[0:00] We have two items.

[0:02] No. Well.

[0:04] I have a hearing, a continued item, and then.

[0:07] Approval of minutes.

[0:09] And if it's OK with my fellow commissioners, I just want to check on minutes. So that's really easy.

[0:16] Time any of the minutes.

[0:20] From 555-1962 or 616, did anyone see anything that looked like it needed correction?

[0:29] I did not.

[0:31] All right, so we can just.

[0:33] Swiftly moved through that as we draw to the end of tonight's official.

[0:38] Meeting and now we can start with our public hearing.

[0:44] Item.

[0:45] What the work meeting?

[0:47] Yeah, I'm not opening the public hearing. I'm just saying the first item we have as a public hearing and it's the conditional use

[0:51] permit for.

[0:54] Andrus accessory building footprint side.

[0:59] Size, not side.

[1:06] OK, first item.

[1:08] These are.

[1:10] Pretty typical applications that we've seen with.

[1:14] An additional size than what is permitted.

[1:17] And the applicant has a pretty thorough narrative.

[1:21] Landscaping plan.

[1:23] They're meeting all the setbacks for accessory buildings and I think the increase in size was around.

[1:30] 1400 square feet over the permitted size.

[1:34] And they've also provided.

[1:37] Mitigation measures, including some additional details about the building height and architecture.

[1:44] And some plans there so that.

[1:48] They're really approaching it.

[1:49] From kind of that mitigation?

[1:52] Strategy. So they're outlying.

[1:54] Or laying out all of those mitigation strategies up front.

[1:59] And essentially, staff recommends.

[2:02] All of the mitigation strategies that they've.

[2:05] Put forth as being appropriate.

[2:08] For the size of the structure and the location of it.

[2:11] It is set further back, so it's beyond what the.

[2:15] Standard accessory building setbacks would be on the rear side of the property.

[2:19] And then it matches the.

[2:22] Required accessory building set back on the.

[2:25] Side.

[2:28] Do we have that questions on it? Can you scroll to the visual on the packet? I'm trying to remember when I read through it.

[2:34] If the outline where it was on the property.

[2:39] It's in the South.

[2:43] Yeah. So if we're looking at the parcel, it's over on.

[2:47] This side.

[2:50] Which would be kind of the North.

[2:53] West Side.

[2:57] So it's up against.

[2:58] Neighbors, backyards and not.

[3:00] Anywhere near a Cottonwood lane, right?

[3:02] Right.

[3:04] Let me get.

[3:08] Footprint.

[3:14] It's a lot of hard skin.

[3:19] I hope you know someone in the stone Mason industry.

[3:27] OK, so proposed barn back here at 2655.

[3:32] Square feet.

[3:34] There are a couple of other accessory buildings on here there within the permitted size, so we don't have the additional review

[3:37] for those.

[3:42] I know some of the neighbors comments or neighbors that I have.

[3:46] Taken some questions for on this after they were sent the notices.

[3:50] Is generally where is this going to be located? So site plan does answer that kind of question for them.

[3:56] And then confusion about some of the other structures that are.

[4:00] Under construction on the property already.

[4:03] Conversations I've had.

[4:05] Just explained there's.

[4:06] Another accessory structure on this side.

[4:09] That's within permitted.

[4:11] Size and then another accessory structure here.

[4:14] So if there are neighbors that attend tonight, they may.

[4:19] Talk about some of the additional accessory structures that are already.

[4:22] Being constructed, that would be.

[4:24] Referencing these two.

[4:26] This current 1 is not under construction at all yet because it has not been permitted so.

[4:33] Well, you're probably asking a question. I'm thinking so.

[4:36] When we get.

[4:37] All the square footage of all the structures.

[4:40] It's within that 30.

[4:43] Yeah, OK.

[4:46] It was 25 with a 10% bonus for.

[4:49] Being good, I think.

[4:51] Yeah, so.

[4:53] Yeah, their structure total.

[4:56] Yeah, because they have such a large lot.

[5:00] Your your structure square footage.

[5:02] Gets quite high even though it is only 25%.

[5:07] But they're with this building being added there within their.

[5:11] Their structure.

[5:13] Coverage allowed.

[5:15] What are the height restrict I? When I see the words barn you know that conjures images in my head of.

[5:21] Very tall.

[5:22] Amish community structures thrown up in a day like.

[5:26] How? What is the height?

[5:28] That's going to be on this.

[5:29] Yeah, height limit is still our standard 20 foot.

[5:33] Height for accessory buildings OK.

[5:36] So short barn.

[5:37] Yes, OK. Yeah. And that's the highest point, so.

[5:41] It's likely then if they have any sort of pitched.

[5:44] Roof on that that it will go.

[5:47] Down more where it connects to the walls.

[5:50] And on the infographic that we have in front of us where it delineates the arborvitaes and.

[5:56] Their tree layout.

[5:58] There's like an overlay of what looks like.

[6:01] Someone else's house under that is that.

[6:04] Just on this part here.

[6:08] I think that it's.

[6:10] Potentially.

[6:11] Old satellite imagery and.

[6:14] It's. I don't think that there's a structured there.

[6:18] At all.

[6:19] I can pull up the.

[6:21] Current satellite.

[6:24] I mean, that's pretty.

[6:26] It is very that deserves a barn. I'd say yes to a barn in that.

[6:30] Yeah, I'll, I'll look at it and see.

[6:33] Just hope that there's some clarification on that.

[6:35] While you're looking, Carrie I.

[6:38] I didn't see any.

[6:40] Renderings of what the barn would look like. Is that because that won't.

[6:44] Come to us until.

[6:46] Plans or will we not even see it once we've approved this?

[6:51] Right, so.

[6:52] We're looking at.

[6:55] The impacts from the footprint essentially so where the building's located.

[7:01] The increased size is.

[7:04] Is what you're looking at.

[7:05] There's not a lot of.

[7:07] I guess there's not anything in our ordinance that.

[7:10] UM considers architecture specifically.

[7:16] The applicant did detail some of their.

[7:19] Architectural plans or blending to make sure that it's.

[7:23] It's the view of it is.

[7:27] Blends more with the surrounding properties and the.

[7:30] So that it's not visible necessarily from the street.

[7:32] But that's not.

[7:33] Usually something that.

[7:35] We take into consideration but.

[7:38] You can, right? But do we get to see it?

[7:40] Because I didn't see that.

[7:41] In the no.

[7:44] OK. All right.

[7:45] Now, I mean, we're now moving into curiosity, but that's that's my prerogative is to.

[7:50] Be curious so.

[7:52] And what is the?

[7:55] Set back the minimum. Set back that the proposed barn has from the property line there in the corner. Do we know how?

[8:03] For that is.

[8:04] Yeah, so.

[8:06] The required set back is 15 feet, so that's.

[8:09] You can see this 15 foot line here.

[8:12] So they're literally on the line.

[8:15] One corner of it is on the 15 foot line.

[8:18] And then because of how it's angled.

[8:20] It's set back further, so this one is.

[8:23] 26.

[8:26] 26 feet 4 inches is where this line comes in.

[8:30] That would be the standard set back for a primary structure.

[8:36] So there.

[8:37] They have this.

[8:39] Section that is outside of.

[8:43] Where a primary structure set back would be.

[8:47] Direction.

[8:50] Sorry, we're just looking at it.

[8:55] OK. And then?

[8:56] The neighbors property it looks like is a tennis court back there.

[9:01] Yeah.

[9:02] OK.

[9:05] Other questions on this one?

[9:07] So have.

[9:08] I mean, I guess.

[9:11] I've been here long enough.

[9:13] It hasn't been, it hasn't come in front of us in the last.

[9:16] Six months.

[9:17] Anything on this property has nothing.

[9:20] Has this not come in front of the Planning Commission till now?

[9:24] Uh, no, it's not. So the only reason it's here is because the barn is.

[9:28] 1400 square feet bigger.

[9:30] Right. Yep. So because it's that bigger size that puts it into the conditional use permit?

[9:37] And if it wasn't for that, it wouldn't be in.

[9:39] Front of us at all, right?

[9:41] And it'd still be the.

[9:42] Same setbacks and height restriction.

[9:44] Right.

[9:50] Yeah. And looking at the aerial view of the neighboring property, it looks like.

[9:55] That what you're seeing there was potentially landscaping or other elements from before.

[10:01] The house that was here was.

[10:03] Demolished.

[10:05] There was.

[10:07] I think some.

[10:08] Lot line adjustments are creating this new lot over here.

[10:11] I'm not sure when this house was built, but it's.

[10:15] Probably just some residual former.

[10:19] Satellite imagery, that's.

[10:20] Used as their base.

[10:21] Was that a putting green in the middle of the backyard?

[10:26] Never mind.

[10:28] So that original zigzag?

[10:31] Property line has been replaced with the straight line that's before us, right?

[10:35] Right.

[10:46] I mean I.

[10:46] Just want to see renderings of the house. It looks like it's going to have some pretty wings on it.

[10:54] OK. Any other questions?

[10:57] Looks like they're going with an all Evergreen approach.

[11:06] MMM.

[11:09] Preparing for wildfires, I think.

[11:14] Pray for no east winds.

[11:16] Don't forget to water in the winter.

[11:21] In the absence of rainfall. All right. Well, if there's no further on that one, let's move to the text amendment that was

[11:27] continued from last time regarding the arts and culture land uses within the Holiday Village zone.

[11:35] Thank you, Chair. I have this item for you. First off, I think.

[11:39] Can I answer any questions you might have or anything that's come to mind since your previous?

[11:44] Shot at looking at this.

[11:47] So I had a chance to go by Steinway Pianos.

[11:51] And look at the space that they've been utilizing.

[11:54] For.

[11:55] Recitals.

[11:57] And the.

[11:59] Potential of how this?

[12:00] Ordinance would tie into that.

[12:04] I love the way.

[12:05] It lays out and sounds.

[12:07] In theory and on paper, my only concerns around it are what does that open up the door to down the road could potentially.

[12:16] Steinway cell to a pub and ale house and now we have a balcony where people are.

[12:22] Getting tossed at night.

[12:24] Well, that could happen at Mint.

[12:26] What's that?

[12:27] That could already happen at Mint.

[12:28] Sushi.

[12:33] But I just mean for as far as the accessory uses go.

[12:36] Yeah, so.

[12:38] The way that I've tried to approach the amendment is.

[12:42] To create.

[12:44] 2 new land use definitions in a.

[12:47] And the only one that would be allowed for the village is this idea of the low intensity type.

[12:56] Um, the the arts.

[12:58] That they're being displayed or shown.

[13:00] Are not necessarily a for sale situation.

[13:04] It would be a gallery.

[13:06] And then the performing arts that are being proposed would be off hours.

[13:11] And limited to a maximum number of individuals or attendees.

[13:16] We can get into some discussion on that.

[13:19] Later in the meeting.

[13:20] But reviewing those concepts with both the applicant and our.

[13:25] City liaison to the arts and culture.

[13:30] Committee. Umm.

[13:32] Um, they both believe that that is small enough to help.

[13:36] Them bolster their own retail and the use of the space to begin with.

[13:42] But also may not be big enough to help.

[13:45] Other spaces activate.

[13:48] What they might have.

[13:49] Later, late after hours.

[13:52] And that's a delicate balance.

[13:54] And I think that's primarily what we're asking the Planning Commission to look at.

[13:57] How it's being proposed? How do you balance this intensity of a village?

[14:01] Activating.

[14:03] After hours.

[14:05] Sort of a, for lack of better term, a nightlife.

[14:08] While using.

[14:10] The goals of the general plan to say reboot.

[14:13] The community? Really.

[14:14] Wants it encourages arts.

[14:16] To occur in the village.

[14:19] But how do we?

[14:19] How do we go about that?

[14:23] So the two of the two uses, the low intensity is the only one that's being proposed in the village. The higher intensity I think

[14:27] is where.

[14:31] You might be coming from Chair Roach is.

[14:35] A live entertainment that might be.

[14:37] Rating during pub hours, Restaurant hours.

[14:41] There could be anything from theatrical.

[14:44] Acts to, Comedy to.

[14:46] You know, whatever it might be.

[14:48] Those types of uses.

[14:50] Are defined in this amendment, but not.

[14:52] He implemented in the.

[14:54] Village they could be used in like other commercial.

[14:58] Zones in the city, yeah.

[14:59] Where it would be appropriate?

[15:01] Like for example the holiday crossroads zone where you have already have that intense.

[15:07] Retail use that could absorb that.

[15:11] Type of market activity.

[15:14] So.

[15:16] Is there and I guess.

[15:18] Really what I'm just concerned about is like, I'm all for the arts, don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to play through the.

[15:24] Do we have the guardrails in place for what this potentially could open up? Because in my mind, you know, doomsday scenario guy

[15:28] over here, things like.

[15:32] Do we now have death metal being played off of the roof of the Steinway Gallery, should it ever go that direction for some reason,

[15:37] Yeah.

[15:43] That's that's a good thought. I mean, right now every.

[15:47] Use in the village, for example.

[15:52] Granados, they have jazz.

[15:54] The Live Jazz.

[15:56] Can't control necessarily the type of music that's being played, but we do have noise ordinances that.

[16:03] We review.

[16:04] Consistently with that, use.

[16:06] And refer back to.

[16:08] So if they were to play on the roof.

[16:10] For example, we would refer back to our existing noise orders to see if it's violating.

[16:14] That level of of sound.

[16:20] And also I think it really will come down to.

[16:23] How you know?

[16:24] You define and if you're OK with.

[16:28] The definition of the performing arts, you know, is that something that's tied directly to the primary use that's there?

[16:35] For example.

[16:36] Classical Piano.

[16:39] That's pretty.

[16:40] Restrictive for that use could because I don't have any other.

[16:43] Classical Piano.

[16:45] Business, you know, type of retailers in the village.

[16:48] To relate that to.

[16:52] So the type of performing arts I think is important for us to get the get the Planning Commission's recommendation on an opinion.

[16:59] So that we understand that it also meets the needs of the the retailer, but it also is low intensity enough that it doesn't

[17:03] disrupt the rest of the community.

[17:08] Question. Sorry, question.

[17:12] I think this is a great.

[17:13] It's complementary to.

[17:15] The District.

[17:17] The one question I have is similar to what Dennis was talking about, Chair was talking about.

[17:21] The guardrails.

[17:23] Let's say this is in the code.

[17:25] So it's allowed.

[17:26] What are the parameters by which they can do these things I mean?

[17:31] Parking.

[17:33] I know these are.

[17:34] Probably not as frequent as obviously the daytime user, but.

[17:39] Plus the noise. I mean, there's no use permit.

[17:43] The conditional use permit that they.

[17:46] No, would be.

[17:48] Rescinded to.

[17:49] Take away the use if they violate that.

[17:52] I mean, to me I appreciate the notion of trying to implement something like this, but I think.

[17:57] Does have to?

[17:58] Kind of consider all of the aspects.

[18:02] Of what?

[18:02] Is considered Fine Arts.

[18:05] I mean the Steinway.

[18:08] Is a great use, but I think it's a little misleading because I think it's ideal.

[18:13] But once the parking starts to exceed that.

[18:18] How do we?

[18:19] I guess we're trying to find.

[18:20] Trying to find that same question answer as well, but.

[18:24] But the chair was.

[18:25] So I in contemplating parking.

[18:28] In order to keep it.

[18:30] Complementary to what the primary use is.

[18:33] That secondary use.

[18:35] Whatever the arts.

[18:37] Use might be gallery or.

[18:38] Live performances.

[18:40] By definition.

[18:42] Are maybe Carrie, could you bring up page?

[18:46] 23.

[18:49] I mean, let's say they have a concert in the middle of the day.

[18:52] Because I think we may be considering it.

[18:54] Can't do it.

[18:56] So what if it's on? What if they want to do it like a holiday concert? Then I would have a Co enforcement officer showing up and

[19:00] saying you have to be off hours of your primary.

[19:05] I'm pitching a Cree.

[19:06] Christmas recital with.

[19:08] 60 students and all the parents and all their grandchildren.

[19:13] Parents, I mean, it does say no more than 50 attendees. So if we think that's reasonable, it's in there.

[19:18] But we could play with it, yeah. So if you'd Scroll down to line 19 through 25.

[19:24] Those questions you have in your mind.

[19:26] Reading through this.

[19:27] If they're not answered by.

[19:29] What? What is pre proposed here? We can look at something else.

[19:32] And if that has to be conditional, use.

[19:35] We'll bring him in.

[19:36] And we'll grill them on parking. We'll grow them on.

[19:39] Noise. Umm.

[19:40] What the type of music you're going to be playing.

[19:43] I mean you can apply conditions that way.

[19:45] I think what you're hoping for is this becomes popular, but then it starts to go against your guardrail of 50 people.

[19:53] And they want to get 100 people and just.

[19:56] Because so many people want to see these things.

[19:58] But, well, it's really easy to.

[20:01] When they come in for their business licensing.

[20:04] Uh, to show them this standard and say you're maxed out at 50?

[20:08] Your first violation will be a land use violation.

[20:11] And we'll resend your business license.

[20:14] One last question, do you?

[20:15] We'll have the building official look at the occupancy.

[20:19] In addition to the building permit or the business license, so they.

[20:24] That can be probably a stronger.

[20:26] Mechanism to.

[20:28] Keep the number.

[20:30] That in the fire department, I guess it would be. It's from the fire department, OK.

[20:34] And that would be one of the comments you'll probably hear tonight from the applicant.

[20:39] 50 is a great starting point, but.

[20:41] Our our occupancy load is X.

[20:45] It's more than.

[20:47] Could it be determined?

[20:48] Struck as rather than a set number.

[20:51] Be based upon the occupancy rate of building.

[20:54] Which I'm.

[20:55] Have no issue with.

[20:56] What if somebody comes in with a new business and.

[20:59] Has a bigger space.

[21:01] And then suddenly the need to.

[21:04] I'll, you know, change this.

[21:06] Comes back to us, so consider the spaces for example.

[21:10] Harmons or.

[21:12] The office building.

[21:13] That's just down the street.

[21:16] They have considerable larger.

[21:18] Occupancy levels.

[21:20] So if that might be.

[21:22] The the notion for keeping it at a number.

[21:25] Rather than occupancy.

[21:28] I I've got a question related to the.

[21:32] The page on the screen.

[21:35] Lines 16 and 17.

[21:37] Commercial establishment were an art or activity is taught, practiced, or studied.

[21:41] So on and so forth.

[21:43] So.

[21:45] What? How do we?

[21:47] Prevent tattoo classes.

[21:50] And a large tattoo studio.

[21:55] It can be.

[21:57] Very artistic.

[21:58] Artistic.

[22:00] Is that something that holiday?

[22:02] Wishes to entertain and I realized I should have looked at the big table but.

[22:06] It was very large and I didn't look at it more.

[22:08] But I I don't know the.

[22:11] That we have.

[22:13] The guardrails that we would want there.

[22:16] For something along those lines.

[22:20] Right, so the only uses.

[22:22] For uh.

[22:23] Art studio commercial or even the the art studios above it.

[22:26] The artisan, industrial and studio general.

[22:30] Are only allowed.

[22:31] If you in the high intensity.

[22:33] Arts and culture, height intensity, land use, which is not being proposed in the village but would be proposed anywhere else.

[22:40] In the what?

[22:42] At some point later.

[22:43] They're not being proposed now.

[22:45] OK, because that just.

[22:47] That 1617 and 18.

[22:49] Seemed to.

[22:51] Offer.

[22:53] More flexibility than.

[22:55] It does.

[22:56] And right now if someone wanted to open.

[22:59] An art studio with classes.

[23:01] On Van Winkle and Highland Drive 6200 down the strip mall.

[23:05] They could.

[23:06] I have nothing that would restrict them right now.

[23:10] OK, I think what the?

[23:11] The point is ensuring that.

[23:13] What is that accessory use?

[23:15] 2 Umm.

[23:18] And for the future?

[23:20] Consideration of what arts and culture could be used for in like in your commercial zones.

[23:25] We wanted to separate.

[23:27] Intensity. So you have now at high intensity use for the.

[23:30] Type of that commercial type of studio space.

[23:33] Could be used.

[23:35] And for the sole purpose of establishing A baseline that it's not appropriate for the village.

[23:41] Can be used in other parts of the city at some point.

[23:43] But not the village.

[23:46] I think when I consider like noise and impact to the community from the music recital point viewpoint.

[23:54] I almost wonder if we could just limit it to acoustic.

[23:57] Because classical falls into that piano, wind instruments, etc.

[24:03] If that would be.

[24:04] If that would be a good enough guardrail to keep someone from.

[24:08] Blast and Zeppelin off an electric guitar.

[24:11] And pushing that boundary.

[24:12] Not that I wouldn't appreciate a good Zeppelin, but what do you have against trumpets?

[24:18] Just that too.

[24:21] The another comment you might hear from.

[24:23] So the applicant is this idea that.

[24:27] Online, Uh.

[24:28] 19 that it's only indoor.

[24:31] The high intensity is indoor or outdoor.

[24:34] So the roof.

[24:36] Right now.

[24:37] Would at that Steinway building would be off limits OK?

[24:42] For the music.

[24:43] But not necessarily.

[24:45] They couldn't have like a gathering up there.

[24:46] No. OK, right now they can't.

[24:50] And with the way this is currently worded for the.

[24:53] Amendment. They still wouldn't.

[24:55] Be able to utilize that roof space, they have to go through some code amendments because they don't have occupancy allowance up on

[24:58] that roof.

[25:03] Wasn't built that way.

[25:06] But similarly to Caputo.

[25:08] They're always out on.

[25:09] Out in the Plaza playing music on Fridays.

[25:12] I think it's Friday or Saturdays.

[25:15] When code enforcement's off.

[25:18] Oh no.

[25:19] Police officers are always on.

[25:22] Police officers enforce your your noise ordinance, not the code enforcement.

[25:27] Well, is there any?

[25:29] What if we did a noise?

[25:30] Based on the property line.

[25:32] You have certain noise level.

[25:35] I know that.

[25:36] Is difficult sometimes, but it gives us at least a little bit of.

[25:39] Protection. So it doesn't matter what kind of instrument or.

[25:43] What type of amp?

[25:44] Notification. It's how loud they can have it.

[25:47] Right now, you protect the neighbors. Yeah, right now in your Title 9.

[25:51] Is your noise.

[25:54] Regulation Section.

[25:56] We can bring that up and show you what the decibel level.

[25:58] Would be required at for example, the apartment buildings to the West.

[26:04] But that already exists. It doesn't already exist. And that's that's.

[26:07] Citywide.

[26:09] OK. So maybe that's our guardrail.

[26:12] Can you?

[26:13] Tell us more about the special event requirements as provided in Title 14.56.

[26:18] I pulled it up, but it's long. Yeah, it is.

[26:22] Those are your the Sully County Health Departments gathering.

[26:25] Requirements When you're over a certain number of individuals, you need a special gathering permit which they call a special

[26:28] event.

[26:31] Or if you have alcohol.

[26:33] Provided umm.

[26:34] Whether as a private or an open bar type situation.

[26:38] So would the 50 attendees.

[26:40] Trigger just the 50 attendees without the alcohol thing. Would that ever trigger the special event thing? It would not.

[26:46] But they could theoretically, you know.

[26:47] Apply to the county to serve alcohol at a.

[26:50] They could nothing that would be different than.

[26:53] What would need to be here? Because there are already existing guidelines for that.

[26:56] That's right. OK.

[27:00] OK.

[27:02] Oh yeah, sorry. I'm just gonna see if we had any other questions before we roll into the meeting.

[27:06] I can ask.

[27:07] OK, fair enough. All right. Well, with that, we'll go ahead and close the work.

[27:12] Meeting.

[27:14] Unless anyone needs a reprieve for some reason, we'll just roll right into the official. Everybody good.

[27:19] All right, let's roll.

[27:22] Good evening everyone. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission.

[27:25] Tuesday, August 4th.

[27:27] 2026 time is 6:01 PM.

[27:30] In attendance we have Commissioner Baron.

[27:32] Gong prints.

[27:34] Chair Roach and Commissioner Tiffany and city staff with us, we have.

[27:39] Three items. 4 items on the agenda.

[27:42] The first is a public hearing, but before we get to that, I have asked Vice Chair.

[27:47] Prince if she would read the opening statement for the public.

[27:51] The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special

[27:55] studies.

[28:00] Make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning map and ordinance changes.

[28:05] And approved conditional uses and subdivisions.

[28:08] The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications.

[28:12] Rather, acts on applications as they are submitted.

[28:16] Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings.

[28:21] Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda where the location.

[28:25] The nature of the neighborhood.

[28:27] Existing structures and uses related to the proposed change are noted.

[28:32] Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff.

[28:37] The city's general plan.

[28:39] Zoning ordinance and other reports.

[28:41] By all verbal and written comments and by evidence submitted.

[28:46] All of which are part of the public record.

[28:49] Thank you very much. Appreciate that.

[28:51] And with that, we will roll into our first item.

[28:55] If city staff wants to give us a rundown.

[28:58] Before we invite the applicant up.

[29:10] OK. Item number one on the agenda is a application for a conditional use permit relating to the foot.

[29:18] Current of an accessory building.

[29:22] The Holiday city code allows for accessory buildings.

[29:27] With a specific.

[29:29] Footprint size.

[29:30] To be permitted and reviewed by staff.

[29:33] Those vary based off of the size of the property.

[29:36] When that footprint size, when the property owner wishes to have a larger footprint than the permitted size, that's then when it

[29:41] comes before the Planning Commission.

[29:47] In a public meeting for.

[29:49] Review and to assess any.

[29:53] Potential impacts related to that larger size and impose any conditions to mitigate those.

[29:59] Impacts.

[30:00] The applicant.

[30:03] Is requesting review of impacts and consideration of mitigation factors.

[30:09] For a new accessory building.

[30:12] The footprint of which is 26.

[30:15] 55 square feet.

[30:17] That is 1255.

[30:20] Square feet larger than the accessory building footprint size of 1400 square feet that's allowed on properties over 2 acres.

[30:30] The applicant has provided a site plan and has detailed some.

[30:36] Various mitigation factors in their narrative.

[30:39] And they've proposed these to specifically address impacts that they've foresee.

[30:44] And.

[30:46] Staff review of those is that the.

[30:49] Conditions they oppose with vegetation.

[30:52] And and.

[30:53] Also limited to our standard code with building height of 20 feet.

[30:58] And.

[31:01] It's within the the setbacks and beyond the setbacks on the rear side that are required for accessory buildings.

[31:07] That the.

[31:09] Mitigation factors.

[31:11] That the applicant has proposed the staff is in agreement that those are reasonable mitigation.

[31:17] I'll have the applicant come up and.

[31:20] After you have any potential questions for me, I can answer those for you.

[31:25] OK. Thank you.

[31:34] Good evening. Thank you for your time.

[31:36] In your service and also grateful for the.

[31:38] Neighbors that are showing up to.

[31:40] Ask any questions.

[31:42] My name is Aaron Buchanan.

[31:43] I'm with Brandon Bodel construction. We are.

[31:46] The general contractors on the project for the whole.

[31:49] Property, uh.

[31:50] And we are representing the Andrus family that that owns this house.

[31:55] I don't know if you could carry pull up the site plan.

[32:00] That I pres uh, that I.

[32:02] Submitted.

[32:04] An answer to kind of the conversation that was going on in the work meeting.

[32:08] The structure that you can see on the north north side of that property.

[32:12] It actually was a part of the existing house.

[32:15] That was there before the Andresses bought the property.

[32:18] It extended all the way down, kind of the middle of the property of the very long one.

[32:22] And I think it was.

[32:23] Built before they subdivided the northern property.

[32:26] So when when they purchased it?

[32:28] The the building was already on the other side of the property, but.

[32:32] In cooperation, I think it was. It was demolition demolished.

[32:35] So that the new property line is now established there.

[32:40] And also it it is.

[32:42] Called, It's been called the barn. As far as from what we've been using the term, it will not house any animals. It's not a.

[32:48] Barn of that type, it'll just be a.

[32:50] Private office space.

[32:52] That that family will be using.

[32:54] Not inviting any public or any.

[32:56] Large events, just just their own personal space.

[33:01] As described the.

[33:03] The restriction for height is 20 feet.

[33:05] And and it is a flat roof if you look at the overall shape of it, that northern part of it.

[33:12] Is actually a sloped down from like.

[33:15] 10 feet on the North End to about 13 feet.

[33:18] Until it hits the.

[33:19] The larger rectangle.

[33:21] And that large rectangle is.

[33:22] Is a flat roof at 20 feet.

[33:26] The required setbacks as was mentioned.

[33:29] It's within the 15 foot set back.

[33:31] On that Northside, but the majority.

[33:33] Of the, especially the higher portion of the.

[33:36] Structural will be.

[33:37] Within the 25 foot.

[33:39] Or 25 foot 4.

[33:40] Main Primary Health set back.

[33:44] The structural coverage.

[33:46] As I've mentioned.

[33:47] There's a 20% maximum limit.

[33:50] For this property size and.

[33:53] With with this barn and all the additional structures.

[33:56] It'll only about be it, about 12%.

[33:59] So we're not anywhere close to that.

[34:01] On the overall lot coverage?

[34:03] It was mentioned there, the 25%.

[34:06] Allowance.

[34:07] But then you can have up to 10% additional coverage.

[34:10] If we, if we provide large trees, some structures, things like that.

[34:13] So we have up to 35% with those at that 10% addition.

[34:17] And we are only at 34% on the proposed site plan with all of the.

[34:21] Hardscapes and everything else.

[34:24] From a safety or fire safety perspective, we have already reviewed this plan.

[34:29] In addition with all the other structures.

[34:31] And have gotten their approval. It will not be fire sprinkler.

[34:34] They'll actually park.

[34:35] On the.

[34:36] The north side of that of the.

[34:39] Of the parking right above the garage.

[34:41] They said that was within their limit, that they can pull the fire truck in there and.

[34:45] And and get to.

[34:47] The the barn with their with their within their limits.

[34:52] Also the question I know is curiosity of what?

[34:55] The structure looks like.

[34:57] I do have some.

[34:58] If anyone wants to see after the meeting I can show those.

[35:01] To show what it'll look like.

[35:03] But in in general it'll be.

[35:05] A sighting of darker, muted tones.

[35:08] That will match the rest of the house.

[35:12] Also.

[35:13] I think we were showing the.

[35:14] The larger.

[35:17] Pushed back a larger view of all the neighboring properties.

[35:20] Where the barn is located.

[35:22] There are no.

[35:23] House adjacent houses right near.

[35:25] That area there is.

[35:27] Tennis.

[35:29] Excuse me, the tennis court.

[35:31] On the Northside.

[35:32] On the West side there are a lot of trees already existing trees.

[35:37] In both within the homeowners.

[35:39] Property and on the other side.

[35:41] But we will still.

[35:42] Plant some more trees just in case.

[35:44] The neighbors ever do.

[35:46] Cut down their trees, we would still have everything screened.

[35:48] From our side.

[35:50] On the north side.

[35:51] To that property there are.

[35:53] More holes, you know, you could see it from the tennis court, so we will.

[35:56] Be putting a lot more.

[35:58] Trees.

[35:59] That we showed on those.

[36:01] They'll all be evergreens.

[36:02] Have plenty of room to plant more.

[36:04] If that's what is, what is needed to help mitigate any.

[36:07] Any screening of the of the structure.

[36:11] As far as that their mitigation?

[36:14] The light should not be much of A concern. The only lights that we are putting on the exterior.

[36:19] Of the structure will be on the South and on the east side.

[36:22] So not facing any.

[36:23] Any neighboring properties.

[36:25] Noise should not be a problem because they'll be doing.

[36:28] All their activities typically in daytime hours.

[36:30] And have the house insulated so.

[36:33] Noise should not be a problem at all.

[36:37] We mentioned already the.

[36:39] Exterior Materials.

[36:40] Of the site positioning we tried to.

[36:42] While while one corner of it is pretty close to property, we're trying to keep most of the higher structure.

[36:47] And rotated so that we're not.

[36:50] Right in the corner of the property.

[36:52] And then the last item would probably just be.

[36:54] From a parking perspective.

[36:56] We're not planning on any. They already have a pretty extensive amount of.

[37:00] Parking.

[37:00] Available in the House.

[37:02] That should be more than.

[37:03] Plenty to cover any.

[37:04] Type of use for this structure.

[37:06] They wouldn't anticipate any.

[37:07] Need of parking on the street or anything like that.

[37:11] I think that's all I have if there's any questions.

[37:13] If not, is this a?

[37:15] Two-story structure.

[37:17] It is a basement and a main floor only basement, main floor.

[37:21] Yeah, umm.

[37:23] And the rooms delineated on the.

[37:28] Northside are those in the basement or those that ground level?

[37:31] Those are on ground level.

[37:33] It's, yeah, a bathroom.

[37:35] And more of a storage unit.

[37:37] A storage room on the left side and then that is the stairs.

[37:40] You can see going down to the basement.

[37:41] And then the large open area will have partitions where they can.

[37:45] You know, put different office spaces for the family.

[37:50] Umm.

[37:54] And I noticed you put on there, there won't be any when I look at the noise, I'm not necessarily.

[37:59] When we look at the noise on these, I'm not necessarily thinking about construction. I'm thinking about noise from within. If the,

[38:04] for example, child wants to start a rock band in the proposed barn, yeah.

[38:10] Will the insulation be sufficient enough to keep that noise from traveling across the property line? Correct. Yep.

[38:17] OK, Is there a?

[38:18] Living space or living No No dwelling unit at all.

[38:23] And, and the only thing I'll say about the trees, I love that there's lots of trees planned to go in here.

[38:31] I would maybe make a recommendation to add a few deciduous trees into the mixed OK.

[38:36] Just because they'll give you a little bit more height, canopy and a little bit more shade coverage than you're going to achieve

[38:39] with.

[38:42] Strictly going Evergreen.

[38:43] OK, that sounds great.

[38:45] There are a series of doubly use.

[38:48] Off the.

[38:49] South side of the barn are.

[38:52] Those were.

[38:53] Windows or doors or something? Yeah.

[38:54] OK. Yeah. The majority of the South side has opened by full doors that would then open up into the out onto the grass.

[39:01] There, so the main entrance will be.

[39:03] On the South will have bifold doors there and a large opening on the.

[39:07] On the east side.

[39:09] But on the West.

[39:10] And on the north are all just windows. No, no doors.

[39:17] All right.

[39:18] Commissioners, any other questions for the applicant?

[39:21] All right, go ahead and have you sit down. Thank you very much.

[39:24] All right, this is a public hearing, so those from the public.

[39:28] If you are from the public, hold on just a SEC, this pertains to you.

[39:31] So this is a public hearing we will invite.

[39:34] People to come up and speak.

[39:36] We would ask that you state your name and address for the record when you do so and that you keep your comments to 3 minutes or

[39:40] less. Please direct the Commission.

[39:44] And not the applicant or anyone else in the room.

[39:47] And then we will give them a chance to respond after public comment.

[39:50] Sorry, I'm gonna.

[39:51] Quickly interject, we are not asking for addresses anymore, so just journey.

[39:56] Just your name please.

[39:59] I'm Deborah Reichert. If you could get up to the mic, though, that helps with our recorder, you can adjust. I'm Deborah Reichard.

[40:04] Thank you. And I live just.

[40:06] West umm.

[40:07] Of them and I'm having trouble seeing where my house is.

[40:13] This is my neighbor.

[40:14] We were trying to figure out where this.

[40:17] Building was just 2600 square feet as big.

[40:20] And you said 20 somehow feet high.

[40:23] And I would like to know where my house is.

[40:26] How it impacts so I can see it? I couldn't see it from the.

[40:31] The description.

[40:32] OK. Because I wonder how it impacts me. The other thing I know.

[40:37] Is when Scott.

[40:39] Built his house originally after turn.

[40:41] I've seen other houses built there.

[40:44] He raised.

[40:45] The lawn. So actually.

[40:48] The interest this property is higher than mine.

[40:52] So when?

[40:54] I see people working in their yard, you know, I can see people working like.

[40:58] Waist up. So I really like to be able to see what this.

[41:02] Property is so you can say 22 feet, but they're really raised.

[41:06] OK. Thank you.

[41:19] Could I see a site plan? I could I could have your name please?

[41:22] I'm sorry, David Defrancesco.

[41:25] 2203.

[41:27] It's my address.

[41:28] OK. And.

[41:30] Any comments you want to make and then?

[41:32] Well, I'm just.

[41:33] Curious on.

[41:35] That's pretty substantial edifice they're building.

[41:39] And how?

[41:40] What is? What will be the actual height?

[41:42] Above, like the street?

[41:46] Do we know?

[41:47] We will ask city and give the applicant a chance to respond to that, OK.

[41:52] And then?

[41:56] Well.

[41:57] How high above the fence they actually had the the previous.

[42:01] People are put in a.

[42:03] A higher fence than I think was.

[42:05] They got it.

[42:05] They wanted to hire fans, yeah.

[42:08] But I know from watching people in the yard that.

[42:13] Clear ground is higher than mine.

[42:15] They've built up their ground a little bit, but.

[42:17] Backyard space in there.

[42:19] Anyway, if this has been.

[42:21] Corner there that will be.

[42:23] I wish you could see something that.

[42:25] Just showed.

[42:27] Where it is for the adjacent properties.

[42:29] You know how it?

[42:31] The house looks directly at the back of their house. I understand.

[42:34] So is mine.

[42:35] OK, umm.

[42:37] So that doesn't have the house, that's on it.

[42:40] Now doesn't.

[42:41] OK, yeah, I'm the.

[42:43] All right, so this.

[42:45] Structure is actually going up where the cursor is.

[42:49] Is that where you're?

[42:50] Circling right there.

[42:52] That's where it's at. So yeah, that's.

[42:54] Above my place.

[42:57] They have, they have put a big building in right.

[43:00] In back of my house.

[43:01] But it's a ways off of the fence, and it's.

[43:04] OK.

[43:06] But OK, so this is up.

[43:08] And their sport. We don't get to see your sport court there, do we?

[43:12] Because Mrs. Anders came and wanted to buy.

[43:16] Pan down just slightly.

[43:19] The view that you had before.

[43:21] Can that pan down?

[43:22] No, now you're going out.

[43:24] OK, right there. OK, Yeah, there's your sport court.

[43:27] So see right up there.

[43:30] There's your OK.

[43:31] Do you have any other comments at this time?

[43:34] I know that Mrs. Andres wanted to buy the property in my sport, OK.

[43:40] Thank you. OK.

[43:41] Thank you. We'll go ahead and have you see. Thank you.

[43:43] Any other comments on this tonight?

[43:46] All right. We'll go ahead and close the public hearing. And with that, we'll invite the applicant up if he wants to address any of

[43:50] the questions that were brought up by the.

[43:54] Folks that made comments.

[43:57] Yeah, I think I'll.

[43:58] I do have the like a zoomed out picture that I can share afterwards with with the Commission and with any neighbors to kind of

[44:01] show.

[44:04] Exactly where that shows on the property.

[44:06] In addition to any of the other accessory structures on there as well.

[44:09] As far as the grading, I was trying to pull that up. Let me see if I can answer that question really quick.

[44:14] The street elevation.

[44:17] Is umm.

[44:18] Roughly, uh.

[44:20] 44.

[44:21] 2020.

[44:22] 8 I believe.

[44:24] And the grading out outside the party barn is supposed to be 44.

[44:29] 23 so.

[44:32] It'll be about.

[44:34] About 5 feet lower the.

[44:36] Floor will be about 5 feet lower than the street so.

[44:39] If you're doing from the streets about 15 feet above.

[44:42] The street so.

[44:43] We do recognize that there was quite a bit of dirt.

[44:46] That had been built up and we have excavated most of that out, so now it's mostly flat. It's not like a.

[44:51] Big mound over the property.

[44:53] Gotcha, that's all.

[44:55] You're not building a castle on the hill in the backyard. Got it.

[44:58] OK.

[44:59] OK. All right.

[45:01] Thank you.

[45:02] All right, Commissioners.

[45:04] Any other questions for city staff?

[45:09] Or discussion points so.

[45:16] I mean this looks.

[45:17] Somewhat.

[45:19] I don't want to say standard, but familiar from other properties we've seen in the neighborhood of this sort of square footage.

[45:26] And building.

[45:28] Proposed building layouts and.

[45:30] Additional square footage I could think of.

[45:34] More detrimental ways?

[45:37] This could have come before us.

[45:41] But I think it's.

[45:43] Pretty straightforward from my end, what's being asked for and other than some side visuals that aren't actually required.

[45:49] For the decision tonight, I think they've.

[45:52] Put together a pretty good packet, it sounds like they're.

[45:54] Cognizant of the mitigation factors, I noticed in the conditions that we have in the packet.

[45:59] I don't think there was anything in there regarding.

[46:03] Additional.

[46:04] Insulation or anything to mitigate on the noise, was that something that?

[46:10] Needed to be called out.

[46:14] Not necessarily, unless that was something that you want to include as a condition.

[46:20] I don't.

[46:21] We have our noise ordinance that regulates.

[46:23] Noise already, so staff's opinion is just let the noise ordinance.

[46:28] Work if there's any.

[46:30] Issues with noise then.

[46:32] That can be addressed from a code enforcement.

[46:35] Standpoint.

[46:36] OK. Thank you.

[46:37] I'm sorry, did you need something?

[46:39] Yes. How far away from my back fence?

[46:42] Is the structure.

[46:44] Where my sport, my sport extends further back. How far away is it from my sport court? OK, I'll go ahead and have staff answer

[46:50] that for you if you want to go ahead and have a seat back down. No public comment has been closed at this time.

[46:56] Because that makes a difference to me.

[46:59] So yeah.

[47:00] Carrie, do you happen to know what the.

[47:02] With this from the back.

[47:03] Property line there.

[47:04] Yep. So sport core is here.

[47:07] Which is quite a distance from your own property line, 15 feet.

[47:12] Is this?

[47:13] It's hard to see on here, but there is a dashed line that goes across the property here.

[47:18] So this corner.

[47:21] Is 15 feet.

[47:23] And then it increases in distance as it goes further away, so it doesn't come.

[47:28] Closer to where the sport court is.

[47:32] That's that this is our standard accessory building footprint or.

[47:38] Set back distance is 15 feet.

[47:41] And they're only at that 15.

[47:43] Feet at this point.

[47:45] This interior line of 20.

[47:48] 4 feet.

[47:49] Oh, sorry, 26 feet.

[47:51] Is where a standard?

[47:53] A house could be built within this whole area.

[47:57] So barn is mostly within.

[48:01] An area where?

[48:02] A house could be built.

[48:04] But it is, since it's an accessory building, it's.

[48:07] Can go out to 15 feet.

[48:10] It only extends to 15 feet.

[48:12] At that point.

[48:13] Some very closest corner of the proposed project at best is.

[48:18] 3540 feet from the.

[48:20] Very corner of the.

[48:22] Sports court closest to it.

[48:25] OK.

[48:27] All right. Well, with that.

[48:29] Commissioners, I think I've seen.

[48:31] Everything we need to see on this and if anyones ready to.

[48:34] Make a motion.

[48:34] I'm ready to entertain that.

[48:37] Is Commissioner Barrett. I'll make a recommendation that.

[48:40] We approve the conditional use permit application.

[48:43] For Aaron Johnson.

[48:44] As a representative for the property owner.

[48:47] For an accessory building.

[48:48] Friend of 2655 square feet, located at 5420 S.

[48:54] Cottonwood Lane.

[48:55] In the R143 zone.

[48:58] Based upon the findings and conditions.

[49:00] Laid out in the staff report.

[49:02] This is Commissioner Prince. I'll second that motion.

[49:04] OK, we have a motion in a second. We'll start down here. Mission tripping.

[49:08] Aye, Commissioner Prince, Aye, Mr.

[49:11] Mr. Barron hi and Chair Roach votes aye. So with that, it'll move forward to.

[49:16] City Council.

[49:18] All right. And we will now move over to the.

[49:23] Continued item we had for the text amendment on arts and culture.

[49:27] And if city staff wants to give us.

[49:29] An overview of that.

[49:31] Sure. Thanks, Chair Roach.

[49:35] The beginning of the previous meeting, the Planning Commission.

[49:38] Open to public hearing.

[49:39] To consider a proposal to add a new.

[49:42] Land use within the Holiday Village zone.

[49:45] That land use specifically is intended.

[49:47] To be an accessory.

[49:50] Rather than.

[49:51] What would be primary uses of buildings?

[49:53] And complementary to.

[49:55] Those that are already in operation.

[49:59] What we're seeing currently within the village is the intent to maintain a commercial tax base for.

[50:06] Properties or spaces that are on the ground level.

[50:09] If you're on upper levels, you can have any other use that are allowed in the village.

[50:15] But if you're specifically on a ground level, retail is intended to be the only use available.

[50:20] As other parts of the city and starts to mature and develop with commercial space.

[50:26] Landlords are.

[50:27] Concerned and issues of having.

[50:29] Those spaces filled with retail only uses that fit that.

[50:33] That type of umm, uh.

[50:34] That size of those spaces.

[50:36] Smaller sizes, less parking.

[50:38] That type of thing.

[50:41] So accessory uses are something that.

[50:43] Be used to bolster.

[50:45] Landlords efficiency of the space.

[50:49] In conjunction with that, we when we adopted.

[50:52] The general plan update.

[50:54] Late last year.

[50:56] Uh, we had a high.

[50:58] Interest from the community on preserving arts and culture as something that is.

[51:03] Acceptable and.

[51:04] Intended to be bolstered.

[51:07] The village being a very natural place for that to occur.

[51:10] So merging those two together.

[51:13] Staff is proposed in conjunction with some applicant Applicant of existing business.

[51:20] To include a new land use called arts and culture.

[51:24] And in order to.

[51:29] Blend this.

[51:31] Accessory use with the intensity or intent of the village.

[51:35] The staff is proposing two types of intensities.

[51:39] So to speak. And those are now different.

[51:41] Would be defined in your code.

[51:43] One being a low intense use which is based upon number of attendants.

[51:48] The type of art that is being displayed or performed.

[51:53] The operation of which is off hours the primary use.

[51:58] So that it complements parking.

[52:01] And a couple of other details.

[52:04] That are sized very deep.

[52:06] Size related.

[52:08] Conversely, when you look at.

[52:09] The the proposal for arts and culture high intense use.

[52:13] That would be something that would be.

[52:15] Possibly used for other zones in the city.

[52:18] Not the village.

[52:19] So in an attempt.

[52:23] To future proof.

[52:25] This idea of arts and culture.

[52:28] That high intense definition or land use is available.

[52:32] To apply.

[52:33] At a future date in other zones. So that's in there as a definition, but it's not as not being intended to be used for a village

[52:37] use.

[52:42] The other.

[52:43] Type of land use is.

[52:45] What can occur within a space?

[52:47] When the space is vacant.

[52:50] Right now, what we're looking at.

[52:52] Proposing is.

[52:54] A storefront gallery type of use Which?

[52:57] Can be used.

[52:59] To use forward facing windows is you know.

[53:01] Whatever type of guilt are that could be displayed.

[53:04] Well.

[53:06] The space is vacant or otherwise unoccupied.

[53:11] SO3 parts.

[53:12] To your.

[53:13] Text amendment that's being proposed.

[53:15] A definitions amendment which provides the new definitions for land uses, and there are some standards in their views.

[53:22] The the actual.

[53:24] Amendment for.

[53:25] The holiday village zone.

[53:28] And that section.

[53:30] Takes the street level requirement of retail only and adds accessory, dwelling unit or accessory.

[53:38] Arts and culture spaces.

[53:40] And then the final land use table which is the brick building long grid of land uses.

[53:46] Really the only page you need to look at is the very first one very top three lines because it's luckily it's alphabetical order.

[53:52] It's right. It goes right to the top.

[53:55] And so right now, staff.

[53:58] Is written this as a permitted use?

[54:02] With the standards that are only.

[54:04] And define, as in the definition of arts and culture, low intensity.

[54:09] And the storefront gallery.

[54:11] So the requests for the Planning Commission and.

[54:13] Tonight is to review that definition.

[54:17] Considering what potential?

[54:19] Uses could be.

[54:21] You know, other than.

[54:22] You know music recitals, does it fit in the village as as an arts and culture use as an accessory?

[54:29] With those standards if not.

[54:31] Would you rather see it as a conditional type use like we just?

[54:35] Experienced with the footprint size.

[54:39] Knowing the context? Knowing what?

[54:41] The space is being used for.

[54:43] And considering input from the public, would you?

[54:47] Preferred to have that.

[54:49] That interaction to apply conditions.

[54:52] That would be outside of this definition section here.

[54:57] So in addition to.

[54:58] The what's being proposed as amendments.

[55:00] Your public hearing is still open.

[55:02] So you can either.

[55:04] Continue that or close it.

[55:06] Depending on.

[55:07] We are purview and then also we do have applicants here tonight you can question as well.

[55:14] As far as what's being proposed and what they would be considered useful.

[55:20] Well, I know there were a couple more questions during the week.

[55:23] Work meeting, we didn't quite get to and I just had one more that kind of came to my mind when we're talking about.

[55:28] Off our usage.

[55:32] Do we have?

[55:33] Any sort of constraints on those hours in existing code?

[55:39] There are.

[55:40] So let me see if I can find that really quick is in your code amendment. It happens to be in there.

[55:48] So it would be on page.

[55:53] Not that I think there's going to be a 2:00 AM rave of arts and culture at night.

[55:57] 20 page 26, line 10.

[56:00] Is your existing code for the hours?

[56:04] Uh, for businesses.

[56:06] In the village.

[56:07] OK.

[56:10] Basically.

[56:10] Nothing is available between midnight and six.

[56:14] Until 12:00 we turn into pumpkins. Get out right?

[56:17] You roll out.

[56:19] OK, now if you talk to my son that.

[56:21] It's not anywhere near accurate.

[56:26] So John, as I was looking at this, I screwed up and didn't look at the special event.

[56:31] Code in chapter 13.

[56:33] 1414 Pardon me.

[56:35] How does that?

[56:36] Keep How does that come into play with something like this? Is that.

[56:41] That's enough. No longer required as far as.

[56:44] No, it would these businesses another layer.

[56:47] Of regulation.

[56:48] If they move into the special event types, types.

[56:52] If you could, what?

[56:53] Qualifies as a special event.

[56:57] I believe it's a number of individuals attending.

[56:59] And I can't remember exactly what that number is.

[57:03] Kerry might have it off the top of her head, or there's alcohol present.

[57:06] Being sold or provided.

[57:08] Sounds like the Planning Commission.

[57:10] Sorry.

[57:11] We have alcohol here.

[57:13] Alcohol but no numbers or vice versa.

[57:18] Thank you.

[57:20] Umm, Commissioner Brown, actually, for an example, a special event is the Blue Moon event.

[57:24] That's that's a special event for us.

[57:27] If if the business wanted to have a reception with alcohol, that's a special event.

[57:33] Does involve either the county or the state level.

[57:38] Who? Who's on the review committee of the special events?

[57:42] Is it just like the TRC or?

[57:45] No, it'd be our business licensing side.

[57:47] OK. This licensing division.

[57:49] And that has to be.

[57:51] Applied for and granted.

[57:53] Yeah, regardless of what this code says exactly, OK.

[57:58] That's another guardrail.

[58:00] OK. And I just wanted to clarify the high-tensity art event.

[58:05] Is not.

[58:06] Will not be currently allowed anywhere.

[58:09] Intel at a later date when it's assigned it.

[58:13] When appropriate.

[58:14] Is that correct?

[58:16] That's correct right now.

[58:17] We've noticed.

[58:18] This amendment has village only application.

[58:22] So even though I have a potential.

[58:26] Definition for you.

[58:28] You don't necessarily need.

[58:29] To recommend that that's ready for.

[58:32] Adoption. We can table that.

[58:34] Part of it and just keep the low intensity.

[58:36] But no, it's not intended to be used anywhere in the city. Not in the village or anywhere else.

[58:42] So is there any benefit to having that on the amendment before us tonight?

[58:47] Only to separate the idea that will have.

[58:50] That that what we want to have our is a low intensity use.

[58:54] There is a high intensity.

[58:57] Um, potentially.

[58:59] To be.

[58:59] To occur in the other parts of the city.

[59:02] So all it does is just separates the types.

[59:05] Abuses that would be considered.

[59:07] Too much for the village to handle.

[59:11] Can you go to the?

[59:12] High intensity use.

[59:13] Definition that's been added.

[59:18] Because believe it or not, I didn't memorize all this. Thank you.

[59:25] Yeah, primarily the biggest.

[59:26] Differences.

[59:28] Low intensity is indoor.

[59:30] Low intensity has an attendee.

[59:32] Maximum.

[59:33] Whereas I intentionally.

[59:35] Would not.

[59:36] We would have more of a occupancy load of the building.

[59:41] The high intense uses can be.

[59:44] Can could operate at the same time the primary business.

[59:47] His operating so if you have a restaurant and a live show.

[59:51] That's an intense use, intense parking.

[59:53] Requirement that would be.

[59:54] They would have some parking requirements that come with it.

[59:58] And then the other type of artist studios.

[1:00:02] That would be available.

[1:00:04] At the same time.

[1:00:07] I'm right at the top of my head. I'm thinking of, you know, some really cool art or glass blowing.

[1:00:13] Uh, some industrial type art studios that are available at the same time?

[1:00:18] Nearby pub or.

[1:00:20] Fish and chip places. I'm thinking anything that's along the.

[1:00:23] The Oregon Coast is similar to that.

[1:00:26] If you think about something like that.

[1:00:29] So much Chihuly wants to come to a glass blowing exhibit.

[1:00:33] At the Holiday Hills in a restaurant.

[1:00:36] Area.

[1:00:37] Doesn't really apply.

[1:00:39] Yeah, if he wanted to.

[1:00:40] He would have to just display them.

[1:00:43] And not sure you had to do it.

[1:00:48] I have a couple of questions.

[1:00:50] So does.

[1:00:51] Does.

[1:00:54] Outdoor music.

[1:00:56] Which we know exists in at least one place.

[1:00:58] In the village, is that falling under high intensity and it's outside of the scope of this or because it's during their hours?

[1:01:05] Well, except I think that's what high intensity is.

[1:01:08] Yeah, that, that.

[1:01:10] That has been and has been operating under just the noise ordinance.

[1:01:14] So as long as they don't exceed the noise ordinance, they have their jazz band that plays outside. Uh-huh.

[1:01:20] Similar to the.

[1:01:21] The food truck park. They have amplified music as long as it doesn't exceed noise ordinance.

[1:01:26] We've accepted as being as something that can be done, yeah, Which I think is a.

[1:01:30] Really important, very nice place making things. So I just want to make sure this doesn't somehow suddenly exclude that use or

[1:01:35] make it so that people can't do that. I'm glad you mentioned that. That was the same comment from our arts and culture.

[1:01:41] Liaison Megan Adermann, who's on staff.

[1:01:45] Having it only indoor might hinder.

[1:01:47] That feel.

[1:01:49] So an indoor outdoor that would still comply with the noise ordinance is would be her recommendation to still be.

[1:01:54] Considered.

[1:01:56] For the for the low intensity have an outdoor use as well if it's.

[1:02:00] A quiet quartet if it's a.

[1:02:02] Small boombox or something?

[1:02:05] Yeah, I think, I think that would be we want to add that language. So if we liked that would have to add that.

[1:02:11] Indoor or outdoor accessory use.

[1:02:15] To that line based on noise ordinance.

[1:02:18] To line 19.

[1:02:20] If the noise ordinance has been limiting what's already happening.

[1:02:23] I think what's already happening is very nice.

[1:02:27] And so if that hasn't been a problem, I do want to.

[1:02:29] I think preserving it with an outdoor.

[1:02:32] Adding the outdoor.

[1:02:34] I think is very reasonable.

[1:02:36] Unless we've unless the staff has encountered a lot of problems in the past where you're like, no.

[1:02:41] Now they've been reminded.

[1:02:42] Enough, I think.

[1:02:44] It's been very.

[1:02:47] Complimentary.

[1:02:48] OK, I had a couple other questions.

[1:02:54] For the temporary storefront gallery, who gets to decide?

[1:02:58] What would be displayed there? Would it be the owner?

[1:03:01] Of the building.

[1:03:03] Yeah, I think we would rely on either the landlord.

[1:03:07] Or the tenant to decide what's there.

[1:03:09] OK. And are there standards already about?

[1:03:12] Decency is the only one I can think of.

[1:03:14] That's why.

[1:03:15] Our legal counsel would like to have that 5.82 section in there, that whole chapter.

[1:03:20] Describes what those indecency issues would.

[1:03:24] Potentially be.

[1:03:25] So even if it were categorized as art.

[1:03:28] We're, I mean, that's a fuzzy line. If we needed to, we could rely on that section.

[1:03:33] OK. And then?

[1:03:36] In the work meeting, parking was.

[1:03:38] Brought up umm.

[1:03:40] I it sounds like there's a range of closing times for businesses in downtown.

[1:03:47] And the.

[1:03:49] Low intensity is written would have to.

[1:03:51] Happen after the operating hours for the specific business, but it may be during business hours.

[1:03:57] For other folks.

[1:03:58] Is there?

[1:04:00] Is what is the rollover for parking look like as businesses close but.

[1:04:06] Another business might have a special event. Is that a huge in this village? It's it's quite a bit.

[1:04:11] Because we do have a lot of office spaces that are done at.

[1:04:16] I would say at least 50% of the parking stalls that are used for office spaces are vacant.

[1:04:21] After 5.

[1:04:23] OK, great.

[1:04:25] Because I think that.

[1:04:27] Being cognizant of parking is.

[1:04:29] Is important, but.

[1:04:30] I I think this is a great use of space in a secondary.

[1:04:37] Uses, you know, helpful for businesses, so I think.

[1:04:41] I want to make sure that parking isn't the thing that's making us.

[1:04:44] Pause on that.

[1:04:45] I also think.

[1:04:47] It could be a moment to make people more aware of the public transit that comes through.

[1:04:51] Downtown, we have two.

[1:04:53] Bus lines, they're not great. They're both half hour, not 15 minute, but you know.

[1:04:57] Their they, their path is OK.

[1:05:00] You know so.

[1:05:02] It's an opportunity biking and walking. I mean, if you if you read.

[1:05:05] What's interesting is you read the.

[1:05:07] Purpose statement of the village.

[1:05:09] Umm, it's intended to be a neighborhood in.

[1:05:11] It's not.

[1:05:12] Turned into that and it's turned into more of a regional draw.

[1:05:15] Which is great.

[1:05:17] Which the primary reason why we want to make sure that we get this intensity.

[1:05:22] Thing.

[1:05:26] Did a just quick along those lines, could a?

[1:05:31] Property owner or a store?

[1:05:33] Sidestep.

[1:05:35] The hours the after hours operation by closing early.

[1:05:41] Like, oh, we're closing early for an event today at noon, and then we're going to have the event at 2:00 during rush hour when all

[1:05:45] the parking stops are Paul.

[1:05:49] The way it's written, potentially yes.

[1:05:51] Mm-hmm.

[1:05:53] Not a problem.

[1:05:56] Just trying to think of like, you know, what happens when a business.

[1:05:59] Closes all the time for special events.

[1:06:02] On a regular basis, after hours to try and sidestep.

[1:06:06] The order just that's how my mind works, you know, I'm the what if guy.

[1:06:10] I think the way that it's written so that it.

[1:06:13] As long as.

[1:06:14] You know you don't have all of your.

[1:06:17] Tenants or not tenants, your patrons.

[1:06:20] Still occupying those parking stalls. I mean that's I think that's the point of having off hours if they're closing and there's a

[1:06:24] high intensity retailer like Harmons.

[1:06:28] And then all of a sudden you have.

[1:06:30] 80 parking stalls available.

[1:06:33] And the other.

[1:06:34] Point I wanted to make is on line 21.

[1:06:38] If the idea of.

[1:06:39] Temporary basis is appropriate.

[1:06:42] You know it talks about.

[1:06:44] What types of use is? How many people should be there?

[1:06:47] And then on a temporary basis?

[1:06:49] That's arbitrary and that would be difficult for staff to enforce, but I think it's flexible enough.

[1:06:55] To have.

[1:06:57] Us presume like, well, you're.

[1:06:59] You're having these every other day.

[1:07:02] Every single week.

[1:07:04] That's a regular basis and that's not a temporary situation.

[1:07:08] Or you're doing it.

[1:07:10] You know, whatever the case may be.

[1:07:12] Right. And that that might be a really great question to ask. You know we've got a couple of the business owners as well here what

[1:07:16] they would intend to use.

[1:07:20] Temporary basis for.

[1:07:21] Right. Or if we have a definition of temporary.

[1:07:25] Sure.

[1:07:25] As applicable.

[1:07:27] So, but I guess we should, since we do have the public hearing.

[1:07:31] Still open.

[1:07:33] And we do have a couple applicants here. We can definitely, I think we've heard from one of them, but we can invite them to come

[1:07:36] up and.

[1:07:40] Read address some of the.

[1:07:42] Because this wasn't available originally, was it?

[1:07:45] No, OK, but it has been provided to.

[1:07:47] The business owners, OK.

[1:07:49] Well, with that, if either business owner wants to come up or both business owners want to come up.

[1:07:53] And address this.

[1:08:01] Isaac Jackson.

[1:08:02] It's good to be back.

[1:08:05] I'm here to answer any questions that you might have I think.

[1:08:10] The main what I.

[1:08:13] I also want to express just gratitude for the hard work that Jonathan's put into this. Like, there's no way I could have done this

[1:08:16] and he's thought of.

[1:08:21] A lot of the things that are going to be super helpful for what we're trying to accomplish and just the time.

[1:08:26] And energy that you guys have taken to review it and the questions?

[1:08:30] I love the.

[1:08:32] Because we don't.

[1:08:33] We don't want to cause problems.

[1:08:35] Or other businesses too. And we don't want to cause something that they're going to then take advantage of, kind of like what you

[1:08:39] were saying then.

[1:08:43] Or we.

[1:08:44] Definitely don't want to ruin anything that's happening at Caputo's, right? Like with their job, because that's delightful and

[1:08:48] it's wonderful and.

[1:08:52] We actually have a lot of people that will.

[1:08:54] Walk past our storefront.

[1:08:56] To get.

[1:08:57] To that.

[1:08:58] And they'll go like, wait a second.

[1:09:00] Gallery here and they'll pop in.

[1:09:02] On their way over there.

[1:09:04] And so.

[1:09:05] I think that main header is.

[1:09:07] Apropos is that we're trying to.

[1:09:10] Elevate and to create a community.

[1:09:14] Arts and culture and be a part of that, that what I think the city of Holiday is trying to bolster at the moment. So the timing is

[1:09:18] just.

[1:09:22] We just feel lucky that we're going to be a part of that and.

[1:09:25] Talk to Megan.

[1:09:27] A lot about that too and how we can collaborate.

[1:09:29] With some of the concerts that she's wants to do and and the performances that she wants to bring in, how can we?

[1:09:35] Provide an auxiliary.

[1:09:37] Space and a place that.

[1:09:40] That could happen in conjunction with with what the city of Holiday is trying to to accomplish. So just appreciate the thoughts

[1:09:45] and the concerns about everybody in in.

[1:09:51] In the city.

[1:09:53] And with this ordinance meet.

[1:09:55] The needs that you are expressing the last time you were here.

[1:09:58] In order to have your recitals.

[1:10:00] Definitely, uh.

[1:10:01] OK.

[1:10:04] As a business owner.

[1:10:05] What do you fill your recitals would operate on as a definition of temporary?

[1:10:13] The recitals.

[1:10:15] I don't know.

[1:10:18] This is something that's going to be continuous with the Steinway Piano Gallery is part of.

[1:10:23] What a Steinway gallery offers to.

[1:10:27] Teachers that are.

[1:10:28] Local to Utah and piano students and so.

[1:10:33] This is something that.

[1:10:34] Is not happening every single day.

[1:10:37] That's not our primary.

[1:10:39] Purpose for providing A Steinway gallery to.

[1:10:43] To Utah.

[1:10:44] But it is like.

[1:10:45] This is proposing is an auxiliary use.

[1:10:49] And so.

[1:10:50] Temporary would be. It's not happening every single day, but it is after hours and it is usually on like a.

[1:10:58] A Friday night or a Saturday night?

[1:11:00] During those times when those teachers can get the most attendance.

[1:11:05] They're battling.

[1:11:07] I was a teacher for 2025 years and you're.

[1:11:10] Constantly battling sports events and like who can be there when and so.

[1:11:15] They're constantly changing, but we have.

[1:11:17] Schedules that they can then.

[1:11:19] Schedule that time.

[1:11:21] So once to twice a week would still be.

[1:11:24] In your mind, temporary.

[1:11:26] In this language.

[1:11:27] Twice a week would probably be better if we're leaning towards the two to three times a week.

[1:11:33] OK, that I just.

[1:11:35] Like I said, I want to understand when we say temporary because you know you could have if it gets really popular.

[1:11:40] Every night, right?

[1:11:42] There there are times of the year that are more.

[1:11:45] Popular SO.

[1:11:48] A lot of teachers will do their.

[1:11:50] Two lesson 2 recitals a year. It's usually like.

[1:11:55] And then?

[1:11:55] December is a big one because that's like the Christmas time.

[1:12:00] I with my studio was transitioning towards.

[1:12:04] A Halloween one, right? So there's.

[1:12:06] There's sort of seasonal recitals that are super fun that will do like.

[1:12:12] Music, movie themes during the holiday the the Halloween.

[1:12:16] Recital or you know, but Christmas is a big one, so December there will be a lot.

[1:12:22] And then in like.

[1:12:24] The May when school is getting out and kids.

[1:12:27] Starting.

[1:12:28] Vacation so.

[1:12:29] That could be.

[1:12:30] Temporary use.

[1:12:32] Considered as well.

[1:12:34] So got you.

[1:12:35] OK.

[1:12:36] Appreciate that other questions for the applicant.

[1:12:39] All right. Thank you.

[1:12:44] Question for staff, if it's all right.

[1:12:46] I know that you wrote the code, but is this?

[1:12:49] With some of the changes we're suggesting still.

[1:12:52] Addressing how?

[1:12:53] You can use the code to your.

[1:12:55] The benefit you're hoping?

[1:12:57] For I don't want to take away the.

[1:13:00] Flexibility that.

[1:13:02] I mean to me the.

[1:13:04] Idea of temporary.

[1:13:07] Just went through the roof. I mean as far as the.

[1:13:09] Multiplicity of.

[1:13:11] How many times that could be?

[1:13:13] Based on the time of year so.

[1:13:15] I think you're going to need to figure out a way to manage that.

[1:13:19] And I want to be able to give you the mechanism to do that.

[1:13:22] Yeah, I appreciate that.

[1:13:25] It does leave a.

[1:13:26] Sort of open-ended.

[1:13:28] But I do.

[1:13:29] Believe that it is.

[1:13:30] It depending on the enforcement.

[1:13:33] Individual who's applying this code? Either me or somebody else.

[1:13:37] That the intent would be to apply temporary based upon what the primary use is.

[1:13:43] In this case it's a recital session that's.

[1:13:46] Rotating basis through seasons.

[1:13:49] Whether that's Granados, you have it every weekend.

[1:13:53] For them, that's temporary.

[1:13:56] On a temporary basis or a temporary engagement type?

[1:13:58] Situation. Umm.

[1:14:02] But I could see somebody taking advantage of that too.

[1:14:06] I don't believe I have temporary defined in the ordinance.

[1:14:11] But I think, you know, we rely on the individual who's actually enforcing that ordinance, but.

[1:14:17] If you wanted to keep in temporary as not to exceed.

[1:14:20] A number of individual.

[1:14:24] Engagements.

[1:14:25] Per month, year I mean.

[1:14:27] For example, right off the top of my head, I'm thinking in your code you have the allowance for.

[1:14:33] Garage sales Believe it or not, garage sales are regulated.

[1:14:36] You can only have 3.

[1:14:37] A year.

[1:14:39] That's temporary for garage sales.

[1:14:43] So if you wanted to place a number that.

[1:14:46] I think that would be.

[1:14:47] Beneficial might potentially for at least the Planning Commission of the public's point of view.

[1:14:52] That could be something that you could recommend the City Council to come up with.

[1:14:56] Umm, but right now, the way it's written.

[1:15:00] I believe for, at least from my point of view, I can use that term.

[1:15:05] To enforce something that's occurring.

[1:15:08] Regularly or more than temporary.

[1:15:11] Would sorry go?

[1:15:14] Would it be helpful to?

[1:15:15] Sort of spell out.

[1:15:17] That we like, we know that there's some sort of interaction so.

[1:15:23] Five different.

[1:15:25] Umm businesses wanted to host an event on the same night.

[1:15:29] That impact will be higher, even though it's temporary for all of them, and that might need to be mitigated in a different way

[1:15:32] that if they.

[1:15:36] You know, rolled it out once per week or was on a different night.

[1:15:39] And allow you to do that? Or is that not?

[1:15:41] That's just so rigid that we don't need to do that.

[1:15:45] I think the only way to do that would be through a conditional use permit.

[1:15:50] I mean, really, this is where my mind's at, like.

[1:15:53] I'm all about what Steinway's doing, just to be clear.

[1:15:56] I think it's great.

[1:15:57] Right, beautiful piano studio if you haven't been in there like it's a great gallery and.

[1:16:02] I would love to do a recital there if I had the talent to be worthy of it, right?

[1:16:07] That being said.

[1:16:09] What we're doing with the text amendment now.

[1:16:11] Opens the door for a lot of things in the future.

[1:16:15] And that's why I just like to make sure there's the checks, balances and some kind of guardrails on some of the ambiguity so you

[1:16:18] don't have someone coming in and.

[1:16:23] Being a bad.

[1:16:26] Or maybe not even intentionally, but causing a problem.

[1:16:30] Because of that ambiguity.

[1:16:32] I mean, John, is there a way to do a trial run?

[1:16:35] Before this is codified.

[1:16:38] Definitely you and see if there's a that we can work the bugs out by just having a few of these.

[1:16:44] You there are in theory and in practice there has been.

[1:16:49] Sunset dates to ordinances to have them forcibly be re reviewed by.

[1:16:54] The the city.

[1:16:56] OK, you can have that in the text number to say up until.

[1:17:00] December of 2027 this is your ordinance and upon which time it will expire until and then it gets re reviewed.

[1:17:07] Yes.

[1:17:08] Yeah, OK.

[1:17:10] With that and the way it's written now, these are allowable.

[1:17:14] These are allowable accessory uses, not conditional use. They wouldn't come before us, but we could put a sunset and be like in

[1:17:18] two years we talk to you guys and say.

[1:17:23] Did it work?

[1:17:24] That would be one option. The other option is to look at your table.

[1:17:27] And change the P to C.

[1:17:29] And that just.

[1:17:30] Forces it to come straight to you.

[1:17:32] To talk about these things, I don't know. I don't want to overdo it. We don't want it.

[1:17:36] Reviewing every.

[1:17:38] Recital.

[1:17:40] That we hope you're getting.

[1:17:43] Because that could.

[1:17:44] That could eat up entire meetings.

[1:17:46] Yeah. And also I think it makes the timeline for for.

[1:17:49] The business for business could even get approval on it. Yeah, that's.

[1:17:53] I mean we want holiday to be easy to do business with and in.

[1:17:57] Right. Like like.

[1:17:58] I get it again.

[1:18:00] What the applicants are proposing?

[1:18:02] I'm all about it. I think it's great.

[1:18:04] It's just the people that aren't the applicants that could.

[1:18:07] Potentially go.

[1:18:09] You know, I'm I'm of the opinion you give an inch, they take a mile and I'm just trying to think like, OK, how do we keep that

[1:18:12] mile from getting taken?

[1:18:19] I think the sunset date is.

[1:18:21] It is an interesting concept.

[1:18:23] I don't believe this Planning Commission or even the previous has.

[1:18:25] I haven't looked at doing it have done anything like that since.

[1:18:29] For quite a while.

[1:18:30] I think it's it's useful.

[1:18:33] Especially if you're treading waters that you've never.

[1:18:36] Before well, it just seems like there's a lot of openness in this.

[1:18:40] As far as temporary?

[1:18:42] You know, volume of noise, all this other stuff.

[1:18:45] And the types of events.

[1:18:47] So I'm fine with the sunset if you want to do that. Otherwise I'll let staff just.

[1:18:53] Be in charge of this and.

[1:18:55] You can come back to us with changes if you find that it's losing, it's getting out of control or.

[1:19:01] It's working perfectly so.

[1:19:04] Yeah, I'm trying to think of what another word could potentially be just replaced there. That would be simple.

[1:19:13] I mean striking temporary and putting in limited basis.

[1:19:17] Um, or.

[1:19:22] You're similarly squashy though.

[1:19:24] Infrequent. I mean, what? They're all whatever.

[1:19:28] Adjective. You replace it with. It's still going to be ambiguous, right? Got super technical.

[1:19:33] 9:00 to 5:00.

[1:19:36] You know every.

[1:19:38] Considering it on a full year's worth of hours.

[1:19:42] 20%.

[1:19:43] Your open hours during the year.

[1:19:46] That's quantifiable.

[1:19:47] Something like that. I mean, that's super arbitrary.

[1:19:50] Right, that's what I was thinking too. Something that is.

[1:19:53] That in the code.

[1:19:55] Calls to like.

[1:19:56] In relation to the nature of the business, which is what you're getting to with the.

[1:20:02] The percentage of open hours than.

[1:20:04] This.

[1:20:05] Maybe just changing the text to in relation to the nature of?

[1:20:09] The how the business is operating.

[1:20:14] Meaning if they're open for.

[1:20:16] 30 hours a week at some proportion 60 hours a week, whatever it is.

[1:20:20] Or is that type of business?

[1:20:22] Because I think we get into all kinds of troubles if we start.

[1:20:27] You know, it's like reading out certain uses.

[1:20:31] That, we think is inappropriate. That isn't.

[1:20:34] To some people or.

[1:20:35] Yeah, if we're arbitrating taste.

[1:20:37] Right. Well, and that's why I think we ought to just let this.

[1:20:40] Get this started and start seeing how it's working and.

[1:20:44] See if there's problems and we've repair those at another point because you can dictate.

[1:20:49] Coming back to us and saying looks like we've had problems.

[1:20:52] Here we need to modify this or tighten it up here.

[1:20:56] We don't even need to do a sunset. We can just let the staff determine whether it's working or not and come back to us. Yeah.

[1:21:01] Is that workable enough?

[1:21:02] For you and staff.

[1:21:04] Definitely.

[1:21:04] OK, I mean.

[1:21:05] Well, I yeah, and I would fully expect that the Council would have that opinion as well.

[1:21:10] You know, because I think they want.

[1:21:12] This kind of.

[1:21:12] Of activity and business.

[1:21:15] To be in holiday.

[1:21:16] So.

[1:21:19] Can I ask one more question that's about the high intensity even though it's not?

[1:21:22] Currently applicable anywhere.

[1:21:26] Umm.

[1:21:29] How does this?

[1:21:31] I'm thinking specifically of the kiln.

[1:21:34] In the holiday hills.

[1:21:37] Which is.

[1:21:38] Explicitly sort of multi use. You can rent rooms there for.

[1:21:42] Work but also.

[1:21:43] Stand up comedy specifically or.

[1:21:46] I don't know a magic show. Does that layer on to what they allow already in their space because they're already zoned for that.

[1:21:53] Does that change what they're allowed to do?

[1:21:56] No, I think it would refine.

[1:21:58] Whatever they're doing right now to bolster the fact that that just.

[1:22:03] Encourages it.

[1:22:04] To.

[1:22:06] Right now.

[1:22:07] They they have some of those types of events, special events.

[1:22:10] With.

[1:22:11] Alcohol or wine tastings?

[1:22:14] Which they have to still have to go through.

[1:22:15] The city and the state, anyway.

[1:22:18] But if they were to have.

[1:22:21] A live act that was either admission or.

[1:22:23] Or not, Umm.

[1:22:26] Entertainment is already built into the SDMP as a land use, so that would be considered already something that they could do.

[1:22:33] So they don't, they don't need to come back to us and ask for this high intensity to be zoned on there because it already.

[1:22:40] A lot of those events already exist.

[1:22:42] Yeah, right. The the idea here is that this is.

[1:22:47] This is ancillary, so this would be an accessory too. So for example if.

[1:22:52] The store or.

[1:22:54] That's not a very good example.

[1:22:57] Fly fishing tack.

[1:22:59] Yeah, flight. Oh yeah, sure.

[1:23:02] Flight tech wanted to have.

[1:23:03] Magic show.

[1:23:05] As an accessory, use continually as they just to get people in the door.

[1:23:10] They can have it as an accessory use to their.

[1:23:13] Right, so essentially there's 2 uses happening in one space.

[1:23:18] Under this or currently they can do that.

[1:23:23] I don't even think currently they could do something like that.

[1:23:28] But they would have to have this text amendment applied to their.

[1:23:32] Zone.

[1:23:34] In order to.

[1:23:35] Facilitate something like that.

[1:23:37] And that, that's a really good point.

[1:23:41] In the at the end of this year and pretty much.

[1:23:43] The beginning of all of next, I think I mentioned that you'll be reviewing.

[1:23:47] All of Title 13.

[1:23:49] Which would be of excellent.

[1:23:50] Time to bring this back and let you know whether or not it's working.

[1:23:54] And that would be the time we would start looking at other zones that to apply.

[1:23:58] High intensity use.

[1:24:00] Accessory use.

[1:24:02] In other zones.

[1:24:04] So that chart is you.

[1:24:05] Go down to the chart, you'd start to fill in the zones.

[1:24:08] Where it would be permitted?

[1:24:09] Or not allowed at all.

[1:24:11] Like your residential zones, that would not be something that you'd want there.

[1:24:16] I see. So if a business has.

[1:24:18] This kind of thing as their primary use.

[1:24:20] That's already fine. That's covered. It's those accessory uses that this is specifically addressing, right? So in your PO zone,

[1:24:24] for example, that's only professional office. Uh-huh.

[1:24:29] But if they wanted for their clients or whomever.

[1:24:31] You know a comedy act in there You could add accessory.

[1:24:34] Arts and culture high intensity to.

[1:24:37] The PO zone.

[1:24:39] OK, great.

[1:24:41] That's helpful.

[1:24:43] I would hope there would be parameters in like.

[1:24:45] Size space that would allow high intensity.

[1:24:49] Right, like you wouldn't let.

[1:24:50] High intensity move into the old Wendy's.

[1:24:53] Yeah, and we would need to look at parking, yeah.

[1:24:56] Absolutely.

[1:24:57] Right.

[1:25:00] OK, what do we feel? Oh, and it is a public hearing. I'm sorry. We're just like way over here and I'm.

[1:25:06] Lost in my own mind thinking of a family fishing magician over here. It's great. Was there anyone else here tonight that wanted to

[1:25:11] make comment on the public hearing for this?

[1:25:16] OK. We'll go ahead and close the public hearing then.

[1:25:22] So that said.

[1:25:23] Do we feel like.

[1:25:25] For a motion on this to night, we want to add a revisit or a sunset. Or do we just want to?

[1:25:30] Let it go and City will let us know if there's.

[1:25:33] Issues umm.

[1:25:35] Let's just let it go.

[1:25:36] We want to add that outdoor for the low intensity.

[1:25:41] I'm keeping track, so I do have an amendment.

[1:25:43] On line 19 to add outdoor.

[1:25:47] There's a caveat for the outdoor though, wasn't it?

[1:25:50] Based on noise or yeah, we can.

[1:25:54] We can put in.

[1:25:56] A reference to the noise ordinance as well, yes.

[1:26:01] Do we need to mention that?

[1:26:03] Amendment, then, when we.

[1:26:06] Yeah, OK.

[1:26:09] And I assume this goes without having to put it in there but like.

[1:26:12] Someone doing an outdoor.

[1:26:16] Concert photography, whatever they're doing under this amendment.

[1:26:20] They still have to like.

[1:26:22] Mitigate like cutting off the sidewalk and preventing access and those kind of things, yes.

[1:26:28] Yeah, yeah.

[1:26:32] I just want to make sure we don't have to call that out safety first.

[1:26:35] Yeah, OK.

[1:26:38] I'm ready, go for it.

[1:26:41] I, Commissioner Prince, moved to forward to the City Council a recommendation to approve.

[1:26:45] A joint proposal by holiday business owners and community and economic development staff.

[1:26:51] To amend various sections of Title 13 as they pertain to defining and permitting.

[1:26:56] Arts and cultural land uses.

[1:26:59] As accessory uses.

[1:27:01] Based upon the following findings.

[1:27:03] That the amendment.

[1:27:06] Findings one through 4.

[1:27:08] Plus the.

[1:27:11] Outdoor to.

[1:27:13] Line 19.

[1:27:15] 19 Arts and culture low intensity.

[1:27:19] And a reference to the noise with with a reference to the noise ordinance.

[1:27:24] I second.

[1:27:25] Commissioner Gong has seconded. Will call for a vote. Commissioner Barron.

[1:27:28] Hi, Mr. Gone.

[1:27:30] Aye, Mr. Prince, aye.

[1:27:31] Mr. Trippany Aye and Chair Roach votes.

[1:27:34] So Next up.

[1:27:36] City Council.

[1:27:37] Thank you.

[1:27:38] Next up party.

[1:27:42] All right, that takes us to the third action item tonight, which is the approval of minutes.

[1:27:49] We have to approve.

[1:27:51] Four different sets of minutes. I think I did this before though. We can do the all in favor thing, right?

[1:27:56] Yeah, we're going to rock right through this. So Chair Roach is going to broke protocol and I'm just going to go ahead and make

[1:28:00] these motions one at a time and we're going to fly through them.

[1:28:05] I make a motion to approve minutes from 5526. All in favor. Aye aye. Any opposed?

[1:28:11] OK. And I'll make motion Approved minutes 51926 all in favor, aye?

[1:28:17] Aye, any opposed?

[1:28:19] OK. And.

[1:28:21] Make a motion to approve.

[1:28:23] Minutes, 6226. All in favor? Aye aye. Any opposed?

[1:28:28] All right, and I make a motion to approve minutes 6/16/26. All in favor. Aye aye. Any opposed?

[1:28:36] And there takes our minutes. So that leaves us with the 4th and final item on our agenda tonight, which is the election.

[1:28:44] Of Planning Commission chair and vice chair, this says 26 to 28, but doesn't it only have to be for one year?

[1:28:52] Like I know they.

[1:28:53] It's, it's one year, OK.

[1:28:56] This is 26 to 27. Your three years would be your term.

[1:29:00] But your chair reserves for one year.

[1:29:03] Vice Chair Service for one year.

[1:29:06] And I know.

[1:29:08] I believe Vice Chair had some questions about language on that, so I'm going to turn that over to you.

[1:29:13] Yes, I.

[1:29:15] Think it is.

[1:29:17] Something we should consider that if.

[1:29:19] The Planning Commission is.

[1:29:23] Happy with the performance of the.

[1:29:26] Existing chair, The current chair that they be allowed to.

[1:29:30] Be nominated to serve another term and that they should not be term limited and I wanted to discuss that.

[1:29:40] That seems reasonable to me.

[1:29:43] Is that I was waiting for John to say something, but he didn't say anything and neither Terry. So is that a law change though that

[1:29:46] would have to happen?

[1:29:50] I would recommend that you actually go in and change their bylaws.

[1:29:54] I don't have that.

[1:29:56] Noted or noticed as an amendment.

[1:29:59] Can you?

[1:30:00] But Terry, can you scroll to the bottom of the packet for us? I think it's on page 81.

[1:30:04] Or 82.

[1:30:06] That we're talking about.

[1:30:09] There you go, section B.

[1:30:12] Your your chair and vice chair term is one year.

[1:30:15] More than two consecutive.

[1:30:17] Terms.

[1:30:18] So that's so limiting.

[1:30:24] Just want to make sure you have other individuals who would like to have the opportunity to learn from fantastic examples and role

[1:30:28] models how to take over.

[1:30:33] Continue.

[1:30:34] I mean, that's true.

[1:30:38] I mean.

[1:30:38] Could it be that if?

[1:30:41] Could we suggest an amendment then that?

[1:30:44] If umm.

[1:30:46] No other.

[1:30:48] Commissioners are interested.

[1:30:52] In taking over the chair responsibility, it can be foregone for an extra year.

[1:30:57] That would be defendable.

[1:30:59] Yes. So it's not infinite terms, but like a third term. So unless somebody's like, gosh, I really want to just do that. That was

[1:31:05] like so much fun every meeting. Like if everybody's like, no, I'm good. I like sitting in my corner and doing my thing.

[1:31:12] Like we could.

[1:31:13] Then allow the chair to continue for.

[1:31:16] One year, two years.

[1:31:17] Indefinitely until someone wants someone kicks them off.

[1:31:20] I think maybe just one partly because if each term is 3 years.

[1:31:25] So I don't know how the like the rollover dates work.

[1:31:29] Angela's up.

[1:31:30] No, This is why I'm supporting your third time.

[1:31:33] She just knows I'm gone in July next year but I am trying to think about like.

[1:31:37] How much of the Planning Commission rules over every year?

[1:31:41] And how would you layer on because I actually do think it would be helpful to have some, you know?

[1:31:46] At some point, some change, partly because, like you, what you want is like layering leadership, but not.

[1:31:52] But I remember it's about every.

[1:31:54] 4th year that we have a major.

[1:31:58] And are they on?

[1:31:59] Is it like the Senate where like half of it?

[1:32:02] Yes, yes.

[1:32:04] It's staggered 1/3. So you, Angela, both are commissioners gone.

[1:32:09] There were reappointed just recently.

[1:32:11] So you have three-year terms staggered with.

[1:32:15] Chair Roach and Vice Chair Prince, who are are up next summer.

[1:32:20] And then Trifini and Cunningham, he's got a three, three-year and then we have a new one coming on, which would be another

[1:32:23] three-year term.

[1:32:27] Yes.

[1:32:28] So a good stagger.

[1:32:30] OK, so I think 3 is reasonable. I think more than three starts to feel like.

[1:32:33] Than other people might not learn how to do we need to change out the vice chair.

[1:32:38] Every two years.

[1:32:39] Yes, I think changing out the vice chair will provide an opportunity for someone to be trained.

[1:32:45] And to have.

[1:32:46] To dabble.

[1:32:50] Did you say gavel or dabble?

[1:32:52] Both. Little bit of both, yeah.

[1:32:56] Someone took the gavel.

[1:33:00] So if we're going to maintain Dennis as the chair for another year?

[1:33:04] I would recommend that.

[1:33:06] We have Paul Cunningham as the vice chair.

[1:33:09] Oh, what a good.

[1:33:11] 9123, not it.

[1:33:16] All right, does anybody else want to raise their hand?

[1:33:20] So we have a motion.

[1:33:22] I just don't want to sit next to him next.

[1:33:24] He won't. He'll be moving down. Put back over there, OK?

[1:33:32] Come on man, I got candy.

[1:33:34] Yeah, so we have a motion for Commissioner Cunningham as Vice Chair.

[1:33:39] And uh.

[1:33:41] What do we need to do to allow if there's not any?

[1:33:46] Pressing desire.

[1:33:47] To take over as chair.

[1:33:49] Or to nominate.

[1:33:50] Themselves or another person as chair?

[1:33:52] So if there's no nomination to allow the existing chair to, I think you just let that conversation play out and say based upon.

[1:33:58] No nominations or elections, but we just roll over.

[1:34:02] OK anyone want the job?

[1:34:04] So we have a vote of no confidence except for Dennis.

[1:34:09] I think that's essentially where you're at.

[1:34:12] OK, well then I would suggest.

[1:34:16] That since Dennis is doing an excellent job and that none of us.

[1:34:21] Commissioner Trippany. Commissioner. Prince. Commissioner. Gong, Commissioner.

[1:34:24] Want to do?

[1:34:26] Chair, No, thank you.

[1:34:28] That we could.

[1:34:29] Just have Dennis continue. That would be my suggestion.

[1:34:32] Should I make it as a formal motion?

[1:34:34] I Yes.

[1:34:37] I motioned that Dennis stay on.

[1:34:40] Because.

[1:34:41] We like what he's doing.

[1:34:42] Team Dennis.

[1:34:44] And do we need to make the motion with that for?

[1:34:47] Paul Cunningham. Both, yes.

[1:34:49] And that Paul Cunningham be.

[1:34:51] Nominated and sustained as.

[1:34:54] Commissioner, Chair of the Planning Commission, while he is.

[1:34:58] I second that.

[1:34:59] Bless his heart, bless his heart, yes.

[1:35:03] All right, we have a motion in a second.

[1:35:06] Let's start down here. Commissioner Trippany, hi.

[1:35:09] Mr. Prince, Aye.

[1:35:10] Commissioner gone aye, Commissioner, Baron.

[1:35:13] And Chair Roach will abstain, but it's still passes.

[1:35:17] Holy smokes.

[1:35:19] All right. Well, three years, here we go. Yeah, so.

[1:35:22] Everyone to serve.

[1:35:23] Note to self, don't.

[1:35:25] Be absent when the leadership roles go, especially in July or August next year. You know what's coming.

[1:35:33] All right. Well, that takes us to the conclusion. If there's no further business, I will make a motion to adjourn. All in favor,

[1:35:37] aye. Anyone want to stay?

Planning Commission Meeting

Agenda

Transcript