[0:13] Good evening, everyone. A hereby call to order the Tuesday, February 11th, 2025 meeting for the Final Act County Board of Supervisors. As is our tradition, we will have the presentation of colors, followed by a moment of silence, followed in turn by the pledge of allegiance.

[0:30] This evening, we have the military funeral honors team from American Legion post 75 presenting

[0:38] the colors.

[0:38] Please rise.

[1:46] Thank

[2:16] you, gentlemen.

[2:28] The roll call this evening.

[2:30] We have one moment here.

[2:39] We have 22 supervisors, 23 supervisors present,

[2:44] but supervisor stands and supervisor Simon being excused.

[2:54] First item on the agenda this evening is to approve the minutes of the January

[2:58] twenty-first twenty-five meeting of the Fondalac County Board. Is there a motion to approve?

[3:04] Motion by a supervisor, Fenrick, second by a supervisor, Herr Lash.

[3:09] Are there any errors or missions or corrections to the minutes?

[3:16] Okay, I don't see any. I'm moment and we'll move to the vote.

[3:25] We're ready.

[3:27] All those in favor, press your button. I oppose nay.

[3:47] Karen, yes or no? We good? Okay.

[3:53] Okay, the minutes have been approved.

[3:55] 22 in favor and non-opposed with supervisor Griffith abstaining.

[4:07] Our next item on the agenda is a report to the finance personnel and economic development

[4:12] committee on mileage, per DM and expenses for January 2025.

[4:18] Okay, I'll read the totals per DM, $1,890, mileage, $875 and 95 cents, $43 and 50 cents and expenses,

[4:28] and $2,800, $9.45 both claimed and allowed.

[4:34] Is there a motion to approve?

[4:36] Motion by supervisor Rickert, second by supervisor Conley.

[4:42] Are there any questions or comments about the report?

[4:49] I don't see any, so we'll move to the vote.

[4:50] All those in favor, press your button.

[4:52] I oppose name.

[5:02] The report has been approved 23 in favor and none opposed.

[5:09] Our next item is a resolution supporting the application

[5:12] for a broadband equity access and deployment grant by connect holding to LLC doing business

[5:21] as bright speed to support their project in Final Eccony. This is dated February 11th, 2025,

[5:28] and submitted by Finance Personnel and Economic Development Committee, and just to FYI,

[5:33] finance did meet prior to this meeting in all the resolutions that you will be seeing from finance

[5:39] We're all approved and committee tonight.

[5:42] Are this afternoon?

[5:43] Okay.

[5:44] Is there a motion to approve?

[5:45] Motion by supervisor Ryan second by supervisor Mike Will.

[5:52] Are there any questions or comments on the resolution?

[5:58] Questions or comments?

[6:00] I don't see any.

[6:01] We'll move to the vote.

[6:02] All those in favor, press your button.

[6:04] I oppose nay.

[6:09] The resolution has been approved.

[6:11] 23 in favor and none opposed.

[6:15] Our next resolution is supporting the

[6:18] application for broadband equity, access and deployment grant by Frontier North Incorporated

[6:26] doing business as Frontier Communications to support their project in Fondalak County.

[6:31] And this is also submitted by Finance Personnel and Economic Development Committee.

[6:37] Yes, they're motion to approve motion by Supervisor Van Heisen, second by Supervisor

[6:44] And any questions or comments on this resolution?

[6:51] Okay, I don't see any.

[6:52] So we'll write to the vote.

[6:53] All those in favor, press your button.

[6:55] I oppose nay.

[7:00] Resolution has been approved.

[7:01] 23 in favor and none opposed.

[7:05] Our next resolution is authorizing the property officials to execute

[7:09] a lease agreement with the Wisconsin State Senate for the office of

[7:14] Wisconsin State Senator Daniel Fein for fields office space within

[7:19] the Final Act County campus, effective March 1st, 2025.

[7:25] The fiscal note states that we are

[7:26] amending the Final Act County campus adopted 2025.

[8:10] Next

[8:14] resolution is adjusting the

[8:16] Schedule for the Food Safety and Recreational Licensing Program, operated by the Funnel Act

[8:22] County Health Department, effective April 1, 2025.

[8:27] Okay, is there a motion to approve?

[8:29] Motion by Supervisor Depperman, second by Supervisor Conley.

[8:37] Any other any?

[8:38] I'm sorry.

[8:40] Supervisor Hayes.

[8:42] A question about the resolution and the chart that goes with it, it's not clear to

[8:48] the chart has various percentages in it, so it's not clear to me which of those

[8:53] columns are the fees that will be in. Okay, force. You're, Kim, you would you

[9:01] mind coming up and explaining that just a little bit if you don't mind.

[9:14] Thanks,

[9:15] Kim.

[9:21] Question again? Yes, in the resolution, it doesn't choose from any of, there's a

[9:29] And the chart, yes, that goes from like 0 to 5%, so which of those columns are the fees?

[9:36] It's not clear to me what the fees will actually be.

[9:39] So right now, 2024 to 2025, the current fees is in the zero,

[9:47] percent, like if we didn't increase it for this next year, you would see those, those would be the fees.

[9:53] And so if you go to the one through 5%, that would be the projected fee increase, and that would be overall for all of our establishments within our entire program.

[10:04] Okay, so the 5% column is what the new fees will be.

[10:07] Could be if we choose the 5%.

[10:10] So basically what the resolution is saying is it's giving us an ability to choose from zero to 5%.

[10:16] Based on the need of the program.

[10:18] Okay, I think in the past we had to set fee that came in, right?

[10:21] every year so we in the past five years ago in 2020 January I brought this same resolution to the board

[10:29] which gave us this same ability for five years and so now that resolution is over and now I'm

[10:37] asking to do the same thing I've done for the last five years. Okay great thank you so much.

[10:41] You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments?

[10:49] Okay I don't see any thanks Kim.

[10:51] We'll move to the vote then. All those in favor, press your button. I have posed

[10:55] name.

[11:03] Resolution has been approved. 23 in favor and none opposed.

[11:09] We have a resolution allocating $920,000 received from the City of Fondalac for closure

[11:17] of tax increment district. Ted. Number 10. It's a various departmental budgets.

[11:24] Okay, the fiscal note states that we are

[11:27] amending the adopted 2025 Fondalac County budget.

[11:31] Therefore, this resolution requires the approval of

[11:33] at least two thirds of the members elect of the county board.

[11:37] 920,000 dollars received from the closure of

[11:40] Ted district number 10 was received,

[11:43] receded against the 2024 budget.

[11:46] This was unanticipated in the 2024 adopted Fondalac County

[11:50] budget, resulting in a surplus at year end of 2024.

[11:55] At the close of 2024, the surplus will be carried over to the 2025 budget to fund continued

[12:01] services with ITRA and the renovations of the veterans park.

[12:06] Is there a motion to approve?

[12:08] Motion by supervisor, streeter, second by supervisor Ryan.

[12:15] Okay, are there any questions or comments on this resolution?

[12:24] I have a few things.

[12:29] First of all, the money for the Veterans Park.

[12:33] We were going to try to raise money for that,

[12:36] but I'm just wondering why we are applying that amount of money to Veterans Park.

[12:43] The other part of the resolution is the,

[12:48] I think it's for Oracle, right?

[12:51] So, I'm wondering why we keep spending so much money on Oracle and how much more money

[12:57] are we planning to spend on it and what is the overall amount we've already spent on Oracle?

[13:04] And then the other part, the other thing that I want to know is why are the two resolutions

[13:09] together?

[13:10] I know the funding's coming from the same place, so that makes sense, but I just feel like putting

[13:17] something on with something that that has to do with veterans, makes people feel pressured

[13:22] and devoting for something that maybe they don't want to vote for.

[13:28] Okay, Mr. Kaufman, would you care to address that?

[13:31] I'll, yeah, if I could, I'll have Scott also come talk about the Oracle project itself.

[13:36] The procedure, there's nothing wrong with putting these items in the resolution itself.

[13:43] finance had a concern about it that could have addressed it, but they chose to vote out

[13:47] in the resolution together.

[13:50] The veterans park among the estimates we now have are of course to probably a million,

[13:55] just an over a million.

[13:57] It originally was anticipated to be about $1.8 million, and it came in just roughly $1 million.

[14:04] We met with different donors.

[14:06] We did tell them at that time we had $100,000 for the project.

[14:11] knowing there was going to cost, you know, a million or more part of the issue we ran into,

[14:16] which was expected, was to fit into the community that if we're going to ask major donors

[14:21] to come in that there had to be a greater participation from the county in the project.

[14:26] Not just a hundred thousand dollars towards this with it.

[14:32] So this was unexpected, fun to we thought this was a great opportunity now to go ahead and increase

[14:38] our contribution towards the project, which would be roughly around 450,000, a part of this

[14:44] already from donations we've received, now we have the ability to go back and go to the

[14:49] donors, and now let's say for the remaining funds to try and close off the remaining balance

[14:55] of our own four to five and a thousand else we'll need to bring it to the project up and going

[14:59] this year.

[15:02] If for some reason, the project falls through, because we lack a funding, I would anticipate we would come back with a go to a

[15:10] reall case of those funds out into the general fund. We're also wherever somebody feels that it should go to at that time.

[15:19] Thank you Scott, you want to come up and address the question about Oracle and the continued funding for that?

[15:35] The essence or the what you're looking at is an asset.

[15:39] We don't know exactly how much we're going to spend of that.

[15:42] It's going to be kind of on a as needed basis.

[15:47] Better now.

[15:48] I'll speak in a little bit.

[15:49] So it'll kind of be on a as needed basis.

[15:52] But there are a couple modules that we haven't even implemented yet.

[15:56] There's a recruiting module, there's also an EPM module, and you got to understand, we

[16:02] turned this product up in less than nine months, okay?

[16:05] We spent two years with a different vendor, okay?

[16:08] We essentially took nothing out of that, okay?

[16:10] Because that obviously was a failed environment implementation, and we turned this up in nine

[16:14] months.

[16:15] So in nine months, we configured this entire system, right?

[16:19] That isn't, that was a tremendous lift by our implemented to get that done in nine months,

[16:24] understand that.

[16:24] So now what we have is, like I said, we have a live system, it's working well, however

[16:31] there are certain pieces, it's configured, but there are certain pieces for this handoff

[16:35] to happen, where obviously now our staff is in charge of these modules.

[16:41] Now we're running the modules, but there's going to be a lot of knowledge transfer that's going

[16:45] to happen over the next few years.

[16:48] So with adding implementation, whether it was the first one or the second implementer

[16:54] that we went with. There was always going to be probably some level of managed services. That's

[16:58] just the nature of IT period. Okay. We use managed services for a lot of different things where

[17:03] we want extra expertise. When you look at the managed services, it's a combination of services

[17:09] in the U.S. and some are off-prem. Okay. The off-prem services can vary anywhere from $37 to $40

[17:16] an hour. Okay. I can't hire employees with expertise for that price point. Okay. So there will always

[17:22] be a use case for managed services. It's just more cost-effective in some cases, the use

[17:28] managed services for certain things. And like I said, there are a couple modules. The

[17:35] PM module, there's also the HR recruiting module. We just didn't even have time to look

[17:39] at those modules. The PM module is one even going to play, if we decide to implement

[17:43] until 2016 because it will be for the two, I'm sorry, 2006 budget. So I was our plan

[17:49] to always kick off the implementation of that module

[17:52] and spring of this year.

[17:54] So today we can use it for the budget planning process

[17:57] so that we can go live with it in 20th.

[17:59] If we decide to use it.

[18:02] I mean, it seems like Oracle's becoming

[18:04] like the school referendums in Fondalek.

[18:08] How much was the failed implementation?

[18:12] How much total was that?

[18:15] Approximately around 4 million.

[18:18] Now, I mean, to clarify, yeah, go ahead Scott, yeah.

[18:22] I do want to tell you what the cost of Oracle is, right?

[18:24] The cost of Oracle that we locked in for a five-year period was $280,000,000.

[18:30] Okay? That's not a huge cost.

[18:33] Okay.

[18:33] Our Microsoft bill that we pay on an annual basis is in excess of $300,000.

[18:39] You know, less than $300,000 for what Oracle is is actually a very cost-effect product.

[18:47] But it was 4 million dollars that we wasted, basically.

[18:53] Oracle came with to us with a vendor, a vendor for implementation.

[18:59] We really didn't have a lot of control over that.

[19:02] We took the vendor that Oracle came as a preferred vendor.

[19:05] We went with it.

[19:07] Obviously two years into the process, we knew things weren't looking well.

[19:11] We brought in some extra eyes to look at the situation.

[19:13] And at certain point, we pull the plug and we will with the different implementer and and and and and in Brian's defense and I tears offensive that an incredible job to get us live, they got us, you know, you know, so much further than we would have been with CRC here, okay, and the two and and the two plus years that's here, CRC to head on the project, they did it in nine months and they got us live with a better implementation, it's the same product right it is it's the same product.

[19:42] It's all in the configuration, okay?

[19:46] All in the interfaces that you built into the product

[19:48] with all of our different vendors that we have.

[19:51] There's a tremendous amount

[19:53] into the implementation and getting it right.

[19:59] That's all I have.

[20:00] I'm just hoping that going forward,

[20:03] this isn't going to keep happening

[20:04] and that we aren't going to keep sticking money into this.

[20:07] And then...

[20:08] We'll always be paid as a SaaS product.

[20:12] We'll always be paying for the subscription, right?

[20:14] That will never go away, and like I said, 300 less than 300K is not a big cost, but from a managed services perspective, we will use it as needed, right?

[20:24] We'll use it when it makes sense, economically, for the colony to do so.

[20:30] It's a coffman, you think?

[20:31] Yeah, on as well.

[20:33] If I could just want to clarify a couple things on that.

[20:35] I should have concerned that survivors are there in hands, but I think just some background needs to be clarified.

[20:40] One, first of all, you know, the total bill, actually, if I go to what we contract with

[20:47] your Cedarfore was a certain amount, I think roughly about $6 million, when we see failed

[20:54] with Cedar Cedar, it failed in the sense that they didn't fully implement the product that

[20:58] we were told to get, but they did complete certain work, though.

[21:03] That work we wrote a billed off of with Iteria, to point where I went to Iteria came under the

[21:08] sure they're quote to us, didn't cost us any more than what the county board already approved

[21:13] for Sierra Cedar. So that was still active. We were still within what was approved to be done

[21:19] with it. I don't like the idea that we had to switch, but I made the decision to switch because

[21:26] I took a look at this product, what was going on, I realized if we had to stay with Sierra Cedar,

[21:30] it would have cost us a lot more money. Because the way they operated, the way they functioned

[21:36] in their communications with us, it just was not going to work out, so I'm very thankful to have

[21:42] I tour you there, with the room number two that, you know, although it's all tax money,

[21:48] the majority of the bill has been paid by our perfons. The county tax dollars itself,

[21:54] your actually came out to, I think, roughly around 2 million. The rest would pay for the

[21:57] ARPA funds itself on it. Ultimately, though, the reason why we have to pay so much money is because

[22:03] We had an outdated system that we should have been updating years ago.

[22:08] It's that we dragged our feet as a county and didn't update our system as it moved along.

[22:13] And a lot of it took time to try and convert all data into a brand new system.

[22:18] So that's where a lot of the time element came in was just having to spend time to do all that conversion

[22:23] with regard to it.

[22:25] So lesson learned.

[22:26] But now as a county board in the county, we've been trying to be very forward.

[22:30] To make sure that we don't have these problems going on, that we're staying up to date. They're by reducing some of our rover costly around, but yes, this is going to be a cause that's going to be ongoing, only with regard to the maintenance of the program itself. That's just an expense we're going to have to curl like every other particular program that has its feet to it every year on it. So if we want us to update with our computer systems in our program, I mean, it's just a cause we're going to expect as operational expense.

[22:57] And lastly, I just want to say, going forward, I am hoping that we don't tack on things that

[23:03] have to do with veterans or maybe our sheriff's department with things like or a co.

[23:10] I just think the two should be separate.

[23:13] And I was going to make a motion to separate those resolutions.

[23:17] I'm not going to do that, but if you're going forward, we really need to do that.

[23:23] Okay, thank you, supervisor Hayes.

[23:26] I have.

[23:27] My first question I have a couple questions.

[23:29] My first question is, what is the origin of this Ted money?

[23:35] And have we gotten it?

[23:36] I don't think we've gotten this since I've been on the board.

[23:39] How does it come to the county?

[23:41] And if we weren't going to allocate it to these two things,

[23:47] where would it go?

[23:51] I guess hang out a second.

[23:52] They're debating who should answer it.

[23:57] I can't answer the origin of that, Erin, can handle that because she handles the Tid.

[24:02] But we do get Tid's that clothes every year.

[24:05] So there was another 140,000 that we got in 24 on top of this 1920.

[24:11] And then there's been other years.

[24:12] And what happens at the year end?

[24:13] Because that just goes to 90 part revenue.

[24:15] It just rolls back to the general fund.

[24:17] Usually on the carryover at the end of the year.

[24:19] So it just goes into the general fund and then it'll either go into the salary contingency fund.

[24:23] However, with the surplus that we have, with executive copy, we decide what contingencies and

[24:30] where we're going to put it in the general fund, it's just kind of like a surplus.

[24:37] Aaron, would you like to address where the Tid started from?

[24:40] Well, it's a city of Fondalac Tid, number 10 that closed.

[24:44] And when it closes, then we get that text incremental funding from the lifespan of the

[24:48] Tid.

[24:49] There are other Tids that are open throughout the city of Fondalac, as well as the other

[24:52] municipalities and to usually open for like 30, 40 years. But occasionally when they close,

[24:58] then we get that tax increment back from them. Okay, thank you. The my other common

[25:04] has to do with the Veterans Park. First of all, I would have like to see this go to the

[25:11] year's committee as well because the Veterans Park is under the year's committee's jurisdiction.

[25:17] You know, when we started on this Veterans Park, we were told first of all that was all going to be raised

[25:22] than we gave 100,000 as seed money.

[25:26] Now we're uping it to 400,000 to be very honest.

[25:31] I would like to see, you know,

[25:34] I'm not real clear on how the fundraising has gone here.

[25:36] I think there are a lot of people in this community

[25:38] who would give money if we had a formal fundraising effort.

[25:43] I don't even know where the information is on that.

[25:46] And the other thing is, I just feel like helping our veterans

[25:52] maybe some housing for homeless veterans would be a higher priority for me and

[25:58] I agree with Angela. I think this should have come in separately. So I'm in a vote no one this resolution. Thank you

[26:06] Surprise or Mike. Well, thank you. I guess I want to follow up on some of the tip questions

[26:11] The 920,000 dollars

[26:15] What was the period was that was that for the whole

[26:19] I guess one of the close, there's not asked is because that's it was only six months.

[26:24] So next year we were expecting 1.8 million in revenue from that taxing to health.

[26:32] I guess I'd like to do a little bit more about it.

[26:37] I don't recall when the Ted 10 was open.

[26:39] It's one of the earlier tits that the city had.

[26:41] So it's not a six month tid or two year tid.

[26:44] I mean, they're usually open for a long period of time, so they can do the development within the district.

[26:52] Usually, like, like, like, we had a Ted disclose, and the village keeps all that money until that tip is closed.

[27:01] And after that point, it goes to the five separate taxing, so that 920 to me would be the

[27:14] I understand it did. Yes, that that's correct. Maybe I'm not

[27:19] Miss or maybe I'm not understanding, but that was for the life of the

[27:23] Tid for Fondalac County's portion.

[27:28] Again, I don't understand that

[27:30] because you don't get that credit back to my knowledge. You, it's, once it's

[27:36] turned back over to the Tid's closed. Right.

[27:41] Yes, I'm, I'm sorry. I'm not

[27:43] okay. I guess I could look into it further, but, um, right. That's all we will

[27:47] different that did it's done. You'll get the tax money every year for going forward.

[27:52] Yeah, sorry. Yes. Yes. We will. Now it's back on the tax roll. It's sort of

[27:56] late. It's on the tax roll. The 920 should have been for F of the kid clothes until

[28:02] they sent you a check. So I guess I just want to know what that would be. That was we would

[28:07] be from when the tip open. That's from the when the tip open to the time of clothes. Yes.

[28:12] What they've accumulated that did. Okay. Well, we'll do a little more

[28:17] As long as it's not relevant to what we're voting on here, we can do digging out.

[28:23] Supervisor Yaki?

[28:26] I just want to clarify about Oracle because it was started before I was on the county board.

[28:30] And I was wondering when did the project start?

[28:34] And also, I just want to clarify that it was only 200 million that the taxpayer put towards this.

[28:40] Thanks.

[28:42] You want to?

[28:44] Is it only $2 million? And then this, you know, this, if it passes.

[28:49] Mr. Coffman, you want to address both of those if you don't mind?

[28:54] The local project started when I was in a county board.

[28:57] I think this, if I recall Eric correct that, I think there was on 2020.

[29:01] I remember coming to the Finance Committee and then coming to county board.

[29:06] I think there was on 2020.

[29:09] On 2021, there's one that actually had started through Sierra Cedar.

[29:11] And then in 23,

[29:16] 24, 23, as I said when we start to see more problems with Sarah Cedar and then ultimately a terminated Sarah Cedar.

[29:23] As far as the dollar amount of the amount built so far of the contract amount, the county itself has paid, I believe, around $2,000,000.

[29:32] The rest was our preference.

[29:35] That answers your question.

[29:37] Yes, thank you.

[29:38] Okay, I'm sorry, Tammy, did you wish to comment?

[29:45] No? Okay.

[29:49] Sufrazer Griffith.

[29:51] Thank you.

[29:52] Yeah, I would like to see I really appreciate the comments

[29:55] that Supervisor Learning and Supervisor Hayes made about both.

[30:00] What would have been better, I think, about separating these two things and with proposal about the veterans park going through the ears committee.

[30:10] I think sometimes we don't go through the right committees of jurisdiction, sometimes there's several, and I appreciate that it's important to get input from several different committees sometimes.

[30:20] I'm also going to vote against this really for that reason, not because I'm fundamentally

[30:25] opposed to what the resolution is about, but I just think we need to be more attentive

[30:30] to making sure that the committees of jurisdiction get a chance to weigh in.

[30:34] And I think it would have been really worthwhile even to have possibly the Health and

[30:39] Human Services Committee weigh in because we also oversee the veterans affairs, excuse me,

[30:46] the Health and Human Development Committee.

[30:47] And I think it would be really interesting to have a conversation where we can talk with veteran service officer

[30:53] and these other committees about what really are the priorities, what would be most valuable and most appreciated by veterans.

[31:00] I don't think we really considered other options.

[31:03] I know this is an important project for veterans and I'm not against it, but I don't feel like we weighed it with other things as we might have.

[31:14] Any other questions or comments?

[31:19] Questions or comments?

[31:20] I don't see any.

[31:21] We'll move to the vote.

[31:22] All those in favor.

[31:22] Pressure button aye.

[31:24] Opposed nay.

[31:35] Resolution has been approved.

[31:36] Nineteen in favor.

[31:38] And four polls.

[31:39] What's the surprise of Griffith.

[31:41] Urlash brought and haze in opposition.

[31:55] Our next resolution is submitted by UW Extension Education,

[31:59] Agriculture and Recreation Committee.

[32:02] Resolution adopting the 2025 through

[32:05] 29 Comprehensive Outdoor Recreation Plan for Fondola County.

[32:11] Okay, is there a motion to approve?

[32:13] Motion by supervisor Smith, second by supervisor Brawl.

[32:19] Are there any questions or comments on the resolution?

[32:26] Questions or comments?

[32:30] I don't see any, so we'll move right to the vote.

[32:32] All those in favor, pressure button, aye.

[32:34] Opposed, nay.

[32:54] We did so.

[32:56] Are you, yes?

[33:01] There we go.

[33:04] Okay.

[33:04] The resolution has been approved 24 in favor,

[33:07] and none of Paul's supervisor Simon did join us.

[33:10] So he's the extribal person.

[33:20] Okay, before we get going on the presentation here,

[33:23] which is the next item on the agenda.

[33:26] Like to clarify a few things,

[33:29] kind of explain how we got here,

[33:31] introduce the board members, things like that.

[33:34] So first of all, thanks for everybody

[33:37] for coming to hear this.

[33:38] This is obviously a long time in the making

[33:42] from a presentation standpoint.

[33:46] We back on June 18th, I had submitted nine names

[33:54] for consideration for ad hoc committee.

[33:58] And they were approved by the members of this board,

[34:00] the committee's system consisted of five county board members

[34:04] and four members of the public.

[34:06] at this time I'd like to acknowledge those people that served on the committee.

[34:13] I know we know board members who you are, but people in the public don't.

[34:18] So as I announce you either please rise or call attention to yourself,

[34:22] so we can we know who you are.

[34:25] First I'd like to start with Dr. George Coots.

[34:28] On the back he served as chairman of the board.

[34:31] Or the ad hoc committee, I'm safe, I should say.

[34:34] Then we have supervisor Dean Will, he served as Vice Chair, and then we have supervisor Donbrook,

[34:46] and we have supervisor Griffith, supervisor Van Heisen, supervisor Mike Will, I'm sorry, chief deputy Kevin Galski,

[34:58] believe he stepped out, okay? Mr. Mark Hanchel and Mr. Sam Meyer. Thanks everybody for

[35:11] serving on the committee. The expectations of this committee were to have a

[35:16] transparency to the public throughout this process. All of the meetings were

[35:21] open to the public with the exception of the jail tours. The committee was asked to

[35:26] determine if a new jail was needed, and the logistics of what a new jail might be, and

[35:34] which would include some of the costs.

[35:37] The committee was also asked to make a recommendation to the county board, and the county

[35:42] executive at the end of their process is what ultimately brings us here this evening.

[35:48] This process started back on July 23rd.

[35:51] committee attended two jail tours, one in Final Act, one in Green Lake, and also seven meetings.

[36:00] The meetings concluded on December 19th, which is when they decided to conclude their meetings

[36:05] and make their recommendation to the board.

[36:08] This evening, Kurt Burner from Samuel's group will be leading the presentation.

[36:14] My plan is that we're going to allow questions during the presentation, but because this is an official county board meeting, questions are going to be limited to county board members.

[36:29] And the questions we're going to handle, just like we do anything else, please press your button.

[36:35] We'll get you in the queue and we'll answer them accordingly.

[36:38] Kurt can probably reiterate this, when he comes up here, we're going to try and hold some

[36:43] questions until we get a portion of the way through this because a lot of times the questions

[36:48] may be answered in subsequent slides. And Kurt can decide that. So Kurt, would you mind

[36:53] coming up and starting the presentation?

[37:01] This is our clicker.

[37:02] That is your clicker and it even works. And you're going to have to be careful to speak directly

[37:07] into the mic.

[37:08] So I'll get after noon, good evening everyone, my name is Kirk Bernard from the Samuel's

[37:14] group.

[37:15] Cory, you want to introduce yourself?

[37:16] Cory Blair with Venture Architects, and we have Kyle and Kyle with Venture Architects.

[37:27] So you're going to be here a while.

[37:30] I think you've probably printed out the slides. As the Chairman had talked about, we worked with the ad hoc committee for several months.

[37:40] Thank you all for your time putting up with us in really the goal of that process was to walk them through from overall jail general functions to existing conditions and into some options that we're going to explore with you here tonight.

[37:58] So with that said, we've got our introductions here, we've explained our names, we'll tell you a little bit about why we're even here.

[38:09] My background is a construction manager that has been working with many counties throughout the Midwest to be able to work on their projects from the very beginning,

[38:20] meaning the discussion of a need for a project, the planning, the overall operation and function

[38:28] of that project and the share of his and had asked me to come in and assist them with their

[38:34] jail knowing that you guys have been talking about that for several years. There's a component of

[38:39] that that we need to start to put together some preliminary drawings, some concepts in order to

[38:45] engage those, I engage the services of venture.

[38:49] So do you want to tell a little bit about your company?

[38:52] So venture architects has been business for over 40 years.

[38:55] We specialize in law enforcement, correctional, and justice facilities.

[39:00] We're part of a larger firm that has over 100 people and been in business for over 100 years.

[39:09] So with that said, as we start to talk about the jail, we start to talk about jail functions.

[39:13] we're bringing experience from other things that counties have done, the mistakes that they've

[39:19] made, the successes that they've made, and we're going to talk about a lot of that here tonight

[39:24] in regards to some of the recommendations, some of the advisements that we're discussed with the

[39:30] committee and our goal is by the end of this presentation here tonight. You'll know more about

[39:36] Then you did it at the beginning of the project the evening tonight and you'll know more about your jail specifically.

[39:44] So general jail concepts, we toured the ad hoc committee through your existing jail,

[39:52] and then we took them to Greenlight County.

[39:55] And when we toured Greenlight County, we were able to look at two completely different elements in regards to jail.

[40:00] So, I've put some slides together for the main purpose of being able to talk to you about

[40:07] geo-general concepts, because most taxpayers know where the jail is within their community,

[40:15] but they've never been in jail. And that's usually a good thing, right? That you haven't been

[40:21] in jail. And most people will drive by a jail and they'll say, hey, it looks good to me.

[40:30] So our goal today is to talk to you a little bit about jail and their concepts.

[40:36] So this first diagram here represents what we call a linear jail.

[40:41] If you look at the light blue area that's on that schematic,

[40:46] it's really a central corridor that runs from one end of the building to the other.

[40:50] And on each side of that corridor there are jail cells.

[40:53] and there are day rooms for those jail cells.

[40:58] The description of linear is that it is a line.

[41:01] It is a line of cells.

[41:04] When you go across the state of Wisconsin

[41:06] in the builds of the 50s, the 60s, the 70s,

[41:10] and the 80s, you would find a majority

[41:13] if not all were linear jails.

[41:16] In the 90s, a new concept came on board

[41:19] and we'll talk about that here in a minute.

[41:20] But this linear jail has many issues associated with it operationally.

[41:27] If you look at the starred areas that are on that diagram,

[41:32] those starred areas represent a correctional officer's post,

[41:36] meaning that a staff member needs to be there 24-7

[41:40] in regards to the operation of that jail.

[41:43] The thing about a linear jail is that there are no sight lines

[41:46] for the individual that is in the correctional officer's post or master control to be able to see into the derooms or into the cells.

[41:57] The other complication is that the flow or the movement of that correctional officer, the rovers that you will see the two start elements on the outside,

[42:06] is really limited to that linear component and that there is no sightlines in regards to when they're interacting or when they're going into those deroom components.

[42:16] The model that's laid out here is if we work from left to right that pink box that's on the left hand side would represent your

[42:22] vehicle Sally port. So in the process of an arrest, the arresting officer would bring their squad into that vehicle

[42:29] Sally port and at that point then they take that individual that's under arrest and they would bring them into the green area,

[42:36] which would be your intake or your booking area. The booking area really ties into the passing of the

[42:45] of the resting officer to the correctional officer.

[42:50] Your jail does not have a pre-book area.

[42:53] You walk right into a booking area

[42:55] and we'll get into some of those components

[42:57] that are tied into that.

[42:58] But obviously, this booking area,

[43:00] where you're going to hear us refer to receiving cells,

[43:03] those cells that are inside of that green area,

[43:05] those boxes that are each side are called receiving cells.

[43:09] And the intent for those receiving cells

[43:10] is when a fresh to rest comes in

[43:13] and when that correctional officer takes that individual they place them into that receiving

[43:18] self or observation. The observation includes a classification process that we're going to talk about here

[43:23] tonight. That receiving area becomes very important in regards to proper management of your

[43:30] population. After the observation is done and after the classification has been done and after

[43:36] the initial hearings have been taken place and it's identified that that individual has to go into

[43:41] general population, then those individuals will move into that general population component

[43:47] back into that blue area. So it's a different area of the population, but that's the flow

[43:53] in regards to what that looks like from a jail component from the vehicle salary port actually

[43:57] into the housing space. This next concept that you're going to see here is a modular design.

[44:04] It's really the pod component is that octagon or that trapezoid shaped element that's in there.

[44:14] You will see multiple different arrangements of this, but the really the component that ties around a modular design is a sightlines.

[44:22] You see that center star that's in the middle, that's where the correctional officer stays and they're able to see into each one of those day rooms and they're able to see into each one of those cells.

[44:33] You do not have a pod design here.

[44:37] We'll talk about that when we get into your existing conditions.

[44:40] So it becomes very staff inefficient.

[44:44] You'll see this one here as efficient.

[44:46] We've got a day room around there that they're able to maneuver around.

[44:50] They're still within the site line of that correctional officer.

[44:53] The safety is increased there because they're able to see all the interactions.

[44:57] If there was something that was going to happen between in and in.

[45:00] And that correctional officer, it's in a direct line of sight for that correctional officer that's in that pod control.

[45:07] This one here represents that there is a pre-book area. That pre-book area is a space before that correctional officer will actually bring them into the booking area.

[45:17] It's a space that you currently do not have. It's a space that is very important in regards to the report writing, the separation between that booking space and that pre-booking area.

[45:29] So the difference is between the two of them you can see the concepts that are tied back

[45:33] into that.

[45:34] The configuration is still there.

[45:36] The flow goes from the Sally port into the pre-book, into the booking, into the housing

[45:41] unit.

[45:42] The jail portion, the component that's a linear versus paugillers, where you really start

[45:47] to see the differences in the configuration.

[45:51] This gives you an idea of that pod concept.

[45:54] So, typically, you will see the in order to be very staff efficient that individual that sits in that center correctional officers spot there.

[46:04] You can see the sight lines that we represented.

[46:07] They are actually able to monitor two floors.

[46:10] So, it is a two-story housing unit so that one individual is able to look at two floors.

[46:15] All the mollians, all of the window frames that are in there are aligned so that while that correctional officer is sitting at that desk,

[46:22] they're able to see the upper level and they're able to see the lower level.

[46:26] So what you did is in that linear jail when you only had one floor

[46:29] and you tie into those elements, you start to see the difference between those of where you can

[46:34] or cannot see the sightlines that are tied back into that. You still have the rover that's there

[46:39] and the rover is able to deal with this. So this pod design that's here and those sightlines

[46:44] enhances your security and your safety for your correctional officers, different than the linear

[46:50] jail, it is less labor-intensive in regards to the components that are tied into that.

[46:59] This model here represents the step from a jail-to-a-justice center and we're going to talk

[47:04] about the key component and the connection to your courts.

[47:08] So in this model, you'll still see that the pod is there, the rectangular portion that

[47:13] is added on the right side is a diagram that identifies a couple of key safety and security

[47:19] elements that are essential, that red line that connects between the housing unit into that

[47:26] court representation is a secure corridor. It is to go from your housing unit into the

[47:32] holding cells that would be adjacent to your court space. Nobody crosses that. It is an extension

[47:38] of the jail. So when you start to build that and you put that within a facility, it starts to complicate

[47:44] What that does for traffic flow because no one is to be in there other than a correctional officer and the inmate that then goes for their court hearing

[47:54] It's an important element and we'll talk about that when we get into some of the reporting that we got here on this campus in regards to some of the safety and security issues that you have in regards to getting your inmates from the housing unit over to courts

[48:11] This year's a model and it you'll probably see it better in your

[48:16] diagrams, but the lower level here, the most efficient designs that we've been a part of is

[48:22] where you have the housing unit and the holding cells for the jail on a lower level and you

[48:29] have the courts on an upper level. So that the inmate movement is through a very short court

[48:35] or that takes them up an elevator into two holding cells or multiple holding cells that can then

[48:40] into the courtroom spaces.

[48:43] The upper floor represents multiple courtrooms that would be there.

[48:46] You'll see that red area shows the inmate movement.

[48:49] They would take them from the jail space on the first floor up to the court space on the upper floor.

[48:56] And holding cells are between both of those courtrooms.

[48:59] And it allows for that movement to be safe and secure.

[49:02] No one else is going to be utilizing that.

[49:05] Those elevators are managed by jail control by master control.

[49:11] This diagram represents that in the model that is the safest and the most secure, the top

[49:19] of it presents the public side of your courtroom.

[49:23] The public side of that courtroom would be your public corridors.

[49:26] It would be the conference rooms where attorneys will meet with their clients prior to coming

[49:31] into the courtroom.

[49:31] The center part of that portion is actually the courtroom.

[49:35] The center portion there that shows where the correctional officer in the detainee are,

[49:40] with the elevator coming into that space and the bottom side of that corridor represents the

[49:45] judges, chambers, and the judges staff. In the safest model, in the most secure model,

[49:51] the only place that all three parties meet is in the courtroom. There is no crossing of paths,

[49:59] there is no connection in regards to those elements. That's the model that is the safest and the most secure.

[50:07] A bed count in classification, one of the things over the course of time that we've worked

[50:14] with counties is classification has become a topic and an element in regards to how

[50:21] our people properly classified and then how are they housed.

[50:26] So we're showing a representation of the movement here of individuals coming into this

[50:32] housing unit.

[50:34] This housing unit is a pod, and if you see around the pod or on the perimeter, you see individual jail cells, and those individual jail cells are then connected to a day room.

[50:45] The day room that's tied to those jail cells is one classification.

[50:51] So the individuals that are in that day room have to be the same classification.

[50:55] In 2014, the DOC changed the code in regards to classification and they required an objective classification process by the county.

[51:06] There are many things that go into that classification process.

[51:11] When an individual is under arrest in their broad-end,

[51:14] in the correctional officer starts to go through their observation and classification,

[51:18] there's multiple things that go into that.

[51:20] The prior conduct of that individual if they have a history of law issues comes into play.

[51:29] It can come into the impact of what they're there for.

[51:33] We have worked with counties that have had four or five individuals arrested under the same incident.

[51:38] They may have been a part of the same crime, but they cannot be housed together.

[51:44] For obvious reasons, you can't have them all camping out in the day room talking to one another about what's going on.

[51:50] So what that does is it starts to complicate your classification process.

[51:55] The reason that I bring up classification is that it used to be about bed count.

[52:01] Do we have too many people in our jail versus the number of beds that we're there?

[52:06] And that's still an element.

[52:08] But the element that is really complicating things for counties throughout the state of

[52:12] Wisconsin is, do we have the correct bed count in enough smaller areas that we can properly

[52:19] classify them. If you go back and you look at jails that were built in the 80s and 90s, there

[52:26] were large dorms that were constructed.

[52:30] The dorms were large areas, were bunks were put in place, and they could be anywhere from 10, 12, 14,

[52:36] I've seen them up to 40 bed dorms. And it's a cheap space to build. It would be like if we built this

[52:41] great big room for all of us, we do with one bathroom and one shower for all of us to deal with. And

[52:47] then we all had our bunks. It's a cheap space. It's warehousing inmates. The problem is is that the classification

[52:54] and tie to that, is that if I have a dorm of 40 hits in there, one individual can upset

[53:00] the upset that entire number of beds that are in there.

[53:03] So if I am somebody that sits in there and I'm a classification and nobody else has my

[53:08] classification, but that's the only place that the correctional officers have to park you.

[53:12] You've just consumed 39 other beds.

[53:15] So it has really changed the way that jails have to manage their population with the issues

[53:23] associated with the buildings in which they currently are housed.

[53:27] So we're going to talk a little bit about classification when we get in to some of those elements.

[53:32] So I will pause here. This was one of those areas. Are there questions that you have in regards

[53:38] to those of general jail concepts?

[53:45] Yes.

[53:47] Building a linear facility, a different price? Is it more

[53:57] It's a great question, I would say that it's probably about the same price in regards to building in construction, but operating it is more expensive.

[54:08] So the bricks and mortar component, because a lot of that is driven by DOC standards.

[54:13] So we can't change the size of the cell. We can't change the size of the day rooms. Those elements that are tied into that are already driven or required by code.

[54:23] So, the square footage when we get into space programming doesn't really differentiate between them.

[54:29] So, there's not a big variance between the price of linear and modular.

[54:33] Thank you.

[54:35] Other questions?

[54:36] Supervisor Brawl.

[54:37] Just as a reminder, we want to use our key, because we got to turn your mic on.

[54:41] So, if you just raise hands, that doesn't work for us back here.

[54:45] So, supervisor Brawl.

[54:46] Thank you.

[54:47] So, you showed us a linear model in a modular model, are there other styles or models of

[54:52] Jails that are designed?

[54:54] No, I mean, you what you'll see is your is really isn't like a great big line, yours is like a winding

[55:01] snake that's a line, right? So it's essentially a corridor that continues to do this and if you

[55:06] walk down the corridor and there's a cell here, there's cell here that's a linear jail. It may not

[55:11] look like a line, but when you're stacking jails cells on each side of the corridor, it's a linear

[55:17] jail. So to answer question, there are different configurations, but having that master control

[55:23] that is on one side and viewing it would separate the two of them as a better explanation.

[55:28] Okay. And then I know there's a number of counties in Wisconsin that have been building

[55:32] jails recently. Have they been all going with this modular style? Okay.

[55:37] And then the other question that came to mind, I don't know maybe you're going to get this later,

[55:41] but you talked a lot about the Justice Center and the different configurations there. Do you know

[55:46] what the cost is to construct a justice center versus

[55:50] cost of state transporting inmates from one place, from a jail to the.

[55:55] We got all those details coming up.

[55:57] Okay.

[55:58] Wonderful.

[55:58] Thank you.

[55:59] Okay.

[55:59] So, Reservoir, Rolesh.

[56:01] So, with the modular model, we're talking about a less staff intensive.

[56:06] Does that mean that we're going to be reducing jail staffing?

[56:09] And that's necessarily.

[56:11] So, what you're running into right now, and we'll talk about that when we get into the

[56:15] staffing. Your county is on the trajectory of continued inmate population. Whether you like it or not that's where you're trending.

[56:24] So the fact of the matter is that as we start to develop and we'll talk about what is efficient in regards to the size of maybe I'll just touch on that right now.

[56:35] That pod right there, the most we have found that the most efficient size of that pod is 150 beds and I'll explain why.

[56:46] So if you look around the perimeter, all of those jail cells that are out there, all the jail cells are on the outside of that circle are driven by DOC code.

[56:56] There are dimensions that we need to comply with.

[56:59] So, just in vision that if we keep stacking them, let's say we go to 200, do we go to 250,

[57:04] we're going to put more and more of them in.

[57:06] Now, my doughnut gets bigger, right?

[57:09] So, you start to see that corridor that's around that officer station.

[57:13] That corridor starts to become space that is really not being utilized.

[57:19] Other than it's causing my correctional officer that's in the orange,

[57:23] to have a longer line of vision to see inside the cell.

[57:26] So, we've done larger, it's one of them where we would say, let's back that up a little bit because we've built it in purpose so that we could see the fine component is that 150 has been a really good number.

[57:41] Now, you can argue as it 160 is at 140. Somewhere in these parameters is what makes the most sense in regards to what that looks like.

[57:50] How many classifications have you made exist?

[57:53] great question. I don't have my slider to show you all of them. We have been

[58:00] recommending that if you're going to plan for classification number right now

[58:05] that it should be somewhere between 15 and 20 leaning heavier to 20. Now I'm

[58:11] going to go through the list of elements that kind of complicate all of that. So

[58:15] you have male and female, which is minimum, medium, maximum, right? So you used to

[58:20] of male and female, minimum, medium and maximum.

[58:24] Those are still there, but there are subclassifications

[58:26] that start to fall underneath that, right?

[58:29] If we start to have somebody that has special needs,

[58:31] meaning that they're on suicide watch,

[58:33] they've got to be separated.

[58:34] That's another classification.

[58:35] They can't be apart with anybody else.

[58:37] If there are co-conspirators like to talk to both before,

[58:41] you have those individuals.

[58:42] Here's the problem with that is real quick now.

[58:46] If we had one county that had six individuals

[58:48] that were on the same case,

[58:49] They couldn't be camped with anybody else, so now that just consumed six classifications

[58:53] and you had to have the class, you had to have the breakout of your housing unit to

[59:00] be able to accommodate that.

[59:02] Where I'm headed with that is that the number really isn't important if we design it properly,

[59:09] because we can give you 35 or 40 for the same cost as 10 or 12.

[59:15] And the reason that I say that is that we're just going to take those day rooms and we're going to make them smaller.

[59:22] So what you'll see is before you have these 10, 12, 14 bed. You guys got 20 bed dorms upstairs right now.

[59:29] Meaning that there's

[59:30] Bunks with 20 bed dorms that are in there.

[59:33] We have been

[59:35] itemizing or breaking these down so that there's

[59:37] 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, different variables that are tied into that dayroom.

[59:44] And now we've given the same amount of dayroom space, we've given the same number of

[59:48] cell sizes, and now we've given those classifications for that entire floor that's there.

[59:54] It gives you the flexibility as you move forward with your population, because your

[59:59] population to

[1:00:00] Today is not what it was 20 years ago. And I don't know if the jail roster got sent out to you, but I will share with you one of the things working with a lot of counties in the state of Wisconsin.

[1:00:12] Your jail roster is not what you want to see. You're housing individuals that need to be in jail, and having these classifications properly separated is important.

[1:00:24] Great question.

[1:00:26] Okay, that's everybody in the queue, so if you want to.

[1:00:31] So existing conditions?

[1:00:33] I joked about it before, but how many of you have you been in jail?

[1:00:36] And I don't mean behind the bars.

[1:00:39] But how many have you actually walked your jail?

[1:00:43] Oh, good.

[1:00:44] I'll steal you.

[1:00:45] That's very important.

[1:00:49] Your jail has been added on and added on and added on.

[1:00:56] And that's really what the element of what your jail is.

[1:00:57] And it's not uncommon.

[1:01:00] A lot of the counties that we deal with have this jail

[1:01:03] and you could go across the state of Wisconsin

[1:01:06] and what used to happen is the sheriff and his wife

[1:01:08] would have a residence and they'd have

[1:01:11] some jail cells next there and the sheriff's wife was the cook.

[1:01:15] And she would serve up the dinner and give them to the inmates

[1:01:18] and that was the jail.

[1:01:20] And then it continued to grow from there.

[1:01:23] To the point that now you started to see bricks and mortar more steel. I mean jail construction continued to grow over the course of time

[1:01:32] And your jail in 1954 the very very very first jail in sheriff's office was built in 1954

[1:01:40] So I as a last year was 70 years old. I looked at my slide today. I'm wearing 25 already. I can't believe it

[1:01:46] I don't know exactly when it was built, but it's over 70 years old now

[1:01:50] You have a lot of issues associated with that and they're listed, you have the power point to see it.

[1:01:56] I'm going to read through some of the things that the DOC has listed on their jail inspection reports.

[1:02:01] But this gives you an idea of your layout.

[1:02:03] And we've color coded this so that you can see what happened with your campus over the course of time.

[1:02:09] And we did a better job of breaking it out here.

[1:02:11] So, as you'll see down below, there's that small little jail and sheriff's office that was built.

[1:02:16] and it was at 54, and then there was an addition in 79,

[1:02:21] couple of editions in 79, then you did another edition in renovation in 93,

[1:02:26] and then you did another one. We have 2004 here, I think it was between 2004 and 2006.

[1:02:32] You did some additional edition in renovation onto your jail. So, with that said,

[1:02:38] the question about linear, you guys had a linear jail, and then you added another linear jail to it,

[1:02:42] and then you added another linear jail to it.

[1:02:44] So, when I first came here for the first time, and I walked through the jail with the sheriff,

[1:02:52] we walked into your master control, and your master control is crazy, crazy small, way too small.

[1:03:00] In regards to what needs to be done there, and the people that in your master control can't see anything, they're looking at a screen.

[1:03:08] And I try to explain that to individuals of why that's important.

[1:03:13] And that correctional officer is in that master control is the one who has their thumb on everything.

[1:03:19] They are controlling the overall security of that jail.

[1:03:23] And when we talk about these correctional officers that are in that pod control are able to

[1:03:27] see what's going on, they have to have sight lines and the only way that I can explain it

[1:03:32] to somebody is if you are driving your car, if I ask you to leave tonight and you all have

[1:03:37] these great screens that are on your car now, right?

[1:03:39] They're all about this bag and they're getting bigger.

[1:03:41] If I told you that you had to drive home tonight, but the only way you could get home tonight is to drive by looking at that screen.

[1:03:48] How would that change the way you could drive?

[1:03:52] Your peripheral vision is gone.

[1:03:54] You're looking at the screen.

[1:03:55] You're relying on a video of one still shot of what's coming at you.

[1:04:00] Now, if I have you step back and you're going to drive down the road and you're looking like you're supposed to.

[1:04:05] You're not texting, right?

[1:04:07] We've all become great at texting and checking things.

[1:04:09] If we're not texting and we've laid that down and we're looking at the road.

[1:04:12] Now, we've been able to have our peripheral vision

[1:04:15] and we can see what's coming at us.

[1:04:17] That's what that poddle offers.

[1:04:20] This is the glass that's in front of them.

[1:04:22] They can see if there's a movement over here.

[1:04:23] If there becomes a fight over there, if there's a struggle,

[1:04:26] if somebody hits the dirt over here,

[1:04:27] the correctional officer is attacked,

[1:04:30] they are able to then respond and get to that point right away

[1:04:33] rather than waiting for a screen.

[1:04:36] Because if you see what happens when they're looking at this officer

[1:04:39] that's in that master controller pod control,

[1:04:41] They are to be looking at this, but there are screens that are popping up.

[1:04:44] If I am looking at a screen, and there is 120 to 150 cameras that are now diced up into

[1:04:51] a different monitor that has a dozen to 20 of them, you may not see the activity that's there.

[1:04:58] Now here is another list of the DOC inspection that has been ongoing.

[1:05:03] You have ADA compliance issues, you've got mixed classification issues,

[1:05:11] you've got safety and

[1:05:11] You've got plumbing leaks, we've actually got some pictures of some cast iron piping that is

[1:05:16] fallen through ceilings last week or the week before. You had a flood of sewage that came from

[1:05:23] a break of cast iron pipes, toilets that aren't flowing because of your plumbing issues.

[1:05:28] There's mold in the showers, your inmate foam system continues to break down.

[1:05:33] Your HVAC is not being able to supply the constant temperatures that are needed in the spaces

[1:05:39] because of the design, there's cracking issues, there's settlement components, you've got door

[1:05:44] functioning issues, they're binding, they're not working. Some of your door hardware is you

[1:05:50] can no longer get, and this is something that we have run into in counties all over the state

[1:05:54] of Wisconsin. It's antiquated. Some of the door parts are actually being looked on eBay to get.

[1:06:01] It's not just a final account, anything. That's happened. That's why counties are deciding

[1:06:05] that's time to do something with their jail.

[1:06:08] Your professional visitation space is not adequate, your program space is not adequate, your

[1:06:13] booking is sorely undersides and I'll talk a little bit about that in a minute.

[1:06:18] Black of intercombs and then you have the inefficient layout, some of your correctional officers

[1:06:25] in a course of a shift are walking 10 miles to get through and do their cell check.

[1:06:31] So that rover that I was telling you about that isn't planted in an office or station.

[1:06:36] They have to go through and do mandatory cell checks.

[1:06:40] It can range anywhere from 15 minutes, cell checks, or 30 minutes, cell checks to 60.

[1:06:44] It depends on the classification of that inmate.

[1:06:47] So there's a lot of traffic that happens there.

[1:06:50] So these are just some pictures that you will see here.

[1:06:53] On the left hand side, those bars.

[1:06:55] Always reference the Barney-Five component because that's where we all saw the jail Barney-Five in the jail bars

[1:07:02] Your jail still has them the problem with them as they become a tie-off point

[1:07:07] What I mean by that is somebody decides that

[1:07:11] They want to take their life

[1:07:12] You can tie a sheet on there and you can tie a sheet around part of your body and all of a sudden the deed has done

[1:07:18] Right that's why those things are no longer utilized

[1:07:21] They're not put into designs, but you still have some in your jail

[1:07:24] the corridor that you see on the second piece there, it's hard to see, but there's actually

[1:07:30] Actually, a extension cord that is going across there. And I think that was running a CPAP machine to be able to get that extension cord into that space, because you don't have the adequate electrical. That's there, obviously. It's a trip hazard components that are tied into that. The next two pictures there show you how tight that cord or is. And when I take you into that cord or try to imagine if you're having a struggle with an inmate that's combative and not wanting to go into that space, the issues that are

[1:07:59] tied into that.

[1:08:02] ADA issues, we're showing the ADA lack of compliance in those doors between those first

[1:08:07] two in order to get people into there, they are not compliant.

[1:08:11] So you ask the question, why are we allowed to have that in there?

[1:08:15] It's called a grandfather clause, because you haven't done the renovation in that space.

[1:08:20] It is allowable because that was acceptable at the code at time.

[1:08:24] If we come in and talk about renovating your jail, all of that needs to be brought up to code.

[1:08:30] Your jail will need to be a complete gut and remodel in order to get these code compliant elements done.

[1:08:38] Hard to see on the third picture there, but there is differing floor elevations just because when you add it on,

[1:08:44] we change the floor height and then we add it on, we did another floor height.

[1:08:47] There's actually I believe some plumbing and duckwork that runs underneath that area right there,

[1:08:52] And then there's a plumbing chase on either side of that, so it kind of acts as a mechanical

[1:08:57] chase underneath that space.

[1:09:00] Part on the right hand side is actually your secure corridor between your jailhousing and

[1:09:06] your courts.

[1:09:08] You're walking inmates past windows.

[1:09:11] Now in the world of security, we don't want that to happen, because here's what happens.

[1:09:16] Court dates, court times are a known element, and if somebody decides that they want

[1:09:22] to take that individual out and they know that there is a line of sight through those windows.

[1:09:27] It is a huge security risk.

[1:09:31] See that picture on the left-hand side?

[1:09:33] That's the view that the officers have from their office or station.

[1:09:36] They look down that corridor when they're not looking at their screen.

[1:09:41] Next picture here is surface mounted.

[1:09:43] You see the cord hanging up there.

[1:09:45] We've got conduit that's on the wall that doesn't have the appropriate security

[1:09:52] We've got another element there where it shows the literature issues and then we've got many areas where you do not have security ceilings, so there is a certain type of ceiling that needs to be in your jails that people can't pick out, they can't pull out, they can't store things in there, you've got many areas that are lacking secure ceilings.

[1:10:13] The middle areas, again, you can see you've got grab bars that are tie-off spaces.

[1:10:18] You've got fixtures that do not meet detention grade, the bathroom that's on the right

[1:10:23] hand side is your only toilet for your officer station.

[1:10:29] It is not EDA compliant.

[1:10:31] It is literally, I think, a closet that they decided to put a toilet in a sink in.

[1:10:38] You've got some settlement issues that are happening.

[1:10:41] The door on the left obviously is the narrow one. You got several of those that are too narrow for you to be able to get into spaces.

[1:10:50] You've got the toilet space. These fixtures that are not compliant.

[1:10:56] Well, we got, oh, you've got some settlement. There's a settlement in the last edition where we start to see cracking in your structure components that are tied back into that.

[1:11:06] There are doors that continually need to be adjusted and filed or ground off to be able to get them to operate in function.

[1:11:15] The picture on the left is your security electronics closet, which is a closet that does not meet the required air changes, cooling for the space that's in there.

[1:11:26] The laundry room shows were one of your floods took place, the flood actually caused all of the tile to be removed from its substrate and the plumbing issues that we talked about with those plumbing pipes that are coming down into that.

[1:11:41] These are just some pictures of other elements. It's hard to represent everything in a picture. I know right here the picture doesn't do it justice. I guess what I would offer to all of you is that if you wanted to have a one-on-one tour,

[1:11:55] So we can take you in there and point out these elements to you.

[1:11:58] Or if you have any questions about any of this after the fact

[1:12:01] we would be willing to meet with you on at one on one.

[1:12:04] So this diagram here, when I talk to you about those windows

[1:12:08] that are exposed there, if you look at that red line,

[1:12:14] that red line represents the corridor that the correctional

[1:12:18] officers have to take the inmates to court.

[1:12:22] is down around back, there's actually one area where there's a door that is not secured in that space and then when we get into the court suite,

[1:12:37] the inmates actually walk down the same court or the judge and the judge's staff are in.

[1:12:43] That is a big no-no in the world of safety and security, but it exists.

[1:12:55] So part of this evaluation is that when we start to talk about a jail and we start to plan for a jail,

[1:13:02] you can't just take the jail in a loan by itself and say let's just park a housing unit over here,

[1:13:10] because it has so many ties.

[1:13:12] And the ties come into the court's department, right?

[1:13:15] And one of the elements that we have to evaluate as a jail is where are we going to put it in relationship to the courts.

[1:13:24] And when we start to talk into the options that's a very big driving factor in regards to where does this jail or where should this jail be built.

[1:13:33] Now I'll say it was one of the difficult things for ad hoc to discuss because it's not there's not an easy decision.

[1:13:41] There's not just a clear directive. I've walked into counties, and it's like, hey, here's where we should park it.

[1:13:47] It is the most cost-effective solution. It's the safest and secure connection. You don't have that here.

[1:13:52] And we'll talk about that. But here are some things that you have for deficiencies with your courts department.

[1:13:58] You have no secure court holding. None.

[1:14:02] Individuals walk are walked up into the courtroom rather than having a holding cell upstairs for them to be able to deal with that.

[1:14:10] There is no secure transport corridor.

[1:14:13] I've talked about that extensively here.

[1:14:15] There are windows to jury rooms, which haven't shown you the pictures of that, but those jury rooms should not have windows in there.

[1:14:22] There's actually a lack of jury rooms that aren't enough there.

[1:14:25] And out of the court rooms that you have, all of them are too small except for one.

[1:14:31] So you guys have a pretty heavy court schedule. You're busy.

[1:14:37] There are a lot of things that go on there and this next slide here was one that we started asking for some of the incidents.

[1:14:44] So here's what happens is that when an inmate is transported to court, there is an opening or potential liability about individuals coming in contact with members of the other party or loved ones.

[1:15:00] And things can start to escalate. So we are able to get some of these incidents that were tied into this, is that your average inmate movement, oh, lost it.

[1:15:15] I'll look over here. Your average inmate movement has increased 9.5 or 9.4% a year. Your highest inmate movement was 180 in a month. That means that 180 people had to go back and forth.

[1:15:30] A 10-year projection, depending on how that grows, could be up to 442.

[1:15:36] Security requests at court.

[1:15:38] There's about 80, an average of 80, security requests per month, and what that means is,

[1:15:42] there could be an event that an officer needs to go to.

[1:15:46] Something is escalated, there needs to be additional backup, those components that are tied

[1:15:49] into that.

[1:15:50] Why is that important?

[1:15:52] Is where are those officers coming from?

[1:15:54] How far do they have to travel to be able to deal with that response?

[1:15:57] The peak is 108 in one month and the 10-year projection is 173.

[1:16:04] So there is a lot of exposure when it comes in regards to that security and the connection

[1:16:11] between your jail and your court's component.

[1:16:16] Now, we've got members here from the courts.

[1:16:19] Anybody want to elaborate?

[1:16:21] in my anything you want to add under that, anybody have any comments or no?

[1:16:29] All right.

[1:16:30] So we'll move on here.

[1:16:32] Major site issue.

[1:16:35] As you look at where the garbage truck comes in or actually shutting down,

[1:16:39] I believe that's a question from the South hand side or South hand.

[1:16:43] As we've saw this one day in regards to an operational,

[1:16:46] sort of looking at site components,

[1:16:47] The other element of this site is that you've had a history of water-frontage meaning that your water

[1:16:54] has known to come out of its banks.

[1:16:57] Those are things that we have to consider when we start to talk about where are we going to build,

[1:17:00] and how do we go about building on those components.

[1:17:04] So, we're at another pause here. Do we have any questions?

[1:17:11] I know there's a lot of existing conditions.

[1:17:12] to surprise your bro, go ahead.

[1:17:15] I just, one question, I don't know if you want to go back

[1:17:19] like two slides to the court and jail security review.

[1:17:22] Could you just expand on why that those 10-year projections

[1:17:25] would be so much higher than they are now?

[1:17:28] So you can take that with a grain of salt.

[1:17:30] We're going to get into the increase in your population.

[1:17:35] So we're taking, what's your population?

[1:17:37] I think your population in the jail is increased

[1:17:39] almost 2% per year.

[1:17:41] So that's where we're starting to see these increases.

[1:17:44] That variable is not 100%.

[1:17:47] But it's based on projections that we had with the population of the geo-growing.

[1:17:51] And with the population of the geo-growing,

[1:17:53] obviously there's going to be more court appearances

[1:17:55] depending on the severity of that case that's there.

[1:17:58] So there's a lot of variables in there.

[1:18:00] Don't walk in on that one.

[1:18:02] But the other ones, let's use the other ones that are concrete.

[1:18:04] Those are documented incidents that we're there.

[1:18:08] All

[1:18:10] right. Any other ones?

[1:18:11] Yes. Supervisor Donbrook. When you talked about deficiencies in our current jail, I think one thing

[1:18:19] that we noticed when we went to Green Lake, our Sally port here is way too small. We cannot

[1:18:25] even get an ambulance in there. So if we have to remove an inmate, that's a security risk.

[1:18:32] We have to take them outside to put them in the ambulance. And also Green Lake's Sally port is

[1:18:39] big enough for a bus. Yes. So if there was a natural gas leak in our jail and we had to evacuate

[1:18:45] or a flood that we had to evacuate to get those inmates that are in our jail right now into

[1:18:52] a bus we would have to take them outside. And I remember several years ago when I was working

[1:18:58] in the Brandon Fairwater Police Department, we had a near incident where we were going to have to

[1:19:05] a vacuum-weight to jail, but look like we're going to have to, and they were calling in every law enforcement officer and the colony to come to Fondalac to help secure that evacuation, so there were no escapes.

[1:19:19] That's another deficiency, correct?

[1:19:21] Good point.

[1:19:22] So the Sally Porter, we didn't show you any pictures of that, but I'm glad you brought that up.

[1:19:25] The Sally Porter is obviously that hand off from the arresting officer to the correctional officer.

[1:19:31] He's 100% right, is that you have two pull-in and back-out stalls and it will not allow

[1:19:41] an ambulance to go into that space and close the doors.

[1:19:46] So now that is a security breach, obviously.

[1:19:49] If you keep your door open and you're going to be moving inmates and they've got green space

[1:19:53] that's there, you've got an issue.

[1:19:55] The other issue with the salary port is not being able to have multiple squads in there.

[1:20:00] What we see in other counties is that they come up and they have a combat of issue, they

[1:20:03] will pull one squad in, the other squad will come behind them, before they bring that arrested

[1:20:08] individual out, the other officer can come in and help to be able to get them into this space.

[1:20:13] The bus is a big component, evacuation is a big game plan in regards to if you have to

[1:20:19] get them out of there, so we do size it for a bus in regards to be able to get them, and

[1:20:30] work component. I will add as long as we're talking about that intake because I'll forget about it

[1:20:35] when I get into the better analysis. You have 12 receiving cells. And you remember in the model

[1:20:41] where I showed you where you're going to bring somebody in and you're going to put them in those

[1:20:44] receiving cells before you put them into general pop. So we're going to observe them. We're going to

[1:20:49] classify them. They're going to spend some time in those receiving cells. You have 12 of them.

[1:20:54] I have walked through your jail multiple times over the course of the last couple of years working

[1:20:59] here, they have always been full.

[1:21:03] We have found that as a rule of thumb, there is not a code that drives this calculation,

[1:21:08] but as a rule of thumb, you should have about 10 percent of your rated population to be

[1:21:15] in your receivers.

[1:21:16] You have 12 for a rate of population of 335.

[1:21:20] Here's what happens.

[1:21:22] This is the liability that rest on you, the county that you may not be aware of.

[1:21:26] And your correctional officers are doing the best they can.

[1:21:29] But we have tracked that while we were here, some weekends you had bookings north of 50.

[1:21:38] What that means is 50 people came into your Sallyport, and now they have to find a place for them.

[1:21:45] They are supposed to go into your receiving area, but because you have no receivers,

[1:21:50] what they are doing is they are taking that individual and they are putting into general population.

[1:21:54] And here's the problem with that, is that when a resting officer brings in somebody and

[1:22:01] the correctional officer takes them over, they don't know what they have on their hands.

[1:22:06] They do not know what this individual is capable of, so from the best practices, that's

[1:22:12] why you put them in a receiving cell, you observe them, they are right there, you're one

[1:22:16] on one, you're seeing what's going on with them, are they detoxing, are they on something,

[1:22:20] Is there something going on? Are they acting up? Are they beating their head against the cell? Are they going to be destructive?

[1:22:27] You don't know that before you move in into your general

[1:22:30] If I walked you through your jail right now, you do not have adequate single cells to put somebody there. They're putting them with somebody that they shouldn't. Because they have no other option.

[1:22:46] That's a liability component that's tied there. Your receiving cells are also used for disciplinary action, meaning that if there is somebody that's in general pop, and they can't calm down, they can't settle down. You can bring them into that receiving cell.

[1:23:01] so that that correctional officer that at that post can maintain and watch them.

[1:23:06] What you will see is as we are designing jails, we are actually doing a special needs block,

[1:23:11] where we can manage those individuals in a special needs block, and you don't start to consume your receiving cells.

[1:23:17] I quite frankly don't know how your correctional officers are doing it on those busy weekends.

[1:23:21] I had Tyler run the numbers for me in the month of January.

[1:23:24] Out of the month of January, there were multiple days.

[1:23:27] Now we're not talking just on a week and multiple days where you had north of 10 bookings in a day.

[1:23:34] So you're bringing 10 people in. Those receivers aren't available. You are constantly not you,

[1:23:39] but the correctional officers on behalf of the county are constantly moving the population around

[1:23:44] where they shouldn't. It should not be happening. It's a liability that rests on the county.

[1:23:52] As soon as that individual comes into your custody, you are liable for their care and well-being.

[1:23:58] And that goes to the extent that when you say, hey, we're going to ship them out and you want to ship them to another county, let's have somebody else take care of them, doesn't relieve you of your liability.

[1:24:09] Still rests on you.

[1:24:11] So if you're asking the neighboring county to take care of that individual, you are asking a neighboring county that you don't know who they are.

[1:24:19] You don't know what they're doing to take care of that on your behalf.

[1:24:22] Those are all very serious things that you have to consider in regards to what your jail

[1:24:28] Constructions like so thanks for bringing that up. I would have it over. Look that

[1:24:32] Good morning, Q one more surprise your haze

[1:24:35] My first question is we had two very large floods

[1:24:40] And I wanted to know did it flood during that did we have to move people what was what happened during those floods

[1:24:46] So

[1:24:51] it's my understanding that you had flooding in your lower level.

[1:24:56] So what you have in your lower level is you have that entire lower level.

[1:25:00] So again, I didn't observe it, I'm hearing it third hand.

[1:25:03] You guys have this levy system, right, of trying to get things short upper blocked up,

[1:25:08] so it doesn't run in.

[1:25:09] So if you go on the west side of your campus and you look at the south side of your campus,

[1:25:13] you've got these two funnels to allow the water to go down stairs, that's the element

[1:25:18] that's there.

[1:25:18] The reason that I'm telling you about the flooding is that we're going to take that in a

[1:25:22] consideration when we talk about building here.

[1:25:24] It's not necessarily that they had to move in me.

[1:25:26] It's at the time that it flooded, but you have to take that in a consideration when we're going

[1:25:30] to make a recommendation or a long-range plan for what do we do here, because that waterway

[1:25:35] has known to come out of its banks.

[1:25:37] Okay.

[1:25:37] My next question is, when you were talking about these liability issues, have we been sued in the

[1:25:41] past?

[1:25:45] Well, he's talking about liability within the jail, have we been sued about issues in the

[1:25:50] If individual sued the county,

[1:25:56] we have had individuals file suits against us in the jail and some of them are still ongoing.

[1:26:04] I guess I couldn't tell you how many are successful at this point, but yeah, it does happen.

[1:26:10] Not all of them are warranted and or justified.

[1:26:12] Right. I mean, it's a common, I don't want to say cop.

[1:26:15] I want to say cop into all counties.

[1:26:17] That I don't know. I can't answer for other counties. I just know occasionally we would get claims filed by inmates.

[1:26:26] Okay, then my last question is, this is the first time I've heard talk of deficiencies in our courts.

[1:26:33] Are there standards that, like, set by someone for which the courts should meet?

[1:26:41] And who sets those?

[1:26:42] The Supreme Court guidelines.

[1:26:43] It was Constance State's Supreme Court guidelines.

[1:26:46] A Supreme Court guidelines gives that to all states.

[1:26:49] So when we start to get into the design of a courts, there are actually sizes for

[1:26:55] the courts, actually sizes for the jury room, there's actually sizes for the judges'

[1:27:00] chambers.

[1:27:01] All of those are guidelines.

[1:27:03] So a guidelines are different than a code.

[1:27:05] So you've got some availability to adjust them, but there is also the element of there

[1:27:12] There's a requirement to make sure that there's a security review of your campus, right, in regards to making sure that you are addressing all of those needs, and that's something that is done.

[1:27:23] I think annually by your group to be able to evaluate that.

[1:27:27] So yeah, there are Supreme Court guidelines that drive that.

[1:27:30] Thank you.

[1:27:32] Supervisor Rickard?

[1:27:35] Yes.

[1:27:36] The two times that I know that they had flooding the water from the flooding that came over

[1:27:43] the river banks was going down the ramp to the parking garage and they were able to sandbag

[1:27:49] it and they really didn't have any major flooding down there because the sandbagging and

[1:27:57] keeping it from going into the basement wasn't in the jail, it was in the parking area below.

[1:28:03] Yep.

[1:28:06] Yep. Thank you. Supervisor Leary.

[1:28:09] I just want to know, you said something about a 2% increase per year of the population.

[1:28:15] I want to know where you get your data from because I've conflicting data on that and on the projections.

[1:28:21] And that is from our census data and also from the Department of Administration.

[1:28:27] So what's your number?

[1:28:29] So I'm looking at numbers for the county and for the city.

[1:28:34] The Wisconsin Department of Administration, they used the census data to project the future

[1:28:42] populations here in our city and county, and they did this for the years 2030 to 2050.

[1:28:49] And they indicated a significant downward trend in local and statewide population.

[1:28:54] They said that the fertility rate, including the effects of the net migration, are slowing

[1:29:01] the growth.

[1:29:02] They give numbers for, well, they say 2020 was our peak population and that in 2030 we are

[1:29:10] going to be at 102,425 people for the county and by 2050 that's supposed to be 94,925.

[1:29:22] And then the 2030 population projection for the city is at 43,588 and by 2050 it's projected

[1:29:31] to be at 39,740.

[1:29:36] That means that there's less households paying for this on their taxes and I'm just wondering

[1:29:43] why or inmate population is expected to increase when the population is expected to decrease

[1:29:49] and I don't know if we're planning to participate in jail for a profit here, I don't know

[1:29:55] but the other DOA forecast for the decrease in the past.

[1:30:00] It's also due to the population getting older here and that means a decrease in the demand for K through 12 education, which means the property tax burden is going to go from the people who work to those who are retired and it just means less people will be able to pay for this.

[1:30:19] Okay, so we need to clarify you and I are talking about two completely different things.

[1:30:23] Yeah, I know.

[1:30:23] You're talking about general population and I'm talking about what's happened in your jail.

[1:30:29] And that's why I ask, why are we expecting this to increase, are we taking, are we gonna be doing jail for profit or what are we doing?

[1:30:39] So let's start here because we'll get into the BEDs and Eats analysis. This might be a, do you have any more questions?

[1:30:44] No, okay, no. It might be a great spot for the sheriff.

[1:30:47] I want you to have the sheriff talk to you a little bit about the jail or a huster.

[1:30:52] We gave you that because we wanted you to understand that your population is increasing and your question comes up every time I'm talking about a jail is that our population is going down therefore our criminal activity is going to go down.

[1:31:09] They don't necessarily correlate and I can tell you right now each community is different in regards to what that criminal activity looks like.

[1:31:17] When we came here and started looking at your information a month ago, since then, your population has significantly increased.

[1:31:28] The 1.7 that I told you is probably a number that has no longer valid.

[1:31:35] So, comparing the two of them, especially when you're going to your constituents, you have to stress that the population of the community and the county does not have a direct correlation to criminal activity.

[1:31:45] because there's criminal activity that happens in your county by people who do not reside in this county.

[1:31:51] They just don't.

[1:31:53] Sure, if did you want to talk a little bit about the roster if you don't mind?

[1:31:57] This is also in your iPads.

[1:32:00] I replaced this in your iPads this morning.

[1:32:06] And the presentation is in your iPads also.

[1:32:10] The reason to bring that up, it might be easier to follow on your iPad rather than

[1:32:14] strain your neck and let's try to look at the screen. So if you want to find it, you're welcome too.

[1:32:21] Yeah, you're good. All right. So we provided the jail roster. This is today. This is who's in

[1:32:27] custody, what they're in custody for today. It's not a cherry pick today or a hand-picked

[1:32:32] have a particularly bad day, you know, six months ago or a year and a half ago. This is today's

[1:32:37] roster. And I wanted to share it because I think it's important that you know and understand that

[1:32:44] Our jail is full, but it's not just full of offenders, it's full of serious offenders.

[1:32:50] There's a lot of offenders who are committing lower-level crimes, misdemeanor-level crimes,

[1:32:56] they get referred to the district attorney, they don't get taken into custody by the

[1:33:00] officer on the scene, they get released from the scene.

[1:33:03] Only the worst of the worst are coming into jail.

[1:33:07] And if you look at our jail population and where residents are from, typically 20 to 25

[1:33:14] percent of our jail population at any given time are not fondly

[1:33:17] a county residents and so that goes to you know kind of a talking point to

[1:33:22] consider that people are coming from those other populated areas a lot are

[1:33:28] from Milwaukee Chicago Madison Green Bay the the higher populated counties in

[1:33:33] Wisconsin and beyond our borders and are coming to find a lack or coming through

[1:33:37] fondly and getting arrested and for committing serious crimes here so the way

[1:33:42] The law works, we can't ship them back to answer to the crimes they committed here, back to

[1:33:48] the county that they came from or reside in, they're required to answer to those crimes

[1:33:52] that they committed in the county that they committed those crimes in.

[1:33:56] So when we're looking at projections and looking at future projections for population growth,

[1:34:02] all of this needs to be taken into consideration.

[1:34:06] And even if you go back 20 years when we did our last expansion, at that time 20 years ago,

[1:34:11] If we had one inmate in custody on a homicide related charge, which is basically the most serious crime you can commit against humanity, or against another person, if we had one or two, that was, we would go months with none, and if we had one or two, that was, everybody in the jail knew it, our correctional staff, all knew who was in jail for a homicide related charge, what that charge was, what that case was.

[1:34:36] As for just 20 years later, this jail raster looks a lot different than it did 20 years ago.

[1:34:42] We're routinely housing and holding inmates 15, 20, 25 inmates at a time on homicide related charges.

[1:34:51] We're again 20 years ago, we would see zero one or maybe two in custody for homicide.

[1:34:58] And that kind of goes in line with the rest of the nature of these charges.

[1:35:03] There are charges that of crimes that didn't even exist 20 years ago.

[1:35:08] Some of these drug trafficking crimes, some of these...

[1:35:13] But was...

[1:35:14] Take any page, flip to a random page and read.

[1:35:17] And like I said, you will see very serious crimes.

[1:35:20] And this is a very different jail population, even in just my time.

[1:35:24] I've worked for the Sheriff's Office.

[1:35:25] It'll be going on 27 years here in spring and the jail population and the nature of the offender and the nature of the offences has dramatically become more serious for a variety of a lot of different reasons, which is a conversation for another time.

[1:35:42] But the ramifications of that and the impact it has to the jail and jail operations, the safety and security of the jail, the need for a jail that is safe and secure and these line of sites that we talk about.

[1:35:55] the officer, safety we talk about, the safety of inmate on inmate contact and protecting

[1:36:01] inmates from each other. All of that kind of comes into play here with the seriousness

[1:36:07] of the jail roster that I wanted to share. And then for the offenses they're in custody

[1:36:12] for.

[1:36:14] I want to thank you for your explanation. I do want to know why people are coming here though

[1:36:19] to, on the leg. I know the highway is one of the issues, but there are people coming here.

[1:36:24] do see some people, you know, they are homeless.

[1:36:27] I mean, there weren't many, I didn't see.

[1:36:29] But I do know that people are coming here.

[1:36:32] They're being given addresses, and they're coming here.

[1:36:35] And I do know there's people coming here from Milwaukee and Chicago,

[1:36:40] because I mean, our homeless people here have an issue with the homeless

[1:36:44] people that are coming in.

[1:36:46] And so what can we do, I mean, this is a topic for another time.

[1:36:52] But I just want to say, why are they coming here other than the highway?

[1:36:57] Yeah, well, I mean, Fondalac geographically is housed between, you know, if you drew a triangle

[1:37:01] between Wisconsin's three biggest population centers, Milwaukee, Madison, Green Bay, we're

[1:37:06] smack in the middle of that.

[1:37:07] So we're kind of right in the middle of the heart of three biggest population centers

[1:37:12] and a travel from Madison to Green Bay, or Green Bay to Milwaukee, or, you know, anywhere

[1:37:17] in there you're coming through Fondalac. And as to what brings criminals to Fondalac,

[1:37:23] I don't know, or maybe they're also traveling through other communities and just not getting

[1:37:27] caught. I mean, I will... they go...

[1:37:30] You know, give a little credit to the law enforcement we have in this county that's aggressive and working to detect these offenders. And when a crime is committed, getting them into custody to keep on the lack of a resident safe. Regardless of where you live or where you come from, but the fact of the matter is they are coming here and committing oftentimes very serious crime.

[1:37:51] The answer, I mean, but you said, topic for a different discussion that could go on for hours in and of itself, but the reality is,

[1:37:57] The reality is we have to pay for it.

[1:37:59] That's the problem.

[1:38:01] It is, but you know, we can't build a wall around

[1:38:04] Final Econy and tell the criminals the keep out.

[1:38:06] We've got to work with who comes here and respond and

[1:38:10] react accordingly and to keep our residents safe because

[1:38:13] they are coming here and victimizing our citizens and

[1:38:15] our residents and it's incumbent upon us to protect our

[1:38:19] community regardless of where the offender lives.

[1:38:23] Thank you. And for the sake of time here, I'm going

[1:38:27] try and ask everybody to keep their rather than five or six questions when they get a chance.

[1:38:32] Let's try and shorten them up just a little bit because we're not even a third of the way

[1:38:37] through the presentation and there's a big QA questions here yet. So I want to give everybody time,

[1:38:43] but just try and respect the time of the entire board too. So guys, are Haru Lash?

[1:38:49] I have a question for the sheriff and forgive me, I just have no clue.

[1:38:54] weren't transport in transport, weren't so there's maybe like 28 or 30 of those in there on the roster.

[1:39:01] What is that I saw like some of them sitting in there since July?

[1:39:05] Yeah, so the warrant transports are typically individuals that are in our custody that are a lot of times on local charges,

[1:39:13] so they have criminal charges, they have to answer to and find a lot of that colony,

[1:39:16] But then they also have charges elsewhere that this rotates that we have to release them to some other

[1:39:24] County who will come get them once they're finished with their charges here. That's what that is got it.

[1:39:29] So the ones that are just warrant transport that are in there not other charges.

[1:39:36] Yeah, yeah, there's like 28 of those that are just like with just transport or warrant transport.

[1:39:42] Yep, so like the very first one on page one.

[1:39:44] He's got a whole bunch of warrant transports, and he's got a Kalamazoo Michigan.

[1:39:50] So I'm address, so I'm guessing he's maybe contesting extradition because it's at

[1:39:54] out of County, or out of state transport.

[1:39:57] There's an extradition process that can get to be a long, drawn out of fear.

[1:40:00] I don't see him on any local charges here.

[1:40:07] Well, he also could have been transported, and maybe Tyler can answer to this.

[1:40:11] He's got his computer up in the back of the room, the assistant jail administrator who can

[1:40:16] and I've received these questions or questions about specific inmates from other county board

[1:40:21] supervisors and we delve into if you've got specific inmates you're wondering you know

[1:40:26] I've had questions why is this one been you know in custody since July on a $300 cash bond

[1:40:32] and well the answer was they have a $40,000 cash bond hold and Green Lake County and they prefer

[1:40:38] I guess to stay in our jail in Green Lake so they don't pay their $300 here and they don't get released until that case is adjudicated

[1:40:45] But most of those are going to have unique circumstances and we the only way to I guess answer individually would be you know

[1:40:52] If you get a hold of us after tonight we can delve into any of the inmates

[1:40:56] It's all open record or public record and we can give you a specific reason why they're here or what the warrant transport

[1:41:02] Specifically means in their case sounds good. Thank you. Yeah, guys are done, bro

[1:41:07] Okay, I'm gonna try to run this question together with another one, so I don't get you all that.

[1:41:15] So, could you tell us Sheriff number one,

[1:41:19] the more serious crime the longer they stay in our jail.

[1:41:22] I mean, there's people that have probably been in our jail facing a murder charge or homicide charge

[1:41:29] for over a year and a half or even two years, so that helps keep the count up, correct?

[1:41:34] And then the other part of that question is,

[1:41:38] I did have a chance to talk to a judge today, and I can't remember the time frame, but at

[1:41:43] one point our felony charges in the county cases that they were seeing were 500, I believe

[1:41:50] a year and now it's up to 1200.

[1:41:53] So that just shows that crime is going up, not necessarily in proportion with the population

[1:41:59] going up, and is that correct to them?

[1:42:02] Right, so to answer the length of stay question, yes, these charges that are significant

[1:42:07] oftentimes require quite extensive investigative work. So the initial charge, you know, may be

[1:42:13] charged, but we have to wait oftentimes, months, sometimes longer for DNA to return cell phone

[1:42:20] analysis, social media analysis, all kinds of other analysis for evidence, interviews, those kinds

[1:42:28] of things. And then the cases themselves, we actually, I think it's important to know all five of

[1:42:33] circuit court judges are in the room tonight because they're in lockstep with us, meaning

[1:42:38] you know, statutorily the sheriff shall tend upon the circuit court of the county.

[1:42:42] That's how the statute reads and that has to do with inmate movement to and from their

[1:42:46] court as well as the physical security of their court and we correspond daily with our

[1:42:51] courts and with our judges.

[1:42:52] There's also reserve judge that was in the room here.

[1:42:55] He's still here.

[1:42:56] He just moved to the other side.

[1:42:58] So the judges can probably talk to their case load and what they're seeing and why

[1:43:02] some of these cases take a long time on the judicial end of things, but even investigate

[1:43:06] of either a lengthy amount of time that goes into these complex and high-level cases.

[1:43:12] There's a public defender, you know, need for public defender, there's a need for prosecutors

[1:43:17] in this state, and a lot of these cases require specialized training for a public defender

[1:43:24] or even any attorney to be able to take and properly defend these cases that all takes

[1:43:29] time, and correct me if I'm wrong, Judge Walker, but I believe you told me yesterday when

[1:43:35] we talked.

[1:43:36] The courts are seeing an increase in felony case load of 60 to 70 a year, year over years,

[1:43:43] that accurate approximately.

[1:43:46] So she's shaking her head.

[1:43:47] Yes, so that goes to show just the judicial case load, which also impacts our holding

[1:43:54] in jail because typically if you're committing a felony, you're going to receive a

[1:43:58] cash bond and a lot of times remaining incarcerated versus getting released on bail.

[1:44:04] Okay, thank you. Supervisor Hayes. Last evening.

[1:44:08] Sheriff Walshmit, thank you so much for always answering questions and being so open and informative.

[1:44:14] I can't tell you how much I appreciate the work that you and your department do.

[1:44:18] And, you know, it's hard to talk to citizens because we hear certain things and I'm sure you know what those are.

[1:44:24] But one of the things I wanted to ask you about was this idea of people not being from our county.

[1:44:30] I know that in Wakusha County they have addressed this recently as well because it seems to be a burden that is not just happening in Fondalak County.

[1:44:42] And so I was wondering if you had any discussions with other other sheriffs or the state about that.

[1:44:50] And then I want to add to that as well in Sawyer County, they had, you know, increasing jail population, they did a study and found out that they did

[1:45:00] And they were able to get more judges. There's also the issue of, do we have enough DAs? Are we backed up?

[1:45:08] Because we don't have resources in other areas. So I wonder if you could address that as well.

[1:45:14] Yeah, I mean, we've had discussion and conversation on there are counties that, my opinion, you know, prioritize public safety and law and order.

[1:45:23] And I will tell you, from nearly the perspective of a sheriff and as the

[1:45:28] fondal like County Sheriff, it is very frustrating to me to see the inmate roster every morning.

[1:45:34] I log in one of the first things I do is look at who is incarcerated, who is booked into jail,

[1:45:38] what those charges are. And it's probably nine out of ten times those offenders from

[1:45:45] out of county who are coming here and committing serious crimes are out on bail from another county

[1:45:50] for serious offenses that they get a very low cash bond or cash bail on in counties that

[1:45:56] historically or traditionally are for whatever reason and I can't control the judges in

[1:46:01] this county, but I certainly can't control them in other counties when they're setting low bonds,

[1:46:05] low bales, or they're out on probation. So the new charge comes with a probation or parole

[1:46:10] because they're out on probation. They're repeat offenders. You continue to commit crimes and

[1:46:15] It's, I guess that's, I want to get on a soul box, I'll get off my soul box, but that is very

[1:46:21] frustrating, but that is the reality of what we see.

[1:46:23] These are typically not new first-time offenders committing these serious crimes.

[1:46:28] There are people who, my opinion, should be incarcerated elsewhere for the crimes they've

[1:46:32] committed elsewhere, but that county failed to protect their citizens and release them

[1:46:37] and indirectly protect, you know, failed to protect our citizens and those individuals

[1:46:42] came here and committed those crimes here.

[1:46:44] We have, like I said, great judges, they are law and order judges and rule of law judges and, again, in my opinion,

[1:46:53] typically will, how is appropriate or will set bail appropriately given the circumstances given the criminal history that offender and,

[1:47:01] but that does result in incarceration here.

[1:47:04] Knowing, though, that if we release them, I mean, they've already committed crimes elsewhere, most of them have lengthy criminal histories.

[1:47:11] They came here and committed crime and if they're released here on a low cash bond or cash bail

[1:47:17] They're going to probably reoffend somewhere else or reoffend here again

[1:47:21] So this is a public safety topic. This is a keeping the community safe topic

[1:47:27] Meaning the jail

[1:47:29] Project and the jail decisions that we need to make is a community. It's

[1:47:33] It impacts directly the safety and security of our citizens

[1:47:36] It's not just about holding offenders. It's about protecting our own citizens here too

[1:47:41] from those that want to victimize our citizens and our businesses.

[1:47:46] So I just want to follow up.

[1:47:48] Do we need another judge?

[1:47:49] Do we need more DAs?

[1:47:50] Do we need more public defenders?

[1:47:52] Is that backing things up as well?

[1:47:55] DA 20s in the room and the, like I said, five circuit court judges are in the room.

[1:48:00] I'm sure at some point we will need a six circuit court.

[1:48:03] We have talked about that and or a court commissioner to alleviate some of that load.

[1:48:07] So there is no space in this building for an additional courtroom, none whatsoever.

[1:48:13] As mentioned earlier, there's one adequately sized courtroom, the other four are not adequate.

[1:48:19] But as far as how close we are to needing that six- to judge circuit judge or court commissioner,

[1:48:25] I would defer to one of the judges if they want to answer and then Eric and the DA can speak to the prosecutor need.

[1:48:33] just try to be brief on the prosecutor need so we have a state workload analysis that evaluates all 72 counties are 71 DA's offices.

[1:48:43] We have eight state funded prosecutor positions here in Fondal at County we're supposed to have about 14 and a half.

[1:48:50] So we're at about 56% staff and we're in the bottom five of state staff offices in the entire state probably.

[1:48:57] One of the largest offices, Brown County is kind of in the same circumstances as us.

[1:49:03] We're blessed that we have a county executive and a county board that have supported us with some added positions.

[1:49:09] We have one and a half ARPA positions that will be potentially going away later this year.

[1:49:15] They're set to expire, I think, at the end of July.

[1:49:19] We set, well, in 2023, we filed 11 intentional or 10-bit homicide cases that put us fifth most in the state of Wisconsin

[1:49:27] for 2023 and we filed eight first-degree reckless homicide charges in at 2023 that put a second in

[1:49:36] the state of Wisconsin tied with Brown County. So the sheriff talked about the homicide

[1:49:41] defendants they have and we're seeing that and our office, our judges are seeing that with

[1:49:46] their calendars which makes it very hard to get trials going because these usually take a

[1:49:51] week or more and that puts other cases that don't rise to that severity but are equally important

[1:49:55] with the impact it might have and other victims or the community making it more difficult.

[1:50:00] And one of the things our judges are doing right now, if one of their trials falls off for

[1:50:05] the week and another judge has two different trials scheduled on their calendar, that judge may

[1:50:08] step in and try to do one of those trials, which adds some workload for us, but we're trying to

[1:50:14] get these cases moving with the resources we have and it's difficult to find public defenders

[1:50:18] to take cases, which can keep cases extended for longer periods, especially if they withdraw,

[1:50:24] becomes even more difficult for that. So there's a host of problems not to mention some of the

[1:50:29] things that were referenced with the set up of the courthouse with the inability to really do

[1:50:34] two maybe three jury trials at a time with some of those challenges. So there's a host of issues

[1:50:39] that we deal with but try to do it collaboratively together. I don't mean to interrupt but

[1:50:44] corporation council would think like to get our attention. So you wouldn't mind clarifying.

[1:50:50] I think we're getting off the topic.

[1:50:53] Yeah, we want to stick to the jail study here to a certain degree.

[1:50:57] We're starting to drift.

[1:50:58] I know it's all related, but we'll get these questions answered.

[1:51:02] But let's try and bring it back in a little bit.

[1:51:05] So the supervisor will.

[1:51:06] Gary will.

[1:51:07] You got a question.

[1:51:09] We're good.

[1:51:11] So we're going to move on to the next section.

[1:51:13] I don't.

[1:51:13] You might be back sheriff.

[1:51:15] So.

[1:51:18] Yep.

[1:51:19] Okay.

[1:51:20] So the next few slides are really going to talk about

[1:51:23] population, bad analysis, and you're going to be able to see it

[1:51:27] in your printout better than on the screen.

[1:51:30] We have two or three lines there.

[1:51:32] The green is a combined population of state inmates

[1:51:39] and final account inmates.

[1:51:41] So when you guys opened up your edition in 2006, 2007,

[1:51:45] and the left side represents that you didn't have as many

[1:51:49] You can find a lack county inmates, so you had capacity to be able to house state inmates.

[1:51:55] So the green shows what your population is, the blue shows the final lack county inmates,

[1:52:03] and the yellow shows the state.

[1:52:06] So as your final lack county inmates increased, you did not have the capacity to have state inmates.

[1:52:13] It leads us to the next slide.

[1:52:16] It's not moving for me.

[1:52:23] I need a new click and we could put that on the internet.

[1:52:35] We'll shake the computer next. Maybe that way we did our own too much.

[1:52:40] Yeah, I need a new clicker.

[1:52:45] There we go. All right.

[1:52:47] We just had to talk about it now.

[1:52:48] So again, we're going to cruise through some of these.

[1:52:52] But this is a graph that we showed a represent 2020-23 and 2020-24 inmate population.

[1:53:01] And the red line, the red dotted line that you see there,

[1:53:05] is your capacity when it's full.

[1:53:09] And you need to explain rate of capacity

[1:53:12] and when the DOC considers it your full.

[1:53:14] So you have 335 beds in your jail.

[1:53:17] There is an 85% factor that the DOC looks at that says,

[1:53:22] when you get to 85% of your bed count, you are considered full.

[1:53:26] What that means is when you get to 285 individuals in your jail, you are over-capacity.

[1:53:35] The reason is is that that 15% is to allow for what I talked to you about earlier,

[1:53:40] is that if somebody comes in and is going to be arrested,

[1:53:44] that there's room to move them around.

[1:53:47] Where it starts to become complicated is when we don't have the proper classification

[1:53:50] to deal with that.

[1:53:52] So what you will see is in a large portion of the ladder part of 23 and all of 24 you guys are above capacity.

[1:54:00] Starting at the end of 24 and currently right now you guys are housing out of county 10 male inmates and 5 female inmates

[1:54:09] because you do not have the beds to be able to house them here.

[1:54:14] The element that's tied into those components is that as you start to look at these places to be able to take these inmates

[1:54:22] other counties don't have to take them, and that's the piece that we have to take into consideration when we're going to size your jail.

[1:54:30] The sheriff can call up to an adjacent county and say, hey, I need 10 beds for 10 males, and the next county would go, no, we're not taking them.

[1:54:39] Continue to go that way. If you went across the state of Wisconsin right now, beds are very hard to come very hard to come by.

[1:54:46] The other element that's tied into that is that the other counties only want to take your best inmates,

[1:54:54] meaning that those that are of the best behavior.

[1:54:57] So now you are left with the balance of those elements,

[1:55:00] the balance of those inmates to deal with the elements that they have to deal with.

[1:55:05] So Cory has done an analysis here and I'll maybe have you talk a little bit about these factors.

[1:55:10] But these projections here are based on the increases that we see over the course of the history of your

[1:55:16] of your average daily population.

[1:55:20] Well, when we do the analysis and a projection,

[1:55:23] we look at a couple historical data, your peak occupancy

[1:55:28] at a time, obviously, that graph before that fluctuates

[1:55:32] constantly on a daily basis.

[1:55:36] The flexibility we talked about classification,

[1:55:38] moving inmates from one area to another,

[1:55:42] as well as the 85% rule from the Department of Corrections,

[1:55:46] you only can house 85% before they start to consider that you're full.

[1:55:53] So those are all of the factors, again, the percentages that are indicated, sorry, I can't

[1:55:57] quite read them from this angle right now, but that is for historical data from we went

[1:56:04] back 10, 20 years throughout your jail and as far as your population and how and seeing that

[1:56:10] increase.

[1:56:11] So that's that percentage factor and then adjusting those for the peak and the flexibility

[1:56:16] and that maintenance factor for that age, right, percent.

[1:56:22] So you'll see the bottom number.

[1:56:23] The bottom number will give you a sticker shock.

[1:56:26] It was 554 beds.

[1:56:29] And that was a number that we dealt with your committee and we said,

[1:56:33] Hey, 554 beds would be your projection at your 20.

[1:56:37] If you continue to see your population increase at 1.75 percent for 20 years.

[1:56:43] You're going to build a jail, you're going to borrow money, and you're going to borrow money under a general obligation bond that takes you 20 years to pay it off.

[1:56:52] Taxpayers expect that that building, you're not going to have to invest more money in that in 20 years.

[1:56:59] So you have to give you this data.

[1:57:02] You don't have to decide to build a housing unit that's 554 beds.

[1:57:07] You can decide to do whatever that number looks like in regards to your approach.

[1:57:12] But this number is based on your historical increase and what your county has seen.

[1:57:18] And I have to tell you that the last year has really changed these numbers.

[1:57:23] Meaning that if we went back and revisited this over over a five year span,

[1:57:27] the number would probably be higher because we're floating it over 20 years.

[1:57:33] So, with that said, 564 beds is a big jail, you have 335 beds here today.

[1:57:41] So we have to start talking about, well, let's get into juvenile.

[1:57:45] You guys are unique, you're one of, I believe it's 12 facilities in the state of Wisconsin.

[1:57:51] Might be down to 11 now, that have juvenile detention facilities.

[1:57:57] You are rated for, I believe it's 26 beds, 27 beds, you currently were average about 12 people in there, 12 juveniles.

[1:58:09] I think your average of your own county is 4 to 6.

[1:58:14] And the juvenile piece is an element that some counties have said, do we want to stay in that business?

[1:58:20] Do we want to get out of the juvenile piece?

[1:58:23] Do we want to just ship them out of county?

[1:58:24] What you will find is that the out of county cost for a juvenile is higher than an adult.

[1:58:34] You will find that adult out of county charges daily are anywhere from 50 to 60 bucks a day.

[1:58:41] The juveniles are typically north of 200.

[1:58:45] 250 have heard 500.

[1:58:47] There's ranging numbers, but it becomes an expense to you the county if you have to house a juvenile out of house.

[1:58:53] So part of your equation is do we stay in the juvenile business?

[1:58:59] So to kind of give you an idea of the fluctuation and the numbers that are in there,

[1:59:02] it really shows you the difference in the chart.

[1:59:05] You guys can take time to be able to look at.

[1:59:07] It just shows what happens over 23 and 24.

[1:59:10] This line shows that the bottom line is your population.

[1:59:15] The top line is the state's population.

[1:59:18] There is a need for juvenile beds in the state of Wisconsin.

[1:59:22] The reason that we show this is that you have to ask yourself,

[1:59:27] does it make sense to continue to do juvenile detention?

[1:59:33] And do you bring out of County juveniles here as a potential revenue?

[1:59:37] Is this a decision to be made?

[1:59:40] It'll get into the equation.

[1:59:42] We're going to get into options here.

[1:59:45] Any questions on the bed analysis of how we got there?

[1:59:49] Supervisor Griffith.

[1:59:50] Yeah, thank you. I'm wondering I know that building for taking in inmates from other counties is not a good idea

[1:59:57] You can't cover your capital cost that way at all is it different?

[2:00:00] With juveniles? Is the economics really quite different?

[2:00:03] So, here's the way that I would say that. I don't ever recommend to build a jail for revenue.

[2:00:10] I'm not, I'm not of that position. But here's what I will say.

[2:00:13] Is that if you build a jail so that it will forecast and house your inmates for the foreseeable future,

[2:00:21] meaning 20 years and day one that you move in there, if you've got capacity there, and you

[2:00:27] have your jail staff properly, why not bring them in if the sheriff says let's do it, right?

[2:00:33] But don't get to your final number under the premise to say, hey, the state needs 100 beds,

[2:00:38] let's build 150 beds, do you have an hour of the tension?

[2:00:41] It's not why that's there.

[2:00:43] I think it's one of those where you ask yourself, if we average four to six and we'll get

[2:00:47] to the options, I've got a chart that shows you numbers.

[2:00:50] If you ask yourself if it's going to cost us three quarters of a million dollars on our operating budget to out of a cozy out of county

[2:00:57] How is our juveniles does it make sense to stay in the juvenile business?

[2:01:02] You guys know you're operating budget.

[2:01:03] It's going to come out of your operating line.

[2:01:05] So we'll get to that.

[2:01:07] Great question.

[2:01:09] Okay.

[2:01:10] No, that's it.

[2:01:11] We can move on.

[2:01:13] All right.

[2:01:13] So in order to get options,

[2:01:18] Venture went through a space programming exercise and what that is is to identify all of the rooms that would be needed in a law enforcement center or a justice center and put some square footages to them.

[2:01:35] This is an exercise to be able to size the concepts that we're going to show you so we can show you how many square feet they are.

[2:01:43] Now, there is factors in here, there is a grossing factor, the grossing factor would be this.

[2:01:48] If this room is 50 by 70, and we say, okay, we need a 3,500 square foot room,

[2:01:56] we're going to put a grossing factor on top of that because we have to account for the walls,

[2:02:01] the square footage of the walls, we have to account for the square footage of the corridors,

[2:02:05] and we have to account for the square footage of the stairwells that would have to be used for movement within the building.

[2:02:13] It's an exercise that the architects use to be able to get to a massing number.

[2:02:17] We went through that exercise here to be able to identify a 450-bed jail with a

[2:02:24] sheriff's office associated with that, with the vehicle garage associated with that,

[2:02:31] and with the court system associated with that.

[2:02:36] The numbers that we got to for just a law enforcement center, if you were going to build

[2:02:40] law enforcement center was 297,000 square feet.

[2:02:45] If you were going to build a justice center, which would mean jail, including all jail support,

[2:02:51] kitchen, laundry, salary port, pre-book, intake, the sheriff's office, training center,

[2:02:57] and all of the court suite, what we mean by that is judges, chambers, the judges, staff,

[2:03:02] the court rooms, the jury rooms, all the corridors that were tied into that DA's office.

[2:03:07] Did we have child support in that?

[2:03:09] Okay, child support in there, it gets you to this massing number of 413,000 square feet.

[2:03:15] It doesn't mean that's where the building is going to be, but it has to be a starting point

[2:03:18] so that we can use this as our conceptual numbers. So then we get into options.

[2:03:24] And the options that you see here are two scale of your plan of your campus here to say,

[2:03:32] does it fit. This option right here is the one that I wanted to work because the orange box

[2:03:41] that you see on the west side of the campus is where you could park your housing unit to

[2:03:48] be able to build your jail and it would be right next to the courts. It shortens the distance

[2:03:55] between the courts and the housing unit. The problem with that is that we are going over

[2:04:01] river. So that option was quickly kicked to the curb because it didn't make sense in regards

[2:04:07] to the topography that's tied into your campus. This next option was if we looked at putting

[2:04:15] a housing unit on the north end of your campus that is 150 bed footprint, that actually means

[2:04:24] that we have to vacate the street to the north. Why can't you remember the name of the street to the

[2:04:29] Second, if we vacate that street to the north obviously that becomes a very big decision to vacate a street in the city.

[2:04:39] So those parameters didn't work, but in this option, in order to get here, because our discussion was build a smaller housing unit, not 450 beds, but a smaller housing unit, and then renovate the first, third and fourth floors of this building.

[2:04:59] and make it a jail. We have to figure out where everybody else is going, but it was an exercise

[2:05:05] that we went through to say, could we make this area a jail above and below the courts?

[2:05:13] There wasn't a good idea, but we'll show you why. They laid out each one of these pods.

[2:05:19] So each one of the floor of this building, they took and made a pod design that would be that circular look.

[2:05:27] The problem that we ran into is that we were only able to get to 288 beds with this model,

[2:05:34] so it was a smaller bed count than what you currently have today.

[2:05:38] And it was very staff intensive.

[2:05:41] Every floor needed to have additional posts for them.

[2:05:45] Remember how we told you that the one dot that's in the middle could be one person that could

[2:05:48] handle both floors?

[2:05:50] Now they have to only deal with one half of your building.

[2:05:53] So we vastly increased your staffing numbers.

[2:05:58] I want to explain to you what that staffing number looks like.

[2:06:02] One of those posts, one of those red dots, should represent a half a million dollars in

[2:06:07] your mind.

[2:06:08] Here's why it represents a half a million dollars, because that post requires five full-time

[2:06:14] correctional officers, and you go, wait, what does that mean five?

[2:06:19] It's 24, 7, 365.

[2:06:22] So when we start to look at shifts and there's way you see, you can break it down whether it's eight hours or 12 hours shift, there's a factor of 4.3 or 4.7,

[2:06:30] I always use five to air on the side of conservativeness that you need five people in each one of them.

[2:06:35] And if you say with the salary and the benefits of that correctional offer, that's a half a million dollar decision,

[2:06:40] that's a half a million dollar decision that you have to add to your operating budget, you can't borrow for it.

[2:06:45] So quickly, this is why this one became ineffective because we were doing this on every floor.

[2:06:51] You see all the red dots that start to add up?

[2:06:54] That one didn't make sense in regards to an operational piece.

[2:06:58] So then we got into this option and I don't know that we know more than showed it to the committee

[2:07:05] and what it was doing to the park across the street and it was a quick no, right?

[2:07:10] So, we've got to show where it's at, what it would consume.

[2:07:15] This was one that the committee said, don't thank you,

[2:07:19] because we're going to deal with that transfer.

[2:07:23] I just had us put a little bit of movement,

[2:07:26] and I don't know if you can see those little dots moving.

[2:07:28] But here's a challenge with...

[2:07:30] Every one of these concepts that we put down here. Do you remember that corridor that I showed you that we

[2:07:37] would move inmates from housing to the courts? In each one of these models, we're going to show you that. We are actually

[2:07:45] extending that court transport corridor in each one of these options. It doesn't get any better, just because of the configuration of where

[2:07:53] needs to be. The next option, why isn't that? There we go. This next one was going to the

[2:08:01] self, parking lot to the self. And in this model, this model represents 350 bed pods. The orange

[2:08:11] are those 150 bed pods. It'd be a 450 bed edition, the green little line that's across

[2:08:18] a western there would be a skywalk and the grid that's below there is jail support.

[2:08:26] So on your lower level, you would have your vehicle salary port, pre-book, booking, intake,

[2:08:34] jail support also includes kitchen and laundry and the blue represents juvenile detention.

[2:08:40] So that gets your law enforcement center addition across the street.

[2:08:45] The movement on this one again, now we have just moved it in an entire city block and

[2:08:51] per scale, it doesn't do it justice.

[2:08:53] When I walk that corridor the first time with Sheriff, I'm like, you're kidding, because

[2:08:58] they're moving people with shackles up and down that corridor.

[2:09:04] So now we're going to extend that another city block.

[2:09:06] But this is an option that was presented to the committee as well.

[2:09:11] There's a lot of things that come into play here, because we start to talk about the renovation.

[2:09:17] People have asked about renovation of the jail. Can we renovate the jail the way it is?

[2:09:21] And the answer is, the jail can be renovated, but the reinvent, renovating the jail is going to be expensive.

[2:09:27] Because when you go in to gut a building, it's easy if I take Stuz and Drywell and I knock the walls down.

[2:09:34] In a jail, every one of those walls is concrete block that has a rebar that's inside of it and is slushed with concrete.

[2:09:42] So now there's the demolition to be able to get to that point is very very extensive.

[2:09:48] In order to renovate the jail, because of all of the code deficiencies, it would be a near-complete gut

[2:09:55] because we have to bring everything up to code and you've got a lot of mechanical electrical issues.

[2:09:59] You would have to displace all of your inmates for a period of time.

[2:10:05] Now these projects don't get done overnight.

[2:10:08] We're talking about an 18 month to 24 month duration on a renovation of that space.

[2:10:14] And if you did the math at 60 bucks a day for your adults and 250 bucks a day for your juveniles,

[2:10:22] if you're going to house them out of county,

[2:10:24] you're probably somewhere in the neighborhood of six to seven million dollars a year,

[2:10:27] Which is an operating component. So now you have to look at where do we build new so that we're not displacing our jail we have to find an option that our jail

[2:10:35] can continue to function as it is until we give them a new home.

[2:10:40] So the renovation of that sheriff's office that we show here would have to be space that isn't jail after the fact is we have to have a place to put those inmates.

[2:10:47] So we would have to come back and renovate that purple or that pink space for sheriff's office space.

[2:10:54] The next option here, this was just a different configuration of the one on the east side and again that represents Veterans Park so that was a quick know.

[2:11:07] This one here was another configuration where it wasn't stacked, but we gotled up more of the neighborhood there.

[2:11:16] So there's obviously housing that would be consumed in regards to the jail support.

[2:11:20] the red was what was undercover before, so we did an analysis of if we did this all as one level

[2:11:27] that we weren't stacking them. The reason about the stacking is when you stack those buildings,

[2:11:33] so every time you stack a housing unit, you have to add additional staff with the in-mate movement

[2:11:38] within that housing unit. So you start to add another post and rehearse to just movement. That's why

[2:11:43] that one level housing, which would be two, it's actually two stories, but it's only one

[2:11:49] correctional officer is your most cost-effective operating model.

[2:11:57] So the other option was if we move your operation

[2:12:01] out to the highway shop site.

[2:12:05] When we started here, it was told us

[2:12:08] that that was kind of a vision or a concept

[2:12:11] that was considered by the county.

[2:12:14] You acquired some property.

[2:12:15] You built the highway shop out there with the intention

[2:12:18] that maybe someday the geode would go out there as well.

[2:12:21] So, this model here shows what a law enforcement center would look like out at the highway shop.

[2:12:28] The orange represent your 150-bed housing units.

[2:12:33] The red represents your vehicles, or the little orange vehicle salary port, the red represents your booking, your receiving, your intake, all of your kitchen and laundry.

[2:12:48] And then the small one on the corner would be a juvenile pod, that was 30 beds, and the blue was the vehicle garage.

[2:12:58] We're here at the office, here at the office, and then the vehicle garage would be on the opposite side there.

[2:13:02] So we're essentially taking the same square footage here and we're placing it out at the highway shop.

[2:13:09] Challenge with this option is that we have to come downtown and do remodeling for your courts.

[2:13:16] And if you look at the floor plan that's on the right-hand side, this is going down into that lower level so it would be the ramp that's on the west side of your campus and going down into the lower level and we would then create holding cells down on that lower level.

[2:13:32] So that transport from your jail would have to come over to these cells that would be in your lower level so that those individuals could be housed in that holding cell until they were head to go to court.

[2:13:42] And in order to get them up to court, the model on the back side or on the bottom side shows

[2:13:48] that we would put an elevator on the outside of the building, and then we would come

[2:13:52] into the court or that's already there.

[2:13:55] Still doesn't solve your security issues of walking through the court or to your courts,

[2:14:00] because your courts would need to be reconfigured.

[2:14:02] That has not been fixed or addressed in this model.

[2:14:05] So this is just getting from a removed location for your jail to hear, to be able to give you a spot for your inmates to be able to be housed before they go into court.

[2:14:21] The other thing that complicates this is that now you have to add additional staff.

[2:14:25] So working with the sheriff, there is an estimated 10 additional staff that we need to be added.

[2:14:30] And if you look at the calculation down below, it's almost $1.1 million annually for those staff to be there,

[2:14:40] which would include the acquisition of transport vehicles.

[2:14:44] The bottom of this sheet shows you that over the course of the next one to 50 years,

[2:14:51] if you look at and pay increase of your staff because that would change of 2%, 3%, 4%,

[2:14:56] percent you can see with that escalation value would be over the

[2:15:00] Of course, of those years. So the number starts to become very large, and that's on your operating side. So in 10 years, that would be 1.3 or almost 1.4 million dollars annual component, and then you can see what those numbers escalate to in regards to the years beyond that.

[2:15:20] Justice Center concept, it's basically taking the model that we showed you with a law enforcement center, and we've placed the courts function on the second floor.

[2:15:28] And that's in the model where you have all of the sheriff's office and the jail function

[2:15:34] on the first floor and then the suites up above to be able to, the court suites up above.

[2:15:40] So you use elevator movement to be able to get them into holding cells.

[2:15:43] It would be a short trip from housing into the court space and this would be the campus

[2:15:48] that's out on that by the highway shop for the justice center.

[2:15:54] This is just another configuration to show it on.

[2:15:56] We've tweaked it, part of the discussion when we were at the committee, we started at this and then we squared it up.

[2:16:03] So that's why you see this one is more of a squared version.

[2:16:05] This was the original concept that we were showing because there's actually an easement there that we have to deal with.

[2:16:12] This is a rough configuration of what that courts floor would look like.

[2:16:15] You see the purple or blue ones that are the court rooms and then the space around that and then there are holding cells within each one of those court rooms.

[2:16:26] You want to be able to have those holding cells come in between two courtroom so that they can quickly go into those spaces

[2:16:32] That's how you do it. So you don't have to cross corridors. This would give you a concept in regards to what that configuration would look like on the second floor again

[2:16:39] Not finalized, but it gives you the model in which that would be accomplished.

[2:16:46] What do we do downtown? That's the big question. If you moved out of here with all of your operations, what do you do downtown?

[2:16:53] The quick answer is we didn't have a great solution for that.

[2:16:58] This was an option that was considered and what this represents is that the orange portion of the building that's there is the building that you're in right here.

[2:17:06] The green space or the green area that's there would become parking lot.

[2:17:10] You would take down the sheriff's office, you would take down the jail, you would leave this as a government center.

[2:17:16] And then the sheriff's office and the jail would become a parking lot for the government center.

[2:17:23] And the light blue area across this way could be private development.

[2:17:28] You could take the county parking lot.

[2:17:30] You could sell it to somebody in the private sector.

[2:17:33] And it was a discussion about whether that wanted to be housing,

[2:17:35] whether that wanted to be an apartment structure.

[2:17:37] That would be a way in order to generate revenue on the sale,

[2:17:40] as well as a tax base.

[2:17:42] Again, not a final conclusion,

[2:17:44] but it was an option and a consideration that was discussed at the committee level.

[2:17:50] All right.

[2:17:50] through a lot at you, questions before I give you a cost of each one of them.

[2:17:58] Supervisor Hayes.

[2:18:01] You're stand, why you cannot stack those pod buildings?

[2:18:06] Ken, great question.

[2:18:08] And I don't understand what the problem is with that.

[2:18:11] We can.

[2:18:11] We actually just finished one, and I could take you there in, in Tori there.

[2:18:15] We just finished Wood County and Wood County built a 300-bed jail,

[2:18:21] and we stacked it because we didn't have the real estate.

[2:18:23] do anything more. And we actually talked about that is that you could stack the 150-bed model

[2:18:31] whether you go to high, three high, four high, it could be an element of that. And we talked

[2:18:37] about it at the committee level that it's not staff-efficient because we added more staff to

[2:18:43] be able to deal with the flow, but it can be done. I will tell you and I'll get to that is that

[2:18:50] But as the committee was considering these things and operationally, everybody was leaning

[2:18:55] towards, I shouldn't say everybody, most people were leaning towards the model that's out

[2:19:01] by the highway shop.

[2:19:03] Once they saw the cost, then it was why can't we stack them?

[2:19:06] Or is there a consideration of stacking them?

[2:19:08] That was kind of the discussion that was there.

[2:19:10] But to answer your question, simply is, it could be done.

[2:19:15] But here's the decision that happens if you start to stack that.

[2:19:18] If we stack it, we'll back here,

[2:19:27] best one would be, that's one.

[2:19:32] If you took the parking lot across the street, and if you took that upper left hand corner

[2:19:39] orange box, and you said I want to stack that to make 300 beds, now you've just freed

[2:19:48] up one other one spot of that space that's there.

[2:19:53] We would then have to move the Sally port, and this is what we did at wood.

[2:19:57] We moved the jail support underneath there.

[2:19:59] The Sally port, the intake, the jail support, which would be the kitchen and laundry under

[2:20:05] those elements.

[2:20:07] We could build that as a 300-bed jail with the support below that, but we still have to do

[2:20:14] connection to be able to get into the quarter into the courthouse and it doesn't address all

[2:20:20] the court elements so we're in there. So we would have to go in and address the court

[2:20:23] elements as well. Okay, so I want to ask about that. Where you show the sheriff office

[2:20:29] renovations to the what would be the west is still is current jail, correct? Correct.

[2:20:35] Because it's obviously been stated tonight. We need more court space. So where you have that

[2:20:42] office renovations, you could do court renovations and share of

[2:20:47] renovations in that entire space is my question. Yes, so that's it would

[2:20:52] actually ask that the committee about doing that and that's where when I

[2:20:55] explained about the renovation of the jail, renovation of the jail becomes very

[2:21:00] expensive. Not that you can't do it, but I will tell you that it is one of those

[2:21:05] things that I'm expecting will be asked to be explored further based on the cost

[2:21:10] that were given to the committee at the end of their meeting.

[2:21:14] Your question is relevant, and I think it will be a question that's asked.

[2:21:18] Okay, but I'm not talking about a renovation.

[2:21:20] I'm talking about a new jail construction going up across the way,

[2:21:25] and then complete new reconstruction, maybe where the sheriff's office and all that.

[2:21:29] Yeah, you're saying renovate the sheriff's office to be courts and build the new jail across the street.

[2:21:35] That's what you're saying.

[2:21:37] Well, in a new sheriff's office, yeah.

[2:21:38] You're talking about taking all of that down if you go out.

[2:21:43] Yes.

[2:21:43] And I'm talking about taking that all down and renovate the courts and the sheriff's office.

[2:21:49] All that stuff.

[2:21:52] I'll hand this out while you're asking more questions.

[2:22:01] Supervisor Luring.

[2:22:03] Yeah, I just wanted to say I feel like

[2:22:07] Mad enough options were really explored.

[2:22:10] I don't.

[2:22:11] I came.

[2:22:12] What I'll do respect to Angela.

[2:22:14] There was seven meetings where we talked and I went to I went to all of them except seven meetings

[2:22:19] I would all do respect as they weren't explored. They were now you're getting everything that this committee saw in a two-hour presentation and I

[2:22:30] Don't think it's respectful on your part to say that it hadn't been gone through. It was gone through.

[2:22:35] Now, maybe you don't like the results of what they came to, but it was the only recommendation.

[2:22:41] So I just want you to say that it's an example.

[2:22:43] Yeah. Well, I didn't get to finish. So what I'm saying is I went to all of those jail ad hoc committee meetings.

[2:22:51] I believe I missed one for being sick. I want to say that I don't feel,

[2:22:57] I personally have heard other ideas and I have not seen a bunch of blue prints that show that all these options have been explored to keep things in the city.

[2:23:10] I mean, I like her option. I also want to say that I heard an option from a former judge who said that why can't we keep the juveniles and a pod for people who are no longer waiting for court in the city.

[2:23:27] And then have the courts and the jails move out of town.

[2:23:31] I mean, I understand the importance of keeping everything together,

[2:23:35] get together, it's safer, it's more cost-effective.

[2:23:39] And I am for that.

[2:23:40] And I know we need a new jail,

[2:23:42] but there are things that I think that could still be explored.

[2:23:45] So I'm not being disrespectful.

[2:23:47] I'm just doing due diligence for the people in the county

[2:23:53] that are coming to me and they are saying these things

[2:23:56] me. I do feel like we need to explore more options. I just don't. I mean, we have one set of consultants.

[2:24:05] And I think you're doing a great job and I'm not trying to disrespect you. But I feel like when we

[2:24:11] have another, you know, when we have more people looking at it, you come up with more options. And

[2:24:18] I don't know what you think about that idea, but there are people no longer waiting for court.

[2:24:22] And they could be housed in a supper pod.

[2:24:26] And they don't have to be attached to a jail.

[2:24:29] I mean, to a court.

[2:24:30] So let me stress that we're not

[2:24:32] asking for a definitive decision tonight.

[2:24:35] So I don't want anybody to feel that way.

[2:24:37] Tonight is presenting to you what the ad hoc committee

[2:24:40] has gone through.

[2:24:41] What I have typically seen happen is that there

[2:24:43] will be dialogue on this floor.

[2:24:45] And then this initiative is

[2:24:47] then directed to a standing committee that then vets some

[2:24:50] of what you're talking about, right?

[2:24:52] What you're asking for is not out of line, but have to understand that there has been

[2:24:59] consideration for multiple things that we haven't even shown in drawing form because

[2:25:03] we've tried to condenses to present this to you outside of what we've been able to navigate.

[2:25:09] The point of a lot of this decision is what you have to consider.

[2:25:14] You were making a decision for the county for the next 50 years and here's what I want

[2:25:20] to stress. Master planning in its entirety is having a vision for the next 50 years for this

[2:25:29] county. If you decide that you are going to park a jail down here and you're going to put

[2:25:35] it down town, you have to have a game plan for what are you doing with all of the other

[2:25:40] buildings that when they've lived their life, how are they going to be replaced down here?

[2:25:46] What you have down here is you don't have enough real estate to accomplish that, that is the biggest component.

[2:25:53] It's not saying that you can't do it.

[2:25:56] It's not saying that you guys can't decide to do that.

[2:25:59] It's just that, know that you've made that decision because right now, if you decide you're going to build a jail down here,

[2:26:05] you're going to be tied into that.

[2:26:07] You guys have been, you have this jail here for 70 years and you've continued to tag onto it.

[2:26:12] That's where you have to ask when, and is it the right time to make a move?

[2:26:15] That's all this is evaluating, and I think the numbers when we get into that are going to impact you guys as a county to make those decisions, just because of what's happening with the markets.

[2:26:27] Any more questions?

[2:26:29] Supervisor Brawl.

[2:26:31] Yeah.

[2:26:32] I just have a question because none of the options that you presented have any outdoor space.

[2:26:37] And I was wondering if you could just talk a little bit about why that is.

[2:26:40] Outdoor space.

[2:26:41] Any outdoor space available for people who are incarcerated to spend any time outdoors?

[2:26:45] It's not required by the DOC to give them outdoor wreck, so typically we have not been

[2:26:52] including that in the designs. There are a whole host of issues that come with outdoor space

[2:26:59] for inmates, especially in our drone world nowadays. There are a lot of things that complicate that.

[2:27:07] Now, if it's something that you decide as a group to be able to make that decision,

[2:27:11] That would have to be something that the sheriff would agree to, the DOC would agree to, but we have not been including those in recent bills just because of the issues associated with being able to secure that.

[2:27:24] So you haven't had any projects where they've included any outdoor recreation spaces?

[2:27:28] So here's what we've done. It may sound a little quirky, but we give them wreck space.

[2:27:33] And the wreck space we make it two stories high. So in that housing unit where you said where we saw the office or station now

[2:27:41] We've made it two stories high, so they're getting into this expanse. On the second level

[2:27:46] We have actually put in a secure lever up there with a garage door. I know it sounds hokey

[2:27:52] But here's what it does the garage door then is able to be lifted when the weather permits and they are able to get fresh air into that space and they're able to get daylight

[2:28:00] and it is a large space so that the people can get in there and deal with being able to move

[2:28:06] about a bigger space to be able to take in the fresh air, but it is kind of a happy medium

[2:28:13] between outdoor space and something that's still secure. We've done that on the last couple

[2:28:18] that we've designed and built. Is that what you were going to? I've done one just recently

[2:28:24] for outdoor space. Again, like Kurt said, there's a lot of implications to that that enclosed.

[2:28:32] It's not in a public space, so downtown, if you did it here, would be more difficult because

[2:28:38] you can't have sight and sound with public and anybody who's incarcerated. So there's

[2:28:45] a lot of security issues with that, especially down here. But we have done one in the last 40 years.

[2:28:53] Thank you, I appreciate the information.

[2:28:57] What we've got one more supervisor, Dean Will.

[2:29:00] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[2:29:03] As far as the ad hoc and talking about trying to keep the campus stone down town, a couple

[2:29:12] of the private sector folks that were on the ad hoc, they really want the very vision was to keep a

[2:29:20] on. Clearly, and after going through all of the meetings and discussion and questions, they

[2:29:28] both came to the conclusion that it just wasn't feasible to do that. Plus, I think Kurt

[2:29:35] has brought up several times that if I can use the baseball analogy as far as a major lead

[2:29:44] this is just any number one. There's a long road ahead in there. Once if it's approved tonight

[2:29:51] for this to go to the committee of jurisdiction, then they'll be doing a lot more work more depth into this.

[2:30:00] So, I want everybody to take a deep breath and just relax and don't panic and think that this is going to be yet that we have to decide tonight, because that's not the case, is this going to take a little time, so thank you.

[2:30:12] Thank you.

[2:30:13] I'd like what I'd like to do is take this opportunity, because I think it was appropriate. I probably should have did it earlier, but because we're, this is where we're at. I want to read to the, to the county board and the public, what the recommendation was from the ad hoc committee,

[2:30:29] because it was in the minutes, but I get the impression that a lot of people had not read that.

[2:30:36] So, just bear with me for a moment here, let's see.

[2:30:41] The consensus of the committee was that there needs, we need to do something with a jail in general.

[2:30:49] They felt like the jail and the justice center needed to stay together if possible.

[2:30:54] And the Justice Center module was supported, but cost was a major factor.

[2:31:01] So I think they acknowledged right away that this thing is, it's a big deal.

[2:31:06] And then the final thing was that we needed to have a communication plan not only to the

[2:31:12] county board, but to the committee.

[2:31:14] Those were the four things that came out of the recommendation from them.

[2:31:19] The next steps, there's a whole long list of next steps that we're presented here.

[2:31:28] This, I believe there was seven or eight of them, we're only on step two.

[2:31:33] And that's to present it to you guys what the ad hoc committee thought.

[2:31:37] Nothing, none of this is final.

[2:31:39] Committee of jurisdiction can go back and review things and say,

[2:31:43] I know this is what the ad hoc committee said, but as a county board,

[2:31:46] this is the way we feel.

[2:31:48] So I don't want to give the impression, like Kurt said,

[2:31:52] that this is the way it is.

[2:31:54] This is the beginning.

[2:31:56] And we're just reviewing what the ad hoc committee saw.

[2:31:59] We're taking, they had seven meetings.

[2:32:01] We're compiling all that into a two hour session here.

[2:32:05] So there's going to be some soft skipped over.

[2:32:08] And I apologize for that, but unless you want to sit

[2:32:11] through a 14 hour meeting, I don't think it was practical.

[2:32:14] They review everything.

[2:32:15] So with that I'll leave it back to Curtin.

[2:32:19] All right, so costs.

[2:32:21] This slide is something that I think is very important.

[2:32:25] It made that mean much to you.

[2:32:28] And I see that it's represented in my little white arrows

[2:32:31] aren't pointing to where I want on the point.

[2:32:33] I want the white arrows to point to the blue line.

[2:32:36] So what I did is I went back historically

[2:32:39] on projects that we have completed

[2:32:41] that our correctional construction projects means that there's a jail, there's a court

[2:32:47] component, there's a correctional component to each one of these over the course

[2:32:51] of the last 15 years. And this shows you a cost per square foot because if you ever want

[2:32:58] to just take a time and Google and say how much did I pay for my house per square foot,

[2:33:02] how much did I pay for a jail, there's going to be varying levels of what those numbers

[2:33:07] are. This represents projects that were actually hard-bid. And I want to stress that to you.

[2:33:14] But I'm giving you numbers tonight. These are estimates and projections based on conceptual

[2:33:20] data in a history that we can then tie to that. But we get done with this. Everything on this

[2:33:27] project, bricks and mortar will be hard-bid. It has to be hard-bid because we're dealing with

[2:33:32] dollars. So you will have a concrete number, but these are projections. What you can see from

[2:33:37] 2009, the cost per square foot was $193 dollars a square foot. If you see from 2009 until

[2:33:47] 2021, it was relatively consistent with its increases. To the point of about a six and a quarter

[2:33:55] percent increase per year. What happened to our world from 21 to 24 was that 31% bump.

[2:34:05] And I can very candidly tell you, I took bumps and bruises on that on projects that I

[2:34:12] helped put budgets together because you used historical data. What happened with our COVID

[2:34:17] market absolutely rocked our world. And right now in 2024, the cost per square foot for the

[2:34:24] bid that we had were $875 a square foot. When I show you what we're forecasting on your

[2:34:33] square foot cost on these master plans, I'm using a thousand dollars a square foot. You can

[2:34:38] tell me I'm crazy. Go ahead and tell me I'm crazy. And I can tell you I'm doing

[2:34:43] a favor by giving you what that projection would be. And my concern is that the way

[2:34:50] So markets continue to grow and how long you guys decide, take to decide, can drive that.

[2:34:57] So I just want to point out to you, we bid Wood County in 2022.

[2:35:03] 500 and what is it, E4, around 600 bucks a square foot, right?

[2:35:08] They did a 300-bed jail in Wood County for 98 million dollars.

[2:35:15] I'm going to show you a 450-bed jail today and you're going to tell me I'm crazy, it's

[2:35:19] because markets drive it.

[2:35:21] It's not because we're putting any fluff in there.

[2:35:24] It's because that's what the bid markets are for material and laborers and how it's increased.

[2:35:29] Here's the message that should come out of that.

[2:35:32] If you decide that you need to build a jail, the sooner you build it, the better your solution.

[2:35:38] Because you are shortening up that amount of time for the cost to go up.

[2:35:43] If you don't think you need a jail, then take whatever time you need.

[2:35:46] But if it's clear to you that you need to build a jail,

[2:35:49] So that is a decision that needs to be made sooner than later so that you can eliminate or shorten that amount of time for that price to go up.

[2:36:00] This next component here is a chart that I got from Beard.

[2:36:05] I've worked with Beard on a couple of projects as their bond council and they will assist with some of those borrowings.

[2:36:15] This was just a chart that he used on one of my, one of the other counties that I was dealing with and I told him I said hey, I really like that chart.

[2:36:22] Can I steal it from you? He said actually, I'll actually help you put a chart together and what this was back when I presented this to the committee.

[2:36:28] You can see that the general obligation bonds, because that's what you're going to ask yourself, is how much are we going to borrow for?

[2:36:34] And at the time when I showed this to the committee, it was either in November or December, it was that right hand number, that 4.01%.

[2:36:42] So if you do the quick math, every year that you wait if we're in the, if we're in the, the common time of the slide before it's going to cost you 6.25% if you wait a year for the price to go up.

[2:36:55] If you would have borrowed, it was going to cost you 4% so you've just saved yourself 2.25% because you decided to build because you're going to borrow for.

[2:37:06] And this chart also shows you that the parameters that are in there and the end is when it was in 2024.

[2:37:14] You'll see the big dip that was down in 2021, 2022.

[2:37:17] I had some counties that I worked with. They borrowed for less than 2%.

[2:37:21] That's not the norm. As you see the norm that's in there, you kind of give you that median line.

[2:37:26] That median line as you go across there was just above 4%.

[2:37:30] If you use this 4% factor as your average, it's going to be a pretty good calculation of what

[2:37:36] you're borrowing may be. So, here's the number that is typically a very important number

[2:37:44] for constituents and for county board members, is that I broke this down into $100 million segments. So,

[2:37:53] If you borrowed $100 million to do a project, it's going to cost you 41 cents per thousand

[2:37:59] on your property evaluation.

[2:38:03] So if your property is assessed for $100,000, your taxes will go up $41.

[2:38:10] If your property is assessed for $200,000, your taxes will go up $82.

[2:38:18] Okay?

[2:38:18] That's if you borrow $100 million.

[2:38:20] If you borrow $200 million, the $100,000 evaluation is going to pay $82 in taxes, your $200,000

[2:38:33] of valuation will pay $164 in a tax increase.

[2:38:38] And it goes up from there.

[2:38:40] So you can do the calculations in there.

[2:38:42] I've keep in these in segments that you can then easily do the math to say,

[2:38:46] Okay, here's a range of what we think our constituents would be able to deal with.

[2:38:53] So, this next chart is the one that I handed out to you, and we're going to spend some

[2:38:57] time on this, I apologize, I know I'm running longer than I should have.

[2:39:02] Each one of these columns represents the options or some of the options that we talked about.

[2:39:10] We didn't put a number to all of them.

[2:39:12] We did the one that was across the street where we were going to do the jail edition for a 450-bed jail and then we were going to do the needed renovation because it was renovation in order for us to get that corridor over to the courts.

[2:39:27] So in that first option or this first column, you'll see that, and these are all the same across, it's for a 450-bed jail.

[2:39:33] So, this one here shows that we're going to keep the juvenile center where we've got it,

[2:39:41] 26 beds.

[2:39:43] The gross programming square footage, that's where I showed you that it was the square

[2:39:48] footage before of a grossing factor.

[2:39:51] Typically, when you get into the next level of design, you'll see about a 5% decrease when

[2:39:56] you get into the schematic design because now you have a floor plan, you can skinning up some

[2:40:00] of those allowances.

[2:40:01] So we're anticipating that that would get down to 267,385 square feet if we do 1,000 bucks

[2:40:09] of square foot, that's going to be a $267 million project, for a $100,000 evaluation.

[2:40:18] Their taxes would go up $110.

[2:40:24] Clearers mud.

[2:40:27] Now you can go across the way here, let's just stay in that upper bracket there.

[2:40:31] So if we did a new law enforcement center at the new site and we renovate the court holding or I showed you we were going to put the holding cells down on the lower level and the elevator on the outside

[2:40:41] That numbers 262,000 dollars or 262 million dollars. I wish it was 262,000 two hundred and sixty two million dollars and it would be a dollar eight

[2:40:53] For 100,000

[2:40:55] The next one is would be a new law enforcement center and a juvenile detention

[2:40:59] So in that first option here we got out of the juvenile detention option, we're not doing juvenile detention anymore.

[2:41:07] The third option we're staying in the juvenile business and we're going to build a new juvenile detention center out there of 30 beds.

[2:41:14] So we'd have a 450 bed jail, 30 bed juvenile detention center, our square footage after schematic would be 285,000.

[2:41:23] It would be a $285 million project that would cost a $17 for $100,000 or $117 for $100,000

[2:41:33] valuation.

[2:41:36] If we did the New Justice Center on the new site without the juvenile detention, so we just

[2:41:42] did a doubt out there.

[2:41:43] Without the juvenile detention, that would be a $370 million job at a buck 52.

[2:41:49] And if we did everything out there, meaning the 450-bed jail through 30-bed juvenile and all of the courts and the court's suite, it's a $392 million dollar project.

[2:42:02] Now, if you look between the two red lines here below, it shows you the juvenile expense.

[2:42:08] Remember when I told you that you guys have four to six juveniles?

[2:42:13] I think I did this. It's six beds. I did this based on six beds at 250 bucks a day.

[2:42:19] In the first option, you're staying in the juvenile business so you're housing your own people,

[2:42:23] so it doesn't cost you anything on your operating budget.

[2:42:27] In the second option, when you get out of the juvenile business, it's going to cost you 547,

[2:42:32] thousand five hundred dollars if you have six juveniles at 250 bucks a day.

[2:42:38] And that's for each of those options.

[2:42:40] Now, if you look at 20 years, so let's say that you stay at six juveniles over 20 years,

[2:42:45] that's what your outer county expense would be for 20 years.

[2:42:47] It's just a calculation for 20 is almost 11 million and your 50 year is almost 20 is over 27 million.

[2:42:56] Between the next two red lines is your transport cost.

[2:42:59] So if you look at the first one obviously we don't have to deal with moving inmates from one site to the other.

[2:43:05] We're staying on site so no change in line two and three.

[2:43:10] This was at one point one million dollar transport cost that I showed you for staff and vehicles.

[2:43:15] over 10 years or 20 years, you'd spend $28 million and over 50 years, you'd spend $121 million

[2:43:22] in transport.

[2:43:27] The design construction duration, you can show the time that's to design it and build

[2:43:32] it. That's how long it would take before you're actually moving in. The annual housing revenue,

[2:43:39] so this was the model that Kat had just asked about. So what I did is if you build the 450

[2:43:46] bed jail day one, you're not overbuilding, you're doing it based on what your projection would be.

[2:43:52] But you would have 30 beds available day one and that's probably conservative. You might have

[2:43:57] 50 but you got to keep your variable in there for maintenance. You would potentially have revenue of

[2:44:03] $657,000 if we did it at 60 bucks a day of out of county adult housing. And you can see across each one of

[2:44:10] of what that out housing would be if you went to 450 and then the 20 year and 50 year would be your revenue.

[2:44:18] So you would get revenue, but if your population continues to increase and the 30 beds goes down, you're revenue goes down.

[2:44:26] Because you don't have the beds to rent anymore.

[2:44:29] And then the juvenile housing, this one was at 10 beds.

[2:44:33] So right now I think you're housing about six juveniles from out of county.

[2:44:40] If we did a 30-bed jail, a 30-bed juvenile, you'd have about 10, so we're doing a projection

[2:44:45] there at 250 bucks a day, so where you have the 30-bed juvenile on those two options,

[2:44:50] you would have a new of $912,000 a year, and then you could see the projection for the

[2:44:55] 20 and 50 year.

[2:44:58] The bottom line was showing.

[2:45:00] I think if you added another 150-bed housing, because we talked about that we were at 554, we're

[2:45:05] going to build 450, so the question is, on that model if we added another 150-bed pod, how much

[2:45:10] of that cost, and it would be $45 million.

[2:45:16] So is that enough to let your head swim?

[2:45:22] That's

[2:45:22] a lot of numbers. Yeah, and I got to tell you, none of them are real attractive, right?

[2:45:27] it's expensive. And the reality is is that the cost of that type of construction isn't going

[2:45:36] to go down. History tells me that it's not going to go down. I showed you a graph that showed

[2:45:40] you that. It may stabilize, which I'm hoping it does. But there's no indication that it's going

[2:45:47] to come back to what it was in prior years. So, with any questions on any of that.

[2:45:54] Yep, the Q's blowing up here. So, oh, great.

[2:45:59] Survisor Hayes.

[2:46:01] Okay, my first question is on the building of a pod.

[2:46:04] You said on here that an additional 150-bed housing pod is $45 million.

[2:46:11] Right?

[2:46:12] Brown County approved building an additional pod for their jail

[2:46:16] in with their budget at the end of last year and it's $17 million.

[2:46:21] Dane County is putting up a jail, I think they started in the fall of 2024, 865 beds for

[2:46:29] 200 million. There seems to be some big discrepancy here on these numbers.

[2:46:35] Great question. So when I showed you the model in regards to the configuration of the classifications,

[2:46:42] We're talking about not having large dorm spaces.

[2:46:47] I'm going to tell you about the dorm spaces that are very cost-effective to build.

[2:46:52] We're going to build a big box.

[2:46:53] We're going to put some bumps in there, some mattresses, and give them a toilet or two.

[2:46:59] You have to understand that each one of those designs differ in regards to what they do

[2:47:03] with the management of that population.

[2:47:06] Well, we have forecasted right here would be dealing with the classification that's relative

[2:47:13] to those elements that are tied into those pieces.

[2:47:16] The other pieces that are in here is if you break those housing units down, some of those

[2:47:21] infrastructures that are there, they're actually adding on to the spaces that they have and

[2:47:25] we don't know from what those utility components or what those additional areas or spaces

[2:47:30] that they may be reusing are.

[2:47:32] So there's a lot of that that you need to break down into the programming.

[2:47:36] We're using a model right here that would be consistent with what was built in Wood County,

[2:47:39] so that it maximizes your flexibility for classification.

[2:47:47] Does that answer your question?

[2:47:49] Not really, but we can move on.

[2:47:52] Here's the other thing I want to tell you.

[2:47:54] Here's the other thing that I want to tell you, and I'm stressing this to you right now.

[2:47:59] I just shared with you what those budgets are and where they came in.

[2:48:03] and we're giving you a projection of a thousand dollars a square foot.

[2:48:07] Right? So, there's a lot that's in a conceptual budget, right?

[2:48:10] You're dealing with things that have been hard-bid.

[2:48:13] So, there's a lot that goes into that.

[2:48:18] Yes, I am optimistic they will,

[2:48:22] but I can't give you that guarantee today.

[2:48:28] Okay, Supervisor Donberg.

[2:48:30] When you talked about revenue from other areas,

[2:48:35] areas. Was that rate based on what another county would pay us or on what the state was

[2:48:41] sponsored would pay us because I think those rates are different? Yeah, I use 60 bucks because

[2:48:46] it's kind of between what the state would pay and what other counties would pay. Other counties

[2:48:51] I've seen are below 60 and I think the state right now is almost 62 bucks a day. All right with that.

[2:48:56] Yeah, so I use 60 bucks a day. Juveniles all over the map. I've seen some of those that are 500

[2:49:02] bucks a day. I use 250 to be conservative.

[2:49:05] Thank you.

[2:49:07] Thank you.

[2:49:07] So, raise a bro?

[2:49:09] Yeah, just one question.

[2:49:10] With the estimated project costs and the mill rate impacts, does that include the interest

[2:49:14] that we would have to pay on any borrowing that we would do for these projects?

[2:49:17] Or the project?

[2:49:18] That's factored into the mill rate.

[2:49:21] So, you're not going to pay additional taxes on top of that.

[2:49:24] But the borrowing obviously, I don't have that calculation in front of me, but if you borrow

[2:49:28] $100 million, you're going to pay more than $100 million to pay a back.

[2:49:32] But it's already factored into what your mill rate would be so you're not going to see that plus another one

[2:49:37] And it and it's a one-time shot right, so you're going to see that increase

[2:49:40] It's not going to be increasing every year now what happens with these is that you're going to borrow for this project at some point in time

[2:49:50] So what happens when we get close to starting a project will work with your bond council will do a

[2:50:02] And we're going to start in March of 2026.

[2:50:05] They would ask, how much money are we going to spend in 2026?

[2:50:07] Because then they need to decide, are they going to borrow all of that?

[2:50:11] Or how much are they going to borrow in 26, 27, 28?

[2:50:14] Typically, it's two or three year borrowing.

[2:50:17] You got to do with arbitrage, because I've had some counties recently

[2:50:20] that have made good interest gains,

[2:50:22] because they can reinvest the dollars while they borrowed it.

[2:50:25] It's probably more than you want to hear.

[2:50:26] But all of that is factored into getting these numbers tighter.

[2:50:30] Again, these are conceptual numbers, these are kind of, I don't want to say worst case scenario, but they're given you guys some numbers to be realistic with.

[2:50:39] Thank you.

[2:50:40] Supervisor Rickard.

[2:50:43] Yes, if we move everything out by the county garage, including the court system, child support, what are we going to do with a floor and a half of this building standing empty?

[2:50:55] And we as a committee, we didn't have a great answer for that.

[2:51:00] And that was part of that was part of the dialogue is that there's not a great answer for that.

[2:51:08] Okay, Supervisor Dean Will.

[2:51:11] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[2:51:12] Just for the fellow supervisors, when you look at the jail option comparisons,

[2:51:20] I would just have you look at option two, three and four that you have to figure in the expenses

[2:51:28] for the Out of County Juvenile and like the annual transport

[2:51:31] funds. I did it at a 50 year cost and two three and four actually increased

[2:51:44] higher than option five. And option one yes it is considerably lower

[2:51:51] than all of the options but as it is noted that there is no room for

[2:51:56] expansion. So you're basically putting a lipstick on a pig and you're making yourself feel good

[2:52:04] and thinking that we're doing something good. So I just want to have everybody just think about

[2:52:09] what we've done in the past and those mistakes that have been made that we don't do in the future.

[2:52:16] And one other slide that I think should awaken everybody is that slide 61 when it talks about the

[2:52:25] markets that we can debate this over and over for years.

[2:52:30] Years, but it's obviously not going to get any cheaper that that trend from 2009-193-2024-875. When we talked

[2:52:43] about this with the committee, that there's a quite a few of them that said, if there is one slide in your

[2:52:49] whole presentation that really stands out, it would be this slide. Thank you. I appreciate all of your

[2:52:55] work so far. You've been always great as far as answering questions, and I think that they

[2:53:03] had a committee. I'll give them a lot of credit too, because there was a lot of questions,

[2:53:08] there was a lot of, you could see a lot of stress with the membership, and there's obviously

[2:53:14] a lot of work to be done yet. So thank you very much.

[2:53:18] Okay, thank you. Supervisor Darnbroke.

[2:53:20] Yeah, just real quick with Dean mentioned that side, when was the last time we expanded?

[2:53:27] Was that 2011?

[2:53:29] 2006, I believe.

[2:53:32] Well, you go back there and you look, you know, at that time, I think our sheriff wanted to build

[2:53:36] off-site then and his, he was shot down.

[2:53:40] I mean, that would have made a huge difference in tooth, I mean, you're talking 150 square

[2:53:46] feet as far back as you go on this slide. And now we're up to 875. So when we make our

[2:53:51] decision to down the road, we have to think of boards 20 and 30 years from now, because

[2:53:57] that did not happen in that last addition. And now we're here at 875 square feet.

[2:54:05] or square feet. That's my last one. Okay, it's the Q is empty. Are there any other questions for

[2:54:19] gentlemen? I am going to ask, oh I got one more here. Sorry. I thought I was done with that.

[2:54:26] I jumped over this. So this was a question. This was a question that was raised in

[2:54:33] I'm going to walk over here so I guess I can, I get to speak here.

[2:54:37] The question of, the Justice Center cost us $392 million up on the top and the law

[2:54:42] fort, this is all out of the highway shop, right?

[2:54:46] If we just did the law enforcement center, the question was asked, if we delay it, what's

[2:54:52] the impact to that cost?

[2:54:54] So what this chart represents is that the top two lines, the second one is subtracted from

[2:55:00] first one, which gets us to a deferral cost of $107 million at an inflation rate of 6.25.

[2:55:08] So you'll see how that number continues to increase. But on top of that, you have to add the

[2:55:14] transport cost over those two durations. So not only are you waiting to build it and the cost of building

[2:55:21] it is going to go up, but you're paying for transport for 10 and 20 years. So if you look at each

[2:55:27] One of them, your 10 year impact, if you delayed, would be $101 million and your 20 year,

[2:55:37] would be $282 million.

[2:55:40] So just something to think about, in regards to deferral cost and waiting from one option

[2:55:45] to the next.

[2:55:47] All right, can you pull up that website while I hand these out?

[2:56:50] All right, so you heard Steve say that one of the things that the ad hoc committee thought

[2:56:54] would be a good thing, would be a communications plan.

[2:56:58] And what I just handed out to you is a letter

[2:57:01] that we've used with one of our recent counties.

[2:57:03] We've done this multiple times.

[2:57:05] I just gave you one of the latest ones for Rust County.

[2:57:09] So the R word always comes up, referendum.

[2:57:13] When we talk to county boards about these projects

[2:57:15] is we got to take this out to referendum.

[2:57:19] The fact of the matter is, is that there are parameters.

[2:57:22] And I don't know what your top number is yet,

[2:57:24] But if you stay below a certain limit, you guys have been authorized to make these decisions

[2:57:31] without a referendum.

[2:57:33] In the state of Wisconsin, that doesn't happen in every state.

[2:57:36] We work throughout the Midwest and we've gotten certain states where we have to go to

[2:57:39] referendum.

[2:57:41] So all the counties that I've worked with in the state of Wisconsin, and some of them have

[2:57:45] been very large projects, and none of them have went to referendum because here is the item

[2:57:52] that you have to consider, think about all the information that was just dumped on your

[2:57:57] lap tonight and you're asked to go to a poll and vote and say, I want to approve

[2:58:06] abarrowing to build a new jail for $200 million or I don't want to approve it.

[2:58:13] How do you make sure that your taxpayers are informed to be able to accomplish that?

[2:58:18] Because you guys probably got data here today that you didn't have before you got here,

[2:58:22] You're probably going to ask questions, as we continue to work on this multiple times, and you're going to be more informed,

[2:58:31] and the model in which Wisconsin operates their government is that you guys have been elected to make difficult decisions, including spending money.

[2:58:40] And the intent is that we engage interaction between you and your constituents of your district to be able to come back and represent that district for what they feel is in the best interest of the county.

[2:58:50] not your own personal opinion.

[2:58:54] It is the opinion of your constituents, okay?

[2:58:58] So with that said, we have created this approach

[2:59:02] to a communications plan.

[2:59:04] And what it boils down to is,

[2:59:06] we are going to inform the community

[2:59:08] about what you're dealing with.

[2:59:10] A letter that I just handed to you,

[2:59:12] you can read it later on.

[2:59:14] It essentially says this.

[2:59:17] Finalize County Residence, we want your input.

[2:59:19] We are dealing with this decision that lays before us.

[2:59:23] We are going to spend millions of your dollars.

[2:59:26] We would like to get you all the information that we have at your fingertips.

[2:59:31] And we would like to invite you to a few town hall meetings so that you can have your voices heard.

[2:59:36] And by the way, we've created a website for you so that you can view it at any time you want.

[2:59:43] That communication plan is essentially a way for you to get that connection between you and your constituents,

[2:59:49] So that you can then make an informed decision based on what your district wants you to vote for.

[2:59:58] So this letter, picture that it is.

[3:00:00] It's got your county's name on it. We would put information in there specific to your county about population, about classifications, age of the building, existing conditions, all of these elements would be in here.

[3:00:12] This letter essentially drives them to a website that's going to have a lot more data.

[3:00:17] And then we're going to have town hall meetings with them so that we can answer their questions.

[3:00:21] So, this website that we create, we would create one for you, it shows the home page, initially

[3:00:30] if you start there at least, so the home page is just a summary, but it would be obviously

[3:00:35] your information with a description about what the home, what the page is about, where

[3:00:40] the next tab is the need, and this is where a lot of the traffic goes.

[3:00:45] You'll see that there's tabs in here where you can click on existing conditions, and it

[3:00:49] you can take into these photos, these photos come up and as you click to the right on that tab,

[3:00:55] it would have a photo and an issue that's dealing with each one of those situations, similar

[3:01:01] to what we did here. And we would dump all the photos that would be in there so that they

[3:01:05] understand the situations that's going on. We would then show the risk and the safety that's

[3:01:11] tied to that, that the county liability. I mean, there's multiple data that's plugged in there.

[3:01:17] Okay, and then the solution component is where we put in a video.

[3:01:24] And this video essentially takes your campus.

[3:01:27] If you decided to do something down here, it would be a video that would show what the structure would look like

[3:01:33] if you decided to build it down here.

[3:01:35] If you're going to decide to do it out the highway shop, it would show you what that would look like.

[3:01:39] And it is conceptual in nature.

[3:01:41] It's going to show you the existing building and it's going to show the addition.

[3:01:44] They're going to be able to then register with them.

[3:01:47] What are we talking about?

[3:01:48] That's going to cost us millions of dollars.

[3:01:52] This video, along with the need tab, are the ones that get the most traffic.

[3:01:57] We track the analytics of these websites.

[3:02:00] These ones get the most traffic behind tax impact.

[3:02:05] The next tab is tax impact.

[3:02:07] This tax impact is essentially what I just showed you.

[3:02:11] It's going to show you in a breakdown of if my home is assessed for $100,200,000,000,

[3:02:18] you're going to show them what that tax impact would be.

[3:02:21] It's out there for them to see.

[3:02:23] The informational meeting tab that gives them the date and the location as to where your

[3:02:28] community town hall meetings would be.

[3:02:31] The way we handle those community town hall meetings, we would give a presentation much similar

[3:02:35] to this.

[3:02:36] We probably condensed some of these areas, but we would do something very similar to this

[3:02:40] with existing conditions and the options that we're considered and then we would open it up.

[3:02:46] I try to have that presentation 45 minutes to an hour and then we let them fire away questions at us.

[3:02:52] And we take whatever questions and we catalog all them and we put those questions on the website.

[3:02:58] So those frequently asked questions that are there.

[3:03:00] You'll see a frequently asked question.

[3:03:02] People can then go in there and say, hey, I have this question of somebody else has already asked it.

[3:03:06] There's an answer that's already tied into that.

[3:03:09] Testimonials. This is where we would have the sheriff. I have had sometimes county board representatives say hey I'm putting my stamp of approval on this. We need to build a jail. Here's why that's where the testimonials would be there.

[3:03:22] And then the contact page is an option for people to reach out and ask a question if they don't have the courage to ask it in a public meeting. They can type in this website and say hey I have this question.

[3:03:34] That is managed by my staff, those questions all come through me.

[3:03:39] I will distribute them to either to the design team or to the county board and county administration.

[3:03:46] If there's questions relative to the county board or to the county administration, and we get them out to the people.

[3:03:53] We do our best to get back to them within one business day.

[3:03:56] If there's multiple people that have to respond, we'll know, hey, we're working on the responses.

[3:04:00] But we like to be prompt with it, so people don't feel as though their question just went into an abyss.

[3:04:04] and it didn't get an answer.

[3:04:06] So, that is the communication plan that we typically see.

[3:04:11] In order to get to that point, there is a next level of design,

[3:04:16] and that's why when we talked about this going to one of your standing committees,

[3:04:20] you would then take this project and say, hey, we understand,

[3:04:23] we've got to do something with the jail, we want the standing committee to figure out

[3:04:27] some of those finer details about, is there another renovation option?

[3:04:31] is there another solution in regards to the revenue side and package that in a little tighter bundle,

[3:04:39] do the next level of design where you take the floor plans of that option and you take that

[3:04:45] option and you put some floor plans to it so that we can start to hone in on some tighter numbers

[3:04:50] because now we're dealing with massing, we're dealing with some tighter numbers,

[3:04:55] and that would be the next phase to be able to get this thing out to your community.

[3:04:59] So, with that said, I'll open it up for questions and answers.

[3:05:04] Supervisor Gary Will.

[3:05:06] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[3:05:08] I am the Chair of the Public Safety Committee, which looks like it'll be coming.

[3:05:12] It's may come to you last then.

[3:05:14] So, before we leave this evening,

[3:05:16] and so all my partners on the County Board,

[3:05:19] I need to be a public here.

[3:05:20] You had mentioned one word tonight in your whole presentation about grandfather.

[3:05:25] And so everybody needs to understand, I don't know who ever wants to answer this, if the

[3:05:29] Sheriff wants to answer it.

[3:05:30] If you guys want to answer it, the state inspects our jail annually and they've been

[3:05:35] very gracious, is a good word to put with us.

[3:05:40] As long as we are doing something, showing some movement, they've been very lenient with us

[3:05:46] and not putting their thumb down on us, I guess, if you will.

[3:05:50] So, I don't know if there's anybody in this room tonight that can maybe answer that, or not.

[3:05:57] Of what if we don't do anything, what happens to our jail and our operation and how many people we have,

[3:06:03] and what we can't do, because I know a lot of that stuff in that building is not to go and not adequate.

[3:06:09] I mean, we may have 305 in there now, but will we only have 20 in there?

[3:06:14] So, whether ramifications, if we do nothing.

[3:06:17] But I don't want to put words in Nancy's mouth, but I can tell you what's happened to other counties.

[3:06:23] Is that if you guys just said, hey, we're not going to do anything.

[3:06:26] The first thing that they're going to come in is start to shut down your double bunking.

[3:06:30] Because misclassification is a huge piece.

[3:06:32] So wherever you have a double bunk, they're going to say you can no longer double bunk.

[3:06:36] And then there may actually be some cell box where they will remove the number of beds,

[3:06:40] so that you are no longer mixing those classifications and what that's going to do is it's going to drive you

[3:06:45] more out of county expenses, right? If there are some of these elements that start to become

[3:06:51] a health risk, I mean if you continue to have sewage water getting into habitable spaces,

[3:06:57] there's going to be other areas where that block just may be shut down because it hasn't been

[3:07:02] repaired. So those are the sorts of things that I've seen. I can tell you that the DOC has been

[3:07:07] working with counties as long as you're moving it along. They understand these are difficult

[3:07:12] the citizens to make and they don't happen overnight, but you can't sit on it for years and years

[3:07:16] and years as a delay tactic and I think there becomes a point in a time where they say enough

[3:07:21] enough. So I don't want to put words in there, I'm not that's what I've seen happen.

[3:07:25] So no, and I appreciate it. I get it and I understand it. My committee understands that. I just want

[3:07:29] everybody else

[3:07:32] It's not a need or a want. It's something that we're obligated to buy the state and we have to work with the state and they're working with us.

[3:07:44] We have to make decisions and we're going to be tough decisions, but we have to do something.

[3:07:49] Doing nothing will just be detrimental to the public safety of our county. Thank you.

[3:07:54] Okay, supervisor Dean, well, thank you, Mr. Chair, could you just talk about, I know you brought

[3:08:02] up that there's portions of it's sinking and stuff like that, but can you just talk a little

[3:08:10] bit about, because that pertains mostly to the O4 edition that's basically sinking on

[3:08:18] those.

[3:08:18] Yeah, so we've got parts of the structure that are our sinking obviously, we talked about the

[3:08:23] and those elements that we're in there.

[3:08:26] It's one of those things that if there is the interest

[3:08:31] to renovate down here, the next step would be in that design phase.

[3:08:35] You're actually going to have to go in and explore what is a substrate look like.

[3:08:39] And here's what that looks like.

[3:08:39] We're going to have to open that up and get down there

[3:08:42] and see what we're dealing with our soils with a boring.

[3:08:44] That means we're going to have to open up some concrete floors.

[3:08:46] We're going to have to do some soil evaluation.

[3:08:50] And then come back with a solution of what that means to stabilize

[3:08:53] structure. That can be very cost prohibitive to be able to do so. And there's multiple ways

[3:09:00] that can be done. Healical peers, push peers, we've done it in certain facets, and it's

[3:09:05] to what level does that run into. Here's the challenge that you have, is that it's already settling

[3:09:11] with the structure that's in there. If we decided that we wanted to come back in and reuse it as

[3:09:16] jail, we're going to put added weight on something that isn't able to support what that calculated

[3:09:21] loaded load is there. So as I've talked to you before, if that's the direction that you want

[3:09:26] ahead, my recommendation would be, is that space isn't going to be jail space? It would have to

[3:09:30] be something of office space. So you can start to revisit that, but it can be something that's

[3:09:35] explored. I just want to add to that I believe the ad hoc that we had brought up that if we do

[3:09:41] try to stay downtown, that to the south, like where the parking light is now, that obviously

[3:09:46] would contain the same soil substance. So there's obviously a concern there that

[3:09:52] there could be an added cost as far as trying to make that suitable for

[3:09:58] whatever type of build. And that's actually a part of the next phase of

[3:10:02] design, right? So we would order soil samples. We would determine what is that

[3:10:07] soil look like. All of that would be vetted in regards to what those options look

[3:10:11] at because we're not right now we're talking conceptual. It's really into that

[3:10:15] level of design to be able to deal with those issues. There are ways to

[3:10:19] remediate that. I've got campuses where we've used a reused ram digger

[3:10:22] get peers and been able to stabilize them, but there is a cost associated with

[3:10:26] that, right? So that's where you have to evaluate, is it worth doing it? When you

[3:10:31] brought up the parking lot, I didn't even talk about it, but when we build

[3:10:36] over there, we do have to come up with a solution for parking, because I believe

[3:10:40] that parking lot is around 180 to 200 stalls.

[3:10:45] So the discussion of adding a parking ramp was considered, right?

[3:10:50] Parking ramps are expensive, parking ramps are maintenance

[3:10:53] nightmare.

[3:10:53] So you have to understand if we're going to displace that parking,

[3:10:57] are we going to build a parking ramp?

[3:10:58] Or are we going to take space or real estate somewhere

[3:11:01] to be able to put the parking there?

[3:11:04] So thank you, Kurt.

[3:11:06] OK, thank you, supervisor Hayes.

[3:11:09] I want to share some information with my fellow county supervisors because for me the most daunting thing of this project has been the cost.

[3:11:17] And I think we have to answer the question what can we afford.

[3:11:21] If I'm like county right now, we're in 13th in the state for our total debt.

[3:11:26] We ranked 28th for our per capita debt and that is how much we owe for each citizen in our county.

[3:11:31] It's about $600.

[3:11:33] If we choose to do this project at 300 million, we're going to move to number three in the state for the amount of total debt we have.

[3:11:43] And we're going to move to number one for the per capita debt and that'll be $3,479.

[3:11:48] And that's a hundred thousand dollars more than any other county in the state.

[3:11:55] If we choose to do the larger project, we're going to move to number two in the state for the total amount of debt.

[3:12:05] And we will move to $4,633 per capita.

[3:12:10] I cannot imagine that we can afford this.

[3:12:15] Also, if we go to the $400,000, we're at 85% of our borrowing capacity.

[3:12:21] that's 40 percentage points higher than anybody else in the state. Now if you look at

[3:12:29] these numbers and I'll have Lisa send them out to all the county supervisors, there are

[3:12:35] other counties that have been caught in this rising cost would county you mentioned and so

[3:12:41] they've moved up way high in that per capita figure and I you know we're caught in a really

[3:12:49] really bad place, but we have to have a serious discussion about what we can afford.

[3:12:56] I think, and I think you're spot on the counties that we're dealing with, and it's not just the projects here, right?

[3:13:04] It's the cost of living, right?

[3:13:05] So let's talk about what we're dealing with in society.

[3:13:08] Everybody is getting hammered with the cost of living, but this problem isn't going away.

[3:13:13] And I think as we dive into that next level of detail and design, you can't overlook the operating cost that's going

[3:13:20] to be in one of these options because that never goes away. When you talk about your ranking,

[3:13:27] your ranking after 20 years changes when you pay it off, when you do your operating component,

[3:13:32] or ranking doesn't go away, it'll actually increase. So I appreciate the data that you

[3:13:37] brought and I think we have to deal with the operating piece as well. Like we talked. We show the numbers,

[3:13:44] we just need to be able to compare them so we can see what they look like. I understand, but I just

[3:13:49] to point out and I don't know how this gets done, but I think we need to have somebody, I hope

[3:13:55] this would be the finance committee, determine what it is we can afford to do. Because I think,

[3:14:02] you know, my personal opinion, 400 million is not affordable. Yeah, I think you're echoing exactly

[3:14:10] the response that we got from the ad hoc committee. I mean, we would be kidding ourselves with

[3:14:16] number doesn't shock everybody, right? And it's obviously not a number of anybody wants to

[3:14:23] be able to deal with. So you have to find a way to step into it, but I would encourage us to

[3:14:28] look at ways to step into it so that we're not making the wrong decision that's a long-term

[3:14:33] impact. That's what I will stress from a master planning perspective because I've been down that

[3:14:38] road before as if we make a short-dated site a decision of where it's at, then the next generation

[3:14:43] we'll pay for it. Just a caution that we do that.

[3:14:47] Thank you, Supervisor Ryan.

[3:14:50] I just procedurally had a question. I just want to thank these guys for a nice presentation and the committee for a lot of time.

[3:14:58] Yeah, it's a big sticker shot.

[3:15:00] And I guess, a procedureally is it going to go to public safety? How long do you expect it to be a public safety?

[3:15:09] How long does it come back to County Board? How procedurally will that last? And then my other question is, do we, is this the only architectural firm that will look at this equation?

[3:15:22] are we locked into their plan, not that I want to start over again but obviously you guys

[3:15:28] have been paid for your time and energy?

[3:15:33] Or is this it? Is this the only options we have

[3:15:35] in front of us? Is that something public safety has to pick up? Or what is that all go?

[3:15:41] Let's answer a couple of them. You are not locked in with us beyond this point at any way at all.

[3:15:48] I would hope that our efforts would have enough confidence in us to move forward, but contractually

[3:15:54] you're not bound to us beyond this point at all.

[3:15:57] Secondly, the timing that is wrapped up in this is that this communication plan I've typically

[3:16:03] seen this take about three to four months to get done.

[3:16:07] And what that would mean is you would take it to your standing committee.

[3:16:10] They're going to take your recommendation, and then they're going to start to ask these

[3:16:13] questions.

[3:16:14] Hey, supervisor Hayes said this, can we evaluate that?

[3:16:17] Supervisor Will said this, can we evaluate that?

[3:16:20] And then it's a brainstorming session based on all of what we've heard so far.

[3:16:26] And then you start to vet all of those components.

[3:16:30] And then you come to a floor plan that comes back to the board.

[3:16:34] Before you overtake it out to the public, you take this communication plan.

[3:16:37] We say, here's the letter that you're going to send.

[3:16:39] Here's the website, here's the cost, here's the impact,

[3:16:42] and then you take it to the community.

[3:16:44] That's going to take about three to four months to get that done.

[3:16:46] And in order to get the communication plan done,

[3:16:49] we do that in about six to eight weeks.

[3:16:56] Sometime in the fall, you're probably thinking this will be coming back.

[3:17:01] So you had asked the question about committee.

[3:17:03] And we've had several discussions about this.

[3:17:06] Me and Connie Executive.

[3:17:08] We talked to Megan about it.

[3:17:10] talk to a supervisor Gary Will about it, chair of the public safety.

[3:17:16] Public safety now is kind of, they oversee the jail, right?

[3:17:22] A building project could very well go to highway and facilities, right?

[3:17:30] But we need to get it in front of a committee, a standing committee, to get things started.

[3:17:36] start the conversation so we can, you know, we can debate this.

[3:17:41] Public safety may take a look at it and they may ask facilities to come in as a joint committee

[3:17:49] and work on it with them.

[3:17:52] That's as an option.

[3:17:53] I'm not saying that's what we should do.

[3:17:55] But expecting one committee to have all the expertise, you know, finance will have to get involved

[3:18:00] to answer supervisor Hayes's question about what can we afford.

[3:18:03] You know, there's a lot of parts to this, so, but we just felt it was best to start with public safety.

[3:18:11] And then, as we start to pull this together over the next couple months, then we can potentially change the committee at sitting in front of.

[3:18:20] If you've seen things happen, similar skirt or, okay,

[3:18:26] okay.

[3:18:27] Draw how it's going to start making entrances at first for all of us, so we're going to work our way through it.

[3:18:32] but

[3:18:34] supervisor Yankee.

[3:18:38] I think part of the problem is that our taxes

[3:18:41] and found the lake are already high.

[3:18:44] So when we look at projects like this,

[3:18:46] you know, it looks really expensive.

[3:18:48] And also, you know, we're gonna have a referendum

[3:18:51] coming up for the school district

[3:18:52] for those of us that live in the city

[3:18:54] and they're asking for $10 million a year for the next,

[3:18:58] you know, four years, you know,

[3:19:00] because they couldn't do their budget properly or whatever.

[3:19:02] So I mean we have that and I mean we would have this and you know when you look at the surrounding areas our taxes are going to be pretty high

[3:19:10] But anyway, oh, I have a question to you like is there

[3:19:15] No, ever grant for anything like this. Nope. I wish I had a butter answer because that always comes up with the answers. No

[3:19:24] So where is your Griffith?

[3:19:26] Yeah, thank you. I'm glad to hear chair able that you see other committees potentially being involved in this

[3:19:32] My question is I think there probably are really several committees of jurisdiction and what I want to know is what would be the procedure for somebody who is perhaps not on those committees to have input.

[3:19:45] The idea that you can go to a committee meeting and speak at the beginning for three minutes but the committee is not allowed to respond to what you say.

[3:19:52] It's not very satisfying. I don't think it's the best way to get the best work out of our board.

[3:19:56] So I would like to know if there's a way that any of us who have interest or an idea can weigh in appropriately and be welcomed to do that so that it's we can get as many good minds on this as possible.

[3:20:12] I really appreciate it a lot of the things that other people have brought up.

[3:20:16] Megan, would you care to weigh in on the proper way to handle this?

[3:20:21] So arguably, there are two committees in my minds that have cleared jurisdiction over different parts.

[3:20:28] One is public safety, just simply because they're the jurisdictional committee for the Sheriff's Department in terms of the jail.

[3:20:38] But the other is highway, and highway has the jurisdiction over all new buildings, construction, and is required under the board rules to be consulted.

[3:20:48] So, we have a board rule that says, have referred to it all matters related to maintenance and construction of all county buildings and be consulted by all departments and committees in planning for new buildings or for proposed structural changes in existing buildings owned or occupied by the county.

[3:21:11] So, when you have a board rule like that, to me, it sounds like at some point highways is going to be more involved than public safety.

[3:21:22] Or they're going to potentially meet jointly.

[3:21:27] In terms of, I guess, contributions by other supervisors that do not sit on either one of those committees.

[3:21:37] Are you believe that will be up to the chairs of those committees as to whether they'll give latitude on time for public input or supervisor input?

[3:21:47] I think every committee I've been to has usually given supervisors a little bit more latitude when they are present at committee meetings even if it's not when they sit on.

[3:21:59] You can always forward your comments as well to the chairs of the committees or to the clerk to share.

[3:22:05] out, but I guess, you know, I can't necessarily give you a black and white rule of thumb

[3:22:10] because we also entrust our committees to do the work, but they also take your input.

[3:22:17] So, however you feel that that's appropriate, ultimately that'll be also up to the chairs

[3:22:23] to run those meetings.

[3:22:25] So that answer your question, excuse me, does that answer your question?

[3:22:30] Okay, thank you. Do you guys are learning?

[3:22:34] I have a question from Ms. McNamara and then for you. First of all, for the consultants, can we, what do you mean by, we're going to go to the community, and we're going to talk about our recommendation, so that would be that.

[3:22:52] I mean, we don't, we don't really have a recommendation other than the ad hoc committees recommendation on certain options.

[3:23:01] Yeah, so I've done it a couple of ways.

[3:23:06] You have the standing committee work to a final floor plan of what you're going.

[3:23:13] You all have an agreement that this is within the realm of what we would approve,

[3:23:18] But you're not confident in making that decision until you take it out to the community.

[3:23:23] I've also had counties where we have given them two options to evaluate, right?

[3:23:29] And one was actually three, meaning we're going to do a jail.

[3:23:32] We're going to do a law enforcement center.

[3:23:34] We're going to do a justice center.

[3:23:35] So, everybody agreed on the master plan.

[3:23:37] They just need to do a degree on, are we going to do step one, step two, or step three?

[3:23:42] And they got the feedback from their constituents and regards to where to go with that.

[3:23:47] This next phase of design is going to be key in regards to you being able to vet some

[3:23:52] of those operational components.

[3:23:56] So that's how I've seen that rolled out in the communications plan, is that you want that

[3:24:00] dialogue from them, but you gotta give them something more concrete than what you have here

[3:24:04] today.

[3:24:06] And just because I would think it would be up to our highway department to decide what

[3:24:11] option they would recommend to the county board.

[3:24:14] And I think you've already talked about that, is that whether highway is joint with public

[3:24:19] safety and I've seen that happen, that may be where it ends up to be able to get to

[3:24:24] that point.

[3:24:25] And then the other question is just that if it doesn't, so if we don't like what happens

[3:24:31] in committee because maybe some other people want what Ms. Griffith said about what do we do

[3:24:39] know as far as participating, is it possible to go to a committee as a whole if

[3:24:48] that would

[3:24:49] be.

[3:24:50] Corporation Council and I briefly talked about this.

[3:24:53] So if we went to the whole county board as a committee, we would start to have quorum issues

[3:24:58] and there's several other things that would probably pop up in that that we don't think

[3:25:03] it's practical to do that.

[3:25:05] Obviously, you could, but trying to get something accomplished would be extremely difficult.

[3:25:13] Because I know that other boards go to committee as a whole.

[3:25:18] I mean even council.

[3:25:20] So I'm just asking if that's a possibility.

[3:25:26] I think the challenging part is councils are smaller and number and you're dealing with a 25 person board.

[3:25:31] So the core of issue is a real issue, especially if you wish to move forward, we would generally need a

[3:25:40] a core of this body to make it affectual.

[3:25:43] That is why my recommendation of this board is to send it to a standing committee first.

[3:25:49] There is definitely information that needs to get rooted out,

[3:25:54] on discussed and evaluated whether we need more information, further digestion of some of the

[3:26:02] options. That's the work of the committees to kind of delve into that now that it's been presented

[3:26:09] and whether the chairs which have a joint meeting between Highway and Public Safety or individually

[3:26:16] look at certain aspects, that will be up to how the sport wishes to refer it out of this meeting

[3:26:24] tonight.

[3:26:26] Does that answer your question?

[3:26:28] Yes, thank you.

[3:26:29] Thank you.

[3:26:30] Mr. Deenwell.

[3:26:31] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[3:26:33] The question was brought up.

[3:26:35] I believe about the consultant as far as if we should look elsewhere.

[3:26:42] The ad hoc committee, obviously we too are green-like.

[3:26:47] You were involved with that project.

[3:26:52] The Sheriff spoke very highly of the consultants and I don't believe that was because you were there.

[3:27:03] I don't know about anything with that.

[3:27:05] I had spoken to Kelly McConey.

[3:27:07] You were involved with Kelly McConey.

[3:27:09] I spoke personally with the Sheriff Kelly McConey.

[3:27:13] Very happy with the results.

[3:27:16] You've been involved with occontal, triple, triple, triple low, and what Sheriff County is

[3:27:23] accurate.

[3:27:24] Like any other counties that you would want to bring up, and I just want to point out that

[3:27:29] when we did the Green Lake tour, the first thing that came out of the Sheriff's Month,

[3:27:35] I didn't know the Sheriff at all, I never met him, I never really had a conversation, obviously,

[3:27:41] with them. But he said that the county broker that the ad hoc plus the county board need to trust

[3:27:48] your sheriff. That's one of the key factors in this whole thing. If you're going to go down

[3:27:54] this road and not trust or always have second thoughts or thinking well we should do this we should

[3:27:59] do that. Then we're going to stumble and we're going to make mistakes like previous county boards

[3:28:07] So I just wanted to talk a little bit about your history maybe.

[3:28:11] Yeah, I don't like to talk about our resume.

[3:28:14] And I won't.

[3:28:15] You guys can order a little bit, please.

[3:28:17] Yeah, you guys can check our references.

[3:28:18] But the question that was asked always comes up and we get to the end of this.

[3:28:23] Because we deliver a message that you don't want to hear.

[3:28:26] And you want to get a second opinion. It always happens, right?

[3:28:29] And you'll go through that discussion about who are you going to bring on.

[3:28:32] I guess what I want to emphasize to you is that we would be hired

[3:28:35] as a professional service.

[3:28:37] As a construction manager, there are two different ways

[3:28:39] to deliver a project.

[3:28:41] One is, we come in as an advisor,

[3:28:43] and we walk you through this entire project

[3:28:46] from the beginning, until the end,

[3:28:48] and I still follow up with facilities people.

[3:28:51] Years after, we've been gone to make sure things are run and fine.

[3:28:54] And that is our business model

[3:28:57] is based on a reputation, check our references.

[3:29:00] Ventures element, and the reason that I brought Venture in,

[3:29:03] If you guys look at the world of what's happened with corrections in the state of Wisconsin,

[3:29:07] there are only a couple firms that have a long history of correctional experience,

[3:29:13] and one of them do not do them anymore.

[3:29:16] Venture has the longest resume.

[3:29:18] I've worked with them.

[3:29:19] I've been very impressed with their professionalism and how they look out for the counties.

[3:29:24] What I do want to stress with you is, because you don't like what we're recommending to you,

[3:29:28] doesn't mean that that's where we're going to end up our responsibility as your professionals

[3:29:34] is to listen to you and guide you.

[3:29:37] We may tell you, that's a dumb idea.

[3:29:39] Understand that it's not coming from the wrong location, it's this county did it and it didn't

[3:29:44] work.

[3:29:45] And understand that we're not doing it to try to force an agenda.

[3:29:48] We're trying to give you the direction to be able to get there.

[3:29:51] So ideas that have been brought out here tonight definitely need to be incorporated in the next

[3:29:56] of design. We've done it multiple times.

[3:29:58] Dean, I appreciate the...

[3:30:00] Kind words, but this always comes up. We need to get a second opinion. The reality is we have the opinions here of what you feel your counting needs to do. You've got a vast amount of experience here that can tell you about why we should or shouldn't do certain things.

[3:30:17] So, thank you.

[3:30:20] Supervisor Ryan.

[3:30:21] Yeah, I mean, contractually, my question was more geared towards contractually.

[3:30:25] What are we obligated to now?

[3:30:28] Is your presentation here completion of the contractual obligations that we have with you?

[3:30:34] That's all.

[3:30:34] It is, but like I told you, if you have questions, I don't want to leave you guys without

[3:30:40] the information.

[3:30:41] I would be willing to meet with you one-on-one to be able to answer any questions here,

[3:30:45] you know, and you get to the committee, if you want some direction on what's worked

[3:30:48] for me as you move forward.

[3:30:49] I'm not, it's not tail late tonight, you know?

[3:30:52] Because the issues cost, the issue is prices,

[3:30:56] no matter who you go with, those aren't gonna change.

[3:31:00] Steve, could you tell me if this is gonna,

[3:31:02] when it comes down to the vote at the county board,

[3:31:05] is it gonna be a two thirds,

[3:31:07] or is it gonna be a simple majority?

[3:31:08] It would be a three quarter,

[3:31:09] because we'd be bonding, it would be a three quarter.

[3:31:12] Majority, I don't know if corporation counsel agrees or not,

[3:31:15] But if we decided to do this, Meghan, it would be three quarters majority, right?

[3:31:22] If we decided to go ahead with this.

[3:31:23] I missed what you were saying, sorry, because I was asking Erin a question about the contract.

[3:31:28] So, what was your question?

[3:31:30] I'll go ahead and ask it again, right, Meghan?

[3:31:32] Yeah, it's right.

[3:31:32] So, when it comes to County Board, is it going to be a simple majority?

[3:31:36] What is the, what's going to be the...

[3:31:39] For this to committee?

[3:31:40] No, when it finally comes back as a recommendation, what will the

[3:31:45] need to be. The resolution to build.

[3:31:51] Yeah. Well, if you want to be heard on that, I think it

[3:31:54] just... So here's what has happened. The good bad and ugly, we're going to expose it here.

[3:31:58] You're going to see a couple resolutions coming before the board. There's a resolution,

[3:32:02] could it come before the board that you approve a project, a description of the project, right?

[3:32:06] That's going to need a simple majority. And now you're going to need a borrowing authorization that's

[3:32:10] going to come behind that that says, we need to fund what we just approved as a resolution.

[3:32:15] I've had the resolution for the project pass and this one fails because this one will need three quarters of the county board

[3:32:22] This one needs a simple majority and I've had that happen multiple times

[3:32:29] Okay, Tammy

[3:32:32] we'll get you here. We go if it comes forward as a project

[3:32:35] There will be a budget adjustment if it wasn't in there and that's a two-thirds

[3:32:39] Yeah, not a majority

[3:32:41] Yeah, and then the bonding would be three quarters

[3:32:43] for three minutes.

[3:32:49] So, okay.

[3:32:50] The Q is empty again.

[3:32:52] Now, we are still debating.

[3:32:54] Not debating.

[3:32:55] We're still asking questions about the presentation.

[3:32:58] We haven't moved on to the final item yet.

[3:33:01] Any questions about the presentation for Kurt?

[3:33:05] Okay, Kurt.

[3:33:07] Thanks for your time.

[3:33:08] I'd like to thank you on behalf of the County Board

[3:33:11] and the public for all the legwork to this point,

[3:33:13] so we do appreciate it.

[3:33:15] Thank you.

[3:33:24] So, we need to introduce them to you.

[3:33:28] So with that, we're going to move on to the final item on the agenda, which is to refer the

[3:33:34] jail study to the public safety committee.

[3:33:38] I think we've talked about this enough, it's a simple vote, but we can debate it to start.

[3:33:45] I would need a motion, motion by supervisor Ryan, second by supervisor Meyer Chuck,

[3:33:53] okay.

[3:33:53] now we can debate sending it to public safety.

[3:33:57] Surveys are broad.

[3:34:00] But a question, based on some of the comments

[3:34:02] from other supervisors,

[3:34:04] if there was specific aspects of this

[3:34:08] that we want discussed in committee,

[3:34:11] could we as members who are not on the public safety committee,

[3:34:15] bring a resolution to county board and say,

[3:34:17] we would like to see ex-considered by that committee,

[3:34:21] just as like a procedural way to...

[3:34:24] I'll let Megan chime in, but I think it needs to go through the chair of that committee first.

[3:34:30] I mean, you can bring any resolution you want to the county board, but it's kind of up to the committee chair and how they build their agenda.

[3:34:39] I would prefer that you would work with the committees, and I would prefer that you mentioned it to the chair.

[3:34:44] If there's an agenda item that you want to be fully discussed that is

[3:34:49] pertinent and relevant to their jurisdiction associated with this project.

[3:34:55] To just bring it through with three supervisor sponsoring a resolution, side stepping the committee.

[3:35:01] I personally just don't feel as in line with the board rules and the jurisdiction on the committees.

[3:35:07] So I was something of this magnitude.

[3:35:10] I really really just asked that you honor that process because that's what they're tasked with doing.

[3:35:16] both public safety and highway. I'd also like to add as you bring those forward to the

[3:35:25] committee just be careful that you don't break any quorum issues or open meeting

[3:35:30] discussions that you've specifically talked to the chair and if they don't if you

[3:35:36] don't like their response don't go to another member and another member because now

[3:35:41] we're going to have some issues, so just keep in mind you can go to the committee meetings as

[3:35:47] well and if there's an agenda item that requests future agenda items, you know, that's

[3:35:52] where sometimes those issues get raised and can be addressed as well.

[3:35:58] Okay, all right, so please raise your hands.

[3:36:02] First, I have a question about that.

[3:36:04] So we would go to the chair of the committee to ask for the item to be put on the agenda of

[3:36:10] committee? Well, the chairs are supposed to be arguably setting their

[3:36:14] agendas. So that's how we would do it. Go to them and ask them to put it on their agenda.

[3:36:19] I mean, that's how it's born with other people.

[3:36:21] Or at the end of a meeting when they set the agenda or they ask for agenda items for the next meeting,

[3:36:25] ask that it be put on the next the next meeting. Okay. Then the second thing, I, I talked with

[3:36:31] your able this afternoon about all this. You can obviously tell I'm pretty stressed by this amount of money.

[3:36:40] And he told me that County Executive Coffman would be coming in at this point, so I'm just curious what he could help with or because, you know, the financial aspect, Tammy has to weigh in on this, there's so much knowledge in our employees and in the executive branch and I'm just curious how they can come in now and start answering some of these questions because I don't want us to be going

[3:37:10] off in all these directions where we're wasting our time, that's my feeling.

[3:37:15] If we can't afford $400 million, we need to figure out what we can afford.

[3:37:20] And I don't know that any of us as committees are equipped to decide that.

[3:37:27] So that's my next, my other question.

[3:37:30] Mr. Coffman. So, the County Board tasked itself with creating the

[3:37:35] out of our committee to study the issue. From the County Executive's office, we have taken

[3:37:40] some of a back seat in the idea that this is a County Board matter. We are monitoring the

[3:37:45] matter. I've attended the out of our committees when I've been available to see what

[3:37:50] it was going to be, but my understanding has always been, the out of our committee was

[3:37:53] never going to be the final say. At some point you are going to have to go to a committee

[3:37:57] to get it to more detail.

[3:38:00] For me to throw out numbers, I think creates a little confusion to the public.

[3:38:04] That's why I've hesitated to talk about what numbers they would be.

[3:38:08] I don't know at this point, what is even we built?

[3:38:11] I have no idea what the county board's going to decide on.

[3:38:14] I don't know where it's going to be located.

[3:38:16] I know the cost is going to be at that point.

[3:38:19] But when I do know, I get a better idea of what is being planned and we have a more solid

[3:38:24] numbers to what it's going to take the bill, then absolutely.

[3:38:28] That I believe that kind of exec is really to step it at that point and say, if this is

[3:38:32] what you're building, and this isn't worth just being the cost, this isn't worth just

[3:38:36] paid in the, the rate is going to be to pay for this under a bond, then I'm going to have

[3:38:42] to come in at that point and then say, this is the impact with regard to taxpayers, but not

[3:38:48] to taxpayers, but with regard to our businesses, because we have obviously our businesses

[3:38:52] that are in the county, businesses that we're trying to attract.

[3:38:56] You don't have an impact with the guard of them also.

[3:38:58] So those are concerns I am going to have financially.

[3:39:01] I think Mary, you hit it right in the head too with the guard of

[3:39:03] violent capacity, that is going to give that something I have to give

[3:39:08] consideration to, into whether or not it would even

[3:39:11] veto a resolution depending on what it comes in at.

[3:39:14] Because if we go through and start getting to a point in a

[3:39:18] capacity that is so high now you're going to effect overall rating up on rating and that is a

[3:39:26] concern to not only this year or next year for the kind of executive of the county but for budget's

[3:39:31] going on I can tell you this point that I've been a very clear to board leadership I've mentioned

[3:39:36] that I can be before that this is something the county in itself using the distance sales tax and

[3:39:42] cannot pay for. This is going to have to pay for by some form of a special

[3:39:48] lot of attacks on taxpayers to pay for it. We do not have the capacity or

[3:39:53] funds available without basically stripping our existing budgets to pay for

[3:39:58] such an item like this, and that's not even possible. So I can tell you

[3:40:01] right now from the kind of exec is position, that's off the table. I will not

[3:40:06] go through and use our existing finances or our sales tax as we struggle

[3:40:11] or ready to meet our needs to now try and figure out

[3:40:15] how do we pay for this?

[3:40:17] That's not going to happen.

[3:40:18] So the company board, as they give consideration,

[3:40:20] this is going to have to consider the dollar amount

[3:40:23] that what impact it's going to be on taxpayers,

[3:40:25] because that's what the fund is going to have to come from,

[3:40:28] is to have some poor special tax levity

[3:40:30] in order to go ahead and do that.

[3:40:32] So I hope that answer your question,

[3:40:34] but in this point of being premature for me to tell you

[3:40:36] what I think it's going to be or how we're going to do that

[3:40:40] until I know the actual numbers.

[3:40:45] Mr. Coppano, I have talked about it.

[3:40:49] And, you know, they don't want to, I should say,

[3:40:52] he doesn't want to take the lead position on it.

[3:40:55] However, as questions come up,

[3:40:57] and we're obviously going to have a lot of questions,

[3:41:00] we're going to have to run them through, you know,

[3:41:02] their office to see, you know, to answer some of these.

[3:41:06] And, but I think you will,

[3:41:09] I'm paraphrasing here, things, he wants things to start in our, with the county board, right?

[3:41:16] They, they want, what do you, we want, right?

[3:41:19] He doesn't want to take, told me, he doesn't want to take the position of telling us what he wants,

[3:41:25] unless it starts contradicting what's for the good of the county, so to speak.

[3:41:30] I'm, like I said, I paraphrased quite a bit there.

[3:41:34] Any other questions or discussion on the referral to the Public Safety Committee?

[3:41:43] Final time, supervisor Griffith.

[3:41:47] I just want to clarify, do I understand that it will be the Public Safety Committee and the Highway Committee and Finance?

[3:41:54] As are we just, the way it's set up, we're going to send it to Public Safety.

[3:41:59] And then the debate will start if they want to turn it into a joint committee,

[3:42:02] or they wanted to start on their own, and then bring in highway at some facilities, I should say.

[3:42:11] But for simple simplification, we decided to start with just one committee as public safety.

[3:42:17] But I would anticipate very quickly that I can't speak for Mr. Will, that they're going to turn it into some kind of joint committee.

[3:42:25] is that fair?

[3:42:30] Anyone else?

[3:42:33] I don't see any more questions. So we have a motion in a second.

[3:42:39] I guess we'll move to the vote. All those in favor say aye. Opposed nay.

[3:43:01] Okay, and I should

[3:43:02] I should point out that we had a supervisor, friend, Fenric, had to leave. So he's

[3:43:08] the excuse.

[3:43:15] We haven't voted on anything so long we got to turn them back on. The motion has been

[3:43:20] approved 23 in favor and not opposed.

[3:43:25] So our next county board meeting will be Tuesday March 18th

[3:43:29] at 6 o'clock. I believe the next, I don't have a date for the next public safety committee meeting,

[3:43:37] But I believe it's the first week in March, Tuesday.

[3:43:43] OK,

[3:43:48] on March 4th, OK.

[3:43:50] So obviously, there's not going to be a lot happening other

[3:43:53] than I think they're going to sort out the future of how they

[3:43:55] want to address this.

[3:43:57] So I can't speak for Mr. Will, but that's what I anticipate.

[3:44:00] OK, are there any other announcements for the good of the order?

[3:44:05] Anything?

[3:44:06] I don't see anything.

[3:44:08] That'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

[3:44:10] Motion by supervisor beer second by supervisor Simon and it is not debatable

[3:44:15] moved to the vote all those in favor press your button i oppose nay

[3:44:38] Okay, the motion has been approved 23 in favor and none oppose we stand adjourned

County Board of Supervisors

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