[0:32] Mr. President, please let me know if you have any questions.

[1:47] That's the thing, when the audio came in, hear me?

[1:51] Yes.

[1:53] Thanks, Margaret.

[1:55] You're welcome.

[4:59] Good evening, everybody.

[5:06] I should have all of my audio shut off right now.

[5:09] Okay.

[5:10] Recording in progress.

[5:12] All right.

[5:12] Now we've got the recording going.

[5:13] Good morning. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the September 21, 2021-26 edition of the Manchester

[5:20] Connecticut Planning and Zoning Commission.

[5:24] We have a fairly hefty agenda in front of us today,

[5:27] so I will get this show on the road. We are at account of eight members, either online or in the room

[5:37] tonight. So online, I have Arianna Larson as a full member, and then I have three alternatives

[5:46] who will all three be seated this evening. I have Margaret Brewer, Malia, Asson, and Sarah

[5:53] Van Buren. In the room with us tonight is to my right to the left to the right is Mr.

[6:06] I'm going to back to Andy Kid.

[6:09] That's what the type of day has been.

[6:11] To my right is Patrick Kennedy.

[6:15] My name is Michael Stevie on the chair.

[6:17] And to my left is, she's my brain.

[6:21] That's really dying.

[6:22] Theresa Ike.

[6:24] So all this is going to be on the exam.

[6:26] No, no.

[6:28] I haven't stopped yet today.

[6:29] been going since like seven o'clock this morning, and driving home with a learner's permit

[6:35] child from and field at five o'clock tonight was was a lot of fun. She's actually really

[6:45] really good. The problem is that I needed to pay attention to those to on the subcommittee meeting

[6:50] for the zoning rags on the ways, so it was a lot of fun. Anyway, tonight we have three public hearings

[6:59] So, we have eight online.

[7:08] Is there any mic online for us?

[7:12] Let's do a quick check.

[7:19] Thanks for the tech check.

[7:35] No, at least the second time though, I might be able to get it without messing up.

[7:41] Okay, so very quickly, because did the recording get the beginning of that? Do you think or no?

[7:54] Okay, so my legal side is taken care of. I just didn't know if I needed to read everything again.

[8:02] Good, because I'm going to mess up names again tonight.

[8:05] Point of order is that Claire who's sitting tonight to everybody here. Yes, I'm going to make clear to the people online. I have

[8:13] Online it permanent members are young and then three alternates all three of which will be seated tonight

[8:19] That would be Margaret Brewer, Melia us on Sarah Vembeurin and then the four permanent members who are sitting in the room with us tonight

[8:29] Okay

[8:31] Like that. We have a list of public hearings. First public hearing for the

[8:35] night is for Cedar Ridge Development LLC. This is inland wetlands permit 352026.

[8:44] If the no secretary is not in, so if Mr. Kennedy, if you could read the public notice

[8:48] for that first hearing, please.

[8:51] Cedar Ridge Development LLC in Linwettland's permit, 35-2026,

[8:59] importing fill, and grading within the 100 foot up in the renewed area,

[9:04] 85 rock bridge walls, events, clusters own and importing fill,

[9:09] grading in construction of a foundation for a single family home,

[9:14] and death within the 100 foot up on the de-area at 95 rock bridge,

[9:25] in the building tonight or is everybody online?

[9:32] Yes, this is a big need to sign in the room.

[9:38] Engine air for GF instruction.

[9:46] You see that spring night is pulled up?

[9:49] Not yet.

[10:13] It's coming.

[10:14] Okay.

[10:15] Now I've got it.

[10:17] Okay.

[10:19] So, thanks to the last last month we're here, I don't know if you get me to go right

[10:30] here.

[10:30] Issue with the slope along the back of these lots here.

[10:37] So, we've had David Lord go on and analyze it.

[10:42] And so, what we're looking to do is bring some, we have sci-fi a rock, cross the rock,

[10:49] Bring it over mix it with soil and establish this slope similar to it. It's very similar to the one that was approved about 10 years ago. So we're going to come up with a slope have some re a couple of reverse benches and then we're going to we're going to matt it here. It says anchor mat, but I know your regulations call for coconut.

[11:14] Oh, so that's what we're going to switch it over to the colk in the mining.

[11:19] And the bottom we have right along this line where you're going to have.

[11:23] I think Mr. Nathas, do you mind zooming in quite a bit so we can see more where you're pointing.

[11:28] Thank you.

[11:29] Let me just, yep.

[11:32] So here we're done in the bottom, we're going to add hay bales with silt fence, a double

[11:38] combination is so we'll be asking Mr. GF Constructed to build this up in layers, one to foot layers at a time as it gets impacted up into each of the, this is the first bench, you guys stabilize this section, work up to the second layer, stabilize it up to the third and then have us all stabilize before he can move

[12:08] on.

[12:10] At that point, that's where we've done for the stabilization.

[12:15] I think, David Lord is online, he's the one who analyzes the wetlands in that area.

[12:21] He may have some other observations also.

[12:30] Good evening.

[12:31] For the record, my name is David Lord.

[12:33] My company is sort of resource consultants and I have an office in Maryland and Connecticut.

[12:38] I believe in your application package, you have a document I prepared.

[12:43] day that September 17th, if lists the process and the evaluation that I've formed

[12:52] on property, relative to the delineated intermittent water course channel, which is shown

[13:00] on the drawing there with flags 7 through 14. I looked at that and I'm page 2 of my report

[13:10] you will see some photographs of that channel area.

[13:15] It is not a wetland by soil type.

[13:19] By that I mean there is no connection with any groundwater

[13:24] table.

[13:25] There are no wetland soils associated with it.

[13:29] It is strictly an intermittent water course

[13:32] that functions as the discharge pathway for a detention basin, which is

[13:42] locked to the left of this drawing, the town property, show you a visual of the

[13:53] outlet structure from that detention basin that flows into this waterpours channel,

[13:59] But it is not a true weapon by soil type, but yet it's an intimate water force based on the current standards.

[14:10] It does have a somewhat well-defined channel.

[14:14] It does have the appearance of water flowing or standing that's not directly related to restore me then.

[14:24] I, the attention basin has characteristics of persistent flow when capacity is reached

[14:33] in discharge begins.

[14:35] There's patiently, there is really no difference between the upland areas on either side

[14:41] of this water course channel and the wetland water course channel.

[14:46] You'll see a close-up photo 2 on H2.

[14:50] Mr. Lord, this is Lord Hold on once I get to you have that any of this because I

[14:54] I don't have, I would just give us a couple minutes because we don't actually have it in front of us for what you're doing.

[15:04] So you may, I'm going to, I may ask you to go back a little bit and reload some of this information, so we can have it, the verbiage with the image that we know we're looking at.

[15:14] Sure, you're viewing photo number one, an illustrily view, you see the existing rock slab wall, the area coming down to the area about where this large in place like slab goes that's the area that is proposed to be filled in the incremental to establish

[15:46] the rock protected slope that's shown on the site land drawings.

[15:54] If you move up to photo number two, this gives you a close-up view of the water course channel.

[16:06] Important point to focus on is the existence of last year's leaf drop.

[16:11] Within the fine water course channel limits, that's an indication to me that water does not flow through this area in such a velocity that has picked those leaves up and clushed them through the water course channel on the area of light 20.

[16:33] You'll see some of the burn vegetation, which is either side of the water force channel.

[16:43] Those are upland ferns, primarily Christmas fern, which is an upland type fern.

[16:50] Not a wetland, and there are no wetland specific plant species within the limits of the defined water-course channel.

[17:01] The Water Force Channel, I did not define it myself.

[17:06] It was re-established through accurate survey of the original wetland delineation work that defined the closest edge to the proposed filling activities on the last 20 and on the last 19.

[17:27] I've also looked at the Connecticut National University Database for any listing of plant

[17:35] or animal species in the immediate area of the proposed work.

[17:41] They have no listed sightings for either plant or animal species within the limits

[17:51] of the

[18:01] on a sapling-sized tree immediately below that, you will see a wooden stick with a blue flag in this area.

[18:13] Here, that marks one of the limits of that water force, the water force channel, which actually extends to the right,

[18:23] downgraded the end of the development.

[18:27] Again, very characteristic of the Upland Review Zone

[18:31] is this very rocky surface area,

[18:36] which has very large rocks that extend down through the soil

[18:40] surface to be a very hard side

[18:43] between the limit of the intermittent water

[18:46] and the existing slab rock wall where the work

[18:51] is proposed to be done. In the area that I am highlighting here, there is some indication

[18:58] of channelized flow or at least to find flow from the rocks on either side of the flow pattern,

[19:09] the rockiness of the water force channel surface further dissipates water that's discharged from the

[19:18] that detention basin flowing through the intermittent water

[19:22] per channel, reducing the velocity

[19:24] to be, which, again, is evidenced by the presence

[19:28] of last year's reef deep drop and the total lack

[19:32] of any sorely erosion or sedimentation

[19:35] that I could find, other than further upgradient,

[19:41] and possibly on the out-of-open space property,

[19:45] There's one little sediment delta that appears to be the result of a break in the rip wrap,

[19:54] wind, and edge, bunchpool from the intention-based structure itself.

[20:03] That is shown on photo-four, that break in the, this is the rock rip wrap, bunchpool area,

[20:12] it's stone-wine water comes out of the detention basin, settles in here, reduces the velocity,

[20:21] the discharge of water boost through the rock rip wrap, much full limit bottom area,

[20:29] and then goes into the subject inter-minton water force channel.

[20:41] I've also looked at the

[20:43] on-site intermit watercourse channel, even to somewhat downgradient where it leaves the subject

[20:50] the lots and moves further downgradient. I saw no indications of any of the watercourse channel

[20:58] provided any of what are considered critical habitat conditions for plant or animal wildlife species

[21:07] in the on-site water course channel and those sections immediately downgrading of the on-site

[21:15] portion of the water intermit water course channel.

[21:22] I'll pause at this point and ask if anyone has any questions concerning what we have found

[21:28] and studying the subject, intermittent water forces, existing conditions,

[21:36] and

[21:38] I'll leave it at that for this point in time to answer any questions that any members,

[21:44] so the commission may have.

[21:53] Yeah, before we get too far into what's just

[21:57] outside of the year scope of work, what is so the current slope coming down,

[22:02] what is its condition? What is it? What is it set up as? Because I know you're doing the fill on top of it.

[22:11] I don't have access to that. Do you have that in your records of the construction and the engineering plans for that potential base advantage flow discharge?

[22:23] No, I'm talking about this.

[22:26] I'm not talking about the retention based on the non-subject.

[22:30] I'm talking about the slopes on Latin 20 and 19, et cetera, as they currently stand, before you can

[22:39] any film, what is there to help us to see what they set up last?

[22:44] There's no indication of any soil erosion taking place on any of the channel's sections

[22:49] that I saw.

[22:52] Are they ledge near the surface, is there a good chunk of soils above that that would be

[23:03] absorbing anything?

[23:04] There appears to be what would be described as a very stony surface of the site.

[23:13] Both outside the water course channel and in the limits of the intermittent water course channel,

[23:19] there are very large lots, which are partially buried.

[23:23] The surface of those are exposed to the, above the soil surface, there are also intermediate

[23:30] sized blocks inside. They're in places very tightly knit. They do not move. Walking over them

[23:40] or trying to dislodge them. They do not move in any manner. They are solid in their existing

[23:48] care. Okay, so if I get a good rain, would water be absorbed down through that or would it run off

[23:55] the top and down into the wetland and the water course down below off the end of the property.

[24:03] Based on the safety and the observations I've made are the water course channel limits.

[24:09] All of the discharge coming out of the detention base is carried in a confined limit

[24:15] area that's defined as the water course boundary and have no indications that I can see

[24:23] of any soil erosion or sedimentation that moves any of those

[24:28] watts, any of the soil on the surface of the channel

[24:32] itself.

[24:33] I don't have any information on what size,

[24:36] but the tension basin has been there for a number of years.

[24:40] I'm not even looking at a detention basin,

[24:42] which is, no, I'm looking at this chart

[24:46] coming out of that.

[24:47] Yeah, no, I'm looking at the sheet flow on the subject

[24:52] for properties. So on a lot, 18, 19, and 20, that sheet flow. That's what I'm looking

[24:58] at. I'm not looking at anything outside of the process.

[25:01] Okay, I'm sorry. I get interested in it. Yeah. So I'm looking at those.

[25:06] That same condition occurs. If you go and look at the photos, you look at photo one

[25:17] And photo, I think it's three.

[25:21] You can see what the conditions are

[25:24] in the upland as it approaches the intermittent water push.

[25:29] It's very stable.

[25:31] Large rock exposed on the surface.

[25:34] Water sheet flow comes down that slope.

[25:38] Is moving being deflected by the rocks around.

[25:42] And it is being reduced to velocity.

[25:45] be based on slope, the surface texture of large rocks, and also the leaf

[25:53] cuff, which is a decaying plant material, that's on the soil surface.

[25:57] It's still there today from last year's, in previous years, leaf crop.

[26:05] So it's, in my opinion, that that slope is extremely stable.

[26:09] So it does not have and is not subject to sorely erosion or sedimentation issues.

[26:19] Okay, so last one from you real quick, so that same process, if it rains on 1819-20,

[26:28] it sheets from the road straight back pretty much.

[26:32] That water from what I'm hearing, correct me if I'm incorrect, is not being absorbed

[26:38] on the lot, it's being, it's running, it's sheeting surface across the surface until it

[26:47] flattens out, even though the rocks, yes, may slow it down and give some turbidity to

[26:53] slow it, but it's not being absorbed there at all. It's going, when it does rain, it

[26:59] sheets across the top, that what you're calling the intermittent water course will capture

[27:07] and then it kicks it off down to the adjoining properties of the town property.

[27:13] And during periods of extremely small, regular, lean fall events, you will get some

[27:20] infiltration through the soil surface where the soil is exposed in between the rocks.

[27:28] And it slows down as it bends and is deflected by the rocks.

[27:32] it has the opportunity to infiltrate into the soil there.

[27:38] The really problematic, but potentially problematic issues are when large storms flow and

[27:46] have to potential to pick up that leaf material, this large soil particles entering them

[27:53] in the sediment that goes into the water portion.

[27:56] I'm not seeing any evidence of that type of occurrence within the upland review zone below the rock slab wall down to the limits of the intermittent order.

[28:11] It's safe.

[28:13] Okay.

[28:14] I lied.

[28:14] I do have one more question.

[28:16] I'm sorry Eric.

[28:16] I know you're waiting.

[28:19] So given that, and now I know you've seen what the engineers and what not are proposing for the

[28:26] fill would that fill sort of function the same way where the water should stay on top

[28:33] or would the water because it's rocky and some containing soils being put in there

[28:41] would that would that water were rain would it sheet still or would it go down into that

[28:49] fill would you know to filter out if there's anything there or would it just go across

[28:56] the top and it's followed.

[28:57] So we have the opportunity, based on my understanding of what that new slopes are going

[29:05] to be constructed by it's going to be a combination of soil and rock material.

[29:10] Some of it will be planted vegetation of cover.

[29:14] That's why you increase the likelihood for water that reaches those new slope areas to

[29:22] infiltrate into the material and move down work and move towards the

[29:28] intermittent water force channel. There is similar just different location on the

[29:36] site but very similar manner as it does today to the existing wax lamp wall

[29:43] that's further up the soil. So really no change in how the water moves off of the

[29:51] object, lots and moves towards the inner water, for it's going to be very similar.

[29:59] Move, move, move, move, move, move, move, move, move, move, move.

[30:02] Okay.

[30:09] Did you actually have anything to stress or not? Sure. Okay.

[30:14] Thank you. I know in your presentation, you talked a little bit about the existing conditions.

[30:22] As part of a public hearing that we've decided is required for this, we need to get some certain information

[30:29] provided to us like a description of the ecological communities and functions and values of the

[30:35] wetlands. Is that something that you described here or is there another narrative that you

[30:41] provided in this example? Well, there's no other narrative. The condition of the slope where the

[30:59] It has some vegetation, but not a lot.

[31:03] There are sizable trees with trunk diameters arranged from five to over 20 inches in height.

[31:12] In that upland review area, shrub understory is very limited because the mature tree canopy does not let a lot of light move to the ground surface.

[31:24] And ground cover vegetation, you have some secondary regrowth of the main tree canopy species,

[31:32] which are very, and the ferns are the only plants beyond the secondary regrowth of

[31:44] the tree species, which are present both in the upper review zone and in the water force

[31:52] channel itself. It doesn't differ, again, the uplands and the inner vent water for a channel

[32:01] has very similar vegetative cover and soil surface stoneness. They do not have any persistent

[32:15] water source for wildlife to be attracted to the area. They do not have vegetation which provides

[32:24] food of food supplies. They would be looking other areas in not in this area as a food supply.

[32:33] And with the exception of the main tree canopy species, you would not have much of the way of

[32:39] a nest in sites or cover of protection for wildlife species within that.

[32:44] That function is not, if there today, it's not going to be significantly altered with

[32:50] what is proposed, because the rot and soil slopes will provide wildlife habitat function

[33:01] and cover protection as in establishes the vegetation that's proposed to be growing on

[33:07] there.

[33:07] Other than that, the area, especially the environment water course, provides only a function as an exit mechanism in a discharge mechanism for the storm water that she flows and reaches the environment water course comes out of the detention basin and flows down through the Great.

[33:35] That function will not be altered and will look different, but the majority of it will function just the way it does today.

[33:45] I don't see any reasons to believe there's going to be any significant alterations to any of the existing functions and values of the intermittent watercourse channel from what is being proposed in the up and review area on the subject.

[34:04] a lot C-T-19 and 20.

[34:10] I've talked about it at point eight and nine on page four. I

[34:16] talked specifically about I see no decreases in the long-term functions and values from

[34:25] the anticipated activities and I have a summation which at the appropriate time I'll just make

[34:33] maybe I could just read that now.

[34:35] In my professional opinion, the proposed rock russia operation,

[34:40] with the list of operations, and there's a set number

[34:45] of local regulations and some practices are listed

[34:50] on the safe land going.

[34:53] Does not represent a potential for significant or measurable

[34:57] adverse environmental impacts to the short-term or long-term

[35:02] functioning of the subject, wetland resource, and its present levels.

[35:07] The Internet Water Course channel is going to function the way it does in its existing condition

[35:15] after the proposed work has been completed on it.

[35:21] And with that, I'll close the B.A.P. to answer any additional questions the members may have.

[35:27] Thank you. So, in part of us finding that there could be a significant impact by this work.

[35:36] What prudent and feasible alternatives have you considered that would cause less or no environmental impact to the wetlands?

[35:51] The site, as I have described it, does that, in my opinion, result in a significant potential for adverse impacts to the wetlands system?

[36:04] I have not hoped at what they had feasible and prudent alternatives because I feel the proposed alternative for the wall and the rip wrap provides sufficient protection to the resource to not result in any degradation by it, either during construction or water after the feature has been correct.

[36:32] So, the engineer made David, the makers, might have additional comments to make regarding any feasible and fruitful alternatives.

[36:44] But that's all I have at this point in time to work with Jeff.

[36:51] Yes, they made this, we basically just admit what was approved years ago from the slope in this, you know, the way the slope is benched it off.

[37:08] So in the same house, so we really haven't looked at any alternatives to this other than just a minute.

[37:14] What was there? How cool of years ago?

[37:16] Alright, thank you.

[37:18] So the Connecticut Inland Wetlands and Water Courses Act requires the Inland Wetlands Agency to make the determination about whether there could be potentially a significant impact.

[37:29] That's the decision.

[37:30] Then that this body made at a previous meeting. So because we did that, we're required by state statute to make you describe prudent and feasible alternatives.

[37:42] That's a requirement by state statute. We can't just accept that you haven't looked at that. You have to show us what you've considered as options for this. So do you have any prudent and feasible alternatives that you've considered?

[38:01] Well, the original, like, the other older that we ever looked at originally was not doing anything

[38:07] on that slope at all, keeping the house up on top and not, basically not giving the house

[38:15] a back yard is going to be as it's, I know we talked about the construction company and this

[38:22] day shows this on, but that we did look at that.

[38:25] So if that's the prudent feasible term, that would have been it.

[38:28] We looked at just moving a house in leading as a slope and basically on the ground as it sits.

[38:39] So is there a reason why that plan is not?

[38:41] That's just into the upper right here, but no, no grading whatsoever in the back.

[38:45] Is there a reason why that's not a feasible option here?

[38:52] This is like basically, because this is the focus of proved here, so that's what we went with.

[38:57] thought it was approved so we thought we could just mimic it and bring it forward and

[39:01] update it and go with that.

[39:06] If I can, this is David Lord.

[39:09] While it may be feasible, it is, in my opinion, not necessary or

[39:16] prudent because it does not provide a significantly enhanced level of

[39:26] of potential for impact to the web, the intermittent water course, as it functions today,

[39:34] is significantly protected from the future, development of lots 18, 19 and 20 by the proposed

[39:43] measures, and that provides a level of protection and makes it a proved solution because

[39:56] because I don't see a significant difference

[39:59] in moving the top of the field slope

[40:02] farther away from an intermittent water course,

[40:07] which has very little flow in its present condition.

[40:13] So that would be an additional comment.

[40:16] I would be regarding the feasible and prudent alternative

[40:21] to provide a greater level of protection

[40:24] to the resource. I don't see that here with this project.

[40:31] Thank you. Have you provided an analysis of chemical and physical characteristics of the

[40:37] film material?

[40:41] I have not known. David?

[40:48] No, I'm just telling you it's going to be a

[40:50] cross-block with some fines, but we haven't done any tobacco already, and now I'll just say

[40:54] that no. Okay, that's another requirement of if we find there's a potential

[41:03] for significant impact. And lastly, is there's soil sample data that you've collected

[41:08] for this?

[41:12] The soil samples that are taken are for the definition or observation of the wetland soils,

[41:21] the poorly drained, very poorly drained, deluvial, or fletclane soils. There are none

[41:26] of those soil types there. That negates the need to take soil samples within a literate

[41:34] water course channel, which is based on physical characteristics, vegetation characteristics, not soil pipe.

[41:43] All right. Thank you for clarifying that. All right. That's good for me. Thank you, Google.

[41:47] Thank you, Mr. Cross.

[41:55] A couple of the items that Mr. Prost asked were where items are I was going to look at.

[42:00] You know, it's like, you know, location of the house on the lot. Use of pillars in order to accommodate any of the slopes,

[42:09] You know, a walk-out basement doesn't sound like a super bad idea or, you know, like I said and moving it toward roads.

[42:17] I mean, I've grown up in multiple corners of the country and have seen some really, really imagined

[42:23] if items for houses on slopes are in places where there's environmental questions.

[42:32] So, the alternatives are important to see what can be done because it's, to me, it's not

[42:38] necessarily, hey, what's going to make it better?

[42:41] It's, what's going to create the least impact on an up-and-review or a possible setting

[42:50] a possible condition of an issue down the road into that, into that water course.

[42:59] And again, as Mr. Prouse asks, there are a number of boxes that we as a commission need to check off in order to move forward with anything here.

[43:08] So, and he's very clearly listed those off.

[43:12] But I know that our inland weapons agent might have some different opinions on a couple of the items that have been presented.

[43:22] So if Mr. Liu, but if you are able to go through your findings of the properties and what you were looking at and seeing, it would be appreciated.

[43:33] So before I get into my discussion points, I want to back up a little bit and remind the wetland agency that what was presented on August 17th is what you made the determination on and what was presented on August 17th was a forested wetland.

[43:51] not an intermittent water course, and that includes the boundary that was shown on the map.

[43:57] If the applicant wants to dispute that, I would recommend that they withdraw and re-apply,

[44:04] but moving forward with what we have in front of us, we're going to go under the assumption

[44:08] that the wetland that was presented to you, which you made a determination on, is the one

[44:12] that we're discussing.

[44:13] And I have some photos as well that I took, and I have had the discussion with the wetland

[44:19] scientists, and today he said on the phone that there were

[44:21] aluvial soils that came out of the detention basin, which

[44:26] are wetland soils.

[44:29] So I'm going to share some photos that I took on site.

[44:33] So you get an idea of a little broader picture of what's

[44:40] out there.

[44:41] So I will share, I'm going to tell you.

[44:45] So this is, this is the rear of the 95, I believe, or address 95, 95, rock

[44:55] range, the one that's furthest towards the end of the cul-de-sac.

[44:59] So this is the,

[45:00] Bottom of that slope to the left, the wetland is within the forced and area. And prior to that is, this is, we're looking, we're standing in the open review area, basically,

[45:14] hoping that. Okay. Good. This is some erosion that is occurring at the bottom of that slope, you know, due to natural forces. It's, it's a fairly steep slope.

[45:28] The vegetation there is mostly herbaceous, with a little bit of shrub in there, so there's not a lot of stability with root mass, because it's fairly recent vegetation, and it's pretty rocky.

[45:42] So it won't support a lot of larger vegetation.

[45:46] This is the same area, with some more erosion.

[45:50] This is looking back to where I was standing in the previous photo, so that's the same area.

[45:54] And this is at the base, so just inside the forested area, there's another drop, and it's mostly

[46:04] boulders, and it looks like there was a constructed wall, it doesn't look very natural.

[46:12] This is a little further down slope in the wetland.

[46:18] So this is looking into the wetland area, you can see there's vegetation,

[46:24] on the left side, but not in the middle, which indicates some unstable soils, because

[46:33] the vegetation has an established itself.

[46:38] Again, this is that same edge. I'm trying to think.

[46:42] So this photo here is looking across the wetland. The slope at the top part of the photo

[46:49] goes into the up-and-review area and you can sort of see the daylight where the rock bridge road is and another similar photo there and that's it for the for the wetlands.

[47:04] All right.

[47:06] They probably run the images sort of in the middle of that stream where you saw the stacked rocks.

[47:14] Yeah, which lot were those off of?

[47:16] You know, this is the rear of, well, this is a little further back. So this is, uh,

[47:24] got a lot. Is it 19 and I'm trying to remember the numbers now? Right left in middle. Yes, the,

[47:31] this one is between the left and the middle. Okay. So this would be, but it's a little further out.

[47:39] I mean, it's still, it's still in the upland review area, but it's further away from the lots themselves.

[47:44] If that makes sense.

[47:46] I got it.

[47:47] Thank you.

[47:48] All right.

[47:50] Any more questions on the photos?

[47:51] I'll get into my memo.

[47:55] All right.

[47:59] So I will, hopefully you all had an opportunity to review the memo.

[48:03] I put in here some points for consideration before we get into the determination or the

[48:09] determination requirements or the decision requirements.

[48:12] So, the subject wetland located at the north end of 95 rock ridge is the headwater for a larger

[48:21] system that feeds into the Burnt Mountain Brook through the case mountain recreation area

[48:25] and adjacent neighborhoods.

[48:27] There's currently a steep slope, as I mentioned, leading down to the wetlands from the subject

[48:31] parcels.

[48:34] The plan, as presented, is essentially to mimic that slope but shift it closer to the wetland.

[48:39] The proposed fill to create the new slope will require approximately 2,000 cubic yards of material.

[48:47] And the proposed fill slope will have approximately 1.33 to 1 ratio with a run of 60 feet in a rise of approximately 45 feet.

[48:59] The Section 8.1 of the regulation states that the agency may require as a condition of the permit,

[49:09] the filing of a bond was such a shurdy in a form to approve by the agency.

[49:17] Items that may be bonded include erosion control, stabilization, and or mitigation activities.

[49:24] As the applicant mentioned, the proposed, what's on the plans for the erosion

[49:29] matting does not meet Manchester's public improvement standards.

[49:33] What's on the plans is a type of matting that is comprised of nylon and polyester

[49:40] and the public improvement standards requires coconut, because it's biodegradable and

[49:45] it will persist.

[49:47] And at the time of the writing of the memo, the applicant had not provided any of

[49:52] additional required elements for public hearing.

[49:57] So then I will go into those requirements.

[50:01] And this was already touched on by the agency, but I'll review them anyway.

[50:07] So it's required within our regulations and state statute is the description of the ecological communities and the functions and values of the wetlands and the effects of the proposed activities on those communities and wetland functions.

[50:21] So functions and values are, they have defined wording, which wasn't presented, there are 13 different functions and values as defined by the Army Corps of Engineer, and those should be presented in a way that matches the appropriate language from Army Corps.

[50:45] There should be a description of the prudent and feasible alternatives considered, which would cause less or no environmental impact to the welllands.

[50:54] There should be an analysis of the chemical and physical characteristics of any film material.

[50:59] And I'm going to go back to that one in a second.

[51:01] And there should be a soil sample.

[51:03] Soil sample data.

[51:05] Only if the areas believe to contain poorly drained alluvial and or floodplain soils.

[51:10] And as I mentioned, in my conversation with the soil scientists today, he said that there

[51:15] was a loovial soils at the outlet from the tension basin.

[51:20] And I didn't do soil investigations to see if there was poorly trained or very poorly trained,

[51:27] because we're using what the applicant is presenting to us at this point.

[51:31] And I'm going to go back to the analysis of the chemical physical characteristics.

[51:35] There's two points I want to make.

[51:38] One is the, there's a concern from the town of Manchester's health department, regarding the chemical characteristics of the film material.

[51:47] Because there are private wells in the area, and there may be a high ground water in the wetland area, which you have jurisdiction over.

[51:55] There should be an assurance that the chemical composition of the film material is inert, and will not have a detrimental impact on these resources.

[52:02] And the other point is, the applicant indicated that the film material to be used within

[52:08] the oplaner view area will consist of a mixture of crushed rock and fine and coarse mineral

[52:15] soils.

[52:16] The applicant has not provided the chemical characteristics of either the crushed rock or the

[52:21] mineral soils.

[52:23] And that's all I have.

[52:40] So, I'm going to ask, because as part of our packet, our memo packet, as part of that work from

[52:51] Manchester Health Department, they were talking about

[52:57] possible downstream items from when

[52:59] you're crushing the rocks in the composition of the rocks. And that part, I did not understand

[53:05] of having, so when it gets cracks, exposes,

[53:12] and the word that came to my head was acid,

[53:14] but that's not quite right.

[53:19] Can either of you go into that a little bit further?

[53:22] I think you guys know where I'm going on.

[53:25] So, it's helped to part and gave us a deep report, which is in the packet from not a report

[53:31] of paper from, I think it was 2019, 2019, 2019, which is what I'm referring to, which is

[53:38] a guide point for deep in how they address items like this.

[53:43] So as we are in public hearing, I would love to have somebody speak to it so it is entered

[53:49] into record and that we have some background on it that we can work with.

[53:54] I'll talk to you.

[53:55] I'll talk a little bit and I'm going to keep it to wetlands for now.

[53:59] So, the concern is the chemical composition of the rock, and as the rock is crushed and exposed to weathering,

[54:11] the concern is whatever chemicals may be comprised within those rocks may be mobilized.

[54:17] The, as it has the potential to impact the wetlands, which you have jurisdiction over, is the concern of the alteration of the chemical composition of the wetlands soils and the groundwater within the wetlands.

[54:34] So if there's an assurance from the applicant that those rocks are inert, then there's less of a concern.

[54:42] But we don't know that because we don't have that assurance.

[54:47] So it may be that there's no impact.

[54:50] Once the rain starts flowing through the crust rocks and the new soil that's being brought in,

[54:56] that may have no impact at all.

[54:59] That's why state statute requires a chemical description of the film material.

[55:10] I'm not going to speak on the wells right now.

[55:12] Now, I think that's more relevant.

[55:14] Next application.

[55:15] So they have the other application, right?

[55:21] And I see you're looking at me for a further explanation on this, which I don't

[55:27] know that I'm necessarily the best person to do, however, what I understand from this report

[55:34] and if there is any request for any further information or more than happy to have somebody

[55:41] from the health department attend next meeting to explain this further, there is this concern

[55:51] about, again, chemical composition of Iraq, and therefore, the recommendation from the

[55:58] health department was to require certain testing to be done of underlying geological

[56:07] how bad rock, and that would have to do with again, what is that bad rock made off, because

[56:15] certain type of rock has ability when exposed to processing, when exposed to weather,

[56:25] rain, when exposed to things like that, when crushed and opened, it potentially can result in

[56:35] leaking of some sort of chemical materials, iron,

[56:41] high iron, sulfate, arsenic, uranium, radon,

[56:47] like there is a list here of things that should be checked,

[56:52] that could end up essentially leaching into the underlying soil

[56:58] and effectively be transported perhaps into wells.

[57:01] So before, and this is related to the next application coming up, before those kind of activities are undertaken, there is some discussion about whether or not it would be proven to get a request of a applicant who does request the search dust and be done.

[57:25] Okay, yeah, so it generally lines up with what I would.

[57:30] The second aspect of that has to do with the static pressure or static pressure in the water or something along those lines, which also can be disturbed by these kind of activities, which then can result in well yields and well contamination.

[57:54] Yeah, that's another.

[57:55] That part of the research is to it.

[57:57] Because water does not compress, it just adds pressure

[58:00] to everything around it.

[58:03] So part of that is why I was asking about what the water flow

[58:08] and absorption ability of the current situation is versus

[58:13] the 2,000 cubic yards of fill, which

[58:16] is going to be that crushed rock and something else.

[58:20] So, if that crush rock and something else was going to allow water to go into it and still

[58:26] seep down into sort of follow that surface process,

[58:32] that's my concern and that if there

[58:35] is anything in that film, if that has anything that will move that pH level, it does a very

[58:46] large amount of damage to upland review, wetland area when it reaches that space.

[58:57] And I know that a lot of that conversation about how that fill is going to look

[59:01] in the after-the-rockets process on the other lot is technically in the other application,

[59:09] but it's going to end up here based on the plan.

[59:11] So,

[59:15] part of me is that set is on the prudent and feasible for Mr. Nathas.

[59:25] So, if let's do a hypothetical real quick, if you didn't have this pile of rock across

[59:31] the street, what would be the option for these three lots?

[59:36] As, you know, I'm doing a prudent and feasible exercise and thought here.

[59:40] So, if you didn't have that fill, what would that process look like for these three lots and building these three final buildings?

[59:49] Let me...

[59:56] Okay, so if we have that...

[1:00:00] We probably have to re-emoke at moving the houses up closer to the road and then you fill in it and making

[1:00:10] a small backyard behind where we have a walkout and just do the best they can with the slope that's there.

[1:00:19] You can see it like certain areas like up here, this section right here is very, very steep.

[1:00:30] So, it's kind of like a little kind of safety hazard, but you know, people would have to know you have to put a fence across the top of this slope and just believe it's the way it was in work and work around what we got.

[1:00:46] Because obviously I would think the town would want to have some big stuff bringing in truckloads and truckloads and truckloads that fell on this because I'm sure they wouldn't beat you.

[1:00:54] And they wouldn't even know we would need to have you with that.

[1:00:56] No, okay, so that would be a whether it's prudent or effect cost effective, but that would be a feasible alternative.

[1:01:07] Yes.

[1:01:14] Just also so I can get an image of how much fill we're talking about.

[1:01:20] That 2,000 cubic yards,

[1:01:26] how much is that?

[1:01:29] So if I had a football field, how deep would this be?

[1:01:37] Give me a second here and I'll.

[1:01:54] I didn't know you're going to do maths night, did you?

[1:02:07] If it was a...

[1:02:08] If it was a... if it was a piece, if it was a football field,

[1:02:12] it would be about a foot or so deep.

[1:02:19] The football field is basically 5,000 square square feet.

[1:02:24] Yep.

[1:02:25] Okay.

[1:02:27] So 50, 100, 5000.

[1:02:30] Okay.

[1:02:31] Thank you for that.

[1:02:31] It really helps in putting images and scale to what we're talking about.

[1:02:40] Anything else from commission?

[1:02:41] Anything from anybody online?

[1:02:44] Ms. Larson?

[1:02:46] Ms. Brewer?

[1:02:47] Ms. Hassan?

[1:02:52] Not at the moment?

[1:02:57] Okay.

[1:02:57] I'm all sorry now.

[1:03:01] Ms. Fembers, don't I?

[1:03:03] I'm fine.

[1:03:04] Yeah.

[1:03:05] I'm good.

[1:03:10] Okay, so this is public hearing.

[1:03:15] if they're, unless you guys do, are you guys all set, you guys, I'm pointing over it

[1:03:20] town staff to see if there's any other technical items to bring in before I do.

[1:03:24] Yeah, I, I have one more.

[1:03:25] This photography, if you want to set up, while he's presenting, you're more than happy.

[1:03:30] Yeah, I have one more comment. This is related to the erosion sedimentation control

[1:03:34] treatment on the slope. So the, you know, as we talked about the, the

[1:03:40] adding, after getting said that they would be willing to change

[1:03:43] them adding out the plans show what's called

[1:03:48] reinforced silk fence, which is silk fence

[1:03:50] with haters at the bottom of the slope.

[1:03:53] When we see steep slopes like this, there's also a

[1:03:57] recommendation that a row of silk fence

[1:03:59] to be placed at the top of the slope because what ends up

[1:04:02] happening, you might have a matted slope.

[1:04:05] But if a real erosion channel is formed, it can go

[1:04:10] under the matting and just wipe it all out and just bypass the entire matting.

[1:04:15] So it's a recommendation that some controls be placed at the top of the slope as well,

[1:04:21] to prevent the undermining of the matting.

[1:04:24] And we should also point out that the plans do show anti tracking pads,

[1:04:31] entering the site, so that would be temporary controls that should be,

[1:04:36] at least identified, and there's silk fences, there's stockpiles near the road with a

[1:04:43] silk fence wrapped around it, so that's that's shown as well.

[1:04:50] And that's all I have.

[1:05:08] Yes, this is a public hearing. There are anybody from the public who would like to provide

[1:05:15] testimonies tonight. So if you could, make sure your green light is on, and then

[1:05:24] State your name and your address and your testimony.

[1:05:27] Thank you.

[1:05:29] Bonnie Pataki, 161 McKee Street.

[1:05:33] I have seen these preliminary plans being a member

[1:05:36] of the Conservation Commission,

[1:05:38] and I apologize it wasn't here earlier,

[1:05:41] but I was concerned that that time

[1:05:43] about the steepness of the slope and also the

[1:05:48] typo-service geology present is going to make it very

[1:05:51] to stabilize, and it seems like your staff has noted that and also, as you also had mentioned

[1:06:00] about pulverizing rock, and the possibility of maybe introduction of acid sulfates, which really

[1:06:12] makes it very difficult for plant eggs. So I would really continue on that recommendation

[1:06:18] to get some sort of analysis, soils, geological analysis of any rock that might be pulverized

[1:06:26] abroad on to site, and the present existing condition, plantings, native planting will be

[1:06:34] difficult, so you really need something that's going to take foothold a shrub kind of thing

[1:06:41] to prevent rather than erosion control mats.

[1:06:45] I'm in favor of moving the house closer to the street, so there was talk and I don't know if this was presented by the applicant of a rather retaining wall.

[1:06:55] And if that still going is proposed, because also a drainage behind the retaining wall, where is the drainage going to go.

[1:07:04] Are you going to be creating a channelized area where water is going to go down slope?

[1:07:10] So those were the concerns at the time, I understood this is a challenging, when lots of left

[1:07:19] like this, these lots are challenging, and that's why they're left, because they weren't

[1:07:23] basically developed early on, because they offered challenges.

[1:07:28] So from a perspective.

[1:07:30] That I think that it would be suggested that you acquire as conditions, since this was to move forward, and give it a permit, that you would require to monitor plantings, making sure you are native soil and appropriate plantings, because it is going to be challenging.

[1:07:49] and this is up slope from the case matter or recreation area.

[1:07:56] So those are those my thoughts.

[1:07:59] And I understand this is a difficult site

[1:08:04] and understand a single family home is desirable,

[1:08:07] but I would really definitely am going to reiterate

[1:08:11] that I think it should be closer to the street

[1:08:13] and away from the steep slope because of the less concerns

[1:08:17] and environmental risks. Thank you.

[1:08:30] So, anybody else from the public present that would like to speak?

[1:08:37] This is part of, I know we had a number of comments via email to staff.

[1:08:43] Were any of those for the inland wetlands or were those all for the second time?

[1:08:47] So, we received the total of four emails.

[1:08:51] Obviously, the total of four emails they are from.

[1:08:58] My glasses, I'll tell you from home.

[1:09:04] Okay, so there are from Chris.

[1:09:16] The first one is from George.

[1:09:18] I think we received two emails from George Shaw.

[1:09:24] We received one email from

[1:09:31] John and Alyssa Dunn.

[1:09:33] And one email came from John and Bethany Stinkan.

[1:09:41] We're Stinkan.

[1:09:42] I'm not sure how to pronounce the last name correctly.

[1:09:45] They were not identifying which application this was submitted.

[1:09:51] Whether it was for the inland weapons or the excavation permit,

[1:09:57] which is the next hearing over.

[1:09:59] So, I included them as a public hearing testimony on both applications, because they ultimately

[1:10:06] reference the development that is this development that we are talking about.

[1:10:16] Those were sent in an email to the commission,

[1:10:21] I believe on Friday.

[1:10:22] And

[1:10:34] so those have been mentioned and officially put into the record for us, anybody have anything else to follow up on?

[1:10:42] Is there anybody on mine who's waiting to speak to this application?

[1:11:00] You know, to me, I think that this process raised a lot of very, very valid questions,

[1:11:13] Which,

[1:11:17] in my mind, we might want to be able to have an answer to most of those before we do it

[1:11:25] before we push forward too far on this one.

[1:11:30] Mr. Kennedy.

[1:11:31] Mr. Kennedy.

[1:11:32] I'm sorry.

[1:11:33] I didn't see that.

[1:11:34] I didn't know.

[1:11:35] I'm sorry.

[1:11:36] It's a Mr. Professor.

[1:11:36] Because I know where Mr. Kennedy is going.

[1:11:39] Yeah.

[1:11:39] Oh, no.

[1:11:42] I think we all have concerns about enough information.

[1:11:46] So I think I would summarize by saying it seems like the applicant discussed another option about moving the house is closer to the road in response to a question from you

[1:11:59] So it's just seem like there's an alternative that maybe they haven't discussed with us enough about whether that's prudent feasible

[1:12:08] And if this could just be avoided by having smaller lots, but houses closest to the road and that would avoid conflict with the wetlands, so I think it would be good to have the applicant provide more testimony about that.

[1:12:22] I don't think we can really close this public hearing tonight, though, because I feel like we have concerns about the chemical characteristics of the film materials, specifically about a crush rock and mineral extraction that may happen because of that that could change pH levels.

[1:12:37] So, I think it could be hard for us to move along with our statutory duty unless we get that information in writing.

[1:12:47] That's my opinion on all the rest of the commission things, but I think those are two items that we probably need to hold open for.

[1:12:54] Yep. Okay. Mr. Kennedy.

[1:12:56] Let me just inquire the applicant that you have heard some of the comments and questions

[1:13:04] by commission and staff, would you like us to continue the public hearing so you can

[1:13:13] see might be able to address some of this?

[1:13:19] You want to speak to the applicant now?

[1:13:22] Yeah, I'm inquiring to the applicant, you know, would you like an opportunity?

[1:13:26] Yes, so Gary Fayman, a member of theater age development, the applicant.

[1:13:33] Yes, I would like to continue the hearing, I mean, continue to another meeting so that

[1:13:45] we can address some of the concerns of the commission, which specifically is analyzing the

[1:13:53] the situation of whether the house is or how the ability to move forward or whether that would

[1:14:03] create a driveway, it's too steep down into the house.

[1:14:09] This is the kind of thing that will be looked at between the time frame of now till the next

[1:14:16] I mean, if that we are, we table until I would be in favor of that.

[1:14:25] I'm going to.

[1:14:30] I motion from the Security of Second from Mr.

[1:14:32] Process to I got to get it right before I read the wrong one.

[1:14:38] The continued to continue the current public hearing,

[1:14:40] which is in the Inland Wetlands Permit 35 2026 to October 5.

[1:14:51] You know, I do a quick discussion because I want to make sure I

[1:14:54] we review the handful of points that we want to make sure that...

[1:15:00] Applicant and Townstaff are clear on what we're looking for coming back. And I'm wanting to also

[1:15:05] make sure commission is on the same page. So if nobody else has comments, I'll read through

[1:15:12] my list of items that I know that I took note of. Okay. So I had on my items of note was,

[1:15:22] as the applicant had just stated,

[1:15:27] the testing of the fill and the rocks for the chemical

[1:15:33] composition of the fill and the rocks, so we know what was going in, we're looking at some

[1:15:40] more fleshed out information on the prudent feasible alternatives, including but not limited

[1:15:45] two relocation of the house on the houses, on the targeted lots.

[1:15:53] And as Mr. Liu but stated, a little more fleshing out of the description of the logical

[1:15:59] communities, the function and values of wetlands according to those.

[1:16:04] We don't often let our world coinc overlapped with the Army Corps of Engineers, but they have

[1:16:12] some really nice definitions in terms to work with the 13 that were referenced.

[1:16:17] And then the soil samples from that aluvio soil on the outflow, which goes into the property

[1:16:22] at lock 20.

[1:16:24] And those of the 1, 2, 3, 4 items that I had taken note of, were there any other items that

[1:16:33] commission had in their head that they wanted to make sure we had information on?

[1:16:39] Mr. Chair, if I can, if I can just clarify for the applicant, when you say testing of the fill and the rocks, are you suggesting or are you requesting that the applicant does the testing as per deep guidance?

[1:16:55] Those items 1 through 7 or are you simply asking that they test the soil like they normally would?

[1:17:04] I would personally be looking at those deep guidance because I know the I've hate to say

[1:17:12] but I've actually done some of this before I threw a lot of water at things and blew it up as part

[1:17:19] of a job and that opened up a lot of random things that you didn't know we're always in there.

[1:17:26] So, and given the history and the workups of this, I don't want to put something on there

[1:17:33] that could expose and then allow without filtering a different pH going into the into

[1:17:42] a wetland.

[1:17:43] So, yes, I would like the short answer is, yes, deep, deep connection values, there we go.

[1:17:55] and I'm assuming you'll help relay all of this over to Applegant and ensure that they are on the same page.

[1:18:03] We will. Mr. Chairville, we'll put your comments in writing and send it to them. Thank you.

[1:18:09] Okay. Anything else from anybody?

[1:18:11] On the commission.

[1:18:13] Or go through the commission first.

[1:18:16] I was going to call it pretty quick.

[1:18:18] So because nobody's saying too much right now.

[1:18:20] So the other.

[1:18:21] The other.

[1:18:21] But that's another question. The other two points of discussion and it's up to you if you want to put it in there was the

[1:18:29] adherence to public improvement standards for the erosion control mapping to make that formal not just verbal

[1:18:36] And then there was the recommendation for putting more controls at the top of the slope

[1:18:45] Okay, so you're yes, I did forget about those. I am so sorry

[1:18:51] So what you have mentioned is the public improvements

[1:18:54] and it's to change the mapping to put that into the plan

[1:18:57] as a written piece of the plan,

[1:19:00] as well as to add into the plan for the INS,

[1:19:05] the INS controls at the top end of the slope

[1:19:09] for where that fill is going to go in

[1:19:10] in order to control water going into that space.

[1:19:13] So we're at six items at this point though.

[1:19:16] Okay,

[1:19:21] not seeing any other hands or anything else.

[1:19:23] Okay, so we have a motion on the table with a second.

[1:19:28] I need this.

[1:19:29] Okay, all those in favor of

[1:19:35] where did I go?

[1:19:38] Continuing, current application, public hearing of inland

[1:19:42] wetlands permit 352026 until October 5, all those in favor.

[1:19:48] Hi. Hi.

[1:19:50] Any nays?

[1:19:53] Any of stains, chairs, and eyes, and the animus eight to go.

[1:19:59] Thank you.

[1:20:03] Second public hearing also is for seat or rich development

[1:20:07] for the excavation permit.

[1:20:08] This is for the activities across the street.

[1:20:10] Exervation permit to dash 2026.

[1:20:14] Mr. Kennedy, could you do the honors of the legal notice please?

[1:20:18] For sooner or later development, I will see excavation permit 2-2026, excavation permit for processing

[1:20:27] lock through a portable rock structure.

[1:20:30] Did he located at 106 rock bridge, rural residence, plus 2-zone, rock is currently stored

[1:20:36] at 90 and 106 rock bridge, rural residence, plus 2-zone, and after crushing will be used

[1:20:44] Bill 75, 85, and 95 of rock rich.

[1:20:51] Okay, so, I'll get this going in a second, but because it is a separate public hearing,

[1:21:00] if there's anything that was presented as part of the inland wetlands public hearing, you'll

[1:21:04] have to do it again here that if you want to make it part of the record for this hearing.

[1:21:10] So Mr. Nefis, are you presenting this one as well?

[1:21:12] or yes, I am.

[1:21:16] Okay.

[1:21:18] All right, so if you get, again, introduce and present the application,

[1:21:22] I would be appreciate it.

[1:21:23] Thank you very much.

[1:21:24] May this license put a fish on the air,

[1:21:27] and we serve air, representing GF construction.

[1:21:32] What Mr. Fameon is looking to do

[1:21:35] is to install a rock crusher at this part of right here,

[1:21:40] which is on between lots of 11 and 12.

[1:21:45] He currently has some piles of locks in this area.

[1:21:50] And he would like to use a hammer to break it down and then crush it.

[1:21:57] And then to bring it across the street to use to fill the slopes across the street.

[1:22:01] Um, when it before goes across the street, it'll get mixed with other soils and some finds, so when we, when he puts it down, it can pass it, it'll make a stable slope.

[1:22:13] Uh, he looked at some alternatives, uh, which was to take the rocks off site.

[1:22:21] That didn't cross the right back, but that didn't see it.

[1:22:26] because of the bank and the knowledge folks that will be weak.

[1:22:30] Point in and out, we think that being loved as a service sense, to just crush it and move it right across the street and go from there.

[1:22:39] At that point, this is a 300 foot radius. There's one house that's affected by that right now.

[1:22:48] The other way, everybody else is outside of it. And so at this point, that's pretty much it.

[1:22:57] Let me see, let's use a soil to stabilize the slope that is on site, doesn't want to have to take it off site and bring it back.

[1:23:05] It's basically what it's looking to do.

[1:23:15] Okay, any details on the scope of operation or time or days of the week that you want to enter into testimony?

[1:23:24] I would like to ask Mr. Fayman to address that because she's going to have to be out there every day doing

[1:23:35] it.

[1:23:36] Yes, so Gary Samin did a read the development member,

[1:23:43] we have noted on the plan, hours

[1:23:46] of operation, and the window of when we would complete the process by, so I have spoken

[1:23:58] with the town planner, you know, within the last, last day today.

[1:24:05] And we originally had June, the complete, all crushing activities and filling by June

[1:24:16] of next year.

[1:24:19] And, you know, depending on when we actually get started, you know, I mean, we were trying

[1:24:24] to get out of the gate, we had an approval in September,

[1:24:34] so July, so now we're in September,

[1:24:37] maybe possibly it would be coming from the commission again in October, so we're getting

[1:24:43] close to the winter time, so I mean, I feel that a one year, you know, by the end of the next

[1:24:51] And it will be 100% done, which would be pretty much October 30th.

[1:24:59] So right before the cold in November, we would have all the entire process completed by then.

[1:25:12] And at the same time, we would be willing to bond for any erosion control measures that

[1:25:21] But the commission or the town fields is necessary and, you know, to ensure that the project is completed by that date.

[1:25:33] But we feel that we can get done whether the houses get sold or built either way, you know, we'll stack them if we have to.

[1:25:45] And, you know, get the ground, work done, crush the material, move the film material, put it in place.

[1:25:55] If the foundation's in and then it's, you know, you'd be looking at just standard construction of, you know, wood framing and taxing for, for the three lots where the still is happening.

[1:26:09] The other two of us across the street, where the rocks are presently being stored, which

[1:26:17] is what 11 and 12, currently as it stands right now, we have a building permit on what you

[1:26:29] and we are scheduled to proceed on that now, and because the house is sold, so we're ready to put that.

[1:26:44] We're prepping the put that foundation in and build a house on a lot of love and that is presently sold.

[1:26:53] So,

[1:26:56] you know, that would leave less into the project.

[1:27:00] Lot 12, 18, 19, and 20, which is a subject matter of this application, and then the only

[1:27:11] other lot that would be left would be a lot of nine, which we've already done, brought

[1:27:18] that site to grade.

[1:27:19] So it's just pretty simple construction

[1:27:23] digging the hole and putting the foundation in.

[1:27:27] And at the moment, we do have an interested party

[1:27:30] that I'm that lot nine that is proceeding with plans

[1:27:37] that they have dropped it up and are ready

[1:27:42] to go into contract and seek and seek a building permit.

[1:27:46] I got a lot, I got a lot nine.

[1:27:53] Okay, a little bit.

[1:27:58] I'm gonna run through just a couple of processing items.

[1:28:04] So, so you guys brought up the 300 foot line.

[1:28:06] So there is definitely a house right next door.

[1:28:08] What's going up, what's going to be in there

[1:28:11] as a buffer or some form of mitigation

[1:28:13] for the noise for that immediate neighbor?

[1:28:18] That's in that vicinity.

[1:28:21] Okay, yeah, we were asking the contractor the site contractor, it's part of his, of the contract for him to provide, you know,

[1:28:37] down the mitigation technique for during the crushing process.

[1:28:46] And from what I'm hearing from the crusher is that the crusher does not really give

[1:28:59] that much noise.

[1:29:01] There's more hammering noise from hammering than there is from crushing.

[1:29:06] So,

[1:29:10] I mean, that's what I'm hearing after speaking with the suppliers of the crushing machine that will be rented on site portable crusher.

[1:29:24] And the contractor will also be responsible to provide dust mitigation, you know, brew off.

[1:29:34] Whatever message that are appropriate which would be, you know, pretty much simply putting a water in a spring water into the crusher as it's crushing.

[1:29:51] And that's also responsible to do that, also crushing dust control and solid mitigation.

[1:30:00] And if anything should develop during the process, you know, all the time to do a door by us and, you know, will work out whatever needs to be done to satisfy the town.

[1:30:19] Okay, so I heard one item for what, you know, the procedure would be for, for dust mitigation, which makes sense.

[1:30:26] We've all seen the construction sites and the drop water on the area that's been excavated that makes sense.

[1:30:37] But I didn't hear anything about what that process would be for sound mitigation.

[1:30:40] I just heard sound mitigation process.

[1:30:43] What is it?

[1:30:45] And the same line before you answer that.

[1:30:49] I'm assuming hammering is the pneumatic,

[1:30:51] Jack Hammer, type thing, is that what you're talking about for Hammer?

[1:30:58] It's a hammer that is hot to an excavation machine.

[1:31:04] Okay, it's a bigger one, though.

[1:31:06] Yeah.

[1:31:07] So yeah, you know, there's very size hammers,

[1:31:12] bigger the machine, the bigger the hammer that can fit on the machine.

[1:31:17] know, typically small machines have smaller hammers and, you know, like a 90,000 pound excavator

[1:31:27] which is huge, and I could take up to a seven-ton hammer, so I mean, you know, a couple

[1:31:34] of pops and it's breaking big boulders, so,

[1:31:41] you know, it's kind of like in terms of

[1:31:47] mitigation, we're going to investigate that also during the time period between now and the next meeting.

[1:31:58] Okay. Yeah, definitely want to have something there.

[1:32:04] In

[1:32:07] my, in our packet, there's a commentary

[1:32:11] of hours of operation of 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. Weekdays only. You feel that that's appropriate

[1:32:20] that in the scope of work that you're going to be looking at and the dealing with the neighbors

[1:32:28] in the neighborhood?

[1:32:32] Well, I mean, I feel that it's not necessary to go into the weekend and, you know, those

[1:32:42] have to start at seven. I mean, I guess it could be a, if it had to be, you know,

[1:32:50] four or five o'clock. I mean, I mean, the crushing activity could go very fast.

[1:32:59] So,

[1:32:59] I mean, I, you know, once we're, we're all set up in the rock hammers, and we're ready

[1:33:06] to feed the rock into the crusher, the crusher is born on its site.

[1:33:11] We're talking about bringing a 2K size rock to put into the crusher.

[1:33:21] So it feeds very quickly and it puts out material out of a conveyor belt very quickly, also.

[1:33:29] So, I mean, typically, you know, the length of time of actual crushing with the portable

[1:33:36] crusher,

[1:33:39] I don't see it being more than two months, a couple of months with the crusher.

[1:33:46] And I did, so, I mean, we would be establishing a seasonal limit of next year, you know,

[1:33:56] end of October, just to make sure that it's done by then. But I mean quite frankly, once

[1:34:05] we start, we're going to be quickly getting to making progress and the crushers not

[1:34:18] cheap to rent. So we're not going to let it sit around like there's going to work and then

[1:34:24] going to leave after it's done, it's job.

[1:34:30] I guess that I've got a list. So bear with me.

[1:34:35] The trucks are those going to stay on site at night or those going to come in in the morning

[1:34:42] and then leave at night.

[1:34:45] Where is your truck?

[1:34:46] Yeah, so you said there are going to be trucks or is that going to be smaller machines?

[1:34:53] front loaders pulling the process rotter across the street for the fill if you get to that point.

[1:35:03] Okay.

[1:35:03] Are you talking about the transport?

[1:35:04] Yes.

[1:35:05] The transport is, you know, the most, you know, there's going to be two trucks probably.

[1:35:10] Two 18 wheel trucks, standard trucks that as a material comes off the conveyor belt, it would generate a pile.

[1:35:18] And then that pile would be loaded by an excavator into the trucks.

[1:35:26] They would drive it down into the area that will be filling, and at that point it would

[1:35:31] be spread and compacted.

[1:35:33] So it would be at the same time that we're crushing was filling.

[1:35:39] Final opinion.

[1:35:42] Okay.

[1:35:43] And also as part of this, when you had that crush, it was stated that that crush would

[1:35:48] mixed with a smaller diameter fill soil. Is that soil from on site or is that going

[1:35:56] to be brought on site?

[1:35:58] No, don't site. Yeah, when I bring material and that's on site.

[1:36:02] So as you dig up rock that is on the site and the rock that was brought to from the site,

[1:36:12] we didn't import any material.

[1:36:14] So, the material that is on 1112 currently, you know, has film material and with rock in it.

[1:36:24] You know, it's kind of like a margin, if it's part of it, you know, it's difficult to get the rock out of.

[1:36:31] It's all different sides in the film.

[1:36:34] So, that would also be said in the crusher at the same time.

[1:36:38] So it would be, you know, they would be schooling up from stockpiles, the fill, and the rock,

[1:36:46] feeding into the crusher, and then it crushes the whole thing up and it comes out in a consistent

[1:36:54] mixture of, like a homogenous, you know, maybe three and a half to five inch maximum pieces of rock

[1:37:03] with Phil and ground up stone, that would be a highly tight material that would be easy to spread

[1:37:14] and would be easy to compact and reach out, get compassion on whatever, rolling with a roller

[1:37:29] or...

[1:37:30] And compacting in certain areas or driving over compacts, also.

[1:37:39] Last one, I promise.

[1:37:43] For the rocks you're crushing, is my understanding that these were sort of collected and accumulated over time during the building of the other properties.

[1:37:52] So is there the expectation of any like actual digging or is it just the rock is there and it's on the surface and it needs to get picked up?

[1:38:03] And at most sort of, because it's been there for a couple of years, just dislodged from the surface.

[1:38:12] Yeah, that's a good question.

[1:38:14] So, it would be a combination of, you know, I mean, some of those lots there would be actual fill.

[1:38:22] So, you know, I mean, we're raising the grade of the foundation in the driveway on some of those lots.

[1:38:32] So once we have approved, obviously, a lot of 11 is, or the plot plan is already approved.

[1:38:40] So we're working with a approved plot plan that we would be putting this site to grade

[1:38:47] at the grade on the approved plot plan.

[1:38:51] As we once we, you know, French is on a lot of 11, we move, you know, the rock, the rock,

[1:39:00] and boulders off of 11, then we would have the foundation state out, and then we would

[1:39:08] dig the foundation hole. You know, should we encounter any rock in the foundation hole,

[1:39:15] and we would hammer that, and that would become part of our surplus, you know, of our material that's

[1:39:24] get crushed. So in essence, there would be some material generated out of the foundation

[1:39:37] digs, but there will be material that will be used to fill those lots and bring them

[1:39:48] that needs to be in order to, the previously approved grades actually from when the road was built,

[1:40:00] which was allow things such as footing drains to be installed,

[1:40:09] and they function properly.

[1:40:13] that we can't set a foundation to low

[1:40:17] and then not have a way to out the water.

[1:40:20] So that's why some of these foundations have to come up

[1:40:23] on a grade from the road in order to get the pitch

[1:40:27] on the footing drains into the outlet structure

[1:40:31] that it has to go to.

[1:40:35] So it's all planned out.

[1:40:39] We don't anticipate a lot of material coming

[1:40:44] from anywhere else, but except for foundation digs under remaining lots, which, I mean,

[1:40:52] nine would have to get dark, and 11 would have to get dark, yup, and 12 is basically

[1:41:02] a fill, so I want to tamer it where we're good.

[1:41:11] I think that's my list for right now.

[1:41:13] Any other questions from Commission?

[1:41:20] That's a promise.

[1:41:21] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[1:41:22] I remember when, you know, we were talking back in May, 2009 about blasting that was going on

[1:41:29] during the Kup sum of road application. And there was lots of public comment there about damage

[1:41:35] to foundations from blasting that occurred with that site. Are you the, the, the rock crushing

[1:41:41] that's going to be operating under this permit would be, would be crushing and not necessarily

[1:41:49] blasting, would there be any potential blasting that we need to be done as part of this work, though?

[1:41:56] No, there wouldn't. There would not. That's the reason why we're hammering the rock instead of blasting,

[1:42:03] bringing much, uh, to try to, uh, not to blast. Yeah, you talked about if there was

[1:42:10] deep boulders in the foundations that you'd might need to extract them. Would you ever need to use blasting,

[1:42:14] to get those out?

[1:42:17] No, we would not need a blast, we can hammer them out.

[1:42:21] Are the vibrations that you'd be, I guess, impacting into the ground in this operation

[1:42:26] similar to the type of vibration that you'd see in blessing?

[1:42:32] Well, I'm not a seismographic expert, but from the people that I've talked to and you're

[1:42:38] willing to get, I mean, get, they've made us a comment on that, you know, it's nowhere

[1:42:45] near any vibration level that a blast would, would, would, would, would, yeah. I think

[1:42:55] I'll lean on your expertise because you've been working on these properties for 20 years now.

[1:43:01] So, but you, so your testimony is that this operation of crushing is much less intensive

[1:43:08] than in producing off-site vibrations, then the last image?

[1:43:15] I mean, my opinion would be that from the crusher there's no vibration damage as a result of the crusher which is on above ground.

[1:43:37] And as far as hammering, I mean, we've been hammering rocks at all a lot, and we haven't

[1:43:47] seen any problems relating to that.

[1:43:52] So we're thinking with that, it works as minimal disturbance, and I mean, maybe it doesn't

[1:43:59] noise, yes, it does. But as far as vibration, capable of damaging a foundation, my opinion

[1:44:09] is solved.

[1:44:11] All right. And I mean, I would like to have a big, maybe, thought, comment on that as

[1:44:15] possible.

[1:44:17] Yeah, if they make this, the difference between the last thing and tipping, the tipping

[1:44:23] It's just like taking a little chisel and chisel and chisel and chisel and chumps off the

[1:44:29] outer perimeter of the lock.

[1:44:33] We're blasting and they're drilling and they're putting charges down deeper into it and

[1:44:37] popping the whole foundation in one shot.

[1:44:40] Where this chipping is facing just mostly on the surface, it travels, doesn't travel very

[1:44:46] far.

[1:44:47] And you're only taking a little chumps off as you go, you're not popping big boulders off.

[1:44:52] You make everything just coming off in smaller pieces and as far as some of the last

[1:44:57] Those are affordable, so those coming down with...

[1:45:00] We all can stuff like that. So they have kind of built in the little vibration system into the got some shocks on there. So there won't be any, it'll be definitely won't be in there as bad as blasting.

[1:45:22] I think I just add that when this was approved, I'm sorry, we're going back to blasting in 2009, but we did impose conditions about how it needed to be limited from 830 in the morning to 330 in the afternoon.

[1:45:38] And no hammer activities on Saturdays or Sundays.

[1:45:43] So it is something that we have restricted in the past

[1:45:47] tighter than 7 AM.

[1:45:59] I do want to try and do it quick because I think

[1:46:03] in the opening narrative for you as you said

[1:46:06] that there was only one property that had

[1:46:09] was within the 300, but we're looking at property lines

[1:46:14] and based on the lines.

[1:46:15] you've got two properties that are within.

[1:46:19] So you've got, I can't read my numbers from here though.

[1:46:25] Both,

[1:46:28] come on machine,

[1:46:31] I'll give you a lot of numbers

[1:46:32] and house numbers.

[1:46:33] So a lot of eight, which is house number 15,

[1:46:37] and then a lot of 74, which is house numbers.

[1:46:39] I'm sorry, a lot of number 10, which is house number 74.

[1:46:42] So that 300 foot line diameter hits both of those.

[1:46:46] The lot in between is the one that's empty.

[1:46:48] And you also have, a lot, 17, which is house number five, nine.

[1:46:56] So actually we've got three, which are within your three hundred foot degrees instead of just the one.

[1:47:03] So just, it's just a point of clarification for the what we're looking at, it's not necessarily that line crossing a house or a foundation but just a property line according to my understanding of how

[1:47:17] I'm supposed to be reading the ranks.

[1:47:21] So anything else from commission?

[1:47:28] That at the moment.

[1:47:29] OK, thank you.

[1:47:32] Anything from town staff for technical notes or anything else?

[1:47:37] Sure, so I think I will do two things.

[1:47:41] First thing is, I will give you a little bit of background

[1:47:44] on this property when this development.

[1:47:47] And then I will summarize my staff for you because I think they kind of tied into one another.

[1:47:55] This development, the Birch Mountain subdivision section 8, was approved back in 2001.

[1:48:01] So quite a few years back, there was a phasing plan that was approved in 2003.

[1:48:07] Subsequently, several extensions were granted ultimately the subdivision.

[1:48:13] So, the public improvements, the road, the utilities, the public improvements that are associated with the subdivisions,

[1:48:22] where the subdivision, where adopted, accepted by the town in 2011.

[1:48:29] So, the subdivision has officially sort of stopped being the subdivision, and it became individual lots,

[1:48:38] because the road is accepted, and at this point, this is the development of individual

[1:48:44] lots.

[1:48:47] This is a very challenging site, from the very Gadgo, and I wasn't here in 2001, but

[1:48:54] from what I understood when I was here in 2009, this site had presented severe challenges

[1:49:05] for the development, and there were severe erosion and sediment control issues that occurred throughout the time.

[1:49:13] And just to put this out, some of that predates this particular developer,

[1:49:20] because there was somebody else who actually owned and was developing this site from 2001 to about 2008 or 9, something around here.

[1:49:32] It is my understanding that about to await to a nine

[1:49:37] statement to cover the site, Mr. Prouse,

[1:49:43] reference the old approval from 2009,

[1:49:49] which was subject to a contentious public hearing.

[1:49:54] Where a lot of neighbors came out and complained

[1:49:57] about the conditions of the site and the stage

[1:50:01] of that development. And as a direct consequence of that public hearing, the planning and zoning

[1:50:08] commission at that time undertook about a year of taking changing the subdivision and

[1:50:18] the zoning regulations. So there were changes that were adopted to the subdivision regulations,

[1:50:24] and there was this change in this submission.

[1:50:31] This is only regulation that this development is in front of you tonight is the

[1:50:37] right consequence of what had happened as a result of all that development.

[1:50:44] So this particular regulation which this application is before you for requires a special permit,

[1:50:53] which is the same thing as special exceptions.

[1:50:56] So you're looking at those kind of criteria.

[1:50:59] It requires the public hearing.

[1:51:01] And it requires you to review the stuff

[1:51:06] that I outlined in my memo.

[1:51:09] So in that, I would like you to highlight, for you,

[1:51:17] as a point for consideration,

[1:51:18] are the applicant has indicated that this proposed activity will be directly related to finishing

[1:51:28] of that 2001 submission. We are working, we are looking at five lots. The applicant indicated

[1:51:37] that he is not proposing to establish some kind of commercial, rock, crashing operation,

[1:51:43] or commercial excavation activity in the or introduce that kind of use into the residential

[1:51:52] lot.

[1:51:53] Based on what is submitted, the proposal is intended to process rock that is already

[1:51:59] generated on the site and stored within the subdivision and then re-use as

[1:52:06] However, there is a note on the plan that indicates that at the end of the crushing and

[1:52:14] greeting, the removal of access may be required.

[1:52:20] The applicant has indicated that 2,000 cubic yards of material will be deposited to fill in

[1:52:27] perhaps wetlands.

[1:52:28] we

[1:52:30] Are dealing here with this application with stated 5,000 cubic yards of material, which, you know, there was a testimony during the Veterans application that 2,000 cubic yards is one foot on a football field, so that gives you some idea how much perhaps 5,000 cubic yards would be.

[1:52:52] but especially if there are changes on the veterans and I suggest that the commission may want

[1:53:00] to talk to the applicant and establish some sort of perhaps more specific assessment as to

[1:53:08] what would access be and then how would develop or deal with that access. So for example, if that is

[1:53:18] be trucked off-site, you know, what are the hours of that would that require, as a condition

[1:53:27] of the approval, the applicant to come to the commission and get that portion approved

[1:53:32] as a separate once we know what access is, but the commission would need to be comfortable

[1:53:39] with expectation of what that access is so that we do not end up perhaps having a huge amount

[1:53:47] of perhaps traffic later on, so I would encourage you to ask questions to that effect.

[1:53:58] I would also recommend this conversation about location, the question that Chair asked

[1:54:05] with regards to the 300 feet separation of the pressure from the property line.

[1:54:15] that particular provision of the zoning regulation took previous planning and zoning

[1:54:24] commission, several meetings of discussion, because the point of that particular provision

[1:54:33] was to provide regulations for the subdivisions that are approved subdivisions under construction,

[1:54:40] not necessarily individual building lots when something comes back in their houses that are built

[1:54:50] and there are things of that nature.

[1:54:53] So the commission wanted to make sure that there is enough leverage in the language of the regulation

[1:55:00] for them to consider.

[1:55:03] In this situation, we're dealing with five lots, which is five subdivisions, from an approved subdivision.

[1:55:14] So, they're not proposing crushing on each individual lot, which was why those 300 feet exist there.

[1:55:21] The commission did not want to have somehow this come up as an operation where each individual lot, somebody would come in and have a crushing.

[1:55:32] of appreciation to develop each individual act.

[1:55:36] But you should be comfortable that that distance is sufficient that the location of this

[1:55:45] crusher is such that to the most extent possible protects the existing homes in the neighborhood.

[1:56:12] So now we are going back to 2009 and the fact that back then this was also quite a bit of a concern.

[1:56:22] We are introducing an operation that has a potential to create a lot of knowledge.

[1:56:26] And a lot of dust, the commission should have assurance, assurance says that those will be remedied.

[1:56:37] The pneumatic hammers, that condition, that pneumatic hammers are not used.

[1:56:42] One of the perhaps consideration the commission can consider is whether or not the rock crusher that the applicant is using,

[1:56:52] that takes in suitcase size boulders is the best the most appropriate type of rock

[1:57:02] crusher that can be used because in order for them my understanding is in order

[1:57:09] for them to bring the existing boulders to suitcase size boulders they need to use the jackhammer

[1:57:19] So, there is already some need to process rock.

[1:57:24] Before it even gets into the rock crusher,

[1:57:28] also duration of operation could be reduced

[1:57:32] if there is perhaps a larger machine in place.

[1:57:38] However, that may mean more disturbance

[1:57:42] more noise to the neighbors.

[1:57:44] So the applicant should talk to the commission

[1:57:47] about options in that sense, I think.

[1:57:53] Truck traffic in access, the applicant's proposal is intended

[1:57:57] to reuse the proposal material within the subdivision

[1:57:59] that should substantially limit and reduce the need to transport

[1:58:05] the approximately 5,000 cubic yards of material.

[1:58:13] I think, again, I will bring that point about, like, just making sure

[1:58:20] about that future potential access.

[1:58:23] Like what are we talking about, how much will that be?

[1:58:28] With the erosion and sediment control,

[1:58:30] this is critically important.

[1:58:32] If commission proceeds to approve this application,

[1:58:35] we suggest to let us come back to you.

[1:58:38] So what I will be suggesting

[1:58:40] and you will see that in the motion is to perhaps

[1:58:43] keep the hearing open so that we can draft up

[1:58:47] a good recommendation for the motion, that ensures that no crashing or processing

[1:58:54] commence until applicable erosion and sedimentation control requirements have been

[1:58:58] reviewed approved in the commission sets and dates and date conditions for this operation.

[1:59:09] And then those conditions, such as end date, can then be enforced through provision of assurance

[1:59:16] through provision of bonding, through some other methods that we may consider.

[1:59:22] And then lastly, we provide a comment to the applicant of Pothuiko Reverellans, our

[1:59:28] those comments from Kim Dubanaski, our chief sanitaryan.

[1:59:33] Those are directed to the commission as well as to the applicant.

[1:59:37] And they really are about her referencing the Connecticut Department of Energy and Environmental

[1:59:45] protections guidance document for evaluating potential hydrogenological impact associated

[1:59:52] with blasting development activities.

[1:59:57] This guidance provides.

[2:00:00] Guidance to you, municipal and user officials, when evaluating proposed developments, where significant urge to remove and or blasting or developments can occur.

[2:00:13] So, the commissioner should consider if this proposed activity warrants production of data analysis that is outlined in the guidance document 1 through 7,

[2:00:24] which would then include them employing a professional hydrogelologist, surveying some

[2:00:36] wells within 500 feet of the area and some other things.

[2:00:42] So that is what we have.

[2:00:44] We have some other staff comments that are plan modification, but I think without even getting

[2:00:52] into that, because those are really blind modifications.

[2:00:56] There are some other questions or some other,

[2:00:59] but have things that you should be talking to the developer,

[2:01:05] or asking the developer to provide before this hearing

[2:01:09] should be closed.

[2:01:17] God knows the staff memos that are minor in technical.

[2:01:23] Yeah, I mean, there's a pretty substantial list.

[2:01:26] Some of it overlaps with what we heard

[2:01:28] as part of the previous application, so the deep items definitely overlaps and runs.

[2:01:40] We did get testimony from Applegant that there will not be any blasting, it will be hammered

[2:01:47] out and then dug out with excavation equipment if they run it to anything on that foundational

[2:01:58] at the end. So I did do some very, very quick math. So you're talking about a triaxial or 20

[2:02:07] ton truck you're talking about for 2,000 yards, you're going to get around 135 trips across

[2:02:14] the street. Then you have the question of what is going to happen with the estimated 3,000 cubic

[2:02:23] yards remaining after that, and that's another 200 trips, and I think those ones would end up

[2:02:30] going off-site out of the neighborhood. So that's 200 up, 200 down to get items out.

[2:02:40] Things to keep in mind.

[2:02:46] Is there anything from the staff comments that anybody on the commission

[2:02:51] has a question on, and it was a huge amount of information.

[2:03:02] It takes here of a, that's everything, town staff comments for, for at least for right now.

[2:03:08] Yeah, I have photos, it helps you, but I don't, I think you should just continue your discussion

[2:03:13] for that.

[2:03:16] I was going to pivot and just state that, as this is a public hearing, if there's anybody

[2:03:22] from the public who wish to provide any testimony for the application,

[2:03:32] and then Ms.

[2:03:32] Bratadi has already read or made mentioned and put into record the items that were received

[2:03:37] the email to town staff, essentially the same items that were received and answered as part

[2:03:44] of the previous application.

[2:03:49] There's a lot of open questions.

[2:03:52] And I think I got some of them, so I want to very quickly rehash a couple of the items,

[2:04:02] just so I know that I have my list of things to tick off, so if there's, as I read through it,

[2:04:07] if anybody from the commission has anything that I missed, where if there's a pertinent item,

[2:04:13] Renata, that there's a larger pertinent item that I miss, please, but, you know,

[2:04:19] larger item is the, we're going back to Prudent Visible, options and questions on the size

[2:04:28] of the machinery and the, and the crusher and the hammers that are going to be used for this operation.

[2:04:37] how that works on the balancing equation of time versus noise balance.

[2:04:46] So, larger machines less time, but likely more noise, smaller machines longer time, possibly less noise.

[2:04:54] We don't know. So, that would be one item we need some further information on.

[2:04:59] Even if it's just a discussion item.

[2:05:02] I heard from Mr. Prouse, the possible idea of constricting the timeline to, I heard, 83330 for the hours of operation Monday through Friday non-Holidays.

[2:05:21] I personally would like to hear more on sound abatement because it was just mentioned that it would be there, but we don't know what that means.

[2:05:34] We need to have a very good discussion on what is going to, what is going to happen to the

[2:05:42] remaining estimated 3,000 square yards of rock that is estimated to be on the property

[2:05:49] that we're looking at outside of the 2,000 square yards that are going to go across the street

[2:05:54] this plan comes to fruition. And then also, as we asked in the previous application,

[2:06:04] that 7. deep testing for the rocks in when they crush.

[2:06:12] I know that part of that is downstream after the effect, but also

[2:06:18] So fine particle items are our nasty items of work with.

[2:06:24] So I think those are my list of items that I had that I found.

[2:06:32] In addition to the testimony that needs to provide on some of the ENS that will have to go in place in order to keep the dust and the dirt and the any runoff.

[2:06:42] on the lots. I'm going to say lots.

[2:06:47] A lot. Singular because we're treating the two pieces as a single entity for this application.

[2:06:53] Did I miss anything but anybody heard?

[2:07:01] All right.

[2:07:05] Mr. Kenner.

[2:07:08] I'll make the motion to.

[2:07:10] Mr. Chair. Before the motion is made perhaps you may just ask the applicant if he has any answers to any of these questions.

[2:07:18] because that's a good idea.

[2:07:22] Sure. Thank you for that idea.

[2:07:23] Thank you very much.

[2:07:26] For either applicant or Mr.

[2:07:28] Nevis if on...

[2:07:30] Any of those items? Do you have any information on those? Or is it items where you'd like to take them all back and address them at a later point in time?

[2:07:41] Yeah, I think we'd like to put in my document and address them later on. All at once.

[2:07:47] Very well.

[2:07:50] Okay. Mr. Kennedy.

[2:07:52] All right. I'm the commotion we continue to public hearing to October 5th.

[2:07:57] for C-O-R inch development and all state

[2:08:01] exclamation, permit, 2-2026 went quotienting.

[2:08:06] Continuing the problem here into October 5th, 2026,

[2:08:10] and acquired the applicant to provide the following

[2:08:13] additional information, one detail.

[2:08:16] Information regarding the amount of the expected

[2:08:20] access to material details, regarding the specific

[2:08:24] for a group of states and others, not for the population and date and erosion control

[2:08:28] as during the expected removal of excess material to more information about the rock

[2:08:36] pressure for the growing condolences of using the rock pressure.

[2:08:40] With capacity, the handle will light a size, rock folders, three professional dilation and

[2:08:45] the underlying bedrock in terms of this operation causing any potential high- third geologic

[2:08:53] impact such as acid rock drainage from the wells within a 500 foot radius of the area

[2:08:58] disturbed by the proposed rock crushing and processing activity, or it would revise plans

[2:09:05] to address any outstanding staff comments in five,

[2:09:10] but any further information and response to the

[2:09:12] list of issues just listed by the chairman that weren't covered in the previous four points.

[2:09:21] Point of order, Mr. Chair, would we ask for a public comment?

[2:09:24] Yes, we have.

[2:09:25] We have.

[2:09:26] No one here is for a public comment.

[2:09:28] Nobody stood to speak.

[2:09:30] Thank you.

[2:09:31] All right.

[2:09:31] I guess I'm going to use the public comment.

[2:09:33] Would be on the expectation for that?

[2:09:35] From the audience, the question is the public comment.

[2:09:38] Would be on excavation.

[2:09:39] The answer to that is yes.

[2:09:46] Is it too late?

[2:09:49] No.

[2:09:49] Nobody seconded yet.

[2:09:53] I can leave that open for that question open if there is other testimony you would like to put forward.

[2:10:07] On the top of the one of the key street, I guess I would appreciate the commission not so much consider

[2:10:15] like how the chair is going to be pulverized by how are you going to monitor the noise.

[2:10:21] You had a very contentious hearing not too long ago about just processing what.

[2:10:28] And here we're processing what?

[2:10:31] So what's a safeguards of you are going to have for the surrounding community in terms

[2:10:36] of monitoring your life?

[2:10:38] So that would be my concern for both not-insistered, for the residents live in the area, but

[2:10:46] just, you know, in general people who are driving down the street.

[2:10:49] like this is a very aggressive, so I say earth-moving activity, so I think it's

[2:10:58] who's used to really consider how is a noise going to be monitored, the white

[2:11:03] and like you've heard something about the equipment, but I don't think that the

[2:11:08] have the opportunity to talk about the ways to think. Thank you.

[2:11:15] Thank you.

[2:11:16] Okay, that's the second motion. Perfect.

[2:11:20] So I have a motion from Mr. Kennedy, second from Mr. Prouse.

[2:11:24] Motion as red is the continuation of our public hearing

[2:11:30] for excavation permit to dash 2026 with the items that's listed

[2:11:34] with a extent, continuous to October 5, 2026. Any bit of discussion on this before I call

[2:11:43] a vote?

[2:11:47] Okay. All right. All those in favor of continuing the public hearing to October

[2:11:51] 5, 2026, aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any nays? Any abstains? Chair votes aye. We are continued

[2:12:05] Thank you very much, everybody.

[2:12:05] Let's see you in October 5th.

[2:12:07] Thank you very much, everybody.

[2:12:08] Let's see you in October.

[2:12:10] Thank you.

[2:12:13] Public hearing number three for the night.

[2:12:15] You see development with a special exception.

[2:12:19] Under Article 2 of Section 4.2 for construction.

[2:12:22] But three bay, quick loop and emissions facility.

[2:12:25] And all associated side improvements at 10, 76 and 10, 82,

[2:12:29] Tom Turnpike and 15 depost rate, but this is special exception, 6-0-2026. Mr. Kennedy,

[2:12:37] you might be reading the legal notice for our split.

[2:12:41] You see the development, special exception, 6-0-2026. Special exception on our

[2:12:46] Article 2 section 4.2 per construction of a three-way quick, medium-end

[2:12:51] emissions testing facility, and all associated site improvements at 1076 and 1082

[2:12:57] column turned by 15 depot street general business.

[2:13:03] Thank you.

[2:13:04] All right.

[2:13:05] I see the application applicant at the podium.

[2:13:10] So as long as that green light is going

[2:13:12] and you guys working on the power point.

[2:13:16] The green light is green.

[2:13:19] There is an issue with the computer though.

[2:13:22] Shut off.

[2:13:22] Once it's late, it doesn't seem to want to do.

[2:13:25] or battery is critically low, wiki wiki.

[2:13:29] Oh, it's pretty low.

[2:13:31] Nazelo is my battery, but it's pretty low.

[2:13:34] And it's plugged in.

[2:13:36] Internutten.

[2:13:37] Oh,

[2:13:41] there it is.

[2:13:44] This should help.

[2:13:49] I can get started.

[2:13:50] Yeah.

[2:13:50] So if you guys can introduce yourselves?

[2:13:54] Sure.

[2:13:55] My name is Jerry Gallo, I'm from the DOC development.

[2:14:00] Thank you for joining me tonight.

[2:14:01] We have a Tony Friend in Jane, Engineer Tim Koon,

[2:14:06] and General Contractor James Simmons.

[2:14:10] Well, thank you for your time tonight.

[2:14:13] And I want to thank the town staff for guiding me through this process.

[2:14:18] It's been quite a process to get here.

[2:14:20] And I appreciate everyone's guidance along the way.

[2:14:23] especially you David's, the aquifer was a daunting task that we're able to get through

[2:14:30] so I appreciate that.

[2:14:34] We've back around on myself.

[2:14:37] I'm a 1988 Manchester High graduate.

[2:14:41] I started working in the quick loop industry when I was 16 years old.

[2:14:44] I got the job through a co-op program at Manchester High.

[2:14:48] And that was that economy changed down on Brock Street.

[2:14:52] That was a job that most people would work there on high school.

[2:14:55] turn it into a career. It's really the only thing I've ever done.

[2:15:00] Okay? Besides, I wanted a couple of car washes along the way, but other than that, quick loops are the only thing that I've really done on my whole time.

[2:15:15] I wanted to take a minute and just to dress the aquifer approval that we received at the last meeting.

[2:15:20] And for the benefit of some of the commissioners who weren't here at that meeting, I wanted to make sure that we really address the safety protocols that we included in the design.

[2:15:32] to make sure that we were going to protect the aquifer on the ground board.

[2:15:40] Our goal

[2:15:40] was to exceed the best management practices contained in section 12 of an Manchester

[2:15:46] aquifer protection regulations, and I planned those that. Environmental protection

[2:15:52] was incorporated into the facility from the beginning of the design process. We kind of

[2:15:57] around that section 12 of the out-for-protection monitor.

[2:16:03] There are multiple layers of protection.

[2:16:06] We have fully contained indoor service operation.

[2:16:09] See, you're going to epoxy coated floors in the basement service area.

[2:16:13] There are no floor drains.

[2:16:16] Double wall new oil storage tanks.

[2:16:18] Secondary containment in a tank cradle.

[2:16:24] And a protective liner beneath the building as to just act as an additional barrier, God forbid the other three or four protections fail.

[2:16:34] Okay, keep anything from getting into the groundwater or the soil.

[2:16:40] Use fluids will be collected and removed prior to recycling.

[2:16:44] I'm sorry, proper recycling disposal.

[2:16:48] Though we know discharge of automotive fluids into the groundwater system.

[2:16:55] Okay, deliveries, deliveries will be handled to a truck or pull on site.

[2:17:03] I don't know if you're familiar with home heating oil trucks, it's basically the same type of vehicle.

[2:17:07] It pulls on the hose is then taken down into the basement, and the tanks are filled in the basement.

[2:17:13] So all the fills are done inside the basement, nothing is filled outside.

[2:17:18] Like for example a gas station, they fill outside of the tanks.

[2:17:22] This is all done inside the building.

[2:17:24] When they remove the waste oil, hose goes down, connects to a port in the tank, and it's

[2:17:30] back out of the tank.

[2:17:33] So again, nothing, no connection point outside of the bill.

[2:17:41] We've taken the added step.

[2:17:43] Even our washer fluid, anti-freezed, used anti-freezed, and this is something new.

[2:17:48] We're going to put wastewater tank in.

[2:17:50] They will all be double walled as well.

[2:17:54] Okay, the waste water is any mop water. We mop the floors at night instead of jumping it into the sink

[2:18:00] We're just goes into the storm

[2:18:02] The sewer system to the water treatment plant. It'll actually go down into the tank and then be reclaimed by the

[2:18:09] waste oil company

[2:18:10] All

[2:18:15] right

[2:18:15] The building rendering and appearance the

[2:18:21] environmental discussions discussed above are incorporated into the design of the building

[2:18:26] We put considerable thought into how the building will look and we're actually

[2:18:31] very proud of it, okay. The building was designed to have four good sides. So a lot of

[2:18:37] times when you go to a commercial area, you'll say, you'll see the front of it looks

[2:18:41] nice, but to go around back and it's just a senior block that's painted or something along

[2:18:45] those lines, or it's just the roof doesn't look as nice. Here, all four sides of the building

[2:18:52] are designed to look nice, okay. It looked like a front view. This building, it will be

[2:18:57] viewable from the neighbor and property, and we wanted to make sure it looked nice from all four sides.

[2:19:10] It was also designed to not look like a traditional auto repair shop or garage.

[2:19:15] I think you can agree from looking at it, but it doesn't really look like a traditional garage or auto repair shop.

[2:19:21] It does have garage doors.

[2:19:23] It's tough to get away from that, but the design, we didn't go with the flat roof.

[2:19:27] We just thought it looked more like a New England look to it.

[2:19:30] It's going to have a nice clapboard on the outside with a brick.

[2:19:36] What do you call that general?

[2:19:38] A lot of people.

[2:19:40] A lot of people are on the bottom.

[2:19:41] A lot of people.

[2:19:41] A lot of them.

[2:19:42] A lot of people.

[2:19:43] A lot of people.

[2:19:45] So it has to be believed it's going to have strong curve appeal.

[2:19:51] Maintaining a neat clean professional looking facility is part of our business plan.

[2:19:55] It's not something that's just being done here for you tonight.

[2:20:00] When I was part of the kind of york change, we did win at that time we won beautification awards and we were people often commented on how the property looked, the landscaping, and that was something that we were very proud of, and that will be the same here.

[2:20:18] All right, compatibility in the area.

[2:20:23] This use for a quick loop fits very well within the area.

[2:20:28] Currently, it's in the retail quarter of toll and turnpike,

[2:20:31] and nearby uses include Manchester Honda,

[2:20:33] Firestone Tire, Town Fair Tire,

[2:20:36] Two water body shops, Rockies Ace Hardware,

[2:20:40] BJ's Whole Cell Club, which also sells gasoline at tires.

[2:20:45] And a broad mix of other retail businesses, restaurants and

[2:20:49] fast food establishments is consistent with the automotive service and

[2:20:54] retail use their already established in the immediate area.

[2:20:58] The business will also provide an additional needed service for the

[2:21:01] residents of Manchester.

[2:21:04] Currently, there is only one dedicated option in Manchester for a quick

[2:21:10] no appointment, oil change and that's our old business economy, oil change, a broad sweep.

[2:21:17] Manchester residents have new business choices for a piece of restaurant, grocery stores,

[2:21:23] gas stations, auto repair, car washers, lawyers, doctors, dry cleaners.

[2:21:31] You name that list of every day services, there are multiple options, but for a quick

[2:21:34] oil change with no appointment is only one of the choice.

[2:21:40] So, the top, the residents will benefit from this,

[2:21:51] okay, the site plan, traffic,

[2:21:56] oh, I'm sorry, can you go to the site plan place as a green one?

[2:22:04] Thank you.

[2:22:05] I don't know.

[2:22:06] Can you make any bigger?

[2:22:07] I'm sorry.

[2:22:09] We really just need to see the green part.

[2:22:19] That's good.

[2:22:20] Thank you.

[2:22:21] So, Tom and Turnpike is up here at the top right here.

[2:22:26] You can't see it as cut off, but there's a turning lane.

[2:22:30] In the center, okay, for people to turn coming from the east or west, is the center turning away.

[2:22:38] All right, you see it right here, okay. The vehicles will enter the site, they'll head to the right here, around the building, okay, where there's two queueing lanes, actually there's three queueing lanes.

[2:22:51] We plan to use two queueing lanes that neck is a stacking from 19 vehicles, okay, which is significant stacking.

[2:23:00] And then if it does, God forbid we get busier, and actually hopefully we get busier, so

[2:23:07] we have a third lane, which will allow us to stack another 11 vehicles, and gets us up to

[2:23:12] 30 vehicles of stack, which is excessive.

[2:23:16] This facility here, is expected to do somewhere between 50 to 60 oil changes per day.

[2:23:23] So that gives you some, you can figure that relationship between the number of stacking

[2:23:28] where it's how many we're going to do in a day, and they don't all come and once, they come

[2:23:31] throughout the day. So the vehicles will come around here, they'll enter, they'll pull right

[2:23:37] up to the garage door here, I don't know if you can hopefully you can see that here and here,

[2:23:41] they'll be serviced in here, and then pull out and then I'll, I got out of the tunnel and turn

[2:23:45] pike. So it's that nice flow to the site. There's expected to be about five employees on, we have

[2:23:52] 10 parking spaces. It's not the type of vehicles we're a type of service, because the

[2:23:56] come and drop their car off, really the only people parking there, or maybe a sales person

[2:24:02] comes to make good for a sale or a customer. Okay, so there's really the plenty of parking

[2:24:08] available.

[2:24:12] The deliveries, you can see deliveries here, the trucks are maybe four hours. So

[2:24:19] when we see our oil deliveries, those are made in the morning before hours. The business is going to

[2:24:29] Okay, the delivery is done, but they will pull in around park, the host is then dragged into the basement and the tanks are filled to the basement.

[2:24:41] And the delivery is usually take place every couple weeks, every other week from all around.

[2:24:51] Please stop me if I'm missing anything or you have any questions. Okay.

[2:24:57] We did have a traffic study done.

[2:24:59] I don't want to, by Scott Hexeth, who's a licensed track for engineer,

[2:25:10] you should have received that in your packet, but he states that this useful represents approximately 77% fewer weak day trips and 73% fewer Saturday trips than the former use when it was a gas station in repair shop,

[2:25:27] and there's no impact, no negative impact on the traffic in the area.

[2:25:36] All right, do you have any other questions?

[2:25:42] Yeah.

[2:25:44] I'm sure we've got a couple of them.

[2:25:48] So in this plan, there's other than that stormwater line, there's no other access

[2:25:56] on to depot.

[2:25:58] Correct.

[2:25:59] Correct.

[2:25:59] That is.

[2:26:00] I wouldn't even call that access.

[2:26:02] That will be.

[2:26:03] No.

[2:26:03] There's nothing there.

[2:26:05] Okay.

[2:26:07] I'm just.

[2:26:07] So public hearing, I got to measure it all yesterday.

[2:26:11] Otherwise I can't talk about it later.

[2:26:16] Can you speak to the retaining wall on that southeast,

[2:26:21] south from southeast corner?

[2:26:25] We looked at the car wash application that was denied

[2:26:28] in the comments that the commission made about the wall

[2:26:31] in that application.

[2:26:34] And we tried to use that in our plan.

[2:26:35] And that plan I believe that wall was approximately eight feet tall, and only a foot off the property line.

[2:26:41] We've made it at its highest point, it's three and a half feet tall.

[2:26:45] There's also a wood guardrail.

[2:26:46] We'll go in front of it.

[2:26:49] Nice knowing that we're looking wood guardrail there.

[2:26:53] It wraps around.

[2:26:55] Much of exactly how long it is.

[2:26:57] Tim, I'm not sure if you know how many feet.

[2:26:59] No, no general.

[2:27:00] Okay, but it's represented by this black line, and it's three feet off the property line now.

[2:27:05] It's the first one foot and it's that ice-free cast, the larger blocks, lots of your blocks, I guess.

[2:27:16] Ingress and Egress.

[2:27:17] So this is a point of contention on a previous application on this lot.

[2:27:25] I'm looking at this and it looks like it's the old existing.

[2:27:31] I forget if that's.

[2:27:34] is my map. That's on the eastern portion of the city side, okay. Yeah. It's sort of where

[2:27:39] the existing curb used to be, curb cut used to be for the previous, the gas station that

[2:27:46] was there. Where is that in relation to the island, because the state and the town

[2:27:54] redid that intersection, right? So how was that set up?

[2:27:57] I was a little bit further a little bit further a little further there.

[2:28:04] You can see the island here. Here's the island. This is paint here.

[2:28:11] Okay, this is a painted island here and here. And this is an actual physical island

[2:28:15] with granite herb here. And this is the painting turning ways.

[2:28:20] This, the turn is the hair from the east.

[2:28:24] It would be a left turn in and from the west

[2:28:26] would just be a right turn in.

[2:28:28] Across the street here, you have the community center

[2:28:30] and the ball field where people park there.

[2:28:34] Across the street.

[2:28:36] So if you plan, can you go a couple of slides pass this one, please?

[2:28:43] Well, excuse me, so your plan is to have

[2:28:45] that as a full access left, right,

[2:28:50] Yes.

[2:28:51] Again, if the trips are fewer than the previous use, by 77% week, they're 73% we get.

[2:29:00] On a little too far, I'm sorry, back a little bit.

[2:29:02] I'm sorry.

[2:29:04] Good.

[2:29:04] That's perfect.

[2:29:08] This is, this is the erosion.

[2:29:11] You can set it in control.

[2:29:12] Thanks, boy.

[2:29:12] You can ask Tim about that.

[2:29:17] And then.

[2:29:20] I also had, I've been to the site many times during the planning of this in the survey.

[2:29:27] I don't know who laid out these lights with BJs in the corner of Adam Street here in Tom Turnpike,

[2:29:32] but they did an excellent job. There is plenty of opportunity to come out and make a left,

[2:29:39] but it's really a well laid out light pattern.

[2:29:44] Yeah, I don't believe that was a town project wasn't hot, Gary.

[2:29:50] Yeah, I think we got some wonderful engineers in town here.

[2:29:57] I hope they're listening to this.

[2:30:00] Yeah, nothing better to do on a Monday night at 9.30, then listen to us, babble. The only other question I have for you, and then I'll release you to everybody else. So this property is also known as a contaminated site, and so there are monitoring wells.

[2:30:19] I would love it if I saw the motion already, you're going to hand off. But if we can go through how those monitoring wells are going to be maintained, how are you going to keep access to those? Because if I've really

[2:30:30] Remember, right, there's a couple of, and there's essentially underneath what is now going to be pavement or building.

[2:30:36] One of them is located in the built-in side of the building.

[2:30:39] And it's located between, if we start by the waiting area here and the left, that would be bay one, then bay two, bay three.

[2:30:46] Located between bay two and bay three at the southern side of the building.

[2:30:54] The plan for that is we're going to be the physical cleanup of the site is complete, okay?

[2:31:02] The part that's left is the monitoring portion and we need to get correct me if I'm right.

[2:31:08] We need four quarters over two years correct of clean tests.

[2:31:15] The last two quarters and both quarters have come back clean, okay?

[2:31:19] So, our next test will be the third week, I'm sorry, the week of October 5th, where it sells

[2:31:25] with the next testing cycle.

[2:31:27] So, a test will be performed that week, we expect the results to be the same, and we have no

[2:31:33] indication that they won't be the same, so we expect them to be the same.

[2:31:38] That would then get us our third clean test, at that point the monitoring will be all three

[2:31:48] The part here, the one that's going to be in the building with the liner, the manufacturer

[2:31:53] makes a patch kit specifically for that, so what will happen is the whole foundation will

[2:32:00] be completed, okay, we'll be excavated, print, port, the footings port, the floor port,

[2:32:08] with a section approximately 2 by 2 gem, approximately 2 by 2 with that pipe, may

[2:32:14] and sticking out of it still, okay?

[2:32:17] We expect to be able to get that fourth clean test in January.

[2:32:21] Once we have that fourth clean test, then the environmental engineer can submit to

[2:32:26] deep for, I think it's just a closure of it.

[2:32:31] Yeah.

[2:32:31] For a closure letter, which we would expect to receive with the fourth clean test, and at

[2:32:37] that point, that well, that well can be removed, so we will remove that well and I plan

[2:32:42] and saw a new well, right in this area right here in this grass area, okay? So still have a

[2:32:51] monitoring well on site. I'd like to have one. It's good to have it. So that's the plan for that

[2:32:58] well. And then, like I said, they make that patch kit. I believe they've u asked about that earlier

[2:33:03] today and it's, you know, Jim Senate will provide that to David with how that patch is performed.

[2:33:16] Just a point of personal preference, please don't use laser pointers on that screen because

[2:33:22] they're reflex over here.

[2:33:24] Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't really notice.

[2:33:25] Didn't hit us this time, but it's happened before.

[2:33:28] Okay.

[2:33:28] My apologies.

[2:33:31] Yeah, if you use the pointer on the screen, like the arrow on your, oh, she has it.

[2:33:36] Yeah, if you still run out of what the point to, it's safe with my policies.

[2:33:42] And also, anybody watching out home can't see it either.

[2:33:49] Mr. Chairman, mayors, anything touch on their opinion?

[2:33:50] Yeah, if you do an intro and then go for it.

[2:33:53] Sure.

[2:33:53] Brendan Chan from Ship and Goa representing the applicant.

[2:33:57] I just want to clarify that the state's heat-up standard regulations require

[2:34:01] are four quarters of groundwater monitoring results

[2:34:04] that comply with the criteria of the two-year period.

[2:34:06] The purpose of the regulation is to come

[2:34:08] for seasonal variability in the groundwater monitoring wells.

[2:34:11] And the department prefers that monitoring wells

[2:34:15] not be taken out of the program

[2:34:17] and replace with other wells during that period.

[2:34:19] So the purpose of preserving the well in the building

[2:34:23] is to be continuing to compare, you know,

[2:34:25] like for like, through the course of the monitor.

[2:34:27] And then as Mr. Gallo indicated,

[2:34:29] Once that compliance monitoring, as it's called as complete, that well can you remove and replace with a new downgrading and monitoring, well, to be there, you know, if it's ever needed during the life of the use of property.

[2:34:41] Thank you.

[2:34:47] Okay.

[2:34:48] And then the only other question I have is, is I know a form of member here will always ask.

[2:34:55] Snow room, snow movement.

[2:34:58] I'm assuming, because you've got the large amount of green space on the Western edge, that's

[2:35:05] where it's all going to go, I'm assuming.

[2:35:07] I would.

[2:35:08] Thanks.

[2:35:08] Oh, yes.

[2:35:09] Got it.

[2:35:11] Any questions comments from anybody on the commission on this application?

[2:35:18] Yeah, Mr. Pearls.

[2:35:19] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[2:35:21] So you talked a little bit about secondary containment.

[2:35:24] So, I know when you're playing, you talk about 110% containment on any kind of storage vessel.

[2:35:32] So, is that exist on every type of tank that you have in the facility?

[2:35:36] On the new tanks we'll have that.

[2:35:38] Actually, every type of tank we'll have that, except for the waste oil tank.

[2:35:43] And the reason for the waste oil tank is the waste oil tank is a larger size tank.

[2:35:47] These double wall tanks at one point I didn't think I was going to be able to use because it couldn't source.

[2:35:52] So we found a source, Roth tanks, that we're going to use, but it's a 275 gallon tank.

[2:36:00] It's not big enough, as if we use as a waste of a tank.

[2:36:04] So we're going to use a steel tank in that scenario.

[2:36:18] So there is secondary containment as well, with the cradle, the sealed epoxy and the liner.

[2:36:24] So you're claiming the liner for the building as the secondary containment for that container?

[2:36:29] No, the seal the proxy floor is, is the, um, the line goes under the, under the, right, floor.

[2:36:36] So you're claiming the epoxy floor is secondary containment. Is that accurate? Yes, and correct.

[2:36:42] And the correct. Yes, it's a place that we're still dead. We're going to grab the chain to clarify, though,

[2:36:48] the way still tank, when I'll get double wall tank, all the other tanks will be double wall tanks.

[2:36:52] Right. Each of the tanks will be in a secondary containment cradle. Yes. And then,

[2:36:56] which is above the epoxy forward, which is above the liner.

[2:36:59] So, we'll have a secondary containment cradle,

[2:37:01] the epoxy forward and the liner.

[2:37:02] Right, so each of those cradles at the end,

[2:37:05] are they 110% capacity?

[2:37:07] Yes.

[2:37:08] Yes.

[2:37:08] There you are.

[2:37:09] Yes.

[2:37:11] Sorry, the confusion between the wall and secondary.

[2:37:13] Yeah, it's two different protections,

[2:37:15] but you're clearly in the report that you're a 110% secondary containment.

[2:37:20] Correct.

[2:37:21] Because again, double wall containers are great,

[2:37:23] but if you don't notice the first one,

[2:37:25] The first layer going and the second layer just goes on a night

[2:37:30] And then all of a sudden you flooded. The tanks actually have indicators and they will be regular inspections. Right.

[2:37:36] Right. Yeah. But it's, but that, that requires someone's seen. So if something happens to a double all container.

[2:37:43] I don't know how it could happen, but say theoretically, you were to break, then you'd have a spill.

[2:37:48] 110% containment is like if that tank ruptures and fails, you still have it with 10% despair. Right. So that's why I'm trying to just understand.

[2:37:58] if you actually do have a hundred ten percent secondary containment on all the

[2:38:03] best of the sounds like you do.

[2:38:04] Yes, we do.

[2:38:06] All right.

[2:38:06] I think that's it. So the waiting area for this is in the back side of the building

[2:38:12] kind of in between two of the bay doors. Is that right?

[2:38:16] Do you see where it says 25.33 in the top?

[2:38:19] Is it right in there?

[2:38:21] Yep. That's the waiting area.

[2:38:24] Right. So to enter that, so the cars are going to come down to the south part of the

[2:38:27] But people would step out of their cars while they're in the queue and then go in that door.

[2:38:34] The vehicle will enter here.

[2:38:38] See you around here.

[2:38:40] This is a subsurface.

[2:38:42] We'll be in Blaine's pull around.

[2:38:43] Pull up to the door.

[2:38:44] They get out.

[2:38:44] There's an entrance here.

[2:38:46] They walk in.

[2:38:47] Men's a woman's restaurant.

[2:38:49] A green area here.

[2:38:51] And then a wrap around.

[2:38:52] Waiting area.

[2:38:59] And then there's also an exit on the north side.

[2:39:02] building where they would meet their car, right?

[2:39:05] I can point they come out here.

[2:39:08] I'm sorry, but can you just stay by the microphone for the record and I can show, so where is it?

[2:39:15] A lot of rules up here.

[2:39:16] A lot of rules.

[2:39:21] Okay, you're just to go with the flow with these guys.

[2:39:23] Yeah, so just to summarize what you said, so they do pull around to the south side.

[2:39:27] They go through the south entrance door.

[2:39:29] They go on the way to the room, which is in kind of the northwest corner of the building.

[2:39:32] and then there's a door kind of in that northeast corner right there where they go out and meet their vehicle.

[2:39:38] So, okay.

[2:39:39] Five to six point three.

[2:39:40] And that seems to like to be the safest for pedestrians in the area.

[2:39:45] Based on the experience that you have at other auto-loop places.

[2:39:48] Correct.

[2:39:49] The site will fall very nicely.

[2:39:54] Okay.

[2:39:54] That's all I have.

[2:39:55] Thank you.

[2:40:03] I'm scrolling back up to where I can see when I'm looking out again.

[2:40:14] Okay.

[2:40:21] somebody telling me it's time to go.

[2:40:24] Or that there's a story.

[2:40:27] Yes.

[2:40:31] It might be the name or behind me, but it's nothing.

[2:40:34] OK, so dumpster is going to have an enclosure.

[2:40:40] Correct.

[2:40:41] And after towns, we get originally put a chain length fence

[2:40:43] with the slats in it.

[2:40:45] The towns request we change it to a white vinyl.

[2:40:48] OK.

[2:40:50] Is it a three-cider for side-type item?

[2:40:53] It's going to be three sides of the gates on the front.

[2:40:56] We'll still be chained length with the slats and put the vinyl.

[2:41:00] We'll be three sides of it.

[2:41:01] A vinyl gate just will not.

[2:41:03] Just won't hold up.

[2:41:06] Thanks.

[2:41:07] Thanks for guys, all right.

[2:41:09] Very gentle.

[2:41:13] Yeah.

[2:41:13] This is that the gates going in and out are the ones to take the abuse of the whole time.

[2:41:17] Okay.

[2:41:22] You know, three feet on those.

[2:41:32] On the items, I know there's a little bit of grading that you're going to do over

[2:41:36] the green area, removing a bunch of those cement, Jersey barriers that are all on there.

[2:41:43] Other than the Jersey barriers, which I figure is going to have to go off site.

[2:41:48] Any other soil or anything else going off site for this area is just going to

[2:41:52] grade and use that to complete the grade as you go.

[2:41:59] And we will be importing.

[2:42:00] We'll actually be bringing soil in.

[2:42:05] Best practice.

[2:42:06] And, et cetera.

[2:42:11] And I say, I do like the fact that you're going to revitalize and re-establish the green space

[2:42:17] in there and abutting the town land and the property in the corner very much appreciated

[2:42:24] on that.

[2:42:24] In the fact that we're also working on a much smaller retaining wall.

[2:42:31] And then all of the impervious pavement and roof flows is going to go into the detention

[2:42:43] as a little bit of cleaning, I'm assuming there's a separation, separators in there,

[2:42:53] and then overflow goes out into the town storm water on deep oak.

[2:43:01] Cancun with JR, who associates, where the siblings needed the drainage design, all the runoff from the roofs of the page, the development area will be collected, run through one of two hydrodynamic separators to be cleaned, then directed to the sub-surface area for detention, prior to discharge to the state system and deep upstream.

[2:43:22] Okay.

[2:43:30] And then, and then all the, I'm assuming all the regular grass is just going to

[2:43:34] perk and flow into that what would normally happen.

[2:43:38] Okay.

[2:43:38] And that will be irrigated the one over here. It would be an irrigation system as well.

[2:43:46] Any other questions out of the commission?

[2:43:52] Okay.

[2:43:52] Any comments from town staff?

[2:43:58] Mr. Chair, we have only minor and technical comments at this point regarding the

[2:44:05] application. Our engineering department has one comment having to do with just

[2:44:13] revising the plan to show this one view point, whatever that means. I'm not even sure.

[2:44:22] With regards to the voter connection. And then Mr. Lailupah had a question with regards to the monitoring

[2:44:29] well that is shown underneath the building, which I believe the applicant has answered that

[2:44:38] question and if you are satisfied with that answer, that's probably something that can be

[2:44:43] removed. I had sent an email today to Mr. Gala and the other members of his application team

[2:44:53] outlining those two outstanding comments, so they're aware and they know that should the commission proceed by approving.

[2:45:00] Sublication tonight, we expect planned divisions to address the engineering comment at this point.

[2:45:11] Okay.

[2:45:16] As part of our emails that we received as information for background, there was one email submitted for

[2:45:26] review for public comment. Was there anything else to be besides that one?

[2:45:31] Well, yes, in response to that.

[2:45:34] So there was a public comment that was submitted by Mr. Hase, which essentially had asked the commission to consider requiring that the applicant removes what Mr. Hase is concerning spoils, like the topsoil that is excavated as a part of this project.

[2:45:59] In, we had sent that comment to the commission, but we also, as is normal practice, send that comment to the applicant.

[2:46:08] In response to that, the applicant has provided a letter from Martin Brug Brug, who is licensed environmental practitioner.

[2:46:17] There we go, who had responded to that, so he's here, so he can, he can, I suppose, answer that.

[2:46:32] Those were the two correspondence that we received after, after I send the packet to you.

[2:46:41] All right.

[2:46:42] And for the record, again, we're going to run the chain,

[2:46:44] I'm sure we're going to go under at the end of the applicant.

[2:46:46] The letter we provide is from Bervie.

[2:46:48] Bervie is a licensed environmental professional.

[2:46:51] For those of you who are not familiar with licensed environmental professionals

[2:46:55] are experienced consultants regulated by independent board of examiners.

[2:47:00] It's subject to a set of rules of professional conduct.

[2:47:02] at 23A, 133B, 6D1 of the regulations of candidates and state agencies, I'd like to pull out

[2:47:11] one particular rule, which is that in rendering professional services, and I'll leave

[2:47:15] a few shot at all times, hold Panama. The human safety, I'm sorry, hold Panama, the health

[2:47:20] safety and welfare of the public and the environment. So this is a professional's health

[2:47:24] of a very high standard. Mr. Brogey's letter summarizes the remediation done on site,

[2:47:29] indicating that fluid of soil is removed and replaced with clean soil, and areas where we

[2:47:34] need to filter under the undergaraged tank program and by the property order, and states

[2:47:40] this conclusion that to remove that soil, that clean soil from the site, disposal, and

[2:47:48] unnecessary hardship on the developers and states that in this professional opinion, as

[2:47:52] it kind of get licensed environment on professional. There's no basis for the requests for

[2:48:00] So just very quickly, just on setting that foundation, if I remember right, I know at least in that, that tall and turnpike corner where the old tanks used to be, it was a little rocky in a little ledgy.

[2:48:18] Are you expecting to go, need to go into that in order to put the foundation down, and because I know you need to go a little bit further down,

[2:48:26] in order to accomplish the back-tubbing is the best word I can use.

[2:48:32] Yeah, I believe.

[2:48:35] So, again, Tim Kuhn, the chair of the Sun Associates,

[2:48:38] that if you look at our reading plan closely,

[2:48:40] you would compare the existing characters to the proposed building

[2:48:45] floor elevations and putting elevations.

[2:48:48] There is a little bit of cut, basically, on the north side of the building

[2:48:52] and on the south side, most everything is still.

[2:48:57] We're very shallow into the existing grade for the most part,

[2:49:01] for the foundation.

[2:49:02] Okay, Brother Shannon again, Mr. Rugby's letter in the case

[2:49:06] that in the areas that were remediated,

[2:49:08] excavations took it down to the bedrock,

[2:49:10] and then clean fill was placed from the bedrock

[2:49:11] to the current grade. Correct.

[2:49:13] Yeah, I read that.

[2:49:14] I just, again, it's half the time my questions are.

[2:49:18] It's public hearing, and I need somebody to say it out loud.

[2:49:24] Okay, so yeah, so per question answer that the vast majority of what you're going to need to move around for foundation is

[2:49:39] included in the clean fill that was put in as part of the remediation originally.

[2:49:43] Correct, okay.

[2:49:45] Thank you.

[2:49:46] That works for me.

[2:49:54] Anything else from you guys before I do public comment?

[2:49:57] I would just like to say that also I believe you received it in your packet but the economic development commission Gary did send the letter supporting this project.

[2:50:08] I hope please get that.

[2:50:09] Yeah, that was in the packet. Thank you.

[2:50:13] All right.

[2:50:16] If there was, I think I did call it once but I'll ask it again to make sure I get it.

[2:50:20] If there was anybody in the public who wished to speak to this application.

[2:50:35] Welcome back.

[2:50:39] I'm strongly opposed to the application.

[2:50:42] This is our drinking water source underneath

[2:50:45] stratified directly.

[2:50:47] We've dealt with the car wash and I think this is really

[2:50:52] outrageous that even the commission would consider

[2:50:55] an oil change facility that could actually introduce

[2:50:58] pollutants into our drinking water.

[2:51:01] And I think it's an injustice to the residents here

[2:51:05] town of Manchester. For the reason being several things, nothing is hoped for. This is a

[2:51:13] contamination source and portal change. So we talk about, yes, the building interior, all these

[2:51:21] safeguards are in place, but we don't talk about during fuel transfer, overfilling a storage

[2:51:29] host this connecting ruptures, improper gauging, looser missing connections, and we're going to have

[2:51:36] daily deliveries of oil. Then we have during transit vehicle rollovers, collisions, equipment,

[2:51:46] wear and tear. This is happening daily. They're going to be moving waste oil. They're going to be delivering oil.

[2:51:53] And why do we want to take this risk with our drinking water source?

[2:51:57] I really think it's an injustice to think of us.

[2:52:01] We spent money, we had, you mentioned, the safety improvements for this is like the worst

[2:52:08] intersection, a talent-term pipeline and an attitude.

[2:52:13] We applied for money, the town executed a wonderful project, included bike lanes, and

[2:52:20] islands, bus stops, and yet we are trying to introduce more traffic into this area, going

[2:52:27] into an oil change facility? I really...

[2:52:31] That's unbelievable. And then we have existing monitoring levels. We know there's contamination onsite now. We hope that it will be cleaned up. There's no guarantee. We have two quarters of monitoring. We don't know what the next quarters will be. So, it hasn't been verified. It hasn't been closed. But yet, this commission wants to entertain an oil chain facility. I'll rent it by this. I really am truly outraged.

[2:53:00] And I was truly outraged by the approval of the act of protection, registration, very, if there was a public hearing, I would have been here and would have been here with others, but unfortunately there was no public hearing with that registration or renewal.

[2:53:18] I think you really need to consider that this is our drinking water. You can't get it back once it's contaminated. You have to then you'll have more remediation.

[2:53:28] Nothing is full-proof, the applicant may, you know, you know, all these safeguards, but nothing is full-proof.

[2:53:35] I just named all these things and the fact that we're going to have, I think the traffic estimates are low.

[2:53:41] This has been the business intersection.

[2:53:43] That's why we need a traffic reduction program that was put into place.

[2:53:49] And it's still very busy. And now we're going to be having left-handed,

[2:53:53] the coming from the left plane, but that would be west, westbound, and then we have eastbound.

[2:53:59] I'm strongly opposed, and I'm outraged that it has gotten this far.

[2:54:04] Those are my comments.

[2:54:05] Do you have any questions for me?

[2:54:06] I'll be happy to answer.

[2:54:19] Mr. Pros.

[2:54:21] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[2:54:22] I had a question for staff.

[2:54:25] So when we were, there was a proposal for a car wash at this location, and a

[2:54:33] staff brought up a lot of concerns about the fact that it's in the aquifer protection agency.

[2:54:39] It's the aquifer protection area.

[2:54:43] But I don't see that type of concern for this application.

[2:54:46] Is there something fundamentally different about this use that we're not as concerned about impacts the aquifer?

[2:54:54] So the largest concern for the car wash was 100% containment of the water coming off of the car,

[2:55:06] basically, the concern was, so the car wash application was trying to, is an application not to become a registered facility,

[2:55:18] but become identified, recognized as a facility not needing to be registered. So within the

[2:55:29] aquifer regulations, if a car wash contains the wastewater from the facility into

[2:55:40] the system, the town system, then it doesn't have to be registered. The concern that was raised

[2:55:47] by this commission was that there was not 100% capture

[2:55:50] of the water coming off the cars,

[2:55:53] so that it didn't qualify to be exempt from registration.

[2:55:59] And there was no discussion about a late registration

[2:56:01] in that instance, because it was understood

[2:56:04] that that was not an option.

[2:56:09] I think that clarifies what I was trying to remember.

[2:56:14] I think it was the fact that they were claiming

[2:56:17] that there would be no process water that would remain on the vehicle as it left, and therefore

[2:56:25] wouldn't get into storm water drains.

[2:56:27] So I think what is different in this situation is that an oil change you should be putting

[2:56:32] in the oil cap, and there shouldn't be any tripping oil as the car leaves the bay, is that correct?

[2:56:41] Is that the difference between these two applications?

[2:56:44] Yeah, that's essentially the difference that the concern about the car wash was dripage coming

[2:56:49] But cars back a pickup trucks that have the water within that are spilling out and then in an oil change operation

[2:56:57] There should be no dripage if it's done correctly.

[2:57:02] Like you said, putting the cap on the oil tank.

[2:57:08] And because the this proposal is within the building, if there are if there is dripage during the process,

[2:57:17] It should be contained within the building

[2:57:23] I think I think I don't I don't know that we talk too much about stormwater management

[2:57:28] With the applicant, but that might be something to just

[2:57:33] Re-clarify about what type of protections exist in that system

[2:57:37] That would be something I'd be interested in hearing more about in public hearing

[2:57:54] one of two hydrodynamic separators, these hydrodynamic separators,

[2:57:59] remove total suspended solids, which is what most of your contaminants are here to.

[2:58:04] I believe based on the very small flow rates and the size of these structures, both of them approach.

[2:58:13] I believe between 98 and 99% removal of total suspended solids,

[2:58:18] They will also be equipped with absorbents to take out the oil and floatables and floatable oils that may or may not come out into the parking lot from cars or other vehicles there.

[2:58:33] So all that that provides the treatment and then from there it goes into the detention which is a solid system.

[2:58:42] There's no infiltration through this system, so there's no, no, we charge to the groundwater if you will because we know that this site is sensitive

[2:58:52] when we got for protection area, and it's just connected to the stormwater down in the deep ocean.

[2:58:59] Sorry, could you show on the site?

[2:59:03] Maybe just have or not a point to where the catch basins are and where the 200 dynamic separators would be.

[2:59:09] the actual catch patients act, they are hydrodynamic separators within this.

[2:59:14] Okay, so there's just two.

[2:59:15] Just the two.

[2:59:17] There's the only catch basins on site.

[2:59:19] Yep.

[2:59:20] Okay.

[2:59:20] And they collect all the water.

[2:59:26] Where are those at?

[2:59:27] So here.

[2:59:30] And on the five and on the seven.

[2:59:34] All right.

[2:59:34] Thank you.

[2:59:38] And then one other clarification for Mr. Gallo.

[2:59:42] If you click very quickly.

[2:59:44] Any at all work is all the way inside the building, all right.

[2:59:50] Not, can you put the floor plan?

[2:59:53] Um, just,

[2:59:55] uh, curiosity.

[2:59:56] Where is, where would the,

[3:00:00] Any of the tanks, because our floor plane that we have, is the working level floor plan, so I don't have anything about where your storage is, or where when you're receiving on the fill, I don't think that's actually listed, I didn't see it listed on any of the plans that I have in front of me.

[3:00:20] Okay.

[3:00:26] It's coming.

[3:00:26] I asked for floor plane rope.

[3:00:29] Right there.

[3:00:29] It's beautiful.

[3:00:33] Pretty sick.

[3:00:33] We beneath that waiting area.

[3:00:35] Where you were there?

[3:00:37] That's the exact footprint of the basement, as well as the upstairs.

[3:00:41] So that area beneath the waiting area is where the tanks will be.

[3:00:47] So all the fill points.

[3:00:49] So when they come to fill a tank, they go to the tank and fill it in the basement in the cradle.

[3:00:53] Okay, it's no fill outside, so there's a much lower chance of a spill by the customer receiving a home heating oil delivery, a gas station being refilled, anything along those lines.

[3:01:08] Everything is filled in the basement at the tank.

[3:01:11] That's very important.

[3:01:12] Okay, so you're going to run a line into one of the bays and over to a tank or a fill and then sort of the same way for the waste collection.

[3:01:22] the same time. They run a line down in there, it hooks up, and it's a back and it

[3:01:27] backs the oil out. I suppose I didn't see anything on the

[3:01:33] histories. On the general rules with deliveries, they're about every two weeks.

[3:01:39] Distributors don't want to come every week to a site. So it's about every two

[3:01:43] weeks. Again, all the connections are inside the building. This is a very low-use

[3:01:50] traffic for this site.

[3:01:54] I really, I can't think of anything that would be lower use

[3:01:57] to be quite honest with you, and still be

[3:02:05] feasible there.

[3:02:06] I mean, 50 to 60 vehicles a day is a pretty low use

[3:02:09] for retail site and a commercial corridor.

[3:02:16] Thank you.

[3:02:17] Yeah, yeah, no, that didn't, I just realized

[3:02:20] that I didn't know where that information was going to be.

[3:02:23] So, okay, I'll set

[3:02:31] any last minute that's from commission.

[3:02:37] Here you know, Mr. Kennedy.

[3:02:39] Make a motion, close the public hearing.

[3:02:45] Okay, I have a motion from Mr. Kennedy a second from Mr.

[3:02:49] Process to close the public hearing.

[3:03:02] A couple years in, I'll get this process down pretty well.

[3:03:06] Anyway, all those in favor of closing the public hearing

[3:03:15] for EOC development for the,

[3:03:25] I'm trying to read notes and I put my, again, under me, your testimony letters.

[3:03:35] Okay. All those in favor of closing the third public hearing tonight for EOC development,

[3:03:40] special exception PSE60-2026.

[3:03:44] Hi.

[3:03:45] Hi.

[3:03:47] I mean, it is.

[3:03:49] And it stains the chair of both sides.

[3:03:51] You know, on this public hearing, it is closed.

[3:03:54] Thank you.

[3:03:55] Would the body for help and get us to this point?

[3:03:58] Mr. Chair.

[3:04:00] Mr. Proves.

[3:04:01] Yeah.

[3:04:02] I propose a five-minute recess.

[3:04:05] More than half of it.

[3:04:10] And he's actually doing it.

[3:04:11] No.

[3:04:11] I can do so.

[3:04:12] Yeah.

[3:04:12] Yeah, five minute recesses, so we'll come back here at 10 o'clock.

[3:04:19] Thank you everybody.

[3:06:33] So I'm still going to set you on the job offer to go to chat with the public.

[3:06:40] I don't know what I was saying to you.

[3:06:46] I know, wow.

[3:06:47] You know, my daughter.

[3:06:49] My daughter was going to say a letter.

[3:06:51] You know, my daughter didn't get her license until, uh, I think we're going to do this here.

[3:06:55] And you like, you know.

[3:06:57] It's not at some point what was she was going to do.

[3:06:59] She was going to do it.

[3:07:00] She was going to do it.

[3:07:01] or maybe the main college masters,

[3:07:04] which she waited quite a while,

[3:07:06] she knows that I'm so interested in it.

[3:07:07] Why do you see?

[3:07:09] You can wait until you get a dirty mirror up there.

[3:07:13] I'll let you see.

[3:07:14] I'm on it.

[3:07:14] Can you pass that to this person?

[3:07:39] .

[3:07:41] .

[3:08:31] I think everybody,

[3:08:45] thanks for letting us take that quick break. Hopefully we'll get out of here, so that nobody has to worry about the suspension rules.

[3:09:00] on the agenda items one and nine and two are still in public areas so we are not going to address those.

[3:09:06] Item number three for new business is the public area that we just completed for EEC development.

[3:09:12] This is a special exception under Article 2, Section 4.2 and erosion and sedimentation control plan.

[3:09:19] But the construction of a three bay quick loop and the emissions testing facility and associated

[3:09:26] its second performance at 1076 and 1082 tall and turn bike in 15D boat.

[3:09:32] This is for special exception, 60-2026, which was the public hearing, and then we also have,

[3:09:40] as part of that, we have the erosion sedimentation control plan, 32-2026.

[3:09:46] Mr. Kennedy.

[3:09:48] For EOC development, 1076 and 1082 talent turn plank in 15 depot streets, special exceptions,

[3:09:55] 60 dash, 2026.

[3:09:57] Make a motion you approve special exception on Article 2, Section 4.2, but construction

[3:10:02] through the three bay, quick little bit of emissions, testing, facility, and all associated

[3:10:06] site improvements in 1076, and 1082 talent turn plank in 15 depot streets with the condition

[3:10:13] And as the engineering comment is specified in the statement, we're ending up from Rinal

[3:10:21] of Rotality, Deputy Planning Director, dated September 21st, 206, reasonably purbulous

[3:10:26] for both activities, especially in our section right here in our section 18.10.3.

[3:10:34] Okay.

[3:10:34] The motion is read by Mr. Kennedy and the second from Mr. Krauss.

[3:10:40] for the special exception, 60, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20.

[3:10:46] Discussion.

[3:10:50] Anyway, I think,

[3:10:55] firstly, I think the reduction of the retaining law from A to 9,

[3:11:01] if he'd done to three, he could say major improvement on ideas from here.

[3:11:07] Applicant, he had this a very clean and solid answer to the monitoring laws, because this

[3:11:13] is a known contaminated site.

[3:11:19] It has a history with this commission, so I think that the additional better from

[3:11:25] and incorporated in their professional staff, as well as the clear outline of how to address that.

[3:11:35] It's been a very good, I like that other word.

[3:11:41] I'm not 100%

[3:11:46] satisfied on the traffic, but they did show the traffic count,

[3:11:53] plus the proximity and the fact that it is on far

[3:11:58] is an edge of a probably four time turn,

[3:12:02] and it does get it passed away.

[3:12:04] It's traditionally the queue going into the intersection,

[3:12:07] and it's well passed the bus stop,

[3:12:12] which does create a line size as you when the bus does come through,

[3:12:15] but I think that location is functional.

[3:12:20] So

[3:12:24] there's a question in my go ahead and as Mr. Crosst asked, and was answered, the 110%

[3:12:33] containment wells, tops on any of the storage tanks in the basement with the direct hose

[3:12:44] line to connect for the fill and the removal.

[3:12:48] I think that that can be done to decent job on addressing the concerns of any possible further

[3:12:59] contamination of the scenario, I think by and large, you're meeting the needs of the special

[3:13:11] exception for that. I do like the AR protection. It's not a big square.

[3:13:17] It's a center block box that does have some texture.

[3:13:23] The blue line is a nice touch.

[3:13:31] As much as it's the other comment, alluded to the

[3:13:39] overall protection,

[3:13:40] is a separate item, personally denied agree with it, but we are here now, and I think based

[3:13:48] on the application, I'm not finding a large item that we can use as a to say anything,

[3:14:00] and it needs the requirements of the special exception, but any other discussion coming from

[3:14:06] the folks on the commission of this request?

[3:14:08] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[3:14:11] I think it's a difficult site to have a use on obviously there's been lots of due diligence done for remediation of a penetration into the ground by contaminants and there's lots of environmental protections that are being put in place for this type of use, lots of redundancy.

[3:14:35] So, I feel good that there's potential for this to work out well, you know, these are human beings, though, and this might not be, you know, the same company that owns this in five or ten years and you may be.

[3:14:51] I think you have to consider that when you're looking at this type of use in the area is that, you know, just because we have an experienced applicant.

[3:15:00] We want to do it the right way, doesn't mean that once they move on to something else, the next, the next owner won't have the same due diligence and not follow all the rules that are in place, but I think that, you know, with the, with, with this type of use that there's usually a lot of eyes on it and hopefully this being in the acquisition zone, well, we'll raise enough scrutiny by people to make sure that things are done right.

[3:15:27] I'm also concerned about the traffic in the area and I know the traffic reports said that

[3:15:31] there had been 18 accidents in the last three years in between Brooklyn Street and

[3:15:36] intersection in the BJA's entrance. That's a lot and now we're expecting more people to

[3:15:40] make left and right hand turns and cross the going across potentially four lanes of traffic

[3:15:45] if they want to go north on Brooklyn Street. So I think this site organization, the site layout

[3:15:51] isn't great for traffic flow.

[3:15:55] But again, compared to what other uses could be there, usually, well, change of

[3:16:00] appointments take, you know, 5, 10, 15 minutes.

[3:16:05] So I don't expect there to be a large flow of cars going in and out, you figure there's

[3:16:11] just a car leaving every few minutes.

[3:16:14] They should have time and not a lot of pressure to pull out speedily.

[3:16:17] So it's not an ideal site, I feel like this applicant has shown that they're doing everything the right way and that if things are done correctly, then it can be successful and safe operation.

[3:16:35] Thank you, Mr. Pros.

[3:16:39] I'm just, again, I noticed my light was red during my little monologue, so I'm hoping it was caught by somebody else's microphone.

[3:16:52] But I think, as Mr. Russell alluded, that there's due diligence in there, but also because

[3:16:58] we are, you are now under the rules and the auspices of the aquifer protection, plus

[3:17:04] anything that deep would put on you for operating this type of establishment.

[3:17:11] You know, due diligence says that you have a lot of people watching, you know, it'd be

[3:17:17] nice to have that property functioning again, you know, and, you know, in improvements, it also raises a little bit of extra taxes on the business side, which is nice for the mill rate, especially if we grow the business side, you know, the residential side gets to go down just a touch.

[3:17:43] So, I think overall

[3:17:50] it's in a decent place,

[3:17:53] but it is a tough spot, but it's the nature of a growing town.

[3:18:02] Any last minute?

[3:18:04] So, all those, we have a motion and a second on the table, so for the special exception

[3:18:12] PSE-60-2026 as read into the record, all those in favor.

[3:18:19] Aye, aye.

[3:18:23] Any nays?

[3:18:24] Nay.

[3:18:26] Any abstains?

[3:18:28] The chairs and I, because we are split between here and online, I will do a verbal roll call.

[3:18:35] And as tradition holds for me, I will go off the online first in order where you are on my list right now.

[3:18:45] So, Ms. Brewer, Ms. Brewer is a nay.

[3:18:52] Ms. Larson, Ms. Larson is an I, Ms. Sassan,

[3:19:00] I, Ms. Van Buren, I, Mr.

[3:19:21] The next item is the original sedimentation control plan, 32, 20, 26.

[3:19:38] For EOC development, 1076 and 1082 tall and turn biking 15 depost street, erosion sedimentation

[3:19:46] control plan, 32-2026, summit commotion to certify the erosion sedimentation control plan for

[3:19:53] construction of a three bay quick-loop and emission testing facility in all associated

[3:19:57] site improvements at 1076 and 1082 tall and turn biking 15 depost street.

[3:20:10] The motion from Mr. Kennedy and a second from Mr. Prouse on

[3:20:15] Rogin's sedimentation control plan ESC-32-2026.

[3:20:20] Any further discussion?

[3:20:28] I wasn't touched very deeply on the public hearing, but the plans

[3:20:39] as presented are fairly straightforward, much easier to deal with than

[3:20:44] previous applications on here and that we don't have a very large

[3:20:49] retaining law to put in, we have silt fence around the stockpile and on the edges of the property as needed.

[3:21:00] I mean, Mr. Leop was going to be visible in present as we go through.

[3:21:07] So it meets requirements and needs for the property.

[3:21:11] Any other discussion?

[3:21:12] Okay,

[3:21:16] so for a rehearsal set of meditation control plan ESC 32 2026 for the motion as read in all those in favor.

[3:21:23] Aye aye.

[3:21:25] Any nays?

[3:21:27] Any abstains?

[3:21:30] Any other chair votes aye?

[3:21:31] Because we are split.

[3:21:32] We will do a roll call again

[3:21:39] in order.

[3:21:42] Ms. Brewer.

[3:21:43] Ms. Brewer is a nay.

[3:21:46] Ms. Larson.

[3:21:48] I is an I, Ms. Van Viren, I is an I, Ms. Sassan, I, is an I, okay. In the building, Mr.

[3:22:01] Prouse, I, is an I, Mr. Kennedy, I, is an I, is an I, the chair is also an I, so we are

[3:22:12] 7 to 1 in favor.

[3:22:14] There is a 7-intention control plan.

[3:22:16] ESC 32, 20, 26 passes.

[3:22:19] Thank you, everybody.

[3:22:21] Thank you, guys.

[3:22:23] Thank you so much.

[3:22:24] Thank you.

[3:22:25] I get this off.

[3:22:26] That's.

[3:22:27] Next item.

[3:22:28] A ton of Manchester 8.

[3:22:30] 24 referral for 32 Main Street mandatory referral 622626.

[3:22:37] Mr. Anderson? Yes, sir. Thank you. Good evening.

[3:22:41] It's not me if you've heard this one before, but this is an A24 referral for the purchasing sale property.

[3:22:46] In this case, selling property at 32 Main Street.

[3:22:52] This is 32 Main Street. It's a former firehouse owned by the eighth district for many decades.

[3:23:01] The town took this property on when the eighth district was dissolved in 2023.

[3:23:11] It's a 0.18 acre property, it's zone industrial currently, it's been vacant, it has been

[3:23:17] vacant for a long period of time.

[3:23:19] As I mentioned, it served as a fire station for the eighth district, and it was referred

[3:23:24] to the Board of Directors' repurposing committee in, well, after 2023 after the town purchased

[3:23:30] that we sent out an RFP for proposals for the property. We had one respondent who is the individual

[3:23:43] or the family that the town is looking to sell the property to. And for some reason, I'm not sure.

[3:23:51] there it is, okay. So we received one response from local family or resident, the Firestone

[3:24:01] family actually, the name you may recognize from other businesses in town.

[3:24:08] The gentleman,

[3:24:09] that Firestone actually is a niche manufacturer of hot rod components and install those,

[3:24:15] creates those manufacturers them in a very, you know, small, small space and then install them

[3:24:23] on cars. So this is sort of a niche auto-related manufacturing use, which, again, that's

[3:24:30] not what we're talking about tonight, but just to give you more information about the proposal

[3:24:34] for the site. Some of the pluses I think for the property are the new owner promises to keep this

[3:24:43] work exterior the building.

[3:24:47] He has promised to include support for local events, such as

[3:24:52] the Peach Festival, such as Christmas tree sails and things like that that occur in that

[3:24:59] area of town. This is on the corner of Hilliard and Maine. If you're familiar with that.

[3:25:11] And

[3:25:11] a thematic kind of display, both inside and outside of this store facility.

[3:25:23] We're a little bit ahead of where we usually are on these things, the board of directors

[3:25:25] is actually already authorized to purchase, or they're going to start the sale of the property

[3:25:31] in August, pending, of course, the report by the Planning and his own commission.

[3:25:36] And as with any purchase or sale of town property, that's why we're here for a report from you all to the Board of Directors.

[3:25:46] If you have any questions and I'd be to answer those.

[3:25:52] Does the building actually have a historic destination to it?

[3:25:55] This is not actually an honor.

[3:25:57] This is an honor system to preserve.

[3:26:00] I'd say more of the second.

[3:26:03] It's not part of the Union Village Historic District.

[3:26:05] It's actually to the south of that, and it's not named as an individual property.

[3:26:10] But obviously there are pieces of denorethen that were lost, you know, unfortunately due to urban renewal,

[3:26:16] and there are some, you know, I'd say lower case H historic buildings there.

[3:26:23] This is one of those that, you know, has memories attached to it.

[3:26:27] I think that are important for folks that were involved in the eighth district.

[3:26:31] and Mr. Firestone actually was heavily involved in a district fire company, so that's kind

[3:26:40] of a neat connection. That will carry on.

[3:26:49] Okay. Mr. Kennedy.

[3:26:52] So for a tax-24 mandatory referral 6-2026 proposed sale of 32 main street, I'll move to issue

[3:27:02] favorable report regarding the proposed sale of 32 main street.

[3:27:07] Reason for the approval is the Board of Directors Building Repurposing Task Force identified

[3:27:11] the property as one that would better serve the community of the private ownership.

[3:27:15] Sales property is generally consistent with the goals and objectives of Manchester next.

[3:27:23] Thank you.

[3:27:24] Motion from the Security and Second from Mr. Prophecy.

[3:27:27] Mr. Prophecy, I think we move quickly.

[3:27:28] I know you had your light on as a call.

[3:27:30] It's kind of you.

[3:27:31] I'll set.

[3:27:32] I think I'm okay.

[3:27:34] You know, funny, silly story, so when I first moved into town, I did the Manchester government

[3:27:41] academy.

[3:27:43] So they say, hey, you're going to go to the firehouse over on the Main Street.

[3:27:46] Uh-oh.

[3:27:47] Guess which hat firehouse I went to.

[3:27:51] Luckily, I knew it was over that last time.

[3:27:54] I didn't go in.

[3:27:55] It was just like, dude.

[3:27:56] It's empty.

[3:27:57] And then, oh yeah, there's the firehouse down the street right around the corner, which is where

[3:28:00] we ended up building, but everybody's got a story.

[3:28:07] All right, so we have a motion in a second, a motion from Mr. Kennedy, a second from Mr.

[3:28:11] Prouse, through approve the mandatory referral six test 2026 for the sale of 32 main.

[3:28:19] Any last minute discussion?

[3:28:21] Okay, all those in favor?

[3:28:23] Aye.

[3:28:24] Aye.

[3:28:25] Any nays?

[3:28:27] Any abstains?

[3:28:28] chair votes aye.

[3:28:30] Item passes unanimous eight to nothing.

[3:28:33] All right.

[3:28:35] Administrative reports.

[3:28:36] I think I will ask Mr. Liu to start because his report is more exciting than that.

[3:28:45] Well, I will leave a judge.

[3:28:46] I'll speak to what you're talking about.

[3:28:50] So I just have an update on the two citations that were issued.

[3:28:53] those did go out. We received the receipt for one of them, not the second one yet. I don't

[3:29:01] don't remember which ones. I did go to both sites. Both catchbacens were cleaned. They're

[3:29:11] not perfect, but it looks like they did some work. The 947 Center Street, they moved the oil

[3:29:19] We're skeptical away from the catch basin.

[3:29:21] It's somewhere else in the parking lot now.

[3:29:24] They still have work to do, but they're working towards it.

[3:29:30] I think that's all I had.

[3:29:32] Was there anything else you were thinking of?

[3:29:33] No, that's a cash for cash for extra cash.

[3:29:36] That's a cash for extra cash for extra cash for extra cash.

[3:29:38] Again, that's a slick show of care.

[3:29:40] The percade, so the three 24-brose treat, the percade there was a slight

[3:29:49] administrative plan modification that was approved by the Director of Planning and Chair of the Planning Commission.

[3:29:56] They needed to relocate the water, sir.

[3:30:00] The slide, Gary, probably can speak more to that, but it had to do with some complications that

[3:30:09] arose between the developer and their ability to access the property next door, the theater

[3:30:17] property. So they had to effectively revise plans to essentially avoid having to access that property.

[3:30:29] The question that was asked at the last meeting by Commissioner Aik, with regards to that

[3:30:38] in the letter on screening, whether or not that was eligible, I reached out to deep.

[3:30:43] I just found out today otherwise I would let you know sooner, it was not eligible.

[3:30:47] So the training that we sent around the last time to you, that was in person,

[3:30:54] And it's not eligible for those men's duty credits.

[3:31:00] It's not a bit before you move.

[3:31:01] It counts for regular training for us.

[3:31:04] It counts for others.

[3:31:06] It counts for five hours that we normally need to get it.

[3:31:08] Yes.

[3:31:08] It can count over planning and zoning hours.

[3:31:12] It just does not count tours in one metrones.

[3:31:15] That the additional piece that was required.

[3:31:17] Yes.

[3:31:17] Thank you.

[3:31:20] And the last thing is I would like to remind commissioners that there is a special meeting schedule for September 30, which is next Wednesday.

[3:31:34] This is going to be a public hearing on the zoning regulation amendment as I don't really know which step of the comprehensive regulation amendment update,

[3:31:46] but it is to review and perhaps approve regulation of these to the parking design overlay

[3:31:55] districts, floods own, signage, and there will be a map amendment that's affiliated or associated

[3:32:02] with the design overlay or regulation amendment. So that is all that I have.

[3:32:11] That's Wednesday, September 3rd, correct?

[3:32:14] Okay.

[3:32:16] At 7 p.m.

[3:32:22] Okay.

[3:32:27] I'll look outside.

[3:32:29] Okay.

[3:32:30] Next item.

[3:32:31] Resume the new applications.

[3:32:33] We are not going to receive any new applications tonight.

[3:32:36] September 30.

[3:32:38] I just went over the regulation amendments and the map amendments.

[3:32:42] That is the special meeting coming up.

[3:32:44] And then on October 5th, the Adelbrook school, they were originally scheduled for tonight.

[3:32:53] But after I talk to them about the other two applications, they opted to wait until October

[3:32:59] 5th, which is why they're on schedule for October 5th meeting. And then there is an in-law

[3:33:06] That one's determinational significance application for 672

[3:33:11] Vernon's state.

[3:33:13] This is a residential application.

[3:33:16] They essentially want to do a lot of line adjustment,

[3:33:22] but they need to first get the VAT1 experiment.

[3:33:24] Look where they can do that.

[3:33:25] To install a motor line.

[3:33:28] That's what we have so far.

[3:33:34] OK.

[3:33:35] Last item for the night, any items for future agendas.

[3:33:40] Here, nothing. All right, Mr. Kennedy.

[3:33:43] Move to adjourn.

[3:33:47] There we go.

[3:33:49] Move to the second.

[3:33:50] Mr. Kennedy's second from Mrs. Zeke.

[3:33:51] All those in favor to adjourn September 21,

[3:33:56] edition of Manchester Planning Zoning Commission.

[3:33:59] Hi.

[3:34:00] All right, I didn't hear any of these.

[3:34:03] Chair votes aye.

[3:34:04] We are adjourned.

[3:34:05] Thank you, everybody.

[3:34:06] Thank you, Nancy.

[3:34:07] Thank you, everybody, online.

[3:34:10] Thank you.

[3:34:11] Thank you.

[3:34:12] Welcome.

[3:34:14] Here we are.

[3:34:15] Welcome.

[3:34:21] Recording stopped.

[3:34:28] There is a lot of the key search that goes in.

[3:34:32] There is just a little bit on my side.

[3:34:35] There is a lot of key search that goes in.

[3:34:36] There is just a little bit on my side.

[3:34:37] There is a lot of key search.

[3:34:39] Yeah.

[3:34:40] Yeah.

[3:34:41] We accept a lot of the 30.

[3:34:44] Uh, I know.

[3:34:45] Best shot.

[3:34:46] I just want to tell you.

[3:34:49] And you don't want it, because it's all that doesn't stop the clock early, and nobody is like,

[3:34:55] being like, they are not going to be right in time.

[3:35:00] I don't know what the clock is.

[3:35:02] Yeah.

[3:35:03] Oh, you're not going to be interested in the clock.

[3:35:06] I don't know.

[3:35:07] I don't know.

[3:35:08] Yeah.

[3:35:11] That's the light, right?

[3:35:12] Yeah.

[3:35:14] It's interesting.

[3:35:15] The only thing you may worry about is I.

[3:35:17] And I just remember, yeah, and I don't watch me.

[3:35:22] Yeah, I watch like a bunch of me,

[3:35:26] because in all those hearings and like the sub-dimension,

[3:35:30] considered and discussed and published,

[3:35:33] how much time they spent on all that.

[3:35:35] Like there was a bunch of workshops.

[3:35:38] Although, after that went in,

[3:35:42] and failed in finish.

[3:36:46] Can they talk to you about your business again?

[3:36:51] Does anybody find anything else?

[3:36:55] Yeah, what do you want maybe?

[3:37:00] Yeah, I don't

[3:37:16] know.

[3:37:17] I don't know what to find at the point.

[3:37:20] Well, the computer is playing.

[3:37:21] We're looking at the wall.

[3:37:23] I would not.

[3:37:25] Yeah.

[3:37:26] You don't have to look for that.

[3:37:27] I would have to look back and clear it.

[3:37:29] So I'd look back and clear it.

[3:37:30] I'm sorry, I don't know what this is. Well, you know, nothing was did you see together? Yes. The Advisory Charres, I did ignore data.

[3:37:41] I thought like they should be doing the saying exactly. Oh and then and, and, and basically, this following, what you wrote was, and, and, and, and Bert Cohen from the area to the end.

[3:37:52] Sundance? We'll be back in a minute. Oh, that's brilliant.

[3:38:07] I don't know about this new, I don't know that it was going to be like this now.

[3:38:14] She's a little,

[3:38:18] she doesn't have the experience, it's like Chris, it's hot in there.

[3:38:23] Well, that's why she's got home.

[3:38:25] Yeah, baby.

[3:38:26] She's got home.

[3:38:27] She's got home.

[3:38:28] She's got home.

[3:38:29] She's got home.

MTG-PZC-2026-09-21

Transcript