[0:13] Should we

[0:14] call our session to order?

[0:18] at

[0:19] 4:01.

[0:22] Um

[0:24] so for everyone here, there's we have

[0:27] two people absent, so we don't have our

[0:30] normal chair. And I just want to I mean

[0:32] as we look at our agenda, I wondered, do

[0:34] we want to like assign roles and make

[0:36] one of us a chair for the day and one

[0:38] person a note taker or how do we want to

[0:40] analyze to be chair?

[0:42] Thanks.

[0:43] I can second Never mind. All right. I

[0:45] will second I will do it.

[0:48] Um

[0:50] and then how do we want to do notes?

[0:52] I'll

[0:53] do notes.

[0:57] All right. So then um

[1:00] do we have a motion to approve our

[1:01] agenda?

[1:03] I think motion to approve it. I'll

[1:04] second that.

[1:06] So then we're good. And

[1:07] all in favor?

[1:09] Yeah. I.

[1:11] Any opposed?

[1:12] Any absence?

[1:14] So the first thing on our agenda is

[1:16] Well, and welcome everyone who's joining

[1:18] us online. See

[1:19] Susan Clark and

[1:21] Bill Price. I hope I get your name

[1:23] right. You like I'm

[1:24] not pronouncing you right, but I'll do

[1:26] my best.

[1:28] And a few people also.

[1:30] So

[1:32] lessons learned.

[1:34] Date and content.

[1:36] Um

[1:37] do we want to just go around the room

[1:39] and

[1:41] share thoughts on

[1:43] I know, I think this is to I could take,

[1:45] right? Oh, we're setting a session for

[1:47] that. Oh, much better.

[1:51] So Well, then my question on that is

[1:55] Susan, I know you're planning you want

[1:57] to do a

[1:59] something along these lines, too. And

[2:01] I'm wondering, are we should we try to

[2:03] do something together or should it be

[2:04] separate or what what's the most

[2:06] effective way to sort of get everyone's

[2:08] ideas out?

[2:10] Yeah, great question. And um

[2:13] yeah, I was wondering the same thing. I feel like um

[2:18] there's [snorts]

[2:19] a there's a subset, which is what the

[2:22] budget committee does, which is create

[2:23] the budget

[2:25] or work on the budget or review the

[2:27] budget. Um and there there's a um I feel

[2:31] like the

[2:32] sort of the defining what the question

[2:34] is, what is it that we want to learn

[2:35] from is is sort of the the the what to

[2:38] do at this moment. And so um if if if

[2:42] one question is how did um creating the

[2:46] budget or how did the budget process go

[2:49] this

[2:50] annual cycle? What lessons did we learn

[2:53] from the hiccups that we that we had or

[2:56] whatever however you want to define

[2:59] what we just went through. Um lessons

[3:02] learned from the from the budget cycle.

[3:04] Um and then um

[3:06] uh

[3:07] and I think that's a subset of a bigger

[3:10] question of sort of like how Middlesex

[3:12] makes um its

[3:15] the the the the sort of town meeting and

[3:17] democracy throughout the year question,

[3:19] which has to do with the budget, but it

[3:21] also has to do with other stuff that we

[3:22] do. Um

[3:25] So, I feel like your group's question is

[3:29] the first fundamental lessons learned

[3:33] and I would like to attend and listen

[3:35] and maybe listen for trends that that

[3:38] would help me maybe frame with the

[3:40] solutions committee um a bigger question

[3:43] about what happens throughout the year.

[3:45] Well, that

[3:46] makes sense to me that we have sort of a

[3:49] slightly narrower focus.

[3:51] Um and I'm wondering like

[3:54] part of me thinks that one thing we need

[3:56] to do is really clarify

[3:58] the budget committee's role compared to

[4:00] the select board's role because I think

[4:02] we, you know, we're largely an advisory

[4:04] committee. There's very little that we

[4:07] very little authority we have at all.

[4:09] And so

[4:10] and it's not even so much an authority

[4:12] question I think as a

[4:14] you know, if we kind of talk through

[4:15] this

[4:16] we collect departmental budgets from the

[4:18] departmental heads, you know,

[4:20] we can talk about whether or not we do

[4:21] that effectively at 400% or not.

[4:24] And then we review it, look at trends,

[4:27] history,

[4:29] look at the overall increase, try to get

[4:31] something that we think would be

[4:32] valuable to the select board. But that's

[4:33] really our scope is collating, reviewing

[4:36] it, and recommend it.

[4:38] >> Well, and I think we should be really

[4:39] clear like which parts of that process

[4:42] does the budget committee

[4:44] facilitate and take ownership over and

[4:46] which parts just start with the select

[4:48] board because I mean I've caught myself

[4:50] a few times like part of this might be

[4:51] just cuz it's shifted over the years

[4:53] that you know,

[4:55] sometimes in the past

[4:57] departments have presented their budgets

[4:59] to the select board versus the budget

[5:02] committee. And so to me that's part of

[5:04] the conversation is just like let's make

[5:05] sure we're all clear where are those

[5:07] roles so that if there's room for

[5:09] improvement, we we know who's going to

[5:10] work on improving, you know, or where or

[5:12] what we want to shift. Yeah, I mean like

[5:14] my general sense was that I had I had

[5:16] assumed the lessons learned was more

[5:17] that that sort of second topic or the

[5:19] overall bell sex. I think we can certainly have a session where we

[5:24] just talk about

[5:25] hey, what are all the block, you know,

[5:27] steps we need to take during budget

[5:29] creation. I think that'll be valuable

[5:30] for us just during a normal right right.

[5:32] And that might be the the session that

[5:33] we have.

[5:34] Um,

[5:35] but I I agree with you cuz

[5:37] I don't think the budget committee

[5:38] should own figuring out the

[5:41] who does the, you know, does the select

[5:43] board do it? Do we do it? Like I really

[5:44] think that there's one thing that I

[5:46] think we

[5:47] um, have to do which is recommend a

[5:49] budget or or expected to do. We

[5:51] recommend the budget to the select

[5:52] board. But beyond that, the select board

[5:55] I think should really provide guidance.

[5:57] Yeah, I mean there's there's definitely

[5:59] like the capital planning piece which

[6:00] we've always taken

[6:02] which since it's inception is like a

[6:04] thing in Middle sex, the budget

[6:06] committee has taken a pretty leading

[6:07] role in and then

[6:10] Yeah, I mean my impression is even the

[6:12] way

[6:14] the budget process is done is it's like

[6:16] we don't necessarily recommend the

[6:18] budget so much as make recommendations

[6:20] about the budget is is how I feel like

[6:23] we've done it and maybe that's wrong.

[6:24] All I meant [laughter] was recommend

[6:25] something to the select board like we

[6:27] present Totally. We make recommendations

[6:28] on the budget that's being developed by

[6:30] the select board with our input as the

[6:32] process goes. Yeah. So anyways,

[6:34] I guess my ultimate question is

[6:37] should we be trying to have this lessons

[6:39] learned session as just a

[6:42] budget committee meeting or should we be

[6:45] including some input from the select

[6:47] board cuz ultimately they're like

[6:49] they're the ones who if if if they don't

[6:50] like what we're suggesting,

[6:52] they can tell us we want the budget

[6:53] committee to do something else, I think.

[6:56] Question. Isn't it more like a process

[7:00] that needs to be designed or maintained

[7:03] or cur

[7:04] Yeah, I think it needs to be clarified

[7:06] and and sort of written down and more

[7:08] with more detail than we've ever had

[7:09] that I know of.

[7:11] And that's where I I was thinking that

[7:12] maybe we need some select board input

[7:14] although maybe we come up with our

[7:15] proposal. I I definitely think So I

[7:18] think I I think Bill

[7:20] I think

[7:21] probably everyone would agree that it

[7:23] would be good to have a documented

[7:24] process. Or at least that's my opinion

[7:26] and I don't please disagree but I agree.

[7:29] Ultimately I think what Elias and and

[7:31] are are talking about is is really the

[7:33] select board should probably define the

[7:35] process that they expect the budget

[7:37] committee to follow. We can certainly

[7:39] propose something

[7:41] but I just want to be careful I think to

[7:42] this this idea of the year like we don't

[7:44] want to say we do something and then

[7:47] have that become a point of contention.

[7:49] You know, should it be us, should it be

[7:49] someone else? So So maybe what we do is

[7:52] we have like a lessons learned session or whatever we

[7:55] want to call it where we're writing down

[7:57] the process that we understand it is

[8:00] [clears throat] and even maybe we're

[8:01] making recommendations of how we want it

[8:03] to be if it hasn't been that way and

[8:05] we're then presenting that to the select

[8:07] board.

[8:08] And then they decide. And I think that's

[8:10] a great time to invite people who think

[8:13] that they you know have

[8:15] criticisms constructive or otherwise

[8:16] about the process so that we can make

[8:17] sure we incorporate that.

[8:19] >> Exactly. Yeah. Okay, cool. So um

[8:22] date. I think we covered some of the

[8:24] content of that.

[8:26] I think we sort of laid out what we want

[8:28] to discuss at the meeting. When do we

[8:30] want to do this?

[8:31] I don't know if you saw

[8:33] this

[8:35] uh that Mark had sent in kind of his

[8:37] topics. Oh, I haven't I was just

[8:39] wondering if before the meeting started

[8:40] to know what he

[8:41] Please share.

[8:43] He just

[8:44] under like the lessons learned I think

[8:46] he wanted to add kind of his opinions

[8:50] and for attendees he had put SB I'm

[8:52] assuming for select board, budget

[8:54] committee and public

[8:56] and he had also said maybe June

[8:59] um

[9:00] for like when to hold it before before

[9:02] people forget their feedback. I do think

[9:04] it would be helpful for me to understand

[9:08] the process better um

[9:11] all around and I do think that the

[9:13] select board has to be

[9:16] somewhat involved, right? Because I feel

[9:18] like they are determining it and I think

[9:21] that since I've been on the budget

[9:23] committee, you know, that's the

[9:25] direction we get, right? Like they're

[9:27] like I want to you know do this or do

[9:29] that and a lot of times it's

[9:30] it it's it's been a little confusing to

[9:33] me

[9:34] because at some point the treasurer is

[9:36] involved, right? Like the treasurer is doing adding, removing, but then at

[9:41] some point Dorinda was involved in

[9:44] adding and removing and she wasn't on

[9:46] the budget committee at that point. So I

[9:48] think there's people involved too. So to

[9:50] me it's a little confusing the process.

[9:53] Um so I think it would be good to kind

[9:56] of know expectations and all of that.

[9:59] Yeah. A written document of the process

[10:02] would be a great outcome for this.

[10:05] And just

[10:06] so from from my perspective, I think

[10:08] Dorinda was treasurer at one point. She

[10:11] I think she's assisted and so at least

[10:13] from my perspective when she's been

[10:14] doing that is it's often been her

[10:16] stepping into assist as treasurer. But

[10:18] like it would make so much sense if we

[10:20] clarified that like the treasurer does

[10:22] these parts of this process.

[10:23] >> So

[10:24] the So the budget committee is basically

[10:26] an advisory committee. So basically what

[10:29] happens is we keep we maintain the Excel

[10:32] spreadsheet and we we monitor it, we the

[10:35] new budget stuff comes in, the new

[10:36] figures are coming in and we're

[10:38] constantly adding. This year usually the

[10:41] treasurer is the respon you know, does

[10:42] the initial inputting of information.

[10:45] And what happens is this year I was

[10:47] doing the town report. So I had to let

[10:50] Dorinda assist me in doing the budget

[10:52] because I did was it town report, town

[10:54] meeting, there just wasn't any wiggle

[10:56] room to do the budget. Um so she offered

[10:59] to come in and help with that. So

[11:00] usually and then what happens is, you

[11:02] know, we we every single like the part

[11:05] of like rec

[11:06] uh highway, everybody presents their own

[11:08] budgets and works on their own budgets.

[11:10] And then you guys come in and look at

[11:11] things and say,

[11:13] you know, hey, what do you think about

[11:14] shaving this or you know, and you're also adding your capital planning

[11:18] information into the budget uh and what

[11:21] your thoughts are. And then we come

[11:24] together as a a whole in the in in one

[11:27] of the selectboard meetings with

[11:29] everybody giving their input and

[11:31] suggestions. And then the select board

[11:33] says, yes or no, or shave this, or add

[11:35] this, or do whatever when you guys are

[11:38] present with the treasurer and

[11:41] the budget committee and the select

[11:43] board all together and the department

[11:44] heads.

[11:46] Uh like Eric does the highway, he does

[11:48] the fire department, you know, um

[11:51] here it's like we know I I basically

[11:53] enter things based on contracts or based

[11:55] on um appropriations like we you know we

[11:57] have to pay the monthly your treasurers.

[12:00] We have to pay them but that's they

[12:02] calculate those fees, we don't. Um

[12:05] contracts with the ambulance service. We

[12:07] get those kind of things and then as

[12:08] they come in I put them in a folder

[12:11] um as people are working on those

[12:12] numbers and I I keep track of that and

[12:15] so then when it comes time to input it

[12:16] then we have supporting documentation

[12:18] that tells us

[12:19] um same thing with health insurance and

[12:21] any kind of benefits that we have.

[12:24] Um if anything comes in for the

[12:26] electricity, you know, like this year we

[12:27] had a 3% increase is what they

[12:29] anticipated. Um and that goes in the

[12:31] folder. Um

[12:33] we just like to keep all the backup that

[12:35] we can

[12:36] that supports that Excel spreadsheet.

[12:38] And then when we're in the meetings

[12:41] usually it's like, okay, we're going to

[12:42] take this out, we're going to add this,

[12:44] and then we're making those adjustments,

[12:45] we come back, we do the Excel

[12:46] spreadsheet again, and then send it and

[12:48] everybody makes those adjustments and

[12:50] makes the suggestions because you got

[12:51] you know everybody wants to come

[12:52] together not

[12:54] you know, to have that lower percentage

[12:55] rate for the budget.

[12:57] Does that help with what you guys

[13:01] Yeah, I mean that all aligns with my

[13:02] understanding and I guess I think what

[13:04] we're talking about is like let's get

[13:05] that written down so that anybody who

[13:07] wants to join our like Middlesex's

[13:09] budgeting process

[13:11] has some grounding in in those like I

[13:13] mean I would love to make sure that

[13:15] the process is written down and we have

[13:17] some timelines in there. So people might

[13:18] know like, oh, if I want to have like a

[13:20] big impact on shifting this budget, I

[13:22] need to show up at this time, not you

[13:25] know, if I show up at town meeting day

[13:27] it's going to be really hard to make the

[13:29] changes I want. Something like that.

[13:30] Right. And usually what happens with everybody putting together and

[13:34] pulling together their budget

[13:35] information, what happens is

[13:37] we basically go on Okay, what happened

[13:40] the year before? You know, what who who

[13:43] you know, when did highway do theirs or

[13:45] when did so-and-so do theirs?

[13:48] Just to kind of come together and say

[13:50] this is you know, at this select board

[13:52] meeting the highway department needs to

[13:54] have their stuff. Oh, at this select

[13:56] board meeting, you know, and you know,

[13:58] Eric would do like the fire department

[14:00] and the highway department at the exact

[14:01] same time.

[14:03] Okay. Ben, you Do you want to say

[14:05] something? I have Susan you had your

[14:06] hand up. Yeah, I have Susan. I think

[14:08] almost some of this might be the the

[14:09] actual content we want to talk about

[14:11] during the lessons learned. Yeah.

[14:14] Because you know, my two cents that sort

[14:16] of a preview is that I I agree with what

[14:18] Elias said. I think but I I

[14:20] [clears throat] have motivation I think

[14:21] for it is

[14:22] we want a process that's that's roughly

[14:25] written down and timelines just so that

[14:27] there's everyone feels that there's

[14:29] transparency. And my observation

[14:31] >> I I totally agree 100% because I know you Cheryl. Yeah.

[14:36] I mean I think everything in this

[14:38] place needs a procedure manual, a

[14:40] policy. They need to have everything to

[14:42] where there's no questions and you can

[14:44] go to that piece of paper and answer get

[14:46] your answers. Yeah, I I was just

[14:48] speaking to I think some of you know,

[14:49] even and I hear how Sam describes

[14:51] there's confusion about it. When I

[14:53] joined the budget committee, I think

[14:54] there's a tendency for people to be

[14:55] like, "Okay, well, I normally do this. I

[14:57] did this last year. I'll go off and do

[14:59] this." And if you don't have historical

[15:01] context, then you don't know they're

[15:02] going off and doing that. Can feel like

[15:04] you can't get involved and you know,

[15:06] that's probably one of the things that

[15:07] we want to avoid going forward. Yeah.

[15:09] Looks like a black box of sorts. Sam and

[15:11] I'm going back to

[15:12] >> her hand up.

[15:14] Susan had her hand up first.

[15:15] >> lips.

[15:17] Uh yeah, um that this all sounds great.

[15:20] And um I would just add that it seems

[15:22] like this is I mean it the opportunity

[15:24] here is also to look at that timeline

[15:26] and say, "Ooh, where are the points

[15:29] where we could actually even possibly um

[15:33] make some of those meetings

[15:34] forward-facing. Um, sort of adjust the

[15:37] way the um the conversation happens at,

[15:40] you know, one or two junctures where

[15:42] it's really it's it that that particular

[15:44] meeting is more publicized, maybe it's

[15:46] held in a in a bigger place, um and it's

[15:49] maybe facilitated in a way that actually

[15:51] asks for um questions and public, you

[15:54] know, guidance and things like that.

[15:56] Maybe I don't know if that happens in,

[15:58] you know, one in September and one in

[15:59] January or only one in January, but

[16:01] something where it's not only the people

[16:04] who are keeping their eye on on what's

[16:06] going on in the budget committee, but

[16:08] actually everybody gets invited in for,

[16:10] you know, for one moment. If if you feel

[16:13] like that would um it to me it that

[16:15] would be one possibility that might

[16:17] emerge when we um ask for lessons

[16:20] learned is, "Oh, we could use some of

[16:21] that."

[16:23] Maybe not, too, but

[16:27] Um

[16:28] comment You got a minute? Bill here.

[16:30] >> Yes, please.

[16:32] Yeah, I uh my comment is in line with uh

[16:35] Susan in the fact that you need to

[16:38] possibly because of everybody's jumping

[16:41] at the end when it's all finished, the

[16:43] public is

[16:46] jumping individually and making life

[16:48] miserable for everybody because you

[16:50] can't just change one item

[16:52] at the end.

[16:54] Consider possibly like

[16:57] Susan said, was to add a space for

[17:00] before it's getting really developed and

[17:02] solidified to

[17:05] let [clears throat] the public, if they

[17:06] want to, see what happens because I just

[17:09] don't think many understand that many of

[17:11] these sites or items are standards. You

[17:16] need it every year. It's not nothing

[17:18] It's not rocket science. You know, if

[17:21] you need 200 ton of stone, you need 40

[17:24] 10-ft lengths of

[17:25] this and that. All we're going to do is

[17:28] turn around and say the price has

[17:30] changed. We still need the same

[17:33] cuz I look at it as more in a quantity

[17:35] effect. That's more uh controllable than

[17:38] it is price because

[17:40] as it's say pavement. Pavement when I

[17:42] was paving was $50 a ton. Now it's $100

[17:46] a ton. We still need 2,000 tons.

[17:49] It doubled in price. We'll got to figure

[17:51] out uh

[17:53] a way of getting that number, not cut

[17:55] the quantity because that's what the

[17:57] state's been doing all this time is

[17:59] cutting the quantity. Now they're doing

[18:00] half as much as they've done

[18:03] in 15 years, 10 years really.

[18:07] So, I just put a thought to say

[18:10] uh find points in your development that

[18:13] adds

[18:14] openings for the public, you know, uh to allow them to stick their nose in

[18:21] it, see it, and comment if they want to,

[18:23] but they would see more constructively

[18:26] that at the end they can't help you, you

[18:29] can't help them trying to nickel dime

[18:32] something when

[18:33] we need it and the price went up. I'm

[18:35] sorry. You pay you get You get what you get and

[18:39] you got to pay for what it is and that's

[18:41] the way it is.

[18:45] So, in terms of date,

[18:48] we have one suggestion for June.

[18:51] I know our our regular June meeting is

[18:53] the 16th.

[18:55] Um

[18:57] I'm pretty sure the district gets out of

[18:59] school the 17th, so that might I don't

[19:01] know if that's a good time or a bad time

[19:03] for people. What do What do you

[19:05] What do we think?

[19:08] Yeah, I I think that the select board's

[19:10] going to be important to attend

[19:13] Normally our meetings are right uh

[19:15] before there, so hopefully that would

[19:16] work.

[19:18] Um

[19:19] but I think we probably have to devote

[19:20] the entire meeting to the topic. Agreed.

[19:22] And June it seems like a fine time for

[19:24] that.

[19:24] >> Yeah, cuz we can definitely take a

[19:25] little break then, right?

[19:27] Okay, so let's plan on the 16th unless

[19:29] we learn that there's a problem with

[19:31] that.

[19:37] Okay. Um

[19:39] next we've got capital spending

[19:42] uh 2028 through 2037.

[19:45] Um

[19:48] give me a shout if I'm if Mark's got

[19:50] comments we need to talk about, but

[19:51] first is

[19:54] estimated 3.15

[19:57] million.

[19:59] This is 2028 through 2037.

[20:01] Yeah, that's the whole 2028 through

[20:03] 2037. Is that

[20:05] what 3.5 million is? 3.15 500,000. Okay.

[20:09] Um

[20:10] All right, so Mark says well, he So all

[20:13] right, let's just read through these.

[20:14] Fire station 11k,

[20:16] uh fire vehicles 1.25 million. That's in

[20:19] 2030, 2033, 2034.

[20:23] Public works 1.24 million. That's 2028

[20:27] through 2030 and then 2032 and then 2032

[20:30] through 2037.

[20:33] And paving 650k,

[20:36] we contribute 20% or 130k.

[20:40] So Mark is suggesting that we

[20:43] continue to separately fund the paving

[20:45] fund versus other

[20:48] um

[20:48] improvements and that approximately

[20:52] 3 million is estimated over the next

[20:55] decade as we saw.

[21:00] He's wondering about funding a third of

[21:01] it. Is that what I'm reading?

[21:03] So increasing the asset equipment

[21:05] contribution from 50 to 100 K,

[21:08] increasing the paving fund contribution

[21:09] from 30 to 50.

[21:13] Uh, but we won't have enough for our 20%

[21:16] share of Shady Rail in 2028. Yeah.

[21:19] Cuz the price tag's too high.

[21:22] And then,

[21:23] you know, restoring the town building

[21:25] fund.

[21:28] And that's a 90,000 increase for the

[21:31] capital fund or 4% budget increase.

[21:34] And so,

[21:36] I mean, one My my take personally is

[21:39] that

[21:40] I think we should be funding more

[21:42] capital improvements, but I also think

[21:44] we need to hear from the from the town

[21:46] to make sure that that's in line because

[21:48] I know a 4% budget increase is not Yeah.

[21:50] Nothing to laugh at, especially with

[21:52] that's before any of the yearly

[21:54] increases we'll see.

[21:57] Any thoughts, comments?

[22:05] I just wanted to defer to see if you

[22:06] have comments, Anne. Um,

[22:08] I mean, I I do think it's important to

[22:10] fund them. You know, I don't

[22:14] It sounds like the goal of the capital

[22:16] spending is to not pay for it in full,

[22:20] right? To have a percentage down.

[22:24] That's the understanding, right? Um, The

[22:27] way I look at it is the ability to

[22:30] stabilize our tax rate in terms of not

[22:33] having one year where we have to buy a

[22:34] fire truck. Right. It shoots our tax

[22:36] rate up, and then other years it goes

[22:38] down. So, we we just have are able to be

[22:40] more stable is that is how I think of

[22:42] it, which means we have to put money

[22:43] into those funds so that they have money

[22:46] to do that. Um,

[22:48] and yeah, I mean, I think it to me it's

[22:50] very much a

[22:52] town discussion, and this is one area

[22:54] where it'd be great to get more feedback

[22:55] is like, what do you think?

[22:57] >> accurate? Are these accurate numbers as

[23:00] of like right now for these costs? cuz I

[23:02] know everything obviously goes up. Are

[23:05] these like accurate figures for what

[23:07] these could be cuz I know

[23:09] we've talked about that a little bit how

[23:11] prices obviously go up year to year and

[23:13] I don't know the last time we've gotten

[23:16] accurate

[23:18] like replacement cost of some of this

[23:19] stuff. So I think that might make it a little higher number.

[23:25] I think the 28 and the 30 have been

[23:28] updated but I I don't think that 20 and

[23:30] you know the later years have. Like we I

[23:33] mean those just get set at whatever we

[23:34] set the most recent year we updated but

[23:37] obviously those will go up by you know 5

[23:39] 10% depending how far out they are.

[23:42] The other thing is that I'm willing to

[23:44] bet any amount of money that over the

[23:46] next 9 years the fire station is going

[23:48] to take more than 11k.

[23:51] >> [laughter]

[23:52] >> But I think I think it's important I

[23:53] think we've brought up two important

[23:54] points. One is like there's the actual

[23:56] numbers like what do we expect stuff

[23:58] will cost the other is

[24:01] it is the town aligned on how much of

[24:04] whatever this is we should be refunding.

[24:06] Yeah and and I think even

[24:09] we should get alignment on is it

[24:11] important for people to have stable tax

[24:13] bills. Cuz cuz I truly think that's I think why we do this whole

[24:17] process is that no one wants to be

[24:18] surprised at the end of the year that

[24:21] you know even if your tax bill is

[24:22] suddenly lower like that's still not

[24:23] great but you want to just be able to

[24:25] plan on at least

[24:29] uh

[24:30] But I I think I think those are the sort

[24:31] of the questions. I think two topics

[24:33] there. One is just the numbers are the

[24:35] numbers good and what's the mix. The

[24:37] other is

[24:38] how how does the town think we should be

[24:40] handling these expenses?

[24:42] Oh.

[24:43] I I can take an action item to just like

[24:45] survey what other towns do and see if

[24:47] there's any literature on like what best

[24:49] practices are but that's that'll just be

[24:50] recommendations sort of Yeah.

[24:54] Would we want to do some type of survey

[24:57] like with our people in this town to see

[24:59] what they want, like what You know what

[25:01] I mean? To get their feedback.

[25:04] I mean, this is like the most amount of

[25:05] people we've gotten in a budget meeting,

[25:07] but like cuz we don't really get a lot

[25:08] of people here, but to get because it I

[25:12] think it does make sense to be funding

[25:15] these things, but I'm one person. Like

[25:17] you said, I think it's important to get

[25:20] some feedback from people.

[25:21] >> Yeah, my take is that that's sort of

[25:23] like part of the

[25:25] process that I think hopefully we come

[25:28] out with that we say there's key points

[25:30] in our budget process every year when we

[25:32] reach out. And like one might be before

[25:34] we even [clears throat] start where

[25:35] we're saying, "Hey, we're getting

[25:36] started in the budget process.

[25:38] Are there priorities you have? Or like

[25:39] what what are the questions that we

[25:41] Yeah, so I mean, I guess sure, I think

[25:44] we should survey the town. Um

[25:46] I think it would be great to like be

[25:48] really intentional about when we do

[25:50] those surveys cuz it might be more than

[25:51] one as we keep try to keep some

[25:54] engagement for our budget process.

[25:56] Also, I mean, in terms of these numbers

[25:58] being accurate, my memory is that sort

[26:00] of one of the early things we do every

[26:02] year with capital planning is try to

[26:04] read up on our numbers. And that's

[26:05] another thing we should write into the

[26:06] process is like this is like your first

[26:08] step is like you know,

[26:10] is it garbage in, garbage out? Or do we

[26:12] actually can we rely on what we've got?

[26:13] Is it investable? But even I think when

[26:15] we do those updates, I I think where it

[26:17] gets tricky is it's like you have to

[26:19] really have a someone who know it who

[26:21] understands sort of that particular

[26:22] thing. Yes, how do you accurately price

[26:25] it? And what is a reasonable estimate? I

[26:26] think that's one of the things we've

[26:27] seen in the past is that we kind of we

[26:30] ask someone who bought the thing 5 years

[26:32] ago, but then the market around that

[26:34] thing has changed in the past 5 years.

[26:37] But you know, something that makes me

[26:37] think of is like at my work when we're

[26:40] trying to

[26:41] pay people a fair amount, we you know,

[26:43] we can't we can't do lots of research on

[26:46] every position every year cuz we don't

[26:48] have capacity. But we're trying to pick

[26:50] like at least one position every year

[26:52] and do some more in-depth like market

[26:54] research and like what are people paid

[26:55] for that? And maybe like that becomes

[26:57] part of our process is that we're like

[26:59] doing it you know, we might pick the

[27:01] fire truck coming up and it's like

[27:02] someone says, all right, what do fire

[27:04] trucks cost? And we do some research and

[27:05] so we at least are always improving the

[27:08] estimates. I don't know.

[27:10] The other thing I wanted to say around

[27:12] like I think we we should a survey makes

[27:15] sense in getting lots of input on that.

[27:17] I almost think it's important to think

[27:19] about something more formal of like you

[27:22] know, we're going to target funding the

[27:24] expected capital expenditures for

[27:26] whatever time frame from a a percent

[27:28] range

[27:29] and making that as official or like

[27:31] potentially even special article or as

[27:33] possible because

[27:35] it otherwise we can do all of this work,

[27:37] but the next time there's a changeover

[27:40] in the select board or something else

[27:41] happens

[27:43] or we just have a 15% price increase and

[27:45] we want to get that number down so that

[27:47] the budget passes. We cut that and that

[27:49] seems like that's been our plan. So I'm

[27:51] not suggesting we have to commit to any

[27:52] of that right now, but I I think

[27:55] if we say we're going to fund whatever

[27:57] that percentage is,

[27:58] I would recommend you know, I would kind

[28:00] of encourage everyone to say, well, it's

[28:01] we should put out to a vote that there's

[28:03] some range or something that's

[28:04] approximately like that so that we

[28:05] actually follow through on it cuz these budget sessions and as we've kind

[28:09] of seen,

[28:10] there's lots of you know, we'll pull

[28:12] from this, we'll pull that and and with

[28:14] the capital improvement plan I think one

[28:16] of the my my sense is one of the reasons

[28:18] there is a capital improvement plan is

[28:20] that these costs aren't negotiable. Like

[28:22] these things are going to be costs that

[28:24] we have to incur at some point. If we're

[28:26] not funding them, that that introduces a

[28:28] bunch of risk, especially if we have a

[28:30] flood that we have to bond. And we now

[28:32] no longer can go out to bond, right?

[28:34] Like it's great that FEMA's reimbursing

[28:35] us for these past few years, but if that

[28:38] hadn't have happened, now all of the

[28:40] sudden like we have no way to go out and

[28:41] do these expenses in the next five

[28:43] years.

[28:46] I really like the idea of having some

[28:47] metric that we're like that's the target

[28:49] for what we're putting in capital

[28:51] reserves. I agree like if especially if

[28:53] we get the town to vote on it or some

[28:55] way that we get input so we feel like

[28:57] that's an agreed upon thing and then

[28:58] yeah, that becomes a stable goal that

[29:01] and and to your point even if it's just

[29:02] guidance then we can at least point out

[29:04] when we're not meeting the guidance.

[29:06] Yeah, and it and it just that then

[29:07] survives any of us or the select board

[29:09] as there's change over it leads to more

[29:11] stability for the town.

[29:13] Is there a way of doing it like a

[29:15] special article format? Like if we

[29:18] wanted to

[29:20] Yeah, it might be it might be more

[29:21] complicated than anyone wants to do but

[29:22] it's totally doable. You you can amend

[29:24] your town charter and you know, it goes

[29:26] there's a legal process for it but if

[29:27] the town votes they want to introduce

[29:29] this policy.

[29:31] And and the Yeah, citizens can also just

[29:33] do like advisory things too, right? Like

[29:35] it's much simpler to have like a

[29:37] non-binding advisory thing. So we could

[29:39] talk in a lot more detail at some point

[29:40] about how exactly we want to get that.

[29:43] Um, I just realized I didn't let's read

[29:47] out the not included things here. So

[29:49] we've got town hall short-term repairs,

[29:51] town hall town new town garage, new town

[29:54] offices. None of those are included and Mark's thinking about doing like a

[30:00] 10-year presentation where we we really

[30:03] are looking at this capital planning

[30:05] from like a 10-year perspective and like

[30:07] the thinking is like all the stuff

[30:08] that's coming up. Like certainly makes

[30:10] sense to me. And I think we discussed a

[30:12] previous meeting that we we had we got

[30:14] to get numbers from

[30:15] I can't remember what it was but the the

[30:17] one the facilities planning committee is

[30:19] currently going on fifth I think.

[30:21] Um

[30:23] cuz the the offices we know we're going

[30:24] to have to spend money on but this

[30:26] building we we need to have where we're

[30:28] committing to spending money on so that

[30:29] it just meets standards that are in

[30:30] place for people to be here.

[30:32] Yeah, I mean I think Mark's other

[30:34] comments doing it the presentation

[30:36] earlier than October and getting

[30:38] attendees, you know, people who

[30:40] mentioned wanting to come before Dexter

[30:42] Lafavre and Kevin Davis. Like we we need

[30:44] to

[30:45] Yeah, pull them in. To me again, that's

[30:47] good process discussion at our next

[30:48] meeting, but like

[30:50] we should plan on like how do we like

[30:52] really get to people? And like you know,

[30:54] we can individually reach out to people

[30:55] who've expressed interest, but we can do

[30:58] like

[30:59] the place where I always get stuck is

[31:02] it's easy to put a post on Front Porch

[31:03] Forum, sure. Some subset of the town

[31:06] sees that. But like what are the next

[31:08] things that we can do to really try to

[31:11] get it in front of people, so people who

[31:13] have interest can attend.

[31:15] Um yeah, and hopefully I think that's in

[31:17] line with what Susan's talking about

[31:18] doing, too. So hopefully there's some

[31:20] more

[31:21] ideas there.

[31:24] All right. Um

[31:26] other thoughts on capital spending?

[31:30] I mean, I guess the last thing here is

[31:31] just the capital

[31:33] plan meeting presentation.

[31:35] I mean, my thinking is that that's after

[31:37] our June meeting, and that we like we're

[31:39] probably having a June meeting, and then

[31:41] we're going to need to have a meeting

[31:42] after June to sort of process what

[31:45] happened to the June meeting, and maybe

[31:46] that's where we'll do this capital

[31:47] planning meeting. We plan the

[31:49] presentation. Okay, does that make

[31:51] sense?

[31:51] >> Yeah.

[31:52] So maybe we're not taking 2 months off

[31:54] this year. That's

[32:07] Cool.

[32:08] Um

[32:10] anything else?

[32:17] Question for you.

[32:19] Yeah.

[32:20] How much do you consider the people or

[32:24] the quantities of people that use Front

[32:26] Porch Forum as as you suggested to ask a

[32:32] priority possibly of projects or list

[32:38] their projects individually that the

[32:40] people individuals want and then you can

[32:43] farm that out

[32:45] to evaluate by either quantity of people

[32:49] selecting certain ones and then turn

[32:51] around and make your your priority list

[32:55] off that and then get the

[32:57] consensus of the whole town. That sounds

[33:00] pretty good or you nay or nay it and

[33:02] then uh

[33:04] start up that way. Does that make sense?

[33:07] I mean I definitely think some sort of

[33:08] survey asking for priorities from people

[33:12] makes some sense, you know, and I think

[33:15] we've had ways where you can have a

[33:16] survey that's available both on Front

[33:18] Porch Forum and you can have it and you

[33:20] can do a tiny URL that you post up at

[33:22] the school and other places and I I

[33:24] think the things that we probably don't

[33:26] have capacity for is like, you know,

[33:28] back in the day we used to go

[33:29] door-to-door or we talk about paying for

[33:30] mailings to houses and that's expensive

[33:33] and time-consuming. So I guess that to

[33:35] me is the question is like how do we get

[33:37] to those people who aren't catching the

[33:39] Front Porch Forum things or the public

[33:41] meeting notices. I mean, the thing that

[33:43] always gets me about the public meeting

[33:44] notices is the ones that are mostly used

[33:46] are

[33:47] right here and right there and that's

[33:50] like one side of town and like all the

[33:52] rest of us on the rest of town

[33:54] >> We sometimes going to see those public

[33:56] notices. Sometimes they do run the guy.

[33:57] They they do sometimes do run the guy

[33:58] but even then like you're not the door's

[34:01] locked around you. Like it's hard to

[34:02] even get in. I don't even know where the

[34:03] poster is there.

[34:04] It's it's funny because depending on

[34:07] what it is you have to warn it in so

[34:09] many places and there's so many so many

[34:11] stipulations. We're looking at this now

[34:13] for like list or stuff actually.

[34:15] >> Right. And and you do and it makes it

[34:17] hard when you have small towns that

[34:19] don't have a lot of billboards, right?

[34:21] And I think they're looking at that

[34:24] where I'm trying to remember because I

[34:26] think I talked to VLCT last year to see

[34:28] if we could put it at like Shaw's in

[34:31] Waterbury if that would like count as

[34:33] one of our spots. I don't remember what

[34:35] they said honestly. It was like a year

[34:36] ago.

[34:37] Um but it's true. Like we don't have a

[34:39] lot of places in town to be able to like

[34:42] stick things to. Well, I'm I'm just

[34:44] thinking even instead of at Romney, put

[34:47] it right next to the bandstand's

[34:49] billboard there or even on the the

[34:51] little fire department building there.

[34:52] Like if it was out in the open,

[34:55] people, especially if there was room for

[34:57] other people to put other stuff on,

[34:58] maybe it would actually get used. I

[35:00] don't know.

[35:02] I I I recognize that the issue I I don't

[35:04] feel I feel like it's not a budget

[35:06] committee specific issue. Agreed. Not at

[35:08] all. But I think that you know, we've

[35:11] got feedback from various people. Yeah,

[35:13] I think the select board has echoed they

[35:14] want to figure out how to engage people

[35:16] more. So I think we should, you know, look to

[35:19] that to be able to be able to

[35:21] get some process. There's There's a

[35:23] bunch of things we can do. Even just

[35:24] having like

[35:25] newspaper drop boxes, you'd have to do

[35:28] printing costs of like a

[35:31] folding, but that's not super expensive

[35:33] and if people think it's important

[35:34] enough that this stuff gets shared out is successful. That's a lot

[35:37] better than French board front porch

[35:39] forum which has, you know, accessibility

[35:40] issues around just internet and other

[35:43] things. Right. But I I think it's

[35:44] important to

[35:46] we we're not going to be able to solve

[35:47] the the listing problem, but

[35:50] I I think we should reiterate to folks

[35:52] that if they want the town to feel like

[35:55] they

[35:56] uh are more informed and have the

[35:58] ability to comment early on,

[36:00] this is a gap we have to fill and it's

[36:02] probably going to take some amount of

[36:03] money.

[36:04] Yeah.

[36:05] Does it you know, could be less than a

[36:06] grand a year, but like it's probably

[36:08] going to take something.

[36:10] Yeah, absolutely.

[36:13] All right.

[36:15] Any Anything else from anyone before

[36:18] we adjourn?

[36:25] I have a motion to adjourn.

[36:27] I'll make a motion to end the meeting.

[36:29] Okay, second. All right. All in favor,

[36:32] aye.

[36:33] Meeting adjourned. Thanks for joining,

[36:34] Bill.

[36:35] Thank you. I just

[36:37] wanted to see what you guys are doing,

[36:39] what where you stand and everything cuz

[36:41] there's so many Well, I had people come

[36:44] up and said, "Oh, I want I would like to

[36:46] help you and we wanted a paper ballot or

[36:49] information." I said, "Well, I have to

[36:52] know more about what everybody does

[36:54] before I can say anything." And you

[36:57] know, they don't mind me sticking my

[36:58] nose in and at least seeing what you're

[37:00] doing, but uh

[37:03] I can pass it on to other people that

[37:05] asked me what what's happening. And uh

[37:09] you know, I'm retired. I'm I've

[37:11] myself here now. Everybody's gone. I can

[37:13] take care and

[37:15] do a little extra

[37:17] to help and spread the word. We can

[37:19] maybe find different things

[37:22] it could cuz we're spread out so far

[37:24] around town. There's no central

[37:26] location. We got, you know, all four

[37:28] ends were covered. There's nothing in

[37:30] the middle. Exactly. There's all four

[37:32] ends. And it it's hard to get people and

[37:35] if you don't really know them and you're

[37:38] not in the system like kids in school

[37:40] and stuff like that and sports

[37:43] you're you're you're out there hanging

[37:45] in for dear life. There's nothing there

[37:47] for you.

[37:48] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't think I'm

[37:50] alone in saying it's always exciting to

[37:52] have people come and join.

[37:54] How we want to encourage like to me

[37:56] anyone who shows up like it's okay to

[37:58] stop and ask basic questions because we

[38:01] want to bring everyone up to speed. Like

[38:02] that's a part of what we're here for.

[38:03] It's much better for it to happen now

[38:08] I think that's the big point Sarah and

[38:11] myself talked about once is that that we

[38:13] need to inform people beforehand because

[38:16] you can't change it when everybody's

[38:19] gone through the process and you're

[38:20] voting a final number,

[38:23] 3 million, 4 million, and you want to

[38:25] knock out 10 cents. I'm sorry, it

[38:27] doesn't work. You ain't got a chance in

[38:29] Hades to do it.

[38:30] Hopefully 3 million and 4 million are

[38:32] still a few years out. Yeah.

[38:34] I I just think of it like a web though.

[38:36] You you

[38:37] you're all right.

[38:38] >> [laughter]

[38:38] >> Yeah, we'll have to use a web analogy.

[38:40] You know, you you tweak any part of that

[38:41] web and and everything else has to

[38:43] shift. So That's right, and it doesn't

[38:45] work. I mean, I've budgeted projects and

[38:49] a lot of stuff for in for real TLF,

[38:51] local transportation, for sidewalks and

[38:54] bridges and stuff that you can't just

[38:56] take one item out. You need them. And

[38:59] until you're done, that's the other half

[39:02] of it is forgetting an item or miss

[39:06] quantity differences that throw

[39:10] everything right out of kilter real

[39:12] quick.

[39:15] All right. We hope we hope to see We

[39:17] hope to keep seeing you, Bill. Yeah,

[39:18] keep joining, please.

[39:21] Take care.

[39:22] Have a good evening, gentlemen. You too.

[39:28] » [music]

Middlesex Budget Committee - May 19, 2026 [MBC]

Transcript