[1:20] Our

[1:28] Father in heaven, be thy name. Thres

[1:41] for those who tresass against us. Lead us not into

[1:46] us from evil. Th kingdom power. Amen.

[1:59] For which stands one nation.

[2:10] This chair is hard. Madam follow. >> Miss Miller here.

[2:17] Dr. Miller, >> Mr. St. Clia,

[2:20] » present, >> Mr. Msina

[2:22] » present, >> Mr. Ethley

[2:24] » here, >> Miss Davis

[2:25] » here, >> five present.

[2:27] » Thank you. So, we do have a quorum with five members present today. Um,

[2:33] being that this is a special call meeting. Uh this is as we all know in

[2:38] part uh as it pertains to recent changes with the police department schedule um

[2:42] and the updates that have happened. You only have one um handout in front of you

[2:46] outside of the agenda. That is a handout of over an overtime report that contains

[2:53] three specific reports um and we'll go through those. The first report is a

[2:57] year-to-ate look at overtime for the police department. So everything from uh

[3:02] January 1st through August. Uh the second report is a report month in July

[3:09] and the third report for the month of August. So we'll look at all three of

[3:13] those. Um that's what's packet. So um I want

[3:19] the chief is here today and I'm going to yield the floor to him uh briefly but um

[3:25] I want to give a quick timeline of just some of the changes and maybe I should

[3:30] get into the mic a little more. I want to give a brief uh timeline of some of

[3:33] the changes that were made over the last month um and somewhat over the last

[3:38] couple of weeks. So, April of this year, if you all remember, I alerted the

[3:43] council and police department that overtime spending was nearly at capacity

[3:47] for budget um for what was set for this year. For this year, our budget for

[3:51] overtime for police was $110,000. That's what we said we would um budget for. The

[3:57] directive was for the department to contain overtime as much as possible uh

[4:02] moving forward through the rest of the year. So, um my stance has been that

[4:06] overtime can't completely stop, but we have to monitor it a lot more closely so

[4:10] that uh we're not um we're not spending taxpayer dollars unnecessarily. June,

[4:17] July, and August reports reported consistent overtime usage despite the

[4:20] directive for a shift. August 20th, the city council approved new vehicles for

[4:25] the police department. And I shared with the chief that over time um would be

[4:30] capped. Monday, August 24th, at 1:46 p.m., an email marked urgent was sent to

[4:37] both fire and police departments that overtime was being overhauled by the

[4:41] administrative department. So, there was an email sent to both fire and police

[4:45] for the same reason. Overtime's got to be slowed down. The course of action

[4:50] stem from the fact that both departments were over budget as related to overtime.

[4:53] Both departments were instructed to create new schedules um to change new

[4:58] schedule changes to curb overtime when not necessary by Friday, August 28th.

[5:03] The email also contained an overtime request approval form for circumstances

[5:08] where departments may need it. So, I want to emphasize overhauling overtime

[5:12] and capping it is not the administrative department's way of saying that there

[5:16] will be no more overtime. overtime just has to be slowed down. So what we've

[5:20] implemented has been an over overtime approval um form that is uh that can be

[5:25] found through the HR office. Um, Wednesday, September 2nd, it was um it

[5:32] was noted by the by HR department that 12 shift 12-h hour shifts were still set

[5:37] for the police department, allowing police officers to earn an extra four

[5:40] hours of overtime per day that they completed a single shift um barring any

[5:45] extra hours that they may have made up for someone else. Also on Wednesday,

[5:49] September 2nd, um the chief did respond via email to share his thoughts about

[5:53] switching from a 12-h hour shift to an 8 hour shift, stating that safety was the

[5:58] main concern amongst those shift changes. Friday, September 4th, a reply

[6:03] was sent to the chief stating that the concerns were noted and would still we

[6:07] would still move to an 8 hour shift um by Monday, September 7th. Monday,

[6:12] September 7th, yesterday being the first day that the new schedule would take

[6:15] place, so that the city would be good stewards of finances that residents

[6:20] entrusted to us. Monday, September 7th, Chief Sanders uh called uh the mayor's

[6:26] office or the mayor at 6:42, this is yesterday, at 6:42 a.m. and 12:22 p.m.

[6:31] to acknowledge that officers called out sick and were not reporting to work. The

[6:36] first day, um I I'll remind you of the new changes. information was officially

[6:41] shared at 10:06 p.m. in special department and a special department

[6:44] meeting was called at 2:30 where I joined the department for um a whole

[6:48] department meeting at the justice complex at 2:30. During the special

[6:52] department meeting at 2:30 um I explained the changes to the department

[6:55] directly so that they would understand the purpose behind the changes and asked

[6:59] for any clarity that they needed. concerns from the police department

[7:03] mentioned namely also stemmed from around safety but also touched on pay

[7:08] that they were or were not making in current positions. Um as that point came

[7:13] up at different times throughout the conversation. I assured the department

[7:17] that all concerns did not fall on debt fears that I will begin to work and look

[7:21] for solutions immediately u with the council but also the chief of staff and

[7:26] that taxpayer dollars were not free money to tie that we could tie into

[7:29] 12-hour schedules. At 8:45 this morning um I met with Chief

[7:34] Sanders again and the chief of staff to understand how the new schedule was

[7:38] progressing and if any adjustments needed to be made. And as of

[7:42] approximately 12:59 this afternoon, I spoke with the chief to understand and

[7:46] understood the officers were no longer calling in sick. So um and I want to I

[7:54] know that uh Dr. Miller also simultaneously kind of sent this request

[7:58] out for um a meeting, but uh we did have officers call out yesterday. Um the call

[8:04] outs were due to sickness. Um and my assessment I do believe that the new

[8:10] schedule um capping it capping schedule time from 12 hours to 8 hours taking out

[8:15] direct overtime was part of that. That's my assessment and um what I share with

[8:21] the department was um it's my belief as mayor that for the

[8:26] city to run effectively every department has to be equipped as as best equipped

[8:30] as it can be. And we have a situation currently where that's going to take

[8:35] some being some creative thinking and some um out of the box thinking that

[8:39] sometimes um but

[8:44] their trucks that they just got or the vehicles that they just got that you all

[8:47] approved on August 20th was something that I noted. Um I did not directly

[8:51] propose the bonus. Um the raise and salary was not directly my idea that I

[8:57] put on the agenda back in um late this summer, but I know the previous mayor,

[9:02] Mayor Franklin, um and this council discussed that and we did put that on

[9:06] the agenda and we did get that passed. So part of the conversation was um

[9:12] amongst this group was how does overtime continue to look in the future? And um

[9:18] we're here today because I think that that schedule actually kicking off in

[9:22] part was not necessarily um ideal for some folks. So um I do want to yield to

[9:29] the chief because [snorts] I know that this body may have questions. I think

[9:32] it's great that the chief is here and um open up the fork for discussion.

[9:42] » Basically just what the mayor said. Uh I received a call Monday morning

[9:45] yesterday. from dispatch. Uh, nobody was at work.

[9:50] I proceeded to take calls from 6:00 to roughly 12:00 p.m. 6:00 a.m. to 12:00

[9:55] p.m. by myself. Uh, I finally got a hold to some of my

[10:00] officers. Again, some showed, some didn't. The ones that didn't did call in

[10:05] sick. Uh, I received some assistance from state police and the sheriff

[10:11] department. Uh but I will note every call for service was answered by Hel was

[10:17] held in the police department. There was no call left unanswered. The city had

[10:21] covered while from 6 to 12 it was just me. Every call got answered.

[10:27] I do appreciate and commend the officers that did show up and work elbow to elbow

[10:31] with me. And again I do thank the Arkansas State Police and Philips County

[10:36] Sheriff's Office for specifically also. I yield the floor to you all for any

[10:42] questions you may have. >> So, this was 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. was

[10:47] where we had the the coverage issues. >> Well, I would say it was a safety issue.

[10:52] I was by myself, but >> Yes, sir.

[10:54] » I answered every call for service, >> but but the I'm just I understand.

[10:59] » Yes, sir. I know you're very confident that 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. is that

[11:06] » Yes. >> Okay. And then um the officers that came

[11:10] in, were those regularly scheduled or these were officers who were not called?

[11:15] » The one that came um he wasn't scheduled to work the time that he came.

[11:20] » Okay. >> And he worked later.

[11:22] » So he came earlier. >> He came early. He was on vacation.

[11:26] » I got >> technically he wasn't supposed to be

[11:28] there at all that day. >> Okay.

[11:29] » Yesterday. >> Okay.

[11:31] » I called. He answered. We got it taken care of.

[11:35] » Okay. And then the um >> the the other two that came, they were

[11:40] on schedule. They worked their shifts. >> Okay. Now the uh this earnings detail,

[11:46] have you looked at it? >> Yes.

[11:47] » Okay. Is this is this just their earnings or is this also included?

[11:51] » That's including overtime. >> How do we know what's overtime? What is

[11:54] there a separate category in? >> I don't know what y'all have when I

[11:58] thought it was separated. >> So what you all have and I should

[12:00] provide that context at the beginning. So what you have on pages 105 through

[12:05] five, okay, this is overtime as it relates to um every officer. So this is

[12:11] » So this isrict strictly overtime >> um page 101 right after five and it's

[12:17] dated at the top um August, not August, but July 1st through

[12:22] July 31st. That is of overtime for the month of July. And then the final two

[12:27] pages are overtime for the um final month of August. So, I'll share with you

[12:32] a little bit of what I shared with the department yesterday. And and these

[12:35] conversations, um, I want to be honest and candid. They're not fun. Um, I I I

[12:39] shared that in as as many details or as many ways as I could with the

[12:43] department. Um, if you look for yourself just through different um different or

[12:51] different payroll reports, um, in some cases, take home pay for overtime has

[12:56] been 6,000, then 5,000, it's been 4,000. It's not that's not sustainable. Um,

[13:04] today >> per month per per pay period in some

[13:07] cases per pay period. Cool. >> Um,

[13:11] » to date, >> that for the whole department. Yeah.

[13:14] » Yeah. For >> the whole

[13:17] for so >> there were some takehome periods for two

[13:21] weeks where officers had as much as $3,000 of overtime. So I I'll direct you

[13:26] to um back of page five out of five. So July, the month of July. Um as you look

[13:32] at July, it's the sixth page in your packet. Um you can look down the totals.

[13:37] um the highest earning officer for that particular um pay period was for that

[13:43] particular month was 6 thou was right at 6,000 right now 6,000. So

[13:49] there are some high totals coming through um the police department in

[13:53] terms of what payroll people are taking home and my assessment was that it was

[13:58] because of how we were structuring the schedule. Um I do know and and I feel

[14:02] like I've been on record for saying this. I believe that city employees

[14:07] definitely need to have um higher wages. I think that some of our wages across

[14:12] the board are not where they should be, especially in 2026, but we have to do

[14:16] that in a way that's responsible and a way that makes sense. So, um looking at

[14:21] these reports, I just want to draw your attention page five out of five. As of

[14:25] right now through August, our total um police overtime is right at $199,212.93.

[14:34] And again, our budgeted line item for the year was 110. And it's my and I want

[14:39] to say this, it's my understanding that I mean 110 100,000 has kind of been an

[14:45] arbitrary number that we've used for overtime and and if we needed to amend

[14:51] or adjust that number, that's what we would do. Um and we're at a point now

[14:56] where where overtime just has to be slowed down. So that so that's what the

[14:59] report is to show you just kind of some of those um high totals.

[15:20] What is what is your thought on correcting all this all this old time?

[15:27] What what do you think? I mean, you're in the

[15:30] » the mill doing it involve overseeing this. How do you feel you can cut this

[15:37] out? >> We just need more officers. That's in

[15:40] the short in the short answer. We just need more officers.

[15:43] » More officers. >> Yes.

[15:47] » How many do you board do you need? I think fully staffed probably we had I

[15:54] probably need like another nine officer.

[15:58] » You need nine more. >> Yes.

[16:00] » Is what you need. >> And what are you doing to recruit

[16:07] those? >> You have the slots and they're open,

[16:11] » right? >> Uh and you have occupation to fill them,

[16:15] » correct? So, uh, what are you doing to get those slots filled so we can cut out

[16:20] this whole time? >> I would say what I'm doing, but I'll

[16:23] speak for the whole department. U, every officer carries application. We're

[16:28] talking to everybody. Um, I'm at the college three, four times a week.

[16:33] Everybody that I talk to that I feel like is a qualified applicant, I'm

[16:36] trying to get them in. We just got a hit on Indeed.

[16:40] Uh, we we're online and everywhere. We're doing everything we can. Uh, I

[16:45] tell you a story that I told the mayor. I had a guy sold everything. He was

[16:50] ready to go. The ideal officer the county offered him about $3 more

[16:54] dollars. He called and said, "Thank you, but better opportunities." The officers

[16:59] that I did hire when y'all agreed upon the waves, uh, the ones that left is

[17:04] better opportunities, more money, uh, different divisions, they just they said

[17:08] they just wanted to grow their career.

[17:12] Okay.

[17:15] Yeah, overtime was down at one point. I I'll say that we lost officers. They

[17:22] most of most of them left and it wasn't because of the city. It wasn't because

[17:26] of departments. It was they got offered better jobs or better money. What it

[17:32] came down to. >> And when we asked for our raise, we

[17:36] asked for it to be competitive. >> To be more competitive,

[17:40] » right? Have you uh spoken to the mayor about this problem you're having? Have

[17:46] you discussed you you have discussed this with the mayor?

[17:50] » And u

[17:54] given the city's financial uh situation right now,

[18:01] I think a another raise is totally out of question. We need equipment and

[18:05] everything. Uh, I don't want to talk about water and

[18:09] garbage, but I mean, I know in [clears throat] my right mind that I

[18:11] can't come in here and say I need more money for my offices right now.

[18:16] The water, the water department works just as hard as us. The fire department

[18:19] work just as hard as us. Street and sanitation works just as hard as us. We

[18:23] all need more money. The mayor has been on record every meeting.

[18:26] » Every city employee is under paid just doing all we can right now to bring in

[18:31] qualified applicants. And you've discussed this solution with the mayor

[18:36] in in previous meetings, >> correct?

[18:39] » Okay. And [snorts] as a council, as a city

[18:43] council, what do you feel if we can do to help you and the mayor get resolve

[18:49] this problem?

[18:53] » In the short, it it go back to the dollar. That's that's why we can't

[18:57] really retain or get anybody. >> But again, I do understand the city's

[19:01] financial strength. Correct. If we increase the officers, the new new

[19:06] recruits uh bottom line and starting pay, you think that'll help and then

[19:14] more money for the regular hours. You think that?

[19:17] » Sure. Most definitely. >> We cut out this overtime

[19:20] » once we get fully up staff. >> And what amount do you feel necessary

[19:25] that we need to that you negotiated with?

[19:31] That's a great question. Uh, we run towards the bullets. We run

[19:35] towards the chaos. We run towards the fight.

[19:37] » I mean, you need to be competitive. >> That's kind of put a number on that. I

[19:42] mean, I'd say minimum 50,000.

[19:48] » We do the job that I can't. People tell us every day, how do you do it? I

[19:52] couldn't do what you do. We need to seek a solution and we need

[19:57] to find the problem to solve it and uh you need to get with the mayor because

[20:03] we did not know you know what you need and unless you tell us the council

[20:09] itself we were unaware of what

[20:15] your negotiations with the mayor

[20:19] I think I think he's been on record for saying for saying this. I'm not putting

[20:24] the blame game on anybody. But as soon as I said something about raises, I

[20:28] looked around the room. I saw heads going down. I saw faces. I'm not

[20:32] ignorant to the fact of where the city is right now financially.

[20:36] » I understand. No. Right now, I do. But that's part of the reason I hadn't came.

[20:44] I just understand it. >> Mr. St. Columbia. I I I I think we ought

[20:49] to be clear about what the record of this is, the history of it is though. Uh

[20:54] then Chief Bale was at over at the department last spring, maybe last

[20:59] March. He made a whole presentation to this body and his presentation was if

[21:05] you raise the level of the entry level to a certain point, then I can fully

[21:10] staff my department. The concerns then particularly that I had was that if we

[21:15] didn't fully staff, we'd be paying overtime at at a an increased rate. But

[21:20] the proposal was made to us and we gave them what they asked for.

[21:26] We gave it to them. >> Yeah.

[21:27] » So, we didn't hold back. That was the proposal that they made. The only thing

[21:30] we held back on was the uh the high ranking officers and then we did that in

[21:34] February of this year. So,

[21:39] we didn't It's not like we did, we did what we were asked to do.

[21:43] » Yeah. Right. >> Now, in terms of what it takes to keep

[21:46] people in the department, I don't know. Uh uh that'll be u something for the

[21:50] mayor and the chief to resolve, but we've done everything that we've been

[21:54] asked to do in terms of pay with the police department.

[21:56] » Well, you came before us and you asked for more police cars. We gave you

[22:01] correct >> what we could afford to do,

[22:03] » right? And we we're trying to do everything. The council is trying to do

[22:07] everything. >> I appreciate that to help you.

[22:10] » And >> I going I go on the record for saying

[22:12] when we got ours, everybody around us pretty much went up too. So I mean and

[22:18] Chief Bale I go on record for saying this. I mean

[22:21] » I worked under him. He had maybe I say easy I know for sure 10 officers. I

[22:28] promised them they were coming if we got it. Their cities went up. They didn't

[22:31] come. That's why my parenting officers that

[22:35] that stood side by side with me, they didn't get their raise. They waited,

[22:41] I don't know, maybe another eight months before they got their raise. They were

[22:44] training officers, new officers, and they were making more than they were.

[22:49] That's why I asked her and Mary announced, "Let's go back before you

[22:52] guys." I think they stood in the gap long enough. And then I hired

[22:57] X amount of officers. I believe it was 10 at that time. However, they some left

[23:02] just do the better opportunities. >> Well, we want to do everything we can.

[23:07] We as a council want to do everything we can to help you

[23:11] resolve this situation. And you need to get with the mayor and and let make a

[23:17] proposal as to what is necessary and the action we need to take as a

[23:22] council. >> No.

[23:25] » I'm not. If if I may, part of the issue that that you all and I are discussing

[23:29] is actual the the finances of it. Uh when when Chief Bale made his

[23:34] presentation at the time, we were trying to match what other departments making

[23:39] that was about $17 an hour. But when Helen West Holden went up to to $17 an

[23:44] hour, all the other apartments went up above that. And so I just text the

[23:49] mayor, the chief of Forest City, he said them starting Saturday between 38 to 42.

[23:54] Chief of Mariana says their starting salary is $18.35.

[23:58] Uh other cities are saying they're $18. I tested the chief of Augusta. He said

[24:03] their starting salaries now in Woodro County are $20 an hour. And so people

[24:09] are raising their salaries. And that's what the chief was trying to articulate

[24:12] to us is that the salary that we approved last year was to match everyone

[24:16] else and everyone else raised their salaries and we didn't. And that's

[24:21] that's the discussion we are now to Ma's point. Mel did say and and he to remind

[24:26] everyone of it. This is a cycle until you get to full capacity that we're

[24:30] going to continue to have overtime. It's we have to get to to full capacity. And

[24:36] this is Mr. Ethley's concerns. He said he can articulate better than me. He

[24:39] stated it before >> is that uh if we're not at the full

[24:43] capacity, you're going to continue to have overtime, overtime, overtime,

[24:47] overtime. You end up spending the money. this meeting though. I think we're

[24:50] talking about in a little yesterday. >> Yeah. Yeah.

[24:53] » And like I said, we did meet with the officer yesterday.

[24:58] » Money came up three, four times. >> I heard something about safety

[25:04] 50 times during that meeting. >> In our current schedule, six days out of

[25:09] the week, it'll be two officers working at all times. That's what I heard.

[25:12] That's those are the facts and that's what they were voicing. Uh, I put that

[25:18] in my email when uh I was talking to the mayor, expressing my concerns.

[25:23] We still went with the schedule. I had a meeting with them last Saturday and let

[25:27] them know. This is the new schedule and everything. Uh,

[25:32] I worked out there. One officer, two officers become one very fast.

[25:38] I know from yesterday I had a domestic, I went to a fight, I had a hit and run.

[25:43] I worked all that within an hour and a half by myself.

[25:48] I I don't say I was scared, but I was cautious. My adrenaline was pumping.

[25:53] » So I I get what they feel and I understand the mayor's perspective, too.

[25:57] Like we got to be better stewards of our money.

[25:59] » I get I think and I'm definitely hearing and I respect what you're saying. I

[26:03] think the thing that was kind of a concern is and this it this could be

[26:07] completely perceived. just not necessarily was was you know as as a

[26:13] city are we being held hostage because officers doing overtime and it's like

[26:20] that's just not responsible and I'm not saying necessarily that's what happened

[26:24] but that was a perception >> and and and so in a situation like that

[26:29] I think those things need to be communicated. I don't think I don't

[26:32] think there's anybody that's sitting here at this table that's not expecting

[26:36] that police officer gonna get overtime. At least I wasn't. I was never in my

[26:40] mind thought that we would not pay overtime. I knew that that was going to

[26:44] happen. But on the same token, it's like you got to also get a get a handle. I

[26:49] mean, I'm sure you probably looked at some of these numbers. Some of these

[26:52] people's overtime is better than some people's checks, regular day checks. I

[26:55] mean, you know, and I know that's all that's, you know, you're comparing maybe

[26:59] apples to oranges, but but but the but the thing is, you know, just guys, get

[27:05] it. Let's get the overtime down. Let's cut the hours back some we can all work

[27:10] together on this. That I think at least that's where I'm coming.

[27:14] » I can get you all information because I'm going to say it because I know it to

[27:18] be true. But uh

[27:21] we asked them to do a job and I asked them to stop waiting on a call to go

[27:27] find it. I'mma wholeheartedly say that every

[27:32] diamond of that overtime was justified. How many operations have we worked with

[27:36] the FBI, DTL, DTF, DEA? We're working side by side and those are hours. And

[27:44] I've I've counted where they've called me like, "Yeah, we're not on the clock,

[27:48] but we're going to go do this with ATF. We're going to go do this with that with

[27:52] this entity." The number of operations that we have

[27:57] done this year that probably been more than the past 10 years.

[28:01] » So, it's being accounted for. I mean, and that's going to slow down. I

[28:07] mean, it is what it is. We're asking my investigators to work patrol right now.

[28:11] That's what we're doing. My three investigators are assigned to patrol.

[28:15] When we get cases, they're working full-time patrol. It's

[28:20] going to take a minute for them to investigate. Going to take a minute to

[28:22] get case files in. We're asking them to essentially do both. But our call volume

[28:28] is high. It is. I'm going to say it how it is. Our call volume is high. I ask

[28:33] the citizens now, please, I apologize in advance. Please try to be respectful to

[28:38] my officers, but with two officers working, there's going to be some late

[28:42] response time and our training. If there's if there's

[28:47] a domestic, we're both foreign to it. If it's just two of us. Sorry, ma'am. I'm

[28:52] sorry if you had a hit and run, but we have to prioritize what we're doing.

[28:58] I mean, we I'm looking at I'm looking in in the future like

[29:04] what's to come with two officers working

[29:10] » money. I get the money. I do get it. I promise. I hound on about. Do we have a

[29:16] comparison from this time last year to look at?

[29:20] » Um I think I think that's a quick email to the uh treasurer to get that. Sure,

[29:25] we can. It's Yeah, I'd be interested just to see. I mean, because if

[29:31] what the from January,

[29:35] » we get the good job after the FBI comes in and we do indictments with them. We

[29:41] get the good job after we do X, Y, and Z, after we work with the state police.

[29:48] It's awesome. The DT the DTF right now have been

[29:54] working with my investigator since they have to work fulltime

[29:58] control. Now they're not threatening but he's talking

[30:02] about sending a bill to the city. They wasted hours. We use their buy money

[30:08] because I don't want to come to the city for it. We use all their resources and

[30:12] it's really thrown out. It's in the garbage right now. My investigators are

[30:16] working patrol and while she was working most times I

[30:21] don't know when they're going to do X Y and Z.

[30:26] One of the concerns that I have and I understand everything that you're saying

[30:31] and I empathize with everything that you've said regarding your officers and

[30:37] how they feel and their safety and all that. I truly do.

[30:42] I do have an issue though with how this was handled.

[30:49] I'll just be very frank. Um when you said that

[30:55] uh let's see the officers there was an officer who came who was not scheduled.

[31:01] He was on vacation. And you said there were two others who

[31:06] they were or were not? >> They were on schedule.

[31:08] » They were on schedule. To me,

[31:13] we should have had this conversation before that.

[31:18] If the officers were not happy, concerned, didn't feel safe, whatever

[31:25] the issues are, which are all valid, it would have been better to call a meeting

[31:30] prior to what happened yesterday because that was very concerning for the

[31:36] community at large. You know what I mean?

[31:42] » That that's all.

[31:53] One of the things I want to remind you all that if you're over overtime, you

[31:55] need to consider the the appropriation for the overtime. Uh you all still need

[31:59] to consider that uh because we need to maintain u authorization for

[32:05] overtime. And I say this to everybody at the

[32:08] table. I was I came in 2 minutes late because I received a phone call from an

[32:13] agent, an investigative agency and what they asked me to tell the body, tell the

[32:19] mayor and everyone. I just got it right before I came in. Consider also altering

[32:24] to allow the investigation to go on. There have been more felony cases filed

[32:28] this year than in any year in the past. And with officers working the streets,

[32:34] they either need the agency to hire additional people or allow overtime for

[32:41] the the criminal investigation division so that they can continue with this

[32:45] because some of the investigations they said to me to tell you all that some of

[32:48] the investigation they've been doing since January and they made a lot of

[32:52] leeway with them, but they are going to slow down the impact to little or none

[32:57] if C cannot continue to do what they're with the other agencies.

[33:03] They didn't want the agencies to be mentioned, but they wanted to make sure

[33:06] that there's multiple agencies that are working with the police department.

[33:11] And to that and to that point, thank you, attorney. To that point, that's the

[33:15] point or that's the purpose of an overtime approval form. Um, it's not

[33:20] that there is no more overtime. Realistically, we cannot cap overtime

[33:25] for and this is not the fire department also had a similar conversation as well

[33:28] given their overtime totals. We cannot say that between today, September 8th

[33:34] and December 31st, there will not be another emergency or issue where

[33:38] overtime has to be used. Um, thus the best fix that I um put together was a an

[33:44] approval form so that anything that does get approved in the event that we have

[33:49] to continue investigations is specific. It's not a daily schedule where you

[33:54] accumulate this over time just I don't say just because um but ju you

[33:59] accumulate that daily that we can sustain that. So there are pathways to

[34:03] make sure that those conversations continue and that will be through an

[34:07] approval form that goes to the administrative office. So um overtime

[34:12] just in case anybody's leaving the table saying well there's no more overtime

[34:15] that's not it's it's got to be approved now. That's where we That's where it is.

[34:31] » What are you asking us to do? >> Well, so when I had the meeting, I'm not

[34:37] I don't necessarily haven't asked um particularly. I did tell the department

[34:42] yesterday that I was going to get to work by trying to figure out if you all

[34:46] had any extra thoughts around maybe a specific aotment overtime throughout the

[34:51] rest of this year. Um any other solutions that you all probably would be

[34:56] okay with or consider and um I think this was more of a of a cause to have a

[35:02] conversation around just what happened yesterday, the fact that there is a

[35:06] schedule change. And so I am asking um are there thoughts around I mean my my

[35:12] suggestion is the overtime approval fall. So can't can't realistically say

[35:16] there is no more but it has to be monitored because we're already pretty

[35:21] much close to 200% or 100% of what we allotted for. Um [clears throat] so

[35:26] that's one measure that I put in place but I'm interested to hear if you all

[35:30] have any other things that will create a happy medium for the situation with it.

[35:35] Well, approval of overtime certainly is in your backyard. That's a day-to-day

[35:39] operation. So, you you have the authority to approve it or not approve

[35:43] it. At this point, the ship is sailed on approval for additional overtime because

[35:46] they're they've doubled it up at this part of the year. So, my suggestion

[35:50] would be to just wait and clean it up at the end of the year because we don't

[35:53] know what it's going to be going forward. Um I I think everybody here

[35:57] would agree to do that. They've already been paid for the time that they worked

[36:00] and at this point it's over 200,000. Uh, based on what I'm looking at, I know

[36:04] this reporting period ends in August, but we're in September now, so we know

[36:07] it's over 200,000. Um, so I guess going forward, my request is that we control

[36:14] it and keep it at a level that it has to be. I understand what Mr. Val is saying,

[36:19] city attorney, about ongoing investigations. I certainly wouldn't

[36:21] want to hamper any of those and what they have going on. Uh but uh anything

[36:27] that's excessive and not needed has to be

[36:32] cut out. Um the overtime during this period last year is probably lower

[36:37] because the the increase pay didn't start until

[36:42] I want to say it was sometime in in the summer. So just by sheer numbers, it's

[36:47] going to be lower. I don't know uh personally what it is, but it's going to

[36:51] be lower. And then they brought on a lot of new officers after we increased the

[36:54] base pay. So the this the staff level was was higher. All that being said,

[37:00] this is yeah, I'm not often at a loss for words, but when I read this report,

[37:04] I'll just say it was disheartening. Uh because

[37:08] it this this hurts us as a whole. I mean, this is that's a lot. it it sets

[37:15] us back in terms of what I would hope our goals are in terms of

[37:20] managing our our finances at this point. And so, um, I would just encourage the

[37:26] department by through Chief Sanders and mayor to have to find a way. We have to

[37:32] find a way. Um, I have some other thoughts that I don't think should be

[37:37] shared at this table. Um, but that's kind of it.

[37:43] would you be so kind to share with the officers to let them know their value to

[37:48] us? I know that sometimes whenever you start having conversations about money,

[37:52] it the the >> this isn't about money.

[37:55] » No, no, but listen, but in a way it is. And I'll tell you why. Because when it

[38:00] when you say when you tell someone, hey, uh you're not going to be allowed to

[38:04] accumulate overtime. and this this employee cuz I've dealt with

[38:10] with my employees and they're saying but I'm I'm doing my job. Are you saying

[38:14] that my job is not valuable? And that's where the question value is. And so if

[38:19] there is a conversation, it's just a dollars and cents thing. It has nothing

[38:23] to do with their value because because what they do and what this what the

[38:28] police uh department does for us is extreme value. It's of high value. So I

[38:33] don't I just don't want them to process that like this is a personal attack on

[38:37] us and them to perceive that we're saying what they're doing is not

[38:40] important because it's extremely important. The case in fact is important

[38:43] is that we're having a meeting today because we were concerned about the

[38:46] safety. So, so if you know if they can work you know with the mayor and his

[38:52] mayor uh puts those you know those safeguards in place on what you know on

[38:58] what he considers to be of um of of a right you know budget then just work

[39:05] work with him as much as you can. >> I'll go on record one more time. I know

[39:10] the narrative is out there. Every officer that I've talked to, they

[39:14] hadn't said one word to me about money or overtime.

[39:18] » Yes, sir. >> They said that it's going to be two of

[39:20] us out here. That's what they told us. >> Yes, sir.

[39:22] » Now, that's just what they told me. I don't

[39:26] know. >> Okay.

[39:27] » How the other narrative got out there. >> I I haven't heard the other narrative. I

[39:31] I'm just going from my own personal experience of of having staff. And when

[39:35] you start talking about cut cutting pay or cutting overtime, people perceive it

[39:40] like you have. Oh, so you're saying I'm not valuable and that's good. We we know

[39:44] the police department's right. We can't do anything without the police

[39:48] department, which you know, we just want to convey that if there's conversations

[39:52] about cutting overtime, it's not it's not an attack on your value. It's we're

[39:57] just basically trying to watch our budget. So

[40:01] that's awesome. We appreciate y'all.

[40:05] » I mean, I would think that I mean, mayor, correct me if I'm wrong. I mean,

[40:10] I would think that because I understand if you've only got two officers and

[40:14] you've got a situation where officer has to take or escort a family to the

[40:19] hospital because there's been something happened, but then you've got the other

[40:22] officer who's still on the scene. I mean, I would think that there would be

[40:26] some sort of um

[40:30] understanding or may maybe the mayor could approve having another officer

[40:36] come in so that the safety is assured or at least helped a little bit. I mean, is

[40:42] that going to be part of it or >> That's going to be part of it. And I was

[40:45] waiting for this meeting to see if there were any outstanding ideas or solutions

[40:49] from this body. But um one of the officers I think I think one of the

[40:53] officers yesterday asked you know if I'm physically in a fight am I supposed to

[40:57] stop to call the chief who then is supposed to call you?

[41:00] » So it's like obviously that's not going to be feasible. Um so the best and

[41:06] smoothest way to do overtime approvals will be to give guidelines on what will

[41:11] qualify. um the 8 hour schedules in my opinion should stay because it's not

[41:17] sustainable and I think the way that we can show that we're trying to work with

[41:20] the department is making those sustain or not sustainable but making those

[41:24] understandings clear in these scenarios. >> Yeah, make make the judgment call.

[41:31] » There's no big exception there. There's going to be exceptions. There's going to

[41:34] be times going to have to happen with trying to w

[41:39] uh M the treasur Mr. Turner has emailed all of us while we're sitting here.

[41:43] » Okay. >> Uh over time through this through the

[41:46] same period last year was $157,21.34.

[41:51] And again, most of the the um the year was at the reduced reduced pay level. So

[41:56] I don't know proportionally if it's the same or not, but

[42:00] » numerically it's it's uh about $43,000 left.

[42:05] » There are two or three financial things for you all to consider. one, it appears

[42:09] that almost everybody on here is making $1923 an hour. Uh the overtime rate is

[42:14] $28.85 and looking at it and that it appears that they do testing and

[42:20] promotion. We haven't done any testing and promotion to move people up so you

[42:25] can hire other people. Uh and so all those are financial considerations that

[42:29] you going forward as relates to day-to-day. The mayor is responsible for

[42:32] day-to-day. I just want you all to keep in mind that you have to look strongly

[42:36] at your budget because you need to hire additional people and promote people. Uh

[42:42] but your starting wage is 1923 according to these calculations.

[42:46] » It's competitive. >> That's certified. I mean uncertified was

[42:50] mostly what we're going to get is 1682. Right. So you still have a competitive

[42:55] wage 1923. >> Yeah.

[43:00] What starting teacher was? >> Sir,

[43:03] » it's about what a starting teacher would.

[43:06] » We ain't You said starting teacher. >> Well, not Well, it depends on which

[43:10] district. >> We ain't babysitting kids. I just want

[43:12] to go on record. >> No. And I understand. I understand.

[43:16] » I I get that. I get that, Miss. >> I get that. I do. I ask I go home to

[43:21] educate every day. in this day stream.

[43:27] But yeah, so yes, which is I was just doing a compare which I know you should

[43:33] never do that. I was just comparing another probably

[43:37] » another I was comparing another professional, you know, group to another

[43:41] which I know you probably shouldn't do.

[43:48] I'd also like to encourage you um and it was something that I really myself

[43:54] didn't care for either, but when I worked for I was a traveling speech

[43:59] pathologist and I used to get speech pathology services go going in nursing

[44:06] homes and things like that and we were required to do time studies and they're

[44:11] a pain. I mean, they really are. But it may help you a little bit, you know, in

[44:17] your scheduling process because they're probably peak, not always because you're

[44:23] going to have crisis happen on different days and be different times of the night

[44:26] or whatever, but there's certain maybe peak days maybe uh peak periods during

[44:34] the week, peak time at night, maybe I don't know,

[44:38] » peak time like the summertime typically peak

[44:42] RP holiday season for us >> and holiday is special.

[44:49] » I have just general question for the the mayor and the chief. Uh the the issue is

[44:55] we we you informed the body as to the issue and the city council is only in

[44:59] charge of finances and real property. Are you do you have a financial action

[45:05] asking the city or you're just the city council? You all are just making a

[45:08] presentation. I don't have a in this meeting. I knew

[45:13] what it was about. So >> I think Dr. Miller and I mutually kind

[45:17] of simultaneously I sent an email before I checked my email and um one I think

[45:23] his was concern and mine was also for just acknowledgement of the fact that

[45:27] there was someies yesterday. So there's no ask other other than if and I think

[45:32] has been answered that there was um alternative ways to consider.

[45:36] » Yes sir. >> I thought I thought the I guess the

[45:41] unspoken agreement was that you would manage overtime

[45:45] » and then we'll clean it up at the end of the year because we don't know what's

[45:48] going to happen the rest of the year. So that that's I think that's

[45:53] » just any other discussion on on the matter at

[45:58] all. >> No.

[46:01] Do >> uh I do have u do you have any uh

[46:05] recruits or do you have anyone in the academy right now?

[46:08] » I have one in the academy right now. >> You have one?

[46:10] » Yes. >> And when will he be out of the academy?

[46:14] » He will be out at the end of November. I believe it's right before

[46:18] Thanksgiving. Do they have any commitment to stay?

[46:21] » Say again. >> Do they have any commitment to stay

[46:23] after they finish? >> No, they do not.

[46:26] » No, but if they leave within a certain time period, the state law authorizes us

[46:30] to write letters to the other department that they're hired from to reimburse us

[46:34] a portion of the expenses that the city spent.

[46:38] » Are we following up on that? >> We do it very in Arkansas. We can't get

[46:42] anything out of state. Okay. Right.

[46:50] Are we utilizing uh do we have very many part-time officers?

[46:54] » One.

[46:59] » How many how many part-time officers? >> We have one part-time officer.

[47:03] » One. >> He's been there 50 years and he been

[47:06] there 40 years. 50, right?

[47:16] I mean, is that a consideration? Maybe use part-time officers to kind of fill

[47:21] in some gaps that may >> 100%. The last time I checked, I

[47:24] parttime officers make 1150. >> They said I thought I was told I'm not

[47:29] running towards the ballistic for 1150. >> And I guess to that end, that's

[47:34] something that we could have discussed, you know, before. Now,

[47:37] » I brought that up. >> Well, there's been no proposal made. I

[47:41] missed that. I don't and I don't I don't remember that but I mean if we fixed it

[47:46] » when you were pro Tim you asked me about part time

[47:49] » man I that's I did a whole lot of >> Did you get a salary for part

[47:53] » did you give a a proposed salary for part time I don't remember

[47:56] » I didn't I was still fighting for my officers that would get paid 1450

[48:00] » I understand well maybe it might be something we re

[48:03] we revisit so

[48:10] » any other discussion

[48:14] Not I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. So move

[48:17] » second being ajourned. Thank you all. Thank you chief

City of HWH's Special Call Meeting 9/8/26

Transcript