[2:50] Anderson. Brad Conzbrick. Huntly. Yes. Yes. Rowan. Yes. Hoffman. Yes. Fong. Yes.

[3:00] You have a quorum. Thank you. Would everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance?

[3:29] Do I have an motion to adopt tonight's agenda?

[3:33] I'll make motion. Pardon? I'll make a motion to adopt tonight's agenda.

[3:37] Moved by Conzbrick. Seconded by Fong.

[3:42] All in favor say aye.

[3:43] The post-like sign, motion passes, public notice, notice was published in the Hastings tribute on January 17th, 2025.

[3:58] Pursuant to state law, the materials we're going to be looking at are available for the public's inspection at the end of the room.

[4:08] There's also a copy of the Nebraska Opens Meeting Act posted.

[4:14] I've got a couple items here, if anyone would like to talk to us about them from the audience, please step forward.

[4:23] Only agenda items,

[4:27] no one wants to talk about gas or a comp planned at night.

[4:31] I got a laugh out of that though.

[4:34] I guess the first thing on the agenda,

[4:38] we're going to talk about a little carbon, Marty.

[4:41] I believe this is your baby.

[4:43] Yes, it is.

[4:45] Browning limmers with new carbons going to give a presentation here, just can't give an update of where we're at with that.

[4:51] There's still a lot of work that needs to be done, but with the new council we figured this was a good time to just kind of bring the air back to speed.

[4:58] So we'll do Brian and Liam give you his presentation.

[5:06] Just for from Realities, if you'd state your name for the record and all that.

[5:10] The other thing is, is council, if you have questions, feel free to chime in and ask them, you know, be kind to them when you enter into.

[5:20] Thanks, Marty.

[5:21] I'm Brian Lammer's with New Carbon, do you need me to spell my name, or is that okay?

[5:27] Okay,

[5:30] so New Carbon is a Midwest-based company or based in Chicago, Illinois.

[5:34] I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

[5:36] But our reason for being is to reduce the lifecycle carbon intensity of our customers' operations

[5:43] and our customers' our ag and industrial producers throughout the Midwest.

[5:50] And what I'd like to talk to you about tonight is a project we're working on with the City

[5:55] of Hastings.

[5:56] New carbon is proposing to build, essentially, develop on and operate a landfill gas collection

[6:04] action system and a gas treatment system adjacent to on and adjacent to the City of Hastings municipal landfill.

[6:13] The landfill just by nature of what it does produces methane and what we plan to do is collect the methane, treat it essentially converted into pipeline quality natural gas and then inject that natural gas into the interstate pipeline system and sell that gas in the market.

[6:34] So essentially we're planning to continue our preliminary engineering efforts over the

[6:42] next year.

[6:43] We're working with the City of Hastings on a feedstock and site use agreement.

[6:48] Our goal is to start permitting complete the engineering and design in 2026 and use 2026

[6:56] and 2027 to complete development, including permitting our project, starting construction

[7:03] in late 2027 and then bringing the project into commercial operation in a 2029 timeframe.

[7:10] Essentially, when we're done, we'll be producing about 105,000 MMBTU of gas per year.

[7:20] That's essentially enough gas for about 2,000 average consumption of about 2,000 homes.

[7:29] Just in terms of where our operations kind of dovetails with the city of Hastings, the city

[7:36] obviously operates the landfill.

[7:39] We plan to install horizontal and vertical wells on the landfill property to collect

[7:47] the biogas.

[7:48] And then just north and east and I'll show a plan view on the next slide.

[7:53] And we're going to build a biogas upgrading system, which is essentially, we use membranes

[8:00] to filter the impurities out of the gas.

[8:03] And then we will interconnect with the tall-grass system, tall-grass energy system, which

[8:07] is about a mile and a half to the northwest of the site.

[8:10] And as you can see here, our biogas upgrading system will be just north of the landfill

[8:17] along southern Hills Road to the west.

[8:19] And then we'll run a lateral interconnection up to the tall grass system, which is north

[8:26] and west of the site.

[8:30] I think that's really what I wanted to share with you tonight, just in terms of Saturday

[8:33] Sunday.

[8:35] Marty, is there anything else that you'd like me to talk about?

[8:39] Yeah, I would like to point out is that what we have initially thought about is we thought

[8:43] about putting them in the south east corner of that property that we purchased.

[8:47] But looking at some options we have about reusing the existing landfill sell it's there by putting an overlay over it.

[8:58] It really made sense for us to move them closer to the road over there.

[9:02] So that's just one minor thing, but that's really a win-win for all of us because it's easier for them to build.

[9:07] Plus, now we're able to recover more air space that we would have lost if we left them over on that corner.

[9:12] But that was just a very preliminary design.

[9:16] So as he seems to go in, there's a lot of details,

[9:18] a lot of flesh and all, you know, sometimes have to modify

[9:22] as we go as we learn more here.

[9:24] But pretty comfortable that they're going

[9:27] to be over there in long seven days

[9:29] or that seems like the final place for them.

[9:35] I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

[9:38] Down the road, as the landfill fills up more, are there projections then that you'll get more gas?

[9:47] Yep, we anticipate based on the waste in place, which is the term we use in the growth that the gas volume will increase over time.

[9:57] Probably at about a two or three percent.

[10:01] Just curious, what other communities are you working in or what other communities are you supporting in this endeavor?

[10:08] term. Well, we're very active in the state of Illinois. We're working with some utilities

[10:14] on wastewater gas projects. We're looking at a couple other projects in North Dakota

[10:22] and Minnesota. Our footprint essentially is the upper Midwest and Midwest in the United

[10:27] States.

[10:30] You had talked about putting wells down into the actual matter. How do you collect that?

[10:37] do you, I'm trying to use very much my kind of layman terms.

[10:44] You just put a big tarp over the thing with a hole in the middle,

[10:47] and you just suck it out like that.

[10:49] How do you get that gas from this huge expansive area into your pipes?

[10:55] Yeah, well there's multiple, it's typically PVC pipe,

[10:58] and there's multiple points of injection and lateral points.

[11:02] So you're trying to get kind of a representative

[11:04] or cover the entire area so it's not necessarily a hot spot and a cold spot so to speak you're trying to have good coverage over the entire landfill.

[11:13] Okay, and I'm assuming because people can smell a landfill that this ought to also make the smell not so strong.

[11:28] Would that be a true assessment?

[11:30] Yeah, I think there are definitely some odor mitigation benefits from this project as well

[11:37] Brian and Maggie when Mark Stark and you might want to watch out he gets to fly in there with his hands

[11:45] Question Derek will the city be able to buy gas from new gas here?

[11:50] So we had conversations with Brian and Omar and Philip and we had some discussions there and the utilities is working with the

[11:56] of the city landfill for what we can facilitate.

[11:59] My understanding for the economics,

[12:01] it's important for them to get it back into the interstate pipeline.

[12:05] We've had conversations also on the potential of down the road,

[12:08] maybe looking at our pollution control facility,

[12:10] some of the sewer there.

[12:11] So excited with the opportunities this could bring,

[12:14] but for this particular project,

[12:16] I think that gas will go back into the interstate pipeline.

[12:20] Does this require local financing,

[12:22] or is this all the project on your own?

[12:25] So we will own and operate the gas collection and the upgrading and the interconnection.

[12:31] So we'll finance that aspect.

[12:35] I'm just curious to know if you are prepared or if you know I'm sure you do.

[12:40] The risk factors of having this type of a filtration system or whatever you call it where safety risks as far as leaks or pipeline problems or whatever, what if any there may be.

[12:53] Yeah, what we plan to follow the safety protocol for pipeline interconnect, we'll have an emergency flare that will be part of the design, and that's essentially in case for some reason we're not able to inject into the pipeline, there'll be a place for the gas to go and be flare, but we'll have to permit the project through the State Department of Energy and Environment.

[13:20] This type of process has been used, though, for several years.

[13:24] I think they use it down in South Carolina by Greensburg to power the BMW plant.

[13:29] If I'm familiar.

[13:30] It's been common over the last, say, 10 to 15 years to essentially collect the landfill gas and

[13:35] then use it to power a turbine, burn the gas for electricity.

[13:40] With the way the markets change now, there's actually more value in selling the gas and

[13:44] there isn't using the gas to create, to generate power.

[13:48] But are you working with other landfills in the area also who are just hastings?

[13:51] Just hastings right now in the breast.

[13:57] Can I ask why you would pick us?

[13:59] That's a great question.

[14:00] Well, a few things.

[14:02] One, we looked at hastings for a number of reasons.

[14:05] One, there's a lot of ag processing, ag feedlot, and other ag buy products that are also feed

[14:13] stocks for our business.

[14:14] So we began conversations with other producers, and we met with Marty fairly quickly and determined that the landfills and the cities forward thinking and anticipating their growth.

[14:28] And there was a need there to anticipate the expansion, and there was a need on our end to or desire to collect the gas and produce natural gas here.

[14:42] So it was a good fit just in terms of geographically.

[14:45] There's also logistically, we're very close to that tall grass interstate pipeline,

[14:50] and so that's another benefit of Hastings.

[14:53] And this is a particular location.

[14:56] Yeah, no, I might add, is that they were talking about running, I think, at nine.

[15:00] My pipeline to get to tall grass, it's like, that's a lot of money that you put in the ground. So the fact that we, you know, have it so close, that just makes it a lot more efficient for those folks and, you know, make it a viable project. So it's all about money. I mean, if they can't do it, let's say it makes money. And then we saved the cost of having the deal with methane down the road.

[15:26] So what you're saying is there's virtually no cost to the city for this project.

[15:30] No, and in fact, our goal is to essentially share some of the upside of the projects in terms of a royalty or a lease payment back to the city.

[15:41] So what about the other two older existing landfills?

[15:46] Can those be utilized as well?

[15:49] Are you talking about landfills here in the city?

[15:51] Yeah, yeah.

[15:52] The one is on the east side.

[15:54] I go ahead and understand.

[15:55] And I assume you're talking about the south landfills in Northland.

[15:57] Yeah.

[15:58] Yeah.

[15:58] Yeah, they've gotten old enough now and we've done some testing after the methane is actually

[16:02] going down very quickly.

[16:04] There's no enough gas there to recover that.

[16:07] So if you leave a landfill long enough, it'll stop producing methane because you've used

[16:12] up all the carbon that's in there.

[16:15] In fact, that's one of the things that we are dealing with on Southland fillers.

[16:19] There's still some TCE leaking out and we're short of carbon.

[16:22] So that's why we're doing the phytocap is to try to get more carbon back in the soil so

[16:27] so that we can get some methane, but balance in that so we don't have that TCE that we're dealing with, so it's a good news, bad news type thing, but I think we're getting there, we've seen a significant reduction of TCE, and we just need to keep moving forward trying to improve that landfill cap a little bit longer, so it makes for good dog park when you got a good grass growing, so.

[16:50] So does compost like from grass does that contribute to methane?

[16:56] Yes, it does and in Nebraska there is one of the landfills that they actually actively take it.

[17:03] And the reason we don't take it is because if you did take it,

[17:07] you had to put in methane control when you were building these.

[17:12] And so it was easier to say no, we're not going to take it.

[17:14] and then leave that up to Woodwards and others

[17:17] that would take it and then they compost it.

[17:20] And then they sell it.

[17:22] We did talk with them about maybe coming back,

[17:24] but they make some good money on that,

[17:26] so we don't see that coming back into the city of Hastings.

[17:34] Questions on timeline,

[17:36] expectations, ribbon cuttings,

[17:38] life of the project, what are your expectations for this

[17:41] to go off and then how long are we gonna be capturing

[17:44] Is that focused solely on the current space or square footage that we have over there, or is it to grow with the growth of our landfill?

[17:54] Yeah, we're focusing on the current footprint right now.

[17:59] Anticipate started construction in the 2027 time frame coming online in 2029 for its gas in 2029.

[18:06] Typically, these projects have a 20 to 25 year useful life.

[18:12] And, you know, we anticipate that we'll enter into agreement with both the city for the feedstock as well as downstream customers for that term as well.

[18:23] The original sale out there to the northeast, is it still viable for this production?

[18:29] Yeah, why do you want to talk about that?

[18:32] Yes it is. And we've been monitoring and it's probably the early, it's got some of the higher levels of methane because of the way it was constructed.

[18:40] So, yeah, very much looking at that area first.

[18:50] Thank you very much.

[18:52] That was it.

[18:59] No further questions?

[19:05] Thank you.

[19:07] No more questions from Council?

[19:09] Okay.

[19:10] The comprehensive plan, Chad, that's all yours.

[19:14] Good evening.

[19:14] Thank you, Mayor.

[19:15] Good evening, Council.

[19:16] Chad Bunger, Director, Development Services.

[19:20] Have with me actually Mason's going around the show.

[19:23] So, have with me tonight, Mason Herman from Marvel Planning Consultants.

[19:29] They've been our planning consultant team helping us finish this project.

[19:35] It was started before I came to the city, and so happy to round it up and get it done.

[19:42] We had a number of meetings last fall, September with the Planning Commission, and an open house.

[19:49] And with the election cycle that occurred in November, we decided to pause and let that

[20:00] process go through so we knew who or how we needed to proceed.

[20:05] So we're here tonight to provide an overview of the plan.

[20:11] As a work session, see what questions and issues you may have and if all goes well, we would

[20:17] I'd like to move forward with adoption, but first, the work session, I do want to appreciate the partnership with Marvin Planning Consultants and them guiding this project, creating the draft with us and getting us to this point.

[20:32] So I'll turn it over to Mason for the most part.

[20:35] Let me know if you need anything.

[20:37] Okay. Thanks, Chad. Again, Mason Harmon with Marvin Planning Consultants.

[20:42] We've been coming here to these meetings, working on this plan, I'd say, you know, coming up on year three.

[20:49] So I want to say thank you to Chad. He's been fantastic to work with Lee as well, all the other city staff over this time period.

[20:57] I mean, Chad is really good at what he does, so I appreciate him helping walk us through, making this right for him.

[21:05] So we'll just do a little brief walk-through of kind of where the plan's at.

[21:11] I'm here to answer questions or take stuff back to our office to keep working on stuff.

[21:17] Chad advised we don't go through this page by page, which, you know, if you wanted to go

[21:21] through 200 pages we could have, but we won't.

[21:26] So just a little brief overview, again, the purpose of the plan, kind of some of the most

[21:33] important parts of this.

[21:34] It provides a picture in time, so when you guys come back and you're refreshing this plan and you're making goals,

[21:41] you're making actions, you're moving forward in the future, you can come back to this moment when this plan was written,

[21:47] you can see what people thought, you can look at the demographics, the facilities,

[21:51] everything that the city presents at that time, and then move forward from there.

[21:55] So you always have a basis to return to.

[21:59] are firm along with Chad and over the time period we analyzed a lot of things.

[22:04] I mean demographics, existing land use especially I'll get into that later when we're talking about future land use.

[22:11] I mean we kind of went through just about everything under the umbrella with the city.

[22:17] The third bold point I really want to point out in a previous life I wrote grant applications for the state.

[22:22] And if you want to get funded, you need a recent updated comprehensive plan.

[22:29] So that's another really important part for this.

[22:33] I don't really want to say much about it, but I know that the state will turn away cities that apply for grant funding if you don't have an up to date document.

[22:41] So that's a really important piece.

[22:43] How long does this count paying good?

[22:49] And what can so in how often you guys need to update it or

[22:53] how often do we have to update it so we get state funding?

[22:56] Yeah, I was told always around five years, but Chad, the city, you guys will update it as you feel.

[23:04] So I don't know specifically what any of the state departments require.

[23:11] My intention is we would do a full blown update every five years.

[23:16] with the idea that Hastings is growing, changing, having issues that we need to address often.

[23:26] And then in the interim, our staff will provide you first of every year an update of a variety of topics.

[23:33] Demographics, land use, project updates, those kind of things.

[23:37] So we can keep on top of it.

[23:40] And then if something big were to happen, say you're three, we get a huge influx of people

[23:46] or a new economic development opportunity, whatever that may be, we can always come in

[23:50] and say, hey, we need to update this one way or another.

[23:53] But yeah, my word will do it annually, an annual update.

[23:57] And then we should be planning every five years to do a full blow.

[24:01] The annual update, though, that would be done in-house.

[24:03] In-house, you bet you.

[24:04] Yeah.

[24:05] The five-year update, we would most likely go out and see consultant teams help to do that,

[24:11] but the annual one would be staff.

[24:17] Last point on this, so like I said, this provides a picture in time.

[24:21] It gives you a reasonable basis to make decisions.

[24:25] So we wanted to, this gives you a baseline for making those decisions on the future.

[24:30] This plan is going to work in conjunction with other city policies.

[24:34] So housing, obviously really important over the past few years and actually at the beginning

[24:41] of this year I believe Chad in January the city adopted an affordable housing plan in accordance

[24:46] with state guidelines. We've also adopted housing need study so the confidence of plan works

[24:54] with your housing policies. It works with annexation policies the Chad's going to get into in a

[24:58] little bit and then it will work with your zoning regulations so those have not been written yet

[25:05] Chad and his team are going to be writing those in accordance with this plan so those all work

[25:09] in Pataco. All the policies the city has working with this document too. So a future

[25:18] land use I'm going to touch on a little bit. Maybe one of the most important things in

[25:21] this plan. How the city is going to grow. We have lots of goals and policies, action

[25:27] items on how the city will grow. A couple things we want to point out. And again, Chad has

[25:33] a lot of experience in this with housing. We want to allow for more density and residential

[25:38] mental areas. So that's the whole concept of missing middle and I think you might be able

[25:42] to explain this a little better. This plan, a part of it is working to provide more

[25:48] access for people for housing, all housing types. I don't need to tell you how expensive

[25:55] housing is and how hard it is to get housing. We want to make that easier in the city, so

[26:00] that's part of this plan. Another thing is this plan is a little different from previous

[26:06] We do project expansive growth, it doesn't mean it's going to happen, but we want the city to be prepared to grow, to change in ways that maybe hasn't happened in the past.

[26:17] It doesn't have to happen, but we want to give you guys the ability to do so and Chad and his team the ability to work on that.

[26:26] I'm not going to get into everything on this map.

[26:28] I think the important things to point out, again with housing, we're giving Chad and his team five different levels of housing density to work with throughout the city, kind of going from least dense outside the city limits to more dense as you move in words.

[26:47] I believe three different kinds of commercial land use districts to work with general along the highway and then downtown.

[26:56] and then we do plan for public use parks and decorations so that stuff can be

[27:00] continued into the future.

[27:03] Again you look at this and you know north west of

[27:08] where we're at and there's farm ground and you know we say hey this could

[27:12] become residential land in the future. It doesn't mean it will it's just giving

[27:16] the city the ability to say hey if we were to grow that way this is the kind of

[27:20] housing that would be out there.

[27:25] I'm gonna turn this over to Chad to talk about

[27:27] annexation, he's been working on this really diligently for quite some time to work with

[27:33] this plan.

[27:34] And then if there are any questions at the end, I'm here to answer anything the best I

[27:38] can.

[27:39] So I'll hit this real quick, annexation, the policies on when and how to annex is guided

[27:50] by state statutes.

[27:51] It's also a part or should be an element of a good comprehensive plan.

[27:57] We also have some codes relating to it oddly enough and I'm pretty sure it's a hazing thing original for new planning directors, but every two years, the city has to review areas that it should annex and then bring to the council.

[28:12] We went through that last year.

[28:15] And it dawned on me that we don't have a great policy on directing staff and letting the residents on the edge of the community know when they should anticipate being annexed.

[28:30] It's fully up to the council of what should be annexed and when, but at least this policy was drafted to give that understanding from folks and the council.

[28:42] and everybody involved in just when annexation could occur.

[28:46] There are a couple of exceptions we can't go out and annex a mile away.

[28:51] Ask me generally adjacent to city limits.

[28:55] We can't annex egg land that's rule and character.

[29:00] There is some case law that if you are immediately next city limits, that probably doesn't rise to that agricultural character.

[29:09] but that is one, and then county designated industrial areas are areas that are prohibited

[29:15] from annexing a list of county D, designates it or the owners agree to it.

[29:21] So one area in particular is the industrial area along Highway 6 east, kind of around

[29:29] the Shilbo intersection, that was, excuse me, that was designated by the county in the 70s

[29:36] with no no clauses of allowing the city to annex it so unless state statute

[29:44] change those owners agree they should be annexed or the county decides they

[29:48] don't want that area as a industrial designated designated industrial area

[29:54] the city can't annex it even if we grew up completely around it so on to the

[30:00] Also, Mason, if you wouldn't mind hitting the next, please. The idea here is to just let folks know when they could be annexed and some policy direction for staff and planning commission and the council of when we should be annexing. So, sir, yes. What you're showing us now is the hazing thing that we spoke about. They spoke about earlier. Yeah. That was a rough, you know, smacking the face.

[30:29] We've got to figure something out here.

[30:31] So what we've come up with now is this policy about it to do this so that we don't.

[30:36] So we actually can do things in a relatively orderly and understanding fashion.

[30:41] Exactly.

[30:42] And that's simply what you're explaining to us.

[30:45] Yes, I'm trying to, I was going to find, so this is a, it starts on page 111.

[30:52] If you wanted to read along or follow up and get yourself a good night's sleep later.

[30:59] So, you know, in areas where there's an equity issue for taxpayers, meaning that it's

[31:08] evident that they are using all the city services, going to the swimming pools, using the

[31:13] libraries, all sewer and water connections, roads, all those kind of things, but not in

[31:18] the city, not paying city taxes.

[31:21] That may be a reason to consider that annexing.

[31:24] where there's needs to be a clear demarcation of service areas, so a good example is an area we did not annex last go around off of 26 where some areas where annex some weren't some were getting services some didn't where it could cause confusion for utilities, fire department for response those sort of things that maybe a case where we should consider annexing it.

[31:55] areas where the city needs to grow efficiently and orderly.

[31:59] So let's say subdivision is behind someone's property, small acreage, if you will.

[32:10] They want to develop, but that acreage is in the way.

[32:13] That may be a reason that the city considers annexing that acreage so that a larger development

[32:18] can also come into the city and help the city grow.

[32:20] is again, a consideration.

[32:24] Like last time you said, fill in the donor holes.

[32:27] Yes, filling in the donor holes might be another case.

[32:29] Yep, and we should be annexing properties

[32:34] when they are adjacent to the city limits

[32:37] and receiving or want to receive city utilities.

[32:41] I think that's important, them being in the city.

[32:44] Derek probably will disagree to me with me

[32:46] because I'm sure they get out of service fees

[32:49] and it's better for the bottom line, but really if they're getting city utilities, water sewer, to me and

[32:56] per this draft of the ordinance, or excuse me, draft of the policy, they should be brought in the city first.

[33:03] And that anytime someone wants to develop to an urban scale, meaning curb streets, dense neighborhoods,

[33:10] something bigger than acreages, we should be considering annexing them when they're adjacent to city properties.

[33:17] So that's the policy, again, it's always up to the council of when's the property should be annexed or not

[33:24] But it's really just hopefully

[33:27] Some guide posts on when we should look at it. So

[33:31] So how far outside the city limits do you need to build to avoid being annexed within the next

[33:37] 50 years

[33:39] That I can't tell you unfortunately

[33:42] We can only annex things that are adjacent to city limits or give or take 500 feet I think is kind of the standard.

[33:52] But that's really largely dependent upon how far we grow out.

[33:57] There are a couple of buffers right now in terms of like having to follow city rules for the extraterritorial jurisdiction.

[34:06] So zoning subdivision regulations, it's generally speaking a two mile ring around the city until you get to the Clay Center County line or until you bump up to Junietta's one mile boundary.

[34:22] So, but if we grow in the next 50 years, this plan for the next 10 years at least is not anticipating wild growth.

[34:34] I don't want wild growth, but who knows what happens in 50 years?

[34:39] That's just the crystal ball, I don't own the crystal ball for two weeks.

[34:44] But-

[34:45] Can you still use a quarter annexation?

[34:49] I don't know if you haven't answered to that, I'm not familiar with it.

[34:52] So if York used it to catch the area down by the interstate, the annex, the road from York down, can you still do that?

[35:00] I wish I could give you a good answer.

[35:02] I would tell you something and would be confident, so but we can definitely get that to chat.

[35:07] We can get that out for free.

[35:08] Absolutely.

[35:08] I thought I saw Jesse shaking his head.

[35:11] I'm unsure on that I'd have to look and do it.

[35:13] I don't know if that's not my head, that answer.

[35:17] So the question is could we, I'm going to make up a wild scenario, but someone wants to build a cool development on their land, but it's a mile outside of the city limits.

[35:31] and we would annex the right away of a road to get to that mile.

[35:37] I would say it should be generally discouraged but I don't know the technical requirement just because

[35:42] that means we got to maintain that mile a roadway and nothing else is on it and have to figure out

[35:49] when people then develop and connect to that roadway what how do we equitably address that.

[35:55] So it wouldn't be my recommendation, I'm not going to say no because I never try to say no and we'll get you the legal requirement, but

[36:03] Wouldn't be a big fan of that for a variety of reasons.

[36:06] Yeah, Keith Marvin in our principal of our office is a sick person and loves annexation law

[36:11] So we can get you the answer this week. So yeah, I have a question real quick just to try and follow you here

[36:19] You mentioned the two-mile radius or so around the city, and you also refer to

[36:27] Property that is adjacent to the city that should be annex. So what are we talking about?

[36:33] Everything within that two miles or outside of that two-mile radius. So this policy would be just land

[36:40] adjacent to the city limits that we that you

[36:46] Decide to bring into the city limits

[36:50] and have them part of it, growing our city limits.

[36:54] State Statues allows us also to create an ordinance and we have in the past that creates that two mile extra territorial jurisdiction, that two mile loop around the city.

[37:06] The intention with that is to make sure that development that occurs a stone throws away from the city limits that can't be annexed.

[37:18] You know, within that two-mile area, still follows most of our rules and regulations so that if we ever grow out to them that they are conforming with our building codes, they've gone through a plating process, they have adequate utility connections, those kind of things as we grow to them or that area grows to us as a city.

[37:41] So, one of my former jobs we did not have that buffer and it was kind of a train wreck when that city grew out and then near dealing with homes that that work built to a building code or businesses that were not built to a building code and trying to connect utilities to them or just knowing if they're safe for the fire department police department, those kind of things it was a struggle and so it's a nice feature to have here.

[38:12] Was it corridor annexation that brought in Westbrook?

[38:17] Yeah, I think it was.

[38:19] That is the example of that using a highway or roadway to annex out.

[38:24] And so it's been done in the past year.

[38:26] I just don't know if state statutes or anything has changed.

[38:30] Is there an annex over, was that platted in as an addition to the annex?

[38:34] It's annexed, yes.

[38:36] And I know there's issues that believe the city had some legal challenges to that with

[38:42] getting houses and everything.

[38:43] I don't know all the specifics of it, but I know as a challenge getting less broken

[38:48] annexed.

[38:54] Beyond the policy, I just rattled off.

[38:57] Is there any questions about the comp plan?

[38:59] The biggest chapter to me or two is the land use section.

[39:05] So the section that relates to this map is a huge chapter that you'll see often when

[39:12] it comes to rezoning.

[39:14] Do you have a page number?

[39:15] What's that?

[39:15] That page number, I can get it, or try to get it.

[39:19] I've got to pull it up, it starts on.

[39:22] 85, 85.

[39:23] Page 85, I believe.

[39:25] Thank you.

[39:28] So that section is often referred to in processes you'll see from our office, or the community redevelopment authority.

[39:38] So important chapter there, as Mason mentioned.

[39:43] And we, compared to the 2009 plan,

[39:50] we bumped up quite a bit of residential density.

[39:54] I think we had a cap of, it wasn't very much.

[39:58] Do you remember, even though high density,

[40:01] it was only, and it's all spelled out in generally,

[40:05] what that land use looks like, so types of buildings,

[40:08] but then also densities per acre and those kind of things.

[40:11] And it wasn't very dense.

[40:12] And so just to be able to help respond to affordable housing, we've really bumped up those densities across the board.

[40:23] Not that this will drive anybody to have to put a high rise on their property or apartment complex next door to them, where it's not appropriate.

[40:32] But if we want to have affordable housing, we just have to use our land more efficient.

[40:39] We have to use our infrastructure more efficiently.

[40:41] And one policy way to do that is by allowing more density, allowing more houses per acre,

[40:49] meaning some relatively smaller lots, or relatively speaking larger apartment complexes,

[40:57] so we can get more bang for a buck from our land.

[41:00] Would that require some changes in the zoning laws?

[41:03] It will, awesome.

[41:04] Yep, that's working on those now in a variety of ways, and yeah, that's the next step.

[41:11] And this policy document feeds into our, what we'll bring to you for consideration for zoning code updates.

[41:19] That will be what really drives it.

[41:22] We kind of all depends on how things shake out.

[41:25] We'll bring a couple of amendments here next month, a few months later some smaller amendments as well to address some nagging issues.

[41:34] And then I would assume by the end of summer, we hope to bring some big changes in

[41:40] in regards to zoning districts and those regulations.

[41:44] So you're going to want to do that right during budget time?

[41:47] Well, I will probably do it afterwards, but yeah, I mean, we'll be working at spring, summer, those bigger, bigger ticket items.

[41:53] Yeah.

[41:56] And Chad, I just look, the highest density we have on there is 15 dwelling units per acre and

[42:02] the high density residential district and that's a really small part of this future land use map.

[42:08] So that's as high as we've laid out in policy.

[42:12] 15 and up, right?

[42:14] 15 at the top.

[42:15] Yep.

[42:16] So that would involve new construction, right?

[42:19] I mean, that wouldn't be going into a neighborhood

[42:21] that already exists and taken out some dilapidated houses

[42:26] or blighted homes.

[42:27] And on that high end, definitely, that's the intention.

[42:30] If you see it, it's that kind of orangeous color.

[42:33] So largely those are areas undeveloped and that be new.

[42:37] There is a strategy, especially in the middle of the older part

[42:42] a town that middle density.

[42:47] That's really reflective of what's there now when you think of the older

[42:51] neighborhoods where there may be some majestic older big homes right next to a town home. Well

[42:57] that town home probably has a density upwards to 15 or 20 dwelling units per acre. It's just really

[43:04] a dense and I think there's some strategies that we want to look at where we would allow. It's called

[43:10] All the missing middle meaning it's not single family homes on big locks and it's not big apartment complex.

[43:17] It's in that middle and they've historically have occurred all across Hastings and

[43:22] other communities and older developments where we could still allow those to occur through redevelopment.

[43:28] Be it is a highly designed zoning regulation, meaning we're going to look at it to make sure it looks right with the neighborhood.

[43:35] but they could be having a four-plex or a six-plex or something even more

[43:40] that fits within that neighborhood so we can sneak in more front doors on

[43:46] utilities that are already there to provide those new homes we need without

[43:51] having to spend a whole lot more money extending a road out or sewer out on the

[43:57] edge of town. But the tension there, we set it up here with the future land use map and

[44:06] then we bring it home with really good zoning regulations that meet that design standards,

[44:13] how lots are laid out so it meets the neighborhood character.

[44:18] The comp plan can be changed, though.

[44:21] Absolutely. Yes, it can be amended by you any time.

[44:27] I was going to say, that's the point of that annual update with the Planning Commission and you from staff who are just giving you an ability to say, hey, this isn't working for us, we've got more development or this is not right, whatever, and then we can make those adjustments if there are some really wholesale things we need to.

[44:47] But it can be done on a case-by-case basis.

[44:50] Yeah.

[44:52] I'm glad you said that.

[44:53] Not many places.

[44:54] Not many cities say, hey, how often can we use this thing?

[44:57] How often can we update it?

[44:58] So it it really is.

[45:00] It's meant to be looked at and updated as much as you on a per case basis. So I was just curious regarding the plan going forward. Is the intention to bring this comprehensive plan online associated with this? After discussion, I would love some thumbs-ups or thumbs-downs or sideways from all the council members in the mayor of if we are good to proceed. If we are, I'd really like to take this to the

[45:31] a planning commission at their February meeting for adoption,

[45:35] which would be then bringing it back to you all in March

[45:38] for public hearing to consider it

[45:42] and hopefully passing a resolution

[45:45] to get it adopted.

[45:46] Does what about sending this to the BID,

[45:50] HEDC, some of these groups and let them put their eyes on it?

[45:53] We did invite them to a meeting September

[45:57] but opened getting to them absolutely.

[45:59] They're all players in this

[46:00] So we should discuss it for sure.

[46:06] I just want to echo that this has been going on for about two plus years.

[46:12] I mean, when I was put on the Planning and Zoning Commission, part of that process has been going on.

[46:17] Yeah, so I mean, the in-depth they've gone out to the college.

[46:21] We've had meetings out of the college about the comprehensive plan.

[46:24] They've done the think-tank thing to the community as well.

[46:28] They've done a thorough job on investigating all the aspects of this.

[46:33] The question I have for Chad, this is a lot.

[46:36] And when it comes to this, I take a look at it and

[46:39] we had some conversations about fixing zoning issues.

[46:44] So when we adopt this plan is the idea to go after fixing the zoning definition of zones first,

[46:51] First, or start looking at more of the places that need to be fixed on the plots, on that needs to be fixed.

[46:59] Because one of the ones that we ran into right away, well, just recently that I was experienced was the expansion of the meatpacking plant.

[47:08] And we noticed that we have that area set as a residential right next to a meatpacking plant.

[47:15] And so just to take a look at that, I mean, I know that you want to be able to put the zones in place first.

[47:21] but also by not adjusting some of that, it henders developers to come into the community to say, yes, this is a great, this amount of acreage is great for our development, we'll take it.

[47:33] So without having to go through a whole lot of zoning changes and things like that, so is it, what's the plan or tactic from you for that aspect?

[47:41] My intention there, it's a great question and we have some updates that I really want to push just and I can give a lot of examples but my intention is to, like said, spring summer go through the big wholesale tickets with all of our zoning districts and work through a lot of them to get them right and at that same time we would also discuss with the community.

[48:11] making necessary changes to land, like that residential property surrounded by highway and industrial areas.

[48:19] As we're bringing forward code, the written word updates, we would also bring map change updates and fix those kind of things,

[48:30] so kind of take them in tandem with each other, insectively.

[48:34] Thank you.

[48:35] I will say we have a big undertaking when it comes to the zoning code updates in front of us.

[48:42] There's a lot of best management practices we need to incorporate some improvements and

[48:48] things that could just allow for a lot more development.

[48:53] I have a tattooed humanities right now trying to figure out how they can get a site built in our zoning regulations.

[49:00] organizations are just not built for how small they want to go down for a lot right now.

[49:06] And so those are great organizations and bringing really good affordable homes to the community

[49:11] that we just need to figure out how we can make those happen logically.

[49:15] So a lot of work ahead of us, but we're excited about it.

[49:18] And this is the first step.

[49:20] So last time the zoning codes have been revamped.

[49:25] No, I take that back.

[49:26] I did speak with consultant for the other day, and it's probably around 2009, 2010, shortly after our last plan update.

[49:37] What residential property is by the meat backing plant, I'm just curious.

[49:41] It's zone residential, it's that vacant land to the north of the M street, that's vacant, nothing on it, but

[49:49] it's zone residential, single-family residential, so nothing wrong of single-family residential there, but

[49:57] But obviously it's been that way for a long, long time and maybe not zoned appropriately to get the best use out of that land with what's around it.

[50:16] Continue on.

[50:18] May I ask a quick,

[50:23] maybe I should back off here.

[50:26] I think are we kind of at a point where we can just ask kind of general questions about page 80, talks about community rating system.

[50:38] It's saying that we need to try to do this rating system, and that it's, that it's something you can volunteer for.

[50:46] I don't see any downside, is it real expensive to do?

[50:51] Is there some reason why we don't do it?

[50:53] Is it going to take three, you have to leave and go to Europe for three months, Mr. Chad?

[50:58] Or why is there any reason why that is not just a very smart thing to do?

[51:06] that we actually have to put it in here and say, hey, we ought to do this?

[51:10] Yeah, so I have quite a bit of familiarity with that program.

[51:14] Briefly, it is a program through FEMA that your community is essentially graded by the state

[51:22] and FEMA on their floodplain regulations and how they mitigate flood-prone properties.

[51:31] When I was in Kansas doing this, we organized this and got up to level six, meaning we were the highest in the state, goes from ten to one.

[51:43] Every step you get improved, you get 5% off of your flood insurance policy, so it is a good program.

[51:51] There's a little bit of paperwork to do.

[51:54] And probably the downside is, and I'm really just not comfortable where we're at in some

[52:00] of those rules because we don't have a great deal of floodplain, floodplain properties

[52:05] is you invite the state and FEMA into evaluate your program.

[52:11] And so that means that every fence that might be in a floodplain property, you have to go

[52:16] and say, hey, property owner, that fence is illegal, give us a permit and bring it into

[52:22] So just to have been so much else going on, we haven't evaluated just how that will work.

[52:30] But it is a program that pays dividends for those folks that are paying flood insurance.

[52:35] So not a bad program just haven't risen up high on the on the list take care of.

[52:42] And when you're still undergoing asian?

[52:44] Yes, right.

[52:44] Still trying to secure all that stuff.

[52:46] As Councilman Hoffman said, there's a lot of coding and policy things we need to get fixed first.

[52:52] I'm assuming that should be a priority over that.

[52:56] Okay. Thank you.

[52:58] The

[53:05] other discussion, Chad, do you have any more presentation?

[53:08] I know we're done, right?

[53:10] So, my last question then would be, where's the comfort level from the council of proceeding with adoption?

[53:19] And yes, sir, I have another question.

[53:22] So how does this plan differ from the plan that we have right now?

[53:27] I mean, in the big picture, how does this differ from the plan we're using right now to move forward?

[53:35] What I would say on a summary level, it allows for more residential density and more parts of the community.

[53:48] It looks outward more than what our current plan does, so if we were to, you know, as

[53:56] Mason said, someone wanted to grow the community to the northwest of here, our current plan

[54:02] I don't believe is really set up to accommodate for that.

[54:07] And so we have, you know, this map shows where we anticipate to grow what that growth should

[54:13] look like residential here, industrial there, those kind of things where our current

[54:18] plan probably doesn't. Those are probably two big ticket items, more residential,

[54:24] density, and a wider ring of growth.

[54:28] Okay, and I have another, well actually I have a few questions about that by all means.

[54:33] The median income on page 28 doesn't appear to change much. What's the plan have to bring

[54:42] the median income of. I mean, it's housing, it's great to build houses, but if your incomes don't

[54:48] increase, you can't forward them anyways, right? Like who's bringing in business for all these

[54:59] people that are going to come into town to be able to afford to live in Hastings?

[55:06] Got an answer

[55:06] to that? I think, and this isn't probably the best answer I can give you, but what this

[55:14] plan can do in addressing those issues. I mean, there needs to be more housing, there

[55:19] needs to be more jobs, higher incomes, all these things. Like I said at the beginning,

[55:24] this kind of provides a basis point for the city to make decisions. So you can say, hey,

[55:30] we have space, we have area for businesses, we maybe through the zoning regulations, Chad

[55:36] can kind of cut some red tape and make it easier to start a home-based business, start, make

[55:43] make it easier for things to happen here in the city that plan, this plan will provide

[55:47] a basis for things to be easier, hopefully for you guys to make any decisions.

[55:52] You know, everything's tied together, so if, you know, the housing policy makes, means

[55:57] more housing is developed in the city inside or outside, then that can maybe address.

[56:03] There's more space for people to move here than people can have those, those jobs that

[56:08] that Chad makes easier to happen for the zoning.

[56:11] So it's, I wish that this plan could be used

[56:16] for more economic development like that,

[56:18] but it's kind of like that jumping off point for the city.

[56:21] This provides that basis for you guys to move forward.

[56:25] It's all a part of the puzzle.

[56:27] It's definitely not the only thing that helps with that.

[56:30] And again, I wish I could give you a better answer.

[56:34] Probably one of the worst parts of my job is

[56:36] that this plan is just one piece.

[56:38] We wish we always wish we could do more, but this is just one piece of it, so that answers your question a little.

[56:46] Yeah, so is there a group that is bringing business, I mean that is actively, I mean I understand the HEDC is doing this, but

[56:56] it's been a long time that we've said that there's all this negative on Facebook and everywhere which doesn't matter much to me.

[57:03] But I can see where a business, if it's what everybody says, you look at Facebook and

[57:09] you say, why would we want to move there?

[57:11] So who is actively pursuing business, whether they're larger or small, small would be preferable.

[57:19] A lot of small is better than one big that goes under.

[57:23] Who's pursuing bringing those businesses into hastings?

[57:27] I mean, I hear that it's the old fathers that are keeping them out, but that's not the case.

[57:32] There's there's got to be more to it than that because if a business we have a power plant that's

[57:38] Got a lot of power

[57:41] Where's what what is our reason for businesses not coming in haste?

[57:45] I guess I'm just looking for is that in this plan that that we bring business in and we have a

[57:51] Plan to get them in here

[57:54] so no like

[57:56] Again as much as I wish

[57:58] Planners where they end all be all and people would listen to us. We're not

[58:01] Not.

[58:02] This is only a small piece of that puzzle.

[58:07] It covers the document covers a lot of document or excuse me, topics.

[58:13] But this does not get us more jobs.

[58:16] This does not get us higher paychecks.

[58:20] It merely lays out where those things should go.

[58:25] So organizations like the Chamber, HEDC, the Manufacturer Association, and others are

[58:33] the ones that are really going out and hustling it.

[58:40] I hope with the growth that we had in 2024, with rooftops, my experience is as rooftops

[58:48] come into town, then businesses recognize, hey, that town's growing, they need more X, Y,

[58:55] the business, restaurants, whatever those may be, you know, tire shops, whatever that may be,

[59:01] and so I think some of that will naturally come. I will say my experience also is some organizations

[59:09] focus on industrial and the things like more rest sit down restaurants or clothing stores or whatever

[59:19] are just a wonderful byproduct of more houses and or an industrial employer coming to town.

[59:29] And so I would defer a lot of those questions of growth in that smaller business stuff,

[59:37] entrepreneurship which I fully support to the chamber to the HEDC.

[59:42] It's fortunately just not in the Bayley Wicked this plan.

[59:45] So, Chad, is there, at some point, based on what Mr. Anderson said and what you just said, is there some point to where you could potentially have more housing that just sets empty because there's not enough industry that comes in so you?

[1:00:00] I have basically vacant new vacant houses because there's nobody here to fill them. I suppose in theory and Mason hop in here, if you think I'm wrong, in theory, that could happen. But I don't know of anywhere. Any vibrant community that that is occurring. It may, someone may have, well, yeah, someone may have built a bunch of homes in a place that was dying foolishly.

[1:00:29] I don't see, I wouldn't classify hastings at that at all so it's yeah in our you

[1:00:38] know our housing study this shows that we are in a deficit by a chunk a good

[1:00:43] deal when it comes to new front doors and so we'd have to build a whole bunch

[1:00:48] for us to get to that point of producing more homes than than what's needed.

[1:00:56] I think it's a little bit different scale, but in Manhattan, Kansas, my hometown, it's a different scenario.

[1:01:04] But, and Chad, I don't know if you were around at that time, but when about 2009, the city, and again, I could have that date wrong.

[1:01:12] They built a lot of housing, expecting, and I believe Junction City,

[1:01:16] other cities in that region when soldiers are coming back to Fort Riley that hey, we're going to get proactive and build a bunch of housing.

[1:01:22] and that did not pan out.

[1:01:24] But that was an extreme example.

[1:01:26] And like Chad said, I don't think communities

[1:01:30] that have their head on straight would build,

[1:01:32] or housing developers would come here,

[1:01:34] build a bunch of housing.

[1:01:35] If they didn't expect there to be the demand,

[1:01:38] like Chad said, the housing study shows,

[1:01:40] you guys are already in a deficit.

[1:01:42] There'd have to be a lot of housing built for that to occur.

[1:01:45] You know, but the trend is across the country,

[1:01:47] there's a housing shortage.

[1:01:48] So in every scene, maybe my biggest concern is,

[1:01:52] as you build all these houses, and they said empty, because there's no businesses that come into town to fill them.

[1:01:57] And then what does that do?

[1:01:59] Yeah, that doesn't help us.

[1:02:01] But I also could see that, I mean, again, we're talking in theoretical states,

[1:02:08] because I just don't see that happening in Hastings, but also there's such a labor shortage that if you're building enough homes

[1:02:14] to get people to move to Hastings, because the supply and demand, more homes, means cheaper homes.

[1:02:22] Someone would say, hey, there's a bunch of people here looking for jobs and we would get employment on the back end of those

[1:02:29] Household being filled. Again, that is super in my head anyhow. That's super theoretical.

[1:02:35] We're talking, you know, just brainstorming things because we are growing. I think those homes are getting filled.

[1:02:44] You know, the homes that are being built on Lakeview are being sold before they're finished.

[1:02:50] So I think we're in a really good spot does that mean we just go keep out and say hey bill bill bill

[1:02:56] No, we got to be smart about it. We don't want to just

[1:02:59] Don't put a bunch of stuff in the community until we're ready, but and or annex annex annex. That's part of that annexation policy

[1:03:08] But I think we're in a really good spot of growth

[1:03:11] manageable growth and doing good things here to follow up on mr. Anderson's question

[1:03:18] Do you have any inkling of why our medium income grows very slowly?

[1:03:29] Any ideas, or I have an idea, but I'm just curious as to what you might think.

[1:03:39] I really wish that we have another planner in our office, John Shepard.

[1:03:43] And he helped us put together the economic data for this plan.

[1:03:48] He could probably give you a really good answer.

[1:03:50] I can't, Chad, I'm not sure.

[1:03:54] That's just not where my experience lies.

[1:03:58] Yeah, I mean, it'd be just a wild guess, I think part of his economics, the marketplace,

[1:04:03] what employers are willing to pay, what skills our residents have, that employers are

[1:04:10] willing to pay.

[1:04:11] So there's so many factors into that income.

[1:04:16] And we're on the low end and then we have some neighborhoods in Hastings that are on the extreme low end when it comes to the median household income.

[1:04:25] So we're looking at a grant, you'll see it next week trying to address some of those costs for households to lower down when it comes to transportation and those sort of things.

[1:04:38] So we're not going to be able to, well, I suppose we can, but I don't see it palpable to demand businesses to say go pay your staff more, but we can do things on our end to make those income or excuse me, those household expenses lower.

[1:04:53] Easier to walk and bike to work rather than have to buy a car.

[1:04:58] More opportunities for different household, you know, different housing types to make that more appropriate in terms of, you know.

[1:05:07] the cost for household, those kind of things.

[1:05:11] So I don't know if you have a different thought or a comment.

[1:05:15] Well, I'd be purely a comment, and nothing whatsoever against our Hispanic community, but

[1:05:22] it seems like it grows, and those folks are willing to work for less.

[1:05:27] So my thought is that that probably figures into that medium income, not progressing very

[1:05:36] much.

[1:05:37] I mean, they're hardworking people, but truth is, they're willing to work for less than a lot of other folks.

[1:05:45] So I just was curious if that's a possibility.

[1:05:54] When you're talking about the median income here anyway, there's an average out there.

[1:05:59] I assume that you're looking at for across the country, the median, whatever a median income is.

[1:06:05] but is there a time to where or maybe it's already in place here is that every

[1:06:12] community is different when it comes to income. So when you are talking about

[1:06:18] medium income and hastings, are you using hastings numbers or are you using those

[1:06:23] on the national average or the state average for that matter whatever it is

[1:06:29] because everybody's different with the you know what they have in their

[1:06:32] community and how much they're paying.

[1:06:34] Yeah, we're using numbers from the census, so four hastings, it's health.

[1:06:38] Yep.

[1:06:39] Just a second, Maggie has a question.

[1:06:42] Thank you.

[1:06:43] I'll get better at speaking up.

[1:06:45] I'm going backwards a little bit, but Mike, you had mentioned what are we doing to incentivize more small business development?

[1:06:53] And so I previously worked for Central Community Colleges Entrepreneurship Center,

[1:06:59] which is focused on providing free business coaching and business planning to anyone within the community that wants to start a business because I'm on the same pages

[1:07:09] if we can have more small businesses in the community, I think that's going to set Hastings up for some major success now but in the future as well.

[1:07:17] So economic development is definitely a big piece of the business attraction but also the business retention and expansion, which is really important.

[1:07:25] But there are other entities in the community, through CCC and through some tri-city services that are able to provide those free services in most cases to help people start and finance their own small business.

[1:07:43] So I just want to make sure in a public setting I could say that because I think it's really important.

[1:07:49] I want to talk about the raise grant while you're talking about it, about the public meeting

[1:07:55] on Thursday.

[1:07:57] Yeah, happy to just make that announcement.

[1:07:59] We have a public meeting community open house Thursday at 630 at the Lincoln Elementary

[1:08:05] School.

[1:08:07] It's to discuss and get some feedback from those folks in the south part of town about

[1:08:14] We're submitting to the U.S. Department of Transportation further study how we can get some better system improvements, if you will, better sidewalks, better trails, better ways of giving up and over or under, however, of the railroad tracks, the highway 281 or 34 highway setting us up for success to get some things built.

[1:08:43] So, baby steps, but I'm excited about that grant opportunity.

[1:08:48] So, not really on topic of the comp plan, but thank you for reminding me of that meeting coming up.

[1:08:53] I'm talking about a little bit earlier, so.

[1:08:55] Yep.

[1:08:56] Councilman Anderson and I will be there in attendance and calling this our first town hall meeting.

[1:09:01] Thank you for hosting that meeting.

[1:09:02] I appreciate it.

[1:09:05] Any other discussion on this?

[1:09:08] Yeah, I have another question.

[1:09:11] So, in the-

[1:09:15] Yeah, yeah, that wasn't my question, but in the comprehensive plan, it said the bachelor degree like that people who had bachelor degrees weren't getting the jobs that I'm asking for some explanation, but along that line, I'm thinking of the kids that go to CCC and they take the welding course and get certified what other courses they can take, I'm not sure.

[1:09:43] I mean, there's a lot of other courses, but can they come to Hastings and get a job that pays the projected income,

[1:09:50] that, you know, when you get this welding certificate that says you're going to get 30 bucks an hour,

[1:09:56] how many of them can start working in Hastings at $30 an hour, or 25 bucks an hour, or, you know, is that achievable?

[1:10:08] Or do you know?

[1:10:09] And I think my best answer would be on page 31, we look at employment data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, a good chunk of jobs and hastings as of 2022 are in manufacturing.

[1:10:25] I'm not entirely an expert on the kind of jobs they're here, but I believe there are those kind of jobs when we had those discussions with students at CCC.

[1:10:35] see, you know, we talked to them and a lot of them said they would love to stay and

[1:10:40] work in Hastings, but there wasn't a place for them to stay, a place for them to live.

[1:10:45] So not to get back into that discussion, but I believe those jobs are here for people.

[1:10:52] I just think they need the opportunity on an affordable place, a safe place to live.

[1:10:59] This is a whole other tangent, but we've talked with a lot of people over the last few years

[1:11:04] and I've known people personally that live in Grand Island and drive the Hastings to work and they go back home

[1:11:10] or they live in Karni and they drive down here or just don't live here at all because there is not a safe or affordable apartment for them.

[1:11:18] Do you have any data that shows how many people live in Hastings working in another community or vice versa?

[1:11:25] So we do on page 33, the Census Bureau has a program called On The Map and I believe

[1:11:40] it's kind of an estimate, but it's the best data we've got on where people live, where

[1:11:48] their place of employment is, and then we can tie that to their travel time to work.

[1:11:55] those two data sets together and I mean 56% of people, their jobs are here in

[1:12:02] Hastings but then when we look at the travel time for where people try or the

[1:12:06] amount of time people spend in a car a good majority are in that grand

[1:12:12] island Junietta out the county range so I would say it's about 50% of people are

[1:12:19] are live here and work here, but there's that looks like up to maybe 40% or not 40, yeah about 40% live elsewhere in drive-in.

[1:12:32] So it's not a huge number.

[1:12:34] But wouldn't a lot of that be contributed to? There's a lot of farmers.

[1:12:37] Absolutely. Farming families were once one person works at the farm, one person works.

[1:12:43] Was a nurse or a teacher or something there?

[1:12:45] So again, it's not the best data that the census puts together, but it gives us a good idea of where people are coming from.

[1:12:58] I have a question. I'm having a little bit of a problem with the lack of housing, if you want to call it.

[1:13:06] I know of families that own apartments and hastings that with the opening of the new ones, their occupancy rate has gone from 100 to 75.

[1:13:19] How can we keep using the excuse of not enough housing?

[1:13:25] I think that's a good point.

[1:13:27] I think honestly what's been uncovered a lot in this process is a perception problem too.

[1:13:32] That there's a perception that there isn't housing in Hastings, that there isn't the jobs here in Hastings when in reality there is, or there could be, or it could be made easier through some of these processes.

[1:13:44] Well I approached these folks because I drive by these apartments at least once a week and the street was full of cars.

[1:13:53] Now there's no cars in the street, I mean they've got some parking off street but I approached them and the lady said we're down to 75% occupancy.

[1:14:07] So I have a problem, I guess.

[1:14:10] I think you're right, and I think that's kind of just an overall, I don't want to say problem in Hastings,

[1:14:16] but that there's a perception that things are worse than they are.

[1:14:19] They really aren't.

[1:14:21] Obviously it's not brand new, but they're not falling down junk either.

[1:14:24] Sure.

[1:14:25] I would push back though that if apartment buildings are running at 100% occupancy,

[1:14:34] Then we probably have some struggles with our housing, amount of housing.

[1:14:43] That's not the norm, you know, if you are a, to my experience, if you are an apartment owner you would love to have 100% occupancy but the reality is more like 80%.

[1:14:56] because you always have some things in flux, some of them.

[1:15:00] It was out to move to a different job and et cetera. And so if all of our apartments are running

[1:15:06] 100% occupancy, that probably means we are way too tight of a housing market. Because you

[1:15:15] want, I mean, it would be like the grocery store every day running out of milk that we're

[1:15:24] just not keeping up with the demand on the supply side.

[1:15:29] And so 75% to low, yeah, maybe that causes me some concern.

[1:15:35] But if we are running at 100% occupancy

[1:15:38] on all of our quality apartments,

[1:15:41] then I would say that is like the grocery store

[1:15:43] running out of butter and milk every night

[1:15:45] and people showing up at 7.30 to get a gallon of milk

[1:15:50] and a loaf of bread and the shelves are empty.

[1:15:53] But if they were historically running close to 100, now root 75, that indicates a little

[1:16:01] problem to me.

[1:16:02] That indicates someone that there's more options in the market and people don't need that

[1:16:08] for bedroom or they only have one bedroom units and they're putting two or three kiddos

[1:16:14] or whatever that may be.

[1:16:16] What we probably are getting to the point we're having more options, 75 maybe is a little

[1:16:21] low.

[1:16:22] And we've only started now, I mean, those new apartments

[1:16:27] are online.

[1:16:29] So it's not as if those folks left that apartment building

[1:16:33] to go out there, and that's causing them that dip.

[1:16:36] So there's something else going on there I don't know.

[1:16:40] But I would love to see about 80, 85%.

[1:16:43] I think that's what most people when they are operating

[1:16:49] rental units like to see.

[1:16:51] And that's I think where we should be in that ballpark, just to keep a lot of options and availability.

[1:16:57] The other piece is, if you're always at 100 and you get a new employee that wants to come to town, there's no place for them to, I experienced that 18 months ago, so we gotta find that balance.

[1:17:08] Right, but I don't want to see the same excuse being used all the time now that we're short when you've got room, that's my point.

[1:17:18] I have just one more question.

[1:17:23] So the parking downtown, is there anything in this plan to address parking downtown?

[1:17:29] Because I think there's a project that's going to eat up a parking lot next to the Reno, well, possibly.

[1:17:35] But the question is, if we're going to develop downtown and have retailers downtown,

[1:17:41] if you can't park downtown, who's going to go downtown?

[1:17:43] So that largely is not addressed in this document, there are 2021 transportation and

[1:17:51] parking transportation and parking master plan extensively looked at downtown and I would

[1:17:58] say we have a perception problem more than an actual parking problem.

[1:18:03] We have, I had a conversation this morning so I'm well versed on the topic, 2,155 parking

[1:18:11] spaces in downtown Hastings and the border essentially from Minnesota to

[1:18:17] Burlington 4th or 5th down the 1st. It's balanced fairly equally from

[1:18:27] on street parking, public parking lots, private parking lots, and we have a

[1:18:33] fairly decent spread. It's not like all 2,000 are stuck in the far north corner

[1:18:40] that no one wants to go to.

[1:18:42] That study found by taking a variety of samples during the weekday and

[1:18:47] different times of the weekday and then weekend, different times of the weekend.

[1:18:52] We run, I think it was around 45% during the weekday of those parking spaces being occupied,

[1:19:00] and 25% on the weekends.

[1:19:04] You don't start considering having an area of parking problems until you get

[1:19:09] upwards in the 85 to 90% range. So on a whole, we sit pretty good with our

[1:19:18] parking. We do not have a parking problem. We have an unfortunate perception

[1:19:22] problem of I want to park right in front of that business and get out and walk

[1:19:27] rather than park around the corner where there's a big parking lot and walk that

[1:19:31] half block or whatnot. Not everyone can do that. Maybe we have issues with

[1:19:36] Handicap parking, we could have a good solid discussion on that.

[1:19:40] But in terms of overall parking across the whole district,

[1:19:44] we've got parking coming out of our ears.

[1:19:47] It may not be what everybody wants or wishes to be right in front of the front door,

[1:19:52] but that's just not the case to be honest with you.

[1:19:55] And I should add to a lot of the goals and actions you'll find in this plan,

[1:20:01] support other documents that have been written.

[1:20:03] And so we don't actually get into transportation and parking.

[1:20:08] We don't get into, there was a walkability study a few years ago,

[1:20:11] but we do reference it in this plan and say, support that document.

[1:20:15] Everything that's in those documents is not superseded by this.

[1:20:18] It's everything works in simpatico.

[1:20:21] The biggest part of your plan was land use.

[1:20:24] Yeah, right.

[1:20:25] Right, right.

[1:20:26] Yeah, that's it.

[1:20:27] Yeah.

[1:20:32] Mr. Buncher.

[1:20:34] So here's, I'm going to summarize what I would think you'd like to say, please correct

[1:20:41] me for a moment.

[1:20:42] However you'd very seldom do,

[1:20:46] in order to grow our town, we've paid some people to come

[1:20:51] up with this plan, worked with them diligently, and we've said we've been thinking like this.

[1:20:58] Let's think a little bit bigger, let's think a little bit differently, let's expand this,

[1:21:02] let's plan on this.

[1:21:03] Let's remember we need to do this and you're simply asking us if we give you a thumbs-up or thumbs down tonight to say

[1:21:11] How do you like this so far? Not everything has to be perfect?

[1:21:15] but at least it's changing our mindset so that

[1:21:20] The different

[1:21:21] Folks are sitting in the room. We have to make plans. No. Hey. They did tell us don't think like this anymore

[1:21:27] Now we can start to think a lot a little like that. May I assume with the

[1:21:34] That is where we're at, and that's what you'd like to say.

[1:21:37] That's, yeah, pretty much, yeah.

[1:21:40] And when you want us to proceed on, or say, okay, Chad, go ahead, proceed on.

[1:21:45] You'll take it to Chamber, HEDC, BID, along with planning.

[1:21:53] And then it comes back to us, and we'll have a public hearing also.

[1:21:56] Correct, so I will make sure by the end of the week,

[1:22:00] I send it to those organizations and say happy to come chat with whoever through those

[1:22:08] organizations to inform them.

[1:22:12] If get the thumbs up and you want to proceed, we will do a public hearing with the planning

[1:22:16] commission in February is my timeline.

[1:22:20] They would then give their recommendation to you and then we would have a public hearing

[1:22:25] with you all in March.

[1:22:28] And to see where it goes.

[1:22:29] We have multiple times yet still to make changes, so this is not set in stone, so if you don't like something in there, we can definitely talk about it, make some changes.

[1:22:40] But we're working on a 15 year old plus plan, Hastings has evolved and changed and our zoning rules need to evolve and change with it, and this is the first step in helping that move along.

[1:22:54] Well, let's identify, too, Chad, I've spoken, so I have to say something.

[1:22:58] Let's identify, too.

[1:23:00] In fact, I've listened to the City Council ask, and I feel you would say this, a lot of good questions, and you've had some good answers.

[1:23:10] And I think this needs to be looked at as an outline, and I mean, it's not a direction, it's an outline, it points out some weaknesses,

[1:23:19] This is some directions that other cities have taken that give us some good ideas going forward.

[1:23:25] And I listen to Larry about the housing issue.

[1:23:28] My thought process on growth, whether industrial or housing is, I kind of look at like, I'm a simple guy.

[1:23:36] I look at like the field of dreams.

[1:23:38] You know, you can build it and they will come, or you can ask them to come and then you will build it for them.

[1:23:45] And you won't get any growth that way.

[1:23:46] I mean, we have to have, you know, we need to identify the right numbers, and we have to have housing, and we have to have sustained growth, like Chad mentioned to, and this is just an outline going forward, identifying different statistics.

[1:24:01] I mean, it's not the most exciting thing to read I've ever read, that's for sure, but these are important things, and this punches us a ticket that we haven't punched for 15 years now, to go after some state and some federal funding.

[1:24:16] to go for these projects, so I mean, I think as long as this is a working, breathing document, and I think Steve had a good idea going in front of some other people to get some eyes on it.

[1:24:30] So people that are actually going to use it to recruit the businesses?

[1:24:33] Exactly, because that's also going to go towards recruitment of industry and marketing or retail and everything going forward.

[1:24:41] I mean, as long as it's a working document, we have it done.

[1:24:44] I think you've done a good job.

[1:24:45] It's very comprehensive and full of information.

[1:24:49] I mean, my idea is, and if I can look at my city council

[1:24:53] that had great questions, you know, I think we, you know,

[1:24:57] I would say I would like to go forward with it

[1:24:59] and keep pursuing those avenues and identify where,

[1:25:04] you know, some directions that we need to go.

[1:25:06] And I feel like it's a pretty good plan.

[1:25:09] And this is the first time I've seen it, obviously.

[1:25:12] So it's good information.

[1:25:15] And I think we've had some good input today.

[1:25:17] I think we can go forward.

[1:25:19] I just took a quick little straw vote over here on this side.

[1:25:24] Majority is saying proceed forward.

[1:25:26] I don't know if these guys want to take a minute.

[1:25:28] Should we look to the right?

[1:25:29] Larry's voting thumbs up.

[1:25:32] Not a binding vote, right?

[1:25:35] No, the straw vote, we don't make decisions here.

[1:25:39] But consensus is continue and thank you for coming and providing this information and I think you've done a good job.

[1:25:50] Any other questions on this?

[1:25:54] Did we get a consensus from the right?

[1:25:56] I'm very good.

[1:25:59] Your head's in the way.

[1:26:04] We have majority of these two are undecided.

[1:26:13] We know where the mayor stands, so I think you're safe, he won't yell at you this way.

[1:26:22] Thank you for the questions, really good input, appreciate it, and we'll keep moving.

[1:26:28] So you know other business, I will entertain a motion to adjourn.

[1:26:37] We got to let me tell you what it's for.

[1:26:39] You know, you know, I could just declare it closed, but motion by Fong, second by Esch, all in favor say aye.

[1:26:48] Roan, are you opposed?

[1:26:51] Okay, motion carries, Edo. Mr. Mayor, you can gavel, that's your job.

[1:26:58] How'd you oppose me and you didn't oppose him?

[1:27:00] I like them. Yeah. See you. See how you're doing.

City Council Worksession

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