[0:02] I know. Good evening, Lance. Thank you. Are we ready to start it? Yes, sir. All right, I'd like to cover or the special city council meeting of August 12, 2024, 6 o'clock p.m. Madam Secretary, we have a quorum. Yes, Mayor, we do. Next, please. Item 2, invocation given by councilmember Lance magazine, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance to the American and Texas flags. Please stand.

[0:31] Father in heaven, we just give you praise for the day. Father, we

[0:34] We thank you for your goodness and your faithfulness to us.

[0:37] Or as we do business for the city, I just ask that you would give each one of us wisdom,

[0:41] clarity of thought, critical thinking.

[0:43] And Father, we just give you thanks for it.

[0:45] Father, we also pray for our first responders.

[0:48] We ask that you would be with them, that you would put your hand in protection over them as they patrol our city tonight.

[0:53] And that they watch out for every citizen in the city of fate.

[0:57] We thank you, Father, for our city staff, for the tireless work that they do continually.

[1:00] We just ask that you would bless them, that you would bless the works of their hand, Father God, for everything that we do for our citizens.

[1:08] And this we ask the name of your son, Jesus. Amen.

[1:37] Thank you. Next, please.

[1:39] Agenda item 3a, water and wastewater rate study presentation.

[1:45] All right.

[1:45] You're your favorite topic, right?

[2:19] Excellent.

[2:20] Howdy mayor, members of council, math, you get it with new gen strategies and solution.

[2:24] Pleasure to be back in front of you.

[2:26] Go through this presentation pretty quickly.

[2:29] Looks like we're in PDFs.

[2:31] I'll do a little scrolling.

[2:34] How just fine.

[2:35] Okay.

[2:36] So, as usual, right, we come back in and we look at your rates every year.

[2:41] First, we want to know that it's going to pay the bills, right?

[2:44] So we look at financial adequately, we have a few tests for that.

[2:48] We make sure that your revenues meet your expenses or exceed them to the extent you want

[2:52] to fund capital or set aside money.

[2:55] And then lastly, you have to hit debt service coverage target and have some days cash on

[2:59] hand.

[3:00] So we don't operate on a zero balance.

[3:03] So those are sort of our key metrics.

[3:06] The key drivers, the reason we look at this over here, you do have rising wholesale cost.

[3:11] Your capital improvement needs are steady, but you've been planning for that and doing

[3:14] a good job of setting cash aside to help fund part of these needs.

[3:18] Lastly, something that I haven't said that often to this council is that growth has been very

[3:24] rapid and you've been very fortunate not to change rates for years on your water side.

[3:30] waste water rates changed two years back about $4 on the minimum bill but otherwise you haven't changed rates in some time

[3:38] Your growth has really supported that your growth is starting to decline and so it may be that future rate increases are needed

[3:45] So that's the story those are the big points and we'll talk through each of those

[3:51] All right, so your cost increases this is a bit dated. I believe the city may receive the letter

[3:56] altering this unit rate from North Texas Missile Water District by five cents at

[4:00] about a billion gallons, that's about $50,000 of delta or difference to your total

[4:05] expense. That said, it is about a 5% increase on the overall cost in your unit

[4:12] rate. You do have an expected decrease in your wastewater bill from North

[4:17] Texas Missile Water District primarily due to the shared systems with Royce City

[4:21] where their usage or consumption for flow is increasing and yours is moderately growing.

[4:28] They're taking a higher percentage, right?

[4:30] You will have some other increases for those systems though because they have some major

[4:33] capital investments to make it.

[4:36] Any questions on this?

[4:40] Nope.

[4:41] Thank you.

[4:41] Fantastic.

[4:42] So we are using the Strategic Financial Plans as published on the North Texas Municipal Water

[4:47] District's website to forecast their cost.

[4:49] First, as you may know, they change their rates near term differently than they do in the long term.

[4:55] So they won't revisit the strategic financial plan until next year, but we do show a substantial increase over time is going to be needed to continue with your water purchases at the district.

[5:06] So did the customer rate go up or all the members and customer rate go up?

[5:11] All the rates went up.

[5:12] Okay, everybody.

[5:13] Equally?

[5:14] Equally no, because you have a nickel difference.

[5:17] I know.

[5:18] Like I thought, we are 2.5 cents different now being cussed from member senate.

[5:22] Effectively, we're about 2 percent different.

[5:24] Okay, 2 percent.

[5:25] Okay.

[5:25] As a percentage.

[5:26] Thank you.

[5:27] Absolutely.

[5:28] Any other questions?

[5:30] Right.

[5:30] Thank you.

[5:31] Sure.

[5:33] And so again, just to point out the obvious, going from $4 million to $7 million in 10 years

[5:36] is going to have a big need if the new rooftops and the new consumption aren't here to help support it.

[5:42] and or commercial, the new users, that is.

[5:47] Then we do have your wastewater contract expenses.

[5:49] I did want to show you what that looks like.

[5:51] I mentioned that in 25 you had actually a slight reduction

[5:53] to take the win, but in the very near term,

[5:55] they're going to have some increases.

[5:57] Starting off with Sabine Creek.

[5:59] They're going to have some major investment in 26.

[6:02] Finishing some construction, I think in 27.

[6:04] And then the budget Greek interceptor,

[6:07] a parallel interceptor project has about 20 million dollars

[6:11] of capital improvement requirements in fiscal 28, so you'll see that since you're sharing

[6:16] that burden with Roy City, you have a pretty large jump again in fiscal 2028. And this

[6:24] is your collective wastewater charge is not system specific from the district. So that's

[6:30] on the horizon. Good to keep our eyes open, know what's coming. In the near term, you have

[6:34] your own capital improvement funding. We do show that you have water funding of about $6.5

[6:39] million dollars and a little less than half a million for wastewater in the coming fiscal year.

[6:43] You have a variety of funding sources so that's not all cash capital from operations which is

[6:49] good news. And then you'll see you do have a plan though it's moderate under half a million next

[6:55] year for some capital about two million in a year following etc. So those are the items that are

[7:00] baked into our expenses that we put into our forecast which is giving us a vision of what your rates

[7:06] may need to be to fund the future.

[7:11] Lastly, for the big topics, your growth,

[7:14] you've been growing more than we thought,

[7:16] the dotted lines represent where we thought you would be.

[7:18] And so, again, without the increases,

[7:21] this growth really has saved the rates

[7:24] and the revenue sufficiency of baits, water,

[7:27] and wastewater utility.

[7:29] We do show at the end you see that taper off.

[7:31] And so we have about 100 units of growth in fiscal 29.

[7:34] So you start to see that growth wane in year five.

[7:43] All right, we do want to show you.

[7:44] We do look at the detailed record from the utility building system.

[7:47] This is the seasonality reflected in your road.

[7:51] You'll see that in the winter months, you do have a winter average, right?

[7:54] And so we're going to take the December, January and February bill.

[7:58] That's the 5.1, 1, 1, 5, 0, 6, and 4, 8, 5, and determine the winter average

[8:03] or the assumed flow for the wastewater bills.

[8:06] But you see that you have some very high peaking in, like every other community, in the summer, because we're watering the lawns.

[8:18] Alright, a lot of numbers on this screen. The only thing I want you to queue into is with the rate increases that we projected.

[8:25] And I guess I should say there's no rate increase projected in fiscal 25. I should have led with that.

[8:31] But in the coming years, 26 through 29, we're anticipating a need of about 7% on water and waste.

[8:37] If we do so and we execute the expense plan that we have, you'll see that we work our

[8:43] days operating reserve from about 253 in fiscal 25, down to 128, which is on the cusp of

[8:51] your target of 120.

[8:53] So we have a prudent plan to raise rates and spend on our cash, not all in one fail swoop,

[8:58] but it does show in the five year plan getting closer to our target so that we're not just

[9:03] pooling cash in our operating fund.

[9:06] So, again, underlying no rate increase in 25, 7% increases on water and wastewater for

[9:15] fiscal year's 26 through 29.

[9:19] Yes, sir.

[9:21] So, and we're not recut, if I remember your chart correctly, I think I asked you this every

[9:25] year, probably.

[9:26] Yes, sir.

[9:27] So, we're not recovering 27 all the expenses of the water, right?

[9:31] Right.

[9:32] There's a planned under recovery, which is a use of bath.

[9:34] So we're going to draw down the day's operating reserves?

[9:37] Yes.

[9:39] That's the plan.

[9:41] We aren't setting rates for that, of course, this evening or in this fiscal year.

[9:44] But if we follow this plan to a T, that's what you'd experience.

[9:52] All right, thanks for the thinking about that for a minute.

[9:54] It's okay.

[9:54] I have a question.

[9:56] So we're doing no rate increase this year and 7% next year.

[10:01] It would be possible to have a rate increase, a small rate increase this year and

[10:05] a less a rate increase next year.

[10:07] I mean, 7% pretty large jump in one water bill.

[10:13] Yes, or absolutely, one could raise rates this year.

[10:15] I think there was a desire to hold the line and see how-

[10:20] Yeah, sorry, we have faces before it hasn't happened.

[10:25] Yeah, I would wait and then we can smooth it out long, we could do that if these parameters hold true.

[10:31] I mean, last time we had to have a discussion about four or five years ago where we thought we're going to raise rates and we never end up doing it.

[10:36] Right?

[10:37] Last time in 23 we thought we'd have an every other year rate increase and going into

[10:40] a cadence like that we knew it was coming, but they haven't materialized, again, kind

[10:44] of pointing back to cost controls by your staff and the fortuitous growth that's overcome

[10:50] your increased cost.

[10:51] And then the next year we do hit phase 7 then we can make choices around 2, 3, 4, whatever

[10:56] we want to do and spread it out a little bit, right?

[10:58] Right.

[10:59] And then in full disclosure it's my best, I'm sorry, I go ahead, sir.

[11:03] I'll go after you.

[11:04] Okay.

[11:04] Okay, very simply, I will be as conservative as I can,

[11:08] making your expenses as high as I can make them within a reason.

[11:11] And I'm going to make sure your revenue is conservatively low.

[11:14] And so I'd rather staff complain about making too much than we miss the mark.

[11:17] And so, not only do you have the externalities like the district,

[11:21] the new contract, the volumes, et cetera.

[11:24] You have my conservative projections that may make next year less than seven.

[11:28] Okay, because I heard you say something about we definitely are going to have some increases

[11:34] is because of equipment or capital expenditure.

[11:38] So those are definitely coming.

[11:40] Yes, sir.

[11:41] OK, it's expected.

[11:43] Yeah, they're in the district's capital improvement plan.

[11:47] So we still have to get into a lot of the mechanics of how

[11:50] those get executed and how much and whose share is what

[11:53] with Roy City.

[11:55] But the other thing we're thinking of is we, of course,

[11:58] we like to put off rate increase.

[12:01] We don't want to run the ship we're sure into the ground, but we want to make sure that we're watching that we're just not getting ahead of it.

[12:11] We are going to watch for North Texas and what they're going to do with the water rates with the customer cities.

[12:17] So we're part of the customer cities coalition.

[12:18] We've been doing that for several years and we think we're getting to a compromise with the district and those negotiations are starting to conclude we're hoping.

[12:27] and so we'll know with greater detail what the impact that could be, is generally going to be worse?

[12:35] We know that we're getting the deal right now.

[12:36] It's not going to be 2% the district at 1.1 at a 10% differential between what the customer city's paid and what the member city's pay.

[12:46] And that's getting negotiated down to where close in that gap.

[12:49] So we're hoping that we get to take a look at that.

[12:53] We'll see, Matthew's very conservative, which is great, we like that.

[12:57] We're always kind of watching to see, can we plug like this year?

[13:01] We talked about earlier.

[13:02] Can we plug a little bit of the hole that we saw for this year with water impact fees due to pump station three and so forth?

[13:09] And some of the debt that we've taken on the answer of absolutely yes, totally, it's available.

[13:14] And is that debt payment that transfer from water impact fee into the utility fund?

[13:20] Is that sustainable over time?

[13:21] and we think yes, yes it is.

[13:23] As long as we don't get like zero,

[13:26] absolutely nothing.

[13:27] So if residential slows down, that's okay.

[13:29] If commercial slows way down

[13:31] and residential slows way down together,

[13:33] then we'll have no impact fees coming in.

[13:35] Then there is some exposure.

[13:38] So there's always some risk to that.

[13:41] But we think the longer we can put off a rating increase,

[13:44] also this theory is, as long as we're not pushing that

[13:48] that towards a huge, we have more customers

[13:51] numbers to spread that cost to.

[13:54] And we have more business, so we're getting all these businesses.

[13:57] We'll see the sales tax chart coming up, where we can see the sales tax coming up like this.

[14:01] So as you get more businesses, you get some of those high flow customers.

[14:07] You go on.

[14:08] Thank you.

[14:08] Excellent.

[14:09] Okay.

[14:09] The other thing I'll point out on observation between 25 and 26, you'll see your thing operating reserve balance.

[14:15] bottom. You're ending this year plan 2 at 8.05. Next year 8.1, very modest growth

[14:22] right, $68,000 more. But you'll see your days operating or down substantially

[14:27] because you're cost to operator going up. So we're losing footing even with the

[14:30] same dollars against the days operating time. So some things are we're keeping an

[14:36] eye on, but I think you're okay with no rate increase in this current fiscal

[14:39] here. Here are those bill impacts if we were to follow plan and have seven percent per year.

[14:45] You'll see the bill going up from the 107-17 currently up to 140-48 by the end of the five year plan.

[14:54] This is a customer with 5,000 gallons of usage.

[15:00] Except I'll leave my phone on. Another cousin on all night. More like your average user currently paying 125, we'll be at 163 and 85% at the end of.

[15:13] Okay. I know you can all do 7% math. The other good thing about this, your current and proposed are the same. And so this chart is your comparison of current rates to the current rate of the comparative group in the region. Of course these are their current rates, their relative standing position will change when they have a rate increase that they may be in.

[15:31] anticipating this year.

[15:34] So this is again $5,000 down.

[15:35] Can I ask you a question?

[15:37] Can I ask a question?

[15:39] Do you anticipate rate increases for these other cities?

[15:43] Are they sort of thing, belief?

[15:44] I was, yes or down the road, and I met virtually

[15:47] with the other one between those two meetings.

[15:48] So I anticipate rate increases for several of these customers.

[15:53] And member cities as well.

[15:58] Yes, sir.

[16:01] Oh, yeah, we'll do.

[16:02] Yeah, so this is the average residential user, closer to the middle of the pack here, on

[16:08] your average consumption with 7,100 gallons of water consumption and 40 at 50 waste water

[16:14] as a winter average, you'll see some like Wiley actually have a fixed charge, so they're

[16:19] not going to fluctuate as much others that had a winter average we use like for like and

[16:25] charge the same winter average there as we would here.

[16:28] and then we do have the member cities to note it as we've had for years with the little red

[16:34] coloration to the left. So you can see those that are already getting a member rate in their

[16:39] customer rates on this chart. They're not all below you.

[16:47] So recommendations again,

[16:49] I've already kind of spoiled it and said no rate increase is anticipated or suggested this year,

[16:54] but we do want to keep an eye on it, continue monitoring that capital plan, and then of course updating

[16:59] as we get more information on those other items.

[17:03] Any questions?

[17:04] I do.

[17:05] On the capital expenditures, did you take into account the 14 million gallon sewer plant increase?

[17:16] Yes sir, that's the parkour creek.

[17:19] Sabine.

[17:20] Sabine, that was coming up in 26.

[17:22] I'm not sure when it's coming up.

[17:25] I don't think that one's, I don't think that one's a donlin book yet.

[17:28] It's about in the beyond the five year horizon.

[17:31] It is, yes, beyond the five year.

[17:34] Okay.

[17:35] I didn't see that one by name.

[17:36] I don't recall it by name in the strategic financial plan.

[17:39] But if it's beyond our five year,

[17:41] we've put in a program that yet.

[17:43] Yeah, we just did what a three to seven and then,

[17:45] they want to go to 14.

[17:47] 14, right, we've found,

[17:48] I think no Texas has submitted the permit on our behalf

[17:51] between for Roy City and Fates or in the permit application

[17:56] process to get a 13 or 14 MGD plan.

[18:00] So if that comes through earlier, then we should expect a higher rate increase in the

[18:06] country at the outlying years.

[18:08] Potentially, yes, sir.

[18:09] So I did use their 10-year forecast.

[18:11] And so as of April this year, they had envisioned that in the next 10 years.

[18:14] It would have been on this chart, which is your relative total cost for wastewater.

[18:19] Though I wouldn't have put it in your five-year rate horizon.

[18:23] Yes, sir.

[18:23] Mark any questions?

[18:25] I was just going to say it's a little bit ironic because we actually have on our city website that we won't be able to conserve water.

[18:31] But yet, we want we want more customer base to the lower the rates.

[18:38] All

[18:41] right, thank you so much.

[18:42] All right, just a quick agenda, just one real quick.

[18:45] So we're going to move with the council's 5B to the first of the actual section 6, any objection to the council?

[18:58] We'll just have to vote on that separately tonight.

[19:00] All right.

[19:01] Thank you very much.

[19:01] Next, please.

[19:03] Item 4, public comment.

[19:05] And I've received two requests to address the council, first being from Randy Long, address 2263, Bryant Lane wishes to speak on a topic not on the agenda

[19:14] That's to say thank you.

[19:16] Hey, welcome to anything.

[19:16] Thank you for coming.

[19:18] Yeah, Randy Long, 2263 Bryant Lane.

[19:23] And I happen to be out of town last week

[19:26] on a two-week vacation for the council meeting,

[19:29] and I missed it.

[19:30] But I wanted to come and express my thanks and gratitude

[19:33] to the four council members who stood up

[19:36] and stood tall with compassion, sensitivity, and graciousness

[19:40] devote to partially restore a homestead exemption.

[19:44] one that should never have been callously taken away and with the wrong spirit in the

[19:49] first place. It is a partial restoration but I am optimistic that next year is another

[19:55] new year with lots of potential to gain full and rightful restoration. It may not seem

[20:01] like a big deal to those of you who are still on a payroll and subject to pay raises, bonuses

[20:07] and profit sharing, but to those on fixed incomes and or disabled, every penny in this

[20:13] harsh economy makes a difference. Just for example, if you take $11,000, it doesn't seem

[20:20] like much just to drop in the proverbial bucket. But $11,000 here and $11,000 there, and pretty

[20:28] soon you have some pretty serious money. In addition, any reduction always sends a clear

[20:34] message of stewardship, frugality, and sensitivity to where that 11,000 comes from.

[20:39] Again, thank you, it is so nice to see some welcome and much needed advocacy, especially for a group much in need of it.

[20:49] Thank you, Randy, appreciate it, next please.

[20:51] Next is Karen Kaiser, address 1093 North Churchill wishes to speak on agenda item 5B.

[21:02] I'm sorry, Karen Kaiser, 1093 North Church Hill Drive.

[21:08] My apologies for touching on a consent agenda item, because I'm thrilled that you

[21:18] approved it just as you did.

[21:19] I think it's an exact right number.

[21:23] And what should be, but there was something said,

[21:28] But in last meeting that I have been grappling with and thinking I will make sense of it because I am mathematical,

[21:35] but I can't.

[21:37] And I'm hoping you could explain it, because I've also seen it said in other venues.

[21:45] But it was said from the day is 318 million in taxable value is shifted to the rest of

[21:54] with the over 65 frees, I believe, and then further said that if it had been the 75,000,

[22:07] it could be 1 billion in taxable value, and I mean there's 921 properties, give or take,

[22:15] and working off of the average that I believe it was, the City Manager said 365,000.

[22:22] I can't in any way understand how 318 million of valuation is not being taxed because I am over 65.

[22:37] We still pay tax, we just pay the tax we paid in 2023, so did we instead mean it's the incremental difference each year?

[22:50] No, I'll explain to you afterwards.

[22:53] Okay, that was my question, it's driving me nuts.

[22:56] Thank you, you're welcome, thank you so much.

[22:57] Next, please.

[22:58] Next, will be item five consent agenda, which just includes approval of minutes.

[23:04] Just one item, any question?

[23:05] I'll take a motion on the, I'm the minutes, please.

[23:08] I'll make a motion, we accept the consent agenda.

[23:10] I have a motion out of second, second.

[23:14] I think it's starting voting.

[23:15] The matter is yes, I've stayed, but no, watch the months, people's not.

[23:20] Including myself, like traffic lights, isn't it?

[23:26] That's Allen's not here.

[23:27] Can we take Allen off the list, please?

[23:30] His name will still, he will not be removed from that because there's a total of members.

[23:34] All right, so motion passes 6 is 0.

[23:36] Thank you, okay, it's going to be interesting to get used to.

[23:40] It's going to be interesting.

[23:42] All right, next please.

[23:43] Next is agenda item 5B.

[23:45] We consider approval of ordinance number O2024-039,

[23:50] increasing the over 65 property tax, residential homestead exemption from 25,000 to 50,000.

[23:58] All right, so I'll take a motion, a second and any discussion, and we can vote.

[24:02] I have a motion, please.

[24:05] A motion that we pass ordinance number 0-204-039.

[24:12] 9.

[24:13] Second.

[24:14] I second.

[24:15] All right.

[24:15] Any more any more discussion?

[24:17] If not, please vote.

[24:18] I guess I'm voting, I guess.

[24:27] Motion passes 42 with Councilman Megasin and Councilman Kelly voting.

[24:30] No.

[24:31] Next, please.

[24:35] Next is agenda item 6A public hearing on proposed budget for the fiscal year beginning October 1, 2024, and ending September 30th, 2025.

[24:44] So this is straight up public hearing, right, Victor?

[24:47] Correct.

[24:48] No action, just public hearing.

[24:49] All right, I'll open the public hearing of a 626.

[24:52] Anyone who's speaking for against the proposed budget, please come forward.

[24:58] Seeing none, I will close the public hearing of 626.

[25:03] Next, please.

[25:05] agenda item 6B, discuss, consider and take any necessary action regarding the proposed fiscal year 2024, 2025 budget.

[25:13] All right, Michael.

[25:15] Yes sir, I have a short presentation edited

[25:21] for it, it looks like a super short.

[25:31] I have, oh Raju, I have control, Raju,

[25:36] oh are you, all right we got it, go ahead.

[25:49] It's a PDF that's

[25:54] not it, okay maybe I should, Raju you take control, there should be a

[26:04] the PowerPoint in here.

[26:09] Do we need help?

[26:11] It's a different folder.

[26:11] Oh, here we go, I'm sorry.

[26:13] We have multiple folders.

[26:14] Do we need training on this?

[26:19] All right, here we are.

[26:20] We got it.

[26:21] Thank you.

[26:21] All he had to do is stand up.

[26:27] We will go quick as requested.

[26:29] All right, proposed.

[26:30] This is the proposed budget.

[26:32] As you know, you've been all been working on this with us.

[26:34] Strategic priorities, public safety, fiscal resiliency and accountability,

[26:38] a sense of community and sustainable infrastructure and services.

[26:41] Those are your priorities that you gave us to begin this process.

[26:45] What we heard and started to implement is growing, we want to grow our expenses conservatively.

[26:53] Focusing really on DPS needs, expenses with the best value approach to any additions.

[26:59] really empathize with our citizens on the inflation they're experiencing, and then of course we do all this, but not ignoring our maintenance responsibilities in our infrastructure.

[27:10] Just some highlights, signal family permit, revenue, Matthew mentioned that growth is slowing.

[27:16] We're slowing a little bit, we're not doing 800-900 houses a year anymore, which is good.

[27:20] I think we need to, you know, when we were doing that, it seemed like all we were doing is just kind of serving the, in preparing for the new folks.

[27:28] but we really wanted to do stuff for the folks that were here, but we spent just a lot of time

[27:33] reacting, and so now we've got a little bit more, we've got a lot more commercial growth,

[27:37] which is a little bit different animal. But here's you can see, this is from our permanent

[27:41] revenue replacement plan, the black line on FY24 shows what our budget was for this year,

[27:47] and this is the total, of course, is what we're anticipating to collect, which we'll talk about

[27:52] a little bit later in the next agenda item.

[27:58] And of course, the tax rate, we love to talk about the

[28:00] tax rate 7th lowest in the Metroplex with the Dallas Chamber cities that were reviewed.

[28:08] Property taxes, the diminumist rate is the proposal, this number is a little bit off.

[28:13] It's going to go up about .02 from the anticipated rate here, just because of the tweak that we made to the senior tax exemption, going to 50.

[28:26] The road fee was eliminated, which saves about $36 a year.

[28:32] The average tax bill, I think, was about $31 a year,

[28:35] Resue, that it's going up, so we're about net, we're about net down about $5.

[28:43] And then, of course, but there's a garbage rate increase, let's about $1 a month,

[28:47] so we're back to a kind of a net negative 7 for the average household per year.

[28:53] which is not bad considering inflation and everything else going on.

[28:57] So where does the money come from? It comes mostly from property tax, but look at this sales tax.

[29:02] This is forecasted in the coming year.

[29:05] So we are optimistic that we're using realistic sales tax projections from Zachtax.

[29:09] We help us with our sales tax projections.

[29:11] And so you can see licenses and permits.

[29:14] Historically, have been a major part of our budget coming way down as far as the part of the pie.

[29:20] sales tax. We just talked about that. You can see the sales tax jumping all the way to about

[29:27] three word, anticipating about 3.9 million. Still not that much, but we're getting there.

[29:35] And you know,

[29:36] where do we spend our money? Mostly we spend it on police, put the police function being the blue.

[29:41] And then of course all the other functions fire being another big one. And then transferring to

[29:47] different other functions and so forth and so on.

[29:53] Road maintenance, this is probably the biggest, one of the biggest, if not the biggest item in the budget.

[30:00] As far as the operating budget going from a million, roughly a million to a one and a half million on road maintenance every year. And then we also add street maintenance tech and then a literal control tech, which was part of the actually sanitation fund there. So big emphasis on fixing things and cleaning up the town. And the next big one, if not bigger, really, in total budget impact is the public safety staffing. So we're getting closer

[30:29] We're supposed to fill in the staffing, we're still in total, we're still too short, but we're going to get there.

[30:37] We're proposing adding three fire lieutenants, a lot of part time fire folks.

[30:45] And adding on the police side in our codex detective, it's a half year position.

[30:50] So we've got to fund that fully in the next year.

[30:53] And then we've got a school resource officer, which for a couple months, but we've got to pull that person into next year as well.

[30:59] into the next next year.

[31:01] The capital improvement program, all funds about 25 million on new roads is mostly that one.

[31:08] Mostly that's the biggest one about 11 and then continuing pump station 3 for 5 million.

[31:15] Hopefully it's finished as well and then not in the budget because it has to pass from the voters.

[31:20] We're going to be talking about that tonight is a DPS bond now the new numbers 20 million from 29.

[31:26] Some of the big CIP projects in the budget mis-made drive, 5 million working on pump station

[31:32] 3, hopefully finishing it up, 5 million North Bend Payne for 3.3, finishing that and

[31:38] then Gettysburg to Blackland about 2.7 in this year and then possibly well we're actually

[31:44] hoping to get some of that started this year, so we'll see how that goes, if we may have

[31:48] to put the whole thing in next year, we're still negotiating that one and then of course

[31:52] we mentioned the DPS bond it's going to go through that's going to go through multiple years

[31:56] what makes some tweaks to the CIP to install that. So really the action that you need to take

[32:02] you've done that you've held the public hearing on the on the budget. Any other changes at this

[32:07] pointer optional for you and that is it for me. So Michael the next budget will have the new

[32:12] Cocona Postman Officer and you know a person with the MDD budget. We have a code enforcement officer

[32:20] that you all have added. Yes. Okay. So we'll start that person in January. Okay. I didn't put

[32:26] that in the slide. That's why I always want to make sure. Yeah, we still have so we have the

[32:29] code enforcement person. And then I think there's some, there's some interest in maybe adding economic

[32:34] development staff of some sort. MDD. So we could talk about that. So that would be an MDD's

[32:38] budget. And we could do that. You could direct us to do that tonight if you'd like. Cody,

[32:44] Any questions?

[32:45] Mark.

[32:48] The trash, decided I had the two people from one fish street to one for trash, what's that trash person do?

[32:55] They are going to do essentially beautification, so litter pick up, and when they're not doing litter pick up, they're going to go into the street department.

[33:05] Okay, help with street functions.

[33:08] The

[33:10] revenues slide you showed sales tax percentage of 22% in last year's budget.

[33:17] What was our sales tax?

[33:21] Ratchet, you're doing it for the last year?

[33:24] I can pull up last year's budget.

[33:28] I think it's just this year.

[33:30] 20?

[33:30] Thank you, Justin.

[33:31] That's why it's not like that.

[33:36] All right, Michael.

[33:36] Thank you.

[33:37] Appreciate it.

[33:38] All right.

[33:38] Next, please.

[33:39] Is agenda item 6c, discuss, consider, and take any necessary action regarding surpluses and the general fund.

[33:48] So I'm going to give you guys a proposal, and who's going to talk about that?

[33:52] You?

[33:52] I will talk and read you will be in support.

[33:57] So, you have to oppose the three things.

[33:59] Right, just to clarify on the last item, we didn't take any action on the MBD, so we'll just continue with that.

[34:06] Wait, is for now?

[34:07] Yeah.

[34:07] So

[34:13] we have some surplus fund.

[34:14] We think we're going to have, let me get this off the screen if I can, help.

[34:24] I only have a mouse.

[34:30] Thank you, sir.

[34:33] All right, for this one, we're just going to speak from the staff summary.

[34:36] So we have, we think we have about, we'll have about $2 million.

[34:42] If development continues at the pace, it's going right now.

[34:46] So our proposal is if we want to use about a million for a bumper truck,

[34:51] We pulled the bumper trucks, we pulled, all directed for change to the DPS bond, and I don't want to try to cross pollinate these bits hard not to.

[35:00] So the directive, what yes, last meeting was, from go from 22.5 million to 20 million, and to do that, what we're proposing, leading the land purchase, which was somewhat controversial.

[35:14] We've kind of got that tone from y'all, and then to go ahead and do, we think the best thing would be to pull a million out and do the bumper truck.

[35:21] So if we do this, we could spend a million of our surplus coming up on a new bumper truck and get that on its way at some point.

[35:29] And then we've got, now we've got a million left, with that million, we could save 500,000.

[35:35] We don't know if we're about to get into legal issues, defending our rural areas in the comprehensive plan.

[35:42] So we've got we could save a little bit for that and then potentially front load the road maintenance fund

[35:48] Which is fun to a one we could transfer money into the road maintenance fund since we're raising the

[35:54] The amount we couldn't fully fund it at one and a half million. We'd love to do that

[35:58] Just so that there's a whole years worth of money in the road maintenance fund because what happened last year when we got into trouble with

[36:05] The with the permit stripping as the financial markets and the buyers were starting to

[36:10] We had to adjust to the higher interest rates, we had that slow down, and so we had to do is we had to stop some of our maintenance transfers into that fund.

[36:19] So if we had money in that fund, we could see the problems coming slow down the transfers, but still complete the work for that year.

[36:28] So we could at least we could put a third of it in there, so we could put 500,000 in the road maintenance fund.

[36:33] So those proposals, 500 for the road maintenance fund, 500 to remain in the general fund,

[36:38] fund balance for transfer, for legal fees if needed and a million for a bumper truck.

[36:43] Okay, any questions, suggestions?

[36:45] You good, Mark, you good with this?

[36:49] So, if we're going to remove the property, where are we going to put the police station?

[36:54] No, this is the surplus, this is not the police station.

[36:56] No, you should remove the property from the bond for $29,000.

[36:59] But that would be different, there's a different action from the bond that's next.

[37:02] Okay.

[37:03] That's on the surplus only.

[37:04] All right.

[37:05] Okay, Scott.

[37:11] Only recommendation is I know you're using dollars just to simplify, but let's just set whatever we do is a percentage of the surplus that way, whatever dollar comes in.

[37:21] Half of it goes to a fire truck.

[37:24] It'll be in 50% to 25%.

[37:26] 10.9% I'll go with that, Mark.

[37:29] let's say we didn't use all the legal fees. I know that could that could be years away

[37:33] before we know that. What would that what would end up going with or would that money go?

[37:37] That would be on the hard discretion.

[37:39] Back in the general fund and I would I would put it in the road maintenance.

[37:43] Road maintenance. Okay, but that's our discretion says.

[37:46] Okay. Lance anything. All right, so we need a motion on us.

[37:51] If you like. I do like that idea. Okay, I'll take a motion.

[37:54] So we're going to do it by percentages, so the far truck cover will be cheap if you go with them.

[38:00] Okay, far truck cover, it's 50%, the front load, the road maintenance at 25%, and the case you've lost it at 25%, 100%, I'll take a motion please.

[38:10] I'll make a motion that with any budget surplus we have this year, that 50% is dedicated to the acquisition of a fire vehicle.

[38:21] that 25% is dedicated to the road making this fund and that 25% is dedicated to potential legal fees.

[38:32] All right. I have a motion to that second, please.

[38:33] That's second.

[38:34] I motion a second.

[38:35] Please vote.

[38:37] I'm sorry, any more discussion?

[38:38] I apologize.

[38:39] Okay, please vote.

[38:43] I know I'm learning.

[38:45] I'm going to hand you in the minute.

[38:47] Motion passes 6 to 0.

[38:49] Thank you, Mark.

[38:51] Next, please.

[38:53] Agenda item 60, discuss, consider and take any necessary action regarding ordinance number O2024-040 calling a bond election to be held on November 5th, 2024 for Public Safety Facilities and Equipment.

[39:07] Chief is that your Michael, who is going to, Chief is going to be primary now.

[39:11] I heard the rumor that you were in the primary time, Chief.

[39:21] I'm going to give

[39:36] a little bit of an overview of some of the things that we've been doing and then kind of hone in on a few of the things that we talked about specifically.

[39:46] I am going to hand out a napkin drawing.

[39:53] It's also in our presentation here, but I want to.

[40:31] Okay, so this

[40:36] is what I did, and you guys can look over that,

[40:39] but this is not an architect.

[40:42] And as you've probably plainly seen, but we'll go through some of this,

[40:46] and then this handout that I gave you will kind of play into that.

[40:51] So some of the ideas, I wanted to share with you some of the things

[40:55] that were in my head because I think maybe that will give you all a little bit of understanding

[41:05] kind of where I'm at and to know that we're not trying to do, you know, a huge multi-story,

[41:12] you know, 15-story building or anything with brass door knobs or things like that or whatever.

[41:20] So that this is something that's a modest building that we're looking at, but something

[41:25] in that our city can be proud of and then we can function in.

[41:28] This first picture that I have is kind of one

[41:31] of my more favorites.

[41:33] Now I don't like the entrance off to the side

[41:36] if that was placed directly in the middle

[41:38] and entry door in the middle as what I've drawn

[41:41] and we'll see on the screen in a minute.

[41:43] I think would be a little bit nicer.

[41:47] Some other designs, I spend a lot of time

[41:51] looking at a bunch of different buildings

[41:53] all around the country.

[41:54] and what I felt like would fit for us and so there's all these different concepts and so we have to look for what is best for fate and our operations.

[42:10] This building here, I put this one on here specifically, this is Prosper, Prosper built this facility and I believe the square footage was

[42:22] was 25,000 square foot, and they announced it to the public.

[42:28] They built it for the future.

[42:29] They outgrew it in two years.

[42:31] Of course, we know prosperous, a little faster growing than we are,

[42:35] but it was kind of interesting in talking to the architect,

[42:39] the design miss, and he was talking about their fast growth

[42:42] and the projections that they had, and they missed it completely.

[42:47] And now they have people that are sharing offices

[42:50] and converting other spaces, workspaces into a place for their personnel.

[42:56] So that's one of the things that we're trying not to do, try not to over build, but try

[43:00] not to under build something as well.

[43:03] And so here is floor one of a two story facility.

[43:09] Now I want to give you a little bit of insight of how I come up with this, or how I drew

[43:17] this because you can tell I didn't draw this by hand because I tried that. I started off with a ruler

[43:22] and a pencil and I'm not an artist. So what I did is I got 15 floor plans from various police

[43:32] facilities and I went into my wife's craft room and using her scissors, glue, and paper,

[43:40] I created this and here's all the different colors of the floor plan of the different facilities

[43:46] And so, and then after that, that's why it's in black and white because I didn't want

[43:51] you to see all these crazy colors.

[43:54] So floor first floor is patrol property evidence, physical fitness, and also on this a thing

[44:03] that talking a few other agencies is a forensic or an evidence garage, plays two purposes.

[44:13] one that we can bring a vehicle in that was involved in a crime and we can fingerprint

[44:19] that secure it all the things that we may need to do with that vehicle and also that

[44:26] we can put a vehicle in there and have access directly to our property evidence room

[44:31] so that when we take things for destruction or to narcotics facilities for lab testing that

[44:40] that we don't have to exit the building

[44:42] and anything happening to this stuff,

[44:44] it's more secure.

[44:46] And so that's one of the things that that was done.

[44:52] Second floor, administration, investigations,

[44:58] some training.

[45:00] We have a room, a couple extra interview rooms. You probably saw some interview rooms down in the first floor as well for patrol to use. But this one is a little more secure interviews and for the detectives. It has a quartermaster area, restrooms, no actual locker rooms up here, but restrooms and things for the training room. So we can post trainings of our own personnel as well as outside

[45:30] agencies can come to us and we can host training because a lot of times when we

[45:35] host training we get free spots for that if we give some of these places a

[45:41] place to train. And so that's one of the targets that we're wanting to do is

[45:45] offer some of that training and bring things to us instead of us going various

[45:51] places.

[45:54] And then going on further is a few other just visual ideas of like a

[46:02] lobby area, secured lobby, lockers for the locker room in June. A evidence

[46:11] prep room with the evidence lockers that would be for temporary storage. Most

[46:16] Because those of y'all that toured our facilities and saw we have these little elementary school

[46:22] lockers that we lock our evidence in for our evidence technician to come get.

[46:27] This is the professional way.

[46:32] And then our permanent evidence storage in rolling bins that they can minimum space and those

[46:42] can all roll together so that those can take up a lot less space.

[46:46] So you don't have to have oles in between each one.

[46:51] And then on this bond also, we've talked about two apparatus.

[46:56] We've worked with the, what we just passed was spending some of our extra money for the

[47:03] engine.

[47:04] This would be reduced down to a ladder truck that would be ordered and so there would be one

[47:09] apparatus on this bond and that's how we've got to bring this number down.

[47:14] Re-mon on the south side, and there was one item that I did forget when we were talking

[47:21] is I'll remodel on the current station in some of those areas, but that would also

[47:26] be included in this bond, is to take our current facility that we are using office space

[47:34] and things, parts of the fire station, and return those back to fire duties that the police

[47:41] are currently using.

[47:44] And then here's Raju or Michael's first and I'll say the question.

[47:56] Yeah, whatever chief talked about the capital items, we took that concept translated into

[48:04] dollars and tax rates.

[48:06] These are the takeaways.

[48:09] 20 year geo bonds at the 5%, it will cost about 80,555 dollars for each million dollars.

[48:20] And that is not due under the first payment will be due in FY 26.

[48:29] We estimated the home value, FY 25 is 349, be estimated for FY 26, this is going to

[48:40] be 370,000, 247.

[48:42] And the same way we estimated the taxable value,

[48:49] assess value, right now, we have 3.2.

[48:54] That is going to be $3.7 billion.

[48:58] That will translate into 4.3 cents in 2026.

[49:07] And the first year, that's going to be 1.6.

[49:10] That is going to cost about $161 a year for an average homeowner.

[49:23] Questions, Chief?

[49:25] Let's open up questions.

[49:30] So based on the numbers that you're showing here, Raju, it looks like a $20 million bond

[49:35] is over the 20 years is going to cost us around $32.2 million, including all the interest payments.

[49:42] Yes.

[49:42] There's a lot of money.

[49:47] Look at your floor plans, Chief, how big do you, and is this a 20,000-square-foot facility?

[49:56] So not to scale?

[49:58] I get it.

[49:59] But, yes, that's what's, what's designed to be.

[50:02] So, here's the questions.

[50:04] And I'm looking at the seat placement in here, your patrol debriefing.

[50:12] We have spots for 24 officers.

[50:14] Do you ever anticipate us having a shift change to 24?

[50:17] Yes.

[50:18] When?

[50:19] So, if we have a full buildout, if we're at somewhere around 100 officers,

[50:26] you would be around 10 per shift plus supervisors and maybe any other visiting personnel?

[50:34] So you're saying then around 100 officers, two officers per 1,000 at a 50,000 population

[50:42] buildup?

[50:43] Yes, sir.

[50:45] When is that anticipated?

[50:47] Well, that depends completely on our growth if we're fully built out that we've talked

[50:53] about years of 20 years.

[50:56] We have a planning director in the audience, right?

[50:59] You remember when the buildup is in the complex?

[51:01] We'll build out.

[51:01] We

[51:08] only know the projections up to 20 to 2040, which is what the 4-fake comprehensive plan showed and our population

[51:14] that bill that at that time was 54,000.

[51:17] Do you think it's going to go more, it can't go more than that, can it?

[51:21] Well, it can, yeah, and it depends on the land use decisions that are made in the-

[51:24] So that would be a lot of extra multi-family stuff, right?

[51:30] Or smaller residential lots as well, okay.

[51:33] Or we lose the battle in Austin, right?

[51:34] We start losing the battle on us on when they start taking the defense statewide

[51:39] zoning, right?

[51:40] Sure.

[51:40] Okay.

[51:41] So the next thing, so then based on what you just projected, we should be at 56 officers

[51:49] today.

[51:51] That's one model, yes.

[51:53] Well, that's the model you're proposing for.

[51:56] Well, I can't remember for this.

[51:58] I didn't necessarily.

[52:00] These are, this is just a napkin.

[52:03] Sure.

[52:03] I get it, but all these little chairs on there don't necessarily mean I have to be.

[52:08] But I know, I do commercial construction, right?

[52:14] And I know how big a 20,000 square foot facility is because I built them.

[52:19] I've got a 15,000 square foot facility out in Greenville right at the present moment.

[52:24] I know how big that facility is.

[52:25] But just based on what I'm seeing here,

[52:30] that based on your model of two officers per thousand,

[52:37] we should be at 56 officers.

[52:40] And we're at what, 30 total?

[52:42] 32.

[52:44] So you're telling me that we are short by

[52:51] 18 officers.

[52:52] So I would say at the moment, not that short,

[52:56] I would say that we could use more at the moment, but we also look at our call volumes.

[53:05] Our city's still pretty young and our guys are out there trying the hardest to keep

[53:11] the crime rate down.

[53:13] And so obviously when you get more population and more two men calls and things like that,

[53:20] that we would have, yes, that could possibly happen.

[53:22] I'm not questioning the performance of your officers at all.

[53:29] What I am questioning in this facility, this large of a facility, is whether it's going to be used or not used.

[53:37] And if it's going to take 15 years to use it all, right?

[53:42] I mean, because when I look at here, you've got just based on your napkin, right?

[53:48] Whether it's there or not, you've got room in here for 12 CIDs.

[53:54] detectives. We're ever going to have 12 detectives. Well, there also has spots for, you know,

[54:01] maybe SRO come in, do some reports or things like, you know, maybe not. And that room that

[54:08] is, again, not the scale to try to, you know, is the locker room the appropriate size. These are

[54:15] things that I just printed and stuck them in here. Stuck them in there for placeholders to get

[54:21] a visual? I would not an actor. I would sooner see like we went over last time. You guys

[54:28] are administration is presently in about 25 to 2700 square feet total for everything.

[54:35] That you guys have. And I certainly recognize and support the fact that you need to expand.

[54:44] You need to have a better facility. I mean, you're anyways.

[54:50] You're sitting on top of

[54:52] each other, I'll put it to you that way in 2,200 square feet.

[54:55] I recognize that fact.

[54:56] I recognize the fact that you need extra equipment, pump trucks, that kind of stuff.

[55:02] I'm all for all of that.

[55:04] I recognize that you guys need that we need to do something on the south side.

[55:12] I recognize the fact that we need to do something in the downtown station, right?

[55:17] That that remodel has to happen.

[55:19] The remodel on the south side has to happen.

[55:21] But I just, I questioned the size of putting in a 20,000 square foot facility to be planned

[55:28] for on day one and built on day one for something that's not going to be used until 2045, right?

[55:38] If we even get to that size.

[55:40] The question that I would propose is, why would we not build something

[55:47] 12,000 square feet,

[55:49] which is four or four and a half times what you guys are presently in with the option

[55:55] to expand that, another 8,000 square feet to get you to a total of 20,000 square feet

[56:01] facility in a future year, five years, bringing the bond down to around $16 million.

[56:11] If I run through what I know from a construction perspective and all that kind of stuff,

[56:16] But you could probably do it well for $16 million and then come back at a later date to do an expansion in 10 years where you need to buy property for another location on the west side if we need to and then lower the debt cost and then not burn up all of our debt capacity because $20 million on this will eat up our debt capacity probably for three to five years.

[56:50] It's pretty, what do you think, it's pretty good guess?

[56:54] Three to five years, debt, and then we've got road work that has to happen.

[56:57] We may have to do more bonds on the, I mean, I think that, that shooting this all in one big $20

[57:06] million bond at 433 cents, 4.33 cents, I think that if we, we staged it,

[57:17] Made it a little bit smaller on a concept, put in the things that you need,

[57:25] and drop the tax rate by a penny.

[57:31] Not burn up all of our debt capacity will be a lot more prudent than going for the whole thing right at once.

[57:42] Thank you, Mark.

[57:51] Thank you, Chief.

[57:51] plan, and I'm looking right at it on the fake policy manual, compressed says, we need

[57:58] to make room for 19,410 new residential units to accommodate projected population growth.

[58:05] This sounds to me, this is a problem that the sticker shock probably should have been

[58:11] several years ago when the council approved a lot of the multi-family, maybe even some

[58:17] of the single families.

[58:18] This is the chicken's coming home to roost.

[58:22] This is something that I think DPS didn't lay this problem at our door.

[58:27] We laid it at theirs.

[58:30] I went by the DPS office again today at several people's requests and I went by and looked

[58:36] at it.

[58:36] I have toured it before and I answered their questions.

[58:41] They're actually pretty shocked at how small that our police officers are having to go work

[58:47] in the compact area. I mean, the caution probably should have been years ago. And every

[58:54] time that we think we get a large project here that we think is, you know, is going

[58:58] to be so great and so wonderful. We need to think what that's going to do to our roads,

[59:02] what that's going to do to our resources, what kind of pressure that's going to put on

[59:05] DPS and fire.

[59:09] I don't think it's an unreasonable number. I've called around to other fire and

[59:16] and police departments, they think this is pretty in line with what it is.

[59:20] Trying to do it pieces at a time, maybe just taking the can down the road and

[59:27] cost are going to go higher and inflation is going to go higher.

[59:30] So like I say, I think when we approve projects, we need to think literally a lot further down

[59:35] the road than what we're doing.

[59:39] That's my opinion.

[59:45] By the way, I got several compliments to take about the chief

[59:48] and I actually did find out today and I know he picked on his wall. He was the

[59:53] DPS officer of the year and I have a tremendous amount of respect for him. He answered

[59:59] for everything applied.

[1:00:00] And I had the day about it very, very intelligently and very, very thorough, even to a lay person who's not a law enforcement. And I don't think any of us up here are. So, I value his expertise. And that's, that's my piece. Thank you. Scott.

[1:00:18] Roger, on the debt service piece you've got the initial year impact at 4.3 cents, but I assume that's going to be reduced as property values increase with what we know we've got on the pipeline and that's dependent on understand on the commercial pieces being built out at Lafayette Crossing.

[1:00:45] What we know, we've gotten a pipeline, at what point would you estimate that we would have another

[1:00:55] capacity to issue another $5-10 million in bonds for road, whatever may come up?

[1:01:00] I know you said three to five years, but does that get us to another $5-10 million?

[1:01:07] What does that look like?

[1:01:07] Yeah, I was talking to Tony about it, she is more qualified to answer that question, she's from the Hiltab.

[1:01:21] Hi, good evening, members of the council, Mayor.

[1:01:23] My name is Tonya Askins, I'm with Hiltab's supervisors.

[1:01:27] So we actually have run this scenario as kind of a built looking at into the future.

[1:01:33] And you could actually do double that kind of going forward.

[1:01:37] Depending on growth, stable growth, managing the tax rate.

[1:01:41] And we'll just had a conversation about what to do with the extra general fund revenues.

[1:01:45] So in the future, you could even use, you can even pay that debt down.

[1:01:49] So there is capacity, it's just a matter of how you manage.

[1:01:53] And also the 20 million doesn't have to all be spent.

[1:01:57] You can authorize it, but spend less.

[1:01:59] So just two pieces, it helps.

[1:02:01] Perfect, thank you.

[1:02:03] And she feel like comment I would make about your renderings and I appreciate the work you put into it.

[1:02:08] But I certainly hope you're going to let an architect and space designer.

[1:02:13] No, no.

[1:02:15] Does that fall under the other duties as assigned?

[1:02:19] All right.

[1:02:20] Thanks for getting all the information together.

[1:02:21] The same thing in all this.

[1:02:23] Then you have a question on the answer.

[1:02:24] Okay.

[1:02:25] So the question I asked while I go, I guess, at the appropriate time since it was mentioned

[1:02:29] anyway.

[1:02:30] So if we take the property out, was that property going to be the primary location

[1:02:35] Were you wanted to build it, or was that for a future, so could be?

[1:02:42] But so the primary location that I was thinking of was Tony Lane, it could have been there.

[1:02:49] Michael and I have thrown around several scenarios, but that could have been a location because it's got good access everywhere for a police facility.

[1:03:04] police facilities don't necessarily need to be in the center of town or anything.

[1:03:08] It's, you know, you distribute your personnel out and you're pretty good.

[1:03:12] But that was, but my thought, my personal opinion was done anyway.

[1:03:18] Okay, all right, because I just want to make sure that wasn't where you had planned on building this thing.

[1:03:23] And then we say, no, take that out.

[1:03:25] For the South Side Station, I think I said this last time as well.

[1:03:29] So that's $1.5 million that we are in some point in the future going to try to spend that by the time we are able to do it, it's probably going to be more money than 1.5 million.

[1:03:44] What is the immediate need for the South, I mean I live on the South Side, I want to station on the South Side, but what is the immediate need for the South Side?

[1:03:52] Is that something that we could do without for a few years, is that so that's hard to say.

[1:03:58] The immediate need for our fire services is another crew.

[1:04:04] When multiple times a week, almost every day, we have multiple calls at a time.

[1:04:12] They did it twice today.

[1:04:15] And so that's one of my fears is if you're tied up, then our next city will definitely come

[1:04:23] and help us if they're available, but that's more road miles and more time.

[1:04:28] And so we're trying to diversify our fire crews and this is a method to do that.

[1:04:36] The second factor of that is, as here very soon, we're going to see more road barricades

[1:04:41] and things for the I-30 expansion and make it more difficult for us to move around.

[1:04:49] They've tried to reassure us that the bridge going underneath I-30 at 5.81 will never be completely closed.

[1:05:00] I've lived in Texas all my life, I know that's not what I'm interested in.

[1:05:02] Yeah, so, okay, even if it's for an hour, that's too much to, to again.

[1:05:08] So, I haven't seen that building and so is there any way to get it so that we could put a fire crew in it

[1:05:15] Without a 1.5 million dollar upgrade.

[1:05:18] There is a smaller version.

[1:05:22] However, we can outfit that building.

[1:05:26] It probably takes a couple of weeks to get a few amenities put in there, put a crew there.

[1:05:31] But I also need a crew.

[1:05:33] And so a lot of these things that we're presenting, we're trying to do one step at a time.

[1:05:39] And so that we can start building our crews.

[1:05:42] And then in a couple years, when that facility would be ready, we would have the personnel.

[1:05:48] Now, that's all up to y'all in budget, because, sure, we can say, hey,

[1:05:53] let's add six more people, and I'll have you accrue there tomorrow.

[1:05:58] Because I'm on the fence about that one just because the fact that we know the road's going to change, right?

[1:06:03] We know that that $1.5 million that we invest in there, even though we might get it back.

[1:06:07] If we don't have the people to put in the building, it's the chicken and

[1:06:14] And again, your drawing was great that I knew that was a scrapbooking deal because I've seen that before.

[1:06:20] But, and just one comment about kicking this down the road, I struggle with this every day knowing that I live in a neighborhood that does not have a mud, okay?

[1:06:32] My tax rate might be 0.26 cents, but my neighbors across the street, their tax rate is 1.01 dollars per hundred.

[1:06:39] So, every time we raise the tax rate, we take the chance of putting people out of their home.

[1:06:44] They're barely making it now, and these values are going to do nothing but increase more.

[1:06:50] So, I just, I always want to be cognizant of the fact that, you know, we talk about this 26th cent tax rate.

[1:06:57] That really isn't the burden on our public.

[1:07:00] It's more like a dollar per hundred.

[1:07:04] And so, as we sign off on $20 million, we need to make sure that every bit of that $20 million is worthwhile because, you know, that could potentially put someone out of their home, so that's all pretty.

[1:07:19] Hello.

[1:07:22] Talking to you at the police station a couple of weeks ago.

[1:07:28] So you had mentioned that veteran officers would come from other places and they were

[1:07:37] shocked at the workload that your officers have there and sometimes they don't make it

[1:07:44] because they're thinking they're just going to get a real quiet cushy little police job

[1:07:49] and instead it's like constant calls and there's not a whole lot of downtime for your officers

[1:07:56] at all.

[1:07:57] Is that correct, I mean?

[1:07:59] That is correct, we've hired some officers from larger metropolitan cities, from here, from the Metroplex.

[1:08:09] And one of the first things we tell them is this is not a retirement gig, it is a nice quiet town by the work that's put in.

[1:08:20] And, you know, the 17,000 police calls that we run last year and the 2,000 fire calls that we ran are significant.

[1:08:31] And that keeps our people busy.

[1:08:34] And so there are a lot, we've had serval officers that have come to us and then have left because of our workload.

[1:08:43] Right.

[1:08:46] Looking at Lance's point from earlier, I'm looking at, you know, the napkin and I don't see anything that could be taken out of this and he was proposing 8,000 square foot less.

[1:09:04] What would that look like?

[1:09:05] What would a, what would have to go?

[1:09:08] What would have to?

[1:09:09] Who would suffer and what would have to go in order for that?

[1:09:12] You know, we would have to shrink down several of the places, some of the detectives offices,

[1:09:19] some of the locker rooms, some of the training room, various things like that.

[1:09:24] My concern with that is, is cost don't go down.

[1:09:28] Right.

[1:09:30] And some days, somebody's going to go, why do we have to do this now?

[1:09:35] It's going to cost $X more to add to it now, and why didn't we do it in the beginning?

[1:09:42] You know, for example, this billion, if we had to replace this, at today's dollars would be way different than it was in 13 or 14 when it was built.

[1:09:51] Sure.

[1:09:52] So those numbers, you know, we don't get to see that go backwards.

[1:09:57] Correct.

[1:09:57] And if we did that, he proposed, I think he said 16 million is roughly what you thought.

[1:10:07] So it's a difference of 4 million and we're getting an extra 8,000 square foot out of the deal.

[1:10:15] And like the lady said over there, if we don't use all of the 20 million bond, we don't have to.

[1:10:23] I think I'm in full support of a 20,000 square foot building, I think that it is absolutely needed, especially looking at the comp plan and knowing that we are going to double in size between now and 2040, 2040, 2040,

[1:10:42] So, I absolutely know that it is necessary.

[1:10:48] Also, the only thing that I keep bringing up that I don't think I have much support on,

[1:10:56] but is I would really like to move away from the fire station being in downtown.

[1:11:01] And I don't know if it's possible for us to somehow make the south station the main one with the trucks,

[1:11:10] rather and have maybe do administrative stuff in downtown so that we're not having to have that you know logistical issue when the fire trucks are leaving out in the middle of traffic or you know it's not being able to shoot the roadways when we have festivals down there but in my opinion that is that's a problem and I wish we could figure out a way to move away from having fire trucks in downtown you know.

[1:11:38] No, so those are my thoughts.

[1:11:41] All right, the couple, thank you for doing this chief.

[1:11:42] Nice job.

[1:11:44] A couple things, how big is Royce City's new police department?

[1:11:48] Building?

[1:11:50] 28,000 square foot.

[1:11:51] And how big is their new fire department?

[1:11:53] We're about the two are in two days, that's where it is.

[1:11:56] So that's the police building.

[1:11:57] I know, the two do building right there.

[1:12:00] Police are in their fire department.

[1:12:00] Well, they built a fire station two years ago, yeah.

[1:12:05] And how big was that?

[1:12:06] And it's, I'm not sure if you're on the score for them.

[1:12:11] Yeah, something like that.

[1:12:12] All right.

[1:12:13] Right, so this is the way I'm thinking about this, right?

[1:12:15] I understand that the capacity issue,

[1:12:17] and I think you do too chief, right?

[1:12:18] We need a road fix too, right, huh?

[1:12:21] And you historically said it's a public safety issue

[1:12:23] for you to have good roads get there.

[1:12:25] So I think, Resu, I want to make sure I understand the,

[1:12:29] so in four or five years, we could run a family

[1:12:32] into our road bond, or suddenly in our road bond,

[1:12:36] and keep our AA at the S&P rating, correct?

[1:12:40] Is that, again, it's worth.

[1:12:41] So we have some deck capacity based on future growth, right?

[1:12:46] Yes, I'm here.

[1:12:47] Okay.

[1:12:53] You're definitely better tax rates than I am so.

[1:12:55] But there's a possibility given our growth and our sales tax growth.

[1:12:58] We don't have to increase the tax rate by four cents.

[1:13:02] We can spread that out of a period of time.

[1:13:04] depends on our sales tax growth and our residential growth, correct?

[1:13:08] Yeah.

[1:13:09] If that could be one, drag any four cents one, one, two thousand, this will 26, it won't be four cents.

[1:13:14] It could be less than that, depending on the values and the sales tax.

[1:13:20] If you look at the financial model, the first year 2026 is 4.3 cents, and that will decrease as a value of, you know.

[1:13:29] So, historically, when chief and you first, we increase the tax rate by officer, but he's like, what, down we find, so then we have come back down on the tax rights of a period of time, and we're just been the same thing that happened here, as we grow and give ourselves tax, that we can subsidize a property tax back down where we want to be.

[1:13:48] And you know, and more residential types pay this down.

[1:13:52] More tax rate could be buying off some of the debt.

[1:13:56] There's all kinds of options.

[1:13:58] Oh, stop.

[1:13:59] And so the first thing we do to the present day,

[1:14:01] is you talk about de-nexation and exations,

[1:14:03] all that stopping Austin, right?

[1:14:05] Does this take an account down?

[1:14:07] I don't know, historically, you have taken account that.

[1:14:09] Well, so there could possibly be some areas

[1:14:13] that if de-nex would not be police service anymore,

[1:14:19] They still would be in our fire district, so that's a different thing.

[1:14:23] The police service, there would be some properties that may not, we may not be responsible

[1:14:29] for any more.

[1:14:30] I don't know the exact land areas.

[1:14:34] I know the locations, but I don't know how much land area or population.

[1:14:38] I think so as the county's trying to figure this out, going forward, right, because they don't

[1:14:42] know either, right?

[1:14:43] But there's a lot to talk about.

[1:14:46] I'm not having their own police departments now, right?

[1:14:49] Just talking about the private city concept.

[1:14:51] Greater mud now, we'll say, well, you have to find your own police department,

[1:14:55] partner partners.

[1:14:56] But you still do the mutual aid, right?

[1:14:58] We call it on that.

[1:15:00] Okay. Yeah, there's some of these districts, they either contract with law enforcement or it's automatic. Maybe the sheriff's office and the county contract with fire services. They would definitely have to do that. So those, those things are also potential out in our county areas. And some cities have done already. I know one city and kind of has already done that the month. They've been charged a month per month per

[1:15:32] So the way I think about this coming if I get wrong, so basically we're $20 million, I mean I understand the debt capacity argument, so I think it's a bit about debt capacity now we're not as strict as that value, but the way I think about is we're going to get basically three stations when brand new one, one downtown remodeled and one on the south side remodeled for $20 million, basically in three stations, that's what your needs for 10, 15 years.

[1:15:56] So that would, yes, just not really, but I like the way it sounds.

[1:16:04] I do too.

[1:16:05] You know, because one of the things is, it was originally, it was originally proposed for

[1:16:13] a police fire, a combination building on the north side.

[1:16:16] Correct.

[1:16:17] And then that would eliminate the downtown area.

[1:16:20] That's 30.

[1:16:21] That was 30.

[1:16:21] We're asked to reduce that, and then we come back with our biggest need, is a police facility, and then we can remodel the south side down to operate in fire stations and a police building.

[1:16:35] And so we reduce that to that, this model currently is presented.

[1:16:41] And so that's kind of where we're at now, we talk about future need, and we know there's our future growth.

[1:16:47] I mean, it's a crystal ball.

[1:16:48] Well, and given Austin could do statewide zoning, we have no control over our

[1:16:52] local control, right?

[1:16:53] That would have a different problem for us, Lance.

[1:16:56] I have a couple of follow-up questions for you, Chief.

[1:16:59] Of the 32 DPS officers you have now, how many of those are fired only?

[1:17:03] Or does that not include the fire people?

[1:17:06] No, so that's not included.

[1:17:07] So that's not included?

[1:17:08] So really, based on the budget at 18, at being 18 people short, you really should have an

[1:17:17] operating budget of around $10 million right now, instead of the six.

[1:17:22] If our citizens committed the average amount of crime that they do, which they don't?

[1:17:27] I'm just, you're throwing, you're using a national, a national number.

[1:17:31] I'm going to use that to do the calculations.

[1:17:34] The chief's association has a different number than the manager's association.

[1:17:37] So we're always fighting.

[1:17:38] Well, all right, I think the chief numbers are probably better.

[1:17:44] So, at 56 officers, you know, that's a $10 million budget, which is really worth $4 million in short.

[1:17:55] Right, yes, sir?

[1:17:56] And I get that, you know, I'm not saying that you don't need the stuff that you need.

[1:18:03] Because I've toured the same buildings as everybody else and tripped over the same things

[1:18:08] that everybody else isn't looked at your armory and in your evidence room and all that

[1:18:15] kind of stuff. And I fully agree with, I fully agree that you need to have all this

[1:18:19] stuff and that we should be putting in. But it really doesn't get us three stations.

[1:18:24] It still gets, we still have a fireside that we have to figure out what to do with, right?

[1:18:29] So this is purely talking, talking police side. You still have fire people you have to fund

[1:18:35] on top of it. And the fire right now is at like $1.6 million for the proposed

[1:18:42] budget, and you say you need another crew, and that crew is probably what, another

[1:18:47] six people?

[1:18:48] Yes, sir.

[1:18:50] Right?

[1:18:50] So, you're almost going to double, really, on top of it, so you're at a $2 million

[1:18:58] fire budget on top of it, is really what you need today, not tomorrow, today, right?

[1:19:04] And if we take this out out to 50,000 people, you know, you're looking at almost,

[1:19:13] you should be running a $20 million police budget, and you probably need to be running

[1:19:17] at least a $4 to $6 million fire budget on top of it.

[1:19:21] Plus the X3 equipment that you need in order to respond with those crews you got to add,

[1:19:31] which means another fire station somewhere.

[1:19:33] And that's where the public safety concept falls apart, right, where it falls apart.

[1:19:41] So, but I still think I think it's prudent to take smaller incremental steps and

[1:19:48] build it as you go versus building some big building that's going to sit partially empty for a number of years.

[1:19:56] All right, the other mark.

[1:20:00] Okay, so what if you potentially built a larger building, yet made part of it a fire station for now.

[1:20:12] Eliminate the downtown station, sell that building off.

[1:20:17] Over time, as we build the fire department up in staff, think about another station to build later on down the road and then remodel.

[1:20:26] Well, what was the fire part of that into the larger and I'm just trying to think outside like how do we how do we get everything and get the station that because the station downtown is I have to agree with code like just seeing those guys leave out of there and by the way guys all those that are here we appreciate everything these are all numbers we still appreciate where you're at we want to make sure you got the right stuff so so to answer a question that was proposal number one.

[1:20:58] So you would say instead of a 20 so if you made it 20,000 square foot, but you know we were originally at 25 right and we would share.

[1:21:08] You'd add the base on and a small portion for living quarters because some of these areas could be shared locker rooms could be shared.

[1:21:18] training rooms can be shared, you know, reception areas can be shared.

[1:21:22] There are some shareable space here.

[1:21:24] Right.

[1:21:25] And now, you know, it had to be better designed than crafty skills

[1:21:33] if you added on later to still be able to share those at another point

[1:21:38] if you were to build on something later.

[1:21:41] But, you know, the extra bay room and a little bit of living quarters

[1:21:45] There's really what we were cutting off prior.

[1:21:50] I guess what I'm trying to, I realize that the original ones like almost $30 million, right?

[1:21:55] Obviously we can't do that or we probably probably shouldn't do that.

[1:21:59] But if we know we're going to grow into this building eventually, we're not going to be there for

[1:22:03] several years because obviously we don't have the staff to fill it.

[1:22:06] Could we still build the building to be in the $20 million, get the people there, sell off the piece of property, pay back part of the debt with that property or use it for roads?

[1:22:15] whatever. And then at that point as we get the staff over the next hour and

[1:22:20] many years, we can afford to do that, then build a separate fire station,

[1:22:24] convert that fire station to the test, your 20,000 square foot building into police department.

[1:22:31] Okay, Matt. Okay. I'm not sure how.

[1:22:33] Good. I don't, I don't, I don't know how because of the number that we're

[1:22:43] to get that extra facility, even if it's an empty building,

[1:22:49] you know, it's still, you're gonna scrape some money off

[1:22:53] the remodel of the downtown station, right?

[1:22:55] That could be applied back then.

[1:22:57] So again, I'm just trying to think outside the box.

[1:23:00] I appreciate all the different things, different options.

[1:23:06] So, I know you had mentioned there was a grant that you were applying for, for extra fire, was it just fire, was it police?

[1:23:16] So, there's like for nine different.

[1:23:19] We do, we go out for several grants.

[1:23:21] We've had some police grants and we've done ballistic vests, body camera things like that.

[1:23:26] But there is a grant that we're eyeing in the future that when that comes up open with

[1:23:34] discuss the staffing grant for personnel, it's a deescalating fund for a three-year period.

[1:23:43] There's also some of them are equipment grants.

[1:23:46] And so those are things that we're going to be looking at in the future.

[1:23:50] Okay.

[1:23:52] How long would it take for the build out?

[1:23:54] Do we have any numbers on that, like how long once the bond passes, because we're not talking about staffing right now, staff afield.

[1:24:02] So we have time to come up with that money, it's not like it's an immediate need, right?

[1:24:10] Just do we have any idea how long it takes once-

[1:24:13] So I'm going to, my uneducated Steve might be able to do better, about six, eight months design.

[1:24:21] Okay.

[1:24:21] Year and a half to build.

[1:24:23] Okay.

[1:24:23] Okay, so we're talking over two years until that happens.

[1:24:29] Okay.

[1:24:34] Could we not do 25,000 square feet and scrap the south side remodel and just hold on to that.

[1:24:45] I mean, we keep talking about how we don't need that right now and we can't staff it anyways.

[1:24:50] And if we were to just leave that as it is and do 25,000, isn't a fire station cheaper than police?

[1:24:58] Our goal tonight is not to design the building, our goal tonight is that we put the bond at and that the architecture of the work and come back to the polls.

[1:25:06] The one thing that I probably didn't explain too well is our downtown station is pretty central.

[1:25:14] And so, it works pretty well right now to cover all the areas with one crew.

[1:25:20] If we move that station to the north side, we would need a south side station because

[1:25:29] of the distancing time trial.

[1:25:32] And we would need it immediately.

[1:25:33] Yeah.

[1:25:34] And so, that's the strategy that we've been working on is how do we make this function

[1:25:42] and then we were thinking about there's a barrier

[1:25:45] of the interstate between.

[1:25:47] And so we were concerned of that.

[1:25:50] And that's where in the future of North Station

[1:25:53] and then in the more distant future, west side.

[1:25:57] Right.

[1:25:58] And so those are the things that are long-term goals,

[1:26:02] are 20-year goals.

[1:26:04] And so each one of them has a placeholder in time.

[1:26:09] That's right.

[1:26:09] Yeah, I understand a little bit.

[1:26:10] Thank you.

[1:26:10] So we're playing a little strategy game.

[1:26:13] Yeah, okay, thank you Chief, appreciate it.

[1:26:16] All right, I will take a motion, please.

[1:26:22] I'll make a motion that we prove ordinance number O2024-040, calling a bond election

[1:26:35] to be held November 5th, 2024, but I'd also like to limit that to a $16 million bond.

[1:26:41] Okay, I have a motion for $16 million to have a second, okay?

[1:26:47] Seeing none, motion felt like of a second.

[1:26:50] I'll take a second motion, please.

[1:26:52] I make a motion that we pass ordinance number 0, 2020-440, calling for a bond held on November 12th for public safety facilities and equipment not to exceed $20 million.

[1:27:06] I have a motion,

[1:27:09] sorry, November 5th.

[1:27:12] I have a motion to our second.

[1:27:13] Second.

[1:27:13] I have a question, Michael.

[1:27:16] I know the attorney is not here tonight.

[1:27:17] So this is a public hearing, a bond for public, city facilities and equipment, not a police

[1:27:23] station.

[1:27:24] She is how we're doing.

[1:27:25] We're doing this.

[1:27:25] We have.

[1:27:26] We can do fire, please.

[1:27:28] Well, there's some fire facilities.

[1:27:30] The remodel.

[1:27:30] Right.

[1:27:31] That's what I'm saying.

[1:27:31] That's why we're doing that.

[1:27:32] Okay.

[1:27:33] Okay.

[1:27:35] I don't want to make sure.

[1:27:38] Yeah.

[1:27:38] Okay.

[1:27:39] We're covered.

[1:27:39] We've talked about that with the attorney or whatever the block of any and we're doing it right legally all this stuff

[1:27:45] No, you can't mix you know stuff can stuff that's completely like you can't just do like all there's leftover money

[1:27:51] Let's do a park that has to be public and then Vicki my last question. I know you text me this as well

[1:27:56] But we'll get all the stuff to Chris Lens tomorrow and they're and I'll sign all the stuff tonight to call the election right that is correct

[1:28:01] We will let him know that we have voted and and what that consensus is and then Chris said

[1:28:06] We'll provide me with a Spanish translation so I can get the ballot language to Chris Lynch at the elections office on August 19th.

[1:28:14] Okay, perfect. All right, any more discussion? All right, please vote and we

[1:28:23] have them voted.

[1:28:35] Motion passes 6 is there. I'll thank you. Appreciate it. Next, please.

[1:28:39] Agenda autumn 7 adjournment. I'll take a motion adjourn. I make a motion read, adjourn.

[1:28:43] Second, please vote.

[1:28:49] Motion passes 6 is there. I'll thank you very much.

Aug 12, 2024 Special City Council

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