[0:02] Okay, it's all you, Andrea.

[0:04] >> Okay, it is Monday, April 6th at 3:02m

[0:09] and we have our stewardship committee

[0:11] meeting. Members in the room are Molly

[0:15] uh Taylor and Mark Pope and uh Melody

[0:19] McCalis from this uh Grand County

[0:22] Commission liaison online. Oh, we also

[0:25] have uh Christie

[0:28] >> Kristen Hoffine. Sorry, I don't know why

[0:30] I slipped up on that. And then online,

[0:33] we have members Tom Dylan and we have

[0:35] Katie Stevens from the BLM. So, and

[0:39] myself, Andrea Brand. So, uh, the first,

[0:42] um, order of business is action item to

[0:45] decide, um, uh, if we need any edits for

[0:48] our letter to the commission.

[0:52] And

[0:55] let's see, you have that up, but I think

[0:59] No, that's not the one I want.

[1:02] >> Oh, do you do you have the correct one

[1:04] then?

[1:04] >> Yeah. Yeah, I sent it to you, but I can

[1:06] put it up on my end. It'll be bigger.

[1:08] >> Yeah. Yeah. Do it on your end then.

[1:13] Wait a second. Let me make sure you're

[1:15] it's uh

[1:17] >> Oh, you want me to share my screen?

[1:19] >> Yeah, share your screen if you could.

[1:21] >> Do that again. Let me go back.

[1:24] Share.

[1:26] Post. Disabled attendee screen sharing.

[1:31] Disabled. Share.

[1:33] >> Is Is it working now? Try now.

[1:37] No, it still has the dialogue box says

[1:40] disable.

[1:45] » It's not working. They changed the

[1:47] setting. Hold on here.

[1:52] Share settings.

[2:01] Well, he's working on that. Would it be

[2:02] appropriate if I just clarified a little

[2:06] bit?

[2:09] » So, we're meeting for the approval of

[2:12] letter and through my

[2:18] involvement with the letter. I just

[2:20] wanted to state this is in response to

[2:23] our public hearing. So, the public

[2:24] hearing opens up at 6 PM tomorrow. So I

[2:29] just wanted I didn't know if everyone

[2:30] just understood the whole process.

[2:32] >> Yeah. So appreciate that.

[2:34] >> Yeah. Just that this the start will be a

[2:37] public hearing for what started as the

[2:40] planning commission uh sending the

[2:42] letter as to recommend to the county

[2:45] commission for a public hearing.

[2:49] >> Avery, are you going to present? Are you

[2:51] going to be public the letter

[2:53] >> or you just going to send the letter? I

[2:56] was gonna read it or a portion of it

[2:59] because we only had two minutes. Okay.

[3:02] >> Um

[3:03] >> and you have to wait

[3:03] >> three minutes

[3:05] >> and you have to wait till six

[3:07] >> whatever.

[3:08] >> No, not anymore. But only time. So they

[3:11] were you doing public hearings after six

[3:13] o'clock, but when we reread the code,

[3:15] the only time we have to do a public

[3:16] hearing after six o'clock is if it

[3:19] require if it affects the budget or like

[3:21] fee structure. So I think I can open the

[3:24] public hearing immediately. after

[3:26] assistance. Well, we have a few other

[3:27] things. We have like

[3:30] >> some other miscellaneous things and then

[3:31] we'll go into the public hearing.

[3:33] >> As long as it was noticed that

[3:35] >> it should have been noticed that way

[3:36] because that's what Dana was going to

[3:37] do.

[3:37] >> As long as it was noticed that way

[3:38] though. Okay.

[3:39] >> And I'll double check with her. But

[3:40] that's where it should be. Um

[3:41] >> No, I was just trying and not was on the

[3:43] agenda for after because before we were

[3:45] doing it that way. We were doing all

[3:46] public hearings after six o'clock. Yeah.

[3:48] >> But when she read the law, she's like we

[3:51] don't have to wait till after 6.

[3:52] >> But on the website it says after 6 and

[3:54] then I called in and she said, "Well,

[3:57] you can't do a comment until after 6."

[4:00] >> And she said that

[4:02] >> the day Dana on the phone and then just

[4:04] for general com but you could do a

[4:06] general comment before public hearing

[4:08] but otherwise it opens up

[4:10] >> right so when the public hearing opens

[4:13] for public comment. So basically what

[4:15] will happen is they'll open the public

[4:16] hearing and then the public hearing is

[4:19] open for a number of days set by the

[4:22] >> and then during that time every comment

[4:24] that is that comes in for that public

[4:27] hearing is meant to be sort of taken

[4:29] into consideration by the legislative

[4:32] body and then they vote on it at the

[4:34] next one. That's why our commission does

[4:36] it that way.

[4:36] >> Right.

[4:37] >> Yeah. So any comment that is made during

[4:40] that period whether it's in that meeting

[4:42] at 6:00 or whatever time like that

[4:44] part's kind of immaterial after it's

[4:46] open whatever comments are supposed to

[4:48] be included in packets or or logged in

[4:51] some way so that they become part of the

[4:53] record if it ever does go to or

[4:55] litigation.

[4:56] >> So there will not be a vote unless

[4:58] >> No, it's going to be unless they decide

[4:59] to suspend policy which can happen. They

[5:02] can the commission always has the option

[5:04] to suspend policy and vote immediately.

[5:07] Um, usually in something like a land use

[5:09] decision, they there would be no reason

[5:11] for that unless um it's a one of those

[5:14] decisions that people wouldn't really

[5:16] care about something like this. I think

[5:18] it would be I mean it's in my opinion it

[5:21] would be very strange for the commission

[5:22] to decide to have something like that.

[5:24] >> Thanks. Just clarifying that it's a

[5:26] public hearing

[5:27] >> and

[5:29] you can we'll be voting on it. We'll

[5:31] have have the whole, you know,

[5:33] >> 10 days or whatever to have public

[5:35] hearing come in through emails and then

[5:38] we'll vote on next.

[5:40] >> You can revisit that. So,

[5:41] >> no, it's me. It's me. So, um it's just

[5:45] been

[5:47] >> okay. There was there was one change

[5:48] that I would like to recommend. It's in

[5:50] this paragraph here.

[5:51] >> One that's the big one that you see

[5:53] right there. The word adjacent

[5:55] >> that the 235 acre parcel is uh located

[5:59] adjacent. In this case, it's adjacent.

[6:02] >> You may have gotten rid of

[6:05] both.

[6:08] >> I I prefer the word encompasses parts of

[6:10] both instead of adjacent.

[6:12] >> I like that better.

[6:14] >> Encompasses.

[6:15] >> The parcel encompasses.

[6:17] >> Encompasses.

[6:18] >> What the?

[6:19] >> Yeah. It's not adjacent to those trails.

[6:23] >> Well, I would say adjacent to and

[6:25] encompasses.

[6:26] >> Fine.

[6:26] >> All right. Because it is next. You know

[6:28] that that word is um

[6:31] >> so

[6:33] >> basically

[6:34] it and encompasses parts of both.

[6:39] >> Oh, what the heck does that say?

[6:43] » Okay. And encompasses parts of both.

[6:47] >> And we have a double and back.

[6:49] >> Thank you. Oh, there it is. Surprised it

[6:52] didn't come up and tell me.

[6:59] Okay.

[7:00] >> You need to say of both. Can you just

[7:02] say parts of the SL?

[7:06] >> It's nice to say both.

[7:08] >> I think I like both because it it's not

[7:10] just

[7:11] >> just

[7:13] >> um

[7:15] Okay, for that paragraph, you didn't

[7:16] have anything else.

[7:20] And then um

[7:22] background or mission statement.

[7:25] um then that it's managed the

[7:27] destination special recreation

[7:28] management area

[7:32] and um visitation and I got this updated

[7:37] by the BLM. I was always saying 17

[7:39] million at usually when I would do my

[7:42] annual report and uh Bill Bill Stevens

[7:45] looked at it again and gave me um said

[7:48] another 8 million. So,

[7:50] uh,

[7:53] um, yeah. So, there's the 99 businesses,

[7:55] 75 that are local.

[7:58] There's our easement that the county and

[8:01] the BLM have with the

[8:03] handover

[8:06] our concerns.

[8:12] There is one thing I I realize our

[8:14] letter doesn't have to speak to every

[8:16] argument made by the planning commission

[8:19] and its approval. And maybe if you're

[8:21] speaking, you know, you can go off the

[8:23] letter a little bit. There was a a

[8:24] comment made that the because of the

[8:26] topography of the parcel is capped or

[8:30] limited as to what can be built, which

[8:32] may or may not be true. However, the

[8:35] correlary to that is most of the

[8:37] buildable land is where the trails are.

[8:39] Well, so that's true and it's not. So

[8:43] topography

[8:45] as it stands it it because it's in a

[8:48] water source protection district it will

[8:51] be it is considered constrained lands by

[8:53] our land use code which limits the

[8:55] density because of that. Um, and because

[8:59] it is a water source protection

[9:00] district, it will also require a CD to

[9:03] be developed because water source

[9:06] protection districts require specific

[9:08] engineering and this one is specific to

[9:09] the city. So, it would require us

[9:10] working with the city to get that done.

[9:13] Um but that that doesn't mean that it

[9:16] can't be done like with enough money

[9:18] these things as we've as the county is

[9:20] discovering can be done and they can be

[9:23] done relatively easily as um techn

[9:26] technology continues.

[9:27] >> But if you didn't have that capability

[9:29] you would tend to build where it's less

[9:31] steep and flatter and that's where our

[9:34] trails are going to be.

[9:35] >> You can't argue that it's not going to

[9:36] impact the trails because of the limited

[9:38] building.

[9:39] putting the higher density.

[9:41] >> And the way that the law works as far as

[9:43] easements go is that just has to if if

[9:46] an easement is granted, it doesn't have

[9:48] to stay exactly where it is. It just has

[9:50] to um they just have to maintain the

[9:53] access.

[9:54] >> Um

[9:55] >> but would revenge have to stay where it

[9:57] is because it's a prescriptive easement?

[9:59] >> No,

[10:01] >> we had to move at seven mile. We had to

[10:03] move Gemini Bridges access to around the

[10:06] Balls property not that long ago and it

[10:09] was there

[10:10] been there for years and years and years

[10:12] and they moved it to the edge of their

[10:13] property

[10:15] and they can you know and those I mean

[10:18] they could do that now but there's not

[10:20] this isn't going to prevent or allow

[10:22] that either way they can do that that's

[10:24] their right as property owners as

[10:26] private property owners um they just

[10:29] have to allow these not exactly what the

[10:32] reason

[10:34] Well, a mile of the Slick Rock Trail. I

[10:38] mean, it's a mile long ement trail,

[10:40] >> right? And the BLM does hold the

[10:42] easement. That easement was gotten from

[10:44] Charlie Steen in 1969. So, I checked

[10:47] that today that the BLM does indeed hold

[10:51] an easement on the Slick Rock Bike

[10:53] Trail. Yeah, those have all been

[10:55] perfected over. Yeah, I thought I think

[10:56] they in

[10:57] >> 2016 Katie is when it was looked at

[11:01] again because when they built the

[11:03] Raven's Rim, they uh realized that it

[11:06] when they were in the process of it,

[11:07] they realized that the bike trail was

[11:08] not really where it was supposed to be

[11:10] in the paperwork. So

[11:13] that was, you know, rectified by 2016.

[11:16] Yeah,

[11:19] >> I feel your first paragraph under

[11:21] concerns is concise and uh clear and uh

[11:27] points out the confusion of why not the

[11:29] special zoning, right? Of like why, you

[11:33] know, of that they're going for this um

[11:37] bigger resort commercial and there's

[11:39] other options.

[11:40] >> Correct.

[11:40] Is that how it's that? That's

[11:43] very concise and nice that you point

[11:45] that out.

[11:46] >> Are these zonings defined by the state?

[11:48] >> Are they local?

[11:50] >> Local. Okay.

[11:51] >> The state has given a lot of leeway to

[11:54] the local jurisdictions to write their

[11:56] own land use codes and actually requires

[11:58] them to

[11:59] >> because it sound like there was some

[12:00] confusion about where resort special can

[12:02] and can't be applied and I thought, do

[12:05] we have any control over that? Can we

[12:06] resolve that issue? Well, so our general

[12:10] plan, uh, we have what's called the

[12:12] north corridor something plan. Um, and

[12:16] in that is where both of these zoning

[12:19] designations are are listed. Um, a lane

[12:24] amendment generally has to abide by what

[12:26] the general plan says. our general plan,

[12:30] it speaks specifically to both resort

[12:33] special and resort commercial and where

[12:34] they can and cannot be in in relation to

[12:37] properties. Um, and that's what the

[12:40] commission was speaking to specifically.

[12:45] » But resort special remains an option for

[12:48] this property.

[12:49] >> Okay.

[12:51] >> Well, yeah. So the

[12:54] >> go the weeds of

[12:55] >> the planning commission letter didn't

[12:57] really address any of that. They just

[12:59] approve the regional commercial.

[13:02] >> Yeah. They uh so so they're also

[13:05] limited. If if an applicant doesn't say

[13:07] that they want something like that, we

[13:09] couldn't change it like this wasn't

[13:12] there.

[13:13] >> They couldn't it's not in their perview

[13:15] to do that. If someone comes here and

[13:16] says like we want to go hike this, you

[13:18] say you don't send them somewhere else.

[13:20] So the commission could deny it then

[13:21] they can come back with a different

[13:24] >> resume.

[13:25] >> Okay. So any other edits under concerns?

[13:29] >> Let's see. The rest of it is uh

[13:32] about the roadway and illegal access is

[13:36] near the hot tubs

[13:39] would necessitate paving portions of the

[13:41] elderbench trail.

[13:43] >> Yeah.

[13:44] And that wasn't ne clear to me. So

[13:47] what I remember before when I did have

[13:48] access to the parcel map, there were

[13:50] kind of two corners of this property

[13:52] that impacted Hell's Revenge. One would

[13:54] be in the southeast quadrant near the

[13:57] exit of tipover challenge where the

[13:59] current exit of Hell's Revenge would be

[14:01] and you could you could put a paved road

[14:03] right up to there, but that's separate

[14:05] from the hot tubs.

[14:06] >> So the question would be, do you have

[14:08] access to both corners?

[14:09] >> It's whatever their legal access is,

[14:11] >> which is the hot tubs. So there

[14:14] when when a property is entitled it gets rights it gets legal access to

[14:21] the property whatever that legal access

[14:23] is is the only one that they have that

[14:27] they have control over. So if we grant

[14:30] if the county grants them commercial

[14:33] access or commercial uses on that

[14:34] property whatever road they have legal

[14:37] access on is the one that they are

[14:39] getting rights on. So if that's the top

[14:42] part, it doesn't matter if it's

[14:43] accessible somewhere else. The only

[14:46] legal right they have is to a legal

[14:49] access. If they wanted to change that, is something completely different.

[14:53] They would have to vacate it. It would

[14:54] be something that they would have to um

[14:57] do on their own. We can't make them do

[14:59] that. So if legal access is health

[15:01] revenge which they it is the only access

[15:06] that they can change the only access

[15:08] they can pave is hell's revenge

[15:10] >> right what I guess my question is that

[15:12] there are there are two places where the

[15:14] hell's revenge trail enters this

[15:17] property from two different corners

[15:19] would they have to improve both of those

[15:21] or one of them

[15:23] >> um I I don't think that they I think

[15:25] that their access is only one of them

[15:27] >> okay

[15:28] >> whichever one their legal access The hot

[15:29] tubs would not necessarily be

[15:32] if they come in.

[15:34] >> Yeah, but I don't think that's the legal

[15:36] access. I think the top is

[15:37] >> I see.

[15:38] >> Wow.

[15:39] >> That means their current Raven's Rim is

[15:41] not illegal access.

[15:43] >> No, they're just using they're accessing

[15:45] it from 191, but that's not their legal

[15:47] access to the property.

[15:49] >> And those are very different things. And

[15:50] that's

[15:52] those that would probably have to be

[15:53] annexed to the city in order to get that

[15:55] >> and that came up too. And you said that

[15:58] that's granted access right now at the

[16:00] highway. Is that called granted access?

[16:02] >> No, I have no idea what it is.

[16:04] >> So significant is say you pave pave the current exit by lines back. That's

[16:10] marginally impactful. But if you if you

[16:13] come in by the hot tub, you're talking

[16:14] about paving half of the

[16:18] half of Hell's Revenge if not more than

[16:20] half just to get to that

[16:21] >> corn. Yeah. I mean, I think I don't

[16:22] think I maybe I didn't articulate it

[16:23] well the first time this came up, but

[16:25] that was like always has always been my

[16:26] biggest concern with this. Please don't

[16:28] is that and that's that's it.

[16:31] >> Yeah. And I I didn't get that either

[16:34] last time at all.

[16:35] >> And when we met with editor, that was my

[16:36] thing. I said if you guys wanted to move

[16:38] your change access, then this would be

[16:39] an appropriate thing to come do. Until

[16:43] that happens, I don't I didn't think it

[16:44] was

[16:45] >> either that or putting a paved road that

[16:48] cuts through Health Revenge to get to

[16:50] that location as opposed to Health

[16:52] Revenge itself or would you have to be

[16:54] >> They would have to They only have legal

[16:56] access because it's granted from BLM2.

[16:59] They only have the class E road.

[17:01] >> So that basically with redemption.

[17:04] >> Yeah.

[17:06] >> And and who would pay for that road?

[17:07] >> They would have to. Well, I mean there

[17:10] they could make an argument that the

[17:11] county has to because they granted them

[17:13] the entitlements.

[17:15] I don't know if they would win, but they

[17:17] could try that.

[17:20] >> Wow.

[17:22] >> Okay. So, is that given that legal

[17:24] access property is via class D road near

[17:26] the hot tubs, this would likely

[17:28] necessitate paving portions of the Herbs

[17:30] trail. Such changes would fundamentally

[17:32] alter character of the trail system and

[17:34] diminish the experience that supports

[17:35] local guiding businesses and

[17:36] recreational users. The economic impact

[17:39] on the 75 local businesses operating

[17:41] under BLM permits would be substantial

[17:43] with correspond corresponding effects on

[17:45] the broader local economy.

[17:49] » Okay. Um that brings up that point. So

[17:52] that's great.

[17:54] >> The uh the committee also noted that we

[17:56] had this in our letter last year that

[17:58] allowing alternative access points from

[18:00] the Hell's Revenge exit road could

[18:02] compromise Santa Claus's abilities to

[18:04] manage its trail system. This includes

[18:06] impacts to revenue collection, visitor

[18:08] safety, orientation and resource

[18:10] protection.

[18:12] And why is it highlighting that there?

[18:14] We wanted to say it that way though,

[18:16] right? Since this establishment

[18:18] >> has been managed to maintain.

[18:21] >> Well, I mean,

[18:22] >> yeah, I think it should say

[18:23] >> I think I should say that on the heck

[18:28] >> uh to maintain it natural character

[18:31] without commercialization of its core

[18:33] resources. The proposed reszone

[18:34] represents a significant departure from

[18:36] that approach and introduces the

[18:38] potential for long-term changes to both

[18:40] the environmental integrity and the

[18:42] visitor experience of the area. For

[18:44] these reasons, Samplot stewardship

[18:45] committee voted to recommend denial of

[18:47] the reszone application in its current

[18:49] form, finding that it conflicts with the

[18:51] established management objectives of the

[18:53] Slots Recreation Area.

[18:56] >> We need a motion.

[18:59] I make a motion we accept this letter um

[19:02] as modified to be submitted to the

[19:06] commission.

[19:09] >> I second.

[19:13] » Do we need to say it the way exactly the

[19:15] way I've written it in the minutes of

[19:19] this?

[19:22] Good.

[19:23] >> Okay. Molly seconded.

[19:27] Okay. Um

[19:30] Tom and Tom, can you hear us?

[19:33] >> Yes.

[19:34] >> Okay. So, uh we're going to vote on this

[19:38] motion.

[19:40] All in favor?

[19:44] » You're abstaining. Okay.

[19:50] » All right. And we have um Tom.

[19:55] Okay. Thank you. All right, we can go

[19:59] into the next one

[20:02] which um

[20:05] so this Okay, so the next one is

[20:08] Okay, let me just give you some

[20:10] background on this. So week before Jeep

[20:13] Safari, uh we were pretty busy because

[20:16] there are people that don't want to be

[20:17] here Jeep Safari and they come before

[20:18] and after anyway and I was talking to

[20:21] Lucas Turk Turkington who is the um

[20:24] state one of the state rangers who comes

[20:26] up a lot to Sand Flats and we really

[20:29] appreciate him being there and he was

[20:31] saying well I can't be here these days

[20:33] because I've reached my 40 hours and we

[20:36] are limited to 40 hours. no, not allowed

[20:39] to have any overtime. And so I was

[20:42] talking to him about that and he said,

[20:44] um, you might want to call Brody Young

[20:46] because I said, well, maybe Sand Flats

[20:48] can

[20:49] uh transfer some money over to you folks

[20:52] possibly. Uh, in our original agreement

[20:55] between the the BLM and the county uh

[20:58] way back in the 1994,

[21:01] they do talk about SAM flats paying for

[21:03] some law enforcement, and we have never

[21:05] done that all these years. I guess they

[21:08] were maybe thinking Katie maybe they

[21:10] were thinking of Samplat's paying for

[21:13] BLM law enforcement. Do you have any

[21:15] idea?

[21:17] >> No. Although I think that's probably,

[21:20] you know, and we don't charge for our

[21:22] law enforcement up in Sand Flat. So

[21:24] maybe that was something they put in way

[21:26] back then, but I doubt if they were

[21:28] thinking of the state guys.

[21:32] Well, we don't have to uh you know vote

[21:37] on it today. We could just decide. I

[21:40] mean, I don't have theou ready. This is

[21:41] just a sample that Brody Young sent me

[21:45] and um I have to go to the commission

[21:48] and everything, but I just wanted to see

[21:50] what kind of support you all had for

[21:52] that. Um I did talk to Quinn Hall about

[21:55] it and he said that I needed to go to

[21:56] my, you know, committee first before I

[21:58] progressed any further. Um, looking at

[22:01] it, he had come back. Brody Young had

[22:04] suggested $28,000

[22:07] for six months um of eight hours extra a

[22:11] week for a law enforcement range. It

[22:13] wouldn't necessarily be just Lucas. It

[22:15] could be someone else as well.

[22:16] >> That entail mostly speed limit, just

[22:19] presence.

[22:20] >> Presence. And what he does now is he

[22:22] sits um right near the exit of Fins and

[22:25] Things

[22:26] >> and he'll do a lot of his paperwork when

[22:28] he's sitting there. He has reception and

[22:30] he's a people see him and then he also

[22:33] catches a lot of people when they come

[22:34] off of fins and things and go on the

[22:36] road really fast. He goes out on the

[22:38] trails and patrols. Um he's checking uh

[22:42] the registration as well. Um so he he

[22:46] does all of it. He helps with uh with

[22:49] accidents, emergencies as well.

[22:51] >> This winter I' I've seen that white

[22:53] truck there about 15% of the time that

[22:56] I've come through there.

[22:57] >> Yeah. So, you need more than him cuz he

[23:00] goes over a 40 hour.

[23:01] >> He goes over 40 in the spring and the

[23:03] fall, I guess. Uh

[23:05] >> well, he would he is avail he would like

[23:07] to be available to go over 40. I guess

[23:09] they've gotten tighter. What What do you

[23:11] think of this, Kristen?

[23:13] >> I just have a question. Why aren't you

[23:14] guys just utilizing title 17, modifying

[23:17] it, and making the sheriff take it?

[23:21] Title 17 is a is a

[23:26] govern. Well, but title 17 allows the

[23:28] sheriff to uh it was a an agreement

[23:31] between BLM and the sheriff.

[23:32] >> Well, we do have Brad Hines up there

[23:34] sheriff.

[23:35] >> Yeah. What a I mean he's a sergeant. I

[23:38] think

[23:39] >> I think like to I know this is a tight

[23:41] budget. So I think I was just trying to

[23:43] um I mean I think that the sheriff would

[23:45] have I think that you know maybe try

[23:47] that way to save money.

[23:50] Okay. If

[23:50] >> you already have title 17, it would

[23:53] require very little modification to

[23:56] >> Sorry, am I speaking really out of order

[23:58] on

[23:59] just exploring this? I've only talked to

[24:01] Brody and I've only talked to uh Quinn

[24:04] Hall.

[24:04] >> Okay.

[24:05] >> So, um

[24:06] >> yeah, you just already have title 17. Um

[24:09] adding in a section with law enforcement

[24:12] specifically for all of these things

[24:14] that are dictated in Title 17.

[24:17] Technically, if the county is has

[24:19] already adopted it, it is the county's

[24:22] obligation to enforce it, even by the

[24:25] sheriff. So, I mean, I don't think that

[24:28] I I mean, I I get that what you're

[24:30] trying to do, but I just think that the

[24:31] county already is already obligated

[24:32] under title 17.

[24:34] >> Okay.

[24:34] >> Sounds like I need to explore more with

[24:36] the sheriff.

[24:37] >> Okay.

[24:37] >> Is it a class B county road?

[24:40] >> Class. Yeah.

[24:41] >> Okay. So, it's in their jurisdiction

[24:43] already. Mhm.

[24:44] >> And then I've seen him sitting there

[24:45] too, but I've never actually seen him,

[24:48] you know, pulling something over. So,

[24:50] couldn't even it rotate with like the

[24:53] sand flat staff being more official

[24:55] looking vehicle sitting there like

[24:58] >> he does.

[24:59] >> So, in other words, you want me to yell

[25:00] at people, Molly?

[25:02] >> No. Flash your lights on him.

[25:04] >> No, there's We definitely appreciate law

[25:07] enforcement. We need law enforcement. We

[25:10] can only do so much.

[25:12] for the day. Somebody was doing donuts

[25:14] in the parking lot.

[25:16] >> I yell at them if they are.

[25:18] >> Okay.

[25:19] >> All right.

[25:20] >> Definitely appreciate all of the law

[25:21] enforcement presence that we get up

[25:23] there.

[25:23] >> And Jeff Urban will rotate in there. I

[25:25] mean, he Lucas isn't the only state,

[25:27] >> right?

[25:29] >> Okay.

[25:30] >> Yeah.

[25:31] And you guys, I don't know if you could

[25:33] know, you know, all three law

[25:35] enforcement, you know, the county, the

[25:37] state, and uh and with the federal um

[25:41] with BLM, they all have, you know,

[25:44] four-wheel drive trucks or vehicles,

[25:47] then they all have a side by side, and

[25:49] then I think BLM has a dirt bike, you

[25:53] know, and so so I've seen them all out

[25:56] there on all those vehicles. They're

[25:58] mainly on, you know, their pickup trucks

[26:00] or four-wheel drive vehicles on the dirt

[26:02] road, but yeah, it's nice to see them

[26:03] when they're out there on the real

[26:04] trails.

[26:10] » Okay. So, it sounds like maybe we need

[26:13] to I don't know. You can tell me like if

[26:16] you have support for this. Well, but I

[26:18] think

[26:19] >> yes.

[26:20] >> Yeah. Explore options.

[26:22] >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, it sounds like we

[26:24] need to table it and not vote on it, but

[26:26] explore options and I can have things

[26:28] ready for you at the June meeting. I'll

[26:30] tell you what I found out and go from

[26:32] there. Yeah, one of the options might be

[26:34] I mean instead of actually paying for

[26:37] more would actually be somebody doing a

[26:40] calendar where like I mean it's always

[26:43] amazing like oh what you know

[26:45] >> I tried that with them a little bit but

[26:47] they're like no we are kind of all over

[26:50] the place and yeah I have talked about

[26:53] that with them like

[26:54] >> you guys kind of

[26:56] >> say okay I'm here Monday Tuesday I'm

[26:58] here but you can

[26:59] >> you can communicate where your needs are

[27:01] greatest and then they can factor that

[27:03] into their own skills.

[27:04] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're really good

[27:06] at, you know, sometimes, well, lots of

[27:08] times

[27:09] >> there won't be any law enforcement up

[27:10] there and we're just really busy and

[27:12] there aren't any issues yet, but I'll

[27:15] call dispatch or I'll or I'll text

[27:17] usually the BLM rangers and stuff. I say

[27:20] anyone available to just come up and

[27:22] drive through so that people don't think

[27:23] it's the wild west up here because it's

[27:25] just like feeling really it's really

[27:27] crowded and really chaotic and

[27:29] >> and then they come up and then sometimes

[27:30] the other week I called them the week

[27:32] before Jeep spray and right after I

[27:36] called them there was an emergency on

[27:37] Hell's Revenge SO EVERYONE WAS COMING

[27:39] ANYWAY. Then they went out and did some

[27:42] of the other stuff I was hoping for,

[27:43] which was just like some rolls on the

[27:45] trails because we'd heard about drinking

[27:47] open containers on one of the trails.

[27:49] And so I that's why I was calling for

[27:51] presence.

[27:52] >> So this would be actually just for this

[27:56] was just for the state.

[27:58] >> This one I mean this is the sample Cody

[28:01] sent me. So this isn't even

[28:02] >> Well, so they could go over meaning so

[28:05] they could come over their 40 hours.

[28:08] >> Yeah. even though it says special event

[28:11] like

[28:11] >> well this is this is anou he just pulled

[28:14] out of somewhere to give an example for

[28:16] us to have to start writing something I

[28:18] guess I just he just mentioned it he

[28:19] said I can send you some things we've

[28:22] used in the past I said okay just send

[28:23] it to me

[28:24] >> what if you had this and then you could

[28:26] use it when

[28:29] they weren't able to come

[28:33] but you needed like Jeep Safari covered

[28:37] >> well he and he had said, "How about 6

[28:40] months, 8 hours a week and I came back

[28:42] with how about 17 weeks, eight hours

[28:45] because and then that brought it down to

[28:47] 20,000 because I felt like that was

[28:49] enough coverage,

[28:51] you know, it was like 11 weeks in the

[28:53] spring and six weeks in the fall."

[28:55] So, but it sounds like I have I have

[28:58] homework. Well, I'm a couple just

[29:00] because this is also a state agency, you

[29:02] could do this under instead of a me

[29:03] anou, you would do it under a

[29:05] cooperative cooperative agreement in

[29:08] title 11. Um, which if you reach out,

[29:11] well, our office will help you with

[29:13] that.

[29:13] >> Okay. Okay.

[29:14] >> But lovely idea.

[29:16] >> Okay. Okay. Well, I, you know, I just

[29:19] thought while we're meeting, I'll put it

[29:21] on here to discuss. So since it just was

[29:24] recent happenings and um and then just

[29:27] to

[29:29] kind of tie into this uh I just wanted

[29:32] to give you um with this budget talking

[29:35] about cost and budget I thought I would

[29:38] just um give you updated and I

[29:41] unfortunately didn't print on both sides

[29:43] updated agreement stuff

[29:47] um we are 29% over last year through

[29:52] this time. And it's not just a fee

[29:54] increase. I did the math and um

[29:57] >> the warm winter we had.

[29:58] >> It's the warm winter. Yeah,

[30:00] >> that's pretty substantial.

[30:02] >> Yeah. So, that's substantial. So, I had

[30:04] some numbers wrong when we met last time

[30:06] and I caught them and went, "Oh my

[30:08] gosh." So, here's an updated one because

[30:10] I think I told you 4% when we met last

[30:12] time.

[30:13] >> Set the bar really hard. Really high

[30:14] though for future years.

[30:16] >> Yeah. We'll see. I know. Look at that.

[30:17] red line going right up.

[30:20] pink right over there.

[30:21] >> Yeah, March is crazy.

[30:22] >> Yeah, we'll see. We'll see if people

[30:24] were coming early if it starts dropping

[30:26] more quickly in the next month.

[30:29] >> Yeah, if it keeps getting hotter and

[30:31] hotter.

[30:32] >> Okay. Well, that's all I have.

[30:34] >> I have a question though, Andrea, and

[30:36] it's here. Let me share. And it's I you

[30:40] know, I don't know if anybody has the

[30:41] answer. Uh get back to my share screen.

[30:44] Um

[30:45] >> Oh, do I have to get out or you

[30:48] >> No, you're good. Can you see Can you see

[30:49] my desktop?

[30:51] >> Yeah.

[30:51] >> So, looking through this is, you know,

[30:54] back to the Hell's Revenge easement. Uh,

[30:57] you know, if I I'm scrolling through the

[30:59] document and I get to this page and I'm

[31:01] like, you know, they're highlighting

[31:03] these hot tubs that are at the top of,

[31:05] you know, sort of the dragon's tail. Uh,

[31:09] and they're saying that, you know, this

[31:10] is trespassing. And then they have a

[31:13] photo over here of the jeeps off the

[31:16] main trail and they're parked off the

[31:18] side and you know been there many many times. People play in those mini

[31:23] hot tubs let's say up at the top the

[31:25] devil hot tubs.

[31:26] >> Are they not going to allow that

[31:28] anymore? What I mean I don't understand

[31:30] why they put this in there to highlight

[31:33] uh uh that area. Does anyone

[31:36] >> the last when this came up the first

[31:38] time because Mark Steen was making that

[31:41] argument that there was trespassing

[31:43] >> anyway

[31:44] >> that raised my eyebrows because if we

[31:46] are trespassing that's a totally

[31:47] separate issue that we need to deal with

[31:49] on its own but I think it was somewhat

[31:52] of an emotional argument that was being

[31:54] made. So but you're right I mean one one

[31:57] maybe people should not be there at all

[31:58] and it should be marked accordingly. Um,

[32:01] obviously if they start developing the

[32:03] property, I'm sure there'll be more

[32:04] controls over leaving the the UR.

[32:08] >> My understanding was they needed to

[32:10] fence people out if they didn't want

[32:12] them on there.

[32:14] >> Nobody up there knows that it's private

[32:16] property at all.

[32:17] >> Correct.

[32:18] >> There's an argument that there's a

[32:20] prescriptive easement for that. Um,

[32:25] because there's nothing that's prevented

[32:27] people from using it for 20 years. it

[32:29] becomes what's called prescriptive

[32:30] easement in Utah state law. Um,

[32:34] technically because it's, you know, just

[32:36] kind of a loop.

[32:40] » Here it is on Google Maps. You can see

[32:42] how well defined it is with the tire

[32:44] tracks and stuff. But yeah. Yeah.

[32:48] >> Using it for more than 20 years. Like

[32:49] that's not even a question. Um, and it

[32:52] wouldn't be hard to even

[32:53] >> if it were on BLM land, I'd be out there

[32:56] building fences and shutting it off.

[32:58] Well, we were we did discuss this. We

[33:00] were very

[33:02] that he was bringing it up. I didn't

[33:03] know if he was bringing it up as a we're

[33:05] sharing so you should share or I didn't

[33:07] know

[33:08] >> Well, he didn't bring it up at the

[33:09] planning commission this last time.

[33:10] >> No, when he did his first presentation.

[33:14] >> Well, and in 2012

[33:16] >> when we did the easement, I asked them I

[33:19] bought the private property signs and I

[33:20] asked them, "Do you want us to put those

[33:22] up?" And they said, "No."

[33:24] Okay.

[33:26] >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah, cuz in the document

[33:27] I'm looking at here right now that was

[33:30] submitted to the county, there's no it

[33:32] just says TR area of trespassing. I'm

[33:34] like, okay, why did they put that there?

[33:36] That's why I'm scratching my head.

[33:38] >> Have to use the things they had last

[33:39] time. But

[33:40] >> yeah, they were um Yeah, my my memory is

[33:44] that they were pretty upset that that

[33:46] the prior staff said that um that was recommending denial on this for a

[33:53] lot of reasons. and they said that in

[33:55] sort of not retaliation but that they

[33:57] might um limit access to that because of

[34:01] that.

[34:03] >> So sounds when it comes to that we'll

[34:05] have to look into whether or not it's

[34:08] >> because it's not a county road because

[34:10] it's you know it would it would be more

[34:13] prescriptive easement sort of fight.

[34:15] >> Yeah.

[34:15] >> Um and it would be up to the commission

[34:18] on how how far they wanted to take that

[34:21] fight.

[34:21] >> Right.

[34:22] >> Yeah. I I just went to another mapping

[34:25] online mapping system and here it's it's

[34:27] actually highlighted as a road on this

[34:30] one. It's this little loop right here.

[34:33] >> Well, you know,

[34:33] >> we have a lot of problem with that with

[34:35] Google Earth, Google Maps where people

[34:37] go in and start making trails that

[34:39] aren't there without any regard to

[34:41] what's designated and not. So, this is

[34:44] battle to fight if it goes there.

[34:46] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's That's little

[34:48] compared to what we're dealing with,

[34:50] right? Zone change.

[34:52] >> Okay. But yeah, I just had the question

[34:54] just scrolling through that document. It

[34:56] was just like, okay, what's what's up

[34:58] with that?

[34:59] >> Okay.

[34:59] >> Well, sure. All right. Well, thank you.

[35:02] Um, I guess we can adjourn.

[35:05] >> Thank you for coming. You have a wealth

[35:07] of knowledge on the rails.

[35:10] >> Okay. She votes to the journey.

SFRA - Stewardship Committee Meeting, April 6, 2026

Transcript