[0:00] By the way, sir,

[0:01] » Jack Wismack.

[0:02] » Jack, what?

[0:03] » Was

[0:05] you from around here at all or you?

[0:07] » I I uh grew up in Jaffrey. Okay. I live

[0:11] in Walpole now.

[0:12] » Yeah. Walpole. Nice little town. I like

[0:15] it.

[0:15] » Yep.

[0:15] » Yeah.

[0:16] » Been over that way many times. So, you

[0:17] got a little experience in this? I'm

[0:19] going to guess.

[0:19] » Um just 30 or 40 years ago.

[0:23] » Well, how'd you guys find him? Was he

[0:25] looking for work?

[0:26] » Yeah. No, we went through municipal

[0:28] resources.

[0:29] » Okay. Yeah. And extension this way.

[0:30] » Yeah. Yeah. And we're happy Jack

[0:33] answered the call.

[0:34] » Yeah. Awesome.

[0:34] » I ran county government for 17 years. 17

[0:38] and a half years.

[0:39] » And uh I've been the interim town uh

[0:43] » Administrator in um Enfield, Kanan

[0:47] twice, uh Hinsdale.

[0:49] » So something you do when you have a good

[0:50] resume. But

[0:51] » Meredith and I was a city manager in

[0:53] Lebanon.

[0:54] » So good deal.

[0:55] » This is what I do.

[0:56] » Sounds like you guys did all right.

[0:59] He's helping us out.

[1:00] » Yeah. Awesome. That's good.

[1:01] » Well, this afternoon, we're happy Jay

[1:03] Hopkins has agreed to come and do the

[1:06] invocation.

[1:06] » Absolutely. I'll do that. Lord, we do

[1:08] thank you for these gentlemen that are

[1:09] willing to step forward and serve in the

[1:12] capacity that they are, Lord. And

[1:13] heavenly father, I pray you would give

[1:15] them wisdom, Lord. Help them to have

[1:17] discernment, Lord, and that they would

[1:18] make decisions that would honor and

[1:20] glorify and please you especially, Lord.

[1:22] Lord, we just u thank you again that

[1:24] they've stepped up to do this and ask

[1:26] that you would give them um just

[1:28] direction and guidance whether it's

[1:30] doing the town's business or in their

[1:32] own personal lives, Lord.

[1:33] » Lord, we thank you for this time. We

[1:34] thank you for your goodness and grace,

[1:36] Lord. And we pray these things in Jesus

[1:38] name. Amen.

[1:38] » Amen.

[1:39] » Amen.

[1:40] » Thank you.

[1:41] » Yes.

[1:41] » Yeah.

[1:42] » Gentlemen, see you.

[1:43] » You have a good evening.

[1:44] » Take care.

[1:45] » You got a dough agenda tonight. We

[1:47] » No, this is just what I said. We're just

[1:50] trying discussion. If you want to hang

[1:52] out and give us some points,

[1:53] » I'm going to a Bible study. I got to be

[1:55] there for six. So,

[1:56] » There you go.

[1:57] » All right.

[1:57] » All right, guys. Take care.

[1:58] » Have a good evening.

[1:59] » See you.

[2:05] » All right.

[2:17] get paid enough.

[2:19] » That's a different

[2:22] clock.

[3:26] interview.

[3:27] I'll probably have them wait in

[3:32] so that if we're live streaming, I don't

[3:34] want them in the in the crowd here

[3:36] because

[3:38] They're currently employed.

[3:41] » Keep it confidential until

[3:44] » Okay. So, we

[3:47] » Yeah. So, then I'll probably just text

[3:48] them and

[3:50] » Yeah.

[3:51] » And

[3:53] then I'll let them into the building,

[3:55] bring them up after everybody's gone.

[4:02] Tonight's meeting is just a quick

[4:04] meeting to review some general budget

[4:06] guidelines. So,

[4:08] probably not going to be very exciting,

[4:10] but you might find it useful.

[4:16] » That's Matt. He was going to watch

[4:18] tonight's meeting.

[4:19] » Oh, he's

[4:23] trying to learn.

[4:27] I usually I always ask them uh so what

[4:31] have you what have you done to prepare

[4:33] for this and you know what what do you

[4:35] know about the town have you done any

[4:36] research what have you read you know

[4:38] it's always

[4:40] » Helpful if they at least know how to

[4:41] spell the name and have read like an

[4:42] annual report or something have some

[4:44] sense of what the hell they're doing

[4:48] » This might be live stream right now

[4:54] » Good afternoon

[4:54] » Gentlemen

[4:57] How you doing?

[4:58] » All right,

[5:01] it's 5:00. I'd like to open this meeting

[5:03] with the pledge.

[5:05] I pledge algiance to the flag of the

[5:08] United States of America and to the

[5:11] republic for which it stands, one nation

[5:14] under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[5:17] justice for all.

[5:21] Okay, I hear selectman Elvarez's voice

[5:25] down the hall.

[5:29] » Good evening.

[5:30] » Good evening.

[5:31] Hello, Mr. Doyle.

[5:37] » Ms. Rodier.

[5:39] » Hey there. I know that I'm seeming

[5:42] awfully contamperous. Um, but the thing

[5:45] is is that Is it Am I You want me to

[5:48] wait? Oh, wait. Oh, well, I was going to

[5:50] start the meeting off with just a brief

[5:54] uh summary of what our

[5:57] agenda was this evening. Last week, we

[6:00] cancelled the meeting uh due to

[6:05] medical stuff. Um and just didn't have

[6:09] much on the agenda. We still don't. I

[6:11] believe this is the calm before the

[6:13] storm and I thought we should take

[6:15] advantage of a little calm time to have

[6:17] some preliminary

[6:19] discussion of the town budget and the

[6:21] warrant and that was all that was on the

[6:24] agenda for this evening. Uh we have

[6:27] resident has dropped in and

[6:32] you can take the floor.

[6:34] Um, I just I you know, as I don't know

[6:36] if everybody on the board knows, but I

[6:38] did drop off some more 91A

[6:41] uh after we went through the preliminary

[6:43] report of uh the original request. Well,

[6:46] first I want to give you guys an order

[6:49] um that just came in today finally for

[6:51] the court. This isn't for the quiet

[6:52] title. Um I have to put glasses on

[6:56] because I'm very blind.

[6:57] » I'm sorry. What is this in regards to?

[6:59] Um this is in regards to I mean you know

[7:02] what I originally came in here for um in

[7:05] October of last year was Mr. Cormier

[7:07] working on my property.

[7:10] » Um and they started uh working without a

[7:12] permit

[7:14] uh violation.

[7:17] Um and pretty much nothing was entered

[7:20] into that, you know, at all. And

[7:23] eventually Debbie Deon and uh Sean

[7:27] Telbot and the rest of the board uh you

[7:29] know

[7:31] said to me that driveway uh permits were

[7:35] had that came onto state state highway

[7:37] had nothing to do with the board. uh

[7:40] which is really kind of in part untrue

[7:42] because that's one step the you know the

[7:46] driveway

[7:47] » Going through the state

[7:48] » Right and then there's other parts that

[7:50] the town does have in their own on top

[7:53] of that which are buffers and all that

[7:55] other stuff which was the exact stuff

[7:56] that I was complaining about it being

[7:58] removed um and nothing was happened

[8:01] Debbie Deon um represented

[8:04] that the board would be handling those

[8:07] issues when Mr. Cormier put in an

[8:09] application for a variance

[8:12] um which he withdrew and then put in

[8:16] um and uh the board denied him that

[8:21] variance

[8:22] and um

[8:25] and so you know as you guys know court

[8:28] is super long. I can't you know like I

[8:30] filed that case back in August of last

[8:32] year and it's a multi-part

[8:35] case. there's the terri, you know, the

[8:39] temporary restraining order, the quiet

[8:41] title, and there's some other things

[8:43] that he's done now that have been put

[8:45] into there. Um, and so,

[8:49] uh, that was never addressed. I so I

[8:53] part of that was I sent pictures to uh

[8:57] Pete Kellaher and I said, "Hey, here are

[9:00] the images of the leaking sewage coming

[9:03] out of the leech field that he dug

[9:05] into." Um, and I have that text thread.

[9:11] » When did this take place?

[9:12] » That took place. So, we had the board

[9:15] hearing, I believe was 10:17 or 10:18 of

[9:18] 2025.

[9:21] And so, sometime in between when you

[9:24] said that the board decided we will go

[9:26] out there and take a look at this trash

[9:28] and hauling business by NC Hauling, he

[9:31] changed it to Village Dumpsters, Pete

[9:34] came out and said, "I can't decide

[9:36] boundary line issues." Um, which is

[9:40] fine. Uh, because no one asked him to do

[9:43] that. I asked him actually just to look

[9:44] at the leaking septic that was coming

[9:47] from there. And then later this year,

[9:50] ironically,

[9:52] Pete, uh, Mr. Cormier, cuz Mr. Cormier

[9:54] is not just targeted his, he's spread

[9:58] out to other neighbors. They're just not

[10:00] mouse. They're much quieter. Uh,

[10:02] literally a mousier, you know, just very

[10:05] pe I'm not that. Um, and so,

[10:10] uh, he called to make a complaint that

[10:12] their septic was leaking onto his

[10:14] property. And don't you know what, Pete

[10:16] called the dees right away and made a

[10:18] complaint about it right away. Um, and

[10:21] so Pete Keller's record is obviously

[10:23] very important to my case. I that

[10:25] violation has been open for a year. When

[10:28] I said, "Hey, here's where we're at with

[10:30] court. I want to know what's going on

[10:31] with this violation. It wasn't addressed

[10:33] at the zoning hearing like the town

[10:35] administrator." No offense, Jack. This

[10:37] is Bri, you coming in um said that it

[10:40] would be addressed at this hearing. Um

[10:43] that wasn't in front of the zoning

[10:44] board. And so I called um them up. They

[10:47] said, "Well, you have to make a whole

[10:48] new complaint." And I said, "Okay, I'll

[10:50] make a whole new complaint." But to me,

[10:51] that means that there's two actions.

[10:52] Now, this order is from the judge. You

[10:56] know, my case is very complex. I did

[10:58] offer to give the town of Newipswitch

[11:01] access to my dropbox.

[11:03] Um, and I also didn't know that every

[11:05] board had their own like repository. So,

[11:08] um, and the town separ you know, so I

[11:11] didn't realize that there is kind of

[11:13] like a slowing with the chain of

[11:15] records. Um, and so, um, but this order

[11:19] I have um,

[11:22] emailed it. I'll email it to Evelyn as

[11:24] well as you, Jack. And but this is just

[11:26] for the TTRO part of the case. Cormier

[11:28] has zero ownership interest in Old

[11:30] County Road.

[11:33] Um, and so,

[11:36] uh, I I am from Newipswitch. I, you

[11:40] know, a lot of people will say things

[11:42] like bias and yada yada yada. Part of

[11:45] that is what makes our community

[11:47] wonderful. In my opinion, it's this

[11:49] community was started by hardworking

[11:51] families and trades that still work here

[11:55] now. farmers,

[11:57] I will obviously trust their opinion

[12:01] before a strangers because that is part

[12:05] of what what makes us amazing. Do you

[12:07] know what I'm saying? But at the end of

[12:09] the day, the rules should apply equally

[12:11] to all of us. And um there shouldn't

[12:14] have even been waiting to decide who

[12:18] owns the easement. Um all of the same

[12:21] evidence was given to me as given to the

[12:23] court. It's clear

[12:26] that he had, you know, both parties, no

[12:29] matter what, had interest in there. I

[12:30] mean, I think that everyone, the DOT,

[12:33] you know, cuz when McCormier went to the

[12:35] DOT, he was denied the DOT gave me the

[12:39] driveway permit in the updated name

[12:41] because I hadn't gotten a switch since I

[12:43] purchased it. I brought that in last

[12:45] year.

[12:47] And so, he was denied that part of the

[12:49] process. I don't know why the town

[12:51] didn't take that into consideration.

[12:52] What was the process?

[12:54] » The DOT was the part where a person is

[12:56] going to construct a new driveway and

[12:58] they have to go to the DOT.

[13:01] He he did that. He went to the DOT.

[13:05] » He was denied. I was given a permit in

[13:08] my correct name cuz, you know, I I

[13:11] honestly didn't know that the DOT permit

[13:14] needed to be updated when I purchased

[13:15] the house from my stepfather. It was my

[13:17] own uh failing there. But at the end of

[13:20] the day, he had the choice to to do both

[13:24] and he or either or and he did not. He

[13:27] put it in my name because that's where

[13:29] the slope rights remain. The the one of

[13:33] the easements that I have in my deed is

[13:36] with the town of Newipswitch. The other

[13:38] one is with the state of New Hampshire

[13:39] because of the frontage on 123 M and 124

[13:43] remains with my property regardless

[13:47] that that those violations still sit. He

[13:50] still works on that. He town told him,

[13:52] "Nope, no place for you to put a start."

[13:55] And listen, I don't care what you do

[13:57] with your property, especially if you're

[13:59] working from home. I support that.

[14:01] That's we're built on that. But I do

[14:03] care what you do on my property. And he

[14:06] removed all those buffers. I mean, the

[14:08] zoning board said right in there, even

[14:10] the work that he caused made his

[14:11] property um

[14:15] uncompliant, non-conforming,

[14:17] and that he didn't, you know, he removed

[14:20] the buffer buffers, didn't meet the size

[14:23] requirement on three sides, and that

[14:25] landing still exists partially that with

[14:27] the even with the survey that I

[14:29] submitted to you guys of his survey um

[14:32] is

[14:34] partially on my land and old county road

[14:37] is 100 is uh you know that part of the

[14:41] ownership part

[14:44] you know that will be answered in the

[14:46] quiet title case I didn't ask them to

[14:48] determine in the TTRO case that was a

[14:50] preservation of evidence case and it did

[14:54] perfectly exactly what I needed to he

[14:56] admitted everything that I needed him to

[15:01] and so the the other thing is

[15:04] you know Dwayne

[15:06] you know, and I waited a long time

[15:08] before I didn't even I I brought up

[15:11] brought this up. And I'm going to tell

[15:12] you why. Mrs. White was my sixth grade

[15:14] teacher.

[15:16] His her sister, fabulous chef. I don't

[15:19] know if you guys have ever been out to

[15:20] one of Ben and Chelsea's events.

[15:23] Fabulous. Amazing.

[15:26] His son. No, this is important. Well, I

[15:30] just want to caution you on

[15:33] throwing around names when people aren't

[15:35] present.

[15:36] » No, I'm asking the board of selectmen.

[15:38] The legal process is to request a

[15:41] hearing through the board of select.

[15:44] Okay? Because here's the thing is at the

[15:47] this is what I'm trying to say about

[15:49] supporting because you know for a fact

[15:51] like does SRO have that list on there?

[15:54] I'm on there. Okay. What's that? You

[15:56] know how SARS have a family tree list?

[15:58] » Oh,

[15:59] » A genetic list. I'm on there. I can

[16:01] bring it in here. I'm just trying to say

[16:02] I'm not trying to say bias.

[16:04] » I don't know what that has to do with

[16:05] anything.

[16:06] » But what I'm trying to say about this is

[16:09] why I've waited

[16:11] to not include I've not said no. It's

[16:14] very important that I say this, Jason,

[16:16] and I understand why you're cautioning

[16:18] me because it is a small community.

[16:21] Sure.

[16:21] » But the thing is, no, I'm suing his son.

[16:25] He knew I was suing his son.

[16:27] » This isn't necessary for what you've

[16:29] come here today is to ask for a hearing

[16:33] for his removal from the zoning board.

[16:36] The process is done through the select

[16:38] board. They put it up. A special hearing

[16:42] occurs. Everyone gets to vote. Two

[16:46] things happened. He didn't excuse

[16:48] himself. There was an alternate there.

[16:51] He had he could have excused himself

[16:53] like he did silver scones

[16:55] » For

[16:56] » Voting on the cormier property because

[16:59] the bottom line is I am suing his son

[17:02] because his son was the timber

[17:03] professional that cut my trees down. He

[17:06] and he hired him. Mr. Cormier did. I

[17:10] tried to do arbitration with through Mr.

[17:12] White through every relative that we

[17:15] possibly could because I care. I don't

[17:17] want that on him. A mistake could have

[17:18] been made on Mr. Town. I don't know what

[17:21] happened with the timber professional,

[17:22] but I didn't want his reputation tainted

[17:25] or anyone else's. I waited a long time

[17:27] before I went in there. But Mr. White

[17:29] knew it. Dwayne White knew it because I

[17:31] had tried to communicate with him for

[17:32] there's a lot of reasons. Church,

[17:34] family, there's a lot of things. My

[17:35] respect for the family in general,

[17:38] he could have excused himself. Not only

[17:40] did he not excuse himself at the end of

[17:42] the thing, which is recorded. Not only

[17:44] is it recorded, it's on YouTube. It's

[17:46] preserved. I have the transcript and the

[17:48] recording. At the end of the hearing, he

[17:50] says 80% of what the abutters had to say

[17:53] was irrelevant and went in one ear and

[17:55] out the other. And we didn't talk, what

[17:58] did we talk about that was personal? We

[18:00] talked about trash and hauling business

[18:02] right there on the corner. Remove the

[18:03] buffers, property values, the sagen

[18:06] river being right there.

[18:07] » Yeah. The only personal thing that I

[18:10] brought in it

[18:11] » The thing is is I mean I'm not sure what

[18:14] the procedures are

[18:15] » That is

[18:16] » For for removing an appointed

[18:20] » Is a special committee member

[18:21] » RSA

[18:23] I think it's uh 51830 I will send the

[18:27] RSA but the process is is through the

[18:29] select board I'm sure Jack you can help

[18:31] them out with this because you're the

[18:32] administrator but the process is through

[18:35] the select board there's I'm asking two

[18:38] things. One, um, because I have future

[18:41] things that I have to this driveway open

[18:43] work permit. I don't want to.

[18:45] » So, this is being addressed currently by

[18:47] the code enforcement officer.

[18:49] » Pete, Pete, I was in here earlier this

[18:52] week, there wasn't one thing on that

[18:53] file. Not only was there not one thing

[18:55] on the file, the original text messages

[18:57] that I sent to Pete with the here. He

[19:00] says, "I will be running late. I just

[19:03] did an inspection, but I'll be out

[19:05] there." I said, "Great. I want to have

[19:07] you bring some bring some water samples

[19:09] because I want you to take a picture of

[19:10] this. He when Mr. Cormier cut that drop

[19:14] off to the easement he cut into Adid

[19:17] Leechfield. That's what the problem that

[19:19] I brought to the town. There was

[19:21] standing sludge. I have those images. I

[19:23] brought those images here. I have that

[19:25] whole that you can see that meeting on

[19:27] 1017. Maybe it was 10:18. And so then I

[19:31] said, "Pete, break out your phone." He

[19:34] broke out his phone. Guess what? Those

[19:35] messages aren't there, but they're in my

[19:37] telephone. I I didn't say diddly about

[19:39] Pete doing the boundary line issue

[19:41] because first of all, it's for the

[19:43] superior court to decide. Second of all,

[19:45] Pete's own the fire department. The

[19:47] neighbors my neighbor fire department.

[19:50] So, I mean, you know, and I've had a ton

[19:53] of other things and Jack, this is again

[19:56] before you, but I came to that 114

[19:58] meeting 10. You know, I came here,

[19:59] Jason, those two board meetings to talk

[20:01] about the neighbor on the second one.

[20:04] SBAS was also here to ask to do some

[20:08] sort of thing, a closed hearing thing.

[20:11] Emily, you know, like a 1990s movie.

[20:14] » All right. Well, you know what? We're

[20:15] just going to leave that. We're going to

[20:17] leave it be. You should I think you

[20:19] should I want

[20:20] » You've already You've already brought

[20:22] this up. Your point in coming tonight.

[20:25] » What? No. The reason why I'm coming

[20:27] tonight, Jason, is because I I have

[20:29] brought it up. I actually brought it up

[20:31] in November. I sent an official thing.

[20:33] What was Did I I What What is the town's

[20:35] response to me?

[20:36] » You know what the town's response?

[20:38] » I got no response on Emily on that when

[20:40] she tried to she tried to,

[20:44] you know, and gave me the none of that.

[20:46] I got zero response to that. Jason and

[20:48] the bank records. Um, that's part of the

[20:51] original request. Debbie Deon's answer

[20:54] to me is that the bank doesn't give PDF

[20:58] records of the statements. The DRRA

[21:01] records that you guys provided says

[21:04] there has been uncontrolled spending on

[21:07] 114 when I came in for the hearing. It

[21:09] says the select board there's the the

[21:11] credit card receipts don't match up.

[21:13] There's a lot of things that the DRRA

[21:15] reports. I gave a summary when I dropped

[21:17] off the 91 reports. Um, and I have a

[21:21] much deeper summary. The other requests

[21:23] that I have are to patch those things.

[21:26] The the municipal bank records, that's

[21:28] nothing new. We're with that's everyone

[21:31] here has the right to know those

[21:32] records. I did not demand that they come

[21:34] in PDF. That would be a lot easier. But

[21:38] I'm happy to come here with my own

[21:39] scanner and scan as I go. I'm happy to

[21:42] do that. I'm not trying to put the

[21:44] burden on you guys when you have a very

[21:46] slim staff who doing amazing. Evelyn,

[21:51] Tammy, who's in there? I forgot the

[21:53] wonderful people there and the records

[21:55] that they have corrected since that

[21:57] original 90. They fixed over 3,000

[21:59] property records since that first 91A

[22:02] batch record that I

[22:04] I dropped. They're doing incredible work

[22:07] over there. There's less than 100

[22:08] properties left that they have to

[22:09] adjust.

[22:11] I'm not asking anybody to make up

[22:13] records on before because we're all here

[22:17] like we're but we have to start moving

[22:19] forward and I want accountability for

[22:22] everything that happens to me and if I

[22:23] have to talk about it publicly to get it

[22:25] I'm gonna

[22:26] » Well, so your point in coming today is

[22:29] to request a hearing to remove a ZBA

[22:34] member.

[22:35] » Correct.

[22:36] » And what else? I um Jack had sent me an

[22:40] email earlier um you know stating that

[22:43] the

[22:45] the 13 uh 91A requests that I dropped

[22:49] off are extensive over the 5-year period

[22:52] and I just wanted to uh defend in that

[22:55] is that the the the the questionable

[22:58] uh you know reports from the DRA and

[23:02] those go back to 2018 and there's

[23:04] actually

[23:06] 19 years litigation in court. Um, and so

[23:09] I think I'm being conservative with the

[23:11] five years and I'm not rushing, but as

[23:14] far as the bank records go and the

[23:16] property tax assessment records,

[23:20] those should be fairly easy. And, you

[23:23] know, there's things on a um on a town's

[23:26] person's level that they're entitled to

[23:29] do within a legal time clock every year.

[23:32] And that a lot of that is January 1. and

[23:35] some we we need those records before

[23:38] that. Um you know probably a couple

[23:40] weeks before that and the Avatar records

[23:43] the editing is important because I need

[23:45] to compare it to the previous records.

[23:48] Um and last year when I asked for Pete

[23:51] Keller's records because I thought it

[23:52] was weird when I'm asking him to come

[23:54] over and look at the pictures of the

[23:55] septic and then he comes to the board

[23:57] and says I'm not doing deciding a

[24:00] boundary line issue when it was never

[24:02] even discussed. I asked for his records.

[24:04] Then the town said he's barely on the

[24:06] job. Now we have a whole new position.

[24:09] He's been paid salary for an entire

[24:10] year. Vehicle probably got a phone, I'm

[24:13] imagining, and zero records in an open

[24:18] violation for over a year.

[24:20] » So he emailed us this afternoon and said

[24:24] that he is

[24:26] working with Evelyn alongside Evelyn.

[24:31] and he expressed that to me when he came

[24:33] there the other day. But my position is

[24:35] this, Jason. Um Pete's position, and

[24:39] I've looked back, it's literally to

[24:41] create a go between if we have open

[24:45] violations. And we do have sometimes

[24:48] communication issues between different

[24:51] boards and entities within the in the

[24:54] town. And that is to be expected. Do you

[24:57] know what I'm saying? Until there's a

[24:59] system in place for that. But in a whole

[25:02] year, yesterday he came in when I told

[25:04] him I was going to get a 91A based on

[25:06] his record yesterday, you know, or

[25:08] whatever day he emailed you. But for the

[25:10] entire year before that, despite there

[25:12] being an open violation, not once did he

[25:15] attend any meeting, come request

[25:18] anything off of any board, say, "Hey,

[25:21] why is this open?"

[25:25] No, not once. And then when I said,

[25:26] "Okay, well, now I have this from the

[25:29] court." and he said, "Well, why don't

[25:30] you open a new one?" Okay, I'm gonna,

[25:33] but now I want both of them addressed

[25:35] since he asked me to open it. I would

[25:38] like both ones addressed and I want his

[25:40] file. I don't think I'm being

[25:41] unreasonable. You through the process of

[25:44] doing this because obviously, you know,

[25:46] I'm pretty public because I think

[25:47] transparency is important for our

[25:50] community. Um, other people have

[25:53] messaged me. There's other concerning

[25:54] open violations that are happening now

[25:57] like Appleton Manning being run as a bed

[25:59] and breakfast and other things. Some

[26:01] things are severely could have

[26:03] environmental issues.

[26:06] I'm not putting all that blame on him.

[26:08] What I'm saying is that position was

[26:09] created to help bridge that gap and stop

[26:13] these things from happening and

[26:15] essentially probably I would imagine

[26:17] prevent the town from more litigation.

[26:21] I have expressly I even signed a paper

[26:24] once saying I don't want to sue this

[26:26] town. I just want to work with you guys.

[26:29] But it's increasingly more difficult to

[26:30] do that when no one when when every

[26:33] department because you know if if my

[26:35] neighbor is ambulance services and I

[26:37] made a representation that an ambulance

[26:39] person tried to jump me and then the

[26:41] board ambulance board came onto my page.

[26:44] I mean Wendy all of them come on to my

[26:46] page. Who would I call 911 for? Who's

[26:48] coming? Is it Jeff and my neighbors?

[26:52] And so I have that area that's not

[26:54] working for me. And then all these other

[26:56] boards and that that's just sitting

[26:58] open. What would you do as a property

[27:00] owner? Just ignore it. And now I've gone

[27:02] I've spent $54,000

[27:05] to date. And now is that enough as a

[27:09] property owner to have you have

[27:11] attention?

[27:12] I mean, I don't know what it's going to

[27:13] take. And it it really makes me feel

[27:16] like

[27:18] this is what and I think if you were in

[27:19] anyone's position that if why are they

[27:22] not following their own ordinances?

[27:24] Well, it must be something bigger that

[27:25] they're hiding or they actually do have

[27:28] select preference.

[27:30] And I know the preference. I get the

[27:32] preference. I'm from here. I I support a

[27:35] lot of that preference. That preference

[27:38] keeps Newip Switch safe. It's kept

[27:40] Newipswitch safe. It's kept, it's given

[27:42] new switch the integrity that it has.

[27:46] But when it comes to the ordinances,

[27:48] we write them as a people. Like this

[27:51] community writes them. We come in in the

[27:52] warrant articles and then we vote on yay

[27:55] and nay on them. And I mean, should more

[27:57] people be voting? Sure. But but the

[27:58] bottom line is those ordinances apply

[28:00] equally to everybody. I shouldn't had to

[28:02] work as hard to at least have you say,

[28:04] you know what, you're stopped working. I

[28:06] mean I between the town and he had a

[28:09] restrict stop border on him on September

[28:10] 30th. I brought that in in the board in

[28:12] October. I mean he all town also put the

[28:15] thing in there. Someone works without

[28:17] violation. He's still doing it now. He's

[28:20] still working on the driveway now. I can

[28:21] show you videos just the other day of

[28:23] him working on that and with the

[28:26] dumpster over there. So I mean this is

[28:28] after the zoning board said no. He

[28:30] appealed. The appeal said no.

[28:32] So I don't know what else you guys want

[28:35] from me. I'm gonna be sticky about the

[28:36] zone the the the

[28:40] 91A. I'm not sticky about the time.

[28:44] » Jack's looking it over now.

[28:46] » I know it's extensive, but it's all

[28:48] information that we all have the right

[28:49] to know. The things that are important

[28:51] to me is the things that are relating to

[28:54] Cormier because if you read in there and

[28:56] the previous orders, they specifically

[28:58] say, "Why aren't you suing the

[29:00] municipality?

[29:01] The municipality is at fault here." You

[29:04] know, I learned words like ratification,

[29:06] liability, and all that other things

[29:08] through some of the orders that are in

[29:12] there.

[29:13] And so, and and the thing is Whoops.

[29:16] Switch does, you know, has a long

[29:17] history of court. And even you guys

[29:20] represented, I don't know if old County

[29:22] Road is discontinued, but the legal

[29:24] records that you guys provided to me,

[29:26] you had already been in court over the

[29:28] old county road. So you it auto makes

[29:32] automatically makes me feel adversarial.

[29:35] So I don't want to be that. I'm happy

[29:37] when I'm done starting the you know the

[29:41] good neighbor community center from

[29:43] whatever happens from all of this. Um I

[29:45] want to help fix this. I love no switch.

[29:48] I'm never leaving.

[29:50] But if you don't want to have me help

[29:52] fix it, that's fine. But I'm going to

[29:53] get them either way. I don't want to get

[29:54] it too cool. I don't think I think it's

[29:56] stupid that it's taken this long to get

[29:58] the kind of support that I should have

[30:00] with working without a permit. Even when

[30:02] I'm talking with Pete in there, he says,

[30:03] "Well, I got to talk to the zoning board

[30:05] and see what they say about driveway

[30:07] permits because it all has to be equal."

[30:09] It doesn't say anything about driveway

[30:10] permits. It says he was working without

[30:12] a permit because he removed all the

[30:14] buffer and that those slope rights are

[30:17] on me. Look at this rain. Kirk said

[30:20] himself, "If I have a wash out, guess

[30:22] whose responsibility is?" And you know,

[30:23] the wash out happened right next to it

[30:26] and he's still doing it.

[30:29] So, the court ain't going to stop him.

[30:32] » I I literally just secured $151,000

[30:35] attachment on his property. Hopefully

[30:37] that will.

[30:39] » So, can I just ask a couple questions?

[30:41] » Yep.

[30:41] » You you you who's this person from from

[30:44] the ZBA that you want

[30:46] » Dwayne White.

[30:48] » Okay. And what's the connection of

[30:51] Dwayne White? I'm suing his um so um

[30:54] what happens is um on

[30:57] » This is a quiet title.

[30:59] » No, that's a tier.

[31:01] » You you lost it. They denied it.

[31:03] » Yeah.

[31:03] » So what what is the relevance of this to

[31:05] any?

[31:05] » I mean if you read the whole thing it

[31:07] says you lost it if you if you lost it.

[31:10] But basically I lost it because the

[31:12] defense

[31:14] didn't listen. I lost it because they

[31:16] came out there. They said the scope is

[31:18] different. He can tell that he did the

[31:19] stone wall which he he admitted to on

[31:21] the stand. He removed the trees. He

[31:25] doesn't have any ownership. It appears

[31:27] that he is over burdened and his scope

[31:32] his his rights which he only has right

[31:34] to pass and repass. So I the only thing

[31:36] that I stopped I lost was the

[31:39] preservation of the land which he didn't

[31:40] listen anyway. And that's part of the

[31:42] ratification liability honestly because

[31:44] if the town had just enforced the do not

[31:48] work permit that they had put out there

[31:50] » The court's pretty clear that it isn't

[31:53] clear that who owns old county road that

[31:55] portion.

[31:56] » Yep. But uh there's other or there's

[31:58] four other Yeah. The four other orders

[32:01] that came in there and and and actually

[32:03] if you it's pretty clear in there that

[32:05] this is a TTRO case. I never did ask her

[32:08] in this scope of the case.

[32:11] » Temporary restraining order.

[32:12] » Do not go in there. Cormier, she

[32:15] enjoined him from doing any work from

[32:17] September 30th. I produced even in

[32:19] October I came in here and was

[32:21] complaining that he was working on it

[32:22] then. So he was already in violation of

[32:24] that order.

[32:25] » The police didn't address it to this.

[32:27] » But hold on. No, I want to bring this up

[32:29] because the thing is is that

[32:32] » She says I never asked the TTRO. this. I

[32:35] have a quiet title case in superior

[32:38] court with him and I have a torsious

[32:40] interference of commerce and trade name

[32:43] infringement because he bought my name

[32:45] during he started all kinds of stuff

[32:47] with my name that is specifically to the

[32:50] TTRO part and she never quiet title was

[32:53] not to be decided in that case ownership

[32:55] was not to be decided in that case I

[32:58] filed that case because I mean first I

[33:00] thought he might actually listen to the

[33:01] judge's order on September 30th but she

[33:03] didn't but Then everything that he said

[33:06] on the stand and everything the judge

[33:08] entered and answered on I can now use

[33:11] without any question. It's not has to be

[33:14] decided on in the court in my quiet

[33:16] title case. He got right on the stand

[33:18] and said I I already provided the

[33:21] transcript, but I can do it again for

[33:23] your repository or however that works.

[33:25] Uh he said right on there, I um blocked

[33:29] it. I cut the trees down once I had

[33:32] enough space. I put all my trucks in

[33:33] there. I she came down there, she told

[33:36] me no and that's when this started and

[33:37] he admitted everything on there.

[33:39] » So, going back to Dwayne White,

[33:42] » I was at that meeting.

[33:43] » I know.

[33:44] » Um, I saw nothing about cutting trees in

[33:50] that meeting. And I would have seen no

[33:53] reason for Dwayne to recuse himself. The

[33:55] meeting was simply about storing

[33:57] dumpsters on a property. That was all it

[34:00] was about. I don't I think I don't see

[34:03] why there would be a reason for Dwayne

[34:06] to recuse himself. Now,

[34:08] » If you want to

[34:08] » And if and if you don't like a zoning

[34:11] board

[34:13] members opinion,

[34:16] » Um that's they everybody has it. That's

[34:19] why they're put there is to offer their

[34:21] opinions.

[34:21] » The the process of removal

[34:24] » Is a select board process. The select

[34:28] board looks up the RSA which I will

[34:32] I will I will send it to you. I don't

[34:33] have this direct in front of me. I

[34:35] assume that so you guys would know the

[34:37] select board stuff. But the part of that

[34:39] is is that you put you start to hear it.

[34:43] The whole town can show up and you know

[34:45] realistically there's a good chance that

[34:47] that could happen and say nope we don't

[34:49] agree with that.

[34:51] But every person

[34:52] » Familiar with this. every right person

[34:54] had the that's the only way you can get

[34:56] a voted person off of the board. There

[34:59] was an alternate

[35:00] » He's not elected. He's appointed.

[35:02] » Exactly.

[35:03] » So we cannot we can remove an appointed

[35:06] person right now with a vote of us three

[35:10] as far as I understand it.

[35:12] » But there's also a hearing process and

[35:14] that's what I'd like because truthfully,

[35:15] no offense. I mean it deser it's

[35:18] deserves a public vote and it's my

[35:21] » Wouldn't you agree that there was no

[35:22] mention of tree cutting at

[35:25] » It's not about tree cutting

[35:26] » But you said it was a conflict of

[35:28] interest for him because his son worked

[35:30] on there and I don't see that conflict

[35:32] » The conflict of interest listen I'm

[35:34] suing his son

[35:36] » I came in front of a I was part of a

[35:39] process a a thing

[35:43] a

[35:45] motion a uh you know something was

[35:47] brought in front of the zoning board to

[35:48] be voted on that involved me directly.

[35:52] I'm the one that filled the original

[35:54] complaint.

[35:55] » It involved you as in a butter,

[35:58] » Jason. Then why? Okay, then then I'm

[36:00] actually going to have to move forward

[36:02] on the court because then why didn't you

[36:03] guys act on the original driveway

[36:05] violation? I'll pull up the Debbie Deon

[36:06] email. I don't know if you have access

[36:08] to the admin emails, Jack, but it says

[36:11] right in there, we will address Mr.

[36:14] Cormier's violations at his hearing for

[36:17] a variance. That's what happened. So I

[36:20] thought though that that's when that was

[36:21] going to happen. But you know what

[36:22] happened is again no none of that was

[36:25] open. In fact, you have to open a second

[36:27] one. And the reason why it matters is

[36:30] because

[36:31] Mr. Cormier worked with his son. Okay?

[36:35] And if you don't think that that

[36:37] matters, that's fine. But I think that

[36:38] everyone else that's why under I think

[36:40] it's 53. I can't believe you're going to

[36:42] make me look it up to demand nothing.

[36:44] » I was asking if Jack was aware of this

[36:46] process.

[36:47] » Well, you can certainly if there was

[36:49] cause, you could remove.

[36:51] » Do you don't think that me there's

[36:53] costs? Um, and I I could go deeper with

[36:56] proving the bias here in the community

[36:57] and that's what the 91A are requested

[36:59] for.

[37:00] » How many How many people are on the ZBA?

[37:03] » Uh, I don't know,

[37:04] » But I know that Hutter Construction owns

[37:06] all the land around me. And what was and

[37:09] and when the ZBA declined the variance,

[37:14] what was the vote?

[37:15] » They declined it. So what if he even if

[37:17] he recused himself, they still would

[37:19] have denied the variance. So I'm not

[37:21] quite sure.

[37:22] » It's it's the fact first of all, he said

[37:24] 80% of what the butters had to say was

[37:27] irrelevant and went in one ear and not

[37:29] the other. There was they had an

[37:30] alternate there. If Dwayne would

[37:32] wouldn't want to be dragged into it, he

[37:33] shouldn't have he should have recused

[37:35] himself. Didn't Silver Stones talk about

[37:37] this? He he had discernment then and he

[37:39] wasn't even his family member wasn't

[37:41] even being sued. Mr. Cormier hired his

[37:45] son. He knew.

[37:47] » Do you recall what the vote was?

[37:49] » Yeah, they all voted for me. But a

[37:51] couple times he didn't. A couple of

[37:52] times Dwayne thought it might be and and

[37:55] I have this preserved. And listen, if

[37:57] you don't think that I'm not working

[37:58] with the ACLU with other people in town,

[38:00] I am. But I'm trying to come in here.

[38:02] » What's up? If he had recused himself,

[38:04] the outcome would be the same because

[38:06] the votes were overwhelmingly

[38:08] to reject the variant. So change in the

[38:12] outcome.

[38:12] » I I'm not looking for a change in the

[38:14] outcome. I'm talking the the the under

[38:17] RF R 513 I think it's 98. I'm going to

[38:20] have to look, but under that it's

[38:22] specifically the conduct surrounding it.

[38:25] It's the conduct surrounding it. If if

[38:28] if someone so I just want to say what

[38:31] what level I I'm not trying to say

[38:33] anybody's last name makes bias. I'm not

[38:36] trying to say where you go to church or

[38:37] who you're related to or who you work

[38:39] with or where you

[38:40] » Sounds like it.

[38:41] » I I know that it sounds like it but you

[38:43] know here's the thing Jack is I'm from

[38:44] here. Okay. So I am related to a lot of

[38:47] people. I have gone to a church with a

[38:49] lot of people. So what I'm saying is

[38:51] Jack there was an alternative there. He

[38:53] could have said, "You know what? My son

[38:56] my son's professional license is on the

[38:58] line with this person and my son is is

[39:02] on the hook for minimal." I mean,

[39:05] because you know, with timber trespass,

[39:06] there's

[39:07] » But wouldn't you wouldn't you have

[39:08] thought that

[39:10] » He would he would have

[39:12] » Recused himself? Of course.

[39:13] » No, that he would have voted against.

[39:16] » It's denying the variance. He

[39:19] » There's two times where he did height.

[39:22] There's there's where they offer their

[39:24] opinions, but then the final vote came

[39:26] in. It was unanimous, was it not?

[39:28] » It and listen, if I was um trying to

[39:32] have something overturned, I'd go in

[39:34] front of the housing appeal. My question

[39:36] is the personal bias that a a member has

[39:41] where he should have recused himself.

[39:43] » But how was the personal bias

[39:46] built through the decision?

[39:48] » It's not that he shouldn't have

[39:50] participated at all. He said, "Why would

[39:51] a zoning board member, any zoning board

[39:54] member who's there to listen to what the

[39:56] abutters have to say and you were there,

[39:58] Jason, were we speaking a bunch of

[40:00] personal feelings and googlyark?"

[40:03] » No, we were talking about

[40:04] » What happens if I say what my opinion

[40:05] is, then am I going to be removed?

[40:08] » I mean, if if it is, and you know what,

[40:10] that's part of the hearing that I'd like

[40:12] to request from Dwayne White. What is

[40:14] that 80% that was googlyark? What is

[40:16] that 80%?

[40:17] » I'm sure that they're going to be

[40:18] meeting again. I'm sure that you could

[40:20] ask the question.

[40:21] » It's really tough getting into those

[40:23] hearings, Jason. Just like it's tough

[40:24] getting on this one. That's why I just

[40:26] came. The bottom line is

[40:27] » Why How is it tough?

[40:29] » Listen,

[40:29] » You just show up. They're public

[40:31] hearings,

[40:32] » Jason.

[40:33] » Here's where I'm at. Those are the

[40:35] records that I want. I want the hearing.

[40:37] I will send the RSA over there where I'm

[40:39] allowed as a citizen of New Hampshire to

[40:41] request it and you guys can make it and

[40:43] then the town can decide. I'm quite

[40:46] confident that you can rally the troops

[40:47] and maybe get them to vote against it. I

[40:49] really don't know, but I'm allowed that

[40:50] process. That's the process I want.

[40:53] » Who who's the they that's going to vote

[40:55] against the what

[40:56] » That whoever the they the community if

[40:58] the community wants to vote against

[41:00] that's that's how these hearings work.

[41:02] It's a public hearing. But what a public

[41:04] hearing typically will do is give the

[41:09] board who is in charged with making a

[41:12] decision the ability to get input.

[41:16] » So the is a voting it's just like a

[41:18] warrant article. Everybody's going to

[41:19] vote on it. Everybody

[41:21] » People who show up at the meeting are

[41:22] going to vote.

[41:23] » Yes. That's part of the process.

[41:25] » It's a much different

[41:26] » I'm going to I'm going to actually send

[41:28] it to you. It's it's it's

[41:30] the only legal path that I have forward

[41:34] because we

[41:35] » For for what though

[41:37] » To remove a member of a zoning board

[41:39] » Who voted in favor of you

[41:41] » And you know it's funny because he vote

[41:43] he he same thing happened with Silver

[41:44] Son he voted in favor and then he still

[41:46] had to recuse himself and the thing is

[41:48] when when silver scones went in front of

[41:50] the judge right she they said you know

[41:53] what there's a lot of bias going on here

[41:55] in this community and then the town of

[41:57] Newsw said you just don't understand

[41:59] small town living.

[42:01] And so she really don't know much more

[42:03] to say because maybe she didn't, maybe

[42:04] she's not from here. But the thing is

[42:06] I'm from here. I I there's a lot more

[42:09] other things that I could say, but I'm

[42:10] not going to say publicly. But I know

[42:12] that if I put them in front of a judge

[42:14] and there was all those dots on there,

[42:16] they could make the same decisions and

[42:18] they won't make them the same as people

[42:19] who are necessarily local.

[42:21] » Well, we're going to have to look into

[42:23] this RSA that you're citing. Why would

[42:26] why would at the very minimum he not

[42:28] have to be included in my vote? There

[42:30] was an alternate there.

[42:32] » If someone who is the senior project

[42:34] manager of Hutter Construction that owns

[42:36] all the land around me and I'm suing his

[42:39] son, why wouldn't he recuse himself? You

[42:41] don't see any possible way that that any

[42:44] way that that could change anyone's

[42:46] vote. It might might be like, "Oh, but

[42:49] he voted my son. He voted the way that

[42:52] you wanted him to."

[42:53] » No. two times he didn't end, you know,

[42:55] it gets let's say that he did a 100% of

[42:58] the time, but at the very end he said

[43:01] 80% of the abutters of what they had to

[43:04] say

[43:04] » Was irrelevant. And when in one ear and

[43:07] out the other and then I probably

[43:09] watched that a hundred times with other

[43:11] people. I put it online for, you know,

[43:12] you have it on the zoning. I shared that

[43:14] across every single one of my social

[43:15] media platforms and including in Reddit

[43:18] to ask other legal people what they

[43:20] thought of it and they said, "Nope,

[43:22] » He can't say that. Why would he say

[43:23] that? He's on the zoning board to hear

[43:24] what the abuters have to say. Why would

[43:27] he at least wait until the camera's done

[43:28] rolling?

[43:31] So, I'm going to send that. I want the

[43:33] avatar records, my property records were

[43:36] edited. Some of them are questionable,

[43:38] the same as the ones across town. Those

[43:41] records were fairly quick to get. They

[43:42] got like a week last time. Uh they're

[43:45] relevant uh to my case and to the

[43:48] taxpayers. I'd like to work as quickly

[43:51] as possible. Obviously, with the bank

[43:52] records, I want the drive the working

[43:55] without a permit addressed. If you're

[43:57] saying, hey, he's you have the order

[44:00] now. It it it no matter anything else,

[44:02] he doesn't have any ownership in there.

[44:05] There's no ownership.

[44:07] » Well, it is all I can tell you is that

[44:10] we did receive the email from him. You

[44:12] received that

[44:13] » That he said they are actively working

[44:16] on it.

[44:19] I I I'm willing to, you know, I don't

[44:22] want to be cranky about everything, but

[44:23] I I you know, just because actively that

[44:25] he was actively working on it for a

[44:26] year.

[44:27] » Well, I'm just telling you what I know.

[44:30] » What is a reasonable time frame, do you

[44:31] think, to have something come back from

[44:33] peak to tell me where it's going?

[44:36] Because he still works on it now. So,

[44:39] what do you think is a reasonable time

[44:41] frame? Because it's I mean, you know,

[44:43] » We're not in charge of his job. So, I

[44:45] don't know how to depends on what what

[44:49] the document he needs to find. I mean,

[44:51] if it's

[44:52] » The zoning board and you know, even the

[44:54] zoning board said, you were at that

[44:56] meeting that the property is

[44:57] non-conforming. The buffer's gone. It

[44:59] didn't meet the spatial requirements on

[45:02] three sides. That's all the things that

[45:04] David Le said and they all talked about.

[45:07] So,

[45:07] » The nonconforming, as I understood it,

[45:09] was that it's already a small law. Well,

[45:13] you could

[45:14] » Too.

[45:15] » He what about the buffers?

[45:17] » Dave talked extensively about the

[45:18] buffers.

[45:21] » Yeah. And he removed those buffers and

[45:24] that was what the very little If you go

[45:27] back and watch the YouTube v video on

[45:29] 1017, that's the literally the only

[45:32] relief that you said you guys could

[45:33] provide me. And he has no ownership in

[45:36] old county road. So you said timber

[45:38] reports, we don't care about those. We

[45:40] can't do anything that he's allowed to

[45:42] hire a timber professional. Doesn't have

[45:44] to file a intent to cut. I mean, even

[45:48] though now he has no ownership. So now

[45:50] what?

[45:51] » He has no ownership of Old County Road.

[45:53] The cutting was done on my property.

[45:55] » To this document, neither one of you can

[45:58] prove who owned.

[45:59] » No, I asked her to say that's why and

[46:03] that's that's I I get that your motion

[46:05] was denied.

[46:06] » Yeah. No, I my motion was denied because

[46:09] I didn't bring any. There's four other

[46:12] motions that came in there. This is the

[46:13] only one that's pertinent to the town.

[46:15] The other motions say that

[46:16] » Well, this doesn't have anything to do

[46:17] with the town.

[46:18] » It does. It says that he has no

[46:20] ownership now. And

[46:22] » And neither do you.

[46:24] » Well, it says my ownership fee

[46:26] holdership was not determined. Okay. And

[46:28] the other the the thing but in the other

[46:31] motion Jack it says which I don't have

[46:34] to share with the town but in the other

[46:36] motion it says specifically that she

[46:38] couldn't get in here because the

[46:40] multiple police reports the camera

[46:42] footage video that she's showing and all

[46:45] the other evidence that he he admits to

[46:48] the harassment and in she it says right

[46:50] in there she could not get the

[46:52] professionals in there because of this.

[46:54] in order to get the injunctive relief

[46:56] she needs, she has to file for an

[46:58] injunctive relief and quiet title, which

[46:59] I've done. So, it doesn't say that I've

[47:02] not never once did I ask her to decide

[47:04] ownership. The only relief that I asked

[47:07] for, which is laid out in there, Jack,

[47:10] is him to stop using it for 60 days so I

[47:14] could have professionals go in there

[47:16] without thinking they're going to get

[47:17] shot because that's actually what Ed

[47:18] Rogers said. I'm going to get shot. And

[47:20] then guess what they did? They messed

[47:21] with Ed Rogers. They messed with Chris

[47:23] Lomax. They messed with every single

[47:25] contractor that I went down there and he

[47:27] kept working that the judge documented.

[47:31] And so the thing is I did the TTRO case

[47:34] didn't ask her to decide my ownership.

[47:37] » So you have filed an RTK. I think it was

[47:41] a few days ago.

[47:42] » Yep.

[47:43] » Um and you

[47:46] have requested a public hearing of which

[47:48] we're going to have to look into the

[47:49] legality of it

[47:51] » At the very minimum. I don't want him

[47:52] voting on my stuff. I I don't think it's

[47:55] too much to ask. I'm suing his kid.

[47:58] » That is to go. Um I spoke to the town

[48:01] today. I want that in my file. Okay.

[48:03] I've also brought in big property maps.

[48:06] Everything that I give to the town goes

[48:07] into my property file.

[48:10] » Um and I have brought property maps

[48:13] before to you guys.

[48:15] » Um and you can see the recordings of

[48:16] that. And I brought you the big maps. Um

[48:18] and those are not in my file. And I

[48:20] understand that there's like little

[48:21] repositories for everything which I

[48:23] support because people every board needs

[48:25] their own access to their records. But

[48:28] um I sent this also to um Evelyn and I

[48:32] you know I don't know if Jack or whoever

[48:33] else needs to go to

[48:34] » She has a copy of it.

[48:36] » Yeah. And and listen I'll send the other

[48:37] orders too. I don't I don't Here's the

[48:39] thing. I don't no offense I don't trust

[48:41] anybody. said, "My case is still open."

[48:44] That there's a lot of sensitive

[48:45] information in the other parts. And I

[48:47] don't think you guys need to say it. But

[48:49] she she says, "I can't get over there

[48:51] because he he doesn't let me. I have

[48:53] videos where he's just standing down

[48:54] there like this waiting at my camera. My

[48:57] window has been shot out. I've called

[48:59] the police because there's flashlights

[49:01] out in my woods more than once. The

[49:04] police confirmed there's flashlights out

[49:06] there." I don't I I'm not bringing that

[49:07] in front of you, am I?

[49:08] » This this or Well, you just did. No, I'm

[49:10] sorry.

[49:11] » But this order here is from the court

[49:15] » And it's regarding your civil dispute

[49:18] with your neighbor. What part of this is

[49:21] relevant to

[49:23] the town?

[49:25] » Well, here's the thing. On July 1st,

[49:28] » The court says no work can be done. He

[49:31] they reiterate with him your September

[49:34] 30th says you can't do any work around

[49:36] Old County Road. these pictures that

[49:39] she's entering. You could be in

[49:40] contempt, blah blah blah. But I'm going

[49:42] through that. Absolutely no work can be

[49:45] done in that area. No cutting, no

[49:49] esavating, no tree cutting, nothing.

[49:52] Okay. And then on July 2nd, the

[49:55] immediate day following, he came to the

[49:58] zoning board to get a um a permission to

[50:01] use that same exact space. And so the

[50:03] same thing happened. I came to you guys.

[50:05] I'm like, "Hey, this trash and hauling

[50:07] business is going on over here." He

[50:09] changed his name to Village Dumpsters

[50:11] and then he tried to get a a DOT permit

[50:13] from the state. The DOT permit they said

[50:15] no. And then you know I

[50:18] » This is for the driveway.

[50:20] » Yes. But you you know that new landing

[50:22] that you created there, even on the the

[50:26] survey that I gave to you guys, half of

[50:28] that's on my property and you know half

[50:29] of it is on the old county road which is

[50:32] now has ownership been decided? No.

[50:34] Jack, we haven't had that part of the

[50:36] hearing.

[50:37] » The only reason why I was denied the

[50:38] TTRO is because, as you can read in

[50:40] there, he didn't listen. He just kept

[50:42] going. She did the viewing. She said he

[50:44] the stone wall. All those things are

[50:47] different. And there's multiple issues

[50:50] when you when you're in when you're in

[50:52] court. TRO is one thing. Then there's

[50:55] another hearing that merit that they're

[50:58] going to decide on. And then there's

[50:59] another merit and there's another merit.

[51:01] That was only one merit.

[51:03] The reason why that failed is because he

[51:05] didn't listen. He just kept going. And I

[51:08] provided the metadata to show that

[51:12] I'm not asking to sign anything for

[51:14] court. What I'm asking for is enforce

[51:16] the working without a permit because

[51:18] then maybe he'll stop

[51:20] » When So he got a court you got a court

[51:23] order and they told him to stop.

[51:26] » Yep. That's a September 30th order.

[51:28] » He continued to work.

[51:30] » Correct. And did you go back to the

[51:32] court and say hey court he violated the

[51:34] order?

[51:35] » Of course I did.

[51:36] » And what did they say?

[51:38] » That is issue is still in front of the

[51:40] court.

[51:41] » I have many issues in front of the

[51:44] court. The TTRO is a tempor is a TTRO

[51:48] preservation of evidence.

[51:49] » So he hasn't got a permanent from the

[51:50] town of his own variance and he's

[51:53] violated the court order that you got

[51:55] against him. And the police said that

[51:57] they don't enforce civil court orders,

[51:59] which I don't expect them to do. They're

[52:00] busy enough.

[52:02] » Okay.

[52:03] » All right.

[52:05] » I think we have it.

[52:06] » The rest of the stuff,

[52:10] » I'm not I know the town isn't going to

[52:12] make up records or, you know, doesn't

[52:13] have to make up records of the before

[52:14] stuff and there's missing records and

[52:16] there's whole other boards before you

[52:17] guys. But what I am saying is we have

[52:19] today like we have today forward. we can

[52:22] work together and have a system that

[52:25] everybody can work smoothly and it

[52:26] doesn't have to be as this complicated

[52:28] for every person, you know, and

[52:30] whatever, you know, I I maybe even some

[52:33] of those things that are on with the

[52:34] bank records, maybe those people aren't

[52:35] even here anymore. I don't know. But

[52:37] what I do know is we have the right to

[52:39] see that stuff. I I know it's not going

[52:41] to be quick. But what

[52:43] » The bank records have to do with

[52:44] anything with Cor?

[52:47] » Absolutely nothing.

[52:48] » Okay. But what happened is I came here

[52:49] to my wait my turn to talk and while I'm

[52:53] sitting here and you can look at this

[52:54] hearing on 114 2025

[52:57] and uh you know the cemetery sex was

[53:00] there he spoke first and he said that

[53:03] you know they have no

[53:06] record of any cemetery sales from 2016

[53:08] moving forward and there's no record

[53:11] pretty much no records. He had no

[53:12] records. He went into a rat's nest and

[53:14] he has no records. I mean, we we've

[53:16] since established that the Boy Scouts

[53:17] did a bunch of work previous to that and

[53:19] I don't know if maybe we can tag them on

[53:20] the future stuff, but

[53:21] » They definitely had no records of any

[53:23] sales. The board kind of talked about

[53:25] that

[53:25] » To do.

[53:26] » I'm a taxpayer, Jack. It has everything

[53:28] to do with it. So, I sat at town hearing

[53:30] and then later in that same hearing,

[53:33] » The board discussed multiple users tied

[53:36] to the town's CIN. They didn't know who

[53:38] those were and the spending was a

[53:39] problem. And then also and then the

[53:41] records that they gave me that showed

[53:43] that um and so that's why I I have that

[53:47] and the records also showed that there

[53:48] was some assessing issues. So those

[53:51] record those issues don't have to be

[53:53] related. Anybody can file a 91A at any

[53:56] time about any question they want to

[53:58] know.

[53:58] » Just trying to see if it weaves together

[54:00] somehow. Just trying to keep

[54:02] » Well, what happened is I came down here

[54:04] and I said, "Well, this seems pretty

[54:06] simple. He's not supposed to be doing

[54:09] this." I read the rules. Rules said he's

[54:11] not supposed to be doing this. And then

[54:13] the town said, "Hm." And then I came

[54:14] back again with some pictures and videos

[54:16] and all these other things and the

[54:18] things that they needed and they still

[54:20] said, "Hm." And I said, "Well, why isn't

[54:21] the town following their own ordinances?

[54:23] There must be a reason why."

[54:26] I I think that every taxpayer would say

[54:27] that. Why are they not following their

[54:29] own ordinances? Either they're there's

[54:31] bias there or maybe they're too busy.

[54:32] Either way, I want to know and I want to

[54:34] at least hear know what was going on in

[54:36] the they're talking about in the

[54:37] meetings that I'm attending while I'm

[54:39] waiting my turn to talk.

[54:43] My grandmother was a tax accountant here

[54:46] and in Greenville for 20 years. I prayed

[54:48] to God and Jesus to save my property and

[54:52] they sent Jesus to flip some tables and

[54:54] with my grandmother to do some records.

[54:56] That's why I'm here.

[54:59] I don't want to be I'm not against

[55:01] anybody, but I don't if you have to make

[55:03] me against you, then I mean, it's just

[55:04] what it is. I'm gonna have to be, but

[55:06] I'm I I we all deserve it. It should be

[55:10] public. I haven't tried to bring it up

[55:11] until,

[55:11] » Like I said, we're we will look in and

[55:14] make sure that we follow these RSAs and

[55:19] and do it right there.

[55:20] » I'm going to send the RSA relevant to

[55:22] that. Until then, I'd asked him to not

[55:24] vote on any of my uh things moving

[55:28] forward. Uh because the thing is, if you

[55:32] don't think that suing his son

[55:35] is a reason to excuse himself,

[55:39] I don't know what to say. I do. Um and

[55:43] I'd like a realistic timeline.

[55:45] » You have a realistic timeline on what?

[55:48] on on you know because you say that

[55:50] Pete's working on it and you can't tell

[55:51] him when to do his job. I mean it was a

[55:53] whole year before he came into any board

[55:55] to ask any question. I think it's

[55:56] unrealistic for you guys for me to

[55:58] » Expect me to wait another year. I mean I

[56:00] feel like

[56:00] » It hasn't been silent for a year. Lorine

[56:04] » Zero communication

[56:05] » I know but there has been interdep

[56:07] departmental and

[56:09] » There has been communications. It's a

[56:12] matter of okay

[56:13] » And

[56:14] » I don't want to go down the whole thing

[56:15] but it a lot of this stuff does end up

[56:19] depending on where the property line is

[56:21] because how do you know where the buffer

[56:22] is if you don't know where the property

[56:23] line is if

[56:25] » I don't want to get into an argument

[56:26] about it.

[56:27] » No, but I looked at the ordinance and

[56:28] the ordinance doesn't say if something

[56:30] is working without a permit if if

[56:33] someone is to work on something whether

[56:35] it's on my property or his own. Let's

[56:37] say it was just Mr. Cormier's property

[56:38] that he was working on and I'm just

[56:40] Karen who lives next door. My neighbor's

[56:43] working on his driveway without

[56:45] permission. That still deserves

[56:47] investigation.

[56:49] And if you if the town contends that

[56:52] ownership is why you didn't investigate,

[56:54] I'd like to see that in the

[56:55] » There's plenty of documentation showing

[56:58] that there's been investigations, that

[57:00] there has been multiple visits to the

[57:03] site.

[57:03] » He says there's nothing in his file. As

[57:04] of when I was in here the other day,

[57:06] there was nothing in his file for my

[57:07] case. Zero. I entered all that stuff in

[57:10] there the other day manually with Evelyn

[57:14] piece by piece to make sure that they

[57:15] had every single thing and if there has

[57:17] been communication. That's part of why I

[57:19] asked for that in the 91A. I'd like to

[57:21] see it because it pertains

[57:23] » Well. I mean, some of it is going to be

[57:25] face-toface

[57:27] verbal communication. Hey, what's going

[57:30] on with

[57:32] Hybrbridge Road? Okay.

[57:34] » So, I can't provide any documentation on

[57:36] that, but I know that it this is not

[57:39] something that has been

[57:41] » Fallen off the radar. Neither has

[57:44] » The town.

[57:44] » It hasn't. It's But there's these pieces

[57:48] to it that as you said when you first

[57:50] sat down, this is very complex and I

[57:53] don't know how many court orders you

[57:54] said you have out there, right? Or

[57:57] » Filings. 10. Oh, my filings are

[58:00] » So I I'm just saying it it it's

[58:04] » That's the way

[58:05] » If the town if the town contends that

[58:08] they haven't worked on that working

[58:10] without a permit order even after the

[58:13] stuff came from the DOT and everything

[58:15] else like that because of the ownership

[58:16] issues. I would like them to cite that.

[58:20] » Well, I'm not

[58:21] » In the ordinances.

[58:22] » I'm not trying to say what Pete has

[58:25] done. I'm not trying to say that. All

[58:27] I'm all I'm saying is I know that this

[58:30] case has not been something that's been

[58:32] ignored. It's been on the mind of that's

[58:34] all I'm saying.

[58:35] » When someone brings a complaint, a

[58:37] public complaint forward,

[58:40] » Um under 91A, you're supposed to speak

[58:43] about all parts of that case public. Not

[58:45] only was I made aware of the 114 meeting

[58:48] that you guys were going to talk about

[58:49] it, you started out by saying, "We

[58:52] talked about this off there. It's a

[58:54] non-issue boundary thing." You just

[58:56] that's how the whole thing went. Then

[58:57] you ruled on it before I even came here.

[58:59] Somebody else told me that who was here

[59:01] that told me that you were here. I never

[59:02] got notice from anybody else that the

[59:03] hearing was going to happen which again

[59:05] is another violation and then just now

[59:08] » It was a followup and it was said the

[59:10] previous meeting we are going to look

[59:12] into this this week and we're going to

[59:14] take it up again next week.

[59:15] » It didn't say next week. I have the

[59:17] transcripts from the thing. It doesn't

[59:18] say that. We said we'll get back to you.

[59:19] Didn't say that. I was in the town

[59:21] office that day and Debbie Dean didn't

[59:22] say nothing about it. Anyways, my my

[59:25] whole thing is I mean you guys can see

[59:26] the transcripts yourself

[59:28] » But but the whole thing is is that

[59:31] » From that point forward nothing.

[59:33] » So even if there was things talked about

[59:35] like you said face to face that

[59:38] complaint was made in public at that

[59:41] moment there should be no more talking

[59:42] behind doors about it. It should be

[59:45] publicly addressed or

[59:47] » Or the board votes to talk about it in

[59:50] private discussion. No, but wasn't it

[59:52] public when we took it up again and we

[59:56] » The followup was,

[59:58] » Hey, the dumpsters are gone.

[1:00:02] There's no issue.

[1:00:06] That was the f first hearing and that's

[1:00:08] when we said, well, I mean,

[1:00:12] » The violation that the town the only

[1:00:15] violation the town would give me. I

[1:00:16] mean, if we were coming there for the

[1:00:17] just the dumpsters, that'd be great. But

[1:00:18] the thing that you were supposed to be

[1:00:20] doing was working without a permit.

[1:00:22] That's the two things that are open now

[1:00:24] is working without a permit.

[1:00:25] » I have the case right here, the number

[1:00:28] if you want it. It's still been open.

[1:00:31] That's two of them. So it wasn't

[1:00:33] driveway. It wasn't trash and hauling.

[1:00:35] That's what I tried to go in front of

[1:00:37] the zoning board with.

[1:00:38] » But that is what you came to us with.

[1:00:41] » Exactly. But Debbie Deon and the zoning

[1:00:43] board only put in front of there working

[1:00:45] without a permit. That's the only thing

[1:00:46] they came out of there. Not once was

[1:00:48] that other any of that addressed. The

[1:00:51] only thing that the trash and hauling

[1:00:53] was Mr. Cormier came in and tried to get

[1:00:55] a variance for that. But it still didn't

[1:00:59] address the work without a permit and

[1:01:01] still leaves my property open without

[1:01:02] any buffer.

[1:01:05] Anyways,

[1:01:06] you know,

[1:01:08] I want the works to I feel like having a

[1:01:10] realistic time frame. I mean,

[1:01:14] » What do you consider a realistic time

[1:01:16] frame? I mean, Pete Pete lives, we'll

[1:01:18] say, 10 minutes down the road. Anytime

[1:01:21] down in the next two weeks before your

[1:01:23] zoning board, this this hearing happens

[1:01:26] again,

[1:01:28] he should have been able to go over

[1:01:29] there. Even if it says that I it doesn't

[1:01:32] I haven't asked them to show me

[1:01:34] ownership, but I have given those

[1:01:35] documents to the town, the title

[1:01:37] insurance, the the survey from the USDA,

[1:01:40] all that other stuff. um I have given to

[1:01:43] the to the town and Pete should be able

[1:01:46] to make his own decision without the

[1:01:48] court. If Pete thinks or the board

[1:01:50] thinks that the court is needed for them

[1:01:52] to make a decision again, I want them to

[1:01:54] cite that in the ordinance where the

[1:01:56] court is needed for that to address the

[1:01:59] open town violation. It has nothing to

[1:02:02] do with the court.

[1:02:05] And so I I I think in next two weeks

[1:02:08] Pete should be able to go over there,

[1:02:10] especially where it says he has no

[1:02:12] ownership interest

[1:02:14] and address the work that at least

[1:02:17] happened from the date of that order.

[1:02:19] And I have pictures of before and after

[1:02:21] at least the date where the town put the

[1:02:23] violation in till now because that at

[1:02:27] least shows that he didn't even care

[1:02:29] what you guys had to say.

[1:02:36] There you go.

[1:02:39] » Have a good evening.

[1:02:42] » So, do we agree that, you know, in a

[1:02:45] couple of because I just said that about

[1:02:46] Pete. We didn't like really decide on a

[1:02:49] decent

[1:02:50] » A couple of weeks sounds very reasonable

[1:02:52] to me.

[1:02:52] » Check with Pete and see what the deal

[1:02:53] is.

[1:02:54] » But yeah,

[1:02:54] » I don't I have no idea what the position

[1:02:57] of the zoning board is on any of this. I

[1:02:59] don't know if they had a discussion

[1:03:01] about their own cease desist, which

[1:03:04] » I don't know. I don't know.

[1:03:06] » Yeah.

[1:03:06] » But their remedy for a cease to assist,

[1:03:08] if he continues to do, is to go to

[1:03:10] court. But you're already in court.

[1:03:11] That's why I was asking you, did you

[1:03:13] file a motion for contempt against the

[1:03:16] order that Mr. Cormier still

[1:03:19] » Yes. And I also, of course, termination

[1:03:21] of easement.

[1:03:22] » When was that filed?

[1:03:25] » Uh before this was I mean I don't know

[1:03:27] the exact date. It's been in there. But

[1:03:28] I just want to say I just hadn't I just

[1:03:30] had something or uh answered on that I

[1:03:33] filed 1018 2025.

[1:03:37] » So it's not fast.

[1:03:39] » Okay.

[1:03:39] » I wish that it was

[1:03:41] » It's not like Judge Judy at all. I don't

[1:03:43] have a lot of court experience.

[1:03:44] » I'm going to reiterate. I think two

[1:03:46] weeks sounds like a reasonable time

[1:03:48] period. However, I don't know the extent

[1:03:52] of

[1:03:53] » Of the work that he needs to do. If if

[1:03:55] if the if the board decides and I leave

[1:03:58] here because again

[1:04:02] » I don't want to make any ripples more

[1:04:03] than I'm already going to be making and

[1:04:06] you guys decide that you know we don't

[1:04:08] see under which this rule that Lorraine

[1:04:12] sent that this even applies to have a

[1:04:14] hearing. I think it's perfectly

[1:04:16] reasonable to ask him to recuse himself

[1:04:18] from him voting on my stuff because I

[1:04:20] worked really hard with that and it's

[1:04:22] just a couple of votes. He did vote with

[1:04:26] Cormier on a couple of things like one

[1:04:29] of them is going to put

[1:04:30] » It's not a popularity contest at the end

[1:04:32] of the day. All it is is what was the

[1:04:34] final decision and that was what my

[1:04:35] point was. It's not a matter of

[1:04:38] » If people that we put in front of us

[1:04:40] have should have a duty to listen to the

[1:04:42] citizens. Your board zoning all those to

[1:04:46] to follow the town ordinances and to

[1:04:48] listen to the people and for him to say

[1:04:50] things like 80% of what we say is

[1:04:52] irrelevant and in one ear the other when

[1:04:54] I'm suing his kid is tainting it's

[1:04:57] tainting it. It's cloudy.

[1:04:58] » But it was already the only thing

[1:05:01] they're supposed to do is to follow the

[1:05:03] ordinances. It matters not what the

[1:05:05] citizens say. If

[1:05:06] » I can just tell you that

[1:05:08] » They have to follow the rules, not the

[1:05:10] opinions, not the emotions.

[1:05:12] » And and

[1:05:13] » But I'd like I'd like to wind this down.

[1:05:15] » Yeah.

[1:05:15] » Um because Yeah.

[1:05:18] » I I believe you've made your point. Are

[1:05:20] you

[1:05:22] » Do you agree? Are you satisfied?

[1:05:23] » Yeah, I I'm satisfied. I hope that when

[1:05:25] I come back in a couple of weeks that

[1:05:27] we'll, you know, can have a realistic

[1:05:29] timeline for rolling production for the

[1:05:30] 91A, have something, you know, and I I

[1:05:33] don't I was very, you know, I didn't

[1:05:35] rush with the last ones. The last one

[1:05:37] took months to come in and I'm I'm fine

[1:05:39] with that, but those weren't complete.

[1:05:41] And I

[1:05:42] » Are they similar requests?

[1:05:44] » Two of Two were I mean, the bank records

[1:05:47] never came, Jason. Not one.

[1:05:49] » Yeah.

[1:05:51] That there was some issue with the PDF

[1:05:53] format. Yes, her her right to not

[1:05:56] request the other day was 31 pages long,

[1:05:59] 13 requests. It's probably about 10,000

[1:06:01] documents.

[1:06:02] » Yeah,

[1:06:02] » It will take years.

[1:06:04] » It wouldn't take years. Those are

[1:06:05] records that the town is required to

[1:06:07] have on hand.

[1:06:08] » But you have you have

[1:06:10] » The bank records are

[1:06:11] » You've brought

[1:06:13] are you satisfied that you brought your

[1:06:15] concerns to the board? The board is

[1:06:17] aware of what you would like the board

[1:06:19] to do because I like I said I would like

[1:06:21] to

[1:06:22] » No, no, no. I'm I'm I'm happy with

[1:06:24] everything, but you know,

[1:06:26] » Good.

[1:06:26] » Uh we we you know, I guess Jack, I don't

[1:06:29] know if you want to work on a realistic

[1:06:32] uh rolling production with me through

[1:06:33] email.

[1:06:34] » We can try to identify something.

[1:06:37] » I mean

[1:06:38] » I mean

[1:06:38] » That's that is typically how it's not

[1:06:42] usually handled.

[1:06:42] » Oh, I don't I'm not saying no. This is

[1:06:44] do within five days. But what I'm saying

[1:06:45] is those bank records and stuff like

[1:06:47] that, they're supposed to be here

[1:06:48] already. I don't need you to make me

[1:06:50] another copy. I'll come in and scan them

[1:06:51] my own self, my own equipment. You don't

[1:06:53] have to do anything except point me out

[1:06:55] and you can sit there along with me. I

[1:06:56] don't care. But I'm allowed to see the

[1:06:58] record. So is everybody else.

[1:07:00] » Thank you so much, Joe.

[1:07:03] » And no one disagrees with that, Larry.

[1:07:05] » Yeah, I I know that.

[1:07:07] » Listen,

[1:07:07] » That said, I can assure you we're not

[1:07:09] keeping that many documents. I mean,

[1:07:12] once the audit is over, we don't. It's

[1:07:14] just not enough for monitor to store all

[1:07:15] those documents.

[1:07:16] » Well, there's a legal requirement how

[1:07:17] long you're supposed to keep your

[1:07:19] especially bank records. those records

[1:07:21] legal requirement seven years. So I'm

[1:07:22] only asking for five.

[1:07:23] » Oh, okay.

[1:07:25] » So I

[1:07:27] » All right.

[1:07:28] » You know.

[1:07:29] » Yep.

[1:07:31] » Have a fabulous day, J.

[1:07:33] » All right.

[1:07:40] » You're quiet.

[1:07:42] » That's okay. We're moving on.

[1:07:46] » Budget. budget

[1:07:49] scheduling and processes.

[1:07:54] » Yeah, I I think it's useful to have um a

[1:07:58] little bit of a discussion about your

[1:08:00] thoughts on where you want the budget to

[1:08:02] be in terms of percentage increase. I

[1:08:04] mean, obviously the fuel costs have

[1:08:07] virtually doubled. That's huge given

[1:08:10] » If not tripled already.

[1:08:11] » Yeah. Um

[1:08:13] um and um you know it's really kind of

[1:08:18] your decision whether you want to stick

[1:08:20] with some sort of CPI or 4% or something

[1:08:24] uh with a cargo for energy or the

[1:08:28] non-discretion everything that we don't

[1:08:31] have a lot of control over

[1:08:33] just some some guidance for the FAC and

[1:08:36] staff would be be kind of helpful gives

[1:08:39] us a a goal to shoot for.

[1:08:47] » Well, definitely on the uncontrollables,

[1:08:49] we would, in my opinion, would need to

[1:08:53] see where the current

[1:08:56] prices are, especially with even

[1:08:59] utilities.

[1:09:01] Um,

[1:09:03] I know that power is another one that's

[1:09:06] going up.

[1:09:09] Um, you could pretty much All energy.

[1:09:12] » All energy. And I think uh

[1:09:17] last I remember did we was there

[1:09:20] something with the insurance

[1:09:22] that we were kind of getting tight on

[1:09:25] » The health insurance?

[1:09:26] » Probably the health insurance management

[1:09:27] that's always going to go up double

[1:09:29] digit it seems.

[1:09:31] » Um the uh primex rates the insurance for

[1:09:36] property liability workers compose

[1:09:40] those those fluctuate a little bit. I

[1:09:42] think actually workers comp might be

[1:09:43] headed downward a little bit.

[1:09:45] Unemployment I think might be down but

[1:09:47] it's offset on the other end but we

[1:09:49] it'll be u

[1:09:51] a little while longer before we we know

[1:09:53] what those rates are but you know it's

[1:09:56] pretty much claims driven.

[1:09:59] So that's I mean that's one of my

[1:10:01] concerns. Another another one would be

[1:10:04] um

[1:10:06] obviously as we kind of just heard is

[1:10:09] the town attorney

[1:10:12] legal legal line.

[1:10:16] » Um

[1:10:17] » My bet is you're going to have to

[1:10:18] increase that. It's a Yeah, I I can see

[1:10:22] where it's been

[1:10:25] unfortunate, but

[1:10:28] you know, the town has to have certain

[1:10:31] uh

[1:10:34] what do you call it? Representation. You

[1:10:36] got to have representation. So,

[1:10:39] that is one on my mind. And also I

[1:10:43] believe that

[1:10:45] these even though they are I don't know

[1:10:47] where we budgeted for but with these

[1:10:50] RTK's

[1:10:53] where does that does anybody know on

[1:10:56] this board like

[1:10:57] » I'm sorry

[1:10:58] » The right to know is that come in

[1:11:00] » Oh

[1:11:01] » Because it takes time it takes people's

[1:11:04] efforts to go find it.

[1:11:07] » Where where is that budgeted at?

[1:11:11] probably isn't really.

[1:11:13] » Yeah.

[1:11:13] » Yeah. I don't think there's no

[1:11:16] separating that out.

[1:11:17] » Yeah.

[1:11:18] » But I know from experience that it's

[1:11:21] comes out of legal.

[1:11:23] Um I don't know how much we've spent to

[1:11:27] date fil

[1:11:30] through our attorneys answering RTKs.

[1:11:34] It's in the thousands.

[1:11:36] » Yeah.

[1:11:38] And a lot of times

[1:11:41] they'll be presented and then we'll be

[1:11:45] presented with an RSA this and RSA that

[1:11:48] and RSA this says you have to have to

[1:11:50] have to have to and rather than take

[1:11:54] people's word for it, it's incumbent on

[1:11:56] us to ask our attorneys what is the

[1:11:59] proper course of action and so then

[1:12:04] fall into it as well.

[1:12:05] » Yeah.

[1:12:09] I'm looking at our

[1:12:12] expenditures for the year.

[1:12:22] I think our legal budget maybe I mean we

[1:12:26] have it broken down ZBA legal, planning

[1:12:30] board legal

[1:12:33] and BOS legal.

[1:12:38] I think the overall legal budget is

[1:12:41] okay

[1:12:44] from what I've seen

[1:12:47] combining the three. Now some years

[1:12:52] um ZBA legal has gone over and tap into

[1:12:56] BOS or maybe not gone over but it

[1:12:59] fluctuated.

[1:13:01] » Yeah. Because you can never predict

[1:13:02] who's going to appeal and where it's

[1:13:03] going to go. those sort of things.

[1:13:05] » Yeah.

[1:13:06] » Try to look at maybe a three-year

[1:13:07] average or something. Find a number that

[1:13:10] works.

[1:13:12] » Correct.

[1:13:14] » But definitely Yeah. on the fuel, the

[1:13:16] energy. Yeah. Energy and in general.

[1:13:19] » Yeah. And I believe the FAC when they

[1:13:21] start digging into this that that's

[1:13:24] going to be

[1:13:27] » An obvious increase.

[1:13:29] » Yeah. Big question for the board is um

[1:13:32] do we do cola raises?

[1:13:36] » Big question for the board is what

[1:13:38] » Is what kind of a do we want to

[1:13:43] is it important to the board to include

[1:13:45] a colaries for the employees this year?

[1:13:50] » We have some time to look for that.

[1:13:52] » We do have time. I want to get the

[1:13:55] the thought processes rolling right now.

[1:13:58] » Yeah. The numbers right now are I think

[1:14:00] it's 3.6.

[1:14:02] » That that's the inflationary number.

[1:14:05] » We had no color races last year.

[1:14:13] » So there was none.

[1:14:15] So now what?

[1:14:18] » I think was it on the um proposed

[1:14:21] budget?

[1:14:21] » Yeah.

[1:14:22] » And it got voted down.

[1:14:23] » Yeah.

[1:14:23] » Okay. So I think it's important to put a

[1:14:26] cola in. I mean I I think It gets a

[1:14:29] little problematic um from a recruiting

[1:14:32] and retention point of view to try to

[1:14:33] balance the entire town budget on the

[1:14:35] back of 20 employees.

[1:14:37] » I don't think that's particularly fair

[1:14:39] and it doesn't make you very attractive

[1:14:41] as a you're trying to hire and keep

[1:14:44] people. I mean, people need to make a

[1:14:47] living.

[1:14:49] Yeah.

[1:14:50] » And this is where I'm saying like

[1:14:52] there's a inflationary rate,

[1:14:55] but we kind of missed a year of

[1:14:57] inflationary increase.

[1:15:00] Should it be more?

[1:15:04] » And then again,

[1:15:05] » Let's see where it's going to go because

[1:15:07] there's going to be, you know,

[1:15:11] couple of votes coming up.

[1:15:14] » What do you mean?

[1:15:17] » Whenever Um we don't know

[1:15:22] how the legislature is going to start um

[1:15:26] coming up with you know whether it's

[1:15:29] predominantly we are going to be

[1:15:31] conservative or

[1:15:35] » But what would that have to do with

[1:15:37] » Because they're the voting body that

[1:15:39] actually sets those

[1:15:46] » Oh

[1:15:47] like social security administration and

[1:15:50] that

[1:15:53] » Right but we are the voting body that

[1:15:55] sets it for new switch

[1:15:57] » Right

[1:15:57] » We can say 10% cola if we want to

[1:16:00] » It sets it but

[1:16:03] typically um we follow the um the

[1:16:08] government

[1:16:09] » We have my point in bringing it up is do

[1:16:11] we want to go higher than that because

[1:16:13] we gave no increase

[1:16:15] » I'd say we don't know what higher is or

[1:16:18] or whether we can afford it.

[1:16:21] » That's probably the bot that's the

[1:16:22] bottom line and take it taking the the

[1:16:25] tone of the voters last year

[1:16:30] is

[1:16:30] » Yeah I think incre I think the the

[1:16:33] minimum is

[1:16:36] uh a better chance for people to vote um

[1:16:42] you know

[1:16:44] I think it's hard press trying to

[1:16:46] increase more but we don't know you know

[1:16:51] » We have to

[1:16:52] » Is there a range can we set up a

[1:16:55] » A two vote system

[1:16:57] » Well we are going to when once we start

[1:16:59] getting into the process

[1:17:02] » That's when

[1:17:04] you know what I'm saying

[1:17:05] » I wanted to just

[1:17:06] » Get the gears turning in our head what

[1:17:08] are we shooting for

[1:17:10] » I would like at least inflationary

[1:17:13] » Cola

[1:17:15] » I would say

[1:17:15] » Eyeball

[1:17:17] Um,

[1:17:18] » So just for preliminary purposes, like

[1:17:20] 3.5 just

[1:17:22] » Yeah. Well, like what Lou quoted, I just

[1:17:24] read that as well.

[1:17:27] » What' you say it was? 3.6.

[1:17:29] » 3.6.

[1:17:31] Um

[1:17:33] but then to somehow

[1:17:36] work the magic

[1:17:38] » Well, you know,

[1:17:39] » Keeping that

[1:17:41] that bottom line number that the

[1:17:43] taxpayers and the chairman are so

[1:17:45] concerned about still conservative while

[1:17:50] catching up on wages.

[1:17:53] » Well, we can ask the FA to just we can

[1:17:55] have just plug in a 3.5, see what that

[1:17:57] number is. If it needs to be less, then

[1:17:59] we make an adjustment. But at least to

[1:18:01] get give a a start

[1:18:03] » Starting point. Yeah.

[1:18:04] » Yeah. I mean obviously everything's

[1:18:06] going to be driven by the bottom line

[1:18:08] » And then you look up

[1:18:09] » I mean the idea is

[1:18:11] » Level funded.

[1:18:14] » That's the ideal. Taxpayers like level

[1:18:17] funded.

[1:18:18] » Well you you you can level fund but

[1:18:20] let's let's talk about the areas in

[1:18:22] which you would accept level funding

[1:18:24] like personnel, right? Not going to add

[1:18:27] any more people.

[1:18:29] So Denmark, yeah, Denmark does

[1:18:30] » Something like that.

[1:18:32] » But you also have to look at um let's

[1:18:35] say DPW, you've got some older uh

[1:18:38] equipment out there as such and that's

[1:18:42] going to have you

[1:18:45] could have a big impact

[1:18:48] » On the like the maintenance line.

[1:18:50] » Yeah. Well, they have a huge maintenance

[1:18:52] line and I think that's been that has

[1:18:55] been historically the way that the DPW

[1:18:57] has operated is with a huge maintenance

[1:19:00] line and run these things right to the

[1:19:02] ground.

[1:19:02] » We had a lot of trucks break down this

[1:19:05] » Dirt. I heard. Yeah.

[1:19:09] » But there could be speaking on that like

[1:19:11] on the DPW. Um

[1:19:14] I'm not sure if they do this or not, but

[1:19:18] would be like do do you know if they

[1:19:20] wash

[1:19:22] like try to get the salt off the trucks?

[1:19:24] » Yeah.

[1:19:25] » They got pressure washer.

[1:19:32] » What we typically got in what the

[1:19:36] Like on the trucks, have we gotten the

[1:19:39] lifespan of what we budget for or is it

[1:19:42] always

[1:19:43] » I mean we have

[1:19:44] » We have a CPI setup. I've got that

[1:19:47] » Right

[1:19:48] » At home.

[1:19:49] » Yeah.

[1:19:49] » But

[1:19:50] » But like say you buy a truck and you

[1:19:52] say, "Hey, this thing lasts seven

[1:19:53] years." Are we getting actually

[1:19:56] » The seven years out of them out of this

[1:19:58] equipment or is it

[1:20:00] » Is there is there an inventory?

[1:20:02] » You know what I'm saying? You know, it

[1:20:03] it all depends. Right now, we've got um

[1:20:06] I'm sorry. Did you want to say

[1:20:07] something?

[1:20:08] » No, no. I just asking if if there's an

[1:20:10] inventory that I mean,

[1:20:11] » Yeah, I've got a spreadsheet.

[1:20:13] » Usually, the CFA is going to have a list

[1:20:16] of the vehicles, the age of vehicles,

[1:20:17] the mileage,

[1:20:18] » Right? You know, and that kind of the

[1:20:20] lifetime try to plug that in the future

[1:20:23] year when you're think

[1:20:24] » That's what D wanted to go over with us

[1:20:27] last week. And again, that's you know, D

[1:20:30] and I have been working on that and um

[1:20:34] you know, we're looking at um

[1:20:38] let's just say a fire truck and that's

[1:20:41] going to be a couple million dollars.

[1:20:43] » Yeah.

[1:20:44] » And you know, today's money,

[1:20:46] » Right?

[1:20:46] » And that that's a big

[1:20:49] a big hit.

[1:20:51] Um you know, we have

[1:20:55] I think there's

[1:20:57] it either a backhoe or a grater. Um that

[1:21:02] was coming up that

[1:21:05] I think it was on

[1:21:09] was it

[1:21:10] we didn't pay outright for it but

[1:21:12] » Yeah the the

[1:21:14] » The loader

[1:21:15] » The loader

[1:21:15] » Has a lease to it.

[1:21:17] That's it. The load has a lease on and

[1:21:20] that's coming up for renewal or

[1:21:24] » Purchase.

[1:21:27] » Is it a lease purchase to own or no?

[1:21:29] » Yeah, it's a lease purchase.

[1:21:31] » Do you know if Whead how many years the

[1:21:33] lease was for?

[1:21:37] » Yeah, we've already had it for five or

[1:21:40] six years or more. One of the one of the

[1:21:42] to me one of the values of leasing is

[1:21:45] you stay in there.

[1:21:48] Your lease period is covered by warranty

[1:21:52] and at the end of the lease you turn it

[1:21:54] back in. You get a higher value

[1:21:58] and you get a newer piece of equipment

[1:22:00] but you mitigate the cost because the

[1:22:02] value of a seven year old is or sixy old

[1:22:06] is higher than it would be if you're 10

[1:22:08] years old.

[1:22:09] » You have a taller time up to that

[1:22:11] replacement. So,

[1:22:13] » As long as it's not broken mirrors and

[1:22:18] broken vendors,

[1:22:19] » Right? But that doesn't yield towards

[1:22:21] keeping it longer,

[1:22:22] » Right? No,

[1:22:24] » But what I'm saying is, you know, I kind

[1:22:27] if you can't cash,

[1:22:29] » Right?

[1:22:30] rolling through a lease period where

[1:22:32] your maintenance and your warranty

[1:22:34] align. You're you're you're turning over

[1:22:37] that equipment, your your fleet, your

[1:22:40] average fleet condition is actually

[1:22:42] better. You're stabilizing your debt

[1:22:45] because you're not keeping it and then

[1:22:47] climbing up the big hill, you know,

[1:22:49] thousands up to 250,000.

[1:22:52] » The questioning the value of

[1:22:54] » So it's a much more stable

[1:22:56] » For budgeting predictable. It's very

[1:22:59] ideal.

[1:22:59] » Yeah.

[1:23:00] » Okay.

[1:23:02] » Assuming you can't cash,

[1:23:03] » But what is the cost?

[1:23:05] » And that that's the thing is what is the

[1:23:07] final?

[1:23:08] » Yeah. We should look at some of that too

[1:23:10] because

[1:23:10] » Well the big difference is either three

[1:23:12] or 4% whatever the lease cost is. Other

[1:23:14] than that it's a piece of equipment.

[1:23:16] Somebody's got to pay for it. The price

[1:23:17] of the equipment is what it is. The only

[1:23:19] thing that really varies is the interest

[1:23:22] charge. The interest charge is obviously

[1:23:26] an addition, but frankly it is no

[1:23:29] different than the opportunity cost. If

[1:23:32] you saved up that money and use the

[1:23:35] interest over the years of the

[1:23:36] contribution, it's the same thing.

[1:23:38] You're just one way or another, you're

[1:23:40] taking that money out of circulation,

[1:23:41] right?

[1:23:41] » You're going to get some interest on it.

[1:23:43] » So, it's really about can you afford the

[1:23:46] equipment that you think you need or

[1:23:48] must have

[1:23:49] » And then how you going to get there?

[1:23:51] because if you don't have the cash,

[1:23:53] you're going to have to borrow somebody

[1:23:54] else's money.

[1:23:56] » And another thing to look at with

[1:23:58] leasing is to

[1:24:01] um

[1:24:03] with nowadays equipment especially, you

[1:24:05] know, back in the day, 80s, 90s, a lot

[1:24:09] of people could work on exactly

[1:24:11] » Your own piece of equipment very easily.

[1:24:13] » Exactly.

[1:24:14] nowadays

[1:24:15] » 2,000

[1:24:16] » There's no way you

[1:24:17] » Right

[1:24:18] » And and even if you take it to a shop

[1:24:20] » Right

[1:24:21] » I mean just for them to look at it is

[1:24:23] another

[1:24:24] » Right

[1:24:25] » You know $500 just to look at it

[1:24:27] » And that that comes back to uh the

[1:24:29] concept of a lease that has perhaps an

[1:24:34] extended warranty and a maintenance

[1:24:35] built in because there is not much you

[1:24:38] can do on these these days

[1:24:39] » You know two or three $4,000 controllers

[1:24:41] and 200 microprocessors and all that

[1:24:45] stuff,

[1:24:46] » Deaf systems.

[1:24:47] » Yeah.

[1:24:48] » I mean,

[1:24:49] » That has 10 grand a piece

[1:24:51] » And that has really hit

[1:24:53] » Cars also.

[1:24:54] » I mean, yeah.

[1:24:56] » You know, uh if you have a Volvo, you

[1:24:59] can't change the oil on it. You have to

[1:25:01] take it into a Volvo dealership.

[1:25:04] » Wow. Yeah.

[1:25:05] It's becoming encompassed that when you

[1:25:09] buy the equipment, you almost have to

[1:25:12] buy their maintenance package.

[1:25:14] » Sure. Correct. No, you do.

[1:25:15] » If you're trying to do it outside of it,

[1:25:17] you're you're almost

[1:25:19] » Losing at that point.

[1:25:21] » Yeah.

[1:25:22] » But that ties back to your maintenance

[1:25:24] cost because ultimately,

[1:25:25] » Right,

[1:25:26] » You spend you can spend an inordinate

[1:25:28] amount on maintenance,

[1:25:29] » Right?

[1:25:30] » And once the truck is down, it's down,

[1:25:32] » Right? down until a part comes in and

[1:25:34] down until it gets fixed.

[1:25:36] » Well, then you don't have it.

[1:25:37] Particularly if you're in the middle of

[1:25:38] winter,

[1:25:39] » Right?

[1:25:40] » And and another thing with leasing, I

[1:25:43] mean, these are the pros, there is cons,

[1:25:45] but is if you do lease a piece of

[1:25:48] equipment, a lot of times if you set it

[1:25:51] up with whatever dealer, wherever you

[1:25:53] buy it from, if your piece of equipment

[1:25:56] goes down, a lot of times they'll give

[1:25:59] you a borrowed replacement while this in

[1:26:02] the shop if they're on if you're under

[1:26:05] their maintenance program. If you're

[1:26:07] not, if you just buy it outright and say

[1:26:09] no,

[1:26:11] » You're you're up, you know, you're on

[1:26:13] your own then at that point.

[1:26:15] » So,

[1:26:17] » I see a lot more communities leasing

[1:26:20] because with with taxpayer and budget

[1:26:23] sensitivity, there simply is not the

[1:26:24] opportunity to contribute a whole bunch

[1:26:26] of cash here

[1:26:28] » To build up for purchase five years down

[1:26:30] the road. It's just it's just not what

[1:26:34] people have enough cash for. Some

[1:26:36] communities can do it, but

[1:26:37] » Right

[1:26:38] » It's it's not always the case.

[1:26:40] » Jack, well, I can send a copy of of

[1:26:44] » I would like it. Yeah. If you have

[1:26:45] something that has our

[1:26:48] » This is what D was going to present to

[1:26:51] us.

[1:26:51] » So, you have that.

[1:26:52] » You want me to

[1:26:53] » Yeah. forward it to

[1:26:55] » Yeah. because I'd like to at least study

[1:26:56] it before and have a knowledge of what

[1:27:00] what we're dealing with

[1:27:04] prior.

[1:27:07] So, yeah, that might be an option to

[1:27:10] look at the newer stuff coming up that's

[1:27:13] for it is to look at what I don't even

[1:27:15] know what they are, what the

[1:27:19] » Personally I haven't seen what the

[1:27:22] dealers do nowadays or not. Yeah, when

[1:27:25] we got a greater um the last time

[1:27:29] um it was one of those things that um

[1:27:33] that was when there was that big slump

[1:27:35] on on equipment coming in from.

[1:27:38] » Yeah.

[1:27:39] » And um it was one of those that you know

[1:27:45] they gave you a certain price one week

[1:27:48] and maybe two weeks later uh there was

[1:27:51] an extra 10 or $15,000 attached to

[1:27:53] » Yeah.

[1:27:54] And that hap that happened in

[1:27:56] incremental steps until each uh each

[1:28:00] month they were making an you know an

[1:28:03] extra almost $5,000 $10,000 on them

[1:28:06] because there was a shortage of

[1:28:07] equipment.

[1:28:08] » Yeah.

[1:28:10] » People selling were actually making

[1:28:13] money

[1:28:13] » Money.

[1:28:19] And so the the dates the critical dates

[1:28:22] that we're looking for

[1:28:27] the for this budget process to have the

[1:28:30] budget hearing. I think we have the NHMA

[1:28:34] paper somewhere. I don't know if this is

[1:28:37] burned into your head.

[1:28:38] » Well, if we well if we back it up a bit.

[1:28:41] I mean, you're you're certainly

[1:28:45] going to wrap up these budget

[1:28:49] discussions in November and December,

[1:28:53] and you'll put together a proposed 2027

[1:28:57] budget and send it off to the DRA with

[1:29:02] the draft warrant articles for them to

[1:29:05] review. You'll schedule your public

[1:29:07] hearing on the budget sometime in

[1:29:09] January.

[1:29:11] And um

[1:29:13] and then you'll head into town meeting

[1:29:17] » With whatever

[1:29:19] changes to the budget flow from the

[1:29:22] public hearing and then town meeting

[1:29:24] will

[1:29:26] » Session.

[1:29:27] » Yeah.

[1:29:29] And then that budget that actually gets

[1:29:33] approved goes on a different form goes

[1:29:35] back to DRA as the difference between

[1:29:38] the proposed budget that you showed them

[1:29:41] in January and the actual budget that

[1:29:43] flowed out of town meeting.

[1:29:46] » And so whatever flows out of town

[1:29:48] meeting, you have 30 days to send that

[1:29:50] to them.

[1:29:52] » When is that?

[1:29:53] » So when should we do the proposed

[1:29:55] budget?

[1:29:55] » This is what I was just going to say.

[1:29:57] When is the earliest this state dictates

[1:30:02] time slots of when you can have your

[1:30:04] budget hearing and when you can have

[1:30:06] your deliberative hearing.

[1:30:09] I should have had that.

[1:30:10] » Well, that'll be in January sometime.

[1:30:12] » The budget hearing.

[1:30:17] » We want I would like to see it as early

[1:30:19] as possible.

[1:30:22] So I did send se Stephanie an email

[1:30:26] inquiring and suggesting we get together

[1:30:28] to see what meeting schedule and what

[1:30:32] the plan is for FAC to I don't know what

[1:30:36] they've done with department head so far

[1:30:38] and I think they've had some meetings

[1:30:39] but highway I think but

[1:30:43] » I just happened to be talking to DPW I

[1:30:46] think he said he wasn't meeting until

[1:30:48] next week or something so it's coming

[1:30:52] Yeah. And I talked with the fire chief.

[1:30:54] He said they're they're willing to

[1:30:57] working on it

[1:30:59] just within the department. He didn't

[1:31:01] mention FAC.

[1:31:03] » So we we'll get a calendar and try to

[1:31:05] get a sense of when they're when the FAC

[1:31:07] is going to be done basically how

[1:31:11] they're going to communicate with you

[1:31:13] guys,

[1:31:13] » Right?

[1:31:16] I mean presumably um

[1:31:20] I imagine the planning board will have a

[1:31:22] hearing on the CIP.

[1:31:25] » That's what I've got the the

[1:31:26] spreadsheet.

[1:31:27] » Okay. And do you know if there's a date

[1:31:29] yet for that

[1:31:32] » For

[1:31:33] » For the planning board to hold a public

[1:31:34] hearing on the capital improvement?

[1:31:36] » I don't know. I don't know at what

[1:31:39] point.

[1:31:39] » Okay.

[1:31:41] So we'll have to figure that out. It'll

[1:31:43] probably be another

[1:31:45] six weeks or so.

[1:31:46] » Sure. That's fine. Plenty of time.

[1:31:51] » But that'll help you understand from a

[1:31:53] budgetary point of view what sort of

[1:31:54] funds need to be contributed to the

[1:31:56] capital plan in order.

[1:31:57] » This is the capital reserve accounts.

[1:32:00] » Yeah.

[1:32:01] » Right.

[1:32:01] » Which we talked before that we'd like to

[1:32:05] split them up.

[1:32:06] » Right.

[1:32:06] » Now, last year we had um emergency

[1:32:10] services putting in that

[1:32:13] Yeah. And I asked the chief if that was

[1:32:16] in the works still and he said he would

[1:32:18] look into it with EMD.

[1:32:21] » Yeah. Because that that, you know, was a

[1:32:25] hard one to try to push. I found it to

[1:32:29] be the most

[1:32:33] logical way to push

[1:32:36] was to make use of that

[1:32:40] cell phone into that tower to fill in

[1:32:45] these huge blank spots for DPW,

[1:32:48] ambulance, fire, police. And then

[1:32:51] besides all that, they're going to

[1:32:53] consolidate because I guess there's some

[1:32:55] different um

[1:32:58] companies being used.

[1:33:00] » You know, if they do that, they're going

[1:33:02] to need a whole lot of extra money on

[1:33:04] radios and stuff because it's a

[1:33:06] different frequency range.

[1:33:09] » To me, it's just something that

[1:33:12] » So, you have propagation issues with DPW

[1:33:15] communications. Well, DPW, fire, police,

[1:33:19] all of them

[1:33:20] » They work on separate separate frequency

[1:33:23] and

[1:33:24] » But this would consolidate

[1:33:25] » Dis and also dispatch,

[1:33:29] » Right? But but are we saying that there

[1:33:30] are there are coverage gaps?

[1:33:33] » Oh yeah.

[1:33:33] » Yes.

[1:33:34] » Okay.

[1:33:35] » Because of the terrain obviously.

[1:33:37] » Yeah. because we were kind of surrounded

[1:33:39] by hills and they we just I say just

[1:33:42] within the last 5 years put that tower

[1:33:44] up

[1:33:46] » On top of one of the hills which will

[1:33:49] eliminate a lot of the gaps but last

[1:33:52] year

[1:33:53] » Was a no no

[1:33:55] » Year and so it

[1:33:57] » It was killed

[1:33:59] » Um

[1:33:59] » You remember what it lost by

[1:34:01] » I could look it should be right in there

[1:34:04] » I don't

[1:34:05] » In the yellow the hot spot This is This

[1:34:08] is the

[1:34:09] » Oh, no. Yeah.

[1:34:11] » That's right.

[1:34:14] » The final.

[1:34:15] » Yeah.

[1:34:15] » The number was 131,000,

[1:34:19] » Right? But do you remember the votes

[1:34:20] like

[1:34:21] » How it came through?

[1:34:23] » Yeah.

[1:34:26] » I think

[1:34:29] with Jason, there was a no no.

[1:34:32] » That's all we saw,

[1:34:35] » Right? I think there was a

[1:34:39] remember what book it was. There was a

[1:34:43] book that show

[1:34:45] » What them results.

[1:34:46] » What the results were. Maybe I got an

[1:34:48] email.

[1:34:50] » Yeah, it might be on the email.

[1:34:53] » There was probably a total written

[1:34:56] ballot that your

[1:34:58] » Yeah, I think I'm talking talking to is

[1:35:01] it Eric Maxwell?

[1:35:04] That's the MD

[1:35:07] director.

[1:35:08] » Yeah.

[1:35:10] » What about it?

[1:35:12] » Oh, to get the the proper numbers in.

[1:35:16] » Oh, yeah. I don't know if he would have

[1:35:20] » Let's see. Attach their election results

[1:35:23] from town and school.

[1:35:27] And then there's a whole thing with um

[1:35:31] » Dispatches because um

[1:35:35] you know the fire department and police

[1:35:37] department were at one point using

[1:35:41] different dispatch

[1:35:48] » But I'm hoping to see that service also.

[1:35:50] » I am hoping to see that on the warrant

[1:35:52] again this year. I think it's

[1:35:58] worthwhile.

[1:36:00] » Well, that that'll be helpful

[1:36:02] then for me

[1:36:06] to get a sense from you what warrant

[1:36:08] articles

[1:36:09] you want to revisit so that we can begin

[1:36:14] to draft those and get them reviewed by

[1:36:16] council anytime.

[1:36:18] » But so you you guys have a lot more of

[1:36:20] that history obviously. So

[1:36:23] » Yeah, I mean Obviously budget, roads,

[1:36:26] roads, road committee will typically

[1:36:29] meet

[1:36:30] » And determine what they want to ask the

[1:36:32] taxpayers

[1:36:34] and then the select and review it. But

[1:36:37] you would be the leaison there. Capital

[1:36:40] reserves would want to hear from D.

[1:36:43] The email will be helpful

[1:36:47] and then probably breaking it off

[1:36:52] DPW which would be

[1:36:57] the first two and then fire the next

[1:36:59] three.

[1:37:02] So we'd have one,

[1:37:05] two,

[1:37:06] » And we have to look at what equipment's

[1:37:08] the oldest.

[1:37:09] » We'd have four capital reserve funds,

[1:37:16] four separate articles. How I see it

[1:37:21] highway and building is one.

[1:37:26] Fire

[1:37:29] Fire Department Capital Reserve, Fire

[1:37:31] Protection Capital Reserve, and the Fire

[1:37:33] Department Communications Capital

[1:37:35] Reserve all one warrant one article.

[1:37:40] » You put the the three on one.

[1:37:44] » I would.

[1:37:45] » Yeah.

[1:37:46] » I mean,

[1:37:48] category

[1:37:49] » Just

[1:37:50] » Yeah.

[1:37:52] » Would you do parks and rec one.

[1:37:54] » I'd combine them.

[1:37:57] » You agree?

[1:37:58] » I'm sorry. I was thinking something

[1:38:00] else. Was that again, please?

[1:38:03] » We're just saying which ones would be

[1:38:05] combined.

[1:38:07] » Would you keep the building maintenance

[1:38:09] and as a separate?

[1:38:11] » I wouldn't.

[1:38:12] » You'd put it as

[1:38:14] » I'd put it right with highway.

[1:38:17] » Really?

[1:38:18] » Well, they all fall under DPW.

[1:38:21] » Yeah.

[1:38:23] But I mean

[1:38:25] you I just don't know the history but

[1:38:27] the highway department expendable trust

[1:38:29] fund would that be fundamentally for

[1:38:31] equipment.

[1:38:32] » Yeah.

[1:38:33] » And the building might also just be for

[1:38:36] buildings like

[1:38:38] building two or building or

[1:38:42] » So

[1:38:43] um

[1:38:46] subcategories

[1:38:48] they are I mean the thought is is that

[1:38:51] maybe So last year there was an attempt

[1:38:53] to um amend these but it kind of got

[1:38:57] sidetracked

[1:39:00] with I don't know

[1:39:02] different conversations the the

[1:39:05] conversation got steered but it was an

[1:39:07] attempt to break them up. Um and

[1:39:12] I think

[1:39:13] » I do I do like the idea of breaking them

[1:39:15] out. That's a lot for people to get

[1:39:17] their head around it. And if you just

[1:39:19] don't like one or two, the only option

[1:39:21] is to either make a motion to amend it

[1:39:23] on the floor

[1:39:24] » Or strike the whole thing, which case

[1:39:27] » You'll lose the things you like as well

[1:39:28] as

[1:39:29] » This is what I that's what my thought

[1:39:31] process was was rather than have eight

[1:39:35] separate articles.

[1:39:38] If somebody cares about it, if they say,

[1:39:40] "Hey, they're not keeping up on the

[1:39:42] building maintenance. We need to double

[1:39:44] it." They can do that at deliberative

[1:39:47] session. Of course, when it comes to the

[1:39:49] March B,

[1:39:52] » It would you would lose your highway

[1:39:54] department. So that that one there is

[1:39:56] questionable. Yeah.

[1:39:57] » It also comes back to the how the

[1:39:58] planning board presents the CIP plan to

[1:40:01] underscore

[1:40:03] » Um

[1:40:04] » The need for these

[1:40:05] » The need like on the maintenance I mean

[1:40:10] and recreation. I mean I guess there's a

[1:40:12] building down at the pool that's

[1:40:17] » Yeah. And there's some work to be done

[1:40:19] over there.

[1:40:19] » Yeah, the filter house is full.

[1:40:21] » And we still have to put the uh the

[1:40:23] playground

[1:40:24] uh in

[1:40:27] that the one that um some some kids got

[1:40:30] two kids got

[1:40:34] hurt on it because a plastic bro had

[1:40:37] broken or split at one point.

[1:40:40] » Yeah.

[1:40:41] » And u

[1:40:43] caused two injuries on two people.

[1:40:47] I would hate to see nine separate

[1:40:49] articles.

[1:40:51] » No, no, I don't think you need to. I

[1:40:52] mean, I think you can do fine with You

[1:40:55] probably could use four or five, though.

[1:40:57] » There's five.

[1:40:57] » I mean, your revaluation

[1:41:00] » Is pretty easily described. I'm

[1:41:02] presuming that

[1:41:03] » You got to save up a little bit of money

[1:41:05] so that every five years you can go

[1:41:06] through the revaluation process. That's

[1:41:08] the whole and um

[1:41:10] » And you have to look at putting some

[1:41:12] money aside for

[1:41:15] for the fire trucks.

[1:41:16] » Oh, absolutely.

[1:41:19] » Or what about tying fire and police

[1:41:21] together?

[1:41:24] » Yeah, they won't go over.

[1:41:27] » Well, that's like oil and water.

[1:41:29] » Yeah.

[1:41:30] » No, it's not quite.

[1:41:33] I I suppose like fire might say, "Hey,

[1:41:38] we don't want to lose our whole article

[1:41:39] just because someone doesn't want the

[1:41:41] $5,000

[1:41:42] » Communic." So, there's them kind of

[1:41:44] arguments to be made, but I think it'd

[1:41:46] be taking a good good step if we had

[1:41:49] five separate articles.

[1:41:51] » I don't know if I want to go to nine

[1:41:53] separate.

[1:41:55] » Yeah.

[1:41:57] Yeah, I know what you mean. But

[1:42:03] if you combine the three fire

[1:42:07] and um

[1:42:09] obviously you could suffer through six

[1:42:13] amendments

[1:42:14] to lower the one, raise the other and

[1:42:16] reduce the other in order to get an

[1:42:18] aggregate total.

[1:42:20] Um

[1:42:23] but you almost the communications

[1:42:29] shouldn't be on its own

[1:42:32] or I I don't know, you know, it's it's

[1:42:34] it's an unanswerable question about what

[1:42:36] they all rise and fall.

[1:42:38] » Communication should be separate

[1:42:41] um simply because um if you end up

[1:42:45] changing

[1:42:47] one department that has a certain

[1:42:49] frequency, you're going to have to uh

[1:42:53] change, you know, all of the equipment

[1:42:57] on there.

[1:43:04] » Yeah. So, that's what we'll do. We'll

[1:43:06] look at doing minimum product around

[1:43:10] that.

[1:43:11] » I think we've got most of the uh radios

[1:43:15] um in there that there might be another

[1:43:19] 10 or 20 radios that uh

[1:43:23] might more emergency services goes into

[1:43:27] a different frequency also.

[1:43:31] » I do.

[1:43:36] » Yeah. I can't answer

[1:43:43] on the other stuff.

[1:43:45] » Yeah.

[1:43:47] But then I think article 10 and 11 from

[1:43:49] last year are going to they'll be

[1:43:52] presented to us

[1:43:54] by both.

[1:43:55] » Did you did you see I think there's

[1:43:57] another town that they ended up using

[1:44:01] Peterbor for their

[1:44:03] town range.

[1:44:04] » Yeah. Ranges.

[1:44:06] » I don't quite understand that

[1:44:08] » They're using Peter as an ambulance

[1:44:10] service.

[1:44:11] » Scratch their service.

[1:44:14] » That's the that's the thought. And

[1:44:18] To me, it doesn't make any sense because

[1:44:20] what they've done now is they've doubled

[1:44:23] the response time and they've doubled

[1:44:25] the travel distance to get an ambulance

[1:44:26] to the house.

[1:44:27] » Makes no sense.

[1:44:28] » Yep.

[1:44:29] » To me,

[1:44:30] » You know, I your response time.

[1:44:33] » They just finished building

[1:44:36] I'm sorry. They just finished building a

[1:44:38] new um firehouse, I believe, or police

[1:44:41] station. Peter

[1:44:43] Peter.

[1:44:44] » Peter. Yeah.

[1:44:45] » Yeah.

[1:44:46] and that took quite a bit of money away

[1:44:50] from them.

[1:44:51] » But I think what happened I'm not sure

[1:44:53] I'm just going off of opinion or reading

[1:44:56] article about it or whatever, but they

[1:44:58] said something about maybe that the

[1:45:01] their ambulance service was um

[1:45:05] proposing a pretty high increase in

[1:45:07] budget. I think it came close to the

[1:45:09] » Yeah,

[1:45:10] » I'm sorry. Have a high interest in what?

[1:45:14] Don't quote me on it. From what I read

[1:45:16] on the article, I believe that ring is

[1:45:22] ambulance service when they were they

[1:45:25] were increasing or having increased

[1:45:28] costs

[1:45:29] » And it was getting close to where the

[1:45:31] Peterborough would do it and so they

[1:45:34] voted and or they're

[1:45:36] » No, I I know Peter is pretty close to to

[1:45:40] ranch.

[1:45:40] » Yeah.

[1:45:41] » Well, it's twice as many miles and takes

[1:45:43] twice as long.

[1:45:45] » Yeah, because it was from Jeffrey.

[1:45:46] » They were literally right next door.

[1:45:50] » Economically, it might make sense for a

[1:45:52] year,

[1:45:53] » But at the end of the day, no matter who

[1:45:55] you are,

[1:45:56] » It costs a million dollars a year to

[1:45:58] staff an ambulance 247.

[1:45:59] » Oh, yeah.

[1:46:00] » The ambulance cost is the same. The

[1:46:01] labor cost is the same. The retirement

[1:46:03] cost is the same.

[1:46:04] » And we're paying 162,000

[1:46:07] » 65

[1:46:09] 165

[1:46:10] » 165. Yeah.

[1:46:12] For me, that's a hell of a deal.

[1:46:14] » It is. You just can't.

[1:46:16] » Yeah.

[1:46:17] » Yeah. You You can't u shortcut the u

[1:46:20] » The ambulance.

[1:46:22] » Yeah.

[1:46:23] » So, I guess department.

[1:46:27] » So, yeah. Article 10 and 11, ambulance

[1:46:29] and library, they'll come to us.

[1:46:31] » Mhm.

[1:46:32] » We don't need article 12.

[1:46:34] » So, that just comes from SVA. Yes.

[1:46:37] » They'll come library trustees. They'll

[1:46:40] present as well.

[1:46:42] So article 14 is that cell tower

[1:46:48] » Which we need EMD to let us know what

[1:46:52] they want if they revisited a price

[1:47:00] 15 is gone

[1:47:06] 16 chief hasn't said I would think by

[1:47:10] the way the came in. We're not going to

[1:47:13] put that on. That was the seventh

[1:47:15] full-time officer.

[1:47:17] » Oh, yeah.

[1:47:19] » And the other ones are

[1:47:23] » Yeah. Failed.

[1:47:26] » Yeah. All the other ones are petitioned

[1:47:28] warrant articles, so we have

[1:47:30] » Nothing to do with them.

[1:47:33] We'll see what the

[1:47:34] » And do you have outside agencies that

[1:47:35] you fund

[1:47:37] » Like home healthare or

[1:47:39] » Oh, that was a petition warnition.

[1:47:41] » We had that discussion. I think you and

[1:47:44] I went back and forth.

[1:47:45] » Probably did. Yeah.

[1:47:46] » Yeah. And I said, "Hey, that's we don't

[1:47:49] we don't go around pointing guns at

[1:47:50] people and saying donate to my cause."

[1:47:54] » That's my thought on it. I'm told.

[1:47:57] » But you could still get a petition to

[1:47:58] warrant article.

[1:48:00] » No doubt.

[1:48:01] » No doubt. And I think if we don't

[1:48:03] include it on this warrant,

[1:48:05] um there will be

[1:48:08] » Sure.

[1:48:08] » Yeah.

[1:48:10] » That's up to the board. If the board

[1:48:11] says, "Hey, we want to include it."

[1:48:13] » Um I wouldn't

[1:48:15] » I haven't seen anything to convince me

[1:48:17] to change my mind. But

[1:48:19] » There is two other members and

[1:48:20] » I've seen it go both ways and you know

[1:48:23] the towns where where they

[1:48:27] » Get a petition to warrant article you're

[1:48:29] getting 15 25 people that want it versus

[1:48:33] aborted and so it's potentially a better

[1:48:36] reflection of the community values the

[1:48:38] more people that

[1:48:39] » And that's what happened last time

[1:48:42] was that um he went on his little um

[1:48:47] twoour sermon

[1:48:49] and

[1:48:50] » On the on the injustice of

[1:48:52] » And

[1:48:55] force donations.

[1:48:56] » Then the people from the audience um

[1:48:59] came over and shot him down.

[1:49:01] » Beat him up.

[1:49:02] » They didn't beat me up. I'm still

[1:49:04] standing.

[1:49:06] » And I think people don't really fully

[1:49:11] » Don't go there. I don't want to go

[1:49:14] through another two hour session. Wow.

[1:49:16] We got I mean this is

[1:49:18] » How about you give me like 45 minutes?

[1:49:21] » About about 45 seconds.

[1:49:23] » All right.

[1:49:24] » Time out

[1:49:24] » Right here.

[1:49:25] » It's all right there. Lou, read it on

[1:49:27] your own time. You'll see a reason for

[1:49:29] not doing it.

[1:49:30] » But you know what? How old is that? How

[1:49:32] old is that piece of paper?

[1:49:33] » Oh, I don't have time to do this.

[1:49:38] » All right. Things have changed.

[1:49:41] You do not want to be on that road with

[1:49:44] me, Lou, because that is things

[1:49:47] » If things have changed

[1:49:49] » With that

[1:49:51] » Kind of philosophy.

[1:49:54] Things people have changed philosophy,

[1:49:58] » But that philosophy

[1:49:59] » That's the written word up there,

[1:50:00] » Huh?

[1:50:01] » That's the written word.

[1:50:03] » That philosophy remains a foundation of

[1:50:06] this country. In spite of half the

[1:50:09] country disagreeing with it, it still is

[1:50:12] a foundation of this country.

[1:50:13] » And that half a country has the right to

[1:50:18] » Go down this road.

[1:50:20] » I I figured I could bring

[1:50:22] » I knew I could lure him in somehow. Lou,

[1:50:25] buckle up. Here we go.

[1:50:28] » Anything else on the

[1:50:30] » On the warrant?

[1:50:33] » You budget?

[1:50:34] » Yeah.

[1:50:34] » Okay.

[1:50:35] » That's helpful. the budget we want to

[1:50:37] keep. I mean, you had said at another

[1:50:40] meeting, no more than 10%, but 10%'s

[1:50:43] huge.

[1:50:44] » Oh, I I would never I don't

[1:50:46] » Increase over our default. We have to

[1:50:48] have less than

[1:50:50] » Substantially less.

[1:50:52] » Yeah.

[1:50:52] » And how that comes

[1:50:55] » If you

[1:50:56] » Other pieces fall in place.

[1:50:57] » Yeah. Well, how the people vote is also

[1:51:00] going to be dependent on what the school

[1:51:03] budget's going to be

[1:51:05] » To some degree.

[1:51:08] » It's inevitable and nothing that we can

[1:51:09] do about it.

[1:51:10] » That's true.

[1:51:11] » Yeah. So, that's just some an

[1:51:13] uncontrollable

[1:51:17] » Very I mean I I think that that the

[1:51:19] burden's going to be to balance the

[1:51:22] energy utility

[1:51:25] uh costs and insurance. others that are

[1:51:28] taking to mitigate those increases to

[1:51:31] stay within a single digit four to 5%

[1:51:34] overall budget increase

[1:51:37] » And kind of that pressure. Um

[1:51:41] that would be where the magic is.

[1:51:43] » There was one other thing that I brought

[1:51:44] up and I don't know what these

[1:51:47] it was. We're just voicing our opinions.

[1:51:49] Maybe now would be a good time to see if

[1:51:51] we could repeal

[1:51:54] uh

[1:51:55] the Warren article that forbids

[1:51:58] selectmen

[1:51:59] to give raises if it's a default budget.

[1:52:03] I would like that repealed and have the

[1:52:07] ability to manage.

[1:52:08] » Now we finally agreed some with

[1:52:10] something.

[1:52:11] » Well, did

[1:52:11] » So I don't know what the verbiage has to

[1:52:13] be on that to allow the voters a chance

[1:52:16] to revisit that.

[1:52:19] Didn't Didn't you get a legal opinion

[1:52:20] that was binding?

[1:52:22] » Yeah,

[1:52:22] » Alan has weighed in on it at every legal

[1:52:27] opinion.

[1:52:28] » No, one wrote it.

[1:52:30] » Well,

[1:52:33] he wrote the article and has weighed in

[1:52:36] on every legal opinion that's been

[1:52:37] offered up, which the first one said,

[1:52:41] "You'd do well to take this as a um what

[1:52:45] do you call that? Referendo."

[1:52:47] And I and I look at just to briefly

[1:52:50] speak on the petition warrant articles,

[1:52:52] I do look at like um article 21 petition

[1:52:57] strict operating budget increase

[1:52:59] limitation policy. This thing was done

[1:53:01] with the CPI. Um I see that very much as

[1:53:05] a hey listen to us because it passed

[1:53:09] overwhelmingly.

[1:53:11] Some of the other ones

[1:53:15] and

[1:53:17] Not so much as

[1:53:18] » Well you you you know there's nothing

[1:53:20] wrong with trying to stay within the CPI

[1:53:22] to the to the extent that you're

[1:53:25] controlling the things measured by the

[1:53:26] CPI.

[1:53:27] » Yeah. And that's the thing

[1:53:29] » That's the thing the CPI I guess it's

[1:53:32] some measure

[1:53:34] » But it's not necessarily applicable to

[1:53:36] municipal

[1:53:38] » Budgeting.

[1:53:40] But I do take something like that and

[1:53:42] that's where I say, "Yeah, we can't we

[1:53:44] can't go 10%."

[1:53:47] » How that comes to be?

[1:53:49] » Well, yeah. I was

[1:53:51] » I've never supported a double digit

[1:53:53] increase anyway. My gosh.

[1:53:54] » Yeah.

[1:53:55] » That's not realistic.

[1:53:58] » But I would I don't know what the legal

[1:53:59] process would be for the verbiage.

[1:54:02] That's something to look into to

[1:54:06] repeal that warrant article from 2014.

[1:54:12] » 2014.

[1:54:15] » Oh, I have it written. I I wrote that

[1:54:18] down on my very first year here. I was

[1:54:20] like, what is this?

[1:54:22] » What's that?

[1:54:23] » Cuz I've been an employer and I know

[1:54:26] that there's times where you have to

[1:54:27] react. You want to keep your employees,

[1:54:29] you better react.

[1:54:31] » Mhm.

[1:54:32] But this thing makes so that you

[1:54:38] essentially can't react to sudden

[1:54:41] changes. There's no raises. And it's

[1:54:45] also interesting how there's no like

[1:54:47] » Article 12 or 14, wasn't it?

[1:54:49] » Incentive bonuses are very discouraged

[1:54:52] in municipal.

[1:54:55] I I think they worked really well for

[1:54:58] me, but Mr. Do

[1:55:02] » You're misinterpreting what that warn

[1:55:03] article said in the intent what it did.

[1:55:07] The warrant article did not say that the

[1:55:09] selectment can't give raises. What it

[1:55:12] says is that the budget has to include

[1:55:16] those raises and approved by the voters.

[1:55:19] We had a habit at the time of different

[1:55:22] department heads and people coming in in

[1:55:25] November negotiating a behind the scenes

[1:55:30] private session raise

[1:55:33] and then somehow gets tacked to the

[1:55:34] default budget. Well, it's not part of

[1:55:37] the default budget. So, all that warrant

[1:55:39] article was doing is saying if you want

[1:55:41] to give Jack a $10,000 raise, it should

[1:55:46] be reflected in the budget before it's

[1:55:49] approved. We don't get to give Just

[1:55:52] picking on you, Jack.

[1:55:54] » Give Jack a $10,000 raise here the first

[1:55:57] or last day of September and then it

[1:56:00] gets rolled into the default budget and

[1:56:02] split in and nobody notices it. We had

[1:56:05] to happen a number of times specifically

[1:56:08] with the police department.

[1:56:11] Chief walks in, I need $10,000 raise in

[1:56:14] November. Lieutenant gets a $5,000 raise

[1:56:17] and it gets rolled into default. That's

[1:56:19] what created that warn article, not to

[1:56:23] stop the selectment from giving raises.

[1:56:26] But since you don't control the budget,

[1:56:28] it's controlled by the voters. You

[1:56:30] simply want voter approval that you're

[1:56:32] going to give Jack $10,000 raise.

[1:56:34] It's all there is to it.

[1:56:38] » So it would be submitted when then,

[1:56:40] » Huh?

[1:56:41] » So what was the

[1:56:42] » The verbiage on it?

[1:56:43] » The verbiage to So you're saying to

[1:56:46] » Let's see

[1:56:47] » What we just said is that the board of

[1:56:49] selectment cannot give create a new

[1:56:52] position, give a raise or give bonuses,

[1:56:56] things of that nature

[1:56:57] » Without it being in the budget and

[1:56:59] getting voter approval.

[1:57:02] So would you list

[1:57:03] » I believe

[1:57:04] » So would you list

[1:57:06] the

[1:57:08] the proposed raises

[1:57:12] » Proposed a raise but if it's not

[1:57:14] approved by the voters then it's not a

[1:57:17] raise.

[1:57:18] » What we were doing prior to that

[1:57:20] » Is giving a raise and then sticking it

[1:57:23] into the default budget which means

[1:57:26] whether the voters voted up or down they

[1:57:28] still get the raise voted in. That's

[1:57:30] what the warrant article was designed to

[1:57:32] stop.

[1:57:34] » It was also designed to stop

[1:57:39] uh salary line from

[1:57:42] some department heads would take a

[1:57:44] salary line. I got $20,000 left over

[1:57:47] which I don't understand how we should

[1:57:48] have if we have a zero specific number

[1:57:52] and then giving themselves a bonus with

[1:57:55] leftover salary. we should have if we

[1:57:57] should have a bonus line. I say this is

[1:57:59] what we're giving it to. Be transparent

[1:58:01] with the voters. Don't

[1:58:03] » Don't pad the thing and then I'll grab

[1:58:05] it at the end of the year.

[1:58:07] » And we have a lot of that when we have

[1:58:10] open positions like right now you have

[1:58:12] how many open positions. So the salary

[1:58:14] line exceeds what the actual should be.

[1:58:18] » Give those people a right to take that

[1:58:20] salary line

[1:58:21] » And pass it out or take it from

[1:58:23] themselves. Right.

[1:58:24] » All we're saying is, you know, if you're

[1:58:26] going to create a position,

[1:58:28] » He and I probably agree on that.

[1:58:30] » Yeah.

[1:58:30] » But the other side of the legal argument

[1:58:34] » Is what the voters approve is the bottom

[1:58:37] line number.

[1:58:39] » And what the voters do is they elect

[1:58:41] select boards who are the executive

[1:58:42] administrators of that, how to spend the

[1:58:44] money of that bottom line,

[1:58:46] » Right?

[1:58:47] » Which is why you have the line of

[1:58:48] authority to move stuff around because

[1:58:50] things change. It's just an budget is

[1:58:52] just an estimate.

[1:58:53] » Yeah. You clearly can't exceed the

[1:58:55] bottom line, but that's all they're

[1:58:57] voting on really, that three or four

[1:59:00] million. Nobody gets to vote. Not even

[1:59:02] the budget committee gets to vote on,

[1:59:04] oh, I want I don't want $35 postage,

[1:59:07] $10,000 here. No, no, no. That's not

[1:59:10] That's the job of the select to

[1:59:11] rebalance that through the year as they

[1:59:13] need to based on conditions. They're

[1:59:16] just locked into that bottom line

[1:59:18] number, big number.

[1:59:20] » And and that's sometimes FAC's don't

[1:59:23] quite appreciate. They're not the

[1:59:24] executive. They're merely making a

[1:59:26] recommendation.

[1:59:27] » Yeah.

[1:59:27] » And you guys have the ability to do line

[1:59:30] item transfers when you need to.

[1:59:32] » That and if they don't like that, then

[1:59:34] you don't get elected.

[1:59:35] » Yeah.

[1:59:37] » He'll probably disagree with me on that

[1:59:39] one.

[1:59:41] » I agree that the the worst

[1:59:44] » He said he agrees.

[1:59:46] » Have the right to move money all over

[1:59:48] the place. That that's what

[1:59:50] » Well, here's here's the other thing.

[1:59:51] there certain certain things that can't

[1:59:53] » Here's here's the other thing you and

[1:59:54] I'll probably agree on is there's what I

[1:59:57] call kind of above the line money and

[1:59:59] below the line money staff payroll that

[2:00:01] sort of thing in my experience I've

[2:00:04] never allowed the above the line money

[2:00:06] like leftover payroll money to be used

[2:00:08] for like envelopes and new vehicles and

[2:00:11] other things there's a big wall there

[2:00:13] right only you got these discretionary

[2:00:16] expenses some non-discretionary but then

[2:00:18] you have payroll benefits that sort of

[2:00:19] thing if you have five vacancies

[2:00:22] That doesn't mean you can have that

[2:00:23] money drop down to the lower end of the

[2:00:25] account and then buy new stuff,

[2:00:28] » Right? That's only payroll and benefits

[2:00:30] and then down below are the expendables

[2:00:33] and and and y'all have line item

[2:00:36] authority within those categories,

[2:00:38] » But not so much breaking up through the

[2:00:41] the top of the pile. To me,

[2:00:43] » Not everybody committes like that,

[2:00:45] » But I think that insulates

[2:00:49] um it preserves the creation of surplus,

[2:00:52] which is really important, particularly

[2:00:54] for funding capital projects.

[2:00:56] » Yeah.

[2:00:56] » Money you've already collected, you

[2:00:58] didn't need it by say vacancies or

[2:01:01] insurance, whatever.

[2:01:03] » And rather than collecting the money all

[2:01:05] over again, you use the money you just

[2:01:06] collected to fund the next year's

[2:01:09] project or capital. It's a really clean

[2:01:12] way to do it.

[2:01:13] » But if you're burning through leftover

[2:01:16] money because you think you can, then

[2:01:19] » You're not running efficient.

[2:01:21] » Well, you're you're acting a little

[2:01:23] richer than maybe you should.

[2:01:25] » Yeah.

[2:01:25] » But you're the the problem is not really

[2:01:27] what you do. The selectman could do what

[2:01:29] they want with the leftover money. The

[2:01:31] problem is that in the past we got into

[2:01:33] the habit of rolling whatever we used it

[2:01:36] for into a default

[2:01:38] » Which is why over the last six years or

[2:01:41] so the default is matching

[2:01:44] the operating budget proposed almost

[2:01:47] each year they're saying well I can go

[2:01:49] for $4 million or 3.95

[2:01:52] default when the default should be

[2:01:54] significantly lower because we're

[2:01:56] rolling these things in. If you want to

[2:01:59] spend the money that make it part of the

[2:02:01] default budget for next year.

[2:02:04] » I've actually never seen a default

[2:02:05] budget that's actually lower because

[2:02:08] there are exceptions in the default

[2:02:09] budget for contractual obligations and

[2:02:11] things that are non-discretionary, but

[2:02:14] it's usually a little bit high.

[2:02:15] » There's a lot of things in our default

[2:02:17] vure questionable. For example, all of

[2:02:19] the equipment purchases that's not a

[2:02:21] routine yeartoear year,

[2:02:23] » But if it's in there, that's not a one

[2:02:25] time expenditure. But again, the only

[2:02:27] thing they're passing is the bottom line

[2:02:29] number.

[2:02:30] » So all that should be wiped out.

[2:02:33] » If it's in that budget, that's the

[2:02:35] number that carries down because the

[2:02:37] default budget is a number at the bottom

[2:02:39] that there

[2:02:40] » The number what for the next year's

[2:02:42] default. If you're going to purchase a

[2:02:44] voting machine for $14,000,

[2:02:47] that's a one time purchase. We don't

[2:02:49] budget that every year.

[2:02:50] » No. All right. I found it.

[2:02:53] It was 2014 article 21. Are you in favor

[2:02:58] of requiring voter approval for any

[2:03:01] adjustment to town employee wages,

[2:03:04] including generation of new positions,

[2:03:06] all wage increases, and employee

[2:03:09] bonuses,

[2:03:13] » Which basically turns the voters into

[2:03:15] the select board.

[2:03:16] » That's how I readalation.

[2:03:20] » That's how I read that.

[2:03:23] Now he's arguing, yeah, the voters

[2:03:26] approve it because it's a part of the

[2:03:30] budget that's proposed.

[2:03:32] That's how he's arguing.

[2:03:33] » If it's in the proposed budget, then the

[2:03:35] voters approve it. Whatever raises or

[2:03:38] anything in that list that you want to

[2:03:40] do is fine. What I'm saying is don't put

[2:03:43] it into default where you're not giving

[2:03:45] the voters a choice.

[2:03:46] » Right? But that's not how this article

[2:03:48] reads

[2:03:50] in my opinion. That's why I'd like it

[2:03:52] repealed

[2:03:53] because when I read it when I first

[2:03:55] became selectman and I believe somebody

[2:03:57] pointed it out to me

[2:04:00] um I read

[2:04:03] the voter is being asked are you in

[2:04:05] favor of requiring voter approval for

[2:04:09] any adjustment to town employee wages to

[2:04:12] include generation of new positions all

[2:04:15] wage increases and employee bonuses.

[2:04:18] So, what I read there is

[2:04:21] if I want to give someone a raise, I

[2:04:24] have to call a public hearing and ask

[2:04:26] the voters's approval.

[2:04:29] Can we give this person a raise? That's

[2:04:32] what my first thing. Now, I've since

[2:04:34] calmed down a little bit from that kind

[2:04:36] of interpretation, but I still think it

[2:04:38] should just be taken off books.

[2:04:43] It's 10 years old.

[2:04:49] Well, I can certainly see why uh your

[2:04:52] attorney said that's not

[2:04:55] » Non enforceable.

[2:04:56] » Yeah, because it violates RSAs.

[2:04:59] » Yeah,

[2:05:01] » But

[2:05:02] you're always throwing RSAs at us, Alan.

[2:05:05] » I said, you're always throwing RSAs at

[2:05:07] us, and now

[2:05:10] » I don't throw simply point out what you

[2:05:13] may have overlooked.

[2:05:14] » Yeah.

[2:05:15] » Yep.

[2:05:17] you know,

[2:05:18] » Just saying that's all

[2:05:20] » That's it for my discussion on the

[2:05:22] warrant.

[2:05:23] » Okay.

[2:05:24] » Two hours is not a very very short

[2:05:26] meeting.

[2:05:26] » No, I was going to say I I was just

[2:05:29] about ready to

[2:05:30] » Bring you back and see.

[2:05:32] » Yeah, I'd like to wind up

[2:05:33] » Trying to save you money here.

[2:05:35] » Well, we can use that as well.

[2:05:38] » John, I've got a question for you. Mhm.

[2:05:40] The um did they start putting the heater

[2:05:43] in or the the thing?

[2:05:47] » I don't know if they've started, but I

[2:05:48] seen that it's

[2:05:50] paid for or approved.

[2:05:53] » Okay.

[2:05:55] » Because we're starting to get into

[2:05:56] colder weather.

[2:05:57] » Yeah. Yeah. Peter had it scheduled. So,

[2:06:01] » Yeah.

[2:06:02] » I was just curious.

[2:06:03] » Yeah. I'll do a followup. I think the

[2:06:06] synopsis of this is we would like all

[2:06:09] budget work done before Christmas.

[2:06:14] Nothing.

[2:06:14] » I I would hope so.

[2:06:16] » Yeah.

[2:06:16] » Well, it wasn't the case last year.

[2:06:18] » Okay.

[2:06:21] » Early December

[2:06:23] » Or earlier

[2:06:24] » Gives us Yeah. month and a half. I think

[2:06:28] we should be able to have

[2:06:29] » Yeah.

[2:06:30] » A pretty good idea. early early December

[2:06:33] is when the next uh tax

[2:06:36] um

[2:06:37] » Tax bill

[2:06:40] when the next tax bill comes out.

[2:06:43] » Let's say November.

[2:06:47] » Target November.

[2:06:48] » I would say

[2:06:49] » A month and a half.

[2:06:52] » I hope it's realistic.

[2:06:54] » Well,

[2:06:56] I I'll I'll see what we hear from

[2:06:59] Stephanie in terms of the schedule.

[2:07:01] if they can actually

[2:07:04] um get a quorum together and actually

[2:07:06] meet. I I know they struggled with that

[2:07:08] a little bit a few months ago. I don't

[2:07:09] know what

[2:07:10] » If they don't then I think we should

[2:07:13] send an email to department heads.

[2:07:15] » Just you'll have to do it or

[2:07:17] » Just send your proposed budget

[2:07:19] » Or come and present it

[2:07:21] » What you'd like to see.

[2:07:22] » Yeah. And that comes in with the you

[2:07:25] know um

[2:07:27] with the CPI sheet and everything. So,

[2:07:31] um, and then there's another group of

[2:07:33] people that'll go and interview the, uh,

[2:07:37] um, you, uh, whoever's leading whatever

[2:07:41] board,

[2:07:43] you know, whatever job and try to get

[2:07:45] the budget out of them.

[2:07:47] » Yeah. But what Joe just said is we may

[2:07:49] we don't know where that process is at,

[2:07:52] if it's begun

[2:07:54] or if it's going to, if it's not going.

[2:07:56] Well, it's going to D is just she's on

[2:07:59] the road right now.

[2:08:00] » No, no, not the CIP. I'm talking

[2:08:01] » I'm talking about the other department

[2:08:03] heads.

[2:08:03] » Other department heads

[2:08:05] » If

[2:08:06] » Right. So,

[2:08:07] » If it I'm just saying what's as a board

[2:08:10] let's request it.

[2:08:12] » There is to keep that schedule because

[2:08:18] » And then the last little thing is this.

[2:08:24] » This gets assembled by somebody. Oh

[2:08:26] yeah,

[2:08:26] » Every year.

[2:08:29] » I don't know if it's been delegated. No,

[2:08:32] it has to

[2:08:34] » We need to send something to the

[2:08:35] printing company,

[2:08:36] » Right?

[2:08:37] » I I'm not sure how the delegation has

[2:08:41] the delegating has

[2:08:45] » Done in the past.

[2:08:45] » In the past,

[2:08:47] » Pretty much TA did it.

[2:08:49] » There you go.

[2:08:50] » Yeah. No, I figure that

[2:08:51] » Oh, it's

[2:08:52] » I have frequently run into communities

[2:08:54] that I know nothing about and put

[2:08:55] together their

[2:08:57] » I talked a little bit with Evelyn about

[2:08:59] » You got to do it, you know.

[2:09:00] » Yeah, I mentioned it.

[2:09:01] » Basically, I go through prior ones. I

[2:09:04] reach out to the people that submitted

[2:09:05] the contents and I say,

[2:09:07] » I need your annual report. You got to

[2:09:09] tell me what you've been doing for last

[2:09:10] year. And then I connect with the

[2:09:12] printer and say, "How do you want it?"

[2:09:13] We we give it to the format they want

[2:09:16] and yeah, review approved blah blah

[2:09:18] blah. So, so I asked Evelyn how much

[2:09:21] involvement she had when I was

[2:09:22] scheduling this meeting and she said she

[2:09:24] did a little bit, not very much, but she

[2:09:28] was

[2:09:30] slightly involved last year. She is.

[2:09:35] » She might be able to

[2:09:36] » Well, the your your one of the decisions

[2:09:40] you guys need to make is

[2:09:42] um if you want to dedicate the annual

[2:09:47] report to anybody because usually that

[2:09:49] seems to be a board decision,

[2:09:51] » Right?

[2:09:53] » Dedicate what?

[2:09:54] » Dedicate the annual report. Sometimes

[2:09:56] you like to recognize

[2:09:57] » Oh, recognize

[2:09:59] » And

[2:10:01] you You can think about that.

[2:10:03] » Yeah,

[2:10:04] » Obviously. Um,

[2:10:08] we've got a few months before that.

[2:10:10] » Who does Mark work for?

[2:10:12] » Mark who?

[2:10:14] » Um,

[2:10:17] is it?

[2:10:17] » It's either GGB.

[2:10:18] » Maintenance guy.

[2:10:19] » Yeah,

[2:10:20] » It's DPW, I guess.

[2:10:21] » Yeah, GG.

[2:10:22] » DPW.

[2:10:23] » GGB.

[2:10:24] » Okay. Because um there's a a ledge uh on

[2:10:29] the stairwell going down.

[2:10:31] And um

[2:10:35] Mary u her her foot uh because it's a

[2:10:40] it's alleged there's just a gap in there

[2:10:42] and her um her foot went in there and

[2:10:47] she ended up tumbling down

[2:10:50] eight steps

[2:10:52] » Going to the basement here.

[2:10:54] » There's a gap.

[2:10:55] » Yeah.

[2:10:56] » So we need to have somebody look at that

[2:10:58] and fix it. Oh, it was this stairwell.

[2:11:01] » Yeah.

[2:11:01] » Oh, I knew she had to tumble down the

[2:11:03] stairs. I thought it was over at the PD.

[2:11:04] » She didn't say a word.

[2:11:06] » No, the PD doesn't have stairs.

[2:11:08] » She was She was back to work.

[2:11:11] » Okay, I'm glad to hear that.

[2:11:12] » Sprained her wrist and

[2:11:14] » Yeah, she sprained her wrist.

[2:11:16] » Yeah, she didn't say a word. I mean, I

[2:11:18] only briefly passed by.

[2:11:20] » I just want to make sure somebody looks

[2:11:22] at it and, you know, figures out what

[2:11:24] it's going to take to fix it.

[2:11:26] » Yeah. Good.

[2:11:30] And then uh I think that's all we got.

[2:11:34] Joe, anything.

[2:11:36] » Do we got to do the um the tree cutting

[2:11:40] hearing for?

[2:11:41] » Yes. I I

[2:11:42] » I'm afraid I

[2:11:45] scenic.

[2:11:45] » Forgot to follow up on that. So I have

[2:11:48] that back on my list. So that's some

[2:11:50] What's the street again?

[2:11:51] » Timber top.

[2:11:52] » Timbertop.

[2:11:55] is to be able to go out and flag the

[2:11:58] trees that need to come out.

[2:11:59] » So that's a scenic road.

[2:12:00] » Has it been done?

[2:12:01] » No, I don't. So that's a scenic road. So

[2:12:04] they

[2:12:05] » A portion of it. It's not the whole

[2:12:06] road. It's only a portion.

[2:12:09] » We'll schedule a public hearing to

[2:12:12] discuss the trees and the wise and

[2:12:13] wherefores and why certain trees need to

[2:12:15] be removed.

[2:12:17] Well, in that public hearing, you get to

[2:12:19] make a decision as to whether you're

[2:12:21] okay with removing the trees along this

[2:12:23] scenic road.

[2:12:28] » Um, and then the only other thing I had

[2:12:30] was

[2:12:33] um

[2:12:35] wondering if we could put I don't know

[2:12:37] if they will or won't, but somebody

[2:12:39] reach out to the roads department.

[2:12:43] » I'm sorry that what

[2:12:44] » To the road department. road committee.

[2:12:46] » Yeah,

[2:12:47] » Road committee.

[2:12:48] » I'd like to, this is just thrown out to

[2:12:51] it next week or next meeting, but

[2:12:53] » I'd like to kind of go over some

[2:12:56] possible soil stabilizations under the

[2:12:59] roads.

[2:13:01] » So, as as DPW liaison,

[2:13:03] » Yeah,

[2:13:04] » You are our liaison to the road

[2:13:07] committee.

[2:13:08] » Okay.

[2:13:09] » So, I'm not sure who's chairman. I think

[2:13:10] Marcus Radiola,

[2:13:12] » Okay,

[2:13:12] » Is the chairman of that committee.

[2:13:14] » Mhm.

[2:13:16] and you could reach out to him and say,

[2:13:17] "Hey, when can we get a meeting?"

[2:13:19] Because the other thing, it would be

[2:13:20] good for the committee to meet and just

[2:13:22] say, "Hey, we're going to shoot for the

[2:13:24] same amount next year or we're going to

[2:13:26] double it or whatever."

[2:13:27] » Right.

[2:13:28] » Joey, you mean like a a deep

[2:13:29] reconstruction?

[2:13:30] » I'm just saying. Yeah. I'm I'm been, you

[2:13:33] know, as I start getting into figuring

[2:13:36] out roads and different stuff, there's

[2:13:39] there's other cities or other towns that

[2:13:42] especially if you have

[2:13:45] um

[2:13:46] wetter conditions and clay type soils

[2:13:51] there. They can they can when they take

[2:13:54] a road top off,

[2:13:56] » They can grind that asphalt.

[2:13:58] » Oh, yeah.

[2:13:59] » And the clay

[2:14:00] » Yeah. Yeah.

[2:14:01] » And mix in uh it's it's called soil

[2:14:04] stabilization. Sure. But they can mix in

[2:14:06] a certain percentage of cement, Portland

[2:14:09] cement. There's an ingredient, you know,

[2:14:11] they'll say, "Hey, you know, this road

[2:14:14] needs so many pounds per whatever square

[2:14:16] feet or whatever,

[2:14:17] » But the machine will actually mix it in.

[2:14:19] » Oh, no.

[2:14:20] » And it'll make that base really really

[2:14:23] » Oh, I heard no.

[2:14:24] » And I was

[2:14:27] just looking at our roads and looking at

[2:14:29] like some of the

[2:14:31] some of the roads that you would think

[2:14:34] were never paved or not paved in the

[2:14:36] last how many years. They look like they

[2:14:39] haven't

[2:14:41] like you wouldn't believe they're only

[2:14:42] within the last 10 years where it's

[2:14:44] paved.

[2:14:46] » And I'm not saying this is a solution,

[2:14:47] but I'm just saying that I'd like to

[2:14:50] » See if there's

[2:14:53] other ways to

[2:14:54] » Do Do you know if we have a a road

[2:14:56] condition survey?

[2:14:58] » We do.

[2:14:58] » Yeah, we do. We have all that

[2:15:00] » We get one from uh

[2:15:02] » From the

[2:15:04] » And and

[2:15:05] » Here's here's another thing

[2:15:07] » We have but does that identify the need

[2:15:10] for a road bit reconstruction?

[2:15:12] » Yes.

[2:15:13] » I can tell you what I came across in the

[2:15:15] selectman's office and I could show you

[2:15:17] after the meeting is core samples

[2:15:22] » Down into the subgrade

[2:15:24] of a lot of roads in town.

[2:15:27] » I'm sure a lot of these roads are just

[2:15:29] old trees laid out for who knows what

[2:15:31] » For sure 120 years ago and

[2:15:34] » The road beds are just really old.

[2:15:36] » I was on the road committee for a year

[2:15:38] and a half or something.

[2:15:40] » Um that as a procedure when we're

[2:15:44] reconstructing a road is to mix in

[2:15:47] » With the subgrade,

[2:15:48] » Right?

[2:15:48] » I don't know how far down they went.

[2:15:51] » And I don't think I ever heard of adding

[2:15:54] Portland cement. So it might be

[2:15:56] something maybe even for like more

[2:15:59] traveled.

[2:16:00] » Even even a manu even a manufactured

[2:16:03] gravel sometimes is better. Sloppy it's

[2:16:06] chip

[2:16:06] » Clay whatever

[2:16:08] » They can use chip.

[2:16:10] » Yeah. It's a very thin flat type thing

[2:16:13] and it just um settles it in and then

[2:16:17] that they put the um either some kind of

[2:16:20] compound or or

[2:16:23] more another layer of

[2:16:26] of

[2:16:28] black top.

[2:16:30] » Yeah, I'm talking below all that is what

[2:16:33] I'm saying is that

[2:16:34] » You're talking the subgroup.

[2:16:36] » Yeah, the road are only about 3 to four

[2:16:40] inches thick,

[2:16:41] » Right?

[2:16:41] » Yeah. I just know there's a lot of tech

[2:16:45] out there.

[2:16:46] » Yeah. What happens though is that um you

[2:16:50] you get the the swelling o over the

[2:16:53] winter time.

[2:16:54] » Mhm.

[2:16:55] » And because the stone work underneath

[2:16:57] there, the base starts, you know,

[2:16:59] rising,

[2:16:59] » Right?

[2:17:00] » And that starts tearing up the uh the

[2:17:02] top layers of the black top.

[2:17:05] » Yeah.

[2:17:08] So, the neat thing about that I do know

[2:17:10] about soil stabilization is there's

[2:17:12] different there's different flex that

[2:17:15] you can like I said it's like baking a

[2:17:18] cake. You can

[2:17:19] » You can engineer

[2:17:20] » You can engineer it to match kind of the

[2:17:22] soil conditions, what soil it is, the

[2:17:25] moisture conditions that it receives,

[2:17:29] » Whether you want it to be permeable or

[2:17:31] be able to go through or not. And

[2:17:36] you

[2:17:38] I just know that our subbases is your

[2:17:40] asphalt is only as good as your subbase,

[2:17:42] » Right?

[2:17:43] » And so the better you make that

[2:17:45] » There's a Yeah, there's a base layer

[2:17:47] typically of 2 in then another three

[2:17:50] inches total.

[2:17:51] » Yeah.

[2:17:51] » For a top layer and whatever to

[2:17:53] stabilize it.

[2:17:55] » Yeah. So I I I will look into that then.

[2:17:59] So, but that is good because it ties

[2:18:02] back to the budget and the CIP in terms

[2:18:04] of what the road budget is. Your cost

[2:18:06] per mile is going to be different.

[2:18:08] » Yeah.

[2:18:10] » It'd be neat to be able to for next year

[2:18:14] » If all this went through say, hey, let's

[2:18:16] do a quarter mile or not even let's do

[2:18:21] » And then just see what it does, you

[2:18:22] know, if not everybody's on board with

[2:18:24] it or no whatever.

[2:18:26] » Well, it's a really good committee. that

[2:18:28] road committee. We have some guys who do

[2:18:31] site work and

[2:18:32] » And have um civil work,

[2:18:35] » Right?

[2:18:35] » So that I think

[2:18:37] » Might be

[2:18:37] » I look forward to hearing what they

[2:18:39] have.

[2:18:40] » Yeah. The other thing to look at too is

[2:18:43] um like for the post office is since

[2:18:47] they're putting black top in, they have

[2:18:49] thing that they can go ahead and just

[2:18:51] put in and have an apron in front of the

[2:18:54] the um uh post office box. And that

[2:18:58] allows um them to the the uh trucks to

[2:19:02] go off the road and not clog up traffic.

[2:19:08] And it's not that The only thing they do

[2:19:11] is charge whatever the material cost

[2:19:14] was.

[2:19:18] » You mean the pull off individual

[2:19:20] meal?

[2:19:21] » I think in my mind it it's a substantial

[2:19:25] cost because you're not only paying for

[2:19:27] it to be done once, you're paying for it

[2:19:29] forever now. Because as soon as you

[2:19:32] don't do that, Mr. Doyle would be like,

[2:19:34] "Hey, where's my apron?"

[2:19:37] Sorry.

[2:19:39] Why are you picking on him? I don't

[2:19:41] know.

[2:19:41] » He didn't appreciate it, but that's how

[2:19:44] it would go.

[2:19:45] » Hey, where's my

[2:19:47] » Yeah, let's let's

[2:19:49] » I think it's worth my extra $10,000.

[2:19:56] » All right. Any other business?

[2:20:00] » Go home.

[2:20:03] » Make a motion to adjourn.

[2:20:05] » I second that.

[2:20:06] » All in favor?

Untitled meeting

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