[0:03] Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us today. We're getting folks moved over

[0:06] from the waiting room into the webinar. Um, we appreciate you taking the time

[0:10] out of your day. Um, this is a smaller form of Well, I

[0:14] shouldn't say smaller form of government, but not as many communities

[0:16] have this form of government. So, we're going to have a smaller group today. Um,

[0:20] so hopefully that gives us plenty of time to answer all of your questions.

[0:24] Um, and if we have extra time, we can always wrap up early. So, we appreciate

[0:27] you taking the time. Um, I'm Molly Wheeler. I'm one of the deputy directors

[0:32] at the League. I'm joined today by our legal director, Jared Tingey, who's

[0:36] going to be chatting about, um, how to lead together through different forms of

[0:40] government. This is our third and final webinar in this series. Um, it is for

[0:45] the council manager form of government. So, if you are in a form of government

[0:50] that is either a five-member council, six-member council, or the mayor

[0:54] council, um, know that you're welcome to stay,

[0:57] but this isn't your form of government, and so what you learn, um, isn't going

[1:02] to apply to you. Um, some of the best practices are the

[1:05] same, but, uh, just just be aware of that. Um, as per usual, we're going to

[1:09] record this webinar. We're going to share the slides. So, if you have any

[1:12] questions, um, feel free to let us know. And actually, if you have any questions,

[1:17] um, I'll also pop the link in the chat, but feel free to ask them anonymously. I

[1:21] know sometimes, um, it's a little complicated in some communities of

[1:26] different kind of power dynamics or tensions that people are working

[1:29] through, and so, um, you are welcome to enter your

[1:32] questions in the chat or the Q&A box. Just know that your name will be

[1:36] attached to that. Um, if you'd like to ask a question without your name being

[1:39] attached to that, please feel free to use this link, and I will share that

[1:43] link in the chat with everyone as well. Um, so with that, Jared, I'm going to

[1:48] hand it over to you.

[1:51] » Thank you, Molly. Can you hear me? >> Yes, sir.

[1:56] » Okay, thank you. Okay, well, thank you for being here and

[2:01] thank you Molly for that introduction. Um

[2:04] You are all unique because for the vast majority of folks,

[2:11] they are in different forms of government and the form of government

[2:14] that you are in is

[2:17] is a remnant of what has happened

[2:21] prior to in 2008. So, uh congratulations. So, today we are

[2:28] going to talk a little bit about the key takeaways that I want you to

[2:33] take away from this presentation are one we are all a work in progress.

[2:40] Um we can always do better. We can always lead better. Um and it always is

[2:46] better if we can look at ourselves and say, "How can I improve?"

[2:50] instead of they need to improve. The second is just because you can

[2:55] doesn't mean you should. Um

[2:58] as with as with everything in life. Um and this is one thing that uh

[3:06] you may have the authority to do certain things, but that doesn't always mean

[3:10] that that's the best way to do it. The third is effective communication is

[3:15] the key to strong relationships and those strong relationships are the

[3:20] key to effective leadership. If there is strong communication, strong

[3:26] relationships, almost any problem, almost any conflict can be overcome.

[3:33] And it may take a lot of work. It may take a lot of uh

[3:39] humility and a lot of leadership

[3:42] uh of trying to work with individuals that are so extremely difficult

[3:47] sometimes and that there is conflict. Conflict is a part of life and uh and

[3:54] especially in local governments. So, uh with that, we're going to talk just

[4:00] briefly. I'm not going to go into uh all of that all all that uh

[4:06] is there, but uh related to the council-manager form of

[4:11] government. But, one thing um I [clears throat] will say is that the

[4:16] city manager is uh takes control and has the

[4:20] administrative and executive authority uh and unlike other forms of government

[4:28] where the mayor or the council has that administrative and executive authority,

[4:33] this is the city manager. They are the CEO

[4:36] um while the legislative authority uh remains with the council members and the

[4:42] council, which the mayor is a part of. The council can either be a five-member

[4:47] council or a seven-member council. And the council uh must uh

[4:56] in order to hire a city manager, must approve that city manager with a

[5:00] two-thirds vote. And to dis- dismiss them with a majority vote.

[5:06] Um for the most part, mayor is a ceremonial

[5:11] function and uh they still are the chair and still have a vote uh on the council,

[5:18] but uh overall, it is uh it is more so a ceremonial function.

[5:26] The city manager really takes care of most of the administrative and executive

[5:31] functions. So, what are the top five most common conflicts?

[5:36] Um and I should say this that let me

[5:39] [clears throat] go back to this slide. Um

[5:43] there are two uh two things. One is there is the statutory council manager

[5:50] form of government. And there is, say in a five and six member council, you may

[5:56] have a council manager. And even in a in a mayor council form of government, you

[6:01] may have a city administrator. Um, or otherwise called a city manager.

[6:09] So, this form of government is actually a

[6:13] different form and a different setup. The city manager is actually part of

[6:20] that statutory uh, form of government as opposed to

[6:24] just being hired via an ordinance uh, setting up that position. This is

[6:31] different. Um, although I should say that for the most part, uh, there are a

[6:38] lot of similarities between a council manager and when there is a

[6:44] a man city manager in a five and six member council form, which means it's

[6:50] very flexible. Um, the top five most common conflicts

[6:56] we'll go through and and starting at number one is the authority to set the

[7:01] council agenda. Typically, um,

[7:06] the best way I have seen uh, councils do this is either to have two council

[7:14] members or a council member and the chair, which would be the mayor, um,

[7:21] have something be put on the agenda. Typically, the conflict is that a

[7:26] council member wants something on the agenda

[7:29] and the mayor or the the chair uh, does not want to put that on the agenda. And

[7:36] so, it really hamstrings the council of being able to uh, move forward with

[7:43] policy decisions. Um and so the best way I've seen is in

[7:48] your rules and uh policies for the council to put uh how that is going to

[7:57] work within your council. How is How are agenda items put on the

[8:03] agenda? And how many council members have to

[8:07] uh uh agree to put it on.

[8:10] Um some have council chairs and then uh vice chairs.

[8:15] Um but

[8:18] generally speaking, it's usually surrounding one of those ways, uh but it

[8:25] must be put in your rules and uh procedures for the council.

[8:31] The second conflict is the authority to appoint or dismiss.

[8:36] Now, in a council-manager form of government,

[8:42] I should say that overarching uh across all of these conflicts,

[8:48] when it's between a council member or the mayor and the city manager, the

[8:55] city manager, generally speaking,

[8:59] is uh must be careful on following the guidelines and uh of

[9:07] the entire city council, not just one or two

[9:11] uh members of the council, but what does

[9:14] the whole council want uh as it relates to the policy or even the

[9:20] administrative part? Because again, the city manager can be removed by the

[9:26] city council. So, all of these conflicts have this overarching or overriding uh

[9:36] tone behind them to say, "Look, if the city manager is not doing exactly what

[9:42] the city council is looking for them to do, there is a risk of that being a

[9:48] conflict between the city manager and the council." Um and so, the authority

[9:53] to appoint or dismiss, typically that uh still runs with the council.

[9:59] Um it is flexible, however. It depends really on to what level of authority uh

[10:06] the council gives to the city manager. Now, the city manager is the CEO. They

[10:13] do have the authority to take care of executive functions.

[10:18] Again, going back though, to ensure that the city manager is doing

[10:27] what the majority of the council is wanting,

[10:31] they typically take everything to the council.

[10:34] Um it it does go both ways. I've I know

[10:38] that there are some cities in this form of government that have

[10:43] um have decided to give the city manager

[10:46] that authority cart blanche and say, "You can appoint and dismiss."

[10:52] But typically, it's usually always with the advice and

[10:56] consent of the council. Um

[11:00] with the with the authority to direct staff, city staff, generally speaking,

[11:06] the best uh working, the most effective uh cities with this form of government,

[11:13] you will find will give the city manager that authority to direct staff city

[11:20] staff. And without any sort of uh strings or without any sort of

[11:27] because there is trust there. And so, this is something that the city manager,

[11:33] as well as the city council, can try to establish is that there is trust between

[11:40] uh those two individuals, two two the council and the city manager.

[11:47] Um >> [clears throat]

[11:48] » So, generally speaking, um

[11:52] when it comes to the authority to direct staff, it's usually lies with the city

[11:57] manager, but again, it comes back down to what is the city council wanting

[12:04] um and it it typically comes back down to the city staff. Now, be aware though

[12:11] uh that again,

[12:15] a one member of the council cannot make decisions

[12:21] uh and policy direction and administrative

[12:26] decisions in and of themselves

[12:29] to um to guide the city. It is a majority

[12:34] of the city council. Um and so, be aware of that that

[12:41] I've seen at some points a a city council say,

[12:46] "Hey, you you know what? Or or I'm sorry, a city council member say,

[12:52] "Staff, you need to do this." And that puts the staff in a really awkward

[12:58] position. Do I uh go and ask my city manager who

[13:03] has the authority? Should I because this the the council member's asking me to do

[13:08] something? Um and change uh a certain policy,

[13:12] should I do it? Again, coming back,

[13:16] the city council has the authority to decide what the

[13:21] policy is. And although to a large degree, this form of

[13:28] government gives that executive power to the city manager.

[13:33] There's always that overriding concern of am I doing what city

[13:38] uh majority of the city council have asked

[13:42] me to do. Uh the fourth is the authority to

[13:45] develop and adopt a budget. This is typically presented uh either by

[13:52] the city manager or a budget officer that's hired by

[13:57] uh by the city to uh to run the budget, to

[14:02] do the budget and the finances. And with the help of the city manager

[14:07] they develop a budget and present that to the city council. Obviously the city

[14:12] council still has the authority to say this is what our budget will be

[14:17] and to change or modify that, but that is the uh generally the the the

[14:25] mechanism and the way of which a budget is uh adopted and passed.

[14:31] The fifth is the authority to enter into contracts for the city.

[14:36] I've seen it both ways. Some sometimes cities in this form of government will

[14:42] allow the city manager to sign and enter into contracts that are

[14:48] below a certain dollar amount. Um other city councils have said we want

[14:55] to see every contract. Um and even for those that uh give the

[15:02] authority, give that that authority to the city manager

[15:07] typically the city manager still takes those contracts to the city council for

[15:14] consideration. But it all depends on on really how

[15:19] those how you would like those uh that process to work within your city.

[15:25] Um here are the top five really most

[15:29] unhelpful responses. Um airing your dirty laundry in a public

[15:34] forum. If a city council member has a

[15:39] is having challenges with either a city manager or the mayor or another city

[15:44] council member or staff.

[15:47] City council uh meeting is not the place to

[15:53] uh have that fight, to have that conversation.

[15:58] Can there and will be will there be conflict? Will there be challenging the

[16:04] ideas? Yes. But it doesn't become personal against the individual. It

[16:08] becomes an attack on the idea. We'll talk a little bit about that in in

[16:13] a moment. Uh the second is officially censuring

[16:17] the elected official. I can't unless there is some criminal

[16:23] unethical action.

[16:27] I have not found any benefit of officially censuring

[16:33] a city council member uh for

[16:38] for doing um or acting the way that they're acting.

[16:43] Now, is the chair responsible for making sure

[16:47] the meetings uh are orderly? Yes.

[16:52] But those mechanisms can typically be pointed out and written down in a

[16:59] rules and procedures of the council such that it is defined of this is what

[17:07] um this is what will lead to the

[17:12] uh expelling of a city council member from the meeting. This is what a- and

[17:17] writing that out and having that down. It's really all about the process.

[17:21] Again, the communication. If everyone is on the same page, then

[17:26] there isn't this surprise that this behavior is going to be treated this

[17:32] way. Uh the third is discussing the conflict

[17:35] with others just for the sole reason to gain allies.

[17:39] This is not the same as discussing the actual idea

[17:45] and trying to persuade others about that

[17:50] idea. But if the sole reason that you or

[17:54] others are going to other individuals is to gang up or to

[18:01] um

[18:03] to gather allies uh against that individual for their

[18:09] personality or for their just as that individual, that's not helpful.

[18:15] Um focusing on the actual ideas and policy is what will be helpful.

[18:24] Uh the fourth is believing and acting as though your behavior or political

[18:27] position is 100% defensible and justified.

[18:32] It's not, but even if it is,

[18:35] uh and even if you believe it is, there there are back to one of the key

[18:39] takeaways, there is always room for improvement.

[18:44] Uh we all have things that we can change.

[18:47] And and so recognizing that

[18:51] and moving forward in effective communication can lead to a uh

[18:56] a well-run smooth city. That doesn't mean that there won't be conflict.

[19:01] There's always conflict. In fact, I would say conflict is very good uh

[19:07] because it can vet out ideas that are not uh practical or not the direction

[19:13] that the city should be taking. But, it's how it's done. And the

[19:18] behavior uh that it's done in that makes a

[19:22] difference. The fifth is mistaking policy difference

[19:26] for character flaws. Again, um I should say

[19:30] focusing on the policy is what matters most, not on Everyone has character

[19:35] flaws. Um and if you don't think that,

[19:39] that's a character flaw. Uh

[19:41] and so, everyone has room for improvement. So, those are probably the

[19:47] five most unhelpful responses I've seen. And um and that leads us really into the

[19:55] the top five practical solutions. And I'll give this over to Molly to discuss

[20:01] uh to discuss those solutions. >> Thanks, Jared. And thanks, everyone. Um

[20:06] as a reminder, you're welcome to enter your questions either into the Qualtrics

[20:10] link that we have in the chat um to ask an anonymous question or if you're

[20:15] comfortable asking the question with your name, um you're welcome to use the

[20:18] chat or the Q&A function for that. Um so, a couple of things that we wanted to

[20:23] walk through. We've been working over the last year with um Professor Danya

[20:27] Redmore, who's now up at Utah State. And she does a lot of work on negotiation

[20:32] and conflict and really helping people build a practical skill set to navigate

[20:37] conflict. I think a lot of times we see different um initiatives and

[20:44] uh kind of goals um

[20:47] around disagree better or the dignity index or um you know, reaching across

[20:52] the aisle, but we don't necessarily always get the practical tools to do

[20:55] that. And so, we've really worked with Danya over the last year to help build a

[20:59] curriculum that helps people build the skill set they need to navigate conflict

[21:04] and negotiate effectively. Um it'll be in a future slide, but after annual this

[21:09] year, we're going to have a like a 3/4 day training with Donya at Murray City

[21:14] Hall that we encourage folks to sign up for. You can either sign up for it as an

[21:18] addition to your annual registration or um, if you're not able to attend annual,

[21:23] you can just attend that as a solo event. Um, it's always been a really

[21:27] successful thing and folks have really enjoyed it. So, we would encourage you

[21:30] to check that out. Um, so first, I think it's really important as we are seeing

[21:35] more and more uh kind of folks reaching out to us talking

[21:40] about how they are navigating different types of conflict in their

[21:43] municipalities and how they can go about it. I think one of the most important

[21:48] things to keep in mind is that conflict just is.

[21:51] Um, it's not good, it's not bad. I think a lot of us are raised um, to be pretty

[21:56] conflict averse. I know that conflict makes me pretty anxious. I'm pretty

[22:00] conflict averse. But, I think it's worth remembering that

[22:03] conflict is really normal. Um, and conflict [clears throat] is normal even

[22:08] within ourselves. Um, right? You might wake up and wonder uh if you should

[22:12] sleep in or go to the gym. That is conflict, right? And that is within

[22:16] yourself and something that you are actively navigating.

[22:19] Um, and I think when you are in a community and you're a municipal leader,

[22:25] it's really natural for people to have that level of concern, right? Because

[22:31] people just want what's best for their community and those can be different

[22:35] visions at times. Um, and so I think it's worth

[22:38] remembering that we don't need to eliminate conflict, we just need to

[22:41] figure out how to navigate it effectively. And we don't necessarily

[22:45] need to always be in agreement, but we just need to figure out how we can

[22:49] navigate disagreement to move forward. So, the second thing with that is to

[22:55] really make sure that you are listening actively and seeking to understand

[22:59] folks. Um, I think a lot of times when we get into conflict, it's very easy to

[23:05] make assumptions about what folks are thinking and why.

[23:11] Um, so really try to listen to folks that you are disagreeing with and

[23:16] do so to understand them, not to formulate your response or your

[23:20] rebuttal. Um, don't assume that you know what

[23:22] they're going to say. Don't assume that you know why they're going to say it. I

[23:26] think a lot of times you can do well if you slow down, ask questions, um, and

[23:32] specifically open-ended questions. Things like, "Tell me more about your

[23:36] concern. What are you most worried about? What would a good outcome look

[23:40] like for you? What am I missing?"

[23:43] And then try as you can to reflect back what you've heard, right? So, if I'm

[23:47] understanding you correctly, then this is what you're trying to communicate.

[23:52] And you don't have to agree with someone to make them feel heard. And I think

[23:55] that you see this often times if you're on council or working for a city, right?

[24:01] There are times that someone may come in for public comment and the city or town

[24:05] is going to go a different direction but then what they are asking for, but the

[24:10] process of making them feel heard and respected goes a long way. Um, so we

[24:16] encourage you to do that with one another as well.

[24:19] The third is to really making sure that you are regulated,

[24:23] um, in both your body and your mind. I think we live in a very disregulating

[24:26] time with our phones and the news being what it is, there's always um, you know,

[24:31] a lot of stimulus out there and it is very easy for us to get pretty activated

[24:37] and conflict activates us. And when you are activated in conflict, you're not

[24:42] really using your higher thinking, you're definitely more in your lizard

[24:46] brain. And so, notice as best you can when you are getting defensive,

[24:52] frustrated, angry, anxious. Um, and it's fine to take some time and calm down or

[24:58] really get a level. Um, we encourage you not to respond at your highest level of

[25:03] emotion. Take a breath, slow down. Be careful with your texts and emails,

[25:08] especially since those can be records or frequently records. Um, that can be

[25:13] accessed later. And just remember that usually regulating yourself is the first

[25:18] step towards de-escalating a situation. Um, the fourth is something that I think

[25:22] is really helpful for us to consider. Um, and that's to differentiate your

[25:27] position from your interest. And what does that mean? So, a position is what

[25:32] you want, but an interest is why you want it. And I think often times in

[25:36] public policy, and in life in general, we talk about things in the realm of

[25:42] positions. So, I do or don't want to approve of this, um,

[25:48] housing development, commercial use, mixed-use rezone, what have you, right?

[25:53] We talk about the thing itself, and whether or not we support or oppose it,

[25:57] but we rarely get to the underlying issue of why, right? Are we concerned

[26:02] about traffic? Are we concerned about infrastructure?

[26:05] Are we concerned that we're losing jobs, and that this could be a really good

[26:10] economic motor for our community? Um, so don't get stuck arguing over

[26:15] positions with folks. Really try to chat with them and understand what is

[26:20] underneath it. And I think a helpful exercise can be for yourself and others

[26:24] to to keep asking why. So, if you do or don't support, you know, we'll say you

[26:29] are opposed to a mixed-use rezone. Why are you opposed

[26:34] to that? And maybe you get another answer, right? Of like, well, I'm

[26:36] concerned about traffic in the area. Okay, why are you concerned about

[26:39] traffic in the area? Are you concerned about safety, right? Is it, well, my

[26:43] kids walk on that road to go to school. And so, really maybe the issue isn't

[26:48] that it's a mixed-use development, maybe it's that you're worried that it's going

[26:51] to bring more traffic to the area and make the roads less safe. And that's a

[26:55] different problem to solve than just objectively saying yes or no to a

[26:59] development from the beginning. It gives you more interesting problems to solve

[27:03] and solvable problems more than just a yes no um across the board on a lot of

[27:09] those things. It lets you be a pretty collaborative negotiator.

[27:13] Um and then the final one is that process matters. And I think that this

[27:16] is something that we are seeing again and again um across different forms of

[27:21] government. In Utah, as we've been chatting about, we have multiple forms

[27:25] of government. And so the way that something works in your community based

[27:29] on the way statute has established your form of government isn't necessarily how

[27:34] it's going to work in a different form of government. And even even though,

[27:37] right, we have council manager for this form of government,

[27:41] the ordinances and resolutions you pass as your community will change what your

[27:45] processes look like. And so if you don't have good processes, you should

[27:49] establish them. You should make sure everyone knows them. And recognize that

[27:54] how you go about making decisions is just as important as the decisions you

[27:58] make often. And so making sure that people feel heard, understand the

[28:03] process that you're going to follow so that even if you they don't get their

[28:05] way, they understand why and how that decision was made. Um and be really

[28:11] clear about how people can participate. When are things a council decision? When

[28:15] are things a mayor's decision? When are things a city manager's decision or

[28:18] staff? Um the more processes that you can have and making it clear what

[28:25] individuals lanes are and are not, the more you're going to be able to cut down

[28:29] on conflict just because that general confusion of who has what job isn't

[28:35] there. Um so those are kind of our big

[28:38] takeaways. Um again, credit to Professor Tanya Moyle. We definitely encourage you

[28:43] to come check out her training um at the end of October, Uh but with that Jared,

[28:50] I will hand it back to you and again encourage folks to submit questions

[28:54] either in the chat or through that Qualtrics link. And I will

[28:58] say as of right now we don't have any questions, which is

[29:01] fine, but if you do have questions, please

[29:04] please let us know so we can make sure we take the most advantage of this time.

[29:12] And I saw someone raise their hand. We can't since we're in a webinar, we can't

[29:16] have you speak, but Council Member Burrell, if you can enter

[29:21] your comment into the chat or through that QR code, we can make sure that we

[29:30] cover what you want to discuss.

[29:42] Excellent. I'll flag again after looking at our participant list.

[29:46] We have a handful of folks who are from the council manager form of government.

[29:51] We also have a lot of folks who are have are from forms of government that

[29:56] have managers or have chief administrative officers, but

[30:00] aren't necessarily this form of government. So keep in mind there's only

[30:04] a handful of communities that follow this form of government. It's Brian

[30:09] Head, Cottonwood Heights, Holiday, Orem, and West Valley. This is that

[30:13] grandfathered form of government. So you may not have this even if you do have a

[30:18] five-member council and a city manager, and we can make sure we get you the

[30:22] resources for that as well.

[30:33] All right, I'm not seeing any questions come in or anything from the chat.

[30:37] Council Member Burrell, I want to make sure we cover your

[30:41] uh question if you have one. So, I'll we'll

[30:44] hang on for a moment um if that comes in and if not, we're happy to touch base

[30:48] with you offline as well. So, we'll just give it another moment or

[30:53] two to see what comes in.

[30:57] And as a reminder, I know we were just discussing on the conflict competence

[31:02] workshop that we're going to do with Donya. Um also encourage you all to sign

[31:06] up for annual. This is the last time we'll be in Salt Lake for a while as the

[31:09] Salt Palace gets ready uh to shut down temporarily for renovations ahead of the

[31:14] Olympics. So, definitely encourage you to join us for that. I'll drop the link

[31:19] in the chat for anyone um who still needs to sign up.

[31:23] Uh we've been working really hard on the programming. Um our keynote speaker is

[31:27] going to be uh Frank Abagnale from Catch Me If You Can, the guy uh the former

[31:33] fraudster turned um fraud prevention expert for the FBI. So,

[31:38] that should be a good time as well. Um here we go. Council member Burrell, um

[31:43] can you give an example of how a council creates a policy to change from a city

[31:49] manager um appointing an all citizen committee assignment? So, Jared, kind of

[31:54] how do you how could the council go about changing

[31:59] the um that kind of domain within the city

[32:04] manager's authority?

[32:13] And you're muted, Jared.

[32:28] Um Jared, I'm requesting to unmute you, but

[32:32] I think you need to select it.

[32:45] » And maybe we can stop screen sharing if that makes things

[32:49] easier.

[33:02] And if not, Councilmember Bro, we might just have to follow up with you offline.

[33:06] » Oh, there we go. Okay. >> There we go. Never mind.

[33:09] We can hear you, Joe. >> Okay.

[33:11] I'm I'm sorry. I don't have access to what the question was. Molly, would you

[33:15] mind >> Yeah, absolutely. So, um the question

[33:19] was about how you amend or adjust the city manager's authority within this

[33:25] form of government. So, one of the examples was right now, if the city

[33:30] manager has the authority to appoint all the citizen committee assignments, is

[33:35] there a way to pass ordinance or resolution to make it

[33:39] so that the council could have more discretion um as to who that is.

[33:44] » Yeah, it would just be uh like uh like was said, just passing an ordinance

[33:51] and uh getting it on the agenda and passing an ordinance.

[33:55] And uh that really controls. I think that one of the um the things that city

[34:01] managers do have to have at the back of their minds is that things

[34:06] uh if they're not done according to what the city council is looking to to uh

[34:12] to run as their policy, then uh they may they may face some some

[34:18] challenges [clears throat] uh

[34:20] up to and including um the city moving on from that city manager.

[34:25] Um and that's just the reality of this form of government.

[34:29] Um >> Mhm.

[34:31] And I think the next question goes along a little bit with that as well.

[34:35] Best practices for kind of advice and consent from the council

[34:39] and how you can create more transparency with that.

[34:44] » Yeah, when when you are appointing or

[34:47] dismissing >> [clears throat]

[34:49] » I've seen I've seen

[34:52] see if I can

[34:59] Am I still there? >> You're still here.

[35:01] » Okay, I'm sorry. I'm having technical difficulties all over here.

[35:04] » All good. We're doing this from the road today, so we're making the most of it.

[35:09] » Yes, apologies. So

[35:12] I would say that that it really comes down to

[35:18] if the city wants to

[35:23] I would recommend having an ordinance that says that it comes to the city

[35:28] council for advice and consent. Advice and consent really means that

[35:34] they are taking the city manager's suggestion

[35:39] and either saying yes or no. That's really what it comes down to.

[35:44] And so if there is someone that does not if the council does not like

[35:53] an appointment they can then say, you know what, we're

[35:58] not we don't want to appoint them to this and then the city manager will have

[36:03] to come back with another name. Someone else.

[36:07] And they can then decide the city council do we want to accept

[36:12] this individual or not?

[36:16] And sometimes the city council has just given the city

[36:22] manager the authority to make certain appointments.

[36:26] Um and have that ability and that

[36:30] flexibility. So, it it all comes down to to to a great

[36:35] degree what your city council's looking to

[36:40] um run as their policy.

[36:43] » Excellent. Excellent. Um what about are is it um

[36:48] requirements that the city manager lives within the city? Can you speak to that a

[36:51] little bit? >> Uh it is not uh required. That would be

[36:56] a city policy. >> Okay. Excellent.

[36:58] » may be. >> Um perfect. I'm going to give it just a

[37:02] couple more questions or moments to see if another question comes in, but

[37:07] otherwise, um

[37:11] yeah, and then uh just do you have any feedback on

[37:14] um I guess kind of again like standardizing

[37:18] processes so that um maybe council members can provide

[37:23] feedback to the city manager it appears in the council agenda. So, maybe kind of

[37:28] more um

[37:30] » I highly highly recommend that there be a communication. Again, it

[37:36] goes back to that effective communication. And if that's set out in

[37:40] rule that if anything is on the agenda, it must be

[37:44] uh you know, you can set it up however

[37:47] you'd like, vetted through uh at least two members of the council

[37:50] or three members of the council. It really um the city council

[37:56] as they describe and rule what they would like to see on the agenda,

[38:01] they really have that ability to say, "We want

[38:06] we want to have discussions before it's in

[38:12] in city council meeting." Now, to be clear, that doesn't mean that city

[38:17] council meets outside of an open and public meeting.

[38:21] What that means is that there are discussions with the city manager about

[38:26] specific um about specific

[38:31] issues that uh will be heard in the city council meeting. So, it really depends

[38:36] on how your city sets it up. And I would highly recommend that anything that goes

[38:42] on the agenda be

[38:45] you can discuss it in a work session. You can discuss it outside of the

[38:49] meeting so long as a quorum is not present and the intent is not to avoid

[38:54] or skirt the open and public meetings act.

[38:58] Um highly recommend that.

[39:02] Fine. >> Perfect. Um it looks like that has

[39:06] covered all of our questions. Um so, with that I think we'll go ahead

[39:10] and wrap this up a little early today. Um thank you all so much for taking the

[39:14] time to join us. Um again, uh if this was your form of

[39:18] government, we hope you found it helpful. If this wasn't your form of

[39:21] government, um we uh hope you also found it helpful. A lot of the key takeaways

[39:25] are the same. Um although the authority looks different. So, um we can get you

[39:29] the resources to those forms of government and um

[39:33] Jared runs our legal Q&A and you can find that on our website. So, if you

[39:37] have questions about your form of government, um navigating some of these

[39:42] policies and procedures, or just other kind of general legal Q&A type

[39:46] questions, um we encourage you to uh submit those to Jared so we can try to

[39:50] help you out. Thanks for joining us, everyone.

Leading Together: Mayors, Councils, and Effective Governance for Council-Manager Cities and Towns

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