[0:00] All

[0:07] right, we're ready to start the meeting. Very good evening everybody. I just want

[0:12] to uh apologize for uh the mayor. He's out of uh state today. So, you got me.

[0:19] Um so, let's get the meeting started.

[0:23] Accidentate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open

[0:26] public meetings act pursuant to public laws 1975.

[0:31] Said notice was advertised in the Asbury Park press and the beacon and was posted

[0:35] on the bulletin board showing the time and place of the meeting.

[0:40] Please stand and salute the flag

[0:46] to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it

[0:51] stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice

[0:56] for all. >> And please stay standing for a moment of

[1:00] silence. Uh I will make it a little longer tonight because we've had a

[1:04] tremendous amount of tragedy in the area on our waterways. So I want to spend a

[1:08] little extra time for those families and people uh around

[1:22] All right.

[1:28] Uh before we get started with the uh business, um

[1:33] while you're here, um something new we're doing. Uh take a

[1:37] look around the room. Uh, it's Lacy Art Community in cooperation with Lacy

[1:43] Recreation Department Group art exhibit. It's called Exit 74.

[1:49] And you're going to start seeing these uh pictures posted around town from

[1:52] local people and it's from eight local artists pos participated in this event.

[2:00] The theme to speak the be that's why I got these local environments for faults

[2:07] and inspiration around Lacy. So, you get a chance before you leave

[2:11] tonight, just take the time to look around because it's uh it's actually

[2:15] even sitting up here, it's definitely brightened up the room. Thank you. All

[2:20] righty. Get down to business discussion regarding the 2027 fee increases for

[2:25] facility rentals. All >> right. Um as you you have received a

[2:29] report um this week to review with regards to the rentals at the community

[2:33] center. Um what we've been doing is analyzing the costs of the community

[2:38] center um versus the rental revenue and the impact that some of the rentals have

[2:43] on our facilities. And there is um a need to consider uh raising the fees.

[2:49] I'm going to turn it over to Mr. Restitar to recap and highlight some of

[2:52] that stuff that we are looking to increase for 2027.

[2:57] » So basically um we're just looking to modify our rate schedule for the

[3:02] community center. uh the park pavilion rental fees. We did some analysis from

[3:07] local establishments in the county, other establishments in town that

[3:11] utilize uh similar rentals. We're well under that threshold for sure. Um in

[3:17] addition to we want to keep it reasonable for our guests. We put a lot

[3:21] of money into the community center between maintenance repairs. We know it

[3:25] is another aging building and we want to continue to keep it fresh. There's been

[3:29] work done to the floors um several several times

[3:32] » to uh >> to last the last the length.

[3:36] Additionally, the park pavilion, we've put um a tremendous amount of money and

[3:40] effort and time into the Hebrew Park pavilion. If anyone hasn't

[3:46] gone through Hebrew Park and seen that yet,

[3:49] » absolutely beautiful. >> It's absolutely beautiful. We just did a

[3:52] dedication on Sunday, not to cut anybody off for Mr. Broccol. Um, finally, the

[3:58] third thing we're looking for is a block party permit. We get a lot a decent

[4:02] amount throughout the summer months. Uh, block party rentals. We don't charge

[4:05] anything for that currently. Uh, there is fees. There's administrative costs

[4:10] involved processing applications. Uh, very simply, if somebody's looking to

[4:14] have a block party, they submit application. The police department gets

[4:17] it. They have to review it. Has to be sent out. If it's granted, our public

[4:21] works staff takes the equipment, brings it down, drops it off, collects it. So

[4:24] there's there's cost involved. It's minimal. So we're looking to just bring

[4:28] ourselves up to a better, more achievable letter where we can uh excuse

[4:32] me address those costs internally. We get hit with the same rates as everybody

[4:37] else. Electric's up, gas is up, cables up, all these facility uh charges that

[4:42] we don't put onto our printers. >> Just did the research and presented to

[4:47] the govern body. >> Wonderful. So, I believe um George, what

[4:51] were we looking for? Increases to So, for uh the ballroom, which is the big

[4:57] room down at community hall, we were looking for an increase of $200 per

[5:02] rental. And the card room, which is room C, the smaller one, um $150 per rental.

[5:08] And this is for um private non not the organizations and the uh you know, the

[5:15] groups that use it. for private rentals and and fundraisers that people will do.

[5:20] Um, so we're looking again, so the ballroom that's $200 increase, the card

[5:24] room $150 increase, Gily Park, we're looking to propose a $100 increase. The

[5:28] same with Hebrew Park, and the block party permits, we were looking for a

[5:32] nominal fee of $25 per block party permit. And this will be effective um

[5:39] 2027. And again, like I said, we charge the

[5:42] clubs and organizations that utilize it for their meetings $20 a meeting and

[5:47] that will remain the same. >> Same.

[5:48] » Okay. Right. >> I I do we charge for the use of the

[5:54] kitchen and the ballroom because >> it come it comes with comes with room.

[5:59] » Have we ever looked at separating it because you're using electricity? You're

[6:02] using more electricity, etc. Refrigeration, gas,

[6:05] » separating >> the use of the kitchen. In other words,

[6:08] I want to rent the ballroom, but I don't want to rent the kitchen.

[6:11] » Well, that never really happens. They use the kitchen anyway. So, understand

[6:14] that, but I'm just saying refrigerator in there. They're using the kitchen.

[6:17] There's no way to separate things of the package when they

[6:22] » Okay. And one of one of the uh examples of

[6:26] these costs going up, which we know they're they're hitting everybody,

[6:31] but basically the community center in in 2021 the electric bill was $3,67.

[6:40] So far, it's estimated in 26 we will be at $11,460.

[6:47] That's a $217 uh% increase in five years. So,

[6:52] » like everything, we're seeing it going up. So, I mean, it's

[6:56] » I'm on board. >> Um,

[6:59] » do we need a motion? >> Chime in, Deputy Mayor.

[7:03] » Yes. >> Um, a lot of these, you know, we don't

[7:06] take this stuff lightly, but a lot of these are uh rentals of choice. And if

[7:11] you want to have a a spot in the South Dots and you have a boat that there's a

[7:15] cost. I mean, if you want to have a spot >> at one of our venues, there's upkeep,

[7:22] costs, uh, everything involved. Maintenance, repair. So,

[7:29] we do what we can to I mean, our our summer camp is about $4 a day. Comes out

[7:34] to about $4 a day. So, we're losing on that. I mean, we do everything we can

[7:39] for the residents, especially for the parents and the seniors and really

[7:43] everyone in between. As deputy mayor said, I mean, we're talking about 200%

[7:47] increase. I don't want to pass that on to everybody. I do think it's fair to

[7:52] give it to the person who's renting the venue rather than tax every citizen a

[7:56] few bucks. >> Thanks, Deputy Mayor.

[7:58] » Welcome. Anybody else? >> I just I'd like to make a motion for us

[8:02] to >> prepare an audience for this to be go

[8:06] forward because I do believe we need to increase the prices.

[8:10] » Anybody else? >> I'm good with it.

[8:13] » All right. Is that a second? >> Is that a second? Tim.

[8:17] » All in favor? >> I

[8:21] » All righty. Next. The request to post signs on township property for the Fork

[8:26] River Fire Company's Ride Through the Pines fundraiser.

[8:30] » The Fork River Fire Company is seeking permission to post a 4x6 um sign at the

[8:35] community development property, which is 124 South Main Street. And this is to

[8:39] promote the annual motorcycle ride through the Pines fundraising event. Uh,

[8:43] the event is September 27th at 10 a.m. and the rain day is October 11th also.

[8:47] That would be at 10:00 a.m. >> Move it.

[8:51] » All in favor? >> Irighty.

[8:55] Requested for the use of Jones Roadfield for a private event hosted by Ocean

[9:00] Residential Community Homes Youth Justice Commission.

[9:04] » So, the Youth Justice Commission is asking for permission to use the Jones

[9:08] Road Field from October 7th to October 9th. Um they're looking to host a

[9:11] private event for their residents and families um for a resident funfest. The

[9:15] event itself would be on October 8th. Um but the tent setup and breakdown would

[9:19] be the day prior and the day after. So they're asking for 3-day use of the um

[9:25] » Anybody got any comments or >> Well, I I have I have a question before

[9:28] we go any further. We've we've Have we ever done this before?

[9:31] » They've never they've never asked the the justice uh commission.

[9:35] » This is their first time doing this event.

[9:36] » Okay. this. So, they're just trying to, you know, encourage the families to get

[9:40] together um with the the residents at that facility, you know, and encourage a

[9:45] family day. It's not a community public event.

[9:48] » That's what I wanted to know. It's not community.

[9:51] » It's right in their backyard, so to speak. Um because some of these, you

[9:54] know, they don't want to take them off site, you know, um so they thought it

[9:58] was better to do that. >> All right. Is this in conjunction with

[10:01] the facility that's behind it? >> Yeah. Where where Ocean Fields is. Yes.

[10:07] » Okay. Motion to approve or deny. >> Move it. Move. Second.

[10:10] » To approve. >> To approve.

[10:11] » Approve. >> All in favor?

[10:13] » I. >> All right.

[10:17] Special use permit for the VFW historical event on September 13th,

[10:22] 2026. >> The VFW is hosting a historical event

[10:25] for General John Lacy. It would be on September 13th from 9:00 a.m. to 400

[10:30] p.m. The event is rain or shine, and the event will include uh vendors, a food

[10:34] truck, music, pony rides, a children's musket drill, his story um history

[10:38] lectures and films, and um a couple other historical I think there's a a

[10:42] musket drill um for children, and another uh event for children to

[10:47] particip. Yes,

[10:51] » they have the county um involved in it. the county Tim Hart in the county

[10:55] historical society. They have a Liz McGrath. They've been talking to the

[10:58] Lacy Historical Society. They have some reenactments going on, glass blowing,

[11:02] all of those types of things. There is a fee for adults and children to get in,

[11:06] but it's very family oriented and it look they have a gentleman coming in I

[11:10] think from Pennsylvania to be General John Lacy uh to do some reactive work.

[11:15] » Okay. >> Second.

[11:17] » All in favor? >> I

[11:20] further business. Motion to >> Okay. Motion journ caucus meeting.

[11:24] » Move into the regular meeting. >> All in favor?

[11:27] » I. >> Okay. Township of Lacy Township meeting

[11:31] August 13, 2026. Adequate notice of this meeting has been given in accordance

[11:36] with the open public meetings act pursuant to public laws of 1975.

[11:42] Said notice was advertised in the Espbury Park Press and the Beacons and

[11:45] was posted on the bulletin board showing the time and place of the meeting.

[11:51] Okay, we got first reading of ordinance 2026-14

[11:55] amending chapter 165 entitled docks. >> Ordinance of the township of Lacy County

[12:01] of Ocean State of New Jersey amending and supplementing chapter 165 of the

[12:05] township code of the township of Lacy entitled docks. This um ordinance is to

[12:09] amend some of the language so that the code book matches the um lease agreement

[12:13] and the application that um we give to residents.

[12:16] » Move it. >> Second.

[12:18] » Second, >> Mrs. Juliano. Yes,

[12:20] » Mr. Keratollo. >> Yes,

[12:21] » Mr. McDonald. >> Yes.

[12:23] » Uh, Mr. Laay. >> Yes. And I'm glad to see this uh

[12:28] ordinance tightened up. First reading ordinance 2615 amending chapter 335

[12:34] entitled zoning. >> Ordinance of the township of Lacy County

[12:37] of Ocean State of New Jersey amending and supplementing chapter 335 of the

[12:41] township code of the township of Lacy >> entitled zoning so as to revise the

[12:46] regulations pertaining to fences. Um this is to um revise the regulations

[12:51] pertaining to fences. Specifically to clarify that fences don't include trees,

[12:55] plantings or other ve vegetative materials um by deleting the term

[12:59] screens or planted in various sections of the existing ordinance.

[13:02] » Move it. >> Mrs. Juliano,

[13:05] » yes. >> Mr. McDonald,

[13:06] » yes. >> Mr. Herito,

[13:08] » yes. >> Mr. La,

[13:10] » yes.

[13:14] Okay. Second reading ordinance 2026-13

[13:19] setting salaries for non-bargaining employees.

[13:24] » Ordinance of the Township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey amending an

[13:27] ordinance entitled an ordinance of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State

[13:30] of New Jersey affixing and determining the salaries, wages and compensation of

[13:34] the officers, employees and members of the governing body of the township. This

[13:38] is for um the non-bargaining employees and this is second reading. So open the

[13:41] floor to public comment. Seeing none.

[13:44] » Seeing none motion to close the floor. >> Second.

[13:48] » Second. >> Okay. All in favor? I

[13:50] » motion on the ordinance. >> Move it.

[13:52] » Second. >> Mr. Kerato.

[13:54] » Yes. >> Mr. McDonald.

[13:55] » Yes. >> Mrs. Juliano.

[13:56] » Yes. >> Mr. Lret.

[13:57] » Yes. Resolution 2026-250

[14:01] urging for state legislation requiring the state to reimburse

[14:05] municipalities for the 100 dis 100% disabled veterans

[14:11] property tax exemption >> resolution of the township of Lacy

[14:15] County of Ocean State of New Jersey urging the New Jersey legislature and

[14:19] governor to enact legislation requiring the state of New Jersey to fully

[14:23] reimburse municipalities for the cost of the 100% disabled veterans property tax

[14:27] exemption. Move it.

[14:30] » Second. >> Second.

[14:32] » Mr. Kerata. >> Yes.

[14:34] » Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes.

[14:35] » Mr. McDonald. >> Yes.

[14:36] » Let me just say something. This is This is something I don't think people

[14:40] realize. We're not against veterans in any way, shape, or form.

[14:44] » What we are against is that the state is demanding that we do this. And I believe

[14:50] last year this cost us $1.5 million. Okay. We're not against veterans in any

[14:58] way, shape, or form, particularly those that are disabled. The state wants to

[15:02] mandate this. Reimburse us that. That's the only fair way.

[15:07] » Yes. If I could, Mayor, and I'm glad Mr. McDonald spoke up. There's Listen, Mr.

[15:12] McDonald's, we all have military people or veterans in our family, most of us.

[15:18] » This is another unfunded mandate. And this meeting alone, unless I'm mistaken,

[15:22] and administrator Lar will uh correct me, I think there was $68,000 worth of

[15:30] veteran exemptions, 100% disabled just in this meeting alone. This this a

[15:34] regular pedestrian meeting in um and they're all important meetings, but this

[15:38] is just one meeting out of this whole year. So, and look, we love our

[15:43] veterans. If the state makes us do this, they can't keep handing down unfunded

[15:48] mandates and then tell us how to do everything, how to run everything, what

[15:51] we're allowed to do with our land, what we have to close during CO. Come and

[15:55] give us the money. You want us to do it, come and give us the money so we can

[15:58] support these veterans. That's all. Thank you.

[16:00] » You're welcome. Anybody else? >> Yeah. So, basically, so everybody's real

[16:05] clear. It's nice and simple. We're just asking the state to reimburse the money

[16:10] for the people that we support. We support the programs, but in simple

[16:14] terms, it's just we would like the money back so that it doesn't fall in the laps

[16:19] of everybody else in our community. >> The reimbursement for the $250 senior

[16:24] tax deduction that seniors can get and the $250 veterans deductions that they

[16:29] get, the state does reimburse us for that. Of course, they take the smallest

[16:33] one out of the pot, >> right?

[16:35] » And I got and I probably should vote yes.

[16:39] » Thank you. >> You should.

[16:42] All righty. Resolution 2026 251 supporting the designation of the

[16:48] Malikica River and his tributaries as components of the National Wild and

[16:53] Scenic River System. >> Resolution of the Township of Lacy

[16:56] County of Ocean State of New Jersey supporting the designation of the Mica

[17:00] River and its tributaries as components of the National Wild and Scenic River

[17:04] Systems. >> Move it. Second,

[17:06] » Mrs. Juliano. Yes. >> Mr. McDonald. Yes.

[17:08] » Mr. Cerutoo. >> Yes.

[17:09] » Mr. La. >> Yes. And this is just another thing that

[17:13] uh helps uh keep our wildlife and and rivers uh protected.

[17:19] » Resolution 26 2026 252 approving the fourth round rehabilitation program

[17:26] manual. >> Resolution of the township of Lacy

[17:29] County of Ocean State of New Jersey approving the fourth round

[17:31] rehabilitation program manual. >> Move.

[17:34] » Second. >> Mr. McDonald.

[17:36] » Yes. >> Mrs. Juliano.

[17:37] » Yes. >> Mr. Cerutoo.

[17:39] » Yes. Mr. La. >> Yes.

[17:43] Resolution 2026 253 authorizing the filing of an application with the Ocean

[17:49] County Community Block Grant Committee. Move

[17:53] » resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey

[17:57] authorizing the filing of an application with the Ocean County Community Block

[18:00] Grant Committee for various projects related to handicap accessibility

[18:04] improvements. >> Move. Second.

[18:06] » Mr. McDonald. >> Yes.

[18:07] » Mr. Curuto. >> Yes.

[18:08] » Mrs. Miss Juliano. >> Yes.

[18:09] » Mr. Laay. >> Yes. Resolution 2026 253 authorized

[18:15] Oops, that's the same one. Resolution 2026 254 authorizing the execution of

[18:21] amendment with CJ Hess Inc. for the Hayne Street Improvement Project.

[18:26] » Resolution of the Township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey

[18:29] authorizing the execution of an amendment to the contract with CJ Hus

[18:33] for the Hane Street Road Improvement Project.

[18:35] » Move it. >> Second.

[18:37] » Mr. McDonald. Yes, >> Mr. Kerutoo.

[18:39] » Yes, >> Mrs. Juliano.

[18:40] » Yes, >> Mr. Laay.

[18:42] » Yes. >> Resolution 2026 255 appointing a

[18:47] full-time account clerk in the finance department.

[18:50] » Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey

[18:53] appointing Thailand Demato to the position of full-time account clerk in

[18:56] the finance office for the township of Lacy.

[18:59] » Move it. >> Second.

[19:00] » Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes.

[19:01] » Mr. Certo. >> Yes.

[19:02] » Mr. McDonald. >> Yes.

[19:04] » Mr. Laay. >> Yes. Resolution 2026 256 authorizing the

[19:09] employment of a seasonal employee of the department of public works.

[19:13] » Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey

[19:16] authorizing the employment of a seasonal employee for the Department of Public

[19:19] Works. >> Second,

[19:21] » Mr. McDonald. >> Yes.

[19:23] » Mr. Certolo. >> Yes.

[19:25] » Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes.

[19:26] » Mr. La. >> Yes. Resolution

[19:29] 2026 257 authorizing the assignment of a tax sale certificate.

[19:35] » Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey

[19:38] authorizing the assignment of tax sale certificate

[19:42] um 2011-0478.

[19:45] » Move it. >> Second.

[19:47] » Mrs. Juliano, >> yes.

[19:49] » Mr. McDonald, >> yes.

[19:50] » Mr. Curuto, >> yes.

[19:52] » Mr. Laay, >> yes. Resolution 2026 258 authorizing the

[19:57] tax collector to cancel taxes due to dis disabled veterans tax exemption.

[20:03] » Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean, State of New Jersey,

[20:06] authorizing the tax collector to cancel 2026 taxes due on a prop on properties

[20:11] granted the 100% disabled veteran exemption and refund the resulting

[20:14] credit balance. >> Move it.

[20:16] » Move it. Second, >> Mrs. Juliano.

[20:18] » Yes. >> Mr. McDonald.

[20:20] » Yes. >> Mr. Cutollo.

[20:21] » Yes. >> Mr. La.

[20:22] » Yes. Resolution

[20:27] 2026 259 authorizing the placement of a lean on block 1272 lot 30.

[20:34] » Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey

[20:37] accepting the certification of the director of public works concerning

[20:40] costs incurred in the removal of debris and the cleaning up of the property

[20:43] located at block 1272 lot 30 and authorizing the placement of a lean

[20:48] against said property for said costs. >> Move to second. Mr. Keratollo,

[20:53] » yes. >> Mr. McDonald,

[20:54] » yes. >> Mrs. Juliano,

[20:56] » yes. >> Mr. Laorray,

[20:57] » yes. >> Resolution 2026 260 authorizing a

[21:02] release of a performance bond. >> Resolution of the township of Lacy

[21:06] County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the release of a performance

[21:09] bond for White Oaks at Lacy Grocery Portion Project.

[21:13] » Move it. >> Second,

[21:15] » Mr. McDonald. >> Yes.

[21:16] » Mr. Certo, >> yes.

[21:18] » Mrs. Juliano, >> yes.

[21:19] » Mr. Laray, >> yes. Resolution 2026261

[21:24] authorizing a refund of deposit monies. >> Resolution of the township of Lacy

[21:28] County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the refund of deposits held

[21:31] for the use of municipal facilities. >> Move it.

[21:35] » Second. >> Mrs. Gulino.

[21:37] » Yes. >> Mr. Futoo.

[21:38] » Yes. >> Mr. McDonald.

[21:40] » Yes. >> Mr. Laay.

[21:41] » Yes. Resolution 2026 262 authorizing the payment of township bills. Resolution of

[21:49] the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the

[21:52] payment of township bills. Move. >> Second.

[21:56] » Mr. McDonald. >> Yes.

[21:57] » Mrs. Juliano. >> Yes.

[21:58] » Mr. Kerto. >> Yes.

[21:59] » Mr. Laay. >> Yes. Next is monthly reports.

[22:04] » Sorry. >> Okay. For the month of July, the

[22:07] municipal clerk's office collected receipts in the amount of $10,397.50.

[22:12] Uh road opening permits for the month of July were collected in the amount of

[22:15] $4,320. Recycling commodity was collected in the

[22:18] amount of $1,317.50. Truck parking was collected in the

[22:22] amount of $100. And boat slips were connect collected in the amount of $390.

[22:30] The municipal court for the month of June collected receipts in the amount of

[22:34] $17,4242

[22:38] and the department of community development for the month of July

[22:40] collected receipts in the amount of $71,19.

[22:43] Motion to accept the reports is read. Second. All in

[22:46] » favor? I >> I.

[22:49] » Motion to approve the caucus meet meeting minutes of July 9th, 2026.

[22:55] » Second. >> All in favor?

[22:58] » I. >> Motion to approve the township meeting

[23:00] minutes of July 9th, 2026. >> Move it.

[23:04] » Second. >> All in favor?

[23:06] » I. >> Motion to approve executive session

[23:09] meeting of July 9th, 2026. >> Move it.

[23:13] » Second. >> All in favor? I

[23:17] » motion to approve the caucus minute meetings of July 30th, 2026.

[23:22] » Move it. >> Second.

[23:24] » All in favor? >> I

[23:26] » motion to approve the executive session meetings minutes of July 30th, 2026.

[23:31] » Move it. Second. >> All in favor?

[23:34] » I. >> Okay. Motion to approve membership in

[23:36] the Fork River Volunteer Fire Company for Drew Douglas Robertson.

[23:41] » Move it. >> Second.

[23:43] » All in favor? I >> and congratulations and thank you to

[23:47] Drew. >> All righty. Any addons?

[23:52] » No add-ons. >> Could I ask one question?

[23:54] » Sure. >> The board up here direct um

[23:58] » people's attention to resolution 2026-254.

[24:04] I'm looking at the third whereas where it says uh this will result in a

[24:08] decrease of the original contract price by 30,36188.

[24:14] Then you move down towards the bottom of the page and it says it'll provide an

[24:19] increase to the original contract price of the same number. So was that a typo?

[24:24] » Typo. >> It's a typo.

[24:26] » It's supposed to be an increase if I'm not mistaken because it was for

[24:28] additional drainage work. Am I right, Amy?

[24:30] » Correct. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[24:31] » Okay. So it's for probably the the template that we pulled up, the last one

[24:35] was probably a decrease and it probably forgot, but yes, it is an increase due

[24:39] to the additional drainage work that needed to be done on Main Street with

[24:43] the crossing of the one pipe >> and I apologize for not bringing that up

[24:47] earlier like days ago, but thank you for the clarification.

[24:52] » I just noticed it now. >> All right, there is no add-ons. Okay, we

[24:57] got comments from the public and from the committee.

[25:01] » Excuse me. Yes, >> I need to change my vote on the campaign

[25:05] of the township. I have to abstain on T0035

[25:11] to follow.

[25:16] » All right. Comments from the elected officials and members of the audience

[25:20] are invited at this time.

[25:27] » Please uh just state your name and address.

[25:30] » Sure. My name is Joe Lamb. I live in Brick. I've got a granddaughter that

[25:35] lives here in town on Alpine. I've got a sister that lives in town and um her son

[25:42] got the Army Commenation Medal for fighting in Afghanistan. He went to the

[25:46] school system here. I'm a vet Marine veteran myself. But anyway, what I'm

[25:51] want to talk about is that, you know, you're proposing at this YMCA center for

[25:57] the 41.5 million dollars and the people in this town have been hit with with

[26:02] plenty of taxes over the last couple years. Just over the last three years,

[26:06] the municipal taxes have been 16% and you use $6 million of the surplus in

[26:12] order to get it down there. For every million dollars of surplus that you

[26:17] used, if you hadn't used it, it would have raised it by another 3%. You only

[26:22] have 6.7 million left for next year. And the thing about is everything running

[26:28] equal, that 7.7 is going to be gone. whether you divide up the six million

[26:34] over next year and reduce it with three million or and three million thereafter.

[26:41] After that, you're going to be raising the municipal tax rate 20%. Uh the

[26:47] county taxes the county over the last five years have raised our county taxes

[26:52] 49.3% practically 10% a year. And and it and

[26:57] the thing about it is that they say that they kept the tax rate stable. They put

[27:02] it in the Asbury Park Press. That's how they write it up. But as you know,

[27:05] they're dealing with 33 towns in this county. And to keep things fair, they

[27:10] use the present value of the properties, not when you assessed it. All of the 33

[27:16] towns used that assessment that was done. And so you can't claim that when

[27:21] you have your taxes. They used the $40 million to reduce it and they only have

[27:27] 40 million left. If they use use that next year, all of it or again how they

[27:34] divide it up, it could be because they're already hitting us with 9.3%

[27:38] this year. If they didn't reduce that 40 million surplus, it would have been in

[27:44] the neighborhood of 17% increase. And so looking at next year, if they keep

[27:50] everything the same, it's going to be a 12% increase. And after that, then we're

[27:55] going to be running into another 20% county tax rate increase. So we should

[28:02] have ne you should have never thought about having this u project going

[28:07] through. If the YMCA thinks that it's viable, then they should take it on.

[28:12] That's what they do. Not the town. the town shouldn't be involved with that at

[28:16] all. You're boosting people's taxes on top of everything they're being hit

[28:21] with. And from what I understand from talking to my relatives, they said the

[28:25] school taxes raised 27% over the last 3 years. They're choking on taxes and they

[28:32] need help and this should never have gone through. So, I really hope you

[28:37] take, you know, uh, you know, I I told my relatives I was going to do this

[28:42] hopefully as a public message that people vote it down because like I said,

[28:47] it's just too much on all of them. And, you know, getting back to it, you know,

[28:51] and I understand what you're talking about with veterans. My father landed at

[28:55] D-Day. I I've they've been in my as a Marine veteran of Vietnam, I did two

[29:00] tours, 68 and 69. They've been in my heart eight times. I'm dealing with all

[29:05] kinds of stuff, but you know, this is you got to look at what the people are

[29:10] dealing with in this town and and really this county. So, I just hope you keep

[29:15] that in mind. I really appreciate your time today.

[29:17] » Thank you. >> Thank you very much.

[29:18] » Thank you for your time, SIR.

[29:25] » YES. Thank you for your comments, uh, Steve.

[29:44] Steve Borl, Forker River, New Jersey. I represent the taxpayers that are 100%

[29:53] opposed to the YMCA. Keeping in mind, our township is $32

[29:58] million in debt currently and growing. As Mr. Kenneth always tells me, taxes

[30:05] are always going to go up. So, get be be like, "That's the way it is." But it's

[30:10] not. What I want to know, I've researched

[30:15] this YMCA thing for over a month now. I've yet to find any nonprofit

[30:22] of the YMCA or any other one that got free land, a free building

[30:30] paid by township taxes, and we got to pay a membership fee, too. They're not a

[30:37] nonprofit. They're a self profit. They have administrators and a CEO all

[30:45] enjoying sixdigit salaries. I wish I knew that when we did have a few of them

[30:50] here so I could have cornered them at this meeting when they came up to talk.

[30:55] A nonprofit is something that's done for free. Just like they say with their

[31:02] literature, which is untrue, that the money gets recirculated back to that

[31:07] facility. Maybe some of it does, but a lot of it

[31:11] goes to pay for the benefits. Benefits that none of us that I've ever in my

[31:18] career, and I spent a lot of time looking at a lot of different things, no

[31:23] one in my career ever got a free 12% of their base salary put into their

[31:29] retirement account. They are selfserving the organization.

[31:36] And you know what? I want to offer my services to renegotiate that YMCA

[31:44] contract because you all you all got your underwear pulled over your head and

[31:53] agreed to things that no one on earth would agree to. There is no way that any

[32:01] any organization should get a free building, free land,

[32:07] and enjoy all the perks. And we also got to administrate it. We also got to fix

[32:13] it. And it is very untruthful the way you guys worded that that

[32:20] non-binding referendum. As I suggested last meeting, the $45

[32:26] million is the initial initial payment.

[32:32] There is much more money beyond that initial payment. The mortgage, the

[32:37] upkeep. I don't know how many of you all got a swimming pool, but I got a

[32:42] swimming pool and it costs a lot of money to keep that thing running every

[32:45] year. You guys are trying to fool us and it's

[32:50] a disrespect to our intelligence. I'm also here to complain about the

[32:57] $164,000 that the township Oh, don't worry. It

[33:03] came from the opioid front cont uh fund. Oh, it came from the land use fund. I

[33:09] don't care where it came from. That money is still our tax money and you

[33:14] diverted it. I don't know, legally diverted it from people that might have

[33:20] needed that money that are fighting an opioid crisis. I don't know enough about

[33:25] the land use what that is, but I'm going to find out.

[33:31] And I also asked that this $164,000 we paid that company $92,000

[33:40] to draw pictures to make posters that technically if not illegal, they're

[33:48] unethical because you put the township slogan

[33:54] on them things. They should not be put on them posters until after

[34:00] it gets approved. Not before. You're using our tax money against us again

[34:06] with those posters. >> That's right.

[34:10] » And I still want to know each one of those companies should have

[34:15] had someone front and center explaining all them thousands of dollars that were

[34:20] spent. And it's all tax money. Whether you got it from the opioid account, the

[34:26] land use account, the outer space account, doesn't matter. It is still tax

[34:32] money. And again, I'll offer my services

[34:37] to renegotiate the YMC contract because you all don't

[34:44] know what you're doing.

[34:53] How y'all doing? Uh Brett Murphy, Fork River. Two questions before I get

[34:58] started. Do you guys choose where you sit?

[35:02] » Do Do we choose? >> Just It happened to be funny because

[35:04] you're all based on height. >> It's assigned in January. So,

[35:09] » yeah, that's why usually I'm down that end because I got the seat pumped up.

[35:12] » Fair enough. Uh something I ask most of my clients just one out of five, how

[35:17] you're feeling today. just kind of have an understanding of who I'm talking to

[35:19] and how you're feeling. So, how you feeling today? Five being the best, one

[35:22] being the worst. >> Okay.

[35:24] » One out of five. >> You said one to five.

[35:26] » Sorry. >> Can you speak, please?

[35:28] » Four. Sorry. >> How you feeling?

[35:32] » Fortunate to be alive with air in my lungs. Standing upright. Great.

[35:37] » Mr. Connors, >> what was it?

[35:42] » How you feeling? >> Not playing games.

[35:45] » What's the point of this? Just a question.

[35:49] » Just want to know. >> My turn.

[35:51] » Yeah. >> Five.

[35:52] » Cool. Because I'll tell you what, I'm happy to be here talking to you guys. I

[35:57] appreciate your comments, their comments all the time.

[36:01] » It's an honor to be sitting here. Not all going to agree, but

[36:04] » yeah. >> And I'm still breathing yourself

[36:08] » five all the time. >> Okay. Uh, so what I want to know is do

[36:13] you think data centers are good for this town? Well, I think what a good first

[36:18] » data centers. >> Oh, I can I can tell you right that I

[36:22] mean >> I don't like the premise of them at all.

[36:25] » Okay. >> Oh, with that said, can

[36:27] » I I will say something. >> Mhm.

[36:29] » Data centers is something that and I don't know if you have been at some

[36:33] previous meetings or watched them. >> Yeah.

[36:36] » This has blown up because of social media like most stuff does. One, data

[36:41] centers are not an approved use in this town. Number one. Number two, the mayor

[36:48] at a courtesy let the public know that he was invited to a meeting of mayors

[36:55] who have property in the Pelands. >> Mhm.

[36:58] » On a Zoom meeting regarding data centers. He was only took time of

[37:04] his day was only one of three mayors out of this whole state that went and that's

[37:09] all he was letting the public know. Um, and it's basically a resolution

[37:15] uh being uh proposed of restricting no data centers in the Pineelands. It's as

[37:22] simple as that. There's no talk of data centers at this end. Uh

[37:28] that that's all it was. And you know, he was he's trying to be

[37:34] upfront about them. And even though you know the power plant keeps coming up,

[37:39] the power plant is nowhere's near being redeveloped. We're talking 6 to 8 years

[37:43] away. >> And even if something was to go there,

[37:48] remember data centers are not an approved

[37:52] use in this town. Myself, I don't like the premise of them at all,

[37:57] but I'm just speaking for myself. restio.

[38:01] » Okay, first of all, let me just say the Ptech came out and said that the small

[38:05] modular reactors won't be ready until 20 36. So that's 10 years away. Nothing is

[38:11] going in there until the small nuclear reactors are put in place.

[38:16] » Okay. >> Okay. So that's 10 years away. Who knows

[38:19] what the technology is going to be? However, what I have said from day one,

[38:24] they need to be self-contained. status. They have it's like a freon type liquid

[38:29] that they use now in the newer ones to cool it so they're not drawing water.

[38:34] And the other one is they need to build their own power supply. If they get

[38:37] enough power and they need to sell it back to the grid, so be it. I would vote

[38:42] for something like that. But if they're going to draw water or they're going to

[38:46] use our electricity, no. >> I'm in an agreement with Mr. McDonald.

[38:52] But I I will tell you this, and I I don't think they're ever going

[38:57] to happen here, and I don't think there's the political support for it

[39:01] ever to happen here. And the deputy mayor said it's not an approved use. But

[39:06] I will tell you this, a lot of people are here today because of the cost and

[39:09] taxes. We got guys in the back that are are public servants and and so on and so

[39:14] forth. There's a lot of needs. We got part of our town with roads that are

[39:17] underwater every time it drizzles. A lot of needs. So, I'll tell you this.

[39:22] If there were a data center in somewhere in the south part of town across Route 9

[39:29] near or around the uh industrial park, you wouldn't see it, know it was there,

[39:36] you wouldn't smell it, and you wouldn't hear it, and it wouldn't bother a single

[39:40] single family home in this town. But what it would do is that anyone up here

[39:46] would drill down on a community host benefit agreement. And in Pennsylvania,

[39:50] in one town, what that looked like was 3,400 a kid for schools. And we have

[39:56] schools with serious problems. So when guys like you, no offense, come up and

[40:01] you don't like one ounce of what we do when we develop. No one wanted and

[40:06] initially a Walmart. No one wanted everyone had to go to Tom River to buy a

[40:11] nail or a hammer. There was no there was no Home Depot.

[40:14] » There's no hardware store. years years ago. Well, generally speaking, now

[40:18] there's the amount of services we have here are are just far and above. And

[40:24] when you look at our Route 9 corridor, I always say this, it looks better than

[40:28] our neighbors. No offense against our neighbors to the north and to the south,

[40:31] ours looks great. It's planned well. Is it perfect? No, it's not perfect. But

[40:36] between Mr. McDonald, Mr. Canis uh deputy mayor um Laray

[40:42] there's a little over 150 years of land use and then we have a former

[40:47] commissioner with another 40 years who serves on our land use board. So yeah,

[40:52] sometimes, you know, when people come up here and they say no, no, never, never,

[40:55] never. I say have I'm not saying I'm going to be for data centers, but I'm

[41:00] saying we listen, we're Americans. We're the greatest people on earth. The

[41:04] greatest gift to this planet is being an American citizen. We put somebody on the

[41:08] moon 58 years ago, right? So there's no way we can't do something like that. If

[41:15] it if our backs were against the wall, we could do it. Am I going to vote for

[41:18] it? No. Isn't it an approved use? No. But I want to keep money in your pocket.

[41:23] Everybody's going to come up here tonight and talk about the YMCA. I want

[41:26] to take care of the cops and the firemen in the back. And you have to bend a

[41:31] little bit sometimes to get money back in the coffers. Okay. The technolog is

[41:38] there. We're second to none. People talk they want about China, Germany,

[41:41] Switzerland. Money in my money in my pockets on our It's American

[41:46] exceptionalism. I know we know how to do it because we're the greatest there is.

[41:50] No one even comes close. So, I'm getting a little off on a tangent. It's not

[41:54] going to happen. But if it was in that if it was down there in south part of

[41:58] town on the other side of Route 9, you drive up and down Route 9, you'd never

[42:01] even know it was there. Thank you, Mayor.

[42:05] » We honestly, this conversation had never come up. It was simply what our mayor

[42:09] had gone to a meeting and was just advising. We had no conversations

[42:14] on my life about the data center. So it wasn't a conversation that we've even

[42:19] had to talk about because it's not anything that was on our agenda to put

[42:25] through. So at no point are we looking for a data center.

[42:29] » But have you discussed it since? >> No. No one approached us. I didn't mean

[42:32] to co-op the floor for my >> No. No. You're fine. No one no one has

[42:36] there's been no conversation about this because it's not on our agenda. We

[42:40] haven't looked into it. We haven't decided this is something we should have

[42:43] down the line. It's not been on our agenda. So Can we commit to a ban on it?

[42:49] » And I mean, >> there's things we're looking at as we

[42:53] move on. This is so far off. Yes. If we all decide on a band and everything

[42:58] because even when this came up the first night that that uh the mayor brought it

[43:01] up, I personally myself said I don't like the idea of it.

[43:06] » I mean, my you know, people get tired of hearing it, but my family's been here

[43:10] since 1938. to your point. So the issue is if we're not ahead of it, it gets to

[43:15] us before we can stop it. >> You're you're exactly right,

[43:18] » but we're so far ahead of it, it's not even a discussion.

[43:22] » Okay. We got a lot of lot of other things.

[43:26] » The public is starting to make it a discussion. My but I want to tell my

[43:30] feelings are I don't ever want to see one here. Okay.

[43:33] » Okay. Because I live in this community because it's not industrial. So, so to

[43:38] have to give you an interesting fact though, just so sorry to interrupt you,

[43:42] sir, >> but even if we banned it, I'm just going

[43:45] to let you know like everything else in this lovely state of New Jersey,

[43:49] » they can still come in and >> push it for us.

[43:52] » That can be said about anything. And actually, committing to a ban would tell

[43:55] us that you're with us on it, >> right?

[43:57] » Well, but but we weren't on we weren't with we weren't against you before it.

[44:01] It's already banned out in the Pineelands.

[44:04] » Yes, we're not talking about Pineland. It's banned here too, right now,

[44:09] » unless we change something. If we were all of a sudden to go, but we're not

[44:12] going to. It's not an allowed use now. Nowhere's in town. So, you don't have to

[44:17] put anything in the code book to say what's in the code book when you read

[44:21] the zoning descriptions as to what's allowed are the allowed uses. Nowhere's

[44:25] in the code book does it say data centers are an allowed use

[44:29] » unless you decide to change it. >> Well, this is

[44:31] » right. And then you would have a voice during the time that that ordinance is

[44:34] introduced at sec I mean uh second reading adoption to and planning board

[44:39] also has to weigh in on a change on zoning

[44:42] » before we can have a final adoption. >> Let me just say this I would be against

[44:46] any prohibitions of of that redevelopment property down there the

[44:50] power any right now. That's the main going to be the main driving force of

[44:55] the economy in Lacy Township going going going forward because of the the four

[45:01] small modular reactors going in. That's about a thousand employees, a lot of

[45:05] money coming in. So you want us to touch something and prohibit something that we

[45:11] don't even know what the technology is going to be like in 10 years that could

[45:14] actually hurt Lacy Township. No, let it be as it is. Let you just shook your

[45:20] head. Why do you say that? Because what you're the the rate at which they're

[45:24] being built is outpacing anybody's ability.

[45:27] » Do you know how many do you know how many data centers in the state of New

[45:29] Jersey today >> as of right now? Six.

[45:32] » How many? >> Damn.

[45:35] » No. How about 714? 714 D in the state of New Jersey right

[45:40] now. And by the way, >> server farms or data centers?

[45:43] » What? >> Server farms or data centers?

[45:45] » AI data centers. >> Data centers.

[45:46] » AI data center. >> Every research university has a data

[45:49] center >> by far. AI data centers.

[45:52] » Yes, that's the one we're worried about. >> Now, let me finish it. The the the phone

[45:55] call that our mayor was on was for West of the Parkway, which is in the pine

[45:59] lane. Yes. As we have said, why would we change something that would hurt Lacy

[46:04] could possibly hurt Lacy Township? >> Money.

[46:09] » What do you mean? We're not If we change it where they can't do anything, we're

[46:12] not going to get any money for that. >> If you allow a data center to be built

[46:15] here, the idea is that you're going to get money.

[46:16] » Right now, they can't be built >> right now. That's the issue. We're

[46:20] looking for a commitment on a ban. >> Do you know what the future's going to

[46:23] hold? >> I want I don't want to bet that you guys

[46:26] won't do anything. Some of you aren't here to stop it.

[46:29] » Can I let me let me just say >> under the present state of law in the

[46:34] state of New Jersey unless something is >> yes

[46:36] » permitted is prohibited. >> So as it stands the state of law in the

[46:41] state in the township of Lacy is that data centers are not permitted.

[46:45] Therefore they're per prohibited. So, as you're stating,

[46:48] » they can enact a ban. Okay? They can specify that they're not permitted,

[46:53] which they don't have to do. That language would be superolous because

[46:57] they're already not permitted. It would not stop an applicant for filing a use

[47:03] variance. No matter how you change the ordinance, you agree with that, right?

[47:08] » I was asking. So, it can be changed with the variance. They can apply build.

[47:12] » They can whether you ban it >> ultimately for is super It gets whe

[47:18] excuse me sir. >> I'm not agreeing. I'm not disagreeing

[47:22] but like looking for so many we've already

[47:25] » I'm just trying to explain. >> Of course our zoning won't allow it.

[47:29] » One person at a time Mr. Connor just >> I'm trying to explain.

[47:32] » I get it. >> Okay. Whether we change the ordinance or

[47:36] not will not prohibit an applicant for coming in with a use variance. But it

[47:43] will tell us whether or not you're willing to fight with us. If they try to

[47:45] apply and regardless,

[47:49] » it makes no difference. >> What what you'll have to be what you'll

[47:54] have to watch for and you need to keep your eye on the state legislature

[47:58] » because if they make it an inherent use, then no matter what we do in any

[48:05] municipality in the state of New Jersey, a person applies for a use fans, they're

[48:09] denied. they'll go to court and under the doctrine of inherent use they'll

[48:14] probably get their application approved. So what I'm suggesting is you need to be

[48:19] standing in more than one place >> in your quest

[48:24] » to prohibit right and the governing body I think has made their point. They're

[48:28] not changing the ordinance to ever allow it

[48:32] » as of right as as of right now. Peggy, did you want to add something?

[48:36] » No. >> Okay. One of the things, and I'm glad

[48:39] I'm seeing younger people coming up here getting involved and asking questions,

[48:43] because all of us, and I'm sure you're already learning, no matter what

[48:47] decisions are made at the ground roots, the state and federal government roll

[48:53] over us like uh steamrollers all the time. As we know, in government also,

[48:59] money, lobbyists, and power roll over you. We can do whatever we want. Like

[49:06] Mr. Connor just said, and let me finish because I know you're ready to say

[49:09] something. >> The problem is is number one, by the

[49:14] time data centers are sitting here, you want a commitment out of us.

[49:18] » I can almost tell you, >> we got to talk to him.

[49:20] » 10 years from now, you're not going to see any of us up here. Okay? I just

[49:25] turned 70 this week. No matter what decision I make today,

[49:31] whoever sits in this seat next can make whatever decision they want. whether

[49:35] it's you, somebody else, there's a lot of good people and that's why I want

[49:40] people, like you said, let's get let's be proactive, but let's get proactive

[49:44] younger people involved because things aren't always working the way we need

[49:49] them. Things can be changed constantly. You've already heard out of my mouth, I

[49:54] will never support them, no matter where they are. But Mr. Connor is right. No

[50:00] matter whether we say yes or no at this point,

[50:04] the way the law works is they can't happen right now. And even with the

[50:10] board of adjustment, if they got a comm or the zoning board for a change of use

[50:15] variance, it depends on who's sitting there at that time.

[50:19] » Yes. >> So then of course the public input and

[50:22] everything else. I mean, it's just the way it works. I know you're looking for

[50:26] a big support thing. I'm telling you, I sub I support what you're asking, but

[50:32] that's just me. But things can change. And when we say we haven't had a

[50:38] tremendous amount of discussion over this, one of the reasons is there's

[50:41] other things more pressing right now on the table because this is so far off for

[50:46] us. Nobody's asked, nobody suggested it. It all came out of a simple courtesy

[50:53] Zoom meeting that the mayor talked about and social media took it and ran for it

[50:59] because the day

[51:05] » caucus meeting was posted that was on the agenda.

[51:10] Social media lacy chatter had data centers being built in Lacy and all it

[51:14] was was Steve was going to talk about the conversation he had there. So, we

[51:18] didn't even make it to this meeting. >> Some of us only heard about even his

[51:22] meeting a couple hours before here, >> but by breakfast because it's posted our

[51:28] agenda, we were getting data centers built and we didn't even know it.

[51:34] » You did maybe or whoever. I mean, shame on me. I am one of them weirdos that

[51:38] does not do social media. >> So, just to be clear, you're saying no

[51:42] one has approached anyone on this council about

[51:44] » my knowledge. No. >> No.

[51:46] » Nope. And have any of you been to a data center within the state?

[51:49] » No. >> Like the one in Vinland?

[51:51] » I don't care to because I don't want one.

[51:53] » Would you be willing to meet me down there to see what it's like to live next

[51:55] to one? >> Nope. Because I as long as I'm living

[51:59] » do with this >> will never support one. It's as simple

[52:01] as that. I don't care what it was like. >> Are you willing to put it in writing?

[52:05] » I ain't putting crap in writing. You just heard me on the tape.

[52:08] » It's on record. It's on It's on a record right now.

[52:10] » On a record. Yeah, >> it's in the It's in the minutes. I mean,

[52:14] » that's just my feeling. There was 4,000 people in town when I

[52:18] was little. Now there's over 4,000 school system. The place has exploded.

[52:22] I'm not disappointed in the way that some of it exploded, but people moved

[52:26] here and they have the right to. Lacy Township built a beautiful place to

[52:30] live. That's why we've expanded the way we have. I know Steve down there. We

[52:36] grew up together and we sat grew up in this little town of 4,000 people and now

[52:40] we're 30,000. things change and we don't all like to change but it's called

[52:45] progression and like I say I'm hoping more and more

[52:50] of you young people get involved because we need your input we need your youth we

[52:55] need your thinking >> when you say that though like things

[52:58] change after just saying that you will ensure that there will be no data center

[53:02] here like that kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth like

[53:04] » no I'm not cuz I'm not going to be on this committee long enough for that to

[53:07] happen okay because we're talking 8 10 years away

[53:11] I'm 70 years old. >> I'm only sitting up here because I love

[53:15] this town, not for the $192.30 a week it pays me

[53:20] » every two weeks. >> No, it's every week.

[53:23] » Is it? >> Yeah. And that's before taxes. So if you

[53:26] think you I'm up here for the money, the glory, the pictures, or anything else,

[53:30] you're wrong. I'm here because I love the town. I love them guys in the back.

[53:34] I love the community. This is a great town. Is it perfect? No.

[53:40] But as I said and I repeat it constantly, I will never support them.

[53:44] » So hypothetically, a month from now, we start to see that there's a possibility

[53:49] of one being developed. >> Ask me then.

[53:52] » I come back here, none of y'all are changing your tune. You're all against

[53:55] it. >> I gave you my

[53:58] » Yes. But we come up up to this because like you said, is running it right now

[54:03] and they are open to the possibility of a data center and they will always push

[54:06] things to kind of make >> Mr. McDonald was real clear.

[54:11] Two years ago, I was involved. It was a grant program on uh looking forward

[54:17] towards the redevelopment of the power plant property.

[54:20] » And we're sitting in these Zoom meetings. These were

[54:24] there was no charge for me sitting in these. And I had asked them, you know,

[54:28] because when you're talking redevelopment, is redevelopment going to

[54:30] happen three years from now, five years from now, or 10 years from now?

[54:37] Well, they weren't sure. could be eight, could be 10 years.

[54:41] » You know why? You can't make decisions today for what's good for redevelopment

[54:45] today >> because 10 years from now it could be

[54:49] totally totally different. The world could change. And you know what?

[54:52] » At that time, yes, you're what you're looking for is a

[54:57] blanket thing. It doesn't protect you at that point. I'm going to fight as hard

[55:01] as I can while I'm here to fight. Hopefully, everybody else will. And

[55:05] that's where we're at because WholeTech, the NRC, all that are way, way bigger

[55:12] than we are. It's a thing of principle. It's knowing that we're not going to

[55:17] have the rug pulled out from us should it come to fruition that they start to

[55:21] build one that that they know you guys are with us and not all of a sudden just

[55:25] kind of like step to the side and walk around us.

[55:28] » Well, I think everybody's giving you an answer.

[55:31] an answer, but not a committal answer. Like,

[55:35] » it's not the answer you want to hear. >> Yes. I want to know that you're with us.

[55:38] » You want us to flat out come out and say we're not going to allow them to be

[55:41] built. >> That's what you want.

[55:43] » I would like to know that you're in that indication.

[55:45] » That's what you want. Yes or no? >> I want to know where you stand.

[55:50] » Who said that? >> You said there's a possibility that you

[55:53] don't favor it now, but if something changes, you might.

[55:56] » I said, well, I told you how I feel. >> No problem. time.

[56:00] » Yeah, I'm aware of how that works. >> Stopping the clock when you guys

[56:02] interject. So that's why it's normal 5 minutes.

[56:06] » To be clear, >> August 21st, I'll be down in Vinland. I

[56:11] invite you to come down with me 3 p.m. to see what it's like and I leave it to

[56:14] you. >> Thank you.

[56:15] » Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. And so

[56:18] everybody knows, >> I know that that one went on when we do

[56:23] the five minutes when we respond that clock stop. That's what I do.

[56:28] » We always give back. We don't run the clock while we respond. So, you get your

[56:33] full your full time, >> Mr. Flynn.

[56:39] » Oh, I'm sorry. I would have took ladies first. I didn't see your hand.

[56:44] » Kevin, I I Kevin, I promise I'll get you that coffee.

[56:47] » Ladies Thursdays, Tim. Kevin Flynn, Barnett Pines. Don't worry, in 10 years,

[56:51] good Lord willing, I will be sitting up THERE AND YOU

[57:00] AND KEVIN does know that I'm one of his number one supporters.

[57:04] » Or I like a good fight. >> Or or when I decide not to do this or

[57:08] you just vote me out, he's my replacement.

[57:10] » All right. You're not allowed to talk no more because we got to do a five

[57:12] minutes. >> I'm not going to be up here long. I just

[57:13] have a quick question. >> The individual hired in the finance

[57:16] office, was that to replace someone that left or retired?

[57:19] » No, it's the part-timer that went to fulltime.

[57:21] » Oh, so we added an additional person to the

[57:23] » Yeah, half of a person, so to speak. she's already here um doing our payroll

[57:28] and based on some changes and some additional um you know stuff that has to

[57:32] be done with payroll and other items. Now we we do a lot of the work for the

[57:36] bank. The bank really doesn't bank anymore. So we have to open up our own

[57:39] accounts, create our own things. So there's additional duties and she um is

[57:43] taking on that role. >> Okay. Thank you.

[57:47] » Now it's this young lady's turn. >> Hi guys and ladies.

[57:52] » Hi >> Linda Cafia. You're going to have to

[57:54] speak into the microphone because you're very soft spoken.

[57:58] » Normally I'm not. >> Say that.

[58:01] » Could you say your name again? >> Linda Capitan.

[58:04] » Thank you. >> So, you know, I'm I'm hearing a lot of

[58:06] worry about property taxes, but I also have to appreciate what Mr.

[58:12] McDonald, Mr. Curlah said. You can't hamstring the township. You want lower

[58:18] taxes. you don't want them to to increase, but you want to take away the

[58:23] possibility that you can find ways to increase revenue to offset them. So,

[58:28] what I think I'm really hearing is people are scared about continually

[58:33] increasing property taxes. Fair enough. Also, I hear that we can't handstring

[58:40] us. Now, what I'd like to know is if while you're looking at these increases,

[58:46] electricity, do you have a list of things you're looking at that could

[58:50] potentially decrease property taxes? Just like you're think you know what the

[58:55] increases are going to are you constantly looking at ways to cut costs

[59:00] and if so, is there a list or can we generate a list people's ideas because

[59:05] that would be a way to mitigate

[59:09] » what we do. review the budget. There are, you know, employment costs,

[59:13] unfortunately, are the biggest chunk of the budget. And I don't care if it's our

[59:16] budget, the school budget, you know, county budget. Um, so we do try to

[59:21] reduce employment costs. We do try to give incentives for people to opt out of

[59:24] health benefits. Um, you know, there are laws in place that that do that. Um, we

[59:28] try to work things out going part-time, so then some of those perks aren't there

[59:33] for the employees. Um, >> do you study efficiencies of the staff?

[59:38] » Actually have because I >> actually just got a grant for an

[59:41] efficiency study that we'll be embarking on as soon as we get the RFP done to

[59:45] determine um if some of our offices could be reduced in staff size. And this

[59:49] is for municipal offices, not for police or public works. Um, uh, combined offic

[59:54] » that would be one to look at public works. I

[59:57] » we are down >> I often observe

[1:00:02] » I'm laz on the public works >> and one thing I learned I know you can

[1:00:06] observe what's an indiv

[1:00:12] since I've been there I come to find out we're down approximately probably 10

[1:00:16] people over whether it's through attrition

[1:00:19] » more like 20 >> non-replacement different things like

[1:00:21] that believe it or not this whole town I mean like I've said before is not

[1:00:26] Perfect. A lot of stuff's done. >> Agreed. But a lot of it has is

[1:00:31] investment in in technology or better equipment. So the efficiency could come

[1:00:36] from investment in capital. >> And that's where I want to go with this.

[1:00:39] Our town, most towns around us are envious of our town, the way we maintain

[1:00:44] it, the way we keep it, and the whole bit. And that's all thanks to public

[1:00:48] works. They're down people. We're trying to put people on, but like you wanted it

[1:00:53] as far as efficiency, we're we're doing that right now. But also, we got to be

[1:00:57] careful when we hire somebody because the one cost we can't control is the

[1:01:02] health costs. >> When you got 20 to 30% per employee

[1:01:06] going up every year, that's something we have no

[1:01:11] change on whether you're still working or whether you're retired. So, we're

[1:01:15] dealing with that when we when we look at all this stuff. But as far as public

[1:01:19] works, even the equipment, it wears out. It's going bad. These guys back there

[1:01:24] are stealing parts from one piece to another piece. When you go out and to

[1:01:28] buy a truck and you need a dump truck, you know, it was one thing when we used

[1:01:32] to look at them and yeah, we could get a dump truck for $40,000.

[1:01:36] Now they're 125. So, it's like everything

[1:01:40] it moves up. I mean, we just we're in the process right now of taking an old

[1:01:44] truck that last year we put a new motor in, but the body shot. So, instead of

[1:01:50] spending $150,000 on a new truck, >> we're spending say $20,000

[1:01:56] on putting a new body on it. So, yes, a lot of that stuff's done, but the

[1:02:01] there's costs out there that are that strangle everybody.

[1:02:05] » I know >> that are eating up any

[1:02:07] » I'm not complaining about Lacy. I love Lacy. But you you can hear in everyone's

[1:02:13] voices the concern about one way up and the pace. So if there's a way to

[1:02:21] the pace and find ways I'm thinking we could think outside of the box

[1:02:25] » could be 100,000 could be 200,000 but something. So I I haven't heard whether

[1:02:30] or not you have a list in your heads things like that on a daily basis.

[1:02:36] » Well maybe you need to share that. >> I can tell you this. we get our our

[1:02:40] health insurance premiums which gonna be for 27.

[1:02:44] » That's ae inevitably >> Veronica and her staff will call our

[1:02:49] broker >> give us give us a quote and because of

[1:02:54] our assessments we can't we can't go private. If we

[1:02:58] could go private and save money I think everybody up here would say yes. But we

[1:03:02] can't. We are stuck with the state and the state, just so that you know, the

[1:03:08] New Jersey health benefits program last year lost $250

[1:03:13] million. You want to call that I call it

[1:03:16] mismanagement. That's crazy. >> The job is not

[1:03:20] » Let me let me finish. So we somehow they got to make up that 250 million and they

[1:03:25] got to give us a good a good product. It's not happening.

[1:03:30] » I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying you can hear the fear in people that there's

[1:03:34] never an end to the increase in taxes. So, I'm just bringing it up. Never would

[1:03:40] want to take away any ideas to develop for taxes. I'm all for that. Never

[1:03:45] promised never to do anything. >> And you're exactly right because we're

[1:03:48] getting nickeled and dime everywhere. But to give you an idea, a real strong

[1:03:52] idea on one of the things we did this year, I'm going to turn it over to our

[1:03:56] administrator because we did something this year that because we're we're

[1:04:01] looking at efficiency where we can move people and where we can save money. We

[1:04:05] did something within the DPW this year that uh was huge, which the

[1:04:11] administrator, if you talk about the janitorial services.

[1:04:13] » Thank you for giving me the opportunity. So we um we we were having

[1:04:17] » I can step down and let you talk. Will you Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. You can stand.

[1:04:21] Um >> so we um were we were faced with a

[1:04:25] retirement in the janitorial staff of the DPW department. We have three people

[1:04:30] that oversee the um cleaning of our buildings, all of our public buildings,

[1:04:34] public bathrooms, parks, you know, the you know, those kind of things. Um with

[1:04:38] and now with the benefits, salaries, and employment costs, it was it's about

[1:04:43] $463,000 for three people. One of the people were

[1:04:47] retiring. So what we did is we went out for an RFP to look for an outside

[1:04:51] company. Could an outside company do it cheaper than us and cover all of our

[1:04:55] needs and maybe expand the needs of cleaning, right? Because if you call in

[1:04:58] somebody at night, it's overtime. You call in somebody on the weekend, it's

[1:05:00] overtime. Sundays are double time, right? And there are sometimes where

[1:05:03] there's emergencies, especially in the police department, that require

[1:05:05] additional cleaning. Police department's a 247 operation, so they need additional

[1:05:09] cleaning compared to um our municipal offices. Can we cut what how many days a

[1:05:13] week we're clearing the municipal offices? is really how dirty does our

[1:05:17] building get, right? So, we went out for an RFP and the RFP came in at $191,000.

[1:05:24] So, we jumped on it, right? So, we only entered into a one-year contract to make

[1:05:27] sure that it is something that's feasible and it's working. So far, so

[1:05:30] good. I do believe that the majority of the employees are very happy. Um we're

[1:05:35] getting um more coverage on different buildings that get heavier use such as

[1:05:39] the community center and of course the park bathrooms at this time of the year

[1:05:42] get a lot of use. So they're getting cleaned as well. Those two individuals

[1:05:46] left in the janitorial staff were put out into the labor force to help with

[1:05:50] the other items that um need to be done by public works instead of hiring

[1:05:54] additional people in the labor force. So again with my management efficiency

[1:05:57] study which I didn't get to finish speaking about, we are looking again it

[1:06:01] was a grant. You're limited to how much you could get. So, we wanted to start

[1:06:04] first with the municipal offices um and look at the municipal offices. Could we

[1:06:08] combine departments? Could maybe somebody only need to be a half a day in

[1:06:11] one office and work a half a day in another office where there was other

[1:06:14] duties that needed to be done. We are preparing we have to I just can't hire

[1:06:17] any company off the street to do it. Um so, we are preparing our request for

[1:06:21] proposals to take solicitation from interested companies to perform the

[1:06:24] efficiency study. um that will probably the you won't see a report probably for

[1:06:29] at least 12 months from that and uh you know to see what we're going to do um

[1:06:33] with regards to moving staff around sharing resources instead of continually

[1:06:37] hiring um part-time people uh full-time people I will tell you that I've you

[1:06:41] know with technology as fast as it rolls and changes and it's rapid um I can see

[1:06:47] where um you know c things could be reduced things could be done um in a

[1:06:52] part-time basis versus a full-time basis you know um office hours might be

[1:06:55] reduced if you can do a lot of e-commerce so to speak you know you know

[1:06:59] again tax collection you can't tell them that they can't bring in cash to pay

[1:07:02] their taxes because if they use a credit card there's that convenience fee that

[1:07:06] you the user has to pay so those are but over time I think a lot of that's going

[1:07:10] to change and we probably won't be taking cash we probably won't be taking

[1:07:14] checks it's all going to be in e-commerce so do you need you know

[1:07:17] individuals in the tax office tax assessment I believe eventually the

[1:07:20] county is going to take over the assessing of all the municipal assess uh

[1:07:24] tax assessor's offices. You know, we we see that because it's it's county

[1:07:28] controlled now to a certain point. You know, those kind of things. You know, we

[1:07:31] do out some of our pay payroll for the reporting to the outside agencies are

[1:07:36] done by an outside agency, you know. So, those things, there are ways to reduce

[1:07:41] um staffing and items like that. But as long as we keep our parks the way they

[1:07:46] are and all those things, you're going to see certain departments like public

[1:07:48] works and police of course because the more people you have in town or the more

[1:07:52] people that trans transiate through your town, you have more calls for services

[1:07:56] for the police. You know, they they are averaging about 20. One officer on a one

[1:08:01] day shift is averaging about 20 calls per officer. And some of those calls

[1:08:06] require more than one officer to be on depending on the type of call. And

[1:08:10] again, sometimes they're dealing with calls where my neighbor's dog is

[1:08:14] barking, you know, and sometimes they're very serious calls, but all of those

[1:08:17] calls for service have to be addressed. So, and then again, all the state laws

[1:08:21] that come down and all those things require sometimes additional staffing

[1:08:25] and additional reporting because it's not just as simple as, you know, writing

[1:08:28] a report, you know. So, but we are looking, the municipal offices were the

[1:08:32] easiest way to go first to look at it. We do plan if the state offers the grant

[1:08:36] next year, apply again. We are um and I'm going to make this announcement and

[1:08:40] whether the committee likes it or not. Um we are looking at consolidation of

[1:08:44] our emergency services. There's a lot of duplication of equipment and um vehicles

[1:08:48] whether it's the first aid squad or the fire company. So could we have one Lacy

[1:08:53] Township first aid squad and one Lacy Township Fire Company and we have

[1:08:57] separate to have resources that are not duplication of resources. So you don't

[1:09:01] need four chief's vehicles. Maybe you need one and one assistant chief vehicle

[1:09:05] and you have some substations. So those things that we are looking at.

[1:09:09] » This is good stuff that you need to share with us.

[1:09:13] » Well, sometimes it's not comfortable stuff because I'm sure after I just said

[1:09:17] this about the fire companies that they're going to be breathing down my

[1:09:20] neck a few of them and same with the first broad shoulders.

[1:09:24] » They all like home rule. You know, we all like home rule. It's the same with

[1:09:27] the municipalities in New Jersey. There's these some little verbs that

[1:09:30] maybe consolidation might be the way to go. That's the kind of stuff that helps

[1:09:34] to mitigate people screaming about that is when they hear you're trying.

[1:09:38] » We're trying. High >> applause. We're trying. Thank you.

[1:09:41] » Thank you. >> Yeah. And sometimes it just gets lost in

[1:09:44] the soup with doing all the other business. We just You're right. It needs

[1:09:48] to get out there, but sometimes it just gets lost with all the other business.

[1:09:51] Next

[1:10:02] I like this here.

[1:10:07] » He's He's gonna run out. >> You're in trouble now.

[1:10:11] » Uh Alisa Waller, Crestwood Drive. Um I guess I just have a few points. So one

[1:10:18] of the things I found out January, uh the legislature of New Jersey gave

[1:10:23] themselves a 67% raise, right? So at the beginning of this meeting we're talking

[1:10:29] about increasing facility rentals for people in our town and then decreasing

[1:10:34] thing benefits for veterans. Now I know what you had said but what I'm talking

[1:10:38] about on one hand we can increase something on the other hand we can

[1:10:41] decrease it and it just doesn't jive >> nobody's decreasing benefits.

[1:10:46] » Also I'd like to >> what for

[1:10:50] decreasing >> we're not decreasing anything. We're

[1:10:52] looking for the state of New Jersey to reimburse us for that reimburse tax.

[1:10:56] » Right. But that's what I'm Well, it's the point is that you want that money

[1:10:59] back because we lost it. So, you're also it's it's just a mixed messages about

[1:11:05] taxes and the YMCA comes into it because our taxes are going to pay for that and

[1:11:11] the uh pool at the Ocean County College was shut down because of the expense of

[1:11:18] maintaining it. So, um, I just wanted to make that connection that, you know,

[1:11:23] Back to the Future is a great movie to watch. Anything we decide now is going

[1:11:26] to affect the future. Like you're saying, in 10 years, you may or may not

[1:11:29] be here, but whoever's here is going to have to endure whatever we decide now.

[1:11:34] So the data center that was brought up is also something that I feel like if

[1:11:39] you're not on social media uh and then the data center discussion they don't

[1:11:42] jive either because without social media you know the data center is supposedly

[1:11:48] you know powering social media. Social media just mentioned that Manchester is

[1:11:53] proposing a data center right on their property west of the pro parkway which

[1:11:57] is also protected land. So, the fact that you can say, you know, that it

[1:12:01] wouldn't have that you don't want it here,

[1:12:04] » they they're not supposed to have it there and now they're have they're

[1:12:07] trying to repeal it and it was rewritten, the ordinance was rewritten

[1:12:10] or the zoning was rewritten in a way that included it and now they're in a

[1:12:15] battle. >> Mayor, if I could through the floor,

[1:12:17] please, and I apologize, ma'am, for just give you 30 seconds.

[1:12:21] Social media has caused more stress in this town and more information that is

[1:12:26] really may may not be accurate during the fire last year, during COVID, during

[1:12:32] Sandy. If I I say to our and we have some great social media um out there and

[1:12:38] we put some of our social media out there, but if you have questions rather

[1:12:42] and I heard awful things about the nuclear plant during the fire, not

[1:12:47] seeing on any so social media avenue out and there are some great ones. If you

[1:12:53] have questions about the town, about your taxes, and you want accurate

[1:12:58] answers, please call 6931100. I'm going to cut you off there because

[1:13:02] it's my time and I have this has nothing to do with the information I'm getting

[1:13:06] from social media. I'm trying to tell you that social media is where people

[1:13:09] get information. So, the idea that Manchester had this issue, I found about

[1:13:13] about it through scrolling through a a a channel that I follow that it shares

[1:13:17] local news, you know, that's not unheard of to follow something on social media

[1:13:22] that's local news. And then that's when I went and attended the meeting and

[1:13:26] that, you know, cemented the fact that it was true. So, social media also does

[1:13:31] tell truth, but sometimes you do have to investigate. I agree. But, um, that's

[1:13:36] all I wanted to say. Just pointing out that the YMCA is a big no for me still,

[1:13:40] just because I don't know about you guys, but anyone up there who makes more

[1:13:43] than uh $89,000 a year, good for you. But there's people who make less than

[1:13:48] that. And I'm a teacher who does make about that. So the fact that we have to

[1:13:53] pay for this YMCA when the Toms I mean the Lacy Township School District has

[1:13:59] the most employees that we pay in this town that's the highest amount of I

[1:14:03] think there's 750 teachers in that district. So our river

[1:14:07] » no in Lacy. So that's the highest employment of our dis our town, right?

[1:14:12] Is there is there a business in this town that we pay for that's more than

[1:14:15] that? >> I'm just trying to make a point that

[1:14:18] that's something that we should invest more in. Not saying about anything to do

[1:14:22] with the argument with insurance and all that, but I'm talking about our

[1:14:25] structure and the pool that and the YMCA that I don't think we need in this town

[1:14:30] even just for our schools. So that's it. Thank you.

[1:14:33] » Thank you.

[1:14:39] » Next, uh Steve, I'll get to you after everybody's m

[1:14:44] » I'll take the young lady there. >> Huh?

[1:14:47] » You >> young lady. That's what he said.

[1:14:49] » Oh, okay. Well, I'll take it. Take it. Take it while I can.

[1:14:52] » I'll take it while I can. Hi, my name is Elaine Brandon. I'm from uh Fork at

[1:14:56] River. Um I have a question. With all due respect, everybody was talking

[1:15:01] about, you know, high taxes and high this and increases in which I totally

[1:15:08] understand all that. Why is it that the YMCA is not going to pay any rent at

[1:15:13] all?

[1:15:16] » Okay, that that's not necessarily true. We are in the process of negotiating

[1:15:20] with them what would be an agreement, right? We're not we can't sign an

[1:15:24] agreement until we obviously know what happens with the question, right? Yes or

[1:15:28] no. So, we are negotiating while we've talked about some of the uh uh

[1:15:34] membership discounts, uh business discounts, um rental space, naming

[1:15:39] rights, right? So, there have been some back and forth dialogue during our

[1:15:42] deliberations and negotiations to increase the resident discount, to

[1:15:47] increase the business discount, um to uh get revenue because there's a space for

[1:15:52] like a physical therapy place proposed in the plans that you saw around um the

[1:15:56] room or the town or on the website that we would get a portion of the rent of

[1:16:00] that to offset some of our debt. There's possibility that all naming rights and

[1:16:04] those kind of things, all of that revenue would come to the town. There's

[1:16:07] also financial assistance that they offer to um anybody that's on the uh

[1:16:13] 100% uh reduced uh lunch program for the schools with kids. There's programs for

[1:16:18] them to get an additional reductions in membership fees if they wanted to um uh

[1:16:23] have membership there, plus other programs for seniors and other items for

[1:16:27] veterans where there are reductions in fees and stuff for um people who want to

[1:16:33] join. So, we are still negotiating what that final contract looks like, but it's

[1:16:38] it's we're not signing it or doing it until obviously we know how the question

[1:16:43] goes. >> Yeah, but can't sign a contract.

[1:16:45] » Yeah, but you're asking you're asking us a question to answer without all the

[1:16:52] proper facts. We We can't do that. We This is our money and it's your money.

[1:16:57] » And in all honesty, you're exactly right. And it it's it's

[1:17:01] » the meeting two weeks ago which had Yes. had a tremendous amount of input and the

[1:17:07] whole bit uh a lot of good questions came out.

[1:17:10] » Yeah. And and you still but you but with all due respect you still approved it.

[1:17:14] » Well let me let me finish. >> Go ahead. Go ahead.

[1:17:16] » Okay. We're a big proponent of to ask the

[1:17:22] taxpayers so we wanted to put it out as a question. The bind we got in, let me

[1:17:27] finish, is we didn't want to put the qu we didn't want to do it last week.

[1:17:33] The problem we ran into is >> wise

[1:17:36] » to get it on November's ballot. We had until August 7th. We thought we

[1:17:42] had until the end of August to get this question prepared and have some

[1:17:45] meetings, but the county came in and said we had to have it to them by August

[1:17:49] 7th. So, we had that meeting. Now, with that said, we're currently in

[1:17:56] negotiations with them. We're getting more and more answers. All the factual

[1:18:01] factual answers are on the website right now. The ones that we're still

[1:18:06] negotiating are not. As those facts come out, they

[1:18:11] will be posted. >> Okay? But because if we

[1:18:17] throw a number out there of anything, >> it will change

[1:18:20] » an improper number out there. $45,000 is not the proper number.

[1:18:23] » Well, 45,000 isn't isn't on that to start with. That's 45 million. But who

[1:18:29] knows that >> 45 million. Okay. I'm I'm not debating

[1:18:32] whether whether you like the question or no question. What I'm saying is we were

[1:18:36] under under a >> It's not about liking it or disliking.

[1:18:39] It's about giving the the the correct information to the public who's voting.

[1:18:44] » We will you let me finish. I just said that as we get all our information, it's

[1:18:50] being posted. And I had some people lately tell me they don't have time to

[1:18:56] look online. Well, if you can sit for hours on Lacy Chatter

[1:19:01] and on your computer, >> I don't go on Lacy Chat. I'm banned from

[1:19:03] Lacy Chatter. >> Yeah, probably everybody else is too. Uh

[1:19:07] if you can spend a lot of computer time on the screen, you can take a few

[1:19:12] minutes and go to the township website and the stuff's posted. There are stuff

[1:19:17] there. The number the things people are looking for right now. We're in process

[1:19:21] of trying to settle and get them numbers. And with that said,

[1:19:26] because I know myself, I repeated it constantly tonight. If you don't have

[1:19:30] the answers you need

[1:19:34] » by November's vote, vote accordingly. If you're not happy with it, vote no.

[1:19:39] » All right. My other question is very quickly or not quickly, but

[1:19:42] » I mean, because there's a lot of questions. I don't know the answer.

[1:19:44] » So, you're saying the deadline was August

[1:19:46] » 7th. >> Seventh, what happens if you do not meet

[1:19:48] that deadline? >> You couldn't put the question on the

[1:19:50] ballot for this year. >> For this year. So, why couldn't you have

[1:19:54] wait till next year? What is the big rush? What is the big hurry when you

[1:19:57] have all this stuff going on? And and now it's like a crunch time. Why?

[1:20:03] This is That's crazy. It doesn't make any sense.

[1:20:07] » Why? Because because last week I mean last I say last week, last month with

[1:20:11] all due respect, you said you don't want to deal with it next year and you did

[1:20:14] say that. I mean that's not our problem. >> No. You know what? This has been going

[1:20:18] on for saying >> this has been going on for a couple

[1:20:20] years. >> We got to either move ahead or settle

[1:20:23] it. >> And you know what? There's there's

[1:20:25] there's one there's one thing I hate about government. It gets stuck in

[1:20:30] quicksand and it >> drags things out and drags things out.

[1:20:34] This has been going this has been going on for a couple years. And yes, I would

[1:20:38] like to see the public make a decision in November. And if it's no, it's no. If

[1:20:44] it's yes, it's yes. Because the other thing with a yes vote, remember even if

[1:20:48] the public votes yes in November, if that does not mean it's happening

[1:20:56] because there still is things if we're not happy with the deal and we see the

[1:21:01] town's not happy with the deal. It doesn't mean just because it's voted

[1:21:05] yes, that just >> does not mean we have to do it.

[1:21:08] » Okay, I'm going to reverse that for you. And if it's voted no with a close

[1:21:13] margin, it was said up here and I know who said it that they could overturn

[1:21:18] that. Can you guys vote against the what the public votes?

[1:21:22] » Yes, we can. It's a nonbinding >> referendum. Can you explain

[1:21:29] everyone up here, madam? >> Respectfully,

[1:21:33] my recollection is the way it comes out in that vote is the way we're voting.

[1:21:38] I'm not voting against the will of the people.

[1:21:40] » I know what you I know who said what. I was here.

[1:21:42] » In the booth, I will take a picture of my

[1:21:45] » No, I'm not talking about the ballot. I'm talking about do you vote

[1:21:50] as Tim? I think you know where I'm going with that. You You vote. We We our our

[1:21:55] vote was No, not an overwhelming vote in November. It was a close mor.

[1:21:59] » We said we said we were going to follow the people's choice.

[1:22:02] » Well, not you. >> Oh, absolutely.

[1:22:04] » Yeah. No, no, no. I don't mean you. I don't mean I don't mean you. I meant

[1:22:07] there was somebody that up there that actually said if it was a close margin

[1:22:11] I'm still voting yes. So my question I don't want you guys to give me

[1:22:14] » that's not what he said. >> Oh yes he did.

[1:22:16] » He said if it's a close margin we could override

[1:22:21] » and he said he would under the statute there are certain things that are

[1:22:24] binding and there are certain things that are nonbinding. Okay. This is a

[1:22:28] non-binding question. Whereas the school every bit of capital that they want to

[1:22:32] spend on that they have to go and ask the public and abide by the public's

[1:22:35] decision. But in that's the school that is for the schools only. Municipalities

[1:22:41] are different and attorney Connors and I almost called the mayor Connors. Oh my

[1:22:45] gosh, was I taking myself back? Don't do that.

[1:22:47] » Bad bad enough being the attorney can explain it or if you'd like to hear from

[1:22:52] it. But New Jersey law for municipalities is different than it is

[1:22:55] for school law when it comes to bond ordinances.

[1:22:58] » Okay. All right. I just wanted to clarify some of you remember

[1:23:03] » Kevin Flynn pointed to each one of us and asked us and

[1:23:08] » future mayor Flynn. >> Yeah. Future Mayor Flynn.

[1:23:11] » Damn right. >> Oh. Oh. I'm like Chris that guy.

[1:23:16] » And you're at the meeting. The even if one person said something that you're

[1:23:21] debating. >> Well, correct. It takes a majority of

[1:23:27] this committee to override this. And I'm sure if you took count, there was a lot

[1:23:33] of us up here that said we will not go against the will.

[1:23:39] » I just remember the one person who started it and I know who it was. I And

[1:23:42] I think >> we all we all do. But it doesn't

[1:23:45] » but everybody but I'm just it was just like what what good is it if that's

[1:23:49] » it doesn't matter in the fact that the majority of this sitting committee

[1:23:53] » okay >> who will still be sitting in these seats

[1:23:55] in November >> well

[1:23:57] » possibly >> in November

[1:23:59] » oh that's right said that they will abide by the will of the people.

[1:24:04] » Okay. Well that's good to know. And the other thing is you know

[1:24:08] » I might also add you really shouldn't have rushed it.

[1:24:11] » That's not fair. I'm just saying if it went to next year then so be it because

[1:24:15] I don't know what the big rush is. I really don't I mean we we're fine.

[1:24:20] » Yeah. We're doing >> myself like I just want to know does the

[1:24:23] people want it or don't want it. It's it's it's a simple question.

[1:24:25] » I know. Yeah. But the I but the rushing part of the whole thing just

[1:24:29] » and I'm fine if they don't want it they don't want it. I'm fine with that.

[1:24:32] » Not all the answers aren't there but that's all right. Thank you.

[1:24:36] » I would also add that thank you. Under New Jersey statute, the

[1:24:42] New Jersey bond law, which I believe is NJSA 48217,

[1:24:46] requires an affirmative vote of 2/3 of the full membership of the governing

[1:24:51] body. So, it requires four affirmative votes. So, it couldn't be passed by

[1:24:56] three. It would have to be passed by four.

[1:25:00] » Okay. Who's next? >> Rich.

[1:25:03] » Richard, >> can we not talk? Can we just let them

[1:25:08] talk?

[1:25:15] Richard likes it on there. That's it. He wants it over there.

[1:25:20] » Uh, good evening, uh, Lacy citizens and, uh, the mayor and township committee

[1:25:26] members. First, I want to start off with something nice.

[1:25:30] » Okay. Um, on my walks every day, I pass Will

[1:25:37] Wallace Park. >> Okay. And um I see all the kids out

[1:25:41] there, especially during the summer during with the recreation program

[1:25:46] and it's so nice. It brings smiles to my face cuz they're laughing, having fun,

[1:25:50] doing things kids don't normally have the opportunity to do very much today.

[1:25:56] And it reminded me of many moons ago when I was young and I participated in

[1:26:01] the summer parks program in my own town and the many happy memories I had as a

[1:26:06] child. And it's just nice to know that we do that for our kids

[1:26:10] » and I appreciate that because every day I walk by there and the kids are

[1:26:14] laughing and having fun and it's a great thing. So, um, thank you again. So, on a

[1:26:19] more serious note, um, and I want the township committee to know this because

[1:26:24] I've been the subject of five police complaints filed against me by the Lacy

[1:26:30] School Board President Kim Clauss. All of these complaints have been unfounded

[1:26:35] and all based on Miss Claus's extreme paranoia.

[1:26:39] What is even more disturbing is the time and energy that she has wasted taking up

[1:26:44] our police department's precious time and resources with her nonsense. This

[1:26:49] last complaint of hers didn't even have anything really to do with her. And I

[1:26:54] personally think she should be spending her time running to a therapist instead

[1:26:58] of wasting our police department's time on her ridiculous complaints. I bring

[1:27:02] this up because the police department is under the guise of our township

[1:27:06] government. Miss Clauss obviously feels very paranoid about the horrible

[1:27:11] decisions she has made which have made a very negative economic impact on all of

[1:27:16] us in this town. She doesn't like to be held accountable. But people like her in

[1:27:21] elected office should think before they act, especially with issues that can

[1:27:26] force many individuals out of their homes because they can't afford the tax

[1:27:31] increases. It saddens me though that this is going on and even worse that

[1:27:36] those of you sitting up here have allowed this to happen without publicly

[1:27:41] speaking out against this outrageous school tax increases over the past

[1:27:45] several years. It makes all of us think that you just don't care. And maybe it's

[1:27:50] true you don't care because if you did, you would have spoken out against them.

[1:27:56] What kind of a town are we, I ask, if our government bodies just make such

[1:28:00] dire financial decisions without considering the economic impact on our

[1:28:05] town's residents? We also have endured very hefty tax increases from the

[1:28:10] township over the past two years. Now, this idea of trying to raise our taxes

[1:28:15] even more with a $96 million YMCA is just totally ludicrous.

[1:28:22] A caring, good town with an emphatic government does not make dire financial

[1:28:28] decisions on its residents and claim that it's a nice town. A nice town looks

[1:28:33] after its residents, not make their life more financially difficult. Take heed.

[1:28:40] Which leads me to this. Deerhead Lake is a recreational facility that has gone to

[1:28:46] hell over the last several years because our town government does not want to

[1:28:51] spend the money to maintain and fix it. It sounds outrageous to me that you want

[1:28:56] us to take on another large financial burden on a brand new facility when you

[1:29:01] don't even take care of the facilities you are ready already responsible for.

[1:29:06] This is the epitome of financial incompetence. Dearhead Lake will not

[1:29:11] cost $96 million to restore to its former glory. It would be a much better

[1:29:17] beach for the Wibbit, especially concerning the parking situation over at

[1:29:20] Lake Barnagget, which to me is somewhat dangerous and inadequate. Restoring the

[1:29:26] platform that used to be out in the middle of the lake along with the wibbit

[1:29:30] would make Deerhead Lake into a multi-recreational

[1:29:33] facility. I would love to see outdoor volleyball on the beach along with many

[1:29:38] other activities. Let's take care of the facilities we already own and are

[1:29:43] responsible for before even thinking of a pie in the sky YMCA, which by the way

[1:29:49] should not be built with our tax monies because it is a nonprofit organization

[1:29:54] and not a government entity. Yes, a YMCA could bring some good things to our

[1:30:00] town, but not at the taxpayers's expense. And it's important and I I find

[1:30:07] a lot of times with government bodies, you make decisions, you don't seem to

[1:30:10] care about the effects that it has on the people in our town. And as I've

[1:30:15] spoken at this body before, my neighbors, both of them had to sell

[1:30:19] their houses last year and get out of here because they couldn't afford the

[1:30:22] high tax increases. And you know, you have to look at

[1:30:26] yourself in the mirror and say, "Do I really care about the people that live

[1:30:30] here?" I know I do because I speak about this all the time. It's on record. And

[1:30:35] yes, I can afford the taxes. My life has had dramatic changes in the last past

[1:30:39] two years. And God has looked wonderfully upon me and has, you know,

[1:30:44] given me the ability that I can do whatever I want in my life. But the fact

[1:30:47] of the matter is most of the people are not in the position in this town that I

[1:30:51] am in. But I will fight for those people because I care for them. And I'm not an

[1:30:56] elected official and I will never run for public office because the role that

[1:31:00] I play between what I consider myself as a conduit between the government bodies

[1:31:05] in this town and the people is a very important role. And if I were to leave,

[1:31:10] there isn't anybody in this town who's capable of standing up to the bodies and

[1:31:13] calling them out the way that I can. And it's not personal. But I got to tell

[1:31:17] you, these police complaints are very personal. And I've had to file two sets

[1:31:23] of ethics violations against the board president, which is going to cost the

[1:31:26] taxpayers $10,000 each because of the insurance plan that the school has. The

[1:31:33] first 10,000 must be paid by the school district. Now, she also has other ethics

[1:31:37] violations by other people. The fact of the matter is is that this

[1:31:42] cannot continue. The police department cannot be used as a political porn.

[1:31:47] » Rich, are you close close to done? Yes. >> I I know you went over, but if you're

[1:31:52] close to done, I want you to finish. >> Okay. I'm just saying you can't use the

[1:31:56] police department. Are you guys going to come after me because I'm saying things

[1:31:59] you don't like. Is this what's going to is this what

[1:32:02] it's going to turn out to be? >> Well, let me just if I might, Rich, any

[1:32:07] complaint, any complaint, how >> I know

[1:32:10] » frivolous it is or whatever, the chief will tell you they must act on it. They

[1:32:15] must investigate it and determine. And that's that's the role. Now, you think

[1:32:20] it's frivolous. Obviously, she doesn't. >> Oh, well,

[1:32:23] » you do you do understand, Mr. McDonald, that there is unfound it's a criminal

[1:32:28] thing to fi file unfounded complaints.

[1:32:31] » That would be up to the chief and his investigators to determine. And if and

[1:32:35] if it is that way, he'll refer that to the prosecutor for charges. It's that

[1:32:40] simple, Rich. >> Well, that may happen.

[1:32:42] » It may happen. >> Yes. But to sit there and say that that

[1:32:45] she's crazy or whatever you said she's nothing

[1:32:48] » paranoid. >> Paran okay paranoid and that then say

[1:32:52] that it's the chief. No, the police wait, let me finish. They have a job to

[1:32:57] do. >> How f however frivolous it is. I mean,

[1:33:01] I'm sure if you talk to the chief, he could tell you some great stories about

[1:33:05] some complaints that are bad. I'm sure, >> you know,

[1:33:07] » but the fact is I'm being targeted because I am speaking out against

[1:33:13] » decisions that have been made by a political body. I'm asking you because

[1:33:16] I'm calling you guys out for things that you're doing. You're going to be filing

[1:33:19] criminal charges against me or, you know, going to be filing complaints

[1:33:22] against me because I speak out. Are we going to have we become that kind of a

[1:33:26] town >> that we can't file I have never filed a

[1:33:30] complaint against anybody? >> Well, and Rich, I think you already know

[1:33:34] that answer. >> Yes. You're you're you're in front of us

[1:33:37] enough that that we appreciate what you say. We respect what you say. And that's

[1:33:43] the nice thing about this country is we can agree to disagree, move on. You

[1:33:50] know, it's it's you have your opinions, others have theirs, and we respect that.

[1:33:56] And that's why you won't see that here. >> Well, I kind of figured that because

[1:34:01] I've been doing this for 15 years, >> right? So yeah, but the fact of the

[1:34:05] matter is is that this is going on and I being targeted the way I am and I just

[1:34:10] don't like it. I mean it's >> for myself. Thank you for letting us

[1:34:14] know and I got to let somebody else speak.

[1:34:18] » Okay, very good. Thank you. >> Is there anybody else before I know

[1:34:24] Steve wanted to come back up. No, Steve.

[1:34:34] Clean up.

[1:34:40] Steve Borrow Fork of River. A couple of questions. We're going to go back to the

[1:34:45] YMCA and I plan on attending every meeting until we get the proper answers.

[1:34:52] » Okay. >> Let me ask you first about non-binding

[1:34:56] versus binding. How about >> I'll let Chris answer that one.

[1:35:00] That's >> why couldn't that vote be binding?

[1:35:04] » Because >> and who makes the decision on whether

[1:35:07] it's binding or non-binding? >> The statute itself, Steve, the statute

[1:35:11] requires that the question be non-binding.

[1:35:15] » So, municipality. Yeah, it's I think it's NJSA

[1:35:19] 1937-1. >> Next meeting. Can you give that number

[1:35:24] to me so I could read because I really want to read read the law because a lot

[1:35:28] of people don't understand >> that if we vote it down you all can

[1:35:33] change it. >> Correct.

[1:35:34] » So what was the purpose of putting it out?

[1:35:37] » It's merely to give municipalities. It's merely to give It's merely to give

[1:35:43] municipalities an opportunity to acquire the sentiment of the town on a

[1:35:49] particular matter. and not all municipalities use them.

[1:35:53] » I mean, logically speaking, and you hear it enough when you come up here, you all

[1:35:58] know you're $32 million in debt. You word the the question

[1:36:05] without revealing the actual cost of that building. there should that that

[1:36:12] question needs to be reworked and all the truth be put in it because

[1:36:18] as it's worded now it only gives the one number 45 million and there's a lot more

[1:36:24] involved >> well I I will say I will say this and I

[1:36:28] don't totally disagree with you but where the questions are required by law

[1:36:36] such as bond issues general obligation bond issues issued by the state of New

[1:36:41] Jersey. You'll often see on your ballot, you get your sample ballot, there'll be

[1:36:45] a bond question on there. It'll it'll say the total amount of the bonds. Shall

[1:36:51] the state of New Jersey issue x amount of bonds? It doesn't give any other cost

[1:36:56] factors because you don't know what the exact cost figures are going to be. It's

[1:37:00] quite possible that those bonds may be paid off sooner than their maturity

[1:37:06] date. That happens or refinanced. That happens. So, you can't put you can only

[1:37:13] if it were to go out 30 years, and I think that's what you're trying to

[1:37:17] indicate is that the bond is paid over the 30-year period that yes, it's going

[1:37:22] to cost more than the $45 million. There'll be the interest charges

[1:37:27] themselves. But I think that most individuals would be able to make that

[1:37:33] assessment on their own. But I'm but what I'm but what I'm pointing out is

[1:37:37] the boilerplate typical bond issue when they are required

[1:37:42] » with other entities public entities they don't list the total they don't list the

[1:37:46] total cost because >> meaning you can give me the exact

[1:37:49] » I would be happy to >> I will research it so I can understand

[1:37:52] it because people are asking me why it's non-binding and what's the purpose if

[1:37:57] it's nonbinding if you all can change it.

[1:38:00] » Correct. only only to getting a flavor of how the people think and feel

[1:38:06] » and it's it's only only to gauge it's only to gauge the sentiment of the

[1:38:12] people that live within the township. That's why the statute was written the

[1:38:16] way it's written. And furthermore, the statute also imposes a limitation that

[1:38:20] they can only be on questions that involve um items in which the

[1:38:25] municipality has a control over. So, we couldn't put a question on a ballot

[1:38:29] non-binding expressing the sentiment on some other

[1:38:33] issue, a state issue or county issue or anything else like that. Even though we

[1:38:39] might like to get the sentiment of the people, we can't. So, that's but that's

[1:38:44] all it is. It's not it's only instructive to the governing body as to

[1:38:48] how the people feel on a particular issue. And and Steve, let

[1:38:51] » me clarify that somewhat. What I >> But I'll give you I'll give you the I'll

[1:38:56] give you the the information, Steve. >> All right, switching gears.

[1:38:59] » And Steve, just for one real second, >> just one quick thing, and I I understand

[1:39:04] the skepticism between a bonding and non-bonding thing.

[1:39:07] » People are saying, "Well, what the hell is a good understandable?" Because I

[1:39:11] talked to a lot of people, and I'm trying to explain it, and I said, "I

[1:39:15] really don't know." But on the minutes on tape, like Chris said before, you

[1:39:21] need two it would be take two/3 majority of this governing body to override it.

[1:39:27] Number one. So that's four of us set out of five. Okay. Everybody's been pulled

[1:39:32] on camera here. There is not the support no matter what

[1:39:39] to override that vote. >> And you know me long enough. I know your

[1:39:45] word is good. Yes, your word is good. and and and a lot of and a lot of other

[1:39:50] committee people had had said they would >> what about me

[1:39:54] » and >> and

[1:39:56] » but >> how could I leave you with

[1:39:58] » you know and and I only say this because it it keeps coming up and I I think

[1:40:02] people do need to know that the information you're talking about but

[1:40:06] this committee as a whole for the most part has said they are not going against

[1:40:11] oh don't >> the feelings of the people binding or

[1:40:14] not let's get his other question >> real quick Yes.

[1:40:19] » Tell us about the initial meeting with the YMCA.

[1:40:24] Who put the proposal on the table regarding free land and free building?

[1:40:32] Because you're saying you're still negotiating this. The the bottom line of

[1:40:36] negotiations is to find out the purpose and find out the bottom line.

[1:40:45] You don't do that afterwards. You do all the fringe stuff. Tell me. I need to

[1:40:51] know what happened. Who initiated the free building? Was it you guys? Was

[1:40:58] it the YMCA convincing you? We need to know. People ask me, "How in the world

[1:41:06] would any government body use the township tax money to provide an alleged

[1:41:14] nonprofit?" And after I seen the salaries of what them people make and

[1:41:19] the and the golden benefits they have, it it really first of all, like I said,

[1:41:26] all nonprofit unions have organic law on how

[1:41:32] they run because they control their own money.

[1:41:36] And it's a falsehood when they put specifically in writing that the money

[1:41:41] goes back into the building. That is BS. Some of it goes back. But who's paying

[1:41:48] the salaries of the YMCA executives? How do they get paid? How does the national

[1:41:54] YMCA CEO who makes $830,000 a year? What does she do? Just like with

[1:42:04] the YMCA here, we're going to have a committee of volunteers to see how it

[1:42:07] runs. Yet, we're going to pay a CEO $420,000.

[1:42:12] Administrators, overseers, there's a whole line of them. And they all make

[1:42:17] six figures from like 115,000 up to 420.

[1:42:24] Tell me how the initial meeting happened, who said

[1:42:30] what, and why did they say it? Did you guys go in with a plan or you just went

[1:42:36] in with a blindfold on? What happened? How did we get to this point? I have

[1:42:44] researched a month now to find any nonprofit that had the land given and

[1:42:50] the building given to them and there isn't one that I found. So, I'm going to

[1:42:55] t I I want to put you guys to test because next meeting I'm going to ask

[1:43:00] you what other nonprofit operates solely on tax money and all their

[1:43:06] administrators make all this money. It It just It doesn't make sense to me.

[1:43:13] Like I said, if I ran my family like you guys are running this YMCA thing, I'd be

[1:43:18] living in a straw hut out in the Pine Baron somewhere.

[1:43:24] So someone tell us what happened at the initial meeting, how who set the

[1:43:30] parameters because the first thing is I would say who owns the land, who's

[1:43:35] paying for the building, who's going to maintain it, blah blah blah. That's the

[1:43:40] everything else is window drafts. >> Yes.

[1:43:42] » Thank you, Steve. >> Thank you.

[1:43:44] » You don't have any other >> Steve. I thought you had another

[1:43:47] question. Did you have another question you want to ask?

[1:43:49] » No, I asked enough for >> All right.

[1:43:52] » Don't worry. I'll be at next meeting. >> All right. Is there anybody else?

[1:43:56] » Seeing none, I'll make a motion to close the floor.

[1:43:58] » Second. >> Second.

[1:44:00] » All in favor? >> All in favor?

[1:44:02] » Resolution. >> So, no one's going to tell us.

[1:44:04] » Oh, you want it? >> Oh, we

[1:44:06] » I want someone to tell us and no one's going to answer.

[1:44:09] » Well, someone mayor is not her talk. >> I've been sitting through all the

[1:44:14] meetings with him. So, in August of 2020, I need to go back that far. As you

[1:44:19] know, we were embarking on possibly building a new facility for um the

[1:44:24] municipal building and police department and an indoor recreation facility on our

[1:44:27] own. And um what happened is um during COVID there was a lot of um different

[1:44:33] meetings we all sat in on and Johnson Controls um offers a lot of um

[1:44:38] incentives were like HBAC, clean air, you know, a lot of that stuff came out

[1:44:42] during CO and they had um I was talking to one of the representatives about you

[1:44:48] know we have we have very faulty air conditioning here and stuff like that

[1:44:50] and we talked about the age of the building the whole 10 yards and then he

[1:44:53] said hey listen we um are a reinvestor in properties to build a municipal but

[1:44:58] to build new facilities. Would you be interested in talking to us about a

[1:45:02] financing program the P3 public private partnership where we would be your

[1:45:07] financer and we would um o you know oversee the building and do all of that

[1:45:11] and help you build a new building. So that's where that started. Fast forward

[1:45:15] to when all of that fell apart as you know during that time frame John Kelly

[1:45:20] who is the CFO of the YMCA and he has since passed away reached out to me

[1:45:24] probably what is this 2026 probably four years ago to say hey listen we've been

[1:45:29] I've been following the new you know all the items in the news and on social

[1:45:32] media related to your uh public private partnership would you be interested in

[1:45:37] sitting down and talking with the YMCA about building a facility in your town

[1:45:41] because we're looking to expand into this the mid into southern part of Ocean

[1:45:45] County. So I spoke with uh I believe Steve was the c Steve was mayor that

[1:45:49] year as well and I approached Steve and he says yes let's engage and take the

[1:45:53] conversation to see what they have to offer. So at the time it did not come

[1:45:57] out in meeting one that we want to maintain control over the land. Okay

[1:46:02] that that is one of the things we didn't say that in meeting one. So we sat down

[1:46:05] we talked about you know what are they looking for? What are they looking to

[1:46:08] do? H how you know none of those intimate details about ownership and

[1:46:13] financing or rent or no rent came out in the initial details and we had a second

[1:46:18] meeting and then we started to engage committee members to say is this

[1:46:21] something we want to pursue is this further because you know time is money

[1:46:25] so you know you have me sitting in our meetings Steve sitting in our meetings

[1:46:28] other you know our recreation director our CFO sitting in our meetings so time

[1:46:32] is money so right so do we even want to embark on that so as time went on and it

[1:46:36] was quite some time before it came out that they are not favorable in paying

[1:46:43] rent. Okay, so let let's put it that way. And we were all shocked. We were

[1:46:47] all shocked. We're like, "Oh, okay." Um that that's not a model that we

[1:46:51] anticipated, you know. So we are still negotiating to get some kind of rent.

[1:46:56] It's not >> you just paid why don't they pay the

[1:46:58] mortgage? >> Why don't they It's 3.2 million.

[1:47:02] » We're not saying that. We're not saying that they rent, mortgage, however you

[1:47:05] want it. However you want to equate it. Okay, rent would go towards the the bond

[1:47:10] payment. Okay, so um they would they would run the facilities. Um they would

[1:47:15] run the programs, they would hire the staffing, they would pay for all of that

[1:47:19] based on how they receive their money, membership fees, uh donations, grants,

[1:47:25] stuff like that, right? And that we would jointly apply for grants to try to

[1:47:29] see if we could get money to build the facility. There are a lot of grants out

[1:47:33] there. there maybe are benefactors that might want to cough up some money to do

[1:47:37] that. So this is like I said this is still a work in progress as to whether

[1:47:41] or not they're we're paying 45 million for a building or maybe we're only

[1:47:46] paying 30 million for a building. Okay, if we get grants and benefactors and so

[1:47:49] on and so forth and whatever other um additional money that they can get. But

[1:47:53] yes, it did come out gosh months I have to say of what their proforma would look

[1:47:59] like as to an agreement they would like to see with the township of Lake Real

[1:48:03] quick, I have seen where there are grants and opportunities. Is the

[1:48:07] township engaged in getting grants and some kind of money help on the cost of

[1:48:15] the building? >> We plan to but to to expand being done

[1:48:19] now. >> No, to expand the expense because

[1:48:21] sometimes inhouse we're not necessarily capable of filling out the grants and

[1:48:26] doing that. you have to hire maybe some grant writers to help you because it's

[1:48:29] all about creative writing and all of that and it it's very proprietary

[1:48:33] certain grants. So why again you're yelling at us for spending the money on

[1:48:38] the professionals to do some of the leg work that they did. Now you want me to

[1:48:41] spend more money to write a grant that I might not even be building a building

[1:48:44] yet until we know what the question is. But we do I mean a few years ago I was

[1:48:48] very successful with getting a congressional district spending grant.

[1:48:51] That's where and the YMCA got quite a bit of money out of congressional

[1:48:55] district spending for upgrades to their facilities throughout Ocean and Mammoth

[1:48:58] County. We got 6 million to finish the railroad rightway road which again will

[1:49:04] complete that on the south side and the north side. We are working with the

[1:49:07] federal government to get the funds released. So there is funding out there

[1:49:10] that we can definitely apply for and a joint application may be looked upon

[1:49:14] more favorably than a single application if the Y and US partner. Sometimes it's

[1:49:18] looked upon more favorably but we plan to do that. There might be recreation

[1:49:21] grants out there. There may be, like I said, benefactors out there. There may

[1:49:26] be um other types of mental health grants and everything. And you can

[1:49:29] combine all them and work them together to help you offset the costs.

[1:49:33] » Okay. So, the answer is the YMCA initiated. Yes.

[1:49:38] » And it wasn't favorable to them to pay any rent.

[1:49:41] » Well, that's their model. That's their model. They said that's what they say.

[1:49:45] And did they give you any examples of other buildings that they had built for

[1:49:50] them that they now occupy? >> Most of the time they have occupy not

[1:49:54] new buildings. I would have to say um repurposed buildings um in most of them.

[1:49:58] Um but I believe uh I think Bridgewater is Bridgewater Townships building

[1:50:05] » uh there's a >> bridge

[1:50:08] » uh what's it Berkeley Heights um summit >> the bridge wise

[1:50:12] » there are there there is that model out there that yes like they'll run it on

[1:50:17] behalf of the town and it's the town's facilities. Uh, in fact, uh, Berkeley

[1:50:22] Heights, the pool is an outdoor pool, not an indoor pool, and it's Berkeley

[1:50:25] Heights pool, and the the YMCA runs it for Berkeley Heights, but it's there.

[1:50:30] » I'm not seeing that. >> Yeah, it's there. I I mean, I looked at

[1:50:34] a big um there's one out in I want to say Nebraska. There's a huge

[1:50:40] facility out in Nebraska and it's a joint effort between multiple entities

[1:50:44] including the YMCA. And you know there's you know reduced revenue that they're

[1:50:50] paying or rent that they're paying in the town is offsetting it with what the

[1:50:55] property and the buildings are. >> So when is the rent issue going to be

[1:51:00] made public? >> I guess once we settle that discussion

[1:51:04] the new one that's going up in Hopewell Valley area the town I think it's uh

[1:51:08] Pennington if I'm not mistaken it's three municipalities. They are um it's

[1:51:13] part of a redevelopment plan and the town owns the the um the land and the

[1:51:19] town will be um three towns will be looking to possibly build the building

[1:51:23] that's under negotiations. It's very in its infancy stages.

[1:51:28] » Yeah. >> Three towns.

[1:51:29] » Yes. >> Get Bayville and they're small little

[1:51:32] towns out there um next to each other. So yeah, I mean listen

[1:51:36] » and we don't know we don't know the financial

[1:51:40] » status of the townships >> because

[1:51:42] » you're correct. >> The administrator the administrator from

[1:51:47] million >> the administrator from Hopewell Valley

[1:51:49] was here at a couple of our meetings and sat in the audience and listened to what

[1:51:52] was going on. >> Is it possible I one of the next

[1:51:56] meetings have a YMCA executive come to the meeting because I I got some

[1:52:03] real uh questions I want to ask them about

[1:52:06] their organization. >> You can ask

[1:52:09] » I mean I know >> ask you don't get

[1:52:10] » I know myself I you know I've actually even mentioned to uh Veron I refer to

[1:52:16] the word Veronica professionally not my sister

[1:52:20] uh I would like to see somebody from the Y at some of these meetings myself. So

[1:52:25] because there are questions there are questions that I myself and you have

[1:52:30] that we might not be able to answer but they can. So I I think it's very

[1:52:35] important myself. But with that all right let's move on. We close.

[1:52:39] » Our next meeting is September 10th though just so you know that

[1:52:43] » it's not in two weeks. It's September 10th.

[1:52:46] » All right. Committee comments and I'm going to switch it.

[1:52:49] » We're done. >> No.

[1:52:51] » Yes. Yes. We close that. I'm going to switch it around a little

[1:52:54] bit. >> And Mr. Cartello, you're first.

[1:52:59] » Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Um, just want to thank everyone for coming out

[1:53:03] tonight. I encourage whether there's agreement or disagreement uh for folks

[1:53:07] to come out and say their peace. A lot of people were in the military and died

[1:53:13] for your right to do so. So, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you vote. And I'm

[1:53:17] glad you're active. Um, so that's the people's m microphone.

[1:53:22] And as I have said last time, if I don't do the will of the people,

[1:53:29] kick me right out. I'm going to do the will of the people. I will take a

[1:53:33] picture of it. I will stand true to Mr. Flynn and the other 30,000 people in our

[1:53:39] town. Regardless of what that is, that's what I'm going to do. I will take I will

[1:53:44] take a picture of how I vote in that booth. If I'm allowed, I would call

[1:53:51] the Division of Elections and ask that because the people deserve that, not

[1:53:54] just somebody saying something. They deserve that.

[1:53:58] Um, there's some good stuff in the town. We had the 100th anniversary at a

[1:54:02] library and so I want that to be recognized as well and do things for our

[1:54:06] seniors, our school children, and everybody in the middle. I was at a

[1:54:10] meeting uh 48 hours ago uh in our community hall. So, I want people to

[1:54:15] know about this. So, I'm always talking about controlling what we can control.

[1:54:21] And there's a Senate bill 1786 that talks about accessory dwelling units.

[1:54:28] This is this is big brother on overload. This is this is real steroid stuff. I

[1:54:33] mean, this is them coming into your town, literally in your house and in

[1:54:38] your backyard. Um, will affect every one of our municipalities. It'll affect our

[1:54:43] home values. It'll affect our way of life. And it'll affect our schools. So,

[1:54:48] an accessory dwelling unit as defined by S1786,

[1:54:54] that's Senate Bill 1786. You can see this right on Google, establishes

[1:54:58] statewide standards to permit accessory dwelling units or ADUs. I'm just saying

[1:55:03] » bill requires municipalities to allow attached or detached secondary housing

[1:55:09] units as of as of right on single and two family lots uh to combat quote the

[1:55:17] state's housing shortage and crisis. Permitted usages mandates that towns

[1:55:23] allow accessory del uh accessory dwelling units as a ministerial action.

[1:55:29] Fast track approval

[1:55:34] applies to internal spaces, basement, attics, attached additions, garage

[1:55:39] conversions, or detached backyard cottages.

[1:55:44] So, if there's ever anything that can almost immediately impact quality of

[1:55:49] life, traffic for our good friends and families out in Bamber, most of those

[1:55:53] folks are on uh septic and sewer. And you have a three bedroom or a

[1:55:58] two-bedroom home, a cottage uh built back in the 60s or early 70s. All of a

[1:56:03] sudden, now you got a big enough yard, you could have seven, eight, nine, 10,

[1:56:07] 11, 12 people. Now, it's a health issue because your septic and sewer can't

[1:56:11] handle 12 humans because it was built to handle three. Um, and we see that at the

[1:56:18] county level in different areas. So, I want you to pay attention to this.

[1:56:22] Regardless of whether you agree with us, don't like us, vote for us, don't vote

[1:56:27] for us. The skin in this game is real. This is real. And you got people outside

[1:56:32] of here want to enforce and tell you how you can live. Require us to give out

[1:56:39] permits for this. This will change the face of the town like nothing else. So

[1:56:44] if you don't like data centers, you don't like building. Imagine this.

[1:56:49] You're just having your coffee and all of a sudden maybe you don't see the

[1:56:52] water anymore. All of a sudden you see a 20 foot structure on your back door

[1:56:57] neighbor in the fence and it just blocks everything. It's for real, folks. It's

[1:57:02] happening. I want you to know about it. I want Senate Bill

[1:57:08] 1786. And if I'm not mistaken, and I'll I'll

[1:57:11] ask our our former mayor and our current uh township council. So when the bill

[1:57:16] reaches the Senate level, it already got through the assembly.

[1:57:19] » Not necessarily. >> Okay.

[1:57:21] » Uh there's no um >> means of origin. It can it can begin in

[1:57:28] the Senate or it can be get in assembly or there can be companion measures. In

[1:57:33] other words, that they move simultaneously in each house. That

[1:57:37] usually speeds up the time with which an bill can get to the governor's desk. But

[1:57:43] just because there's a bill in the Senate doesn't mean that the bill has

[1:57:46] passed through the assembly. So the take-home point, thank you, council. The

[1:57:50] take-home point is please stand shoulder-to-shoulder on this. Regardless

[1:57:54] of where you come out, regardless of of your political strike, stand

[1:57:58] shoulder-to-shoulder on it, educate yourself, and have a voice. This will

[1:58:02] change the face of our town. Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Thank you, Pete. Uh, Mr.

[1:58:07] McDonald. >> Thank you, Deputy May.

[1:58:11] » My big beef lately has been what was discovered

[1:58:17] by our current governor about the illegal

[1:58:21] people in the voting roles and that 440 of them of the 6,500

[1:58:28] absolutely voted. Now, they say how it didn't affect any any elections. Okay.

[1:58:35] tell me where they voted and then let's look at the elections. So I would

[1:58:39] recommend to this council that we write a letter to the attorney general for the

[1:58:45] state of New Jersey who is in charge of elections and demand what steps he's

[1:58:52] taking to make sure that our voter roles are clean and they have only people who

[1:58:57] are eligible to vote. And two, if he catches people who are voting illegally,

[1:59:03] what steps is he going to take? This is craziness. What's going on? You know,

[1:59:10] it it's this is only New Jersey. Can you imagine what's going on in California?

[1:59:16] How about Illinois? How about Michigan? How about some of these other crazy

[1:59:21] states that are out there? Indiana >> happened in Texas.

[1:59:24] » What's that? >> It happened in Texas. that happens. I I

[1:59:27] firm I I firmly believe Wait, let me finish. Let me finish.

[1:59:30] » All right. >> I firmly believe this happens in every

[1:59:34] state. And I think it's time for our state official who is in charge of these

[1:59:39] elections to take a stand, get involved with this,

[1:59:44] and tell us how is he going to stop it? Because if it's one election now, it's

[1:59:51] now let me explain. It's not going to be the governor or a a a congressman or or

[1:59:57] a senator. >> It's going to be here that these

[2:00:00] elections are going to be affected by the local level, maybe the county level,

[2:00:07] but that's wrong. You're going to get the wrong person that the people didn't

[2:00:11] want sitting in these spots. So, I would hope that we could do that and we all

[2:00:18] sign it and send it up and see what happened. Deputy Mayor, that's all I

[2:00:21] have. >> Thank you for that good suggestion.

[2:00:26] Juliano here. >> Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

[2:00:32] Yeah, that was what I informed them of the last time. Okay, first I just want

[2:00:35] to say thank you to Mr. Bitnik for saying something nice about our our

[2:00:40] township tonight. I I truly appreciate it. I I KNOW. That's why Did you see me

[2:00:47] clapping my hands? I WAS SO HAPPY about that for a change.

[2:00:53] Um >> we'll see Rich on the swings on

[2:00:57] » on another happy note. We got a nice u little message about our um

[2:01:03] » yeah EMS Captain Ray Benedict and his uh another gentleman that was with him was

[2:01:09] Matt. The situation that a family had a medical emergency. they were out at a

[2:01:13] restaurant and she just wanted us to know how wonderful they treated her and

[2:01:18] took care of her and followed up with her. So I it's always nice to get those

[2:01:22] kind of compliments to tell you the truth. Um on August 6th I had note told

[2:01:28] everybody about this at the last meeting about there uh going to hold a tax

[2:01:33] relief uh filing event and it really turned out very well there. Um it was

[2:01:39] for the senior freeze the anchor the New Jersey program there. There were 49

[2:01:43] people that showed up for the information and that's really wonderful

[2:01:46] that they had the opportunity to do that. That's why I had announced it

[2:01:50] because even myself filling out paperwork sometimes is a little tricky.

[2:01:54] So, it's nice that somebody was there to kind of walk them through each step of

[2:01:58] that which was a good showing from for the people and they were all very

[2:02:02] appreciative of that. Um, the other thing I wanted to tell you is that next

[2:02:07] Saturday is our 5K here. Our municipal alliance runs a 5K race. Um Heather does

[2:02:14] a phenomenal job, but it's it's a big undertaking and anybody that has extra

[2:02:20] time next Saturday, come on out and help her. Mr. Bidnik, she would love you to

[2:02:26] help her. >> A water station. Maybe a water station.

[2:02:29] » Water station. Anything. Sometimes it's just even even just watching that you

[2:02:33] know the kids because there's a lot of kids involved. There's a little thing

[2:02:36] for them to do. So, she can always use the help. So, if there's anybody that's

[2:02:40] available next Saturday, get that's it. Get your steps in. All of the above. So,

[2:02:45] it it would be a great uh opportunity for you. But other than that, Deputy

[2:02:49] Mayor, I'm I'm good. >> Thank you.

[2:02:52] » First of all, I want to thank everybody for coming out tonight, you know, with

[2:02:55] your questions and comments. We do we do we do hear you, you know, whether we

[2:03:00] agree or disagree, but I do appreciate you coming out. I want to give a warning

[2:03:04] on the 5K. with good intentions. Sometimes you go

[2:03:10] to help and then if you're stupid like me, you

[2:03:15] listen to everybody that's going to walk the 5K and you join in. At 69 years old

[2:03:20] or anywhere like that, do not do your first 5K cold duck.

[2:03:25] » I did finish. Time wasn't bad, but I ended up with a knee problem for almost

[2:03:31] another year or so. But it's easy. It's a great event. It ra it's uh fantastic.

[2:03:37] It's well attended, but it's easy to get sucked in and join everybody because you

[2:03:42] know what? Everybody says they were going to walk and we all walk a lot of

[2:03:45] steps a day. When they shoot that gun, everybody takes off like a rabbit. So,

[2:03:50] just be careful. Again, I want to thank uh the ex uh exit 74 for

[2:03:57] their art exhibit and putting it around because I tell you what, all night long

[2:04:01] I've been looking >> really nice

[2:04:02] » looking at this and it looks a lot better than the

[2:04:05] » I think some of them pictures were older than the walls in this room.

[2:04:09] Uh this past month, one of the big events that did go on was the uh library

[2:04:16] event. Uh I guess it was 50 years for our library being part of the system.

[2:04:21] It's also the library system's 100 years old.

[2:04:24] » 150 >> 150 years old. And

[2:04:28] » no it's not 100. >> It's older than us.

[2:04:32] » And our old and our oldest librarian got to speak that night and she's actually

[2:04:37] in the audience tonight. Uh Mrs. Pat.

[2:04:47] with her big smile. >> It was fun and thank you very much for

[2:04:52] attending.

[2:04:57] » Oh, I wanted to make a comment towards something you said, Pete, about voting

[2:05:02] and vote get taking a picture of it. If I'm right, the what we're committing

[2:05:09] to is not our vote in the voting booth. What we're concerned about, which will

[2:05:14] be on tape in front of everybody >> and on TV, is the vote of how we're

[2:05:21] going to stand behind the people. >> So, I don't I don't think I don't think

[2:05:25] the voting uh having to check with the county on that. Uh this is something

[2:05:29] personally we got to do up here. So, uh we're going to be front and center,

[2:05:33] right? >> So, I just wanted to clarify that up.

[2:05:36] Just a quick uh couple things I just want to hit real quick. I know a lot of

[2:05:40] people's been asking about that nice, beautiful job on Route 9.

[2:05:45] » That is the new surface of the highway. It's called Chip Seal. Uh pretty much

[2:05:52] the town's they've been pretty much north and south of the town. The towns

[2:05:56] next to us are getting it. According to the state, it's a state highway. We have

[2:06:01] nothing to do about this. It's to prolong the life of the asphalt for 10

[2:06:05] to 15 years. Whether they're right or wrong, people been asking. I researched

[2:06:10] the question. Our director of public works got me all the answers.

[2:06:15] What you see out there is what we got. So if you don't like it, you can write

[2:06:19] the state and see how much luck you have. Uh big thing going on right now is

[2:06:25] uh stay away from Hane Street tonight. Uh last night they started uh pave

[2:06:30] milling and paving it because the curbs and the sidewalk improvements on Hane

[2:06:34] Street on both sides are done and completed.

[2:06:38] Phase one paving westbound has been milled and completed. That was last

[2:06:43] night. And phase two is tonight. So I would suggest if you're going that

[2:06:49] direction, find another route around town. Pen Avenue North,

[2:06:55] uh, Stuben Avenue and Court and Stony Port Point. The curb improvements have

[2:07:02] been done and the paving's going to be begin sometime in the next couple weeks.

[2:07:07] And other than that, that's all I have tonight.

[2:07:11] » I can respond to Mr. Barley's question. The statute.

[2:07:16] » Steve Chris going to >> answer for your statute.

[2:07:19] » I don't know whether you had a pen. If you don't have a pen to write this down,

[2:07:22] I'll write it down for you. >> Especially when I come here. Um,

[2:07:28] as I stated before, it's uh NJSA >> NJSA

[2:07:33] » 1937-1.

[2:07:38] We just haven't set a new one. >> Um, hang on a second.

[2:07:41] » Okay. NJSA-1 >> 1937-1.

[2:07:48] » And that's at the end. And yes, it says when the governing body of any

[2:07:53] municipality or county desires to ascertain the sentiment of the legal

[2:07:57] voters of the municipality or county upon any question or policy pertaining

[2:08:02] to the government or internal affairs thereof. And there is no other statute

[2:08:07] by which the sentiment can be ascertained by the submission of such

[2:08:10] question to a vote of the electors in the municipality or county at any

[2:08:16] election to be held therein. The county body may adopt at any regular meeting an

[2:08:21] ordinance or a resolution requesting the clerk of the county to print upon

[2:08:25] official ballots to be used at the next ensuing general election a certain

[2:08:30] proposition be formulated and expressed in the ordinance or resolution in

[2:08:35] concise form. Such qu requests shall be filed with the

[2:08:39] clerk of the county not later than 88 days previous to the election.

[2:08:45] Now NJSA19 colon 37y 4

[2:08:58] states such result shall not bind the governing body from which the ordinance

[2:09:02] or resolution emanated nor be taken or construed as any other than an

[2:09:08] expression of the sentiments of the voters to be followed or disregarded by

[2:09:13] the governing body in its discretion. So it the governing body's hands are

[2:09:19] tied. If it has a question, it must be non-binding

[2:09:23] and it's free for the government. >> Everything's known about it.

[2:09:27] » Yeah. >> Is that the reason?

[2:09:29] » What's that? >> Everything's not known about it. Yeah,

[2:09:32] just >> it's just that

[2:09:35] it's just no the question on the ballot means that it's nonbinding on any member

[2:09:41] of the governing body or the governing body itself as a whole either the

[2:09:45] current or future governing body. >> Why?

[2:09:49] » Because they don't this they felt that when they enacted the statute that a

[2:09:53] governing body shouldn't be bound by it. That it was simply asked as an

[2:09:58] expression of the sentiment of the voters. That's all.

[2:10:02] » And what would constitute a binding resolution?

[2:10:06] » A binding resolution would mean that whatever the voters decided, that's in

[2:10:10] fact what would take place. Such as a binding vote on a bond

[2:10:16] referendum by the state of New Jersey or a school board when they have a bond

[2:10:21] issue, whatever the expression of the people are at that time would carry. It

[2:10:26] would be out of the hands of the governing body, whatever that governing

[2:10:29] body may be. And we can sit and debate the wisdom of

[2:10:34] having that there as to whether it's binding or non-binding, but that's the

[2:10:39] statute. So that's what they're following. But take a look at it and and

[2:10:43] if you have other thoughts on it, be happy to hear.

[2:10:47] » Okay. Okay. Thank >> I know how your attorneys are.

[2:10:53] » I know. I know. I know. You have three attorneys. You get four different

[2:10:56] opinions. >> Yeah. All right,

[2:11:00] » I hear you. >> Thank Thank you, Mr. Congress.

[2:11:02] » Motion. >> Okay. Motion to adjurnn.

[2:11:05] » We have to do the resolution. >> Yeah, we got to do the resolution.

[2:11:07] » Resolution 2026-263, resolution of the township county of

[2:11:11] ocean stating authorizing the convening of an executive session in accordance

[2:11:15] with the open public meetings act to discuss personnel matters pending

[2:11:17] anticipated litigation to matters. >> A second.

[2:11:21] » Second. >> All in favor?

[2:11:23] » I motion to move it. >> It pass unanimous.

[2:11:27] » All in favor? I >> I

Town Meeting 8-13-26

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