[4:53] and then we'll move on to the second one.

[4:55] » Um, are we good on the discussion on those three? Okay. All in favor?

[5:02] All opposed?

[5:07] Um, and then I would like to entertain a motion to approve the reallocation of

[5:11] funds within the fiscal year 2627 operating budget hospitality fund in the

[5:17] amount of $4,300 moving funds from the account 41805-55620

[5:22] community development projects and partnerships to 418551

[5:28] salary and administration for payroll purposes to fund the finance director

[5:32] position. So that's going to be that balance and I am calling for a second on

[5:36] that.

[5:40] Any discussion? >> Tell me again which one it's coming

[5:44] from. >> Uh it is from 41855620

[5:49] community development projects and partnerships.

[5:52] » Okay. >> So what's that mean from the balance

[5:57] that >> around 12 grand? There's still quite a

[6:02] big chunk of money. It was I believe it was a little over 16 grand in that line.

[6:08] » Okay. But we've used money. >> So if we had 16, we took out we're

[6:13] taking out four. >> We haven't used any from that.

[6:18] » We haven't used money. >> No, not in this fiscal year.

[6:22] » It was last fiscal year. >> We used money from that. Yep.

[6:25] » Yep. We're only what 40 days into this one.

[6:30] All

[6:40] right. Any other discussion? Any other questions?

[6:43] All in favor? Okay. All opposed.

[6:49] Amazing. And I got a couple more here. Sorry. I would like to entertain a

[6:54] motion to approve the termination of the green fine collie contract. effective

[7:00] October 31st of 2026. Um with the finance director position

[7:05] coming in, that uh was the agreed upon um span of time that we would keep them

[7:11] on staff just to have that transition period for the new finance director. And

[7:16] I am calling for a second on that second and any discussion and I have said the

[7:24] contract. Is there anything in there that's going to come back and buy us new

[7:28] on the contract itself? just asking because I don't know I'm sure the

[7:32] determination flaw >> 30 days say that be

[7:36] » that's why I want to make sure there was anything

[7:38] » yeah but with this approved tonight we can give them more than enough time

[7:45] » y >> do we have

[7:47] » we plan to have the finance director to go visit with them and actually sit and

[7:51] be able to absorb as much as possible before they're done

[7:55] » if they use software >> software wise um we are actually

[7:59] transitioning. Can you share more about that? I know you've been involved in

[8:02] that process. >> We are going full spectrum back to the

[8:06] Smart Fusion Harris software. We already have about half of um what is needed for

[8:13] accounting. Um but September 1st, we're going to go live with the HR, the

[8:20] payroll, the AP and AR with Harris. It will be all integrated

[8:26] » and all of that comes out of pub subdues and fees.

[8:36] » Right now, our accounting is kind of segmented in the way that they're doing

[8:39] it. This would all bring you into the same system.

[8:42] » Oh, you gra >> um we are hopeful for the 24th of this

[8:49] month. >> Okay. That'll give them quite a while

[8:53] with reinventing before they're done. >> I'll be sending the official offer

[8:56] letter tomorrow since council approved those budgeted funds and then I'll

[9:01] discuss with that individual a bit start date.

[9:04] » So technically

[9:08] we approved budgeted funds for that position. All we did was approve the

[9:12] movement of money from one place to another. We never approved that position

[9:18] in the budget. There >> is no finance director. It's an AP

[9:23] person. >> We're basically creating a new position.

[9:28] » Yes, I agree.

[9:31] » Funds are being moved to position different on the line.

[9:40] » I think he's saying that position, >> right? But what he's saying is we never

[9:44] actually made the actual We talked about it, but I don't think we ever voted to

[9:47] make that official. But it's budgeted. It's budgeted. Even

[9:51] if you don't have someone you don't have someone occupying that position, not

[9:57] » something they can do is just make it part of the emotion.

[10:02] » But I mean, do we eliminate J position? I get

[10:06] » that was that was part of the discussion that we had in the executive.

[10:10] » Correct. >> So we got to be careful about what we're

[10:13] discussing so that it's not because this is a public meeting now.

[10:16] So, yeah, that's [laughter] >> I'm just thinking we have a gap. We

[10:24] probably need to fill the gap just so that it's

[10:27] » between now and the 24th. >> So,

[10:32] Could you not do this? I was asking the other questions. It's part of your poll

[10:36] motion here. We're going to approve the movement of funds with the deletion of

[10:39] these inspections from the addition of the bonition.

[10:44] » Do it all. We could, but technically don't forget that those two positions

[10:48] are not approved by council. The funding is,

[10:51] » but council allocates positions >> for finance director. We've had one

[10:55] before. We just >> It's part of the budget process whether

[10:59] or set up. Council has to allocate actual positions. You can't create

[11:03] positions allocated. >> But there was an existing position. It

[11:06] just wasn't filled. >> No, no, no.

[11:09] Well, we're not starting this right here.

[11:15] » So, we're updating the AP to a new title basically.

[11:20] » I think everybody's agreeing to make his his point clear, I guess.

[11:26] » Is there a way we can do it all at one time? It's just I don't think that we're

[11:29] conf there's still loose end

[11:34] because there's a position that's still going but that's budgeted. You could sit

[11:38] there and say that it's budgeted >> but

[11:42] changing that position to something else in that executive.

[11:50] » Is there a way to do it all? We can say but if we didn't make a vote we should

[11:55] have come out of there and made a vote. So, we talked about creating that

[11:57] position. We never voted on actually making that position.

[12:01] » I I could be wrong, but I don't >> So, we put out a job posting for

[12:04] something that we're not interested in doing.

[12:06] » No, no. I'm just saying I don't think we ever actually created a position. We

[12:09] were all in agreeance. We want the position. What he's trying to say is

[12:12] that that position never

[12:18] to her previous motion that would address that concern. I mean, I can make

[12:22] a motion to >> Well, I mean, you finally Yeah.

[12:28] » Thank everybody. >> Yeah. I don't think it was that. It

[12:31] wasn't that just he's trying to say that we don't I don't think he what he's

[12:34] meant that we never officially voted to create that position and eliminate the

[12:38] AP position. It's not that we're not in agreeance on it. I think he's just

[12:42] saying that technically it's not. >> He wants to see that position gone. This

[12:45] position >> I mean it can happen.

[12:49] » Yeah. I can entertain a motion to remove on update the title. Honestly, that's

[12:55] what it's doing. >> Update the title and put in a second.

[13:00] » Um, so let's go ahead and approve the termination and then I'll add that at

[13:04] the end before we adjourn from the special call session. So, all in favor

[13:08] of approving the termination of the Green Finny Collie contract effective

[13:12] October 31st. Okay. All opposed.

[13:18] Okay. So, I would like to entertain a motion to adjust the AP position title

[13:26] to finance director. I think that's all that needs to be

[13:30] said.

[13:35] Um, and I need to call for a second.

[13:41] You make notes on this.

[13:49] start. I don't want to just change any one because

[13:55] » that would have to be two motions then because you have to eliminate one and

[13:58] then start a new >> yeah I'm pretty sure correct you would

[14:03] have to eliminate first and then create a new position.

[14:09] » I mean I really think we can just do change.

[14:13] Can we just word it? There's definitely one big motion that we want to eliminate

[14:17] the position that position. I'm just trying to find the motion itself was

[14:22] specifically for finance director. That's correct.

[14:25] » So, we've already funded the position. Do we do we need to make a motion to get

[14:30] rid of it if the funding for that current position is already

[14:35] » taken away out of this meeting tonight to change the current AP to a new

[14:42] finance director like that because you just made the change she has she holds

[14:47] the title she holds that position and walk out of

[14:52] here saying you know what you're going to do the findings

[14:55] » no I I get what you're saying But you don't have it. So it's clean. This ends,

[14:59] this begins to first, you know, move the person that you already selected.

[15:04] » So So would it be easier to just make a motion to just eliminate that position

[15:08] then since the funding of the finance director has already been proposed and

[15:11] then it's just one motion? >> Yeah.

[15:15] » Okay. >> All right. So let's adjust that then.

[15:18] We're going to go ahead and entertain a motion to remove the AP position. And

[15:24] I'm calling for a second.

[15:28] Okay. Any discussion?

[15:34] » Will that terminate when the finance director comes on? So,

[15:39] » so 24th, she would be done in >> correct.

[15:43] » Will we need a lapse for her? I'm just asking. Um,

[15:48] » that's probably something. >> Green Finny will continue to provide any

[15:51] additional support needed for the transition for whoever gets that

[15:54] position. Correct. All in favor?

[16:00] All opposed? Amazing. All right. I would like to make

[16:05] a motion to adjurnn from the special call session. Do I have a motion?

[16:10] Okay. And any discussion? All in favor?

[16:18] All right. We are on a special session. We'll jump into

[16:24] session.

[16:27] All right, Mary, you're up first. You've got the first item on the agenda, the

[16:31] update on the tree removal near Burn Street.

[17:03] And this is a common problem. It occurs in almost every city where subdivision

[17:09] maps out roads or streets that are then never built. Um, sometimes they're

[17:14] called paper roads or they can also be called ghost roads. Um,

[17:20] in the memo I set out first of all what we know. Um, thanks to Gerald's work and

[17:25] uh my review of what I could read of the subdivision plat they were prepared in

[17:30] 1951. The deeds on the um on the plat they do

[17:37] end at the edge of this road that kind of cut through deeds that back up uh

[17:42] back and back through each other. Um the area is not listed on the state uh DOT

[17:49] website as being a state road. Um according to Gerald's research, the

[17:54] register does not have a record of an actual deed coming to the city.

[17:59] Um I understand that fire services may have used the area for fire access, but

[18:04] I cannot tell that it was ever paid or actually cut and registered in the

[18:08] system. Um, in looking at Google Earth and Google Maps and the tax assessors

[18:14] uerial shots, it looks like some of the residents have actually extended their

[18:19] water lots right up to the edge of the road or almost onto the midline to use

[18:23] that property um with their fences or or grass blowing for their yard. Things I

[18:30] don't know. Um given the age of the plat, it's

[18:34] possible that the subdivision was reviewed by the county. And in previous

[18:39] subdivisions in and near Liberty, um often the roads were dedicated to the

[18:44] county. So I don't know what the county's records away from the register

[18:49] may show. Um I don't know the physical state of the tree because I'm not an

[18:54] arborist as I shared with you last time. Um, and so I don't know for sure that

[19:00] the tree needs removal or whether it could be something else. Maybe just

[19:03] trimming or bits or something. I don't know. I also don't know. Um,

[19:09] since I'm not a surveyor, I can't tell whether the tree is 100% located in the

[19:15] uh the area that's marked on the the plat as a road. Um, typically trees on

[19:21] property lines where both property owners own things. Um, that can be a

[19:26] little bit complex in terms of who pays for what. Um, I don't know. I don't

[19:32] think there's any sewer or water lines in the area that's marked as the the

[19:36] road on the plant, but that's something to determine for sure. See, I got here.

[19:42] uh because you don't want to give up an easement or a right of way to enter in

[19:46] there and care for your lines if there's lines in there. Um and then I don't know

[19:51] whether since 1951 and no I was not born in 1951. I was not alive. So just I can

[19:56] see Sierra looking at me like yeah. >> Um we don't know whether the cities

[20:02] maintain that but that area whether they mowed it, whether they cut trees down.

[20:08] Um the area right by Miss Stoy's house, it um it does look well maintained, but

[20:13] I'm thinking the neighbors probably took care of that. I listed some possible

[20:18] options of things to do. Check with the county regarding your records. Um get a

[20:23] formal title search by professional. I can't do title searches because I don't

[20:27] keep title insurance, not being a real estate attorney. Have it surveyed so we

[20:32] know whether the tree is actually in the u any property if we own it. So

[20:37] determining whether you own it first and then whether the tree is in it, have a

[20:41] tree company or an arborist look at the tree and determine its health.

[20:46] Um, and then one option would be if you own it and the tree does need some work,

[20:52] um, decide whether the city's going to do it, but know that you set a

[20:55] precedent, if it's not on your property of doing that kind of work and then

[21:00] everybody who has a tree that's close will want their tree taken care of

[21:04] because you did it for one, you got to do it for all. That's something. And

[21:08] then finally, there's always an option to do nothing if the city does not own

[21:12] the area or the tree needs to come down. Um, another thing I thought of was

[21:16] typically claims for trees would go through the insurance company. So, I was

[21:20] thinking maybe you'all might contact your um your claims representative with

[21:25] your insurer and just see if they have I'm sure this comes up all the time. See

[21:29] if they have suggestions or guidance on that process. Um, and finally, um, there

[21:34] was a question to ask about, um, should the city abandon that platted area that

[21:40] was never, um, if we don't own it, we don't need to abandon. Um, if it's never

[21:46] actually been a road, um, for anything but private access to those those homes

[21:51] in that neighborhood, then I don't think you need to do it. But there's typically

[21:55] two ways to abandon property. Liberty does not have enough residents to use

[22:00] ordinance. we'd have to go to a court and there's some requirements about

[22:04] publishing in the newspaper, posting the property, certified letters to all

[22:09] people that above the the um the platted road. Um and then you have to go to the

[22:14] court for the judge to decide one, can it be abandoned, and then what happens

[22:17] to the property once you abandon it? Um typically, if there's no other claims on

[22:22] the property, it would be divided down the midline and the that property would

[22:26] go to those abing properties. Don't get this right.

[22:29] » [laughter] >> So that's kind of what we um what I see

[22:33] and so any guidance from councilman would be good as y'all you review them

[22:38] and maybe look at it um you know and get your thoughts to me or to the mayor to

[22:43] Katie. Have we checked with any other municipalities see if they have the same

[22:48] issue? I mean this all milary logistics. Were they made that way to have this app

[22:55] was cut from I was not alive in 195 >> and [laughter]

[23:02] um I know that it was that was the purpose of that was for trash pickup

[23:09] here. And I just wonder about the other municipalities

[23:12] villages. >> This happens not just with mill

[23:15] villages. It happens in all developments. Okay. Um, and

[23:19] I I get all kinds of questions and arguments about it like um who's

[23:25] responsible for drainage in that area and um it's in Clemson I mean Clemson's

[23:32] pretty big and it's I can think of maybe 10 places off the top of my head that

[23:35] are exactly like this either where roads weren't connected you know that supposed

[23:39] to connect so you'd have a loop and it just never got done and the question is

[23:44] who owns that property Mr. Johnson for taking care of it. So that's really the

[23:48] the question and that's that's the question

[23:52] here is how do we figure out who owns it? Um and if we don't own it um are

[23:57] there any actions that you want to take? I mean I hate to say

[24:03] I can't tell whether the tree is solely in that it is a big tree. Um but that's

[24:09] going to apply to all of them. a baby. >> Yeah. Streets and

[24:15] » Yeah. Like you said, if we do this for one

[24:18] » have to do some years back. According to what she

[24:22] told me, I don't know if that's right or wrong.

[24:25] » I saw that she lived she moved in in 94 maybe.

[24:29] » I don't think I imagined that, but I might have imagined that.

[24:32] » Search doesn't cost a whole lot of money. That probably be the easiest

[24:36] route. We did actually have a lady from the forestry commission come in recently

[24:40] and she said that she's been getting around to all the cities trying to

[24:44] provide arborist um resources. So I might get in contact

[24:49] with her too and see if she'd like to help us out with this question.

[24:52] » I think it's great. >> They actually just stopped in last week,

[24:55] dropped off a whole bunch of goodies. >> One of us three need to update this

[24:59] week. I know you created the book or do you want to update it later? Um, I would

[25:04] probably have Katie do it, but I'll I will get with her to update.

[25:08] » I want to make sure if somebody does. >> She is very concerned.

[25:12] » Yes, I know. >> I got big trees in my yard, too.

[25:17] » Well, I was going to say, you know, if it's not the city doesn't know, that's

[25:21] really a private property ownership kind of thing. And it's not

[25:25] that I don't have empathy for it because, you know, you talk to someone

[25:28] that has owned two houses and both of them had huge trees fall on them. So, um

[25:32] I definitely know the the worry. Um but I can't commit the

[25:38] city to cleaning it up until we don't break things

[25:42] or or if we had a rideway and the tree was over a sewer line or a water line.

[25:47] That might be different. Um because you you don't want to have a a waterline

[25:51] break or something. You got to maintain Do we have a map of sewer lines for

[25:56] those properties that we or is that available? You can't see it on the the

[26:02] » It looks like nobody close by did a a property plat.

[26:07] » They just relied on the subdivision plat

[26:11] back in 1951. It was actually originally did as a a

[26:17] driveway Steven Mill's name. He the only thing he found he could never find where

[26:22] they left the mills name and found where it was dedicated as a public rideway. It

[26:28] was still in the mills names ownership. >> See I don't know that exists anymore.

[26:35] Yeah. >> So I mean I don't know at that time

[26:39] whether they were inside city limits or not.

[26:41] » Yeah. And and where Paul went to that day with me is he said, you know, it's

[26:44] kind of like most of your roads or city roads. City doesn't actually have these

[26:48] on their roads. I don't know. Most of them are actually considered

[26:52] prescriptive rightways county city and all back in 9045

[26:57] roads on anything statements. So I think that's what this is. I'm not

[27:04] I don't know if the city owns it doesn't own it or whatever the case may be. I

[27:07] just want to make sure somebody >> I don't think could have been involved

[27:10] in that. you know, development process with the mill the county when the when

[27:15] the mill it was Woodside Mills development, you know,

[27:19] » um did it. So, I don't know. Sometimes that could be an economic development

[27:22] thing that they work with include. >> So, what is our next

[27:27] » I would say do search personally >> and I'll get with the artist and see

[27:32] what we can get out of those two things. You do a title search, it's a couple

[27:35] hundred and then find out and GI says I have a run out of

[27:40] » I think the ar would do it first. She was excited to get looking at trees in

[27:43] the city. >> Is there a property paying close to that

[27:45] tree? >> I didn't see I went out and looked at I

[27:48] didn't see anything close >> grass over so

[27:53] what anybody's got a box finder or mobile could look and see if there's a

[27:57] property pen nearby. >> I bet building works good.

[28:01] » Yeah. and go out.

[28:05] » We could also do a locate for for the length of it so you know what's cuz I

[28:11] don't know what's in there. >> B might be on the tile search that you

[28:15] tell us yes or no and says no we out of them. You just do the tile search find

[28:20] out if you own it. If we don't own it

[28:24] I'd hate to spend that much money on cutting tree down them and everybody

[28:27] starting beating the door down the trees cut down and we even find out we don't

[28:31] even own it. If it's that cheap, >> it won't be it'll be several hundred.

[28:36] » I mean, yeah, 2500 to 5,000 to take that tree down

[28:41] more. >> What' we get? 3,300. That one. Just take

[28:44] it down. >> We can do a title search. Everybody's

[28:49] good with

[28:53] it. >> Can we get

[28:55] » Can we get the property card of the owner that has this property?

[28:59] » Kevin and Sophie. And we get a card of the property

[29:06] card. It tell you where

[29:10] it's right. That's the right she's talking

[29:14] about right there. That TV would be nice. Yeah.

[29:19] » And I understand where she's at, but >> she's at 103.

[29:23] » Yep. If we do the arborist and we we take responsibility for doing it or

[29:27] respons that tree from now on. >> I think we would just assess it. Okay.

[29:31] We would do anything past that. Assess the health of the tree.

[29:36] » I have a a print out from the tax website and makes it one.

[29:43] » I think right though. It looks like the way it looks like it goes all the way

[29:47] through. >> Yeah. It goes all

[29:50] in the trash or something back build. >> They had back alley back in the days,

[29:56] didn't they? >> People used to put their cans in the

[30:00] backyard. He did say

[30:06] » years ago they freaking

[30:11] That's how they started. Well, somebody's

[30:24] in room with them nextually.

[30:36] I'm sure there's other things, but follow I think she has several of them.

[30:39] » She does that question. So we got this one

[30:44] that we'll follow up with her by Friday.

[30:55] » Put that baby in.

[30:59] » So we'll do the rest. >> Okay. Awesome.

[31:04] » She can see the babies are not see.

[31:09] Next up on the agenda is the discussion of the municipal donation policy and

[31:13] mayor, you are also up to that.

[31:22] » Well, there's there's too much for my three brain cells to remember anyway.

[31:25] So, okay. First thing I was going to say just to start this conversation. So,

[31:29] this kind of came up and with some discussions around how the city is

[31:33] actually donating to various things. Um, should we have a policy? Should it be at

[31:38] the discretion of the mayor? Should it be at discretion of mayor and council?

[31:42] Um, this year we made a donation. Well, last year we made a donation to the cat

[31:45] garage rescue. Um, we put $2,000 towards what they are doing in the city of

[31:51] Liberty to um to spay and neuter cats to reduce our cat population. Um, it kind

[31:57] of spurred the discussion of how much should we be be donating to things? How

[32:01] often should there be a plan in place? Um, we also donate to Pickkins County

[32:05] Meals on Wheels every year. Um, and so it just kind of makes a larger question

[32:10] of who we donate to, how often, and why. >> So, go ahead. Sorry. Um, this memo

[32:15] addresses primarily the donation of physical um or real estate items. Um,

[32:21] currently your ordinance requires that in order to dispose of anything

[32:24] » Oh, this is not on the agenda. >> Oh, what's on the agenda?

[32:28] » Your donation policy. >> Well, this this wouldn't be covered in

[32:31] that. So it's about basically it's disposable

[32:35] of items. The donation policy is something that basically two different

[32:40] » that's two different things. >> No, I think donation is covered in this.

[32:44] » Listen and see and then if you want me to shut up, I can do that.

[32:46] » No, I just want to make sure that we're covering the right thing. Yeah, this

[32:50] Yeah, this is all disposal of city. >> But disposal includes donations.

[32:55] » Yeah. >> Monetary values. Okay. So

[32:59] » basically there's two two things you have other than funds. Um you have real

[33:03] estate and you have personal property. Personal property is basically non-real

[33:07] estate. Um your ordinance requires that for anything to be disposed of. And I

[33:13] use the word disposed. I'm not talking about um trash. I mean given away

[33:20] » what happens to it basically if it leaves the city. Um it's supposed to

[33:24] come to council. And that's a very restrictive policy because then you

[33:27] spend all day arguing about well these clothes in the lost and found what do we

[33:32] do with those or you know so um state law basically says you have to dispose

[33:37] of um or alienate real property by ordinance but you can do the other by

[33:42] resolution and typically what happens is um because you have an ordinance talking

[33:46] about how to convey things away from the city um you'll need to do it by

[33:52] ordinance because of the equal dignity thing where you have you can only change

[33:56] militants buy um the goals of changing the policy and

[34:00] I think they would definitely address the donation policy too. So basically

[34:04] you would be conveying funds um and I'll address a little bit on

[34:09] that. >> Sorry. Um I knew there would be an

[34:14] objection. Thanks Carol and John. You put Jennifer up to it.

[34:19] » Jim, thanks for having us. program. >> Basically, your goals will be to

[34:23] maximize the value to the city, provide transparency to the public as to what's

[34:27] happening with publicly owned items and funds. Um, set fair methods for sale and

[34:33] donation, and then protect the staff and council from accusations that they

[34:37] misused or or that they were somehow, you know, improperly.

[34:45] Um, suggestions to streamline the process in terms of I mean, you have

[34:48] several different kind of things. And you have worthless things, things that

[34:52] cannot be used by anybody. You have surplus, which are things that the city

[34:56] either doesn't need anymore or which have become obsolete. Like if you look

[35:00] at the materials used for water lines from 15 years ago, they're going to be

[35:04] totally different today. Same with water meters,

[35:08] things like that. Uh unusable things, maybe um you've eliminated a function

[35:13] and you don't need the supplies for that. uh or maybe you have set that's um

[35:18] damaged in some way. Um so basically what I'm thinking is once you delineate

[35:26] things that are worthless versus um things that have some value then

[35:30] [clears throat] you determine um how do we dispose of those things? Your current

[35:35] ordinance requires that you have um basically a city auction a public

[35:41] auction of things. um and did it was written in early 1990s and didn't

[35:46] anticipate online auctions. So that's um that's a something that you can clarify

[35:52] in terms of doing that and go deals of course is kind of the the standard that

[35:56] people are using nowadays. Um, and basically once you set your way

[36:01] for the administration or department is to value things that's worthless or

[36:06] whatever terms you use in terms of surplus or unusable or obsolete, things

[36:10] that still have some value. Um, you set what the what the method is to get rid

[36:16] of those things. Um like police often trade in weapons um to get more advanced

[36:23] and equipment to get more advanced stuff and that would be something actually

[36:26] tradeins are um allowed under your current ordinance. A trade in cars,

[36:31] trade in equipment if you can to get the price down, but um it would require also

[36:37] a report from administration to council uh in your public session. And that way

[36:43] you'll both be sharing with the public and with your council members um how

[36:47] things are departing from the city. Um and then I put on number four I put some

[36:52] other provisions about emergency donations to agencies and nonprofits

[36:57] when there is something going on whether it's a hurricane or it's a drought or

[37:01] extreme heat, extreme cold. Uh what to do if something doesn't sell sell at an

[37:07] auction or on gov deals. um when that you can determine something scrap and

[37:12] just select for scrap value. um rotating system for donation to nonprofits uh

[37:18] might be a way once you identify which nonprofits what services they're

[37:23] providing that are good for your public in your community then I think that you

[37:27] know you might want to look at either identifying what your goal is with those

[37:32] donations whether it's meals on wheels obviously shutins and feeding feeding

[37:36] people that can't get out or can't fix their own meals I mean those that's a

[37:40] good option I don't know if there is another option for that particular um

[37:44] thing. But once you identify what your goals are with donations to nonprofits,

[37:48] um that's something that um is good and I think you can include that in your

[37:53] annual budget as well. U but if you have something and you have like six

[37:57] nonprofits that do the same service or six nonprofits that are all providing

[38:02] something good for their their missions, then you may want to rotate around. Do

[38:07] one one year, do one the next year, maybe do two one year, two one year, you

[38:11] know, that kind of thing. And then finally, I think you need a provision in

[38:15] here that that requires that it doesn't disallow I don't have a problem with

[38:19] employees bidding on stuff. I don't think they can use inside information

[38:23] and I think they have to bid in the same way that any member of the public would

[38:26] bid on something. So like if you put a truck up for, you know, an old truck on

[38:31] um online for sale, then they bid in the same way. They can't have a secret bid

[38:36] and they can't know what the bids that are coming in are. Um, but if they want

[38:41] to bid on something, I think that's fair. And I think that goes for council

[38:44] members, too. As long as you don't use inside information, you know, you can

[38:47] bid in just the same way that everybody else is. So, that's kind of where I was

[38:51] thinking about it. And I I guess I over incorporated your donations.

[38:55] » Two things, >> but I think it's really it's really the

[38:58] same the same principle is you're taking um either monies or things of value and

[39:04] then sending them out of of the city. Um, and so you have to identify your

[39:09] goals and then how you're going to accomplish that from a method

[39:12] standpoint. >> So the reporting part of it could

[39:14] probably be included in the administrator's report or deputy

[39:17] administrator's report based on anything that's been disposed of the valuation,

[39:21] the method, all of that. So item to the income

[39:26] » and I put down it could be quarterly. I don't know how how much stuff you have

[39:30] to get rid of a lot. You know, for me, this is just me

[39:35] talking and I've got a lot to say a lot of times. I do agree it's that some of

[39:39] this policy is a little restrictive. Now, I do feel like you get into capital

[39:45] assets that's different. Yeah. >> Capital assets something more

[39:49] traditionally in most government agencies. I think those items should

[39:53] come back to council. The reason I say that we got we got a guy over here

[39:56] that's an expert in the field of mechanics, machinery, vehicles and

[40:00] things like that before we disclose those items. He may have some better

[40:04] ideas or uses when it comes to that. You know, Jeff's into water and sewer the

[40:10] capital water and sewer items. He may have ideas on

[40:13] » I think that's fair because I think that you define what happens

[40:16] » based on how much Yeah, true capital. So I would I would person donations. This

[40:22] is just me. I'm in the risk of getting in trouble here

[40:27] for me when it comes to to donating to to nonprofit

[40:38] » supporter of meals on wheels. >> Now I don't think it's the government's

[40:41] responsibility to prop up an agency. I think it's more of a individual's

[40:46] personal preference and choice. For me personally, I donate time, talent,

[40:50] effort, and financially to one products, but I don't know if the government

[40:55] should be in the business of picking winners and losers or something. We gave

[40:57] Mills on Wheels 500, but we gave $3,000. And I'm not I'm

[41:06] just throwing out as an example. I'm for me, I think government our core function

[41:11] is not nonprofits. For me, government's core functions is to operate as

[41:17] efficiently and provide the best service to our residents. Now, as a council

[41:22] member, my job to nonprofits is to support them financially, physically,

[41:29] and mentally any way that I can personally not the government. That's

[41:34] just my personal opinion. >> And I think that's a fair thing for

[41:37] y'all to discuss. Um, a fair question is what are your core government functions

[41:43] in terms of of what you want to do? Um, I can see both ways.

[41:47] » I do see both. >> I think a lot of it can also go into our

[41:50] strategic plan, looking at what we're going to put up for our strategic plan

[41:53] and then matching that to any donations that we make because there's just things

[41:57] as a city we can't do. Like the cat garage rescue, there's no way I'm going

[42:00] to go out there and neuter cat. There's just I'm not I don't have the time of my

[42:04] day. So, if we can partner with groups that are doing it well and doing it

[42:08] consistently and they're helping an issue in our city, I think we should

[42:12] support them in a small way. If we can, um, obviously we're not going to put the

[42:15] city out by doing it and it's something that we can't we can't put together a

[42:20] cat garage >> and I agree with that. But how do we how

[42:22] do we determine limits bills on wheels? This is our senior adults that we're

[42:26] feeding here. We give them $500, >> but we go here and give $2,500 this. How

[42:32] do we distinguish which is most important?

[42:34] » Right. That's why we're talking about it. Is there a limit that we should go

[42:37] to? Should we >> show partiality? I think a li setting a

[42:43] limit or setting an amount for each entity.

[42:47] » I would say like let's put like a budget. Let's put like a $5,000 donation

[42:51] to you and then doesn't matter who you donate. Whatever

[42:56] whoever you want to donate to, don't get no more than 500,000. That's set to

[43:00] y'all. whatever you want to set that, but 5,000 total and then 500,000 per

[43:05] whatever thing you choose to donate to. >> You're saying that way 5,000 and then we

[43:10] can give to 10 agencies inside of there and give them 500 each.

[43:14] » How whatever you decide to pick, but that way it's fair. That way nobody can

[43:18] come back and say, "Well, you donated this much here, you donate that much

[43:21] here." Then that way it's plain cut. Nobody can argue nothing.

[43:24] » I think you could do a couple things there. one is I I I do think you need to

[43:28] identify your goals and then prioritize them.

[43:32] » Um, for example, your cat thing and I'm completely in ignorant about all that.

[43:40] Um, how things work and stuff in terms of catching cats and feeding them and

[43:44] all that. But, um, if it impacts your areas where you may have visitors or

[43:49] tourism or business, that's one thing. Um, on the other hand, um, if you look

[43:55] at your health of your community, making certain that your, uh, fixed income

[43:59] people that are at home that can't feed themselves, that's also really important

[44:03] for community. So, those are the things that council will need to make a

[44:05] decision on, I think that's first, and then you determine how much money to do

[44:10] it. But, one way you can do it, um, if you get state um, and I'm sorry, that

[44:16] came out real spooky. Um if you get state monies for accommodations taxes

[44:20] and hospitality taxes um typically the way that works is people come in and

[44:25] they their nonprofit groups apply for it and they have to show a need um and that

[44:30] they're in in that situation they're required to show that they uh have so

[44:34] many people that they bring into the city for tourism and and events and that

[44:38] kind of thing. So I think you could set some parameters if you wanted nonprofits

[44:42] to you know at least apply. I mean some things are obvious. Meals on wheels is

[44:46] kind of an obvious I love them. So, but um let them apply and um you may be

[44:51] surprised at what groups need have needs um that may that may coincide with your

[44:57] goals in terms of what your priorities are. That's why it's on the agenda

[45:01] because I know there's probably groups in the area that we're not aware of

[45:05] right now that maybe we're not call

[45:09] application property test having a >> group of appointees that come and review

[45:14] that bring it back to full counsel you all meet a lot of neat people that you

[45:18] maybe haven't met before right >> um maybe not the people that are more

[45:22] politically motivated but are more service motivated

[45:26] » if if I can make a suggestion what if we labeled it as a grant instead of a

[45:30] donation. Kind of like the facade grant where they apply for it like Mary was

[45:34] saying and then it would come to council and council can yay or nay if they want

[45:38] to move forward or we could just do first come first served and have a

[45:42] deadline where we have committee. I would prefer me person I love the idea

[45:46] about I would prefer to have a once a year opening for applications give

[45:51] everybody the same because a lot of people like I said you advertise in the

[45:55] same place everybody knows where to go to when to go to what it is that's group

[45:59] of wherever the committee or whatever it is agree with your company makes that

[46:03] decision brings it to council and council

[46:06] so >> if you're going to do if you're going to

[46:09] budget >> like she's doing

[46:13] » is there any way we could budget for people to catch feral cats

[46:18] because feral cats are running all over the city and people are raising.

[46:21] » You all have a contract with animal control.

[46:23] » Animal control is not going to get them. >> They tell you to trap them and then once

[46:27] you trap them, they don't. So, who do we need to bring in to

[46:32] actually capture >> cat? She's about to do a liberty

[46:36] » cuz that fixes having babies, but >> the feral

[46:42] eliminations >> some counties you can contract like I

[46:45] know county contract with county to handle all in control stuff. But I don't

[46:49] think they'll do catch and release. I think they do catch and hold the car

[46:53] extern. They pick them up here and then take

[46:56] them out there and just turns them loose. See, I was told you had to buy

[46:59] your own cage and you had to catch them yourself and then they would come and

[47:03] mouse in my house. That's what I do. People I don't like to let them out at

[47:06] their house. I was going to say and you got feral cats.

[47:11] » I'm not going to say they're going to get all the cats, but they are doing a

[47:13] liberty project and she said >> because I can go by an address right now

[47:17] and there's 1500 kittens laying in a driveway

[47:20] » and there's 12 cats.

[47:24] » There's a cat problem on Burn Street. We were talking about the tree problem.

[47:28] Another person has come to me about that.

[47:31] » So I mean my thing is we do the right thing by spay and neutering to keep them

[47:35] from reproducing. But >> we got to do something about the feral

[47:39] cats that are killing people's squirrels and birds. People I get complaints all

[47:43] the time. People I'm a bird watcher and these cats are coming along. They're not

[47:47] even my cats. >> Read that they kill like billions of of

[47:50] song birds every year >> across the country. Nothing. And then

[47:53] you get people saying they want to shoot them and then they're not supposed to do

[47:56] that. So, you know, so what are we getting with that policy?

[48:00] » Well, I I think you've described two different things and and I guess one um

[48:04] uh at our next monthly meetings, we sit down and I'll come up with some

[48:10] stuff. >> So, you're talking 6,000

[48:12] » strategic plan.

[48:16] Okay. >> And then everybody, we can match our

[48:19] plans with what we come up with for this.

[48:22] » Okay. Yeah, >> but if you all have ideas about missions

[48:25] or goals that you're really interested in, I do like the sort of the grant

[48:29] model. Um because I do want people that have needs to come to council and then

[48:35] » you don't even know. >> I'd love to open it up at one time.

[48:40] Everybody put in my slow money down

[48:46] » and then I think you still put that whatever you determine you want to

[48:49] budget for. Is there something we could put on the city page to where they could

[48:53] fill out a form stating what >> just to see if they're even eligible?

[48:58] » Yep. The amount of people that didn't even know we'd have a facade grant was

[49:02] crazy. >> Typically facade grants have a they kind

[49:06] of a burst in the beginning and then they people stop, you know, because they

[49:09] don't want they when they realize they have to put in some work

[49:12] » and some money, they don't like it as much. So, I'm really glad that y'all got

[49:15] a couple of applications. So, yeah, that's kind of exciting.

[49:17] » Yep. Got two points. So, we gonna freeze that money until we figure out what

[49:20] we're doing with >> all the donations fund. Yeah, it'll

[49:24] it'll stay. We haven't done anything from it this year, but it was from last

[49:27] year. We did the cat garage rescue. That was last fiscal year.

[49:30] » I love it. I'll be there. >> Um, next up on the agenda is a

[49:36] discussion of potential revisions to the purchasing policy for quote requirements

[49:41] on purchases under 2500. And I have two department heads here. They're going to

[49:46] go ahead and lead this discussion. Vic Tedar and Josh Black.

[49:53] » Um, my recommendation is to remove the

[49:57] report requirement as well as the first state billing for purchases under

[50:02] $2,500. Um,

[50:09] right now it says that uh we're required to obtain three documented quotes from

[50:14] almost every budgeted purchase under $2,500.

[50:18] Understand that the intent is to ensure the responsibility and spending uh

[50:23] however creates large burden burdens and takes time away from our daily

[50:28] responsibilities. Our managers are responsible for

[50:32] overseeing operations, managing our employees, and providing services to the

[50:36] citizens while managing our budgets. Spending hours researching vendors,

[50:42] getting quotes, comparing similar products, and documenting this process

[50:47] take value of time away from all of us. In doing this, the city is still paying

[50:52] the employee salary while this research is being completed, which can offset any

[50:56] savings found um of the item that we're searching for.

[51:02] A lower price does not always mean the lowest overall cost. We have to look at

[51:06] location, availability, shipping, delivery time, and the employee time. an

[51:12] item is found cheaper in another location, you have to take into account

[51:16] additional time and fuel travel to pick it up. All these costs are still paid by

[51:22] the city. There are also situations where waiting

[51:27] on quotes is not practical. For example, one of my patrol gives failed uh

[51:33] windshield wiper. The priority should be getting it fixed or replaced and back in

[51:38] service for public safety. borrowing free quotes before purchasing a

[51:43] replacement could unnecessarily delay the repair and

[51:47] remove an officer from service. Additionally, quotes are not always for

[51:52] the exact same item. Other vendors provide similar products with different

[51:56] specifications and may [clears throat] not be the same name brand. This

[52:01] requires us to spend additional time researching whether the item will

[52:05] actually be our lease. Accountability can still m be maintained

[52:11] through budget approval which was passed by council. Purchase orders, receipts,

[52:16] invoices, and just good budget management. That's what it boils down to

[52:21] for all of us. Everybody here has a budget. all the department has in the

[52:25] budget and everything is associated by line item wherever they're coded every

[52:30] invoice that we provide um AP and

[52:39] so basically the goal of procurement process should be to ensure responsible

[52:44] use of taxpayer funds while allowing departments to operate efficiently. The

[52:49] current report requirement as well as the procurement and purchase

[52:52] [clears throat] loan for purchases under $2,500

[52:56] creates unnecessarily unnecessary delays increases administrative workload and

[53:03] may result in higher overall costs when employee time and operational impacts

[53:08] are consumed.

[53:11] Any questions? I had to buy white the other day. It's

[53:16] $14, but I had to get three.

[53:21] Do you want the department head to circumvent this and just go buy them

[53:24] because they're there and then go get the quotes? Cuz that's what's going to

[53:29] happen instead of just allowing us to do our jobs and go, "Listen, anything 2500

[53:35] or more should be brought to council." I agree with that. I don't I don't have

[53:39] any issue with that. But we're all adults here. we all have a copy of our

[53:44] budget and it's just good budget management. Now, if something is close

[53:49] to it and it's going to put us over the budget, then I think that we should

[53:52] discuss that with the mayor first um or the deputy administrator prior to

[53:57] bringing it to council because it would be going over what our line item is on

[54:02] that budget. And I can't I

[54:08] have to do anything 2500 prime example. I had to go

[54:12] buy some air filters for here. It was $11 and base. And so when we get it, we

[54:19] have to fill out a procurement form. Then we got to attach our reports to go

[54:24] with it. It literally takes us a lot of time. If I go get um a vote from a have

[54:32] a key mate, I have to get the report and that's a lot of time out of our day and

[54:36] we trying to do other things and get stuff prepared.

[54:41] So, I'm just saying we I'm begging that y'all could change just that part of

[54:45] anything under 25 to take this little paperwork because now I got to do a

[54:49] three post to get more paper. We spend more money on paper now. It's a it's

[54:53] it's in it's it's kind of crazy. Um I mean y'all y'all more than welcome to do

[54:58] it. I mean, look at it know. So, not we just buy like I got to buy paper towel,

[55:04] batteries, anything I have to buy, we have to get three quarts. Um, and it

[55:08] just takes time to labor. Yeah. Toilet paper. Like I had to get some toilet

[55:12] paper for here. And so I had to get I had to go online and try to find

[55:16] different places and see what section three and fix that part.

[55:21] » That's all I'm just asking for that point.

[55:24] » I'm sorry, but I I guess I'm dumb here, but I didn't realize that part of

[55:28] » section three. Section one said >> go to section three talking

[55:33] » very much. I almost section three. I think I had something too. But

[55:39] » I'm just fishing a lot for department heads. I mean, like I said, I had to go

[55:42] get something to to fix something. I'm like, "Okay, I got to go to Ace real

[55:46] quick, which we have an account with. It cost $3 and I got to go back to my

[55:50] office and then get three different shop local." I mean, we we try to because,

[55:54] you know, it's it's quick for us when we need something like, you know, we needed

[55:58] to get that that strip some TV instead of just like I had to get three quotes

[56:04] before we even get an ASAP on site. just a kind of for $30

[56:11] » and and I will say that that top form that they're talking about that was an

[56:15] internal process that was created to kind of help them stay on track with it

[56:19] because it the uh ordinance was new to all of us like I've you know talked to

[56:25] it was it wasn't enforced before. >> Yeah. I I'd like to make a motion too

[56:30] that we abolish this procurement policy program.

[56:34] » For one, it's not law. Two, it's not a state or it's not a city ordinance. It's

[56:38] just a simply a resolution that has no teeth in it. We actually got to have

[56:41] something by law. >> Here's the thing. Um the state statute

[56:45] says municipalities have to have either an ordinance or practice. So they are so

[56:54] » but it's simply a guideline though. You don't have

[56:56] » It's not a guideline. you have made it your council made it a policy and

[57:00] policies have to be followed. Um the reason for that was so that it could be

[57:06] tweaked to address things like chief as they applied it because before then I

[57:11] couldn't find that y'all ever had any procurement policy

[57:14] other than your budget maybe your budgeting each year but yes it is

[57:18] enforceable. It is something that employees and staff and department

[57:22] heads, everybody has to follow. Um because the state statute says ordinance

[57:28] or practices and practices are even weaker than policies.

[57:33] » So if it's a policy, it's important what's the ramification.

[57:37] » That would be a supervisor. Let's say yes.

[57:44] We'll we'll talk about last year we have somebody that split a bill specifically

[57:51] to get around this policy and it says no splitting of bills. We don't have a ra

[57:57] like you said it has no teeth. We have no ramification, no recourse. We can't

[58:01] go back and say >> it wasn't built into it originally.

[58:06] Yeah. No ramifications. See, ordinarily it's for big

[58:09] » saying that it was kind of it was put out there, but it's made to be adjusted

[58:14] as needed by council. So, I think that's what she's saying. That's true.

[58:17] » Maybe there's some adjustments. >> It what there wasn't anything before

[58:20] that that did it. Now, in terms of enforcement, a department head can

[58:24] counsel an employee for violating the policy. administration, um the mayor can

[58:29] counsel the department heads and and it filters down. If you felt like um

[58:34] somebody on staff, the deputy administrator or or maybe somebody in

[58:38] administration had violated, that will be up to council. But that's true of all

[58:42] your policies because not everything is is in an ordinance

[58:47] ramification to we don't have any recourse.

[58:50] » We have some but that's about it.

[58:55] » That's right. Now I think if they stole money or something go

[58:59] » I think so >> that's be violating the state statute at

[59:02] that point. So

[59:05] state >> if there's sped yeah but but otherwise

[59:10] it would be handled administratively because typically the people spending

[59:13] the money are going to be in your chain of command. um [clears throat] your

[59:18] administrator is going to come each month and report to you on finances. And

[59:22] so um hopefully that's you know always a truthful um thing depending on who your

[59:27] admin your deputy administrator or administrator is. But um yes there are

[59:31] the teeth are the normal teeth you have when you enforce policies. Chief has

[59:37] general orders. He enforces those policies. And so you could say each

[59:42] general order doesn't have a consequence, but she decides the

[59:46] consequences. Your consequences are in your employee

[59:50] handbooks in terms of, you know, I don't like progressive discipline so much

[59:55] because it seems to promise that you're going to get so many shots before you,

[59:59] you know, have the the final termination. But, um, typically your

[1:00:04] rules on attendance, I mean, that is a policy. typically um within your

[1:00:09] employee book. So yes, I mean that's that's true for all organizations, not

[1:00:14] just municipalities. >> So we've been under this policy for

[1:00:17] about a year and a half. >> I think it was put in place in January

[1:00:21] of 25. >> That sounds about right.

[1:00:22] » Um it sounds like we're ready to start making some revisions. I think that

[1:00:27] we've all lived under this. Well, I have lived under it for 9 months. Most of us

[1:00:31] have. Um some of us were under it longer based on when we came on to council. And

[1:00:35] I think we've all been under it for a period of time where we've kind of found

[1:00:38] what does work and what doesn't work. Um, and I think one of those things is

[1:00:42] the full requirements, which is what department heads are discussing. It's

[1:00:46] » everything else, huh? >> Does everything else work pretty

[1:00:49] decently? >> Um, I think that we definitely need, and

[1:00:53] we already talked about this previously where we talked about changing the 2500.

[1:00:57] That's a really tough thing to live under. Um, but I think the immediate

[1:01:01] issue is the department has spending so much time with the quote system. I think

[1:01:05] that's the immediate issue. >> Remove section three because because

[1:01:08] technically I'm reading about section one says that 25 is

[1:01:13] » and you know the bolt issue coach you mentioned just now honestly he's cross

[1:01:19] hardware and $2,500 in today's world is is not a lot of money. I think to say

[1:01:23] that I wish it was but it's not. >> I would recommend it. Hey, you know,

[1:01:28] let's let's let's eat the elephant one by a time. Let's take section three out.

[1:01:31] Let's fix their their immediate issue. Kind of get them going down the road to

[1:01:35] saving time, effort. We can remove section three completely. Operate under

[1:01:40] section one. Take that little verbiage out of section one. Said where it say

[1:01:44] refer to section three. If that makes sense.

[1:01:45] » What would what would make it more adaptable for your for your everyday

[1:01:50] daily business >> at town hall? any need for three quotes

[1:01:55] under 2500. >> What about I'm talking about like 2500.

[1:01:58] What would you what would you say it would have to go to in order to be

[1:02:02] » 5,000 for deputy administrator and then what 15,000 for administrator? trying to

[1:02:07] remember the the range truth. >> The immediate issue is the quotes there

[1:02:10] » and I I know we're, you know, getting to the point where eventually that might

[1:02:16] happen, but I know I've talked with uh the guys before and, you know, even just

[1:02:21] a little bit of even if we had a tier. So, if we say anything under 2500, we

[1:02:28] don't need three quotes. But maybe if we did 2500 to 4,000, 3,000, even 3,000, I

[1:02:35] think that would make their lives a lot easier. Um, while we're, you know,

[1:02:40] figuring out and adopting internally this policy, um, even just a $500 bump,

[1:02:45] I think, would help both of them. I think that there's a couple things you

[1:02:49] can do to control if you want to substitute something in for your clerks

[1:02:54] because if you don't have a policy, there are employees and I'm not saying

[1:02:59] our employees, but there are employees out in the world that would take

[1:03:02] advantage of it and go to their brother who supplies bulbs or whatever. So I

[1:03:06] think you can do you can have app approved suppliers you can have local u

[1:03:11] preference that was something we had talked about but they did not adopt the

[1:03:14] council did not adopt in that a government contract if the state has

[1:03:19] approved a a um a vendor as a government contract they've already gone through

[1:03:25] the court process to figure it out for example um [clears throat] you know I I

[1:03:31] don't know if most law enforcement agencies but really a lot of them go to

[1:03:34] Craigs and Colombia for firearms and sometimes

[1:03:39] ammunition too. Depends on the cost of ammunition. Um you can also have soul

[1:03:44] source. Let's say for example you're going to have I don't know how

[1:03:48] many hardware stores you have but you're going to have at least two. Um so that's

[1:03:53] something that um you may want to look at but you may want to say okay uh over

[1:03:57] time we've identified this this one place is generally have

[1:04:02] » uniforms. >> Yeah.

[1:04:04] » Yeah. Would it would it make it easier if you opened up a purchasing order

[1:04:09] account with these different agencies and put a certain amount of money in

[1:04:13] there? Once they get over that money, they can't do anything without having to

[1:04:17] go back through counseling. >> Well, let me tell you one abuse that can

[1:04:22] happen with with that system over um right off. I'm using it for personal.

[1:04:28] Well, no, they would have to have they would have gap, too.

[1:04:32] » Yeah. And they would have to have a receipt to turn that in. But you could

[1:04:34] put the amount of money into say O'Reillies or Ace or whatever. Put that

[1:04:40] a lot of money. >> Yeah.

[1:04:41] » We budget it every year. Put that money in there. When they need something, they

[1:04:45] go get it. But they have to show proof of where they purchased it.

[1:04:50] » You know, what it was for. And then it would be they the O'Reillies or ACE

[1:04:56] would send a bill >> right

[1:04:58] » or a document every month and show you what you've should do.

[1:05:04] » Yeah, we can do that. >> Yeah, you know, but but instead of

[1:05:07] having that money would already

[1:05:12] » I think the only thing that's really changed they've just been being forced

[1:05:16] to do three quotes and all the extra paperwork. They're doing everything that

[1:05:20] Jeff's saying. They've already been doing that. Now they're having to do

[1:05:23] three quotes. They're having to do all this extra and it's taking their time

[1:05:27] away from doing their daily job. So that just needs to be removed.

[1:05:30] » I say remove that out of section >> and make it 2500 or less. They're

[1:05:36] already going to turn in a receipt. They already have certain accounts that are

[1:05:38] going to build. They're already going to show you. It's already build. So like I

[1:05:41] have an overall account. If I go in there, I don't do anything. I tell them,

[1:05:44] "Hey, I'm buying this." They build it to me at the end of the month. employ.

[1:05:50] » So does counsel

[1:05:54] I'm sure Jeff has the same dream place certain places you go to

[1:05:59] » today we need to get this this part fixed but long term we need to look at

[1:06:02] everything >> okay

[1:06:03] » what a lot of places may be like this a lot of places on an

[1:06:08] annual they do their budget part of their budget process and reviewing the

[1:06:12] current policies and maybe you know right now

[1:06:17] It's the easiest thing. Three quotes is easy to fix. I mean, we remove that

[1:06:21] section. Give you guys the flexibility to move forward between now and the

[1:06:26] budget processing area. We get some reviews and bring some things back and

[1:06:29] look at those numbers and we see how things are moving and then we adjust

[1:06:32] those basic. So, how would how would council feel if

[1:06:37] they if if we was to bump section through and then add $1,500 to the 2500?

[1:06:42] » You know, right now for me, I think it's moving what we had to because of some of

[1:06:47] the things we've seen >> just because they're so tight on certain

[1:06:50] things. The 2500 is super last year for the end of I mean look, I

[1:06:56] want to say right now, but it is something that needs to happen. Uh last

[1:07:01] year I purchased our officers in rifle training. I had to purchase rifle

[1:07:07] ammunition, duty ammunition, pistol ammunition and it was more than $3,000.

[1:07:14] So I had to cut it back to 2400 change and lower that.

[1:07:20] » That's exactly what we don't want because

[1:07:22] » you just did exactly why we have this policy. Why didn't have a PO and then it

[1:07:27] would have been under state contract and did that. I did that because I needed

[1:07:33] ammunition for these officers. I needed duty ammunition for these officers. And

[1:07:39] in order to do that in court to be on last budget year, I had to do that or

[1:07:45] else I would have spent over $3,000 already July 1st. It would have had been

[1:07:50] brought to council because it was over $2,500 for one purchase. Now, I can get

[1:07:55] ammunition down the road. I didn't split anything. I [clears throat] just didn't

[1:08:01] get what I want. It's the same thing. If I go and buy two ballistic vests at at

[1:08:06] one time on one invoice, it's going to be probably over $2,500. So, am I going

[1:08:11] to have to bring that to council because I hired two officers and I needed two

[1:08:16] ballistic vest ahead of time for that. I mean, there's planned ahead of time.

[1:08:20] It's it's no more than 30 days in that period of time. I just hired an officer

[1:08:25] so fire hired an officer on the 30th. Got him fitted for a best on the 31st.

[1:08:32] That's not enough time to come to council and go. Okay.

[1:08:35] » I'm getting ready to hire another one >> and we wouldn't want to do a special

[1:08:38] session just to approve that. >> That's what I'm saying. Here's my

[1:08:42] question. Okay. So, we can put something in there for uniforms because I know me

[1:08:46] and coach have talked about that. You know, sometimes you get you don't how

[1:08:49] many kids you're going to get for like let's say fall sports. Let's say you get

[1:08:53] so many. You're only used to getting like, you know, having to spend $2,000

[1:08:56] for uniforms. Now you got a bunch of extra kids for some reason. Now you're

[1:09:00] over that and you got to get three quotes and all that. So, you know, maybe

[1:09:04] there is something where we put in there if there's a new hire or there's uh, you

[1:09:08] know, uniforms or whatever. There's a $5,000 limit.

[1:09:12] » You're saying increase the exemptions list?

[1:09:14] » Yeah. Like just make an exemption for like uniforms or if there's a new high

[1:09:17] or something like that, they need uniforms or if he needs ammunition. You

[1:09:21] can name the different things >> and then that's planning the false sport

[1:09:26] for you can get a rough rough estimate. you know how much it's going to cost per

[1:09:31] you can get the three quotes and you can say okay I'm gonna buy X number X number

[1:09:36] of them what's my quote you got the number from day

[1:09:40] » so I get 20 or I get >> but but the only thing I say about that

[1:09:43] is the only reason I disagree is because and I've bought a lot of uniforms

[1:09:49] they will never get it on time they can tell you hey I'm going to you you got

[1:09:53] 100 kids we're gonna have it next week and I guarantee you it'll be two weeks

[1:09:56] behind they do it to me every single the time it drives it off. So, it's just

[1:10:01] like transport. Okay. When I buy a truck,

[1:10:03] » explain it. That's all you do. I think it gives you the option to explain them

[1:10:07] to >> But but what I'm saying though is is you

[1:10:09] don't you're relying on somebody else to meet your standard. So, if he goes out

[1:10:13] here, he already knows. I'm I'm assuming I'm going to have 100 kids. He starts

[1:10:17] working on three quotes. And let's say the first one is the middle line. He

[1:10:22] picks it. He goes with it. And then they they don't get it in time. Now, you got

[1:10:26] kids that don't have any shirts. They don't have jerseys and all that. So,

[1:10:29] normally when you start making relationship with somebody, you just

[1:10:31] start using that person. I'm not saying that's the best policy, but normally you

[1:10:35] do. And again, if you have to get three quotes, that takes more time. You're

[1:10:39] having to call this person, get them to give you a quote and this when it's

[1:10:43] simple. You start building relationship. Like if I have a relationship with a

[1:10:46] transporter getting a car to me, I know that they have done it time after time.

[1:10:51] They've been right on or close time. They might be a day or two late. I might

[1:10:54] go over here and get a little bit cheaper with this guy, but nine times

[1:10:57] out of 10, they screw me over and it's two or three days late. So, all I'm

[1:11:01] saying is is they've got some relationships built with some of these

[1:11:03] people. And basically what they're saying is is give a little leeway with

[1:11:08] them because they had these relationships. They start having to go

[1:11:10] get three quotes. That's just taking in their time and then they're going to be

[1:11:14] worried about not getting what they need in time. Happens when it's in

[1:11:17] government. Let me let me go a few other yearnings. One is um and this won't work

[1:11:24] for specialized things that your departments need like every department's

[1:11:28] not going to need ammunition >> but you are going to have a lot of

[1:11:31] products that every department buys and one problem by if you have decentralized

[1:11:36] purchasing for common products is Gary's department may pay 25 cents per

[1:11:43] paper coach may pay 30 cents chief may pay 45 cents So, if you have

[1:11:51] centralized purchasing of the the common items that you know you're going to

[1:11:54] need, paper towels, cleaning supplies, paper, toner, I mean, those kinds of

[1:11:59] things, you can control the price of that and you can get the quotes, you

[1:12:04] know, and and it may take a year for you all to track that to know what you're

[1:12:08] going to need that every department needs. Now, the specialized things, the

[1:12:12] more detailed the department heads can make their budgets will help you because

[1:12:16] if you approve an item, say for example, coach says we're going to need, you

[1:12:22] know, new basketballs and he puts that line item in the budget

[1:12:26] and it's approved for a particular price, then he knows what his range is

[1:12:30] that you can spend for that. And that's another way of not having to do, you

[1:12:34] know, specific quotes for items. If it's in a specific line item in your budget,

[1:12:38] then council has approved it. Um, and then it's just up to the

[1:12:42] department has to do a good job in terms of maximizing their use of those line

[1:12:46] items. We >> tried to do this general purchasing

[1:12:49] budget process. We actually had it in the administration budget and then we

[1:12:54] split it back out and we put it in the department. So, we took that idea that

[1:12:58] you just had. I think it's better centralized um because you have a better

[1:13:03] grip of of what's going on in terms of prices and that what that avoids that

[1:13:07] problem of having to go out and get quotes every time because if you've

[1:13:10] already identified who your low low vendor is then let's say chief comes in

[1:13:15] and says I don't know our bathrooms need more toilet paper then the administrator

[1:13:21] or deputy administrator knows where to go and get that and you've already

[1:13:25] worked out or you've already got like you said you've already got the quotes

[1:13:27] for that that product and What do [clears throat] you mean

[1:13:30] I'm just I'm just curious. So the biggest issue that we get each other and

[1:13:35] I understand what you're saying. I try you try to guesstimate

[1:13:39] when you deal with people numbers. It's a whole different ball and y'all. So

[1:13:44] when we got children that like last year we hadund and something kids play this

[1:13:49] year I got a few hundred kids playing. I cannot estimate the the growth is

[1:13:53] dramatic. So we base everything off of the numbers and of course the uniforms

[1:13:58] that we give kids in. And so typically our tournament is four weeks for us cuz

[1:14:04] nowadays everybody is custom made. They're not like it was in the old days

[1:14:07] when you wear a t-shirt and snap something on. [clears throat] So

[1:14:11] everything's custom made. It's coming from China. everything they can do. One

[1:14:16] thing that that um I learned that we can do is do an agreement with for vendors

[1:14:21] that has a set rate. Um that's one thing I would like for us to try to look into

[1:14:26] doing it that way because right now I think my cheer for is going to be over

[1:14:32] over 5 grand because I got 91. Sorry. You know that that's that's I

[1:14:38] know it's going to go 5.5,000 probably $20. I just asked for the vendors in

[1:14:43] Sydney saying that and we play in two weeks. Um they we start with two and

[1:14:50] two. >> Go for that. You have two vendors,

[1:14:52] right? Varsity and somebody else. >> Yeah. Everybody's always nice. I don't

[1:14:57] like the ice. We want to we want someone who can just give us some some nice

[1:15:02] quality local charity and then you know things like that. So that's what I'm

[1:15:07] always looking for the best rate for everything. So uh yeah like what we said

[1:15:14] just you got to be flexible because you basically everything

[1:15:19] I try to do that it's hard what happened but I would be I can be under or maybe

[1:15:25] over and then I got a surplus of material that I don't need and I just

[1:15:29] got it sitting in my back for years that we don't we're not going to be able to

[1:15:34] use. Here's the other thing I'm gonna touch on too because you got to think

[1:15:37] something that's a little new because I don't think that Chief or Josh or

[1:15:42] anybody else was really in the budget process ever before up until this time.

[1:15:46] So, they're really just now starting to really work on what they're going to

[1:15:49] need for ne for next year and kind of learning that process. So, we got to

[1:15:53] give them a little room to understand what they're going to be doing. And once

[1:15:56] we give them a year, two years under their belt, you won't have this issue

[1:16:00] because they're already going to know, hey, I already know exactly I'm going to

[1:16:03] go for this or whatever. and they'll have a better round of things of what

[1:16:06] they're doing. But right now, it's all fairly new to what they're trying to do

[1:16:09] and they're trying to figure out because Sierra and Katie, they already have

[1:16:13] experience with who they're using, who we're going to rent a tent from and

[1:16:16] stuff because they've been doing it. These guys haven't been doing it. So,

[1:16:19] yeah, they've been working with companies, but it hadn't been the same

[1:16:22] as they're having to budget and so forth. So, that's the only thing like we

[1:16:25] got to give him a little bit of leeway there on that side. And the other thing,

[1:16:29] like he did touch on is he's dealing with people. You might have 40 people

[1:16:32] sign up. 30 of them pay. You still got 10 extra kids technically signed up, but

[1:16:37] they haven't paid yet. You don't know if they're going to pay or not. And then

[1:16:40] once that deadline passes, they might not pay until two weeks later. Well, I

[1:16:44] got my money now. I'm going to pay. You can't turn them kids down, man. They got

[1:16:47] the money. You going to let them play. So now you got to go order, make another

[1:16:50] order to get some more jerseys in because now those actually did come.

[1:16:53] » I think that that's the problem. I think the the whole process is up front. Where

[1:16:58] are you going to get your uniforms from? And if you need five more, that's not

[1:17:02] the problem. It's how do you get the madness, right? Right.

[1:17:05] » Or you get you get the folks and you get the price. You look at that.

[1:17:10] » Yeah. >> But if you do the increase

[1:17:13] » they want to go second.

[1:17:17] I'm just saying if you do this for a buffer situations like that

[1:17:22] » I think I would like so one thing I would almost give you guys x amount of

[1:17:27] dollars a month >> let you draw out of it

[1:17:31] » that's what I was saying >> that's what you have to say there

[1:17:34] » each each department would get a lot amount of money and then it's up to them

[1:17:38] to manage >> their own amount and then when they

[1:17:42] start running low then they know okay I'm uh might slow down.

[1:17:48] » What I say about >> but I think we need to

[1:17:51] » but I think we need to >> have a little bit of time to get

[1:17:55] everything according to the line when the budget will be submitted.

[1:18:00] My my thing is I want you to consider just increasing it from the same

[1:18:06] right now. The biggest thing right now is the form because anything

[1:18:13] » you can prepare for something unexpected double work00

[1:18:21] grand 5,000 last month in that

[1:18:25] » way we could do four grand for >> the thing is Josh and I did just

[1:18:32] » because council and the former mayor former council former mayor They didn't

[1:18:37] abide and we didn't know anything about it

[1:18:40] until you all brought it up. And now that it was brought up, now the the

[1:18:45] mayor and and the deputy administrator and council, you know, is on board with

[1:18:50] trying to follow our guidelines and follow our ordinances, but we're the

[1:18:56] ones doing what's in the ordinances. And that's why we're just trying to bring it

[1:19:01] to your attention to go, this is not working for us. specific reason why we

[1:19:06] would like to check >> and like Mary said it was always put in

[1:19:09] place to be adjusted as we found things that didn't work. So this clearly

[1:19:14] doesn't work for us the 2500 quotes. So I think

[1:19:18] » we do have to have for it to meet um state standards the the general

[1:19:24] requirement and it's not very explanatory if you look at the state

[1:19:27] procurement codes or state agencies and they're like yay big but it has there

[1:19:31] has to be some competitive process. So I think you do that at the front end and

[1:19:36] then you know if if coach finds that one vendor is always um has the the quality

[1:19:41] that meets the standards and is the cheaper one um then that's where you

[1:19:46] start. Um but you have to have some competitive process.

[1:19:49] » So then Monday can you bring some amendments to our current policy that we

[1:19:53] can discuss right now and she'll said she'll say the fullction.

[1:19:59] » Can you son his ass? I will see what I can do this week

[1:20:04] » in the in the packet. >> Yes.

[1:20:07] » Monday night, I'd love to see it before Monday night at 6.

[1:20:12] » Penny sales tax. >> Quick question.

[1:20:14] » Yes, sir. >> If we had I know we've been talking

[1:20:17] about committees, right? And if we had a committee, is that something that would

[1:20:20] kind of help with this process? If you had a committee where like again like if

[1:20:25] there was an issue with uniforms and he had he could go to the committee and

[1:20:29] basically they could approve it and then bring back a council and say hey he had

[1:20:32] an emergency had an extra you know he budgeted for 100 kids and ended up being

[1:20:36] 300 >> and he had to go over it.

[1:20:38] » Yeah. >> That's where I think we get you know I

[1:20:40] mean it's not just a wreck. I mean it's several different committees that I feel

[1:20:44] like we need >> finance committee

[1:20:46] » of sorts have finance committees but they don't typically approve things.

[1:20:50] They make a memorial. >> Would you approve $4,000 per department

[1:20:56] and eliminate section three? >> If you'd asked me an hour ago, I

[1:20:59] probably said no. But listen, >> I can

[1:21:04] » and that's why we wanted to bring the department heads in. They've lived it

[1:21:06] for the last couple of weeks, months. It's hard and it's

[1:21:10] » anything over for it would have to come through here.

[1:21:15] » Have to come before council and council >> really came alive.

[1:21:21] just to relieve them from the stress of

[1:21:26] » purchase really fast. We do know that going forward it's not going to happen

[1:21:29] again. >> We'll feel more comfortable. We want to

[1:21:32] make sure that we know >> that's why we're kind of leading with

[1:21:34] this and we'll make small changes as we need to over time.

[1:21:37] » I can deliver that. I mean, I'll be honest.

[1:21:38] » I'll see if I can come up with everybody's

[1:21:42] » back off to make it. If you need it, bring it, get it, get it for everybody

[1:21:48] and get it. If >> you need it, you need it. You should

[1:21:53] » And I think in in the department head's defense, I think uh like like those

[1:21:58] stated in the past, they didn't see their budget. They didn't know what they

[1:22:01] had in their budget before we sat down with them, pulled it up in my office.

[1:22:06] You know, we they didn't know they had overtime budgeted for. They didn't know

[1:22:10] they had part-time uh employees budgeted for. So they saw that they had two

[1:22:15] months and they kind of panicked. >> Yeah,

[1:22:17] » we kind of failed them on that. So [clears throat]

[1:22:20] » yeah. >> All right. Well, good. I'm glad we're

[1:22:23] working through that part of it. Um

[1:22:31] » yeah, on the old council under the old mayor. So yeah, we'll keep hearing that.

[1:22:36] » I'm not saying what we were doing. >> No, I I'm not saying that.

[1:22:40] » All right. Next agenda item. um is the second discussion on the zoting

[1:22:45] ordinance for 2526 and Jennifer Visage is here to kind of walk us through what

[1:22:50] changes were made. We would like to get a final vote on this um in the meeting

[1:22:56] next week, but I know there were some questions from some members of council.

[1:23:00] So, um I will let her go ahead and start this conversation.

[1:23:04] » Is there any questions y'all want to ask me? Nothing has changed since the last

[1:23:08] time we talked. I mean, still this planning commission is done. So any want

[1:23:13] me to point out again is there other questions that anybody has.

[1:23:19] » John, I thought you had a question on the zoning. You had made the request to

[1:23:23] have it on the work session. >> The refreshment of what is currently

[1:23:27] zoned as >> we're talking about property on Camp

[1:23:31] Rogers. >> Oh, that's

[1:23:33] the zoning. >> You're fine. You're fine.

[1:23:37] » Sorry. You're fine. Oh, I'm Yeah. If I'm senator, [laughter]

[1:23:44] um, if I'm correct, I think we made adjustments um, originally from the

[1:23:48] previous one on accessory dwellings, trans living quarters, poor commercial

[1:23:52] regulations, poor commercial residential, political signs, minimum

[1:23:56] square footage, tiny homes and development, business owners as board

[1:23:59] members, Arby's is temporary storage, RV parks, and metal buildings. I think that

[1:24:03] was the full list of we didn't we didn't do that.

[1:24:07] » Okay.

[1:24:12] You had a question. >> Yeah. Go ahead.

[1:24:14] » Well, I had um someone come to me that was spoke as well at the

[1:24:21] » Okay. >> about the fence about access.

[1:24:30] » No, you're fine. You're fine. Stop. You're good. [laughter]

[1:24:35] You're okay. You're sick. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry.

[1:24:37] » No, you're fine. Go ahead. Well, anyways, his his concerns were the

[1:24:42] limitations that because I think that entire section was added since it wasn't

[1:24:46] existing. >> So, his concern was that we haven't

[1:24:49] needed up to this point and he didn't understand things that other

[1:24:53] municipalities if it wasn't a concern. >> Um, I think I talked to him. What does

[1:25:00] this >> across from the post office?

[1:25:03] Yeah, I've talked to them and I told them because were they the ones that

[1:25:07] were concerned about it was already there and I had told them they were

[1:25:11] grandfathered in that would never ever do anything to what was there?

[1:25:16] » Yeah. Really? >> Yeah. Like I mean I can't think of it

[1:25:19] down >> because one already exists

[1:25:22] » about living. We have some The reason that this came

[1:25:26] up in the planning commission was when I was in the planning commission, we had

[1:25:29] some issues inside the city with people in

[1:25:34] » sheds that

[1:25:36] » they don't meet building code. They don't and that

[1:25:39] » so they're going to be grandfathered in. >> No, no, no. The one [clears throat] they

[1:25:42] have is a um >> it's a regular garage.

[1:25:45] » A regular garage with an apartment. I'm talking about

[1:25:47] » what makes them grandfathered. Well, they're first of all, they're meeting

[1:25:50] the regulations that >> but his grandfather basically not

[1:25:53] according to the regulations. >> He was concerned that we were going to

[1:25:56] make him change anything. And if he's already there, I'm not going to cuz I

[1:26:01] think I don't remember what this pro what was it. Was it bigger than what it

[1:26:05] was? >> Well, grandfather, we can't even touch

[1:26:08] him.

[1:26:11] » We can't touch him. >> It's already I can't. So those people in

[1:26:15] medical sheds are still grandfather because our current ordinance doesn't

[1:26:20] » such and then Alen's wife I think her concern wasn't just for them but they

[1:26:24] were concerned for other people that would want to buy accessory dwelling

[1:26:28] units to convert for family. Yes. you know,

[1:26:31] » yeah, in these hard times and you know, and they can do that according to what

[1:26:35] the regulations state, they can do that. They can get a an apartment or a what

[1:26:41] say accessory unit. Um, that is code. >> Yeah. Code a shed is not you're not

[1:26:47] going to bring a shed and live in a shed because

[1:26:51] » I'm just telling you. >> Well, let me

[1:26:55] » Jennifer, give me a second. I'll jump in on ahead. I don't like the term

[1:26:59] grandfathering because it does imply that anything and everything that he say

[1:27:01] has right now can't be touched. Building codes and uh do IBMC

[1:27:08] the international property maintenance. Okay.

[1:27:11] » Buildings have to be habitable. >> Yes. If they don't have electricity,

[1:27:14] they don't have water, they don't have sewer,

[1:27:17] » they don't have some sanitation that not then you can't live in them. So you can

[1:27:22] enforce things that are not habitable. and I define long.

[1:27:25] » So the question is do we need to add this section if there's an ad?

[1:27:29] » No, let's go back to your AD basically things that exist now that are habitable

[1:27:35] and meet building codes in terms of um life safety factors. Um they're

[1:27:41] nonconforming. Your goal of zoning and this is required

[1:27:44] by state law is to when you have a zone and it has standards is to bring the

[1:27:50] non-conforming things in eventually into your conformity so that your your zone

[1:27:55] is more compatible because you don't want like a pig farm next door to I

[1:28:01] don't know if you have a fancy neighborhood or not fancy fancy houses.

[1:28:04] Um, but if you stop pig farming, and I I don't know, I don't know if

[1:28:10] y'all addressed this in there. Typically, you're non-conforming. If it

[1:28:13] exists for a certain period of time, you can't go back

[1:28:16] » and put in a new pick at that same location, even though that place was an

[1:28:21] existing new setting or same with houses or people living in sheds. if they're

[1:28:27] habitable now and they don't meet the square footage or they don't meet the

[1:28:31] location or buffer or whatever you have that apply to ADUs access excess

[1:28:38] accessory dwelling units um they're non-conforming now but if somebody moves

[1:28:43] out and they don't use it for that use basically you're looking at use zoning

[1:28:48] then they lose that non-conforming status and for anybody to move in it has

[1:28:53] to come be brought up to your conforming status Yes. If you have a fire or the um

[1:28:58] you tear down the the shed or whatever they're building in again that you lose

[1:29:04] that use, you have to go to the new director.

[1:29:07] » So the principal is like it seems like if it's not there, it's not allowed. But

[1:29:12] if it's your job to kind of state it's allowed,

[1:29:15] » right? And that's what that's what Jeff's done with the is is set forth.

[1:29:19] Basically, [clears throat] >> zoning doesn't necessarily tell you you

[1:29:25] can't do things. It teaches you how to do things legally in your zone. So,

[1:29:31] things that um excess I'm not saying that living in a shed was legal

[1:29:35] beforehand, but this makes it legal as long as you meet those requirements. And

[1:29:39] it's the same thing with um uh people's short-term rental ordinances. Short-term

[1:29:45] rentals may not be allowed under your zoning in your particular zoning area,

[1:29:49] but the ordinance setting forth the requirements for short-term rentals

[1:29:52] makes it a legal use where council decides.

[1:29:55] » I would just say we need to be careful on square footages and those

[1:29:58] limitations. You know, that's what I think Mr. Carol's concerns were putting

[1:30:03] those limitations. >> If I remember correct, Jenn was put in

[1:30:05] place. There's a uh there's some individuals living in a those little

[1:30:10] $1019 buildings here that's put in place. Now,

[1:30:15] if I'm hearing you right, we added something to eliminate something that we

[1:30:19] didn't have to add to eliminate because it's it's

[1:30:22] » it's actually it's it's already legal for them to be there in the first place.

[1:30:26] » But did I say that right? >> The risk would be let's say you're in

[1:30:29] just an ordinary residential zone and your neighbor puts up an aid of you

[1:30:33] right on the property line. So when you look out over to your kitchen sink,

[1:30:36] you're looking into someone else's, you know, grandmother suite or something. I

[1:30:41] mean, you you part of that having requirements, whether it's a buffer or a

[1:30:46] location or if you don't have any rules, why not put six ADUs on your property

[1:30:52] and rent them out? Um, it protects the other properties that surround your your

[1:30:59] um property. Um, and that's I I'll give you an example. And this happened in the

[1:31:03] town of IVA. The guy they didn't have rules on ADUs and a guy bought those um

[1:31:08] I don't know if they're rubber made or somewhere, but you snap them together

[1:31:11] and they make sh. And he was renting out I don't mean like three, I mean like 10

[1:31:16] or 12 of them to people um because they didn't have a rule that controlled what

[1:31:21] AD used to, you know, just the minimum requirements for ADUs. Um because it's

[1:31:27] really not fair if I have a house and I buy a house in whatever your top

[1:31:31] residential zone is R10 R10 and I I I meet the requirements

[1:31:38] in the zone and I build a a nice house my my forever house or something which

[1:31:42] is getting shorter and shorter by the way but um let's say I have my forever

[1:31:46] house there and the next door neighbor sets a a field in a you know of a news

[1:31:52] next door then I kind of you know that kind of destroys or something for that

[1:31:56] son um for your your top residential unit. So that's what be it to make it

[1:32:01] legal if you meet those requirements and you you can have your your family live

[1:32:06] in it or like a a suite or your grandmother. Yeah. You

[1:32:11] know, I think y'all will all agree not to fe

[1:32:20] » I think you can have rentals in in other zones for

[1:32:27] just not you know your primary but I would think for them they need more

[1:32:31] buildings. Let me ask you a question. So a piece of land in the city

[1:32:36] that would beow

[1:32:45] to >> we took that out. So that I mean I see

[1:32:49] that all the time. So you say lower. >> Yes. Exactly.

[1:32:54] » Yeah. Well, I'm not talking about rent, but

[1:32:57] even just placing there storage like if you're moving to one.

[1:33:04] » Well, you're I mean, you're talking about lots. You said RT.

[1:33:07] » Uh, y'all go by numbers. So, are they 10,000 foot lots? Okay.

[1:33:13] » 10,000 foot lots is not a big So, >> so that you may have properties that are

[1:33:19] larger in terms of agriculture and stuff like that. That will be a different

[1:33:23] property. And I don't know if there's like additional uses um for

[1:33:28] additional aven use in larger properties like that. No, there's not. But that

[1:33:32] would be something that K could talk about, but in a 10,000 spot, it would be

[1:33:36] very tight, >> particularly with y'all having a lot of

[1:33:42] topography issues and severity. At least the ones I've been around, you know,

[1:33:46] where it's maybe real steep, maybe the back of the lot falls off and you don't

[1:33:49] have much building. In the town of Central, they only allow them in our

[1:33:53] 20s. Y'all don't have 20. So, if you don't have at least 20,000 square feet

[1:33:58] land, you don't get your name. So, >> because a lot of it has to do with those

[1:34:04] slots are so small, you don't have to get all that on there,

[1:34:08] » right? Are you okay? >> So, it was neighborhood commercials.

[1:34:15] » Yes. was their issue as neighborhood commercial

[1:34:18] » and I had told them that they were fined because they were I don't want to use

[1:34:22] this grandfather because they are resus

[1:34:27] they're fine >> what did we end up doing with the um

[1:34:32] residents on the first floor in our downtown commercial

[1:34:37] » um so we are going to allow it um that's what's written in here is you can allow

[1:34:44] it but They can have to have their own entrance, their own parking spot, and it

[1:34:49] has to be on the back of the building. They cannot have an entrance on the

[1:34:53] front on like Main Street, Palmer Street, whatever, Palmer Street. Um, and

[1:34:58] it cannot change the square footage of the of the existing building. You can't

[1:35:03] reduce the retail square. >> No, upstairs.

[1:35:08] » Upstairs was fine. It was downstairs

[1:35:14] can't change the square footage of the >> the commercial.

[1:35:19] » How I think it's written if I remember right is it's just can't change can't

[1:35:24] add anymore to the building. Not the

[1:35:27] » can't add to the building. >> You have to use what's there.

[1:35:31] » But you can have residential downtown. >> The only thing that I would Yeah.

[1:35:36] There's only a few spaces that even work.

[1:35:38] » Yes, it can do it. somebody's rolling in right now.

[1:35:44] » People already watching Christmas dinner.

[1:35:49] [laughter] >> They never invited us in.

[1:35:52] » You can see that. >> It's kind of like one of those living,

[1:36:00] but it continues on. I think so. >> It's not performing until the use

[1:36:09] » think so. Looks like having a minute. >> Are you basically rental for that?

[1:36:14] » If we add the agenda for next Monday, are we good to we're all good? Okay.

[1:36:20] » Rental for that second floor. >> Nothing changed.

[1:36:25] It's two >> still the same thing.

[1:36:30] » They can come sign up for public share that agenda once it out

[1:36:37] » even though there were some

[1:36:44] » you can share the link >> and it'll be in the packet.

[1:36:48] » Thank you. >> All right. Last Oh, go ahead.

[1:36:50] » No, I was just I believe it's under March 23rd.

[1:36:53] » Yes. Thank you. >> Last item on the agenda is the

[1:36:57] discussion of reasonzoning of Camp Rogers Road and that is also

[1:37:00] » you had a question. >> Oh, sorry.

[1:37:03] » Um yeah, what what is it solved at? 500 and they want 501 which is the next

[1:37:11] month down for a little bit smaller um block houses or

[1:37:16] » Oh, yeah. They're going to put cookie cutter houses in there.

[1:37:20] » I have no idea. They don't know their builder yet, but yeah, I would assume

[1:37:23] so. >> It's definitely moving to a more dense

[1:37:26] building. >> Yes, more dense.

[1:37:29] » So, how many more houses are you want? >> 30.

[1:37:32] » You have to remember too, just take this into consideration. This is directly

[1:37:36] across the road from the area that was reszoned last year for 140 town houses.

[1:37:42] » Directly across against it.

[1:37:45] » Does that concern you with our shoe capacity? It doesn't concern. Yeah,

[1:37:49] » you're talking about you're talking about 140 town houses and

[1:37:55] this is just me where we're driving down the road and we

[1:38:01] be saying let's change this. We don't have to go through and plan. We

[1:38:06] got sewer capacity to consider. We got roads that we only have $500

[1:38:11] » water infrastructure. We need to know those costs before we start changing

[1:38:16] anything to increase in my opinion. You know,

[1:38:19] » I would agree. I I mean >> I think we don't discussions

[1:38:26] overload.

[1:38:31] » I vote against it. >> I personally would like to see them

[1:38:33] actually start the development of 140 before consider anything else. I was

[1:38:39] asked at planning commission and they said that

[1:38:43] unfortunately the market is not there right now for those town homes. So

[1:38:48] » and then didn't do anything. >> They're going to still do it. They're

[1:38:51] saying they're still going to do it. >> See if they'll pivot and make the

[1:38:54] townhouse area nothing else.

[1:38:57] » So they basically want to get that property to where nobody else can come

[1:39:02] in and take that property.

[1:39:08] all the way over to Highway 93. Oh yeah, it connects to that.

[1:39:16] You imagine the school fire and all the people are in there trying to get across

[1:39:19] the school drive and all that. >> There's one on that.

[1:39:27] He wants the next one.

[1:39:36] » Yes, ma'am. >> And who wants um

[1:39:41] » section?

[1:39:44] » Okay. How long is your vested rights? Because if they don't build now,

[1:39:48] » when does the right to build expire? >> I don't know. I don't know why. That

[1:39:51] would give them what happens is like

[1:39:58] » right >> is there a time limit on when they have

[1:40:02] to break that >> that's what I was looking

[1:40:07] » for

[1:40:17] actually I don't understand

[1:40:21] » yeah So, >> and then they went back

[1:40:26] to >> then it went bankrupt and it

[1:40:32] » was that later we got like come back to it.

[1:40:37] We would need to do public. Yeah. Okay. So, we get out of the plan

[1:40:43] that would be good. Basically what happens is you set a limited time they

[1:40:48] have the right for their approvals and once those approvals expire they have to

[1:40:52] come back and start the process over. >> It keeps people from saying okay I've

[1:40:57] got a letter that says I've got sort of capacity but this person over here wants

[1:41:01] to develop their land and they're ready to to break around now.

[1:41:09] There's a lot of houses out there. And if that super capacity is sitting

[1:41:14] there being eaten up by those people that it's not nothing's going on

[1:41:18] » that's when they decide to we're going to be in trouble.

[1:41:24] » That's property. >> Yeah. I go on. That's just me.

[1:41:33] citizen rid

[1:41:41] [laughter]

[1:41:47] » I mean can you imagine the traffic >> yeah if you think each townhouse would

[1:41:51] have two cars so you're at like what 280 cars

[1:41:55] » plus buses plus 30 >> on top of the what they've already to

[1:41:59] develop. So I mean you think long term we need to have a plan

[1:42:03] » and a vision and a >> Yep. Agreed. Strategic plan August 29th.

[1:42:08] » I'll figure out well actually [laughter]

[1:42:11] » we've had it in the plan forever. >> Well give us some notes at least

[1:42:18] » WhatsApp. All right. It is 8:12. Do I have I'm going to make a motion to

[1:42:23] adjurnn. Do I have a second?

[1:42:28] All in favor >> is teaching.

[1:42:32] » Yeah, >> by the way,

[1:42:40] » this is the property.

[1:42:44] Put a

08 04 2026 Special Called Session Followed by Work Session

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