[0:01] Well, hey Paul. How are you?

[0:10] » What you you running for governor? What you running?

[0:19] So this is my last >> This is your land. This is your land.

[0:24] Well, the only reason I'm doing it is because I started it while I was still

[0:29] doing the circuit writer help. So, I'm actually the energy efficiency tech. So,

[0:36] » well, cool. >> I mean, nobody

[0:39] better than you. >> You pass these out. You run the

[0:42] governor. >> No, sir.

[0:49] » Amen.

[0:55] I didn't say that [laughter]

[1:02] in one hour. All right, here we go.

[1:14] 533 and on order uh workshop the water rate and waste water rate studies. Today

[1:24] is August the 27th, 2025 26. Uh so the first on the agenda is we do have

[1:35] a forum present with all members being present

[1:39] and so we're going to go right into the

[1:43] workshop.

[1:46] » Yeah. >> Well, just give me a second. I'll get

[1:50] this uh I'll get this going. I hope

[2:10] we on the right line. Um that I don't want to change the HDMI

[2:22] » my input. >> Yeah, there isn't an input on this.

[2:32] Come on.

[2:39] Oh, >> says press Windows plus P to get to

[2:43] projection.

[2:57] I've never had it. I just plugged it in and it popped up before. I don't know.

[3:10] We went to your office. So, we went to your office first and

[3:15] then we had to read the I read uh let me see those pages to be able to choose

[3:23] HDMI one.

[3:29] There we go.

[3:34] I was going to cast it, but at this point,

[3:41] it should pop up here in a sec.

[3:50] » I guess connect device.

[4:10] Was

[4:27] that where we were at work?

[4:38] It does have the casting device in HDMI 3.

[4:41] » I think you have to make Wi-Fi. >> No,

[4:48] it has a casting device. >> It does.

[4:50] » Okay.

[4:55] I mean, every

[4:58] Let me get Yeah, let me get to

[5:10] They look

[5:17] so

[5:20] if you're on the same Wi-Fi

[5:32] COGS 32. >> Can you see if it'll

[5:38] » What are we looking for? >> Looking for the the just cogs training.

[5:42] » See if it'll cast if you hooked to their Wi-Fi. Connect.

[5:46] » Password is capital C O Gs

[5:52] 132. exclamation.

[6:03] » But that would be the cast. You want to try HDMI too?

[6:06] » We'll see if we can cast first.

[6:17] Okay. So, Windows C.

[6:24] I thought it was Windows desk.

[6:29] Oh, I made the T came up when I put Windows K. of them and uh

[6:36] display they're available window

[6:42] screen

[6:52] do this old school with the papers we can't get

[7:00] [clears throat] I don't I would think PC See spring?

[7:11] » Yes.

[7:22] um

[7:29] in the settings

[7:44] I know that all that's for iOS

[7:49] Oh, is this >> HTML 2? Is it

[8:11] » Yes.

[8:25] Which port is it plugged into? >> Well, we we tried again. It work. We

[8:30] tried to see. It didn't work. So,

[8:37] » do you want to try your cord?

[8:58] insurance.

[9:08] It's the white.

[9:12] » Yeah, really

[9:19] put me on. Yeah. So, I guess soon

[9:30] it's closed.

[9:36] probably never had any checkup since we've been in here. This is blowing his

[9:40] way. Oh yeah. Look here. Oh.

[9:47] » Oh yeah. >> This [laughter]

[9:51] was the same or is it open?

[9:56] » No. Anybody

[10:03] else?

[10:15] » It ain't I mean it's completely

[10:24] off. >> Which one are we in? One. one

[10:40] options. What was that? >> Screen

[10:48] sharing power.

[10:52] connection

[11:03] center.

[11:09] Um, >> okay.

[11:10] » So, >> TV name.

[11:14] » You think it's Windows V? >> It's on the screen PC screen only.

[11:20] » Go back to your electric

[11:31] screen. That's it.

[11:38] » Windows

[11:44] if it actually

[11:52] acting like it's trying to connect with. What is that? It says to select on your

[11:59] screen. Huh? says selected on preceding

[12:06] » Wednesday.

[12:26] I guess a car on fire because the entire like midsection like two miles was just

[12:34] on pretty good.

[12:38] » Oh yeah.

[12:42] » The TVs are too truck

[12:50] big in the middle big tires.

[12:59] disconnect just

[13:04] popped out kind of

[13:13] after

[13:18] limiting the inputs just

[13:23] we have I didn't

[13:28] get there. You could find >> You just need something over there.

[13:34] » I think that one's sitting over there.

[13:39] » That's one of our sitting.

[13:44] » Oh, really? >> You need connections.

[13:50] » Somebody get it connect manager.

[13:55] That's where we were last. So there he is. He's

[14:03] beside his own. >> Okay.

[14:08] I don't know what to do to tell you the truth. Let me uh let me open up this

[14:16] door.

[14:26] If it ask me for because it's not asking for

[14:31] to do anything. >> If you do the control P, it still

[14:33] doesn't ask you for anything. >> No, not the control the Windows key.

[14:40] » Do you say duplicate? Pull it.

[14:48] » Now you have to do the other one to get it to cast. What? You do Windows K.

[14:53] » Windows K. >> That's where it popped up.

[14:59] » Well, maybe he can't find device. >> Oh, I just go old school and I'm going

[15:04] to give you the paper version of that.

[15:10] You can always do like a library.

[15:17] So my next thing you can type in cast it

[15:23] I'll show you all those options

[15:30] button.

[15:42] » Are you still on the internet? >> Yeah. Yes.

[15:54] Um

[16:00] still clear about these.

[16:15] What we're doing

[16:28] 10 or 11? >> I think it's 11

[16:32] project.

[16:46] Do you want to see if it will um reject my computer and then you can just email

[16:50] it to me? >> I can email it to you real quick. Let's

[16:53] try that.

[16:56] » That's not a problem.

[17:04] It actually should be the same one I emailed you before, but I'll email it

[17:08] again. So, it'll be on the top of the list. So need

[17:35] I just read text there.

[17:47] something

[17:52] called something

[18:02] [clears throat] our laptop connect to it and you can see

[18:05] what I'm trying to do on his side.

[18:33] I make a motion.

[18:38] I was just getting so I can make a motion.

[18:42] No silence today. We were so busy.

[18:50] Did you have water? Do you have water?

[18:54] » No, >> there's another break somewhere.

[19:02] Where was it?

[19:12] » I sent you.

[19:22] It's the one that says 37.

[19:46] Keep protect.

[20:14] So we can't we won't take action anything. This is just a recation.

[20:19] » Yeah. Presentation

[20:24] and that's okay. And that's what we've already

[20:29] done. We're going to run Monday. So sometimes this gets kind of

[20:35] complicated and we can't figure it out.

[20:44] after.

[20:52] » What?

[21:03] This is our crap wag.

[21:34] else. Uh yeah, I didn't consider

[22:17] I was having the same trouble with like something wrong

[22:27] or something

[22:36] wasn't I guess

[22:40] it should be

[22:58] too.

[23:14] 30%. Yes.

[23:23] That's my

[23:32] start.

[23:38] Wow. Wow. That was a lot for uh [laughter]

[23:45] at uh technical difficulties to say the least.

[23:50] Um what what you're going to see is is

[23:54] actually in the handout. That's why I said I I was fixing to go old school

[23:58] because I was getting frustrated with the technology. So uh what you're going

[24:04] to see is the expenses that u water and on the next page you'll see

[24:11] the expenses for wastewater. Um what I want to do is I want to explain how how

[24:17] we go about figuring up water and wastewater rates. Um you'll see the item

[24:25] cost in one column and then you'll see a fixed cost and

[24:30] variable cost. Um the fixed cost is what goes towards your monthly minimum. The

[24:37] variable cost goes into what's called your price per thousand. Okay? So when

[24:45] when we're looking at these, when we're breaking up [sighs and gasps] what's

[24:49] fixed and what's variable, it's basically to try to

[24:55] um either raise or lower the fixed or variable cost. So

[25:03] what you're going to see at the bottom of this page is just on your water

[25:07] budget is you need about 1.277 277 um71 on a yearly basis.

[25:16] 62% of that is fixed and 38% of it is variable. So we have a a grand total of

[25:25] fixed cost for the waterite only of 789432

[25:32] and we have a variable cost of 488139. Okay. Um, we did both water and

[25:41] wastewater with this sheet. So, the next sheet you'll see, which is

[25:47] is the next sheet over, is the wastewater expenses. Okay? And and what

[25:55] you're going to see on this is the total expenses for the wastewater.

[26:02] It's broke up exactly the same way. The fixed costs go to the monthly minimum.

[26:08] The variable costs go to the price per thousand. Um, obviously when you look at

[26:15] the bottom line of this sheet, you're going to see a cost of

[26:21] 772641 is the total cost for your wastewater

[26:26] expenses for the year. 61% of that is fixed at 47448

[26:34] and 39% of it is variable at 298 233. Okay. So these are the expenses

[26:46] that we we got these um off the budget you know these were budgeted expenses

[26:53] for for the system. So, um, if you go look at the budget, all of these

[27:00] expenses are in there. Um, from then on, we got to figure out how to pay for

[27:05] them. So, [laughter] you know, so the the next

[27:11] sheet you're going to see is the meter data sheet. And u that sheet basically

[27:19] does all the calculations. So when we when we look at the different size

[27:26] meters, TRWA always uses what's called the

[27:31] American Waterworks Association standards for meter equivalencies.

[27:37] Okay? So you're going to see that you have 1371

[27:43] 5/8 by 3/4 inch meters in your system. Okay?

[27:49] These meters are multiplied times one.

[27:55] The the next thing the next one where you actually have meters is you got 141

[28:01] in and those meters are multiplied by 2.5.

[28:06] What you need to know about these multiplication factors is that's how

[28:10] much water will go through those meters. Okay? So if you look at the times one

[28:17] about 10 gallons a minute will go through that meter. Where if you look at

[28:23] the 1 inch meter that's 2.5 about 25 gallons a minute will go

[28:29] through that meter and so on and so forth. So the 2inch meter you got 20 of

[28:35] them about 80 gallons a minute will go through that meter. So, um, this is why

[28:42] TCEQ will allow you to charge more because it needs more capacity to to

[28:50] actually do these meters to actually service these meters and it takes a lot

[28:56] of capacity away from your water system. So in grand total when you look at this

[29:03] and you look at the meter equivalency you have

[29:08] 1778 1778

[29:12] um water meters in your system because that is what the meter equivalency says.

[29:20] Um on the wastewater side taps are always the same. They're always the same

[29:26] size. So, wastewater taps, it's just multiplied times one. Okay? And y'all

[29:32] have,98 of those. But if you want to know how

[29:37] this how you get this number, if you look on the first page

[29:44] and you look at the fixed cost of of the water, this 789432,

[29:54] all you have to do to get this this number that's up here is divide by 12

[30:00] months in the year and divide by 1778. And that's where that 37 comes from.

[30:09] Okay. So, nevertheless, it's it's um the

[30:16] multiplication factors are set up and it actually tells you. So, these 4inch

[30:21] compound meters, they should be paying 925 monthly minimum. You have four of

[30:28] them out there. These 3-in compound meters, you have seven of them out

[30:33] there. They should be paying 5.92 per month. These 28 inch meters or 22 inch

[30:43] meters, sorry, they should be times 8 at 296.

[30:48] So these bigger meters should be paying a whole lot bigger monthly minimum. And

[30:53] I know you do not have that in effect right now. So that would bring in a lot

[30:59] of extra revenue to the city just by doing that. But a surprise to whoever's

[31:04] using it, >> huh?

[31:06] » A big surprise. What would be an example of a 4 inch compound?

[31:10] » A 4 inch compound. I mean, >> probably the school um maybe Morton Salt

[31:17] out there. >> Three inch.

[31:19] » They got three of them. You said >> No, they have a three inch three.

[31:21] » They got a Okay. Morton Salt has three inch compounds.

[31:25] » Um >> maybe two inch.

[31:28] » They probably have a three or two inch more than likely.

[31:31] » Yeah. So, um, some PE places have a lot bigger meter because a lot of cities

[31:38] didn't charge they charge the same amount for a big meter as they did to

[31:43] put in a small meter. Um, so they say, "Oh, well, I need a 4 inch meter and

[31:49] they may not actually need a 4 inch meter." So when you start charging these

[31:56] these if you were to start charging these amounts for these size meters they

[32:02] may come back and say oh I didn't need a 4 inch all I needed was a two you know

[32:07] or all I need is a three or or something along that lines because they don't they

[32:13] don't want to pay what they should be paying. So, but uh same thing on the

[32:20] wastewater side that fixed cost of 33. If you take this 4748

[32:27] that's on the second page on the fixed, you divide it by 12 and you divide it by

[32:33] that 11 1198, it's going to come out to 33. So,

[32:40] um, the next sheet is the water sold worksheet, but it's also the wastewater

[32:46] sold worksheet. Um,

[32:50] the amount of money that you actually need to make is this 488 139.28.

[32:57] Uh, I started putting numbers in here until we got a little bit over that.

[33:04] Okay. So, I try to keep it uniform because I like uniform numbers. So, I I

[33:11] kept putting I put 330 in there. I put 325, 425, and that wasn't enough. I put

[33:18] 330, 430, 530, 630, 730, 830, and that wasn't enough. So, I ended up at 335 per

[33:27] thousand for the first 2,000. Uh 435 from 2 to six. uh 6 to 10 was 535, 10 to

[33:37] 20 was 635, 20 to 40 is 735, and 40 and up is as

[33:44] 835. And that's to make this amount of money.

[33:49] And if you look on those expense sheets, the variable is actually this number,

[33:54] this 488 139. So, um it carries over from that page. Now, this 537

[34:04] is what is considered the uniform cost. So, if you charge the same amount for

[34:10] every,000 gallons sold, you would charge that $527.

[34:18] What these block rates actually allows you to do is it allows you to give a

[34:24] break to the fixed income folks that don't use

[34:29] that much water. They don't have to pay the 527. If they're only using a,000

[34:35] gallons, they only have to pay 335 for it. But even if you use 10,000 gallons,

[34:43] you're only going to have to pay 335. So it it goes to everybody. Everybody gets

[34:49] this discount, but a lot of people are going to move out of that discount and

[34:54] they're going to be up here paying at this 835 because 20% of your water is

[35:01] sold at that 835 range. So,

[35:07] » which are also probably your bigger meters, your larger meters.

[35:11] » It's it's probably your bigger meters and u and u heavy just heavy users.

[35:17] there's there's people out there that are going to use over 40 um trying to

[35:22] keep their grass green or landscaping and stuff like that. So, uh there there

[35:30] are it it could be bigger meters, but it could also

[35:35] uh it it could be just a normal meter that

[35:39] they're just using a lot of water. So, um, on the wastewater side, it's a

[35:45] little bit cheaper price per thousand. Um, it's just down below

[35:52] as you can see. And it's the same way. I try to keep it uniform. And um and what

[36:00] you're seeing is starting off at a $1.50 going to 250, 350, 450, 550, 650 and um

[36:12] and the uniform cost would be basically 3.45.

[36:17] So it's it's the same way. Um you're you're selling less water or or you're

[36:24] selling less waste water than you are water. So, it's it's one of those things

[36:30] that u you just got to look and see, you know, um where you want to be on there.

[36:38] Um the summary page is just to summarize

[36:43] all of this that we talked about. But first, before we get out of this, do you

[36:48] guys have any questions about what I'm saying? I mean, I I don't if there's

[36:53] questions, please throw them out at me while we're going. So,

[37:04] » yes, >> variable, those numbers that been put in

[37:09] the 50 5050 or the 6633, those were discretionary, right? If they chose to

[37:16] put it all in fix, they took out, correct?

[37:18] » Yes. Yeah. If if we we have let's just see a 5050. Okay. So this one's 5050.

[37:27] Okay. So if we want to put it all in fixed, what we can do is we can put it

[37:33] all in fixed. I can put 100% of that into the fixed.

[37:38] As you see these numbers go up, but also what goes up is from 37 it goes to

[37:45] 42.86. >> Okay. So, so correct

[37:52] » split it that way. >> Yeah, that's why we split it that way.

[37:54] But I wanted to say that all this is variable. That's always

[37:59] » right. So, so in in replacement reserve or

[38:05] depreciation is usually a fixed, but

[38:12] it's one of those things that you can you can move around a little bit and

[38:16] play with to u to alleviate some of the higher levels on the on the monthly

[38:24] minimum. So >> the water there

[38:28] before the brick. >> Yes.

[38:32] » So the 335 was just barely above.

[38:39] » So if you're wanting for repairs and stuff like that, then I originally had

[38:45] it at like 350 and then he had another example was like 385. So you can look

[38:49] and see what the difference. So, so we know what it's going to

[38:54] generate at the 37. It's it's actually going to generate the fixed column. It's

[39:00] going to make that much money, the 37 wheel, which is the

[39:08] the 789 432. So, the 37 will make that much

[39:14] money. But just u just to show you and and I'll just put it right back where it

[39:21] was. If we put the number we have down here right now

[39:26] is 493. So if I put four, five, six, seven,

[39:33] eight

[39:36] backspace nine in here. Oh, that's I'm making a

[39:41] lot of money. Uh nine. Yeah, exactly. you know, so

[39:46] so it went from from >> 493 to 553

[39:54] just by adding that 65 cents per thousand on each of those tier. So

[40:00] there's there's ways to to play with these worksheets and uh and

[40:07] » the percentages you have like percentages where you're talking about

[40:11] we had 2 26% in as one category you did other are our numbers on like are they

[40:18] the same or average like with other count

[40:21] » it's there's >> yeah I mean you're

[40:26] some some towns don't have the big 20% on the bottom number.

[40:31] » That was 35. >> Uh it it really depends on how many

[40:35] commercial type meters you have whether that's going to be higher or not. But uh

[40:41] usually this number, these first two numbers are somewhere between 25 and

[40:47] 35%. Almost everywhere I go. Okay. The second

[40:51] number is the same way, 25 to 35%. So, usually when you get out of this 6,000,

[40:58] you've sold 50 to 70% of your water at that point. Um, so there's not a lot of

[41:06] people in in these tiers, you know, there's there's really not a lot of

[41:11] people and and u this is a lot of data entry and I didn't print these off, but

[41:18] you know, if you if you look at where we did the data entry on these um

[41:27] » once you get out of once you get out of this u the 6,000

[41:33] you're only talking about 173 people. You know, there there isn't a whole lot

[41:40] outside >> after you get past that. So, you're not

[41:45] talking about a whole bunch of people that you're going to be affecting. Most

[41:50] of your customers are up there in those top two tiers.

[41:54] I think when we were looking at all of that data by customer number, there were

[41:59] 17 17 customers use the majority of the

[42:03] water. >> 14%.

[42:07] » Well, you have Yeah. You have 14 You have 14 customers using 20 almost 21% of

[42:14] the water. 14 people, >> you know. Well, a few of them are

[42:20] property owners who own multiple houses on one count. So I don't know that

[42:25] » um >> these are be individual meeting.

[42:27] » Yeah. >> Well yeah they they have a rule in you

[42:33] know it's supposed to be one meter per resident. So they really need to come in

[42:38] and get another meter if if that's if that's the case. So plus it would mean

[42:44] more revenue for the city. [laughter]

[42:48] » Right. >> Yeah. But it's a it would be a larger

[42:52] amount of water. So um but >> be a larger meter though.

[42:57] » You could as when when you look at these >> Yeah. If you had if you had uh

[43:07] » if if you had two houses on one meter, you could actually have them on a one

[43:11] inch meter because it's two and a half times. So you could have them on a month

[43:17] on a but they would be paying more than two meters added up together because two

[43:22] meters

[43:27] » they let me fix this

[43:42] » so they go live

[43:48] the nursery

[43:53] » they took their stuff out of the crib.

[43:59] » I didn't know they didn't know after they left

[44:03] » they closed it. I remember them coming in ones

[44:06] cuz the berry one. What I think is interesting, the reason

[44:11] I asked about the 20% of the stuff working if one of those if it's a

[44:16] business and it shuts down, we're kind of banking on

[44:19] not the fix but the variable for them to be paying that. Right.

[44:22] » Right. That could kind of mess. >> It it could, but we what we try to do is

[44:29] not use a year that's been really hot. So we sort of try to underestimate the

[44:37] water sales. So if something like that happens, you still make the amount.

[44:43] Yeah. You have a little bit of cushion. So if if I'm doing rates, I try to work

[44:48] off of a wet year is great. A normal year is great. A hot year like we had

[44:55] this year is not a good year to >> estimate

[44:58] » to estimate. Yes. So, I wouldn't want to get,

[45:02] » you know, I don't I don't know if y'all remember

[45:06] 2011, but >> you know, it it was hot hot that that

[45:11] year and 2012 also, but not as hot as 11. But, [laughter] uh,

[45:21] » right. >> So, what's

[45:26] on this one?

[45:35] 297.

[45:41] » So,

[45:45] the rate that you have out the new rate, the code rate is that pays it off to

[45:49] 335. Is that what they what 733 does?

[45:56] Well, actually the 335 is the variable. 37 is the fixed.

[46:01] » I'm sorry. What time again? >> So, like the 335 to 38. 335 is the

[46:05] variable cost. So, that's the one that was on the right on that first sheet.

[46:08] That's what goes up and down based on how much water you use every month. The

[46:12] 37 is just the base you pay if you don't use.

[46:16] » So, we're going from 29.67 to $37 on the base. Just if you don't use any

[46:22] water, you still have to pay that. $7. Yeah,

[46:24] » that's what we have on the sheet right there. $7 there plus the variable rates.

[46:30] » Yes. >> Another two and a half%

[46:34] for a thousand >> for your small meters.

[46:36] » Yes. >> And then if you were to adopt the

[46:39] » sure >> the other ones in your bigger meters

[46:40] will go up significantly. Well, I think that's one we're more concerned with

[46:44] probably right now than any

[46:56] » um so my base will go to 296 >> because I don't use enough water to

[47:02] fulfill my goal or >> Well, you're still going to go up too.

[47:08] Now you're being charged 350 per thousand instead of thousand I mean a

[47:12] dollar per thousand.

[47:17] [clears throat]

[47:20] But just just to let you know these I mean these numbers are the bare minimum

[47:27] to to meet your budget. Okay. Um this this there isn't a lot of ropes so open

[47:33] dope like they say in the car business. It's it's this is the bare minimum to

[47:39] actually meet your expenses. So, it's it's one of those situations that yes,

[47:45] you can move stuff around. Um I'll I'll show you on the last couple of pages

[47:52] which are the summary pages. Um this rate summary basically has and it's also

[47:59] in your your packet here. Um you'll see that it's basically just summarized that

[48:06] you know a 3733 the uniform cost is here the the the

[48:14] cost per thousand is is each one of these but I went ahead and did one more

[48:22] up for you so you could see the difference that if you guys wanted to do

[48:28] a 3531 you could do on the last page, the very

[48:33] last page. Um, but the price of water goes up. So if you move some out of the

[48:41] monthly minimum into the variable, um, then the price of water goes up. So

[48:49] whatever you do to one side, the opposite happens to the other. So if you

[48:53] make the monthly minimum higher, the price of water goes down. If you make

[48:58] the price of water higher, the monthly minimum goes down. But all we're trying

[49:03] to do is get you to the point to where you're making the amount of money that

[49:08] you need to make to pay for the budgeted items that you guys have budgeted for

[49:14] and and be able to have money coming in to pay for those things. So,

[49:23] » so on the uh budgeted

[49:29] item spreadsheet, >> the expenses margin to the replacement

[49:36] reserve 250,000 long-term debt of 22,000 and the CI. Tell me exactly what those

[49:42] are and if those are those. >> Okay. Yes. replacement reserve is

[49:46] depreciation and that is y'all's depreciation that uh um that that you

[49:54] have every year on on the fixed assets that you have in this city. Okay. Uh the

[50:01] problem is is if if you look at your audit, you're going to see

[50:08] a big number on accumulated depreciation and then you go look at your cash

[50:14] reserves and you're going to see a lot smaller number than that accumulated

[50:20] depreciation, which tells me that you haven't funded depreciation in the past.

[50:26] So what I'm trying to get you to do is actually fund it. And it's it's uh um

[50:34] it's it's a bad deal when you when you go so many years and not

[50:39] » that's the problem we're fight we're going to be fine with right now

[50:41] » right >> we really need to be at this point but

[50:44] it should have been done so many years ago at this point

[50:47] » right and and you can only you can only do what you can do I mean you can't put

[50:53] $750,000 in here and then make your you could but

[50:59] you know It's it's you're going to have a $55 monthly minimum, you know.

[51:04] [laughter] I mean, it's uh >> basically we have to do

[51:09] » we have not kept up with all of the the upgrades and the things that we needed

[51:13] to do. that appreciation's never been factored into the budget and it's not

[51:16] factored into this current budget that was printed and given to y'all. But he's

[51:20] saying when we're determining rates, we have to start factoring that in because

[51:25] you can't make >> you have a pump that goes down

[51:30] » and then >> right now we're struggling.

[51:32] » You have a pump that goes down then what? So if you budget for it, but then

[51:35] you got that money put back when that pump goes down,

[51:38] » right? and and and I can >> the long-term debt is going to be what?

[51:43] Their loans. >> Yeah. This is their loans. Their water

[51:46] loans that >> Yeah. these this this is principal plus

[51:51] interest. What you have to pay on a yearly basis to your to your loans. And

[51:56] uh the CIP is basically a capital improvement plan to start getting money

[52:02] to improve your system. Okay. Um, I would I would like to see that start

[52:08] going up on a yearly basis and start getting some of these projects done as

[52:14] you go. Um, and and just I I always say it's better to do rates once a year than

[52:23] to rate wait five or six or 10 years. and and uh because I know before me and

[52:32] the mayor talked before, I mean, we we've talked about this more than once.

[52:36] You were still a council person when the first time we talked about it, and it uh

[52:43] it's it's been it's been slowgoing to to get to get to where you need to be. Um,

[52:50] I think when I first came here, y'all were giving away 2,000 gallons in your

[52:56] monthly minimum, which was which was actually giving away, you know, 27% of

[53:03] your water, >> you know, or

[53:10] » Yeah. And right now you're doing it on the wastewater side. And and so we we

[53:17] got it fixed on the water side, you know, and and I think I had to to

[53:23] start off with a dollar per thousand just to get them to to to actually take

[53:29] the free water out of there. I was like, just get paid something for it.

[53:34] » Yeah. Was that the ordinance? It was just not in the system,

[53:37] » right? the billing system, right? It was actually,

[53:42] » was it? Okay. >> So,

[53:45] » so it was I mean it >> did not give away the first two.

[53:48] » Well, it we had a fee, >> right?

[53:52] » Yeah. >> For that. They never put in the system

[53:54] to budge it. They did not put it in the system.

[53:58] » Yeah. >> It was zero.

[54:00] » Ah, I got you. >> Oh, yeah. [laughter]

[54:04] So you can pass all the ordinances you want,

[54:07] » right? >> But you got to watch that system to make

[54:10] sure and Yes. >> Right. Make sure that it's put into the

[54:12] billing system to go along with it. So but u all that stuff,

[54:19] » right? Well, I I feel like what we did um was I mean I I think probably what

[54:28] you need to start thinking about doing is is keep up with the expenses every

[54:33] year and and look at this at a year on a yearly basis. And if if everything goes

[54:39] up 3%, you know, raise the rates 3%. Um, but at some point once you start getting

[54:48] money in to replace this older stuff that you have, um, at some point you

[54:55] need to think about maybe switching from depreciation

[55:00] to asset management because depreciation is always going to be at yesterday's

[55:06] money because when you depreciate, when an accountant depreciates,

[55:11] they depreciate it from the they bought. So if it was bought in 1975,

[55:18] it's at 1975 prices and depreciated from 1975.

[55:25] » So it's it's one of those things in 2026, we can't buy the same. We don't

[55:32] have the same buying power. It doesn't cost $1,000 for a pump. It costs $7,000

[55:40] for a pump, you know. So, [laughter] it's uh so you you might want to start

[55:47] thinking about getting away from depreciation and go with a true asset

[55:53] management plan. So, you know what you're going to what's it going to cost

[55:58] to replace it at today's dollars, not yesterday's dollars. So

[56:04] » something else that happened was we got not a bond but it was a certificate of

[56:11] obligation for 2.3 million the payment only that's like 200,000 a year.

[56:17] » Yeah. >> Raise the rents.

[56:19] » Uh yeah. Well I mean it's it's it's right there says 202720

[56:26] you know. >> Yeah.

[56:39] You said we'd like to see it. What would you recommend for a town of our size

[56:43] that that be? >> Um, well, it depends on what kind of

[56:47] project you're thinking about doing. Um, >> 48 miles of water pipe, 30 miles of

[56:51] sewer pipe. >> Um, well, 17.

[56:57] » Yeah. Um, this this is something I always tell people if you're going to

[57:05] do a capital improvement plan, you need backup for it. You need to get an

[57:10] engineering plan and and show if if you're going to put a 100 grand in

[57:16] there, then you need to show that you're going to do a 100 grand worth of

[57:20] project. You're going to go from 6 inch line to 8 inch line or something along

[57:26] that line. you're going to go from 3inch line to 6 inch line or whatever you have

[57:32] to do. But but capital improvement is I will say this $100,000 when you're

[57:39] putting in lines in the ground, it's not going to get you very far.

[57:45] » Okay. Um what what are you paying for 6 in pipe today?

[57:51] Uh, I was told one number per foot, but that numbers change from different

[57:56] people. >> What's the average then in

[57:59] » $12 a foot? >> $12 a foot. $12 a foot

[58:03] » for six and five. >> Nor,000

[58:12] or seven years, a year, a year. Yeah.

[58:17] » But for a million dollar project. So that's what I was asking like what what

[58:21] would be a logical number to actually think in

[58:24] » well there there isn't a logical number. What the other thing you got to think

[58:30] about is in seven years is it going to cost a million dollars? You know if

[58:36] you're doing a million-doll project in seven years down the road is that

[58:40] million-doll project actually going to cost you a million3 you know and are you

[58:46] gonna have the million3? So, uh, it's there's a lot of different things to

[58:53] take into consideration when you're when you're talking about rates and talking

[58:58] about capital improvement plans. >> Yeah. Like million dollars in a in a

[59:03] text pool account that that is reserved for water improvements for wells or

[59:08] whatever, >> right?

[59:10] » Uh, but we're having to start dipping into that.

[59:15] So that I mean we're at the point we've got to feed that kitty, put that back in

[59:20] a piggy bank to take advantage of, >> but this is not based on what we have in

[59:26] the account and this is truly like >> after the at the end of a fiscal year or

[59:30] whatever. We could actually take that $100,000 and put it into an account

[59:34] along the 100 and the 250

[59:38] » and the 250. Yes. Because it is it is a depreciation. So, unless you use the

[59:44] depreciation money for some something, you you had to replace a pump or

[59:51] something like that or um yes, you should be able to put that amount of

[59:55] money in the bank and start building your bank account.

[59:59] » Okay. >> Um it's uh in the world is a little

[1:00:02] different. >> Right now, we're going to take out of

[1:00:05] just tax whatever revenue we have and we're paying all of this out of that

[1:00:09] because we're not doing any of that here. But when you look at the

[1:00:12] wastewater plant and we had the 750,000, we are only able it was only able to

[1:00:18] cover half of the project that you originally wanted it to cover.

[1:00:23] » So without completing the whole bank account to do the other half, but if you

[1:00:26] had this you finished the project. Yeah. >> So this is what we talked about the

[1:00:32] grants. We didn't qualify for because we were not doing this. We were not

[1:00:36] charging enough ourselves. >> That's right.

[1:00:38] » Okay. >> Not charging enough for our one.

[1:00:40] » Okay. Yeah, it looks like

[1:00:47] » some something else for you guys to take away. We we do what's called a rate and

[1:00:52] salary survey uh every two years. And in 2002,

[1:00:59] the rate survey said statewide me monthly minimums were 35.

[1:01:05] Okay. Um, in 2024 it was closer to 40, which is still over

[1:01:13] what we're looking at here. I'm expecting the one that we're fixing to

[1:01:18] do to be close to 45 >> uh for the monthly minimums. I I think

[1:01:24] the state average has gone up that much. About every two years, it's going up

[1:01:29] about five bucks. Um, is is what I've been seeing. That's what I pay 58 just

[1:01:35] for my good. >> Yeah.

[1:01:38] So, >> so we are still even with these rates,

[1:01:40] we're still below. This is a fairly good buy. It's really

[1:01:44] still very low for it's still that. >> No, what's the average

[1:01:51] gallons per household for an average,000 2,000 to 10,000? Well, if they PCQ says

[1:01:59] that the average household uses 6,000, but I found in rural areas the real

[1:02:05] numbers about 4500.

[1:02:11] » 50, what is that? 55% of your water is from 0 to 6,000.

[1:02:18] So

[1:02:24] I but but TCQ always said that the a normal household with kids, mom and dad

[1:02:32] kids was about 6,000 a month, you know, with not with without a bunch of extra

[1:02:39] water and outside, you know, so

[1:02:43] filling up a swimming pool. But but I found in rural areas it's more along the

[1:02:48] lines of 4500 >> precious,

[1:02:51] » you know. So if you take if you take the the

[1:02:57] let's see 92 million

[1:03:02] um divided by 12 and divided by the number of customers you have, that's

[1:03:06] going to be your average right there. So, so if you take the 92 million that

[1:03:13] 92649800, I don't have my calculator, but divide

[1:03:17] it by 12 and then divide it by this

[1:03:23] 1778. That That's going to be your average

[1:03:27] water usage. >> 4342.

[1:03:30] » 4342. How did I say 4500? That's pretty close. So, [snorts and laughter]

[1:03:37] » yeah. My calculator would look like for let's just figure

[1:03:42] out the 5,000. Yeah, using 5,000. I'd like to just see what that number is.

[1:03:45] » What a bill would be. >> What a bill.

[1:03:47] » Well, it would be 37 plus

[1:03:50] » Well, we using Are we using what? 335. >> 335.

[1:03:54] » Just say 335 for the just for the this 335.

[1:03:59] So that'll be 670 for the first 2,000 >> and then 435 times three for 5,000

[1:04:10] » for the first 2,000. >> Yeah.

[1:04:12] » 670 >> and then

[1:04:15] » which is going to be >> 1304

[1:04:23] » 1305 >> 6110.

[1:04:26] » That's just water. That's that would just be water

[1:04:30] » plus your >> Did you get that number?

[1:04:32] » So you had your face which is 37 >> plus you did the 1975 plus 37.

[1:04:39] Wait >> 37 just for them having a meter

[1:04:44] » and then the first 2,000 gallons it's going to be 335.

[1:04:49] » The first 2,000. >> Yeah, but that's per thousand.

[1:04:52] » That's per time two times 33. Yeah. 670. >> And then the two to six is going to be

[1:04:59] at 435. So 435 times >> three,000

[1:05:06] 1305. >> Yes.

[1:05:10] So, >> so 5675

[1:05:15] and then your wastewater

[1:05:19] » it's it's going to be 33

[1:05:27] bucks and then uh 750. So 1050. So 33 + 1050 which is going to be 4350.

[1:05:37] » Yeah. So

[1:05:42] $125 >> $125 for

[1:05:45] » versus what was it? >> The old rates.

[1:05:54] » We need to figure that too. So the old rates

[1:05:58] » that would be $2.

[1:06:07] $3 times three. That would be $9.

[1:06:14] And then the old What was the old rate as far as

[1:06:18] 2967? What was the story?

[1:06:30] There was

[1:06:35] 224

[1:06:48] » on the old rate. >> No. 31 + 350

[1:06:52] » 33. Didn't we go the wastewater was 33 up?

[1:06:55] » No, he's she's doing the whole 34.

[1:07:12] » Yeah, >> it's that close. is one now.

[1:07:16] » No, there there is on this, but on the old rates, I think you were uniform

[1:07:21] rate. >> Just a flat rate one.

[1:07:23] » Yeah. I don't think you charge per thousand on your tour.

[1:07:26] » No, now they charge per thousand, but it wasn't. It was the after the first two.

[1:07:31] » Oh, >> because we're giving the first two away,

[1:07:33] » right? So, so it would only be the 3,000 that you would be adding up on on that

[1:07:46] » 76 and seven. So, increase.

[1:07:59] Yeah.

[1:08:05] Have we gone up on the um trash yet? >> That's just for the that's going to

[1:08:10] » be in effect this bill which that's something I also want to remind

[1:08:13] everybody when we started the submission to all the changing the process with fun

[1:08:19] view. We were advised that they would prefer60

[1:08:23] days notice. Um that's yes. So just whenever we do get ready to start

[1:08:30] adjusting any of these rates >> three months out anyway

[1:08:35] » you might know now >> I mean we we tried to have it in effect

[1:08:38] by August and they just didn't do another

[1:08:41] » the one thing I don't want to happen is this to hit in December

[1:08:45] » don't want it >> so I would

[1:08:50] I think we need to think about doing it in increments maybe

[1:08:55] » what increments months. Six months. Six months. Six months. Six months. Instead

[1:09:00] of hit it all at one time. >> If we do six months.

[1:09:02] » We'll talk about it. >> Every six months

[1:09:08] get to where we need instead of all something. Come up with something.

[1:09:15] » Well, that's going to push you if you did it that way.

[1:09:18] » You know, if you were to raise it every every three if you were to raise it 3%

[1:09:21] every year like you should, well, then that's going to

[1:09:25] » Well, okay. Let me let me back up a minute. So if we're basically going up

[1:09:28] $30 a month for average household that uses 5,000 gallons to go up 15 now and

[1:09:34] six months go up 15 more and then at that point forward move up where we need

[1:09:38] to double the cost to make the changes within the system.

[1:09:43] » What's that? >> You'll have double the cost to make the

[1:09:46] change. be like charged and

[1:09:51] » but with a with60 days you said

[1:09:59] » yeah but with 160 days as soon as you go up you're going to have to vote on the

[1:10:04] next going up just to just to be where you need to because it's almost the six

[1:10:10] month 160 days you know I mean that's that's that's

[1:10:15] » that's four or you know

[1:10:22] » they should be on these bills that just okay because I didn't want it all to

[1:10:28] happen once at least that's

[1:10:35] » it's going to 160 days from now will be let's see

[1:10:42] » September

[1:10:46] » a few It' be around December, January, February,

[1:10:53] » about >> if if you did it right now, it wouldn't

[1:10:57] happen till January >> or February.

[1:11:00] » Yeah. It's going to have to come out

[1:11:06] » with with that kind of >> restaurant

[1:11:10] $600 >> with with that kind of uh with that kind

[1:11:16] of time. >> How much money is that?

[1:11:18] » So right now you're looking at January or February before anything would go if

[1:11:23] you voted on it today. So

[1:11:27] » and what do you pay right now for a base figure?

[1:11:30] I don't know. I'm assuming

[1:11:41] » so one thing

[1:11:51] the bigger meters are definitely need to.

[1:11:57] So Judy, you know, we talked about how much water loss we've got by now.

[1:12:03] Are we going to take that in consideration

[1:12:06] as far as >> this is only comparing water sold

[1:12:10] not water produced? >> Yes. This is only water what's actually

[1:12:14] gone. >> So what you're losing isn't factored

[1:12:16] into here. the uh >> this is just

[1:12:24] » this this is it's it's always what goes through the meter is is what we always

[1:12:29] use because everything else that that you have is is uh there's there's

[1:12:37] no way to tell it. But I will say this that if you have really old meters in

[1:12:42] this system that you're losing a lot of money right through there probably 15 to

[1:12:48] 25% just on the meters not reading

[1:12:53] correctly. >> They're not as accurate as they're old.

[1:12:56] They're not they don't meters are getting red.

[1:13:00] » Huh?

[1:13:04] » All of them are actually getting red. I mean if it's it's showing the base or

[1:13:08] you know like we've run in the situation before

[1:13:13] » but uh >> all of them that are on the list are

[1:13:16] getting >> we are finding that there are exist

[1:13:26] » at the plant are they is that one of these

[1:13:29] » because I think a lot of this that we're finding now would help our numbers where

[1:13:33] we wouldn't snap into as much >> it's not in guy took it out, but it was

[1:13:38] a huge >> was not in the water. You took it out of

[1:13:42] the water and everything. >> So,

[1:13:48] » yeah, it's it's not included.

[1:13:54] I just But >> this is with the assumption that the

[1:13:58] meters were reading accurately at various gallons of usage.

[1:14:05] Is there eight meters older? >> We have about 150 that are older.

[1:14:13] » When you say older, what? >> And a new meter just 58 is $38. So 150

[1:14:19] times the new [laughter]

[1:14:23] » if we replace if we replace our entire system with new meters, it is1

[1:14:29] million59. >> Here's the thing. All that sounds great.

[1:14:33] We're not even doing the minimum. We're not even bringing the minimum to even

[1:14:37] cover expenses, much less make improvements.

[1:14:40] » Yes. >> And this hurts. This is going to hurt

[1:14:42] some people and I don't know how we get around it. The reason it hurts sometimes

[1:14:46] previous councils have not done anything >> to keep up with

[1:14:53] or anything. As as I said, I I did put

[1:15:03] » We keep going like this. It's going to be

[1:15:07] one of those places. >> I hate to laugh, but

[1:15:12] » yeah.

[1:15:19] Yeah.

[1:15:26] It's underwater. It says base rate and that shows how much you have at each.

[1:15:33] Then it'll say waste water from sanitation.

[1:15:39] Trying to pull up mine.

[1:15:43] » The only reason I asked you that I was just curious if currently y'all were

[1:15:47] charging more for the bigger meters. maybe not this amount that we had up

[1:15:51] here, but if you were charging more or if everybody's base rate depict didn't

[1:15:55] matter the meter size or not was that original 29 or whatever it was.

[1:15:59] » Because then, [clears throat] you know, like I say, then that that person's bill

[1:16:02] is going to go up quite a bit. [clears throat]

[1:16:06] » Right. But a difference between

[1:16:10] 250 and 296 isn't. >> No, but I'm just saying if it is that

[1:16:14] $29, I mean the difference in $29 and 925 for that 4 inch compound there's a

[1:16:21] big difference

[1:16:26] $1,000. >> Yeah.

[1:16:30] We need to think about that too for like a commercial business. If they haven't

[1:16:34] have not been paying those bigger rates or the bigger

[1:16:38] meter size, >> tell them they got lucky.

[1:16:40] » Are they We haven't >> They've been getting free water this

[1:16:43] whole time. >> How much did

[1:16:49] they >> No, they definitely need to get the hit.

[1:16:52] I'm talking about like a restaurant. If their bill goes up a thousand a month,

[1:16:56] they may say, "I'm not saying >> I don't know."

[1:17:03] » So, right now, >> if he's only been paying $29

[1:17:09] » for a 2 in >> I don't know who's been charging.

[1:17:12] » That's what I was asking. Have they been charging more for the bigger meters or

[1:17:16] has the base rate been I would just assume that the base rate had been the

[1:17:20] same over the cross? No. Oh, so you do have an older

[1:17:25] » 135 wasn't been charging charges more. >> Okay. And so and and does that go up as

[1:17:30] it goes bigger? You're charging more stuff right now?

[1:17:32] » We don't have anything else. >> We don't have anything else.

[1:17:37] » Okay. So there's a chance that

[1:17:42] » Okay. [snorts] So then you'll have seven >> 11 customers below that. That would go

[1:17:48] up significantly. you know, go from 135 to 592 and then

[1:17:53] 135 to 925

[1:17:58] » your school. >> But if if you are

[1:18:10] » that we discovered in system, it's

[1:18:16] it's gallons per thousand. So, um,

[1:18:22] instead of taking two two and a half million and dividing it 5,000 and

[1:18:28] charging, you know, 2521, they divided the,000 off of the dollar

[1:18:33] amount. And so they were actually getting charged.

[1:18:37] Z86.

[1:18:41] So they were charging basically less like

[1:18:48] and we can't back billions eight. Well, well, we can I'm going to be bringing it

[1:18:52] to you saying their bill went from $7 or $800 a month to 15,000

[1:19:00] mistake corrected know y'all probably you know

[1:19:10] » should never be I'm saying even before this change

[1:19:18] » last 520

[1:19:23] water.

[1:19:29] » They should be in shel. I'm sure

[1:19:33] » they didn't know.

[1:19:36] » We didn't have anybody in the last several [snorts] offices up there that

[1:19:40] didn't realize that.

[1:19:45] [clears throat] >> Word.

[1:19:48] $14,000 a month >> for how long? Right.

[1:19:54] » That's just half what we just made. There was a problem as much on

[1:19:59] » the city main agreement was that paid >> in June of 24 about 20,000

[1:20:07] city was a lot more than that.

[1:20:11] That was weird.

[1:20:16] So >> we're not making decision decisions. We

[1:20:21] can't >> Yes.

[1:20:28] We can we can we

[1:20:34] » I'll be honest. I think be pissed. >> Yes. But again,

[1:20:40] everyone in this town knows that we they're going to look at it that it's

[1:20:44] being raised to fix the problems. They don't know this is just to

[1:20:50] get us where we should be. >> Break even.

[1:20:52] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:20:57] » Well, we have to raise

[1:21:03] at least do this first. This is the first step to fixing water. Not this

[1:21:08] year. >> You like,

[1:21:09] » but if we keep the rates, we will never fix anything.

[1:21:12] » Well, in a year, you would have 400500

[1:21:16] almost $600,000 between water and wastewater and reserves in Seattle.

[1:21:21] » So, that would not >> We could fix that.

[1:21:23] » You could fix stuff with >> Yeah. But on the timeline just I mean if

[1:21:28] it's truly 160 days you're already looking at if you vote on it tonight

[1:21:34] you're already looking at you're into January right so you wouldn't have to

[1:21:39] worry about it you were worried about hitting it during Christmas and stuff

[1:21:44] » and and so it would already be past that so

[1:21:49] » yeah we have to educate people about it just hits you have

[1:21:54] Yeah, >> it's a horrible marketing thing. We have

[1:21:58] to make sure we >> town hall do all that. We have to push

[1:22:02] this out there so they're not blindsided.

[1:22:05] » True.

[1:22:09] » Lastly about water.

[1:22:13] Well, they did. Yeah. >> They stood up and they said, "We're

[1:22:17] willing to pay for improvements to be made to this city that yes, raise, you

[1:22:21] know, pay the raise." That's what they said. The next time we had one, not

[1:22:27] anybody came. >> Yeah.

[1:22:29] » Um,

[1:22:32] I can't I can't think that the people that support this are going to come to

[1:22:36] the town meeting and say, "Yay, we support this." The only people that are

[1:22:38] going to come are the ones that >> come on a town hall. I'm just saying

[1:22:43] » they know better water, but they don't want to support the price increase to

[1:22:47] get to that point. >> You can't worry about no matter what we

[1:22:50] do.

[1:22:55] » We got to do what's right for the city.

[1:23:00] » That has to be done. We got to move forward.

[1:23:01] » Yes. >> And yes, I don't see that anything's

[1:23:05] changed on change your opinion of that. Um, I think at this point we just get on

[1:23:13] there and play with the numbers and see if 335 or you want 350 or you want 385

[1:23:18] or you know where you want it to land in the various uh

[1:23:23] » put that on the >> on the city Facebook page and let him

[1:23:28] share. >> Yes.

[1:23:32] exactly why we're doing whatever we're doing it for.

[1:23:37] » Range right here that says 335 to 385. >> I don't know whether y'all want me to

[1:23:43] populate that with 335 or that 385. So that's why we need

[1:23:52] 335

[1:23:57] » that's never the 385 gave you the lower base rate.

[1:24:04] » Okay. >> But producing the same amount of money.

[1:24:06] » Yeah. >> That's your options. That that's what

[1:24:09] she has

[1:24:13] » to the 335

[1:24:18] » almost not the last sheet but the first summary sheet you're going to see 37 and

[1:24:25] 33 on the wastewater 37 for the water and 33 on the wastewater and the blocks

[1:24:33] that go along with that on the last sheet that's that's in the little packet

[1:24:39] that I gave you, you're going to see that if you instead of being

[1:24:45] » Yeah. >> So at 35 monthly minimum 31 on the

[1:24:50] wastewater, but the price of water and wastewater has gone up. So these are the

[1:24:56] kind of differences that you're looking at.

[1:25:04] You have commercial

[1:25:08] there's no difference. It's just a matter of the meters.

[1:25:12] » When you get to industrial, it does change.

[1:25:17] Uh Mr. King's recommendations don't make don't differentiate for industrial

[1:25:23] versus residential. >> It doesn't really differentiate. it it

[1:25:27] goes by meter size solely and and that's what we've always used because that's

[1:25:33] what the public utility commission and PCQ always wanted to see. So when you

[1:25:40] look at

[1:25:43] you have the potential to be going down

[1:25:49] » I don't know what the industrial are but >> if you are using more than $40,000

[1:25:56] 40,000 gallons of water right now

[1:26:01] that's four times 8.6 six if you're outside the city limits and then it

[1:26:06] would be a 3 in 626 right now they're at 79 98 at the

[1:26:13] way that it's right now >> in the base

[1:26:17] » oh I'm saying the base rate which is a 3inch compound will be um 92 and if I

[1:26:24] use 40 inch

[1:26:26] » yeah we do >> okay I was with 4 inch

[1:26:31] » that would be industrial 4 I guess I thought that

[1:26:37] page outside city limit. Yeah. Sorry. >> And and I'll address this. Me and Julie

[1:26:46] have talked about it. >> The type of actually just because I

[1:26:49] looked at it today 860. Sorry about that. That 860 if you did times 4 that's

[1:26:57] 3440. And then plus your base of 522, it would actually be a less bill than it

[1:27:03] is right now. >> No,

[1:27:07] » but we even charging on that. >> We had even charging on that on the old

[1:27:12] rates.

[1:27:15] » Yes. I'm just trying to understand.

[1:27:19] » We're talking about here. >> Well, no, but we were charging dollar

[1:27:22] 135 because we didn't have anything well larger on here than 2 in.

[1:27:27] » I'm sorry. So we didn't have anything larger on here than a 2 inch. So 135 is

[1:27:31] what we've been charged for. >> Yes. As a current rate

[1:27:35] » that's going up. >> So it would go up, but it still wouldn't

[1:27:38] be. I mean, understand your point, but it still go up, right?

[1:27:45] » I thought the new base for was going up 135.

[1:27:50] paper. >> Well, I didn't

[1:27:54] mean >> what I'm looking at.

[1:27:57] » It's not they actually go up. They go up in size

[1:28:02] difference that you're earning in your >> potentially losing your gallon. When you

[1:28:07] go down to $3, when you go down to three, four, five,

[1:28:13] six, seven, eight, 35, then whatever it was, you're not going to be like that.

[1:28:34] city. Wolf City to Wolf City. I'm not doing this anymore.

[1:28:56] took over.

[1:29:12] » But we're only paying $8.

[1:29:17] 30. >> Oh, she went industrial

[1:29:21] here. >> So, right now it's the same thing.

[1:29:26] » So, what's the difference? The commercial and industrial show.

[1:29:30] » It's all the same.

[1:29:41] » I guess I'm not saying that we've ever charged a different rate for

[1:29:45] industrial.

[1:29:50] It's always been $8

[1:29:55] or industrial or commercial >> industrial industrial

[1:29:59] » industrial >> same page

[1:30:03] or your own >> page six outside city limits industrial.

[1:30:08] » Okay. Outside city lines is $41 $71 121 171 22388

[1:30:17] and 31835. >> Yes. And then 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. Yes. All

[1:30:22] y'all. Mhm. >> And we're going up on all of that.

[1:30:27] » Yeah. This year going up everything, including the price for 1,000 gallons. I

[1:30:34] will I will say this just so all of you know that if if you charge your outside

[1:30:42] the city customers more than you charge your inside the city customers they are

[1:30:49] the only people who can put you in front of a rate hearing.

[1:30:53] » Okay. >> If you charge if you charge exactly the

[1:30:56] same amount as your inside city customers they have no recourse. But a

[1:31:02] lot of cities they'll charge one and a half times or double the rates outside

[1:31:06] the city limits. They'll say, >> you know,

[1:31:09] » so all of our rates are the same on those.

[1:31:12] » Yeah. I'm just saying that >> I mean all of our rates are the same.

[1:31:15] The only thing that changes is the well the rate by me size, but they're

[1:31:20] getting charged by gallons the same amount all the way across the board.

[1:31:25] » It's just >> Yeah. But but even even at that even

[1:31:29] they could still and it only takes 10% of them. So if there's a hundred out

[1:31:34] there >> only 10 of them would have to sign a

[1:31:37] petition and then the PUC is going to say why does it cost you more money to

[1:31:42] get them water than inside the city limits

[1:31:47] outside? >> I've seen a lot do it. I've I've always

[1:31:52] suggested not to. >> They've gone over some of them,

[1:31:55] » but

[1:31:58] I I' most of them do and and I I've suggested to a lot of them not to just

[1:32:05] for that reason, especially when you're making a big increase like you are right

[1:32:10] now. >> Yeah, I can see where it being brought

[1:32:11] up. >> Yeah. So,

[1:32:16] » but if you have a if you have a pump station or something solely for those

[1:32:20] people on the outside that you're >> using that pump station and you wouldn't

[1:32:24] be using that pump station if you didn't have those out of city that is your

[1:32:27] justification. >> That could be your validation, your

[1:32:31] justification, >> but I I don't think you have that. So I

[1:32:35] I would if you had a special lift station on the waist side if you had

[1:32:41] » Okay. >> You know there there could be reasons

[1:32:44] why you could charge them more. Yes. But uh but you need to have something to

[1:32:49] back your back it up is what I'm trying to say. So

[1:32:57] » So what is what is the plan?

[1:33:05] continue with the YouTube thing. We're almost done.

[1:33:15] What are your thoughts on that? Mr. Tom

[1:33:24] think about more talking to

[1:33:29] how many how many years I've been allowing this to happen yet. And

[1:33:34] » probably soon for cornies, [laughter]

[1:33:36] » maybe they'll actually, you know, they'll

[1:33:39] » Well, one thing sticks my mind that little deal that you had the other night

[1:33:42] that they donated to that was a ball face.

[1:33:45] » Yep. >> Um,

[1:33:49] this is going We've got to do something. [snorts] We are in running in red. We've

[1:33:56] got a little less than a million dollars and this budget is $160 something,000

[1:34:06] that we're going to be in the red this year. And if you raise the taxes that

[1:34:11] much, my goodness. >> So, we're have to pull it out of out of

[1:34:15] our account. But it needs to be >> That's the one thing it does do. It it

[1:34:20] allows us to keep the rate of tax so much to cover that if we're going up on

[1:34:23] the rates in the water. Yes. >> Yeah.

[1:34:25] » So that that's a that's a positive thing to me.

[1:34:29] » Yeah. When we wrap this up to publish it make that point.

[1:34:34] » Um not only that, but you shouldn't you shouldn't have to use tax money to fund

[1:34:40] water and waste water. They should pay for themselves.

[1:34:44] » Water should fund water. Yes. For sure.

[1:34:48] » We see this all the time.

[1:34:54] You can't go, you can't stay in business >> if you don't raise your price. Look at

[1:34:58] McDonald's. I mean, you used to be able to get a dollar cheeseburger. That

[1:35:01] dollar cheeseburger is now a $2.19 cheeseburger.

[1:35:07] » Yeah.

[1:35:11] » It's homemade.

[1:35:14] » Well, I don't know if that's possible to do based on what we're told by

[1:35:23] Well, that's that's how long it takes them to get the I guess to

[1:35:28] get the sanitation done in what three months

[1:35:34] » they going to help anybody make any happier if we split up.

[1:35:43] » You're going to make them mad twice. >> You're going to make them mad twice.

[1:35:46] » Yes. >> Yeah. Like we went up. Oh We went

[1:35:48] up again. Yes. >> Or do you do it all at one time?

[1:35:52] » [clears throat] [laughter]

[1:36:00] » There's commercial owners here. >> You got commercial property.

[1:36:06] » You got it. I got it. We're all going to ad

[1:36:11] » You're going to hear complaints either way. Do you want to hear two sets of

[1:36:14] complaints or one? You know, and it's going to be the same people.

[1:36:19] » Yeah. Yeah, I mean >> probably

[1:36:28] these rates need to be

[1:36:34] » we don't have to go through this again and we can if we get grants and stuff in

[1:36:40] if there's some way that that price comes down we're going to bring the

[1:36:45] price down. >> Yes.

[1:36:48] Don't ever drop them once you get them up there. Don't ever go backwards,

[1:36:55] » right? That's what you hope for.

[1:37:08] » We can lower or not to be a regular policy to review this

[1:37:14] every year. Every year. Okay. >> Does it have to be at budget time?

[1:37:19] » No.

[1:37:28] » We do it early here. Then we're not adjusted for

[1:37:32] that time either. >> We should have dealt with it. So they

[1:37:37] could have it in the system. So we'll have it September the 1. You know what

[1:37:41] I'm saying? >> That's

[1:37:44] we start to go up on it now. that actually could lower the tax rate that

[1:37:47] we're currently talking about.

[1:37:51] » No, because we're taking that out of text. Well, you take it out of text.

[1:37:55] » You just have to review it or decide upon it before May of each year because

[1:37:58] then you're going into budget season and making your decisions there. So, if you

[1:38:03] had whatever rate you wanted established,

[1:38:06] » then you know what it's going to generate and project it forward.

[1:38:10] » January, winter months payments. 12 by that one. The last rate increased.

[1:38:22] » Yeah, but it was a it was a little one. I remember

[1:38:27] just the base rate. >> Yeah,

[1:38:30] » the base rate and then we brought that tier in there.

[1:38:36] » Right. Right. >> We stop losing giving away the 20. Yeah.

[1:38:42] » Yeah, that's right. >> 335. At 335, that's going to make

[1:38:50] basically the the base rate north $7. >> Yes. Yes.

[1:38:57] $7. The base rate goes up 733, I think. And then

[1:39:02] that's at 335. >> It goes from 29. What you're looking at

[1:39:09] » based on the number that 4342 that we looked at and we use an average of 5,000

[1:39:13] 56% of the population in this town is going to pay $30 more if we go $23

[1:39:21] » right off the bat that's going to go up 30 bucks.

[1:39:24] » Yes. >> So whatever bill was add 30 to it at 56%

[1:39:29] then the tiers below that 30 go. the if we take

[1:39:36] » you're using more than 5,000. Yes. >> Yeah.

[1:39:39] » If if we take 100% of the depreciation out, this is why I'm saying you're not

[1:39:45] really funding depreciation. It starts looking a lot like your rates right now.

[1:39:51] Okay. So, that I put a zero in there. >> And uh

[1:39:57] when I put it back, then it's where it needs to be.

[1:40:02] » Yeah. So I just [snorts] that's that's something that

[1:40:07] if if you don't fund it, you never have any money to do anything in

[1:40:13] » tax dollars to fix it. Right.

[1:40:18] » So, >> yeah. And that's

[1:40:22] » Yeah, we've been

[1:40:25] spoke to them money to have another whale somewhere

[1:40:30] and be putting more water meters out all over the place.

[1:40:39] » You all know where I stand. >> You know where I stand. [laughter]

[1:40:43] » I'm not sure I do. Scott, you can tell me. Yeah.

[1:40:46] » Well, there's two positives there. One, if we get the money and we're able to

[1:40:50] fix stuff for after the the year, I think it's a great

[1:40:54] thing. They're going to but

[1:40:59] explain right amount of money to actually start

[1:41:05] improving things that I think it'll all be better off.

[1:41:09] » Yeah. >> And the other positive thing,

[1:41:11] » the ranks won't go up till the nonprofit council

[1:41:16] » [laughter]

[1:41:18] » They won't be calling everybody. >> You'll still number

[1:41:25] one. >> Don't give me your number. [laughter]

[1:41:31] » I don't care how much money we have. It's not going to completely fix the

[1:41:34] brown water. It's always going to be there. So,

[1:41:37] » you'll have to replace taps and that's >> No, no, I get that. But still that I

[1:41:40] don't I don't we're still going to have brown water

[1:41:45] every now and then. >> Well, everybody even you break a p

[1:41:49] you're going to have brown water. >> So in other words, they're going to

[1:41:52] those same people that complain >> about the going to complain about it

[1:41:56] going up and then complain

[1:42:01] » which we all know. And unfortunately around East Texas you have what's called

[1:42:07] tannins and it comes from oak leaves. You have tannins in the water. others.

[1:42:12] » And and there's it's just one of those things that yes, it it does stain the

[1:42:18] water and when you put the chlorine in it, it actually cleans it up, but when

[1:42:23] you change the chemistry in the hot water heater and things like that, then

[1:42:29] that tannins will fall out in their hot water heaters and most of it is going to

[1:42:34] be in their hot water heater. They need to hook a hose up on the bottom of their

[1:42:38] hot water heater and drain their, you know, every now and again.

[1:42:45] » Hey, I have to do it at my house because I got iron. You know, it's red water.

[1:42:54] » Yeah.

[1:42:57] Tell them to flush more often if it's brown in the

[1:43:01] [laughter]

[1:43:05] » defining.

[1:43:15] I just got out of the shower and all that one night. They said your 10 out of

[1:43:21] the water was off. >> Yeah. 10 water breaks in the last week.

[1:43:30] » Everybody's seeing it. That's Yeah, that's a good old ground.

[1:43:34] » So dry. We got all that rain and then it got dry.

[1:43:46] » I mean,

[1:43:49] you know, that's kind of where I located. Did we have a questions

[1:43:54] for I don't think so. This was so helpful,

[1:43:56] » Mr. Paul. This is so helpful. >> Yeah,

[1:43:58] » it's not an easy pill to the uh >> he's very he's very helpful in how I

[1:44:05] mean it makes sense to me. >> It makes sense to me now.

[1:44:08] » Uh why we got to do this, >> right? I it's it's important and and

[1:44:15] that's why I always stress doing water rates uh when I was a circuit writer

[1:44:20] because I thought it was the best thing that I could do for water systems to get

[1:44:26] them to where they needed to be, you know, making the amount of money they

[1:44:30] needed to be so they can do projects on their own instead of having to go beg

[1:44:35] for money or whatever, you know, and and or having to take out loans, you know, I

[1:44:41] would rather put $200,000 worth of CIP in there instead

[1:44:47] of them having to pay back a huge note to on a loan that they got to pay for

[1:44:53] for 40 years at, you know, 4% interest or six or whatever it is. So,

[1:45:02] » yeah.

[1:45:15] » Here, you sleep, >> right?

[1:45:20] » I don't want to pay the money, but you know what choice do you have,

[1:45:24] » right? Yeah. >> So, you know,

[1:45:26] » you enjoy being able to turn your faucet on and that water coming out. I just

[1:45:29] like got

[1:45:35] » here to get your feet wet. We had two well count. We had three people run for

[1:45:39] three spots on the counter. >> Far I'm concerned. If you don't get

[1:45:43] involved, shut your mouth. >> Agree.

[1:45:45] » All right. >> Yeah.

[1:45:47] » Way I looked at it really

[1:45:55] long ways and uh So so appreciative of you, Paul. Yeah.

[1:46:01] » You're welcome. >> You didn't have to come tonight, but we

[1:46:05] needed we needed this. We needed you here.

[1:46:11] » Won't let it go to the wayside like >> good.

[1:46:15] » We did this tonight. This has been recorded tonight,

[1:46:19] » right? and the citizens can view this uh and hopefully we can uh I mean this

[1:46:31] is good very good information >> right

[1:46:33] » and understand what where we're coming from we don't want to raise the rates

[1:46:39] but there is no choice at this >> no

[1:46:42] » and so

[1:46:46] um how far you come here >> uh this side Mac and Oasis actually.

[1:46:51] » Yeah. >> And we're about to

[1:46:52] » I live in Celeste. So, not too too far. >> Yeah. So,

[1:46:56] » in Celeste, just north of Greenville. >> Okay.

[1:46:59] » Only about an hour. >> This is Yeah.

[1:47:03] » 15. Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:47:06] » We cover a lot of area. This is not for me. I go to Amarillo. I go

[1:47:11] » Yeah. And and before >> if y'all don't have any other questions,

[1:47:17] Sunday men go. And thank you. We >> we can rrestle the rest of this stuff

[1:47:25] out. Thank you so much. >> Well, they I thought we were going to

[1:47:29] have to go back to old school to tell you that I didn't think we were gonna

[1:47:34] » I don't know if I do. But you have my part as well since Paul is gonna be

[1:47:40] going. He's switched over here. So if you have any more questions about

[1:47:44] it more

[1:48:11] she's technically a registered voter here yet.

August 27th Water & Wastewater Rate Study Workshop, Special Called Meeting, and Tax Rate Workshop

Transcript