[0:21] Well, I guess we have quite a crowd, so we started a little early. Maybe we'll

[0:26] get out a little early tonight. want to call the meeting to order.

[0:31] We have a roll call here.

[0:39] » Councilman Yansy >> here.

[0:41] » Councilman Miller >> here. Councilman Hiller

[0:44] » here. >> Councilman Turner

[0:46] » here. >> Council member Reigns

[0:48] » here. >> Council member Vickers

[0:50] » here. >> Council member Dawson

[0:52] » here. Council member Draper >> here. Mayor here. stand here.

[1:00] » Okay. Can you stand for the pledge of >> allegiance

[1:08] to the flag and to the republic for its one nation?

[1:24] Dear Lord, guide our hearts, our souls, and our minds into a future of love,

[1:30] caring, and belief. Thank you for sending our children here tonight so

[1:34] that they can see what goes on. And let's back them in a future that is

[1:39] bright, joyful, and safe. Amen. >> Amen.

[1:43] » Amen. >> Amen.

[1:57] minutes from council meeting September 22nd, 2025.

[2:01] Mayor Deair called the meeting to order at 6:12 p.m. Roll call was taken. All

[2:05] council members were present. The mayor recorded treasur and the city attorney

[2:08] were also present. All stood for the pledge of allegiance and mayor Delair

[2:11] performed their invocation prayer. Judge Holly Meyer was invited by the mayor to

[2:15] speak. She is running for reelection for circuit judge. She explained her

[2:19] qualifications. The meeting minutes from the city council meeting August 25th,

[2:23] 2025 were read by the recorded treasur. Motion to accept the minutes was made by

[2:28] council member Miller and seconded by council member Hiller. Minutes were

[2:30] approved by voice bolt. Meeting minutes from the city council special meeting

[2:34] August 14th, 2025 were read by the recorded treasurer. Motion to accept the

[2:38] minutes was made by council member Reigns and and seconded by council

[2:41] member Draper. Minutes were approved by voice vote. Treasuries report. The

[2:46] record treasurer made comments about expenses versus revenues for August.

[2:49] There was an issue with entering credit card transactions before the end of the

[2:52] month would cause revenues to be low. A question was asked about freed up funds

[2:56] and the mayor answered that this was the label given to the bank account where

[2:59] the ARPA funds went when they were freed up. Motion to accept the treasurer's

[3:03] report was made by council member Miller and seconded by council member Hiller.

[3:07] The report was approved by voice.

[3:13] » Committee reports. The motion to accept committee reports was made by council

[3:16] member Dawson and seconded by council member Miller. The reports were approved

[3:19] on voice vote. Old business. Mayor Delair presented his veto of ordinance

[3:23] 2025-20. He stated that the city had existed with three signitories for over

[3:27] 50 years. There was discussion about checks that the mayor has refused to

[3:31] pay. A motion was made by council member Miller and seconded by council member

[3:34] Vickers to override the veto. The motion passed unanimously by roll call vote.

[3:39] Mayor Delair presented his veto of the approved motion to hire Cody Keys to

[3:43] defend the city in lawsuit 33CV-25-17.

[3:47] Motion was made by council member Miller and seconded by council member Reigns to

[3:50] override the veto. The motion passed by roll call vote 8 to zero. Ordinance

[3:55] 20259 was read for the second time. This ordinance sets a policy for retention of

[3:59] public meeting recordings. New business resolution 2025-30 was read by the

[4:04] recorded treasur. This resolution gives council approval to apply for a grant to

[4:08] improve the community building. Motion was made by council member Dawson and

[4:11] seconded by council member Hiller to approve the resolution. The motion

[4:14] passed by voice vote. Resolution 2025-31 was read by the recorded treasur. This

[4:19] resolution authorizes the mayor to enter into an agreement with the with White

[4:22] River Planning and Development to provide administrative services for the

[4:25] grant. Motion was made by council member Dawson and second by council member

[4:29] Hiller to approve the resolution. The motion passed by voice vote. The record

[4:33] treasurer explained that in order to proceed with the grant application, an

[4:36] asbestous study needs to be done in the building. The cost is $500 plus $20 a

[4:40] test. A motion was made by council member Miller and seconded by council

[4:43] member Vickers to approve this study at a price not exceeding $1,000

[4:48] from the parks and recreation fund. The motion passed by voice vote. Resolution

[4:53] 2025-32 was read by the recorded treasur. This resolution allows the city

[4:57] to pursue a 7525 grant from the Arkansas Division of Emergency Manage Management

[5:02] to have a backup generator installed at the community building. This would allow

[5:05] a potential safe place for residents to gather in an emergency. A motion was

[5:09] made by council member Dawson and seconded by council member Hiller to

[5:12] approve the resolution. The motion passed by voice. Public comments. Tommy

[5:16] Billingsley announced that he is forced to cancel the tournament he was working

[5:19] on. Uriah me talked about the boy scout building and the need to finish the

[5:23] renovation project started last year. He had solicited bids from contractors and

[5:27] delivered delivered those to the mayor. Carol Spencer asked council member

[5:31] Miller how long he knew about the grant and asked if a survey had been done.

[5:34] There was no server in M survey and Mr. Miller knew about the grant for a few

[5:38] weeks. Council member Miller outlined a long list of issues with the actions and

[5:42] inactions of the mayor. He made a motion for a vote of no confidence against the

[5:45] mayor. There was some heated discussion. The motion was seconded by council

[5:49] member Draper. The motion passed by roll call vote 8 to zero. There was a brief

[5:53] discussion about a complaint that was given to all council members. It appears

[5:57] to be a Facebook argument between residents. Jeff Reigns took offense to

[6:00] the mayor's assertion that it is a violation of health codes to have dogs

[6:03] at a beach. There was a brief argument. Dan Robinson has stated that we

[6:09] shouldn't accept bids that were obtained privately and without a proper

[6:12] specification referring to the bids delivered by your IME. A specification

[6:16] will be developed by Dan and an ad will be put in the paper for next week.

[6:20] Motion to adjurnn was made by council member Hiller, seconded by council

[6:23] member Dawson. Motion passed by voice vote. Meeting adjourned at 7:32 p.m.

[6:31] Okay. Any comments, additions, questions for discussion?

[6:49] Okay. Do we have a motion to approve the amendment? Says red. So move. Do I have

[6:54] a second? >> Second.

[6:57] » Okay. Roll call vote, please. >> Council member Yansy,

[7:01] » yes. >> Council member Miller,

[7:03] » yes. >> Council member Hiller,

[7:05] » yes. >> Council member Turner,

[7:07] » yes. >> Council member Reigns,

[7:09] » yes. >> Council member Vickers,

[7:10] » yes. >> Council member Dawson,

[7:12] » yes. Council member Draper, >> yes.

[7:16] Okay, the minister accept.

[7:20] Treasures report. Does anybody have any questions about

[7:24] Epson's finance committee? Maybe

[7:30] not. >> Comments.

[7:49] Are we going to hear a report or not? >> We don't read the report, Missy. It's a

[7:56] bunch of numbers. It's all it is. >> Oh my. I'm not entitled to know those.

[8:02] » They'll be posted outside.

[8:08] Has

[8:14] everybody had a chance to look over the treasures report?

[8:20] » Yes, I know. >> Does anybody have any comments,

[8:22] questions, changes to the treasures report?

[8:25] » No. >> Is there anybody changed since the fire

[8:30] to the mall that we've seen in numbers? Nothing so far because this is actually

[8:36] September number. So the room isn't any kind of receding yet.

[8:54] » And we're at $456,12655

[9:00] for parks and wreck >> at the end of September. That's correct.

[9:03] All right. And is that the balance or that's

[9:06] money we've actually collected for the fee?

[9:08] » That's the balance.

[9:12] » I believe I don't know when this was, but the last time I checked it collected

[9:16] just over $500,000.

[9:30] » Okay. Do you have a motion to accept the financial report?

[9:35] » I like that motion. >> Second.

[9:41] » All those in favor, please signify by saying I.

[9:44] » I. >> Oppose say the same.

[9:47] » Financial reports accepted.

[10:03] Committee reports.

[10:15] Any

[10:40] questions on the committee reports? Changes on the committee reports.

[11:13] Okay. Do we have a motion to accept the committee reports?

[11:16] » So move.

[11:21] » We have a second. >> I'll second it.

[11:27] » All those in favor, please signify by saying I. I.

[11:31] » All those opposed, say the same. Committee reports are accepted.

[11:38] old business.

[11:53] » Okay. Pursing on old business veto of ordinance 2025-21.

[12:00] Whereas the city council of Horseshoe Ben has since their first beginning

[12:05] continued to use their legislative power to strip the mayor of his administrative

[12:09] authority. 202501 removed the mayor's authority to hire and fire city

[12:15] employees. 20250 limited the mayor's spending limits. 2511

[12:21] removed the mayor's authority to vote in committees or to break ties and uh

[12:27] forward a motion. 202521 limited the mayor's authority to

[12:32] nominate committee members to council approvals.

[12:37] This nominating committee ordinance is yet another example where the council

[12:41] will use their authority to pack committees likeminded people. This has

[12:46] destroyed the system of checks and balances necessary to asssure the

[12:49] council does not pack the committees with special interest which goes against

[12:53] the law. Whereas the council has actually misused their legislative

[12:57] authority to remove citizens and taxpayers from committees and

[13:02] commissions without cause. Whereas the city council has misused their authority

[13:07] to order to remove good and honest citizens. Ordinance 2025-12

[13:13] removed Eric Bratz from the planning commission. Ordinance 202513

[13:18] removed Gail Fuller from the planning committee. Ordinance 202514

[13:24] and Ordinance 202515 removed the zoning and building committee member Rick

[13:29] Brderick. The removal of these citizens was done

[13:33] without cause in a live Cape City meeting. Council member Brian Miller,

[13:38] when confronted, stated in the public uh committee meeting it was because of a

[13:43] Facebook comments that was made by Gail Puller against some of the actions of

[13:47] the city council. In a taped illegal meeting at the uh mayor's office, David

[13:53] Vickers, Brian Miller, and Shawn Draper were angry over Eric Gretz being put on

[13:58] the planning committee referencing the lawsuit against the city Mr. which Eric

[14:04] Gretz prevailed undeniably proving that the city was illegally taxing the

[14:10] citizens. The court case was resolved under a settlement agreement of the city

[14:16] MRI and the citizens of Horseshoe have been approved by the court. After Brian

[14:22] Miller wrote the ordinance to remove members who were had developed plans for

[14:27] the growth of Horseshoe Ben, he personally went to the local paper and

[14:31] placed a newspaper ad requesting volunteers turning the vacancies on the

[14:36] committee against the mayor after he explicitly with the support of the rest

[14:40] of the council wrote ordinances with emergency clauses to remove committed,

[14:45] capable, and educated individuals from the planning, zoning, and building

[14:49] committees/commission. itions.

[14:53] » Then somehow Raul Johnson, chairman of the zoning committee, went around

[14:57] recruiting people to join the zoning committee with him. Uh is he the mayor,

[15:02] too? We have disenfranchised individuals, canceled out their freedom

[15:08] of expression by arbitrary use of Arkansas code. You had no motive other

[15:14] than personal vendettas to remove Eric, Rick, or Gail. Brian Miller is on record

[15:21] admitting that he wrote the ordinance to remove Gail based on a Facebook post

[15:25] where she expressed her frustration with the council. There's no unwillingness

[15:29] from her to work with the governing body. But Brian's ego is bigger than his

[15:34] appreciation for capable independent thinkers trying to make a difference.

[15:39] Brian further explained that he wrote the ordinance to remove Eric Gratz from

[15:43] the planning committee because his wife went against the piece of legislation he

[15:47] had supported to the senator James Church to allow the city council to

[15:52] forgive or nullify assessments to whom they choose. Silencing distance sending

[15:58] voices is not the business of government. As elected officials, we

[16:03] must be able to accept that we are being scrutinized daily based on our actions.

[16:10] The council has taken actions against citizens exercising constitutional

[16:14] rights and shamefully remove them from volunteer groups. Many people I have

[16:19] asked have confused refused to participate knowing that the council's

[16:24] reputation for dishonesty, hatred and vengeance practices.

[16:29] They further feel because of their beliefs they would not be voted to the

[16:34] committee or commission. >> Council is seeking to stack committees

[16:38] with people who do not pose a threat to their plans from their pack members,

[16:43] people that work at large and local businesses and employees at parks and

[16:47] wreck who have openly attacked individuals who this council removed.

[16:53] This is not grievance. This is tyranny. This is an abuse of power control

[16:58] designed to consolidate authority in the hands of a few while undermining the

[17:03] executive branch and the will of the people.

[17:06] Where this council has destroyed, created a hostile environment, polarized

[17:12] and divided the city further, worsened by their interactions with the public.

[17:17] This ordinance has several purposes. stack the committees, approve massive

[17:22] reszoning plans without the public's participation, plans without dividing

[17:28] the city. The previous council has passed 24 ordinances in two years. This

[17:34] council has passed 21 ordinances in less than 10 months. Most of them designed to

[17:39] take away the mayor's authority to run the city, eliminate citizens involvement

[17:44] with their government. I personally enviably give the council a vote of no

[17:49] confidence, a vote of no trust, and I will not support any ordinance

[17:54] resolution that strips god-given rights away from any citizen of the city. This

[18:00] nominating committee ordinance is made up of council members who will be voting

[18:05] solely on their own choices. This is a total conflict of interest. The

[18:10] nomination of their own is designed to pack the committees with their own

[18:14] chosen members. This ordinance which had to be passed immediately immediately by

[18:21] suspending the rules is harmful to the city. The city's council treatment of

[18:26] the public has further divided the city and made the city vulnerable to further

[18:30] legal actions. As the mayor and the exe in the executive branch by the powers

[18:36] vested in me by Arkansas Code, Arkansas Constitution and the US Constitution, I

[18:42] veto this ordinance to form the nominating committee which the members

[18:46] of the council whom have demonstrated their willingness to personally attack

[18:51] the taxpayers and lead with vengeance and not respect for the law. Dway.

[18:59] » Good job.

[19:13] » Since my name was called several times, like respond to it. Person on page two.

[19:17] When you state that I said that I removed Eric because of his wife's

[19:21] involvement. I have no knowledge of his wife's involvement whatsoever in the

[19:25] legislation I was planning to pass by Starks and Gray.

[19:29] » It's a recording. It's a recorded uh planning committee meeting.

[19:34] » I was there. >> You don't run this meeting, Sean.

[19:36] » Yes. >> You don't run this meeting. Chill,

[19:39] » folks. >> You don't either.

[19:42] » Was there I was there too, >> folks.

[19:48] This is how it's going to work. I want everybody to be able to speak, but we

[19:51] need to do it fairly. Brian can read what he wants to read and make his

[19:56] statements. If other people have comments, I'm more than willing to

[19:59] listen to them. But please let Brian finish his comments and don't interrupt

[20:04] him, please. >> As far as I understand, the the

[20:07] legislation I was pursuing was a way of uh opening up, not forgiving, opening up

[20:13] velocity bought with the assessment restarting. That's what uh Sturge and

[20:19] Gray were trying to do. >> And they was read in committee and was

[20:23] stopped in committee by three individuals from Cherokee Village that

[20:27] attend that reading. And through their opposition, that made the uh individuals

[20:33] uh Sturge and Gray go back and they had an amendment where it could be appealed

[20:37] to city council, but Gray removed her support. I have no knowledge of

[20:43] Mrs. Scots being involved at all. I know about three individuals cuz it was uh uh

[20:50] on a video a zoom and I saw that they interrupted the uh situation and that's

[20:55] why the legislation failed. However, I did state that it was brought

[21:01] to me concerns about uh Gail Fuller's uh postings

[21:08] if that was not the only reason and also involved

[21:14] which I've stated in several meetings including that one that they're

[21:18] referring to when I brought up that someone brought the issues of Gail

[21:21] Fuller that the planning committee was presenting the forgiveness

[21:27] of the back assessments on an area that they were trying to have developed

[21:34] » into industrial park and let people build without paying back assessments.

[21:39] And if you do that for one lot, you have to do it for all and there's $9 million

[21:43] out there. Do I think I can get or this council can get $9 million? I do not

[21:49] » get a million. >> But if we can possibly get 2 million,

[21:52] three million, that's still two or three million more than we have now. back

[21:57] assessment. >> I'm sorry.

[21:58] » Again, my understanding from as it stands right now, the attorney general's

[22:02] opinion, back assessments cannot be forgiven or done away with. They exist

[22:09] » and as such, we should try and collect. But that's those are two falsehoods that

[22:16] were in this veto that I had to address because they're blatantly false. Another

[22:21] reason that we gave a vote of no confidence is due to statements like

[22:24] this that have no grounds. I know other way to express it except

[22:30] that um this kind of backs up as far as this removing the mayor's power. No

[22:36] individual is placed on a committee at any time without the council's approval.

[22:41] past administration, this administration ever a mayor can appoint in before this

[22:48] comm this ordinance and the council had to approve. There never was one member

[22:53] put on any commission or any committee or any board on this in this city that

[22:59] was not approved by the council. All we're doing is trying to open it up to

[23:03] where there's more than one individual making a decision on who gets promoted

[23:08] or who gets put out after applications have been presented. So it's not just

[23:13] one individual funneling. >> And I do have one question for mayor.

[23:17] How many people exist from the committees that were populated when you

[23:22] took office? >> I don't know.

[23:29] As far as I know, only some on the airport commission are the only ones

[23:32] that still exist. All the other committees were vacated

[23:37] » and repopulated with the mayor's appointments. He talks about this. This

[23:41] council is trying to stack the committees. We're just trying to fill

[23:46] the vacancies that have been left open. One namely that's been brought up is

[23:50] MSID. MSID, the mayor has stated his special

[23:54] administrator does not take the place of commissioners.

[23:58] They're in conjunction with commissioners. They're not removed. The

[24:01] special administrator is there and the commissioners are there. However, in

[24:04] MSID, two of the three uh their term has

[24:09] expired. The third has moved out of the city and no longer can be part of the

[24:13] MSID. Therefore, we have three vacancies of

[24:16] commissioners. When asked, he stated publicly, don't meet him because I have

[24:21] my special administrator. Again, special administrator himself in open meetings

[24:25] stated that he would appreciate having the commissioners to help him with the

[24:29] paperwork. It's all it's in record. It's on video. You can hear it for yourself.

[24:35] » When did he say that? >> Okay.

[24:38] » I'm married to him. I never say that. >> Let's do this. Let's Let's move on.

[24:44] Please save your comments for the end and you can come up and talk to the

[24:47] people because I do want to get through all this. It's important that you say

[24:51] what you have to say. Any other comments?

[24:58] » Uh how were the people appointed before we're trying to make a committee to put

[25:02] these individuals a group of eight instead of one? You were selecting them

[25:06] personally, right? You you would take a person yourself and put them on a

[25:11] committee. >> You decided to say that eight to

[25:14] » wrong. >> How would you do that then? I was doing

[25:16] it by talking with the people on the committees and then we selected people

[25:20] and we're going to do it that way again. We're going to talk to the people that

[25:23] are on the committees, ask them about these people and that's what the airport

[25:27] committee does. Now, I don't know what happened to Mike Smith because he was

[25:32] supposedly set up to go to the airport committee. I don't see his name in this

[25:36] new list, but he was a commissioner before. Uh they're more than willing to

[25:41] take Mike back and they're more than willing to talk with him. and they had

[25:44] talked with two other people. I don't know if their names are in here or not,

[25:48] but I talked to them today. And then yes, I make an appointment for them to

[25:52] the committee. Now, you guys can vote them either up or down, however you want

[25:57] to. That's how it works. And that's the checks and balances,

[26:01] » right? >> And that's why we need that.

[26:03] » And I believe that's what it says. The mayor appoints, you guys vote in. But

[26:08] the truth is the committee, it's those people. I talked to the committees.

[26:15] » Any other questions, comments?

[26:24] » Since Mike Smith's name is brought up, he asked his name be pulled due to the

[26:27] uh political situation.

[26:34] » I haven't talked with Mike, but I will call him.

[26:50] Okay. The next veto we >> pardon.

[26:55] » I make a motion we override this veto. >> Okay.

[27:05] » Okay. Roll call, please. Yes. Yes.

[27:10] » Council member Hansy. >> Yes.

[27:11] » Council member Miller. >> Yes.

[27:13] » Council member Hiller. >> Yes.

[27:15] » Council member Turner. >> Yes.

[27:16] » Council member Reigns. >> Yes.

[27:18] » Council member Vickers. >> Yes.

[27:20] » Council member Dawson. >> Yes.

[27:21] » Council member Draper. >> Yeah.

[27:23] » You are a joke. >> The veto's over ready.

[27:27] » Next veto. >> I hate these people. Yeah.

[27:32] » This is not a permission. >> Next veto. Uh resolution 202533

[27:40] of mandamus on 2425

[27:45] I retain the legal services of Bradley McBride and Kimberly Dale of Thompson

[27:50] warmth Dale and Butler professional associations of paragold.

[27:56] This was about ordinance 202501 on January 3rd 2025. Brian Miller of

[28:02] Ward One, Luther Yansy of Ward One, and Travis Reigns of Ward Three called a

[28:07] special meeting. They wanted to have this meeting on January 2nd, the night

[28:12] they were actually sworn in. I, however, with the city attorney told them this

[28:16] was illegal as it was not advertised and no formal agenda had been approved.

[28:22] Ordinance 20251 amended title 2 of the Horseshoe Ben

[28:27] Municipal Code section 2.6004 16004 recorded treasure. Mr. Miller stated the

[28:33] power to hire and fire employees has been taken away from the treasure

[28:37] recorder. This was an absolute lie as the attachment of the

[28:43] uh to the veto shows uh C veto 1925. This information was provided the

[28:51] attorneys who informed me not to sign the ordinance. The veto was overturned

[28:56] by the council but was not published in the newspaper for many weeks. My

[29:01] attorney still advised me that once overturned the veto became law upon them

[29:07] publishing it. Ordinances, resolution and motions which were constitutional I

[29:13] believe to be legal I signed and I signed a lot of ordinances and stuff. So

[29:18] the idea I wasn't signing all these ordinances is assessment. Ordinance

[29:22] 202502 parks and wreck fee. I signed although I didn't agree with the

[29:28] ordinance for the outrageous fee of $80 per lot. I signed that ordinance as

[29:33] though I've signed many others. Mr. Vanderpass in his letter to the

[29:38] prosecuting attorney misled him to believe I was not signing any absolute

[29:43] lie. In June 2025, I decided not to utilize Dale and McBride since that time

[29:50] uh have overlooked another law firm. During this time, Mr. Sykes had said

[29:58] that I should sign any items not done. I told him my attorneys at that time had

[30:05] uh >> distinguished between agenda items

[30:09] passed and those vetoed for cause. I did ask Mr. site what would apply if I

[30:15] vetoed the items. Should I be forced to sign something I felt was illegal,

[30:19] unconstitutional, and then would I also be sued with the

[30:24] council? The Arkansas code 1444107b contains the mayor's authority to veto

[30:31] within 5 days, Sundays excluded. After the action the council there on it

[30:38] further states the council can vote by twothirds of all council members to

[30:42] overturn the veto. And you've seen that happen here and that will happen with

[30:46] this one too. Uh on August 18th 2025 I sent out a foyer request to the

[30:53] following Brad Sites to the city attorney to Drew Smith district

[30:58] prosecutor John Wilkinson the municipal league. I am requesting the Arkansas law

[31:03] that says a mayor must sign ordinances he has vetoed. I was informed by legal

[31:09] counsel I didn't have to sign these. The only response I received was from Drew

[31:15] Smith who said foyas do not apply to criminal investigations. At which time I

[31:21] found out I guess I was under criminal investigation.

[31:24] At this point, September 8th, 2025, I contacted Senator John Payeyton,

[31:30] informing him of the problem and asking for his help, explaining the situation

[31:34] with Mr. Miller, Mr. Vanderpass, trying to get me arrested and removed from

[31:39] office. >> In fact, a host of documents now uh

[31:43] exist showing the council's attack on myself and the office of the mayor. 2025

[31:49] 01 removed hiring. 03 authority to on the Facebook page. 06 parks and recck

[31:57] director authority. 08 uh stop the reading group at the library. 09 limits

[32:03] the mayor's spending limits. 010 ordinance on data scout. 01 ordinance on

[32:08] the mayor's right to vote on committees. and 20 adds finance committee chair as a

[32:15] force signature uh to go around the mayor's authority.

[32:20] The mayor's spending authority is clearly located in Arkansas 158303 as

[32:25] well as contracts ACA1458303

[32:31] and the opinion of the attorney general 20002-93.

[32:36] I apologize for the boringness of this. On September 16th, 2025, I received an

[32:42] email from Drew Smith, district prosecutor. He had obviously not been

[32:47] informed of my request to the attorney general, to provide a ruling on the

[32:51] obvious question. When the governor votes a bill and Congress overturns the

[32:56] veto, by overturning it, it becomes law on their vote. The governor does not

[33:01] sign that bill. It doesn't happen with the president. It is my belief that by

[33:07] me forced to sign illegal unconstitutional ordinances,

[33:11] resolutions, and motions that makes me a part of any lawsuit. This is not about

[33:18] me signing regular business. It's about hateful, hostile council hellbent on

[33:24] forcing me from office as a vendetta for the removal of MRI.

[33:30] and it's still going on with MRI >> and the people that stand behind it.

[33:35] They haven't gone anywhere. >> The very same players are indeed behind

[33:40] all this. I have consulted legal counsel and I've been told if I vetoed it, I

[33:47] don't have to sign them. I have foyed three attorneys as the law that says

[33:53] once I vetoed it resolution, I must sign it. No response.

[33:58] This is a total waste of taxpayers money, something the council has

[34:02] repeatedly done. Many of their actions have and will result in future lawsuits.

[34:08] It is not in the best interest of the citizens of Horseshoe Bend to waste time

[34:12] or money. This council is an embarrassment to the city and the people

[34:17] they claim to represent. Clearly, Mr. Vanderpass and Mr. Miller and the

[34:22] council are aware. I've talked with council and I have sought the help of

[34:25] legislators and the attorney general and everybody was aware of this yet they

[34:31] spent $5,000 and I do have a writ a mandamus that an attorney is going to

[34:37] have to answer in 30 days and then I'll present the evidence for all the things

[34:41] I have actually signed versus the things that I haven't yet. No one has actually

[34:46] given me a decision about a vetoed thing, but the attorney general is

[34:50] working on that. And as soon as the attorney general informs me and Senator

[34:55] Payton, I will let you all know. Guaranteed. And if he tells me to sign

[35:00] it, I certainly will indeed sign it.

[35:20] Make a motion over.

[35:26] » Do you have a second?

[35:30] » Okay. >> I have a comment. I live in W two. Are

[35:36] you voting according to what you want or what the people in W?

[35:42] » This is not perfect. It's not appropriate

[35:46] » really. >> They represent

[35:48] everybody in war two. >> No, but there's 90% too.

[35:54] » My opinion has not been asked and neither did anyone else that I know of

[35:57] that lives in W 2 or any other war in this city.

[36:02] » You represent the people who live in W. Don't even

[36:08] » I know there's a motion in the floor. >> Mine makes fun of things. Okay, I'd like

[36:14] you to comment when we get to the comment section. You're more than

[36:17] welcome to do that. >> Uh I also know that Carol Spencer has

[36:21] asked for a hearing and we do need to have a hearing and in a hearing you can

[36:25] ask any one of these people why they voted the way they voted. That's what a

[36:29] hearing is for. >> No.

[36:31] » Uh that's not really in the setup here. >> Okay. Roll call vote. Council member

[36:37] Yansy. >> Yes.

[36:38] » Council member Miller. >> Yes.

[36:40] » Council member Hiller. Yes. >> Council member Turner.

[36:43] » Yes. >> Council member Reigns.

[36:45] » Yes. >> Council member Pickers.

[36:46] » Yes. >> Council member Dawson.

[36:48] » Yes. >> Council member Draper.

[36:49] » Yes. >> Okay. The veto's overturned.

[36:54] » So now ordinance 20259 regarding the meeting record retention.

[37:01] This will be the third reading.

[37:07] » Mixed up here. Hold up. City for Arkansas Ordinance 2025-9,

[37:13] an ordinance to set the policies and procedures for retention of public

[37:16] meeting records for reproduction and/or inspection. Whereas it is it is

[37:21] necessary for the city of Horseshoe Bend, Arkansas to retain records of

[37:24] public meetings so that the public can have access to those records for at

[37:27] least 5 years. Be it hereby hereby ordained that section one number one

[37:32] except as provided under paragraph five of this section a public meeting shall

[37:35] be recorded in a manner that allows for the capture of sound including without

[37:39] limitation a a sound only recording b a a video recording with sound and picture

[37:44] or c a digital or analog broadcast capable of being recorded. Two, if a

[37:49] member of a governing body attends a public meeting remotely, the remote

[37:52] portion of public meeting that is recorded under paragraph one of this

[37:55] section shall be recorded in the format in which it is conducted. Three, a

[38:00] recording of a public meeting under paragraph one of par or paragraph two of

[38:03] this section shall be maintained by the city of Horseshoe Ben for a minimum of 5

[38:07] years from the date of the public meeting. Four, the recording shall be

[38:11] maintained in a format that be reproduced upon a lawful request. Five.

[38:15] Paragraph one of the section does not apply to a executive sessions or B b

[38:19] volunteer fire departments. Section two. This recording shall be on DVD or other

[38:24] digital format which allows for the city personnel to reproduce said recording

[38:27] upon lawful request.

[38:40] Come on accept. So you know

[38:44] » comments, suggestions.

[38:48] » Ryan makes a motion to accept ordinance 20259.

[38:52] Do I have a second?

[38:57] » Second.

[39:01] » Roll call vote. >> Council member Yansy.

[39:04] » Yes. >> Council member Miller.

[39:07] » Yes. >> Council member Hilliger.

[39:09] » Yes. >> Council member Turner.

[39:11] » Yes. >> Council member Reigns. Yes.

[39:13] » Council member Vickers. >> Yes.

[39:15] » Council member Dawson. >> Yes.

[39:16] » Council member Draper. >> Yes.

[39:19] » Okay. Ordinance 202519 regarding meeting recording retention is passed.

[39:26] » So next time you need to have the camera here and run.

[39:29] » That's right.

[39:33] » Ordinance 2025 >> 22 regarding vote tax.

[39:41] So this is the second reading of this ordinance and we made changes as

[39:47] suggested in one place where it said that the city of Horu Benjority

[39:52] vote changes to the city of Portugu Ben city council by majority vote and we

[39:56] added uh section five which was I think in response to um Spencer's

[40:06] uh suggestion about the base where it says when issuing dock permits the

[40:10] Building committee should apply these rules and regulations also but also must

[40:15] take into consideration the size of the bait and the effect of the proposed dock

[40:18] might have on surrounding properties. So I'll just point that out first before I

[40:22] read it. >> Thank you.

[40:24] Ordinance 2025-22, Ordinance 93-13 amended. An ordinance

[40:30] authorizing the city of Horseshoe Bend to promulgate, reeregulate, enforce

[40:33] standards regarding construction of boat docks, boat houses, and similar

[40:37] structures on lakes owned and operated by the city of Horseshoe Bend. Whereas

[40:41] there have been several meetings and discussions regarding this subject. Now

[40:44] therefore, be it enacted and ordained by the city council of the city of

[40:47] Horseshoe Ben, Arkansas to wit. Section one, the rules and regulations as

[40:51] prescribed by the city of Horseshoe Ben and which are hereby attached are

[40:54] adopted by reference and made part of this ordinance. Section two, these rules

[40:58] and regulations referred to in section one may be subject to revision and

[41:02] change from time to time at the discretion of the city of Horseshoe Ben

[41:05] city council by majority vote. Section three, all provisions of section six of

[41:09] the municipal code of the city of horseshoe ben Arkansas regarding real

[41:13] property may apply to these structures on or in proximity of any of the lakes

[41:17] referred to in the rules and regulations which are owned and operated by the city

[41:21] of Horseshoe Ben. Section four, violation of any of the city of Porsche

[41:24] Ben rules or any section of this ordinance will be subject to the

[41:27] enforcement and penalties as prescribed in section 516 of the municipal code.

[41:32] Section five, when issuing dock permits, the building committee should apply

[41:35] these rules and regulations, but also but must also take into consideration

[41:40] the size of the bay and the effect the proposed dock might have on surrounding

[41:44] properties. Section six, and this ordinance being necessary for the

[41:48] immediate preservation of the public peace, health, and safety, an emergency

[41:51] is hereby declared to exist, and the same shall be in full force in effect

[41:55] immediately after its passage.

[42:04] Okay. Comments, suggestions,

[42:09] discussion.

[42:13] » Are we still waiting on Well, there's still three people waiting

[42:17] for docs. >> I don't believe so.

[42:24] » I make a motion to hear the third time.

[42:30] We have a second.

[42:43] » I'm not really ready. I had read over

[42:50] second

[42:56] lack of a second. All right.

[43:04] So, the next thing I want to go back to

[43:09] » resolution 202528. This didn't get put on the agenda even

[43:14] though I had asked it to be put on the agenda under old business. It's all set.

[43:18] It's all settled business. Sir, we passed the resolution and we applied for

[43:23] the grant. There's not way anybody to get back and put the toothpaste back in

[43:26] the tube.

[43:30] All right. Well, thank you for that information, but that's not what I'm

[43:33] talking about. What I wanted to talk about was a couple of things. Uh the

[43:38] idea that you applied for 648,435 bucks, committed the the city to

[43:46] sustaining that. It was not just for advertising.

[43:50] Uh like you said the last time, that wasn't true at all. But the thing that

[43:55] concerned us, Will you please let me finish speaking?

[43:57] » Yeah, it's absolutely true, sir. >> Will you let me finish speaking?

[44:00] » Did you read the grant? Did you apply for the grant?

[44:02] » Will you let me finish speaking? >> I don't did it.

[44:07] » Be respectful. >> The mayor said that he would interrupt

[44:11] anytime there was something that was incorrect being stated.

[44:16] » He's not a councilman. >> Well, this is the issue. Yeah, he's not

[44:21] a councilman. What I see on here is the seal of the

[44:24] city of Horseshoe Bent. And what I see in the law, it's right

[44:30] here, 1443 401. The mayor shall keep the corporate seal

[44:38] of the city in his or her charge. I want that seal.

[44:43] I want that seal used indiscriminately. There's the law right there if you want

[44:48] to read it.

[44:59] Everybody said the record had forever and ever said that's everybody has said

[45:05] lots of times forever and ever things have been done but that's what the law

[45:08] said there in the highlighted part from the end of the sentence

[45:17] and I'll gladly sign for All right. So, that takes care of that.

[45:23] So, now

[45:27] the veto on the no confidence vote. That's not ve sir. We checked with the

[45:34] city attorney. >> Well, you voted on it.

[45:37] » It doesn't matter. It's not. >> And uh and it's a supreme compression

[45:41] for you to veto it in the first place. So, even if it were ve

[45:45] » Well, then I guess I'll just read my comments. So I

[45:48] » Charlie if this man doesn't keep quiet I want him taken out of

[45:52] » why I want him taken out what

[46:02] » I'm not joking I'm not joking either sir >> stop it to y'all read read your comment

[46:08] mayor read your comment >> I'm trying to do that

[46:11] » read it please >> it's not on the agenda

[46:13] » just let him read it just let him read it

[46:17] meetings. >> You're the one who told me it wasn't

[46:18] legal. >> It's not It's not a veto, but you have

[46:21] to comment on it. He's either going to do it now or later. Why don't we let him

[46:25] go ahead and comment on it now? >> That's That's Is that okay? Or do we

[46:30] want to wait till later in the meeting? He's He's got a right about it.

[46:35] » Do I have a right to put stuff on the agenda?

[46:38] » You don't have a right to veto it. It's It's

[46:40] » Do I have a right to put stuff on the agenda?

[46:43] » Of course. Then the next time put my stuff on the agenda.

[46:47] » I could pull the agenda.

[46:50] » Wow.

[46:57] » To the members of the Horseshoe Ben City Council, the recorder treasure of

[47:01] Horseshoe Ben, the citizens and property owners of Horseshoe Ben. On September

[47:06] 22nd, 2025, the Horseshoe Ben City Council on a motion by Councilman Brian

[47:11] Miller, seconded by Councilman Shawn Draper, introduced and passed a vote of

[47:16] no confidence in the office of the mayor. This action was taken without

[47:21] notice, prior consultation, or public transparency.

[47:26] The resolution was advanced on the basis of assertations that were at best

[47:31] partial truths and at worst outright mischaracterizations.

[47:36] Following this action, local media outlets were provided with accounts that

[47:40] did not reflect the full or accurate record, presenting to the public a

[47:45] distorted narrative of events. This has cast the city of Horseshoe Bend in a

[47:51] misleading, unfavorable light and has undermined confidence in our government.

[47:57] Even more concerning, the city council has effectively stripped the office of

[48:01] the mayor of his statutory duties, directing infringing upon the authority

[48:06] invested in the mayor under Arkansas law. By seizing control of the city

[48:10] finances, brokering a for signatur

[48:17] of expenditures, the council has effectively circumvented the checks and

[48:21] balances designed by law to safeguard the public's funds. This maneuver is not

[48:27] only outside their legislative authority, but it also removes the

[48:31] executive oversight entrusted to the mayor, leaving the taxpayers exposed to

[48:35] potential abuse, mismanagement, and unmonitored depreciation.

[48:40] Further, in overstepping the clear legal boundaries of their office, the council

[48:46] has bound the city to contracts which they hold no statutory authority. As a

[48:52] direct result, Horseshoe Ben is now embroidered in a legal litigation that

[48:57] will likely cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and

[49:01] damages. Resources should be instead invested in infrastructure, services,

[49:06] and the well-being of our citizens. This is not governance. This is vengeance.

[49:12] Acting in resentment, the council has abandoned the solemn oath of office each

[49:17] member swore to uphold. The oath binds us to the Constitution of the United

[49:21] States, the Constitution of the State of Arkansas, and the laws enacted under

[49:26] them. Yet, in their actions, the council has disregarded those obligations in

[49:32] favor of political maneuvering and personal retaliation.

[49:35] Behind the scenes, attempts have been made to have be criminally charged for

[49:42] preserving lawful duties of the mayor. My responsibilities to ensure Horseshoe

[49:47] Ben remains fiscally responsible, transparent, and compliant with state

[49:52] law and constitutional mandates. I have affixed my name to the expenditures,

[49:58] contracts, and ordinances, resolutions that neither benefit the city nor comply

[50:03] to Arkansas statutes, constitutional protections designed to protect

[50:08] corruptions and tyranny, and municipal governor. Excuse

[50:14] me. >> To force or coers the mayor to sign

[50:18] items would in itself constitute an unlawful abuse of power.

[50:23] It is imperative to recall the Arkansas code 1443501

[50:28] empowers the mayor to veto and I'm not going to go into all of it for 5 days.

[50:33] Additionally, article 41 to2 establish principle of separation of powers

[50:38] providing that no branch of government may exist exercise powers belonging to

[50:43] another. The city council is a legislated body of horseshoe bend to not

[50:47] user executive authority revered for the mayor by statute and by the Arkansas

[50:53] constitution. Likewise, the Arkansas Constitution, Article 12 and four,

[50:58] mandates the municipal corporations may exercise only those powers conferred

[51:04] upon them by law when the city council exceeds authority by seizing executive

[51:10] financial control, entering contracts outside its power and undermining

[51:15] statutory authorities of the mayor, it acts in violation of this constitutional

[51:20] limit and places every action in it under legal jeopardy. Accordingly, in

[51:25] pursuit with my statute authority, I hereby exercise the mirror veto under

[51:32] Arkansas Code 1443504. Formally reject the vote of no

[51:37] confidence passed by the Horseshoe Ben City Council on September 225.

[51:43] This veto not merely acts as a defense for the office I hold. that acts as a

[51:47] protection for the people of Horseshoe Ben whose rights, resources, and future

[51:52] are imperiled by this council's actions. The city of Horseshoe Ben deserves a

[51:57] government rooted in transparency, integrity, and accountability, not

[52:02] political retaliation, and unchecked ambition. We must restore the law of

[52:06] balance of authority, reestablish fiscal oversight, and reaffirm a collective

[52:11] oath to serve the people in accordance with the law. respectively submitted

[52:16] Dwayne Clayer. The references are on here.

[52:33] » Detail that that just reaffirms no confidence that that I made personally.

[52:38] Um there there's you just wasted everyone's time for reading all that

[52:43] because the other time to speak >> waste my time. I wanted to hear I wanted

[52:48] to make sure >> it was not a resolution. It was a vote

[52:50] of no confidence. >> Brad, it's not true that there's no such

[52:55] thing as vetoing a vote of no confidence.

[52:57] » Correct. Just so everybody's clear, you cannot veto the vote of no

[53:03] confidence. It was not an order. It was not an ordinance. It was not a

[53:07] resolution. However, the mayor can comment on it. He can call it a veto. He

[53:12] can call it a rose. He can call it whatever he wants to. It's not a veto.

[53:18] It's a comment.

[53:23] » Not a veto. >> So, I guess that's my comment

[53:28] and I'll give you these to keep in the record. So, moving along, new business

[53:36] » 2026 budget

[53:42] So, a copy of where we're at so far in terms of what I've put together is in

[53:45] the thing where it wasn't supposed to be voted on any just future any comments

[53:50] from finance committee or any additions wherever. Um, some probably have to have

[53:56] a working meeting to go through this and see what people want to change. But I

[54:00] put together my best guesses on revenues. Um, the uh column with 2025 in

[54:06] it. Obviously, we're not done with 2025. So I looked at it and made a best

[54:11] estimate based, you know, mathematical estimate of where we'll be at the end of

[54:14] the year. So it's not the budget from last year. The 2025 comment is where I

[54:19] think we'll be at the end of the year for the actual actual numbers. So

[54:25] and have you forwarded all the stuff that you were given by the departments

[54:29] to me >> other than in my estimate you had it was

[54:34] already there. >> All right. So this is all of it here.

[54:38] Yeah, there's a consumer water street is all in there.

[54:44] » All right. All that was done by Chris. >> Yes, I talked to Chris about that.

[54:51] » All right. Resolution 202534

[54:56] setting city III policy. >> So, uh, there they passed a law in

[55:02] August. I think they call it act 848. It requires every city to have an AI

[55:07] policy. As far as what we do with AI, it's probably no different than what you

[55:12] guys do with the AI. If you've got Alexa, if you've got uh Google, what

[55:16] they call Google AI, if you've got Copilot, if you've got spellch check,

[55:20] those are all AI and that's what we do for AI. But the law requires us to have

[55:24] a policy. So I in fact, none of this is really written by me other than to

[55:30] modify it so it fits your bed. So I will read it. Resolution 25 2025-34

[55:37] resolution approving an AI artificial intelligent policy I spelled wrong

[55:42] for city employees and contractors whereas the city council of the city of

[55:46] Horcherin Arkansas is a duly elected governing body of the city authorized to

[55:50] enact ordinances resolutions and other measures pursuant to Arkansas law and

[55:54] whereas Arkansas code annotated 25128 also known as act 848 requires that the

[56:00] city develop a policy in regard to artificial int intelligence. And whereas

[56:04] artificial intelligence is a powerful tool if used properly, but requires

[56:08] oversight and knowledge of its limitations. And whereas artificial

[56:11] intelligence should never be used for improper illegal purposes and therefore

[56:15] be resolved by the city council of the city of Horuguan, Arkansas. Number one,

[56:19] the city council hereby establishes the attached artificial intelligence policy.

[56:23] Number two, the this policy shall be given to all current and future city

[56:26] employees. Number three, the employees signature is required to acknowledge,

[56:30] receipt, and review. I can read the whole policy if you want. It's

[56:35] three pages long >> or

[56:45] so what are you going to do with it? Are you going to read it? Uh

[56:49] » he also wants me to do >> three separate times and give people a

[56:52] chance to read >> a resolution. It only has to be once

[56:56] » I've heard it. Read it. people here. I don't mind reading. I

[57:01] just need a little water.

[57:05] » Number one purpose. This policy establishes guidelines for the

[57:08] authorized and prohibited use of artificial intelligence and automated

[57:12] decision tools by employees and contractors of the city of Horseshoe Ben

[57:16] here and after called the city in compliance with act 848. The CNB

[57:20] Arkansas can Arkansas annotated 251128. Definitions. Artificial intelligence. A

[57:26] machine-based system that based that based on human defined objectives can

[57:30] make predictions, recommendations, or decisions influencing real or virtual

[57:34] environments. Automated decision tool. A system or service that uses AI and it

[57:38] has been specifically developed and marketed or specifically modified to

[57:42] make or or to be a controlling factor in making consequential decisions. Employee

[57:47] and any person employed by the city. Authorized use. AI and automated

[57:51] decision tools may be used to enhance efficiency, accuracy, and service

[57:54] delivery in city operations. All consequential decisions involving AI

[57:59] tools must be reviewed and finalized by a human employee or authorized

[58:02] designate. AI tools must not be used to make autonomous decisions without human

[58:07] oversight. In accordance with section D of Act 848,

[58:12] AI and automated decision tools shall not be used by city employees to one,

[58:16] express personal political opinions to elected officials unless within the

[58:20] scope of the employees job duties or upon request by an elected official or

[58:24] public entity. Two, engage in lobbying an elected official on a personal

[58:28] opinion if the employee is not a registered lobbyist for the city. Three,

[58:32] engage in illegal activities or activities otherwise prohibited by

[58:35] federal or state law. Four, intentionally override or avoid the

[58:38] security and system integrity procedures procedures of the city. Five, protecting

[58:43] personal information. Employees must never put input personally identifiable

[58:48] information into AI tools. This includes but is not limited to full names of

[58:53] individuals, social security numbers, driver's license or ID numbers, home

[58:57] addresses or phone numbers, email addresses, medical or financial records,

[59:01] employer or student ID numbers, photos of individuals without consent. Six,

[59:06] training. All employees are strongly encouraged to attend training on Act 8

[59:09] D48 and proper use of AI prior to using AI on city business or equipment.

[59:14] Training shall be provided through the Arkansas Municipal Police ACE hub AI

[59:18] training or other approved sources. Eight, disciplinary action. Violations

[59:23] of this policy may result in disciplinary action up to and including

[59:26] termination in accordance with the city's personnel policies and

[59:29] procedures. Nine, acknowledgement. I acknowledge that I have read and

[59:32] understood the artificial intelligence policy. I agree to follow all rules,

[59:35] responsibilities, and guidelines outlined in the policy, including the

[59:39] appropriate and ethical use of artificial intelligence tools. I

[59:42] understand that violations of this pol policy and or failure to comply with

[59:45] this policy may result in disciplinary action up to and including termination.

[1:00:01] Bill, where did you obtain this uh artificial intelligence and policy?

[1:00:05] » Basically, uh municipally has a basically it's a course that I had to

[1:00:10] take and part of that was this document as a template and I personally without

[1:00:16] AI filled in the differences from Horseshoe Bend in the places where it's

[1:00:20] supposed to be horses Ben and things like that. That's nice.

[1:00:28] Any other questions, comments, >> discussion?

[1:00:34] » Do I have a motion on resolution 2025-34?

[1:00:40] » I'll make that motion. >> Travis makes the motion. Do we have a

[1:00:44] second? >> I'll second it.

[1:00:46] » Janette seconds. >> All those in favor signify by saying I.

[1:00:52] I >> all those oppos say the same.

[1:00:55] Resolution 2025 34 passer

[1:01:09] » sheriff's contracts assuming you got this tool but this was

[1:01:14] sent to me from the sher the sheriff's department has offered to extend our

[1:01:18] contract at the exact same price for one year

[1:01:21] copy of the

[1:01:40] Do we have any kind of a worksheet chart that shows

[1:01:46] » worksheet?

[1:01:50] We're going to read the com read. >> What is the contract?

[1:01:54] » My suggestion uh we bring this up at finance committee

[1:01:59] and we actually look at the copies of the contract and can you give us a

[1:02:03] worksheet or breakdown of the 313,000 >> just like where it's going? I I saw it

[1:02:10] somewhere but I don't see it here in the packet

[1:02:13] » of what we were actually >> paying for. Well, there's a breakdown in

[1:02:19] terms of deputies and excellences.

[1:02:25] » So, we didn't break down one office.

[1:02:32] » All right. >> We'll get get

[1:02:36] wed the same as currently, just different dates.

[1:02:54] the sheriff's here. If there's any anything you're requesting for him to

[1:02:58] provide you before the finance meeting, please let him know.

[1:03:05] I

[1:03:09] » mean the contract date I think is December

[1:03:13] 23 or so >> January 1st.

[1:03:17] » All right. But I think we have to give you a decision by December 23rd. I think

[1:03:20] it's the last day that we need to make a commitment on.

[1:03:31] » So are we talking about it in finance? Are you ready to finance?

[1:03:39] » I'll make a motion to finance.

[1:03:44] » Second.

[1:03:47] » All those in favor signify by saying I >> opposed.

[1:03:54] to find next.

[1:03:59] » Many vacancies.

[1:04:27] 3:00 a.m.

[1:05:10] I'm assuming these are people that you want me to interview and to talk with

[1:05:13] the committees >> for what you have done.

[1:05:17] » As I say, I talked with the airport commission today.

[1:05:21] uh >> talk with them too well and I can talk

[1:05:25] with the people on the planning committee since that seems to

[1:05:29] » the two biggest rooms that people want to get filled.

[1:05:44] » Okay, public comments. We had people that wanted to specifically pop and have

[1:05:50] their name put on this or uh agenda too. >> Kaden Wise, Ian Sretzo, Nicole Cheryl,

[1:06:00] Michaela Herring, I think it's Kina Rip, and Kalishia

[1:06:06] Smith. Doesn't matter which order you take, you're learning

[1:06:13] time.

[1:06:22] right there. Talk right that way everybody be able to hear me.

[1:06:34] » Good evening council and community of horseshoe bench. My name is Kaden Wise

[1:06:38] and I'm proud to be a boy scout. We are Horseshoe Ben Troop 640 and and at this

[1:06:43] time I'd like to bring my peers up to recite the scout pledge for those who

[1:06:46] don't know what a scout stands for. Members of Troop 640, please join me

[1:06:50] before the council.

[1:06:56] They just

[1:07:02] » Yeah.

[1:07:05] » A Boy Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind,

[1:07:12] obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent. Three.

[1:07:30] Since our scout pack was formed outside of the scout building with the promise

[1:07:33] of occupying that building over a year ago, we've done so much and have made

[1:07:37] some great memories doing it. The most memorable for me was being strapped to a

[1:07:41] slideboard with a neck brace where we learned about providing medical care and

[1:07:44] time of need. From marsh from marshmallow catapults to pinewood derby

[1:07:48] races, it always wasn't it wasn't always about fun and games all the time. My

[1:07:52] fellow scouts and I cleaned up the walking trail, constructed bird houses

[1:07:56] and bird feeders were placed on the trail, fabricated and placed the bike

[1:07:59] trail signs and helped honor our fallen heroes by placing bosses and flags on

[1:08:03] the graves on the mort. As for my favorite part, I enjoy helping the cops

[1:08:07] goes even on my own little brother. I used to nanny with my mom into the grunt

[1:08:10] stroke for mom. Getting to work together on certain projects help us all grow as

[1:08:14] a pack. Working together for the greater good is such a valuable lesson, much

[1:08:18] like staying true for you would. It's sad to imagine that all of our hard work

[1:08:22] isn't enough in the council's eyes. And that despite our previous and future

[1:08:26] community service hours, they want to charge us rent to use a building that

[1:08:29] was supposedly renovated for us and promised to us. A consistent safe place

[1:08:34] to meet. Meet means a lot. And in return, my peers and I would be proud to

[1:08:39] continue to serve the community of Hershey, especially in a building with

[1:08:42] so much history. 40 years worth of scouts have been in and out of that

[1:08:46] building. Please allow to continue a scouting legacy in a building that's

[1:08:50] been long dedicated with scouts. Thank you.

[1:09:06] Council >> Ian Cir. Her name is Ian Circ. I claim a

[1:09:13] lot of different roles, right? >> And all of you do too, I'm sure. Dad,

[1:09:18] brother, husband,

[1:09:21] and I'm sure we're all dedicated to each one of those, right? One one of the ones

[1:09:26] that I really enjoy to do is with these little ones. I got I got a uh Katie

[1:09:34] 13year-old and a six-year-old, right? This means a lot to them. Getting to go

[1:09:40] somewhere consistently, safely, securely.

[1:09:44] And I said consistently cuz it's an important piece of it. But I'm not here

[1:09:49] for political theater, right? Cuz I I I sense it. I see it. I feel it. I'm not

[1:09:54] ignorant to it. But we were promised that building standing

[1:10:00] out there that day, right? There were Steven Wagner was there. Chris Underwood

[1:10:06] was there. Mayor Delair's promised the building direct comm not communication

[1:10:12] personally, but Mr. Miller, and I quote from a email he had, having

[1:10:20] those boys back in that building is exciting, right? Surely that segment

[1:10:25] wasn't over profiting off of them, right? Couldn't have been. It's um a

[1:10:31] rental fee in exchange for hours of community service and youth outreach

[1:10:36] thing that scouts are liability. And the membership to BSA

[1:10:42] has its own facilities and indemnity agreement. It's come since 1975.

[1:10:51] And because we're rally located out here,

[1:10:55] a lot of the kids have limited access to extracurricular stuff, right? Often

[1:11:02] finding themselves vandalizing Veterans Park, things like that, right? That

[1:11:07] happens regularly. And it's not because they're bad kids necessarily,

[1:11:12] that they lack an outlet or a consistent outlet. Every once in a while isn't

[1:11:18] consistent. going to the same place every week is

[1:11:23] consistency.

[1:11:26] But yeah, they're not bad kids. They just lack an opportunity. And

[1:11:31] ironically, the troop had just got done building benches. Those kids saw

[1:11:36] weathered benches, right? Just some beat up old benches that it didn't matter if

[1:11:40] they broke. These kids right here just built benches. They understand that hard

[1:11:45] work goes into those. team effort that those benches are going to be

[1:11:50] placed in the community for any one of you to sit on.

[1:11:55] They recognize that

[1:11:59] we're building character, not just benches, right? This is long-term

[1:12:04] sustainability, not just to this community, but everywhere around here.

[1:12:10] And that reinforces why this is important.

[1:12:14] Instill in the values in these little ones.

[1:12:18] That'll help this community kind of dial in

[1:12:22] this separation that I can feel. I don't even live here and it's obvious.

[1:12:30] So, I I want to make sure council considers everything I've said, what

[1:12:34] these kids mean to me, what these kids mean to the community.

[1:12:39] as we present a proposal and then we can discuss it amongst

[1:12:45] ourselves.

[1:12:48] » Council, I appreciate it. Thank you.

[1:13:08] And finally, the elephant in the room. Hello, council. My name is Nicole and

[1:13:13] I'm a committee member for Hershey Ben's troop 640. Gracious community of

[1:13:17] Horseshoe Ben, thank you for your constant support of these scouts. Please

[1:13:21] know that the recorder treasurer has been given a packet of evidence to

[1:13:26] factualize every statement said at tonight's meeting. A packet that can be

[1:13:30] foyed by anyone curious enough to divulge into the mess I found myself in

[1:13:34] on behalf of my 19 scouts. A packet that myself and a friend have mere copies of

[1:13:42] to compare to if need be.

[1:13:49] First, let's address a few key points pertinent to understanding the

[1:13:52] situation. For decades, in newspaper articles, bids, payments made, numerous

[1:13:56] official documentation on this city's own Facebook page, and in emails from

[1:14:01] the council and the mayor, it has always been this building reference throughout

[1:14:05] the packet. The MRI unsuccessfully tried to demolish the condemned building in

[1:14:12] 2022 and kicked out our brother and sister scouts with Chris Underwood. The

[1:14:16] community rallied behind them. Thank you, Horseshoe Fund. And the building

[1:14:20] was saved. Reference to the meeting minutes on page 5 through 11 in the

[1:14:24] packet. The building was never condemned. The roof was fixed through an

[1:14:28] interest claim and Ro Johnston mitigated what little mold there was himself.

[1:14:33] Reference pages 1235, 36, and 37. >> Cochran Home Inspections published a

[1:14:39] report saying what needed to be fixed. Dan Robinson was paid over $10,000 for

[1:14:43] the repair reference pages 13 through 34. And not once was the building a

[1:14:48] safety concern per the inspection report by Cochran, page 12. A building city

[1:14:54] council walked us out of by changing the lock so we couldn't access our own

[1:14:58] supplies kept inside the building that were needed for our last troop meeting.

[1:15:02] reference page 62. A space being utilized exclusively by the BSA doesn't

[1:15:07] have to be ADA compliant per the BSA website under accessibility

[1:15:11] considerations. Reference my draft proposal that you'll be getting shortly.

[1:15:16] And through an in donation, the free lease can be granted to the BSA by the

[1:15:21] city with a traditional less or less stipulation.

[1:15:25] And finally, adding another for rent facility hoping to make profit is absurd

[1:15:29] when you consider the current for rent facility, the community center, profited

[1:15:33] only $328 in the first four months, $388 in the last eight months, and cost the

[1:15:39] city almost double that in electric bills for one month. Page 63 through 66

[1:15:46] for reference. Now that that's been addressed, we'll continue with what was

[1:15:50] said at the previous city council meeting. Starting with the avoiding a

[1:15:54] lawsuit by not picking and choosing who receives what. The Chamber of Commerce

[1:15:58] was a city-owned building that somehow became a volunteerowned building that

[1:16:03] later again became city-owned. It is currently a city-owned building being

[1:16:07] used rentree by an unaffiliated entity for stipulations and an addendum to the

[1:16:12] 25-year lease that was drafted. city building rent free meaning you couldn't

[1:16:17] offer a similar lease >> that's your three minutes so sorry just

[1:16:22] » that's rude can I continue >> yeah sure

[1:16:24] » thank you >> I I if somebody else um Michaela Herring

[1:16:30] had my next that she was going to relinquish to me do we need to do that

[1:16:34] or >> yes she can relinquish it to you go

[1:16:36] ahead >> thank you mayor

[1:16:39] » a city building rent free claiming you can offer a similar lease to the BSA is

[1:16:43] critical, especially when you consider that we are a 501c3 providing direct

[1:16:48] service to the community, much like the Horseshoe Ben Chamber of Commerce

[1:16:52] pretended to be for months to claim tax exemption. Reference pages 38 through 51

[1:16:58] regarding legality of leasing a building rentree. refer to title 22 chapter 4 sub

[1:17:04] chapter 5 that says of Arkansas code that says any municipal corporation

[1:17:09] shall have the authority to sell lease grant exchange or otherwise dispose of

[1:17:14] property dedicated to a public use for recreational or park purposes. The

[1:17:18] building will be utilized for our bi-weekly troop meetings, our bi-weekly

[1:17:22] leadership meetings to plan and prepare our activities such as our gutterboat

[1:17:26] races we're about to to do, and will be open to the public for future events. To

[1:17:32] clarify, at least to the Boy Scout building to the scouts, we'll serve the

[1:17:36] municipality through community service and youth outreach. The benefit is

[1:17:40] greater than the value of the building because of our ongoing dedication to the

[1:17:43] community and the commitment to Horseshoe Ben's future adult citizens.

[1:17:47] Public use will not be extinguished, rather encouraged and regular at

[1:17:51] regularly scheduled events. Which brings me to the next issue, insurance and

[1:17:55] liability. As guests at the scouts, all those in attendance to any event hosted

[1:18:00] by us would be covered by the BSA's facility in indemnity agreement. The

[1:18:04] agreement covers any scout scouting unit, member, visitor, volunteer, or any

[1:18:08] other person arising in or any way connected to directly or indirectly with

[1:18:14] scouting. see the proposal draft will be given to you shortly. We are a nonprofit

[1:18:19] requesting exclusive use of at least one section of the building to securely

[1:18:23] house our belongings and our stacks and refreshments for the members. A space

[1:18:27] that's ours to decorate and dedicate completely to the kids. a section of the

[1:18:31] building that will that and end a genderneutral bathroom that will need to

[1:18:36] come with it will be used for the scouts exclusively and there would therefore

[1:18:40] wouldn't have to be ADA compliant unless unlike the rest of the building that

[1:18:44] would remain public. See accessibility considerations in the proposal draft. In

[1:18:50] conclusion, and most importantly, my 19 scouts are not a liability. They are not

[1:18:54] a burden and the city needs and deserves all that the scouts can offer. We are an

[1:18:58] asset to the community and we're more far worth more than a monthly rent

[1:19:03] charge. And the proposal as well as over 200 signatures from the

[1:19:10] community are in these folders that can also be voided should you be interested

[1:19:15] enough to look into the mess that I found myself neck deep in just trying to

[1:19:20] provide a building that was promised to 19 kids the day we started the scouts.

[1:19:25] Thank you.

[1:19:43] Who promised the scout to you?

[1:19:49] um Steven Wagner, Chris Underwood, Amar Deair, and there's also correspondence

[1:19:54] from Brian Miller and emails that suggests I mean that that that could be

[1:19:59] looked into saying that yes, this building

[1:20:01] » when it belonged up to MRD bill, correct?

[1:20:04] » The building in question. >> Yes.

[1:20:06] » That was then turned over to the city. >> Yeah. But it was promised to you when it

[1:20:10] belonged to the MR. Correct. >> Oh, no sir. This was um previous to the

[1:20:14] MR fizzling out as well as after. >> Okay. So it was promised to you after

[1:20:18] the M was dissolved. >> Um Mayor Delair, Steven Wagner, and

[1:20:25] Chris Underwood as well as from >> the reason I bring it up, the only

[1:20:28] reason I bring it up is when the MD was dissolved, it became a new asset to the

[1:20:32] city. So anything previously to that, we have to determine what we're going to do

[1:20:36] with that building. It has to be done equally across all clubs, not just

[1:20:40] specifically which is why I suggested using just one room for dedicating it to

[1:20:45] the Boy Scouts I fantastic. It would allow you to try to

[1:20:50] profit off of another for rent building even though the one is doing so well.

[1:20:54] » No one's trying to profit off. >> Well, then I charge the Boy Scouts rent.

[1:20:57] » It was I suggest that no one has voted. Not one person in this council has voted

[1:21:02] anything about it. >> And that's why I'm here to make sure

[1:21:05] that when that vote goes through, the people of Horseshoe will support my

[1:21:08] scouts and say that we deserve a safe, consistent place to be.

[1:21:20] » Also to several there there's Jonia in the White River District that utilizes a

[1:21:27] city building rentree. The scouts are allowed a a a facility, a room as well

[1:21:32] as a storage facility that's locked from public use, I believe, by the city of

[1:21:37] Jonia. And if Judsonia, a small m municipal such as that could could

[1:21:41] provide that, why couldn't Horseshoe Band?

[1:21:43] » No one's saying we can't. >> Well, here we are.

[1:21:45] » How many meetings are we talking about? >> Meetings. It's every other week. Is that

[1:21:50] 26 meetings a year? >> Well, it would be a bi-weekly um

[1:21:54] scheduled troop meeting and then we'd also utilize it. I mean, these these

[1:21:57] gutter boats, I've got oh gosh, so much to compile to make these the these

[1:22:03] things don't happen overnight. So, we need we need a place for our leaders to

[1:22:07] congregate and to, you know, get these supplies together. I I there's going to

[1:22:12] be cutting and and prepping and and we need a spot where we can, you know, have

[1:22:17] our things there that we could go and do this. So, no. So, we're talking at least

[1:22:21] four meetings a month on top of our spectating events like our gutter boat

[1:22:25] races that we're fixing to do. So, it would be used far more than four times a

[1:22:30] month. >> More than twice.

[1:22:33] » Yes, sir. >> One a week.

[1:22:34] » I'm sorry. >> At least once a week probably

[1:22:37] » like likely once once a week would be a comfortable m maybe twice if I mean

[1:22:41] these the like I said I referenced the gutter butts because that's our our next

[1:22:45] project. I mean, these benches, we we had to prep all of that lumber before

[1:22:48] they cut all the I'm not going to give them a table saw.

[1:22:51] » We give them drills. >> You're just for understanding. I'm just

[1:22:55] for understanding. That's all. >> So, I understand. I see what you're

[1:22:59] trying to do is to say that we're not going to utilize the building, but we we

[1:23:02] we would if we had it to at our disposal to be utilized, which we haven't. We've

[1:23:07] been meeting at the community center. >> You have to understand we need a place

[1:23:12] to put all of our stuff with Boy Scouts, >> right?

[1:23:15] The prior prior troop had a a trailer and I guess it went with them. They they

[1:23:19] stored a lot of stuff in the trailer that was there with the troop.

[1:23:22] » Yeah. The trailer that said boy scouts along with the boy scout building that

[1:23:25] also had proudly home of the BSA before the Mid kicked them out. I remember I

[1:23:31] saw the pictures. >> Yeah.

[1:23:42] So, as you're proposing, they would use well, one bathroom, one room for

[1:23:48] storage, >> and it's a happy middle ground. I I'm

[1:23:51] trying to make a a you know, I'm I'm trying to be helpful and make it

[1:23:57] possible for my scouts. You want a place for rent. Why? I'm not sure, but you

[1:24:01] would like to rent out that part of the building, make it publicly accessible.

[1:24:05] Fine. There's two entrances. One can be locked off from the public use area. Our

[1:24:10] section is done. Thanks to the people of Horseshoe for saving that building for

[1:24:13] these scouts because it's needed. This community needs scouts. I mean, it's

[1:24:18] it's a sad place to be. That's one thing I realized when I went petitioning

[1:24:22] through the community is how unhappy the people of Horsu are. that not one

[1:24:26] positive thing aside from how happy they were to have the scouts in the community

[1:24:31] was said when I was petitioning. It was one negative thing after the other after

[1:24:35] the other. It was absolutely draining. >> The original setup at that building when

[1:24:40] Charlie and I started redoing it was to take that wall out in the other right

[1:24:44] hand side. The Boy Scouts would have the right hand side, the larger room.

[1:24:49] There's storage behind. There's double bathrooms there for guys and girls. And

[1:24:54] the lefthand side could be used by any other group that wanted to. The Girl

[1:24:59] Scouts talked about wanting to use the space. You could put 4 in there. You

[1:25:03] could put FAA in there. That's what the building was redone for in the first

[1:25:08] place and that's why it was saved, let alone the historic value of that

[1:25:12] building. >> So that's why way we set it up when we

[1:25:17] originally redid it. And as far as the ADA compliancy thing, that would be up

[1:25:21] to the city to spend whatever it needed to to make sure that the public use side

[1:25:25] was ADA compliant because it would need to be to be rented out. Our boy scout

[1:25:29] side wouldn't need to be and that that our accessibility considerations are

[1:25:33] also in the proposed lease as well as the proposal to the council.

[1:25:40] » Very nice. And my understanding is the city attorney expressed that since the

[1:25:45] city took it over their reservations along, we'd have to bring it up to ADA

[1:25:49] compliance. >> If someone else used it,

[1:25:52] » it would be a private use spot. The room, the bathroom, as well as our

[1:25:57] storage facility would be locked away from the public use areas. It would not

[1:26:01] need to be ADA compliant. I have included the accessibility and

[1:26:04] considerations from the BSA in my proposal.

[1:26:07] » You're a private club. You don't have to comply with ADA. You don't have to

[1:26:20] apologize for sending an email that says do not discriminate against people with

[1:26:25] disabilities. Make the building ADA compliant.

[1:26:28] » As I said, for the rest of the public use part of the building, 120%. That's

[1:26:33] not to say that we wouldn't make whatever considerations we would have to

[1:26:37] make to allow somebody to be accepted and and and to be part of our Boy Scout.

[1:26:43] That is >> I mean that is Well,

[1:26:46] » I'm clarifying that right now that we would make whatever we needed to happen.

[1:26:51] » Don't No, you're you're misinterpreting. I'm not going to apologize for that. I

[1:26:55] hope everybody understands. I will not apologize for saying to not discriminate

[1:27:00] against people with disabilities and make building ADA compliant. do it.

[1:27:06] » I don't think anybody saying >> I just don't believe it has to be done

[1:27:11] immediately. Something who could do it. >> Every attorney, every city attorney

[1:27:16] America tell every city that um but but I'm impressed with the counter offer to

[1:27:24] let the city use part of the >> I'm impressed with my scouts that are

[1:27:28] sitting so patiently in the

[1:27:39] Having experience in the code field for over 30 years, I would highly recommend

[1:27:45] that even though you're a private group that the building be ADA because you

[1:27:52] could end up with someone wanting to be a scout that is

[1:27:57] » in which case we would adjust accordingly. there are other facilities

[1:28:00] that we could utilize to make that arrangement for said person if that was

[1:28:05] we'd build a ramp. I my my husband he's used to be a contractor in Colorado. He

[1:28:11] has built an ADA compliant ramp before. I mean between between our resources

[1:28:17] that we have within our troop, you know, our leaders, I I would think we could

[1:28:22] probably figure out a way to make one room ADA compliant for a person of of

[1:28:27] special needs. I I really feel confident in saying that we could probably make

[1:28:32] that happen. >> The scouts are willing to finish the

[1:28:35] building on their own at no cost to the city and I'm sure they can make it

[1:28:41] » ADA compliant. So, what we're talking about here is kind of spinning our

[1:28:45] wheels. What we need to decide is, are we going to give them a lease so they

[1:28:49] have a building and they can build a future on, or are we going to charge

[1:28:53] them $15 a meeting to show up? And that was brought forward right in

[1:29:00] this room. >> Nobody said it wasn't. I said nobody has

[1:29:03] agreed on voted on it. >> Somebody says,

[1:29:09] » "You're going to vote on it." >> I don't think many people here thought

[1:29:13] it was any suggestion or a talkound when they wanted to see whether the boating

[1:29:17] and fishing would come up and pay the money. it would have moved to an

[1:29:20] ordinance that would have been voted on >> and there was people that were willing

[1:29:24] to make that payment, but I think there's more people willing to say this

[1:29:28] is ridiculous. We need to do something for the children in this city.

[1:29:32] » Thank you. >> No one should have to step up to be able

[1:29:36] to pay for the scouts to use that building. These right here are y'all's

[1:29:39] future. >> I think y'all are getting angry over a

[1:29:42] lot of things that hadn't been decided yet.

[1:29:44] » Nobody's getting nervous.

[1:29:56] Yeah, I got something new. >> Cheers.

[1:29:59] » But you really help win your spot right now.

[1:30:02] » Show them how big of a smart ass you can be standing up.

[1:30:11] » Okay, folks. This is This is >> council meeting. I'm just going to let

[1:30:17] you know right now. >> Yeah. I I don't see a future in this

[1:30:23] whatsoever. Is there any other comments that people want to make about it?

[1:30:28] Is she >> Yeah. None of us would be here if it

[1:30:31] hadn't gotten mentioned. She wouldn't have did all that work and all would not

[1:30:36] be here tonight to sit here. This is why I don't come to these meetings because

[1:30:40] it is awful how you people are.

[1:30:52] to that concerned citizen was somebody laughing behind me to perpetuate the

[1:30:57] fact that they >> How how sad. That's not funny. They

[1:31:02] laughed at that. That's not funny. >> Well, thank you very much%.

[1:31:09] » I appreciate it. >> My My scouts appreciate it. Thank you.

[1:31:13] My families appreciate it. >> All right. Is there Thank you very much,

[1:31:17] Nicole. I appreciate it, too. Is there anybody else that wants to talk?

[1:31:21] Anything else you want to do? >> Yes.

[1:31:35] » James Floyd to uh correct one one comment I just

[1:31:40] heard. The MRI did not kick out the scouts. That building had become vacant

[1:31:46] and it was an attractive nuisance and it was suggested that the building bears

[1:31:53] » and that is the the truth. No building for multiple months.

[1:32:07] » Chris, you want to say anything?

[1:32:11] Chris, do you want to say anything? >> You should.

[1:32:16] » This is Mr. >> Yes,

[1:32:23] » the promise that was made outside of that building since it's being

[1:32:26] » my but tell you what, my name is Steven Wagner. I work for the the natural state

[1:32:31] council headquartered out of Little Rock. I'm a district executive. I cover

[1:32:36] area from BB. I always tell people BB North to Missouri. I've got White,

[1:32:41] Clayburn, Independence, Fulton, Sharp, and Hisard County. I've been on the job

[1:32:45] a little over a year and and it's actually I got encouraged

[1:32:50] uh by folks to come up here and heard that there was an interest in scouting

[1:32:55] and getting something going. I go around and recruit. I've got 30 elementary

[1:32:59] schools that I'll go around to, multiple school districts. Scouting is growing

[1:33:06] in this district. The counties that I named, we've gone from having nine units

[1:33:13] to 19 in the last year. Horseshoe Bend is one of those. And you have folks, you

[1:33:22] have an exceptional group of leaders and young people that I'm just really

[1:33:28] impressed with. But uh but yeah, I came up and started checking things out,

[1:33:33] visited with Mayor Valair, uh Chris Underwood. I know there's a lot of

[1:33:38] disagreement on some of the history of it. The one thing I all I can say is

[1:33:44] that for decades that building was the scout hut.

[1:33:50] » That's what it was that's what it was known by. That's what everyone kind of

[1:33:54] just can agree with. But folks, you've got an opportunity

[1:34:01] as a community. And these scouts are part of that

[1:34:06] opportunity to do some great and some wonderful things. And as I was sitting

[1:34:11] there and there were a number of times I just closed my eyes and I started

[1:34:15] praying because y'all need a lot of prayers and

[1:34:19] help me in my prayers >> because there's a lot of healing that

[1:34:23] needs to take place >> and these scouts are trying to to live

[1:34:28] by and they started off with the oath from the law and that's what they're

[1:34:33] trying to live by. and you've got some parents who are dedicated teaching them

[1:34:38] and some other other young people in the community. But I just um we want to

[1:34:43] clarify that Chris and I we the bald hair head and this that and the other

[1:34:48] but there's a lot of the resemblances in there but uh but that's who I am say

[1:34:53] Steven Wagner but I work for the council but just God bless y'all and you know

[1:34:59] and the energy that and the caring that y'all have on

[1:35:03] both sides of issues for your community and just please please

[1:35:11] uh worked on some of the healing that that I know needs to occur. That's one

[1:35:14] of the things scouting teaches is that that we're supposed to get along

[1:35:20] with people. That's one of the things that we teach. But God bless you.

[1:35:31] I have a question, ma'am. If uh

[1:35:38] » Nicole, if you if uh leadership would if the council agrees to it and give you a

[1:35:46] lease with that, you would have the

[1:35:50] protection, but is it possible that volunteers and the scouts would work

[1:35:55] together to make that building ADA compliant?

[1:36:02] You're talking about tens of thousands of dollars doorways and bathrooms.

[1:36:08] » That's not on the Boy Scouts. That's that as far as surpassing what we could

[1:36:13] offer as far as community service. We are all for community service. I mean,

[1:36:17] let let all you got to do is look outside. We we're responsible for the

[1:36:21] the walking trail. I mean, the the the like my son said, the flags and crosses

[1:36:27] on the headstones of our fallen soldiers when nobody else would show up to help.

[1:36:32] And that that was the Boy Scouts. We put in our fair share of community service,

[1:36:35] but that's not community service that should be put on.

[1:36:38] » Half of our our kids are cubs. I mean, we only have three that are Boy Scout

[1:36:43] age. The rest are cubs. >> I think you're misunderstanding my

[1:36:46] statement. No one's saying if we make it a lease, we're solely for the Boy

[1:36:50] Scouts. It's no one else use just the boy scouts.

[1:36:54] » And it's your ability. You wouldn't have to do it immediately over time to make

[1:37:00] should a scout come along that has a disability that you would have sometimes

[1:37:07] the building like you did to Chris Underwood and his troops too.

[1:37:13] It would be too expensive to make it ADA compliant. And oh, guess what? we get to

[1:37:18] demolish it like we wanted to in the first place. That's would be my concern.

[1:37:22] » So, no. I I say no. >> Good.

[1:37:24] » All right.

[1:37:32] » And Lisa that that even Mr. myself said that it looks

[1:37:39] » appropriate given the >> I would like for that to be addressed

[1:37:43] before anything else. >> As the city attorney said, you wouldn't

[1:37:46] need an ADA compliant for yourself. >> Unless someone came along who wanted to

[1:37:52] be a boy scout, they would need it. So you wouldn't need to do that any work at

[1:37:57] all until that arises is what I was thinking. No, don't

[1:38:01] not >> I'm saying solely lease the building.

[1:38:06] » That's right. >> To the Boy Scouts alone.

[1:38:09] » Okay. >> Not be on the shoulders of the Boy

[1:38:11] Scouts of the BSA to make you are building 88 to do what you should

[1:38:16] » only if your need only if your need arises for a boy scout because you say

[1:38:20] you don't need it until you have someone who who needs a ramp. I don't I don't

[1:38:26] know a person a person person you don't have

[1:38:29] » but there may be a person come along >> that's all that's all I'm trying to do

[1:38:33] is guarantee that you will do accommodation what you said you would

[1:38:38] » I'd like to make him a suggestion that uh we take time to talk about and uh I

[1:38:46] be a bridge to go between you I understand what Brian's saying and I

[1:38:50] don't think what he's saying is wrong and certainly the city attorney the idea

[1:38:54] that We want to make it com compatible. By throwing those together, we're

[1:39:00] creating a fight here that there doesn't have to be, right?

[1:39:03] » You need a bu building to be in. It sounds like the council's willing to

[1:39:07] give you the building. >> Now, if we add an extra thing of how do

[1:39:12] we fix it up, you would have a lease so you're not being thrown out.

[1:39:17] » Exactly. >> And so, let's all think about that

[1:39:20] because I know we're all emotional right now over all of this,

[1:39:23] » okay? because it hit everybody wrong that we were going to charge the Boy

[1:39:27] Scouts for a meeting. >> That's ridiculous.

[1:39:33] » Right. >> But what about the other part?

[1:39:37] » No. No. The whole building the whole building leaves the Boy Scouts. We're

[1:39:41] not talking about >> Yeah. Let's Let's talk about it. Okay.

[1:39:45] Can we just take a break and think about it and let Brad look at the proposal?

[1:39:50] » Let the council talk about it. >> Yeah.

[1:39:53] » Yeah. Let's just make sure >> there was there was a mention of the

[1:39:57] other building less for 25 years. I'm saying maybe again I'm not trying to

[1:40:02] iron this out tonight but the other building had 25 years.

[1:40:06] » Maybe we could make lease like that with Boy Scouts. There are contentions. I if

[1:40:09] you if you move away then all bets are off and and of course that would

[1:40:14] terminate the lease. I'm saying we need to iron out the details of the lease.

[1:40:20] Uh, and I would hope that if girl scouts want to use a

[1:40:26] building, I'm sure they can come to the Boy Scouts and you guys work something

[1:40:29] out among the two groups. >> You don't need us involved in it.

[1:40:34] » Absolutely. >> You see what I'm saying?

[1:40:37] » We thought you were just talking about

[1:40:43] » I'm one person. All right. So, we have an open line of

[1:40:48] communication. We have two ideas on both sides and let's try to put them

[1:40:52] together. Is that fair for everybody? >> Do I have a motion to adjourn?

[1:40:58] » I'd like

[1:41:01] » Yes.

[1:41:38] I don't think so.

[1:41:55] My name is R. Johnston. Uh, since I've been uh referenced tonight in mayor's

[1:42:02] veto, I wanted to come up and talk. I'd like to comment on the mayor's reference

[1:42:06] to stacking committees in reference to his veto. Last year, after a review

[1:42:12] council was voted in following a building committee meeting the mayor

[1:42:15] attended, the mayor spoke to all of us after the meeting concluded and before

[1:42:21] we left, the mayor asked if we could all resign so he could reappoint us all so

[1:42:26] that our term would exceed the term of new council.

[1:42:30] present were when we were asked by the mayor were myself, Dan Robinson, David

[1:42:36] Delvakio, and Mark Savano. I asked the mayor if that was legal. The mayor

[1:42:42] responded he would look into it and get back to us. He never did get back to us.

[1:42:47] Mr. Psych, did he ever ask for your opinion on that?

[1:43:00] Okay. Thank you. >> I never asked but

[1:43:03] » there are people saying that I am soliciting for committee members. I

[1:43:06] would like to clarify that our committees, the city's committees are

[1:43:11] required to have a number of members. The mayor has been aware of this for

[1:43:15] over 11 months. The issue has been brought to his attention on several

[1:43:19] times. One issue is the zoning committee is supposed to have three members from

[1:43:23] planning committee on it. The mayor failed to appoint anyone. In an effort

[1:43:28] to add the required members from the planning committee on the zoning

[1:43:31] committee, I I did speak to two planning committee members at Dogwood days to see

[1:43:36] if they would be open to joining if they were nominated. That was the extent of

[1:43:41] my involvement. As for the mayor's comment referring if I am mayor now too,

[1:43:47] I am not the mayor. I am not running for mayor either as there seems to be some

[1:43:52] rumor that I am. The mayor is responsible for lawful compliance to our

[1:43:57] city ordinances, including the committee member nomination and ordinance 2007-03.

[1:44:06] That did not happen recently. During the zoning and adjustments committee

[1:44:10] meeting, Mity Balman, and I welcome you to our committee,

[1:44:16] presented as a committee member, unbeknownst to me as the chairman and

[1:44:20] others on this committee. There was no communication of this by the mayor. Did

[1:44:26] the council approve this nomination? >> And I did give everyone a copy of the

[1:44:32] ordinance, which is the law. Thank you.

[1:44:48] » Anything else? >> May I ask a question? Sure.

[1:44:53] » Well, I don't The Chamber of Commerce building is there um is it ADA

[1:45:00] compliant? >> No.

[1:45:03] » No, it is not. >> We didn't do any work on so we didn't

[1:45:06] have to. >> And I read something about a lease with

[1:45:09] the Horseshoe Ben Chamber of Commerce where they paid nothing.

[1:45:13] » There was no money mentioned in the lease.

[1:45:16] » Um now it seems that it's become the County Chamber of Commerce. Would that

[1:45:24] not void that leak at the Horseshoe Ben Chamber of Commerce?

[1:45:28] » Possibly. >> It's doing business at

[1:45:34] » the DBS. >> But why are they paying no rent?

[1:45:39] » Medical board. >> The Horseshoe Bend Medical Board donated

[1:45:45] the city to the building and the city took it over.

[1:45:48] » Yeah. And there was no money exchanged. And the mayor at that time gave us like

[1:45:54] a 99 year lease just like they >> for nothing,

[1:45:58] » right? Because we don't >> Why can't the city give the boy scout

[1:46:01] this building for 99 years for nothing? >> Well, like the mayor said while ago, we

[1:46:07] we haven't had time to talk about it. It got out of hand last time and this

[1:46:11] tonight we got more information on the same.

[1:46:16] So what is the chamber of commerce building?

[1:46:19] » It's 88. It has a ramp and it has a handicap bathroom in the back hallway.

[1:46:25] » About 20 years ago. >> It was a medical.

[1:46:29] » Yeah, it was a building. Had to have it. Diane,

[1:46:33] » agreement was it served as a welcome center for the city as well. So that was

[1:46:37] kind of the give and take of it. So >> because it was housed in the bottom of

[1:46:41] the mall down. >> So who pays the utilities?

[1:46:44] » We do. The the chamber does not we um >> the chamber pays

[1:46:50] » the chamber pays for all the bills. They pay for heating and air. They pay for

[1:46:54] the roof. Not the new roof, but the architectural shingle roof that was put

[1:46:59] on about seven years ago. They pay the water, the phone, the internet. They pay

[1:47:05] all of it. >> Correct, Donnie?

[1:47:09] » Okay. and the insurance

[1:47:13] » on the building and all the activities on the year. They have the insurance one

[1:47:18] reason that's one reason I was proposing a similar lease with Boy Scouts

[1:47:23] » is that was mentioned in her presentation

[1:47:26] » at the Chamber of Commerce building. That's one reason I said we do it for

[1:47:29] them. We could do it from the Boy Scouts and

[1:47:32] » that's why I brought it up. The medical board couldn't keep a doctor in there

[1:47:36] because every time they got a doctor in there, whether it was Back Baxter, White

[1:47:40] River, the building was just sitting there with no doctor in it. We were

[1:47:43] paying for insurance. There was things that needed to be done to the building.

[1:47:47] So, at that time, the medical board came to the city and asked if they could

[1:47:51] donate it and the city took it over. >> What is the reason for it being a DBA

[1:47:57] » instead of maintaining the horse? >> It's a long story. It had to do with

[1:48:00] Amber Hartman back >> when she tried to take over the

[1:48:06] horseshoe Benjamin McGumber's title. We had to go and

[1:48:12] paper >> because it wasn't a 5013C.

[1:48:16] » It wasn't a nonprofit. It wasn't a nonprofit organization and Amberly tried

[1:48:22] to get it as a a nonprofit organization, but my understanding is the chamber

[1:48:28] didn't pay or meet her demands and she said, "I'm not giving it to you." So,

[1:48:34] they went ahead and filed with another title and made it a nonprofit

[1:48:40] organization. Correctly. >> But is is it a nonprofit?

[1:48:44] » Yes, it is a nonprofit. We have three.

[1:48:52] » Okay. Is there any other fights or bad news we can admit? We have things we

[1:48:57] were doing so good at the next stop building.

[1:49:03] » The Crown Point RV Park is hosting the trunk

[1:49:09] or treat like we do every year. The fire department will be out there giving away

[1:49:13] free hot water, selling the kids and costumes and

[1:49:16] water and and stuff like that. So everybody come on out

[1:49:24] » Friday everybody's going to be sport greyhounds and another

[1:49:27] » win.

[1:49:32] » I'll make a motion later. >> We have a motion. We have a second.

[1:49:36] » Second. >> All those in favor? All right. Bye.

[1:49:40] Baby,

[1:50:09] Got your pipe.

Council Meeting Oct 27, 2025

Transcript