[0:12] Kingston Springs Regional Planning Commission meeting is now in

[0:16] session uh R call of voting members Keith Al good present Tony Thompson

[0:21] absent Tony gross here Mike harus here Lauren Hill here Mike Paton Craig kit

[0:28] Maurice bafford here Bob doer here Sharon Armstrong here Peter kimra is

[0:34] here by request only John laws here we have

[0:40] qu we have a motion to approve the March 14 Planning Commission meeting minutes

[0:45] so moved second all in favor I those

[0:50] opposed motion carries motion to approve uh April 11 2024 Planning Commission

[0:56] meeting agenda Madam chairman I have a correction on item 10 under new

[1:02] business okay on towards the end of the paragraph after Zone feema n fpx Zone

[1:09] everything after Zone needs to be stricken from the record it's a leftover

[1:13] from last month okay so property located in FEMA nfx Zone recommend yeah

[1:19] everything regarding right okay we have motion to

[1:24] approve that change I believe motion motion to

[1:30] second motion made in second all in favor say I I those

[1:35] opposed okay thank you now motion to approve minutes as agenda for the April

[1:40] 11 Planning Commission approve second all those in favor those

[1:49] opposed the agenda is approved Community

[1:54] input which is public comments shall be limited to 3 minutes for all regular

[1:59] agenda items and items removed from the agenda and all and an overall time limit

[2:04] for all comments on agenda items to 10 minutes unless extended by vote of the

[2:08] majority of the Planning Commission the chairman shall limit

[2:12] comments to the agenda items to relevant comments and shall restrict comments

[2:16] that are disruptive in nature do we have anyone here that wishes to provide

[2:21] Community input okay please come forward and state

[2:24] your name and where you live

[2:31] my name is Bill Rogers I'm at 1660 South arith Road uh and I'd like to comment on

[2:38] the uh item 10 uh it that needs to be commented now and not after item 10 is

[2:45] discussed I assume that's F sir what what are your comments okay uh this is

[2:51] of course of

[2:55] rezoning if if I may I'm sorry I apologize to Mr Rogers and to the

[2:59] chairman of the board they're allowed on an agenda item they comment during the

[3:04] meeting public comments are oberved for things that are not on the agenda so if

[3:09] it's an agenda item it's presented and then they're allowed to comment during

[3:13] that time because it's on the published agenda okay so it's not during well if

[3:19] if that's my apolog if I'm incorrect occurs during the meeting because all of

[3:24] that gets captured um sometimes you'll come in and want to talk about things

[3:28] that aren't on the agenda that's what the public comment is for so this it

[3:32] comes up on the agenda Therefore your comments we'll discuss this when we get

[3:37] to item 10 been proposed that's what my understanding was too okay my apologies

[3:42] I do have another uh besides item 10 all right sir uh and I've commented about

[3:48] this before about uh South Hari Road uh Kingston Springs needs to put some

[3:57] signs out there on bumps caution uh dangerous area we're we've got areas the

[4:04] size of this room that people are bumping across mud on uh I know we've

[4:08] had at least two cars go off in the ditch uh we're a very dangerous

[4:12] situation there and I don't know we've been working on this for three years I

[4:17] guess on the road and I know Mrs Armstrong has got is working on this

[4:21] with one of other addendum items uh but I would just like to bring up the fact

[4:26] that please uh if we can get some caution sides out there before somebody

[4:32] really gets hurt thank you thank you

[4:36] sir do we have any any other comments on items that are not going to be discussed

[4:41] during the course of our meeting okay Community input is

[4:49] closed Declaration of conflict in the event that any member shall have a

[4:52] personal interest of any kind in a matter before the Kingston Springs

[4:56] Municipal Regional Planning Commission he or she shall disclose their interest

[4:59] conflict of interest is defined in the municipal code Title 1 chapter 4 section

[5:04] 1-42 through Section 1-04 are there any conflicts none we'll move

[5:11] forward old business ERS Le PUD consideration of approval of amended

[5:16] grading plans yes ma'am thank you if you'll remember staff was allowed to

[5:21] review the grading plans in order to inhibit any further damage on the elders

[5:26] Le property due to the spring rain so the city engineer vetted the plans I

[5:32] looked at the plans in your packet directly behind the minutes which is uh

[5:38] from last month is the plan the drainage calculation and the revisions that it

[5:45] went through um with their engineer and our engineer we then vetted them and

[5:50] they were issued a permit to continue the grading at that point uh we asked

[5:56] for permission which is a rare thing for staff to do the review and allow the to

[5:59] move forward so that with the rain that's occurred between now when the

[6:03] plans could come back here would not further inhibit U the residents so those

[6:08] are in your packet and formal approval by the Planning Commission is

[6:13] required so there're they're meeting our requirements they do uh the city

[6:19] engineer signed off on them about five weeks ago so with the last set of

[6:24] revisions to recalculate the drainage to the road because it's still showing

[6:29] water blowing over West Kingson Springs Road with the previous set of

[6:34] calculations I have looked at it to make sure that it includes a note on it that

[6:39] they have to scope the sewer lines because of the previous incident that we

[6:44] had they have worked through all of their issues with second South cheetah

[6:47] second South cheetah did the repair design and execut it the developer did

[6:52] not so everything has been resolved at this point we can't guarantee this is

[6:56] going to fully address all the runoff because sometimes with the topography

[7:01] it's kind of trial and error so uh but uh the city engineer is very comfortable

[7:07] with these plans and it's been a great that we them

[7:14] asend make a motion we approve second motion to approve and second is there

[7:19] any further discussion all those in favor say I I

[7:24] opposed motion passes okay uh uh Golf Course Tennessee

[7:31] update on maintenance facility proposed site plan performance bond requirements

[7:34] for construction damage to South harpi Road the Country Club Road within the

[7:39] city limits of the town of Kingston Springs uh soil and erosion issues

[7:43] reported by Mimi Rose consideration of approval for

[7:48] performance bond for repairs to South parp

[7:51] Road um since our last meeting we advised um Planning Commission that we

[7:56] were determining the linear foot cost for the temporary repaving and repair of

[8:03] South harp road because before everybody was taking the detour the bridge was not

[8:08] in now they're taking they're turning out and going across the new bridge and

[8:13] there's a lot of damage to um South harpi Road all the way up to CC road so

[8:20] the golf club has been made aware of that they have been provided by the city

[8:24] engineer the per linear foot cost uh were still or not negotiate having

[8:30] discussions with them we would like them to from the city limits all the way to

[8:34] CC road because that's where the damage is occurring there's still a great deal

[8:38] of dumb truck and occasionally semi TR uh traffic coming in and out of there

[8:44] the build out for that particular area for the maintenance facility and the new

[8:49] office building is going to be at least another 6 to n months uh they're still

[8:54] working through an easement agreement with the DOR property because they don't

[8:57] directly but at the maintenance facility location South Harvard Road so we've

[9:03] advise them that the regulations require permanent Perpetual easement agreement

[9:09] with the maintenance between the two of them um at that location with a rough

[9:14] tape measure it's 17 FT 1 and 3/4 in of width when the dumb trucks are turning

[9:20] out they're exceeding the pavement uh they're plowing ruts on both sides

[9:26] they're also crossing the ditch from that location which is stopping it up

[9:30] they're doing a pretty good job of keeping that cleaned out but as they get

[9:34] to the bridge the bridge of but the approach to the bridge is much wider

[9:37] than the road and so the damage from the dump truck that's starting to degrade

[9:42] the concrete at the bridge location so they're aware of all of these things um

[9:48] those discussions are ongoing the uh city has determined the linear foot cost

[9:54] and the length of the road that needs to be repaired this will not be a permanent

[9:58] resurfacing because it's pointless to completely to

[10:02] do the improvements that will be required if the Planning Commission

[10:05] approves the new site plan with the In-N-Out driveway uh if you if you

[10:10] approve that then it will require them to widen that road because it's just not

[10:16] wide enough for that heavy traffic going in and out of there and I would U ask

[10:20] that the Planning Commission if you have time it's a short drive now that you

[10:24] like to go around go by cross the bridge once you come off the other stop get out

[10:29] and take a look at what you're seeing so it at the

[10:33] minimum depending on what the traffic study brings they have 65 parking spaces

[10:38] going in there that facility will serve not only the greens maintenance at that

[10:43] location for both golf courses it will also um for Turf maintenance staff

[10:50] parking will be there for a number of other operations and the office staff

[10:55] they're building a new office location there so with that many vehicles coming

[10:59] in and out there's also a proposed connection from the back of the

[11:02] maintenance facility to DBI from that location that's closer to South harith

[11:09] Road than it is to coming in at the golf club primary entrance so um increased

[11:15] traffic um at the minimum the road needs to be widened because it's not real safe

[11:21] in that location and it's just not I that's a permanent request for them

[11:26] deliveries will go in that back door uh for large truck delivery to serve the

[11:32] clubhouse the country club the pro shop so it'll be an ongoing thing and then

[11:38] the increased traffic on that road for people that maintain the greens so

[11:43] widening will be necessary the regulations required it meets the the

[11:47] minimum number of parking spaces and increased traffic to cause that to

[11:52] happen so that'll be in phase two if the side plan is improved but my advice to

[11:57] the Planning Commission would be to hold off on that until the construction is

[12:02] complete because if you pave it permanently now you're just going to

[12:07] have to PVE it again so are there any questions on that section of

[12:12] it okay so and erosion they have had and I know they dislike it but it's the

[12:18] language on their epsc reports from their site person there been two solid

[12:24] erosion and St water failures uh in the last several weeks both resulted in

[12:29] complaints from adjacent Property Owners uh I asked Mr Hooper the engineer to

[12:36] share with us what caused um those failures whether something just laid

[12:41] down a wire a fence what happened and he said on the first incident they were

[12:47] unable to determine what the cause or the source was but the water went into

[12:51] the Cur or the dirt went into the creek sold it and into the river

[12:56] Beyond both times um they're having a little bit of trouble stabilizing three

[13:01] of the holes on the top of the ridge my assumption is since it's next

[13:06] to the Ravine on the property which then feeds into the creek that's most likely

[13:11] uh the source of failure so I've asked them to revisit that I've also reminded

[13:16] them that if we have multiple incidences of this that a stop

[13:22] will be issued until they repair the so and erosion control so I don't want to

[13:26] do that but we have to address the issue right so that's all we had is just an

[13:31] update there's no action to be had okay any other comments

[13:39] re okay uh discussion of sidewalks from the

[13:43] ERS be PUD to downtown Kingston Springs an update yes ma'am as you know this is

[13:49] a standing item until some till we're done with um the review and the

[13:55] consideration I've had a conversation with a condo of HOA they are now um

[14:01] they've asked last week for me to get an item to their board so they can consider

[14:05] it their HOA board to connect it from there so and I was assigned to end that

[14:12] comes off of phase one through and ends up next to Turnbull down here so that

[14:17] was my end of it um so I have already spoken to we've spoken with the

[14:22] developer met with him he was um amenable to coming across there um

[14:29] we will likely require them to put the utilities in a culvert as it goes down

[14:35] the side boundaries so that we don't have any damage to anything on on

[14:38] utilities on that edge and then from there it would go to the condo

[14:44] association uh Mr Francis I placed a couple phone calls to Mr Francis who

[14:49] owns the rental house adjacent to Turnbull but it's a shorter path um less

[14:56] money we don't have to acquire right away if Mr Francis agrees to allow the

[15:02] sidewalk to run in front of his rental property then there won't be any cost to

[15:06] acquire property to run the sidewalk so they would be able to walk from ellersly

[15:10] all the way to right down here and come out there so

[15:15] that's just an update that's as far as we've got okay thank

[15:21] you okay uh 9d Roy B mcferson The Willows 129 East Kingston Springs Road

[15:28] Cor Grill update yes I think everyone received a letter yes um I'm not going

[15:36] to characterize the letter um I would like to stick to the facts this board in

[15:42] November of last year because of a complaint we had two

[15:47] complaints um with the type of fill going on the property and the excess of

[15:53] the grading plan that was approved by almost an acre so that was brought here

[15:59] the Planning Commission approved expanding the grading permit they then

[16:04] had to expand their plans with Tac in order to remedy that um they were given

[16:10] a soul map which you approved um a core map for drilling and a report was

[16:16] required to be submitted staff engineer and I for review and then to come to

[16:21] this body with that review we still do not have a copy of that core report so

[16:26] the gist of the complaint is that stop work order is still in place we can't

[16:31] lift it until we know what's in the soul and until we get the compassion from the

[16:35] report so since the report has not been furnished we're kind of between a rock

[16:41] and a hard place the second item that was asked for was reconsideration of the

[16:45] approval of the development plan we can't get to the development plan until

[16:50] we solve the problem with the grading plan because one feeds into the other so

[16:55] the letter did not come in time to advertise

[16:59] um that agenda item it came after advertising the agenda was advertised

[17:04] and published in the paper but it will be on your agenda for next

[17:08] month okay so any questions anybody has be we requested the core pardon in

[17:17] November we requested them to sample the soil and do the cord drill in November

[17:21] that is correct that has that been completed it has been completed um then

[17:26] why don't we have why don't we have a copy of it I have no idea

[17:29] I I don't know how to answer that question um I was informed by the

[17:33] geotechnical engineering firm that it was completed and a copy was provided to

[17:38] the applicant okay it just has not been

[17:41] furnished to the city so we can't move forward until we have any of this that

[17:44] is correct we we don't know what's there now so we don't know how to move forward

[17:50] and that is provided okay any other comments questions oh he has he been

[17:56] told that that he needs to provide has he been told that he needs to bring that

[18:01] multiple times U when I advised him um of this meeting and the fact that we

[18:08] couldn't wasn't advertised so we couldn't as a body make a decision we

[18:12] can't make a decision anyway if we don't have those results he has been advised

[18:15] that it needed to be provided he was advised right after I first learned that

[18:20] the cordal report was done um he was advised again 3 weeks after that okay

[18:27] advised again all right so they're aware that uh they seem to be a couple of his

[18:33] professionals seemed to be surprised that we had not received it and so we

[18:39] had a request from his civil engineer not not the Geotech engineer the civil

[18:44] engineer that did plan set and his question was have you received it no we

[18:49] have not so until we get that at this point we can't take okay all right that

[18:56] ends that discussion okay um new business recommendations by the

[19:00] town of Kingston Springs City commission requested rezone for the property

[19:05] located at 795 South harpi road map 100 parcel 00

[19:12] 011.0 from agricultural District to R1 low density residential district for the

[19:17] purpose of subdividing the property property located in FEMA nfip X

[19:24] zone so I'm going to lay the framework for this request in your packet you have

[19:28] an application from the county um and for the new members I'm going to have to

[19:33] walk you through this briefly during the original growth

[19:37] planning process that occurred in 1999 through

[19:41] 2000 Kingston Springs and chetam County entered into an agreement that if a

[19:47] property lay within the growth boundary of the town of Kingston Springs you

[19:52] would become the recommending body to the chetam County Commission on resoning

[19:58] questions in that circumstance we are required by the contractual agreement

[20:03] approved by the state to use their zoning

[20:07] ORD if the property is then approved for resoning and a subdivision request is

[20:14] then made it comes back to this Planning Commission and we have to use our

[20:19] subdivision regulations in order to vet the subdivision proposal so for those of

[20:26] you that are somewhat familiar with this if you reach back a couple of years it

[20:30] creates complications for us because in the county they allow things to be

[20:36] developed U I'll give you an example flood areas they allow you to construct

[20:40] in a flood are we do not so sometimes those two documents their zoning

[20:46] ordinance and our separat don't need in the m so that was one complication the

[20:52] other is we had within our growth plan to Ranch

[20:55] ads we were visiting a hardship on this people the subdivision was done a really

[21:00] long time ago build out there are multiple houses multiple lots a very

[21:07] large subdivision and then after it was built out the county assigned an E1 3

[21:12] Acre minimum zoning overl the lots are built out so if they

[21:18] wanted a shed a pool they had to come to us for a recommendation to reone to an

[21:24] area that would allow it sort of put a burden on people and in the process in

[21:30] this particular case this is relatively undeveloped

[21:34] land currently has one residence on it the land that's being considered here

[21:41] tonight the proposal is to have a relatively small lot and a slightly

[21:46] larger lot the chetam county regulations for agriculture we do not have a purely

[21:51] agricultural Zone in the city we're Urban but in the county you have to have

[21:57] an a 4 acre minimum if you have public water in an agricultural zone 5 acre

[22:04] minimum if you don't have public water and the the original goal of that is if

[22:10] you have a well if you don't have public water you have a well was to separate

[22:14] the septic system take into account topography and other issues water table

[22:20] from uh your septic system being separated from your water source so um

[22:26] that rule is in place the county recently updated their zoning ordinance

[22:29] they don't have a specific lot requirement in anything other size

[22:35] requirement in anything other than agricultural so now they kind of look at

[22:40] it on a caseby casee submission to determine whether the lot is adequate so

[22:45] that's the basics of that the request um I have a couple of observations they're

[22:52] requesting to reone the entire

[22:56] parcel my concern is we have three lots that are proposed and you can see them

[23:01] on the map here and then behind that is a Subdivision plat and I'm sure that the

[23:06] drafter is here and the owner is here so they can better answer these questions

[23:11] but I have in front of you it's kind of hard to see John can we put that up on

[23:17] the screen we can't okay we can't put it on the screen so you have the lot next

[23:21] to the road and then you have two more lots and there's a space in between

[23:26] adjacent to this property lies The Golf Club of

[23:29] BBI U just for informational purposes nothing within this the smaller Creek is

[23:35] not at a mat blood area that came about during the last time your mats were

[23:39] updated in 2016 and adopted in 2018 so the request my reservation and

[23:46] my recommendation to the Planning Commission because we don't know what

[23:49] the purpose is for the rest of the vacant land which is I

[23:56] believe the whole track is 19.21%

[24:28] faith that that's why most of the residents have joined us tonight and

[24:32] everybody will be given a time to respond Mr Su so again the last email

[24:39] that I got was a request to rezone recommend we don't rezone we're

[24:44] just recommending to the county the entire parcel so if Mr Summers has

[24:50] information that's different from that we'll be happy to hear

[24:54] it so that's yes please how many minutes do I get right there

[24:59] how many minutes do I get two and a half uh Just for information purposes and

[25:05] help me I'm not trying to rezone the whole place I'm I'm sorry Mr Su you're

[25:09] going to have to the application that was filed indicates that they okay well

[25:14] that was incorrect and well so you're the let's clarify you're the owner of

[25:19] the property sir yes I I am Scott Summers and I'm glad to be here in a

[25:22] less contentious manner I haven't met you yet but thank you I'm H DBI and our

[25:27] like but anyway I love them right but anyway um

[25:32] Mr Summers you'll have to address them her commission instead of the audience

[25:37] help me here I didn't all I was trying to do was get zoning

[25:41] almost three correct I want to keep that in a green belt that's why we kept it at

[25:46] 15 Acres excellent okay in my long-term goal this is all okay let me just start

[25:54] here uh this is all about a family here okay I'm trying to create a family

[25:58] compound okay I have a myself my son and my daughter my son's here uh my

[26:05] neighbors uh and I want to thank my neighbors those of you who did call me

[26:10] this was a great time to catch up with the neighbors okay so for or against it

[26:14] was good talking to you but uh I'm just trying to create three spots

[26:21] along that road there U and that's that's the only request that you have to

[26:25] be changed from agricultural to R1 of those three that is and that little

[26:31] point 4 Acres that I want I don't care what it is yeah it can be out coach I

[26:35] just want DBI to buy it it's it's useless to me

[26:38] anymore and I just wanted to Plat on it if they would be kind enough to buy it

[26:42] it's worthless to me anymore um but the three lots uh I have son and a daughter

[26:49] the two acre lots for my son Judy's here she would be the neighbor to that uh

[26:55] I've talked to Salem and they would love Mike would be their neighbor the other

[26:58] one's for my daughter uh they will share that driveway that's what that two

[27:03] pieces is uh the third piece I want to create a

[27:07] piece for me to die in okay I want to build a little cottage there I just

[27:11] buried my father my mom probably get well it's he was 102 okay and he lived

[27:19] until the last four days of his life other than he had a helper taking care

[27:22] of him and and a wife and I mean that's what I seek okay I don't want to live in

[27:26] an old folks home my moms in an Alzheimer Center I

[27:30] pay unbelievable 100 Grand a year for her to be there I I can build a house

[27:35] for that and I want to build it accessible for me and a wheelchair and a

[27:39] bed and an extra bedroom for an attendant to live and take care of me a

[27:45] nurse whatever you want to call it so so to simplify what we were looking at

[27:49] we're simply what we're looking at is those three those three lots are all

[27:52] you're requesting that's correct that's what I'm goinging 15.2 at all none n

[27:58] that's great I appreciate your clarification understand that yeah and

[28:02] and it's not for me to sell I I'm I want to put that 15 acres in a family trust

[28:07] that can never be sold okay uh I'm probably the senior other am I the

[28:11] senior citizen in the valley who's the oldest one you or

[28:15] me Jasper that's

[28:21] right but anyway I just I'm not here to and you did actually get more than three

[28:26] minutes oh am I done okay um there's no limit on this

[28:33] I but thank you and y' do y'all have any questions about

[28:37] it I had no idea i' stir up this much uh controversy

[28:43] on no that's makes it very simple it was submitted from your representatives

[28:50] that's correct and and and that's just miscommunication with us they want the

[28:54] whole thing res so for the purposes of tonight's meeting in consideration we're

[29:01] going to have to resubmit get his no not resubmit okay um because it's not on the

[29:08] plat that way it's just in the application and the discussion that went

[29:14] back into between your folks and the county so we'll have to get his

[29:21] consent or he is going to have to resubmit we'll have to get his consent

[29:26] to only consider the three Lots now and that's correct that is all I'm

[29:32] seeking consent do we just ask do do we have your consent you have my consent

[29:38] that's all I'm seeking do these three lots exist at the moment or is is this

[29:42] all a concept or or do these three lots exist at the moment it's a concept it's

[29:46] a concept so so these three lots have to exist first right they don't exist right

[29:52] now well it's a double-edged sword and they they've got the perk first and

[29:55] that's going to be the next situation they may not not even per and I may not

[29:59] this way issue I think that the thing that we consider is not not just intent

[30:03] but capability you know and what what we're doing what it provides the

[30:08] opportunity to do so just make sure we're doing this exactly how we need to

[30:12] do it because I I do understand that these things need to be subdivided and

[30:15] things of that nature before that can be considered that's correct this this is

[30:19] just all we are doing here is making a recommendation we making a

[30:21] recommendation the county for the resoning from agriculture through for

[30:26] these specific areas right and you agree to that 100% I agree

[30:33] all right that's what we need thank you thank you the other thing for the

[30:36] Planning Commission to consider as we've discussed in resoning within the city

[30:41] once you rezoned to R1 within this agricultural area which

[30:47] the county does really frequently it started out because people when they

[30:53] borrowed money from the Farm Credit Service or got a mortgage they didn't

[30:56] want to mortgage their house along the farm so they would ask to

[31:01] subdivide that one acre out with house on it so that it didn't become a part or

[31:07] they didn't want to mortgage the farm in order to build the house that's where it

[31:11] generated but there are literally hundreds of these in the county now

[31:17] probably thousands of these where you'll see these little one acre spots in the

[31:20] middle of a sea of agricultural land but it does open up an area that is now

[31:27] purely agricultural to that but for the purposes that he States and you're going

[31:32] to put this in a conservation the

[31:36] ran it's yeah it's going to stay in the green belt it's in right now do that you

[31:40] can do that put it in the green belt Mr it's in the green probably help you out

[31:45] with it no it's in a green belt now I'll have to pay currently is in Green Belt

[31:49] it currently is right now have you contacted the property assessor to

[31:53] determine what you have to do next when you take these out oh yeah you got to

[31:57] pay back taxes on yeah uh well you still have 15 Acres 15 acres is the minimum

[32:04] that's correct that is correct so he has 15 remaining Acres that will remain in

[32:09] but these three have to be removed and reclassified for taxation purposes

[32:12] correct that's correct yeah yeah and I'll owe everybody some

[32:17] money you you said you said you wanted to serve this

[32:23] with just one road the two pieces the one and the two two that's just one

[32:29] driveway okay the county has some peculiar oh and I've talked to Robert

[32:34] about with how they do private well and just so you know they're the county is

[32:39] coming in and taking that bridge out once we get all these other Bridges

[32:43] fixed uh that one's coming up perect and it Road's going to be straight and

[32:48] Robert's aware that I want to put a driveway there cuz you got to get enough

[32:52] line of sight there but that curve is going to be gone too so that's what say

[32:56] I'm just adding One Drive driveway to the to the again we appreciate your

[33:01] clarification when you're ready to subdivide if this is approved by them

[33:06] you will have to come back to this body to subdivide not the county that's

[33:10] correct every everything is I understand that come back to here decision I've

[33:15] learned a lot in this process we need to make a we need to

[33:20] make a motion he would like to speak he would

[33:24] like to speak I use Podium go get them

[33:31] than okay this this this all sounds really good and Scott is your name my

[33:37] name is Bill Rogers 1660 South offer Road thank you that's my wife you get

[33:41] you guys in a marriage you know corrected so uh uh you know Scott's

[33:47] making this sound like a family deal uh and I'm sure it

[33:51] is but the neighbors are very concerned about

[33:56] setting a president here in our area from the city limits of Kingston Springs

[34:03] to Davidson County Line there are 27 Property

[34:07] Owners there are approximately 25 property owners in web Bridge Road and

[34:11] Forest Road there are another eight property owners in Anderson Road this is

[34:16] the area that our neighborhood association is concerned with and and we

[34:22] try to keep each other involved in this so it's not a lot of people and not a

[34:27] lot of property in that particular area there is not one piece of property in

[34:33] all of that that is one acre

[34:38] except down right on the city limits of Mr Kell Moore's property he no longer

[34:42] owns it I don't think he's in the process of selling it back in 2021 he

[34:47] had it rezoned he had a 5 acre track he had one acre broken off of that and

[34:54] reson well if yall will remember 2021 we were right in the middle of we couldn't

[34:59] uh uh I had to go online and streaming with the county to to gripe it about

[35:04] things and that was really hard for me to do it on online but uh we were in the

[35:10] middle of Co we were in the middle of rezoning for the golf

[35:16] course uh we were in uh the the bridge closing down which we fought for 3 years

[35:24] the Brush Creek Bridge we had no access down the road at all when in other words

[35:30] what I'm trying to say is that one acre was snuck through there I'm not saying

[35:37] intentionally but nobody knew that it was happening so we can't use that one

[35:42] acre as a precedent for our Valley which I know Scott would like to use that he

[35:49] said well listen we got it right down the road one acre I'm I'm just saying we

[35:53] it can't be a president but if we agree agree to this these two 1 acre tracks a

[36:00] driveway and a 2.59 acre track over here which is going to a lot of that's going

[36:06] to be gone cuz it's going to straighten the road

[36:08] out we're setting a president for our area right now forever I've been there

[36:16] since the mid 70s 5 acres has been the prence there's

[36:23] a lot of people here tonight that live on the 5 Acres that Mr Whitfield

[36:27] separated 50 something years ago and up on Forest Neil

[36:34] Carter 5 acre tracks all through there so we're a 5 acre precedent set Valley

[36:41] not one acre I cannot envision our Valley with 150 1 acre tracks with a

[36:52] trailer or a house on it I just can't Envision that at all it would destroy

[36:58] our area we're an agricultural area I farm most of everybody here is horses

[37:06] cows chickens something nobody lives on a one acre

[37:11] track the one that that was reone nobody lives on it and uh uh it has been sold

[37:17] and I'm sure that it won't uh uh the people that are buying are not build a

[37:23] house on it um I just

[37:29] employ just begged y'all to not agree to this one acre division right here it

[37:36] looks to me like if Scott wants to have a family commune there which we have

[37:41] family communes in in our area it can be done so many other different directions

[37:47] than putting one acre tracks on road frontages now if he wants to put

[37:51] someplace to bury it's bless his heart I'm sure it's Scott a way outlive me he

[37:57] can go back and put a 1acre track up on the hill he's got a beautiful spot he

[38:01] overlooks the river right there it's a be gorgeous Place why 1acre Track Road

[38:07] Frontage I can only suppose that it's a nice place to sell someday and put a

[38:15] little house or a little trailer on there's a lot of people here and I'm

[38:20] sure a lot of them would like to say something but in order to cut

[38:24] time I would suggest maybe that we have a raise of

[38:31] hands of people that are against this and for

[38:36] it in the [Music]

[38:46] group I don't know what our pres is on that I said I don't know what our

[38:51] president hand raised I mean if if I like to speak that

[38:59] yeah I know there are other people want to speak but I know there are people

[39:02] here there's a lot of people in this group that are against this sure and

[39:08] there's a lot of them that don't want to say anything all right yeah we we can go

[39:12] ahead and do the show of hands for those people that live in this area and have

[39:18] the 5 acre tracks okay or more I would I would

[39:23] suggest since since we're talking about this uh reason zoning to R1 that we have

[39:30] a show of hands of people that are for the resoning of R1 or against the Reon

[39:35] or one what else I mean that's what we're

[39:40] that's what we're talking about what else would you like us to do I'm sorry

[39:45] well I that's just a suggestion it looks to me like we we need to sort of stay on

[39:50] more than happy if anyone wants to speak to this please feel free to come up and

[39:53] speak to it I I don't think that we would have necessarily a democratic vote

[39:58] here per se given the people that are here supporting you and your joy in

[40:03] being able to re meet with folks so uh if anyone else wishes to speak please

[40:08] speak now thank you for I believe one one more thing please I believe that if

[40:13] and I've been to aund of these meetings there is that this has been done before

[40:20] of showing hands but anyway that's thank you much problem with that thank you sir

[40:25] if someone else would like to speak please come up give us your name address

[40:29] y my name is Amy lyson I'm at 192 Sugar Hill Lane just off the Forest Drive so

[40:33] very similar area sure um I Echo Bill Rogers

[40:38] 1,00% um it sets a precedence for other land owners to do the same thing which

[40:42] we don't want in our Valley so I am against the resoning sure my two cents

[40:47] great thank you I appreciate that anyone else wish to speak I do sure

[40:57] my name is Todd Morton I live up on webridge road and U this kind of a

[41:02] double-edged sword right here cuz if you approve his I've got land on both sides

[41:08] of webridge Road and I've got 23 Acres total I'll be glad to cut mine up and

[41:14] sell off lots and develop the heck out of if his goes through I going to do the

[41:20] same thing that's your privilege thank you

[41:23] sir anyone else wish to speak I'm so

[41:29] sorry hello my name is Christiana Harding my husband David and I live on

[41:34] for stride we moved to this community specifically because of the regulations

[41:41] and Zoning that was in fact intact I moved to Spring Hill in '94 when it was

[41:47] a stop sign one farmer sold a track to land there was not protections built in

[41:54] that next parcel Farm track did not want to live

[41:59] next to a neighborhood they sold someone else died oh let's make some money and

[42:04] we all know what Spring Hill is today and the lack of structure that the city

[42:08] you know is really struggling to keep up with the traffic it's completely changed

[42:12] the landscape of things because there was not this

[42:15] foresight we all know what a beautiful area this is everybody wants to be here

[42:20] after Co everyone really wants to be here the land value has escalated

[42:28] exponentially and we all moved here most of us moved here I would say I

[42:33] specifically chose our seven and some change acreage because we looked what

[42:39] are the setbacks there are minimums that are on the properties it has to be x

[42:45] amount of a square footage home has 100 foot setbacks no trailers are allowed we

[42:51] specifically purchased these land our land because of the

[42:55] protections want to say this is where we want to die Scott and I want to know

[43:00] what it's going to look like I don't want to see a strip mall down for me the

[43:04] last place I lived strip mall right down the street I don't I don't want to see

[43:08] that I want to know all the neighbors around me I want to know that we are

[43:12] invested in this community and if we sell our land we are going to be

[43:17] respectful to the neighbors next to us it's not about can we get away with it

[43:22] are we going to be respectful to our neighbors to our community

[43:27] to the land that serves us are we going to serve the land are we going to make

[43:31] the fast buck so I hope that we as a community bond together do the right

[43:37] thing don't just look at that bottom dollar look at what does this look like

[43:41] for our neighbors our scenery and how are we protecting this for ourselves and

[43:45] for our children and our environment for our farmers and those who would like to

[43:49] farm and keep agricultural I completely understand the compound the family

[43:54] compound it's such a sweet thing we all know of a family compound that didn't

[43:59] work out very well and the family hates each other and it's a zoning nightmare

[44:04] they can't sell the properties or the houses because they have locked

[44:08] themselves in so it's a pipe dream I'm sure your family will hold together more

[44:12] tightly but um you can use that as a

[44:18] motivator um you really have to look at the long-term implications and the

[44:23] precedent I have Acres acreages all around me

[44:28] and I know that if somebody moved the next person would come in subdivide it

[44:32] put a trailer I know a neighbor here wants to put do this and do that and

[44:36] it's just such a slippery slope so I hope that we're all mindful this is our

[44:40] community once you give you cannot take it back so really be careful think

[44:46] thoughtfully about what we're doing but most importantly don't do what's right

[44:50] for just you do what's right for this community and for your neighbors and

[44:54] that's what being part of this community is about we have to we have to look out

[44:59] for each other thank you [Music]

[45:02] good hello everyone my name is Evelyn Rogers and my husband bill and I oh I

[45:09] live at we live at 1660 South harth Road and a lot of you probably know where we

[45:13] live CU we have the beled galloways black and white cows there and uh we

[45:18] bought our farm much to my dismay cuz we were so poor and everything in

[45:23] 1978 and uh we um moved moved out here 15 years ago I know a little bit about

[45:29] real estate because I sold residential real estate uh in and around uh the

[45:35] surrounding Nashville counties for 35 years and uh I actually have sold quite

[45:39] a few Parcels along South harth Road to some of the people that are here tonight

[45:44] bill and I have about 70 Acres one of the reasons we enjoy living here is the

[45:50] character of the neighborhood and the lot size and I'm crazy about Scott and

[45:56] Michael and all but if their Scott's request is granted I fear we can be in

[46:01] for a change and I'm opposed to Scott summers's request to rezone his property

[46:07] because it violates our agricultural zoning

[46:10] designation um we're supposed to have five acres we know all that we've talked

[46:14] about this tonight um if you have four acres you can do four acres if you have

[46:18] City water but four ACR like he has a 20 he has 20 acres he could say may have

[46:25] four maybe uh um or five um 20 four five four or five

[46:31] acre lots if you wanted to and anyway but all up and down South harpi Road uh

[46:37] except for the um Betsy scalin um lot that was subdivided at 601 South

[46:43] harborth Road in April of 2021

[46:47] um they're they're all four or five acres yes ma'am do you have do you have

[46:52] any additional information that we have not yet heard that you'd like to share

[46:55] with us

[46:59] I do apprciate comments I do want to say had several I do want to say this

[47:04] property owners have significant rights but the rights are not absolute and as

[47:08] Christiana said what they have to consider the rights of the neighborhood

[47:13] and I think this zoning change should be denied thank you thank you appreciate

[47:17] your comments anyone else wish to speak I don't know that I have much more

[47:22] to offer other than my family moved to Kingston Springs about 5 and A2 years

[47:26] years ago because we wanted to be in the country and we chose our lot because it

[47:30] was deeded at 5 1/2 acres and there were um deed restrictions in the area that we

[47:36] bought I'm at 180 Sugar Hill Lane just off of Forest Drive uh we have been

[47:40] dealing with bridge closures as been mentioned and I wouldn't begin to tell

[47:43] Scott what to do with this property other than there are um zoning plots

[47:48] already in place um the bridge at Brush Creek has been closed on us um landowner

[47:54] bought it hadn't been up kept up and Williamson County decided to adopt that

[47:59] bridge and it's going to be great when it's done but my fear is the same as the

[48:03] others who have spoken we're on 5 Acres we're raising a family there we love the

[48:07] area we love the fact that it's zoned as a state uh and if if um this Genie is

[48:13] let out of the bottle on one acre lots I don't know that you could ever get it

[48:15] back in thank you for your comments do anyone else anyone else excuse me wish

[48:20] to speak I will sure if anything you can add to it sir I I agree with all these

[48:27] people here in Bill Rogers especially I um I live at 10 my name is Phil canedy I

[48:31] live at 1026 South Harford I got 33 Acres there I was born and raised on

[48:36] Charlotte Pike and I wanted to have something out here that would be mine

[48:41] and I've worked it hard and I hope I keep my place up looking good I think

[48:44] the world of Scott Summers and Michael they're fabulous sure this weekend I

[48:48] went and looked at a farm Down leapers Sport and this doctor friend of mine had

[48:53] it for sale for 3.7 he's would you give me

[48:58] two I said no he said I am hurting they rezoned him and right straight across

[49:03] the street from his driveway he's got two double wides sitting there cars

[49:07] jacked up on blocks beer cans for their selling aluminum he's I have lost I said

[49:13] tell me I don't need it don't want imp part of it sure so okay that's right it

[49:18] is a slippery slope deal yes sir we appreciate right

[49:22] sure this yes ma'am

[49:31] hello hi um my name's Georgie Rigby um and I live on PO POA Creek Road which is

[49:39] in the area um just literally near The Covered Bridge um where South Harper

[49:46] thrs past it you know on the corner there um I'm actually in one of the

[49:50] properties um which is 7 Acres um on the farm where the family fell out

[49:58] so um uh this is not personal at all to Scott um but uh we my my husband and I

[50:07] moved from England um three years ago and we moved to Franklin and we spent a

[50:14] year you know looking for the most idilic spot and it was it was almost as

[50:21] though we um we had found gold at the end of the rainbow when we drove down

[50:30] south Hoth Valley and we just thought this is for

[50:34] us I'm sure I'm sure do you have do you have any comments we I think we all

[50:39] understand that you all appreciate the athetics of where you are yeah we we

[50:43] bought it for the beauty the tranquility and the peace and I think when spots are

[50:49] divided you know plots are divided into smaller acreage um you can't stop that

[50:55] happening you know so it is a precedent and you can't stop that happening so

[51:02] that's why we're here all right you know thank you thank you we appreciate it

[51:06] anyone else have anything additional that they'd like to add to our

[51:12] conversation okay thank

[51:18] you so we've heard a lot of comments um pro and

[51:22] con I do have one question Mr chairman um How is rezoning of only a portion of

[51:28] the property allowed versus rezoning the entire property because we were going to

[51:32] be understand you had to reone the entire property versus just a

[51:36] lots I will defer to our Planner on that question I'm sorry I'm going to

[51:41] apologize to everybody out there my hearing aids are in the shop so you're

[51:44] going to have to speak up you get to yell at this is the only time here so

[51:48] they'll know who they're talking to so my firm and I we've never heard get up

[51:52] there yeah if you'll go up here it be easier John can capture you on the

[51:55] record um my name is Alan Broner I work for

[51:59] chapline associates representing Mr Summers here um we just had a few

[52:03] questions this is the first time we've dealt with Kingston Springs in cheum

[52:06] county in this manner and we've never heard of rezoning only a portion of the

[52:09] property we just wanted to know how allowing only the lots to be rezoned is

[52:13] allowed versus rezoning the entire parcel how is that allowed so that was

[52:18] the reason I apologize but that the reason for submitting it for the whole

[52:22] thing to Beed so that this is the survey that submitted the okay so so what you

[52:31] submitted versus what he has requested summ are

[52:36] not and cohesive they're not the same right if you don't well there there was

[52:40] a miscommunication between Mr Su and and we just we just my firm wanted to find

[52:44] out how that was allowed because this again this is the first time we've ever

[52:48] heard of doing it this way and would you like for me to address that I would it

[52:52] happens every day okay and it happens all over the county

[52:56] I have a couple of observations um I don't have a personal feeling about this

[53:02] one way or the other I look at the rules I look at the rags I make

[53:07] recommendations to them but there are a few things that this audience is not

[53:11] privy to or may not have ever been told the state of Tennessee is adamant

[53:17] about right farm and they have 19 separate statutes

[53:23] that regulate what we can do and how we can

[53:27] come to bear on agricultural property as an example how many of you and I'm going

[53:33] to ask for a show of hands have any of you are aware that I can own a farm well

[53:40] say my farm is 35 acres and I can build as many houses on it as I want in order

[53:48] for my workers to have housing without your consent without your control

[53:54] without your input farming in Tennessee has a very specific definition it's 15

[54:01] Acres you have to Pro you have to produce a salable crop the other thing

[54:07] that many people are not aware of because the state is doesn't do a really

[54:10] good job of letting us know when they pass new rules we just kind of find out

[54:14] ambling down the path somewhere one of the other things that a

[54:18] lot of people don't understand is you can't apply restrictions to agricultural

[54:23] land for setbacks your zoning ordinance is

[54:27] useless the state statute is a real simple five sentence statement you

[54:34] cannot apply zoning restrictions to agriculturally used property

[54:42] period so the insulation that you used to have is predicated on the pellet case

[54:47] that happened in hon County Tennessee they started with the maze so

[54:52] they could earn extra money to feed the farm you know School school children

[54:56] came and went through the corn maze they had other activities where you learned

[55:01] how about farming and how it was done which furthered the educational Outreach

[55:06] that the state adopted and then at some point in Houston hon County depends on

[55:12] who you ask like live and L and here um they decided to have music festivals to

[55:19] attract people to the farm so they could consume their Farm to Table goods and

[55:23] the other things they were doing and the neighbor next door was not a fan because

[55:29] it was loud I mean it was on stage big speaker

[55:34] music it went all the way to the Tennessee Appel at court where the Court

[55:38] ruled that music festivals were not agricultural

[55:41] activity the legislature promptly reconvened and declared that music

[55:47] festivals that attracted people to the agricultural property in order to

[55:51] partake of the view in the Vista and farming activi is now and allowed

[55:57] agricultural activity so just a little history on

[56:02] zoning and agriculture for those of you that live on farms farms in Tennessee

[56:09] require 15 Acres contiguous in order to be a farm you have to produce something

[56:16] that is commercially merchantable sailable it has to be at least

[56:22] $1,500 per year in order for you to qu qualify as a farm you can put it in the

[56:28] green belt at 15 Acres but it's not a farm unless it's a working farm so just

[56:34] so you know your state legislature anytime somebody complains they

[56:38] reconvene a new law comes out there are 19 of them the Farm Bureau puts out a

[56:45] really comprehensive list of these things so while I understand all of the

[56:51] comments about I bought it for peace and Tranquility I'm going to ask my second

[56:56] show of hands how many of you were born and raised in that

[57:03] area one two area what area K spring but it's not really Rel your homes I'm just

[57:11] asking a question no development existed at one

[57:15] point right because Native Americans occupied the land they just migrated to

[57:19] another place where they needed to move so every single structure building or

[57:24] use that occurs to today occurs because someone else came to that place so while

[57:32] I understand your IR I also understand

[57:36] it's a very difficult thing for governments local governments with all

[57:39] the restrictions the state puts on us to balance what you would like to see as

[57:44] opposed to your neighbor's property rights to do what he wants to do it's a

[57:48] really difficult thing you heard me say in the opening if you approve this

[57:54] you're setting a precedent right that president has been set in

[57:59] every subdivision in this town every subdivision in the county every time the

[58:05] county allows someone to subdivide off the one acre with their house on it so

[58:09] they don't have to mortgage the farm to build the house it happens consistently

[58:15] regularly and routinely this body as it's very complex issue in front

[58:21] of them is a recommending body I if if I were a betting person I

[58:27] would say regardless of the recommendation the county is going to do

[58:31] what it wants we are a recommending body we have no control over that Mr Summers

[58:36] has expressed on a public record that this is for the purposes of Family

[58:41] Division so that his children can live on that

[58:45] property the remaining 15 Acres remains in the green belt which is an

[58:51] agriculturally driven taxing structure in the state of Tennessee

[58:57] so if the county approves this regardless of the input of this body and

[59:01] I don't know what their input's going to be we have no control over that what

[59:06] then happens is the subdivision element the actual dividing of the Lots comes

[59:11] back to this body because they have to use our sub RADS and they're much

[59:15] stricter than the ones in the county much stricter we require much

[59:20] more because it's an urban environment with lots more people so while I

[59:25] understand the convers is taking place if Mr Summers was operating a farm

[59:31] he would be able to put 20 migrant houses on that farm if he needed to for

[59:34] his workers if you're a family member you're

[59:38] Associated you can have a house if you drive out of Springfield on your way to

[59:44] Kentucky you will see that occurring on farms all over the place so while I

[59:49] understand it you came here from another environment moved here for a particular

[59:54] lifestock and you found your piece of land that

[59:59] provided you with that lifestyle but they have to make a decision based on is

[1:00:04] this something that occurs in the county and it

[1:00:10] does I have a question pardon you said if the land

[1:00:15] is a farm right and that requires how many acres 15 right if then then Mr

[1:00:23] Summers could build any anything he wanted there

[1:00:27] because it would not be restricted as many houses as he would like

[1:00:32] therefore therefore oper Farm that's correct because he's not operating a

[1:00:37] farm he's not operating a farm he would have to be operating a farm turning a

[1:00:41] making a were so I'm not I'm not leaning one way the other I'm simply telling you

[1:00:47] that if someone owns 100 acres next doorer a farm and they operate a farm

[1:00:53] they can build as many houses on as they want the county has no control neither

[1:00:56] does the city the state does so I would advise you there is a farm one moment I

[1:01:02] I see you I'll get to you in a second okay thank you I I would advise you to

[1:01:06] go on the internet without my input look up the Farm Bureau list of restrictions

[1:01:12] on local governments on Farm property yes there was no there's

[1:01:17] gentleman in the back that wishes to speak yes sir stand up please we need

[1:01:20] your name and address my name is Gus Ro I'm

[1:01:24] 6337 and Road my question is if you own 20 acres in ch County can you build

[1:01:33] threee houses you cannot unless you're farming

[1:01:38] unless you're farming how many houses can you build on 20

[1:01:41] acres unless it's reson unless it's reson you can't so you want to know I I

[1:01:47] don't have any idea as I said at the start of this meeting the county

[1:01:51] recently updated their zoning ordinance and has anybody looked at the

[1:01:56] County's ordinance CU I would advise you to to look at it my confusion is I heard

[1:02:01] a lot about five acres correct in the right

[1:02:05] now so if he's got 20 acres he's got 20 acres he could build 4 acre lots and he

[1:02:13] could build five houses today without even

[1:02:19] coming well that's Mr Summer's decision but we appreciate your point and

[1:02:22] understand it thank you yes ma'am

[1:02:27] you raising your

[1:02:31] hand what what constitutes the F so what how I'm sure there's a IRS tax basis

[1:02:38] what constitutes farming yeah $1,500 15 Acres yeah minut just a minute

[1:02:45] the state definition of agricultural activity M Mr Rogers if you'll give me

[1:02:50] just a second to answer I'm not saying anything 15 continuous

[1:02:56] Acres producing a commercial crop in other words it has to be a sellable crop

[1:03:02] of $1500 per year which isn't a lot but

[1:03:07] it's $1,500 um so that is the state

[1:03:11] definition a lot of people confuse green belt or green space with farming but the

[1:03:17] state statutes are very clear on what constitutes a farm so if you have

[1:03:24] multiple Acres I don't how many you have but if you have chickens and you know

[1:03:29] you have cows or you have you know whatever on that land you still do not

[1:03:34] qualify according to the state of Tennessee as a farm because you have to

[1:03:38] have 15 Acres or $1,500 yes sir I don't understand why we're even discussing

[1:03:44] this Farm he's not farming the The Proposal here

[1:03:48] is to reone three lots two 1 acre lots and a 2.59 acre lot understand that

[1:03:56] corre I don't even just I understand that Miss Armstrong is instructing us on

[1:04:02] us Farmers on what we could do but it's not relevant to what the decision that

[1:04:07] this commission has to make your decision is whether we're

[1:04:12] going to rezone this to R1 uh and leave the rest of it in green

[1:04:17] Bel which he we understand that we've also allowed many people to speak on

[1:04:20] many subjects and we're okay it looks like we got way off a track there I mean

[1:04:24] we were talking about building 50 Lots on than you for thank you for your input

[1:04:29] Lauren I apologize but if I may the reason that it came up is because a

[1:04:34] number of people stepped up and talked about owning a farm and they thought

[1:04:38] within that owning a farm there was some insulation that was afforded to them

[1:04:44] there's not what will you clarify I'm sorry Sharon sure 15 acres and getting

[1:04:51] $1,500 of income salable income year that is a f okay what is a green belt

[1:04:56] you have to have 15 greenen belt is land that is reserved that is not going to be

[1:05:01] used for development which provides you with a tax break because it's not being

[1:05:06] developed so those are not the same thing there are tons of properties that

[1:05:11] are in the green belt that are not Farms so while I understand Mr Rogers we have

[1:05:16] one issue before us today that is correct but I wanted people to

[1:05:20] understand that when they're saying I own a

[1:05:23] farm it's we also been 5 acre track 5 acre track is is there anything

[1:05:31] that anyone contribute that will be additional information to what we have

[1:05:36] already discussed yes you may so again uh Mr Summers is only producing three

[1:05:41] lots two 1 acre lots and one 2.5 acre lot and the rest is to remain in Green

[1:05:46] Belt which will be maintained as green belt that 15 acres and the property will

[1:05:51] stay as it stands but I would also profer Mr Summers and in that case would

[1:05:56] also be able to take that out of the green belt that's a voluntary submission

[1:06:00] in a voluntary submission out the green belt okay so you know there's no

[1:06:07] guarantee that property stays in a green belt I

[1:06:12] mean the way I see it is he can do anything he wants he's just going have

[1:06:16] to give that green Bel up so I mean if I want to develop that land bad enough I

[1:06:20] would give it up I'm sure we can all just have ideas of what what

[1:06:27] take and eat and be able to eat it to that is one man's opinion thank you

[1:06:31] thank you I appreciate it I do okay are we through with discussion does

[1:06:37] anybody else need to hear anything okay unless other people have a

[1:06:41] comment discussion now is Planning Commission only

[1:06:46] okay do appreciate everyone being

[1:06:51] here all right so if you recommend this forward is in your growth area it's in

[1:06:58] your Urban growth boundary so that's the first test that

[1:07:04] you have to have when you want to subdivide property is it in the growth

[1:07:07] plan this is your extraterrestrial Urban growth boundary around your city with

[1:07:12] the assumption that sometime with the next 5 to CH years these properties will

[1:07:17] probably Annex into your city it's the reason why some of the larger tracks

[1:07:21] were taken out when we redid it because 24 years nothing happened right so your

[1:07:28] second question is while you are a question please sure where is the edge

[1:07:32] of the urban growth boundary Urban growth boundary I'll have to get you a

[1:07:37] map but it's contingent to this area um a lot of this area right it did not

[1:07:46] change REM our growth boundary was not increased I'm sorry comment is

[1:07:55] yeah uh but the urban growth boundary did not increase anywhere it decreased

[1:08:00] we removed the ranch hats for the reason stayed earlier so it's the same Urban

[1:08:05] growth boundary it's been since 1999 when the maps were gone right if it's in

[1:08:10] your Urban growth boundary that's your first test the second test is are you

[1:08:14] setting a precedent in a given area that has not been previously

[1:08:20] set so your Urban growth boundary is not your only consideration every single

[1:08:26] piece of property here at some point with a

[1:08:30] bar right so while I understand the argument the question for you

[1:08:36] becomes infrastructure so your considerations are not while I have

[1:08:43] heartburn I move from where I used to live because of development right I

[1:08:47] understand that but your questions are can you support the traffic can you

[1:08:52] provide or can the county can the county provide sufficient infrastructure fire

[1:08:56] suppression policing all the other things that come with development and

[1:09:00] are you setting a precedent in this area so the only way can we have access

[1:09:08] to a map maybe nope nope okay we're just out of joh you been a big help

[1:09:15] today so the question for you becomes in this area where people have expressed

[1:09:22] displeasure with the idea

[1:09:26] agriculture is defined as 15 Acres or more

[1:09:33] contiguous for Farm use that's the state law what's the definition for the green

[1:09:38] belt the same the green belt can either contain um Comm harus it can contain

[1:09:46] agricultural property but the green belt can also be granted because you have a

[1:09:52] an agreement with the state that you're not going to develop that property leave

[1:09:55] it in natural state if you don't mind me using yours you're adjacent to a flood

[1:10:00] area you have flood area on your property we're a no build in the flood

[1:10:04] Area Community so you elected because you

[1:10:08] cannot really develop it to put it in and it would be inappropriate to offer

[1:10:14] for development because it's in a a flood area so you placed it in the green

[1:10:19] belt which is appropriate because you other than it's there you derive no

[1:10:24] useful benefit right and almost all land use litigation is based on peaceful and

[1:10:29] useful enjoyment of your property so if you can't use it so the people that have

[1:10:36] like a s and a half track 7 and A2 acre track right is that a farm in the it's

[1:10:42] not a farm it is in the agricultural Zone it is it is in an agricultural Zone

[1:10:47] because the county and this all started once growth started becoming heavy mhm

[1:10:54] in this area and Tennessee the discussion started taking

[1:10:59] place the county zones the property as agricultural even though it doesn't meet

[1:11:07] the state definition which evolved over a period of about 20 years but according

[1:11:13] to the county it is all agricultural in that area the agricultural zone so the

[1:11:17] minimum make is there for a house is five we have an r1a Zone if you have

[1:11:22] three acres you can keep horses which is what we're looking at mhm but you still

[1:11:26] don't qualify as a farm as agricultural activity

[1:11:32] okay any further discussion question no I mean I think the one point that should

[1:11:37] be clarified is for everyone here no matter what decision we make you're

[1:11:42] going to still have to go to the county that's correct the county actually makes

[1:11:45] the decision that's the bottom line is that the county will make that decision

[1:11:48] and then based on that if there's any development at all it comes back here I

[1:11:54] unless you got something new to add a question sure uh when it does go to

[1:11:59] County do they allow people to come to speak into that is that open meeting

[1:12:05] will the county allow people to speak into it when they when it goes to the

[1:12:08] county they do yes yes ma'am thank you so much okay do you have to get on the

[1:12:14] agenda ahead of time I'm sorry agenda you have to get on theenda ahead of time

[1:12:20] is what I'm asking County this will this decision whatever it go to the and they

[1:12:26] will have to put it on the agenda they're not real fans of public speaking

[1:12:31] at the county so they do require you sign up ahead of time I don't know what

[1:12:35] the day is um I'm still trying to abort their new zoning changes yeah okay all

[1:12:42] right we've had a lot of discussion again appreciate everyone being here and

[1:12:45] being respectful in their comments we do appreciate that very much

[1:12:51] so with all of that discussion do we have a motion one way or the other

[1:12:56] unless they have any other questions you have any other questions about

[1:13:00] it sounds like to me you're basically trying to get these individual Parcels

[1:13:06] Parcels divided out for the purposes you stated the the biggest difference is

[1:13:11] you're going from with the agriculture area to where you could have either a

[1:13:14] four or a five at a minimum so now we're looking at setting a precedence for

[1:13:19] being able to establish a one acre and having a one acre is what everyone is

[1:13:24] upset about that is correct so I'm just put all out there that summed up yeah an

[1:13:31] hour's worth of conversation yes okay so do we have a motion one way

[1:13:35] or the

[1:13:39] other I got one other question we make a motion so any of these properties that

[1:13:44] are not in the urban growth area are not subject to coming to this board anyway

[1:13:49] for any change right for 1acre lot so if they own property outside that they got

[1:13:54] to go to the county great is that correct right and then the county has to

[1:13:58] decide they let you divide it less than 5 acres and the County's already set of

[1:14:03] Precedence to do this and but we have not correct and he is at the edge of the

[1:14:10] city whereas for those of you that in the county it's already a precedence to

[1:14:14] do it nothing that we can do not in our area and we do not have within the city

[1:14:19] a purely agricultural Zone we have r1a we don't have agricultural GES in the

[1:14:27] city so totally different circumstance

[1:14:32] here but zoned are and we are only recommending we are only recommending

[1:14:38] the county is going to make the decision that the county is going to make that's

[1:14:41] correct at the County Commission not their Planning Commission it doesn't go

[1:14:44] to their Planning Commission goes directly to the County Commission so if

[1:14:47] we if we reject this idea today then he can't even take it to the county for oh

[1:14:52] no he still go to the county still has to still has to

[1:14:57] asking at the end of the day this is much to do about nothing okay that's

[1:15:01] what I'm about 99% of the cases regardless of the recommendations they

[1:15:06] res they do what they do just that's the reality well it seems to me it's pretty

[1:15:13] much the County's decision anyhow it is we're required by law to render an

[1:15:19] opinion so you can recommend either way and that's true of your own City

[1:15:24] commission if the Planning Commission makes a negative recommendation on a

[1:15:27] rezone oh yeah a majority of the City commissioners can overturn

[1:15:32] it your recommendation is so you're a recommending body

[1:15:38] only because the state says you have

[1:15:44] to I make a motion that we do not recommend

[1:15:47] it I I just feel that that is an agricultural area it's been that way

[1:15:56] um I don't I don't know whether I want to set that precedence over there I

[1:16:02] second Okay so we've had a motion and a second not to recommend resoning this

[1:16:09] area from uh agricultural to

[1:16:15] R1 any further discussion Among Us roll call for this one okay roll call vote

[1:16:21] please johnry

[1:16:25] Keith Al

[1:16:28] good I Tony Thompson is absent Tony gross yes Mike harus so what what is the

[1:16:37] motion again the motion is that we will not approve we will not rec deny to deny

[1:16:43] to deny yeah okay I got you now you're waiting for me to vote

[1:16:49] right I I support that okay thank you Hill

[1:16:55] I am supporting the motion Mike P is absent Craig kit is

[1:16:59] absent mace bafford Hi l all right okay sobody out there understands

[1:17:09] the motion was motion is Den

[1:17:18] unanimously okay if that do stop you from taking it

[1:17:22] to the county

[1:17:25] stop you either four four houses on it with five acres of P okay

[1:17:32] uh discussion uh discussion of cord drill

[1:17:37] and letter sent by Mr mcperson no voter formal action can be taken by

[1:17:42] the Planning Commission as a letter was not received in time to advertise the

[1:17:45] request of the applicant yes ma'am we discussed this

[1:17:49] briefly earlier um the Planning Commission in November of last year ired

[1:17:55] Mr mcperson to do a cordr 13 locations on site were identified uh most of those

[1:18:03] areas where where buildings would go or in areas where fill was deposited

[1:18:07] outside of the approved grading plan um he was also to furnish a lab

[1:18:13] report for what was in the ground and to ensure that it was properly compacted we

[1:18:19] had two complaints

[1:18:22] um and when I went to renew his grading permit because it was time to do that it

[1:18:28] was expiring during that same period i observed um construction demolition

[1:18:34] debris right chimney uh Foundation materials that

[1:18:39] were made back in a generation with they use from Malahide in the Cure I observe

[1:18:44] copper pipe PVC a number of other things so at that point I issued as the

[1:18:52] regulations require immediate stop because was outside the confines of his

[1:18:56] permit okay then the Planning Commission gave him specific directions it is my

[1:19:01] understanding from the Geo technical firm that hrill and the lab reports were

[1:19:06] completed some weeks ago right they have not been provided to the city therefore

[1:19:12] we cannot do anything you have even and this was not received in time to

[1:19:17] advertise it so it's not been advertised this is discussion only that's why it's

[1:19:22] under discussion item so where we are we give an update this is another standing

[1:19:27] item it stays on the agenda um you can't take action the stop can't be lifted

[1:19:32] until the core report is received and reviewed by the engineer and planning

[1:19:38] staff to make sure that basically nothing changed right

[1:19:43] right nothing other than you all received a

[1:19:49] letter project representative do I have opportunity to

[1:19:53] speak so Kyle Schneider uh engineer of record

[1:19:58] civil engineer um I cannot speak to the soil report that is the geotechnical

[1:20:04] engineer right I've been made aware that I believe it has been completed being

[1:20:08] reviewed and it should be submitted to the city consultant engineer shortly for

[1:20:14] his review um my discussion was on the

[1:20:19] February decision to not allow the renewal of the Pud plans um if if I may

[1:20:26] I I apologize Mr Snider this is not on the agenda tonight no consideration

[1:20:32] could be given to the plans until he submits the cural report and it's

[1:20:38] reviewed by staff right and that was the question that Miss spafford asked during

[1:20:43] that meeting is if he provides the core report and comes out clean can he

[1:20:49] resubmit unfortunately his grading permit and his plan approval occurred in

[1:20:53] the same month because they were both approved in the

[1:20:56] same month so during that meeting this body on staff

[1:21:02] recommendation for both the engineer and the planner did not

[1:21:13] reapproved so while you may have this discussion the only thing that can occur

[1:21:18] to cure the flaw for Mr mcferson is the provision of that report so the only

[1:21:23] thing that I I'd like to say is that I went back and listened to the February

[1:21:28] meeting there was contradictory statements made by City staff uh City

[1:21:32] staff said that the plans would expire 12 months after

[1:21:39] with no utility work being performed on site the city staff said that plans

[1:21:45] would expire at the end of the month and City staff said that the plans had

[1:21:49] expired so contradictory statements as for the utility plans not having any

[1:21:55] work done on them for 12 months um City staff had had their Consulting engineer

[1:22:02] send plans to myself and I had revised those plans on September 22nd 2023 I'm

[1:22:08] sorry have to actually speak up it's the consultant engineer uh sent me utility

[1:22:13] plans that needed to be revised uh September of 23 less than 12 months ago

[1:22:20] so less than 12 months ago work was being done on utility plans so as we see

[1:22:27] it the utility plans weren't up for expiration anyways as the engineer

[1:22:33] record we had no notice that our plans were expiring from City staff at all um

[1:22:40] Mr mcferson was notified c as the engineer of record I'm I'm

[1:22:46] stating on public record we were not notified I'm also stating that it was

[1:22:50] not 12 months from a stop work order to when these plans expired you yourself

[1:22:57] were out on site a stop work order issue Kyle you're conflating issues here and

[1:23:03] discussions the plans were approved by the Planning

[1:23:07] Commission they have a two-year window under the put agreement you said in the

[1:23:12] February meeting it was it was one year I'm going to answer the question

[1:23:17] regardless those plans have a 2-year window upon approval for substantial

[1:23:24] progress on construction to take place he's still in the grading phase he has

[1:23:31] zero permits for construction there are a number of

[1:23:36] articles on the lot there is piping on the lot there's a number of other things

[1:23:41] on the lot none of them have been installed none of them so the plant

[1:23:47] themselves may be impacted by what happens with the grading plans and C

[1:23:52] drill I don't know what's in there fter as anybody else what he's used for Phill

[1:23:59] so all of that if you weren't notified Mr mcferson was notified well before the

[1:24:05] deadline for that to happen I believe he was notified on February 1st or so and

[1:24:12] the meeting was February 9th I have an email I don't necessarily have Mr M was

[1:24:17] notified this plans were coming up for revision again you're confusing the

[1:24:21] grading permit with approved development I'm talking about in the February

[1:24:26] meeting the Pud plans were denied renewal that is correct those PUD plans

[1:24:33] shouldn't have been up for Renewal anyway so they shouldn't have been up

[1:24:36] for expiration they you said it yourself that utility work needed to be done

[1:24:42] within 12 months utility work was being done up until August when he received

[1:24:47] the notice of violation no the grading plan was being done grading and

[1:24:51] utilities go together they are not no util have been installed on with all

[1:24:56] with all due respect yes they do you cannot install utilities until you have

[1:25:02] your site

[1:25:05] graded as long as he is filling and he's still

[1:25:10] filling the property until he gets to final grade

[1:25:16] there have been pipes there and that was the question I asked why have you not

[1:25:19] started the utility installation he said I'm still taking in Soul until he

[1:25:25] accomplishes the rough grading and it's signed off on he can't yes he is aware

[1:25:30] of that he is aware of that you issued a notice of violation stop work order in

[1:25:34] August I went out the next day I did a site inspection as requested right so

[1:25:39] one of your stipulations was the site engineer needs to go out there and do a

[1:25:43] site visit the next day I went out there and did a site visit you requested

[1:25:47] updated utility plans in September we did that you requested updated grading

[1:25:53] plan we got that to you the only thing he's lacking is the soil report yes he

[1:25:58] is still lacking significant that is significant significant that's why he

[1:26:03] has a I myself I am not a soil engineer is any members of Planning Commission

[1:26:07] soil soil SCI with what's happening here speak to

[1:26:12] him about getting that report to us and then we can all move forward we don't

[1:26:16] have to have this discussion all we're saying is that we have been making

[1:26:20] progress with the site to take away the renewal of the Pud plan essentially

[1:26:24] making us start from zero was unfair and essentially uncalled

[1:26:30] for as we had been making progress on utilities you had but we still don't

[1:26:35] have what we require to move forward and until we have that we can't move forward

[1:26:39] and this conversation is

[1:26:43] moved while the soil the soil testing was a stipulation of the notice of

[1:26:49] violation it had nothing to do with the Pud plans you you you're you said it

[1:26:54] yourself in the February meeting these are two separate issues they completely

[1:26:58] are but his PUD approval for the preliminary plans was granted when uh

[1:27:05] sometime in 2022 I believe I'm sorry sometime in 2022 I believe that is

[1:27:10] correct so it is up for Renewal they chose as long as as long as work was

[1:27:16] being done on the site two years 2024 it was up for Renewal and in February it

[1:27:23] was not how how is progress being made if you're

[1:27:26] under a stop work order progress was being the requested items the requested

[1:27:31] items were being you you had to fulfill the requirements to get rid of the stop

[1:27:38] work order to make any progress on your project yes the original soft work order

[1:27:42] had five or six items we had one item remaining you had not met the

[1:27:46] requirements I don't know where where this is going to arve you didn't make

[1:27:50] meet the requirements you could not be making progress you're two years were up

[1:27:56] that's the bottom line that's where you stand right now I hate it and we've

[1:27:59] already went through this whole soul deal one other time we' spent a ton of

[1:28:04] time on this project these this is where we are and

[1:28:09] that's what you have to meet I think for it's important for our newer members of

[1:28:14] the Planning Commission to understand the

[1:28:17] original approved plans there's still no putt agreement because all of the items

[1:28:22] necessary to put a put agreement together have not been the plan the

[1:28:27] or construction and the layout of this development approved in February of

[1:28:35] 2022 they have a two-year window with a request for Renewal you want to just

[1:28:40] have a recess so that folks that want to go can

[1:28:44] go sit through this so I Mr when I visited the site in order to

[1:28:53] bring this perm which is a warning perm I

[1:29:04] ad put gas in clean it up thank you all thank

[1:29:12] you you're fine you're fine thanks everybody it's great to see democracy at

[1:29:19] workk good night night drive S Mr mcferson was advised during the site

[1:29:27] visit for the renewal of his grading plan that his preliminary plan approved

[1:29:32] in 2022 we're going to expire in24 so he was advised of

[1:29:39] that okay there's a lot of language in what you received that seems to indicate

[1:29:46] that he was not advised we're not counsel that is absolutely not the case

[1:29:52] what he chooses to tell his development staff is entirely up to him um but he

[1:29:58] was advised that that expiration date was coming up we received two

[1:30:04] complaints those complaints were founded right the Planning Commission gave him

[1:30:10] direction as to what to do to rectify those complaints the core drill reports

[1:30:17] have not been provided in February his P which he was

[1:30:22] advised of in November were going to expire in February that

[1:30:26] was part of the conversation on the site that day so there's no formal record an

[1:30:32] acknowledgement by Mr mcferson that he screwed up that he

[1:30:37] shouldn't have done what he did what you've been working towards is to

[1:30:41] rectify the additional point is it 61 or 91 Acres that he exceeded its ra I think

[1:30:48] it's 6 AC with Phil and compassion that's in Green Space Not

[1:30:54] underneath building foundations as you it is in green space not under building

[1:31:00] foundations SE his permit period Then he was he had to go back to

[1:31:08] Tac I believe and submit yes in order to get approval for that because the state

[1:31:15] requires you when you change the configuration of your permit you're

[1:31:20] required to go back to the state in order to get re-approval all of that was

[1:31:24] ongoing so at the night that the discussion was held it was time to

[1:31:29] either renew or not renew the preliminary set of plans and by the way

[1:31:34] this is the second set of plans for this project the first set were approved

[1:31:41] everything was ready to go we were working on the put agreement Mr mcferson

[1:31:45] changed his mind about what he wanted to do right so without calling names the

[1:31:50] original complaint came from someone who worked on the site

[1:31:55] the second complaint came from a planing commissioner both were

[1:31:59] investigated this is our second pathway down this I don't know whether the soul

[1:32:04] is suitable or not because I don't have a report neither does the

[1:32:08] engineer Mr Snider also contacted the city engineer this week to ask him about

[1:32:15] the stock worker and was told by the city engineer to come back to planning

[1:32:20] because you are the approval body we don't approve or deny plans this body

[1:32:26] does but you give recommendations to until we get but I think You' discussed

[1:32:31] you disc that we all make our own decisions yeah no absolutely I'm just if

[1:32:36] you want to end the conversation that's fine the February meeting was unfair as

[1:32:42] this engineer of record I was not able to be present you had a review of the

[1:32:48] engineering plans there um again information presented in that

[1:32:56] meeting by Miss Armstrong made it unclear why the plans were up for

[1:33:01] expiration in my opinion work was being done on site yes Mr mcferson understands

[1:33:07] that work that was overstepping um not uncommon on

[1:33:13] construction sites by the way not uncommon that you go outside your limit

[1:33:17] of disturbance it's then it should not be uncommon to be able to go ahead and

[1:33:21] correct that issue by going not it's not common that a soil report is requested

[1:33:28] as well on a private development where this the suitability of the soil

[1:33:35] ultimately if this site gets built has no bearing on the city the city is not

[1:33:39] liable for it or anything no just the people that live there just people that

[1:33:43] live there absolutely yeah yeah and the people on the property just the people

[1:33:46] that live there their houses get to crack and fall or they can have problems

[1:33:50] with rine or whatever just the people that live there are affected by this

[1:33:53] other than that it doesn't matter and whatever runs off of that property onto

[1:33:58] other property okay this is discussion do we have anything else to add to it

[1:34:01] because this will be this will be on the agenda next month right that's correct

[1:34:05] but I do want to make a couple statements okay be brief before we end

[1:34:09] this just just for clarity it is not unfair to issue a stop

[1:34:15] when someone for the second time on a project is depositing bill that is

[1:34:20] unsuitable on a site the soul is not supposed to be stored on phase one

[1:34:25] that's one of the restrictions and that is where it was visible from the road

[1:34:30] that construction debris from a demolished structure was on the site so

[1:34:35] again if his team is not notified it's not the city's responsibility that's Mr

[1:34:44] McPherson's responsibility you cannot move forward at this juncture until we

[1:34:50] get that report that you've required so there's really nothing we can do tonight

[1:34:56] uh the work that's going on on the site is survey work and other work that is

[1:35:00] required to update the set of plans for the TAC submission in order to correct

[1:35:05] the permit it has zero to do with the deadline that expired that he was

[1:35:13] informed of those are the last comments that I

[1:35:17] have for the evening thank you for your discussion thank you thank you thank you

[1:35:22] okay with that uh is complete motion to

[1:35:27] adjourn second all in favor say I oppos motion carries

2024 04 11 PC Meeting

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