[0:00] We're here for a city council joint special meeting with our sister sister

[0:05] city, city of Indian Harbor Beach. We're going to talk about the muck project

[0:11] night uh that's going to go on. Sure. We'll have some more information that

[0:16] goes on there. Uh thank you for everybody being here. Thank you for uh

[0:22] those you Harbor Beach that are here. We're glad to have you here. And uh with

[0:27] that I'm going to turn over to Dr. Fairle to carry on.

[0:30] » Okay. U Thank you very much for showing up here. Appreciate it very much. It's a

[0:34] very important project that we would like to see get kicked off and get

[0:38] underway as soon as possible. Been a long wait, but we feel like we're

[0:42] getting there tonight. That's why we're here. We want to get together, talk

[0:47] about the various any issues there might be, uh listen to your comments, your

[0:53] input, and then make a decision on just how to move forward with this project.

[0:58] So with that, we can start off with the pledge of allegiance followed by a

[1:03] moment for silent meditation.

[1:09] Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic

[1:14] for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[1:19] justice for all.

[1:39] Okay. So, one item that we need to take care of on our side of table, if you

[1:44] will, is authorization for remote participation. Uh, council member David

[1:49] Nut is not able to attend here in person. So, we need to uh have that

[1:54] voted upon and get that approved. So, I'd entertain a motion.

[1:58] » Like to make a motion for council to attend.

[2:02] » Second. Have a motion by Deputy Mayor Dyer and a second by council member

[2:06] Rooney. All those in favor signify by saying I. I.

[2:08] » I. Those same sound.

[2:20] Uh next is would be new business and this is discussion of future mood

[2:26] project and direction to staff. Um I think at this point we'd like to give

[2:31] the opportunity of the respected city managers to speak and we'll start off

[2:37] with the facility management. >> So um I just wanted to say welcome

[2:42] Indian Harbor. It's a very exciting time for us to get together to work together.

[2:46] Um in front of you all you have a um a card um from from me and and the city

[2:51] council to just say thank you for coming together to work together. And as you

[2:55] leave this evening, there are um some plants out there that we'd like you to

[2:58] take with you so we can all grow together and work together as a

[3:02] community and we're very excited for this project. Um those are my comments.

[3:06] Thank you. >> Thank you.

[3:09] » There's your coffee. >> I'd like to thank our host city for

[3:14] having this meeting tonight. We have a place a one of our new commemorative

[3:20] coins in front of you. Uh there is no truth to the rumor that if you see our

[3:26] mayor in the bar, he buys you a drinker to show me a coin. Uh but you can try

[3:32] and look forward to working with our sister city on this project.

[3:38] Okay. Thank you. Okay. Well, uh now it's time to start

[3:44] the discussion about the renewal project.

[3:48] So um what I'm seeing here is there's question of whether we pursue the grand

[3:56] canal and the finger canals um or whether we do just the greater

[4:01] canal or whether we do just the finger can there's a question of available

[4:06] funding that um from what I've seen doing doing both for both cities that is

[4:13] not possible at this time. there's just simply not enough money available to us.

[4:17] So that route is it's not an option at this point. So now we're down to a

[4:23] discussion of whether the grand canal or the bigger penalty is most frozen. Um

[4:31] I'll start off and just say that I think that I've given this a lot of thought,

[4:35] but I think that the finger canals make the most sense. That's the source of the

[4:42] overall problem is the dra discharge pipes coming into these canals. I think

[4:47] it's something we should go ahead and attack first. While that's being done,

[4:51] we can be sequing out other state money grants from state appropriations to fund

[4:57] a future grand process. So with that those are those

[5:03] are my thoughts and move on down the line

[5:08] just okay.

[5:11] Uh I I would agree ultimately I think everybody here would like to do both the

[5:17] van canal and the finger canals but um with the elephant in the room with

[5:22] property tax situation coming up you know we don't know what's going on with

[5:26] the next year's budget in the years following after that uh I believe we get

[5:30] the most value out of doing the fine canals and um likely since

[5:37] project can be eventually bug um because I agree with the increased

[5:43] the moving up timelines. Uh it's going to be harder to generate the funding for

[5:47] the entire project. I know it's going to create some issues, but it is worth

[5:52] doing. >> Um like everyone, I wish I wish we had

[5:57] the funds to do it all at once, but that doesn't seem possible. So, I also think

[6:02] that the finger canals are the place to start, and hopefully we can get around

[6:07] to the Grand Canal at some point, too. Okay, Council Member Dorian,

[6:12] » I concur with the comments that have been stated so far regarding the need

[6:16] for this. I'd also like to add a comment that in future city planning for both of

[6:23] our cities, we should be also considering um storm water projects that

[6:27] are going to reduce the uh input to the Viney River, which is really the source

[6:33] of the muck accumulation. So that if we dredge the muck out of the out of the

[6:39] finger canals and ultimately the uh brand canal, we don't continue to add

[6:45] muck or the the reason muck accumulates in the canal. So it really is a two kind

[6:50] of prronged approach at um but getting a better return on the investment by

[6:55] combining both of those things. >> Council member Nut is remote. Can you

[7:01] hear me? >> Yes. Can you hear me?

[7:04] » Yeah. Uh, I'm going to keep it short and

[7:07] sweet. I concur my fellow council members.

[7:15] » I'll just start and I again knowing what the cost and there is

[7:21] some time implications with this. Um, I know you guys saw the presentation as

[7:26] well as we saw the presentation. There are some things um pushing us to

[7:32] get started sooner than later. Um currently the current people that are

[7:37] doing this that are already mobilized would like to take advantage before they

[7:43] demobilize and and move on. If I'm not mistaken, I think this is

[7:48] actually going to get pumped all the way down Bay is the is the plan. So before

[7:55] they go and remove all those pipes and do away with that, then having to come

[7:59] back and reset up, which would cost us additional funding to to come up with

[8:04] that, it would be best to take advantage of that. Um, I think I'm in agreement

[8:09] with uh with all of you. It would be great to do uh both the main canal, the

[8:18] Grand canal in there and the finger canals, but when we're spending our

[8:24] money to do it, I look at it as will benefit our residents more take care of

[8:32] the finger canals. Um, since we actually have a lot of those that live right on

[8:36] those finger canals on our side, I know we are doing some

[8:41] projects to clean up some of that water before it

[8:45] gets into the canal so that hopefully we don't get a

[8:49] reoccurrence of this buildup in the in the canals because I think we all agree,

[8:54] you know, we don't want to do all this take this all out just for it to all get

[8:57] dumped back in there again and 101 15 years from now we back to do this again.

[9:03] So, we certainly want to get our money, our return on investment on there to do

[9:08] what we can to keep that from from going in there. I think as we heard in the U

[9:16] presentation, that muck is pretty deep in a lot of

[9:20] those canals. I think Saturn Beach was like 9 ft and some spots in Indian

[9:26] Harbor like 15t spots that was really really deep with

[9:31] that stuff. So obviously it's it's a big problem that that we need to get on

[9:35] there. Um and who knows with with projects as they've already done some of

[9:41] the stuff to the north of us. Maybe a project will come back down this way to

[9:46] take care of the Grand Canal. I think if that came to be they would

[9:52] probably come down and do the Grand Canal, but they probably wouldn't do our

[9:56] fingerings. So I think we would get left out again even if even if the county and

[10:02] they got more money to come down here. So I again I think that's just another

[10:06] reason why we really need to take care of the the vineyard canals because I

[10:11] just don't believe we'll see that on our future for the county or everybody else

[10:15] to to come out and take care of that. Those are really

[10:20] » uh thank you for putting up the the monetary slide. Those are the big

[10:23] numbers that we're working with. Um, I agree. Fingerprints first. I think it's

[10:29] important that we check to see what happens with the half cent sales tax

[10:32] come November for the Save Our Indian River Lagoon halfcent sales tax and

[10:37] maybe that will open up more money for like a round two where we could also go

[10:41] back and and take care of the Grand Canal. Um, we do

[10:46] at Satellite Beach has some very u big storm water projects getting ready to

[10:50] begin what we're calling the West Basin storm project. So, west of South Patrick

[10:55] and I think that will help, like you said, keep this from

[11:00] happening and it's natural, but at the same time, keep it from happening too

[11:06] quickly again. Um, yeah,

[11:11] you only have enough money for one, so only

[11:17] it's not going to cost your budget. All

[11:24] right, let me try to give this a shot. Um, and we might go through all the

[11:28] slides and uh we'll be discovered how deep some of this muck is. 5 to 9 ft

[11:34] deep, some areas of 15 ft. We're also told what this muck will do. It always

[11:41] seeks the lowest point. We dredge our finger canals

[11:47] and we don't do the grand canals or finger canals that eventually fill back

[11:51] up from the muck that's in the grand something that they

[11:56] um I'd like to see us and I'm speaking now totally out of time as far as budget

[12:01] because other grant or sourcing opportunities that help us

[12:07] fund what really needs to be funed. I'd like to hear from a expert that would

[12:14] tell us if we do the finger canals and not do the grand canals, how much risk

[12:18] would we have and allowing that muck to resettle back into the finger? Would we

[12:24] have to come back and revisit finger canals again

[12:28] should that muck migrate back to the lowest point? And if we're concerned

[12:35] about future budget sources, sources coming from our our

[12:42] tax revenues um and other things that could be changing in the near future.

[12:47] Should we wait? Realize waiting is a risk because apparently we have a

[12:52] dredging company that is pre-staged from another area, but I don't know if we

[12:59] want to put blinders on and see that constraint.

[13:03] So I mentioned a few things here, but one of those is really an expert

[13:07] that knows that presented this this slide and how much risk do we have only

[13:13] doing with the air canal without filling back in bug.

[13:20] Those are my initial thoughts.

[13:25] » So we do have um four or five representatives from regard county. if

[13:29] one of you would like to come up to speak to help answer that question. One

[13:34] of the things is they decide you're going to come up and speak. Um there are

[13:39] because this a this would be a water quality project. Uh we have gone after

[13:43] state revolving funds in the past to do storm water projects and this would

[13:47] qualify as one of those projects. The challenge we're faced with with doing it

[13:51] with the county is there are a lot of aspects of making that agreement work.

[13:56] To be able to the fact that the county would be doing the project to be

[14:00] reimbursing the county and working with us to make those those things happen

[14:04] would be challenging. Um but it is something that we have been discussing

[14:07] with our city engineer at Fed and Hunt to put into our facility plan. So if

[14:11] it's something that the council would like to consider at a future date, um we

[14:15] could we would be ready to do so. So, I wanted to bring that point up that's an

[14:18] aspect of a point of a funding option. Um because it is a water quality project

[14:23] that we could use those funding for

[14:37] clarify we get a million dollar loan from the county to do this within the

[14:44] next eight months. >> Well, it wouldn't it would not come from

[14:48] the county. It would it would be an SRF thing and and going through SRF is a

[14:52] process. It we would have to update the facility plan. That facility plan would

[14:57] have to come to you for approval. The applications would have to be changed

[15:00] for um approval. So it would be probably a year process from now if we were to

[15:05] start it today um to even >> yes that would be $7.

[15:14] So that would be why I mean I would agree um that the the monies that we

[15:18] have from the halfent sales tax that's what this process was what it was for.

[15:22] So being able to do part of it um obviously that's what the money was

[15:26] there to do. But if the the council would like to consider future funding to

[15:30] potentially do the full rank amount um SRF money would be an option

[15:38] » when we get a an estimate like this. Does it go to competitive bidding point

[15:45] that does this? >> So, it does. The county has actually

[15:48] gone to competitive bidding when they did the Pineita Consway and they

[15:51] actually ended up doing it twice when they went to the O galley dredging

[15:54] project as well. Um, and and that has been the challenge is that there really

[15:58] seems to only be one company that can do these types of projects um for the

[16:04] funding that they to make happen. I guess some type of study process.

[16:09] » When the county was doing this, it's by observation looked like they were moving

[16:14] up. >> That's correct.

[16:17] » Filtering the waterway this project

[16:22] » pretty far away. >> That see when they bid the Ogali when

[16:28] they they bid the Ogali project, they bid the project to be able to pump it

[16:32] further south. And so that is why the it is coming up now to say if if the city

[16:38] would like to join to be able to make this happen, the the lines are already

[16:42] there. Um so the mobilization that's already there to do the Ogalli project

[16:46] and so when the Ogalli project is completed if we were to go ahead and

[16:50] sign a contract and those the mobilization costs would be less because

[16:54] they've already done it. there's doesn't appear or should we look

[17:00] for an opportunity to pass part state entity maybe the county and

[17:07] kind of follow suit what they did on the bikes further south I know there

[17:17] so wasn't there an issue with the county granting commission site

[17:23] my understanding of it yes that was not an option

[17:29] from the county that can speak to that.

[17:36] » Yeah, the Are you referring to the Pineita DMO? Yes, that one is will not

[17:42] be able to be used. It had too many complaints and it was shut down and we

[17:45] had to shut that down and it's being restored. So, that's not an option. That

[17:49] is why we were looking at piggybacking into our pipe that's already going to be

[17:53] there at the end of our galley project because it doesn't get any better than

[17:57] this. The pipe's there. There's cost to hook into it. You've got your permits.

[18:02] Everything's I mean there are some hurdles we got to get done as far as

[18:05] permit modifications and things like that, but the timing is going to work

[18:09] out. Um Gator is here to answer any questions if you'd like to ask them

[18:13] anything. But from what I understand, when our O'Galli project ends,

[18:19] um he would need a contract signed by at least September to keep the pipes in

[18:24] place where they are. Um that's 6 milesi of pipes in the inter coastal waterway

[18:28] all the way down to Palm Bay. And just so you know, you're not only um we're

[18:33] not only asking for permission from fine for y'all to go into the DMA for the

[18:37] dewatering which is in Palm Bay, but you have also been granted permission to um

[18:42] dispose of your mock in the DMCA down in Miko, which we worked really hard to

[18:46] get. So, I mean, you've got a lot of things lined up perfectly for you. So,

[18:51] um, if there's any extra money on top of the finger canals when when you're done,

[18:57] um, there might be some I would recommend doing some of the, uh, brain

[19:02] canal with those extra funds that you have left and maybe looking at the

[19:06] depths. We have the engineer record here looking at depths, but um, maybe even

[19:12] Gator can talk to it, but usually the Grand Canal is deeper, so that's where

[19:16] it would run off to if it was going to. Um, but maybe there's a way of doing a

[19:20] little bit along the whole Grand Canal if there's enough funds, but that would

[19:24] be something that y'all would have to work out with Gabber.

[19:28] Anything else along here? >> Yeah.

[19:30] » So, that answer your question about >> Well, kind kind of. Well, the Grand

[19:35] Canal seat it back in. >> Well, it it helps, right? So, we have

[19:39] now now we have the impression that the Grand Canal is deeper than bigger canals

[19:44] more than getting higher. Yeah. >> Yeah.

[19:49] Is that really the case? And are we missing something from a technical

[19:54] aspect that says that by the finger canals,

[19:57] we're not going to have overflow from the gravity now back into the finger

[20:01] canals.

[20:05] » Um I'm waiting on um our engineer to answer that.

[20:11] » Reduce the likelihood. It would >> Yeah, it would reduce the likelihood if

[20:15] we use the extra funds. Anything left over to bring the Grand Canal down like

[20:20] But we >> What What's the likelihood?

[20:23] » I don't know. I'm not >> of extra funds. That's

[20:26] » Oh. Oh, well, um I'm I'm glad you asked that. I mean, there is the the the water

[20:33] quality grants and the FD grants that are coming up. I think they come up in

[20:37] June to apply for them and then you might know by November. So, there's a

[20:40] good chance you I mean, it was a lot easier to get grants for muk dredging

[20:46] before. It's a little bit harder now, but if you're in construction, it's

[20:50] sometimes easier. Um, but there are um connections, maybe some lobbyists that

[20:56] might be able to help you get some funding, but it's hard to say.

[21:02] » So, I I know >> legislative appropriations, too. I know

[21:05] some of the some of the finger canals talking to some of the residents in our

[21:09] city uh that you know the buck's so high that they're unable to navigate the

[21:12] boat. So right I think that would be the motivating factor be the finger canals

[21:16] and also um >> would you agree that that's where

[21:20] majority of the inputs come in is through the through the finger canals

[21:23] like the the >> like they always back up first. Yeah.

[21:30] that that's it settles in areas where there's not a lot of flow and so that

[21:34] gets and wind pushes it up in there and it gets stuck up in there. Um

[21:41] question.

[21:56] So from a technical perspective, are we missing anything up here as far as the

[22:00] experience that you have doing this type of work and our ultimate goal to do

[22:08] everything but now we are trying to understand what it's reasonable for us

[22:12] to go through or practical for us to do. What are we missing from a technical

[22:16] perspective and our approach only finger campus?

[22:21] I

[22:24] I can't think of anything. I mean, I just Is somebody more qualified to

[22:28] answer that? Virginia,

[22:40] » right? And I wasn't at your meeting last week. So, Virginia Barker with Bvard

[22:44] County Natural Resources Management Director. Um, so I I think there's

[22:48] nothing wrong with the idea that the finger canals are the highest priority,

[22:53] but the finger canals can be done for less than the currently available

[22:59] funding that you have. And so if you said finish the finger canals and then

[23:06] take the available dollars to proceed on bringing the grand canal down as far as

[23:12] the money goes. That would give you time to pursue state grants, pursue

[23:19] legislative funds, swirl 2.0, you know, find other ways to find other money and

[23:25] get you as far as possible with the funds that are currently available.

[23:33] use this approach kind of from of a time perspective.

[23:38] Um to do the bigger canals in my mind takes more time than to do the Grand

[23:44] Canal moving equipment around each canal. So

[23:49] um it's looking at it from that perspective. Are we still on the right

[23:53] track and just doing the finger canals? >> Yes, we have a schedule that we have put

[23:59] together. I can provide all some copies of that. It's it's just an estimate

[24:03] tenative but um it it does look at doing the finger canals and a little bit of

[24:09] the grand canal from what I understand with any funds left over. It was the

[24:12] volume that could be afforded but it definitely considered doing the finger

[24:16] canals and it definitely is a tight schedule. So, it's um

[24:22] it can be done and we're uh working on trying to get an extension to do that.

[24:28] Right now, the fine lease expires in December this year, but um we're getting

[24:33] indication that maybe we can get it extended to the end of this like

[24:37] timeline that we've presented to them if the uh fine board approves it at their

[24:43] next meeting. So, we'll know soon. >> So, what is your estimated timeline

[24:47] right now? Where where does it end? December 28th.

[24:53] » 28. >> And then do you recall off the top of

[24:57] your head how long it'll take? The finger can now only like a rough

[25:00] estimate. >> Um, it was

[25:04] I I have the I didn't

[25:11] see. >> So

[25:13] basically that gives us what a year and eight months to find. more funding. So,

[25:20] we're within the timeline to get the extra 15 mil to finish the grant amount

[25:26] as well. >> All right.

[25:29] » I think the permit permit goes up to 20. Correct. The Army Corp of Engineers

[25:33] permit >> Jean

[25:39] the permits they've been extended to for another five years.

[25:47] » Oh, yeah. the permits are are extended.

[25:53] » I keep keep in mind if you get more funding, the way this process will work

[25:57] is that the volume down in Palm Bay holds about what we can dredge in one

[26:02] year for your two cities. To get additional funds, we would have to dig

[26:07] that volume out or some of it. We're planning to be digging it out. By the

[26:11] way, Bill Cogland with Gator Dredging, chosen contractor for the project. We'll

[26:16] be digging out of it. So depending upon amount of funds that may come in, you

[26:22] were able to get 2 million, 3 million, 5 million is possible. Um, also I believe

[26:29] the Grand Canal has slightly different dredging windows that we can and cannot

[26:33] dredge in. May be wrong there. I know some of the finger canals have more

[26:37] restrictive dredge times, but it's possible we could

[26:41] get additional uh volume removed in 27, but at some point there at the end of

[26:47] 27, we'll have to dig the muck out of the facility. Uh right now we've

[26:53] requested a full year to dig it out, but understanding that if if funds were

[26:58] becoming available, we could speed that process up and potentially do dredging

[27:04] in 28 to some level um based on additional funds that may be

[27:11] derived.

[27:18] » I just had one further comment. has to do with the uh the comment

[27:23] regarding removing muck and then having muck from higher levels sink back into

[27:28] where we dredge. So in the finger canals when they are dredged the the entire

[27:33] canal was not dredged it's just the center of the canal. So there's an

[27:37] offset from each side and the end I think it's 30 feet and at the end and

[27:41] something like 15 feet on the sides. Okay.

[27:44] » So if we dredge out the middle, we still have the same concern that we do between

[27:48] finger canals and the grand canal that there could be settling in those finger

[27:52] canals into the area that was dredged. So I just don't I want people to

[27:56] understand that that is still going to be a problem regardless of how we which

[28:02] areas we dredge first. >> It is true. We don't get every cubic

[28:06] yard of mock out of the canals. Basically that is based on we don't want

[28:11] to impact or have any negative impacts on the structures the docks the seaw

[28:15] walls what I will suggest is we maintain typically a minimum of 10 ft off of

[28:21] docks or seaw wall um you can see where that may affect the the width based on

[28:26] how far a dock sticks out but also keep in mind that the muck gen generally the

[28:31] canals the sand bottom or whatever natural bottom it was is still kind of a

[28:37] concave uh shape. We go in and we clear out

[28:41] mainly you know the middle 75 or 80%. Uh but what's on the edges because it the

[28:48] natural bottom goes up to the seaw wall generally it's already shallower.

[28:51] Normally we're only leaving 6 in maybe or a foot of muck on the edges whereas

[28:56] in the middle we're generally taking out you know four to nine feet depending

[29:00] upon the canal. I think the last contract we cleaned 27 finger canals as

[29:06] well as Grand Canal, maybe more. Uh most of those canals now there are some odd

[29:12] canals within Satellite Beach. Some are called lakes, big squares, and basically

[29:17] they were sand mines 50 years ago or whatever to build your can, you know,

[29:21] your uplands. Uh but generally the canal, the finger canals we take out

[29:27] four feet of muck. They may be 4t deep. Generally we leave an eight or 10 foot

[29:32] bottom to the natural bottom. Whereas Grand Canal we typically started

[29:38] removing muck down at about 10 feet taking it down to 20 29 30 based on what

[29:45] they had originally excavated to get to build turtle tortoise island and these

[29:50] other areas. You know these canals were basically sand mines at one point.

[29:54] that's why they're filling in. Generally, um unless there is some high

[30:00] spots on Grand Canal, uh generally the finger canals are already higher than

[30:05] the bottom of Grand Canal and even the muck level that's currently there. So, I

[30:10] do think Indian Harbor has additional funds beyond just the finger canals

[30:15] available. I'm sure with Atkins or whoever's doing the the pre-ervey of

[30:21] areas that you select, if there are any high spots in Grand Canal with the

[30:25] additional funds, if I understand there's a city line here, but you guys

[30:29] work that out. Um, if the concern is that material would flow back into the

[30:33] canals, then obviously we would look to to hit those high spots to to minimize

[30:38] that potential.

[30:46] answer everybody's questions so far

[30:54] comments we we can I don't know if everybody here

[31:00] we can we just go through the the presentation

[31:04] » I don't think we have the whole one we just had the next steps uh the last four

[31:09] slides of the presentation that we did I think we are able to do it if you want

[31:14] but it's up to you. >> I just I mean I know some of the

[31:17] residents may have not seen the the >> entire thing,

[31:21] » right? >> Okay. Um Abby, you wanted

[31:25] the whole thing. >> And we need uh or do we need Oh, no. Do

[31:32] that. >> Okay.

[31:40] Sure.

[31:53] » Part of our agenda packet. The whole one.

[31:55] » The full one. Okay. I have it on a flash drive if that's

[32:02] » Thank you.

[32:06] So, I'm gonna

[32:18] Where did we put it?

[32:45] Oh, under the agenda.

[32:55] So,

[33:01] Okay.

[33:15] » It's It's not going to be in a PDF. >> It's going to be I mean it's not going

[33:19] to be in Power. So, you're going to have to use

[33:23] » the arrows. >> Okay.

[33:24] » Because it's a PDF. It's not.

[33:30] So, she'll just have to use the arrow. She won't go to use that.

[33:37] » Oh, so let's see here. The display

[33:42] we downloaded.

[33:46] Hold on a second. I got the team.

[33:56] There you go. That's going to be

[34:04] So what you would just do is slow down. >> Yeah, thank you much.

[34:10] » Thank you.

[34:19] » Well, hello everybody. I see some familiar faces from our first two um

[34:23] meetings together. So, this is repetitive. Well, now it's just going to

[34:28] stick in your head forever. So that's great. Um I'm Abby Garing. I'm an

[34:33] environmental specialist with the Bvard County Save Our Indian River Lagoon

[34:36] program. Um you already heard from Gene Allen. She's the county's our sororal u

[34:41] project engineer on our our muk management projects.

[34:50] So a portion of this project is being funded by the Saur Indian Lagoon

[34:56] program. So I think it's really important that I start off this

[34:59] presentation and touch on that a bit and what we are and what our mission is. So

[35:02] the Save Our Indian River Lagoon program is funded through a halfsent sales tax

[35:07] um that was voted for by the citizens of Bvard County in 2016 and it passed in

[35:12] every precinct. Um this followed a series of harmful algae blooms in the

[35:16] lagoon starting in around 2010. Um since then there's been a series of harmful

[35:21] algae blooms and then especially in 2016 it led to substantial fish kill. Um, so

[35:26] it was very obvious at that point that we were kind of at this tipping point

[35:29] for the lagoon and the citizens of Bvard County stepped up um and took on the

[35:33] challenge to restoring it. And so our mission is to restore the lagoon through

[35:37] collaborative science-based projects which reduce and remove nutrient

[35:40] pollution.

[35:44] We've talked a lot about muk today already. Um, but I think it's really

[35:48] important to highlight that there's a lot of this tax going towards a variety

[35:52] of projects to stop sources of nitrogen and phosphorus before it enters the

[35:56] lagoon, which would help slow down the accumulation of muck in the future. And

[36:00] so, there's not one silver bullet that's going to address the stresses being put

[36:05] on this lagoon. There's a lot of different things impacting it. So, it's

[36:08] going to take a lot of different approaches to fix the problem. We've got

[36:12] to do it all in synergy at the same time. Um working towards the same

[36:16] mission. So the program funded funds um wastewater treatment facility upgrades,

[36:22] septic to sewer conversion, septic upgrades, leaky lateral repairs. Um we

[36:28] do a lot of storm water projects. The city of Satellite Beach was just

[36:30] mentioning some storm water projects. Um these are projects that will help slow

[36:34] down the accumulation of muck in the future. But there's a lot of other

[36:37] things our program does like we like to educate the public on practices that you

[36:41] can perform from your home that could also help slow the accumulation. So

[36:45] these canals do tend to be the hot spots. There's a lot of storm water

[36:48] outfells at the end of them. There's a lot of inputs. There's a lot of people

[36:51] living on it. There's a lot of mamming your grass and blowing it into the

[36:55] canals and all these little things start to add up over time. So there are things

[36:58] that we can do as individuals to kind of help make this even more beneficial. We

[37:03] also help build back ecosystem resilience through oyster, clam, and

[37:06] seaggrass restoration. Um, and then what we're here to talk about today is muck

[37:11] removal.

[37:14] So, what is muck? I'm sure you've either stepped in it, maybe got your boat stuck

[37:19] in it, probably smelled it a little bit as you drove over the causeway. Um, it's

[37:24] defined as being a fine grain organic rich sediment. Scientifically, it has

[37:28] about 10 to 10 to 30% organic matter and a high silt and clay content. Um,

[37:35] Florida Tech has estimated that there's about 6,000 acres of mock throughout

[37:39] Bvard County. So, it's definitely a problem um that we're really working

[37:42] hard to tackle. And this is a problem because the Indian River Lagoon, it

[37:46] muck, it's easily resuspended. We've talked about it being fluid. Um, it's

[37:51] like this black mayonnaise that's kind of suffocating the bottom of the lagoon.

[37:54] And something as simple as a boat going by, a dolphin, a manatee, anything wind

[37:59] um can stir up the sediment, cloud the water, and potentially block light from

[38:02] reaching your seagrasses. Uh the next point might seem kind of

[38:06] weird to think about. It consumes oxygen, and so it is a sediment, but

[38:10] like I mentioned, there's a lot of organic matter. So you have all these

[38:12] tiny little bacteria working really hard underneath the water to break down this

[38:16] material. And in that process, they're rapidly consuming oxygen. So that is one

[38:21] thing people might not think about in terms of muck, but it's constantly

[38:24] pulling oxygen from that water column that the fish ultimately need to

[38:27] breathe. It's generally characterized by the death of biota. We have worked with

[38:31] biologists. Um there's not much that can survive in the muck. We refer to it as

[38:37] this internal source of nutrients. So we have our external sources that come from

[38:40] storm water, those types of outputs. And then this is an internal source. So,

[38:44] it's in the lagoon constantly fueling these harmful algae blooms by releasing

[38:48] nitrogen and phosphorus. It also produces toxic hydrogen sulfide. Do you

[38:53] see this happening in areas where there's no oxygen? So, that's why you

[38:56] might smell that run egg smell out there over the lagoon. Um, that's part of

[38:59] these chemical reactions going on within the muck.

[39:03] And we've touched on this today already, but it tends to favor these deeper low

[39:06] energy areas like canals that have been dug out prior to um like areas near the

[39:12] causeways where these big blue column burrow pits underneath the water have

[39:15] been dug out to build up these causeways. We tend to see muck

[39:18] accumulating in those areas as well.

[39:23] So now that we know a lot of the reasons why muck is bad, how are we proving that

[39:27] these projects are actually beneficial? Um, so I'll start by saying, you know, a

[39:32] picture is worth a thousand words. And so the image here is water and muck that

[39:37] was entering one of our old dredge material management areas. And the water

[39:41] right here is after um we after the water was treated and leaving the site.

[39:46] So visually you can see an improvement in the water clarity. But dredging also

[39:52] helps reduce that internal nutrient loading, will help restore oxygen and

[39:56] improve the overall water clarity.

[40:01] digging into the data a little bit but not too much um we can look at something

[40:05] called the bloom severity index. So this is just a simple number that we can use

[40:09] to show how intense and widespread a harmful algae bloom is in a specific

[40:14] area. So the graph that we're looking at here, this was data that was collected

[40:18] by the European Space Agency and it was processed by a consulting firm, Applied

[40:22] Ecology, um, looking at a project area that was recently dredged, the Ogali

[40:26] River. With the bloom severity index, what

[40:30] you're looking for is pretty much high numbers means that there's worse blooms.

[40:33] So during this study, what was really interesting is during the time it was

[40:36] processed, there wasn't a lot of rainfall going on, but there were still

[40:40] algae blooms in this local area. So that's kind of signifying that you're

[40:43] not having those external sources of nutrients, but at that time it might

[40:47] have been the muck in that area fueling the blooms itself.

[40:51] Before dredging, the average bloom severity index was about 101. And after

[40:56] dredging, there was about a 74% d decrease to an average of 26. Um what's

[41:02] interesting is during this time um even after dredging was complete uh long

[41:06] after so in 2020 there were blooms all throughout the lagoon but specifically

[41:11] in this area when a polyide ecology looked back they saw about a 54%

[41:14] reduction in bloom severity in that dredge area compared to those other

[41:18] areas outside of it. So we are seeing that there is potential to decrease um

[41:22] harmful algae blooms with these types of projects.

[41:27] So thinking back on those pictures that we saw before, the murky water entering

[41:31] the site, the clear water leaving the site, you could visually see that

[41:34] difference. But how can we confirm through data that, you know, we are

[41:38] seeing an improvement? And lucky for us, St. John's River Water Management

[41:41] District, um they maintain a bunch of different long-term water quality

[41:46] monitoring stations throughout the lagoon. So, we can use these um stations

[41:50] to collect real-time data and look at what the conditions were before

[41:54] dredging, what the conditions were during dredging, and how it looked after

[41:58] dredging. So, looking at Turkey Creek, this was an area that had been

[42:02] previously dredged. The average turbidity before dredging was about 4.1,

[42:07] and after dredging, it decreased to 2.9. For that same Ogali River area before

[42:13] dredging, the average turbidity was about 6.4 before and it decreased to

[42:18] about an average of 3.8 after dredging. And this might not seem like a huge

[42:22] difference. We're looking at 34 30 to 40% decreases. But what's really

[42:26] encouraging is that these results are cumulative 6 and 5 years after dredging

[42:31] was complete in these areas. So we are able to track long-term benefits, not

[42:35] just right in the moment. We're continuously seeing the benefits of

[42:38] these types of projects.

[42:44] This was a lot more impactful when there was animations bringing in all these

[42:48] pictures and it looked really wow. But one thing that people don't really keep

[42:52] in mind or think about in terms of dredging because we focus on our program

[42:56] nutrient reduction is how much trash is removed in the canal. So these pictures

[43:01] are from the recent Bvard County Grand Canal project in the northern Grand

[43:06] Canal area. And these are just a handful of pictures we received every single day

[43:10] from the contractors out there. So, the trash gets stuck in the dredge cutter

[43:15] head. It clogs it, stops it. The guys have to shut it down, wrangle out all

[43:20] these wires and ropes, and then start back up again. Um, they dispose of all

[43:23] the trash. And so, all of this trash is sitting in the bottom in the muck, and

[43:27] it's getting removed through this process.

[43:34] So, moving on to the history of the project, why we're all here. Um, looking

[43:40] at specifics, uh, for City of Satellite Beach, it's about 34 acres. We're

[43:44] working with about 12 finger canals. And for Indian Harbor Beach, it's roughly 33

[43:49] acres with 10 finger canals. And it might not seem like there's been a lot

[43:53] of motion with these projects, but there has been a lot going on behind the

[43:57] scenes. Um, things that people just can't really see dayto-day. And so it

[44:01] takes a lot of effort to acquire these permits for these types of projects.

[44:05] It's a very lengthy process and it it takes a lot of data collection. So I'm

[44:10] going to go through that a little bit, the permitting process um and then

[44:14] conceptual permitting and design and we'll end it with our next steps.

[44:22] So the engineers for this project um in the room today, they were working very

[44:26] hard to get us these permits. You start out with hydrographic surveys. So, one

[44:30] of the surveys surveyors used was Morgan and Ecklund. They use a multi-beam

[44:35] surveyor to look at the top of the muck and then you go out there in the field

[44:40] um and you probe at a 100 foot interval. So, you're really just out there with a

[44:43] massive pole. It's measured. You're feeling for the top of the muck pushing

[44:46] it down all the way to the bottom until you can confirm hard bottom.

[44:51] for satellite beach. Um it was mentioned before, but the average muck thickness

[44:55] was about 5 feet, and there were some pockets up to 9 feet in those areas that

[44:58] were dug a little deeper. The estimated volume is about 297,000

[45:05] cubic yards of muck. And for Indian Harbor Beach, um same average thickness,

[45:10] about 5 to 6 feet, but there were some pockets of muck up to 15 feet in some

[45:14] areas. The estimated volume is roughly 220,000 cubic yards.

[45:22] So the engineers also had to look and take environmental surveys. So seaggrass

[45:27] and mangroves are protected species. So they focused on areas that had historic

[45:31] seaggrass but also areas that had potential for seaggrass habitat. Um it

[45:36] included reviewing aerial imagery, looking at bathometric data and also

[45:41] going through all the historical seaggrass databases. But ultimately the

[45:44] findings were there's no seaggrass within the project limits. This isn't

[45:47] surprising. We're working in canals. It's typically deeper than what

[45:51] seaggrasses can survive in. Um, and for mangroves, they look at field verified

[45:57] aerial interpretation. And then they found that there were some a mangroves

[46:01] in satellite beach. Um, but a lot of the mangroves in Indie Harbor Beach were

[46:05] outside the dredge template. This just means again these are protected species.

[46:08] So, the contractors are going to have to follow their permits um, and keep this

[46:12] in mind throughout the process. There's also been a lot of geotechnical

[46:18] work. Um, so samples were collected and analyzed for physical and chemical

[46:21] properties. So confirming that the material itself is muck. Yes, it meets

[46:26] the definitions of what how we define muck. Um, no, it's not sand. And then

[46:30] looking at the chemical properties of it as well. All the material is going to be

[46:34] handled and disposed of per our permit conditions.

[46:42] So, we have successfully received permits um issued by the Army Corps of

[46:46] Engineers and Florida Department of Environmental Protection, which is huge.

[46:50] Um it takes a lot to get these permits, like I mentioned before. So, the

[46:54] satellite beach payable volume, this is almost just like a cushion volume, um is

[46:58] about 299,000 cubic yards and the Indian Harbor Beach payable volume is about

[47:02] 325,000 cubic yards. Note these are higher than the estimated volumes but

[47:07] again it gives us this little cushion. The approved method is hydraulic

[47:12] dredging um versus mechanical dredging. So hydraulic dredging it's almost like

[47:17] an underwater vacuum is the simplest way I can explain it where it sucks up the

[47:21] muck, sucks up the water, creates the slurry and it gets piped down to the

[47:24] deatering facility. Mechanical dredging was not included in

[47:28] the Army Corps permit, but if that's an option, you'd have to undergo a permit

[47:33] modification. The contractor in the city are required

[47:37] to follow the general and special conditions within the permits. These are

[47:40] pretty much a rule book for them to follow.

[47:45] So, the next steps what we're all discussing here today, um we would need

[47:50] to get our permit modification. So for any project changes um updating

[47:56] dewatering and disposal sites um the city or the contractor would be

[48:00] responsible for these permit modifications.

[48:05] Uh the city also has to select an engineer to finalize the issue for

[48:09] construction drawings with the technical specifications. So really with these

[48:13] projects, you're working with the technical specifications which have all

[48:16] the nitty-gritty details for the contractor to follow from um detailed in

[48:20] a document and then they have to follow those rules in accordance with the

[48:24] permits as well. We also have to complete

[48:27] pre-construction permit requirements. So updating those seaggrass surveys, there

[48:30] has been some time um in between and so it's important to go back and update

[48:34] those surveys and that's what the permitting agencies expect.

[48:38] Then the engineer has to develop a bid package. Um these this bid package will

[48:44] probably go through many iterations of review. Then they get the go ahead to

[48:49] put it out for bid for a certain amount of days. Then we receive bids, review

[48:54] the bids, and then we can select the contractor.

[48:59] And an option that we've been talking about today is piggybacking on our

[49:03] existing existing Ogali contract, but we would still have to do options one

[49:07] through four um on this list. So there's still some work to be done to get us

[49:10] where we're we're trying to go.

[49:16] There are some things to consider with this piggyback option. Um some of the

[49:19] benefits include reducing your mobilization and setup costs that was

[49:23] mentioned here today. They will already be, this picture is from one of our

[49:26] permits, um, showing where the pipeline would have to go up into Mather's

[49:30] Bridge, but they're already going to be mobilized on the northeast part of the

[49:34] Ogali causeway. So, they would just have to add the additional piping to get it

[49:39] up here um, under Mather's Bridge. It would overall improve efficiency. It's

[49:44] just economy of scale. It's how it works with these projects. The larger volume,

[49:48] the more efficient you can be. and it would also speed up the project start

[49:53] time pending available funding. Some things that will impact the costs is the

[49:58] overall longer pumping distance. So now we'll be pumping it from these canals

[50:02] all the way down to the BV52 dewatering facility down in Palm Bay.

[50:07] Narrow canal access. So it is a lot different to be working in, you know,

[50:12] our galley pit is out there in the causeway. There's no boats. There's no

[50:15] obstructions. It's very different from when you're working in a canal system

[50:18] where you have people's docks. there's a certain distance we have to keep 10 ft

[50:21] off the docks. Um you also have boats. Um we might have boats in the template.

[50:26] There's just a lot of coordination that will need to be done between the

[50:30] contract entity and the citizens. And so there are going to be booster pumps. You

[50:35] it's dredging is not pretty. Um there's going to be some booster pumps, some

[50:39] noises that you might not be expecting. Um but you you heard it here today, so

[50:44] expect it. Um, it also requires you might look into doing waivers. So

[50:51] for the Northern Grand Canal Boulevard County project, we went door to door and

[50:55] delivered waivers for residents to sign that allowed the contractors to get

[50:58] within 5T of their property rather than 10 ft.

[51:03] Um there there's also coordination. If there's a massive sailboat in the dredge

[51:06] template, you might have to move it for a few days while a dredge moves through.

[51:09] Um, so there's a lot of coordinating to do, but it is possible. We got it all

[51:14] done. um with the Northern Grand Canal and it was great getting to work with

[51:17] the residents in that aspect. Um you're always dealing with the

[51:22] potential for rising labor and material cost. That's why timing is of the

[51:25] essence and then any future scheduling delays. So hopefully no hurricanes uh to

[51:32] slow down progress. Overall, like I mentioned, timing is

[51:36] really important for the most optical cost savings. Like Jean mentioned, we're

[51:40] kind of in a good position right now to be taking this piggyback route. Um, but

[51:45] it's also important to have the contractor input as well. Um, because

[51:49] it's going to ultimately impact their means and methods of construction. So, I

[51:52] think we're we're in the right direction. We're coordinating with

[51:55] contractors. We coordinating with you. We're working with the citizens. And I

[52:00] think um we're in a good position to get this going.

[52:04] And you're familiar with this slide.

[52:09] So that is all I have for you. If this has led to any other questions, please

[52:15] let us know. It's a lot to digest. The city mentioned it is on their website

[52:18] though.

[52:38] Um just one quick question and the next steps. I know you said we have to do um

[52:43] one through four, but will we still be bidding this out or this is just all

[52:47] assuming we would be going with Gator? >> Yeah, this is assuming we'd be going

[52:50] with Gator. >> Thank you.

[52:54] » When will that project be done by G? uh December of this year, but a contract

[52:59] would need to be signed around September in order to get still be able to keep

[53:03] the pipes in the water.

[53:10] » So, we can move into public comments at this time. So, if you would like to come

[53:15] up to speak on this item, please step

[53:20] three minutes to speak.

[53:32] Good afternoon. Scott, president of Satellite Beach 625 Simmon. I came

[53:37] before the city council back in 99 and uh us myself along with some of the

[53:41] other homeowners on the Cinn Canal. I asked for help from the city to dredge

[53:46] the cine canal. I had a 41 foot sales having problems with the depth in there

[53:51] as well as the muck is seriously a problem. Uh we did a great job back in

[53:55] 99 2000 when we dredged and positive spoils on island but here we are 25

[54:00] years later and the problem is back canal drains canal continues to outflow

[54:08] into my canal making the depth the problem is there the smells are there

[54:12] nine yards seems insane to me you guys wouldn't go push forward with this $7.6

[54:17] $6 million money sitting here allocated for projects like this. Please don't

[54:21] miss the effort. Get it done. We have an opportunity here that it's not going to

[54:25] come around again anytime soon. As a voter, I certainly want depth, but I

[54:31] also appreciate the fact that the dredging has improved the quality of the

[54:34] border. Over the past 5 years, six years, I've seen the clarity improvement

[54:38] all throughout the canal system. Would you don't mind because you're a boater

[54:43] and you're out there. Would you agree that the bigger canals are right down

[54:49] that's out there's the shallow shallow part

[54:53] in and out? Absolutely. Grand Canal is not the immediate sort of boat.

[54:59] » Absolutely. Although the canal that leads from the uh Grand Canal out to the

[55:04] Banana River should be considered on the north and south side of Simpsons Island

[55:08] and in particular for Indian Harbor Beach. That southern entrance uh can be

[55:12] problematic and if you can take advantage of this opportunity, the

[55:17] mangroves that grow out of the south end of Lansing Island are very dangerous.

[55:21] I've had several near miss collisions. I sound my horn when I come up to that

[55:25] blind turn. Proper boating protocol is that if you hear a horn, you should

[55:29] reciprocate. Said, "Tell me that you're coming." Most voters don't do that. And

[55:33] I come around the turn and then boom, there they are. You almost head into

[55:37] each other. The the mangroves there are just way way overgrown and problematic.

[55:41] Very dangerous.

[55:49] Ron Paul sat beach. I actually have three questions. The first one I want to

[55:52] hit was with Neil because he really hit on the head which has been brought up

[55:55] every time we have a storm water discussion or a canal discussion is how

[56:00] effective will really be in reducing the crap that goes into the canal that

[56:04] causes the market blah blah blah. So I'd love to hear from county if we have any

[56:08] numbers on that how success we've been in reducing it. But the the first

[56:13] question uh who goes first simultaneous dredging or you guys going to flip a

[56:18] coin or whoever has most money who's going first

[56:28] that's probably question

[56:33] how they want to proceed. you could go in first. Whoever signs a contract,

[56:42] » seems to me it's important question by the way. Um the other one is is um book

[56:48] about the You're a good speaker by the way. Um

[56:53] so you mentioned some boats will have to be moved potentially. So, I'm sure

[56:57] Harbor has a lot of der boats under the finger canals like we do and come up

[57:02] some of them aren't going to move be moved and some of the canals are pretty

[57:05] tight here. Grant Court, I think is one of the tightest which just the police

[57:09] boat itself can barely clear the sides going in there. So, how does that work?

[57:14] » The boats that can't be moved. They just have to maintain that 10 foot off

[57:19] five. >> So, if there's So, so contractor have

[57:21] been set tight. I'm sure you have a floating bar. You've had canals where

[57:25] we've either not dredged. So I bring it up. So the police department or some

[57:30] fish and wildlife remove the festival or give us permission to

[57:36] sounds like a big one too. Okay. Thank you.

[57:45] So uh Barbara Sean Glaze we are 2 and 1/2 ft from the wall in depth. So you

[57:54] can imagine what kind of boats can fit in there. Luckily we have bait boats and

[57:58] skips not necessarily sailboats per se but I

[58:04] can tell you some of us that are in our movies. So, and the question is when we

[58:09] get to a foot or 6 in or until we see right on top, when when do we when does

[58:19] our property start really really appreciating because this isn't a

[58:23] concern just about my property going down to 100,000 because I well, you

[58:29] know, our prices are not 100,000 anymore, but you get the idea. going

[58:33] down to a property where we're we're we're now stuck with just kind of

[58:38] land, right? But land that it came to use, land that sinks, the mosquitoes and

[58:42] plants that go along with it. I mean, I much rather not have a house on that mug

[58:48] if we're at that point rather than uh I just make a house just of course beach

[58:54] side, but I don't I don't know. So, and and then where what happens with our

[59:01] taxes in these situations when we can't use when it's no longer a truly water

[59:07] and I know we when you look at all the kind of the paperwork

[59:12] it's maybe habitable maybe not all that kind of stuff you know but paperwork

[59:18] isn't what sells my property the water does you know you look at my water and

[59:24] you say that looks like

[59:28] Well, can't put my vote here. Well, now I've knocked out that entire group of

[59:33] voters regarding boats, right? Specifically my property. So, I've also

[59:38] knocked out all the rich people that want to buy my property, right? Make no

[59:43] assumptions. It's going to be the rich people that buy it, but they can't buy

[59:46] it because they can't split their boats there. And so, now I have to go down to

[59:51] the next more like none of us. But uh no, but I have to get on the next people

[59:57] and then eventually I'm gonna have to go down to the next person. The prices drop

[1:00:01] and so what what happens when now we don't make money

[1:00:05] and y'all don't make money, right? Because eventually my desk here and and

[1:00:11] so when does this payoff become a problem for for y'all or I'm just kind

[1:00:16] of curious because it does, right? It does become a problem and so there has

[1:00:20] to be this kind of balance. So two and a half ft three feet in the in the middle

[1:00:26] that's where the trail and I'm I'm a little beyond the canal moving down

[1:00:33] towards so just uh that's kind of it and and of course I mean the answer I don't

[1:00:39] know even asked that question who drank first my right

[1:00:44] but but that's just a thought I mean I just be nice to

[1:00:49] you know there's there's the thinking and all the things that go along with

[1:00:53] it. There's the doing and then there's the cost and all the smell and everybody

[1:00:56] understands this, but then there's the aspect of using the water and and that

[1:01:02] would be something that'd be nice to do. You know, it's I can tell you right now,

[1:01:06] I can't get my foot away. I can't get my own boat at and you know, when the

[1:01:10] water's dropping and you know, unless the people going on the boat jump up and

[1:01:15] down and then we hop off the boat and I stay on and then we kind of push it off,

[1:01:20] jam it in reverse, m flying all over the damn place. And this is with my engine

[1:01:25] trimmed up. So, don't worry about the engine trous then. And then I move it

[1:01:30] around and I get everybody. That's not voting. That's not the water

[1:01:35] line really. So So just kind of question

[1:01:42] stuff like that. You made a comment that the bar boats can't move.

[1:01:46] » Yeah. Yeah. >> Because we got to get them dredge,

[1:01:49] » right? >> Your comment was based on you feel that

[1:01:52] those boats are just sitting in the buck and they can't move. I can tell you if

[1:01:55] our leaders sail where which is sailbo you know it's it's the heels can cut

[1:02:04] through u but it's not it's not moving and and

[1:02:10] some boats some larger boats just only move because we buy

[1:02:14] not I'm not going to have to that's not ever future but there's a lot of I can

[1:02:18] tell you at the end of our canal you can have a large you know if you and I can

[1:02:25] tell you I don't know if this matters. Um, what if someone decided to they come

[1:02:33] down and visit? What if what if they jumped into my water not understanding

[1:02:37] because I couldn't explain it in time and it's a kid. Yeah, because I've done

[1:02:41] this. I've done it just to figure it out and and I sink, you know, repeat the

[1:02:45] feet in my mind. What if that kid can't get himself out in the ground? I mean,

[1:02:51] is who's responsible? I guess me or or all of us. It doesn't matter,

[1:02:58] right? So or even that's another thing to take in consideration. This this mod

[1:03:04] is tremendous. I don't know if y'all played around in it. So that that's I

[1:03:08] think that's where we get the most value out of doing the clear canals. If we had

[1:03:11] to pick one of them over the other, but that has the immediate impact for you

[1:03:14] guys that live on and also that two feet goes to five to seven feet. hopefully

[1:03:18] not this is grown and open and and you can tell like what coach y'all done to

[1:03:24] part a difference like it makes a difference and just be able to continue

[1:03:28] to have I mean we're we're we're now we're no longer talking I'm so sorry

[1:03:32] we're no longer talking about are we the small beach is I mean so fortunately

[1:03:37] you've been held the time caps where we get to be but trust me the the the west

[1:03:42] isn't coming right so I mean we are coming like every other small beach town

[1:03:48] was, you know, down south and and then the question is how do we grow up and

[1:03:53] how do we move forward? How do we take care of this? And and the answer is we

[1:03:57] have our answers like we have to have methodology processes and I understand

[1:04:01] all this myth is way over my head. Uh that's why I would never do any of this

[1:04:05] stuff that you all do. But but there has to be something where

[1:04:09] we we say okay you know what to become that big town to become that because our

[1:04:15] our houses their million dollar homes in Rier and Palm Bay and all this just

[1:04:20] makes our property expensive people want to be on the water neighbor moved from

[1:04:25] Sunre onto our on our street the other day. He doesn't probably know about the

[1:04:29] deficit but as far as they want to go. So our own houses can only become more

[1:04:34] expensive if we have water. So >> that's why we're here today and we all I

[1:04:39] think we're going to see this move forward I guess once we both do and

[1:04:46] that'll help alleviate a lot of concerns. So the faster we can do that

[1:04:50] the better off we are made year of beach 50 years ago 20 years ago all the houses

[1:04:56] like my house built mansions. What's that do for Texas?

[1:05:06] Alan Dylan 10 foot beach. Uh they were talking about the the removal of the m

[1:05:13] the mugs talk about moving it removing from the middle of the canal. Trying to

[1:05:17] figure out how far now my canal is 120 120 ft 125 wide 125 ft. Now my dock

[1:05:27] comes out 21 ft. Dock on the other side come out. So that leaves about 78 ft out

[1:05:32] the middle bit of by the dots. So how much are we looking about pulling out

[1:05:36] out of that 78 ft in black canal that would be probably appropriate for the

[1:05:40] rest of it? I wondered how much is going to be pulled out. And now my comment I

[1:05:45] think everybody knows how I feel about uh what's happening with the debris

[1:05:51] that's falling in there from not only the yard services but in the cutting of

[1:05:56] the mango the mangrove over on Lancing Island and across from Lancing Island.

[1:06:04] I've been down especially in Indian Harbor Beach where they just cut it and

[1:06:07] just let it blow across the canal grand canal and you see it you see it in

[1:06:12] different areas and it's not everybody but there needs to be some regulation

[1:06:17] and some enforcement to stop this because right now we're talking what

[1:06:22] what are we talking $40 million and now what's going to happen

[1:06:28] 30 years from now if we don't start controlling this stuff it's going to be

[1:06:32] back here back here doing it again because price double except

[1:06:37] I guess my point is is I'm I'm for doing the canal. I think it work. I do see uh

[1:06:44] see some of the problem people have further up the back of the canals.

[1:06:48] Uh I think a good worthy project and I've only been on the rest of this

[1:06:53] county for 68 years. I've seen the destruction of that any river and east

[1:06:58] canal that time and I've got my own opinion on how it all happened over the

[1:07:03] years but we got a lot of a lot of politicians and developers

[1:07:08] contributed to the destruction of this thing. We need to get a handle on it

[1:07:13] thousand times. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:07:19] » My name is Clip Rockwood. I live in Indian Harbor Beach on a finger canal. I

[1:07:23] I know most of you guys. I voted for most of you guys. I know John pretty

[1:07:28] well over the last eight years. I've been emailing him and bugging him and I

[1:07:33] don't know you guys, but I appreciate I've been on boards. I've been in your

[1:07:37] shoes at different counties and uh it's not easy. It's not easy to satisfy

[1:07:43] everyone. It's not easy to fit it in the budget. But I just wanted to say that I

[1:07:47] appreciate the Peter. I think the one thing that we're missing. I appreciate

[1:07:50] the the the presentation and when we hear about, you know, grass clippings

[1:07:56] and things like that, I can't get a boat in. I I haven't. That was my biggest

[1:08:00] complaint. I can't get my boat in. I'm paying for water for uh it's just I know

[1:08:06] some people have a couple feet. I don't have any feet at all. Uh I don't I don't

[1:08:10] have anything. Uh, I've had a landscape guy jump in and it was it was over his

[1:08:17] head. I mean, we're just full. Just absolutely full. And I think the part

[1:08:23] that we're missing is various times throughout the year we

[1:08:28] have emergency outflows from ores and paddles directly into our canals and in

[1:08:34] the upper beach. That's raw sewage. That's something that maybe we haven't

[1:08:39] considered, but that's happened. And it's hundreds of thousands, if not

[1:08:43] millions of gallons of raw sewage. That's what we have. So the nitrogen

[1:08:48] composition and all this stuff that we're talking about is that. So you

[1:08:52] could say grass clippings and things and mitigate this, mitigate that. What are

[1:08:56] we going to do to mitigate outflow? Because if there was 20 million gallons

[1:09:00] of raw sewage on South Patrick Drive, it'd be cleaned up. But because it gets

[1:09:06] dumped in the water, it's kind of like, well, you guys pay a fine and it's, you

[1:09:10] know, get a and then it doesn't get cleaned up. And what happens is that all

[1:09:17] the canals die and and getting a boat in and out, no

[1:09:21] one's going to feel sorry for me, but it's it's a bigger problem. I'd love to

[1:09:24] get a boat out, sure, but the bigger problem is I worry about my kids. I

[1:09:29] worry about cancer. All that stuff is still there. We got to get it done the

[1:09:33] fingertips. So, thanks. Appreciate it.

[1:09:45] Uh, I'm Chip Gri. I I also live on the same street that Cliff live on, but I

[1:09:50] also have a footprint and satellite piece as well. Um, so do we, we'll do a

[1:09:55] little bit of build up and tear down. I am extremely happy to see everybody

[1:10:00] working together between Indian Harbor Satellite Beach, not just on this

[1:10:04] project with some of the other recent initiatives that do.

[1:10:09] So great, great job on the teamwork between we're neighbors, right? So good

[1:10:13] job. Um I share Sean's concern. I brought this up to Clint

[1:10:18] to bring it up and Sean open the door. If we had a kid jump into that muck,

[1:10:24] they're not get and and I and I guarantee you counseling

[1:10:29] would be earning the money. We wouldn't need to have this conversation. You

[1:10:32] won't be able to dredge it fast, right? So, are we going to wait till that

[1:10:37] happens? Um, as far as getting the boat in, I agree with both these guys. I just

[1:10:41] sold my 24 boat because I can't get it on others. I'm paying for large

[1:10:45] property. If this was a road, the canals were

[1:10:50] roads. You leave them in disrepair. Fight for money to get it done. But

[1:10:55] there is there is a significant risk. There's a lot of kids on those canals.

[1:10:59] The first one that goes in, it's going to find themselves slept in the m not

[1:11:03] out. And that this whole this whole, hey, we don't have enough money for

[1:11:07] this, we don't have money for that. It's going to go away. Um, one of the other

[1:11:11] things that I that I've heard not only here tonight, I heard at Indian Harbor

[1:11:15] Beach meeting. I I'm I'm sitting hearing about the property tax potentially going

[1:11:20] away. This project should have been done long before the bus sitting here right

[1:11:26] should have done long ago. Um there's multiple contributing factors that have

[1:11:31] led to this point. The sewage development on and I appreciate the fact

[1:11:37] that they are doing cleanup projects and I also see the water throughout the

[1:11:42] canals and throughout the getting better. There's grasses in areas where

[1:11:46] there wasn't grass 10 years ago, 8 years ago. So, you're starting to see the the

[1:11:52] the improvements really taking a hold. These finger canals, they're they're a

[1:11:56] problem. They're not just a problem from a navigational perspective. They are a

[1:12:01] risk. That's a risk to you guys. It's a risk to whoever's going to defend the

[1:12:07] project that's been done. It's been put on hold.

[1:12:11] So, yeah, votes an issue. the rest of the kids and I don't have any kids by

[1:12:15] the way. So appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you.

[1:12:22] Anyone else?

[1:12:29] Anyone on our council have any additional comments?

[1:12:35] I would just uh just like take the opportunity to say that, you know, it

[1:12:38] took a while to get to that point that we're currently at within the Lagoon and

[1:12:42] that we've came a long way, but we still have a long way to go. Um, anytime you

[1:12:46] get a captive audience, I would like to stress the importance of the half cent

[1:12:50] sales tax. We do do a lot and as you're seeing, you're seeing results and it's

[1:12:54] going to take a while. So, I highly encourage continuing that this year.

[1:13:03] Ju just quickly, I really appreciate your

[1:13:07] comments out there. I don't live on a greenhouse. I don't see it every day,

[1:13:11] but you do. And what you've told us today is is some great information.

[1:13:16] Highly appreciate.

[1:13:21] Okay. So, that's been able to do respective side. Um, so what I'm hearing

[1:13:30] is that there's somebody's unarmed attention

[1:13:34] jurist as well is a desire to move forward with duding finger pen uh with

[1:13:41] the understanding that if there was additional money left over

[1:13:47] that we continue to dredge until we utilize the remainder of that money. And

[1:13:53] in the meantime, while that's going on, we're pursuing other funding sources,

[1:13:58] state appropriations, grants, what have you, uh, to try to do mostly call phase

[1:14:03] two, which be grand. Um, so that's what I'm hearing. And so I

[1:14:10] would unless there's other council input on it

[1:14:16] like to make a motion to uh do initially the canals and then over monies and

[1:14:22] resources would be devoted towards the grand canal and

[1:14:26] all while actively pursuing the potential of the grant state resources

[1:14:32] to do the additional project. >> Second.

[1:14:34] » I'll second. I have a motion by Kevin McDy second by

[1:14:41] Councilman Gori. All those in favor signify by saying I.

[1:14:45] » I. >> I.

[1:14:49] » That was an I.

[1:14:55] » All those same signs.

[1:15:00] Um I think we also need to set aou John is that correct with the city

[1:15:08] of agreement but establish

[1:15:12] um the framework for payment respect for shares

[1:15:18] any other components that need to be included in

[1:15:22] that maintain a motion.

[1:15:30] like to make a motion for the for the multi multi-use area for the facilities.

[1:15:38] » Well, it's it's everything. It's the framework about getting the project done

[1:15:42] in this general agreement between the two cities, how it's paid for, who's who

[1:15:48] pays what share, etc.

[1:15:55] Second >> motion by Mayor Dyer, second by council

[1:15:58] member Romney. All those in favor 75 by saying I

[1:16:01] » I >> I

[1:16:04] same sign. Motion carries 5 it. Thank you, Mr. So then further

[1:16:13] discussion. Yeah. Yeah. We're we're all in agreement that we're piggybacking on

[1:16:19] the current contract that we're both going that we're making these

[1:16:23] agreements. Correct. >> That would be the best.

[1:16:27] » Okay. All right. >> There was there was that comment. I

[1:16:31] don't know where that access canal between the the river and Grand Canal

[1:16:34] Falls. description of the bank account

[1:16:39] that needs to be one of those areas that would have

[1:16:44] in

[1:16:48] so there's a common in the permit or not but it's on it's on the map as far as

[1:16:54] what's going to get drenched if we did fully but I didn't know whether that's

[1:16:59] access canal was considered a finger canal or or a grand canal just because

[1:17:05] it was brought up that that is a restrictive area.

[1:17:08] » Are you talking about the south thing?

[1:17:12] » Oh, well for you it would be on us it would be next to um

[1:17:20] and just that that finger canal that canal whether it aligns with

[1:17:27] an understanding whether it's part of the grand canal or it is a canal. It

[1:17:31] doesn't really change what we're trying to do. Let's just I was asked a

[1:17:34] question. You have one. Of course. I always have questions. So,

[1:17:41] » that can you talk about is the one to the north of Landon Island and south of

[1:17:46] Samson Island. Okay. I went through there yesterday and then my my bottom

[1:17:51] sound was fell. I had three foot of water.

[1:17:54] That's not acceptable. out when Lansen Island was building, the developer had a

[1:18:00] blowout on the the northwest side and blow into that

[1:18:07] and they had to clean it out, but it has never been rained. That means that we

[1:18:13] need to look at this because developer should have should have straightened

[1:18:18] that mess out right there. So, just want to throw that in there because I

[1:18:22] remember it very well. it helped me out.

[1:18:28] » So if that's not that might be the starting place for the leftover money

[1:18:34] » or it's something that we want to make sure it's there and be able to

[1:18:41] money

[1:18:46] session on our side of a motion.

[1:18:52] Well, oh, I was going to say copy paste everything in part

[1:18:58] add to it to clarify that's Samson's

[1:19:03] finger or Frank that would be the only caveat that I

[1:19:08] would add to my first motion that you guys had stated

[1:19:15] basically to execute the finger canals first use the excess money to do the the

[1:19:22] grand canal whatever we had left while pursuing

[1:19:27] additional funds from whatever source we can get to do phase two i.e.

[1:19:35] a second. >> Good summary.

[1:19:42] » I have a motion to second. Is there any further

[1:19:47] » vice mayor? Yeah. >> Yes.

[1:19:51] » S. >> Yes.

[1:19:53] » Yes. That motion passes to follow along with them.

[1:19:59] do basically a memorandum of understanding that we together.

[1:20:06] Do I have a motion for that? Turn copy paste again.

[1:20:13] » Second motion.

[1:20:16] Second further.

[1:20:22] » Yes. Vice. Yeah. >> Yes.

[1:20:27] » Yes. Anything

[1:20:33] further from

[1:20:38] the manager? >> The the only other last piece is the the

[1:20:44] the agreement to do the piggy backing the theater. Are we agreeing to do the

[1:20:47] piggy backing for the engineering as well engineering?

[1:20:52] I'm sorry with >> Okay, we can um yeah, I think we do need

[1:20:57] to decide. already done. That's how it happens.

[1:21:01] » The design and permitting aspect is done, but there's still additional work

[1:21:05] that will have to be done as the project continues. So,

[1:21:08] » okay. So, sounds like we have two more that we need to do. One is to create the

[1:21:13] piggyback um the work on the

[1:21:19] current county gator

[1:21:23] dredging excavating dredging dredging gator dredging to utilize them for

[1:21:29] services. I enterain motion

[1:21:32] » make a motion to utilize gator dredging to piggy back off.

[1:21:40] Second that motion >> motion by councilman Romy second

[1:21:44] councilor. All in favor signify by saying I.

[1:21:47] » I. Those post same sign. Motion carries 5.

[1:21:53] Next, it would be a agreement for us to move forward with

[1:22:00] having a current engineer uh >> back at reality to utilize their

[1:22:09] services to continue the necessary additional

[1:22:13] engineering and permitting efforts uh to get the project ready to work. But

[1:22:19] anyway, I guess they have to do bidding documents as well. specifications for

[1:22:24] the project.

[1:22:28] » Like to make a motion to uh use Atkins Reserve

[1:22:34] by conflict. >> Second.

[1:22:36] » Motion by Mayor Dyer. Second by the council. All those in favor signify by

[1:22:41] saying I >> I

[1:22:43] suppose same sign by

[1:22:51] do the same I'll ask first is there any questions or comments

[1:22:56] I'll entertain a motion about doing the back

[1:23:01] gator

[1:23:05] 7.

[1:23:17] » Yes. Council Chase. >> Yes.

[1:23:20] » Sans. >> Yes.

[1:23:21] » Yes. That motion passes. Uh the second one is to utilize current engineering

[1:23:28] firm currently doing that project for that.

[1:23:44] Yes. >> Yes.

[1:23:47] » Yes. >> Oscar.

[1:23:48] » Yes. Passes. Any further from either side

[1:23:56] discussion?

[1:24:03] I say that uh we're now a jured. Thank you everybody for being here.

Joint Council Meeting - Indian Harbour Beach & Satellite Beach

Transcript