[0:16] 601 having arrived. I call to order this regular meeting of the municipal services facilities and infrastructure committee.

[0:24] Meeting is being broadcast live on the city of King YouTube channel in Channel 1302. The video is also streamed on the city website and is posted on the website by the end of the next business day, borrowing any technical difficulties.

[0:37] The copies of the printed agenda are available in the wall pockets as you enter the room.

[0:44] The public and other city councilors will be recognized to ask questions and make comments on the agenda item under discussion.

[0:51] After being recognized, all remarks are to be made through the chair.

[0:55] I will not recognize an individual a second time until everyone has had an opportunity to speak.

[1:01] Those who wish to address the committee are asked to go to one of the microphones in the room.

[1:05] I identify yourself by name and address prior to speaking.

[1:09] Written comments from the public are accepted at the

[1:11] Clurps Office until Tuesday 1 p.m.

[1:15] There's a minute taker who is participating remotely this evening.

[1:19] Many members, Chair, remember to turn your microphone on prior to speaking.

[1:25] If the minute taker is unable to hear someone who will ask you to speak louder or turn your microphone on.

[1:30] I now call toward this regular meeting of the MSFI Committee and declare that we have

[1:36] a quorum present, Council Roberts is not with us, but we do have a quorum.

[1:42] One other minor issue this evening for the discussion on item five, the homelessness

[1:52] discussion.

[1:54] It will be recognizing the city manager first for comments, and then I'll open the meeting

[1:58] for comments from the audience in the room.

[2:01] Public comments for this portion of the discussion will be limited to three minutes.

[2:07] Council workmen is our timekeeper.

[2:11] I will encourage you not to repeat comments made previously and then to keep your recommendations

[2:17] within the line of scope of city government.

[2:20] The public will be recognized as questions.

[2:22] I may comments on the agenda item under discussion.

[2:25] And after being recognized all remarks, of course, are made through the chair, and I won't

[2:30] recognize the second time speaker until everyone else has had a chance to speak.

[2:36] For all that being said, first item on the agenda, we have an item memorandum of understanding

[2:42] with Keynes Day College, regarding locker rooms at the Icerina director, Rohan and.

[2:54] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee, Andy Bohinn, and Parks Recreation Facilities Director.

[3:00] So before you tonight, we had come back, well, we have previously come to you earlier this year,

[3:06] related to a discussion about keen state college and the expansion of the men's and women's ice hockey teams at keen ice.

[3:16] We have had some preliminary conversations and continue those conversations related to the ice time,

[3:22] related to the bill, what that's going to look like in now, where at a stage that we need

[3:28] to move forward and have agreements prepared between the two entities, so we that we can move

[3:38] forward and allow King State to create its bid processes, which would be followed in like

[3:44] manner of what the city does as well.

[3:47] So in order to do that, we need to have that revised motion that is before you tonight.

[3:53] Natalie Hodor is here with the college if you need her to expand on that, but this is

[3:59] the space that's underneath it keen ice, which I know you're familiar with.

[4:03] There's the bleachers and there's nothing under the bleachers. We're looking to expand that area

[4:08] and then go back into some of the storage space within the city building. So that's why it's

[4:17] of keen because entirely it's our building and so that's why we want to move forward.

[4:23] We will bring keen ice in related to that.

[4:26] One of the things that's important is with this motion it identifies, you know, just keen state

[4:35] is building this out at their expense and they have brought that forward to in the previous

[4:41] meeting but just wanted to reiterate that.

[4:44] I notice that this says Negotiate and Execute.

[4:50] I do trust the City Manager to Negotiate.

[4:52] I just want to make really clear to defend the position

[4:56] of keen high school, keen cobras, and all the other than keen state.

[5:03] Yes, we have thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[5:05] We have had conversations with keen high hockey,

[5:12] We've been in continuous conversations with Gary, who is the ranked services manager, who oversees all of the ranks for, including keen ice, just to be sure that ice time is, and we've identified for them, the practice time is during the week, which is like really a non-issue for any of the other groups, because they're taking ice time that

[5:39] It's not currently being used.

[5:41] Game times is going to be a work in progress.

[5:44] Year one will probably be a little bit of a struggle.

[5:47] It's trying to maneuver all of keen high

[5:50] and keen state and all of those.

[5:52] And then as it gets through that first year,

[5:55] year two, year three, year four,

[5:57] and through many years to come hopefully,

[6:00] it shouldn't be a problem at all.

[6:04] I hope so.

[6:05] Committee questions?

[6:06] I agree.

[6:07] And do you have the construction schedule?

[6:11] So as of right now, we're still in the process of identifying the agreements and finalizing

[6:19] those.

[6:20] Key and state colleges is putting together a bid package.

[6:23] Once we're able to get through this process to move forward, they're preparing the bid

[6:28] documents.

[6:28] We get those contracts executed.

[6:31] They'll go out the bid.

[6:32] And then we will have a timeline, they're going to start their hockey season, regardless of the locker rooms are done or not.

[6:44] So they'll find alternative ways to make sure that the teams have adequate space to do the things that they need.

[6:50] at Keyknice and then one of those rooms of built.

[6:54] So they're starting the season next this time next year

[6:58] in late October, November I think November 1st

[7:02] by NCAA is when games can begin.

[7:06] So there is that little bit of a process

[7:07] that's going to be some overlap, but this is a little bit

[7:12] of an accelerated timeline, but we're working towards

[7:17] making sure they can do the best we can.

[7:20] just follow up to that is it was brought to my attention that there might be some digging

[7:26] that might we have to be done through basically that the blast loss room is that correct?

[7:31] It's a possibility, I'm not going to say that it's a hundred percent, so there is basically

[7:37] two options that may need to happen.

[7:40] One we pump up an over the blast loss room or we go underneath the blast loss room.

[7:46] So those are still two things that we're looking at.

[7:51] And until we have an engineer on board in an architect,

[7:54] we're not going to be able to determine that just yet.

[7:57] The reason I was brought to my attention is

[7:58] to my attention because obviously that's a award polling place.

[8:02] And we have periodic elections coming up.

[8:05] And if we were going to be digging the floor,

[8:06] that could raise some problems with elections,

[8:08] where we might have to find an alternative spot.

[8:11] So that was my question for the schedule.

[8:13] Yes, that is correct. We are aware of the potential change in the state, how they

[8:23] may potentially do a election in either June or August, which then that particular one might

[8:31] be in a little bit of a conflict. And I know that our city clerk is working with the state and

[8:36] I am sure to clarify that and but that once we get into later October when we have our normal elections we should be okay.

[8:47] That shouldn't be a disruption.

[8:48] All right.

[8:49] Thank you.

[8:50] Any committee questions?

[8:53] Public.

[8:55] Seeing none.

[8:57] A motion please Councillor.

[9:00] Move that the municipal services facilities infrastructure committee recommend that the city manager be authorized to do all things necessary to negotiate.

[9:09] and execute a memorandum of understanding with Keyn State College to include a development agreement

[9:16] and lease for the purpose of the installation by Keyn State College at its cost and expense

[9:21] of locker rooms together with required utilities, including but not limited to water and waste

[9:26] services at the Keyn Ice location.

[9:28] Second motion has been made and seconded and I think from the public committee therefore all in favor

[9:45] Okay, sort of all unanimous

[9:50] Okay next item on the agenda. Thank you. Thank you director

[9:56] We have a communication from Stephen Braggden and we're going to say safety issues at 82

[10:02] Court Street.

[10:04] Would you like to address your letter, please?

[10:10] Yep.

[10:12] Stephen Bragg and I live at 51 Railroad Street.

[10:15] My office, along with my wife Cheryl Bellayers at 82 Court Street.

[10:19] We're asking the city to place two no parking signs.

[10:24] One to the south of our driveway, one to the north of our driveway,

[10:30] the south one is 22 feet, the north one we'd like to have at 30 feet.

[10:38] There's two signs there now, it's, I'm told by the city that they weren't authorized,

[10:45] and I'd say that pouring that cement in the middle of the winter was tough for me,

[10:49] was able to get them in. I was a joke, but I was wondering if I was wondering if I was wondering

[10:59] the point being that they're there. I'm not sure exactly how they got there, but they have

[11:08] served a purpose except that one on the north side is not far enough from the driveway. Since

[11:16] We've been since I've been at the office, which has been for a long time, parking in downtown

[11:21] Keene has really changed.

[11:25] The outside of the office for years never had a current front of it or very seldom had

[11:33] a current front of it.

[11:34] The parking meters I'm not sure when, but we're placed almost up to our driveway.

[11:42] I think it's in front of the senior citizen center.

[11:44] I think there is one if not in front of John Burke's office, which is just on the road, that's where they end.

[11:51] So people park in where the parking meters are and then they leave and so for long periods of time there's nobody parking there.

[11:59] to beginning at our drive way or just before you can park without paying for parking.

[12:08] And so, as time has gone on, that being the closest area to downtown on court street,

[12:14] people come and they park there early in the morning and they park very close together and they park

[12:21] you know, further north. The further away from downtown, the less parking there is. So,

[12:28] North of us, I don't think the issue is quite as great because it's further to walk for people

[12:34] to park south of us. It's not as great because it's parking meters. We've had in the last

[12:42] five years to accidents from people moving out of our driveway or driving out of the driveway.

[12:51] Not serious ones, but accidents that cause damages to two cars.

[13:00] When you pull out of our driveway and you look north,

[13:06] the ground slopes up so you can't

[13:09] see cars above the park cars.

[13:12] You have to look to see if they're far enough apart the cars coming down between

[13:20] the park cars, the space between the park cars.

[13:23] When you look south, it's a little easier because you're looking down and you can see the

[13:29] cars coming up further, you're looking at the cars on the other side of the road, so you

[13:33] got a better line of sight.

[13:39] I've seen the chart that the city's produced here.

[13:43] I mean, I might want to speak to it again after bullets.

[13:46] But first, we have a lot more people.

[13:49] Our building is different in the sense that we have a lot more people going in and out than the single family

[13:54] that are north of us.

[14:00] Which, and a lot of the single families, they leave in the morning to come back at night.

[14:05] There's not as anywhere near as much traffic going in and out.

[14:08] So we have a worse problem at our particular location.

[14:14] Further, I mean, I guess this shows that if they treated everybody on the street,

[14:21] the same as they treated us, then there would be 30 less parking areas, spaces.

[14:31] But I would contend that one, you're not going to treat everybody the same because everybody

[14:38] doesn't have the same problem. And two, the way to pick the fixed parking issue isn't

[14:46] to create spaces where accidents can occur or not solve the issues where accidents do occur.

[14:55] but to build a parking garage, maybe put in parking meters.

[15:00] There's other solutions. I don't think it's a fair argument that, well, I would say that I wouldn't

[15:08] want to argue that 30 parking spaces is worth a life or severe injury.

[15:20] So

[15:23] I think I request

[15:24] make sense. I think it makes sense for us. It makes sense for the public and it makes sense

[15:30] of the city and if you have any questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them.

[15:36] At this time, committee,

[15:39] city staff, thank you.

[15:45] Thank you Mr. Chair, don't lose your city engineer.

[15:48] Just a few comments for your consideration.

[15:52] This sort of came to a head with an item that was in front of this committee,

[15:57] about almost a year ago now on February of 23.

[16:02] We were here discussing a request for no parking area on in front of a specific property

[16:09] on Washington Street, and as part of that, the city council heard it from the public

[16:16] work's director and approved a policy where we would delineate individual parking stalls

[16:22] to try to make the on-street parking where it was applicable or more efficient and well-organized.

[16:28] And also try to, you know, keep people a little bit further back from, from driveway, entrances

[16:33] and whatnot to ease that situation.

[16:36] So we, we discussed that, we, you know, approve that policy back in February.

[16:42] That's fall we started implementing that.

[16:44] We've painted Washington Street, we're working our way up, courts Street.

[16:49] And when we got in front of the petitioners' addresses when they sort of realized,

[16:58] you

[16:58] has to hold off while this came to the council for consideration.

[17:05] So, just for your memory and sort of background, when this came up last year, last February,

[17:16] we mentioned that the areas that are applicable would include court straight up to school

[17:22] street on the west side, union straight on the east side.

[17:25] So, we were extending the areas with delineated parking from, I think, currently at ends

[17:31] around the mechanic street, up to those union and school.

[17:37] The Attorney-Bragon mentioned that there's a couple of no parking signs in front of that

[17:43] property today, and I certainly can't with a straight face tell you that they weren't installed

[17:50] by public works at some point in the past.

[17:52] They certainly look like all of our signs.

[17:55] What I can tell you is that they weren't codified in city code.

[18:02] So I don't know why they were put up.

[18:04] I can't answer that question, but they were put up and they're not enforceable,

[18:09] because they're not backed up by appropriate city ordinance.

[18:14] And when we met myself in the highway superintendent met with attorney

[18:19] And we discussed that, you know, that the science weren't valid and what we're trying to do with its policy.

[18:29] The other thing I mentioned to him and that I think, you know, that they're going to disagree with me on, but I'll explain anyway.

[18:38] I would love to be able to tell you that there's some unique circumstance at this driveway that represents a hardship on the petitioner.

[18:46] And that's why we should make this change to the city code.

[18:51] Unfortunately, I just, I can't find any unique characteristics of this driveway that makes

[18:56] it any different than any other driveway through this commercial mixed-use zone.

[19:03] The Attorney-Bragton mentioned the grade, and it does slope, as you go from north to south,

[19:09] it does slope down in elevation, but that slope is relatively constant. So it doesn't

[19:18] create any site line issues where a car is coming over a hill or this sort of thing.

[19:27] And because of that, I have a hard time recommending to this committee that we make a special

[19:32] one off no parking zone, but that's that's the situation before us. So just for, you know,

[19:42] sort of comparison purposes, my staff and I looked at the area that's applicable for parking

[19:49] stall delineation, this slide what you see is what's out there today if we were to implement

[19:56] that policy that we talked about in February. We think in the actually there's a typo in the

[20:02] memo on your packet, it says 68, there's actually 70 parking spaces that we would delineate

[20:08] today between court street and school street. And, you know, this, this, this next graphic

[20:15] assumes that we, we approve the petitioner's request for every driveway in the corridor, which

[20:23] is not what they're asking for, obviously. But just for comparison purposes, if, if ASF,

[20:30] You could advance the slide, please.

[20:38] Asa?

[20:41] She's running.

[20:42] So I must be able to advance the slide.

[20:46] She's down there.

[20:48] Oh, thank you.

[20:50] She's awesome.

[20:54] So this slide shows, if we were to apply the same 30 foot and 22 foot buffers on each side of

[21:00] every driveway through this corridor, it would reduce the total parking stalls of

[21:05] available to 49.

[21:07] So, 21 actually did not quite the 30 that it's early bragged and mentioned, but, you

[21:12] know, at a time when parking is at a premium in the downtown, it's not insignificant.

[21:18] So, it is something to consider.

[21:20] And with that, I'd be happy to step away or take your questions.

[21:24] Is this some standard that number that you mentioned, how many feet from the driveway?

[21:29] So what our code says today is that you're not allowed to park in front of or in close proximity to a private driveway.

[21:41] Now unfortunately our code doesn't define what close proximity is.

[21:45] For the purposes of this analysis and when we were planning these individual stalls, we used five feet.

[21:51] So five feet from the edge of the driveway back,

[21:55] would provide you with the same sort of turning radius, if you will, as what's allowed in the city code for a private driveway.

[22:03] So, a private driveway for residents is a maximum of 20 feet wide at the property line, but we allow it to flare out to 30 feet wide at the curb line.

[22:16] So, we figured, you know, that's a reasonable distance offset in order to allow people to turn in and out.

[22:21] Okay, what I'm wondering is, this no parking zone is flexible, we could change it.

[22:29] We could change it.

[22:31] And I'm wondering what the implications would be to the whole street if we were to increase

[22:36] it from the five feet, which I think is inadequate to a full 25 feet or what do you, then

[22:47] we would essentially get to what you see on the screen now here.

[22:51] but that you could go in your room between two.

[22:54] That's right.

[22:54] And perhaps they accomplish the same thing.

[22:56] That's correct.

[22:57] And I just looked at those two extremes.

[22:59] I don't know.

[23:00] That's analysis.

[23:01] That's 49 spaces includes 30 feet on the upstream side

[23:07] and 22 feet on the downstream side,

[23:09] which is what's included.

[23:11] But you could shrink it, too.

[23:12] Absolutely.

[23:13] Whatever you want to do.

[23:15] In work.

[23:15] For point of reference, we did look at

[23:18] when we were reviewing this code,

[23:20] some time ago. What that driveway buffer should be. Other towns and cities in New Hampshire have

[23:29] anything from the ones that have a distance have anywhere from two feet to five feet. It's sort

[23:36] of the range. A lot of municipalities don't have a specific distance that they divide. To me, this is all

[23:51] It's about safety, which is why this is here, which is why I'm trying to reach some kind of a solution to it.

[23:58] The other thought is it could be on a case by case, basis if property owner requested that there was a need,

[24:06] then that's different from, and that one who has an office versus one who has just a private residence.

[24:13] To be clear, that's what the applicant has requested, in this case, to put that into effect.

[24:21] The recommendation would be for the committee and the council to tell staff to come back with an ordinance to make that an effective prohibition.

[24:31] And they're the only ones that have asked at this point.

[24:34] We have to kind of make the assumption, though, that if this is allowed here, there's probably other businesses in the corridor that are going

[24:42] want a similar parking prohibition in front of their properties.

[24:46] Thank you.

[24:47] Thank you.

[24:47] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[24:48] Just again.

[24:49] The city industry was reminding you of the discussion back for 1991, Washington Street.

[24:55] Basically everything that this petitioner mentioned was mentioned at that particular.

[25:01] They had the same concerns.

[25:03] They had similar issues of sight distances, close calls, etc.

[25:09] I think as we're dealing with the urban environment and you're going to be and I guess I'm going to step back and also talk about a little bit about

[25:17] As you're encouraging in field development as you're encouraging mixed use you're going to see more and more of these types of conflicts

[25:26] That a more denser you get the more activity that that that's going to occur that's why you see as a city engineer mentioned

[25:35] and the distances really are about blocking

[25:39] things, anywhere from that, again, that two to five feet

[25:42] or in the descriptions that we typically have here

[25:45] about not impeding movement in and out.

[25:47] That's why they looked at that five feet.

[25:50] I think if you talk about it and see injury in any case,

[25:52] if you can imagine, basically a stall is 18 feet.

[25:55] So, again, if you were to say we're not going to do a stall

[25:57] on either side, that's basically for every driveway

[26:00] that would be two spaces.

[26:02] So, in this case, he says it's down to 49.

[26:04] Maybe you might be able to make it up to 50, but you're going to be basically cutting a third of the parking area

[26:10] That's available within the corridor and as you mentioned was we talked about that this corridor is is for your

[26:19] Court streets for your Washington streets for your in many ways your west streets your lower main street, et cetera

[26:24] where again you are the city

[26:27] Council is encouraging these mix uses and no loss of parking you had a very

[26:32] large discussion about no loss of parking recently through another process so safety is

[26:39] concerned certainly but just about speeds to hear the speeds are low so you're not

[26:45] you're not coming up 30 miles an hour if I'm 25 this is when the 25 is known so these

[26:49] are things to be keeping in the back your mind it would be difficult to say well decide what

[26:54] you want to do on each individual area because again I think most people want is much

[27:02] So, any of these are going to be back in front of you because they're not necessarily going to agree with staff because we're always going to be, no, that's not enough.

[27:10] That's nothing that we're using anymore.

[27:14] As far as what Councillor Greenwell mentioned on a case-by-case basis, I was going to ask that too, and as soon as he said that, I just saw the city attorney's head just been a few times.

[27:24] So I guess I want to refer to this back over the city attorney's side, a client's expression, on a legal standpoint, if we were to say, okay, we're just going to grant this exception and then we'll deal a little of somebody else asks down the road, is there a legal issue of be running into here?

[27:42] Yes, potentially.

[27:46] To do it sort of on a case-by-case basis, this is sort of arbitrary.

[27:50] There is something in the law called discretionary function immunity, where you, if you adopt

[27:56] a policy, if you have considered and reviewed and adopted a policy that's fairly consistent

[28:02] that is consistent within the city and situations like this, you get discretionary function immunity,

[28:11] which means that if there is an accident that occurs, you can point to that policy as sort of an exemption

[28:19] from the immunity that might apply.

[28:22] This comes out of an old case and not that old,

[28:24] a manchester, which was a similar situation

[28:27] where there was an accident involving a parking space

[28:32] and the claim, which is not necessarily up and down,

[28:35] he knows this case, and it was claimed

[28:38] that there was negligence by the city

[28:40] with respect to the placement of the parking space.

[28:42] And the courts concluded that because the parking

[28:46] was developed through a process that involved the, you know, the governing body and its agencies that, you know, they fell within that policy and there was discretionary function immunity.

[29:00] So, it I'm not suggesting to you, you should have shouldn't do anything with respect to this specific request.

[29:05] But what you, if you are going to do something with it, you should consider how it impacts the corridor and it should be consistent throughout the corridor.

[29:15] or throat corridors that are similar to the one that we're talking about now.

[29:21] That's sort of the point.

[29:23] So, I'd rather see something consistent rather than the idea that you would look at these on a case by case basis.

[29:31] Just to follow up on that.

[29:33] So, basically, you know, we've got current and then plan A.

[29:38] We sent it back to staff to come up with a plan B, C, and D.

[29:44] Somewhere between here and here, is that doable?

[29:49] I'll just wait for somebody to hear it.

[29:51] Well, I guess this is a problem with my work structure.

[29:54] I certainly could do doable.

[29:57] We can, as I always say, weaken in.

[30:00] Do you know anything? Just how much you want to pay for it?

[30:04] But we would also want to make sure that, again, when we come back, I get what are the parameters that we're talking about again, as you talk about safety. Again, we'll come back and say, as your professionals, we believe this is the safe way of doing this. And I said, we would go and look at what are other communities are doing, etc. So what I'm hearing and what the senior report to you is, hey, they're doing five feet, maybe seven feet.

[30:29] Right now that policy we develop based off the Washington Street issue is the see and you're mentioned we are going back

[30:35] Five feet on either side. I don't know if we're going to come back and say from our opinion you need to give more space

[30:41] I guess if you want more space we can do that and then tell you what necessarily the impacts are going to be so

[30:48] Yeah, we can come up with plans A, B, C, and D is just

[30:53] It's back to the city to see the attorney's point

[30:56] what are we justifying

[30:58] this particular distance, and then are we going to make sure that that distance, then remains going forward, that's the point.

[31:06] I get it. But there is a different situation with an office building with traffic versus a duplex with a medical traffic.

[31:14] Again, absolutely. And I think, as you heard with the city engineer was talking about when we developed that policy, we did parameter what the types of activities are.

[31:23] So in Washington Street, up by fuller school, you have basically a very similar functioning operation there,

[31:31] as the same as you have here. You have similar levels, volumes of traffic, up by that location as you do here.

[31:41] And why that standard on Washington Street in here has different numbers for

[31:47] do plus versus an office for residential is correct, I mean certainly there there can be

[31:55] different needs for different types of activities or functions or zoning. But remember again

[32:03] part of the challenge here is these are an area that are in transition. Today that area could be a

[32:10] single family, tomorrow it could be a multifamily in the day after that it could be a

[32:15] commercial building. That's what these buildings are today. At one time these were single family buildings, right. Today, they are now this.

[32:23] I don't want to just ship this off as informational, which is basically nothing's going to happen.

[32:30] Thinking probably more likely to send it back to staff for, do you want us to look at the policy?

[32:36] I mean I guess that's really the question is, do you want us to go back and look at the policy that was established?

[32:40] by the petitioner from 1951, Washington, sorry.

[32:45] Yeah, well, okay.

[32:46] Yeah, I'm not speaking for the committee,

[32:48] because committee hasn't spoken,

[32:49] but I think it would make sense that there are different situations

[32:52] that need different answers,

[32:56] and we're not getting them here,

[32:57] either.

[32:59] Nothing or grant this one situation.

[33:02] Well, I think the point is right now the next guy.

[33:04] Well, the answer that you came up with and you adopted

[33:08] for that facility on Washington Street.

[33:13] What I'm telling you is, that's the same function as this particular property is, too.

[33:19] So both these properties are a similar type of operation.

[33:23] They have multi-canoncent, they have, in this case, also a real estate,

[33:27] a miscontricular one, et cetera.

[33:29] It's very good.

[33:29] This is, again, an office complex, et cetera, very similar.

[33:32] So if we apply that to this request, what do we get?

[33:40] I'm sorry, I love a missed that question.

[33:42] If we apply the solution to Washington Street to the court street,

[33:48] what's the answer?

[33:50] 70 parking spaces and just Mr. Braggden situation, not the whole street.

[33:57] So what we laid out and we're starting to mark was the same criteria

[34:02] area that we use to mark out Washington Street in front of 1991 included.

[34:08] So that's the basically five feet and then all of the other prohibitions for crosswalks

[34:14] in hydrants and it would be five feet.

[34:18] Okay, I'll throw it to the committee.

[34:25] I'm informed on this by trying to pull out onto Washington Street most days and frequently.

[34:35] being, having my view blocked by a parked vehicle, a lot of times, you know, vehicles

[34:41] are a lot bigger than they used to be, taller, pick trucks, harder to see around, that

[34:46] should inform our parking decisions. I agree with Mitch that five feet is a little short,

[34:56] especially on a road that has this much traffic, as Washington Street does as well.

[35:02] So, I would say five feet is not enough, maybe 25 feet is too much.

[35:09] I would like to see nine feet, which would be half a parking space, and I think is, you know,

[35:14] maybe a reasonable number to target.

[35:19] Yeah.

[35:19] Just followed a question.

[35:20] I guess.

[35:22] I know.

[35:22] Good team.

[35:23] Yeah.

[35:23] Good team.

[35:28] But if I guess going back to you, we in the city attorney again, based on Mr.

[35:33] Braggon's request that, we're looking at a very busy business.

[35:37] And if we did grant that in front of the business, because it is a busy business and

[35:44] it is not a dueplexary of residential property, could we grant it just based on that?

[35:49] And if somebody with a residential home turns it into a business down the road, then they

[35:54] fall into the same jurisdiction.

[35:55] But until that point, businesses such as their lower office would have a different requirement and then say a duplex or a single family home, would we be with our legal, you know,

[36:08] I think that if you crafted that as a policy to, I'm going to have to think about it look at it, but I think if you crafted a policy that basically made distinctions between uses,

[36:21] I think you probably will be able to do that, but doing it tonight at Hock.

[36:27] No, I don't think we'll go on the fly.

[36:30] Because it comes to what I heard you say if we grant this, you know, is that okay?

[36:34] Not tonight.

[36:36] You know, I'd have to say we wouldn't have to work through that.

[36:39] But like I said, it doesn't tell you what you should do.

[36:44] It tells you the process in which you should do it.

[36:47] Right. So if we wanted to take a look at that, you know, then the question that court is raising is, you know, that gets codified somewhere. I'm not sure we have to put it in city code. We have to think about that a little bit.

[36:58] Yeah, our technical space. Yeah, yeah. Right. Right.

[37:01] That's right.

[37:02] So if it doesn't go in city code, then it's a little easier to, if as court has pointed out, there's a change in the use of a particular property, that could result in a change in the parking configuration in front of that property.

[37:14] Yeah, and the whole street can, because it's sort of like an accordion, but you'd have to be able, you need to

[37:20] modify it somehow, maybe? Yeah, councilor. Thank you. I have a question for the city engineer. Is there any

[37:32] other traffic mitigation tools that could be used to alleviate people coming in and out of

[37:44] that drive way so that they have more visibility for cars like, you know, the magnifier

[37:51] or something like that.

[37:53] The question we get quite a lot more than you imagine is folks ask us if we can put up like the magnifying mirrors.

[38:03] And what I tell them always is that magnifying mirror is not a recognized traffic control safety device.

[38:12] the city should not be installing those.

[38:16] That, you know, I think the city attorney's Pope

[38:21] time would start spinning if we were to suggest that.

[38:24] That said, I know that there are locations in the city

[38:27] where people have put them up, and I don't think we have a

[38:30] policy of proactively going and removing them.

[38:34] But that's not a, you know, an industry standard

[38:36] or recognized appropriate safety device.

[38:39] Sure, it's built around about.

[38:41] I'm on four board for it.

[38:44] Let's go.

[38:45] No, no, no, no more.

[38:46] Are there other type of tools that could be used other than that?

[38:51] So the public work director already mentioned that this is fairly low speed court

[38:57] or the times when we've done traffic and speed studies.

[39:03] The 85th percentile has been below the 30 mile per hour city wide zone.

[39:08] I think this is actually, it's 25 mile per hour zone.

[39:12] So that would be sort of like the first thing

[39:15] is by slowing cars down.

[39:18] You give more reaction time for people to see traffic

[39:22] entering the roadway and break appropriately.

[39:26] But in terms of improving visibility,

[39:29] not that I can think of, no.

[39:30] I'll have that one other question.

[39:33] It's my understanding for a lot on Elm Street is open to the public, correct for parking.

[39:40] It's not just a number of parking spaces there that are open to the public.

[39:46] It's not the entirety of the lot.

[39:49] Thank you.

[39:49] That's all I have.

[39:50] Yes, Chris.

[39:53] I think looking at the long range possibility,

[39:56] I think we may end up being creating a greater problem than we're solving a short term

[40:05] because if I have a business and then I go in and say okay I'm going to have

[40:12] possible business, pop, pop, pop, pop, housing and then I'm going to have housing

[40:18] and then we've created a road with no standard. So you may have a 10 foot gap here

[40:25] 24 get there and now I have housing and I turn it into, if I have four units, a housing

[40:32] like, for example, with use of one next to Franklin School, I decide I'm going to change

[40:38] that into four businesses, so more people are going to be parking along the road and then we're

[40:46] going back and forth. And now if I say I have business, I come in here and I say I have a business,

[40:52] I know I used to be housing, so now I need a wider gap, and so if we're going to solve

[41:01] this problem, I think we're going to have to use not something that's going to come back

[41:07] next month, we have to go and look at something that's not going to create a problem every six

[41:13] months, every year, because the usage of the facility can change, and so, and part of

[41:23] that, looking at that, if we're going to say, if this change is, what is the domino effect

[41:29] going down, and so, otherwise, if we don't come up with a process, every time there's a change

[41:38] going to be here. There needs to be a process that the whether we

[41:44] codify it or what. The city engineering, the public works in deal with

[41:50] without having to come to us all the time.

[41:54] For example, it says, yes, every year we're going to look at this before we

[42:01] repaint the lines. Not repaint in lines and then someone come in after

[42:07] We're doing the annual repayment of the lines and saying,

[42:11] no, this isn't going to work.

[42:13] So if I may Mr. Chair, to Councilor Roberts point,

[42:18] I would suggest if the council and the committee want to do something

[42:22] that's more context sensitive in terms of the standard.

[42:26] I would suggest that it be based more on the land use zone

[42:30] rather than individual business tenants or activities.

[42:34] Since that, you know, it's going to be more stable over time, it changes relatively slowly.

[42:40] What I'm hearing all over, as this discussion is rolling, pretty likely staff needs to do some work.

[42:47] Maybe bring it back to us at the next meeting. Yep, next. Manager.

[42:52] So I do believe we created a policy that was based on the zone and the uses and the zone.

[42:57] So we did do that.

[42:59] I believe we did bring it to the committee and you did decide on the five feet and we did paint the lines

[43:05] I think the the challenge is, you know, if we do make a change here

[43:11] I'm certain we'll have to also make a change on Washington Street because it's the same zone

[43:16] So it not only impacts this street it impacts that street. I

[43:20] would challenge

[43:21] out. Did you paint Washington Street? It's challenge. People to go out and see if the five feet

[43:28] works before we change it again and maybe you have Councillor Williams, you haven't.

[43:34] Well, I haven't. You haven't. I have checked it out and I'm not too happy with the around the

[43:38] University. Okay, around the Beaver Street but I would check it out and because we did just line

[43:44] at based on the policy you just adopted because quite honestly we will get requests from people

[43:50] because they are going to want more space and find their building and it's very difficult

[43:54] to change the policy based on individuals coming forward to a committee who may convince

[44:00] you to do something different and so it really should be based on the zone and what is safe

[44:07] and what makes sense and it should be applied consistently so that when and I don't like this

[44:12] then comes six months later you say we adopted a policy we implemented the policy we can review

[44:18] the policy in the future, but unless someone convinces us, this isn't working, you know,

[44:25] try hard not to do that.

[44:26] No, it sounds good.

[44:27] And also, I don't want to be wasting money on repaying the street repeatedly.

[44:33] I'm surprised that even was done because the last thing I heard was we didn't have the money

[44:36] for it.

[44:38] So I'm happy that it was.

[44:41] And as much as I hate more time, now that we've heard the story and we can go out and actually

[44:47] look at the road, I think that actually might be appropriate to bring it back next

[44:52] next meeting. What would you like to do between now and then? Again? What would you like us to do but

[44:58] I don't know, I don't know.

[44:59] I don't know.

[45:00] Okay. Okay. Just give us the opportunity.

[45:02] I believe me. Now that I heard what you've said, but he said, and what Mr. Braves said, and just see.

[45:10] Okay. That sounds good.

[45:11] It's funny. Yeah, just one more sort of cautionary note, you know, part of my role is the more cautious, I think.

[45:18] But it's important to remember that once you do this, and once we have a policy in place, and once it applies, it's very important not to change it every six months, every year.

[45:29] It's going to be there because otherwise you lose the protection, because it's not discretionary

[45:36] immunity anymore, it becomes just sort of ad hoc once again, so just to be clear about that.

[45:41] Well, personally I found this very informational on my part, just hearing what's our standard,

[45:48] what's this, and what Mr. Brideman saying, and what we've done, and I want to experience, I want to drive it.

[45:55] Yeah.

[45:56] And I also want to 50.

[45:58] Yeah.

[45:58] Just to say that I agree, we don't want to be changing the policy every six months, but

[46:03] we did just make a policy and I think it's okay to take a look at, is this policy doing

[46:08] what we want to do in the way we want to do it and make adjustments once or maybe twice

[46:13] and then let it go, but certainly not on a regular basis.

[46:18] Councillor Roberts.

[46:21] Since I don't know if this has ever happened before, but it has ever happened while

[46:25] been on it. People are talking about going out to look, shouldn't we as a committee go out

[46:32] and look because as a city council we would go out and look and whoever shows up gets

[46:37] right to vote and council Williams just mentioned some stuff and I have no idea what he's

[46:46] talking about and so I don't think we should be going all individually we should be going

[46:52] as a committee, so we all know what each person is talking about.

[46:57] You could do that.

[46:58] It would need to be publicly noticed.

[47:01] You know, beforehand is a meeting in the committee.

[47:03] It's like a site visit at that location.

[47:06] The public would ever write to attend and observe.

[47:10] You don't necessarily have to allow public comment during that period of time, but you might want to.

[47:15] But you could do that.

[47:17] personally I'm good with I just want to go on and there's nothing

[47:22] that we need to individually you can go out and take a look at it as

[47:29] no information answer if we were to put this on more time tonight is there any

[47:37] negative ramifications to that unless somebody gets hit by a car but no I

[47:49] anything from the public, committee. Councillor. I move to, oh, some understanding.

[48:02] Good evening. Cheryl Belair. My residence is 51-Row Road Street, and I am co-owner

[48:08] of the 82 Washington Court Street building with Stephen Braggdon. I did want to just clarify

[48:14] a couple of quick things. The first thing is we are here because we are very concerned about

[48:21] the safety, not just of people coming in and out of our driveway, but the hundreds and

[48:27] hundreds of cars coming south on court street. We've witnessed two accidents already, but I would say

[48:34] that just to be clear, public safety is truly the top of our priority. Let's right now,

[48:41] The newest spots that were painted that you were all just talking about, the new lines, actually moved.

[48:49] We moved, added a parking space on either side of our driveway.

[48:53] We have been asking the city for more than a year to actually move things back because of the safety issue

[48:59] and we now are in a situation where everything has moved close around both ends.

[49:05] So it was really a safety concern prior to this now.

[49:08] that's just inflated to be honest with you.

[49:11] There was mention of driving the area.

[49:14] I would challenge and invite anybody

[49:15] that wants to, during a business day, come into our driveway

[49:20] and then turn around and try to get out.

[49:22] I think it would be an eye-opening experience

[49:25] and hair raising for all of you to give that a shot.

[49:29] It's a scary situation up there.

[49:32] And lastly, I would say I do think that our building

[49:36] is in a bit of a different situation than those buildings north of us on court street.

[49:42] I think we are one of the last businesses in that corridor.

[49:48] I would say that the site is much more difficult.

[49:52] I feel the traffic, the speed picks up as they come down court street, and we do have a lot of

[49:59] traffic. It is different, as some of the counselors mentioned, it is different than a single

[50:05] family, or even a multi-family building, where people are leaving most times in the morning

[50:11] and coming home later in the day, we have people in and out of that building constantly.

[50:18] And there's also a lot of foot traffic, so it's not just the cars coming down, but then

[50:23] you're also, you also need to be careful of the foot traffic.

[50:26] And when you're really focused on, I don't want to get hit by another car, it does become

[50:31] a bit difficult.

[50:31] But I do feel that we are different.

[50:33] I feel that we are much closer to downtown and because we're a busy business, it increases

[50:40] the possibility of accidents.

[50:44] So that's all, and I thank you again.

[50:46] Thank you.

[50:47] Anything further, public committee?

[50:53] I moved to put this item on more time to our next meeting.

[50:57] Sorry.

[50:58] The motion has been seconded anything from the public, committee, all in favour?

[51:04] We are unanimous.

[51:08] Next time on item on our agenda before you get up, Andy.

[51:14] We are going to lose Councillor Workman early.

[51:18] She has a travel need.

[51:21] So, we are expecting a Robin Hood park.

[51:26] It's probably just a presentation, is that correct, without a likely vote?

[51:31] However, the next item is likely vote.

[51:36] So, unless there is objection, changing the order from item three to item four, in

[51:42] other words, bringing up the lower Winchester Street as the next item of discussion.

[51:47] Committee, are you okay with this?

[51:48] Understanding that I'd like to get Council workman in the vote.

[51:53] Okay. Good. That's a Shelby. And if she has to leave, we'll get fired. Yes,

[52:09] we're in

[52:09] just a street.

[52:14] Don. Thank you, Ms. Chair, don't lose your citizenship 20 minutes. Okay. We will

[52:19] talk fast or listen quick. So this is the second part of the lower Winchester Street discussion.

[52:26] We started this conversation back on September 27th.

[52:31] I'm going to start with just a very brief sort of summary of what we talked about last time.

[52:36] And then we'll sort of go over the essentially five questions or five elements of the project that the committee is going to need to consider and decide on.

[52:49] Thank you, Lisa.

[52:52] All right, so just refresh your memories.

[52:54] The lower Winchester Street Reconstruction Project is proposed to reconstruct the Winchester Street

[52:59] from the Route 101, we're going to go back all the way south to the town line.

[53:05] It actually will continue into Swansea, some distance.

[53:09] The Swansea Select Board has already reviewed and selected their proposed action.

[53:15] So what we're looking at tonight is just what we're going to build within the city limits.

[53:20] As part of the project, we are going to be replacing the Ashwamp Bridge, which has to

[53:26] bridge over Ashwamp. And that's going to be rolled into this project so that'll be very

[53:32] nice to happen. So in addition to sort of the committee recommendations, I will review here

[53:41] in a second,

[53:44] the committee asked us in September to kind of go back and answer or bring

[53:49] you answers to three questions. Specifically, you wanted to know what the implications and impact

[53:56] would be to folks turning left into and out of businesses if you were to impose a left turn

[54:03] restriction. You wanted to know a little bit more information about the crash history in

[54:08] over recent years and there was a resident or a business owner that attended the last meeting

[54:15] that specifically was concerned about deliveries into an out-of-the-brick-house

[54:22] tile facility, a tile store, I guess you would say.

[54:28] So we're going to answer those questions here.

[54:33] All right, so the, just for again, refresh your memory,

[54:38] the Mayor's ad hoc steering committee for the project,

[54:41] gave you a series of five recommendations.

[54:44] And those five recommendations sort of outlined what they recommended for each of the major

[54:50] elements of the project.

[54:52] You know, of course, this committee gets to deliberate and choose what to move forward

[54:58] to the city council.

[54:59] I will reiterate that those decisions on recommended elements were not unanimous at the

[55:08] steering committee level.

[55:09] So here's a sort of a summary of those recommendations.

[55:14] They found that you should provide two travel lanes in each direction

[55:17] between Cliff Road and Route 101.

[55:20] That would allow you to increase the capacity of the roadway,

[55:24] help address mitigation or congestion,

[55:28] and improve the efficiency of the roadway.

[55:31] They also suggested that you replace the current

[55:36] stop control is technically intersections at

[55:39] Cliff Road and Matthews Road with modern round

[55:44] abouts. And then finally the last three

[55:46] recommendations were related to the management

[55:49] of left turn and left turns in and out of

[55:51] businesses where identified pre-early on by

[55:54] folks that came to our meetings as really one of the

[55:58] biggest issues with this corridor. The steering committee

[56:02] recommended raised medians from Route 101 to Cliff Road from Cliff Road to Matthews, but for

[56:08] the last segment, the southernmost segment of the project, they recommend adding a dual-use

[56:14] center turn line, turn lane, rather than building a raised median in that section. And I will

[56:22] let Gene get into a little bit more details. Sure. So one of the questions, as Dawn referred, was,

[56:31] So what impacts to the traveling public would occur from these left-turn restrictions?

[56:37] So in those two segments, this being what we call the North segment from Cliff Road up to the existing

[56:45] roundabout at Route 101 that there would be that center island, which would not allow left

[56:52] turns from or onto Winchester Street.

[56:56] And there are a number of businesses, streets, driveways along this corridor.

[57:03] So what we did, I'm going to put my glasses on so I can read this.

[57:07] So we kind of looked at both directions, north-bound southbound of Winchester Street, looked

[57:12] at the streets, on those segments, and also the driveways.

[57:17] So fortunately for the streets, we had very good traffic data, so we could look at the

[57:22] volume at those streets and to determine how many vehicles are making those turns on a daily basis.

[57:30] And these are daily numbers.

[57:34] So, for that northbound there's only one street. It's actually

[57:39] one of the accesses to the dealership. And then in the southbound there are three streets.

[57:45] a kit, fair amount, and what were

[57:49] they're all streets that we had counts.

[57:52] So we knew very well how many trips were at those locations.

[57:57] And these are just the left turns that would be impacted,

[58:01] not the total volume, but just the left turns during a day

[58:05] that would be impacted in and out, right?

[58:09] So you have, obviously, there are vehicles turning left

[58:12] from Winchester Street onto these streets

[58:14] and into these dryways and vice versa leaving.

[58:18] So in the proposed action, they would only make a right turn.

[58:21] They would use the roundabout to turn around and switch directions

[58:25] if that was the direction they wanted to hit.

[58:28] Now, for the dryways, we did not have

[58:31] council all of these dryways.

[58:33] So we looked at the council that we did have at certain

[58:36] dryways, and we also looked at the land uses,

[58:39] and we looked at what we would normally do for

[58:42] generation for the type of business, and what types are, what number of trips are expected

[58:48] from those types of uses, and we developed the trips from that calculation. So you can

[58:55] see that, you know, there are certain, there are certain roadways, and there are certain

[59:01] driveways that do generate quite a bit of traffic in this corridor. Now for, for this Norse

[59:10] A lot of discussion about kitstreet, the problematic left turns, trying to come out of kitstreet to get into the existing roundabout.

[59:20] So a lot of that southbound streets, you see that 1240 number, the majority of those trips are the trips that are coming into an out of kitstreet that would now be traveling down to Griff,

[59:35] use the round about to, you know, switch direction and then head northbound on Winchester Street.

[59:42] So there's quite a few trips there. Now this is a daily number, so this would be spread out over the course of the day.

[59:50] But that's the calculation we did to give you a sense of, you know, how many of movements would be impacted by the median that has been proposed.

[1:00:01] So, the next slide is what we call that middle section, which is between the two proposed roundabouts, the one at Matthews, and the one at CRIF.

[1:00:11] There aren't as many accesses in this area. There's no streets on the northbound segment. There's only one southbound, but that's Brad Co., which also, as we've heard throughout the project, is a pretty significant issue.

[1:00:27] So there's a lot of trips coming in and out of there.

[1:00:31] There's also Hamshaw Lumber, which is also a very large contributor from the driveway

[1:00:37] perspective on that southbound travel.

[1:00:43] So you get a sense, there's fewer accesses at this location, and there's overall less traffic

[1:00:48] once you go south of Cliff Road.

[1:00:51] So that gives you a sense of, you know, how many trips would be impacted in the evaluation

[1:00:58] that we conducted for this corridor, all these trips were put in, and their direction

[1:01:05] was modified to show that if you were currently making a left turn, and in the pros you

[1:01:11] were making a right turn and using the roundabout, that was put into our traffic analysis,

[1:01:15] And the roundabouts have been designed to accommodate that volume of traffic.

[1:01:23] Sure.

[1:01:23] But there

[1:01:26] are any Winchester streets?

[1:01:37] There are going to hit streets.

[1:01:38] Oh, it's good.

[1:01:39] I'd now come back to you.

[1:01:40] I just wanted to get a general view of the crowd.

[1:01:45] And furthermore, there was a question from Brickhouse, Kyle,

[1:01:50] whether they can make these.

[1:01:55] That's coming up.

[1:01:56] That's coming up.

[1:01:56] We have a slide.

[1:01:57] I'm trying to shorten your presentation a bit,

[1:01:59] not to be over. I think we really only have two more, a couple more slides. That was kind

[1:02:04] of the bulk of the content. We're very close. Yes, Chair. I just want to get a vote before I

[1:02:10] lose my understanding. Understood. So the committee asked about crash data. We looked and worked

[1:02:16] with the keen PD to come up with some fresh data. This is the number of accidents reported through

[1:02:23] court or between September of 2019 and present. In all, there was 50 accidents reported through

[1:02:32] its court or you can see where those are located. A lot of them at CREF and a lot at Brad

[1:02:36] Co. Those are the two biggest, excuse me, kit street and Brad Co. They're two biggest,

[1:02:41] and then CREF is another large one, of course, busy roads. Now, in terms of severity,

[1:02:47] be luckily, none of them were fatal, but the KMPD records do show that 10 individuals were transported

[1:02:55] by ambulance as a result of those accidents, so injury producing accidents, and one individual

[1:03:01] was shown to be transported by air during that period of time, so pretty severe injury

[1:03:06] presumably. The KMPD records also show what contributing factors accompanied that, 18 of

[1:03:15] accidents involved a failure to yield the right of way, which I thought was very interesting

[1:03:20] because that is a contributing factor that roundabout will clearly and directly help address.

[1:03:30] You know, I wish that roundabouts could solve in the tent of driving. They can't. Following

[1:03:36] too close, probably not, but failure to yield the right of way is something that roundabouts

[1:03:41] actually can solve. So I found that hardening. And then finally, the truck turning movement,

[1:03:49] this graphic here on the left shows a tractor trailer making a delivery to the Brickhouse

[1:03:56] tile facility backing into and then leaving the facility. We confirmed with the facility

[1:04:03] owners at the last meeting that their deliveries are by tractor trailer and they do currently

[1:04:08] stop on when just a street and back into their facility so essentially if this is not changing

[1:04:13] that traffic pattern and what Gene showing here is that truck I think that's a 55 foot

[1:04:22] tractor trailer can make the turn in and out of the facility and not hit the media and not hit the

[1:04:34] the interstate traffic or trailers, the giant trailers and that one can make it as well,

[1:04:41] but man you better have a good driver. I'll skip next steps and just get to what you all need to

[1:04:48] talk about. So these are the five questions. The traffic capacity from 101 that is

[1:04:55] do we add a lane? What type of intersection do you want? You want roundabouts or signalized intersections

[1:05:02] And then, how do you want to manage left turns during the three segments of the court, or?

[1:05:08] And with that, you're meeting Mr. Chair.

[1:05:11] Thank you.

[1:05:12] Boom, you got it.

[1:05:14] And I do want to thank you.

[1:05:18] We have a great presentation here for us to work with.

[1:05:23] It's like a matrix of questions that we need to answer.

[1:05:27] And this is the way to do it.

[1:05:29] This is very good.

[1:05:30] So I would ask the committee to look at this little check sheet that we have and take a moment and I'll run through it.

[1:05:39] Question number one, being a choice between two travel lanes in each direction from route 101 to CRIF or one travel lane in each direction from route 101 to CRIF.

[1:05:54] The recommendation from the study committee was the two travel lanes.

[1:06:02] So, comment on questions or just go with the committee.

[1:06:07] Mr. Chairman, you may want to open this up to the public just a little more.

[1:06:11] I'll get there.

[1:06:12] We're not ready to vote.

[1:06:13] I just want to just get the committee kind of in gear where we're going.

[1:06:18] And the one member of the public that's here from Winchester Street.

[1:06:23] Question number two, regarding a roundabout intersection at Cliff Road and Matthews Road

[1:06:27] or signalize intersections at Cliff Road and Matthew's Road.

[1:06:33] The study committee was the roundabouts committee,

[1:06:36] just to make you a thoughts.

[1:06:39] Question number three, raise median from Route 101 to Cliff Road

[1:06:43] or raise median from Route 101 to just south of Kitstreet and a dual use

[1:06:50] center lane from that point to Cliff Road or a dual use center lane

[1:06:55] from Route 101 to CRIF Road.

[1:06:57] Study committee recommended the raised median from 101 to CRIF Road.

[1:07:04] A question four, raised median from CRIF Road to Matthew's Road,

[1:07:09] or a dual-use center lane from CRIF Road to Matthew's Road,

[1:07:13] or maintaining the current configuration.

[1:07:16] Study committee recommended the raised median.

[1:07:20] And finally, a question five,

[1:07:22] A dual-use center lane from Matthew's road to the town line, or maintaining the current configuration.

[1:07:32] Study committee, recommending the dual-use center lane.

[1:07:37] So if you would indicate your thoughts on this, and as the attorney suggested,

[1:07:43] opening it up to the public, if the public will like to weigh in and then not go back to the committee.

[1:07:49] I'd like you have anything, not to put you on the spot, or other councilor.

[1:08:03] Tom, thank you committee, thank you Mr. Chair. I'm actually, Mike remedy city councilor.

[1:08:09] I'm actually not speaking my opinion. I had a constituent text me that owns a business on that road,

[1:08:16] with, they texted me in code of BACCB, which I think, falling along with here,

[1:08:22] is their request was one traveling, instead of the two, they're okay with the roundabouts,

[1:08:33] they were in favor for number three, which was the median from one on the cliff,

[1:08:38] they were looking at the dual use center lane. They're concerned specifically on that one was

[1:08:43] if moving to a median, what would require taking a land on either side or if any of these

[1:08:49] would require expansion of the roadway,

[1:08:52] with that they were okay with C or A,

[1:08:54] which was the raised median.

[1:08:57] Their concern was around of this taking a space.

[1:09:02] And the other C was maintaining the current configuration

[1:09:06] from CRIFT, Matthew's road was their recommendation there,

[1:09:09] and be maintaining the current configuration

[1:09:11] for Matthew's road to the town line.

[1:09:14] So those were their thoughts.

[1:09:15] So not speaking mind, but just wanted to relay that.

[1:09:18] Thank you.

[1:09:21] Yes, sir.

[1:09:23] You.

[1:09:25] Mr. Robert Haam, 89 Valley Street.

[1:09:29] Two concerns.

[1:09:30] One is, I have a question about what's it like to, if you're coming out of all those businesses

[1:09:37] that are the auto dealership businesses, wanting to make a left turn, is that you have

[1:09:42] to go to the big major roundabout in order to turn left to go back south on Route 10.

[1:09:49] That's a concern.

[1:09:50] I wonder what those numbers would be like.

[1:09:53] The second question is, what about sidewalks?

[1:09:57] Are they a part of the equation?

[1:09:59] So, OK, done.

[1:10:02] City agent here.

[1:10:04] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[1:10:05] I'd like to just quickly address a couple of the questions.

[1:10:09] With respect to councilor Remi's comments,

[1:10:13] and Jean can step up and correct me if I'm wrong.

[1:10:16] But all of the options that we're talking about,

[1:10:20] do fit within the essentially within the right of way

[1:10:24] as it exists today.

[1:10:25] There will be property impacts mostly associated

[1:10:28] with the roundabouts where they're significantly

[1:10:33] larger than the existing intersection.

[1:10:36] But in terms of the corridor itself,

[1:10:38] we're looking mostly at either very narrow strip

[1:10:41] taking or all within the existing right of way.

[1:10:47] The gentleman that just spoke in terms of left turns out of the dealership, yes, those would

[1:10:53] take a right and use the existing large round about at Route 101 to make the U-turn.

[1:10:58] And as Gene mentioned, those U-turn movements, that those volumes of traffic are incorporated

[1:11:06] into our model to demonstrate that the traffic works in flows efficiently.

[1:11:11] And then the last question was sidewalks.

[1:11:16] Thank you.

[1:11:18] And yes, we gave short trip to sidewalks.

[1:11:21] It was kind of a foregone conclusion.

[1:11:23] But the recommendation was to include sidewalks along the western side of the corridor for the full length.

[1:11:33] From Lucinda Terrace to the town line,

[1:11:36] We would include sidewalks on both sides for the residents of Lucinda Terrace to be able to access

[1:11:42] market basket and the retail stores in Swansea, that those are included in the project

[1:11:48] along with five foot shoulders on the roadway, which probably are only were suggesting

[1:11:56] that there be marked as bike lanes, but they would be five foot shoulders available for bicyclists.

[1:12:03] One little bit of just traffic data that we do for that main end exit entrance from some of the dealerships.

[1:12:12] The left turns out of those dealerships are very minor.

[1:12:16] The volume of traffic is very small.

[1:12:19] Like it's four or five cars in a peak hour.

[1:12:22] So you're talking 40 or 50 all day.

[1:12:25] So it's not a significant amount of traffic that certainly would be having to use the big round about

[1:12:30] to reverse direction and head south.

[1:12:35] Committee, you have any questions about anything?

[1:12:38] One more?

[1:12:39] Yeah.

[1:12:40] Now, I wasn't ready to vote.

[1:12:42] It was, absolutely.

[1:12:43] OK.

[1:12:47] Laura Tobin, Center Street, and then I also work on Kit Street.

[1:12:55] So one thing that, from being honest,

[1:12:59] Because I don't feel fantastic about adding another round about in-part because working on

[1:13:07] kit-street,

[1:13:12] so it's actually, I think it's pretty impossible to take a left turn when

[1:13:16] you get out to leave.

[1:13:19] It's also really difficult to take a right turn.

[1:13:22] It's difficult to feed into traffic because there's just ongoing traffic.

[1:13:27] So most of the time what people do when they leave work is most people take a right out of

[1:13:35] kid's street, turn into a card dealership, which takes a while, and then they try to take

[1:13:44] another right out of there, which is also difficult.

[1:13:49] So kind of in thinking about what that means, that means that the traffic will still continue

[1:13:56] go. So while I understand that, you know, at this point, essentially we'd be doing the same thing

[1:14:02] and looping around that, for the traffic that was already coming through, one of us is going

[1:14:10] to have to wait. So I know that right now, when most people, I sit in the passenger seat, but most

[1:14:20] people avoid the round about, even though it's the fastest way to get me home.

[1:14:27] Because there's always a line going in, it's hectic, you can't see around the turn.

[1:14:34] So most people avoid that to get me to Center Street.

[1:14:41] So I don't necessarily think that the other quick comment that I'll make, sorry, is that

[1:14:48] The things that are on that street, there's a manufacturer of hotel and bank.

[1:14:56] So most of those people are leaving at the same time.

[1:15:01] So, a lot of people who have been kind of frustrated by this because I mean, there is a lot of horns, have you on the horn there? And then you have two lines trying to get out, but you have about 60 people leaving at five o'clock. So, I don't know how much support that is going to, I don't know whether that was necessarily going to be better option than

[1:15:31] just kind of a timed traffic light, you know, I guess that's what's at MarketBasket or something,

[1:15:42] a sensor triggered traffic light. But I would be curious, the other manufacturers,

[1:15:46] card dealerships are closed by the time we're going through there typically. So they're probably

[1:15:59] It seems like it's very concentrated.

[1:16:04] It definitely is, Mr. Chair.

[1:16:07] The only thing I would add to the response to that is

[1:16:12] A signalized intersection at Kitch Street is not really on the table.

[1:16:18] DOT would not permit us to put a signal that close to the route 101 round about.

[1:16:23] A signal there would inevitably cause traffic to pack up into the round about

[1:16:28] I want to want and that would pretty much stymie the intersection.

[1:16:34] So that's not one of the options that's available for discussion.

[1:16:37] I think around the vessel solve the issues that the incoming counselor has mentioned

[1:16:43] actually, right turns or a lot easier than trying to kind of cross all that traffic back

[1:16:49] there was a question.

[1:16:56] I am Jennifer Saiso, I live at 10 Fairfield Court, and I go to Hamshaw's, and I can never

[1:17:03] take a left.

[1:17:04] I always turn right out of there, so I really think the roundabouts are great.

[1:17:08] Thank you.

[1:17:11] All right, then I'm biased.

[1:17:14] Any more public comments, committee?

[1:17:18] So, to show in the discussion, we basically have the steering committee recommendation, which

[1:17:26] is, I guess to show in it, all the A's of the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and any,

[1:17:36] yes, thank you.

[1:17:38] I support the steering committee's recommendations.

[1:17:44] Two things is one, when I go down the west street,

[1:17:51] I can't tell you how many times people get stuck at two minutes

[1:17:55] because someone is trying to take a left turn

[1:18:00] and to dunk in donuts from the other white, white green.

[1:18:03] And then we caused the problem.

[1:18:06] I did see one accident there.

[1:18:11] Wow, I was teaching my granddaughter how to drive.

[1:18:14] Because the light turned green in the car right next to us,

[1:18:19] went forward.

[1:18:20] And I told you, don't go forward until the cars go forward.

[1:18:24] But there was a black bear.

[1:18:26] But the person in the car, I just,

[1:18:28] oh, it's green time for me to go.

[1:18:31] left turns, um, dangerous. My first ticket I got in the Marine Corps, and I was in

[1:18:38] Juanico, I made a U-turn to come to me and told me a double yellow line is because

[1:18:45] they'd shoot cheap to afford a concrete medium. And you never cross a double yellow line.

[1:18:54] And so that's why I also support the media because if no one's looking, people are going to make a left turn.

[1:19:03] So they're there.

[1:19:04] And so the medium reinforces the need to help prevent people from taking the left.

[1:19:11] And also help prevent things from tying up traffic.

[1:19:15] It doesn't do as any good to make all of these.

[1:19:18] If one person decides to take a left turn and hold everybody up.

[1:19:22] Okay, anything further from the public, Councillor Gorkman, you, thank you.

[1:19:30] I have to commend the steering committee.

[1:19:33] I think they got it right this time.

[1:19:36] I agree with all their recommendations right down the board.

[1:19:43] I know we're going to get a lot of heat from the public about the number of roundabouts that

[1:19:50] adding, but anyone who has driven down our new newly constructed key road area and Winchester

[1:20:00] in Pearl and Island now that all the lanes are open you can see it really does move traffic

[1:20:08] long so I also want to commend again that was a state project and city collaboration and

[1:20:17] growing up in Boston and being part of the big dig project.

[1:20:23] I know we also got a lot to lack on the length of time that it took to complete that.

[1:20:28] This project, but it was just just shy of a year and we'll go a little longer.

[1:20:35] But we also took the winter off.

[1:20:38] So I think we did act pretty expeditiously with the construction.

[1:20:45] construction, so I will be in favor of the approving their steering committee's recommendation.

[1:20:55] You're the one who has to make the plan.

[1:20:57] So let's stop.

[1:20:58] We'll be demanding anything further from the public committee.

[1:21:03] I've got a motion.

[1:21:04] Okay, well, it seems like since we're all on board, I'll read the five items, and I guess we can vote on all of them at once.

[1:21:11] And once again, you'll thank you to the steering committee, City staff, and everybody who brought it through MSFI, is the committee that talks about infrastructure issues.

[1:21:20] Well done.

[1:21:22] The first motion on item one is going to be provide two travel lanes in each direction from 101 to Griff Road.

[1:21:28] Item two, we place the intersection for a front and rear view zero to the roundabouts.

[1:21:32] Item three, construct a raised median from 101 to Griff Road.

[1:21:36] Item four, constructed of radius medium from peripheral to Matthew's road, item five, constructed

[1:21:42] dual use, centered turn lane from Matthew's road to the town line, and that's my motion.

[1:21:47] And the second would be from...

[1:21:49] Second.

[1:21:50] Council workman, anything further from the public, committee, saying none all in favor.

[1:21:58] That is unanimous. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And to the consultant, don't take it then I was pushing you.

[1:22:04] No, I just did a great job. He's a long-talking chair, don't worry. Okay, now somebody's leaving on a jet plane.

[1:22:14] And rest assured, I'll catch the rest of the meeting online.

[1:22:19] And she'll be thinking of us in the river.

[1:22:24] Okay, great.

[1:22:26] Okay, just reshuffling everybody everywhere.

[1:22:28] And thank you to our consultant and to Mr. Bohanan for getting push along, please.

[1:22:38] Go right ahead.

[1:22:39] No worries.

[1:22:40] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[1:22:41] Members of the committee.

[1:22:43] Anybody who had a parks recreation facilities director.

[1:22:46] In tonight before you is just an overview of the concept plan for Robin Hood Park.

[1:22:52] We needed to bring this back to you as a result of the efforts in the CIP.

[1:23:02] When we had put this in the original CIP process, this was really to engage the public and

[1:23:09] to focus on public engagement and what we needed to do to have this discussion related to Robin

[1:23:16] Hood Pool and where we're going in the future.

[1:23:19] We pulled together a committee, Councilors Williams and Bosley, Keith Tibo, who was the chair

[1:23:27] and steered the Russell Park Committee, or Russell Park Committee, and then we had Mark

[1:23:33] Gemplar, Dan Gillard, Fiona Lori, who was from the Gathering Water School in Jamie White.

[1:23:40] A lot of neighbors related to Robin Hood Park.

[1:23:43] We had staff members, Raffred Varley, who was our recreation manager, and Mary Brunner, our senior planner.

[1:23:53] Along with these folks, we brought in Duboing King and worked alongside Dan Malak, who's here with you tonight,

[1:24:02] and really just kind of focused on a couple of different areas with the public and had different public engagement processes.

[1:24:08] So I'm going to turn it over to Dan and allow him to share the final report in a few slides here, and we'll go back to questions.

[1:24:19] Thanks, Andy.

[1:24:20] Thank you very much.

[1:24:21] Again, my name is Dan Malik.

[1:24:22] I'm a landscape architect and certified planner with the firm to boys and king.

[1:24:27] Here to present about our process and concept plans for Robin Hood Park to continue to make it a safe and enjoyable place.

[1:24:36] and increasingly accessible for a variety of users for a long time to come.

[1:24:44] And this slide simply shows many of the views and numerous assets about at the park that are cherished and beloved by the community.

[1:24:52] And our idea and our purpose really, our charge, was to engage in a robust engagement process that would strengthen these assets that they have now.

[1:25:01] improve access to them and really keep what is working beautifully about the

[1:25:06] park that people love and again make them more accessible and enjoyable for

[1:25:12] a long time to come. This did grow out of the 2012 active and passive

[1:25:20] recreation management plan, which called for comprehensive plans of the city

[1:25:25] parks, thinking about them, top to bottom, and the way planning should be, and more explicitly

[1:25:32] as Andy mentioned the 2023-2029 Capital Improvement Plan focusing on design and concept development

[1:25:39] for Robin Hood Park and public engagement.

[1:25:44] And through that events in July, a public workshop, a presentation of concepts held at the

[1:25:50] on September 6th of this year, a 3 day flash vote survey sent out by the city that garnered

[1:25:58] 273 responses over that period and definitely guidance from that steering committee that Andy

[1:26:04] mentioned and outreach formally and formally through the gathering water school and other

[1:26:09] neighbors talking to both kids and families. And the top items that came up repeatedly

[1:26:15] throughout that, and all this input, upgraded bathroom facilities, a swimming pool in aquatic

[1:26:22] facilities for the east side users and joys of the park, natural type playground, equipment that

[1:26:30] gracefully fits into the atmosphere of Robin Hood Park and some type of sports courts, as well as

[1:26:37] keeping those assets that are wonderful the ecology of the place and honoring that in terms of

[1:26:43] stewardship. So our team I was joined by another landscape architect as well as a civil

[1:26:48] engineer given obviously the dam located there in the reservoir's critical that we had

[1:26:53] a civil engineer on our project team. We came up with two concepts that had two different ideas

[1:27:00] for the sort of the north, if you will, where the pool is central, where the pavilion and

[1:27:05] camp building is now in south areas of the park.

[1:27:09] throwing ideas out. We developed both these concept 1 and concept 2 with slightly different

[1:27:15] visions. Some similar features just relocated. One had a pool. One had a very large splash pad.

[1:27:23] Fundamentally, those were the largest differences between the two and then presented those to the

[1:27:28] public for a well-intended meeting that I mentioned in September held at Robin Hood Park.

[1:27:33] And the main feedback that we received through all of this falls into these six categories,

[1:27:40] support for pedestrian circulation improvements throughout the park, connectivity,

[1:27:46] the need to preserve the natural environment of the park for both stewardship, ethic,

[1:27:50] and recreation programming as well, that there's a strong desire to maintain a pool in this

[1:27:56] of keen for recreation as well as life skills, support, preference for a natural place

[1:28:02] strategy that I mentioned, that combines safe play options with education, and a style

[1:28:08] that fits the field of the park, and tapping into local knowledge, which was a lot of fun

[1:28:12] for us that certain areas of the reservoir are better for fishing, therefore better for

[1:28:16] a fishing dock, where the deeper and cooler water is in the southwest portion of the reservoir.

[1:28:21] And, of course, maintenance is critical.

[1:28:25] Can these suggested conceptual improvements fit

[1:28:29] in with the ongoing maintenance capacity

[1:28:31] and budget of the parks department?

[1:28:36] And so, through that, we refined those two concepts

[1:28:39] into concept A and concept B, which were very similar

[1:28:43] except for the north side area of the pool.

[1:28:46] The first concept A shows a refurbished pool

[1:28:49] the same footprint that currently exists and looking into that possibility how that might work.

[1:28:58] I understand is ongoing. What you'll also see, however, is a small splash pad which expands

[1:29:03] usability to some lower-aged users potentially to be able to use a splash pad and we heard

[1:29:11] that from a lot of parents and families refurbishing the existing pool house. The parking area

[1:29:17] That's there now is unstrapped in a little bit of unpredictable and less legible parking

[1:29:24] area.

[1:29:25] That's not ideal for parking.

[1:29:27] Making Robin Hood Lane one way, but recognizing that people like to park along it.

[1:29:32] And so we've put in 10 areas conceptually for parking along Robin Hood Lane, as well as

[1:29:38] a striped pedestrian lane along the side where the camp area and the pavilion is right

[1:29:45] Now in the middle is really a bridge space between the northern and southern portions that

[1:29:51] will be a wonderful meadow area for learning and seeding and as you sit on the right edge

[1:29:58] if you will, the Eastern Sidingham.

[1:30:00] Look across to the woodlands and the incredible stonework up toward the amphitheater at this park. It's an excellent space for gathering, because we'll be taking out in these concepts, the existing camp building and this concept shows as we move further south that buildings and new community building.

[1:30:19] It's about one and a half times the footprint of the existing camp and bathroom building. And so of course we'll have new bathrooms. We're also a four season community gathering area and room.

[1:30:29] something that a lot of people express support for the ability to use the park space year-round

[1:30:34] potentially indoors. You see some nature play nodes but also a larger nature play area near 21

[1:30:41] new parking spaces at the southern side of the park. Very high demand for that for people using the

[1:30:47] barbecue area for people using a multi-sport court that we show on this concept. We show an additional

[1:30:53] side walk connection between this new parking area and Robin Hood Lane. And there are

[1:30:59] others smaller finer grain amenities like a bicycle hub, a path that could be used up to

[1:31:05] that barbecue area and past nature play. And of course we don't want to forget the area

[1:31:10] the amphitheater, accessible parking, composting toilets potentially and other improvements

[1:31:16] that the city can do to that end.

[1:31:20] So concept B is really similar to what I just showed you.

[1:31:24] It has a new pool.

[1:31:27] But otherwise, very similar features

[1:31:28] were the small splash pad, refurbished pool building.

[1:31:32] A new pool would allow us to move some of these features

[1:31:34] northward, allowing for a little more parking

[1:31:36] as well as a drop-off area on that northern parking area.

[1:31:40] But otherwise, what I just laid out for the first concept

[1:31:44] would remain the same.

[1:31:45] And here are just some food for thought images.

[1:31:48] We prepared a larger report going into all of these,

[1:31:52] as well as stewardship of many of the woodlands on the site,

[1:31:55] and some recommendations about that.

[1:31:57] And I understand that report is available on the city website.

[1:32:03] A way finding along with accessibility

[1:32:05] is going to be critical, a cohesive plan

[1:32:08] for guiding people around the park, not only physically,

[1:32:12] but allowing folks to understand

[1:32:13] that there's really special ecology and geology underlying this park and it's a wonderful opportunity

[1:32:20] integrate play and recreation with really science and education and that's one thing that

[1:32:25] really resonated with a lot of people we spoke with in illustration of that learning meadow

[1:32:30] that I talked about in the area of the current camp building in pavilion, multi-sport court

[1:32:35] and rink is a very flexible space that can be anything from many pitch soccer to an ice rink

[1:32:41] in the winter. And really, that's essentially it. I encourage you to read the report. But on behalf

[1:32:47] of our team, I just want to thank the city for the opportunity to work again for the enhancement

[1:32:53] of your parks. And if you have any questions, Andy and I all do our best to answer them.

[1:32:58] Good presentation. Can you? Very, very, my lights on. Briefly, what's the difference between

[1:33:04] plan one plan two. Yeah, sure. Go, just back to them. As we call it, or one, it's the existing

[1:33:12] pool that would be refurbished where it is and I understand the city is exploring whether a

[1:33:18] liner product can actually extend the life of this pool significantly and some improvements to the

[1:33:23] apron at the same time. Whereas the second you'll see, if you do look at that L shape, that is the

[1:33:29] existing pool footprint. The second B moves a new pool, which is very slightly smaller.

[1:33:36] It doesn't quite have the L that has it, but it's a standard length and width for use

[1:33:41] by some types of like competition level. And expectations, like it's a 30 meter long pool,

[1:33:48] for example. And it really just moves improvements up north a bit to add also a little parking

[1:33:53] just down below. So I'll just toggle back and forth and you can kind of see the difference.

[1:33:57] the mid-end south portions of these two plans are identical.

[1:34:02] The cost differences.

[1:34:05] Certainly refurbishing the existing pool would enjoy significant cost savings.

[1:34:12] That's a good thing.

[1:34:14] I was confident in the question, I guess.

[1:34:18] After attending the outdoor meeting back in September, which is well attended, there was

[1:34:24] a lot of area residents that attended that.

[1:34:26] And after that meeting was over, a lot of them got in touch with me.

[1:34:29] A was he, keep the pool, it was either refurbished or replaced.

[1:34:32] So that was by far the whole east side of the city wants their pool refurbished or replaced.

[1:34:39] No splash bad, no concrete, just keep or refurbished the pool.

[1:34:44] That was number one.

[1:34:45] Number two is newer, renovated bathrooms, fixing those and better lift.

[1:34:50] That was number two.

[1:34:51] Beyond that, most residents of spoke to me were just fine with those two items.

[1:34:55] The third most important thing was, don't raise our taxes doing this.

[1:35:00] That was third, so plan A or plan B, both of them look great, but I think it's going

[1:35:05] to come down to when you get beyond the pool and beyond the bathrooms, keep costs and check.

[1:35:10] Because if this grants out there, I know Andy's great at going after them, we applaud

[1:35:15] you for that.

[1:35:16] If you can find the grants to expand some of these other things great, but if it's going to

[1:35:20] go to the tax rolls, let's stick to the pool and to the bathrooms.

[1:35:24] And I would just say Councillor, the flash vote information that we got definitely supports

[1:35:31] the constituents that called you and focused on the pool and the bathrooms and really

[1:35:38] refurbishing what we have.

[1:35:41] So as we go further kind of the next steps, because right now part of the premise of doing

[1:35:46] this summer and getting this reported out was for the upcoming CIP process. So we didn't

[1:35:55] change the numbers that we had identified previously. So we're looking at still working

[1:36:02] with an additional folks to find out related to the liner. It kind of came late in the process

[1:36:08] as an identification of an opportunity for us, which could be some significant savings to us

[1:36:15] really extend the life of the pool. We're still investigating that to make sure that that is

[1:36:22] the right direction. And if it is, then I think we've done a great job at saving money and utilizing

[1:36:29] the budget that we have proposed for some of the other items. The bathrooms, I think, are, you

[1:36:34] know, that's significant. And we're going to have to put some work into those regardless this year.

[1:36:42] So, I think these are some of the things that the community has asked for, and keep in mind that this was a concept plan.

[1:36:53] So, all the ideas came forward, and that's what Dan kind of like put everything together and what this looks like.

[1:37:01] Then the next step is really, because we'll be using this information for another LW CF application, which you approved for the application process.

[1:37:10] a couple weeks ago. The next step is that in FY27, we're going to refine this design and say,

[1:37:20] okay, this is the budget that we have and let's meet that budget accordingly. So I think we're

[1:37:27] going to be on the right track moving forward. Thank you. Yeah. Good answers. Yep, Councillor.

[1:37:34] Thank you for all your work on this. Just to say I'm very happy it looks like we'll be able to

[1:37:40] keep a pool in some form. I've been scared at the price tag of that. Well, knowing that

[1:37:46] that pool is extremely important to people on the east side, you know, kids go there.

[1:37:49] My kid worked there this summer. It's, you know, it's an important resource for the community.

[1:37:54] And, you know, when we, when we do upgrade or replace the pool, fix the pool,

[1:38:03] let's also make sure we've got, we've got the programming to go with it because, you know,

[1:38:08] We're going to make this investment in our parks.

[1:38:11] We've also got to ensure that it's being used.

[1:38:15] And let's make sure that we encourage people

[1:38:17] to get out and use it.

[1:38:19] Because it's a great pool, but perhaps a little underutilized

[1:38:23] last year.

[1:38:25] What I'd like to see what we can do to get people out there,

[1:38:27] because it's a great facility.

[1:38:29] Also, I want to speak up for splash pads, which

[1:38:34] when I had a toddler and there was a splash pad

[1:38:37] in the neighborhood, it was a greatest thing.

[1:38:40] And I think a lot of parents who were a little older,

[1:38:43] and maybe haven't experienced that, you know,

[1:38:45] maybe don't know, but just a place where your kid

[1:38:48] can go and get wet on a high day means a lot,

[1:38:52] without necessarily being a pool,

[1:38:54] that would be a very good thing for our community.

[1:38:57] So thank you.

[1:38:58] Thank you.

[1:38:59] Yeah, of course.

[1:39:02] I'm going to just agree with my fellow councilor over here.

[1:39:09] Because I'm going to put together everything different committees that have told me,

[1:39:16] you as one committee has come out and said, we have to improve the east side of this city.

[1:39:24] And with this and this and this, well, being on the school committee,

[1:39:30] what has happened over and over and over and over has been economic discrimination.

[1:39:36] We have been fighting and we have finally won to improve the quality of school of Franklin

[1:39:44] school.

[1:39:45] We are definitely improving the quality of wheel-like school.

[1:39:51] Those are kind of the foundations to bring people into that area and both of those schools

[1:39:58] are growing.

[1:40:00] What we have invested both on the school and along in the city, the park, we have

[1:40:06] We love Park. I've held a place that people want to come to. Okay, we, the bike path. I mean, not the, the bike thing out there, the pool, the, the baseball fields. Everything is out there. We like Park.

[1:40:24] We improve on Simon's school, we have done all that stuff, we have moved the Y out there, everything is out there on that side of the town.

[1:40:35] What have we done on this side of the town, the east side of the town in the last 20 years?

[1:40:42] We've upgraded the direct center a little bit, but for a long time the east side, the city

[1:40:51] which just turned into housing for the college, for college students.

[1:40:58] We are now seeing people coming back in, back filming those areas, if we want to bring

[1:41:06] more people back into the east side to upgrade the quality of the plate, the apartments and

[1:41:14] building because we thought about, I don't know if it was here or at the state house,

[1:41:21] of creating a fund to help people buy their houses and upgrade the quality of the houses,

[1:41:27] because we know if we upgrade the quality of houses we increase the tax base. So we need a good

[1:41:34] attraction. I think we need to make a proper investment in Will, I mean, Robin Hood Park that

[1:41:42] moms and dads want to bring the kids there. It comes a focal event. You touched on the

[1:41:50] amplitude. You know that the empathy it was used to heck of a lot more in years past.

[1:42:03] Yes,

[1:42:03] The ice, but you also know Andy, you remember when they dropped the fish there and you

[1:42:10] had the fish turnerings, how that was such a big attraction, that's what I would like

[1:42:16] to say.

[1:42:17] Even if it's a five or a ten-year plan, we had the budget out, what do we want, will I mean

[1:42:23] Robin Hood park to look like ten years from now?

[1:42:27] Why can't it be up to his potential just like will I park?

[1:42:31] That's what I'm looking forward.

[1:42:35] Thank you.

[1:42:36] Great point by the council.

[1:42:38] I would just point out that I think as you see in the CIP,

[1:42:43] we've put in for two years FY27 and FY28

[1:42:48] and through the LWCF grants will certainly be applying

[1:42:51] for those to enhance as we did with Russell Park,

[1:42:55] which has been a tremendous lift to the east side

[1:42:57] and with the skate park that's going in.

[1:43:00] that location next spring. I really feel like the east side is going to have some great park

[1:43:07] amenities. And if you think about Russell Park, you know, Robin Hood's not that far off,

[1:43:13] but Russell Park had 48% of its red, the keen residents within a 10-minute walk of that facility.

[1:43:20] In Robin Hood's not that much farther up to road, so I don't know the exact math, but I'm going

[1:43:25] Yes, it's somewhere around 35% and so we have a great opportunity as you state the council

[1:43:32] Roberts and I'll just be remiss if I don't state that you know council Williams has

[1:43:38] been on two park projects now with Russell Park and this park and the knowledge is brought

[1:43:45] from Russell over to this has been really helpful just to bring people in related to that

[1:43:50] compliance and making sure that accessibility is there. So I think we've had really great input

[1:43:58] from the counselor on this particular project. So Andy are you looking for any recommendation

[1:44:07] or is this just this would be informational? Good information. Anything questions from the public?

[1:44:14] this is obviously an East side project.

[1:44:22] Yeah.

[1:44:23] Hi, Jennifer, size 10 for your field court.

[1:44:26] I have a question about the pool.

[1:44:27] I'm definitely in favor of the pool.

[1:44:31] I want to make sure that if we refurbish the pool,

[1:44:36] that how long are we expanding the life of the pool,

[1:44:39] I don't know anything about what the pool issues are,

[1:44:42] but if we have to come back in five years,

[1:44:44] this project isn't going to start for our views.

[1:44:46] And if we have to come back on five years and dig it all up because the pipes underground

[1:44:50] are working, then I think we shouldn't go that route.

[1:44:54] So I know this is a short term cost.

[1:44:56] We're looking at the cost now, but I think we have to look at it.

[1:45:00] A little bit beyond that, so I don't know anything, but that's my comment.

[1:45:03] Very good question.

[1:45:06] So the concept behind what we're looking at is taking the pool itself, putting a PVC liner within it.

[1:45:15] And changing, by doing this, we can change some of the elements, so it'd be like a zero entry pool.

[1:45:22] and make it all ADA compliant at the same time.

[1:45:27] We'd have to redo the gutters and some of the apron around the pool as well.

[1:45:34] So this would actually be more of a long-term project.

[1:45:37] So it would be, or long-term impact.

[1:45:40] You're looking at about a 15-year window of once you install this liner.

[1:45:46] It would be that last and then you replace the liner moving forward.

[1:45:51] So I think you definitely have the longevity that you're looking for, and certainly within

[1:45:56] that end of that 15-year life, you come back to the table, and is this still the direction

[1:46:02] of the community, because I don't.

[1:46:05] The replacement cost of the liner is still significantly less than going out and building

[1:46:10] a new pool.

[1:46:11] And if we do it right the first time, I think the community will be happy, and especially

[1:46:15] the East Side.

[1:46:18] Very good.

[1:46:20] I don't think that a pool and a splash pattern mutually

[1:46:22] We're over time feeding night valley street.

[1:46:26] Kudos to Councillor Roberts and to Councillor Williams.

[1:46:32] I hope we're not going to be penny-wise and pound foolish when it comes to the

[1:46:38] pool amenities.

[1:46:40] And that would be my one concern about it.

[1:46:44] Secondly, on another point, the summers are heating up.

[1:46:48] I don't think that a pool and a splash pad are mutually exclusive and splash pads

[1:46:55] that occurs to me are much less costly.

[1:46:58] I mean, lots of kids are going to be swimming and splash pad is a wonderful cooling area

[1:47:03] for little ones who can't do yet swim.

[1:47:08] So I don't think that mutually exclusive and I encourage continuing to look at a splash

[1:47:12] have had as a part of the infrastructure.

[1:47:19] Anyone else of the public committee?

[1:47:24] Who's up for the first information information?

[1:47:30] Move that this report to accept that is information.

[1:47:34] And from the public committee,

[1:47:37] Motion's been made in seconded and therefore, all in favor, we are unanimous.

[1:47:43] Thank you.

[1:47:45] Good reporting.

[1:47:46] Again, thank you for the reshuffling of the agenda.

[1:47:51] And we come to item five.

[1:47:54] This is a conversation regarding safety concerns on the east side of

[1:47:59] keen and strategies to address homelessness.

[1:48:02] So first up, I'll recognize the city manager.

[1:48:05] Thank you.

[1:48:07] As promised, tonight I am reporting out and providing an update to the committee regarding

[1:48:14] topics discussed at your MSFI meeting regarding the concerns expressed on our east side.

[1:48:21] I will start and then turn it over to Andy and Court, one request to provide an update, and

[1:48:26] then Chief Stewart has a few words as well, and then finally Beth Daniels from SES.

[1:48:32] So we have a pretty extensive update for you this evening.

[1:48:35] We're here now.

[1:48:37] Since the MSF meeting, we've had several city task force meetings regarding homelessness.

[1:48:42] We meet every other week.

[1:48:44] This task force is made up of departments with the boots on the ground.

[1:48:49] Police, fire, public works, parks, facilities, community development, health and code, and our economic development director.

[1:48:57] We discuss issues we are seeing or are being issues that are being reported to us and then we brainstorm ideas and solutions.

[1:49:07] And then we assign tasks and then at the next meeting we report out on the progress.

[1:49:12] In addition we've had multiple meetings with SES to discuss cold weather plans during the coldest nights of the year.

[1:49:20] So I'll start by discussing the first concerns, which was related to needles, and since the meeting, Andy Bohann, and Chi-Farquar and Morgan Britain from the Serenity Center, with the support of Sam Lake, the Executive Director of the Serenity Center, who is also here with us tonight,

[1:49:42] Have discussed the additional needle disposal boxes for the Pat Russell Park and the library.

[1:49:49] Serenity Center has offered to provide the boxes and empty them as part of their needle disposal projects.

[1:49:56] So this is a really great service that they're willing to provide for us.

[1:50:01] These boxes have arrived and I spoke with Andy.

[1:50:05] We plan to have them installed by the end of the month in those two locations.

[1:50:09] We are looking to potentially expand this program to other parks and trails, but this is our first step.

[1:50:17] In addition, we are looking to set up a program at the library to make Narcan more widely available.

[1:50:23] Chief Barquar has offered training assistance as well as Andy's team and the library is very much interested in being part of this.

[1:50:33] We also heard concerns that MSFI related to trail trimming and lighting, Andy Bohannon and

[1:50:41] court-blomped quests have both had teams go out and trim different areas, and they will

[1:50:47] provide an update both related to trimming and to lighting, which was another comment

[1:50:52] at the meeting.

[1:50:54] The suggested addition of a public bathroom staff has added the proposal in the capital improvement

[1:51:01] plan for a bathroom to be added downtown, which would be timed with the downtown project.

[1:51:08] So, you know, we opened up the bathrooms of the Pat Russell Park in a short amount of time

[1:51:13] they were vandalized.

[1:51:15] It was the same issue that we experienced long before I arrived when we had bathrooms available

[1:51:20] in the downtown.

[1:51:21] So we have searched for the most indestructible bathroom we can find.

[1:51:26] So, you're going to be shocked at the price, but there are a range of options and depending

[1:51:32] on the level of automation, the cost is between $400,500,000 for one bathroom.

[1:51:39] Yes, I know it's shocking, but I've added it to your capital plan because you had requests

[1:51:47] to me to do so, and this will be presented to the Council at the January Workshop where

[1:51:52] we kick off that discussion.

[1:51:54] And I did add it to be time for the downtown projects so that we're in the Gilbow

[1:51:59] Ab area.

[1:52:00] We would be able to do it at the same time.

[1:52:04] And in addition to that, I know of the last couple of weeks, hundreds of nights did

[1:52:07] check with community development office to determine if they could locate a port of party

[1:52:12] at their site.

[1:52:13] And it's my understanding that it's something that they could get approved by the community

[1:52:17] development department if they decided to pursue it, but I'm not sure if they are or not.

[1:52:22] There were also comments about homes in sidewalks and disrepair in the east side.

[1:52:31] In regards to the conditions, concerns related to conditions of homes, I have directed the

[1:52:37] community development department to prepare a presentation for Gassu, the MSFI Committee,

[1:52:44] and that it will be at your December 12 meeting.

[1:52:46] Our code enforcement program is one that is reactive, meaning that we respond to complaints.

[1:52:53] I've asked the department to explain our current system and discuss what it would take to actually create a more proactive

[1:53:00] code enforcement department.

[1:53:04] And so that I could get some additional direction before we put together the operating budget,

[1:53:09] which will be the next step in our budgeting process.

[1:53:12] In regards to sidewalk projects, as you know, we have a sidewalk asset management plan, which is also part of the city's capital plan.

[1:53:22] You have a presentation about sidewalks at your September 27th committee meeting, so I'll just a little while ago.

[1:53:30] If you want to increase the amount of sidewalks I know some of you do, sidewalk projects that we do each year, we would need to increase the budget.

[1:53:38] Several sidewalk projects are scheduled in the east side.

[1:53:43] There are 23 miles of sidewalk improvements planned over the next seven years of the capital plan.

[1:53:50] And as you know, the sidewalk asset management plan looks at these projects and prioritizes them based on level of demand.

[1:53:57] So the amount of pedestrian use, current condition and then safety concerns.

[1:54:03] In regards to engaging more volunteers in helping us to solve some of these issues,

[1:54:12] SES is looking to bring some volunteer training back and we will need volunteers for any

[1:54:18] overflow shelters that are created. We met with the UCC Church today about setting up an

[1:54:24] arrangement and partnership with SES in the city to create overflow capacity for the homeless

[1:54:29] on the coldest nights of the year, but the city also has a volunteer program and it's kind

[1:54:36] of been dormit. It's been used, but it's not been really advertised recently. The city has

[1:54:43] what's called the Spirit of Place Program. I'm not sure if you have one of these up there or not,

[1:54:49] but here I have a couple. I'll pass up there. This program has been in place for a long time.

[1:54:57] Let's see, it's right now what we mostly use it for the adopt-event program, some parks,

[1:55:08] and some of the roundabouts.

[1:55:10] In fact, Greenwill, Real Reality, adopted one of our roundabout centers, and is part of our

[1:55:17] spirit of place program.

[1:55:19] So what we're planning to do is we'll be adding more volunteer opportunities, including some

[1:55:25] side volunteer opportunities to this program and revamping the guidelines because it really

[1:55:31] hasn't been looked at in several years. It hasn't been looked at since I've been here.

[1:55:35] Even though we've done some volunteer programs, it really hasn't been advertised. And then once

[1:55:45] we revamp it, we would be asking Rebecca Landriek to promote it for us and see if we can engage.

[1:55:52] This established program includes all the necessary volunteer paperwork and it makes sense to look at what we currently have and then just reestablish that program.

[1:56:03] The official volunteers this part of this program are recognized by the city and this is a great program not only to find a way to engage our east side who are asking how can I help but really to engage the community more and build a greater sense of community.

[1:56:20] And so I'm excited about looking at how we can really get this program active again.

[1:56:27] In addition, there are volunteer opportunities on city boards and commissions.

[1:56:32] And there's a great deal of work that's ongoing regarding the housing crisis.

[1:56:37] The city has implemented several zoning changes to create more opportunities for housing,

[1:56:41] densification of the downtown reduced lot size in the rural district, and we're currently working on and you know this, but it may be the public doesn't kind of exciting.

[1:56:53] A cottage court overlay ordinance through the PLD and the joint PLD to create opportunities for development of more affordable homes with smaller footprints including tiny homes.

[1:57:05] So that is making its way right now through the committee process and I think that will create another opportunity for some more development of housing at different affordability options.

[1:57:19] There are also opportunities to get involved with SES lead homeless coalition.

[1:57:24] So that I've talked about that coalition before.

[1:57:27] It's regional partners who work with the homeless,

[1:57:30] so they do all sorts of provide for all sorts of services.

[1:57:33] And city staff from human services attend those meetings,

[1:57:38] sometimes I attend as well as members of the police department,

[1:57:41] depending on what's on the agenda.

[1:57:43] They meet once a month and it's been virtual since COVID,

[1:57:46] so it's pretty easy to join if someone's interested.

[1:57:50] At their last meeting, they brainstormed

[1:57:52] what opportunities exist to work together in the subgroup.

[1:57:56] they are currently working with partners to expand mobile support services which is one of the

[1:58:02] things I've talked a lot about and multi agency mobile outreach teams and so I'm very excited about

[1:58:10] the work that they're doing and I will support them however I can and I mentioned they are looking

[1:58:16] at creating volunteer training which is also great and we will be happy to help them promote that

[1:58:24] And working with us on the cold, cold weather overflow operations, which is going to be important.

[1:58:30] It's getting cold out, but these options are typically available on the coldest nights of the year.

[1:58:36] And we usually get a weather alert from the state when that's happening.

[1:58:40] Not a lot of advanced notice, a couple of days.

[1:58:43] But those are the nights that the people who may be living in the woods who aren't for whatever reason in the shelters.

[1:58:50] those of the nights they might come in for a night or two. And so we've always had to have some sort of option for that.

[1:58:57] And we're looking at what that will be for this for this winter.

[1:59:03] So Beth Daniels, who is the executive director, is here, and she will provide an update and following her.

[1:59:10] She, her update will be following the police chief.

[1:59:14] I want to take this opportunity to also recognize SES and Beth Daniel specifically.

[1:59:20] They have been amazing partners to the city, just helping us brainstorm solutions and

[1:59:26] always being willing to assist.

[1:59:30] The other thing that we've been working on since the last MSFIM meeting is, I talked a lot

[1:59:37] about sort of the system of homelessness in the state of New Hampshire, the 211 system.

[1:59:43] And one of the things that I would love to see is our ability to reserve capacity at the

[1:59:48] local shelters for human services.

[1:59:52] Now that we already have people who access the shelters directly.

[1:59:57] What I'm talking about is if someone comes in to...

[2:00:00] It's seen Natalie and Human Services, and we need a place to put them, reserving some capacity at the shelters to be able to do that.

[2:00:10] And to be honest, it does two things. It helps us meet our need when people come into CS, but it also helps to reduce the inflow from other parts of the state, when those beds are being filled through the two-one-one system.

[2:00:28] So I'm right now having these conversations with both SES and 100 Nights, both have indicated

[2:00:35] a willingness, we're just kind of working on what that might look like and how logistically

[2:00:39] we might make that happen and whether or not we would need to make a financial contribution

[2:00:45] because there is a per night fee that is paid to the shelters from the state.

[2:00:52] And so we're working through all of that.

[2:00:55] trash. There has been a lot of conversation about trash. We talked a lot about it at our last meeting.

[2:01:01] We have been working with right now. We're working with the owner behind Hanifords, the property owner,

[2:01:07] about a cold weather cleanup of the site. This would be a similar arrangement made with the property owner near the

[2:01:14] don't that we made with the property on their Stone Arch Bridge, the Route 101 cleanup, Pearl

[2:01:19] Street, and behind Coles.

[2:01:21] In those cleanups in total, we removed 35.5 tons of trash,

[2:01:28] and it was a partnership with the

[2:01:31] property owners.

[2:01:32] The property owners paid to have the contractors come in and do the work.

[2:01:36] We provided the roll-off containers to put the trash in, and then we waved the fee of the

[2:01:44] that helps us to get some of these long-term encampments cleaned up with the understanding

[2:01:52] that the property owners then need to come up with a plan to monitor their property

[2:01:56] to prevent it becoming that kind of in that kind of condition again in the future.

[2:02:03] Since our last MSFI meeting, we have also you have also approved the Key and Police Department

[2:02:09] Social Worker position. It's not a great name because a lot of people get confused by what

[2:02:14] actually means. But what it is is a person at the police department that will be following

[2:02:22] up on all of the opioid or substance use related calls. And looking to provide services

[2:02:32] or connect the individual with treatment or whatever services they may need. And oftentimes

[2:02:38] this means there's interaction with the homeless. It may take several times but it's a proactive

[2:02:44] approach instead of a reactive approach and it's an attempt to cut down on, you know, seeing

[2:02:51] the same people at the police department. So I'm excited. It's a brand new program. It's a pilot.

[2:02:56] I'm sure we'll have to make adjustments as we go forward, but we're getting ready to advertise for

[2:03:00] that position right now. There was a question about C, C something, say something and that is my

[2:03:08] for my understanding is more of a state or federal program.

[2:03:12] However, what we do have at the city

[2:03:14] and we can do some more press on this

[2:03:17] is called the C-C-Click Fix Program.

[2:03:20] I have it on my phone.

[2:03:22] It's an app that you can download

[2:03:24] to report all sorts of issues.

[2:03:28] You can report and include an attached picture.

[2:03:31] It has like a GPS location.

[2:03:33] It helps us know exactly where the problem is.

[2:03:36] Right now on the menu, you can choose bike path issues, cemetery issue, dead animal, which we must get a lot of

[2:03:44] to make the list. Drainage and flooding, graffiti, manhole issue, a park issue, cloud damage, sidewalk issue, a sign issue, a street light issue, trash dumping, tree issue, water and sewer issue, and then there's other, which really is just an open, you need one of reports something.

[2:04:05] What the great thing is about this system is it notifies the appropriate department about the

[2:04:10] concern automatically.

[2:04:12] The system tracks the response and when the issue has been resolved it notifies the person

[2:04:17] who reported the concern as to what was done about it.

[2:04:21] So I reported a couple of years ago on here a tree issue and it went immediately to public

[2:04:27] works and then with a short period of time I got a response back about what was done about

[2:04:34] the tree.

[2:04:34] It's a great system, and it really could be utilized a lot more.

[2:04:40] It also helps us track what sort of issues we're responding to.

[2:04:45] So that is out there.

[2:04:47] And then there was a question about neighborhood association meetings.

[2:04:53] And the department has in myself are happy to attend neighborhood association meetings on requests.

[2:04:59] I used to do that when East Keane was meeting on a regular basis.

[2:05:03] Sometimes they would have something on their agenda that they would want me to come and talk about or maybe they wanted the police department

[2:05:10] And they would contact me and then me and someone from the police would go

[2:05:14] And so we're very happy to do that. That's how we've engaged with these associations in the past and be happy to do that again

[2:05:23] In addition, I would offer that if there's a topic someone is interested in bringing forward to the city's homeless task force that I could include them in one of our meetings

[2:05:32] And I'm happy to dedicate a period of time to do that for public if they want to reach out and talk about an issue or ask a question,

[2:05:42] happy to do that. They can give me a call or an email.

[2:05:46] And then on a related topic, I've recently temporarily increased the hours of the part time admin staff and human services through the winter.

[2:05:56] And we are currently recruiting for 20 hour per week out reach worker.

[2:06:02] Those are both important things for us to be able to respond to the increased demand that

[2:06:07] we've seen in our office and that we will continue to see throughout the winter.

[2:06:12] I want to really slow back down again until summer.

[2:06:17] And then lastly, we drafted an ordinance recently approved by the City Council to give more

[2:06:23] flexibility when the city is working with a partner to create temporary overflow space for

[2:06:28] the homeless. We just did this. We just completed that. These are typically the individuals,

[2:06:34] as I mentioned before, who don't want to go into shelter, but they will come in on the very

[2:06:39] cold nights. The ordinance address chapter 46, which is the licensing board requirements.

[2:06:44] If we create an agreement on MOU with the city and this term is for a short term and the code says

[2:06:52] less than 120 days.

[2:06:54] They still have to comply with fire and building code,

[2:06:57] but they don't have to go through the licensing.

[2:07:01] And this change was needed for the conversation

[2:07:03] that we are currently having with SES and the user

[2:07:06] say church about temporary overflow during cold snaps.

[2:07:11] So that's my portion of the update.

[2:07:13] And then I was going to ask Courtney,

[2:07:15] and Andy, to briefly update us core and Andy or Andy

[2:07:20] in court, whatever.

[2:07:21] or just court or just court or whatever and then have she Stewart and then Beth Daniels we've been very

[2:07:29] good. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to let Andy start off. He's going to talk about some of the things work we did over on the

[2:07:37] the West Side Hanner for Dairy etc and I'll finish up with the very good news on the bathrooms but on the bathrooms and trails.

[2:07:45] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, so we have hired a contractor who will be coming out, I did the

[2:07:54] site walk with them today, scheduled the appointment a while ago, he's been very busy,

[2:07:58] but we walked into property today, related to behind Lansing's, there's an access road that

[2:08:06] goes underneath the service wires out that way and so being able to get that off for every

[2:08:14] to have access, but no cars to access that area or individuals that would think it very difficult to do so.

[2:08:22] So that is going to be happening here in the very near a few weeks.

[2:08:27] And then we also just turn the course of the last four days.

[2:08:34] Just would be remiss to say that we have cleaned up several sites in Robin Hood Park,

[2:08:40] woodland cemetery in two in Nashville over a park and between those four sites

[2:08:45] I was 22, 2,200 pounds of trash that were brought to the transfer station.

[2:08:53] We also have done a lot of trimming along the water street to Eastern Ave.

[2:09:02] We did quite a bit of a trimming from water street to the bridge that's on the Cheshire Rail

[2:09:07] trail. The rest of the trail is definitely some areas that we're going to go back in during

[2:09:13] this slow time during December when everything else has kind of been done and take out some

[2:09:19] of the bushes and some of the clear, some of the sight lines that we know are what's needed.

[2:09:26] So our department will work alongside with public works to make that happen. We also took a look

[2:09:33] at lighting. So if we were to put it in lighting and along that section of trail, we're going

[2:09:40] to have to have a little bit of a compromise because of the canopy that's established.

[2:09:46] So in order to have solar lighting which is what's an ideal situation, you're going to

[2:09:52] need to obviously the light, we're going to need to expand some of that open space. So that

[2:09:57] will be something that we work on to make a presentation back to the city manager on to

[2:10:02] see where that wants to go before you. We have hired

[2:10:09] we've been in touch with contractors to clean up

[2:10:12] two additional sites within Nashville at River Park that are fairly remote.

[2:10:18] They have been in contact with me and we're going to be going out for a site visit

[2:10:22] next week to those locations. And as the city manager suggested,

[2:10:27] And two things, actually three,

[2:10:30] a spirit of place is definitely going to be

[2:10:33] revitalized through that process.

[2:10:36] It's certainly, certainly, has carried on.

[2:10:39] I've worked with a lot of groups over the time.

[2:10:40] We just haven't called it that initiative,

[2:10:43] but I think it's a good thing to bring back.

[2:10:46] See, click fix.

[2:10:47] We do have several signs that we just

[2:10:51] revitalize with our new logo and everything.

[2:10:53] And those will be going up along the east side

[2:10:55] and various places along our trails in our parks.

[2:10:59] So if there's a particular area that the community wants to see,

[2:11:04] these signs, we can put them out, we have several of them.

[2:11:09] So we can identify, we've identified several locations

[2:11:11] and we'll be getting those out and we just pick those up.

[2:11:15] And those will be going out here in the next couple of weeks.

[2:11:18] And also related to the community neighborhood groups

[2:11:22] often meet. The rec center is an option and we've hosted many

[2:11:27] meetings from various community groups. So just keep that in mind when

[2:11:32] folks call you and say, you know, you know, we have this group of people

[2:11:36] from our neighborhood. We want to meet and there's definitely

[2:11:41] opportunity mostly the North Central neighborhood meets at our

[2:11:45] location on a fairly regular basis. So and certainly have given space

[2:11:50] along to the east side group that just recently met.

[2:11:55] So, I'll always out there and I'd like to answer any questions

[2:11:58] if you, if you have any.

[2:12:01] Good.

[2:12:02] I think we're good.

[2:12:03] Great.

[2:12:03] Thank you.

[2:12:04] Andy did pick up on a couple things.

[2:12:06] Certainly on the trail trimming.

[2:12:08] We looked at a couple of other issues as we're going.

[2:12:10] We're going to be removing some lilac bushes that have been

[2:12:12] previously planted, particularly along the section these

[2:12:16] to have a new to Water Street the other discussion we had was our areas that we may want to look at

[2:12:22] Fencing to fence off access from the side areas. One of the challenges on all our trails, these are all

[2:12:31] rare recorders. They don't extend very far back from the top of the bank meaning that if you're on

[2:12:38] those trails you look down, there's two that's a very sharp angle down basically the cities,

[2:12:43] rights or the city ownership ends at the tolls slope, so going off in a little bit further,

[2:12:50] we noted there are a couple of areas along the trail, a number of the trails where there

[2:12:55] is activity, off it, that's all I get all on private property. We also noted that, again,

[2:13:00] this is, again, these are discussions that are going to have to have in the community. The

[2:13:03] are all other areas where trails have been created that come from the neighbor areas up onto

[2:13:08] trails, unofficially. Again, those are problematic because they also provide access for other

[2:13:15] individuals. So again, and I talked about, do we want to block those off in some way or not?

[2:13:21] But again, those are conversations that are going to need to be met because again, it's conflicting

[2:13:25] with what people have created because they want to get from their neighborhoods up on the trails.

[2:13:31] The other thing that we talked about is that there are different fields on our multi-use trails,

[2:13:36] there are different areas, and what ultimately do we want to have out there?

[2:13:41] We can clear all of the back to the top of the bank on either side, have it completely

[2:13:46] that way.

[2:13:47] But there are people who come in and they don't like that.

[2:13:49] They like to get the more closer feel.

[2:13:52] On the lighting aspect, we did talk in and look at lighting, is handy indicated.

[2:13:58] We are looking at, if we go forward, we're looking at a similar solar light system that we

[2:14:02] have on the section from Pearl Street in that area.

[2:14:06] One of the issues on the Eastern Avenue to Wall Street Trails is there is a heavy tree canopy.

[2:14:11] Again, people have like that, that's a, that has grown up over time because once the railroad stopped their clearing, that's going over time.

[2:14:18] But we're going to need to clear probably three to 500 radius around each light to be able to provide the light necessary to maintain the charge in the lights.

[2:14:30] We looked at roughly right now looking at about 400 foot intervals between lights going down that trail.

[2:14:37] That gets you about nine lights would be needed between Eastern Avenue and Water Street.

[2:14:44] Also said we're probably need two lights at the parking area there at the end of Eastern Avenue right now.

[2:14:50] There is a overhead street light nearby.

[2:14:54] But if we're going to quote unquote encourage longer hours, probably going to need there.

[2:14:59] Thanks.

[2:15:00] So, right now, we're looking at for insulation and that's something that clearing about $9,500 today's cost per

[2:15:06] light. So, you're looking at at least about $105,000 just for the lighting to go along that particular

[2:15:13] trail. Right now, that's not in the capital program anywhere. Or it's not in the operating

[2:15:16] budget anywhere that will be something to counsel with have to take a look at and decide if you want

[2:15:21] to insert either remove other projects or deal with your guidelines and what you want to do with that.

[2:15:28] The other area of the conversation needs to be occurring about as you are looking at lighting these spaces is how long do you want to do that?

[2:15:35] In discussion with other communities and other parts of the country. Lighting is a great thing, but at certain times, it flips on you because now it provides that lighting to poor activities. Maybe you don't want to have.

[2:15:49] So that's something, again, the community is going to need to talk about is, do you want to have like this time of year?

[2:15:54] Okay, you need to starting about four o'clock till about 11.

[2:15:58] Do you want to continue lighting after 11 o'clock in night or not?

[2:16:03] If you get these are all part of the conversations as you start having it.

[2:16:06] Some of our trails we are going to have issues with adjacent property owners.

[2:16:10] As we do, the eastern avenue out to Route 101.

[2:16:13] If you walk that particular section, we're basically right on people's backyards.

[2:16:19] So if you start putting lighting along those yards,

[2:16:21] We're going to be dealing with, okay, how do you make sure that you're not intruding on their space?

[2:16:28] So these are all again, conversations and that the community's going to have to take a look at.

[2:16:32] Still the thunder on the restroom? Yes, I know people are shocked at that number.

[2:16:41] There are a number of companies out there that do make it.

[2:16:43] There is the clinical Portland loop.

[2:16:45] And again, these are pre-fabricated structures which are almost indestructible.

[2:16:49] because these are ones that are made with stainless steel.

[2:16:52] They're self-cleaning, concrete, et cetera.

[2:16:56] So they are built around.

[2:16:58] There's another company out of Canada that

[2:17:00] has also gotten into the business called Urban Blue.

[2:17:03] If you look, you can look them up.

[2:17:05] They're doing some really neat ones.

[2:17:07] Primarily upper on the Quebec area, Toronto area,

[2:17:09] the GTA, that space.

[2:17:11] They run anywhere from about 385 to 45 per unit.

[2:17:17] But again, the, again, the, because what you're buying is, is you're buying reduced maintenance or reduced damage.

[2:17:25] The average, what I found out the, the average annual sort of paper water source about $12 to $15,000.

[2:17:33] So, again, along with, again, the unit, you'll be looking at at least $12 to $15,000,

[2:17:38] of annual costs for supplies plus if you staff are not many, many communities are actually

[2:17:44] staffing their public restrooms during certain periods of the day. Again, to one encourage

[2:17:50] people not to be in there for hours, because again, they are warm spaces, they provide clean

[2:17:57] up, you can clean up, etc., also to try to minimize other activities that that could occur,

[2:18:03] etc., so you'll be seeing that in the CIP as a city manager mentioned.

[2:18:07] Joe is thinking that there could be a new assistant city manager in charge of bathrooms for their portfolio.

[2:18:17] Wow, $400,000 for a bathroom. I can't imagine. But I've heard it twice now, so I'm sure it's somewhat real.

[2:18:26] Yeah.

[2:18:27] That's right.

[2:18:28] First, you should look up what the bathrooms are, of course, in the San Francisco, in

[2:18:32] just the trash bins.

[2:18:33] The trash bins are pretty close to 20,000 bucks.

[2:18:37] The first thing I want to say, thank you for cleaning the brush behind the New

[2:18:48] of your night shelter, taking out the mattresses,

[2:18:52] the alcohol routine is the whole works.

[2:18:56] When I walk into morning, it's much safer

[2:18:59] you have a nice clear line of sight,

[2:19:02] and you can make the determination

[2:19:04] if you want to walk that way, or you want to go another way.

[2:19:09] That is good.

[2:19:12] The eyelid right up the street,

[2:19:14] and there's heck of a lot more traffic

[2:19:16] get four and five o'clock in the morning because it seems that's probably when it's opening

[2:19:22] they're coming from couch surfing in other places and get ready to get in the warmth of the

[2:19:29] shelter in the morning where I have seen no problems, where didn't they're riding their bikes,

[2:19:35] they're walking the streets. So they're being good citizens. The second part is I have a concern

[2:19:45] about Eastern Avenue to Water Street.

[2:19:53] When you use that place in the summer, that canopy is a

[2:19:57] great place to go. And I don't know anybody that does not like that canopy. And so when you compare

[2:20:07] it to what people use it during the summer, the kids and everything, we may be looking at spending

[2:20:14] an awful lot of money in destroying a lot of green space, we're getting very little use out

[2:20:21] of that period during the winter months. Sometimes I go in and I walk up quite street and swing

[2:20:32] around and go by the Asheville River. We don't have lights there, and so I think because we

[2:20:41] to preserve the area. And I think we have to be careful that we don't come up with such a short

[2:20:47] term that we lose the green space and of the stuff that we really enjoy. Plus there's a lot

[2:20:55] of traffic around there and that sucks up a lot of them, exhaust from vehicles and stuff. Especially

[2:21:01] we know how busy Victoria Street can get. And finally, there are in the lace buffer and if we

[2:21:11] We want in the future to upgrade and improve the old young kids buried property if I'm on

[2:21:21] the other side.

[2:21:21] I want to hear any noise from all the cars, trucks and other activities and I don't think

[2:21:28] the city has 50 or 75 years to grow that stuff back.

[2:21:43] Okay.

[2:21:43] That's just coming up a quick question for you.

[2:21:47] If someone is reporting a situation or a builder,

[2:21:51] do they have to identify by name?

[2:21:55] To the police department, you mean?

[2:21:58] Or...

[2:21:58] If someone is complaining about a pile of couches and whatnot?

[2:22:03] No, they do take anonymous complaints in the fourth floor for...

[2:22:07] No, this is okay.

[2:22:09] They do.

[2:22:10] Yes.

[2:22:11] I'll look more quick.

[2:22:12] Just also on the C-click effects, you can be anonymous, you can give your name or you can be anonymous.

[2:22:20] Thank you.

[2:22:21] But you don't get the updates if you are anonymous.

[2:22:25] The couch is gone.

[2:22:27] Thank you, Chief.

[2:22:28] Good evening.

[2:22:28] All right.

[2:22:29] Steve Stewart, please, Chief.

[2:22:31] I just wanted to talk about a couple items that were raised out of the last meeting.

[2:22:35] The first of which was an idea.

[2:22:38] sort of create an auxiliary police force out of, you know, what are currently unspent funds for us.

[2:22:46] And that's an idea that makes sense on its face until you consider we're always looking

[2:22:52] for ways to pair duties away from sworn officers that, you know, some more minor things that

[2:22:57] wouldn't require that. And that's really occurred throughout the evolution of the police department.

[2:23:03] And the police department was first put in place.

[2:23:06] It was just really police officers.

[2:23:08] And it wasn't even until.

[2:23:11] And then people started adding a administrative support.

[2:23:14] And it went well into the 80s and nearly

[2:23:16] into the 90s.

[2:23:18] The department was using officers to dispatch.

[2:23:20] And now we have civilian dispatchers.

[2:23:23] We have more support staff.

[2:23:24] We have community service officers, animal control officers.

[2:23:28] That's sort of a thing that the police social worker

[2:23:30] position as another great example of that.

[2:23:34] So when we look at the duties that are really left, that could be sort of farmed out to a non-spawn person, there's not really a lot of those left.

[2:23:43] One area we have been able to take advantage of is using some of our retired officers as auxiliary officers, retired and so right now we have three officers who are auxiliary officers on a contract basis.

[2:23:57] One of which is retired from us, and the other two left police work to move into a different field,

[2:24:03] but they still help us out pretty significantly.

[2:24:07] So that's kind of where I wanted to go in regards to the auxiliary function.

[2:24:14] We're kind of already there and sort of maxed out with duties that could be delegated to someone else.

[2:24:22] With regard to an increase in crime on the east side or increase in undesirable activity,

[2:24:32] which was brought up to the last meeting, and I ran a report, and then I did was born

[2:24:37] out of a request from 100-night staff and board members for sort of statistics involving the area.

[2:24:46] It's not an easy thing to do, to pinpoint what activity

[2:24:52] 100 nights is contributed to and what they haven't.

[2:24:55] We can use 100 nights as a site.

[2:24:57] And all of this information just gets funneled into our dispatch system and then classified

[2:25:02] that way.

[2:25:03] So it's not 100% accurate, there's very many variables involved in all of it.

[2:25:09] So, they had a desire for more information, I ran a report using a set of factors and what I ran a few different ones, but the one that's probably the most telling is a September 1st this year to November 2nd this year compared to that same time frame last year and I ran it for the Northeast Quadra

[2:25:39] of the city, essentially. So we break the city down into four zones. So the northeast would

[2:25:46] be water street, essentially, in Main Street, north, and then south, and then over on the

[2:25:53] other side, central square, west street, north would be north, west, and then south of that

[2:25:58] south west. So I ran that water street, east of Main Street all the way up until the timeline.

[2:26:07] And there was a pretty significant increase in calls for service during that time.

[2:26:11] We went from probably, it increased by about 300 from 487 to 787 or something in that time in that ballpark.

[2:26:25] So,

[2:26:28] it's not completely apples to apples and I would encourage us to try to stay out of the minutiae of it.

[2:26:33] This is kind of 30,000 feet data.

[2:26:35] It doesn't tell us everything that we need to know, and it's not necessarily a big of anything.

[2:26:40] But it does show an increase in activity in that sort of area.

[2:26:47] You'd have to dig into a lot deeper, but I wouldn't say you're in tell you that I don't

[2:26:51] believe that the relocation of 100 nights from the south west side of the city to the northeast

[2:26:58] side of the city didn't play a factor in that I think it did.

[2:27:01] But some of the increases also are efforts in that area, by us voting more patrols and

[2:27:08] more attention to that activity, that area, that those drive up the numbers as well.

[2:27:14] Good.

[2:27:15] Questions?

[2:27:17] Committee?

[2:27:19] That's the report that law of hand gave you earlier.

[2:27:22] Come forward, please.

[2:27:28] Thank you, Martin 275, Water Street.

[2:27:30] That's the report that he's referring to is the report that Rob Ham gaved you at the beginning of the committee.

[2:27:36] You have it right in front of you.

[2:27:38] Thank you.

[2:27:39] Thank you.

[2:27:43] What?

[2:27:45] Any other questions for the Chief?

[2:27:49] Thank you.

[2:27:51] I hope.

[2:27:55] Okay.

[2:27:57] Hello.

[2:28:00] I'm Beth Daniel CEO of Southwestern Community Services.

[2:28:05] I'm also a resident of the City of King.

[2:28:08] I'm here just to talk a little bit more about some of the things that Elizabeth had brought up.

[2:28:14] I'm kind of gesturing back to my friends in the back of the room over there, that's the Serenity Center.

[2:28:20] Because I do reference them quite a bit just to kind of illustrate how important it is that the various agencies that are kind of tasked with taking some action around all of this.

[2:28:33] have an opportunity to come together and talk as a team and as a group and the Serenity Center

[2:28:39] has been amazing through that process. In addition to the needle cleanup and the other work

[2:28:45] that they're willing to do, some of us on community services does host the greater keen homeless

[2:28:52] coalition meetings. And I think over time between staffing changes at various organizations,

[2:29:00] covids, some other things, and I think, speaking of Toronto D-Center, some of the feedback

[2:29:06] that I received from them are early on, is the meetings had over the years, almost turned

[2:29:11] more into kind of a partner update group, which really didn't speak to a coalition, which is

[2:29:16] supposed to be kind of solution-focused, kind of have some projects in front of them, something

[2:29:21] tangible that they can work toward that actually has an impact at the end of the day. So so that

[2:29:26] really is the work that the group is trying to do now.

[2:29:30] We've kind of done a little bit of a pivot to say,

[2:29:33] okay, what could we do?

[2:29:35] What should we do?

[2:29:36] There's folks that usually attend from keen housing,

[2:29:39] against Renedy Center,

[2:29:40] and whatnot.

[2:29:41] Pure support, SES, all kinds of different agencies.

[2:29:44] So some of the things that have come out of that

[2:29:46] has been kind of a focus on where on this spectrum

[2:29:49] or people falling in that area of housing and homelessness.

[2:29:53] You have your folks who really will

[2:29:55] refuse to come in for, for coldness, whether you have

[2:30:00] Folks who will refuse to come in until the coldest weather. You have someone who may wish to reside in their vehicles,

[2:30:07] whether because the shelters are full and they have no choice or if they happen to have a pet, they have a vehicle, that sort of thing.

[2:30:14] And then you have folks who would absolutely go to a shelter if there was a bed available in the coldest, the coldest days.

[2:30:21] So trying to kind of look at all the different scenarios on that kind of front end of the, what we consider to be the highest risk end of the spectrum.

[2:30:29] We address all kinds of things with folks who might be experiencing housing insecurity, you know, whether that's back to rent or they need, you know, access to housing applications, that sort of thing.

[2:30:41] But when we're talking about really this acute need, which oftentimes is what neighborhood members are seeing when they're kind of out and about and they're kind of concerned, like, you know, is this individual occasion.

[2:30:52] should I be worried? Do I have to worry about my own safety? When we're talking about individuals

[2:30:57] who are experiencing that level of need, there's a different approach. I wouldn't necessarily

[2:31:04] call them solutions and call them responses, but I think we're doing our best to see what

[2:31:09] we can put in place. So one of the things we are putting into place, and Serenity Center,

[2:31:13] and that not peer support, MFS, and that not family services, self-wester and community

[2:31:19] services. What we're trying to do is put together a multi agency outreach team that has the ability

[2:31:25] to each one of them to play to their own strengths. If there's something that has to do with substance use,

[2:31:31] I'm probably going to defer to the Serenity Center. If it has to do with getting on that housing prioritization list,

[2:31:38] to get into some of our many apartments or some of the key housing locations,

[2:31:43] You know, it's going to be maybe something more that that world take on a self-western.

[2:31:48] If it's a matter of supplies, are we maximizing what we're all purchasing?

[2:31:52] Are we crossing inventories, are those sorts of things?

[2:31:56] Part of it is people become more and more concerned when they see others in a state of acute vulnerability

[2:32:03] to the point where that individual might make some choices that they feel is going to impact them negatively.

[2:32:09] So, if we can reduce that a little bit, and we can kind of at least present options to individuals who are in kind of a desperate situation,

[2:32:19] I think that that will have an effect over the many neighborhoods that we all live in and work within over time.

[2:32:26] So, that's one major effort that we're making.

[2:32:29] The overflow spaces are going to be necessary.

[2:32:32] I know that's hard to believe between the shelters that SCS runs, the temporary shelters that we started at the beginning of COVID, and we haven't closed since, and then with hundred nights opening up there space. I know it's it's probably hard to believe, but we will need overflow space, especially in the coldest months of the year.

[2:32:51] Elizabeth, the city, everyone's been working really hard

[2:32:54] to try to have some conversations with a couple of the churches

[2:32:57] and some agencies around that may have some space available

[2:33:01] in between some of the cold weather funding

[2:33:03] that we have, some of the work the city is doing,

[2:33:06] we're hoping to be able to not create a monstrosity

[2:33:09] in one spot where there's just tons of people,

[2:33:12] but to quietly have other safe places to put people

[2:33:15] on the coldest nights of the year.

[2:33:18] SCS is securing hotel spaces, additional hotel spaces, and we are definitely going to be

[2:33:25] putting out the updated volunteer training program for those who do want to engage.

[2:33:30] They want to be part of the solution, but aren't really quite sure how to go about it

[2:33:34] or what kind of tools they might need in their tool belts to be able to do that.

[2:33:38] And then we also have the Safe Parking Program in place where hoping that people will maximize

[2:33:44] that this winter as well. So it's a multi it's we're approaching it from a couple of different

[2:33:53] angles and right now our focus in terms of new programming because of course we do housing

[2:33:58] and shelters and all kinds of things but we're trying to focus on the most acute area of this

[2:34:04] spectrum first while recognizing and acknowledging that much of what we're doing is a response rather

[2:34:11] than a solution.

[2:34:12] Some of this has to do with the human condition,

[2:34:14] which is complicated,

[2:34:16] and we can't necessarily solve all of those issues,

[2:34:19] but I think with an open dialogue,

[2:34:22] meeting weekly with the city,

[2:34:24] Serenity Center, and us all meeting weekly,

[2:34:28] we're getting to real tangible solutions and outcomes,

[2:34:33] rather than kind of talking endlessly about the causes.

[2:34:36] I know that there's place for that,

[2:34:38] for advocacy and for prevention

[2:34:40] and all those things, but for right now I think the neighborhoods have talked about some acute

[2:34:45] concerns and we need to come up with some really specific tangible solutions and I think

[2:34:51] we're trying to do that and I'm saying that sincerely is kind of someone out in the field

[2:34:56] who's doing it every day and not just as a way to kind of appease anybody.

[2:35:07] It's a it's a it's a

[2:35:10] following up and kind of holding us to task and it's kept us on track. So thank you.

[2:35:17] Thank you. Questions? First, I have two things going for the same manager. I just

[2:35:27] got done spending two weeks in Japan. And so when I look at the quality of life that the people

[2:35:35] had with small living spaces. Really nice states a lot of us have houses that are really

[2:35:43] way too big and I think going towards this small houses would solve a lot of problems

[2:35:50] and make them affordable. The second part in Europe, Barry Wick, it's a gap in the morning

[2:35:59] walk. I saw about 10 homeless people in Tokyo and every single one of the homeless people were elderly

[2:36:08] people. They could no longer afford to living our homes in their homes. Right now we've been

[2:36:16] doing pretty good with subsidized housing and elderly housing and when you look at the demographics,

[2:36:25] the number of elderly women in 1665 and older and looking at what they get from Social

[2:36:34] Security, it's an old grain, a lot of just can't afford to live even in a one-on-of-a-fot

[2:36:43] place. And so we have to have elderly homeless people. We never seem to talk about them

[2:36:54] because we may be looking someone is down and out,

[2:36:57] or someone has an addiction, we have to have

[2:37:00] elderly that they just can't afford it,

[2:37:05] and they just may be too embarrassed to say anything.

[2:37:12] I don't want elderly people left out in the cold,

[2:37:16] and do we have a plan to, or people, we'd love to check

[2:37:22] and for the elderly that are at risk of losing their place to live?

[2:37:29] Yes, I think self-western is a big supporter of senior housing, family housing, and the development

[2:37:37] of additional additional housing, and we definitely have our friends over at King Housing

[2:37:41] to thank for not only all of the development that they've done, but the future development

[2:37:46] they plan on doing, because oftentimes, whether it's King Housing or Southwestern or some of

[2:37:52] partners, there's subsidized rental units, but then there's also affordable housing rental units

[2:38:00] and oftentimes those of us who offer whether it's due tax credits or any way that we've

[2:38:06] been able to do those properties, oftentimes what we're able to do is provide the housing

[2:38:10] below fair market rent, just so that it can at least be possible for somebody.

[2:38:15] But to answer your question, we're actually seeing if I were to randomly pull one of our shelves

[2:38:22] them managers out of the hallway and they were not hearing any part of this conversation

[2:38:26] and I said, what is your biggest challenge right now in the shelters other than substance

[2:38:31] use? She would probably say to me that it sometimes feels as though it's functioning as a nursing

[2:38:38] home. Yeah, that's probably the biggest issue they're dealing with right now. Yeah, because

[2:38:45] I spent four months in the nursing home and I've done my best to make sure I never go back there again.

[2:38:55] And we still have some elderly people who feel if they go in the nursing home,

[2:39:00] their life is older and not coming out unless they're on a stretch.

[2:39:05] And we don't want that. That's not a quality of life that we don't want.

[2:39:10] our retirees to be faced with.

[2:39:13] Just good, anything?

[2:39:17] Thank you.

[2:39:18] Thank you.

[2:39:20] You have anyone else in your presentation?

[2:39:24] OK.

[2:39:25] This is a public discussion.

[2:39:28] So therefore, I see a whole lot of folks there that

[2:39:31] probably want to speak.

[2:39:34] Vicki, would you like to come forward?

[2:39:36] It's a man-to-fine, and I ask you,

[2:39:42] somebody behind me.

[2:39:45] Thank you, Morton, 275 Water Street.

[2:39:47] I want to thank everyone who did an update on both the update

[2:39:50] and the work that they've been doing.

[2:39:51] I think it's really impressive, and I'm very thankful for it.

[2:39:56] What I want to share this evening goes right hand in hand

[2:39:58] with your agenda for the December 12th MSI.

[2:40:03] So here we go.

[2:40:06] The broken window theory states that visible signs

[2:40:08] of crime, anti-social behavior, and civil disorder, creating an environment that encourages further

[2:40:13] crime and disorder.

[2:40:15] The principal was developed to explain decay in neighborhoods, repairing a window as soon

[2:40:19] as possible, reduces the risk that others would be broken, picking up trash, leads to

[2:40:23] less littering.

[2:40:24] In keen, the enforcement of the city's building fire and zone codes would lead to less

[2:40:29] future infractions.

[2:40:31] Recently, we have heard from that religious of prospective buyers, you don't want to live on

[2:40:36] Cicine and a counselor, former counselor, called the residences on the Cicine inferior housing stock in the public.

[2:40:46] We, members here, have invested in our properties, our neighborhood and our city, and now we look to the city for code enforcement action to both protect that investment and to enhance it and ultimately to resolve the broken window concept in our neighborhood and our city.

[2:41:03] Construction contractor stood in our driveway, stating he was interested in the property next

[2:41:08] to us that was going up for auction, but he was concerned that he wouldn't get his investment

[2:41:12] back because of the neighbor's house that had Tyvech blowing in the wind, that Tyvech

[2:41:16] had been blowing in the wind for years.

[2:41:20] It took the city code enforcement 20 months of

[2:41:24] carat dangling, enticing and controlling to have that neighbor reinstall the sighting on

[2:41:31] on the House. Before I go any further, I need to address this, as you noted, it's a reactive

[2:41:40] response out of code enforcement. What then happened was the, a member of code enforcement

[2:41:47] informed that property owner that I was the one that had called enforcement and asked them

[2:41:53] to have the sliding put back on the House, that neighbor then appeared on my doorstep for threatening

[2:42:00] me, which led to personnel from law enforcement to come and have a conversation and to inform

[2:42:08] this gentleman that he was now my guardian angel because if anything happened to Vicki

[2:42:13] Morton, it was their doorstep that they were going to go first.

[2:42:20] It took five, so rather than having a proactive code enforcement when you have a reactive

[2:42:26] of things like that happen. People threaten neighbors, threatened neighbors. It took five

[2:42:31] months to have a 53-foot storage unit removed and still an unregistered vehicle continues

[2:42:36] to reappear at another property. I did not think that unregistered vehicles were allowed

[2:42:41] in any zone, except in auto-business, auto-related businesses. Overflowing dumpsters attract

[2:42:49] rats, mice, and raccoons, and even the bear while also allowing that trash to be blown

[2:42:54] around the neighborhood and on to our neighbors' properties.

[2:42:58] When I shared that with code enforcement that I believe that a trailer was not registered

[2:43:03] as it has a plane on it but no yearly tag, the code enforcement worker looked me right

[2:43:09] straight in the eye and said, well I don't know that it isn't.

[2:43:14] However, if that city employee had actually gone out and checked that trailer, that city employee

[2:43:20] would know whether or not it was in compliance or not.

[2:43:24] Imagine how much more code personnel could achieve and how much more the code personnel could achieve and would have time to achieve.

[2:43:40] If the sight and grievance had been remedied in two to three months, and the trailer in a couple of months,

[2:43:46] when I asked, I was told that code enforcement does not have the power to make it happen.

[2:43:51] I was also informed that even if code enforcement personnel passed violations every single day,

[2:43:57] they would not take actions unless a complaint was filed, the reactionary.

[2:44:02] That creates a total tail environment and that's not acceptable.

[2:44:06] that's not our job to tattle on our neighbors and then get threatened. It's time to remove

[2:44:12] unregistered vehicles, empty overflowing dumpsters, and require broken windows to be replaced,

[2:44:17] as well as replacing rotting and missing sighting. It's time for the city to protect our investment

[2:44:22] by seeking out the violations and remaining violations. If our codes do not provide the city personnel

[2:44:28] of the power and authority to enforce those codes and please, please, please, rewrite the codes.

[2:44:35] If the coding force and staff lack the skills to perform the jobs, then please provide them

[2:44:40] the opportunities to gain those skills.

[2:44:43] And if the matter is just not doing the job, then please provide them other career choices.

[2:44:53] Living in a city is a two-way street, two-way experience.

[2:44:56] We pay taxes, we hope that you would...

[2:45:00] Check our investment in the same city.

[2:45:04] And I will be at the December 12 meeting when we have a conversation about code. Thank you very much.

[2:45:12] Thank you. And you can see the city manager taking notes.

[2:45:17] I'm going to stop one of these days.

[2:45:20] No, no, no. What are you ready for city council?

[2:45:25] Yes, but you want to speak.

[2:45:26] Just to say, you know, thank you for reporting that Tyveck issue, that's been frustrating for everyone on the east side.

[2:45:34] It's not the only Tyveck issue around.

[2:45:37] I would like to see maybe some specific ordinance about how long Tyveck is allowed to last on a building before something else happens.

[2:45:46] Thank you.

[2:45:47] Beaver Street.

[2:45:50] I got the same answer when I called, so don't feel alone.

[2:45:55] Anyone else like to, yes, please come forward.

[2:46:02] Thank you Mr. Chairman and Josh Me in 65 Langley Road.

[2:46:08] This is going to sound like I'm complaining, so I just want to contextualize and say,

[2:46:12] I'm not complaining, this is giving an example of the issue we've been talking about this evening,

[2:46:18] concerning homelessness in the town, in the city, and particularly in this instance,

[2:46:25] the effect that the encampments are having on the neighborhoods in which they are either in or in

[2:46:33] So, I'm the director, Executive Director of Keen Housing, and I'm really speaking tonight on behalf of the 112 households that live at Harbor Acres Apartments on Castle and Ashwilet Streets, as well as the property management and main and staff who work there.

[2:46:49] As many of you know, Harbor Acres is our largest elderly disabled property.

[2:46:53] And again, the point of this is to illustrate how important it is for the collaborations

[2:47:00] in the city's efforts that we're hearing about tonight, continue to move forward and

[2:47:04] have the attention of Council.

[2:47:07] As many of you know, King Housing is actively engaged in strategies to end homelessness

[2:47:11] in King.

[2:47:13] We provide financial assistance to the domestic violence shelter in town, as well as SES's

[2:47:20] shelters, and in collaboration with the school district, we have our homes for school program,

[2:47:25] which many of you may have been reading about in the paper recently through that program

[2:47:30] or housing unhoused children and their families at Simons and Frequent Schools.

[2:47:36] And as Beth mentioned, if it's funded, each of the two phases of the Roosevelt School

[2:47:41] Project will include five permanently supportive housing units for unhoused families.

[2:47:47] so that would be an additional 10 units, specifically set aside

[2:47:51] for our house families.

[2:47:53] But I'm in this weird spot tonight,

[2:47:54] where I ordinarily am like the housing advocate,

[2:47:57] and I am that, but I'm also a property manager

[2:48:01] and an employer, and I just kind of wanted

[2:48:04] to share with you all some of the experiences

[2:48:06] that our residents and our staff have had this past summer

[2:48:10] concerning the encampment that was,

[2:48:13] that actually was already mentioned earlier,

[2:48:17] over by Ash Wheelet.

[2:48:19] I'd say around the early summer, we started to have a real preponderance of unauthorized

[2:48:26] entries into the mill buildings, and those of you who have been around long enough, remember

[2:48:29] that those mill buildings actually were taken from one part of town and placed at the end

[2:48:33] of Cassel Street, many of them before I was here.

[2:48:37] But they're beautiful buildings, and because of the fire at one of five Cassel Street,

[2:48:41] They're also the only laundry facility and community room and community kitchen for all of that property for all 112 units there.

[2:48:51] In the summertime, when we started having folks from the encampment coming in, finding their way into the mill buildings and starting to use them to cook and presumably to do laundry, but also to sleep and to use the bathrooms.

[2:49:06] And they've sustained a great deal of damage over that time.

[2:49:12] We've also discovered drug paraphernalia in the building and KPD has been kind enough to come and remove it.

[2:49:19] And we've also had some instances of people in the encampment.

[2:49:24] And I don't want to give the impression that it's the majority of people.

[2:49:27] It's a handful of people we think who have threatened our residents,

[2:49:32] right in our staff to the point where we can

[2:49:35] consider point staff out of the development entirely for a while

[2:49:38] because they didn't feel safe, but they made the choice to stay

[2:49:41] because they didn't feel like if the residents had to be there,

[2:49:44] they had to be there too and that was the choice that we made

[2:49:47] and we supported them.

[2:49:50] KPD has been really good about coordinating with our staff to issue

[2:49:53] no trespass orders to the folks that were problematic.

[2:49:59] And for our part, we pursued leasing forcement very aggressively.

[2:50:04] We did have a few residents who were contributing to the problem by allowing folks into

[2:50:09] harbour acres, buildings, with whom they had relationships.

[2:50:13] We've ordered security cameras for the back side of the building, but there's still a huge

[2:50:19] weight for things that have circuit boards in them in the surprise surprise.

[2:50:23] So our security cameras are going to be a little while before we get those in there.

[2:50:27] and we are installing in a alarm system as well.

[2:50:31] So I'm not trying to sort of pile on or suggest

[2:50:34] that the efforts at the city are undertaking

[2:50:36] in our colleagues at SCS and the rest of the service providers

[2:50:39] in town, and we're one of them,

[2:50:42] isn't effective and isn't heading in the right direction,

[2:50:47] but I just want to make sure that you will have a sense

[2:50:50] as to like, and I know I'm not the only person

[2:50:52] who's come here and talk about this,

[2:50:53] but a sense of what this is looking like on the ground.

[2:50:56] You know, and we have harbour acres, there are most vulnerable residents, there are elderly and disabled residents,

[2:51:03] people with developmental disabilities, and for them not to feel safe in their own homes,

[2:51:10] is a real problem for us, and for our staff to not feel necessarily safe.

[2:51:16] That work is also a problem.

[2:51:19] So, we are very thankful to the city and all of our partners for the work and the focus on this issue but I just want to take this opportunity again to illustrate to you all what it looks like on the ground and to encourage you to keep on with these efforts and also of course to make sure that you all know and I know that Elizabeth does and I know that Beth is too that keen housing is here to be part of the solutions as well so thank you very much.

[2:51:46] Long three minutes, but that's cool.

[2:51:48] Sorry, sorry, thank you.

[2:51:50] Thank you.

[2:51:51] She's on her plane now.

[2:51:55] Anyone else like to address the committee and address city staff?

[2:52:05] Who's up?

[2:52:06] OK, question.

[2:52:08] And then, Laura, you next.

[2:52:11] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[2:52:12] Please call it for Valley Street.

[2:52:15] Thank you.

[2:52:15] To the city manager for his chief public works for the follow-up,

[2:52:20] just a couple of quick things I was wondering about.

[2:52:22] Just a naive suggestion perhaps, I appreciate the city and the community addressing homelessness.

[2:52:30] That's, it's necessary.

[2:52:33] But I'm just concerned when you throw that into the east key in issues we are having.

[2:52:39] Homelessness is just going to take over.

[2:52:42] Only because that's, it's not a city problem.

[2:52:44] It is a nation problem and I don't think the four of you are going to be able to solve it.

[2:52:49] It's a bare for problem.

[2:52:50] So yes, address it, it has to be, but just the small issues that we've been asking to help with our image are safety separate that out, otherwise it's always going to be the discussion about homelessness and the skin is just going to get left out.

[2:53:07] That said, the light that we had requested for the back of Russell Park, I was unsure.

[2:53:17] I know it's expensive.

[2:53:20] I'm not sure if you could do like capital campaign.

[2:53:22] I'm not sure how you do that.

[2:53:24] And it's $1,000 was $1,000 when you do campaigns like that.

[2:53:29] Not sure if you can do that.

[2:53:30] So that's one thing I was wondering about.

[2:53:33] Are you appreciated the police presence in East Kine?

[2:53:35] there's been a lot on the Russell Park and the Bike Pass hope that's going to continue.

[2:53:41] The other thing we were wondering Mr. Chairman through you to the manager and the mayor has left.

[2:53:50] Would there be a possibility of constructing an ad hoc committee for his keen

[2:53:57] consisting of?

[2:53:58] Well, we can ask the incoming mayor what thoughts are?

[2:54:03] just so that we can, you know, have staff presence, perhaps a counselor, he's skin residents,

[2:54:08] there are businesses who've expressed concerns about some issues, they're expressing

[2:54:13] definitely members from 100 nights, just a thought, just thought I'll put that out there.

[2:54:21] Frank Richter, he's on Valley Street, he's under the weather, but wanted me to read this

[2:54:27] to you. He says,

[2:54:34] he's keen at a growth zone. That means actively encouraging positive

[2:54:38] economic growth and for neighborhoods doing everything they can to improve the quality

[2:54:44] of houses and not permitting development that negatively impacts our home values. That is

[2:54:51] no more variances for things like 100 nights or low income housing because East

[2:54:56] has done more than it's part in a loving that sort of development.

[2:55:01] So that's more, I mean, I know the Zoling body is quasi-judicial,

[2:55:07] but is there a way that somebody, a attorney's office,

[2:55:11] the counselor's office, that can give them some direction

[2:55:15] on maybe just slowing down these special exceptions

[2:55:18] and various variances that they keep giving out to each skin they ever had?

[2:55:24] I just, I mean, it's a residential neighborhood, you know, we would like to preserve it as such.

[2:55:29] I mean, my husband, I have lived there for 30 years and we would like to continue there.

[2:55:34] And we, you know, our property should be worth something.

[2:55:36] But when you hear things like, realtor's not wanting to sell homes in a scheme, that negatively impacts our livelihood.

[2:55:45] You know, when I'm living too.

[2:55:47] So, I mean, some advice to them.

[2:55:49] I mean, when they are giving out various variances and special exceptions is because that type

[2:55:55] of use is not allowed in a zone.

[2:55:58] Why continue to do that?

[2:56:00] And if you're going to do that, put it around the city.

[2:56:02] Well, that's not everybody else.

[2:56:03] Well, that's not everybody else.

[2:56:03] My short answer to it.

[2:56:05] I'm not on the zoning board.

[2:56:06] But I know the process is the neighbors can speak.

[2:56:12] And if they come forward as a group, I know it didn't work.

[2:56:16] But the process, such as it is, is the input from the neighbor saying, this is not appropriate, and it's pretty hard to climb over that.

[2:56:28] We did try, when one of the users was brought forward, we were told that we are not about us to be quiet, but then the support that used God from outside of the key was encouraged.

[2:56:40] So that's frustrating too, but that said that's that's like the address in the homeless problem is the bear of a problem

[2:56:46] But just keep up the police presence and perhaps like, you know, and we are trying to encourage more use on Russell Park

[2:56:54] We could never put clean up and like we can said, you know, it's prevail on some of these landlords on church street

[2:57:01] Some of those properties. I mean when we did the neighborhood clean up, and then I took church street

[2:57:06] There is garbage around dumpsters that are so frozen to the ground, you can't move it.

[2:57:12] It's just another Sanviadis landlosa.

[2:57:15] You know, those issues that are simple things that can be done to improve the quality of the neighborhood.

[2:57:20] So hopefully you'll take some of that action for us.

[2:57:24] Thank you.

[2:57:24] Thank you. Yes.

[2:57:27] So the light issue we are talking about as part of the capital program.

[2:57:33] we are looking at lights on the trails and increasing lights in different areas.

[2:57:37] So we will definitely include that and then continuing the police presence, we don't

[2:57:45] have any plans of changing the direct controls that are currently there until we see the

[2:57:52] situation dramatically improved in the concerns and complaints reduced.

[2:57:56] so we do continue to have the police presence and then you know I'm not the best person to speak

[2:58:05] about the zoning board the city attorney is way better than I am that topic but I will tell

[2:58:10] you that it is a quasi-judicial board that we do not have control over in terms of you know

[2:58:18] their decision making it is a separate board with separate authority I do know that there is a

[2:58:23] to train them when they come on board as new members, the City Attorney's Office, meets with each of them and trains them about their responsibilities and the things that they need to consider when they make a decision.

[2:58:38] But we're limited in terms of what we can do with the zoning board.

[2:58:44] And the comments about homelessness and I would throw in their substance abuse, their huge huge problems.

[2:58:50] but as I mentioned before, a lot of the things that we heard were complaints were really

[2:58:55] symptoms of the bigger issues. So it's important we work on both and we don't forget,

[2:59:00] you know, the issues that we're addressing in East Kean or any other part because East Kean

[2:59:04] is not the only area of the city we are experiencing these issues. So, you know, working on both,

[2:59:11] I think is important. And then just the last comment about committees, you know how I feel,

[2:59:16] I don't want more at-home committees.

[2:59:19] I don't have the capacity to staff them.

[2:59:21] I just don't.

[2:59:22] And so, one of that is why I offered to go to an ace-king meeting,

[2:59:30] bring staff when needed.

[2:59:31] They get something on the agenda.

[2:59:32] They want to talk about, I'm happy to attend the neighborhood

[2:59:36] association meeting, and also offer to our task force

[2:59:40] as a place for people to also not provide input,

[2:59:43] and talk about an issue that they may be having and so hopefully that is something that

[2:59:51] we can continue because while we are seeing the increase in activity and this is not an

[2:59:57] skin alone issue.

[3:00:00] I see these issues in my neighborhood. And so I think that it's important that we look systematically at the province as a whole.

[3:00:10] Good evening.

[3:00:24] My name is Timothy Jordan. I live on Water Street.

[3:00:29] Your last comment, Elizabeth.

[3:00:33] I was going to come up here and ask for a point of clarification regarding the ad hoc committee.

[3:00:40] My understanding with what I thought you had said, well, you need to take that up with

[3:00:44] J.Con.

[3:00:45] And there's a draft of the charge of this committee along the lines of all the other descriptors

[3:00:52] in the other ad hoc committees.

[3:00:55] And so I was going to come up and ask, well, who should that draft go to?

[3:00:59] Now, you just got through saying, I don't want to do any more at hot communities because

[3:01:05] I don't want to have the staff at the same time, you're willing to take your time, which

[3:01:10] is a very important time, to staff and the association, okay, so that doesn't make any sense

[3:01:18] to me.

[3:01:19] You want to explain that a little bit more?

[3:01:22] I would be happy too.

[3:01:24] I'd rather have your staff member working on this kind of thing with a ad hoc committee

[3:01:30] that have your important time as much as I like to sit at the table with you.

[3:01:34] It doesn't seem like they're very good use of your time.

[3:01:36] Yeah, thank you for that. I appreciate it. I'll try and clarify.

[3:01:40] So an ad hoc committee requires a whole bunch of things that meeting with me or a member of the staff does not require.

[3:01:47] It's a public body of the city that requires a minute take, it requires city clerks office to coordinate the minute taking services, the posting of the meetings, the coordination of the space, and typically the broadcasting, which involves the lady or people in the broadcast room, there's a lot more that's typically involved with a city at heart committee, which is why I found on them.

[3:02:16] Um, they are very important at certain times, but I think there are things that we can do quicker,

[3:02:23] um, but just having conversations with people, and that's why I offered, and I have done this in the past.

[3:02:29] It's not just me, it's members of our staff, if an association or a group has a topic of concern,

[3:02:37] court may go and get on their agenda and talk to them about it, or if it's a policing concern,

[3:02:42] the chief or someone his department would go, sometimes we would both go, would depend on it.

[3:02:47] And so it's a more strategic use of the time and it's less impactful in terms of the resources

[3:02:56] the city has to invest in holding ad hoc committees. And so, while they're important, I try not to

[3:03:07] overburden the staff with many ad hoc committees.

[3:03:11] When we might be able to do it,

[3:03:12] we'd just want to one conversation.

[3:03:15] So let me tell you how it feels

[3:03:18] like as a resident of the East Side of King,

[3:03:20] which has been neglected.

[3:03:22] Once again, it feels like, for whatever reasons,

[3:03:25] we're getting neglected again.

[3:03:27] For the reasons, all the reasons you explain

[3:03:29] in three others that we haven't even discussed yet.

[3:03:31] So that's how it feels.

[3:03:33] I'm not saying that's how it is.

[3:03:34] I'm saying that's how it feels.

[3:03:37] So what we were trying to do, we've had,

[3:03:40] and I should say, before I go any further that,

[3:03:43] the work, all the work that your staff has done

[3:03:46] over the last few weeks has been an exemplatory.

[3:03:49] I mean, you had clear reports today.

[3:03:52] People were on it.

[3:03:54] They understood what the problems were.

[3:03:55] Thank you.

[3:03:57] So it seemed like with this ad hoc committee

[3:04:01] that that would be a way of taking the neighborhood

[3:04:03] concerns have a small group, funnel it to you, and have information go back and forth in a way

[3:04:10] that would facilitate not burdened. You're telling me it's a burden. That's what you're telling

[3:04:17] me. Yeah, I mean, I'm telling it requires additional resources, and that, and I mean, I think

[3:04:25] I'm offering you something better. That's direct access to us to be honest, because ad hoc committees

[3:04:32] require a lot of different things and I thought by offering your ability to attend either

[3:04:41] one of our task force meetings or for us to attend your association meetings when you have

[3:04:45] a topic that you want to discuss with us that that was actually more helpful. But I can

[3:04:51] understand that you don't feel that way and I apologize if you feel it's a we're sliding

[3:04:55] even some way.

[3:04:57] Well, I don't know that I feel that way, but I feel I just feel like that there's

[3:05:06] I feel neglected, okay?

[3:05:10] And I'm sorry that I feel neglected at the moment because up until just a few minutes

[3:05:15] ago I say this is great.

[3:05:17] We've been attended to folks who are taking it and now on a simple request,

[3:05:25] and is it your

[3:05:25] is it the mayor's decision?

[3:05:28] Yeah, so the mayor can create ad hoc committees.

[3:05:32] It's my decision on terms of staffing.

[3:05:35] But if the mayor creates an ad hoc committee,

[3:05:38] we will figure out a way to make it work,

[3:05:41] but we may not be able to have as much staffing at the meetings

[3:05:44] as it depends.

[3:05:46] Is there another form of where perhaps staff person

[3:05:52] could be assigned as a liaison to the committee.

[3:05:56] Don't call it ad hoc, because that seems to trigger all matter of that.

[3:06:00] Apparently.

[3:06:01] I mean, that's what it is.

[3:06:02] It's a city structure.

[3:06:03] I'm not making that turn.

[3:06:04] No, I don't.

[3:06:06] But I think that if there was a city staff person who was at liaison to your organization, you

[3:06:13] get the same place with that.

[3:06:14] Well, I tell you what.

[3:06:15] Why would I want a city liaison?

[3:06:17] Instead of, let's say we don't have an ad hoc committee.

[3:06:20] Why wouldn't want a city liaison when I can have the city manager?

[3:06:24] I'm fine.

[3:06:24] I mean, what I mean?

[3:06:27] You know, so what I want to know is, I want to be clear on what's a, some of the,

[3:06:34] I want to be clear on how to have this, for lack of a better term, your word, association.

[3:06:42] How do we do that?

[3:06:44] Okay, so you mean how to engage?

[3:06:47] Yeah, how to manage.

[3:06:48] What is it? Let's say we got to say on next Tuesday we want a bunch of folks from Mesa

[3:06:52] IT want to get together and we got three agenda items. What do we do?

[3:06:56] Contact my office and tell me what the three agenda items are so that we know who we

[3:07:02] might need to have at the meeting and then we just coordinate that way. That's how I've done

[3:07:07] it in the past. You know we typically need some notice because it depends on the time and

[3:07:14] of the meeting so that we can make sure someone is able to attend.

[3:07:19] All right, well, we'll try that out then.

[3:07:21] I mean, it's worth giving it a shot if you're okay with that instead of the additional burden

[3:07:26] of creating the structure that comes along with an ad hoc committee.

[3:07:30] And if it doesn't work, you know, it's good to the mayor and say, I still want an ad hoc committee.

[3:07:34] I don't, I don't see it's an additional burden, but I don't, I mean, I'm a quibble of a word

[3:07:38] to the other.

[3:07:39] That's an issue that you have, not an issue that I have.

[3:07:42] additional use of resources. Yes. Thank you. And then also you can pass on to one, two, three

[3:07:48] counselors when these things are going on. Yeah. Okay. That would help. Thank you. Yes, Laura. Please.

[3:08:04] Laura Tobin Center Street. I don't live in East Kean, obviously. I took a walk over there

[3:08:13] the other day and just to kind of, I want to say that it took me six months to get the

[3:08:24] to get the people who were not, who were dealing drugs basically, it took six months

[3:08:29] of phone calls to get that addressed.

[3:08:34] And so I part of that I want to say is that I think I wasn't providing the right information that the police needed to respond to what I was saying.

[3:08:50] And I think one thing that could be really helpful is at some point just to kind of hear from the police.

[3:08:57] I think, you know, they do their job efficiently and also, they might overlook what, the things that are obvious to them are not necessarily obvious to me that reporting a guy over there is not going to help them actually do anything about that.

[3:09:18] And so when I would get on the phone, I wouldn't have answers to the questions they were asking.

[3:09:24] So that could be one thing that was really helpful.

[3:09:27] I also took a walk over to East King and just to kind of see what it was like over there.

[3:09:37] How it had changed, I guess.

[3:09:39] And I met a woman who had mentioned a couple of obstacles in terms of getting housing and how she had lost her housing and while I understand this may not be addressing the crime in the area specifically the fact that people aren't moving out of that housing I would say is definitely a factor.

[3:10:09] So what she had said a couple of the challenges were basically that she couldn't get, she didn't

[3:10:17] have the paperwork to get an ID because her paperwork was taken.

[3:10:21] So she needed, she support in that.

[3:10:24] She had gotten evicted from her apartment for what I would have interpreted as retaliation

[3:10:32] for reporting a, you know, violation basically,

[3:10:41] and the other thing she mentioned that was

[3:10:44] really interesting was that she had paid application fees for apartments, and I also want

[3:10:53] to say none of these things, this is not the first time I've heard any of these things from

[3:10:58] people in this area, or that they haven't happened to me. The other thing she said was that

[3:11:04] apartments say that they are renting. They take the application fee and then don't rent.

[3:11:12] So people end up paying an application fee. I looked at one company in the area was 25, sorry,

[3:11:19] $25 per person. So if you have a handful of couples that are renting, that are trying to

[3:11:26] department, they're all paying $50 to a company and they don't even need to show them the apartment.

[3:11:36] So that's non-refundable and it's an incentive to not rent the apartment to other people,

[3:11:43] basically, because you can get $500 a day if you don't rent it.

[3:11:51] And just kind of finally, I think that what this woman said and what I have heard from other people is that they don't go to the city because they, to kind of report even some violations or things that they're struggling with.

[3:12:14] because I think they see it as total tailing and they see their landlords as a friend.

[3:12:21] So I think that one thing we could be doing is just kind of helping to educate people that

[3:12:28] we want to know that it's important for us to know this information and this is how we can use

[3:12:35] it to help you. So I think that's about it. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else

[3:12:43] I'd like to address the committee this evening about these side issues and such

[3:12:50] committee, can I think?

[3:12:52] Well, what's your next meeting again, December 1st?

[3:12:58] And that will be the big community development discussion.

[3:13:06] It's not code enforcement anymore, it's community development.

[3:13:10] It's a very nice and crisp motion to accept as informational perhaps.

[3:13:15] Make a motion to accept as an additional.

[3:13:18] Second.

[3:13:18] Motion's made in seconded anything from the public further.

[3:13:24] All in favor.

[3:13:26] Final motion.

[3:13:27] All in favor of Thanksgiving.

[3:13:30] Okay, thank you all for coming.

[3:13:33] And I thank the staff for attending.

Municipal Services Facilities and Infrastructure Committee Meeting

Agenda

Transcript