[0:00] All the participants, we're going to speak in English, we're going to speak in English.

[0:04] What is going on? Isn't the office seat?

[0:07] It's very good.

[0:08] I'm just trying to find out.

[0:20] Oh, we're going.

[0:23] I think it's your turn.

[0:25] I think it's for our attention.

[0:36] I got another one at home, but I just, I haven't transferred stuff over yet.

[0:41] I know.

[0:42] I'm in the store works, but.

[0:44] I'm going to pay a charge for you.

[0:46] Yeah, I see.

[0:47] I have a 19-year-old son to prove it.

[0:49] I don't know if

[1:05] it's ready.

[1:10] Ready?

[1:12] Okay.

[1:14] Welcome, everyone.

[1:16] We can call this meeting to orders as a meeting of the Case of the City Planning Commission.

[1:20] It is June 25th.

[1:22] Welcome everyone who is here and attendance as well as those that are watching online.

[1:29] Agenda item number two, Declaration of Conflict of Interest.

[1:33] Seeing none, we will look at Agenda item number three,

[1:39] election of a new chair and vice chair for the Plan of Commission.

[1:43] Now I should point out I guess we had a little conversation before the meeting.

[1:47] The by-laws technically state that this is supposed to happen in the first meeting of July.

[1:53] And this is not quite July.

[1:56] We talked about it.

[1:58] We don't think that there's a big issue that we could, you know,

[2:04] you know, if the chair can suspend certain rules and we kind of debated.

[2:07] And so I guess I wanted to find out how comfortable the commission is voting on this right now instead of going through our next meeting.

[2:17] Anyone have any concerns with doing it right now?

[2:24] Okay.

[2:27] Then we will take any nominations for a new Plan and Commission chair.

[2:46] I will nominate Erin Young as a new chair.

[2:51] And I think we should point out you can refuse the nomination if you are uncomfortable with it.

[3:00] Oh, second that.

[3:04] Any other nominations?

[3:10] Mr. Chair, I move the nomination cease and that Aaron be chosen by acclamation.

[3:19] I've seen that there are no more nominations.

[3:24] I think it says that, right?

[3:25] We don't actually have to vote if there's only one nominee.

[3:29] But all in favor of Aaron Young is the new chair.

[3:32] Aye.

[3:32] Any opposed?

[3:35] All right. We'll now open up nominations for a vice chair.

[3:55] I nominate Jeremy.

[4:06] And nominations do not need a second, I believe.

[4:12] So that was my understanding,

[4:18] but I tried to read through the robber two wheels real quick, but

[4:21] I'll second it again.

[4:24] Sure. It's good to have that anyway.

[4:26] I agree. Jeremy would get.

[4:29] Any other nominations?

[4:36] Okay,

[4:39] all those in favor?

[4:41] All right.

[4:42] All right.

[4:42] Any opposed?

[4:44] All right.

[4:51] You okay with what?

[4:51] Did you want to take over right now?

[4:53] I'd say continue.

[4:54] Okay.

[4:55] We'll start that then.

[4:56] Next up.

[4:58] Next up.

[4:59] Next up.

[5:00] Next up.

[5:02] All right.

[5:02] Jen, I have number four.

[5:04] Public hearing for a reason request for the property.

[5:06] Located at 820 Mayor Circle from A5 heavy agricultural to R116 single family residential.

[5:12] Thank you, Chair Packer.

[5:16] I apologize for the miss numbering there without many to keep me in check.

[5:19] Clearly, I can't count.

[5:21] Anyway, this application from Suzy Hansen is to rezone the property at 820 Mayor Circle to R16.

[5:33] It was requested that I provide a clarification that this application by Suzy is not in any way affiliated with or connected to Symphony Holmes.

[5:42] is just choosing Hansen's application.

[5:45] As you can see here, it is currently zoned A5

[5:49] and primarily surrounded by residential agriculture.

[5:56] As far as the general plan, there are three heat goals that really speak to

[6:03] support of this application, the first being goal 1, which is to provide

[6:09] from Chapter 1 to provide a full range of housing opportunities to meet the economic lifestyle

[6:15] and lifestyle.

[6:16] Life cycle needs for next petations for residents and to rezone densities to facilitate the

[6:21] production of modern income housing, goal 6 to continue the established focus of single

[6:26] family residential uses and goal 8 to provide a range of housing options that help ensure

[6:33] caseville is an affordable place to live.

[6:36] And looking at the Future Online News Map, it does show this area as being intended for a single family zoning.

[6:45] So both the Future Online News Map and those components of the general plan do provide support for this application.

[6:53] As far as public noticing in comments, sign was placed on the property on Thursday, June 18th, total of 78 notices were mailed out.

[7:04] We received two phone calls, one of which was just

[7:08] inquiring the nature, the reason process,

[7:10] and the other was requesting clarification

[7:14] on the application and expressing opposition.

[7:17] We've also had 19 total comments submitted

[7:20] to the Planck Mission Regramnis application,

[7:23] 17 were in opposition, one was neutral,

[7:27] and one was from the applicant.

[7:30] Broad range of concerns expressed primarily about traffic levels, preservation of open space, the development agreement that is tied in some respects to the Equestrian Center, the change in density that this application would enable and the compatibility was surrounding lots.

[7:50] So based on support from the 2022 General Plan and the Future Laney's map staff recommends

[7:56] applying a mission to provide a recommendation of approval, the City Council for the

[8:00] Reson of 820 Mayor Circle from A5, heavy agriculture to R16, single-family residential.

[8:08] And the applicant is here to answer questions.

[8:13] Do you want to make any statements or presentation here at the beginning or ends up here?

[8:20] Sure.

[8:23] Okay, do we have any questions for staff before we get to the public hearing portion?

[8:34] The only question that I have is is there any kind of a applicant development concept that was submitted or anything like that?

[8:44] No.

[8:44] Nothing.

[8:46] Okay.

[8:49] All right.

[8:51] So we will then open up the public hearing portion of this.

[8:57] I'll give you an opportunity to come forward.

[8:59] Share any thoughts that you have.

[9:02] There are a few cards out there that explain a few of the rules.

[9:06] We ask that you just come up state your name.

[9:08] You are limited to three minutes.

[9:13] And we ask that the audience doesn't

[9:16] wooer clap or whatever to react to comments just so we

[9:20] keep it as open and welcoming to everyone.

[9:28] Yeah, I think that's everything.

[9:32] So, and for anyone who is moving this might be new,

[9:34] we generally don't hold discussion during your time.

[9:36] It's your time to talk.

[9:38] And so you can pose questions.

[9:40] And if we can find answers afterwards,

[9:43] we'll do that, but we won't engage in trying

[9:46] to answer those questions at that moment.

[9:49] All right, so that is open, whoever would like to come up.

[10:01] Hi, my name is John Mayer. I am a resident of Kaysville. I live in West Kaysville.

[10:07] Just up there street from the existing Equestrian Center and I just wanted to voice. I think

[10:12] what a lot of people in our neighborhood have this similar concern of losing this

[10:18] Equestrian facility, even though we don't necessarily use it. We actually are among the people

[10:22] who do have horses in West Kaysville still and it's kind of very disappointing to us when we

[10:30] lot in the sense that a question in the states, the idea was that we would be in an area

[10:35] that was supportive of that sort of, you know, that past time, and it feels like that is

[10:42] disappearing in West case alone. And I'm not even as concerned about the density of the

[10:47] potential development there, I'm concerned about the loss of the open space in the Equestrian

[10:51] Center. And so, you know, the density is a secondary issue. I'm not sure that's going to

[11:00] I'm not actually familiar with how far this has gone through the city and where things are.

[11:06] I understand that I see the recommendation from the planning commission, but anyway that's I think it concerned a lot of people have on the west side.

[11:15] I'm sure there will be some additional comments, but again, thank you for your attention.

[11:22] Thank you.

[11:35] Hi there, I'm Stacy Biergard and I live in South Weaver City, so just north of here.

[11:43] I just wanted to speak because this space is really important to me.

[11:48] And I want to help protect it.

[11:53] I really feel like this space has built a community.

[11:58] It's been a center for learning and for personal development and growth and healing.

[12:07] When I came to this space a couple years ago, I had been in an accident and it was pretty

[12:14] traumatized and so this space has really been a place of comfort and healing and just

[12:23] a wonderful place for community.

[12:26] It's mentioned in the rezoning proposal that a key goal is to preserve and protect

[12:33] K'sville's small town field and this place really symbolizes that small town

[12:40] field. It's a place that's home to agriculture, a place where people gather to

[12:46] support each other and help each other, where we bring our families and we share

[12:51] meals with each other and we play games, and not only is this a place for horses and a

[12:58] home to horses, but it's a home to other animals on the property. You know, of course

[13:04] there's the cows, but we also have blue herons on the property. We have quail, ducks, all

[13:10] kinds of different birds. And you know, this is their home too. So I'm coming to just

[13:19] to please protect this space.

[13:22] Thank you.

[13:32] Hello, my name is Nicole Stead.

[13:34] I live in Caysville.

[13:35] I live on Flint Street, and I also currently have a horse

[13:38] at Sunset Equestrian.

[13:41] Tonight's decision is about much more than just

[13:44] 98thers of land.

[13:45] It's about whether Caysville is willing to lose one of its

[13:48] last remaining equestrian facilities.

[13:51] Sunset is more than a boarding facility.

[13:53] It is a home to a 4-H program that gives local

[13:56] use opportunities to develop responsibility, leadership, and a connection to agriculture.

[14:03] My 12-year-old daughter is part of that 4-H program, and she's been participating in

[14:08] those 4-H events for the last few years.

[14:10] Like our soccer fields, pickleball courts, and parks, since that provides an important recreational,

[14:16] educational, and community resource for caseville residents.

[14:19] As land prices continue to rise, owning properties for horses is becoming very difficult for families, making a question centers like sunset, one of the few places where people can continue to ride, learn and participate in the horse community.

[14:37] Last summer, Susie Hansen told me the lesson program was the strongest it ever had been. She credited the new highway that came in behind it to increase visibility for bringing in more students.

[14:48] From what I personally witnessed daily, the facility is serving a true need in our community.

[14:54] Just within my 13 homes, in my little neighborhood and caseville, four girls were taking writing lessons.

[15:00] The arena, boarding, barns, and lesson program were consistently busy, showing there is a strong community demand for an equestrian facility like this in K'sville.

[15:12] Just last month, city council recognized the equestrian, recognized that equestrian properties like sunset are an important part of K'sville's history and K'sville's history of agriculture and they should be preserved whenever reasonably possible.

[15:26] If this property is rezone, there is no going back.

[15:30] 66 homes can be built elsewhere, but a facility like Sunset cannot be simply recreated

[15:36] once it's gone.

[15:38] Places like this are becoming increasingly rare, making them even more valuable to our

[15:42] community.

[15:43] Please protect Sunset Equestrian Center.

[15:46] Once it's gone, Kaysville City will lose one of its pieces of heritage and a community

[15:51] asset that future generations will never have the opportunity to experience.

[15:55] I ask you to preserve the current agricultural zoning.

[15:59] The question before the city is not whether or not homes can be built there, but whether

[16:04] case will still value having an equestrian center and open space in this location.

[16:09] And I firmly believe that answer is yes.

[16:11] I respectfully ask you to deny the reason.

[16:15] Thank you.

[16:31] Thank you.

[16:31] The name is Marikai Thurber.

[16:33] I live on Thurberett Circle in synthetic question.

[16:37] And we moved to K'sville in December, so we haven't been here very long.

[16:48] We moved there specifically, one of the big reasons was because there were trails that

[16:57] horses could walk on all through the neighborhood.

[17:04] The Equestrian Center was just down the street. Yes, we own a horse.

[17:15] It is part of the things we love.

[17:22] And here we are six months later, losing it. We haven't even got everything all moved into the house yet.

[17:33] It is heartbreaking to find that these kind of facilities are completely disappearing from our environment.

[17:48] I don't think there's anywhere else in Northern Utah and believe me I've been to almost every barn in the state,

[17:57] where this kind of facility where your kids can actually walk down to the barn

[18:04] and work with their horse is available.

[18:10] It just isn't available.

[18:13] And once this one is gone,

[18:19] you cannot replace it.

[18:21] There is nowhere else for that kind of opportunity.

[18:27] It was my understanding when we moved in that the facility was tied in with the HOA.

[18:37] And so I'm curious what kind of how that can work, how it can just be resumed, and

[18:46] still be part of the HOA.

[18:48] it doesn't seem right to me. I also have one question. I'll want to urge you. Please

[19:04] vote against this rezoning. It seems against everything that our Western

[19:14] live style and our Western values stand for. My one question is exactly what is our

[19:25] one six single-family residential mean in this community. Thank you. Thank you.

[19:44] Thank you for

[19:44] the opportunity to speak tonight. My name is Holly Akkar and I am a resident okay as

[19:49] So regarding the proposed zone change for 820 mayor circle from agriculture to residential,

[19:55] I respectfully ask the commission to recommend denial of this application.

[20:00] The significance of this decision is not simply a change in zoning on a single parcel.

[20:05] It is a decision about whether one of Cavesville's few remaining equestrian properties

[20:10] should be permanently converted into a residential development.

[20:13] Caseville's General Plan repeatedly identifies preservation of key agricultural lands, open space, and community character, as important community objectives, residents participated in creating that vision because they, we, value the qualities that make caseville different from the surrounding communities.

[20:33] Qualities that brought me to K'sville when I relocated here from Florida.

[20:39] This property thinks the Susie and what she created truly embodies most of these qualities.

[20:45] For years, it's function as an equestrian facility, home to close to 100 horses, and

[20:50] represented the agriculture heritage that K'sville has historically sought to preserve.

[20:55] This land brought together a herd of humans and horses, creating connections that extended

[21:00] far beyond writing.

[21:01] We brought our families together, my son, sitting there, starting writing a couple years ago.

[21:08] Children have been born and have come into the family, trainers, volunteers, and horse owners

[21:14] found that community, purpose, and belonging there.

[21:18] Once this property is resowned and developed, those agriculture and a question opportunities

[21:23] will be lost permanently.

[21:25] Furthermore, the choice is not between high-density housing and single-family housing.

[21:31] the choices between preserving agriculture and

[21:34] equestrian land or converting it to residential use.

[21:39] The density may have changed and may change a few more times before we're through this,

[21:44] but the permanent loss of the community remains the same.

[21:48] I'm particularly concerned that the argument may be brought forward for

[21:52] rezoning may rely at least in part on the claim that the

[21:56] equestrian operation is no longer active.

[21:58] However, a property's long-term land use should not be determined solely by whether the current owner chooses to continue operating a current business.

[22:07] As a ten-in of the Equestrian Center, I was given only 30 days notice to vacate, and the cessation of operations was therefore the result of a decision by the property owner rather than the lack of demand or viability for the Equestrian use.

[22:22] Earlier discussions regarding this property indicated that the equestrian operation was profitable and viable.

[22:29] If a profit...

[22:30] Agricals are a question and use facility is intentionally discontinued, and then cited as evidence that the property should be resowned, that creates a troubling precedent. It will encourage the deliberate abandonment of agriculture uses as a pathway to residential development.

[22:48] I know I'm on time, but I would ask the commission to deny this application and allow another buyer to take the rain.

[22:57] And I sincerely appreciate everything that you brought to this community and I hope we can keep it like it is.

[23:03] Thank you for the time.

[23:03] Thank you.

[23:12] Chairperson.

[23:12] As soon to be Chairperson.

[23:14] Vice Chair.

[23:15] John Adams.

[23:16] I live on Thoroughbred Drive.

[23:18] There's a lot of time back here.

[23:20] And maybe only have three seconds to let three minutes unless someone decides to yield their time to me.

[23:26] The question here is not about whether or not someone has been forced to run their property.

[23:32] we are not communists. We don't make people run a property. The question here is that this was

[23:41] part of a development agreement initially to allow for excess zoning. So initially when

[23:47] this came to council, the only reason that they were able to get the density within the neighborhood

[23:53] was by having this 19 acres that was set aside to be in a question center. And within the development

[24:01] agreement, it says that this 19 acres, which is actually a lot, it is LOT, a lot within the

[24:09] HOA, and is listed as for the benefit and pleasure of the Sun's set of questionist states.

[24:17] It also states within there that it doesn't have to be run by the HOA that it could

[24:23] be run by someone privately, and that that person would run it, but that it would remain

[24:28] that use. Now when the developer went bankrupt and they had to sell it, the folks

[24:36] that bought it for close to $380,000. $380,000, $19,000 with water rights, knew what

[24:45] they were buying. They were buying a piece of property that was designated, designated

[24:52] within a development agreement to be open space and they've sold 10 of those

[24:57] to symphony homes, which is bold in a lot of ways because now symphonies under the same

[25:04] obligation with that nineteen acres as they are with their nine. And if they can't run

[25:10] the system because they sold that ten acres then that was their choice. But I say to you

[25:16] the biggest question here is how can you reason a piece of property that is within a development

[25:23] agreement right now stated to be an equestrian center. I do not ask you to force someone

[25:31] to continue to run a business. If Susie would like to not run the business anymore and let

[25:38] it just sit there, that's fine. But you can't change what was stated that it was to be a development

[25:45] agreement. And there is so much here to unpack. I mean they came eight years ago to try and do this

[25:52] And I'm shocked that staff is recommending approval because right now there is a development agreement that states this is to be an equestrian center for the benefit and pleasure of the Sunset equestrian state.

[26:07] And I ask that you deny this.

[26:11] Thank you.

[26:24] I'm trying not to repeat some of the things that John said.

[26:27] My name is Tina Err.

[26:28] I sleep in Bound of Full City, but I am here almost every day in case Full City.

[26:34] My horse is boarded at Sunset of Question and Center, and I'm here today on behalf of myself

[26:38] and the more than 50 other families who board at and love the Question and Center.

[26:43] I'm here to respectfully ask you to maintain the Agricultural Zoning of Sunset of Question and Center

[26:48] and reject any proposal to resume this property for high-density housing or anything other than what it was originally contracted to be.

[26:56] What was it originally contracted to be in a question center?

[27:00] Parcel A is to be used for open space associated with caseville sunset

[27:04] equestrian state's development. It may be sold to a private

[27:07] concierge who will construct and operate the equestrian facility.

[27:11] The D-Convane parcel A shall place constraints on the parcel

[27:14] to assure it remains viable open space for the development.

[27:18] The plat is clear. Any development that changes these requirements

[27:22] violates these explicit restrictions, homeowners in the development have relied on these requirements

[27:29] when they purchased their homes. It was a selling point by the developers. The streets all have a

[27:35] question names and there are questions specific trails running all throughout the neighborhoods.

[27:40] We've heard of one individual who has relocated this evening because of this Equestrian Center

[27:44] and I know of another one who came from out of state specifically moving into the sunset, a question

[27:50] states because of the Equestrian facility. I can only imagine the heartbreak that they're

[27:54] having when they heard that it was closing on June 1st. The Landworth Sunset Equestrian

[28:00] States is located was purchased at a deeply discounted rate because of their requirements

[28:04] for it to be an Equestrian Center. I feel it is morally and ethically atrocious to try and sell

[28:11] the property in a matter other than what it was legally allowed to be. There's only one person

[28:16] that would benefit from this property rezone.

[28:19] The homeowners in the neighborhood would suffer.

[28:22] The equestrian community would suffer.

[28:24] Those whose livelihoods depend upon the facility,

[28:27] the facility would suffer.

[28:29] And I strongly believe that K'sville City would suffer as well.

[28:33] Some may talk about the equestrian center

[28:34] like it's just some remote piece of land

[28:36] out in the middle of nowhere that is not having any use.

[28:40] And the reality is that some set of equestrian center

[28:42] is more than just a horse facility.

[28:43] It is a community asset that supports local families, small businesses, youth programs, recreation and the Western heritage that helps make a case bill unique.

[28:55] Getting low on time, so I want to get to what I felt was more important.

[28:59] There may be talks circulating that the business is floundering and that interest in horse ownership or equine activities are diminishing.

[29:06] Those assumptions couldn't be anything further from the truth.

[29:10] There's been a nearly constant waiting list of parents wanting to enroll their children

[29:13] in horseback writing lessons and not too long ago, there was a wait list to even get your horse

[29:18] into the boarding facility. For years, the question and properties have been under attack

[29:22] by the rapid development spread in across the state.

[29:27] I respectfully urge you to please

[29:28] protect Sensa Equestrian Center for this generation and the future wants to come. Thank you.

[29:33] Thank you.

[29:46] To what they have said, Kim Johnson, Kaysville Resident, I am not a member of the Sunset

[29:54] to question neighborhood and having it nearly in our backyard.

[30:00] Is what attracted us to case bill? We have three horses. And we have had the pleasure of utilizing sunset, equestrian for a lot of the activities we participated in Susie's 4-H.

[30:16] Program, my daughter has been able to take lessons there from instructors that, otherwise,

[30:22] we would be traveling to Alden to Sandy to be able to do.

[30:31] We have an opportunity here as K'sville, as you say in your general plan, number six, to preserve

[30:40] the character of our city.

[30:43] And to me, especially as a resident of the west side of K'sville, this embodies what that means,

[30:49] this equestrian facility embodies that. And as others have so eloquently said,

[30:56] we will not be able to get it back. Just building now a type of facility like this is a tremendous

[31:04] cost you cannot recreate what we have there, not just the land, the facility itself. And I am sure

[31:11] that we could find another willing to run it if we are given a chance as a horse community.

[31:19] So I also urge you to vote no on this reason.

[31:23] Thank you

[31:38] Jason, I live in Mayor Circle.

[31:41] I think we were here several years ago having the same discussion and that got rejected and

[31:46] I believe more recently, Symphony had part of their plan was to develop the Equestrian

[31:53] Center to develop that land and they even presented and provided legal opinion from their

[32:01] council that there was a way to do that.

[32:05] I truly believe if that was true, they probably would have kept that land or found a way

[32:09] to make that work.

[32:11] I don't know if that's the intent, currently.

[32:14] I'm seeing that there's a potential option there or not, but clearly there was a declaration

[32:18] in the requirements for how it needed to be built and why it was there and why we need

[32:22] keep it. And if it truly was about case, we would imagine simply would be here having this

[32:29] good discussion, or would have presented it sooner instead of giving up on that property.

[32:34] So that's not the case, but either way, it's part of our community. It's there. We all

[32:40] want into it. We all agree to it. We all understood that it was going to stay in remain. And

[32:45] if it doesn't, then that would put the rest of our community out of zoning compliance with

[32:51] what was required for that subdivision.

[32:54] So is that a place that we want to go to

[32:56] reason the whole community now?

[32:58] Because of the plan being given up seems a bit

[33:00] at reaches, especially for those of us

[33:03] that have lived there for 10 plus years.

[33:06] And have been there from the beginning

[33:07] and have enjoyed that whole space.

[33:10] So I appreciate your time and just consider that as we go forward.

[33:15] Thank you.

[33:27] Hello.

[33:28] My name is Judge Stanger.

[33:29] I live in the Sunside Equestrian State.

[33:33] I have a number of concerns with the high density of R16s zoning, but that's to my point.

[33:42] I thought that's irrelevant because, as has been spoken, there's a number of items that are at issue here.

[33:49] I've been through the development agreement, the CC&Rs looked at the recorded plat,

[33:54] and this property is part of the sense that a question is the state's development.

[33:59] It's clear. So there are issues with that. There are the CCNRs say the arena property shall at all times be owned and used in a manner consistent with the obligations imposed by the development agreement.

[34:13] I know that it's not your job to uphold CCNRs. That's an HOA issue, but that's right there.

[34:23] In the development agreement you can find wording on what that parcel is to be used for.

[34:28] on the plat, as was read earlier, it says that this parcel is to be used for open space

[34:35] as associated with this case-built sense that a question in a state's development, but may be

[34:40] sold to a private concessionaire who will construct and operate the Equestrian facility.

[34:46] The deed conveying parcel A shall remain or shall place constraints on the parcel to assure

[34:51] it remains viable open space for this development. These are all recorded documents with the

[34:56] County, public record. On the deed, it was given, it was a special warranty deed that

[35:04] conveyed the property to them to the current owner. And on that deed it says subject

[35:08] to easements, restrictions and rights of way appearing of record. Pointing back to these

[35:13] recorded documents. So in my view, there's no reason to rezone a property when it's designated

[35:21] it to be viable open space for the development.

[35:23] There's no need to pursue it any further.

[35:26] It's already been pursued.

[35:28] It's open space for this other subdivision.

[35:32] I don't know how you'd be able to then take it out

[35:35] of this other subdivision, the other set of CCNRs,

[35:38] the other set of this other platform,

[35:40] and all that, and change that from its designated use.

[35:44] So I ask that you deny the reason.

[35:46] Thank you.

[35:48] Thank you.

[35:58] Anyone else?

[35:59] Hi,

[36:11] my name is Elizabeth White, I live on Thurber Drive, close to the question center.

[36:18] Keyesville has always been known as a beautiful community.

[36:21] We love Keyesville.

[36:23] We came to Keyesville because of its atmosphere.

[36:26] It used to, of course, been all agriculture.

[36:28] In our little area is one of that last pocket of agriculture.

[36:32] It's the last bit, and it's beautiful.

[36:35] We bought our home there because of the Christchurch Center.

[36:41] While I am not tied to the Christchurch Center, we enjoyed every day.

[36:46] We walk the paths, we enjoy the streets, we love seeing the horses.

[36:51] The atmosphere is one of peace, tranquility, and that's why we bought it.

[36:57] We had the highway come in, that destroyed some of it, but we're good.

[37:01] If we were to have the high-density building, there would be so many troubles, I want to first echo everyone who was said something before, but since I'm not a tight equestrian center personally, other than enjoying it immensely, I would like to bring up the concerns that comes to my mind.

[37:20] One, there are no traffic outlets.

[37:25] It would be substantial building to get to accommodate.

[37:30] That much traffic. I know there are plans for it, but just envision my backyard. There's now a highway there. And then there's a bike path. Then they're going to put angel street on that path too. So now you have a busy street, a bike path, a busy street and then a walk path. That destroys all of the beauty that's there.

[37:54] I also have concerns, you have the traffic issues, which is going to cost a lot of money for

[38:00] K'sville.

[38:02] You also have the problem of emergency services.

[38:05] How are we going to accommodate that many people in that area when we're already kind of

[38:12] at max?

[38:13] Talk about water.

[38:15] We already have water issues.

[38:17] How are we going to accommodate that many new houses and the water needs?

[38:22] How about schools, our schools are at capacity?

[38:26] What are we going to do for those children?

[38:28] Especially when we have a lot of high density housing,

[38:32] just down the street and shepherd that's going up

[38:35] and more coming over in station park.

[38:39] I just urge you to deny this request.

[38:43] It will, sorry, it will affect so many people

[38:48] who deliberately chose their homes

[38:50] because of Questrean Center and because of the beautiful atmosphere and the last pocket of agriculture

[38:58] in caseville City. Let's preserve that. Thank you. Thank you.

[39:09] My name is Lauren Starkey. I live in caseville. I do not live in West caseville. I am speaking

[39:15] as a resident who came to four years ago and was reassured at this planning commission with

[39:24] of my neighbors, that when a development agreement was created, that it would be written in the

[39:31] county and preserved on the county record and that there was no doubt that it would be

[39:38] respected. I'm wondering if that's the case. And if this reason is go through what that

[39:47] means not just to the equestrian people that are around this area.

[39:52] but any citizen of case will, if we choose not to respect the development agreement.

[40:01] I also just would like to say that I appreciate the people that care about their,

[40:07] even if we do not live right next door to the beauty.

[40:13] It's nice to have it close and it is nice to have it peaceful and it's nice to have it tranquil.

[40:18] And we as a non-naborate to this community, I respectfully request that you deny the

[40:28] reason.

[40:28] Thank you.

[40:30] Thank you.

[40:38] Thank you.

[40:38] Joel Tippets live in Mayor Circle live there for 15 years now, love the community, love

[40:45] case bill, have enjoyed the open spaces around me, which seem to be doing doing more and

[40:53] or throughout our state and throughout, you know, the West is a whole and we do have a heritage

[41:00] in the west of the question and we fund a preserve that and with all the comments that have

[41:06] been made especially with the planning or the development agreement, you know, that should be

[41:14] upheld and that I think is your job to uphold those things and preserve them because it sets

[41:21] not a good precedent to make that void, so I strongly disagree with this proposal going

[41:28] through.

[41:28] Thank you for your time.

[41:30] Thank you.

[41:45] My name is Bridget Lane.

[41:46] I'm a terrible public speaker.

[41:48] My anxiety is high.

[41:49] I apologize.

[41:50] But I am a resident of Caseville City.

[41:53] I live across from the USU, the Davis Heritage Center.

[41:58] I'm a third generation Equestrian.

[42:01] Unfortunately, my family sold their property for to home development, and I cannot keep my horses on my property.

[42:08] My house has been in the family since the 1930s.

[42:12] We live up the old blood farmhouse.

[42:16] So, if property were available, we would just cherish it that much more.

[42:21] I own an equestrian business called rural Avenue.

[42:24] That is based in Kaysville, Utah.

[42:28] My clients are clients of sunset, a question, I deliver all over K-sville, I see that they live in nice homes, two apartments, you know, they need these facilities because not everyone that has horses has big homes, some of them do live in apartments, two afford places, we need boarding facilities, last year I was at a boarding facility, apologies.

[42:55] that closed. 13 horses had to be re-homed. It affected seven families. I tried to buy that property.

[43:04] I tried really hard to buy that property. I had investors. I did everything. I offered $10,000 more than symphony homes.

[43:12] I offered to buy it before symphony homes. The person would not sell to me. I tried to save it as agriculture.

[43:18] It is now owned by Symphony Helms and will be many, many homes.

[43:25] Please reconsider. You're going to affect my business. You're going to affect my employees.

[43:31] I have seven. Please reconsider what this could do to my business. To my hobbies.

[43:37] I have my horses in late to now. That's where I have to go. I have to drive to my horses every day.

[43:43] If you've done morning and night, I have red and it's sunset a question.

[43:48] It's a beautiful facility.

[43:49] It works well.

[43:51] I've tried to board there.

[43:52] I've talked to Susie.

[43:54] I tried to negotiate things even with my business in ways

[43:57] that we could benefit each other.

[43:59] So sorry.

[44:01] I hope that all makes sense.

[44:02] Thank you for your time.

[44:03] Thank you for considering.

[44:06] I'm listening to my words.

[44:08] Thank you.

[44:09] Thank you.

[44:23] Wayne Thurber, you heard from my wife a little bit earlier.

[44:26] We've actually owned horses for about 30 years.

[44:33] We got into the horse business if you will, because of our daughter.

[44:40] And so what I wanted to talk about is the relationship between the person on the horse and the horse.

[44:48] There's something unique in that relationship.

[44:52] that each horse has a different personality, each individual,

[44:56] has a different personality, and they learn to work together.

[45:00] It's something that you can't do when you are, like if you're young and you're on a video game all the time, you don't get the same kind of growth that comes from horseback riding and building that relationship.

[45:18] The life lessons that not only are daughter, but my wife and I learn through watching her

[45:34] and now watching her with her children and how those life lessons from the horse carry

[45:39] over to her family.

[45:40] It's invaluable.

[45:41] And I think if we lose that type of facility, that access to that type of activity for young

[45:52] people or anybody who's struggling with the way life is these days, it's a tragedy to

[45:59] lose that.

[46:01] So I would encourage you to make sure that we can keep a question in facilities specifically

[46:09] this one. I live on thoroughbred circle so we're really close to it. We ride, I ride my bike

[46:16] pass there on the bike path and see the young folds and all the animals in it. It's a great

[46:24] place. Thank you. Thank you.

[46:34] My name is Evelyn Johnson. I am a Kaysville resident and I have three horses

[46:40] like my mom said. We live pretty close to sunset. It's super nice. I can walk my horse

[46:48] do a little trail ride and walk around on the trails over there. It's really a beautiful place.

[46:53] And I've learned a lot there. I've been able to take lessons there and it's made a big impact

[46:56] on me. And I just urge you guys to support all the writers here that really care about their horses

[47:03] And vote no for a rezoning it, thank you.

[47:09] Thank you.

[47:17] Here in I do live in Sunset Equestrian and States.

[47:21] The reason that we've bought years and years ago is because of the horse facility and

[47:26] the trails and the full package.

[47:31] It is so unique.

[47:33] It would be truly losing a treasure.

[47:36] I also, I would love to owe my horse property.

[47:38] I do not, I have to board, and when these boarding facilities go away like everybody mentioned,

[47:44] it just, it just ruins things, and I really love this is part of K-SIL, and I'm not going

[47:54] to want to read this out. There are people that will come and buy that property and we'll

[47:58] keep it a question, and keep it open space. So please vote no one to reason. Keep the open space,

[48:06] keep K-sville for C. Thank you.

[48:09] Thank you.

[48:14] I wasn't planning on doing this. I'm my name's Danielle Butters. I live in Cenerville. I am

[48:19] Susie's daughter. So I have a little bit of unique perspective on all this and I would just say to everyone that has shared passion and just so dedicated to keeping this facility open.

[48:35] that no one in the whole world loves it, sorry, loves it more than my mom, and no one in

[48:46] the whole world has worked their entire life away to keep this place running more than

[48:52] my mom. The whole reason our family even got into horses was because I was a really anxious

[49:00] kid, really anxious, and my mom was trying to find a way to help me and got me into

[49:06] horse decorating lessons. And that was like a really long time ago because I'm old. And

[49:13] that just got our whole family into it, and my mom into it, and now 30, 30 years

[49:20] later, she owns this beautiful business and has sacrificed literally everything to

[49:26] manage it. And I would say the only difference between everyone up here who loves it, and

[49:32] still so strongly about it, the difference between all of them and her is that she has truly

[49:39] given her all to it physically, mentally, emotionally to keep this business running. And

[49:45] is the only person who knows what it actually takes. The numbers, the everything that it actually

[49:52] takes to keep it up and running. And I said to her the other day, they'll only

[49:57] people who are upset. When you set a boundary and people be get upset with you,

[50:04] it's the people who are benefiting from you not having that boundary. And I would

[50:07] argue that the reason everyone is so upset is because she has given her all to

[50:12] keep this place, the amazing beautiful place that it is, and that it's not

[50:22] And if this was a city funded facility, and the city was paying for it, that would be a different story.

[50:29] It was compared to a pickleball court or a park, but it's not.

[50:33] It's her livelihood, and it's been her livelihood for the last 15 years.

[50:38] So I would consider everyone here to think of this as a different place coming from her daughter who has watched her mom have sleepless nights.

[50:47] have countless meetings with investors met with literally like dozens of people to try to keep

[50:55] this running and not been able to find an option to do so.

[51:00] So I would like to ask you to please consider to reason.

[51:06] Thank you.

[51:19] at Steve, I'm a caseville resident, living in West Kaysville, and I have a horse that's been

[51:27] boarded at Sunset at Questran for the last couple years. It was given less than 30 days

[51:34] to get my horse out of Sunset at Questran. I think the key thing here is nobody's trying

[51:40] to tell someone they have to continue running a business, right? The big key is it was bought as

[51:48] question center, why does that have to be sold as something else? Right? I happen to know many

[51:55] people that would continue to run it and purchase it from the landowner as in a quest

[51:59] rain center. We don't just get to decide when we want to sell property that we get a

[52:05] result in it, right? There was reasons there were things put in the plan of the development

[52:13] CCNRs that say this is in the quest rain center. Again, nobody's saying hey you need to keep

[52:17] running this to keep our horse here, but just like any business, if you want to get out of

[52:23] the business, you can sell the business as what it is. I would strongly urge that we

[52:28] to deny this reason.

[52:30] As there's a lot of interest in keeping this, the way it is, even the ownership has to change. Thanks.

[52:38] Thank you.

[52:51] Anyone else?

[52:58] So I'm Megan, I live in Sonset, Western United States. I actually just lived there like three weeks ago.

[53:04] I was supposed to board my horse at Sonset.

[53:09] So I'm incredibly shocked and disappointed by the staff recommendations to prove it because it goes against

[53:17] All the legal concerns that were brought up earlier, and it also goes against all of the residents

[53:22] opinions about the boarding facility, but also, I just want to say, I specifically chose

[53:33] to live here in Keyesville, and potentially retire because of the sunset, a questioning

[53:39] boarding facility, and because of the character of Keyesville.

[53:42] I looked all over Salt Lake City for a horse community or a horse friendly at least community with amenities

[53:50] and I saw the maps that were listed on your website that had horse trails, all of the agricultural center had horse events

[54:00] so this was really just a perfect spot, so for goal number six that was listed,

[54:07] Preservedly established character of CASEville, I moved here specifically for the character of CASEville and this sense of community that had in his value of forcemanship and it wasn't just catered to more wealthy people that could own horses on their own property, but for everyone so they had a big boarding facility to allow those of us who couldn't afford to buy horse properties to actually still enjoy the horse culture, right?

[54:38] But I feel like if we sell that in Arizona as an R16, which crams in 66, single-family residents,

[54:49] it's not just, oh, we're going to split the parcels into one-acre homes to match the rest of the community.

[54:54] That's cramming in potentially hundreds of people in a corner of the 90-hurt lot.

[55:00] That doesn't match, and that actually undermines goal six.

[55:03] So I don't know who's submitted Objective 6.1,

[55:07] continue the established focus on single-family residents,

[55:10] but the goal is to character a case bill.

[55:14] And as we explore the community,

[55:16] I don't want my son and his children to read on a sign,

[55:21] just like a pioneer part, which is great,

[55:24] about the history, the area that,

[55:27] hey, this community used to have actual real horses on it.

[55:31] And did you know key facts in life that humans used to have a good relationship with horses and even kids used to ride horses?

[55:40] Remember, I'm trying to bad the digital age of AI jobs and iPads and everything.

[55:48] And developed that emotional intelligence for my son and our entire community.

[55:53] So we can't lose our value of horses in our relationship with them.

[55:59] So I beg you please deny this. Thank you.

[56:03] Thank you.

[56:10] Anyone else?

[56:17] Okay, we will go ahead and close the public hearing section.

[56:23] We usually at this point will allow the applicant if you would like to make any statements

[56:26] Answer any questions.

[56:28] We may have some questions for you now or later or whatever, but any statement you'd like to make at this point.

[56:33] And

[56:41] not having guys look at my back because I have lots of different here.

[56:51] This is not weird, I almost feel like I died.

[56:54] And there's a huge tribute to you because it is a beautiful facility.

[56:59] It's amazing.

[57:01] Yeah, there's a reason I'm just going to sound so horrible,

[57:04] but I really like the music.

[57:06] It's

[57:11] appreciate everything you said.

[57:14] But there's a whole flip side.

[57:16] Do I like it?

[57:17] I just hope you can hear me, I hope you can hear me, and not just look at my, and I hope you guys can hear me, or at least I can speak it, and thank you for being here.

[57:32] And

[57:37] when I'm trying to make a decision in life, it's really hard for me if I don't understand the why, why am I doing this, or what's the outcome going to be, but the why, so I would really like to communicate to you.

[57:51] The why I'm here and have applied for this is a me or rezoning

[57:59] Like Danielle said

[58:03] Since I was a little girl I had a horse and bountiful and I'd write up on the and get in trouble and take my horse and walk it over on someone's grass and asked you their phones

[58:11] I was lost

[58:12] So I get it I get the whole community when Danielle started taking lessons and started, you know, go to school and

[58:20] not come home with a headache or anything and watch her flourish. I agree with all of that I do

[58:29] horses are magical and there's no better way to teach kids

[58:34] adult

[58:36] relationships and

[58:37] experiences

[58:39] When I watched Danielle, I knew I my main calling in life. I was thought was being a mom and I did that and it was wonderful

[58:46] But watching Danielle take lessons. It was very clear to me on my second calling in life was

[58:51] and that was to help others have what I dreamed of that I never had and that set me towards

[59:00] starting a lesson program that I kept for 20 years being private one on one because it was the

[59:11] only way that these primary girl, primarily girls could actually learn the lesson on the horse,

[59:18] not just how to write a worse.

[59:20] It was very important to me.

[59:22] It's been said that I just abruptly

[59:25] closed my lesson program.

[59:28] And one thing that has been a little bit

[59:31] just concerning to me is that I have yet

[59:34] to hear somebody mention my business side of life.

[59:41] I hear the warm fuzzies.

[59:42] I heard the wonderful things.

[59:44] But there is a dark side dog, and it's called business.

[59:48] And in my lesson program, like I said, I was up to 45, 50 kids, students were never an issue.

[59:57] They were never an issue.

[59:58] I had lovely students and lovely parents.

[1:00:00] The issue was horses, their expenses, teachers, and the absolute gut wrenching cloud that I'm over me that I was going to be responsible for some little girl getting hurt.

[1:00:17] As the years were by, in the last three years I spent $20,000 trying to find more less

[1:00:22] than horses they don't exist.

[1:00:25] Just like these people are saying, the less than horses don't exist, I would buy a horse.

[1:00:30] It would be not sold to me truthfully, a week later it was bucking me off or it couldn't

[1:00:35] walk.

[1:00:36] I go out by another horse and I buy another horse and I just couldn't provide safe horses

[1:00:42] and I wouldn't do it.

[1:00:44] I would not continue my program knowing that there was going to be a horse out there that has potential to hurt a little girl.

[1:00:51] I wouldn't do it.

[1:00:53] Finally, it was impossible for me to keep going.

[1:00:56] Now, my Danielle says I've had multiple nights of crying.

[1:01:00] Some of those nights crying was thinking about those 50 little girls.

[1:01:04] That number one, we're not going to be able to sit on the back of horse.

[1:01:07] But number two, we're never going to understand the difference between aggression and passive

[1:01:13] It learned a sort of my whole program was developed on that premise, but I could not keep it going.

[1:01:20] I tried. I was a limping for the last year. It took me a lot of time to finally wait on the hammer

[1:01:26] and say I can't do this anymore. I want to switch over to the Equestrian Center. Yes, it is a beautiful,

[1:01:34] beautiful place. Yes, I have worked 12 hours a day, five to six days a week for years on

[1:01:44] and for 15 years, and I did it gladly, but I have to admit there were times that I got my car

[1:01:50] and said, I can't do this anymore, keep going, keep going, there is an end to the means, and I'm here,

[1:01:57] I'm here.

[1:02:01] Jeff and I bought the facility opening, hoping the whole dream was to build an affordable

[1:02:06] family, friendly, safe, happy, barn. And we did. Along with that, we made it beautiful.

[1:02:17] And that, that cost, it cost a lot. My business no matter if somebody wants to sit here and tell me that I'm

[1:02:25] affordable, I'd love to go sit in my office with them.

[1:02:29] I have never been able to take a salary.

[1:02:32] I do not qualify for self-security,

[1:02:35] because I've never been able to take a salary.

[1:02:37] We are not profitable.

[1:02:40] When we were profitable, when we had before COVID,

[1:02:43] actually, I don't know what happened,

[1:02:45] we actually had enough courses in the barn

[1:02:47] that I was rolling over money,

[1:02:49] but it was getting right back in, right back in,

[1:02:53] profitable business is not what a question centers are.

[1:02:59] We could even kind of, we're running along, so I'm not going to,

[1:03:02] but we could even touch on the base of when Farmington,

[1:03:05] and Davis County decided to close down the fairgrounds.

[1:03:10] In 2020, there were 4,000 petition signs to not close

[1:03:16] at the facility. Yet, the government leader said,

[1:03:19] And this is bleeding, that's for high.

[1:03:22] We are bleeding.

[1:03:23] I'm million dollars a year, and the interest is not here anymore, so we're going to

[1:03:28] recreate it.

[1:03:29] Now, I'm not saying they did the wrong thing.

[1:03:33] I'm just saying someone listed, listen, somebody looked at the numbers and someone acted.

[1:03:39] And I'm telling you, I've looked at the numbers.

[1:03:41] There have been, I don't know where these, I'm not meaning this, sarcastically.

[1:03:45] I truly don't know where these people are that have been giving me offers or will

[1:03:49] by the facility. I've talked to three business owners and they've asked me about my overhead

[1:03:57] of my profit and I've got an interest and when I know my numbers I know monthly what I

[1:04:04] bring in and I know what goes out and when I tell them they're like whoa yeah whoa and then

[1:04:09] they ask me about what might happen to my property with the frenade road and I tell them they're like whoa

[1:04:16] you know, this is not feasible. So those are the discussions I've had. I have not received

[1:04:24] one written offer to buy the facility, not one. So I don't know, I don't know what the

[1:04:35] laughter is because either there's another CZ but I don't have written offers. So I'm not sure

[1:04:42] where that's coming from, but I'll sum up here.

[1:04:49] I could say, I could say so much, but it's been going on.

[1:04:54] So please listen to my daughter when I say,

[1:04:57] I have left everything on the met.

[1:05:01] I did put a 30 day notice out.

[1:05:04] There's a reason why there's a 30 day

[1:05:06] that has nothing to do with making people's lives miserable.

[1:05:11] In the business world, I can't let out more than 30 days.

[1:05:14] I wouldn't survive it.

[1:05:16] 30 days, people say there's nowhere for these places to go,

[1:05:20] but there are barns just 10 minutes away.

[1:05:23] They're just not Susie's parents.

[1:05:27] So I'm here.

[1:05:30] I've gone through a lot of personal situations

[1:05:33] over the last year.

[1:05:35] I'm a single owner.

[1:05:37] I did give a 30 day notice.

[1:05:38] I am clothing down the facility.

[1:05:42] I have no wires.

[1:05:43] I have nothing left in it's not profitable.

[1:05:48] I've had to go get another job and that's okay.

[1:05:54] But I left it on, Matt, and I would ask you to please see me.

[1:05:59] I'm pleased to see the business side of this request from Senator.

[1:06:04] I grant me some reason.

[1:06:06] Thank you.

[1:06:08] Thank you.

[1:06:16] Let's see, I imagine maybe the next step is getting into

[1:06:20] Some of the legal issues, we have one of our legal representatives here from the CDN,

[1:06:24] I don't know if you have more insight, but I'm sure we have some questions there.

[1:06:31] I know we had an expert come in.

[1:06:33] This ten months ago was a planning commission meeting October, not October, August 28.

[1:06:40] And we could talk to that a little bit.

[1:06:42] But we recognize that there could be claims that are made regarding this application, and we just don't really know how a judge would rule.

[1:06:51] City attorneys are generalists and not specialists, so we did ask a loud new specialist to look at all the documents.

[1:06:58] And it was his opinion that there's no legally binding requirement that it remain in a classroom and center.

[1:07:04] So that's what we've been going off of, but again, we don't know for sure how a judge would rule on that.

[1:07:12] If I can, Mr. Chair, I just, I've pulled up that from the minutes because I was curious about that as well, figuring that the legal issue was obviously going to be one here.

[1:07:24] What is said in the minutes was Mr. Bateman explained that it reviewed 13 documents including development agreements and amendments platform.

[1:07:30] Some multiple versions of the CC&Rs, noted that many of these documents contain statements of intent regarding the Equestrian

[1:07:37] Center's use and management, but those statements were often contradictory and more importantly, were never formalized into a binding legal action.

[1:07:47] For example, although some plats labeled the property as a Equestrian Center,

[1:07:51] Not included the statutory dedication language necessary to designate the area as common area or permanent open space.

[1:08:03] You know, I don't want to cast blame. I don't intend to cast blame, but what really sounds like to me was that at the time that the development was approved and generally have those various documents that are provided and recorded.

[1:08:17] And at least as far as the city was concerned, there was nothing that was ever finally

[1:08:22] consummated or the language that was put there.

[1:08:26] I'm not really sure what the intent of the development agreement was if it didn't put

[1:08:30] this in statutory legal language, maybe somebody just missed the step or didn't do it properly

[1:08:36] or something, but the bottom line is that if something like this were to go to the courts

[1:08:41] right now, I think the courts would say, it's not legally binding.

[1:08:46] That isn't to say that wasn't the intent of the city but for a property owner, property owner would say there's no legal requirement here that I have to do this.

[1:08:58] And I just want to raise that and kind of clear that up because we've had plenty of statements here made tonight saying this is binding, this has to be a complied with.

[1:09:07] First of all, the city has no role in CCNRs.

[1:09:11] That's an agreement between the property owners

[1:09:16] and whatever an individual property owner

[1:09:18] within that subdivision or that area does.

[1:09:22] The other property owners can take legal action

[1:09:25] or take whatever actions that they may deem to enforce

[1:09:27] what they feel like are the CCNRs.

[1:09:29] But the city generally has no role in those CCNRs.

[1:09:34] And whatever may have been in the development agreement,

[1:09:36] this independent legal counsel says there was nothing legally binding there?

[1:09:42] Yeah, I also took a, I watched it twice just a few hours ago that his, his

[1:09:47] statements took some notes and also read the minutes.

[1:09:51] And I can concur that's what he, he did say, it's a privately owned piece of property that,

[1:09:57] is within the HOA, but it's not, not subject to the control of the citizens of the HOA,

[1:10:04] and it has no obligation to remain an equestrian center.

[1:10:10] And is that our understanding that,

[1:10:13] like I guess, I mean, people have talked about

[1:10:16] a development agreement, but if the development agreement

[1:10:18] does not have those statements,

[1:10:20] is that seems to be kind of the conclusion there.

[1:10:26] That is to say that the individual property owners,

[1:10:29] there couldn't take some action against the equestrian center

[1:10:32] to say, look, the HOA, the CCNR, say this, and therefore you're obligated to comply with this.

[1:10:39] But that would be a private action that wouldn't be something the city would be subject to or involved with.

[1:10:55] Mr. Chair, I have a couple of questions for the applicant.

[1:10:58] If, yeah, let's move in.

[1:10:59] That would be appropriate.

[1:11:02] Ms. Hanson, I'm just curious.

[1:11:05] So you're looking, obviously, with the Equestrian Center, as you have said,

[1:11:10] it's not financially viable, so you're looking at doing something else with the property.

[1:11:17] Generally, when we have people come in for reasons, they present a plan of what they

[1:11:21] intend to do with the property. Staff has said that there's no such plan. Have you got a

[1:11:27] concept? Have you got any ideas on what you intend to do with this property if the

[1:11:31] his own is a crew?

[1:11:33] I attend. I do in one step at a time here. I attend to have the

[1:11:40] rezoning done and then see which direction is going to be the best for me

[1:11:47] moving forward in my life and what's going on. I mean, that's

[1:11:52] barring that it becomes a homeless shelter.

[1:11:56] But no, I don't have any. I have nothing moving forward.

[1:12:00] other than obviously if I get zoning and a developer comes along and wants to develop a beautiful

[1:12:06] place and wants to buy my land, then that works. The thing is, is it right now where I'm sitting?

[1:12:20] I cannot be forced to run a business that's not profitable. So why did you, why are you choosing

[1:12:26] are one sixth zone, say some of the other zones, especially other zones that are in the area,

[1:12:31] existing.

[1:12:32] Well,

[1:12:37] I know that there, you need, you have to have room to negotiate, right?

[1:12:43] It's got to be a win-win for the city and for me.

[1:12:46] And I know there's a lot of flexibility there from the R6, although it happens to the A5,

[1:12:53] There's lots of win-win and all of that, but it's discussions to be had later.

[1:13:00] So I will tell you, I mean there's nothing that would prevent, there's nothing, this

[1:13:05] is a property owner cannot apply for a reason, just apply without any kind of a plan.

[1:13:13] And in fact, years ago, that is pretty typically what happened a lot of times is that a property

[1:13:19] owner would just apply for a reason with the understanding by the city and others that whatever

[1:13:24] was allowed in that zone could possibly happen on that property, but things have evolved over

[1:13:29] the years and now cities, this city and many other most other cities are reluctant to grant

[1:13:37] any kind of a reason without some kind of an indication of what the owner intends to do with

[1:13:42] property. And so, and generally, oftentimes now,

[1:13:47] Resonance come with a development agreement, saying,

[1:13:51] the city will reason it with an agreement that you're going to

[1:13:54] develop it in this way. And so, without that, I think you're,

[1:13:58] at least on my part, I'm going to be kind of reluctant to agree to a

[1:14:02] reason without seeing some kind of a proposal for development and

[1:14:05] something that the city can hang its hat on and do some kind of

[1:14:12] So I don't live here in K-Sville, but I am a mom and I've raised family in beautiful neighborhoods

[1:14:20] and I would have zero intention, zero, I don't know what it will look like, but I have

[1:14:25] zero intention on doing anything that I have not already done, and that is make whatever

[1:14:32] just I'm doing beautiful, I don't know how to do it any other way.

[1:14:44] That's all I've got, Mr. Chair.

[1:14:47] Yeah, we appreciate your answers.

[1:14:52] Yeah, I would echo his comments.

[1:14:57] Even if you were asking for, I think.

[1:15:00] A zone that had larger lots that are closer to the stuff around. We're still going to be very cautious, not having a zone, especially with some of the circumstances I think in this piece of property, the fact that it is down at the end of a neighborhood.

[1:15:18] And currently, the only access is all the way through the neighborhood.

[1:15:24] We all know that there's going to be some of that property that's going to end up being

[1:15:28] part of the Angel Street extension or impacted by it.

[1:15:32] And so that's an unknown.

[1:15:36] When I would second that, that's an unknown.

[1:15:41] And it does kind of sometimes put things a little bit backwards because you have to lay out

[1:15:46] capital sometimes to put that plan together, and you don't even know if it's going to be

[1:15:51] approved or not, and I get that that's very difficult to want to put an investment into

[1:15:59] that when there's that chance that it may not be approved.

[1:16:03] I guess I wanted something I wanted to say earlier, and I don't say this with aggression or anything,

[1:16:09] I just wanted to make sure that everyone in this room knows that I am not under contract with

[1:16:16] any individual or any developer.

[1:16:20] I have great relationships with the developers around me,

[1:16:23] but I am not under contract.

[1:16:26] And I'm not in negotiations with a developer

[1:16:30] or an individual person at this time.

[1:16:33] So I just want to make that clear.

[1:16:35] Yeah, I appreciate that.

[1:16:35] I think that's something we might have asked, yeah.

[1:16:40] Um, but, um, yeah, so I just, I guess expressing some of my, um, the cautiousness, you know,

[1:16:53] where we support the idea that this is your property and, um, property owners, you know,

[1:16:59] we're always trying to balance property owners being able to do what they want and the interests

[1:17:03] of the city and what comes with zoning.

[1:17:05] I think I might be out of my circle here.

[1:17:07] I think asking me these questions is like me asking you how to settle the course.

[1:17:12] It'd be okay if I asked Zach to come up.

[1:17:15] Well, you can, absolutely.

[1:17:16] And you don't have to answer any of these specifics.

[1:17:19] I'm more trying to express some of the...

[1:17:22] The reason we're going to...

[1:17:24] I might be a little cautious in recommending approval.

[1:17:30] You know, the fact that being at the end of the neighborhood,

[1:17:35] some of that kind of thing.

[1:17:36] So...

[1:17:36] Again, can I just have that for a second?

[1:17:38] Absolutely. And you may not have any answers right now, that's fine.

[1:17:44] My name is Zach Harmouth Landabies.

[1:17:46] I apologize for the dress.

[1:17:48] Susie asked me to come last a minute.

[1:17:50] And early on when we started this,

[1:17:52] I got a call, one of my other land owners runs across the ranch.

[1:17:55] And so we were trying to, and she said,

[1:17:57] Hey, my friend Susie's in trouble.

[1:17:59] I just watched some stuff that was in some of the public meetings.

[1:18:02] And she's worried, and she's got this.

[1:18:03] And I was like, okay, we'll let me look at it.

[1:18:05] And I did like a 30-minute review of going through the documents and I was like, man, this

[1:18:10] feels a little rough for, you know, a civilian that is in the real estate world to kind

[1:18:15] of have all these people kind of gunned for, and I would say, you know, kind of like making

[1:18:20] claims when, you know, and I was coming in late.

[1:18:23] And so I said, hey, so as you just make application, because there's going to be a meeting

[1:18:27] about the roadway that there's going to be a meeting about this, just make application for

[1:18:30] a zoning.

[1:18:31] And make something that's really friendly to the neighborhood that isn't like superdense,

[1:18:34] something that matches the general plan, and it was kind of done in like a

[1:18:40] two hour one that she did on her own, and it was great. And so I'm kind of

[1:18:44] coming in late, but I think the idea is, you know, you would hope to have a

[1:18:49] development agreement, you'd hope to have a plan, but I think Susie wanted to

[1:18:53] have her hands on this so that didn't spin out into something that wasn't

[1:18:56] something she'd approved of, right? And so I just volunteered to help, so to

[1:19:00] answer your question, you know, I think we would like to go through with

[1:19:03] reason. My guess is the city council will want to have a binding document that's going to

[1:19:08] address the other issues. And we were just kind of caught in the timeline. And there

[1:19:14] was multiple resolutions and it felt like it actually felt like the city was working against

[1:19:18] us from a quick review of all the documents and public notes and felt rough. And so I just

[1:19:23] kind of came in as a helper here. But do this on a consistent basis. That's helpful or not.

[1:19:30] So, I think we want to clarify on a few items and we've heard a lot of rumors and we've

[1:19:36] seen a lot of interesting comments and so the cleanup of all the details I think is the

[1:19:41] most important part.

[1:19:43] Thank you.

[1:19:52] I guess any other questions for our applicant?

[1:19:59] Thank you, Brad.

[1:20:00] I do.

[1:20:01] I have a question for you.

[1:20:03] Excuse me.

[1:20:05] If you were to receive funding, what would the decision be?

[1:20:09] Would you decide to move forward with the reason?

[1:20:12] Would you decide to keep the property maintained in the property?

[1:20:15] It's not that I didn't know it was you.

[1:20:17] It's not.

[1:20:19] And it's not a question that you have to ask or answer it.

[1:20:22] Yeah, I'll defer that one.

[1:20:25] Okay.

[1:20:25] Thank you.

[1:20:31] Okay.

[1:20:32] We'll let you sit down and...

[1:20:40] Thoughts?

[1:20:41] Other thoughts?

[1:20:42] Mr. Chair, on my part, as I kind of expressed in my questions and comments, I'm reluctant

[1:20:49] to recommend the reason, where I don't see a more definitive plan of what is proposed.

[1:20:57] That's pretty much what we get on most reasons now, and it's usually incorporated into

[1:21:03] a development agreement that accompanies the reason,

[1:21:07] and you're talking about an area here

[1:21:10] where there's fairly large lots, and the reason I'll ask is for our one six, which would

[1:21:20] It's a lot of that size, because I do think that you can make homes and lots of that size fit into a neighborhood or they can be accommodated, especially when they're not right in the middle of the neighborhood.

[1:21:32] This would be more on the fringe and a long road.

[1:21:36] But until and until and unless I see a plan, I'm reluctant to just grant a blanket reason without any further assurance.

[1:21:44] That's feeling.

[1:21:46] I would say, just a couple of comments,

[1:21:54] I understand, you know, kind of our legal standing what we feel is, you know, maybe not legally binding.

[1:22:03] I guess that doesn't necessarily mean that we can't, well, to rezone is still, you know, in our prerogative to make that decision.

[1:22:15] and it doesn't mean we couldn't, it just seems to me like there's an awful lot of people

[1:22:22] who understood that there is a development agreement, there's an awful lot of trust placed

[1:22:27] in this.

[1:22:30] I don't know, ambiguous development agreement that legally we're not bound to, but perhaps we might still choose to uphold, or at least, you know, preserve space for that to just remain.

[1:22:46] kind of blame on the critical of the thing and I understand what I understand that and I

[1:22:52] I've wrestled with that as well.

[1:22:53] There's a lot of people who've made financial and other life decisions based on this

[1:22:59] supposed development agreement that I think would be something to consider and I'd also

[1:23:07] consider, you know, I typically like to look for places for some density.

[1:23:15] I'm really not usually offended by pockets of density, but in this situation I think it would be kind of a loss to the city for a resource that is, you know, kind of going away that's maybe dying a little bit to preserve some pocket of that agriculture and a community.

[1:23:41] any time that something is, you know, really blessing and benefiting the community and coming

[1:23:47] together, I think that would give me pause to reason for that, respectfully, you know,

[1:23:56] see, you know, your need and consider that as well, but I would hope for another resource

[1:24:06] other than maybe the resone.

[1:24:15] We've had a lot of individuals come before this committee, right?

[1:24:20] We've had a lot of resones and a lot of applications come before this committee,

[1:24:23] and one of the things that we do look for is some sort of land development plan, right?

[1:24:28] And even with major land developers, right, big-name land developers have come before this committee

[1:24:32] that presented a plan.

[1:24:35] If that plan is not up to par, we've typically decided to go against that plan, right?

[1:24:40] So, for instance, if there's certain areas where you know are one-six is the designation for the zone,

[1:24:47] and the zone in that area, or the zone pertaining to that area, typically just isn't a match as somewhat interplicable, right?

[1:24:56] Like, when Elizabeth came to this podium and she talked about the schools, the water, the emergency services access, right?

[1:25:06] road issues, those are the same issues that we look at when we think about granting that zoning application.

[1:25:14] And so I'm more on the side of the commissioners here.

[1:25:18] If there's not a plan and place to kind of tell us what direction the property is going to go in,

[1:25:23] kind of lean in toward the other side.

[1:25:26] Now, I will say this from a business perspective that I'm really big on business.

[1:25:30] I also understand if the business is not doing well, right, and I hate to force your hand.

[1:25:37] I hate to do that.

[1:25:39] I just want to throw that out there.

[1:25:44] Chairman, maybe a couple of thoughts here.

[1:25:49] First, I understand challenges of business ownership.

[1:25:52] I get that.

[1:25:54] I also get the passion and the feel of the community and their attachment to the Equestrian Center.

[1:26:00] But for me, I view our job as, you know, we don't, we don't govern business, we govern

[1:26:06] land use.

[1:26:07] And for me, this is simply a, I have to separate the emotion from the land use questions.

[1:26:14] That's what we're here for.

[1:26:16] I think there's some ambiguity around the enforcement of the previous development agreement.

[1:26:23] It makes me a little uncomfortable.

[1:26:24] whether or not it's binding, I think that was the developers, the communities, the commissions,

[1:26:32] and the council's intent at the time of the development of Sunset Equestrian in the States,

[1:26:39] was to preserve that. You know, ideally as an equestrian center, but if not, at a minimum of open space.

[1:26:47] So for me that's kind of where I am, I never want to prescribe to a landowner how they can

[1:26:54] or cannot use their land, that's not largely what we do.

[1:26:59] If it was to come in for a reason, which I'm not saying I would necessarily support a level

[1:27:05] of density, I think the density needs to match what is already in the area.

[1:27:10] I always try to avoid, you know, spot zoning.

[1:27:15] We ask the applicant why, you know, you guys see us looking down at this drink.

[1:27:19] He's a paper, you're probably wondering what it is.

[1:27:22] This is all the zoning options for K'sville.

[1:27:25] Out of all these zoning options, R16 is probably in my personal opinion

[1:27:31] and inappropriate zoning request for this area.

[1:27:36] You know, if it's one acre lots, if it's half acre lots,

[1:27:39] to preserve the character and fill of the community,

[1:27:42] which I think is one of our most important

[1:27:45] and most challenging roles.

[1:27:48] This reason is far from that.

[1:28:03] Yeah, some of just, I'll repeat myself a little bit.

[1:28:09] I love the way K's will looks.

[1:28:12] I love the way K's will used to look.

[1:28:15] I know it's going to look different in the future.

[1:28:19] And I love that there are people who own horses here and there are properties that will stay as fields for at least the rest of my life.

[1:28:29] But I've also seen a lot of acres of that disappear.

[1:28:38] I feel like we the city does not have the right to deny two to force you to perform any kind of business to maintain a business.

[1:28:49] We had a grocery store here years ago, and when it left, we didn't say, well, it has to be a grocery

[1:28:55] store, because we wanted to be a grocery store, you know, it's capitalism, that the people

[1:28:59] who own the property said it's going to work better out as this.

[1:29:04] Now, that's just one example,

[1:29:08] but from my understanding, from Mr. Bateman's statements in August,

[1:29:15] If we were to go to court, but the city has no ability, and I also don't feel that we

[1:29:21] have the ability to keep it as, you have to be careful with some of the terms, you know,

[1:29:27] to say, open space, you know, what does that, what does that even mean?

[1:29:30] Because you get to a point where you say, all of the farms, all the fields are disappearing,

[1:29:35] so therefore we need to do something, and you're basically out of saying, the last person

[1:29:41] cash in loses. Everybody else made some money off of their fields and it became large neighborhoods and

[1:29:48] But you were you were last and so we want to feel that we need to keep one field so I'm sorry

[1:29:53] You can't sell this for what the market would would pay and

[1:29:59] That makes me

[1:30:00] Uncomfortable.

[1:30:04] We do look at things like emergency and water and schools and things like that. Schools in this side of K'sville are currently under, they're not full and they are declining in numbers right now. That's not a worry. Water is not a worry. The city always looks at that kind of stuff. Those are not going into my thoughts here and making the decision.

[1:30:33] The concerns I have are, you know, those same issues, the fact that it has right now only one entrance to this piece of property, and it's at the bottom of a large neighborhood.

[1:30:47] The fact that some of it's going to change as a road is built, that nearby properties are going to also be developed soon, and not having a plan to put together.

[1:30:59] And so the density, yeah, it's different than the area around it.

[1:31:06] You can have different densities next to each other.

[1:31:09] My example for that would be everywhere,

[1:31:12] because everywhere has an edge and changes.

[1:31:18] We have R16 in the city.

[1:31:21] It's not a ghetto, but it's also among the more dense areas

[1:31:27] of our city.

[1:31:32] I don't feel it inappropriate to be in the city, but without knowing details and

[1:31:35] having a plan, I wouldn't just kind of blank it, resell in an area to be that, especially

[1:31:42] with those other circumstances.

[1:31:45] So, despite the fact that it's still, you know, single-family

[1:31:48] dwelling, which is what the general plan calls for. I'm also would be very reluctant to

[1:31:59] I

[1:32:02] just have a comment, I just want to recognize what a wonderful contribution you have done to this community.

[1:32:10] There wouldn't be here for this if you hadn't done this.

[1:32:16] So thank you for your contribution on that.

[1:32:20] And I recognize you are struggle on this as well.

[1:32:25] personally, physically, financially, so I appreciate everything that you have done on this.

[1:32:31] It is a bit of a jump to go right to the

[1:32:34] reason without considering some other things, and it's hard as that is for me to say,

[1:32:41] because I fill in it.

[1:32:44] I'm still on the same opinion as the council.

[1:32:49] Thank you for everything.

[1:32:56] Ready for motion?

[1:33:00] Okay. I think we've probably heard everyone's comments and

[1:33:03] So, all right, on item four public hearing, for a reason request for property at 820 Mayor's circle, I recommend, I'm motion that we make a recommendation to the City Council to deny the reason.

[1:33:21] Do we have a second?

[1:33:24] Any discussion on the motion?

[1:33:28] Okay, we will start building with Commissioner Moore.

[1:33:31] So I'm voting for the denial.

[1:33:34] Is that correct? Yes.

[1:33:35] Aye.

[1:33:37] Aye.

[1:33:38] Aye.

[1:33:39] Aye.

[1:33:39] I, and I'd like to explain my vote, I feel like that this is a pretty dramatic change from the existing zoning in the area, and thus I'm somewhat reluctant to consider it, but I would be, you know, I could be persuaded, given a plan, but there is no plan. So therefore, I am in support of a motion to deny.

[1:34:07] All right, that motion passes.

[1:34:10] This will go forward to the city council.

[1:34:14] It always gets a little tricky in July with holidays and things like that.

[1:34:17] So I don't know exactly when it will hit that agenda.

[1:34:25] All right, we have an item or two to go if you're going to leave that is fine,

[1:34:29] but we ask the take any conversations you have out into the hall.

[1:34:32] Can I just make one quick comment?

[1:34:34] Just to remind everyone that we just made a recommendation.

[1:34:37] It's up to the city council. So if you feel passionate about this, I would encourage you to again visit that council meeting.

[1:34:44] Yeah.

[1:34:45] Excellent.

[1:34:46] That's great.

[1:34:51] Approval of minutes from the June 11th, 2026 Plenty Commission meeting.

[1:34:54] Can

[1:35:02] I make a motion?

[1:35:03] Yes, please.

[1:35:05] I recommend the motion to approve that.

[1:35:10] Okay. We have a motion to approve the minutes.

[1:35:13] Sorry, Ms. Not who made the motion?

[1:35:15] Do we

[1:35:21] have a second?

[1:35:26] All in favor?

[1:35:27] Aye.

[1:35:28] Any pose?

[1:35:30] Anyone abstaining?

[1:35:33] Okay.

[1:35:35] Other matters.

[1:35:38] Not a whole lot to report.

[1:35:40] We did get a reason.

[1:35:41] We zone application just last week from simply homes.

[1:35:47] to reason that Eastern side of 550 to R1-14,

[1:35:54] so at this point that it's looking like that might go into lie, but it's dependent on a couple of other things we're trying to get this small area of plan.

[1:36:02] Back to council.

[1:36:05] But I would look for that in the next, probably if not July, then definitely August, and other than that,

[1:36:15] But I think that's all I had to report on necessarily, I think.

[1:36:23] Well, you've been working on the detached 80 ordinance.

[1:36:27] So hopefully, maybe we can bring that to the plank mission.

[1:36:31] Yeah, I should have, I'd start at work on it.

[1:36:34] I've since the city's short-handed now.

[1:36:38] I talked with Jason and I volunteered my service to try to get that done,

[1:36:43] because it might stay code to has to be done by October 1st.

[1:36:47] So I have volunteered and I'm working with it.

[1:36:49] And I should have something within the next week or so to begin looking over and reviewing.

[1:36:56] Thank you.

[1:36:56] Yeah, I great to have that skill.

[1:36:58] The best I could volunteer for the city is maybe to have no their lawn or something, something.

[1:37:06] Yeah, I don't think I have any else really to report on this.

[1:37:10] Just been holding the fort down.

[1:37:12] And doing a great job.

[1:37:13] How band?

[1:37:14] Yeah.

[1:37:15] Thank you.

[1:37:19] Alright.

[1:37:21] Seeing that we have nothing left.

[1:37:23] Next commission meeting.

[1:37:25] There we are.

[1:37:25] I think it's July 9th.

[1:37:29] What was that?

[1:37:31] Yeah. As of right now, I do not entirely sure it's possible to have this opening reason on, but I don't know. It depends on the color things.

[1:37:42] Fair enough.

[1:37:47] All right.

[1:37:48] So moved.

[1:37:51] And thank you to Aries.

[1:37:53] Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[1:37:54] Oh, thank you.

[1:37:54] Farewell to her.

[1:37:55] Thank you.

[1:37:57] Wonderful.

[1:37:58] Thank you.

[1:37:59] I still don't forget us.

[1:38:01] I don't know how to do it.

[1:38:05] You are not a serious body.

Planning Commission Meeting

Agenda

Transcript