals alike with the concept of of

[42:19] hygiene. And so for animals, it means you want one side of the kennel to be

[42:24] provided for uh living, eating, sleeping, and through a transfer door.

[42:30] The other side is basically the bathroom. I mean it doesn't work out

[42:34] that way all the time but it does often enough to where that's an important

[42:38] ingredient in the animals well-being while being held by humans. Four is we

[42:44] of course we want to promote adoption keep length of stay low and also very

[42:50] importantly not forget the people that are taking care of the animal. They have

[42:54] to have the right tools and spaces and adjacencies to be able to do that.

[42:58] Sorry, next slide Stacey. Um yeah, and in terms of thermal comfort

[43:04] and animal health, particularly important in subarctic regions, the ASV

[43:10] guidelines call for uh 30 to 70% relative humidity. So it' be ideal to

[43:17] have a humidification system in the project and one is included as an

[43:21] alternative additive alternative. We can talk about that later. And then the

[43:26] environmental um temperature control needs to be between 64 and 80. And of

[43:31] course, that varies depending, but you want to be in that

[43:35] sweet spot somewhere. And this would be the best possible heating uh system

[43:40] using a mix of radiant hydronic heating in the floor and airbased heating in the

[43:46] air. So, it gives you the benefit of both of those and we can talk about that

[43:50] later.

[43:56] Thanks, Bruce. And I'll just mention that the your double compartment um

[44:00] description of the kennel is taped out there on the floor in front of you on

[44:03] the right. The existing um kennel size is there on the

[44:09] left. So we want to u touch base on the process. Like I mentioned, we've been

[44:13] working on this for two years now. Um had some pause in there. Um but we're

[44:21] eager to be uh producing on a 95% document which will be um you know all

[44:28] of the construction detailing all of the equipment. We're doing the fixtures,

[44:32] furnishing and equipment as well. So it's a very detailed package that the

[44:36] bureau will have here in the coming weeks for their review. The bureau takes

[44:41] a few weeks in between each submitt to do their review and come back with

[44:45] comments and we go through a burough process of um what is to be included,

[44:49] what is to be revised and what's to be removed and we do that in segments along

[44:53] the way. That's the bureau um um practice that's the way they implement

[44:59] most of their projects and it is our industry standard. So there's concept

[45:02] involved that's about 10% complete then a 35% which I think a lot of folks um h

[45:09] saw and was presented out about a year ago with a series of open houses and

[45:14] public meetings um and then we completed through a 65% which really gets into

[45:19] more details and then again each one of these has a review period of a a number

[45:27] of weeks that the public works the stakeholders

[45:31] all uh reviewed um and then gave us comments and we uh gave were given a

[45:37] notice to proceed into the next phase. Um an example of this process is um a

[45:42] bit of a reminder to have maybe have your eyes checked is that chart on the

[45:46] left. I'm sorry it's not very um readable. Um yeah. Well, so the if you

[45:51] just squint over the colors, the orange um highlighted in there, this is just a

[45:56] snippet of one of those phases from 65 to 95 where we met. Every orange color

[46:03] is a meeting with the leadership and the public works department. So over this

[46:07] process, we counted up all of those times and it was 21 meetings of review

[46:14] um coordination, collaboration, site visits, um and such.

[46:19] And so some of these images show how those meetings went with Dr. Pinto and

[46:25] and her colleagues and staff. Um Sandy meetings at the we were up in the

[46:29] mayor's office like um uh Bruce mentioned earlier for a number of days.

[46:35] we were at our office, we were at public works office at the shelter. So, um it's

[46:41] very important that we uh our process includes, you know, a bit of discovery

[46:46] and investigation, but also listening and learning and then looping that back

[46:51] to, you know, review to solutions and review and that we do that all along the

[46:56] way. So, um I appreciate everyone's time that have contributed to this because

[47:02] it's um it is important that we get it right and it's a collaboration and it's

[47:07] truly your building um and it needs to represent the needs.

[47:13] Um so with Luke and Sandy and Kimberly and Dr. Pinto leading um those

[47:20] stakeholder me meetings. It was very informative and

[47:23] um so that's a little snapshot of the process.

[47:29] Um and then we wanted to go um over the design. And by the way, all the images

[47:37] of these animals that I put in here, they're Trip, Cleo, Penny, Latia, Silas,

[47:43] Zulu, Katon, Clooney, Isabella, have all been adopted except Penny, who is the

[47:48] husky, not on this photo, but the first photo. So, I'm proud to say that in just

[47:52] a number of weeks there out of the shelter. So, I'll turn it over to Mark

[47:57] to talk a bit about the site amenities. Thanks, Tracy. Um, hello everyone. My

[48:03] name is Mark Cameron. I'm a landscape architect with Bettersworth North. As

[48:07] Tracy mentioned, I'm a business partner and work out of Anchorage. Um, despite

[48:12] my Anchorage status, I figured that a lion share of our favorite projects for

[48:17] landscape architecture have actually been in Fairbanks. uh Ryan Elementary

[48:22] School or Middle School, uh Chief Andrew Isaac Health Center, numerous projects

[48:27] on Fort Wayne to include hangers, uh company operations facilities, barracks,

[48:33] a child development center and housing, and then the uh Pioneer Park master plan

[48:39] uh that was adopted a few years ago uh was our work and we're real proud of

[48:44] that and are quite familiar with working in Fairbanks and super happy to be here

[48:48] to on this site tonight. Um, so this slide there's an overall the red is the

[48:55] overall site. It's south central in town in the community in the burrow. So it's

[49:00] a great location uh for access by folks uh that are visiting and by staff uh via

[49:07] the old rich. The uh zoning is general use uh

[49:12] which is appropriate. Again, the site and adjacent uses uh we feel are uh

[49:17] outstanding for this type of use due to the incinerator

[49:21] uh barking, some other sounds you might hear as well as potential o uh odors. Uh

[49:27] it's approximately 5 acres in size. All the appropriate utility connectivity was

[49:33] there. Uh it has great sight uh soil conditions and Tracy mentioned one of

[49:40] the drivers before was safety and security. So we this this project

[49:46] provides that uh by being able to provide outdoor space for the dogs and

[49:54] other animals like horses, goats. I I guess those are exotics. Uh but it's a

[50:01] it's far superior to the current situation. The site plan that

[50:07] Tracy put up on the screen uh shows the building in blue. Uh, I think a lot of

[50:12] you folks are familiar with what this looks like, but we've divided the site

[50:17] design up into two distinct zones. To the upper left is the public zone. So,

[50:23] you can see an arrival drive off Leisure Street. Um, good wayfinding. There'll be

[50:29] a wayfinding sign as you come in, a drop off right at the main entry, and then,

[50:34] uh, 31 parking spaces uh, available for visitors. Uh the neat thing about this

[50:40] site and its size is that you can actually look into the future. So we can

[50:43] actually and have planned if necessary to expand that parking out to uh add uh

[50:50] it up to 44 spaces. Uh the other entry off of

[50:55] Leisure Street accesses the uh staff area. So there's staff parking in the

[51:00] number of 31 spaces or I'm sorry 30. Uh there's a a digital gate uh with

[51:07] controller the entire back part of that site. You can see from the north corner

[51:12] of the building all the way around to the south uh west corner of the building

[51:15] that dark line that goes on the edge of the site is 8 foot high chain link

[51:19] fencing that does have privacy slats in it. And there's other fenced areas

[51:24] within there. Um, but we've made it so the vehicular

[51:29] circulation and pedestrian circulation for public and staff are totally

[51:34] separate. Uh, the the area in the back has ample storage for the containers.

[51:40] the shelter currently stores uh materials in their trailers. And there's

[51:45] also space for uh good snow clearing uh operations and snow storage down in that

[51:51] south corner. And then out in the the bigger main area in the um northeast

[51:57] corner, uh

[52:02] the some things that Bruce will mention here in a bit in terms of circa

[52:08] circulation and separation of public and staff. Uh you'll see that on the

[52:12] interior as well. Uh and with this the staff has direct access to kennel rooms

[52:18] and to the pens uh or the animals rather have direct access out into that back

[52:23] area for exercise and the stalls for the uh

[52:28] exotics are appropriately sized uh compared to what they have uh now in

[52:34] particular. That's all I have for the site. U thanks for your time and I'll

[52:38] pass it back to Tracy. Thanks Mark. um for orientation

[52:44] purposes, imagine this building that you're seeing now at an angle is now

[52:48] when you start seeing the plans, we rotated it um so so we could get as

[52:53] large as possible on this slide. So that while that north entry is up there for

[52:57] the public, let's say the south is more the private and staff, we're rotating

[53:01] that 45 degrees clockwise. Um but first we wanted to

[53:07] show you um a current rendering of the exterior. It's um basically a

[53:14] rectangular box and we were directed to remove the clear story um for cost

[53:19] consideration. So that has been removed. We have simplified the entry main canopy

[53:24] while still providing a lighted protected entry sequence for this public

[53:28] um uh you know entity of a of a facility. We have a a long drop off lane

[53:35] there at the front curb accessible parking just out of this image. Um uh

[53:41] the idea was to accommodate open houses and fairs and rabies clinics clinics and

[53:46] such so that the parking sort of accommodated some of those

[53:55] uses. So as Tracy mentioned now the plan is rotated so we're looking at it left

[54:01] to right. I'm glad you pointed that out Tracy because that can be a little mind

[54:06] bender if you're not used to doing these things. Uh I mentioned earlier that we

[54:11] had one of the key features is separation of species and efficient

[54:16] pathways in the building. These are hugely important for animal shelters.

[54:21] And what we've given you here is a design that's optimized in that regard.

[54:26] The entire um building is designed around these flow pathways which ensure

[54:32] that the spaces that we provide are going to be in the right location and

[54:36] serve the shelter in the best way. The green arrows are public access. So up

[54:42] there in the upper right says public access. That's the public entry that

[54:46] Tracy just showed an image of. So the public will come in at that point.

[54:50] They'll be greeted by an ample reception area. All the buildings have vestibules

[54:55] on them for climatic concerns. And when you're in the reception area, there's an

[55:01] opportunity to go right and you're cat award, so to speak. If you go left,

[55:07] you're on in the dog uh environment. And so those two things have to be separated

[55:12] and they are in the shelter design. The the public also has access to a

[55:17] community meeting room which can be made available after the shelter hours are

[55:22] over. You can hold meetings in that room and those have direct access out to dog

[55:29] run. So, for example, if you have an animal education class, you can take

[55:34] animals right out into a yard space and try out what you learned in that class.

[55:39] Meanwhile, on the other end of the facility, there is a public access

[55:42] specifically for night drop, and that's a green arrow there. There's a separate

[55:47] room for that. Other than that, the idea is to basically, and what makes this

[55:52] plan so unique, I think, is it's very simple. It's a rectangular plan and we

[55:58] have the public on one end and the staff on the other. Sounds like rocket

[56:02] science, right? But you'd be surprised how many plans evolve into something

[56:08] more than that and it gets doesn't get better. I'll put it that way. We've

[56:12] managed and Bettisworth has been great to work with us on that is keep this

[56:16] plan exceptionally simple and design it entirely around these flows. Only in

[56:21] that way do you end up with a really functional facility. There's um 10

[56:26] quarantine dog kennels located, five ice uh isolation dog kennels, four 24 flex

[56:33] adoption kennels, and there's a future potential or if it's done with the al

[56:39] design additive alternate six on the end of the building. Other concepts here

[56:45] briefly would be that accomplishers officers can bring animals in from the

[56:51] left where it says staff access uh and it would be through an Sallyport if uh

[56:56] that's enacted as also an additive alternate and those animals can be

[57:01] brought directly back to the quarantine area where they can be admitted and put

[57:05] in a cage and then the acco that access is available 24 hours.

[57:13] Lastly, I would just mention that we have placed we've managed to place this

[57:18] sounds a little crazy too, but the central food laundry area in the center

[57:23] of the building. And that's important because that's where immediate access

[57:28] and and convenience can be provided to all the staff. A lot of it will be off

[57:32] of carts. They can replenish in that location and get quickly either to cat

[57:37] housing or dog housing. A common mistake on shelters um even from those that

[57:43] should know better is they put that back by the loading dock so to speak and

[57:47] that's the worst place to put it because now you forever condemn the facility to

[57:51] be served with a long run to the back of the facility. Meanwhile, you only have

[57:56] deliveries every so often. So it makes sense and you have to plan it this way

[58:00] beginning. Um let's look at the next slide then.

[58:06] This plan, this is the same plan, but it shows reveals the walls and furnishing

[58:11] and caging a bit better. And you can see the dog kennels in the lower run there

[58:16] along central corridor. And then there's a secondary corridor that I mentioned up

[58:21] above where cats would access. The medical treatment area for the shelter

[58:27] is located just above that last set of dog kennels, the quarantine dog kennels.

[58:33] And then lastly, there's acco on the upper left corner and um the night drop

[58:40] room is highlighted in color there on that end of the building and again that

[58:43] has public access and would be available after

[58:47] hours. Uh next slide. So here we have a view of the reception area. There'll be

[58:54] multiple stations there and public would be perceived these days and your shelter

[59:00] is operated more ever since the pandemic more on an appointment basis which is

[59:06] good practice to prevent overcrowding in in reception areas like this and also

[59:12] serves to separate species. Some shelters you'll go to the dogs and cats

[59:16] intermingling in the foyer. It's not a great thing. So here that can be managed

[59:21] through an appointmentbased system. Next one. Okay. So here is the

[59:27] drop off kennel, the night drop. And there's sort of a transparent view of it

[59:32] on the left, that three-dimensional view which shows that you've come in the

[59:37] building um through a public door. And there's five kennels located there where

[59:43] presumably a dog would be left at left in one of those kennels and it locks

[59:49] behind itself. So once the dog is in there, it can't be uh stolen later.

[59:54] Sadly, that's a phenomena with animal shelters is animals get stolen. So we

[59:59] don't want that to happen. The picture on the upper right is the existing drop

[1:00:04] off aging. It's sort of a pass through solution. I think this room that's been

[1:00:09] developed is a much superior one. For one thing, you can have an access door

[1:00:13] as shown in that 3D diagram into the room from the staff area of the U

[1:00:22] shelter. And this this slide's a good one because it reveals the benefit of

[1:00:27] the double uh housing for dogs. So, these are the dog kennels. And I I

[1:00:33] didn't mention the second benefit of double-sided tenneling, which is you can

[1:00:38] move the animal in one side and you can clean the other side, reducing staff.

[1:00:44] And did I mention that? Well, anyway, you it reduces the stress in the

[1:00:49] animal and makes the shelter easier to clean because there's less handling of

[1:00:53] the animal. And that's been proven in in studies um in part by UC Davis. I might

[1:00:59] mention the number of kennels. Um there are 39 kennels to be provided and

[1:01:05] importantly they are all double-sided kennels. They are all larger and they

[1:01:11] all have the proper environmental controls, the proper sanitary

[1:01:15] drainage. They are um altogether different than the the

[1:01:21] kennels you have now. So you can't really compare existing to new without

[1:01:25] talking about the separate functions for quarantine, isolation, and flex

[1:01:31] adoption. So you got this is a really solid set of kenneling for your shelter.

[1:01:36] I will turn it back to Tracy. By the way, we're almost done in case any

[1:01:40] wondering. Tracy, um thanks Bruce. I want to um

[1:01:46] identify two of the four additive alternates. these design alternates,

[1:01:53] these options, should we be able to afford them, they constructed in line

[1:01:58] and in sequence with the project. Um, two of them are physical elements there.

[1:02:02] Noted on the far left is the Sallyport, this drive-thru garage bay, um, which

[1:02:08] would be greatly beneficial for the acco um, for unloading and loading of

[1:02:13] animals. Um, and it fits a trailer and within there and direct access inside

[1:02:19] the facility. And then the other is the addition of six um double compartment

[1:02:24] kennels which again in the emergency case could be used for 12 smaller

[1:02:28] kennels and an additional um get acquainted room there on the far right.

[1:02:34] So you know should that be afforded that could that whole wing right there could

[1:02:39] be dedicated just to puppies for example or to a to something in need if should

[1:02:43] you get a flock of chickens or something. I don't know. Seems like some

[1:02:49] anything goes sometimes, doesn't it? Um so um those are things that we design,

[1:02:54] we hope for, we prioritize with public works input and direction. Um the

[1:03:00] humidification is also another one of those desirable features because of the

[1:03:04] guideline information. and then also additional um uh finishes um we we um

[1:03:12] identified as opportunities that invest into um while still considering the

[1:03:18] budget and constraints. So um uh we're happy to answer questions on

[1:03:25] all of those but I just wanted to highlight on those additional design

[1:03:28] considerations that we have implemented design. So, um, and Bruce talked a

[1:03:34] little bit about the capacity. Um, so that capacity analysis was done over a

[1:03:39] five-year analysis. Um, it also included the community size and projection

[1:03:46] considerations into this right sizing. We use shelter medicine trends.

[1:03:53] We use the expertise of Bruce and his staff to incorporate those. We used the

[1:03:58] staff experience and expertise and input to this plan. We provided for future

[1:04:04] growth considerations and improvements. We cited it like Mark mentioned for

[1:04:09] those future opportunities on this property of where what could be

[1:04:13] considered where. We uh used the ASV guidelines and

[1:04:18] we programmed um this for the length of stay that Bruce Bruce mentioned for

[1:04:24] these animals. a consideration. It's so important. Um, like I mentioned, um,

[1:04:30] these animals, most of them that I took pictures of not too long ago are now

[1:04:35] adopted and we're so happy to hear that and be a part of their

[1:04:40] story. Thank you.

[1:04:44] Thank you very much. um experts in the room and um experts on on animal

[1:04:49] shelters and and Fairbanks engineering as we need it here done to um have a

[1:04:54] building and a plan and a proposal that uh can last another 50 years because um

[1:04:59] before we go on and open it up to questions, I want to make sure um I take

[1:05:02] an opportunity to thank um those that have gotten us here and that we are

[1:05:07] having a discussion about a 50-year-old building because of the work that our

[1:05:10] public works staff does um every day across the bureau, but especially on

[1:05:14] this building. Um, it's held together with Fairbanks ingenuity. Um, everything

[1:05:19] from duct tape to tie wire while keeping it safe uh, for our employees there and

[1:05:23] our staff at the animal control facility. I asked them to do a lot at

[1:05:27] our public works department. Um, everything from random questions to

[1:05:31] large projects and designs and um, running them through the the ringer. So,

[1:05:35] I I want to say thank you to everybody from the director to the project

[1:05:38] managers, the engineers, the architects, and everybody that I go in there when I

[1:05:42] need a hammer or a or a tape measure. Um, thank you to our public works

[1:05:46] department for keeping this facility up and running and and helping us get here

[1:05:49] today so that we can have a good dialogue and and allow transparency and

[1:05:53] sunlight on this project so people can get a good feel for where we're at, why

[1:05:57] this design is was what we've come to, and understand that we have experts. Um

[1:06:02] I want to in response to your question Mr. Guttenberg um during that

[1:06:06] presentation the answer to how many years left in this is that it is well

[1:06:10] beyond its useful life as described. So it's not that there's a set date but um

[1:06:15] many years ago it passed its useful life and so we are here now um discussing how

[1:06:20] we reset our our time clock. And um on the next note I want to thank our animal

[1:06:25] control staff. One thing that um Bruce from with Indigo had mentioned was the

[1:06:31] statistic that our average length of stay is six days for an animal in our

[1:06:36] shelter. This morning when we were talking with Dr. Scott Learned, he said

[1:06:40] I he asked what is your average day stay because in the um Matt Sue comments the

[1:06:46] comments on the Matt Sue shelter that he made uh there it was 20 days and I said

[1:06:51] I believe it's stay average safe for the animal there and I said I believe it's

[1:06:54] somewhere in the neighborhood of eight but maybe I'm wrong and he said that

[1:06:57] would be amazing if it was eight and we have six is the stat. So the work that

[1:07:01] they do every day to keep that shelter up and running, animals um with as

[1:07:06] little stress as possible with the facility that they have at their

[1:07:09] disposal is is beyond commendable and it's minor miracles as Bruce said every

[1:07:13] day there. So thank you to all the staff, the front of house, the back of

[1:07:16] house, the animal control staff that work there every day. Um during my tour,

[1:07:21] they asked me one thing and it was do you notice anything? And I said no. And

[1:07:25] they said well that's because you don't smell anything in this facility. And as

[1:07:29] um other uh audits or reviews of what they do come in, people say you almost

[1:07:34] never find an animal shelter that doesn't smell. And that just goes to

[1:07:37] show with the work that they do there. Keeping it clean, um scrubbing down all

[1:07:40] the non-standard surfaces that are 50 years old now is is amazing. So, thank

[1:07:45] you for the work you guys do there. Um thank you for public works department

[1:07:48] and thank you for the experts because we wouldn't be here uh with our community

[1:07:52] and and being able to take care of our animals um like we are and to the animal

[1:07:56] control commission. Um, also and the animal control staff. This job might be

[1:08:01] hard for us here. Dealing with kids on the school board might be harder, but

[1:08:04] dealing with people's animals might just be the hardest uh task that anybody has

[1:08:08] in this community. So, thank you for everything you do. And, um, with that,

[1:08:11] open it up to the assembly and the animal control commission. Thank you.

[1:08:15] Thank you, Mayor Hopkins, and thank you to the project team for a um, a

[1:08:21] veryformational uh, presentation. At this time, questions are in order from

[1:08:26] any of the commissioners. Uh, Commissioner Rosenberg. Yes. I have a

[1:08:31] few questions and concerns. Um, looking at the diagram, we have the term

[1:08:37] exotics, and that could mean anything from a snake to a bird to a goat. We

[1:08:45] have had a large number of rabbits coming through and that's continuing.

[1:08:51] We've had goats Um, chickens. There are times when we

[1:08:58] have six, eight, 10 chickens and I beg my neighbor who has chickens to take a

[1:09:04] few. I want to make sure that how this is set up that there's accommodation for

[1:09:10] that. So, you know, when we think of exotic, we think of a snake or maybe

[1:09:18] um a hamster, something in a cage that could go in the lobby if it needed to.

[1:09:24] But these other things, especially when we get numbers of them, where are they

[1:09:29] going to go? The sally port I think is essential not only for

[1:09:35] security and you know when you're unloading a truck but some of the

[1:09:42] deceased animals and very vicious animals that the officers bring in

[1:09:47] should not be going through a publicly viewed space. So that's another concern.

[1:09:54] Secure parking. I work in that neighborhood. I'm a case manager with

[1:09:58] homeless people. I'm regularly out on weekends and nights in South Fairbanks

[1:10:06] and staff come in very early sometimes or have to come in um late at night or

[1:10:14] the officers and we need something very very secure for that. The double kennels

[1:10:20] are ideal because when you have a snowstorm and three staff call in sick

[1:10:27] or a co or whatever or a very anxious animal, you can put them on one side,

[1:10:34] clean it, throw a dog biscuit, have them go on the other side. You know, it may

[1:10:39] not be ideal, but it's reality. So, I'm hoping all of that. And lastly, and then

[1:10:45] I'll be quiet. I'm regularly at Chief Andrew

[1:10:49] Isaac with clients and the parking lot there is very very difficult unless you

[1:10:56] have a tiny little car. So driving a van or just a regular truck that many of us

[1:11:06] drive parking there is very very difficult. And I can tell you more than

[1:11:12] once I parked in handicapped because I wouldn't be able to get the client out

[1:11:17] with their walker if I parked in a regular

[1:11:21] spot because people will be bringing animals in coming out with animals back

[1:11:28] and forth. Please, and most of us drive larger vehicles, trucks or whatever.

[1:11:34] Please make sure that the parking accommodates that and is not standard

[1:11:39] mall parking. And those are my comments at the moment. And the shelter fund is

[1:11:44] available and I'm sure we'll do some big project whether it's a memorial garden

[1:11:50] outside or beefing up the surgical suite. We'll do something that's very

[1:11:55] visible and large. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner.

[1:12:01] Um, so, uh, are there any particular questions for Dr. Cole?

[1:12:08] Um, any questions for Dr. Cole? Miss Wilson? So, I guess I'm curious about

[1:12:14] the surgery area and what kind of surgery are we anticipating in here? Um,

[1:12:19] I heard that we were talking about very specific types now, but this is a pretty

[1:12:24] large surgical area. So, are we anticipating using that more?

[1:12:30] Is that to Dr. Cole? Yes. Um um Dr. Cole, can you jump into where

[1:12:36] uh is sitting there? Yeah. Thank you. Sorry for swapping around. Thank you.

[1:12:45] Um my understanding that would probably more of a question for Dr.

[1:12:49] Pinto, but my understanding is it's supposed to be just primarily spay and

[1:12:52] neuters. I think that's a great idea. Miss Dr. Pinto, are you able to answer

[1:12:56] that? Can you jump into the mic so we can hear it? Thank you. Sorry about all

[1:12:59] the table shifting. Appreciate that. We're not used to such a full house.

[1:13:04] Well, we are, but mostly they say out

[1:13:13] here. Push the button. Okay. Now, can everyone hear

[1:13:17] me? The surgical suite that is uh going to be in the new animal shelter is

[1:13:23] intended for spays and neuters. The hope is that we can also take care of some of

[1:13:28] the smaller problems uh that our burrowowned animals have in house rather

[1:13:34] than having to send them out. Um there is enough space theoretically that if we

[1:13:40] have funding for equipment we could start cleaning teeth, cut down on stay,

[1:13:45] but it's going to be almost entirely spay and neuters perhaps some small mass

[1:13:49] removals and it's going to be for burrow owned animals.

[1:13:54] And a followup, Miss Wilson. So, how large is this area compared to what

[1:13:59] there is currently? And if it's a lot larger, I guess I'm trying to figure out

[1:14:05] why that would be. The surgical room itself is very

[1:14:10] close in size to the room that we're using as an entire veterinary suite

[1:14:14] right now. Uh the big difference here and the big

[1:14:19] reason is that we are able to with enough space have sanitary measures in

[1:14:25] effect, safety measures in effect and be able to keep the stress of our animals

[1:14:30] down by separating dogs and cats. So at this point my dogs are all recovering in

[1:14:36] the same room where I'm doing surgery. And there is a real risk every single

[1:14:41] day of having either a dog fight because there's no way to separate them or

[1:14:46] having a dog drown because the drain backs up onto the floor when they're

[1:14:52] waking up or um having an like a cat severely

[1:14:57] injured because we can't keep them away from the dogs. Not only that, but just

[1:15:02] the basic premise of when I need to do a surgery, we have to anesthetize the

[1:15:07] animal, we have to shave the hair, and we have to do a surgical preparation.

[1:15:12] That should be done in a separate room so that surgery can truly stay clean and

[1:15:17] sterile. And I can't do that now. And then lastly, could you just address, we

[1:15:21] heard that the floors are heated and they might get too hot for animals after

[1:15:25] surgery. I mean, I don't know enough about this

[1:15:29] to so after surgery, our biggest concern is actually hypothermia. Uh the animals

[1:15:34] getting too cold and there are a whole host of guidelines with making sure they

[1:15:38] have blankets or towels underneath. Uh the new plan includes having a heated

[1:15:43] floor area for those animals. It's a very light heat. It it adds a small

[1:15:48] amount of warmth, but not in a dangerous zone. We also do monitor temperatures

[1:15:52] pretty closely, like body temperatures. Thank

[1:15:56] you. If there are no other questions for Dr. Cole specifically, Dr. Cole

[1:16:01] specifically. Yes, yours is. Yeah, Mr. Gunberg. Okay, please. Yours is Thank

[1:16:05] you. And and remember, Dr. Cole's a a volunteer. She doesn't work for the Oh,

[1:16:12] either doctor. It didn't matter. Um, so my my question deals with the abnormal

[1:16:17] situation and how that's handled. I mean, we heard it's um spade and

[1:16:22] neuters. Um but when something else happens

[1:16:27] um what is the process and how is this new facility designed to facilitate

[1:16:33] getting something happened to another clinic or um or handling it in house?

[1:16:39] How how is that um functioning functionality in this process?

[1:16:46] Um yeah I think that probably more oriented towards you guys. Yeah. So, one

[1:16:52] more time, I'm just going to ask for questions for Dr. Cole, who is not the

[1:16:55] doctor at I don't I don't do I don't practice at the shelter. I have been

[1:17:01] through the shelter. We do work on shelter animals at my facility, but we I

[1:17:06] don't practice at the current shelter. She's a professional expert here today.

[1:17:10] Okay. Do you have a question, Miss Haney, for Dr. Cole? Okay. Hi. Who's the

[1:17:17] firm that you used for your facility? um similar to how um these folks have

[1:17:24] done it. I had a partnership where I used a architectural firm help with my

[1:17:29] floor plan that was a veterary specific architect and then I did use a a local

[1:17:34] architect for the main design and build. Do you remember who you used? Um Cedar.

[1:17:40] Thank you. Uh Mr. Crass and this is a bit more of a from an economic

[1:17:46] perspective for as a business owner. Um, do you we've gotten some comments that

[1:17:52] there there may be some impact on private businesses by the burough

[1:17:56] building the shelter. Would you anticipate uh the enlarged animal

[1:18:00] shelter having an impact on your veterinary practice? No. Other than

[1:18:04] potentially having more pet owners in the community that we can serve. Thank

[1:18:08] you. Or Dr. Cole. Yeah. Okay. Mr. Are you uh

[1:18:14] are you one of the uh veterinarians that help provide emergency services after

[1:18:19] our care? Yes, I am. Thank you. I'd like to speak to you off the record sometime.

[1:18:25] Okay. Good job. Thank you. Okay. Thanks so much for being here this

[1:18:29] this evening. It looks like we've exhausted all questions for for you and

[1:18:33] really appreciate you uh participating this evening. Thank you. So, in my queue

[1:18:38] I have uh Commissioner Swan, Assembly Member Guttenberg, and Assembly Member

[1:18:42] Ree Ramos. Commissioner Swan,

[1:18:49] thank you very much and thank everyone for uh coming up tonight and

[1:18:54] participating in this. I have a couple of questions regarding um the

[1:18:59] environment that's created in this new shelter. One of them regard is in

[1:19:04] regards to heating systems. And my my main thing is dogs. I'm not

[1:19:10] really good with cats. I have a c well we my wife and I have a couple of them,

[1:19:16] but uh dogs are are really my bigger concern. We could have at any given time

[1:19:23] in that dog room. Everything from big heavycoated Alaskan malamutes to little

[1:19:28] Mexican hairless in terms of breeds. And each of those breeds have their own

[1:19:35] demands for for a comfortable environment. One of my concerns is using

[1:19:42] this this inf flooror slab heating is that the floor itself may become much

[1:19:48] too warm for the dogs to be able to tolerate. So, I'm curious as to what

[1:19:54] design features will help ensure that the floor does not get any hotter than

[1:19:59] say about 84 degrees uh Fahrenheit.

[1:20:07] Miss Vanderell, do you want to answer that question? Yes, thanks. Um, I just

[1:20:11] wanted to explain a little bit more about the radiant heat. The radiant heat

[1:20:14] is not directly underneath the kennels. It is labyrinth through the walkways.

[1:20:19] So, while these kennel spaces have direct access to the exterior for the

[1:20:24] animals to exercise or possibly go to the dog pen for a visitation, tracking

[1:20:29] in moisture and snow and that um the walkways are heated throughout um the

[1:20:34] facility. There's 17 different zones of that heat. Um and it's a combination and

[1:20:39] they are monitored and um maximum shutout. So that will be dialed in and

[1:20:45] able to be monitored um with the system

[1:20:52] controls the kennels that you know this is open air room but there's a

[1:20:57] combination of um air heat you know typical ventilation heat and uh the

[1:21:02] radiant in the slab. Thank you for that answer. Assembly member Guttenberg.

[1:21:08] Thank you. I'm going to move away from the animals. Um if you look at um slide

[1:21:14] 23 um dealing with the parking lots and bas

[1:21:20] and specifically um snow removal, the ability of snow equipment, snow moving

[1:21:26] equipment to move in and out of there efficiently in a place to move snow. um

[1:21:33] we don't have to move it far, but um you know, a year like today, you know,

[1:21:38] sometimes the right angle corners or the curves or or the um a lot of those

[1:21:42] things. Um I urge you to look at the ability of to match the equipment that

[1:21:49] the bureau has to the parking lot size. Make sure that

[1:21:54] um it can be done expeditiously and fast. And and I have another question.

[1:22:01] So, is as if I may, is the all of this stuff that's going on with the with the

[1:22:07] um animal control, the staff, has anybody done um a walkthrough exercise,

[1:22:14] right? Like taped down the the new layout of the floors and the kennels and

[1:22:19] walking through and just seeing what it would actually be like to facilitate the

[1:22:24] the entrance and exit of of and movement of of uh animals through the process. I

[1:22:30] mean, it's nice to see it on a plan and say they walk right up here and then

[1:22:34] they go over here, but um an exercise with staff dealing with the dogs and how

[1:22:40] they move them. Has that something like that been done?

[1:22:47] Take Mark's thunder on the snow. Um you could see that um in the parking lots

[1:22:53] there's um quite a bit of this paved area that has maybe nothing at the end

[1:22:57] of an aisle or parking stalls without curb stops and that. So the idea there's

[1:23:02] a whole snow management and it's all been uh reviewed by public works to push

[1:23:08] and then the drainage swailes. So snow storage is near and dear to us. It also

[1:23:14] this design also accommodates the fire access lanes that we are required. So

[1:23:18] some of those even those pave lanes back towards the dog yards you'll see they

[1:23:23] terminate at a sort of a deadend stop that's to allow snow to be pushed and

[1:23:28] cleared and collected at those locations without disrupting you know the walkways

[1:23:33] and the access to different places. So um snow uh storage and collection and

[1:23:39] drainage was definitely Thank you. Thanks. And I'll address your other

[1:23:44] question sir. I think um you have a good point is there's nothing like show me

[1:23:49] and I'll believe it. We have new tools these days that sort of transcends the

[1:23:55] that method and the entire building has been modeled into a building information

[1:24:01] model. It's parametric model where every bit and piece has its point in space.

[1:24:06] And what that enables aside from just getting a better construction result, it

[1:24:11] enables preparation of exacting renderings, some of which you've seen

[1:24:15] today, that can give somebody the exact idea of what it's going to be in a given

[1:24:19] space. So, for example, walking down the hallway, a view can be made that shows,

[1:24:24] you know, anybody how that space will be used. And then dimensions are always a

[1:24:30] little bit of a a wild card, but it's pretty effective like on hallways is to

[1:24:35] tape out dimensions of how wide it's going to be. And there was a lot of

[1:24:39] discussion about hallway width in particular just because of that point.

[1:24:43] You have people with maybe an animal on leash crossing uh each other. The main

[1:24:48] hallway, by the way, is a little wider to allow that. The other hallway didn't

[1:24:52] need that as much. And you know, the the building overall is constrained by

[1:24:58] ultimately by cost. There's a lot of things I would just say that we could do

[1:25:02] or might do for you, but these are exactly the things that we think meet

[1:25:07] your your exact demand. We can always add we could make the as with the

[1:25:13] example of the hallways. Sure, we could make them wider, but every square foot

[1:25:17] we add to the building, as you're aware, adds to the cost. So, it's it's sort of

[1:25:21] a sweet spot that you're looking for here. And I think staff um is pretty

[1:25:26] keenly aware of what what they'll be getting with the built result partly

[1:25:31] because of these parametric models. Thank

[1:25:34] you, Assembly Member Ree Charles. I have a question and a statement and

[1:25:40] unfortunately my question is for Dr. Pinto.

[1:25:44] Sorry.

[1:25:48] Um, when you were speaking before, I just wanted to clarify. Have there been

[1:25:54] dogs that have drowned while they're in recovery?

[1:25:58] No, there have not. But it has been a genuine worry when I have two inches of

[1:26:02] water on the floor. Okay. Thank you. Um, and then my statement, if I may. Um, we

[1:26:08] have a new administration. There's a lot more people involved with this project

[1:26:11] right now, so that are here. So, I just want to make sure everyone's aware. Kind

[1:26:14] of piggybacking on what Commissioner Rosenberg said, um I work in the state

[1:26:20] building just just down the road from where this is going to be. Um and the

[1:26:25] first three times that I drove the state vehicle when I moved to that position.

[1:26:30] Um the first time there was no catalytic converter. Six months later we got it

[1:26:34] back and I went to drive it again and there was no catalytic converter. Went

[1:26:38] back, got a catalytic converter. When I went to drive it the third time, there

[1:26:42] was no gas because someone had drilled out the gas tank and siphoned all the

[1:26:46] gas. So, just security is important in that area.

[1:26:52] Thank you, Assembly Member Roderman.

[1:26:56] Thank you. Um, piggyback a little bit on the snow

[1:27:01] removal. Just a suggestion. So, in the um the visitor parking area, we have

[1:27:06] that uh divider, if you will.

[1:27:12] understand a lot of years plowing snow. When I plow snow, I don't want to

[1:27:18] be plowing snow. I want to be done plowing snow. And I'm going to tell you,

[1:27:22] the person that has to plow that parking lot is going to be cursing you guys up

[1:27:25] one side and down the other to have go around that. Remove it just like he did

[1:27:28] in the staff parking area. They can push right through, push it out into the

[1:27:32] grass. That's just a suggestion. Um, so let's get to the big ticket item, cost.

[1:27:40] um the Matsu animal shelter and I don't know the size, don't know the square

[1:27:45] footage. I just know that the cost was significantly less. Um that that

[1:27:49] facility I think was built in 2021. We're the last I remember the

[1:27:55] first time when we were at 35% ran some quick numbers we were at almost $2,000 a

[1:27:59] square foot.

[1:28:02] Um I got I need some input on that real fast on that. um before I hand it off to

[1:28:08] the design team. Um the Matsu shelter was built in 1996, 1994 uh and then

[1:28:16] began to be refurbished based on these comments in uh 2001 2002. So it was

[1:28:21] built in the '90s in their current update um was just a rem um an expansion

[1:28:26] of that facility and a remodel of some of the problems that they ran into. That

[1:28:30] was in 2021, I think. Something like that. These are this from design learned

[1:28:34] that was emailed to the assembly was from 2021. So sometime between then and

[1:28:38] now. So yes um additionally before I pass it off to the design team to talk

[1:28:42] about it the cost estimates were run through a third party advis uh third

[1:28:46] party review but um I don't know the name of that consultant. It's a local

[1:28:50] entity um but they ran it through their own modeling and it came up with a very

[1:28:55] similar price as what we as what we're understanding today with a $33 million

[1:28:59] price tag. So um it's not just our number. It was also reviewed and

[1:29:02] confirmed by a third party analysis. So with that, I will pass it off to um Miss

[1:29:08] Van Hersel. We're going to give you the trifecta.

[1:29:11] I'll go next and then Bruce. Um we uh toured that lovely facility. We've

[1:29:16] toured several animal shelters in the state. Dana and myself and another co

[1:29:20] colleague with um your uh Jonathan Shambari here of public works had a

[1:29:24] really gracious tour from that user and a lot of follow-up questions along the

[1:29:28] way. uh what we understood and what we saw. We learned a lot about the night

[1:29:32] drop off there. So, they're a good resource for how how that might work. Um

[1:29:37] was it's basically a residential framed house almost. I mean, originally the

[1:29:42] original they've added on quite a bit much like your existing animal shelter.

[1:29:46] It's been added on. So um that original construction and even the addition is

[1:29:51] quite a bit different than what we're um suggesting here which is more of a

[1:29:55] commercialrade uh burrow standard for a public facility

[1:29:59] like this 50-year lifespan. It's steel. It's you know concrete. It is it's of a

[1:30:05] different um uh type of building structure.

[1:30:11] I'll just add to that that as you're probably aware animal shelters are a

[1:30:16] special building type. There's a lot going on in them. There's expensive

[1:30:19] finishes that need to be put in for hygienic purposes. There's heavy duty

[1:30:24] construction for the kennel areas, which are masonry. And um there's a lot of

[1:30:30] moving parts to them. There's medical treatment areas. I mean, there's all

[1:30:34] sorts of things. So, they're going to cost more than your average office

[1:30:38] building. That said, uh what we do on shelter design, there always is a

[1:30:44] bottoms up cost estimate. that's what's been prepared and has been reviewed at

[1:30:48] each step and peer reviewed. But we also look at the um cost of shelters from the

[1:30:53] tops down. So to do that, we maintain a list of shelter costs over time and we

[1:31:00] update that to reflect current dollars. In other words, if it was a shelter

[1:31:04] built five years ago, it's going to cost more in today's dollars. We find average

[1:31:10] cost out of that process to to current and we've compared that to the cost for

[1:31:15] the Fairbank New Fairbanks animal shelter and it's right on par with where

[1:31:21] the expected cost would be in Alaska for an animal shelter to be built. So, you

[1:31:29] know, if there's data that you would like to provide regarding Matsu, we

[1:31:33] could take a look at it and then provide a direct comparison with the cost of

[1:31:37] this shelter. But that's why we do the tops down thing because it really just

[1:31:41] at the end of the day it says is this cost reasonable for the shelter and

[1:31:45] right now it's at the average of shelter cost. Many building types also you'll

[1:31:50] see that there's much more expensive shelters built and then there's also

[1:31:56] some on the lower end. So that's why we do a grouping and we look at average

[1:31:59] cost and it provides a test of reasonable at least one test of

[1:32:04] reasonable. Okay. Thank you. And just one more quick

[1:32:07] question. Could we go to slide um Oh boy. 26 I think it

[1:32:12] was. Yeah.

[1:32:17] 26. So in the middle here I see a janitor closet. I

[1:32:24] see nothing else for storage. Am I missing something? Did I

[1:32:30] miss a storage room or something? That's a pretty small closet for an

[1:32:35] 17,000 foot facility. There is storage. I don't know if I have a mouse. No, I

[1:32:40] don't have a mouse. There is storage. First of all, there's storage um built

[1:32:43] in every one of the dog kennel rooms. You can see there's a a series of

[1:32:48] casework along a wall that's locked um for use of storage immediate needs to

[1:32:54] those kennel rooms. So, each one of those rooms has dedicated storage.

[1:32:58] There's a dedicated storage room towards the medical suite. So further down that

[1:33:03] core um with double doors on either side, single doors, but on e opposite

[1:33:08] sides there's a hall storage room. Do you see that one labeled a little more

[1:33:13] to the left of that janitor? Okay. And then there's storage within the food

[1:33:18] service and laundry. Um, and then also there's storage within, you know, I

[1:33:24] would say built-in casework sort of sprinkled throughout. Um, whether it

[1:33:30] accessed from a hall or within the rooms. It's a little hard to identify

[1:33:37] those lines um versus what a kennel might be, but we're currently doing the

[1:33:43] complete fixture furnishing and equipment package and Dana none in our

[1:33:47] office is orchestrating that. So um with the stakeholders and the leadership, we

[1:33:52] have gone through every piece of equipment and every piece of like

[1:33:56] furniture that would be included in here to make sure storage is accounted for um

[1:34:03] within the facility. Okay. Thank you. Um Mr. Swan, I do see your hand, but I'm

[1:34:09] going to let some others who have not spoken um have a question. And then for

[1:34:15] the group, I just want to announce that we'll take a 10-minute break at 7:30 and

[1:34:21] we'll reconvene back at 7:40. Okay. So, um I'm going to go to Commissioner Rudy.

[1:34:28] Hi there. Uh I had a couple of questions. One, since we talked about

[1:34:33] snow a little bit, looking at the drawings, are all of the roof surfaces

[1:34:37] flat? And is there any concern with snow load as a lifelong Alaskan that's had

[1:34:44] flat roof snow problems on many properties? Just wondering if there's

[1:34:49] any um angle to any of the roofs or if they are flat like they look like.

[1:34:54] Um we would consider them low slope roofs. So they're all slope to internal

[1:34:58] drains. It's something else that the burough standard requires. You'll notice

[1:35:01] like on all the recent school projects and that it prevents snow and unwanted

[1:35:06] um sliding of snow that that could cause a hazard much like your

[1:35:12] existing kennel. Now, let me get to the photo that has ice damning directly onto

[1:35:18] a walkway. That is a a hazard that the burrow um does not allow. So, we are low

[1:35:24] slope internally drained. it um has uh equipped for you know the snow loads

[1:35:31] code required and will not be required to be shoveled.

[1:35:35] Thank you. And just sort of a follow-up to that one, the on the slide that

[1:35:39] showed the virtual image of the new entrance, I don't know what number it

[1:35:44] is, I'm sorry. The uh the Yes, thank you. the covered

[1:35:49] walkway at the entrance there. Um, will there be a slope there or gutters around

[1:35:54] the edge cuz you can just see the sea of ice that that entryway would be just

[1:35:59] like everywhere else in town is right now. Yes. Yep. It has a curb and it's

[1:36:03] drained uh to a landscape um area. Um so hard to see in this view, but yes, it is

[1:36:09] a controlled drainage off of there and it will not slope onto the concrete or

[1:36:13] the sidewalk. Excellent. Thank you, Commissioner Sherman.

[1:36:22] Um, so I have some questions about looking I was looking at slide 25, but

[1:36:27] I'm also thinking about what the uh shelter vet American shelter

[1:36:33] vet guidelines say that shelter admission areas should be separated from

[1:36:38] adoptions and other client-f facing areas. And I this is a little bit of a

[1:36:44] new world for me looking at blueprints, but I have some questions about some

[1:36:49] possible um movement from an for animals uh when

[1:36:55] they arrive in the shelter. So maybe I mean I know you don't it doesn't seem

[1:36:58] like you have a laser pointer, but maybe somebody could walk it through like it's

[1:37:02] got a couple of pieces or three or four or maybe more pieces. So, if someone's

[1:37:07] bringing an adult dog um that's spayed, already spayed,

[1:37:12] doesn't need it, vaccines are up to date, and it's being surrendered by the

[1:37:15] owner, so the owner knows they have to give it up. Is are they coming in

[1:37:19] through that shelter, that public access spot, and then walking? Can somebody

[1:37:23] walk me through how that is? Do you want me to give them all to you or do you

[1:37:26] want to do them one at a time?

[1:37:39] We do need to have the microphone.

[1:37:45] Thank you for being patient with me.

[1:37:58] Okay, good question. And to answer that question, the public entrance would be

[1:38:04] the primary location for people bringing in animals like that. So if it's a

[1:38:08] surrender, um there are other alternatives to come to the rear of the

[1:38:13] facility, but primarily they would come in the entrance. They would be received.

[1:38:17] It probably would be an appointment session. And then the animal would come

[1:38:22] down to this point and it's really headed towards the dog intake room that

[1:38:27] you'll see is on the secure side. So they'd be escorted back or greeted by a

[1:38:33] staff member here to surrender the dog. That staff member would have the option

[1:38:39] to bring the person into the intake room.

[1:38:43] And it does look like they're going to have to go with this dog that's

[1:38:46] potentially I mean it's going to be euthanized so it's not such a big deal I

[1:38:49] suppose. I don't mean to say that lightly but it's going to be walking by

[1:38:53] the isolation kennels. So it looks like even healthy dogs that are going into

[1:38:59] quarantine are going to everybody's walking right by there. Well yeah in the

[1:39:04] main hallway they would come here and be escorted back or just brought back to

[1:39:08] the intake area. Yeah. This hallway is intended to

[1:39:12] serve all the rooms on this pathway, whether they be a flex adoption or

[1:39:18] isolation, quarantine, etc. So, if someone, and I I I hope it

[1:39:24] doesn't seem like I'm torturing you, but I've been doing a deep dive on all the

[1:39:28] things people have given me to think about. So, an adult dog that is a stray,

[1:39:33] unknown history, someone is bringing it in, found him running on the road. He

[1:39:39] they don't know much about him. It's not drop off cages because it's open hours.

[1:39:44] Same thing. Um well, so now you're getting into the operation of the

[1:39:49] facility. So a person, a citizen is bringing this dog in. So there's a lot

[1:39:54] of variability in how shelter staff will operate this new facility. Well, one

[1:40:00] thing to be clear is it's going to be a different arrangement of course than the

[1:40:04] existing facility. So shelter staff could decide to bring that dog through

[1:40:09] the front or I would say Sandy might have some comment in that. More likely

[1:40:14] you might make arrangements to admit them through the secure gate at the rear

[1:40:17] of the facility and have staff meet them back here and bring that dog directly

[1:40:23] into quarantine. So there's part of the beauty, if you will, of having this flow

[1:40:28] set up is that you can have options as to where animals come in. And I think it

[1:40:34] would be a case by case uh as far as what the particulars of that animal are

[1:40:39] and the person bringing it in. A as a person who

[1:40:44] occasionally the universe throws strays in our way. I say I I truly appreciate

[1:40:50] the intake room that they have and Brit Leanne who does amazing work in the

[1:40:55] back. I don't have to go to the front. People don't need to see me, you know,

[1:40:59] all of that. That's just I thanks for explaining that. And then I'll just give

[1:41:04] you one more. So someone has an older large dog um with its owners coming in

[1:41:11] and they would they need they feel like it needs to be euthanized. It's been

[1:41:15] approved. They have an appointment and then they also want to take the body

[1:41:19] with them. Do can you give me a possible scenario for what?

[1:41:24] That's a good one. I'd have to sort of defer to staff how they would handle

[1:41:28] that. But for something like that, you would want to have, you know, those

[1:41:34] folks come back to the staff secure entrance to the facility. So what this

[1:41:39] means is that there will have to be a protocol when some public member is

[1:41:46] coming with a need like that where they're actually admitted from the rear

[1:41:50] of the facility. There's another optional place, maybe a third, where

[1:41:55] they could come in. This night drop pathway is available to the public and

[1:42:00] they could be met back here a little more discreetly and a little more easily

[1:42:04] without going through the secure parking area.

[1:42:08] So, you know, it's kind of like buildings where you have optional

[1:42:13] pathways we find are much more usable and comfortable for operational needs

[1:42:20] than if there's just one way. Here, I've just identified there's actually three

[1:42:24] different ways that could be resolved. So staff and shelter management can

[1:42:29] decide how to handle the situation and have these right now the shelter is you

[1:42:34] know poorly provides for that because there's like one entry point which where

[1:42:39] everything's happening. It's this and no I I'm not in denial that we don't need a

[1:42:42] new shelter. We do. What else can I help you with? I'm gonna

[1:42:48] take a breath and let someone else have a chance. Thank you so much sir. Thank

[1:42:52] you member. Thank you. Um, I just want to

[1:42:57] bring the discussion back down to I think we're at the 10,000 ft level. Um,

[1:43:02] and just ask some obvious questions that have been asked of me. Um, and a person

[1:43:07] that doesn't work in animal control. Can It seems to me like a big cost of this

[1:43:13] is making a surgery center, a hospital basically for animals. Could someone and

[1:43:19] I'm not sure who would be the appropriate person to answer this but

[1:43:22] what would happen if we did not have a surgery center would the number of

[1:43:27] euthanasia um increase drastically without

[1:43:34] one? The short answer is every animal that is adopted out through uh the

[1:43:40] shelter must be spayed or neutered. So, if we don't have a surgery center in

[1:43:45] house, that means that every animal has to wait for an appointment at a

[1:43:49] veterinary clinic in order to be spayed or neutered, which increases length of

[1:43:53] stay. Um, the last I checked, we were a couple of weeks out on spayneuters in

[1:43:59] general in clinics in the area. So, instead of an animal staying for 6 days,

[1:44:03] it might be staying for 15 days just to get spayed in order to be

[1:44:07] adoptable. That means that the kennels are all full. That means that there's no

[1:44:13] place to put strays. That means the animals are being euthanized. Thank

[1:44:18] you. And I just had one other question. Do we have um by virtue of our really

[1:44:24] unique community with um a lot of military, a lot of students, um people

[1:44:29] moving in and out of our community quite often. Do we have a greater need for um

[1:44:35] adoptions and animal shelters with people relinquishing their pets than

[1:44:39] other communities? Are we unique?

[1:44:46] I don't really know. Um, do you have insight there? Yeah, I I don't have data

[1:44:52] to support it, but I don't think so. And anyway, a lot of communities have issues

[1:44:58] around university towns and so forth where you have a sort of a transient

[1:45:02] population going on. So, no, I don't think you're anything too out of the

[1:45:07] ordinary here in Fairbanks. Thank you. By the way, I like Fairbanks. You guys

[1:45:11] are great.

[1:45:14] Good stuff. Okay, Miss Haney. Hi. Thank you very much. And I I

[1:45:20] appreciate I know maybe you think I've been some people may think I've been

[1:45:24] excessively critical of this, but I do appreciate the work. Um, and I know that

[1:45:29] you guys designed phenomenal stuff. So, I don't want this in any way

[1:45:35] to make you feel like your work is inferior. Contrary, your work is

[1:45:40] extremely good. Um, I'm concerned about though the cost of utilities on this

[1:45:48] facility. I'm not going to lie. I I look at it and I and I think about

[1:45:53] um the North Pole Library and I think about this and I have to ask I have to

[1:46:01] really think about what would be the utilities that we're going to face on

[1:46:05] this on an ongoing basis and if they fill out of this guide for free for us

[1:46:11] um we have to pay staff, we have to pay utilities. So those are the things that

[1:46:17] are really concerning me right now. Maybe If you could shed some light on

[1:46:21] that. Thanks.

[1:46:29] Shift the hot seat.

[1:46:33] Uh hello. My name is Marco Steovich. I'm the project engineer for the Fairbanks

[1:46:37] Northstar Burrow in the public works department. Um I would say for the new

[1:46:41] facility, it's kind of hard to put a direct number to the utility costs that

[1:46:46] we would uh be paying. I would have to say though um over the last two years

[1:46:52] that we've been uh designing this new project, it's been a reoccurring

[1:46:56] statement that the existing animal shelter facility um is the highest cost

[1:47:01] uh per utility per square foot that the bureau owns. So I would I would have to

[1:47:07] think that for a new facility with new modern standards u the utility cost per

[1:47:12] square would dramatically go down. But uh that's all I

[1:47:18] follow up. Indigo is like sort of noted for their um designs being resilient and

[1:47:26] um alternate energy friendly and all that good stuff. Is any of that stuff in

[1:47:32] included in this design?

[1:47:37] Uh yes. Sorry, I feel weird because I I the commission kind of blocks whatever

[1:47:43] was answered. I think within the context of Fairbanks and your extreme

[1:47:49] temperatures here there Fairbanks has in the in the heating world you look at

[1:47:56] something called heating degree days and Fairbanks has about 14,000 heating

[1:48:01] degree days and you know the the coldest spots in the lower 48 might be you know

[1:48:08] 10,000 for example. So, it's quite an extreme environment. You're going to pay

[1:48:13] something to heat buildings in this climate. What this building includes is

[1:48:17] a superinssulated envelope. So, the walls are thermally insulated. The roof

[1:48:23] is thermally insulated. Tracy can address any of those items. Um, one

[1:48:29] thing to consider would be potential future photovoltaics. It's easier said

[1:48:34] than done in this climate zone. uh where would you put them and how can you get

[1:48:38] them on the site? Um but those things can be added in the future. And then the

[1:48:43] last thing I'll say is because one of the the we've kept the floor plan very

[1:48:49] compact. You'll notice it's a rectangle. I call that the shoe box design. It's a

[1:48:54] not an architectural technical term. It just looks like a shoe box. But what

[1:48:59] that does is it keeps the overall surface area of the envelope to the

[1:49:05] volume contained very favorable so that you don't have a lot of exposure for

[1:49:10] thermal conductance to the outside. It's pretty simple really. And then the only

[1:49:15] other thing you look at is how much glazing is on the building. And I think

[1:49:19] this building is well within parameter because any hole you put in a building

[1:49:23] is kind of a leak um if you will. Of course, if you didn't have any windows

[1:49:28] in your building, you might not be happy about

[1:49:31] that. No, so I think it hits a a sweet spot. I'll use that term, I guess, for

[1:49:38] the third time tonight on energy and um utility costs overall. The last thing is

[1:49:44] just fuel source. So, Fairbanks, as I understand, is dominated by um fuel oil

[1:49:51] still and natural gas. There is a trend in parts of the rest of the country

[1:49:57] particularly where there's not those 14,000 heating degree days to convert to

[1:50:02] electric heating source and you know total electric buildings but you know

[1:50:07] what that's I think that's a good idea for many areas of the country but it's a

[1:50:12] tough one here because of the heating demand and also probably infrastructural

[1:50:16] issues. So, sorry that's such a long answer, but I just want you to know that

[1:50:21] we've thought about that in the design team side and we've done the logical

[1:50:25] things here without increasing the cost unduly for the building. Well, thank

[1:50:29] you. I just know that that's what your firm is going for. Thank you for and so

[1:50:33] I was kind of looking for a little bit of that. Just kind of curious any of

[1:50:37] that was in there. So, and on the resiliency side, the last point would be

[1:50:42] it this building will be served by an emergency generator. So that will be an

[1:50:47] important part of it in the um burough's portfolio of buildings that you have

[1:50:53] that power. So when you do lose power, and I'm sure that will happen many times

[1:50:58] in the life of this building, you will have emergency power to run it and

[1:51:02] possibly other burrow functions in buildings that aren't protected that way

[1:51:07] could come to this site and camp out in that um public meeting room. Maybe it's

[1:51:13] not public meetings. It might be a department from a leased building or

[1:51:17] whatever that needs a home temporarily.

[1:51:21] Thank you so much. We're going to move on to Commissioner Swan. Then on my list

[1:51:26] I have Assembly Member Wilson, Assembly Member Crass, and Commissioner Rudy.

[1:51:31] Commissioner Swan,

[1:51:37] thank you. Um the first question that I have

[1:51:42] involves the isolation room and the isolation kennels. Um looking at a the

[1:51:48] previous um floor plan that was presented to us, it looked like the room

[1:51:54] had a lot well a bunch of kennels that all opened up to a common space. And I

[1:52:02] am uh curious as to what design features minimize the risk of spreading comorbid

[1:52:11] diseases within an already ill population. For example, we could have a

[1:52:17] litter of puppies with parvo virus in one kennel and in another kennel very

[1:52:23] close to it have a dog with bordatella or a dog with distemper or other

[1:52:29] diseases. So, so what design features prevent that that crosscontamination of

[1:52:35] diseases?

[1:52:42] So sir, are you talking about crosscontamination within the isolation

[1:52:47] ward that has five kennels in it or you talking about between boards? Oh, okay.

[1:52:54] Yes, within that that isolation room, which I presume is where where it's

[1:52:59] intended to to house dogs that need to be isolated due to disease. Right. So,

[1:53:06] what the building can do is provide separate environmental control for that

[1:53:11] space and it does. As far as separation for different illness, that becomes an

[1:53:17] operational um part of the program. And if you can't put the animals together,

[1:53:23] you don't. And so it's kind of as simple as that. And it depends on case by case.

[1:53:28] And again, it gets into the operation of the shelter, which I have limited

[1:53:33] capacity to address

[1:53:38] or to put it. Okay. It's it's normal practice to have an isolation ward and

[1:53:44] this this facility will have one. It just comes down to how it's operated.

[1:53:49] There may be extreme conditions I don't know where you need to export an animal

[1:53:53] who's can't be housed in that space. Okay. Just so so that we know that

[1:54:00] comorbidities is is something that we need to be aware of and be careful of.

[1:54:06] Um I have a question regarding outside areas. Um the outside areas, for

[1:54:14] example, the barn for larger livestock or the slide dog areas, are those also

[1:54:20] part of your design responsibilities or are they uh are they going to be

[1:54:25] designed by someone else or or something else done to put those together? They

[1:54:33] are included in this design.

[1:54:38] Okay.

[1:54:43] Um, so what what uh I'm interested primarily in the sled dog area, but I

[1:54:49] probably pertains to the barn. Um, now we're dealing with animals that are

[1:54:55] acclimated to our harsh environment. What considerations in housing for these

[1:55:02] individual animals have gone into the design such as insulated dog houses or

[1:55:08] insulation for the barn or you know things of that

[1:55:22] nature. I think they want me to chime in on this. Um, we would use insulated

[1:55:27] doghouses like we do now for our sled dogs. Um, the setup would be very

[1:55:32] similar to what we have now. They'd be on tethers and with insulated doghouses

[1:55:37] with straw. Okay. And and what about the barn?

[1:55:44] It's similar also similar to what you have existing where it's um more open

[1:55:49] and uned. Oh, sorry. Um, I'm gonna interject. The barn is much better than

[1:55:56] what we have now. Much much better. Um, what we have

[1:56:01] now isn't it isn't even like a solid walls. It's three-sided with gaps in it.

[1:56:07] Um, and the barn that's in this design offers offers a lot more protection and

[1:56:12] very safe fencing for various species. So, it would keep in goats and horses

[1:56:16] and it wouldn't have the chain link where their hooves would get caught. It

[1:56:21] would be a safer fencing. Thank you, Assembly Member Wilson.

[1:56:28] Thank you. Just so you know, Miss Gardner had her hand up as well, but

[1:56:32] Okay. I know there's a lot of people a lot of It's kind of hard to catch

[1:56:35] everybody. So, I just kind of want to go back

[1:56:37] on how it came up to be 17,737 square feet, which is almost

[1:56:43] three times as big as right now with population going down. And it sounds

[1:56:48] like most of the animals need some more room, but I'm just trying to figure out

[1:56:52] what was used to come up with it to be this much larger than the current

[1:56:58] one. Um, a few of the um, uh, components are new. They're added. That was that

[1:57:06] accoes and their needs um, from that existing air quality building. So,

[1:57:12] that's being added into this. Um they have lockers, um gear, shower

[1:57:18] opportunities for when they encounter an animal that um they need to um clean up

[1:57:25] after, I guess. Um we also have the night drop um room. So there's new um

[1:57:31] dedicated euthanasia room, dedicated cat intake room, dedicated dog intake rooms.

[1:57:39] Um and then yeah and the acco suite. Um so there are new program elements added

[1:57:48] to this. Then there's the addition of the capacity of the kennels themsel and

[1:57:55] the size of the kennels. Um there's dedicated separate exotic room, small

[1:58:00] animal rooms, cat isolation rooms like Dr. Pinto explained. I believe as of

[1:58:05] today when we were there they had cat isolation inside the

[1:58:09] surgery room um that is used a curtain is used to separate them. So we have a

[1:58:16] dedicated room for that with dedicated um ventilation. So there's additional

[1:58:23] program um elements that are not currently allocated in your current

[1:58:29] shelter. And this might be an administrative question. So with that

[1:58:33] increased amount of space and I don't know how whether it gets cleaned just

[1:58:38] now by those who work for animal control but are we anticipating you know more

[1:58:43] janitorial um other you know operating costs that

[1:58:47] go in with a larger facility and I know the legislature used to be really bad

[1:58:53] when they always built new was never taking into consideration the additional

[1:58:57] cost. So, was any of that done? And if not, could it be done?

[1:59:03] Um, I'll uh make sure pass that to Kimberly Ember, but I have to imagine

[1:59:06] cleaning is going to be a lot easier. But can you talk on um the staffing

[1:59:10] needs and things like that? Yeah. So, um a lot of our workshop when we were

[1:59:14] working with Indigo and the veterinarians that were associated with

[1:59:17] us earlier is that um the cleaning protocol would be a lot different. So

[1:59:22] right now we break everything down and we spray it all down and sanitize and

[1:59:27] set it back up. So it would be spot cleaning on the daily for animals and

[1:59:32] then when they rotate out, that's when you would do the full sanitation. So it

[1:59:36] cuts down on the type of cleaning um that you're doing. And it it's a lot

[1:59:41] less stressful for animals to keep items that um are scented like that they're

[1:59:46] used to. So, um, while we like to wash everything, um, it would be more saving

[1:59:50] the clean blankets that are kind of clean, um, not soiled and, uh, reusing

[1:59:56] dishes, um, and not washing them all the time every day. So, it would cut down a

[2:00:01] lot in that way. And then we would be able to clean the floors in the space

[2:00:07] with that time, I would think. So basically with the current staff you

[2:00:11] have now you're not anticipating have to hire others for that type of activity.

[2:00:19] Correct. But it would give us room to grow for more services and more staff if

[2:00:24] there was a need. Thank you. Miss

[2:00:29] Gardner, if you could turn your microphone on. Better turn that on. I

[2:00:34] have a couple of questions um about the upper side on the plans

[2:00:41] here and the and the cat area. Uh I'm a little

[2:00:46] confused about how uh with the cat areas being in so close proximity, the intake

[2:00:53] and the isolation being like right next to the

[2:00:58] um the holding facilities in the cat viewing room. So maybe you could uh ex

[2:01:04] you know go over up there on the plan again uh the path works there. I'm also

[2:01:11] looking at this volunteer area which would um most certainly a hallway that

[2:01:17] runs from one side to the other in the public side of the building. It seems

[2:01:23] like I don't know how many volunteers you're anticipating. We've heard quite a

[2:01:28] few more than you have now. So I don't know how convenient it would be to cut

[2:01:34] through that area. And another thing I have a question about is the

[2:01:39] ventilation. So the animal ventilation is usually separated from the human

[2:01:44] space ventilation. And it seems like for that

[2:01:49] it would be efficient to group all of the human use them together. and they

[2:01:55] seem to be kind of spread out along the southwest side. So that okay, thank you

[2:02:04] for that question. I think this shows the area in question. So the public is

[2:02:09] coming this way and uh the first of the cat rooms is cat adoption and hold right

[2:02:16] here. This is same same thing but has more of a flex function in case you have

[2:02:21] more kitties that need some special treatment. cat's isolation here which is

[2:02:27] in a a closed door room like the rest and then we get to the staff area. So

[2:02:34] the cat ISO area typically we like to put that near the medical treatment

[2:02:40] area. In this case it was felt that this is pretty darn close to medical

[2:02:45] treatment and there would be more effective to have all the cats rooms in

[2:02:50] one region of the shelter. So that's why these are located here. And again,

[2:02:55] they're separated from the dogs and they're um introduce the beginning of

[2:03:00] the human spaces right there. Does that answer your question? Kind of in in the

[2:03:07] in the dogs, the dog intake room is not in the public area for the cats. The cat

[2:03:15] intake room is in the public area. So, is it intended that if someone is

[2:03:19] surrendering a cat, they would bring it back to the intake room?

[2:03:25] Correct. This would be the area where cats are evaluated on intake. So, they

[2:03:30] cross a path between cats coming from holding room to the visitation.

[2:03:40] um they would come back this way to that room and they would be escorted by a

[2:03:46] staff member. Typically, as far as the dogs go, this

[2:03:50] is a much more, you know, dog central facility and you have a lot of dogs that

[2:03:55] you really want to be coming in from the staff secure side, we think, and it's

[2:04:01] appropriate to have it here um adjacent in particular the quarantine where

[2:04:05] you're bringing in dogs that may have an unknown provenence or illnesses that

[2:04:11] need to be checked out. You know, it seems more approp to

[2:04:16] have this space on the secure side as opposed directly accessible to the

[2:04:22] public. What you want to do is have these adoption open adoption rooms

[2:04:26] available to the public uh along this public part of the corridor.

[2:04:33] That that brings to another question. Sorry.

[2:04:38] I volunteer for a cat rescue here in Fairbanks and we we handle almost as

[2:04:45] many cats as the animal shelter does. We divert those cats from coming to the

[2:04:50] animal shelter mostly. Nonprofits don't last forever.

[2:04:56] So, what's your flexibility there increasing the capacity cats?

[2:05:02] Uh, that's a good question. Um, you know, as we've talked about, there's

[2:05:06] only so much territory in this floor plan within cost constraints for the

[2:05:12] project. So, we've chosen to make certain that the dogs that you we know

[2:05:17] are coming are going to be accommodated in the facility and that the cats, this

[2:05:23] goes back to, you know, basically 2022 was a peak year for calculation and so

[2:05:29] those cats can be accommodated. Here we have um let's see one, two, three. We

[2:05:34] have eight in this room, eight in this room, um four or sorry, two in this

[2:05:40] room. That's the current capacity. As far as future expansion goes, um you

[2:05:47] know, the the shelter could expand. We've talked about the additive

[2:05:52] alternates for more kennels. We've talked about additive alternates for a

[2:05:57] sallyport. By the way, I forget who said that the sallyport is a really needed

[2:06:02] element, but right on there because that's an important um part to be able

[2:06:07] to bring vehicles in, discharge animals, not having them running out over old

[2:06:13] rich highway for example. So that I think if those can be afforded um but

[2:06:19] you can see that a critical space like that is an additive alternate at this

[2:06:24] point. So it tells you something about you know that we're probably pushing the

[2:06:29] budgetary limits of the project the building. The other attribute of the

[2:06:34] shoe box though is that you can expand it in a linear manner which is one of

[2:06:41] the great benefits. So you could expand out the uh secure staff side of the

[2:06:47] building and we haven't really drawn it anywhere but you could expand it out to

[2:06:51] a limited extent on this end of the building. So some of those plans could

[2:06:55] include future provision for more cat housing.

[2:07:01] So I had the last question was about ventilation for the given spaces versus

[2:07:08] the spaces on that side of the building. Right. So um there's a completely

[2:07:15] separate ventilation system for dogs and a completely separate system for cats.

[2:07:22] And as far as cat to human, I would have to check the plans, but these airbased

[2:07:27] systems there, I think Tracy mentioned earlier there's 17 hydronic zones in the

[2:07:34] building, which means those are elements of control for those parts of the

[2:07:38] system. And your airbase system has 10 what are called VAV boxes. So, it's very

[2:07:47] likely, and in fact, I can be certain of it, that there's a separate VAV box for

[2:07:52] staff and a separate VAV for the cat kennel area. Well, that I guess my

[2:07:59] question was, wouldn't it be more efficient to have all the human occupied

[2:08:05] areas adjacent to each other instead of broken up by the cat and the medical?

[2:08:15] Um I guess I'm not sure what your question is. The the staff area is

[2:08:20] located right here. You have the supervisor office, the break room and

[2:08:26] other human functions like acco um and staff break area. Well, we

[2:08:33] mentioned that. What what other human parts were you thinking? So So starting

[2:08:38] from the lobby, the first one is the manager. The manager. Uhuh. Then there's

[2:08:44] three cat rooms, right? And then there's the another manager's

[2:08:50] office and then the break room. And then there's a surgical area

[2:08:55] which had separate ventilation. And then there's the officer's area which would

[2:09:00] be more human type. Right. Well, these were design decisions made

[2:09:06] in consult with shelter staff and I believe the intent was to have the

[2:09:11] manager close to the lobby so that they could oversee and be available for the

[2:09:16] public that might want to say, "Hey, I want to see the manager." And that was

[2:09:19] the reason that's located there. And then to your point, there was sort of a

[2:09:24] prioritization of the next things in line that we felt would benefit the

[2:09:28] public customer. And so, you know, that's how this plan

[2:09:33] evolved.

[2:09:36] So, that's the best I can answer your question, I'm afraid.

[2:09:42] Okay. At this time, we're going to take a 10-minut break. We'll come back at

[2:09:46] 7:40. And on my list, we'll start with uh Commissioner Oln, then we'll go to

[2:09:52] Crass, Rudy, Haney, and Sherman.

[2:21:08] We're ready in the chambers. The joint work session is called back to

[2:21:14] order. And on my list, we have uh starting with Assembly Member Crass.

[2:21:20] Uh thank you, Madam Chair. Um I uh I was I wanted to talk a little bit more about

[2:21:25] the operational and maintenance costs. Um and I know you're at 65% design, but

[2:21:30] then I've heard talk of you've already got the number of zone valves uh lined

[2:21:35] out. Um I know there's natural gas near the facility. Um so as we start to nail

[2:21:42] down some of those assumptions, do we have a good idea of what say the fuel

[2:21:46] usage would be annually? And um that's a good question. I would have

[2:21:52] to check with the engineers and get back to you, but we can get that answer to

[2:21:55] you. Um, that would be great. And as close as we could get with the

[2:22:00] um with the uh the electric cost as well, and I I understand that there's,

[2:22:07] you know, at this point in the design process, some of that's going to be up

[2:22:10] in the air, but that those would be good numbers to have on hand, kind of compare

[2:22:14] with our current facilities. Um, and

[2:22:18] then that is correct, isn't it? that there's a natural gas uh pipeline near

[2:22:23] this facility. Uh yes, there's an existing natural gas

[2:22:29] line down Leisure Street immediately adjacent to the property.

[2:22:34] Fantastic. Uh and then the one other question I had was on the uh there was

[2:22:40] some talk about the uh demographics and kind of plotting out the population and

[2:22:46] and needs of the community over time. And I was just wondering what if

[2:22:51] there could you quantify the assumptions in those demographic shifts.

[2:22:58] I would like to defer to Bruce who has stepped away, but there was a capacity

[2:23:02] study done with a five-year average and that was done at the time that we

[2:23:07] started on this project um at the and it culminated with 2022 and since then

[2:23:13] we've been working with Kimberly um to get uh numbers through 2023 and 2024 and

[2:23:20] it appears per the graphs and the data that they've shared that 2022 was the

[2:23:24] pinnacle and we're And it's actually think numbers are going down. Um so

[2:23:31] welcome back Bruce. Um question about capacity demographics.

[2:23:39] Thanks for coming back. Yeah my question was in regards to some of the uh

[2:23:43] underlying assumptions that were built into that capacity modeling.

[2:23:50] Sure. I heard Tracy addressing that. I think she hit it on the head. We looked

[2:23:55] at those past five years. 2022 was a peak intake period both for dogs and

[2:24:01] cats. And so the modeling was performed on that. And um we in making a

[2:24:09] projection of housing capacity that's necessary to make an assumption on

[2:24:14] length of stay. The shelter right now is operating at six. We plan the facility

[2:24:19] for 10. So an average length of stay of 10. And the idea is that with the

[2:24:24] numbers anyway, that provides some additional capacity so that you can

[2:24:29] operate the facility at the desired 80% occupancy rate. And the reason that's

[2:24:36] important is you always you don't want to operate a shelter with every kennel

[2:24:40] with an animal in it. You'd like to have 20% left so that you can clean, you can

[2:24:46] fix things, and so forth. So, at least on paper, this gives the shelter the

[2:24:52] capacity going into the future based on a peak um intake that we haven't seen in

[2:24:57] recent years. So, recent numbers appear to be lower.

[2:25:02] And I guess on that note of capacity, one follow-up question if I may.

[2:25:08] Um would would the shelter in with these sort of flexible kennels, say we had

[2:25:14] impounded like a a large dog dogard, you know, say 25 dogs. Um would it be

[2:25:22] possible for the existing shelter staff to manage that or

[2:25:28] uh that I'd say sort of an operational question, but in theory you can bring

[2:25:32] those animals into the shelter if you have room. And by the way, capacity

[2:25:37] varies day to day by day, week to week. So if you had the capacity there, you

[2:25:41] could bring them in. As far as caring for those animals, maybe Kim can address

[2:25:45] that. Yeah. So we have had a situation like

[2:25:48] that several years ago. Um when we have a huge intake of animals, um that's kind

[2:25:56] of like a disaster emergency response. So we would move as many animals out of

[2:26:00] our facility as we could as usually in those situations the animals coming in

[2:26:05] can't leave to foster care or something like that. Um if their intake is such

[2:26:10] that we are allowed to send them to foster or have other outcomes um we do

[2:26:14] that and we try to move them along our process and get the surreners needed or

[2:26:19] whatever may be needed so that we can move those animals out of our system as

[2:26:24] quickly as possible. It's kind of like an emergency shelter situation when you

[2:26:29] get a large quantity of animals like that. On that note, if I can follow up

[2:26:33] on that, if you look at slide uh 29, um it talks about the dual capacity

[2:26:40] aspects of these kennels. Um, and while there are currently 39 new kennels in

[2:26:46] the footprint, because they're all dual capacity with the gate in the middle, as

[2:26:50] you can see on the taped off floor patterns there, um, in an emergency

[2:26:55] situation, an emergency such as both of you were talking about, um, you could

[2:26:59] have a capacity of up to 78 dogs in an emergency situation. We are not staffed,

[2:27:04] um, currently with the FTEEs in place to be able to routinely do that. Um, but in

[2:27:09] an emergency situation or with a small overflow or something, we can hold more

[2:27:12] than the 39 and in fact up to 78. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner

[2:27:20] Olness. Yeah, maybe this is a question for the designer or animal shelter

[2:27:25] staff, but um in my experience, the way that I've personally utilized the

[2:27:30] shelter, um we routinely bring dogs in that are just coming in for microchips,

[2:27:37] rabies, and then going back out. They're not necessarily like intakes. Um

[2:27:42] especially in a situation where we bring in like six or seven sled dogs at a

[2:27:45] time. Um as I know like we have and other friends of mine have done in the

[2:27:49] past. um what would the flow look like um for that? Like looking at slide 25,

[2:27:55] how would animals be pushed through without kind of intruding on the staff

[2:28:00] space and uh not necessarily like staying there?

[2:28:06] Um I I can start that. I I think um it would partly be an operational issue.

[2:28:12] there are options available and again it would be bringing in those people

[2:28:17] through the main public access point that probably would be the primary way I

[2:28:22] would say if you had a concerted effort or groups of people coming in it might

[2:28:28] indicate um and it might well develop where that night drop ent developed as a

[2:28:34] you know direction to uh people coming to the shelter to go to that drop off

[2:28:39] area on the site plan you may have noticed there does a drop off area all

[2:28:43] along the front of the building. Could have a designated area for that and

[2:28:47] bring animals into the rear of the building. So, I don't know if Kim you

[2:28:52] had any want to add to that or these are issues. I mean, we're trying to provide

[2:28:59] flexible use um entrance points basically and it would I'm not sure Kim

[2:29:05] even knows how they would actually do it, but she may have some comment on

[2:29:10] um I would just want to add like that for sled dogs, especially large groups

[2:29:14] that sometimes we accommodate them outdoors and I would think that would be

[2:29:18] something we would continue to consider unless there was a better option.

[2:29:24] Yeah. And in that case, those definitely would come through the secure staffed

[2:29:28] rear area and arrangement would have to be to bring those animals in because

[2:29:33] that would be too much to envision even possibly bringing them through the front

[2:29:37] lobby. Commissioner Rudy, thank you. Um I kind

[2:29:43] of had a question similar to um Commissioner Oln actually. If it's not a

[2:29:47] large group, uh say somebody's coming in with one animal just for rabies or

[2:29:51] microchips, something that's not surgical and they're not getting um they

[2:29:55] don't have to go through intake either. Kind of a two-part question. Is is the

[2:29:59] surgical suite where stuff like that will take place? Just regular veterinary

[2:30:04] stuff that's not surgical? And if so, it does have the public bring in or staff,

[2:30:10] but anyway, going all the way down to the end of that half public, half staff

[2:30:14] only area just for routine things like

[2:30:20] that. Um, the medical area would be for veterinary procedures specifically. So,

[2:30:27] um, for walk-in like babies, vaccines, we would take them to the dog intake

[2:30:31] room because that's what that room set up for. um for safe handling and for

[2:30:36] vaccine storage.

[2:30:41] Thank you. Um uh I have a lot of questions. I'll pick one one more maybe.

[2:30:48] Um two more. Do we know the R value of the roof and ceiling in the proposed

[2:30:53] plan?

[2:30:56] Thank you.

[2:31:01] Uh, I was hoping for um either or maybe both an approximate cost per square foot

[2:31:06] for the building itself and how much of the 33 million that we've heard is the

[2:31:11] building design and construction itself and how much is outside of that scope.

[2:31:19] I'll defer the cost questions to Marco. Thank you. Um, our average wall is R45

[2:31:30] minimum and the roof is a 90. Thank you.

[2:31:37] And I'm sorry, but you have to uh remind me real quick uh the questions regarding

[2:31:41] the budget or the cost. Yeah, I had two. uh what the approximate cost for per

[2:31:46] square foot for the building is

[2:31:51] um at the 65% estimate. Uh again, we got this u some a little bit little while

[2:31:58] ago. Um but the the cost per square foot was around

[2:32:03] uh $1350 a square foot.

[2:32:09] And how much of the 33 million that we've heard for the budget for the

[2:32:13] project is uh design and construction of the building and how much of that is

[2:32:17] outside the scope of the actual building.

[2:32:21] Uh going to have to dig uh through my paperwork here, but I can get back to

[2:32:25] you on that. Thank you. And for the 1350 per square foot

[2:32:32] um is a obviously everything here is higher

[2:32:37] than average but that sounds much higher than the average cost per square foot

[2:32:44] from all my research I've done on human and animal shelters and medical clinics

[2:32:48] and facilities. Um, can you speak to why that might be

[2:32:54] more than three times the average cost that I've seen for similar things in the

[2:32:59] probably in the states? So, that'll be a big part of it, but what that increase

[2:33:02] in cost per square foot is, please.

[2:33:09] Well, while Marco is looking up some things there, um, it's, as I mentioned

[2:33:14] earlier, our database we've looked at and the cost on average adjusted for

[2:33:21] Alaska is $1,200 plus dollars a square foot. There are certain things in the

[2:33:27] 1300 number that maybe are not standard for lower 48 shelters. So, for example,

[2:33:34] a humidification system. Um that number I think also included the additive

[2:33:40] alternates that may or may not get funded. And then lastly, maybe most

[2:33:44] importantly, it's very important and cost estimating to look at what's in the

[2:33:49] unit cost that one is talking about. Conventional practice is to include the

[2:33:53] cost of the building and the site work attributable to it in a unit cost. So it

[2:34:00] may be I'm not sure what other numbers you've looked at but the 1,200 a foot

[2:34:05] mark is what would be an average cost if built in Alaska for shelters of this

[2:34:12] type and that includes the immediate site work. But if you were bringing

[2:34:17] utilities and so forth to the building from another uh area that would not be

[2:34:22] included in those kind of reference numbers where we're talking about cost

[2:34:26] per square foot. Thank you. And my understanding is utilities would have to

[2:34:30] be brought to this property. They're not there already. Is that correct?

[2:34:35] Um I guess speaking utilities, I think we mentioned earlier the

[2:34:39] um the natural gas line that's immediately adjacent to the facility. Um

[2:34:45] electrical would have to be brought overhead power lines. The cost there is

[2:34:49] is negligible. Um there is been a more recent development with the neighboring

[2:34:56] south property uh that is undergoing development and

[2:35:01] uh the entity I guess that is developing

[2:35:05] that that south lot is actually taking it upon themselves to already be

[2:35:10] installing a sewer main line um coordinating with uh the local utilities

[2:35:15] there. And so that that portion of the cost is is potentially going down.

[2:35:21] They're not complete with that uh sewer line. Um they've also mentioned that

[2:35:25] they intend to install a water line as well. So those are potential reductions

[2:35:30] in costs. Um however, when we go to tie in to said utilities, we would have to

[2:35:36] pay a premium um because we we did not build that ourselves. So there's there's

[2:35:41] a give and a take and it's that that portion of the cost is up in the air as

[2:35:46] far as connection to the utilities. Um design is still in flux in in that in

[2:35:51] that aspect. Are those utilities anticipated costs

[2:35:55] included in the 33 million that we've been hearing or is that outside of that?

[2:36:00] Yes. Yes, those costs were anticipated as part of this project. Thank you.

[2:36:08] All right. Um, Assembly Member Haney, thank you very much. And I have two

[2:36:13] questions. The first one is to do with the kennels. On your website, you

[2:36:18] feature Shot Creek Kennel construction, uh, which you say creates the national

[2:36:24] standard for the most hygienic and durable dog kennels that cost less than

[2:36:29] any other methods of construction. But I notice here that we have stainless

[2:36:34] steel. Can you explain the difference? Sure. Thank you for asking that

[2:36:42] question. Um the when it's when I said that the it's a lease cost solution for

[2:36:50] that kind of kennel, it's superior to either masonry walls, which um I think

[2:36:56] there's some of those in the kennel today. Masonry has a problem that has

[2:37:00] joints every 8 in. So it's not ideal from a clinic standpoint.

[2:37:05] And it's more costefficient than there's even a more expensive way of kenneling

[2:37:11] which uses glazed vitrius block which is another masonry solution. So what we did

[2:37:17] is we found partly in California there's a lot of swimming pools and so a lot of

[2:37:24] those go in with shock creep. So, we found a a a method of building kennel

[2:37:29] walls up about four to even higher feet out of six inch wide concrete. And then

[2:37:37] you can build those kennels kind of like you would a skate park where you have

[2:37:41] and stuff in between it and coat it with the urethane coating. So,

[2:37:47] that's that was what that referred to when you saw it on our website. So, for

[2:37:52] your project, we uh because of a budgetary concern and perhaps because of

[2:37:57] a general lack of swimming pools. Do I have that right? Yes.

[2:38:03] Maybe there's a lot of ice rinks. But anyway, that type of construction wasn't

[2:38:08] deemed feasible. And so the next best thing would be to skinny it way down and

[2:38:13] have 6-in curbs that also are built like little mini skate parks and be coated so

[2:38:19] that you don't get crosscontamination between each kennel. And then on top of

[2:38:23] that is built the stainless steel caging system. So for this situation, I think

[2:38:29] it's the um reasonable cost to give you the same general effect and there will

[2:38:35] be solid panels between the kennels to keep dogs from, you know, um interacting

[2:38:41] as much as possible. I know this I know the sound issue is kind of a thing. I

[2:38:46] know a lot of times with shelters, right? Appreciate that. So it's a good

[2:38:51] solution. I think it'll be very durable for you. My other question may not be

[2:38:55] something in your valley wicked. It may be in the burrows, but I'm kind of cons

[2:39:00] wonder wondering if uh we've done much in the way of water quality testing or

[2:39:05] soil testing on this site. Um was looking over some older

[2:39:12] uh older information and wondering if uh any of the stuff had been tested

[2:39:17] recently. Thank you. Um, prior to purchase of the site, the

[2:39:23] bureau had paid a consultant to do ground soil testing, hazardous material

[2:39:28] test, and whatnot. Um, I don't have that reference on hand, but I can tell you

[2:39:34] that everything came back uh um normal.

[2:39:41] Great. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Sherman,

[2:39:47] with us as we um ask our questions. So, a question back to the walls for the um

[2:39:54] dog kennels. So, you answered a couple of my questions, but how does the

[2:39:59] current design you're using with stainless steel

[2:40:02] um what kind of sound reduction is used? Because that is one of those things they

[2:40:08] talk about with having a good experience. It's not as super noisy for

[2:40:12] any of the dogs or for less of the dogs and the exotics. And how is that? What

[2:40:17] are you using for sound reduction in those walls?

[2:40:21] So the stainless steel is between the kennels. Um we then have a ways coating

[2:40:27] in the kennel proper the surrounding um that's um impermanable and sanitary. Um

[2:40:35] and then above that we do have acoustical treatment and we have

[2:40:37] acoustical treatment of the ceiling. So that's to sound that's to um uh hinder

[2:40:43] reverberation and and assist with sound. It's not it's not going to be a quiet

[2:40:48] room necessarily. Um but then we also use insulation and a uh sound wall

[2:40:54] separation from room to to mitigate that sound transferring.

[2:41:01] Thank you. That and so back to the kennels, the cat kennels. Can you tell

[2:41:05] me what the ASV I looked for it and I cannot find it the recommended size for

[2:41:12] a cat kennel because looking on your I know you have it there which is very

[2:41:16] hard for me to read and um can you tell me what size the kennels are in your

[2:41:22] current new design please and if they've meet ASVA ASV standards. Thank you.

[2:41:36] Well, Tracy's looking for that. I'm not sure I have that answer for you tonight,

[2:41:39] so we probably have to get back to you on that. But

[2:41:44] yeah,

[2:41:48] into the microphone, please, Miss Sherman. Thanks. Right. not shown as

[2:41:53] drawn in like the dog kennels are size-wise and and and so I was just

[2:41:57] wondering because they look pretty small and I'm just wondering about the that

[2:42:02] part of the design. We can get you that back. And the key thing is that those

[2:42:07] are double-sided kennels, too. So, they'll have a portal in it that you can

[2:42:11] open and the cat can go from one side to other all of the cat cages.

[2:42:18] I have uh a couple questions. Um, similar to the 1,200 square ft and the

[2:42:23] 1350 square uh cost per square foot, how does the cost of this facility compare

[2:42:29] to plans in other similar communities? Has that been evaluated?

[2:42:36] Um, I can answer that. We There's not a lot of other um what I would call proper

[2:42:44] um shelters built in in the state of Alaska. Um, you have the one in

[2:42:49] Anchorage, you have the one in Matsu, there's probably some others. Um, I

[2:42:54] would say some of them are not advisable that built in recent years or planned.

[2:42:59] Your facility, I think I can say this, when

[2:43:03] built will be the best shelter in the state of Alaska. And the reason is

[2:43:09] because we built it from the ground up based on shelter medicine best

[2:43:14] practices. Kind of end of story. And we've done so with a the a as as

[2:43:19] expensive as it is, it's the most efficient shell of a building that has

[2:43:24] all the right components in it arranged in the right way. So that is what I'm

[2:43:30] kind of claiming for you if you find it useful. I don't know. This is something

[2:43:35] you know be a little bit of bragging rights for Fairbanks in the

[2:43:39] future. But um as far as the what was the rest of your question? And I I

[2:43:44] wanted to get that off my shoulder. Yeah. Comparable cost. Yeah. So I

[2:43:49] mentioned we So there when you look at costs of shelters in Alaska, you'd have

[2:43:55] to take the bigger ones like Anchorage and escalate it as I've done with other

[2:43:59] shelters in uh in particular the other western states. And so what I've done is

[2:44:04] I've escalated all those to current and compared them. And I think the $1,300 a

[2:44:10] foot, which Marco mentioned, it probably includes the additive alternates if I'm

[2:44:16] not mistaken. Your base cost is more like $1,200 square foot. And as Tracy

[2:44:20] mentioned, this is in flux because we're just now putting together 90 95%

[2:44:25] package. But that $1,200 a square foot average cost which includes the

[2:44:31] building, the built-in furnishings, the caging, the site work on the project,

[2:44:37] but not serving utilities. That cost is comparable to

[2:44:43] the average cost of shelters built in the western US. So, I wanted to make

[2:44:50] sure you understood you're getting a shelter that's in the right price point

[2:44:54] for what you're getting basically. And when you look at the shelter that

[2:45:00] that is proposed even at 65%.

[2:45:06] What grade would you give it when you know in comparison are we getting an A+?

[2:45:12] Are we getting something that is um you know the the Lexus or the Jaguar or are

[2:45:18] we getting something that's more practical like the Ford um which is kind

[2:45:23] of more our speed. You're getting four smiley faces on this project. It's No,

[2:45:29] it's not. Yeah. Well, I don't like to use the car analogy exactly, but I would

[2:45:36] just tell you that this shelter has all the basic things you would want to have

[2:45:40] in it for a shelter built today that's going to serve Fairbanks for the next

[2:45:45] 20, 30, 50 years. Um, and so it's not it's definitely not

[2:45:52] a I'm trying to think of a good car. No, I mean, this is like it's like the Ford

[2:45:58] fully loaded. It's got the all the right stuff in it, but it's, you know, not on

[2:46:02] the extremes of um the cost range. Thank you for that. One other question

[2:46:08] is on the um secure staff side of the building. We haven't talked much about

[2:46:14] that and I noticed on the on the plans that there's a a gate um and then the

[2:46:20] word secure staff makes me think that that it's not open to the public.

[2:46:24] However, it looks like the night drop and the way that we've been talking

[2:46:28] about that seems like there would be public access. So, could you explain

[2:46:32] that a little bit more? Sure. Um, I guess we need one of the

[2:46:38] maybe the site plan pulled up or how would you like to I think um Yeah, that

[2:46:44] that's a good one.

[2:46:49] Sure. Oh, that needs to be turned off. So I would say I guess just looking at

[2:46:55] the facility there and you can see the fence line with with the dark line type

[2:47:01] um there is a pathway between the building and the fence to access the

[2:47:05] drop offs. Here's the public drive here and you can

[2:47:10] park here or drop off here or walk in here on this pathway to that night drop

[2:47:16] that was added since the 65 per direction of the burrow. um and to a

[2:47:21] covered door access for afterhour drop off and then it's separated by fencing

[2:47:28] secure fencing for this people were talking about safety in this

[2:47:32] neighborhood perhaps there is uh 8 foot fence mark 8ft fence um a keyed gate

[2:47:40] electronic gate um to allow access in and secured after um around that staff

[2:47:46] parking to separate that from this open public side. Okay. And then I'm assuming

[2:47:52] that there's a a separate staff entrance. The staff entrances. Yes.

[2:47:56] Yeah. If you can you move forward on the slide, there's just a hint of a faint

[2:48:01] line dashed and a gate. Correct. There's a locked um separation here. Oh, it's so

[2:48:09] part of that secure fencing line. So staff can enter this way. This is

[2:48:13] actually the canopy above. So it's not Yeah, there's a lot being shown right

[2:48:17] here on this drawing, but Okay, thank you. Yeah,

[2:48:22] next I have Thank you. Um, so most of my questions

[2:48:29] have been asked, but Bruce, I have to correct you. We happen to have a lot of

[2:48:32] pools here in Fairbanks. They're huge. We happen to call them gravel pits. But,

[2:48:38] uh, so I guess I my question I guess is going to be to the administration. I

[2:48:43] think I know it. Who plows Leisure Street? Should be the city. Correct.

[2:48:49] That would be my guess. I don't have that answer specifically, but I would

[2:48:53] guess so. It's not going to be in our service areas. It's going to be in the

[2:48:55] city limits for sure. Okay. Little bit of a concern

[2:49:00] there. for some reason this plan were to go forward, I think we would have to

[2:49:05] work with the city on plowing that a little more frequently because they tend

[2:49:10] to ignore those side roads, especially going into that kind of industrial area.

[2:49:14] And then I know Miss Haney asked about the contamination issue. I know there's

[2:49:18] a junkyard right behind it. Have we done any kind of drilling or core sampling

[2:49:23] just to see you remember? Geez, what was it? The battery place was right across

[2:49:28] the street that contaminated all of that. Have we have we sampled anything

[2:49:32] over there for potential? Again, prior to purchase of the

[2:49:37] property, we do soil samples to uh to try to assess any hazardous materials.

[2:49:44] Um none were uh nothing more than than normal was observed.

[2:49:51] Okay. All right. Thank you. and I will reach out to the city public works

[2:49:56] department to make sure if and when this project goes forward that they plow it

[2:49:59] better. Commissioner Rudy, thank you.

[2:50:04] Um, for the staff um, gate entrance, is are you guys planning on using a

[2:50:11] motorized sliding gate for access

[2:50:22] for staff entrance at the back? Are you planning on using a motorized sliding

[2:50:26] gate for entrance?

[2:50:31] I think your microphone needs to turn on. Apologies. Um, it is a an electric

[2:50:37] sliding gate on rollers from the top. And there is not a keypad. There's

[2:50:42] actually a device in the vehicles that can be uh transferred from vehicle to

[2:50:48] vehicle and a reader. So when you approach from either side, the gate will

[2:50:52] open for you. I uh professionally recommend

[2:50:58] considering anything other than a sliding gate for Alaska. Um pushing it

[2:51:04] through snow unless people are going to be diligent daily when it's snowing.

[2:51:08] You're going to have a lot of operating costs moving forward with service to

[2:51:12] that sort of system. And um the majority of calls we've done on that sort of

[2:51:16] thing are because people aren't shoveling daily. So, it is a an

[2:51:20] expenditure in the future to consider for that kind of specifically sliding

[2:51:23] motorized gates um in the snowy season. Yeah, I'm going to let Marco speak to

[2:51:29] that.

[2:51:36] Um just a little bit of knowledge to other projects that the bureau has has

[2:51:41] had their hand in. um the the burough transit facility uh

[2:51:47] which was newly constructed. I know that the lifting gates were um were thought

[2:51:52] of uh being implemented but u um I think through discussions with our maintenance

[2:51:59] department as well as the staff that would be managing the facility um they

[2:52:03] thought it'd be best to keep with the rollers. Um and so likewise we uh we

[2:52:08] kept that with that method for for this facility.

[2:52:13] Thank you. I uh work for a company that does a lot of the maintenance on a lot

[2:52:16] of the um burrow gates and a lot of gates in town. Actually, we don't

[2:52:19] anymore because it's such a um service uh difficult service to offer.

[2:52:25] Um people don't like to pay a professional to come out and tell them

[2:52:27] that now you have to pay $300 because we shoveled the snow for you, which is a

[2:52:31] very common thing for us to encounter. So, I don't expect it to change, but it

[2:52:34] is something to consider um how that might affect costs moving forward with

[2:52:40] that kind of gate access. And do I have time for another question? I was

[2:52:45] wondering how much the um programmatical needs analysis from

[2:52:49] 2017 influenced the current shelter design.

[2:52:58] Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. We use that as a reference document before

[2:53:02] we started work on the updated planning study which was based on

[2:53:08] 2022 figures. So we leveraged what we could from it. I don't remember

[2:53:12] particulars but it was we realized the bureau paid for that. So we wanted to

[2:53:17] make sure we made best use of it going forward.

[2:53:21] I I have a copy of it and there I have a lot of questions about things that the

[2:53:26] that were deemed requirements for a new facility

[2:53:30] that might not necessarily be the new plans. Um and most notably, I'm

[2:53:36] wondering why how the Sallyport ended up as an additional add-on considering how

[2:53:41] important it seems to be for the shelter. It's part of a PNA that was

[2:53:45] done and a lot of people in the community and other commissioners have

[2:53:49] been very vocal about the need for a Sallyport at the shelter.

[2:53:57] So, sorry, the question is why is that an additional add-on and not part

[2:54:01] considered a an essential requirement for the design?

[2:54:05] I would have to say uh it's mainly due to cost constraints with the overall

[2:54:10] project budget and uh trying to get a functioning facility um that

[2:54:16] would um fit our community for the next 50 years. And um it was determined that

[2:54:24] uh the Sallyport would be relatively easier to add on in the future than to

[2:54:30] try and add core kennel spaces. Um, so that was uh that was the the reasoning.

[2:54:38] I do think maybe other people here have the same as experience I do, but

[2:54:42] additions on existing buildings um do have a lot of potential to separate from

[2:54:49] the builder, you know, cause problems later down the road when they're not

[2:54:52] part of the the initial heart of the structure. Um we've torn a couple down

[2:54:56] on our house the last few years that we thought were going to be great add-ons.

[2:54:59] Um, but the is there anything else in the plans

[2:55:04] that would be less I don't want to say important. Is

[2:55:09] there anything that could be given from elsewhere to to have a Sallyport? In the

[2:55:13] PNA, it does reference the Sallyport is needed to continue the drive-through

[2:55:16] rabies clinics. So without it, I'm wondering how in this flow those

[2:55:20] drive-through clinics would happen too.

[2:55:25] uh the intent the drive-through rabies clinic could happen at that front curb

[2:55:30] cut and it would be an outdoor activity was one option. Um also since that study

[2:55:35] we um have started offering rabies vaccines daily instead of a annual

[2:55:41] drive-through clinic. So we haven't been hosting those. It's good to hear they're

[2:55:46] daily. Is the drive-through clinic then not a concern moving forward?

[2:55:50] Not currently. Thank you.

[2:55:54] I'll wait my turn for some more questions. Thank you. Okay. Um my intent

[2:55:59] is that we wrap wrap up uh this meeting uh at 9:00 or before. So I just want to

[2:56:06] set that intention to to the body. Um Assembly Member Ree Ramos.

[2:56:12] Um thank you. Uh first I want to um say thank you for everyone coming down here.

[2:56:19] this has been um really helpful and uh just the your the beginning presentation

[2:56:26] alone answered a lot of questions that I think a lot of people had probably by

[2:56:30] design that's probably why you guys said what you did but this has been very

[2:56:33] great um my question is to the administration and

[2:56:38] it's not really for me but just for anybody who's listening when you

[2:56:42] mentioned earlier that the animal shelter you know went through the kit

[2:56:47] process and it became became the highest priority. I think I think you said it

[2:56:51] was the the highest priority. Can you explain that a little bit just so people

[2:56:54] can understand like this is something that the community wanted?

[2:57:00] That certainly um through the the chair. So I have not

[2:57:06] gone personally through the KIPP scoring process, but it's something we've talked

[2:57:09] a fair bit about especially with uh school district projects and things like

[2:57:12] that. Um there's a a objective scoring process that looks at, you know,

[2:57:17] replacement needs, safety requirements, needs of the community, um impacts, uh

[2:57:23] and low threshold for the um existing facility that's there.

[2:57:28] Um and all of those different scoring processes raised this one to have the

[2:57:34] highest need. And then it also went in front of the assembly where it was

[2:57:37] ranked um on a more subjective basis uh from the mayor at the time and to the

[2:57:42] assembly to make sure that it was also voted on by a public process that looked

[2:57:47] at um additional needs and realities of the the situation there. So um through

[2:57:52] all those different processes a number of years ago it came forward as the

[2:57:54] number one need based on the age of the current facility the the um the relative

[2:58:01] improvements from the existing infrastructure to the current to this

[2:58:05] new shelter and how great of a of an impact that would be. Um and that need

[2:58:11] has only grown in the community. So um I could walk through the scoring process

[2:58:16] and my trusty chief of staff says oh I stand corrected. It is the number two

[2:58:21] facility the transit garage

[2:58:26] ah that we had already so the number one ranking was the transit garage um and

[2:58:31] that has been built and so now we are this has now become the number one

[2:58:36] thank you assembly member Wilson

[2:58:41] so I guess I just want to put on the record I don't think there's anybody

[2:58:44] that disagrees that there's issues with the current animal shelter so I can see

[2:58:48] where it's number one, I think where the debate is really getting is how big, how

[2:58:52] much money, you know, is the community as a whole willing to spend. So I So I

[2:58:57] can see how I could get to number one, but I guess I just need a little bit

[2:59:01] more clarification on the price and what's included in it. Are we still at

[2:59:05] the percentage that we're at now still talking about $33 million total

[2:59:18] cost? Uh overall project costs, yes, around that.

[2:59:24] Okay. And so earlier you said it was $1,350 a square foot for the building

[2:59:30] itself. So based on that, it would be at

[2:59:36] 23,944,950 for just a simple math. So can you tell me then where does the

[2:59:41] other $10 million come into? I mean, is it the barn? Is it what exact, you know,

[2:59:47] where are we spending 10 more million dollars at?

[2:59:53] Um so overall project costs um have included the purchase of the site um

[3:00:00] have included uh time u for burough staff has also included um our our

[3:00:07] consultants to do the design also had third party uh consultants to review the

[3:00:13] estimate and review structural design. Um and so

[3:00:18] uh in addition to um I guess the the number that you had quoted, we build in

[3:00:25] contingencies. Uh we can't we can't go to construction with just uh the money

[3:00:31] that is for the estimate. So So it would be nice to have figures to

[3:00:35] all those things that you added, but and maybe I'm incorrect on something. So,

[3:00:40] the barn, the other buildings that are there, what square footage cost are

[3:00:46] those? Cuz if I understood correctly while ago, you said 1350 was just for

[3:00:50] the main building. So, I I have to I guess state again that

[3:00:55] the 1350 was the number for the 65% estimate. The project is has continued

[3:01:02] on with design. Things are are changing around the site like like utilities.

[3:01:07] Um so the things are are in flux. Um as far as the

[3:01:16] um the it's not the outdoor kennel when we um so the the 1350 per square foot is

[3:01:23] for the construction of the actual building. Correct.

[3:01:27] It I guess I' like to state again that was for the 65% estimate. Um, it's for

[3:01:33] the overall project costs kind of boiled down to building square footage. So, it

[3:01:39] would be the utility costs. It would also be all the site work um and and and

[3:01:45] such. Okay. And then on top of that, there would be the contingency cost, the

[3:01:48] um design, the consultants, the um other things that are built in um the land,

[3:01:53] the utilities and things like that. Or is the utilities included? Do you know

[3:01:57] off the top of your head? And if we need to get back to this, that's that's

[3:02:00] perfectly fine. We certainly can.

[3:02:04] Uh, I think we can get back to it at a later date so I can maybe dig up some

[3:02:08] more specific numbers, but uh um to state this that the the purchase of the

[3:02:13] property is not included in in the construction costs.

[3:02:17] Gotcha. And Marco, real quick, uh have we gone out to bid? Have we accepted

[3:02:22] bids for this project yet? Oh, no. And what would a bid tell us when we do go

[3:02:26] out to a bid?

[3:02:30] Uh, a bid would tell us um I guess how accurate the estimate is. Um, if the bid

[3:02:37] comes in over or comes in under um it uh for a project of this scale, I

[3:02:44] could say in comparison to like the transit facility, it came in

[3:02:48] significantly under what was estimated. So, it's um estimates

[3:02:54] are are in a sense like a best guess. and uh things like uh inflation and uh

[3:03:02] uncertainty uh really change things. So it's it is a best guess.

[3:03:08] Madam Chair, could I get a little clarification? I because I heard a lot

[3:03:12] of figures. So is it 1350 a square foot or 1550 a square foot?

[3:03:18] Because you said both while ago, did I? Uh 13. So we're back to 1350. I've only

[3:03:24] heard 1350. I've never heard 1550. Well, I think they were adding in some like

[3:03:30] the Okay, that's good. I thought that's maybe I didn't. Um, so we're going to be

[3:03:36] able to get a breakdown what all those additional costs like what we've spent

[3:03:39] thus far and then what are because this is just construction for the 1350 per

[3:03:45] square foot, but there's going to be a lot of other the rest of the design, you

[3:03:51] know, um, like they said, leveling of the sites, all those other types of

[3:03:54] things for the um, we can we'd be happy to get what has been expended and al um,

[3:04:00] and what's the word I'm looking for? um put aside already for the the cost for

[3:04:05] design and and consultants and things like that. We'd be happy to um get that

[3:04:09] cost to to the assembly of what's already been spent for purchase of the

[3:04:12] property for design so far up to 65% at this point. That would then grow as we

[3:04:16] go to 95% and and beyond. Um in terms of what and then what the bid would come

[3:04:24] in, we won't know. So that cost might come down in terms of what would fill

[3:04:28] those numbers. We could get a breakdown, but the most accurate thing so far is

[3:04:31] going to be what we would have spent already. And I'm happy to to provide

[3:04:34] that. And would it show the contingencies? Because I keep hearing

[3:04:37] 10%. All the all the extra things have not necessarily been added in here. And

[3:04:41] what those extra things are extra things is in the additive. So you have your

[3:04:47] base price and then base bid and then um the consultants have talked a little bit

[3:04:52] about there were possible other ads that are not part of that. I don't know what

[3:04:56] that list even looks like. Right. And I believe there's five items. We can

[3:04:58] include that as well. It's it's if the bid comes in lower than the 33 million

[3:05:03] that's been allocated. We have an opportunity um to decide if we want to

[3:05:07] add on a Sallyport, add on additional um kennels as as this slide shows. Uh we

[3:05:13] can provide a narrative about that whole breakdown as well for the different

[3:05:15] costs and what those Sallyport and what that list of five items four or five

[3:05:19] items would be. And I believe uh Miss Vanerdale also had some added additions

[3:05:24] additives to my statement. Thanks. So, I wanted to add just a little bit of

[3:05:27] clarity. Um, typically what our approach is is to design to 95% of a budget in

[3:05:33] that our cost estimators, which I appreciate the bureau's due diligence to

[3:05:38] have another cost estimator um vet the exact estimate, all documents, all

[3:05:44] estimates to make sure um nothing was missed. Um, that has a a contingency um

[3:05:50] for the unknowns applied to that. And that contingency starts at our early

[3:05:54] estimates at something like it could be up to 20 30%. To talk about, you know,

[3:05:59] economic unknowns, inflations, um, labor pools and such and considerations. And

[3:06:05] as the design gets more developed and each of these submitts that I described,

[3:06:09] the 35% the 65% each one of those gets priced and comes out with a complete

[3:06:14] cost estimate line item by line item that we quantify and check and make sure

[3:06:19] it it matches our models and our design intents. Um that contingency is reduced.

[3:06:24] So we have um we are kind of carry this responsibility of the construction

[3:06:30] contingency on that cost estimating set. The bureau on their own cover a project

[3:06:36] contingency for those other unknowns. So there's a little there's there's

[3:06:42] different areas of that that I want to um identify. So we design to 95% of the

[3:06:49] budget, the construction budget, not the project budget, the construction budget

[3:06:53] that the bureau gives us. And then we design upwards from there to 105 or more

[3:07:00] percent in these design additives, these things that are on our wish list.

[3:07:06] They're really really important, but we've made conscious decisions with

[3:07:11] direction um on what could be parcled and quantified added within this bid or

[3:07:20] added in the future. The bureau could decide in a year or two or whatever add

[3:07:25] these components in and we've accounted for those in the ventilation, the

[3:07:29] structural, maybe even in the over excavation so that an addition can be

[3:07:33] built um readily. So that's how we design for these four. Right now we're

[3:07:39] tracking four design um additives. Thank you.

[3:07:46] I just recommend that that that those answers are very clear for tomorrow. I

[3:07:50] think that the public will really want to know those specifics and that that

[3:07:55] those answers are really well understood by the project team um to present

[3:08:00] tomorrow. Okay. On my list I have Mr. Leginus, Miss Haney, Miss Rudy, Miss

[3:08:07] Sherman, Mr. Leginus. Thank you, Madam Chair. You just kind of touched on one

[3:08:14] of the questions I had for the administration um for tomorrow's

[3:08:18] presentation. Are you guys planning on listing like some of the questions and

[3:08:23] answers that was uh asked and provided this evening to streamline the public's

[3:08:30] comment? Um I was just texting with the public works team now or messaging with

[3:08:35] them to make sure we have at least a narrative to understand what those that

[3:08:39] um difference is the delta and the um from construction to full project bid

[3:08:43] cost and the estimate that we're putting forward and the the best that we'll be

[3:08:46] able to give is what we'll make sure we're there to streamline it tomorrow

[3:08:49] night. Yeah. Not just the uh cost and stuff but like just the generic uh

[3:08:56] questions that have been asked tonight. um to the chair. We'll probably run most

[3:09:02] of the similar slideshow. Um the cost the questions that we have, we'll uh

[3:09:07] we'll be happy to include as many of them in the opening and comments as in

[3:09:11] the presentation as we can. If there are specific things you would like to make

[3:09:14] sure that we do include, I'll be happy to make sure I do that. Thank you. Um

[3:09:18] and then the the other one uh thanks the administration for putting this

[3:09:22] together. This is is huge. the transparency for uh us and the uh public

[3:09:28] is important. Um so knowing that um as costs go up uh

[3:09:36] the further out these projects get pushed

[3:09:42] um if the assembly were to appropriate the 33 million to start construction say

[3:09:48] next year it's sounding like and correct me if I'm wrong that

[3:09:53] um that would include all these additive um additive

[3:10:02] alternates the sally port the Yeah, usually that that's a really good

[3:10:07] question assembly member legis generally what we do is um have a base bid package

[3:10:14] that goes out and then uh when bids come in um any additional alternates that

[3:10:20] we're able to fund with the appropriation uh we have a conversation

[3:10:24] and start ranking and seeing which one of those we can fit into the project.

[3:10:27] Um, but it depends on what how the bids come back.

[3:10:32] But isn't the 33 million to kind of cover that from what I was

[3:10:37] hearing include all the added alternate you just spoke on Tracy?

[3:10:48] Sure. So, um, as as Kuba was stating, um, once

[3:10:55] we receive the bids, we will then look at those with reference to how much

[3:11:00] money we have for construction and if we can afford the additional alternates,

[3:11:05] the additive of alternates. Then the bureau at the option can select for the

[3:11:11] contractor to construct that to include it in their contract. if we don't have

[3:11:15] the funds because um bids can go up and down. We don't know what the bids are

[3:11:21] until we get them. Um only if we have the funds available to construct would

[3:11:27] we then include it into the project. It's not uh um guaranteed.

[3:11:35] Okay. I just would uh have one more. Um, so not only are these added

[3:11:42] alternates kind of part of the bid, I guess, um,

[3:11:47] or price tag, what other like amenity style items

[3:11:54] are included, you know, be it with a barn, the corral, the dog sled area, and

[3:12:00] and any medical equipment, be it like an X-ray or

[3:12:05] ultrasound. Um, Is there anything that I considered?

[3:12:23] Um, this is Commissioner Rosenberg. Can I just be totally out of turn and say

[3:12:29] the shelter fund bought an ultrasound and if there's specific medical

[3:12:34] equipment that the veterinarian would like, we would buy that.

[3:12:39] Thank you. Commissioner, would the administration like to weigh in

[3:12:43] additionally?

[3:12:47] The equipment that will throughout the facility is is included in the design

[3:12:52] package. Um, so that would include the stuff that is going to be within the

[3:12:57] surgery suite. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. That's all. All right. Uh,

[3:13:03] Assembly Member Haney. Hi. Thank you. I want to make sure I following you

[3:13:09] correctly on the night drop because I think I see a problem in how you have

[3:13:14] that set up. Can you walk me through that one more time, please?

[3:13:27] do this from here if that's okay. So from the

[3:13:32] exterior you would walk along that path into the building that door I'm sorry.

[3:13:39] Okay, I'll go up there. Here

[3:13:45] [Music] you can

[3:13:48] click. So, you're actually going to have to walk around the building with the

[3:13:52] animal to get to the night. There's no way to pull up to the

[3:13:58] door to the night drop. Correct. There would be a short walk. It's not far.

[3:14:04] Lighted. Um there would also uh Yeah. And then covered here. The concern was

[3:14:10] how many exterior doors on the facility total would have to be monitored and

[3:14:15] they wanted to be sort of clustered, have canopy protection and be lit. So

[3:14:20] also be in a proximity where the staff could enter in that room from a separate

[3:14:25] door and access the animals and bring them directly inside. So where um and be

[3:14:31] directly brought to the intake room and then into possibly quarantine or such.

[3:14:37] So um not knowing where the animal came from and and its um history. So that

[3:14:43] proximity was a leading factor of where these animals wanted to be brought in

[3:14:49] and uh processed I guess. So that happens

[3:14:54] here towards the back. Staff can then enter on a separate door. If you flip to

[3:15:00] the floor plan, Bruce, please. Um it might be best in the floor plan. So

[3:15:06] underneath this arrow is the public access door. So that would be unlocked

[3:15:09] at a certain time. The door into the facility would be locked. They would

[3:15:15] have the proper paperwork and um registration information there, access

[3:15:21] to water um to put into each of their kennels here and then um go as they

[3:15:27] please. And then at the certain hour that door would be locked and the staff

[3:15:32] could access in there safely um without interacting with the public if not

[3:15:37] needed. So is that ADA compliant? Yep. The reason why I'm I'm wondering okay

[3:15:44] and just pair with I'm walking through somebody right now through their sort of

[3:15:49] end of life stuff that's going on in their life and and actually one of the

[3:15:53] things they're having to do is get that and so um and I think with her she would

[3:16:00] never make that walk she would it would never even be possible for her and we

[3:16:04] have a community where the senior population is four times going four

[3:16:08] times faster than the rest population Um, and I think of quite often times

[3:16:14] when people are giving up their pets, it's uh either sort of a medical end of

[3:16:20] life near end of life kind of event or it's

[3:16:24] u they've tried to rehome it, can't rehome it, whatever reason. Um, having

[3:16:31] to give it up, heading out of town, financially desperate, blah blah blah.

[3:16:36] Um, and I just I think about the first scenario being a little bit more perhaps

[3:16:42] commonly based than the second one. And I I

[3:16:47] just I'm looking at that walk and I'm thinking, you know, December ice.

[3:16:57] That's fine.

[3:17:07] We would love as uh people that work with animals, rescuing animals, is for

[3:17:12] them to come during the day in the front door and meet with us face to face and

[3:17:17] explain to us this is why I have to give up my beloved animal. These are the

[3:17:21] things that they like. These are the things that they don't like. This is the

[3:17:24] kind of family I'd like them to be with. and then we can help so much more

[3:17:29] finding them the appropriate home. When they're dropped in the overnight boxes,

[3:17:34] um it is even if someone is very very diligent with the paperwork, it's very

[3:17:40] easy to miss details that can make that animal's life much better. And if you

[3:17:45] come to the front door, we're there to help you. If you need help with a

[3:17:49] wheelchair, with a pet, with a leash, that's what we're there for.

[3:17:54] I I appreciate that. Um I just know that I don't know how much you know about

[3:18:01] aging, but um there's um a phenomena called sun downers. I'm very familiar

[3:18:07] with it. And um they tend to sleep all day and they're up all night. Although

[3:18:12] it's kind of hard to tell in Alaska anyway because in the winter it's kind

[3:18:16] of all the same. Um, and I'm quite sure that a lot of times these decisions get

[3:18:21] made in those sundowner kind of hours. Thank you,

[3:18:27] Commissioner. Thank you. I have a a few questions. Um,

[3:18:32] if I may, what's the projected life of the building as it's designed so far?

[3:18:39] Um, 50 years the standard practice. Thank you. And uh see

[3:18:46] here going back to the kennels a little bit because I think I missed um

[3:18:50] something for for some of the noise control the panels between that are the

[3:18:55] stainless steel. Is there

[3:18:59] anything between the the different pieces of stainless steel? I know in

[3:19:05] like the current shelter kennels, the stainless steel walls have enough of a

[3:19:09] gap that they just fill with like putrid water from cleaning over the years. Um,

[3:19:15] are there spaces like that in these kennels that would need more drainage so

[3:19:19] that doesn't happen?

[3:19:23] Uh, I would say no. Uh, each kennel will be independently drained and there's no

[3:19:30] cross drainage between the kennels. I mean, from from like washing the walls

[3:19:36] and and spray from from the kennels getting into like cracks between two

[3:19:41] pieces of stainless steel and trapping water has been an issue with the

[3:19:45] existing um uh kennels. Yeah. Well, the modern

[3:19:50] kennel designs have a minimum of that. So, you never see them really with

[3:19:55] spaces created and so there shouldn't be a problem with that. And is there

[3:20:01] anything in there for noise reverberation control between the

[3:20:05] kennels? Seeing big pieces of stainless steel just brings back my vet clinic

[3:20:10] days with lots of large wobbly pieces of stainless steel getting barked at all

[3:20:17] day. Yeah. Well, I mean these these will be better constructed kennels, but

[3:20:21] there's not much you can do inside the kennels for noise mitigation.

[3:20:26] And was the reason that the shotcrete walls weren't gone with it was just a

[3:20:30] budgetary concern? Budgetary. There was on the website on Indigo's website, I

[3:20:35] believe it does reference that the uh it is the national standard for most

[3:20:38] hygienic and durable lasts or costs less than other methods of construction. And

[3:20:44] so what makes this method of construction less costly than the

[3:20:48] shotcrete option? Well, it doesn't have the concrete going up, just the curb. As

[3:20:53] I mentioned earlier, the uh standard for kennels and most cost effective is

[3:20:59] referring to other full height masonry kennels. So it' be concrete block coated

[3:21:06] or um glazed vitrius block which is quite

[3:21:12] expensive is another solution. And is um there are local contractors

[3:21:18] that do shot summer only um option but is that any is that included in any of

[3:21:24] the additional alternatives to do the shotcrete walls? No.

[3:21:30] I I think just to add a little bit I think when we did uh the skate park we

[3:21:34] did use shot but we had to bring a contractor from the lower 48 for that. I

[3:21:38] don't think there was someone who uh either bid or was able to do that here.

[3:21:43] Interesting. I wonder if um the local companies just didn't bid for some

[3:21:47] reason or maybe uh it is it does happen quite often the local contractors cannot

[3:21:51] possibly come in as a low bidder which how projects are we do get a lot of

[3:21:56] outside contractors that stuff for sure and I had one more do you know the

[3:22:01] current square footage of the storage in the new plan not including the inbuilt

[3:22:06] wall storage you mentioned that's like dedicated kennel storage is awesome that

[3:22:10] they have all that but maybe un structured isn't the right word. Um not

[3:22:16] defined what's going to be stored there yet, but just storage space.

[3:22:21] Um we can get you that square footage. I will say that every um room through

[3:22:29] either builtin or uh pieces of equipment have been identified. There are

[3:22:36] catalog pages of imagery that Dana has walked through with Kimberly Sandy and

[3:22:43] Dr. Pinto for every piece of equipment and exactly where it fits and it's in

[3:22:48] our model and shown as a outline. So everything is accounted for and been I

[3:22:54] don't know how many pages the um fixtures, furnishing and equipment is,

[3:22:58] but there's a stack of the items that are

[3:23:03] specific and located in the building. So thank you. Do you think that the the

[3:23:10] square footage might be um the same or more than the three ConX's worth of

[3:23:15] storage that are referenced in the PNA from 2017 that are on the current

[3:23:18] property being used as storage? Um well we still have those three conaxes on our

[3:23:22] site. So um a comparison of what is in there for

[3:23:29] emergency services and needs is uh not accounted for in the building. There's

[3:23:36] still some of that equipment outside in the conxes and maybe Sandy would like to

[3:23:41] speak or were you waving at me or just so will they be use utilizing outdoor

[3:23:47] unheated conx storage at the that's part of the the new plan as well.

[3:23:57] So the items stored in those conxes wouldn't be appropriate to be stored in

[3:24:03] the building itself. Those are items that are dedicated for emergency

[3:24:08] response for the most part. There is one ConX that has shelter related items in

[3:24:14] it. Um, but I have to admit, um, we can go

[3:24:20] through that and narrow that down quite a bit, I'm sure. Um, we tend to be on

[3:24:26] the hoarding side of some things. So when we move into a new facility, we'll

[3:24:31] pair that uh that down. Thank you. I I know in the PNA it was

[3:24:37] one of the main concerns was lack of storage at the current facility. Just

[3:24:40] looks from the design, just the areas for storage look small, but thank you. I

[3:24:46] appreciate the answers. Commissioner Sherman,

[3:24:52] if you could use your microphone. Thank you.

[3:24:57] It's okay. Thank you. Um, so on the add-ons it says

[3:25:03] humidification is an add-on. So can you walk me through how

[3:25:09] dehumidification is handled then throughout the building to prevent mold?

[3:25:14] I I mean how because we even though we're classified as a semierid region,

[3:25:21] we have a lot of humidity in the winter and people know about mold and it seems

[3:25:26] like it could be problematic for animal health and and particularly for the

[3:25:31] health of the people working there. So how will the removal of you know wet

[3:25:38] water you know how will dehumidification happen within the HVAC system?

[3:25:44] or whatever.

[3:25:49] Um, we could supply you a narrative from an engineer, our engineer specialist.

[3:25:54] Um, well,

[3:25:59] that would be great. Well, yeah, I am an architect, so I we could get that answer

[3:26:02] to you though in writing so that it could be u most accurate. What I can say

[3:26:07] is that we have and do provide humification in certain buildings. We

[3:26:12] just did the child development center out at Fort Wayne um for 400 kids um and

[3:26:21] that was designed as a humanified facility as a requirement. The surgery

[3:26:25] addition also at the Fair Memorial Hospital. So it's something that we have

[3:26:29] done before and uh worked successfully on um to create uh an envelope that

[3:26:37] prevents the mold in our assembly and through our

[3:26:43] mechanical engineers as well with the proper ventilation. We can provide that

[3:26:47] in the narrative to you. So it's so that's already in the design. It's not

[3:26:51] an add-on. Is that correct? I I guess that's what I was confused by. Right.

[3:26:55] It's a it's an additional um option should the project go forward. We have

[3:27:01] designed for that system. So we currently if we if they go ahead

[3:27:06] and they don't they decide not to pay for that. We don't have a humidification

[3:27:11] it will be without one. Would it be feasible economically

[3:27:16] to put one in if we found that we needed it? It seems pretty

[3:27:22] basic to speak to that. Okay. Thank you. And I have I promise I'll be

[3:27:27] as brief as I possibly can. I know other people have to go to work in the

[3:27:31] morning, too. So, I noticed there are a lot of kennel spaces for quarantine

[3:27:35] dogs. I'm wondering if there are more than it it

[3:27:39] seems to be more than is that the existing shelter? Are there more dogs

[3:27:44] being held in quarantine now on any given day? That's the first part of my

[3:27:49] question. Are there more? It's a pretty big quarantine space. So, um, are there

[3:27:55] more dogs? Is it an upward spiraling number? I know there's one another way

[3:28:00] to say that. There also seems to be a limited amount of kennel space for

[3:28:05] puppies and these guys have spoken to us many times about puppy pooas and um can

[3:28:11] could this be relatively inexpensively modified design-wise if needed or and I

[3:28:18] know you talk about operational choices but it seems to me that design and

[3:28:23] operation go hand in hand especially as you're beginning

[3:28:32] I'll I'll start then and Kim can follow up. Um all the room sizes and capacities

[3:28:39] were excuse me part of the initial study on the project. And so the quarantine

[3:28:45] space in particular was an assessed area for the amount of animals that would be

[3:28:51] coming in particularly from the acco side of things and some from the front

[3:28:56] of uh front of house. So I don't have the exact justification for that but

[3:29:01] that was calculation early in the design for the project.

[3:29:06] As far as the puppies go, we have one room which is really a small animals

[3:29:13] room and so there may be sometimes you have puppies and maybe other animals. We

[3:29:18] have eight caging in there for eight puppies at the moment. There's uh always

[3:29:24] a possibility of putting puppies in kennel space. that's meant for adult

[3:29:29] dogs and that would be used for any additional uh needs that might that

[3:29:35] might be faced right now. But I'm going to let Kim carry on with that. We can

[3:29:39] describe further. In our current facility, we have eight quarantine

[3:29:43] kennels. Um they're frequently quite full and we do have um quarantine

[3:29:49] puppies also that are we usually house in the puppy room. So, it's a little it

[3:29:55] allows for a little bit of growth compared to what we have now, but it

[3:29:59] definitely is a need as far as the amount of quarantine kennels.

[3:30:06] Okay, Assembly Member Crass. Uh, thank you. Um, you know, I want to

[3:30:11] thank the gentleman with Indigo Hammond and Miss Van Arsdale. uh you guys have

[3:30:16] done a tremendous job developing uh a building that seems to be uh very close

[3:30:21] to exact fit at this point, 65% close uh to the bureau's animal control mission.

[3:30:27] Um I guess you know this is an appropriate forum to ask this is kind of

[3:30:30] an uncomfortable question. Uh, and so it's for the administration and maybe

[3:30:35] Miss Gardner, maybe the whole animal control

[3:30:37] commission. Is has there been any thought to looking at the returning to

[3:30:43] the original animal control mission of rabies and

[3:30:47] euthanasia? And what would be sort of the practical and moral implications? I

[3:30:53] guess practical for the administration and looking to the animal control

[3:30:56] commission, what are the ethical considerations of changing the mission?

[3:31:01] Um, it strikes me that that is the the only real cost savings of any substance

[3:31:07] to be found here is if we change what we're doing as animal control. These

[3:31:12] fine folks here have developed a system that meets our needs uh quite well. Uh

[3:31:17] seems to have been tailored to us uh like a fine suit. Um so the only thing I

[3:31:23] can think of is if we change the shape of ourselves. uh and has that been

[3:31:28] considered I guess to the administration and what might some of the uh

[3:31:32] implications of that be to the members of the commission?

[3:31:37] Um thank you Mr. Crass. In the uh in the four and a half year out no we

[3:31:44] have not looked at what that would look like for from our perspective. I believe

[3:31:48] that um we're not providing an entire suite of surgeries. We're not offering

[3:31:54] entire um full spectrum of of services out

[3:31:58] there. So, I I don't think we're providing a lot in this community. We

[3:32:02] have a a decent private sector amount of um

[3:32:09] uh veterinarian opportunities out there and offices uh from North Pole all the

[3:32:14] way through Fairbanks. Um but there are shortcomings out there and if we wanted

[3:32:18] to stop providing a lot of these services, stop providing the

[3:32:24] um the on-site uh spay and neuters as we are are offering adoption are problems

[3:32:30] would grow. If you're going to have to do that through

[3:32:33] the private sector, those costs would increase if anybody's had to take care

[3:32:38] of dogs to the after after hours animal shelter, drop offs, things like that.

[3:32:42] Those costs are astronomical for many people which would result in, you know,

[3:32:45] a lot more concerns and a lot more problems out there. So um in terms of a

[3:32:49] community health concern, in terms of a a community capacity and a compassion

[3:32:53] compassion capacity, um we have not looked at that. I that as I believe you

[3:32:58] are correct, if we the space and ways we would cut down on these costs without

[3:33:03] providing a a well structured shelter that we won't need to be having these

[3:33:06] conversations for another 50 years, what we do um is what we would need to to cut

[3:33:11] down on. And um that is something that, you know, we could look at and and a

[3:33:15] community might want to do. But if we want to be a growing community that

[3:33:18] provides a healthy um place for people and animals of all types, I think what

[3:33:24] we're doing would be the the minimum that we should be doing right now.

[3:33:31] I I I would like to say a little Chair Gardner, I've been on the commission for

[3:33:35] about 20 years. There are several people here been on the commission longer and I

[3:33:40] can't recall anyone ever uh complaining that the shelter was

[3:33:46] providing too many services and I think the community people that we hear from

[3:33:52] they want more. I mean it's it you know the in the industry and the societal

[3:33:58] approach to companion animals has changed a lot in the last 20

[3:34:03] years. I know working in animal rescue and uh that spayneuter is

[3:34:10] essential. You can't adopt your way out of having too many animals. And you

[3:34:16] know, we thoroughly support the animal shelter being able to do spayneuters

[3:34:21] right there. Gets them out of the shelter so much faster. And we know for

[3:34:26] sure that it happens. I mean, there have been times in the past where, you know,

[3:34:31] you would give them a voucher and they would take the the adopted animal to the

[3:34:36] a vet of their own and and I don't know, get a $100 off or

[3:34:42] something. It just didn't happen a lot. People that are going to get their

[3:34:46] animals spayed or neutered, they did it. And the people that weren't, you know,

[3:34:50] it didn't matter what you offered them, it needs to be done ahead of

[3:34:55] adoption. And I I mean we really support that

[3:35:00] uh what they have for surgery right now is really a difficult situation and

[3:35:07] needs to be changed. Yes, I agree with Commissioner Gardner.

[3:35:13] Um, I volunteer at a local spay and neuter clinic and there's uh, even with

[3:35:17] the shelter doing spay and neuters and every vet clinic in town doing spay and

[3:35:21] neuters, there's months long waiting lists to get

[3:35:25] animals spayed or neutered at the clinics I volunteer at and the other

[3:35:29] people that are involved in those clinics do other spay and neuter clinics

[3:35:33] all over the state. And I think if you removed

[3:35:36] um the the option for the shelter to spay and neuter, it would be a a

[3:35:41] detriment to our community. And I think that everything that I've heard from the

[3:35:45] community that I've talked about, I talked to the community a lot about the

[3:35:48] animal control and the new shelter. And people don't want less. Like

[3:35:53] Commissioner Gardner said, they want they want more. In this new facility,

[3:35:57] there's a community room. Maybe there could be classes for people to learn

[3:36:00] responsible pet care. There's a lot of opportunity in a new

[3:36:05] shelter for our community to to grow and have healthier relationships with pets

[3:36:08] and the animals that live here. Um, just want to make sure that for $33 million

[3:36:13] we get the absolute best designed new shelter that we can. I

[3:36:18] don't know if any of the commission members don't want us to be getting a

[3:36:22] new shelter. We are all in in agreement with animal control that the way that

[3:36:28] they're working and operating currently is completely unacceptable.

[3:36:32] Thanks, Mr. Crass. You still have the floor if you have anything further. No,

[3:36:36] thank you. I I'd welcome if any other commissioners have input on that. This

[3:36:41] is a very rare time for us get to interface directly like this. Um

[3:36:45] Sherman, um I second and third what they say there. We ask these hard questions

[3:36:54] because we've paid a lot of attention to design. We've talked to lots of

[3:36:58] different vets in town. People come up to us and they say, "Does this mean this

[3:37:03] this? Do we need this? This?" I said, "You need to look at it and talk to it.

[3:37:07] I can tell you what I think, but I don't I'm not an engineer and I'm not an

[3:37:11] architect, but like Cass said, we I I agree with the things that they need

[3:37:17] totally. And but we want to make sure that it's as good as it can be for the

[3:37:23] northern climate that it does last 50 years that there's enough flexibility in

[3:37:28] systems like I forgot to ask about is there an on-site vacuum setup already in

[3:37:34] there because and having these things that if if it's already set up with a

[3:37:38] great egg and we can dehumidify and all that stuff then we can add on as needed

[3:37:43] or as not. It isn't that we don't want it. We all desperately see what it

[3:37:47] needs. We know what goes on with drop off camels. We understand the whole

[3:37:52] kurfuffle with that and we deal and rescue. So, we want it, but we want what

[3:37:57] is going to be optimum for the borrow, for the public, and for the animals.

[3:38:05] Uh, Mr. Swan, did you also have something to add?

[3:38:11] Yes, I do. And and I'll be very brief. Um, Assembly Person Crafts, I believe

[3:38:17] that the Assembly person who proposed a strict public safety model um, such as

[3:38:23] you uh, mentioned would be committing political suicide in this

[3:38:29] burrow. All right, there we go. Okay. Um, so on my

[3:38:35] list I have Haney, Rooney, and Swan. If if Mr. Swan uh, you still wanted to be

[3:38:41] in the queue or if you just wanted to respond to Mr. CR I will ask members of

[3:38:45] the body now to wrap up your comments. So if anybody has Yes. Thank you. Okay.

[3:38:50] Thank you, Miss Haney. Um nothing more from you this evening then. And if

[3:38:55] there's anybody else um who wants to speak, I just ask that uh we wrap up our

[3:39:00] comments and questions. Uh so Miss Rudy, thank you. Thank you. I'll be quick.

[3:39:05] It's two parts, but they're the same thing. Um I have only been on the comm.

[3:39:10] It's been less than a year that I've been involved at all. And so this may

[3:39:12] have been this is definitely before my time. Was there a third party review of

[3:39:17] the design ordered at some point that just hasn't happened? And

[3:39:23] why? Going to direct that to the administration.

[3:39:30] Um so in terms of the third party review, um no we have not done a

[3:39:35] specific design of it. We have the experts who are following the

[3:39:38] credentials for the ASV who have uh national renowned work um and who have

[3:39:43] put in the work and and the understanding and the design to make it

[3:39:47] um work with the animal shelter uh standards across the country. We as I

[3:39:51] said before we worked with um uh Dr. Kate Hurley um who wrote the ASV

[3:39:57] standards and was in or started uh working on those and she was in

[3:40:01] influential in these designs. Um and then we had the experts here locally to

[3:40:06] make sure that it's good for Fairbanks. Um there are

[3:40:13] um qu if you brought in a a we have did not one of the reasons we didn't do a

[3:40:19] modified um small third party review was there were concerns about um if there'd

[3:40:24] be a competitive bias or something like that in the process. But um we have

[3:40:29] faith in in the experts as there their credentials stand up the ASV standards

[3:40:33] stand up um and the questions in here given the the opportunity for the public

[3:40:37] tomorrow also to weigh in once again uh would stand up on their on their own

[3:40:41] merits. Thank you. And then the second part um would

[3:40:45] be is there room in a $33 million budget for something that would cost less than

[3:40:51] half a percent of that budget which was around what I've heard a third party

[3:40:55] review would cost and are the parties involved willing to allow for a third

[3:41:00] party review um from a place like learned design who's leading in the

[3:41:04] nation with this sort of thing just to do a design review on what we have so

[3:41:08] far at 65 or at 95 not to take the project from Indigo at all because

[3:41:12] they've done all of this work and it's amazing work. But again, for $33

[3:41:17] million, the community is not going to get behind

[3:41:22] this if it's not the it should be the best that it can be. And anybody that

[3:41:28] looks at it should that that third party review should say that there's

[3:41:32] absolutely nothing to change if we're going to spend $33 million on a project

[3:41:36] like this. I just think that there there should be room for for somebody else to

[3:41:41] to weigh in. And so we get the best thing we can for the community at that

[3:41:45] price. Thank you, Mr. Swan. Commissioner Swan, do you have

[3:41:51] any uh did you still want to be in the queue or are you No, I have nothing

[3:41:56] more. Okay, great. Uh Commissioner

[3:42:01] Gardner, I think your microphone needs to come on. Yes, thank

[3:42:07] um the the correct shelter medicine um guidelines been mentioned several times

[3:42:15] tonight and they are guidelines. They're not code. They're not standard and they

[3:42:21] don't operate shelters. They're veterinarians that

[3:42:26] work with shelters, but they don't operate any shelters themselves. uh just

[3:42:31] as just so you understand where they're coming from. You know, they're that uh

[3:42:36] using them as a as a consultant doesn't negate the need to understand the local

[3:42:43] issues. Um and I guess my second question is um

[3:42:49] if the animal control commission still has questions, how should we about the

[3:42:54] design for Indigo or Betty'sworth or public works? Uh what should we do with

[3:42:59] those questions? Thank you. Um I I believe that the

[3:43:04] questions should be directed to the administration. Is that correct? Um yes.

[3:43:08] And of course tomorrow there's the open house where you'll have an opportunity

[3:43:11] to talk to this uh design team one-on-one as well as

[3:43:15] um you can email them through us and we'd be happy to work on it. I'm going

[3:43:19] to stop you right there. Just remember OMA for the assembly and the commission.

[3:43:24] No more than three commissioners from the animal control commission can attend

[3:43:28] that open house and no more than three assembly members can attend that open

[3:43:32] house tomorrow night because of first come first serve on that basis but

[3:43:37] our email is always open. That answer your question. So direct

[3:43:42] them to the mayor's office. Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. Uh Miss Wilson

[3:43:48] and closing comments. Um, first of all, first of all, just so you understand, if

[3:43:54] somebody leaves, somebody can go in. Yeah. So, you just might have to wait,

[3:43:58] right, till somebody leaves. I guess a question to the administration. I know

[3:44:02] there's a different schedule for um boards to be able to meet, but would it

[3:44:06] be possible for the animal control commission to be able to maybe have a

[3:44:11] special meeting especially just on this issue with all this additional

[3:44:14] information so they would have an opportunity maybe to put something

[3:44:18] legally because it would be noticed um together of their concerns or concerns

[3:44:23] that have been alleviated because I know that would be helpful to me because you

[3:44:26] guys know so much more than I do and I agree with you. I wish they would do the

[3:44:31] other $10,000 to make sure everything is done,

[3:44:35] but more than that, I think having that opportunity after taking all this in,

[3:44:40] being able to come up with something would I know definitely would be

[3:44:42] helpful, I think, to to myself, if not other members here. Madame Clerk, would

[3:44:47] you be able to weigh in on that? The main issue if it if it's something

[3:44:52] that needs to happen within this next month, we just don't have any capacity

[3:44:57] in the chambers at all. we are pretty much booked up with what's going on in

[3:45:01] April and May.

[3:45:06] With that said, it's always a prerogative of the commission to with

[3:45:10] through the chair to work with the clerk's office and on a time that would

[3:45:14] make sense for review for a special meeting. Okay. Thank you. Because yes,

[3:45:19] we the commission this is the first we've seen

[3:45:22] of these plans as well. So, anything further, Miss Wilson? No, thank

[3:45:28] you. Thank you. Anyone else? Any final closing comments, questions, discussion?

[3:45:34] Can I just point out one thing? I'm sorry. Um, I will give uh an opportunity

[3:45:39] for the project team to have any further comments and so if uh if you'd like to

[3:45:43] do that and closing comments, I'll invite you over to a microphone and you

[3:45:47] can do that right now. I'm sorry, Mr. Crest. Um and and u Mayor Hopkins from

[3:45:54] your administration or from the project team, are there any final comments

[3:45:59] um that you would like to offer? Um just quickly, I want to thank the commission

[3:46:03] for all the work and the care you guys have done. Many of you been on these

[3:46:06] commissions for many, many decades. Um so thank you for always um caring about

[3:46:11] the care of our animals across the board and how they interact with our

[3:46:14] community. So thank you all and for coming here today and having the best

[3:46:17] questions. um you know more than than all of us on this side of the panel for

[3:46:22] that matter. Um and thank you to the design team for coming up here and I

[3:46:25] look forward to seeing you all again tomorrow for another round as we work to

[3:46:29] make sure um the people of of this community understand the different

[3:46:34] aspects of the project and feel a more comfortable level for why things are the

[3:46:37] way they are because we have wonderful experts here who um put in a lot of work

[3:46:41] on it and understand why we're doing the things that we are. Thank you.

[3:46:45] Dr. Pento, did you have something to add? Just just a small thing just in um

[3:46:49] response to the ASV is not the law. It's not the law, but it is a baseline

[3:46:55] standard of care and standard of care is how they judge. For example, if I don't

[3:47:00] meet standard of care, I'm not qualified to keep my veterinary license. So, if we

[3:47:04] don't meet standard of care in the shelter, then we're really not doing it

[3:47:08] right. Thank you for that. Uh Miss Pamale,

[3:47:14] sorry. Sorry. I just want to thank my team and thank you for this opportunity

[3:47:19] tonight. Um our goal is always that there are no surprises in our projects

[3:47:24] that what you see when it's constructed is exactly what you envisioned and what

[3:47:28] your goals were for the project. So that's why um we try to follow a process

[3:47:33] following the burough's guidelines. So I wanted to thank my team here including

[3:47:37] Dr. Pinto and Sandy and Kimberly because they are a valued member of this design

[3:47:42] team and along with Leslie and Marco and public works have made this a pleasure

[3:47:46] to work with and we do look forward to tomorrow and answering all your

[3:47:50] questions and I have my list of ones that I couldn't answer myself but we

[3:47:53] will get that back through our channel to make sure um there's no surprises and

[3:47:57] we're part of a successful project. Thanks. Thank you. Um, can you remind us

[3:48:03] when what the um time is of the the meeting tomorrow and where? 5:30 at

[3:48:09] Carlson Center Prow room. Okay. So, the presentation starts at 5:30. We'll be

[3:48:15] there early and I'm sure we'll be there late. The paper says Okay, great. And on

[3:48:20] behalf of the assembly, uh, thank you so much to the animal commission for for

[3:48:25] being here this evening and for your uh, thoughtful questions. and um what a what

[3:48:30] a neat experience we had today. So really appreciated uh the opportunity to

[3:48:34] have this session with you all. Thank you. Thank you. And at 9:08 the special

[3:48:41] uh joint work session of the Burough Assembly and Animal Control Commission

[3:48:44] is adjourned.

Joint Work Session with the Animal Control Commission March 20, 2025

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